Good idea, If anyone can actually get on the original Ep 9 thread try to draw the traffic here please. This site is just ridiculous at this point.

OMG! It's really you! So many popel have been posting on the opne thread as to your whereabouts! I will send them here right now!

During the nightcap at the hotel, Don indulges Conrad Hilton's melancholic discourse about inner turmoil which is strikingly similar to Don's own crises. Hilton has an interesting quote: "Sometimes I look around here & think 'By golly, I'm King Midas'". Is this a deliberate or coincidental echo of his comment to Don when he met Betty in Rome & said: "By golly, you're an indecently lucky man."?

Hi Peaches. I tried starting a new open thread also last night but it got washed out pretty fast. Hopefully yours will stick. I loved this episode, this was great. I hate not being able to compare what I saw with everyone else, I hate not being able to see what others are saying. Even if I'm wrong I still like the exchange. Anyway, I'll cut and paste what I wanted to say and hopefully get this thread up and running. Tell me what you think.

GREAT episode folks, lots to dig in to:

Again more subtle parallels of Don and Betty, just in their own way on different ends.

Sex and the boardroom. Don had to deal with the fallout of that idea with Sal. Betty, in her own version of sex and boardroom and Henry, also had to deal with the fallout of the idea. And, both had no choice but to follow through what was laid out in front of them. Similar in their different ways.

Carla is no dummy. She knows what is going on but just does her proper job. Remind you of anyone? Perhaps any number of, good, Sterling Coo secretaries? That's their job, isn't it; cover for the boss.
Betty has Carla in the same sense the Sterling Coo gang has their own good secretaries who know the drill and play along. Again Don and Betty parallel, just on opposite sides of a spectrum.

Both Betty and Don struck out in their business.

Another parallel in another direction, which I think is great and want to bring up to you all to pass around and give your opinions:

They both seek an escape from each other.

Don has a break from everything through the attention he gets from the teacher. Betty gets an escape through her dealings with Henry. Henry for Betty is another version of Betty's fantasyland issue. She never goes through with it and commits to actually doing it. But she still finds escape through him however, and fantasizes. Don is locked up through everything, it's the teacher's attention that gives him really his escape from everything.

And here's a BIG point I want to throw to you all since it's mostly women here:

Know why Betty didn't go through with it in his office? He locked his door. She's locked up with the homefront and now the baby. Henry is her escape, the one unchaining her. And right at the heat of the moment what does he do?

He locks her in.
She immediately is turned off.
Wow great episode.

And here's the other big point which I want to hear your thoughts and take on since we're gearing up closer and closer to some resolution in the coming last episodes:

Speaking of the conflict and struggle between being locked in vs escape (I think this season's biggest theme) isn't the teacher this year's version of Anna? Except this time with sex as consummation, but I want you to think about it.

Seriously, the best photography of the episode was when Don knocked on her door, and she opened, it was SO similar to the visual of Don going to Anna's last year. Watch it again. The flimsy door opening, the man in the suit and hat. The close-up of his hand knocking.

Did you catch he cuddled with her, after instead of fleeing the seen of a crime?

Back to Betty: Do you guys remember I put up that thread about Betty posing like a Renaissance painting? Here again we open with that. The light, her content posture, posing for everyone. That's narcissistic Betty, Everyone has to admire her, even us the viewer.

Then what? Both the phone rings from work for Don, and the baby is crying for Betty. Fantasy was interrupting reality, or was reality interrupting fantasy. The Drapers.

Everything this episode was such a slow rock back and forth, a ship, or two, I guess, without a righted course and struggling and reacting.

More Don now:

Connie saying to Don, "You're like a son to me." Don never had a Dad. Bobby saying last year, "We have to find you a new Daddy." Then what happened? Conrad left Don.

This was one of the best episodes.

Can anybody explain why I can't get on the main thread, and one about Pete & Lucky Strikes? Why only certain ones?

I always save my comments for off-peak times when it is easier to access the threads. Sometimes I can't get on until Tuesday or Wednesday. This alternate thread is a great idea.

I didn't even try to get to the site last night during or just after the show. It's always impossible at that time. I'm just surprised folks are having problems NOW. I've had no problem getting to the main site. Greg, I thought we lost you. Kept looking for you on the main thread. Thanks Peaches for directing me here.

Nothing Elegant: That's an interesting question. You're reminding me of Peggy telling Don he has everything and so much of it. They seem to keep going back to that general idea.

