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Talk is a public forum where you can ask questions and share your commentary with fellow Mad Men fans.
Problems with Season 3
I know we're all fans, but I'm sure we all have issues with some aspects of this season. I'm obviously not a troll, I just wanted to start a thread to get a discussion going. Nothing wrong in being a little critical. I'll start first: I think this season is over-saturated with Betty. Matt Weiner has decided to make her and the Draper family the primary focii of this season and I think this is a problem for several reasons. One, Betty's character and the problems she's confronting are largely the same as last season - we've seen little growth (she's now just saddled with a baby) and we've received few new insights into her character ("Souvenir" being the exception). Two, with respect to Sally, as good at that actress is they're limited in how much they can do with her (she's not going to keep up with all the time jumps they do). And finally, three: time with Betty and Sally has taken away from the office and other characters who, from the beginning of this show, have been important as well as from new characters (Pryce, Moneypenney). Somebody on this show likened the set up to a steak (Don Draper) with different sides (other characters) who rotate in and out so as to keep us audience members on our toes. Well, IMO the side this season is getting stale and the rotation has been limited.
Thoughts? Disagree or agree with me? And what particular beefs do you have with the season?











@giantsfan21: I agree with you completely regarding the focus on the Draper Home. As one commenter recently pointed out the name of this series is Mad Men, not "The Drapers". Following is a list of the major plot events that have occured thus far:
1) Sal is gay
2) Grandpa Gene Dies
3) Sally is upset
4) Baby Gene is born
5) Betty meets Henry Francis
6) Don meets Conrad Hilton
7) Guy loses foot
8) Don signs contract
9) Joan leaves PPL/SC
10) Betty contemplates affair
11) Don starts affair with teacher.
12) Sal is fired
Note that of these, only 4 are related to the office. Five, if you count finding out Sal is gay.
Of these, the following are unresolved:
1) Grandpa Gene's estate. Except, Betty has his car.
2) Guy's foot: We don't know how this effects the command structure of PPL/SC as yet.
3) Don's contract. Other than 3 yrs, a bonus, and presumably a non-compete clause, we don't know the actual threat level of Roger's confrontation with Don last week as we don't know the terms of the contract. (Is it contingent on retaining Hilton?)
4) Joan leaves. We know she has a new job, but no idea if she's now written out of the script. We haven't seen Moneypenny since Joan's going away party.
5) Sal is fired. As this only happened last episode, I am not complaining that we don't know his fate. (Did he decide to service the account and try to save his job or is he simply job hunting?)
6) Betty/Don: Betty is extremely unhappy. Don has deep psychological issues. We knew this last season, yet most of this season has been spent emphasizing these, except we're finding Don is in over his head.
A few other unresolved story lines.
1) What campaign did Peggy come up with for the rum account and did it succeed in selling the client?
2) Has Peggy moved to the city or not? What about her roommate?
3) Is Lois still an employee? If so, in what position?
4) Who is winning the competition between Pete and Ken?
5) What will happen to Joan as it relates to PPL/SC?
6) How is Peggy getting along with secretary Olive?
I'm sure there are other events that could be added to my list as well as other unresolved story lines. There are only 3 episodes left which indicates many of these questions may be left unanswered at least until season 4 and may never be answered. I feel like I've waded thru 9 episodes of set up to find out things I may never learn.
I hope to be proven wrong over the next 3 episodes, but this entire season has left a sense of the writers not knowing where this is going or why.
@ oh, yeah, lest we forgot:
7) Duck/Peggy: Is this an on-going affair? A one-time thing? Any chance Peggy may still use an offer from Grey as leverage for money/position at PPL/SC?
Here's what I posted on the Open Thread:
Geez, talk about “I want what I want and I want it now”, well…. That’s like many of you MM viewers who are constantly complaining about the show moving too fast, moving too slow, I missJoan, I want Sal, I hate Betty, I love Roger, I hate Pete, I love Peggy, too much Sally, not enough Ken, we want Anna, bring back Freddie, what about Trudy, Suzanne's psycho, what happened to Rachel? Yeesh! ...Relax and enjoy the ride. The entire season is finished and in the can. None of us will be getting a call from Matt Weiner asking our advice or opinions.
