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The lead-ups to Episode 12 mentioned "Peggy's taste in men proves questionable." But now that we've seen the episode, I fail to see how the episode depicted this. Duck didn't say or do anything that would make him seem bad or would have Peggy second-guessing her relationship with him, and aside from flighty roommate's comment on his aftershave, nobody else is questioning Peggy's taste. Perhaps the preview blurb is foreshadowing something that will happen later?
I found the scenes with Trudy and Pete, hooked on the news, pretty fascinating. I'm curious about what other people thought. Here's what I saw:
It starts with Pete and Trudy falling into their usual pattern. Whenever Pete gets bad news, this is what happens (more or less):
(1) Pete throws a mini-temper tantrum in front of Trudy where he rants (justly or not) about how unfair it all is that he's not appreciated or promoted.
(2) Trudy checks to make sure he didn't commit a serious faux pas (like throw this same tantrum in front of his bosses). Assured that Pete didn't shoot himself in the foot, Trudy then lets him kevetch while saying something akin to "Poor baby! Those mean, nasty people don't know how lucky they are to have you!"
(3) Pete then makes some histrionic statement about quitting or doing something equally dramatic, and Trudy, while remaining totally on his side and sympathetic, talks him out of it. Return to status quo.
This time, however, it didn't go like that, did it? It went off track when Pete threw in comments (true or not) that made the people at work seem disrespectful of JFK's assassination. From that point on, Trudy's perspective on Pete's situation changes. The longer they watch the news together, the more it changes.
By the end, instead of trying to talk him out of doing what he wildly proposes to do, she's urging him to do it, even adding in modifications ("take your clients with you...").
What I'm curious about is (1) why do you think Trudy broke out of their usual pattern and became a revolutionary (as it were) in favor of Pete fighting the establishment rather than giving it another college try? Is this another case of JFK's assassination "waking" someone up? (2) Pete talks a good game, but we know he's not an alpha male however much he may want to be. He'd rather imagine doing radical things then do them (even in season 1 he didn't really want to go through with is threat to expose Don--Don forced the issue). Do you think, at the end when Trudy is urging him to leave that he's regretting what he said? I get the feeling that he expected the pattern to go as usual and is taken by surprise by Trudy.
Betty and Henry? What is the attraction? As sneaky and whoremongering as Don is ( one referred to lovingly as a Ladies Man) it truly angered me when Henry told Betty he would marry her. (I assume that he was assuring her in 1963 speak of a safety net for a sexual affair) . What does she see in this guy? He's smooth and has a degree of power and position but he is twice her age and has a daughter that appears to be Betty's age. It's obvious she has had it with Don Draper. I would like to think there is something still there. I don't think it has as much to do with the affairs that Betty suspects. Perhaps it has more to do with the small lies (not that hiding your true identity is a small lie) that made Don's kiss meaningless. It was Betty's generic moment. In Italy she felt sexy and modern and I truly thought the fire was back for them but in the morning it was back to good old Bets -Here Bets it's a charm for your charm bracelet, Mother of my kids- instead of here is string of pearls and while we're here I want to kiss you at the coliseum. Betty has married well and lives in West Chester and wants for nothing but spends her days watching TV while Don unpredictably comes and goes. There is seemingly no interest at all in what is meaningful to Betty or a complete lack of comprehension on Don's part that his wife could require anything more than the home he has provided for her. She is a trophy and he (although I think he truly will be destroyed when she leaves) he won't get it until it is too late. It could be that Henry asks her about her and truly seems interested. I think she so craves being a considered human being that any man that gives her that becomes attractive (as women don't think, in terms of what attracts them, as men do). As an aside there are like 20 posts on here about trolls and bickering and alternative posting sites and blah blah blah. It's tedious to scroll through to get to posts about the show.
Wow ...who is this guy? I bet he is on the cover of the next GQ mag! I hope to see more of him!!!
Seems like a good number of people think that Don would try to leave Betty penniless and prehaps even take the kids if she asks for a divorce. I don't. I am no Don fan, but he does take pride in providing for his family and I think that even with his twisted morals, if she insists on a divorce, he will keep providing for her and would not want to take the kids from her. Underneath it all, he has a very low opioion of himself and there is no way that he'd think he could do a better job with them than she could . The $ in the drawer - lots of people assume it's the 500,000 dollars. I am sure most of that is in the bank. Don keeps some out as an escape fund for himself and proabably also becasue he is a child of the depression and doesn't trust banks. Remember, Betty said he dioesn't understand money. When he ran away to CA, he seemed willing to consider going back to selling cars. It's not all about the money with him, its the status family/wife.
Ok..I am a Betty sympathizer. I have backed my home girl since day 1. I have understood her character and identified with her more than any other on a TV show. It almost makes me feel silly.
My issue this week is how can she just flip the switch "I don't love you, Don" so quickly? As soon as Francis says he intends to marry her, she jumps the fence and all of a sudden wants to ditch DD.
I will give further comments in the posts....
Will Roger tire of his child bride and realize that Joan is a real woman?
After the teacher's late night prank calls are hung up on by Don and she starts appearing at his home, work, and even his meetings, I would like Betty to divorce his philandering ass. Then I would like to see her marry a man who really appreciates her and treats her like a queen. Or I would like to see her get a job and start taking care of her family by herself. Either would satisfy me.
I am not sure what future Matt Weiner has planned for Don and his teacher, but if he wants to bring her back at some time in the next few years, he has a perfectly good and plausible excuse. There is a very good chance that Bobby will be in her class some day. I can't remember what grade she teaches, but I can certainly imagine Bobby telling his father some night at dinner(assuming Don asks him how school went that day) "I'm going to have Miss Farrell for my teacher next year. Sally says she is really nice." The parent/teacher conferences will take on a whole new meaning.
Hello dearest Maddicts,
I've since watched the last episode 'The Hobo & The Gypsy' twice now, which what I normally like to do, to take it all in, spin it around in my brain a bit, and then reflect on all the little nuances, the growth in the characters, plot lines, etc. There was SO much to love in this last episode, it was harder for me to digest it in one piece...and so, just like my meals, I took smaller bite sized pieces, and mulled a few of the ingredients on my palette.
One thing I keep coming back to is Miss Farrell, or Suzanne, if you will.
Leave it to Weiner and his writing talent to create tension and build up, in regards to someone I summed up to be a 'bunny boiler'. The little things she said that made my head spin around, the little possessive inserts towards Don, the unknown caller at the Drapers that resulted in a hang-up, the way she narrowed her eyes at Don and wrapped her arms around him possessively....that was it. I was sold: hook, line and sinker, she was the perfect storm that wreak havoc over Don's life.
But she didn't.
In fact, in the last pillow talk session they had, she pulled away from Don, telling him she walked into it with her eyes wide open, and to let the feeling pass. What threw me for a loop was that it was DON reeling her back in, telling her HE didn't want it to pass, and asking her to take a week off from work, so that they could spend time together!
From that conversation, and when she ducked down in the front seat, as Don went inside, what worried me is that she might come up to the house and look inside the kitchen window, thus catching Betty's eye, where the fit would REALLY hit the shan for Don. But I quickly dismissed that, as the secret box scene was already a huge event and enough drama for the moment...but I did wonder, while all that was going on inside, what Suzanne would do...would she leave a note, wait a bit longer...what would she do??
Again, I was happily surprised to see she slipped out of the car when the coast was clear, and headed home. I felt that she knew something big was going on inside, and it was best if she not complicate the situation.
When Don ended it with her (well, he said "for now")over the phone, I thought, though she was tearful, and it was pretty clear to me Suzanne had fallen in love with Don, she stepped away gracefully. There wasn't a fight, or any big dramatic scene. I loved that she asked Don if he was ok. A selfish person, as I initially thought her to be, would never ask "Are YOU ok?", but they would be simply concerned with how this would affect them.
I was really impressed with Suzanne, and I've rethought my whole opinion of her, that she's actually a good person, who is probably lonely, and longs for the type of life that Betty and the other mothers around her have.
I'm still shaking my head at the 180 degree shift Suzanne took in my whole estimation of her!
What are your thoughts about her, Maddicts? I'm curious to hear your feedback on this!
http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2009/10/complexity_beauty_and_the_unde.html
I read about all of the sympathy for Betty on this message board. Let's not forget that she had her affairs as well. And I do mean that in plural. Kissing another man counts as infidelity in my eyes. Don is walking around thinking he has this innocent child-like woman at home raising his children, when Betty has such a devious, hidden side. I will never forget how she set up her friend to have an affair. She has her good moments, but Don needs to know that he isn't the only one that has disrespected their marriage. After watching the last episode, I was shocked how cold and unaffectionate she was when Don was crying. What woman who loves her man wouldn't reach for him and hold him in her arms. That was Don in his weakest moment and all she could do was lay a hand on his shoulder like a distant stranger. This marriage is as empty as it can be with two self absorbed characters. I like the new storyline with Roger and Annabelle a lot more than watching Don and Betty fake their marriage.
Betty made/sewed those Halloween Costumes!!!!!!!!!!
Wow! What riveting television this past episode. Betty took no prisoners when she took Don to task for his long tenure of deception! That scene was powerful.