@Greg: UI agree w Bipolar , so good to have access to your insights. Yes, I think you are spot on about this entrie season's themes of locked in or escape.

Someone on the open thread thought that Betty and Don are switching roles this season. I can see that, my only issue is I guess I am tired of Betty at this point.

And now, because of the feeling of being trapped, the gloves are off and I look forward to seeing the Mr. Hyde in everyone.

The key line of this episode was Betty in bed, speaking about the infant, but also to Don:

"You want what you want, and you want it when you want it."

This idea repeats itself over and over, and the consequences of selfish behavior are seen:

Harry wants Betty now, makes ill-advised trip to her home.
Betty wants Harry at fundraiser, throws hissy fit and cash box, and puts herself in compromising position.
Lucky Strike client wants Sal, now, resulting in his firing.
Don wants Teacher, now, impulsively goes to her home.
Connie wants moon reference in ad, blows a fuse and reads Don the riot act.

The episode is a commentary on the facade of orderly life; its currents are really driven by competing, selfish demands and needs, many of which have negative consequences for others,

The key line of this episode was Betty in bed, speaking about the infant, but also to Don:

"You want what you want, and you want it when you want it."

This idea repeats itself over and over, and the consequences of selfish behavior are seen:

Harry wants Betty now, makes ill-advised trip to her home.
Betty wants Harry at fundraiser, throws hissy fit and cash box, and puts herself in compromising position.
Lucky Strike client wants Sal, now, resulting in his firing.
Don wants Teacher, now, impulsively goes to her home.
Connie wants moon reference in ad, blows a fuse and reads Don the riot act.

The episode is a commentary on the facade of orderly life; its currents are really driven by competing, selfish demands and needs, many of which have negative consequences for others,

And what's also interesting about the facade is going back above to the Midas/You have everything idea. On paper people would probably want to be or be jealous of the Drapers, the couple on top of the wedding cake. But in reality, do you really want to be them? A lot of times when people appear to have it all, it's not exactly the case. Do these people really have it all?

And the selfish behavior, acting on strictly impulse is a problem mixed in with that as well. What's interesting about Don is that he seems so calculated on the job, but his personal life, much is done on impulse and he sometimes ends up a wreck because of it. In so many ways he's so split in half. And you're right, here, we had a lot of that behavior this episode from all over.

Hilton says to Don, "we have an impulse and we act on it. How do we know to do it?"

Don answers, "instinct".

Hilton tells him, "so you're just like a dog".

When Suzanne Farrell tells Don about how she will use King's "I Have a Dream" speech to teach her class about civil rights, Don asks her, "who are you?"

"Are you pure or dumb?"

It seems there are some spiritual questions being asked in this episode, and another one next week, as seen in the sneak peek which takes place in the Drapers' kitchen.

I though "Wee Small Hours" was a great episode.

I'm guessing that the episode's title is alluding to the Frank Sinatra 1955 album of blue torch songs called IN THE WEE SMALL HOURS. It's also the name of a song Sinatra sings on that album, written by David Mann & Bob Hilliard. (N.B. Bob Hilliard was Burt Bacharach's steady lyricist in the early years.... before Hal David came along. Bacharach "discovered" Dionne Warwick in 1962 when she showed up to sing background on a Drifters record called "Mexican Divorce"... lyrics by Bob Hilliard.)

http://www.amazon.com/Wee-Small-Hours-Frank-Sinatra/dp/B000006OHD

This episode really showed how sex can screw up things. It's a natural human drive, but yielding to its impulses can so often screw up things. especially in 1963... the era really before Kinsey's ideas and those of Masters & Johnson really "came out of the cloet" in a big way.

I SO-O did not see coming that moment between Lee Garner, Jr. and our Salvatore. The little tsimmes they go through is a perfect example of the dangers of being in the closet. The amount of blackmnail that can go on! In fact, I think it is the dangers of blackmail that has largely contributed to the longstanding proscription of homosexuals in the U.S. Military.

I remember, in earlier seasons, thinking how hunky the Garner character was... I never dreamed he'd be gay, (or bisexual) frankly. Or petulant enough to put Sal through so much resultant hell. There was very little "out" gay mainstream in those days... Shame Kurt never took Sal under his wing a little bit, but I guess Kurt is too far down the status hierarchy to fraternize with a high-ranking exec like Sal...

Did everyone "catch" that little moment near the end when Sal is making that phone call to Kitty from the park?? Putting 2+2 together, we see that this park is a "cruisy" one, known for quick, clandestine gay liaisions. God only knows what Sal is going to do after he hangs up that phone.

