Hokey smokes, Bullwinkle - am I first to post? Woo hoo!

Okay, I'm going with the obvious Halloween costumes for the title characters. Boring, but "who cares?"

We all love this show, except the trolls who are just here to harass those who really do love this show.

I don't like to make predictions because I would be disappointed if I would actually be able to predict what the great writers of Mad Men had in store for us.

Even though Hobo and Gypsy are obviously Halloween costumes, I would hope that this title has a less obvious meaning.

As I said, I generally do not like to make predictions, but I DO NOT predict that Betty will confront Don about what she found in the shoe box inside of the locked desk drawer. After waiting up far past her bedtime to confront Don, Betty lost her momentum or nerve, and put everything back just as she found it, including putting the key back in Don's bathrobe pocket. It was as if "it never happened". I don't know what to make of Betty's expressions at the party...she may very well act on her new found knowledge in the future. Right now, I don't think she has any idea what she will do with the information she has just discovered. Also, I believe that the only information she is aware of is the previous marriage and divorce of her husband, not a previous identity.

Maybe Betty will do a bit more detective work and save the confrontation with Don for Episode 13.

I think this new character “Annabelle” and Roger had something going on or Roger had a crush on her. She’s another beautiful brunette…Don may have already dumped Miss Farrell. If not, he will for Annabelle.

As far as Don’s desk drawer there is no way Betty could have put it back exactly the way it was since she dropped it and I believe that the next time Betty jiggles that drawer it’ll open easily and will only have the ad’s that Don has torn from magazines. Betty doesn’t want to know the truth anyway. She has everything a young married woman was taught they should want. It may be disturbing to her to have this information but I don’t see her ever leaving Don.

I agree. I don't think Betty is going to drop any bombs on Don in this episode.

I don't think the Hobo and the Gypsy are referring to Halloween costumes; I think they're references to Don and the Miss Ferrel (sp?).

I'm still waiting to see what will happen with Peggy and Duck.

MsQuote: I also thought that the Hobo and the Gypsy could refer to Don and Suzanne, but perhaps there will be something more obscure, such as the reference in "The Color Blue"?

Sab: Hmmm...I didn't think of Annabelle and Don. A possibility, but maybe too old for him?

The Hobo and the Gypsy. Maybe it refers to Miss Farrell and her brother, or maybe it is as simple as Halloween costumes. I don't think it refers to Don and MF

Sab4ever, she kicked him out last year when she found he was cheating on her. What makes you think she won't do the same? Betty's moods and actions have gotten worse since season 1 and I think it's bc of all the s&*t her philandering husband puts her through. I think she's had it with him. I hope she confronts him on this episode, bc I think the remaining 2 or 3 episodes will resolve the issue for this season. Now, I don't know how Don will react, I guess it depends on how desparate he feels. If this were the 21st century, they would probably go to marriage counseling. I don't know how commonplace it was in the sixties

Wives kick their husbands out all the time. ...to teach them a lesson...but the guy never learns any lesson and goes right back to the same old tricks. No, I'm not bitter. I'm happily married to my Second Husband. But I see it all of the time. You don't teach him...she's not going to kick him out. He wasn't cheating. He just didn't tell her he got a divorce and owns a house in California.
She has to decide what to do with that information. And Don will remove the paperwork and deny it till the end...DENY, deny, till she imagines she dreamed it.
Looks like we only get two more episodes.

Hi everyone,

I'm guessing that "Hobo and Gypsy" will be a theme that will occur over and over in different ways in episode 11. Is the Halloween costume thing "too obvious"? That just means it might have to get buried in a little insert 20 minutes into the show...

@sab4ever and everyone else: I think Annabelle is strictly going to be a Roger paramour. Some of us thought that Jane would find a younger man and leave Roger, but it might be that Roger will find an older woman and leave Jane. I don't think that these two ever had an affair before, but he obviously fancied her a great deal. I will try not to get too excited about what may happen here, as the way that MW and Co work, it could take ages to develop this story line. Speaking of which, what happened with Peggy and Duck? We're way-ting...

I read on another site that there are actually two more episodes after tomorrow night's "Gypsy and Hobo" episode.

11/1 "The Grownups"

Synopsis: A candidate makes an impression on Don; Peggy's taste in men proves questionable; and Pete faces a major decision about his career.

11/8 "Shut the Door, Take a Seat"

Synopsis: Don has a meeting with Connie; Betty gets some advice; Pete talks to his clients.

They both sound very intriguing....I can't wait....of course, once we have viewed these last three episodes, there will be a long wait for next season....sigh....

I wouldn't be surprised if Don falls for Annabelle, only because they've made her a brunette. BTW, do we know for sure who that actress is? I think it's Michelle Phillips.

Also, I think Betty copied the desk key and made copies of the papers, etc from the box while Carla had the kids out of the house; that's why she said don't come back until dinnertime. She probably had time to contact a lawyer or private investigator.

I think I remember the actress playing Annabelle from way.way back. I used to watch soaps and I think she's the actress who played Sally on "Another World". the adopted daughter of Alice Matthews Frame. Long ago, maybe the late '60's.

Oh my, Alice Matthews Frame - my mother used to call her "weepy old Alice" because the character would burst into tears at the least little thing. My mother worked mornings but would watch Another World and The Doctors between her vacuuming and dinner prep. Thanks for the flashback.

Mambo Deb: Yes it looks and sounds like Michelle Phillips. Oh well, not long now until we find out who.

@rnpen: I also thought Suzanne and her brother could be the gypsy and the hobo, just because spoiler info has this as the last episode for Miss Farrell. Wouldn't it be great if instead of an obsessed stalker, she turns out to be the one that got away.

Could anyone explain what would be the worst case scenario, legally speaking, for Don if his identity is exposed? Does it mean he is completely ruined, does prison time? Could he get his life back? Actually he was a hero at that scene in Korea. So he's Dick Whitman, amazing person.

Mambo Deb...That's one of the things I like about this show. We get to fill in all the blanks anyway we want to...Sometimes we're wrong, but I agree . She should have made copies. I still think that shoe box and all the money will be gone as soon as Don realizes it' been looked into. ( Bad grammar, I know but I'm thinking the way a talk.)

A-line, I agree that maybe Miss Farrell and her brother could be the gypsy and the hobo. Miss Farrell once mentioned having moved around a lot, and obviously her bro doesn't stay in one spot very long, either. Perhaps as with so many MM titles, the gypsy and the hobo refers to multiple meanings. It could be the above, and also the Draper kids' Halloween costumes, and maybe even a third thing we don't expect yet, all at the same time.

Zerelda, thanks for the info on the last 2 eps. I almost laughed at the part that said "Peggy's taste in men proves questionable", 'cause hasn't it always been? Poor Peggy. [sigh]

Mambo Deb, I hope you're right about Betty copying the drawer's contents. My very first thought while watching that scene about her statement to Carla re: keeping the kids out for a few hours was assuming she was so upset and didn't want them to see/hear her cry. Maybe Betty could've taken photographs of the drawer's contents, if she was too distraught to do anything else and didn't want to take the items out of the house (understandable). A photo would also allow her to document the big stack of cash.

Hi all... am so enjoying everones riffs and insights...

A-line.... given what we the audience now knows....the worst case scenario for Don would be that the army finds out he has 1) impersonated an officer and 2) technically deserted in time of war. Both are huge military no-nos, and I believe it was Ritt who some days ago mentioned Leavenworth (a serious military prison) in this connection.

Now this is far-fetched in the extreme -- and IMO would never happen in this show

@Zerelda: Do you know whatever happened to the Episode "The Silo"? That sounded VERY intriguing.

"Shut the Door, Take a Seat" sounds extremely ominous to me. If I heard those words in a job situation, I'd figure my pink slip was waiting.

I'm wondering: have we seen the last of the roommate scenario for Peggy? That could have made for a good few minutes within an episode, but it seems to have been abruptly dropped.

@bluegirl, interesting about multiple meanings.
MelbaToast - Thx for info. Aside from the military repercussions, there's the humiliation and loss of reputation for Don. Yet Cooper wasn't even surprised when Pete exposed Don as a fraud, didn't he say "So what?" He protected him, and I wonder if he could do it again - he's more concerned about Don's value to SC than any sins he's committed.

I have already told I'm wrong, but I still think that the actress playing Annabelle is Clint Eastwood's old flame, Francis Fisher.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800019503/photo/518076

@Adamx: I do see the resemblance.

Wasthere, I read somewhere (IMDB probably) that "The Silo" was the original title for Episode 13. I thought it sounded very intriguing too. Hinting at something about Don's childhood on the farm....

I agree with egyptbelle that "shut the door" sounds like somebody is getting fired. Good point about Peggy's moving to Manhattan, Karen Erickson, etc. I really want to know what's happening with that!

Adamx6000, although I do see a facial resemblance from your pic, I think Annabelle is much prettier and looks younger than Frances Fisher. Maybe it could be her if she had some work done?

New Yahoo Group - see front page for details.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/sterlingcooper/

I think Annabelle is Deborah Van Valkenburg

http://images.google.com/images?q=deborah+van+valkenburg&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=jqrjSqfHIIj8tAO-9tS6Aw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQsAQwAA

Better pics of her here:
http://www.timem.com/starwebs/deborahvanvalkenburgh/gallery/gallery.htm

@Adamx6000: I don't see Francis Fisher as Annabelle, myself, but there is a certain gravelly something to her voice there. Perhaps that's what reminds you of her.

Thank you Zab. We were posting at about the same time. As usual, you found the real skinny. I'm going to have to read her filmography. Wasn't she in some sitcom years ago with the actor who played Ted on the Mary Tyler Moore show? She certainly looks a bit foreign with great bone structure!

@NNT: Yep! Too Close For Comfort!!

@Zab: Do you or did you ever work in research? You are sooo good at it.

@wasthere: Sort of! I also watched a lot of TV in my youth!!

If Don's secret is found out, he'll probably get diagnosed with post traumatic stress syndrome (or whatever it was called in the sixties) and come out smelling like a rose. He always does

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/nyregion/25madmen.html

Check out this article from the latest NY Times which talks about all the info that MM seeks regarding Ossining. They get a lot of stuff from the head of the Ossining historical society.
Now here's the clincher: read the last paragraph to see what the last piece of info is thst they asked for. This may be a real spoiler as to what happens in these last few episodes.

They changed the titles of the last two episodes. #12 was originally titled "The Greatest Generation" and #13 was originally titled "The Silo".

bluegirl: re your post Wasthere, I read somewhere (IMDB probably) that "The Silo" was the original title for Episode 13. I thought it sounded very intriguing too. Hinting at something about Don's childhood on the farm....

I have a spoiler for that. I'll post below, for those who don't want to know.

SPOILER ALERT:

According to the cast of characters in Episode 13, there is a farmer and young Dick Whitman listed. Wonder why they change titles.

Also, Episode 12 features Margaret Sterling.

Wow, thank you for the inside info PanAm53, and thanks to Trotskyaire for the Times article.

Rnpen, I've always thought that Don does fit the criteria for PTSD, but PTSD wasn't officially classified as a real illness until much later, around 1980 I think. I don't know if it had a name at all during the early 60's. Anyway, you're very right that Don is a chameleon and a survivor. He'll make it through whatever happens.

bluegirl, I think it was called shell shock at some point. years ago, i saw george carlin do a bit about that and I remember him going through the terminology. I wish I could see that again.

Shell shock or battle fatigue was the terminology that was used in WWI to describe the short term disorder now called combat stress reaction. However, many of these WWI soldiers suffered long term effects like PTSD.

per George Carlin:

I don't like words that hide the truth. I don't like words that conceal reality. I don't like euphemisms, or euphemistic language. And American English is loaded with euphemisms. Cause Americans have a lot of trouble dealing with reality. Americans have trouble facing the truth, so they invent the kind of a soft language to protect themselves from it, and it gets worse with every generation. For some reason, it just keeps getting worse. I'll give you an example of that.

There's a condition in combat. Most people know about it. It's when a fighting person's nervous system has been stressed to it's absolute peak and maximum. Can't take anymore input. The nervous system has either (click) snapped or is about to snap.

In the first world war, that condition was called shell shock. Simple, honest, direct language. Two syllables, shell shock. Almost sounds like the guns themselves.

That was seventy years ago. Then a whole generation went by and the second world war came along and very same combat condition was called battle fatigue. Four syllables now. Takes a little longer to say. Doesn't seem to hurt as much. Fatigue is a nicer word than shock. Shell shock! Battle fatigue.

Then we had the war in Korea, 1950. Madison avenue was riding high by that time, and the very same combat condition was called operational exhaustion. Hey, we're up to eight syllables now! And the humanity has been squeezed completely out of the phrase. It's totally sterile now. Operational exhaustion. Sounds like something that might happen to your car.

Then of course, came the war in Viet Nam, which has only been over for about sixteen or seventeen years, and thanks to the lies and deceits surrounding that war, I guess it's no surprise that the very same condition was called post-traumatic stress disorder. Still eight syllables, but we've added a hyphen! And the pain is completely buried under jargon. Post-traumatic stress disorder.

I'll bet you if we'd of still been calling it shell shock, some of those Viet Nam veterans might have gotten the attention they needed at the time. I'll betcha. I'll betcha.

Panam53: Thanks for that George Carlin. He sure knew how to get to the meat of the matter!

panam53, That's it, thanks!! The Madison Ave reference is ironic, you think? So Don would have suffered from Operational Exhaustion. I miss Carlin, he was so good at putting into words what everyone was thinking

rnpen:

I had forgotten how much I loved Carlin's way of expressing what everyone was thinking until I read his words tonight. Thank you for the reminder. And yes, I loved that reference to Madison Ave.

Don is the Hobo and I think either Betty or Suzanne will turn out to be the Gypsy.

In episode 8 of season 1 (The Hobo Code) it's clear that the young Don admires and identifies with the hobo who visits the farm. Don's entire existence; his insistence on not talking about his past, refusing to be under contract and drifting from woman to woman is the hobo life writ large. Even though he's married to Betty and has two children, he's rootless.

The Gypsy could be Betty leaving Don. But even if they did break up she would probably stay in their suburban home, at least until the end of the school year.

Another possibility is Suzanne. If somehow the school were to find out that she was having an affair with the father of two of the students there, she would probably be fired. At which point she too would be rootless. She is an outsider in the community as it is, with no family ties and seemingly no friends. She wouldn't be able to ride out the scandal and would have to leave Ossining.

Hi PanAm53...I am regretful that I'm coming to the conversation somewhat late tonight. As it happens, I know quite a lot about PTSD. Not a lot of people know what you remarked on.. that this (PTS) condition was called Shell Shock in WW1, and Battle Fatigue in WW2 and Korea. (Did you know that in the Civil War it was called "Soldiers Heart"...? True, and sad.)

In fact, the Vietnam war and Vietnam Vets can be called the real illuminators of this condition...in the sense that they were bringing it to greater public attention even though it has been the same experience over centuries since men have warred. It is important to note that it happens not only in combat experiences, but to some extent in any any experience that is violent or out of the ordinary in a physically threatening way. ( I wish I knew how to put in italics or underlining for emphasis here.)

I feel like I should stop now for 2 reasons... this may be overkill on the subject...(I could go on and on), and I am not at my best having been to an Irish birthday party that was marvelous and very wet indeed. More anon if needed.

Joan is back! Joan is back! Joan is back!

If my memory serves me right, I do believe the actress who plays Annabelle once did a sitcom in the late 70's or early 80's called "He Said...She Said"

Thanks Twiggy, awesome analysis of our very complex Mr. Draper. Like Grandpa Gene said, "He has no people!" But that's alot of his own doing.

Since I have now watched all the season 1 and 2 seasons, I can see a pattern to his behavior. When he feels caged in or threatened with exposure, he freaks and is ready to jump ship with whoever he is involved with at the time. Makes me wonder if the same thing won't happen again. I wonder if Miss Farrell will run away with him. Midge and Rachel didn't.

I know alot of posters like Joan, but I never really did. She really gave Peggy a hard time in Season 1.

By MelbaToast on October 25, 2009 6:50 AM
... I wish I knew how to put in italics or underlining for emphasis...

It's very easy! The link below is a great place to learn how.
http://www.arachnoid.com/lutusp/html_tutor.html

@mpen - Right on re Joan's treatment of Peggy early on - "You're not much, so you might as well enjoy it while you can."

Can anyone identify the song that plays over the closing credits of "Love Among the Ruins" (the maypole dance episode)?? It also played in "The Color Blue" while Betty was reaching for her book and getting in the tub. So beautiful.

http://www.self.com/magazine/blogs/selfystars/2009/10/self-star-abigail-spencer-of-m.html

Abigale Spencer (creepy teacher) interview - looks like she will be in the last 3 episodes. Possibly beyond. My guess is that if Don and Betty don't split this season, she'll be his long term mistress. Wish she was more interesting.

I'm thinking Anabel is Barbi Benton or Cheryl Ladd in a dark wig...?

Poly: I think she's definitely for Roger. It's time he stopped playing with little girls and find someone his own age

Enjoy your Sunday Mad Men discussion TROLL FREE!! Join now!
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/sterlingcooper/

Georgey was right about everything.

I remember this bit he had when he discussed a dozen or so interchangable terms for items that are burnable: "Either it flams or it does not: Inflammable, nonflammable, combustable....!" hehe

As for the actress playing Annabelle... I knew her and it drove me nuts so I did some research.
sab4ever was right from the start. That simply must be Mary Page Keller who back in the eighties played Sally in Another World.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/60892928_58eb5e47a8.jpg?v=0
http://www.cinemarx.ro/poze/postere/actori/mar/Mary-Page-Keller-110560-34.jpg

There seems to be some great chemistry between Roger and Annabelle - I hope to see more of this tonight
(well, since I'm writing from Germany I'll have to wait until tomorrow night to watch it on the web...can't wait!!!)

Very Excited about MM tonight. Anyone around?

@Madisongirl

Thank you!! The actress playing Annabelle is 1000% Mary Page Keller from Another World. In no way is it Michelle Phillips (65yo!), Frances Fisher, Debra whomever....

Not only was MPK on Another World in 70's-early 80"s, I recall seeing her on the sitcom Cybill (Shepherd) in the early 90's. She was absolutely stunning on Another World - it will be interesting to see how she looks now (in hi-def).

I think Madisongirl's right
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hills/6813/mpk/index.html

You win Madisongirl! I think they look alike, but yours is absolutely right.

Hello, I am new to this AMC open thread but I have caught up on Mad Men via netFlix. I was just wondering if anyone has posted this theory. I have had the advantage of watching many episodes together and now have this theory.

It seems to me that I normally can tell and officer from an enlisted man just by looking at them. I know the lines blur on occasion but I get it right nine out of ten times. I spent my fair share of time in the green machine in the late 80s and early 90's. It feels to me that Don is a sleeper agent for the CIA. It feels that he was placed where he is now and that this family he has is a complete cover for him. When I watch the army scene when Don is digging is fox hole as an enlisted man....I see officer all over his face. Even digging a trench with a shovel, he looks like a captain or a major not the private insignia he was wearing as Private Whitman.

I belive the explosion was the work of the federal government to kill the real Don Draper and place Dick Whitman in his place. I belive that Dick found himself approached with long term task by the cia and needed him placed in a low key spot until the time was right.

I belive when he leaves for long periods of time he is out doing black bag jobs. I belive that Mr. Sterling is in on the secret. Did you notice that he did not care when Pete told him that Don Draper was not Don Draper? Had this been and actual revelation I belive Mr. Sterling would have at least had Don investigated. I belive uncle Sam paid Mr. Sterling a sum of money at the start of it all to keep the identity going. Don being the super spook that he is is able to be and ad exec superstar and still do the goverment's dirty work. I remember a cocktail party where in there was some cia spook talk about what is going on down in Cuba.

Did you notice during the Bay of Pigs crisis that he was gone for a length of time. It could of been that the women he meet at the pool and her family were also spooks. The whole thing smells of James Bond.

When Sterling Cooper was bought up Don was awarded a big some of cash as he was a partner at the time. Did you notice he did not take that cash and buy a bigger house. That money is set aside for some of his future black bag ops. The money in the cash drawer next to the shoe box is a small sum compared to what he has.

It is 1963 and JFK is about to get shot. If you see Don going to Texas soon on a biz trip, you will know that he is packing his black bag.

Also, Conrad Hilton is connected to some levels of government, (as most heads of industry were at the time). I believe he is sending Don to various places around the world to not only inspect his hotels and get ideas for ad campaigns but also to do various cia spook work that needs doing in various places.

