Don't ya just love it :-) !

A few more:

Peggy saying "I'm in a very good place" was too modern.

Office workers didn't smoke pot back then.

The train journey Don tells William to take is actually taking him to Chicago instead of Philly.

Betty will lose the baby.

Pete and Trudy will adopt Peggy's baby unknowingly.

Chauncey will return.

Grandpa Gene was a pervert, we just haven't seen the flashback yet.

Did Peggy say "I'm in a very good place" or "I'm in a very good space"? :-/ ??

Oh, and Chauncey will return! How can you even doubt it?

A Norwegian couldn't be Catholic

Women didn't know what a gay man is

No one used the word Lesbian yet

Peaches weren't in season

This is awesome. lol

1. Carrots too big.
2. Pantyhose not popular yet.
3. Betty's baby will be damaged.
4. Peggy's baby will reappear.
5. Jane has a brain tumor
6. Typewriters are wrong models.
7. The ceiling is wrong.
8. Harry's baby has too modern of a name.
9. The word "TV" was not used in 1963.
10. German helmet wrong size (actually Prussian...)
11. Hamburger too big.
12. Don's shorts are wrong
13. It's not Don's baby
14. Betty will lose the baby
15. Pete and Trudy will unknowingly adopt Peggy's baby
16. Chauncey will return
17. Grandpa Gene was a pervert
18. Norwegians weren't Catholic then
19. No one said the word "Lesbian"
20. Peaches not in season in June.
21. Women didn't know what a gay man was.
22. "I'm in a good place" was not a phrase used back then.

Looks like we need to add "Ken Cosgrove is gay".

NancyinOhio: Actually, I do remember the word "Lesbian" being used on more than one occasion back then. Wish we didn't have to become so pedantic when it comes to these so-called minor infractions of time and place...and fruit. :)

Has anyone ever mentioned that Betty smokes 100's and they weren't around back then?

Oh, yes. How about all the blackmail schemes? Don will blackmail Sal, Betty will blackmail Sarah Beth, Pete will blackmail Don.

The flight attendant will find Don, the guy on the train will find Dick Whitman, and Don will run off to Tahiti with the Jet Setters.

@Oh Fifty two, I wanted so to say you were incorrect, but I should have known better with you...

Filtered versions of Pall Mall have come and gone, beginning in 1966 with the introduction of Pall Mall Gold (the world’s first 100 mm cigarette).

To the gallows with the research library!!

There could not be two Eugene Hodstadts.

I think some items on "The List" that people are citing as incorrect for the era are things that actually have APPEARED on the show: The carrots being some sort that were not yet being distributed; wrong typewriter models; no one used a certain word such as "lesbian;" the ceiling is all wrong, and so on and so forth.

Other items on the list are actually more feelings or opinions that some have as to what may happen (or what they seem to WANT to see happen on the show): Peggy and Pete's baby will return; Betty's baby is not Don's; Grandpa Gene was a pedophile; Betty's baby will be born with some deformity; Jane has a brain tumor; Ken Cosgrove is gay, etc.

I think there are two categories at work here: What has actually appeared on the show and may or may not be incorrect for the era of Mad Men (are these things really so damning?) and things that many seem convinced will happen or that they want to see happen. As for the latter, I often get the feeling that many others may be watching a different show than I am! Of course, everyone picks up something different but I don't know where the: "Gene is a pedophile" came from in some people's minds. Or the "Ken Cosgrove is gay." Or "Peggy's baby is sure to make a comeback," and a host of other things. This is not "Peyton Place." It's far more sophisticated than that. It's not "As the World Turns," either. I often feel that some here believe they know more than the man who created the show, Matt Weiner, and they are absolutely SURE they know what he is thinking and what his next move will be!

Oh, and there is now a thread where someone apparently thinks something is afoot (I guess that's what they think) because there were indeed two Gene H's (same names). Has anyone ever Googled their own name? If so, you will find quite a few people who share your name. My real name is shared by three other people within a ten mile radius of where I live. I have an unusual name. And yet, three others close by do to. Nothing is afoot with the two Gene's. Absolutely nothing. Coincidence.

