I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THIS

I would like real time chat for this program.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN TO BETTY

After the teacher's late night prank calls are hung up on by Don and she starts appearing at his home, work, and even his meetings, I would like Betty to divorce his philandering ass. Then I would like to see her marry a man who really appreciates her and treats her like a queen. Or I would like to see her get a job and start taking care of her family by herself. Either would satisfy me.

in episode 11 doesn't anyone

find it funny that Don would tell Betty "you have about $200 in your bank account so you should be good"

Happy Halloween to all Maddicts!

Your Post

Musical theme for Suzanne Farrell

What is the name of, and where can I download, the gorgeous piano leitmotif/theme that plays when Suzanne Farrell appears in an episode?

Memo To Matt Weiner From The Madaddicts Posting On The Open Thread

Believe it or not, posters on The Open Thread have some complaints and suggestions. Here they are:

Is Mad Men "racist?"

An occasional visitor to our GradSem, D'Thommas, angrily denounces Mad Men for its "marginalization of Afrimericans." DT, as we all know him, is outraged that the show's black characters are elevator operators and house servants. Known throughout campus for his low-riding trousers and aggrieved rants about "races (sic "racist") slave-traders" in our faculty and administration, DT is not at all placated by hearing that his "peopolds" were in fact low-level service workers in the early 1960s. This show, he screeches hoarsely, in on the air in 2009. History, he demands, must be "re-done" to advance the "Constitutional imperatives of otherness." Should next season's cast be 20% African-Americans, including the Sterling Cooper executives and the Drapers' Westchester County neighbors, as DT insists?

Prices in 1963

Does anyone know the price of a martini in 1963?

The infamous pink elephant - where else is it found?

Here is your challenge...We know a pink elephant was on the mantle at Pete's mom's house. Where else does a pink elephant appear?

The Return of the Teacher

I am not sure what future Matt Weiner has planned for Don and his teacher, but if he wants to bring her back at some time in the next few years, he has a perfectly good and plausible excuse. There is a very good chance that Bobby will be in her class some day. I can't remember what grade she teaches, but I can certainly imagine Bobby telling his father some night at dinner(assuming Don asks him how school went that day) "I'm going to have Miss Farrell for my teacher next year. Sally says she is really nice." The parent/teacher conferences will take on a whole new meaning.

Do You Know Of Fairness Doctrine?

Why in a free country is there censorship on here? I thought television is controlled by FCC.

Rethinking Miss Farrell

Hello dearest Maddicts,
I've since watched the last episode 'The Hobo & The Gypsy' twice now, which what I normally like to do, to take it all in, spin it around in my brain a bit, and then reflect on all the little nuances, the growth in the characters, plot lines, etc. There was SO much to love in this last episode, it was harder for me to digest it in one piece...and so, just like my meals, I took smaller bite sized pieces, and mulled a few of the ingredients on my palette.
One thing I keep coming back to is Miss Farrell, or Suzanne, if you will.
Leave it to Weiner and his writing talent to create tension and build up, in regards to someone I summed up to be a 'bunny boiler'. The little things she said that made my head spin around, the little possessive inserts towards Don, the unknown caller at the Drapers that resulted in a hang-up, the way she narrowed her eyes at Don and wrapped her arms around him possessively....that was it. I was sold: hook, line and sinker, she was the perfect storm that wreak havoc over Don's life.
But she didn't.
In fact, in the last pillow talk session they had, she pulled away from Don, telling him she walked into it with her eyes wide open, and to let the feeling pass. What threw me for a loop was that it was DON reeling her back in, telling her HE didn't want it to pass, and asking her to take a week off from work, so that they could spend time together!
From that conversation, and when she ducked down in the front seat, as Don went inside, what worried me is that she might come up to the house and look inside the kitchen window, thus catching Betty's eye, where the fit would REALLY hit the shan for Don. But I quickly dismissed that, as the secret box scene was already a huge event and enough drama for the moment...but I did wonder, while all that was going on inside, what Suzanne would do...would she leave a note, wait a bit longer...what would she do??
Again, I was happily surprised to see she slipped out of the car when the coast was clear, and headed home. I felt that she knew something big was going on inside, and it was best if she not complicate the situation.
When Don ended it with her (well, he said "for now")over the phone, I thought, though she was tearful, and it was pretty clear to me Suzanne had fallen in love with Don, she stepped away gracefully. There wasn't a fight, or any big dramatic scene. I loved that she asked Don if he was ok. A selfish person, as I initially thought her to be, would never ask "Are YOU ok?", but they would be simply concerned with how this would affect them.
I was really impressed with Suzanne, and I've rethought my whole opinion of her, that she's actually a good person, who is probably lonely, and longs for the type of life that Betty and the other mothers around her have.
I'm still shaking my head at the 180 degree shift Suzanne took in my whole estimation of her!
What are your thoughts about her, Maddicts? I'm curious to hear your feedback on this!

SONGS FROM 1964

http://www.ask.com/bar?q=who+sang+that+song&page=1&qsrc=178&dm=all&ab=1&title=Who+Sang+That+Song+You%27re+Wondering+About%3F+Find+Out+Here.&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.who-sang-that-song.com%2F&sg=1OIDseTJC%2FqhQ4uwaMZvhXVicp%2FydFy%2BCZlmHITiqjM%3D&tsp=1256870284335

Whether you're a Betty Draper-lover, hater, or in-between...here's a must read article. See link in "Comments."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2009/10/complexity_beauty_and_the_unde.html

JFK Assassination Memories

I am especially interested in memories of people born in 1956 & 1957, but please post even if you weren't born in those 2 years. Please say how old you were.

Memo To Matt Weiner From The Open Thread Madaddicts

This may surprise you, Mr. Weiner, but fans of the show, posting on The Open Thread, are doing some serious complaining and would like to be heard. The following suggestions are just our way to say, "Please let us help you with the writing of Season 4". Here's some suggestions of what we'd like to see:

The Beatles! 1964 Ed Sullivan Show Memories

The Beatles arrived in the U.S., for their first time as a group, in February 1964. Their first appearance was on CBS' The Ed Sullivan Show on February 9, 1964. fter the show's opening, Ed read a telegram he said had been sent to The Beatles by Elvis Presley, welcoming them to the United States, and wishing them "Good LucK". The Beatles were thrilled because Elvis was one of their early Rock & Roll idols (especially John). The Beatles performed the following songs on the show: "All My Loving", "'Til There Was You" (without knowing it, their first names had been inserted at the bottom of the TV screen, as each was given a close-up) and "She Loves You". There was then a break for the "Liverpool Lads", while the rest of the show went on. They returned from the lackluster beginning, with a " hard rocker" which always brought down the house: "I Saw Her Standing There". Refreshed, & no longer nervous, they sang, screamed, shook their heads which made their "Beatle cuts" go flying (every boy in America suddenly felt his crew cut start to grow) and stamped their feet on the stage. Their stamping was an homage to their early days playing in Hamburg, Germany, where, when they were booked into the same strip club as Rory Storm & The Hurricanes (which featured the best drummer on the Liverpool Merseybeat:, Richard Starkey, Jr., or Ringo Starr, as he was known), also from Liverpool, & had a standing bet w/ the Hurricanes to see which group could stamp a hole in the rotting wood stage first (The Hurricanes won.) George Harrison was seriously ill while on The Ed Sullivan Show's stage. The minute that The Beatles arrived in America, George became ill w/ the flu, and his sister, who lived in St. Louis, was flown-up to take care of George, while The Beatles stayed at the Plaza Hotel. That night on stage, during their performance of "I Saw Her Standing There", George, who had been injected w/ so many amphetamines by the hotel doctor so that he could actually stand and perform, felt the speed hit right during this song's performance, and in an unforgetable spirited performance, plays his guitar solo w/ great enthusiasm. For Richard Starkey Jr.,his performance during this version of "I Saw You Standing There", was his personal favorite, and the filmed and Live performance is that which he considers his best Live performance ever. As he is drumming, Ringo can be seen having the greatest time of his life, and he can clearly be seen yelling "Whoa" and "Yeah". The Beatles finish their second set w/ "I Want To Hold Your Hand". When their manager made the deal to have this song recorded, the record company execs insisted Brian Epstein sign a deal that the song would sell 700,0000 copies, in order to be a bona fide hit. Epstein signed the contract w/ his hand shaking. Could his boys do it? In the early new year, of 1964, the Lennon and McCartney single, "I Want To Hold Your Hand", sold 13 Million copies, worldwide. I was on the floor in front of the TV set on February 9, 1964, at age 7, because my 9 year old sister and 11 year old sister, were there, too! I've always been grateful that they included me as one of the 76 Million people who watched The Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show that night. What are your memories of the show and The Beatles? Which cast members of mad Men will be watching The Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show, and why? What are their reactions to The Beatles?

ADT Recap 11

Grab your horse kabobs and a clean pair of underpants. ADT Recap 11 is up. Link in comments.

Haloweening 1960's style.

I grew up in the early 1960's and was Sally's age in 1963. It was a small town to be sure, but PARENTS were never along for Halloween! We travelled to three or four streets other than our own. Always looking for the house that gave the best candy.
But parents? No way ,they would only cramp our style! I realize the world was safer back then But MM is set during this time and I just thought Don and Betty going with the kids was not keeping with the realism. At least that was my experience as a kid. I can even remember what I wore in '63. It was a Cleopatra costime with a mask that looked like Elizabeth Taylor! That movie was big that year. I'd love to hear from all the talented posters...your thoughts/comments/memories.
And...HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!