Dick Whitman had a harsh childhood and was beaten early and often as a kid. What the cia offered him is an escape from his original family. Something he would of worked hard to do....even without the governments help.

This I belive

Dave Kan
Atlanta, GA

Twiggy: Your analysis was very interesting. Your comment about Suzanne being forced to leave is plausible.

mpen: I totally agree with you about Joan. I like her better now but at first I really thought she was very mean to Peggy and all the other girls in the office. I always felt that it was women like her that helped keep other women down by playing up the female as sex object and servant to men. I think she was really surprised and a little dismayed that Peggy was getting ahead with her smarts and not playing that role.

Hi! Has anyone here been following the Who Wants To Be On Mad Men contest? I have entered and am now in the finalist round. Check out all of the entries! My video is posted below. If you would like to see me on the show, click the link below to vote and leave me a comment!

Happy Mad Men-ing!

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men-contest-2009/2009/10/ycbmm-09-taylor-renee-campbell-joan-finalist.php

Sincerely,
Taylor Renee Campbell : )

Hi Dave-Kan,
Anything is possible. But for Don Draper to be a CIA agent seems to be a distraction from one of the premises of this story, which is partly a character study about a man who impersonated an officer in order to erase his lower-class roots and (somehow) get a leg up in society. But your theory made me think about that brief flashback of Dick Whitman in the Korean War scene, where in fact he did seem like a well trained soldier, perhaps more officer-like and less private-like.

In many scenes Don Draper has flashbacks of his shameful childhood. He used a great survival instinct to change Dick Whitman into Don Draper. I accept it but I haven't really experienced the transition from the insecure kid to an ad man who successfully manipulates the mind of the American consumer. He learned a few things from hobos - is the Hobo Code thread still here?

@RoseCityDarling: Good luck!

Hello All! So excited - T minus 2 hours and 15 minutes!!!

Sorry West Coasters......

Hi! Has anyone here been following the Who Wants To Be On Mad Men contest? I have entered and am now in the finalist round. Check out all of the entries! My video is posted below. If you would like to see me on the show, click the link below to vote and leave me a comment!

Happy Mad Men-ing!

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men-contest-2009/2009/10/ycbmm-09-taylor-renee-campbell-joan-finalist.php

Sincerely,
Taylor Renee Campbell : )

Aline, I think Don is still that insecure kid inside

I think it not right for the women to whore out themselves with the video.

It seems odd that CH walks into Don's office and bypasses both Sterling and Cooper. The first things out of his mouth are..."No Bible and No Family Pics"? Almost as if to say...what kind of Sleeper Agent Are you? You have to put out the props and toe the line.

Even in 1963 it would have been hard to take the ID of and officer simply by switching dog tags. The fact checkers at HBO know this and are waiting for the right moment to disclose the CIA status of Don. There is an 8 x10 picture in every personal file of each military officer. It is used for promotion by the promotion board to move the officer (or not) to the next rank. This would have been caught when Don Draper out-processed from the Army.

Connie’s “No Bible and No Family Pics?” comment was sincere - he had conservative views and was piously religious. I believe Don unknowingly snagged Connie in a chance encounter, just by being natural, honest and ordinary - at Roger’s own party, just by charming him.

Just found quote online about CH: “Famed for his charisma, energy (he turned 75 in 1963) and honesty, he was often described as having the poise and dignity of an ambassador, and was even mentioned as a potential candidate for president.”

I have to agree with you about the improbability of switching dog tags.

I don't buy the CIA theory. You're reading way to much into this. Then again, may I'm not looking deep enough

Hi, I am new to the group and have been reading the very insightful comments about the last episode. I think this may have been mentioned before, but I also think Suzanne reminds Don of his life as Dick Whitman. She dresses and lives simply and is not in the same financial class as most of his previous affairs. He talks longingly about her long, curly hair and that it is not worn anymore also. When I look at her apartment and her clothes it is almost like going back in time to the look of things in Don's flashbacks. There is a great lack of color and almost a bland look about her furnishings as compared to SC and Don's home. (not just b/c she is living modestly either)
Six minutes until airtime! Will check back after the show.

@Poly....Bad News! I don't want the teacher in any more episodes! Unless Betty is doin' her like she did Helen Bishop in the supermarket...Booo ya.

Love Roger with the double entendres.

Oh I hate her. She's starting to push him now

Jon Hamm is a good actor

That was a phenomenal scene just now in the bedroom (no more details yet, for the sake of those who haven't had a chance to see it yet). Nice to see Jon Hamm get to show even more of his acting chops.

I...I.......I...I don't have any words......HOLY SMOKES!!! That was epic!!!!!!! Bravo, they did that - perfectly.

What a deeply intense episode. The bond between Don & Betty will only grow stronger. Yay, Joan is back...and Roger will take darn good care of her, too! Funny how badly I felt for Don while his mistress is hiding out in the car waiting for him to commit adultery.
Sexy scene between Roger & Annabelle. Wish they went through with it. Loved the trick or treating...the whole show was great..best of the season by far!

Wow! Go Joannie! Go Betts!

Isn't the song @ closing credits from the film "Oliver"? Oliver the orphan boy?

What is with this site? No messages are posting

Isn't the song @ closing credits from the film "Oliver"? Oliver the orphan boy?

What is with this site? No messages are posting

Ok outside the obvious WOW factors, let's looks at some other things.

I thought they really hit the idea of parallels pretty hard, and good, here. In the beginning you had a take on the Roger and Don riff. They're not together in the drinking buddy way they used to be in the same scenes together, but instead of being structurally shut out from each other, they're in the same situation; they're both with younger girls and they both show better effort toward those girls than they usually otherwise do with women.

Roger turning her down in the lobby: That has to be the worst way for a woman to be turned down. He tells her details about their courtship, and women are very detail oriented. He recites what she said to him, as in he listened back then. And here in the face of a vulnerable and open woman, he still says no to her. I think a woman would probably actually preferred to have not been remembered.

Great credit though those who weeks ago said Dr G may end up in the service because it was an avenue one in his situation may go. Pipe up and give yourselves credit. Great, great call.

The suitcase motif from last season returned, not just Betty in the beginning but the 3 on the floor in the end.

The end, trick or treating, Who are really the ones wearing the costumes? Certainly not the kids.

I thought one of the more obscure, yet so important lines regarding the whole franchise, regarding one of the biggest things to take from Mad Men was present here tonight:

"I did everything they told me to do."

And that mentality, met with failure.

That's Dr G saying that to Joan. But it's a complete metaphor for everything in 3 seasons. It's a man saying it to a woman, but in MM irony it's the mantra, or epitaph, of, almost every one of the women in Mad Men. They did what they were supposed to do and it didn't exactly lead to best life. The brass ring isn't always what it's made out to be. It's one of the core, ultimate MM themes, and I love it was buried underneath the weight of the Betty/Don attention.

I know this episode was about the box finally being that gun that if you show it in the first act it better make an appearance near the last act. But I thought this episode was great in that there was also that other depth regarding relationships/courtship/love/sex....vs....consequences.

It was brought up that the hobo and the gypsy would turn up in the Halloween costumes. I think they are also symbolic for who Don/Dick is: he is truly homeless - literally and figuratively and also he is a gypsy - elusive.

In our graduate seminar this week, Dr. Patel and I are going to ask each student to write a (three pages or less) presentation on what they would like to see happen to Draper as a military deserter in time of war, a rabid philanderer, a fraud, a user and an all-around creep. Personally, I would love to have uniformed crew-cut military police surprise him in his office, take him into custody and perp-walk him through the SC workplace while Roger, Pete and many other employees applaud and shout wisecracks. And if he got roughed up resisting arrest, that would only be fitting.

This place is a ghost town tonight. Either everyone is having trouble getting into the site (I know it took me forever) or they were just so wowed by the whole episode they can't find words to express themselves.

I thought tonight's episode was the best of the season, and not just because Don was finally confronted with his past by Betty. Deeply satisfying, and I have high hopes for the next two episodes as well.

Shelby - the answer to your question about the musical "Oliver" is yes. The title is "Where is Love?"

This Ep seemed to be about strength of character (except for Annabelle). Betty’s confident and direct confrontation, Don’s complete honesty in response, Roger’s loyalty to Jane, and then to Joan, Suzanne not obsessing, Joan breaking a vase against Greg’s head, Greg acknowledging his boarishness.

Less about surprises, more about loose ends falling into place. No Connie, No SC take-over, no Pete, no Duck/Peggy. A two-hour season finale would help - actually, a two-hour episode every week would help.

Nice little comic relief with the dogfood commercial, when Peggy says “I can’t turn it off, it’s actually happening!”

Oh man, great show. I was so heart broken when Don was in the house and had to leave Abigail (Suzanne Farrell) in the car. And the song at the end credits is indeed "Where Is Love?" from the 1968 film Oliver! Written by Lionel Bart.

Before tonight I thought Jon Hamm was a good, not great actor. Now I think he should win an Emmy for tonight's episode!!!

A funny moment - the man giving out the treats to the Draper kids and then jokingly asks the parents, "And who are you supposed to be?" The LOOK on their faces!

WOW..brilliant episode. Yes, that is "Where is Love?" from the musical Oliver by Lionel Bart circa 1960.

Jon Hamm's performance moved me to tears. January Jones was brilliant. Lots of suitcases and open drawers in this episode

The last shot was interesting. The neighbor (Carlton??)
asks Don who he is supposed to be.....is this because Carlton has never been able to really read Don, or did he perhaps see Suzanne leaving the car?

MADtini: totally agree that Don is hobo and gypsy...or Don is the hobo and Suzanne the gypsy??
Looking forward to the posts on this episode.

Ddzamn! Betty! Look at the pair on you!
She grew up with money and her sophistication is natural, where he learned it on the 'street', eating horse meat and hangin' with hobos and such.
Did you see the look Roger gave him when he copped to having dined on dog food?
Rheally!

Betty: "the way you are with money, you don't know what it means"... or some such thing.
Oooh! She's gonna school you boyo!
Go ahead and cry, let it all out, you poor big baby, it's not so bad.
But look out for 'crazy face', she'll be a stalkin' during those 4am runs.

BBK - I think the neighbor comment to the parents was just a joke as they were adults dressed like adults..."and who are you supposed to be?"*** Little did he know the discussion that had taken place earlier!

Good point, BBK - on Don the hobo and Suzanne the gypsy.

***reminds me of the Seinfeld Halloween story - "Who are you supposed to be?"

"I'm supposed to be done by now. You know the routine. Ding Dong. You hit the bag. We hit the road. We have 10 more houses on this street alone."

In (or en) quiring minds want to know...does Don really love Betty? What is the foundation of their relationship?

Loved the episode and thought the performances were great by all the actors. Jon Hamm was very strong.
I also think the teacher won't give up so easily. She does want to hold on to her job, though, and that may serve as a barrier to her pushing too hard. I have to wonder if letting Betty gain full knowledge ( I wasn't sure if Don would tell the whole truth to protect himself.) is preparation for her to serve as a cover for Don. I still wonder about the business card he gave to the brother and someone gave a link to an article that talked about all of the research they do for the show. It was revealed that the producers had called and asked about the police station in town which could mean many things. What if someone/others find out or get close to finding out who Don really is and it is Betts that covers for him and saves his false identity?

I've been pretty critical of this season, but tonight was just outstanding. I felt I was going to hyperventillate with all the tension when Betty confronted Don (with her in the car!) Bravo to Matt and the writers. And Jon Hamm is deserving of all the awards.

I am sure there are those who are disappointed Miss Ferrell wasn’t some bunny boiling stalker. Her character is both compassionate and intuitive (all right, just a wee bit weird). When she gave her brother money and found him a job, I had the sense that she knew, deep in her own heart, that he wasn’t going to show up. Yet, she loves him unconditionally, so its no wonder Don is drawn to her.

She’s worldly too; preparing Don Pasta Carbonara. She didn’t want to embarrass him by not mentioning it by name. Despite the hippie image of her dancing around the Maypole, she has a keen sense of the reality of her relationship with Don – she sees things as they are. I loved the way she quieted him when Don tried to wax rhapsodic about some fantasy of the two of them traveling to Italy. She knows exactly how this affair will end, yet she gives her heart to Don despite every rational fiber in her body screaming “NO!”.

When she gets the call from Don the following morning, she knows it is over. Yet, she maintains her self respect by not groveling or begging. Her tears are real but there is such dignity in the way she handles herself. Boy, you would have to be one cold-hearted SOB to not be won over when she asks Don how he is doing. Like Adam Whitman, she is one of the few unselfish characters on this show. I’ll be sorry to see her go if this is it. I don’t think the writers will deign to make her into some Fatal Attraction/Hand that Rocks the Cradle caricature.

"Who are you supposed to be?"
"I'm a Dick, but it's gonna be ok."

Who's this Bob fellow Roger called?
Will our Joan be taken care of? She's a special girl, smart.
Smarter than doody face Dr. Rapey, who can't even get through a friggin' job interview! What a boob. Joining the Army like some rube (no offense vets).
At least he'll be killed in Vietnam... aahhh.

lurking before, but must comment now! the best episode this season! so many small but important actions. Betty leaving the r hand door opened in her father's desk for a long long time. Miss farrell in the car, actually abandoned before she is figuartively so. The agency trying to sell something so unpalatable, and Roger at the forefront, before it all goes south. Don has interactions with the baby (albeit for seconds)! Joan still has a big place in Roger's heart--he is more concerned about her than about a long-lost love.

And Don revealed, while he is keeping yet another lie in the car.... I agree that John Hamm provided an Emmy-worthy performance.... Secondary characters, for the most part, must be waiting for next week....

Small touches were great! the sewing machine on the table when Betty and Don's world is coming apart at the seams. As well, the kids have been told they cannot buy costumes, so Betty must be making them (there's a pattern on the table, it seems.....) Agree with mixed msg as to just who is whom.... Betty knows about all the $$$ in the drawer, yet Don says she must go to the bank... Dog food queen talks about a new image while wearing faux big cat fur.... Don drinks twice from the spigot, just as folks who are accustomed to making it on their own might do--not bathroom cups in the 1960s?

And can we all see Viet-nam!! Viet-nam!!! Now there are 2 possible ends for this season-- the death of the doctor and of JFK, or maybe both....

Ye, Polar Bear, I hate to admit it, but I think I was wrong when I agreed with others that Miss Farrell was bad news. The whole time Don was talking to Betty I kept wondering when she was going to ring the doorbelll and demand to know what was keeping him. She didn't, though, and when she got her bag from the car and walked away, I began to think maybe she is not the crazy, dangerous broad we have all been calling her. Then, as you said, during Don's phone call, her tears were real and she didn't argue or yell, she just asked how he was. It will be interesting to see what the future holds for this character.

Great comments, February! I hope you keep posting. I loved it when Betty asked Don for money..."Oh, just run by the bank. You have $200 in your account." Now that we know she made duplicate keys, I am sure she counted that money. Wonder how much is there and what she will make him do with it. What was that comment she made about him never being smart about money?

@zerelda, I'll tell you what the future holds for crazy face, she's probably knocked up by some Dick, and will contact him to get it 'taken care of'. Mmmhhmmm!
But yeah, maybe she isn't a whack job after all, I still want her to be. I just don't like her face!
Call me old fashioned, but I want Don to be with Betty.
I know, I know, but I said call me old fashioned.

Wow! That was great; just one amazing scene after the next. I am glad that Betty finally found out about her husband's past. That was the only logical next step story wise, and the only possible way their marriage was going to last. Betty catches so much shit from the fans, it was touching to see that she is willing to try and understand all of this. Still, Dick now has to face a life of longing for Suzanne, the teacher, because, as Roger's parallel story makes us realize, Suzanne was "the one". The one we think about when life gives us the time, the one we really wish we were with- our heart's desire. But that's not going to happen for Dick now, possibly never, unless the writers decide to give ol' Dick a happy ending at series end. And speaking of "the one", when Roger said to his old flame that she wasn't "the one", I thought he was thinking about Jane, his wife. It was only in the later scene when he is talking to Joan that I realized he must have been thinking about her. And then the closing song tonight "Where Is Love" put a perfect bow on the whole episode. Love sure can kick your ass. That show was genius.

I think this has happened to the teacher many times in the past, thats why she just called it an evening and walked home-i think shes a serial married man dater

Will Joan have to move to Germany? Will he force her to have children so he wont have to go to Vietnam?

Everyone questions Don, but why the heck did Betty marry Don? I think she expected much worse for the truth. It had to be better knowing Don wasnt really married before

Who are all you new 'posters' and why don't you have avatars?
You've got some great comments, but rheally! Put something on, it's unseemly. We dress for these events.

P.S. please don't hate me (tee hee).

Wow Wow Wow- Damn, if every TV series was this good we would never have to go the movies again. first off, -"Polar Bear" I love the fact you use "bunny boiling stalker" as a common adjective!- nice. I am so glad I raced home from the airport and ran in the house at 8:59:59 to catch this episode, the best ever. I would go so far as to call this episode "delicious" - it was like a great meal that you don't want to end. There was so much good stuff I can't even start, on second pass I realized that Betty asking if he really didn't have more money was her knowing that were thousands of dollars in that desk drawer not 30 feet away.
Roger and Annabelle was a showcase of Roger's double entendres and one liners but yet was even deeper, who agrees that his refusal of her had more to do with him realizing she was now a desperate widow than him being a good boy? The contrast of Miss Farrell crouching down in the car and giggling with Don realizing the family was home was a great set up to the intense scene with Betty. Did you notice that way his ears actually moved back when he realized she knew? how does one do that? sorry I'm rambling.. but was that a great ending? So who are you supposed to be?... I was waiting for Caldecott Farms to be re-named Kal-Kan. Kal-Kan was renamed from Dog Town Packing in the 60's according to Wikipedia. It looked like from the preview that Don was crying in front of the TV so maybe the assassination will not be the last episode after all.

zeralda, -When Don gave his half brother Aaron the $5,000 from the drawer, it wasn't even the half of the stack he had in there.

What an episode....JH is one talented actor. I cannot understand why he has not received an Emmy yet....

I loved the scenes with Don and Betty. Acting of the highest caliber and then some. January Jones is fantastic.

After "The Confrontation" ~~ and explaining on his part ~~ the way he walked out of the kitchen, it was like his legs were made of lead....a broken, defeated man.

The scene with them on the bed was the finest acting by two people I've ever seen.

I agree with the poster who said she couldn't believe she was actually feeling sorry for Don when his mistress was out in the car waiting to go with him on a cheating spree! Me too! What an actor!

Yes, he's made his own sorry bed, for sure....and he now has to sleep in it, and I feel sorry for the cad....the wonderful, flawed, oh-so-human cad.

There were alot of LOOKS tonight;
Don gives Betty a look when she asks for money;Roger gives Don a look when he mentions he's eaten horse before;Betty's look on her face when her brother tries to open the door;and the look on Don's face when he's asked who was he suppose to be. Our Mad actors said volumes tonight without saying a word.
So who has changed their mind about Miss Teacher? I didn't realize that I didn't like her, until she melted my heart tonight when she didn't make trouble for Don after being left in the car. She was hella cool for just walking away. I was sweating it the whole time Don and Betty were talking that she was going to come busting in starting trouble.Then she was so kind to Don when he called her. That's when i got it, and understood Don's attraction to her.
What a way to make a come back Joan! However I don't condone domestic abuse, but that was one wild scene. Roger would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that one.That Joan really is a man eater.
I believe I said that Joan's husband would find a place for himself as a surgeon....in the war.
I knew Betty would be easy on Don. Betty can only love Don and remain steady by his side. I mean after all Don sealed the deal with his love letter he wrote to Betty at the end of season 2.
"without you I will be alone forever...."

He kept repeating that it was his desk, his private desk as if he really and truly never thought she would be curious enough or desperate enough or angry enough to want to know what he might be keeping in it.

Betty looked different to me, older, as if she had grown into an adult overnight. She didn't come across as a petulant child or daddy's little girl. She was a grown woman fighting to understand just who this man was she suddenly found herself married to.

Don and Betty...can't get them out of my mind. Both very sympathetic characters to me.

But Don, does he "love" Betty for herself, or for the stability she represents - and which he never had?

As for Betty, to me she is not cold, she is aloof. Her relationship with her father is obviously very important. Did she marry Don, someone her father disapproved of, to get her father's attention?

In any case, it seems that neither of them (Betty nor Don) is in touch with their real fealings. And when they do get in touch with those feelings, will they find that they love each other anyway?

