Betty and Don's daughter

that will be a story in itself....she has some serious issues.

Happy Halloween Maddicts, and speaking of masks....

I thought Dons' smile at the end of the season when talking about his engagement to Megan was a mask. It was the same smile he had years earlier when he was selling cars. Unnatural and well...trying to hard.
Indeed, even in his personal life he feels he needs to be "selling".
Image vs Reality still (in my opinion) is his #1 obstacle to happiness. Actually I work on that myself!
Thoughts???

OFF SEASON OPEN THREAD (10-31-10)

MM SCRIPTS by Real Maddicts

It's a long, cold off season. Here are some possible twists and turns our MM saga might just take in the meantime . . .

Pics on Racy's Photos

If you wish to see wasthere with Margaret Woodford and another pic of wasthere at the P.J. Clark's get-together, go to RacyMadMenphotos@roadrunner.com. I am the old brunette.

"It's okay, Betty"

I know this came up in the season finale thread. What was the general consensus on what Don meant when he said that to Betty after announcing his engagement?

Betty almost looks teary-eyed, and I can't really read Don's facial expression. Pity? Compassion? Love? The aura of that scene is Our marriage is over, but don't grieve, Betty - I still love you? I really don't know. It's very bittersweet, because there's that whole element of Betty hinting to Don that things aren't okay in her marriage to Henry and just the way she's looking at him. The look was one of love. He even looked like he was going to cry.

Jon Hamm pokes fun at Don Draper's proposal in SNL promo

In an SNL promo on the snl website, Jon Hamm asks Keenan Thompson about a plant, and when Keenan Thompson suggests that since Jon Hamm loves the plant so much, why doesn't he marry it, Jon Hamm pops out a flashy ring and runs to propose! Priceless! Obvious wink at us fans!!
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/snl-promo-jon-hamm/1256493/?__cid=thefilter

Mad Men

When will Mad Men be on again?

A Halloween Party for Roger Sterling

It's Saturday, and Jane Sterling wants to cheer up her gloomy gus husband, Roger.....he is very depressed over some pesky problems at work.....he hasn't tossed off a quip in days.....don't ask Jane what the problems are as she never pays attention to that stuff.....and why should she? She married Roger's money, and shopping takes up most of her time. After shopping, her next favorite thing is throwing a party, and you are invited to this one. There is only one rule. You have to have a joke to tell Roger. The man desperately needs a laugh. So throw on a costume, think of a good joke, and lets party.....(just so we don't all get tossed out on our ears, lets try to keep the jokes fairly clean, not crude, and if bawdy, not vulgar.....this is 1965, after all).

Watch Jon Hamm on Saterday Night Live today (10/30/10)

I would if I could!

Mad Men Halloween Costume suggestions

Post your ideas, and be creative!
Everyone's done the "Joan", with the red wig, pencil-skirt dress and pen necklace...what else would you wear?

One of my thoughts for a fun and sexy costume is something Midge wore in Season 1: An Irish-style cream sweater over black "full coverage" panties. Only for the brave! ;)

Length of posts on the frontpage

Would it be possible for everyone to keep the entries on the frontpage short so interesting posts don't get kicked off the frontpage after short period of time? If you want to post a long entry you can just post the rest of the post in the comment section.

Mirroring of Don & the Series Pilot Themes in Season 4 Finale

Wow, anyone else notice there is apparently some kind of mirroring between the series pilot and the s4 finale on the concepts/themes of "love", "happiness" and "tomorrow" and Don's related 180 degree reversal in his fundamental beliefs? Makes me think Weiner & Co. sketched out the seasons way ahead of time despite any statements to the contrary.

Pilot Clip of Don dishing on love around the 2:00 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4QeLj3zWmo

Pilot Clip of Don opining on "happiness":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kYqK6per_8&feature=related

Series Pilot Don on Love & Tomorrow: "When you mean love, you mean the big lightning bolt to the heart; where you can't eat, and you can't work and you just run off and get married and make babies."

"The reason you haven't felt it is because it doesn't exist. What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons. You're born alone and you die alone and this world just drops a bunch of rules on top of you to make you forget those facts. But I never forget. I'm living like there's no tomorrow, because there isn't one."

Series Pilot Don on Happiness: "Advertising is based on one thing, happiness. And you know what happiness is? Happiness is the smell of a new car. It's freedom from fear. It's a billboard on the side of the road that screams reassurance that whatever you are doing is okay. You are okay. "

S4 Finale Don on Love and Tomorrow: "I don't know what it is about you, but I feel like myself when I'm with you. But the way I always wanted to feel, because I'm in love with you Megan, and I think I have been for a while."

"When I saw you sleeping there, I thought, I couldn't imagine not seeing you there every morning. Will you marry me?"

S4 Finale Don on Happiness: ""She makes me very happy."

So 4 seasons after the series pilot, Don/Dick, who has been dating but not looking for love or remarriage, unexpectedly falls in love like he was hit by a "big lightning bolt to the heart" and wants to "run off and get married" with Megan, in an episode coincidentally titled "Tomorrowland"; while at the same time that Peggy & Ken land an account w/nylon company Topaz.

Is Don's 180 degree reversal of his beliefs in love, tomorrow and happiness Weiner's way of showing that Don is progressing as a human being? Or is Don falling for the same kind of flim flam hogwash illusion that ad guys like him use to sell nylons?

IMHO Don/Dick's character arc journey from not believing in love (stemming from a nihilistic belief that there is no future) and finding happiness in advertising & material goods (materialism) to finally falling in love, not being able to imagine not seeing Megan every morning (believing in a tomorrow/the future) and being made very happy by Megan represented real growth and maturity for Don.

On a macro-level, Don's character arc represents a larger truth that we can all relate to and maybe Weiner & Co. are messaging about. Since most countries are capitalist societies, the vast majority of people in the world are bombarded by advertising to make them feel inadequate in order to convince them to consume & buy things that are supposed to make them happy, but in reality the joy of these material goods & false images are fleeting & transient compared to the real happiness, love & friendship derived from relationships with other people/human beings.

However, if that is the case, I wonder where Weiner is going with this because it seems like the arc for Don's character is then complete. They can have him experience more history stuff but how else can they change his character from a "hero's journey" story structure point of view.

Does anyone have their own takes on what the apparent series pilot/s4 finale connection could mean thematically?

Two Maddicts Met for Lunch Today

Margaret Woodford and I met for the first time today. She drove in from Barnegat, NJ to meet me in Fort Washington, PA and I treated her to a nice lunch. She surprised me with a PEN NECKLACE! and a home-made loaf of cheese bread. It was a great day and we talked Mad Men a lot.

Mad Men Season 1, Ep 12 & Season 4 Finale Parallels

I was reading the Tv without pity recap of s1e12 "Nixon vs, Kennedy" the other day and noticed what appeared to be parallel lines/themes in s4 finale "Tomorrowland..

"Nixon vs. Kennedy"

Bert Cooper: "The Japanese have a saying: a man is whatever room he is in, and right now Donald Draper is in this room." (As an aside, does this quote explain why Don's bedroom is so dark throughout season 4 until Megan is there during the proposal scene; that the set dressing reflects his state of mind?)

Flashback scene: "A young woman on the train unsolicitedly remarks that it must be hard [for army officer Don], but he's got his whole life ahead of him."

"Tomorrowland"

Megan: "I know who you are now"

Stephanie: "That's the beauty of it...I have my whole life ahead of me...so do you."
.

1) Is Weiner saying a person's identity is really premised on behavior/action in the present moment "now", regardless if they are pretending or putting up a false front?

2) Does the "whole life ahead of you" line signal the theme of the creation of a new identity? So Dick Whitman "became" Don Draper in the flashback scene in s1e12 and now in the season 4 finale, we are seeing a new identity being forged (merger of "Dick/Don" or a whole new identity)?

Mad Men Fan? Chance to Move Overseas? DON'T DO IT!!!

Okay, my apologies in advance for this purely self-involved topic/post/rant but I am suffering from a severe case of "Missed All of The Mad Men Finale Fun" and I gotta get it out!
So I move to London earlier this year. Sounds great right? Should be, but OH noooooo......
FIRST, of course S4 didn't start here at the same time. Okay. I can deal. Click. Click. Season Pass, done. We all know the problems with Season Pass but, hey, at least it's just a few hours later.
SECOND, can't see the Sneak Previews here in Fish-n-Chipsville, but, again, no reason to start panicking.
THIRD and most importantly, I could no longer read all of the great pre-episode, real-time and post-episode postings!!! Constantly late to the party so to speak. It bites, er, it "bit"????
FINALLY, the Perfect Storm, the Season Finale. Can't see it when it broadcasts. Can't read comments. Then got busy and couldn't even see it when available for download!! Aaargh! By the time I saw it and jumped on here it would qualify as a full-time job to wade through it all!!! That being said, of course, I have read most of it by now.
Ah well, there you have it. A wee rant. On the positive side, this place is like NYC, you can always get a taxi (except when it's raining or snowing) and these people have the gift of gab. One of my faves is when you are "tired" here, you are "knackered". Love that one.

Don't attack me people but I need help

Technical help and I can't find a button or anything. I started a topic that led to a very spirited discussion. Part of this included a lecture about wasting front page space. This time, how about somebody just try and help me?

I can't post to any of the comments in my thread, nor write my own comment, or other threads for that matter. It says "posting.................." attempt 1; attempt 2; attempt 3.. then "try again or cancel".

Since the only thing I've done successfully is start a topic, I am hoping that this posts.

Thanks in advance.

Sterling's Gold to be published Nov 2010

"Sterling's Gold" for sale.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/blog-post/2010/10/sterlings_gold_mad_men_book_fo.html

OFF SEASON OPEN THREAD (10-27-10)

Don Draper speaks!

SMALL ALMANAC OF ADVERTISING
or things that Don Draper could have spoken but not spoke. Maybe one day he speaks.

By ALTENIR SILVA

01 - Nobody knows better the product more that the owner.

02 - Research is good when we used our intuition.

03 - The best way to get an idea is to abandon the ideia.

04 - Campaign good does the advertising work disappear. Turn almost nature

05 - Conceptualizing a product imprison it forever in the mind of the advertiser.

06 - Jingle good is one where the painter whistling while paint the wall.

07 - A good slogan is worth a picture.

08 - The big challenge is to create something new based on something that exists but has not yet been realized.

09 - Advertising need and idea and not ideology.

10 - The best idea always comes after the campaign ends.

case closed

Slap Happy

So, Since Ms. Blankenship is on the Other Side and I have no other sources of sado-masachistic (Jeeze, I can't even spell it!) advice...What did Don get out of being bitch-slapped by the hooker? 'Cause I just don't get it. Sorry if this sounds naive.

Season 4 Red Herrings & the Search for Mrs. Draper 2.0

The ep2 seed that Don would remarry was planted when Faye reduced him to a "type" & predicted he would be remarried w/in year at the Christmas party. Don's strong annoyance at Faye was kind of the tip off to the audience that Faye's prophecy might possibly sprout true by ep13.

Did Matthew Weiner & Co. intend the audience to wonder who would end up as wife #2 throughout the season or was the finale engagement intended as a surprise?

Plenty of red herrings were introduced early on as Don's potential conquest(s) of the season. Maybe Don was unconsciously looking for wife #2 among them?

Red herrings: .

Phoebe the nurse (passed the caregiver test; flunked the babysitter test)
Allison the secretary (passed the caregiver test; passed the competent professional test; flunked the one night stand-no expectations test)
Bethany (flunked b/c she was Betty 2.0 & would flunk all the tests)
Prostitute (just kidding)

Finalists:

Faye (passed the caregiver test; passed the competent professional test; flunked the babysitter test)
Megan (passed the caregiver test; passed the competent professional test; passed the babysitter test; passed the one night stand-no expectations test)

Actually, the competition was unfair b/c Weiner & Co. rigged it so it was like Disney's Beauty fairytale princess rescuing the 2-sided Beast.

They endowed Megan with a rare combination of qualities culled from Don's other lovers from seasons 1-4!

Megan is a competent office professional like Allison (meaning modern/independent unlike Betty); has career ambitions like Faye & Rachel; has the sexual confidence/aggressiveness of Bobbie B in making the first sexual advance; has artistic interests like Midge; is a nurturing caregiver of kids like Suzanne; appears to be family-oriented w/apparently untroubled family ties like Rachel (unlike Suzanne); is educated with at least a college degree like Betty, Faye, etc.; plus of course, she is a knockout like all of Don's women.

Of course, maybe the lovely, prefect Megan will turn out to be one of Dr. Evil's Fembots in Season 5.

This is the drive-in from the finale

Here are some pictures of Bob's Big Boy Broiler in Downey, CA, 7447 E. Firestone BLV, were the restaurant scene (Megan-Don-Kids) was filmed
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/8Fozx_g8yfmsRywNzv1Dgg?select=VXrxkXdCBB8Gk9yvPWkCjA

A Mad Men Game--Who said that?

that girl started a fun new game over on the off season thread, but it has become so popular that we felt it deserved it's own thread! See inside for rules... :)

Open Question on Don/Bethany/Betty scene

This has been nagging me. In the scene where Betty and Henry run into Don and Bethany in the restaurant, after Betty and Henry go back to their table, Bethany asks Don who that was. When he says that it was his ex-wife, Bethany says, "No! Her?!"

What exactly is Bethany expressing shock at? Is it Betty's beauty? Her anger? What is so startling to Bethany?

(Also, can anyone tell me how to "follow" a post by getting an email when someone replies to it - whenever I select that, it says I need to add my email address, and it's already in my profile, so I don't know how to add it...any help appreciated)

Business opportunities lost in S4

A list of all the business SCDP turned away in S4:
- Jantzen
- Clearasil
- Honda
- Northwest Aviation

Any others?

Midge & Don's Past

OK, I obviously missed an episode because I cannot remember the character of Midge prior to episode 12, Blowing Smoke. Can someone please fill me in? Also, in one of the episodes this season, it is obvious Pete knows about Don's past but again, I can't recall ever seeing a converstion between he and Don about this. Thanks for your help!!

Nora Paradiso Haunted By "Shadaroba" Lyrics She Sang For Man Men Maddicts!

The Third Season Finale Song, Shadaroba, haunted me all through the Off Season empathizing with Don Draper and his losses, especially his love loss. I wondered if in Season 4, he would find a love. With his background I thought it not possible. I wondered how Matt would do it. AND, I saw! So, no wonder this song haunted me so in the off season prior to season 4, that I even had to dedicate it to Maddicts as per video I did! There's more....
You can pitch in too!

Roy Orbison - Shahdaroba

Where the Nile flows
And the moon glows
On the silent sand
Of an ancient land

When a dream dies
And the heart cries
Shahadaroba
Is the word they whisper low

Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
Means the future
Is much better than the past

Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
In the future
You will find a love that lasts

So when tears flow
And you don't know
What on earth to do
And your world is blue
When your dream dies
And your heart cries
Shahadaroba
Fate knows what's best for you

Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
Face the future
And forget about the past
Shahadaroba, Shahadaroba
In the future
You will find a love that lasts
Shahadaroba

New Off Season Open Thread

Nora Paradiso Says Mad Men Season Finale Is Series Finale

I truly believe that this is true! Keep on reading to see it's true:
I've skirted this issue all around the site, but, have been afraid to delve into for many reasons! There's just no need to keep our heads in the sand! There's closure, closure, closure with every character! I agree with MAW in thread "The Future of Mad Men"
Let's not forget Bert in last episode, a humorous exit, but a clean exit just the same! He didn't come back to finale!
I wondered about the plastic cup and the bottle that was left in the kitchen after Don and Betty leave though?! Nevertheless, we're are out of that house that we are so accustomed to visiting as an audience. Moving on...
I most definitely saw that MW said goodbye to his audience through his son, (Glenn's character). "It's alright, I'm used to saying goodbye to a lot of people".
There was no cliffhanger in the episode. None! And, there was none because there is not going to be another one!
On an industry business standpoint, Lionsgate and/or AMC or just Lionsgate or just AMC may bring back Mad Men, but not with Matt Weiner and some of the key players. They can capitalize with the following of this show. But, way back when, the show really struggled to keep its viewers. So, there were 2+ Million viewers in this finale and a single digit increase from last year's finale. It's a good viewership, but not a great one. AMC cannot carry a viewership like prime channels do or local channels period.
I feel that Matt really took us for a roller coaster ride with so many highs and lows to the end of the series for him! But, as he has written out this outcome, there is nowhere else to go! What's going to happen, Don spirals down again? Don lives an unreal fairytale life with his new wife? What? More deaths, more pregnancies? More marriages to secretaries? What? There are some ways to make it interesting, but it would turn out to be a CSI or Law & Order! Or, a "Stepford Wives". I have more folks, just ask me....

Reasons why Don should come to Montréal with Megan

1) Wouldn't be expected.
2) New advertising possibilities, new markets.
3) Expo 67.
4) Don could be at the forefront of film watching (http://nfb.ca/film/In_the_Labyrinth)
5) A French-Canadian and a world he doesn't totally understand would keep Don interested. (He always likes beginnings because he eventually thinks he knows what she is all about.)

Any other thoughts?

Season 4 Finale Reveal of Aesop's Fable of the Sun & Wind Theme/Motif Meaning

In "Summer Man", Faye mentions Aesop's fable of the sun & wind during her 1st date with Don. In that episode, it served as (1) Faye explaining her research technique to Don & (2) hinting at the approach that Don should take in courting her. However, the "Tommorrowland" s4 finale conclusion reveals that Matthew Weiner & Co. intended the fable to be one of the main themes/motifs for s4, in the context of who would ultimately win the Mrs. Draper lottery & also get him to begin confronting his issues. It turns out that all along in s4, the Sun=Megan; Wind=Faye; Traveler=Don; Don's Hiding/Denial of his True Identity = the Traveler's Coat.

S4 episodes included hints of which characters were the sun & wind. In "Beautiful Girls", Don says Faye's leg is cold; Blankenship characterizes Faye as "pushy" and that Faye "breezes" by her (like the wind); and Megan is wearing a yellow dress (a sun color) when Sally embraces her. Episode ended with Megan emotionally moved by Sally's dilemma while Faye can only selfishly think of the repercussions for her relationship with Don (Don: "What a mess"; Faye="Its not all bad, right?"). Faye & Megan's personalities are contrasted in several episodes: "The Rejected" shows opposite reactions to Allison's breakdown; Faye describes focus group as a success though 2 participants had emotional breakdowns (definitely a cold attitude); "The Suitcase" had Megan complimenting Peggy's professional success for her young age, contrasted with Faye's later rejection of Peggy's request to meet for drinks in "Blowing Smoke" (as a digression, the wide shot of a desk between Peggy & Faye is almost identical to a shot of a desk between Sally & Faye in "Beautiful Girls; its a visual signal of the emotional distance between her and 2 very important people in the life of her lover Don).

According to the fable, the more the wind blew, the closer the traveler held on to his coat. Well, in "Beautiful Girls" and "Tomorrowland," Faye (Wind) kept urging Don to deal with his Dick Whitman past to move forward. It seemed that everytime Faye "pushed" him to confront his issues, Don kept resisting (Traveler pulling his coat tighter). In contrast, on Don's California trip, he experiences Megan's mothering/nurtering, warmth, openness with both the kids & himself. Don is able to relax & play with his children. Moreover, it is a nervous Dick Whitman (not the usual suave Don seducer) that knocks on Megan's door & that is so love sick he is compelled to ask Megan if their 2d night assignation is just another one-night stand.

Ultimately, the Megan (Sun) loving effect on Don (Traveler) allows him to end up making progress in dealing with his past due & integrating to some extent Dick/Don (Traveler takes off his coat): (1) The day after the "Maria von Trap" scene, Don tells his kids that the "Dick" painted on the wall is his nickname and Stephanie smiles in approval (this is telegraphed to the audience as good progress b/c Stephanie is a surrogate for Anna b/c she is Anna's blood relative (who Anna was proud to say she had a hand in influencing) and like Anna, also knows the truth about Don); and (2) Don reflexively lies about the provenance of the engagement ring to Megan before correcting himself with the truth that it belonged to someone very important to him.

