"In the Wee, Wee Hours" by Chuck Berry
Album: After School Session

In the wee, wee hours
That's when I think of you
In the wee, wee hours
That's when I think of you
You say, but yet I wonder
If your love was ever true

In a wee little room
I sit alone and think of you
In a wee little room
I sit alone and think of you
I wonder if you still remember
All the things we used to do

One little song
For a fading memory
One little song
For a fading memory
Of the one I really love
The only one for me

Wrong song 52!!

When the sun is high in the afternoon sky
You can always find something to do
But from dusk till dawn as the clock ticks on
Something happens to you

In the wee small hours of the morning
While the whole wide world is fast asleep
You lie awake and think about the boy
And never ever think of counting sheep

When your lonely heart has learned its lesson
You'd be his if only he'd call
In the wee small hours of the morning
That's the time you miss him most of all

When your lonely heart has learned its lesson
You'd be his if only he'd call
In the wee small hours of the morning
That's the time you miss him most of all

Sing it Frankie, I mean Zab.......

Hey everyone. Just letting you know that I was named the most influential man in the world for 2009 according to AskMen. I beat this Barack Obama fellow (who is that?), I thought that Kennedy was our president. And what is this thing that I am writing with? I press a little square with a letter on it and then it shows up on this fancy Television set. Anyways, I better be going back to work. There is this elementary school teacher at my door. I wonder what this is about.

-Don Draper

Ah, yes, Zab, that's the one! Unforgettable.
I'm not familiar with the Chuck Berry song, but I like the lyrics.

Gratz to Don Draper on his award!

Call me unreliable, but I like both songs!

And I'm hoping something bad isn't going to happen to Baby Gene. They wouldn't go there, would they?? :-O

@Fifty two: Stop with killing off the baby!! :)

Call me irresponsible
Call me unreliable
Throw in undependable, too....

Wow, can't believe I made it to the first 10 posts of new episode thread.... humor me, it's the little things that thrill me!

maybe the song is suggesting betty will be thinking of henry and don of miss farell? perhaps don is losing sleep over the hilton account?

maybe the song is suggesting betty will be thinking of henry and don of miss farell? perhaps don is losing sleep over the hilton account?

I'm here, @Peaches!

OFF TOPIC COMMENT: May I just take a moment to extend my gratitude to ALL MADDICTS of this forum. I have noticed that since joining this forum, my debating and sparring skills and overall intellectual and verbal wit has been meticulously sharpened and honed, and are now currently utilized with fervor at places such as the DMV, the grocery store, the 405 freeway and my dentist's office. Thank you for all you continue to teach me here each week. You are an amazing group of intellectuals and comedians.

no this is the song

In the wee wee hours
twixt 2AM and three
that's when this site is quiet
and you can post your thoughts with ease

in the wee wee hours and most folks are in bed
not Deep Dish or I Love Joan they're still
active on the thread
Melba Toast is wide awake
And so is Jolie Ten
And Hobocode and AdamX are the
solitary men

And Zerelda she is snoring
Zabadu's in neverland
And Mont'ys somewhere fretting
That he'll be forever banned

In the wee wee hours
Sugar Bear is snuggled tight
She say's her prayers and then oh no, say it aint so
She gets up to "Close the Light"

@Sugar Bear- Off Topic but Good Point!
Cheers to the overflowing intellectual capacity on this blog!
House-wifery dulls my senses...thank goodness for this grand group of posters!!
I can't imagine how brain numbing it would be if I had help in the house like Betty....WTF would I do all day....dream of designer dresses and better jewelry and touchy-feely politicians??? yikes!

@hobo- YAY! thanx
((snapping of fingers in beat-poet-style appreciation))

I'm thrilled to see my favorite show having such an impact on popular culture. The AskMen.com award, and this, from today's NYT's review of the new movie, "An Education:"

..."Some of this [movie's] allure arises from the appeal of a moment in the past that seems, in 'Mad Men' and beyond, to be enjoying some cultural cachet..."

http://movies.nytimes.com/2009/10/09/movies/09education.html?8mu&emc=mu

Wow Hobo, you can sing AND write. Been meaning to tell ya, you are truly a Renaissance man.

Don' forget, Jon on David Letterman tonight.

In light of Sugar Bears insight into how wonderful we all are may I say. I have never ever made an off-topic post, but there is a first time for everything. Sad but true, we are more than halfway through with this all to short season. I think we should have our own Tony, Grammy, Oscar, type awards for this forum. Possibly in the off-season, we could have a poll for different categories , Most Intelligent, Longest,Stupidest,Funniest, Frequent, Annoying,Self Agrandizing, and other categories to be determined by a board at some time in the future. If there is sufficent interest I will start a seperate thread, or better yet Oh Sugar Bear, Sugar Bear darling, where are you, oh I see you.

Wow Hobo, you can sing AND write. Been meaning to tell ya, you are truly a Renaissance man.

Don't forget, Jon Hamm on Letterman tonight.

@DeepDish Not really. I never liked Renaissance, or Genesis, Fairport Convention, ELP, or any of those progressive/fusion type groups. more of a meat and potatoes , blues , rock, country, rockabilly, roots based guy.

@Lily – It’s one thing to have the Open Threads for each episode be posted 54-60 hours prior to showtime, but we’ve gotten used to it I suppose. But please explain why the dates are incorrect. The Open Thread for Episode 8 is dated October 11th. We’ve been commenting to that threads for 10 days now, and October 11th isn’t for two more days. Now I see you’ve got Episode 9’s Open Thread up and it’s dated October 18th. What is the point of these incorrect dates?

oh Lordy, Time Travel what will they throw at us next

Hi fellow posters. I'm already getting psyched for Sunday." I was doing a little research on the upcoming episodes and see that after Wee Small Hours this weekend, we'll be seeing:
The Color Blue - Oct. 18
The Gypsy & the Hobo - Oct. 25
The Grown-ups - Nov. 1
Shut the Door & Have a Seat - Nov. 8

Does anyone have any theories/ideas on what to expect? Have we had anyone referred to as a gypsy before? Like the hobo, a gypsy is someone who is rootless and moves around a lot. Do we know much about Miss Farrell? I can't think of any other charactor who isn't anchored.
The final episode certainly sounds ominous!

@Sugar Bear; I feel the same way re my sparring skills..wasn't it you who used Joan's 'Then stop talking' in a recent argument?

@hobo: great songs, In the upcoming Mad Meniac Awards I vote for you for best album, best song, and best song writing!

@Moe, Well as in all things Mad Men, the name of the episode usually echoes within all of that night's different story lines.
Re Wee... I really hope we see no Betty, lots of office, Joan and sex, sexiness.

Hey everyone and happy Friday to all!

"Wee Small Hours" was supposedly inspired by Frank Sinatra's divorce from Ava Gardner... hmmm.... I'd sure love to see Joan get a divorce!

fifty-two, I like your Chuck Berry song which is very similar. I too am still concerned about baby Gene!

Moe, I'm thinking the gypsy is probably someone who hasn't been introduced yet. The hobo reference makes me think we may be seeing more flashbacks from Don's childhood in that one.

We don't know much about Miss Farrell, including her first name, except that unlike Betty she is nice to children and understands them.

Miss Farrell's first name is Suzanne-- she said her full name when she made that tipsy phone call to the Draper residence right as Betty was going into labor. True, we don't know much about her, and the "previously seen on MM" bit before the show keeps showing clips of her-- they don't want us to forget about her yet....

@bluegirl: hmmm inspired by Ava Frank
I hope it IS Joan inspired episode, divorce.

Me too Peaches! Wouldn't it be great if Joan ditched Dr. Rapist? A collective cheer would go up across the nation.

Hi Peaches... I second, third and fourth you on your great idea for awards to Hobo....(and still wish AMC would give him one for real .. and SugarB as well while I'm at it!)

Don Draper.... hey... "grats" on your award. But this teacher at the door thing is raising a wee red flag. Got pets?? If so keep a close eye on 'em....

And further on the subject of awards... Hobo has a great idea for our own Maddict Tony Grammy Emmy etc. Think, though, that maybe we'd need to activate the Humor Security Checkpoint.... as in don't leave home without one....

Love all Maddicts.. Jon tonight, Yay!

i agree with maddicts that our joanie deserves a better man than dr creepy. except that - my husband played baseball with him in college and I would hate to see a struggling actor lose a good gig like MM!

@Hobo: OMG your song was classic. We must get t-shirts made with the lyrics. As your humble Grunt, I will start a separate thread for the awards.....but more towards the end of the season, don't you think? That way we all have time to think of the different categories and who gets what, etc.

I think we should use @Peaches title for the thread, the "Mad Meniac Awards"....NICE, Peach!

@Melba: .....it's an honor just to be nominated.

@bluegirl - oh, right, the ballet dancer...

…sigh… @j9mac: The actor who plays Dr. Greg Harris is handsome and if someone as an actor not a character could look nice, he does.

But let’s get rid of him for our Joan.. Perhaps he can stay on and perfect his dastardly moves (on the Bonwit Teller mannequin Joan gave him as a parting gift) in the living room while Miss Farrell boils the bunny in the kitchen.(bunny boiling reference courtesy of Melba Toast (I think?) in a previous forum)

I would like to see the Don of yore make an appearance this season and have a few dalliances…soon! I always say how much I liked his affair with Midge because it gave us a glimpse into that other late fifties/early sixties world.

Perhaps an affair with a pre-Carnaby Street mod model. If we have to have Brits, I would like to have a peek at what their sexy looks like (I would say “have a Brit show us some skin”, but we all know how well that worked out in Ep 3.07)

I think at the end of the season will be best SugarBear, however we should form a committee to establish categories. possibly a five person panel to decide the different awards. of course with input from the entire forum. Possibly we could get AMC to kick in some actual prizes. I knew I could count on you!

peaches - i too would like to see the return of the old don drapper, however, i am intrigued by miss suzanne farell and would very much like to see where a tryst between her and don would go. I just placed a book of stories by john cheever on hold at the library, one of the stories, five - forty - eight, caught my eye because of the similarity to the seven twenty three title of episode 7, it is about an executive who has an affair with his secretary - let's just say it doesn't go well for him.
http://www.enotes.com/five-forty-eight-salem/five-forty-eight

Okay, so this is getting a tad queer-fest-forum-love-in.......just so you know. Hey, no judgment, but I'm just sayin', if you long-timers want to pat each other on the back, just start the other thread already. No ill-will intended, just my two cents, which is always welcome here!!!! And if no one responds to me from now on, then c'est la vie, but hey, I tend to call it how I see it! (Is the french correct? I'm Italian myself.....)

I too am desperately hoping for more, more, more Joan, Roger, Jane, and (God help me) Pete, in this episode!! And MORE STERLING COOPER OPS!!! Am very intrigued by the title - only mischief occurs in the wee small hours yes?

Or "wee small hours" could refer to kiddies. They've been setting us up for something with Sally's temper.

@good stuff:point taken . In defense, sometimes you just want to be nice to those you share something in common with on a friday afternoon after a tough week at work....we'll get a room.

Definitely want more SC work stuff.

@j9mac: I have to agreeably disagree. No way in hell I want to see Don with that nut job Miss Farrell. Want him to be with someone more urbane, hip, a bit more interested in the modern world.

@Peaches - Completely understand the motivations - but you got my point and your response, "....we'll get a room" just ROCKED!! That's what I enjoy about this place, everyone is pretty easy going and for the most part ("cough") stays on topic.

I know, SC work stuff right? Where the hell is Lane Pryce (hope that spelling is right, didn't bother to check....horrors!!!)

fifty-two, I agree that the phrase "wee small hours" (just taking the words at face value) sort of vaguely implies something might happen involving children late at night??? Sounds ominous.

j9mac, I totally just bought the collected stories of John Cheever at Borders on my way home today! Cool anecdote about your husband knowing "Greg" in college. Hate the character but wish the actor well of course. He must be very talented for so many of us to feel so strongly about the character! Just keep him away from our Joanie. And scalpels.

After that bizarre eclipse encounter Miss Farrell definitely does seem, uh, unbalanced. I hope Don doesn't get involved with her, if only because she's so conceited, saying how soooo many of her students' fathers are always after her! She sure thinks a lot of herself. :P Like several other posters said in a previous thread about Miss F., she could totally end up obsessed with Don, chasing/stalking him, unable to fathom he wouldn't want her (or is smart enough to keep his pants up around his kid's teacher, whatever) and then she might imagine that they are in a relationship when in fact they aren't.... and chaos ensues.

peaches - as of episode 8 we know very little of MF and i think even in the 60's that teachers can be interested in the modern world too, perhaps that is what attracted her to don in the first place. furthermore, after women like bobby and midge - urbane doesn't seem to be don's thing! i find miss farell's peculiar behavior intriguing, as i think don must too. her apparent vulnerability is an attribute that don can't help but to identify with and since he has a habit of revealing little pieces of himself to the passersby in his life, i think there is an opportunity for the audience to learn a lot more about don/dick. I am agreeably disagreeing with you too :-)

bluegirl - i hadn't thought of MF inventing a relationship, that sounds very interesting and a problem that only don drapper could have!

Thanks j9, I agree it would be a really interesting way to go with the character. I can't take credit for the idea though-- someone else said it first in a thread from a few weeks ago called "The Mysterious Miss Farrell". A bunch of us were speculating exactly what might be wrong with her and some posters saw parallels between Miss F. and the Glenn Close character in "Fatal Attraction".

Hi Goodstuff... I want to see encounter w/ Roger & Don after Dons declaration at the contract signing. And your french 'such is life' is parfait... perfect. (At least as far as I know...)

Peaches...Friday afternoon, yeah...TG and all that. As for "Bunny Boiler"... thanks, but 'twas not I... and regrettably my CRS is preventing me from proper credit...

As for Miss Farrell.. for me, jurys out on how far out of balance she actually is... but she did employ a rather bizarre version of the push/pull or in her case, pull/push flirtation technique. And then theres the phone call. I think, along with many others, that Don would be daft to "play" so close to home.

@Bluegirl: See, and Wee Small Hours only makes me think of the lyrics

You lie awake and think about the boy
And never ever think of counting sheep

Nothing about children at all. It's about thinking about someone you want/miss...

Yes, you're right Zabadu. I'd already said the song was allegedly written about Sinatra's breakup with Ava Gardner. But if one were to consider the words in the title separately from any musical references, it might possibly have an alternate meaning? So many MM episode titles have multilayered meanings.

Baby Gene is a boy...

Weiner insists this season is about change. We know Betty is dissatisfied. What could occur to make her jump ship?

@Peaches & @SugarBear: I just used a madmenism today to my lawyer who has been dilly-dallying for 5 years on my serious car accident case. I told him strongly to MOVE FORWARD!

So that Ava Gardner...she split up Sinatra's 20+ year marriage which was already on the rocks so maybe Don does make the move on Miss F/vise-versa.

Wee small hours...kids, working late. I forget who here said it but I agree nothing good usually happens. wee small Ours?

fifty-two, you raised a really interesting idea but I just can't quite ever see Betty doing a "Kramer Vs. Kramer" AKA taking off and leaving her young children. I don't think she would ever do that no matter what, if only because of what the neighbors would say... she's so concerned about what other people think. Besides, the Drapers have already tried a temporary separation so maybe if someone is getting separated or divorced soon, it'll be a different couple? There's Joan and Greg of course or maybe Sal and Kitty? Or perhaps even someone we might not immediately expect... Roger and Jane? I could see Jane dropping Roger in a heartbeat for a younger, wealthier guy. He'd never see it coming because he's still in the infatuation stage with her.

On a different note, I'm wondering why the show made such a big deal about Peggy moving to Manhattan and getting a new roommate but we haven't seen anything about it since her brief meeting with Karen Erickson! What's up with that?

Wasthere, best of luck with your case. I hope you're doing all right health-wise and weren't seriously injured.

Maybe the song refers to several people lying awake thinking....Pete thinking about how to get Trudy to dress up like a German au pair....Peggy thinking about Duck (is it still a nightmare if you are awake?)....Gudrun thinking about murdering Pete and shoving his body down the garbage shute....Sally wondering if Barbie is still buried in the backyard....Betty wondering how to get that desk drawer open....you just never know what keeps people awake in the wee small hours of the morning....

With me it's either heartburn or hunger. Or someone else who can't sleep. ;-)

baby gene could be keeping the drapper fam awake or stress from the hilton account and/ or newly signed contract.

Or it may have nothing whatever to do with the song lyrics. "Wee small hours" is a common enough expression.

Zerelda. ...Funny!
Let's list what keeps us awake::::
Crying baby
worrying
bad dreams
waiting for a family member to come home
had too much to drink and now I'm sick
sick kid
a big fight with your spouse
suspicion
work worries
money worries
Yes, I'm not an insomniac but close!

@BlueGirl: Thx for the concern. I was incoherent at first, then 5 days in the hospital with a flip-flop heart and broken collar bone. Then the fear of getting behind the wheel again and missed my 50th h.s. reunion. I'm okay now but I went through hell for a long time afterwards. Out of work for 2 months. I also had good witnesses, so there should be no reason for the long delay.

Going back to Don's first encounter with Miss Farrell (MF) at the May Pole dance. He was feeling the fresh grass and staring at her. He had a sensual attraction to her. Whether that attraction persists throughout their other interactions remains to be seen.
I could not get my head around her last meeting with him at the eclipse. I even thought fleetingly that it was bad writing, because what she said just didn't make any sense. But with MW is that even possible? So I have to believe she is a bit bonkers.

Take a look at the album cover for Sinatra's
"Wee Small Hours" Very MM, very classic.

@DeepDish great picture love the shadows on his face

I've watched every episode of MM....and wish the writers would focus once again on the advertising aspect!!!! Made the show soooooo much more interesting to integrate the advertising of the age versus the soap opera the show has become...very disappointing....bring back the nostalgia! Otherwise, the show is like all other boring soap filled crap!

I think one direction the series is moving toward is the growing cause of feminism, especially as the 60s decade rolls on.

I can see Peggy eventually taking over S-C or starting an agency of her own, doing pro bono work for progressive and feminist causes--maybe she'll even take in Joan as a partner.