That could be disastrous for us as viewers. We would never again have the vicarious pleasure and excitement of their adventures. Instead we would be condemned to watching a 2010 remake of "Bewitched" with Daren and what's her name

-"february" I thought the same about Dr. Rapey possibly getting killed in Vietnam but actual surgeons were nowhere near the front lines, only medics trained in keeping them alive until surgery. and "zeralda" I too was on the edge of the couch the whole time waiting for that doorbell to ring and hearing Sally scream, " Mommy - Miss Farrell is here!" well I guess we were all wrong, she is not some pyscho chick but kind of sad that she accepts that she is once again(?) a mistress that knows her place. Off topic- January Jones is on the cover of GQ this month, - great photos inside and by the way guys, she is not only gorgeous, she is a big football fan- Chicago Bears - from her days in Iowa

Avoided this brd all season but tonight I'm running for communion.

Dick Whitman's ghost last week saved me from hating him. Now the love is back. I knew he would cry the second Betty threw down, and I couldn't wait. Everyone who's every dated a jerk can only wish for such a worthy backstory.

I don't believe he loves Miss Farrell. There has not been a "the one" yet (except maybe Rachel), and there can't be. he doesn't fully inhabit is own life or self.

Don loves what Betty represents - stability, imperviousness, respectability, etc. And while she hasn't thrown him over - was the lawyer's advice excruciating or what?! - she certainly was Hitchcock blonde cold when he lost it. "I couldn't believe you could love me" - his details and pain ring so true, huge kudos to the writers. I wonder the backstories there.

Love the little details used all season (like the faucet, the money in a drawer) to remind us that Don is forever Dick.

Can't wait to rewatch this tomorrow night.

Forgive, I don't know if this point has already been up, I just signed up today and haven't had time to go back and look through all the comments.

We are now less than a month away (in the timeline of the show) from the JFK shooting. Which also falls on the same day Roger's daughter is having her wedding. As if a wedding isn't already stressful enough, just wait till that powder keg gets lit.

Me thinks everyone is dressed for a WEDDING, judging by the way John Slattery and January Jones are dressed in the 'Inside Season 3' recap videos.
Mmmmhhhmmm!

This is a test comment.

I've watched it all three times tonight, just for the truth-comes-out scene with Don and Betty. The nuances and fleeting shades of feelings even when he wasn't speaking that went across Don's/Jon's face during all this were just astounding.

Watching Betty trying to figure out how she feels about everything he's told her was good too. As angry and hurt and confused as she was, she still loves Don. Or is she just reacting out of emotional habit, reaching out to comfort him, even then?

When Annabelle told Roger, "You were the one!" and he replied flatly, "You weren't." -- YOWCH. Talk about stone cold.

Greg: "I might have to go to West Germany. Or maybe Vietnam if that's still going on." If he does end up in Vietnam, I don't think he's got the mental fortitude to handle being a surgeon, especially a combat surgeon.

Was it just me, or did Roger's old flame (the dog food/horse meat lady) look like an older Jane? I swear, I actually thought that lady could have played Jane's mother because they looked so much alike.

And Wow! Joan clocked Dr. Rapey in the back of his head with a vase! Way to go, Joan!

Is that really Deborah Van Valkenbergh from " Too Close For Comfort"? Because the Pics that someone here gave us the link to are not current. The last time I saw her she had put on alot of wieght, (I Mean ALOT "OINK") And then I saw another one of her kind of recent a head shot, and she had a bunch of plastic surgery and looked kind of weird. Anyway, I think it's pretty funny how everyone makes all these assumptions or predictions and then they are totally wrong when the Ep comes out. I was really impressed with Betty's character. She's not such a bad old bat after all. Showed a little compassion to my boy Don. I think now he's exposed and vulnerable, and it's not a place he's used to being with the old girl. I felt bad for his little Honey that was stashed away. Too bad teach, what did u think was gonna happen? Like most Young men, our boy Don confuses a good roll in the Sack for Love And as for Roger Dodger, like he's really gonna leave a young 22 yr old girl with a caboose built like a brick Sh&^t House, for an old goat like the Dog Food Queen. He got some great lines. ILMAO with the one about "You ran off with a Dog Food Salesmen". Priceless.

"Only you would ask how I am" or something like that. sniff that was sad. And i need more Pete Campbell, I findhim the most interesting character.

Don's dropping the cigarette in the kitchen, FLASHBACK: just like he drops the cigarette on the fuel that blows him and real Don up in Korea, great touch. And there is Betty watching him pick it up, looking down on him like the real Don did when Dick peed his pants after the mortar attack. Betty shocked as Don/Dick's real identity finally begins slipping into view. Some terribly painful stuff. Great episode.

I just don't think the last episode will be about the Kennedy assassination. I remember reading an interview with Matt Weiner that said this would be too predictable. I agree with G that maybe the wedding eppy is next week, which coincides with this momentous event. I predict that the last episode of this season just may have a little mention of the Beatles, a hint of Season 4 that will move into the turbulence that was the mid-to-late '60's.

BTW a few more thoughts;
Mr Brad Pitt that's the way a man cries. Thank you Jon Hamm for doing it right. ( referring to Brad's acting in Legends of the Fall )
Actually I was surprised the writers had Don cry, it was very genuine though. I'm sure it made Betty feel like a heal. Although she acted a little smug the next day. Almost like she would have something she could hold over his head after she was done feeling bad for him.
Just curious has anyone ever had a close call like Don and Miss Teacher did tonight? Shame on you if you did. LOL I ask because I know things like this happen.Myself I've been in Betty's shoes ,but I'm nosey and I can lie too. So when it was thought that I was gone ,and going to be gone, I waited, came back and busted them red handed!! haha
Also did Jon Hamm look thin in this episode? I thought he did.

This was the first episode I can remember in which Don actually emotes about something, when he sits on the bed and tells Bets the story of the pictures.

And the most clever double-entendre of the show is the guy at the end innocently asking Don, "So, who are you supposed to be?"

Amazzzzzzinnnnnng episode!

Wow, Jon Hamm and January Jones scenes were stellar. They both were awesome in this episode. I hope they submit this Episode for Emmy nods.
I was mesmorised.
Joan hit hubby on head with vase.
Joan's husband so full of hope that enlisting is the answer.

Peggy-"Dog's don't like uniforms."

Teacher taking the walk home alone. She's definately done that drill before.

Anna looks a bit like mature Jane.

Don had a Anna
Roger had a Anna

Don-
"My mother was a 22yr old Prostitute who died having me.
Adam, he was my half brother and he died, he killed himsef. He came to me and I turned him away, I couldn't risk all this, ....he hung himself.

(Truth or dare over ,Damn , Don ,you win.)

When Don is rigorously brushing his teeth and spiting the toothpaste out of his mouth, that symbolizes him brushing away the guilt and weight his has felt keeping his secret for so long.

Loved that bit about not being able to get a divorce in NY unless adultery can be proved in a court of law. I remember reading about that but I had forgotten. I read that women would have themselves filmed cheating on their husbands to get a divorce. Of course, it wouldn't take long for a PI to get some incriminating pictures of Don (like the divorcee neighbor did).

I can't believe Don fessed up. I can't believe how spot on Betty was. Don's lucky she didn't stab him with a kitchen knife. I would have bet he would have made something up but he came clearn. I think Betty took it well considering she now knows that she married a criminal.

I'm guessing this isn't over.

I like that when Joan smashes the vase, it's to the back of her husbands head. Just like it was to the back of Dons head when he was knocked out by the draft dodger. Just like it will be the back of JFK's head in less then a month from now.

Before I hit the hay, I just have to mention, that the mention of Sal in the preview video must not be in vain. I hope we get some juicy storyline threading for all the major characters just as we did last year.
I want to see Sal and Kitty, and Joan, and Peggy, and Pete, and Paul, and Jane, and even loony Lois. But not Miss crazy face (go back to Idaho and settle down with an unmarried pharmacist, can't you take a hint! Sheesh, how many men have treaded up those garage stairs with the lights on?! Sheesh).
...and Don and Betty, and Roger, and ole' Coop, and Connie, and Moneypenny, and...
Typing too loud, see you next week.

Dave_Kan is clearly under the misapprehension that he's on www.abovetopsecret.com, or Coast to Coast AM. Hey, maybe the Brits are alien Reptoids. Where's my tinfoil hat.....

JimK!! That's it! I knew it reminded me of something I had seen before but couldn't put my finger on it!

Not mention JFK !? Not possible. The days before Thanksgiving in 1963 are too relevant. The history of how JFK's presidency ended punctuates the tragedy that the United States will soon come to know as Vietnam. The world took notice and was affected deeply on November 22nd 1963.
The only way I see it not mentioned is if the wedding is a morning ceremony.
I guess....hell I don't know. Sorry watching
Psycho...I love AMC !

LOL
hey G. Is that Jan Brady with an Afro? That's hilarious

First: This episode was excellent
Second: Betty is starting to grow up and become a woman.
Third: Roger is beginning to realize how lucky he is. I think he took for granted those who love him and does not want to waste his time with a fling when he has a loving wife. It also shows that he is starting to realize that he won't live forever and having someone take care of him will be important. Kind of like a wakeup call
Fourth: Crazy face teacher obviously comes from a troubled past. I'm thinking problems with her father especially if her brother cannot go home. She appeals to the Dick Whitman in Don. She is very blue collar working class which is what he group up in. She is who he SHOULD have married if he was still Dick.

Evan thou I was born in 1970, I remember they still had those crappy plastic Halloween costumes at Woolworths in the 1970's

Very good episode, but still not as good as " Guy walks into an advertising agency ". I guess we finally saw Roger's female equivalent this week ( his ex-girlfriend ) not to mention Roger actually showing sexual restraint, who saw that coming? I love how Joan knew Roger's secretary would be out of the office and when she could call him without the go-between. Well, kudos to everyone who predicted Dr. Rapist/Bad Surgeon would enter the military, although I still think it was an obvious plot twist you could see coming early this season, which is why I was surprised they went that direction. I wonder if that was the reason Weiner canned the two writers?

What a range of acting by Jon Hamm, Don excited about the weekend with Ms. Farrell, surprised by Betty and the kids, and then laid low by the verbal equivalent of a shot to the solar plexus. What to make of Ms. Farrell? Will she be back? What about her brother? Or the fact that she still lives down the road and teaches at the school, unlike Don's previous mistresses. I was sure that Sally was going to spot Ms. Farrell outside on the lawn, and then interrupt Don and Betty's pow-wow with the news.

I have to say though that this season seems to have had a lot a false starts: Ken vs. Pete, Peggy's relationship with Duck, no new stuff on Hilton the last 2 episodes. This season has also not really has not developed any of the secondary characters nearly as well as seasons 1 and 2, we haven't seen much of Ken, Harry or Paul since about episode 3, with the exception of episode 6 and Pete hasn't really done a lot other than to admitting an affair with that German woman. Let's hope it all comes together the last 2 episodes and ends on a strong note.

When Miss Ferrell says she is going to make spaghetti like she had in Little Italy where she was treated very well. That I feel symbolizes the fact that for Don, going to Miss Ferrell's house is like a little vacation. Like the vacation he had in Big Italy.

I was amazed to hear the lawyer tell Betty that if she proved adultery and filed for divorce, that Don would get the kids. I think my jaw dropped. Did I hear that right? I don't understand why Don, as a proven adulterer, would get the kids rather than Betty. I seem to remember that ages ago children would tend to go to the mother unless she had been proven to be an unfit mother. Any lawyers here to comment on child custody in l963 in a case like Betty's (if she had decided to pursue divorce)?

I think it would be funny if Coldicott Farms changed it's name to Soylentgreen Farms.

An excellent episode. I enjoyed it thoroughly. I think this show revealed the MM formula at its strongest.... the acting and directing were just superb. All the groundwork laid by the first two seasons found their culmination here, and the directorial hand--- keeping a parallel tone and integrity amongst the four "theaters" of the show--- was strong and sure.

Poor Miss Farrell. I'm glad she had the sense to walk home; I was afraid she'd walk into the house (expecting Don alone), and compound his problems, which were already bad enough. Think she's still a "bunny burner" ?

Can Betty forgive Don? I think so. In those days, wives did.

The lawyer's name is Milton... that quintessential 1950's man's name.

I'm glad Don got it off his chest. Jon Hamm did a marvelous version of weeping.... that's how Don would weep.... it was very convincing and very effective. The commitment to character these thespians play is nonpareil.

What a gorgeous, grainy, "filmic" look to the twilit bedroom scene.

Can't believe Joan bonked her hubby over the head with a vase, heh-heh. Nice to see some flinty wiriness behind that creampuff Marilynesque exterior.

The actor playing her husband is so-o sexy, I now observe. Those lips! Such handsome chestnut hair. And of course we, the audience, well know what he's in for. Maybe as a Captain and a surgeon he'll stay relatively far away from the VC frontlines.... but not very. "And maybe Viet Nam.... if that's still going on."

Oh yes. It will be.

Not much Peggy in this show.... and she's my favorite character... with whom I most identify, I think. That routine behind the glass was actually pretty funny. "They're describing THEMSELVES!" (-:

The actress playing the Caldecott lady is just gorgeous. She reminds me very much of how my own mother looked in 1963 (except 20 years younger). Roger's so foolish! He could be with this lady... mature, patrician, sophisticated, his intellectual equal, not a Hefner bunny. Men think with their little heads, don't they?

I loved the ensemble the Caldecott heiress wore to the swanky dinner... the scoop-necked, pailletted gown, and her immaculate coiffure. The matte carmine lip color. The single row of false eyelashes above. Nowadays, it's very old ladies who still wear a shellacked "wash 'n' set" like that one, but we forget just how lovely some of those backcombed styles truly were. A woman today might wear such a style, but she would be sure to tousle it thoroughly, give it a "bed-head" look.... whose slouchiness, for me, defeats the purpose of that svelte bubble... not a hair out of place. Nice.

End theme: "Where Is Love?" from the Broadway stage show OLIVER! (1963) Lionel Bart and Lesley Bricusse, I do believe? The song of a homeless orphaned waif... surely alluding to Don himself. Pretty ironic the way Bobby can go as a hobo, completely unaware that the "hobo class" was the one from whence his father nearly sprang!

I'm guessing "Caldecott Farms" becomes "KAL-KAN" ?

Don't you love the way Don blanched visibly... three shades of pale.... when confronted at the desk by Betty?

I don't think that was color correction... I think Don Hamm was feeling the part and literally blanched. Now THAT'S greatr acting.

Facially blanching and flushing--- appropriately to situation--- was a gift that the late Jessica Tandy used to do, amazing her audiences.

Joan's husband resembles a young Marlon Brando a bit, no?

Suzanne is not gone. Don handed her brother his business card and something is going to come of that. I originally thought that his body would be found with the card on him and Don would be pulled in for questioning. This is the first TV show that I have ever been obsessed over. I LOVE it!

Can anyone figure out who was the "Bob" that Roger called on Joan's behalf?

Hi fellow Maddicts!

Congratulations to all who predicted the Halloween costumes, gypsy and hobo.
Also, someone speculated weeks ago that Joan's hubby would be going to Vietnam, great job!

Did anyone else think that Betty fooled Don intentionally about going to Philly with the kids just to see what he was up to? He was so shocked to see her and the kids home, especially with Suzanne waiting in the car. I kept waiting for her to knock on the door! Obviously, she understood what was going on and left. Maybe, she's been in that situation before.

While I think Don did a great job telling Betty about his past, I don't think he will change his behavior much. The thought went through my head that he and Suzanne will still get together.
Maybe Don and Suzanne will go to Dallas in the last episode...

I was so glad to see Joanie give it to her hubby!! She will never be a victim! She keeps him in line for sure.
I did feel bad for her calling Roger for a job, that took a lot of guts. But, as only Joan could do, she made it sound like everything was great in her life.

I'm cracking up at Roger...he seems to have women coming after him from everywhere!
And, he is being faithful to Jane?

Does anyone have any theories as to what the new dog food will be called?
I wondered if it will be Purina? Purina (pure), to make it sound better.

See everyone later...

Hi 60's,

I think Betty planned to stay in Philly for trick-or-treating, but ended the trip early after failing to reach any understanding with her brother about the house. And I'm pretty sure SC lost the Caldecott Farms account when Annabelle stormed out of the "focus group" session...

Hi 6465NYWF!

You're right! After talking to her family's attorney, and fighting with her brother, she couldn't deal with it anymore.

And it is possible SC will lose the account, unless...Roger sleeps with Annabelle to get the account. Hmm....

I think Don Draper IS two people. He is both Dick Whitman and Don Draper. The Hobo and the Gypsy.

Beenthere.. I could be wrong, but I thought the lawyer told Betty that if she could not prove adultry that Don could take the children. You had to prove it in court, meaning, pictures.. private detectives etc. There is no way Betty would allow herself to be demeaned in public.

wow - amazing episode and srtill two more left -Bravaah MM :-)

loved the name theme - from the dog food account "that name has been poisoned" or "it's just a label on a can" - I imagine that Dick has been telling himself that for years and carlton's "so who are you supposed to be?" don always so conflicted, should he up and leave or is he a "good man" defined by the hobo code? the irony of that cheat carlton delivering the line - he's a convincing actor - we see so little of him, yet i despise him so much!

Boy, did dr creepy get what he deserved – a ‘shot’ to the head very similar to don’s head trauma a few epis back. Something tells me the war won’t open as many doors for greg as it did for dick. I thought it was telling that greg brought home the flowers WITHOUT the vase – joan seemed to see right through the empty promise.

One final thought, roger telling joan he wishes that some people wouldn’t remember him, I wonder if don has felt that about his brother adam. Don seems to be coming to terms with his role in adam’s suicide.

one more final thought - even MF had her part in the name theme - assuming her name had been exposed and her job was in jeopardy.

FINALLY!!!
I was getting worried that Mad Men had jumped the shark but then they pull out a truly classic episode. This episode had intrigue, drew on previous episodes and DRAMA! There was only so much mundane "normality" (Don and Betty living 'happily ever after' after all that happened in season 2, really?!?) that I could take. I'm just disappointed that this all happened in the 3rd last episode.

There seemed to be such promise with Sal's storyline. Even Peggy and Pete could've been huge but instead she makes another disasterous choice in Duck. But it was great to see Joan again and so powerful too! I just hope they can keep going full steam ahead from here.

By far the coolest line was delivered, when the entire Draper family went trick-or-treating, by the husband inside the door of the neighbor's house, when, after greeting the Draper children, he looks at Don and asks, "And you are you supposed to be?" The expression on Don's face could not even be captured by the thousand words.

Joan's husband said that he would be in training for six weeks then maybe stay in the States, or go to WGermany, or maybe Vietnam. If the Kennedy assassination is in the next episode (three weeks after Halloween), the last episode could be at Christmastime, which would bring everyone in the office together at the holiday party - and Joan could be attending it (after the interview Roger set up for her in midtown) and get the call that her husband has been killed in Vietnam.

This show really keeps us on our toes...is this the old "bait & switch" technique long used in advertising? We are so focused on the JFK themes that we never expected Betty to discover Don's true identity (or continuing infidelty) before November. We didn't expect Miss Farrell to be a decent soul. Roger faithful?

I really enjoy Joan's husband - I hate parts of that character but at the same time don't think he's all bad. He seems to really want to care for Joan. Good acting IMHO.

I've tried to add an avatar but nothing happens when I click 'your profile'. Any tips would be appreciated.

Yes!

And now we know how Frank Burns got into the Army.

Who would have thought Roger would have stayed faithful to Jane when he got the equivalent of a full court press? Don didn't, that's for sure. But then he's still a newlywed. As Don told Shelly, "You get a lot of chances."

The NY divorce situation would be why Happy left the kids with her ex- when she married Nelson Rockefeller.

I hadn't originally caught the reference as to why Greg said he'd buy Joan a vase to go with the bouquet of roses he brought home. Thanks, people!

Like many, I was sweating the ring of the doorbell as Betty was confronting Don. He had wanted to go to the car to "get his hat" but uh-uh.

Miss Farrell on the phone: First seeing if he was okay. Minor discussion and then asking if her job was safe. Finally, the goodbye. Classy, all the way, even with a broken heart.

Annabelle Mathis was played by Mary Page Keller. Nobody got it right!

Pound, pound, pound! "Damn it, Betts! This isn't fair!"

Hi Ritt1!

Frank Burns...you're right! Didn't he volunteer for duty in Korea on MASH?

I am a huge fan of the show "China Beach". I think it gave such a realistic account of the day to day horrors of Vietnam seen through the eyes of the soldiers and the medical/nursing staff who tried to save them.