A warm romp in the screening room with the hunky, Southern, Lee Garner seems far preferable to a park trick, but we appreciate that Sal cannot risk that.

Now, we have to wonder: if it became common knowledge at Sterling-Coo that Sal was gay, would he be summarily fired, out-of-hand? Maybe, then maybe not. With his great art talent and his being under the aegis of Don "been-around-the-block-once-or-twice' Draper, maybe he'd be just fine....(?)

Didn't your heart ache for Carla? Having to listen to the party guest's racist comments.... then hearing Betty's offhand (yet surely wounding) comment: "Maybe it's not the time for Civil Rights yet!"

It was obvious that Carla immediately knew the score when Betty's man-friend stood in the doorway.

That schoolteacher is a real piece-of-work, no? I think we are to see that she is probably an alcoholic, drinking alone at 5:00am in her home?

re: Connie. I myself have worked as a graphic artist, and I know all too well what Don is going through with Connie. Once I was designing a website, and my client (an older man Connie's age) informed me that I was to design it all in patriotic red, white and blue. I did so. It was a very handsome website.... and required lots of hard, tedious work, including some amazing Flash animations. Then, out of the clear blue, my client said, "Scrap all that. I want the whole website done in shades of purple." (Purple??) Reluctantly, I cooperated... and ended up with a site that looked as though it had been designed by Malibu Barbie. He then ordered me to scrap that one, too.

There are some clients who simply enjoy the subtle power trip of forcing you to jump through their many hoops... Connie seems like this type.

Connie's idea about the moon... We wonder just how serious he is being. Doeas he REALLY envision a Hilton on the moon in the next few years?? I could see a whimsical ad campaign using the Moon as its location.... Yet I don't think Connie is being "whimsical".

Perhaps he has been looking at too many early-60's MOTOROLA ads in POPULAR MECHANICS and SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN. Like these:

http://arjay.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/houses_of_the_future_2.jpg

http://www.ultraswank.net/wp_uswank/wp-content/uploads/images/motorola-2-520x330.jpg

http://www.sachsreport.com/motorola%20advertisement%20from%20teh%20future%20modern%20design%20retro%20tech%20architecture.jpg

http://www.treehugger.com/2008-02-14_075950-TreeHugger-motorola.jpg

It IS true that men of Connie's generation... who'd survived two world wars and a great depression... had IMPOSSIBLY grand visions of where America was headed. In the early-60's, before the Kennedy murders and the Watergate swcandal, it literally seemed that the sky was the limit. Connie's contemporary would have been your Walt Disney's, who had grandiose visions of a "futuristic" populuxe America...

We keep waiting, don't we, to see if Betty will ever wear Hawthorne's "Scarlet Letter" on her chest... At present, what's good for the gander is apparently not good for the goose. But will this change, will betty really commit the Ten Commandmts sin of (gasp!) ad------ry??

I loved it when she threw the cashbox at Henry. She wants Henry... but only as a kind of fantasy lover. She doesn't really want to go all-the-way with him. again, another portrait of Betty as hopeless, infantile narcissist.

ras

Hey there, Ras! Been missing your keen eye lately.

Yes, CH waxing lyrical on the Future reminds me of those old films featuring "The World of Tomorrow" or Disney's Tomorrow Land stuff on Sunday night TV.

Thanks for the reference to the Bacharach/Hilliard song. I'm very fond of Ry Cooder's version. Wasn't Dionne's sister a singer as well?

I felt her writing letters was interesting. I think writing keeps a certain distance, it's different than face to face contact. It's exchanging affection but without action.

And remember how we say in many ways Betty is still kind of a child inside? It reminded me of passing notes to someone you liked in school.

The whole thing is a little fascinating in that Betty wants the attention or emotional connection, but doesn't want to delve into the other half of that; to act upon sex. Opposite from a man who would want the action but not have to act upon the emotional responsibility. Maybe it's about exploring the idea of taking, without having to give. It's kind of interesting.

@ fifty-two

Yes! Good to hear from you, too. Yes, Dionne's sister Dee Dee Warwick was also on that Drifters record. Dee Dee sadly passed away about a year or two ago. Her recordings-- especially those from the year 1968-- are very, very good in their own right... Oldies cognoscenti prize her versions of "When Love Slips Away", "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me", "She Kept On Talking", "Yours Until Tomorrow" and "Suspicious Minds", among other things. Dee Dee had a sound more like Aretha's or like Carla Thomas.... darker and more gospelly soulful than Dionne's.