Don stops cheating on his wife and he concentrates on his family and career. Roger can pick up where he left off with Joan but only a more serious romance that leads to marriage. The child Roger married goes back to Trenton. We see more of Roger's mother. We see more of Bert. The limeys go away and Duck drowns along with Peggy.
If Betty and the kids hadn't returned from Philly early, Don and Suzanne would've been cozying up in Norwich. Now I know that Don can skip off from work for days on end, but how easy would it be for a schoolteacher in those days? And even if she could get away from work, I thought it kind of weird that Suzanne -- who despite her faults seems to truly love nurturing children's minds -- would cut work and leave town and miss Halloween, such a magical and important day in a kiddie calendar.
Maybe some of you are interested in this, maybe not, but here is a link to follow all the Mad Men on twitter at one location: http://www.madmentwitter.com
Everybody would appreciate if for Peggy to be dropped from the show between seasons. No cause to explain her absence of kill off the character. Just let her be gone bye-bye. The Peggy character was an attempt which has failed. Don, upwardly mobile spawn of a trailertrash redneck and a gas-station hooker, wishes to mock Sterling Cooper by infiltrating a fellow low-class, uneducated pretender. He chooses Peggy because she personifies the downscale prole -- bluecollar urban high school, un-stylisn clothes and shoes, home-perm hair, drugstore makeup, slightly lumpen physique. The casting and wardrobe may have worked all too well. Peggy remains ineffably outerborough, eternally secretarial. She belongs in that huge windowless clerical corral so superbly presented by Mike Nichols in "Working Girl." Or waiting on the counter at Guido's All-Night Diner. But never in a window office in Midtown. Just go back across that Brooklyn Bridge, Peggy. The harder you try, the more incongruous you are.
Its about time she laid the smack down on that whiney loser she married.
I read a comment on one of these a while ago comparing Don to a famous character in American fiction. My mind slips me on the name and the author but it is a very well known story and the comparison to Don is spot on.
This character's parents died and he abandoned his past and reinvented himself as a success. Basically an embodiment of the most extreme example of the American dream. Does ANYONE know who I'm talking about if I could figure this out it would give my mind a huge rest, thanks.
Don's confession to Betty is getting all the attention--with good reason. But isn't it interesting to note the contrast between that confession and the one Greg made to Joan?
Don's confession was big, dramatic, and forced by Betty. Greg, on the other hand, casually volunteered the information to Joan that his father had a nervous breakdown. He then flippantly said something like, "I can't believe I never told you that before."
The wives' reactions differed, too. Betty couldn't help but to comfort Don about his brother. The next day, Betty and Don acted much more considerately toward each other, almost as one would with an acquaintance.
Greg and Joan, on the other hand, were operating on different planes. Greg whined, and Joan snapped and hit him over the head with a vase.
And let's not forget that a few episodes back, Pete "confessed" his most recent infidelity to Trudy without saying a word, and this seemed to bring them closer.
What do you think all of these confessions mean for the characters' relationships?
For the love of Paul's beard, I need to know what happened to Sal.
Any other plot lines eating away at people? What gets closure and what doesn't?
How long did she wait in teh car before realizing that Don wasn't available for comment????
I noted a lot of questioning about who's the hobo and who is the gypsy (outside of the costumed kids); some suggested Suzanne and her brother--but her absent brother (1) wasn't in the episode and (2) isn't a hobo. A hobo wants to be on the move. Suzanne's brother is forced to be on the move because of his epilepsy. Which is why I'd vote the Hobo and Gypsy as being Don and Suzanne. Suzanne is attractive to Don because she is a free spirit like he is, but she's much more "exotic" and spiritual, more the gypsy. Of course, there's also a possibility that the title suggests Betty confrontation of Don about his first "wife" Anna--a tarot card reader.
The hobo, however, is most certainly Don, as he has been labeled so, metaphorically speaking, from the first time we see him learning lessons about the hobo code from an actual hobo. But the show went even farther this particular episode to make sure we got the connection.
After his confession to Betty, he is washing up and he looks at himself in the mirror. We feel this is the first time he's looking at himself and seeing the real him not the Don Draper mask he tries to wear 24/7. The man he sees in the mirror has a very heavy 5 O'Clock shadow. Just like we see in old Hollywood movie stereotypes of Hobos. Just the way bobby has his face done up for Halloween.
The gypsy may be a question, but the Hobo is Don.
I just came across something about St Margaret of Cortona and it states she is the patron saint of:
The falsely accused; hoboes; homeless; insane; orphaned; mentally ill; midwives; penitents; single mothers; reformed prostitutes; third children; tramps.
I just thought it was interesting as it sorta ties in to various characters of Mad Men...and of course there is our Margaret "Peggy" Olsen. Peggy is from a Catholic family, perhaps she was named after St Margaret of Cortona!
Gay.
Mad Men takes another journey into the absurd after Joanie's little boy, "my son, the doctor," (this IS after all, how the character is written and played) first wants to be a surgeon, then a shrink, and now, on to a different playtime game: let's play SOLDIERS!! Yay! I can be a surgeon AND a soldier at the same time! Yippee!!
In their never-ceasing quest to portray straight white males as corrupt or overgrown juveniles, we are supposed to believe this bizarre turn of events. "Sure, I may have to go to Nam, but that will be over soon..." or such childish words to that effect. Thus, the good people of the creative team want us to believe that this "kid," who managed to graduate med school, convince the all-knowing, all-seeing, wisest of wise, Queen Joan, that he was "the one," is now going to join the Army out of a desperate and peurile desire to be play with his favorite toys, uh, that is, become a surgeon.
On another topic, Don becomes more and more corrupt, while Cooper, perhaps the MOST corrupted soul on the planet, shows some "integrity," by refusing the advances of an old flame? Hah? Betts, find Don's "stuff,"??? Is this, "Mad Men," or "Days of Our Lives"??? Gee, you think Luke and Laura will get back together again?!??
So Betty wasn't just sitting with that box and drinking wine. She actually went out and had another set of keys made. I am so proud of her! In the scene where Betty confronted Don, she seemed older to me, more like a grown woman and less like a spoiled daddy's girl. She was truly a woman wondering just who this man is she has suddenly found herself married to. Great job by January Jones.
Wow, I could watch that rat doctor get conked on the head all night! How satisfying was that? Roger still loves her, and I think he is just finding that out. It wasn't Mona or Jane he was thinking about when he told Annabelle she wasn't "the one" for him.
I hate all this needless introduction of new characters when we've been waiting so long for the threads of other stories to be continued. Comments?
http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/mad-men-power-rankings-week-10-enjoy-the-world-as-it-is-margaret-theyll-change-it-and-never-give-you.php
I think Don has met his match with the teacher. I sense she is fatal attraction material. All of the defensive character attacks in her "Prelude to a Kiss" that she new would be inevitable. There is the implication of some deep rooted emotional baggage there. This isn't a casual adult thing like Don had with strangers far away cities or Jimmy's wife who knew the score. This is in his backyard with a woman who is obviously not about to be cast aside. Don is vulnarable. He is succumbing to compromise left and right. Look at the way he allows Connie to overstep professional bounds. He responds to him like a child to a father desperately seeking approval. Its disconcerting to witness and it won't be long before it compromises the respect of the young ambitious elements of SC. Betts is longing for glamour and excitement and the charm bracelet trinket Don gave her demonstrated volumes. But this young teacher, Don is weak and in over his head.
Since next week's episode deals with a party Roger is planning to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Sterling Cooper, it seems likely to me that he might perhaps contact former valued employees and invite them to the party. Who would he value more than our own dear Joan? I want Joan back at Sterling Cooper, and I want her free of the rat doctor. What do you think Maddicts? Could this be an opportunity for Joan to find herself back in the employ of Sterling Cooper? I personally think they should be begging her to come back, but then I have always been a fan of Stupefyin' Joan. She puts every other woman in the shade, including Betty.
Just for fun, (my list is meant to be silly-- a lot of these aren't historically accurate) what could our favorite MM characters dress up as for Halloween?
Don = Two-Face from Batman
Betty = Princess Grace
Peggy = naughty Catholic schoolgirl uniform or a ballet dancer with a baseball bat ("home run ballerina")
Pete = Don, because he so wants to be him
Trudy = 1920's flapper. Charleston!
Gudrun = Mary Poppins. She can hit Pete with her giant umbrella if he comes near her again.
Sal = Ann-Margret
Roger = a knight. He got 3 sheets to the wind and tried it on.
Bert = samurai or ninja
Pryce = belly dancer/snake charmer
Lois = Lizzie Borden
Joan = Jessica Rabbit (the resemblance is uncanny)
Dr. Rapist = Butterfinger candy bar
Sally = Laila Ali
Bobby = a ghost (he's so quiet)
baby Gene = a pig in a blanket
Grandpa Gene = Julius Caesar
Connie = he can't decide whether he wants to be a cowboy or an astronaut
Miss Farrell = something involving a straitjacket
This season, several of our beloved characters have been caught with their pants down (figuratively, for the most part). Below is a list of pants-down moments. What others have you noticed? What do you think is the significance of this trend thematically?