Back in the 60's... was there ever a dog food company that had to change its' name because of 'being horse-meat'?
Products I remember were Rival and Ken-L Ration.

I watched the episode with three friends. We all feel it's time for Don to man up and make Betty understand who wears the pants in his household. Who the heck does she think she is, berating himfor being born poor and choosing the identity he preferred? She wasn't in Korea risking her precious butt. He's the man of the house, the breadwinner. She's just the stay-at-home wife. HIS wife. If Don keeps on tolerating Betty's disrespect, she will get more and more shrewish. In the coming episode, it is hoped, Don will put his foot down and give Betty a decision to make: love, honor and obey -- or hit the dusty trail.

Hate to tell ya Stocky, but who said that Don is an alpha-male? Some me are wimpy, weepy. I doubt that Betty really likes that type, cuz she went full-force for Henry, and he's definately alpha. Don's a beaten down man, from his childhood, war-time, and only protrays a strong man. Roger's a bigger man than him (in the alpha-sense).

OMG, I just got the "shot to the back of the head" symbolism of the Joan v. Greg scene!

Here's something funny. Don brings Miss Farrell over to his house for something different. BUT IT'S HALLOWEEN and, unless all the lights are off, which they would be, I guess (or not - it could look like Don was just home alone), those trick-or-treaters would be POUNDING on that door all night. Now, many of you might think of Roger with THAT double entendre. tee hee

Sorry, I haven't read all the comments yet so sorry if I repeat. Just 2 things:

1) Upon 3rd viewing last night I caught Don's lines to Annabelle during the focus group regarding the name change. Something like: "it's a name on a can. It's true because it reflects the quality inside" (wish I could quote it accurately) This foreshadowed the confrontation with Betty regarding Don's name change and how Don sees it.

2) Roger's line to Annabelle as he turns her down: "I finally found a carefree girl who isn't worried about the future". This sums up Roger all together. Roger lives in the moment and can't be bothered with worrying about tomorrow. Jane is the first woman he's been with that allows him to do so. Maybe he really does love her and this isn't just a mid-life crisis.

Finally, although I was wrong about Betty confronting Don this episode, I was proven correct in my assessment of Betty. She is a lot brighter and has more grit and strength than many give her credit for. I sincerely hope that now that the big secret is out Don and Betty can have a real relationship. If Betty is lucky, the outing of this secret may help Don be himself. Since Dick Whitman is Don Draper's escape hatch when under pressure, and now that Betty knows about Dick Whitman, it may allow Don to be Dick and "escape" to Betty as opposed to someone else. Don's line to Betty when she asks: "would you love you?" Don says: "I was always surprised you loved me." reveals Don believes Betty to be special (and she is) What many have called Betty being childish, needing to be center of attention, etc. I have always believed to be a defense mechanism to Betty knowing that there is something about this man she married that she doesn't know and he won't tell. This new found honesty is bound to help them both grow up, and grow together.

This episode ends Oct. 31st. We're 3 weeks from the Kennedy assassination and Margaret's wedding. Hard tellin' what MW will actually do with that. Can't wait.

Next week's sneak peak reveals more budget cuts to PPL/SC. No art director? At an ad agency? Someone is bound to put 2 and 2 together and surmise a sale is brewing. My guess is, Pete.

Ritt, I agree with you, I expected Suzanne to walk through the door with her shoes in her hands naked at any time. How about Roger/Tiger changing his stripes, oh my, I am a married man, and its different this time! All this alpha male talk has me thinking Don missed a wonderful opportunity to tell Betty to KMA and head out to sunny California (like my prediction) with Suzanne. I hope Joan gets a job that keeps her in contact with the SC folks, maybe a printer or television contact. Yes, Joan is a beautiful woman, but she does a great job and is truly way ahead of her time. I posted also that I felt Ken and Carla were the most normal folks on the show, add Allison (Don's secretary) to my list. Wasnt that her that had the good sense to back out of the break room when Roger and Annabelle were having a tete a tete. Was the house they were trick or treating, the house that Suzanne lives over the garage? I think the attorney did a serious rain on Betty's parade. Times certainly have changed regarding the judicial system. Off topic, sorry but I see that Peggy is going to guest star on Mercy in 2 weeks. Great post earlier thinking Kal Kan is the new dog food name, excellent!

Don is a farce- in every way- and Betty is finally taking command of her situation. She isn't berating him for being born poor or choosing the identity he preferred, but for being a liar (in ALL facets of his life.) I am glad to see her get some backbone. Or perhaps stocky's comment is a farce itself- I haven't been on here enough to tell. Also, I can't believe that people on here think that Miss Farrell is one of the "good" characters. She is still a homewrecking mess- no matter if she asks him about his "feelings" all the time or not.

Referring to an earlier post, the most popular canned dog food in 1963 was actually Alpo. Rival was, our preliminary research indicates, the second best-selling. Ken-L-Ration did sell a canned product, but most of that brand's volume came from its dry product, sold in a bag. I expect the Annabelle character will be a focal point of discussion in our graduate seminar this week. In particular, I'm expecting a certain one of our young male students to be irresistably attracted to a lustful middle-aged woman who eats horse flesh and declares it to be "delicious."

I couldn't get on to post last night after the episode aired. Very frustrating. Now after reading many of the posts it seems like most of us are on the same page regarding this episode. Here are some of my thoughts:

Our little Betty is all grown up now. I think I said last week not to underestimate her. After studying seasons one and two last week, it was easier to be sympathetic to her. I don't think she's a bad mother, she's been so depressed the last couple of years, that what seemed like distance was actually doing what she had to do to survive. Think about it, at the beginning of season one she had already lost her mother, then facing Don's infidelity, then pregnancy and birth, her father's death, and now finding out her husband is not who he says he is. It's no wonder she's depressed. Alot of major life events in a short period of time not to mention her childhood and expectations of herself.

I think she married Don because she loved him. No other analysis is needed. She still loves him, that's obvious but again she is protecting herself. How will she ever be able to trust him? That remains to be seen.

JH did a phenomenol job of acting in this episodes. I could actually feel in my gut what he was feeling. I was waiting for his knees to buckle or for him to throw up. Dropping the cigarette bc he was shaking so bad. Definitely and Emmy winning performance.

I think we have seen the last of MF this season, but I believe she'll be back for season 4. This storyline is not over. Don truly cares for her but she's not as strong as Rachel was and she'll hang around longer waiting for Don. I still think she's a nutcase and obviously having affairs with married men is a pattern for her.

Hats off to Joan, good to see her back. I like her more than I did in Seasons 1 and 2.

I dearly hope Sal comes back. I miss him

I was so impressed with Roger this week, he was so honest with his feelings. Judging by next week's previews, there's problems with Jane. I'm not sure who she was talking about when she said something like "It's always about her".

One of the themes of this series is that everyone is not what they seem. Last night's episode was about honesty. I can't help but remember Peggy giving advice to Pete and Paul; Just be honest, it's the best thing or something like that.

Can't wait til next week.

I have a few points about last night's show

FIRST...I Fast Forwarded through the Farrell/Don scenes because she makes me ill....imagine my glee when her a$$ was stuck in the car for hours LMAO..oh I loved it

Second...When Greg was being a huge baby crying "you don't know what its like to expect something your whole life and realizing its not going to happen..." or something like that. REALLY? Joan expected that she would be taken care of by a doctor. She got a career, mingled with successful men and thought if she played her cards right one day she would be the wife of a doctor. Good for her, I hoped she would have knocked him out cold with that vase. They need more money for heavier vases lol.

Third....it was too much when Don was finally coming clean esp. about his brother Adam. He never really grieved when he found out his only brother killed himself, one of the factors being that Don rejected him. After spilling the most important details about his lies and why he did it, Betty was sympathetic. Not saying Don is off the hook, but she does love Don. She will not be a dummy wife anymore. Now she has the real power in the marriage. I had predicted that Betty would still stand by Don-given the heartbreaking facts of his past. Hopefully this is enough for him to truly respect his wife and realize she can be is lover, wife and confidant. And good for Betty, getting counsel before making her move. She knows if it gets too bad she can still divorce him since adultery has been admitted to. Smart lady, she has been underestimated too long!

Fourth- Roger, boring. Ho hum. Could have cared less about his past lover coming back. The ppl on the forum were all about this side-story and the character "Annabell". I think the purpose of this was to foreshadow the next few episodes. I believe-from the previews- that Jane will start to show her true colors and break Roger's heart despite his devotion and true love for her. This Annabell thing was just a literary device.

Great show, the last 2 episodes will be awesome I bet!

Given this week's episode, I think the title of Episode 12 is appropriate. Don, Betty, and Roger have all grown up.

@adam ...Soylent green -- Very funny!

@rasputin...I always enjoy your commentary, breadth and scope of knowledge.

Interesting how in the "old Kentucky home" episode, Betty was morally outraged at how Happy Rockefeller abandoned her 4 kids for marriage to Nelson Rockefeller. Now Betty knows full well the nuances of NY matrimonial law in 1963. Happy Rockefeller didn't have any legal chance for retaining custody of her children.

I love the final shot of dear, exuberent Sally trick or treating...she just shoves that crystal ball in her left hand out to Carlton (and us) saying, I just love my costume, Halloween, TOT etc.

More literally the writers were shoving a crystal ball at us, the viewers. What do we see in the future?

I agree the Roger/Annabelle scenes were an extremely clumsy literary device and almost embarrasing in their expositional dialogue.

That said the gathering clouds for the cataclysmic event which turned that world upside down are like the Pinter "silence". I think the season will end on the day of the assassination.

Stocky, are you kidding?

I think they are off about horse meat - our vet actually prescribed horsemeat for one of our dogs - which my mother bought frozen and faithfully cooked for him. But someone above did mention that they were "selling something unpalatable" I also say great episode and being brought to tears by Don's confession, also that I was ready to give up on MM and that I'm still not sure about Miss Farrell. Back then it was really hard to be a Miss Farrell - far worse than now - the whole definition of woman was so different then (and is about to change - like Betty becoming powerful through the sale of her father's house - it's like he leaves her mad money if she manages the situation right. Her brother is so squat and homely and immature - and emotionally out of control - the opposite of Betty. Also I liked the clarity of the line, "you don't understand money." (But neither, evidently does her bro with chip on his shoulder) I'm kinda surprised Sally wasn't left a pile o dough.

Joan beans her Dr. Greg!
Don Cries!
Betty gets some good advice, and is even handed in dealing with Don. She sees Don can't handle money? Wow, Betts!

Every time I hear Don sweet talk another lover, I believe he means it! Rachael, and the teacher! Even Midge from the first season! I think he never means any of it, now. He left that teacher so fast because his marriage was in jeopardy. He will never leave Betty.
Roger should have "taken one for the team" with dog food lady. He lost the account, again.

Great episode! I was riveted.

@rmpen: Old troll, new name this thread.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

Loved this episode. Just one point to make Roger seemed happy to see Annabell then he gets the call from Joan and everything changed. When he talks about how happy he is he never mentions Jane by name. I think he is talking about Joan.

Wow! How bout that excellent performance from the bedroom scene by Hamm?! And it's not even lovemaking. Wow! I'm sure we women have seen that look on Don's face on our guys when they're busted. Admit it.

What I find so wrong though is the contrast in acting between Jones & Hamm. Come on, it's like putting Lawrence Oliverie and Natalie Wood together. All due respect Ms. Wood (loved ya) but there's just something off beat. Jones sympathizing response was touching but her demands for answers from Hamm was so corny. Shouldn't there be a different tone of voice or behavior when dealing with an adult. I know she's childlike but please have her act like a woman. Please Matt have her take some acting lessons. They look absolutely terrific together and that's just about it. That's not suppose to be the whole ideal.

Thank you.

sorry bipolarbear, i didn't pay much attention to that drama.

I just watched the video of Inside Mad Men for this episode. The actor's were interviewed while filming a wedding episode I believe. John Slattery in a tux, January Jones in a beautiful baby blue dress. Looks like they were at a country club or something.

I wonder who besides Jackie Kennedy will be wearing pink on 11/22/1963.

I too loved this episode - quite surprised that Betty confronted Don before the end of the season.
A couple of other obsevations - Don's attitude when he comes downstairs the next morning and his contrite glance at Betty before he kisses all three kids - as if he's trying to convince her that he appreciates his family......and then Betty coming along for trick-or-treating. I got the vague sene that it wasn't because she didn't trust him but that in some obscure way she was letting him know she's there. I liked the look on Betty's face when the neighbor asked who Don was supposed to be - it was just a flash before the close-up of Don - sort of a bewildered or exasperated look with a little shot of insulted.

The first thing that came to my mind regarding the renaming of the dog food was Kal-Kan, and the second was Purina. Kal-Kan being a way to preserve part of the family name but at the same time masking it.

I also think that the business card left with the brother is an anvil waiting to happen.....

The transformation of Don into Dick in the kitchen was brilliant. I was struck by the nakedness of his realization that the jig was up. And then the moment he wakes up and has to think for a minute where and who he is, and notices that Betty is not in bed, but has been there. And then seeing the suitcases still in the room gives him the strength he needs to get himself started for the day......as if he has dodged another proverbial bullet.

I haven't posted for a while, but I noticed someone is using my name above. I think that's interesting.

It was a great show. Made up for all the so-so shows.

I didn't happen to agree with many posters on here who were so convinced that Suzanne was going to be crazy/fatal-attraction woman. Can't say of course who she will turn out to be but I was very glad to see that she proved what it is about her that so attracts Don in this episode at least (gosh, I think that was a terrible sentence!). I really felt that having her turn out to be unstable in an obvious stalker-type way would have been a waste of her character and what it could reveal about Don. It does seem logical to assume, however, that she has been through this experience before because of her comments to Don both before and during their relationship, how she handled being abandoned in the car and his phone call.

I am not sure about this but I am going to say that Betty DID seem to show true empathy for Don (albeit, subtly) as his vulnerability came to the surface. I am still on the fence about whether or not January Jones is a decent actress or not. Her facial expression when he dropped the cigarette was good, but I felt she could have done more with the scene in the bedroom as he shared details of his family. But hey, I'm not an acting coach!

Need to watch again to get the full impact of the delicious, and much needed, scenes with Roger and Joan. Fantastic!

We must keep front of mind that this plot line communicates on several levels, conscious and subconscious, rational and emotional. Don's sublime cowardice, callousness and weakness is starkly illustrated by the somewhat ham-handed device of abandoning his ideal, loving woman in a car on a dark, cold exurban street while he submits wretchedly to vituperative demonization by a poison-tempered fishwife inside his own well-appointed house. No real man would stand for such trash-talking. Additionally, our less worldly-wise viewers may wish to examine the subtle implications of introducing "horsemeat" into the script. That term has a well-established meaning in the adult film industry based in the San Fernando Valley. And a woman who claims to find such an object "delicious" is inevitably destined to demonstrate that attraction to Don (whose actual first name, of course, constitutes another double entendre). The writers are beginning to show more and more of their hands.

@Sugar Magnolia - Sorry, I intended to direct my thoughts about January Jones' acting at you to acknowledge your questioning of her skills as well.

One other thing, I found the whole story with Annabelle and her company's relationship with Roger/SC to be an interesting counterpoint (or corrollary?) to the humiliating situation that Sal found himself in when set upon by the Lucky Strike client. Was he expected to give in to his demands? And should Roger have given in to her demands? Was this really the ad-business culture of the time?

Things/People are not always as they seem.... Good theme for this episode. For those who kept referring to Suzanne as the bunny-boiler, etc. I guess we can breathe a sigh of relief that we don't have to hear that any longer. It was becoming cliche' for one thing, and for another thing, apparently not true about her. She conducted herself with as much dignity as could be mustered in such situation. I was actually having little palpitations waiting for her to go up to the house and knock on the door wanting to see what's keeping Don. Very stressful!

As for Dr. Greg, can we take a lesson here and quit referring to him as Dr. Rapey, etc?? We see there is also more to Dr. Harris than one scene in one episode... he truly loves Joan for one thing.

@57Model: There is no way he's going to be killed off in Vietnam before the end of the season. C'mon! First he has 6 wks basic training, then he gets to finish his residency in NYC. Pay attention.

GREAT Episode! I watched all three airings last night! And will probably watch again tonight at 10:45.

I just have to say my favorite scene was Joan hitting Doc on the head with the vase! Now how may people can hit their husband on the head and get an apology from HIM! He may not be killed in combat, but other things can happen – plane crashes, car crashes, overexertion at boot camp, gun accidents……

I also loved the phone call between Joan and Roger, very nice humor and genuine affection there.

And why would Roger go with old horse-meat lady when he has a young hottie at home! He’s no fool.

An excellent episode – I was dying when teacher was in the car. I expected her to burst in at any moment and say “What is taking you so long!!” Kudos to her for figuring out the score. Just strolled on down the street with her suitcase. I wonder if any of the nosy neighbors noticed.

Also, Betty really got a reality check from Milton. She would be left broke unless she could prove adultery in court! Wouldn’t that be tawdry, dragging your dirty laundry out in public! Is assuming someone else’s identity not enough? And would lose custody of the kids? Like Don would really want that responsibility on his own!!!! No wonder women stayed with cheaters. What if the man wanted the divorce? I guess in that case, he would have to pay alimony? Like Roger, I’m assuming he initiated the divorce? They really didn’t go into that at all.

I agree with Shypo just above--that business card Don gave to MF's brother is bad news. Blackmail about the affair perhaps? I never believed MF would go Bunny Mad on Don but she tried her hardest to remain noncommittal--it's hard for women to do that, for sure, but not impossible. I hope Joan gets back into Roger's life somehow--I definitely think he is the source of conflict with Jane--remember their last confrontation, when Jane wiggle into the office in her ridiculous Harlequin outfit? Honey, you cannot outwiggle the master, especially with that skinny ass!

@rmpm:; you have nothing to apologize for. Just trying to avoid more drama.

@Goodstuff & Sugar Magnoilia: As usual, I am the odd man (or woman, as the case may be) out. I think JJ demonstrated her acting skills this episode when her demeanor completely changed toward Don as she confronted him with the truth in his office, then as she slowly cooled her hostility from the kitchen to that scene in the bedroom. We must remember, she's (the character) been with this man over 10 years, and this is the first time he's ever been honest with her. Further, she was completely in character the following morning. She wants everything to be O.K., but she is wary of a man who has proven to be "such a gifted story teller".

I wasn't nearly as worried about the teacher coming to the door during the confrontation as I was about her removing her suitcase and getting out of Don's car, at dusk, clearly parked in plain view, and then walking home. Someone saw that. This isn't over. Don has made himself vulnerable in getting caught with Miss Farrell as well as his business card in her brothers pocket. Will MW reveal these consequences in the next 2 episodes? I'm guessing next season will begin with a bombshell.

Since when does the whole family get to go trick-or-treating? With a 4-mo. old baby? Who was handing out candy at the Draper house? BTW, That was Carleton's (and Francine's) house they went to (for those of you who think it was the house where Suzanne rents the apt.) (That's 2 miles away).

As for Roger...hmmm hard to say. Is he truly in love with Jane or does he feel he made a big fool of himself already and it would be worse to end the marriage and be a laughingstock. Remember at the Derby party, he said "Will someone get her a glass of milk?" like he was exasperated.

My take on Annabelle is that she hurt Roger much more deeply than he's letting on. Anybody else?

Is it possible that Don is not the bio dad of Baby Gene?

Oh, and the scene in Cooper's office with Annabelle - when Annabelle says her husband ided of lung cancer, the subsequent shot of Don lighting up, and Roger's thinly-veiled comment of 'That's too bad' right after he looks at Don seemed to imply he hoped the same fate might befall Don. Gotta love Roger - this has to be an insanely fun role for Slattery.

@Dyanswan: No it's not possible.

No time to read everything yet. I am one of "those" girls, like Peggy (ahem, I mean a career woman).

Anyone else half expect that bass on Gene's office wall to start singing "Down By The River"?

Was Annabelle played by "Agent 99"?

This was a great episode in moving things forward. I am impressed with how many of y'all's predictions were spot on.

Suzanne has shown that she was getting attached. Asking where she fits in his life and how they can never be in public together. She tried to back talk but you know she is getting attached. But such is the role of mistress. Her sitting in the car outside the Draper home nearly gave me a heart attack. What if Betty or one of the kids looked out the window? That would have been hard to explain away. Still think that Don giving Suzanne's brother his business card is going to come back to bite him.