And yes, Don is a cheating pig. If you want a show about a faithful married man, there are Leave it to Beaver reruns on the the TVLand channel. Remember Sopranos? There was work/mob related material mixed in with family angst with Carmela and the kids, and the in-laws etc and Tony, as fat and disgusting as he was, still made time for the goomahs
Thanks giantsfan21and bipolarbear for your insights.
I am heartbroken with how Season 3 has progressed (or not) and embarrassed that I told so many people that is was the best show on tv. I will continue to watch and hopefully all of this will make sense.
Laurie B. It is not my intention to be rude to you but suggestions to watch Leave it to Beaver and comparing MM to the Sopranos IMO have nothing to do with the pace of MM.
I agree with LaurieB.
Well yes @485, Sopranos has everything to do with MadMen. Same pace, same conflicts. Same creator/writer (Matt Weiner).
I think that everyone has made good comments on this topic. I feel that the writers have created so many great characters to delve into its like trying to fill one plate from an all- you- can- eat buffet. Any one of the characters on MAD MEN can be a TV series by themselves. I'd love to see a spin-off series of "Freddy", "Joan" or "Sal." It awsome to discover such terrific acting too.
I'd love to see a flashback of when Cooper first started the ad agency or when Don first got hired. Just for toots and grins, I'd love to see Don at a bar unsuccessfully trying to pick up women until he looks in the mirror and sees that he is balding and with a huge potbelly......then he wakes up sweating from his nightmare :)
I too would like to see more of the office and what happened with some of those open story lines, but that's because, like Laurie says, "I want what I want when I want it and I want it NOW." Patience is NOT one of my virtues. But that doesn't make for a good season to wrap everything up with a bow every episode or even to answer every question. I think the uncertainty and unsettling/unsettled atmosphere is deliberate because that is what the characters are feeling.
I will reserve my full judgment for the season once it's over. I remember thinking similar things during the middle of some of the Sopranos seasons and then in retrospect it becomes part of the whole arc for that season.
Also, like the Sopranos, we may find after 6+ seasons, that some of the seasons and episodes are better than others--I think it was like Season 4 (?) of the Sopranos that wasn't the most compelling if I recall. Or, remember Sex in the City, for those that watched it? There was like one season out of 6 or so that pretty much outright SUCKED! It happens, but so far, I think I like where Matt is taking us and so will have to wait and see what the rest of the season brings (despite my very impatient nature!).
@Laura B you've nailed it. There is no way all viewers can be pleased all of the time. In my view, the one drawback of having a show with so many interesting, diverse characters is that you can't possibly focus on all of them at once. They have no choice but to divvy up the focus. I seriously doubt that MW has plans to make this the Season of Betty. I'm sure someone else's storyline will be in the limelight soon. I think too many viewers have a case of "can't see the forest for the trees" or maybe just like to complain. I agree that the key to enjoying this program is to just pour yourself a belt (or two), put your feet up and let the show wash over you. That, and let's all just resolve to quit whining. I think until we've written and produced our own TV shows, we should just crank it back a little. And if you can't manage that, there are other channels.
I agree with you completely, giantsfan, bipolarbear and 485.
And I have to disagree that it’s a matter of viewers “wanting it now” and that our complaints are about this season being “slow”. Seasons 1 and 2 were “slow”, too, but also filled with tension, mystery, subtext, layers, interesting characters, surprise, in fact everything this season lacks! I’m perfectly happy with “slow”, if it’s done well. This season has relied too much on contrivances big (the John Deere in the office) and small (Betty’s brother borrowing Don’s suitcase) and ludicrous situations (Conrad Hilton tracks Don down after a brief meeting and then, after knowing him only a few weeks thinks of him as a son? Duck seducing Peggy? Come on.) to move the plot along. Very disappointing.
I agree too, that too many storylines are started and then just dropped. The writers were able to keep multiple story lines going in the previous two seasons, I don’t know why it isn’t being done now. I think it just comes down to mediocre writing. I don’t understand why we’re supposed to be satisfied with mediocrity just because it’s Matt Weiner. Yes, there are other (bad) shows/channels to watch, but we have come to expect a certain level of quality from this show, and we’re disappointed that it’s not being delivered.