Also--and maybe I'm really stretching it here--Peggy may realize that she's just not into guys all that much. Was there a forshadowing in the first series, when one of the guys in the office compared her to Gertrude Stein?

I think one direction the series is moving toward is the growing cause of feminism, especially as the 60s decade rolls on.

I can see Peggy eventually taking over S-C or starting an agency of her own, doing pro bono work for progressive and feminist causes--maybe she'll even take in Joan as a partner.

Also--and maybe I'm really stretching it here--Peggy may realize that she's just not into guys all that much. Was there a forshadowing in the first series, when one of the guys in the office compared her to Gertrude Stein?

I think one direction the series is moving toward is the growing cause of feminism, especially as the 60s decade rolls on.

I can see Peggy eventually taking over S-C or starting an agency of her own, doing pro bono work for progressive and feminist causes--maybe she'll even take in Joan as a partner.

Also--and maybe I'm really stretching it here--Peggy may realize that she's just not into guys all that much. Was there a forshadowing in the first series, when one of the guys in the office compared her to Gertrude Stein?

Wondering how Peggy got assigned to the Hilton account? Why did she leave with a little satisfied smile on her face? She got her way...again.

@helen: I hate to be a spoiler, but take a peek at the sneak peek for ep 3.09. I think it answers your ?

@wasthere: My best wishes for your continued good, better, best health.Re lawyer:Perfect! I hope you bring a lighter next time you see your lawyer so you can put itunder his/her a..!

@khh: Yes, more of the fascinating advertising/work world back then! Please stop the Betty arcs, she is dull.

Hi fellow Maddicts!

I know this is more of a Sinatra question than a MM question, but here goes...

What is that song he did where he was singing to a bartender? Something about..."Make it one for my baby, and one for the road"?

It is one of my favorite Sinatra songs. The wee small hours song kind of reminds me of it.

@Peaches and Melba: (A yummy dessert I might add...) It was Zabadu who first said "Bunny boiler."

@Laurie B: The reason AMC posts the upcoming eoiside thread on the Friday before is because they are not in on the weekend. Of course IMO, they're never around. And this has probably been said before, but the threads for the episodes are probably dated by their "ending date" like Time or Newsweek (I think, I haven't read one for awhile.) They are dated for the time in which they should be relegated to a lower status. So on October 18th, this thread will be moved away from the 2nd to the top of the page. On Friday the16th it will have already been moved from top of the threads to 2nd place.

@j9mac: I've never read the Cheever story you mention, The 5:48, but I did see it dramatized on PBS three decades ago. It's a story about an executive having an affair with his secretary and starred Laurence Luckinbill as the exec and Mary Beth Hurt as the crazy secretary. And when the man came home to his suburban "oasis" the first thing he did was hit the liquor cabinet. In this show, his drug of choice was Tanqueray. To this day, when I see a bottle of Tanqueray, I see it as it was presented in that film. For me it has been the most effective example of product placement ever. Of course Tanqueray really do have a striking looking bottle.

@60's Child: It's called "One For My Baby." Do you know how to search on the web?

If you don’t like what is being said (or not being said) change the conversation.

I sent the following email to CLOROX

You advertise on the Mad Men show and their website. Thousands of viewers use this website and technical difficulties (which have been reported to AMC) remain unresolved. Until the site is functioning at an acceptable level I shall boycott Clorox products and encourage others to do the same. I am posting this message on the Mad Men main thread. Maybe Clorox can get the attention of AMC?

http://www.clorox.com/contact.php

(guess I’ll never win a prize from Lily)

@Aredee: Ken comparing Peggy to Gertrude Stein was meant as an insult to her. It's incongruous to me that you could be aware of Gertrude Stein, and yet not spot that his comparison was meant to be derogatory. You seem to be trying to label feminists as lesbians. Don't even start.

JMHO - I think you're the troll.

@Peaches: My lawyer could end up like the real Don Draper with the cigarette lighter scenario. (lol)

@Deep Dish: Thanks for the link to Chlorox. I called them on Tuesday to get the email for their marketing dept. I got an email address and wrote them a letter, later on in the day, but the address turned out to be wrong and it was undeliverable. So I just used your link and pasted my letter to them there.

I definitely suggest folks write short notes to AMC website sponsors (Stoli, Target, etc.) and tell them they are not getting value for money on the site. If the site is inaccessible during the peak time just after the show's first airing, then AMC is not delivering the broadest base of viewers it probably promised in the numbers it presented to the advertisers before they signed on. Or maybe advertising agency media buyers signed up these advertisers. Either way AMC is failing to deliver when it's inaccessible.

I also let Chlorox know, that as a manufacturer whose products are almost exclusively purchased by women, they might not want to be associated with the misogyny that appears on the site. And that AMC makes no effort at all to remove.

NNT, I agree with much of what you say, but not this. I would rather scroll down past the troll than limit conversation. I don't like Aredee either, but I don't think his/her comments should be deleted. I have the choice not to engage with that poster. Yes, some of the whack job/nutcase stuff should go, but there is price for free speech (ours included). I also agree with the others who say they are doing it for attention, even sexual arrousal because of impotence and deep rooted hatred of women. I just don't let them get my goat. Ignore and scroll down, I say.

I do think you are so accurate and on target about the ones you have spotted and outed.

Hey there 60s child! The song "One For My Baby" was written by Harold Arlen and Johnny Mercer. It was first featured in the 1943 film "The Sky's the Limit" and sung by Fred Astaire. He's sitting in a bar alone after a fight with his best gal, and during the song, he gets very upset and ends up dancing on the the bar top, where stacks of glasses get kicked over. He breaks the bar mirror too!

Sinatra first recorded it in 1947. He frequently sang songs Astaire had made famous earlier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sky%27s_the_Limit

I don’t find the Clorox ad offensive - they are enjoying the social commentary of the show just like anyone else and making it funny.

Nonsequitors, just pondering previous vignettes:

(1) When Betty got that opportunity to do some modeling (client’s way of buying Don to jump ship and join his agency or something), she did those plastic grins in front of the camera and looked amateurish. Maybe she was so happy to be modelling again that she couldn't help herself. It surprises me more if she learned how to speak Italian during her modeling experience in Italy, than if she just had alot of upper middle class opportunities in her young life. Where did it say that she modelled in Italy?

(2) Peggy is so complex. She is a church-going Catholic who says her prayers before falling asleep at night, but she’s willing to bed anyone in the office just to move forward professionally, and is willing to be the guinea pig for the Relaxisizer (which she came up with the name for), in humiliating office brainstorming sessions, while maintaining her conservative manners.

Or maybe she naively hopes that anyone coming on to her is in love with her, married or not.

Hi A, I think Peggy goes to mass because "Ma" expects it. I think when Peggy makes the move to Manhattan her first search will not be for the local rectory to join the parish.

Betty told the gals in the kitchen (at Sally's birthday party) that she went to Italy. Later, she told Francine about her modeling days in Italy (and Gianni/Johnny). She modeled some of the outfits for Francine.

And A, forgot this. Sister Anita once told Peggy that Ma lies and tells people that Peggy is going to another chuch for mass - to cover for Peggy. I think then Peggy responded 'She doesn't have to lie for me' or something to that effect. She told Father Gil that she doesn't think God punnishes the way Fr. G thinks he does. And, she was taking the Pill - strictly forbidden.

Peggy has already started her break with the Catholic Church.

@deepdish-Now that's the way to roll, impotence? Awesome zinger!

Hi NeverNotTasty!
I do know how to do some internet searches. I guess I didn't know where to start. If I put in Sinatra, I figured I still be searching until now!

Hi fifty-two!
Thank you for the information on that song. I am not a huge Sinatra fan (before my time). But I do own his Duets 1 and 2 CDs, and that song just hit me. Thanks again!!

Heeeere's Frankie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?vKqmgldSVgXM

It seemed to me that Betty found the kiss from Henry distasteful. She was using her beauty to get something from him and I'm thinking that driving away she was thinking "That's all you're going to get." And she took off with Don partly to avoid Henry by not being available if he should call.
For a woman her age she probably wasn't attracted to him. I still find the fact that he put his hand on her abdomen creepy and not something any normal male would have done in that era.
I would put that kiss on the same level as when Pete forced himself on Gudrun saying " I want to kiss you"
I hope we never see Henry again. Creepy!

Yeah for youtube! You can look up just about any song. It has never failed me.

One more try(left out the "=":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqmgldSVgXM

Wasn't that also the song Bette Midler sang to Johnny Carson on the last Tonight Show? I sure do miss Johnny.

I meant "One For My Baby".

Maybe a little off topic, but, hell when it's Frankie, you can't go wrong!

My favorite Frankie song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0jDMffWLg

To all Sinatra lovers (and I'm one of them): I knew a kooky woman who was so crazy about him that she wallpapered her entire apartment with his pictures, named her pet turtle after him, and SLEPT WITH HIS SON to make her feel close to the real Frank!!!

@a-line: I never said a single thing about the Chlorox ad being offensive. I wasn't writing them about thier ad. I wrote to them as ADVERTISERS on this site so that they can put pressure on AMC. If they (Chlorox) are paying to be on this site, they should be getting a quality forum, not one that people can't get access to, because it doesn't have enough space, and not one that is littered with obscenities and misogyny, racism, etc.

@Deep Dish: I never asked for Aredee to be deleted. As some people on the forum are slow to catch onto trolls, I felt it was better to nip the problem in the bud, before 12 people start having a conversation with the little arse--le. I spotted Jean M on Sept 30th. If I had spoken up sooner, maybe there would have been less conversations with that obnoxious character. I also kept my mouth shut before because on a previous occasions when I outed Monty, someone attacked me in a very coarse and unpleasant manner that I was against free speech. I am not against free speech. I am for the site adhereing to the Terms and Conditions it claims to uphold. Hate speech is not protected by the freedom of speech.

I appreciate that many of you agree with me. There are so many great posters here whom I like and respect. When some troll starts spewing his unhappiness all over our site, I feel protective, not only for myself, but for the many others here, who deserve to be treated with respect, not pelted with garbage.

Some may think me paranoid, but yesterday people said, "Jean M - he's a nice guy." Today we're singing a different tune about him. Aredee was leading up to insulting feminists and lesbians. It's just a variation on Anya, the Russian who only speaks one word of the language, is on the same time zone as the US and gets MM over the internet as soon as we get it in the US. Maybe I'm paranoid, or just a better detective.

If I don't get a heavy dose of Joan soon, I may start losing interest. And I won't buy anymore Clorex, Hienekin, John Deere products, Ritz crackers, Budweiser, Rice Crispies, Stoli, Lucky Strike, accordians or black shoe polish.

Off-topic (kinda) but not really, since it's about JH:

JH on Letterman last night (not complete, just an excerpt it appears)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMPc3wCm54s

JH in July '08 right before S2 started, telling a bit about his pre-acting days:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpHqCc5wIW8

Hope the damn links work....YouTube....you just never know....

The show has been good about referencing real life events of the time. I wonder if they will bring up the death of the Kennedys' infant son, Patrick. I believe that occurred in early-mid Aug. of 63, which is about where they are now. Also, MLK's "I have a dream" speech happened on Aug. 28 that year.
Wonder if they will reference that?

NeverNot, I agree with you completely regarding trolls. I'm amazed that some of the regular posters thought the Why Can't Cooper Get Some, or whatever it was, was a legitimate thread and actually posted thoughtful comments. It had red flags all over it!!!! You can always tell when the trolls are gearing up; there are just certain "code words" they use before they start spewing the garbage. It's best not to respond to them.

Hi Sab, not sure I understand what you meant about Betty "for her age" not being attracted to him. Do you mean the age difference between them? He is older, but hardly May-December. Also, power is a potent aphrodisiac. She did seem a little taken with him at Roger's party. They had a sexy little moment when they were introduced formally - both acting like they did not already have an intimate belly-touching moment, then sharing a secret. Yea, I think Betts was a little smitten with him. Or maybe she just liked the attention?

The show has been good about referencing real life events of the time. I wonder if they will bring up the death of the Kennedys' infant son, Patrick. I believe that occurred in early-mid Aug. of 63, which is about where they are now. Also, MLK's "I have a dream" speech happened on Aug. 28 that year.
Wonder if they will reference that?

The show has been good about referencing real life events of the time. I wonder if they will bring up the death of the Kennedys' infant son, Patrick. I believe that occurred in early-mid Aug. of 63, which is about where they are now. Also, MLK's "I have a dream" speech happened on Aug. 28 that year.
Wonder if they will reference that?

@Deep Dish, thanks for the attention to the fine points, I would have to go out and buy the boxed CDs to get all the details back in my head. It seems that even though Peggy abandoned the church in the provincial sense, she is still religious. The pastor kept pestering her to come back to the fold, and she resisted all the pressure talk with answers that showed a more honest spirituality. I think it's the episode where the pastor is playing the guitar in his room at night, and Peggy makes the sign of the cross before she falls asleep. Another time in the office she was talking with the guys and clarified something she was saying to mean Christian action, not Christian religion. It's complex because of the fast lane she's moving into ... covering for Don after the Bobby tryst/accident was a morally incongruous experience.

@NeverNotTasty, I misinterpreted, sorry.

Hi maddicts.. that's my very 1st post..

I just wanna say that I too (as someone has posted above) want to see more of SC and advertising than personal life. Specially, I'm done with Betty: she's become over-annoying this year, and I think January should push a little more with her playing of Bettie, coz it seems too flat at times.

I'd like to see more of Pete and Roger: anyone noticed Sally's got more attention this year?
I'm sad with Roger getting too lose his cool and becoming a sort of an old fool, yet I hope he'll be brilliant and get back on command.

Final question: what about the Dick Whitman 'lifeline'? Are we done with that? Cannot be..

@joel: The MLK speech is a great catch. I bet we'll have an afro character coming in as a regular pretty soon.

Sally's anger does something to get Baby Gene killed? WHAT?!?

A-line, I agree, still spiritual but abandoning some of the teachings... Maybe you are referring to when she said about the Popsicle account - "The Catholic Church, now they can sell things." Yes, our Peggy is al over the place.

Lord, wasthere, that woman was nuts!

I love Frankie as much as anyone...but....

ha

I think someone already posted this, but, he supposedly had Ava G. on his mind when he recorded "Wee Small Hours".... makes sense...you can really hear the emotion in his voice...but, then that's a lot of the appeal of his singing...so full of feeling!

A-line, no, I was mistaken. I think you are referring to the Popsicle ad when she (and Sal, I think) are talking about the ritual of beaking and sharing, like communion. And Ken says "Isn't that very Catholic?" and Peggy says no, just Christian.

@A-line: We're cool. Thank you for saying that.

@MamboDeb: Thanks for your support. I feel the same frustration. It's more bothersome to me that people don't catch it and start conversing with him, and that AMC doesn't do anything about removing his crap. That's why I'm trying to get people to spot him and shoot him down before he can work people up and get them into arguenments with him.

Hate to sound like a broken drum, but he's here once again. Docnemisis and maybe one more.

Right now this feminist is going to bake some lemon cupcakes.

NNT: You're eye is good. Just give us the heads up and we'll do the same.

NNT: Your eye is the best around. The one you just mentioned - spot on. I am certain. Please continue to give us the heads up.

It wasn't the Popsicle ad or the Ken remark, but you bring up other comments I forgot about. I'll probably remember it in 3 weeks.

Hi Mad Mon! Sally has definitely filled out as a character and is very popular on this blog, there's even a poster named Sally.

Joel: OMG, the Kennedys little baby Patrick. I had completely forgotten about that. Talk about turning dark; that would take the cake.
And the MLK speech and civil rights in general; sure hope it changes some of the latent racism of the characters. There would be an interesting dynamic if SC hired an African American.

Welcome aboard Joel, good to see another newbie.

I was the first person to alert the invasion of the ring of trolls when they attacked my thread Bi-polar or Princess Syndrome. I immediately went on the attack trying to intimidate them, and tracked all of their other posts and pointed out their disguise. Ignore, attack, they are going to be here either way, I was just trying to let others know so that they didn't get sucked in. AMC is doing a great job moderating---it's probably them. One of them sounds like a writer straight off of SNL.

So on the main AMC MM page, the synopsis for "Wee Small Hours" says: "Don and Sal both have difficulty giving the clients what they want. Betty hosts a fundraiser."

Any thoughts?

Looks like from the sneak peek video Sal may be getting another shot as a commercial director-- I hope so. Go Sal! Am guessing the fundraiser is a Junior League event. Wonder if Henry will show up?

Troll... that is funny. Not relevant? Have you read these posts? I am not going to waste the time looking them up again... but in essence, "I hope nothing happens to the baby." "Have you noticed Sally is featured a lot this season?" "Is Sally's anger going to be an issue?" "I wonder if they will bring up the death of the Kennedy's infant son Patrick?"

Then I jokingly said the next thought in all of this "silly dame logic"!

Mad Men is a cool show. I love to watch it, read the forum to catch things I missed, then rewatch it.

I hate the "soap opera speculation". Watch the show. Enjoy it. Let the writers take us where they may...

I know feminists aren't very good at picking up on subtle humor. But you really need to quit trying to play CSI Housecat.

Now that that is out of the way... go get me a Bourbon and Coke babe!

Troll... that is funny. Not relevant? Have you read these posts? I am not going to waste the time looking them up again... but in essence, "I hope nothing happens to the baby." "Have you noticed Sally is featured a lot this season?" "Is Sally's anger going to be an issue?" "I wonder if they will bring up the death of the Kennedy's infant son Patrick?"

Then I jokingly said the next thought in all of this "silly dame logic"!

Mad Men is a cool show. I am curious to see what they will do with Joan. I want to learn the depths of Pete's "bastardly ways". I love to watch it, read the forum to catch things I missed, then rewatch it.

I hate the "soap opera speculation". Watch the show. Enjoy it. Let the writers take us where they may...

I know feminists aren't very good at picking up on subtle humor. But you really need to quit trying to play CSI Housecat. You are not psychic and cannot read my intentions. If you do not like a post, ignore it! If you do not agree with a post, ignore it! But no, you would rather have anyone with a different view from you banned. I would have ignored your post had I not been mentioned by name. But unlike you, I do not want you banned. I will just address you, then ignore you.