And the jig is up! Bravo for Betty for confronting Don about his lies! A part of Don thinks he is unworthy of love, he even said he didn't know why Betty loved him. But she does, and she was supportive on Don. Hesitantly at first, but she didn't throw in the towel. Especially since at this point she owes Don nothing. Maybe now that lies are out in the open Don may finally let Betty in. Hopefully this is a turning point for the Drapers.

Hi All!

Loved this episode and reading everyone's posts. I think we can all agree what an amazing episode this one was. Here a some of my thoughts:

Don being confronted by Betty..truly great acting. The look on Don's face when asked about Adam. He was not expecting to have to explain that. Definitely agree with other posters that Jon Hamm should be nominated for that scene. I liked hearing him explain his parents and Uncle Mac. "Uncle Mac, he was nice to me." that actually made me happy to hear that someone in his childhood was good to him. We know what an a-hole his father was to him.

I found it interesting that the next evening when Don comes home, Betty is sitting on the couch actually eating! Very rarely do we see her eat. Then she hands the leftover sandwich to Don. Kind of like a peace offering.

I bust out laughing when Roger is talking to Annabelle and her asks about her husband and she tells them he died from lung cancer and they look over at Don lighting a cigarette. Then, when they are talking about the bigger firms working on a slogan for her, Roger says "I need to brag about how big I am" -- Hilarious!!!

As a lot of posters and myself have said, Ms Farrell has done this before. Her telling Don "I just wanted more than I thought I wanted. It will pass, actually I know for a fact it will pass" She thought she knew what she was getting into, but this time it is deeper with Don than in the past.

Roger will always have a special place in his heart for Joanie. "She's important to me." On the previews for next week we see Jane saying something about Roger always doing things for Joan. (Don't remember the exact wording) Jane is very jealous of Joan!!

Great call to everyone who said Greg would join the army. When he said he could go to Germany (we were stationed there for two years) or "Vietnam..if that is still going on." That right there shows they have no idea and so naive about what the future holds.

Truly amazing show!! Keep the wonderful post coming.

I'm kind of mystified by all the squeamishness on this forum about eating horse meat. Most Europeans enjoy horse meat. Most of us eat cow meat, pig meat, poultry, buffalo and bison and yes, rabbit meat - so what's so repugnant about horse meat? Is it because we regard horses as "pets," like dogs and cats? Most horses were farm animals, certainly work animals, not pets.

Did Don tell Betty that Dick Whitman's mother was a hooker? From the intro shots from previous episodes, some older woman is handing a baby to a floozy woman (Dick's mom?) and implies that the baby's mom died in childbirth? (hospital flashback) It appears he was a baby left on the door step. If so, neither Don Draper nor Dick Whitman are true identities. Does Cooper ("Don Draper is important") know who Don's birth parents are?

Don seeks out loose women, as his mother was. Ironically, his mother may have been more like a young debutant, "knocked up" Betty or shunned Peggy.

Finally, Betty is really in the drivers seat nowl Don, as she pointed out, has broken the law. How soon does she go to California to see the real Mrs. Draper? As an AWOLD imposter, Don would have to sign away everything to keep his life and Betty does seek legal advise & understands money!

PS: Dick Whitman has never been discharged from the military if found alive and remember, Betty's father had a trist w/ a call girl when in the military!

Everyone's comments always offer great insights on this show. Thanks to all the posters who stick with this site despite trolls and tech problems.

How 'bout this theory: Maybe Don's character resonates so much with the audience because it reminds us subconsciously of another iconic character...Superman. Don is Super (Ad) Man, and Dick is his pathetic, hick, loser alter-ego.

We root for Superman, while all the while knowing he has a hidden, weaker side. One of the posters above made me think of this when they wrote that Betty could finally see real Dick under the Don facade.

By the way, I have never eaten horse meat but I would try it if offered.

I also believe JJ's performance was excellent. She's a good actress from what I have seen on this show and she was also in We Are Marshall as the assistant coach's wife. It was a small role but she did a good job.

Given what we know about Betty and all that's happened to her, anything more would have been over-acting. Her facial expressions allowed the viewer to read her thoughts without her having to say them out loud.

To: chatty cathy

Interesting question about Don's parentage. Perhaps Connie is Don's real biological father.

He did tell Don that Don was like a son to him. Plus Don responds instinctively to him like a father he wants to impress and win approval from.

What was that Connie said to Don?? What do you want from me ...love? Something like that?

Loved the way all the women in the show tonight were really putting honesty on the table.

This forum is the laughing stock of the entire internet, and believe me when I say I would be ASHAMED to be associated with it the way it is now. Most of you people must be largely over 50, but kindergarteners possess more maturity and critical thinking skills than you. And your sarcasm isn’t amusing – it just makes you look really, really stupid. This is a ridiculous kinderocracy now, and a major turn-off to someone like me, and I wouldn’t LOWER MYSELF to share the page with half the people here now.

@ChattyCathy: Yes, that's the first admission to come out of Don's mouth to Betty: 'My mother was a 22-year old prostitute who died giving birth to me."

This is my first time here. How DO I get my avatar? .Now to the episode. I think Betty is the strongest character. She has always dealt with weak men, i.e., her brother, her father and definitely wears the pants in the family and never shows true warmth and affection to her own children, but is a little more affectionate to the new baby. She loves Don because he needs her, he "loves" Betty because she gives him a semblance of normality.
Don tells Betts she can stay in for Halloween because it is cold outside, but she goes, takes the baby and doesn't even wear a coat. One tough cookie.

Did anyone notice how they all looked at Don when Annabelle said her husband died of lung cancer? Don was chain-smoking a lot more, lighting one off of the other which is the sign of addiction. Just another one of the writers meaningless ploys?

To: Dry Manhattan
I think you had one too many

Madtini....

Don was taking the Teacher to a hotel for a romantic-bootycall getaway, they had discussed it at her place. That is why she had a suitcase. HE WENT home to get some things and had her wait in the car. Don was NOT ever going to bring the Teacher in the house, they were going away.

Those Don and Betty scenes were jaw dropping amazing.
Jon Hamm has won a Golden Globe for Best actor for Mad Men.

Don had a Anna
Roger had a Anna

Roger's Anna(belle) looks like a mature Jane.

(I think Teacher may hang herself or something tragic-like Tony Sopranos mercedes saleswoman) or like Don's brother.

Yeahhhhh Love Joan.
I notice Jane in the previews b3tching about Roger caring about "her" too much or something like that.....I hope it's Joan.

PEGGY Got married YESTERDAY!

First Joan, now Peggs! Married Yeaaaahhhh!

@rnpen (and @bipolarbear) - You stated that you liked JJ's performance and that "anything more would have been overacting". I don't necessarily disagree with you on that score, but I guess what I kept waiting for was not something less or more, but rather, different? I don't know, I feel like whenever I watch her extended emotional scenes, her mannerisms, facial expressions, whatever, never seem to change much. Comparatively, even though JH is also limited with what he can do with his character's stoicism, he seems to be able to convey such richness in emotion in his different scenes. Again, maybe I am just not seeing it or not understanding her character fully.

Just curious what you all thought further.

First Avenue: Don and Miss Farrell were going to Norwich. A suggestion she made when they were in her apartment. Norwich, NY is homey, artisan and very NOT Manhattan.

@Chatty Cathy - Don tells Betty that his mother was a "22-year-old prostitute who died having me". His father's wife raised him.

I continue to find Dr. Greg a total self-absorbed brat. I don't think he has any redeeming characteristics, despite the apology. When he tells Joan she has no idea what it's like to want something all her life only to have it denied her was just too much. He sees her as a posession, not as a partner.

I also noted the irony of the scene of Betty sitting at her father's desk - she's now the one 'in charge' of his personal 'things' (as Don calls them in the later scene). She picks up what looks like a stack of money in the right-hand drawer in a gesture that mirrors her discovery in her own home. I was also fascinated by her 'head-tilt' silent command for Milton to close the door. She comes back from her Dad's house (now hers?) calling her and Don's house 'hers'.....just interesting little parallels.

And yes, MF has been through it before - she makes several allusions throughout her flirtation with Don. And then when she says she knows for a fact that 'it will pass' and the speed with which she says goodbye to Don to me indicate her familiarity with the drill.

I'm anxious for more Pete, Peggy and for Sal to return.

The old woman handing the baby over was a midwife, giving the baby to Don's stepmother who also happens to be married to Don's biological father. Obviously his father sought out the company of whores also. The baby was named Dick bc of his mother's dying wish. She wanted to cut the baby daddy's &^%# off.

@dolfina: you're right about Betty's experience with men in her family. I never considered that. Gene was an ass and William is a whinny baby. Even with all his flaws, Don is a better man than those two

When Don and Suzanne first discussed going away, Don suggested "Mystic". Anybody - What is Mystic?

Wasn't baby Gene cute the way he smiled and laughed when his Daddy kissed him.

I also noticed that Betty was eating in the last scene. I think that's how we know she's f eeling better. I'm sure the more she thinks about things, the more she will finally understand her husband.

Besides the previous rape scene with him and Joan (and I guess if Joan can forgive him for that so can we?) I think Joans husband is getting a bit of a bad rap for his despair. He's spent probably a dozen years of higher level education in a field that requires you to just kill yourself to learn it all and be treated like shit to be told you just don't have it. It wasn't a matter of him doing something bad (like every other guy on this show does). If I were him I'd be incredibly depressed; totally despondent. Jeez! Have a heart!

On the other hand, given that I'm a guy, I'm not sure with a wife as hot as Joan I could be all that despondent. On a more mature note (though all men are 10), Joan is a force of nature. She's so infinitely more mature than her husband.

Ironically, he needs a psychologist or a psychiatrist but I'm not sure the ones in that era were good for anything.

@Laurie B. - I'm assuming Mystic, Connecticut? There is the Mystic Seaport there....

@ 60's child

I'm pretty sure the name Ralston Purina dates way-y-y back to the 1910's....

@rnpen-I agree that Betty is going to stand by her man. You can tell she may not be truly trusting him, but she definitely understands him a lit bit better. she could see how devastating it was for him to finally come clean and admit his past. I feel they both made a huge leap in their relationship. It probably felt good to Don to get all of that out and not keep it bottled up inside or hidden in an old shoe box.

I feel that Betty finally and very quickly grew up with this revelation. Love how they had her hair pulled back in a much more mature style to show that. she looked much older and wiser.

@Laurie B. @1:26 PM. Re "Mystic," I'm not 100% certain, but isn't there a Mystic, CT -- a sea-side town that was the setting for one of the first movies that Julia Roberts was in? Was it called "Mystic Pizza" -- or something like that? I"m sure some movie buffs (or New Englanders) will know.

I Adored how Betty looked at Don w/ such Genuine Tenderness and even Sympathy. THEY REALLY DO LOVE EACH OTHER!!! I too, was getting itchy while Miss Farrell was out in the car. Hat's off to her for knowing when to "throw in the towel," and calmly walk away. Brilliant epi!

-BoyToy: YES, Alpha Males do cry. I have always only been w/ Alphas. Because they are so tough and self-controlled, when they break, they break BAD. It is not a pretty sight.

-rasputin1963: You are always such a pleasure to read! YES, Dr.Greg is FOXY and extremely Brando-esque. When they were vacuuming before the dinner party the other episode, when he was wearing that tight white t-shirt: WOW. I bet he has really powerful thighs too-among other attributes. YUM! I'm not wild about his character, but I hope he doesn't get killed! I LOVE it when Joanie talks in that breathy baby-talk way to him. SEXY! Gee, I wish they'd make an Adult Film (both of their bodies are ultra-superlative!) HOT!

BTW: Don's chest is divine. Time for a cold shower Pronto!

Don is attracted to Suzanne but he does not Love her. Don LOVES Betty. Sex and Love are vastly different yet fortunately, not mutually exclusive!? I've had some pals that have been high-class call-girls and they say that frequently, after their services have been consumed, the men often talk about how much they Love their wives. Just another Confounding Paradox that makes LIFE Maddening and Interesting!? CHEERS!

Alpha Female,
Fancy-Nancy

Love love love Roger! He has always had a soft spot in my heart since ED. "You weren't" Love him and his lines. God bless you writers.
as a lover of confrontation, I was star struck with the box revealed. Very telling that he calmly lit up with Pete doing the big reveal to Cooper and he fell apart with Betty.
Matt Weiner is genius, nothing that has been on television makes it on his show. Always what you wouldn't expect. But that you love so much.
The mistress just fades away. Anything else would be a Glenn Close copy, and Weiner doesn't do that.

@goodstuff: didn't mean to step on your post -- I didn't see it before I posted mine re "Mystic."

could someone please tell me how to read man men lovers comments on the most recent episode,
everytime i go into open thread its comments about the synopsis etc
Thanks

First time I'm posting but here goes: the Hobo automatically reminded me of the Hobo Code from Season 1 - the drifter who stays with Dick's father, who then doesn't pay him for his work on the farm. The Hobo carved the sign for "a dishonest man lives here" into the Whitman farm fence post. A dishonest man also lives in the Draper house, doesn't he? Don has become his father in so many ways, despite doing his best to become the polar opposite (they share the same libido ... remember how the midwife blamed Archie for his wife's multiple miscarriages because Archie couldn't stay off of her? That's when Archie went to the prostitute to fulfill his needs...)

Anyway, as for the gypsy -- or, fortune teller. Sally was holding a crystal ball. Have we had any premonitions or fortune telling in other episodes? What does the future hold for the Drapers?

I thought the writers' choices of these classic 50s/60s costumes (now completely outmoded and politically incorrect of course!) were typical brilliant Madmen writing: astute, working on multiple levels, and yet oh so innocent.

Finally - did anyone recognize the song playing at the end? I did - and it's driving me crazy - what is it? who is singing? I think it's from a broadway musical of the era. Thanks!

Good call on the Roger/Don/Anna/Annabelle. I posted way above about a lot of Roger and Don parallels this episode. I found it interesting how they're opposite yet in the same situations. Great creativity on the MM gang's part.

Know what else was very interesting?

That whole fishbowl theory about you either have none or you have too many. Roger, out of nowhere has this Annabelle all up on him. Then, he has out of nowhere Joan calling him. Joan may or may not be rekindled, but she's calling him out of nowhere. And he's married and at least trying to make an effort. Too often you have too many, or none at all.

His conversation with Joan was also great. Point blank to her, he's bold and direct with her, yet lays off without pushing it. Very good flirting my man. That's the proper back and forth of flirting, unlike the immature Miss Farrell.

And notice, Roger didn't push (unlike Dr G) Joan through the door, he let it open for her to walk though if she chooses. The difference between Joan's men. Well played.

Brilliant acting by JH - he exhibited the perfect balance of shock, defensiveness, and restraint that a man like DD would convey when "busted". I so appreciated that he didn't blubber away in soap opera fashion, but showed a realistic picture of how a man so controlled in his emotions - and in so much pain - would express himself.

Did anyone else catch Don's line to Dog Food Lady - "It's not easy to change a name"? Unless, of course, you're Dick Whitman.

Loved Joan hitting Greg with the vase. My husband and I both looked at each other, mouths open.... ..(Oh no she didn't - Go Joan!!!)My husband said that was uncalled for and I told him:"Now don't make me come after you with a vase!" I think I may start saying that to him when ever he does something dumb. Then later on, I told him "Now I know, I guess I have to hit you with a vase in order to get flowers!" He didn't find it as humorous as I did! But I am funny in my own head and that is all that matters. Just thought I would share that with you all.

@Rasputin: I agree that Dr. Greg is handsome and I can see what you say about him resembling a young Brando. If he were in a different role (not weak) everyone could find him yummy.

@Maddicts: I'm thinking Joan is referring to Roger's mom in the next episode as I think the elder woman is getting under her skin. And it is written that his mother will be in the next ep.

@Couch Potato: You are not speaking to the real Dry Manhattan but an imposter (troll) using her post name. Our Dry does not have a dot before her name. Someone used my name recently and tried to get me in trouble with a wonderful poster (Zerelda). Very upsetting.

sorry,
I"m on now,
Is it possible Pete is the one let go.

Why does his wife ask if he "lost his temper"

Wow!!! If this was a book, I would have jumped to the end to find out what happens! How will I stand the suspense? I just LOVE this show!! A couple of observations:
1.) Greg's fate is cast. For the poster who said surgeons weren't on the front lines.....wrong. I married one, who was a Major actually, and he was definitely, in a helmet and flack jacket, on the front lines under fire side by side with the medics. How I wish he had been in the back but, for the sake of all the kids he helped, It's better he wasn't. He served for two years, only four months of those in a "hospital" outside Saigon.
2.) Suzanne knew ultimately what was coming. She made the comment in the "pillow talk scene"....something to the effect of knowing she could recover from the end of a relationship. Not to say she may not come back....but I don't think so. If she does, it will be interesting to watch as she and Don cross paths, as they inevitably will.
3.) Yes, Betty is aloof and cold. I think she comes across this way because she doesn't know how to show her feelings. I think she is truly touched by Don's admissions and all she can muster is to place her hand on his back. We've never seen her mother and her father wasn't affectionate. She is the product of an environment where "classy" people didn't show their feelings. Those inhibitions didn't begin to change until the later 60's.
4.) I now know what my mother did with all my old clothes!.....Peggy and the secretaries are wearing them and Betty has my capri pants!!!!!

Sorry to the real Dry Manhattan. New to the site did not know.

FanNan-I like them, too!
I knew Liz Moss would be married yesterday cuz on the View it was hinted, then I posted it on another thread that it would be a year since she met Armisen on SNL. Congrats Liz!

@jeffe64: great catch on Betty's hairstyle. Very grown up.

I'm watching the epiisode again right now and I finally get it. Don does not feel worthy of Betty so he denies himself of her by not going home on many evenings. But when he feels like his life is crashing in on him, he needs comfort so he goes to these other women who represent his birth mother and stepmother bc he never had their love.

To all the guys on this thread: Is that a reason why men cheat?

@madmenlover-Wow I didn't make that connection about Pete when watching the previews. Do you really think they will let him go? (after I just typed that, I thought..they have been letting a lot of people go--where's Sal?) They keep Lois for cutting a man's foot off, but fire them for not doing "everything" the client wants. I don't want to think they all end up going to work with Duck? That just doesn't gel well with me. But, you may be onto something about Pete losing his temper. It may all boil down to the fact that the client just doesn't like him, then him being a hot head to boot. Just another reason for them to easily fire him. One more down...many to go.

@ilovemadmen: The song you heard at the end of the episode is "Where is Love" from "Oliver!"

I do not know if that ws from the original Broadway cast or from the 1968 fiolm release of the musical. It didn't sound like Mark Lester to me.

I love that the lawyer's name was Milton. The oblique reference to "Paradise Lost" is great.

Betty losing her fantasy of her perfect life.

Annabell losing here fantasy of her "Casablanca" perfect love and so on.

The subtlety of the show never fails to impress

@jeffe64 @2:14PM: I loved that you spoke to the vase-throwing, but I'm in a minority of one, I guess regarding how I felt about Joan doing that. I didn't care for that manner of Joan's expressing her built-up anger and frustration at hubby's callous, childish and insensitive comment. (And I know he deserved a good head-bashing figuratively speaking). But IMO, it was a bit 'out-landish, and a very "un-Joan-like" action; Joan always bashes, cuts, or sears her targets with words -- and she's so effective that way. That's her forte. I don't ever remember Joan resorting to a phsyical action. Besides, is it a plaster of paris vase--because how could a china or ceramic vase shatter against someone's head and not knock them out?. I say it's unrealistic and out-of-character. Or at least, just have her throw it against a wall. That turned me off.

( I didn't like Don getting bashed so hard in the back of the head either -- just from a "reality" view-point. It's unbelievable to me that people getting hit that hard (hard enough to break a vase) would not have significant injury -- concussion or worse).

Awww, come on, you just have to throw the vase at the head case! Sorry, couldn't help myself....Luckily, no one got hurt!

@goodstuff: ok, "two-shay"!

We have to think,what would a Husband do in the 60's if he is caught doing something bad? He Buys her something. Diamonds? Perfume? Car? Daddy's house. Betty got the right advice from the Lawyer,she's just going to try and get something out of this,and now she know's Don has alot of cash.They will buy her Fathers House and they'll rent it out to her Brother.If she's smart she'll insist it be put in her name.

@take five-I do agree that it was totally out of Joanie character..she does have a wonderful way to cut people with her words and that is more her style, but I feel she was probably at her wits end with Greg because 1) he is not able to find a medical field that he could fit into or get into and 2) she being the soul breadwinner and looking for employment. Financial instability can be a big strain on a marriage, especially when she thought she had found the one man to provide and take care of her. She is literally taking care of him! She lost it when he told her she didn't know how it felt. She knew exactly how he felt, but he didn't see it. Maybe a slap on the back of the head or like you said, throw the vase at the wall to say "wake up..what do you think I have been doing here and how dare you think that way!!" The vase was a little too much, but...I still loved it.

