Topic Discussion Threads Too Long...

...can we keep this part short, then put the main stuffing in the thread itself? Makes it easier to view all topics.

How Many?....

How many of us noticed that it was Betty wearing the white fur in the poster Roger commented on during one of the flashbacks we saw between Roger and Don at the furrier!? I only caught in on a subsequent viewing.

Don's sales slogans are often so cryptic; I'm still trying to decipher the one for GloCoat that won the Clio. I love LIFE cereal, but, can't recall ever eating it as a child. (My mother was a hot cereal kinda breakfast-cooker....

Oh, and what about the hand-holding and smack Don and Joan shared??? I'm certainly going to keep watching!!!!

"Mad Men" Stars Shill for Real Brands, Blurring the Show's Boundaries

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1662205/mad-men-stars-shill-for-real-brands-blurring-the-shows-boundaries?partner=design_newsletter

"Dick," said Doris

Well, well, coming on to a pretty waitress during one of his drunken binges, Don Draper slips and tells her his name is Dick. Just Dick or Dick Whitman? Was his Clio groupie there when he did this? Did she walk away in a huff because he was flirting with the waitress, and will she later wonder why he used the name Dick? Or was she too hungover to care? Will she gossip to others about her fling with Don Draper and what interesting bits of Don Draper history he might have let slip to her? Guess we will have to wait and see.

While we are waiting though, how about we place our bets on who will be next to find out about Don Draper's alter ego. The way Don is drinking, you just know he is going to spill the beans to someone. Who will it be....Mrs. Blankenship? Phoebe, the sympathetic nurse? The intrigued, by wary, Dr. Faye? The seen and heard it all, but her lips are sealed, Joan? Who is your pick, and do you think they will keep Don's secret or pass it on to someone else?

Mad Men Season 10??

hahaha they did a video "preview" of what S10 would be like...i love Don Draper in drag - http://bit.ly/dkxSW4

Emmy Winner

Brian Cranston was so right, Jon you were robbed!

Don Draper's Personality as a Young Man is Not In Sync with His Older Self.

Your personality doesn't really change that much after the teen years. If you're sophisticated at 18 you will be the same at 30, 50, 75 and so on.

Yet Don has a whole different demeanor with Roger in the flashbacks, with Anna in California, and with the real Don Draper. He comes across as naive and geeky. Anyone who went through his kind of childhood, would be different, not so eager to please, if you will. He would act very similar to the very serious Don Draper that appears a few years later.

However, it might be just bad acting on Jon Hamm's part or bad directing in trying to depict a younger version of Don.

Does anyone see what I'm getting at here?

Mad Men: Behind the scenes at Rolling Stone

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/photos/17382/196362/

Calling Bluffs or the Threat of Exposure

Interesting theme this week about how easily the powerful can be toppled because they are bigger targets--and have more to fear from exposure. In fact this David vs. Goliath theme is almost literal as Peggy and Danny are physically small compared to their opponents (Stan and Don). Peggy is sequestered with Stan who Don asserts is more talented ("you have to work with him, not he with you!"). She defeats Stan by calling his bluff on nudity, exposing him, literally, as being not so cool as she about it. He ends up having to work with her, not vice versa.

Peggy also wins in a similar way against Don. She remembers what he forgot about stealing the ad. "You have to work this out," she commands him. So smaller Peggy wins against Don by, likewise, threatening to expose him as a thief, as not so "brilliant" as he wants everyone to think.

Back in Don's office, small Danny calls powerful Don's bluff, refusing to be bought off. Again, Don's chink in the armor here is the fear of being exposed (stealing Danny's idea). Danny has nothing to lose. He doesn't have to give in, as Don does.

And, of course, back in time, Don does something similar with Roger. Roger doesn't want to be "exposed" as someone who got too drunk to remember what he said-nor, we presume, does he want his affair with Joan to be exposed.

Exposure has been the running theme of this season. This week the message seemed to be that power is in the hands of one who loses nothing when exposed, vs. one who will lose everything if exposed. And so little Davids (small targets) are often far more powerful than over-confident Goliaths (big targets).

Thoughts?

MM on the cover of Rolling Stone

It releases tomorrow.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/17386/196882

give me a mad men flashback.

this episode gave us a good series of flashbacks from the perspective of don, joan, and roger, but it made me wonder, what other burning questions from the past would we like to see acted out on screen?

while most of the flashbacks/dream sequences occur before the show starts -- dick whitman's childhood, his wartime recollections, his salesman days -- they have also cover gaps in the story like when he went to visit peggy in the sanitarium.

so it begs the question, what other scenes do we want -- need? -- to see acted out on the screen to get closure? and what characters do you think might pop up as a result.

Why Didn't Rizzo Shag Peggy?

The girl was asking for it but he was petrified of doing it with her. Peggy even made fun of him when she said they made a little change referring to the work and held her two fingers about an inch apart to mock him.

Response to SLWAYL's post "Parallels"

I'm sorry to reply this way after several failed attempts to respnd to the thread I went this route.

Yes many parallels this week. You are so right. I tend to look at each episode in terms of these parallels being drawn off of larger themes. In addition to your great observations here is some more food for thought.
This week:

CHILDHOOD -
1. Roger writing his auto biography and obsessing over his childhood.
2. Life cereal campaign - "Life is scary" make the bowl bigger so that the child looks smaller and younger and therefore innocent for longer.

ALCOHOL- Well that's always kind of a running theme but......

1. Duck's drunken bravado at the CLIO awards
2. Roger's drunken blackout when he hired Don.
3. Don's drunken blackout when he : stole someone else's slogan idea , slept with a waitress and told her his name was Dick, lost his trophy (there's symbolism in this somewhere too), forgot to pick up his kids and just slept the day away.

CIRCLES -

1. Roger was once Don and Don the young _ "I'll do anything for a chance" and now Jane's cousin has taken the same turn on Don. Don telling Roger (in the flashback) that he hired him during their liquid brunch saying 'Welcome Aboard" and Don waking up with a waitress and losing a day or two not remembering their conversations.
2. Ken and Pete - Juxtaposed against one another as at one point being the young hopefuls (just like Don once was) now Pete is asserting his power, thirsting for more, reveling in it.

3. Peggy- The ultra conservative that continues to display ultra liberalism.

The Casting Call challenge - impossible to win honestly?

Sad to say, I'm wondering if anyone who approaches the Mad Men Casting Call contest in good faith actually has a chance - and I suspect the answer is no. If anyone has any theories as to how someone could rack up a small country's worth of votes using only their personal connections and social networks, I'd sure like to hear 'em.

Call me naive, but after putting real effort into a strong, authentic-looking photo last year, then seeing the gallery of top vote-getters riddled with noobs in generic suits who were about as "Mad Men" as a J. Crew catalog from 1996 - I was surprised and very disappointed. It's a slap in the face of those who took the essential premise of the contest at face value and really did their best.

But more than that, it calls into question how exactly they got so many votes. Even just a few weeks into the contest, at the start of August, these people had 200,000 votes or more, and their vote count has since ballooned to half a million or more. Even accounting for the possibility of a "bandwagon effect", where site visitors who had no personal stake in anyone's entry simply voted for the top person, regardless of how (in)appropriate their entry was, I just can't figure how anyone could get such massive voting numbers. It's certainly not due to having that many "friends"... and for at least one imminent finalist (*cough* Andrew Drake *cough*) it's also clearly not due to any merit in their "Mad Men Style".

So... how did they do it?

I know there's software out there to enable repeat votes far more often than once a day, and even though the contest rules clearly disqualify anyone who uses that method, it's hard to believe some of that did not take place.

It's also notable that up to a week or so ago, there seemed to be no "CAPTCHA"-style check required before voting. I only first encountered that box with the ransom-note-style words in it after many days of checking the site. Could it be that hackers were still allowed to roam free in the early days of the contest? That seems to be the only reasonable explanation for hundreds of thousands of votes.

And the fact that the top votegetters have more than doubled their numbers in only a couple of weeks seems to imply that, if there's no hacking involved, people are indeed voting blindly for the top-listed entrants. Wisdom of crowds, my eye!

Any thoughts or suggestions from anyone on this?

At any rate, I apologize if I sound a little bitter - I actually am quite happy to at least be in the running - and I even made a YouTube promo I'm quite proud of, to try to help get more attention to my Mad Men cause. It's here:

http://bit.ly/AdamsMadMenVideo

And you can vote for me at: http://bit.ly/VoteForAdam

Thanks!
Adam

Recommended Lines for Future Episodes

Whenever my father was informed that his zipper was down, he'd say, "It pays to advertise." I want Roger Sterling to say this in an episode. Matthew Weiner, make it happen... please???

Top 5 That You Like on MM~& Don't

Just for fun, who you like and don't, even little reasons why. Maybe we can get a percentage vote!

"IT IS SUNDAY!!"

(Please excuse if this has been covered elsewhere.)

On Friday night Don goes to bed with a woman from the bar and wakes up, two days later with some other woman. I just replayed the scene to be sure, and the second woman calls him "Dick"...is our Don really going off the deep end? Is his mind being terribly scrambled by all the drinking?

Was this Don's Very Lost Weekend?

how old is dick whitman ?

i know that "don draper" is 39 but how old is dick whitman. we know that dick assumed don draper's identity in the summer of 1950. should we believe he also assumed his age as well? i think dick whitman is actually 3-4 years younger than he says he is.

My Favorite Mad Men Episode

Just wanted to say that Episode 6 "Waldorf Stories" is almost as good as my other Roger envy Don episode "Red in the Face" from Episode 2. I think that this episode is similar given the alcohol and alpha male marking his territory theme. Thooughts

Without Joan you are nothing!

One thing that I noticed with episode 6 without Joan there would be no Don Draper, no Peggy, no SCDP, no Lane, no Mad Men as we know it. Would Don have still been selling furs and writing bad copy if Roger did not buy that stole for Joan?.

A Beatles Song for all

So if you could dedicate a Beatles song to a mad men character what would it be here are my picks...

Don takes Ms. Blankenship out on a date!

Scenario: Don falls from the building, Ms. Blankenship sees this and takes a big fly swatter and catches him not knowing what it is as she analyzes him with a big magnifying glass. Don wakes up from his daze, and as if he were in a spell, it's love at first sight. He's crazy about her and begins his courtship...

After Party?

Any thoughts on this? Did Roger mention something about going to an after party? Isn't this really a more current phrase? Don't ever remember hearing it in the 60's.

Episode 6 and continuity - a problem?

Based on Roger and Joans' conversation in the season 1 episode where their affair is revealed to us, their affair has supposedly been going on for about a year at that point (remember Roger's line? "This has been the best year of my life..." or something like that). That puts the start of their affair sometime in 1959.

But how well does this fit with the flashbacks we saw in episode 6 last night? The costumes seem to suggest that Roger discovers Don at least a few years prior to 1960 (look at Joan's hair, the clothes, etc.) But how can this be, if Roger and Joan didn't start seeing each other until 1959?

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that Roger and Joan had a few dalliances before they started seeing each other regularly around 1959. But this at least stretches the credibility of Roger and Joan's hotel room conversation in season 1, which strongly suggests they've only begun sleeping together in the past year.

Did anyone else notice this, or have any thoughts about it? It's all very technical/anal and all, but I find it pretty interesting to piece together the Mad Men time line.

Mrs. Blankenship Fan Club Meeting!

"And here's to you, Mrs. Blankenship, Mr. Draper loves you more than you will know, whoa, whoa, whoa...."

Greetings, Blanken-teers! It's time again for the weekly meeting of the Mrs. Blankenship fan club! I know you were all disappointed on how little we go to see of our favorite secretary this episode. However, the fan club has got you covered!

Hot off the presses, we have, just for Fan Club members: "Mrs. Blankenship's Guide to Being the Perfect Secretary" (Or "How I wrote and finished a book before Raw-ger")

Written and signed by the woman herself, the book includes such chapters as:

*Caw-fee Making 101 (with special notations on how to pick out the perfect roll to go with that coffee for your boss!)
*How to work the intercom buzzers
*How to inform your boss that someone is waiting for him after the fact
*What to do when the Doctor is a "she"!

And much, much more! And if you mail in your order before Episode 7, we'll throw in a copy of "Mrs. Blankenship's Guide to Manhattan Eateries." Just send two Life Cereal box tops and $1.50 to the Mrs. Blankenship Fan Club, c/o SCDP Time Life Building, 2nd Floor, N.Y. N.Y. Quantities are limited.

And now, I call this meeting to order. What have we to discuss about our beloved secretary this week?

This competition is painful to watch

Whatever methods were put in place to circumvent cheating, they're clearly not working. It's depressing, as I watch one entrant come out of nowhere, to gain literally 500 votes in an hour, and have no doubt that trend will continue. This isn't even a popularity contest anymore as people have stated. It's a competition as to who has the best bot. Another entrant has over half a million votes. The competition has been running for not even 40 days. 15,000 people voting for that one person daily? Hopefully within the best top 20 bot owners, there is at least someone with a semblance of style chosen but even then, I should say the competition seriously lacks credibility if obvious bot users aren't flat out eliminated.

CONGRATULATIONS TO MAD MEN'S 3RD YEAR EMMY!!

A little celebration card from us Maddicts!
Everybody please sign!!

LITTLE THINGS TO LOVE !?@#%$&

Season 4, Episode 6, "Waldorf Stories."

(In no particular order)

1. Pebbles & Bam-Bam (Let the sun shine in.......)

2. Big Boy Y-Fronts.

3. The Smuggest BITCH in the World!!!!

4. "Fix It!!!!!!"

5. Fruitcake and Chicken Shit........

6. "The cure for the common something"

7. Duck off the wagon.......

8. "Put a cherry on this thing"

9. Extra super skinny tie on mini man!!!!!!!

10. "Lubricated to Morose"

11. Don the Kid

12. Butt shot of Blankenship.

13. Drunken/Time Lapse Don.......

14. Up...Up,,,,,Up The Ladder Of Success.......

15.Calling Joey......Jody........

16. Bay Rum.....

17. The Power of Peggy..........

18. Play- Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Season 4 Episode 7 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 7, "The Suitcase."

Road Not Taken

These appear to be the paths and choices of the characters:
Don Draper --> either he gets together with Dr. Faye, who becomes his love interest, or else she's the one who finally convinces him to get help for his alcohol problem.

Pete either has the baby with Trudy, or else Trudy has a miscarriage, opening the door for Pete and Peggy getting together despite the choices they've made along the generational path.

Pete also continues to bring in business or climb the ladder or finds himself back in competition with Ken Cosgrove. Don and Pete have had plenty of scenes throughout the history of Mad Men, but Don and Ken have had relatively few.

Peggy gets wooed to go to another company, finds a man and tries to have both a career and relationship, or gets together with Pete. Based on Duck's alcoholic stupor, he's not likely the one to bed down with Peggy, nor convince her to go to the other side.

Don and Betty will not have a reconciliation. Before, she was angry at Don, apparently still holding a grudge against him for the way he treated her with his secrets and philandering. Now, she can't even count on him to pick up the kids. At one point, I disliked Henry Francis, but right now, he's one leg up on Don in the chivalry department.

Roger appears ready to be put out to pasture. Maybe he gets Joan in the end. Maybe John Slattery leaves the camera and stands behind it as the Mad Men director.

Sally, who's had a prominent role this season, more so than Betty, will either run away or live with Don.

All of these are different plot paths for Matt Weiner to follow. He appears to want to take the "Road Not Taken," though and may pull out a few surprises.

Joan's "Marilyn Monroe" Phase

Now we know why she cried so hard when Marilyn died. Wow. Marilyn was clearly Joan's idol, as Joan was doing a not-so-subtle but simply beautiful Marilyn impression there in the hotel room. Hair, breathy voice.

Color me amazed. I fully expect Mad Men to keep astonishing me with the ways they manage to raise the bar in making Christina Hendrix sexy, but I never imagined seeing her like that.

She managed to show us that Joan succeeded where the Ann Margaret girl, and Betty trying to be Grace Kelly did not. Joan managed to emulate Marilyn yet still be herself. Capture the essence of that allure without being a copy. Incredible.

I'm guessing that many are going to have a new favorite screen saver of Joan thanks to that scene.

Cure for the common plot?

So Don stole a line from a less than talented kid's book, but bit the writers of Mad Men steal a plot from another TV show?

Last year there was a short lived TV show on TNT called "Trust Me" also taking place in the ad world, except it was modern day and more comedic. In one of the episodes, the EXACT thing happens: the creative director meets a young talent who nobody likes, but later accidentally sells a client a line from the kid's book, forgetting where he heard it from. At the end of the episode he was forced to hire the kid in order to use the line.

Come on Mad Men! I love you but tsk, tsk, tsk...

Parallels

Many on the main thread are discussing all the similarities between different characters and situations that came up this week. Like Don being contemptuous of Duck's outburst at the awards and then proceeding to go on a weekend long bender himself. Or the way in which Don secured his place at Sterling Cooper and the way that Roger's short little cousin-in-law weaseled his way into SCDP. What else ya got?

Peggy is my hero

I love what peggy did on tonight's episode. She is my hero.
Here's my recap of the episode.
http://elisesramblings.blogspot.com/2010/08/mad-men-episode-6-season-4.html
Don is definitely not my hero.

Joan legshot, comfort of femininity

The Joan legshot. To me, I thought excellent use of sexuality to distract us to make us think it's rooted in male competition for a woman. But, I thought both of them taking her hand was more about the original line from Joan in the pilot, to Peggy, "most of these men want a mother and a waitress."

They're both Alpha males, constantly in competition on more than one level. But in the face of hopefully the moment of triumph instead of high-fiving and chest thumping and male posturing etc....they each independently, unknowing, took the woman's hands instead, at the moment of climax.

They could have shot it with both of them taking her hands above table in group joy. But 2 things:

They both hid it from each other, so it was under the table to not let the other see.

But second, they're both grown men reaching for her hands, the woman, in this moment which could mean a lot.

It was way more personal, visually, seeing the two Alpha males both reach for the comfort of femininity; and her legs were the symbol of that femininity to us the viewer as both Don and Rger took her hands.

Mad Men 1st Episode

When I first saw this, it reminded me of my dad. But now that I have watched it for 4 years, I am so glad it is not about my dad. He was so much better than that.
Don Draper is a fictional character & I think not realistic to the times. I have known many MADMEN in my life, & none even come close to the Don Draper character. I grew up with the top illustrators of the 60's , 70's & 80's. I also knew ad execs from BBDO, etc. My best friend's father created the PILLSBURY DOUGH BOY.
They were nothing like the depicted creative people in this show. Mr. Weiner needs to do some more extensive research for his show. They were all not DRUNKS. They were creative, serious & talented individuals, yes, mostly men. Some are still alive today.
I am sickened that my own father's profession has been poisoned by this television show, when he was one of the pioneers of advertising. Illustration was a huge part of the ad business during this time & it has been ignored in this show. The creative people are depicted as inept and irresponsible. This is an insult to the talented artists of the day.

Some of the best American artists in our history were illustrators, like Maxfield Parrish, Norman Rockwell, etc.
The depiction of the creative side of this business is pathetic and unrealistic. These men were serious, talented and family oriented. They were the backbone of the advertising business, yet they get no credit.
It is sad to me their story is being ignored.
Go back & look in the Society of Illustrators, and Famous American Illustrators. It's all there & I think they were amazing.
Their story is not all about alcoholism and narcissism. It's about talent and ability.
Look at some magazines from that era, nothing but illustrations. There were people who painted those pictures every day. They were responsible,and talented people, people with children. The children grew up to be adults, responsible & intelligent adults.
I am saddened to see television profiting from the life I grew up with & it's not even true.

Warning! Warning! Entering Lost Weekend Territory!

I'm sure everyone and their brother noticed that we've literally entered "Lost Weekend" territory with Don. It was not only powerful to see him wake up with a whole other girl, a whole day gone, but "literary" in that it was clearly a tip of the hat to the famous book and movie "Lost Weekend" by Charles R. Jackson (published in 1944, made into a movie with Ray Milan in 1945).

And very like the alcoholic in that book, Don is starting to steal (ideas) and pawn things, as well as lose time and forget what he's said or done. Don's isn't only getting himself more and more into trouble in every aspect of his life, but he's in serious physical and mental danger.

Pretty scary.

Ep6: So much, where do we start?

Holy crap, where do you begin?

First, is the spherical cigarette dispenser thing Allison threw at Don back on the coffee table? I think so.

Interesting Don and Peggy dynamic. In the beginning, Don is actually chummy with her in turning down someone. But then challenging later on is their interaction. It's a hallmark of their relationship; both honey and vinegar. Yet in the end it works.

Roger talking about comedy duo relationships. Then you have he and Don in apparently their first meeting ever, kinda both doing a comedy routine for us the viewer. The way they dialogue back and forth with the furs looked like an homage to old school comedy duos. And they do it immediately after, when we get back to the present, in their drinking.

The flashback with Roger and Joan, the next edit is Roger in present calling in Caroline to say he has, "another work story."

At the ceremony after Duck being old-Duck, "Gentlemen let's pace ourselves" is the announcement, and Roger takes a long pull from his drink.

The creepy guy to Peggy mentioned something about hunting, similar to the Pete dialogue she had back in the day...

SO, we find out in the flashback Don did the whole gift idea in trying to get a job with Roger. Roger didn't like it. Remember when CocaCola did that regarding Betty, and Don didn't like it?

At the end when Pete was talking to Cosgrove, taking charge, I was disappointed to not see Pete's rifle in the background, like we used to see whenever Pete had a changing moment.

The random and accidental waitress after all that? Anyone who has ever lived will vote to submit this one for the Emmys, if not 2 episodes ago.

Later, Don pulling the old and patented Cock Block by stealing Dr. Faye from some guy. Classic. Bravo Mr. Draper.

But to end on a Peggy moment, is Peggy is wearing slingbacks in one shot?

Don Draper can't lose!

A CLEO a extemporaneous LIFE cereal pitch and a new romantic challenge we all new was coming. Is he spinning in or out of control? Thoughts?

The Return of Ken Cosgrove! Rick Rick...You Were Right!

