Hey Sab, I'm here! Can't believe the season is half over (sob).

Hello first time posters. You will not be eaten. Jump in and join in. There are many smart and funny people here and you are most welcome. Let the party begin.

Seven Twenty Three? A train arrival? Or?

It's July now, so 723 could be a date ... July 23?

Didn't someone say it was the date David Ogilvy died in 1999. Perhaps an homage to him? We'll soon find out.

Deep Dish, I've been meaning to tell you....I love your avatar.

Yes, NNT, I, too, am betting it is related to David Ogilvy.

Yes, Deep Dish I love your avatar too. It's like you're jumping into the room yelling "TA-DA".
The scene I saw on Fancast ...Roger discussing Ogilvey in the elevator with Don. ....7/23 must be the date...I hope this is as good and exciting as "Guy walks in"
My avatar.-sorry it might bother some. Hubby says I look a bit like MS... I think the pic fits with my chosen handle...don't you?
And sab is in honor of Visan who absolutely hates Betty . Visan has not been seen for awhile. I can only hope she's still here. She was having some difficulties last year and has slipped away. Perhaps she has a new name and all is well with her.
Hope so!

Rasputin-- you are missed! Did someone upset you or are you getting on with more important things? I don't recall you weighing in on episode 6. I miss your unique perspective, especially your musical knowledge. :-(

Your avatar does not bother me, Sab4ever. I like Martha. I use Dame Judi for mine because she is my favorite British actress and also because I am supposed to resemble her....I don't see it myself...we just have the same hair style.

Yes, Rasputin, Fifty-two is correct...you have been missed. If you are still speechless over the whole ugly foot incident, I hope you recover in time for Sunday's episode.

Deep Dish - Was it really necessary to post three times within six minutes? You were the first poster, did you need to be the first three? Just sayin'.

BTW, why is this thread open two days before the show airs? Whatever. Looking forward to Episode 7.

@deepdish I am only back because of your avatar!!

@stefanchikm

Repeat postings may be due to hang-time delays on this site; it can be maddening when you post something only to have it disappear in the ether, then reappear after you've tried again. And again.

Also, open threads for upcoming episodes have been posted on Friday evenings most if not all of this season. I assume it's because Lily does it before she heads out the door for the weekend.

Yeah Hobocode! don't ever be gone so long again. Very worried...

Hobo.... Excellent!. SO relieved....and know I'm one of many..(I was afraid the cat got your tongue...)

I'm back too after not being able to post or read about the entire past episode. I tried emailing Lily for help but got no response. I thought I was banned from this site. I finally emailed another Maddict and she gave me a clue and I fixed it. Then, I printed out all 700 plus posts (84 pages with very small print) and read them all!!! I was happy to see very little arguing, but PLEASE - NO POLITICAL DISCUSSIONS?

@hobo: DON'T EVERY SCARE US LIKE THAT AGAIN. you simply CANNOT ever leave us!!!

thanks to all who so generously have welcomed me back,, I don't think the "cat got my tongue" but something ( i won't go into detail) or someone "Got my Goat). I would never leave for good. Just took a little trip and tried to figure out if I wanted to come back. Kind of pulled a Don Draper. anybody pregnant?

No, but if you see Lois coming at you on a riding lawn mower, you would be well advised to jump on a desk or something....welcome back, Mister Salty.

Poor Lois -- she's getting quite the rap as the klutz and the butterfingers.

Wonder what will happen to her now?:(

Come on Roger....get motivated. You had your pep talk from Bert after being humiliated in the conference room, and by Don at the country club. It's time to show these people that you are not just a lazy, drunken philanderer. Use your wit and charm to snag a big account, come back to the office and put together a great campaign. After all of those years being around ad people, you must have picked up something! You seem like you could be a great leader. I would be in a fox hole with you any day. We already know what happens when you go in a fox hole with the other guy........you go in as a Don and you come out as a dead Dick.

Roger to I love Joan: Have you ever heard the joke about the baby bull and the Papa bull on a hill looking into a valley of cows? I'm the Papa Bull. I was just waiting for Guy to put his foot down :)

Is this site having problems again? I can't believe nobody is commenting since Friday night.

Wasthere-- if you refresh AFTER entering a topic by clicking on the topic title again, it usually brings you the newer postings. It's a pain, but works for me. The recent comments haven't been added in a timely way for about a week now, it seems. I can't read my own new comments unless I refresh by hitting the "TALK" button on the top right, or by re-hitting the topic title after entering that topic.

Hi wasthere....I've noticed that I sometimes have to hit either the F5 key (or just refresh) to get all the comments to appear....have no idea why. Hope that helps.

Sorry, fifty-two...our posts crossed.

Deep Dish: In answer to you invitation for newcomers to jump right in...I did (under two other screen names) about a month ago and each time I was run out of town on a rail. I was originally on as a newcomer (first screen name) to this site then decided that by switching names I would be okay. I never posted anything against anyone, just talked about Mad Men. Could never get anyone to answer me but persevered anyway. It was about this time that I began to be accused of being three or four other posters. Often, the same poster (who is still here but mostly on the main thread) would make these accusations and I never knew why they thought I was these other people. Things like, "Go to bed, Monty. We know it's you, Monty" And, "Take your meds, Scarlett O'Hara. You are not welcome here." I forgot the names of the others I was accused of being. Every time I would come on under my second screen name (as happened with the first screen name), one particular poster (and then a whole angry mob) would descend on me accusing me of everything from hating women to planning the 9/11 attacks to being part of an AMC conspiracy. I thought that one was hysterically funny. One poster would always say things like they could tell it was someone else because of my punctuation and the way I wrote things. I got a laugh out of that one because that same poster got mad at another poster because they did not use any punctuation! Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't, I guess. Things finally got so bad I fled. My teenaged daughter got a laugh out of it and said "Mom, told you so!" She had warned me that some of these chat rooms can get insane and this one sure did. I thought that since this was about Mad Men, it would be decent. Boy, was I wrong. While I would like to join back in, it seems that there is a little core group (at least from what I have surmised) and some of those people don't want anyone new included, even though they claim otherwise. Not you, Deep Dish, but there are those who invite people in and then start accusing them of all sorts of things, mainly being other posters. If someone new enters the forum, it's a cinch you aren't going to have seen their screen name before because they are new. And, I cannot believe no one else here has changed a screen name or two along the way. There are other posters who seem to be revered here, who often covertly harass anyone but the core group unmercifully, then step back with indignation and say "Who me? I would never do that." This seems counter-productive to me. When I saw your invitation, though, I just had to write this. I have been hanging back for roughly a month now, rather afraid to venture back, lest I be accused of being Osama bin Laden or someone else.

Sweetclover..
I am sorry that happened to you.. I am new here and have been snapped at and have seen some people get attacked just for asking a question.

This is about Mad Men and our love of the show and the characters. Some people on this site get very irritated with one another. You still read some great posts and get new insights from them, but you can get caught up in the "cat fights" too sometimes. Like others have said...just Scroll on by....

We all love this show and I can't imagine watching it without being able to come here and read what everyone has to say, but can't we all just get along!!??

@ I love Joan at 9:52 a.m. Saturday: Thanks for your thoughtful post to Roger. I couldn't concur more. He needs a good talking to and he's not going to get it from a therapist.

@ Sweetclover: There is a clique here, but if you do your homework (watch each episode and read all the comments before you weigh in -- this is arduous but important) and post polite, carefully considered, intelligent observations, this is a very warm, welcoming and fascinating place to be with your fellow Maddicts.

I'm with those who think that Seven Twenty Three is a hotel room.

Oh! Is this the decorating committee for Sunday night's big bash? I'm not afraid of heights, so I can help with the streamers. The cater waiters kicked me out of the kitchen for over snacking.

Have you heard about Lois?... I know! She's (the actress) is joining the cast of that obviously doomed Kelsey Grammer sitcom. Poor Lois. Last Sunday was her last day as well.

You know, I'll actually hang out in the back alley and have a smoke with the band.
See you after the show.

About the newbies vs. long-time posters and cliques...I'm pretty new to this forum too, although I've watched Mad Men since it started. I had never posted to any kind of board before. I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that all were indeed welcome to post opinions and I started right off with my own thread. After posting a couple of threads (I even started one thread with the disclaimer that I'd probably be whacked on the head, but I wasn't expecting some of the responses I got) and responding within others, I do see that there is a "protocol" to these boards that makes it hard for new people to become accepted. If you haven't read every post and you ask a question that's been asked before, you might be answered with a touch of sarcasm and/or a slap of the hand. Yes, there are a handful of posters who know so much they would probably tell the Pope his business if they could get an audience. Yes, there is a mutual admiration society within this forum. And yes, there are some posters who write truly mean, ugly things about others. Folks, no one owns these boards. Everyone should be welcome. Really. If someone asks a question that's been asked before, we should answer it, not tell them to go back and read a thousand prior postings before they can be bona fide. If someone offers an opinion, we don't need to tromp on it as if we were Sally getting back at Betty by ruining her flower garden. That's my two cents.

Umm, the band made me come back in here to tell you kids that you're harshing our buzz. I don't think you guys should start spiking the punch before the show gets started...
Now don't make me come back in here, I'm trying to make nice with the clarinetist!

Well, this is a new thread, and tomorrow brings us a new Mad Men to enjoy, so as a cranky old Maddict, let me just say welcome to all you new Maddicts.

To all the other old Maddicts, please forgive me if I ever ran over your toes with my lawn mower. I will try to steer a more congenial course in the future, and opt for tact and diplomacy, so you don't feel the need to come after me with the hedge clippers.

.....Oh, brother. Not again.....

Doin' the same thing. Over and over again. Expectin' a different result - Eeyore

In the final episode of last season, when we saw presumably Duck sitting in the dark with his shotgun, I was certain this season would have opend up with the news that there was "duck
a l'orange" all over the walls of his office. Now, I am starting to think that maybe he was contemplating taking out Don (and others?) with that gun. Was Duck ever in the postal service?

By the way, Stagekiss left a fascinating post over on the thread about getting together for a Mad Men party. I asked her to post a separate thread, but in case she does not, be sure to read her post as it is all about her getting to be an extra during the Maypole scene with Don, Betty and Grandpa Gene. It sounds like it was a thrilling experience.

That was Pete with a .22 not Duck with a 12 gauge.

I guess I should have known that. And to think that my second guess choice was that it was the janitor sitting in the dark with his squeegee.

Nope. That was Hollis and his RCA.

.....Stagekiss.....Great story, and experience. Now you have us all wondering how you came to be an extra on the set.

What fun.....so nice to know that you were treated so well.

anyone watch the sneak peek video for this week? Betty is looking like she's got her "resilient figure" back - wondering if we are skipping ahead a few months??

I'm not a newbie but I have changed my avatar. I sympathize with you new posters...it's never easy being "new".

May I suggest you wait until Monday to try to read/post to this main page? I like to watch the new episode twice and even three times to let it all soak in.

Something else that is helpful is to use the List of All Topics to see the titles of new posts. Some very interesting and worthwhile conversations take place but get pushed off the front page as more topics are posted. As many posters have said, this is not the easiest site to use, but with a little patience and determination, it can be fun.

This site is merely a reflection of society at large. Out there as in here it can be difficult integrating into an already established group. Veteran posters can be more tolerant, but the newer posters also need to have a little bit of a thicker skin. I am sure I was insulted by someone or other, still happens. So what. I am equally sure I have offended others as well. Again c'est la vie. I definitely do not think we need a mutual admiration society in here. That would be as boring as let's say mmmmm I don't arguing about baby caps, or pantyhose, or closing a light instead of turning a light off.

Sweetclover - your experience in this blog is very unfortunate, indeed. But just like in "real life" bullies are everywhere, and the anonymity of cyberspace only makes them more bold, rude, and even cruel. Consider the source and how desperate their lives must be if they don't have the courage or courtesy to express themselves in an acceptable and respectful manner. Remember, bullies are cowards. Brush the dust off your feet, Dahlin', and move on, or as one blogger said, "Scroll on by... ." And if might help to develop a thicker skin -- we're enjoying a TV show, not solving world hunger. ;-D

Fellow Maddicts - I'm looking forward to E7...believe 723 is a room number, Betty will become involved in the PTA or something else "political" as her station in life (suburban well-to-do wife and mother of the 60s) will allow, but nothing on the national stage, and the body????...hmmm...think it's Dr. Boo-Hoo-Baby -- he needs to go and let Joan live again! And I’m still waiting to see how Peggy spiced up her roommate ad…

S2

...one more thing - save the political discussions for another forum. Thanks.

S2

Anyone - how do you search for text entries, or just do simple navigation in the blog? I investigated it on my own without success.

Thanks.

S2

DeepDish: Darling: you make me wanna read a book-I've been meaning to say this for a 'couple wks and now had le chance!
("A Gate at the Stairs" by Lorrie Moore, BTW-on my night-table). CHEERS!

Laurie B.-we are kindred in our TV viewing habits: I, too, lost interest in/and Nip/Tuck lost funding because of some bizarre risks they took (far beyond the wildly outlandish subj matter they were exploring). Sie glauben mich?! I'm sooo curious about what will happen NEXT on "Son's of Anarchy" on FX: set in "CHARMING" USA. Hmmm.

-"ENCHANTER" : 'newbies' to this roller-coaster-esqe SITE. It is the BEST if you truly WISH to discuss Mad Men. I have NEVER been in any other chat spaces and rarely even check my g-mail since I do not work in this medium. NONETHELESS, I am so HONORED to have been participating here for about a year: in-the-scheme-of-things; and have my friends, peers, detractors, and ignorerers to THANK for their tolerance AND participation in a dialogue about a TV series that is utterly captivating and intelligent and FUN and historically important: then and NOW!?

-ps 186: I miss your input; hope you are well!

In all respects: SURFING and otherwise!: "LET IT RIP!"

FANZI NANZI!
(CANNOT WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW and EPI 7!)

s2nia writes: "We're enjoying a TV show, not solving world hunger." Exactly! As I responded to a critical poster once, "It's a blog, not a white paper."

fan-nan - I too cannot wait for the new ep tomorrow night! We need something new to talk about, and I'm dying to find out the story behind the guy on the floor in the preview. I try not to let those promos get to me since they are usually misleading, but this one sucked me in!

I hate to hear of newbies having a hard time on the forum. Please stick around and contribute to the dialogue. It's always good to know that more people out there share this Maddiction. :-)

S2inla: There is - sigh - no text search on this blog. You can go to "complete archives" and search by subject, but I warn you, you'll have to search every thread on the subject!

Just for the record, David Ogilvy, the father of advertising for those who may not be aware, died on 07/21/1999, but was buried on 07/23/1999.

Egyptbelle, Zerelda, Jeffee64, IwasPeggy, and anyone else who had something positive to say on the subject, thanks. To those habitual downers who didn't, well, I won't address you because to do so just starts the whole thing up again. Zerelda, you never stepped on my toes when was here before, but honestly, yours is the first sincere apology I ever read on these boards. Amazing!

Egyptbelle, I especially related to your posting. You are so correct that it is really not necessary to insist that others read hundreds of postings (who has that kind of time?) and/or pounce on others like Betty on Sally. So many condemn Betty as the meanest mother on earth, and then turn around and act far worse to whomever they select to pounce on here. I have noticed who among the posters are habitual bullies. I can say I have never felt that from you ladies, but there are those who are always in evidence. If they don't like whatever someone posts, they simply must make light of it or put it down. So unnecessary but perhaps it's necessary for them to do so. I also notice there are posters who I enjoyed reading and posting with earlier in the season (before I left), who now come on infrequently, having possibly had their own problems with the board bullies. One in particular was also accused of being an alternate poster like I was.

Am looking forward to tomorrow night's episode. Hope it's a good one. When new material comes out I notice that there isn't so much vitriol, at least for awhile.

hobocode52: A thicker skin is one thing (I am not disagreeing) but I was called everything from a woman-hater (I myself am a woman), to an idiot, and then insulted again and again, and accused constantly of being about 10 different posters. Things got so abusive that I found the only thing was to leave. Scrolling on by did nothing. The same posters were like an angry mob taking out their own frustration. I think everyone needs to respect everyone, stop the accusations and name-calling, the little innuendoes, and the "asides" that are designed to bait. Oldies need to remember this as do newbies. Everyone. No exceptions when one has had a bad day and wants to verbally pummel another.

S2nia: Yes, bullies are everywhere but I think when things are anonymous like this, people tend to think and feel they can just go hog wild with the bullying and insults. Would anyone really call someone else in a store, or your neighbor, "A stupid idiot?" Or accuse them of being someone other than who they were? I don't think so. Everyone, as Egyptbelle pointed out, should be able to come here without fear they will be disrespected.

Not to belabor this any further. Again, looking forward to tomorrow's show.

s2inla: Sorry, your name is a bit hard to read on my screen. Just wanted to say I agree with you (that probably was not as evident above) and I agree too that those people who are bullies are rather desperate. However, this should be a place where no poster needs to run the gauntlet and hope someone won't insult them, just so they can continue posting. No one should have to be subjected to abuse. Anywhere. Again, the anonymity of these boards invites bullying, and uncivilized behavior from more than a few.

Okay, again, enough said by me on this subject.

zabadu - thanks for the tip. Now I won't continue looking for a quicker way to find posts!

sweetclover - what do you think is going to happen in E7? It's going to have to be spectacular to top a mangled foot, don't you think? I had to rewind and watch that whole scene several times just to put my brain around it!

S2

What "could happen" in the next Mad Men episode???

Joan could find a way back in to the series even if her husband doesn't die.

Betty could try to be a less cruel and indifferent mother.

Mad Men is all about the yoyo behaviour of all of the leads. Sometimes you like them because they are heros and sometimes you hate them because they are villians.

Just like all of us.

Anyways, overall I like Peggy and Don.
I don't like Roger and Betty. But that just betrays my innermost bias and prejudice I think.

…..S2…..Are you a new friend or an old friend rocking a new name?

If you choose (or dare!) to hang around here for a spell, you will quickly learn who are friends, who are the ACTUAL bullies, and who among us are just plain downright unstable.

As to the navigation, you can always try the Talk list links, or searching, either by search term or by tag, but you will be in good company if neither is satisfactory.

Glad you enjoyed my “manhole” story. Actually, I was never a bored kid. More, that I asked way too many questions about how this and that worked, and why this and that.

My mothers’ and older sibs’ answer to everything just about then was “go find a manhole cover to play with….bwah ha ha ha!!”

Funny, huh.

bluestreak53 - You are absolutely correct – ANYTHING can happen! That’s why we love the show so! ;-D

Betty is not a bad mother, just indifferent, and so typical of the times and her breeding. I see her as falling into the Valley of the Dolls scenario and going running for the shelter of her mother’s little helper.

