There are a lot of women who do not believe they are pregnant so much, that to them it doesn't exist. Personally, I don't know how that's possible, but it happens. I think that's what was going on with Peggy.

I think that by some chance, Peggy's baby will be adopted by Pete and Trudy. It's not totally out of the realm of possibility. We saw Peggy gaining weight all over, not just in one place, leading everyone (and Peggy herself) that she was just getting fat. Liverwurst, Velveeta and saltines would pack on the pounds real quick, too.

Back then, if a single woman became pregnant and in denial like Peggy, the child was taken away and all records sealed. The matter was not spoken of again. Pete searching out his child would only implicate him in the infidelity to Trudy. Which would probably devastate Trudy since she can't have children. I think he wants to know, but given his circumstances, he really can't.

Peggy's baby has already been adopted out (it's been 2 years at this point and no healthy white male infant would still be in foster care) and the records sealed. If they ever adopt and it DOES turn out to be Pete and Peggy's child - no way to confirm until DNA testing is developed decades down the road - the show will have officially jumped the shark straight into soap opera land. Not gonna happen.

There is still seething resentment under the surface with Pete - note his snarky "she's all over the place" in response to being told Peggy's initials are on the list of clients divided between Pete and Ken. Peggy, being Peggy, has moved on, moved forward. For her, the drama is essentially over. I can't decide whether Pete and Trudy (especially Trudy) have accepted their childlessness and decided to make the best life they can for the two of them, or if it still festers. Perhaps if/when we see more of them at home, we'll get a better idea. It's clearly still painful for Trudy.

This is the one storyline from last season where I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. I too think it's a little odd that we haven't seen Pete really dealing with the issue that Peggy told him about his child and Trudy still obviously longs to have one of her own. I hope they will address it soon.

I completely agree with Auburn Annie about what happened to the baby. That baby is adopted out and long gone. For Pete to bring up the illegitimate baby now with Trudy might be the death of his marriage, and things seem to be going well for them (at least on the surface). He hasn't forgotten that the baby is out there, but he'll probably let it go for now.

I'm looking forward to some juicy Peggy/Pete scenes; something where their working together and we can see if this revelation has damaged their working relationship.

Agreed, Auburn Annie, the baby would have been adopted by now. I was watching Season 1 again and I got a little confused. I don't think that dramatic of an adoption is going to happen, it was just and idea.

There may be another tryst with Pete and Peggy, but I think Peggy may be a little more careful. Possibly getting some "Trojans" of her own. She's a strong girl, she knows what she wants and what she doesn't want. I think she doesn't want Pete as much as he wants her. She's more than just one of a hundred colors in a box. ;)

I've been waiting for the Pete/Peggy shoe to drop as well. I might be wrong, but I don't think we've even seen them in the same room together since the season started. Very highly anticipated.

This is the storyline that has had me on my toes since the last time Pete and Peggy were alone together. I cannot wait to see what Matt Weiner is going to do with it, there are so many possibilities: Pete gets drunk again and they relive his bachelor party night (with or without a trojan!); Peggy has something happen in her life that makes her turn to Pete for advice; somehow the baby returns to the picture (that would be really incredible, but improbable I think); Pete finally gets over Peggy and then she falls for him, etc. I think this could be a thread that carries through multiple seasons, but I can't wait to see how it plays out :)

I think you may be disappointed if you think Pete and Peggy are going to give it another shot, or that Pete is going to think much about their child until and unless an adult shows up at his door looking for his birth father.

There is a theme this season of "You made your bed, you lie in it." We see Roger facing that with Jane, Joan making the best of the Doctor she married, Don trying to be a real father and husband for this new baby, and even SC dealing with the fact that they sold themselves to the British Company. I believe that after the shock of Peggy's revelation wore off, Pete decided to lie in the bed he'd made with Trudy, because he realized that he'd dodged a bullet. He could have been lying in the bed he made with Peggy.