In the previews for next week... I think that Jane MIGHT be referring to Margaret (Roger's daughter). when she says...you are always doing everything for her???

@goodstuff: It could just be that you see Betty's character from a male perspective and I see it from a female's. Betty acts like I would toward a liar. I personally would afford him little emotion. That's the way JJ plays it, so, I can relate.

@ilovemadmen: You state: "remember how the midwife blamed Archie for his wife's multiple miscarriages because Archie couldn't stay off of her?"

When I saw that scene I assumed Archie beat her during pregnancies and that's why should couldn't carry a baby to term. That's the thing about MW. The dialog can be interpreted many ways.

@DMERRIMAN: If I were Betty, I'd hold out for air conditioning! Especially after Don's reaction to her even talking to a salesman last season. The guy is sittin' on half a million in '63 and they don't have ONE window unit in that house.

I also loved Betty's line to Don about money. "You don't understand it."

@ginger: I agree. Jane referring to Margaret as "you always do everything for her" is most logical. After all, aren't Jane and Margaret close in age? There are only 2 or 3 years between them, right?

That's what I thought - that Jane was referring to Margaret. I don't think we've seen the last of Suzanne, either - she'll turn up pregnant as sure as I'm sitting here. And kudos to Roger for keeping his pants on for once in his life ... I'm just sayin'.

"Everything you do is for her"...Jane to Roger. I believe she is speaking of Margaret.

A parent does do everything for their kids, duh...but Jane is far from being in a parental mindset so of course like a child she gets jealous as if Margaret was a sibling and not step daughter.

Don's going to make the Grand Gesture and probably buy out Brother Bill's half of the house. I was surprised the lawyer didn't suggest getting comp's in such a case. The question is: What will they do with the house even if they do buy it? Move to Philly? I doubt Betty's going to suggest loaning Brother Bill the money.

All I can say is that vase Joan used must have had very thin sides. Most of the vases I've seen: Cause of Death: Blunt Force Trauma.

It looked to me like Don was punched on the back of the head by the "draft dodger", not have something smashed against it.

mpen - I think you could ask ten men why they cheat and you'd get ten different answers. I suspect in Don's case, it's not that he didn't feel worthy of her.

It's first, they aren't going to be asking any questions he doesn't want to answer - it's a booty call, stress relief, she's a f**k buddy. Second, he feels more comfortable having sex with them (remember, he's still got Betty on that pedestal called Wife and Mother - Madonna.) Third, it lets him get outside the box, so to speak. Fourth, I don't think he's been getting much at home (if any) since the time she threw him out.

Italy was an exception. After their return to Ossining, it was like coming back from their visit to Philly to see Daddy Gene. "We're not pretending any more."

Yes, Jane must be jealous of all the attention Margaret is getting about her upcoming wedding.

Just watched...Inside Ep. 11 with MW. Betty and Roger do look like they are wearing wedding attire. It even looks like a Tiffany's favor box on the table. I wonder how they can show the wedding without discussing JFK?

To address the question of the reason men cheat is because they can. It's the same reason women cheat.

Everybody here seems to be into psychology. Most of the time it's pretty simple. ASDAAWPHNC.

Some of the words in this acronym are Stiff, Wet, Conscious. I'll let you fill in the blanks.

Oops! That is actually Betty's clutch on the table...not Tiffany's box!

@Dennis This is true. lol

"Did you get caught?" Oh did he. That was my favorite double-entendre from this episode.

Don didn't come completely clean about the fact that he stole the man's dog tags. He said "they made a mistake". No, not exactly true. He tells Betts his mother was a whore, but he can't admit that his mistaken identity was no mistake but his own doing...kinda weird ethics there.

Loved that old portable sewing machine. It's the kind I learned on, briefly, as it was required by my home ec class. Wish we hadn't gotten rid of it now.

Suzanne's combination of selflessness and self-indulgence, vulnerability and guile, was all too incongruous and unlikely. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of us thought her odd and off-balance. I'll be glad when she's gone for good. Sorry, but she never seemed real to me. I can barely call her by name.

After Betty's initial interrogation, while she's upstairs tending to Gene, did anyone else think Don was staring out that door and considering escape?

@Greg I appreciate your deference to women, but I think that line really does apply to men as well of that time. Most of the men are as tied to their role as the women, albeit with a bit more personal freedom and time. The prime example of course is that a man simply had to marry by a certain age, or he was never going to climb the corporate ladder. And be the bread-winner, and fix anything mechanical, and never cry, etc. Some of that still stands, but I contend the feminist movement has brought men a long way too.

@goodstuff West coasters can watch the show at 7pm. local. It's a treat to watch while I'm still awake.

@dwise Excellent question. Can a man really love two women at the same time? If anyone can convince me of that, it's that smooth talkin' Don Draper.

@ruth Yes, what you said. He goes from Suzanne in the car to Betty in the house and I'm convinced he is in love with each. How can a man do that? He really does pull off double personalities with aplomb. Until he gets caught anyway.

@rasputin1963 You said "I think so. In those days, wives did." I think it's more true to say, in those days, wives had to. With the economic and legal inequities, wives really didn't have much choice.

@ritt1 I am still laughing!

@bipolarbear "I was always surprised you loved me." That line got to me. That's when the lump began to form in my throat.

@boop Loved your observation about Roger not taking one for the team. Too bad Sal is not around to know that.

Sorry,I have to say this: I am somewhat shocked at all the ratification of domestic violence by a lot of the women posting on this board. If the shoe were on the other foot, as it has been with Greg, it would be a much different story. Obviously things have not worked out to Joan's liking either, I get that. Dr. Butterfingers is obviously too self-consumed and whiny to consider Joan's feelings on the subject, or to even consult with her about a major career move that will undoubtedly uproot them and move them far away in less than hospitable conditions. Not exactly what Joan signed up for. Greg is clearly a jerk, but he is the jerk Joan chose to marry. That said, it should not be acceptable under any circumstances that one spouse physically assaults the other-- whether it be Greg on Joan in the office or Joan on Greg in the apartment. Another strike against Joan, in my book, along with her racist tendencies.

As for the Hobo and the Gypsy: isn't the term "gypsy" interchangeable with "fortuneteller," for the most part? In that sense, a lot of the women were fortunetellers in this episode. We all witnessed Anna Draper play out Don's tarot cards at the end of last season for all to see. Will the women grant the men good or bad fortune in their responses to what they observe?

*Will Betty expose Don and ruin his carefully assembled life? Or will she acquiesce and grant him mercy, allowing him to continue in his good fortune? Betty gave Don good fortune.

*Will Suzanne flip out at being dumped, and ruin the reconciliation Don and Betty have seemingly reached in light of Don's confession? Or will she accept the end of their relationship and let Don continue in his good life? Suzanne gave Don good fortune, for now.

*Will Joan grant Greg his career wishes? Or will she continue to push him in directions he doesn't want to go? Joan appears to have granted Greg his wish.

I am pretty sure this analogy can be imposed on all the other male-female relationships in this episode(Roger-Annabel, Roger-Jane, Roger-Joan, etc.), but I leave that to those of you who are far more observant than I to do that.

Correction: My apologies to the women posters who did denounce Joan's actions. For some reason, your posts were not up when I started my last post...

@dondraperesq - Errr, he, RAPED her!!!! I think that might be grounds for whatever anger she may be holding inside!?!?!? And, yes, it is a chicken-before-the-egg situation - he raped her and, therefore, she has emotions she hasn't dealt with yet.

I'm not sayin' wives should go around clocking their husbands if they are whiners, but, I think it is understandable here why she crosses the line - it wasn't about whining was it?

@Dennis-I believe it's conscience. My mother always used that saying, luv it!

As always, I so enjoy reading everyone's take. I, too thought this was one of the best episodes this season. I don't want to reiterate what everyone has already said, because I'm in total agreement with the great acting, wonderful twists, etc. Just want to add my rah-rahs, esp to the insight of the regulars -Greg, rasputin, Jan 001, goodstuff, zabadu, zerelda, MsDMAC, MMJunkie, and the extremely sane bipolarbear :). Racy - where are you? I hope you are feeling ok, and where are you amybett? You are missed! My apologies if I didn't name you - you are all in my good thoughts...

Joan's clobbering Greg had nothing to do with built up anger for what we now consider rape. In a recent interview with New York Magazine, the actress who plays Joan states that Joan was not raped, it was a "bad date". Times have changed. We are shown in every episode of Mad Men that times have changed.

@MJinGA I fear our regulars have gone over to the Yahoo boards. Apparently their site is not powered by a Commodor 64.

First of all, it makes me crazy that so many of you claim to LOVE this show and yet are so critical of the acting, writing, timing etc. I LOVE this show and everything about it. I LOVED that Joan hit Greg in the head. It was the least she could do after she had put up with all of his nonsense, including rape! I think he got off easy. It's a story. It provides catharsis for many of us.

I loved the parallel stories between what happened to Sal and Roger. Both had clients who wanted more, both said no and you just know Roger will not get fired for his "no".

I cannot help but wonder how sincere Don's reaction was. I know he did a lot of confessing - he really had no choice. But he does know how to manipulate Betty. AND when he spoke to Suzanne on the phone he said it was over "for now", leaving it open to the possibility of his continuing to cheat on Betty. Does that sound like a man with a truly contrite heart? Yes, he went pale and dropped his ciggy, but I think that was out of fear of losing everything in his life, not just his relationship with Betty. And, yes, I too think he was contemplating running out that door and driving off with Miss Teacher. BTW the dropped cigarette scene alluding back to the one that caused the death of the real Don Draper was a great catch! (Sorry, I forgot who said it.)

I think January Jones is amazing. Anyone could easily play the victim wife, but she does it in an understated way that keeps you guessing what she's thinking. I knew she was tough (remember the shotgun scene?) and smart. Don underestimates her and has always tried to control her (the money, the psychiatrist, the a/c salesman). He can't control her any more and this is going to be an interesting change just as our nation is going through a very dramatic change. I cannot wait for next week!

@PanAm53 - I could not comment upon whatever her insights into her character are or what motivation she was given by her director to play her scenes subsequent to the "bad date", but I do respectfully disagree.

I do agree that times change, but that doesn't necessarily change the fact that, inherently, forcible sex = rape. It just changes what women are able to do, or not do, about it. I'm quite sure that African-Americans do not see the "times change" argument as justification for those individuals back in the day inflicting suffering upon them.

Okaaaay, mood killer! Next topic! How 'bout that Roger huh???

The will etc. I could have sworn that Gene told Betty that he was leaving her the house and her brother the business. Of course the furs too.
Anyone know who Betty was talking too in the preview? Sounded like she said " I think Don should know"

@goodstuff You took the words right out of my hands. I was thinking again about George Carlin's piece (courtesy of rnpen) on shell shock. You can change the name and add some more syllables, but it's still shell shock. Or rape.

@Dondraperesq I must confess, I thought it was comical. But you made me think about that. I suppose just about every time I see a woman assault a man on film, I think it's funny, but oh so not funny when it's the other way around. Thanks for making me think.

@goodstuff: Truly descipable conduct, I agree. You have to admit: Joan was submissive when Greg, then just her fiance, raped her on the floor of her boss' office. And yet she still married him AFTER that incident, didn't she? Joan had the opportunity to get out if she wanted. I have to question her judgment at the outset based on that incident alone. That old school thinking is the soul of her character, and dooms her character to tragedy.

I believe that episode was not a factor in her mind when she clocked him last night. She's over that terrible incident and well into the marriage now, trying to be supportive to her new husband and his ambitions. She was angry because her own fairytale hasn't come true either. She hit him right after he went on that silly rant, saying "You don't know what it's like wanting something for this long..." She envisioned herself lying around on a stack of pillows so long as she landed a doctor as a husband. I also think Joan acted on her anger last night because Greg failed or refused to take her good advice on how to interview for those psych jobs.

But Joan is getting her just rewards for not being more like Peggy. It's like Joan's own version of instant karma.

@goodstuff: Truly descipable conduct, I agree. You have to admit: Joan was submissive when Greg, then just her fiance, raped her on the floor of her boss' office. And yet she still married him AFTER that incident, didn't she? Joan had the opportunity to get out if she wanted. I have to question her judgment at the outset based on that incident alone. That old school thinking is the soul of her character, and dooms her character to tragedy.

I believe that episode was not a factor in her mind when she clocked him last night. She's over that terrible incident and well into the marriage now, trying to be supportive to her new husband and his ambitions. She was angry because her own fairytale hasn't come true either. She hit him right after he went on that silly rant, saying "You don't know what it's like wanting something for this long..." She envisioned herself lying around on a stack of pillows so long as she landed a doctor as a husband. I also think Joan acted on her anger last night because Greg failed or refused to take her good advice on how to interview for those psych jobs.

But Joan is getting her just rewards for not being more like Peggy. It's like Joan's own version of instant karma.

Wow. Betty can "out-imperious" Don. I was surprised he came so clean and told her everything - even about Adam. I couldn't believe how scared he was - looks like he does care about the life he leads with Betty. He wasn't that scared when Pete threatened, so either it was because he knew Cooper already knew, or he didn't care as much. This segment also answered the question of whether Betty would leave Don just because he'd been poor. I didn't understand her statement "I just thought you were a football hero who hated his dad"????

Joan surely over-reacted to Greg saying she didn't know how it felt to prepare for something and want it really bad for years and not have it come true. Maybe this is the confirmation that she was something else, or prepared to be something else before she went to SC. And just like some predicted, she went to Roger for help with a job.

Betty's brother is a brat. It seems when the lawyer said Betty would have a hard time getting a divorce "unless he wants out" and then tells her she wouldn't get anything and "he could take the children" he must have been saying she would have had to concede that *she* committed adultery. Otherwise there is no way she would lose the children.

This forum is humming along nicely today isn't it? Awesome.

@dondraperesq - I know that this topic was very thoroughly covered back when the episode aired, so I will not drag everyone through it again just for my sake. I respect your views of course. I would have to question your view that Joan had the opportunity to get out (truly, get out that is) and your view that she wishes to lay around on a stack of pillows, etc. I really feel that she is so frustrated that she cannot be taken seriously in the same job as a man because her physical attributes "doom" her to sex symbol status. You know how badly she wanted that job working on the tv ad campaign stuff!!

Sorry, sorry, I know, I'm dragging everyone....Love this show!

BTW, Dr. All-Thumbs' dad had a psychiatrist and he doesn't talk about it. I think he may be heading in the same direction - maybe bipolar? His character sure does swing.

I love Betty's newfound (?) strength. I think this is a turning point for the "Drapers". He doesn't have to run now. And finally, Roger and his one-liners are back - IMHO they were sorely missed. Can't wait for the wedding chaos!

I know that posters are missing Pete, Peggy, and the others at SC,as am I, but each ep can't have everyone. In due time we'll get the whole picture. I for one, am enjoying each week for itself.

Besides MF brother, I think Betty's brother will cause some issues as well.

Wow...an edge of seat riveting ep... super writing, direction acting, editing. So the "shoebox of Damocles" came down. (Full credit- phrase from some review, CRS on the authors name)

Rasputin... as ever, enjoyed your posts -- you have a great eye. Noticed Dons blanching pinched looks... so well done; and agree... Greg is somewhat early Brando-esque.

Sixties girl...Great point... I did notice it (with foreboding) and you posted it! Dons quiet remark: "yes, for now" when Suzanne says: so, its over. I wonder if we will see some of that in next ep, or will they wait till next season?

Don and Miss Farrell were not going to Norwich before the self-absorbed, shrewish dragon lady Betty ruined the good time they richly deserved. They were going to Mystic. Betty makes everybody want her to eat poo and die. To Betty, everything is all about "me, me me, MEEE."

@ MMJunkie :-(
@renatae - (Meant to include you as a long time reg - so sorry). I am really hoping MW does a back story on Betty and "Don". With her backround, it is suprising that she didn't meet someone through her college connections. How did she end up with Don?

@melbatoast, I caught that "for now" remark also. I don't think he's had time to think about the ramifications on his cheating side yet.

I think we'll see her next season. There's alot of loose ends to tie up with the remaining two episodes.

["Sorry,I have to say this: I am somewhat shocked at all the ratification of domestic violence by a lot of the women posting on this board. If the shoe were on the other foot, as it has been with Greg, it would be a much different story. Obviously things have not worked out to Joan's liking either, I get that. Dr. Butterfingers is obviously too self-consumed and whiny to consider Joan's feelings on the subject, or to even consult with her about a major career move that will undoubtedly uproot them and move them far away in less than hospitable conditions. Not exactly what Joan signed up for. Greg is clearly a jerk, but he is the jerk Joan chose to marry. That said, it should not be acceptable under any circumstances that one spouse physically assaults the other-- whether it be Greg on Joan in the office or Joan on Greg in the apartment. Another strike against Joan, in my book, along with her racist tendencies."]

I'm a woman and I have to agree. I dislike Greg. But Joan had chosen to marry him . . . even after what he had done to her. And now, it appears that she is just as capable of being violent. Smashing a vase over her husband's head, because he had said something that angered her? What in the hell was that? That is nothing to cheer about. All Joan had done was sink to Greg's level.

I too am disappointed that so many still want to be horrified about the "rape". Today, yes indeed, it would be called that, but we have to always remember that what is portrayed on this show is how it really was. Women were taught to "submit to their husbands". And you "made your bed and lied in it", etc. Women did not just up and divorce their husbands if things didn't go their way.

On another topic....So, we've seen Don cry. When will we ever see this man LAUGH? He's never laughed out loud or even risked a chuckle. When he smiles, it's in a wry way that seems that he's "above it all".

As for Betty, say what you will about her understated reactions to Don's story. Main Line girls, Bryn Mawr girls were taught to hold their emotions in check, to not be high-strung, be resolute and dignified in all situations. They were to never crumble or fall apart, She was clearly angry when she demanded he open the drawer, but she was in control. Not shrieky or shrewish. I think January Jones is playing this spendidly!

I don't think any of us are going to get over this episode anytime soon

just a couple things-

Betts is aloof. Cold. I remember in a long-ago episode of a season far, far away, she was asked why she was "sad" by what's-her-name's lover who couldn't ride a horse. Her response was "I'm not sad, I'm Norwegian." [I might have the nationality wrong]. Point is, January Jones doesn't get to emote -just yet any way. I'm not do sure that calling her s bad actress is fair.

Second. I'm wondering if Don's admonishments and disapproval leveled at Roger has anything to do with his good boy behavior.

Are we sure that wasn't Barbara Feldon? It sure looked like her!

@Zerelda: *I'm with you re: what you posted on the "Betty" thread. I wonder if it has someting to do with having both of one's parents deceased. Maybe you realize your nobody's little girl anymore and you learn how to deal with life in a more mature way.

This is a television show with recent history as a backdrop, almost a character unto itself. This is a show meant to be entertaining. It's not a documentary. Of all the things the various characters have done on this show (Roger riding a woman like a horse for instance) you choose Joan bopping her husband on the head to make a stand?! Sheesh! Were you all screaming over Don shoving Betty? And regardless of how rape was looked at back then, what Joan went through was much more humiliating than poor Greggy getting bopped on the head.

I couldn't agree more SixtiesGirl, out of all the wackiness that has gone on in the show for three season, Joan rightfully snaps after endlessly supporting her erratic husband, and suddenly people are screaming that it's too dramatic.

Sixties Girl: Couldn't agree with you more.

Well, I know rape when I see it. That wasn't rape. Joan is hot. She has that bod to give sublime pleasure. She knows, as they say, the score. It has been noted earlier that all the kvetching about rape seems to emanate from individuals having no reason to be concerned. They couldn't get raped if they held the would-be rapist at gunpoint. The subject of this thread is supposed to be Mad Men, not fantasies of rape. Such diversions should not be allowed.

Comment about rape and its ramifications for the person.
Rape is used to describe an action and a crime. The act is experienced as a personal assault against a person (overwhelmingly, it is a woman).