Let me be the first to say it, as I was skeptical...but Rick Rick, you were right. You've been predicting from episode one that Ken would be back, and low-and-behold...he is!

However, he has not, as many supposed supplanted Pete. Pete is a full partner even if his name isn't included in the company title. And Ken, as Pete made it clear, will be working under him. Not vice versa. Thoughts?

Emmy and CLEO

SCDR can't lose! Congratulations on winning and Emmy and a "CLEO" all on the same night!! Love this show!

Everything Emmys!

Let's talk about everything Emmy related here so we can keep the main thread clear for Ep. 6 chat. Red carpet starts soon!!!

NORA PARADISO SINGS "SHADAROBA" To All Maddicts

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiQbUNHPLgw
I dedicate this to all the Maddicts for their great support of Mad Men!!
SCDPfan,60'schild,Zerelda,Ashley Shaw,Drew Pisarra,Dry Manhattan, wryter1,C.Carroll Adams PhD,Bluegirl, Drink & Smoke,Madtini,MadMenSuze,Happy Birthday Milly, rozsie,Semper fi,chriscr,Joanne,Stephanie Jo..is back,MadisonAvenueWoman, Marnie,IKD711,JMac9,MadisonAvenue432,wasthere,Auburn Annie,Mad Man4ever,Monty, (and I'll continue in the comments section)

Boards used to be relevant and fun

I am not here that much anymore because of the artery-clogging chat on the main thread, and the sheer number of threads on the site. I know I'll get blasted for this (many people just love to do this on these things, it seems, and some hunt posts down and then come on with both barrels blazing), but I remember when the main thread was one of the big attractions here.

Now, the main thread is filled up before the episode is even shown in TV! Trouble is, it's filled up with people wishing others "Happy Birthday," asking irrelevant questions that have nothing at all to do with Mad Men, posting spoiler links (and then telling us it's a spoiler), posting links to unrelated items, writing long drawn-out parodies about the show (most of which contain questionable material), chatting back and forth about virtually nothing, and so forth. The main thread is literally crammed with chat, most of which has little or nothing to do with the show. The same things are discussed post after post. And, the idea that you can come here and just scroll by these offending posts is lame, because you would have to read the post in order to discover if it's relevant or not. Besides, with the amount you need to scroll by, your mouse would be worn to a frazzel! Who's going to read the aimless chat of 2800 postings or whatever are usually on the main thread these days, only to discover it is indeed, aimless chat? I find about 100 posts or so that have merit and the rest are just aimless.

Also, many of the other threads are on the same subject. And some appear two and three times.

This used to be relevant and fun, at least to me. Now it's become something of a chore to wade into the main thread especially, and find people talking about the Emmy's their birthdays, wishing others "Happy Birthday," their job interviews, the laundry detergent their mothers used to use and posts that just say "I agree," or "I am laughing, ha, ha." I think this board no longer fulfills what it originally intended to. At least for me.

EMMY predictions for tonight anyone?

I sure hope MM scores big. What are your predictions?

whoa peggy....

at a pre-emmy party, it looks like elisabeth moss took a bit of advice offered to her character on the show: "You're in the city now; it wouldn't be a sin for us to see you legs. And if you pull your waist in a little bit, you might look like a woman."

and she has NEVER looked better!

http://www.redcarpet-fashionawards.com/2010/08/29/2010-entertainment-weekly-and-women-in-film-pre-emmy-party-elisabeth-moss-in-herve-leger-by-max-azria/

Maddicts alternate music selections for S4

It's Sunday, let's start a list while we wait for tonight's episode.

Here are a few ideas to start:

Peggy riding the Honda motorcycle in a circle - 'I Get Around' Beach Boys

The kitchen scene with Dr. Faye Miller and Don - 'Anticipation' Carly Simon

The letter that Allison's seen typing after receiving her Christmas bonus - 'Tell It Like It Is' Aaron Neville

Don almost getting hit by Allison's paperweight toss - 'Hit My With Your Best Shot' Pat Benatar

Don and Betty's showdown about the house - 'The Grand Tour' Aaron Neville

Season 4 Promo music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i3P4hLxwik&feature=player_embedded

Here's the song. I'm a self descriped audofile and I have looked everywhere for it! If no one knows, could I have the email to someone that works for AMC that would know? Thanks

Lane Pryce - eyeglasses frames

Does anyone know the make and model of the eyeglasses frames used by Lane Pryce?
Thanks

Mad Men

When is Betty and her new husband going to move and get a house of their own. How can that man continue to live in another man's house.

Draper residence exterior paint color

Does anyone know the exterior color of the Draper house?

Article on Changes to Advertising Industry Since Mad Men

I thought some of you might enjoy reading this article posted in the Vancouver Sun:

Its a mad, mad, Mad Men world
http://www.vancouversun.com/world/3455327/story.html

Maddicts Awards - Emmy categories for MM S4

The Emmy's don't do MM justice. Here's a list of categories and nominees for MM S4:

Best first kiss: Bethany/Don, Peggy/new guy in closet

best f*ck you substitute: 'Sayonara', 'I'm having a child', 'I want him dead!'

Best new hairdo: Peggy, Sally

Best meal: Benihana, Joan's Luau, Chicken kiev, Sally/Bobby's tv dinners

Best bad teeth: Megan, Lane

Best updo: Trudy, Bethan, Allison, Megan, Joan

Best new blonde: Stephanbie, Dr. Faye, Bethany, David McCallen

Best use of a sweater: Joan, Betty, Don, Henry

Best accent: Miss B. Lane, Honda execs

Best bad coupling: Peggy/mark, Don/Allison

Best costume: Santa suit, Bear

Best non-PC comment: retards, mongoloid, Jap crap

Best old biddie: Pauline, Miss B

Best therapist: Joan, Dr. Edna, Dr. Faye, Candace, Stphanie, Anna

Best use of alliteration: 'Christ on a cracker', Jesus, Mary and Joseph'

Best Pick-up Line: 'Breast or thigh', 'You smell so good'

Best slap scene: Don/Candace, Betty/Sally

Betty, Henry, Don and the future

I don't think they'll last.

If you look at last year with Joan, with her gone most of the season you had to know she'd be back with the gang, or else they'd have to write her out of the show. My feeling is the same thing with Betty.

She's too intrinsic to be now a fringe character. I thought the first two seasons had an underlying tryptic of Don, Betty and Peggy. (but I think it's unfortunate they seem to have gotten away from that). So you can't have Betty just peppered in now and then like Joan was last year. So Betty has to return to a more prominent role.

What I think will happen is that Henry will tire of her, it'll end, and Betty in desperation or maybe her own bout of loneliness like Don seems to be in now, will let Don come back home. And that's how Betty comes back into the show.

Otherwise they would have to just write her out. You can't have a Mad Men episode centering on Betty with very little Don. The show is about Don. It has an ensemble cast, but it's not an ensemble show like Cheers, Friends, etc.

Betty is too important to remain on the fringe all season so they have to have her come back to prominence somehow, so I think they'll both be back in cohabitation. And it will be absolute hell.

If you look and Don and Henry, on the surface they're both basically cut from the same cloth. They're both Alpha males, about power and are successful etc.

That's the only type Betty has an ability to be with.

That's why I think after some down time, Betty will allow Don to come back. At some point they'll probably have drunken accident sex. Betty is still Betty, if Henry doesn't last she'll go crawling back to Don if there's nothing immediately available after Henry.

She'll go crawling back to him in the form of allowing him to come crawling back.

Betty, Henry, Don and the future

I don't think they'll last.

If you look at last year with Joan, with her gone most of the season you had to know she'd be back with the gang, or else they'd have to write her out of the show. My feeling is the same thing with Betty.

She's too intrinsic to be now a fringe character. I thought the first two seasons had an underlying tryptic of Don, Betty and Peggy. (but I think it's unfortunate they seem to have gotten away from that). So you can't have Betty just peppered in now and then like Joan was last year. So Betty has to return to a more prominent role.

What I think will happen is that Henry will tire of her, it'll end, and Betty in desperation or maybe her own bout of loneliness like Don seems to be in now, will let Don come back home. And that's how Betty comes back into the show.

Otherwise they would have to just write her out. You can't have a Mad Men episode centering on Betty with very little Don. The show is about Don. It has an ensemble cast, but it's not an ensemble show like Cheers, Friends, etc.

Betty is too important to remain on the fringe all season so they have to have her come back to prominence somehow, so I think they'll both be back in cohabitation. And it will be absolute hell.

If you look and Don and Henry, on the surface they're both basically cut from the same cloth. They're both Alpha males, about power and are successful etc.

That's the only type Betty has an ability to be with.

That's why I think after some down time, Betty will allow Don to come back. At some point they'll probably have drunken accident sex. Betty is still Betty, if Henry doesn't last she'll go crawling back to Don if there's nothing immediately available after Henry.

She'll go crawling back to him in the form of allowing him to come crawling back.

when did sweater vests go out of style?

i noticed that of all the characters, Roger, Lane and Duck don the sweater vest most frequently. I didn't notice it very much in seasons 1-3, but the vest suddenly appears out of place in the new, more modern looking offices. i know sweater vests have since come back into style as of the mid-2000s, but i would think that they faded out as the 60s continued. anybody know when? will we see roger abandon his sweater vest? and when is don going to stop wearing that hat!

Does anyone know...

Whether the steakhouse in last weeks episode, Jim Downeys really existed, or was it Jack Dempseys?

How to Compete with Don Draper

The article was too long to copy...Enjoy!

http://www.match.com/magazine/article.aspx?&TrackingID=525061&BannerID=647428TrackingID=525061&BannerID=653997&articleid=11455

An article I found today, 8-27-2010

How to compete with Don Draper
By Diane Mapes
He's smolderingly handsome, insanely confident and doesn't really exist. But Don Draper of AMC's drama Mad Men fame is still stealing hearts -- not to mention Sunday nights -- from millions of women, nationwide.

Perhaps your girlfriend is one of them and you'd like to even the playing field. Read on for tips on how you can take a page from this dashing dreamboat's playbook.

The Don Draper mystique
"Don Draper -- usually pronounced as one word -- is a source of breathless adoration for my girlfriend," says Lincoln, a 42-year-old Boston lawyer who says his girlfriend won't allow any talking during the show.

What's the secret to his success?

"He has that bad boy image and that completely appeals to women," says Lincoln. "But he also has the three kids and the picket fence. It's a deadly combination."

Leading-man looks and over-the-top confidence are also on his side, says Paul Isakson, a single 30-something advertising guru from Minneapolis, MN, who, as a lark, began "tweeting" as Draper on the popular microblogging site Twitter. But the character has one other thing going for him: he keeps his mouth shut.

"He's an observer," says Isakson, who received hundreds of flirtatious messages from smitten women while posting as the character. "He stays on the outside. He's curious about human nature but wants to be removed and not reveal anything about himself. He's very guarded with his personal information."
That brooding silence is something any man can use to his advantage according to die-hard Mad Men fan Jennifer Worick, author of The Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook: Dating & Sex. "In this era of transparency and full disclosure, it's nice to have someone just shut up," says Worick. "Silence can be magical, and when someone doesn't speak, you can make up your own fantasy of what that person is really like instead of having it shattered when you hear about past relationships or experiences blacking out after drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon. Mystery is sexy, and frankly, it's like catnip to me."

The 60s aesthetic
"My girlfriend is a Mad Men madwoman," says Eugene, a 26-year-old software engineer from Manhattan. "The show combines her love of all things old-fashioned with -- so she tells me -- ruggedly handsome men dressed in fine-tailored suits."

So how can modern guys compete with Don Draper's retro-sexual appeal?

"Instead of trying to compete, I'd just roll with it," says Isakson. "Find out why she's caught up in Mad Men. Is it the era, the characters, the clothes? Have a good conversation about the show the next time you watch it together. Find out what she likes about it and then play off of that."

If your girlfriend's into the era and the clothes, host a Mad Men viewing party where everybody dresses up as their favorite character, suggests Isakson. Or learn how to make cocktails -- a martini for her, an old-fashioned for you -- and serve them up while watching the show together.

Incorporating a few 60s touches into your wardrobe is another way to show you're paying attention to what she likes. "Smart guys will see what turns their gal on about the show and try it on for size," says Worick. "Come home in a cool hat, don't say a word, and take her into the bedroom. That'll put Don Draper out of her head forever. Or at least until Sunday night."

Eugene, whose girlfriend is "militant" about watching the show ("She has to turn it on; she has to hold the remote") says he's definitely heard suggestions about adopting a Mad Men aesthetic. "She sometimes drops hints: 'You'd look great in a skinny tie' -- but it hasn't reached the point where I've bought a whole new wardrobe," he says.

Eugene has folded a few retro bits into his look, though. "I've recently gotten into the art of wet shaving using an old-style safety razor and shaving brush," he says. "I think she gets a kick out of watching me shave this way. I'm also looking into incorporating suspenders into my formal wear."

The good, the bad, the ugly...
Of course, Draper's character is not perfect. In fact, he has one huge gaping flaw: his well-documented faithlessness. "Don cheats on his wife all the time, even when he's trying not to," says Isakson. "He's a fantastic character, but would he make a good husband or boyfriend? Obviously not." Eugene, who regularly watches with his girlfriend, says pointing out Draper's rampant infidelity is his secret weapon. "I'll go out of my way to point out his sleazy cheating ways during an episode," he says. "I'll tell her, 'I can't believe this guy would treat his pregnant wife this way. What a dirt bag!'"

Worick says there are definitely lessons to learn when it comes to the brilliant-but-tortured Madison Avenue executive. "Basically, Don Draper is James Bond without the gun or accent," she says. "Borrow his quiet confidence, his sleek style, his swagger, and the way he always lets a woman know she's a woman by walking on the curbside or putting his hand on the small of her back. But leave the deception, the infidelity, and, quite frankly, the smoking in the 60s where it belongs. It looks cool on screen but getting cigarette smoke out of your clothes is a real pain."

Fantasy fulfillment
Watching the show together and then indulging in a bit of role-playing is another way to have fun with the Mad Men fantasy, say experts. But a word of caution: don't go too far in the fantasy-fulfillment department. "Recently, I was driving to meet my girlfriend and noticed someone was filming a movie in her neighborhood," says Lincoln. "So I said, 'Let's go see what's going on.'" The two of them wandered down the block and immediately recognized Jon Hamm, the actor who plays Draper on Mad Men. Undaunted by stardom and excited to make his girlfriend's dream come true, Lincoln led his girlfriend over to the actor and made introductions. "She immediately went into full-blown schoolgirl mode," he says. "She told him how much she loved the show, about her crush on both him and January Jones, and then she apologized for her post-workout attire and hair." Ever the devoted boyfriend, Lincoln snapped a picture of the two of them with his iPhone, after which he was "barely acknowledged by either one."

Since then, she's been "cooing" about Don Draper and the show even more, says Lincoln. "Draper stole my girlfriend -- in person! -- and I set it up. Now she's even worse."

Diane Mapes is a freelance writer based in Seattle and the author of How to Date in a Post-Dating World. She can be reached via her Web site, dianemapes.net.

SCDP are NOT broke or struggling - they are very, very rich!

With 3 million dollar accounts it seems to me that the constant references to SCDP as "struggling financially" and tightening of belts to keep the firm going are unrealistic. On a recent This Week In Mad Men vodcast, the effect of adding another account to that of the 71%Lucky Strike account is discussed and they arrive at a yearly income of 345 million dollars or so, after they adjust for inflation. Even if this is out by a factor of ten, they are NOT struggling.

Discuss :)

Dark Shadows Redux

Reflecting on the scene of Betty sitting in Don's old den and looking so comfortable at his desk while she informs him that everything wrong with their daughter is all his fault, I suddenly pictured a different scenario.

Don's old den....excuse me, Henry's new den....Betty enters smiling....ah, she is queen of the house and everything and everybody in it.....no dark secrets lurking here. She loving moves Henry's ugly sweater from the chair behind the desk and sits down. She reaches for the phone book and starts looking for a pen....hmmm, no pen.....she starts pulling open drawers.....soft music playing suddenly starts building to a dramatic crescendo as she pulls at the side drawer and.......IT WON'T OPEN!!!! Yes, the drawer is locked......"What the @#$%!?" says Betty....she drops back against the chair staring at the drawer in horror.....she is quite simply aghast, appalled and astounded....and she has yet to even see the contents....."*$#^&!" she mutters, "this can't be good." Her mind is suddenly filled with swirling thoughts on what Henry could possibly be hiding in this drawer....her hand reaches for the letter opener and she starts trying to pry open the drawer....doesn't work....Carla appears at the door...."Anything I can get for you Mrs. Dra...I mean Mrs. Francis?" "Yes," says Betty breathlessly, "my husband's tool box!" "Oh, well, Mr. Draper took his with him....I don't think Mr. Francis has a tool box, and he specifically told me not to let you have any knives in here, as you have a history of snooping, so I am afraid I will have to take that letter opener away. Hand it over, Mrs. Dra...I mean Francis. I am going to bring you a nice cup of tea to calm you down....you will feel like taking a nap afterwards on that ugly fainting couch that is a real bitch to clean around, and then you will be nice and fresh and pretty when Mr. Francis comes home for dinner, won't you? Step away from the desk now, Mrs. Dra...I mean Mrs. Francis.....the master won't like it if he finds out you've been snooping.....no, he wouldn't like that at all." Carla leaves with a somber backward look over her shoulder at Betty standing stunned in the middle of the room. Betty looks down at her hands.....she seems to have lost all feeling in them.....Sally passes the door and looks in at her mother.....as their eyes meet, Betty is filled with a dark foreboding.....Sally smiles and walks away.

MM Trailers

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/how-do-you-keep-an-idiot-in-suspense-television-trailers-in-the-mad-men-style/?ref=arts

Where Is the World's Fair?

It's almost over :) !

There could have been a great storyline with Robert Moses, no, just as well as Conrad Hilton. CGI... It's a Small World After All... Belgian Waffles...

Why doesn't Sally or Bobby have Magic Rocks that "grow when you put them in water?" I got two whole sets at the souvenir concession on the way back to the bus.

music

I find the music at the end of each episode very appropriate and thought provoking. Does anyone know if there is an account of these fragments of music?

My surrealistic "Mad Men" comedy short

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJrrxJlbPPk

Here's my own imagined plunge into the world of MAD MEN after winning the Casting Call contest. If you like it, please vote for me at www.bit.ly/VoteForAdam !

Thanks folks!

Season 4/Episode 6 Opening Scene Predictions

The very opening scene including characters & location.

Whole show reminds me of growing up

"Mad Men" the whole show recall my growing up in those times.Our house in suburburbia,Dad's business trips,his being totally stressed nearly always until a fifth of scotch got popped or some beers got passed out.The businessman's helper then was a yellow Valium.And there were the requisite odd hour phone call to either bail someone out,that is if they even took you in.Several instances, they'd let ya go,and follow you home.Really!! Or it would be a drunk "friend: calling cuz she was lonely....Yeah,Madmen was real life for many out there.Hence,it's popularity

Time'sList

Mad Men, the popular show about advertising executives in the 1960s, returns to television this weekend. TIME takes a look at the things we miss about that swinging decade
Full ListNostalgia A-Go-Go
•Enjoyable Air Travel
•Curvy Women
•Well-Dressed Men
•Real Cocktails
•Drinks at Work
•Beatniks
•Records
•Cars with Fins
•Casserole
•Struggles and Causes
.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2005928,00.html#ixzz0xkfJRsM7
WHAT DO YOU MISS?

Season 4 Episode 5 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 5, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword."

Can Anyone Help Sally?

MadMenSuze posted some insightful thoughts on how Sally has been treated since her parents' marriage began disintegrating. I was curious to see if I could imagine the entire picture through the eyes of the child. Here's how that looks to me:

Sally is caught smoking during the time that Don is inexplicably gone. Betty grabs her by her hair, pulls her out of the bathroom and down the hall, jerks open the closet door and shoves her inside. She then stands outside the door and refuses to answer Sally's questions about her dad's whereabouts.

Betty brags to Don that she "got it out of her" about Sally breaking his suitcase. Sally is told she must pay for the repair out of an allowance she doesn't even receive. We wonder how the truth was extracted.

When Gene dies, Betty performs her narcissist act, and Sally is left on the doorstep-- the picture of an abandoned baby. No one comforts her, though her heart is breaking. When she finally reacts, it is because the adult laughter and the ugly news she is watching have combined to push her past her limits. She feels powerless and she is angry. But her outburst is met with a wall of repression from her mother. She is told to "stop it" and "go to bed". Dismissed but unabashed, Sally confronts the group with the flat truth about death and a complete censoring of their lack of decorum. No one moves to comfort her, to explain death or share a belief in the afterlife. We see no scene depicting any discussion after this. We later learn that the children did not attend Gene's funeral.

We learn from Sally's teacher that she is acting out in school and picking on another student who is supposedly heavy. When Suzanne learns that Sally has recently lost her grandfather, she is concerned that no one has realized the child's need for closure. She's right.

When Sally is experiencing sleeplessness and night terrors, her mother once again makes it all about HER, insisting that Sally is jealous of precious Baby Gene. Betty makes a clumsy attempt to have Gene bribe Sally with a Barbie doll. When Sally associates the doll with her fear of Grandpa's ghost, she tries to rid herself of it by tossing the doll from the window, only to be further terrorized by it when Don unwittingly replaces it in her room. Don tries to comfort the hysterical child and to explain her fear to his wife. Betty is disgusted, and completely invalidating of Sally's feelings.

The children are assembled to receive a carefully worded announcement by Betty of her impending divorce from their father. Sally's questions go largely unanswered. Betty turns away at one point but remains dry-eyed. Don is powerless to explain his broken promise to his daughter.

We don't see the children's first meeting with Henry Francis. When we do see Sally with her "new" dad and his family, she is scolded for telling the truth, then forced to swallow a sweet potato in front of a table full of strangers when she can't eat a bite due to nerves, grief, disgust or the like. Her mother who perpetrates this humiliation proceeds to drag the child away from the table when she gags, and pinches her when out of view of the company, if not its earshot. When Sally attempts to contact Don by telephone, her needs are once again disregarded by Betty, who threatens Sally with unspecified repercussions.

