Peggy Is In Love With Don

I was reading a previous post about why Don fought for Peggy and not for Betty. I kept wondering why Peggy stayed at SC even after several offers from other companies. I then thought about Don and Peggy's first meeting when Peggy came on to Don and Don quickly told her that he was her boss and not her boyfriend. In almost every scene with Don, Peggy wears this look like a love sick teenager. The people in the office even thought they were having an affair. They share a very strange, yet close sort of intimacy and friendship of shared secrets and mutual respect. Peggy stayed with SC because she is mad about Don even from day one. That's why she seems bored with other men that she meets because none of them measure up to Don. I hope they don't have an affair in Season 4. I really want Don with Rachel. Don may even have some unrecognized feelings for Peggy other than respect. He says that he sees himself in Peggy and remember Don loves himself more than anything.

Henry Francis IS Don Draper!

My husband actually pointed this out to me after the finale, and I think he is exactly right.

Henry Francis is exactly the kind of guy Don Draper is, just minus the fake name and identity.

Think about it. He is the kind of man who will hit on a heavily pregnant woman carrying ANOTHER MAN'S child and have no compunction about doing this. Also, he doesn't KNOW Betty at all. Not a bit. He is merely doing the same things Don did with Suzanne (and all the rest) which is to tell her exactly what SHE WANTS to hear. He is an expert and he knows what she wants to hear.

She says, "He's been lying to me for years..." And Henry responds, "I wish I could take you to the movies..what's your favorite movie?"

This is just like Don asking Suzanne to come away with him and saying, "I'll clear my schedule...." and they are ON THEIR WAY when Don gets caught - FINALLY!!

See, but Henry Francis pulls out the BIG GUNS. He says the MAGIC WORDS to Betty (that EVERY woman wants to hear) "I want to MARRY you."

That's it - game over - Betty's a goner.

What makes Betty think Henry is such an upstanding guy. He's divorced. Does she even know WHY he is divorced? I'm sure it's not because he such a great guy, or he would still be married.

Henry Francis is just another Don Draper, except in the sleazy world of politics instead of advertising.

Christopeher Stanley - He Did It Again

The enigmatic actor Christopher Stanley managed yet again to reincarnate himself yet again and come to life in one of my favorite shows. For those of you who don't know his name, remember it. Playing the role of Henry Fancis, the phantom suitor of Mrs. Betty Draper, Stanley has appeared in many of television's most decorated shows and has not only held his own, but at times, has outshined even his better known co-stars. Playing a bigoted police officer on NYPD blue, Stanley managed to humanize a complex and conflicted character, a would be hero, fallen victim to his own prejudice. His arc on the show took place during its most award winning era and led to another Bochco appearance on the less successful but equally powerful Brooklyn South where he played another tragic figure undone by homophobia and rage. In one unforgettable scene, Stanley's character came absolutely unhinged while the entire cast stood spellbound; watching in absolute awe as he raged against his partner who turned him in for wrongs he had committed, and then ultimately broke down into tears. It was as if even the regulars understood they were seeing something extraordinary and didn't even have to act. Now Stanley has appeared as a loaded spring on Mad Men and I cannot wait to see what the producers and writers have in store for his character. Anyone familiar with this actors work would know that he is capable not only of the tenderness and sensitivity he has shown in the role of Henry, but also of explosive outbursts of emotion. Like all great actors he has the ability to walk the fine line between life and art. I have no doubt that there are big plans for his character so look out Mad men fans, there are bound to be fireworks when Don Draper inevitably confronts this unpredictable talent inhabiting a yet to be fully defined character. I for one cannot wait!

Two Adams

I have been puzzled and confused by Adam's timeline. In Season 1 we see a flashback of an eight year old Adam waiting with Abigail and Uncle Mac for the arrival of Dick's body post Korea. When Adam meets Don at the coffee shop, a point is made of his telling Don that he was only eight years old but he knew he spotted Dick on the train. However, we have been repeatedly shown a photo of what appears to also be an eight year old boy with a young man standing beside him. Every time we are shown this photo, it is turned over and we see that it is inscribed "Dick and Adam 1944." This absolutely cannot be a mistake. Therefore, the only conclusion I can come to is that there were two Adams. Adam #1 was eight in 1944, and Adam #2 was eight in the early 50s.

I have always felt that there was a lot more to Dick Whitman's past than switching identities. Don reacted much too strongly to being found out for it to just have been an identity switch.

Of course, I have an idea as to who Adam #2 is, but for now I will keep that to myself and enjoy the opportunity to once again review Season 1. I need to check out a fact or two.

Roger's daughter

Was there a change in the actress who played Roger's recently married daughter?

Homewrecking Henry?

HOmewrecking Henry? We report, you decide.

Armchair Astrologers: Your suggested Sun Signs per each major character?

I know there are some astrologers or students of astrology out there in cyber-land. Do you have hunches as to the Sun-Signs of each of the main MAD MEN characters? It's just for fun..... but how close can you come?

Don: Definitely a Scorpio/Plutonic type. Sex, secrets, handsomeness, serious passion, a blunt discursive habit. All point to Scorpio for me.

Betty: I'm thinking a Libra type. Natural beauty, poise and a certain indolence suggest Libra to me.

Joan: Virgo.

Roger: Leo

Bert: Aquarius.

Sally: Taurus

Sal: Gemini.

Peggy; Cancer

Pete: Capricorn

Kinsey: Virgo

Ken: Aries

Lane Pryce: Capricorn.

Connie: Scorpio.

St. John: Sagittarius

Trudy: Pisces

Greg: Leo

Carla: Capricorn

Bobby: Pisces

Duck: Leo

Henry: Gemini

Kurt: Aquarius

Miss Farrell: Aries

************************************

What say you? Am I onto something? Way off the mark?

What about the children?

Betty is on a plane to Reno with the baby to wait out a 6 week quickie divorce. Don is living at a hotel? The two older children are left at home with the nanny/housekeeper ? Doesn't the housekeeper have her own life? Isn't it Christmas time? Shouldn't Betty have taken the two older kids with her? Maybe the teacher is available to help out?

Unresolved storylines

Before season 4 (which I hope takes place in '64 not '66 like some people have speculated) moves forward does anyone recall any good storylines that were abandoned in earlier episodes? How about directions characters were headed that you liked that were suddenly shafted? MY BIGGEST QUESTION would be Pete and Trudy's trouble over having kids. THAT WAS GREAT! Where did it go? Also, I would like to add Peggy and the father from the church. These two NEED to be revisited before The Beatles make their debut on Ed Sullivan. Anyone?

There's Something About Henry

The guy is totally nutz.You would think that a man his age would be smart enough to know what he's doing with women and know that one piece of ass is really not too different from another and of course when you marry them they change and it all becomes one big bore or aggravation.And that's not even considering any loss of assets by divorcing the former wife or the expense of taking care of a prima donna like Betty and her 3 kids.He should have just kept her on the side until he got bored with her. Much simpler.

Leonard Cohen Influence in Season 3

I just read an article featuring Abigail Spencer, who plays Suzanne. She shares that Matt Weiner based her character on the Leonard Cohen song of the same name. Check out the lyrics at the URL below. They paint a familiar picture and might offer some clarification to those who've questioned what could possibly have attracted Don to Miss F.

http://leonardcohenfiles.com/album1.html#0

Roger Sterling cracks me up

Hey Maddicts, Who else got a kick out of Roger's lines this week ?
1) When he says to Lane: We're old friends "we've got tea".
2) Saying "Bye Trudy" in the apartment knowing that she was listening at the door.
3) When he told Bert Cooper that Don was doing better at wooing him into the new fold.
I'm sure I'm forgetting some. Please post more .

He has the funniest lines on the show

Did You Cheer When Joan Arrived to Save the Day

I did! Even knowing that's who Roget called and that she'd be appearing, I still cheered. It was like the cavalry had arrived, or a superhero. Joan to save the day and tell them where everything is so they can steal it ;-D

henry francis seems a lot creepier now

while i have mixed feelings about e13, there's something that i noticed about henry francis last night. all of a sudden he seems a lot more creepy. maybe it's his double involvement with the whole divorce thing. maybe it's that he and betty haven't really consummated their relationship. they've barely spoken 100 words between them. what's his angle?
it doesn't seem to be love.

if don had any guts at all he'd fight to keep his kids.

Don has Borderline Personality Disorder

Throughout this season it has become apparent to me that Don has Borderline Personality Disorder. The key things that "sealed it" for me are:
- inability to form true intimacy with someone; relationships are idealized (think Rachel Menken)
- overwhelming fear of abandonment, usually stemming from childhood trauma (only after she kicked him out did Don admit to treating Betty badly and without respect)
- risky, impulsive behavior with sex and alcohol (and even drugs in one episode)
- projection of their bad behaviors onto other people (accusing Betty of destroying their family and calling HER a whore)
- dissociation and not remembering events, a la "This never happened."

Borderlines always blame someone else for their behavior. They push people away to avoid that person rejecting them first. Last season, when Betty first confronted Don about having an affair with Bobbie Barrett, he kept trying to change the subject and put the blame back on her. She didn't let him. Don has always done what he wanted without considering its impact on others. Borderlines' anger is usually in direct proportion to their sense of shame. Don's outbursts usually followed being called onto the carpet for things.

The official DSM description is:
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, as well as marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:[18]
1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5
5. Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.
6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. Chronic feelings of emptiness
8. Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

pete campbell - you revolutionary dawg!

just wanted to say how much i enjoyed watching the crew tear up SC and leaving it in "ruins". the icing on the cake was pete campbell walking out with his infamous gun propped up on his shoulder like a soldier!!! I just want to shout i love you Pete Campbell and i don't care who knows it! VK you are bomb diggity fresh!

Why is this so distracting to me?

I have noticed recently that three actresses share/copy the same "character mannerisms," specifically Peggy, Betty and Sally. They all seem to share that blank, deer-in-the-headlights look and a hesitant, haughty, breathless speech pattern. Peggy started it and then it seemed Betty's character has mirrored Peggy's and Sally is pulling up the rear. Has anyone else noticed this?

Pryce

Who does it stand for in the new agency Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce? The Englishman ? I thought his name was Lane.

Would Don Draper still like the industry?

Hello--I wrote a series of articles about the show for the finale yesterday in here is the last one (with a poll for fans). Hope you like it. Thanks :)

http://www.examiner.com/x-13521-SF-Workplace-Communication-Examiner~y2009m11d9-Mad-Men-and-advertising-today-Would-Don-Draper-still-like-the-industry

Don Draper: The Ironic Man

Don's preposterous notions just kill me (I posted this on another thread but figured I'd throw it out there for some thoughts).