Lime green makes for cute teddys.

Zabadu-- thanks for the compliment, but I'm frequently wrong. (Ask my spouse.)

My parents were both smokers, and I remember when all the ladies switched to longer cigs. Benson and Hedges, Virginia Slims, and all the older brands that jumped on the bandwagon. I guess they were considered more feminine?? Imagine that!

I may be among the few people that really could care less about the props that are being used or that a certain phrase or word wasn't used during that time. I'm just enjoying the show. The writing and the actors, in my opinion, are great. Watching MM does bring back memories - good and bad. But I don't try to analize everything that's being said.
My guess is that if Matt can't find an original item or reproduce a copy, then he uses whatever they can get.
This is after all a TV show, not a documentary.

Scarletrose - you are right. I worked for a major bank, and there was another employee with the exact same name as mine. The middle initial was the same (although the middle name was different).
It was a pain getting each other's mail all the time. So it is possible to have two different people with the same name with an account at the same bank.

@chatty pattie: No, I don't think you're the only one enjoying the show for it's pure entertainment value. I honestly think that sometimes people get some sort of thrill out of being pedantic to the extreme, desperately searching each episode for some minor error that they can then come here and announce they found. Then, they can trump Weiner and anyone else who did not catch the error.

You're right, it's a fictional program and NOT a television documentary. Although with as rabid as some of these threads often gets, it's a wonder anyone enjoys the show at all! Many seem to enjoy the bloodshed on the boards a whole lot more than the show itself! :)

chatty pattie: Exactly right! The name thing can be a real hassle. Especially when a person tries to collect Social Security and their name is the same as even one other individual (and that other indicidual has a Social Security number that is a mere one digit different). Working in a bank, you know what I mean!

"Lime green makes for cute teddys."

Rasputin, that happens to be a fact. Please stick to either presumed historical inaccuracies or soap opera surmises.

:-)

@ Scartlettrose

In my hometown, there is a man with exactly my same name. He is much, much richer than I. But he also was imprisoned for wifebeating.

Yeah, they look me over closely at the bank. I can see the little wheels in their heads churning ("Surely......?")

(-:

rasputin1963: It does indeed make things difficult when another person or persons in the same town or area share the exact same names. Sounds like the guy who shares your name is a bad apple. A rich bad apple. Anyway, as I stated earlier, I too go through some hassle because of the three other individuals in my area who share my name (a rather unusual name). However, I have found that regarding unusual names, if you Google your name (be it common or unusual) you find a lot of people who share it!

I don't know though, why in the case of the fictional Gene H, they would refer to him as "Gene 2." Would a bank not just differentiate by Social Security number or address, etc.? It probably doesn't matter though, because it seems rather an inconsequential moment in the show. And yet, maybe "Gene 1" is REALLY Betty's father and she just doesn't know it yet! LOL!

Isn't it funny how few of our predictions end up in the actual plot?

How many of us thought Gene would get lost, or have a car accident? Instead, he taught Sally to drive.

Some predicted that Betty and Rachel would meet at Menchens'. Rachel meets Bobbie instead and then is written out.

We thought for sure Betty would learn about Midge, Rachel, or Joy, but she learns about Bobbie. And she learns VERY little.

Several posters conjectured that Betty and Glen would continue to carry on a "Summer of '42" relationship. Weiner has Betty turn him over to his mom, thereby killing his crush on her.

Zabadu:

Pantyhose may not have been popular, but they were certainly available.

"Norwegians weren't Catholic then" Ummm, that's like saying there are no Italian Jews in 2009.

"Women didn't know what a gay man was" - I don't even know how to explain in how many ways that statement is just wrong.

"Harry's baby has too modern of a name" - her name is Beatrice Grace, Beatrice was the 342nd most popular name in 1961 (I think his wife said she was 18 months old). Beatrice was in the top 100 from 1890 to 1934, so it could have been Harry or his wife's mother's name or aunt's name, and the baby may have been name after a relative.

