Hi Thirteen!

Great post! If you follow Dr Freud's work at all, I guess you could call this episode the "Id".

Many of the Betty/Carla conversations make me squirm. As I said on the main episode thread, I couldn't believe Betty telling Carla (who was in tears after hearing about the death of the little girls in the Birmingham church bombing), that maybe it's just not the right time for the Civil Rights movement!!
Was that supposed to make Carla feel better!!??

From what I have read about this period in American history (the true history),
before The Civil Rights Movement and Laws, ALL Americans were told they were really free, had all the opportunities they could ever want to make a better life in this Country.
I think a lot of white Americans believed this.
The black Americans knew it wasn't so.
And it really took the media, particularly TV to bring it into white Americans homes to realize something was not right.

Unfortunately, some white Americans did not, or would not realize it, and more unfortunate, is that so many in 2009 still haven't.

OK...I'll get off my soap box now!

@13: You hate White people. You hate Americans. Leave Americans alone, especially White people. You are a bigot.

@60schild: Black folks fled the south and went up north to find work. Learn history. You want to read about slavery. Read about the Irish plight.

@13: I misread. I thought it was you that hates White people. Sorry about that, unless you are as bigoted as 60schild.

@60schild: You hate White people. You hate Americans. Leave Americans alone, especially White people. You are a bigot.

Loves Mad Men, I am confused!
This IS American history!

First of all I am a white 100% Irish American.

I know the history of the Irish very well. Not only in Ireland.
When my grandparents came here they were discriminated against. "Irish need not apply" was what they found as the American dream.
My grandfathers, grand uncles were laborers, and my grandmothers, grand aunts were domestics.

Your comments scare me!

"I want what I want when I want it!"

Here is my list of everyone's wants/needs:

Baby Gene-wants to be fed
Sally- wants pencil case/bag
Peggy/Kurt/Smitty-want Don to like their ads
Connie-want the moon!
Don- wants to make Connie happy and wants teacher
Lee Garner-want Sal/wants Sal fired
Betty -wants Henry
Harry-wants to handle situation so he doesn't look dumb (but does)
Paul-wants to know who was on the phone
Pete-wants to trying smoking
Carla-wants to hear radio broadcast
Ms Farrell-wants to hear radio and wants Don
Roger-wants to keep Lucky Strike account

I hope I haven't left any out!

Hi jeffe64!

Graet list! The only thing I could add:
Sal-wants his job

I don't think Betty was acting harshly towards Carla. I think she sees the Civil Rights Movement as simply a very dangerous and risky undertaking for black people, and something best put off till later. Naturally that can't be done, since all upheaval carries risk and death for some. "Waiting" to stop discrimination was not an option.
Not that I'm comparing Betty's situation with Carla's in any way, but Betty is procrastinating on huge issues in her own life. She needs to be liberated from a cheating husband and the subsequent damage of a miserable marriage. Her fantasies with Henry could be realized if she just had the courage to step outside the box and grab the opportunity. Sometimes you just have to step up and do battle to get what you want but Betty's not a risktaker....for now, anyway. If she ever finds out about Ms. Farrell, that could be the dealbreaker.

Hi 60's child! Thanks for reminding me about poor Sal!

Here are a few I forgot about:

Henry- wanted to see Betty
Lee -wanted commercial done his way
Henry-wants to know what Betty wants ("I don't know what you want!")
Don-wants a father figure
Bobby-(didn't) want salad
Carla-wanted to make Bobby happy by offering something else to eat.
Don-wants coffee at work("I want this, coffee, then Hilton")
Don-wants coffee with jogging teacher
Sal-(doesn't) want Kitty to worry/(doesn't) want to tell her

@Jeffe64: LOL! Great lists! Though we might want to separate out those who are screaming like babies when they don't get what they want from those who have real, understandable wants--like MLK wanting racial equality.

Which of those on the list with their demands were acting like big babies? Especially when they didn't get what they wanted?

P.S. Good catch on the pencil box and the salad! I forgot about those!

@60s; You're the scary one. You are spacey like Don's new girlfriend. You can't even spell correctly.

@Loves Mad Men: You are being TOTALLY out of order.

Hi wasthere!

Thank you for your support!
I have never been attacked on this Forum, and I've belonged for over a year. I'm a little in shock, and not sure how to respond.
At this point I won't be responding to any of Loves Mad Men's posts.

I'm sorry that this person is using Joan's picture as an avatar.

Connie says he knows calling Don at home is a privilege, and he doesn't think he's abused that privilege. Yet it's 11:30 p.m. and he's awakening a household with three children, one an infant. Think that's not abusing the privilege, Connie?

Jolie-- you make some very astute observations, especially regarding Betty's procrastination. And you're right, it's impossible to compare Betty's and Carla's situations. But what she said to Carla at that particular moment was devastating in its insensitivity,don't you think? Intentional or not.

Got yer back, 60sChild. This has occurred before, if I remember correctly, with other posters.

Jeffe, I got a kick out of your list. I will only add Pete wants to know what the hell? :-)

Hi fifty-two!

Thanks so much!!
I figured out how to check a history on posters comments, and found exactly what you said. This person has attacked other posters, and seems to make inflammatory comments to provoke other posters.