We all pull for Peggy, and, quite frankly, I want to see Don revert back to his philandering, callous, cool ways! Stop making us like you, sensitive guy, father, husband! OY!

Now, Joan is another deal altogether – smart, beautiful, sexy, and full of hidden treasures! Let’s see ‘em! My prediction is she’ll be hired back in the TV department, and the accounts will explode.

Sunday night can’t come quickly enough…

S2

I agree that 723 is probably a room number...perhaps something interesting will happen at the Waldorf....I can't wait for tomorrow's episode!!

Dry Manhattan - I’m a new poster, and thanks for the tip on searching. It’s just so maddening scrolling through the endless posts when I want to address a specific one…oh, well.

I was so taken back and overwhelmed with compassion about someone enduring verbal assault on something so trivial. Bloody-hell, this is a TV show; it’s entertainment! But I do understand rudeness and cruelty and there’s no place for it.

I truly did a “spit take” on Betty’s comment to Bobby to “bang his head against the wall.” And then the conversation thread about all the similar comments, “Go play on the L.I.E.,” “Go play with a manhole cover,” just added to the laughter. How did we survive our childhoods, I wonder????

Hey, how about that Sally? She’s what, 10 years old? And she’s drinkin’, smokin’, drivin’, and stealin’ – what a kid! Is she ever a pressure cooker for the upcoming time in history, huh? If the show addresses the time period, my prediction is Sally will become involved in Beatle-mania, Strawberry Fields Forever, the Summer of Love, and Woodstock (you know, with her being so hip and everything!).

We shall see…com’on Sunday night!

S2

s2inla: I have to admit that I was not thrilled by last week's episode with the tractor. Actually, I was grossed out by it. I try not to predict what I think will happen in future episodes because Weiner and his crew are so unpredictable. Things happen on the show I never would have imagined. Like that tractor thing.

I also agree with your other post that Betty is not a mean mother, just a product of her era. She really took an unfair bashing a couple of weeks ago (when I was still lurking in the shadows and just reading posts). At least that is my opinion. And I also would like to see Don Draper return to his seasons one and two persona. He has been so bland in season three that it has about put me to sleep. Where is the Don Draper of yore?

Would like to see more of Pete and Trudy. And Ken Cosgrove.

One thing I should add:

Although I don't really like Betty, I am intrigued by her inner struggle. She could be my mother - or become my mother. I see her as being a potential bipolar abusive person who just loses control of her sense of right and wrong.

Anyone remember when she punished Sally by locking her in the closet? Not normal or healthy, but she still retained her pretense of upper class breeding going off to ride the horses.

I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed how much the mood of the whole series seems like a knock off of "Far From Heaven"????

Of course, "Far From Heaven" takes place in Hartford I believe, which is far from Manhatten, but the lead in Far From Heaven seems to share much in common with Sal.
Hopefully he doesn't end up to be such a wreck.

But Don does share much with Sal because Don has his inner secrets and uses his casual self as a shell to hide his past. So his marriage is at least as phony as Sal's. At least that is my opinion.

S2Inla: Oh, and I think a lot of mothers of Betty's era used to tell their kids ridiculous things like: Go play in traffic, or go bang your head against a wall, and other dumb stuff like that. While I don't think those things are necessarily very funny or clever, I think that generation might have thought they were. It was probably a quick and easy way to get the kids out of their hair without having to come up with something more productive or positive for them to do. My mother used to have a list of things we could do when we told her we were bored: Clean our rooms, clean the bathrooms, take out the garbage, take the dog for a walk, give the dog a bath, do some extra-credit reading, go ask the neighbors if they had any chores that needed doing and so on and so forth. When we learned this was always going to be our mom's response to our boredom, we usually kept the fact that we were bored to ourselves. Or, if we were truly bored, we took her up on one of her suggestions, and our boredom soon disappeared. I thought this was such a positive way for her to handle her bored kids.

I think that the staff at Sterling Cooper would be much more productive and happy in the workplace, if only they had better sex lives. Consider this "frequency" list:

Pete: once per month, but he got an extra one on the night of the Roger's country club party.

Don: other than one time about ten months ago, only "road games" for Don.

Ken: the first time will be awkward but wonderful.

Paul: possibly once per week, but his constant thoughts of social issues distract him and he finsihes poorly.

Harry: once every three months, but always with his tee shirt and socks on.

Peggy: she took care of business with the college guy, but the next time will probably be a long way off.

Joan: whenever "he" wants, which probably hasn't been for quite awhile since he has had his residency stresses.

Roger: It was great while it lasted.

Sal: 'nough said.

Hi Sweetclover!

I welcome or re-welcome you to the Forum.
I am sorry about the issues you had with some postings.
We share some things in common.

This was the first social type internet site I ever joined. My love of MM made me search out the site. So many people I spoke with had no idea what Mad Men was. I had to connect with fellow fans.

When I first began to post, I would be disappointed if I didn't get a response from anyone. Now, I know that the Maddicts on the site were wary of "trolls".

By the way, before joining this Forum, I thought trolls were those chubby plastic naked dolls with the funky colored tuft of hair that we collected in the 60s!!

There were a few kind Maddicts who helped me through. Some, sadly, I think have left the site. For this reason I try to welcome all new Maddicts to the Forum. I feel like I'm giving back what was given to me.

I stay with this Forum through good and bad because we all share a love of Mad Men, and the time period it is set in. I take all points of view, although I may not agree with them.
And, I have learned so much from my fellow Maddicts.

Hang in there, and stay away from anyone giving out the negative vibe.
I look forward to your posts!!

An article on the subtlety of the series by Matthew Gilbert, TV critic for the Boston Globe. This speaks to some of the remarks that have been made about this season being boring.

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2009/09/27/creator_of_mad_men_keeps_its_characters_true_to_its_era/

IwasPeggy: Thanks for posting Matthew Gilbert's article, a great way to kick off today's Mad Men Marathon on AMC. “Mad Men exists in our reactions to what we see." I agree. I wouldn't be surprised to see this board expand throughout the day.

For anyone who uses ComCast:
There is a Mad Men marathon of all the Season 3 episodes today 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. on AMC.

@ 60s chick: The season 3 marathon is on AMC, so you don't need Comcast, just cable TV from any company.

@ IwasPeggy: great article in the Boston Globe! Thanks for posting. Everybody: it's not that long (so I read it). The point seems to be that "Weiner and his writers don’t pin down how we should feel; they leave it all suspended, little bits of melodrama, quiet character revelations, cultural snapshots. You have to return to the episodes after you’ve seen them, put the pieces together, to really see the show." This is why each episode invites a second or third viewing, why everyone's take is different, and why this board is such a happnin' place.

many have commented that 723 is a room number. possible evidence to support this is in the description of the epi, peggy gets an expensive gift and in the photo posted for this episode, peggy is seen sitting on a very nice couch in a room that looks as if it could be a hotel room. As you know, it very well could have more that one meaning, those MM writers are always so clever. Someone elso posted that it is a code used in the ad industry.

I think that adequate credit has not been given to the superb casting decisions that have been made on Mad Men.

Imagine if they chose to cast Peggy in Joan's role and vice-versa. Still would have worked, but not nearly as well.

Or if a different actor was chosen to play Don...same lines, but a less handsome, charismatic dude. Still good, but not great.

Just for kicks, while waiting for episode 7 to air, shuffle each of the actors (or any other actors) into any part on the show and I think you will agree that the perfect casting choices were made.

I'm watching the marathon now-what a treat for an otherwise crummy rainy day in NYC. I agree with Oz and thank IWP for the article..it's true and insights on this board make the second, sometimes thrid and fourth viewing for me replete with new meaning. I think, like all things Mad Men, that 723 will have many meanings. I also note how MW infuses color as character (like so many great directors) and wonder what all the orange is about in Ep307. I know MSG was originally on 23rd street and that account was a hard win, great Don save,ridiculous loss. I hope we see more office politik, sexy Don, a bit weary of Betty/Sally/Gene , more Kitty, Ken, ad campaigns.

@Ilovejoan I agree the casting director is a genius. I cannot image a better mix of players.

Wish this forum had an edit option.. meant to say imagine.

Many shows with an ensemble cast, have episodes that feature a certain character. Sal had his ep in this seasons opener. Peggy and Joan have been explored in depth on a couple of shows. Besides man of mystery "Dock Whaper" how about some amplification on two other characters of mystery. Cooper and Ken.

Sweetclover, thank you for your nice words. I've been wanting to state my case for quite awhile - now it's off my chest.

Moving on! Re: Betty and Sally, I noticed in the last episode how big Sally is getting - that is, she is growing so tall she may soon have her mom (Betty) looking up to her. She still has her baby face and lisp, but she is a growing girl! In the scene where she's sitting on the bed receiving her Barbie doll, she makes Betty look almost Barbie-size herself.

There will surely be a change in Lane and his penny pinching management style and I think that could fun. Looking forward to how that will play out and how Joan will get back to the office. Hope that little snot male secretary will fall from grace.

I think that "little snot male secretary" is kinda cute. And Lane is interesting and also sort of good looking. I'm sure it's mostly there very British accents but I hope they're not written out of the show. I would miss them.

Hi everyone!
Has anyone mentioned that 7:23 could be a time?

I have my theories...

share 60's child - i thought maybe a date - that would put betty about 6 weeks post partum.

the suspense is killing me -cannot wait until 10pm - so much good tv tonight - dexter, curb, mm!

More kudos to the costume people. You even researched that British tie fasion of that year had ties almost a full inch wider than American ties. You guys are amazing.

Another third viewing observation,,,,,Joan to Peggy at their good-by moment, "I'm sure we'll see each other all the time." What could she have possibly meant by that?

Maybe it was a clue that both Joan and Peggy are going to end up at Grey. Peggy's expensive gift tonight is probably from Duck. I think she will leave SC because Don dissed her and after all, "it is her time".

But what would Joan's job be? Will Peggy recommend her?

Could this show really put forth quality stories from behind the walls of two ad agencies?

I very much doubt there will be Mad Men with dueling ad agencies. That would totally alter the dynamic of the show,and it's already stretched thin with so many characters and storylines. Peggy may think about going to another agency, but more than anything, the offer will probably make her more ambitious at SC and she will attempt to move further up in the company. Plus, I can't see her leaving Don, as they have a good mentor/student relationship. I think Joan will be coming back to SC soon, either to take her old job back or perhaps to work under Harry in the TV department. She's so beloved at SC, someone will make a place for her.

Not to mention the fact that Peggy wouldn't get hired at Grey because she would fail the drug test.

My, how far we have come.

The series makes me angry as a modern woman. I dont want to see girdles and stockings; they're symbols of oppression. I want to see Birkenstocks and practical clothes!

Maybe Peggy will be given a suite at the Waldorf Towers..she could be assigned the Hilton account. Don can't make because he is lying on the floor of some cheap hotel. :)

@sweetclover and to any Maddicts here bullied or jumped on: I just survived my first bullying, as a thread on a Jon Hamm political video turned ugly. I had written my opinion, but was bashed for it. I called this poster a bully, and was going toe-to-toe with them, but thought it best to move on. I was accused of being everything from a right-winger, to a republican *sigh* I realized this person had to be right, and so, I decided to pull up my tent poles from that discussion. Hang around sweetclover! I really like your insight, and I'm glad to have your voice here. Perhaps the bullying and harassment we survive is our first Maddict test on this blog :-)
Back to the show: sweet lady zerelda brought up my Mad Men experience, and I'd like to post it, only, I fear it'll be too long-so much happened on my 5 day journey to be on Mad Men, I don't want to leave anything out, but I don't want to bore anyone, either...would you like to hear the whole thing?

And after reading all these insights here, about what 7:23 means, for tonight's episode, I'm utterly stumped! All of the speculations and observations make great sense, and here I thought it was a date foreshadowing the Career Girls Murder that happened in NYC, on August 29th. Remember when Peggy's looking for a roommate, and her card reads: 'Career Girl Seeks Roommate'. I speculated that, because Manhattan is so expensive (and Peggy says so several times), she and her roommate take on another roommate, to cut costs. According to the famous Career Girls Murder, 3 career girls lived together in a Manhattan apartment, and the the grisly murder is discovered by the 3rd Career Girl roommate, when she comes home from work. It would make sense to me that the girl to find the murders would be Peggy, as she works so much. A Maddict in another thread said that this story was huge, so it would make sense that Weiner would try and weave it into the show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Career_Girls_Murders

Perhaps after the lawnmower accident, there can only be so much blood and guts every season :-)

To:Sweetclover & hobocode52--

In have never, ever commented on a chat board until last week... here. I have very little free time -- the only shows that I watch are MM (from the very 1st ep) History channel and various movies.

Due to the compelling nature of last week's episode, I came to the AMC website and read the comments submitted here last Sunday and Monday. Of course, I found very interesting, cogent, well reasoned submissions. The entries that did not resonate with me - I simply skipped over. Never, at any time, did I feel impelled to demean or denigrate anyone else's input. Even if their comment was not even remotely germane to the general MM discussion.

I was very disheartened to see hobocode52 attempting to shut down a half dozen comments (with charactered expletives!) from people discussing the etymology of the phrase "close down the light". We all know that everything in MM is painstakingly researched and deliberately placed in each episode. As well, it is quite evident that "the light" was a recurring subtext in this episode. I wanted to hear what those people has to say about this topic.

hobocode52..How dare you foist your opinions upon/intimidate others? Especially on a relevant point... Simply because you, personally, don't like the direction of the conversation? Nor was it at all repetitive.

*****Most importantly, hobocode52, please review your comment of Sept.22 @9:38pm...

"I wish women today were smart enough to see who the real men are and respect them for it."

Are you kidding me?? I read all of the contextual comments prior to that post...I do not care how inane they were. Absolutely nothing warranted your response.

Certainly you have very firm opinions about the lack of intelligence inherent in women. Please keep your brazen misogyny to yourself.

As well, your justification that this board is simply a "reflection of society " is highly flawed, and simply a cop-out for you to rationalize your public denigration of other people's (valid) opinions.

Thank you sweetclover for your call to civility and common courtesy.

To coin phrase I first heard in the 60's..."If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all."

The only thing that I can say to anyone that is inhibited or bothered by anything that is said to them in a talk forum is "Sit down sissy Marys".

@Shelby-Welcome to the jungle!
@ILJoan-I don't think they had drug testing back then, did they?
@Stage-was that Central in Burbank? How did u hear of it-Backstage?

@Shelby: You said you were new to this forum and, if so, you are not aware that Hobo is one of many people's (especially women) favorites. He does have a dry sense of humor and he teases us and we tease him back. It's possible he lost patience with a subject that has been rehashed over and over and over again. But we all have our days. There was, however, a serious misogynist named Monty who said there was no such thing as rape. He got an eruption of rage from so many women here that I believe (and hope) he finally left. Please stay with us, and after a while you will get to know who are the good guys and the baddies.

@Shelby123 by all means feel free to critique my posts, thank you for your constructive criticism, I wish you well. Misogynistic? Really. I won't even dignify that with an answer.

Oh and another thing Shelby123, I like the history channel also, as well as various movies . Just like you. Maybe I will start a thread for just us two and we can discuss all our likes and dislikes. Doesn't that sound like great fun.

@wasthere Sincere thanks, for your kind words.

Hi BoyToy,

Yes, it was Central Casting in Burbank. I flew down for the call, from San Francisco. Gotta love the cheap flights from SFO to sweeten the deal!
I actually heard about the call from my Facebook friend Daria. She's signed up with SF Casting and LA Casting. It was listed with LA Casting.
Also, if you'll notice when the credits roll at the end of the episode, there are 2 other background casting firms, that cast the background, as well. Or, if you want to go right to the source, submit to the Casting Director, which is what I'm going to do for Season 4. The CD is also listed, in the end credits. I want a roll so badly on this show, it's become my near obsession. This show is one of the reasons I chose to be an actor: fantastic storytelling with compelling characters.

WELCOME NEWBIES!!! Don't be afraid! Jump right in! There are no "dumb" questions....just the occasional harsh answer, please stay and express yourself!
Remember that homework is due before each new episode viewing... ;)
(Homework consists of viewing all prior seasons and all prior episodes and contemplating any and all nuances and hidden interpretive meanings 24/7.)

@i

@Helen- I too thought about a room in the WA hotel....room #723 perhaps?

I love the show, but must admit that I like all the stuff that takes place in the office much better than most of what takes place elsewhere. This is perhaps because of my professional background (and current occupation) as an agency owner. And it is perhaps that perspective that leads me to believe that the most significant events of this season have been Don's two meetings with Conrad Hilton. It's obvious (I think) that the Brits must go, and that Joan must return. How does this take place? Will Don get the Hilton Hotels account and open his own shop? Will Roger and Burt buy back S-C? Does Duck re-enter the fray? We can't do without Roger. He has all the best lines. And we can't do without Joan and Peggy. I can't wait to find out.

@ilovejoan - I also applaud your kudos the the ENTIRE MM staff....they all do their part to make our excellent fav. show.

Thx Stage! You sound like you'll def get on again! Good luck :)

Stagekiss-- please do post about your MM audition experience! I'd love to read about that. Start your own thread so it doesn't get lost in this big one. P.S. break a leg!

Ok, I will! Thanks bluegirl!

wasthere
hobocode52

Thank you for the clarifying comments.... It is somewhat difficult to discern sarcasm or subtle humor in a written context.

My intent was to commend sweetclover on the points that she made. I don't spend much time on the internet, but I gather that most chat rooms have the atmosphere of a bar room brawl. I thought that this MM one would have a higher measure of civility.

Last week, I too was botherered by repetitiive comments that clearly were submitted without any review of previous posts whatsoever. amybett makes a very good point about doing one's "homework" etc.

I simply take exception to comments that attempt to curtail the exhange of ideas or are dehumanizing in any way. The bottom line is that everyone wants to be heard, and no one wants to be demeaned.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

@mcmere You own an ad agency? Do you insist that people take off their shoes before entering? ;)

I agree that the Hilton meeting is of great significance, not only for the business it brings to SC and potentially to shaping Don’s own career but also for the philosophy and politics that a man like Conrad Hilton can bring to the scene. I initially also enjoyed the office plot more than home life, but I've come to really enjoy MM's product placements and the ‘quaint’ appliances in the home.

I’m hoping for more ethical dilemmas at SC (e.g. the cigarette campaigns). No worries though. If anybody can make a discussion about interior design into something intriguing and mischievous, it’d be those Mad Men writers.

Looking forward to everyone's thoughts on epi 7.