Bring Sal Back

I think it was unfair to write Sal out of the show like that. I'm starting a petition for people who think that Sal should be brought back on the show. I for one thing he was a vital part of the Sterling cooper team.

who's with me

IT'S TIME FOR BETTY'S MISDEEDS TO BE AIRED

I read about all of the sympathy for Betty on this message board. Let's not forget that she had her affairs as well. And I do mean that in plural. Kissing another man counts as infidelity in my eyes. Don is walking around thinking he has this innocent child-like woman at home raising his children, when Betty has such a devious, hidden side. I will never forget how she set up her friend to have an affair. She has her good moments, but Don needs to know that he isn't the only one that has disrespected their marriage. After watching the last episode, I was shocked how cold and unaffectionate she was when Don was crying. What woman who loves her man wouldn't reach for him and hold him in her arms. That was Don in his weakest moment and all she could do was lay a hand on his shoulder like a distant stranger. This marriage is as empty as it can be with two self absorbed characters. I like the new storyline with Roger and Annabelle a lot more than watching Don and Betty fake their marriage.

What brand hat does Don wear?

Dobbs or Knox? Mad Men is happening at the time the men's hat business started a quick death.

what is your favorite MM scene from each season?

ok - saw this question posted on fb and thought i would put it out on the boards as well. I'll get the conversation started and post my three fav scenes.

Since MW and his crew of all star writers still have two epis left to wow us, i have to say that as of today, the maypole scene is one of the most beautiful and provocative pieces of television i have ever watched. Sally in her white dress with blue sash and don the image of male perfection in his aviators, and of course, the sensual stroke of grass that had so many of us talking!

season 2 would be the infamous dinner when don showed bobby who was calling the shots. so shocking i asked my husband if AMC was cable television! later in the epi, betty endearingly tells don they made a great team, and for the first time i felt truly sad for betty.

season 1 betty getting to "know" her washing machine - the irony of don being an "adonis" in the bedroom yet so out of touch with his wife's needs. i'm sure don would never expect his wife to find her own version of the "relaxacisor" .

Mad Men Kaffe Klatch

What will we be eating and drinking?

For Advertising Purists

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/business/media/26adnewsletter2.html?_r=1&8ad&emc=seiaa2

She May Be Spoiled!!!!!!

Betty made/sewed those Halloween Costumes!!!!!!!!!!

ARE YOU DRINKING THE REAL STOLI?

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2006/gb20060407_359060.htm

Calling all Mad Men aficionados!

Will you help me to win a Walk On Role on Mad Men?
I am in the final round, and I need to be in the top ten to be considered by Mathew Weiner to appear on the show! Isn't that exciting?

Here's how you can check out my video and VOTE:

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men-contest-2009/2009/10/ycbmm-09-taylor-renee-campbell-joan-finalist.php

Thanks and I will pay the kindness forward!

Taylor Renee Campbell

Betty bitchslapped Don!

Wow! What riveting television this past episode. Betty took no prisoners when she took Don to task for his long tenure of deception! That scene was powerful.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE

Don stops cheating on his wife and he concentrates on his family and career. Roger can pick up where he left off with Joan but only a more serious romance that leads to marriage. The child Roger married goes back to Trenton. We see more of Roger's mother. We see more of Bert. The limeys go away and Duck drowns along with Peggy.

Random Miss Farrell thought...

If Betty and the kids hadn't returned from Philly early, Don and Suzanne would've been cozying up in Norwich. Now I know that Don can skip off from work for days on end, but how easy would it be for a schoolteacher in those days? And even if she could get away from work, I thought it kind of weird that Suzanne -- who despite her faults seems to truly love nurturing children's minds -- would cut work and leave town and miss Halloween, such a magical and important day in a kiddie calendar.

Favorite Halloween Costume

Stroll down memory lane with me to the days when you planned and created your Halloween costume at home with the help of your mother, father or other creative neighborhood person.

What costume were you wearing in 1963, or what costume was your favorite during your childhood years? I'm most interested in hearing about those costumes made at home (not purchased from retail stores). Who made the costume for you? Did you ever wish to be something at Halloween and never had your wish fulfilled? Or, did you have costume envy where you had to wear something you didn't like while someone (or everyone) else was wearing something you felt was really 'neat!'

Tell us about it!.....

Follow all 50+ Mad Men on Twitter on one site

Maybe some of you are interested in this, maybe not, but here is a link to follow all the Mad Men on twitter at one location: http://www.madmentwitter.com

"Are you having anything"

Is this the first time Don seemed to respect Betty? The look on Sally D's face was priceless. Is there hope for Don...Has coming clean to Betty exorcised the demons???? In the end as the neighbor said "And who are you supposed to be!!!!!"

A DISHONEST MAN LIVES HERE

When that teacher got up with her suitcase and left her hiding place (the car), it reminded me of the hobo leaving Don'ts father's house. Only he wasn't a sneaky person. The only thing that sneaky woman didn't do was leave a mark outside Don's house. Unless you can consider her the mark outside the Draper household because their neighbors might have seen her ducking down in the car like the predator she is.

Season 3/Episode 12 Opening Scene Predictions/Don & Betty predictions/R

Your Post

A Most Telling Line....

I agree with so many posters that this was one of the best episodes yet. It was so dense with story and character and was a lot to absorb. There is so much to comment on, but one line in particular really resonated with me. When Greg tells Joan he's joined the Army, he says that he will be sent somewhere, maybe Viet Nam, "if that's still going on"....A very pointed piece of dialogue, that says without saying, what was to come; a 14 year, never-declared, senseless war.

AWARD WINNING EPISODE OF THE SEASON ON SO MANY LEVELS

Oct 25th ep was the best of the season. Don Hamm deserves an award. I 've always liked the teacher. I felt sorry for her waiting in the car. I just knew that when Don was upstairs and he said "I'm in here Betts" and the camera zoomed to the doorway there was an anticipiation, i wanted it to be Suzanne walking up the stairs, but it turned out to be Betty. Talk about climatic. She had no idea Betty and the kids would be back so soon, I thought she would have gone in to see what was taking him so long.
I think at some point Don and Betty will end up divorced. I want them divorced by SERIES end, which i hope is not for a long time. I dont' see them being that "perfect" couple together at home, maybe as a facad like now.. I don't think she is the love of his life. She fits the role he lives.
I believe when Roger told Annabelle she wasnt the one, he wasnt thinking of his new wife but of Joan. Hopefully they will end up together.
I think that Greg will soon end up or missing in Vietnam. The closing scene will be Joan reading a telegram of his ...end scene. OR either a shot of two Army personnel walking up to her door , she opens the door and just the look on her face ends the scene. End of story line for Greg. Joanie goes back to SC and finds love once again with Roger. I think they both love each other.

SEASON 4 WISH LIST

Everybody would appreciate if for Peggy to be dropped from the show between seasons. No cause to explain her absence of kill off the character. Just let her be gone bye-bye. The Peggy character was an attempt which has failed. Don, upwardly mobile spawn of a trailertrash redneck and a gas-station hooker, wishes to mock Sterling Cooper by infiltrating a fellow low-class, uneducated pretender. He chooses Peggy because she personifies the downscale prole -- bluecollar urban high school, un-stylisn clothes and shoes, home-perm hair, drugstore makeup, slightly lumpen physique. The casting and wardrobe may have worked all too well. Peggy remains ineffably outerborough, eternally secretarial. She belongs in that huge windowless clerical corral so superbly presented by Mike Nichols in "Working Girl." Or waiting on the counter at Guido's All-Night Diner. But never in a window office in Midtown. Just go back across that Brooklyn Bridge, Peggy. The harder you try, the more incongruous you are.

Joan Rules!

Its about time she laid the smack down on that whiney loser she married.

The Kennedy Assassination

November 22, 1963 was a very dark day yet I'm finding myself looking more and more forward to how it will be handled by MW. The Kennedy Assasination has been a subtly growing tensile thread through the narrative of the entire season but it seems there is no good way to approach it. I think that it will have to be as Fred2 said a sort of backdrop to the story but with the characters so heavily involved in their own lives I can't see it being more than that, and yes it has to happen in the first 5 minutes or the last 5. And if in the first five we will catch the action after the fact mid crisis. Perhaps season four opening with the Beatles Feb 9, 1964. But I think that would be a bit too "Wonder Years" .

Please slow down: a humble request to the show's creators

Hello. First off, I would like to say that Mad Men is my favorite show on television; in fact, it is the only television show that I watch regularly. I came in about mid-way through last season and since then I have not missed an episode. You have achieved remarkable success on two fronts: you have achieved a very high standard of period detail and you have created excellent dramatic interaction amongst the characters. Most importantly, each element succeeds without relying on the other for secondary effect.

So many present day productions set in the 1950s or 1960s have struggled to create intelligent drama and nearly all of them have failed because they were either inattentive to detail or they allowed the period to dictate the drama rather than let the characters create it.