PLEASE, FACE THE TRUTH ABOUT BETTY!

But she WAS sexually molested by her dad growing up. Everything that she does and says is characteristically defined by this experience: her denial of reality, her terminal sadness, her tyrannical need to control things, her childish, victim like need to be rescued by men (or boys); her attitude towards Glen. Her memories are certainly still repressed, but certain events lift the denial for a quantum second before the curtain drops again.

Matt Weiner gave us his most direct clue to date in The Inheritance,Season 2. Her dementia-ridden father grabbed her ass and suggested they go upstairs. Betty drops the dishes, afraid, then quickly "pretends" that everything is ok.. she had a split moment when her repression was lifted, and then back to denial. Back at home, she tells Don that he is to stay moved out, despite the fact that they had sex at her dad's house, where they were "just pretending." I imagine that's what she associates with that house: a big game of make believe where everything is perfect.

When she discovers Glen later hiding in her back yard, she brings him in and feeds him. "I came to rescue you," he tells her. Male Rescue is her fantasy. She had thought she was being rescued by Don, then he betrayed her (although he had been probably betraying her all along; it was not until it was TOLD to her directly by Jimmy (vulgar comic), did she even see what was obvious all along. The first episode, all we see of Betty is her in bed, asleep, and waking up with happiness to Don. He has been out screwing Midge and coming home late while Betty peacefully "sleeps"--oblivious to truth.

Though she's not "improper" with Glen directly, a Sex Abuse Victim (SAV?) has improper boundaries. They have a subconscious obsession with understanding the sexual urge of an adult for a child. She felt a genuine affection for the boy as their respective sadness bonded her in a way. It's normal for him to reach out for a mommy figure, and normal for him to have a crush on a beautiful woman. It's not normal for HER to be so affected by him "wanting to rescue her". She moved him to adult role and thought he could understood her sadness and help stop it. She crosses a line with the hand holding, and when they're walked in on, it's obvious she knows it.

Remember how furious she had been with him (when they first met) when he walked in on her in the bathroom? That was forgiven later when he kept telling her how pretty she is, and he wants a lock of her hair. She KNOWS it's wrong. She objects, but it's like she can't help it. He thinks of her as this beautiful princess and a she needs to keep that fantasy going.

A woman who inherited, from her mother, an obsession with perfect looks (for sex is her only worth), and a developed instinct for denial--not seeing what is before you because to acknowledge would destroy your safe little world--made her a perfect for a man with a lot of secrets to marry.

EVIDENCE OF HER "REPRESSED AWARNESS/EMOTIONS":

Season one/episode 2
She's affected strongly (though stoically, of course) when Helen tells her that there is a divorcee moving down the street. Later, as she's driving past and actually sees her, her hands go numb and she crashes the car. The next scene we see is Don is bed with Midge, showing us exactly the reality Betty is suppressing, and illustrating by the numbness in her hands. She won't allow herself to face the truth and feel the pain, because that would mean ending up like Helen Bishop--somebody she pitied for being alone.

Earlier in this episode, she tells Mona Sterling that her mother had just died 3 months ago. This probably triggered some things for her. She still spends the whole first season madly in love with Don and obsessed with the idea of sex with him. "I think about this all the time."

Season 2/Episode 7: The Gold Violin
Jimmy the comic essentially TELLS her, and everybody at the restaurant, that Don and Bobbie slept together. This is the information she has been trying to keep closed off from her mind for a long time and she's been confronted with it directly. On the way home, she doesn't say a word, but she eventually throws up .. ending the show.

Symbolism:
Betty Draper is often seen lying down. Whether this is to symbolize the oblivion of sleeping, or a sexual act, I don't know.

When we first meet her she's asleep in bed. She is reclined much of Season One on her psychiatrist' leather daybed.

What did she buy when she fantasized about Henry Francis? A fainting couch.

In her melancholy at the end of "Tomorrowland" , she lay down in Sally's, not her own, bed. Was she mourning the house, or the loss of an innocent childhood?

ABOUT SALLY: Gramps molested her too. She and gramps got close when he came to die in her room. I know we thought it for a second when they were alone and the camera angle suggested something sinister. All we saw was him being a good grandpa and reading to her. Clever MW. That doesn't mean what we didn't see, didn't happen too. Relative pedophiles love these kids independent of sex too. It's so totally enmeshed that nobody knows what's right or wrong, (I mean, the adult KNOWS it's wrong; the child suspects) but they still love each other in their traditional roles. Her grandpa, who she had gotten close to, died, and she grieved. An advanced curiosity about sex manifested itself early this season with the masturbation.---MW IS DROPPING BREAD CRUMBS, FOLKS.

WHY BETTY'S FREAKING OUT ABOUT GLEN AND SALLY:
Glen had been forbidden to see Betty, and Betty knew, deep down, her thoughts had been wrong. As the consummate victim though, she assumes that Glen must have manipulated her. She gives him more power than he really has as a child, and thus, thinks he can't be trusted with Sally. Her DENIAL skill allows her this truth. Seeing Glen again challenges her denial. Sally tells her, "you don't know him at ALL." Betty may have a subconscious suspicion that her dad did something wrong with Sally. Sally may be at the age Betty was when she started getting molested, or whatever. There are many reasons she would act hatefully to Sally out of total dysfunction. She tries to make everybody else see it her way: Don, Carla, Henry and since she's the only one that sees it that way then "Nobody is ever on your side." She wants support for the "truth" she has convinced herself of, and obviously, she doesn't find it because she's ridiculous.

TOMORROWLAND
Her marriage to Henry is confirming her biggest fears: her beauty is ALL she has to offer a man. He knew nothing about her when they married, and now that he's getting to know her, he doesn't like her at all. She didn't know him either. He was simply her savior whom without she would have not have had the courage to leave Don.

So, her little batty eyelashes crap to Don is second nature--flirty because she needs some validation from a man--or to be saved. His telling her he was engaged was extremely painful for her to realize he was no longer an option to provide these things to her. In spite of that pain, she put on the damndest, most mature front her disturbed little heart could muster. I was really very proud of Betty then.

SEASON 5: TELL US ALREADY
Matt Weiner is brilliant; he writes script as it honestly would have happened and truth is that this subject was NOT discussed in the 60's. These women were TRULY isolated because the nightmare they were living was not identified in pop culture, or CERTAINLY not investigated by male psychologists, such as Betty's, who unethically reported her sessions to Don. She could be one of those many women who pretended that something never happened for so long that they never do remember it-- they just remain utterly confused by the demolition they have wrecked on their own lives and happiness.

I'm hoping the current female shrink that both Betty and Sally see will illuminate the truth directly, even if subtly. The viewers, are HATING Betty. They are not finding her a sympathetic character and MW is not understanding why. Well, it's because we need to be told what he already knows. We may never hear a word again about Joan being raped, BUT, we are aware of the experience.. and as such we sympathize with her for it.. and view her and her marriage more tragically than we would have otherwise. Betty Draper needs this redemption too.
With all the focus on the women's issues, let's cowboy up and take this one step further, and have season 5 deal with this difficult and painful reality that continues to permeate our current generation of women.

I apologize for the essay, but I felt like you folks needed a jolt out of denial as well.

The Future of Mad Men

Does anyone else think that the Season 4 finale seems like a series finale?

I am wondering where this series will go from this point. IMO, there seems to be so much closure.

We spent the entire season focusing on Don's painful path to self discovery, only to have it end with Don keeping his head in the sand. I can not envision yet another season of the same. IMO, Don has chosen to live the rest of his life with a woman who he does not know, and who does not know him...a woman who will take care of him, and go to bed with him. I can not envision Don living a life as an equal partner in a relationship. Don represents the past, who will be replaced by people like Peggy.

Likewise, I felt that there was closure to the story line of Joan and her pregnancy. Although I have speculated on further melodramatic events revolving around Joan's pregnancy, I also saw the possible end of that story line in the Season 4 finale. IMO, the telephone conversation between Joan and Greg showed them as a couple who love each other, anticipating the arrival of their child. It seems that it will all work out.

I also saw closure for:

Joan and Peggy, in that wonderful scene in Joan's office. They have finally bonded. They are on the same team.

SCDP is showing that it is taking positive steps toward a successful future.

Peggy is successful in her chosen career.

Roger shows pride in his role as an executive with a twenty-something year old former secretary wife, and is pleased that Don is about to join him in this cliched group.

Glen has said his "goodbye" to Sally, and Sally has graciously accepted that she will move on.

Betty has said "goodbye" to the home that she once shared with Don, as well as to any possibility of a future with Don.

I am interested in hearing how other fans would envision Season 5 and the eventual series finale.

Number of episodes per season

Matthew, why just 13? We're all depressed and heartbroken tonight!

What Are Their Signs?

I'm going to take a stab at what signs our favorite characters are. Here's my guesses:
Don - Sagittarius
Roger - Leo
Peggy - Capricorn
Burt - Aquarius
Joan - Gemini
Betty - Virgo
Pete - Scorpio
Faye - Aries
Anna - Libra
Megan - Cancer
Abe - Aquarius
Freddie - Pisces
Trudy - Taurus
Midge - Aquarius

Care to play?

Anna

What is the relationship to Don?

Sunday Night is the Loneliest Night of the Week

Sunday night is the loneliest night in the week.
Now that Mad Men has left me,
My Sundays are dreary and bleak.

Saturday night is no trouble at all,
'Cause that's the night friends come to call,
And my Monday thru Friday flies by so fast
That before I know it another week's in the past.

Oh, Sunday night sure causes me grief,
'Cause I miss those ad men, and there's no relief,
So I'll sing this song and continue to moan
About Betty and Don and Roger and Joan.

I don't know how long I can last,
'Cause I need to find out about Don and his past.
Oh, Sunday night is the loneliest night of the week....
Christ on a cracker, won't somebody pour me a drink?

(With sincere apologies to Sammy Cahn, whose wonderful lyrics I have severely mangled in my need to vent.)

Megan

She has designs on getting ahead at the SCDP; just wait!

New TV Series Take off of Mad Men (Also Set in the 60's)

Which Character would you carry from Mad Men to a new episode set in the 60's. Remember this episode is a lighter side of Mad Men with didactic stories and morals.
I would pick Sally with new Parents (don't know what happened to Don and Betty). A big family in an Upper MIddle Class neighborhood. I, Nora Paradiso, would play the Matriarch, of course, of this great family!

Will Don & Bett Get Back Together at End of Season 5?

Don ("Summer Man"): "We're flawed because we want so much more. We're ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had."

Anyone else think the purpose of setting up the couplings of Betty-Francis at end of season 3 & Don-Megan at end of season 4 was to engineer that Don & Betty will reunite at end of season 5? I'm sure Matthew Weiner has an overall story arc for where the characters will end up.

Was Matthew Weiner creating a parallel with Betty thinking about something (past w/Don?) in Sally's bed; with the final shot of Don in bed with Megan thinking about something (his shared past w/Betty) aka they are both longing for what they had?

Personally, I don't want ot see them back together as I think it would be too typical soap opera/fan wish fulfillment writing.

Maddict Awards - season 4

Here are some suggested categories.

1. Best character appearing in 1 episode:

2. Best new (recurring) character:

3. Best song closing credits:

4. Best song in episode:

5. Best returning character:

6. Best set:

7. Best dress or costume:

8. Best ad:

9. Best prop:

10. Best hook-up:

11. Best one-liner:

12. Best 'thread', other than the open thread:

Most Recommended now displays S4E13 OPEN THREAD

I guess 20 is the magic number. Can everyone else see it listed on the right under Most Recommended?

Maybe a few more recommends wil bring it up to the top of the list!

Thank you to Everybody who took the chance on a little unknown and hit Recommend !

Please continue to Recommend S4E13 Open Thread :-)

Jon Hamm to Host SNL October 30!

...I'm so there!

I'm on Team Coop

Personally I'm getting a little tired of all the Megan/Faye/Peggy chatter. Has nobody noticed that Bert Cooper just walked out of the agency??? There goes possibly the most enigmatic, wise and scene stealing character on the show, and all everyone talks about is Megan/s teeth. Remember who got Don to sign the contract, Cooper is not a benign character; he is still a killer.

OFF SEASON OPEN THREAD

Thanks, renro for looking into having this type of thread appear at begining. In the meantime, I'll post another pseudo Open Thread so we won't be having to scroll down so much!

Life and Work

In the finale, Joan tells Peggy "I've learned a long time ago not to get all my satisfaction from this job". To which Peggy memorably answers: "Bullshit", and the two women burst into laughter. I think I speak for many viewers if I say that I was waiting for these two to finally show complicity and mutual understanding.

Most importantly, this conversation demonstrates that according to MM, the true source of happiness is work, not private life. Ask Joan, with her rapist husband, and her future bastard child. Ask Don and Betty, with their wretched marriage and divorce, and their shell-shocked children. Ask Roger with his ridiculous and unhappy second marriage. Ask Peggy, who broke up with her boyfriend to spend a memorable, sexless night with her boss in "The Suitcase". Ask Don, whose private life has always been a disaster zone, and whose only successes come from work. Ask even Pete and Trudy, the happiest couple on the show, who are in many ways a work team, Trudy being a smart advisor to her husband. Life is work, that is the lesson of MM, where the only happiness comes from your profession, not your love or marital life.

Where did the SCRAP BOOK go?

It's not under photos or blogs or even listed in the search engine. Please bring it back.

On the positive side, there is a Mad Men Season 4 poll to vote for your favorite episode of the season, A Mad Men Fan Quiz, and the Mad Men Trivia quiz!

Could it be that Don had a touch of "Paul McCartney-itis?"

Back in the day Sir McCartney was dating and later engaged to Jane Asher (she was Annie, the redhead in the film "Alfie" with Michael Caine - a brilliant film btw-- I recommend watching it if you've never seen it) Anyway, Sir McCartney cheats on Jane (with a woman named Fannie Schwartz while she is away working on Romeo and Juliet at the Old Vic in London), Jane leaves him and a few months later he reportedly starts dating one Linda Eastman. Linda has a daughter from another marriage but Paul reportedly says that he is attracted to her for her maternal instincts initially, plus she cooked and filled his fridge with real food which according to him previously consisted of molded cheese and baking soda). Could it be this is what Don is looking for? the mother/caretaker he never had and not so much an equal spouse but someone who is comfortable in being in a relationship that is sooo skewed Money-wise, Age-wise and everything else wise. I think that the choice is clear - he wants his Linda and not a Yoko (not that there is anything wrong with Yoko she was good for John Lennon).
This is a problem when you are looking for a partner to put you on the right path or chase your boogey- monsters away. It just sets the other person up for failure -- after all Don has some major issues.

Peggy Olson this is your Life OR A truly fascinating Documentary about the real Mad Men

There is a really interesting new documentary about advertising called Art and Copy" which will air on Independent Lens series on PBS. It explores the relationship between Art and Copy in advertising.
One person to keep an eye on in the film is Mary Wells (not the Motown singer who sang "My Guy"). Mary Wells owned her own agency (her name was first Wells, Rich, and Greene) and was responsible for some really great Ad copy and concepts including "the Rebel" ad which is featured in the promo. All I can say is I can totally see Peggy as a Mary Wells type (maybe she was modeled after her?
Here is the URL
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/art-and-copy/film.html

Dream Sequence?

It just doesn't figure , Don getting engaged...

Matthew Weiner's Season 4 Massive Foreshadowing of Megan/Faye/Don Triangle

I can't believe some Mad Men fans out there were surprised at the eventual outcome of the finale and who Don picked. Leading up to the finale, I rewatched the season's epsiodes and noticed there was a lot of mainly visual foreshadowing of the Don/Megan/Faye triangle and the eventual outcome besides what was obvious upon first viewing. Here goes my list of foreshadowing events: (1) In the "Christmas comes..." Christmas party, there is actually a shot of Megan between Don and Lee although Megan is flirting with Lee & Don doesn't notice Megan; (2) "The Rejected": in the aftermath of the focus group there is a contrast of Faye and Megan's personalities in front of Don in the observation room when Megan comes in to ask how Allison is doing and unconcerned Faye having already forgotten Allison says "Who?"; (3) "Beautiful Girls" was major with the visual cues: (4) Don & Faye are having a conversation about Sally when Megan interrupts by returning Blakenship's chair; (5) when Blakenship's body is rolled out, the parallel between Joan comforting Roger and camera pans to Megan comforting Don; (6) of course, there is the Sally hug moment when Megan was the only woman in the office to hug Sally; (7) Megan is in the same shot with Don and Sally meeting Betty at reception; the other women follow behind; (8) In "Hands & Knees", Faye & Don are embracing in his office when Megan's buzz interrupts them; (9) Don's accountant expresses his hope that Don is schtupping Megan; (10) there is the last shot of Don staring enigmatically at Megan with the instrumental of the Beatles love song "Do you want to know a secret" playing; (11) In "Chinese Wall", Don doesn't just want to just leave after schtuping Megan but wants to continue their encounter by asking her to dinner; (12) a visual parallel is made between unhappy Roger' (who loves another) having Jane put his arm around her and a post-coital Don having Faye put his arm around her as the last shot; (13) In "Blowing Smoke", John Slattery frames a shot of Megan in the distance literally between Faye & Don in the conference room; and (14) as recounted by other bloggers, Don & Megan walk side by side (like a bride & groom) in the office & encounter Faye outside his office. Did I miss any other foreshadowing hints? Once Chekov's gun aka Anna's engagement ring showed up in the finale, the choice was a done deal since Weiner set up Megan as the come from behind dark horse candidate in the Mrs. Draper sweepstakes.

The Twiggy effect

I asked on the Open Thread about the model Twiggy, not knowing much about her, but have heard of her effect on fashion, ads and women's self image for as long as I can remember.

Marmacat brought up how this might effect Joan (especially with her pregnancy). There are very few natural Twiggy type woman.

How has Twiggy changed the concept of the ideal woman? Marilyn was a size 14, and Twiggy?

Does Twiggy still have influence on a woman's self image? I would be particularly interested in POV's from women who lived through the change and which type men find ideal, Marilyn or Twiggy?

How will Joan and the rest of the the crew respond? Is it an issue that MW can ignore when writing about advertising, or will it be incorporated into the show somehow?

I'm on Team Peggy

No one asked about Peggy. It was either Betty (she's history), Faye (ditto) and Megan (adorable, french-speaking, but rather sudden, no?) I vote for Peggy. I was happy to see that my choice of Suitcase (episode 407) was validated BY FAR as the most popular episode of season 4. When Don falls asleep with his head in Peggy's lap and the next morning when he puts his hand on hers, you know there's a special connection. Remember in episode 101 when SHE put her hand on HIS? He removed it - made her feel as if she'd overstepped her bounds, but he told her to go home, tomorrow is another day. Well, now it was in reverse. I thought they would have a future together, but sometimes that close special relationship is better than a marriage.

Clara's Exit

Betty wouldn't give Carla a letter of recommendation after all those years? Dang! Betty is a super witch. Henry seems to be sick of her self center behind.
Perhaps Henry will give Carla a reference. And Don should step up too once he finds out Betty wouldn't even give her a reference. And what's going to happen when the children (well Sally anyway) find out what Betty has done to Carla. Sally is already close to putting some extra sleeping pills in Betty's drink.

Maria von Trapp vs. the Baroness Schraeder? or the "Maidenform" Redux the wifey edition

Here is a point that I made in a previous posting. I think that episode Tomorrow Land should have been called the Maidenform Redux. Once again we have dichotomous image of women - The Young earnest wide eyed secretary who is kind and good (Maria Von Trapp) or the Strong self-assured self reliant career woman ( the Baroness) . Mr. Weiner played the Disney Motif big time . Was it me or did you expect Megan to start singing and little birds and animals following her everywhere she went?. Ever since Season 3, (see: Suzanne Farrell) Don appears to be gravitating towards females who are caretakers? what's that about?. Is he mourning his childhood is it that he needs someone who accepts him as is (without wanting to change him?). Comments?

