Yeah! I get to be first!

Sab, I just let you be first. No, really, congrats

New baby
How do we know the baby is really Don's and not the guy in the bar Betty had sex with in the back room ?

jusme36

it's don because

pregnant women can not get pregnant

Another description of episode six from, of all places, the Lansing State Journal:

• "Mad Men," 10 p.m., AMC. Big promotions are expected - for Joan's husband at the hospital, for Don when corporate chiefs arrive from London. Then come the surprises; in the final minutes, there's the sort of dark touch "Twin Peaks" would savor; it's tragic, dramatic and (at times) oddly funny.

Wow, I've never posted so high on this blog before. Woo-hoo!

Anyway, I think the missing credenza is significant because it was the foundation for the ant farm. So the ant farm is SC and the credenza represents society as a whole, which was on shaky ground in the 1960s.

Enjoy the show tonight everyone. Love this blog!

Auburn-- Now there's a teaser! So hard to wait, but it's the kind of anticipation I actually enjoy.

Stefanchikm-- nice analogy, I agree it makes sense. Plus, credenza is such a fun word to say over and over. Did you know it means "belief" in Italian?

OK, so I saw a sneak-peak for the next episode online (though I can't find it on the AMC site) that looked official, exact intro as the ones they give us, but the sneak peak was different than the one with Pryce giving the announcement that PPL officials were visiting SC. Sometimes they put new sneak pic commercials out mid-week, but I hadn't seen this one. I'm not going to give a synopsis because some people don't want to read or see spoilers, but I will post the link for those who are curious. All I will say is that it involves Joan and is a little juicy.

http://www.fancast.com/tv/Mad-Men/95854/clips

http://www.fancast.com/tv/Mad-Men/95854/1252978077/Sneek-Peek/videos

Oh, by the way, I can't spell. Sneak peek! Grrrr. We need an edit option on our posts.

Gotta love our Joanie....in royal blue....so perfect for our Queen Bee of Sterling Cooper....God, I hope the "celebration dinner" and the "surprise party" aren't because of a pregnancy....hopefully they're just for Greg the A-Hole's promotion....which he will surely bungle....soon, and then immediately after his firing, he will be mowed over by a street cleaning truck....or garbage truck....much more fitting.

Betcha Joanie plans a surprise celebration dinner for Greg's "promotion" and he has to come home and tell her he didn't get it! Hey, SC.

Thanks "fifty-two," I like the word credenza, too. Makes me think of The Cat in the Hat. (Although I think in the book it's gredunza, or something like that!)

I didn't know that it means "belief," but that makes it even more significant. Also, I meant tomorrow night, obviously. I wish it were on tonight!

Thanks so much @Hanna for the incredible sneak peek! I wouldn't have seen that if you hadn't posted it here. I enjoyed this one much more than the PPL visit oriented clip. Getting excited for tomorrow night. Good to see some of Joan's sassiness back.

@Mambo Deb, that's a very good prediction!

@SCfan, an enthusiastic "h*ll yeah!" to your superb idea of a garbage truck taking out Dr. Rapist! We can dream, right?

Ooh, may I drive it? I could back up and do it a couple a times.

I'm enchanted to see Rachael Mencken Katz again.
She's GORGEOUS and obv an ongoing client w/ SC/PP&L. I wonder how on a "one-on-one" basis w/ DON, she'll behave or (hopefully) misbehave. . .

It is such DELICIOUS conjecture to anticipate what will transpire on our FAV TV show. (I never really watched TV before NOW-ala MM) 'cept for movies on AMC and TCM.

Mad Men enhances my humble LIFE since it is so meticulously brilliant and historical and smart. I am priveleged to be able to comment in our wonderful mix of perspectives. Best, best wishes to ALL: and a BASKET of KISSES too!

THANK YOU!

@hanna- yes! Juicy sneak-peeks to the max! I

@bluegirl- @flowerpower- @mambodeb-
Dr.Rapist needs some of Joan's tough side for once..."It's her time!"

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the sneak peek video and hope it didn't offend anybody ( I know not everyone likes spoilers, so please don't watch it if you aren't spoiled). It looks like it was released by AMC, so I trust it's kosher to post it. Anyhoo, I'm excited by a Joannie-centric storyline and a juicy catfight. Hopefully she slams Moneypenny and Dr. Unworthy.

Time for Joan to take her gloves off. It's her time.

Joan fighting dirty could be very interesting. She always manages to remain her dignity and lady-like appearance while fighting the good fights. She may very well have to take her gloves off to fight her hubby ... and Moneypenny... and maybe Jane too. She's the queen bee at Sterling Coo, and she needs to be the queen in her personal life too.

School's out for summer, so, will Miss Farrell be dropping by the Draper household "just to see how Sally is doing?" I still say it's odd to have a parent conference the last week of school. Oh yeah, we'll see her again.

Yes, any and all who wish a turn driving the garbage truck (to flatten Dr. A-Hole) please line up behind me.....I get to drive first to chase him down like a dog in it...trap him in an alley....and then we can all have a turn!

Like you say, flower....first forward, and then reverse.....oh, say about five times should do it, I think.

....who wants to be the one who gets to explain the multiple tire tracks on him after we tell the cops he fell down under it and we didn't have time to swerve??

....uh....how wide are the alleys in NYC?

Maybe we should just get a steamroller!!

Maybe it's just me, but I think Sally's teacher needs some acting lessons.

@ hana - thanks,now that I feel like I've cheated a bit I won't eat that piece of cake.

@ DeepDish - I think Sally's teacher is young and very dedicated to her children. Out of concern she asked to see Sally's parents. Is it possible that Miss Farrell may be red herring? Don would be playing to close to home. Just a thought.

@ stefanchikm - Interesting analogy! I think Joan had the building crew toss the credenza because of the infestation of ants. And of course, Joan tried to kill the ants behind the elegance of her Hermes silk scarf.

SC, oooohhhh. Perfect! I'll bring the duct tape. We'll call this a code, a code, what code is this? (I still hate him and his buddies about the code pink thing)

I just noticed that Kurt is in the preview. Cool, glad he's still around.

Joan didn't follow the Chief of Surgery wife's advice and is preggo. Oh, and Dr. Harris is passed over for the promotion (I know, I know. L'shana Tovah).

I want to see some SEX. C'mon Matt, "The Sopranos" is chock-full of it. Some GUNS too!

@hanna-speaking of Joan taking her gloves off to fight hubby...in the past two episodes, what little time we saw her she had gloves on. She even had gloves on while spraying bug repellent on the ants. And in a clip that someone else posted of her talking to the secretary in the upcoming episode she has on gloves...wonder if there is anything to that? It just seemed interesting to me especially after you posted that about taking her gloves off.

Gloves, hats, corsets - practically no one wears these things anymore (except for in church or in costumes), but they help make our Joannie the gorgeous lady that she is. When did these pieces of clothing go out of vogue, especially the gloves?

fannan - And WHO do you want having the aforementioned sex, may I ask?

I would like to see somebody get the axe tonight - come on lots of guys got *fired* on the Sopranos

Greg, Roger, Kinsey?

Shake it up baby now

I can't wait to see what tonight's episode brings! I do hope the "Brits" exit this season though.

We could do without Paul. But I wouldn't mind seeing Pete get a serious disease, or at least a bad rash. No, let's give the rash to Moneypenny because he's such a twitcher. Should this be a new thread? Who do want rubbed out?

can't forget Dr. Pig, I don't just want him to die, I want him to die slow (can I say that?).

lovelovelove "The Sopranos." The plot machinations, in tandem w/ the nefarious yet winsome cast of characters, are truly a blood-soaked TAPESTRY of human frailties and passions, aspirations, sheer brutalities, victories, and failures: in all aspects of the realm of experience and comprehension. BRILLIANT!

I want to see Don and Betty (tenderly) make love, post-Gene Scott Draper. I want Sal and Kurt to get together. I'd love to be a voyeur and watch (beautiful) Jane and Roger "in delictio flagrante." I want to watch Pete and Trudy or Peggy and Pete; or all of the above, discover their innermost desires and act upon them accordingly. . .

I want (wanton) Sally'sTeacher: Miss Suzanne Farrell, to be so lustful that she's hiding in the bushes "chez" Draper. I want Bert Cooper to find a gal or boy. I'd like to see Lane Pryce in the act-of course wearing his spectacles-w/ his lovely wife "Rebecca." I just wanna see action of some sort! (Joan in all of her glory too; w/ her Brando-esque hubby!) MMM.

-SWEET hanna; you are always so elegant; I yearn to be thus!
-Auburn Annie: I too, at times feel like I am watching "Twin Peaks"-esp this season!
TA!
-Deep Dish: always a pleasure to see your provocative musings!!! And KEEN insights!
-Was There, McTwisty, and Hobocode: ya'll are adorable and so infinitely tolerant and chic and intelligent! GRATIAS et GRAVITAS!

Happiest MADMENDAY!
(My cat-nap is necessarily NOW!)

Deep - Yes, make a new thread about who we want axed. Or we could do a "Survivor" style thread and vote characters off the Mad Men island.

Hey Cats, I guess you can't show up fashionably late for these shindigs huh?
Heres a new ball of yarn for you to toss around.
The new Entertainment Weekly has a listing for episode seven in the 'what to watch' section.
It reads:
"Betty gets involved in local politics. Has someone been reading Betty Friedan while cooking meatloaf dinners?"
...I know, right?!
See you after the show.

Who's going to watch Jon & January on Oprah tomorrow?

Wow, are we already onto discussing Episode 7 before 6 even airs? You guys move fast. Sounds intriguing, G.! Betty and politics... I thought that was more Helen Bishop's turf.

@FancyNancy, I totally agree re: Sopranos and you say it so eloquently! It was a phenomenal show, definitely one of the best of all time. Interesting thought re: Bert... gay or straight? He's a quirky fellow who relishes all things nontraditional. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he was bisexual, or... who knows? ...

[vintage clothing nerd filter]
@Hanna, speaking as someone who owns numerous books about 60's fashion and actual fashion magazines from the era but wasn't actually alive yet then, I would estimate that hats for both men and women, and white gloves were already on the way out of style by '63-64, and then corsets/girdles started to fall out of favor with the influx of more casual, looser-fitting, youthful fashion trends from England by early 1964, such as those by designers Mary Quant, Andre Courreges, Rudi Gernreich, etc. who all emphasized a less structured, less hourglass-y, almost childlike silhouette for women.

However it was all gradual and varied a lot. A lot of it had to do with the growing generation gap in American society. There were still plenty of people, especially those over 40, who would still be wearing hats, gloves, and girdles well into the early 1970s, so I think it's difficult to put exact precise dates on the trends. Standards changed subtly over time and also depended a lot on any given person's location, age, social status, how closely they followed fashion, etc. There would be tons of differences between a mainstream average person and someone on the cutting edge of fashion-- such as between a Peggy and a Rachel Menken.

Who were the people in Betty's dream when she was under anesthesia? I presume it was her parents but who was the black guy sitting in front of her mother? I couldn't figure out the connection.

Hats are still pretty much expected for ladies in certain houses of worship – usually expected in Eastern rite Orthodox religions. Pants, I think, are also frowned upon.

Gloves were “in” several years ago for brides – elbow length gloves with strapless bridal gowns were pretty popular. ( I never “got” the strapless bridal gown – to me, there is nothing like a bridal gown with sleeves, either ¾ length or full length sleeves)

Hi delphinium, he's Medgar Evers, murdered during the civil rights movement. He's the guy Sally's teacher was talking about. Welcome Del. Love to see new people here. There's a thread about him. Go to "topics" and scroll down.

It's almost time for the show. Doesn't Jon Hamm get better looking by the minute?
For those who just "look" here: I bet you have a thought and are maybe just a little reluctant to post? Come on! New people are always welcome here. You will find that once you jump in, it's fine.
Please, join in.

Did anyone bring up how they changed the opening montage of the show, and the music last week? Ever so slightly, but enough to notice.

Off Topic: Was anyone else having major problems with this site again?

I had this thing where Friday afternoon all posts stopped, and no new topics either. A few moments ago I tried posting on the Ep5 Open Thread, and after a bunch of wrangling over and over it posted and suddenly all these new posts show up, but no new threads since Friday.

So I go out and come back again and here this thread and all new topics are showing up. So I guess, first can someone answer did this post make it, and two anyone else or was it just me having problems?

Greg, so many problems this week. I would write a post, submit, and then get that nasty message. It was really so hit and miss. It was a little better today, so keep trying.

@Greg, I tried to post on the episode five thread early Friday afternoon and also received multiple 'Server Error' interruptions.
I didn't have time to look into it further that day, but assumed it was due to all the bickering and shot glasses being thrown in the room. I ducked and quietly crept out, waiting for the air to clear with this episode six party.
The Server guy e-mailed me and said they were working out kinks.

SJ, didn't notice, but I will watch for it. You have a good eye.

And who said Betty in politics? I can't even imagine a jump that far. She is so "outnumbered" and that new neighbor goes for "walks" and will the divorcee Helen Bishop buying a home on her block affect property values? And didn't she ask who JFK was? She only knew that he was handsome. Geez.

@Fancy I am blushing. chic? yeah I guess you are right.
@Deep There is a Mr. Bookman at my door. Did you turn me in.
just a guess We have had Duck back this season, Kurt, Dale are in the previews. Someone else coming back tonight? Personally I would like to see Betty's old room-mate again. You remembere "The Party Girl"

@hobocode52, Juanita was the name of Betty's former roommate the "party girl", I think. Who do you think is going to be in the market for an escort?

@Deep Dish, @G. posted that Entertainment Weekly says something about Betty getting into politics in Episode 7. I found that surprising too. I think back in Season 1 Betty had heard of JFK but she told Helen she didn't know if "we" (meaning she and Don and implying that her vote would be his decision) would be voting for him yet or not. She didn't appear to be very interested in the election.

Regarding Miss Farrell, there has been some talk about whether the parent conference was anachronistic or even made sense so late in the school year. As I understood it the encounter at the water fountain had involved the other girl's mouth getting mashed in at the water fountain. Even back then that would have been back then that warranted a phone call home, even if it is clear that Sally had not intended to do cause that kind of danger.

Pre-airing post: Maybe someone already posed this but they made a mention last week of Carla the housekeeper being on some kind of extended leave with her family.
Of course with Betty having the kids and the new baby-Gene.
I wonder if perhaps the teacher Miss Farrell will be hired on at the Draper household while she is off for the summer, Since there was obviously something up with Miss Farrell phone call being shown in the "last week on MadMen" promo today.
And considering Don is trying so hard to be the good family man, that would seem to be the way that she would be close enough to him that he would give in to the temptation. Anybody else agree?

hey Deep Dish- I loove your new avatar

OKAY I AM MAKING THIS THE OFFICIAL AIRING TIME DELINEATION

OKAY I AM MAKING THIS THE OFFICIAL AIRING TIME DELINEATION

OKAY I AM MAKING THIS THE OFFICIAL AIRING TIME DELINEATION

A can opener to open a can of beer. How old school is that!

Sorry to John Slattery for not winning the Emmy, but congratulations for the nomination!

HAHAHA thanks Freddy.... Guy McKendrick is a wee bit annoying... What a shmo.

What is Joan going to do to save face?

Don't ever get comfortable Mr. Fancy pants. The best way to move up in advertising is to move on to your next agency.

Oh lord! POOR JOAN!

CONNIE! It was CONRAD! Way to go Maddicts who picked it up!

Congrats MadMen for best writing!!!

It was Conrad Hilton. Bravo to those who figured that one out.

Love Connie... so glad he's back...

Roger's line: My name is on the wall. But it wasn't on the chart.

Roger is washed up. Rich, but still washed up.

So sorry that Elizabeth Moss did not win her Emmy. Congratulations for your nomination, though, Peggy! Only 24 years old, you have many a nods to come!

Where is everyone?

OH MY G-D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS INSANE! She ran over his foot!

JESUS!

Let that be a lesson to all you kids out there: Never drink and drive your riding lawnmower indoors at an office party.

Damn it, Lucky... but it's so fun!

Deep and G, thank you much for your responses. After I posted that, for this hour until now I was the last post with nothing new. I'm finding I have to log out, then log back in again, and here you all are. If anyone else is having trouble maybe try that.

That will definitely make one of the "most shocking moments" of S3! Now I know why Harry was in his undershirt in the previews.

Our boy didn't make it-sorry Jon Hamm. :(

So, do you think Lois will get canned for that?

"Hi, my name is Peggy Olson, & I'm writing copy. And smoking marijuana. in my office. in Manhattan. United States. On the 3rd of July. Because that's how we do things. here. in advertising.

Hey, hey. Sally can't be bought that cheap. A Barbie doll? Trauamatized for life. Did any get a good look at the doll's box? Was it real? (worth more than the doll.