When we next encounter the new family, Sally is lagging behind at the Christmas tree lot, where she shares a bit of her new reality with Glen, who immediately recognizes her reluctance to bond with Henry. He fills Sally's mind with confusing prophesies and probably some rather disturbing graphic detail about adult relations. Sally is misinformed when she seeks to clarify this new knowledge. She does NOT go and ask her mother. We also see no "getting to know you" talks between Henry and Sally, no outings or private moments of understanding. Nothing. Conspicuous by its absence.

Meanwhile, Don is threatened by his new company's unsteady footing, and is unresponsive to Sally. When the children spend time with him, they watch TV while he takes care of business. We see, nor do we hear of other activities with Dad and so must assume they're aren't any.

When Sally expresses her discomfort with her father going out on a date, she is told AGAIN that her feelings don't count. Desperate for some attention, Sally tries to cut her own hair, but makes a mess of it and is met with outrage, first by the babysitter, then her father and of course, Mommy, who slaps her hard, takes away privileges and sends her to her room, all the while bad-mouthing her to her husband and Don. All because tomorrow is picture day. Sally's feelings are quickly trampled upon in the ensuing battle of the exes.

The girl is allowed to go to the slumber party because Henry is busy putting distance between her and Betty for his own sake. When her friend falls asleep and leaves her alone in the darkened den of this strange house, Sally subconsciously tries to comfort herself by masturbating. She is discovered and humiliated verbally by the friend's mother, who is horrified at this wanton behavior. Sally is bundled off home, where the woman insists on reporting the horror the horror to Betty, who is equally horrified, if only for her own reputation's sake. In her fury at her own inability to control the situation, Betty proceeds to pounce on Sally, squeezing her chin painfully as she hisses the "rules" about this disgusting habit into her daughter's face. (We know this to be the limit in utter hypocrisy, having witnessed Mommy pleasuring herself on more than one occasion.) When Sally weakly tries to deny any wrongdoing, Betty threatens to cut off her fingers for being a liar.

Convinced that Sally must see a therapist, Betty makes the arrangements but we see no discussion about it with her little girl. Carla takes Sally to her first appointment. We are left wondering if anyone can please minister to this poor child's needs?

Advertising - A Necessary Evil....I Guess

I know this is a show about advertising, and I know AMC has to have ads on this Forum.....however, those little boxes that pop up in the comments section have become even more annoying because now they sometimes won't go away, and the comments aren't being shown. It is frequently impossible to post a comment or read the comments of others. Did I say annoying....let us move on to frustrating and maddening....soon to be followed by infuriating and enraging. Please AMC, you rejiggered this Forum quite pleasingly in other ways, can't you remove those ads or at least make them disappear promptly?

AMC/Verizon, Please Show A Little Intelligence About Your Ads

So before Season 4 started, I was catching up by watching Season 3 on demand. During commercial breaks they were airing previews for Season 4 that reveal: 1. Don leaves to start a new agency, 2. Betty gets remarried, and another one I can't think of. Just wanted to thank you for ruining Season 3 for me. How about next time, if you can't keep yourself from revealing spoilers... at least don't air them while previous Episodes are playing. How stupid is this?

Good Things Betty Has Done

Speaking of "good works", how does Mrs. Francis compare with her former husband? Is her list longer or shorter than Don's?

Good Things Don Has Done

And no, I don't mean that!

Seriously, I want to see how he's doing as far as "good works" in his life so far. Please contribute!

AMC or HBO for MadMen

I guess most of the Maddicts here are familiar with the fact that HBO turned down MadMen. While I have loved many HBO shows, I am kind of glad that it wound up on AMC. While there is more freedom of language and sexual expliciteness on HBO, I kind of like the fact that MadMen has to stay within the rules. Kind of like a throwback to the sixties television shows, many here grew up watching. I am just curious how others here feel about it.

I Can't Believe That Betty Has That Chaise Lounge

That Victorian crap was put out for the junkman, not brought into your house.

Did Betty Threaten To Murder Don?

After Don brought Sally home and then left did Betty say, "i want him dead" and did Henry agree with this? I thought I may have misheard this.

Betty and the Dollhouse

From the Wikipedia article on the famous play A Doll's House:

"A Doll's House (Norwegian: Et dukkehjem) is an 1879 play by Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen. Written one year after The Pillars of Society, the play was the first of Ibsen's to create a sensation and is now perhaps his most famous play, and required reading in many secondary schools and universities. The play was controversial when first published, as it is sharply critical of 19th century marriage norms. It follows the formula of well-made play up until the final act, when it breaks convention by ending with a discussion, not an unravelling. It is often called the first true feminist play.
[...]
By now [the end of the play] Nora has realized that her husband Torvald is not the man she thought he was, and that her whole existence has been a lie. Her fantasy of love is just that--a fantasy. Torvald's love is highly conditional. She has been treated like a plaything, first by her father and then by her husband. She decides that she must leave to find out who she is and what to make of her life. Torvald insists she must fulfill her duty as a wife and mother, but Nora believes she also has duties to herself. From Torvald's reaction to Krogstad's letters, Nora sees that she and Torvald are strangers to each other. When Torvald asks if there is still any chance for them to rebuild their marriage, she replies that it would take "the greatest miracle of all": they would have to change so much that their life together would become a real marriage."

My advice to the characters

Don- Sleep with Phoebe so their won't be akward tension between you two,after all you did give her a tough scolding and you won't have to pay her for babysitting with money
Pete-try to put Sterling in a nursing home,he does look old enough with the gray hair and he will be out of yours soon enough if you do
Joey-try saying the sarcastic comments to Don's face like he did to you sunday night
Sterling-offer Joan a raise for a one night stand that should stop you from thinking of you're wife,you know it works
Betty-you should join Sally in therapy, you need it
Carla-quit!

shoe polishing

A little while ago someone asked why Don polishes his own shoes when he could easily have had it done in the city. I polish my own shoes, not everyday, but before a special occasion: an interview, a big date, etc. I like going through the ritual. It give you time to think, or even meditate if you will. A time of quiet before the storm.

The $3,000

Apologies if this has been asked before. Was/is it common practice for companies to advance money to potential advertising firms to create presentations as was shown in the last Mad Men episode when Honda did so with SCDP and the two other firms?

I Wonder

What was Phoebe's first thought when Don Draper called and asked if she was free for that Saturday night? Bet she didn't expect to be asked to babysit. If he had asked Miss Blankenship to babysit, would Sally have cut her hair....I'm thinking she would have broken into Dad's liquor cabinet instead.

A cantaloupe, Pete? Really? Did you notice how swiftly the Japanese translator guy exchanged his gift of Johnny Walker for the cantaloupe presented to the head man?

Were Sally and Bobby's frozen TV dinners as awful after cooking as I remember them to be.....no wonder Sally was mad....."Dad gets to go to a restaurant and we get this stuff? It's not fair! I am so going to cut my hair!"

I agree with Don, that Ten Chaough is truly annoying, and so is the way he spells his last name. He even had a Betty clone for a wife, for Pete's sake.

Speaking of Betty, yes, she is a gorgeous woman, but those plaid pants still looked awful on her.....the only thing worse was that hideous sweater Henry was wearing, which looked even worse when Don showed up in his smokin' red shirt and fedora.....that's really why Betty was so mad.....Don and Henry in the same room and once again she must face the fact that she chose Henry....yes, it would make any woman furious.

Another reason she is really, really mad at Don.....he refused to take the fainting couch in the divorce settlement.....hey, Betty, wouldn't laying on the couch with Henry be even cosier if there was a nice fire in the fireplace? Too bad there seems to be something ENORMOUS sitting on the hearth.

Dr. Faye has to wash the dishes after her focus group meets? What, Megan was busy cleaning up a mess somewhere?

The sake was good, hmmmm? Hey, I have tasted sake, and the word good is not what first springs to mind....good is for Grasshoppers and Brandy Alexanders.....sake? Not so much.

Pete and Peggy bonding over the little drinking bird toy....aw, so cute....if only there were some little kid there to enjoy it with them.....oh, yeah, Joey was there.

Speaking of Joey, I adore him, and yet I have to wonder just what he would have done if those two fellas from CGC had decided to ignore his runty little self and walk into that studio.

Peggy on the Honda.....more fun than the Relaxicisor, Peg?

Finally, I find myself wondering whether little Sally ever did get those riding lessons....if not, Betty should sign her up.....would probably solve the whole problem.....we know Betty always seemed to enjoy galloping along....fresh air and exercise beats hanging out in the laundry room, and every little girl loves horses.

I'm really bad at math

Okay, but in about the third epi of season I (1960) Sally has her 6th birthday. Then at some later point, Betty tells her shrink that she has been married 10 years and little Sally was already on the way a bit before the wedding. Later (I think it was at the dinner where Betty meets Mrs.Lane Pryce) She is asked how long she has been married and she slips and says 10 years. Don instantly corrects it to eleven. Now we know that in Season 4 Baby Gene is one and half, but Don tells Dr. Faye that Sally is ten. I've run out of fingers to count on. Or maybe Don doesn'tt know how old Sally is?

Don and Betty: Old habits die hard

In the latest episode (and one of the best ever!), we saw some evidence to suggest that it may not be over between Don and Betty. Now, before I go on, I must say that I am not one who thinks they will get back together. That being said, there were several moments in the episode that showed that they both clearly still care for one another.
First, we had Betty's tantrum after Don left. He obviously still gets to her. She made a comment about his 'whores', and she sounded pretty bitter about it for someone who has supposedly moved on. She even said she wanted him dead. I can understand she's upset that her child cut her hair under his watch, but isn't her reaction a little overkill? There's more to her reaction than just being angry that her child cut her hair while he was out. She seems to be upset that he's going out on dates.
She made a comment to him at some point about, "I don't want to know about your life." She doesn't want to know because it hurts her to know that he is out there dating and being with other women, even though she herself has remarried.
Then we have Don still referring to Betty as "Betts" when she slaps Sally. It was a little odd to hear him refer to her as the nickname he had for her when they were together,especially with Henry standing right there. Of course, we could chalk it up to habit - but if you're upset with your ex, especially considering their less than amicable relationship, would you call them by the pet name you had for them while you were married?
Granted, I don' know what it's like to be divorced, so this is all speculation, but to me, their behavior shows that they still care about each other, more than either of them wants to.
I'd love to hear everyone's two-cents...

Grandpa Gene

I keep seeing everyone talking about grandpa gene being a molester. I doubt it, mainly because the character is based on Matt Weiner's own grandfather. Including his death. I watched him talk about it in a interview he did last nov. Here's my blog post about it.
http://elisesramblings.blogspot.com/2009/11/matt-weiner-interview-tonight.html?showComment=1269862561902
Also all these supposed hints at it don't make any sense to me. Kids masturbate. I use to teach preschool and lots of the kids did. It does not mean they have been molested. Matt Weiner has three kids, I 'm sure he is well aware of it.
Also I don't thin Weiner goes for that kind of thing, in general. He generally goes with the normal, S&M protitute not withstanding.

Mad Men Auction Over

Here are the items that went for over $ 2,000 :

Mad Men Walk-On Role (Season 5) $32,600.00
Chair - Don's Office $9,100.00
Sofa - Don's Office $3,500.00
Bar from Roger's Office $3,250.00
Coffee Table - Roger Office $3,050.00
Painting - Conference Room $2,755.99
Painting - Conference Room $2,651.99
Sofa - Roger's Office $2,400.00
Desk from Don's Office $2,205.00
Sofa - Outside Conference Room $2,040.00
Credenza from Don's Office $2,025.00
Betty Draper Dress $2,025.00

OK, who paid almost $33,000 for a walk-on role?

Mad Men Wannabe Needs You

Check out my Draper-esque still life entitled "Suits, Secrets Scotch & Smirks" I think you'll dig it...oh and give me a vote! Thanks!

http://madmencastingcall.amctv.com/browse/detail/HG7UBB

My "Mad Men" comedic video short

Hi all! Thought this was a great place to share my short video which I created to promote my bid to win the "Casting Call" contest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcASMNZoGqM

If you like it please vote for me at:

http://bit.ly/voteforadam

Thanks and hope you enjoy it!

Sally Draper Needs To Get Herself A Good Agent

It's common knowledge that most famous female movie stars, from the very beginning, had big heads and big features, literally speaking. Sally has both in spades. She's still young however, and we know young actors nowadays do not necessarily have great outcomes. If she is able to overcome this, she could become the 21st century Elizabeth Taylor.

What do you think?

Grandpa Gene- 2 Monty Lemonade Pie

Geez Louise!! (Monty) I'm not trying to be a troublemaker nor (Lemonade Pie) am I trying to be sensationalist. A huge skeleton in Betty's closet is being alluded to and it was just a lame theory that may have inspired more accurate theories to emerge in the thread. Sally has always been a bit unusual but masturbation at age 10 is not the same as masturbation at age 13 or 14. From my limited understanding children who stimulate themselves early raise a red flag amongst professionals that work with children that most likely they have been prematurely stimulated before. Please forgive my egregious smearing of the saintly Grandpa Gene character. Perhaps there is nothing sinister at play here other than a child prematurely dealing with being thrust into adult roles. It could also just be prologue as to why Sally ends up wielding a gun alongside Patty Hearst.

Maddict Convention ideas

I finally took the time to read through that thread and really enjoyed it. It makes me wish we could have a convention in NY with all the actors, etc. I used to do the PR for "A Christmas Story" House in Cleveland and once a year we'd get all the actors to Cleveland (minus "Ralphie") and do movie-related fun things, like shoot bb guns. Lordy, the things we could do at a Maddict convention! We could:
-drink
-smoke
-cheat
-throw chickens out the window
-wipe our hands on napkins
-ride circles on motorcycles
-build playhouses while drinking beer

What else?

You guys have blown a good thing

So I've got this Tivo that is filling up with unwatched episodes of Mad Men and my wife, who was never a fan really, is asking me why I haven't watched any more since the season opener and I'm wondering why too.
Then it hit me.
You guys had Don Draper hire a hooker in the first episode.
Don's always been a borderline character at best. Deserter. Impostor. Unfaithful husband. Drinks far too much. He makes James Bond look like a Puritan.
But hookers?
That's just sleazy.
People watch tv out of wish fulfillment. We wish we had friends and lives like what we see on television.
Why would I want to be like a guy that hires hookers?
Why would I want that man in my living room?
I don't.
You had a really, really good thing and you blew it.
Goodbye

Betty's New Therapist?

We all remember how Betty's first therapy sessions ended. The child psychologist seemed to understand Betty immediately and suggested periodic sessions with her.
Betty is so childish that she needs a child psychologist! The original doctor told Don that she was childish. Maybe Dr. Edna can make a breakthrough with Bets. For Sally's sake, let's hope so.

Mad Men in HD - Who Watches Standard Def?

"... Dish Network is finally going to air AMC in HD for the first time and has been going on and on on about how it's leading the way in HD channels, even though everyone else has been watching AMC in HD for years now. Mad Men and Breaking Bad in standard def? You may as well cover your TV in mud and watch it after staring straight into the sun for four hours. [Multichannel]" from http://www.tv.com/story/23749.html

Season 4 Episode 5 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 5, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword"? Post the exact quote below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

Dr. Lyle Evans

Since this episode was all about people talking to people, either directly or through translators, and making connections or not, I am wondering if perhaps the mysterious Dr. Evans was Roger Sterling's therapist. We know he has extremely strong feelings about the war......I am wondering if he may have been hospitalized under this doctor's care at some point after the war was over. It was while Pete was trying to assure Roger that the war was long over and there was no need to harbor ill will towards the Japanese that Roger made the reference. No one at the meeting seemed to recognize the name when Roger threw it at them, except for perhaps Bert Cooper. His soothing response of "Oh, Roger" or "Now, Roger" seemed like an attempt to calm Roger down. I also thought Joan seemed a tad to blank when she expressed no knowledge of this Dr. Evans. Those two people know Roger very well.....they would be the ones most likely to catch and understand this caustic mention of someone from his past.

I have always thought Roger a much deeper person than his funny one liners and boozing, womanizing persona would have one believe. His talk of friends lost in the war and promises made to dead comrades was not the lighthearted banter we usually get from Roger Sterling.

Is Joan the "Old Maid?"

I rewatched this week's episode last night. The character Joan seems to be hiding in plain sight--as an old maid--two years after Roger Sterling not only dumped her (they never made it clear, the extent of their involvement), but undercut her by countermanding her firing of Jane...and then marrying Jane. It got me to wondering if Joan's overly sexual persona isn't really full body armor that holds men at arm's length. She seems to be the real innocent, out of all the women, largely because everyone thinks otherwise.

I'm new to this board, so if this has been discussed before, please ignore.

Regarding Carla

The way Carla stood up when Dr. Edna called Sally into her office. It was a simple, dignified way of signaling to Sally that it was "Ok", and that she (Sally) should go on in. With this signal, Sally then stood up also, and went toward the Dr. I can just imagine the scene if Betty had been there instead of Carla. Betty would have remained seated and given Sally an admonishing, stern command and a scowling stare, like: "Well, GO ON."

I miss Carla and feel for her. I thought she looked a bit tired and "beaten down" in the brief glimpse we got of her in this episode. The divorce has been hard on her too; I think she liked Don. Henry is just a stranger to her, and from the way he issued a command to the help at his Mother's home at Christmas dinner (to come clean up after Sally threw up when Betty stuffed food down her throat) --I doubt he's very "aware" when it comes to "the help."

Dick Whitman Killed Don Draper

This is my first post on these forums. I've got something that's been buggin' me for awhile. In Season 1 we saw that Dick inadvertently killed Don (dropping a lighter I think). Did Don (Dick) ever express guilt over this? Do you think Don told Anna? Should Don tell Anna? How would Anna react if he told her? After all, Don tells Anna that he can tell her anything.

How Betty Approached "Touchy" Subject With Sally

Why does Betty talk to everyone but Sally about it?
http://www.lilsugar.com/Betty-Draper-Sends-Sally-Therapist-Touching-Herself-10482045

Grandpa Gene - Molestor?

Does any think that it will be revealed that Sally
( stimulating herself at age ten) and Betty ( unwilling to admit she made need further help after one previous failed session - oh and her attraction to a man -Henry Francis- who looks like he could be her father) were both molested by Grandpa Gene?

Casting Call!

Hey Everyone! I just posted my picture in the casting call contest, I would really appreciate your vote!

http://madmencastingcall.amctv.com/browse/detail/6WQ6I2

Good luck all contest entrants!

Mad Men - Peggy and Pete. Did Peggy ever tell Pete she had a child?

Your Post

Don and Dr. Edna

I wonder if Don is going to try to have her tell him what Sally confides during her therapy sessions.

Chemical Bank

Did anyone else notice that the $3,000 check Don Draper wrote to the Honda execs was drawn from the "Chelsea Clinton" branch of Chemical Bank?

You asked for it, You got it

Just noticed that the infamous Monty started a post earlier today on the subject of "Should Monty Be Banned". There were about a dozen or so comments when I last looked in on it.Now it seems that entire thread has been deleted. If anyone (moderators included) has any information on this, I would be interested in knowing what happened.

Benihana

I had just gotten home from dining at Benihana's in time to catch the episode and they is Don eating at Benihana's. It was surreal! We used to go there back in the day and then it closed and reopened years later. Don's right it is expensive, but I love it.

Roger vs. The Japanese

Let's discuss Roger's loyalty toward his comrades of WWII and his feeling toward the Japanese.

Flower vs. Sword: Guilt vs. Shame

From Wiki: ""The Chrysanthemum and the Sword: Patterns of Japanese Culture" is an influential 1946 study of Japan by American anthropologist Ruth Benedict written at the invitation of the U.S. Office of War Information in order to understand and predict the behavior of the Japanese in World War II by reference to a series of contradictions in traditional culture. The book was influential in shaping American ideas about Japanese culture during the occupation of Japan, and popularized the distinction between guilt cultures and shame cultures.".

Discuss! :-)

YE OLDE LIL'L THINGS TO LOVE SHOPPE

Season 4, Episode 5, "The Chrysanthemum and the Sword."

(In no particular order)

1.Mini Flags.
2. Grown Up Like Hayley Mills.
3. ACID BETTY!!!!
4. Don's "Prince of Wales" sportcoat.
5.Telling the Japanese how "modern" the SCDP offices are.......
6. Civil Rights & Lassie.........
7. Are you there God? It's me Sally Draper!!!
8. Fried Chicken Smelling Hair.
9. The Don/Joey Exchange.
10. Sterling Lunging, Pete Running.
11. "The Man From Uncle"
12. "River of Shit"

Don + Dr. Faye

I loved the scene between Don and Dr. Faye, where they actually get to know each other. Think they'll end up marrying. Don is Dick Whitman, and he has tried to hide his true identity. Dr. Faye has multiple identities. She tries to hide that she's single by wearing a wedding ring. She has multiple hairstyles, which shows the different identities that she has to assume. In her very first appearance, her hairstyle was identical to Joan's. Dr. Faye is not above being manipulative as show in the Pond's market test scene. Think she'll be someone who understands what Sally's going through and won't resort to slapping her or threatening to cut off her fingers.

Betty divorced Don and ended up with the house, the new husband, and the children--the still "stable" environment, while we've watched Don struggle to make sense out of what happened. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sally end up with Don and Dr. Faye. At the end of her session with Sally's psychologist, Betty is left staring at the doll house with the happy family inside. Think this is something that she'll never have, but that Don will have by the end of the season.

Ebay MM auction

Well, it's 3:30 am here in the East, and, I still can't sleep! I bid on and won one of the old SC Break Room chairs! I still can't believe it!! I can't sleep because I have officially crossed over from Maddict to Maniaddict!!
Did anyone else win anything? I hope so!!!

An Episode About Embarrassment....

We've been moving through the theme of exposure this season from bikinis to nudes. So there was bound to be some embarrassment along the way. That switch in 60's society from modesty to baring all didn't come without a few blushes.