What has happened to Don Draper?

He's taken the easy road with Megan, for sure. She's great with the kids, she has some Va Va Voom, at least in a French way. What bothers me is that as soon as we get some female interests of substance (Menken and Faye) they are despatched. Call it Draper aplomb or the writers suspense. Rachel Menken needs to brought back to the show. The chemistry between Draper and Menken was smoking hot, I was cooking marsh mellows on kebab sticks during their scenes, smoke alarm was full tilt. If Midge the artist/ heroin addict received a recall then get Utopos back in the mix. Do the viewing public a favour, please ding Betty. To the writers of this show: Significantly Above Target. But, feel free to deliver Goliath Draper pitches, Untapped Bert Cooper history, Connie Hilton or maybe Aristotle Onassis in Season 5. SCDP battling with the other agencies sounds excellent

All Things Mad Men and Some Things Not

The Open Thread has become so large, I am finding it hard to navigate, so I, Zerelda, am hereby starting this Thread to talk about Mad Men and whatever else your little hearts desire. (Will be interesting to see how long it lasts....my posts have been prone to disappear recently....very mysterious....I am attributing it to the Zombies who seem to be popping up all over this Forum.....anyone would think Halloween was just around the corner.)

Need help with MadMen trivia for party tonight!

Hi, I'm having friends over tonight to watch the season finale (which I recorded last Sunday and we're all dying to see!) I want to play a game in which I tape a card stating a MadMen item on the back of each of my guests. They can ask the other guests yes/no questions to find out what their item is. I need 8 items. I'm thinking: Joan's pen necklace (I think that's what it's called), Roger's toy on his office table that tips its head into a bowl of water (what is that toy called?!) ... I'd love suggestions for items relating to Peggy, Don, Betty, etc. Does anyone have any good ideas that are challenging and not too obvious (ie. Lucky Strikes would be too easy to guess!) Thanks so much!

To AMC about posts on the front page

Would it be possible to keep the open thread at the top of the front page?

Two Maddicts to Meet for Lunch

Margaret, a Maddict from the Jersey Shore (not that one) is driving from Barnegat, NJ to meet me for the first time for lunch in the Philadelphia suburbs on Thursday. We exchanged email addresses and chatted about our favorite show several times. Now we are meeting in person. Mad Men has allowed me to make friends with some wonderful people. Have any of you done the same?

Mad Men Halloween Costumes

Yesterday's New York Post showed costumes for Don and Joan. Are you wearing a costume on Halloween? If so, what are you going as?

BLUE EYED WONDERS

Anyone notice that the majority of the actors on Madmen have blue eyes? it hit me the other night when I was watching the videos on this site. I think Faye is the only actress with brown eyes. I know Matt only hires actors/actresses who have a sense of humor but are fair eyes also a requirement? Fair eyed people are historically artistic people.....Matt- you have hit a home run with this cast.

Megan IS a Playa!

Yes I am sure there are people out there who would disagree but after watching Season 4, Megan totally blind-sided Dr. Faye (the Psychologist! who should know people and their types). Could it be that Don chose Megan because he wants a wifey and not a psychologist. A Step Mommy for his kids and maybe a French speaking show piece for those client and not someone who would talk about complicated things like social marketing and surveys.
No, I think that it was more of an inside job. As his secretary, Ms. Clavet, knew Don better than Faye.

Two Hundred Sixty Days (Approximately)

Now that the season is over, I wait in anticipation of the moment Joan explains to her husband the 'premature' or 'overdue' birth of their child.

The first season, a huge hub bub revolved around Peggy's pregnancy (and her denial of it) beyond the baby's actual delivery. I predict a similar upheaval over whether Greg will figure it out the baby Joan carries could not possibly be his. I'll wait for the moment we first see the baby to see whether the baby will look like its father (physically or genetically). I'll wonder if the baby's natural father eat his own words and seek a relationship with it?

I now know Matt Weiner and his associate writers have a fascination with the variances of childbirth. It's a topic where there will be heated discussions and no clear-cut answer. Greg will not bother to count the days Joanie is pregnant or question the word of his devoted wife because the miracle of childbirth is where lines are fluid and the possibilities in childbirth endless. Of the millions of children born worldwide, you must concede that a woman could go through an entire pregnancy and not know it and could induce labor to reconcile the date the baby 'should' be born or explain away reasons why it is seven weeks late.

Men are so naïve...even if their profession is obstetrics...particularly if the situation is one they're involved in and they are as excited as Greg seemed to be. Mad Men will show us how easily fooled even the smartest man could be. Because of conniving women (with their own reasons and motives), many men have raised and supported children without ever questioning their connection genetically. I haven't figured out why Joan decided to have the baby and whether her choice be one she regrets.....

A Wish for Season 5

Once upon a time, way back in the '60s, there was a TV western that I liked to watch......hello, my name is Zerelda, and I like cowboys. Yes, I admit it, but I must now hasten on to the point of this Thread before the off topic police start banging on my door. This particular western was called "The Virginian", and the unique thing about it at a time when TV westerns were all over the dial, was the fact that it was 90 minutes long.....that's right, a whole hour and a half long.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Mad Men could come back with Season 5 and be an hour and a half long every episode? Just think how much more Matt Weiner and his writing team could pack into 90 minutes. Every time I watch an episode of Mad Men, when the music starts and the credits roll, I am left wanting more. I know that is a sign of a well written and acted drama, but I don't care.....I want more.....more, more and then some more.

At least the finale should be 90 minutes.....just think how much better this season's last show could have been had the writers been given 90 minutes to fill instead of 60.....which we didn't even actually get once the commercials are thrown in.

So that is what I want for Season 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 or however many seasons we have left of this wonderful show. Are you listening, Mr. Weiner? Give us 90 minutes of Mad Men for every episode. If you can't do that, how about stretching a couple episodes out to 90 minutes or a whole 2 hours even. Oh, my stars, a 2 hour Mad Men episode!!!! Maddicts everywhere would be swooning....where is Betty's fainting couch when we need it?

Cool Glasses

Without doubt, "Mad Men" is the coolest tv series to hit the airways in long time...I was wondering, does anyone know where I can purchase the iconic silver rimmed drinking glasses used in virtually every scene in Don and Roger's office? I'm UK-based so will need to buy online. Anyone of my US- Cousins out there who can help a Brit-Fan?...

The times of Mad Men

As the timeline in Mad Men progresses, and the year's fade away, will the show lose some of its sparkle? There's no doubt that some of the show's allure can be attributed to the time period. The clothing. The smoking. The drinking in the office. How do you feel about the show as it slowly "modernizes" itself?

Marilyn Monroe and Faye Miller

Was just reading the Vanity Fair piece on Marilyn Monroe (Nov 2010?), and in 1960 or so, she was locked into a psychiatric hospital for three days under the assumed name of Faye Miller. I find this a bit more than coincidental, with Dr Faye Miller being both blonde and a psychiatrist. What are everyone's thoughts?

Video Interview: Jon Hamm, Elisabeth Moss

Jon Hamm & Elisabeth Moss interviewed by World Screen in Cannes.
http://worldscreen.com/pages/multimedia?bcpid=35793088001&bclid=4579936001&bctid=641829682001

Don Draper Carousel quote used on award by city in N.C.

The managing editor for the paper I work at was recognized by the Burlington, N.C., city council for a series he did commemorating the centennial anniversary of the carousel in the city's park. Apparently, the city manager searched the Internet for an appropriate quote and thought Draper's Carousel speech was a good one to use, which it was, but the manager doesn't watch "Mad Men"
Here's a link to the award story, there's a BlackBerry photo with it that I took of the plaque with the quote on it:
http://www.thetimesnews.com/news/-37908--.html

Paul Kinsey Sighting (Michael Gladis)

Saw him tonight on Law & Order SVU
He looked a bit heavier and his hair was mussed - took a few minutes for me to recognize him. But I'm glad to see he's working.

will they update the intro?

does anyone think they will update the advertisements seen in the show's intro? the artwork seen as the silhouette man falls looks like something from the late 50s/early 60s, but the show has now moved into the tumultuous mid-60s. will that be reflected in new pictures seen in S5's introduction?

personally, i think it is too cool looking to change. but i want to see what others think!

Tomorrowland or Fantasyland?

An excellent analysis of S4 E13, "Tomorrowland":

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/heather_havrilesky/index.html?story=/ent/tv/heather_havrilesky/2010/10/18/mad_men_finale_recap

All About Betty

Someone on another thread said Betty should be excused because she had to put with all of Don's lying and cheating during their marriage. My question: Do you think Betty would be different in her relationships with her husband, children and other people if Don had been more loving, honest and faithful? Is it her hurt over his betrayals that have made her who she is, a cold, vindictive woman who can't seem to show her own children any affection and is already clearly unhappy with her new husband? In other words, how much responsibility does Don bear for Betty being Betty?

Peggy and Don

I cannot remember if Don and Peggy were intimate the night they slept in his office...I know Don was drunk just received bad news from California

Everyone's a Baby

Something I have noticed in this show is how few adults there are in the show. Case in point Mrs. Betty Francis who at the surface looks like a well manicured housewife but has the emotional development of a five year old.
Don can't get past his childhood, he appears to go for an idealized caring and non judgmental mate (see: Farrell, Suzanne and Megan).
And then there is Roger the biggest baby of them all, instead of facing the loss of Lucky Strike like a man and tell the others what happened.. he buries his head in the sand.
Guess the only grown-ups left are Peggy, Carla, Sally, Joan, Henry Francis, Ken, and Pete (well Pete moves up to adolescent this season).

Who kinda digs Henry?

I really didn't like the guy at first, but I have to say..... I've been pleasantly surprised by his "man of the house" demeanor, his challenging Betty on her pettiness and other things. Plus, I like the way he moves, with and without a shirt on ;) I am on Team Henry! Gimme a H! Gimme a E!.... la, la, lah...

Season 4 Episode 13 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 13, "Tomorrowland."

Who's on Megan team?

I would be really curious to know how many Maddicts are on Megan team for next season. This little survey could also serve as a barometer for what is likely to happen in season 5, or just to let people vent their frustration about this turn of the story.
Personally, I'm on Megan team. I don't dislike the other women Don has been with, but I just think Megan seems like a balanced person - with unperfect teeth - and that she has a potential to be a great partner for Don. Maybe she even has a past that she is not proud of. My hope is that she will not be too disappointed when she finds out all about Don (I think he will tell her his story, it only makes sense that he does). So be my guest and let's talk about Megan.

Sal gives it back!

I was leafing through Romantic Homes magazine and saw an article about Bryan Batt (Sal) and his store in New Orleans, Hazelnut. He really gives back to New Orleans. If you want to read more, go to hazelnutneworleans.com

Season 5 Predictions Anyone???

What do you think/want the future to hold for the next season of Mad Men? Be serious or be fun...MW never lets us be right anyway!!!

Season 4 Episode 13 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 13, "Tomorrowland"? Post the exact quote below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

What is the Current Mad Men date- Fall 1965?

What is the current Mad Men date where we left off? They mentioned a Monday holiday? I think the last season ended in December 1964 and this one started in 1965?

Whisky-A-Go-Go....Did You Ever Go-Go There?

O.K., Maddicts of a certain age, time to tell all....how many of you ever made it to Whisky-A-go-Go, and/or wore white go-go boots and a dress with fringe?

Check out the Photo... who does it remind you of?

Go to: www.amctv.com/originals.

The photo of egan sitting on Don's lap in the orange-y dress. DOESN"T THAT LOOK JUST LIKE RACHEL MENCKEN?? Wow....

Don and Megan

After episode 7, The Suitcase, I posted a thread titled 'Don and Peggy' : Could it be so simple, that Peggy needs a father figure, and Don needs some mothering (which Betty lacks the skills for), so together they make a 'family'?

Now, after 'Tomorrowland' it looks like I got it wrong.

Here's my 're-boot'.

Could it be so simple, that Megan is a good babysitter , and Don needs a babysitter (which Dr. Faye lacks the skills for), so together they make a 'family'?

Ugly Betty

I kept wondering what Betty's vehement hatred for Glen was all about. A hatred so deep that she fired Carla instantly and without remorse for letting him into the house. Carla who has been so faithful to the children for years. Then it "Don"ed on me. Betty equates Glen with being a lowlife and beneath her daughter. The same as Don was really Dick a hick from the sticks who duped her. Little things she says , " I know him better than you " It was transferrance. at the same time, based on the friendly scene between (Betty) and Don at the end of the finale, I think she is the type of person that doesn't want him yet doesn't want someone else to have him. I really like Megan and can see what Don sees in her beyond her looks and her tenderness with the children. Don needs a woman in his life and a family. But I can't see this wedding happening or lasting. Don can't not always "need a new beginning" Its his heroin. He constantly needs to have a conquest and I woud hate to see that happen to Megan. Something is going to happen with this engagement. Megan will die or call it off or Betty will interfere. the suspense will kill me all winter.

Megan's teeth WIN!

sorry, I couldn't help myself....it's just that the vitriol directed at the Megan character by some of the posters here was a bit much, IMO....when Don said " I love your teeth" I laughed out loud and thought of this talk forum.....it probably won't last, but for now, good for you Megan/ Jessica Pare', you are gorgeous, teeth and all!

oops not historical

Not a common name in the 60s. She was born in 40s so not a name used then. Even though she is French or Canadian French; not a French name either. oops Mad Men - not historical.

Why does MM like to skip over important moments in the characters' lives?

I'm still not sure how I feel about the season finale. Still mulling it over. It left us with the characters heading in new directions: Don's engagement, the future of Betty's marriage, Joan's baby, the fate of SCDP. And what I am upset about is when the new season picks up, we will have missed out on the the things we want to see most. Judging by the amount of MM time that spans between seasons, we'll probably miss all of Joan's pregnancy, Don's wedding, the downward spiral of Betty marriage and how SCDP fares in its tough times. I would've also loved to have seen Sally's and Bobby's reaction to the wedding news. I am a maddict through and through, but I have to say that I feel so cheated out of these great moments. At the end of Season 3, SCDP had just formed, and Don's marriage ended. We missed out on how the company got its offices and more business and how Don dealt with his divorce. We also didn't get to see the start of Betty's marriage or how the kids initially reacted to their new stepfather.
Obviously we can't get inside of MW's head, but I wonder why he sets up the season enders the way he does. Why does he not want the viewers to see these moments? I know we can't see every moment of these fantastic characters, but come on! Anything else you think we'll miss during the break?

A Retro Visit to Disneyland

Take a gander in the scrapbook at the old Disneyland Map: http://blogs.amctv.com/photo-galleries/mad-men-season-4-scrapbook/disneyland-map.php

So, Maddicts, if you were back in time and had that map, what rides would you go on? Or, putting it another way, if you were ever at Disneyland back in the day, what were your fave rides?

Groundhog Day

Did anyone else notice that the Sonny and Cher song at the end of the season finale was the same song Bill Murray awoke to every morning in Groundhog Day? As in "same thing, different day"? Wow! Coincidence? If not, BRAVO!

I'm not convinced Don is "in love"...

Don still thinks he can FIND himself through other people. I'm not even sure the engagement will last.
He would do himself a favor to concentrate on his job and being the best Dad he can be to those kids who need him. The last episode (great as it was) left me an uneasy feeling .....something is not right in Happyville, New York!! Thoughts?

Faye is not Betty

I see a lot of posts that think Faye is like Betty, and I can understand why one might think that, but I think we need to realize that the decision between Faye and Megan was not between a Betty Clone and something different. To be fair, I think Don mistakes Faye for a Betty type, too, at first.

Yet though Faye shares Betty's blond hair, she isn't as much like Betty as her cool exterior might make her seem at first glance. Like Don, she only looks "cool." Unlike Betty, Faye comes from a lower-class background and worked her way to her position. She and Don go to simple restaurants and share a simple sandwich lunch at his place. No upscale restaurant or meeting at fancy hotels. They both care about their work.

Faye recognizes Don for who and what he is (a "two bit hood"), and is never fooled by his "disguise," as Betty was for years. Faye argues for ethics, like an adult. She thinks of others, not just of herself. There is nothing child-like or capricious as there is about Betty. And when Don admits the truth to Faye, she doesn't judge him, she comforts him. Betty instantly judged him and couldn't comfort him. Betty stopped loving him. Faye went on loving him.

Faye actually has more in common with both Rachel and Anna. Rachel was also a cool woman, and like Faye (who is also Jewish) an outsider, a woman who has learned how to carve out a place for herself in a man's world. Faye even has a bit of Anna about her. She knows human psychology like Anna, she's accepting of human frailties and faults. People open up to her and she listens. She is, in her way, unconventional, going for being single rather than, as Betty did, going for that American princess dream of being a wife and mother.

Remember, Anna was also a blond, so maybe what Don saw was after he got to know Faye better was not Betty, but Anna. But there is one thing that makes Faye similar to Betty. She's not "motherly." And that, obviously, was critical to Don. But I think my point is, that it's not so simple as "Faye's just another Betty." Bethany was, as even Don recognizes in "The Summer Man." But not Faye. I really don't think Faye and Betty have that much in common.

"Sterling's Gold"?

Did Roger Sterling write a book?

What did Megan say to her mother?

Does anyone know what Megan said to her mother in French after Don proposed?

ROGER STERLING

WHICH EPISODE SHOWED ROGER OPENING A CARDBOARD BOX OF COPIES OF HIS BOOK, 'STERLING'S GOLD'?

Mad Man Silhouette - who is it?

Although the Mad Men Logo that depicts the silhouette of a man casually sitting in a chair or sofa is probably Don Draper, sometimes I think it's Roger Sterling. Does anyone know who actually posed for the image?

Matthew Weiner Explains Last Night's Finale

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/10/matthew_weiner_defends_betty_draper.html?mid=agenda--20101018

Megan Speaks!

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/10/mad_mens_megan_speaks.html?mid=agenda--20101018

"I'm not Pete."

I've always enjoyed the Pete/Ken dynamic, ever since Pete was seething at the fact that Ken had a story he penned published. They are both very good at what they do, they just do it very differently from each other, as beautifully illustrated by Lane last season when Ken won the promotion. As minor as the scene was in the finale, I liked seeing Ken sticking up for his own methods, ones that don't involve chasing down family members for potential business, and keeping his "actual life" a high priority -- unlike Pete, who not only wheels and deals with his own father-in-law, exploiting that relationship to the fullest, but even practically hauled his own father's casket into the boardroom to win American Airlines.

You'd think that Ken's refusal to mix family and business would be a firing worthy offense, but I loved how he reminded everyone that runs nearly a third of the agency's remaining accounts (and now add Topaz Pantyhose to that) and walked out the door to do what he always does: produce results. I can just imagine Pete damning Ken and his hair.

"Two Out of Three Ain't Bad"

Next year Don will be singing this to Megan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGEIcdYOuHo

Tid Bits

What little morsels did you see?

Joan's Pregnancy

Hi. Lurker here. Glad to see Mrs. Harris kept her baby. Saw Christina Hendricks on "Ellen," and wow, what a lovely girl. Hope some folks who got upset a few episodes back find out Joan's gonna have a little bundle of joy.

What's up with Harry Crane?

First he comes off looking like a lech around Carolyn Jones, the fired Topaz pantyhose model.

Then when Ken's telling Peggy about being invited to make a pitch for the Topaz account, Henry butts in and steals some of Ken's thunder.

Is Harry having problems? At work? At home?

Dr. Fay & Diamond Ring

Was it me or was she wearing a diamond & wedding band while on the phone with Don?

Potential for a Black Character

Each week of Mad Men is practically perfection, so it's hard to be critical of anything about the show. In today's NYT interview the question of black character came up. I'm certain that the ad world then was pretty much lily white. But I think the person of Roquel "Billy" Davis would be a perfect prototype. He worked for McCann and wrote the famous Coca-Cola jingles of the 60's and early 70's. He wrote most of Jackie Wilson's hits, was involved with the Gordy family and present during the creation of Motown Records, and was a major figure at Chess. No offense, but I think the black girlfriend angle is a bit tired, and jingles would be a perfect way to bring in a person of color.