- Don seeing Sal with the bellboy
- Carla noticing the guilty look on Betty's face after Henry's visit
- Pete's neighbor confronting him about the incident with the nanny
- Bert using Don's not-so-secret identity as leverage to get Don to sign the contract
- Conrad calling Don out for not meeting his expectations about Hilton on the moon
- Pete discovering Joan's post-SC employment, and Joan questioning whether the stained dress belonged to Trudy
Betty cut things short with Henry because she would have to climb down from the pedestal to consummate the relationship. That would mean sacrificing what little power she has. Henry said it himself: when you don't have the power, delay.
We've seen time and again that Betty loves to be admired. Others have noted the resemblance between renaissance paintings and scenes of Betty on the fainting couch. A painting can be admired, but not held and caressed.
Years ago, Don probably admired Betty the way Henry does now--the way he role-played in Rome. But Betty made a real life with Don, and things didn't turn out as she'd fantasized. She's scared to have that happen with Henry.
I'm not saying that Henry and Don are alike, or that Betty will never let down her guard physically with Henry. I just think that Betty gets a lot of satisfaction--and a sense of power--out being a queen with a courtly lover.
More on Joan, Sal, Peggy - those story lines are interesting. But 1 more affair from Don? I get it, he runs whenever he's threatened, upset, blah, blahh. not asking to change his character, but does it have to be the main story line every week? Betty'srelationship with Henry is more interesting because it's a NEW STORY LINE.
Matty Weiner acknowledged that Dan Draper was partly inspired by the real Draper Daniels, the creative head of Leo Burnett in Chicago, in the 1950's. This was written by his wife.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2009/I-Married-a-Mad-Man/
I'm sure this has probably been mentioned in the past. January Jones/Betty is a classic Hitchcock beautiful icy blond. Think Grace Kelly, Kim Novak, Tippi Hedren, Eva Marie Saint....she would have been cast for sure by him for sure, back in the day, don't you think?!!
As we know, Don has a thing for independent, career-minded women (Rachel, Midge, Bobbie, etc.). I think Betty's efforts to save the reservoir have played a large part in reawakening Don's attraction to Betty (that gorgeous black dress and Roman-fountain hairdo didn't hurt either). Ironically, this interest of Betty's thats driving Don towards her is driving her away from Don and towards Henry Francis.
Here I was thinking Pete had a somewhat redemptive character arc and he goes and does something awful again. I guess we can at least give him credit for feeling guilty about it? Why does Trudy put up with him? The "previously on Mad Men" showed the infamous part where he essentially tells her he doesn't love her and doesn't want to go with her to Rehobeth...so is that still true? Ahhh why Pete, why?
Who knew? Or have I missed something? Betty morphs into a Blonde Sofia Loren and is fluent in Italian.....where oh where did she learn these skills? I gotta say that I LOVED watching Don's consternation as she knocked those two suave Romeos' into next week and she did it with her own cool style! Her husband rediscovered some of her major mojo for sure.
Apparently, Twitter is not the only networking site to host the fictional characters of Mad Men.
C'mon, Maddicts. I'm at a loss. After this last episode (and all that has led us to this point), I'm tempted to dismiss all these jokers as despicable. It doesn't help that many of them are working in a much maligned profession. I mean, they push death with no compunctions in the form of war machines and cigarettes. Money and power are their gods. Appearances are everything. They are all liars and manipulators, or worse. Can someone help me find a reason to wish good things for them? Is any one of them redeemable?
It looks like Don is gearing up for a fight with Roger. I feel more than a bit apprehensive about this. Both men are formidable opponents. Don can be ruthless and cunning, but Roger is childish, vindictive and "does not like to be judged." I don't know which one would be worse to have as an enemy. We're accustomed to seeing Don be the victor in all his combat situations, but lately that seems to have changed.
Both Roger and Don endured humbling experiences during the most recent episodes. Don wasn't promoted and Roger was forgotten - accidentally, or was he being given a message? To heal their wounded pride, both men have to take action of some sort. Don was trying to reestablish control at work by not signing the contract and taking out his anger at Peggy. He failed with both attempts. Bert blackmailed him and Peggy is establishing independence from Don.
What is Roger going to do to reestablish himself as a power at SC? How much time is needed to schmooze with the really big accounts? Not much I think. Personally I would like to see Roger actually pay attention to his employees, to at least try to create a bond of loyalty should Don ever attempt to jump ship in the future and take them with him, but that is never going to happen. Roger's too much of a snob. Though it would be hilarious to see him trying to make conversation at a series of lunches with his own staff. "So, Peggy... Olson, is that a Swedish name?" "Sal, have I ever met your wife?"
What should Roger do to make himself a player in the firm, instead of a person "penciled in" on a transparency for the overhead projector?
The second Duck Phillips made his shocking re-entry into the world of Mad Men, I knew he was about to become a major villain. I love the way his character's downfall has been portrayed over two seasons. We were introduced to him as the recovered alcoholic, turning the corner by trying to run a successful ad firm's accounts, but slowly, things began to go wrong. As conflict and disappointment creeps up, Duck slumps into depression, and as any addict can attest, is tempted by the devil. And unfortunately, because Mr. Phillips isn't a strong person, the devil wins.
And now, fresh off the heels of his being removed from SC, his false-confidence has turned him into a "Jekyl/Hyde" of sorts. The cleverly disguised phone call to Pete was just the beginning, but I had no idea how far they'd take it. Seducing Peggy, the literal symbol of innocence and the roots of Feminism in our story, has to be the most devilish thing I can imagine him doing.
I certainly hope good wins over evil in this one, and Peggy comes to her senses, because that was probably one of the most horrific things I've seen on this series, and let's be honest, we've been through a lot (Don's power play on Bobbie at the restaurant, and Guy losing a foot, come to mind). But I don't think we've seen just how low Duck Phillips is willing to stoop to get what he's got to be ultimately looking for: revenge on Don Draper.
Props to Mark Moses for playing this role so well!
No contact with Roger?...Say it ain't so. How can we lose those after victory drinking bouts? Roger's waxing philsophical over what women want... He and Don dueling over oysters...Roger taking one for the road...Thats my car...Lights...No, no, they can't take that away from us...
The way Rog drops bald hints...
The way they sip whiskey...
The way they love to spar...No, no they can't take that away from we...
The way Don slapped him down...
The way Rog rode Mirabelle in...
The way he called Don "Rochester".. No, no they can't take that away from we...
The way Don seemed amused...
The moves Rog put on Betty...
The way they make us howl...No, no they can't take away Slattery...
No, they can't take Roger away from we...
It's Batman without Robin...Beatrice without Benedict...Matt Dillon without Festus...Henry Frankenstein without Praetorius...Lewis without Clark...Jefferson without Adams...Burns without Allen...Crosby without Hope...Lucy without Desi...
The lure of orange hair...
The bottom of the glass you couldn't see...
The way he called Pete Paul...No, no they can't take that away from we... No, they can't take that away from we...
Did anyone else think this: did Betty remind you of a Renaissance painting?
It was a theme done over and over with a similiar piece of furniture and the beautiful siren lying prone, to be admired. That's exactly what we see with Betty, an illusion to a Renaissance painting. Look at the first shot of her, the soft lighting, the comfort and contentment of her, her arm behind her head not exactly but similar to the idea of posing.
Posing for us the viewer.
That's her character. Self-centered Betty lying there for all of us to admire. Betty enjoying the admiring of Henry, the man showing her attention. Betty, the former model, enjoying being adored, an object of beauty waiting to be painted.
It really is all about attention with Betty.
A few episodes ago, Miss Farrell, in her slightly tipsy phone call to the Draper residence, engaged in overt flirtation with Don. Now, in episode 7, she seems offended by what she takes as a come-on from him. Which is it that she wants: his attention, or for him to leave her alone?
Will the real Miss Farrell please stand up?
The hitchhikers for coming up with such a convoluted robbery plan that really shouldn't succeed, or Don, for allowing it to succeed anyway. "Pay me with drugs? Why sure! And I'd love to party with you in your motel room!"
I mentioned this in another post but could it be that the teacher's strange behavior masks an affair between her and Don? Her strangely bitter remarks to him and the fragments between them...The strange phone call...The "Old Kentucky Home" end shot that seemed to show Don (or someone) in an embrace...Could it be that she and Don in public are feigning not to know each other while carrying on in private? And this one time, to confuse us, Matt and co are not showing us what's going on?
After Conrad's strange conversation with Don, I can see where Paris (assuming a relation) gets it from. What was all that? And this need to rope Don in with a contract?
I await the episode where Conrad and Burt welcome Don to ...The Club.
Betty seems pretty casual about Don's overnight absence...And his "fender-bender" injury. Perhaps the fainting couch has affected her?
And the teacher? What the heck? She seems to be obsessed with Don rather than vice-versa, given the earlier episode where she had that bizarre near-faint while talking to him by phone. Apparently, despite the "Old Kentucky Home" ending she and Don are not yet involved outside perhaps a mutual fantasy but it's still very weird....In fact Burt, Betty, the teacher...All around weird behavior on MM tonight.