@Shelby: I appreciate your feminist stance. I do think if you'd been here longer, you'd have realized that hobocode is a long time poster and as such is able to speak in shorthand and kid around because people know where he's coming from. People get exhausted with repeated lines of inquiry, as no doubt will you if you stick around long enough. We all have our breaking point, myself included.

Just to let you know that people only get accused of being Monty if they make a misogynist comment. Since you seem like someone who doesn't tolerate that sort of thing, I look forward to seeing your comments in the near future. I do think you will find the next 3-400 hundred posts very eye-opening.

Having worked in McCann-Erickson's Atlanta branch in 1975 - my first job out of college - there was another Atlanta ad agency called Burton-Campbell. This is where Hugh Wilson, worked before writing WKRP in Cincinnati.
But, back to the point...Campbell (Pete) and Erickson (as in Peggy's new roommate.) I find it interesting how MW is using agency names in his characters.

Also, if Sally is about 10, then I was her age in this drama.

By I love Joan on September 27, 2009 4:31 PM

Maybe it was a clue that both Joan and Peggy are going to end up at Grey. Peggy's expensive gift tonight is probably from Duck. I think she will leave SC because Don dissed her and after all, "it is her time".

But what would Joan's job be? Will Peggy recommend her?

Could this show really put forth quality stories from behind the walls of two ad agencies?

***********************************************

As you mentioned, will Peggy jump agencies. She could have Joan as her secretary. This solves 2 problems. Joan gets a job and Peggy gets her support. Peggy could help Joan move up, too.

@MADtini, I'm not in advertising myself but I am a NYer and I get a huge kick out of the real life ad agency names and info, as well as little Manhattan-centric tidbits such as having Pete be a Dyckman, "getting a nosebleed above 86th Street", etc.

I'm not sure if Sally has just turned 9 or just turned 10? From last season we know that her birthday is sometime around May, near Derby time, because Betty served mint juleps to the adults at her birthday party and said "it's that time of year". So she probably just had another birthday right before baby Gene arrived?

Getting ready...15 minutes and counting.

Just looked at the preview. Damn! It does look like Don on the floor. Maybe he didn't cut back on the salt?

It's nice to see that I am not the only one who lives for each sunday night!

@60schild (thanks for the welcoming words; I have always enjoyed your posts in the past).

@ egyptbelle (I know what it's like to want to get something off one's chest, I really do. Nice when you can do it and then move on as you did in your last posting).

@ stagekiss (Yes, I agree it is probably best to just scroll on by the negative posters or those who never have a good word and just want to be as disrespectful as possible. Ugh, that's just the pits. Sounds like you really did go head to head with someone. Funny, as you know this is a mere message board about a fictional television show, as are any other sites pertaining to Mad Men, and yet some posters treat the whole thing as though it's literally life and death. Looking at it this way it seems hysterically funny. But I also know how it feels to want to tell some people off. Seems that sometimes everyone is trying their utmost to be the flame-master.

@Shelby123 Thanks for your comments. I feel your frustration and it is your right to state what you did, even though others may disagree. I think at some point all the posters get a little to into this whole Mad Men thing (it's a great show but it's only a show, not life itself) and both oldies and newbies need to watch that they are not disrespecting others. Again, no poster runs this board or any other, so post away!

And now, since Mad Men is about to begin, I guess I will go and watch. Hope it's a good episode and that everyone enjoys it thoroughly.

any predictions? i think peggy is due for a good episode. less betty please.

********************START HERE************************

"Seven Twenty Three" starts...

so excited!

a few last minute observations about this forum before a new episode, the first three episode threads going back to season 2 episodes 1-3 averaged about 55 comments total. I think it now averages about 1,000 per show. just on the main thread. Kudos to SCFan, 60'schild and (who says republicans aren't forward thinking )LaurieB who seem to have been here since the beginning and still maintain an even keel

what a strange opening...

I've read all the posts up until MM EST, so I'm up-to-date on everything. But I'm on the "left" coast and don't have satellite TV...

See everyone after the West Coast airing...enjoy 'y'awl.

S2

you think peggy will sleep with duck?

Interesting opening. Betty gearing up for sex, Don with a bloody face, Don having to sign a contract, Don with the teacher....

Zab--Gearing up or reliving...? We shall see, I guess.

And I predict Don isn't going to sign and is going to take his show on the road.

(And what's with the being logged in one minute and then not logged in the next, and finding that out after you post?!)

Sally--You called it!!

I vividly remember that eclipse. It was Saturday, July 20, 1963. I was six years old, and my class gathered in a park to put cardboard boxes over our heads to see it. It was near total in Chicago, and I think even more total in Ossining.

I think Peggy slept with DUck (sorry if someone already guessed this.)

Please don't tell me Peggy ends up sleeping with Duck.

Well, I don't think she slept with Don!

Cheap and desperate shot, Roger!!

Wow, Don sure took it out on Peggy.

And did anyone notice that the fainting couch in the store window was the same couch Betty was reclining on?

Go, Duck, Go! Looks like Peggy will get to go to Paris~and I think Don is heading for the West coast. He's losing it!

I guess now we know how Don ended up passed out.

Old Man Cooper isn't as crazy and out of it as he appears. He laid low and played Don perfectly.

Then again looks like everybody has Don's number this episode.

“I owe my soul to the company store.” Indeed, he does.

Someone asked earlier if Peggy would jump agencies. Oh, she jumped something alright. Go Peggy! “Girl walks into a hotel room with an Hermes scarf…” Love it. Totally took me (and Peggy) by surprise.

What did Don mean when he said he wants no further contact with Roger? Huh? Can Bert make Roger go away?

PEGGY + DUCK: DOING IT!!! [gasp]

Cooper is crazy like a fox. Too bad for Pete that Don has a long memory, and keeps grudges, too.

Wonder why PP&L didn't force Don into a contract during the buyout? Seems like they'd have made it part of the deal.

What an episode! I like how it begins the morning after--7/23.

This episode was all about leverage--political, professional, and sexual. Connie and Don, Don and SC, Don and Miss Farrell, Betty and Henry, Betty and Roger, and, most surprisingly, Bert and Don. That last scene, with Bert's subtle blackmail--wow. Powerful stuff. Duck and Peggy was really...awkward? I hope he does not use this tryst against her somehow.

Don seemed his most vulnerable in tonight's show. The way Miss Farrell, Betty, and Bert talked to him was so unexpected--for us and for him. So many scenes just made me downright uncomfortable--such awkward conversations--and I think it was due in many cases to Don's discomfort in the scene.

This site is really bad tonight--worse than I've ever seen it.

I am wondering how Don is going to cope now. I was sure he was going to tell SC/PPL where to go!

"I'm Peggy Olsen and I want to get laid."

I still have the stench of the Duck/Peggy bit on me. Yuck.

Poor Don. He's completely by the balls now. Will be interesting to see this play out.

Did anyone find it odd that the teacher that "drunk dialed" Don was all "I'm no floozy" tonight?

7.23 the date Don sells out!

"maybe I was late because I was reading the bible with my family." ha!

CH throwing Don off momentarily by alluding to an affair with another Ad-Man?

Don doesn't give Roger any credit for meeting CH: "We travel in the same circles" even though Don knows those circles betray his roots...

"He's a real eccentric" says the man with his socks on the coffee table at a business meeting!

Peggy looses power when she doesn't call the shots sexually, and EWE!! DUCK!! WTF??!

Betty can't understand how to make a house a home she destroyed her hearth with an obnoxious selfish vengeful indulgence of antiquity!

Why an event with the teacher on Sat. in Summer??? Not plausible.

What's the significance of Don and Betty both looking directly into the eclipse but distracted by the Teacher and Henry??

Betty's modern new headband hairdo helps her speak out to Roger about going behind Don's back.

Conrad said young people could give Don energy, but Doug and Sandy outsmarted him....

Don believes he is a failure in his father's eyes?? "you grow bullshit"

Don's busted nose and Peggy does the walk of shame!!

Everyone keeps sitting in Don's chair.

@MadMenSuze, Yes, I noticed that too. I was thinking she was laying there fuming about Don not coming home, but of course, she was thinking of another who has her flustered! Good catch.

Can anyone with HDTV tell me what was written in the note left for Don by those delinquent draft dodgers?

Peggy and Duck scenes seemed surreal.

Peggy and Duck scenes seemed surreal.

Is anyone else having trouble with the site tonight?

Also, eclipses don’t occur “every 10 years” as Miss Farrell said – there is usually at least one solar eclipse a year and one lunar eclipse a year, sometimes more than one.

And did you notice that couch in the window is the same one Betty was reclining on?

Reds and booze – good combo, Don – and I knew something was going to happen in that hotel with him and those 2 kids, hence the bloody nose and Don out on the floor.

Don hallucinated while high and saw Archie Whitman. “You’re a bum” was reminiscent of Jimmy Barrett telling Don “you’re garbage and you know it.”

Seeing Betty lying on the fainting couch reminded me of when she saw her therapist. Maybe Betty never needed a shrink or a fling - she just needed to get some rest!

I still have the stench of the Duck/Peggy bit on me. Yuck.

Poor Don. He's completely by the balls now. Will be interesting to see this play out.

Did anyone find it odd that the teacher that "drunk dialed" Don was all "I'm no floozy" tonight?

@G Said something like "we left you the car. Your welcome" (their misspelling).

Well, Don signed so now he's theirs for the next 3 years. I think that little episode in the motel made him realize he needs to be connected to something, have some sort of protection. He certainly isn't going out on his own now. Betty sure ruined the new "look" with that fainintg couch in the living room..... why didn't she put it in the bedroom where it belongs.

I posted this once but this site is being very funny tonight, so I am not sure if it will be repeated. Please forgive.

I like the way the episode begins with the morning after, 7/23. Nice.

This episode was about leverage--professional, political, and sexual. Don and Connie, Don and the SC execs, Don and Miss Farrell, Betty and Henry (interesting character), Betty and Roger, Betty and Don, Bert and Don. That last scene--Bert's subtle blackmail. Wow. It was so powerful. And disturbing. As was Duck and Peggy's tryst. I hope Duck won't use this as leverage down the road. I found his passion for Peggy a little unbelievable (and hers for him for that matter).

Don seemed so vulnerable in tonight's show. No conversation went as he planned--and he is so used to, as he says, being able to "change the conversation." He is at a point where he cannot do so any more. I thought so many of the interactions were uncomfortable--for us and for him.

Site does not seem to be working very well. Perhaps it was the storm that came through my area earlier or something. Anyone else having trouble?

@G I think the note read:
"Thanks for the help. We left you the car. Your welcome"
Spelled Y-O-U-R.....

I like the familiar banter that Pete and Peggy have developed.
They're speaking to each other honestly like family. All thats missing is the kid.

Everyone is having trouble with this site, everywhere. FWIW, I have more success with Mozilla Firefox than IE.

One of the most clever episodes ever.

A lot of Don/Betty differences/similarities but other things first:

Did you catch the Duck foreplay?

It started the other episode. Either personal, or corporate, but still flirting. He started by showing interest, yet keeping distance. Working the mind, getting her to think rather than ruining it by moving too fast. He chose to have a slow hand.

He sends the gift, and when she calls him to say no, he basically doesn't take no for an answer. One of those old, cheesy, your lips say no but your eyes say yes kind of thing. And then he sets up a reason for Goldilocks to come see the Wolf. Of course she does.

She is at the hotel door, and says basically let's call it a night. He offers her a nightcap so to speak. Of course she accepts. Peggy is a lot more naive than we were led to believe, and Duck knew exactly how to play her to get what he wanted.

The question is: did he use business to get her in bed? Or, did he use getting her in bed to get business? Ponder that one, if you will...

Now Don/Betty:

Betty has now taken on a bit of Don and acts similar to him. She uses someone else's interest in order to start a deal. She's basically using looks and charm, like a certain someone we know. And just the fact that she's interested in taking a role in the group, again, the expansion of Betty even moreso. First taking responsibility in her father, then responsibility with the baby and now instead of horseback riding just to occupy her time she's trying to actually do something regarding this group.

But then where they're different is where they always have been. Don comes down to the new living room. (Is this where they had in the other episode Don complaining about "these pictures cost $3 a piece, and we all thought it was the baby's room?) He didn't contribute anything, yet rides in at the last moment, and wins because he just makes a suggestion and the designer loves it. Just like him and the kids, he rides in at the last moment and they celebrate him, much to Betty's ire.

Another Betty/Don thing is that he's getting more and more wrangled down here, yet she is becoming more and more expansive. She had a little control of the house (a house which is all his), and she is expanding by joining the group, expanding by her dealings with Henry. Tables turned a little bit here. Interesting.

So while Don is getting squeezed and Betty is getting a little more open, we have Don revisiting the teacher again. In the same scene we have Carlton talking about running, or should we say "running". The focus was on Don's face, not Carlton as Carlton was talking about..being alone.

Did you notice Don was late yet again for the meeting, and, all season long has been late for everything? (When he's not just getting up and leaving)

A couple interesting bits:
Season 1 Jim Hobart tried to go through Betty to get Don. Roger does the same thing here.

Do you see a parallel between Pete and Peggy, after Don gives Peggy the business? It was akin to, I know you want everything you want when you want it, but be patient.
Interesting because, like Pete, Peggy wants to be given things before she's earned them. Peggy definitely has all kinds of conflicts going on and just can't find an identity nor a way to fit in this world she's chosen.

Henry holding his hand over Betty's eyes, then seemingly wiping away. So many ways you can go with that.

And Henry/Betty in conjunction with Duck/Peggy: Flirting and business. Or business and flirting.

Either way, both very Don.

Peggy and Duck??? Ewwww ... what was she thinking? On the other hand, why is she holding out on working for Gray? It's not as if she's liked or appreciated at Sterling Cooper.

Guess this site is not working (as usual). Will check back another time. Cannot get anything I try to post on the board. I noticed a problem earlier in the day, and then suddenly 30 posts appeared all at once.

Score one Bert Cooper!!!

Funny about the note and "Your Welcome." Man draft dodger did not want to go to college because it was a waste of time. Too bad, because of course that was where he would have learned all about contractions.

Well I guess we know the motive behind 'hot for teacher's' drunk dialing. She'd probably been used and abused by other 'dads' and has started to act out. Just like one of her students.
Stay away from her Don! or you'll get more than you got in the motel room!

Oh, now it's working for me. That was weird before. I could not get it to work.

Thought the episode was better than the one last week by far. Conrad Hilton is odd but Don is acting even odder in my opinion. Betty looked great in her flowered dress and so did the living room of the Draper house all redecorated.

out of all of don's "women" i hate the teacher, not even sure why (?)

"you grow bullshit" hah!

Re the note left by the draft dodgers-

"Thanks for the help. We left you your car.
Your welcome"

MAD MEN DELIVERS! Before the show I thought what will tonight's shock be? And then pow, pow, pow - one shock after another. A classic! If this is the halfway mark, what will the finale be like?

If you thought Peggy and Duck was skeevy, wait until you get a load of Betty and Henry in bed.

I wonder how Don is going to react now that he's really tied down?

Peggy is very naive. Duck is using her. He will go to Don and mention it. She wants too much too soon - just like Pete.

Bert played the trump card. He's a sneaky old bastard!

And again, Peggy has chosen the rong boy, as she lamented to Kurt last season.

And she fell for that corny pick up line too, the kind you get when somebody wants to make your drawers. Yecch.

As we used to say back in the day, "Wanna get into my pants? What's your address -- I will mail them to you."

@I love Joan: Oh god, thanks for that picture!!

Why would Don take the phenobarbital? Sure, he was a bit tipsy from drinking (while driving no less) but to just take something some kid handed him seemed odd. Don seems to be losing his grip on things episode by episode.

Don was taken in a few ways this episode.
He thought he had drunk teacher on him like wet on water, but she reads him like a book and is outright hostile to him. Those kids certainly took him. And then there is SC (Roger, Bert, Hilton)...all pulled something over him.

In the haze of the drugs/booze, Don still knows he's being taken. His hallucinated Archie says so I believe, something like "even I couldn't be taken so easily by these people".

Is Dick losing his Don-ness? I kind of enjoyed that aspect of this episode.

Ta-town: That was absolutely priceless about the contractions!

Gross! Duck likes it in the morning and he talks dirty through his dentures!
You think Peggy wanted Don to notice she'd been wearing the same clothes from the day before? She lingered with the morning greeting.

MadMenSuze: Peggy does indeed choose the wrong men and it seems she makes many poor judgement calls at work and in the bedroom.

@Greg- Good insight. I wonder what will happen to Peggy re: Gray? Will Duck be the next blackmailer since Bert already used his ace with Dick/Don?

Sweetclover: Don is dumb enough to do anything -- remember when he picked up and ran off with Joy and joined the Eurotrash?

Geez,,Peggy & Duck never saw that coming & how about her going to work in same clothes. Poor Don
after having a bad day.. I knew picking up those hitchhikers was a bad idea! 723 was the date Don signed contract with Sterling Cooper. Miss Joan!

I think the significance of the eclipse in this episode is likening both Don and Betty to Icarus, who travelled too close to the sun and burned up...Betty is getting too close to the 'advisor' and may get burned by her actions, and Don seemed to get burned by Cooper, who knows enough of Don's background to know Don is already travelling outside of his circle, 'too close to the sun'.

Don is also getting too close to the teacher- who Francine's husband when reminiscing about young teacher Francine- compared to a 'totem' - the teacher is a harbinger for what is coming and she reads Don too well.

Ta-town: Don is showing such poor judgement (as is Peggy) lately. Picking up hitchers, drinking while driving, not signing his contract. And he acts as though his wife should be seen and not heard (more so than ever before). I think we will see Don implode at some point.

I think Jon Hamm has a clause in his contract that he can be the only hot guy on this show.

Does Don have an ace in the whole by the sheer fact that he is not actually Don Draper? Could he dispute, if need be, the contract that way? Of course, that would entail opening another very big can of worms.

@NeverNotTasty: I couldn't resist. Note the correct use of the contraction.

Duck wants Peggy? Oh, really -- him and what bottle of Geritol? Yecch!

She should have bidden him adieu after that "you have a secret relationship" comment.

Sweetclover: Don always seems to do things OOC or at least what I think his character is

@G. - I believe the note said, "Thanks for the help. We left you your car." I think it was signed but didn't catch that for sure.

I've been watching MM since the first season but have to admit I don't recall an event that would have led to the animosity that's grown between Don and Roger this season.

Don's insistence to Burt, as he's signing the contract, that he has no more contact with Roger could be put down to Roger's phone call to Betty, but it's been simmering for longer than just this episode and I can't pinpoint the start. What did I miss?

I do hope tonight's jumping back and forth in time isn't a new trend. I've never liked that device and didn't like it tonight. Nevertheless, a lot of juicy developments this time -- Is good old unassuming Burt in the catbird seat or what, and does he ever know it!

