I get the sense that Peggy sleeping with Duck caused a disagreement within the actual writing department of Mad Men and to help justify the lapse in judgment, They had Don tear into Peggy that same day to put her out of sorts. I agree with all the women on the forums, the two of them hooking up just dose not feel right.

One word: Eeeewwwww!!!

("I want to take your clothes off with my teeth...")

Double eewww!!

Of course that great thing about this episode, is that you can blame everything on the eclipse.

What is going on here? Peggy is very smart. What makes you all think that she overall didn't know what she was doing? Duck as a man isn't so repulsive as far as men go. He's offered her more money and power than she's ever had before. So what if he's older. She's not stupid. What's so wrong with her likeing him. After all he presented himself as a guy who would bite her buttons off and lick her whole entire body. Also he truly love's her idea's. She know's Don isn't available to her.
She has her sexual needs. She's an independent woman. I think its rather interesting that many things havent changed these days.
Women are still considered sluts should they sleep and have sex with available men.
Did I miss something here? Isn't Duck divorced from his past wife? Also he's no longer drinking.
What exactly makes him a EWWWW guy?

Well, we've been conditioned to dislike Duck because he's Don's enemy. But he's handsome and well-mannered when sober, and I felt sorry for him in the scene with his wife and kids, and also afterwards when he attended the dinner party at the Drapers'.

Don't know what Old Duckie's game is yet with Peggers, but I'm liking him better than Dickie right about now.

Also Don may be cute, but Don got the crap beat out of him. Also Don was dancing with a girl who he knew was at best 16 and dancing with her. So what if she told him that she was 18. Plus her fiance was 18 supposedly too. We all know that Don was apparently raised in the south somewhere. A kissen cousin, sibling sort of thing. His original mother died and he was raised with the name of Dick. Which is a cock identied name.
Sure he's trying to rise above it, butt he can't.

I Think one thing that makes Duck so gross to women, is what he did last season when he abandon his dog on the streets of downtown Manhattan. Doing something that is so unnurturing is estrogen repellent.

I don't happen to like dogs that much, so it didn't bother me as much as millions of other viewers. I'm much more disturbed by the neglect of the Draper kids!

Duck is totally fooling her
he made her think there were meetings going on and it was just his hotel room
ewwwwwww for me too run peggy run

Duck is totally fooling her
he made her think there were meetings going on and it was just his hotel room
ewwwwwww for me too

run peggy run

Hi Jolie 10!

I wrote about this under the main episode thread, but, I am still recovering from this!!!!

The teeth comment got me too! All I could think was Duck probably wears dentures, and his dentures would wind up in Peggy's bra!!!

I pray she is using her BC pills...I could not handle a "ducklet"!!!

perhaps duck will try to use peggy - catch her when she is vulnerable and pump her for SC info

I was shocked, but really tittilated by this. I've always liked Duck and I'm glad to see him getting a little action.

I agree with the above poster -- Duck is still an attractive man when sober. He has the real WASP, Ivy League, blueblood credentials that Don lacks.

Maybe they're both just using each other, or maybe they really do like each other. But either way, I'm glad for both of them. Duck is definitely a step up from the burger boy from Brooklyn College.

I wouldn't kick Duck out of bed!

I agree with all the ewww comments - this episode was great, but I could not re-watch that scene. The pick-up lines were so lame (although Duck did his best with the delivery of them) that even though we all knew where that scene was going based on the opening shot of her in bed with someone, I was still shocked. The reasons that I personally think he's not the nicest guy are the following

a) Duck's most despicable side came out in the second episode of last season when, RIGHT after Pete lost his dad in an American Airlines crash, he gets Don to dump Mohawk and then bullies Pete into meeting with the AA execs. In retrospect, it's obvious that he's trying to manipulate Pete away from Don throughout last season. Pete chooses Don's side at the end, but Duck actually doesn't know that.

b) engineered a deal with PP&L behind SC's back and then tried to oust Don out (this was both not nice and stupid, maybe he should have researched the nature of Don's contract in advance?). In fact, much of season 2 was Duck trying to one-up Don due to (IMO) pure jealousy about Don's admittedly better talents (remember Duck's quick attempt at copy for Playtex last year?)

c) he's a sinking, self-destructive ship - and unless Peggy is sharper than I give her credit for, she doesn't realize that. He may be attracted to her but he wants to hurt Don and SC more. This will not be good for her.

d) he abandoned that dog - I know a lot of fans were up in arms about this, but it's hardly the worst thing he's done. But maybe that's because I'm not a big dog person.