"There could not be two Eugene Hodstadts." - I have a VERY unusual name, there are 3 of us in the world (yes, I've googled myself), yet 2 of us manage to go to the same gynocologist.

@Jordo: These are all issues that keep coming up (all have been somewhat resolved). This is just a silly thread to keep track of all the things people talk about again and again.

Oh, ok, sorry about that!

And thanks, Zabadu! It has been one of the funniest threads yet. I laughed out loud. What imaginations we all have!

Zabadu - Yet again you have managed to turn something that gives you a headache into a thing of entertainment. Love it! Kudos to you!

To add to the silliness ... what about -

Peggy must have been Swedish, not Norwegian because of the spelling of her name.

and

Duck disappeared with absolutely no explanation - does he still work at SC and they just haven't brought him out yet this season?

"Duck disappeared with absolutely no explanation - does he still work at SC and they just haven't brought him out yet this season?"

Duck went off to find Chauncey. I thought everyone knew that.

Okay, here are some things I've gleaned from here and threads, and I'm sure I've missed things. If you have more to add, just say so!!

Carrots too big.
Pantyhose not popular yet.
Typewriters are wrong models.
The ceiling is wrong.
The word "TV" was not used in 1963.
German helmet wrong size (actually Prussian...)
Hamburger too big.
Don's shorts are wrong
No one said the word "Lesbian"
"I'm in a good place" was not a phrase used back then.
Norwegians weren't Catholic then
Peaches not in season in June.
Women didn't know what a gay man was.

Betty's baby will be damaged.
Betty will lose baby
Betty’s baby will live, but die from SIDS or a disease
It's not Don's baby
Peggy's baby will reappear.
Pete and Trudy will look for Peggy’s baby
Pete and Trudy will unknowingly adopt Peggy's baby

Jane has an eating disorder
Jane has a brain tumor
Jane is an anorexic drunk

Harry's baby has too modern of a name.

What has happened to poor Duck?
Chauncey will return
Chauncey ate Duck in a horrible mauling incident

Bobby has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.

Grandpa Gene was a pervert
Ken Cosgrove is gay (or at least bi)

Sal will leave Kitty
Kitty will leave Sal
Kitty will leave Sal for Ken Cosgrove
Kitty will stay, but get pregnant

Jordo wrote:

"Women didn't know what a gay man was" - I don't even know how to explain in how many ways that statement is just wrong.

Urban hipsters surely did know what that word meant in the late-50's, early-60's.

Remember in the early-60's when cabaret/humor shows were popular in NYC and SFCA? There was a young female singer in a NEW FACES OF show who sings a witty plaint about being married to aman who is gay.

My Dad had a Kingston Trio album from about 1960 or 1961. The boys are doing this singalong ditty which they interrupt every moment or two to deliver a funny zinger. "Hey-Liley-Liley-lo!"

"Whaddya call a Mexican who rides sidesaddle?" one of the guys asks.

"I dunno....?"

"a GAY Caballero!!" (hardee-har-hars ensuing).

There was also an off-Broadway show from about 1959 called THE NERVOUS SET. set in Beatnik-y Greenwich Village, the most remembered song from that show was a dirge called "Sing A Song Of The Sad Young Men"

It doesn't take Dick Tracy to understand that the lyrics are referring to the plight of "sad" gay men.

Then there was the whole gay subtheme (Mineo--Dean) in REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE.

1962's film THE CHILDREN'S HOUR portrayed Shirley Maclaine and Audrey Hepburn as Lesbian lovers.

Remember the psychiatrist's dreary lecture at the end of Hitchcock's PSYCHO (1961). "You see," this greying, be-piped don breaks the news to us, "Norman Bates was sick. He was a Homosexual."

(gasps heard in the audience)

In the 1950's and early-60's, "gay" was kind of a "pink-elephant-in-the-living-room" subject... Everyone, even in Middle America was perfectly aware of it (probably everyone on this bulletin board, f'rinstance, can recall at least one gay relative in their extended family back then) it just didn't have a solid recognizable social "container" for it until Stonewall of 1969.

A few more of our erroneous musings:

Folks thought Don would have an affair with Helen Bishop. No sign of it yet!