This has been such a great Forum, I hate to see some people try to destroy it. It's sad...

Bumping so I can read posts.

@fifty-two: Yes, Betty should have commiserated with Carla that the killings were horrible and then stopped right there. It's just that Betty's way of protesting is to gather names on a petition, put on her white gloves and sit in at the town council meeting. Not that there's anything wrong with peaceful protest, but Betty doesn't seem to get it that something as huge as the Civil Rights Movement was so volatile, and that outbreaks of violence were happening to push everything to the surface. Betty likes order...and if people were getting killed, maybe the whole thing was getting out of hand. Betty doesn't appear to be a news watcher or else she sticks her head in the sand (or she can't walk around in Carla's shoes to gain a real understanding).

It does make you wonder when or if these characters will ever grow up. The only one who handled things in a mature manner was Sal and look what happened to him.

Wow, 60's, looks like you've joined the Flamed and Lived to Tell About It club, bless your heart....icky, for sure....I'm a member (about five times over!), as are many Maddicts, just like fifty-two says.

It ain't fatal, but, it does feel like it at first.

It'll only make you stronger.

I agree with wasthere, that kind of crap is TOTALLY out of order.

I guess I'm surprised it took this long, sad to say. (meaning if you've been on the forum over a year and this is your first flaming) A sad fact of forum life, unfortunately.

Hang in there, kid, you know it's not true, we know it's not true....that's all that matters.

Thirteen, I don't see Carla working like a slave. Plenty of white women were maids in those days. Carla gets treated pretty well as far as I can see. She and Betty work as a team taking care of the house and the kids - it is clear to me that Betty values Carla.

I don't think Betty was being heartless about those 4 little girls in Birmingham. I remember my parents and other adults talking about things at that time. No one in the North had a high opinion of "the South," and as one character said, "It's not 1963, it's 1863." I heard adults say, "They're still fighting the Civil War down there." It was just accepted at that time that there was a lot of violence down there and it had actually been going on for decades.

@egyptbelle, you are so right about Hilton calling at 11:30 p.m. I remember the phone etiquette at that time was not call anyone after 10 p.m. Conrad Hilton was beyond eccentric and falls into the nutjob category, in my humble opinion.

Hi SCfan!

Thanks so much for the kind words!

You were one of the first Maddicts I remember from this Forum, and you have always been polite, funny, and insightful!

I guess I can be proud to belong to the "flamed and lived to tell about it" club!

We've got your back, 60's child. ;o) SCfan is printing up membership cards for all of us. You are in good company. Cheers.

Yeah, Drink! (Hidey, BTW.... and where you been?)

How should we word them....? (our "flamed club" membership cards, that is)

Flamed And Lived To Tell About It

OR

Maddicts Love The Heat

those are my suggestions.....Surely someone can come up with better ones than those.....???

hmmmmm

...And thanks, 60's ("polite, funny and insighful").....would that it were true!

I try to be kind, but I don't always hit the mark!

Hi Drink & Smoke!

Thank you so much for being there! Cheers to you!
I'm with SCfan...where have you been? You've been greatly missed!! The membership cards sound like a great idea!

Hi SC!
What I said is true! If it wasn't, I wouldn't still be here! Thanks!
I love your ideas for the card!

Oh, you know me...I'm still around. Been waiting to post on a thread that has less than 1200 posts. Good to see both of your avatars still posting. I'm buying both of you a cyberspace drink to put out the flames. A round of Old Fashioned's anyone? Cheers.

.....Charred But Not Barred

......Hot But Not Shot

.....Roasted But Still Posted

(lame, I know)....any other ideas???

.....Boiled But Not Foiled

.....????

Thanks for the drink, Drink. (ha!)

I needed that!

Here's a round of Irish Coffees for you all....if you don't like them, I'll drink yours! heee

And thanks for the compliment, 60's, you are too kind. I enjoy your posts immensely......and Drink's and Dry's (where'd SHE go??) and zerelda's and zab's, and wasthere's, and...... I forget, but lots of others.....(if I forgot you, blame my CRS!)

Good thread. Jolie10, your comments on the Betty/Carla/Birmingham tragedy scene were clearly and succinctly stated, and I wish I had discovered this thread before opining on this topic elsewhere, as you and keylimepie-- (my favorite dessert also)-- reflected my point of view, and did it better than I did.

OT follows:

I love that this show now garners so much comment, but the personal downside of that is it takes a lot more time to read and keep up...and ultimately I'm finding that I can't read everything, although I read a lot. Anyway, that's how I missed this thread -- until today. (I couldn't even get on the Open Thread -9 until yesterday, which is where I started reading).

Wish I could have a permanent "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE"-type immunity card for all the times (past, present and future) I step on other posters' previously-stated topics and comments (out of ignorance), having missed them. It's not intentional, and I suppose it's inevitable now -- what with the volume.

60'sChild: would you care to share the way you found to read the history of a poster's comments?
(I know about going to "profile," but of course that only reveals the last 5 comments). If I click on the link "Comments from '(Poster's Name)" it comes up in code). Maybe one's browser makes a difference, but if you have any tips you could pass on.....

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