post-partum depression?

I've always thought Betty was bi-polar. There are many scenes from season 1 to suggest this. Remember her beating the crap out of a perfectly good dining room chair?
But I also think she's completely bored with her life. She has what she wants but doesn't know what to do with it now that she has it. She starts things and then abandons them: the horse riding from season 2, now the local politics. She reminds me a bit of the Carmella character from the Sopranos.

Bipolar disorder is a real disease, "princess syndrome" is not. I don't think Betty is bipolar because she doesn't experience the manic highs and drastic mood swings which are characteristic of that illness.

Betty was depressed from the very beginning of the show. I think she has severe depression and some generalized anxiety. She's also got a lot of serious deep-seated issues about obsessing over her appearance and may have a mild eating disorder. Unresolved grief from both parents' recent deaths. She also grew up in such a sheltered home environment that it sometimes causes her some difficulties in understanding/handling "the real world".

I think she's also disappointed and angry about what her life has become. She's unhappy and doesn't know how to fix it because society tells her she already has all the right things that "should" equal happiness for any woman = handsome successful husband, comfortable income, kids, lovely suburban home, etc. She has those things and is still miserable.

Betty is happier when she's without her children.She just wants to be with one person at a time.Hence with Don in Rome.She decides to go with Don after the " kiss" earlier that evening. That kiss is what sparked her libido in Rome...

Betty resents being a housewife. She thinks she deserves more and better. She turned into a dirty girl in Italy! She likes attention and being in the midst of glamour, money and power.
When she's back in the burbs, with her unfortunate children, she immediately reverts to pout and brood mood. This is a common syndrome!! Betty is extreme, but I remember mothers (and fathers) during the 50s and 60s were just not that into their kids. C'mon, we all know poor Sally will be drinking, smoking and having sex by the time she's 12.
As for Pete - his problems have many layers. How old was the au pair?? But somehow, the sleaziest of the group has the most pleasant, loving and devoted wife!!

@Chris-I like that, one person at a time.

Don't forget, Betts was having problems with her hands going numb, and that is the main reason that Don sent her to the shrink. I don't think it's bi-polar, but I can't diagnose that. But I can diagnose Princess Syndrome. Calm down bluegirl, I'm not writing this show, it's being thrown at us in all different directions, & that's why we like it!

Hi everyone!
I vote for princess syndrome.

No prob BoyToy. Sorry if I came across overly serious. Meant no offense. I just love exploring stuff like this in detail. Psychology, sociology, etc. I'm a dork like that. :) Totally agree that stuff "being thrown at us in all different directions" is a huge part of MM's appeal.

Betty does have some form of a princess syndrome in addition to what I consider more serious issues. In some ways Don enables this behavior. Society enables it. Even the other women in the Junior League enable it by pointing out that she is "the pretty one", i.e., Francine's "It's not adorable to pretend you're not adorable."

The classic archetype of a princess is very isolating. Sleeping Beauty and Rapunzel trapped in their towers, etc.

Welcome to Annushka in Moscow! It's great to have your unique perspective here. Men's Day, wow...

Hi Annushka!

Welcome! It's great to have your perspective!

Believe me, not all women from America are spoiled princesses!
It sounds like American women and Russian women from Moscow have something in common. It is the same here. If you are a wealthy or beautiful woman you are treated as a princess.

That Men's Day sounds like an interesting holiday! I don't think American women would go for that!!

I was a mother in the mid-Sixties, and the coldness Betty
exhibits towards her children was in no way present in
my circle of friends. Quite the contrary; it was a very
child-centered era. Likely the Fifties were different.

This last episode seems to deal with the reignition of passion in marriage, stimulated by the presence of other liaisons,
however icky.

Neither. Nordic.

@annushka: Women are not spoiled in America. Leave Americans alone.

Sorry to disagree! I don't think bi-polar or princess applies here at all. I think what we are seeing here is Betty representing the beginnings of restlessness of some women during this time period. Home and family are good, but just not enough. It's manifesting in her sexual restlessness, and she wants to be stimulated outside the home, i.e., here reservoir involvement. And, remember her parroting the Henry's line to Don: "If you have no power, delay". She's trying to figure out how to get control of and make changes in her life at a time when it's not socially acceptable to do so.

@60's child: "Annuska" is a man. And American. And a troll. Don't buy into it. Read his other posts. It's all bs.