Most rape victims don't even respond immediately to being assaulted, which is not only physical, but emotional, mental, and psychological.
Rape is so traumatic that most victims act out in anger or depression much later and in seemingly odd ways.
It the 'good ole days' of the '60s, before everything changed, what happened to Joan was not even clearly defined as rape. She married him because she thought she loved him, had already planned to marry him, and in those days felt she "wasn't getting any younger", and Joan wasn't sure about how to define what he did to her. Who would have recognized it as rape then?
Men like Greg live in their own world of their making. A hit on the head with a thin vase, a loss of a promotion, a loss of friends, a marriage (hopefully), etc.
Women and men who got satisfaction out of Joan hitting Greg with the vase, are not advocating violence, and it is not fair for anyone to argue that they are or to try and minimize the rape Greg did or what Joan feels because of that and his other failings since their marriage.

@MontyCristo: You clearly missed my point. You obviously just want to argue that men are better than women. Your misogyny is nauseating.

Don't get baited into responding to trolls.

http://www.ecommerce-journal.com/articles/15195_online_safety_how_to_deal_with_internet_trolls?drgn=1

excellent description of specific trolls and ideas of why, but also how to respond. You may have to cut the link above and paste it into the search window, but it is a worthwhile read for the earnest discussion member.
Spread the word and good luck.

@fanomad: Thank you. Very helpful. :-)

You're welcome, SixtiesGirl. You had it figured out so I thought I'd post the link.

fanofmad: Sorry I misspelled your name.

Also wondering why Roger let Joan go if she's so important to him? Have I missed something?

So, to bring us back where we belong --- can someone tell me if Annabelle was played by Barbara Feldon?

No. it can't be Barbara Feldon, she is 68 years old.

Other posters have said that Annabelle was played by Mary Page Keller of Another World. It was definitely not Barbara Feldon.

Thanks hobocode52. Is she really? Wow. Well, she has a twin by a much younger mother.

First, have to say I'm loving all the new names popping up, please stick around, there's so many good posts this week.

Here's some other things to mull over: the Joan/vase/Dr G thing, I'm thinking, is her doing that kind of a symbol of her pent up frustrations with life in general not exactly working out as planned? Know what it's reminding me of? When Don totally dressed down Peggy and he was a little more than needed to be. I thought then that he's taking a lot out on her. Maybe that's what Joan's actions were about, the fuse gone way down and lashing out about more than just the moment.

The questions about Betty or Suzanne being the one for him. What I wonder is if there really is such a thing as "the one" for Don. Maybe there just is no "one". Thirteen has a really good separate thread going about the hobo and the gypsy so I'll spare the space here, but I'm thinking Don with women is kind of a gypsy, blowing in and out and never staying for good. If that really is Don, then there is no "one". Who knows, food for thought.

And this is hard obviously not being a woman but I felt Betty's reaction to Don wasn't acceptance of his secrets/lies, but just a maternal ( I know, ironic for Betty ) feminine first response. Women are generally more velvet glove than iron fist. I think there very well could be a boom to be lowered at some point, but in the moment I think she just reacted moreso than thought, and the shock of what she's hearing just led to an initial reaction that of comfort as a female instinct. I don't think it means there will be no trouble ahead and I don't think it means she's ok with it.

@ Greg - Thirteen had some good comments on the Joan reaction as well in a separate thread. I think she's definitely had it with the combination of what she expected and what he did promise her. I don't think she was unrealistic enough to think life was going to be wine and roses, but I definitely think Greg promised her things that would never be delivered due to his shortcomings. She's been let down again and again by this man and then he whines to her. Reminds me of a Bjork quote "If you complain once more, you'll face an army of me." More appropriate given Greg's new career path.

@Greg: regarding Betty's reaction to Don - so much must have been going through her mind. She must have felt relief that he really wasn't married before her. She probably also felt a little good about the fact he was finally opening up and shedding some light on his many secrets. Plus I think she felt real sympathy about his brother. But interwoven were thoughts of betrayal and fear of not ever being able to trust him. His created world blew up and her "perfect" world shattered. She seems to want to pick up the pieces but also watch his every move. It will be interesting to see the delayed reactions. So I agree with you.

What's "Thirteen"?

Personally, I enjoyed the vase to the back of the head. Would love to see Roger take a pie to the face at some point, though I found his scenes in this episode stellar. Maybe someone can pinch Pete's nostrils with some fireplace tongs before the season is over. nyuk nyuk nyuk.

I think Joan despises weakness in anyone. She's lost all respect for Greg (we all know how that started) and there he is blabbering about how she could never understand true disappointment. I agree that it's comparable to when Don inappropriately jumped all over Peggy. She was wrong to hit the guy with a vase, but I think it's telling that hecwas the one to apologize. Even as utterly clueless as he is, he knows he's losing her.

My hope is that many of the loose strings will find themselves over the next two episodes.

Thirteen is another poster here. Although it would be a good name to a super secret Mad Men themed speakeasy. The password is Milwaukee.

@MJinGa: Wow! That's a first! "and the extremely sane bipolarbear :)". May I quote you to the people who know me best? They would tend to disagree!

@dondraperesq: The juxtaposition of Joan and Peggy's mindsets intrigue me. Thru the seasons we've seen Joan's use of sex-appeal and the "feminine mystique" backfire while Peggy forges ahead with a completely new way of being a woman. Both women face many perils ahead. Peggy because she will find only limited acceptance as a woman doing a "man's job". Joan because, (as you so eloquently put it) her old school thinking will thwart her pursuit of happiness. Joan will soon find out what Betty is slowly discovering: being a wife and mother can only be gratifying if your husband isn't a jerk.

@LauriB: Great catch. You're right. We've never seen Don really smile or laugh. I can't even imagine the strength it takes to keep up that facade of his.

@All sane posters: Beware the troll. He's here. He's using 4 separate names. Just scroll by. Ignore him and he will go away when he doesn't get the attention he craves.

I think it's past his bedtime.

Sighhhh. and up until awhile ago, this thread had been so engaging. You're right.. ignore,ignore.

@Greg, I love reading your posts. You are so sensible. I don't think Betty is "ok" with it, she may never be. I just hope her and Don can resolve the issue somehow and make a fresh start.

I noticed on the previews that Betty says, "What am I supposed to do Don, they have a right to know." I'm thinking she's talking about the children. How would one go about explaining this to the kids, it's hard enough for adults to get their heads around it.

Thanks again Greg, keep up the good work.

@rmpen: I won't even try to guess to whom Betty is referring with that line: "they have a right to know". MW has a tendency to inter cut parts of scenes together during previews to deliberately throw us off. Would even Betty suggest trying to explain it to the kids? How would you even do that? And, we're assuming that line is in reference to Betty's new discovery regarding Don. It could have nothing to do with that.

*yawn* Nothing new or original at 9:19pm....

As I continue to digest the episode, I do have to wonder if this dramatic unveiling of Don Draper/Dick Whitman is really going to have that significant of an impact on Don, the husband and father. In fact, will it liberate him more as far as Betty is concerned? That moment when he says "not now" to Suzanne is key. Here he is, busted, but he is still working out his options. Betty herself is definitely going to take a wait-and-see approach, but I'm afraid that Don may be more free then ever. Did you notice how well it appeared that he slept that night after such an emotional confrontation with Betty? Sure, maybe he was just exhausted from the stress, but Im not so sure.

A dam has burst and a cathartic wave has washed over everyone.

Betty may not forgive Don, but she is sympathetic to him, while Don does not know how to react to her. When Betty confronted Don in the kitchen and he fumbled with his cigarette the look on her face showed that she had never seen Don like that. Her attitude towards him softened as he relayed the truth about his past. The circumstances of his entry into the world, an abusive father, crippling poverty, responsibility for the death of his brother, with each revelation we saw Betty’s anger diminish until finally she regarded him sympathetically. She tried to comfort him.

Don’s biggest secret is out in the open, he has faced his worst fear, and Betty not did leave him. Instead she has shown signs that she will embrace him. Could this be the key to the beginning of an emotionally nurturing relationship between the 2 of them ? I would like to be optimistic, but MW has implied that by the end of the series these 2 will probably be apart.

Their relationship is at a cross roads. Betty is not meek child-wife, and has asserted herself to the extent of causing her husband to break down and face the truth. She demonstrated that she is just as strong and no BS as the women we have seen Don have affairs with. But she is still different- blonde hair certainly, but she lacks the outsider looking in perspective that Don found attractive in Midge, Rachel, Bobbi, and Suzanne. Don was truthful when he told Betty that he was always surprised that she loved him. In many ways, Don has felt unworthy of Betty and inferior to her. With the women he has had affairs with, their own flaws allowed Don to relate to them on an equal basis thus allowing him to open up to them emotionally. Even though Betty may accept the truth and his motivation for hiding it, what has really changed between them ? He will come to respect her, but he will still feel inferior to her. Are his revelations and her acceptance enough to cause Don to emotionally embrace Betty ? Or will the revelations lead Don to fear that Betty could leave without notice, causing the complete unraveling of his life ? At the end of the episode, we saw a hesitant Don wait for Betty’s reaction before proceeding. What we saw was fear and a fundamental change in the balance of power. If the truth becomes something held over Don’s head like a sense of impending doom, then their future is doomed. If instead the truth becomes a leveling factor- they are both orphans and the products of emotionally distant parents- then they may be able to relate to each other as equals and be able to grow as partners in a marriage. Since the issue of Gene’s house was not settled yet and we know that potentially 1 sibling will have to buy out the other, possibly Betty will demand some of the stashed money to buy out her brother. Doing so would give Betty ownership of the house, and a place to go should she decide to leave Don. Again, more power for Betty.

Annabelle provided us with an insight into Roger’s emotional state. We can clearly see that Annabelle hurt him deeply and may be the root cause of his cavalier attitude towards women and life. In public and to Annabelle he is committed to Jane. Annabelle’s admission that Roger was “the one” prompts Roger to state that he did not regard her in the same light. The implication is that he is committed to Jane. But from his brief conversation with Joan and than latter placing a call to a friend on Joan’s behalf, are we not being shown that Joan may in fact be “The One” for Roger ? His interaction with Annabelle was motivated by her to correct the wrong decision she made years ago. What might have been ? This has an effect on Roger, not the effect desired by Annabelle, but an effect nonetheless. I disagree with Alan S here in that I thing Roger now wonders “what might have been” with Joan. He may love Jane, but Joan may be the love of his life.

Joan faces her deepest fear- that her life to this point was built upon a false dream. She has created her persona and focused her attention on landing a dream husband- a Doctor who will support her for the rest of her life. She succeeded in marrying a doctor, but discovered that in focusing so hard on 1 factor, she ended up with someone who she will have to emotionally support for a long time. He has failed as a Manhattan Surgeon and blew his Psychiatric program interview. His neat solution to their dilemma is to join the Army. He will be embraced as a surgeon, have the rank of Captain and will do his residency in NY. Problem solved. But as we know from our history books the Vietnam “thing” he refers to will become bigger and bleaker as the years unfold. By his joining the Army at this time, we are all but being told that he will become a casualty of the war. A widowed and grieving Joan will be consoled by Roger, who will recognize this as an opportunity at a second chance.

Can’t wait for the final 2 episodes !

@rnpen- As you put it, I don't think Betty is ok with this new knowledge, but she is coming to terms with it. She is going to use that new information to her advantage. Yet, I feel she wants to understand Don and will stand by him. She may not be happy about it but now that she knows, it is a whole new scenario for her and her family. She is going to do what is them. She is now the matriarch of the family and will play this role very well. As I said before she has grown up suddenly and now will be able to handle her children, her husband, her brother and anything else that is thrown her way.

@bipolarbear: Right again MM buddy

Re: Roger: any thoughts on why Jane and not Joan?

@jeffe64, she does want to stand by him. She loves him very much. But I think the most important thing here with Betty is her growth. She loves her children very much too and she will do the right thing for them as well as herself and Don. Don loves those kids too, I hope he doesn't jeopardize their lives by running away with Suzanne.

@rl1856: loved what you said about Annabelle providing us with insight into Roger's emotional state. But, again, I ask if Roger cares so much about Joan why isn't he with her? It can't be because she was an underling coworker - he married Jane. Maybe he thinks she's too smart for him. I don't know. I feel like I missed something. Any insights?

I really hope that the many regular posters, with their very insightful comments, do not abandon this board for the shelter of other venues. I understand the desire to do so, considering the tech problems with this site (be patient, AMC doesn't have a ton of cash!) and the repugnance of some posters (I haven't seen trolls this bad in a looong time!), but this is a wonderful place to come on a Monday after MM :)

A very appreciative lurker, WestchesterMom

This entire episode seemed to be filled with characters NOT behaving the way we assumed (and had been somewhat led to believe) that they would. This is not a new tactic---- remember MW deliberately misled viewers to think Peggy's sister's baby might be hers (like when the sister asked, "Don't you want to say goodnight to him?", etc).
We'd been somewhat set up to believe Teacher was going to go all wackadoodle on Don at some point; that Don was going to charm and lie his way out of Betty finding the box; that Betty was going to eviscerate Don for his lies and move back to her father's house with the kids; that sophisticated Roger would tire of the "soulless stick-figure" and drift into an easy affair with sophisticated Annabelle.
Instead, NONE of this happened---- everyone behaved in precisely the opposite manner. Don't get me wrong, I thought the acting was stellar (January Jones especially surprised me after being a wooden poker all season)..... but.... did ANYONE else feel the reactions rang somewhat hollow? Was Don actually manipulating Betty? Is Teacher just biding her time? (Remember Glenn Close also showed up at a morning train ride to surprise Michael Douglas in "Fatal Attraction"!) Is Betty really going to put up with this? Is Roger really the "sterling" knight in shining armor that he seems, always yammering about Jane being the true love of his life?
I dunno... I just kind of wonder if some real nasty surprises are ahead. It just all seemed too sweet and cozy and pat.

RL1856: All I can say is wow. You nailed it.. on all fronts.

So it looks like Roger's daughter doesn't want to get married now.

Dolfina you must Not be referring to my post. I didn't say anything about Manhattan or any city in my post.(read my post)
first avenue:......................................................
"Don was taking the Teacher to a hotel for a romantic-bootycall getaway, they had discussed it at her place. That is why she had a suitcase. HE WENT home to get some things and had her wait in the car. Don was NOT ever going to bring the Teacher in the house, they were going away".
End Quote
First avenue:.....................................................

I didn't say anything about Manhattan, so I'm NOT what you are talking about.

I loved the kids being show trick or treating it brought back memories. Ha! Fun.

January Jones was awesome in the episode. I agree with those who said she was. She and Jon were amazing. The scenes was riveting.

@SixtiesGirl: As my mother used to say: "timing is everything". Joan found her Dr. before Roger decided divorcing his wife was a good idea. At that point, Roger had started up with Jane. I still say Roger's line to Annabelle is key: "I finally found a carefree girl who isn't worried about the future." Even Joan would be worried about the future. Joan is actually mature enough to understand the implications of playing step-mom to Margaret. For Joan, Roger comes with too much baggage at this point. Maybe in season 5 Joan and Roger will somehow end up together. By then the honeymoon with Jane will be long over. The baggage Roger brings will start to wear on the marriage. And, if season 5 is set in '65, we could see Greg shipped to Nam for an extended stay. Any Dr.s around? Did a residency take 2 years back then? A year? Anyone?

@rl1856: Very insightful. I'm still holding out hope that the truth will set Don free--at least at home with Betty. That's one facade he won't have to keep at home. You make a very good observation that Don doesn't feel worthy of Betty. She is like a prize he has won that he's not sure what to do with now that he has her. In many ways, Don is going through the motions of family. He has created a family in accordance with what he thinks a family must be. He has no experience with a loving home and therefore is unequipped to provide one or genuinely participate. Everything he does with Betty and the kids is a sort of play act where he goes through the motions according to what he thinks goes on in a "normal" marriage. In many ways Don is more concerned with appearance than Betty. After all, his entire lively hood is built on appearances. He has succeeded in business by correctly interpreting the proper behavior required. In essence, his entire life is built around correctly guessing what others expect and doing it (or appearing to). He's done this so long he knows no other way.

Good Evening Maddicts!
I was busy last night, and have just now watched the epi twice, and it has driven me to drink!
Best episode of any television show I can recall!
The next two will be delicious icing on the cake :)

Don Draper cries and drops his cigarette!
“And who are you supposed to be?”

I didn’t think the Dick Whitman Sampler Box could get any more painful or gut wrenching…but when he talked about Adam…it tore me up!!!

The secret brings them Don and Betty closer!! (I did predict this one…*pats self on back*)

Betty: So calm, cool and in control, calling the shots, sewing costumes: REDEEMED!

Joan: That sad face over Dr.’s shoulder after the Vietnam announcement…Oh Boy!

“That woman got on a plane with the man who ended WWI, not run her father’s dog food company!”

Roger: Really loves Jane? Turns down an affair?: REDEEMED!

“Bingo looks sad!”

THE DOG FOOD SPEECH! (subtly veiled commentary on “Don Draper”)
“The product is good it’s high quality but the name has been poisoned”
“I’m not saying a new name is easy to find…but it’s a label on a can and it will be true because it will promise the quality of the product that’s inside”
“The name is done”
(@j9mac & @bipolar: you saw it too!!)

All Hallows Eve…twilight…Don enters his home and the spooks come out! The sun sets on “Don Draper”

“You’re a very very gifted storyteller!”

Halloween Costume Ideas:
Don – Hobo
Betty – The Madonna
Roger & Annabelle – Misfits
Bert – The Wizard of Oz?
Suzanne – Gypsy (see @hobocode….she’s thieving another woman’s husband?)
Joan – Queen Bee
Greg – Worker Bee
William – Vulture
Adam – Ghost

@Greg – Excellent about 3 pieces of luggage!

@aliasviva – You are blessed, go in peace! But come back and post again please ;)

@Bluerunner – Great Avatar!

@rasputin – Maybe around the jaw he looks like Brando? I see it too.

@60schick- I’d also try horse meat.

@fannan- Good Call on the Alpha Males, sometimes I think they are miraculously held together with flour and water!

@ddesq – Great reality check about Joan and the vase bashing….she stooped low, lower than our Joanie should have gone.

@LaurieB – Don did laugh out loud at the Hillbilly joke his father told during the motel hallucination, I remember thinking how odd it was at the time.

Our fav. troll's new user-name may be the only thing not made better by cheese, batter and a deep fryer…

P.S. There is still time....Suzanne could be boiling the water as we speak!

@bipolarbear: You are so right on about the timing and Roger's line about having a carefree girl who is isn't worried about the future. Wow. It makes you really appreciate the writing - every word counts. And I didn't even think about Rogers' daughter - of course you're right.

@producerbonnie: Yes, I can't help but be on guard too. It's awfully hard to trust all these characters, especially Don/Dick. I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt this way. Thanks.

@bipolar good point on the roger-Joan connection working out. Besides he is to old to take any blunt force trauma to the skull.

@amybett: Thank you so much for the big guffaw! Your line about the troll was priceless!

I hope whenever this series does end it has alot of happy endings

@producerbonnie: I read your post again and I think you were very perceptive about every character acting the opposite way of how we expected them to act. Maybe this is the new Halloween tradition. You know how The Simpsons always have a special for Halloween? Perhaps Mad Men will have a special episode every year where all the characters surprise us with their opposite behavior. Okay, now I'm just getting punchy...night, night....

Me too, sixties gir, this computer is giving me a headache

Good night to all Maddicts

It is really a shame that AMC does not care enough to monitor their site to keep it free from people who just want to provoke others at the expense of the fans who wish to just discuss current and future Mad Men episodes.

I think Alpo is the company that used horse meat. The plant is just down the road from where I live. I remember when I first moved here in the 70's, there were rumors that the horses that roamed on the property there were being used in the dog food.

Hi, all,
This is my first post, too. I've never been a faithful viewer of any TV series, but MM has me by the throat. The attraction for me is the time period (I, born in Nov. 1963), the clever dialogue, and care for detail. I've enjoyed your comments. Here's one of mine. What did you all make of that snappy dialogue (pregnant with meaning, of course, through all of its body language) between Don and Betty on the subject of "what you want."

Don wakes up with a look that reminds me of Scrooge after a night with the apparitions of the past, present (and future?)
At breakfast:
Betty: Do you want anything?
Don: (with a kind of hopeful look) Are you having something?
Betty: The answer comes in one long stare (like and x-ray). He tenderly caresses her head, says he'll see her tonight, and with a meaningful backward look (more than a glance), heads off to work.

Later before TOTing:

Betty: Do you want anything?
Don: (now downcast, perhaps resigned) No.
Betty says nothing, but gets up quite effortlessly to share with him the "food" on her plate. She gives him the rest, which he munches down readily. The kids are jumping around madly "can we go, yet? what's taking so long?" (boy, do I remember that as a kid!)