What concerns me is the speed at which the show is approaching the latter half of the 1960s, a period in time when this country almost shook itself apart due to its many divisions. I was too young to remember it clearly. Perhaps that is for the best, because by many accounts it was a very unpleasant time for America. And that story has been told and retold against the backdrop of a number of dramatic pretenses, mostly because it makes for easy drama. By now though, it is also very tired. We all know the story. It's been done.

Stylistically, the period detail of the late 1960s is still very prevalent and familiar in today's culture. That's what makes your emphasis on the details of the early 1960s so striking. It's almost totally unfamiliar. Having the characters interact in such unfamiliar territory allows us to relate to them without the familiar baggage of the late 1960s weighing the whole thing down and dictating the drama. So far, with only a few exceptions, you have avoided this trap. However, history appears poised to challenge you.

The show is currently moving into November 1963, and the events of that month and year are well known to many people. Some of them believe that it was those events that triggered much of the history that followed. With regard to the show's characters, I can't help but wonder what is going to happen to them as they get entangled in that history. Maybe it is better that their fates are left to our imagination.

I ask that you please consider slowing the show's time clock down and allow us to savor the unfamiliar and relish in the genuine drama a little longer.

Thanks.

Famous Characters in literature that resemble Don Draper...

I read a comment on one of these a while ago comparing Don to a famous character in American fiction. My mind slips me on the name and the author but it is a very well known story and the comparison to Don is spot on.

This character's parents died and he abandoned his past and reinvented himself as a success. Basically an embodiment of the most extreme example of the American dream. Does ANYONE know who I'm talking about if I could figure this out it would give my mind a huge rest, thanks.

Other

Your Post

Confessions of Mad Men

Don's confession to Betty is getting all the attention--with good reason. But isn't it interesting to note the contrast between that confession and the one Greg made to Joan?

Don's confession was big, dramatic, and forced by Betty. Greg, on the other hand, casually volunteered the information to Joan that his father had a nervous breakdown. He then flippantly said something like, "I can't believe I never told you that before."

The wives' reactions differed, too. Betty couldn't help but to comfort Don about his brother. The next day, Betty and Don acted much more considerately toward each other, almost as one would with an acquaintance.

Greg and Joan, on the other hand, were operating on different planes. Greg whined, and Joan snapped and hit him over the head with a vase.

And let's not forget that a few episodes back, Pete "confessed" his most recent infidelity to Trudy without saying a word, and this seemed to bring them closer.

What do you think all of these confessions mean for the characters' relationships?

Mad Men Dinner

We are going to have a Mad Men dinner for the season finale. The drink will be a Scotch Old Fashioned. The salad will be an Iceberg Wedge with bleu cheese. The entree will be Beef Stroganoff. Any other ideas from this Mad crowd?

How many loose threads will fit in two episodes?

For the love of Paul's beard, I need to know what happened to Sal.

Any other plot lines eating away at people? What gets closure and what doesn't?

...and how long did she sit in the car??????

How long did she wait in teh car before realizing that Don wasn't available for comment????

The Hobo and the Gypsy

I noted a lot of questioning about who's the hobo and who is the gypsy (outside of the costumed kids); some suggested Suzanne and her brother--but her absent brother (1) wasn't in the episode and (2) isn't a hobo. A hobo wants to be on the move. Suzanne's brother is forced to be on the move because of his epilepsy. Which is why I'd vote the Hobo and Gypsy as being Don and Suzanne. Suzanne is attractive to Don because she is a free spirit like he is, but she's much more "exotic" and spiritual, more the gypsy. Of course, there's also a possibility that the title suggests Betty confrontation of Don about his first "wife" Anna--a tarot card reader.

The hobo, however, is most certainly Don, as he has been labeled so, metaphorically speaking, from the first time we see him learning lessons about the hobo code from an actual hobo. But the show went even farther this particular episode to make sure we got the connection.

After his confession to Betty, he is washing up and he looks at himself in the mirror. We feel this is the first time he's looking at himself and seeing the real him not the Don Draper mask he tries to wear 24/7. The man he sees in the mirror has a very heavy 5 O'Clock shadow. Just like we see in old Hollywood movie stereotypes of Hobos. Just the way bobby has his face done up for Halloween.

The gypsy may be a question, but the Hobo is Don.

Don's Night of Reckoning

a review of 3.11, the episode that changes everything

Drapers' Address in Ossining?

I was driving through Ossining the other day and suddenly wondered if the address that was printed on Don's contract in "Seven Twenty-three" was an actual address. Could someone possibly freeze frame the scene in which he's signing to see what the address is? Unfortunately I deleted that episode already. Thanks so much!!

Don Draper Alias

what season and episode did Pete Campbell discover Don uses an alias?

St Margaret, Patron Saint of Hoboes

I just came across something about St Margaret of Cortona and it states she is the patron saint of:

The falsely accused; hoboes; homeless; insane; orphaned; mentally ill; midwives; penitents; single mothers; reformed prostitutes; third children; tramps.

I just thought it was interesting as it sorta ties in to various characters of Mad Men...and of course there is our Margaret "Peggy" Olsen. Peggy is from a Catholic family, perhaps she was named after St Margaret of Cortona!

He joins the ARMY? Yeah, right.

Gay.

Mad Men takes another journey into the absurd after Joanie's little boy, "my son, the doctor," (this IS after all, how the character is written and played) first wants to be a surgeon, then a shrink, and now, on to a different playtime game: let's play SOLDIERS!! Yay! I can be a surgeon AND a soldier at the same time! Yippee!!

In their never-ceasing quest to portray straight white males as corrupt or overgrown juveniles, we are supposed to believe this bizarre turn of events. "Sure, I may have to go to Nam, but that will be over soon..." or such childish words to that effect. Thus, the good people of the creative team want us to believe that this "kid," who managed to graduate med school, convince the all-knowing, all-seeing, wisest of wise, Queen Joan, that he was "the one," is now going to join the Army out of a desperate and peurile desire to be play with his favorite toys, uh, that is, become a surgeon.

On another topic, Don becomes more and more corrupt, while Cooper, perhaps the MOST corrupted soul on the planet, shows some "integrity," by refusing the advances of an old flame? Hah? Betts, find Don's "stuff,"??? Is this, "Mad Men," or "Days of Our Lives"??? Gee, you think Luke and Laura will get back together again?!??

November 22, 1963 - How will they handle it? Thougts

The dreadful and tragic day still fresh and unhealed in our collective national heart is swiftly approaching our As our unsuspecting Mad Men characters go about their daily (and nightly) business. How deftly will Weiner handle this topic considering most scenarios are predictable and cliché. It obviously has been reserved for the final episode of season 3 or has it? Roger's daugther's wedding is scheduled for 11-23-63 which leads me to believe a juxtaposition of a wedding and a funeral ( but not in the Michael Corleone sense). I'm wondering if it will be addressed in episode 1 of season 4 instead.

Betty

So Betty wasn't just sitting with that box and drinking wine. She actually went out and had another set of keys made. I am so proud of her! In the scene where Betty confronted Don, she seemed older to me, more like a grown woman and less like a spoiled daddy's girl. She was truly a woman wondering just who this man is she has suddenly found herself married to. Great job by January Jones.

Call me sentimental

but I have never eaten horsemeat and do not expect to in this lifetime. Of course, I have never been starving either , and as they say, desperate times call for desperate measures. I pray I will never be that desperate. What about my fellow Maddicts. Have any of you eaten horsemeat?

It's insensitive to stereotype hobos and gypsys.

This is beyond the pale, I mean really. Has our society become so callous that we accept depictions of the homeless as objects of ridicule?

note to fellow Maddicts

Dear MM friends, if you're tired of scrolling past many pointless, sometimes offensive, off-topic posts that clutter up the board and hinder real discussion of MM, and you just want to chat respectfully and thoughtfully about the show, then you'll fit right in at the new Sterling Cooper board on Yahoo.

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/sterlingcooper/

It's civilized. On-topic. Active moderators who care. It's very refreshing. Hope to see you there.

Stupefyin' Joan!

Wow, I could watch that rat doctor get conked on the head all night! How satisfying was that? Roger still loves her, and I think he is just finding that out. It wasn't Mona or Jane he was thinking about when he told Annabelle she wasn't "the one" for him.

Who Cares about Annabelle Whatshername?

I hate all this needless introduction of new characters when we've been waiting so long for the threads of other stories to be continued. Comments?

KEEP THE MAIN THREAD TROLL-FREE!

Some people want to jump ship, but don't back down. This is the real AMC/MadMen site. Be careful who you respond to, they're popping up like wild-fire.

AVOID THE TROLLS, JOIN NOW

Private Yahoo Group - Join Now

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Email address required. Membership approval required. Join with your screen name to ease recognition. If we don't recognize you, you may not be added, so give us lots of info.

Dissenting opinions welcome. Anyone trolling will be deleted.

New group. It's safe there.

Season 3 Episode 10 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 3, Episode 10, "The Color Blue."

music, season 2 hall of the mountain king

there is a country song at the end of the Hall of the Mountain King episode. I have the CD sound track and the song is not on it. I would like to know who the artist is, what the song is, etc. Anybody know?

Private Yahoo Group - Join Now

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Dissenting opinions welcome. Anyone trolling will be deleted.

New group. It's safe there.