Question about the previews at the end: Clara tells Betty she might want to talk to Sally and says, "I keep talking to her about ...." what does she say? It sounded like "temp" but that makes no sense.

I did not like that antique that Betty bought. It looks awful in that room and it looks like she placed it right in front of the fireplace. What was she thinking? I would say just what the interior decorator said. " Don't tell anyone it was my idea!"
And at least now we know who was on the floor. Wow! Maybe now Don will stop hanging around with strangers. He could have been killed! Nah he's the star. They won't kill him off.

MadMenSuze: You're right. I forgot when he did that. He shows very poor judgement...and it's getting worse.

brutal edges ... a review

Inspiron: OOC? To me, Don is showing poorer and poorer judgement as each season's episodes progress. One day, he will come full circle and then he will implode.

@sab4ever: Don't you think she bought it because it reminds her of Henry? The way she was reclining on the couch the entire episode--in those flashbacks (or rather, flash-forwards), was somewhat erotic, and I don't think it was Don that was on her mind.

The more tightly Don gets tied down, the more likely he is to totally crack! It's coming people!!!

@inspiron- Teacher is creepy/stalker like? I don't like her either....why was Don so eager to prove he wasn't like other guys, but still flirty? To keep the door open, just in case?

@G- Don did the walk of shame too! Duck Dentures...ohhhhh nassssty!

@Nikita- EXCELLENT insight on the eclipse!

@jan01 I think it's "temper"?

I Love Joan: I think you're right about the Hamm clause. Funny. Roger isn't bad - he looks older than he really is in real life (I think it's the white hair), but Cooper and the rest of the male crew are not exactly eye candy, I agree.

MMJunkie: Thanks. I thought it was only me having problems with the site tonight.

Don was never too smart when it came to decisions – he took off when it was Sally’s birthday (and stiffed the kid out of her birthday cake), he did the same when he was drinking and driving the night he got into the accident with Bobbie and he just took off on a whim when he was in California. And he also wanted to run off to parts unknown with Rachel, right after Pete blew his cover and came out with his real identity.

Don/Dick’s veneer/shell/exoskeleton or what ever it is you wish to define it as is very very thin. He’s generally

Does anyone know who performed "Sixteen Tons" during the closing credits? It didn't sound like the Tennessee Ernie Ford version.

Don was never too smart when it came to decisions – he took off when it was Sally’s birthday (and stiffed the kid out of her birthday cake), he did the same when he was drinking and driving the night he got into the accident with Bobbie and he just took off on a whim when he was in California. And he also wanted to run off to parts unknown with Rachel, right after Pete blew his cover and came out with his real identity.

Don/Dick’s veneer/shell/exoskeletion or what ever it is you wish to define it as is very very thin. He’s 1000% undependable.

Duck is such a user and Peggy either does not see this or just likes to sleep around. I get the feeling she is easily seduced.
Betty on the other hand is a bit more coy, I think.

And Greg, you are absolutely right, the juxtoposition of Don and Betty is verreeee interesting; Don gets 'tied down' with the contract like Betty has been with kids, home, etc. Now Betty gets a little more free - if/when she has her affair, Don will be in no position to just walk out, as he has always done...

I missed it during the episode and the replay... What did the note the hitchhiking kids left him say?

I just remembered-seven twenty three-was the date Don signed the contract! 7/23/63.

MadMenSuze: True enough about Don.

I thought the teacher was coming on to Don. I have a feeling she comes on to a few of the fathers. I really don't like her. The worst part was when she talks to Don then goes and hugs Sally. Like, "Oh Sally I just adore you, and to prove it, I'm going to cause troiuble in your household that could effect the rest of your life."

Jan001: I agree. I don't see Roger as having done anything worth what Don is asking from Bert. It's also completely unrealistic. Is he asking that Roger be sidelined?

@Nikita, yes very good take on the eclipse, but I thought it may have something to do with blindness. Don and Betty are both still not aware of where they should be heading. They are both blind to each others lives and are both easily lead by strangers.

Good evening, fellow Maddicts!

Wow - Pete looked super scrupulous tonight! He's worried for Duck? Hmm, I'm tempted to think he's more worried that Peggy will get close to Duck? (Oops! He must have been visited by a prophetic muse.) It also seems he truly is feeling loyal to the firm with his continued insistence on not taking Duck up on his offer. Maybe I haven't given him enough credit, since earlier I thought he was basically just concerned for his job.

Poor Peggy- still so much of an outsider that she is susceptible to any sort of attention - and, oh, so sad she had no clue about her colossal bad timing in approaching Don about Hilton. Ouch! He does bite, and oh, yes, he has said no to her many times!

Have been reading zabadu's interesting interview with Matt Weiner and he says his character Pete is loyal and honest - so I will take his word for it! His statements are so helpful - I'm not somewhere in outer space with my ill-informed assumptions anymore! Wahoo!

Surprising that commitment phobic Don was called on the carpet by Connie! I've been frankly surprised that he has skated along this long without being forced into a contract. He got rolled literally and now I wonder if he will get figuratively rolled by the contract in some way. Anyone thinking that Ogilvy's burial date being the day Don signed the contract is significant? The death of Don Draper; the rebirth of Dick Whitman? Just the death knell of his career as an ad man?

Not real happy that both Don and Betty are skirting the edge of fidelity again, but it will be a difficult thing for them to get truly intimate in their marriage - they still know so little about each other! She is "uncomfortable" with Roger's call - I would be mad as a hatter not to have a clue about my husband's intentions regarding such a thing. I get the feeling she probably never knew he didn't have a contract.

Kudos to those who figured out the scarf, the giver, and the lack of significance of "are you suicidal?" :) And there was Don on the floor - thankfully NOT dead!

And those 2 kids he picked up wereindeed only kids; 19, my arse. I am willing to bet they were high schoolers. Yet another smart judgement on Don’s part.

@bshendricks For whatever it might be worth, I believe that was the Ernie Ford version (http://www.ernieford.com/ - song starts when the page loads), but he may have released different versions of it...?

bshendricks: SOunded like Tennessee Ernie Ford to me. Maybe it wasn't, but it sounded like him.

Ta-town... I dunno. That couch sure wouldn't make me think of sex...but that's just me. but then neither would that man.now .......David Selby ? Absolutely.! Sorry....

(To my fellow posters: I am no longer (attempting to) comment straight on the blog, as AMC has too many technical troubles, & they are refusing to fix them. Half the season is over, & I realize they were never serious about fixing the problems to begin with. As the show’s fans, WE ARE AMC’s LAST priority. I am tired of wasting my time. I will comment, during the show, off line, which is how I enjoy doing it, & then I’ll post. I apologize if I post anything someone posted earlier.

My blog comments:

Peggy to Pete: “I wish you’d stop barging in here & infecting me with your anxiety.” Pete whiney? No. Pete full of anxiety? Absolutely! 10 points to the poster who pegged Pete as “Full of free floating anxiety” last week! Good one. (Oh, wait. It was me.)

Notice how Pete shows underlying (Not!) concern for Peggy, in her office.

“Every time I turn around you have your hand in my pocket.” Could someone please scrap Peggy off the floor, & clean the blood off the front of her blouse? It’s called “Displaced Aggression”. It’s a defense mechanism, defined by Sigmund Freud. The example in Psych 101 is usually: “A man is yelled at by his boss, so he goes home & kicks his dog.” Roger came in & spoke, infuriating Don, & then leaving. Peggy becomes Don’s “dog” (& Betty). Peggy walked in at the wrong time/wrong place, and said the wrong thing. It’s 1963, & Freud is right again. I love it.

Say what you want, Don, but Peggy would be a pretty poor copywriter if she wasn’t trying to get on the Hilton account. But, I know you were only saying what you said to her because you are talking about the struggles within yourself.

Betty as the “dog”: “This doesn’t concern you. You’re taken care of.” and, “Let me explain business to you. Because, as usual, you are turning this around & making this about yourself.” Okay, Don deserved all he got. Ouch.

And, what was (left) in his wallet? Could someone please tell me what the note said? Didn’t they take his car? How did he get to Manhattan? Even if he took the train, how did he get to a train station? He didn’t have his monthly train ticket w/ him, or any $.

And, how many “fender benders” can Don have b4 people start to notice? Oh, that’s right, this is 1963.

Notice Peggy offering to get Don a cup of coffee. Sympathy? Or, acting as his secretary again? Oh, that’s right. This is 1963.

I like the talk that Pete and Don had about the North American Aviation account. It shows how Eisenhower's fear of the "military industrial complex" is already coming true. It shows me how the Vietnam War could have been more about landing contracts than fighting communism. How does that saying go, " the more things change...

Did anyone else notice Peggy was wearing the same blue dress at the beginning of the episode that she was wearing when she asked Don for a raise?...and she again repeated the red outfit(in which she slept with Duck the man who gave her an idea of how "opportunity looks like") the next day at work...just a thought.

@G and Nikita: Great points about the eclipse! I thought it was really funny how the children were all wearing those boxes over their heads in order to see the eclipse so as not to burn their retinas. Yet isn't that what the adults in this show have been wearing, figuratively? No one wants to look at things straight on--they want to, as Emily Dickinson said, look at things slant. Yet I think Don is beginning to come to some harsh realizations, as is Betty (see Greg's great discussion of her coming out of her "fog" in the last open thread).

The way the show uses light to represent the characters' psyches is interesting. We have had fog, a nightlight, a "closing the light," and now an eclipse. What next?

Rachel was the only one who saw right though Don when he wanted to run off with her.

Call me nuts, but I do not think Duck works for Grey at all.but do we actually see any real evidence that Duck indeed does work for Grey? The action in the Carlilsle is neither here nor there.

An important outfit like Grey would want to know why it is that Duck no longer works for SC, no? That’s my thoughts on it. Maybe he’s lying and he does not work for Grey at all. He could have mailed Pete and Peggy’s packages from anywhere – and I doubt very much if Duck would be dumb enough to have a Grey return addy on either or both those packages.

I'm going to check back another time. This site is just totally screwed up tonight. Will AMC ever get it together here? I don't think this site has worked right all season.

Anyway, good episode tonight. One of Season Three's best, in my opinion.

1st time here - love the show this season - Betty isn't nice to her kids Is she even worse to her kids since her dad died?

@sweetclover - wow, sorry about your bad experience. I so appreciate posters like zerelda and DeepDish and others who don't expect everyone can read (and remember) every single post and understand all the dynamics here. Welcome back, and I hope this time you will stick around.

Glad also to see hobocode back!

Oh, my, ending my second run through and hearing "16 Tons" - looks like Don thinks he's sold himself into bondage.

My head is still reeling! Matt, what on earth were you thinking - Peggy and Duck? the original Odd Couple.

Don was certainly touchy in this episode, except he was nice to the 2 kids who robbed him. I was sure he was going to leave SC and I'm disappointed he didn't. Now, what happens to Peggy? Is she going to spy on SC for Duck, or will she move over to his firm? Don was pretty nasty to several people in this episode and it may come back to bite him.

Ms. Farrell is certainly an odd one - she should be matched up with Duck.

Ewwwwwwwww, & I thought Guy getting his foot mowed off last week was gross. What Duck said to Peggy was absolutely revolting! I'm so sick.

What they are doing is even worse! Zsa Zsa, help!

Betty, back on the couch. And, it resembles the one in Freud's office, in Austria. Betty, move over. Don needs the couch much worse than you.

Umm... I don't want to stir up any trouble now...hold on don't get mad...but, could some of you blank avatar posters choose an image? It's a bit difficult to reference where I've left off while trying to catch up on the reading.
Now, don't give me that look! It's just a suggestion. I'll just sit here quietly while you think it over.

@amybett "Temper" - that makes sense. Thank you!

@inspiron @amybett I think the teacher knows exactly what she's doing and is playing Don. If he doesn't keep his distance she's liable to accuse him of something, or maybe it's too late for that.

Don taking not one but two pills from total strangers in the middle of the night strained credibility for me a little bit. Or maybe we're just seeing that who he is at work and who is away from work are really starting to polarize. If so, he can't keep it up forever.

@Racy: Great comments about displaced aggression and Peggy. The same thing happened when she asked Don for a raise, a few episodes ago, right after he and Pryce had it out over the budget.

@PixiDust: I did notice the dress that Peggy re-wore. She has done that a few times this season, and I love it because of the attention to detail paid by the show. In the real world, she couldn't afford to wear a new dress every day.

Racy: the shrink/couch connection is what I thought of, also.

and that corny corny line...ugh, Peggy: how COULD you???

Pull her clothes off with his teeth? While in his mouth or while they're soakin' away in denture goo in a cup? HAHA!

what month, day and year was jfk killed?

Even though Don bawled Peggy out, his point may be valid. Since "basket of kisses" what has Peggy done that someone else couldn't do? Popsicle....maybe?

@madmensuze - maybe Duck soaks his dentures IN whiskey!

@MadMenSuze: Peggy called Gray and asked for Duck. And she got him. Now do I get to call you nuts?

And gee, Racy, Donny sure is accident prone: a fender bender twice. He gave Gross Jimmy some kind of an excuse, too, for his broken arm (courtesy of the drinking and driving jaunt with Jimmy’s missus).

Such tough luck he has, eh?

Don was drinking and he was angry when he picked up those kids. You know you do stupid things when you're drinking.... it's like "you have no brain". I think he was letting loose after a really bad day but his judgement was very poor. Two pills and several drinks ,I don't know much about phenobarbitol. sounds dangerous. Don became Dick.?

Okay, Never, you got me. I forgot she called Gray.

So will the new name of the firm be Sterling, Cooper, Draper & Whitman?

Okay...great comments so far. As for Peggy's dress...she has the same dress on because she has just come from the Pierre...didn't have time to change
Did anyone notice when Betty was first calling Henry Francis and she is sitting at Don's desk....after the call, she pulls at Don's secret drawer...and as usual can't get it open....hilarious!!!

jan001----I also thought Don taking the two "reds" was a little far fetched for Don....but he must feel totally out of control now...

Why is everyone so against the age difference between Duck and Peggy. There is the same difference b/w Roger and Jane. The man is middle-aged, not elderly, so what's with the denture remarks?

Peggy broke the single woman cardinal rule: never get caught, at work, wearing the same clothes you left in, the day b4. And, if Peggy keeps finding a guy to sleep with every night, she won't have to pay for an apt. in Manhattan.

@MadMenSuze: Of course, because you & I are related!

@SCfan: I win a prize, it's yours. I just tried your F5 key suggestion, posted up top.. Thank-you isn't saying enuf. I am 4ever in your debt. Have you any other magic tricks?

@sab - mixing booze and barbiturates is NEVER a good idea....phenobarbitol and liquor killed Abbie Hoffman (suicide).

John F. Kennedy was killed November 22, 1963 on a Friday. So 4 months from this episode, and the day before Roger's daughter's wedding.

@jacklq - JFK was killed on 11/22/63.

That was not Ernie Ford singing at the end. I don't know who it was, but Ernie had a deep bass voice smooth as honey. God, that song brought back memories - we used to sing that in the movie theater while we were waiting for the show to start.

This site is moving at a glacial pace - AMC, please break loose with some pesos and update your servers!

Holy Moly! Of course my comments didn't get in right away, so sorry if you think I'm repeating others.
Duck and Peggy?? EWW.
Peggy telling Pete, "Stop coming in herre and infecting me with your anxiety." Too funny.
Two different power houses sitting AT Don's desk.
What's going to happen with Don and Roger?
Sunday night 10 p.m. til next Sunday night at 9 p.m. that long, annoying time between Mad Men episodes! Y'all have a good week! :)

I never thought I'd say Duck and hot in the same sentence ... Duck was hot ! Good for you Peggy ! I was in that position but was so busy playing video games that the "opportunity" went over my head. I even had the morning shot and still missed out !
A lot of lessons being taught in this episode : don't look into an eclispe,dont look a gift horse in the mouth, don't bite the hand that feeds you, respect your elders, don't pick up hitchhikers, don't judge a book by it's cover.

@Nevernotasty- It's not about age, Duck is a conniving, manipulative, sleazy drunk. The denture jokes are just icing on top of the nasty cake. You're right he's prob. not old enough for them.

Duck's true colors are really showing in this episode. That expensive scarf he sent to Peggy was probably a freebie since he said Grey had the Hermes account. The Cuban cigars are probably some he's had around for a long time.

Peggy didn't have much contact with Duck while he was at Sterling, so, it may be that since she's had this rather open relationship with Don, she thinks Duck will be up front with her, too. But I think her need for attention is much stronger than her common sense. It was uncomfortable, as someone else has mentioned, to see them together. There was no passion in either of them...just need and sex, IMHO. I think if Duck ever has an opportunity, he will use this escapade against Peggy.

Bert shocked me the way he got Don to sign. It was quite a picture: Don visibly bruised and battered having to give in to the shoeless "old man".

Funny, though, when Don came home and announced he had signed the contract. Betty didn't even get up to look at him. Too lost in her own fantasy, probably.

Let's face it, Betty you too.
Don doesn't (didn't) know where he'll be in three years.

He invites that Midge woman to run away to Paris, then gets high with her hippy friends. He confesses to Rachel while falling in love. He gets mixed up with that poison, Bobbie, against his initial instinct. He runs away from his job and responsibilities in California.
What else?... other stuff too!

It was in complete character for him to get 'rolled' by those kids. The question is, when will he find what he's looking for?

@BBK:i know why she was wearing the dress again,but what im trying to convey is the "back story" of the dress,in the red dress she was offerd opportunity in the blue one she was denied.

@Ta-Town:she has re worn dresses but not with such proximity of each other..just thought that was and underlining significance point out.

Good night to you all this site is worse than other times,I'll read you all some other time.

@BBK:i know why she was wearing the dress again,but what im trying to convey is the "back story" of the dress,in the red dress she was offerd opportunity in the blue one she was denied.

@Ta-Town:she has re worn dresses but not with such proximity of each other..just thought that was and underlining significance point out.

Good night to you all this site is worse than other times,I'll read you all some other time.

It's RosaL again. Ha! Anybody still want to say that politics is irrelevant to this show??? Those kids aren't draft dodgers, they're doing something perfectly legal, and the guy hasn't of course been drafted yet. And everybody else who was classified IA had to decide what to do, too--volunteer for the military so as to be assigned somewhere besides Vietnam, join the National Guard, whatever. (Because if you went to Vietnam there was a pretty good likelihood you might be killed.) Two slogans from the period: "Girls say yes to men who say no! " And one that Don might have considered before he picked up those hitchhikers: "Don't trust anybody over thirty!" (or in this case, UNDER thirty!)