While Duck has had some sympathetic moments and I think the character itself is a good one, I personally (speaking as a woman about Peggy's age) would not have been impressed with his attempts to get me to work at Grey's nor with his pick-up lines. I find it difficult to believe that she didn't know where that was all going. I know there's a lot of Peggy love on these boards and generally I like her character too, but this episode showed that she still has a lot of growing up to do.

Duck- I love the taste of liquor on your lips!

I can't speak for everyone, but I do think many of us, if not all, have a secret seedy naughty side. We usually don't act on it and when we do, we obviously regret it. But it's still there and occasionally comes out, sometimes when we are in weak or self-doubting moments.

That's what makes Noir so appealing and sexy---it's like a window into a sexy, seedy, dark side of life. We can act like voyeurs into another person's psyche.

And you don't get much seedier than Duck in that seduction scene...But I imagine he might be pretty good at what he does (when he's sober) and even if you find him EWWWW (which I kind of do, yet...) and never want to see him again, you might somehow find yourself in bed with him against your better judgment. That is the point.

There was some forum discussion a few episodes ago about who Peggy might end up with. Some of us, me included, agreed that Peggy needed an older man. Well, here he is!! And it's Duck! Waaaaaahhhh!!

As Gail Klein said, I was kind of titillated by this as well.

I like Peggy with a powerful man. At 1st, I was shocked, but then it was all right! Pretty steamy. I hope she uses her new-found power to her advantage and doesn't get screwed in more than one way!

Thirteen--Great post. Great line about the Deere! The Duck/Peggy hotel scene caused for me the same reaction: "What? Really? Eeww...I can't watch."

And I am still reeling from the Duck/Peggy tryst. On the open post so many were disgusted by the age difference, but for me the "ick" factor in this union, and I did think it was unappealing, was more about Duck than Peggy. I don't trust him, and his motives for sleeping with her are not clear. I fear that he is using her to get something or to get back at someone, maybe Don. Remember, he asks her "You really are Don's girl, aren't you?".

What would have been our reaction if Peggy had fallen into bed with another older man, such as Roger or even Don?

I think Peggy was so easy for him to seduce because of that awful meeting she had earlier with Don, where he yelled at her for trying to get on the Hilton account. She needed validation, especially from a man. .

It's not that Duck is so awful, it's that Peggy is so naive. Duck isn't bedding Peggy because he wants her, he's doing it to use against SC and Don when he needs it. Peggy has fallen into his trap. And her smugness about it will come back to haunt her, believe me.

Duck is not a "powerful" man. Don ousted him easily. Duck landed on his feet, but he's not tremendously successful. Plus, he's an on-again, off-again boozer.

Women make mistakes, but for Peggy, this was a big one.

I'm with tweeders1 and fifty-two on this one.
How is Don really a more attractive catch than Duck?
Duck released his dog to the wilds of Manhattan--a hugely likely place a lost dog will be adopted within minutes. Don is an absent father who allows his wife to essentially mistreat (dismiss) his own children who are stuck.
Duck is handsome, recognized his drinking problem and stopped, is single, powerful and sees the skill, talent and potential in Peggy (whom Don can't seem to even find time to rally for even a raise for yet uses her talent).
Don is not really as attractive as his aloof and casual character makes him.
I might add also, Peggy, being a straight woman has limited choices here.....What can a woman do?

There wasn't quite an "ew" factor with me, but there was a WTF? factor. Because Duck, at least to me, hardly comes across as a Casanova or Peggy's type (come to that Peggy doesn't seem his type, but maybe he's into young ad ladies in vest sweaters who drink whiskey?).

In hindsight, however, this episode does talk a lot about wanting what you can't have--and how you make yourself more attractive if you play hard-to-get. Peggy made herself attractive to Duck by playing hard-to-get (not too hard), and Duck might well be more attractive to her because she can't have Don--I don't mean that she wants to sleep with Don, but we do know she wants what he has. I think there's a vicarious thing going on with Peggy. Getting some of what she wants by sleeping with one of these top ad men.

I think the gifts, the attention , prospect of more power and plainly, Peggy heard what she wanted to hear...and for some people that is enough. I see an angle for both Duck and Peggy. Time will tell. I am interested to see where this goes. Peggy is no different than the "Big Boys" right now, in this respect she is even surpassing Joan's prowess. (Whom is a classy lady, I love) Peggy is going to one to look out for. I don't think this is shocking at all.

