I agree, Izzy. Bryan Batt's work in tonight's episode was excellent. He is such a wonderful actor.

We don't actually know, though, whether Sal and the bellboy went back to Sal's room together, do we? After the fire, I mean. I hope they did...Sal was having such a good time,...at least, he appeared dazed and confused, but he seemed to be enjoying himself.

Well, I like Sal, but I don't care if they ever mention his homosexuality. I don't care if they do, either. I like Sal for his good manners and his intelligence.

As far as Don and the flight attendant, it's the same old same old - this one even resembled Betty physically and the "modeling" remark made me roll my eyes, since Betty had been a model. Matt, you need some new material for Don.

These 2 flight attendants seemed like pretty dim bulbs - every FA I have ever known has been pretty sharp - they do have people's lives in their hands.

This site is slow and it's late - I'll check back tomorrow. So glad it's back.

I like Sal's respectful and polite character , however, I think tonight's show caught me by surprise. I was very disappointed. I did not enjoy the sudden exposure of the bedroom scene with the bellboy. I was hoping that Sal's sexual orientation would have continued to be subtle and treated with kid's gloves. I would say yes, it is till too controversial for 2009. And IF Mad Men is portraying the 1960's, then tonight's sexual scene was too graphic.

You guys blew it. This first show was an abomination. It was poorly written and made so over the top just to gain ratings and cause as much uproar as possible. You guys took a franchise and destroyed it in one episode. You killed the goose that layed the golden egg. The last time I saw this happen was the intro of the new coke by coca cola. I think you guys wil have just about the same results.

I love Bryan B.'s acting....great.

Also, I'm happy for Sal...I don't get a buzz watching him and another guy kiss...but then they wouldn't get one watching hetero goings on either....I just don't want him to get going on a lot of one night stands...don't want him to end up with the clap! I am surprised Don hasn't yet -- or the syph! You'd think by now with all his philandering, he (Don) would have at least had to deal with a raging case of "crabs"! Ha! Let's face it, it would serve him right!

I just want Sal to be happy. I do feel kinda sorry for Kitty....I think she loves him a lot.

I think Sal will keep his sexy little secrets and Ms. Kitty too! He's so sensative and just wants to be able to get it on a little here and there. Did you see how fast he said I have a wife, when the guy asked if they had a family?

thank you for the comment Z

I couldn't help but gasp when Don found out. I knew he would from the moment he went down the fire escape. I was afraid for a moment but then realize Don was a man of secrets himslef. so I knew he would keep Salvatore's secret.

my only fear now is this might send Salvatore deeper into the closet. after all from what i understand that was Sal's first time acting on it.

I'm happy for Sal too. It's one thing to suppress who you were (our boy Don) and who you are - Sal. Although the scene was a little intense for Mad Men I applaud it. I was very pleased with Don's reaction, mostly because I knew he would accept it.
Don sure is building up some loyal employees at Sterling Cooper (Peggy, now Sal, and Pete in a strange way)

I think Don showed great understanding and sensitivity by letting Sal known on the plane coming back that all he should be concerned about is being discrete. How clever of him to convey that message through sharing his brilliant new ad idea for London Fog with Sal. In fact the little episode with Sal in the hotel may have given Don the ad idea in the first place.

I thought the Sal scene was way too graphic. I am not so sure Don would really be comfortable with the knowledge now, after all it was very taboo for that era. Don't get me wrong, I do like the Sal subplt though.

I also think Sal's scene was too graphic. Hopefully, this show won't become another forum for Homo's to shove their lifestyles down our throat. The scene would have played without the bell boy playing with Sal's junk.

Don's face as he realized Sal and the bellhop had something going on, followed moments later by the bare leg of the stew coming right beside Don's head - who had the right to be judgemental? Great scene.