It's RosaL again. Ha! Anybody still want to say that politics is irrelevant to this show??? Those kids aren't draft dodgers, they're doing something perfectly legal, and the guy hasn't of course been drafted yet. And everybody else who was classified IA had to decide what to do, too--volunteer for the military so as to be assigned somewhere besides Vietnam, join the National Guard, whatever. (Because if you went to Vietnam there was a pretty good likelihood you might be killed.) Two slogans from the period: "Girls say yes to men who say no! " And one that Don might have considered before he picked up those hitchhikers: "Don't trust anybody over thirty!" (or in this case, UNDER thirty!)

@PixiDust: Oh I agree! You make a great point here--I was just excited that you noticed, too!

BBK -I noticed the "drawer" thing too and thought it only added to her anger towards him/distrust.

@Jan001: The word was "temper" (Sally's)

@angiebells and ANYONE else who thinks Duck is hot: SORRY if my opinion of Duck offends those who find his brand of manliness appealing. Seriously, Duck just doesn't turn my crank, I don't want to run down anyone's good Duck vibe, and I absolutely don't want my nasty opinion of Duck keep anyone from commenting *sorry*

I've been pretty hard on Betty, but now, holy cow, I have to take a second look. Don is more selfish than I realized (or allowed myself to see). But he's still gorgeous.

Hi folks,
Here are some quick thoughts on tonight's episode-

Notice how Henry played Betty. She thought she had the upper hand because he agreed to meet her, and suggested a trip-alone-to the reservoir--then it turns out he only had an hour and never intended to go--she wants him more than he wants her--Betty is not very smart, for example the comment about "the master" which she says she got but really didn't--and she is VERY cold--no hearth in her house! No one gathers there and there's no center of warmth. What does she finally put in place of the hearth? A fainting couch on which she can fantasize sex with someone other than Don.

Peggy and Don both show up wearing the clothes from the day before, Don hasn't shaved, I'm sure it registered on them both.

Perhaps Miss Farrell is irritated with Don because he didn't respond to her drunken phone call of two episodes ago-

I was ten during that eclipse, and had one of those big boxes. I remember watching in the back yard of our house in Chicago.

@PixiiDust----Yes, your point was excellent about the red vs. blue dresses.....sorry about my comment

Seven twenty-three – also known as the episode where Don got screwed! By Burt, by the hitch-hikers, by the teacher (though not in the way he might want), and by Betty. Don’s lost his mojo and though he may fight it, he does not have all the power.

What’s with Don? He’s too much of a sissy to sign a contract, so he takes it out on Peggy for jumping the gun with some copy for Hilton? Peggy is acting as ambitious as Pete (who tried to get his foot in the door with Hilton earlier in the episode), but he snapped at her in a much worse way. He threw her right at Duck without even knowing it. And Duck was the Casanova that swept her off her feet?! That’s even less sexy than burger boy! Is this because she can’t have Don?

At least Betty has grown a spine. She rips Don for keeping things from her, as she should. He likes keeping all the power, and doesn’t want to be fenced in, but he has a wife and kids –it’s already done, Don baby, so get over it!

And best line of the night - Bert on Connie Hilton - "I met him once, he’s a bit of an eccentric, isn’t he?" The look on Roger's face was hilarious after that. But Burt’s right about Don. They’ve nurtured his talent and given him everything, so he owes it to them. And then he pulls out the big guns by mentioning that he knows “something” about Don. Has Don by the shorties he does!

@jan001......Carla said she had been meaning to talk to Betty about Sally's temper.

I also did not think Sixteen Tons sounded like Tennessee Ernie Ford's recording of the song, but man what a perfect song to end this episode.

Can you believe Coop blackmailed Don? Did anybody see that coming?

I'm thinking that the meaning of Don saying to Bert "I don't want any contact with Roger" is just that Bert had him over a barrel because he knew who Don really was. Hearing that, Don knew he was basically powerless, and feeling even more so from the events of the night before, he showed his anger in this way. After all Roger had called his wife behind his back and his anger has been growing against him for reasons that are somewhat mysterious.
However it seems untenable for Bert to enforce this "no contact"
verbal clause.

Ta-town girl: YES those multiple awkward scenes will be dissected for wks and wks to come. WOW. Peggy and Duck being so horny: AWKWARD incarnate. . .A "SURPRISE" dontcha think!? And YES, Betty BOUGHT the Victorian Fainting-couch BECAUSE she is utterly infatuated w/ Henry Francis. Sooo obvious. She is YEARNING for him in some capacity, and we shall see that play out however MW decides us to. Interesting to see where she'll put it next-rather than in front of the fireplace as per her Decorator's admonitions!

LOVED that Suzanne Farrell-Sally's teacher, remarked that all of the DADS dress the same! Onto the Homogeneity and Conformism that Capitalism demands: from the SUCCESSFUL?

I DARE ANYONE TO DISAGREE since I WORK IN IT. The labels and designer brands that I sell to eek out a scant livelihood that are CONVERSELY so IMPORTANT to the PURCHASERS, speaks LOUDLY about Class, Image, if not (some imagined-hypothetical/Elitist) Social order.

CHANEL: my goddess, posthumous mentor, and corporation I wd like to work for: recently (again!) took out a full-page AD in "Women's Wear Daily" (a rag-trade journal that I read every day-as per a delightful job-requirement) warning that anyone making a comparison or allusion to something being/seeming/looking like CHANEL: if it were NOT CHANEL, to take heed. CHANEL's lawyers are ready to take DOWN anyone who makes a claim that s'thing is in the "Style" of CHANEL or is "CHANEL-esque" if it is not a licensed product of "CHANEL." I can no longer profess to dress ala CHANEL in my lazy daily uniform of black and white attire!?

What I was trying to say in a Squirrel Nutkin's nutshell was that BRANDS are BIG BUSINESS and not things to treat lightly unless you are consuming them; otherwise if you question or copy, you are in a huge quandry w/ lawsuits and lawyers and copyright infringements:Yuk.Yuk.Yuk!

I've got a wonderful HERMES anecdote from when I was (briefly) living in Rome, but now it is awkward and "Harvey Wallbanger" my pet blind albino peacock is having a loud, screeching war w/ a badger!?

-GREG: "Miss You"- Love-You! RACY TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVE YA MADDICTS! CHEERS!

@RosaL - Politics are relevant to the show! I just wonder if the board can survive while discussing them?
Not sure if distributing barbiturates without a prescription is legal? Stealing from a wallet is illegal.
However, I do agree that the fake scenario the kids presented could not be called "draft dodging" as marriage would have been a legal way "out" of Vietnam.

anyone notice that when Peggy calls Duck's Gray office (which rings thru to the suite at the Pierre??), she says she's calling "regarding Clorox" - which is a Mad Men sponsor.

G: Consider it done. Choosing an avatar. Actually, I have been trying to choose one for a day or so now and this site is so unresponsive I was unable to. Now it works. Also, came back on after I signed out because no new posts were appearing. Since I was last here, 40 more posts showed up but it seemed like they all came on together. Ugh, this site. Okay, all from me on the rigors of this.

Great show tonight. I thought it was TEF singing Sixteen Tons. If not, who was it?

I'm confused about the timeline. Didn't they tell Don to think about it (the contract) over the weekend? So he showed up Monday ('fender bender") and signed. So was Peggy wearing the dress again on Monday? I must be off - MW would not make that kind of mistake.

amybett: I thought one had to have both a wife and baby to get out of going to Nam. I knew someone whose wife had a child to avoid the draft. They were going to have to go, but then they quickly conceived a baby and that was their ticket out. Great reason to have a child. Not.

Something in particular that made me grin in this episode was Betty's way of answering the phone at home, "Draper residence". I was 11 in 1963 and my younger sister and I were told to answer the phone exactly that way.

No, not "Draper" - you know what I mean. ~8)

That was also when we were taught to ask, "May I say who's calling?" when someone asked for either of our parents.

I love MM's attention to those kinds of details.

Great episode Just want to say first off It is 150% Tennesee Ernie Ford
@Racy "displaced aggression," absolutely, but what do you call Peggy's ability to always ask for something at the absolutely worst time. She should tip Don's secretary(a keeper there) to find out when he is in a good mood. Wait a sec, scratch that idea.
@ G I agree, the use of an avatar makes it easier to keep track of a posters overall personality on the site. We should have an avatar contest. Your avatar gets my vote for funniest. Sexiest I LOve Joan or DeepDish, sorry Zerelda your av doesn't make the cut.
@BBK definitely noticed the try Betty made at the locked desk drawer. The way this episode went for DD I am surprised it didn;t open.
Did anyone catch the Jai-Alai Ho-Ho- reference. Caught it on second viewing. Funny. Also found the mousketeers fawning over Conrad Hilton amusing.
We finally see what a sharp cookie Cooper is. Enjoyed his calling Hilton a bit of an eccentric. Everyones reaction was priceless. Old Lane is becoming Americanized, drinking with the boys. Guess his loyalty to the British Masters is waning. Glad to see no sign of Lois. Maybe Hooker got fired too for that incident.

zabadu said - "Did anyone find it odd that the teacher that "drunk dialed" Don was all "I'm no floozy" tonight?"

I really felt she was projecting all over Don. She read into every small thing he said as if it was suggestive. I felt she was trying to regain her dignity after the "drunk dial" as well as projecting her own desires onto him. And of course with Don, she was probably at least half correct! ;)

Chopin47: Sounded like TEF to me. Would like to know who it was if not him. Wonder if it's in the credits.

@Deep Dish
Monday- Don snaps at Peggy.
Don gets rolled, Peggy f*cks a duck.
Tuesday- Walks of shame for both, and Don sells out.

If anyone else writes any more complaints about "the mutual admiration society" that he/she believes exist on this blog, I promise you, I'm going to gag. And, it won't be pretty. Remember Roger in the SC reception area? (NANCY, help me! B4 I kill a new poster, & send him/her running to his/her kids for protection!)

@DryManhattan: While reading through the blog, I just read your, "You will soon learn who here is unstable." line, & I got my first "laugh out loud at a line" on the blog tonight. Thanks. (You are too much.)

hello!
Read most of the great comments don't have much time, supposed to be studying but here are my favorite parts of tonight's episode:

I loved that Connie's issue sounded at first like he had a problem being faithful to his wife but turned out to be about his business life....either way Don is NOT the person to ask about what to do when tempted by the fruit of another. I also found it interesting that Don is now the "person on the side" that Connie will share his dreams with.

Connie telling Don that young people are important and give us energy.(or something like that) We all know how much Don values the young'uns

Loved Roger's idea for a book entitled:1,000 reasons why I'm great, or something to that effect.

Peggy telling Pete to stop infecting her with his anxiety. She is so sassy now! love it...

Ewww!!!!! Peggy sleeping with Duck...now she's really becoming untied from Sterling Cooper and possibly Pete...

Peggy resting on her new "fainting couch" previously used by Victorian women who were "overwhelmed" from corsets and such....I remember learning about how women of that time were usually pretty unhappy and would go and see their doctors to get "exams" that were supposed to relieve their stress ...they were akin to pelvic exams....aI also remember learning about the prescriptions frequently given to middle class womn of the vistorian era These meds made them very happy and at peace with their lives. I got my info from a sociology class I took ages ago, s forgive me if I'm jumbling some of my facts.....

Think Don seems to be losing the control he craves.Which is why he felt the need to rake poor Peggy over the coals sending her running into the older, creepy arms of Duck. He had to witness two different people sitting behind his desk as if he were visiting his own office. And cooper strong-armed him into signing a contract "shot-gun wedding" style. 7-23 is the day Don became committed . that contarct is probably more binding than his marriage certificate....

Ducks comment about Peggy "really being Don's girl" seems like he thinks Don and Peggy slept together and he's trying to compete...

Betty's political advisor guy is creepy...

Sally's teacher is unstabl, unsettling and doesn't play the game very well...Don made her look silly.....

Francine saying its not adorable to pretend you're not adorable

Betty handlin' bizness with Roger on the phone....

Okay back to studying, can't wait to see what everyone else has to say

i loved the fainting couch! But, did you noitice that Don didn't even loook at it when he came in? He so didn't care...

Jan001: Yes, I too recall answering the phone in the same manner. I don't think I have ever heard any kids answer this way for decades now.

@barkless "Clorox" was a code word Duck and Pete were using when talking about how Duck's trying to get him and Peggy away from SC. I don't remember a scene where either Pete or Duck told Peggy that specifically, but Pet could have told her about it "off camera".

Watching it for the third time, in the commercial break about 25 minutes in, there was an Expedia commercial. Maybe I've gotten a little too involved in MM, but I could swear the voice-over in that commercial was Pete Campbel/Vincent Kartheiser!

What’s with that teacher? Teachers and administrators usually take July off and spend at least the 2nd part of August getting ready for school. She seemed overly familiar with Don and was sending mixed messages after drunk dialing him. At first she calls him at home at night, then she accuses him of being like all the other “drinking and philandering” fathers who come on to her. What does she want from him?

@Sweetclover, thanks! And such a pretty face you have.
I've had my share of postinteruptus, and it can be quite annoying after I'd written some zingers to make me nod my head with conceited pride.

@sweetclover - You may be right about the baby thing....I didn't live through these times after all. Perhaps I'll wait for the experts to weigh in on Draft Dodging....

@hobocode- ha! mousketeers!

@ all, two things:

1. Grey (a dinosaur of an ad agency that is still around today), is spelled with an "e" not an "a".

2. Since day one of this series Don Draper has ALWAYS been wreckless and made bad decisions. This kind of behavior is par for the course with this guy and nothing new:

• He bangs everything in sight (except his wife), repeatedly putting himself and his family in harms way.
• He was ready to leave his family at the drop of a hat and run off to Europe with his mistress.
• He drinks and drives regularly, once flipping a car while boozing it up behind the wheel, accompanied by someone's wife (who by the way he also happened to be banging.)
• He never met a stranger he wouldn't trust with his life. Remember the rich California Euro Gypsies?
• Every time anyone has ever offered him a drug (usually a stranger or new aquaintance) he has accepted it: marijuana, pills and of course any and all libations.
• He regularly disappears from family and work for hours, days or weeks at time (usually to participate in some wreckless activity) without explanation, remorse, or apology.
• And as Bert Cooper reminded Don tonight -- dude stole a dead guy's identity to get out of the Army!

Of course this list just scratches the surface with this guy. There's been plenty more over the last two and a half seasons.

To me the only good decisions Don ever makes are in meetings with clients, or one on one with his kids. Otherwise he's a hot mess 24/7. I'm surprised so many of you guys are caught off guard by his poor decision making tonight. Because driving drunk, picking up hitchhickers, taking double the drugs they offer you, watching them make-out in a scuzzy hotel, having his head bashed in, getting rolled by two illiterate losers, and barely leaving with your Caddy and your life -- why that's new, that's just another day in the life of our Don Draper.

NeverNotTasty: Yes, those denture remarks are off base. But I think because of the generational gap here, some posters feel anyone over 40 is old. It is. That is until you actually reach 39, then it doesn't seem old at all. Middle age isn't old until one actually finds themselves at that point. And surely, not every older person wears dentures. Where did that one come from, I wonder? My own father is in his mid-eighties and has all his own teeth. And they look great.

@jackiq...you're right he ijust had a "whatever" expression on his face ...very detached

G: I do, don't I? So pink, so fluffy. Perfect for the cover of a magazine. Love your Jan Brady too. Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!

@Msirvin I liked Francine's "adorable " line as well. The actress playing Francine is fantastic, so believable.---------
I think Betty is way more infatuated with Henry. He is a smart guy, and like Cooper,patient. He will play the Betty card when it suits him, he does have her phone#. Brought back memories to hear a phone # with a word prefix for the first two digits. WI for wilson and 5 numbers instead of seven. Mine was PResident. My favorite was HYacinth. I guess they had to come up with some strange ones to cover the number combinations.

amybett - EWE!! DUCK!! LOL, my sentiments exactly! How awkward was all that?

Also, your observation about the teacher in summer and her comment that she only had August
off and then went back? I suppose, if she's doing summer school, but for a whole group of 10-year-olds who don't appear as if they'd flunked anything?

Also, good call on everyone sitting in Don's chair. It was too surreal to see Connie sitting behind Don's desk like he owned SC and was calling an employee on the carpet. "I've summoned you here to my office..." Weird.

LuckySrike: Yes, someone else brought up the fact that Don has always been reckless and made unwise decisions. I had forgotten some of his earlier debacles in Seasons one and two. I think soon he will make one too many bad decisions and the s*** will hit the fan and he won't be able to stop it.

@jan001, the guy narrating the Expedia ad is the actor who played the little nerdy producer on 'Murphy Brown'.
I don't feel like looking up his name, but it's him.

@hobocode
I know ! hearing that was jarring for a second. I'd forgotton that phone numbers were ldone that way.When /why did that change?

Know what was really great upon second viewing?

You know how from day 1, how the 3 main characters this has been about have been Don, Peggy and Betty?

All the lying down sequences tonight were focused on Peggy, Don, Betty.

So a few episoeds ago, unrelated to tonight, we had a structural concept of 3 when we had the 3 parties. Now separately, we have again, another visit of the idea of 3.

Coincidence? What then? Ponder people, let's hear it!

Racy: You like the (sometimes ill) inside scoop on men and motivations, seriously I think I dissected Duck pretty good, scroll up and check out what I thought was really going on.

Your FANCYness: totally got "miss you", you tumbling dice, you.

amybett: Yes, I think you did need to have a child (or one on the way) to avoid going to Nam. Just being married didn't cut it. A shame really, that people would conceive a child solely to avoid the draft. Not that I would have wanted to go if I had been a guy, but there has to be a better reason to have a baby that this, at least in my opinion. My husband had a very low draft number back then and would have had to go but that he was a full-time college student. Whew!

I don't recall that being married or even having a child kept you out of the draft. I knew guys who were married and had kids that went to Nam.

@G. - Miles Silverberg/Grant Shaud!! I >loved

I miss Joan

@Lucky Strike: "Gray" was a typo. I once worked as an intern at Campaign magazine, so I know my ad agencies.

@Msirvin I would guess it changed in the mid seventies app. I can only speculate that there were so many numbers at some point, they needed to use all numbers for the first 2 digits and certain combinations didnt lend themselves to words ie: 7pqrs and 9wxyz. I am sure we have somone who knows for sure, so I better make my dumb guess now.

@Lucky Strike......Don did not steal an identity to keep from going to War. He was in combat in the War with his CO, who was killed. That's when he stole his identity

Just saw that what I thought was a signature on the card from the kids who rolled Don actually said, "Your welcome" (with "your" spelled that way) under "We left you your car."

@hobocode Thanks,....you're right someone on here knows something
hey who do you think Don's talking to on the next episode when he says I wont have my heart broken? Maybe Rachel is coming back? she's the only one he ever seems vulnerable with....