After 3 years of cheering Don's independence on and seeming to be perfectly happy risking the Brit buyout suddenly Burt is putting the screws and how to Dick/Don, even threatening him in a rather unmistakable way? Surely Hilton can't be that big a deal... Very strange change in Mr. C. I suppose it could be Burt protecting his "boy" Roger but it still doesn't quite seem like our Burt.
If photograher Diane Arbus found herself at Sterling Cooper in 1963, would she find any interesting subjects to photograph?
If so, who do you think she would snap? Personally, I think she would find Joan and Peggy together a possibility.
OK, I realize we are just to accept this as part of the plot, but I don't see all that much creative genius-ing going on. We have seen Don sleeping on the job, ducking out to have illict affairs, oops, I mean going to the printers, and powering down a lot of alcohol. He pulled a rabbit out of the hat with "Lucky Strike, it's toasted, and the Carousel was good, but that was about all. Or am I missing something?? Exactly what is it about him that the Brits are studying?
I am having the hardest time believing that Dick Whitman's non-biological mother wasn't a nice woman who loved Dick and tried to raise him as her own son. True, not the best of circumstances, that she was given Dick but she had a child. If you have been adopted or know a parent who has adopted you will understand that a child becomes yours the day you accept him into your life.
I call her no biological because the word "stepmother " connotes evil and I want to believe that Abigail was good to Dick and loved him. Archie was mean and hateful to Dick because he was a mean man (see Hobo Code episode, Season One) but Abigail...I never saw her say or do anything. So someone tell me I'm wrong.
If you want to see your favorite train wreck - i mean secretary - stay at SC - then post here!
...in a season of MadMen where bare feet are one of the most important symbols? (That's not me, by the way, That's Matt who said: " the bare feet, the first image (of the episode) is the story of the season in a way."
One thing is sure, Guy's loss of a foot does put everyone else's problems in perspective. Joan can probably deal with her losses better knowing that things could be worse, and Don not getting the job he expected likely sees that he's got it pretty good. Guy, after all, doesn't just lose a foot and the job he hoped to have overseeing SC, but, according to his fellow Brits, he loses all that he's been molded, shaped, geared and trained to be. He can't even, according to them, use his one great gift because he can't walk a golf course.
His entire identity, future and purpose in life was lost when he lost that foot.
Does anyone else hate her character fro being a b*&^# all the time?
This has been bugging me from the first season. Other than Sally's birthday party, we never see a neighborhood kid, much less a bunch of them, either playing in the yard with Sally and Bobby or popping into the house to retrieve a toy left behind, or use the bathroom, etc. I realize they aren't going to have a bunch of children around on a regular basis but once a season to have a friend or two sharing a glass of milk and sandwioh at lunch time would not be outrageous. Sometimes it seems like Ossinning is in outer Mongolia. Sally and Bobby ARE part of the Baby Boom generation but you'd hardly know it from their neighborhood.
Wow, it's been forever since I posted on here!
Sorry that my post is an episode behind, and thus is about something likely already discussed, but I just had a thought about Pete's conversation with Hollis in the elevator. Yes, it's plain to see that Hollis was understandably uncomfortable with the topic at hand, but do you think it could also be that Hollis isn't comfortable with Pete himself? I ask because in the last season, Hollis initiates a casual conversation with Don and Peggy regarding the death of Marilyn Monroe (and reveals that, yes, he likely does follow baseball as Pete guesses in their own conversation, or at least feels for Joe DiMaggio) In retrospect, it seems like the first conversation would be highly unlikely -- a black "servant" offering his unsolicited opinion and pity for a white sex symbol to two white "superiors", one of which is a white female -- UNLESS they were all pretty cool with each other and had established that kind of rapport. Perhaps in all their years of working in the same building, Pete has never really talked to Hollis until that point.
I would like to add "Pulling a Sadler" to the lexicon:
Definition: doing the absolute most inappropriate at exactly the wrong time. See Comments Below
Peggy has always been the go-getter, the hard worker who never lets anything faze her. I've always seen her as unexpectedly strong. So any thoughts as to why she fainted at the sight of blood (into Pete's arms)? There must be something symbolic here, I'm just wondering what it might be.
Thirteen very astutely posited that Lane Pryce's name is an apt description of his 'way'. He counts price above other business considerations. His job is to steer down a fiscally sound 'lane'-- trim and save, don't take risks.
My theory is that the name Don Draper also offers a key to that character's behavior. According to Merriam-Webster, the word 'draper' means a dealer in cloth and sometimes in clothing and dry goods. Think about cloth, how it is used to cover things.
We know Don's an excellent salesman who subscribes to David Ogilvy's noted theory about the nature of advertising.
We also know he's a Don Juan!
Anyone want to take a stab at the name "Dick Whitman"?
I admire this woman now more than ever. First, she's informed that hubby Greg "has no brains in his fingers" Harris will NOT receive the antcipated residency....that she will have to keep working. This comes as no real surprise to the rest of us, but Joan bore the bad news. She appears so cool and calm as the Brits descend upon SC, on what is to be her last day at work. The pressure must have been unimaginable! Yet her greatest moment takes place on the floor, drenched in blood, attending to Guy's nearly severed ankle and had to give orders to boot!! THEN SHE GOES TO THE HOSPITAL WITH HIM!! She reminded me of Jackie K. at that point (although not as dire....but still). Finally, she jokes with Don and leaves the hospital in her bloody green dress, swinging her shopping bag. Joan is a true goddess. When will she be crowned Queen??
Hi everyone,
I can't stop worrying about Joan. I think she's starting to grasp that she made a mammoth mistake, marrying Greg (gee Joan, ya think? The whole engagement started on a bad note, with him sexually assaulting you in Don's office!), and I think that Joan wanted to say something to Don, while they were in the waiting room. They shared an amazing moment together, and I haven't seen Don laugh that hard, at Joan's fantastic quip of, "One moment you're on top of the world. The next, a secretary runs over your foot with a lawnmower," since Roger's quips he was making in the elevator, as they were on their way to the underground casino. The way Joan looked at Don, and he looked at her-the respect and love came blaring from my TV. I had a good cry at that moment, as I can't believe she may be leaving the show. The chemistry Joan has with everyone at Sterling Cooper is too important.
What will Joan do? Your predictions please, everyone!
Here's a link to the TIME magazine article on Connie: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,896912,00.html
Interesting excerpt:
As the force that created this empire, Conrad Hilton might be expected to be as calculating, as antiseptic and as glossily sophisticated as his hotels. The surprise about Hilton is that he is so much like the guests he caters to. Boyish, candid, trusting, he never fails to be amazed and pleased--even astonished--by the world around him. He cannot get over the speed of jet planes or his possession of a $100 Texas-style Stetson, whose price he mentions to anyone who will listen. He is susceptible to even the most transparent flattery. "You know," he says, "after the Rotterdam opening, the president of the corporation that owns the hotel came up to me and said, 'Your dance was the greatest thing that happened here.' That touched me most." When something impresses him, he often slaps his knee and exclaims: "By golly!"
Hilton refuses to comprehend bad news or business reversals ("Don't bother me about that," he says), and his top aides instinctively try to protect him from the harsh realities of the world. Says one: "For all his financial genius, he's the kind of man who can't catch a plane by himself." He is essentially a lonely man, and his closest friend is neither a businessman nor one of his four children, but his personal secretary for 21 years, Olive Wakeman, fiftyish, who acts as his chief buffer against the outside world. "I've got to protect him," she says. "He's the most naive man for his experience I've ever seen; he will not believe that anyone would tell an untruth."
Just about every episode this season has ended with Don at home with his family. In the past three episodes we've had Sally alone, after Gene's death. Then we have Don and Sally after baby Gene's birth, and most recent we have Don, Sally, and baby Gene, together for the first time.
I know there are alot of Betty haters out there, but I feel like this family is slowly finding one another, finding it's way back together and learning that it's easier to heal as a unit, then to try and do it alone.
Any predictions as to whether Betts and Bobby will be joining the party any time soon? And what needs to happen to make it so?
Well, well, well. Looks like our favorite secretary will be polishing up her resume. Any suggestions for her next career choice?
I thought it was Don, but PixilDust said it could be Dr. Rapist. Easy for Joan to go back to SC if Greg is DEAD.
In a previous epi, Pete states "...your decisions affect me". Any predictions about Pete and Peggy???
Why is there no Season 3 update of Cast & Characters? This omission seems to be a cyclical rebuke from the producers to viewers!
Why did Betty fire Carla? How will she cope without her?
I took this test twice over a three week period. I didn't memorize my answers. I was hoping for a different result the second time, but both times I was Joan Holloway. It didn't do much for my male ego. Of course I wanted to be Roger or Don. Anyone else care to take the test and share the result. it is easy to find the game, just go to MadMen main.
Ok.. so whats with Betts attitude lately? She is well aware the Don is a lying cheat and now she will have the worst Post Partum Depression, the passing of her father tipped the scales for her!
with all the tensions at SC this season, perhaps some R&R would be helpful. Who would you want to go on vacation with and where would you go?
I worry most about Harry and feel that he'd do well to get away and really think deeply about what he wants to accomplish . He somehow got himself a plum position but he's not makeing much of it. He seems to confide in his fatherinlaw but I'd like him to start thinking on his feet.. Where would be a destination that would spur him on? .