1.) Don is still suggesting that Betty see a psychaitrist.....excuse me?? He's the one with the problems too numerous to mention. She sought therapy because of HIM, yet he still doesn't get it. His lousy background needs to be addressed.

2.) Don calling Betty a "whore". Oh...OK....so all his whoring around doesn't count. Again, Don needs the shrink.

3.) He accuses Betty of "building a life raft" to get out of their marriage...referring to his discovery of Henry Francis. Um, wasn't that what Don did in Korea? Didn't he adopt the identity of another soldier to escape and grab a new life?

4.)Don tells Roger that he never saw himself working in a (classy) place like Sterling Cooper. No kidding! That's because he's lucky to have gotten this far riding on the back of a stolen identity and he knows it.....same reason he isn't too too mad at Betty for jumping ship (he lied his way into her life in the first place, the schmuck)

5.) Don didn't like Conrad Hilton "playing" with him?? Yet Don fails to see how he plays with the lives of others, especially Betty's....yet she's supposed to suck it up like nothing ever happened. Now she's a "Mainline Brat" for speaking up against the lies.

"Westchester Syndrome" and Betty Draper

(Posted this to the open thread for Epi 13 as well)

I've never posted this, but from the first season it's bothered me immensely to read comments criticizing Betty for being cold and bitchy and a bad mother and wife. While she's far from perfect, I saw her from the beginning as the subject matter of "The Feminine Mystique," women of her era who woke up and discovered that the beautiful house and the children and the material goods they had been taught to define as happiness still left some hole in their lives, esp. if they had previously had some other source of personal satisfaction, like Betty's modeling career.

Betty did not marry Don for a fur coat. He swept her off her feet, with his charm and his handsome face and his awe of her. He pitched himself to her, and she bought it. Everything unraveled over time, but it wasn't until this season that she discovered the extent to which that pitch had been a complete falsehood. How can you love someone when you have no idea who he is? How could Don really love Betty, when he never allowed himself to know who she really was? She was up on a pedestal, the Madonna complete with babe in arms. When he found out about Henry, you could almost hear the gears grinding with that paradigm shift, and she became the Whore.

I do think that during the next season, Don will try to reconcile his new image of Betty, see that she's neither Madonna nor Whore, and try to let her see a little more of Don/Dick, the genuine person.

There's a "Westchester Syndrome" that people talk about today, in which women who had successful careers now find themselves stuck in the suburbs. Their husbands commute to the city, leaving before the children wake up in the morning and returning after they are asleep, so all the child-rearing is completely left to the moms. The stereotype goes: these women wait every evening till 5:00, then open a bottle of wine that they finish sometime after the kids are asleep but long before hubby gets home. What Betty and the women of their era experienced was far more difficult.

Where is Sal?

I was totally disappointed the season ended without him

conrad hilton

who plays conrad Hilton?

Wardrobe and it's meanings

We all love re-watching and catching new things the day and week after, especially the day before the finale now. I had posted in my own little open thread original post about wardrobe but I think there's something else.

I had said that Pete and Trudy looked surprisingly like Kurt and Smitty in the end where Mr. Company is now feeling like Mr. Rebel. I think that was MM attention to detail.

I also mentioned Jane wearing black to the wedding as I thought women weren't supposed to do. But that black to a wedding thing was debatable on the thread and that's ok. The point was about the MM attention to detail in putting Jane in black, whatever any of us think.

Now check this out. The finale last season opened with Betty in the Dr's office sitting on the table in a gray dress, not exactly thrilled. It was a scene that defined her future in a way, in a position to say yes or no, leave or stay if you will, regarding the obvious situation of hers.

Here, now, when she comes home to Don at the end of this episode and tells him she doesn't love him, I swear she's wearing the same dress. And if it's not, it's way too close to similar to be a coincidence. I think it's not an accident. And it's the same situation, she has a moment of leave or stay, a moment of decision-making as the end of last year.

Kind of like Pete and the rifle. Last season at a defining moment for Pete we saw him with the rifle by himself after Peggy's news. In the first cut this past episode we see Pete on the couch (in the fetal position before he's about to "grow out" of SC but that's beside the point and should be a whole new topic for another thread), and the rifle as a reminder in the background, of Pete who is about to again have a defining moment.

A dress and a rifle both making a reappearance at defining moments. Attention to detail. How do people not love this show???

Quick Poll - Did Dick Do It?

Those who have peeked at imdb know the young Dick Whitman will return in the season finale. The assumption is that the, ahem, sudden passing of Dick's father will be depicted. Here's the Poll:

Did Dick:
a: directly contribute to Archie's death
b. indirectly or inadvertently contribute to it
c. had nothing to do with it.

The answer will be shown Sunday night. Maybe.

Takes one to know one, and Don isn't stupid

Don knows Betty too well. He knows she needs attention, needs a man, and for her to tell him she doesn't love him any more must make him wonder. He knows the only thing that would make him not love her any more would be someone who could take her place. He knows this because he could imagine that with Miss Teacher. She's the only one who Don "played house" with.The only one who he actually slept with. He knows Betty has someone she wants to replace him with. Does Don have enough self esteem left, after Betty's discovery of who Don really is,to fight, to change her mind,to care? Or has it left him with enough spite and venom to be mean or cruel, determined find out what or who is behind Betty's change of heart.

Questionable taste?

The lead-ups to Episode 12 mentioned "Peggy's taste in men proves questionable." But now that we've seen the episode, I fail to see how the episode depicted this. Duck didn't say or do anything that would make him seem bad or would have Peggy second-guessing her relationship with him, and aside from flighty roommate's comment on his aftershave, nobody else is questioning Peggy's taste. Perhaps the preview blurb is foreshadowing something that will happen later?

Trudy's New Perspective

I found the scenes with Trudy and Pete, hooked on the news, pretty fascinating. I'm curious about what other people thought. Here's what I saw:

It starts with Pete and Trudy falling into their usual pattern. Whenever Pete gets bad news, this is what happens (more or less):
(1) Pete throws a mini-temper tantrum in front of Trudy where he rants (justly or not) about how unfair it all is that he's not appreciated or promoted.
(2) Trudy checks to make sure he didn't commit a serious faux pas (like throw this same tantrum in front of his bosses). Assured that Pete didn't shoot himself in the foot, Trudy then lets him kevetch while saying something akin to "Poor baby! Those mean, nasty people don't know how lucky they are to have you!"
(3) Pete then makes some histrionic statement about quitting or doing something equally dramatic, and Trudy, while remaining totally on his side and sympathetic, talks him out of it. Return to status quo.

This time, however, it didn't go like that, did it? It went off track when Pete threw in comments (true or not) that made the people at work seem disrespectful of JFK's assassination. From that point on, Trudy's perspective on Pete's situation changes. The longer they watch the news together, the more it changes.

By the end, instead of trying to talk him out of doing what he wildly proposes to do, she's urging him to do it, even adding in modifications ("take your clients with you...").

What I'm curious about is (1) why do you think Trudy broke out of their usual pattern and became a revolutionary (as it were) in favor of Pete fighting the establishment rather than giving it another college try? Is this another case of JFK's assassination "waking" someone up? (2) Pete talks a good game, but we know he's not an alpha male however much he may want to be. He'd rather imagine doing radical things then do them (even in season 1 he didn't really want to go through with is threat to expose Don--Don forced the issue). Do you think, at the end when Trudy is urging him to leave that he's regretting what he said? I get the feeling that he expected the pattern to go as usual and is taken by surprise by Trudy.

Stolen Glances - Betty and Henry

Betty and Henry? What is the attraction? As sneaky and whoremongering as Don is ( one referred to lovingly as a Ladies Man) it truly angered me when Henry told Betty he would marry her. (I assume that he was assuring her in 1963 speak of a safety net for a sexual affair) . What does she see in this guy? He's smooth and has a degree of power and position but he is twice her age and has a daughter that appears to be Betty's age. It's obvious she has had it with Don Draper. I would like to think there is something still there. I don't think it has as much to do with the affairs that Betty suspects. Perhaps it has more to do with the small lies (not that hiding your true identity is a small lie) that made Don's kiss meaningless. It was Betty's generic moment. In Italy she felt sexy and modern and I truly thought the fire was back for them but in the morning it was back to good old Bets -Here Bets it's a charm for your charm bracelet, Mother of my kids- instead of here is string of pearls and while we're here I want to kiss you at the coliseum. Betty has married well and lives in West Chester and wants for nothing but spends her days watching TV while Don unpredictably comes and goes. There is seemingly no interest at all in what is meaningful to Betty or a complete lack of comprehension on Don's part that his wife could require anything more than the home he has provided for her. She is a trophy and he (although I think he truly will be destroyed when she leaves) he won't get it until it is too late. It could be that Henry asks her about her and truly seems interested. I think she so craves being a considered human being that any man that gives her that becomes attractive (as women don't think, in terms of what attracts them, as men do). As an aside there are like 20 posts on here about trolls and bickering and alternative posting sites and blah blah blah. It's tedious to scroll through to get to posts about the show.

Henry Francis

Wow ...who is this guy? I bet he is on the cover of the next GQ mag! I hope to see more of him!!!

What would Don Do???

Seems like a good number of people think that Don would try to leave Betty penniless and prehaps even take the kids if she asks for a divorce. I don't. I am no Don fan, but he does take pride in providing for his family and I think that even with his twisted morals, if she insists on a divorce, he will keep providing for her and would not want to take the kids from her. Underneath it all, he has a very low opioion of himself and there is no way that he'd think he could do a better job with them than she could . The $ in the drawer - lots of people assume it's the 500,000 dollars. I am sure most of that is in the bank. Don keeps some out as an escape fund for himself and proabably also becasue he is a child of the depression and doesn't trust banks. Remember, Betty said he dioesn't understand money. When he ran away to CA, he seemed willing to consider going back to selling cars. It's not all about the money with him, its the status family/wife.

Betty and Francis...WTF?????

Ok..I am a Betty sympathizer. I have backed my home girl since day 1. I have understood her character and identified with her more than any other on a TV show. It almost makes me feel silly.

My issue this week is how can she just flip the switch "I don't love you, Don" so quickly? As soon as Francis says he intends to marry her, she jumps the fence and all of a sudden wants to ditch DD.

I will give further comments in the posts....

Roger and Joan

Will Roger tire of his child bride and realize that Joan is a real woman?

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN TO BETTY

After the teacher's late night prank calls are hung up on by Don and she starts appearing at his home, work, and even his meetings, I would like Betty to divorce his philandering ass. Then I would like to see her marry a man who really appreciates her and treats her like a queen. Or I would like to see her get a job and start taking care of her family by herself. Either would satisfy me.