Also, don't laugh but...how do I get an avatar?

One tiny thing: When Don signs the contract, he puts the date down as 7-23-1963. The way I remember it, the four-digit year didn't come into common usage until near/after 2000. In mid-century, the "19" was totally understood and unnecessary in written dates, and virtually never used. Does anyone else remember it this way, or differently?

I'm surprised they are calling phenobarbital "reds" on here. "Reds" was the slang for the drug Seconal, IIRC.

Part of me thinks; lets face reality, someone like Don Draper/Dick Whitman, mother a prostitute, father an abusive a$$hole, who grew up being told he was worthless garbage is going to be at least halfways a big jerk. I mean he's got both nature and nurture going against him!

msirvin - Go to the top of the screen where it says "edit profile" and click. It will give you an option to enter a picture from your computer as an avi.

Thanks!!

Are we to assume that the new living room furniture was just installed that morning as Don sees it for the first time?
What interior decorator (she's no designer) has the capabilities to arrange for delivery before 9 am?
It was nice, but I would have hoped Betty would steer away from the traditional style.
Maybe she'll go modern when she gets a few more indiscretions under her corset.

Seconal is a "barbital". Phenobarbital is called Nebutal, but the are both barbitals.

I might be looking too hard for another JFK foreshadow but the way that the draft dodger knocked out Don in the back of the head reminds me of how the final bullet that took out Kennedy at Dealey Plaza. And then came the blood just like the last two episodes. Of course when you look at the Zapruder film it's more like, "Back and to the left back and to the left".

--------------------------------------------------------------
"afterall when it comes down to it, who's really signing this contract ANYWAY. "
So Bert used his knowledge of Dick-Don to get what he wanted.

Poor Peggy, falling into bed will always bring nothing but trouble for her, on the otherhand I didn't know Duck had it "in" him.
The show always gets more interesting when Duck is in scenes.

I love Betty's swoon chair.
The designer being angry made me laugh.

Betty saying "freeze" to the kids,..."classic."

The hillbilly in Don will always talk to him, which is probably a good thing.

Don getting a standing ovation from the staff after Conrad Hilton departs.....classic.

Phenobarbital , Don's a player!

G: I am not trying to start anything, but when I have to read lengthy posts about how people were offended when corrected or told to go read posts, for someone to say that dentures were not to be mentioned just seemed ridiculous.

If you want people to play nice, play nice yourself. That's all I'm saying.

I can't hear you...

This episode was about Don being taken off his high horse. That's why he took Peggy off of hers.
I think she kind of deserved that. It is 1963 for heaven's sake, what more does she expect.

I tolerated Betty better than last week. At least she didn't have time to be so horrible to her children.

Pete knew what Duck wanted before Peggy did and in his own way, was trying to tell her to stay away. But she is a naive one, but I can't believe she was so stupid to fall for that line, especially from Duck. Hasn't she learned her lesson yet.

Don needs to be taken down a few more knotches, he is entirely to full of himself. I was really glad that he seemed to start behaving like a parent in earlier episodes, but this thing with the kids and the drugs was nuts. I can't believe he fell for their shennanigan's.

Roger's line: "Didn't we give you an office?" was hilarious

The designer told Betty "the hearth is the sould of the home" or something like that. And what does she do, puts a huge antique fainting couch right in front of the fireplace, as if to say "i'm the soul of the home, it's all about me." She really needs to grow up. Sometimes its like Don has 4 children.

No one will care but other Northwest folks, but I spotted 2 Washington state references in this episode:

1) Pete talks about the weird sport account and says, "Ho-Ho wants it everywhere. He just bought land in Seattle - it's an indoor city."
2) Don and the kids were drinking Rainer beer (known as 'Vitamin R' to the locals) at the icky motel. Rainer beer is manufactured in Olympia

@Hanna: I believe they were drinking Rhinegold beer, but I'll have to check before being sure. I just remember thinking "ah, Rhinegold"...

Wow, Peggy is turning into a nasty little skank! Duck? And, then after they wake up she kisses him and let's him pound her with bad morning breath, and his own juices fermenting in her sperm resceptacle. Gross! Betty, I can't stand. What an ungrateful Hobag. She's one of those people that's miserable, and wants everyone around her to be miserable. Complain, Complain, Complain. She'd make any man's johnson jump back in the nutsack after a few rounds of that tongue. What, Roger needs, is for Don to clean his clock. I can also see Don killing old Man Cooper, now that Cooper has actually Blackmailed him. Maybe he'll have a stroke or a Heart Attack in front of Don, and Don will help it along by covering the old buck tooth jack asses mouth. That would be a great episode.

…have to jot down these thoughts before I do my homework and read the others’ posts.

Betty - the “Juney League,” por supuesto! I didn’t see that one coming, but it’s so Betty, so suburbia, so class conscience. Next step for Betty is organizing the Ossining/Tarrytown Juney League Cookbook!

And EEEUUUWWW on the following:

Miss Farrell and Don…drinks, philandering, conversation, CREEPY!!!! YUK!
Peggy and Duck, DOUBLE- EEEUUUWWW, DOUBLE-CREEPY, and I so need a shower!

This episode was so “X-File’ish” and didn’t we all miss the 723 inference? In all the posts, I didn’t see one mention of contract signing.

Okay, now I have some homework to do…

S2

Do you think Duck had a Trojan in his wallet? Old guys, did you carry rubbers with you back then, or did that start in 1967 when everyone went about half naked?

s2inLA: 723 was the date Don had to sign the contract. 7/23/63.

@ratched yes reds were Seconal, and there was also Tuinal (blue) and a yellow pill though I can't remeber the name. they were all phenobarbatol in varying dosages if I recall correctly. just a generic vs brand name type thing so common today like tylenol and acetomeniphen. i think the blueTuinal was the most powerful and the yellow one was weakest. "reds was probably most popular. nobody worth their salt would bother with valium, so weak compared to the barbituates, and they were in so many bathroom medicine cabinets. the same parents who wound up dissaproving of all the drugs that came along later were flying high on all these Mothers Little Helpers.Plus alcohol. Sort of a more modern version Of Deadwood's Alma Garrett and her Laudanum addiction. All these "hysterical " educated women needed to be sedated or something terrible would happen. Like the feminist movement for example. Just kidding folks,, but feel free to take any part of this post out of context and blast me at your convenience.

Good theory on the jfk foreshadowing. Maybe the whole season is foreshadowing the events of nov 22, 1963. I wonder who's "head will be blown up" when that episode rolls around. I think that will be the season finale episode.

The fainting couch certainly did not go with that contemporary living room

I get the feeling that "teacher" is a drama princess or little bit psycho.
I hope Don steers clear of her.

Francine's husband introduced "running" to Mad Men, when he was talking to Don at the Eclipse viewing?

Seconal and phenobarbital both are classified as a barbiturate but Seconal was the barbiturate that was "packaged" in a red capsule, thus the nic "reds". Phenobarbital is usually just a white tablet.

Childof60s: So did I, but that was their choice to go. You got a waiver if you were married with a child. But again, you could choose to go and probably did if you were a career officer. I am talking about guys were were just plain drafted. If you were in college and had a good GPA or again, married with child, you did not have to go but could if you wanted to. I knew several people who had children to avoid going.

Hobocode, I remember Tuinal being referred to as "trees" back in the day. It was the early 70's, but I remember "reds" and "trees" being pretty prevalent at the local drive-ins. Odd that I can remember.

G: Amen!

ratched: Correct. My father used to have to take phenobarbital on a daily basis. White tablet.

Yay! I have an avatar..... thanks hanna

@ s2inla...I actually did mention the 7-23 reference although I was suprised I wasn't the 1ooth person to say it...I'm ususally a little late

G: Both sex and condoms in wallets were going hot and heavy long before 1967! Nothing new there.

@msirvin, nice! My favorite scene from Season one.

@racy4....glad the F5 key worked (to refresh) Actually another Maddict posted that in another thread (wish I remembered who, but thanks!) and I tried it.... so idea not original with me....I'm "computer literate" just enough to get in trouble! lol?

Glad it helped, though, and no, don't have any other tricks....other than to try disabling your flash (if you have slowness issues here)....it worked for me.

I am a big fan of THE SHOW. not a fan of any particular characters. Of course I am manipulated each show into feeling differently about the characters by what happens. Well after tonight I have to say Don Draper , You are the man.
Lucky Strike in your 1:39 post you made some observations that crystralized Don for me.
I love this guy. He doesn't turn down anything. Hop in a car with strangers in Cali, sure why not. Smoke some herb with the beatniks, right on man. Pop a couple of reds, why not. Smoke em up. Drink like a fish.The wife gives you a hard time, right out the door. My hero. I can't wait until LSD comes around and Don says "Give me two, they are so small". We should get the whole story if that ever happens.

@Sweetclover, thanks, but I can't imagine Duck always ready for action...unless he had Peggy in his sights since that lunch date.

Amybett:

Yeah see that's the thing, was Duck just being lonely loser, or was he trying to be Don and has something greater, business, in mind in going for and getting Peggy? Or, are they just two lonely individuals?

Nikita ava:

you saying "Don will be in no position top just walk out"
It all comes down to contracts doesn't it? The contract of marriage and the contract of SC. Don doesn't heed either of them well....

I missed some earlier episodes in season one and two. Please refresh my memory. WHO IS RACHEL?

I get the feeling that "teacher" is a drama princess or little bit psycho. I hope Don steers clear of her, because I think she;ll call Peggy.

Francine's husband introduced "running" to Mad Men, when he was talking to Don at the Eclipse viewing?

Concernng the Phenobarbital, Don likes to let loose and take a walk on the wild side every once in awhile. Remember the(Hobo Code episode when he was pot smoking or whatever it was in Greenwhich Village apartment at his girlfriends.
Also the Jet Set episode, he ran off with those Euro-weirdos to Palm Springs.

Lucky Strike --This is exactly what I was too tired to write!!

There is nothing taboo that DD has not done already (either sexually or substance wise). The girl offered him reds..he ups it to two. Clearly he has done reds before--probably with the hippie chick.

Jan Jones gave an interview saying that the new guy embodies everything that DD isn't. He is candid and forthright about his past, present, future -- holds nothing back. I literally laughed out loud when she yanked on that desk drawer.

Don made the comment about no more contact with RS because Roger has totally emasculated Don. The call to his wife was a complete invasion of his territory, as well as a blatant campaign, appealing to Betty's sense of financial/marital security. Additionally, Don is mad at Roger for selling out to the Brits, pushing him down the chain of command. Mostly, Don feels that Roger is inferior to him-- smarts wise, work ethic wise, etc.

There is a very strong class conflict going on here--and it is driving alot of Peggy/Don's behaviors. I think that Peggy slept with Duck, not just because of the career threat from Don earlier -- but also the internal caste system at SC. Why did she sleep with the hamburger guy? He said he went to city college, an engineering student - her reply? I went to secretarial school...She wants out of Brooklyn to Manhattan -- she gave up her baby for her career ...and upward mobility. She is all about reinventing herself - even if it means sleeping with Duck. She is enamored of people she perceives as superior to her.

Don has a literal identity crisis - Peggy has a figurative one.

The same with Don, he doesn't have the ivy league education or the blue blood pedigree of Pete Campbell . But both Peggy and Don have the smarts and desire to compete with them and join their social circle.

Look at the weed smoking episode..how the drug dealer made fun of Kinsey because he went to Princeton on a scholarship. How Kinsey used to have a "Joisey" accent and how now his speech was so affected...accent gone.

SC is social darwinism and Don/Peggy are struggling to hang on.

oops I meant to write, I think the teacher would call "BETTY". If Don ever made the mistake and sought her out even for one night.

@rnpen, choose an avatar and I'll tell you.
Nahh, I'm just joking, ahh ha.
She first appeared in the episode two? The Jewess daughter of Menkin' s department store, a new account and experience for the agency (and Don).

@ firstavenue...I totally agree with you about the teacher, she's shaky enough to do just that...

@mpen Rachel Menken is the woman from the first season who runs Menkens Dept. Store. She and Don had a thing, but she didn't want to be a chick on the side. She resurfaced later on and had been married off, never to be heard from again. I want her back because She was intelligent, interesting, and wasn't afraid to "tell Don about himself" when he needed to hear it. I also think he actually loved her.

This site is awful. I keep seeing that there are 337 comments, yet I can only comment on the page that says there are 327, Then the site takes me back to the page that says there are 256 comments. I cannot see any newer comments. What is the matter with this site? It just so does not work. This is aggravating.

Oops didn't realize you had alrady explained Rachel...

G: I think he had Peggy in mind ever since the lunch date. He knows she is relatively naive. It seems our Peggy started out fairly astute (to a point) and has become more naive as time has passed, It's as though she is dumbing-down and it should be the other way around. Peggy seems to go to bed with a man at the drop of a hat - or the drop of his pants.

rnpen: Rachel (if someone has not already explained) was the young lady who, with her father, owned Menken's Dept. Store and with whom Don had an affair and invited her to run away with him at one point. Menken's was a client of SC. Rachel married in season one and by season two made only a brief appearance with her husband. Goodbye Rachel.

Okay, now I am seeing all posts and someone did explain the Rachel Menken character. I liked her and the Midge character from season one. I thought Don and Midge really clicked.

Meh, I never liked Midge. She thought she was too cool for school and Don.
In season one, I didn't like to see anyone put one over on our Don. He was our hero in season one.

I liked the format of tonight’s show as well. The flash forward and flash back really worked for the stories of Don/Betty/Peggy. The opening flashes of the morning of 7/23, then how things all led up to the characters various “positions” of recline. Kudos @ Lucky Strike for an earlier post questioning many posters surprise at Don’s lack of judgment??? This is the Don who we love to hate! The warm fuzzy father of the year from last week’s episode, I knew wouldn’t last…I am looking forward to the Draper’s August '63 vacation next week!

Wowie! What an episode! They really pulled out all the stops tonight.

Peggy and Duck?Ew-w-w, she must be desperate. Sure hope she doesn't get preggers again and have a little ducky. Nods to her white pleated skirt, though. I remember when those were a huge fad.Wonder how many of the SC women noted her same clothes two days in a row?

Another big Ew-w-w to Betty's decorater's purplish walls with orange furniture. And as for her tirade re the fainting couch, I would show the biotch the door. My guess is Betty inherited from her dad so she is paying for the new room. I have never had a decorator but I sure wouldn't put up with somebody telling me what I could/could not have in my own home.

What's wrong with Peggy trying to get ahead, the boys would do it.

I thought the teacher's words to Don were strange. In fact, I think her character is strange. She does look a bit like Rachel Mencken, so I guess that is why somebody last week said they were glad to see Rachel back in the show?? I know some people have a few drinks before they come on the talk forum so I had just figured that was the reason.

Roger and Burt are really over the top trying to get Don to sign the contract- even to the point of blackmail.I wonder how much Burt knows? Is Conrad Hilton REALLY the one pushing the contract?

And lastly,just about everybody got a bit of ass-chewing tonight. Chews happen!

Yeah, turns out that I want to add one more thing about the blank avatars.
If anyone wants to check out this site:
http://annetaintor.com/index.html
It has some great images of mid-century women. Most importantly, they're funny.
Also don't forget the 'create your own Mad Men image' from this site.
Just throwin' it out there...
Throwin' it out.

@flower power I wondered about thewho was behind the contract as well. Because I'm sure Connie mentioned something about business being conducted face to face between him and don, so that did seem a little off......

@ childof60s:

"By childof60s on September 28, 2009 1:59 AM

@Lucky Strike......Don did not steal an identity to keep from going to War. He was in combat in the War with his CO, who was killed. That's when he stole his identity"

Childof60s,
I'll assume you misunderstood what I wrote. But if you reread my comment at 1:39am, you'll realize that I never said Don stole an identity to "keep from going to war." I said he "stole a dead guy's identity to get OUT of the Army." Those are two totally different things.

You changed my words and made it look like I said Don did this to keep from even GOING in the Army. That was NOT what I wrote! As we all know, Don was already IN the Army. And just as I wrote in my comment, he did this to get "OUT."

Small mistake -- big difference in meaning.

Lucky Strike

These people are driving me crazy! I think I hate every one of them. Can it be that Pete (short for Compete) Campbell is the best of them? Say it ain't so!

Nikita-- The Icarus reference is duly noted, and with envy, I knew there was a point to the sun being so prominent, but I wouldn't have thought of a classical lit ref for days, probably. So Don got burned tonight, flying too close for too long and taking it all for granted. I guess it remains to be seen if Betty's wings will fall off over Henry.

First Avenue-- Love the Tippi avotar! Is that from "The Birds" or "Marnie"? I also love what you said about how the hillbilly in Don will always talk to him and that being a good thing. So appropriate to have the Merle Travis song, "16 Tons" to close the show! He was from Kentucky and his dad was a coal miner. Didn't Don tell Connie his family ended up in "coal country" after losing their farm?

Shelby123-- I love how you described Don as having a literal identity crisis, and Peggy a figurative one. And I completely agree about them trying to compete/join the educated class.

Hobocode-- It's no joking matter that so many women were drugged at that time! There were so many Stepford Wives around, my own mom being one. Don't think she was on anything stronger than valium, but still, when you think about it, it's no wonder they were so easily manipulated into giving up careers and personal achievements. Now don't go getting ruffled, I'm just saying... And wouldn't you be disappointed if nobody called your bluff? ;-)

Upon second viewing...when Roger is in Don's office, making his veiled threats --Don is re-filling his fancy cig lighter with a can of lighter fluid. When he is done, he is flicking, flipping the lighter in a menacing & aggressive manner- all the while glaring at Roger.

It was probably the early 70's when I last saw someone refilling those heavy lighters like that (or maybe I just don't know many smokers).

It is these tiny, little historical details that they incorporate that make it so interesting to watch.

Congrats to the person that likened Don's head snap in the motel, to JFK. They were so deliberate in the way they framed it - it was an obvious reference that I missed. Good catch.

nikita_ava - great observations on Icarus/Don/Betty!

Greg - always get so much out of your posts -it's like I'm peering through a shaded window until I read your comments.

sweetclover - re: draft deferments - early on, being married would get you a deferment, but around early 1969, you had to be married and have a child, and by early 1970, neither one would get you a deferment. I remember because we missed the marriage one by a few months and the child one by a few months as well. Not that we were calculating - it just so happened.

I suppose I'm always surprised by Don's behavior because he always looks impeccable and generally behaves that way as well - every hair in place, commanding presence, in control - it lures me into thinking he is as responsible as he looks. I get taken in every time. And then of course, on 7-23 he goes in to work looking like a train wreck - but still acting as though butter wouldn't dare melt in his mouth.