Last episode during the ant farm calamity, Pryce doesn't throw a fit, he actually laughs along with the guys. Not what we'd think.
Right before that he walked in while the guys were discussing jai alai, and he says, "Look at this, comaraderie, perhaps we've found America's new past time". Is he talking not of jai alai but of comaraderie being America's past time (in that Brit tongue and cheek subtle sarcastic kind of dry wit) ?
So this episode Don says something like I can't talk to you when you're this way and pours a drink. And here Pryce doesn't put his hand over Don's drink and say no. He accepts it, and even in his own novice way, takes a sip.
The first episode they were drinking tea. Also Pryce even had a little empathy for the Americans in firing 1/3 of the work force.
There may be something to this Pryce..
Thoughts as to why the Prison guard ignored Don as he passed him in the hospital hallway while pushing his wife in the wheel chair ?
I see that Roger and Don's friendship has really changed since last season. Instead of dropping by Don's office, he called him regarding the Art dept. I guess he can't stand being in the same room with Don for too long. And the way he chided him on his son's birth when he only took half a day from work to be with Betty and his new baby. Roger is so jealous of Don that he bought himself a new wife so he can fell like he's Don's equal. Roger should be over his mid life crisis by now. How long is this going to last. Also, everyone seems to think that Don has it all even Peggy. From the outside looking in, he does. But all of these characters envy Don so much fronm Roger, Pete, Peggy and probably many more yet Don is just as unhappy as they are. These characters are so busy looking at what someone else has that they can't see thatthey have just as much as Don. Pete has his family legacy that Don in a way once envied being raised in a privileged world. Remember his conversation with the gentleman at Roger's partyand peeing in rich people's cars. Peggy has her new career than Joan secretly envies but doesn't know how to speak up. Joan has her new marriage, although a bad one, that many of the secretaries think is a pot of gold. Pete envies Don for evertything that he has. It jsut seems that noone on th eshow is happy. I keep thinking about what Gene said, "You people think that money is the answer to everything" Everyone on the show seem to want money and status. I wonder if Don will end up leaving SC and take Sal, Pete, Peggy with him. Let's be real, the entire company would follow Don. He's like the glue that holds that company together. Roger had better tread carefully.
I know a large portion of the regulars here are Pegaholics. I would love to see her go. The dynamics are dynamic. oh I think I have a slogan. Anyhow I am not trying to get rid of her. The possibilities of it happening are intriguing. And she can always come back after Duck's scheme inevitably falls apart. Glad to see Duck back. He is such a silk covered , big dreaming,backstabbing sleazebag. All in the costume of extreme civility. So much like so many buisness people.Only taken to an extreme. Will Peggy come back, hat in hand. Will she come back to and get a raise? or after seeing Roger wave Good-bye Don will he leave and take Peggy and Pete and screw Duck again,mmmmmmcould be
Peggy always seemed a bit unbalanced to me and not the innocent little virgin she pretends to be.She may not even know who the real father is and Pete would have to be very naive to take her word for it. Let's look at the first episode of Mad Men. It's Peggy's first day on the job but yet somehow Peggy becomes friendly enough with Joan for Joan to recommend that she see a doctor she knows to get some birth control pills. Somehow Peggy immediately gets an appointment on her lunch hour to see him. Later in the day we see Peggy in Don's office trying to hold hands with him. Later in the evening after Pete's bachelor party we see him show up at Peggy's place(perhaps he just got her address from the phone book) and she invites him in to shag her, a guy she just met that day after he made a few rude remarks to her and who she knows is getting married on Sunday. Does this all sound very plausible? Sure, she could get pregnant from doing it one time but the odds are 90$ against it since a female can only get pregnant the 3 days she is ovulating and even here a lot depends on chance and other factors. Later in the series we see Peggy go into a bar and pick up some guy for sex and they do "other things" but I'd say that Peggy was picking up men for sex long before she met Pete and it was only after she got knocked up that she became more cautious. There's no reason to believe that she had Pete's baby and she only told him this out of female spite because he married another woman.
If everyone had their own signature song, what would it be? C'mon, there's no limit, play along!
My suggestions:
Why Can't You Behave? (Don)
June is Bustin' Out All Over (Betty)
You Make Me Feel So Young (Roger/Jane)
Can't Get Out of This Mood (Salvatore)
Bright Lights, Big City (Peggy)
Here Come the Man with the Jive (Jeffrey)
Sukiyaki (Bert Cooper)
From Season 2, Don visits Peggy in the hospital, he says to her, " ...it'll shock you how much this never happened..." Does he know that she had a baby? does he know that that's why (I assume) she's being treated for mental health problems. Or is he just referring to her being in hospital,etc?
(I did ask this question on Peggy's thread, but notice no one's posted on their since August.)
So far, we've had several instances of characters on Mad Men sharing their other talents with us.
Trudy and Pete danced the Charleston.
Sally did two dances, folk style and ballet
Joan sang in French and played the accordion
Peggy sang a solo, and did the Twist
Father Gill sang a folk song and played the guitar
Paul and Jeffrey sang a barbershop duet
Joan and Paul demonstrated the Cha-Cha
Roger sang Stephen Foster
Anna's student played "In the Hall of the Mountain KIng" on the piano
Sal did an impression of a girl making a commercial
Freddy played an excerpt from a Mozart serenade
Who's next?
In the recent episodes when Gene has been living at the Draper residence, I started to notice how his "parenting" skills were kicking in. He was teaching Sally and Bobby things about driving, honesty (I think he knew Sally took that $5 bill), classic literature, World War I, etc. Until he showed Bobby that war helmet, I don't think we've ever seen Bobby so animated! His facial expression at the sight of the helmet was priceless, and you could tell he was genuinely interested.
Gene seems to teach by doing, whereas Betty and Don seem to teach by the television...if you can consider that teaching! But when Grandpa Gene tries to teach the kids something or tell them the truth, it always seems to upset Betty and Don. Why is this? And how do you think Gene's living at the Draper's has affected the kids so far, or will affect them in the future?
Starting a separate thread for this so as to not disturb the real episode thread that is only for talk about the show. This is only for predictions of how the show will open in the very first scene. No prizes except "Fame & Fortune" on the MadMen blog, and superiority above your peers on here, both the ones you love, and love to hate! All kidding aside, just a fun contest, join in!
Connie: Many viewers think the "Connie" that Don met in the bar of the country club is supposed to be Conrad Hilton. The biographical info the character gave Don does fit Conrad Hilton, but I think it's unlikely that the real Conrad Hilton would feel the need to hide in the bar at a wedding. By 1963, he was fabulously famous and wealthy, and I doubt that he would have any feelings of insecurity that the Connie in the bar expressed. Thoughts, anyone? (My husband thinks Don imagined the scene.) And what are your thoughts about the possibility that Conrad Hilton would use SC for advertising?
HoHo: Is he just a spoiled rich kid, or mentally disturbed? I think the latter. Pete, Pryce and the others' eager delight in taking his money is pretty disgusting. Horace Sr.'s painful conversation with Bert only just danced around the issue of HoHo's sanity: "If you don't take his money, someone else will." HoHo is probably bipolar or maybe even schizophrenic. Only Don had the integrity to turn him down. What does this say about SC?
So let's get back to talking about MM! (In my opinion, so far this season has lacked the interesting characters, detail and layers of the two previous seasons, and it's hard for people to come up with interesting threads. Help a sister out here!)
At the very end of this week's episode "The Arrangements", the Hofstadt children discuss something that sent chills down my spine , though it was delivered as almost a throwaway line.
William mentions that the bank had trouble sorting out Gene's finances because there were actually two people named Gene Hofstadt in their record. It's almost as if someone with the exact same name, no relation, went in to register an account, not knowing of the other one's existence. Where have we heard about mistaken identities in the Mad Men world before?
Oh that's right - our main character, "Don Draper", isn't actually Don Draper at all! Although the original died in Korea, two Draper names exist in virtually unconnected lives. Folks, I do not think Gene Hofstadt's dual identity should be underplayed as a simple name coincidence, as I've seen in a previous topic here. I think it's entirely possible our Gene went through a similar experience as our Don, and kept that hidden from his whole family until his death.
Upon this realization, my mind jumped back to one of Gene's most intense moments from last season, when he yells at Betty: "That man has no people - you can't trust a man with no people!" Besides Gene's general "old world" viewpoints, what would lead him to such a strong distrust? My theory is that Gene sees right through Don because... he's not that unlike Don himself!
What do you all think?
Everyone knows Dick Whitman is now living as Don Draper. We also know he used the name Tilden Katz at the gambling den in Six Months Leave. He used the name Bill Hofstadt flying down to Baltimore. Has he used the names of other real people that we know of? What names could he have used?
