Interesting that this show airs on the same day of a Gay Rights March on Washington....

I cant believe When Sal Came to Don that he was so cruel to him.

I would have thought that after there talk on the plain that Sal would find a sort of ally in Don. Don should have stood up for him and tried to make Roger unfire him

I guess the customer is always right and they had a lot to lose if they kept Sal. What was that man doing in that park with those leather clad men?

OMG! I can't believe that Don is such a pimp! This is no better than Pete offering up Trudy to that editor. What if the Lucky Strike guy had come on to Peggy? Would she have to sleep with him just to keep the account?? Poor Sal is right. This is getting out of hand.

Brash Boy....foreshadowing more about civil rights and black americans experiences in the mosaic of MM... for sure ... following the historical record, increasing each season.

One very sad but key comment that I noticed was Betty to Carla...something to the effect of...."with all the [terrible] things that are happening, maybe its [civil rights] not supposed to happen right now..." I was 20 in 1963, and I do remember people talking that way... as sad and backward as it sounds from our present vantage point, many (though all) people were afraid of change... and as we know from the record... change was very slow indeed.

Sad again about Sal... My sense was that by the end of their encounter Don knew that Sal was not at "fault"... but the outcome was inevitable given the "25 mil" factor. A powerful scene, among many others. I remembered (with a very strong pang) Rogers line to the effect that "somewhere sometime in the advertising game this has happened before..." the pang because we can be sure that indeed it did happen, for real, not just in a great TV show.

Gah!.... I should learn to preview... Meant to say though NOT all...

LMM: The leather clad men in the park probably mean that Sal and Lucky Strike won't be alone! I fear for Sal at this point.

Don can certainly be an awful person who does reprehensible things, and what he did to Sal this week was one of those. It was made worse by the fact that Sal trusted him and told him the truth, and then he really did throw Sal under the bus.

Of course, Don doesn't know, nor would he likely believe that Sal is as innocent as he is about gay relationships. Don saw the Bellhop and he undoubtedly thinks Sal has done this before, done it often, and gone all the way. Which is why, when Sal asks Don if this happened to one of the girls what would he do, he says it would depend on the girl. Meaning, is the girl a slut or not? Big as this account was, there is no room for insulting the client by refusing them anything, and Sal refused the client something that Don assumes Sal gives away frequently and easily. At least that's what I gathered from their talk. I might be wrong there. What were other people's take on what Don said to Sal?

None of which excuses Don's brutal and cruel actions. One thing I do hope is that Matt W. doesn't throw Sal under the bus. Suicide was common among gay men then--and all too frequently now, and I really don't want this show to lose Sal. He's a great character.

Regarding the leather clad men in the park, I think Sal was going "suicidal" in that way. He's taking the plunge big time--not unlike Betty (almost) taking the plunge with Henry, and Don taking the plunge with the teacher.

ok, regarding the leather clad men in the park: do not be shocked gentle readers to hear that just about every city in the USA has some area such as this park where men (married/gay/closeted) seek each other out. yes this still exsisits despite our more permissive society. some men still do not have a lot of options. certainly, sal in '63 does not.
also note that this talk about civil rights goes on as we still debate whether gay people should be allowed the same freedoms as other citizens. in sal's era, and sadly for many in our own time, gay people must be discreet and "limit your exposure". today, we still have to be careful- you can still get fired, you can not serve your country unless you are willing to lie, you can be beaten up or killed by people who hate you merely for being, your family can turn on you, and if you are lucky enough to find someone to love you are not able to have your relationship recognized or legitimized. sal is not "suicidal". he's a desperate man with no options.

The part about Sal is brilliant. I am sure Don thinks Sal does this sort of thing all the time ( thank you thirteen) , and maybe he does, but always anonymously, not with a person he would have to relate to. It seems to me that he is not a stranger to this park.

Hi everyone!

Are we sure Sal was in a "leather clad gay men district"?
It looked to as though he was using a phone booth, maybe outside of a diner, bar etc.?
Maybe the guys in leather were bikers?
I'll have to re-watch...

The customer may not always be right, but they are always the customer!

The telephone booth scene was in Central Park. They weren't bikers.

Hi surejack!
Thank you. How did you know? Did I miss a part of the Park?

Oh, and welcome if you are new to the Forum!

You didn't miss anything. I won't go into how I know where it was.

Thanks - And, yes, brand new. There are some brilliant minds on here. I enjoy this more than the show because I miss so much, dullard that I sometimes am.

Welcome, surejack. I don't think Sal "does that kind of thing all the time"-- though Don might indeed assume so after the Baltimore trip (I agree with Thirteen's post about that) but Sal seems rather innocent and inexperienced to me and is generally a somewhat reserved person. In fact when you consider all his past behavior from previous seasons I'd guess he's probably never had intercourse with a man yet. The Lucky Strike guy was like at least the third time he's turned down an offer for gay sex, actually. It certainly looks like this may change very, very soon.

Also I thought the phone booth scene was probably intended to be Washington Square Park in the Village. WSP was widely known as a place one could procure drugs, prostitutes, gay hustlers, etc. in this era (for many years-- even decades).

I love Sal and am very sad for him right now. I hope he stays on the show and that he does not end up dying before his time. The tragic, doomed (suicide, AIDS, etc) gay person has already been portrayed enough in movies and TV. Let's see what happens to one who makes it through these difficult times.