So far, we've seen people embarrass themselves, and embarrass others (Christmas episode). We've also seen people expose parts that many would think would embarrass/expose them (Peggy sleeping with the boyfriend). while keeping hidden parts that would have really embarrassed/exposed them (Peggy hiding from him that's she's a virgin). Kind of a bait and switch tactic.

And we've seen people exposing all while showing a determined lack of embarrassment (Lane and his Texas belt buckle).

What about this episode then? What is this episode saying about embarrassment, especially as a lot of it is about some sort of exposure that embarrasses others but not us? (the Japanese are embarrassed by broken rules but Don, obviously, isn't). Thoughts?

Mrs. Blankenship Fan Club: Roll Call!

Welcome to the 2nd meeting of the Mrs. Blankenship Fan Club. Call to order. We will now sing the club song:

"Who's the coolest secretary
Hired for for Don Francis D.
B-L-A-N-K-E-N-S-H-I-P...

Blanken-Ship! Blanken-Ship

Never will we answer the phone with just Hel-lo?
Hello? Hello?

Come along, and type our song,
And buzz for more coff-ee....

B-L-A-N-K-E-N-S-H-I-P

Don and the babysitter

Don was too hard on the babysitter. She did not know what his daughter was doing in the bathroom. For him to tell her that what he paid her was her "severance" (in other words, I don't want you to come back anymore ) and told her "not to say anything" as she tried to give her side of the story was pure bullish!

Perhaps if he spent more time with his kids, they would not act so abnormal.

Mommy Dearest

Oh Betty I hope Sally doesn't start using wire hangers to hang her clothes. Does anyone know who w the actor was on the television that Sally found so arousing?

Yikes! I don't even feel like I watched an episode!

Did I miss something, or did the whole things go by and left me with nothing?! I didn't even read the thread yet, cuz I don't think there's anything that I need to hear. Have they run out of all of their material? I could write a better episode than that. All of us Maddicts could! (well most!)

Henry and Betty - These two need deserve each other

These two are becoming the characters I love to hate on this show. First of all this guy is what like 20-30 years older than Betty and even though they want Don dead they are more than happy to live in Don's house. What kind of lame - o is he anyway? And now Sally is acting out in ways that seem more consistant with children who have been sexually abused than children of divorce who yearn for a fathers attention. It seems as though Betty may also have some hidden past abuse that will surface. At least January Jones is demonstrating some better acting this season. May I add that Pete has a lot more conviction than I once gave him credit for.

Ep. 5: Combat vs.Confiding, and Peggy on a carousel

Episode 5, combat vs confide. Opening locks

To me, the most interesting scene was Don with Dr. Faye.

She's in an office, yet in the kitchen. Shoes off. Doing dishes. And the only time in the episode, Don actually confides rather than combats. He talks personally which he rarely does. There's no element of vinegar in their presence, like it was before and like to a small degree his dates with Jane's friend, no matter whose fault it would be.

Since she's both in an office and a kitchen, which is the real environment Don is seeing?

Is it simply because she's a psych and it mirrors the Sally angle? Or is it something more, about the homestead blonde. Is that what unlocks the first lock of a safe with many locks to go through until he opens? Is that his pillow, is that his oasis his mind wants to finally rest upon and within? Anna does after all give him a bit of that as well.

Did he see the idea of a Betty without combat, in her? He's also straight with Anna. He sees nothing worthy of substance in Dr. F until that scene. And he is neither alpha male nor bossy toward her, choosing to confide. Most every other scene was one of combat and confrontation with him tonight.

And later with work, did we see Don employing the Cold War strategy of an arm's race?

In addition, Tonight we saw Don on different sides of things. The visual near the end was great, of Don in his chair and Pete and Layne in a big office with plenty of space, but sitting together away from him. With his coworkers, his wife, his date, competitors etc he was always on another confrontational side. Yet he was only together, and for only a few moments, with someone he was formerly on the other side of in blondy Dr. F.

Later we saw Betty in Sally's psyche's office looking wistfully at the idyllic playhouse. Not to mention her with Henry hanging together listening to the music in the living room like we saw with her and Don before. Also not to mention Betty complaining to Henry about parenting, yet telling him he's soft. She did basically the same to Don when he wouldn't smack Bobby.

(and unrelated it would have been very Joan as well looking at the playhouse; meanwhile Peggy is riding the Honda around and around in a circle [carousel style] ).

Which brings us to another unanswerable point: I've always believed in the carousel motif of unencumbered spinning round and round like a child with no admitted beginning or end, no worries as one of the underlying themes of this series (the Kodak presentation, and the visual carousel the episode we met Suzanne Farrell, and the emphasis on globes which spin around and around). Peggy, who we know has a lot of Don in her, visually spinning around and around tonight. We saw her within a round set, traveling around and around, and they could have had her do anything. Or maybe it's just a bunch coincidences through the seasons. Who knows.

Honda S600

For the non car people, I believe this was what Lane was talking about

http://www.adclassix.com/ads/66hondas600roadster.htm

9000rpm and a motorcycle with a body wrapped around it.

I first heard of it in my 90's Sport Compact Car magazine subsciption.

Anyone like Nurse Jackie?

I just discovered this show about 2 months ago and absolutely love it! I ordered Season One through Netflix, couldn't wait for Season Two, so I found it on a website and watched the entire season in 2 seatings. I love it because it has black humor, because of the casting, terrific writing and because I used to work in an ER and this show is AUTHENTIC! I know there are a lot of health care workers on this board, and I just wondered what some of you thought about this show (all of you Maddicts, not just HC folks).

So, has it come to this? Is Don a... Lush?

And if so, do you think it will affect his job on the long run?
Do you think it will become a focal plot point of the season (after all, they wouldn't make such a point of showing him gulping drinks like nobody's business) and maybe would it lead to a (much needed) cathartic breakdown?

Is Don heading to Betty Ford's ?

The subtle brilliance of 4.4's closing scene: "We'll discuss it inside...."

The "old lady" across the hall, with her innate sense of decorum and privacy, is not even willing to reveal her grocery purchases to a stranger, Don. By the look on his face as he unlocks his door, Don is thinking of the contrast between the scruples his neighbor has versus the lack of scruples underlying the marketing experiment for Ponds, and the two young women (Allison included) who bared their souls in front of behind -the -curtain- watchers. Don already knew it was wrong: (Ref. "Favorite Quotes" : "You stick your finger in their brain and blah, blah, blah....It's none of our business...."

Don's neighbor. unintentionally but very effectively, twisted the knife a little deeper into Don's growing conscience.

(Please excuse if this topic has already been mentioned: I've been "Out of Town" this week and behind on my comment reading).

Don Draper v. Dick Whitman

I still do not fully understand why Dick Whitman assumed the identity of Don Draper, after Draper died.
And, why did Anna Draper go along with this?
Ah - and in episode 4 of this 4th season we see Anna Draper's straight-laced sister, Patty. I'm assuming that Patti knew her sister's real husband. Patty calls the not-real Don Draper "Dick". Does she know that Dick has assumed Draper's identity?

Pete Campbell's Non-Response to Peggy's Confession

I realize that a large if not huge segment of MM viewers and board-contributors either hale from or would like to think they hale from the kind of background of the fictional Pete Campbell. For that reason, I understand why it's important to see this fundamentally boring and underdeveloped character as benign.

But since the Time article and Episode Four, the AMC board (as well as other MM forums) has been all but taken over by the Pete-Peggy thing, and so--for anyone with an open mind, or anyone who may not hale from the Dykeman clan or Age of Innocence :)-- Can I suggest that you haul out your Season 2 finale DVD and watch Pete's reaction to Peggy's excruciating confession, a fictional character's account of heartbreak and extramarital pregnancy in an era when heartbreak and extramarital pregnancy were allowed to be acknowledged as excruciating as they always were and always will be. Campbell's reaction, after hearing Peggy's heartrending monologue about being slowly forgotten, is "How could you do this to me?"

That's all, folks. It's not, "What can I do to find the baby?" "Where did you sign it over for adoption?" "You bitch! I'll find that child if it's the last thing I do!" It's none of this and certainly no concern for his co-fictional Peggy. So to beat a dead horse and try to write fan-fiction about an unwanted baby that its mother tried to the best for is kind of pointless.

For reasons having to do with wealth and "high Waspishness," this character is as sacrosanct as Gregory House or Dana Scully or Brent Spiner or (I'm just picking at random early on a Sunday a.m.) any number of television characters throughout the years who can do no wrong. Just admit Pete Campbell is a household saint who deserves his icon next to the Untouchables...and then move on. Because if this series becomes all about freaking Pete Campbell-- possibly THE LEAST INTERESTING character on the show--y'all might as well start holding Mad Men conventions and dressing up in thin rep ties and high-water slacks. It's getting to be a drag, and it's awful when a single character hijacks a brilliant ensemble.

If I make any enemies here for saying this, so be it.

Open Letter From Peggy and Pete's baby (toddler) to all Madaddicts

Hello all you madaddicts. I just thought I'd stop by to clear up a major misconception that some fans of the show seem to harbor, along with those who make a living reviewing television shows they obviously never watched. I refer to a recent article in TIME that assumed I was being raised by Peggy's sister. OMG, that is so not the case!

Mr. Weiner himself has stated in more than one interview that my birth mother, the lovely and talented Peggy Olsen, gave me up for adoption. And Peggy told Peter Campbell (my biological father) this very thing too. I don't hold it against her. She did what she had to do. I am not - REPEAT NOT - residing with Peggy's sister. I was NEVER with her. Ugh, that woman was a total drag and I am so happy that a wonderful young, stable couple adopted me and that I am having the time of my life! The adoption records are sealed so neither Peggy of Pete can ever find me. I am happy where I am and I don't plan to look them up when I am grown. Mr. Weiner has already told me that I will not be appearing in any future episodes of Mad Men. I can't say that I wasn't a little put off when he told me this, but hey, he's holding all the cards and besides, I'm kind of busy going to the zoo, playing with my building blocks, and being pampered by my mom and dad.

So everyone, don't worry about me any more or speculate that I will somehow return to the show one day. I am happy, healthy, and safe and sound with my mom and dad. Keep the peace, the faith and Godspeed to you all! Oh, but if anyone out there knows who the heck John and Marsha is, drop me a line in care of Mr. Weiner.

Hey Weiner

Michael Savage loves the Sopranos and Mad Men.

Don's Man Cave

You know that apt. looks just like Burnham's in the Lost Weekend. Don probably has bottles hidden in the lamp and hanging out the window.

Don Draper/Tony Soprano and John Hamm/James Gandolfini

Two semi-unknown actors chosen to play two of the most iconic characters in TV history....both great actors IMO.....I think Matt Weiner learned from David Chase (Sopranos creator) that choosing a relative unknown as lead was a plus, not a negative...(Chase's first choice for Tony was Ray Liotta) Also, both are flawed characters who we shouldn't really like (although Don doesn't kill people) but dammit, we find ourselves drawn to......that's what great writing can do

Eat Pray Love-Don's Depression

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/08/21/eat-pray-love-authors-ex-husband-has-a-book-of-his-own/

Weiner Was Asked How He Writes His Female Characters So Well

He answered, " I think of a man and then take away reason and accountability"

Don's A Beta Man Trying To Act Alpha

About all he's got going for him is his looks. This is a TV show not reality. An uneducated yokel would be rumbled in a minute.

Are Joyce and Sal Mentally Ill?

Well according to the American Psychiatric Assoc. the 1% homosexual and 1/2 of 1% lesbians in the population are mentally ill. It was later changed due to political pressure but still a large % of psychiatrists still believe it's a psychiatric disorder. And btw, believe it or not they actually vote on this things at their annual convention. Yes, that's real science lol

Ronnie Gittridge as Jim Hobart's brother-in-law?

I was watching season 1 DVD and listening to the commentary for "Shoot".

Matt Weiner was talking with the costume designer but when we get to the bit where Betty is coming in for the audition, Matt mentions, "Jim Hobart introduces Ronnie Gittridge as his brother-in-law which is a little joke people might have missed..." but then the designer start going on about the colors on the dress or something and Matt never gets back to mentioning what the "joke" was?

I realize that McCann has a "Sal character" just like Sterling Cooper did... but what was the joke about the "Brother-in-Law". Anyone?

Not a good daddy

Pete is not ready to be a father yet he does not seem like the type to be sensitive to his child especially if he has a girl

Not a good daddy

I don't think Pete would be a good dad bc I dnt think he is ready and I think that Joan should have gotten pregant not Trudy. I dnt know if Pete can be sensitive to his future child especially if it isnt a boy.

BARBIE...

I'd love to know what the Cast feels about being rendered as Barbie and Ken Dolls...I'm an old Barbie collector from way back when, I have the dolls, I do NOT aplogize for it!!

Maddict Role Call

Just for fun, tell us all where you live, your approximate age and what you do for a living.

I live between Akron and Cleveland (OH), am about to turn 47, and work in Marketing/PR.

(Sure the amctv folks will appreciate the demographic info...)

He Just Wanted to Wash His Face!

I've got the answer to the riddle about the old man and the pears. His insistent inquiry to his wife (did she get pears?) was all to do with his slavish devotion to his beauty routine. Did you know that Pears was/is a famous English soap, and was once advertised using a likeness of the most beautiful English woman of her day, Lillie Langtry? See for yourself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pears_soap

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/onlineex/evancoll/a/014eva000000000u07536000.html

Roger Sterling and J. Peterman

Roger Sterling didn't start out as a totally comic character, but now he's the thin, white-haired J. Peterman of Mad Men. If his fidelity to Jane is believable, there should be some back story to his true love, I think. Jane was a diva before divas were invented.

Season 4 Episode 4 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 4, "The Rejected."

For those who miss 'Attention Deficit Theater', here's Michelle's Collins' recap from Bestweekevertv.com. Enjoy.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2010-08-17/mad-men-recap-finally-the-episode-where-we-get-to-see-don-draper-naked/

When is he going to return?

I don't like the sloppy drunk Don who sleeps around I like the other Don better when will he return? this Don is messy =(

Mad Women

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeKPWcmdXdg

It wasn't a paperweight.

Most every blog/ review site/ recap thread has identified the object that Allison threw as a paperweight.

I'm fairly certain it's the cigarette dispenser.

It's Not Pete's Baby

The guy from the magazine hooked up with Trudy.

Pete and Peggy's Baby

He was adopted by Duck Phillips, named Chauncey, and was abandoned by Duck one cold winter's night on the streets of New York..... he would have starved to death but was saved when a roast chicken very fortuitously landed at his feet while he wandered the streets of Manhattan..... he is currently homeless and living in Central Park where he mooches hot dogs from street vendors and plots revenge against mankind....

So sorry.....these dog days of August seem to be getting to me....

How bout a poem:

I was on my way to Madison Ave.
When I ran into a man that I just couldn't have.

His name was Don
His hat was rimmed,
There was something in his eyes
That showed his life was dimmed.

He lost his life, his wife, his kids
He was living like a man who was out on the skids.
He drank, he smoked, he buried it all deep,
His one saving grace, he wouldn't be able to keep.

Her name was Anna, she had been stricken too soon,
Without her in his life he would surely lose.
A new chance at life, he really does deserve,
Will he head to California, will he have the nerve?

He could stay in New York, and drift into his bottle,
Unless Peggy comes to save him, and go for it full throttle!

Trudy and the Black Out?

I'm not one to speculate much but....

It's early March and Trudy is maybe a month preggers (or less depending on when she got preggers and missed that period--assuming she went to the doctor's after only one missed period). The blackout of 1965 happened November 9th. If she's a little late with the delivery date....

Probably too "TV drama" for Mad Men ;-) She might well be two months in and due Sept/October. Just a thought.

Cougars In The 1960's

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100818/Cougar-myth-busted.aspx

Season 4/Episode 5 Opening Scene Predictions

The very opening scene including characters & location.

DON'S "SEARCH AND DESTROY" CAP!

Put your Don's "Search and Destroy" cap and find another ad campaign for TOYOTA. I just saw 4 big billboards in red and white a la Coca-Cola ad (which resided in the middle). The 4 big billboards said: TOYOTA Moving Forward.
I was thinking as I travelled towards the 10 Freeway in LA, how can this be a good ad? When TOYOTA has been moving forward by us preettty fast!
How would you change this ad? Remember you must put on Don's "Search and Destroy" Cap and take these billboards down and come up with a better message!

yet another game...

Don's Apartment: Bachelor Pad or Flophouse?

Would someone as affluent as Don be living in a place so dingy? It's sort of funny, because the SRO's in old shows like Perry Mason or Mike Hammer are practically penthouses compared to his place.

Don's On The Way Out

After Anna dies he's going to move into the house in California, drink wine, drive around in an XKE convertible and shag college girls. He has enough money to live on. F Sterling Cooper, F crazy Betty and F the kids. He'll take the dog.

Yes, They Just Want To Get Married

http://www.fredoneverything.net/HookingUp.shtml

Mad Men Haikus!

Try your hand...it'll be fun!

Sunday night at 10!
amc's where you'll find me;
Don Draper's eyes talk!

Found in a steakhouse:
Lane's brand new accessory!
Texas belt buckle!

Lee Gardner Junior
Whines away on phone. Whoops ---
There's a fire; BYE!

Peggy sneaks a peek:
Don Draper's acting badly.
Kilroy was here!

Four guys cut their legs
off: December sixty three.
SCDP's born!

McCann Erickson Responds to Mad Men Dis

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/08/mccann_erikson_responds_to_mad.html?mid=agenda--20100818

Grieving for the Two Mrs. Drapers

It occurred to me that for all our being disturbed by Don's downward spiral with the excessive drinking, this is actually the first time Don has been "free" in his private life to do so, and maybe that is why so much drinking seems to be going on. I think Don's actually grieving over losing Betty (even as he seemed to let go of her so easily), and the second blow of losing Anna has sent the whole anvil of loss on top of him. It's ironic that he's lost the two women who were so important to him both at the same time, don't you think? With the loss of Adam, Don didn't have the luxury of indulging in his emotions while still living with Betty. I guess I'm surprised by Don's emotional frailty in contrast to his spoken philosophy to Peggy of "forget this ever happened" which he obviously can't seem to achieve now. I don't know what other avenues Don can take to "move on". What do you think he'll do?

New game

You know you are mid way between MM episodes when you notice little things from the last episode like...Harry eating Wise chips during the focus group. I guess UTZ stayed behind.

Off Topic - South Pacific - Tonight Live From Lincoln Center

Just a reminder to tune in tonight to PBS 8 pm EDT to watch the wonderful Paulo Szot in the "Live from Lincoln Center" performance of the current "South Pacific" showing at the Vivian Beaumont Theater, a run which is now longer than 2 years, and the VERY FIRST Broadway revival.

Don Draper, eat your heart out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSH6oBRw6rw

If Don Draper was going to write the tagline of your life, what would it be?

I think he would call mine, "Shoot the No People"...

Repeat viewing of Jon Hamm on Ellen

He's the guest on the Ellen Degeneres Show tomorrow, a repeat from earlier this year.

LIDDLE KIDDLE THINGS TO LUV

Season 4, Episode 4, "The Rejected."

(In no particular order)

1. Swell-a-gant!!!!
2. Peggy Peeking
3. High WASP
4. No Low Angles for Smoking Superheros
5. Freddy speaking out of the side of his mouth/face.
6. Pricing the Sexes.
7. Joan closing the curtains.
8. The shot with Burt in the background.
9. The Velvet Underground
10, "The New Guard"
11. "You drank it all".
12. Pears......

Season 4 Episode 4 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 4, "The Rejected"? Post it below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

Clueless psychologist

Dr. Faye is sure missing that sensitivity chip. Her focus group brought up issues that were really painful for the secretaries, but she saw it as having "gone very well." When somebody inquires about Allison's condition, Faye says,"Who?" as if she saw or heard nothing. Her manipulation in dressing down, taking off her ring and pretending that her name tag was lost were somewhat unethical. Then after all that, she joins the Paleolithic age by deciding that it all means that women just want to get married.
I predict a great future for her, though. She will become "Dr. Faye" of a radio or TV show and continue to dish out inane advice and rake in the bucks, a la "Dr." Laura and "Dr." Phil.

Don't Make the Smoker Look Heroic

This might have been mentioned in the John Slattery director thread, but I thought I'd mention it here just in case it was missed....

At the beginning of this Episode,they're discussing with Lee what cigarette companies can and cannot show any more in their television commercials. The first thing we see is Don lighting a cigarette from another cigarette. We see him from an "up" angle. in fact, we see him two or three time from this angle.

And, sure enough, the punch line to all this is one particular rule that he quotes (as we gaze up at him smoking): "You can't show the smoker at an up angle. You can't make him look heroic...."

I'm beginning to really love this season. It's filled with comedy.

Youth Culture and Episode 4

The REJECTED, made one point clear. The older generation may have the money but the young upstarts are nipping at their heels. Don's drinking, Roger's quest for youth and Bert Cooper's ancient attitudes make them incresingly less relevant and ultimately out of touch. Pete's quest for approval have made him a better account man and Peggy is becoming a force to reckon with in her own right. So is Don's condescending attitude in season 2 about youth really relevant now that his financial success is dependent on the Younger Generation?

Peggy Olson's Brave new world = leverage at work

Who knew that the former mouse ears, Irene Dunn type, catholic girl from bayridge was a hipster? Will Peggy use her bridge to the youth and counter culture to her advantage at SCDP. We know that Don's drifting further and further downward. It looks as though Peggy and Pete willl be the future of SCDP - Pete has brought new clients to the agency and Peggy well she has defintely overtaken Don . Thoughts?

Why do we love or hate Don?

I've noticed some just hate Don; he cheated on his wife, he's a liar and that makes him a scumbag. Others of us like him,
myself included, more than we probably should given his flaws.
A friend of mine says I just like him because he's handsome. But,
I don't think I'm quite that shallow!

I think I see Don's layers and am intrigued. On the surface, he
is a cool blank surface, a cipher. Those who work with him are
going to spend a lot of time with this layer. He can be the
chameleon that appears to fit in with the group of the moment.
This is Don Draper and his very mystery drives women
crazy.