Let's do the math: Gas-powered vehicle, sharp spinning blade, driven indoors by an inexperienced drunk driver. Drunk or sober –– how stupid do you have to be to stand anywhere near that thing when you see it coming?

Thought Joan was going to get a promotion for her quick thinking and stay working for Sterling Cooper.

Oh Sally... poor thing!

I love that Sally said that the baby looked like Grandpa Gene...

I finally figured it out: Sally looks and sounds just like Gertie (Drew Barrymore) from ET.

"And you are very important to me too..." Ah, Betty still personifies motherly love!

Outstanding Drama Series - - MadMen!!!!!! Congratulations!!!

Kiki better get a flipping Emmy for this season!

And yes, Lucky, TOTALLY Gertie!

Been said, but that was insane---insanely shocking and funny. Don't know why the blade was engaged though....

Did they sell Dr. Pepper in New York in 1963?

Congratulations to Mad Men - best Drama Emmy.

Now, about that foot....

Can you imagine anything more refreshing than Joan and a bottle of Dr. Pepper !

Damn-it Lois -- if you wanted the day off THAT badly why didn't you just say so? Sheesh!

What the hell just happened? This is Twin Peaks redux.

Nothing runs over a Brit like a John Deere

Betty not seeing the big picture with Sally and making sure that everyone sees how loyal a daughter she was by naming the baby Gene, no matter what it does to others....

Poor Joan. She'll be back - she just needs to figure out how. I can't imagine her in Arkansas...

So now Joan is stuck at home and Dr. Love didn't get the appointment.

And nice of Betty to more or less blame Sally for the child's problems. And I am also sure Sally heard the entire conversation before she entered that bedroom. "She'll get over it"? Boy, this woman really doesn't want to be a mother, does she?

Go bang your head against the wall? Is that the way to talk to your child?

On the rewatch:

Just noticed the reference to Profumo affair...

Hilarious freddy!

Aw geez, I just realized the whole story of Sterling's Dad's severed arm was foreshadowing for 'The Lawnmower Incident."

Holy mother of sheep! That was some serious blood splatter. Ironically, Joan probably dealt better with a nutty medical emergency than her idiot husband could have. She clearly would have made a much better doctor than that chump at least. Too bad he didn't have a close encounter with the Deere, yeesh...

@BettyCrocker - you just got that? Are you sick? You normally pick that stuff up right away!! :)

Delphinium: That was Medgar Evers.

Joan's now stuck at home because she was counting on Dr. Love getting the chief resident appointment. It didn't pan out -- interesting to see how this story arc develops.

The PPL guy walked in and will never walk again.

I think Cosgrove looks a little like a young Kirk Douglas in certain ways. Just not as cocky.

Poor Guy walks in & gets carried out! "Just when he got his foot in the door" ha!

Paul, Ken, Harry, ?
All splattered with blood, only minutes after discussing the Draft. They are the only men in the office who haven't seen war....yet?

Joanie don't go!!! Peggy had something to tell you!

Bertram attempted to serve tea while the Brit served coffee and cake to the SC higher ups...

Kinsey the poser: playing his guitar while Guy strolled by.

Sally scared of the re-appearing Barbie which Betty bungled. Sally isn't the child Betty thinks she is.

The marker squeaking when they wrote in Roger's name! What the heck is his job anyhow?

Don's snake analogy eats both city mouse & country mouse in one gulp!

Plus the Tom Sawyer staged funeral analogy....yikes!

Oddly we see Don is the better parent -- even with his limited time (and interest). I like this angle, but is Betty redeemable?

I'm going to miss Joan, so much so that I can't see the series without her. She'll be back.

Not much Peggy this episode. Something's brewing.

And I'm with @Lucky on the John Deere. Whoever thought running a tracking with working blades at an office party could go so wrong?

Ha! Run over by a drunk overweight American on a quintessential American made John Deere riding mower (because Americans need to sit while they mow).
He's now a useless gimp without his handsome charm.

I still can't stop laughing about Kinsey CASUALLY performing in office. What a boob!

And stop shooing Bobby out of his scenes. We'll probably soon see Betty batting him away from her 'light' with a straw broom in upcoming episodes.

Joan's bloodstained skirt. Flash ahead to November 22, and Jackie Kennedy. Eerie.

I'm sure Lane will be giving Lois a very BIG FAT BONUS for her excellent driving at the office party!! Ha Ha!!! But she really she have been driving on the left hand side.

"Go bang your head against the wall."
And the Mother of the Year Award goes to....

I'm sure Lane will be giving Lois a very BIG FAT BONUS for her excellent driving at the office party!! Ha Ha!!! But she really she have been driving on the left hand side.

So, those of you who wanted more "office", how was that? A severed foot enough office for you?

How do you think Joan will come back?

Great insight, @cattychick. Don't forget that Jackie loses a newborn in a few weeks. I wonder if there will be another parallel...

And don't you all love Betty's comment to Baby Gene: "You can sleep all you want, you little pig in a blanket." HUH?

Cattychick - I guess this is the episode where we liken Joan to Jackie - and the episode that foreshadows the Kennedy assassination.

- The handsome, charming, degreed man in charge becomes the 'fallen' man
-Gorgeous, in-charge keep it together Jackie, er I mean Joan does what she can in the aftermath, and that blood-splattered dress!

My only question is, if the writers are addressing the end of camelot mid-season, what are they are they trying to say is going to happen in the remaining episodes???

Did anyone notice how "Mother of the year" didn't even bother to wrap the Barbie doll she gave Sally in real wrapping paper? That lazy chick used the Sunday comics.

Bombay in 1963? That'd be punishment, not a promotion.

amybett -Paul, Ken, Harry, ? All splattered with blood, only minutes after discussing the Draft. They are the only men in the office who haven't seen war....yet?

Harry was in the Army already.

Did anyone notice in the next preview that Don is laying face down on the floor?

Zab--yes, I am sick! The flu, so not very sharp tonight. It will take a few watchings to get all the nuances.

And tell me I'm crazy, but does Sally have the black Barbie?

Well maybe this will get rid of Lois now as Kinsey was wishing for.

So the count so far getting cut

Guy - foot
Greg - can't cut
Lois - cuts
Don and Roger get shaved
Lane did a good job of cutting
Connie - got his mouse idea cut
Joan is cutting cake

Deere Ex Machina has to be one of the funniest moments in Mad Men history; Guy walks in but doesn't walk out. It's so darkly hilarious and shows our Lady Joan at her best. As others have commented, Joan should have been the doctor in her family. Of course, Moneypenny must not be allowed to take Joan's position. If necessary, we'll organize a write-in campaign so that Joan gets her job back.

What's wrong with using the Sunday comics for wrapping paper. It was a common.

Zab--Yes! I am sick...I have the flu still and am not at my swiftest. I may need to watch three times before I catch the nuances.

And tell me I'm crazy, but was that a black Barbie that Betty gave Sally?

Anyone notice next week's preview? Don is face down on the floor...

@nokomis - you're right - and someone on another thread said they are too old to be drafted anyhow...

I say Don ends up as acting head of SC because Brit glasses guy can't do anything but pinch pounds?

I also say Joan comes back because Brit clipboard ninny didn't do anything to help after Guy got mowed.

Just wishful thinking....

@Lucky, we wrapped in comics all the time when we were growing up (although granted this was not in the 60s). In my experience and recollections at least, kids just love to tear apart some paper and don't care much what it looks like. She was trying. Trying in a deeply misguiding way which does anything to avoid having an actual conversation, but still...

@Catty. Hehe, I loved the pig in a blanket comment. Babies do look alot like those little sausages in a pancake. I thought it was rather silly and affectionate, two side of Betty we rarely see.

PS Is anyone else having a really rough time viewing/posting tonight?

@Betty Crocker: Not a black Barbie!! Get well and watch again!!

Poor Sally. That poor child will be doing so many drugs in a few years. Or therapy. I'm not sure which yet.

Lucky Strike - It was appropiate because I remeber my days in Elementary School our book covers were made from plain old brown paperbags. I don't remember wrapping paper being elaborate enough for "kids". I also think she wanted it to be fun, playful & colorful from one child(Gene) to another (Sally).

at 11:46 pm, nikia_ava asked:
"If the writers are addressing the end of camelot mid-season, what are they are they trying to say is going to happen in the remaining episodes???"

This IS the end of Camelot. This is the end of Sterling-Cooper as they know it. And the smart ones (like Peggy, Don and Lane) recognize change and roll with the progress it brings. Truth is they've all seen it coming. The problem for most (like Roger and the old guard) is accepting it. Their world at SC is changing just as the world they live in is changing. And that is what the writers will be addressing.

someone please tell me... joan is returning -right? draper will become president, joan will tell him about her dr and draper will rehire her w/a huge promotion!

and, was that don laying (had fallen) face down on the floor?

*First time commentor,longtime reader[its a ritual after each episode to come and read your insigtful comments!]

Another camelot refrence: Guy coming in as new leadership brought down in his peak (jfk)

Joans bloodstained dressed immediatley brought Jackie to memory,(as mention before)

"Brit glasses guy"? Lane is played by Jared Harris, Sir Richard Harris' son.

Love the look Joan gave Don after the peck on the cheek.

How 'bout Don protecting Sally from the evil Betty and her spawn in the red tinted room. Even the dog sensed it.
Betty has probably been sneaking out of bed every night and haunting little Sally with images of dead Grandpa's corpse.
She certainly looked guilty when sitting up in bed with that cigarette.

@ Betty Crocker; at first I thought that Sally had been given a black doll as well, but when it zooms in it appears that the doll was actually meant to appear as an Anglo with a tan and dark hair. According to my trusty search engine, the first black barbie, Christine, was still five years away.

Although, that does make me curious (and someone on here might know this), if big producers like Barbie weren't making dolls that looked like ethnic minorities, where there smaller producers who were? Or were you just out of luck?

Observations:

Conrad Hilton was on the 19 July 1963 edition of Time magazine. In the episode Connie said that the cover would be on the newstands the next week.

Conrad Hilton died 3 January 1979, age 91, making him about 74 or 75 in the scene with Don Draper.

Joan bought Saint John Powell tickets for Oliver, which he said was "a tragedy with a happy ending, my favourite kind". Both Lane Pryce and Roger Sterling, in a way, have experienced a tragedy with a happy ending, following from Guy's maiming by the lawn mower. Lane will be kept on in New York indefinitely. Roger has a chance to prove his worth, after being "accidentally" left off the new organization chart.

Attitude of the Brits to Guy once he lost his foot. They said: how would he work; he could not walk; he would never golf again. Don, who has reinvented himself, and who supported Peggy despite her out-of-wedlock-birth, didn’t automatically think that Guy’s career was over.

I can't imagine them writing Joan out. She'll find a way to come back without losing much face.

I saw Don on the floor in the preview...high blood pressure? Betty knocked him out?

@zabadu the man in the floor actually looked like Greg to me,especially because of the bottle in the background,being that he was drunk this episode...maby hitting the bottle hard after getting fired?

Don admiring Peggy - the once over - at the party...

Don with his arm over the back of the sofa at the hospital - exactly like the lead-in scene...

The black-haired Barbie??? I thought the original Barbie was a blonde. Was that one supposed to be Jackie? Little girls like for their dolls to look like them. Shame on Betty.

When are they going to start calling the baby Scott? Come on, Don, insist! "We don't know who he is yet. We don't know who he is going to be, and that's a wonderful thing."

Oh No..Sterling Cooper can't lose Joan..Love Joan!
And how loving and suportive she was to her loser
husband, Dr Harris..Joan is one classy Lady!
***Kudos to '63Chevy' for predicting in Episode 3 'My Old Kentucky Home' that Connie in the Country Club Bar was Conrad Hilton and would work with Don Draper in the future! Great insight..
keep em coming!

Lucky Don. His day started off not so well as he was passed over for a young upstart, then he gets a call from a Time's cover "boy". then his competition gets literally mowed over, by the woman he fired. He owes that Lois!

SO what is going on with Joan? She can't leave the show?!

@PixiDust: I hope you're right, but I saw dark hair, not blondish like Dr. Rapist. But I hope you're right. And I hope he's dead!!! Suicide maybe?

Ah yes, suicide! Easy way for Joanie to get back to SC!!

God, I hope you're right!!!

OMG... what a melodramatic show tonight. Just getting better and better. "Guy Walks Into an Advertising Agency"... classic!

The scene in the hospital room with Joan in her blood-spattered woolen suit.. all she needed was a pillbox hat and a bouquet of roses. So disturbing.

NO WAY will she move somewhere like Arkansas with that loser "doctor" of hers. She will find a way to save face and stay, not sure if she will actually divorce him though. She needs to. He'll probably have to do something really drastic for her to take that step.

Poor little Sally, it makes sense now and I could see how terrified she would be seeing Barbie reappear and staring at her after she threw her out the window!

That WAS Don laying on the floor in next week's scene?

I'm not getting Peggy lately... she seems even more uptight than usual.

Best line of the show tonight... "just when he got his foot in the door". You gotta love Roger!!

Joan isn't going anywhere, or if she does it will only be temporary. Like they'd really get rid of one of the stars.

Don's passed out next week maybe?

Thanks again Nokomis, perhaps I shall hire you as my personal proofreader from now on? I have zero memory for names....

sorry for the double post earlier!
site is jacked up tonight!

@Jackie O: In 1963 they introduced the "Bubblecut Barbie", in three hair colors, blonde, red and brunette.

Here's a redhead version of the doll
http://www.dolls4play.com/idguide/idbarb07.jpg

I had a brunette!

does anyone have a better insight as to how Joan will come back? I mean, she is a key player.....why would she leave the show?!?!?!?!

It just hit me! ( Something is always hitting me!). Guy---"GUY" ___walks into an advertising agency!

Is that really Don lying on the floor? I didn't watch the second time. That lawn mower thing was horrible. I'm betting thousands more new viewers will watch tomorrow nights rerun!

It will be interesting to watch the Conrad Hilton story if one is developed. Don was smart, letting the man know he wasn't free.

I just had a thought - someone somewhere else mentioned it might be Greg lying on the floor in the preview - suicide maybe? Joan could come back easily if he offed himself.

Loved the interraction between Joan and Don at the hospital. And she called him "Don" rather than Mr. Draper... great scene.

Has anyone watched the sneak peeks yet? Is that Don and Betty's house that they are in or are they looking at a new house?

By the looks of the furniture in the previews, that is Greg on the floor not Don... I'm going with suicide... then Joan gets her foot back in the door at SC.

I love the fact that everyone enjoyed the black humour at Guy's expense. The guys laughing at Roger's quip and Don and Joan sharing a laugh. It was obnoxious that they surprised everyone with their new COO like that.

I had a boss like Guy come in after a buyout of our hotel. He had a similar background: connected, all the best schools, but he didn't do s--t on the job. Just acted very smooth, wore great clothes and impressed everyone with his command of 6-7 languages. Then we all began to realize that all he could do was pick out china patterns for the hotel restaurant. I wish HE got run over with a John Deere. I could relate all too well to what went on there at SC in the morning.

amybett,- Great analysis on Paul, Harry and Ken splattered in blood vis-a-vis Viet Nam,as well as Joan's bloody dress vis-a-vis Jackie K. never thought of that, that whole scene was so intense, I couldn't focus on the details. I need to watch this a few times and take notes. I did almost choke up my gin and tonic ( my preferred MM viewing drink) with the Profumo affair remark, " Well, I could order up a few prostitutes- I hear your PM likes that sort of thing" -great stuff

as far as my hunch about the teacher ( Ms. Farrell) filling in for Carla the nanny over the summer, the latest preview shows Betty calling an unknown person and saying " I know people always call you when they want something" mmm could be her calling Ms. Farrell

I guess I'm the only one who thought "oh my gosh, she's giving the girl a carton of cigs."

@ Jackie. Eh? I'm not really following the problem with Betty getting a brunette doll for a blond. Why on earth should all little girls like dolls that look like them? I actually probably had every kind of doll *but* one with my coloring; my favorite was a beautiful china doll crafted to a plains Indian. Next I acquired a gorgeous china Inuit, than an African American, then a brown skinned latina. A vertible UN of dolls, created entirely by accident and devoid of any parental pressure. I simply chose the more beautiful dolls I found in the store/catalog, and that happened to be the 'ethnic' ones (whatever 'ethic' means...).

(in case you're curious, I think part of it had to do with manufacturing. The blond ringlet dolls were mass produced and quite ugly. Ethnic dolls tended to be made by smaller suppliers who did more beautiful and unique work. At least that was the case in my youth)

Really, I know that Betty's quite the cad at times and deserves criticism, but I really don't think we can call 'shame' on her for this....or claim that 'all girls' want dolls that look like them.