Many people seemed to think Bert Cooper was either ill or senile. He's still making decisions at SC, sharp as ever.

We thought Mona might find out about Joan. Instead, she divorced Roger because he told her he fell in love with Jane.

We suspected that Roger Sterling would be written out after the heart attacks. Then he ended up in blackface, of all things!

Several posters suspected that the jet setters were planning something sinister with Don involving drugs or wife-swapping, or corporate shenanigans. Instead, he goes to visit the widow of the real Draper, then goes home to Betty.

Of course, none of these ideas or plot lines matter at all, since Don's just been dreaming it all! ROTF LOL

PS: If you like this thread, recommend it!

"Jane is an anorexic drunk" - LOL! But true. ;)

What about this assumption that so many posters seem to have that Alzheimer's makes someone a pedophile? Yikes!

And all of Don's old lovers are going to come back to haunt him and Betty will find out. Midge, Rachel, Shelly, Joy.... they're all going to come back in some sort of "Christmas Carol" type of episode - "Lovers of Christmas Past."

Rasputin, how about the plays of Tennessee Williams? Streetcar and Cat on a Hot Tin Roof come to mind. Although the movies whitewashed the gay characters' motivations.

Hemingway's character Jake Barnes describes his feelings about a group of young gay men in his novel The Sun Also Rises, 1926. It was required reading in many high schools. Also, Catcher in the Rye, 1949, in which Holden Caulfield holds forth on what he considers to be gay behaviors.

@Hanna: That episode would be hysterical! "Don, your first ghost will be Midge..."

@Rasputin1963: All the silly and transparent "touche-ing" aside (that which seems to go on here continually - Oh wait, that's on the main thread, isn't it?) LOL, I find that your postings seem much more relevant especially about the gay aspect of things, than those of the constantly pedantic harpies that seem to haunt these boards on a constant basis. (And being a woman myself, I can say that, but of course I always run the risk of being labeled Monty as I was a short while ago. Deliver me!)

Anyway, I too mentioned on a thread that the word "lesbian" was indeed used back in the early 60s (at least I heard it used) and someone told me I must have been out of my mind because it was NEVER used, period! My ears must have deceived me. (Apparently because they never heard it used they decided it did not exist back then.) And indeed, the word "gay" was also used by I guess, urban hipsters and others, as you stated. I was hardly an "urban hipster" but I do recall the word being used and that both women and men KNEW what it meant. Thanks for pointing these things out. (Remember the movie "Victor/Victoria"? It was supposed to have taken place in the Twenties. The word "gay" was used continually in it. When Blake Edwards was queried about this, he came up with a lot of evidence that the word "gay" had been in the dialect nearly forever).

Anyway, I find that the female posters tend to argue ceaselessly about some of the most mundane things (and talk about name calling and downright hostility. Whew!), Your postings are more accurate and down to earth, at least about the issues that you seem to know. You have presented excellent examples.

Fifty-Two, you and Rasputin left out my favorite. Cary Grant's character in the 1938 movie Bringing up Baby, his clothes hidden from him by Katherine Hepburn, ends up in a woman's flimsy, furred negligee/robe. When the shocked auntie demands to know why he's dressed that way, he shouts, "Because I just went GAY all of a sudden!"

See it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A8U6aUPW48

Rasputin1963: Good points. I had a cousin who was gay. He would have laughed at some of these postings and the take on gays and lesbians. You seemed to hit the nail on the head at least from what I remember when my cousin and I used to hang around to together when we were younger. He is now living on the west coast and I elsewhere. I am not gay but I did learn a lot from him about the real gay lifestyle (sans the sexual part of it).

Is there such a thing as a gay "lifestyle"? My gay friends have been all types of people-- an accountant, an art student, a rock historian, a flight attendant, a soldier, a retail manager, a church music director, a seminary student who quit when he fell in love with a priest. They didn't really have anything in common other than that they were in love with someone of the same gender.

Oh yeah, add to that a teacher, a librarian and a restaurant manager.