I don't know the Ry Cooder version of Bacharach-Hilliard's "Mexican Divorce". I'll ceertainly try to locate it on the Interwebz.

Greg-- I too was struck by the picture of Betty at her writing desk-- so old-fashioned and quaint by today's standards. My parents corresponded through letters frequently, mostly hand-written.

If Betty read authors like Jane Austen, I would say she was attempting to live that fantasy, and went looking for her Mr. Darcy. But she doesn't, so it must just be some girlish unfulfilled dream that she might have picked up from an old movie. I loved the heavy writing paper, and was curious about the fact that she kept the letters locked away instead of destroying them. Do we take it that she gave Henry all his letters back with the box she heaved at him? Such an ugly, unromantic box!

Ras-- it's on the "Paradise and Lunch" album. The only Dee Dee Warwick I have is her version of the Betty Everett hit "You're No Good". Will look into acquiring more!

@Fifty-two: I believe Cissy Houston (Whitney's mom) is also Dionne's sister. I do know that Warwick is Whitney's aunt.

Nowadays Betty and Henry would be sending each other naughty emails... anytime, any place. Haha.

Now I'm starting to wonder why Sal is so very reticent to "party" with Lee Garner, Jr. Other souls, in far more conservative American cities, would have given in, waved goodbye to the closet, 'round about that time. (I'd say Garner is pretty irresistible... Rich? Tall? Suntanned? Handsome? Patrician? An old-school, masculine "man's man"? What's not to like?)

We have to wonder if Sal did not have some colossally humiliating moment in his youth... some pre-pubescent experimentation-- discovered by the adults--- which left him scarred-for-life?

It's probably a given that he is a "recovering Catholic", with years of mustachioed nuns threatening him and rapping his knuckles with rulers...

I even have the slight suspicion that the neighbor boy Glenn has been introduced by Mr. Weiner as a very subtle "echo" or "doppelganger" of Sal. In other words, Glenn IS Sal as a boy, subliminally.
Glenn has been sexualized far too early, it is evident... then he gets repeatedly shamed about it.

Some skeleton lies in Sal's closet, making him so petrified, and job security is not his only deep-seated worry...

Lastly--- this was a Joan-less episode!

The show's not the same without her Technicolor, bodacious presence... wouldn't you agree? I guess we're to assume she's busting her behind, unhappily probably, at Bonwit's.

Will she come grovelling back for her old job... after the big to-do of that going-away fete?

Let's consider this hypothetical scenario: What if Salvatore had pleased Lucky Strike in (ahem) EVERY way....

How would that change Sterling-Coo's fortunes with that cigarette campaign? Or Sal's status within the firm?

Did we already know that HRH Betty Draper was.... left-handed??

And possessed of exquisite, old-school penmanship?

The Englishmen have skedaddled?

Some more things, after watching the day after re-air.

I had said before I found it interesting that it seems Carla is to Betty what the guys' secretaries at the office are to them. I just caught now, when Henry comes to visit Betty, Betty says, "my girl is due back." Did you catch how a lot of times the guys in the office refer to the secretaries my or your girl? Offhand right now, last year when the Jimmy Barrett fiasco goes down and Don was at the movies, Roger busts him and says where were you, Don says he was at the printers. Roger says you should have told your girl that. There's a bunch more but that's what I thought of first.

And check this out, also this episode Henry says to Betty, "I'll have my girl call you". I do think it's all intentional in the writing and I think it adds credence to Don and Betty strange parallels.

Here's another one: How about the teacher and Betty. Both start something yet refuse to go through once they get the attention, and turn it the other way once it's time to begin. They both start the men up, then kill it before it begins. The difference this time is that Don takes charge and Miss Farrell lets him. But, she was pushing him away with her words up until he took her. So it begs the question: Will Henry do the same with Betty?

Another thing in hindsight is the whole Disneyland thing. This time I thought of season 1 when Bert says to Roger about smoking, how Neville Chamberlain would have given his mother for a dance partner to Hitler after not being allowed to smoke. I can't put my finger on it or actually say there's a relation, so I think for now I guess it's just a fun writing quirk, but it's interesting about how sometimes it's not brute force that brings a big one down, but something simple. Al Capone, tax evasion etc. I don't think it means anything to the show in general, just interesting they kind of did that again.