"We don't know who he is yet or who he's going to be. And that is a wonderful thing."
Dick/Don would think it's wonderful...

@LSBud - my Husband said the same thing about the cigs!

@DoubleDon: It appears from the sneak peek that Betty has redone their living room.

Bert tells Roger, "...it's about letting things go, so you can get what you want".
Just as Don continually does.
"Roger, we don't need to talk about this anymore, I promise".

Roger why can't be like your brother Don? He's handsome and charming, good in bed, and he likes children and puppies.

About the "wrapping paper"...

I'm quite familiar with the use of comics for wrapping paper. But as some of you have recollected, it's usually something KIDS do when THEY give a gift. Kids typically don't have jobs and money for gifts, much less the frivilous wrapping paper, bows, etc. So it totally makes sense for a child to use newspaper because it's cute and funny coming from a child. But coming from the prim, proper, well-to-do, social know-it-all Betty Draper -- it strikes me as a really lazy thing to do. (Her being a pampered kitten and all with nothing better to do.) Especially when the whole idea is to make your smart and sensitive daughter (who lately is feeling forgotten, threatened and over-looked), feel special and wanted.

But we can agree to disagree. Betty will always be my Mother of the Year.

So, to finish the sentence:

"Guy walks into an advertising agency and gets his foot cut off by a riding lawn mower."

Sorry if that's already been done tonight, but it took about 20 tries to log in!

Hubby says it should have been wax paper over the chicken salad at the end. No plastic wrap just yet.

Excellent comments, fellow Maddicts! This episode will forever be known as The John Deere episode....
What is with the references to snakes? Lane is given a snake, and then Don talks about a snake going without food. Any others? Of course, there are still those caterpillars from Season One and last week.
Don in charge....hires Joan back...yes, we all want that! Joan was magnificent in the crisis, as Jackie was. Jackie actually grabbed a piece of JFK's shattered skull as it flew away out of the limo in Dallas. She thought she could save it and save him.....sorry to be morbid, but it did happen.
I had a blond bubble head Barbie....many girls had the black haired bubble head Barbie, like Sally. Fantastic episode. I think it was Joan's doc on the floor....he and Don are built alike.

I loved that the "real" Roger was back, even for a moment. "Sit down Sissy Mary". Loved it.

What? Are you people kidding me? No one has written anything about the story. Don Draper is the coolest man in the history of television and you leave dribble about Joanie's dress.

Isn't anyone disturbed by the fact that Don Draper is keeping his family together. Don is a solid father comforting his daughter on the arrival of a sibling? Come on? Don? This can't last. This isn't Don. People don't change at 35 years old because they have kids. These brillant writers are setting us up. That other shoe is gonna drop like a couple of 30-06 slugs from the Texas Schoolbook Depository. What's it gonna be? I'm on the edge of my seat for the next 6 days, 22 hours and a couple minutes.

Conrad

Guy walks into an advertising agency, but leaves on a stretcher. I'm really having such great schadenfreude right now. Sorry to gloat, but that was just so awesome in every way!

I'm sure you all noticed when Peggy fainted that Pete caught her. Not that usual look of disgust on his face, like when Freddy peed his pants or Roger had his second heart attack. He was there for her.

Best scene was the LOOK exhanged by Don aand Joan-the class acts of the place. Dr Mark kills himself (hope). Is Betty interviewd by social workers cause of Sally behavior ? Sally's scream scared my cat.She sounded like Gertie in ET..
Joan and blood was Jackie.

@Conrad: I agree - Don can't hold that family together for long, especially with Betty expecting perfection and only seeing it in Baby Gene so far. Her other kids are nuisances and disappointments.

What about Mrs Harris' John Deer Green dress?

I just can't get used to that name yet.

Don and Joan are so much alike.

Did anyone else notice the stains on Bobby's shirt at the beginning of the episode, when he asks if he can "pet" baby Gene? A little creepy, and foreshadowing of the stains and blood spatter to come in the rest of the episode...so much happening tonight, and loads of black humor - even Don laughed! Loved it.

"Roger why can't be like your brother Don? He's handsome and charming, good in bed, and he likes children and puppies."

G, just wanted to let you know that comment made my night. :)

@Dobiegirl: I was surprised that Betty said nothing about the stains on Bobby's shirt. I was expecting a tirade.

Crazy episode tonight--I really enjoyed it! The scene with Don and Joan in the emergency waiting room was terrific. Joan was sizing up Don as her equal. In many ways, they are alike. The last scene with Don and his children was so touching....could I love Don Draper any more??

Flipped over quickly to see Mad Men win the Emmy for best Drama. Matt made a comment like "What a year! First the presidential election and now this!" Not everyone felt the same about the election as they do about Mad Men. I would prefer if Mr. Weiner kept his politics out of it. Just my opinion.

Ms. Tasty:

Good catch about Peggy and Pencil Neck Geek Campbell. There is more there for sure.

You are so right about the leaving on a stretcher. What's better is that the Lousy Brits through the star quarterback under the bus after he gets caught under the mower. Lousy Brits! This is just what Roger needs to get his mojo back. Joanie will be back--back with Roger too I expect. But what about Don?

Conrad

LSBud- a carton of ciggies for the kid! LOL!

I knew it was a barbie by the size and shape of the box. Although it was interesting to see that the box was not the see through ones my daughter's barbie dolls were in.

I didn't own any barbie dolls as a kid. I only received whatever doll at christmas time that happened to "fall off the truck". The girls who visited their grandparents who lived up the block had tons and tons of barbies and clothes and they let all of us little girls in the neighborhood play with those dolls. They were nice generous people and I have great memories of them.

I bought a lot of barbies for my daughters when they were little. Too bad they always ruined them by giving them a haircut or even worse- taking the heads off and standing the body up and putting their own (large) heads on top of them in a shoebox- like weinerville!

Well, at least they didn't put Joan in a pink wool suit, trimmed in navy blue. Also, all you guys who noted her gloves. White kid gloves: the trademark of Jackie K. How apporpo.

Pete caught Peggy when she swooned. Very, VERY old time romantic! (Very 'Illusionist')

Okay, so Don & Betty couldn't think of the right thing to say to Sally, when she was screaming . But, I thought the family dog said it all, & said it
best.

"Don't worry about it. I guarantee in our business, something exactly like this has happened b4". ROGER COMES BACK! Yes!

@Nancy: Hi, I loved the sexual tension between Don & Peggy, & Don & Joan. Don screws around, but he doesn't s%@#t where he eats.

@Greg: You nailed it! I had the same trouble w/ the site than you did.

@hanna: Shhhh, don't get NANCy started on all that sex talk.

@hanna & ABLUGIRL: I wear gloves from October thru April. I LOVE my gloves.. I feel more polished w/ them. They complete "my ensemble"

@MadMenSuze: as usual, everything you say is pure poetry. I wore full length sleeves on my wedding dress - spectacular! You always know best. (I love the 'color' palette of 'Inside Daisy Clover', & I love how Plummer sends Robert Redford back to her, dashing, w/ yellow roses.)

@Deep Dish: Betty told Francine she "hated" that John Kennedy.

I am almost complete on answering everyone's GP & 4 movie choices, & will post when you can go check that thread. I expect to post all tomorrow.

@Hanna:

In case some people didn't get it, when Betty tells Bobby to hit his head against the wall, she was being facetious. Like when I would get angry with my mom and say I was going to run away from home and she'd say something like, "I'll help you pack" or "I'll give you carfare." And then I'd have to pout because I'd think, "well, she got me there..."

Bipolarbear.....We had Saran Wrap in our house when I was 12 or so (Early 60's) but we didn't like it. Very hard to handle. The plastic wrap we use now is SO much better. The other choices were wax paper and aluminum foil.

Re Plastic wrap vs wax paper in 63--Saran Wrap was so around a while already. and it clinged better then.

Whose office did Lois crash into?

Gosh, give Betty a break. She's trying with Sally when she gives her the doll and note from Baby Gene; I'm certain she's still sleep deprived, and who wouldn't snap when one of her kids starts screaming in the middle of the night and wakes the baby. And I was glad when she makes the point to Don that she's making certain the memory of her father lives on with her son's name (It's what people do, Don). I don't think she's the best mother in the world, but she's at least trying. And when she says to Bobby, "Go bang your head against the wall," and "Only boring people are boring" (a paraphrase of Zelda Fitzgerald), she sounds much like her own mother in the previous episode.

Hi gang, apologies if I repeat anything but I've been having major wrestling matches with the site's technical difficulties, so I'm just going to post up and hope it sticks. This may double or triple or quadruple post so again my apologies if so.

Loved the emphasis on the shots of Sally and the nightlight: Sally, I think 3 times, looking toward the light so to speak. That was great.

(how about Betty wrapping her Barbie in the comics page rather than wrapping paper)

Last week I had thought there was something going on in the way Betty was immediately bonding with the baby, and names him Gene with no consultation. I thought maybe lines were being drawn.
Tonight, we saw it again; a line between them and using the children to do it. That's just wrong, Betty.

And Betty telling Sally she's important, just like Gene said to her last week. That was great also.

Back at the office: Coop sending Roger and Don to the barber to allegedly bond to solve an issue by themselves. Remember Roger tried the same thing last year with Don and Duck and Don just skipped the dinner and came right to Duck.

Joan and the foot was interesting because she had, unlike Dr G, "brains in her fingers". I felt it was about that expression in addition to the regular obvious irony.
Joan does have brains.

Kudos to the folks who spoke of Conrad Hilton back at the party episode with Don and the alleged bartender.

Speaking of which, it got lost between the lawn mower bookend scenes, but that was a great, even though short, dialogue between Conrad and Don. Total Mad Men.

End of the episode: did you see again when Sally is acting up, we again had horizontal and vertical shadows draped over Betty when she was in bed?

And, for I think the 4th episode in a row, at the very end yet again we end with Don just for a moment with no armor and showing affection; this time with Sally and the baby. We've had this, Don putting his arm on the small of Betty's back last episode, putting the blanket on Betty at the end of another, and after the maypole walking after Betty and kissing her in the moonlight. And now here with the kids.

Know what was great with the Joan kiss on Don? It wasn't the unexpected gesture of the kiss; It was the look before and after. So great. It wasn't the same, but similar to, when Nixon v Kennedy and the play, when she eyeballs Sal after the kiss. We know when Joan is interested in something, she apparently gets a look on her face both before and after. Have to tell you, as a guy I was liking the way she looked at him right before. And then the tender touch she gives him wiping the lipstick.

You wouldn't exactly see that sequence with Peggy, but Joan can.

About Joan: just because she's leaving Sterling-Cooper doesn't mean she's leaving the show. She doesn't have to work in the office to stay on Mad Men. Besides, she needs to keep that gig now, and the shenanigans and structural upheaval at SC will provide an easy opportunity for her to be re-inserted in the office.

Did anybody else have to watch this episode twice – what the hell? And all you who said things this season were moving slowly – wash your mouths out with Palmolive.

Freddy, Freddy, we miss you! SC needs you now more than ever. Thanks for coming back.

Hobo; don’t make me shush your ass. And don’t make me use my librarian voice. Overdue books are a very serious matter.

Lucky, how about it? Is that the first time we have seen a can opener? Loved it.

Okay, I want to know exactly who was the first to say Connie was Conrad Hilton. A HUGE bow is in order.

And no more threads for Roger quotes. EVERYTHING he says is a memorable quote. The man is a legend in his own time. The guy gets his foot in the door and then we cut it off. Roger, lips of gold.

Poor Lois. BYE?? Hope not.

Poor Bobby! “Only boring people are boring.” Okay, is there still anybody out there who wants to defend that ice bitch?

Tell me Joan is not off the show! I don't think that was Don on the floor looked a little bigger than him. Loved the scary Barbie sceen, she used to scare me too with the non bendable legs and Liz Taylor makeup.

Let's say Betty makes a call (seen in the preview) to the touchy feely politician she met at the Sterling's 'black-face' bash, and thats her involvement into local politics, as Entertainment Weekly suggests.

Who is asking Betty if she's suicidal in next week's episode? And who is it Betty says "you admire things all day long, I just want you to help me a little" (or something like that)

Looked like Don passed out--but MW is probably just trying to mess with our heads.

What an episode! I have ben watching from the very beginning but I think tonight's was truly exceptional. Just when you think you know what to expect, SC is changing the carpets due to massive blood shed... Joan is memorable. What a way to make an exit and that kiss she planted on Don's cheek, old friends saying good bye. I have never seen her character stronger. She knows how to handle men in all situations: climing up the corporate ladder, at the top of the ladder, at the edge of life... Love her!

Oddly enough, John Profumo died at age 91, the same age Conrad Hilton. Profumo was the UK War Minister who resigned on 5 June 1963 from Cabinet. Profumo was wealthy so he didn’t need to work; over time, he redeemed himself through extensive charity work.

When Moneypenny says that many of the Sterling Cooper secretaries are plain, Joan shoots back saying that they could hire some prostitutes, knowing that the British Prime Minister enjoyed their company. Joan is corrected by Moneypenny who says that it was the Secretary of War. (The Mad Men episode takes place in mid-July 1963.)

What do you suppose all that business with the shaving was about? Ever word and every image means something. Don had a heavy 5 o'clock shadow when the was putting the daughter to bed. He had sorter hair than usual too. The s$*t's gonna hit the fan. Don is high and tight but it won't last. I guess that Roger get's his mojo back, buys out Cooper and the Lousy Brits and Don flies off the handle. Just a guess but big stuff is coming.

Con.

Hey Racy! Yes, Betty did tell Francine that she "hated that John Kennedy", but that came later. After something, can't remember exactly. First, she had no opinion, just said he was handsome, and then hated him for some reason. Something happened in between. I'd have to go back to S1 to find out for sure. Anybody remember?

I should have previewed: in case I wasn't clear - both John Profumo and Conrad Hilton died at age 91.

People thinking that Joan will be off the show is the new pantyhose discussion. Urrgh! Auburn Annie already gave us some optional spoilers that show Joan in upcoming episodes and even if she (AA) hadn't done so, common sense should tell you she ain't leaving. Sorry, I know I'm being rude, but come on. The fact that she is necessary to the running of SC was only mentioned like ten times during that episode.

Btw did anyone else notice that Hooker was having a shag when the mower came through the door? If he'd been "on duty" that wouldn't have happened in the first place. It's his fault. Hope they can his skinny a__! Pryce should ask him to fall on his sword.

I know it was the 60s, and nobody had even dreamed of workman's comp yet. But that's sleazy. Guy gets maimed for life while on the job and they fire him! Can you imagine the lawsuit today?????? Guy would be the sole owner of PPL/SC

Sally's Barbie could actually be a "Midge" doll, she had short dark hair, introduced in '63. Hmmm, now where have we previously seen a dark-haired woman named Midge...

@Conrad: Shaving scene - all about "re-bonding"? Who knows. Betty sure liked Don's smooth mug though!

Ms. Bi Polar:

Hey you can't golf and you are out-of-here! Let's keep our priorities straight.

Conrad Hilton

@Dobiegirl, @zabadu - I was floored when Betty didn't order Bobby to go change his shirt.

I was expecting them to fire Lois on the spot and ask Joan to stay on "for now" since they'd be suddenly one short, and that "for now" would go on indefinitely. I can't imagine them writing Joan's character out of the show.

Betty to Sally: "And you are also very important to me." For Betty, that's practically gushing especially when it comes to Sally who's being set up to see herself as never-good-enough.

I'm not convinced that's Don face down on the floor next week. I did notice the rolled up sleeves, and that didn't seem very Don-like, but who knows.

@Dobie: It isn't a Midge doll. It's a brunette Bubblehair Barbie. I had one just like it.

@bkk snakes, interesting...maybe Don is the new snake in town?

@Conrad - I like Don holding the family together, at least someone is doing it. Dick changed everything to become Don, so why can't he change now? However, I do agree that it can't last..

@bipolarbear - I think Betty being asked if she's suicidal is meant to throw us off? Betty seems pretty strong these days...albeit she's pretty out of touch with Sally's emotional maturity.

@Amybett: Maybe the Betty being "suicidal" comment comes from the future ep where Betty becomes "political". The old crony women might think that's a suicidal move for a housewife.

Let's not get hung up on the language of the upcoming episode. Someone saying "Are you suicidal?" to Betty is probably asking her if she really wants to do something they think is foolish.

Sabadu:

Re-bonding. Good. I think it means clean. Don has cleaned up his act. Cleaned up his act and re-bonded with his family. But who liked the California Don Draper? I can see him in Hollywood. Michale Corleon moved to Vegas. How would Don do in Hollywood?

Conrad

@ zabadu - thanks for adding the link about Barbie!