Hi all, wondering if you have time to to go check out my recent post. I compared Don Draper to Laurence Harvey in Manchurian Candidate (and Betty as well, indirectly). While the stories have nothing common except time frame, what is coincidental is how similar they are in other ways. Made me wonder if Matt Weiner kind of had this vision of Manchurian Candidate as the epitome of the disaffected American in the 1960s and that image played in his selection of Jon Hamm. Would love to hear your thoughts on the similarities.
http://tinyurl.com/lxpbcz
BTW, browse here a lot even if not contributing. Love the comments.
http://tinyurl.com/lxpbcz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxZ3A9giyIo
Does that seem odd to anyone? That there would be two guys, contemporary of each other, in the same town using the same bank with that name? Eugene was certainly a more common name then than it is today, but when you combine it with Hoffstadt? It doesn't seem like you'd find too many of those in the same town unless they were in some way related -- Jr. and Sr., grandfather and grandson, uncle and nephew, or, as in the case of George Foreman's family, brother and sister. LOL.
But Eugene Hoffstadt, the Chip N Dip of people (we got two)? Not sure that I buy that. Maybe Gene had one of those Liberty Capital Private Executive Accounts...
Hi fellow Maddicts,
I know there is a current thread on bringing Rachel back, but truly, in my opinion, I felt Midge was the BEST suited for Don, and matched him perfectly. They matched wits, humor and sexual chemistry. Midge was a bohemian artist who lived by her own code, and held no strings to anyone or anything. She was sexy, brash, funny, bright, and had a deep creative side. I loved her, and she still stands out as my favorite Don girl. I still refuse to believe that Don walked away from her, handing over his bonus check to her, and letting her whittle away her days with Roy, who was far beneath both Don and Midge.
Some favorite Midge lines:
"You know the rules: I don't make plans, and I don't make breakfast."
"[on the phone with Don] I want you to pull my hair, and ravish me, and leave me for dead."
"I like being your medicine."
"Don't bring that here. I'm serious, Don, don't talk to me about her. That makes me feel cruel. "
BRING MIDGE BACK!!! Don needs to be challenged again, and Midge was his perfect fit (again, just in my opinion).
Bobby probably has fetal alcohol syndrome.
Betty is the absolute Princess of Narcisism. Did you notice how the director cut to her expanding belly after she delivered this line. She really does need more therapy. I can't understand whey Don is still with her. I'm sure he regrets marrying her which is whey he feels so tortured by his preent life. I think he cares about Betty, but he doesn't love her on a deeper more intimate level. I think he is still in love with Rachel Menchen. She is the only one he regrets losing. I empathized with Betty's character but, her daughter appears to have more strength and courage than she does. Makes me wonder how many people go to bed with a spouse they really don't love anymore.
I wish they'd have Rachel with Don again. That was some of the best of Don outside the office anyway I thought. Seemed like she really understood him. Maybe Don will leave SC - bringing Sal and maybe Peggy with him, and they could bring Rachel back that way?
When Peggy tried marijuana for the first time in Season 3 Episode 3, it seemed to foreshadow the changes in society that will be seen in the late 60s. Peggy and Joan seem to me to be the least tied down to their Sterling Copper roots.
Where do you think Peggy and Joan will end up in the late '60s?
It seems strange that Peter acts as though he know nothing about his baby. He and Peggy act as though nothing ever happened. You would think that he would try and find the baby especially since he wife can't have children.
Sally and her lisp remind me of Cindy Brady....anyone agree?
aka Marge the switchboard operator, aka Flo from Progressive Insurance:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20301774,00.html
Referring to rowdy men, Joan responds, "Sounds like the men at my office," or something like that. Was anyone else surprised that she would make a reference to the rowdy men at work after what her husband did to her because of those men at her office? She seems to be very compliant, so it seemed weird to me that she would bring up such a controversial topic in front of her husband. I would think that talking about the men in the office would be the last thing shed want to bring up.
Did anyone else think that Jeffrey, the drug dealer, bore a striking resemblance to a young Tom Cruise? He even sounded like Tom.
Also in an unrelated observation, could Jane be ill? When she visits the office, she tells Joan that she keeps losing weight. And at the party, I'm sure Jane was drunk, but could some illness be affecting her motor skills and balance? Just wondering . . .
Also, it was great to see so many of the characters show their hidden talents - dancing, playing the accordian, singing - fun!
Somebody please tell the producers to tell all male actors in Mad Men how to properly remove they're headwear. Anyone who knows anything about wearing hats knows this....never remove a hat by it's crown. You always lift the hat off by the brim. Just watch any movie from the 30's and 40's...when hats were really popular...and you'll see the proper way to remove a mans hat. You cetainly can tell Jon Hamm knows not how to doff a hat. He probably never had one like that to doff. JC
At this point I am so unenthralled with this character that I wish someone would just shake some sense into her.
When Sally came to Betty's room and exclaimed that she had walked backwards all the way up the stairs, what did mama say? "ZIP"...not even acknowledging Sally's remarkable feat. Where is her understanding and compassion for her children. Her focus is always on herself. Oh, yes, she did buy some very nice riding boots for Sally, but we have yet to see Sally using them.
I find no warmth or charm in this character, except when she's faced with a stranger who wants to touch her belly bulge. Hmmm, wonder how she would explain that to Don???
First she wants to dance then she doesn't want to dance. All the while just looking bored. She didn't even try to have a conversation with one of Don's co-workers and his wife (can't recall their names) when they came up to their table.
This is her third pregnancy. You'd think by know she'd know that her lovely, lithe body will tend to expand and it will be uncomfortable.
She has no pleasant interaction with Bobby or Sally. Whenever she speaks to them it's always to scold or bark at them. I feel sorry for both of the children and even more so for Bobby who will become the "middle" child once the new baby gets here. In this episode he was no more than a shadow in the background.
I don't think it's just her hormones because she's pregnant. I think it's her true nature: icy, cold and after all, she is "Nordic"...
Just had to get that off my chest. Betty really irks me!
Carla, the Drapers' housekeeper and now "elder caregiver" for Betty's father, Gene is such an unsung hero. She perseveres through Gene's lost money drama, gets the dinner on the table and basicaly lets old Gene know that she is running the show and he's just one of the kids as far as she's concerned. When he called her "Viola"(HIS former maid) and asked if she knew "Viola" it was then she informed him, "My name is Carla....we don't all know each other, Mr. Hofstead..." Her facial expression was priceless. I think he likes her...I think i saw kind of a twinkle in his eye. Better watch out, Carla!
So what was the deal with Sally and the $5 bill? I know that $5 was worth a whole lot more in '63 then it is now (a nickle could still get you a cup of coffee then, but $5 is what you need to get one now...well, a good latte at least). Sally thought she could get away with taking the money and forgetful Granddad would never notice, but he did and wouldn't stop searching till it turned up.
But there's an interesting point that Matt W. made in a recent interview regarding Sal being caught with the bellboy. He said that "Sometimes you get away with it." Meaning, you do something you think is wrong, but you don't get caught.
Did Grandpa know Sally took the $5? Or didn't he? Sally looked really guilty and obviously expected to be called on the carpet for the crime, but it never happened. Did she "get away" with it or not? She didn't get to keep it, obviously, but she wasn't punished for the theft either.
Thoughts on Sally, Granddad and the missing $5?
http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/?bcpid=8803972001&bclid=34804835001&bctid=35606054001
Anyone else see what's going on with Harry's wife? I thought that was one of the more understated things going on this episode. She wants to go chat with Harry's co-workers, is she interested in taking on the role of Sterling Cooper wife like Betty, or is she just bored and happy to be out? Little bit of both? I don't know.
And the way she looks at Pete and Trudy. She's clearly jealous. And when everyone stops and lets those 2 have the floor, after Cosgrove says next time he needs to bring a date, she just leaves in this subtle but disappointed or frustrated jealous way.
Of course Harry being a guy doesn't catch it and continues to just stand there.
Anyway what was up with that? Trouble on the horizon for Harry or just one of those things?
Olive: You're not thinking about your future.
Peggy: The thing is, I already have a job. I have my own office w/ my name on the door. And a secretary- that's you. I'm not scared... But... oh my god... you are.
Peggy then goes on to assure Olive that she need not worry... "I'm going to get everything I want.". She's just been inspired by her first pot high, to come up w/ some good ideas for the Bacardi Rum campaign, to the point where she breezily tells the boys they can go home. Think of how far Peggy has come since we first saw her in Mad Men's very first episode. She IS so real... the journey so many professional women took in the 60's-80's.
It was in this episode that I've realized that Peggy has evolved into one of my favorite female characters in all of TV & film. Elizabeth's Moss portrayal is so nuanced; touching, funny, subtle... infused w/ intelligence. And because of the excellent writing, what a fully-rounded character she has to work with! Watching tonight's episode, I realized something: Most of my favorite female characters on televsion are harder-edged, often in traditionally male professions, ala Holly Hunter in "Saving Grace." Joan, Peggy & Betty are in office jobs, mostly wearing dresses & doing things more typical women do. But they are written as whole people. Even a generation later, I can identify w/ them, largely because in spite of being more typically feminine, they are still written as WHOLE PEOPLE!!!
So few women's character's are written as fully realized human beings, especially when it comes to sexuality just being part of who they are, not the defining identifier. They're usually written as seen through male eyes.
We do see how the men view Peggy, Joan & Betty. But especially in the case of the first two ladies, we also get the women's POV of their OWN lives.