And here's a food for thought. You know the whole thing about the Moon and Hilton? Is it possible Conrad wasn't talking specifically about the actual Moon, and instead is testing Don? As in the expression, "shoot for the moon"? I find it hard to believe Hilton is so eccentric that he is forward-thinking about colonizing the Moon with hotels.

Don came up with an idea, but maybe in Hilton's eyes it was a base hit but not a homerun. Don didn't shoot for the Moon, and get it. Make sense? I don't know. What do you all think?

Another reason the day after viewing is great is did you catch the looks between Don and Peggy? When Don shoots down the Hilton through the window ad, Kurt, Smitty and Peggy leave, but he looks after Peggy as she leaves. It's deliberate. And after Hilton excuses everyone from the meeting, Peggy, who had no role this episode, looks back at Don and he returns her look. Again deliberate. I don't think it means any deep thing but it's interesting they did that.

I didn't catch this last night but after re-watching it, I had said I felt the teacher was an escape for Don. This time, what did Don do? In the face of adversity so to speak, he took charge. She was rebuffing him but he takes her in his arms. In other words, he takes control. Everything around him this whole season has controlled Don and beat him up. Now, he takes control.

No, they're having lunch with the Amish. Sorry. Polar Bear made me do it.

No, they're having lunch with the Amish. Sorry. Polar Bear made me do it.

Yes good idea Peaches for the "redirect".
I am noticing that Don cheats with brunettes most of the time. I saw him get rebuffed by Betty when he gave her a charm. Up to that point he seemed to be getting back "into" her. Why was Bewtty so mean to Don?

I think Betty didnt' freak out because her politiico freind lock the door. I think she really likes him and want flowers , romance and candlelite... not the one night stand "tawdry" stuff.

poor Sal.. here he thought he was doing the right thing by "limiting his exposure" and it blows up in his face.

Is it the end of Sal an d JOan on the show? So sad if so.

Oho and did anyone see the dirty, gloweringly mean look don sent Peggy's way? Geat episode!

Hi Chelsea...I'm guessing Betty did as you say freak out and say "no, its tawdry" after not-so-smooth Henry locked the door, because she very well knew that the secretary on the other side would have heard that "click" and understood it very well...the same secretary that heard the box crash.

Hi Greg... great post as ever.... love your remarks about both Betty and the strange Miss Farrell love to flirt and tease, but when "called" they back away... or attempt to.

Also you are absolutely spot on about "The Girl"... it was a nearly universal locution about a secretary or a maid..."My girl will..." (fill in the blank). It was applied to any female of any age.... the mature Olive was a "girl". (So was I once upon a time...)

I'm not sure that locking the door was the key moment in Betty's decision. I think it was when Henry reminded her that she was married. That seemed to bring her back to reality. And Don had, up to this point, been faithful. Her dalliance with the guy in the bar was essentially to get back at Don after he admitted being unfaithful.

Sandy: Well done, Grasshopper.

Yes, Don sent Peggy a mean glower. But perhaps he shouldn't have: Peggy actually had the look of sympathy and compassion for Don as she moved out the door...

White man keepin' the White Girl down!!!

I think the use of the word "girl" is often (maybe not always, though, Kate Millett!) politically incorrect when referring to a grown-up woman.

But African-Americans are triply sensitive about being referred to as one's "girl" or one's "boy".

And rightly so, for ugly historical reasons.

It's only been about 25 years since I stopped hearing "girl" regularly in office situations.

droog: I agree. The "tell" for this episode is Betty's line to Eugene. One's wants or needs motivated by "instinct" or impluse. "When" is key as it may occur in the "Wee Small Hours" of the day or cloak of night. "Timing" is everything in this episode.....even for civil rights as Betty "tells" Carla.

@Greg- I knew your comments had to be around here somewhere. Glad to have your insight again...
The "girl" comments are quite telling...tying Betty's work in with Don's work. Remember last week when Don wrote on Betty's work? Such a blatant way of saying Don just assumes his work is more important, and Betty being frustrated that her work isn't working either, maybe that's why she stepped up the "girl" comments and the "Carla works for me" stuff?

@Rasputin- Sal really has to face the music and dance now...I hope we get to see more of what becomes of him...

The other thread is already disintegrating into insults :( ...however there are some interesting literary comparisons (Gatsby...etc..).

Lots of Maddicts have mentioned Don's writing on Betty's list as meaning his work is more important, that he saw it that way - or that hers is just invisible. Although Matt Weiner may have intended just that way, I saw it as just that he needed a place to write quickly, and that was what was available. But I'm probably just full of you-know-what.