I think Joan should have told everyone the truth, everyone will know sooner or later BUT I'm also thinking that SC will have a hard time replacing Joan & make her an offer to stay or come back not that she'll be off the show.

Conrad Hilton, I wondered when he was going to show himself again. Now we know.

When that tractor went over that guys foot, my jaw dropped to the floor.......then I busted out laughing!

@Summerbaby: I think Joan would rather lie than tell the truth now - she's kind of gloated about Dr. Rapist and it would make her look kind of bad in the girls eyes.

Best we kill Dr. Rapist.

Summer:

When what's-her-name ran over the fresh-faced brit, I said "Holy S*%t." Then I started laughing. One just doesn't know what to expect with this show. One of he best ever.

Connie.

Catty Chick: that was tooooo deep. Blood on the dress like Jackie. You have GOT to come back.

and does Betty have an IQ of 86? She's okay with going to London because she can get a pram and a nanny. Was Mary Poppins even out yet?

and DAMN Harry!! If he had given Joan her due and selected her for script writing (which she was very good at) she would have move right up with him and his promotion.

I think that is Don on the floor passed out as well.

I think Betty is beginning to stand up for herself after having the dream where her father says that she is a house cat- important but not really doing anything. So she digs in her heels about naming the baby Eugene after her father. Good for her. I also agree that the suicidal comment for next week's ep is about maybe Betty getting involved in politics. She is getting more assertive.

I think she is a crummy mom. She really is not too comforting to those kids when something bothers them. I don't know if that was the thing to do back then with children. That idea was children should be seen and not heard. At least Don comforts Sally. I guess that is because he had a bad childhood and knows what it was like to not have a parent to comfort you when something bothers you as a child.

If the writers are foreshadowing November 22, 1963, with blood on Joan's dress, what in the story is it foreshadowing? Who dies? Cooper? This show is so caught up in the period, what happened after Kennedy's murder will have to happen in the show. Any thoughts on what is going to happen?

I was going to point out that the furniture in the room was too cheap to be the Draper's. My bet is Greg as well. Looks like it could be a hotel of some sort.

Doesn't bode well for the doc.

"Are you suicidal?" Wonder if Betts has a postpartum depression problem.

I wonder what the clients of John Deere will think when they hear what happen at SC with their product...I'm sure they won't appreciate the cutting edge humor,no pun intended.

I'm goin' out on a limb and predict that season 3 will end with the end of PPL/SC, and season 4 will be a new agency, founded by Don while he takes Joan, Peggy, Ken, and a few others. His first two big accounts will be Hilton Hotels and Madison Square Gardens. Each episode this season gets closer to that eventuality.

Best moment in tonight's episode:

PEGGY (hopeful, bright-eyed) This is real champagne!

DON (world-weary, disgusted) No it isn't.

Guy may have prestigious degrees from Oxford and (can't remember the other) but apparently isn't smart enough to move out of the way of a lawnmower.

Just sayin'.

Racy: Even better yet, I had a replica of my ma's 1955 wedding gown. Gotta love those classic styles.:)

Joan will have a way to come back to SC -- she saved a life! (and wow, did that scene move fast--- it was like you went "huh? what happened?" And then it hit me that that his foot was run over.)

"He'll never walk again...He'll never golf again..."

I also did not have Barbies. I had a Kissy and a Charmin Chatty and a Chatty Cathy and a Thumbelina doll but no Barbies.

Ms. BiPolar:

Nice call on the new agency but I think it's Roger who splits after the Brits continue to insult him. The Roger/Don enemy angle is too good to pass up and whole look and set of the show is the Sterling Cooper office. Don can't leave that. It's the show.

Connie

Conrad: Thanks for reminding me of the golf reference.

Ms. BiPolar:

The other school was the London School of Economics.

Conrad

Why was Don smiling while looking up at the sealing?

Plenty of time for them to keep Joan on at PPL/SC. The scene at the hospital has a line where they mention they'll have to re-think their re-organization. Can't wait 'til next week.

Never had a barbie,but I begged for and got a Busy Lizzy doll. The commercial falsely animated her doing real housework.
What a dud.
Marcia got the pretty dolls...

@PilxiDust: I think Don was smiling thinking he was going to be promoted.

There were only 13 posts when I posted the 2nd time, so I caught alot of what you guys posted b4 mine. It wasn't double posting on my part..

@NokomisFL: "Is that the way to talk to your child"? Of course not! But, now we have a good retort for Monty! ('Go bang your head on the wall. Monty')

@Llama: I caught Roger's severed arm story as foreshadowing the foot incident on the 2nd viewing, as you did.

@pixidust: You posted! Congratualtions! You're officially in our very exclusive clique. Now, one rule: You can only post w/ us on this site for the rest of your life. Welcome!

@JackieO: Great catch!, about Don's arm across the couch to Joan, mimicking the opening credits! Didn't catch that. Bravo, * thanks for sharing.

@aniston127: It was Alabama, not Arkansas, I think.

@Freddy Rumsen: Excuse me, but I am the only poster allowed to choke, or expereince a "spit take" of my beverage after hearing great lines of comedy - both the show, & on this blog.

@HazelBishopRed: Oh no, don't you know by now? Never, ever have your cat in the same room as the TV when watching Mad Men! Both FANCYNANCY & I have had our cats scared to death by action in the show.

pattyo wrote: on September 21, 2009 12:31 AM

"Flipped over quickly to see Mad Men win the Emmy for best Drama. Matt made a comment like "What a year! First the presidential election and now this!" Not everyone felt the same about the election as they do about Mad Men. I would prefer if Mr. Weiner kept his politics out of it. Just my opinion."

So Pattyo,
Lemme get this straight: it's not ok (with you), for Matt Weiner to speak about his politics in public, but it's ok for YOU to bring up yours here? (talk about Nazis.) I'm guessing you wouldn't of had a problem whatsoever with him expressing his politics if he were a Mclame (I mean McCain) supporter, right?

See, that is one of the major problems with conservatives and those on the right: all your warped stances are based on the selfish and self-serving philosophy of "Do as I say -- not as I do." Hypocrites!!!!

Pattyo, here's what I would prefer: I would prefer if people like you stopped attempting to prevent others from having the things you have. You know, simple things like free speech and health care.

Just MY opinion.

Your pal,
Lucky Strike

@PiixiiDust, he was think about the all the new British 'tang' he could get while living in London.

I love to get on this blog and see everyone's thoughts, but sometimes I think everyone is overthinking the scenes. This episode was to me, clearly, a humurous way to look at the old problem of Don's insecurities. There is an upheaval at SC, his trusted boss strayed him to thinking he was going to have a chance at going to London with a big promotion. He even goes home and gets Betty all excited about it. This does not come to fruition and Don has to sit in a boardroom and watch a wetback, highly educated, correctly connected, and charming man come in and steal his thunder once again. Don is beat down, he is sitting in the corner with Peggy feeling defeated. Then (and this is what makes me love this show) Conrad Hilton calls. One conversation with the man, where Don showed his true colors, and Don gets the deal of a lifetime. Cambridge boy gets his leg chopped off and Don is going to come out smelling like a rose! It's the American dream my friends. Don is the American dream!

@Racy - I'm hurt. You haven't mentioned me yet! :)

@G: You are so right. Don was imagining the lovely little Brit girls...

@Zabadu:you must be right! big "duh!" moment for me!

@racy4:well do! thanks for the welcome.

Gotta admit, I thought the same thing (Jackie Kennedy) when I saw Joan's dress with the blood on it.......but at least the dress wasn't pink, that would have been tacky.

Ok how many ladies out there KNEW that was a Barbie box? Two types of boxes every woman will recognize: a Barbie box ....and a Tiffany's box!

So did Don & Roger make up? I'm a little unsure.

Dr Greg mentioned when he got the bad news on getting passed over for promotion that he felt like the floor opened up right under him. Hmmm

Maybe that is Greg on the floor next episode.

Last week there was some discussion regarding Peggy's pay scale and the fact that she doesn't have a college education. That got me thinking.

Does Dick have a college education? Is he using Don's pig skin? Did Dick/Don go to college on the G.I. Bill after the war?

If this was covered in S1 or S2, I just don't remember.

Anyone know?

@Hapynzap:"felt like the floor opened right under him"...I forgot about him saying that...this just makes me belive even more that its Greg on the floor.

The last few episodes we've seen Don "bring home the bacon & fry it up in a pan", nurture the kids and keep the family together. At what point will Don realize he cheats on Betty, not because he's a cad, but because Betty is simply dead weight?

The next family rift won't be because Don is cheating, but because Betty is unable to fulfill her role as wife or mother. Don is wishing he'd married a Joan instead of a Betty.

@Llama, I'm gad. It's nice to have a good night chuckle.
Bert does seem to be a weary yet permissive father figure to Don and Roger.

@AlfredENewman: I think Peggy said, "This GOOD champagne.", & Don answered, "I don't think it is."

Lucky Strike -
Remember, the gift was being given to the little girl from her baby brother... it was not Betty's intention for her to think it was being given to her by her mother. So, the comic paper was appropriate based on your initial premise.

I love this series,one of the best programs going, but wanted to pick up on a previous message about the future not going well for some of these characters. It feels like from the series title and content that someone is going to end up like the animated character in the opening theme and jump off the roof or something tragic? The easy answer is Don Draper due to guilt from living someone else's identity but I think it will be Pete Cambell.

After watching the lawnmower scene for the third time, I still can't figure something out -- does anyone recognize the songs playing in the background during the party parts? The closed captioning just describes it as "rock" music. I'm not sure that the song when the scene first starts really sounded like 1963, but by the time Peggy and Joan are talking, just before It Happens, the music sounds more appropriate.

I just couldn't get a good enough listen to it to recognize it. I'm pretty good with music from the '50s and '60s but just couldn't hear enough of it. Did anyone else? Or maybe it was just a generic 1963s music sound bed?

DeepDish..Maybe you missed it,but on my 12:06A Post I gave due credit to '63Chevy' for their Conrad Hilton prediction and Connie and Don working to- gether insight! Sorry to repeat.

The beauty of this show is that it is called 'Mad Men' not SterlingCooper...so my dream would be for Don to leave and start his own company with Sterling and bring Joan,Peggy,Sal and his other favorites with him. That way Peggy can get a promotion, Joan can be given more responsibility, etc. Although Don is not a big women's rights advocate I still feel he knows the value of smarts when he runs into it. He may even bring Pete in since Pete does worship him in a father figure way (yes, I know, Pete has tried to undermine Don in the past but he also looks up to Don at the same time) and is very, very ambitious.

I aplogize, I just jumped into your discussion and have never been on this site.

I laughed so hard last week I cried when the guys crank called peggy, but this scene took me by surprise, and when Roger said, guy barely got his foot in the door and then said this has happened before in another office, I almost peed my pants.

Tonigjht's episode was entitled: "Sally develops a sleeping disorder".

@bipolarbear: I'm the poster who brought about Peggy not having a college degree. As for Don, we've attempted to discuss that b4. The GI Bill is a good guess though!

@zadadu: I wasn't sure if you & ZERELDA were still posting to me, after my "Homecoming Princesses of the site". I actually originally typed in wrote "Homecoming Queens", but then it occrred to me that "Queens" might be an seen as an offensive term, so I quickly changed. I'm sure you read that some angry poster took me to town for that! To quote the great Zabadu: "Not on your life!" (Oh, Hi!)

@racy4 I'm sure you are correct, re: champagne. But your lines have the same impact and still made for a great moment.

Draper is going to use "Connie"Hilton to take back the company from the Brits. Peggy and Joan will replace some of the men copywriters.

Anyone else amused by the Brits complete dismissal of the American July 4th holiday? I believe someone responded to the collective office groans by saying "They forgot about the July 4th holiday". Of all American holidays to trample upon...funny.

Don't forget that there is another British invasion to come...in approx. 6 months time...The Beatles -- Feb. 1964. Another huge cultural shift just months after the assassination.

As well, what was the deal with the light? There were 3 consecutive scenes about the light. 1) Joan tells husband "Let me close down the light"...next scene is Sally staring at her nightlight...next scene Don is lying awake staring at the overhead light with a smile/smirk on his face. What was he thinking?

Flyboy1: Welcome. If you've seen seasons one and two, do me a favor and scroll up a little. Can you answer my question regarding Don's education?

Racy - FYI, Mary Poppins was a book series for children before it was a movie. First published in the 1930's and 40's.

LSBud..LOL I also thought at first that Sally's gift was a carton of cigarettes!

Shelby: The lights were going out. Joan puts out the light (that was weird phrasing though "Let me close down the light") Sally searching for all the light she can get from her little night light and Don staring at the dim light fixture. I noticed the light references too, but didn't really think about it 'til I read your post.

Hapynzap:

I think you're right because if you look at the environment it doesn't look like a Sterling Cooper office, so I agree with you, I think it's Dr G

PixiiDust -
great point! I know that MM had to get John Deere's permission to even use their equipment/name on the show. Also, I noticed it wasn't vintage, but instead a fairly new model.
I doubt they are concerned about what people think about the severed foot because it occurred during a careless, foolish, inappropriate act -not while mowing a real lawn.

Did anyone else think that Joan's remark, "Knock yourself out," to Peggy sounded out of place for the 1960's? It is a slang expression popular today. I am pretty old and I never heard that expression used until the past few years.

Hi, All!

You know, I think (as somebody born in 1943), that this discussion is so far leaving out the political meaning of the episode. Think of the Bob Dylan song at the end, 'Bout a funny ol' world that's a-comin' along. Seems sick an' it's hungry, it's tired an' it's torn, it looks like it's a-dyin' an' it's hardly been born.I think this is about both the Kennedy assasination and the explosion of the Vietnam war. Think of how many young men would soon be without feet (think of B.D. in Doonesbury!) and went on to make lives--and these British guys think it's all over. And I believe (though I can't find it on Wikipedia) the scandal of the Profumo affair was actually about race, the prostitute Christine Keeler was involved with a Jamaican man. I think all hell is about to break loose and the apparent domestic tranquilty is the calm before the storm, these lives are going to be as turned upside down as the whole nation would be in a few years. I've been watching the historical commentaries, but they don't show at all how our lives were profoundly changed, even the decision not to go to church or the shift from Playtex girdles to pantyhose (or Kotex to Tampax) was a momentous revolution (accompanied by much guilt) that took an enormous readjustment and was ALWAYS connected with what was going on in the larger world--that is the brilliance of the show. This show is really helping me understand what my whole life has been about. I've learned so much from what you've all said--thank you! Best, RosaL PS--can some of the older women comment about this?

Question: Anybody ever hear an adult say "babies have fairies to help them, you know that"?

That was a new one on me.

Re GI Bill: Recall that Dick was a low rank, either a Private or Corporal, at the time Don Draper, a Captain or other commissioned officer, was killed in Korea. Don Draper likely had college on his CV before the Korean war, probably out of WWII. Dick Whitman, based on his background, was probably drafted without college, but when he assumed Don's identity, with Anna's explicit help, he probably inherited Don's entire resume along with the dog tags, the rank and the discharge.

@dondraperewq: Thanks. That makes perfect sense.

Mark my Word... it is Not Dr. G (Joan's hubby)... his stature (head, shoulders, chest, back, torso, arms, hand) is smaller and his hair is much thiner lighter (strawberry blonde).

Yes, zab...Dr. A-Hole must go....on another thread I detailed his getting mowed over (yes, I used those words....and no, I hadn't seen tonight's episode yet) by a garbage truck....a nice, neat accident....then we can have lovely widowed Joan to look at....maybe Saint John Powell can comfort her....sounds good to me!

I thought Don was going to end up making a four legged beast with Joan. But I could tell Don got cut by his zipper when she kissed him. I thought this episode was fantastic, and I really have to hand it to the writers. I laughed so hard the last 2 weeks. Office pranks, and Roger Sterlings comment about the foot in the door thing. Joan's funny comment to Don in the waiting room, almost got her and Don caught laughing by the 3 uptight Brits. I really love this show. They gotta keep this stuff coming. But I never would have guessed what the title was getting at. "Guy walks into an Advertizing Agency", and when Dork got his foot cut off, I laughed because took it as a punch line of sorts. "Gets his foot cut off by a lawn mower" LMAO

"Somewhere in this business, this has happened before." Roger's Dad = Guy.

One of my favorite lines was Roger: "They're punishing me for making my job look easy." More on the theme of self-deception. Roger thinks he actually works! But he didn't fool Guy McKendrick, who thoroughly studied everyone in the firm, but "overlooked" Roger on the org chart. Roger never really did anything, but now it's official! Roger's antics with Jane have come back to bite him in the ass for sure. As Don said, people think he's a fool. Moral of the story: the personal is the political.