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AB = A + B

A is Annabelle.
A is Anna.
B is Betty.
Annabelle is the classiness and demure of Anna and the beauty of Betty. It would have been more obvious if Annabelle was Anna Beth. I believe Don will try hard to win Annabelle. He definitely has to get that account so he'd better quit messin' with Suzanne who by the way is....Suz---'anne'......

Jon Hamm as James Mason

I just watched a clip of the "Vincent Price Halloween Special" skit that was done on Saturday Night Live last year. Jon Hamm was terrific as James Mason. A total hoot and a half! He should have gotten an Emmy for this performance alone. The whole skit was very funny, and becauseHalloween is fast approaching, I thought it would be nice if one of my fellow Maddicts with the know how would post a link so anyone who hasn't seen this skit could enjoy it. I would do so myself, but I am totally computer illiterate. Thanks in advance to whomever can do this.

Is Mad Men hung up on sex?

An intriguing question was posed by Chloe, one of the most insightful students in our graduate seminar: Is Mad Men preoccupied, perhaps gratuitously, with sex? She describes the show as "that soap opera where everybody is mounting everybody else, or thinking about it.."

Mad Men - WTF happened?

First, about me so you know what kind of background me as a consumer of your show has. I am a 36 year old white male who likes the following shows: House, Dexter, True Blood, Criminal Minds and CSI: Las Vegas.

I started watching Mad Men about 3 weeks ago via NetFlix and watched season 1, episode 1 up to season 3, episode 10 or so within the last 3 weeks. I watched about s3e5 to s3e10 tonight. I was a very big fan up until the last 4 episodes or so and this is why.

1. My favorite part of the series is the part about the office. Up until recenetly, it's been about 80% office to about 20% side stories. Which has been fine as you can't have good office shows without a bit of side stories. But recently, it's been a soap opera with like 80% side stories and 20% office stories. The last few episodes have been nothing but a soap opera with Don screwing the teacher and Betty messing around with Henery. Nobody wants to see that!! You did not get popular with the side stories so why are you focusing so much on it now???

2. Sal - What a big screw up that was. Did you get some political heat on his homosexuality? Outside of him, Peter, Peggy and the Drapers, you had no side stories to go to. Why throw him to the wolves for him standing up to the bully yet you show that whore Betty messing around? Even though Sal was gay, he had priniciples. You could have gotten dozen of episodes off of him yet we keep seeing Betty embarassing herself begging for attention from every guy she can. Betty is getting annoying like Dexters wife is this season.

3. Editing - WTF?? Half the time when a new show starts, I have no idea what is going on. Peggy having her baby? Peters wife going on vacation (I thought I missed a divorce for 10 minutes or so)? Where did the shrink go to? Don's promotion and then Duck being hired? Did Don get a promotion or not? I thought Duck took over Don's old job but apparently not. I thought Don moved into Rogers office but apparently not. You introduce characters and then you never see them again. Need closure please!! This is probably due to all the different directors/writers so get it together.

4. The foot being cut off. lol, that show was a total waste as it made no sense in the grand scheme of things (see editing above) My wife and I thought it was a big Saturday Night Live skit as it was so off base. I rewound the DVR like 5 times laughing at the stupidity of it.

5. Basically, the show was good until the Brits took over and then the downward spiral started. When Sal got fired and Hilton showed up, the show really turned into a dump. Nothing about Kosgrove, Peggy as been left out, Kingsly and Krane had a few minutes but thats it. Peter had a little bit as well but thats it. No Roger. Joan is gone. All we have is Don and Betty whoring around and it's booorrrringggg!!!! Time to wake up and get back to the action. No soap opera's please!!

6. Why do all TV networks have the worse messageboards? So unorganized and ugly looking I'm suprised you have any dedicated posters. House and Mad Men have the worse ones, I swear. Dexter's messageboard is shit. True Blood's board is shit too. Seriously, look into I.P.Board and phpBB to get a nice looking professional board.

7. Also, what is up with your network or website? I tried for hours to register and right now, I"m writing this post in Notepad to save so I can post it when I can finally register.

8. Ok, I think I'm done for now. Please get back to the office politics and serious writing and stay away from the cheesy soap opera dramas. If every 5 minutes I"m forced to watch Don and the teacher in bed, I'm quiting Mad Men.

Bryan

Betty Haters

Remember, Betty, like Don, is a product of her upbringing. Grandpa Gene told Sally that grandma made Betty walk home from town after running errands because she was fat... no wonder Betty is obsessed with her appearance.
Betty's parents didn't approve of her choice in career (modeling), marriage, and grandpa told her (in his last episode) that he was essentially disappointed with her. Not exactly a warm and fuzzy child hood. No wonder she has difficultly expressing feeling for her children, I am sure she received no affection from her mother and her father treated her like a princess doll, not a real child.
As for her behavior towards Don...she has suspected that he has been cheating (and he has, since before Bobby was born). She has been living with his overnight disappearances, lack of respect, and lame excuses for years.
People are calling her a hypocrite because she had a quickie in a bar, while SEPARATED from Don, after Don confirmed the HUMILATING AFFAIR with Bobby Barrette - are you kidding? She was due!
As for her parenting skills, at least she is responsible. Don leaves, for days (nights) at a time, without even checking in - when he's ducking out on Betty, he is also ducking out on the kids. When he is cheating with Sally's teacher, he isn't just risking his marriage to Betty, he is risking his relationship with his kids, and their happiness; which doesn't seem to bother him one bit.

pantyhose

I did a ton of research on the 60s in college in 77-78, and skirts went way up in 66 but pantyhose did not become mass marketed until the following year. Please re-check your research. Thank you.

VANITY FAIR: Letter from a jealous "Lost" fan!

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars/2009/10/a-lost-ies-letter-to-the-mad-men-fans.html

Season 3/Episode 11 Opening Scene Predictions

Your Post

Just How Old Are We Here?

I *guess* we know each other well enough to ask this? Hope it's not TMI, but I guess I'll start it off. Is it ok if we do it by birth year?

6465NYWF: 1953

Is Ken Normal Man?

I watch this series in English so I don't understand every word.Ken never is seen with a woman and I wonder if he is sexual deviant like Salvatore? Is that correct word? you know like гомосексуально.

podcast review of Mad Men 3.10

6-minute review .... the weakest ink, the strongest television

The line of dialogue that sent a cold chill down my spine

It was Miss Farrell's line to Don, after she had chased him down from the train platform to a seat next to him on the train:

"I don't care about your marriage, I don't care about your work. I just want to know that I'm WITH you."

*Miss Farrell squeezes Don's hand possessively*

Did this line terrify anyone else here? I know it sent a cold chill down my spine, and my guy Craig, who was sitting next to me stopped the episode, and played that part back again, because he thought he heard her incorectly. He then said, shaking his head, "Don, Don, she's trouble with a capital T. Dude, you're in it now!"

Anyone else have the same reaction? If not, was WAS your reaction to this moment? I'm dying to know what my fellow Maddicts felt, when they watched this scene....

Brooks Brothers Mad Men Edition Suit - I GOT ONE

So, call me insane but I just went and dropped my life savings on the Brooks Brothers Mad Men Edition suit. It should be here in about a week.

Anyone else nuts enough to get one?

Pryce, His Wife, Similarities with Don, etc.

It seems that many of the posters here like Pryce. I do, and I was wondering what others thought of his storyline this episode.

First, as open-thread posters like Never Not Tasty and Jhhugo have noted, Pryce's contentment in America may stem from the fact that he comes from a slightly lower social class in England than his superiors at PPL. He likes it here because no one asks where he went to school.

In this respect, Pryce and Don share similarities. In America, work gives them both the chance to succeed without needing to build upon the trappings of family connection, school, social status, etc. that someone like Roger can and does do. Maybe Pryce likes the fact that in America, work not only is what you do, it is who you are.

They also both have unhappy wives. Mrs. Pryce, like Betty, tends to make most things about herself. Does she deserve some pity, though, for having to put up with Pryce's endless devotion to his superiors and all the moving and relocations this causes her?

Thoughts?

As for

Mad Men Word Association

Just for fun......list the characters and type the first word that comes to mind for each one.

Don-dark
Betty-lost
Carla-strong
Roger-pompous
bert-eccentric
Pete-creepy
Peggy-determined
Ken-clueless
Paul-arrogant
Harry-baffoon
Lois-cluts
Lane-proud
Monneypenny-toad
Joan-dignity
Greg-cagey

ADT Recap 10

Pull your kerchief from your can and take your seizure meds. Curtain's up. Link in the comments.

Little Things to Love in Episode 10

Sorry I am late this week. Here, in no particular order, are the things I loved in this week's episode:

1. Sally's question about why the Drapers don't go to Church more often, and Betty's reply "We don't need to go every week" while Carla, who does go every week, is standing right there.

2. Bobby Draper, foreshadowing Jan Brady middle child syndrome

3. Mummy Draper, as she was riding with Jane and Roger to the Waldorf. "Does Monda know?"

4. Paul Kiney Theatre, and most especially, the guy with the purple kerchief who failed to spray his 'do with Aquanet first.

5. Roger and Bert looking at the photo from 1923 and Roger's wry remark that "they're all dead....except you and Doug Thompson." And Doug Thompson's passing off laxatives as candy to poor Roger.