The Return of the Teacher

I am not sure what future Matt Weiner has planned for Don and his teacher, but if he wants to bring her back at some time in the next few years, he has a perfectly good and plausible excuse. There is a very good chance that Bobby will be in her class some day. I can't remember what grade she teaches, but I can certainly imagine Bobby telling his father some night at dinner(assuming Don asks him how school went that day) "I'm going to have Miss Farrell for my teacher next year. Sally says she is really nice." The parent/teacher conferences will take on a whole new meaning.

Rethinking Miss Farrell

Hello dearest Maddicts,
I've since watched the last episode 'The Hobo & The Gypsy' twice now, which what I normally like to do, to take it all in, spin it around in my brain a bit, and then reflect on all the little nuances, the growth in the characters, plot lines, etc. There was SO much to love in this last episode, it was harder for me to digest it in one piece...and so, just like my meals, I took smaller bite sized pieces, and mulled a few of the ingredients on my palette.
One thing I keep coming back to is Miss Farrell, or Suzanne, if you will.
Leave it to Weiner and his writing talent to create tension and build up, in regards to someone I summed up to be a 'bunny boiler'. The little things she said that made my head spin around, the little possessive inserts towards Don, the unknown caller at the Drapers that resulted in a hang-up, the way she narrowed her eyes at Don and wrapped her arms around him possessively....that was it. I was sold: hook, line and sinker, she was the perfect storm that wreak havoc over Don's life.
But she didn't.
In fact, in the last pillow talk session they had, she pulled away from Don, telling him she walked into it with her eyes wide open, and to let the feeling pass. What threw me for a loop was that it was DON reeling her back in, telling her HE didn't want it to pass, and asking her to take a week off from work, so that they could spend time together!
From that conversation, and when she ducked down in the front seat, as Don went inside, what worried me is that she might come up to the house and look inside the kitchen window, thus catching Betty's eye, where the fit would REALLY hit the shan for Don. But I quickly dismissed that, as the secret box scene was already a huge event and enough drama for the moment...but I did wonder, while all that was going on inside, what Suzanne would do...would she leave a note, wait a bit longer...what would she do??
Again, I was happily surprised to see she slipped out of the car when the coast was clear, and headed home. I felt that she knew something big was going on inside, and it was best if she not complicate the situation.
When Don ended it with her (well, he said "for now")over the phone, I thought, though she was tearful, and it was pretty clear to me Suzanne had fallen in love with Don, she stepped away gracefully. There wasn't a fight, or any big dramatic scene. I loved that she asked Don if he was ok. A selfish person, as I initially thought her to be, would never ask "Are YOU ok?", but they would be simply concerned with how this would affect them.
I was really impressed with Suzanne, and I've rethought my whole opinion of her, that she's actually a good person, who is probably lonely, and longs for the type of life that Betty and the other mothers around her have.
I'm still shaking my head at the 180 degree shift Suzanne took in my whole estimation of her!
What are your thoughts about her, Maddicts? I'm curious to hear your feedback on this!

Whether you're a Betty Draper-lover, hater, or in-between...here's a must read article. See link in "Comments."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2009/10/complexity_beauty_and_the_unde.html

IT'S TIME FOR BETTY'S MISDEEDS TO BE AIRED

I read about all of the sympathy for Betty on this message board. Let's not forget that she had her affairs as well. And I do mean that in plural. Kissing another man counts as infidelity in my eyes. Don is walking around thinking he has this innocent child-like woman at home raising his children, when Betty has such a devious, hidden side. I will never forget how she set up her friend to have an affair. She has her good moments, but Don needs to know that he isn't the only one that has disrespected their marriage. After watching the last episode, I was shocked how cold and unaffectionate she was when Don was crying. What woman who loves her man wouldn't reach for him and hold him in her arms. That was Don in his weakest moment and all she could do was lay a hand on his shoulder like a distant stranger. This marriage is as empty as it can be with two self absorbed characters. I like the new storyline with Roger and Annabelle a lot more than watching Don and Betty fake their marriage.

She May Be Spoiled!!!!!!

Betty made/sewed those Halloween Costumes!!!!!!!!!!

Betty bitchslapped Don!

Wow! What riveting television this past episode. Betty took no prisoners when she took Don to task for his long tenure of deception! That scene was powerful.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE

Don stops cheating on his wife and he concentrates on his family and career. Roger can pick up where he left off with Joan but only a more serious romance that leads to marriage. The child Roger married goes back to Trenton. We see more of Roger's mother. We see more of Bert. The limeys go away and Duck drowns along with Peggy.

Random Miss Farrell thought...

If Betty and the kids hadn't returned from Philly early, Don and Suzanne would've been cozying up in Norwich. Now I know that Don can skip off from work for days on end, but how easy would it be for a schoolteacher in those days? And even if she could get away from work, I thought it kind of weird that Suzanne -- who despite her faults seems to truly love nurturing children's minds -- would cut work and leave town and miss Halloween, such a magical and important day in a kiddie calendar.

Follow all 50+ Mad Men on Twitter on one site

Maybe some of you are interested in this, maybe not, but here is a link to follow all the Mad Men on twitter at one location: http://www.madmentwitter.com

SEASON 4 WISH LIST

Everybody would appreciate if for Peggy to be dropped from the show between seasons. No cause to explain her absence of kill off the character. Just let her be gone bye-bye. The Peggy character was an attempt which has failed. Don, upwardly mobile spawn of a trailertrash redneck and a gas-station hooker, wishes to mock Sterling Cooper by infiltrating a fellow low-class, uneducated pretender. He chooses Peggy because she personifies the downscale prole -- bluecollar urban high school, un-stylisn clothes and shoes, home-perm hair, drugstore makeup, slightly lumpen physique. The casting and wardrobe may have worked all too well. Peggy remains ineffably outerborough, eternally secretarial. She belongs in that huge windowless clerical corral so superbly presented by Mike Nichols in "Working Girl." Or waiting on the counter at Guido's All-Night Diner. But never in a window office in Midtown. Just go back across that Brooklyn Bridge, Peggy. The harder you try, the more incongruous you are.

Joan Rules!

Its about time she laid the smack down on that whiney loser she married.

Famous Characters in literature that resemble Don Draper...

I read a comment on one of these a while ago comparing Don to a famous character in American fiction. My mind slips me on the name and the author but it is a very well known story and the comparison to Don is spot on.

This character's parents died and he abandoned his past and reinvented himself as a success. Basically an embodiment of the most extreme example of the American dream. Does ANYONE know who I'm talking about if I could figure this out it would give my mind a huge rest, thanks.

Confessions of Mad Men

Don's confession to Betty is getting all the attention--with good reason. But isn't it interesting to note the contrast between that confession and the one Greg made to Joan?

Don's confession was big, dramatic, and forced by Betty. Greg, on the other hand, casually volunteered the information to Joan that his father had a nervous breakdown. He then flippantly said something like, "I can't believe I never told you that before."

The wives' reactions differed, too. Betty couldn't help but to comfort Don about his brother. The next day, Betty and Don acted much more considerately toward each other, almost as one would with an acquaintance.

Greg and Joan, on the other hand, were operating on different planes. Greg whined, and Joan snapped and hit him over the head with a vase.

And let's not forget that a few episodes back, Pete "confessed" his most recent infidelity to Trudy without saying a word, and this seemed to bring them closer.

What do you think all of these confessions mean for the characters' relationships?

How many loose threads will fit in two episodes?

For the love of Paul's beard, I need to know what happened to Sal.

Any other plot lines eating away at people? What gets closure and what doesn't?

...and how long did she sit in the car??????

How long did she wait in teh car before realizing that Don wasn't available for comment????

The Hobo and the Gypsy

I noted a lot of questioning about who's the hobo and who is the gypsy (outside of the costumed kids); some suggested Suzanne and her brother--but her absent brother (1) wasn't in the episode and (2) isn't a hobo. A hobo wants to be on the move. Suzanne's brother is forced to be on the move because of his epilepsy. Which is why I'd vote the Hobo and Gypsy as being Don and Suzanne. Suzanne is attractive to Don because she is a free spirit like he is, but she's much more "exotic" and spiritual, more the gypsy. Of course, there's also a possibility that the title suggests Betty confrontation of Don about his first "wife" Anna--a tarot card reader.

The hobo, however, is most certainly Don, as he has been labeled so, metaphorically speaking, from the first time we see him learning lessons about the hobo code from an actual hobo. But the show went even farther this particular episode to make sure we got the connection.

After his confession to Betty, he is washing up and he looks at himself in the mirror. We feel this is the first time he's looking at himself and seeing the real him not the Don Draper mask he tries to wear 24/7. The man he sees in the mirror has a very heavy 5 O'Clock shadow. Just like we see in old Hollywood movie stereotypes of Hobos. Just the way bobby has his face done up for Halloween.

The gypsy may be a question, but the Hobo is Don.

St Margaret, Patron Saint of Hoboes

I just came across something about St Margaret of Cortona and it states she is the patron saint of:

The falsely accused; hoboes; homeless; insane; orphaned; mentally ill; midwives; penitents; single mothers; reformed prostitutes; third children; tramps.

I just thought it was interesting as it sorta ties in to various characters of Mad Men...and of course there is our Margaret "Peggy" Olsen. Peggy is from a Catholic family, perhaps she was named after St Margaret of Cortona!

He joins the ARMY? Yeah, right.

Gay.

Mad Men takes another journey into the absurd after Joanie's little boy, "my son, the doctor," (this IS after all, how the character is written and played) first wants to be a surgeon, then a shrink, and now, on to a different playtime game: let's play SOLDIERS!! Yay! I can be a surgeon AND a soldier at the same time! Yippee!!

In their never-ceasing quest to portray straight white males as corrupt or overgrown juveniles, we are supposed to believe this bizarre turn of events. "Sure, I may have to go to Nam, but that will be over soon..." or such childish words to that effect. Thus, the good people of the creative team want us to believe that this "kid," who managed to graduate med school, convince the all-knowing, all-seeing, wisest of wise, Queen Joan, that he was "the one," is now going to join the Army out of a desperate and peurile desire to be play with his favorite toys, uh, that is, become a surgeon.

On another topic, Don becomes more and more corrupt, while Cooper, perhaps the MOST corrupted soul on the planet, shows some "integrity," by refusing the advances of an old flame? Hah? Betts, find Don's "stuff,"??? Is this, "Mad Men," or "Days of Our Lives"??? Gee, you think Luke and Laura will get back together again?!??