That sounds like Tennessee Ernie to me! I used to have the recording.

SWandale 4- I loved our exchange - then they changed it to WAlnut 3. Yuk. msirvin - hobocode was correct - they changed them to all numbers because they realized they would have a greater number of combinations to serve the growing population using all digits as opposed to being tied down to words. They even made a Bell film about it for the schools, called the "Battle of Babbling Brook" to help everyone transition from their beloved "exchanges" to the all digit system. I figured the idea was we were supposed to go home and "sell" our "reactionary" parents on the modern idea. The transition began in the 60's. I'll always miss SWandale 4...

Re: site problems - whenever I post, the page refreshes *somewhat* - I get a few more posts popping up. Then I have to hit my browser "refresh" button again, and *that's* when I get all the newer posts. I do it every time, and also usually before I post as well.

On 7/23/63, the Beatles released "She Loves You" in Britain. It's the beginning of the end for Brylcreem (and a whole lot more.)

The scene in which Don picks up the hitchhikers encapsulates the "world turned upside down" nature of the times. Normally Don's fancy car and the fact that he works in advertising would impress even the most jaded kid. But these kids value nothing that Don does, including the Hobo Code which Don lives by.

To see Peggy and especially Betty kick over the traces, was absolutely thrilling. I actually enjoyed Betty's scenes for a change.

Seeing Don's world fall apart was an interesting and much needed plot twist. He was too reckless and arrogant (much like Kennedy) for the gods not to punish him in some way. Like Kennedy, he's heading for a fall. The birth of the Beatles presage the end of an era, when the Rogers and Dons of the world, ruled.

Since the only major character in tonight's episode who didn't turn on Don was Joan, she may end up being the one who picks up the pieces.

Shelby-- the flipping of the lighter top also reminded me of how the real Don Draper died! Was Don thinking murderous thoughts about Roger? Very menacing, considering his lighter was a deadly weapon once before.

Some random thoughts on Betty:

How about Mrs. D. having some "pie in the sky" with Henry Francis? He has such a blue blood name! Her excuse, "my friend couldn't get away either" was exactly like how she maneuvered the lunch date with Sarah Beth. I'm sure she thinks she's being very clever with him, but the Junior League elder lady seemed to know something about him, like maybe an eye for the ladies? They used Betty for bait, and she agreed to it! The wannabe call-girl acting out?

Was his hand shielding her eyes from what is to come? Did she fake the fainting spell? Does she really envision herself as a Victorian lady? I thought she looked very Southern Belle in her flowered frock and lacy gloves. Scarlett O'Hara may have met her Rhett, and she won't come out ahead with her childish schemes, methinks.

The workplace line of the year has got to be "I wish you'd stop coming in here and infecting me with your anxiety"

Great comments tonight, gang. Greg, appreciate your insights - and good observations, JoanBaez. I loved how Don, in this episode, would show up for work late, and always someone would be sitting in his chair ready for a powerplay over him. Great surprises and writing for this episode!

I fellow Maddicts!

Very interesting episode. Well, my congratulations to all who guessed it was Don on the floor!

DUCK & PEGGY!!!! my retinas burned, and I was temporarily blinded!
Greg mentioned Duck's foreplay, was that 5 minutes of bribing and begging? Wow, what a love machine!
I cannot believe Peggy did that! For a Hermes scarf, a possibility of going to Paris?
I gave Peggy a lot more credit for brains! She has to know she is being used.
I also like her showing up at SC the next day in the same outfit, hope she showered at least!
It reminded me of when she complained to Joan about Don returning from his trysts "greasy, sweaty".
Remember when Peggy told Kurt she couldn't understand why she picked the wrong boys? History is repeating itself...

Betty and the Gov's. dude...I don't like him, and I don't like the idea that not even 6 weeks after giving birth, she's flirting with this guy.

Did anyone else catch the interior designers comment about the "hearth" of the home? She told Betty and Don, the open hearth represents the family. So, what does Betty do, she plunks her antique chaise right in front of the fireplace, blocking the hearth. Symbolic of things to come?

I was blown away by the final scene with Don and Bert! He made some comment to Don like does it really matter who signs the contract?
He knows Don/Dicks backstory for sure!!!

How could Don be so easily taken in by that young couple? And WHY would he take pills he didn't recognize?
Any health professionals know for sure if Phenobarbital was ever small red pills? It's obvious they were trying to knock him out, and depending on the dose, Phenobarb would do it.
It was sooo sweet of them to leave him his Caddy!

Enough from me for now...

Joan Baez -- great post

Great fact on the 7/23 Beatles. On last week's episode I posted that the PPL office visit was a British invasion of sorts -- foreshadowing the Feb. 1964 arrival of the Beatles. This is a cultural shift that will be seismic.

Your comparison of Don to Kennedy is so appropriate...the hubris, the recklessness...coupled with someone's earlier reference to Icarus. Stellar.

fifty-two --wow..great insight/comments on both Don (in Korea) and Betty.

People have mentioned it was interesting/funny seeing Betty try to pull open the drawer in the study - I think it's interesting how she was sitting at his desk in the study to begin with. Continues the theme of people sitting in his chair that we saw at the office. Also shows Betty taking control, becoming a bit more like Don.

One, two, three, let’s all sing (Manfred Mann): “….Mama told me not to look into the sun, & I said, ‘But, Mama! That’s where the fun is!’” THAT song should have closed the show.

The eclipse scene also reminded me of the (deadly) eclipse scene in the film, “Delores Claiborne”.

I meant to say up front, that I thought I talked to you guys about “hovering” around the top of the blog. If I’m not there, scatter. And, come back in about 20 minutes. (‘Hovering’. Or, as I prefer what Robert Downey Jr’s character said, to Jake Gyllenhaal’s character, in the film‘Zodiac’: ‘Looming. No looming.’)

Happened to catch a bit of MM on TV this afternoon, & saw a rerun of last week’s episode. I was right in my analysis, last week. Pete was NOT one of “the brat pack” that got sprayed w/ blood. He was forward of their action, so that he could be in place to catch Peggy. I was a bit surprised that he made no mention of that “catch” while in Peggy’s office tonight: “Hey! I’m looking out for you! I always am! Who caught you when you fainted at the sight of blood?” The MM writers missed a great opportunity for dialogue here. Get it? “At the SIGHT of blood”? Would have been in keeping w/ tonight’s “sight gags”,

Duck, “Are you sure? I love to do it in the morning?” Ewww, gag, spit, losing it, fast……………………………….(What a surprise. You are a MAN, Duck, aren’t you?)

@Draperesq: TATATOWNGIRL & I want to know - Okay, what are the legal ramifications here, w/ signing the contract “Don Draper”? We haven’t been told, but if I were Dick, I would have legally changed my name to “Don Draper” long ago (I know, there’d be a legal record of it, but who’d look for that, & how easy would it be to find that legal information, in California, of the 1960s?), just as “Don’s” widow had to give ‘Dick’ a divorce (& when is Betty going to find out about her husband’s 1st marriage? I mean, what legally looks like he was married b4, I understand that ‘Dick’ was never really married to wife #1). And, have we covered this? Don Draper’s first wife lost out on Don Draper’s widow benefits, didn’t she? Has Don been paying her, so she could afford to live by only giving piano lessons? If Coop says to “Dick”, “What does it really matter if Don Draper signs this?”. In the film, “Marnie”, Margaret Edgar is married off as “Mary Taylor”. Sean Connery’s character says to Tippi Hedron’s character, “Yes, we’ll just have to marry you off as Mary Taylor. It’s perfectly legal. You can sign your self as “Minnie Q. Mouse’, you’re still married.” So, if Dick never changed his name to Don, he’s still married to Betty, even though he married her as Don Draper. But, is he still bound by the SC contract? And, if he wanted out of it, couldn’t he simply say, “Okay, I’m out. I’m not Don Draper. I never changed my name.” So, signing it shouldn’t matter to him, except he simply didn’t want to ever expose himself to SC (w/ the exception of Coop, of course) as NOT Don Draper. And, if he never changed his name, & the contract is not binding, then why make such a fuss about signing it? (Except, also, maybe for his own symbolic reasons, i.e. his loss of power at SC, in front of Betty, etc.) If the contract is not binding, Don can simply walk away, & SC can simply fire him whenever they want to, right? Of course, they could have anyway, when he didn’t have a contract. (Sob! I’m so confused.)

@j9mac: Re your preshow post: “Could be a date”: You were right! My hats off to ya! Cute avatar, btw.

@hobocode52: “Feel free to take my comments out of context….” Stop making me laugh. Or, I’ll come over & hit you w/ Sally’s hairbrush.

@hobo: Why shouldn’t Peggy check w/ Don’s secretary (Oooo, you’re right! A real keeper! Big Smile!) concerning his mood? I thought you had a good idea there. Why scratch it after what he did tonight?

@hobocode: What happened w/ your MM prize? Did you find out what it was?

@hobocode: Hobo, LAURIEB. IS Matt Weiner? Didn’t you ever notice how she always knows everything, yet she skips around to all these other blogs? (And, never complains about not being able to get on the site? (And, has weekends off?))

@hobocode: What do you call a man w/ no arms or legs, when he’s floating in your swimming pool? Bob.

@Greg: Greg, I ALWAYS read every one of your posts, & over several times. Your analysis of Duck was expectantly thorough, and absolutely enlightening, & I think it should be required reading for all MM fans. I just didn’t want to speak up & have someone post “Rather than an Open Thread, you people sound like you’re writing personal e-mails to each other. That’s fine if you want to form a mutual admiration society.”, or some such drivel. I’m certainly guilty of it. (Why does anyone care if posters write positive things to each other?)

@Greg: Re: “Don’s getting more wrangled, while Peggy is expanding.”, “Don is always late, or getting-up to leave, altogether.” (the Lane Pryce mtg., Joan’s office party, home in Ossining tonight, etc.), “Peggy can’t find an identity where she fits in” (not being asked to be part of the baby gift for Gene, making herself become part of an office gift to Joan (which, apparently, they never give Joan, as the sec tells Joan, ‘We bought you the cake.’, & Peggy tells Joan, ‘I thought of giving you a present)), “Henry’s hand over Betty’s eyes to block her looking into the eclipse” – all terrific observations, Greg! I came up w/ all these examples after reading your informative post.

@fancynancy: Okay, stop making-out with GREG. The “fainting couch”? You made me think of something. Peggy fainted last week. The fainting couch this week. (Say what? Harvey is a blind albino? Harvey is yelling at a ‘badger’? Is that what you’re calling ‘Dr. Knight’ now?)

@DeepDish: Now you have me confuded. And, I mean “confuded”, that’s not a typo. Do you have a perpetual calendar? What day of the week was 7/23/63? Because if it was a Monday, you’re right, then this episode was in the Twilight Zone.

@BBK: Awp! I caught Betty trying to get into that drawer, too. I laughed out loud, too. First viewing, too. Usually, I’m slower on the uptake than that. You’re right. Hilarious!

@ILoveJoan: You were giving credit to the MM fashion squad. Believe it, or not, I left out a comment on last week’s Open thread.
How about that terrific 4th of July outfit that Sally was wearing? I LOVED that little flag picture on her shirt. (I want that shirt.)

@ILoveJoan: Re: “Sterling, Cooper, Draper & Whitman”? I LOVE THAT! How perfectly schizophrenic of you. Has “Mad Magazine” done a parody of MM yet? That would be hysterical in the opening cartoon! GREG, you work at “Mad”, don’t you? (555 Madison Avenue, 35 cents. Cheap. I just decided, I’m going to have that written as my epitaph.)

@fifty-two: FIRST AVENUE’s Avatar is from “Marnie”! The famous dinner party scene with “Strutt”. “Pay-off Strutt”. Damn that Lil! (Diane Baker)

@first avenue: Yes. I agree. I loved Betty’s, “Freeze!”, too. That WAS common to say to kids in the 60s. Like that lawn game.

@amybett: Thanks for reiterating to everyone, especially NEW POSTERs, that doing homework is vital, if you’re going to post, & there’s no excuse for NOT doing it. Seems 90% better than last season. Last season, I was ready to shoot posters. I would add that SCAN of the blog b4 you post, is really just courtesy. I hate when people come on & say, “Don’t have time to read every post – 500,075 of them! But I just want to ask, ‘Why was Dr. Pepper in a machine at the hospital in 1963?’, when the first 300 posts dealt w/ the topic. How difficult is it to SCAN through the blog & look for the words, “Dr. Pepper”?

@NeverNoToasty: Yuck, I hated the teacher kissing Sally, too, in front of Don. It seemed so contrived. There was a real “yike, yuck” factor in tonight’s episode.

@NeverNoToasty &
@Shelby: Yes, it’s repetitive comments that I can’t take, either. I was calling them “double posts” b4, & I think that screwed people up because they thought I meant when you “Submit” twice in error. I have no problem w/ that, especially in such a poorly managed site.

@NeverNoToasty: Any chance you won the prize last week for your Barbie under the dresser comment? I thought it was the best of the blog. Made my Mom (OmarsMom) laugh out loud, too.

@Zabadu: Thanks, filly, for the “Starting Line”. You’re a peach.

@Zabadu: “I still have the stench of Duck & Peggy.” Yuck, me, too, Zab. I feel so “soiled”. Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

@Zabadu: Yes, and I’ve been waiting for Coop to play that trump card ever since he got ahold of it.

@amybett: My Dad used it as a legal way to get out of Korea.
@amybett: Oooooooooooooooo – “Hilton told Don, “Young people give you energy.”, & then Doug & Sandy give Don the opposite of energy. Very good.

@amybett &
@MMJunkie: Thanks for posting what the motel note said. I asked for it, but the site didn’t show me your earlier posts that revealed it.

@MMJunkie: I LOVED your “Is Dick losing his Don-ness?” comment. Right on target! I’m going to think of this side of Don, that way, from now on. But, I don’t agree w/ your take on the teacher & Don.

@TaTownGirl: Don’t worry. With the mess-up of this site, everyone seems to be asking & answering questions already posted. Everyone is trying so hard.

@TaTownGirl: Re: Your mention of the SC contract dispute. I was thinking along those same lines, but I hadn’t thought it through as far as you did. After reading your post, I composed the question at top to DONDRAPER,ESQ, our site’s resident attorney. (And, why did Coop ask him to sign it that way? Because Coop bet Don wouldn’t ever use the ‘I’m not Don Draper’ excuse to get out of it?)

@TaTownGirl: Wow. “Look at things slant.” Good Emily Dickinson reference! I always carry a poem around of hers, w/ me, but I know it by heart. It was the end of my eulogy, for my grandmother, in 2004: “This is the hour of lead. Remembered if outlived. As freezing persons recollect the snow, First chill. Then stupor. Then the letting go.” (Forgive the punctuation, which is mine, not Emily’s)

@TaTownGirl: Thanks! I meant to say, “Could someone SCRAPE Peggy off Don’s office floor”, not SCRAP poor Peggy there. One letter, & the meaning of the entire sentence is completely changed.

@Sweetclover: Yes, the site problems have to do w/ a storm problem. It’s the storm called “AMC Technical Dept.”

@Sweetclover: You don’t write like the posters we were heckling as “Monty”. Are you sure we were addressing you? You have to write something pretty stinky to be called “Monty”, around here, at least by me. As stinky as Peggy & Duck in the sack together (I’m soooooo nauseous, thinking about that.)

@LuckStrike: Your 11:05 post on Coop & Don analysis is one of the best I’ve ever read on the site.

@NokomisFL: I agree. B4 the season started, we all (here at home) kept asking, “Don must have a contract, right?” I love how the Coop thing finally played out. I never really enjoyed the part where Pete exposed Don to Coop. Now, I’ll forgive the MM writers, because they used it well, to end tonight’s action (shoulda seen that coming, Never expected it.)

@G: Family, yes. And, not only is Pete speaking to Peggy honestly & openly now, but now he’s coming into her office to have these little “heart to hearts”. You know, where he “barges in & infects her w/ [his] anxiety.” You know, what’s that, if not a description of “family”.

@G: Did the kids leave him the car so he wouldn’t call the cops? No Grand Theft Auto, but what about robbery & assault?

@G: Uh, G, I think I have an image. I’ve worked hard toward it, & everyone is aware of it. HAhAHAHAH. Okay, I have a new printer, & am buying a new laptop, & plan to scan in a photo, as soon as that’s hooked-up. Another week or so. Can you wait that long for an avatar, or should I fake one?

@G: I agree! My Mom was really into modern furniture in her home, in 1963. BTW, she loves Coop’s office décor, & the character. She thinks Betty’s a bitch.

@MadMenSuze: Re: Your 11:39 PM post: Everything you write is “pure poetry”. (I am so punch drunk, I wrote “poor poetry”. And, it would have gone through ‘spell check’, just fine that way. Just happened to catch it on a ‘read through’.)

@MadMenSuze: Listen, I thought the same thing you did. I wondered if Duck was really working for Grey, or not. The hotel room is what got me thinking, even though, as a salesrep, I had to have clients up to a hotel suite, myself (not alone, of course. I was happily married.), but that got me thinking. So, okay we were both proven wrong by NEVERNOTOASTY, but we were thinking ALIKE (no surprise there.) So from now on, are you going to be signing in as “Nuts”, or can we just call you that, when writing directly to you?

@gig4ever: So you’re new here, huh? Well, forget it. Get out. You can’t post here. Oh, wait a minute, I think that’s wrong. Delete that. Oh, okay, so you’re new here, huh? Great! Welcome! Keep posting. We LOVE new blood. And we need it. (Because we spill alot of it on this site.)

@Chika_T: Is your screen name supposed to be like Misty the Pony’s island? Sorry, I posted about the PA (psychoanalytic) lounge, & the site is so screwed-up, it appeared after you had posted the same observation. I didn’t get a chance to read yours b4 I posted because of the site screw-up.

@inspiron: I’m w/ you. I hate this teacher, so she’s probably going to be involved in something we don’t expect. I don’t remember anyone else saying this, but she comes across as very immature to me. And, for Don, I don’t see his attraction to her. Also, this is hitting pretty close to home. Practically like sleeping w/ Francine.

@jan001: Someone reminded me last week, the whole Don angry w/ Roger because Roger told Mona that it was Don who told him to leave her, even though that’s not what Don said. It was good. You may want to go back & look for it. I also don’t want a lot of whole episodes using a flashback device, but this was a onetime thing, wasn’t it?

@jan001: I agree w/ AMYBETT. I thought she said “temper”, too.

@jan001: I think there’s more about Roger that has to be revealed. We may think we know why Don is angry, & it does seem his anger is overkill, but the MM writers may not have revealed everything that has happened between Roger & Don.