6. Don and Betty, so preoccupied with which of their lovers may have called that neither failed to correct Sally on her bad grammar when she announced the hang up call ("They hanged up.").

7. Sally's muttering "Geez Louise" to Betty when Betty complained that Sally was taking things too personally.

8. When Don opened the door to Suzanne Farrell's apartment the first time. In the background, you could hear the radio playing "Dominique" by the Siniging Nun, which debuted in 1963.

9. The return of old favorites: Betty's washing machine and Lois Sadler.

10. Bert Cooper watching a soap opera when Lane Pryce entered Bert's office.

And a bonus, because I did not get to 10 in last week's list:

11. Don and Peggy both saying, at separate times, "I hate when that happens" when Paul explains that he forgot to write his idea down and it disappeared.

Mad Men - ZZZZZZZZ

A dismal season!

ADDICTION TO MADMEN

I watched one episode and now I am hooked. This show is incredible....I can't believe it has taken me three seasons to find out about it. I watched season one DVD's last night, and got off work to get season two. It is totally addictive and so cool to remember all those things from the 60's when I was just a kid.

Ossining

What was the reason for setting Drapers' home in Ossining? Even in 1960, a top gun at a big Madison Avenue agency would most likely have lived in Greenwich, Montclair, Bedford, the East Side, Chappequa, Darien, Rye, Far Hills, the North Shore or somewhere like that. Particularly if his wife had been a status-conscious Bryn Mawr girl who grew up on the Main Line.

The color blue a red herring to viewers? Red herring as in something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

I'm not so sure the color blue is that significant, the color or the fact that it is blue. My take is it was a clever method for the discussion between an elementary school teacher and Don so that he can say his line to convey his little philosophical moment. Also, it created a sense of intimacy between them. Having Don use a child's question softens him in her eyes, endears him to her because he responds to the teacher as if a six year old's concern is important to him because it is to her.
Then at home Don just as smoothly when Bobby, his own son, asks why doesn't he ask how he's doing, he responds shortly, "I do. (but doesn't) and explains that Sally's answer is quicker....Go figure; Mr. Softie not so much with his child.
I would love to read discussion about this and other's take on the color blue.

How Matthew Weiner Chose Sterling and Holloway

This is probably a coincidence, but I just realized that the man who was the voice of the Cheshire Cat in the original 1951 Alice in Wonderland was named Sterling Holloway. How strange is that?!

Is Don a Good Lover?

Does he give as good as he gets? We know that Don is a womanizer. But the show never makes it clear whether he satisfies the women he sleeps with, especially Betty. This is also important to her character as well as reflective of female sexuality at the time and the male attitude towards it. I wonder whether the writers have thought about this aspect of Don's character.

How different was it for women in the 1960s? Great article, especially for young women.

http://www.wowowow.com/entertainment/gail-collins-lesley-stahl-interview-feminism-sarah-palin-gloria-steinem397308

Have a question for Matt Weiner?

Reporter is looking for questions to ask tomorrow. See article:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/popcandy/post/2009/10/hey-mad-men-fans-got-a-question-for-matthew-weiner/1

49 Most Influential Men

http://www.askmen.com/specials/2009_top_49/don-draper-1.html - Sorry if this a double post

ATTN: Lily

Please do a thorough review of the threads on this site and the comments therein. There are very clear violations of AMC's comment policy. "Comments should be polite and relevant to the topic at hand. Please use appropriate language. AMC reserves the right to remove comments or suspend members who do not follow these guidelines." Just my own opinion, but a suspension seems clearly called for, if not an outright banning for life.

Thank you in advance, Lily, for anything you can do to improve the quality of this formerly very enjoyable Forum.

1604 East Stanton Place, Long Beach

That's the address on the deed for Don and Anna. Stanton Place runs north andsouth, but there IS a 1604 and it's not far from me. I want to drive over there and see. Wonder why it's Long Beach and not San Pedro?

Mad Men as Social Commentary

What I find most interesting about Mad Men is its commentary on society, business, family, relationships, race, gender. etc. in the early 1960s but seen through the lens of today. The show allows us to see how strange and absurd some things were then, but by doing so gives us a chance to think about the strangeness and absurdity of our present time. What I find less interesting about the show is, quite honestly, the sex. Don's philandering is so predictable and pedantic. We seen the unfaithful husband on so many different tv shows. There's not much new to say here. What I find much more interesting is when the show explores interactions in the office, dirty business deals, family life, children growing up, death, race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Mad Men the Movie

I am wondering if there will be any such thing

Mad Lois returns!

YAY - loved her face when kinsey told her to shut up!

Mad Men Video Contest

My good friend Dave Del Greco is a top 20 finalist in the Mad Men Video Contest. Clearly I'm a little biased being his friend, but I can honestly say that his video is one of the top 3 best among the finalists. His production value is nearly unmatched, and he manages to create an authentic Mad Men mood (not easy to do in less than 1 min). His acting's not too bad either, if I do say so.

He's currently a little low on votes and can use your help to make it to the top 10. If he does, Matthew Weiner will view his entry, and I think he'd stand a pretty good chance of winning the whole thing. If you're a real Mad Men fan, take a look at his video (linked below) and, unless you honestly believe it's subpar, show some support with a vote

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men-contest-2009/2009/10/ycbmm-09-dave-del-greco-don-finalist.php

Tom and Lorenzo review Ep 10

http://projectrungay.blogspot.com/2009/10/mad-men-s3e9-color-blue.html

Mad Man prop guy interview

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/an-interview-with-scott-buckwald-prop-master-for-the-hit-tv-show-mad-men/

Who is tops in the Power Rankings this week?

http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/mad-men-power-rankings-week-10-enjoy-the-world-as-it-is-margaret-theyll-change-it-and-never-give-you.php

Don's Suit For Sale

In Case You Haven't Seen It Yet

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/blogs/the-thread/Mad-Men-Suit-Unveiled-64360312.html

Who is going to end up pregnant?

At the conclusion of seasons 1 and 2 there was a surprise pregnancy. Peggy then Betty....will there be another at the end of this season?

Don Draper and JFK

Interesting post on the NY Times blog:

If you've seen the footage of JFK's final speech at a banquet reception in TX just before he takes the plane to Dallas on that Nov '63 morning you will notice that the final scene in this episode is set up in exactly the same way with Roger as MC announcing him and complimenting his beautiful wife - Betty and Don sit exactly where JFK and Jackie sat relative to the podium and the reception is eerliy similar. I wonder if this was a deliberate forshadowing of near future events.

On the Move Youth Movement

This is the third time Don has given a ride to one of the budding "youths" who will likely be part of the youth movement. The Hitchhikers were the first, jogging Miss Ferrell was next, and now her brother. They're all restless and unfocused, rebellious, of course. And in need of a ride to the next point on their journey.

There's one other thing they all have in common, and it actually concerns me. We don't really like them. It's not that we have to, but I wonder if Matt W. can or will present anyone in the youth movement as interesting and complex and sometimes sympathetic as so many characters on this show are and have been (I think we all agree that Miss Ferrell isn't living up wonderful characters like Midge and Rachael and Anna).

As Don has been our P.O.V., it might well be that we're suppose to feel as distant from the budding youth movement as he does. He is a man who always wanted to be part of a club, and now is--the establishment. As we saw when he was with Midge, he takes a certain pride in this and doesn't want to give it up, but it means that he's disconnected himself from a part of himself forever--however much he keeps entering into affairs as a way of protesting otherwise. He has made himself, sadly and ironically, a stranger to those who would seem to be a lot like him: creative, freedom-loving, free-love-making, rebellious.

Certainly, it's apt that Don finds himself in the role of "dad" or taxi driver of this upcoming generation--ironic, too, for the man who connected most closely to Hobos. He can give them a ride to the next point in their journey, he can converse with them for about that long, but then they have to go their separate ways. He wanted to be in the driver's seat and he is. And that's where he's going to stay, like it or not.

This board is overrun by trolls.

How hard is it for people to recognize them? They're so obvious, yet you keep responding to them.

Monty = Monte, Montgomery, MontyII
Bertha
Annushka
Christopher

Nordic Downside

Would Don's affair with Miss Farrell have even started if Betty had boinked Don the day after they returned from Italy? Personally, I think not. He was looking for warmth and affection, hadn't done one thing wrong when she went all "Nordic" on him. Even Miss Farrell, even if she wasn't in the mood, didn't mind being affectionate.

Paul's Big Idea

Anyone have any guesses as to what Paul's idea was?

Lois

I know she is a minor character in the grand scheme of all things Mad Men, but Lois is a favorite of mine, and wasn't I glad to see her last night! Apparently she is still secretary to Paul, and jeez, Louise, let us hope she is not privy to ALL his little routines around the office. Did it appear to anyone else that Lois seemed just a tad not quite with it? Of course, shredding a man's foot with a riding lawn mower would be quite sufficient to rattle anyone, and it appeared to me that Lois has not fully recovered from that experience. I am so glad she did not get fired, but I bet she stays in the background when St. John Powell and his creepy henchman come by the office during the 40th anniversary celebration.