Hey everyone! I haven't commented at all this season because I just don't have the downtime like I used to, but here are my thoughts on this situation:

For all her desire to break the glass ceiling in the ad industry, I think Peggy is starting to crack around the edges. In season 2 her growing confidence is evident and it seems she can do no wrong in the professional realm. As with Pete, the fairy tale wasn't to last as she gets turned down not once, but twice by Don, who up until then she had placed all her trust in as a mentor (and vice versa, with regards to his involvement with Bobbie Barrett). I've noticed that it doesn't take much for her to tear up these days. She can only hold it together for so long in front of these alpha males at SC. Sure, they respect her more, but I do agree with most everyone else who says that she was really seeking approval from Don, whom she perceives has the ideal life. I pictured her, as many of you guys did, turning into a female version of Don, however the word that stands in her way is just that: FEMALE. Don is starting to chafe at being fenced in when that contract is forced upon him, so with his freedom compromised, he gives Peggy the tough love she needs because she assumes that he will always has her back. Bert Cooper turned his back on Don, so they are both feeling let down by their superiors this week, which leads each to rebel in a way that leaves them worse off than before.

I believe Pete catching Peggy as she fainted last week, and his telling her in this episode to send back the Hermes scarf, is a sign of his being protective or supportive. I see something platonic developing between them two that could trump any romance. They may not come from the same backgrounds, but they do share a bond through the child they conceived together, and now the Duck issue is making it stronger. It is obvious that Pete has grown to respect her, if not as an equal, but for making it as far as she did at SC through her intelligence and perseverance.

Peggy has come to a crossroads, however, because she is not an alpha female, as many of Don’s conquests were (Rachel, Bobbie) and this allowed Duck to prey on her vulnerability. She’s not a naturally vicious person; she only wants to better herself and has fantasies of the dream house with a family that many girls have. Until episode 6, I thought she was all about getting to the top. Well, she’s about that and more. She’s only starting to realize now that it’s going to be next to impossible to get to that place on her own. It’s like a rising starlet trying to secure a coveted starring role in a film and having to sleep with the director to get it. Females will always have the disadvantage of being seen as the weaker sex.

Another possible angle with Peggy falling into bed with Duck is that she doesn’t have a father figure in her life and is looking for approval of sorts. She was shunned by Don, but Duck is clearly older and much more believable (especially the skeeviness of it all). I don’t know how old Peggy was when her father died, but that could explain some of her attraction to him. Then again, he could have slipped her something in that whiskey of hers. He knew she would be coming over after all. Then we see her passed out, and her dangling arm makes it seem the result of something more sinister than being up all night screwing. Duck is a nasty fellow...he let Chauncey loose because he was onto him. Peggy is an honest person to a fault, and he sees that and will break her down because of it.

On another note, I do wonder if she’s on birth control at all because during her tumble with the Brooklyn College student, she requested he wear protection. Unless birth control was not known to be as reliable a method as it is today, why would she need a back-up plan if she were already on the pill? I really hope for her sake she took precautions against creating any possible ducklings (which, sadly enough, might inherit their father’s love of the bottle).

Duck....Yuck!

I wonder who is using whom here, exactly?

Duck probably has an ulterior motive to manipulate Peggy. I didn't believe him when all of a sudden he says he's attracted to her. When they worked together, he never made a pass or even looked twice at her. It's a wee bit icky because he has a daughter only a few years younger than her, very similar to the dynamic between Roger/Jane/Margaret, actually.

Peggy is still so naive about life and relationships. Recently she's been acting more like a confused teenager than a young woman in her 20s. She's unsure about her identity, who she wants to be, and she's been trying on new ones lately by experimenting with sex and weed. Typical adolescent behavior.

But maybe, just maybe, she has enough adolescent bravado to think that she can be the manipulator in this scenario? She wants everything that Don has, and one thing Don has a lot of and she doesn't is power...

Look I know its shocking but once you get past the WTF part you kinda realize that its defiantly a step up from Peat!

think about it Duck is single, sweet to her, and in my opinion better looking than peat.

my only concern is that he is very sneaky and manipulative. I hope that this relationship isn't some sort of way for him to use her to get back at Don.

Instead of a whiskey Peggy should have asked for a Grey Duck vodka--oh wait, I guess she did.

