I said this in another thread (but, I can't remember which one now). Is it possible the "Old Kentucky Home" is a reference to Betty's father being placed in a retirement home? Just a guess....

How about a new pre-show thing...let's bet what scene, or ratther with what character, will be the opening. My take is it will be with Pete in the office. Who knows?

No, it refers to the Kentucky Derby, where they play "My Old Kentucky Home" before the race. I believe Roger and Jane are hosting a garden party. BTW, the date was May 4 1963 for those who are keeping track of such things.

I would not be surprised to see Gene end up in a nursing home sometime this season but he's barely unpacked his bags at the Draper house so I expect it will be some time before he either wanders off, sending the household in a panic looking for him, or nearly burns the house down by forgetting to turn off food cooking on the stove. Maybe he'll take the kids for a drive and not recognize where he is, putting Sally and Bobby in jeopardy enough that even Betty will have to agree to his placement.

Hi Auburn Annie!

I am a thoroughbred fan, I know about the song. What I can't figure out is why would they be going to the Kentucky Derby? And, if last weeks' episode took place on May 1st, wouldn't that be a very slow jump to May 4th?

It will be interesting to see, I've been wrong before, and will again when it comes to MM!

Nobody's GOING to the Kentucky Derby. But people all over the country celebrate race day with garden parties, complete with hat wearing and mint juleps.

.....Pretty sure the women at Roger's "do" were wearing hats.....it's the scene in the preview where Roger says to Don, "What did I do to get under your skin?"

Hi Dry! From what I remember, women wore hats whenever they dressed up back then.
And, I'm not sure, but, I don't think people celebrated the Triple Crown races as much back then. Well, except for the Vanderbilts, Whitneys et.al. who would be at the races.

Ah...my beloved Kentucky Derby! Mine That Bird was this year’s winner by the way…what a great horse.
Anyway, I think it may be a Derby party or…Betty’s dad reminiscing and wanting to return to his Old Kentucky Home…or even Betty remembering it since she’s a Kentucky native…whatever it means, of course, this being MM, it will have unique and important symbolism.

I think Roger and Jane/June will open the episode.

Even though my screen name implies that I gamble a bit, I only make safe bets. Roger and bride are the favorites in this race, I believe.

Is it just me or is this season moving very slowly.? It seems like Matthew Weiner has taken the Sopranos lead and is stringing us out via running the whole thing slower..Sal should've gotten gay two seasons ago. They alluded to it on the first episode of season one. I do like the way that Don Draper told Betty's brother exactly what they're going to be doing. It just goes to show you that if you're tough at your job then you are tough at home. I was a little bit confused by the opening of the season premiere... but I guess we're just learning that Don was really really unwanted. By the way what ever happened with the guy that Betty fooled around with last season? also Joan is looking huge... I hope it's just padding... maybe they're alluding that she got pregnant from the rape. I also hope that we see a lot less of these English guys... I get it. Larger companies are buying them.. who cares? Let's just get back to our favorite cast.. I would like to see more of Don's brilliant advertising campaigns... and his pitch meetings... as for Pete Campbell another big who cares? what's great about this is Don Draper, his dual life.. and his guilt, and his escapades.. honestly they could get rid of some of those other guys in the office..no one cares about can Kenneth Cosgrove... I will of course not miss one episode this season. But I would still like to see more about his secret life. Especially the ex in California..

these writers backed himself into a corner when they create too many superfluous characters.

@60'schild and madfan The Derby was one in 63 by Chateaugay ridden by Braulio Baeza a fairly famous NY jockey

That's a pretty good bet fifty-two, but I'll raise you and say it's going to be Joan and her hubby that open the show.

@hollywooddirector

Ken Cosgrove is necessary to the show as a foil to highlight other people's attitudes and behaviour. Many of the things he says and does bring out strong reactions in other people. Think of Harry's reaction to seeing Ken's paycheck; contrast Pete's reaction to being made Head of Accounts with Ken's; remember how Sal reacted to Ken's statement re: homosexuals; how envious Paul and Pete were that Ken was published instead of their efforts; and think how exasperated Peggy is with Ken's blithe acceptance of sexism in advertising.

Sure he's a turnip, but he serves a purpose.

TERRIBLE EPISODE!

Oh, wait, it hasn't run yet, has it?

My wager: Peggy opens the show.

From the title of this episode I'm guessing that it is going to cover the subject of racism. All the servers at Roger's party will be black and yet, invisible.

I'm not looking forward to more flashbacks, if there are any. (Just like to get my pre-emptive whining out of the way.)

@That's funny KBF

Why do people complain about what they don't want to see? Season Three is all but 2-3 episodes away from completion. It's not like Weiner is going to change anything to please the viewers. I'm sure people wrote to The Strand or whatever magazine Charles Dickens was writing for, begging him not to kill off Little Nell, but Litltle Nell bit the dust just the same...

NeverNotTasty, you're right, they need characters like Cosgrove. I do fear however that the show runs the risk of having too many new characters and running adrift because of it.

Not to be a debby downer, but excessive offtopic commenting like on last episode's thread really makes it impossible to find anything worth reading unless you're part of this clique.

It's not that I'm against the clique (or chatting), but I miss reading the interpretive and insightful comments that shed light on the episode. I really wish there was a separate forum or thread by which people could do their bantering and political statements.

My $.02.

@freshfunk. I agree, but it's not going to happen.

OMG! Jane's "request" to Joan about her chauffeur was hysterical. Does Joan have a great revenge in store for Jane? I hope so, she is soooo good at it.

Joan blew cigarette smoke in her face. No, Joanie's not done with Jane yet, not by a long shot.

hllywddirect, dare I disagree? I can easily keep track of all the characters, major and minor. I think the show is a feast, a banquet, not to be gobbled and devoured quickly, but many flavors to be enjoyed slowly and thoughtfully. We are smart, you too, we can keep up. Keep it coming.

Hey 60'sChild - if you are a thoroughbred fan, don't you think "Run For the Roses" by Dan Fogelberg is a much better song to honor the Kentucky Derby? I get tears in my eyes every time I hear it on my iPod! And I cry buckets whenever I see the last 30 minutes of "Seabiscuit."

@never not tasty. I was just stating a personal preference. To me, the flashbacks (don in Korean, watching himself being born) are a couple of the least effective scenes of the entire series. Although I will admit to enjoying the flashback to when he was selling cars. I wouldn't for a second assume that Weiner & Co. would change something based on what we write. Nor should they. I'd also guess that they're probably a little too busy to be monitoring Internet chats.

@KBF

I thought you were being self-deprecating and so I was complimenting your witticism: "Pre-emptive whining." I thought that was very funny. And since I assumed you were making fun of people who complain, my statement wasn't directed at you. I assumed we were both laughing at the people who say they don't like the way things are going in the series - as if Weiner (a) read our comments and (b) cared what anyone else wanted.

I think you and I must have a very different sense of humor. Me, I'm big on irony, and you took my comment way too literally. But I stand by my statement. Why do people complain that they don't like where the show is going. It's going where Weiner wants it to go, and we are just along for the ride.

What ho maddicts– I, among many, am all of a doo-dah waiting on ep 3- 1 day to go, YAY! Looking back on the ep 2 thread, I just want to say

1) Wow – what a great trip
2) That probably none of us really need to respond to pernicious, pretentious, and puerile posts/claptrap (Yes, I do see the alliteration police are at the door)

Relatively new to this, I now understand what a troll is. Someone else on another thread said this, and better: way more succinct: one word: “Ignore”.

Looking forward to some great new insights and fun!

Mint Juleps. hmmmmm I remember Betts making them at Sally's birthday party. I think she said "Mint Julips anyone? It's that time of year."

@DobieGirl: If you enjoyed the "Seabiscuit" movie, read the book. It is 100 times better. I laughed AND cried reading it.

@NeverNotTasty. I think I read your post too quickly and got defensive. We're cool.

Hidey, wasthere, I also love the Seabiscuit book and movie.

Yes, as good as the movie is, the book is better.

Maybe (probably) there's a deeper message to E3 than just the Derby...it's really a mournful song of changing times.

MY OLD KENTUCKY HOME, 1893

The sun shines bright on my old Kentucky home
Tis summer, the darkies are gay
The corn top's ripe and the meadow's in bloom
While the birds make music all the day
The young folks roll on the little cabin floor
All merry, all happy and bright
By 'n by hard times come a-knocking at the door
Then my old Kentucky home good night

Weep no more, my lady
Oh, weep no more, today
We will sing one song for the old Kentucky home
For the old Kentucky home far away.

They hunt no more for the 'possum and the coon,
On meadow, the hill and the shore,
They sing no more by the glimmer of the moon,
On the bench by that old cabin door.
The day goes by like a shadow o'er the heart,
With sorrow where all was delight.
The time has come when the darkies have to part,
Then my old Kentucky home, good night.

The head must bow and the back will have to bend, Wherever the poor folks may go
A few more days and the trouble will end,
In the field where sugar-canes may grow.
A few more days for to tote the weary load,
No matter, 'twill never be light
A few more days till we totter on the road,
Then my old Kentucky home, good night.

I'm new, hi!

I think you've got it rozsie...!

Nice find....

Hi Old Fashoned! I'm kind of new, too.

I think the season is moving slowly, but if you pay attention really closely, a lot is going on just under the surface. If a garden party is being hosted, I bet it's in honor of the Kentucky Derby. I may be wrong but then I'll be the first to admit it. If it's early May, and Betty is as big as she is, then she may be due mid-June. Then it would have been late September/early October when she found out. I had two kids in early June, so you know...lol.

When I saw the tease picture, I thought it was Roger's daughter's wedding, but then I remembered it was to happen in November. I don't think Betty's father will end up in a home. Don feels too strongly about this. This was before Alzheimers, so I don't think they really understand what's going on. I thought "My Old Kentucky Home" was a reference to Betty's dad's situation, whether he is from Kentucky, or something similar. I can't wait to see the episode tonight so I can really say something.

About the comment about smoke being blown in somebody's face. I know there's a language associated with cigarette smoke, eg. if a woman blows smoke in a man's face it means she's interested, if a woman (or man) blows smoke in the face of somebody else in anger, it means they want to fight or something similar, has anybody else heard this? Or is somebody (pardon the...whatever it seems to be) blowing smoke up my skirt?

@Old Fashioned: We used to have someone with that moniker the past two seasons and he disappeared. Are you the same guy?

For what it's worth, I predict that Kentucky is either the place the real Don Draper was originally from, or where he lived before shipping out to Korea...

Hi old soul, I'm the one who posted about Joan blowing smoke, oh yes, most definitlely striking first blood, AKA bring it on B, I am so not scared of you. It is a prelude, a war dance.

I can't wait!!

prediction: The episode preview says Sally has a run in with Gene. I read somewhere else that someone spotted an outdoor filming with Gene and a Sally lookalike in a car. Perhaps the "run in" is an accident, because Gene still drives the Lincoln? Or maybe he lets Sally drive it?

bye bye Gene!

Hi Dobie girl! Sorry it took a while to answer. I think the Dan Folgerberg song is beautiful also.

"My Old Kentucky Home" is a tradition at the Derby. Just like the songs at The Preakness and Belmont.

I lived in Saratoga Springs for a few years, that is where my love of thoroughbred horse racing comes from. My parents and sister still live there, and I miss the city terribly. Yesterday was The Travers, which is the big race for Saratoga.

Anyway, I'm way off topic... I swore I wasn't going to get on the Forum until after tonight's episode, but here I am!
I wondered after re-watching last weeks episode if Gene is from Kentucky originally. I was thinking about the scene where he thought the police were coming to raid the liquor and he was dumping it out. He told Don, the heat was on, and he better get rid of any other booze he had around.
Is it possible he was a moonshiner originally from Kentucky?

Re: the song My Old KH, my two cents early on in this thread was that the servers at Roger's party would be black and invisible. And the lyrics to the song are highly retrograde. "Darkies" equals black people. I believe Weiner is going to be making a statement re: racism.

485Madison: Thank your for keeping the faith. And no, I am not freshfunk.

@deepdish - agree with you totally, and you put it so well "the show is a banquet". Indeed! featuring many courses and rich food.
@H'wood director: I think what we might call peripheral characters are vital to a show like this, with such multi-layered stories. These characters may come back for a cameo/wrap up with a bow - or may not. Point being, they don't have to. Duck is an example... in my mind I can wrap up Duck because he really did "step in it" - losing the coup he tried, and then becoming petulant about it. Still, one never knows with this fabulous fun gift of great entretainment.

@deepdish .. forgot to say I love your "handle" - so cool!

And, apologies in front and hope you all will bear with me... I am a very crappy typist, and somewhat dyslexic to boot!

In the previews for tonight, does Jane make some comment to Joan about "can't stop losing weight"? Traditionally, in a "daytime drama", an annoying cough or a throw away comment like that is the precursor to the character's demise. Or maybe she was just snarking Joan's somewhat overblown figure.

Hold the phone! I just read the lyrics to My Old Kentucky Home and look: "Tis summer, the darkies are GAY..." Wow, a whole new story line.

All the folks who got their knickers in a knotty twist about Sal's gay storyline can now rant and down their blood pressure pills about race as well.

Yes, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

@60schild: I visited Sarasota Springs to attend a jazz festival. It is absolutely beautiful there!

Hey thanks Melba!
And flowerpower, you know, I thought that exact thing - can't lose weight, uh oh. luv the suspense. it's delicious.

and all you maddicts, may I ask, your predictions for this evening?

WELL-WELL-WELL:

I guess I am NOW the 54th Snow Angel to defile this new thread. . .I have so MUCH enjoyed reading and commenting on other threads, TODAY, that are subsidiaries of the MAIN LINE.

AHEM: I work in FASHION for now. For what it is worth-(F.U.MONTY)- I wished to enclose a quote from Friday's "NYTimes-8-28-09,": (oops about the poor punctuation; I have had a few HIBISCUS cocktails because of the extreme humidity).

I find this ALARMING:
". . . of course it really is ALL about money. Despite being crammed with glossy images of beautiful, weird, unnattractive, ridiculous and prohibitively expensive clothes and accessories, "VOGUE" isn't about fashion: it's about stoking the DESIRE for those clothes and accessories. It's about the CREATION of lust and the transformation of wants into needs. . ."

SO WHAT?: Mad Men is explaining and mining territory that NO ONE has ever really DARED to, concerning our CONSUMERIST climate. . .(i.e., the ROOTS thereof).

I have clients that have 5 closets of designer apparel: and they do not know what- to- wear?. . . For yrs, in my youth, the (absence of color) WHITE, was my trademark; NOW, I only wear BLACK c/o COCO CHANEL(the color that combines all colors as acc to "Itten."). In our American Culture we are dictated+/dedicated to the obsession: MORE IS MORE. In Europe it is completely opposite: LESS IS MORE. If folks wd only buy ONE jacket or great cashmere sweater, or tropical gabardine skirt/pants per season to enhance their existing wardrobe: it seems that they'd be so very much happier!?

I'MA'PREACHIN" and I'll now take out the recycling and make another drink.

MADDESTLOVE:FAN-NAN!!!

Topical trivia: on this date (May 4 1963) other than the Kentucky Derby

MUSIC

The Beatles' “From Me To You”/”Thank You Girl” reached the top of the UK charts, staying there for seven weeks. In the US, the song reached only No. 116 in the Billboard charts.

The Rolling Stones shoot their first photo session.

Billboard's Top Five Albums of the Week:

The Top Five (May 4, 1963)
1) Days of Wine and Roses - Andy Williams [16 weeks]
2) West Side Story - Soundtrack
3) Songs I Sing on the Jackie Gleason Show - Frank Fontaine
4) Moving - Peter, Paul and Mary
5) The Kingston Trio #16 - The Kingston Trio

*********************************************8
CIVIL RIGHTS

3 Students Bitten in Second Day of Demonstrations Against Segregation
250 Marchers Seized
Robert Kennedy Fears Rise in Turmoil
Dr. King Says Protests Will Be Pressed

By FOSTER HAILEY
Special to The New York Times

IRMINGHAM, Ala., May 3 -- Fire hoses and police dogs were used here today to disperse Negro students protesting racial segregation.

Three students were reported to have been bitten and to have required hospital treatment. Two firemen and a news photographer were injured by bricks and broken bottles thrown from the top of a Negro office building near the major encounter, at 17th Street and Fifth Avenue North. ...

... Today, with the dogs and fire hoses, the police were largely successful in dispersing the student marchers before they left the Negro section. Fewer than 500 were able to leave the 16th Street Baptist Church before the police sealed its doors. Only two groups won their way through the police lines.

Full text at http://partners.nytimes.com/library/national/race/050463race-ra.html

(this is the same church that was bombed in September 1963 resulting in the deaths of 4 girls.)

******************************************

SPORTS (non Derby)

Bob Shaw holds the NL record with five balks for the Milwaukee Braves against the Cubs on May 4, 1963 - and he had three in one inning.

Now, I swore to myself that I would not post until tonight, but since I read ALL the posts b4 posting, I came to this Open Thread to get a jump start on the 50 comments already posted, & boy I’m glad I did! Thanks to all the early posters for providing a really fun read!

As long as we’re all enjoying ourselves, did we really need for this blog to be CENSORED by AMC? I disagree w/ all my friends here on this decision. If it becomes a problem, then I will probably vacate the site, as well. Can’t people just scan what “a troll” posts & say, “Not worth my time.”?

@ wasthere: Have you had time to check out Amazon to see if they offer your film, “From The Ashes”? I checked my film collection, & I don’t have it. I’m sorry. I’ll check my film catalogue, & get back to you.

@wasthere: Concerning your remark to Oldfashioned, did it ever occur to anyone that when someone disappears on the blog, maybe something sinister happens to him or her? Oh hell, they’re probably just annoyed.

@StephanieJo: What an aspired idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Absolutely BRILLIANT! Our OWN contest to see which poster(s) guess(es) which MM character OPENS the show! Just wonderful. Something of OURS that the professional AMC Blog Reader cannot control! (Can you imagine this conversation in some Queens bar (like the one where Peggy stopped off), ‘And what do you do for a living?’ – ‘Well, I’m the blog reader at AMC. But, I’ve just been promoted to Blog CENSOR!’) Also, the contest provides a legitimate reason for people to (God forbid) post b4 the episode airs: Are you hearing me, posters, who complained about some early postings by authentic, & enthusiastic MM fans like ZABADU (& me!)

Okay, STEPHANIEJO: FIFTY TWO guesses Roger & Joan (posters that may be a tough guess to beat! Ouch.) KPF guesses Peggy will open. NEVERNOTTOASTY votes for Joan & Dr. Harris (better known as ‘Pure Scum’.) Guesses?

Me: Peggy will open.
My Mom: Peggy will open. And we voted secretly (until now, of course), & separately. (My Mom is a diehard MM fan, but she never posts. But, she enjoys reading everyone else’s!)

@60schild: There is a family game that I gave my sister’s family of four for Christmas, 2008. Players land on spaces around the game board, & stop to read questions off of cards, depending on where they land. All the questions are about members of their family. One question is “What sporting event would each member of your family like to attend at least once?” Now, everyone in my family knows that I famously HATE sports! (Okay, I will watch a hockey game, if I’m actually at the arena (you know, I was born in Buffalo, a ‘border town’ to Canada, or as it is famously known in Buffalo, ‘Hockey Heaven’.)) But, one family member knew that I have held a long time dream to attend The Kentucky Derby”, just once. So, to answer your question, “Why would a New Yorker want to go to The Kentucky Derby? I would! And I live in Manhattan.

@60schild: Notice neither Don nor Betty ran into the kitchen to “save” any of the remaining liquor from going down the drain.

@Monty: Thank-you for not posting early. Or ever.

@chopin47: Any chance you are going to write some award winning rhetoric tonight? And, what about guessing in our new contest, creatively designed by STEPHANIEJO.

@frankfunk: You WANT to be part of this clique? Okay, it’s not that hard to join. The rest of the clique will vote on it. (Just funning w/ you.) You have posted early on The Open Thread blog. Congratulations! You have automatically joined the clique. Believe me, we want new blood. Especially if you are a guy. GREG can’t do everything!