Don is not sexually interested in Joan. Don is essentially egalitarian, and he was simply expressing professional admiration. She was always discreet and professional, and for the period when she worked Don's desk, it was the first time any real work was accomplished since Peggy was there. Whoever thinks Don wishes he married Joan really doesn't understand these characters.

I didn't much care for Connie's elderly secretary. I think Joan would be great in the Hilton head office, and Connie could be Don's major new client for the foreseeable future, with plenty of interaction with Joan. If Don snags the Hilton account, he could write his own ticket to open his own shop. Will he put Peggy on the Hilton account?

Rosal: I'm a lot younger than you (1960) but I remember even at the tender age of 8, the MLK Jr. and Bobby Kennedy assassinations in '68, as well as the violence and body counts from Viet Nam every night on the news. I thought of 1968 as the worst year ever 'til well into my 20s. I remember a sadness in '68 that seamed to hang over everything that couldn't be shaken. This pall continued to hang over everything right up thru the Kent State shootings in '70. I don't know what it was like to be an adult and go thru it, I do remember the impressions I got from the adults around me. 09/11/01 was the same feeling, but all at once, all on the same day.

patsycline had a the best summary of this episode

Roger Sterling's 'foot in the door' comment was hilarious - that actor John Slattery has the best lines! He seems like a bit of a jerk, but in the last several episodes, including this one, his vulnerability is revealed. He is one of those impulsive types who can delight or offend in one move, but he is actually quite needy for affection and acceptance.

Notice how he describes how his former wife, Mona became judgmental. Don disapproved of him and he was hurt. Also, the stories about his father reinforce this.

The best part of this show is how we, the audience, get an inside look at the characters alongside their public persona.

Don probably wishes he was married to Rachel Mencken.

I watched again and I am pretty sure this was the first reference made in the series that Roger's father died a sudden/tragic death. That may explain why be Roger was made the replacement partner at such a young age, - to give the appearance of stability, just as Bert made Don partner the minute Roger had his heart attack.

@blueknife: The Dork's name is GUY!!!!! Only MW would write that line!

Maybe that is Joan's doctor lying on the floor next episode....maybe he will be passed out drunk, wake up, stagger out into the street (thinking it's morning and he's heading for work) and fall into the path of a big truck of some kind (garbage would be perfect, but I'll take any kind)...whatever does the trick will be fine with me.

I'm ready for Joanie to get a break for once...and I hope SC asks her to come back so she doesn't have to try to think of a way to have to ask for her job back....

I agree with zerelda who posted a few days ago that it would be wonderful for Joan and Saint John Powell to get together. Time for Joanie to get with someone who appreciates her and knows the prize he has.

Thanks Dee, I did miss it.
@'63 Chevy, You can't top that ever! There should be a prize. Conrad Hilton, indeed.

Yes, Joan called Mr. Draper "Don"?

Why did Coop apologize to Don?

Have we ever seen Don drink a beer before?

Did Roger & Don make up? Are they friends again?

What was that crack about Burl Ives? (Mr. Have a Holly Jolly Christmas" - always my most unfavorite Christmas song. Watched twice, still don't get it.

Tender moment: When Don told Sally "We don't know who he is yet." hmmmm You never know WHO you may end up to be.

Roger's rambling rationalization for divorcing Mona (she got 'judgmental') is BS. He is using that twisted make-believe to project onto Don what Roger sees as Don's 'problem' with Roger. He thinks Don is judging him because of Jane and the divorce. Don doesn't really care about his morals, he cares about the man's judgment. Don smartly doesn't want to fully explain that reasoning, and just suggests they drop the subject.

Recall in Season 1 that Roger complained about spending his last 20 years on 'shore leave.' Roger was always unhappy with Mona, because he is always unhappy; it wasn't that all of a sudden she got judgmental.

dondraperesque: I said Don wishes he'd married A Joan instead of A Betty. Meaning character. Imagine a bright, fully capable life-mate that isn't just eye candy, but can actually perform on the home front. Not just cook and clean, but keep an entire family organized and healthy in mind and body. Imagine the difference in having a wife capable of nurturing the children and preventing all those instances where Don has to do both Mom's role, and Dad's role. My point is that soon Don will realize the strain involved in doing both her job and his job and he will realize that there's something missing in the marriage, and what's missing is a wife.

@Deep Dish: Don drank beer all day and got drunk in S2 while he was putting the play equipment together for the kids.

@Deep Dish: Roger thought Don's voice sounded like Burl Ives when the barber was using the hand vibrators to massage Don's shoulders.

Racy:

glad to see I wasn't the only one with the website problems.

ok, SO, let's talk validation.

You like the male point of view. I gave it regarding the Joan/Don thing in my post way above. It's less about the kiss and more about the way she looks at him beforehand, and the tender yet playful wiping of the lipstick off .That right there both will make even the most stallwart of us break down and....smile. But just for a second of course. I think because of media sometimes women are told the wrong things but sometimes beneath the surface, simple heartfelt attention is a great aphrodisiac for us.

Could anyone read what Don Draper wrote on that piece of paper when the Brits were outlining the new office reorganization?

Check out the sneak peak at next week's episode "Seven Twenty Three". Don schools the decorator!

So, is it 7:23, room 723 or 7/23/63? My guess is, its the date. A quick google search reveals 2 Raymond Mawby speeches that day. What else does the date signify?

Maybe hotel room # 723, where Greg offs himself.
The room is clearly a hotel room and that body is too stocky to be Don. The hair on the back of one's head is usually darker than the top and front.
I'm not saying that Dr. Harris gets his tips frosted, but I can picture Joan doing that for him as she sits on the edge of the bed, him with a towel around his neck on the floor with a mirror. Anything to win that promotion...

Wow! What an episode!!

Don MUST be from western PA; he told Sally to "pick up your room" at least he didn't say to RED it up.

Great zingers tonight: "You wake up in the morning feeling on top of the world and then some secretary runs over you with a lawn mower".

"The British are coming!"

And Betty's maternal words of wisdom:"Go bang your head against the wall."

The ad business as prostitution:"We took their money now we have to do what they say."

And so many zingers from Roger I can't remember them all, but about how the Brit lost his foot "almost as soon as he got it in the door"- priceless!!

Dr. Pepper was definitely NOT sold in the northeast in 1963. I was 10 years old in 1963, and knew every soda there was back then (including the putrid Patio Diet Cola; my Mom tried it and went back to her usual "No-Cal" Cola).

I discovered Dr. Pepper at the Texas Pavilion of the 1964-65 New York World's Fair in 1964 and fell in love with it. I began a futile quest (at age 11) to find Dr. Pepper, but it was completely unavailable in the NYC area. My parents remembered it when they were kids, but when WWII sugar rations went into effect, Dr. Pepper was discontinued in the Northeast. But a couple of years later driving to Florida, we discovered Dr. Pepper in North Carolina and points South. And of course it was always big in its home state of Texas and points West. But it was unavailable in the Northeast.

Then in 1970, with much fanfare, commercials started airing announcing that "DR. PEPPER IS CONING TO NEW YORK MAY 18TH!" And sure enough it did. On may 18, 1970, Dr. Pepper was sold in New york for the first time since before WWII (save for the Texas Pavilion at the 64-65 Worlds' Fair).

All by way of saying that Dr. Pepper was unavailable for sale, in vending machines or otherwise in NYC on July 3, 1963. Maybe in LA, but not here.

Do people from western PA pronounce the word 'on' as 'awn', just as Don did tonight as well as in on the fire escape to Sal.
"come awn"

@Nokomis.FL "Go bang your head against the wall." I roared because I remember my mother telling both my brother and me to, "Go play in traffic, better yet, go play on the L.I.E. (Long Island Expressway)" when we told her we were bored.

We didn't tell her we were bored very often! ;-D

howdy all sorry for getting here so late lots of good observations
@happyznap I sure hope it is Greg. didn't think of it till you mentioned it.
@Greg the site was down for over a day, longer or shorter for some posters. I actually got some things done so I am thankful. Sort of a precursor to the episode, something bad leading to something good.
Deep Dish quit teasing me Did you ever slip or fall in the library. You know when you were in the Non-Friction section sorry. Also Miss Dish, didn't Don drink a beer on Anna's porch.

I would have loved to have been in that pitch meeting for this episode. "So this guy walks into the office and gets his foot chopped off by a John Deere lawnmower driven by that cooky Lois." Bravo. Loved it.

No brains in the fingers, eh? Not the only place that lacks brains. Our Joanie deserves better.

Pete catching Peggy. Swoon.

@basid37 I agree 100% on your Dr. Pepper info. I liked the 10cent price though.
I am glad now that I tested out as Joan twice on the "which mad men are you " test. She was the only one to keep her wits. To anyone who wondered if Lois would be fired? Come on, they fired the victim. She is so gone. Did we get an answer on who's office she wrecked. Those hand massagers at the barber were always a source of wonder for me growing up. I know it cost 50 cents but I never had the money for it.

@NeverNotTasty: I totally noticed Hooker’s disheveled look at the accident scene – wonder where he was??? Gotta love those swingin’ office parties!
And I loved when Don rushes into the hospital waiting room and exclaims, “Joan, my God” to which Joan replies, “I know, it’s ruined” It seemed as though she thought he was upset about her dress!
Overall, I really liked the many sides of Joan we saw tonight – taking charge at the office (planning for the unexpected visit) and being catty with Hooker, consoling her husband, crying at farewell toast, immediately jumping in to perform first aid, joking with “Don” as a peer, sharing a sentimental moment with a friend…
I’m not at all worrying about the future storylines for Joan’s character…but as for the Dr. Greg….
Also, I wonder what Peggy was going to tell Joan at the party?

Wow, sure wish I'd had some warning about that foot scene. Pretty horrible.

One of the Brits sounded like and had the mannerisms of the late great James Mason.

Don and Joan sitting in the waiting room - they are equals. They know it. It doesn't need to be said. Both in dead-end marriages with psycho-spouses.

The last scene with Don, Sally and baby Gene was very touching.

The comments about Betty to Bobby Re: go hit your head..
my mother used to threaten us with: ripping our arm off and hitting us with the bloody stump! Just how they talked those days.

You young'ens still have no idea of a woman's place in the business world in the 1960's. ONLY BEHIND A TYPEWRITER...I am amazed at Peggy with only secretarial training is where she is. But when I entered the business world in early 70's the only women were BattleAxes who were in upper jobs. One reason women started moving up (only to hit the glass ceilings) was because the WWII men sent their daughters to college only to see them employed as secretaries. They did not want to work for a woman boss but by-God after paying for his daughter to go to a 4 yr college she was going to work at something more than just the Steno-Pool after graduation. That and the Court rulings in the mid-70's.

Also...these Brit's and the idea that he doesn't have a foot, so he can't play golf, and can now longer do his job. What about all the WWII Disabled Vets in Britain? Just made me wonder...my Dad almost lost a foot in Battle of the Bulge walks with limp and he moved up in his company...just wondering....

I guess I am in the minority on this site, but I am glad Lane Pryce got a reprieve. Loved the Tom Sawyer reference. Those Brit Bosses were as heartless as anyone I've seen in a while.They made Perry and Dick from in Cold Blood look like humanitarians. Maybe it is just because I liked the actors father so much, but I hope he stays around. Come on Bombay,and with a gag gift. such pompous jerks. Lane is in a tough position and has done his job well. He has had direct orders from his superiors that he had to implement. He is a Stranger In A Strange Land forced to bring about unpopular change. I felt he did it with sensitivity. If he had been sent to Bombay, I only hope little Gunga Din would have been sent with him. I thought you needed two women for a cat fight, but Mr Hooker filled in admirably vs Joan. Deliberately spilling the beans on Joans "surprise "party. Calling the women plain. I love how Joan defended her girls by attacking his Prime Minister/Secretary of war. Ah Joan once again you appear to be one of two people on this show with a "set"

Last comment of the night for me. Did the doll being in Sally's room scare her into shrieking or was it the Gene Ghost nightmare. For a second I thought we were in a chucky movie. Does anyone recall some scary puppet movies from the past. One with Anthony Hopkins or Ann Margaret, or an old Twilight Zone?

Hey, y'all! Just found out that you're here! So not only am I a first time poster, I'm a first time finder. And you can bet I'll be back!

(Got so excited about finding y'all that I originally posted this on an incorrect thread. Apologies!)

Comments:
@bluegirl on September 20, 2009 7:27 PM

Speaking of fashions, I was born in 1947 so in the early '60s I was paying attention to at least some of the fashions. By '63 NO one was wearing a corset ... except maybe my grandmother. Most women wore girdles -- to help "shape" themselves and to hold up stockings (which still had seams). We need to see if any of the women have seams in their stockings ... If they didn't wear a girdle you would have to wear a garter belt to hold up your stockings. (I grew up in NC; when I was in jr. hi we had a girl move down from "up Nawth" and she called them "nylons.")

One of the main reasons women gave up wearing girdles and garter belts was the advent of pantyhose! Woo-hoo! And, no, one-size-fits-all never did.

I applied for my first office job in 1968. I wore white gloves to the interview. Yes, I got the job. No, I don't think I ever wore the gloves again.

My main reason for searching for a place to comment was to tell someone in continuity on the show to remove the cap from Baby Gene! The cotton-knit caps on newborns did not happen until much more recently! And show Baby Gene sleeping on his stomach! Not until much more recently have doctors recommended that babies sleep on their backs!

My two older sons were born in 1966 and 1968. (If you've done the math, yes, I was a child bride. But not to my cousin!) Neither son was "issued" a cap in the hospital, nor was it part of their layettes. It just did not happen!

Like y'all I love the show! Since I was a copywriter in regional ad agencies in the '70s I find the show especially appealing. Anyone remember Herb Tarlick from the old "WKRP in Cincinnati"? He doesn't seem to be represented on Mad Men and that type of guy was prevalent in all the agencies I worked at (NC, VA, AR).

Now that I know y'all are here, I'll be back.

Cheers!

Breaking Bad fan here,but recently started watching Mad Men when BB started running repeats 4weeks ago.
Love this show! Tonight's episode was super good. You couldn't of called it.
My reaction to the John Deere scene...well I was shocked. You would have thought that I was actually there in the moment. I didn't faint, but I think I screamed. I mean I knew she was gonna wreck that thing ,but never saw some one's foot being mutilated.That was great.
I love the era of the show and how the writing and the look is so authentic. I want Don's desk lamps!
hobocode mentioned if Sally was scared of a ghost or the doll. Well you noticed that the dog was in the room too. You know they say that small children and animals are very sensitive to ghosts or spirits.That is ......if you believe.

"We forgot about the holiday." Yeah, right!

Sure did love Joanie putting Hooker in his place!

This was quite an episode and I was on the edge of my seat by the time Sally screamed - toward the end there was such an aura of dread, of things going horribly wrong. Good thing there were those great bon mots going on as well.

I do think we'll be seeing the end of the bad doctor, and I agree that was a hotel room in the scene, but the guy's hair was way too dark and he sure looked like Don to me. :(

Hi everyone. Great comments. I think Conrad Hilton expected Don to want more than his account. Such as setting Don up in his own agency? On the subject of Joan calling Don by his first name instead of Mr. Draper at the hospital, remember she is, at that moment, no longer employed at Sterling Cooper. So it would have been appropriate to call him that. Joan is always appropriate. And she's not going anywhere. For sure.
See you next week.

s2inla - I very familiar with the phrase "Go play in the traffic." "Is go bang your head against a wall" a different version of the same phrase?

madcap - The comments about Betty to Bobby Re: go hit your head..
my mother used to threaten us with: ripping our arm off and hitting us with the bloody stump! Just how they talked those days.

Sounds like your mother spent some time as a Marine drill instructor.

I don't think that the man on the floor in next week's episode
is Don. Maybe it's Sal.
The final scene of Don, Sally, and the baby was a sweet way to wrap up the episode.

More Joan. Dr. Hubby needs to go.

More kooky Lois, poor girl may be finished for good now.

please don't let Joan go.

I think someone a SC is going to realize they need Joan. When her hubby told her to get a new job, I thought well..maybe she will, in Television Adv. dept at SC with Harry. Maybe he will need her again for help and she'll demand a job this time.

Most people my sisters friends, all had the bubbe-cut Barbie. I think it was the most prevelant and my mom loved Jackie Kennedy, I remember Jackie Kennedy and the bubble-cut Barbie were popular around our house, even though I was only maybe 3 yrd old.

Joan and Don, mutual respect there. Joan kept a lot of secrets, was excellent at her job. She and Don understood each other. They were simply office-work friends. I remember someone's wife once said, You two would make a beautiful couple, they simply both smiled, like they liked each other too much for that .

I hope it's Dr.on the floor. He needs to go, he's cramping Joan's style.
but remember Don has HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE.