Duck! Now that's one I never saw coming....not so much "eeww", but kinda "huh?" Just never would have thunk it...although I have to agree with you Maddicts who said he had a hell of a line....kinda made me re-think the old Duckster...he sure had the old look-deep-into-her-eyes bit down pat, didn't he?

But, I think he's still a snake....feel sure he has ulterior motives, being Duck and all.

Has anyone else noticed what gets Peggy's panties off? It's when the man is aggressive and speaks to her and explicitly describes how he wants to take her and ravage her body.

Pete (who leans toward kinky S&M) breathed similar words into her forehead outside her apartment door and spoke of how he envisioned coming home from hunting to her while they sat on his office couch. She melted when Duck similarly revealed how she drove him crazy just walking by in the SC offices.

Sadly, her bullsh*t meter is not functioning so she can't yet determine when she's being fed a line. She also doesn't understand that she still has the option of being discerning and selective (even when the men are not).

Some women (including me) take longer to realize you don't have to reciprocate the love (or the lust) revealed to you, and you are certainly under no obligation to drop your drawers for every Tom, Dick or Harry that rolls up on you (no pun intended). I finally learned this lesson right after I realized I didn't have to buy every dress that looked good on me. (It took one maxed out department store credit card to learn it.) Hopefully, it doesn't take Peggy another unwanted pregnancy for her to get the message.

Izzy-- good points. And she could sure use some savvy that an older guy could give her. She's wasting her time on college boys. A night of love at The Pierre? Isn't that where Don took Betty for Valentine's Day? Hope she got to try out the room service and the plush towels!

Greytone-- Unless she's subconsciously trying to trap a man into marrying her.

Wouldn't it be a little weird for Peggy to work on a Heinz baby food ad?

I was shocked last night by Duck and Peggy, and I'm not sure whether Duck truly appreciates Peggy or whether he's just using her. However, I think if the relationship continues, Duck has a lot to offer Peggy. Joan is gone and Peggy has no friends at SC. She has no one to go to for advice, esp. since Don bit her head off. Duck is cultured and sophisticated and he can "groom" Peggy into a savvy businesswoman. I actually think this relationship is a win-win if it continues.

Duck's regrouped at Gray's for a counterattack against Don and he'll get vengeance no matter what he has to do...Even quitting drinking again.

It's interesting that where say Ken Cosgrove is on surface glib and insensitive, even boorish...Within he's a decent intelligent guy who actually is admirably well-balanced...Not about to get shaken by the Brits, the first guy in the office respectful of Peggy's ability...And underneath the panty-chaser, a decent guy who shows some feeling for Annie and is willnig to take "full responsibility". God, who at SC ever was willing to do that? Whereas Duck is surface kind and polished, hesitant and polite but underneath a scheming, uncaring miserable fellow who was willing to press Peter to use his dad's death to get American Airlines, who secretly despises his clients...It's not the drinking that does Duck in...That only brings out the real louse within.

Definitely...Run Peggy run...This man is bad news, girl.

Though on some level perhaps they deserve each other...

On the open thread someone said something about Peggy choosing to sleep with Duck to get the job. But he'd already offered it to her. He's pleading with her, not the other way around.

I think Peggy is just capable of being seduced, which makes her different from, uh,let me see... nobody. We're all capable of being seduced, and for Peggy it came at an extremely vulnerable time. Did anyone catch the next morning, when she even offered to get Don a coffee along with getting her own, that she was showing Don that he hadn't broken her down. That she was able to get over it and was still together. Either Duck is as good as he claimed he'd be, and/or Peggy felt very good about herself the morning after. "See Don. You didn't tear me down. After your crappy little rant I went out and had a great evening at the Pierre in an actual bed for a change. Whereas you Don, look like you had the worse night's sleep in your life..."

OR, she could just suddenly relate again to Don, because he looked like he'd had a WTF evening too.

I'll admit the Duck/Peggy thing blew my mind. But I agree with Gail Klein. I think Duck is quite handsome and when he wants to turn on the charm, he can certainly do it. The sappy romantic side of me is glad for Peggy -- maybe an older lover, with more experience and money, is just what she needs as she begins her life as a Manhattan resident. Maybe this really is Peggy's "time." No sailors, no truck drivers, no Pete knocking on the door at 3 am, no guys eating hamburgers in a bar and living in cold water flats. Maybe Duck will spoil her a little, as he already has with a night at the Pierre. Duck and Peggy are both lonely people -- let them have some fun.