Below that layer, is the cad, the cheater who reacts to pain by
lashing back or numbing the feelings with alcohol, sex or drugs.
This is the coward that Rachel unmasked. I see this layer as the
little boy who never had a mother, never learned what love means
or if it even exists. Emotionally Don is horrifically immature.
Given that there is a real reason for this and his upbringing
was so awful, I guess I cut him quite a bit of slack for that.

But, then there is a deeper level. A mature Don who knows he is
frequently a scumbag and it bothers him greatly. He wants to be
a better person, he wants to be capable of love. He knows he isn't
"Don", he is Dick Whitman and he likes being Dick Whitman. We see
that with Anna and his relaxation with a world where his identity
isn't hidden. We see him being annihilated by his image in a mirror.
Don has a conscience, a strong one. Allison was right that he isn't
a good person, but he wants to be. He hasn't found the way yet,
though he does step up to the occasion when it is really called
for, such a when Peggy was in the hospital and in very real danger.

In real life we don't get to see all these sides of a person. What
I'm really not sure of is whether I would like Don if I worked with
him? I suspect I would, but it would hope that it be more on the
level of Peggy and her understanding of him. She knows he is
capable of good and bad. She calls him on the bad and remains his
friend. He has been a friend to her and she returns the favor.

What I hope is that he will not marry again to someone who is only
responding to Don Draper. He needs someone who gets that he is much
more (and less) than that.

Kilroy Was Here

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, or even if anyone felt this, but when I first saw Peggy peering over her cubicle all I could think of was "Kilroy Was Here." If you don't know what I'm referring to, you might be interested in its history on Wikipedia. It started before my time but was still a popular reference in cartoons, etc in the 1960's.

The King of Madison Avenue - David Ogilvy & the Making of Modern Advertising

Has anyone ready this book by Kenneth Roman? I am just about to start it.

Actress Cara Buno's interview from Entertainment Weekly

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/08/16/mad-men-cara-buno-faye-miller-interview/?xid=rss-feed-todayslatest-%27Mad+Men%27%3A+Faye+Miller+time

"I Think You Should Get Over It"

There's a lot to this line that Peggy says to Allison. At first I thought it related exclusively to her relationship with Pete, the fact that Peggy was also a secretary who had an affair, and got over it. Got over having a baby, which is far and away more than Allison's one-night-stand. So Peggy can certainly wonder why Allison is carrying on. We might even say Peggy's channeling Joan in that moment.

But then there is Joyce, the nude photos, and what Peggy, with her woman-in-the-mirror ad is beginning to realize. Go back to weeping Dorothy and think of how Peggy might be comparing Dorothy or Allison to Joyce. When Peggy says, "Get over it" what she might really be saying is: "Stop making the attention you get (or don't get) from a man all that defines you. All that tells you if you matter."

I think Peggy is moving out of trying on the engagement ring to being annoyed with the engagement ring (definition of a woman--has a man or doesn't). She snaps at Allison, and Don snaps at Faye and both are saying similar things: "Why can't a woman's opinion of herself be what matters?" (i.e., why can't Allison write her own letter of recommendation?). Why can't women see themselves as beautiful? Why does having/not having a man define who a woman is?

Note, by the way, that doesn't mean that "get over it" or "write your own recommendation" were the right things to say. They were lacking empathy at best, clueless at worst, and Allison had every right to be furious. But then I don't think either Peggy or Don was thinking of Allison when they said those things.

Other thoughts on Peggy's "get over it" line?

Time - Life Building (some errors)

Hello all, I'm not one to pick on errors made by the show although I like reading about them but I have a couple to share with the group. Having worked in the Time Life Building for many years myself the I know for a fact that the placement of the columns that keep getting in Pete's way would never be in the spots the show has them in. They are too close to the windows. No building would have that. Also, the view of the buildings outside Don's office are too high. SCDP is on the 37th floor. The buildings in the background tower above Don's office window which isnt the case even today, let alone 1965. The Time Life Building is 48 stories and the only building in the area thats more than 1 or 2 stories higher is 30 Rock.

Name that video entry contestant on Episode 4!

So, perhaps I was a bit too tied up in my own video entry, and a bit sore that I didn't win, but it kept my eyes glued to the AMC Mad Men site, until I found out who won!
SO, I don't know if anyone else caught her, but one of the Pond's Focus Group girls was one of the Top 10 video entry contestants!!! She was the Redhead, in the green suit! I keep hoping to see the girl who won the video contest, as she did an excellent job with Bobbie Barrett's monologue. Apparently, Matt Weiner agrees, because he chose her video as the best performance.
Did you see her the top 10 contestant? I recognized her, though it took me a moment! She did the Don Draper monologue, and I thought she gave one of the BEST video performances. And, I couldn't be happier for her! Though she didn't have any lines, she stood out prominently!
Has anyone found out when Porter (the girl who won the photo contest) will be on the show?

Freddy Was Right They Just All Want To Get Married

The female psychologist had to do a "study" to learn what Freddy, a man, knew by instinct and experience. Looks like Peggy was the out of touch one here.

Plaid and Pleats

I really loved this episode but never realized how big a part anticipation of the early 60's fashions played in being a fan. The clothes were so dowdy, especially Peggy's. Joan will probably be poured into her Marilyn Monroe dressed until she retires, but I hope at least Betty doesn't start wearing boxy plaid pleated...things.

Peggy's hip new crowd!

I'm loving the new crowd Peggy's hanging out with.

Peggy always was forward-thinking, both in her sexuality, substance experimentation, and her tolerance of sexual nonconformists.

But I think we may rest assured that this new crowd-- a Warholesque scene representing NYC artists and intellectuals who straddled Eastern noncoformism between the beatniks and outright hippiedom-- is going to propel Peggy into the stratosphere.

Who'd-a thunk that our Peggy--- not your traditional vava-voom girl, really--- is going to be the most sexually and artistically forward thinking of the SC lot?

And what's up with Joyce? I don't think it's much of a stretch to peg Joyce as a young gay woman. Is she going to take our Pegs for a "walk on the wild side" ?

The lovely young woman portraying Joyce reminds me poignantly of both Kitty Genovese... and Valerie Solanas.

http://www.wired.com/images/index/2009/03/kitty_Genovese.jpg

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/docroot/dulcinea/fd_images/news/on-this-day/May-June-08/On-this-Day--Valerie-Solanas-Shoots-Andy-Warhol/news/0/image.jpg

What would a Joyce do with a man who two-timed her and used her shamelessly, like Don did Allison? One shudders to think.

Comment on Ken Cosgrove

Has he morphed into DUCK???
He looked so uptight sitting at the table with Pete. Even his facial expressions reminded me of Duck (YUCK)!!! He was much more charming when he had dinner with Sal and his wife.

Alas, poor Hollis, I knew him well...

One thing I noticed in the scene where Peggy meets Joyce in the elevator of the Time-Life Building... no elevator operator. Since the 60s were before my time, I was wondering when that job was phased out. It couldn't be with the advancement of engineering; the elevator at SC seemed like the modern type, yet Hollis had a job for all four years/three seasons.

How is Don's health?

I know Don had a Dr. appt a few seasons ago but I think it's time again. He is drinking more (if that is possible) and on the edge of a depression. I think he is supposed to get a check up every year at least for insurance purposes. He is looking old....still good, but older. Does anyone else think his health may start to play a factor?

Joan's In Office Character

I have loved Joan since day one and absolutely adore Christina Hendricks (Hello, Saffron!), but I can not understand how her character this season as it pertains to the office. She appears to absolutely hate everything about working for SCDP. Around the office, she seems to have lost her trademark wit and humor and looks fairly put out at every turn (episode 4 is a perfect example). Is it just me?

Please Help!

Does Don know Peggy had a baby? My friend swears that the scene In the hospital when Don tells her this will all be forgotten etc. He was talking about her breakdown,not the baby. She's so pompous,and arrogant about it. She a Psychologist ,and thinksshe know everything. Help me prove her wrong.... PLEASE!!!

Please Help!

Does Don know Peggy had a baby? My friend swears that the scene In the hospital when Don tells her this will all be forgotten etc. He was talking about her breakdown,not the baby. She's so pompous,and arrogant about it. She a Psychologist ,and thinksshe know everything. Help me prove her wrong.... PLEASE!!!

Sexy Harry Crane

He's losing weight ("hold the dressing" on his salad), his hair's nice, and he's getting devious. Really nice to see an underrated character reinventing himself *again*. Is he the only male character who has been faithful, or did he have a fling the night of the Kennedy election?

Nice

My favorite part of last night's show was when Peggy was twirling her ring and didn't realize Don was watching her do and he was smiling. I just thought that part was cute and funny lol

Too many bit-part characters this season?

Does anyone else feel that given the amount of already existing storyline loops, the number of minor characters introduced thus far this season is a bit on the high end?

I know that unpredictability is part of the show's unique suspense and appeal, but is the amount of screen time given to characters like Anna's niece, nurse Phoebe, Joey in creative, Peggy's seemingly soon-to-be ex-boyfriend, et cetera really necessary? Ken Cosgrove got three minutes or so last night and the actor who plays him is still on the title screen. Don't get me wrong, I've loved every minute this season overall; and I know people come in and out of your life all the time, but the 'growth pace' of the character roster could use some slowing.

Bert Cooper's "Office"

As mentioned elsewhere, Bert Cooper was in the background of this episode, content to hang out just about anywhere and everywhere, in stocking feet and munching on fruit. As if in his own living room.

We don't know if Bert has an office--we might well see where he keeps his Rothko in coming episodes, but it occurs to me that he might see the whole of SCDP as his office. And reside in it as comfortably as he did in his old office.

I like the way he contrasts Don in this episode as the contented old bachelor, alone, but never lonely.

Pete & Peggy = Don & Anna

The similarities just hit me. Pete/Don married, kids, "establishment" lifestyle for all that he's more open-minded and different than most of his "tribe." Peggy/Anna unconventional, likely to remain unmarried and living with boyfriends. Marching to the beat of her own dummer.

A secret tying them together.

And by the end of this episode we see the possibility of Pete and Peggy being good friends for a long time. Yes? No?

Secretaries Crying out in the Open?

The times they ARE a' changin! Remember in Episode 1 where all the secretaries were crying in the bathroom? Remember Joan chiding the one about tears? That was the old Sterling-Cooper.

At the new SCDP they cry openly, and in Allison's case, even shout. No more hiding away in the bathroom. Does this, perhaps, reflect other things coming out into the open? Bathing suits showing skin? nude photos? Like that picture of Anna and Don?

Rachael

Does anyone think Rachael will return to be with Don?...I thought that they were soulmates...

This Never Happened

A key thread to Episode 4 is that Don's "this never happened" mantra can not be maintained. He tried to act as if the encounter with his secretary Allison never happened. She couldn't do that. Or, more significantly, she refused to pretend it didn't happen, much to Don's dismay. And, he actually suffered direct consequences by losing a great secretary.

Don famously told Peggy how surprised she would be about how easily her pregnancy and the birth of the child "never happened." Although it hasn't become public knowledge and probably won't, Pete and Peggy know it happened. The fact that she had their baby is a secret and bond they share. When Pete learns that Trudie is pregnant and mentions his surprise at how great it feels, Trudie makes a comment alluding to the fact that he wouldn't have known how it feels to find out he's a father (when in fact he had heard that news previously from Peggy.) When Peggy learns Trudie is pregnant, it clearly affects her, even as she is building her own life in a much different direction. Internally, they can not completely pretend the pregnancy "never happened," even if they only share it with each other. The look they share at the end of the episode reveals the bond and the tenderness even as they clearly go their separate ways.

Mrs. Blankership Fan Club

I'm starting one! Sorry, Joan, but I've switched allegiances. How can one resist Mrs. Blankership as the *best* secretary ever? That lulling voice, that silvery hair, that New York dialect.....

And she makes sure you've got coffee and a roll.

:-D

Matrimony or "Did you get my Pairs?"

Aside from the running theme of rejection (as stated in the title of the episode) I think marriage was also a major running theme. (And perhaps was the correlative opposite too the rejection theme) We see marriage from all sides: The young secretary who is crying because she wants to be married but was rejected by her ex boyfriend) - Ken Cosgrove who is Marrying for money - Pete and Trudy's excitement over their visit from the stork- Peggy's pulling off and on that engagement ring when she really has no intention of getting married to that guy but wants to seem "normal"- The think tank Dr. (and why hasn't Don made a move on her? - too challenging for his weakened state I surmise) conclusion that woman will use a product if it promises they will get a husband out of it- the notion which Don ( recently divorced) feels is archaic. But the old couple with the pears (the symbol of a pear being a popular wedding favor) in Don's apartment building hallway tells the truth of it all. IS it natural to grow old with someone? I'd say for the rare few, the strong and the lucky perhaps. I can't see Don or Peggy for that matter having that kind of relationship with anyone.

Where's Don Draper?

At the end of Episode Four entitled "The Rejected", we see an elderly couple in Don's apartment building, and we are meant to be eavesdropping, as Don is in the hallway. What he overhears serves as a gentle voice, nagging at what remains of his conscious mind. The insistent, querilous man, his raw needs exposed, reduced to begging for sweets. "Did you get pears?" is repeated three times, with no response from the woman, presumably his wife of many years. He and Don and the audience are left hanging like that question, until her reply comes in its own good time, as she opens their door to go in. "We'll discuss it inside", she tells her husband as they enter and the door closes. The camera goes to Don's face as he considers what he has witnessed. We can see it has meaning for him.

There was a time when Don Draper had it all. His life was the envy of every man he met, and his body the desire of every woman. But like Icarus flying too close to the sun, his waxy wings melted, and he is now in freefall. Chain smoking, drinking until he passes out, hitting on anything in a skirt. And people are reacting negatively. His charm has evaporated, his teflon shield seems full of holes. Women turn away, in pity or in anger. The other executives laugh openly at him struggling after the explosive scene with his secretary. It's payback time, folks. Colleagues are watching him, spying on him, discussing him in the break room, ladies' room, elevator.

Remember when he tried to silence Bobbie Barrett? He hated even his sexual prowess being discussed, and flipped out when he was made to realize that his escapades were a topic about town. His brutal attempt to force her silence was to no avail. We later understand that Bobbie arranged for her husband to expose their affair to Don's wife Betty. From that moment on, Don's marriage suffers a wound from which it will never recover. His total degradation ensues. The lid he has kept so tightly clamped down on his wayward behavior has blown off like the Fourth of July, and he's exposed for all the world to see. Despised and rejected of men.

Becoming Peggy

Wow what an episode this week. I find new things every time I think about it. "The Rejected" was of course the running theme and as Greg pointed out in his post there were many rejections. Rejecting a crush, rejecting an opinion, rejecting an order to ax Clearasil, rejecting conformity and the old guard, rejecting the girl on girl advance, the list goes on. I feel that this episode has to go to Peggy. (Although Campbell has stepped up his game). Peggy is all over the map wrestling with who she is yet mustering her composure in spite of it all. I think the most telling image ( and one MW uses often) is the supine position. Lying back on the couch in her office mid day to momentarily sort it all out and regroup. Could it be Peggy is in fact becoming Don Draper? A brilliant mind with mounting secrets and a sense of recklessness and adventure in a world of appearances. Yes Peggy is becoming Peggy. The other running theme of this episode was Matrimony and while Peggy's vagina is being "rented" she has no plans to sell. She continues to battle stereotypes of woman with position (Allison's inference that she slept with Don to get her position) and the woman from Time magazine who assumed her to be a lesbian. Peggy takes that in stride and is going to surprisingly be the agencies link to what is to come and suspect many exciting misadventures for her personally as well. Thoughts?

Historical Dating

We have all seen how MadMen has reflected events in the real world through the show. Some shows have had part or all of the plot line based off of real events. The Kennedy Assassination, Marilyn Monroes Death, The Cuban Missile crisis and others. In "The Rejected", there was a casual mention of Malcolm X's murder earlier in the week.(Feb 21 1965). I just started to wonder how often a real event is referenced by Matt Weiner to help us viewers in the time line. Is there a real date hint in every episode? American Airlines Crash, Kruschev visiting Disneyland, Medgar Evers killing, football and baseball games have all been used for dating the show. I am just wondering if it is 100% of the time and I am to lazy to watch every episode to find out. Just wondering if anyone can help.

Posting problems

I tried to post on the Episode 4 thread 5 times with no luck. I just have a few random thoughts about the episode...
MRS. BLANKENSHIP!! I love this women! Reminds me of Mrs. Wiggins on Carol Burnett, she's going to be fun!
Joan on the "other side" of the curtains with the execs., remember Belle Jolie?
Allison getting to Don by saying "you're not a nice person", and he tries to type a drunken apology?
The last scene. The "old boys" of the decade contrasted with the "new generation" of the decade.

All Actors wanta be directors? How did John do?

Which scene had John's stamp on it? Was he able to transition well from comedic to dramatic? Do you think he improvised with Peggy? Personally, I think John is not a wanna be, he is a very good director!

Ep4: The competition over Peggy, the unexpected trophy.

The competition over Peggy:

Last year, Duck trying to woo Peggy from Sterling Cooper.

The priest competing both with and against her in season 2 for the truth.

Her mother competing with Madison Avenue to keep her home.

Her sister endlessly competing with her due to sibling rivalry.

Don, wanting to bring her from SC to SCDP.

At the party tonight, the guy in the closet and Peggy's friend both having eyes for her competing for her.

At SCDP Peggy is in an implied competition because the old guard likes her work and wants her; Freddie, Don and Roger only care about who makes money. But the new guard shows up for her not exactly being shy about it. The old guard takes her work seriously which is so important to her, even if they still have a boys will boys attitude that she has to put up with. But the new guard cares not about her work. The new guard doesn't care about one of the very things so important to her.

Does Peggy stick with those who take her work seriously even though they don't treat her like one of the boys? Or does Peggy join those that take an interest in her but have no care for her work, which means a lot to her?

The conflict that defines Peggy steps to another level.

What defines Peggy? Her work means more than a lot. Those here tonight that accept her with no questions care not at all about her work, something that is her very core though. Those who care about what is her very core, her work, don't treat her like friends.

Peggy is a girl who gets no attention, yet is unaware of all the attention that she actually has. It manifests itself in the competition on different levels about her. Yet, it's competition that's not about her as her own person, it's competition about her being an object.

What was great about Duck sending her the scarf last year was that Peggy doesn't have the simple things like a guy sending her a simple gift. Somewhere underneath everything Peggy is still a girl at heart. That's why she wanted to keep it. Peggy finally had attention that was a good personal thing even if it was fake, it was a personal item even if simple. But even though she knew better, she's so starved she liked it.

Peggy has been completely starved for attention because she's either been an object as an office tool or a family tool or a utilitarian tool, but here tonight she (seemingly because you never know what will happen) was given attention not for a personal use, but finally as an accepted peer. Even in the 3 parties episode last year she was still treated as a lark and not seriously with the Paul gang.

Peggy is in need of an identity and made a decision tonight. Was it really the right one?

It's those who accept her as a peer yet care not at all about what is so intrinsic to her core, to part of her heart, what really matters to her SO much, her work. They couldn't care less.

VS

Those who give her the validation of her work, yet don't count her personally as a peer.

Which group is the real user?

Peggy, who wants what any normal person does, attention, gets none yet gets too much; just too much of the wrong kind. Not exactly new in life, huh?

The conflict that is Peggy continues...

Glimpses of Humanity

I just loved this episode. I think one of the reasons that I enjoyed it so much was because we got to see the human side of many of the characters.

Allison - she finally has her full-on breakdown and confronts Don about their night together and how she feels 'ashamed.' Not an easy thing to do (to confront Don), and it's not an easy thing to say that you're ashamed of something you did. Then we see her lose her temper and stand up to Don, telling him he's not a good person. So Alison does have feelings.

Pete - usually portrayed as a slimy weasel, tonight we got to see him go through a roller coaster of emotions. When he finds out they're dropping the Clearisil account, he goes to his office and starts banging his hand against the wall. Then comes the news of the baby. Seeing how truly happy he was over the news of his impending fatherhood was such a great insight to his character. And the fact that he actually forgot all about his job problems ( to tell his father in law that they are dropping the Clearisil account) as soon as he found out Trudy was pregnant really showed he was genuinely happy. We could also see the conflict in his face when Peggy congratulated him. And the look he gave her at the end when Peggy was leaving for lunch with her new friends, that was heartbreaking. (That deserves its own thread).

Peggy - again, we see her on Don's side. When Allison lets on to Peggy that she slept with Don, Allison had no sympathy for her and never let on to Don that she knew. She didn't even give him a dirty look. We also see her peeking over into Don's office after Allison stormed out (one of the best scenes). We get an idea of how interested and curious she is about Don and what makes him tick. Then after finding out about Pete and Trudy's baby, she showed emotion that we have not seen in a couple of seasons. On the verge of tears and banging her head against her desk. Then working up the nerve to congratulate Pete...they've never addressed the baby issue after she revealed the news to Pete in season 2. And there's the look she shares with Pete when she goes to lunch...

Don - finally we see him squirm and actually look like he feels bad when Alison begins to cry in the Ponds research forum. Then it gets worse when Alison confronts him - the look on his face, when Alison told him she was ashamed, and not from running out of the room crying, was priceless. Someone was actually holding him accountable for his actions, and I don't think he'd had to deal with that in a while (at least since the big reveal with Betty). And it all happened pretty publicly, with the whole office watching as Allison storms. out. Then there was the tender moment when he watches Peggy try on the blonde lady's wedding ring (can't remember her name). Finally, Don trying to type a letter of apology to Allison...wow, he has a heart! Of course we knew he did, but we hadn't seen it in so long.

All in all, an outstanding episode with rich, complex character-development. This is why I love this show!

Ep4: Peggy, Don and more exploration of identity

Don at the end.