@Katie, Good comments. Since when is money enough? Seems to me that's all she has. Don seems to escape criticism, yet he hardly ever acts like a husband except that he provides financial support. Betty has no intimacy in her life. Don shuts her out. She's never allowed to discuss anything important with him. He just walks out if it becomes difficult or emotional. To me, Betty is the strong one with real moral fiber. She is the one who is always there and who avoids temptation, unlike her husband. I was raised in the 60's. Mothers loved you but didn't necessarily monitor your every movement like they are expected to now. Try raising three kids with an absent/indifferent/withholding husband before you get so hard on Betty. I think she gets bashed because she is so beautiful.

I'm leaning towards princess. Notice how in the last episode, Betty was fumbling around with her lighter in the bakery with Henry. Seemed like she was waiting for him to light her cig - he did not. In this episode, men were lighting her cigs left and right and she was loving it!

Her reaction to the souvenier was so off-base, I actually thought for a moment she had dreamed the whole trip and was mad that she didn't get to go! But no, they went and she is not happy to be back.

Hi NeverNotTasty!

Thanks so much for the heads up...I guess I'm troll bait! You would think after a year I'd get it!

I will look for those other posts, thanks again!

@kac said, "I think she gets bashed because she is so beautiful"

You know, I've wondered about this a lot too. I'm quite sympathetic to Betty, although I think I'm in the minority on that.

Does her appearance make it harder for some people to see Betty as a regular human being? Will anyone admit to judging her more harshly because of her looks? It's probably an unconscious bias so I doubt anyone will face up to it.

However, lookism doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone regarding Don or Joan. Both of them are extremely physically attractive too. Joan especially is well liked by most MM fans. I and many others personally consider Joan even more beautiful than Betty. So is it really prejudice based on Betty's looks or something else going on that makes her an unpopular character? Not sure, but I think it's probably a mix of many different qualities she has. It's not easy for some viewers to connect with such an inwardly focused character. She holds a lot back. Feelings, words, everything.

bluegirl - interesting post - i have also wondered if people were jealous of bett's beauty.

however, Joan is just as beautiful, and sometimes just as mean, yet she is adored by MM fans. remember when she compared peggy to stiff drink- OUCH- or the S2 exchange with Kinsey - DOUBLE OUCH

I think we see the difference by the reaction the two woman have when they are hurting. Betty tends to show her hurt by lashing out at don or the kids or whoever is there to take it (william or francine) while joan tends to have these solitary moments when she cries. Joan can appear more vulnerable and alone.

Great thoughts j9mac. You're so right-- maybe it is more to do with their style of reacting to pain. Joan does seem to have more of a sensitive, vulnerable side while Betty is somewhat brittle.

ITA that Joan and Betty can both be equally sharp-tongued at times. I like Joan a lot overall, but when Peggy confided to her in Season 1 about sexual harassment from the guys in the office, I thought Joan's response was very cruel-- "You're the new girl and you're not much, so you might as well enjoy it while it lasts"...? Having been in similar situations re: unwanted attention and not knowing how to cope with it, I really wished Joan had tried to offer poor Peggy a word of advice or support at that moment. It's not like she had any reason to feel threatened by her.

Sorry to get OT for a sec, but the baby in your avatar is sooooo precious!

thanks bluegirl - don't mind getting OT when it's about my kids :-) Sometimes I think Betty resorts to bullying Don because he is so secretive and emotionally reserved. it is as if she is testing him to see how far she can push him away before he really leaves - poor Sally is morphing into the class bully because she watches it at home.

Haven't read through this complete thread...but here's my take.
That romantic weekend in Rome, where Don was again totally smitten, along with every other man including Connie....was Betty's fantasy of a romantic weekend. It never really happened. Don and Betty don't relate the way that couple did. Don hasn't had delicious sex with Betty since she told him back in the first series that she waited for this, (sex) with him. That statement /revelation appalled him. Typically he has a madonna /whore complex.....his ideal wife wouldn't be masterbating with the washing machine and /or prick teasing a minor politician.