Some lived with partners, some in hetero groups, some were married, some lived alone. Where's the lifestyle?

fifty-two: Sorry I brought it up. I don't think this site is for me. I keep asking over on the main thread if this is actually a site of all over-50 women who seem to fight with one another all day long. I am not trying to be a wise guy but I answered rasputin1963 because he seemed to be the only guy around. I am in freelance advertising (28) and really want to discuss advertising (not pantyhose, carrots, girdles, ancient TV shows I never heard of, or even the gay scene) and I thought maybe this was the place. The more I read here about all this other stuff and the fights that seem to break out at the drop of a hat Hey, I grew up with the Internet so I know this is not uncommon but this site seems to have a bunch of mean-spirited females, I assume their females judging from their conversations, who sit here all day and scrap like nobody's business. My interest is in advertising and I kind of thought. Well, you know what, on second thought I don't think this is the site I was looking for.

"Norwegians weren't Catholic then"

True. They were Vikings. Really. 1960's Vikings....

Hi Rasputin... just to say I loved your post of 4:36 - another great illumination on a portion of our cultural mosaic back then.... and a needed one.

For my part... when I was 17 in '60, my pals and I found a hair salon run by some wonderful openly gay very witty men...it was great fun for us (our moms too, we sent them in). The guys used to give us champagne for a "sophisticated treat" on special occasions.

No offense meant, MMisit. My question was rhetorical.

Thanks, all.

To paraphrase fifty-two's point:

"Vee ahrr effrywhere!!" Mua-ah-ahaha (evil laugh)

We control your horizontal... we control your vertical....

(-;

@ scarlettrose:

I once saw this ad---from the 1920's--- taken from the THINGS-TO-DO-IN-TOWN section of a NYC newspaper.

It was advertising an upcoming masked ball to be held in Greenwich Village.

It showed a drawing of a Harlequin of indeterminate gender, champagne glass in hand.

AND WILL THE MOOD BE GAY? the byline cooed,

OH, TO BE SURE! BUT SHH-H.... BE DISCREET... DON'T TELL!

0-:

@ Melba Toast:

Happy Rockefeller once affirmed:

"After a certain age, every woman simply must have a gay friend."

(-;

I'm not sure exactly what she was alluding to. Probably someone to worship her unconditionally on days that the hubby grumbled.

@Rasputin - Heck, those are nothin'. I have ads from the 60s for Midol no less -

Before: Sally is sad (nasty bloating and such)

Sally takes Midol.

After: Sally is Gay!

Or they would just have two pictures - Sad Sally and Gay Sally.

And yes, every woman should have a gay friend. Especially if he rocks clothing like you suggested in the other thread.

William Safire once lamented: Because of the current modern re-appropriations of these words, we writers can never use the words "gay" and "queer" in their original senses anymore. alas! Mourn for "gay"!

But I cry "rubbish" to this.

I still like to slip the words gay and queer---- in their original meanings---- into my speech and writing, when called for: A gay dress; queer goings on at city hall.

I'm not being impish. Yes, I do get some double-takes... but at least I reserve the right to use those words in their original senses. (As I urge every English speaker to do.)

Bravo to you, Rasputin. Yes, "gay" and queer" - two perfectly good words that I use all the time as they were originally meant.

Has anyone forgotten how we beat the "Pink Elephant Theory" totally to death??

I started to see the same shade of pink in various props throughout the entire season.

For awhile, many of us were convinced that Pete would turn serial killer....the gun...the weird hunting story he fed Peggy....him just being weird in general during Season 1.

Father Gill and Peggy: I guess THAT never came to anything. Did he leave town? He sure could play a mean guitar.

Happy Rockefeller once affirmed:

"After a certain age, every woman simply must have a gay friend."

I wonder if she was referring to Truman Capote, who was a close friend to her and others of her class, and whom she later shunned when his publish excerpt from Answered Prayers turned out to be a thinly-veiled tell-all of the dysfunctional lives of socialite ladies like herself.

The moral of the story: if you're writing a novel don't ever believe anyone who tells you that no one will recognize themselves if you use them in a book.