Now that that is out of the way... go get me a Bourbon and Coke babe!

@SCfan: The song he recorded that was most attributed to his breakup with Ava is "I'm a Fool to Want You." He really put his heart and soul into that one. Although he was happily married to Barbara, he was devastated that he wasn't at Ava's side in time when she died. She never stopped loving him either.

Sally meant her first kiss was already done with Grandpa. Joan is being abused by Greg-"it never happened"wasn't to Pete-it was what she tells Greg and herself--as she rubs the phantom pain on her face--Gone with the Wind fans--Betty's awakening happy bed stretch in Rome was like Scarlet's after Rhett satisfied her (temporarily). MWeiner casts sixties stars look-alikes-the hitch-hiker guy looked just like a Brandon de Wilde--the au pair like Hayley Mills-Trudy like Barbara Parkins of Peyton Place TV series and "Valley of the Dolls", and could Jane be hiding her racial identity ("Imitation of Life"-Lana Turner,Sandra Dee)-How would Roger, a racist, react?

also-nice to meet other Francis Albert lovers here-- I was thinking of him today while watching the Rome cafe scene--picturing Angie Dickinson in those years- Sinatra and JFK were lovers)and Frank in that scene.
Kids, Angie was in the original (and ONLY in my opinion,) "Oceans' 11" with Frank,Dean and Sammy.

Hi Maddicts! One more day! : ]
Hopefully we're back to the office with this episode.
Maybe "wee small hours" is about staying up to meet a deadline? Who knows....

I really wish that Frankie and Ava could have worked it out, they were quite a pair!

@NNT- Perhaps we've seen those overused quotation marks before?...I assumed getting a doctorate would promote good manners....guess I was wrong. ;)

I'm just having a dream that I'm a Japanese woman having sex with a couple of octopuses. Back to American Gothic tomorrow.

Amybett, Ditto on the quotation marks comment.

@A-line: Dream or nightmare? Funny though!

When the sun is high in the afternoon sky
You can always find something to do
But from dusk till dawn as the clock ticks on
Something happens to you

Did anyone notice the shift in Don's sitting position in the teaser ? Gone is the collected coolness of the leg cross . Looks like he's try'n to give birth is Hilton sucking the life out of him or what?
Can't wait to see Roger I hope they make out (oops ) up.

The IMDb cast list for "The Wee Hours" reveals they cast children as trick-or-treaters for this episode.

So, with Episode 9 we will be in the last few days of October. Slowly approaching the November '63 event most of America can still vividly recall.

Now we're all waiting to see where the Mad Men characters were on that date. It's this anticipatory suspense the series' writers are so good at. Because we know where we're going, it seems like I've dug my heels in this tug-o-war, hoping beyond hope seeing it fictionally will make it less painful....seeing how others were affected...even after 40 years...is something I must prepare for.... I hope you're gettin' ready!.....

Remember when Marilyn Monroe died and the men made fun of the secretaries crying? and Joan told Roger that someday someone he cares about will be gone and he will know how it feels? -people watched tv news in store windows-Catholicschool kids went to the Chapel, then home--think of Peggy's Mom-she will have to get home to her-
this is the day America changed . It became cynical,anything goes,Beatles,War, a country divided.it all turned upside down. I do see Roger helping Joan.and his daughters wedding the 23rd....
It was an unbelievably sad day. Like the world ended,worse than 9-11. America's heart was assasinated.

good work greytone.

Hi Greytone! Nice to see you. Where have you been?
That's the question on my mind. How much will the writers take us through that painful time? JFK When we were all glued to our tv's? And where will our characters be, doing what.? I know MW says he won't get into it too much but I'm still wanting to see just what the writers do. Last season closed the Friday before that awful Cuban Missile Crisis with this season started six or more months later. I'm not anxious for the season to end but wondering just what sort of cliff hanger there will be.

@Deep Dish: Thanks again for your sweet words. You explained once before that your name relates to the fact that you're a dishy librarian. Does that mean you're not a pizza fan? My fav used to be the thin-crust at Lou Malnati's. Or sometimes I'd stop and pick up a pizza at Leona's on my way from the city to the suburbs. What are your favourite Chicago area restaurants?

I hope they cover the 1963 Yankee- Dodger world series won by the Dodgers. I think the Dodgers sweep of the Yankees could be used as a metaphor for how the old world is begrudgingly changing. I hope they bring Koufax and Drysdale into the series in connection with all the endorsements they garnered. This was the second most important event of the year and I hope MW covers it. Enough civil rights and feminism references. Other things happened in the sixties.

@Greytone: Welcome back - we missed you!

I was kind of surprised to see Letterman referring to notes when he gave John Hamm that very short bit on his show. He had to look up the day and time and channel.Guess he's not a fan. Gawsh, John is even more gorgeous when he smiles and is light-hearted. I think they should put a bit of that charm into the show; he is always so serious.

"Sal" and his long time partner are getting married in Vermont at Christmas and of course you all have already seen Christina Hendricks in the bridal issue of Lifestyle.

I'm in heaven at all the media attention our show is getting.

It would be nice to see MW on Charlie Rose, someone who can actually conduct an interview.

NNT: Lou's is good, Leona's, too. The best deep dish pizza is the one you make yourself with the original Uno's recipe. The restaurant is still there, good, but not as good as it was 30 years ago.

Try this: (but you must at least double -maybe triple the mozzarella from what they say)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/deepdish.php

BTW: Who was it, Sab? who started the JFK assasination memory site? Couldn't find it. Might be time to resurrect that.

HEY HOBO! Baseball... I don't think this season. Greytone said they have trick or treaters in this episode. But ya never know, maybe they will bring it up. Were the Dodgers in NY in '63? Don't shout. There's no such thing as a stupid question.

I would never shout at a librarian,, they were in L.A. since 1958.

@Deep Dish: Thanks for the recipe. I love to cook so I hope to try it one day soon.

Hobo, You have such nice manners. I wouldn't mind hearing why that particular series was more significant than other years. I'm not sure I get you how this was indication that the world was changing?

Hello all. I've been a lurker here for a while and decided it was time to out myself as a Maddict.
Been hooked since Season 1, Episode 1 aired.
Hope to be able to add something to the conversation sometime soon.
Thanks!

Well basically the Yankees had been a power for decades. The fact that they lost the world series 4 games to 0 was an early sign of their eventual decline to the bottom of the American league by the end of the sixties.It kind of coincides with the image of the U.S. as the decade wore on. Now I am no scholar, and I have never read a theory on the subject. It just sort of popped into my little old brain. You see I guess in the context of this forum, there is a dearth of male camraderie or "manly pursuits" Though I haven't been accused of being a Troll, yet, and I enjoy the females on this forum, it is a tad girly in subject matter in toto. Fashion, womens issues,the adoration of Peggy by so many, are driving me a little crazy. I don't know if it is homophobia, but the few men on this forum never communicate with each other. That is a generalization, I know. Basically I guess I am just thinking out loud.

mneeley490, consider yourself outed and most welcome. Just jump in. God knows, we could use more male perspective.

Hobo, I read your post 3X and finally figured out that your astute observation of the dearth (love that word) of the male way of life is exactly the same thing the women are talking about. Yes, times were a changing. Your analysis is interesting, but funny, we (the ladies) are saying the same thing.

A troll? God no. Homophobe? Hardly. Outnumbered? Absolutely. I am not interested in the comments such as "were those the right gloves?' I find that boring, but hey, that's just me. And you are so right that the men do not address each other. The girls do it all the time.

I suspect (and please, anybody - male or female - help me out here) we are just better (rather, more comfortable) talking about feelings and being open, more so than men.

We (girls) disect everybody up and down. We can talk on the phone for hours, and men just don't do that. "A tad girly" (very honest and I daresay fair) -
I suspect that there are many men who like this show and read the comments, but do not join - maybe too much talking about feelings, pain, etc. seems to girly. I commend you for being man enough to hang in there. And you are fun. And original, and interesting.

Okay male lurkers, are you man enough? Join us. God knows, Hobo and Greg and Don and the others might need your back.

Betty spoke about her modeling in Europe, when she pulled out all these dresses from the back from her closet one afternoon. She recalled how she wore various outfit or dress in (a photographer's studio for a photoshoot, while modeling in Europe.) For her exact wording,I'd have to view that season episode again.

Betty speaks Italian, good for her.

I think one direction the series is moving toward is the growing cause of feminism, especially as the 60's decade rolls on.

I can see Peggy eventually taking over S-C or starting an agency of her own, doing pro bono work for progressive and feminist causes--maybe she'll take in Joan as a partner.

Also--and maybe I'm really stretching it here--Peggy may eventually realize that she's just not into guys all that much. Was there a foreshadowing in the first series, when one of the guys in the office jokingly compared her to Gertrude Stein?

Betty spoke about her modeling in Europe, when she pulled out all these dresses from the back from her closet one afternoon. She recalled how she wore various outfit or dress in (a photographer's studio for a photoshoot, while modeling in Europe.) For her exact wording,I'd have to view that season episode again

I hope episode is Roger-Jane-Joan-Doc-Pete-Duck-Peggy-Don-Betty-Sal-Kitty-Trudie-Harry......SC.

Betty spoke about her modeling in Europe, when she pulled out all these dresses from the back from her closet one afternoon. She recalled how she wore various outfit or dress in (a photographer's studio for a photoshoot, while modeling in Europe.) For her exact wording,I'd have to view that season episode again

I hope episode is Roger-Jane-Joan-Doc-Pete-Duck-Peggy-Don-Betty-Sal-Kitty-Trudie-Harry......SC.

Hi greytone!

I am glad to see your posts again!! Thanks for the trick or treater info. for tonight's episode.

So, here comes my craziest theory for tonights' show to date...
Sally, dressed as a witch (since Betty thinks she is one), gets all "sugared up", goes berserk, attempts to beat the whole family with her broom, and gets off using "the twinkie defense" from an actual case a few years ago!
Scarey, I did this without any alcohol...

P.S. Bobby will be dressed as a burgler with pantyhose on his head...
Gene will be dressed as a baby carrot...

Here's one for all of you symbolism junkies out there.

So far, three different boys have been cast as Bobby. I believe this to be symbolic and foretelling of the Kennedy family's soon-to-unfold tragedies.

Or, two of the three just couldn't believably deliver the line "Can I pet him?"

My temporary avatar is inspired by greg, 60’s child & bluegirl on separate thread, “Contrast of the artwork”. Fascinating. (I’m still in REM state.)

Thanks first avenue for reminder about Betty’s Italian modeling background. P.S. don’t you hate it when your comment gets loaded repeatedly? I think the first time it goes up it works, but there’s a delay so it looks like it isn’t there yet.

I'm a symbolism junkie, and intrigued by the fashion and character dissection ... all these details are symbolic clues to the the entire story and its meaning, and the producers of this show obviously are very meticulous about what people wear, all the props, and every word of dialogue that reveals character. Women’s clothing is more imaginative than men’s so maybe it’s a “girly” thing.

"Betty's awakening happy bed stretch in Rome was like Scarlet's after Rhett satisfied her (temporarily). "

Ahhh yes and if you recall that was the night he "raped" her. He kissed her against her will..he carrier up the stairs forceably and declares "this is one night you're not turning me out!"

but I guess times change...

Any Procol Harum fans out there? I flashed on this song immediately when I saw the title "Wee Small Hours", even though it isn't period-correct for 1963:

In the wee small hours of sixpence
And the lighted chandelier
Stands a rusty old retainer
Whose old eyes are filled with tears
For his master, good sir galant,
Who is now off to the wars
And although his eyes are crying
We know grief is not the cause
And if grief is not the reason
He must be of sterner stuff
And his sword though old and rusty
Must be blunt as sharp enough

In the wee small hours of sixpence
And the broken window pane
Stand the remnants of the evening
Who are waiting all in vain
For the crowing of the cockerel
Showing morning is not night
But the air is filled with silence
And the daylight is not bright
But still darkness is no reason
We are men of sterner stuff
And our swords though old and rusty
Still are blunt as sharp enough.

In the wee small hours of sixpence
And the hat-stand in the hall
Waiting only for the morning
Shadows flitting 'cross the wall
And perhaps that old retainer
Whom now giving of his all
May have once been just as we are
And now has no face at all.
But still grief was not the reason
He was made of sterner stuff
And his sword though old and rusty
Still was blunt as sharp enough.

Procol Harum : In The Wee Small Hours of Sixpence Lyrics

I only recall Procol Harum from "A Whiter Shade of Pale." Interesting words though.

@6465nywf I vaguely remember that song, I checked my copy of their first album and Shine on Brightly and it wasn't on either. Any chance you know the album from whence it came.

Hobo, you reminded me that Don still hasn't thrown the ball around with Bobby, even though he told Dennis the prison guard that he's aware it hasn't happened often enough. Or ever?) I thought he might correct that little thing, but last week Betty still had to remind him to go outside with his kids, who were in the yard catching lightning bugs. It sounds like he will also miss an opportunity to take Bobby to a World Series game or two, considering he probably could score some tickets in his line of work. :-(

Don gives his wife and children things. Someday, when they ask "what did you bring me?" he will give them time and attention. Poor guy, he really can't win.

Hobo, my husband says the PH song "In the Wee Small Hours of Sixpence" was never released on a US album. It's in mono, released in 1968 as a single. It is included on the A&M album "The Best of Procol Harum".

Hi A-line!
That picture! My my...are you sure you're not Bert Cooper?!

I love the new avatar, but, your original with Don's head on the farmer is the funniest one I have ever seen!
And very clever, considering Don/Dick's backround!

HAPPIEST MAD MEN-DAY TO Y'ALL!

LOVE the Madlicious pre-show witty banter and info here!

I did not see Jon on Letterman. Some folks were saying on the other thread that Dave didn't seem to know much about MM (uncomfortably so). Please advise further!

Great to see greytone back in the mix!

-Zerelda: you nailed it: tonite is going to be about what keeps our characters awake and restless in the middle of the night.
Great conjecture!

SAL is pictured on AMC alluding to epi 9. I wonder what will happen w/ him?!

I think that the fainting/feinting chaise lounge is a physical-material representation of Henry Francis. We will know soon, if it's in the house or not, what Betty feels about him currently!

Are we unanimous in thinking that Trudy knows Pete was unfaithful, even though he did not verbally confess; or am I being redundant?

MAD LOVE to RACY: Get well soon Darling! You are greatly cherished and missed!

MADDICTS: THANK YOU for your supreme tolerance. I do have a WEE problem that I am MADDressing. CHEERS!

LOVE and PEACE!

Hi again A-line!

American Gothic, thanks. I couldn't remember the name of the painting.

Hobo, I thought it was on Shine On Brightly too, but I guess I stand corrected! Thanks 52!

Found this link on the "Basket of Kisses" site this morning. Kind of mind-blowing.

http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/recent-emmy-winning-young-female-writer-loses-her-job-on-mad-men/

Hi flowerpower (many posts up)!

I was not impressed with David Letterman's interview of Jon Hamm either, obviously Letterman is not a fan.

Did you catch what Jon said he used to do for a job?
That was funny! He said he was responsible to rearrange props on the late night movies shown on Cinemax (had to be the soft porn ones).
He was just so cute when talking about it, a little shy, and able to laugh about it.

Then, I got thinking...maybe that's where he perfected his Don Draper moves!

flowerpower and fancynancy:

Jon Hamm's appearance on Letterman: Very disappointing for us MADDICTS. Letterman seemed rather spacy. There were a few comments on Jon's new movie filmed in Boston. Then a clueless question about Mad Men. I think Jon would have bantered about Don Draper's escapades a bit more, but Letterman rushed thru the interview, and as someone said, had to refer to his notes several times. An assistant had written in the notes that MM had won an Emmy for best drama. Letterman obviously does not watch our show! Then he rushed Jon H off, because there were two other guests to present.
On the bright side, Jon looked great. I agree with the comment that MM should have Don Draper smile a bit more....gorgeous

60's Child-
How dare you throw out crazy halloween-themed speculation! I love it! It is good to see a dame with a warped wit in here! Where did the "Gene will be dressed as a baby carrot" thing come from though?!?
The CSI Housecat's don't have a sense of humor and will likely accuse you of being a troll! I guess the rise of feminism in this forum seems to coincide with the rise of radical feminism in the 60's...
I thought the same thing on that Letterman interview... Jon Hamm was a fuzzy-dot porno prop-jockey! Classic!
Now would some broad be a doll and bring me a Bourbon and Coke...

I'm an upstate NY kid who is now living in Nebraska. During the HUGE Nebraska vs. Missouri football game on Thursday night, the University of MO. ran a promo for the school which ended with Jon Hamm admitting that he actually went to school there. Feeling the way I do about Missouri as a state, in comparison to the way I love JH and MM, I almost threw up on my friends carpet when I saw this.
My best friend who also is a Nebraska football and Mad Men junkie couldn't believe this either until I told him that when Mr. Hamm attended Missouri he actually was registered as "Dick Whitman."
Sorry if any of my fellow Maddicts live in the "Show Me State" but if you've ever seen any of the chuds that live and breed there, you know what I mean.

Holy Schamoley--the show is 5 hours away and we're already at 160ish posts! I can't wait for tonight--I just got back from 5 days in NYC (we are planning our move back there) and it was so very Mad Men-ish!

Menace--my DH is from southeast Missouri (the bootheel) and boy oh boy, he would agree with you! That is exactly where Jon Hamm is from as well, I think. Indeed, I think he might have been from near Cape Girardeau, eek!

I do like St. Louis a bit, though not the suburbs there (my DH's nephew lives about 40 minutes west and it's scary). But near Wash U, Clayton (I think that's the neighborhood?) and the Hill, etc. are all okay.

I am sick of Betty this year! She is a spoiled brat, just like her stupid kids! Whiney, and poor me, I have to take care of our kids all by myself, boo woo! Get a job or do something with your life. This season is a bore.

YIKES! help me, why is my post double loading. Double Yikes! help......okay I will press the submit button lightly and not look back. Hope it works.
What am I doing to get all these double loads?