Sigh. Yet more Betty-bashing this week. I resist it because to me both the character as written and the portrayal are spot-on, realistic and at least somewhat sympathetic. In MM time, women's liberation is in the future. Betty is in a life that has its advantages, but also severe and unpleasant constraints. Isn't it kind of sad that the first thing she is allowed to dream about when teased with the possibility of a move to London isn't anything to do with culture or adventure but "I could get a pram, and a real nanny?"

Women today who are to a much greater extent advised as they grow up that they can choose their own lives, careers etc. finding Betty's maternalism forced and imperfect--well, yeah. It's both. The housecat didn't have other choices. She isn't allowed out. No, she's not "Mother of the Year," but she's just not that terrible, either.

I find myself wishing more people could appreciate the character in her time and place without imposing so much modern moral judgment. I'm wondering if the same people are imposing equally modern harsh moral judgments on the men at the agency for their cynicism there--their drinking, their womanizing, their back-biting competition. After all, those are imperfect and often maladaptive behaviors too. I'm thinking not, or at least the tenor of those comments never seem as severe as those against Betty.

I interpreted her "Go bang your head against the wall" comment in this episode as a refreshing bit of sarcasm. Even 1960's kids would have understood it. Kids have always been smarter than cultural works sometimes give them credit for. Even in the days of Father Knows Best, they were never merely pathetically earnest (except on network TV). (Nor, thank God, are they as smarmy and superior as network TV kids in the later decades).

Sarcasm rules the day at Sterling Cooper; can't a mother also have some wit? And "only boring people are bored." Not maybe the kindest comment--but true. It's not Betty's responsibility to ensure that her 7 year old son is constantly entertained, is it? Unless we live in some kind of weird 2009 world in which proper suburban parenting requires neurotically carting your kids around from dance or piano lessons to martial arts to day camps...oh, right.

The lenses we peer through! If Betty seems so terrible to you, please try this thought experiment: imagine that everything's she's doing is much closer to right--good parenting. Then peer back through that other side and discover if your modern inflated and unrealistic notions about proper motherhood might bear a wee bit of revision.

I read a NY Times article earlier this week that tracks how average adult women--in particular those who have children--have become much less happy over the years. That's rooted in these ridiculous expectations of perfection. Here's hoping Mad Men as a cultural touchstone can help prompt a reconsideration of all that.

GUY WALKS INTO AN ADVERTISING AGENCY.....

........BUT HE DOESN' T WALK OUT

i don't expect blood and gore on mad men hope it's not a trend i didn't sleep well

The British chose Independence Day week to remind the agency that they were under their thumb now? I love the irony and I love the writing in this show.

Joan's relationship with her husband is starting to reveal itself. He is like a child and full of insecurity. I don't think she can respect him.

goes to show, the fourth has always been bad luck for the english

that guy's career is over? i know someone who's missing a foot and you can't tell. were prosthetics that poor in the 60's that he'll never walk again?

if i was responsible for the amputation of a foot at work i wouldn't want to show my face there even if they didn't fire me.

by the by, who's secretary is she this season? paul's? any mention yet as to who's office she drop into?

i know there's a lot of great women out there. but joan seems too good to be true.

Good one JLH, Guy walks into and advertising agency and leaves on a stretcher. What happened to Joan's bullet bras, she looks much bigger and rounder, is she pregnant?

I'd like to see Joan invited back, but she takes the opportunity to ask for the job she was so good at in the TV department.

"Guy walks into an ad agency and gets Joan Holloway Harris to realize she'd be a great field medic."

And what a coincidence - Vietnam was mentioned in the episode, as was "a tragedy with a happy ending - my favorite kind".

Go for it, Joan! You're way too smart to stay home making babies with that untalented jerk-off.

as for the doll (if someone else has not mention)
comics were normal to use for wrapping paper, and there were dark haired barbies, but my initial reaction was that it was MIDGE!. barbie's best friend, as she had dark hair and same facial structure.
yes, too many people on here are seeing thru contemporary eyes, so thx to posters who put the everyday early 60's into perspective. this is not the x-files where every little thing is a foreshadowing or clue/omen.

alas, i was looking and appears i still will be looking for a good board to discuss madmen. too many of you have turned this into a personal chat that has nothing to do with really discussing the show. couldn't you keep that to personal emails?

Sorry if someon has alreayd posited this: I didn't think the man on the floor in next week's preview was Don..thouhght it looked more like Joan's husband. He will kill himself, and SC, taking pity, will re-hire her, but in a higher position, pissing MoneyPenny off no end! Loved how Don was once he realized he would have to report to someone other than Cooper/Sterling.

@zabadu - thanks for the clarification on the Barbie.

Fabulous post joneiric! I'm always wishing people would appreciate this show for it's time period. You can't apply 2009 thoughts and ideals to MM. Children were to be "seen not heard" in that time.

Regarding the earlier question of Dick going to college... I'm pretty sure he didn't. I remember Don telling Dick before he was killed about his college education, I just don't remember where he said he went. I always assumed that Dick just took her DD's full credentials.

Great eppy last night!

I think the real Don was in engineering before the war. Also, since he was an officer he probably would have a degree that Dick could use to get his foot in the door somewhere (no pun intended).

Gotta love Sterling nonchalantly commenting "Jesus, looks like Iwo Jima out there..."

Is there any place to see the creative work SC does? I heard at the premier they were projecting huge images of it on a building in NYC.

@ Peaches of 8: I think your right, it could be Joan's husband or (did they show the his feet)? Maybe its the guy who had his foot amputated (sorry can't remember names right now). I think MW wants the audience to think that it's Don but no chance.......great observation!

@hobocode52 - that ventriloquist movie with Anthony Hopkins and Ann-Margret was "Magic", it was creepy. To this day, a friend of mine is deathly afraid of those dummies!
@joneiric - great analysis! You are right, we are viewing MM through a different lens, with hindsight and a 21st century perspective. As with all things MM, it requires one to make a conscious effort to remain "in the time capsule" and remember that the self-help era was a long way off. Although I grew up in the "Me Generation" (born in '62), my parents were still products of the 40's & 50's - they and their contemporaries parented much like the MM parents. One of the most authentic recent scenes to me was Don yelling "cut it out!" to the kids jumping on the bed. I remember my dad, grandpa, and uncles stomping down the hall and yelling even worse threats when we kids would "act up" and disturb their TV show!

"I'm sorry, I'm really, really sorry. It'll never happen again. Please don't send me...
"I'm sorry too, Lois. But it's back to the telephone switchboard for you."

Re: the amputated (or otherwise dismembered) foot -
Maybe he'll be sent to the hospital where Dr. Harris is a surgical resident... Owww!!!

Guy wouldn't be fired but obviously he'd be out for weeks at a minimum which would throw PP&L's plans totally off schedule. And now, in view of Don's success... It's back to London for you, lad.

Morning Maddicts!!
I love Mad Men Mondays..so much to think about!

I want Joan to battle Mr. Hooker with her bosom!

Joan will be needed in the TV department, as Harry is the only one who got promoted and Joan already has experience there.

I really felt for Joan when she burst into tears during Guy's toast...have we ever seen her loose her cool before???

@RosaL - I love your insight into the female revolutions of your time..this sight is a great way for some of us in the GenX generation to learn more about how the woman's path was laid up to present day.

@FreddyR- Good point about Roger's father, I always wondered why Roger had some arrested development, but having his father die early meant he had to grow up too soon for SC, perhaps that explains all his silly behavior?

@Greg- "simple heartfelt attention" Joan is good at it too isn't she? How she handled her husband's drunken failure homecoming was tender smooth sailing...

@JulieLondon- I want to go back and see what Don was drawing during the meeting too...it seemed like it was maybe a flag, and then didn't he show it to Lane for a laugh or something??

@joneric- I LOVE BETTY! I'm not afraid to say it! She uses some tough love, and is emotionally out of touch with herself (and therefore her husband and children) but these flaws make her HUMAN.
Why is she held to such a high standard by so many MM viewers?
Today's "Sanctamommys" are no better...promoting perfection in motherhood only sets everyone up for inevitable failure.

Best line of the night goes to, as usual, Roger Sterling: "I'm sure there's some other office where this (the lawn mower running over a person's foot) has happened."

Honorable mention, me: "Roger, we took their money now we have have to do what they say."

Bert Cooper
Wondering if painted Japanese screens might be better than offices

Watching Joan take control of the accident scene at Sterling made me wish for a dream sequence of her childhood -- little girl Joanie, playing with both dolls and slingshots, capable and quick at whatever took her interest. Then adolescent Joanie, playing and singing, developing her skills at keeping attention directed towards her. Then, a teenage Joan, her physical attributes suddenly becoming the focus from everyone around her, and her realizing that this, this was the way to get what she wanted.
The sad part is that all these years later, after choosing her path so very deliberately, she finds herself not triumphant, but stuck.
My fondest wish for a future scene is just one thrilling sexual encounter between Don and Joan.....they're both so skilled, so knowledgeable...and I think Joan needs to have the full Don Draper treatment just once.

Will Lois win a Darwin award for her latest lawn mowing incident.

Don

Something on another MM site got me thinking...

The mower scene was a great American metaphor: reclaiming the 4th of July holiday for SC.

I think Lois and Mitch will probably get the axe. Pete Campbell will become sole head of accounts.

Never thought about the mower scene like that. Lois really appeared frightening in that scene.

Did anyone catch the comment in the meeting about "Head of Accounts being shared by Mr. Cosgrove and Mr. Campbell... for now"? And Pete's reaction to that? Pete better get on the ball if he wants to keep that position.

Will Joan get the job in the tv dept since he got a promotion? what other point to that promotion?
Maybe Betty gets into trouble with social workers about the kids and calls that politician she flirted with at the party? Maybe Betty dies? (Remember "Bye Bye Birdie?") or takes off with the
politician and baby Gene- leaving Don with the other kids-that why the good daddy scenes? maybe the teacher will help him? You know Con Hilton will help Don get his own agency. He will take Joan and Peggy. Remember: this is tv and they DO kill off stars of shows-ask soap opera fans.
I am Bobby's age, and the JFK killing changed America forever-and the Beatles changed the culture- I do have nostalgia for those days--we who were kids then thought our world would be like our parents, instead we got War, hippies,drugs,sex,etc
Now it seems if young people decide to follow an alternative lifestyle,it is a choice--then it was this new world we were thrown into-many of us kept our heads and parents values-many of us joined into changing society. Younger people can not imagine that just using tampons instead of pads meant you were a bad girl, that wearing pastel shirts instead of white was a big deal for men, .In '67 we were excited about our first bra- a few yrs later we watched women burning them. Some of us may have had better lives if so much had not changed, yet many of us would not. But again, it became a different cynical world due to JFK death,VietNam,
and for many Catholics,the way Vatican II changed the Church...

@Deep Dish: As for what's to become of Joan, think about this: Remember Harry's the ONLY one who got any kind of definitive promotion. He may have the need to expand his TV department. Joan - a perfect fit.

@PattyO: Oh dear, as soon as I read your comment about Matt Weiner's remarks "first the election... blah, blah" I thought to myself "uh-oh now here will come Lucky Strike and a couple others I'm surprised haven't shown yet, to beat you down, because don't you know Patty, nobody's allowed to have a political opinion here unless it agrees with the libs on this forum who believe that only liberal dems watch MadMen, so it's OK to gush ad nauseum about the President and this administration's policies, but as soon as anyone disagrees, we're evil and racist.

@JIH: Lois used to be on the switchboard, but has recently become Paul's secretary.

This is the first episode this season where I really feel like the old Dan might finally be back! He was so sappy and weak last season. Please, Don, ditch Betty and go back to having affairs. I wish the writers would bring back Menkin (?spelling. the woman from the department store). I say she is still Don's real love.

NeverNotTasty commented on Pete catching Peggy fainting... I agree, that he showed total concern, not contempt, and there is so much more to their story. I think that in the meeting naming Guy as COO, Don’s boss and essentially cutting Roger out, also showed a slight edge to Ken on the Head of Accounts side…or was I picking up on something that wasn’t there? I think the edge definitely goes to Pete now. Lois gets fired, Ken gets demoted, Joan, following the suicide of her husband, comes back to work for Harry in media. Don, okay we are all now really screaming for it, contemplates another affair, flashing back to Midge and Rachel and trying to figure out how to make his new affair work a little better. He feels no guilt because he is a good father and his wife is like a beautiful piece of china-wonderful to look at and hardly ever used! They have to keep Roger, as rapier wit is a necessity on the show, but now maybe he has to report to Don. I would love that dynamic.

Well I have to say this so called President position at the SC office certainly doesn't have much longevity so far.

Duck shoots himself in the foot day one - gone
Lane - does too good of a job and gets shipped to Bombay ( now delayed)
Guy - looses his foot the day he gets it in the door.

Oh and let's not forget Head of Accounts
Duck gone
Bert Peterson gone
Pete or Ken - one will be gone?

Good morning fellow Maddicts! As I write this post I am watching our Mad Men on Oprah. January and Jon look gorgeous, of course!

I am still trying to digest the lawn mower scene--wow!

@Hobocode52: Your old friend the Wichita lineman here. Great remarks about Pryce and how well he has comported himself at SC. I have always liked him, and I just felt such sympathy for him this episode. Agreed--his British bosses were horrible: cold, callous, and snobby. All that Pryce is not.

@joneiric: I appreciate your comments about viewing Betty with the right historical perspective. Absolutely. I, too, wondered about the prosthetic for Guy. I loved the line his bosses gave Don in the hospital for why he will never work: "The doctors say he will never golf again." At least we know their priorities.

@NeverNotTasty: Great analysis of Don's competition being, literally, mowed down! I wonder if that whole scene, complete with a John Deere no less, is supposed to recall Don's humble, agrarian past.

The emphasis on light in this episode was compelling--Don staring at the ceiling light fixture, Sally needing a nightlight. Our characters have moved from fog to light, but have they received any illumination?

Lastly, it is interesting that both Joan and Roger find their lives spiraling downward at the same time. Will this serve as a basis for their reconciliation in the future? And does he even deserve her at this point?

Walt Whitman 1
William Shakespeare 0

Having been in sales for quite a while, I really was struck by the theme of this episode that sales is more about building relationships and solving problems rather than being a superficial "circus".

Guy, the new Brit comes in with his suave, handsome, sophisticated style and fast talk.....being able to "take a penny away from a Scotsman"......a true dynamic account man.......and he ends up getting run over by an American lawn mower......nothing runs like a Deere :) As it turns out, his only "real" ability was that he could play golf. How true!

Don on the other hand, has a simple one on one conversation with a stranger in a bar and he turns out to be Conrad Hilton. Their conversation is short, blunt and to the point....getting the job done and solving problems. Conrad Hilton could have been, Henry Ford, Thomas Edison or Bill Gates.
I think the old Brit who was going to be sent to India is learning by reading Huckleberry Finn.

Thie episode was a good salute I feel to Monty Python :)

I have a question about shaving.

After Betty noticed Don's smooth face, Don explained that the boss had sent him to get a shave because of the British visitors arriving the next morning.

Are professional straight-razor jobs so close that one could skip shaving the following morning?

Best line: "I'm writing copy."

Wow! I finally got to the end.

I think everyone has pretty much covered everything. Great episode!

I think the tender baby moments with Gene last night are leading up to a baby crisis, injury, illness, or death. I know I've said this before. I just can't get rid of the feeling.
Also, Sally is just too freaked out about the baby, almost like she is sensing disaster. Kids often have ESP.

I posted under another thread about Joan and Dr. Evil. They have to get rid of him!

Poor Lois! Maybe she'll find a career in paper fashion, which are coming later in the decade...she did photocopy her scarf last week!

I think one of the only other bad things that could happen at SC would be that we find out they have the GM Corvair account! Ralph Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed" came out in 1963.

Huge congrats to Mad Men on winning best drama again!!!
The actors and actresses looked great!
Did anyone else think January Jones dress kind of looked like the Chrysler building?

Well, golf is a very important part of many businesses. Probably many more deals get struck by men on the golf course than in executive offices. Still, I thought the Brits were awfully quick to throw Guy under the bus after the accident. I agreed with Don: I didn't understand why this sharp, highly educated man could not still do the job even if maybe he had to be in a wheelchair. But then, I don't remember much about the attitudes at that time toward handicapped/disabled people in the workplace.Don't most of the S.C. clients come to S.C. offices for their discussions and conferences? An exception would be a Conrad Hilton and then of course Don would go to him, not the other way around.