Thank you, writers.
So, ladies and gents, how long do we give this little tinder box before it blows sky high? Can denial keep things afloat for a month...a year...fifty years? Or are we looking at a much closer explosion?
And if it does end, how do we think it will? Annulment? Divorce? 'European' Divorce? Pre- or Post- kids? With the Dr or Joan giving the boot?
Hmmm....I'm curious to hear you all's thoughts!
If Jane's depth of character really is as shallow as it is portrayed, then I can only conclude Roger is going through a mid-life crisis. Then Don would be right and Roger is foolish.
I'm sure this was already discussed in the open thread but I needed to bring up that whole scene with Don's real mother. Is it not absolutely fantastic that he was named Dick because his mother wanted to chop his father's off?
How has this legacy shaped Don? We already know his father's member got his mother "in trouble" and Don's member has certainly gotten him in a lot of trouble.
. It takes you 10 times longer the any other cast member to walk across the office.
2. You think evaluating your "strengths" in the mirror while wearing nothing but a paper bag is a normal. In fact, you recommend it to female coworkers.
3. You feel like Shirley MacLaine's character in The Apartment. She attempted suicide. You also feel like Marilyn Monroe. She succeeded.
..... http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/08/23/mad-men-preview-jon-hamm/
'Mad Men' preview -- with a side of Jon Hamm!
by Jeff Jensen
This interview sheds some interesting light on the effect (and timing) of Betty's pregnancy on the Draper marriage.
Jon Hamm spoke recently in another interview about Don Draper's hollow declarations in the S2 post-shower scene, in the living room, right before he gets kicked out. He talked about the fact that, basically, Don was telling Betty (and himself) a hollow lie. I thought it was a great scene, but now I consider it an acting feat, to be able to portray that duality, with the crocodile tears and emoting, and all. He was saying all the right words, with the correct expressions and inflections, but somehow it missed the mark, and that wasn't lost on Betty, either.
Here, Jon talks about the reconciliation after returning from California, which moment between them was also was somewhat hollow and rather missed the mark, and what it could have been, were it not for the baby.
(There are no real spoilers in this interview.)
My favorite part of the show has always been Roger's dry, cynical wit. It occured to me while watching the elevator scene in 302 that the writers are channeling Billy Wilder and his co-screenwriter I. A. L Diamond. If you think about some of the writing in Some Like It Hot or The Fortune Cookie you may see a resemblance. In fact that exchange way back between Joan and Roger discussing the film The Apartment (written by Wilder and Diamond) has Roger spouting dialogue that could well be recited by Wilder favorite, Walter Matthau. "We don't even have a dog." And of course the Roger and Peggy exchange is in an elevator, where much of the action takes place in The Apartment.
Many of you have talked about Joan's fiancee. She was married at Christmas. I remember her stating that they were planning a Christmas wedding. It is now in the spring. Roger corrected himself and referred to her as "Mrs. Harris". She also said her husband doesn't want her to travel on the subway.
Betty's charachter is part of the reason why I enjoy this show so much because she represents how upper middleclass housewives wanted to have a perfect life. But, really another season of hearing her speak in her baby talk and acting like a spoiled princess is too much. Please show Joan in the next epidose standing up to her husband because im tired of watching weak, whiniey betty draper. She even had the audacity to refer to herself as an "orphan: in season 2. A married, adult woman with two children calling herself an orphan. Betty needs to revisit her therapist for a few more sessions. She's more delusional than Don.
Ive noticed that this season Peggy has chaged her whole attitude. she went from sweet to more serious. i think shes trying to have people take her more seriously and maybe shes trying to discover how to act. what do you think?
After looking at the photo shot in Vanity Fair for an upcoming episode, I find myself attempting to guess what is forthcoming. Yes, Don does look miserable, but if you look close, you notice that Betty is not wearing her wedding ring set. In an interview January states, "I make jewelry, I have my own line." In one of the photos AMC has, it shows her looking at her reflection, then looking at the jewelry. Wouldn't it be a kicker if Don had to work for Betty?
In reading the hilarious ADT website, Don makes this confession -
Don: My mom died in childbirth like yours. Only mine as a prostitute. They found my father and gave me to him and his wife. He died when I was 10. He was a drunk who got kicked by a horse. So she took up with some other man. I was raised by those two sorry people.
Looks like Don told Rachel that whoever birthed the baby "found his dad" and gave Don to him. This makes me believe, like I thought, that the john was Don's dad.
Thoughts?
This might be a naïve question, but do people think that Don will always be a philanderer or will he be able to clean up his act someday? Don has had many affairs over the years, yet wishes to stay married to Betty and has attempted to be faithful to her at times (beginning of season 2). Is he capable of fidelity, or is he always going to fall to temptation when a skirt comes his way?
In a related topic, how does Don's infidelity affect your opinion of him? Do you love him just as he is or do you wish he'd fix his ways? Will you stop watching the show if he stops/doesn't stop the affairs?
There are a couple of hints (no real spoilers) in an article in, of all places, the Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574361072650092610.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Hmmmmm.....
Did they ever mention the sex of Peggy and Pete's illegitimate child?
I really love Mad Men. In general, I think the writing/direction is absolutely brilliant. I was very disappointed by the graphic sexual incident with Sal in Season three opening. It seems like either the writer or director or both just got lazy and decided to use sensationalism as a substitute for the usual brilliance. I hope Season three won't be disappointing. I looked forward to it so much!!!!!
I saw this on another site and I LOVE it... I could watch this all day!
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q413/fangrrl_magnet/happydancePeteC.gif
Don is just too eager, deep down, to run away from it all and to destroy the lie that is his "new" life.
He's going to implode and explode later this season and tear everything down into rubble.
There seems to be a tight bond between Don and Freddie that was hinted at during SML. Don was very hesitant to go along with Roger (and Duck's) decision regarding Freddie. Given how Freddie was the first to notice Peggy's abilities and then Don's nurturing of her, how similar was this to how Don came in and then rose at SC ? Given the possible emotional ties between the 3, and a hint from MW that Freddie will return in S3, it will be interesting to see how this develops.
Well, as soon as I read about them, I knew I wanted them. Paper dolls! Joan Holloway paper dolls! What fun. I was crazy about paper dolls when I was a little girl. I had a Doris Day paper doll with the most beautiful clothes, and an Esther Williams doll with about a dozen different swim suits. I couldn't wait for my mother to get the latest McCall's magazine so I could cut out the little girl paper doll - gosh, what the heck was her name? Does anyone else remember playing with paper dolls or am I the only one?
Of course, if I have a Joan doll, I would need a Roger doll, too, and if I have Joan and Roger, well they have to go to work, so I would need the rest of the SC office staff. I would want Don and Betty, too, although probably I would never dress Don, just leave him in his underwear. Betty would only need her polka dot dress or maybe her riding costume. I would want a before and after Peggy doll - maybe one with a removable pony tail would be fun. Oh, the office parties I could stage!
My daughter came home for Christmas and I was introducing her to Mad Men by watching Season 1 dvds with her. She loves the show. But I noticed something odd. The first couple shows they refer to the domestic helper as Ethel, then later in the season they call her Carla. Are they two different women? Or did they switch her name on us and hope we didn't notice? Did anyone else notice that?
Haven't really seen a thread for this topic, so decided to start one. How old do you think all the characters are (besides those who have already mentioned their actual ages in the series)?
I keep going back to that line - when Betty confronted Don about Bobbie Barrett and said, "She's so old!" Just HOW old do we think Bobbie was? I'm guessing at least 40. Given that Betty is 30, I can just imagine how old 40 seemed! I'm taking this all a bit personally since I'm older than that!
All the talk of Jennifer Aniston coming on the show made me think - she's hitting 40 isn't she? As much as I like her, I have to say age is starting to catch up to her face. I wish someone would tell female actors that smoking ages their face terribly. If it weren't for her incredibly small body she'd be losing some of her star appeal.
Ok Maddicts, Roger is having a grand party for the New Year. Sterling Cooper have much to celebrate and look forward too in the upcoming year. Who was invited? What was on the menu? Where was the gala held? How were the ladies dressed (by name)? Who showed up uninvited and what did they have to say?
My thought is that he is sitting in his office holding the gun thinking that is all he has to show for his marriage to Trudy,,,,and he doesn't have even a hint of a fantasy life left now with Peggy.
Take a look-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1hnoJlRrTA
It's a new year - 1963 or 1964 (depending on Matt Weiner's writers) and the characters of Mad Men are making out their New Year's Resolutions...
Don - Take on a Third Identity
Betty - Take up skeet shooting and learn how to pick a lock
Bored Maddicts? Longing to re-enter the world of Don Draper and his happy-go-lucky colleagues at Sterling-Cooper? Starting to develop tics and twitches as the weeks pass and still no Mad Men re-runs in sight? Well, I have an idea to help pass the time and have a little fun. We Maddicts love our fun, don't we?
It was a great time for network primetime television, the years 1960-64. Who here remembers the fun of watching kid-friendly series like The Rifleman (1958-63), The Beverly Hillbillies (1962-71), Gilligan's Island (1964-67), Bewitched (1964-72) and all the rest? What you think Sally Draper made of the sometimes strange world-views potrayed in these shows? And - impressionable as she was - how do you think she used them to interpret her life as a schoolgirl in boring old Ossining?