Betty is very hung up on her physical attraction and not at all developing any part of herself that would give her real confidence. Therefore she has to imagine herself as irrisistably cool, sexual unattainable blonde eye candy....destined to be left at age forty for a younger version of herself.
JMHO

@ Dixiegirl, I think it is difficult to identify precisely how a couple relates. Marriage is a dynamic state. Attraction, desire, intimacy and a host of other feelings exist in marriage. There is waxing and waning of emotions over time. Don could easily overlook the attractiveness of his own wife but see it acutely in the eyes of the Italian men. I completely agree that Don views women as either Madonna or whore. However, Don's simplistic view of women do not make them so.

Betty is married to a wealthy, ambitious man. She has every reason to be hung up on physical attraction. Being attractive is part of her job along with being a mother to three kids and doing every other chore of maintaining a lovely home for Don and family.

Betty has the confidence and the social ability to charm a man as powerful as Conrad Hilton. She is exactly the ideal wife for Don. She has never been sexually unattainable to Don. She clearly wants him and always has. I'm simply unable to understand the lack of sympathy for Betty.

Robert,
Yes, I'm staying in NY for two weeks at my father's townhouse on Beekman Place but must return to Moscow because I'm in my fifth and final year at University. All young Russian girls can speak English to a degree and I have studied it since I was 12 and also spent a year in London at the London School of Economics too so my English is perfect. Did you say that you were 52? I'm 20 and prefer a more mature man so perhaps we can go to the place you recommended on Friday. Call me.

Annushka

Opps! Ignore that. It should have been e-mail.
Sorry

@katie: I tend to agree with you, and would like to add that Betty is possibly tired of being Don's arm candy and wants to move beyond the "housewife" persona as well. All this dissatisfaction spills over onto the kids and Don. Her reservoir project was a move in the right direction but she's already to call it quits because of her attraction to Henry Francis.
Although,she played up the femme fatale thing pretty well in Italy, Betty is searching for meaning and a chance to demonstrate her smarts, IMO.
I'd also have to say that Betty is not bipolar. She pretty much stays at the same level of poutiness (interspersed with moments of happiness) rather than spring from depression to manic and then back down to depression. Is she spoiled? I think she's accustomed to a certain level of comfort, but that's just because no other level has ever existed for her. We've seen her cooking, papering shelves, doing laundry and now sterilizing baby bottles. Do princesses do those things? I don't know, but I am well aquainted with a couple of women in my family not half so rich and beautiful as Betty who think that the world should be at their beck and call....very spoiled indeed.

@katie: I tend to agree with you, and would like to add that Betty is possibly tired of being Don's arm candy and wants to move beyond the "housewife" persona as well. All this dissatisfaction spills over onto the kids and Don. Her reservoir project was a move in the right direction but she's already to call it quits because of her attraction to Henry Francis.
Although,she played up the femme fatale thing pretty well in Italy, Betty is searching for meaning and a chance to demonstrate her smarts, IMO.
I'd also have to say that Betty is not bipolar. She pretty much stays at the same level of poutiness (interspersed with moments of happiness) rather than spring from depression to manic and then back down to depression. Is she spoiled? I think she's accustomed to a certain level of comfort, but that's just because no other level has ever existed for her. We've seen her cooking, papering shelves, doing laundry and now sterilizing baby bottles. Do princesses do those things? I don't know, but I am well aquainted with a couple of women in my family not half so rich and beautiful as Betty who think that the world should be at their beck and call....very spoiled indeed.

@Anya-your pandering on a public website. You are so obvious, Mr. Anya. Get lost, or get some balls & be a man, chicken!

Hello all, I am new here. Bluegirl, I am also sympathetic to Betty, although I can easily see why many people are not! She obviously is suffering from some sort of disorder that probably wasn't recognized then but could be managed today. Having said that, she is a bit of a spoiled princess too! What was the comment Grandpa Gene made to her about being a housecat? She is very important but without much to do? Maybe that comment played a part in her new found interest in polictics?

Jolie: I've lived in the area back then and these Junior League projects were just a way to kill time and socialize for bored housewives like volunteering to raise money for charities, riding, tennis, playing bridge or mah jong. It's like they had to invent ways to keep from being bored since the maids did most of the real work.

JeanM, I wasn't around then so I can't say you are right or wrong as far as "real life". In previous episodes Helen Bishop was very interested in JFK and his campaign. As a matter of fact, she was working on something related to the campaign when Betty watched her son and gave him the piece of her hair. I believe she had even given Betty a pamphlet about him.