Whatever is the problem with the writing, I sure hope it’s resolved before next season. I’ll continue to watch, but I only like this year’s show, I don’t adore it like I used to, and that makes me sad.
Though as others have emphatically stated, there is no way that ever episode will make everyone happy. I am inclined to agree though with the OP that I would like to see more of the doings at the agency and less of Don and Betty's boring and predictable home life. When they focus on that the show seems to wind down to a standstill and when they return to the agency things seem to pick up, at least for my money.
I'm enjoying the show as much as the other seasons but I do think their is validity in the method that the show switched to---domestic rather than public (work) (very different arenas of play in the times this show takes place).
There have been a few too many contrivances, as Mambo Deb put it. Not my favorite MM. I think that leaves viewers lacking in some depth but it does still add interest. An example is how we saw Peggy faint during the tractor horror.
I wouldn't agree that Duck seducing Peggy is a contrivance though. I equate her personal scenes much as Pete's outside the office.
The pace of the show is just as I like it, and even when I miss having more of certain characters I can't say I've ever felt bored or disinterested one bit by any of the others.
I rarely turn on my television because I can not tolerate crap tv, which I think monopolizes the screen. To have shows like MM on I'm not complaining, but more than that I am really enjoying the show however it goes with whomever the writers present.
sorry for the misspell: I meant to say "I do think there is validity"
Mambo Deb: I have to take exception to what you refer to as "contrivances" Every office building I've ever worked in has a freight elevator. How else would they bring in heavy office equipment and furniture? So it's not far-fetched for me to see fun loving Ken bring the John Deere up in the freight elevator for everyone to see.
Also I don't understand why you think a Draper family member borrowing luggage from another family member is unrealistic. This happens in my family all the time.
And Conrad Hilton had a very eccentric reputation. So the whole scenario with him and Don is credulous.
Also Duck seducing Peggy. I guess I'm one of the few
females on this site who thinks Duck is attractive. Plus Peggy perceives him to have a certain amount of power/authority and that adds up to an aphrodisiac for her. Again believable.
I am transfixed by every episode.
The British takeover of Sterling-Coo...
Do you wonder, as I do, if that subplot was a bit of a non-starter from the git-go?
I love this show, but must confess that the British contingent and their affairs, has not interested me much (save for the grandiose de-pedestration, courtesy of John Deere).
But this is merely a small reservation, since I am quite the Maddict.
Perhaps the one thing that might change my tune here, is if, by some connection, one of our Sterling-Coo employees got sent right into the heart of Swinging London... and were shown the whole whirl over there.
My British friends like to remind me of how, while the 60's in America were stained with many murders, racism and a ghastly, unwinnable, unpopular war, the British 60's were comparatively freewheeling and carefree. They participated not in the Viet Nam War. Even the Profumo scandal was looked upon sanguinely and smirkingly by much of the populace,, who were anxious to come out of the grim, postWWII 1950's (they weren't Fab in England), get off commodity rationing, and throw themselves wholeheartedly into a new exciting affluence and cross-the-board efflorescence of style, sex, music, theater, art, politics, comedy, you-name-it.
I thought Weiner explained that the first season introduced us to the characters in the office setting, but the second season would expand into the characters' lives. If you consider the subplots in your own life (and boy do I have those!!), there are many issues that remain unresolved. We know they're out there but on the back burner for whatever reason. Lately all I ever say is "If it's not one thing, it's another!!". I'm not sure if it's important to know the resolutions but instead how the character has evolved as a result of a certain situation. I just wish Betty would evolve to the point of busting Don's drawer open! It's time!!
Interesting comments, everyone. Just wanted to throw in a few more things. First, maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post but I'm NOT against expansion into the characters' home lives, Jolie 10. I'm against repeated, redundant forays into the same character's life (Betty) that provide IMO little to no insights. Again, MW hit a balance in seasons 1 and 2 that he has not replicated here - and I think it's fair criticism. For those of you think this show can do no wrong, do you like the Betty storylines? I mean, it's not like I'm making this point after 3 or even 6 episodes. We're 9 episodes in, only 4 to go and there hasn't been a single episode that didn't have a substantial Betty subplot. Some of the episodes have been entirely dominated by her. I'm not against the character or the actress - I just think it's too much and it's not going anywhere. I agree Jolie 10 - if she would just open that damn drawer finally, things would get juicier!