Betty

So Betty wasn't just sitting with that box and drinking wine. She actually went out and had another set of keys made. I am so proud of her! In the scene where Betty confronted Don, she seemed older to me, more like a grown woman and less like a spoiled daddy's girl. She was truly a woman wondering just who this man is she has suddenly found herself married to. Great job by January Jones.

Stupefyin' Joan!

Wow, I could watch that rat doctor get conked on the head all night! How satisfying was that? Roger still loves her, and I think he is just finding that out. It wasn't Mona or Jane he was thinking about when he told Annabelle she wasn't "the one" for him.

Who Cares about Annabelle Whatshername?

I hate all this needless introduction of new characters when we've been waiting so long for the threads of other stories to be continued. Comments?

AB = A + B

A is Annabelle.
A is Anna.
B is Betty.
Annabelle is the classiness and demure of Anna and the beauty of Betty. It would have been more obvious if Annabelle was Anna Beth. I believe Don will try hard to win Annabelle. He definitely has to get that account so he'd better quit messin' with Suzanne who by the way is....Suz---'anne'......

Betty Haters

Remember, Betty, like Don, is a product of her upbringing. Grandpa Gene told Sally that grandma made Betty walk home from town after running errands because she was fat... no wonder Betty is obsessed with her appearance.
Betty's parents didn't approve of her choice in career (modeling), marriage, and grandpa told her (in his last episode) that he was essentially disappointed with her. Not exactly a warm and fuzzy child hood. No wonder she has difficultly expressing feeling for her children, I am sure she received no affection from her mother and her father treated her like a princess doll, not a real child.
As for her behavior towards Don...she has suspected that he has been cheating (and he has, since before Bobby was born). She has been living with his overnight disappearances, lack of respect, and lame excuses for years.
People are calling her a hypocrite because she had a quickie in a bar, while SEPARATED from Don, after Don confirmed the HUMILATING AFFAIR with Bobby Barrette - are you kidding? She was due!
As for her parenting skills, at least she is responsible. Don leaves, for days (nights) at a time, without even checking in - when he's ducking out on Betty, he is also ducking out on the kids. When he is cheating with Sally's teacher, he isn't just risking his marriage to Betty, he is risking his relationship with his kids, and their happiness; which doesn't seem to bother him one bit.

Is Ken Normal Man?

I watch this series in English so I don't understand every word.Ken never is seen with a woman and I wonder if he is sexual deviant like Salvatore? Is that correct word? you know like гомосексуально.

Pryce, His Wife, Similarities with Don, etc.

It seems that many of the posters here like Pryce. I do, and I was wondering what others thought of his storyline this episode.

First, as open-thread posters like Never Not Tasty and Jhhugo have noted, Pryce's contentment in America may stem from the fact that he comes from a slightly lower social class in England than his superiors at PPL. He likes it here because no one asks where he went to school.

In this respect, Pryce and Don share similarities. In America, work gives them both the chance to succeed without needing to build upon the trappings of family connection, school, social status, etc. that someone like Roger can and does do. Maybe Pryce likes the fact that in America, work not only is what you do, it is who you are.

They also both have unhappy wives. Mrs. Pryce, like Betty, tends to make most things about herself. Does she deserve some pity, though, for having to put up with Pryce's endless devotion to his superiors and all the moving and relocations this causes her?

Thoughts?

As for

Mad Men Word Association

Just for fun......list the characters and type the first word that comes to mind for each one.

Don-dark
Betty-lost
Carla-strong
Roger-pompous
bert-eccentric
Pete-creepy
Peggy-determined
Ken-clueless
Paul-arrogant
Harry-baffoon
Lois-cluts
Lane-proud
Monneypenny-toad
Joan-dignity
Greg-cagey

Is Don a Good Lover?

Does he give as good as he gets? We know that Don is a womanizer. But the show never makes it clear whether he satisfies the women he sleeps with, especially Betty. This is also important to her character as well as reflective of female sexuality at the time and the male attitude towards it. I wonder whether the writers have thought about this aspect of Don's character.

49 Most Influential Men

http://www.askmen.com/specials/2009_top_49/don-draper-1.html - Sorry if this a double post

Mad Lois returns!

YAY - loved her face when kinsey told her to shut up!

Who is tops in the Power Rankings this week?

http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/mad-men-power-rankings-week-10-enjoy-the-world-as-it-is-margaret-theyll-change-it-and-never-give-you.php

On the Move Youth Movement

This is the third time Don has given a ride to one of the budding "youths" who will likely be part of the youth movement. The Hitchhikers were the first, jogging Miss Ferrell was next, and now her brother. They're all restless and unfocused, rebellious, of course. And in need of a ride to the next point on their journey.

There's one other thing they all have in common, and it actually concerns me. We don't really like them. It's not that we have to, but I wonder if Matt W. can or will present anyone in the youth movement as interesting and complex and sometimes sympathetic as so many characters on this show are and have been (I think we all agree that Miss Ferrell isn't living up wonderful characters like Midge and Rachael and Anna).

As Don has been our P.O.V., it might well be that we're suppose to feel as distant from the budding youth movement as he does. He is a man who always wanted to be part of a club, and now is--the establishment. As we saw when he was with Midge, he takes a certain pride in this and doesn't want to give it up, but it means that he's disconnected himself from a part of himself forever--however much he keeps entering into affairs as a way of protesting otherwise. He has made himself, sadly and ironically, a stranger to those who would seem to be a lot like him: creative, freedom-loving, free-love-making, rebellious.

Certainly, it's apt that Don finds himself in the role of "dad" or taxi driver of this upcoming generation--ironic, too, for the man who connected most closely to Hobos. He can give them a ride to the next point in their journey, he can converse with them for about that long, but then they have to go their separate ways. He wanted to be in the driver's seat and he is. And that's where he's going to stay, like it or not.

Nordic Downside

Would Don's affair with Miss Farrell have even started if Betty had boinked Don the day after they returned from Italy? Personally, I think not. He was looking for warmth and affection, hadn't done one thing wrong when she went all "Nordic" on him. Even Miss Farrell, even if she wasn't in the mood, didn't mind being affectionate.

Paul's Big Idea

Anyone have any guesses as to what Paul's idea was?

Lois

I know she is a minor character in the grand scheme of all things Mad Men, but Lois is a favorite of mine, and wasn't I glad to see her last night! Apparently she is still secretary to Paul, and jeez, Louise, let us hope she is not privy to ALL his little routines around the office. Did it appear to anyone else that Lois seemed just a tad not quite with it? Of course, shredding a man's foot with a riding lawn mower would be quite sufficient to rattle anyone, and it appeared to me that Lois has not fully recovered from that experience. I am so glad she did not get fired, but I bet she stays in the background when St. John Powell and his creepy henchman come by the office during the 40th anniversary celebration.

Sweet Sally

When Sally answered the phone, and no one responded, I was pretty sure it was her former teacher calling for Don. Then I remembered the little boy Sally kissed in the bathtub....maybe he now has a crush on her and was too shy to speak when she answered. I was so hoping to hear her say "Thith ith Thally Draper. Who ith calling, pleath?" I love that little Sally Draper....in the words of Lou Grant, she's got spunk. Jeez Louise, do you think some day she will be looking after Bobby and Gene like the teacher takes care of her brother?

Don is starting to bore me.

Does anyone else out there think that Don's character's becoming a bit predictable? Studly at work, studly with the ladies, and chronically unfaithful. I used to think his character was interesting and charismatic, but not so much anymore. I still love the show, but there are other characters I prefer.

Jeez Louise

I think Sally is smart and tricky. She knows her mother is TIGHLY wound. She might just push her over the egde. By the way whose lunch was in the brown bag - was it Sal's.

I Can't Stand Miss Farrell!

Who is this woman? Why did they put her on? She is "Nothing to Write Home About!"

Don's Waterloo

I think Don has met his match with the teacher. I sense she is fatal attraction material. All of the defensive character attacks in her "Prelude to a Kiss" that she new would be inevitable. There is the implication of some deep rooted emotional baggage there. This isn't a casual adult thing like Don had with strangers far away cities or Jimmy's wife who knew the score. This is in his backyard with a woman who is obviously not about to be cast aside. Don is vulnarable. He is succumbing to compromise left and right. Look at the way he allows Connie to overstep professional bounds. He responds to him like a child to a father desperately seeking approval. Its disconcerting to witness and it won't be long before it compromises the respect of the young ambitious elements of SC. Betts is longing for glamour and excitement and the charm bracelet trinket Don gave her demonstrated volumes. But this young teacher, Don is weak and in over his head.

The Return of Joan

Since next week's episode deals with a party Roger is planning to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Sterling Cooper, it seems likely to me that he might perhaps contact former valued employees and invite them to the party. Who would he value more than our own dear Joan? I want Joan back at Sterling Cooper, and I want her free of the rat doctor. What do you think Maddicts? Could this be an opportunity for Joan to find herself back in the employ of Sterling Cooper? I personally think they should be begging her to come back, but then I have always been a fan of Stupefyin' Joan. She puts every other woman in the shade, including Betty.

Halloween

Just for fun, (my list is meant to be silly-- a lot of these aren't historically accurate) what could our favorite MM characters dress up as for Halloween?

Don = Two-Face from Batman
Betty = Princess Grace
Peggy = naughty Catholic schoolgirl uniform or a ballet dancer with a baseball bat ("home run ballerina")
Pete = Don, because he so wants to be him
Trudy = 1920's flapper. Charleston!
Gudrun = Mary Poppins. She can hit Pete with her giant umbrella if he comes near her again.
Sal = Ann-Margret
Roger = a knight. He got 3 sheets to the wind and tried it on.
Bert = samurai or ninja
Pryce = belly dancer/snake charmer
Lois = Lizzie Borden
Joan = Jessica Rabbit (the resemblance is uncanny)
Dr. Rapist = Butterfinger candy bar
Sally = Laila Ali
Bobby = a ghost (he's so quiet)
baby Gene = a pig in a blanket
Grandpa Gene = Julius Caesar
Connie = he can't decide whether he wants to be a cowboy or an astronaut
Miss Farrell = something involving a straitjacket

Pants-down moments in season 3

This season, several of our beloved characters have been caught with their pants down (figuratively, for the most part). Below is a list of pants-down moments. What others have you noticed? What do you think is the significance of this trend thematically?

- Don seeing Sal with the bellboy
- Carla noticing the guilty look on Betty's face after Henry's visit
- Pete's neighbor confronting him about the incident with the nanny
- Bert using Don's not-so-secret identity as leverage to get Don to sign the contract
- Conrad calling Don out for not meeting his expectations about Hilton on the moon
- Pete discovering Joan's post-SC employment, and Joan questioning whether the stained dress belonged to Trudy

Betty wants a courtly lover

Betty cut things short with Henry because she would have to climb down from the pedestal to consummate the relationship. That would mean sacrificing what little power she has. Henry said it himself: when you don't have the power, delay.