Episode 10 in Pictures

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2009-10-19/mad-men-recap-don-drops-his-drawers-both-furniture-and-pants-wise/#more-45409

And a few more articles...

http://blogs.chron.com/tubular/archives/2009/10/don_draper_cant.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-bradley/imad-meni-the-color-blue_b_326413.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33383845/ns/entertainment-television/

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/10/19/mad-men-is-miss-farrell-crazy/

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/popcornprejudiceamovieblog/2010094365_monday_morning_mad_men_betty_k.html

The Same Music Playing During Last Night's Episode as when Betty First Meets Henry?

Anyone notice how they played the same music at the end of last night's episode (as Betty is watching Don accept his award) as they did when Henry first met Betty and asked her if he could feel her pregnant belly? I wonder what it means, any thoughts?

Greek Heroes and Roman Generals

Afflicted soldiers who hide a secret weakness for fear they won't be allowed to fight? Like Don? We seem to have both our Greek Myth and Fall of the Roman Empire coming together in this episode. How many Achilles' heels did you see mentioned in this episode (i.e. people private/secret weaknesses)? And should we be thinking about Trojan horses and assassins in the Senate? (Et tu Brute?)

"People May See Things Differently....

...But they don't really want to," says Don Draper about the philosophical question, do we all see blue as blue? Wow. Talk about summing up Don, most characters on the show, and what advertising is all about.

Yet this episode is all about seeing things differently whether we want to...or not. Thoughts?

Sweet Sally

When Sally answered the phone, and no one responded, I was pretty sure it was her former teacher calling for Don. Then I remembered the little boy Sally kissed in the bathtub....maybe he now has a crush on her and was too shy to speak when she answered. I was so hoping to hear her say "Thith ith Thally Draper. Who ith calling, pleath?" I love that little Sally Draper....in the words of Lou Grant, she's got spunk. Jeez Louise, do you think some day she will be looking after Bobby and Gene like the teacher takes care of her brother?

Don is starting to bore me.

Does anyone else out there think that Don's character's becoming a bit predictable? Studly at work, studly with the ladies, and chronically unfaithful. I used to think his character was interesting and charismatic, but not so much anymore. I still love the show, but there are other characters I prefer.

Jeez Louise

I think Sally is smart and tricky. She knows her mother is TIGHLY wound. She might just push her over the egde. By the way whose lunch was in the brown bag - was it Sal's.

I Can't Stand Miss Farrell!

Who is this woman? Why did they put her on? She is "Nothing to Write Home About!"

A Study In Contrasts - The Color Blue

Just when you think you know where a storyline is headed Weiner shifts your attention or reveals a side of a character that was unexpected. Another aspect of the writing for this show is the parallels between characters. The tension in the room when Sally answers the silent phone (I think it was Hilton) and the contrasting parallels it brings to light. The feeling that all of the characters are in some way trapped and unhappy and how that sensation is dealt with seems to be a central focus of many storylines. The Birtish wife trapped in NYC. Fashion model Betty trapped in the domestic life. Sal trapped by the lies about his sexuality. Peggy trapped by her gender in light of her ambitions. The teacher sad for her brother's illness ( and yet unexpectedly completely OK with being the other woman). And ultimately Don seemingly the most trapped and yet the most free. So in this episode we see various shades of "blue" and how these shades change in the light. And like all colors they can be painted over, especially when your successful husband gives a speech to a roomful of admiring peers.

Who will buy Sterling Cooper now?

Your Post

Posting to Open Thread

A number of you have noticed that it appears as if the open threads are controlled by a handful of people who feel as if they own the board. I've noticed people getting scolded becuz they used all caps, didn't use the correct punctuation, so forth and so on. I was jumped on by one user because i mentioned you can buy a pen like Joans from Marshall House inc.com. It's so terrible that most of the posts by these few are more like a chat room rather than discussing the show. Just remember Madmen is just a television show, it's NOT REAL, the characters are not real, they only play the role of the characters on TV.. So get a grip, and you all know who I am referring to. REally its ok IF SOMEONE USES ALL CAPS OR doesnt use the correct punctuation, life goes on. Lets get back to discussing the show and our views and guessing what's going to happen next. If a person missed something in an episode or was trying to catch up on missed episodes, people use to write in to catch you up to speed on the happenings. Now if you do so, you barely get a response and sometimes the response is one of "how dare you". LIghten up people, get a grip on reality. WAke up again it's only tv. I've found other madmen sights to be better engaging, and the discussions were on a different level, just better overall. It's pathetic that a handful of users find themselves bullying a message board. We are all s act like it.

Everybody's talking about Episode 10

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/mad-men-watch-ballads-of-dissatisfaction/

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313617,00.html

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2009/10/mad-men-.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/tgoodman/detail?&entry_id=49838

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/10/19/mad-men-episode-10-tv-recap/

http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/see-it-all-works-out-mad-men-recapped.php

http://www.buzzsugar.com/5723231

http://blogs.tampabay.com/media/2009/10/mad-men-recap-this-week-insincerity-rules.html

http://www.nbcmiami.com/entertainment/television/Mad_Men__Betty_Whitman_-64727522.html

http://www.masslive.com/television/index.ssf/2009/10/mad_men_episode_ten_the_color.html

http://www.bscreview.com/2009/10/mad-men-the-color-blue-season-3-episode-10-review/

http://blogs.courant.com/roger_catlin_tv_eye/2009/10/facades-unravel-on-mad-men.html

http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-color-blue,34263/

http://www.tvguide.com/Episode-Recaps/Mad-Men/Mad-Men-Episode-1010990.aspx

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/2009-1-13-monkeys-as-critics/posts/recap-mad-men-the-color-blue

http://www.tvsquad.com/2009/10/18/review-mad-men-the-color-blue/

How Realisitc is a Steam Logo Pulling Commuter Cars in 1963?

Are there any New York Central historians out there who can comment on how realistic it is to have a steam loco pulling commuter cars from Ossining to Briarcliff Manor in 1963? I'm a Pennsy fan, and am pretty sure steam had been LONG gone from the eastern main lines by the start of the 60's. Anyone?

Cast & Characters PAge

I wish AMC would update the cast & characters page for season 3. Sometimes it's hard to find the name of a secondary character and IMDB isn't much help, either.

How Realistic is Steam Pulling Commuter Coaches in 1963?

Are there any New York Central historians out there who can tell us how realistic it is to have a steam loco pulling commuter coaches from Ossining to Briarcliff Manor (sp?) in 1963? I'm a Pennsy fan myself, and am pretty sure that steam was LONG gone from the main line by the 1963... anyone?

Don Really Has Nothing To Hide

If at some time in the future Don had to tell Betty of his past it's really very trivial. People here are making a mountain out of a molehill.All he would have to do is tell Betty the truth. He had a bad childhood, joined the army, and through a fortuitous event had his identity switched and thought it was a good way to escape his past.He was not married before and he is not a criminal. His name is really Dick instead of Don and he's younger than he said. It's really no big thing.Compare that to the film History of Violence where Vigo Mortensen really was a killer and gangster in his former identity.Even here at the end of the film he comes back and perhaps his wife just accepts him as the man she knew and not the killer.

Betty is angry.

If you saw the endong of this most recent episode you could tell Betty was angry as she looked at Don being honored. She was not upset his receivng an awrd, but she probably knows that he is still up to his adulterous ways.

Usually when she gets this angry something dramatic happens. Don had better be ready!

Sneak Peek 3.11 "The Gypsy And The Hobo"

I like how the widow that Roger is flirting with looks like Jane, only at a more appropriate age.
I think the ad campaign should go:
HORSE
The Other Red Meat

I LOVED THIS EPISODE!

I was so happy when Betty found that key. I really wanted her to confront Don. He's such a jerk.

First Articles on Ep 10

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/10/mad_men_the_color_blue_reviewi.html

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/10/mad-men-color-blue.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2225274/entry/2232839/

The Faintest Ink and The Strongest Television

a profoundly media savvy episode ... review of 3.10

Season 3 Episode 9 - Open Thread

Talk about Season 3, Episode 9, "Wee Small Hours."

Here is a Moon Ad Conrad Hilton should like.

Moon Ad.pdf

Mad Men Commercials

I record Mad Men, so I fast forward through the commercials. I'm thinking AMC should create 1960's commercials for the modern companies that advertise during the show. That would get me to actually watch the commercials.

'Mad Men' and the Thrill of Other People's Misery in Sour Times

New York Times editorial observer article:
To a generation beaten down by unemployment, plunging savings and foreclosures, "Mad Men" is a reminder that the bleakness meter in American life has always been set on high.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/17/opinion/17sat4.html

Just speculating or do they know something?

This is this week's episode blubrb from Cincinnati.com:

Mad Men, 10 p.m., AMC. Last week, Don Draper began an affair with his kids' sweet-spirited teacher. Even that isn't his biggest secret. What if his wife learned that he isn't really Don Draper, that he swapped identities with a dead soldier? This is a strong hour, stuffed with secrets.

===========================

Maybe Betty finally gets that drawer unlocked? Or somebody blabs at the party? What, if anything, does the blurb writer know?

The Hilton Account - Worth the Moon?