I have to say, I think it's disrespectful to tell those of us who have criticisms to watch something else and that it's just a case of impatience. Obviously, you can love this season as much as you want (I wanted to see what people thought), but to paraphrase Peggy Olsen, nothing is perfect. You're right that MW isn't looking for our feedback, but that doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't offer or discuss opinions. I still love this show, it's my favorite thing on TV. However, I think this season is weaker than the previous two. I guess to expand on my original post, while most of the individual episodes have been very good (sans most of the Betty subplots and IMO episode 2 - I barely remember what happened in that one), I have no sense of arc with this season while it was very apparent at this point with the other two seasons. You guys might be right, maybe it'll come together by the end. But I have my doubts.
* just wanted to further clarify - no sense of arc for the season as a whole, but also for individual characters. Last season by episode 9, I thought the stories defining Peggy, Pete, Joan, etc were clear and even though I didn't know they were going to end, I could see what MW was trying to do. In this season, characters and plot lines have been focused on and then dropped so abruptly that it's difficult for me to figure out.
I'm with you LaurieB~ This is one of the best things to come along on television in a long time. Actually, since The Sopranos. So, I agree, get on the rollercoaster and see where it takes you. Stop trying to re-write the show!!! ; - ) It's brilliant and beautifully crafted on all levels. And, everyone is entitled to their opinions and we can probably all agree that when the season ends, we will miss it bigtime!
I think the differences on this thread are very slight. Pretty much everyone agrees that more time is being spent at the Draper home instead of the office. The people who are saying "enough of Betty already" (this includes me, albeit on a different thread) are just openly stating some frustration. We're not screaming that we'll never watch the show again, like some of the people who said that after watching S3 Ep 1.
We're just saying: "Yeah, we get the point. She's an unhappy housewife. She should have made different choices." When Francine reads The Feminine Mystique and tells Betty about it, then things may be more interesting chez Draper. Until then, can we spend some more quality time with characters we love and miss?
Frankly, I'm getting bored with so much of Don too. Especially when he does stupid things like getting involved with his daughter's former teacher, who lives a few miles away.
I'm patient. I take what I get from the show and am grateful for Matthew Weiner's imagination and writing skill. But that doesn't mean that I can't have a moan now and then about the direction of the show. I don't think anyone being critical here in this thread expects MW to take into account what the viewers want. He probably has Seasons 4 - 7 already planned out in his head and notes, just like JK Rowling did with Harry Potter.
@Betty Crocker: I agree about the crappy SATC season. I think it might have been either Season 5 or the first part of Season 6.
Site problems...gotta post so I can read. Geez this is getting old.
For me, the entire core of this show is based on Don's secret. And the person who is most affected by his cover-up (besides Don himself, of course) is Betty. I think the writers have had to really develop the Betty character so that by the time "Pandora's Box" is opened, we'll get a huge view through Betty's eyes. She can't just come and go through the series like Mona or Joan or Peggy because it's her life that will be laid wide open by the discovery. I also think that's why she hasn't been portrayed as a sympathetic character up till now. That would be too sappy, to see the poor pretty little housewife being shattered. I want to root for Don, even though he doesn't deserve it many times. At the same time, it's now easier to see why Betty is becoming distrustful and bitter. Don lured her into this marriage, IMO, under false pretenses and 10 years later, she's beginning to wake up.
I loved the "little touch" in the scene where Betty appeared to "automaticaly" check the locked drawer. I bet she routinely checks it twice a day (morning and night) to see (as one poster noted, under Don's increasing stress) if Don has slipped up and forgotten to lock it. As to breaking it open, I don't think that would be wise on Betty's part...too much risk, given that there might not be any irrefutable evidence in there for Betty to use.
@Jolie 10: Super-duper comment there. You're so right about needing Betty for that purpose.
I guess it's just that there are so many good characters and storylines, and it feels like the others are getting short shrifted because we're spending so much time on her. We could really use a 26 episode season of MM, but I guess it's just not physically possible.
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