We've seen time and again that Betty loves to be admired. Others have noted the resemblance between renaissance paintings and scenes of Betty on the fainting couch. A painting can be admired, but not held and caressed.

Years ago, Don probably admired Betty the way Henry does now--the way he role-played in Rome. But Betty made a real life with Don, and things didn't turn out as she'd fantasized. She's scared to have that happen with Henry.

I'm not saying that Henry and Don are alike, or that Betty will never let down her guard physically with Henry. I just think that Betty gets a lot of satisfaction--and a sense of power--out being a queen with a courtly lover.

This show is becoming a soap opera

More on Joan, Sal, Peggy - those story lines are interesting. But 1 more affair from Don? I get it, he runs whenever he's threatened, upset, blah, blahh. not asking to change his character, but does it have to be the main story line every week? Betty'srelationship with Henry is more interesting because it's a NEW STORY LINE.

I Married A Mad Man

Matty Weiner acknowledged that Dan Draper was partly inspired by the real Draper Daniels, the creative head of Leo Burnett in Chicago, in the 1950's. This was written by his wife.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2009/I-Married-a-Mad-Man/

Hitchcock would have loved Betty

I'm sure this has probably been mentioned in the past. January Jones/Betty is a classic Hitchcock beautiful icy blond. Think Grace Kelly, Kim Novak, Tippi Hedren, Eva Marie Saint....she would have been cast for sure by him for sure, back in the day, don't you think?!!

Don's attraction to Betty

As we know, Don has a thing for independent, career-minded women (Rachel, Midge, Bobbie, etc.). I think Betty's efforts to save the reservoir have played a large part in reawakening Don's attraction to Betty (that gorgeous black dress and Roman-fountain hairdo didn't hurt either). Ironically, this interest of Betty's thats driving Don towards her is driving her away from Don and towards Henry Francis.

Why Pete, why?

Here I was thinking Pete had a somewhat redemptive character arc and he goes and does something awful again. I guess we can at least give him credit for feeling guilty about it? Why does Trudy put up with him? The "previously on Mad Men" showed the infamous part where he essentially tells her he doesn't love her and doesn't want to go with her to Rehobeth...so is that still true? Ahhh why Pete, why?

Bi-Polar or Princess Syndrome...

what's wrong with Betty?

Betty wows Rome!

Who knew? Or have I missed something? Betty morphs into a Blonde Sofia Loren and is fluent in Italian.....where oh where did she learn these skills? I gotta say that I LOVED watching Don's consternation as she knocked those two suave Romeos' into next week and she did it with her own cool style! Her husband rediscovered some of her major mojo for sure.

Peggy Olsen - LinkedIn

Apparently, Twitter is not the only networking site to host the fictional characters of Mad Men.

Reasons to Like These People

C'mon, Maddicts. I'm at a loss. After this last episode (and all that has led us to this point), I'm tempted to dismiss all these jokers as despicable. It doesn't help that many of them are working in a much maligned profession. I mean, they push death with no compunctions in the form of war machines and cigarettes. Money and power are their gods. Appearances are everything. They are all liars and manipulators, or worse. Can someone help me find a reason to wish good things for them? Is any one of them redeemable?

Roger's Future

It looks like Don is gearing up for a fight with Roger. I feel more than a bit apprehensive about this. Both men are formidable opponents. Don can be ruthless and cunning, but Roger is childish, vindictive and "does not like to be judged." I don't know which one would be worse to have as an enemy. We're accustomed to seeing Don be the victor in all his combat situations, but lately that seems to have changed.

Both Roger and Don endured humbling experiences during the most recent episodes. Don wasn't promoted and Roger was forgotten - accidentally, or was he being given a message? To heal their wounded pride, both men have to take action of some sort. Don was trying to reestablish control at work by not signing the contract and taking out his anger at Peggy. He failed with both attempts. Bert blackmailed him and Peggy is establishing independence from Don.

What is Roger going to do to reestablish himself as a power at SC? How much time is needed to schmooze with the really big accounts? Not much I think. Personally I would like to see Roger actually pay attention to his employees, to at least try to create a bond of loyalty should Don ever attempt to jump ship in the future and take them with him, but that is never going to happen. Roger's too much of a snob. Though it would be hilarious to see him trying to make conversation at a series of lunches with his own staff. "So, Peggy... Olson, is that a Swedish name?" "Sal, have I ever met your wife?"

What should Roger do to make himself a player in the firm, instead of a person "penciled in" on a transparency for the overhead projector?

Sleeping With The Devil

The second Duck Phillips made his shocking re-entry into the world of Mad Men, I knew he was about to become a major villain. I love the way his character's downfall has been portrayed over two seasons. We were introduced to him as the recovered alcoholic, turning the corner by trying to run a successful ad firm's accounts, but slowly, things began to go wrong. As conflict and disappointment creeps up, Duck slumps into depression, and as any addict can attest, is tempted by the devil. And unfortunately, because Mr. Phillips isn't a strong person, the devil wins.

And now, fresh off the heels of his being removed from SC, his false-confidence has turned him into a "Jekyl/Hyde" of sorts. The cleverly disguised phone call to Pete was just the beginning, but I had no idea how far they'd take it. Seducing Peggy, the literal symbol of innocence and the roots of Feminism in our story, has to be the most devilish thing I can imagine him doing.

I certainly hope good wins over evil in this one, and Peggy comes to her senses, because that was probably one of the most horrific things I've seen on this series, and let's be honest, we've been through a lot (Don's power play on Bobbie at the restaurant, and Guy losing a foot, come to mind). But I don't think we've seen just how low Duck Phillips is willing to stoop to get what he's got to be ultimately looking for: revenge on Don Draper.

Props to Mark Moses for playing this role so well!

No Contact With Roger Sterling

No contact with Roger?...Say it ain't so. How can we lose those after victory drinking bouts? Roger's waxing philsophical over what women want... He and Don dueling over oysters...Roger taking one for the road...Thats my car...Lights...No, no, they can't take that away from us...

The way Rog drops bald hints...

The way they sip whiskey...

The way they love to spar...No, no they can't take that away from we...

The way Don slapped him down...

The way Rog rode Mirabelle in...

The way he called Don "Rochester".. No, no they can't take that away from we...

The way Don seemed amused...

The moves Rog put on Betty...

The way they make us howl...No, no they can't take away Slattery...

No, they can't take Roger away from we...

It's Batman without Robin...Beatrice without Benedict...Matt Dillon without Festus...Henry Frankenstein without Praetorius...Lewis without Clark...Jefferson without Adams...Burns without Allen...Crosby without Hope...Lucy without Desi...

The lure of orange hair...

The bottom of the glass you couldn't see...

The way he called Pete Paul...No, no they can't take that away from we... No, they can't take that away from we...

Betty the Renaissance painting

Did anyone else think this: did Betty remind you of a Renaissance painting?

It was a theme done over and over with a similiar piece of furniture and the beautiful siren lying prone, to be admired. That's exactly what we see with Betty, an illusion to a Renaissance painting. Look at the first shot of her, the soft lighting, the comfort and contentment of her, her arm behind her head not exactly but similar to the idea of posing.

Posing for us the viewer.

That's her character. Self-centered Betty lying there for all of us to admire. Betty enjoying the admiring of Henry, the man showing her attention. Betty, the former model, enjoying being adored, an object of beauty waiting to be painted.

It really is all about attention with Betty.

The Mysterious Miss Farrell

A few episodes ago, Miss Farrell, in her slightly tipsy phone call to the Draper residence, engaged in overt flirtation with Don. Now, in episode 7, she seems offended by what she takes as a come-on from him. Which is it that she wants: his attention, or for him to leave her alone?

Will the real Miss Farrell please stand up?

I'm trying to decide who was more stupid

The hitchhikers for coming up with such a convoluted robbery plan that really shouldn't succeed, or Don, for allowing it to succeed anyway. "Pay me with drugs? Why sure! And I'd love to party with you in your motel room!"

Could we be seeing the back side of an affair?

I mentioned this in another post but could it be that the teacher's strange behavior masks an affair between her and Don? Her strangely bitter remarks to him and the fragments between them...The strange phone call...The "Old Kentucky Home" end shot that seemed to show Don (or someone) in an embrace...Could it be that she and Don in public are feigning not to know each other while carrying on in private? And this one time, to confuse us, Matt and co are not showing us what's going on?

Not to Mention,...Conrad...

After Conrad's strange conversation with Don, I can see where Paris (assuming a relation) gets it from. What was all that? And this need to rope Don in with a contract?

I await the episode where Conrad and Burt welcome Don to ...The Club.

And Betty? And the teacher?

Betty seems pretty casual about Don's overnight absence...And his "fender-bender" injury. Perhaps the fainting couch has affected her?

And the teacher? What the heck? She seems to be obsessed with Don rather than vice-versa, given the earlier episode where she had that bizarre near-faint while talking to him by phone. Apparently, despite the "Old Kentucky Home" ending she and Don are not yet involved outside perhaps a mutual fantasy but it's still very weird....In fact Burt, Betty, the teacher...All around weird behavior on MM tonight.

Burt?

After 3 years of cheering Don's independence on and seeming to be perfectly happy risking the Brit buyout suddenly Burt is putting the screws and how to Dick/Don, even threatening him in a rather unmistakable way? Surely Hilton can't be that big a deal... Very strange change in Mr. C. I suppose it could be Burt protecting his "boy" Roger but it still doesn't quite seem like our Burt.

Wake Up Everybody! It's Saturday afternoon now, and I just thought I would start another thread until tomorrow's show.

If photograher Diane Arbus found herself at Sterling Cooper in 1963, would she find any interesting subjects to photograph?

If so, who do you think she would snap? Personally, I think she would find Joan and Peggy together a possibility.

Don Draper, Creative Genius...really??

OK, I realize we are just to accept this as part of the plot, but I don't see all that much creative genius-ing going on. We have seen Don sleeping on the job, ducking out to have illict affairs, oops, I mean going to the printers, and powering down a lot of alcohol. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat with "Lucky Strike, it's toasted, and the Carousel was good, but that was about all. Or am I missing something?? Exactly what is it about him that the Brits are studying?