The look on Sal's face in the airplane when he realizes Don doesn't care/won't tell was priceless. You can tell that no matter what kind of inter office turmoil may break out, Sal is riding with Don till the wheels fall off.

true, Don was walking down the fire escape with a naked girl in a raincoat. maybe that's where he got the idea for the add

I have always thought of myself as open minded and I have gay friends but am just not comfortable with men kissing onscreen
and I agree with others about Sal's impeccable manners and class
I would prefer more subtlety

I love Sal.....he's got a kind of slightly overblown, overly detailed look that appeals to me. His clothes are just a little too perfectly chosen, his manners just a little too good. Always a hint of secret self-loathing in his eyes. I found the hotel room scene with the bell boy a little much, especially, as another person said, the business with his hand in Sal's pants. But Sal is a man who tamps down his impulses, and maybe the writers wanted to show just how revolutionary it would be for Sal to be the recipient of an aggressive sexual advance. I remember that scene from Season 1, with the Belle Jolie guy, the one who touched his hand at the restaurant.....given the rational choice, Sal can't go there, but when handsome stranger you'll never see again walks up and sticks his lips on your lips and his hand down your pants, maybe that's just the kind of thing to make you fly into a million pieces.

I'm so glad Matt put that scene in. I really think he did it to disabuse the old neanderthals that think the show is a walk down memory lane of the good old days when men were men and women and blacks were second class citizens. This is a progressive, not regressive, show, and he's making that clear.

The future is inevitable...and is very applicable to day.

I like it, even if it is making people uncomfortable. That's the point---change can be uncomfortable until you get used to the concept. People felt the SAME way about watching a black man and a white woman kiss. That scene in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was quite controversial.

What world do some of you folks live in???

Too graphic?

The whole premise of the show is a look into the lives of others...the stuff you approve of AND things you find distastful.

Someday...Sal's gonna be a HUGE queen...sloshing around the house in an orange caftan. He will be more or less happy. But, he won't get there on his own. He needs an agressor.

Exactly...he is what he is, but the repression is keeping him from being his true self.

Change happens in fits and starts sometimes--and sometimes it's triggered by an accelerant or catalyst--but it was inevitable.

Hey, we watch graphic hetero sex all the time, I have no problem watching gay sex (or maybe no sex sometimes, b/c I think it can be gratuitous perioid, but if you're going to show hetero, nothing wrong with showing gays as well once in a while, particularly to drive a point home or desensitize stigma).

In an attempt to attract a wider audience, my feeling is the creators of Mad Men have abandoned the outstanding characters and subtle writing of the previous two seasons in favor of pc shock value. The opening scene with talk of cutting off dicks, Sal's gay hotel room scene, Don jumping in bed with some ditzy stewardess (letting all the new viewers know that Don is a stud, with none of the previous build up to his complex relationships). So much of the episode appeared to be written by people who never watched the first two seasons. Or the writers have been instructed to dumb down things in a pop culture way so more people will watch. I love the show and will continue to watch and hope that things improve.

pattyo, I agree completely. I will keep watching, too, hoping things improve.

Amen Gavin and Betty. People show up on our boards and are too afraid to register so they show up at "Anonymous" and make nasty and hateful comments about homosexuals.

We have watched Don abuse and sexualize women for two season. Sal finally gets to be loved and explore his true self and its "too graphic" and shoving the homos down your throat?

What planet are you from? I bet if it was two chicks you wouldn't be complaining. What a double standard.

I know what you mean AdGal,

trust me the scene with Sal was not as bad as what they show on shows like "queer as folk" it was just two guys kissing and one reaching his hand down his pants. not like we saw it *sad face*

in short yes this is a show about an ad agency in the 1960s but its made in the year 2009. if it were made the way shows were in the 1960s we would see Sal not as a closeted gay man but a confirmed bachelor like uncle Arther on bewitched.

bump

Great episode! Don is still the man and Joan is still sexy. But I can do with less man-on-man action. Women kissing each other on TV is acceptable in our current culture, but I don't think men kissing each other on TV will ever be "cool" or acceptable to the majority of American men or women. Sorry. I was wondering when the producer would pop this on us and continue pushing his life long agenda of desensitizing Americans to gay men kissing on TV. I'm sorry, but no matter how many times I see that, I'll never one day say, "oh, cool, two dudes getting it on." Isn't ever gonna happen. But still, what a great show! Let's just tell the producer, "hey we did it, we shoved your two-guys-getting-it-on into the faces of millions of Americans, now let's move on." :-)

i don't see why this is any worse than the philandering scenes rampant in all the seasons or why gay men kissing isn't acceptable but women kissing is.
i personally don't like watching anyone make out or have sex on screen, i think its a private act. but this is a show and its depicting what happens in peoples lives--so you either accept it or stop watching.
as for the person saying they hope this doesn't become a forum 'for homos to shove their lifestyle down our throats'.
wow, bigot much?
keep your hateful words to yourself and grow up.