@hllywddirectr: I had to read your screen name over a bit to figure out what it meant. You asked, “Who cares about Ken Cosgrove?” Wow, I do! He’s one of my favorite characters! You called Ken a “superfluous character”. What show are you watching? Actually, all the office guys are favorites of mine, and I wish the writers would concentrate on them MORE! Didn’t the guy, who is now head of television (character name escapes me), sleep w/ Pete’s secretary after the drunken election night office bash? And what happened to Lois’ infatuation w/ Italian Sal, which he found so cute? I’m not that crazy about Paul’s character, except for the fact that he & Joan revealed that they were once involved (Holy S*@! Batman!) Other posters responded to you (thanks to NEVERNOTTOASTY for standing-up for Ken, & thanks to KBF for speaking-up for Ken’s character, as well), so I won’t repeat their posts, but I’d like to add that Sal has the “man crush” on Ken, who is obviously a typical 60s, oblivious-to-gay-love kind of guy. Plus, Ken is the one who said, “[Peggy’s figure] is like a lobster tail – all the good meat ended-up in the tail.” In S1, for which he got socked by Pete! (And, as one poster reminded me last season, while the ensuing fight was going on, w/ the office guys action sent to the background, the foreground showed Don & Roger waiting for the elevator, chatting, them OBLIVIOUS to what the “office scamps” behind them were doing! (‘Oh, just a little office scuffle! Let’s ignore those boys.’) A classic MM moment if there ever was one! And S3E2, last week, Ken to Peggy’s comment about ”Diet Patio”, “Yes, but you’re not fat anymore.” Ugh, look on Peggy’s face, & silence from all in the room.

@KBF: Ha Ha. You beat me to the first joke of the post. And, what’s your guess for opening character?

@KBF: Thanks for reminding us that Don was a car salesman. You just answered everyone’s question on “How did Don get to be such a great (but maybe not college educated) B.S. artist, & you provided an excellent answer! What better way to become the King of bulls@#!t than to have been a car salesman, in the U.S. of the 50s & 60s!

@Oldfashioned: Welcome. Please stay on The Open Thread with us. Pay no attention to what any other poster wrote about us on the other blogs. It’s simply untrue. (What did you hear?)

@MelbaToast: Please stay w/ us on The Open Thread. I’m DYING to read what you have to post after tonight’s episode. I read ALL the posts, religiously, & try to comment on as many good ones as possible. I’ll keep a sharp eye out for you posts, & those of OLDFASHIONED’s, tonight, & this whole week.

@LaurieB: Laurie, Quick! Join me in welcoming OLDFASHIONED & MELBATOAST, b4 they have a chance to sign-off & start looking for some other blog (that has less blood-letting)!

@LaurieB. Laurie, let’s go to The Kentucky Derby in 2010. In fact, let’s have the whole MM blog make a trip out of it. GREG & FANCYNANCY are independently wealthy. Maybe we could persuade them to rent a luxury touring bus for all of us!

@Nevernottoasty: You’re right, that’s true. I expressed my own SELF-annoyance on that very idea, in last week’s blog. I cannot believe Don would lend William his suitcase, but he did, & for the 1st time, I posted that I think the writers made a big mistake there, in order to allow William to get even w/ Don through blackmail. The whole time I felt that way, I kept thinking, “Well, just because I posted this, it’s not like the writers are going to read it & go, ‘Oh no. ‘racy’ is right. Let’s post a “delete scene”, & let the viewers know we changed our minds about the whole suitcase borrowing scene.” (Thanks for mentioning Little Nell. Dickens is a favorite writer of mine.)

@oldsoul555: You don’t have to wait for tonight’s episode to post. You can speak-up now. I’m interested in anything you have to say.

@oldsoul555: I always think of “Now Voyager” when I think of “the language of smoke”, like the 18th century “language of a lady’s fan.” Thanks for the “smoking language” lesson. Loved it, & will print it, & keep it handy, while watching future MM episodes. Good post.

@rozsie: Date & words (thank-you, by the way) for “My Old Kentucky Home”, but no credit to Stephen Foster?

@dobiegirl, &
@SCFan: I graduated from SUNY @ Albany, so I know beautiful Sarasota Springs well, & have spent a lot of time going-up the Northway to Lake George & Lake Placid (the roller coaster in Lake George used to belong to a 100 year old park in Canada, which was razed for condos. Big part of my childhood destroyed there.) Have you guys ever seen film of Secretariat winning the Belmont? I saw it Live as a kid, & everyone in my family just sat, staring at the TV, bawling & sobbing. It still brings chills down my spine just to remember it. B4 2000 dawned, ESPN aired a special on the Top 50 Athletes of the Millennium (by the way, if anyone knows how I can buy a copy of this ESPN special, I’d appreciate your sharing it w/ me. Going to their website to try & purchase it doesn’t seem to help.), & Secretariat was chosen as one of the 50. Jack Nicholson was interviewed for the special, & he was quoted as saying he was in his house watching the Live airing of the Belmont, & was always glad he watched alone, because he cried like a baby. See it! It’s worth watching by anyone who gets choked-up over horse racing stories. Secretariat was a freak of nature. A locomotive. At autopsy, they discovered that his heart was two & one half times the size of a regular, adult thoroughbred. He was literally a “Superhorse”.

I just popped on figuring we're all gearing up in 1 hour! It's scorching here in LA!-fire and all.
@racy: thx for enjoying the idea. not too many playas, but whoever wins, sorry, I can't provide any prize...well maybe, I have something in mind if I can pull it off! I'm still going w/Pete.

@StepohanieJo: That was meant to say, "What an INspiration!" That must have been a Freudian slip on my part. I was looking at "Aspire" notebooks at BJs yesterday. If I get the big job I'm up for (everyone pray now!), my Mom & I are getting these new ones.

@fancynancy: Terrific "F.U." geeting to Monty! I'm still laughing out loud. So happy you weren't CENSORED! But what's your vote for opening character?

racy...didn't even notice! I was too focused on all those exclamation points! good luck on job.

I know I said I wouldn't post but here goes anyway. I had to get this in before the show starts.
It's just possible that this episode is not about the Kentucky Derby. The story might jump ahead a month or more. Can't wait to see!

Hey, guys! I just wanted to be the first to accept FANCYNANCY’s gracious, & generous, invitation to have all us regular Open Thread bloggers (aka ‘The Clique’) over NEXT Sunday, to her humble, though-no-longer-sublet Danbury, CT apt., in order that we may all enjoy devouring her spectacularly prepared, & presented, mid-day brunch, & early dinner, before settling down in her lovely LR, for a group viewing of next week’s MM episode. NANCY, just print the directions to your home here, & we’ll all arrive en masse, at say what? 7 AM? This will give us all a chance to swim in your fabulous pool, while you and “TheKnight” are busy chopping, flaying & barbequing our delicious first meal! By the way, NANCY, I hope you plan to serve that pimento cheese thing at brunch. That sounded great! Of course, GREG will be the keynote speaker for both culinary events. For brunch, GREG’s topic is entitled: “Beyond the Locker Room: Or, Why For Most Men (Mad or Not), it’s About Validation.” GREG also generously shared w/ me, his dinner topic, as well, “Wingmen in History: Or, Why it’s More than a Military Job Title Mentioned in the Movie ‘Top Gun’!” And, ladies, out of respect for GREG, let’s all agree up front, to leave our sidecars at home. Oh, NANCY, I like my stir-fried veggies a bit spicy. Do you have teriyaki sauce? If not, send “TheKnight” out flying, & let him pick-up the teriyaki sauce they sell in the shop “Spices” on Martha’s Vineyard. Let us know if there is anything any of us in the clique can do to help you! Oh hell, on second thought, forget it. We all want you 2 to do all the work. I think that’s only fair. See everyone at Nancy’s next week!

And, no, Monty. You’re not invited. If you show up, GREG has promised to hold you down in the parking lot, while the rest of us “ugly-looking feminists” kick the “living s$%&t” out of you in front of NANCY’s condominium.

clique? waht clique? There's a clique?

@KBF: Opps, sorry, I not only called you KPF, but I already knew your guess, like mine & my Mom's, was Peggy. Please don't hold this against me. Just excited about the show I guess.

That lipstick of Jane's is the WORST!!

OMG--Peggy is smoking a bone!

And Roger is singing in black face...how gross.

"I'm Peggy Olsen and I want to smoke some marajuana"

perhaps the best line....EVER

I said it aloud twice to my husband!

Jendalessan....I was just going to post the exact same thing. They'll have to go some to beat that line.

Anybody else think Sally grows up to be Drew Barrymore?

The drug dealer is a cross between Tom Cruise & Christian Bale!

KBF- Drew Barrymore!!! Great catch! I was trying to place that face!!

The black face bit was definitely useless and offensive, like Roger's character, but the episode could have cut that and still kept the spirit of the period.

That drug dealer looked just like a kid of Peter Lawford.

Steph--EXACTLY. I even looked it up on IMDb to see if it was Christian Bale, but I thought he looked too different to really be him, so I wasn't sure.

And that scene where he jeers Paul, he also reminded me of Tom Cruise.

The drug friend was definitely a ringer for Cruise. This episode has a Twin Peaks feel to it.

The whole point of the black face was to show how far Roger will go over the edge. If you notice, Don and Pete didn't like it very much.

I did like the idea of Don peeing in car trunks however....

Singing that song in Black face was an insult. Mad Men was one of my favorite shows. You have lost a fan. I will pass this on and seek to organize a boycott of your sponsors...Direct TV, Universal, Clorox, American Express, Canada Dry, Expedia + others.

Did anyone else catch the masterful pairing of the bottle of Old Overholt rye whiskey and Don's mention of living in Pennsylvania's coal country? ("Pennsylvania, by way of Illinois. We lost our farm, ended up in coal country.")

Old Overholt was originally manufactured in PA coal country (under the name "Old Farm Whiskey"). I can't help but think the two references appeared in the same scene on purpose. Cheers from Western PA, Matt Weiner!

I think the Ivy crowd would occasionally do those black face thing to hark back to their college revue days, but really, that was NOT an acceptable thing in the Northeast.

Betty, Betty, Betty...

Even I, the most leftie person here, gets the difference between portraying something offensive as an artistic portrayal of a particular segment of society AND a real person doing a black face in real life and thinking it's funny.

There were so many other choices the writers could have made that would have had the same effect without dragging up such a horrible image.

That man hitting on Betty is VERY hot for an older guy!

What about the "no hats after 5 pm"? The only hat that should be worn after 5 is a little cocktail thing.

I don't question the artistic choices when I get the point that they made.

Did you see that move Ghost World with the black face ad?

I meant movie...

This is a very amusing episode. From Pete and Trudy knowing the full-on Charleston to Roger's blackface to the gymbag-toting Tom-Cruise-meets-Christian-Bale-clone pot dealer (who calles pot "boo")... lord, where to start?

I will bitch. Matt Weiner is supposedly meticulous about continuity but he totally blew it with the drummer playing a modern kit with modern stands and a modern K cymbal. Dude, would you have some guitarist play a Musician's Friend DImebag Darryl pointy guitar? That cymbal blew the cover big time.

All in all, my favorite thing is seeing Sally be an actual character. Children in television and movies are almost always given short shrift and this is good to see. The Brando reference and Joanie's accordion solo are also nice window dressing.

Frank Hogan was not the Attorney General. He was the district attorney of New York County (Manhattan). His office conducted the investigation mentioned briefly on the radio.

The Attorney General (of New York) at the time was named Louis J. Lefkowitz.

"Greg (Joan's husband) wants ER."
Not then. There were no ER residency programs until 1968, when it first became a recognized specialty.
I don't know when Columbia Presbyterian got their first Emergency Medicine residents, but I love pointing out the (MANY) anachronisms in the show.
Demolino

Cuba Libre hangs over the entire episode. OF COURSE! CUBA LIBRE! I worked for Bacardi in the early 90s and the still were in love with it.

I have been an avid fan up till now. This season has no draw. Each episode leaves me asking, "why am I watching this?"

Have they changed writers?

Betty...even a tease when she's pregnant!! She really craves attention! What a hot kiss between she & Don! Pretty good 3rd episode. I would've killed to go to that garden party.

If looks could kill...Greg making Joan sing and play to cover his killing a patient...she was shooting daggers at him.

Wondering if next week is the birth...

Did others notice when Don was in the bar with the guest from the wedding, that the camera was catching his reflection in the mirror - like 2 Dons - symbolism for our 2 Dons...the hidden one and the public one.

There, Don just said it - people think Roger is a fool. He showed how far he'd play the fool tonight by indulging Jane's "I love when he does this" song and makeup.

If Don had caught Betty with another man's hand on her stomach...

Jane is really coming off as not much more than a party girl.

What about the "no hats after 5 pm"? The only hat that should be worn after 5 is a little cocktail thing.

I noticed that, too. I guess since the affair started with the sun shining (before 5, I guess) and ended with the night, the ladies fixed their hair around their hats and kept them on. Only explanation I have.

It's Mad Men's Got Talent!

See Joan sing!

See Roger sing!

See Paul sing!

She Peter and Trudy dance!

See Jane act drunk!

See Peggy get high!

OK, did anyone else think maypole as Don was walking toward Betty at the end? No? How about walking in the ocean? It definitely reminded me of something.

And Peggy's little speech to her secretary was fantastic.

But to me, the performance of the night goes to little Sally when she turned the $5 over. That combination of guilt and fear was amazing.

By KBF on August 29, 2009 6:28 PM

@never not tasty. I was just stating a personal preference. To me, the flashbacks (don in Korean, watching himself being born) are a couple of the least effective scenes of the entire series. Although I will admit to enjoying the flashback to when he was selling cars.

I think Weiner does that for new viewers to catch up a little. He gives them some back story.

I was actually surprised that Betty returned the kiss - I thought she'd go all harpy again on Don.

I agree that this season has no draw. Tonight's episode was a complete yawn. Nothing is happening, and I'm not interested enough to keep predicting or wondering what's on the horizon. The whole 'working weekend' thing was a drag, and the creepiness of the stolen five-dollar bill wasn't enough to keep me coming back.
No real drama between characters, and not enough mystery to be interesting. Get going, already! Enough with the long glances and inuendos.

We won! WE WON!!!!!!! KBF, my Mom & me! Peggy opened the show! We won!!!! I LOVE THIS CONTEST, STEPHANIEJO! YAYYYYYYYY! Ahhhhhhh!
The rest of you posters suck at this contest! Yayyyy for us!!!!! Congratulations KBF!!!!!! Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!

I wish people would not be so nit-picky whenever they think they spot a mistake for the era that Weiner has overlooked. It's like they have an "AH-ha!" moment. I wonder if some are watching for mistakes so they can lambaste Weiner, or watching for entertainment which is what this is supposed to be.

I liked the episode better than the last one but I always think Peggy is so passive-aggressive.

And that guy's hand on Betty's stomach was a tad creepy!

How old is Sally?? She stumbled on only one word. Holy cow! MUST be good schools!! That girl can read!

I wish people would not be so nit-picky whenever they think they spot a mistake for the era that Weiner has overlooked. It's like they have an "AH-ha!" moment. I wonder if some are watching for mistakes so they can lambaste Weiner, or watching for entertainment which is what this is supposed to be.

I liked the episode better than the last one but I always think Peggy is so passive-aggressive.

And that guy's hand on Betty's stomach was a tad creepy!

Some hilarious stuff or me tonight:

"It's Summer and the darkies are all gay." (Guess that explains why I was so happy today.)

And I know it sounds crazy but it's true White folks -- we don't all know each other.

Your Pal,
Lucky Strike

Do you think Don told Pete not to hand out business cards because he thinks country club people are not the people to aspire to?

I'm starting to fret whether Mad Men is going for shock for shock's sake. I argued that the Sal/bellboy scene was in keeping with his character. But Roger in blackface? I just don't see it, unless it;s supposed to show that Don is right, that he is, in fact, foolish. I miss them working. That's when the show has always clicked the most for me.

What a disappointment this season has been! I'm sure it's tough to keep the creative edge for 13 or so episodes, but this show has lost its steam! You can only survive so long on hairdos, clothes and style. This storyline is s o l o n g a n d d r a w n o u t. . . . I keep having the urge to fast forward and get on with it!!!

Please Please, leave the idle pre-show banter out of this thread. Those of us who come here to read reviews of the episode have to muddle through all of your personal bantering before we ever find a thread that actually discusses the the episode. This thread is created to discuss the episode, not for your personal conversations! Join a chat room if you want to chit chat.

@racy....Is there prize money involved?

"I'm Peggy Olsen and I want to smoke some marijuana." Probably my favorite line of the episode!

Random thoughts:
1. Smitty without Kurt, how is this possible? I hope Kurt is still with SC, I'd love to see him again.
2. Pete and Trudy cutting a rug was awesome; they looked so cute together with their silly grins. Nice to see them having a good time.
3. Seems like things between Harry and Jennifer aren't that good, unless they are just awkward hanging around the others from the agency.

Please Please, leave the idle pre-show banter out of this thread. Those of us who come here to read reviews of the episode have to muddle through all of your personal bantering before we ever find a thread that actually discusses the the episode. This thread is created to discuss the episode, not for your personal conversations! Join a chat room if you want to chit chat.

Wow, so many hidden talents!
Roger singing in (cringe-worthy) blackface!
Don bartending!
Pete and Trudy doing a mean Charleston!
Joan singing and playing the squeeze box!

Good episode. I liked the little interplay between Sally and Grandpa. They both knew the other knew, and they just went with it. Man, was Jane hammered. I thought for sure she would hurl at some point. I wonder what magic Peggy is going to come up with in her Mary-Jane induced state? Dr. a bore! If it was up to him that party would have been a complete disaster! You know when you have to force your wife to perform, the party is Bo-Ring!!! Her performance was really awesome though. I think she is starting to realize she is too good for him.

I am having trouble with this site. Signed on, tried to post, post appeared twice, then the site booted me off!

I did like Pete and Trudy's Charleston number. Thought they were cute and did very well. But again, that guy with his hand on Betty's stomach was creepy. It was like something Glen would have done!

I think Sally and Grandpa are going to come to blows over something.

@BettyCrocker-yeah that older Governor's office man is nice. Did Greg kill a patient? Wow, Joan's in for a ride now! Sally is a little doll, good casting with parents like that. KBF-great post, funny!
RACY-was it Peggy, 1st line or something? I'm going to get u a prize...hopefully. Keep u posted. The dance was great..but too long, again. They just can't fill that hour or 50 mins very well!

Roger represents the dying order. Two coronaries and marrying a 20-year-old who writes poems about the wine tasting sweeter. Don hanging out with the Southerner in the bar who won't use rye in an old fashioned (although that is the original spirit for that cocktail.) Jon Hamm shows his LA barman prowess to the detriment of Don (where would Don have learned the muddler? That's city cocktail stuff, man.) Jon was a barman for a long while in the Dawson's creek dearth of parts for such as him.
This is a fun episode, but the focus is going a bit. I blame the weed.

@zabadu....I don't think so. I thought he was insulting Pete, telling him to be a little more classy than to be doing business.

By the way, AMC, this site is ridiculously slow. Let's join the big boys and fix it.

Still having trouble with posting. I keep getting booted off the site, or a message that I cannot connect, and everything is so slow. I am on high speed so I wonder what the problem is.

racy4: Um, that's nice. Huh?

Forgot to add that Jeffrey Tiger Tones drug dealer reminded me of a young Christian Bale.

I loved this episode. Full of shocks and surprises. I thought it had tons of things happening AND foreshadowing of things to come.

So, what is the significance of the guy at the bar, Connie? Are they alluding to Betty having a difficult birth by showing her smoking and drinking all the time ?

KBF: I too am experiencing the slowness of this site. I have been booted off three times. Then I couldn't sign in again. I wonder what's going on.

I thought Betty's dress and her pink bag were great. She looks very good pregnant, and not a lot of women can say that.

The "pot" party went on a little too long, I thought. And again, Peggy is so passive-aggressive this season.

I just watched "Inside Mad Men" and Matt says that Don and Betty actually are wishing they are kissing someone else. Betty likes the country club, Don does not. They want other people.

And I was right about Dr. Rapist: He "commanded" Joan to play and sing to cover his uncomfy feelings about killing a patient. This will not end well.

Next week looks interesting - Kitty and Sal...

Lots of stuff here people:

Great opening dialogue with the gang in a meeting; same opening as last week.
Remember last week in the beginning Harry said he wants to be in on casting with the Bye Bye Birdie thing etc?
This week, Peggy slapped him down regarding that. very interesting. and the girl's mispronounciation of Moliere.
And of course Harry shows up at the party with his wife, all devoted husband but of course was at work all about pretty girl oggling.

Jane vs Joan: Jane won that one, that was great. She said to Joan, "I keep losing weight" wow. bam.
Then did you catch when Jane walks away, she walks away just like Joan does with the ass etc?

Gene said to Don "How's Babylon?"
Remember Babylon?
And later says "Just wait, all Hell's gonna breal loose"

Paul said they're probably drinking mint julips, (for Hanna, Betty served mint julips at the b-day party in season 1).