What a great episode last night! I remember thinking it was kind of dangerous when Ken drove the lawn tractor into the office, but I didn't dream that there would be human injury. I loved how Joan took charge and kept her cool after the accident. I know that she'll be back at Sterling Cooper, but I'm not sure how it's going to happen. With Lane now reinstated in the office, Money Penny is likely to continue on to run the office, unless he's the one to take the fall for the accident? Was anyone else surprised when the Brits took off their shoes when entering Cooper's office. I know why the Sterling Cooper folk do it, but now that he reports to them there's no real need for them to indulge his whims. The meeting with Conrad Hilton couldn't have come at a better time for Don. I was also impressed with how he handled himself. Don's confidence in himself really showed; most people would not have stood up to Hilton like Don did. It certainly is in Don't best interests to give Hilton his freebie. The Hilton Company went public in 1964 - maybe Don does neet to dream bigger!

My apologies in advance if this has already been discussed, but I couldn't find it in the comments I read.

Re: the mower. The blades did not engage on a riding mower until you put the lever (or whatever) in that position. At first just the engine would start, but not the blades, and you could still get from Point A to Point B. You had to be able to ride it to your starting point and then you would turn on the blades. Now maybe someone who was an idiot and/or panicked might move the lever to the wrong position, I don't know.

It would seem pretty obvious (from the wind whipping around) that the blades were on with a big baby like that.

Then again, in those days maybe the riding mowers weren't that sophisticated (and they were improved only after some people had their feet cut off).

Comments?

Just figured out the significance of "Gene": he seems to have exactly replicated himself in his grandson, a feat of genetic manipulation. Did they have cloning then?

this is not a joke. I have never seen Oprah does anyone know the time and network she is on in the ny tri state area
@Hi WitchiTA speaking of electricians, It brought back fond memories when Don said to Sally(I am not Thomas Edison). My Grandfather used to go crazy about leaving a light on in a room even for 5 minutes if no one was in it. He would go nuts if he saw how I live today. plus all the devices drawing power while charging.

Did anyone notice that after the meeting with the big british brass, the only guy who did not understand what happenned was the guy who got the promotion. Hilarious. Accurate too. Weiner nailed the buisness worlds corporate thinking beautifully there. Whatever you think of Harry, nice guy,or jerk, it would be pretty hard to not succeed in that position at that time.

I have to say that one of the primary reasons that I tune in each week is the meticulous attention that is paid to historical accuracy (vis a vis set design).

The Dr. Pepper issue irked me as well. I was an exec with Pepsi for 10 years in Tx in the 90's -- as well, I was born and raised in NY in the 60's. Dr. Pepper did not have any real market presence in the Northeast in 1963 at all. The only corporately branded vending machines that you would ever see at that time, was Brand Coke and Pepsi. Dr. Pepper was almost exclusively a southern drink and did not capture any market share in the Northeast until the 1970's.

For shame on the baby cap as well. This was not a part of the general baby paraphernalia back then either.

I have to say that I am quite surprised that these issues would escape the discerning eye of MW. The recent article in Vanity Fair spent an enormous amount of space detailing how painstaking their research was to ensure the historical accuracy of MM.

Oh, and. Does anyone get the Song for Woody end theme? This is the second time they've used Dylan (Don't Think Twice), but this time it really didn't make sense.

@hobo: Oprah is on Channel 7WABC 4pm

Hi Moe!
I thought the fumes from the John Deere would kill everyone at SC! I don't think there are any open windows in the office. I never saw the foot amputation coming!!

I think we have a writer just for Roger's lines this season. Last night's zingers were great! I think John Slattery was in the wrong category for the Emmy's, though. He should have been in the "Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy". Cheers.

@NCwriter great point about the mower, but not to much of a stretch by Weiner becsause Lois is both an idiot and panicked.
Someone mentioned a Mitch I am drawing a blank. please help
at first I thought, well Lois is gone no doubt. But on this sick delightfully twisted show, maybe she will get a bonus. she did inadvertently help a lot of people out. At the very least Lane should give her that awful Cobra in a Basket as a parting gift.

I fear the show is losing its focus. I understand that the punchy character establishment and development of the first season is hard to maintain over time, but they're really introducing more subplots than a 13 episode season can bear (we're already almost halfway through?!).

The whole "British Overlords" theme is, for me, the worst offender. Consider last night's episode: most of it was spent on plot twists and character introductions which all added up to exactly nothing as far as Sterling Cooper is concerned. No one new, no one left. Moreover, setting up an historically atypical "Us vs. Them" dynamic with Britain in the early 1960s (when the Brits were hardly buying up the world) distracts from the much more interesting issues of domestic culture and society that the series seems to be skirting. I mean, how many of us are expecting an obligatorily awkward one-scene kitchen confrontation between the Drapers and Carla after MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech, which is right around the corner? (Racism? Check!) I'm not saying they need to turn the show into "We Didn't Start The Fire"--I've VERY glad they haven't--but I think it's losing it's historical relevance and contemporary resonance in an increasingly petty maze of soap opera-y plot devices.

And what about the advertising industry itself? It was such a fascinating element of the first season--buying and selling as a metaphor for American culture and identity itself--but now it just seems like sexy set dressing.

I do admit I enjoyed the lawnmower scene, despite it being totally predictable and implausible.

Thank You Peaches

maybe I am a simpleton, no scratch that I am a simpleton, but regarding the baby cap:
True it was not in vogue in the sixties, but the baby they are using, is from the present.

@Hobocode: I loved that Harry was the only one who did not grasp the power shift. So fitting. He is a dolt in almost every way. When he told Peggy during the first meeting about Patio Cola that she was not the target consumer for the product because, as he says "You are not fat anymore"--so typical of him. And the look on Sal's face after that--priceless. The irony of course, as you point out, is that he will undoubtedly succeed because he was sharp--or lucky--enough to create the right niche at the right time.

@ NeverNotTasty: I, too, picked up on Pete catching Peggy, and you are right--it is not a look of distaste on his face. Those two are not finished yet.

Imagine the super-human child that Joan and Don would produce.

That baby, ewwww! It's motorized, for sure. Those gurgling sounds were unreal, like something from a '60s doll ad: "Bitsy can gurgle, Bitsy can coo/So many things baby does, Bitsy does too!". Also, when Betty came in at the end, the crying wasn't coming from the baby, but from somewhere else in the house.

How old is this kid anyway, and why does he have such a creepy name (not just his grandpa's, but "gene" as in heredity)? Do the writers do all this deliberately?

I've got to admit, as I sat there watching MM, I was thinking- okay this is not a riveting as usual-need a little more action. Well, as I was watching Joan, and thinking Roger would beg her to stay thus freeing her from begging for her job back( and I knew she wouldn't do that) the shit hit the fan with the John Deere mower.
Loved it, leave it to the writers at MM to grab us and make us sit up and take notice. Although it wasn't funny, you did have to smother a giggle or two.
But I miss the whole advertising part of the show. I,like others don't want this to turn into a soap opera( although, a pinch and a kiss here and there is very okay, as it leads to some tense and laughable scenes) I want to see the work in progress for the ads and products from the 60's. I love seeing commercials for products that I haven't thought of for years and the clothes and odds and ends that made up the life in the 60's. This part of the show was so fascinating- don't let it slip away.

Don was suprised that the brits all assumed the guy whos foot got cut off (cant remember his name.) That his career was over. Anybody heard of nationalized health care? In Britain (and soon to be USA if our dictator gets his way) Post-op care for a severed foot is so expensive (fighting infection, prosthesis, re-habilitation etc) That youre pretty much a goner. America has (had) the finest health care in the world and we see an amputated foot as a completely treatable situation and with proper care the young man would be "back on his feet" (sorry!) in no time. Plus it was the USA that first created the American with disabilities act which would prevent him from being fired for being an amputee if he could still perform his work duties. No such thing in Britain or any country where the government rations health care. So its not surprising at all that the brits assumed the young amputee would be shuttled to some dark, dank govt. run housing for the "cripple" and await a diagnosis of gangrene. (which would not be treated...too much of a strain on the governments health care budget.)
Hows that "Hope and Change" workin out for you?

Who was sitting on Ken Cosgrove's lap during the party?

Yet another striking contrast in the Peggy/Joan dichotomy: Joan rushes in after the mower mishap to take control of the situation, Peggy faints. Sorry Peggy, another reason you'll never be Joan no matter how hard you try!

I always liked the one the teachers gave us: “Bored? Find something to do….or I will give you something to do!”

From Bobby “ I’m bored”. I would always tell my kids “Go clean your room” when they said that. It always made them disappear! Haha . All Bobby and Sally were doing was touching base with Betty. Just needing assurance that she is there.
Joan said “ I just ate dinner for two.” to Greg. Could she have already gotten pregnant , being overly confident that Greg would get his promotion and she would be able to start a family.?
“ Somewhere this has happened before” referring to the John Deere accident. It probably did. What do you think?
“ Babies have fairies to help them.” I think maybe Sally is a little too old to believe in fairies but decided to let her mom go ahead with that fib. Sally does believe in ghosts though. Poor child. And babies often look like little old men…and he may look like Grandpa Gene. Upsetting to Sally.

PattyO: Don't listen to the Lucky Strike of the world. You're the one who is right. There's nothing wrong with, and I think everyone would agree with regardless of one's political aisle, that politics needs to stay in politics and not stray. Especially right now.

I was disappointed in MW because he had little time, and therefore should have instead thanked the people that make it possible, thanked the grunts who never get credit, maybe thanked the unpaid interns, and maybe thank us grunts who are few and far between but come together to give them an audiance, therefore employment.

The man came out as a committed leftie. And there was not one thread bashing him for that. I would hope the lefties of the board would appreciate the righties of the board for not dragging this thread or board into a political hell which would happen on a lot of boards if he gave a pro-right speech.

You're the one who is correct Patty. You simply said, can we not go there? And you were struck down for daring to not cheer along. (and people wonder where the Hitler/leftie references come from. You all just witnessed it right here. That's your answer) People need to think of that and about the Lucky Strike folks of the country right now. How dare you, Patty.

Normally I wouldn't have bothered to respond because I don't need 10 posts following that just tell me how stupid I am because I dared agree with Patty in wishing people could just resist going there. But watching Patty get the unnecessary beat-down, enough is enough already. This crap has to stop. She didn't say anything wrong. There was no need for that, Lucky.

Yes - Joan back in the Television department!! If they already filled her old position and want to keep her she could be Harry's secretary and maneuver upward..realizing she'll never meet someone as concerned about her well-being as she deserves...or did someone say she's pregnant? Maybe she'd push at the Glass Ceiling to give her child a better set of options.

misslilly,

I think the Brits were get ridding of Guy, because his position demanded alot of networking(e.g. golf). Don found that hard to fathom because neither Bert(too old), Cooper(heart ailment), or he( no inclination ) play golf and they seem to know everyone.

This was the 60s when amputees and other ailments like Polio were hidden from view(there wert no special olympics).
The English health care system at the time would have been very adept at dealing with missing limbs because of the high number of injured English WW2 vets. And amputating a foot is not rocket science either, even Joan's hubby could have sailed through that with flying colors.

*Scavok: No, there was no cloning in 1963. In 1974 it was a relatively new concept – an advanced science teacher discussed cloning with us; I was a senior in high school that year.

Remember: DNA was discovered in about 1953.

I think people need to give Betty a break. I dont think that she is a great mother, but I do think that she is a good mother (in fact I enjoy her scenes the most). Yes the emotional aspect can be lacking sometimes, but she does her duties everyday. Her parents weren't the emotional type. In fact they were pretty blunt and synical. Gene didn't pull any punches. You all act like she is supposed to be fawning over the kids morning, noon and night. That's not realistic. Not all parents then or now are like that. It's really weird, but I actually think that Betty and Sally have a special bond. . . more like adults.

I like that the episode ended with these big question marks. With the guy out, what does that mean for Don? What is in the future for Joan? How will this whole debacle affect Sterling Cooper?

Hmm... so I am wondering if Lois will be sued? Will she be tried on the stand? When incidents happened like this back then, what was the typical punishment?

Also, we have seem so many biases on the show - against gender, race, religion... are we finally seeing our first hints of bias against the disabled? Because i do agree too that it is possible to work with a missing foot.

Is anyone keeping track of how many predictions actually come true in this series? Remarkable that someone recognized/researched "Connie" as Conrad Hilton and this came to fruition in this episode. But my sense is that 95% of the predictions go nowhere and I tend to scroll through. It's less the predictions, and more the insights that interest me.

Just noticed how much Jon Hamm looks like a younger Timothy Dalton. Anyone else think so?

I laughed out loud when Harry applauded the announcement there would be no layoffs.

I'm not sure Don was thinking about British women. That might have been a glimpse of his ambition.

Sally may not be stealing the show, but she's stealing my heart. Was there any doubt of her fear regarding baby Gene? Or how much she needs and wants her father to be part of her life? That little girl is a mighty fine actress.

Speaking of which, Christina Headricks (sp) was just exceptional. I still say Joan, not Peggy, may end up becoming the fierce feminist on this show. Once Joan finally realizes how smart and competent she is, she is going to want to make up for lost time. Maybe she'll have to get a job as a bunny at the Playboy Club and run into Gloria Steinem.

Great episode.

Hi Everyone!

I love this show and love coming hear to read everyone's insight! You almost can't watch this show without reading what everyone has posted. You ALL have given me some very interesting "food for thought" into every episode, scene and character since the first Season. Thank you!! I My husband and daughter watch it as well. We are all in front of the TV on Sunday nights. And love talking about it afterwards.!

With all of that said, I wanted to give you some of my thoughts on this episode and some of the characters...

I absolutely LOVED this episode! I know there are a lot of us whose jaws hit the floor with lawnmower scene! (And then couldn't help but laugh) Priceless.! I know some had posted that the show was dragging...well not anymore! I love how MW sets us up everytime! Love the whole analogy of the Title..".Guy walks in to an Advertising Agency but doesn't walk out!"

Poor Poor Lois! You couldn't help but laugh at her as well. She is the goofy co worker! She is used to play practical jokes, gets her scarf caught in the copier and then , unfortunately is allowed to get behind the wheel of lawnmower! I do not think that they would set up this character like they have in the past couple of episodes (even if it was only in reference) and then get rid of her. I honestly feel she will stay at SC. She saved a lot of people their current positions. Pete's line "One more promotion and we'll be answering the phones." She will be rewarded somehow, she may get put back on the switchboard, but she will stay.

CLASSIC Joan! Loved her this episode. She is a very strong woman! She will, in some way. get rid of Dr. and will return with SC or as some have stated..maybe go to work with Don and/or Conrad. She is hear to stay!! (What an amazing actor Christina is!)

Also, did anyone pick up on when Joan said she just ate dinner for two? Any connection with the fact that she may possibly be pregnant?

My new favorite saying (to replace the old one)..."one minute you're on top of the world, and the next minute some secretary is running over you with a lawnmower!" I still laugh writing it!! (Only true MadMen fans will know what I mean when i say it!"

I really enjoyed seeing Roger back to his old self. Love his one liners!!

I believe that the mention of Vietnam and being drafted; the guys being splattered with blood on them; Joan's quick actions like a field nurse in a war zone; the pain Guy must be feeling in losing a limb..is setting us up for the Vietnam War. While at the same time referencing the blood stained dress as Joan/Jackie and the JFK Assassination. Classic writing!

I want to say that I am glad to see that Betty is sporting a post partum baby bump. It makes it more realistic to see this. Some shows would have had her back in corseted dresses. It just doesn't happen like that. It takes awhile to get your body back, especially after the third!

I am concerned ,though. about the baby. I know, I know.. ..others have talked about this a lot!! I don't want anything to happen, but the comment from Bobby about " that all he does is sleep" and then Betty making the comment to the baby to sleep all it wants, then again when talking to Don she said "the baby was just perfect today!" I am afraid there may be some complications from her alcohol consumption. As a mother, I do know they sleep a lot, but they also cry a lot!!! Something just doesn't seem right with me about that. Does anyone feel the same way?

Thanks again to all of you and your wonderful posts.

I believe the doll is a 1964 Brunette Bubble Cut Barbie.

I remember being creeped out by dolls and piles of clothes in my room when I was Sally's age. Night lights can play tricks on young eyes. I imagine when she woke up and saw the doll staring at her with that impassive face she was terrified.

I love noticing the subtle differences in business practices then & now. Not the big stuff, like having a lawnmower/champagne party in the office, but little things...like completely changing the structure of the organization by showing an (incomplete) org chart and 2 seconds later announcing it to everyone. I'm curious how many ad agencies would do that today, without "change management" plans to generate more "buy in" from the employees.

As for Don & Joan: I know Joan is smokin' hot and all, but I really don't think Don was looking at her like "hey, there's another chick I could bang" when she kissed him on the cheek in the hospital. Don connects with someone living a double life, or at least with a big secret. That's why he has the bond with Peggy, and I got that he senses it with Joan, too. So there's a common thread they all share; the things that cannot be spoken. Joan doesn't see it in Peggy so much (I think her jealousy of Peggy gets int he way), but I would love to see that relationship play out more, too.