Watching the old man, did Don see the future? It is clear on what side of the wall, the wall we saw in SCDP with the old guard on one side and the new guard right outside, we saw this old man is on. He is on the side that is apart from the new rising Peggy and friends side. But, the old man is with someone though. He is not on the side of the wall about power to the people etc. He is on his side of the wall, alone with his wife, quiet and concerned only with his peaches. This is probably a man who spent his life being simply thankful for what he ever had, and not being angry at what he didn't have. The difference between the two sides of the wall.

Don said to Rachel Menkin in the first episode ever, (and one of the best dialogues you'll ever hear) "you're born alone and you die alone, and all this world does is drop a bunch of rules on top of you. I never forget that. I'm living for tomorrow because, there is none."

Peggy spent last season and up until this season riding a confused fence, undecided which side is her, in search of an identity.

And of course remember identity is a running theme through our little show here.

In the end of this episode, the old guard is shaking hands as the modern executive does. Peggy's crowd is giggling having fun, as the new guard does.

Don enters his crappy apartment, alone, as the episode ends.

Pete at the steakhouse (spoiler) (not the steak, i'm sure that was fine)

Does anyone remember what Pete said to Harry when he used the Jewish slur talking about the people at CBS?

I took that as a reminder of Pete's very open views on race (which suprised me at first but has kept me from totally hating him) and maybe a foreshadowing of the upcoming episode about the Japanese company.

Ep 4: Glass wall, Acceptance vs. Rejection

The Rejected.

So many levels. We get the obvious, Pete being rejected at the office, then having to reject his father-in-law and of course Don rejecting Allison. Then at the end of course, Peggy rejecting the old guard as she runs off with her new crowd.

But there's one more element about facing rejection, really interesting. The last shot: Don looking at the old man going into his apt as Don is doing the same. The rejection of Don Draper and that sort of society is no coincidence juxtaposed with the shot of Peggy prior and her younger people. Don is the rejected.

Delving into that, we saw two groups, and an in-between group, similar to yet again to the 3 parties episode last year.

Peggy last year in the 3 parties episode was as always caught in between an identity. She was half working as the old guard would, but ends up half playing as the new guard does. This episode this season, she makes a choice, her own choice.

There's a barrier, the glass door/wall separating the old guard from the new guard as Peggy's friends enter (but stop at it and don't go through it). Also visually you have the secretary in red, a shot from behind, using her visually placed between the two groups as well, visually drawing the line for further visual emphasis. Peggy asks do you want to join us, she says she can't. The secretary is in between symbolically, between work of the old guard as she does and play of the new guard as she seemingly wants; not just spirit but also visually the presence of her body drawing the line. Rare do you see camera shots from behind someone, so here there's a reason.

Peggy has a sort of closure in her first conversation with Pete. Then here, with the visuals of the divided society, the choice she makes, she says something to Pete. Without words and through metaphor she says goodbye to Pete, through the wall and choosing to stand on her side of it.

Last year Peggy was lost, searching for an identity. Tonight she chose. Don is a lost man, and he is stuck.

Both Don and Peggy saw their future here tonight?

The Peggy & Pete Split

I always like the twists Mad Man throws our way, and this was a nice one. We might have assumed Peggy and Don would start to split along that "generation gap," but actually we see it happening between Pete and Peggy.

It's interesting as well that the Peggy and Pete separate into those camps even as they reconcile. What Allison accuses Peggy of doing with Don, Peggy did do with Pete (she was a secretary at the time, just like Allison). And Peggy's snap at Allison to "get over it" is really a snap at herself. She was able to move on after the baby, even patch up relations with Pete, but she's never quite gotten over him.

Trudy's baby is what finally seals the deal, both for Pete and for Peggy. They both have to start looking to the future and "get over" what might have been. And so they split, joining divergent camps at the end, the groups that are going to take them to their respective futures.

Favorite Moments from The Rejected

Allison to Don when he asks why the bottle is empty...."because you drank it".

Pete walking into his office and meeting once again with the white column.

Harry regarding his father-in-law, the bus driver..."the only place he can take me is to the moon".

Don watching Peggy playing with Dr. Miller's wedding rings.

Peggy looking over the top of the office wall at Don after Allison hand delivers her resignation.

Peggy and Pete both bang their heads to control their emotions......that last long look between them at the end......

Caroline and Miss Blankenship....so now Don is finally equal with Roger in Joan's eyes....two drunken bums who can't be trusted with pretty, young secretaries.

Joey to Peggy regarding Malcom X...."Are you reading what's between the ads?".

The glimpse of Bert Cooper just hanging out in the lobby with Megan, reading the paper and eating an apple with his stockinged feet on the coffee table....everyone wants to hang with Megan, especially Peggy's new best girlfriend.

"Did you get pears? Did you get pears? Did you get pears?" "We will discuss it inside."

Great season, thus far.....I am enjoying every minute of it.....Peggy gets lovelier every episode....loved her in the striped turtleneck.....was she wearing knee socks with a shorter skirt in the scene where she and her new friend are running down the block?

Who threw the grenade?

With an easy to follow complexity above and beyond all other television shows in production, Mad Men is an entertaining and intelligent hour the masses can enjoy without much effort before taking on the responsibilities of a long work week. Characters and story arcs were easy to follow over the first three seasons, allowing viewers to talk about the show all week long. But since Sterling Cooper moved on, the confusion among the ranks can be represented by the fact that few people remember the new firm name. Don Draper is suffering angst only a tv character could, and his smartass routine is getting a little tired and dry. Peggy should become a mad scientist for all the experimentation she accomplishes in an hour. Abd the tiring list of 100 storylines drones on and on. When January Jones and the kids return to the series the lifeboat ad agency is really going to have a tough time staying afloat. Complicate one or two main characters at a time and gice the rest supporting arcs until it is their turn to occupy the frame. My wife might not fall asleep after the first fifteen minutes.

Peggy in the Lobby....Pete in the Office..........

This second to last scene of the episode was loaded with unspoken stuff! The past, or old guard, of men standing in the office. Peggy, with her hipster friends, waiting for he elevator, representing youth, abd what's to come, and lots of change. Then, you have the added layer of Peggy and Pete's knowing glances, loaded with the knowledge of his new baby and the one he's never known. Great writing, acting and directing (good job, Slattery!) in a just a few brief moments. Once again, the brilliance of this show.

Naturi Naughton plays new character

Naturi Naughton to guest star on 'Mad Men'
Sunday, August 15 2010, 10:31am EDT
By Marcell Minaya, Entertainment

Naturi Naughton has revealed that she has signed on to appear in Mad Men.

The Notorious actress said that she was excited about her breakthrough role on the AMC series and admitted that she could not give too much away concerning her participation on the show.

Speaking to Vibe, she said: "I just finished working on [an episode]. It's a great show and I'm really excited about just having been a part of it. It's very cool.

"It's 1964 or 1965 now [on the show]. There haven't been any blacks featured on the show previously because of the times, but now it's time and here I come."

Naughton added: "I'm a new character and I can't really talk about it too much because it's super hush-hush."

=========================================
Well, yes there HAVE been black charcters on the show (Carla and Hollis among others) but looks like 1965 is ramping up for more.

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a261866/naturi-naughton-to-guest-star-on-mad-men.html

BTW she's not in tonight's cast list on IMDb (not that that means much) but there is another black actress listed for tonight, Karimah Westbrook who plays Sharon.

Character Theme Songs

Someone mentioned a character having a theme song and this has been driving my nuts all day.

Joan: Squeeze Box

I think i just earned myself an ice cream cone.

From Adultery to Zipper..."Mad Men A - Z"

http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20395708_20412953,00.html?hpt=C2

"Mad Men Unbuttoned, A Romp Through 1960s America"

I just received this book form Amazon.com. I started reading it last night, it's very good so far. The author tells the stories of the real Mad Men and advertising in the '50s and '60s. I never realized hoiw many Mad Men characters are actually based on historical Ad people. And many of the ad pitches on MM are based on real info.
If anyone is interested the author is: Natasha Vargas-Cooper, the book is a paperback, around $14.00.

Mad Men, Mad Women? A Look at Gender & Culture

The award-winning television series Mad Men is advancing into the fourth season. Set on Madison Avenue and in the suburbs of New York City in the early 1960's, the show provides a fascinating portrayal of the culture of the day. One of the most fascinating aspects of this culture as explored by the show has been gender. Gender roles are quite distinct. Men are men, and women are not. Yet, within the female gender, the roles are very multi-faceted, depending upon socioeconomic status, marital status, and physical appearance, among other things. Nevertheless, no matter how different their lives are, the female characters all share a certain fundamental trait as a result of the gender distinctions depicted: a desire to control the course of their lives, and a limited ability to do so based on the limited opportunities afforded them as women.
Mad Men is set in an advertising agency, in which one particular ad campaign for a women's underwear manufacturer proposed that "there are two kinds of women - Marilyns and Jackies," referring to the two iconic women of the time, Marilyn Monroe and Jacqueline Kennedy. These two women, then as now, perhaps represented the proverbial Madonna/whore complex which has plagued the American woman. Now, that unattainable standard is soft-peddled compared to the way it was blatantly broadcast at the time the show is set.
Mad Men depicts three major female characters, one of which, Joan, is clearly a "Marilyn," one of which, Betty, is clearly a "Jackie," and another of which, Peggy, asks out loud, "Which one am I?" Peggy is the only female "ad man" in the agency. Young, single and freshly out of blue-collar Brooklyn and secretarial training school, Peggy went to work at the agency as a fresh-faced secretary. Upon arrival, she found herself to be fresh bait swimming naively upstream among sharks. The entitled men in the office swarmed around her, inviting her to lunch in hopes of sexual payback. Those whom she rebuffed proceeded to harass her, making fun of her clothes, her ears, and other aspects of her appearance. If she did not want them, then there is something wrong with her, they concluded.
Joan, reliable office manager and undeniable "Marilyn," took Peggy aside her first day of work and gave her some information to ensure her success as a secretary: the name and number of a doctor who could prescribe birth control pills for her. Peggy obediently went to the doctor and filled her prescription. Unfortunately, before the pills could take effect, she succumbed to the seduction of one of the low-level male employees of the agency, lost her virginity, and became pregnant. She hid her pregnancy from herself and everyone else, ultimately surprising herself by giving birth to a baby she immediately gave away for adoption. Giving the baby away allowed her to return to work, where she had recently been promoted from secretary to "ad man." Her promotion did not win her any friends. She had no comparably situated female cohorts. The secretaries resented her rise in position, as did the male counterparts in her new position.
Of rather average appearance objectively, Peggy went from being considered extremely attractive bait to being considered an unattractive, contemptible character as a result of two things: her refusal to flirt unabashedly with the men in hopes of snagging a husband, and her perceived usurpation of power by rising to a position above her assigned place as a female. Still quite young, she is conflicted about the role she plays at the office, and about the roles she does not play. She enjoys the creative challenges her job brings, and she enjoys the competition in which she is engaged. Nevertheless, she has nagging doubts about who she is as a woman. Will she marry? Will she have a family? Is she even attractive? These conflicted feelings find their way into the discussion of the "there are two kinds of women" ad campaign. "Which one am I?" she asks. "Irene Dunn," her boss Don Draper answers graciously. Neither Madonna or whore, he is saying, but rather she is the long-suffering, reliable, all-American, girl-next-door who has found some success. She is satisfied with that answer, at least for a while, although as time goes on, it becomes clearer to her that if she is indeed Irene Dunn, or simply Peggy, she can be neither Marilyn nor Jackie, and that what she has instead is the result of a trade-off. "You have everything," she tells her male boss, referring not only to his career but to his wife, family, and material success. "I want what you have," she tells him. He responds that she will have it all in time, but neither of the characters nor the audience really believes it. It is painfully obvious to all that "everything" is not available to Peggy as a woman as it is to Don as a man; she will have to choose what she wants most, and once that choice is made, there will be no going back.
In the last season, Joan, advisor to Peggy, muse of all office politics, and the symbolic Marilyn-figure on the show, makes such a choice. Despite having tried to keep her age a secret, it becomes known throughout the office that has passed the age of thirty. With great discretion, she has been sexually involved with several male co-workers, including most notably one of the named partners who later abandoned his middle-aged wife for a lithe young secretary. In a revealing scene, the new wife/former secretary makes an appearance at the office, fully decked out in her marital diamonds and upscale new wardrobe. She and Joan exchange stilted pleasantries, and Joan silently resolves to be the rich young wife herself. She has worked hard and played hard, but she realizes the window is closing on her eligibility for marriage, and she gets serious about finding a husband. She finds a handsome young medical student who is clearly threatened by her position and her relationships within the office, so much so that he rapes her on the floor of her boss's office after work hours one day. Nevertheless, Joan considers him prime marriage material and proceeds to marry him, counting on him as a doctor to elevate her social standing and provide a luxurious home for her. She quits work with much fanfare, as was the custom of the day, to be a homemaker for her successful husband.
Joan's handsome husband turns out to be quite a disappointment, however. He is not offered a position after his medical residency ends, and he orders her to go back to work. Too prideful to go back to the ad agency, she manages the dress department at an upscale New York store, claiming when she is spotted by a former coworker that she is simply filling in for a friend who needed her help. She cannot let on that her financial situation is dire, as that would indicate that her husband and marriage are failures. She has too much pride and probably feels too much loyalty to her disappointment of a husband to leave anyone with such an impression. She cannot allow him to appear to be a failure, as that would mean she too is a failure, as she has surrendered her own identity to accept his. Nevertheless, she cannot escape the feeling and the financial reality that she may have made the wrong choice.
Perhaps the female character most plagued by her plight, however, is Betty, Don's wife and the show's "Jackie," or Grace Kelly, as she is described by Don's partner. She is young, blonde, slim, beautiful, educated, and accomplished. An anthropology major at Bryn Muar, she lived in Manhattan and worked as a model after graduation. "Daddy's little girl," she married the mysterious, dark, handsome Don Draper against her father's wishes. They have two children, a girl and a boy close in age (and in Season 3 a "bonus" third child, a boy), and live in a beautiful home in a nice, neat suburb, where Betty manages her house and children with the assistance of her African-American maid, Carla. The typical suburban housewife described by Betty Friedan, Betty Draper has the problem that has no name. She has no close friends, only neighbors and fellow social club members who pretend for each other that their lives are perfect. Isolated within her nuclear family, she has no real intimacy with her husband, who is distant emotionally and often physically. She herself appears cold and detached, pleased by nothing and no one unless she is being complimented on her appearance, her home, or her children. She is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.
In the first season, Betty experiences psychosomatic symptoms, uncontrollable tremors and use of her hands. At Don's insistence, she seeks psychiatric treatment for the problem after having a discussion with Don in which he asks her, "Aren't you happy?" "Of course," she replied, "Look at all this. How could I not be happy?" This question does not appear to be rhetorical but a legitimate inquiry.
When Betty visits the psychiatrist, he (male, of course) sits behind Betty as she lies on the couch and listens without speaking in classic psychoanalytic fashion. Without ever conversing with Betty, the doctor confides to Don over the telephone that his wife Betty is an extremely anxious young woman. Betty overhears the phone conversation and appears completely dejected. It is becoming painfully obvious to her that she has completely lost her identity, even her personhood to the extent that her own doctor does not reveal her diagnosis to her but only to her husband. In the days of HIPPA, this behavior is downright outrageous. In Betty's day, however, it is apparently status quo. Anxious young housewives cannot be addressed directly as intelligent persons responsible for their own health; rather, they must be patronized, controlled, and medicated. "Mother's Little Helper" is prescribed, and the wine flows freely as she tries to dull her senses and get through her lonely days and nights.
As the characters evolve, Betty in season two is shown wearing a lovely yellow two-piece bathing suit on a summer morning as she prepares to take her children to the pool. She bought the suit at a country club fashion show to which the Drapers had been invited as prospective members. She was left alone there by her husband on the Fourth of July so that he could find more stimulating entertainment with his mistress. She came away from the club with the suit, and one can imagine she bought it as a sort of "retail therapy" after being abandoned. When Don saw her in it as she fed her children breakfast, he called her aside and told her in no uncertain terms that she looked like a whore. He ordered her to change immediately into something more modest, then stalked off to work. Betty is left standing alone in the dining room, clutching her robe closed around her bikini, feeling ashamed and humiliated. As "Jackie," she is not allowed to be "Marilyn," at least not in public. By appearing in the bikini, she would have been transgressing her role as Madonna and appearing, at least in Don's eye, as a whore. Her role was much too narrow to allow such breadth of expression. She sinks further into her malaise.
By season three, Betty has found an answer to her problem with no name, although she has yet to name the problem. She is romanced by another man and ultimately leaves home with him. At the time she made the decision known, she had only spent a handful of minutes in his presence. They knew each other barely at all. Nevertheless, the only option she seemed to have for escape her misery was to escape into the arms of another man who promised and appeared capable of keeping his promise to provide for her and her children.
Like Joan and Peggy, Betty seems to sense that her window of attractiveness is closing, and she better make a move fast if she does not want to be stuck forever, bereft of her youth and beauty. This sense of urgency, perhaps mistaken or referred to often as the awareness of a ticking biological clock, seems to be unique to the female characters. While the male characters are also focused on maximizing opportunities for betterment, those opportunities do not seem to be dependent on youth or physical appearance. However, "Marilyn," "Jackie," and "Irene Dunn," regardless of their differences, all have that in common. They are all afraid that they will have no identity, no real worth, unless they assume the identity of a man. Their fear is culturally conditioned and condoned. It is interesting to consider, over forty-five years later, how much of that fear is still present, and how much, or little, of the cultural conditioning has changed.

Online auction of Mad Men items!

Check this out...auction ends August 22nd and all proceeds benefit the Lung Cancer Program at California's City of Hope.

http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2010/08/dresses_worn_by_betty_draper_a.html?mid=fashion-alert--20100813

Marchall Allman (Suzanne's bro) on woriking on MM

"You were on Mad Men as Miss Farrell's brother. Whenever I interview a woman who was on Mad Men, they rave about the clothes. You're a guy, though, and your wardrobe on the show was...
I was like the worst wardrobe in the history of that show! I was like the first semi-homeless person to be on Mad Men. I didn't get to experience the slinky clothes at all, my sister on the show did not have a swanky apartment...about the swankiest thing I got to do was sit on Don Draper's leather seats in his swanky little Lincoln. But I can't say enough about working with Jon Hamm, I had a blast. Working with Matthew Weiner, he was great. I feel like we really got along because I'm someone who really loves to be neurotic about my work, so when I meet someone else who's also equally as attentive to detail, it's like a joy for me.

There's a funny story he remembered when I saw him the other month...it was like the night before we were shooting and I had a question, but it was nine o'clock at night. I was kinda like, "Well, whatever, I'll just call the production office and see if a writer's around." So I called the production office and this guy answers, and he's like, "Uh, hello?" And I'm like, "Matthew?" And he's like, "Yeah?" "What the hell are you doing answering the phones, man?" And he was like, "Who's this?" And I said, "It's Marshall Allman, I'm playing [Miss Farrell's] brother." And he said, "Oh, hey man." I couldn't believe it, and then me and Matthew Weiner ended up talking for forty-five minutes until ten o'clock at night about the character. It was great, man. I'd be really excited to go back, but that hasn't happened yet, so we'll see."

Elizabeth Moss and Husband of 10 Months Split

Just read this on Popeater. Wow, they made it only 10 months. They say they will still be friends. A common statement but...

Yikes! THe Mad Men Spoof Emmy commercial has been yanked...

"Favoritism"?

Gah...

http://elisesramblings.blogspot.com/2010/08/jimmy-fallon-hosts-emmys-aug-29.html

Jimmy Fallons mad men Emmy ad

Have you all seen the Jimmy Fallon Mad Men spoof emmy ad. Looks like it's being pulled, because the competition feels it give MM an unfair advantage.
http://elisesramblings.blogspot.com/2010/08/jimmy-fallon-hosts-emmys-aug-29.html

I Need Help

Hello Mad Men Addicts-I need some advice. Was talking to my sister the other day-(She was the one who turned me onto MM.) She has not been happy so far with the way Season 4 is going-the way Don is acting-drunk, the quickie with Allison etc. She is starting to lose interest. I did tell her to hang in there. She likes the action in the office and feels there hasn't been enough of that. I told her to hang in there. I feel things are going to improve with the show, Don etc.

Any suggestions????

Thanks.

Season 4 Episode 3 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 4, Episode 3, "The Good News."

Sally and the Self-Immolating Monk

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/08/mad_men_on_acid_slideshow.html#photo=5x57049

I wouldn't have posted with this if I didn't see the reference on this link. I'm wondering if anyone else was around Sally's age when the monk-incident happened, and if unlike other kids, it turned you off Eastern religions, up to and including the Beatles when they traveled to India?

(Question isn't to provoke. I just adore the early 60's and would give anything to go back to before, well, Rubber Soul.)

intro music.. NOT RJD2!

Every single episode starts with the narrator, "previously, on amc's mad men" what the hell is the name of the song thats playing while it recaps past events on the show!?
its drums and piano and its absolutely brilliant, please for the love of god email me the song or post the name here. Thank you. Disabledthinker@hotmail.com

John Slattery on Directing His First Episode of Mad Men

John Slattery directs this week's episode:

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/08/john_slattery_on_directing_his.html?mid=agenda--20100812

Season 4/Episode 4 Opening Scene Predictions

The very opening scene including characters & location....

Which Mad Men Character Will Drop Acid First?

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/08/mad_men_on_acid_slideshow.html

The Back Story Mystery

Based on the events of the back story, Dick Whitman being born in 1926 and Adam in 1936, seemed right to me. In 1962, "Don" twice reveals that he is 36. According to Pete's research, the real Don Draper would have been 45 in 1962. Also, the photo of Dick and Adam in 1944 that has been shown several times backs up that conclusion. In that photo, Adam appears to be about eight years old. Poster imaginethat's reference that Dick was about ten years old when his father was affected by the Allotment Act of 1936, helps to confirm this conclusion.

However, Adam clearly states that he was only eight years old in 1950, when he spotted Dick on the train. That would mean that Adam was born in 1942, and Dick in 1932. Adam would have only been two years old in that 1944 photo. This does not make sense, but how can it be explained?