It seems that Don is going above and beyond for the eccentric Conrad Hilton. Sure its a big account but how far is Don willing to go to. So far he has been forced into a contractual agreement, answers the telephone at hours and at a frequency that certainly goes beyond professional courtesy and crosses personal boundaries, suffers a bizarre belittlement in front of his subordinates " When I ask for teh moon give me the moon", and is drawn into these weird "tests" of character-values-dedication. Don's seems the type of man to not play this game at all let a lone for as long as he has . Will he be drawing the line any time soon with Connie ? And why hasn't he as of yet? Or is this all a test by Connie to see where Don's breaking point is?

Jon Hamm interview in Readers Digest

http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/qa-mad-men-actor-jon-hamm/article163539.html

Problems with Season 3

I know we're all fans, but I'm sure we all have issues with some aspects of this season. I'm obviously not a troll, I just wanted to start a thread to get a discussion going. Nothing wrong in being a little critical. I'll start first: I think this season is over-saturated with Betty. Matt Weiner has decided to make her and the Draper family the primary focii of this season and I think this is a problem for several reasons. One, Betty's character and the problems she's confronting are largely the same as last season - we've seen little growth (she's now just saddled with a baby) and we've received few new insights into her character ("Souvenir" being the exception). Two, with respect to Sally, as good at that actress is they're limited in how much they can do with her (she's not going to keep up with all the time jumps they do). And finally, three: time with Betty and Sally has taken away from the office and other characters who, from the beginning of this show, have been important as well as from new characters (Pryce, Moneypenney). Somebody on this show likened the set up to a steak (Don Draper) with different sides (other characters) who rotate in and out so as to keep us audience members on our toes. Well, IMO the side this season is getting stale and the rotation has been limited.

Thoughts? Disagree or agree with me? And what particular beefs do you have with the season?

I feel sorrry for Sal

I hope Sal mangaes to survive. What happened to him was terrible.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASIER TO DO IT THIS WAY

They have an open thread for each character with 782 comments or more. I just thought I would cut and paste their names and type what I think of them. I won't read through all those comments.

Don Draper - Hate him
Betty Draper - Cold and needs to get out of her marriage
Pete Campbell - Hate him and love to watch Roger slap him around
Peggy Olson - Wish she would go away and they would bring Joan back
Joan Holloway - Love Joan!
Roger Sterling - Love Roger! He's a good match for Joan.
Salvatore Romano - Wish his character was straight and he and Kitty were happy. I like Kitty a lot.
Ken Cosgrove - Adorable. The golden boy of the office. He should replace Don.
Paul Kinsey - Hate him because he's such a pompous ass
Bert Cooper - Love the old coot. He's brilliant and I hope they don't kill him off any time soon.
Duck Phillips - Hate him and I hope he comes back in his next life as a litter box.

ADT...Finally!!!

http://www.unboundedition.com/pdp_thinking/2009/oct/15/attention-deficit-theatre-mad-men-season-three-epi/

Ossining / Sing Sing

In Season Three we are beginning to have more of a sense of the geography and culture of the Draper's surburban community. Ossining, originally called Sing Sing, seems to have many facets which are now being highlighted in the narrative. One reference to the community was in the introduction of the character of the guard in the waiting room prior to the birth of the newest Draper. How will the community play a role in future episodes?

Look like Don Draper!

A well known, traditional men's clothing business has made a limited (250) batch of the exact gray sharkskin suit that Don Draper wears - at $1,000 a pop.

You too can look like Don Draper! Well, sort of...

Brooks Brothers has made a small (250) batch of gray sharkskin suits at 1000 a pop. Hit the jump: http://www.uncrate.com/men/style/suits-blazers/brooks-brothers-mad-men-edition-suit/

Where oh where have our characters gone...oh where oh where could they be?

We have so many unanswered questions and only three more episodes left. How are we going to get answers to these and to see these characters again in such a short time? Any thoughts or predictions as to where and what these characters are doing.....

Joan and Dr. D@*K
Jane
Duck and Peggy
Betty's brother and grandpa Gene's house
Sal and Kitty
Pryce and PPL
Ken
Lois

HARRY CRANE: " I'm not gonna panic and do something stupid like I usually do."

Unfortunate joke here. Harry's failure to do something was the stupid thing this time.

Season 3/Episode 10 Opening Scene Predictions

Woops, now it's right. Computer glitches!

Season 3/Episode 9 Opening Scene Predictions

Your Post

Roger's daughter upcoming wedding

Hello, I'm new to the postings, so bear with me please. Simply had to comment on the scene where Roger talks with his daughter and ex-wife r garding her wedding and she hands him an invitation. I noticed the date on her invitations, November 23, 1963 - this is the same day that I was married, and it happens to be the day after the JFK assasination! Betcha that will become an important plot in an upcomming episode!!

How Mad Men shows the need for future laws of protection

Notice Sal, who did nothing wrong--and actually is the ethical one in the situation--gets fired when the account fails but Don's account is lost directly because of poor performance and he doesn't get fired????....And the nerve of Don to question Sal as he did! Remember California, Don? Baltimore and the stewardess? The Menken account and Rachael? Utz account and Bobbie? Did I miss any?

Pure examples of why laws were created to protect against sexual harassment, wrongful firing, civil rights, equality and discrimination in the work place.
Not to mention---the women's movement....

Don's Waterloo

I think Don has met his match with the teacher. I sense she is fatal attraction material. All of the defensive character attacks in her "Prelude to a Kiss" that she new would be inevitable. There is the implication of some deep rooted emotional baggage there. This isn't a casual adult thing like Don had with strangers far away cities or Jimmy's wife who knew the score. This is in his backyard with a woman who is obviously not about to be cast aside. Don is vulnarable. He is succumbing to compromise left and right. Look at the way he allows Connie to overstep professional bounds. He responds to him like a child to a father desperately seeking approval. Its disconcerting to witness and it won't be long before it compromises the respect of the young ambitious elements of SC. Betts is longing for glamour and excitement and the charm bracelet trinket Don gave her demonstrated volumes. But this young teacher, Don is weak and in over his head.

OH MY GOD! LOOK AT BETTY!

http://www.dlisted.com/node/34341

The Return of Joan

Since next week's episode deals with a party Roger is planning to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Sterling Cooper, it seems likely to me that he might perhaps contact former valued employees and invite them to the party. Who would he value more than our own dear Joan? I want Joan back at Sterling Cooper, and I want her free of the rat doctor. What do you think Maddicts? Could this be an opportunity for Joan to find herself back in the employ of Sterling Cooper? I personally think they should be begging her to come back, but then I have always been a fan of Stupefyin' Joan. She puts every other woman in the shade, including Betty.

Halloween

Just for fun, (my list is meant to be silly-- a lot of these aren't historically accurate) what could our favorite MM characters dress up as for Halloween?

Don = Two-Face from Batman
Betty = Princess Grace
Peggy = naughty Catholic schoolgirl uniform or a ballet dancer with a baseball bat ("home run ballerina")
Pete = Don, because he so wants to be him
Trudy = 1920's flapper. Charleston!
Gudrun = Mary Poppins. She can hit Pete with her giant umbrella if he comes near her again.
Sal = Ann-Margret
Roger = a knight. He got 3 sheets to the wind and tried it on.
Bert = samurai or ninja
Pryce = belly dancer/snake charmer
Lois = Lizzie Borden
Joan = Jessica Rabbit (the resemblance is uncanny)
Dr. Rapist = Butterfinger candy bar
Sally = Laila Ali
Bobby = a ghost (he's so quiet)
baby Gene = a pig in a blanket
Grandpa Gene = Julius Caesar
Connie = he can't decide whether he wants to be a cowboy or an astronaut
Miss Farrell = something involving a straitjacket

GQ Interviews January Jones

http://www.gq.com/women/photos/200911/january_jones_mad_men_cover_story?currentPage=1

This was my real reactions to 'Wee Small Hours'

Sal? Oh my god! Kick Lucky Strike in the balls!
Connie? Wha???? You want what?
Betty! Ok, in your own house?
Don, look out! She's a bunny boiler! Get yer mind off her arse and her bouncing boobs! Shouldn't you be sleeping?
Aw, suck it up, Pete, and learn to smoke!
Wha? Don, are you saying-but-not-verbalizing that Sal should've "served" the client, Mr. Lucky Strike? Scandalous!
Wait....is that Sal calling Kitty from a pay phone with the "I'm working late" excuse, while he has gay rent boys waiting? (did you guys catch that? Sal's got some catching up to do, I suppose)
Roger! Looks like Don just served you a cold plate of 'I'm not buying your crap' while you weakly told him he was "0n notice" *snicker*
Betty, no! I can't believe you're coming off like a jilted lover to Henry!
Don...not the teacher! Are you really showing up at HER house.....I fear for you, dude.
Oh Conrad. Not even money can buy you the moon. Stop harassing Don for it.
Aw, c'mon, lucky strike creep. Stop acting like a jilted lover when you saw Sal at the meeting. So unbecoming of a man in the closet :-)

Is this "Miss Farrell" in this Twix ad?

Looks like her, don't you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQJ2SegGWyc

Give him the moon

What ad campaign could Don have given Hilton ? How about "What does Apollo need on the moon? ---Hilton

Pants-down moments in season 3

This season, several of our beloved characters have been caught with their pants down (figuratively, for the most part). Below is a list of pants-down moments. What others have you noticed? What do you think is the significance of this trend thematically?