Peggy might have looked like greener grass when Pete was feeling put out with Trudy, but she doesn't look so now. Pete, in case you haven't noticed, is not an adult, and doesn't want to be. An adult puts aside his wants for those of his family, as Don is doing. Pete, however, wants to be the spoiled child. He wants his wife to cheer when he gets the prize, and when he throws a tantrum about having to share the prize, he wants her to soothe and coddle him. If Trudy had a kid, Pete would be shoved to the sidelines. She'd tell him, "Sorry, I have to take care of the real baby"--and you know that baby would become the focus of her world. But Trudy can't have a baby. So Pete stays the center of attention.

Trudy sees his promotions as her promotions--she doesn't want her own. She's of his class, understands him, brings in money from her rich daddy, and dances the Charleston in perfect sync with him. She doesn't twist, go to see Bob Dylan, want her own office, and she would never (if she could) give up his baby--which is a real rejection of him. Pete would have to change an awful lot to want to get back together with a woman who essentially said, "There is nothing about you that I value or need. Everything of yours that you gave me, I gave away."

I'm not so sure that other shoe you're waiting for is ever going to drop.

While I'm not looking for a reconciliation or a re-kindling of anything, I'm really just very curious to see how they deal with each other at SC. Last season had some pretty warm moments between the two of them sprinkled in, and I'm guessing it's going to be a lot of curt, business and nothing else conversations.

Didn't Peggy's sister take the baby to raise along with the one she had about the same time? In season 1 Peggy visited Sis and said, "I brought some pencils for the boys." There were extended shots of Peggy uncomfortably holding a toddler in church and of that toddler running around on the church lawn. Her mom and sister encourage her to say hello to the boys when she visits, but she always avoids it. I thought this was the scenario all along - that the family took him to raise, with Peggy as his "aunt", to keep him in the family and avoid having it known, by adopting him out elsewhere, that Peggy had an illegitimate child.

@Egyptbelle: Even though I have explained to you twice what "really happened" in other threads, you need to do your research. Here's a whole thread about it, including Weiner saying Peggy's sister does NOT have the baby.

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/why-is-the-stor.php#comments

egyptbelle wrote, "Didn't Peggy's sister take the baby to raise along with the one she had about the same time? "

This has been discussed at length before. It was a clever misdirect, like a magic trick, by the show. Peggy's sister was shown to be preggers about the time that Peggy was. So, no, it was Peggy's sister's baby that we saw, and that the sister put in Peggy's lap, not Peggy's.

Peggy gave her baby up for adoption not long after it was born. Her sister, who has always envied Peggy, kept trying to get in digs at Peggy about the illegitimate baby, the mom, as well, wanted Peggy to come out of denial and admit that she's had an out-of-wedlock baby so that she could be confessed and forgiven for this sin by a priest. This is why they kept pointing out the children, putting the toddler in her lap, etc. It was also symbolic thematically that the toddler is sitting on her lap, holding her down, while everyone goes up for communion. It may not be her toddler, but so long as she is in denial about the child, its weight holds her down.

Peggy refused to face the fact that she'd had and given up this baby until she finally admitted it all to Pete. At which point, having confessed it, she forgave herself--both for having the child and giving it up--and, presumably, Pete for getting her preggers, and let it go.

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/10/mad-men-peggy-a.html

OK, below is an edited and condensed version of my entire discussion with Weiner. The first part of the interview was a bit digressive so I’ve put that in prose form rather than in Q&A form. Also, I’ve condensed some passages and put them within brackets.

(For the true obsessive, be sure to check out Matt Weiner interviews from the Star-Ledger's Alan Sepinwall, Variety's Kathy Lyford and watch the Basket of Kisses site for their interview with Matt -- actually, go there now to see Dyna Moe's great illustration of Weiner.)

Onward to the interview!

We started out talking about Peggy, and in my discussion of Peggy’s story line in the finale, I referred to an episode early in Season 2, in which Peggy visits her sister. In that finale discussion, as Weiner pointed out, I got a line of dialogue wrong (I’ve corrected the blog post in question).

I wrote that Peggy’s sister asked if Peggy wanted to “say goodnight to him,” and wrote that that was “a bit of misdirection,” a clue meant to indicate that the youngest child in the sister’s household could be Peggy’s own son. Weiner pointed out that all the sister asked was if Peggy wanted to “say goodnight” – no mention of “him.”