Paggy's secretary, outside the obvious regarding her, she's still like Peggy was when Peggy was there. The secretary still "gets it" approval or non-approval aside, she knows her role.

We found out Don's geography, Illinois to wetsern PA. Betty is from eastern PA.

The funny yet important thing about the gang getting high, as the alleged progressive more enlightened crowd etc; they engage in the same things everyone else does; competition, conflict, machismo and ego.
But don't dare try to point that out to them.

When Betty was dealing with the older guy shmoozing on her, and Trudy comes out... don't tell me when Betty was walking away with Trudy you weren't thinking Betty would look back at him... and she did. The whole "will she look look back" thing is so great. You were thinking it, werent ya?

For people talking about possible parallels between Betty and the First Lady, there's another reference: "Oh you and the First Lady".

Ok how great was this:

Harry's wife: Suddenly Jennifer is now playing the role of Sterling Coo wife. She wants to go talk to the work gang and even says "I'll talk" (much like Betty, 'is this where I talk, or I don't talk' regarding being the business wife).

Then when Pete and Trudy are dancing, as much as we are all...where did this come from, to me, I thought it wasn't about Pete and Trudy, but about Harry's wife. She was rather jealous about the whole thing. A great emphasis was there when she got slightly plunked by Pete and Trudy dancing, like happens to anyone else who has been in a boozing situation and people start dancing. The visual was on purpose.

I think it's another avenue to be opened later on...

I loved the photography of Betty standing alone and Don walking to her at the end, that was great.

Old Fashioned: THought that guy at the bar was strange and I really couldn't follow his line of patter - and I lost interest in it. Then, thankfully, he disappeared.

When the staff were getting 'high', was that the word they used back then? My Mom would say she felt a bit high if she had a cocktail. I'm not a 60's child, but does anybody know if they used that phrase? Just wondering.

When are they going to disclose that Bobby is now mute?

as a woman, should I boycott the show for all the rampant sexism? no, it is a tv show, showing how ridiculous things were and how far we have come (or have yet to come)

Funny how, in the end, it was Gene was the one who treated his 'little girl' the best. After the whole big show about the $5, he didn't push it as he knew Sally was sorry. Too bad Greg, Don, Roger and Paul & Smitty don't have the same tact.

The "first lady" comment was made at Joan's party, not Betty's.

Does Roger really love Jane? If Jane's depth of character really as shallow as it seems, then I can only conclude Roger is going through a mid-life crisis. Is Don right? Is Roger foolish?

@Stephanie.....Actually, if I remember my old Mad magazines, which is where I learned everything about popular culture, people often referring to getting drunk as "getting stoned." Not sure when "high" came into vogue, though.

Nokomie,FL; Somehow though, I think Gene and Sally are going to have a scene that is not so positive. With his Dementia apparently increasing, I think there is trouble in the not too distant future where he is concerned.

@KBF-stop it!! I can't stop laughing!!

Zabadu: The show does indeed look interesting next week judging form the previews.

How many Oh, my God moments did this episode have? I loved it, from beginning to end. Peggy was amazing. Hate her new secretary. Loved Carla - she is one smart cookie and boy, did she just want to haul off and smack that old white geezer.

Little Sally was wonderful. Hate the way Betty dresses her, however. That nightgown was ugly.

Gee, once that baby is born, how long do you think it will be before Betty starts cruising the bars again?

Loved the Happy Rockefeller mention. I remember the scandal when they got married.

Don looks like he's ready to explode. I thought that since Episode 1 this season. I'm not sure how long he can keep pretending that he wants to be the happy father and husband.

KBF: my comment re to Bobbie comment. Thx for "high" info, but I'm still curious.

I LOVED Pete and Trudy's Charleston, btw!

Considering this is 1963, definitely no time for blackface.

Peggy will probably be next to play musical secretaries.

And this big fancy wingding was all for the new wifey. He's keeping up with the Joneses for Jane -- I doubt very much if Roger and Mona ever threw parties like those. (This marriage won't end well)

KBF:..laughing at Bobbie comment. thx for pot info, but I'm still curious.

Wonthebattle - You're probably right. Gene and Sally are bonding right now, which is a perfect setup for some major drama later on.

@KBF: Bobby is actually just an alien boy. What a crummy part he has!!

@wonthebattle: It's still interesting to me!!

@zerelda: I found all the subtleties fascinating this episode...a look here, a comment there...Carla was great! I think Betty will be out cruising as much as Don this season.

"I'm Peggy Olsen and I want to smoke some marijuana!"
best phrase ever!

...but I would say the show is losing its steam. the stories are kind of boring now - a bit disappointing, compared to the first two seasons where I was addicted.

Zerelda: No offense, but I don't quite understand why so many are so hard on Betty. I thought she looked great in that dress tonight with her pink coat and purse, and she seemed to genuinely be having a good time (until she had to pick Roger's wife off the ground from her drunken stupor). Why would you assume she is going to "cruise the bars?" She had one "cruise" last season. I don't know that this means she is going to go "Looking for Mr. Goodbar." Wish people would cut her a little slack. She is VERY pregnant, married to a husband she knows habitually cheats, and with her father, who has Dementia. She seems to be (this season anyway) the character everyone loves to stomp on.

Peggy annoys me. She is passive-aggressive. And I am not fond of Roger (especially after his black-face routine).

Gene makes me nervous. I keep thinking about the time he felt up Betty and am worried about him being alone with his granddaughter.

Zabadu: Yes, to me too, and as I stated, it looks interesting next week.

@madmensuze: All the more reason Roger looks foolish for doing that. Did you catch his "I did this once at home with shoe polish and she loved it" comment? He's in complete midlife crisis mode. This will not last.

Neither will Don and Betty. I think once that baby is born, both of them will be off and running...

Laura: I think something will happen with Gene and Sally, but I don't know if it will be of a sexual nature. The sooner Gene is out of the house the better for the Drapers. Someone as unpredictable as he is could really cause problems.

Early at the party, Betty tells Don she wants to dance. Then, later on, she doesn't want to. Was there something to read into this, other than pregnant women might be uncomfortable dancing? I couldn't tell if somehow her desire to be with Don changed after she met the government man.

@KBF: Don't ask me. This contest is STEPHANIEJO's baby, we just won the damn thing! Yayyyyyy! Congratulations again! You are the best guesser, KBF! I know, because my Mom & I are the best guessers, too!!!! Hooray!!!!! Hooray for all 3 of us! We're the best!! Yay!!!!!

And when Don said "Everbody thinks you[re foolish" maybe it's starting to hit Roger what he's gotten himself into.

@wonthebattle: Betty was letting a strange man touch her. She watched him all night. She WAS having fun, Don was not. She didn't care that Don wasn't having a good time.

As I said before, in the Inside Mad Men video for this episode, even Matt says they both wished they were kissing other people.

Again, I hope that Weiner does not turn Betty into a "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" type as some have suggested. That would really cheapen things. I don't want to see this turned into a total soap opera - although it may be headed that way. I still think it's good and I will continue to watch, but I have to admit I don't think the quality is quite up to par as in Seasons one and two. Especially Season one. There was something about season one that sparkled. I also think that too many superfluous characters are added in nothing more than walk-ons. That guy at the bar at the Derby party that don spoke with was odd. I could not follow his line of patter and was happy when he exited the scene.

who is the actor in the bar scene with don where he makes the old fashions? It's driving me crazy.

@racy & kbf: who won it? I thought the staff was the opener, or really that girl auditioning. It was just an idea, NO CASH! lol :) Congrats!

Zabadu: Yes, she did but since Betty has always more or less gone along with the men in her life, I took it as she did with this one but was not necessarily enjoying it. It did not seem sexual to me (for her). I understand what Weiner stated, but as I said, I hope they don't turn Betty into a "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" type. I guess I am not as hard on Betty (or women in general) as many seem to be on Betty. I actually like her!
Peggy is the one who to me, seems passive-agressive this season and I don't really care for her. I think Trudy and Pete are a cute couple and hope their marriage works out. Their dance number was cute!

Watching the replay, I'm struck by what a tragic figure Joan is. Roger used her. She excelled at reading the TV scripts, but was cast aside with nary a thought. Her fiance raped her. And her dream of being provided for by a rich doctor took a noticeably bad turn tonight when it appears that she makes more than he does and he might, in fact, be a quack. To me, she's incredibly compelling. I keep waiting for her to triumph, but I don't think she's going to.

This site is so slow and full of so many glitches this evening, I think I will wait until tomorrow to post anything else. It takes forever to post even one thing.

Upon second viewing:

Isn't Peggy's little diatribe about the hammock etc, the exact thing as Pete's diatribe to her about the cabin etc???

Jane had a good line after offending Betty and clinging to Don, "I should have eaten something"

Near the end right before Don goes to Betty when she's standing alone, Roger and Jane slow dancing, but to a very sad and lonely sax with no one around. That's them.

@wonthebattle: Betty was enjoying it. Like Greg said, she looked back at him while walking away. Also, if Don had seen that....

@KBF: Yes, Joan has taken the tragic route. I hope they redeem her by killing Dr. Rapist off. He's a quack, she's in the dark about that - now she knows he won't get chief resident. I think it will all start imploding when he gets passed over...

One more thought: One of the strengths of Season 2 was the introduction of new characters that really drove the plot. I'm missing Duck Phillips and the Barretts greatly. Jane and Gene just don't pack the same narrative punch, and the British guys are just plain boring.

Upon second viewing:

Isn't Peggy's little diatribe about the hammock etc, the exact thing as Pete's diatribe to her about the cabin etc???

Jane had a good line after offending Betty and clinging to Don, "I should have eaten something"

Near the end right before Don goes to Betty when she's standing alone, Roger and Jane slow dancing, but to a very sad and lonely sax with no one around. That's them.

Zabadu: Oh, well, whatever. Guess I didn't see that or didn't analyze it that much. From reading these posts, seems everyone sees something different in each of these characters. I wouldn't mind looking like Betty Draper, that's for sure (or at least the actress who plays her). Anyway, this site is glitching for me and it's taken me forever to post each thing so all for tonight.

OK, I lied. I have another thought. I think Don is wrong. I think Roger really is happy. Jane may not be, but Roger is. And I thought that was a pretty sharp rejoinder he gave Don, about how great it is that you can choose your own guests. I don't think Don has to worry about being invited back.

Not that Don would care. What good can Roger do him anymore?

I love the foreshadow of the book, "Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire". When Sally reads outload it kind of mimics the madmen universe and when the grampa says, "don't worry sally pretty soon all hell is going to break loose", that is telling us things are going to be changing in 1963

@KBF: I also caught that Betty told Don she wanted to dance, then later she doesn't. We two are so cool. We know more than anyone else about the show! Yawn.....

I don't know if you've covered it in other threads, but Harry's smoking...

@racy: I saw that too, but since Betty changes her mind/mood at the drop of a hat, I didn't think it was worth mentioning!! :)

Why is everyone making separate threads?

The guy who came on to Betty. I hope she has an affair with him. I thought he was fine. And well-connected too.

thoroughly enjoyable episode. lot's of humor and suspense. not life and death suspense, but I was on the edge of my seat a couple of times.I really wanted Peggy to smoke pot with the boys, when she said "I;m Peggy Olson and I want to smoke some marijuana." my son ,his girlfriend and I all cheered and laughed. A great moment in TV history IMHO. I was also tense in the Gene, Carla, and Sally scenes. I was glad it resolved as well as it did. I dont think Gene or Carla went to far with their thoughts. She's tough and he is a pretty good guy when lucid, and I thought he was lucid for most of the episode. Pretty sharp catch on the missing $5. he never accused Carla and I think he suspected Sally early on. All my kids are boys, never had a daughter, but little Sally is absolutely adorable. The fact that she smokes,drinks, and now steals reminds me of how I was at about the same age in time. I was much sneakier and got away with it, but what a scene she delivered fighting back the tears as she approached the table for dinner. and Carla chimed in at just the right time.
We also had three parties including the people working, and there was singing at all three by cast members. Joan great job I don't think any of it was dubbed but will watch her accordion playing again. When I polled the folks I was watching it with wich party they preferred of the three the pot party came in first. The only thing I disliked was that creepy beaurocrat touching Betty's belly and her reaction.or non reaction i was also hoping Don would show up, old fashioned in hand, punch that guy in the face, and not spill a drop.

@Zabadu Because some of us find it easier to keep track of topics we wish to discuss by using individual threads rather and combing through a massive one :) Personal preference.

Hi everyone. This is my first post because I thought this episode was great! Every character had something to do that added to their unique personalities on the show (well, except Sal and Ken). Peggy likes a little pot (and she looked really pretty in that red outfit), Pete and Trudy could DANCE (fun to watch, and they looked actually HAPPY), Joan seethed while singing that great song), little Sally felt both fear and guilt in getting that $5 back to her grandpa), Betty is ready for an affair--and Don opened up to a stranger about his upbringing. He can't do that with anyone but strangers. Sad.

I haven't even mentioned Roger, Joan, and Paul, but this episode forwarded their story lines, too.

People on here are already complaining that the season has no focus. C'mon folks--it's only been three episodes!!

I love Mad Men!

Tonight's theme: Old married to Young; Old making way for the Young; Old co-existing alongside the Young -

Roger and Jane
Peggy and her Secretary
Grandpa and Sally
Don and the older party guest at the bar
Joan/husband and Boss/wife

And Pete&Trudy were the absolute antithesis - old money wanting to preserve that way of life when the 'Babylon' days were ending - dancing the Charleston in a tent under the stars was straight from the Great Gatsby - another halcyon era that came to an end....

More great historical research by the writers. the businessman Don meets in the country club bar says he is "Connie," and was born in San Antonio, NM. That has to be Conrad Hilton. I guess Don will get the Hilton account in a future episode.

Like so many marriages, Joan's shows how much better and smarter she is than her spouse. I love Joan and want her married to Roger because they're equals (although his blackface number was so repellent) and he's no rapist. She's married a man who isn't as smart as she, but I have to say, I liked that she told him to be quiet if he didn't want an argument.

Some great articles...

http://blog.zap2it.com/ithappenedlastnight/2009/08/mad-men-peggy-smokes-pot-but-thats-not-the-most-important-part.html

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/08/mad_men_my_old_kentucky_home_r.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE57U09A20090831

Wow, 63Chevy, great research!

@Llama: Then why do they go into other threads and post the same comments they make a separate thread for?

I like the thoughts that nikita_ava has. It reminds me of the last episode about Penn Station and Madison Square Garden: Out with the old in with the new.

I liked this episode better than the first, not as much as last week. Sometimes I felt like I was stoned watching it. In the late 60's, it was stoned or high, don't know about 1962. We did stuff clothes into the cracks under the doors in the dorm when getting "high" to hide the odor. I thought the Charleston dance at the party was a nice touch. I vaguely remember 1920's "nostalgia" at that time, much like kids wearing tie-dyed t-shirts now as 60's nostalgia. I think Joan is realizing that her husband married her to "get ahead"--the comment made by the older woman about what a wonderful asset she is. She knows she's too good for him. As someone else commented, I worry about Grandpa and the little girl being alone, after what he did to Betty last season....Loved the last scene of Roger and Jane dancing, Don walking away, walking up to Betty...surprised that they embraced and kissed. That politician will be back to get Betty sometime in the future...

One more comment, then I'm done, I swear - Don and Betty at the end dancing - Don dressed in black against that dark backdrop and Betty all in white - they looked like the yin/yang black/white symbol - opposites that somehow balance out - and Don practically invisible in that scene was very apropo- a 'shadow' man who knows where he came from, but isn't sure who he is....

@Zabadu I can only think or one or two people doing that. We'll live ;)

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire...
it seemed to be about the self made man, the women's duties to keep them looking good, something Jane is failing at. Roger and Jane seem to be ringing in the casual, less stuffy lifestyles. The others stand in contrast holding on to formalities. Timing is everything when it comes to women in the workplace. Peggy's secretary is loyal and staying up late in the office with her but it will never take her anywhere, she is too old. Peggy has a huge future ahead of her and the brains at just the right time.

Roger's politically-inappropriate black face song must be part of the Derby theme, then... and the reference to Jackie's pregnancy ( she lost the baby later in the summer of 1963 ...his name was Patrick ) when Betty says " she looks better than I do " ...
I like all these references and being reminded about the specifics about life in 1963... there was a huge gulf developing between the generations ( but not this younger generation ...they even know how to charleston ...the twist had arrived but would not have been played at a dance like this. That all changed over the next couple of years...

this is the way the world end 3x
we get it , your educated good scene with Peggy coming up with a great add idea for the rooftop. Not a big Peggy fan before this episode. She may have won me over and is turning a corner. Smoke more pot and move to the village Peggy.When she tells Olive she is going to get to do everything you want for me I'm going to be fine Olive, she is declaring it to her Mom in absentia. another great scene. this episode is loaded.

@Llama: I can show you four or five. Oh well.

I love this show, but was totally surprised and disappointed to see the black face skit at the wedding. It didn't add anything to the show, it simply made me think twice about watching it now.

@Hobocode Love your thoughts about Peggy and her mom. I loved Peggy from the very first and things are only getting better and better for her. Joan is not so lucky. But then she put all her faith into a man, not herself. And like some of you said, it's Joan who is the smart one in that marriage.

I am not worried about Grandpa Gene molesting Sally. The incident with Betty happened because he confused Betty with his late wife, probably because Betty looks the way he remembers his wife looking when they were young. Dementia and Alzheimers does not automatically turn one into a pedophile. When confused, he probably thinks Sally is Betty as a child.

I am, however, wondering if Don and Betty advised Carla about Gene's condition. It would have been a kindness to both of them had they done so.

The season is moving a bit slow but it's also been carefully crafted. In tonight's episode, the racism theme is woven through Carla and Glen's kitchen spat, Roger's blackface, and even the lyrics to "My Old Kentucky Home," a song written in 1893.

It was interesting to watch the character reactions to Roger's stunt -- they represent a range of attitudes and tell us who will thrive in the coming years and who may not, who will embrace old traditions and who will reject them.

I'm also more forgiving of the slow pace because we all know the JFK assassination is coming up, which will provide ample fodder to really shake things up. Also, there are parallels with the pregnant characters and Jackie Kennedy, whose newborn will die two days after birth in early August.

I loved the first Peggy line about marijuana, but the "I am so high" line made me laugh hardest.

Trivia: Chateaugay won the derby that year. He also won the Belmont, but placed in the Preakness, so no Triple Crown.

@Zerelda, thanks. My dad had Alzheimer's and it doesn't turn you into a pedophile. If anything were to happen to the kids it will be because Gene is still driving, or if he has a "who are you" episode.

@Tish: Welcome, and welcome to your positive words.

@StephanieJo: Yes, we used the word "high" in 1963 and even in the 1950s, mostly about drinking. We also used the terms zonked, stoned, and smashed out-of-his/her skulls.

@MadmenSuze: You said you didn't think they would do blackface at a private party in the early 60s. There was a scandal in my town in the 1970's that a private party was held above a bar in the heart of town. The party was in April and the people at the party were dressed in Nazi costumes. They were celebrating Hitler's birthday. The courthouse was across the street and most of the customers that frequented that bar were Jewish lawyers. Some of the offenders moved out of the country afterwards.

After two so-so episodes, for me season three officially started tonight! And I think the women of Mad Men have become waaaaay more interesting than the men:

Peggy - It started in the last couple episodes of season two, but I am just loving this woman! Smart, confident, ambitious and horny. It's a treat to watch her blossom and grow with every episode. Obviously this chic is going places and knows it.

Joan - All grown-ass woman! So damn sexy, even when she's not trying be. (that body, that dress, an accordion, singing in French -- oh my God!) But her unavoidable Coke bottle figure is doing her a disservice when it comes to getting respect. She's smart and talented, but apparently no male can see it because she's all hooters and hips. How long will it take her to realize she's with the wrong man and get out? She's a horrific tragedy waiting to happen.

Betty - Who knows what's going to happen with her? And for me that's what's so fascinating. She is a person who despite the pretty packaging -- I fear is not that kind on the inside. She's a lousy mother, a bored housewife, a jealous, suspicious and vindictive woman, and I get the feeling she's about six months away from becoming the female Don Draper. So beautiful yet so unlikeable.

Jane - It's not a question of IF she will be the ultimate demise of Roger -- it's only a question of exactly how and when. Her behavior at the office and at the party tonight was only a teaser. No doubt this train wreck will be fabulous to watch.

So who cares about Don and the boys? This season it's all about the ladies for me. (And did I mention they're all pretty easy on the eyes?)