I like to delve into Dick Whitman's morph into who he becomes as Don Draper.. How easy would it have been ? Was the switch in dogtags enough ? Were there any other bureaucratic hurdles? Was the dogtag # simply a SS#?
Dick only observed Lt Draper for a few days, we know that Anna was not mentioned.. Hard for a woman to understand that so little personal info was shared, course they were under fire and had that life 'n death thing to deal with....
What kind of conversation transpired that Dick felt that if his life could be different/better if he had Lt Draper's karma?
Don Draper is is making out his Christmas list. Here are a few items for the names on his list....
Pete - A copy of "How to Make Friends and Influence People"
Peggy - A copy of "How to Dress for Success"
Betty - Hunter's Safety Course
Roger - A pot to *iss in
Duck - A copy of a what a non-compete contract looks like
Joan - A cattle prod
Sal - A new closet
Ken - Barbie
What would you get these characters?
i watched the show from the beginning and in season one it never really bothered me that don cheated until his affair with Rachael. it was at that point that he wasn't just having an affair but a romance.
in the sopranos i never got angry with Tony's affairs because they never meant anything to him. Carmela was his one and only. with don i just dont know.
he loves betty. i know that. but i feel it is more hurtful that he has true romances with some of these other women.
what do you think?
I was interested to see that Don seemed to genuinely be personally invested in Freddie. I doubted his humaninty but still harbor the feeling that his underlying motivation was a response to one more stinging barb inflicted by Duck. I'll be excited to learn what kind of future interaction these two work through if Don decides to stay on at SC... With his cool 1/2 mil buyout in the bank and Betty's pregnancy, we will begin to see if Don's desire to heal his family life is a priority .... I got my doubts.. Don is a man of his time and '62 was not the era for personal introspection, especially if it could conflict w/ career goals.
I must admit that I have not seen season 1 yet. But I began "tivo-ing" Mad Men beginning this season. Do we know why Don doesn't wear a wedding ring? Just curious....
Mad Men has not had a real heart-wrenching love story yet. After viewing Pete and Peggy together on last week's show they could make it happen. They have the magic ingredients of restraint and longing (and the acting ability) to tug at your heart strings.
Here's Pete Campbell (John Barrowman) singing "I Won't Send Roses" to Peggy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuFIzHifuu4
Episode 13 was so moving for me in that so much of Betty's experiences brought back so many memories of just how life was for young women in the late fifies, early sixties. I was a young woman then, working as a private secretary on Fifth Avenue, above 34th Street. I say that because it did make a difference. Growing up my mother's mantra to me was "Little girls should be seen and not heard".
Excellent parallels between what was happening in the SC board room and the Cuban missile crisis. Just as the U.S. did, Don called Duck's bluff, and it seems pretty obvious that Duck will skulk away with his tail between his legs. Apologies if someone posted about this already.
Well, Duck blew it again, this time not only for the Brits but for himself. As if Duck hasn't racked up enought losses on the toteboard, he actually managed to self immolate with no assistance from anyone! Will Duck be selling insurance or working at a liquor store next season.......
I noticed that this season, the Draper's housekeeper, Carla, was given an interesting position in the Draper household. Obviously, she witnessed Betty's breakdown over Don's affair, and she was with Betty after Betty sent Don away. In the one episode, Don offers her a ride, but Carla refuses because Don has been drinking. She says nicely that she likes the fresh air. Any comments on Carla? Do you think we will be seeing more of her?
Peggy's baby on 'Mad Men': Clearing up that confusion
There seems to be some confusion over one aspect of "Mad Men." In the show's Sunday finale, Peggy told Pete that she had had his baby and had given it away.
may be a jerk at times but at least he alerted Don about the merge and Duck's plans ... why did he do that? he must really have respect for Don
All I could think of when Peggy told Pete about having his child and giving it away were his mother's words about adopted children: "discards". Now this is the fate of Pete's progeny, and that it was a son, makes it even more tragic.
And yet, there seemed to be an element of hope and renewal in Peggy and Pete's confessions. All the hurt and sins were washed away, too, even though Pete's suffering has just begun. As traumatic as Peggy's history with Pete has been, the gentleness and compassion and forgiveness she had for Pete and herself was truly both amazing and healing. Peggy was neither hateful or indifferent in her confession, and I felt that left the door open for a possible future......
I loved the part where Duck thinks he's going to reem
Don and pushed way to far, criticizing creative and not talking about the work for the clients. He made it all personal and it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. People come to Sterling Cooper because of Don and he cares about his clients. He's a salesman too but he felt so bad when he had to let go of the airline account and felt they should keep the loyal account they had instead of going for the glory of American
Mr Cooper caught and so did the British. can't wait to see next season, anybody have an idea when???
I guess Betty was mad, hot and horny! She took up with a stranger in a bar. While I do not condone what she did, I can understand why she did engage in an adulterous affair. Betty is a fragile soul. She was probably looking for some sort of affirmation. It's a psychological thing.
Should Betty have told Sally about the marital troubles? Is eight years old too young for that kind of information? Will Betty begin to lean on Sally now, the way that she did with Glenn?
Dick's recovery...
So Dick has had an angel watching over him all this time. And a female friend he treats with respect and admiration to boot...Amazing. And just in time, cause a little more of Don's antics and he would have lost many of us. I thought the only one who could retrieve things was Dick and it's now looking like if and when he finishes his "therapy" in CA, he will.
I love this show. Don Draper reminds me of the early James Bond played by Sean Connery and he talks like Rod Serling of Twilight Zone.
I think Peggy and Pete were a couple prior to her arrival at SC. They were in love and probably would've gotten married except that Peggy was from a working class family with no name. Pete's family would never have accepted her, and he was too spineless to even try. Thus he dumped her for a rich girl from a well-named family. Peggy was heart broken. She knew Pete worked at a firm on Mad Ave called Sterling Cooper so she decided to get a job there. Pete couldn't let himself be associated with a SECRETARY from BROOKLYN so he acted like a total ass - yeah, that'll keep 'em guessing!
Sterling Cooper is his life. Now that he begrudgingly gave the go ahead on the merger he said he would feel useless "Like the Queen of England." Presumably meaning just a figurehead with no real authority. Sometimes when people live for their work, then retire, they feel they have no sense of purpose and die soon after. His sister Alice did mention that he is older than her and she looks pretty ancient (no offense to the actress who plays Alice). Alice says to Bert "You aren't well." I don't recall any story line about Bert's health. He obviously has somewhere to go, his cows in Montana, but he chooses to be in New York at HIS company. Another thing that leads me to believe this is when Joan tells Roger "One day you will lose someone you really care about." There is a lifelong history between Roger and Bert. Bert has a picture of Roger as a child in his office. Alice used to baby-sit Roger. Bert's mother introduced Roger to Mona and made Bert promise to take care of Roger. If Roger does care about Bert and loses him, that would be pretty devastating.
I hope I am wrong. I was just getting over the whole Chauncey situation when the writers went and gave poor Freddy Rumsen the boot!
I've been thinking a lot about Joan. Without Roger in bed with her, her power at SC has seriously declined. I think she actually loved/loves Roger and is heartbroken to seem him actually leave his wife for JANE when he would never do it for her. He offered and she always told him no, and maybe now she regrets it (?). She had a chance to move beyond the ranks of secretary and was not appreciated, even though she did a fantastic job. (Poor Harry having to stare at an orangutan!)
I noticed last night, as I watched it for the 3rd time, that while Dr. Greg was showing her who was boss that there was the subtle sound effect of a train whistle. Wow.
Is her lameness a plot device to explain away her apparent lack of emotion over the loss of her husband--as in "...he wanted my sister"...but got me instead?
Is it meant to show that she's resigned to being the "left over" choice, and thus has "reduced expectations" from life?
This just occurred to me as I was reading the 'Joan's Complicated Engagement to Greg' thread. I think Joan is really in love with Roger. As I said on that thread, Roger is really a horn-dog, but he's charming, witty, handsome and wealthy. He always talks to her with an almost wistful or tempered fondness. She's worked for in the office for 9 years and spent a lot of time with him.
What are your thoughts?
In the begining, Joan was sharp! and the kinda together chick most women dreamed of being.Now she's an insecure idiot that rambles on about her boyfriends accomplishments. I can't see her character getting back the respect and admiration she had initially.......MISS HENDRICKS "if your listening" now would be a good time to leave this show. "You've Played Your Part" , Now find something else.
Doesn't anyone remember the 1st Mrs. from the Soprano's? She was the russian house keeper that helped Tony's mom. She had a fake leg then. She must really have a problem because they show her limping.
The rape scene with Joan was very difficult to watch. It has taken many days to digest and accept what happened to her. I am now prepared to discuss the varied reasons why Joan has accepted this man's proposal for marriage.
Can we... Discuss her life as single, (31+ year old) college graduate in 1962. Acknowledge her as a working woman, never married, no children, having called off more than one engagement, living independently in New York City and working in Manhattan at a small advertising firm.