However Weiner also talked about inserting indications in that episode and others that were meant to lead fans to wonder if Peggy’s sister might be raising the boy.
“I mislead the audience all over the place, and that’s the fun of the show. I give out little bits of information at a time and then play on that,” he said.

“But was he clear about the fact that Peggy’s sister is not raising Peggy’s son. He said the child was given up for adoption.

Well, Zabadu, as much as I like this show I guess I'm not a "true obsessive". You must have explained the real scenario on the baby to other idiots who don't read every single word published about "Mad Men" and not to this one. Research? This is just a blog, not a white paper. Keep it friendly.

@Egyptbelle: You are reading "unfriendly" when there isn't any unfriendly. There is a list of all topics discussed on this board readily available for you to look at to find answers.

It has nothing to do with being a "true obsessive", it's about doing your own homework when you don't get something. I posted the links to help you find the answers you keep asking for. You've asked this question before and I've answered it for you before, so I just assume that you don't bother to look at it. I'm sorry if that offended you.

No, really, Zabadu - I've never posted anything about this baby. That was someone else. Unless there are two egyptbelles. I've posted very few times on any of these threads.

@Egyptbelle: Could be someone with a similar name, but I'm pretty sure it was you. Forgive me if I am wrong. I'll go back and look at the old threads to see where I made my mistake.

Regardless, enjoy the links and information. Hope it cleared it up for you.

.....I was thinking the same thing, actually. It IS odd...... it's not every day you find out you have a son out there in the world somewhere, and his mother works twenty feet away from you.

It reminds me of Adam's suicide, and while Don Draper had a pained look on his face in one scene, it was never mentioned again, and we've never yet seen him ackowledge the incident.

Given that Adam basically killed himself because Don deserted him and he was an orphan, it seems it would be a really devastating blow to any normal person. It's amazing to me Don doesn't appear to be carrying any baggage in regard to that.

As to Pete and Peggy, I don't want to spoil anyone but I read a few interviews with Matt Weiner where he actually DID reveal some surprising things.

One of them being that Pete and Peggy might not be totally, completely done with each other, in whatever sense he meant. That could mean a number of things not necessarily related to a romance between them.

I say might, because you never know with Matt and the rest of the cast - they sometimes drop red herrings to throw the fans off the scent, so to speak.

@Thirteen: Are you a professor of literature? Your comments are so insightful. I'm sure I'm about the hundredth person to tell you that.

Re: tying up loose ends, specifically P&P's baby. Matt Weiner comes from the Sopranos school, and though he isn't David Chase, he might also be of the mind not to dot every i or cross all the T's. Remember how Dr. Melfi never got Tony to beat up her rapist? I forget if she even told him about it. Anyhow, that was a second shoe that never dropped.

@Dry: I do hope you're right about Peggy and Pete. I've always thought that their story was far from finished, but like you said, that might be a Matt Weiner red herring misdirect. I love to be kept on my toes. It's not like a soap opera where you know that certain things will happen eventually and, as they say, all will be revealed.

Nice thread everyone! Re Pete/Peggy not being done with one another - think that Peggy who is so much more mature than Pete (nods to all) will continue to quietly advise/help him (as in past eps) and he might use her as a confidant. Maybe: he will be emboldened by this and turn up at her door again, she will rebuff him, and he will try to get revenge at the office but she will outwit him yet again. (That idea may be too soap-ish though.) I too love that this show is so not-a-soap

@thirteen. Bravo oh bravo...

Dry M. Wrote "it would be a really devastating blow to any normal person. It's amazing to me Don doesn't appear to be carrying any baggage in regard to that."

Don is carry a huge amount of baggage, and we do see the results in his affairs, and the way he fled to California and nearly stayed there. In fact, his usual modus when trouble hits is to think about running and starting over again, as if he can wipe the slate clean. But there are other reasons why we never see how hard Don is hit by these things.