Your Pal,
Lucky Strike!

review of 3.3 ... Gibbon, blackface, and Eliot

@wasthere: What did you say for marijuana, though? Sounds fun the way u describe drinking!
MW is def planting something in our heads for Sally & Granpa, not nice being his sickness & using a child. I hope they don't go anywhere too far, but they are reaching for shock value!

@adamx thanks for the info on the book sally is reading to Grandpa, and the parralell. all hell is definitely going to break loose as Gene says.
@KBF I don;t know if I would call Joan tragic yet. It is sad to see this talented woman,so good as Harrys script reader, very talented and scocially adept,the way she entertained on accordion, a very sexy performance, yet she was able to shoot a scathing look at Dr. Inept.Joan may still figure things out before it is to late. I hope she dumps him and becomes a cabaret singer.
@flakyfoont, you are right about Roger being out of touch with the changing times and@BammaBelle why are you offended by a show which portrays bad behavior in a negative way. Don and others were definitely uncomfortable with Rogers routine. I don't think Jewish people blame the director or writer of world war 2 films for portraying Nazi's committing atrocities. these things happenned, don't shoot the messenger.

Quick thoughts on tonight:
Favorite lines: Don’s “don’t start handing out your business card” and Peggy’s “Paul makes me sleepy.”

On Betty and the creepy hand older guy: Betty was looking forward to this party, so much so that she bought a new dress and looked stunning, (although she couldn’t acknowledge a compliment from anyone, not even Sally). She arrives at the party and for the first time in …well…ever, we see a genuine smile from her and she says “it’s beautiful” . Plus she says she wants to dance and even to stay for food (contrary to Miss Melba Toast last week). My take on this is that this whole country club scene is Betty’s idea of perfection, as she mentioned a couple of weeks ago. Therefore, she’s attracted to creepy hand older guy because he represents Roger and what Roger and Jane have, and what she wants. And did you notice how, when older guy asked what it’s like to be pregnant she says she doesn’t think about it much, other than it’s uncomfortable? Really? Because she sure uses her pregnant “condition” to get out of any uncomfortable conversation with Don. She’s still bitter that she’s pregnant in the first place because she feels like it trapped her in to staying in the marriage.

On the other hand, Don’s skin’s crawling the whole time at the country club. He can’t stand all the fakes(ironic, I know) and foolishness and wants to leave almost as soon as he arrives.

On Joanie : Loved that she blew smoke in Jane’s face. You could tell she was kind of thinking as Jane walked away “that was supposed to be me” , but then she feels better about the situation when she sees her husband take his shirt off—Roger can’t compete with that. However it’s short lived vindication because we see that Greg’s going down and Joan will have to be the breadwinner in that marriage. Joan’s the epitome of the Enjoli “I can bring home the bacon, stir it up in a pan…” girl, heck, she even plays an instrument. BTW, how many of you guessed the accordion before she brought it out? I knew it had to be that, and she was totally embarrassed by it. It was telling that she played a French song –(where and why in her past did she have to use that talent? ) I’m afraid Joan’s headed for some rough times .
On Gene and Sally: Gene had Sally’s number the entire time. I think he just wanted to see how far Sally would allow him to blame others before she confessed, which the 3 of them (Carla, Sally and Gene) all knew she was doing when she presented the money in the kitchen. Calling her in his room to read again was Gene’s way of offering forgiveness, something I’m not sure Sally’s experienced at all from her mom. And of course there was the book itself that Sally was reading … chock full of symbolism there. I'm not convinved Gene has Alzheimer's. His short term memory seems fairly intact to me. My mom has it and STM was the first thing we noticed. He's more dillusional or experiencing hallucinations, which don't appear until later in Alzheimer's. I wonder what other drugs he's taking beside Coumadin.

I think the writers meant the blackface to be offensive to show how ridiculous Roger has become. Even Pete was offended.

The Black face was a take-off on Al Jolson. Why did he do the black-face thing?

Also ...I've got the structure of the writing...it's a 4 story-line structure not the usual three:
1. garden party Sterling and Jane Betty and politician
2. work/pot weekend
3. grandpa and the 5.00usd
4. Joan and doctor party./..
keeps things interesting.

Bettys dress -- She wears it the whole episode and it's so grogeous it's got to be a centerpiece.
we see her in white, tying her bow so preciously in the mirror while her maid attends to children and father downstairs -- then it cuts to joan in black setting a table (considered to be maid's work at the time). She's in black, yet it's not chic -- it's a black slip and a bit pleb for what we're used to seeing Joan in. And her hubbie has on a white T and khakis as he fights with her over the intricacies of place settings (considered women's work at the time) -- despite that stroke of effeminacy -- this is all very streetcar named desire.
additionally -- to carry over an arch from last episode -- peggy's look is forshadowing a controversial movie of yet 5 years later -- Rosemary's Baby. The pale lips, the short (or, here, pulled back) hair. I read someone's take on his creepy grass molesting last episode as Don's realization of what's to come (embodied in the barefoot teacher dancing amid the pagan hedonist backstory of May Day).
Princeton Drug Dealer -- Does anyone else see a hint of Christan Bale in American Psycho. Not just the looks but the tragedy of a white male upper class privilege gone awry?
Lastly -- I nearly died from Vincent Kartheiser's dance moves. Crap. I know it was all choreographed to the hilt but that guy could be the most entertaining screen presence of his generation (could you love to hate his whiny crybaby-ness more?)
Anyone else notice that the couch in Peggy's office is the same one she got impregnated on? I enjoyed the Ophelia-esque quality of the shot of her lying, staring at the ceiling.
Roger's black face -- Did anyone get chills at that accuracy of this depiction of race in America, or at least the Long Island country club set in 1963? And, duly noted in an era of desegregation, we get shots of the underlings' forced laughing/self-consciously at Roger's spectacle. This leads to my favorite of Don's burns of the night, Roger: "What did I do to get under your skin? hmm? ... My mother was right. It's a sin to be conspicuously happy." Don: "No one thinks you're happy." Damn! I love it when Don whips it out and puts it on the table for someone. Happens every episode at least once.
Chevy62 -- Thank you for the research. I said the same thing to my hubbie watching this episode. "He's going to see Connie across the conference room table in the near future." Little did I know, it was Conrad Hilton. (Whose political statemet about being a republican with a Jackass head w a Republican body comment is a bit confused I think? someone can clear that up for me. From what I understand Conrad Hilton was quite a philanthropist and populist so the characterization in terms of our current political climate is accurate possibly but in the 60s Dems weren't consideredc to be populists?)
also nikita -- great reading esp on the old money thing and Pete and wifey!!
All right -- on to my third gin and tonic.

...and "I'm so high"...yes it was used like" I'm flying...I'm flying"...
Love the use of names...Graves for the drug dealer...Olive for the secretary.

@stephaniejo@wasthere, as a young musician in the early seventies, i played with some of the "old cats" and smoked dope with them too. some of the guys who went back to the thirties and forties, told me "getting high" and"getting stone" were both used to describe alcohol based levels of intoxication. Consequently the guys who were smoking weed used the same terms to describe where their head was at, so the squares would just assume the user was drunk.if you listen to old swing records, even some Ray Charles old tunes you could catch these references

Gene is going senile because of strokes. It's not Alzheimers, but both often get lumped under the title dementia.

I wonder if "Jeffrey the Dope Pusher" was purposely "doing" Tom Cruise (in "Risky Business") or if it's just my imagination......hmmm

And yes, as a poster has already stated, he looked like a cross between TC and Christian Bale....

I bet Greg is the first one there when the "Code Pink" alert goes out! The ass. Joanie sure bailed him out, didn't she?...Such a class act, stuck with that no-class jerk....sad.

I love the color scheme in Joan's apartment. I remember that palette in the early '60's...very evocative. Loved her appliqued black/red dress, too....not to mention her spiffy red accordion! Ooo La La La indeed! What a dame!

Until Roger proved what a total fool he really can be(the blackface fiasco on stage with Jane) I was hoping he and Joanie could eventually get back together. Now I hope she can find someone worthy of her....the sooner she dumps the rapist (or he conveniently gets run over by a taxi) the better!

Loved Pete and Trudy's Charleston! Even ending with a "dip"!

I agree, z, I don't think poor Carla was told about Gene's situation and didn't know not to take his snippiness personally....she's going to get fed up and quit, wouldn't blame her one bit....then Betty will realize how much work it is to deal with her dad and the Parker Home William mentioned will start to look better and better....

On to episode 4.....can't wait!

@zabadu: Thanks for the article links. Good stuff. Love the point that Roger, Pete and Betty are all old money social scene which explains why they’re so comfortable and in their element. Notice Pete and Trudy clear the floor with a killer Charleston, not a killer Twist, symbolizing Pete’s similarity more to Roger than to Don.
Also love pointing out the double standard Roger displays when he falsely assumes Don’s hitting on his wife, as Roger once did to Betty.
In reading over my last post it looks like I’m a Betty Basher, but I actually like Betty, so please don’t anyone send me hate posts . I will say that she didn’t do a lot to help her case this week for all those who ARE Betty bashers.

My favorite dialogue of the episode-
Gene: You people, you think money is the answer to every problem.
Don: No, just this particular problem.
Amazing research by you true maddicts out there about the “Connie” gentleman whom with Don has an Old Fashioned.
And Peggy’s speech to Olive was PRICELESS…

Also, I agree with an earlier post that we need to keep the banter strictly about the episode just aired. It is such a pain to have to use this website and to have to scroll through all the preshow chatter – UGH! Use a separate post topic, perhaps titled “Predictions for episode ( )”.

I think Carla totally knows what's going on with Gene, but she just refuses to put up with his racist crap.

Jane drunk? Are we certain that’s why she was collapsing? Where are all you posters that have been predicting her premature demise anytime now?

@zabadu: I really thought Betty was waiting for Don to come kiss her. That’s why she stood there alone, so dramatically; so he would have to search for her.

@zabadu: Zab, I agree w/ KBF, I thought Don was insulting Pete when he told him not to give out his business card. Always, contempt for Pete. It reminded me of “The Jet Set”, when Don told Pete (while they were standing in front of the hotel pool),”Do you want to be on vacation? I can arrange that.”

@zabadu: See why we need you in pre-episode posting? Last episode blog, you drew a BOLD line to let other posters know where the pre-episode chatter was ending. Don’t listen to these people, post WHENever you want! (Did you catch my quotes by AMC? They chose my last posting to YOU on the S3E2 blog!)

@zabadu, &
@zerelda: See, by not pre-episode posting you guys missed STEPHANIEJO’s “Which MM Character Will Appear In The Episode Opening” contest! Now, b4 the party next Sunday, get on & guess on The Open Thread S3E4, or is it E5?

@zerelda: I remember the Happy Rockefeller scandal, too. Is she dead? This dates both of us.

@BAMABELL: You can sign on as whatever new “handle” you choose, but we still know it’s you, Monty.

@sab4ever: I have shocking news for you…you’re a member of this clique. Please try & keep up w/ the program, will you?

@Betty Crocker: And when you repeated the line twice to your husband, did he ask you why you had changed your name to Peggy Olson?

And, is Peggy the sister of Daily Planet’s copy boy, Jimmy Olson?

@Betty Crocker: Ooooo, I agree. I like the guy who was hitting big time on Betty (‘You smooth talker you.’) Was he one of the big honchos that Pete pointed-out at the start of the party?

@StephanieJo: You’re so technical! Okay, how about this: No one guessed Paul or Phil, & Peggy appeared third, so we 3 won by default? (Did you catch Wonthebattle’s post, wherein he or she is clueless about the contest? Sheeesh! What a dork.)

@StephanieJo: “I would have killed to attend that garden party on Long Island”. You & me both! Did you catch the ring of red roses around the post-hung light, which was positioned on the middle pole? My kind of party! You know what I just realized? I had to go out this afternoon to The Dollar Store, & I saw some early displayed Christmas wrapping paper that was striped green & white. I thought to myself, “I have wrapping paper at home. Why am I so drawn to this?” I bought a roll, & only now it hits me: We have been posting all week, only after rolling past the photo of Don & Pete standing at the garden party, between green & white stripe outdoor drapes. I’ll bet that’s it! (I’m sooooo suggestible.)

@StephanieJo: Steph, just give KBF & me the prize $$$ when you see us at FANCYNANCY’s Labor Day party, next Sunday.

@StephanieJo, &
@KBF: What about “tight”? (KBF, I can’t believe you confessed to reading MAD Magazine, especially on the Mad Men blog. What part of Mad Magazine was your favorite?)

@StephanieJo: And, Steph, don’t tell KBF to stop making you laugh. You’re just jealous because he chose Peggy as his guess.

@flakyfoont: I missed a reference to Brando? Whoa, let me know where that occurred! Now, please repeat after me, “Always watch Mad Men twice. Always watch Mad Men twice.”

And, “please shut-up” to everyone who is out there laughing at me!

@flakyfoont: You “blame the weed”? You are too funny. Still laughing!

@MADtini: Two Don’s in the bar mirror reflection? Priceless! I missed that for sure. Great catch! Hope you win the MM prize this week for that comment! Thank God I can come to this site after viewing, so I can learn what actually went on. My hat is off to ya! (And, not just because it’s after 5 PM.)

@KBF: You “liked combination of Sally’s guilt & fear” – Yes, and what about her great right arm? She could pitch for the Yankee’s!

@KBF: Roger in black face reminded me of the black elevator operator at SC, when in S1, Roger & Joanie are talking about seeing “The Apartment”, & Roger says, “Are you kidding? Did you buy a girl operating an elevator in NY?” No, Roger knew (believes) that elevator operators in 1963 were obviously black men. I don’t see Republican Roger riding south on Freedom Fighter buses, waiting for Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, to rescue them. I’m certain he thinks all Civil Rights discussions are ridiculous.

@KBF: Bobbie opens next week’s episode.

But will he speak? Or will he just be carried out of the room by Don?

@Childofthe60s: “Leave out the pre-show banter!” Monty, I asked you to stop posting under pseudonyms!

@Marie: Try reading the 10 comments that are posted above yours. That way you won’t be a double-poster.

@wonthebattle: Well, I’m certain the MM writers didn’t put Roger in blackface in an attempt to make him look more foolish than he already is, or to drain every last bit of respect any viewers might still carry for him. (NOT!)

@MadMenSuze: Well, it’s pre Civil Rights America, 1963. As I commented to KBF above, I don’t see Republican Roger riding south on Freedom Fighter buses, waiting for Attorney General, Robert Kennedy, to rescue them. I’m certain he thinks all Civil Rights discussions are ridiculous.

@Greg: I loved the ending, too.

When Jane is pawing Don, and Roger sys what's going on.....

The irony that is Roger...

it's similar to Roger hitting on Betty in season 1, yet oposite.

@gimletgal thank you for your concise and accurate account of the stolen $5 incident. I was getting at the same thing at about12:25 am, you stated it more clearly than I was able to, and more completely.Gene is an experienced parent and handled it well. I also sided with him when Don and Betty offered to give him the 5 bucks. I also agree with@zerelda, the drapers should have clued Carla in to Gene's condition. they probably want as few people to know as possible. amazing the things that families keep secret. i am just finding things out now from extended family about things that happenned 50 years ago. straying off topic, sorry. But poor Carla not knowing was really trying hard to find that 5 spot. I think when Sally gave up looking so quickly, Gene had her. veteran move, by a totally with it Grandpa at the time. I hope,but doubt that having kids around would help Gene stay focused and needed for something. sometimes that is all it takes to help an older person.they need to be useful or busy. of course that would be to nice for most tv viewers

This has probably been mentioned before, but I'm noticing that the accounts people are republicans and the creatives don't state a political allegiance except for Paul.

I speculated before, just wondering if there are any accordion players in here who could confirm if Joan is actually playing the accordion, my guess is yes

I'm in the camp of those for whom this episode was not a favorite, but realistically they can't ALL be winners and one sort of off-center episode will certainly not keep me from coming right back and watching again next week.

I loved the part of the accordion scene where Joan and Greg made eye contact. While she continued to sing, you could see in their close-ups that her eyes were shooting daggers at him and his eyes were saying, "Don't make a scene" - at least that's how I read it.

Aside to the captioners: At about 8 minutes in when Pete is leaving the group after having just told them they have to work all weekend, he says, "So long, gentles", as in gentlemen and gentlelady. He did not say, "So long, GENTILES." LMAO! Also, not long after, Cosgrove refers to Pete as "to the manor born" - it's not "to the manner born".

Is this the first time we've seen Olive?

As hoped and expected, the first two episodes, even the beginning of this episode, were all a set-up. Then Peggy got high and the 3rd Season blasted off.

The subtle dynamic between grandfather and granddaughter, contrasted well with the big funtime of Trudi and Pete's dynamite dancing and Joan's sweet singing.

All is well in Mad Men land. Except for Don, who apparently needs to get laid, bad. Yes, Roger was a 'fool' for his blackface routine, but that playboy Don should judge Roger for marrying young... Don is usually above it but now he's down in it. But that's OK because Peggy's got a job and an office and on her door is the star of the show.

Upon 3rd viewing:

The beginning, did you catch the mirror behind the girl, much less but still like the lipstick episode in season 1??

And of course when Cosgrove and Pete are at the door you can tell they just ran around from the back.

Betty is drinking in the kitchen while she's pregnant.

Before Peggy gets high, she's actually laying on the couch like Don, there's a great bird's eye shot of her from above. laying on the couch, drink on the floor, total Don, and she gets up. SO Don modeling.

Don at the bar still drinks rye.

Regarding the music...

Ok this is important but I'm not getting why right now so I'm tossing it to you, so put down your booze and listen up :

In all 3 environments, they all had singing, and they all had a party......

Roger had his, he sang at the beginning

Joan sang at the end.

The high boys also sang in their little party.

It's not a coincidence

think about it.... what's that about? Why was there so much singing tonight?

I don't know if Joan is playing the accordian, but her voice is being dubbed by a Marilyn sound-alike. Roger sounded/looked dubbed too.

Wow. I'm really enjoying watching Peggy this season. That's not to say that I like where she is going but it's going to be a fun ride. Why does she end up with all the nutty secretaries?

Joan's not getting out of her situation any time soon, and that last look she shot the good doctor was so sad.

With regards to the blackface, we had an incident in a frat house at the college in our town not two years ago, so I don't think it's unreasonable to see it pop up every now and then, regardless of era. I'm not saying it's ok, but I'm just saying it's one of those examples of "we've come so far since then.......or not."

And I'm with Zerelda on the Sally/Grandpa thing, I don't think it will be sexual but I definitely see a conflict. Betty used to speak about being scared of her father, and the references to the fights they had later may point to a more violent upbringing than she lets on perhaps, and that's where I see the dementia coming in, mistaking Sally for Betty and reacting as such.

And please more Pete dancing. :)

I really envy you guys with HiDef and good sound. Help me out... where was this party? Is it the country club? or Roger & Janes house? There was a wedding, I saw the bridesmaids, and Connie was at a wedding.....did Roger have his own tent?

BYW, I won't be making any more predictions, face red, head hung in shame.

One last thought...I liked seeing the scene with Don behind the bar. He seemed so much more at ease with the "working class" than he did with anyone else at the party. Kind of calls back the time in CA when he seemed eager to jump in with the mechanics on the Hot Rods. It's nice to see him slip into that every now and then.

Racy4: There are many guys on this post. Maybe you can observe that next time when you take notes...not trying to be snarky...just pointing it out.

Also, although I think the majority of posters have some great ideas, comments, and are a smart crowd, I REALLY wish you'd stop trying to impose modern thoughts and sensibilities on a show that takes place almost 50 years ago. The Civil Rights and Women's Movements were in their infancy and not very popular at that. Racism and sexism were pretty rampant for the ENTIRE USA at the time. The characters on the show, as were their models in "real life," were not "politically correct" and under the surface, thought woman and African-Americans were second class citizens and not equals. In several episodes during the first season, Roger and Draper make snide comments about Jews and act superior to the black characters on the show, and of course act horribly to the female characters. So really, calling for boycotts of the show/advertisers is a moot point...the show is HISTORICALLY ACCURATE for the time period!!! Yes, we are repelled nowadays by "blackface" performers, but back then, it wouldn't have caused much of a ruckus. Please people, have some sense. The show is about a time period and it's social mores, not the social mores of today! Isn't that what the show is really about? To show how far we HAVE come since then?

Oh, and by the way, Al Jolson, the white, Jewish New Yorker-by-way-of Russia, who started the whole blackface thing was EXTREMELY popular performing in blackface on Broadway and other NYC stages in the 1920's...that IS in the Northeast isn't it?....hmmm....maybe in New York City? So, to those trying to hide behind "blackface performing wasn't popular, at least in the Northeast" - your argument there just doesn't wash.