It is clear to me that this apparent discrepancy is not an error in the creation of the story. The focus on the 1944 photo and Adam's words both seem so deliberate.

Could the explanation be related to a distortion of reality caused by a major trauma in Don's past?

I believe that we still have much to learn about Don's past life as Dick Whitman. The revelation of the switched identity was only the "tip of the iceberg".

Who is Don Draper?

It's safe to say he's floundering a little ... or maybe a lot. Professionally, he's still the man for now, but personally, he is struggling. He seems to have lost some of his mystique, and some of his cool, musky charm. He is trying to be the same, aloof, lay-it-on-smooth-with-the-ladies kind of guy, but it doesn't seem to be working for him anymore. Maybe he's trying too hard.

In the past, he never seemed to look for women; they found him. He rarely initiated contact. Women flocked to him. Remember the stewardess from the first episode of season three? Rachel Menken, who took him up on the roof of her store? Or Suzanne, Sally's teacher, who called his house with a drink in her hand, obviously hoping he would answer. What about the Asian cocktail waitress he attracted in the bar after his meeting with the Mohawk Airlines representative? Or the women down the bar from him and Roger the night Roger invited himself to dinner? This list is certainly not all inclusive.

Today's Don Draper finds himself in a much different situation. He is actually having to look for women to show interest in him, and they don't seem to be there. Let's look at all the women who have rejected him in the past three episodes:

Most recently, it was Anna Draper's college-aged niece Stephanie who decidedly rejected his advances. Anna seemed to be trying to set Don and Stephanie up, but the girl seemed to think Don was a hopelessly old-fashioned dope, not to be confused with the dope they were smoking.

In the previous Christmas episode (note the movement through the holidays: first Thanksgiving, then Christmas, now New Year's), Don ignored his cute little nurse neighbor in the a.m., but by the p.m. needed her to help him inside his apartment and into bed. She politely declined his offer to get in bed with him, telling him her father had been a drunk. Ouch.

We saw a glimmer of hope for him with the psychologist, who was attractive, intelligent, and seemed interested in and worthy of him. However, what we learned was that she was looking for substance, and it seemed clear to her that she was not going to get that from Don, at least not anytime soon. She followed him into his office, away from the Christmas party, not to "flirt" with him, as he suggested, but rather to express to him her disappointment with him. Double ouch.

Don finally does get lucky that night, but not with someone new. Rather, he succeeds in seducing his secretary, which says a lot. First, it shows how far he's fallen. Allison is a beautiful, seemingly intelligent girl, but he has worked around her for years (she started out as the receptionist at Sterling Cooper). In fact, he has worked around plenty of beautiful female employees, but he never fished from that pond. A man like Don reaching for his secretary? It is a cliche. It is like deer hunting with a spotlight in a fenced green field. (Yes, I am from Bullock County, Alabama, where that analogy is perfectly understood.) The fact that he would be so hard up as to seduce his own secretary, who in her subordinate position is puddy in his hand, and with whom he clearly has no interest in a long-term relationship, is enough to make you want to shield your eyes.

This latest episode shows him dropping all pretense and going straight for hired help, but not from the secretarial pool. He hires hookers for both him and Lane, and his hooker is clearly a regular.

What does it say that a man like Don who effortlessly had women swooning over him in the first three seasons is in such a predicament now? I think it says several things:

1. Divorce is tough on a man, even when the woman you are getting away from is as unsubstantial and cold-hearted as Betty Draper. Forget the heartbreak factor -- your whole role in life has changed. Where does a man get the confidence and charm that dripped from the pre-divorce Don Draper's persona? From the fact that he has made it. He has it all: the trophy wife, the 2.5 children, the house in the burbs, the car, the job, the cash, the looks, .... Now he doesn't have it all. He only has the professional life, which is only half (at best) of the equation. With that comes uncertainty, and with uncertainty goes confidence, and with confidence goes mystique and much of the "cool" factor that Don so expertly exhibited. It's not to say he cannot recover. He may still be climbing the mountain, but his footing is a little less certain. We see him resorting to behaviors he never would have resorted to before: Calling Peggy "sweetheart?" Making plays on young girls? Fishing from the secretarial pond? Teasingly suggesting to a colleague (the psychologist) that she was flirting with him? Calling on call girls? Habitually? Getting plastered so routinely that he cannot seem to let himself in his own apartment two nights in a row? Yikes. This is the man who matched Roger drink for drink, oyster for oyster, walked up 20+ flights of stairs, and then coolly met with clients while Roger puked on the office carpet. He is not a character whom we have seen get drunk, even as much as we have seen him drink. This is not the pre-divorced Don Draper, but all is not lost. Growing pains are painful. You have to wander in the wilderness before you see the promised land. I predict we will ultimately see Don emerge as a more integrated person.

2. Holidays are especially tough on the newly divorced, and the writers seem to be very intentionally focusing on the holidays so far, emphasizing that point. The season starts out on Thanksgiving, fast forwards four weeks in one to Christmas, and then hovers around New Year's Day, with Don already looking forward to Easter, suggesting to Anna that he might bring the kids out then. More than a convenient artifice for the passage of time in a series, the holidays are especially significant, although not welcoming, for Don this year. How much of the excessive behavior is due to the holiday angst? We will see what Valentine's Day brings. News of Anna's death?

3. Culturally, the times really are changing. The writers are doing a fantastic job of showing the gradual change from the late fifties to the mid sixties, and I believe part of Don's problem is that he is a man of the fifties who is not necessarily translating well to the new generation. He may be able to keep his pulse on the heartbeat of advertising, and he will undoubtedly continue to be professionally quite the visionary. Personally, though, he will continue to be at some level in tension with the changing times. Cool mystique may be timelessly glamorous to some on some level, but openness and authenticity becomes increasingly important as the decade advances. Boozing and schmoozing with the corporate world becomes less and less hip. We have seen this development foreshadowed in season one with Midge as her Village friends hurled accusations at Don. We saw it later with the two hitch-hikers Don picked up who were running from the draft. We saw it Sunday night with Stephanie, the Berkley student. Despite his inability to maintain the trophy wife, the 2.5 kids, and the house in the burbs, Don, like his drink of choice, may ultimately be old-fashioned, and old-fashioned is not hip in 1965.

'Mad Men' Charity Auction For Lung Cancer Research

http://stylenews.peoplestylewatch.com/2010/08/11/bid-on-dresses-from-mad-men-to-benefit-lung-cancer-research/

http://stores.ebay.com/celebritycharityauctions/pages/mad-men

One of us lucky Maddicts could buy Joan's blood-splattered lawnmower scene dress! The auctions aren't up yet, but it says they will be starting tonight at 7 PM Pacific/10 PM Eastern.

Don's finances

Perhaps this has been explained (or at least debated) before, but how did Don financially support Anna in the early years? Don hasn't always bee a high rolling ad executive, and when he met Betty some time after coming clean to Anna, he was a mere in-house copywriter for a furrier. Such a job would probably pay little; certainly not enough to pay for his, Anna's and eventually Betty's lifestyles.

The letters come first

It's always cool when Dick visits California. It provides a nice break in characters and setting. This time he graces the screen in his rented '64 Imperial convertible. There's even a photo of him driving the Imperial in the photo gallery.

I hesitated to even bring this up, but on a show that prides itself on detail and is usually dead on, there is one thing that I noticed: In late 1964, all cars in California wore the now legendary (in gearhead circles) 1963 issue yellow on black license plates.

Dick's Imperial has the black plates, but the numbers come first (150 NKA). On the real black plates, the letters came first (NKA 150). I also saw the same reversal on Anna's sister's Chevy Nova (?) wagon.

There is also geographic and time relevance to the first letter of the plate, but that sort of minutae is best left for discussion in the black plate nerdery chat room.

Beatlemania

OK so New York in 1964 was anglophilic ( at least the romanticized retrospect seems that way) I wasn't there. I've seen the black and white footage, young girls going mad, middle aged men walking down Broadway with Beatle Wigs on their heads. Radio DJ Murray the K reporting from the epicenter of the explosion that was the arrival of the Beatles at JFK on Feb 7 , 1964. Culturally speaking many look to this moment as being the American cultural equivalent to Dorothy stepping out of the black and white frames of her Kansas life in to the day glo world of OZ. Certainly the subsequent shockwaves would have made their way in to the drawing rooms of Madison Avenue ( even Disney's The Jungle Book featured a trio of scouser moptop vultures from that landmark year) Yet the event seems to be largely irrelevent to SCDP other than Don sending his sexcretary for some Christmas Beatle 45's (BTW I think she is a hottie). I know MW doesn't like to be predictable and he certainly doesn't want to pour over the tired litany of 60's landmark moments in "Wonder Years" fashion, and I really don't want to see the world we are invited into each week devolve into a swirling acid drip parody of the sixties. Just interested in anyone's thought on the way the British invasion was perceived by the adult world of the time and if there should have been more references to the happening? Not that it really matters but being a Beatle fan I thought I might have seen a collerless jacket or some fringed bangs bopping around New York somewhere. It seems Dylan was more on the culturally astute New Yorkers minds at the time.

Interesting interview with Elaine Carroll (Lane's "date")

http://ucbcomedy.blogspot.com/2010/08/ucbs-elaine-carroll-on-mad-men.html

Speculation: "Chrysanthemum and the Sword"

I read somewhere that this episode (Show #5) is about a conflict on whether SCDP should take on a Japanese clinet..That reminded me of a great book by Advertising Great Jerry Della Femina called "From the Wonderful Folks Who Gave You Pearl Harbor" The title comes from a story that Jerry tells about a group of his co-workers trying to brainstorm on ways to promote Panasonic and he jumped in with this line or order to break up their writers block.

New accents.

I heard recently that there are some people who start talking with different accents after some sort of trauma. There are even people who start talking with an accent and with a different regular vocabulary. "Elevator" as "lift" - that sort of things.

I myself am working on my Cockney chimneysweep I am I am. :)

I start law school in a week. Wish me luck. I'm reviewing "I'm Just a Bill" right now.

Doesn't Allison deserve a last name?

If the writers can give a last name to Peggy's puppy-dog boyfriend Mark (Kerney), to Peggy's motherly secretary Olive (Healy), or to Don's Barbizon date Bethany (Van Nuys), why can't Allison have one?

I think of Van Nuys as an airport, so how about Allison Edwards, for the air force base?

And if Hildy comes back, how about a last name for her, too? I vote for Andrews (for another AIr Force Base).

Don's angels of Mercy

One thing I gave noticed is that despite the downward spiral of Don , there are women looking out for him such as Anna, Peggy and Allison (may be not so much).

Funny blog: Pete's B****face

http://petecampbellsbitchface.tumblr.com/

Numerous pics of Pete looking like he either ate a lemon or has a stick firmly lodged someplace. Hilarious.

Anna - do you think she knows she's dying?

I say yes. She knows her sister wants to think she (Anna) doesn't so she's playing along, and she didn't want to tell Dick.

More Roger Sterling...

please?

The return of men's hats

According to this article from the WSJ, young men are wearing hats again! I've always felt a tad jealous for the days when men wore them, everyday, and knew how to wear them. What say you? Are we happy with hats making a come back?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703748904575411874109848424.html?mod=WSJ_myyahoo_module

Fulfillment

It's just occurred to me how very few of the women in MadMen seem completely fulfilled whether it be marriage, children or career. Is fulfillment an illusion and a pointless goal to aspire to? To me, Peggy seems to be the first to have some kind of fulfillment through her career in advertising, but she now seems to be chasing after something in her personal life. Have Trudy, Joan, Jane and even Betty experienced a sense of fulfillment in their lives? Or is fulfillment an ever-changing elusive state-of-mind that can't be achieved and maintained for a lifetime?

New video preview clip: "The Rejected"

It's a good one! Contains spoilers!

http://www.fancast.com/tv/Mad-Men/95854/1563685505/Sneak-Peek---Episode-4%3A--The-Rejected-/videos

What if Don Draper had a female nemesis

Picture this: Don Draper, the wunderkind of the advertising world has a few failures. This rattles him as advertising is all he knows. He begins to doubt himself. The partners panick and come up with an idea to bring some fresh blood into the mix. First, they send Don out to California on business. ThentThey settle on an upcoming star, someone who only goes by initials but who is widely sought after. After setting up an interview, they all plan to wine and dine this new whiz kid, replete with a night of boozing and, of course hookers, all to follow after the interview. Enter a striking young woman, a Gloria Steinem type wearing of all things, a pants suit (Katherine Hepburn). All shocked, she announces she is indeed the one they called, and produces her portfolio. And she has a healthy client list.. That evening at dinner, Pete or Henry, who was away during the meeting, shows up with some girls, including one for the new guy. Funny awkward moment, one that this woman is used to. When Don gets back, he has his first encounter with her. It's a one-sided love-hate relationship as Don is drawn to her but not visa-vesa. She respects his work, but not him. She had the chance ot marry but had misgivings and decided on a career. Now in her alte 20s, or early 30s, she read Betty Friedan's Feminine Mystique in 1983 and knew she made the right decision. Don chases her but she ignores his advances. The one time they do sleep togheter, he wakes up to an empty room. She says nothing about the encounter that day (ignorning it as business much the way he ignored his secretary he seduced then forgot). When he shows up at her apartment one night, drunk, she reduces him to size, possibly telling him she found him disappointing. Whehter or not this is true is up to the writers. She's an archetype of the up-and-coming feminist which draws Peggy close to her as a follower and hence creates conflicts with Don, who is her mentor. Joan, who has all the tools to do an equally excellent job in advertising but who chose another path has trouble with her but is secretly admiring her. This story line mirrors the times and could add some real sizzle to the story line.

Real Vacations! Old School Style

Hi all, something that has always amazed me about this show and its focus on getting things right is how the characters, when on vacation, or even just home after work is how out of touch they are when they're off work. In today's world we all take our work home with us to a certain extent. anyone who owns a blackberry knows what I mean. I find it so great that when people would take time off they really were OFF. No contact, no cell phones, no emails, or pages. How great that would be today.

Season 4 Episode 3 - Favorite Quotes

Got a favorite line from Episode 3, "The Good News"? Post it below, including the character who said it, and it might end up on the character's profile page and the episode page on the Mad Men website.

Ratings Plunge? How do you watch?

I read the Reuters article this morning that says MM viewing has dropped 24% in the first 3 episodes and they attribute part of that to HBOs True Blood, Entourage and Hung.

How do they know that? Surely in this technology age the "people" in charge of that thing have heard of TiVo and DVR? I would hate to see AMC cancel Mad Men due to some upper mucky mucks who aren't with the program. I personally never watch it live....I don't do commercials....I always record it. I know several people who watch it on their computers or iPhones.

How do you watch Mad Men? What do you think about the antiquated way of counting viewers affecting the continuation of the best show on television in 10 years?
Just curious.

If you love Sally....

I feel Sally is one of the most interesting characters in the series. Like all of us, I hope MM continues for a long time, and I want to see how Sally develops. I have felt since Season 3 that she would be the one character who fully embraces the counter-culture that's coming; she could become an activist, hippie, dabble in drugs, etc. She desperately needs attention and a place to carve out an identity for herself. This is a wonderful interview with a very smart young actress:

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/08/mad-men-sally.html?loc=interstitialskip

I don't miss Sal.

This is in response to the sporadic replies I've been seeing in many threads about how much people miss Salvatore Romano.

Weill I for one DO NOT miss Sal.

While a character whose struggles definitely tugged at the heartstrings, I don't want to see him as a part of the SCDP team.

During the Sterling Coope ryears, Sal hiding in the closet totally got in the way of him being truly creative, bold, and perhaps even progressive in his artwork. His highly contrived efforts to blend in via overt actions of what was office masculinity back then probably made him even more staid and traditional in terms of the industry.

Now, that's ASSUMING Sal had anything to actually offer advertising for the new events currently unfolding in the Mad Men timeline ! I'm sorry if I call out some of you Sal sympathizers, but people seem to really give him a break because he's forced to live in the closet for fear of being oppressed and persecuted. Those are all bad and unjust things, yes, but that doesn't make him a superstar Artist. So far as I can recall, his output during S1 and S2 as the Art Director wasn't anything spectacular.

He did seem to shine in film direction though.

(a close facsimile of a reply I posted in another forum)

What AMC should do to get this site working the way we like it!!!

There have been some changes to the operation of the site this season. Some things we like, some we don't...any suggestions that they hopefully read!!

Music Sound-a-likes of 1965

Anyone else hear the background music at the joint that Don, Anna and Stephanie were at, and thought-- hey, 'Catch A Wave' by the Beach Boys!-- only to learn it was 'Sidewalk Surfin'' by Jan and Dean? I was fooled. Again. But then it got me thinking about other songs from 1965 that could cause serious double-takes... notably 'Lies' by the Knickerbockers, a very good Beatles-sounding record http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M&a=T4LKZeIRjNo&playnext_from=ML and Barry Young's "One Has My Name," which sounded like it could have been a Dean Martin single http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhCsSVngn9o&feature=related
Check 'em out for a splash of 1965 black and white!

Don's Time Warp

In the thread about the real Don Draper, the talk turned family size in the past, and how this was balanced out by infant mortality and death in childbirth. Don's mom died in childbirth, as did Rachel's, and Don's stepmother didn't have a living child till Adam.

We also hear about polo. There were epidemic waves of it from the 30's-50's. Anna survived it. In the second episode of Season 1 (Sally's birthday) we see a child with crutches. We're told he got polo just before the vaccine came out. In fact, children got and died from a lot of diseases: measles, mumps, whopping cough.....

This, combined with the fact that Don was raised on a backwoods farm really gives me an appreciation for how the series reminds us that Don went through something very like a time tunnel from 19th century America (30's & 40's) to 20th century America (50's & 60's).

How strange it must have seemed to someone like Don to find himself suddenly in the 60's, living with modern art and architecture, appliances, vaccines, cars and rockets, and children (and moms) surviving childbirth and childhood.

mad men

how is Anna related to Don

I'm so sad about this episode...I haven't combed my hair in 3 days

I'm so sad about this episode, I........
You finish it.

Why we need Betty

This critic misses Betty! Do you agree? Disagree?

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/why_we_need_betty_WthR4alDwzI09sXcrLuHRP

Q&A

Anyone know how the Q&A feature on this site works? How do you send in a question?

ENTERTAINMENT WKLY

There is a great 4-page article on Mad Men in the August 13th copy of Entertainment Weekly.

Who Was Don Draper?

Another Maddict (LonghornPatrick, I believe) on another thread mentioned wondering about the real Don Draper. This question has also crossed my mind on numerous occasions. His widow, Anna, has become a favorite character for many of us viewers, especially knowing how dear she is to Dick Whitman, a.k.a. Don Draper, and how deeply her loss will be felt by him.

What little we know of the late Don Draper was supplied by Anna, and Dick's memory of that fateful day in Korea. I don't recall that their joint memories conjured up a very likable man. Some of us are convinced he was an unfaithful husband who may have treated Anna unkindly. Certainly he did not come across as a very warm individual to Dick, but then, it was wartime, and he was a soldier under stress.

So, who was he, and did he leave behind other relatives and/or friends who might some day appear on Dick/Don's doorstep demanding answers? I can certainly understand someone from Anna's past, upon hearing of her death, talking to her sister and learning of Dick Whitman's kindness to Anna over the years. That person might very well start to wonder "Who is Dick Whitman?" and begin looking for him. How well does Dick/Don cover his trail travelling to California and back when he visits Anna? Certainly as the faux Don Draper's fame in the advertising world spreads, wouldn't there be someone who might remember another Don Draper and get curious?

With Anna's death imminent, I suppose we will never become more acquainted with the late Don Draper than we are at present, but he will certainly always have a place among those fleeting Mad Men characters I wish we could have gotten to know just a little bit better.

What if Dick Whittman....

What if Don marries Anna as Dick Whittman?

We had the psych woman at the Christmas party last words to Don: "You''ll be married within a year, you're the type".

Don is real, real lost right now. Hiring hookers, sleeping with his secretary when he never dabbles in the office. He's desperate. He needs something to live for.

He did in fact sign his name on a contract with Anna when he signed her wall.

Bringing the kids out to meet her?

Last season he tried to be responsible with and toward Betty, but with no reciprocation he quit. Maybe take 2 of that idea with him is coming.

In the previews we see Don opens a package with a Polaroid of himself an Anna, standing almost like the wedding cake couple. I say that because there have been jokes before about Don the guy on top of wedding cakes.

Don has acted spontaneously irrational before. Wanting to run off with Rachel Menkin after Pete busted him for example. Did you see the looks on his face between when he found out about her until he left? It's the most affected we've ever seen him. Add that to his not being in a good place right now, sometimes bad desperate decisions get made.

I don't know folks, I think it's a possibility. Imagine that can of worms that will be opened if he does something stupid like that, his issues of illegal identity and everything. Not to mention a reinterpretation of the idea of wearing a dead man's helmet, since he killed Dick Whittman off in Korea.

The German Au Pair (Season 3, Episode 8) and Sal (Episode 9)

I'm new here and am watching the series from the beginning. The episode "Souvenir" includes an accusation by Pete Campbell's next-door neighbor that he (the neighbor) "knew what happened." I don't think I've seen another situation on the series so far where one man confronted another about (heterosexual) sex. The situation became confusing, because Pete Campbell basically admitted...it (rape?) to his wife and treated it almost comically.

In the following episode, Sal is brutally fired without cause (but we get to see Don call him "you people" and jump to conclusions with no basis.

I understand that this is a "period" mini-series. What I don't understand is that one of the two lead male actors commits what seems awfully like rape, and gets away with it; and a gay victim seems to be gone and forgotten.

I'd just like to know what other people think of these issues. Thanks.

1965 Blackout

My parents were living in Queens during the 1965 blackout. My father was working on Madison Ave and my mom was home pregnant with me. My father couldn't get home so he stayed at the office and said it was like a big slumber party.

Was anyone living/working in NYC during blackout?
I wonder if Mad Men would will cover this event. Can you imagine all the trouble the character would get into if the lights go out!