- Don seeing Sal with the bellboy
- Carla noticing the guilty look on Betty's face after Henry's visit
- Pete's neighbor confronting him about the incident with the nanny
- Bert using Don's not-so-secret identity as leverage to get Don to sign the contract
- Conrad calling Don out for not meeting his expectations about Hilton on the moon
- Pete discovering Joan's post-SC employment, and Joan questioning whether the stained dress belonged to Trudy

One night in New York City... need some Mad Men advice

I'll be in NYC on Thursday around dinner time to attend a conference on Friday. I've never been to NYC and all I have is from about 6pm 'til dawn to see what I can. Does anyone have any advice on thMad Men related places that I shouldn't miss? I'll be staying near Times Square.

Little Things to Love in Episode 9

Here, in no particular order, is a list of things I loved in this week's episode. Note: this week's list is a little short because I found less to love in this episode.

1. Lunchboxes and pencil cases. Both very big deals for the start of the new school year.

2. Don, Peggy, Kurt and Smitty in the scene where they are reviewing the ad for the Athens Hilton. Snappy dialogue plus was that view from the supposed window of the Athens Hilton not the worst ad ever? The window cut the Acropolis in half!

3. Carla. Her scenes were very powerful, even though she had comparatively few lines. I loved how Betty was watching her in the scene where Carla put the kids' dinners in front of them. Betty was looking awfully guilty while Carla went about her business.

4. Don Draper in profile as he drove along, right before he picked up Miss Farrell. And then again when he met Connie late at night for a drink. How could anyone look so handsome and put together at such odd hours?

5. Betty, acting like a pouty teenager when Elsa Kittridge breaks the bad news that Henry is not coming, and Elsa gently but firmly putting Madame Draper in her place. Plus I loved Elsa's corsage.

6. Harry, resolving not to panic in the face of Lee Garner, Jr.'s direction to fire Sal and keep it between them.

7. Pete's unusually long hacking cough.

Betty wants a courtly lover

Betty cut things short with Henry because she would have to climb down from the pedestal to consummate the relationship. That would mean sacrificing what little power she has. Henry said it himself: when you don't have the power, delay.

We've seen time and again that Betty loves to be admired. Others have noted the resemblance between renaissance paintings and scenes of Betty on the fainting couch. A painting can be admired, but not held and caressed.

Years ago, Don probably admired Betty the way Henry does now--the way he role-played in Rome. But Betty made a real life with Don, and things didn't turn out as she'd fantasized. She's scared to have that happen with Henry.

I'm not saying that Henry and Don are alike, or that Betty will never let down her guard physically with Henry. I just think that Betty gets a lot of satisfaction--and a sense of power--out being a queen with a courtly lover.

Vincent Kartheiser interview

Pete Campbell talks about everything Mad men, from working with Jon Hamm n the crew to the absurdity of morality and the death of the American Dream - good stuff!

http://lostinasupermarket.com/2009/10/mad-mens-vincent-kartheiser-interview/

this one's a bit more personal about Vincent, but still really insightful:

http://lostinasupermarket.com/2009/10/mad-men%E2%80%99s-vincent-kartheiser-interview-pt-ii/

Site problems!!? :/

This site has some major issues. My guess is that the infrastructure is overwhelmed by the massive response to Mad Men. Quick, easy, page navigation is next to impossible. Sometimes , I get a screen whiteout from just trying to do a page scroll! Is anyone else having these problems?

podcast review of Mad Men 3.9

with more on the Harry Crane, Perry Mason, Isaac Asimov resemblance... 6-minute review

Another sneak peek at Episode 10

Betty being nice to Don? Don not sleeping at home?

http://www.fancast.com/tv/Mad-Men/95854/1292799239/Sneak-Peek/videos

Open Thread Ep 3.09 Wee Small Hours (The one you might actually be able to access!)

Just thought since there is no way for so many to get on the Open Thread for Wee Small Hours... might just as welll start a new one.

A bunch more articles for you to read

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/mad-men-watch-all-they-want-is-the-moon/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2009/10/mad-men.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6663142.html?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:51f949f0-ffd1-4060-b131-c1f6068eb4eb

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33278864/ns/entertainment-television/

http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2009/10/12/mad-men-season-3-episode-9/

http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2009/10/12/mad-men-watch-promise-me-the-moon/

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/popcornprejudiceamovieblog/2010049502_madness_--_and_bad_behavior_--.html

http://watching-tv.ew.com/2009/10/12/mad-men-sal-fired-teacher/

This show is becoming a soap opera

More on Joan, Sal, Peggy - those story lines are interesting. But 1 more affair from Don? I get it, he runs whenever he's threatened, upset, blah, blahh. not asking to change his character, but does it have to be the main story line every week? Betty'srelationship with Henry is more interesting because it's a NEW STORY LINE.

This show is becoming a soap opera

More on Joan, Sal, Peggy - those story lines are interesting. But 1 more affair from Don? I get it, he runs whenever he's threatened, upset, blah, blahh. not asking to change his character, but does it have to be the main story line every week? Betty'srelationship with Henry is more interesting because it's a NEW STORY LINE.

I Married A Mad Man

Matty Weiner acknowledged that Dan Draper was partly inspired by the real Draper Daniels, the creative head of Leo Burnett in Chicago, in the 1950's. This was written by his wife.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2009/I-Married-a-Mad-Man/

Christine Hendricks Got Married

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20311577,00.html

When Harry Should've Met with Sal(ly)

I know that having a backbone isn't one of Harry's traits, but really, if ever there was a time for him to stand up it was this past episode. Much of the situation they all found themselves in could've been avoided if Harry told Sal about the phone call request from Mr. Lucky Strike. Harry still would've been keeping his word in not telling Pete or Roger, and although Harry didn't have the authority to fire Sal, I think he owed it to his friend and co-worker to let him know the client has a problem with him. Of course Sal would know the real reason for Lucky Strike wanting him gone, and he could've removed himself from campaign, citing a whole slew of excuses -- keep in mind that Lucky Strike didn't ask for Sal to be fired from S-C, just "gone."

Instead, Harry does nothing and causes such a disaster that I'm surprised he wasn't fired as well.

I wonder of this could be a turning point in Harry's character. His inaction caused a friend and co-worker to be bluntly fired, as well as put a $25M account in jeopardy. SURELY this guilt must rest extremely heavily on his shoulders for many more episodes.

Reviews for "Wee Small Hours"

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/10/mad_men_wee_small_hours_review.html

http://www.tvguide.com/Episode-Recaps/Mad-Men/Mad-Men-Episode-1010738.aspx

http://www.buzzsugar.com/5578455

http://www.avclub.com/articles/wee-small-hours,33951/

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/10/mad-men-wee-small-hours.html

The King Midas Touch

We're back to Greek Myths again. It was Oedipus before, now we're on King Midas, whose most famous story is the one where he is granted a wish because he'd been kind. He asked that everything he touched would turn to gold. Getting his wish he soon found this problematic as everything he touched including food, friends and his daughter turned to gold.

Take note that the Lucky Strike account returns in this episode to reinforce the gold theme. MadMen has a lot to say about our pursuit of gold, either our hope for a lucky strike or our wish for that golden touch. Everyone, it seems, wants to live like a king, but once we're in that role, very few of us care about being a good king.

Connie, for example, says he wants to be a good king, a compassionate humanitarian, but his vision of how to do this (putting a Hilton in every country), pales in comparison to the words of another "King" on the radio talking about achieving true equality. It's especially ironic that King Conrad wants to bring democracy to the world when America, at this time, isn't offering that to many of its own citizens.

Conrad's fear that he's become King Midas is well founded. People, including Don, are at his beck and call only because he has the Midas touch, and that touch takes away everyone's humanity, including the King's. He bullies Don, and Don, in turn, bullies others. The moral of the Midas story, we're reminded, isn't just "be careful what you wish for!" It's also about being careful that one's pursuit of gold doesn't make you lose your humanity. Real wealth in life is to be found in the human touch, not the golden touch.

The King Midas

We're back to Greek Myths again. It was Oedipus before, now we're on King Midas, whose most famous story is the one where he is granted a wish because he'd been kind. He asked that everything he touched would turn to gold. Getting his wish he soon found this problematic as everything he touched including food, friends and his daughter turned to gold.

Take note that the Lucky Strike account returns in this episode to reinforce the gold theme. MadMen has a lot to say about our pursuit of gold, either our hope for a lucky strike or our wish for that golden touch. Everyone, it seems, wants to live like a king, but once we're in that role, very few of us care about being a good king.

Connie, for example, says he wants to be a good king, a compassionate humanitarian, but his vision of how to do this (putting a Hilton in every country), pales in comparison to the words of another "King" on the radio talking about achieving true equality. It's especially ironic that King Conrad wants to bring democracy to the world when America, at this time, isn't offering that to many of its own citizens.

Conrad's fear that he's become King Midas is well founded. People, including Don, are at his beck and call only because he has the Midas touch, and that touch takes away everyone's humanity, including the King's. He bullies Don, and Don, in turn, bullies others. The moral of the Midas story, we're reminded, isn't just "be careful what you wish for!" It's also about being careful that one's pursuit of gold doesn't make you lose your humanity. Real wealth in life is to be found in the human touch, not the golden touch.

Pete smoking Luckies

How about how Pete was having lung lock trying to smoke when the Lucky Strike guy was there?