Dick Whitman's nonbiological mother

I am having the hardest time believing that Dick Whitman's non-biological mother wasn't a nice woman who loved Dick and tried to raise him as her own son. True, not the best of circumstances, that she was given Dick but she had a child. If you have been adopted or know a parent who has adopted you will understand that a child becomes yours the day you accept him into your life.
I call her no biological because the word "stepmother " connotes evil and I want to believe that Abigail was good to Dick and loved him. Archie was mean and hateful to Dick because he was a mean man (see Hobo Code episode, Season One) but Abigail...I never saw her say or do anything. So someone tell me I'm wrong.

Petition to KEEP Mad Lois!

If you want to see your favorite train wreck - i mean secretary - stay at SC - then post here!

What does it mean if you lose a foot....

...in a season of MadMen where bare feet are one of the most important symbols? (That's not me, by the way, That's Matt who said: " the bare feet, the first image (of the episode) is the story of the season in a way."

One thing is sure, Guy's loss of a foot does put everyone else's problems in perspective. Joan can probably deal with her losses better knowing that things could be worse, and Don not getting the job he expected likely sees that he's got it pretty good. Guy, after all, doesn't just lose a foot and the job he hoped to have overseeing SC, but, according to his fellow Brits, he loses all that he's been molded, shaped, geared and trained to be. He can't even, according to them, use his one great gift because he can't walk a golf course.

His entire identity, future and purpose in life was lost when he lost that foot.

Betty Draper

Does anyone else hate her character fro being a b*&^# all the time?

Where are the kids?

This has been bugging me from the first season. Other than Sally's birthday party, we never see a neighborhood kid, much less a bunch of them, either playing in the yard with Sally and Bobby or popping into the house to retrieve a toy left behind, or use the bathroom, etc. I realize they aren't going to have a bunch of children around on a regular basis but once a season to have a friend or two sharing a glass of milk and sandwioh at lunch time would not be outrageous. Sometimes it seems like Ossinning is in outer Mongolia. Sally and Bobby ARE part of the Baby Boom generation but you'd hardly know it from their neighborhood.

Pete and Hollis: a thought

Wow, it's been forever since I posted on here!

Sorry that my post is an episode behind, and thus is about something likely already discussed, but I just had a thought about Pete's conversation with Hollis in the elevator. Yes, it's plain to see that Hollis was understandably uncomfortable with the topic at hand, but do you think it could also be that Hollis isn't comfortable with Pete himself? I ask because in the last season, Hollis initiates a casual conversation with Don and Peggy regarding the death of Marilyn Monroe (and reveals that, yes, he likely does follow baseball as Pete guesses in their own conversation, or at least feels for Joe DiMaggio) In retrospect, it seems like the first conversation would be highly unlikely -- a black "servant" offering his unsolicited opinion and pity for a white sex symbol to two white "superiors", one of which is a white female -- UNLESS they were all pretty cool with each other and had established that kind of rapport. Perhaps in all their years of working in the same building, Pete has never really talked to Hollis until that point.

"Pulling a Sadler"

I would like to add "Pulling a Sadler" to the lexicon:

Definition: doing the absolute most inappropriate at exactly the wrong time. See Comments Below

Peggy Fainting

Peggy has always been the go-getter, the hard worker who never lets anything faze her. I've always seen her as unexpectedly strong. So any thoughts as to why she fainted at the sight of blood (into Pete's arms)? There must be something symbolic here, I'm just wondering what it might be.

The Name is a Metaphor

Thirteen very astutely posited that Lane Pryce's name is an apt description of his 'way'. He counts price above other business considerations. His job is to steer down a fiscally sound 'lane'-- trim and save, don't take risks.

My theory is that the name Don Draper also offers a key to that character's behavior. According to Merriam-Webster, the word 'draper' means a dealer in cloth and sometimes in clothing and dry goods. Think about cloth, how it is used to cover things.

We know Don's an excellent salesman who subscribes to David Ogilvy's noted theory about the nature of advertising.

We also know he's a Don Juan!

Anyone want to take a stab at the name "Dick Whitman"?

Joan Deserves a Medal!

I admire this woman now more than ever. First, she's informed that hubby Greg "has no brains in his fingers" Harris will NOT receive the antcipated residency....that she will have to keep working. This comes as no real surprise to the rest of us, but Joan bore the bad news. She appears so cool and calm as the Brits descend upon SC, on what is to be her last day at work. The pressure must have been unimaginable! Yet her greatest moment takes place on the floor, drenched in blood, attending to Guy's nearly severed ankle and had to give orders to boot!! THEN SHE GOES TO THE HOSPITAL WITH HIM!! She reminded me of Jackie K. at that point (although not as dire....but still). Finally, she jokes with Don and leaves the hospital in her bloody green dress, swinging her shopping bag. Joan is a true goddess. When will she be crowned Queen??

What Will Joan Do???

Hi everyone,

I can't stop worrying about Joan. I think she's starting to grasp that she made a mammoth mistake, marrying Greg (gee Joan, ya think? The whole engagement started on a bad note, with him sexually assaulting you in Don's office!), and I think that Joan wanted to say something to Don, while they were in the waiting room. They shared an amazing moment together, and I haven't seen Don laugh that hard, at Joan's fantastic quip of, "One moment you're on top of the world. The next, a secretary runs over your foot with a lawnmower," since Roger's quips he was making in the elevator, as they were on their way to the underground casino. The way Joan looked at Don, and he looked at her-the respect and love came blaring from my TV. I had a good cry at that moment, as I can't believe she may be leaving the show. The chemistry Joan has with everyone at Sterling Cooper is too important.

What will Joan do? Your predictions please, everyone!

sally

Your Post

Conrad Hilton

Here's a link to the TIME magazine article on Connie: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,896912,00.html

Interesting excerpt:

As the force that created this empire, Conrad Hilton might be expected to be as calculating, as antiseptic and as glossily sophisticated as his hotels. The surprise about Hilton is that he is so much like the guests he caters to. Boyish, candid, trusting, he never fails to be amazed and pleased--even astonished--by the world around him. He cannot get over the speed of jet planes or his possession of a $100 Texas-style Stetson, whose price he mentions to anyone who will listen. He is susceptible to even the most transparent flattery. "You know," he says, "after the Rotterdam opening, the president of the corporation that owns the hotel came up to me and said, 'Your dance was the greatest thing that happened here.' That touched me most." When something impresses him, he often slaps his knee and exclaims: "By golly!"

Hilton refuses to comprehend bad news or business reversals ("Don't bother me about that," he says), and his top aides instinctively try to protect him from the harsh realities of the world. Says one: "For all his financial genius, he's the kind of man who can't catch a plane by himself." He is essentially a lonely man, and his closest friend is neither a businessman nor one of his four children, but his personal secretary for 21 years, Olive Wakeman, fiftyish, who acts as his chief buffer against the outside world. "I've got to protect him," she says. "He's the most naive man for his experience I've ever seen; he will not believe that anyone would tell an untruth."

Don at Home

Just about every episode this season has ended with Don at home with his family. In the past three episodes we've had Sally alone, after Gene's death. Then we have Don and Sally after baby Gene's birth, and most recent we have Don, Sally, and baby Gene, together for the first time.

I know there are alot of Betty haters out there, but I feel like this family is slowly finding one another, finding it's way back together and learning that it's easier to heal as a unit, then to try and do it alone.

Any predictions as to whether Betts and Bobby will be joining the party any time soon? And what needs to happen to make it so?

Lois Sadler's Next Career Move

Well, well, well. Looks like our favorite secretary will be polishing up her resume. Any suggestions for her next career choice?

Can we hope that Greg is lying dead on the floor next week?

I thought it was Don, but PixilDust said it could be Dr. Rapist. Easy for Joan to go back to SC if Greg is DEAD.

Is Suzanne the new Betty?

Your Post

The Peggy Effect

In a previous epi, Pete states "...your decisions affect me". Any predictions about Pete and Peggy???

Cast & Character Season 3 Update

Why is there no Season 3 update of Cast & Characters? This omission seems to be a cyclical rebuke from the producers to viewers!

Carla

Why did Betty fire Carla? How will she cope without her?

Which Mad Man are You

I took this test twice over a three week period. I didn't memorize my answers. I was hoping for a different result the second time, but both times I was Joan Holloway. It didn't do much for my male ego. Of course I wanted to be Roger or Don. Anyone else care to take the test and share the result. it is easy to find the game, just go to MadMen main.

Betty..

Ok.. so whats with Betts attitude lately? She is well aware the Don is a lying cheat and now she will have the worst Post Partum Depression, the passing of her father tipped the scales for her!

M Maddicts Vacation with SC Family &Freinds

with all the tensions at SC this season, perhaps some R&R would be helpful. Who would you want to go on vacation with and where would you go?
I worry most about Harry and feel that he'd do well to get away and really think deeply about what he wants to accomplish . He somehow got himself a plum position but he's not makeing much of it. He seems to confide in his fatherinlaw but I'd like him to start thinking on his feet.. Where would be a destination that would spur him on? .

Pryce

Last episode during the ant farm calamity, Pryce doesn't throw a fit, he actually laughs along with the guys. Not what we'd think.

Right before that he walked in while the guys were discussing jai alai, and he says, "Look at this, comaraderie, perhaps we've found America's new past time". Is he talking not of jai alai but of comaraderie being America's past time (in that Brit tongue and cheek subtle sarcastic kind of dry wit) ?

So this episode Don says something like I can't talk to you when you're this way and pours a drink. And here Pryce doesn't put his hand over Don's drink and say no. He accepts it, and even in his own novice way, takes a sip.

The first episode they were drinking tea. Also Pryce even had a little empathy for the Americans in firing 1/3 of the work force.

There may be something to this Pryce..

Don and the Prison Guard

Thoughts as to why the Prison guard ignored Don as he passed him in the hospital hallway while pushing his wife in the wheel chair ?

Roger and Don

I see that Roger and Don's friendship has really changed since last season. Instead of dropping by Don's office, he called him regarding the Art dept. I guess he can't stand being in the same room with Don for too long. And the way he chided him on his son's birth when he only took half a day from work to be with Betty and his new baby. Roger is so jealous of Don that he bought himself a new wife so he can fell like he's Don's equal. Roger should be over his mid life crisis by now. How long is this going to last. Also, everyone seems to think that Don has it all even Peggy. From the outside looking in, he does. But all of these characters envy Don so much fronm Roger, Pete, Peggy and probably many more yet Don is just as unhappy as they are. These characters are so busy looking at what someone else has that they can't see thatthey have just as much as Don. Pete has his family legacy that Don in a way once envied being raised in a privileged world. Remember his conversation with the gentleman at Roger's partyand peeing in rich people's cars. Peggy has her new career than Joan secretly envies but doesn't know how to speak up. Joan has her new marriage, although a bad one, that many of the secretaries think is a pot of gold. Pete envies Don for evertything that he has. It jsut seems that noone on th eshow is happy. I keep thinking about what Gene said, "You people think that money is the answer to everything" Everyone on the show seem to want money and status. I wonder if Don will end up leaving SC and take Sal, Pete, Peggy with him. Let's be real, the entire company would follow Don. He's like the glue that holds that company together. Roger had better tread carefully.