Peggy - Saved the Company?

So Peggy brought in a $250,000 account. Like that's supposed to be replace the $20million loss of Lucky Strike? And yet she thinks she "saved the company". What's up with her oh-so-superior self-opinion?

We Were Wrong (again).... Oh well

1. The show did not deal with the NYC blackout.
2. Conrad Hilton made no reappearance.
3. The mouse apparently signified nothing.
4. Tomorrowland had nothing to do with buying swamnpland in Florida.
5. Sal did NOT come back.

What else?

Why does Betty dislike young Glen so much

Early in the series she befriended Glen, but now she seems to hate him Anyone know why?

Mad Men office floor plan

In order to celebrate the 4th season finale of Mad Men (which I think was the best season yet), I came up with a silly idea to create a floor plan of the infamous Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce offices. I did it with an online tool called Floor Planner and it took me quite a while to get all the details right (a lot of fast-forwarding and freeze-framing through episodes).

Hope you enjoy it!

http://www.kratkocasnik.com/blog/2010/10/mad-men-office-floor-plan/

Contest time!

Okay guys, the season is over. We either liked or didn't like the finale, but we all know where we will be come premiere time next year---glued to the TV. Now it is contest time (they usually do a caption contest or something to keep up interest on the site) so what would you like to see and what prizes would you like to win?

Season 4 Episode 13 - Pre-Show Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 13, "Tomorrowland," before the episode airs.

Questions, questions, questions

Ok fellow MM fans, maybe you clear up some of the following for me:
Was Betts deliberately waiting for Don to show up in the empty house? She seemed pretty dolled up just be picking up a box...I thought she kind of planned that 'accidental' run-in...

What was Don staring at in the closing shot? Seemed like there was frost on the window pane, and a view of the apt. across the alley, but I didn't see anything significant-symbolic?

What or who do you think Roger was referring to when he said 'This is how it should be done' after Don's 'announcement'. Was he talking about him and Joan?

Is this the first time Don has told anyone he loved them (other than Betts)?

Why is Harry such a horn-dog all of a sudden?

Well that's all. I enjoyed seeing Don happy in this episode and more 'himself'. Yay!

Just wondering....

Throughout almost this entire season, I've been wondering what year will open Season 5. I say this because in S4, we've been on the precipice of so much upheaval in this country, which will really amp up in 1967; trememdous cultural change, and the impact of Viet Nam being in the forefront. I for one, am hoping that they'll skip a year to '67. I cannot wait to re-visit that amazing time in our lives. What do you think?

LITTLE THINGS TO @%$#&* LOVE!!!!!

Season 4, Episode 13, "Tomorrowland."

(In No Particular Order)

1. STRAWBERRY MILKSHAKES!!!!!!1
2. "The Beginnings of Things"
3. Baby Science
4. The Extra Super Wacky Beehive Chapeau on Carolyn Jones.
5. Don Flipping Bobby in the Pool.
6. Joan's SCOWL while pushing the mail cart.
7. Don Exhausted - Falling on the Bed Between Sally and Bobby.
8. Pissed Peggy and Not Shocked At All Joan....Finally Comrades!!!!!
9. The Kitchen Counter Cluttered with "Vintage Crockery"........
10. "THAT'S BULLSHIT"

Too Funny, Regis discusses S4 finale

And Regis is also not getting the engagement :) I figure he is in tune with Draper/Hamm/Draper/Dick Whitman/ Draper and he's just not getting it. Well I feel better now about my lack of understanding.

Roger Sterling's book, "Sterling's Gold"

I have been going to remember the episode which ends with Roger at home with a young woman (not Jane?) who gives him a box full of his new book ("Sterling's Gold"?) and asks him to autograph it (to his wife?), or whether I have imagined it, which would be hard to believe. Maybe I just have some of this confused, but I can't be too far off... I have searched all of the episode recaps and re-watching the DVDs, but I need some help... please...

Question about Ted C's agency and finances

This has been gnawing at me. In the Honda episode we were told that both agencies had roughly the same finances and budget. SCDP didn't take money out of pocket to do a complete work because it was early in the year and that would have prevented them from going after any new accounts (financially speaking)

So how did Ted C's agency manage to take out of pocket, finish a complete work and still manage to survive financially?

Was it explained somehwere or are we to assume something else, something that would explain how they survived and thrived without getting the account?

Season 4 Finale, Change vs Same

Change vs. Same

So this season has turned the midpoint of a decade. Midpoints are always seen as tipping points. Change is about reaching a tipping point, and what follows.

So we have the tipping point of a decade, the end of this season taking place in mid-decade, and we have a metaphoric parallel of a tipping point of Mr. Draper.

Tipping points and change: Don has shown us before his gravity toward the wedding cake motif in his moving toward Faye who is uncoincidentally a Betty visual. However, he is now going against the grain and supplanting that with Megan. That's a marriage of tipping point and change.

Change for Don is also being more responsible with his kids. In earlier episodes this season we saw the pics of his kids on his desk, and they were always visually cut off, (best seen in the episode with Peggy late night in the office) either by other objects or literally the frame of the screen. Now, he's being less Don as we know him, and more Dad.

After his literal bottoming out (the brawl with Duck) he's slowly grown more home-like. That's his thing with attracting to the visual of Faye. But now he's gone the furthest yet by bringing his kids to Cali, and doing so with something new, (a change for him) in Megan who is not of the wedding cake motif.

He kept his promise of his kids meeting Anna, in showing them Anna and Dick's signing the walls (in ink like a contract, if you remember Don's allergy to contracts but he did sign a contract on the wall if you think about it with Anna). That's him introducing them to Anna. He actually kept his word for once, in a sense.

The change in him continues in the restaurant scene with Sally fighting with Bobby. That's very home-like, the kids fighting at the table. The shake spills and what is the result? No fighting but instead it is handled by the soon to be former secretary, playing the role of "mother and a waitress" (if you remember one of the most important lines ever in the series, from the pilot). The waitress cleaning the spill in the restaurant, the mother in charge of the kids. Both metaphors intended.

He changes in growing more toward the home-like side of things. He changes in that his ideal of such is not the same anymore.

But... he also battles the idea of the Same. Here's the other and unfortunately more real side of Don.

He's impulsive. He panics in stress at times. Remember when he wanted to run off with Rachel Menkin when Pete busted him, and she thought he was nuts? What he is doing now with Megan is basically the same thing. He's nuts. He's still the same.

Tipping points married with change are supposed to be about the concept of forward. But what is Don actually doing? Moving backward. Marrying his secretary. Moving back in that he is now on par with Roger. The resemblance is not a coincidence between Jane and Megan in both looks and situation, just like the resemblance between Betty and Faye.

It used to be about the motif of the blondy wedding cake image, but is now about the motif of the brunette secretary you get with and end up marrying because it's change just for the sake of change.

Change doesn't always mean better.

He's regressed thinking he's moving forward, which is always a pitfall in the allure of change. New always feels good, like a drug. But it's not alwas right.

One of the things to take out of this finale? Don is still damaged. He for now has simply traded in his oasis from damage in switching from the bottle to Megan. That's all Megan probably will be, a better looking bottle. A bottle that puts out. A bottle that smiles back. He hasn't really changed.

The episode was titled Tomorrowland. The idea of tomorrow always feels good, but it's ultimately up to you to make it good. You still have the ability to make it bad for your own self as well, however. This is Don.
Don at Anna's, the only thing left is the piano. I thought that was homage to Mountain King and Don's first arrival to Anna's from back at one of the prior best episodes. One of the best edits in the series is Mountain King playing as Don approaches and knocks on her door, Anna opens it, Don, very noir-ish there.
And I thought they last season visually referenced that twice when Don would knock on Suzanne Farrell's place. The way they shot it was so visually structurally similar to his showing up at Anna's, reminding us of the metaphor of escapism regarding both Anna and Suzanne in their own respective ways by shooting his arrival to each girl similar looking.

Another example tonight of the idea of change and arrival is even Ken Cosgrove says, "I'm not like Pete." Ken wouldn't sell out his father in law like Pete. And Ken even mentioned the line about when you hire a client that's when you fire them. Ken changes from Pete.

Betty yelling at Henry, "I'm entitled". Remember back when Megan said, I want to learn, I want to do what Miss Olson does? Big difference in both of Peggy and Megan compared to Betty in that regard of Don.

I didn't really get last episode's Glenn and Sally stuff, but notice here how Glenn knocked on Sally's door asking if she was decent, and remember when he in season 1 he did quite the opposite with Betty in walking in on her?

Here, Betty says, "you don't think I know what you're doing? regarding his alleged friendship with Sally. Is Betty really being insensitive mom, or does Betty know about ill intentioned males now, and see that Glenn is only befriending Sally as a way to get Betty's attention?? It's easy to hate Betty, but really, is she on to something here because through Don, has Betty learned some things? Glenn says something on the way out that lends credence to the latter.

Betty's attention is had at the end conversation in the empty home with Don, through learning he now has another woman. Is Glenn kind of doing the same thing in a way? Remember a few episodes ago at the restaurant, Betty looking over at Don and his date, Betty getting jealous? Is that what the whole Sally/Glenn thing is about, Glenn using a girl for his own personal goal to really actually get attention from Betty? Is that what the, "I know what you're doing" remark is about? On the surface it looks like it's about Sally growing up fast, but, is there a lil more that we need to think about? Is Glenn a little Don in the making, is that the greater point to be had?

In that last dialogue with Don, Betty mentioned change. Stephanie says to Don they both have the rest of their life ahead of them. Change. The combination of "Tomorrowland" and the idea of going West. Change. The 60s thing of moving West to San Fran for change. Don goes West. West, change, metaphors, etc.

There was a lot of layers here. I said before Don put down one bottle just to pick up another in the form of Megan. Isn't that pretty much what Betty did with Henry? Things are not always what they seem, right?

Don speaks in the beginning about moving forward.

But in the end of the episode he only moves back.
The motif of midpoint, tipping points, was addressed yet again with Peggy. Like Don, Peggy has had her own walk along lines; new guard vs old guard. Which is Peggy? The ponytail brat keeps coming around, yet that crowd doesn't appreciate Peggy's work which is SO important to her. But the old guard doesn't do so as much either, until recently. Peggy constantly like a sinking ship lists from port to starboard all this season regarding the new artsy friends on one side and the old guard on the other. Which is she? Since last season Peggy has been searching for her identity.

I thought ponytail brat was there to softly force Peggy to make a decision on which side of the line to fall. Ponytail has done this before.

So you have Peggy, at a midpoint of her decisions in life, just like Don. Ages different but situation the same. Midpoint, both. Tipping point, both. It's a midpoint of the decade, it's the tipping point of the decade. Again, metaphors intended.

And if you notice Ken gave her credit saying Peggy did it regarding landing the acct at the end. Isn't that part of what she wants? Remember her to Don, "you never say thank you." Remember Allison wanting some sort of recognition and Don was all dumb saying whatever, just write something, I'll sign it," (that'll get things thrown at you real fast). But, Ken, old guard, gives that to Peggy. Don sort of does too when they talk.

So I guess Peggy is a typical girl dealing with typical guys, in that she's left to interpretation of their accolades, like Jane Goodall having to interpret another language.

Don is damaged, apparently beyond repair. He is trying to move forward but only really moving back. He is lost. He, after all this, all these different choices of avenues with women, he is still lonely. He put down one bottle to only pick up another bottle in the form of Megan.

Best line of the episode? "You only like the beginnings of things..."

See you next August....

Was the Holiday Veteran's Day?

They say it's been ten weeks since they signed new business. If it was September last episode, then it's probably November this episode. Yet it doesn't seem to be the Thanksgiving Holiday (no hints of anyone like Ken needing to be home with family).

Was it Veteran's Day?

Poor Carla!

That exchange between her and Betty, ouch! She's been with the family since Sally's birth, and this is how you treat her?

I just hope Don is not too woozy with love to write her that reference letter.

Venting

Don, Don, Don. What were you thinking?!? How could you SAY that to Peggy, knowing that she's sensitive about her looks. "If you were only pretty, Peggy, I could love you too? Now go train my fiancé to take your place." I know you were grieving for Anna, and rightly so, but who's lap gave you comfort the last time you saw her/ It wasn't Megan that she gave the nod of approval to. You just ripped my heart out. So now we know, the answer to the question, who is Donald Draper, he's an impulsive, scared, disassociated prickle with the emotional intelligence of a gnat. Will you ever face the fact that mommy is dead? You don't need her anymore. Honest. Recognize that you are in a midlife crisis and marriage isn't the answer. - Sonny and Cher indeed - How can you not know that the only time you are your real self is with Peggy? Are you that comfortable and secure in her presence that you can't see what is staring you in the face? Aarggghhhh! I can't believe how angry i am at a stupid tv character.

Faye, please turn out to be the psycho wench that I know you are, Take revenge on Don and Megan, break them up (sorry kids, Dad can still hire Carla) C'mon Faye, you know you want to. And you are smart enough and connected enough to make it happen in a clever and painful way. Be memorable! Don't be just another one of Don's past flings. He used you and then threw you away without so much as a by your leave. You deserve more, you deserve a sweet revenge. It's understandable, Faye, and it will make you feel so much better. Just do it.

Matt Weiner - I thought we were supposed to be confounded? The only thing that confounds me is that an 11 and 14 year old are once again the only adults on the show. - what's wrong with this picture?

Sally, Glenn - Sorry that you have to be the adults in a powerful, confusing and every changing world. You are leagues beyond most of the other characters in maturity and selflessness. Extra kudos to Glenn for never hurting Sally with the truth about her mom and for standing your ground this time with Betty and asking her the hard questions.

Megan, talk about a player! You knew exactly what you wanted from Don, a way to break into tv (as you've stated multiple times) and you went out and got it. I can't hate that, you planned your work and worked your plan perfectly, but I do hate it. You're just another Jane. You make me wonder if Roger and Don are two sides of the same coin.

Carla - "sigh" I know, that you know, that this day was coming sooner or later. You were right to allow Sally the comfort of her only friend. You are the very best thing that ever happened to the Draper kids and i love you for it. I was happy that you stopped Betty in her tracks, I just wish you could have really laid into her and ripped open all her sordid little secrets. But you outflanked her with Henry - Brava. I hope you consider doing the same with Dr. Edna. And i know it's highly unlikely, but I hope you find a way back into the story.

Harry - a casting couch, really? You now give me the willies. Your downward spiral has been the only one without any hope of redemption.

Betty, you lost some of my sympathy when you decided to move just to hurt Sally, you lost all of it when you fired and then refused to give Carla a recommendation. Refused to give the woman who raised your children for 11 years no recommendation? Grow up! You petty, vindictive little twitch.You've got no one now. i hope Henry's "Betty no one is ever on your side" rings in your ears for all eternity. Every person in your life has been telling you that you need professional help, for God's sake, Betty, do it already.

Henry, I knew Betty would drive you to drink, but I give you credit for lasting this long. You now have my sympathy.

Pete - The weasel returns. You even seemed all pointy and angular, like Riff Raff from the Rocky Horror Picture Show tonight. Ken outclasses you without ever having to try. Don bails you out and you still can't be a human.. Your ridiculous hatred of all things Ken radiated off of you like a steaming dog-pile. It lessens you, and there's not much there to begin with. Stop your sniveling and realize that if Ken wasn't there, you would have lost the agency by now. You're letting your pride effect your pocket, snap out of it.

Roger - "sigh" poor Roger, you are just getting back to your old self, ignorant of the fact that Joan is a walking emotional time bomb ready to blow in a vicinity near you. You did good with Don's announcement, very classy. It would have been easy to ruin the moment and steal Don's joy, but you didn't, you were gracious. Welcome back.

Ken - Darling, you truly are a good man. Way to stick to your guns. That 30% of the business just grew greater because of your hard work and dedication. You have always worked well with Peggy and credit her work instincts and ethics. If they don't make you partner, I bet you would have your pick of agencies to work for. And if not, you will always have your loving family and their support,

Peggy - so sorry that you had to take that junk from Don after working through yet another holiday weekend while he's no where to be found. Sorry that Don is so blind to your kindred spirit and so ignorant of your true worth. You did really good on all accounts. Calling out Joan on her BS was just the icing on the cake. The worm has turned, thanks to you. If Don goes through with his intention of you training his little wifey - walk. You are better than that.

Lane - Thanks for keeping your smile and for advocating for Joan. Sure she could use the money, but the title has elevated her status and finally given her the recognition she deserves. Nothing seems to phase you and that is a much needed influence in the agency. i hope you get more storyline next season.

Joan - Good for you! You got a promotion - the money will come, and you are going to need it, very few people think that hubby is going to make it back home. You're taking a big chance, and you know it. You are showing the guts that I have long admired and you've tempered it with gritty determination and resignation. Let them bring it on, Joan, you will handle whatever comes your way.And I am glad to see that you finally let Peggy in a little. The two of you can be a great help to each other. Sure her Pollyanna persona drives you to drink, but she's steadfast with moves of her own and the two of you can help each other up the ladder and have a few laughs while doing it.

Marrying Megan--Marrying "Anna"?

Anyone else get the feeling that Don saw a lot of Anna in Megan and that sealed the deal? He did activities with her what he wanted to do with Anna in California with the kids, just as they'd planned. And Megan said pretty much the same thing Anna did--that she "knew" him and loved him, etc. Very Anna-like. And he said he felt like himself with her, as he did with Anna, as he often does in California.

He obviously feels like he "knows" her, to the point where he can skip over all that dating stuff and go right into marriage. And likely he does "know her" if she's enough like Anna. But it was a bit...disturbing to watch. Not to mention ironic.

Don says it all at the meeting with the American Cancer folk. That youth has nostalgia (Don's usually theme there!), and that even as youth looks forward to tomorrow, it's also looking back. And here Don is, looking forward to marrying Mega and having a whole new future with her, yet she's eerily reminiscent of Anna. Is she a way of having Anna back in his life? As well, of course, as a way of recapturing his own youth (Megan's twenty-five).

If he goes for her because she's Anna-like, then his "tomorrowland" is actually a way of trying to go back in time. A way for him as "Don" to marry "Anna" as the real Don Draper did (and with the same ring!), but as Dick never got to do (yet Anna give him that ring as if to say that they were married, in their own way).

Did anyone else see similarities?

Who is Don Draper? Sorry Dr. Miller, he's NOT Dick Whitman.

Who is Don Draper?

Matt Weiner promised an answer and we got one. Don Draper is NOT Dick Whitman.

Don Draper is a successful advertising executive, a good father, and a man who wants to be "in love." He is a romantic, an optimist and someone who wants to believe there is order, meaning and purpose in the universe. He is Dr. Jekyl.

Dick Whitman is lazy, bitter, cynical and a drifter. He is repelled by commitment to anything. He believes there is no such thing as love. He believes the world is random and he can never be sold. He is Mr. Hyde.

I, like a lot of us on this forum represented by Dr. Faye Miller have long thought that Don Draper must die for Dick Whitman to live. But the truth it turns out is more complex. No, "Dick" did not "grow" by giving up Don as Faye wanted and becoming "like other people."

No, Don triumphed, as he did in season 2 over Dick. As he almost did after the last ep of Season 1, but missed the chance, just barely to catch up with Betty for thanksgiving.

I despaired Mad Addicts about his unwillingness to "grow." But now it's clear. Don Draper is Don Draper AND Dick Whitman. He is what he aspires to be and what he fears he is.

And that is what most of us are if we were to really look deep enough.

After a certain age, that is what life is. Out struggle between these two poles in ourselves. Is Don frustrating? Just like life...

Don Fell In Love, Get Over IT!!!!

Am I the only one that believes that Don really did fall in love with Meagan? I kept saying that Dr. Faye was boring and didn't make him laugh. Meagan is refreshing to Don, great with his kids, and I really admire how she is so open about her personal insecurities like her teeth. She's very mature for her age yet retains a youthful enthusiasm that lifts Don's spirit. She's good for him. There are people that fall in love in a few days, marry and live in married bliss for a lifetime. I can see how this would happen to a person as reclusive as Don. He's truly experiencing genuine love for the first time and he's looking at all the signs that brought them together and taking the chance on it. Dr. Faye was just too boring, too clinical, all business. My grandmother once told me that a man will marry the woman that brings out the kid in him. That's what Meagan did for Don.