Anya-It's BoyToy, can't you read? Get off of my thread you disguised troll. You are so obvious! Pander your BS elsewhere, nobody wants you here.
OOPS, thought I was posting on Craig's List!

dearmrs: Helen looked liked the exception. I don't recall if she had a real job or was just supported by her previous husband. She may have had a job to supplement the bulk of the money her ex was giving her because she was living in an expensive area in a big house with just her son. My mother told me that many women would do volunteer work and political work so they could look for a new husband since there were few places a woman could go to find a man back then.So perhaps it wasn't JFK she cared about and just a new man. Unattached women were looked on with suspicion and the other women kept away from them fearing that they would steal their husband. I guess times have not really changed much.

haha Don's the one who is bi-polar or manic at least.

Jean: Of course Helen was the exception. Women in the US are not really interested in politics unless it's about some politician who is promising them something. Helen was most likely just using this Kennedy canpaign as a pretext to meet men. I know from personal experience when I was in France that when there was a demonstration against Bush that if I asked any girl there why she was protesting, she couldn't give me a rational answer. Just said, that there was a party after the demonstration where there would be men.

JeanM, Helen Bishop had a job working in a jewelry store.

Welcome, dearmrsmiller.

Blue Runner, interesting comment about Don. Not sure I agree though-- when had he had a manic episode? However I feel Don is probably afflicted with a mild case of PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder) due to his abuse as a child and experiences in the war. We've seen him disassociate and compartmentalize quite a bit (re: the flashbacks and juggling his dual identities). Both indications of PTSD.

People who have manic depression quite often self medicate with booze or drugs and are very promiscuous at times. They have periods of high highs and then they go through very low lows ,which leaves them with the feelings of self loath. Very Don Draper.

Blue Runner: you just described 90% of the posters on here.
And Don does not have any mood swings that are of any consequence. None of these people you see at SC would be classified as alcoholics either.

Is that why the world is the way it is today! Promiscuity is more rampant than ever~never accounted it to being manic depressive. Interesting...

Toy: perhaps if you had a better understanding of history and went to a real University you would know better. We're actually living in one of the most sedate periods of history and the least sexual.Even with your minimal education you must have seen Romeo and Juliet. Juliet was 13 and wanted to get married and was certainly having sex with Romeo.We're actually living in a very sexually repressed world today and in fact, society is totally repressive today with laws against practically anything you can think of,from having drinking ages, laws against drugs, and crazy age of consent laws that can be 18 in some places.

Bertha-if you had a single bone in your body that wasn't perverted, as I've read it is, then maybe your brain would work just a little. Where were you educated, New Hampshire? Blue was speaking about promiscuity and you went & equated the quote to 90% of the posters. How could you possibly come up with such an idiotic percentage of people's sexuality by a webthread?

What laws about promiscuity are there? Now you're bringing in such nonsense of drinking ages blahblahblah, when that is not even the subject! Do you know how to control your ADHD? 'The least sexual' you say-it's being shoved down our throats every day, every show. It's all out there now and it's disgusting. You know.

OK Don has an intense serious passion for having sex not only with his wife, but with other women. He truly desires having a happy little family,his family. So he's not unhappy and looking for something better. That's not normal behavior,so why does he do it? Maybe he's not manic....sex addict possibly?
Betty, I think is partly acting out because of the feelings and doubts she has from the infidelity in her marriage. And if any of you have ever been with a cheat you know that it causes you to act and think irrationality. Even if you are in the dark about it something eats at you instinctively.

@Bluerunner: I agree with you 100%. Infidelity tainted Betty's view of her marriage and has slowly ebbed away at her happiness. Her choices are slim of ever getting away from Don and though she may still love him, she goes through the motions waiting for the other shoe to drop. Betty probably wonders if Don cheats while she's so young and pretty, what will happen when she gets older and less attractive? Will she be a "Mona"...a divorced older woman? I know what it feels like to be cheated on, and it's like a depressing dark cloud....always wondering if it was YOUR fault...never being able to really trust your partner again. I think that's why she's looking at someone like Henry Francis, who she may regard as much more honorable than Don.
Others have mentioned that perhaps Don yearns for powerful women...that somehow Betty is "shallow". Don's choices don't impress me though: Meg, the beetnik, Rachel Menken, rich girl who had everything handed to her and Bobbie, ex-stripper.....oh and then the stewardess. Have there been others? I've lost track.