Peggy You go girl

I know a large portion of the regulars here are Pegaholics. I would love to see her go. The dynamics are dynamic. oh I think I have a slogan. Anyhow I am not trying to get rid of her. The possibilities of it happening are intriguing. And she can always come back after Duck's scheme inevitably falls apart. Glad to see Duck back. He is such a silk covered , big dreaming,backstabbing sleazebag. All in the costume of extreme civility. So much like so many buisness people.Only taken to an extreme. Will Peggy come back, hat in hand. Will she come back to and get a raise? or after seeing Roger wave Good-bye Don will he leave and take Peggy and Pete and screw Duck again,mmmmmmcould be

Why Would Pete Believe Peggy About The Baby?

Peggy always seemed a bit unbalanced to me and not the innocent little virgin she pretends to be.She may not even know who the real father is and Pete would have to be very naive to take her word for it. Let's look at the first episode of Mad Men. It's Peggy's first day on the job but yet somehow Peggy becomes friendly enough with Joan for Joan to recommend that she see a doctor she knows to get some birth control pills. Somehow Peggy immediately gets an appointment on her lunch hour to see him. Later in the day we see Peggy in Don's office trying to hold hands with him. Later in the evening after Pete's bachelor party we see him show up at Peggy's place(perhaps he just got her address from the phone book) and she invites him in to shag her, a guy she just met that day after he made a few rude remarks to her and who she knows is getting married on Sunday. Does this all sound very plausible? Sure, she could get pregnant from doing it one time but the odds are 90$ against it since a female can only get pregnant the 3 days she is ovulating and even here a lot depends on chance and other factors. Later in the series we see Peggy go into a bar and pick up some guy for sex and they do "other things" but I'd say that Peggy was picking up men for sex long before she met Pete and it was only after she got knocked up that she became more cautious. There's no reason to believe that she had Pete's baby and she only told him this out of female spite because he married another woman.

Theme Songs for Mad Men Characters

If everyone had their own signature song, what would it be? C'mon, there's no limit, play along!

My suggestions:

Why Can't You Behave? (Don)

June is Bustin' Out All Over (Betty)

You Make Me Feel So Young (Roger/Jane)

Can't Get Out of This Mood (Salvatore)

Bright Lights, Big City (Peggy)

Here Come the Man with the Jive (Jeffrey)

Sukiyaki (Bert Cooper)

Question about Peggy and Don

From Season 2, Don visits Peggy in the hospital, he says to her, " ...it'll shock you how much this never happened..." Does he know that she had a baby? does he know that that's why (I assume) she's being treated for mental health problems. Or is he just referring to her being in hospital,etc?
(I did ask this question on Peggy's thread, but notice no one's posted on their since August.)

Will Don Sing, Dance or Play?

So far, we've had several instances of characters on Mad Men sharing their other talents with us.

Trudy and Pete danced the Charleston.
Sally did two dances, folk style and ballet
Joan sang in French and played the accordion
Peggy sang a solo, and did the Twist
Father Gill sang a folk song and played the guitar
Paul and Jeffrey sang a barbershop duet
Joan and Paul demonstrated the Cha-Cha
Roger sang Stephen Foster
Anna's student played "In the Hall of the Mountain KIng" on the piano
Sal did an impression of a girl making a commercial
Freddy played an excerpt from a Mozart serenade

Who's next?

Why the kids like Gene...and why the parents don't.

In the recent episodes when Gene has been living at the Draper residence, I started to notice how his "parenting" skills were kicking in. He was teaching Sally and Bobby things about driving, honesty (I think he knew Sally took that $5 bill), classic literature, World War I, etc. Until he showed Bobby that war helmet, I don't think we've ever seen Bobby so animated! His facial expression at the sight of the helmet was priceless, and you could tell he was genuinely interested.

Gene seems to teach by doing, whereas Betty and Don seem to teach by the television...if you can consider that teaching! But when Grandpa Gene tries to teach the kids something or tell them the truth, it always seems to upset Betty and Don. Why is this? And how do you think Gene's living at the Draper's has affected the kids so far, or will affect them in the future?

Season 3/Episode 5 Opening Scene Predictions

Starting a separate thread for this so as to not disturb the real episode thread that is only for talk about the show. This is only for predictions of how the show will open in the very first scene. No prizes except "Fame & Fortune" on the MadMen blog, and superiority above your peers on here, both the ones you love, and love to hate! All kidding aside, just a fun contest, join in!

Let's talk about Connie and/or HoHo

Connie: Many viewers think the "Connie" that Don met in the bar of the country club is supposed to be Conrad Hilton. The biographical info the character gave Don does fit Conrad Hilton, but I think it's unlikely that the real Conrad Hilton would feel the need to hide in the bar at a wedding. By 1963, he was fabulously famous and wealthy, and I doubt that he would have any feelings of insecurity that the Connie in the bar expressed. Thoughts, anyone? (My husband thinks Don imagined the scene.) And what are your thoughts about the possibility that Conrad Hilton would use SC for advertising?

HoHo: Is he just a spoiled rich kid, or mentally disturbed? I think the latter. Pete, Pryce and the others' eager delight in taking his money is pretty disgusting. Horace Sr.'s painful conversation with Bert only just danced around the issue of HoHo's sanity: "If you don't take his money, someone else will." HoHo is probably bipolar or maybe even schizophrenic. Only Don had the integrity to turn him down. What does this say about SC?

So let's get back to talking about MM! (In my opinion, so far this season has lacked the interesting characters, detail and layers of the two previous seasons, and it's hard for people to come up with interesting threads. Help a sister out here!)

Two Gene Hofstadts... Sound Familiar?

At the very end of this week's episode "The Arrangements", the Hofstadt children discuss something that sent chills down my spine , though it was delivered as almost a throwaway line.

William mentions that the bank had trouble sorting out Gene's finances because there were actually two people named Gene Hofstadt in their record. It's almost as if someone with the exact same name, no relation, went in to register an account, not knowing of the other one's existence. Where have we heard about mistaken identities in the Mad Men world before?

Oh that's right - our main character, "Don Draper", isn't actually Don Draper at all! Although the original died in Korea, two Draper names exist in virtually unconnected lives. Folks, I do not think Gene Hofstadt's dual identity should be underplayed as a simple name coincidence, as I've seen in a previous topic here. I think it's entirely possible our Gene went through a similar experience as our Don, and kept that hidden from his whole family until his death.

Upon this realization, my mind jumped back to one of Gene's most intense moments from last season, when he yells at Betty: "That man has no people - you can't trust a man with no people!" Besides Gene's general "old world" viewpoints, what would lead him to such a strong distrust? My theory is that Gene sees right through Don because... he's not that unlike Don himself!

What do you all think?

Don's Pseudonyms

Everyone knows Dick Whitman is now living as Don Draper. We also know he used the name Tilden Katz at the gambling den in Six Months Leave. He used the name Bill Hofstadt flying down to Baltimore. Has he used the names of other real people that we know of? What names could he have used?

MM and Manchurian Candidate

Hi all, wondering if you have time to to go check out my recent post. I compared Don Draper to Laurence Harvey in Manchurian Candidate (and Betty as well, indirectly). While the stories have nothing common except time frame, what is coincidental is how similar they are in other ways. Made me wonder if Matt Weiner kind of had this vision of Manchurian Candidate as the epitome of the disaffected American in the 1960s and that image played in his selection of Jon Hamm. Would love to hear your thoughts on the similarities.
http://tinyurl.com/lxpbcz

BTW, browse here a lot even if not contributing. Love the comments.

http://tinyurl.com/lxpbcz

For Peggy Fans - How To Succeed in the Office

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxZ3A9giyIo

Eugene Hoffstadt #2

Does that seem odd to anyone? That there would be two guys, contemporary of each other, in the same town using the same bank with that name? Eugene was certainly a more common name then than it is today, but when you combine it with Hoffstadt? It doesn't seem like you'd find too many of those in the same town unless they were in some way related -- Jr. and Sr., grandfather and grandson, uncle and nephew, or, as in the case of George Foreman's family, brother and sister. LOL.

But Eugene Hoffstadt, the Chip N Dip of people (we got two)? Not sure that I buy that. Maybe Gene had one of those Liberty Capital Private Executive Accounts...

Season 3/Episode 5 Opening Scene Predictions

Your Post

Bring Midge Daniels back!

Hi fellow Maddicts,

I know there is a current thread on bringing Rachel back, but truly, in my opinion, I felt Midge was the BEST suited for Don, and matched him perfectly. They matched wits, humor and sexual chemistry. Midge was a bohemian artist who lived by her own code, and held no strings to anyone or anything. She was sexy, brash, funny, bright, and had a deep creative side. I loved her, and she still stands out as my favorite Don girl. I still refuse to believe that Don walked away from her, handing over his bonus check to her, and letting her whittle away her days with Roy, who was far beneath both Don and Midge.

Some favorite Midge lines:
"You know the rules: I don't make plans, and I don't make breakfast."
"[on the phone with Don] I want you to pull my hair, and ravish me, and leave me for dead."
"I like being your medicine."
"Don't bring that here. I'm serious, Don, don't talk to me about her. That makes me feel cruel. "
BRING MIDGE BACK!!! Don needs to be challenged again, and Midge was his perfect fit (again, just in my opinion).

FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME

Bobby probably has fetal alcohol syndrome.

"I'm Your Little Girl"

Betty is the absolute Princess of Narcisism. Did you notice how the director cut to her expanding belly after she delivered this line. She really does need more therapy. I can't understand whey Don is still with her. I'm sure he regrets marrying her which is whey he feels so tortured by his preent life. I think he cares about Betty, but he doesn't love her on a deeper more intimate level. I think he is still in love with Rachel Menchen. She is the only one he regrets losing. I empathized with Betty's character but, her daughter appears to have more strength and courage than she does. Makes me wonder how many people go to bed with a spouse they really don't love anymore.

sally

Your Post

Bring Rachel Menken back

I wish they'd have Rachel with Don again. That was some of the best of Don outside the office anyway I thought. Seemed like she really understood him. Maybe Don will leave SC - bringing Sal and maybe Peggy with him, and they could bring Rachel back that way?

Peggy the Hippie? Joan the Earth Mama?