@jan001: I thought Don taking the pills from strangers was pretty disgusting, too. We are SO AWARE nowadays, aren’t we? I remember coming-out of the Wintergarten Theatre, on New Year’s Eve 1981, & deciding to stay for the ball drop, & people generously handing-out paper cups, & others walking around w/ open champagne bottles (I drank a little, very little, back then), pouring into everyone’s cups, & laughing, & having a great time. For all we knew, we could have been drinking sweet tasting antifreeze. I saw this scene as that world, & the drug-sharing world of the 60s, that was about to open up, big time. It reminded me of how John Lennon & Paul McCartney used to take any drugs, anyone handed them, in the “swinging London” nightclubs, of the mid to late 60s, & how anyone could have killed either of them that way. It didn’t have to be a handgun in Manhattan.

@jan001: You may be right about “1963” written out. I was a kid then, so we would have written the whole date out in school. If people used ’63, I’m not aware of it, & my Mom (OmarsMom) can’t remember it.

@adamx6000: Did you see the end of the film “Executive Decision”? (1970s version, not the 1980s version, w/ Kurt Russell, which is a completely different story.) I assume you’ve seen the Donald Sutherland scene in the film, “JFK”. Donald Sutherland’s character, “Ask yourself who profited from the Vietnam War? Sikorsky Aircraft, la la la, la la, la….” At the end of “Executive Decision”, lists roll of aircraft, helicopters, American Airline seats, etc., that were paid for by the American People, under the broad expenses wing of “The Vietnam War” (Whewww, good thing Lane Pryce wasn’t the financial watchdog on that war.) “Who profited from JFK’s assassination, & subsequently, the Vietnam War?”, that idea, along the lines of your post

I wrote a note to someone, & I drew a graph. I have no idea who this screen name is, & I certainly can’t make sense out of this graph! Next!

@chopin47: Whoa, wait just a minute. You used to sing, “Sixteen Tons” before what movie? In what theatre? Is this still something you’re doing, I mean, singing b4 a movie starts? And, they haven’t thrown you out? How ‘bout once the movie starts? Do you keep quiet, or sing something else? Am I the only poster confused here?

@rozsie: Re: “Don battered & bound, signing the contract. What a sight!” You know, I hadn’t thought of it that way. That’s a terrific observation. Thanks for sharing.

@hanna: Hanna, is your question rhetorical? Because I covered it in my “displaced aggression” post, & you are such a sharp poster, you usually never miss a thing.
@hanna: What’s w/ the NW references? Why would MM do it? Why would Don say that in a mtg. in midtown Manhattan? Why would that beer be at a Westchester County motel?

@msirvin: People sitting behind Don’s desk, symbolizing a “shift” of Don’s power, away from his “comfort zones’ – behind his desk, his office, his car, his home (Don’s attacked everywhere he goes, & with everything that belongs to him: call by Roger to Don’s home telephone.) Behind Don’s desk: Who else would he ever let sit there besides Conrad Hilton or Coop? Notice, Roger didn’t try that tactic. When he sees CH, he sits in front of his own desk. By the end, he just about tolerates this, standing, & confronts Coop, refusing to sit subservient, anymore. Was Coop sitting when Don came in? Did Don’s secretary warn him about Coop’s presence the way she did w/ CH?

@msirvin: Re the preview, I’m not convinced that Don is speaking to a woman when he says, “It won’t break my heart.” Suppose it’s Roger who says, “What if I never spoke to you again?”

@msirvin &
@flowerpower: I agree. I thought “CH wants a contract.” sounded contrived, too. Especially w/ CH speaking to Don so one on one.

@mpen: Didn’t Roger GIVE Peggy that office? I thought his remark was rude, but he always has the great one-liners.

@blueknife: Your post was overkill. Okay, we get it. You want to shock & offend the women on the post. What are you, 12?

@sznia: Yes, it was mentioned.

This episode and comments just made me think -

who (which character) will be the next to crash and burn? From so many to choose.

@Miss59: I agree. I just posted, next to my PC, that line of dialogue under last week's great "at work" line: "Somewhere, in this business, this has happened b4."

This was the passive/agressive episode. Don storming out the door and getting high and beat up. Roger being bold about the contract, then wimpy calling Betty. Duck playing the behind the scenes, then bedding Peggy. Betty being the demure junior leaguer then playing Henry. Peggy getting slammed by Don, then getting slammed by Duck. Burt being the philosopher then the arm twister on the contract. Where was Joan and Sal?

What is with so many of you not understanding the friction that has been growing between Don and Roger? It is so obvious that it is because Don hates that SC was sold and blames Roger for it. After all, he needed the money to deal with his divorce. That's the first thing. Then he resents who Roger is essentially: a "silver-spoon" type. Then he thinks Roger made a pass at Betty when he was over for dinner that one time. Then he.....Shall I go on? Come on people!

A lot of posters have remarked upon the mystery of WHY Don is so angry at Roger. I think the reason is because Roger broke the rules, in Don's opinion. He used Don's words when telling Mona that he was leaving her, so that Don was the butt of Mona's anger. Roger was vain and vulnerable to the beauty of a girl young enough to be his daughter, made such life changing decisions based on his vanity.
Don was disgusted and repulsed-- now, there is a good argument to be made that this is the pot calling the kettle black, what with all Don's foibles. But Don thinks of himself as a good guy, trying not to hurt anyone, and that what Betty doesn't know for absolutely sure, can't hurt her.
Remember Don punching Jimmy Barrett-- that was punishment for tattling.
Don thinks as long as he provides for his family, and keeps up some level of normalcy, there should be no punishment for him. But he is punishing Roger for breaking it all apart, ditching his marriage for a chance at some hot girl.

I fully understand the rift between Roger and Don. Don feels Roger has betrayed their guy code trust. Roger feels Don should be more appreciative for the half million dollars.

@Hobo, you there? Hah, there is so Dogcode, and the skanky teacher is fluent in it! She’s looking for an abusive Daddy. I think in the scene when she drunk dialed the Drapers that the unbuttoned top/hanging bra strap meant someone had just left her place.

Possibly the kids Don picked up were making up the story about getting married in order to find victims to roll. They probably stand on the road every night getting picked up by unsuspecting motorists.

This rift cannot last, though. The characters are too integral. I wish they'd get some new characters, and stick with them, like the Barrett's. The British just aren't doing it, besides, they completely ignored the 'footless' situation this week.

@renatae "I really felt she was projecting all over Don. She read into every small thing he said as if it was suggestive. I felt she was trying to regain her dignity after the "drunk dial" as well as projecting her own desires onto him."

I agree completely. She's testing Don, here. She knows he isn't like the others... his attendance (and sensitivity) at the teacher conference proves that. She wants to see if he's as cool under pressure.

Weiner uses the eclipse metaphor perfectly. While the other dad stares directly at the sun, Don waits until the eclipse is further along. Don is patient, not impulsive. He's going to wait until the relationship advances before showing too much interest, lest he get burned.

Don has made it clear that Roger has obliterated his strange moral code. Roger is dead to him. Which is what he meant with what he said to Roger at the barbershop in Episode #6). And why he demanded that Coop keep Roger away from him. Don's first snap was when Roger betrayed their friendship because of his affair with Don's secretary ("I want her off my desk.") and has been piled onto ever since (Roger agreeing to sell SC to strangers, Roger calling Betty behind Don's back, etc). Oops! I forgot the part where Roger hit on Betty in Don's home. Roger is dead. Period. (I just hope MW lets Roger live -- he gets the best lines I've almost ever heard in television!)

will betty ever find that desk drawer unlocked?

I don't think that Roger is dead. I believe that he will reinstate his bond w/Don somehow, probably involving the Brits or better yet, his kids. His character is too popular. He's obviously done a big bowl of wrong to Don, but it's forgivable.

Seven Twenty Three is the date on Don's contract -- July 23, 1963. Recall the five-second shot of Don signing the contract at the end of the episode. The date was in plain sight.

I really only meant that Roger is "dead" to Don. I threw in the line about MW letting Roger live so I could make the point about the amazing lines Roger has! Roger is just about as popular as Joan. Neither one is going anywhere!

Of course, dead to Don, but I don't agree that it will last, as stated in previous post. Roger's lines are outrageously fabulous!

Maddicts: Did anyone pick up on Duck saying he enjoyed the taste of booze when he kissed Peggy? Will Duck go off the wagon again?

@McTwisty: “My beer is Rheingold the dry beer
Think of Rheingold whenever you buy beer
It’s not bitter, not sweet, it’s a long-lasting treat
Think of dry when you buy Rheingold beer.”

And do you remember the Rheingold contest to pick out your favorite Rheingold girl?

Words words.. it is so interesting that all the clues in this show are almost throw away lines. Grandpa Gene and his "I should have gone first" his putting salt on his ice cream was just about cyanide for him. Sally leaves Grandpa Gene after reading (not sure he forgives her for taking his money) he says "all hell will break loose" How true these words became in the last two episodes.
I think Pete is worried about Duck and his ability to bury a few people. I think that is what he meant by "I am not worried about you, I am worried about Duck"

@MamboDeb That teacher is trouble in any code, run away Don she is a lunatic.
Early opening scene prediction for next week.
Brunette Barbie sitting in Don's car seat on a stack of phone books hands on the wheel.

Wow 7/23 golly that was the date on the contract, jeepers how deep

Loved Poppa Whitmans technique with the jug, tres authentique

Phew! Finally some people that have a clue with what is going on between Don and Roger. Now, I agree that Roger is "dead" to Don. He has shown himself to be weak and untrustworthy in several ways now. I think it was only his cynicism and humor that pulled them together for so long but Roger's character flaws (ironic!) are unacceptable to Don. Don's treatment of him may now spur Roger on to what? Be more of a productive figure at SC? Stop lamenting why Don is so angry at him and get angry himself? Or will he retreat further?

@wasthere Good catch on the liquor on lips comment by Duck. Heard it ,but like many scenes on the show I didn;t register the nuance until someone pointed it out to me. Thanks. I definitely remember the Miss(not ms) Rheingold contest. The pictures of these aspiring beer queen aspirants, used to adorn the interior advertising space of many subway cars. Speaking of the 60's subway, do you remember the 1cent gum machines, replete with mirrors. never lost a penny, such good technology.

"Seven Twenty Three" refers to the date Don wrote next to his signature on his contract... 7-23-1963... significant because now he can start counting down three years of being owned by Sterling Cooper.

Cooper was able to get Don to sign it since Bert seems to know Don's real identity.... "After all, when it comes down to it, who's really signing this contract anyway?", Bert states.

Does anyone know if there was an episode in which Cooper referred to Dick Whitman or how he would know this about Don's past?

It'll be so sad if Don & Roger don't make up this time--I love them together as a team!

What did it signify that Peggy offered to get Don coffee? Is she saying that she's over his meltdown from the day before? Is she reminding him that she bailed him out after the car crash with Barrett's wife? Has she bribing him not to say anything about her wearing the same dress two days in a road? Was there anything in the first season about Peggy getting Don coffee when she was his secretary that is now being referenced?

About Bert and Don: I think Cooper wasn't blackmailing Don; he was reminding him that the contract didn't mean anything, since it's being signed using an alias. So, Don can still run if he wants to - not to another agency, but he can still start over, which gives him the out he needs to live with a contract.

Racy asked this at 8:16 a.m. Monday, and I'm hoping a lawyer will weigh in: If Don bails on his contact, what can SC do to him? Would it matter if he never legally changed his name?

Now that Peggy's had Duck, will she get Crabs?

My question at 10:30 a.m. was answered while I was framing it. Thanks to hellonycmoms at 10:22 a.m. Or is it more complicated than that? Lawyers?

I watched the episode with my sons, who bring their girlfriends over to watch the show. one of the girls, a college senior is taking a tv class that includes MadMen for college credits. Maybe I could have made it in college if they offered 3 Stooges, or Twilight Zone episodes. any way, to the point.
These 4 young people laughed with great gusto, when all the kids at "eclipsestock" lined up with empty cardboard boxes over their heads. I mean they roared. I was a couple of beats behind them, and I began to ponder about how many ridiculous things we were subjected to like that. Duck under a desk to avoid anhilation from a nuclear bomb, comes to mind. And finish off the food on your plate, because kids are starving in China. I was pushed to the point of nausea at times, and learned several tricks of distraction to stuff unwanted food into my pockets. I would never dream of forcing anyone to eat something they were repulsed by. But I guess we as a generation turned out fine, with no lingering psychological problems.

It just so happens I'm working from home today and I'm a contract lawyer. I agree with the NYC mom that Coop wasn't blackmailing him, but was actually letting him know that he wasn't taking the contract anymore seriously than he took Campbell's revelation in the first place. But it doesn't matter. The Brits own the company and the contract is between them and Don. Don could've signed with a big ole "X", and as long as it was his "X," he'd be bound by it.

Having said all that, I doubt that this arrangement will last three years. Either the Brits will bail or some other major coup will happen.

One thing about Episode 7, and Don in the car with the kids he picks up. They gave him some pills they called "reds." Reds were Seconal, not phenobarbital as they told him. Just a small detail, but take it from somene who knows.

@Don'sgalpal - I'm going purely on memory here but I actually do recall a scene from the first season (?) where it seems that Bert Cooper does know something about Don's identity being less than accurate. It might have been around the time of the brother visit/Pete-interception-of-box period. Anyone else?

Hi Everyone -- I'm new here.

How many other people think that Duck is playing Peggy? He couldn't get her to come over to Gray, so he used his next best option - seduction. I think he's going to use her to get revenge on Don and Sterling Cooper somehow. I really think Peggy was just plain stupid in falling for his lines.

I'm still creeped out by what Peggy and Duck did. As soon as Don chewed her out in his office, I immediately thought, 'Well, the damage has been done. She's going to run to Duck's bed.' Also, I don't imagine that that hotel was too far away from Peggy's new Manhattan apartment, so she could've gone home to change clothes very quickly before work if she wanted to. But I feel that she chose not to, just to make a statement.

Meanwhile Betty is still acting like a kid, buying a useless piece of furniture simply because her crush suggested it for her, and Don is foolish//impulsive enough to let himself get his a** kicked by a couple of kids. Next step for Don: Losing himself in Ms. Farrell (literally and figuratively).

@Nancy inOhio nice one Well we've had Sal and the Bellboy and Peggy with Duck to make me uncomfortable so far.not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just my particular sensibilities. In light of McKenzie Phillips and Papa John accusations/revelations last week, I am just wondering what other possibly uncomfortable pairings will come up this season.
Ken and Lois
Cooper and Olive
Duck and Pete
Lane Pryce and Peggy in an attempt to retain her services at S/C , how naiive is this woman

here's a couple of pairings I wouldn't mind
Don and Francine
Pete and Hildey (anyone else smell smoke in the preview)
Joan and Don
Joan and anybody except Dr Inept rapist
Joan and Hollis
Joan and Hooker?
Joan and Conrad Hilton

# 1 Don could very well be resisting contract signing because he knows if he can hook a "Connie Hilton" he can hook other big fish. Hilton signed onto Sterling-Co because of Don. And begin his own Mad Agency where he doesn't have to answer to anyone.

#2 Peggy sleeping with the Duck...that's how getting ahead was done back then...and probably still is. Human nature doesn't change that much. Duck knows Peggy has talent, Peggy knows Duck has power. Hermes, Revlon, etc.... not accounts to sneeze at. Don was so unsufferably mean to her, it would stand to reason, she's get revenge by flying the [Coop]er trappings for the high flying Duck.

Morning Maddicts! I love the day after don't you?

Betty bought herself the most obnoxious cat bed in history!

The lighting during the eclipse! Beautiful! It really looked as though an eclipse was happening...the reflection of the moon covering the sun in Don's glasses...

Don doesn't want Roger knowing his secrets....If Roger knew about Dick???

Has everyone seen the inside story on 7/23? http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/?bcpid=8803972001&bclid=32693689001&bctid=42081282001
Interesting about the Noir theme MW mentioned.

Has everyone seen the epi 8 sneak peek? http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/?bcpid=8803972001&bclid=27344898001&bctid=42082963001
A city mouse / country mouse parallel between Ken and Pete?

@hobo- too funny sedating the women's movement! AND Sorry @52 I didn't mean to laugh at your expense...

@Greg- Here's a thought from another blog:
Duck may believe that Peggy is "Don's Girl" hence Duck's own sexual revenge...even if nothing business related ever comes of it?
I also like how you see the Don/Betty/Peggy triptych unfolding...

@60'sChild- "And WHY would he take pills he didn't recognize?" He's reckless and self destructive...Hate to admit it, but I've taken pills I didn't recognize...I was also reckless and self destructive, at the time.

@hellonycmoms - I think that Peggy offering to get Don's coffee is her way of saying "I'm here for you still" even though he bawled her out. That would benefit her too, if he sees a faux paux in her walk of shame...

@flowerpower - I really don't think Peggy is trying to get ahead by sleeping with Duck. And is that really the way she wants to get ahead?? She isn't calling the shots on this encounter....and it can't be good for her.

I like the Joan / Connie pairing. Lot's of story possibilities there. Joan going onto be another "Queen of Mean", type.

Don is angry at Roger for two reasons: He did not go to bat for him with the other partner and owner
AND
He called his wife at home and brought her into it. He broke a man code!

Did anyone see Betty and Henry touch hands as they started down the street and then Henry put his hand in his pocket?

I thought the shock of how opposite Betty and Don are was perfect at the end:
Don sacrificed his final bit of freedom for the "man" while Betty lounged on a fainting chair!

The teacher is a little Midge, a little Bobby and a little Ms. Menken: young, sexy, honest, mysterious and unpredictable. I think he actually is grossed out by her and that is why he has to have her and break her spirit too.

This episode was amazing and classic MM. It was co written by the husband and wife team that wrote most of season 1 and 2 and have not written one episode yet this season.

Bert knew of Don's alter ego Dick Whitman after Pete found out and ran and told. I have a feeling Bert knew before this, but I can't prove it.

@Dixiegirl I agree with you . That is how it was done then and now. Peggy's character is very interesting. I am not sure if I buy into her being talented. If she thinks she really does have talent, she should use that talent to get ahead. Now there is a possibility that she slept with Duck, because she is just a tramp. Insecure and reveling in the attention any man would give her. I have no idea really. She is just a fictional character. To quote Bill Parcells(a former football coach ladies, not an eighteenth century philosopher) you are what your record says you are. There is a thing called integrity that can serve a person well in the long run. Peggy is young, I hope she can still develop some.

Hi Everyone!

I really enjoyed this episode. I like how they started off the show with clips from the morning of 7/23/63 and then jumping back o the day before and then leading up to what had transpired. Very different opening than what they have done in the pa