Speaking of Northeast, someone posted that they thought Betty and Gene were Kentucky natives, hence the title of the episode. To those who predicted a Kentucky Derby party (popular everywhere on that day)...you get a prize.
It's been established in prior seasons that Betty and her family were from suburban Philly...mainline (the train line from Philly to the ritzy 'burbs) denizens. We never knew about Don's native place of birth, but were informed tonight.

FancyNancy: I'm sure you'll concur as an excellent mixologist and a Southerner...Betty wasn't making a proper Mint Julep, or anything resembling one in that episode from the first season...she poured some Bourbon in a pitcher of what looked like cherry KoolAid with a mint sprig and called them Mint Juleps. A silver Julep cup does not a Mint Julep make. We know better don't we?
Bourbon, bit of water, sugar (preferably cubed), several mint leaves, crushed ice - muddle, stir, let sit a few minutes until thin ice layer forms on the julep cup...serve and get looped.

BTW Fancy, I had some comments on the last episode blog about how you should AVOID getting into advertising. I'd be happy to answer any further questions about the subject.

I think one poster was very astute in saying for the most part that Roger's character and those like him were remnants of a past era and were basically becoming a joke (his archaic "blackface" performance, and the fancy party to show off a young wife). And as Don pointed out to him, most people think he is foolish - in a mid-life crisis. Roger seemed to be trying to put Draper in his place with his comment, basically implying that he thought Don was a little big for his britches by preaching to him, as he was cordial enough to invite him to the party. I hate seeing these two fight. Loved it in season one and two when they were drinking buddies/commrades.

I think the scene with the older character - man sharing a Draper-made drink - was a good little sideline story.
What I gathered is that the older man and Draper were sort of "kindred spirits," meaning that they were rich, established and successful, but they were from meager beginnings and neither of them comfortable with the country club set. They felt out of their true element and out of place, despite their riches.

I was wondering WHEN they would start smoking weed in the office!...knew that was coming!
And Peggy? She's gonna' be tokin' with Paul in future episodes, as she's found her creative "inspiration" in the smoke.
My favorite line: "ok, ok, we KNOW you're educated!"
I'm thinking that the secretary was worried and motherly to Peggy because she didn't want her to "ruin" all the gains and success Peggy has achieved, as it was rarely possible for women in the secretary's younger days.

Anyone think Pete's dancing was showing off to Burt and Roger that he was "one of them," being from an old-money family and was bred knowing how to dance the Charleston? Cotillion classes before he went to prep school perhaps?

Betty...she's going to wind up having a fling with Mr. Governor's office guy. She dug him and his attention. Man, she is so mean to her kids!
Sally, again, is the hellion. Stealing mommy's valiums and hitching a ride to Woodstock is in her future.

Roger's blackface bit was ignorant but probably on par for that time. His remark, "can somebody get my wife a glass of milk!," announcing to everyone that his new wife was acting like a child, was highly insensitive and insulting, but again perhaps somewhat on par for that time. Roger went on to Don about his happiness in that scene but did not show any.

Let me correct something. Al Jolson "starting" the whole blackface thing was a blanket statement, he didn't. He merely popularized it in the 20th Century and it was commonplace until it became taboo in the 50's. But I'm trying to point out that it was very popular in NYC at the time.
OK, enough of that. Carry on folks.

Hi Fellow Maddicts!

Lucky Strike: I couldn't figure if Gene's line asking Carla if she knew Viola was about bigotry, just his abrasive personality, or his dementia.

Zabadu: Don told Pete not to hand out business cards because it would be in bad taste to do it at that social gathering.

Did anyone catch the looks on Pete & Trudy's faces when the Don, Betty, Harry, & Jennifer conversation at the Garden Party was about babies?

Isn't $10 for 4 joints pricey for 1963? Even in Manhattan?

One of my favorite things about MM is its ability to trigger childhood memories. Tonight I remembered my big sister teaching me the Charleston.

Old Fashioned: Connie at the bar with Don was Dick connecting with someone who came up from the wrong side of the tracks & made it.

Peggy's new secretary will stay. Peggy established the pecking order.

Peggy, passive aggressive or not has decided to become "one-of-the-guys" for both acceptance and advancement. My only qualm with the office pot-party was Peggy's reaction. Who smokes pot the first time and experiences confidence instead of paranoia?

TexRex: great analysis of various character's attitudes and how same will serve them as the times begin to change.

I really liked this episode. Lots of hidden musical talent!

The previews for episode 4 are interesting. Is that Peggy's mom or sister accusing her of lying?

Can Peggy afford to move to Manhattan??

well i really should call it a night, but this episode was just chock full of gems, the first scene with Gene and Sally is so touching. I know there are dire predictions for G&S but in the meantime they really are good for each other. Sally actually has someone spending quality time with her. the kiss she plants on Grandpas head and the goodnight grandpa she utters was nice. I also loved when Sally tells Mom."I walked backwards all the way from the living room" another great exchange Grandpa says you're going to a soiree

Betty responds Don't bother him go watch TV best episode this season

I adored the playfulness of this episode. Like the writers and actors and directors all needed to stretch or even get sent on Texas tea, to have a little fun with the script, cut loose, showcase some talents and shake off the soap opera blues. All that "I had your baby and I gave it away" is finally over, and we need some comic relief. At least before heading into another MAJOR drama,

Don's looking for an escape hatch again. I really think he's feeling the pull to "go up the country" or get clean in Calif. The only time he wasn't uncomfortable was during the routine behind the bar with "Connie", when he could let Dick out. :p I felt like I was watching one of the great old vaudeville duos, and I loved their schtick. The whole "wedding guest disguised as a " exchange, and how about that julep job? Looked so delicious, I stuck my hand out to the TV. And vaulting over the bar in a Brooks Brothers suit? Don's so 007 sometimes it's a joy. I don't think he was all that impressed by Gatsy's big shindig, was he? Maybe Roger overestimated how "close" he and Don really are. Especially with his wife who's such a liability.

Besides the Roman Empire about to fall, (a bit over the top as a metaphor, isn't it?) and Roger channeling Jay Gatsby, and Paul spouting the easiest lines from The Wasteland (heh heh) were there any other literary references I missed?

How about the nurse's memorable line-- "I'll cut the cheese!"

ok last couple of thoughts @thewaymouth i am likely wrong. but I thought that Roger asked for the milk because thats how he sobers up
I don't think Carla was clued in to Genes mental state, thought she overreacted to the Viola mistake and I think she is smart enough and understanding enough to have let it go if she was aware of his problems. I don't think he meant any harm
also the creative bunch was not very creative until they got high
Finally, something I know a lot about has arisen. Drugs. I never knew a dealer who carried around a general store of drugs. the pot dealer had pot, maybe some hashish on occasion.pill pushers were just that pill pushers. this guy reminded me of the gun dealer in Taxi Driver, very funny nonetheless
And Don told more to his new aquantence at the bar than he ever told his wife, kids friends. enjoyed getting some missing info on Don without a flashback. also Conrad Hilton is the only man to impregnate any of the Gabor sisters Zsa Zsa. she claimed he raped her they had a child and later divorced

I think the people who focused on class in their posts are right on...the decline and Fall of the Roman empire references are key...it seems like since the Kennedy assassination reference with the date on Margaret's wedding invitation, there is a portentous theme arising, of an impending crisis and fall. The jazz age references are especially apt in this context (the Charleston, the blackface....all very pre-crash 1920's. It seems like the writers are making very clear parallels between an unequal, sexist, corrupt and heavily class-segmented society and societal collapse. And that's exactly what happened, in Rome, and in the US in 1929 and in another form, in the second half of the sixties.

I like how the show lets us see that those who play by the rules will get hurt and might not "survive" this change (Joan, who used to break the rules, but fell into an increasingly loveless marriage and did it for all the wrong reasons) and those who break them might be OK--even rewarded (Peggy, especially when she tells Olive "I'll be fine." Even if she might not be, you get the sense she has a bright future, where Joan might not).

Clearly the writing style has changed this season. Some people have called it disjointed. Each episode is a cluster of short vignettes designed to evoke something - a concept or feeling. For example, Joan with the accordian and Roger singing in black face. It's too abstract for me. I want good, old fashioned plot and character development or I'm going to lose interest and stop watching.

Someone give Jane another beer.

Too bad Joan wasn’t at the garden party to see how Jane ended-up behaving there. Not as confident as in the office, although I give major kudos to the actress who plays Jane, for her very believable skid in front of the banquet table! Lucille Ball did the same skid on “I Love Lucy”, in the 50s, & she permanently hurt herself, in real life. Same with Jerry Lewis.

Notice at both parties, they end-up w/ “banquet feeding”. Joan can solve ANY problem. Jane can’t begin to.

Joan & Roger are both married, but they could still end up in bed together, again. And, we see Joan’s apt. First the doctor’s wife compliments Joan’s décor, then she insults her for them living as low lifes. And, what did Joan do w/ the canary Roger gave her in S1?

Whew! Whew! Matinee idol looks, personable, deep thinker, Princeton educated, articulate, thinks Paul is a dork, great tenor & has his own business! And, he has the hots for Peggy! Like other posters, it hit me first that drug pusher, “Graves”, looked like Tom Cruise.

Last blog, many were commenting on “jumping the shark”. Along those same lines, I still think the writers may pull a “thirtysomething death”. On that 80s TV show, everyone thought main character, Nancy, might die of a serious case of ovarian cancer. But, unrepentantly, the writers quickly killed off Gary, another main character, (who had just fathered a baby, & who had just married), in a car accident. Here on the MM blog, we have posters predicting the demise of Gene, Betty’s baby, Jane. What if they threw us, & killed-off Roger, or someone else who is a main character? Especially around the time of the assassination

You know what would be less confusing? If the individual posts were numbered.

I realize Peggy’s foray into drugs was supposed to be in line w/ her ever increasing risk-taking behavior. Personally, I wish Peggy had not taken drugs. Marijuana was illegal, & I’m not sure that someone in 1963, who cared about breaking the law, would have done so.

Is it only me, but, wouldn’t Roger confronting Don, “What’s going on here?” have been funnier, & more precious, if Roger had still been wearing the blackface, & funny hat?

In 1986, they called “Code Pink” over the hospital intercom when my sister was giving birth to my niece. My niece was born w/ the umbilical cord wrapped around her neck, & this was the alarm.

I know a lot of you guys don’t speak French, so let me tell you that Joan’s song was very Parisian, & very cute. I laughed all the way through it: “and, then they get married, Ooooo la la!” The French lyrics to the song are not that sophisticated. Anyone who took high school French should be able to translate it.

@hobocode52: Great retort to Bamabella! Did you read mine to her above? “Don’t shoot the messenger…..Weiner”. Exactly. You’re sharp as ever.

@hobocode52, &
@StephanieJo, @wasthere, @SCFan & I think you, too @KBF: In the movie, “Pal Joey”, when Kim Novak comes to see Frank Sinatra on the yacht, she asks him, “Do you know what I am?”, & he answers her, “You’re stoned”, meaning she’s drunk! I saw that film in the 60s, as a kid, & it always bothered me, “Why is Frank using a drug reference word?” Your explanation that musicians used the same words to make people think they were drunk, rather than using drugs, is a great point! Thanks for sharing!

@boomboom: What are you talking about? Rosemary’s Baby? You completely lost me! It’s a good post you wrote, but, if you want to be taken seriously, why are you posting w/out reading, or at least scanning the earlier posts? Your question: “Did anyone else think the drug dealer looked like Christian Bale?” is answered, “Absolutely!” Several other posters commented on that way b4 you did! Double posting simply makes you look foolish (like Roger), & not clever (like Peggy). Roger is a double poster. Peggy would never be. She’d do her homework. You want to sound clever & articulate, don’t you, like Peggy?

@Chevy62: I am floored! Conrad Hilton, whoa! Thanks for posting this! Keep posting w/ us on The Open Thread, so we all know what’s going on! Plus, didn’t Conrad say something about “weddings being about boardroom mergers?” Didn’t his son, Nicky, just marry and get divorced from Elizabeth Taylor?

@Toronto Connection: I don’t understand. What’s the significance about Olive’s name? What am I missing?

@gimletgal: Another winning analysis, congratulations! I also liked Peggy’s line, “Paul makes me sleepy.”

@gimletgal: Yes, I also loved that Trudy & Peggy CLEARED the dance floor! Good catch! You are a clever gal! But, I don’t agree that Pete is more like Roger than like Don, simply for the fact that, as many here have posted, NEITHER DON, NOR PETE WAS SMILING DURING THE BLACKFACE NUMBER.

@MADMENMommy: We pre-episode post on The Open Thread because we want people to read our posts! Who is going to go over to read comments on a thread called “Predictions For This Episode”? I sure wouldn’t. If you don’t want to read through them, simply scroll until a post reads after “10 PM”, & you’ll know posters are commenting while the show is airing. Make sense? We’ll try what we did last week. We’ll make a big, BOLD line stating, “You can start reading now!” Happy?

@zabadu: Read above. Get right on it. (Sheesh!)

@Greg & fancynancy: Did you guys read my 10 PM post?

I liked this episode better than the previous two. I felt like it had some of the elements of the last two season's episodes.

I had to ask: The charm that Olive wears, and that Peggy admires in her weeded daze--is that a Hamsa? If it is, then it's appropriate for such a protective figure.

I was begging to love this show. I am African American and I know that time were different social for AA people. Yet, was it necessary to have that scene with one of the main characters with brown painted on his face. I live in Louisville, KY and thought that scene could have been cut from the episode. Some AA could perceive this as a slap in the face for modern day television.

@D-Rock: Yes, yes, I know there are other guys on the blog. I had 2 reason s for my comment: One is that I didn't see any of you other guys posting tonight, & 2: I am giving Greg a hard time, because I think his "Validation" comment, from the last blog, was the best comment made, & AMC didn't give him a prize! He was ripped-off!

Wait a second: in the opening meeting scene, isn’t that the first time we have seen Peggy & Pete together, face-to-face, in the same room, this season?

@StephanieJo, &
@KBF: Did you read what D-Rock posted? He said I should win another prize! Another one! Whoa, hey, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

@D-Rock: To continue, great post on everything in the episode being historically correct (let’s hope that shuts-up the clueless posters.)

@D-Rock: Sally “stealing her Mom’s Valium, & hitch-hiking to Woodstock”, I love it! I laughed right out loud when I read it.

@fiftytwo: “How about that Don jumping over the bar in a Brooks Brother suit? Sometimes he’s so 007, it’s a joy!” Love it, love it, LOVED IT! My reaction when I saw his jump was the same: “Wow. I wonder how many times Jon Hamm had to jump over the bar, to make that flawless landing?” And how about the exchange that followed the landing,” You know there’s a hole on this side.” – “No, I’m in a hurry!” Don must have really needed that drink, especially after Roger’s blackface! Dick couldn’t pee in “The Roadhouse“ restroom, when he was 15, so he knows what discrimination is. Or, is he in a hurry for another reason. Analysis, GIMLETGAL?

@fiftytwo: Thanks for bringing that up, everytime the pregnant doctor’s wife said anything, her husband put her down!

@hobocode: You really made me laugh w/ your “Taxi Driver” mention. The drug dealer in that movie is one of my favorite all-time movie characters. When I saw the film, I laughed all through that scene, although I’m certain Scorsese didn’t intend for it to be amusing. The arms dealer asks DeNiro what he wants besides the gun (& the ‘honey of a holster I had made for it in Mexico.’), & DeNiro says, “Nothing”, & the guy turns into Mr. Drug-Wal-Mart! The guy started naming all the drugs he had w/ him, & when he asks DeNiro, “Chloral Hydrate?”, I lost it in the theatre! I was laughing so hard. With a lifelong sleeping disorder, I knew no one used Chloral Hydrate for insomnia, anymore (except, sadly, Anna Nicole.) “How about a car? I can get you a brand new Cadillac, with a pink slip, for $2,000.00?”

Hi fellow Maddicts! Well, I stand corrected.

The theme of the show was related to a Derby party. I honestly didn't think people hosted Triple Crown parties back then.

I will end this post to go back and read as many of the others as possible in an attempt to not repeat info. already presented.

Thanks racy, if I can find the whole "smoke language" thing online, I'll link it sometime.

The blackface routine did offend me but not for a good couple of seconds. Then I remembered this was before the civil rights movement took hold in mainstream society. My husband is catching up with Season 1 and it was mentioned by the beatnicks Dan was hanging with (1960), but with a lot of fringe groups, news like that filters in through them first. It challenges the status quo and mainstream society can't accept things like that at first.

I was happy to see that all the help at the party wasn't black. Jane cannot hold her booze, but Joan can. I also think Jane quipping about not being able to stop losing weight may be a foreboding moment, the look on her face said it all. Joan may have took it the wrong way, though considering her previous relationship with Roger.

What a dedicated secretary Peggy has! I like the way the junior executives combated the boredom at the office. I think it got Peggy's creative juices going, but with a lot of creative things done in that kind of altered mindset, what will the outcome be? The rum ads might be the best thing Sterling Cooper has ever done, or it could be crap.

I think Gene got a clue that Sally stole the money when she "found" it on the kitchen floor. He probably read the guilt on her face and decided that the guilt was enough punishment. I don't think Gene will involve the kids in his demise. Although I do think that since he still has the Lincoln, he may decide to take a spin by himself and it's bye, bye Gene.

Pete and Trudy can really dance. But then they don't have kids so there is plenty of time to practice. I'll have to watch the episode again on DVR, it comes on past my bedtime, I tend to keep children's hours.

I did some "Evelynn Wood" speed reading to get through. Does anyone else remember that speed reading method?

I loved reading everyone's take on last night's show.
Of course, I always enjoy the humor in MM...

During the pot smoking scene, when Peggy was asked "aren't you hungry?" She said she was too high to move and eat something! I also cracked up when Peggy kicked in with some great Bacardi ad ideas while being high. I wonder if smoking grass will become a regular event for Peggy to enhance her creativity. She did say in next weeks preview that she is moving to Manhattan, maybe the Village? I remember last season when she was talking about how much she liked Bob Dylan.
Maybe she and Paul will get together!

Does anyone else think the name of Peggy's secretary "Olive" works well with all the Martinis the SC staff drink?

boomboom: I am pretty certain the consensus is that Peggy got pregnant the night Pete came to her apt after his bachelor party.

regarding the 20's nostalgia feeling at roger's party: accroding to martha reeves of the vandellas on MOTOWN 25, the opening riff of the big hit HEATWAVE was intended to be a take on the charleston theme which was being revived at the time. even clothing (slitghly dropped waists, shorter skirts) was a nod to the flapper age. it seems we are always looking back- to the golden age that never was.

Can someone please tell me who the actor was who played Jeffrey the drug dealer. He is obviously Tom Cruise's brother or very close relative. Looks just like Tom. I can't find a cast list for this episode anywhere.

Wonthebattle - Laura: I think something will happen with Gene and Sally, but I don't know if it will be of a sexual nature. The sooner Gene is out of the house the better for the Drapers. Someone as unpredictable as he is could really cause problems.

The very last scene in the preview for Ep. 4 showed a car pulling up in front of the Draper's house w/ Sally sitting out front. It was quick and I thought it was a cab, but it could have been a police car. Could Gene have had an accident in his Lincoln? If so, he may lose his license which makes him a further burden on Betty which might explain the picture of an exasperated Betty and a wide-eyed Gene sitting at the kitchen table on the preview page.

Betty's pregnancy is what brought she and Don back together and I sure hope this isn't foreshadowing for something happening to their baby. That would surely drive a wedge between them for a cheap dramatic turn.

Lindak - Can someone please tell me who the actor was who played Jeffrey the drug dealer. He is obviously Tom Cruise's brother or very close relative. Looks just like Tom. I can't find a cast list for this episode anywhere.

His name is Miles Fisher.

http://www.milesfisher.com/bio.htm

@racy: I am def jealous of KBF's humor...that line about Bobby is so funny. you're pretty funny too, you're so happy about 'winning' the contest, but unless it was Peggy's foot in the 1st frame, I don't think it counts, sorry, you will not be getting the million! I'm in LA for your party, be back on the East coast after Labor Day.
@hobo: Thx for the info, that helped.
Now, did anyone think that maybe when Jane exclaimed to Betty "you're pregnant, you two make such a good couple..." that Betty's shocked look possibly came from the thought that the baby was not conceived when she was w/Don? When she did that guy in the bar, was she already prego? Can't remember.

racy4 - Jane drunk? Are we certain that’s why she was collapsing? Where are all you posters that have been predicting her premature demise anytime now?

Jane did say she was losing too much weight and had to get her rings resized. Maybe she's Bulimic and can't hold her alcohol? Seems losing Jane would be Roger's just desserts after he threw his family away for her.