Here goes with the light press and no return until tonight.
Enjoy the episode everyone! Until later. bye

jas495-Betty's husband should, and does, bring home the bacon. That's the way it was, and still should be, but women are making more than men now. Is that why a lot of the men trollsters are upset with us gals on here? We've got it all now!

Why in the world cant they post the newest posts first!!!

@ Betty Crocker, Forgive me but what is a "DH"?
BTW I grew up in Saratoga Springs, NY. That's about 35 miles straight south of "Lake George"

Also, in high school we actually wrestled the Ossining High School team at a dual meet tournament in Newburgh, NY.
"Ossining is a colorful mix of people" - Yes, they had the oddest wrestling team we ever faced up against in high school, but they sure were tough. Me and the boys from Saratoga lost to them that afternoon in 1997 like 63-9!

okay not a double post but a continue....hurrah!

I was watching the first season episode of Pete's Bachelor night out Party at the nightclub.
Pete tried to put his hand up a woman's skirt at the table. He made her very uncomfortable, she told him to stop, but he continued. She finally said with gritted teeth, stop you are hurting me. He looked confused, ashamed. The girl got up and moved to the other side of the table with Harry, Sal, etc and enjoyed herself.
Pete may have been a guy who just always took what he wanted from dates, but back then , none of the girls spoke about it...later after the Bachelor Party he went and knocked on Peggy's door (BOOTY-CALL!) and she lets him into her bedroom after a few words.

bye

Menace:
DH=Dear/Darling husband...

He's from southeast missouri.

Betty..I thought he said he was from St. Louis on Letterman? I heard Don Johnson would say he was from Springfield when he was from a small town outside of Springfield. Boy, that was awful, that apperance on letterman. but Jon Hamm ...it was great to see him being who he really is and looking so much younger than he has been looking on Mad Men.

Just want to share while we wait:
I took my dear husband ( DH) to the airport this afternoon to catch his flight back to Brazil (to work).

We always sit down after he checks in for a few before he goes through security. This time there was a baby grand player piano. Yes a player piano. The keys were moving and it was producing beautiful music, playing some very old tunes. We were enjoying the relaxing melodies very much.

Imagine my surprise when “Wee Small Hours” started to play! I thought ”Oh wow….”

Just three hours to go! I’m so excited ! ! !

I haven’t had much of a chance to be here; busy doing exterior painting and sprucing up the house for fall. Anyone heard from racy's mother?

@60s child - that's very flattering that you suggest I am BC but I could not possibly fill his socks.

@Sab: Bryan Batt also looks much younger in person than he does on the show .....And what a coincidence with the player piano doing "Wee Small Hours"!!!

Jon Hamm was born in St. Louis and attended high school in Ladue, which is a great suburb of St. Louis
I am Missouri born and raised. Kansas City, MO and St. Louis are both wonderful cities. Someone made a snarky comment about Missouri. Please. Remember, Brad Pitt is from Springfield, MO, a relatively small town in the very Bible Belt-ish southwest MO. Missouri has given us Ed Asner, Walter Cronkite, Maya Angelou, Omar Bradley, TS Eliot, and scores of others, including Jon Hamm. Unfortunately, MO has also given us the idiocy of Rush Limbaugh.
stop bashing MO!

BBK--I just googled--he is indeed from St. Louis...someone else recently "famous" went to Southeast Missouri State, near where my DH grew up. I thought it was Jon Hamm, but it's someone else.

I think the person who slammed Missouri is from Missouri, so that gives them a bit more license than someone who has never lived there, I suppose. It has some wonderful native sons and daughters though--my own DH and his sisters included (all of whom are very grateful to get out of southeast Missouri, truth be told, but Sikeston does have Lamberts, home of the Throwed Rolls...so it's not all bad.

And my SIL lived in KC, near the riverwalk area (lots of artists and gays) and she said that was pretty fun. And great BBQ, of course.

@FiftyTwo thanks for the clarification on the Procol Harum tune.. Not one of their best at all in my opinion

bettycrocker:
Yes, the greatest barbeque in the world!
Gates, Arthur Bryants......famous places
and yes, if the slammer is from Missouri, he has a right to slam....there are many places in MO I wouldn't want to live! A bit too right wing for me! But the big cities are just fine.

watching JFK on the history channel. See y'all soon ! :o)

I think a "Wee Small" something was on the thread@ 5:04pm.

Hobo, glad to help. Hubby's a big reader of liner notes. We appreciate your input on Hot Tuna-- they're playing an acoustic show at our Birchmere club on Dec. 3. Hope we can make it. Patty Loveless is here "with friends" on Nov. 1st, a must-see for me.

Are you watching the Yankees? I think a NYY-LAD Series would be fun. Congrats on the NYG win, even though I'm a Raiders fan from the late sixties, and a Jets fan, too.

And I'm not referring to a troll......

Just killing time before the show....
@Menace @BettyCrocker @BBK-
I've spent time in every state in the US (thanks to my years as a flight attendant), plus I've lived in NYC, LA, Cedar Rapids, Denver, Dallas, Boston, and Key West.
The place I've settled down to raise my family is:
Kansas City, Missouri.
It's amazingly inexpensive to live here. Gas is cheap, houses are cheap, and the city is large enough to not feel like a small town, BUT it's racially divided, it's the meth capitol of the country, and it's painfully far from the ocean.
I don't care about sports whatsoever, even if Jon Hamm is talking. ;)
@SugarBear- He'll be waiting on that drink forever!

@amybett: YES he will. Kansas City is the meth capital of the US? Had no idea.

@SugarBear- Before someone corrects me, I don't think it's Kansas City specifically, but Missouri in general, which has the most meth lab seizures in the nation. Fun Facts!

**********************START HERE*************************

@DeepDish: I WAS THE ONE who posted the separate thread: "What Are Your Memories of President Kennedy's Asassination?' (b4 Eepisodes 6 threads begin to be listed, if that helps). Please post your memories, and those of your Great Aunt, please post your memories. I'm a Kennedy fanatic & I'm very interested in whatever anyone has to write. Please write the AGE of the person whose memory is being posted. I am especially interested in those born in 1956 & 1957. I also posted the separate thread: "What are Your (film or TV) Guilty Pleasures, & What 4 Films Would You Present To An Audience (the way they have people present on TCM)?" I read both posts & am in the process of answering posters on what they've written.

@hobocode52: I just got OUT of the hospital! Please don't start posting baseball trivia, or I may have a relapse. In fact, I'm sure I will (no other spots either.)

WELCOME BACK RACY!!! Hope you are feeling better, we missed you.

Corporate imperialism a la Conrad Hilton, lol! God and dollars...And waking up people in the middle of the night, just cuz you can.

Betty just compared Connie to an infant! So true...

The theme is DREAMS.

What did Betty's note to Henry say, and vice versa--I couldn't read them in time?

Boy, that Sal is a regular "Dude Magnet."

@Betty: Betty's note said "Does anyone else read this."

I'm starting to lose interest. It's becoming all too predictable.

And I knew that client was gay, from the second he stepped into the screening room.

Hiya, Race! How are you feeling?

Would anyone please tell me what Betty wrote on that piece of paoper & the envelope, and what was written on the note she received in the mail?

@Greg: Did you notice that Betty was holding a glass a/ probably red wine in it, when Don found her sleeping in the chair?

SOB....tabacco snot face Lee

Would anyone please tell me what Betty wrote on that piece of paper & the envelope, and what was written on the note she received in the mail?

@Greg: Did you notice that Betty was holding a glass w/ probably red wine in it, when Don found her sleeping in the chair?

Great timing, Lucky!

I picked up on this about three episodes ago: has anyone else noticed that people on this show never say goodbye when they talk on the phone?

Oh, Lord, where have we heard Connie's philosophy before? LOL!

He's a loon!

Anyone know how close this is to the "real" connie Hilton? All I know is that Nicky was married to Elizabeth Taylor briefly.

You can't pull anything over on Carla!! I love her!

Here comes Mr. Oh! Henry....this ought to be interesting...and I can see Carla thinking “NOT...” after Oh! Henry came out with that “...and this is a great place for a fundraiser

Holy mother of god! Poor Sal.

MEMO:
There will be mandatory sensitivity training Monday for Creative in Harry's office.
Don

Betty N Henry are acting like a couple of 12 year olds. Sheesh...And poor Sal...

OH NO!!! SAL! :( Poor guy!

anyone remember the island of misfit toys?

maybe Joan, Peggy and Sal can be the island of misfit admen...

Connie Hilton is Loony Toon!

The site is so bad tonight, I just got on after many tries. What's goin on w/it? Who's that woman who just walked into betty's? So familiar looking.

And that's just a sign of things to come in corporate America--crazy megalomaniac tyrants who want to take over the world!

Betty got dissed! What's up with that?

Miss Farrell in the wee hours: the concept of "jogging" (running slower than 6 mph) came to the United States in 1962. Very important.

The show is very soapy when not at the office!

Good grief – Connie is more infantile than Little Baby Gene Scott Draper! Sheesh....

And he actually POUTED when he didn’t get what he wanted.

Oh! Henry is now No! Henry....hehe

@pi168 That is hilarious!!

Sal in the park with the leather boys!????

Hysterical that Betty thnks Carla can be fooled so easily.

Well, Don is up to his old ways. I knew it wouldn't last.

See Dick Run.

And isn’t Don getting lower and lower on the food chain.

Sarah Vaughan, Prelude to a Kiss?

I feel so bad for Sal but Don's reaction is more of what I would have expected inthe 1960's than just turning a blind eye. especially wih Don's rural background. And lastly it was only a matter of time for Don and that drunk teacher. She's gonna be trouble.

Well, the bunny is about to be boiled.

Betty will find out. Sooner than later.

Does anyone else think Miss Farrell looks an awful lot like Rachel Mencken?

King's "I Have a Dream" speech and the church bombing in Birmingham on the radio. No trick-or-treaters. The date is Sept. 4 on the first day of school for the Draper kids.

Poor Sal but that reaction from Don was more of the reaction I would have thought to be the norm in the 1960s. That teacher will prove to be more trouble that she's worth.

In the "wee small hours" our characters find a way to get what they really want....or do they?

Don wants, goes after and gets Ms. Farrell!

Connie wants the moon, but doesn't get it.

Sal gets it in the park, but tells his wife he loves her...

Betty wants it, no not that way, pet the kitty right or she'll scratch you! Yikes! I now officially hate Betty!

Don and Connie really wanted/needed each other that night at the Waldorf...not so much in the conference room though...

Carla's no dummy...I hope she can get out of the Draper house soon!!

POOR SAL? Don wanted him to whore out to Lucky Strike??!!

Pete was telling hillbilly jokes?! Who knows the lead up to the punchline, "That's not my finger!" Dick Whitman....that's who!!

@Racy- Welcome Back! Hope you are feeling better!

At least Betty had the sense to move"Jabba the Couch" away from the mantle before the fundraiser....

They are starting to get a little heavyhanded with the JFK/Dallas references.

CH tells Don ... "New York is not a destination city like, say,... Dallas"

I love MM so much but was a bit disappointed with this episode. Overall it felt like a let-down. Why are they spending so much time on Hilton and his eccentricities? OK, he's picky, quirky, and wants a hotel on the moon. Why are we supposed to care about this particular client so much? Why did they waste so much time with this whole Betty-Henry thing just to have it go absolutely nowhere? If Don and Miss Farrell are going to sleep together, why wait so long? Why bring up MLK and the 4 little girls only to use it for 2 casual throw-away references on the radio? That seemed like a total waste when they could have used it for a serious look at an important issue. Like perhaps show us something about Carla's life? She's a great character but gets so little to do on the show. We're at Episode 9 out of 13 for this season now-- shouldn't dramatic tension be starting to come to a head? More intensity, more focus, more Joan, less Hilton, please. JMHO of course...

Well, I'm just broken-hearted about Sal.....and I miss Joanie.....and I miss decent Peggy time(what has happened with Duck? does he come sniffing round? is Peggy finally icked out, like the rest of the world?) I thought the Conrad Hilton story line would be thrilling and international, but now it seems it's just going to make Don miserable. Sits wringing my hands worriedly.

It seems to me that Don has been slowly losing control this season, even if he's not always aware of it (signing a contract, being saddled with Hilton, his wife's infidelity) and it makes me wonder where he's going to end up. Also, where are all these great characters (Joan and Sal) going?? I just can't believe that they are actually out of the show, especially with Joan's brief appearance last episode. I found this to be a very frustrating show this week. I'm getting impatient.

So Et Tu Dick?

This is how it rolls – you tell one of your key players to give it up to a client???

Maybe Harry thought he was doing the right thing by NOT saying anything to Don or Roger. “He was loaded; I thought it would blow over.” (And it also sounds like another bad pun or black humor, to me)

And now Sal has to stall for time and try to figure out what to do, now he’s got no job and how is he going to tell Kitty why he’s got no job?

Don moved to the other side of the bed to be closer to the sound of "his masters voice"! At least Don liked the other side of the bed in Rome.....

I have been reading the blogs for the past few episodes and felt I needed to make a comment I hope will be read by MW and the writers.

More Roger Sterling. A Sterling one-liner can balance out the darkest of the MM episodes. His character will most of the time bring humor when it seems like there's none to be had.

More Sterling. Even the other characters one-liners ABOUT Roger are hilarious...."Sterling's in Jane."

It's interesting to see the vise squeeze on Don, but I fail to see what Henry Francis or the schoolteacher are adding to anything. Hey, Betty fantasizes about a different life! Hey, Don cheats! I think all of that was pretty clear in Episode 1, Season 1.

I do think the firing of Sal was one of the more realistic things we've seen this year. That was very well done (and sad.)

It's interesting to see the vise squeeze on Don, but I fail to see what Henry Francis or the schoolteacher are adding to anything. Hey, Betty fantasizes about a different life! Hey, Don cheats! I think all of that was pretty clear in Episode 1, Season 1.

I do think the firing of Sal was one of the more realistic things we've seen this year. That was very well done (and sad.)

I thought Don made no sense going after the teacher-way too soapy!

Please, hire Sal back, Don! We love Sal! Sal is awesome. My 14 year-old daughter and I about cried when you fired Sal! Don, "fix this!"

Don's getting lower on the food chain.

Don said "you people" to Sal. WTF??!!
it seemed personal....?
I Still can't believe Sal is fired! :(

Maybe this is a long shot guess but is it possible that one by one Don’s crew will be gone from SC by the time Season 3 is over? Joan is gone, now Sal, and possibly Harry next...who knows?

There’s that whole “fall” of the Roman Empire theme again....

First Joan and now Sal? I want to see more of these characters, not less.

@bluegirl--I don't think Hilton REALLY wants the moon. He wants THE MOON! He wants EVERYthing from here to there. He doesn't want Don to give 100%, he wants The Moon. There is a fine line with Hilton, and it just happens to have a gap as wide as from here to the moon.
IMHO, of course.

Wow..this just..Sal..NO! Who is Don to deplore Sal for leading a double life?! AUUUUGHHHH! Ramming fists into wall...When Sal asked Don about the tables being turned and Don's smug response about it depending on the woman, etc. I wanted to punch him in the jaw. Don has no scruples and bags every goddamn woman who comes onto him--I guess he expected the same of "you people". I've noticed Kurt has gotten away with being gay because he's foreign and more junior but I was seriously expecting Sal to last longer than this. I'm sure he'll be back; just have no idea where he'll go now (Gray??).

Everyone is being a little hard on Henry! So he's old and wizened..he also seems kind and tactful. Betty *is* a 12 year old--she's completely emotionally arrested in her development. As much as I want her to have an affair I don't think she's capable of pulling it off.

Carla: you go girl. Leverage that knowledge as long as you can. As for Betty being so out of touch with what she might be thinking or caring about--friggg. Another fist in the wall moment.

Connie is bad news. And where the HELL has Roger been?? It's time for him to step up to the plate in Season 3!

I can barely type this...my eyes are welling with tears. What the hell is going on? Sal being fired by Roger...this has to be one of the biggest OH! SH*T moments ever. The other OS moments: Betty and what's his name; Don and the teacher; Connie Hilton getting religion. Too much for this old soul to handle.

Another OS moment: Carla not being able to listen to the service for the little girls that were killed in the church fire. Yes, Betty said to leave it on, but I don't think she meant it.

Yes, amybett, Don did say "you people" to Sal. That was after he asked Sal, "Who do you think you're talking to?" Don - no more Mr. nice guy.

Another OS moment: Betty refusing what's his name in his office - it's tawdry... but it was okay in the office of some bar. Can you say Hypocrisy?

Well, I guess we are seeing why the poster for this season shows Don surrounded by rising water. The man is clearly in trouble at work and at home.

I think I was as shocked as Sal to have Don betray him like that. We did not even get to see what Don said to that tobacco peddling weasel. Why couldn't they just remove Sal from that particular account? Why did they have to fire him from Sterling Cooper?

God, this site is awful tonight.

HI Racy...SO glad you're back!

Don still has the half mil.

What was that line in the cutting room about "you sound like you've got a salami in your mouth"?! :-o

Boyoboy, you really had to walk on eggs around Connie, didn’t you? His demands and his impulses and his id and his ego – he’s more infantile than Baby Gene Scott Draper.

So is Sal off the show? Is he coming back? Will "Ducks" firm pick him up? And oh yea, Carla is wise to Mrs. Drapers tricks...I wonder is the end of the show remarks about civil rights will come back and haunt Mrs. D?

I did not know there was "park cruising" in the 60's. I always thought that was a post stonewall thing. I feel more sympathy and dread for Sal's plight then I do Joan's. Even though it's silly to feel bad for a fictional character. I wish Sal had more commercials under his belt before they kicked him out. he has such a good eye for film making. I think I feel so sad because we know his road for happiness is going to be long and convoluted for such a sweet soul.

I think Don's pursuit of the teacher is something totally different than previous affairs. His "Are you stupid or pure...?" reaction to her plan to share the MLK speech with children shows that he's seeing something he can't catagorize. And if you think about Betty and Henry, Henry IS the guy she should be married to. But chances are, he's Catholic, so he can't marry a divorced woman.

As for Sal, oh, Sal! Instead of bringing Joan back, they're getting rid of more great characters.