What the hell just happened? Blood all over Sterling Cooper.
Couldn't help noticing the comparison to Roger's story about his father losing an arm.

It's so sad. I see Conrad Hilton and I can't help think of his family namesake, Paris Hilton. This is not the most person people think of when they hear the name Hilton. Spinning in his grave.

The previews for this episode really had me fooled. I though roger was waving bye-bye to Don as in "Don't let the door hit you on the way out".

Don was pissed. I wonder where that will go. And where the hell does Conrad Hilton figure into his future. (BTW, I simply can't believe that someone on this board last week figure that out that it was Conrad Hilton. Incredible.)

Made sense that the TV section would be given a boost. I'm going to go out on a limb and state that, crazy as it may sound, that TV is the future! I predict by the 70's everyone will have a couple.

It's takes a special kind of writing to make some guy random getting his foot run over by a lawnmower funny but funny it was....and then to back that up with the "foot in the door" line. I love the idea that he gets put out to pasture because he has no foot. Can't golf. Geez! Why not just put a bullet in his head.

Though Betty is vapid, I think Don's objections to the son being named Eugene (w/r to the mutual dislike of her dad) was retarded and Betty's response was right-on. I also think it's not unreasonable that Betty wouldn't understand the name issue w/r to sally's problem. It's a real odd situation. Nice scene with Don at the end.

As far as Vietnam goes, I would think those guys wouldn't get drafted. I found the below. So, the draft didn't start for 6 years past this episode? (I thought the draft had started a couple of years earlier but I guess I'm wrong). The people in that office would be too old to be included.
A lottery drawing - the first since 1942 - was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. This event determined the order of call for induction during calendar year 1970, that is, for registrants born between January 1, 1944 and December 31, 1950. Reinstitution of the lottery was a change from the oldest first method, which had been the determining method for deciding order of call.

Hi, and again, was riveted.
It was Joan and Sally's night.
Don was so wonderful! Being the family man, in his weekend clothes. (I am always so shocked to see him like this).

The "Snake Charmer"? That is what they called Lane? Really?
I believe that Don is the Snake Charmer, and his smile tells me so.
I also think that Joan is the "Snake Charmer". With her creepy husband, and in the office.
Joan won't be going anywhere. We hate to hear her be called "Mrs. Harris". Because of the restructuring, she will have to stay on, and for a raise. She needs it because of Dr. Rapist.

These English Dudes think they have control, but they don't.
The higher ups at SC know this. That could be the 4th of July all over again.
Now I must leave, and read many more posts before I can finish my thoughts here.

I think it's sad that someone who says "First the president and now this!" in his acceptance speech is considered to be making a radical political statement.

Loved Last night's episode!! Can't wait to rewatch and observe what others have posted. Loved Joan ---she's definitely got brains in her fingers. Really hope its doctor on the floor as well.
@sugarbear I don't think Peggy has ever wanted to be like Joan. I think she realized from the start she wasn't a Joan. She'd probably like to be at times. And she's even heeded her advice before(season 2, showing up at the strip club looking like an adult after Joan told her to stop dressing like a child)
but I think Peggy has pretty much Identified what she wants to be and thats a successful copy righter moving her way up as high as she can. Sure she has her moments when it seems she wishes she were more like her roomate or more accepted in the steno pool since they always leave her out of gift-buying or other pieces of info around the office--I think they see her as someone they cant connect with because of her position-- but then she he seems to refocus on her goals with the hopes of maybe having it all" in the future.(Think back to her fingering the baby gift last pisode in Don's office)peggy is the precursor to the women's movement .

Also, the political sparring is annoying. I LOVE madmen. What I'd like to discuss is Mad Men, not people's views liberal dems or conservative repubs healthcare or the current administration. I'm sure there are political blogs owhere you can draw blo on. I'm as opinionated as the next girl, but on this blog/board my opinions are focused on the wonderfully nuanced writing of Mad Men and I absolutely love reading everyone's thoughts and insights about the show.MadMen is the topic --we all love to discuss, agree and disagree on, Lets keep it there.

@JoanieBaby - I agree that Don senses Joan's secrets. He has helped advance everyone who he knows (or suspects?) has secrets. Peggy, Sal, Harry...I really hope he reels Joan back to SC, but NOT for sex, as entertaining as it would surely be. ;)

Some of my observations:

Joan broke her own rule about crying in the office. And where was her hankie?

Camera/lighting feasts on Joan's ample bosom as the scene with Greg cuts to Don lying there looking up at a light fixture which resembles a female breast! Dreaming of the land of milk and honey? ;-)

Don and Roger both had a close shave. When Betty was commenting on Don's cheek, I was expecting one of them to say "smooth as a baby's bottom", weren't you?

The bubblecut Barbie came out in 1962. It has been reissued and is selling for about $40. I sized up Sally's gift before the paper came off! But I don't think she would've been able to just lift the doll out. They were anchored with wires, as I recall. Love the shot of the wicked looking doll refusing to meet Sally's gaze! Then head-first into the shrubbery! A metaphor for the glamorous but restrictive fashions of that period?

Conrad-- are you pulling my leg? Of course people can drastically change at age 35 after having children! It's a huge motivator, and usually inspires people to reexamine their lives and futures. Besides, Don is good at compartmentalizing.

Hobocode-- What about the Twilight Zone ep. featuring the "Talking Tina" doll? "I'm Talking Tina and I want to kill you!"

Joneieric-- my mom used to say, "stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about". Betty's typical command to "go play" was common in our house as well.

DonDraperEsq-- Burl Ives had a hit song "A Little Bitty Tear Let Me Down" in 1962. He sings with a tremor in his voice.

CoupedeVille-- I agree about Roger being needy. He always needs Don to validate his playboy lifestyle, but Don seldom plays along. Remember the scene with the twin auditioning actresses?

Wychwood-- Ernie Maresca had a hit song in 1962 called "Shout, Shout, Knock Yourself Out". Maybe Joan was just quoting that?

The song playing during the office party sounds like one of Chubby Checker's many follow-ups to "Let's Twist Again Like We Did Last Summer" from 1961. It starts out with that drumbeat intro. Couldn't nail it down, sorry.

E-Roc--I thought about Monty Python too! The Holy Grail scene with the amputee knight, right?

Don drank a Heineken in the office kitchen after Betty kicked him out.

The Dylan song is called "Song to Woody" and speaks prophetically about "a funny old world that's a-comin' along" and that "it looks like it's a-dyin' an' it's hardly been born." Terrible times just around the corner for the USA. And I ain't talking about the British Invasion.

Bobby Draper looks as if he is uncared for. Is Betty not managing to reconnect with her washing machine?

oops, blood all over Sterling Cooper!
Definitely a connection to Roger's story about his father losing an arm!

madgirl -
Hmm... so I am wondering if Lois will be sued? Will she be tried on the stand? When incidents happened like this back then, what was the typical punishment?

No, she wouldn't. It happened in the company office, by a client's product there on legitimate business. True, she was drunk and at the wheel but it would be the company that would be sued, not Lois. (Far deeper pockets, anyway.)

As for Guy's foot - the UK, regardless of National Health's funding at the time, had a lot of WWII-experienced doctors who knew what to do with severed or partially severed limbs. Prosthesis and rehabilitation. If he was an exceptional employee (as he should have been to take that position), PP&L might even pay for specialists outside the National Health system.

BTW, Harry is not going to nominate Joan to work for him. He had that opportunity earlier and didn't do it. He'll only do it if he's prodded by Don or Roger. Frankly, I think she intimidates him on a personal level.

adiamond -
First, read the posts for Ep 4 - "My Old Kentucky Home." Plenty of talk there about Connie being Conrad Hilton.

Second, the draft never really went away after WWII. Guys were always being drafted into the Army. The lottery method went away but not the draft. My uncle was drafted into the Army in 1958. As was Elvis. Both were sent to Germany.

Ah, Mad Men is back. This is the first episode this season that feels like S1 and S2. Loved it. So loved that MM took home some more Emmys, even though it does not have the ratings as some other "shows" (ok, I abhor all 'reality' TV; total crap IMO). Especially appreciate the writing award. (btw, anyone else catch Lane's reference to Pax Romana? carry over from The Decline and Fall of Rome theme...)

So why was Conrad Hilton staying at the Waldorf? Were there no Hilton hotels in Manhattan yet, or does Hilton own Waldorf?

Well, we asked for more action this season, and we sure got it last night! It took me a minute to realize that was blood spraying all over the place. Joan really distinguished herself in a crisis. She'll be back. This show does a good job of reflecting how much an individual's career advancement is to a large extent a matter of chance and opportunity.

The writers are really neglecting Peggy's character development. That's OK....more time for Joan.
Don seemed to be mentoring Peggy for awhile. He has abandoned her like he has abandoned his wife and children. Betty - "He had a good day today"
Don - "Who did?"

WOW! Great episode!
NeverNotTasty: I was so shocked by the John Deere incident I didn’t notice that Pete caught Peggy. I also didn’t notice that Hooker had been shagging someone and was not on deck when it happened. I definitely need to watch that scene again.

I also wanted Joan and Peggy to finish their talk before all hell broke loose. They seemed to be having a real heart-to-heart.

One nagging question – how did Ken get the mower into the office? Did he drive down Madison Avenue and then into the elevator? Where did he get it? There don’t seem to be a lot of John Deere dealers in Manhattan.

52inla “Go Bang Your Head” This was not abusive for the time. I was always being told to go play on the freeway. I didn’t take it personal.

I can’t believe I was kind of feeling sorry for Layne Pryce being sent to Bombay. You do a good job, and they send you to somewhere way worse than NY. Imagine what his wife would have said about the “insects” in that place! Maybe he will develop some redeeming qualities. And get some new spectacles.

About the Barbie: That was not Midge, it was a dark-haired Barbie. Midge had longer red hair and freckles. I hated her. I only had a few Barbies and my friends and I would always fight about who had to be Midge. She never got Ken either.

Love that Roger is back in his true form. His comments were fantastic! I too hope he gets his mojo (and Joan) back!

Will someone PLEASE pay some attention to poor Bobby! He just wanted to pet the baby!

Was anyone else offended by the Ketel One ad that ran during this episode?

It's one thing for Mad Men to portray the sexism that existed in the workplace in the 1960s but very annoying to me that Ketel One celebrates sexism in the present day.

Aside from that, loved the episode, fell off the couch when the blood splattered, congrats on another great win!!!

@nikita_ava your perceptions are impeccable. I like to hunt down your comments. I did not even think of how the blood on Joan's dress relates to the blood on Jackie Kennedy's.

The lawn mower incident shows me how fragile and sudden leadership can change and how the change can have an effect on all things after. It makes me wonder how different our involvement in Vietman would have been if Kennedy was not assassinated.

I Think that Lane's self reflection will bring Don and him more together as business partners and since the British are soon going to have more of a cultural impact on America ( The Beatles, fashion, James Bond movies etc.) Sterling Cooper will prosper while being owned by a British company..

I hope Joan doesn't go to Roger for help getting back on staff at SC.
She shouldn't have to go on her knees to him (please no jokes!) after everything they've been through...

@doxiesrule- Yes! Plus the sexism in the Clorox ads: ONLY women doing laundry for years and years and years, in time lapse...oh please!

Hey !

Just had a thought after watching for the third time...The shot of Smitty on the lawnmower with the Secretary in the pink suit riding on back and the connection with JFK "motorcade"..then shortly after that ending in bloodshed.

jeffe64, Good call! That same secretary (Don's) was holding Guy's head (a la Jackie with her husband post-shooting) while Joan tended to his injury.

jeffe64, Good call! That same secretary (Don's) was holding Guy's head (a la Jackie with her husband post-shooting) while Joan tended to his injury.

1st time post.
I read earlier that people thought Don was lying face down in the preview for next week. Could it be Joan's hubby committed suicide? Leaving her open to return... just a thought.

hobocode52" "Did the doll being in Sally's room scare her into shrieking or was it the Gene Ghost nightmare. For a second I thought we were in a chucky movie. Does anyone recall some scary puppet movies from the past. One with Anthony Hopkins or Ann Margaret, or an old Twilight Zone?"

It reminded me of the Twilight Zone episode, "Living Doll" - which featured the doll "Talking Tina." This doll threatened the nasty stepfather of the little girl who owned it. He kept trying to get rid of the doll, but she kept returning. Interestingly, this episode first aired in 1963 (but it was not until Nov 1).

I met a few Joans in the office environments of the '70s. They were the sharpest pencils in the drawer, so to speak. Certainly smarter, faster adapters, and generally more competent than anyone else, including their bosses. But in the end, that often became their handicap. They would be promoted up through the secretarial ranks to office manager and then get stuck there. Not because there was nowhere else to use their talents (we saw that when Joan's natural skills as a TV media buyer was overlooked), but because even though they did not acknowledge the fact in status or pay, companies understood their overall dependance on these women and feared the difficult task of trying to replace them. Their thinking was: Better to train some green sapling from business school for the emerging management job than to shape up a replacement from the steno pool to replace the "Joan". (How many times have the men at Sterling Cooper referred to the secretaries as "idiots".)

Usually marriage resolved the glass ceiling issues, but if it didn't, then ten years later, these office manager types would harden into the embittered "battleaxes" that someone on this thread referred to earlier. These days, Joan would probably leave corporate life to become an entrepreneur.

Even today, something that is still projected at women in management roles (usually by younger female employees) is the expectation that the female manager will have mothering sensibilities, or a work mentality based on emotional relationship issues. For example, the secretary asking Joan if her direct commands (probably based on her awareness of how little time was left for her to ensure her instructions were going to be carried out) were a screen for the "pain of parting", because that is how the secretary's mother behaved.

Yes! jeffe64 et al who have commented on the Kennedy foreshadowing, great call on the pink.

I thought that the choice of green for Joan was appropriate, almost as if she were the grassy knoll.

I was thinking more about all of the symbolism of the blades: razor and lawn mower: close shave, yet it was...severed foot. power from Brits back to SC/American side of things...mobility, freedom, all of which will have been restricted thus far under PPL,

(Soon to be restricted in the post nuclear, pre information age.) Also, lots of references to hands, feet, t/out episode. … I do notice that Don is always gone or uninvolved at these moments, and comes out ahead.

I think that Joan making the joke in the hospital was also a way of her joking about everything that happened with her husband, maybe making it easier to accept, let go.

Someone commented about Joan possibly having a medical background; she had once commented that she didn’t like cafeteria food because it reminded her of hospital food? I am interested to find out more as the chronology of the show would put her, for ten years at SC and age 31, at SC right out of college… where would her hospital background come from?

why do they keep changing dons oldest son each season? i think season II had the best one. he really looked like don and was a great little actor. i dont care for the one playing his son this season. what do you think? i hope the season II son comes back.

@kitty: I know! It's as though a friend of Matt Weiner had a son that age and got him the part. I liked last year's Bobby, too.. That scene where he told Don he would have to get a him a new daddy made me cry.

@Fred:The father who was killed by Talking Tina in the Twilight Zone Episode was played by Telly Savales.

Hi! Mah name is Lois Sadler. People call me Lois Sadler.

Momma always said, "Stupid is as stupid does".

Don and Sally are bonding in the absence of Gene. But Gene's death, and that partial disintegration of the family, still haunts Sally and creates friction within the remaining family unit.

Betty did try to act maternally this episode by giving Sally a peace offering-- a gift-- from baby Gene. Sally is enthusiastic about the gift until she learns it is from Gene. Then Sally turns cold. Most girls would probably be excited to receive a new doll, especially a new Barbie. But because it is a gift from baby Gene, whom Sally believes to be Grandpa Gene reincarnate, she is spooked by the doll. She leaves the doll outdoors in the dark, where Don retrieves it upon arrival home from work. Don brings it into Sally's room, and leaves it on the dresser, sitting up and looking directly at Sally from the edge of the doorway. Sally wakes up, sees it staring at her like some kind of voo-doo doll and screams incessantly until Don rescues her. She thinks it is following her like Chuckie or something.

Still a lot of family issues to resolve.

Hi all. First time here - inspired by fabulous episode. I must be in the minority as Betty seems fairly ordinary (albeit beautiful) '60s mom with three kids. She's cuddly compared to the mom next door to my family growing up! The Barbie is both a gift and a sad, scary commentary, though, on limitations B. feels. It would have been too obvious to give Sally the blonde Barbie. . .
Loved the bedroom dialogue/ showdown when B. tells Don that naming kids after loved ones 'is what people do' - of course not having any peeps Don is not liking it a bit. Still, Don manned up in a big way with the kidlets so you have to love that. Agree with others that Don will get sick of B's whinging but don't know how he will act out. He wants to be good - doesn't he? We somehow need to combine Betty and Joan - perfection! See you next week, K.