Very insightful posts as always ... thanks to all you "detail catchers"
The actor playing "Connie" is Chelcie Ross. I remember him as one of the player's dads from the movie "Hoosiers" ... his character particularly has it in for "Norman Dale", played by Gene Hackman.
Does no one beside me think that Gene molested Betty, and will end up doing the same to Sally?
I would like to reinforce one other comment already made: keep in mind that this show is a period-piece .... the attitudes of the greater society would have been formed in the previous two generations, not the subsequent two.
Also, a discomforting thought brought on by another poster ... cataclysmic change in 1929, same two generations later in 1969, same two generations later in 2009? Dylan: "Something here is happening, and you don't know what it is, do you? Mr. Jones"

Forgot a couple of other comments:
It was Derby Day. Where was Betty's hat? At least for the daylight portion.
Don making an old fashioned with rye instead of bourbon. I confirm that an old fashioned was properly made with rye. That said, I've bought some Old Overholt. In case any of you other think of sampling it, I'd say "not so good". At least not compared to other, better, ryes on the market.
Was it just me, or was Smitty hitting on Peggy when we asks her to "go up on the roof"? Isn't he with Kurt?

I've been wading through the comments, and no one's mentioned the potatoes. Gene mistakenly peeled them all in the morning, and for dinner at home that night, everyone got a giant helping of mashed potatoes. A nice little joke for the viewers, I thought.

DRock--there are about 40 years between the Al Jolson years and 1963--the Northeast became quite liberal in those years!

And Roger is old. He was Ivy league in the early/mid 30s when that sort of stuff was still acceptable.

@racy4: I thought a lot about that “I’m in a hurry” line after he jumped over the bar, because it has to mean something. Not a word or a gesture is wasted in MM. At first I thought he was just desperate for a drink but the more I thought about it the more I thought it tied in to the class thing, and that the bar was symbolic for “the tracks”, so to speak. Don was feeling so uncomfortable at the soiree that he wanted to get to something familiar—in this case behind the bar—and couldn’t take the time to walk around. He felt much more relaxed and at ease once he jumped over, and even opened up to Connie about his background. But that’s just my amateur opinion.
On another note, did anyone notice how, when Pete saw that Don was watching he and Trudy dancing Pete dropped his smile for a millisecond, as if he was worried about what Don would think? But then he quickly dismissed the thought. It was like he was saying “OK Don, work might be your element and you can put me in my place about that, but this is my element and you can’t touch me.”

Anyone else think Smitty might make a play for Peggy? He seems -- well -- smitten with her.

I think Gene's purpose on the show may be coming to an end. The preview for next week shows Betty in tears and Sally sitting on the front stoop as a police car pulls up. Another, final stroke for Gene? (I realize those previews rarely are that obvious, so I doubt that will happen.)

And I agree with Lucky Strike -- the women are much more interesting than the men. But isn't that usually the case?

It's generally true that if you keep having to reinforce a feeling - like happiness, sadness, depression - by verbally repeating it to anyone who'll listen, chances are you aren't actually feeling that way. Roger has said in the past three episodes that he's ridiculously happy, and his face never matches that sentiment. If anything, he's becoming more of a jerk around the office - Bert Cooper without the quirks that make him both interesting and endearing. Don's assessment is right-on.

It made me nervous when Betty said, "It's not moving now." as the older man from the Governor's office had his hand on her belly. I immediately thought, she's going to lose the baby... it actually made my stomach drop for a second. Maybe I'm just being ultra-sensitive because I'm trying to get pregnant. Did anyone else think the same?

I loved how Carla, the maid, got in Gene's ass! Way to go.

Is anyone else put off by the way Betty talks to Sally? She's always snapping orders to her- never talking to her.

Someone commented to Betty that she looks good. Her response was "I know". I love that about her. She looks good and she knows it. She's a confident and sexy housewife- not mousy and subservient. She'll allow a stranger to rub her belly and get it on with a stranger at a bar. I love it!

As an African American, I was initially disturbed by the blackface number. But then I had to remember it was the sign of the times and the writers are obviously trying to stir a little controversy.

I loved the smoking weed at the office scene. Man, those were the days!

Someone mentioned Bobby is mute? Is that true. What really is going on with him. We rarely see him.

I was glad to see Pete and Trudy looking happy for once.

Yes. That guy Jeffrey, the drug dealer was very handsome. I would like to know who he is also.

I just wondered if anyone noticed in the last episode (Love Among the Ruins) that Margaret Sterling's wedding date was Nov 23, 1963--one day after the Kennedy assassination. I wonder if or how this will be worked into the plot. Also, this current episode referenced Jackie Kennedy's pregnancy; In August she would deliver a premature infant who died a few days later. Just curious to see if there is anything done with this tidbit of history, given Betty's pregnancy.

isogetdon-
When I was in college I bought Old Overholt a couple of times. It was great for clearning the phlegm from my throat when I had a cold.

I initially thought Jane's comment about losing weight was a slap against Joan because she obviously hadn't. Getting easily smashed could be because she hadn't eaten. Might be bulimia or simply not eating to lose/maintain her weight. So many possibilities.

I admit, I was off-put by Roger's blackface skit. He was doing it because she thought it was funny. This is 1963, before the 1965 Civil Rights Act and months before MLK's March on Washington DC.

The moment Roger started the skit, Don was distinctly uncomfortable and wanted to be somewhere else.

Loved Don's jump onto and over the bar when almost anyone else would have walked around it. Meeting Connie, (giving last names would be gauche) and giving personal information. Obviously Connie is someone rich and/or important or he wouldn't have been invited to the party. Someone above said Conrad Hilton and a quick Wiki check - yup. San Antonio, New Mexico Territory. No doubt they'll meet again later in the series.

Grandpa Gene is having Sally read "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire?" That's heavy duty reading for a nine or ten year-old. Obviously he's trying to instill valuable information inside her. I doubt he tried or was able to do the same for Betty - she probably fought it.

This was a party, not a business meeting, so don't automatically hand out business cards is what Don meant. Meet, greet, have a good conversation and take their cards if offered but don't volunteer yours - that leaves you in charge if you want to contact them.

Jane's got a brain tumor--that's why she fell down; it's not like she doesn't know how to drink.
No CTs in those days (they did have plain X-ray tomograms).
It'll be interesting to see how it's found.

@ta-town girl: We discussed Margaret Sterling's wedding date to death in the open thread for episode 2.
@demolino: Does having a brain tumor make one appear to be very drunk? Because Jane didn't just suddenly fall down.

it could.
something's wrong. that's why she's loosing weight. you could tell she wasn't trying to; the weight loss worried her.
btw doctors don't discuss "bad patient outcomes" at dinner parties--and definitely they didn't in those days.

Brain tumor? This isn't Grey's Anatomy.

Anyway, something is going to be seriously wrong with Betty's baby, if it even lives. When the man felt her stomach she says "Oh she's not kicking now". The references to Jackie Kennedy's baby, the smoking and drinking.

Whoever figured out that was Conrad Hilton--KUDOS!!

@rotaryphone great catch on the potatoes, as i finally drifted off to sleep I said darn I wanted to bring up the potatoes .
@racy4 thanks for filling in the scene from Taxi Driver forgot about the cadillac very funny I do think however Scorcese definitely intended that scene to be funny, Lord knows the movie needed some breaks in the tension and as I stated earlier Racy the slang terms for stoned and high were interchangable among the "cool cat" musicians I knew and a Sinatra was definitely" hep to that jive".
@60'schild definitely remember the Evelyn Wood commercials
@bipolarbear $10 for four joints was overpriced for late sixties a nickel bag $5 in late sixties would give you 6 or 7 joints an ounce of cheap Mexican grass was only about $30 or maybe less, but this was early sixties and my first thought was that it was less widespread in 63 therefore more expensive, some kind of supply and demand pricing, just speculating can't say for sure.

And at this point, why not just let Bobby go through the whole season without saying a word. I know some shows have specific writers for each character, maybe the guy or GAL (see the progress ladies) writing Bobby is just drinking rum and smoking blunts on the roof.

spare us "the smoking and drinking."
millions of children are just fine whose mothers smoked and drank.
(not that i recommend it)
and yes, you're right: it's not Grey's Anatomy (which i've never seen).
ok.
signing off 'till next episode

I'm still refusing to believe that there will be a problem with the baby. Just seems too cliched and obvious to me. But I gotta admit, they're sure dropping a lot of hints.

It's much more likely that the baby ignites something within Don and Betty. Don looks like he's ready to have a nervous breakdown any second now, and Betty looks about one post-partum depression from going off the deep end.

@racy - not on your life. I got my butt handed to me when I posted a "start here" in the last thread. I'm surprised that a bigger fuss wasn't raised this time because of the "warning" last time.

@demolino - A brain tumor? This isn't ER. Jane is obviously drinking more, eating less (she keeps referencing that she doesn't eat much) and knows everyone hates her. She'll hang on for a while, get bored with Roger and take his money and run.

@whoever found the Conrad Hilton reference - GREAT JOB!

@StephanieJo - sometimes I think you post stuff just to get people riled up. I know you know (because we explained it to you endlessly) that the baby is Don's. Don't play stupid, you're much to smart for that.

@BettyCrocker - I so enjoy your posts!

I have enjoyed the comments made about Pete and Trudy's dancing as emblematic of their social class. Certainly, they come from a different world than Don did (although I can't really see Don doing the Charleston, ever). I also think their dancing was a way for both of them to feel good about themselves and to show off that sense of mirth to the others--they are the only SC couple there (save Jane and Roger) who are childless, and Trudy's disappointment and discomfort with that was clear during the scene where the couples introduce their wives. Moreover, Pete's devastation from Peggy's season-ending revelation about their child can't be lurking too far beneath Pete's surface. I wonder how or if Pete and Trudy's childlessness will play a role at all this season.

@KBF - I think maybe that they WANT us to think something will happen to the baby, but I think what really will happen is the explosion AFTER the baby is born. Once Betty is out of her "condition", everything will be the way it was, and it wasn't good.

My two cents? Don was uncomfortable when "Old Kentucky Home" played because that same music played during the episode about his poor upbringing. He was surrounded by over-the-top upper class people, food, drink, decor and so on at that party---and when the music started, he was the outsider again.

As for the racial undertones, it's amazing to me how times have changed. As a kid in the 50's, we thought nothing of singing racist songs (I will not repeat them here), and I am ashamed to think about how things were in my white suburb.

BTW, my dad was one of those Mad Men. Was a creative guy who worked for at least two of the agencies mentioned on the show. I was definitely treated like Don't little girl, and my dad drank too much and smoked too much. Sometimes the show cuts a little too close to the bone. I couldn't even watch the first season--too painful. But now I think it's therapeutic !

Betty looked stunning. I always find scenes with Betty quite loaded with amillion things going on underneath the surface. I think she's wonderful to examine from season to season as far as interior growth.

I feel Don is going to end up being a member of the Country Club regardless of his disdain for the setting and the people, because the Drapers will probably get a few recommendations from other people putting their name forward for membership(despite Roger's warning to Don). One very interested party inquiring about the Drapers membership, my hunch would be the Man (who works for the Govenor;s office) who showed quite an interest in Betty Draper wanting to feel her stomach. I found a parallel between Betty inquirig how "Happy", managed to, with four children, still pull a big fish like Rockefeller and Betty herself soon to have a total of three children; and the man from the Govenor's Office standing in front of her.

I think we will be seeing more of him in Betty;s future. Could this man be a serious contender , challenging Betty's life with Don, perhaps offering her a escape route to a new level of Society, (Political wife)one where Don can be put in check if Betty ever chooses divorce?(Not that I think she ever would divorce Don.

Also the man from the Govenor's office might go poking around into the Don Draper-Dick Whitman's past and expose his findings to Betty on the quiet.

This is all hypothesis of course , but I always love guessing what will happen with each of these new character's introduced.

I loved Pete and his wife dancing together. Her comment, that she was brought up in Club's like this was telling, especialy when she and Petey did the synchronized dance, each knowing the movements of the other to a tee. It was obvious these two blueblood kids were a match made in Country Club heaven.

I used to think, maybe Peggy and Petey would find each other as future soul-mates, but that thought is gone forever, after seeing Pete with is wife. Peggy could never fit into Petes, To the manor born-Country Club world. Pete needs that world, it gives him cache, he needs that feeling.

Peggy's glassy stare laying on the (baby-making sofa) still creeped me out from the Bye-bye Birdie mirror singing, but I liked her looser ,substance fueled personality this week. But with all the mother baby themes, I had to wonder if Peggy has pangs about giving away her own. I truly don't think that name on her door or having her own office and secretary is going to get her EVERYTHING(like she said) I think there is undercurrents of unstableness in Peggy (despite her creative proficiency) and I think her sister is going to bring up her unstable past when she says she's moving to the big city!

I love Don, OF COURSE, But, couldn't he be a little bit more amicable at gatherings??? After all, it is the lifestyle he's chosen! Is his embrace with Betty at the end an indication that he is getting more and more comfortable with this life. It can be very nice you know, Don!! Minus all the pretentiousness...

What book was Sally reading to Gene?

What book was Sally reading to Gene?

just a thought I know the thread gets very long and the posts are not numbered, If you want someone to check an earlier post just give the time and date it will make things easier

Hi all.
Trying hard to get thru these posts.
First, Lucky Strike: Nice to see you back here! Loved your take on Joan being "all hooters and hips". I also agree that this episode was all about the women, big time.

Betty's quote: "I look like an open umbrella."

I loved all of the situations in this episode:
The women wore hats because it was a Derby party. That is what they did on Derby Day. Where was Betty's hat?

Also Jane is sick. Rings being re-sized, and her drunken behavior, is really another symptom.

Joan was so cool, and perfect. The tension between her and Greg is palpable. Is he gay? He rapes, and vacuums? Hmmm. Oh, and hurts patients.

Peggy was absolutely golden here. She let down her uptight behavior, by getting high. She was the only one that actually was more creative while high. "Smoking a bone"?
When she noticed how Olive was feeling, and told her, I was floored. Peggy is changing. That was a first, Peggy being open, honest and relaxed. Wow!

Cringe-worthy moment: Roger in black face.

Gene was really great! He knew the score regarding his money. Carla was wonderful. I thought she knew too, that Sally took it. That little scamp, Sally!

And the scene with Betty, and that older man. Wow. Riveting to me!
Also loved the end scene of Betty on the grass, and Don coming to her.

@zabadu. I agree. My feeling is, whatever we think we've figured out, that's probably not what's going to happen. I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but that was one of the problems with the Sopranos toward the end. The writers kept having to throw out blind-alley clues that seemed disconnected from the show to keep viewers off the scent. It's very difficult to keep surprising people in these episodic narratives and have those surprises remain consistent with the characters and the plot. I'm hoping Matt can pull it off.

Ken bring a date already. I thought Pete and Trudy handled the introducions and baby census very well. Seems like Trudy has softened on her I want a baby right now stance.Only the slightest tiny bit uncomfortable in my opinion. Harry really is a square and will remain so, I liked him in season 1 but his character is not going to change with the times. He is becoming a cretin.
Don't know if this was brought up Where was Sal not at Derby party or at saturday work session. Hope Peggy hooks up with Smitty or the guy from the Tom Cruise drug dealing agency. Somebody with a personality and and without a pole up their behind. Not Pete not Burgerboy. Oh , and what a gigantic poser is Paul Kinsey, yet still likeable because he is so vulnerable.

Please let me go on record as being a DIE HARD Mad Men Fanatic! However, I would like to think that I'm still able to be honest with how I REALLY feel about individual episodes. With that being said, I gotta say that I didn't enjoy episode 3, as much as I have enjoyed every other episode I've seen. (and yes, I've seen them all, so far). Usually, the episode moves the story along substancially further. But I don't feel this one did. I enjoyed the dope smoking scenes, the confrontation between Jane and Joan, and the scene with Betty and the male stranger coming on to her. ....but that's about it. we barely learned anything new about Anything...that's unusual for this series.

People are forgetting that this is a period themed show. The actions of these characters reflect what was going on in society at that time. We react based on facts that we know now not then. Yes it’s insane to see Betty and other characters drink and smoke heavily while pregnant. But they did not know better at the time. Yes it’s unnerving to watch Roger in black face. I find this most unsettling because I feel like this was something that was a little over the top because it doesn’t seem typical of behavior in Manhattan society. But I understand, at the time…..
There were some elements of this episode that I found a little weird ..
Betty seemed to be the only woman at the party with no hat on
I though Sal was the head of the Art Department so why was he not at the party?
How did Ken not bring a date?
Why was Sally stealing?

@Don't Blame Creative: Isn't Sal Italian? Could there be a WASP bias in terms of who was inivited, beyond the "they hate creative" take of Peggy's?

What are the odds that Carla has gotten a raise for her added trouble? Somehow I kind of doubt it.

I would love to see Carla bring her kids over one day

Loved this episode with all its surreal moments.
But I'm still trying to decide which of the musical outbursts was more grotesque. Roger's cringe-making foray into minstrelsy, Pete & Trudie's impromptu charleston, or Joan's bit with the accordian?( Oh, nearly forgot the duet by the boys from Princeton, back in the office~but then,they were stoned.)

I don't think Jane is sick. Her comment about losing weight was specifically to spite Joan.

@dadwasanadman: Good catch on “Old Kentucky Home” playing in previous flashback episode. Also,
Not sure who said it but I agree that Smitty seemed enchanted by Peggy.

Some observations:

1. It IS Don's baby. Discussed to death.
2. The "just like Jackie" line was spoken to Joan's pregnant dinner guest, not Betty. Joan recommended her seamstress to help the guest "look as good as her (Jackie)".
3. It's not the same sofa Peggy got impregnated on. They were in Paul's office.
4. Jane does not have a disease. She has "drinking too much and eating too little (party disease). She and Roger are living one big party now. It's catching up with Jane, she just doesn't know it yet. JMHO.

@dadwasanadman: Good catch on “Old Kentucky Home” playing in previous flashback episode.
Not sure who said it but I agree that Smitty seemed enchanted by Peggy.

Hi all!

I keep thinking about Don at the bar: He is going to crack! With no more sexual release (affairs), it's only a matter of time. How long can he keep living his lie??? It reminded me of that bar scene in The Shining...the confessional? but of course I don't see any ax murders in Don's breakdown ;) Anyhow good insignt on Mr. Hilton @63Chevy!

Joan's man is an insecure twit who is using her (and her accordion talents) to hide behind his own failures and inadequacies...Run Joan Run!

Peggy's passive aggressive-ness is simply a result of her learning to be a powerful woman in a man's world...Go Pothead Peggy!

Pete & Trudy: okay they've got good manners and all, but what a couple of squares doing the Charleston!! Everyone else their age is smoking pot (or wants to) they are lost in the prior decades....they were trying too hard at the party IMO.

@ta-town-girl - yes, there was sometimes a WASP bias towards Italians, even on the E. coast. My WASP mother married an Italian man in Jersey and she has told me about it often.

@KFB - yes very twin-peaks-ish. Slow builds, subtle foreshadowing, i love it!

@inspiron the sexism is interesting to watch (while simultaneously frustrating), because only the guise has changed in today's times.

What is Don doing adding Soda Water to his Old Fashioned? Also, you mix that cocktail in the glass you are serving. I was a little disappointed to see this since this show seems to be reviving the Old Fashioned. This was not a hard one to get right. At least we see him adding Bitters. Cheers to that.

More reading about the history of the Old Fashioned here. http://www.drinkboy.com/Articles/Article.aspx?itemid=20

The tease for next episode had Sal's wife looking at him with concern (he appeared to be reclining in bed): "Something's wrong." The understatement of the decade! My pet theory is that he's going to force himself to impregnate her (with a Charles Atlas poster pasted to the headboard) to prove to everyone that he's a Real Man. Another possibility is a wild anonymous sex romp (now that he knows such things are possible: the look of astonishment on his face when the bellboy grabbed him was something like, "What's happening? How could he tell? My God, does everyone know?")

I'm surprised we're not talking more about the new rift between Roger and Don. That was a huge development in terms of future plot twists and turns. Roger may seem a little frivilous now, but I'm guessing he's the sort of guy who could show Don a few tricks about office politics and how to make life miserable for someone. I also wonder if Don isn't a little jealous. After all, Roger took Don's advice and went after what he wanted. It's Don who can't figure out what he wants.