Now, there are several ways of reading this, of course (and won't pretend that I get them all). It obviously has to do with "feeding" set in a seemingly meaningless domestic scene. But at a deeper level, I think these scenes have to do with the complex and basic issue of human need and sustenance in love/relationship/sex/power (indeed, the subject of the entire series). My preferred interpretation: The morning after (Don spills his guts) she's asking "do you want anything" (i.e. do you want me? What can I give you?). Don's tenuous response seems to ask "would you share it (have it) with me?" (Don's not usually that uncertain. And he still has that pale look about him from the previous night.) By the evening, the dynamic has changed. He's had a long think--no appointments to distract him--and undoubtedly she has, too. Now he seems more certain, but his downcast look-- which expresses sheepishness, shame, or is it emotional exhaustion?--shows us that it's an act. The revelation has clearly weakened him. "No," he says (i.e. I can't ask you for anything, can't or shouldn't want or need anything from you). But without a moment's hesitation, she offers him what he needs: basic sustenance, but also, I think, a deeper offering that stems from her caring? She's showing him, and us, that it's easy for her to give when she's in a stronger position.
Well, obviously, I prefer to read this positively, in favor of their relationship. (It bothers me to see them off the rails.) Despite everything--and here I reiterate what many of you have already said--they love each other. And I hope they've learned something here (certainly we have): that their relationship will be far more successful when they both have power to give and to take from each other. She now has some power . . . and she share it. He's not sure whether she wants to take part in this family event with him. Perhaps, he suggests, they should do their part of the TOTing separately. She cocks her head as if to say "really?, oh come on." So, for the moment, these extremely well directed scenes tell me that there is a lot of investment in this marriage. They're okay for this moment. Heavens no, we're not done with this. I suspect that MW will bring it out again and again to drive 'em apart and then bring 'em back together again. Details notwithstanding, there's something very real about this dynamic between Don and Betty. Married folks? Who'll back me up?

@Amybett you forgot about Sal and Cosgrove's halloween costumes. They would make great fairies.

@theprof: I'll back you up. That was a beautiful observation and well expressed. Are you sure you're not one of the writers? Well done. I thought of Scrooge too. And I knew their interactions were significant, but you said it so well. Now I know why I just had to check the blog one last time...yes, yes, it has me by the throat as well. I can't believe how fun this is. Welcome!

Hi Y'all...everyone is looking so deep for symbolism...so I thought I would try too! Remember in the first episode Don tells Rachel M. "what you call love was invented by guys like me." This is a show about advertising...they tell us how to feel to sell us things. Betty does not know how to feel about Don lying to her...the lawyer says so what?...you got a provider and three kids. The reality she is looking for doesn't exist...it was created in an ad campaign...she confronts him and he needs a drink...this episode brought to you by Canadian Club!...If you thought the fact the bottle's label was pointing to the camera was coincidental you don't understand the show. All the expectations we feel were taught to us so someone could make money! Roger confronting his pre - war fling while out spending a boat load of money...can't have meaningful moments without spending money, right?

Married 33 plus years....and yes, I can attest (at least in this one particular marriage) that there are definitely ups and downs...but, if love is present, anything, ANYTHING can be overcome.

Love is the greatest power on earth.

Hello everyone,
This episode was one of the best so far...

Roger trying to be a good boy... and when Annabelle says "I'm glad you found the
one"...knowing he actually lost her...love the scene between him and Joan

Betty: everytime she's about to leave Don, she gets pulled back in, like the mob... I was really hoping she went through with it and left him this time. I think Don sunk to his lowest by cheating so close to home and with someone the whole family knew. I love how strong Betty was in this episode and Don was like a child waiting for his punishment lol...before Don walked through that door I was disgusted with him, then completely sympathetic afterwards.

Farrell seems lonely and pathetic to me...going after students fathers...god I hope she wasn't "the one"...and Don says "not rignt now", regarding him seeing her again. I wonder if he meant it.

I'm tired of Dons indiscretions at Betty's expense. I don't understand what Don keeps fighting for. He doesn't want to leave Betty but he won't change either. I don't know that he's torturing himself as much as he's torturing Betty. Anna mentioned he is unhappy because he feels he is alone. He was carrying the weight of his secrets on his own... Now that he's revealed this to Betty and he sees how understanding she is, will things change? Will he realize she DOES love him? because I don't see how they will continue the way they've been...

All of you Joan partisans thinking that Roger and Joan are actually going to get together again are forgetting that Roger began dating Jane just to spite Joan. Joan called it off with Roger just before his first heart attack over Labor Day weekend in 1960. Roger returned briefly for a business meeting and so eloquently and romantically proclaimed Joan to be the "best piece of ass" he'd ever had. (I'm telling you, if any of your respective husbands/boyfriends ever said that, that would be the end of it.) He eventually returned to the office and got into a few awkward, jealous moments with Joan. Roger undermined Joan's authority in the office by un-firing Jane following her insubordination to Joan. Then he took up with Jane and had her spy on Don. Eventually, Roger became so enthusiastic for Jane that he became the prototype for Tom Cruise circa 2005 with Katie Holmes. Joan CREATED Jane. She will not be able to undo that knot.

@theprof - It was perfect wasn't it.

Has anyone thought how this may make Betty feel later on? I mean she is a good person, loves Don, good parent,all that. But remember how she was raised. Will she later start to be concerned about her children's lineage?

good question blue runner.

theprof: I love, love, love your post.

Love this show but one thing bothers me. Too much time is given to Don. Some of the other actors maybe get a few seconds every other show, when I have to look at Don 99% of the time.

"And now we know how Frank Burns got into the Army."

LOL!!

Polarbear: Thanks for such and insightful and sensitive analysis of Suzanne. I really felt sorry for her out in the car waiting. Can you imagine a more humiliating situation? She lives two miles away and had to walk back with a suitcase. She really loved him and she is a good person. I hope we see her again in season four.
Goodstuff: I agree with you about JJ's acting skills. It is obvious that she needs a lot of direction. The director is good though in getting the most out of her. She is still light years behind JH, but she keeps getting better IMO.

"If I were Betty, I'd hold out for air conditioning! Especially after Don's reaction to her even talking to a salesman last season. The guy is sittin' on half a million in '63 and they don't have ONE window unit in that house."

That's one detail the show keeps missing--wouldn't there be electric fans all over the house? Certainly at least one in the kitchen or master bedroom? The house isn't one of those Victorian ones which were designed so that leaving the doors open in the summer would ventilate well.

What if Miss Farrell went home and did herself in, like Sopranos car saleswoman? It is Trick or Treat time , afterall.

"But Joan is getting her just rewards for not being more like Peggy. It's like Joan's own version of instant karma."

_Thank_ you. It's amazing how people forget how condescending, petty power-trippin', and "I'm the queen bee and you're a mouseburger" Joan was to Peggy from day one. And her swanning around after she got engaged and lording it over the other women--ugh. Sure, she's a savvy, formidable person. But a woman who uses power to keep other women down and reinforce sexism is essentially weak. Except for her rape (which was horrifying), It's been most gratifying to see Joan's picket-fence fantasy fall apart, just in the same way it would be to see one's high school Mean Girl nemesis realize how empty her "looks uber alles" life has been later in life.

What an amazing episode! One of the best ever. John Hamm deserves an Emmy for sure. And January Jones was also brilliant.

@pork pies and pill boxes - re: the theme of paradise lost, don't also forget Joan's dream of having a doctor husband. I think we all know that that dream just isn't coming true, whether he joins the army or not.

@theprof - I noticed the "do you want anything?" as well. Wasn't quite sure of what it meant but you've cleared it up well, thanks.

This was the first time in a really long time I've felt true compassion for Don. I think this is because when Betty confronted him, he stopped being Don and became Dick. I know Betty felt compassion, but she came across as really COLD. Yes, Don lied, yes he had his mistress in the car outside, but this was the most amazing, biggest thing for him to open up about. He obviously found it difficult and painful and all Betty really offered (physically) was to get him a drink and a tentative hand on his shoulder. I was screaming - 'just give him a hug!'. That's one of the reasons Don cheats - he's hungry for affection and tenderness (which he was so hungry for in his childhood).

This exchange was the most intimate (emotionally) they have been ever in the whole 3 seasons, and I think this could really be the start of them working on their relationship. Yes, they really do love each other but they won't survive if they don't start being more honest and intimate with each other.

Best lines from Betty -
"I know you know I know what's in there" - the look on Don's face was incredible! I think that's when Dick came to the surface.

"Isn't that against the law?" (when Don tells he took the name of a dead soldier). That just seems a silly question to me.

As for Miss Farrell - I still don't like her. I think what she said this episode about getting attached to Don and knowing that she has to be strong when it's all over - I think this foreshadows the difficulty she is going to have saying goodbye to Don. I think this will manifest somehow in coming episodes (even next season). Whether some predictions on here come true and she commits suicide, or ends up pregnant, or just keeps up the contact with Don (hang-up phone calls, maybe), I don't know. I don't think she's going to be malicious, nasty, whatever, but I think she's seriously sad about how this has ended.

I took the Gypsy and the Hobo to be Don and Suzanne.

Great episode last night, best this season.

Here's my take on it
http://seanliquorish.co.uk/blog/?p=32

I liked when Suzanne had to do the slut's walk of shame. All 2 miles with her bag haha

Great post @theprof. There is definitely a power struggle in every marriage, and the power has shifted in Betty's favor (you don't understand about money).

Can we stop the debate about the date rape? Enough already. Thanks.

Oh, best line ever: Who are you supposed to be???

@ Carolyn

I am not the first to go down this path. Here is a thread from 2008.

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/omfgdon-could-t.php

And for the record, I never been to the websites you mention.

@BlueRunner: Why do you say it looks like Margaret doesn't want to get married? Did you read or see something?

Sal and Ken should not be dressed as fairies.

Sal - A closet
Ken - A maple tree with a sap pipe at the appropriate location.
-------------------------

Joan (certainly not a post-feminist viewpoint) saw the "encounter" on the boss's office floor as a "bad date." It certainly wasn't her first and she probably viewed it as part and parcel of her personality and the aggressive, take charge, personality of guys she dated. No wimps for Joanie!

Re: Dr. Greg's "You don't know what it's like!"
True, Joan has had some major disappointments but nothing like his.

Dr. Greg has been working hard, getting his ticket punched every step on his way to becoming chief surgical resident. Probably decided to become a doctor/surgeon in high school, pre-med major in college, four years of med school, one year internship, two-three years of residency. He's 18+4+4+1+3 = thirty years old and, at most, might have made what she has and all that in the past four years. Becoming a surgeon is all about delayed gratification. Now look at Joanie...

Joan went through college and got a job, probably first in retail and then at SC for ten years where she rose to the top of her profession and was paid as such. She was dating, checking out possible marriage prospects and having fun in the City for over ten years. Not any delayed gratification that I see.

Sure, she's disappointed in how things have turned out in their marriage and that he's whining about it but she can't feel half the gut-churning anguish he does. This is what he'd wanted his entire life! Whereas for her, it's two years that she's even known him, much less being heavily involved.

So just to be clear: are we saying that Annabelle really WAS "the one" to Roger, broke his heart, and by him telling her that she wasn't the one, that's just his way of making her think he "just wasn't that into" her. But I think she knows that's a false front, doesn't she?

Anybody? I'm sometimes rather dense about these things. My friends call me a flirting retard for a reason.

Like everyone else, I loved the episode. I've laughed many times while watching and I've been shocked (John Deer tractor episode) but I've never really felt emotional like I did with JH and JJ scenes together. It all felt very genuine.
I think we're seeing a reinforcement of the sentiment that you should delay when you're not in a position of power. Betty definitely gained alot of power this episode by not confronting Don immediately after making her discovery. She certainly was the one in control when dealing with Don. It was almost shocking how much her behavior and demeanor had changed and "grown-up". There was no house cat in tonight's episode!

@Evil Homer - to quote:

"Hi Y'all...everyone is looking so deep for symbolism...so I thought I would try too! Remember in the first episode Don tells Rachel M. "what you call love was invented by guys like me." This is a show about advertising...they tell us how to feel to sell us things. Betty does not know how to feel about Don lying to her...the lawyer says so what?...you got a provider and three kids. The reality she is looking for doesn't exist...it was created in an ad campaign...she confronts him and he needs a drink...this episode brought to you by Canadian Club!...If you thought the fact the bottle's label was pointing to the camera was coincidental you don't understand the show. All the expectations we feel were taught to us so someone could make money! Roger confronting his pre - war fling while out spending a boat load of money...can't have meaningful moments without spending money, right?"

Your comments are so true, I thought it worth posting them again. I wonder if MadMen will discuss Marshall McLuhan next season? His famous quote came out in 1964.

Another of his "All media exist to invest our lives with artificial perceptions and arbitrary values."

And another, "Ideally, advertising aims at the goal of a programmed harmony among all human impulses and aspirations and endeavors. Using handicraft methods, it stretches out toward the ultimate electronic goal of a collective consciousness."

Prior to radio and tv, each person's ideas were formed more genuinely and uniquely, with leisure time devoted to music, conversation, books, hobbies, etc.

"The name is done." I thought this episode represented the end of the Dick Whitman/Don Draper as a major plot point. It's now been revealed in both his personal and professional lives.

Dick was Caldecott Farms; Don is the rebrand--same ingredients, new name, new image. Dick would never have been allowed into the world that Don rules.

Great episode!

The moment I saw Betty behind her father's desk, ignoring her pertulant younger brother, I saw the beginning signs of a woman who's about to take control of the situation. Her conversation with Milton,combined with insight gained from an earlier chat with Helen Bishop last season , has shown that she doesn't have many options now and her best bet is to hold her fire and make this thing with Don work out.
In all of Betty's travails, we've never seen her break into tears... Tantrums, yes, and they are immediately dismissed. She's been petted and humored but never taken seriously... I think it's all about to change..."Look at you, figuring out things for yourself." INDEED!!!
She heads back home with some kind of plan but throws it all over when Don unwinds his tale...Betty is still in charge, she listens, does not make concessions. Don is out of control, shakin like a leaf and has his new girl in his car on the street... He doesn't give Ms Farrell a 2nd thot and can only focus on the whirlwind who is Betty and how best he can manage her expectations....
As he escaped to that brown plaid kitchen, I fully expected to find Archie in a dark corner, ready to laugh and berate him further....
Is this the beginning of a modified relationship for the Drapers? Imagine, a thing like that....

Now that most of Don's secrets are out, what will be his stress motivator. Men like Don work well under pressure and without that, they get fat and lazy. Is Suzanne enough to keep Don on edge and in the game. I was surprised that she didnt come inside with her heels in her hand completely naked and start calling his name. Or maybe stay in the car and start blowing the horn. I think we all were surprised at how well she handled the situation for Don's part. Steve Phillips wasnt so lucky!

Nana B, excellent, I had not thought of Archie sitting in the corner, but that would have been the perfect icing to Don's humiliation cake

The MD after Greg Harris' name stands for "Major Disappointment."

"You don't know what it's like to want something for so long and not get it"? Sure, Greg....like right now when Joan has it hit her full blast hat she sure didn't get what she wanted when she married you. Hence the vase crashing down on the back of your cranium.

hasn't anyone realized that MF thinks that Betty caught on about Don's affair with her? She asked if she should be worried about her job and he doesn't bother to tell her that she wasn't implicated. Imagine the scene when Betts and Miss Ferrell accidently meet.

@Kimmer: You're right. all he said is "it's more complicated than that", leaving her to assume that not only did he get busted, but extenuating circumstances are involved to boot. Do you think he meant to mislead her or did he mean "ha! you think she's on the warpath about another affair? nah... this time it's about me being a whole different guy with a different name, a AWOL, fake I.D. and an ex-wife she didn't know about. Puh-leez!"

I think it's funny that posters here refer to her as MF (MIss Farrell) rather than SF (Suzanne Farrell) as though she's all of our teacher.

@kimmer Yes, I did catch that. "Were you caught?" And he says something like "sort of". Suzanne thinks he's been found out, and he has been, just not in the way she rightfully assumes.

Jon Hamm was, as usual, superb. I wish I could say the same for January Jones. Don't misunderstand, I think she is a beautiful woman and love the Betty character, I just wish January Jones would do her character more justice. She makes Betty feel more like a character than a person. I guess what I'm saying is that whenever there is a scene with January Jones, it really feels unnatural, like it is being acted. By contrast, you lose yourself in Jon Hamm's performance of Don. Don becomes a real person with depth of character. Regardless, I was so happy that Betty confronted Don.

I still very much dislike Miss Farrell. I hope that we've seen the last of her. I'm just too old fashioned to want anything serious to ever come from Don's indiscretions. If Betty were a bad wife, I'd feel differently. I think she wants to be a good wife. I really believe Betty could be very happy if Don was happy in their life together. (Didn't she say something to that effect in Season 1 or 2?)

I have to say I don't agree with those who've had a change of heart regarding Miss Farrell. While it is true that she did not storm into his house when left in the car, I don't think that says anything good about her. Rather, as a few have speculated, it has probably more to do with her "knowing the score." She clearly has been through this before. No matter what she ever says or does, I'll never be able to "get over" the fact that she initiated the affair (drunk phone call to the Draper House - the home of a student, a student whose mother is expecting a new baby!), seduced Don with her repeated flirtation (any conversation they had after the phone call made it clear what she was after) and then tried to rope him in deeply by involving him in her life with her brother. What kind of a good person does these things especially when she knows the consequences of the affair could destroy the Draper Family? How does she do that to the family of a child who was entrusted into her care as a teacher? Someone who does such a think is selfish and manipulative, not sweet and caring. Sorry, but I'm old fashioned.

I'd love to see Don fall in love with Betty. I mean really really fall in love with her. Court her, turn her head, and treat her like she is the one thing in his life that makes it all worthwhile. (Kind of like he does with his 'conquests.') He put as much in writing but NEVER seems to say it with his actions. I'd love to see Betty happy. Really really happy (though I question whether January Jones can make it seem sincere). I think Don can still be an interesting character without all the infidelity. I have such a love/hate relationship with Don.

Anyway, love the show and can't wait for the next episode.

@LaurieB- "I think it's funny that posters here refer to her as MF (MIss Farrell) rather than SF (Suzanne Farrell) as though she's all of our teacher."

For me, it is done intentionally. I want to stress that she is/was Sally's teacher - - I obviously don't like the predatorial Suzanne Farrell.

I too am a newbie to this site. I have never been sucked into a tv show and discussions before. I'm getting so little housework done.
This episode was amazing.I am so sympathetic to Betty- I know she is cold- but first season she wasn't. She was very affectionate, sexual and loving to him, and nicer to the children, and consistently has become more withdrawn and short tempered through 3 seasons of cheating and dishonesty.
I think that she has initiated sex and been turned down by him more often than she has rejected him.
Which makes me wonder: does Dick Whitman care for Betty? or was she just the trophy he felt a "Don Draper"should have had. (The scene in Cal with Anna gives me hope that this was not the case.)
Was Suzanne the One, or just another escape valve he won't need any more? I was reassured by his statement to Betty in the kitchen:"I am not going anywhere."
I think the Betty story line for me represents the vulnerability that all women face when they marry and have children- especially if they give up a career. The betrayal of trust when your spouse is a liar and a cheat is excruciating, esp if like Betty she had other choices.
There are no happy honest marriages in MM, and that is sad. I'm hoping against all hope that MW has read more than John Cheever and maybe knows Somerset Maugham and can illustrate the redemption of a marriage.

Wow! So many great comments.

Penultimate: Loved your analysis of the role of advertising. Bringing in Marshall "The medium is the Message" MacLuhan.

Your last sentence is particularly profound about how people's ideas were formed more naturally before radio and TV.
After your post for some reason I pictured a stark scene of a depression era dirt farm with a young boy looking at some sort of carving on a fence post.

I was glad that Betty confronted Don about what she found, instead of sulking like a child. But where can she go from here? She won't file for divorce for several reasons...

1. She despises the thought of being a divorced woman.
2. Being a divorced mother of three (to her) is a fate worse than death.
3. It will make her look stupid for marrying a man that she knew absolutely nothing about in the first place.

I'm afraid Betty and Don are now emotionally chained together. Good times are ahead!

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I wonder if the future for Sally and Bobby (is that his name? Poor child is hardly ever addressed) will be the gypsy and the hobo?

Something I thought kinda funny. Earlier in the episode, both Sally and Bobby express that they want to be "Minnie Mouse" and "an astronaut" for Halloween. At the end, you see they're the gypsy and the hobo. Which is exactly how it was. Children wore what their mothers were able to pull off as costumers back then. Everything depended on sewing skills and imagination.