Finally, Carla, Carla, Carla. MORE Carla, Carla, Carla. Her reaction to Betty and that family is always right on-point. I know she can't be more proactive - that wouldn't be realistic - but I want to see more of her... doing... I don't know... SOMETHING! On the news for getting arrested at a protest? Needing an advance on her pay so she can bail out her protesting college son out of jail in Alabama, for sitting at a segregated lunch counter? Something to bring that whole story line home to the Drapers.

Hi RMG! You certainly may be right there. I don't honestly know which way he meant the moon comment. (I'm not sure Don understood either! Looked a bit befuddled!) My point was more that I'm getting awfully tired of so much time spent on Hilton versus other storylines. It's getting repetitive.

MadMenSuze, that's a great observation! Perhaps we are witnessing the fall of the SC empire?

I feel like I vomited up this episode after ingesting all prior episodes... it's leaving a horrible taste in my mouth!!!

I've overdosed on MM and now I'm paying the price...

@rozsie- Ohh Betty made me angry in that scene with Carla at the Kitchen Table too!!

Don and Betty both so selfish and insensitive and aggressively stupid!!!!

Welcome back, Racy! So glad you're better! We were all sending good thoughts your way.

(((Hugs))) to rozsie... yes I'm a little teary about Sal too. I *love* Sal and wanted things to go well for him as commercial director. Now what's gonna happen to our guy?

Great ideas Anna Burke! I'm with you all the way on more Carla! I sure hope they aren't planning to get rid of Joan or Sal on the show... two of my favorites... I'm hoping they'll find a way to weave them in, even if not working at SC.

As Conrad Hilton so profoundly proclaims to Don, “You didn’t have what they had, and you understand.”

The parallels between Fitzgerald’s Jay Gatsby and Don Draper seemingly become more apparent with each passing episode. One quotation in particular is like a ray of moonlight when examining his character:

"His parents were shiftless and unsuccessful farm people--his imagination had never really accepted them as his parents at all. The truth was that Jay Gatsby of West Egg, Long Island, sprang from his Platonic conception of himself. He was a son of God... and he must be about His Father's business, the service of a vast, vulgar, and meretricious beauty. So he invented just the sort of Jay Gatsby that a seventeen year old boy would be likely to invent, and to this conception he was faithful to the end."

-F. Scott Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby, Ch. 6

Don, like Conrad, doesn’t want moonlight. He wants the moon.

Connie is a pain in the a**! And the teaser for next week looks pretty scarry...

Connie is a pain in the a**! And the teaser for next week looks pretty scarry...

@Spumco...hehe a Ren and Stimpy reference on the Mad Men board! Happyhappyjoyjoy to you too! Hehe

Getting back to Don booting Sal: disgusting. And remember how disgusted Don was when Freddy was being farmed out...ditto for Guy.

Yet he thinks nothing of flushing how many years’ worth of a strong

@Spumco...hehe a Ren and Stimpy reference on the Mad Men board! Happyhappyjoyjoy to you too! Hehe

Getting back to Don booting Sal: disgusting. And remember how disgusted Don was when Freddy was being farmed out...ditto for Guy.

Yet he thinks nothing of flushing how many years’ worth of a strong and solid relationship with somebody who he could depend upon as part of his team?

Interesting and unsettling to observe Don's "evolution" regarding Sal's private life. He was calm and unruffled and characteristically detached on the 'plane ride back from the West Coast in the first episode of the season, discretion and secrecy being Don's personal code. (okay, duplicity and serial philandering, too)
Yet this evening we find him judging Sal harshly, dismissing Sal with 2 chilling words: "You people..."
It was not only out of character, but it seemed a social anachronism for a straight guy in 1963 to express weary disapproval of Those People. It might happen today, when the plight of gays is alluded to on nightly news broadcasts, but in 1963 there was zero discussion of, or indeed familiarity with, the so called life style of "those" people.

Interesting and unsettling to observe Don's "evolution" regarding Sal's private life. He was calm and unruffled and characteristically detached on the 'plane ride back from the West Coast in the first episode of the season, discretion and secrecy being Don's personal code. (okay, duplicity and serial philandering, too)
Yet this evening we find him judging Sal harshly, dismissing Sal with 2 chilling words: "You people..."
It was not only out of character, but it seemed a social anachronism for a straight guy in 1963 to express weary disapproval of Those People. It might happen today, when the plight of gays is alluded to on nightly news broadcasts, but in 1963 there was zero discussion of, or indeed familiarity with, the so called life style of "those" people.

Interesting and unsettling to observe Don's "evolution" regarding Sal's private life. He was calm and unruffled and characteristically detached on the 'plane ride back from the West Coast in the first episode of the season, discretion and secrecy being Don's personal code. (okay, duplicity and serial philandering, too)
Yet this evening we find him judging Sal harshly, dismissing Sal with 2 chilling words: "You people..."
It was not only out of character, but it seemed a social anachronism for a straight guy in 1963 to express weary disapproval of Those People. It might happen today, when the plight of gays is alluded to on nightly news broadcasts, but in 1963 there was zero discussion of, or indeed familiarity with, the so called life style of "those" people.

Don and the Teacher..well, he's certainly playing very close to home now. And I do think the teacher's ability to be in touch with Sally has a lot to do with his attraction to her since Betty is so completely clueless in that department.
I'm not sure it's different in other ways though..the affairs are pure escapism into what he perceives to be the "real" him (Dick Whitman); not Don Draper. So until he comes clean about being Dick he will always be skirt chasing.

Betty and Henry..this is different than the angry one-nighter after Don comes clean about his "fooling around" because Betty actually thinks they're in love.

Hey, welcome Spumco! OMG I was the hugest Ren & Stimpy fan when I was little! I drew them all over my school notebooks. Happy happy joy joy! The Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen! Etc. I can still sing the songs. It's Log log log!

I'm a bit frustrated with this week's episode too. Don's running off to Suzanne was so predictable; his work is suffering, so he steps out with another woman. We've seen this already. So many times over... I'm not against Betty's relationship with Henry Francis though; that seems to be an interesting development. Sal's firing on the heels of Joan's departure from Sterling Coop saddens me, but I'm intrigued to see how that develops (his lie to Kitty in the phone booth was extremely heartbreaking and an interesting development too). Don's... homophobia also seemed extremely jarring and slightly uncharacteristic. Roger's also being much more of a jerk than usual... I want to see him doling out more quips and less venomous remarks. We've lost Joan, and since Don's losing his grip he's not loosening up anytime soon...

Maddicts: Two questions: Does anyone know who was singing "Prelude to a Kiss" at the end of the show? I have a recording of Johnny Hodges on sax doing it. Beautiful song...
Question #2 - Why did Sal tell Kitty he would be late coming home? Was he going to take his frustration/anger out and have a fling with one of those leather-clad guys? That was soooo mean what happened to him!

@bluegirl: that show was NOT for kids. Not ever. Heh

Anybody want to form a theory that Don led a secret lifestyle way back when?

And to answer somebody’s question a couple weeks ago re: where did they find Don? – apparently Don was found by Roger in Roger’s travels way back when – it’s on the next episode preview.

For all those who think Joan is gone for good, Episode 11, according to Fancast, says it features Joan and her husband "planning for the future." You didn't think MW would get rid of one of the show's stars?

I see that Betty is insensitive to the need for civil rights and Don is insensitive to Sal's need not to be sexually harassed. Of course for the time, not so unusual. And it's not like D&B are progressive people. Wonder if Don will have his consciousness raised by being with the teacher?

I wonder if this is a build-up to another power play between Don and Duck - how many people will Duck hire if he hears they are available? He always seemed to have a good (professional) relationship with Joan...not sure about Sal, but I just can't believe that these two characters are out of the show. I mean, why bring Duck back at all if there isn't going to be some sort of confrontation?

What's the song that the show ended and went into credits with?

I was shocked when Betty drove to Henry’s office…I screamed when she threw the box at him…(No one is here but me) Wow, don’t make Betty mad! Then I was relieved when she decided she couldn’t go on. And then she walked out.
But is that the end or will Henry come back ? Is Betty setting a trap for Henry? Or is he going to be a stalker instead of Miss Farrell?
And is that the end for Sal ? Will he be found beaten and dead in the park or is he going to Hollywood to work in television production?
I don’t want this actor off of Mad Men. He’s good at what he does. And his character is important.

@Fifty-two: No that's not Sarah Vaughan. I think it is someone more current singing the song.

It makes some sense that Connie would be a little loony about having a Hilton on the moon. If you remember, there was a product placement for Hilton on the universal space station in the 1968 movie, "2001 A Space Odyssey".

http://bp0.blogger.com/_m3bnyigioVU/RXPnx0xg8oI/AAAAAAAAAAs/IzcV6fXneTM/s1600-h/Picture+2.png

@wasthere & hef...I could be wrong, but I think it sounded like Sarah Vaughan singing the song at the end.

BTW there was a brief mention via TV news, I think, about the murder of those women in New York. It went by so fast. Some posters talked about it last episode.

Roger can be so rude with his remarks, i.e., telling Don he's had his head in Hilton's lap, etc...I thought it more vulgar than most of his quips.

Love Carla and her knowing looks.

"Who are you?" Don asked teacher....the SAME words he said to Joy!

@adamx, I'm with you. I really fear what's going to happen to Sal, both immediately and in the long term. We know Joanie can take care of herself, but Sal? He's so vulnerable right now emotionally, physically and professionally.

I'm hoping that Luckie Strike Brat will be at whatever gay bar Sal finds, that Sal gets to explore the sexual side of his sexuality, and the brat gets him hired back at SC... with a raise.

And Joanie comes back and runs the TV Department after Harry gets demoted.

And Don and Betty are both so happy with their othah lovahs that they don't care that the other is having an affair.

And they all live happily evah aftah.

The End. :)

Hello - does anyone know who was performing "Prelude to a Kiss" at the end of tonight's episode? (my guess was Dana Owens a.k.a. Queen Latifa).

First viewing thoughts made while watching- sorry for the disjoint---

I think it was Don Betty was dreaming of - proving she still wants him and her disappointment at the return probably had more to do with the return to reality. In Rome, Don was only at Connie's beck and call, and Connie went easy on him, considering - it's the honeymoon period. Now he will be assailed from all sides.

Oh - further on down the line - I had no idea when Betty asked Henry, "Does anyone read this?" that she was asking about confidentiality of his mail. Guess I was wrong. And naive. Again.

Oh, no, Don picks up the pesky teacher. Grr. Don is awestruck because she wants to read MLK's speech to the class and now she is some sort of superwoman because she has feelings most reasonable people would have? Both are still skirting around the edges of fidelity and I for one am not happy. I must be Pollyanna.

Whoever the prescient person was who was talking about the murders of the girls showing up - kudos!

Lee Garner - what a sleazeball! Going after Sal, not respecting Sal's consideration of his marriage, and then wanting him fired from the job - which Sal seemed to be doing quite well. (Had to laugh at Pete's coughing in the back ground of the shoot!) If he "knows what he knows" he should respect Sal's position. This is the equivalent of Pete's pressure on the au pair. Except Garner doesn't make an implied threat; he just delivers the rotten payload.

I like the exploration of Sal's conflicts as it's much more realistic than many want to believe. I really hurt for the guy and am impressed with his concern for Kitty - which concern Don and Betty seem to have tossed to the wind.

Oh, what, now Don is mad at Sal for not letting himself be bullied? And he's firing him? So much for the armor - it's definitely chinked. I thought he was always a friend of the bullied underdog? Cuts Sal dead and never looks back; expects him to prostitute himself just as Pete expected Trudy to do over his book. Not so different from Pete after all.

Carla is suspicious of Henry's appearance - now does that mean that she gets fired? She's definitely losing respect for Betty, especially after the comment that it may not be a good time for civil rights - right on the heels of Betty's concern. It looks as though Betty is trying to grow into a compassionate person and the fit is just not right yet.

LOL - Khruschev and Disneyland - forgot about that!

Looks like Don is getting the "what goes around" from Hilton. Even Connie recognizes that Don's demeanor is such that people fear to correct him. He casts an illusion concerning his nature that everyone seems to buy - including the viewer. Maybe this is what Betty sees through. Obviously Don is not used to even his clients saying his stuff is just good, and he can't talk his way out of it. "We'll see," indeed. Bring on the moon, Don.

Wow, is Betty po'd at Henry. She's making a fool of herself. Ah, she caught herself. Good judgment, or just disappointment that a quickie on his office couch isn't a very romantic idea?

Betty backs out; Don plays true to form and assuages himself with the teacher. So disappointing; so Don. I'm back to not having any respect for him after the teacher tells him she knows the ending - (loneliness and being used for her; back to his marriage for him) and his response is so what??? "I want you; doesn't that mean anything to someone like you?" If I weren't a lady I would cold-cock anyone who responded to my concerns like that.

Looking like the beginning of the end for Don with two important accounts on the line. Free fall not far behind?

Ooh, "Prelude to a Kiss" Yum.

@ Deep Dish - thanks - I thought that sounded like some sort of rehearsed pick up line! Who are you, indeed. Shallower and shallower. Ugh.

I am SO sad about Sal....we need Joan and Sal back and I totally agree about Carla.....Carla is so savvy....if only Betty would have a real conversation with her!!! Carla could help her so much if Betty would treat her as a human being and not a servant.

Yes, Miss Farrell reminds me of Rachel Menken, and also of Midge.....

I can't see where all this is going to wind up, but it is very disturbing...Rome is definitely burning.

So ummm that whole thing with Don Draper reforming and being a good daddy/husband? Not so much it turns out. I was really really hoping the teacher would turn him down; I'm finding this whole "no woman can resist his charms" thing a bit ridiculous at this point. Not to mention, Don is doing EXACTLY what he shouldn't do - sleeping around near home (which is what Pete got busted for last week). It's an idiotic move and I hope it comes back to haunt him.

I know people were shocked at how Don treated Sal and I was for a bit too - I really thought Don would try to fix the situation while keeping Sal's secret. But upon further reflection, I think I was wrong to be shocked with Don's behavior - he has never come off as "progressive" or even that empathetic to me (I know I'm in a minority on this). Somehow because of his overall charm (which was in short supply this episode), he gets away with being labeled as progressive for talking to a black waiter in a restaurant in season 1, episode 1 (just as an example). Don has his ethical moments, but I remembered that he just looked totally shocked when he saw Sal with the bellboy. He is a homophobe, but he was willing to protect Sal while Sal was helping him (make a commercial, whatever) but Sal has now put him in the awkward position of having to save this $25 million account and he's annoyed. And we know that when annoyed he says or does hurtful things. So nothing really out of character for him. The one thing I remain surprised by is how quickly he dismissed Sal's story, as if he didn't believe it could be true.

Thanks guys! Nice to know John K hasn't been completely forgotten.

Nice catch with the Joy reference. That's pretty much Don's MO when it comes to these affairs isn't it? "Who are you" and eventually, "You're the only person who knows me".

I agree Joan has already landed on her feet..but it will not end well with Greg. We'll find out he doesn't really want them or something.

I remembered how sympathetic Don was to Freddy Rumsen too, and how he didn't bring up the bellhop situation with Sal ever again. I guess one could argue they're a $25 mill account and there wouldn't be anymore Stirling Coop were it not for their $ and that's why he blew up but HELL, Burt got a far warmer dismissal than Sal because Don seemed so "disgusted". I too think this was out of character.

Welcome back Racy.So glad you are better !

WHOOOOSH! RACY IS BACK!

So glad to see you. Big appology about the JFK thread. I looked and looked, finally found it (about 20% down from the top). Time to put that one back on top.

Racy, we did miss you. Galeforce, glad you're back.

WOW renatae & the last 100 posts. I'm loving Connie Hilton's lines, I think he's as good as Roger. Always a step ahead of Don who can't understand what he's talking about. Don being treated the way he treats all the underlings at SC. Connie's homespun demeanor contrasting with the threatening power he wields.

Did you notice the body language and facial expressions of Don when Connie said he looked upon him as a son? Probably the first time in Don/Dick's life when anyone expressed this kind of affection (except, of course, Adam).

Don disappoints his father (Connie) so he turns to his mother for love (Miss Farrell).

This is my first time here, though I've been watching this show from it's first season. I agree with people who find this season very unsettling. I'm not sure yet whether this is intentional or the result of flagging creativity. I'm betting on the former though, since 1963 was one of the most unsettling years of the century.

My admiration for Don diminishes with each episode this season, this last one really taking the cake! He's certainly gotten into the spirit of his newly signed contract hasn't he, kissing the royal behind of his new client 24/7, jumping every time the great man calls and writing down every hair-brained idea the guy utters like holy writ? But his knee-jerk, corporate reaction to Sal's predicament reveals new, hidden doses of ruthlessness towards a valued coworker as well as downright homophobia ("you people!"). I guess we saw a glimmer of this a few episodes back when he landed into Paggy about a requested promotion. But now, with Don's own growing insecurity, this seems to be blossoming into something truly ugly.

I actually found myself cheering when that blowhard reactionary in the Stetson laid him out for not caring about "Hiltons on the moon!!!"

But then everybody gets it this episode. Betty's stood up by Henry who winds up getting a cash box thrown in his face instead of the expected office rondezvous. The Lucky Strikes man gets blown off by Sal who in turn loses his job. Don disappoints Connie and finds his own job threatened by Roger. And all this against the violence going on in Birmingham. Only Sally's school teacher seems to get what she wants, though it happens in a night time assault reminiscent of Pete's moving in on the neighbor's nanny.

I'm beginning to feel like I'm on a runaway train.

@I love Joan... how is Miss Farrell -- she of the innocent May Day dance, of the "stupid or pure?" comment -- become Don's foul-mouthed, baby-hating prostitute mother (at least in his own imaginings)? I don't see that at all.

giantsfan - you are not alone in thinking Don is one of the less sympathetic characters on the show. I actually think he's a misogynist because of his background with the prostitute as a mother thing.

What did you guys think of the sneak peak for next week's? It looks like Don is getting some kind of humanitarian award and neither Sterling nor Coop want to attend.