Favorite Moments from Season 4

Lots of heated discussions going on in the main thread. Brian wants to know - what were your favorite moments from Season 4? Most of mine were from "The Suitcase."

Matt Weiner is spying on us! I LOVED THE FINALE

All of the talk on this board about Megans teeth and Joan's baby bump. Coincidence? I think not!! I loved the finale. I knew there was something brewing with Megan but damn , Don wasted no time. But now what. Don is not a one woman man and I almost felt a little chemistry with Betty. I can't wait til next season!!! P.S. Megan I love your teeth too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially when they are speaking French!

baby,, the rain must fall.....

Baby, the wind must blow....
Where ever my heart leads me...
That's where I must go.

A song from 1965's BABY THE RAIN MUST FALL movie starring Steve MCQueen and Lee Remick.
Well, my maddict friends it is here. The end of another fantastic season. It is starting to rain in Northern CA and I find it fitting since I'm on the verge of a Sally temper tantrum!! I realize it is just a show, that I actually have a life. However....I am going to be in a funk for a few days and I know it. How is everyone doing??

TOO MUCH SEX AND DRINKING

I like Mad Men and I've seen most episodes...for the future, I worked in the 60's and I don't remember all that DRINKING going on in any office I ever worked in...no wonder their accounts drop them! :) They drink their way throught the entire day - which I think is totally mis-representive of that time in place. Also, next season, can't Don Draper learn to keep his pants zipped...he has SEX with every woman he meets - and it is disgusting...I do like to see the dress, the settings...I think the men are a little "fresher" than they really were...there are always going to be those who are...but not to that degree...yes, the chauvanistic remarks were made at times. but, next year, concentrate on accounts and less drinking and sex...can't you get a more exciting storyline than that?

Season 3 was amazing!

Wow...just finished season 3 last night, watching the DVD I rented and it was fabulous! I want to start season 4 right away, but I can't. My cable only has the last 3 episodes "on demand" and I don't when the Season 4 DVD will come out. Does anyone know the release date? I should have taped each episode of season 4, but it's too late for that. :(

Mad Men Finale Viewing Party in San Francisco!

It's a MAD MAD MAD MEN HALLOWEEN

Come on by...Sunday, October 17th from 7-11p

We'll have the MAD MEN Finale being telecast and the martinis flowing. BYOMG - bring your own martini glass!

Sara from Glama-Rama will be on hand to be coerced (tipped) into performing Up-dos.

You can also place your last minute wig order to be filled before Halloween is upon us.

@ Retro Fit
910 Valencia Street
San Francisco, CA

What were your wrong predictions?

I was reading people's predictions for the finale in the main thread and trying to figure out what my own are.

I'm mostly drawing blanks and thinking "I have no idea". I have learned that whatever MW and his team come up with, it will meet two criteria:

It will be awesome (sorry racy)
It will not be what I predicted.

I'm wondering, when you look back, what were your wrong predictions? (or even your right ones)

Here's mine: The last time I was positive that I had guessed what would happen it was regarding Joan and Greg.

I was SOOOOOOOOOO sure. The fact that not one person on the forum had even touched on it only made me that much more sure that I was right that I was the only one (other than MW) who had figured it out.

Everyone on the forum was discussing whether Joan was going to go through with the marriage or get smart and dump the loser.

My prediction (to myself cause I wasn't posting at that point) was that the big slap in the face plot twist would be that HE dumped HER because he couldn't handle the fact that she had too much sexual history.

It would be a profound statement about, in that era:

Just how desperate a woman in her thirties was to get married (especially to a doctor)

and

How big a "strike against her" sexual experience was when a man was considering a woman's suitability as a wife.

It seemed that that would illustrate the point so clearly - that these values would cause an exquisite creature like Joan to be rejected by a loser like Greg.

I was so SURE!
I was so WRONG!

So... what were yours?

TOMORROW! - MAD MEN SEASON FINALE PARTY!!!

The time has come for your favorite Ad Agency to close for the season. Don is finally getting his life together, Joan struggles with freelance illustrators and Cole's is throwing the best damn season finale party in the world. Maybe not in the world but in LA anyway. Join us for some Makers Mark cocktail specials, Mad Men style. First Mad Men cocktail is free for anyone in their 1960's attire. Not the hippy 60's attire but the suits and business appropriate dresses. Mad Men talk forum moderator Nora Paradiso will be reporting live from Cole's. Come watch the season finale and sip on some Maker's Mark, Don would want you to.

Will Don put Midge through rehab?

It was so sad to see Midge in such bad shape. I didn't think Don would do anything more than give her some money. He really didn't "owe" her anything and hadn't seen her for years. So the idea of Don paying for her rehab seemed remote. But the more I thought about it, Don putting Midge through rehab would be a giant step for him.

One thing I like about S1 is that it shows Don in situations which we assume are normal, but turn out to be rare as the series progresses. Like when Don sees his army buddy on the train and the guy is jovial and very warm with Don. And we never see a man interact with Don in that way (except Adam) for the rest of the series. With Midge, Don is open, shares his insecurities, laughs, and is at ease. And we never see Don quite like that again with a romantic interest.

Midge also seems to be someone who introduced Don to art (she was an artist) and music (playing Miles Davis at her place and taking him to a music club). I wonder if boho Midge was someone who helped transform yokel Dick into a more cultured person. Which brings up how long they were together. In S1E1, Midge remembers a tobacco scare Don had 5 years previous. So they'd known each other for five years and may have been an item for that long. And when Don suggests they get married and Midge jokes it off, Don replies that he's serious. So Midge and Don had a strong bond over many years.

Since the end of S1 I've seen Don and Midge as good friends who fooled around. Don cared enough for Midge that when he realized there was something between her and Roy, he didn't get jealous or angry but actually told her. And when she turned him down for Paris, he didn't get upset and instead gave her his 5K bonus check.

If Don comes to Midge's aid, it would be a huge step in how he sees women. Don usually sees women as platonic (Anna, Peggy) or as sexual (Betty and his other women). And once the sexual relationship ends, the person basically disappears (Suzanne, Alison, etc). Don has an emphasis on the sexual and if he can move beyond that, see Midge as a friend in need, and truly helps her it would be real growth.

Also, Midge's situation eerily reminded me of Adam. Don left Adam in ok shape at the train station, didn't see him for 10 years, Adam reappeared at his office in bad shape, Don gave him 5K, assumed Adam would be fine, and then Adam died. With Midge, Don gave her 5K, left her in ok shape, didn't see her for 5 years, she reappeared in his building, she was in bad shape, Don gave her some cash. And if Midge keeps up her drug use up, she'll end up dead. Adam was desperate and Don didn't do what was necessary (have a relationship with him). Perhaps by helping Midge with her drug habit Don can vicariously make amends for what he did with Adam.

I also wonder is there is a Don/Midge and Roger/Joan parallel. Roger and Joan started their relationship in '52. And by '60 Joan had dated Paul and was back with Roger. By S3 they were basically friends. Roger didn't stand by Joan in her hour of need in "Hands and Knees." If Don stands by Midge in her hour of need it would be a good contrast to Roger and Don would have progressed beyond his former role model.

And helping Midge could change how Don sees money. Betty said that Don didn't understand money. Don uses it to buy things, houses, cars, suits, even Betty to some extent. He uses it to buy off Adam, Allison, Peggy (That's what the money's for!), and Sally (Beatles tickets). But if Don uses it to transform someone's life (paying for rehab) he would have changed. Don may have gained a new perspective on money by paying Pete's share. Don didn't buy anything physical with the 50K, he bought Pete's dignity and independence for him.

Helping Midge could also honor Anna. Anna helped Dick when he was desperate and alone (didn't give away his identity, provided him with maternal friendship) and Anna didn't even know him. Don could do something similar for Midge. I've posted a lot about Don reevaluating his relationship with Abigail (that's why the episode where he hears of his surrogate mother Anna's impending death is called "Good News," because Don said "good" when he heard the "news" of Abigail's death). Helping Midge would be a way of honoring Abigail since she took Dick in when he had no one

Private Spaces, Hiding Spaces, Closed Spaces (L.A. Times Article)

Great article in today's L.A. TImes about the theme of open/closed spaces in Mad Men--back to the theme of exposure there, but it's interesting to connect it all to that little boy trapped under the table.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-1016-mad-men-20101016,0,648313.story

So what do you think? On the one hand, the loss of private space is interfering with everyone, with Bert who no longer has an office, with Joan who has people passing through her office, and certainly with Don who thrives on private spaces. His apartment, dark as a "cave," is where he is still trying to keep his sex life (and himself) most private--and that need for a hiding place spotlights the shaking hand trying to get the key in the door when he thinks the FBI is coming down the hall. He has to hide!

On the other hand, given last episode, there is the feeling that Don's inner cowboy (and little boy, and true self) wants to be let out. To show who and what he is to the world in a public letter. To live out in the open as "Dick" does in California.

How have spaces been defining and re-defining people this season as compared to past seasons?

Draper's Stereo

In the early/mid 1960's this was Hugh Hefner's and Frank Sinatra's cool mad ave stereo - should it be Don Draper's as well? Check them out:

http://www.clairtone.ca/projectg/

Agree or Disagree?

What do think about the assessment of the characters in Season 4 in this piece?

http://flavorwire.com/124653/mad-men-characters-in-season-4-upgrade-or-downgrade

What in your opinion, is THE BEST episode of Mad Men, so far?

I thought it was "The Wheel", season 1....now I'm leaning towards "The Suitcase" season 4....then again....."Red in the Face", or.......

Matthew Weiner 'UpClose' interview with Elvis Mitchell

Fascinating conversation with Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner! Check it out on the KCRW website:
http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt101014upclose_matthew_wein

Jon Hamm on 30 Rock

Did anyone see Jon Hamm on 30 Rock last night.
It was brief, but funny.

The American Comeback or the Art of the Professional Reinvention

Now that Lucky Strike is out I don't see this season is about the proverbial question - "Who is Don Draper?" or who is so and so?. I think that there is a bigger theme at hand and one that is (not to sound too patriotic) an American one - the Art of reinvention or the Comeback. In the Old World one is stuck in their station (I mean apart from the Beatles ) if Mad Men took place in England, how could a fellow named Dick Whitman evolve into Don Draper? could it be possible in England (not likely) but in America? yes. The ad from NY times announcing the agency will no longer represent tobacco companies, well this was a dramatic gesture from someone who did not want to go down without a fight (perhaps it was the depression era kid in Don that made him do it). Now this brings up another question, what happens to the older established characters of Mad Men?. Without Lucky Strike - Roger is a shell (shiny but empty and hollow). Does his connections with the rich and powerful matter in this New World? this Tomorrowland? (where a secretary can rise the ranks and become a copywriter?). Probably not , Pete has perhaps perfected the art of business and social connections in ways that Roger could never do. Roger is more likely "to party" with the clients, Pete will be sociable but will get the work done. What about Bert Cooper? he is still respected and seen as the elder statesman of the Agency but he is not part of the day to day operations (if he leaves he will be sorely missed). Which brings us to another bigger issue of the show. Where is my place in the world?. This is perhaps a question that can be asked by any of the characters, but probably more so by a Peggy (and perhaps Joan). Peggy has grown as an individual and her transformation from secretary to self assured copy writer is perhaps the greatest transformation of them all. Peggy still has some growing to do, she is still trying to negotiate her self image and what it means to be a woman in the work place. Too bad Dr. Faye did not stick around and be a mentor for Peggy. i think it works out for the best given that she already has a mentor (Don). I think its perhaps better for her to figure things out for herself. Thoughts from other viewers?. I still think that NY Times ad although it was seen as professional suicide was a bold move.

Is Mad Men worth it?

I never watched Mad Men on TV -- I picked up the first season DVD and have watched 4 episodes so far. I'm trying to decide whether to invest more time in it. The acting and writing are great in many ways. But it focuses so much on a vision of the 1960-ish era which contains such a tremendous degree of repression and back-stabbing that it's kind of depressing.

Some characters are "liberated" internally, at least to a substantial degree, but living in world that could only be described as a kind of hell. (Sartre: "Hell is other people.") Other characters seem to deeply embody the repression.

What I'm wondering is this: Does the show ever amount to anything more than smugly and cleverly depicting that miserable world? Or do characters actually grow and develop and become more full human beings, and experience some joy? Or, coming at the same question from a different angle: does this show ever get any heart?

George Lois and Mad Men

I just wrote a piece about Mad Men, partially in response to George Lois's wrongheaded criticism of the show. I'd love to hear your thoughts, either here or on the page's "comments" section.

Here's the link:

http://imprint.printmag.com/design-thinking/why-george-lois-is-wrong-about-mad-men-a-conversation-with-mel-abert/

Thank you!

~ m

MAD MEN SEASON FINALE PARTY

The time has come for your favorite Ad Agency to close for the season. Don is finally getting his life together, Joan struggles with freelance illustrators and Cole's is throwing the best damn season finale party in the world. Maybe not in the world but in LA anyway. Join us for some Makers Mark cocktail specials, Mad Men style. First Mad Men cocktail is free for anyone in their 1960's attire. Not the hippy 60's attire but the suits and business appropriate dresses. Mad Men talk forum moderator Nora Paradiso will be reporting live from Cole's. Come watch the season finale and sip on some Maker's Mark, Don would want you to.

Midge

On last episode Midge appeared. What is she in Don's past and who is the actress?

What to look forward to after, "Tomorroland"...

What are some of the things you can look forward to after this Sunday's finale?
As for me, I can wash the dishes, the clothes, pay bills...You see all this was put on hold during the season! Also, don't forget the History section and scrapbook section and games and interviews and movies of MM stars and last but not least, RERUNS!
I have a longer list, but what are yours?

It's not over until.......

Here's to an Operatic Finish! What a Season Matt Weiner Cast and Crew!
Here's to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbN0g8-zbdY

Sealed With a Kiss to Mad Men...

Oh, heck I'm crying too!
Here's the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TINbm_I90k8

NORA PARADISO WINS "DESTRY" BADGE for Mad Men Season 4 Finale!

With honor, I, along with 2 other moderators (I will let them do their own intros as they see fit), will be moderating this very auspicious Season 4 Finale!!
Now, let's not be sad about this!!! LET'S BE THRILLED that this upcoming episode rightly titled, "Tomorrowland", will mark the end of an extremely successful season, one of the best so far! So, as WE all look forward to this Sunday's viewing, we can close this last page of the fourth book with grace and reflection to "Tomorrowland"!! LE'TS GET THE PARTY STARTED!

New Feature on Mad Men Talk Forum

As of this afternoon, the Mad Men Talk forum features a new "Flag" button allowing users to identify comments they find to be in violation of the AMC Terms of Usage Agreement which asks users to be polite and respectful. In addition, users may use the Flags to identify content that is off-topic. Comments that receive multiple Flags will be removed from the Talk forum. Please note: Abuse of the Flag feature may result in a user's exclusion from the Talk forum.

Season 4 Episode 12 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 12, "Blowing Smoke."

Season 4 Episode 12 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 12, "Blowing Smoke"? Post the exact quote below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

If YOU were writing the final season, what should happen?

Your Post

If you care about Glenn...:)

We had an "If you love Sally" thread awhile back; time for Glenn to get some equal time.

The kid never had 2 essentials that he needed: guidance at home and a solid father figure that he could look up to.

He also has no wise and loving mother, either.

Mr. Bishop was likely henpecked or passive or just played no strong role at all for his son. He was desperate when he was trying to get in to see the kids that day (remember he asked Betty if he could use her phone; Mr. Bishop was pounding at the door and he couldn't get in to see them. Betty refused to let him use phone)

Maybe she very conveniently kept him away from Glenn and his sister and that's the way she rolled. Could be that was a game she continually played when it was time for him to see the kids.

Sports may very well be his godsend. Kids need something constructive to keep them busy after school; they also need discipline, to learn to work as a team and to make a few good friends in the bargain.

His coach may also be the strong male figure he needs to look up to. Coaches usually are good for that.

He's been sent to a therapist; I don't know if that was before or after the break-in incident; who knows if it helped him or if the therapist was a good one?

And now his mother has remarried. Doesn't appear that that's a good fit for Glen;most likely his mother's busy with her new plaything and Glen's sinking even deeper than he was when no 24/7 male figure at all was on premise.

He's got nowhere to go. Except perhaps down.

He's clearly terrified of Betty -- he ran off when Betty burst onto the scene and demanded that Sally get away from him. (again, with no reason to Sally exactly why she should stay away from Glenn)

Who knows what will happen to him now?

There are no "cool" parents in the area; every neighborhood usually had a cool mother and/or a cool father -- the kind kids usually flocked to see; it was sort of a "safe house" atmosphere where everybody was welcome to go. That would have been another godsend for Glenn.

As a pp pointed out, Betty should have put Glenn and Sally in the car, taken them back to the Francis house and entertained them -- give them something to eat and put the radio out on the patio.

Afterimages (Midge's Paintings)

Midge's husband says that Midge paintings are "afterimages." Not what she sees with eyes open, but what she sees after closing her eyes.

By the way, afterimages are also called "ghost images" and referred to as optical illusions.

Why after images? And what does Don see in "Number 4"? Is Don's ad an "afterimage"?

Sally Draper...

What was that item or thing Sally had when she ran to her bed after hearing that the family might be moving?

No Make-Up!

Okay, I feel like I've been a little slow on the uptake on this one....this whole season has been about who people really are, exposing one's true self, no longer hiding or pretending, etc.

Have you noticed that we've been seeing a lot of the women without make-up? Someone mentioned Betty not looking good in a recent episode--from the FBI episode on she's not been wearing make-up.

Joan has been shown twice in her pj's, wearing glasses, no make-up. Roger even remarks on this very "honest" Joan as compared, I'm sure, to the one he always saw in sexy negligees when they met up in hotel rooms.

Peggy was without make-up when she was coming home from the beach (of course), and this episode, Trudy was without make-up when she demanded that Pete not give any more money to the SCDP.

Have I missed anyone? That these women were not wearing make-up was actually very noticeable to me, by the way. They looked much more vulnerable.

Donald F. Draper as Robert E. Lee

I make the comparison due to a quotation attributed to Lee after the Battle of Chancellorsville:

"I was too weak to defend, so I attacked."

At Chancellorsville, Lee's Army of Northern Virginia soundly defeated Hooker's Army of the Potomac, even though the Union forces outnumbered the Confederates by a ratio of about 5:2.

SCDP is almost certainly too weak to survive for the six months that Heinz and other accounts want to wait before trying them. so Don's NYT "attack" ad seems to be the only strategy that might lead to the firm's survival.

It seems that Bert is most upset by the realization that SCDP, successor the the firm he co-founded, has evolved into D+s+c+P (plus the kids, PC, KC, HC, and PO). Perhaps Bert will have a conversation with Ayn Rand (and maybe even one with a picture of "Astronaut" Ida Blankenship?) and roll back in to the office before the end of Episode 13.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"

Cooper having no Balls-labels the new generation?

Lets look at the 1960's ........creativity has passed on to lesser minds...those of the houswife-real estate agent and Phil Donohue.

Matt Weiner Live! Tonight

http://www.kcrw.com/events/up-close

Is Anyone Else Having Trouble Accessing the Threads?

When I pull up a Thread to read the comments, all I see is that blankety-blank boxed ad .....there is one in the comments section of each Thread, and no matter how many times I try, I cannot get to the comments. Dare I say, though it is for a TV show that is all about advertising, this Forum has too much advertising? The ads are becoming more annoying than our resident slimy toad.

While I have the floor, I may as well ask the question I wanted to ask Ashley but but was unable to in the comments section of her Thread on the new "flag" feature. Is there some way to "flag" an objectionable Talk topic? I know there is the "Recommend", but how about putting up a "Please Remove" feature, also. The aforementioned slimy toad frequently posts his most unsavory remarks in new Talk topics.....where, strangely enough, they always seem to remain without any objection from AMC.