Then isn't now could be the show's motto. Now we have all kinds of therapists and counselors for all situations, and everyone is always urged to go talk to someone when grieved or stressed. But during Don's childhood people talked to the local minister/priest or to no one. That goes double if you were a boy. Boys don't cry. Triple if you're a man, and quadruple if you were in the military. You don't whine, show fear, complain or admit weakness. If you've got a problem, you fix it yourself, or find a way to deal. Even if there is some expert for you to go to, you don't go to them. You don't ask for help.

As if that's not enough, certain things weren't talked about. Like illegitimate babies or suicide. Such things were shameful and kept secret. So, it's not so amazing that Don has found a way to push all that baggage down so that only the cool, calm, respectable tip of the iceberg is ever seen. That's what he's been taught to do by his family, upbringing, culture. It's what's expected of him given his gender and this period in time.

So, his brother killed himself? Never happened. Forget about it, deny it, don't think about it, don't talk about it (to whom? He might have discussed it with Anna, but who else in his life can he talk to?). You don't need help and even if you did, you're a man, you don't ask for help. The results of all this denial and secrecy and internalizing are, of course, going to be that milk at the beginning of episode one. Eventually the pot boils over. But it may take a while for that to happen. And who knows how it will show itself when it does.

.....thirteen.....Good points about the extreme denial. Do you think it will never come up again?

We've been treated several times to Dick Whitman flashbacks regarding his origins, at various times in his young life, so maybe his relationship with Adam is on the list down the road. I would say I will take issue if the writers never end up "going there" at all.

We've seen that Don Draper has a SENSE of core values, whether or not he adheres to them, and we've gotten an insider peek at many of his other issues to date, so it remains that there would likely be some chink in that particular armor which they will reveal to us, at some point.

Or not, but I hope so because it's definitely a big, unresolved issue, at least in my mind.....but then, as you said, I'm a modern-day woman, not a 1960s ad man with a dark past.

Yes indeed... most things weren't talked about. Then isn't now as a motto is so spot on. Brilliant post.

Zabadu - You replied to a post of mine about Roger's and Joan's marriages not being obvious. Maybe that was what you were thinking of.

I'm guessing Thirteen is a therapist! She picks up on so many behavioral cues that go unnoticed by the rest. Almost scary..

Don says something confessional to Anna in the Mountain King episode. He says, "I ruined everything, my family my wife, kids. My brother came to find me, I told him to go away." No mention of the suicide. But he recognizes that he doesn't, nor does he want to tell Betty anything. He thinks it will only "confuse things".

"I've been watching my life. It's right there. I keep scratching at it trying to get into it. I can't." At least he knows he's not the man he could be.

I think it's as simple as the fact that Pete just doesn't want kids. He was stunned that Peggy had his baby but I don't think he cared about her giving it up. In those days, adoption records were sealed and there is no way Trudy and Pete are ever going to get Peggy's baby. It just would not happen.

Thirteen, as always, excellent posts.

.....chopin.....You may be right. He didn't have the reaction I expected about the baby, but then we only saw him in that one room seconds after learning the news, and then months later in S3:1.

I always chalked up his resistance to children to be because it never seemed to me that he was really in love with Trudy. Kind of a 60s version of "He's Just Not That Into You," according to my mother.

But the fact that Pete is focused on other things and not obsessing about that baby leads me to believe you might be right, which actually might be a good thing.

He is still somewhat young, even though in those days having kids in your early twenties was pretty common, and Pete isn't exactly the most intuitive person in this series.

Pete has even said he didn't want children, at least for the time being. He told Trudy that, and he said it to Peggy, when he asked her if she wanted kids (before he knew about her pregnancy, of course); she answered "Somday" and he agreed with her.

Maybe Peter is just a wee bit immature? Still trying to get the motherlove he never had? "Don't go to the well, it's dry," his wife tells him sympathetically.

I hate the scenes where Trudy babies him. I know she's just being a supportive wife, but he's such a tantrum-thrower. And he whines so much! Imagine him as a father trying to calm a toddler who's had "too much birthday" and is screaming inconsolably. (The toddler, not Pete.) Can you really see him getting the gang off to school because Mommy or Nanny is sick?

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