@Betty Crocker: So true about megalomaniacs in corporate America.
The empire's downfall, due to greed, corruption, hypocrisy, and megalomaniacs like Hilton and those that served them, like our beloved Don. That is the theme of this series.
The movements to change that dynamic; civil rights for minorities, the womens movement, gay liberation, and the dormant workers movement, seem to not be powerful enough.

WELCOME BACK SWEET RACY!!!

(LOVE YOU DARLINGEST MAD-GAL-PAL!)

-was there: honey, I'm an old school punk-rocker but I think that "Prelude to a Kiss" at the end of epi 9 was sung by Sarah Vaughn. Wasn't it haunting and lovely and perfect!?

-amybett: you are always the sweetest cat! I agree: what on earth (or on the Moon?) was Don thinking when he said "You People." How disparaging and unprofessional. Was he addressing "Creative" or categorizing dear Sal. Unclear, yet I hope for the best answer.

Apropos: seems like Connie needs to be connected w/ some NASA folks! So strange how he was glib and happy, then disappointed w/ Don's Brilliant world-wide Hilton campaign.

-Nick Stephens: WOW: you GOT IT; Nailed it. Purr-fect comparison. Thanx for you BRILLIANT input. I am humbled by your perceptions! Great comparative quote. WOW. Stay here PLEASE! We need your VOX!

-bluegirl and Holly Golightly: I want you Brilliant Architects to find additional work soon. BEST!

-I think that Don totally took Suzanne Farrell off guard. They were both delighted, consequently! I know that many of you dear Maddicts found their rendezvous predictable and disgusting and pathetic. . . I perceived a great sense of joy and renewal as a result of their dalliance. According to the previews, they will be carrying-on for awhile longer! She is new and fresh for him somehow!?

CHEERS!

@Anna Burke
Many a cop drama has portrayed men who had prostitute mothers as serial killers. I think in Don's case, he is acting out by sleeping with women he reads as having loose morals but that go about life under a veil of social and professional acceptance.

@Roszie and @Fancy: I hate to be insistent, but I've been an avid Sarah Vaughan fan since the 1950's and would know her voice anytime, anywhere. Seen her in person several times, have many of her records. That voice was not Sarah's. If I'm wrong, shoot me.

Nick S --more, more, Gatsby! of course!

Wasthere, I didn't think it was Sarah either, but didn't have any other recording that came close. It's not swoopy enough for Sarah. Could it be Carmen McRae?

The way Don handled Sal’s homosexuality is classic Don Draper…he knows he could never approve of Sal’s homosexuality; not only would it be social suicide if anyone found out, but it would also give Sal more insight into him. If you remember, when Don and Sal are flying home after “the incident,” Don uses the London Fog ad to indirectly speak to Sal in regards to what happened, and Sal has failed to “change the conversation.”

He knows Sal wants to engage his homosexual feelings (hotel incident) but wants to be able to do it discreetly (“Because you’re married…who do you think you’re talking to?”). Don uses this to fix the situation. It’s a win/win situation for Don…

Sal either makes Lucky Strike (and himself) happy by being forced to find an outlet with cover for their sexual rendezvous (a happy customer makes for a happy business), or ends up dead because of it (given the neighborhood Sal would need to go to, which wouldn’t be a very safe one, chosen because of the fact he had already been exposed in a classy hotel, and has more of a chance of being found out in a upscale neighborhood). Maybe Sal runs into another co-worker, which would definitely make things very interesting (if he does, I don’t think that co-worker would want anyone to find out either). A dead Sal would let Don and Lucky Strike evade the problem Sal’s sexuality brings (remember, Don and Sal were the only ones who know what transpired in their conversation, as well as on their trip; only Sal and Lucky Strike were in the room when advances were made) which would also make Lucky Strike and Don happy (not having Sal around would make their lives a whole lot easier)…

I don’t know whether it’s the fact that Sal is homosexual that bothers Don or the fact that Sal seemingly can’t figure out a way to not let people put a finger of him, which could possibly hurt the both of them. Only Don knows, which is the way he likes it.

Maybe Don is plotting to have Sal eliminated, either by exposing him somehow (blackmail pictures!) or having him murdered. I mean, he shoots people down...it's what he does best.

Getting tough to take. Two lame episodes in a row. The best shows for the most part are the ones that happen around the office. Last week the office was closed, and this week very little happened there.

Don and Betty and this loon Connie received the most play the last two weeks, and they are totally unsympathetic characters and are becoming for the most part, predictable and boring.

Connie - what a waste of space.
Bettie - at least she was crazy fun in Series 1.
Don - becoming just a whole a-hole. "You people," he says to Sal. Don is in denial and taking it out on Sal. Don had his own homosexual fling, and hates how it made him feel out of step with his shallow conservativism.

Peggy is the most interesting, and I admit my favorite - glad to see she'll be back at it next week. So I guess so will I...

Be seeing you
(The Prisoner, is coming in November).

Nick, you make me worry that Sal will be the next suicide. Horrors. There were no pride parades in '63.

And the Lucky Strike creep called him "Sally"

I am afraid we are heading into soap country. This was not the usual Mad Men.

The only thing I did not like about this episode was how Don and Miss Farrell got together. I was hopping for some more happy accidental run ins to make Don want to get involved with a woman so close to home. I can see a potential "Fatal Attraction" plot coming along in the last few episodes of the season.

I think the writers might wanted Conrad Hilton because we are meant to know about his lineage with his great granddaughter Paris. Because Connie knows that his next of kin will ultimately lead to a Marie Antoinette lifestyle, is why he looks at a self made man like Don as a son more then his biological kin. A complete opposite from the relationship that the guy who wants to start a jai alai league with his father.

believe ' prelude ...' was being sung by billie holiday .

Give me a break. Is there anyone on Earth that didn't think that Don was going to nail the teacher? People here are saying they were disappointed??? Not me, she's hot, she wants him, bang her: The Draper Code.

Don's a slut, he's suppose to be a slut.

Poor Sal. My heart ached for him.
Best line of the night............
"I know what I know."

@anna burke, why would you assume Oh Henry! is Catholic? I think not...Goldwater?

@zabadu: best line EVER so far...Start boiling the bunny water!

@toby: welcome. "you people" indeed.
makes me want to slap Don. So disappointing. I really thought he "got" people.

@nick: agree, Don is more pissed that Sal is letting himself be outed than he is that Sal is actually gay. Did I interpret you correctly?

@moltonasti: "ugly"...so sad, but true. I want him to be superman again.

Who said chink in the armor? Don the superhero is no more.

I don't recall ever being this disgusted with Don in any season of MM thus far.

"He's a bully". Lots of bullying going on.....Lee to Sal, Don to Sal, Betty to Carla.

"You did not give me what I wanted"....there's our entitlement theme again, this time with rich, powerful people instead of Pete.

Too bad Sal's not the one that knows about Don's past....he could have used it to keep his job.

Conrad Hilton DID get the Moon (or close to it) in Kubrick's 1968 flick, "2001: A Space Odyssey." There's a scene in a lounge in the International Space Station's Orbiter Hilton Hotel. There is also a sign promoting the Hover Hilton.

Sugar, even Bobby tried to bully Carla.

And, oh man, if only Sal knew about "Dick"

Don Draper, I'm putting you on notice......shape up or we're going to rescind that Askmen.com award!

Betty: "It's taudry....I'm ending it". Way to take the power back when you get stood up.....and nice reason to stop the affair, because you don't want to slum it in a hotel/car/office. Hmmm.....would think your 3 month old would be a better reason.

@Dennis: we know, Don's a slut. But talk about slumming it....at least his other conquests were worthy of him. "You've never done it this way before". And Don, you're going to wish you hadn't......

Am I the only one that thinks how the character of Sal is being developed all wrong?

First, he is not effeminate yet this is the third guy that has hit on him since I started watching the show. Seems to me that it would be more realistic if he was acting a little squirrelly being that he is gay celibate and all. After all he is a man and his wife is not meeting his needs.

Second, Don's reaction two episodes back when he saw Sal with the bellhop seemed too cool and detached. Don is sophisticated but not that sophisticated. It was the early 60's. How Don reacted in this episode with the "you people" comment seems more aligned with the times.

Third, Sal scene in the park with the leathermen caught me totally by surprise. Not that there was leathermen but that they would congregate in a public place like a park.

So has his firing sent Sal over the edge and he is now acting out in a bad way -or- does the show just want us to think that? Or is he still fighting his feelings and a future episode will have him confess to Kitty. Or will he end up dead like all good homosexuals did in cinema back then.

I can see it now.

Sal is in the bedroom closet sitting in the dark, trying to think of what to say to Kitty. The closet door opens and there stands Kitty...

Kitty: Sal, why are you in the closet?

Sal (tears in his eyes) : I have to something to tell you but I don't know if I can.

Kitty (scared): What is it? You have to tell me. No matter what it is.

(fill in the blank according to your preferred ending)

Lastly, I loved when Betty said to the Maid something to the effect that maybe we should wait on civl rights. Was this a coincidence or done on purpose considering what is going on now with the gays in the military, same sex marriage, etc.?

Just testing to get onto this thread.

Came across this interesting article about MM's usage of Conrad Hilton:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6663142.html

This show didn't win best drama Emmy for nothing. I don't understand all the disappointment. We'll just have to wait and see.
Poor Sal,in this era I don't see him coming back to SC (is it still called SC?) I fear something bad may befall him. Who knows he is very smart he may be one of the first to file a sexual harassment suit against his employers.
Don Draper I seen you sleeping with the teacher the day the children were dancing around the pole as I'm sure everyone else did.I'm telling you there's something wrong with Don.Every time he feels bad he sleeps around. Can someone say low self esteem?

After a wonderful day of football and baseball, how nice to get to MadMen at about 2:30AM.
I am so glad Roger and then Don fired Sal. Nothing against Sal, but we are talking about a 25 million dollar account in 1963. That would be at least 26 million in today's dollars. It would have been totally unrealistic to not fire Sal. Fire Harry too. He is spineless. Maybe Sal could have been saved if Don had been told of Lucky Strike Creeps demands. Or why not be a man about it and talk to Sal and try to find out the root of the problem. Harry is a dope. He could not see the jewel he had in his own dep't in Joan. He lucked into his current position. I would welcome a change of fortune for this bow-tie wearing buffoon.

Hello...I know a lot of you have already expressed what I am going to write but I just want to make sure the MM writers listen to us devoted fans.

WHAT IS GOING ON THIS SEASON?
If they want to win next year's "best Drama" series again they need to save themselves fast. Do not get me wrong, I love this show, but this season has been very disappointing.
Although, something tells me that the next few episodes are going to just EXPLODE. They better..

Also, Sal? What? First Joan then Sal? I really could care less about Pete...fire him!..or Joan's husband..get rid of him soon, please.
I hope Sal's character is explored more.
Don's response to Sal was expected, but the line "you people" was truly harsh.

I actually like Hilton's character because it is the only character that has really stood up to Don's talent as an "ad man." The hamburger ad of the campaign presentation was silly to me.
Don had me until the hamburger...haha
I am glad Hilton made a comment.

Also, Betty's line about civil rights, "...maybe this is not the right time." Another harsh line.
The Betty and Henry thing was just odd for this show. It felt like I was watching a daytime soap opera. Their "relationship" is adding nothing interesting to the show. ENOUGH!

The scene with Don and the teacher was weak. I don't know why the MM writers are opening this door.

ONE positive thing about this season...I am really enjoying Carla's character. Her body language and facial reactions are amazing.

...Maybe Duck will be hiring Joan and Sal!

Ok...That's it. I am very upset about this episode.

In keeping with ehe back to school timing of this episode, how about a preliminary infidelity report card for Don and Betty
Don must get an A for preparation, outlining a plan, and finishing the project.
Betty must of course receive an Incomplete for her course in Government "Affairs"
Also please Mr and Mrs. Draper, by poor sweet little grandfatherless, Sally a FREAKIN pencil case. I'll pay for it.

If only the Lucky Strike creep hit on Peggy in the editing room.............another satisifed client.

They could have smoked a joint first and then she could have said, "I'm Peggy Olsen and just like Lucky Strike, I'm toasted."

And surely they would have done it "no filter".

Ba-da-bum.

I refuse to comment on this week’s episode.

I am very miffed with Don’s behavior.
Really!
Couldn’t that hobo have given you a lesson in not dippin’ yer wick within’ spitten’ distance of yer kin?
Really?!
You’re like a drug addict jonesin’ for some strange.

And going for a run at 4am?
What if Dr. Harris or Pete Cambell were lurking in those woods?

And you know Don didn’t show up with a Trojan.
I hope she gets knocked up and hires Marvin Mitchellson to move her into Trump Tower.

And, “you people”?!
Don! Not classy.
Poor Sal, I thought he going to hang himself over that drafting table.

Don’t get me started on Betty!
Whell!

I won’t say another word.

eesh!

Kudos to the one foretelling the "Career Girl Murders" and the march on Washington to be mentioned in the show. The 16th Street Baptist Church bombing is also mentioned. Tonight's episode seems to end on Monday, 16 September 1963.

Hi everyone!

Well, first my Red Sox are gone for the season, then last nights episode of MM!

I was glad that Matt W. at least covered the major historic events going on through radio news. However, it was difficult at times to hear.
1. MLKs historic speech in DC on the car radio while Don was picking up the teacher
2. The news about the 2 young girls in NYC found murdered on the car radio, same scene
3. The horrific news of the Birmingham bombing and the 4 young girls dying, Carla listening in the Drapers kitchen.

This last scene really disturbed me. It showed just how out of touch Princess Betty is with the world around her.
She is so out of touch, she tells Carla that maybe it's not the right time for The Civil Rights movement!!

I tried so hard to understand where she is coming from, given the period of the early 60s, and I can't get my head around it.
To me, she is more shallow, self centered, and has been too protected from the realities of life.
And she still refers to Carla as her "girl".

Carla knows something is up with Betty and Henry.

That whole Betty/Henry thing is going no where, and I'm pretty disgusted with this storyline!

The episode should have been called "Nut case clients"!
Does anyone know if Conrad Hilton was really that crazy? Oh, excuse me...if you are rich it's called eccentric!

And that slime ball from Lucky Strikes!!
Sal acts like a professional, and this sleazoid gets him fired because he would have sex with him?!

The scenes of Sal after he was double fired Roger and Don broke my heart!
How could Don pull "a Pete" and suggest to Sal that if he gave the LS dude what he wanted, he wouldn't be fired, and SC wouldn't risk losing the contract? Don to Sal "YOU PEOPLE"?!
Don had me fooled, but, he is just another homophobe.
The scene of Sal calling Kitty to say he was working late (after being fired) killed me.

Don and that teacher? WHAT? is it because she doesn't teach Sally this year, so that makes it OK?
She is weird city....on a lighter note, maybe the teacher will buy poor Sally a 3 ring binder pencil case!!

Another episode with no Joan.
I am not happy with the way things are going...
I don't see the magic of MM from the first 2 Seasons.

@DeepDis & @Renatae- Don said the same thing to the girl grifter a few weeks ago before he got knocked unconscious in the motel too!

@thewaymouth- "Don had his own homosexual fling"
Maybe it's because I'm up too early, but I don't remember this at all...explain please.

@HollyGoLightly- Also it's not Peggy's Time, Not Joan's Time, and now not Carla's Time either! :(

@Hobo- Don made the moves for sure this time...when else has he made all the moves, With Rachael? Usually they just fall into his lap without him even trying....

Seems as if the Connie character is being written to be like Frederick March who played the "Boss and Father Figure" to Gregory Peck in the movie version of "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit". Everything on MM happens for a reason, so even though it seems like these crazy Connie scenes could easily have been left out, I'm pretty sure they will turn out to be significant...

And how about the opening scene when Betty wakes up from her dream and the baby is crying - do they keep it in a soundproof room? That has to be the QUIETEST crying baby I have EVER heard. Even if they kept it in the BASEMENT it would have made more noise than that!

Good morning 60'sChild! I also thought Betty's remark about the "time not being right" for Civil Rights was a little odd from someone born and raised in Philadelphia (I can tell you that was not what my mother thought at the time). However, it would be appropriate if Betty were from, say Baltimore, where Matt grew up...

@racy - glad to see you back and hope you are feeling MUCH better!
@amybett-Jabba the Couch!! LOL
@hobocode - love your parody of Wee Small Hours! This is how the sleepless spend their nights!
@was there - I think Sal told Kitty he would be late because he is avoiding having to say something about the loss of his job. He probably doesn't know how he's going to deal with it. He can't tell her the truth - so what will he say is the reason? I do wonder about what those guys were doing in the background - whether they're meaningful in some way or just hanging out because it's their "turf."

Hi G! I thought Don's "You People" comment was a little bizarre too. My only guess whould be that Don was thinking "You'll do it with a bellhop for free, but not with a client that can shut our lights off?". He really doesn't understand "Those People" at all, does he? But will he eventually?

Suzanne conveys a childlike innocence (even if she's not so innocent) that some men would find appealing - especially in 1963. I think that is the root of Don's attraction to her (Are you dumb or pure?).

Suzanne may be something else entirely under the surface, so Don better watch out!

I watched "Desperate Housewifes" at 9pm last night, and later I was thinking this episode of MM could have been called "Desperate Husbands" (Don and Sal...and Henry?). This show definitely has soap opera tendencies when they are not in the office.

I also meant to post that Don's running to Suzanne was a direct reaction to his "rejection" by Connie. I've heard that affairs are sometimes a way of acting out when you feel a loss of control in other aspects of your life.

What's with Connie anyway? Is he a total loon, or did Don really miss what Connie was asking for?

Was that Ella Fitzgerald singing during the closing credits?

Back in the Rothko episode, Sal asked Jane in the elevator "Who are you?"

I guess Don and/or the SC boys/girl won't be in Dallas on Nov. 22nd after all.

I guess it'd be very interesting if Sal broke down and told Kitty he was fired because he wouldn't put out for a male client. What would be her response having seen his version of the Patio commercial?

@IloveJoan-very funny bout Peggy-satisfied customer!
I think somebody already commented, but I don't believe the 'you people' was used back then at all, not for gays, at least. The ball is in Carla's court now and Betty knows it. Roger seemed very out of character this ep. The whole show was off. Don chasing that teacher around the streets, Betty chasing Henry only to not put out, what a joke. Even if Sal was obviously gay to Lucky, I don't believe he would grab him like that, same as bellboy. Too abrasive. Everything was much more closeted and discrete back then. That teacher jogging at night seemed out of place, too.