Final question, why is there no way to delete a Talk topic if the author so chooses? I will post this particular one, but I am sure I will begin feeling writer's remorse as soon an my snit fit fades, but there will be no way to delete the evidence of my bad temper.

What Was That "Slop" Betty served for dinner?

Betty does not seem like a good cook. That food she put on the plate for the kids and Henry, looked disgusting.

Playtex

What a difference a few years make, or two seasons.

Peggy doesn't need a new woman's cigarette account to show us that she's come along way, baby.

The last time we saw a Playtex presentation was Paul Kinsey's 'Jackie/Marilyn' campaign in season 2, for the 'Maidenform' episode. Peggy was left out of the creative process, frustrated in her efforts to be involved in it, and was told by Joan (who Peggy asked for help) to 'stop dressing like a little girl' if she wanted to live in 'their' world. Taking this advice, Peggy shows up inadvisably for celebratory drinks with the boys at a strip club, and is given a disapproving look by Pete, to boot.

In 'Blowing Smoke' we see Peggy in charge of the campaign for Playtex gloves, and the presentation. Don's counting on her. The boys, Stan and Danny are looking to Peggy for creative leadership, while continuing to view her as a woman, 'giving off'. Stan tries to take advantage of Peggy's anxiety about the presentation and makes a move, kissing Peggy, but she resists, and demurs from any further assistance from Stan, although her anxiety is gone. Peggy makes the presentation successfully, with lipstick on her teeth, proving that the message, and not the medium, are more important.

Everyone has secrets

I had an interesting conversation with my mother the other day. We were talking about MM. She doesn't watch, but has friends who do. She was telling me how they think the show is realistic because back then everyone had secrets. Everyone was pretending to come from the perfect family, have a great marriage, kids that were angels. Meanwhile, there was all kinds of mayhem going on behind the scenes. Which is why all the drinking and smoking.
Based on my interactions with my maternal grandmother, I'm guessing my mother was in there lying with the best of them.
PS
I changed my profile picture, to my 50's costume I wore recently.

Bert Cooper aka Dr. Frankenstein?

'We've created a monster!' Bert Cooper

Who gets credit for Don the monster?

1. Roger, who isn't even sure that he hired Don, but showed Don how-to-be a glib ad man?

2.Bert, who fed Don's outsider persona the ideals of Ayn Rand (assuming he read the books Bert gave him), making non-conformity, self-interest and lack of regard for the consequences for others a credit not a failing?

3. Abigail, who raised Dick the 'whore-child' out of Christian kindness, but let him forget it?

4. Betty, who rejected Dick the 'whore-child', after living off of and with Don Draper for years?

5. Midge, who fed (and bed) Dick, like a 'drug', her vision of a Bohemian lifestyle, gave him his first hit of pot, and continues to be a muse for Don after several years, most recently 'Draper, Draper and Draper', and #4?

6. Rachel Mencken, who called Don, the 'whore-child' out as a coward?

7. Archibald, who died in Dick's arms, after getting kicked in the head, while 'conforming' to what was expected of him?

8. Grandpa Gene, who never let Don forget that 'you have no people'?

Elizabeth Moss and Jon Hamm

I fund these nice pics of them at and industry event because of my devotion to the show (well, mostly insomnia actually.)

Jackie O. or Marilyn Monroe?

Marilyn Monroe!
Of these three photos, which would you choose to do a Marilyn movie?

My Janie Bryant Story by Nora Paradiso

I was minding my own business on the Talk Forum, and long and behold, I get a call from a professor of Janie Bryant's College. Nora, he said, would you find us a place to hold Janie's Birthday Party. She's very shy about her award she just won and would like to combine the two. There will be 100 alumni attending. I dropped everything and arranged all at The Beverly Hills Hotel since I know some people there. Then, they called and said that for political reasons the college was obliged to hold it elsewhere. They apologized profusely and invited me to the very limited seating birthday party. I was thrilled but felt shy to attend since I only did what any good Maddict would have done under the circumstances.
NOW, I WISH I HAD ATTENDED!!! I love her. What a designer!
It turns out that her alma matter is a college not far from my house in Atlanta, GA and the professors and alumni invited me there, but I was already back in LA.
They sent me pictures of the event. Just a little story I won't forget!

Oh yes, some of you asked for short clip of "All My Love Marillyn" show and here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLLywkEmntY

Homage to Emerson Foote

Emerson Foote was the man back in the late 1940's who refused to work with Lucky Strike citing health issues for the public. He was way ahead of his time and went on to be the #1 man at McCann Erickson. I think it was really wonderful to put into the script that "Emerson Foote" called after Don's New York Times ad. I think this was a bold,inventive,audacious move on Don's part. Anyone agree? Disagree?

'Mad Men': TV's 'most feminist show'?

http://theweek.com/article/index/208047/mad-men-tvs-most-feminist-show

My sons are enabling my "Maddiction"

Saturday we were making up versions of "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie" about each other. We had "If You Give a Carter a Coke" and "If You Give a Brady at Bagel." When it was time to do mine, my 11-year-old said, "If You Give a Mom a Mad Man..."

Last night I said there were only 2 episodes left and my 12-year-old said, "Oh, Mom, I'm so sorry."

I've brought them up right!!!!

Is it all a Game of "Go Fish"?

Putting the right bait on the hook? Guessing what the other person has while holding onto what you've got?

Don Is Brilliant

Don's letter to the NY Times was very bold and risky. The best defense is a good offense. Don made the right move. The company is sinking fast and they didn't have time to bring in new accounts to make up for the loss. Cooper didn't like Don's move because he represents a former time when there were stricter ethics that many businesses adhered to. But, SCDP is in a new cynical, greedy, ruthless age of business. Therefore, SCDP needs a cunning person like Don to lead it through this time. I'm glad Cooper left because his outdated views are holding the company back. The new SCDP should stand for Sterling Campbell Draper Pryce. And they won't even have to change the logo.

On a final note, I was on Team Faye, however, watching Don and Meagan walk down the corridor made them a very striking couple. Faye is boring with all of her dinner invitations. Don will bore of her because she lacks fun, she seem s too uptight, too reasonable. One thing most of his mistress had in common were they were thrill seekers, adventurous, free spirits. Don admires this because he's the complete opposite. With Faye, there is no balance. Only seriousness, no fun. I think Meagan has a lot of depth to her. She's an artist, she enjoys reading literature, she's ambitious, she's observant, she enjoys children. Don needs someone who can make him laugh. JMHO.

"Number Four"

Is it a coincidence that Midge's painting was called "Number Four", and, that this is Season Four? You be the judge!!!

Haunted by Glen/Don

Is Glen "haunting" Betty in more ways than just what happened between them a few years ago? Like a poltergeist he trashed the house, and he has her daughter possessed, if you like.

One review of this episode mentioned that Glen seems to have a lot in common with Don. He advises Sally to "kiss ass" teaching her how to sell herself as it were to her mother. And we see him wearing a football uniform (Betty mentions that Don said he was a football star).

While with the child psychologist, we hear Betty mentioning that Henry did something that reminded her of Don. Clearly, she is still haunted by Don, living in Don's "haunted" house. When she sees Sally and Glen, does she see a repeat of her romance and marriage to Don? Is she trying to stop her past self as much as Sally from doing this? Is Betty calling Glen "lower class" an echo of her thoughts about Don being lower class?

Sally asserts that Betty doesn't even know Glen, and likely Sally is right. Betty doesn't really know Glen, just as she likely never really knew Don. Betty doesn't know Sally either, come to that. But Betty might well know herself in that moment at the dinner table. And know why she fell for Don who was no good for her. She certainly feels that she will get over him.

What similarities are there between Glen and Don? And has Glen's haunting of Betty's home and daughter been like her being haunted by Don?

Midge and Big Tobacco.

My favorite parallel for this weeks episode. Is that of Midge - the Heroine addict and SCDP the Tobacco addict both chasing down a fix. Midge's painting inspired Don to do something bold and progressive. He rips out his old journal entrys as they are the past and looks to the future. His bold maneuver has unsettled his partners who can't understand his vision but in the this will save the day. In one stroke Don has inexpensively raised his firm into a new realm where there is no competition, no squabbles over confidence and no pandering. Like innovative thinker no one including the competition realizes the impact of this move except perhaps Peggy and Megan ( who is always framed in the background with nearly every shot containing Don and Faye). I can't believe the season finale is next week.!!!!

Draper to Los Angeles for draft picks and cash

I'll apologize in advance if this has already been brought up but in watching last night's episode and trying to figure out where Matt Weiner is taking us, I've come to the following conclusion.... Don is heading to Los Angeles.

I'm not breaking any new ground when I say that the title of the finale, "Tomorrowland" is likely a reference to the attraction of the same name at Disneyland and was also featured in Disney's area at the 1964-65 World's Fair in New York. Could it be that Don and/or SCDP gets an offer to work for Disney? If we look back for any foreshadowing, there is definitely some to be found. Remember Lane with a stuffed Mickey in his arms when he walked into the reception area expecting to see his son, only to find his father, alone, and then Mickey getting abandoned on the credenza? Also, in The Suitcase, when Peggy screams after seeing a mouse in Don's office, Don refers to the mouse as "Mickey" and then when the mouse disappears he comments that "there must be another way out of this office". Is Mickey/Disney the way out for SCDP? Another hint but admittedly more of a stretch is the last name of Bethany. Weiner could've picked any last name in the world but he chose Van Nuys (as in Van Nuys, CA) for her. Van Nuys, CA by the way, is home to Busch Gardens amusement park which opened coincindentally enough in 1965.

And how about all the inner strife this would cause amongst the characters?! This show is and always has been about the inner struggles of Don, Peggy, Pete, Roger, Betty, Lane, etal. A chance to not only save the agency but for the equivalent of an advertising gold mine tempered by a necessary move to LA (assuming that Disney would require such a thing for at least some of the members) would provide the impetus for a LOT of sould searching. For example, would Pete move given that Trudy just gave birth and has her heart set on a house with a yard in NYC? Would Peggy move now that she finally found a guy she really likes, a guy who is from Brooklyn and thrives off of the energy of the Village? Would Lane have the stones to ask his wife to move to LA after he just went through heck (and a cane to the head) in getting her to come back to New York? What about Kenny? He's planning a NY wedding. Would Joan move across country while her husband is away in Vietnam? Would Roger leave his family estate (and Joan)? Would Faye leave her job with Atherton to be with Don. And would Don leave knowing that he's leaving his three children behind? (If he does, he has a house to move into- remember, Anna's house is still owned by Don and has Anna's niece living in it.)

I'm interested in hearing what all you other fanatics think about this. Do you think I'm onto something? If so, would you like it if it were to play out this way?

Mad Men and Breaking Bad

BB is in "remission" and will be for a long, long time. And, it appears MM is nearing this season's end. I don't know about its future orbit. Anyway, it seems a good time for those of us who follow both to make some comparisons between these two AMC flagship series.

Many differences, but I think the biggest can be found in that BB appears to have a pretty definite "trajectory" to the story line, while MM is somewhat like a chess game that has an almost infinite number of possible moves from one show to the next and is virtually impossible to predict.

What say you?

Who is Don Draper? A One Page Ad!

My absolute favorite moment of this episode is when Don Draper finally answered the question: Who is Don Draper?

He's spent weeks writing in his journal about himself, pages and pages. Very like Roger, writing a book. He looks at all those scribbles, and like the painting or the short-hand in that first reporter's notebook, they become a blur. Nothing clear.

He rips out all those pages, and he finally tells everyone who Don Draper is on one, single page. It may seem like he's revealing nothing about himself, but if your read between the lines, he puts himself into a nutshell in that ad: he admits that he's an addict, in particular, he's addicted to what big money can buy him...very like Midge is addicted to what money can buy her. And he knows this isn't good for him (he's quoting from Midge there).

He tells the world that he wants to be seen as the good guy, the white-hatted cowboy, different from all the other ad agency guys out here. He wants to be seen as someone who cares. "Seen" being the operative word here, as Don is well aware that advertising isn't about being altruistic (then again, free ads for the American Cancer society....).

But the ad casts him as the good guy, and others as the bad guy. Even Megan can read what he's saying, "I want to be SEEN as a good guy even if I'm not always good. I want to be SEEN as the hero, even if I'm often a villain."

Most of all, in this ad, Don reveals to the world that he is an ad man. Someone who can take a product like Dick Whitman, package him as Don Draper and sell him. Someone who can take SCDP who's been dumped by American Tobacco and make it seem like THEY heroically broke off from those producing an evil product. He is, in a nutshell, a master at blowing smoke.

One page, one ad. That's Don Draper. Other thoughts on the ad and how it ties in with all we've seen this season about "exposure" and "who is Don Draper"? With two-piece bathing suits, FBI investigations, etc.?

AMC Live Like A Mad Man Sweepstakes Ends

Check back at AMC for the Four Season Event winner and pictures after October 7, 2010

Direct link :
http://chasesweepstakes.amctv.com/

The Number Seven

I am so curious as to why Sally dislikes the number seven. I started thinking about how the number is used. Here are a few that I came up with. Please list any that may help shed some light on this.

7 is saturated in the bible and represents completion
7 days in a week
7 colors in the rainbow
7 deadly sins
7 musical notes
7 Dwarfs
7 wonders of the world
7th letter in the alphabet is G (Glen, Gene...)
7 year itch

Tomorrowland??

I think the title is apt because there is nowhere else for Don to go but to "Tomorrowland."
All his touchstones from the past are gone: Anna, Betty, Rachel, and now tragically, Midge.
Will he be, as Faye predicted, married within a year?
Will he chose Faye (the ineffable Gatsby blonde he's always striven for) or Megan (the dark-haired Gypsy he has always run to)?
Or will he be prudent and chose neither and just wait ?
I think some questions will be answered but some things like "can the agency be saved" will be left for the next season.

"We'll do more listening than talking...like a good girlfriend"

I think I actually yelled at the TV when I heard that one!!!

RACY-This one's for you!

Our resident Maddict, Racy, needs our prayers. Please post your good thoughts to her on here so that she knows she has us for a support team.

Dr. Faye should tell them

Far be it from me to tell Don and company how to run their business, but, in the future, assuming they have a future, and we all know they will.....please do not have all the partners standing in the lobby waiting for the new client. It smacks of sheer desperation. The looks on their faces as they waited for Dr. Atherton to appear with the Phillip Morris reps said it all. Had the client actually showed up for the meeting, Dr. Atherton could have done an impression of Midge's husband and whispered "I'm pretty sure they will do just about anything to have you as a client." ....wink....wink. Someone like Lee Garner, Jr. would have thought he had died and gone to heaven, they looked that eager to please.

LITTLE things TO love

Season 4, Episode 12, "Blowing Smoke."

(In No Particular Order)

1. Admiring Wildlife in the Park.
2. Playing Cards With Your Psychiatrist..
3. HEROIN - A Full Time Job!!!!!!!
4. Peter Piper......
5. FOREVER - Like the "Land 'O Lakes" Box.......
6. Fritos
7. Bad Art
8. Getting Offered the Backwash!?!
9. "Going In" for these kind of Shenanigans.........
10. Low Caliber People.

Ep 11 Erasing the past, and reciprocation..

Ep 12: A new beginning by erasing the past, and the power of listening

Midge: What I think Don is doing is erasing that past. It's not about even what happened, but about the fact the character Midge was there, the pilot episode. And here we are 4 seasons later, and he's saying goodnight to an element of his past. He's saying goodbye to one of our first experiences as the MM viewer; Midge. He's making us say goodbye to her and the past as well.

To me that was the underlying element of his newspaper/cigarette gambit. Don says goodbye to tobacco. Structurally speaking, the newspaper act ties in with the idea of erasing the past; erasing the pilot episode. The pilot episode began with Midge and tobacco. Twice, he's actively said goodbye to strong elements from the pilot episode; Midge and tobacco.

It was said in this episode he built his career on tobacco. He's now leaving tobacco. We as viewers began this entire series seeing Don being Don in the bar in the first scene ever, and I think the second scene was him dropping in on Midge. Tobacco, and Midge, he here years later has now said goodbye to both. Don is erasing the past in more ways than one, beginning with erasing Midge. Then tobacco. Don is erasing the pilot episode for us the viewer.

And earlier now this season he made the first step of leaving the idea of running from his identity issue. He told in his drunken state, off camera, his real name to the waitress who magically appeared. He confessed to Faye, he wants out of running from his past. So here now this episode to add to that he kills elements of the pilot episode. He's killing our beginning of him. Is he killing the pilot episode for us the viewer as part of his escaping his past?

Which all now weaves now into Don making effort. He could have run from the company given Don runs very well from things. But he did what he did regarding the newspaper trying to save the company. He made an effort toward those around him. The idea of emotional effort for people is new in Don.

He made an effort to Peggy in not only keeping her around but asking what she thought of people.

And of great importance, he made an effort toward Pete in fronting Pete's money.

To me, Don learned this through Allison. And he learned it through Peggy schooling him in an earlier late night episode on the power of thank you and appreciation; and his lack thereof.

Since then, Don changed a little. He has been more homely toward Faye since he lost his home with Betty. He accepted no strings attached last week with Megan but was attentive after the sex, unlike telling Allison, yeah whatever you want to write about you I'll sign it. (Allsion just wanted some words from him personally toward her, a real feeling even if it was trivial, just real) Faye and Megan both like him because of this attentiveness from him they have had.

And now he's attentive toward the company, but not just in his Don-uncoventional way.

Things are changing, which is supposed to be one of the underlying themes I'm assuming metaphorically of the decade but here yeah regarding Don as well. Peggy says something to Don about changing identity. Also, Don tears the pages out of his journal and starts over. Turbulence?

Turbulence. Turbulence of SCDP, turbulence last year if you remember the SC/SCDP finale, turbulence in his own life, Peggy is turbulent in her own life, turbulence about work, home and society at large? All these things add up to a metaphor for the decade?

Peggy continues her identity search. She continues her own tug of war of old guard vs new guard. Last week it looked like she chose new guard. This week however she is more interested in spending time after work with Faye rather than with the new alleged hip crowd. Peggy is still an hourglass that keeps flipping before the sand runs out on either side.

Midge tries to cling to Don through sad sex, the way Don was a lil earlier this season, clinging to sad sex. Mirroring. Also mirroring, Midge's guy apparently pimps Midge like Pete and Trudy way back when.

One of the many things MM is about, is crossroads. And here is Don. What does he choose? To run, or stay?

Don chose in his own Don way of expressing the unspoken power of thank you, in working for the future of the company. He chose his alleged newfound appreciation of thank you to make sure Pete was taken care of. He's rather attentive to Faye in a relationship-type way. And he called Peggy in personally. He gave Peggy personal assurance. He gave Peggy personal trust and inclusion as his Don version of thank you in a way she'll understand.

He gave Pete the reassurance in guy terms, money and a silent respect. On the other side, he gave Peggy reassurance in the girl terms of including her and asking her to speak what she feels.

He learned this through Allison.
He got this through Peggy yelling at him.

Don since then has begun to move forward when he learned one thing the hard way; listen to them, pay attention and more importantly...

Reciprocate.

Season 4 Episode 12 - Pre-Show Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 12, "Blowing Smoke," before the episode airs.

Heinz

Did you notice that the scene that immediately followed Don't meeting with the guy from Heinz, was with Betty and the kids in the kitchen; she was serving hotdogs and beans, and there were Heinz condiments on the table! Nice product placement. And...every single thing on this show is deliberate....always! Again, brilliant!

Breaking Up is Hard to Do...or Relationships as Addictions

There were an amazing variety of break-ups--and an amazing variety of ways that people tried to stay in relationships that, as Don put it to Peggy, they "couldn't live without."

Don, for example, decided they couldn't live without Pete, and went to great lengths to keep him--but hid the from Pete. On the other side, Betty wasn't able to give up her habit of the child psychologist, but kept on pretending it was for her daughter's sake, not her's. She did, however, end her relationship with the house and neighborhood, once again, not mentioning the real reason why she felt it time to move.