The scene makes a lot of sense to me from a historical perspective. It wasn't until the 70's that white gay men of that social class in New York City stopped marrying. He was drunk and probably horny as all hell - and the bellhop was cute.

I couldn't disagree more, John. How hypocritical of you! Women kissing is okay but not men? Why? Because men like you are pigs and you like to exploit women but can't handle the reality of men loving each other?

I can understand the other arguments here but yours is just idiotic!

I have been so excited about the season premiere. Much to my surprise, I had to change the channel. Why would you think the public would like to be subject to seeing deviant behavior on such an awesome show? The story lines, the props, the theme all stood alone. And then you take it to a porn level? How sad for those actors who had to follow direction of the shock factor on a show that did not need it. You have lost me as a fan. I am so sorry you had to reduce yourselves to this level. Abnormal acts between same sex is deviant and should be pitied, not glorified.

I thought this part of the show was by far the best acting and most interesting scene in the whole show. Sal is my favorite and my heart goes out to this character so much. To have to live your whole life not being able to be truly be yourself and always have a part of you hidden breaks my heart. I mean the man is not the youngest character on the show and for that to be his first homosexual experience is just sad to me.

I don't understand how you can call this cramming homosexuality down your throat when homosexuals have been forced to live a lifestyle that they are not comfortable with for ages. It's just one character's story line of many on the show. Don't worry, I'm sure 90% of the sexual content on this show will still be between a man and a woman. I have to say, I found the scene between Don and the flight attendant rather dull and meaningless compared to this.

Excellent acting by Bryan Batt. You could see every emotion in his head running across his face. :)

I am truly amazed at the double standard. It's okay for Don and others to play around with other men's wives, and for women to take what they can, but when Sal gets approached by another man we all go nuts (so to speak). I was in high school during the period portrayed in Mad Men, and from what I recall we were all pretty much oblivious to differences in lifestyles. I'm certainly not like that any more, and I would hope that many of us have outgrown our limited view of what is right and wrong and how people really live their lives.

Ellen

the show is in the 60's, maybe the foreplay is a little bit too freaky, but who cares? i love this show.

There is a lot of graphic sex in this show, and I don't see why Sal should miss out just because a few simpletons can't handle it. I'm shocked at the amount of homophobia in relation to ONE relatively small scene, and a scene that was well done too (I can't imagine anything so minor getting such a bitter reaction here). To me, it was far from "too graphic" - I have seen much more graphic scenes between a man and a woman and two women on US shows. It was well done, and comparitively discreet.

"Hopefully, this show won't become another forum for Homo's to shove their lifestyles down our throat".
Perhaps I should refrain from asking when "Homos" shoved anything down your throat, and just question why it's OK for someone like you to dictate what is, and what is not OK. People like you are still, today, in 2009 causing pain to fellow human beings because (here's the shocker) of what you are shoving down their throats as an "ideal" and "normal" lifestyle. Hiding such a big part of who you are, just for the sake of everyone else is something no human being should ever have to do. I don't know whether to be sickened or disappointed that anybody can lack compassion for someone in this situation, to be condemned to a miserable and lonely existence just because of philistines like you.

John: grow up. I bet you'd quite happily sit back and watch two "hot" lesbians make out. Do you know why gay men will never be acceptable together on TV? Because the (straight white) male dominated Media refuses to show it, because they are just like you. I am tired having hetero and lesbian sex shoved down my throat. Why are "hot" lesbians (and ONLY "hot" ones) and unattractive men sleeping with women way out of their league acceptable, but two men together are such an abomination? Because it's OK to fulfil the fantasies of straight heterosexual men, but unacceptable to include anyone else?

Don fingering women in public, Peggy and Pete on the office sofa, and Sal suffering in silence is when you can all gleefully sit back and enjoy the show, but when he (drunkenly?) finally acts on what he truly wants, suddenly it's time to start cursing the writers and producers for being so disgusting and graphic. I love Mad Men, but I certainly don't want to regress back into the social norms and attitudes of the 1960s. I'd like to have equal pay at work, to be able to go there without being harassed by sexual predators like Roger, and to live my life freely as a human being without fear of reprisal. I applaud everyone involved with the show for writing, acting and filming this, and AMC for showing it. It obviously took a lot of courage to do so, and I'm glad. It is time we moved on and stopped pandering to the neanderthals among us.