Three MAD Weeks

Three weeks in, the 4th season of Mad Men is shaping up to be another very compelling one (did you expect it any other way?). As Bob Dylan says, "The times/they are a-changin...".

1964 wasn't good for anybody, and 1965 is going to get worse before it gets better; that much, we know from history. But it is truly fascinating to see how all of the characters we've come to know and love are evolving with this. Matt Weiner said this season would be all about the question: "Who am I?", quite obviously stated at the outset of Episode 1: "Public Relations". So far, we're starting to see that in not just Don (who's self-discovery is taking his life decisions from bad to worse); we're also seeing it in Joan (welcome back!), Lane Pryce, and to a limited extent, Betty and Peggy.

But mostly Don. Oh Don. I try very hard to defend you, because I empathize greatly with how you were treated by Betty, and how you are generally treated by people who don't get you. But come on, man, you make it really difficult, when you sleep with your secretary and then treat her like it never happened. That was just low. And am I sensing that Mr. Draper will need some help from Freddy Rumsen's AA experience in the near future? Alcoholism is a long-running Mad Men theme, afterall...

I have to talk about music a bit too. Mad Men has been all about classic music cues up until now. We've only heard tunes playing over the credits that our characters themselves would be listening to (with the exception of Dylan's "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" in Season 1's finale). But that all changed in the awesome final moments of Episode 1 of this season, with the thundering, British invasion sound of "Tobacco Road" playing as Don talked to the WSJ reporter - it gave me chills, in all the best ways. Music was so influential in everything that changed in the '60s, and I am so glad to see the show's soundtrack is evolving equivalently. How long before we hear from a certain 4 lads from Liverpool?

I'll leave you with a few quotes from this week's episode, "The Good News", that really set the tone for everything going on, and looking at what's to come. The writing on this show is what really makes it special - heck, last year's Emmy writing in a drama category featured 3 Mad Men episodes vs. 2 other shows! These lines really moved me this week:

Don: "I could tell the minute she knew who I really was, she never wanted to look at me again." - That's the most honest thing said on this show so far.

Stephanie:"Nobody knows what's wrong with themselves, and everyone else can see it right away." - I really loved this. It's true not only about the Mad Men characters, but in life in general.

Lane: "I understand that all men are dizzy and powerless to refuse but consider me the exception!" - It was quite awesome, albeit sexist, to see him "immune" to Joan's irresistible charm. What a guy!

Greg: "I can't fix everything, but I can fix this." - Well said, Dr. Death Wish, well said. He might be stupid enough to fly off to Vietnam, but he said something here that's the pulse for what all of these characters are going to realize eventually.

Don's Look at the end of Episode # 3

Hey all,

Did anyone catch the strange look on Don's face at the end of the episode ? I think it was right after Joanie said "Are we ready to start 1965 ?"
What was that about ? Any ideas ?

Did Anna Confide The Whole Story To Her Sister?

Or did she just say that Dick Whitman was wounded at the same time when Don was killed and that they were Army buddies? Perhaps she told her sister that Don asked Dick to take care of her if he got killed. But I have the feeling that Anna may have told her more.

Joan, Motherhood and Timing

Joan is soon to be 34 years old (February 1965), and I guess babymaking is obviously on the horizon. I was kind of surprised by this, but caught myself thinking in today's medical possibilities (what's the hurry - she's young), until I realized her age and the lack of medical procedures that would help her if she has problems getting pregnant. Okay then - trying to have a baby as Greg is getting set to be deployed to Vietnam? Being part of a start-up and popping up pregnant in the first couple of years of a new company that she has a fairly major role in? How

If Joan does end up pregnant soon, how is she going to handle work and possibly being alone? If I remember right, I don't even think there were laws protecting women's jobs during maternity leave, and they usually didn't come back once they started having children - at least not for a few years. The timing of this really is quite horrible. Joan could end up being both a widow, a single mother, and unemployed. Tough decisions.....

I think I know why Don was sad at the very end of this episode

OMG Joanie's Hubby 2 look alikes

Is it me or does Joanie's hubby look like Ted Bessell (The dude who played Marlo Thomas' boyfriend/fiancee from That Girl). couldn't find a photo of him but if you google him they sort of look alike. Plus he kind of reminds me of Paul Lynde who played Ann-Margaret's daddy in Bye Bye Birdie" hmmm....

Joan and Lane

I keep coming back to Joan and Lane's disagreement and giving it more thought. What was that all about? What was really going on under the surface? What purpose will it serve in the big picture of Season 4?

Was Joan being friendly or manipulative with the offer of fried chicken? "Breast or thigh?"... hmm, could that perhaps even be a tad bit flirty? Lane made a comment that he knows every other man is dizzy and helpless around Joan, but that he alone is the "incorruptible exception". Really? He seemed fairly corruptible later on in the episode. ;)

Then there's the "egregious" rose debacle...

What does everyone think about the rather dramatic interaction between these two?

Bro-Mad?

Perhaps Don does not need to be attached just yet. Yeah he's a drunk but that whole boys out debauchary is what "The Don" needs to see his evil ways. Roger is married and does not have time for such puerile behavior (may be during the first season right?), Lane is a good friend/co worker for now. But maybe Don needs to hang out with his buddies so he can sort out what exactly he wants. Obviously he needs to hit rock bottom before things start getting better.

Couplehood Mad Men style or the birth of the dink

Yes Dink is a marketing word (double income no kids) Joan and Greg, prime example of a married dink couple but we also gave another example of a dink, Trudy and Pete. Do the kids add more chaos to an already rocky boat or do they create more isolation and coldness a la betty draper francis (i.e. mommy is mad with daddy and mommy wants to occupy her time making cookies for the kids bake sale). Just wondering? Panel?

Season 4, Ep. 3: Why this was a brilliant episode

Long time reader, first time poster. This is the only show I watch regularly, and I've been hooked on this series since the first episode of the first season. Wanted to thank you for all the interesting thoughts, and share a few since there seems to be a few disgruntled fans out there.
I think the reason this episode resonated was because it was so surprising and unpredictable:
1. Who would have ever predicted we'd see a quasi-love-scene between Lane and a prostitute? And that it would be touching?
2. Anna has terminal cancer, and though she's only been featured 2 or 3 times before, I actually wept for her and Don. Don's Earth-mother is dying, and they cannot speak of it. Phenomenal acting job by both.
3. Joan obviously really loves her husband, in spite of all the reasons she has not to.
4. Finn from the Sopranos appears as a stand-up comedian- doesn't mean anything, I just love the little nod to Weiner's past.
5. Don, who spends his life avoiding his past, appears to be becoming an alcoholic, as his father was. We see him drink constantly, yet refuse food often.
6. After last week, Allison is apparently just a secretary again.

One of the strengths of this series, along with its attention to style and authentic detail, its creativity and comic relief, is that it has a huge number of characters whose stories we care about. The writers manage to keep all these balls in the air, and renew our interest each time. What will happen to Don, Joan and Greg, Peggy, Betty, Sally, Pete and Trudy, Freddy, Roger and Jane, Allison, Lane, Anna?

Lane Rocks!

I thought Lane was some fudddy duddy egghead but that scene in the movie theater had me laughing for 10 whole minutes. He provided a true comic relief for what was a sad episode.

Looks like Peggy is going to have a very bad day . . .

Although MW seems to like to structure the preview clips to mislead us, Peggy's three appearances in the end-of-episode 3 clip seem somewhat foreboding:

1) "Your problem is not my problem!" At whom is she snapping? At first I thought it might be Allison, but Don wouldn't tolerate that. The hair color on her target appears wrong for Hildy. Maybe it's her own secretary--can't believe it's Trudy Campbell.

2) "I'm always waiting for someone". Who could that be?

3) "I feel kind of responsible". Did something happen to Freddy, or did Mark take a walk off of a subway platform because she turned down his proposal?

Queen Joan vs. the Peons of the Secretarial Pool

I have to say our Joan really runs the secretarial pool with an iron fist in a velvet glove, as the saying goes. I thought it funny when Joan waltzed out of Lane's office regally proclaiming she would have Megan clean up the mess made with the box of roses....I wonder if Megan got to keep them for her trouble. "Roger is away so I am sending Caroline for some fried chicken for lunch." Did Joan really want the fried chicken or was this just to butter Lane up before she asked for the time off? Did Caroline mind being sent on a chicken run.....did Joan cancel the chicken run after Lane denied her request? Once they bonded over the incompetent Sandy's card faux pas, did Lane approve the time off request? I wish we could get a glimpse once in awhile of the secretaries relaxing in the break room discussing Mrs. Dr. Harris....bet that would be an eye opening discussion. Queen Joan, always so calm, cool and collected.....I love it when her red head's temper breaks through, and she lets someone have it with both barrels.

So who will Don confide in now?

Since it seems like Anna is indeed gone, who will Don be able to confide in now? Peggy? Lane? Roger? Nobody?

Don and the Blue Paint

One of the more symbolic scenes in this weeks episode is Don painting the wall to cover up a past stain while he himself was bare and intimate in his "shorts". It is fitting he should be with Anna for this scene the one person in his life that "Knows everything about him and loves him anyway". Anna is the John to his Paul.. (if any gets that particular Beatles reference...after all it is 1964) allowing him to loosen up and be open with his grey flannel life. And deeper still ... white washing (or rather blue washing) over the ugliness that is bone cancer and the truth about it that is being withheld from Anna. Many ways to look at what I thought was a poignant moment this week. Thoughts anyone???????? (p.s. I always love the convertibles and bossa nova soundtrack in episodes when Don goes on a road trip haha)

Mad Men Game Part 2

Similar to Mad Men A thru Z

Example: I'll say "Bullet Park Road" and then the next player comes up with a Mad men themed reply beginning with the last letter of what the person just posted: ex -- Roger Sterling -- and now the next player has to think of a phrase/word beginning with the letter S.

I'll start:

Sally Draper

Glimpses of Humanity: Don, Greg, Lane

Interesting that in this episode we were given glimpses of how very kind and warm and human all these characters could be. Even Greg, the thoughtless jerk, came through as competent and loving.

You can almost see Don shedding his "Don" skin as he drives down the coast highway transforming into warm and friendly Dick. Greg tosses off that bullying husband exterior and becomes the caring doctor, and Lane drops his buttoned-up British self to exposes his wild interior.

Maybe this was part of the "good news"?

"I can fix this"--What can/can't be fixed

As pointed out in the mirror post, both Don and Greg "fix" things for their "wives." Don paints the ruined wall and Greg stitches up Joan's wound.

But neither of these is a real fix for the real problem. They're the only good news the men have if you like for the situation. "The good news is I can fix that wall..." and "The good news is I can stitch that up...." But saying, "the good news is..." implies bad news. And the bad news is that Don can't repair Anna back to health like painting a wall back to looking new and fresh. And Greg can't repair what Joan is really crying over, their impending separation.

It seems this episode wants us to explore what can and can't be fixed. And the sad realization that the things we really want to fix may not be "fixable." That the bad news sometimes overwhelms the good news. Yet we still want to hear that good news, whatever it is.

What else did you see that can't really be fixed? And what fixes, small and cosmetic and not good enough though they may be, can be made?

anachronism

In the second episode of Season 4 about 31 minues in, we see a 45 rpm single being placed on the record player at the 1964 Christmas party. The record is on the Eric label, which is a re-issue label. Under it is a single on Cameo-Parkway which is correct for the period.

I suspect that someone in the prop department was told to buy some vintage 1964 records and chose them based on the old song titles, not realizing that the one on Eric was released much later on.

Characters I wouldn't mind seeing written out of the show - and those I would like to see more of

Want out:

Don Draper. While I know Don isn't going anywhere anytime soon, I am bored beyond belief by his constant bedroom activities, and his non-stop drinking and smoking. Does the man ever actually work at his job? For a character who was once dark, sexy, mysterious and a bit dangerous, he has degenerated into a stereotype. Yawn.

Lane Pryce. Someone just write a speeding bus (or tractor) into the script. Please. What, we must now go through the break-up of HIS marriage like we're going through Don's? I beg the writers, send that bus!

Joan's husband, the bland and boring doctor. Well, he's going to Vietnam so perhaps the writers will rid us of him there.

Peggy's current boyfriend. Yuck!

Glen Bishop. Mr. Weiner, if Glen needs a job find him something else such as mowing lawns or something. His character is way too creepy and unappealing, IMO. Send him off to a sanitarium or something.

Henry Francis's mother. She only appeared briefly but I found her utterly superfluous and annoying.

Anna Draper's sister. Granted, we have only seen her once in last night's episode, but I hope we see no more of her. She added nothing IMO.
Want More development on the stories of:

Pete (and perhaps Trudy), Peggy, Roger, Betty and Henry, Harry Crane, Ken Cosgrove, and Joan minus the attitude. I wouldn't even mind seeing Paul (the guy with the pipe) return. Hate to see Anna have to go, although she is a more minor character.

Anna's Sister

Well, I'm going to guess that's "the sister with the good leg" that Anna told Don the real Don Draper wanted to marry. And I'm tring to figure out if she knows about the whole Don/Dick thing. I'm sure she would have to. She know's that Don is writing the checks. What say you?

Also, I was disappointed that Don was hitting on Anna's neice. I just found it terribly disrespectable to Anna in light of their whole relationship.

I don't want to see Anna die.

"WHITTLE TINGS TA WUV!!!!"

Season 4, Episode 3, "The Good News."
(In No Particular Order")

1. "You just can't keep your pants on - Can you!!!!"
2. UFO's - Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft.
3. Joan's Luau
4. Hitchhiking, Sit In's & Grass....."The 60's Now Explosion!!!!"
5. "Smoke the Dress"
6. Pencils on the Ceiling
7. The Texas Beltbuckle
8. Throwing the Roses
9. The "Chunky" Bug Brooch
10. Turquoise Walls and Blonde Wood
11. Lane and Don - George and Martha
12. Don Painting in his Boxers
13. Home Suturing - A Doctor in the House
14. "I Had It Coming"
15. Flunking Home Ec.
16. DENUEVE/GODZILLA!!!!!!

Harry and Lane

First of all, what was it exactly Harry was trying to finagle Don into doing in L.A. during his layover between flights? Go to the Brown Derby and do what? Clearly Don was not interested in accommodating him.....

I loved Lane's put down of Harry....."all the fiddling around you've been doing in L.A. this year".....certainly got rid of Harry in a hurry.

Mad Libations

As a historian and dedicated follower of the show, I have always been intrigued by the amount of libations that Roger and the boys enjoy in the office while changing the world of advertising. Roger is a man who enjoys Stoli vodka. Don drinks Canadian Club and other rye whiskey. The cheap Campbell enjoyed J&B because they were clients, and recently has been mixing in Jameson. I believe that the type of spirit that each character drinks is a direct showcase into their personality, a topic that could be analyzed in very much detail.

In season 4 episode 3, Lane receives a bottle of whiskey from his father in London, whom he describes as being a connoisseur. The two drink and Don describes it as having "no bite", which leads me to believe it to be a single malt scotch. That bottle seems to be the kick-start for the liberating day that both ailing men need.

Can anyone help me to find out the type of whiskey that Lane's father sent? I originally was thinking it was from Scotland, which would be Macallan 30yr, or Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban or Lastana. Any other thoughts?

A standing ovation for the writers

I don't know which writer deserves the praise (IMHO), I was very pleased to see what I think may be a statement about the positive use of medical marijuana.
Anna is suffering from one of the most painful cancers, bone cancer. In 32 years as an RN I have cared for patients who have suffered in horrible pain from cancer, even with the medications available today. They also suffer from the side effects from radiation and chemotherapy treatments.
Reputable research today has shown the benefits of medical marijuana not only from the pain assoc. with diseases like cancer, but also from the side effects of treatment.
I found it interesting that Anna was smoking marijuana, and told Don she was feeling good, feeling no pain, and appeared well.
She was a pioneer, and in 1964 she didn't even know it. She was smoking because her niece gave it to her I assume.
It's also interesting that CA is one of the states today in the fight to legalize the use of marijuana for certain medical conditions. And MM is written and filmed in CA.
Maybe I read too much into this, but, I just wanted to share, and get feedback...

Joan at work and home

I was delighted to see more of Joan in this episode. We got to see her loose her cool a couple of times tonight, once in the office and once at home. Of course, she regained her composure quickly in both situations. I found it interesting that she is planning on starting a family when she seems to have difficulty securing two days off from SCDP. Her work seems like such an essential part of her happiness. She doesn't file papers anymore, she hires people to do that for her.
She and Greg appear to be doing well for the moment.; I think she gained some respect for him in this episode.
Now I only have one question - what did Betty do for New Years?

Tears for Anna

Well, I was crying.

Episode3: Bonding and Mirroring

So Don Draper grows a heart. And, subtly, signs a contract.

But before we get into that, to me this episode was about 2 things: Bonding and mirroring.

Don bonding with Anna even deeper than their prior deal. Joan actually bonding with Dr. G with her marriage. Don and Layne bonding.

All three are mirrored in the idea of marriage, like Goldilocks and the porridge: one marriage is over, (too cold), one is in shambles in the process of ending (middle can go either way as we begin), and one is turning upside (surprisingly good news). The over-schooled will draw Greek literature philosophy of everything in moderation, "a bad, a good. and something in between." The 3 bears motif. The ancient Greek philosophy of literature and life. That's what I think bc they've done it before, notably w the 3 parties episode last year.

Starting with Don:

Don has a bond obviously with Anna. He's cared, but he's never been affected. This is the first time we've seen him that affected over a woman. When Pete's dad died Don offered him a drink and to go home. Don, with Anna, actually wants to stay... in her home, unlike his own with Betty. His painting of the wall was just like when in season 2 when he was fixing her chair (after Betty had smashed their chair bc he didn't fix it).

And this is important: He actually signs his name on the wall, in ink, a CONTRACT. He signs his name, in ink, to a woman.

In the end though, he's still Don, with his arm comfortably around his call girl. It's comfortability like a relationship but with no strings. Perfect Don, all middle ground. Not exactly something that we all haven't been there.

Joan and Dr. G: She cuts her hand, and here Dr. G is right on it. And competent. And her Superman. As much as women love Joan bashing his head with the vase, she still needs him to be her Superman. The conflict within us all. We're one thing but still need another. We both men and women have a little Don and Joan in us respectively.

But quite a difference from last year during Guy getting his foot cut off. There, she was the one Dr. G couldn't be in his own life, she was the calm, collected one, taking charge and ruling with common sense over blood. He was the one she found out had bad hands, while she had delicate hands in her time of stress.

Here, very different isn't it. Total direct reference. Here she's in a little blood, and he now has the steady, reassuring hands. He's filling her stereotype that she's generally always wanted. They started out arguing, and end up bonding. Not the first two people. Dr. G even says later, "I can fix this".

Layne: The fish out of water, which seems to be a common theme we see much of. Layne the priss, now Layne one of the locker room boys. The rite of ritual, the "virgin" Layne now initiated as one of the real men via getting laid through the boys will be boys office. Now he's a man.

Most of the women can't get into Don Draper, but one of the boys now is, without much effort on his part and actually more effort on Don's part. One of the general mysteries women scratch their head at when it comes to guy/male bonding vs guy/girl/relationship things. Welcome to the world of men behaving badly, i.e. another theme of Mad Men.

So Layne has the bad marriage now. Another theme of life we see in Layne is that you can only punch a man so much in the face until he eventually leaves.

His wife and his former company did just that. He left his former company, now he at least symbolically is leaving his wife. Did you notice, actually since last year, the slow assimilation of the outside Layne? In the beginning of the episode he's talking about ordering chicken, an American home food staple, and at the end he's all about steak. Hardly tea and crumpets, fish and chips. And of course it ends with what it ends with. Not where Layne started out last year is it?

And did you catch the upbeat music at the very end as Layne walks in the office? Metaphor intended.

Two men who are opposite, and yet come together. Similar to sometimes Don and Peggy (Peggy last week acting the virgin as if to have a past she erases from her mind and acts like it never happened; just like Don has. "This never happened")

An exploration of binding and mirroring, this whole episode.

The 60's business lunches...

As an Ad Agency owner in the 60's we often had 2-3 martini lunches. We would sober up for work after by
inhaling oxygen. You might want to include this in one of your programs.

Little Things to Love about Season 4 Episode 3

1. A polluted Layne
2. Anna's flower on the wall
3. The black dress that Joan wore
4. "Dick and Anna, 1964"
5. The car that Don drove in
6. That wiglet with ringlets that the Peggy look alike hooker was wearing
7. The cheesy little comedy club that Layne and Don were in
8. The faux Lenny Bruce that was there
9. The noisemaker that accompanied Don's drink
10. "I don't know what that means" said the clearly-terrified secretary (forgot what Layne called her) to Joan

Lighting and/or film quality on the sets of Mad Men season 4

When comparing episodes from seasons 1 through 3 to that which I have seen thus far of season 4, it seems to me that either the lightening on the show's sets, or the film being used has changed. Mad Men no longer appears to have that vintage 60's look to me. Yes the characters clothing, hairstyles, etc., and the show's sets are authentic to the era, but as I watch this season's episodes I feel as though I'm watching a light, bright, modern television show, starring characters stuck in a time warp. Older episodes had a dark, smoky, vintage look to them. I honestly felt as though I was being transported back in time as I watched. I don't feel that way at all this season, and I miss it. I wish the producers would return to the older style of filming and lighting Mad Men episodes. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, or if I'm the only one.

Jared Harris Interview: from our local papar

http://www.northjersey.com/arts_entertainment/television/100098104__Mad_Men_s__Shakespearean_star.html

Mad Men commercials

Has anyone else noticed the commercials and teasers are sometimes pronouncing the show's title and time slot as as "Mad MAN, tonight at TAN?"

How many episodes in season 4?

On most lists I have seen, season 4 has only ten episodes. Is this an incomplete list? Or will there in fact be only ten episodes this season? If so, why?

Season 3 watch online?

Is there somewhere I can watch season 3 online?

Joanie and the doctor

This may be a SPOILER for some even though it's an AMC preview: http://www.tvovermind.com/cable/amc/mad-men-amc/sneak-peek-mad-men-4-03-the-good-news/27862