When Peggy tried marijuana for the first time in Season 3 Episode 3, it seemed to foreshadow the changes in society that will be seen in the late 60s. Peggy and Joan seem to me to be the least tied down to their Sterling Copper roots.

Where do you think Peggy and Joan will end up in the late '60s?

Peter's baby

It seems strange that Peter acts as though he know nothing about his baby. He and Peggy act as though nothing ever happened. You would think that he would try and find the baby especially since he wife can't have children.

Sally's lisp

Sally and her lisp remind me of Cindy Brady....anyone agree?

A mini- interview with Stephanie Courtney

aka Marge the switchboard operator, aka Flo from Progressive Insurance:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20301774,00.html

Joan at her party

Referring to rowdy men, Joan responds, "Sounds like the men at my office," or something like that. Was anyone else surprised that she would make a reference to the rowdy men at work after what her husband did to her because of those men at her office? She seems to be very compliant, so it seemed weird to me that she would bring up such a controversial topic in front of her husband. I would think that talking about the men in the office would be the last thing shed want to bring up.

Jeffrey and Jane

Did anyone else think that Jeffrey, the drug dealer, bore a striking resemblance to a young Tom Cruise? He even sounded like Tom.

Also in an unrelated observation, could Jane be ill? When she visits the office, she tells Joan that she keeps losing weight. And at the party, I'm sure Jane was drunk, but could some illness be affecting her motor skills and balance? Just wondering . . .

Also, it was great to see so many of the characters show their hidden talents - dancing, playing the accordian, singing - fun!

It's a mans hat

Somebody please tell the producers to tell all male actors in Mad Men how to properly remove they're headwear. Anyone who knows anything about wearing hats knows this....never remove a hat by it's crown. You always lift the hat off by the brim. Just watch any movie from the 30's and 40's...when hats were really popular...and you'll see the proper way to remove a mans hat. You cetainly can tell Jon Hamm knows not how to doff a hat. He probably never had one like that to doff. JC

Betty, Betty, Betty...

At this point I am so unenthralled with this character that I wish someone would just shake some sense into her.

When Sally came to Betty's room and exclaimed that she had walked backwards all the way up the stairs, what did mama say? "ZIP"...not even acknowledging Sally's remarkable feat. Where is her understanding and compassion for her children. Her focus is always on herself. Oh, yes, she did buy some very nice riding boots for Sally, but we have yet to see Sally using them.

I find no warmth or charm in this character, except when she's faced with a stranger who wants to touch her belly bulge. Hmmm, wonder how she would explain that to Don???

First she wants to dance then she doesn't want to dance. All the while just looking bored. She didn't even try to have a conversation with one of Don's co-workers and his wife (can't recall their names) when they came up to their table.

This is her third pregnancy. You'd think by know she'd know that her lovely, lithe body will tend to expand and it will be uncomfortable.

She has no pleasant interaction with Bobby or Sally. Whenever she speaks to them it's always to scold or bark at them. I feel sorry for both of the children and even more so for Bobby who will become the "middle" child once the new baby gets here. In this episode he was no more than a shadow in the background.

I don't think it's just her hormones because she's pregnant. I think it's her true nature: icy, cold and after all, she is "Nordic"...

Just had to get that off my chest. Betty really irks me!

"My Name is Carla...."

Carla, the Drapers' housekeeper and now "elder caregiver" for Betty's father, Gene is such an unsung hero. She perseveres through Gene's lost money drama, gets the dinner on the table and basicaly lets old Gene know that she is running the show and he's just one of the kids as far as she's concerned. When he called her "Viola"(HIS former maid) and asked if she knew "Viola" it was then she informed him, "My name is Carla....we don't all know each other, Mr. Hofstead..." Her facial expression was priceless. I think he likes her...I think i saw kind of a twinkle in his eye. Better watch out, Carla!

$5 Sally

So what was the deal with Sally and the $5 bill? I know that $5 was worth a whole lot more in '63 then it is now (a nickle could still get you a cup of coffee then, but $5 is what you need to get one now...well, a good latte at least). Sally thought she could get away with taking the money and forgetful Granddad would never notice, but he did and wouldn't stop searching till it turned up.

But there's an interesting point that Matt W. made in a recent interview regarding Sal being caught with the bellboy. He said that "Sometimes you get away with it." Meaning, you do something you think is wrong, but you don't get caught.

Did Grandpa know Sally took the $5? Or didn't he? Sally looked really guilty and obviously expected to be called on the carpet for the crime, but it never happened. Did she "get away" with it or not? She didn't get to keep it, obviously, but she wasn't punished for the theft either.

Thoughts on Sally, Granddad and the missing $5?

Betty Draper's idea of pre-natal care...

http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/?bcpid=8803972001&bclid=34804835001&bctid=35606054001

Harry's wife

Anyone else see what's going on with Harry's wife? I thought that was one of the more understated things going on this episode. She wants to go chat with Harry's co-workers, is she interested in taking on the role of Sterling Cooper wife like Betty, or is she just bored and happy to be out? Little bit of both? I don't know.

And the way she looks at Pete and Trudy. She's clearly jealous. And when everyone stops and lets those 2 have the floor, after Cosgrove says next time he needs to bring a date, she just leaves in this subtle but disappointed or frustrated jealous way.

Of course Harry being a guy doesn't catch it and continues to just stand there.

Anyway what was up with that? Trouble on the horizon for Harry or just one of those things?

Peggy's Evolution

Olive: You're not thinking about your future.
Peggy: The thing is, I already have a job. I have my own office w/ my name on the door. And a secretary- that's you. I'm not scared... But... oh my god... you are.

Peggy then goes on to assure Olive that she need not worry... "I'm going to get everything I want.". She's just been inspired by her first pot high, to come up w/ some good ideas for the Bacardi Rum campaign, to the point where she breezily tells the boys they can go home. Think of how far Peggy has come since we first saw her in Mad Men's very first episode. She IS so real... the journey so many professional women took in the 60's-80's.
It was in this episode that I've realized that Peggy has evolved into one of my favorite female characters in all of TV & film. Elizabeth's Moss portrayal is so nuanced; touching, funny, subtle... infused w/ intelligence. And because of the excellent writing, what a fully-rounded character she has to work with! Watching tonight's episode, I realized something: Most of my favorite female characters on televsion are harder-edged, often in traditionally male professions, ala Holly Hunter in "Saving Grace." Joan, Peggy & Betty are in office jobs, mostly wearing dresses & doing things more typical women do. But they are written as whole people. Even a generation later, I can identify w/ them, largely because in spite of being more typically feminine, they are still written as WHOLE PEOPLE!!!

So few women's character's are written as fully realized human beings, especially when it comes to sexuality just being part of who they are, not the defining identifier. They're usually written as seen through male eyes.
We do see how the men view Peggy, Joan & Betty. But especially in the case of the first two ladies, we also get the women's POV of their OWN lives.
Thank you, writers.

Joan and the Doctor...How Long Can It Last?

So, ladies and gents, how long do we give this little tinder box before it blows sky high? Can denial keep things afloat for a month...a year...fifty years? Or are we looking at a much closer explosion?

And if it does end, how do we think it will? Annulment? Divorce? 'European' Divorce? Pre- or Post- kids? With the Dr or Joan giving the boot?

Hmmm....I'm curious to hear you all's thoughts!

Does Roger really love Jane?

If Jane's depth of character really is as shallow as it is portrayed, then I can only conclude Roger is going through a mid-life crisis. Then Don would be right and Roger is foolish.

A boy named Dick

I'm sure this was already discussed in the open thread but I needed to bring up that whole scene with Don's real mother. Is it not absolutely fantastic that he was named Dick because his mother wanted to chop his father's off?
How has this legacy shaped Don? We already know his father's member got his mother "in trouble" and Don's member has certainly gotten him in a lot of trouble.

10 Things That Suck About Being Joan

. It takes you 10 times longer the any other cast member to walk across the office.
2. You think evaluating your "strengths" in the mirror while wearing nothing but a paper bag is a normal. In fact, you recommend it to female coworkers.
3. You feel like Shirley MacLaine's character in The Apartment. She attempted suicide. You also feel like Marilyn Monroe. She succeeded.

Keep reading...

Jon Hamm on Don Draper

..... http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/08/23/mad-men-preview-jon-hamm/

'Mad Men' preview -- with a side of Jon Hamm!
by Jeff Jensen

This interview sheds some interesting light on the effect (and timing) of Betty's pregnancy on the Draper marriage.

Jon Hamm spoke recently in another interview about Don Draper's hollow declarations in the S2 post-shower scene, in the living room, right before he gets kicked out. He talked about the fact that, basically, Don was telling Betty (and himself) a hollow lie. I thought it was a great scene, but now I consider it an acting feat, to be able to portray that duality, with the crocodile tears and emoting, and all. He was saying all the right words, with the correct expressions and inflections, but somehow it missed the mark, and that wasn't lost on Betty, either.

Here, Jon talks about the reconciliation after returning from California, which moment between them was also was somewhat hollow and rather missed the mark, and what it could have been, were it not for the baby.

(There are no real spoilers in this interview.)

Roger's Dialogue Channeling Billy Wilder Films

My favorite part of the show has always been Roger's dry, cynical wit. It occured to me while watching the elevator scene in 302 that the writers are channeling Billy Wilder and his co-screenwriter I. A. L Diamond. If you think about some of the writing in Some Like It Hot or The Fortune Cookie you may see a resemblance. In fact that exchange way back between Joan and Roger discussing the film The Apartment (written by Wilder and Diamond) has Roger spouting dialogue that could well be recited by Wilder favorite, Walter Matthau. "We don't even have a dog." And of course the Roger and Peggy exchange is in an elevator, where much of the action takes place in The Apartment.

Joan's Marital Status

Many of you have talked about Joan's fiancee. She was married at Christmas. I remember her stating that they were planning a Christmas wedding. It is now in the spring. Roger corrected himself and referred to her as "Mrs. Harris". She also said her husband doesn't want her to travel on the subway.

Tired of Betty's Whining

Betty's charachter is part of the reason why I enjoy this show so much because she represents how upper middleclass housewives wanted to have a perfect life. But, really another season of hearing her speak in her baby talk and acting like a spoiled princess is too much. Please show Joan in the next epidose standing up to her husband because im tired of watching weak, whiniey betty draper. She even had the audacity to refer to herself as an "orphan: in season 2. A married, adult woman with two children calling herself an orphan. Betty needs to revisit her therapist for a few more sessions. She's more delusional than Don.

peggy

Ive noticed that this season Peggy has chaged her whole attitude. she went from sweet to more serious. i think shes trying to have people take her more seriously and maybe shes trying to discover how to act. what do you think?