Which relationships were ended? Which were kept? And how did people "blow smoke" to hide the truth about why they wanted to keep or end such relationships? Pretending, as it were, that "he didn't dump me, I dumped him!"?

Space for Rent

They talked on tonight's episode about subletting space in the office. I had been thinking they might do that; they are supposed to have more than one floor anyway. It might be interesting to have more people from outside the ad industry on the show since they reduced the regulars in the cast so much at the end of last season.

1968 Year of Upheaval - Fitting Year to End On?

1968 was an explosive year for the U.S. and worldwide. The May protests in France; the Prague Spring reforms and revolt; the My Lai massacre and growing Vietnam protests; the Democratic National Convention rioting; assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy.

Or would it be better if MadMen ended in the Summer of Love, 1967? What year do you think would work as a fitting coda for MadMen?

My Favorite Lines of Season 4

Yeah I know its a little too soon but Season 4 has ben a roller coaster of a season (Pass the Maalox Roger). My Favorite Line of the Season is definetly this ego stroker of a line from the Suitcase : "You Know You're Cute" - DFD 1965 (that's Donald Francis Draper to you or is it Dick Whitman? Who Cares!). I know it was Don telling Peggy what she wants to hear but I think that every woman thinks he saying this line to her. Note to self this.. IS YOUR NEW RING TONE. Get out the the memorex. . Anyone else have a favorite line from the season so far?

Good Features Of The Mad Men Talk Forum!

Hi! What are the good features you would like to keep of the Mad Men Talk Forum!
One Good Feature is that we can post threads freely without it being so scrutinized that it's lost its flavor. (Of course as long as it's not a bad one)

MadMen Red Carpet Fashion Forum!

What were they wearing? Who looked the best/worst & why? Who's crying for attention & who needs some new duds to spruce themselves up?

Is Joan spreading the Don/Peggy rumors?

I posted a version of this in an earlier thread, but wanted to repost it separately.

Why is everyone in the office absolutely sure that Peggy slept with Don to get her job? Is it assumption, or has someone been spreading rumors? And if it's someone, my guess is Joan. Joan has always made me nervous. She reminds me to a tee of someone I knew in grad school. And if that's the case, Joan may be a moderate Narcissist. She needs to be the center of attention (especially male), needs and environment where she is Queen Bee (and will manipulate her environment to suit that purpose), will manipulate and lie to get what she wants, and worst she sees any rival as an enemy who needs to be taken down. And for Joan that's Peggy.

Joan created an environment as the original SC where her personal strengths (looks and charm) were the criteria for "success" for a woman in the office. That's why she goes out of her way to disrupt Peggy's rise based on intellect, it would topple Joan from her throne.

Joan comes across in the first episode as trying to help Peggy with her "paper bag" comment and sending her to the doctor. Wrong. Joan ruined her own hopes of getting a husband by sleeping around and then Paul talking about it. So Joan has to ruin things for everyone else. She basically misinforms every new girl about the morals in the office and the naive ones like Peggy fall for it. It's only once Freddy gives advice to Peggy this season about her boyfriend "respecting" her and her boyfriend's assumptions about Peggy that we know Joan was lying.

Ns especially hate people who have integrity because it shows them what they themselves lack. The rumor Pete passes on to Don that Peggy "took down more sailors than the Arizona"? Started by Joan, as in "I have a friend in Brooklyn who knows Peggy (LIE) and says she took down more sailors than the Arizona." Paul and Ken come on to Peggy vulgarly as soon as Peggy starts. Joan makes it sound normal and Peggy should enjoy the attention. Wrong, it's too much. That's because Joan tells the guys something like, "She may come across as demure, but my friend tells me she's wild underneath. She just needs some coaxing." It's a two for one, ruining Peggy's reputation further and putting her in a position to actually ruin it.

Once Peggy starts moving up in the office, Joan starts the sleeping with Don rumors. And Peggy crying in Don's office at the end of the first season saying, "I don't understand. I try to do my job. I follow the rules and people hate me." She doesn't understand because she doesn't know that Joan is badmouthing her behind her back. And the person who broke into Peggy's locker and stole her things? Again, Joan. It's common for Ns to resort to crazy or violent tactics when their subversive ones are not bringing down their "target."

In S2, Joan overtly backs off because she knows Peggy is obviously under Don's "protection." So she must revert to rumors and lies. To the guys, "A secretary told me, and I don't want to give names (same thing she did with Joey in front of Don), that Peggy was bragging how good Don was in bed." To the secretaries, "You want to know why plain Peggy is with Don? Well, Roger said that Don told him Peggy gives him the best bl*w j*b he's ever had." I say "BJ" because it's been a running theme for a few episodes. Neither the guys nor the secretaries will compare notes, so the lies will be taken as truths. That would explain why Allison is unshakably sure that Peggy slept with Don.

In S4, Joan is no longer the center of male attention but is an object of ridicule. The dynamic in the office is beginning to place intellect over appearances for the women. And "Joan's" partner and access to power, Roger, is now the weakest of five partners and married to someone younger. Joan's office world is crumbling.

Peggy firing Joey may have added to Joan's tension with Peggy. It proved that Peggy was much more powerful than Joan (firing a man). A normal person would direct their anger to the "boys" and even to her true "enemy" Jane (snagging Roger), while thanking Peggy. But that's not how an N's mind works. Joan cannot take on the boys or Jane, so she will direct her anger to her chosen "enemy" Peggy. Also, Ns cannot accept that someone has risen above them by being more talented than them. They have to believe that the other person "outschemed" them. Joan thinks Peggy fired Joan not to help her, but to "get one up" on Joan. That's why Joan is so hostile to Peggy in the elevator, accusing Peggy of firing Joey just to make herself look important.

In "Chinese Walls," Stan assumes reserved Peggy had a fling with the delivery boy and tried to do the same. Chauvinistic assumption or based on rumors? Megan basically tells Don she wants a job like Peggy's. And then she proceeds to come on to him and sleep with him. Megan thinks that sleeping with Don is the way to become a copywriter, she practically says it beforehand. Again, assumption or based on "facts" told by someone?

The term "Chinese Walls" refers to information barriers. Could this be an allusion to the information barrier between the secretaries and the rest of the office? Or the information barrier between Peggy and the rest of the staff (who will tell Peggy the rumors straight to her face)? In "Beautiful Girls," Joey calls Joan a "Shanghai Madam" while accurately describing how she "trains" the naïve girls in her office. Is the "Chinese" reference intentional? In "CW" Roger pretends to speak to LG Jr. over the phone and lies that losing the account was a surprise to him. The only way these lies can work is because there is an information barrier between LG Jr. and the other partners. Is this the same strategy Joan is using?

The only way the information barrier could be breached is if someone blatantly tells either Peggy or Don about the rumors. My guess is that it could be Megan talking to Peggy or Don about "what it takes" to get a copywriter's job.

Smoke Gets In Your Eyes / Blowing Smoke

In Season 1, Episode 1, Smoke Gets In Your Eyes:

Then - The opening scene is Don Draper in a bar scribbling ideas for a Lucky Strike campaign that he just can't seem to get a handle on, and his meeting is coming up shortly. - Now, Don and partners have to figure out how to salvage the loss of Lucky Strike account and so far don't have a handle on it.

Then - Greta, the pre-Faye researcher suggest that the danger of smoking is a selling point which Don dismisses out of hand. - Now, Faye is using inside information to help Don sell SCDP to new clients.

Then - Don offers Pete some man-to-man advice about how his playboy escapades - despite the fact that his wedding is this Sunday - will make it hard to climb the ladder. "You'll die in that corner office, a midlevel exec with a little bit of hair who women go home with out of pity." - Now, Don is a divorced man trying to work out his own personal future.

Then - The Nixon campaign becomes part of the plot - Now, Henry's political career.

Then - Peggy thanks Don for standing up for her with Pete. She rests her hand on his. After an awkward moment, he removes it. "I'm your boss, not your boyfriend." He then reprimands her for leaving sensitive documents in the trash for Pete to steal, but tells her that she has a fresh start in the morning. - Now, Don has taken Peggy's hand in gratitude and friendship. There is a likely crisis on the horizon involving sensitive documents. Will Peggy tell Don that he needs a fresh start?

Then - Don tells Rachael that love doesn't exist, that it was invented by Ad Men like him. - Now, ?

Then - after his bachelor party Pete shows up at Peggy's door and impregnates her. - Now, Pete is a new father of a baby girl with his wife Trudy.

Then - At the end of the show we are surprised to discover that Don is actually a married man with children and a home in the burbs. - Now, what surprise awaits us at the end of this episode?

Jessica Paré

Our library released their weekly list of new movies today. One of the titles is "Suck" about a rock 'n' roll band that will do anything to become famous.

The movie stars Jessica Paré, who plays... a vampire.

http://www.fearnet.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2010225/jessicapare.jpg

Spoiler for our friends in other lands

Because of the shortened shelf this thread has already gone bad before it got answered. I'm so curious! Thanks a lot in advance!

Stan Rizzo

Does anyone know the name of the actor who plays Rizzo? I just watched the 2010 remake of "The Killer Inside Me" and I believe he was in it. The actor's name in it is Jay R. Ferguson. Anyone?

Blankenship Death Scene

I know that this is only a TV show but that whole scene is ridiculous.Just because someone kels over doesn't mean they are dead and normally you would call either a doctor of ambulance even in the 60's not the city morgue. Then Bert says to take her to Campbell's(it's a funeral home in NYC) but funeral directors can't just collect bodies without a death certificate signed by a physician. The city morgue usually just collects bodies that are found alone where the person is really obviously dead.. There's also a question of an autopsy because if you die in NYC and were not under the care of a physician or in a hospital there may be a question of foul play involved. How would you know whether Bankenship was poisoned or not? In some places like Texas autopsies are done on every corpse.

Season 4/Episode 12 Opening Scene Predictions

This is for those who do not see the preview b4 it airs...not everybody goes into every part of this site. Don't be a spoiler! The very opening scene including characters & location.......

Mountain Dew Throwback

You may have noticed on the shelves at the company store that Mountain Dew has a "throwback" soda with cane sugar and old packaging. The hillbilly is wearing a checked shirt under his overalls. (He must be going to a wedding.

Speculation: What does this TV Guide article mean?

There is an article in TV guide in which John Slattery is interviewed and says some fascinating things about how this season will end. Here are the highlights:

About Don:

- Don "finds out who he is, but he isn't the person he expected to be, or anyone expected. "

-The question "Who is Don Draper?" is answered "Absolutely, conclusively."

-Don "ends the year transformed."

About the finale in general:

- ""If you look back at the episodes this season, all the threads are leading to answers. There are no surprises. Just pieces of the puzzle falling brilliantly into place."

-When asked for one hint Slattery says, "O.K. Keep an eye on Peggy. She represents the future. The changing world is reflected in her eyes."

So...what so you think all of this means???

Mad Men

Has lost the luster....I was the biggest fan, ever, now I'm wondering.......not as good as the Sopranos, I was hoping......did not live up to its potential......I';m still gonna watch....but with a HUGE grain
t

Season 4 Episode 11 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 11, "Chinese Wall."

Ok, really - what's with the twitter?

The best speculation I've heard on the retweets is that it is people who want to share a particular thread with their twitter followers but there are a bunch of reasons why that doesn't really explain anything.

Why does their retweet turn up in the comments section as a sentence fragment?

It's always just one seemingly random post and then the identical fragment is retweeted by a bunch of people within that post , none of whom are commenters on this forum.

Why would someone tweet a sentence fragment that makes no sense on it's own out to their followers? A link, sure but these partial thoughts couldn't be something that any twitter follower would even be able to make sense of.

Right now there are four identical ones in the "With a little help from my friends" thread. This is what is posted and, I assume, retweeted to followers:

"With a Little Help from My Friends: Anabelle ("that horse meat dog food lady") after that Horse Dog meat Lady (Rog..." I don't get it. Why would anyone tweet that?

Is it a way for people to somehow trawl for followers from these pages?

It's not a catastrophe but it is annoying to have them clogging up the comments section. If they need to stay I'd love to at least know what they are so I can understand and stop being crabby about it :)

Ashley, do you know? Anyone else know?

Is Faye really married?

Just think about it....She stills wears the ring; Don seems to be the only person she's told about it being a "stop sign"; she never takes Don back to her place. Also, she apparently travels for her job and works long hours, giving her ready alibis for time spent with Don.

Don has managed numerous affairs while being married and a successful businessman. Faye seems just as smart and just as capable.

Wouldn't that be an interesting twist....one that might force Don to take another long look in the mirror and, in the end, help him "move forward."

Ep. 12 Speculation - Don's "old friend"

As the short description for this week's episode says, Don runs into an "old friend" as the agency is in crisis.

Who do you think this "old friend" might be? In my mind, there's only one real possibility - Conrad Hilton.

Think about Don and Connie's parting conversation in the last episode of Season 3. After disclosing that SC is about to be absorbed by McCann, Connie tells Don, "I'd have them put you on my international business - but I don't think I'm going to stay there too much longer." He comes and goes as he pleases.

And who else, really, can dig SCDP out of the financial hole they're in? Half their business is gone; Lucky was 24 million; the rest of what they have is barely 20. Without a big account to make up for what they've lost, they're toast.

And if the "old friend" Don runs into isn't related to work - who the hell would it be? Who else is there that could be described as Don's old friend? Of course, these short episodes descriptions can be a little misleading.

Thoughts?

Pete and Trudy's bundle of joy--about 20 years down the road

Isn't it too bad that Mad Men isn't going to last long enough to see Pete faced with the possibility that his precious daughter may wind up in the same position that he placed Peggy in on a cold night in March 1960?

A lot of people like to invoke "karma" on this board, and elsewhere--but I've heard it said that daughters can be payback to their fathers for all their fathers' misbehavior.

With a Little Help from My Friends

Okay so who could the old friend that Don runs into be? The obvious would be Connie Hilton (I know he left a baaaaaad feeling in my tummy too but Mr. Don and the gang at SCDP are desperate Here is my list of people we may or may not want to come back
10. Anabelle ("that horse meat dog food lady") after that Horse Dog meat Lady (Roger's Special Friend) do we really want SCDP to go down the path of second tier dog food/horse meat agency (uh... nope)
9. ) Jimmy Barrett - The Offensive Elf himself -- but didn't he have that show on ABC Grin and Bear it. He was of the cause of Don's divorce. Jimmy Barrett's Punim meet say hello to my fist (Kapow!).
8.)Bobbie Barrett - now that complicates things entirely, She has the show business connections but what about Faye and how about Megan?. Is Don willing to prostitute himself for the sake of SCDP - Maybe.
8.) That weird group from the Jet Set. Don... Just ....Say -....NO!. Then walk away... QUICKLY!
7) Rachel Menken - "The Original take no crap from you" Mr. Draper Lady. But she is happily married and has moved on (maybe?)
6) Belle Jolie Dude - Then Peggy can come full circle but they are only small potatoes correct?
5) Those Nixon people - Come back in three years. Then in 1973 Don can say "Get the hell out my Agency you filthy plumbers!!" (Throws Audio tapes at the door as Nixon group exits).
4) Those people from Madison Square Garden, maybe SCDP can take another crack at it but I wouldn't really call them friends right?
3) GloCoat? Not possible
2) I want my SAL back Stat ( I'll still pray for a miracle).
1) Its got to be Connie. I get the sneaking suspicion that Connie will be back and Don has to do the Client Shuffle. I think that Don will be willing to sell his soul rather than have the agency sink like the Titanic. Unlike Roger I get the sense that when he has his back to the Wall (Unless he's drunk with Duck Philips about to smash his face in ), professional failure scares Don. His Marriage failed and he does not want the same fate for his professional life. Conrad Hilton Come on Down!.

Nostalgia: Looking back through the lists of All Talk Topics...

We've had a lot of fun on here! Too bad they don't go all the way back. What are some of your favorite or not-favorite threads?

Season 4 Episode 11 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 11, "Chinese Wall"? Post the exact quote below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

Spoiler for our friends in other lands

A transcript of the preview that apparently isn't available outside the US (I will post it within the comments section)

Jon Hamm The New Superman

It's between him and Mel Gibson

How did they get away with robbing SC?

I still don't understand how they got away with robbing the old firm. DOn even kicked in the door of the art department. Maybe I missed it, but I have never seen any reaction att all of the owners of SC.

Huff Po review

Janet Turley's review - some good insights here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-turley/mad-men-season-4-ep-11-li_b_752591.html

The Rehabilitation of Roger?

Okay, he blew it with Joan and in the boardroom with Lucky Strike. Does anyone think Roger can make a comeback? He is, after all, a partner and his money is in the firm, too. Anyone have a few scenerios of how Roger could renew his self-worth and value to himself and the agency Is it impossible? Do old dogs learn new tricks?

Off-topic posting

Wanted to wait till mid-week to post this so it isn't too annoying in how off-topic it is but...

I'm curious about where most of us stand on off-topic posts.

First, what is considered an off-topic post? And second, Are we mostly pro, con or indifferent?

We had a two weird (to my view), drive-by new posters complain last week. I'm not at all concerned about them because, in my opinion,they were both the same weirdo that has been reappearing here for years and they proceeded to descend into insanity after enough posting. BUT, I noticed that a couple of nice, regular posters agreed with him/her to a point and a bit later several more non-weirdo, respectable posters also mentioned (gently) that they have a problem with the off-topic posting.

From what I've seen there is very little truly off topic posting but perhaps I'm using the wrong yardstick.

My idea of truly off-topic is along the lines of:

"I know this is OT but I'm sorry I just have to get this off my chest, I am SO angry at my daughter-in-law! She just called me and had the nerve to say... blah blah yadda yadda etc."

I see VERY little of that sort of off-topic posting here.

The "off-topic" posting that annoys people here seems to be woven into ON-topic posting. This type of thing:

"I don't think Peggy should let Don talk to her like that. I once had a boss who did the same thing and I told him ... blah blah yadda yadda etc."
or:
"Almost time for Mad Men - what are you Maddicts drinking? I'm having a gimlet!"

Or another thing that has been mentioned as being annoying is the compliment posting - things like:

"I am so glad to see you back on the board! I missed you!" or "ROFLMAO! You are so funny!". The praising each other posts have been mentioned a few times as being really annoying to a few people. I don't get why that is but I'm willing to learn.

I am willing to go with majority rule on this so I'd like to know where the majority stands. It occurs to me that perhaps there really could be a silent majority on an issue like this. It makes sense that the people who wish everyone would stop blathering might be the people who aren't likely to speak up and complain (that would be blather-like after all).

Please weigh in. I, myself, personally vow to not do any more OT posts (however they may be defined) if I hear that most people don't want to hear it.

Christine Hendricks in "Life As We Know It"

Saw a pre-screening of this movie last night & was pleasantly surprised with it. But our girl, was looking at cute as ever, but unfortunately, was not in it very long. Weird theme, but it worked...and was free!

Freud on Madison Avenue

"In 'Freud on Madison Avenue,' Lawrence R. Samuel delves deep into the consumerist Mad Men of mid-century, explaining how the subconscious mind could be imprinted for commerce, which laid the foundation for consumer insights, brand imagery, and disruptive creative ideas. A terrific read!"
John Gerzema, Chief Insights Officer, Young & Rubicam, and author of "The Brand Bubble"

Chinese Wall - Definition

A term used to describe procedures enforced within a securities firm that separate the firm's departments to restrict access to non-public, material information, in order to avoid the illegal use of inside information.

How does this apply to SCDP?

The Madonna/Whore-complex situation of Don Draper

I'm not sure. Is Don supposed to have a Madonna/Whore-complex?

Don will kick Betty and Henry out of the house in "Blowing Smoke"

He'll sell it as fast as he can, and use the money from the sale to cover the salaries of SCDP's employees to ensure the full continuity of operations as the firm navigates through the crisis.

Don Likes to Sleep Alone

I think Megan is a better match for Don in that she is very upfront about what she wants, plus it didn't hurt that she sent him home (alone) to bed.