I noticed the gay leather-bar types in the background in Sal's phone call scene too.(No Caller ID in those days - you could call from anywhere you wanted and not be traced!) My take on that is that he feels he has nothing left to lose so he might as well explore his true sexuality. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't show him in a public restroom - men solicited sex with other men there all the time back then and one of the officials of the Johnson administration was caught in on and there was a great big scandal.
As for Don throwing Sal under the bus - that was how things were back then. Employees had very few rights ... if a customer wanted you out, you were out, with no recourse whatsoever. I hope they don't write Sal out of the show. I really like him.

I noticed the gay leather-bar types in the background in Sal's phone call scene too.(No Caller ID in those days - you could call from anywhere you wanted and not be traced!) My take on that is that he feels he has nothing left to lose so he might as well explore his true sexuality. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't show him in a public restroom - men solicited sex with other men there all the time back then and one of the officials of the Johnson administration was caught in on and there was a great big scandal.
As for Don throwing Sal under the bus - that was how things were back then. Employees had very few rights ... if a customer wanted you out, you were out, with no recourse whatsoever. I hope they don't write Sal out of the show. I really like him.

I think Sal is going to join an early incantation of the Village People. I definitely spotted the Indian in the background.

I think Bryan Batt's portrayal of Sal is brilliant. I certainly hope the writers do not plan to eliminate his character.

i totally agree with the observation that sal is feeling like he has nothing left to lose, and this is probably his first gay experience as an adult. sure it's sordid and scary, but if i remember correctly that was also part of the fun!

i like that the show draws parallels with the characters, as each is coming to the realization that their options are painfully limited within their chosen roles. don has "so much of everything" and is deeply empty inside; betty has the "dream life" and she wants soemthing more, sally wants a pencil box.

I think Bryan Batt's portrayal of Sal is brilliant. I certainly hope the writers do not plan to eliminate his character.

Notes from the Luckies filming scene: Harry says, "I think we should do what the client wants." Lee says, "Let's take a risk together."

Bryan Batt just about had me in tears in the editing room scene...the way he said, "I'm married!" and then threw the canisters to the floor. A wonderful actor, a wonderful character.

If a client had asked Don for his wife, Betty, to keep an account, would Don give in?

@ norman sal is not "suicidal". he's a desperate man with no options.

I actually meant that metaphorically, though many a gay man in those times (and sadly now) thought they had no other option than suicide. What I mean by "suicide" and having sex in the park was that he'd thrown caution to the winds, very like Don does when he visits the teacher. Every reason he had for not doing it is gone, and he's going to take the plunge. Of course, it is "suicidal" in that it's very dangerous. He could be robbed, beaten, abused or arrested.

But as you say, society has severely limited Sal's options and he hasn't much choice. It's interesting that lot of this episode is about what people want (or think they want), the risks they must take to have it, and what they can realistically expect to have. Sal's is the bleakest picture, because society won't let him have even a compromised version of what he wants--a tawdry affair. He has to view his sex life as fleeting, criminal, sick and dangerous.

I think, as with mention of the civil rights movement, that we are supposed to make that comparison. Those in power don't appreciate how good they've got it. Even when they have to compromise, they've got it better than those who not only can't have it, but have their churches bombed--or their lives destroyed--if they say they want it.

Hello Maddicts!! first i'd like too say I searched three times Before finding a thread with a reference to Salvatore, that said I's like too add some points, Sal gets punished for doing the moralistic thing and proper thing respecting his marriage vows and gets punished for it in essence and lost his job in a way for his sexual orientation, that was rotten but let me just add too one further point, his phone call from the park phone booth is more telling than anything, He is like acting as though he has come up with a solution and I think I know what it is, I think he is going too confront lucky strike bully with a gun, for real, i think the injustice he has been dealt will make him resort too this, I guessed about the firing so This plot twist can't be too far off, having gone from graphic arts into commercial film he may not have another career plan that would seem like the most likely step, after all his work in commercials was so short lived, And also the details about the park people, I did not notice their leather but maybe they were, I noticed a few fedoras and nylon jacket and slacks, I do not think he is going for a cruise orgy either, I think he confronts that Bully, I hope it happens.

Hi again surejack!

I feel the same way about this Forum. I have learned so much more about Mad Men and the time period the show is set in from the Maddicts on the Forum.
There are some very bright, funny, and insightful people here!
Welcome to the madness!

bluegirl: I doubt if it was Washington Sq park. I can remember it in the late 60's and I'm sure some things went on there but the police kept it clean because there are nice townhouses surrounding the park and NYU has some too. Drug dealing like heroin was at Tomkins Sq park in a slummier area on the East river which is now gentrified.Other drugs were generally sold by people like Paul's friend who were too scared or cautious to sell on the street. Prostitutes were all over the city. And homosexuals had their own bars then in the village and even in very good areas and bathhouses, the cops generally didn't bother with them at least in NYC unless there was some complaint and it was in public.Lesbians had their own places too and they were just ignored. It may actually be worse today due to AIDS and also gentrification in the city.

Something tells me that Sal will end up having an affair with the guy at Lucky Strikes.

One reaosn being that he really wants to and secondly, he needs to keep the comfortable salary that Sterling Coopper provides him.