But then I think --- there are no fairtytales on Mad Men. Something tells me Father Gill will not be presiding over the wedding mass of Herman "Duck" Phillips and Margaret "Peggy" Olson anytime soon.

She is modeling, not the kind Betty used to do, but the kind that is done in every company. Whatever you see the top folks doing, you do to get ahead. If the top dogs smoke, you smoke, if they go to the gym, you go to the gym, if they drink and bed strangers, well you drink and bed strangers. Yes there will always be exceptions to the rule, Paul Kinsey and Bert Cooper, they are individualists and I applaud the confindence to be different, but Kinsey's will be the downfall for him. The guitar playing in 3-6 would have been enough for me. Roger said it best, in this business it comes down to "I dont like that guy"

I thought Kinsey was playing his guitar in 3.6 as a retort to Moneypenny's crack about loosing his beard for sake of the PPL men. He went out of his way to act like the caricature they were painting him as.I don't think Paul thought that would attract the British visitors. I thought he was purposely saying FU to them. A protest if you will. So fitting for the time, with a guitar.

Greytone, great observation about what turns Peggy on, but I'm not so sure about this:

"Sadly, her bullsh*t meter is not functioning"

You might be right, and granted that our three focus characters (Peggy, Betty, Don) try to bamboozle in this episode and get bamboozled instead...but I think it's a bit more complex than that. Peggy lives and breathes work. She loves being an ad man; it is all she is and all she wants to be. The happiest she's been this season (or maybe any season) is when she was in a good "space" writing up ad copy easily and clearly in her head ("Old Kentucky Home"). I think what turns her on is, well, a good advertisement. If someone can feed her a line that "sells" them to her, she'll go for them (hamburger guy was her out testing her ad campaign rather than vice versa).

It's very possible that her meter is working fine and in her head she's thinking "Not true at all--" but she's also thinking, "--wow, that's a great line!" She gives into men who show her that they can think up great ad copy for having sex with them. That may still be a mistake, one she regrets, but it doesn't mean that she doesn't recognize that she's being fed a line.

Is it possible that our little Catholic school girl has a real wild side and has no problem just having sex like a man? I mean, she bedded that guy in the bar and pulled the I gotta get up early thing to avoid a morning dose of reality/uncomfortable attempt at asking her out. She might actually find Duck attractive and literally just want to have sex with him (even though I think he's yucky, he might float her boat). All his bullshit words may do nothing for her other than act as an aphrodesiac for a almost role-playing moment.

We women are under such pressure to not act like sluts, or confuse sex with love, but really, every now and then, a gal comes along that really just wants to have sex with or without love involved. We all pretend that we must have love in order to have satisfying sex. Some do, some don't, but I don't know when we started thinking of sex as an "obligation" that we must try to avoid. I mean, yeah, now that I'm older, it is a bit less compelling, shall I say. But for younger women, why can't we have sex "whenever we want."

And by want, I mean, when we want to, not because we feel obligated or putting it in the man's control--e.g., does he love me, will he respect me, etc.? Who cares, if you know what I mean. Why do many females still measure their sexuality or self-worth from the male perspective?

Peggy may be so out of touch with the sexual and gender rules and mores of the time that she doesn't even consider the men's point of view in limiting her behavior. Meaning, she sees the world just like a man does in 1963, with a presumption of entitlement and assertiiveness.

I'd like to see some of the SC bunch get the clap, crabs, the syph or some other dreadfulness (were there any other "social diseases" then?...I believe there was AIDS, but, I don't think it had been identified yet)

Just for the heck of it, it would be a kick to see Don (or whoever) be sitting in a meeting and trying not to fidget with those crabs munching away...gross, yes....but still hilarious....comeuppance, so to speak. That teacher looks to me like she may give someone a nice case of the crabs (at least).

Yes, gross, as I said, but those diseases did exist and with all the illicit sexual activity going on, seems like somebody would end up afflicted. Even if a nice shot of penicillin took care of it all in those days!

Is it Sunday yet? lol

LOL! But even the state of Texas is finally abolishing its abstinence-only education, so since it's obviously impossible to get even the most religious men (and women) to NOT have sex outside of marriage, maybe those SC guys can deign to put on a prophylactic and thus avoid the pitfalls of an active sex life!

I noticed she had on the same outfit the next day. Wouldn't people notice that in the office? If she loved in Manhattan, she could've stopped home for a quick change.