To Sheryl, and all Maddicts:

I, too, am an African American woman, and while seeing that blackface performance by Roger was disturbing sitting in my living room in 2009, I had to remember this was 1963 and the context in which that blackface performance was being presented. This show is about shocking you back into another time in history. I totally understand and get what the MM writers were trying to convey to the audience. If the writers were to ignore the fact that some people in private clubs and colleges did (and still do) dress up in blackface, then they wouldn’t be true to the period or the characters. Roger was in a country club setting, and as distasteful as his performance was, that’s what some people in those circles did, and called it “comedy”. The writers are reminding us what kind of a guy Roger really is, and also setting the stage for the ensuing civil rights issues that will inevitably be coming up either this season or the next. Anyway, I still like Roger’s character, because he is one of the few that wears his emotions on the surface—with him, what you see is what you get. Besides, this isn’t the first time Roger’s intolerance has come out; remember last season he had Don go and get a Jewish guy to sit in on a meeting just to impress a client? There you go.

I like the parallel that the writers drew in addressing race in this episode. The first part with Roger was an “in-your-face” image, and then the scene between Carla and Gene was more of an unspoken understanding, although Carla did have one of the best lines when she told Gene that “We don’t all know each other”. Race relations are part of the fabric of the nation, and the writers know they have to address it, and I commend them for doing so.

Pete and Trudy were good dancers, but the fact that they were doing the Charleston, etc showed that they are on a totally different wavelength than other people their age. They aren’t even in their 30’s, and this is the dance they pull out? Where were some of the other 60’s dances that people their age would be doing?

At risk of bashing Peggy, I just have to say that once again, she annoyed me with her goody-two shoes act. Not only that, she totally berated that secretary in a way that made her even more unlikeable, then tried to clean up that rude speech by telling Olive that she would get everything that Olive wanted for her. Huh? I realize Peggy was stoned, but she wasn’t THAT stoned. She is just a cold-blooded person, and I hope she warms back up. I believe she is going to crack soon because no one can keep up that image of perfection forever.

I wonder what will happen with Betty and the politician? That’s a story in the making, and we all know that Betty doesn’t have a problem following the Don Draper model of cheating on your spouse after last season. Maybe this season, Don will be the one trying to do the right thing, and Betty will be out for revenge?

Really liked Don playing bartender and talking to the older gentleman. Don always feels a connection with strangers, because he’s a stranger himself.

@StephanieJo: I didn't know of anyone smoking pot in the 1950s or early 60s with the exception of some jazz musicians I knew. It wasn't until the mid to late 1960s that it started, in my world anyway.

Maddicts: I used to hate the accordion, only hearing "Lady of Spain" which I didn't care for. Then a few years ago I saw Marianne Faithful on PBS singing "Danny Boy" with an accordion accompaniment and loved it. Now, listening to our Joanie, I'm kinda liking it. She was great.

I don't think Jane is sick either, but it got me thinking about the shift in silhouettes. Didn't Twiggy make her debut in '66 and thus dictate the new standard? I was thinking during the Joan/Jane standoff that Jane would much more easily slip into the Mod fashion (at least the American version of it). Being young and trendy, I wonder if she'll hop onto that, and how Roger might react. I see more babysitting in his future.

OK I read through all the posts. I absolutely LOVED this episode, although I need to watch again tonight to catch the many details all you eagle-eyes mentioned above.

Favorites: Pete & Trudy dancing, Joan singing with the ACCORDION. I thought her song was sweet and charming, and although Greg forced her into it, her performance won everyone over.

@FirstAvenue: It was not the baby-making couch. Peggy got pregnant by Pete at her apartment. When they had sex on the couch, she was already pregnant.

@FancyNancy: Are you having a party at your place? What did I miss? Be careful, I'm the type that might actually show up! :)

@Racy4: Kentucky Derby 2010 -- wouldn't that be fun!

All - do people actually sing that song on race day, out loud? I think the words are so offensive, I'm surprised anyone would sing it without cringing.

Just had a thought: where were the British members of Sterling-Coo at that party? Was that a deliberate omission on Roger's part?

@KBF: I'm not sure if Don is jealous of Roger's leaving his wife. I think Don is jealous of Roger's social ease, the fact that Roger has nothing to hide and is, so to speak, of the manor born. On the other hand, there is a part of Don that loathes the world that Roger represents (Don's mistress in the first season was a bohemian gal from the Village). So I wonder if this rift between Don and Roger, which has simmered for the entire run of the show (I love the scene from the first season when Don punches Roger after his heart attack and tells him "You wife's name is MONA") really is supposed to parallel and reflect Don's inner battle with himself.

@joshm: the recipes I have seen add water. See
http://www.esquire.com/drinks/old-fashioned-drink-recipe

My prediction for next week's opener: Betty and her father get in an accident in his car.. In future episodes I can't help but feel that Matthew Weiner will have the baby have some kind of affliction, relatively unknown at the time, maybe autism? Am I the only one who thought this: In Jane's drunken rant, she pointed out to Don and Betty something they never really owned: that they had some problems and by pointing that out, it led to their passionate ending scene... despite all they really do love each other. This has been appearent t/out the series. Loved the smoking scenes.. Smitty is not gay, he and Peggy will not have a romantic relationship, but a weed-based creative one! Love all the regular posters here. I think Ken sees on what level he can't compete with Pete, so do Harry and wife. Roger and Don going at it! Don has the upper hand-all Roger has is his silver spoon; they can get rid of him but Don has the talent. Like the dynamic, though. Loved the info a precious poster put about the COnnie at the bar being Conrad Hilton... it is driving me crazy because I know I have seen the Priceton chum cum dealer in everything illicit or illiegale somewhre else!

For those who asked, here is last night's cast ./actor list. I am sorry I am such a bad typist!
Guest Stars: Laura Regan as Jennifer Crane, Miles Fisher as Jeffrey Graves, Jud Tylor as Honey Stolich, Judy Kain as Olive Healy, Pamela Roylance as Irene Ettinger, Tim Snay as Ronald Ettinger, Patrick Cavanaugh as Smitty, Christopher Stanley as Henry Francis, Kiernan Shipka as Sally Draper, Alison Brie as Trudy Campbell, Ryan Cutrona as Gene, Peyton List as Jane Sterling, Samuel Page as Greg Harris, Chelcie Ross as Connie, Co-Guest Stars: Deborah Lacey as Carla, Alexa Alemanni as Allison, Jared S. Gilmore as Bobby Draper, Amy Scott as Hillary, Jamison Haase as Rick Stolich

The Princeton chum, Jeffrey, was played by Miles Fisher. If you scroll up a bit, you'll find a link to his bio in one of my previous posts.

Re Betty not wearing a hat: she was dressed very much in 1960s style, rather than the leftover 1950s style of the other women. The elaborate twisted hairdo, the style of her dress, the pale makeup ... all very 60s, thus, no hat. (Yes, women still wore hats in the 60s, but they wore them as fashion accessories in certain cases, not as de rigueur elements. Cf. Jane's big ole hat when she visits the office.)

Totally different topic: I like the character Carla, and I'm glad she's around. But it does make me wonder why suburban housewives thought they needed household help. Wasn't that what they were supposed to be doing? I know it was partly a status thing, and I don't want to be anachronistic. But I was raised in a blue-collar neighborhood, and it just seems so odd to me. I can't imagine sitting in my living room smoking and reading magazines while someone else makes my kids lunch.

If there is a rift between Roger and Don it may be due to the fact that Don doesn't need to please Roger anymore. Roger is no longer his boss. Don is more fundamental to the Sterling Cooper operation than Roger is.

@zabadu water is added to dissolve the sugar cube unless you use simple syrup. If water is used, it's only a teaspoon worth. You could use a teaspoon of Club Soda but it's really not an Old Fashioned with CS. Many Bar Tenders these days top off the cocktail with Club Soda, this is incorrect. You will be lucky to find Rye in your typical bar also so if you are out and order one, it will most likely be made with Bourbon, or Canadian. A well trained bar tender will tell you they don't stock Rye and ask you if it is OK to make it with more commonly stocked Whisk(e)y. Esquire should know better than to publish that.

"Esquire's Handbook For Hosts" (1949) by Esquire Inc. has it right.

OLD-FASHIONED In a squatty, robust-bottomed tumbler of the type designed for and dedicated to this drink, place a lump of sugar. Wet this down with 3 dashes of Angostura bitters. (Some use 2 teaspoons of water, as well. Many prefer only 1 or 2 dashes bitters.) Crush the sugar with a wooden muddler, preferably one which has never been washed nor used for any less worthy purpose. Rotate glass so that sugar grains and bitters give it a lining, then add a crystal-clear lump of ice. Now pour in 1 1/2 oz. bourbon or rye. Twist a bit of lemon peel over the top.

Pete and Trudy dancing might be the cutest thing I've ever seen on TV.

Peaches of 8 - didn't mean to repeat your statement about Roger and Don's rift. I pulled up this page and posted on it, before your post had been added. If that makes any sense to you.

@nevernottasty; I agree... I think this season will see Roger struggling to stay afloat at SC Some predictions:... maybe this entire soiree will get back to PPL, they are displeased, and consequently phase Roger out..so he keeps all his dough, but loses his cachet, having no longer any role at the office. Jane will dump him very soon. Maybe Don runs into Connie Hilton again, gets to run the ny office, and Roger begs him to be able to come aboard! I thnk that Joan's husband as foreshadowed, does not get the residency, slips further into abuse, tries to kill Joan and ends up geting killed instead. Can't help but think that Peggy's secy will try to spill the beans..er uh ..seeds on her in hopes of getting some extra blackmail money, and it backfires on her, reminding Peggy not to trust anyone. Peggy definitely keeps a relationship with the dealer, Graves just so she can buy some inspiration. Ken works his clean cut Yankee-ness for all it's worth this week having witnessed the thing that Pete really does have over him: Old money name, Paul will come up with a few of the ideas they love for Baccardi, come to Joan's defense and aid in her time of need. Sal, remains closeted and gets Kitty pregnant, but still can;'t get over his hoosexuality. Pete has been quielty simmering, this week he blows up.

I was surpise at Mad Men for blantly using the "black face" scene. I guess the show assume no African American watch the show. It was sad to think a good show would go that low. And then have the audacity to try to redeem itself w/Gene and Carla scene. I though it may happen , but you couldnt paid me to believe it. I am rethinking this show. Plus its getting kinda boring

does ken ever have a date?? i think this will go on for a few more seasons then we'll discover him at stonewall

I think Ken spends a lot of his spare time writing. I know a lot has been written about he and Sal etc. but he seems pretty straight to me...I think if Sal ever strays with a man Ken will be the first one to comfort Kitty ... and mean it!

@Zabadu-Your above post is rude and uncalled for. If you don't like what you read, scroll lady, I do on yours! You do not own this thread, stop trying to mediate, at least me, b/c you will not win. You try to rile everybody, sorry for you.

My question stands, is it def Don's baby? I don't remember any discussions, at least that I was involved in. Betty's face & actions of letting the man touch her belly, are very strange. If it is Don's, she doesn't seem to want it, at all.

I have no idea when young people started smoking pot regularly, but we do know that quite a few upper crust people used LSD at that time, which was legal, including the Luce's, Cary Grant, a few other quite rich and famous folks.

@stephaniejo - I have no idea what you are talking about.

@Stephnie Jo; I am not sure it is Don's baby either...maybe I haven't watched the time line closely enough, but I did think there was some wiggle room in there,,, that's why I think the baby will have a problem, they have to uncover it genetically, and maybe Don is not a match! Coudl happen! Would add a juicy twist, plus since Don was born a bastard, maybe he accepts the baby because he doesn't want it to grow up unwanted, as he was.

Don and Betty's baby discussed here: and these are just a few of the threads where it was discussed. Matt Weiner has already said it's Don's baby.

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2009/08/new-baby-isnt-d.php

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/peggys-baby-ado.php

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/yes-its-dons-ba.php

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/bettys-baby.php

I thought the Joan/Jane stand-off was soooo juicy, even though Jane's lips were a nightmare (ala Courtney Love).

My favorite scene is Peggy's speech to her secretary. Loved it. There are so few characters as self-aware as Peggy, and she hits the nail on the head about getting everything Olive wants for her (i.e. getting those things that the other characters at SC want: control, freedom, autonomy, clean conscience, unfettered sexual encounters, promotions).

What's up with the ep. 4 teaser where Betty is grimacing and grabbing her belly? Is that labor or ...something else? Lots of inquiring minds about the baby's health and I think we're being lead/mislead there intentionally.

I had not caught the tid bit about Joanie making more than Dr. Rapist, nor the possible Conrad Hilton tie-in. Great insights.

The guy in the bar represents the changes politically. He is the face of the new Republican Party. He even stated that he was just as much a Republican as the rest of them but does not fit in. Roger who is lamenting that Rockefeller would be out due to his divorce represents the establishment Republican or the "country club set". Roger even seems upset that they could be left with Goldwater who was born in Arizona before it was a state just as the guest in the bar was born in New Mexico before it was a state. The 1960's saw the power in the GOP shift from the Rockefeller Republicans to the Goldwaterites in the West.

Betty had that romp in the bar AFTER she found out she was pregnant--same episode though. I think it had as much to do with the Cuban Missile Crisis as with not having to fear getting pregnant by another man and her wreck of a marriage (maybe she thought she'd do it before she and Don got back together, which she knew she had to do b/c of the pregnancy).

@Those who are still questioning....Betty is having Don's baby. No one else's. Zabadu has stated this and she is correct. If you don't believe her, believe the producer, Matt Wiener. He is the one who decides what the characters do and I suppose, whose baby they have. Betty's soon to be born baby is Don's.

Laurie B. I wondered the same. Apparently the lyrics have been changed:

Kentucky adopted "My Old Kentucky Home, Good Night" as its state song in 1928. The phrase "the darkies are gay" has since been replaced with "the people are gay."

http://www.ket.org/underground/resources/oldkyhome.htm

Presumably all references to "darkies" were replaced with "people". I sure hope so anyway.

@60'sstyle: I agree, I too was uncomfortable with that scene and thought it a little silly. I guess now the producer/writers want to give us something really off-color over which to hate Roger. I already thought he'd done enough negative things that we didn't need to see him do that. For a while, my husband did not even realize it WAS Roger, but then, he sometimes dozes during Mad Men.

@zabadu and wonthe battle:Thanks for clearing the baby issue up. I do still think there will be something with the baby, maybe leading to finding out more about Don's family history out of necessity.

@Laurie B: AS another poster stated, the lyrics were changed from "darkies" (not considered offensive when Stephen Foster penned the song) to "people." The song is sung by everyone in attendance right before the race. Just as at the Belmont, someone sings "New York, New York," and the people often join in. "Sidewalks of New York" used to be sung before the Belmont, but it was dropped many years ago in favor of "NY NY"

gillyrosh: I too enjoyed Pete and Trudy's Charleston number. They were very cute! And good dancers!

@Peachesof8 - Betty knows that Don comes from farmers, she knows the father used to beat Don. She doesn't know details, but she knows "where he comes from". Dick/Don's backgrounds are similar.

@wonthebattle-now that's an answer! guess I missed that, don't follow everything so closely, but didn't think a tiny question would erupt some people's heads! if Wiener said it, that's all I need to know.
@mmjunkie-Courtney Love--good one!!

My mistake about Don's cocktail, obviously an old-fashioned-- thought he was crushing mint.

AK, I agree about Carla. Betty has high aspirations, and probably would like more household help, perhaps a gardener? (Who's mowing that lawn, anyway?) I think Carla is resentful about having to care for Gene. She's already got everything else to do, for goodness sake! But I think she'll be good for the old man, not treating him like he's senile, letting him know how her household is run. Betty isn't accepting the reality of Gene's life, just shunting off onto Bill, Don and now Carla.

I could go on for quite a while about Betty. She's so much like my mother, it's uncomfortable to watch sometimes. It's really obvious now that she and Don want different things in life, he expecting her to fulfill a madonna role she was never into and isn't good at. She reminds me of Alfred Hitchcock's icy blondes-- Tippi Hedren especially in "The Birds" or "Marnie". I forsee her looking for someone to rescue her from suburbia, "Calgon, take me away" to a place where she can be worshipped as a princess and all that beauty won't go to waste. Did you notice she was actually tickled by Roger's offensive performance?

Nikita, your comments from last night are very astute. The young vs old theme is very well-illustrated in this episode. Also class distinctions.

The song Joan sings is called "C'est Magnifique" by Cole Porter and comes from the musical "Can-Can" from 1960. It was made famous by Maurice Chevalier and Frank Sinatra. Joan does a good job, but her accent isn't perfect-- "boo-kett?" The accordion was a scream! All I could think of was The Who singing "Momma's got a squeeze-box, Daddy never sleeps at night"! Or John Candy and his polka band. How on earth does she reach those keys? Must have really long arms!

I got a kick out of the college grads' competition. That Pusher Guy's "Princeton '55" line-- think it ever opened any doors (or bras)? And if those two Tiger Tones had been in my high school concert choir, they would have been asked not to sing so loud. Peggy's line, "I'm in a very good place right now" got our whole viewing group roaring. Love her increased confidence.

The competition between Jane and Joan was so catty, I was waiting for someone to throw cold water on them! MMRROOWW!

The doctors' competition by comparison was just plain creepy-- who's killed the fewest patients? And that old hag pushing her "I know best" on the younger women. Totally tactless about telling Joan not to get pregnant, in front of the pregnant one. Joan was never a good judge of medical men. Look at that jerk gyn-o she sent Peggy to? Anyone who predicts that she will ditch Dr. No Good is on the right track, IMO.

AS for the pot smoking scenes that has been discussed a lot here, I found it boring. It's boring in real life, sitting around watching others get stoned or drunk, etc., if you are not parting as well. I had to fight to stay alert during the pot scenes (no pun intended).

What's up with Peggy's secretary? Is she homeless? Bad home life? Just spying on Peggy for the guys?

I agree, the pot smoking scene was overdone, but I guess that was part of the time..don't know, wasn't there. It would've been more interesting if they feasted with the munchies, or someone hooked up w/Peggy!

Just wondering if anyone else is having difficulty with this site? I had trouble last night (tried to sign in but couldn't). Then when I did sign in and posted a couple of things (that took forever to post the site was so slow) I was booted off the site. I tried to sign on again and the sign-on area wasn't even visible for me to do this. I have high-speed connection, newer computer. I think if this continues, I will say adios. Can't sit here for an hour trying to post a couple of things or merely sign on. Anyone?

gogetter: Or is the secretary merely a "little older and a little wiser" than Peggy? She is certainly older and with age comes wisdom (hopefully). Seems like she might have some issues behind the scenes but if so, they were really not made clear. I thought her rather superfluous.

Think I will leave and check back another time. This site is just giving me too many problems. The slowness is astounding and I tried to post something and got a message that my server could not connect, and then I was once again booted off! This makes about five or six times THAT'S happened. Used two different servers just to see if that might make a difference but it doesn't. Have a busy afternoon so I can't sit here any longer waiting for a post to show up. Maybe they'll have the kinks out by the time I return.

First Mad Men episode I can remember where music played such a central role: "Hello My Baby," "C'est Magnifique," "Old Kentucky Home" -- all of which would have been old hat in 1963. Is Weiner showing the old culture fiddling while Rome declines?

Speaking of Carla, did you notice that she couldn't eat dinner with the family, even though there was an empty chair. She eats her dinner standing off to one side. Shameful.

@PattyO'Cola - How could a song released in 1960 be "old hat"? C'est Magnifique was in the movie Can Can....

fiftytwo: not trying to rouse u, but she is a maid. it's like asking your waitress to sit down w/u at a restaurant. they're working, and getting paid, mind you. nothing to do w/her race, just her job. today's Nanny's are different, they treat them more like family.

@WontheBattle: If things are so horrifically slow , why would you take your opportunity to post, not once but twice, about how slow your server is? Why not post something about the show? Don't get it.

Remember that Don is angry with Roger because of the whole Mona/Jane scene when she confronted him when Roger left her. Is Roger suffering from Sex Amnesia? Jane was working on Don's desk while seeing Roger, I'm thinking that Don felt betrayed by them both. Roger can't be that obtuse. Don knows Roger's character and he only associates with him because of Sterling Cooper.

Can't you just imagine the Prices' hating Jane's party and wishing for Royal Ascot.

Zabadu, Song was written and first performed in 1953, when Can Can first appeared on Broadway.

Don smoked pot in 1960- with Midge.

But anyway, the mysterious man at the bar is...Jane's dad!
That's my opinion anyway. He traveled there from far away, felt totally uncomfortable and didn't introduce himself because he was embarrassed.

I think Betty had a taste of what another man is like and wants more. She was into that stranger touching her.

Waiting for Peggy to read the Feminine Mystique. She is on her way to her own revolution within!

Joan's story is the most heartbreaking. she is so talented and smart and she completely settles in every way.