I suspect he was a bit disappointed to see Faye waiting for him at the apartment. I cringed for him when he asked if she wanted to stay the night, and she said yes.

The more things change, the more they stay the same

After Don had sex with Megan, he went home to find blonde Faye waiting for him. It was reminiscent of Betty waiting at home for him while he had sex with his brunette mistresses. Faye is now his Madonna and Megan is his whore.

Roger also hasn't changed. He is still acting like a petulant child. Bert Cooper said it all when he told Roger, "Lee Garner Jr never took you seriously because you never took yourself seriously.

Thoughts?

The difference between Megan and Peggy

So, as I was watching the last scene of "Chinese Wall" episode something clicked, What exactly is the difference between Peggy and Megan? Both start(ed) as Don's Secretary but is it more than that? Well we know that the men at SCDP (Don's accountant and Joyce) find Megan attractive, but we learned the following:
A) this young woman has ambition (she wants to eventually do what Peggy does or do what Don does)
B) She went to College- like Jane Siegel Sterling (Don and Peggy did not go to College)
C) She is artistic and from Montreal (Je me Souviens!)
I get the sneaking suspicion that Megan is not all sweet rainbows and lollipops. I think she drank bit of the the Allison punch (aka "Secretary Dew" which has a healthy dose of "I am in love with my boss, to get ahead I need to sleep with him - that's what Peggy did and she is a copywriter " mixed with "Secretary?! ha ha hell to typing and dictation.
I - AM- THE- NEXT MRS. DONALD FRANCIS DRAPER (Je me souviens indeed!).
I am not sure if she has the wit and people smarts of a Joan but it could be that they both use their looks to get what they want.

...a poem

Lucky Strike is out.
Roger lost the account.
So instead of taking the blame,
It's Joan's body he tries to mount!

That part of his life is over,
He's went along for the ride.
Now he's looking pretty tragic,
Let's hope it's not suicide.

Don is still poppin Faye,
And losing his company from underneath.
So what does he do instead of saving it?
He pops the girl with the big teeth!

Is Joannie still carrying a bun-
In that oven she can't control?
Is she gonna keep Roger's dirty secret
Or give him up for a bankroll.

Pete's a new Daddy to a girl
He'll be buying her plenty of toys.
But you know that he & Peggy's baby,
Had to be a boy!

A girl to a man like Pete,
Is cute in all it's ways,
But there's nothing like a male ego
To carry his family name.

Peggy has found her new place,
And really likes her new beau
He's got control of her now,
Including her new found libido

Who will save the day,
And bring SCDP back to life,
Hilton or Sal or Lane-
Or the newly dead husband's wife?

Bryan Batt

Just finished reading Sunday's New York Post and found this article: Those still bemoaning beloved "Mad Men" star Bryan Batt's absence from the show this season shouldn't miss the chance to get their fix when he brings his one-man show "Batt on a Hot Tin Roof" to Feinstein's at the Loews Regency Hotel. His act--which includes singing, dancing and storytelling--begins at 8:30 p.m. today (Sunday) and tomorrow (Monday). Tickets, available at ticketweb.com, begin at $50 for general admission; $25 food and beverage miniumu required once inside. 540 Park Ave. at 61st St. (212) 339-4095.

Sorry New Yorkers if it is too late to catch it.

Why is Betty so mean to Bobby?

I just watch the previews for Episode 12 and I get angry everytime I watch Betty interact with Bobby because she never says anything postive to him. Constant criticism. No bearhugs, no gentle smiles. Yet, Bobby isn't the one rebelling, it's the former spoiled, pampered Sally who use to be the center of attention. How is it that Bobby has adapted to the changes better than Sally? And why does Betty hate her son!

RIP Tony Curtis 1925-2010

His movies were always entertaining, and he was a favorite for me, even if he wasn't one of the greatest actors of his generation. Pretty darn good, and he managed to be in some fantastic classics, too: Some Like It Hot, Spartacus, The Great Race, The Vikings, Sweet Smell of Success, Boston Strangler, Goodbye Charlie, Sex and The Single Girl, etc. The list goes on and on.

Sunday, October 10, TCM is running a 24-hour marathon tribute of 12 of his films. Enjoy! (Sorry about the off-topic, AMC).

If you are having problems posting...

I've noticed a few topics on this subject. If you are using Internet Explorer Version 8 (IE8), try going to "Tools" and selecting "Compatibility View". This should correct the problem. At least it did for me.

I've noticed that a few websites I visit routinely need this feature in IE8 "turned on" in order to work correctly.

Does Don deserve the faith that his coworkers place in him?

Your Post

Girls, Is this guy really that impossible to say no to?

OK, Don's a stud. No question that he's a smoking hot dude, but, does every woman in the world feel an irresistible compulsion to drop her panties in the presence of this guy? I can think of no exceptions: a girl meets Don and she's in heat. Chicks he doesn't even put a move on knock on his door and demand service. Is this really possible. I'm not a bad looking guy but truthfully I've never seen anything like this in my life. Ladies, do you really act this way? If so I'm really jealous of Jon Hamm.

Problems posting!!! Help!!

For some reason, and since the posting format seems to have changed, I cannot post comments! I even tried changing my name and e-mail and re-registering. I have been posting here for 3 years so what does anyone out there think is wrong?? My error message simply says it could not post my comment to the server....period. I have written to AMC 3 times but they won't respond. Good luck if this message gets published. (I formerly posted under Jolie10)

Did Roger ever really love Joan?

When Roger shows up at Joan's apartment after his non-meeting with American Tobacco, he immediately wants to begin the lovemaking process. When Joan tells him she only wants to talk, he loses interest and leaves.

When Joan and Roger were discussing Joan's pregnancy at the diner, Roger said, "I haven't stopped thinking about you. Maybe I'm in love with you." He goes on to say, "If there's going to be something between us, I don't want it to start this way. Do you? With a scandal?" He continues with, "But I guess you could keep it. It wouldn't be my child. Let's make that clear."

MAYBE I'm in love with you? It wouldn't be my child, LET'S MAKE THAT CLEAR?

For all these years, it has seemed like there was a special connection between Roger and Joan... that they were somehow "meant" to be together. But now that a genuine opportunity has presented itself, Roger is more concerned with things like "scandal" and ways to "take care of" the situation.

What do you think? Did Joan ever mean more to Roger other than an ego-boosting sexual diversion?

Don's New Secretary

Who plays Megan and where have I seen her before? Anyone? She does not appear in the cast of characters on this site.

Who plays Megan and where have I seen her before? Anyone? Can't find her in the cast.

Your Post

Men.... Hats? 1965?

I think not. JFK practically put hat salesmen out of business because American men stopped wearing them. Why are Don and Roger still walking around wearing hats?

Why was Joan not wearing her wedding ring?

Sorry, I haven't had time to read through the open thread for Ep. 11, so I don't know it this was covered or not....But, I noticed Joan was not wearing her wedding or engagement ring last night. Any theories on that?

Death of a Salesman

The funeral scene was very telling. Lying in the coffin is a successful ad man with his mourning wife and daughter seated near the casket while a colleague delivers a eulogy. Seated in the congregation are Don and Pete. Tehe euglogy includes a description of how, although this man was away from his family most of the time, he always stopped on the road to buy a silver thimble for his wifes collection.. Meanwhile Don's family is practically estranged and Pete is dealing with the Lucky Strike crises when his daughter is being born. What is this scene saying about Don and Pete?

LLLLittle THINGS tO LLLLove..........

Season 4, Episode 11, "Chinese Wall."

(In No Particular Order)

1. Giving It Off!!!!!!
2. "They Should Cut It Out!!!!"
3. Don - The Wild West.....
4. The harp at the Sterling's club-like home.
5. "Beach Peggy's" red stripe tee.
6. Liar Roger.......
7. Joan's chunky square earring removed to answer the phone.
8. "Go back to the candy machines."
9. Don's sweet but unbachelor - like kitchen wallpaper.
10. Vinegar, Sauces and Beans.
11. Danny's unanswered question?
12. A Tiffany Rattle!!!!!
13. ALFA ROMEO.
14. Men with Hats.
15. Faye's Deee-Gorgeous Print Blouse!!!!!
16. "Good- Night Mr. Draper!!!"

EP 11 Home vs Sanctuary and Don's relationships

Mother and a Waitress:

Don seems to have found a new mother and a waitress in Megan. Things taken care of for him. And that's all. WIth Faye, she wants to be owed. Allsion felt she was owed also. We don't even need to mention Peggy in this regard. Women want emotional payment from Don. But Megan doesn't demand that.

Remember Megan's line about not running out of here crying etc. Note the line of Don telling Megan to watch him on his drinking; asking for mother and a waitress. As well as, she fixes his trophy. She sees something wrong and fixes it for him. And even leaving in the end, she's telling him as he is leaving, how to go, taking care of him.

Don has two versions of home. He comes to his 1st home, i.e. work, Megan is waiting for him. He then comes home to his apartment, 2nd home, Faye is also waiting for him. Brunette vs blond both yet again waiting for Mr. Draper.

But he says "thank you" to Faye. Between his recent dealings with Allison and then Peggy in different ways, he's learned the lessons of honey vs his own lessons of vinegar with business, here with Megan and Faye.

Then there's that 3rd version of home, Betty, which as of last week was a little more positive, and was absent here tonight. Symbolical in my opinion, Betty's absense this episode.

Kicked to the curb vs the comeback:

Peggy kicked the artsy guy to the curb. He made a comeback.
Roger has been kicked to the curb in more ways than one, he attempts a comeback.
Faye kicks Don to the curb, he comes back with Megan, and then Faye herself.

The business is beat down at the end, but Don personally is making a comeback in now previously having an empty fishbowl, now he has too many fish.

Pete and Peggy have a parallel in that they're being fought over. Peggy fought over with the new guard and the old guard, and Pete now with the smarmy guy vs his own home of SCDP. Remember back when the one guy courted Betty to woo Don over, and Don told him on the phone, "bad move". The smarmy guy here tries the same thing with Pete. Showing up at the hospital and getting in with the in-laws to woo someone over for business?

Speaking of which we saw for the first time Roger in a light colored suit. Also, Roger yet again dealt with the immediate or the metaphor of death through a lense of sex, which is a whole other tangent we could go on with Roger. But Roger has felt death, yet again, here with the Lucky Strike thing. Also Roger has now been dealt another form of death through the end of Joan. Many things regarding Roger, we can say, it's over. Like Blankenship dying... the bell is tolling.

But in the end....

Don fights with the agency, clients, and fights with the blond who to him is home-like.

But, he finds sanctuary, a certain and simple and different kind of home, in the brunette.

Isn't this exact struggle what really is home for Don, his seemingly eternal search for home; yet...the struggle itself which is home?

Home with the blond, but sanctuary with the brunette. Do we men want home, or sanctuary? Or do we want both. But wait a minute...aren't they both supposed to be one in the same? Maybe, sometimes the real answer is...no. (que your booooing now)

Or is this one of the greater themes of Mad Men?

Home and sanctuary: are they synonymous, or actually in real life and marriage, mutually exclusive?

I know, Booo right? But MM makes you ask these questions...

Megan is the hottest woman EVER on Mad Men

Sorry, it needs to be said

Season 4 Episode 11 - Looking Ahead (Spoiler Free)

In this new feature on the Mad Men Talk forum, commenters have the opportunity to post their thoughts on this Sunday's episode before the episode airs. The goal of the "Looking Ahead" post is to provide a spoiler-free forum for Mad Men fans (both East Coast and West Coast) to discuss the upcoming episode without interrupting the flow of conversation of the Open Threads for the previous or upcoming episodes. An Open Thread for Episode 11 will be posted Sunday night shortly before broadcast. As always your feedback is welcome!

Has anyone had this issue?

I can never post against an existing thread -- either replying to an existing response or commentiing to a thread. It tries 3 times and then notifies me that it could not post to the server. I can however start new threads / conversations. Any clues what it could be? Thanks!

Yikes! Will Roger Be The Falling Man?

Checklist for Self-worth Destruction: Roger Sterling:
Lucky Strike Gone? ... Check.
Joan Dumping Him? ... Check
Vanity Published Memoir Provided by clueless child-bride savage kick to psychic crotch? ... Check.
Loss of Don's fealty/friendship? Check.
Hemingway fan? ... Check.
Hope the windows don't open in the Time-Life Building!
Is the Boy Prince about to off himself leaving behind a no doubt witty suicide note on his groovy white desk?

Episode 11 -- NO SPOILERS

Sorry but I cannot seem to post to existing threads. Episode 11 was a most disappointing episode to me, mainly b/c Don Draper did not feel like Matt Weiner's DD to me. Right now I feel like for the season finale DD is going to be answering studio calls to replace Sean Connery as 007. And much of the episode was actually good, but the ridiculous just was too ridiculous!!! Boyfriend & I were literally going HUH, WTF???!!! So it's not a female or male thing.

Megan is hot !!

She's hot she's hip, she's cultured and ambitious. Where is this going? What are your thoughts on Megan's potential as Don's love interest? Will Faye last or is she putting too much into this relationship?

Vincent Kartheiser: Car-less in L.A.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/fashion/03With.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=vincent%20kartheiser&st=cse

Season 4/Episode 1 Opening Scene Predictions

This is for those who do not see the preview b4 it airs...not everybody goes into every part of this site. Don't be a spoiler! The very opening scene including characters & location.......

Having lived "Mad Men"....Madison Avenue 1960

You might find yourself thinking, "This couldn't really be the way it was!" Rest assured, it is exactly the way life [still] was in the 1960s. Mad Men has received critical acclaim, particularly for its historical authenticity.
For more, please visit the below-mentioned link

barbara
http://www.welcometobarbarasworld.com/

I've Got a Secret

I stumbled upon this clip and find it interesting on so many levels....

Just thought I'd share. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McKpP3PkIks

John Slattery's Lincoln ads....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWhaxXtBC-I

SAL

In this weekend's Parade Magazine someone asks Sir Walter Scott "Is Bryan Batt ever coming back to Mad Men?"

Walter answers: "He's not dead," Batt says of his character Sal Romano, who disappeared last season. Mad Men creator Matt Weiner also confirms that Sal's still alive, but that's all they're saying. While awaiting his fate, Batt wrote what he calls a "momoir," She Ain't Heavy She's My Mother. "She's like a Steel Magnolia meets Auntie Mame; when hardships came her way, she rose above them -- in style."

Hamm Oglers (silly weekend thread)

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jon Hamm Oglin' Society... enjoy! BTW, no worries, it's decent. PG.

http://www.omgblog.com/2010/09/omg_its_bulgy_jon_hamms_packag.php

What do we know, and who else knows what, about Don Draper (as far as we know)?

Betty - Don walked Betty through the box full of pictures last season; knows he's Dick Whitman, a whore-child, whose mother died at birth, father died after kicked in head by horse, raised by stepmother Abigail and Uncle Mac (who was nice to him) on a farm, and very poor, lost the farm after father died and moved to coal country in PA; had a half-brother Adam who committed suicide because Don rejected him when he found Don at SC via 'award' article in trade pub. Betty knows that the real Don Draper was married to Anna Draper; Don has taken care of Anna financially and bought her a house; Anna gave Don a divorce so that Don could marry Anna; that Don visited Anna in CA while Don/Betty were separated. Betty knows that the G-men are digging into Don's past in connection with an account and that Don's concerned.

Henry - knows that Don applied for a security clearance and that G-men showed up to ask Betty questions because she told him. Don't know if Betty ever told Henry about Dick Whitman, but doubtful that she did.

Anna (RIP) - knew that Don was Dick Whitman, and about Adam.

Rachel Mencken Katz - knows that Don's mother died in child birth, a 'whore-child', and raised by two miserable people, Abigail and Archie (his father) and then Uncle Mac after Archie died. Rachel does not know about Dick Whitman or the Korea story, or about Adam or Anna.

Dr. Faye - only knows that Don took another soldier's name in Korea and continued to live under that name, Don Draper; that the Feds want to know about Don Draper re the NAA account.

Bert - knows that Don is really Dick Whitman; took another soldier's name in Korea and is living under that name; Don may have deserted the army. Bert doesn't know anything else about Dick Whitman as far as we know, but Bert 'knows' that the NAA acct was lost because of Don's identity issue and that Pete's taking responsibility for the screw-up anyway.

Pete - saw Don's box full of pictures and two sets of dog tags; knows that Don is really Dick Whitman; took another soldier's name in Korea and is living under that name; deserted the army (Don told him that); the 'real' Don Draper was an engineer, is older than Dick and may have family who may be contacted by G-man; the security clearance form completed by Megan from Don's personnel file) has 3 false answers (at least).

Doris (diner waitress) - thinks that Don's name is Dick from the lost weekend episode.

Megan - completed the security clearance form from info in Don's personnel file, and knows that 'this is very serious'.

Stephanie - knows that Dick Whitman (her aunt Anna's friend) is Don Draper. Anna must have told her. Stephanie called Don's office at SCDP asking for "Don" not Dick.

Miss B (RIP) - knows that Don has a friend in CA named Anna and may know Stephanie too if she called Don's office will Miss B was on Don's desk.

Peggy - knows that Anna, a friend of Don's, who really knew him, died in CA. Don took Anna's death very hard.

This week's recap from Best Week Ever

Enjoy!

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2010-10-01/mad-men-recap-guess-who-is-coming-for-draper/

Finale viewing in NYC?

Does anyone know if there are public viewing parties in NYC for the finale?

I think I remember posters talking about it last year -
Did Basket of Kisses do one at a restaurant in NY?

For the last 3 years I've been the only one in my group of friends to watch it so I didn't want to go completely alone but this year I talked one of my friends into catching up on the previous 3 seasons - she crammed all 39(?) episodes into 2 weeks (Thank you Netflix) and now she comes over every Sunday to watch with me (she doesn't get AMC) - we make 60's themed dinners and cocktails `and watch the show.

I'm thinking a night out for the finale would be fun!

Also - any of you in the NYC area and planning on going to something like that?

This has made me angry

I joined these forums last night (Thursday). I had a great time and was greeted by some great posters, and we had a great time. I was even asked by TipsiM to get an avatar. I did. I came back to the forums on Friday afternoon and evening and by the evening, something had changed. Apparently because I remind two posters (on the Looking ahead thread) of some other poster they did not like in season 2, I am evidently not welcome. Huh? I just began watching Mad Men this year. A friend loaned me her DVD's and I watched seasons 1-3. I am now watching season 4 along with everyone else here. I like the show very much. I had a riot on Thursday with so many of you but as mentioned, Friday came and one poster (who later apologized but seemed to set the tone on a sour course) told me I was here "in c/o411" (I don't know what that means) and wondered why I was fixated on Don and Sal and why I was here in the first place! Another poster answered the first one and said she too thought I smelled! Or something in Maryland smelled. I took that to mean me. I hold no ill will toward these people but I can assure everyone I am not here to ruin the site, harm anyone, or post anything of a harmful nature. And I haven't. For Pete's sake (and Trudy's), I am now angry that it's okay to accuse someone of something here based solely on the fact that the accused REMINDS them of someone else from two seasons past! Say what? Look, I thought this would be fun but I sure don't need a war party after me because my avatar or my name or the way I write REMINDS someone of another disliked person. My stars, as Samantha Stephens would say!

New York Magazine Interview with Kiernan Shipka

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/09/mad_mens_kiernan_shipka_on_the.html

Please spoil the preview for me (can't watch it on the site)

Can anyone be so nice to tell me about the preview? Thanks in advange!

Pete and Trudy's Baby Pool

Girl
October 15
6 lbs

Spoilerish TV Guide Final Episode Description

I don't know if this has been posted yet but TV guide has the following listed for the final episode this season...

Season 4, Episode 13
"Episode Synopsis: In the Season 4 finale, a surprising opportunity rears its head for both Don and Peggy, leaving them with life-altering decisions to make."
http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/mad-men-2010/episode-13-season-4/tomorrowland/289066

Any thoughts on what this might mean?

Season 4 Episode 10 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 10, "Hands and Knees."