I am far from against more action for Sal (not least to irritate these plebs further) - If someone like Sal exists on a show like Mad Men, he shouldn't be hidden from view to keep bigots from complaining. Like Southern Belle says - it's about peoples lives. You accept it, or you do what most grown-ups do and just stop watching.

I'm going to take a different tack, and post-modern sensibilities be damned...one of the charms of Mad Men is the depiction of the era that included and was largely created as the apex of the American male. The show brilliantly displays the post-war boom of wealth, fashion, science, and manic consumption. Like their 19th century industrialist forbears, the capitalists reigned and threw their skyscrapers and rockets skyward, fought the Commies, and patted the cigarette girl on the rear in ritzy joints. They drank too much, smoked ridiculously, often underappreciated the women of the day, and not infrequently sacrificed their families to their careers and individual ambitions. And for all their faults, they created the opulence and engine from which we still derive so much ease. The pre-mod men laid the bridge to the moon, put a TV in every home, and obviously appreciated femininity like no one has since. They were flawed, often screwed up, like Don and Roger, but they knew who they were and what they wanted. They had not succumbed to 1960's feminization, or the Oprahfication that was to follow. For their darknesses and contradictions, they did not go on 'Dr Phil' to wail about their feelings, or FaceBook about how hard life was. They took pride in pursuing a male standard of toughness and stoicism. It was that environment that makes Sal's conflicts so tragic, and the depiction of his ennui and inner war was handled gracefully - until now. The men and women of the Mad Men generation knew as well, if not better than anyone, how they were defined by their contrasts to each other, not mindless pursuits of "diversity" for its own sake. The gratuitousness of Sal's hotel grope, unlike Don and Bobbi at the restaurant, struck at the core of this difference not to celebrate the distinctive manliness of the day, but the blur the standard. Yes I know, that is eventually what happened. But along with the real progress in some areas from the buttoned-down era, we also suffered some real losses. To borrow from Don, I really wish Weiner would have limited his exposure, and let us enjoy a brief nostalgic respite. You can read more here:
http://web.me.com/wickedgrin1/Screaming_Fitz/Highly_Cultured/Entries/2008/11/9_A_Feel_Good_moment_!.html

Sal has a "premature" problem.
Also, for what it's worth Don is no Brad Pit in the looks department regarding women throwing themselves at him. Sorry. I'm from then. I wouldn't have.

The Sal scene is being described as love? How many of these couplings has resulted in a love child do you really think? Without the name throwing, why can't hetero's be able to have their strong beliefs without being labeled any kind of "phobe"? Isn't that calling the kettle black? I don't think we'd all be here today on this forum talking about this if, like God created us, our own parents had heterosexual intercourse which produced human fruitage not immoral carnage for the screen that Matthew frames as perverse entertainment.

Yes, I so enjoy the character of Sal. And almost feel his internal angst about his identity. How sad to know that so many lived in this pain during that time. Remember the movie "Far from heaven"? Powerful story about a woman married to a gay man. And the only person she can confide in is her black landscaper, and they fall in love. And the gay husband lives in lonliness, Gosh, I love Madmen for challenging us all to capture a moment of what it must have been like living out these issues back then. Hey, I hear the network is thinking about bringing on known actors like George Clooney onto the show. I really hope not. The major part of the mystique for me is seeing unknowns play these roles. Almost makes these stories all the more real when you can't really place these individuals/actors in any particular role. Just people acting out these powerful characters and taboo'd issues. KEEP THE UNKNOWN ACTORS COMING AND EMPLOYED. Love you Madmen (Matt Weiner).

Quoted: "By Anonymous on August 17, 2009 2:06 AM

I also think Sal's scene was too graphic. Hopefully, this show won't become another forum for Homo's to shove their lifestyles down our throat. The scene would have played without the bell boy playing with Sal's junk."

This is how to take a scene and make it something it isn't.
Hopefully, this forum won't become another place for Heteros to shove their lifestyles down our throat. The scene played well just as it was. Sorry homophobia got in this poster's way!

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