How would Connie like this;

The scene is an Astronaut in the Cockpit of his Apollo Space craft ,it is night time and he is looking at the Moon. You here the countdown from 10,9,8......Lift off , Apollo # destination Hilton Hotel. What do you think?

I think Sal is going to go out and get his job back.He is going to put out to save the Lucky Strike account.

gawd the school teacher blechhhhhhhhh

I wanted to throw my pillow at the tv screen

and in the scene where don puts his arm around her ... that was such a typical don draper move that it seemed like a Saturday Night Live skit

I am really disappointed :>(

I wonder if the affair with the teacher is real. I mean I know the teacher is real. But I wonder if the sexually charge flirting at the eclipse, and the seeing her running in the middle of the night (did young women go jogging in 1963 anyway?) and the whole "whore" part of the "madonna/whore thing" the teacher has got going on is even real or just his imagination. Was the affair with Joy real? Hell, was the affair with Rachel Mencken even real? I sometimes think he meets these women and has affairs with them in his mind. I think he's mentally ill, maybe from the war or maybe from an abusive childhood. I certainly think he has a rich inner life anyway !! My mother always said we live 95% of our lives inside our own heads.

This was a brilliant episode starting to tie everything together. Last episode, Pete Campbell is with the au pair who's several doors away and gets busted. This episode, Don is with the school teacher who's several miles away.

We open with Betty's dream, see her prevent it from actually happening because the moment's not right and feels tawdry, and we see it end with Don's burgeoning affair with Miss Farrell.

Don gives us the "you people" to Sal, which is, unfortunately, probably what the common thought of the 1960's would be. In his final scene with Miss Farrell, both of them are kind of calling each other "you people." She knows the way it ends; he treats her like someone who has had numerous affairs.

Last season, Don beat Duck because he didn't have a contract. This season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Roger beat Don because Don now has a contract and Roger thinks that Don's "in over his head."

Don's own father was verbally abusive and a loser. Don changes his identity. Now, he has a father-figure in Connie who may become more verbally abusive. Where's Don supposed to go, caught between his own father, whom he's trying to run away from and Conrad Hilton who's calling at all hours of the night. Oh, yeah, he ran into the arms of Miss Farrell.

What's going to happen when Conrad Hilton calls, Don's with Miss Farrell, and Betty informs him that Don told her that he was with him? In this episode, Sal fends off Lee's advances and gets fired in the process. This could foreshadow Conrad Hilton, who's religious and conservative, getting angry because of Don's philandering and demands that Don gets fired.

@HollyGolightly - really, you don't care about Pete and you want him to be fired? I get why people don't like Pete (IMO as with all the other characters he has good and bad qualities), but I'm always surprised when people want him specifically off the show. He's such a great character. Honestly, it would become at least 25-50% less interesting if he weren't on it. At the very least, I would think he's a character you love to hate. I seem to frequently fall into the Pete defender camp, but I really find it difficult to believe that anybody would rather watch Sally Draper or even a Harry storyline over one that involved Pete.

Again, I realize I'm expressing an unpopular opinion, but I'm just not that into Don and Betty's home life or their affairs/near affairs. It's completely predictable. Is there really no woman who can resist Don's "charms," such as they are (and frankly, he wasn't very charming in his last scene with Suzanne)? Can Betty ever have some character development beyond being mopey and depressed and high maintenance? I don't hate her, but she's been supremely overused this season. Maybe Matt Weiner is desperately trying to get the actress who plays her an Emmy/Golden Globe nod. As for me, I'd like more office please and more stories with office-client interactions. As heartbreaking as this episode was for the Sal plot, at least it had that. Otherwise, it's no different than one of the episodes last season where Betty flirts with but resists Arthur's advances and Don sleeps with Bobbie. I still really like this show, but this season is definitely inferior to the last two and the primary reason why is the imbalance between the Draper home life and the time spent at the office. I also think it's the first season where I can think of several specific episodes or chunks of episodes that were so generally unmemorable that I won't want to rewatch them at all.

This was a brilliant episode starting to tie everything together. Last episode, Pete Campbell is with the au pair who's several doors away and gets busted. This episode, Don is with the school teacher who's several miles away.

We open with Betty's dream, see her prevent it from actually happening because the moment's not right and feels tawdry, and we see it end with Don's burgeoning affair with Miss Farrell.

Don gives us the "you people" to Sal, which is, unfortunately, probably what the common thought of the 1960's would be. In his final scene with Miss Farrell, both of them are kind of calling each other "you people." She knows the way it ends; he treats her like someone who has had numerous affairs.

Last season, Don beat Duck because he didn't have a contract. This season, it wouldn't surprise me to see Roger beat Don because Don now has a contract and Roger thinks that Don's "in over his head."

Don's own father was verbally abusive and a loser. Don changes his identity. Now, he has a father-figure in Connie who may become more verbally abusive. Where's Don supposed to go, caught between his own father, whom he's trying to run away from and Conrad Hilton who's calling at all hours of the night. Oh, yeah, he ran into the arms of Miss Farrell.

What's going to happen when Conrad Hilton calls, Don's with Miss Farrell, and Betty informs him that Don told her that he was with him? In this episode, Sal fends off Lee's advances and gets fired in the process. This could foreshadow Conrad Hilton, who's religious and conservative, getting angry because of Don's philandering and demands that Don gets fired.

I think that was Ella Fitzgerald singing "Prelude," but not sure. @was there - I'm also a Sarah Vaughn fan and her voice is SO distinctive. I listened to some clips on iTunes, and the closest I could come to the voice was Ella Fitzgerald, but not as I remember ever hearing her before. Listened to Carmen McRae - too deep and throaty sounding to me.

@giantsfan - I so agree with you about Don. He's always throwing about this air of compassion, discretion, and good judgment, but whenever what he finds important is threatened in any way, it doesn't seem to matter who the offender is, that person gets the back of his hand and a tongue-lashing. And I always fall for his integrity ruse, no matter how many times I get burned. Good thing for me I don't know a Don in real life!

@ hobocode, I thing Betts was reaching out to Sally with her "I bet you're tired" comment, and was miffed that Sally just demanded a pencil case. I think she was hoping for some real conversation, but as always, whenever she misses the mark, she takes it out on poor Sally. She really is clueless.

again, a fascinating series of comments and posts. i'd like to add my two cents regarding sal. while sal is not "effeminete" as one poster noted, other gay men are able to recognize what he is trying to hide from himself. see "gaydar" which is the same concept as when two straight people see and recogonzie in each other a bit of interest. i think that especially in the closet of the 60's, a gay man had to use discretion and "limit his exposure". the whole public park scene was/is a place where men like sal can (finally) have sex. sadly, there is an element of danger there- many men were arrested, or beaten up. in this episode sal was outed, and i think he feels a desperate need- there are limited options for a man like sal at this time. infact there are limited options for almost everyone at this time, as we are seeing....

first let me say............
the bloggers on this site are some of the most insightful people I have heard. It is so enjoyable to read your posts
That being said
I LOVE DON He is the bad boy we all wanted but knew we shouldn't go near. I grew up in this era and am amazed how "right" they get it. I'm not surprised that Don wanted Sal to do it for the Gipper
Don would. Poor Sal. He is the guy every girl wants for a best friend

I absolutely enjoyed Pete coughing his brains out after the Lucky Strike! There is something so endearing about him, when he's not pillaging.

The only thing I liked about this episode was Betty not starting an affair with Henry. Everything else was very disappointing. I don't like where this is all leading. Poor Sal, but it got me thinking that maybe he will start his own company, hire Joan, then Don will be fired and go in with Sal for partnership.

Miss Farrell is bad news no matter how you look at it. Betty's going to find out and as I wrote on Greg's thread last night, it's going to be soon and I think Miss Farrell will be the one who tells her. I hope the last four episodes will tell us where this whole season has been going

I'm so confused about Betty, I don't even know if I like her or hate her.

I haven't read all the posts yet, so forgive me if this repeats.

Conrad Hilton epitomizes the "client from hell". I cringe just watching him.

The question is, is Don's reaction to Sal about homosexuality, or is it about Don. When Don takes up with Bobbie Barret he does it partly for power and control in a situation where the Barrets are essential to pleasing a client. Maybe in Don's mind Sal screwed up when he refused to "service the account". Don sees this as part of retaining an account and he is disappointed in Sal not "taking one for the team". Either way, Don is becoming less and less attractive as the season wears on.

There is very little to like about most of these characters, but perhaps the worst was Betty's shallow reaction to the radio broadcast of the funeral for the girls in Birmingham. First, Betty is kind and understanding, offering Carla a day off. Then, she ruins the whole effect by saying "maybe its not time for Civil Rights now". That line sort of epitomizes Betty. I

I also found Betty's complete lack of political acumen during the fake fundraiser very telling. There are women around Betty that could help her expand her horizons and clearly she has no interest in that so she condemns herself to her small enclosed world. Betty is her own worst enemy.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions about the singer doing Ellington's "Prelude to a Kiss" at the end. But we don't have a winner yet!

So far I have eliminated Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday and Carmen McRae. (I'm still not positive about Carmen because I don't have her version, but I'll take your word for it, Renatae.)

Anyone else?

Tapbabie-- you are insightful too! You're so right about Don doing what he has to for business. Think of that tryst in the car with Bobbi during the hailstorm. He told her later that he doesn't feel a thing. How awful!

Is anyone else annoyed that half of the posts on this topic, being episode 9-take place BEFORE the episode aired? I want relevant talk related to the episode. I cannot have the patience to read all these IRRELEVANT posts....

Can we please make a 'pre-episode' thread, then a 'post-episode' thread??

The set up of this forum is incredibly annoying as well, but com'mon people! seriously....

Deborah Harry covered "Prelude to a Kiss" in the 1990's during a period of experimenting with jazz. Any chance it might be her? I'd have to hear it again... have no idea... just a guess.

@hobocode - if you have iTunes, you can listen to clips for free, and an Ella Fitzgerald version is on there. It sounds so much like the same delivery, emphasis, timing, range, etc - if you can, take a listen and let me know what you think. I can't remember ever hearing Ella sing like this. It seems like it must be an old recording for that reason.

This episode was the "Im paying you, and you will do what I want" Roger said it best, "most of the time it comes down to , I just dont like the guy!" Sal's sexual preferences were no big deal until it turned financial. Back to the golden rule, whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

Sorry Bipolarbear-- didn't mean to echo your point. Guess we typed at the same time!

I think we've always known those unpleasant things about Don, but we've been in denial about some of them, choosing to make him our romantic hero in many ways. He is, at best, a tragic figure, and he will probably come to a sticky end.

After a couple of years of reading these, I finally decided to sign up.

I have to start that I loved Pete hacking during the entire commercial shoot.

Yep, you can’t get anything past Carla, like she told Betty once, “I’ve been married a long time.” You saw that look on her face when she walked in-she knew exactly what she interrupted, just like she knew exactly how Sally “found” the five dollars, and I’ll bet she knows about Don running around.

Speaking of his running around, I’m not at all surprised about Don getting together with the teacher. I think we all saw that coming. Don’s criteria for who he sleeps with seems to be any woman that isn’t Betty.

Sal’s situation was classic sexual harassment. “You didn’t sleep with me, so you don’t get the job.” I was a little surprised that Don basically expected him to do it, with the justification that their account could turn off the lights. What shocked me is Roger firing Sal. He was totally arbitrary-he had no knowledge of the background, just “you’re fired.” I wasn’t too surprised that Don fired him. In 1963, he could have fired Sal simply for being gay, and in everyone’s mind, it would have been Sal’s fault-which is basically what Don did here.

I don’t know what Sal will do, but this show has proven that there are no throwaway scenes. Him, Peggy, maybe Midge, and let’s not forget the hippie people in California (where his talk with the real Mrs. Draper obviously had no effect). At some point, I think they’ll come back into the picture.

And speaking of Don, he is awfully irritable lately. He throws a temper tantrum about signing a contract, he flips out on Peggy three times, he is totally unsympathetic to Sal, etc… What is his problem?

I like how MW is showing people living their ordinary day-to-day lives in the midst of the turmoil of 1963, which, as we know, was child’s play compared to the freight train that’s about to hit (several freight trains, actually).

We’ve got the Career Girl Murders on the radio when Don picked up the teacher, then MLK speech, then the church bombing, we're getting a front-row seat to the 1960s.

It’s going to be quite a ride, if the series goes that long. I just hope the show gets more realistic and less soapy. And, by the way, is it too much to ask to have one person who isn’t cheating on their spouse?

Wow, that’s a lot. Sorry about that, but I had a lot on my mind.

I could barely breathe while watching this episode- it was very good. And I thought Don's behavior was completely appropriate.
The theme of this episode was rejection and control.
The teacher rejects Don, Hilton rejects Don, Sal rejects creepy Lucky Strikes guy, Henry rejects Betty by not showing up therefor Betty rejects him in the end, Don rejects the work and ideas of creative and overall is trying to regain CONTROL of his universe again.
Every player lastnight was playing for control.
Don was simply disgusted with Sal for not fucking a client!
He doesn't care if Sal is gay! He cares if clients are happy- that was his point!
"You people" to Sal meant "You people know you want it and yet you pretend your straight. When I know that you know that I KNOW you are gay! I saw you , Sal! Give me a break!"
The poster above is right, how many clients has Don screwed?
Remember Bobby saying Don's reputation is legendary?
I think Don was fed up with amatures.
The mess was put in his lap by Roger (another play for supreme control and power) and Don is cranky, and sleep deprived, and had no patience.
So that is my interpretation of that scene.

Brilliant writing lastnight and very complex.

Lastly, Don has never worked so hard at a seduction- he was not going to take no for an answer. He was done with rejection and loss of control.
He worked hard to win that tryst and it was all about EGO.
Don needed to win something and going to her apt. was his desperate attempt at feeling like he was a winner and in control.
I was rooting for her- I wanted her to prevail and kick him out!
My complaint about last night is that she took him to her bed. It would have been a more interesting choice to have him completely degraded and hit rock bottom.

The singer was also not Billie Holiday, Carmen MacRae or Ella Fitzgerald, all also among my favorites. Again, I think it is a more current singer.

Sal is Amish?

Don and Betty are crybabies and they make me sick. They have the world and its not good enough for them. They will get whats coming to them soon enough, hopefully. It was nice to see Don put in his place by Hilton and Roger. Love the look Peggy gave Don.

Couldn't Sal, once fired, find a way to out that creepy tobacco man? I am guessing his harshness comes from fear of being outed but I wish it would come back and bite his tobacco a-s. Maybe Sal will go home and make a baby for survival's sake.

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but Betty sure has the screwiest ideas about civil rights! Does she really think Carla's grieving for the four little girls who were killed in the Birmingham church could be forgotten by a day off? When she corrected Bobby for speaking sharply to Carla, she said "Carla works for me, not you." What she doesn't realize is that NO ONE should be talked to that way. All she can see is the power hierarchy. She might as well have said "Carla's my house slave, not yours".

And that line about "maybe civil rights isn't supposed to happen now" is what many folks say about the gay/lesbian struggle today.

A question removed from that subject-- I'm curious about how Betty manages to feed that baby without warming his bottle. And isn't he too old to be swaddled that way? I figure he must be 3 months old?

Polar Bear,
Thank God for you!! You always make me crack up!
Yes, I have read that he is not only Italian and Gay, but Amish as well.
Of course, I read that in the "Midnight Globe Enquirer" thing.
And, Sal was abducted by aliens in case you are wondering. I don't know if probes were involved during the abduction...

Bye, Bye, Sallie!

Who'da thunk Ann Margaret would foreshadow Mr. Romano's departure? Who has a better chance of returning - Lois the groundskeeper or virtuous Sal (he defended his honor)? We better hope Sal's father is invited to Connie Corleone's wedding.

Ever notice a popular show starts to lose its punch just about the time it starts getting rid of characters?

First Joan. Now Sal. Who will it be next week? By the end of the season?

I agree with other posters that this show is becoming just another soap opera. It's original appeal, advertising in the 60s is almost completely written out of it. We get a client presentation about twice every 2 or 3 episodes.

I have gone from feeling sorry for some characters (Betty, Don) to plain not liking them. I won't stick around to watch an entire show of nothing but characters I "love to hate". No thanks.

I agree, it's become pretty tough to root for anyone. How about Carla, Kitty, Trudy, Joan, Sally and Bobby-- in other words, anyone not working in advertising? I'm on the fence with Suzanne. I loved that she talked tough with Don, very much like Rachel did. Yet, what did it matter when she gave in anyway?

I see nobody wanted to explain the "salami in your mouth" comment made in the editing room. :P

Just a minor point.

Am I crazy or did the teacher look like a different actress this week. Her eyes seemed bigger, (maybe it was just the fact that she was wearing heavier eye makeup), her voice deeper, and her hair down was styled differently.

When she first got in the car with her hair up I wasn't sure it was her at all.

Anyone else do a double-take?

@carred'hermes-Not a bad idea. Good thought to keep Sal alive. You're insight sounds very plausible.

Scotch and Soda, I noticed that look that Peggy gave Don, too. That's the second time she's done that. I think Peggy is less and less enraptured with Don and his legendary "magic".
The real jaw-dropping moment to me was when Don was clearly annoyed with Sal for NOT servicing the Lucky Strikes guy. It's like he was ticked off that Sal doesn't "get" that everyone at SC is supposed to be a man-whore. Gay or straight, doesn't matter, just keep the client happy. ??!!!!
And please raise your hand, ANYONE who didn't know that Don was going to bed Miss Crazy Drunk-Dialing Teacher. .... Anyone? ... Anyone? ... Bueller? That was the most boring and predictable part of what is rapidly becoming a boring and predictable soap opera.
I loved "The Sopranos," but as time went by, characters were steadily eliminated from the show. By the time it ended, almost no one was left but Tony. It was creepy and it became increasingly hard to watch. Is MW going to do the same thing with "Mad Men"? Because it's a cheap, skeezy way to keep a show interesting. What happened to the magic of Season One? Why is EVERY episode about BETTY.... her neuroses and her shallowness.... and Don's philandering? I thought this was going to be a brilliant, darkly nostalgic show about THE ADVERTISING BUSINESS. Where did that go?