Olive is awesome. I am excited to watch her arc.

Greg- excellent commentary!

SJ-- Well, if you don't feel shame for the way black housekeepers were treated, you might want to try viewing the acclaimed TV series "I'll Fly Away" with Sam Waterston. Excellent portayal by Regina Taylor of a strong black woman trapped in a Mammy role.

"Connie" in the bar is not Jane's dad. Jane needed to latch onto Roger for financial support and the life of a socialite. If she was the daughter of "Connie" she would not have been working as a secretary and seeking out someone to take care of her.

The older doctor's wife was trying to warn Joan that Dr. Greg was not going to be made chief resident; in fact, it sounds like he may wash out altogether. That's why she didn't want Joan to get pregnant, she will probably have to keep working. And that is typical medical "gallows" humor, by the way.

@PattyO'Cola - I see where you're coming from, but it was revamped for Can Can...songs come and go....

Conrad Hilton was featured on the cover of Time in July 1963, so it seems fitting he may show up here....

Do you people EVER stop fighting with one another? Baiting one another? Acting aggressive toward one another? Do any of you have jobs? Lives? Are you all on the dole (welfare, disability)? It would see so because you are here all the time. Many of you seem to have major anger problems with anyone who disagrees with you or posts something you don't approve of. I notice this board is mostly women and frankly "ladies" you all seem to be suffering from eternal bitchiness.

Laurie B, I have noticed from your postings here (and there are a lot of them on episode two having nothing at all to do with the show, something you apparently decided to take Wonthebattle to task for. In fact, you frequently post off topic about all sorts of political things, your family, your eternal and incessant arguing a point into the ground, etc., but apparently when others to, you take them to task. You have a chip on your shoulder the size of California! Someone states something (Wonthebattle) and you attack them for merely saying it. As I recall, you blathered your head off all day on Saturday about the Kennedy's (and how you hate the late Ted Kennedy) and became angry when anyone brought up anything else, telling them in no uncertain terms that everyone was discussing the Kennedy's! Gee, why didn't you post something about the show instead of the Kennedy's? That's what you carped about to Wonthebattle. I notice you come onto the threads you often put others on the defensive. I don't get it. (Get it? Instead of carping at another poster the way you do, why don't you try and assist them with their problem instead of acting so antagonistic? Again, don't get it.

Some of you others argue one point endlessly even when another poster answers your question correctly and gives you back-up by Weiner. You continue to post the same questions over and over. You would think Mad Men was the most important thing on television or in the world the way many of you carry on and on and on. If someone doesn't like a character that you like, you go nuts. And vice-versa. Many try and run the boards. Like I said, I see mostly women here and you all sound like a bunch of old wet hens with hormonal issues!

@Msnikki interesting...perhaps Don dislikes tactless aspect of Roger's behaviors rather than the behavior itself. Don has made plenty of foolish choices, he just keeps them well-covered (but simmering under the surface).

I thought the entire episode was great, top 5 eps ever in my opinion, maybe the funniest laugh out loud show so far.really funny to read the posts and see the pro vs anti pot factions, many of the people who carry on about mixed drinks , exploring every detail, one spoon of water no two, no 1and a half, are bored with the pot smokers. first of all it delivered at least 2 incredibly funny lines by Peggy, it rounded out Paul a bit, showed what a phony he is. it introduced a new character and produced a good add campaign idea. Didn't Don toke up with the village crowd in season one. Peggy is way more likeable stoned.the pot no pot debate was a dividing point in the sixties, surprised, not really just more dissapointed that it still is so.To quote Dylan everybody must get stoned .smoke , drink heck sniff glue it;s a tough world out there now and back then. just don't hurt anyone else. you have to be able to handle. if you can't there is always religion the original opiate of the masses. oh by the way does anyone go to Church on this show. Except for Peggy and she really loves it.

New to this forum and Maybe a comment like this was posted before, but I don't think this year's show has the same energy, tempo and rythem as the previous 2 years.

My whole family agrees, so I was compelled to find this site and hopefully let the producers & directors know.

Thanks.

Kurt W.

@ Patty - I got the same sense with the musical theme as well - pay no attention to the walls falling down - there's dancing!

I recalled the musicians playing on the sinking Titanic.

@Msnikki interesting...perhaps Don dislikes tactless aspect of Roger's behaviors rather than the behavior itself. Don has made plenty of foolish choices, he just keeps them well-covered (but simmering under the surface).

Ooooh, Pete and Trudy cutting the rug! Just great.

Smitty said something about going back in time with the garden party. Sally said Grandpa called it a "soiree." What a contrast to Peggy, Paul and Smitty getting high at the office. Two worlds collide. The old and the new. I did love the dresses at the party and the hats. Joan's dress for her dinner party was beautiful and how well she pulled that party off.

I love the new character Olive! She is the perfect secretary for Peggy. Great line by Peggy when whe reassured Olive that she'd get everything Olive wanted for her. Peggy is the first woman in Mad Men to realize she can have it all, or at least try to have it all.

Joan does NOT want to be Jane. I think what she resents is that she fired Jane and Jane then manipulated Roger into letting her keep her job. Joan does not want to be married to Roger. Awesome how the drunk Jane blurted out about Betty and Don being separated for a while. And to think when she was Don's secretary she said she was "discreet." Don replied "I don't know you at all," and he was right. Poor foolish Roger, having to say over and over again how happy he is.

We found out why Joan was still working. They need the money. I love how she put the handsome doctor in his place when he said he didn't want to talk and she said to stop talking. Best line of the night!

Gotham, I also thought Connie at the bar was Jane's father.

I disagree that Carla isn't aware that Gene suffers from dementia. She is a very smart woman and didn't need anyone to "tell" her. She knows just how to deal with him, much better at it than Betty and Don.

Any thoughts on where the writers were going with the woman auditioning at the beginning _ she previously played the nurse in Romeo and Juliet and the maid in Tartuffe?

Peggy has reason to passive aggressive. She is a copywriter who was educated and worked as a secretary until her talents merited a promotion. So now she is a copywriter with her own office and name on the door, yet the men still act like animals around the women without regard for polite conversation in the presence of another woman, Peggy. Also, she is doing real productive work when they ask her to get the blender. Sure they are in the habit of asking a woman to do that sort of thing, but the point is that she is NO LONGER a secretary reserved for menial tasks. And Peggy's older secretary represents an older generation that is not used to a woman being in charge--an accomplished woman with power. Her secretary, perhaps out of habit, treats her like her own daughter, but Peggy puts her in her place--and rightfully so. It's 1963 and the producers are laying groundwork for women beginning to make their mark in the workplace, as they have been doing with Peggy's character since the first season.

HI!

Just one question: What the heck happened to Duck Phillips?

hey Monty

@ Patty - I got the same sense with the musical theme as well - pay no attention to the walls falling down - there's dancing!

I recalled the musicians playing on the sinking Titanic.

wow - really didn't mean to double post that one. Sorry all. Technical difficulties.

Somebody mentioned that they can't wait until Peggy reads "The Feminine Mystique." I can't wait until Joan does.

ok...
1. even though Roger's "blackface" may be offensive, it was how these people acted and didnt consider it being racist. Nor did they care. 2. I think Don lost all the respect he had for Roger and the "blackface" was the last straw. Does not look up to him at all anymore. 3. Good for Peggy to continue with her life as she discovers new things and isnt afraid to talk back. I was impressed she told him to get the blender but bit disappointed she broke down and ended up getting it herself. Little by little but is def earning respect by more people around her (not just bc of the MJ). 4. I DONT think anything sexual is going to happen between Gene and Sally. I think if Sally has any chance of going up and NOT becoming a criminal (since she has lied and stolen to date), it will be bc of Gene. He puts more attention to her than Betty does. and when Sally does something bad, its not the typical yelling or hitting from her parents but another form of punishment from Gene that hits her in a way that she understands. 5. Though they may think Gene is sick, he is really the only one who sees people like Betty and Don who they really are and what world they live in. BTW - good comeback from Don when he says money will resolve this particular problem. Lol. Side Note - I think Ken may be gay? He doesnt have a girl with him and makes a comment he should bring someone with him to an event. Maybe he and Sal will hook up? I know he made a comment against homosexuals but maybe he did it to give the impression to others that he doesnt like them?

I am creeping back here after having had my tits blown off by some mighty angry posters last week. In reading down the postings, I see there is still some use for my suit of armor.

I liked episode 3, except for a couple of things. Don't like Roger's new wife at all. I didn't dislike Roger as much as many did, until his black face routine. Not only was it in poor taste (1963 was the year of the Civil Rights Movement, and so...), but he really wasn't even good at it! Not that I would have liked it if he was. Also didn't care for the scene's with Grandpa Gene and Sally; I found them to be boring or at least slow moving.

Things I liked: Betty beautiful dress that she wore to the Derby party. Pete and Trudy doing the Charleston (who knew Pete could cut loose like that?). Always think Trudy looks so classic even in that hat. She and Betty always seem to know what to wear, and when and where to wear it.
I also liked that we did not see the British group (I don't recall anyway). Not fond of them.

gardenia76: I don't know what happened to Duck Phillips but I am glad he is gone. At least I think he is. Don't care if I never see him again. Maybe he was fired in the off season.

Connie bumps into Don while routing around for booze, but he is there for a wedding, not the SC soiree. He says something about the bride and groom being a match made in the boardroom. We also see the bridesmaids leaving the ladies room just before Trudy, who then insinuates they were hogging the mirror.

So I doubt Connie is Jane's dad. I could wrong. I also thought older hottie guy from the Governor's Office was there for the wedding, but then he appears with Roger.

DIZZLE: Peggy? Educated? She went to secretarial school as I understood it (nothing wrong with that but it's hardly being educated) and NEVER had any experience as a copywriter until she happened to come up with that line (out of thin air) for Belle Jolie. Don obviously liked her and from then on she was on the fast track. That probably would not have happened in real life back in the early 60s. She would probably not have gone from the secretarial pool to getting her own office in one season. But hey, this is television!

I disagree that Joan didn't want to marry Roger. I think she was in love with him, but thought he would never leave Mona. By the time he did, it was too late.

Hello
When Don smoothly vaulted the bar, I got a strong sense memory of Dean and Rat Pack days...His ease in conversation with Connie was the instant that I understood that the soiree' hosted by Roger and Jane was in a hotel, where there was also the wedding party in another suite....Was I the only confused guest?
I was facinated by Betty's stylish updo and wonder if that's why she was the only one who was not wearing a hat?
After reading many of your posts, I am surprized that Derby Day parties and the highly stylized decorum was foreign.
But the beeg news was another quick glimpse of Don's past... Pensylvania, by way of Illinois...
All of the past scenes of his childhood were probably on the farm in Illinois,the move to Pa coal country during the depression was all new...Little by little, we're seeing the unfolding ..
Funny, when family farms were lost in the midwest, most people headed west... The Whitmans went east???? Hummmm

KBF: I always thought the story line would have been more interesting had Roger left Mona FOR Joan! To me, it would have been a tighter story line.

I thought this was happening at a country club. My impression was Roger was hosting the derby party outside and a wedding reception was taking place inside.

Scotch Presbyterian: That is what I thought too. There were two separate events going on, one having nothing to do with the other (different people, different reasons for being at the country club, etc.).

mrsham85: You say you think Ken may be gay? I don't think so! Why is is if a man goes to a party or wherever alone, he is automatically tagged gay? Ken casually mentioned he doesn't have a girlfriend or that he didn't have a date but wanted to get one, etc. I think Ken and Sal's wife may hook-up after Kitty realizes that she is married to a homosexual. I sensed a connection between Kitty and Ken at the causal dinner she hosted last season in her and Sal's apartment.

Maybe Duck was mauled to death by Chauncey in Bedford Stuy.

Nana-- When farming pioneers went west after the Homestead Act of 1862, they frequently left some of their folks back east, and when they failed to prove up on their claims, went back to those family members with their heads hanging down, as failures.

I wonder if Arch Whitman just lost the Illinois farm due to drinking? Or did they move after he was killed? And I wish we'd get one more flashback-- his death, accidental or otherwise.

dobiegirl: If Chauncey got him then three cheers for Chauncey! I thought Duck was a boring character whose facial expression was indicative of someone needing a laxative! He just didn't seem to add anything to the show, at least not for me.

HELLO LOVELY MADDICTS: BELOVED CLICQUE and the others. ALL voices are heard and thoughtfully considered and appreciated! And we are ALL allowed to have our FAVORITES. There is only one voice (cavehead's) that we wish not to be privy to !!!
Verstehen Sie?!

DAH-ling RACY: MAH-velous IDEA; YA"LL come on down to our acreage next Madmenday-but I'm not in Conn anymore. . .It's Chapel Hill, NC. If that's a problem, I'll borrow a friends's NetJet and Dr. Knight will pick you up at the Danbury Airport and fly ev'one back to our local Horace Williams airport. He can stop-off in The Vineyard and get that Teriyaki sauce that you like so much (I do have Kikkoman's on hand 'tho). I better start cooking now to make all of my specialties; esp. my "Southern Caviar." And I'll line up a caterer from "The 'Que Shack" to roast the pig. I will have many cases of vino and the finest liquors and I'll whip up 'tails and give mixology tripsandtricks 'til our hearts content and until MM starts ( Pellegrino and "Sweet Tea" for you Racy). Heck, we can put a big screen out on the lawn and have DVDs of the past seasons playing continuously prior to S3, E4. We will have a BLAST!!! YA'LL COME ON DOWN. Alas no, we do not have a pool; we have a lake with swans and a blind albino peacock named "Harvey Wallbanger" and a Jacuzzi. So bring your swimtrunks. I'll unearth my Vuitton trunk of white bikinis and polish Mame-esque Auntie Mildred's Stork Club ashtray ( my metalsmith friend "Rod" thinks he can make a copy for you BTW ). 'Twill ALL be DELISH. CHEERS!!! I am SERIOUS!!!

GREG: Call me; we gotta set this up. Start working on your notes and index cards. 919.962.2211!

=Why did the mashed potatoes look green?
=Strange about the drum-kit.
=I KNEW marijuana was going to emerge c/o the Smiths
=D-Rock; you are AWEsome: thanks for the "Stay out of Advertising" advice. I'm v. impulsive and impetuous. I averted expensive vocational counselling today. YES, those Mint Juleps were pathetic looking. Your recipe is superb and correct (I love to use "Booker's" single barrel myself). If it's a Derby party in your home, it is de rigeur to have MONOGRAMMED sterling tumblers; just as imperative as if you are attending an oyster roast in Charleston (SC) you must bring your monogrammed silver oyster shucker. I sure hope I'm on your calendar for next Sunday! And yes-let the MJ "rest" a minute until that whispery veil of ice crystals form. MMM. And NO one is REQUIRED to wear a Derby-Hat unless you are AT the Kentucky Derby.
=MADtini (lovelovelove the handle). I watched MM twice but not thrice (I saw a pink elephant), and did not notice double Dons in ze mirror. GREAT attention to viewing!!!
="HOW'S BABYLON?" TERRIFIC. And as many Maddicts have mused: Gibbon's "Decline and Fall" and the Gatsby-esque CC setting ("Gucci" tent) foreshadow some ominous events. BRILLIANT.
=KBF (any affiliation w/ my fav airline:"KLM"?): "TWIN PEAKS": STUPENDOUS: maybe David Lynch (lovelovelove him and his complete body of work and his paintings too) consulted on this one. Aspects were SURREAL: Olive/Graves/jaded Barman/drunk and ravenous Jane/Joan and the accordian/minstrel Roger/the hunky politico. KINDA BIZARRO. Many Lynchian touchstones. . .CHEERS!
=StephJo : TERRIFIC! You nailed who Graves resembles-FIRST! I always LOVE your thoughts. TA!
=hobocode52: YOU are so observant I cannot begin to cite how frequently you are ACCURATE. PURR-FECT!
=Isn't this FORUM a Maddict CHAT ROOM!? Please advise.
=60's Child: I thought it was "SaraTOGA Springs. My pal James lives on Caroline Street in a Tiffany-blue Victorian. And I love the Silks museum. And Jaddo. We danced to NatKingCole at "The Turf" off of Broadway after multiple Rob-Roys one August. Sat in the Box at the track near several minor actors and celebutantes and won a Tri-fecta. Next day went para-sailing on Lake George and took a supper cruise toasting all of the folks cocktailin' it on their docks, at dusk. LOVELY. SaraSOTA/Florida. (I always gave the best TOGA parties; growing up in Eastover in Charlotte: One time (for various reasons) 11 kids were arrested. WILD!)
=NOTE: "Old Fashioneds" were originally made with Rye Whiskey. Not to be redundant but I still do (non-professionally) PRIDE myself on my potent concoctions.Cheers!
=Thirteen: (on a subsidiary thread) you NICELY and NEATLY summed up last night's spectacle by noting that it was divided into 3 distinct parties-with layers of meanings and connotations=Old and new money mixing/Bohemians/the patently middle-class. BRILLIANT! Why dontcha comeonover?!
=I ADORED Betty's elaborate coiffure and "point de Bruxelles" and blush colored charmeuse beribboned cocktail dress. She looked like a Patrician Goddess. EARTHLY and DIVINE. GREG: THAT was my fav scene: at the end when he walks towards her on the edge of the lawn by the topiaried Cypresses. I imagined that he was elated to leave foolish Roger and the trappings of work behind and dissolve into the pleasures of his gorgeous wife. As the pink stole fluttered to the ground, I got a shiver-chill: he was so very much lost in her. Betty was no doubt aroused by the attentions of handsome senator-esque guy and met Don's passion w/ her own. I think ZABADU sd that MW sd that they were both thinking about other people. "OH SAY IT ISN'T SO" I think I'll dust-off my "Hall-n-Oates Greatest Hits and pour a Dewars.

CHEERS-CHEERS-CHEERS!!!

To Lily Oei: I LOVE the name "Lily" and wd name my daughter after her if I had one (My stepdaughter is a 28 yo Opthamalogist living in Denver). I'm planning to adopt a new "Lilac point" Siamese kitten in late Sept and even if it proves to be a male, shall name him "Lily" in your ESTEEMED HONOR. Also, what sort of wine do you like, I'll send you a case, and YOU are most definitely invited to our soiree next Sun: tell Matt and Jon and Bryan et al too! CHEERS!

Imamarylin, great call with Jane and her declaration of being discreet not exactly true here when she gets the truth juice in her. Good eye.

On another note, I thought the actress Peyton List as Jane was outstanding. I know this is a silly sounding comment but I've always felt one of the toughest roles to play is a drunk, because it's so hard to be convincing. So many actors so often are so horrible at playing drunk, they just end up talking stupid and overdoing it and quite frankly aren't realistic at all. But I thought she nailed it, with the slanty eyes, the overexaggerated sense of everything, the sudden mood swing being excited with Betty then out of nowhere immediately having a problem with Don, also pawing on Don trying to say something. Drunks are always grabbing people when they have something to say. I thought she was great. I just think it's something hard for an actor to do convincingly.

@Greg--Great observation! List is great as a drunk Jane (complete with the 'why don't you like me?/I'm a nice person' ramblings); she is clearly drunk in this scene although a great many posts suggest she has a brain tumor

Greg, I agree - Peyton had just the right balance of being drunk, yet struggling to be heard. She wasn't quite slurring, but definitely impaired - and still trying to maintain some modicum of dignity. Tough to do, even when you're actually drunk.

Ta-town girl: I must have missed those posts regarding Jane and the posters who think she has a...brain tumor! I got the impression she was merely drunk at the party. Also, the fact that she said she was "losing a lot of weight" was a dig at our buxom gal Joanie. A brain tumor? Where on earth do people come up with these things? I mean, anything's possible, but sometimes I think people read a bit too much into each character. An offhand glance, or flip of the hair, or the way someone buttons or unbuttons his coat seems to mean something sinister to some people, other than just a casual gesture or whatever.

Scarlettrose--I agree! I took the weight loss comment as a pointed dig at curvy Joan and which Jane cattily followed up on with the request for one of the girls to flag down her driver

Ta-town girl - isn't that always the way? You get hammered occasionally, and right away people think you're terminally ill! My husband is in AA, and he thinks everyone is an alcoholic.

Ta-town girl: There are also many who are still convinced that Don is NOT the father of Betty's baby. Even in the face of proof (Producer Matt Weiner stating that he is), there are those who continue to insist it isn't so and that Weiner will toss in a twist or something, such as Betty was really impregnated not by the guy in the bar with whom she had a quickie, but by space aliens who landed in Gene's backyard one evening while Betty and Don were there visiting, had a drink with Gene, and then had at Betty!).