Gotham Goddess - I completely agree with your comments about Rejection and Control...and a lack of understanding of the consequences. Henry rejected going to the fundraiser but didn't think Betty would dump him for it. Sal didn't think he would get fired for rejecting Mr. Lucky Jr. Don rejected Connie's inferance that he wanted the moon as part of the campaign...then Connie rejecting him. Hilton and Lucky Strike asserted their control, Roger did and then ultimately Don had to go out and make a conquest (schoolteacher). Notice how peacefully asleep he was! The teacher is nutty (and ahead of her time) and hope she stays around for a good part of the 60's

@fifty-two: Well, from an advertising perspective, minus any symbolism that may or may not exist, "salami in your mouth", "marbles in your mouth", are common expressions about a lack of enunciation, proper phrasing, punching of certain words, etc. in a voice-over. That's how I read it. Yet, I have been on both sides of that booth, both as talent and as producer, so, for me, it really was just what it was.

Sal: obviously he did not know he was gay. With the bell hop he was totally caught off guard and was amazed at how he felt being "felt up" then to be hit on by Lucky Strike (I kept waiting for him to tell Don he was "hit on" but that would have been inappropriate). I took his rage, throwing the cans to be,"Why is this happening to me?". Back in 1963 when you didn't have a job the only was to call home was a phone booth. The characters behind the booth didn't look gay to me, just ominous. So are you born gay or do you become gay? I think what the writers did with Sal's situation is brilliant, makes you wonder at the whole issue and question. I totally agree in 1963 we NEVER talked about it. I remember a documentary or something about homosexuals (not called gay back then) and I thought what was wrong with being friends with your own sex, but then my mother told me that they had sex together and I thought, "how?" btw, I was about 11.

And Betts remark "Maybe now is not the time for Civil Rights" maybe the writers were cleverly talking about the current issue of health care. Too much upheavel, too much devisiveness... not a good time.

That what is so intriguing about the show. Do they get 1963 right? Do they try to shock us with how it was and then compare it with present day issues?

Did you notice that Betty and Don switched sides of the bed? Don is now on the side of the bed with the phone.

Probably because of the late night phone calls from Connie, but also a set up to allow Don to (maybe) get away with his "Connie called" scam before he went to see the nice teacher.

When Sal was trying to reason with Don, Sal asked "What if it was a secretary?"

Don responded "It depends on who she was and what I knew about her."

It may be a clue that Don knows something about someone's past life... I'm betting Joan.

I don't know if anyone else observed this detail but I felt the need to remark upon it. When Don is driving to work, he encounters Sally's teacher, Suzanne, who is jogging. She is wearing a Bowdoin sweatshirt. Unless Suzanne had a bother or ex-boyfriend who attended there, she did not graduate from that college. Women were not permitted to matriculate at Bowdoin until 1971 (http://www.bowdoin.edu/about/history/history-of-the-college.shtml). The series is currently set in the late summer of 1963.

Question 1: Is it altogether SO unbelievable that a man would come to a woman’s door in the afternoon, stop in for 3 minutes and leave, without it being a source of scurrilous gossip? Why does everyone here assume that Carla KNEW this was a potential love interest of Betty’s? I remember salesmen coming to our door in the 1960s and my mother inviting a couple in for demonstrations or what not, without being suspected of hanky-panky.

Question #2: Viewers, what do you think the Hilton family thinks of Weiner’s depiction of Conrad Hilton, especially when he does the narrative about his real sons being a disappointment to him. I can’t help but think what a huge disappointment Paris Hilton would be to him. Do you think the Hilton family had to approve of any storyline or scripted line?

Question #3: Who was Sal calling from the pay phone? Kitty? I couldn’t hear the conversation. What was he saying?

Have to agree with several posters, bipolar, giants fan that I am quickly tiring of this show becoming a one dimensional soap opera.

Enough with the Betty arcs. She is dull. There are so many other more intersting characters they could be exploring.

Bring back the business of the business... let's see more new clients that aren't Hilton. More Joan, Roger, Pete, Trudy, Ken, Layne, PPL interaction

Let's let Don and Betty go off into the sunset for a while with their affairs.

Highlights from last night: Sal!! I think he will do something to get Lee Gardner back on his side. Hilton wanting the moon. Don looking very little boyish when reacting to Connie telling him he was better than a son.

@hobocode: Harry is the perfect buffoon that will likely "fail upward".

One thing I thought during one of the "wee hours" phone calls to Don from Hilton was: why is Don putting up with all this? From signing the contract to putting up with Hilton, Don simply doesn't have to. He is independently wealthy. Clearly he doesn't need this job, so why such dedication? Is this Don trying to prove to himself he can succeed in a world completely foreign to his upbringing?

@I love Joan- I noticed the switching side of the bed as well. He slept on the other side of the bed in Rome and is now on the other side at home. I took this as a reference to "the tables have turned" or "the opposite side of the bed" meaning things are not as they used to be. Which things definitely are not like they used to be for Don. His whole life is being turned upside down and he can't seem to determine which way is up!

Hope I'm not being redundant here (or imaging this) ...but did anyone else pick up on Don not only saying "you people" to Sal, but also something along the lines of "isn't that what people like you do?" to the teacher just before he moved in on her? Talk about attitude. Perhaps it's time he got taken down a peg or two.

Where are the Brits in all this upheaval? They were so hands-on. Sure they'd be shocked about Sal's gayness but don't they have a say about who gets fired? I thought they were starting to squeeze Roger out when he wasn't included in the company re-organization chart ("an oversight").

@Lauri B:

1)Betty looked guilty.
2) Betty asked Carla to see him out with the excuse: "I think I left the bath running." This while the kids were at school and the laundry basket was at the bottom of the stairs. Betty is a bad liar.

As for Paris Hilton being a disappointment to Conrad by thought was: I see where she gets it.

See Christina Hendrick's and Geoffrey Arend's wedding photos at:

http://www.celebritybrideguide.com/christina-hendricks-gets-married/

A FEW INTERESTING POINTS:

The "you people" comment...Betty said the same thing to Jimmy Barrett last season when he spilled the beans about Don and the Red Headed Cougar.

Sal....funny this episode aired on "National Coming Out Day"....is it a coincidence??

Go Betty, its your birthday....way to put that idiot Henry in his place...I like her style..."oh no you di'nt stand me up...take that biotch"

The comment Betts made to Carla "maybe it's not the time for civil rights"...she was remembering the dream she had when she was giving birth..her mother standing there behind Medgar Evers "See what happens when you speak up?"...Betts doesn't realize that there is never a 'right' time for social upheaval. I don't think this was her being okay with the status quo as much as having sympathy for those that perished..she is questioning if it's worth it to stand up if there will be bloodshed and innocents slaughtered.

And yes, everyone saw the drunk-dialing hippie-esque teacher affair coming. I don't like what I saw in the previews, Don saying to her "I don't want this to end' or something...a$$monkey..same ol' dookie he was sayin to Rachel in Season 1. Eff Don, I hope Betty files for divorce in the finale. Stupid..he is like "oh you had a bad childhood too, let me pretend I don't have a wife and kids...I will confide in you, oh whore, instead of my wife."

The question is: If Don did come clean with Betty (about his life pre-Don Draper), would she shun him, or feel empathy and forgive. Lies are like poison.....

Any ideas for ad campaigns that are going to put Hilton on the moon?

pted936 -
Sorry, but I can't believe Sal doesn't know he's gay. He knows. What Don doesn't understand is that just because you're gay, that doesn't mean you never met a c**k you didn't want. Just as in the hetero world, most people want to have sex with the people they want to have sex with, not just anyone. Imagine if the wife of the guy who had the Utz account wanted Don's body or lose the account.

I think the real reason was because Don thought Sal didn't/couldn't properly "manage the client's expectations." Of course, they same thing is now happening to him with Connie.

Sorry everybody, but I've GOT to ask.
@ Ilovejoan: thanks for the CH wedding link. They said "on her hands and feet she wore henna" What does that even mean? Was our Joanie barefoot at her wedding? (she is beautiful. I hope she comes back)

So is that the end of Sal? Please tell me it isn't so, for his personal evolution (from running down the fire escape with his pants around his ankles, to his seductive pajama dance in front of Kitty) is one of the best and least predictable elements of the show. He was in such a bind: he can't give in to his impulses (and maybe thinks the guy is repulsive, anyway), yet when he's "good" and resists, he catches hell from Don, who seems to be saying, well, you should've just gone ahead and fucked him for the good of the account. Who knows how much of this went on, especially with women. I didn't get the reference at the end where he's calling Kitty from a phone booth. But since everyone and his dog seems to know Sal is gay (except maybe Sal), he'd do OK in the park. But isn't this extreme for a gay virgin who barely knows how it's done?

Anyway, guys, don't write him out of the series. I'd like to see him have a secret relationship with a younger man (spoiled, rich, arrogant) in which he has his heart broken. Didn't Nicky Hilton have a twin brother?

This entire season has been so disjointed. There is NO flow whatsoever. In previous seasons the writers would give you crumbs, and reveal things here and there, but the show still flowed. Its gaps and holes in everything, people disappearing for episodes at a time. And now I feel like I'm watching a soap opera. I love this show. I'm sure this season is done, but I hope they revamp for the 4th season. REMEMBER: IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!

P.S. - I'm all for growth and trying different things, but it has to make sense.

Conspiracy theory -- Perhaps someone else has posted this idea, but I do not remember seeing it – so here goes my “Conspiracy Theory.”

Didn’t Don meet Connie at Roger’s party? Is there a chance that Connie and Roger are working together to bring Don to his demise?

Connie insists that SC won’t get his business unless Don signs a three-year-contract. Once Don signs it, he becomes Connie’s “slave”. Don must accept calls from Connie 24 hours a day. He must travel for Connie at a moment’s notice and be at Connie’s beck and call. This hectic schedule is taking a toll on Don.

Lack of sleep and constant tension wears a person’s tolerance down to the point the person can make snap decisions and lash out at those around him. I see Don doing this. Some of you think Don’s behavior is uncharacteristic. I view this as a normal reaction to stress. Don certainly is under stress.

His ad campaigns have always been great. He has been able to tame the fiercest of prospective clients. He has been the Teflon boy.

Now he is dealing with Connie who does not seem to be agreeable to anything. No matter how hard Don tries, he fails with Connie. Roger must be gloating about this.

Are Roger and Connie close enough friends to be working this in tandem?

This sums up my conspiracy theory. What are your views?

@Scotty: interesting points all, but especially:

"What's going to happen when Conrad Hilton calls, Don's with Miss Farrell, and Betty informs him that Don told her that he was with him? In this episode, Sal fends off Lee's advances and gets fired in the process. This could foreshadow Conrad Hilton, who's religious and conservative, getting angry because of Don's philandering and demands that Don gets fired."

1) Given Betty's handling of Roger's phone call regarding the contract, I doubt she would tell Conrad "I thought he was with you", however, hard to imagine what excuse she might come up with half asleep. I certainly can't think of a believable one. "He's at the office." won't work 'cause Connie would just call the office to find Don not there. "He's staying at the (club/apt/hotel/etc.) in the city 'cause he worked so late." wouldn't work since a phone number where Connie could reach Don would presumably follow that excuse. Connie calling in the middle of the night with Don not home would be sticky indeed!

2) Connie demanding Don get fired. I've wondered from the start if Don even READ the contract. Wasn't it typical in those days to have some kind of "decency" clause in a contract? i.e., Being caught in indecent behavior could be grounds for dismissal? The other side is, how easy is it to fire Don now that he does have a contract? Roger's line at the end about Don being in over his head seemed a little out of place since Don is now under contract.

We don't know what the contract says. Chances are, the contract, like many characters/story lines will simply be dropped and may never return.

Pretty sure that "Prelude to a Kiss" is the divine Sarah Vaughan, a recording from the mid-50's, long before her voice dropped a few stories.

I suspect that the (temporary?) departure of Joan and Sal are a real-life move by Weiner to gain leverage on these actors, and to set an exanple for the others, in advance of contract negotiations.

In other words, "Don't even try to hold me hostage for huge salary increases, because I can very easily just write you out of the show."

Be careful MW. You only have two million viewers. No Joan, no me.

I'm afraid Sal is going to commit suicide. His life is in a total shambles, and and I doubt he thinks that a romp in the park is going to help anything. When he turned to leave the pay phone booth, I thought he looked sweaty and apprehensive. Just my take on it!

@GothamGoddess good post after reading it I was struck with the realization that Don and Henry don't go by the same code. Don went to Ms. Farrell's house to get what he wanted, Mr Francis would not. Personally I think if you are going to commit adultery, holding back on the grounds of location is quite hypocritical, ridiculous really.I know there was no territorial male at Ms Farrells, but that was not Henry's stated point.

@Mad for Men - I got the impression that Roger didn't even know who Connie was at his own party. There was another party going on at the country club at the same time and Connie wasn't a guest at Roger's. Eccentric loner Connie hanging out at the bar. Later when Don lands the Hilton account and they're pressuring him to sign the contract, Roger obviously had never met Connie, Bert said he had met him once but Roger shrugged. Connie is somewhat vulnerable to Don, he beckons him in the middle of the night to come see him because he's lonely.

@DeepDish the oppossite of misogyny is philogyny to answer a question i offered last week

@Madfor Men: Connie was a guest at a wedding reception at the country club at the same time Don was there for Roger & Jane's party. We know this is true because we saw bridesmaids scurrying out of the restroom a step ahead of Trudy. I don't think your theory has any legs. But... I've been wrong before.

Congrats and best wishes to Christina and hubby. What a beautiful, happy looking bride! Deep Dish, the henna thing's called mehndi (not sure if I'm spelling it right). It's a classic Indian wedding tradition. Beautiful intricate designs are hand-painted with a natural dye onto the hands and feet of brides. The dye eventually fades after a few days/weeks. She had shoes on too. :)

No matter all of Don's faults, there was something you had to like about the guy in the first season or so. Now, he's unbearable. The way he's talked to Sally, Peggy , and Roger (surely both ways but really Don got judgmental for no reason) etc. He's insufferable. The kind of guy that's cruising for a fall. I can't see why the writers would feel a need to set him up for such like this (to have viewers turn on him) but maybe so.

Hell, Don can't even kick ass on a campaign (on which he did what?! No scenes of his inspiration).

His latest affair seemed like such a contrivance and I don't see that teacher going for it.

Both Betty and Don seemed to be on track for a bit with genuine tenderness etc and now both of them are slutting out.

I have to confess, that except for the lawn mower scene, there's nothing about this season that grabs me the way the first one does.

The scene with Sal in the phone booth was just Sal unable to figure out how to tell Kitty he got fired, and mostly what to tell her about why he got fired. He's telling Kitty not to wait supper (carry-out Chinese) and that he's working late to buy time. It will be interesting to see if we get shown how or if he tells Kitty, but I doubt MW shows us.

@Mississippi Sweat Tea: I completely agree with your entire post. It's getting tiring and exasperating trying just to follow. At least if I'm reading a good book I can go back and read a paragraph if I need to. You're right, its just too disjointed and doesn't flow. If you need proof, compare season 1 to season 3.

@Mad for Men: Conrad was attending a wedding at the same club Roger was hosting his party. Conrad was NOT a guest of Roger's. MW might surprise us and have a diabolical scheme cooked up between Roger and Connie, but that would mean that Roger lied about knowing Connie. Also, that would have had to be set up prior to the party, and the blunt split between Don & Roger happens during the party.

The singer is Nnenna Freelon.

@Sandy: After the phone booth we see Sal back at SC in the "wee small hours" copying his book. (making copies of all his work) This, along with a resume' is essential in job hunting. He may become suicidal, but at this point Sal is clearly thinking about landing his next job.

Connie and and Don did not meet at Roger's party; per se; they met in the neutral bar of the club, Don escaping from the party and Connie escaping from a wedding at thr same club.

I commended Don for his diligence in the pursuit of what he wanted(Miss Farrell). He did however in my opinion leave himself open to a good left hook. We know how wierd Connie is. What if he had called Don at his home after he told Betty he was going to see Conrad Hilton. Our boy would have been in quite a pickle.
I also enjoyed a subtle moment in this episode regarding Don and Hilton. For those of you who watch the show again: after Don makes his pitch in the conference room, the two underlings that Hilton brought sit with blank faces while there is a pause. When Hilton approves, these men sprout the happiest of smiles. just another little detail that makes this show so much fun to watch closely Some of the best acting on this show is done without dialogue. Kitty's face during Sal's h'omage to Ann Margaret in their bedroom said so much.Draper/Hamm is a master at this technique. Any one have other examples of "great looks/eye rolls) on the show.

I think it would be a good plot twist if Conrad Hilton really did call Don and Betty's home while Don is with the schoolteacher.What kind of explosion would follow?

Re: amybett: great forsight in the "pre-episode" blog.
Bipolar: Right on target with Betty's lack of political acumen; hence her thinking it's not the right time for civil rights action - living in the up-scale suburbs of NYC in 1963, she really was not personally affected by the civil rights era - and Betty's world consists of about a five foot diameter around Betty.
Nick Stephens: Love the Gatsby comparision.
What I caught was Sally's reference to her school binder as her "Loose Leaf". Waiting to hear her need some "oak tag" for a school project (ie. poster board).
Also, I don't think anyone mentioned Suzanne's jogging t-shirt: Bowdoin is a highly selective liberal arts college in Maine. I don't think our jogging teacher is as"pure" or as egotistical as she is set up to be - maybe more shrewd and cunning - like a fox. (IMHO) We can only wait to see.
Also, I think this ep could also be based on the description of Baby Gene that Betty referred to when he woke up to his crying: "You want what you want when you want it - who does that remind me of?" (sic) I think many of these characters!!! (Don, Betty, Pete, CH, Suzanne, etc)
I love reading all the comprehensive insights ;)

Hobo, right you are. Philogyny. Of course.

Someone else seems to agree with your baseball metaphor. A guy named Whit