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Talk is a public forum where you can ask questions and share your commentary with fellow Mad Men fans.
Language slip?
Was it just me or did Don slip back into Dick (or even Archie) Whitman-speak when he referred to Betty's father as a "sumbitch" - at least I think that's what I heard. They were in the car after dinner, Betty telling him there was a problem with her dad and Don asks "you mean other than he's a sumbitch?" Folks with captioning or better ears - please clarify. It just sounded less like Don and more like something Archie'd say.
I thought he said curmudgeon
I like to watch with the captioning on, but last night when Pete was talking about his ancestor, the captioning said Stagman, when of course Pete said Dyckman (a well known Old Dutch name in NYC)
I'm not sure who does that captioning, but it is probably the same techie who set up these blogs. Uh-oh, am I allowed to say that ?
Don told Betty (regarding Gloria's leaving Gene), "maybe she finally realized what a sonofabitch he is." I'm paraphrasing. Did anyone else hear Betty use the word "bullshit?" Didn't think they could say that on AMC!
Am I the only one who thought this episode sucked? I was frankly bored. I've been disappointed in the first two episodes, and I'm an original blogger and Maddict from the beginning. I am not at all interested in this English angle, and the characters seem rather lifeless right now. I hope MM isn't losing its grip. Anyone else?
I just wonder how long they can tolerate her father in the house
with betty being pregnant and all
Don did call Gene a sonofabitch. And Betty did say "bullshit". I think the new regulations say that on basic cable you can get away with one "shit" if it's rated "TV14".
Gail- I think the pace is pretty slow right now, but there's a lot of loose ends from last season to tie up and new stories to set up. I felt that way about the first 2-3 episodes of last season, but it eventually picked up in stride and got more interesting.
I thought Betty would've said "bushwa" - more in keeping with her class and the era. However our Betty has quite a vocabulary.
I find it amusing when folks worry how Betty is going to handle a third child AND her father - heck, she'll do what she always does, leave it to Carla. We've seen Carla get the kids dressed and off to school in the morning (after fixing breakfast), tidy up and do the dishes, help with the parties, etc. Yes, Betty can make spaghetti (did she make the meatloaf, too?) but she does spend a lot of time lunching with friends, shopping, riding until she got too pregnant and so on. I don't remember my mother having that kind of time for herself but then we traveled in less lofty circles. My mother always said she needed a wife, lol.
I think something is "off", too, but this episode was better than the season premier. Hopefully, they'll pick up speed with each week.
I'm with Gail, I have been bored to tears with the first two episodes. The writing isn't as tight as it was in the first two seasons. I am optimistic it can recover, but please hurry up.
Gail: I heard BS too. Are you from NJ? I'm sure there are a few Gail Klein's out there, but just wondering. I'm pretty upset with the first two eps, as well. They almost lost me on the 1st one, but I'm a suck for Hamm!
I loved this episode, but then I would as I've always disliked the way women are portrayed in the media. Weiner rightly shows a bunch of horny guys choosing to put out an image of what they'd like to see, even if the ad is supposed to appeal to women. As a journalist, I once interviewed a top ad guy in London, and he told me that guys just love the casting sessions and photo shoots. He said that that was why there were so many nude women used in adverts for women's products. Well, at least in the UK in the late 80's - early 90's.
Aside from that, I loved that Peggy is developing. Can't wait to see further changes with her.
Just watched it again, and I hear "son of a bitch". He kind of mumbled it as not to completely piss off Betty.
She keeps bringing up "her condition" as a way to end a conversation, or get her way. She is so, so selfish.
Zabadu, Betty is pregnant after all, and the hormones are raging. I think January is doing a great job. I loved Don's line about eating something, "That baby's going to weigh a pound."
Gail, I thought this episode was better than last week, a lot happened actually. Although I could have done without the Peggy/college guy kissing - I just don't like kissyface scenes. If I'm not one of the 2 people involved, I don't care to know about it. Nothing more boring than listening to people smooch.
I'm already bored with the British invaders - I hope SC buys itself back. Maybe Don's comment about Madison Sq Garden - "Why did you buy us anyway?" will make the Brits reconsider. I
Mickey&Gail - I'm glad you said it first. The 1st 2 episodes have been disappointing. I thought perhaps it was because I am, for the 1st time, watching a season as it is broadcast (I watched the 1st 2 seasons on DVD - watching 2-3 episodes at a sitting). The shows this year seem to jump around more, without progressing much. I do suspect (and sincerely hope) this is setup for later shows in the season.
StephanieJo: I grew up in West Hartford, CT and have lived in New York City for 32 years. I'm sure there's lots of other Gail Kleins out there!
Here's hoping next week's episode will be better!
Like many of you, I'm not finding much comfort in season 3.....The commercial interuptions in episode 2 were more than aggrivating, I found the breaks quite jarring and it only emphasised the herky jerky editing.... After an encore viewing and more thot, I believe it was all part of the plan to put us all on notice that life is waaaaay different than we have known it in '60 and '62...
I'm feeling anxious and unsettled just like the employees at the new SC......We even saw some of the effects on Don who never looses his cool composure.... Remeber his 'stumble' w/ the ashtray in his own office when Pryce is announced?
Everybody is on edge and either waiting for the next
round of firings or just frustrated in the attempt to do the work for a foreign management team who may or may not put any value in the efffort...
Good work MW, I'm feelin it too....
Everyone, just remember that the first two or three episodes of S2, everyone was complaining about how boring, how slow things were going, that nothing happened.
And then Don had his first encounter with Bobbi... :-)
The Dykeman's were never more than peasant poltroons. They were called Jankes -Yankees. It means like a little Yan, a Dutch name. Of course, Jankes can also mean a yapping dog.
Whether he said it not, I think “sumbitch” would be the kind of term one would almost prefer to “son of a bitch” because those words sound ruder if you say them separately. Besides, “Mad Men” at other times goes too far in dressing up ordinary conversations in formal language whereas everyday speech was just as loose then as it is now. (I was born in 1951.)
There is an article by linguist John McWhorter about “Mad Men” in the September 1st issue of The New Republic.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/john-mcwhorter/mad-men-good-place-how-did-people-sound-1963
McWhorter points out that people making speeches or reading the news on TV in the early ‘60s sounded very proper, but in ordinary conversation, everyone--even the upper classes--used contractions and slang, exactly as most people do today.
McWhorter even includes a link to a recording of President Kennedy in a private conversation where the Harvard-educated president says “yeah” instead of “yes” and, if you listen closely, he even says “makin’” instead of “making.”
There’s also a telling reader’s comment appended to McWhorter’s article by someone criticizing him for saying, “Until the late sixties, there was a sense that language was to be cossetted and dressed up in public in the same way that one wore deodorant.” The objection made is that “I was around in the early to mid-sixties and never felt the conversations I had or overheard then were cossetted and dressed up.” Huh? McWhorter clearly intended “public” to mean formal occasions, not private conversations. It goes to show how easy it is for us to be misunderstood even when we have used language as precisely as we can.
As to SallyD's experience with captioning, I recall seeing "Stagman" in the caption instead of "Dyckman" (Dykeman?) and I chalked it up to the captioner making a mistake. That name came up in season one and it should have always been the "D" name. However, I also recently watched the very first episode from season one and noticed that the captioning said Joan's last name was "Rawlings" instead of "Holloway," the latter being the name that was actually spoken in the scene and ever since--until her marriage at least. In that case, I speculate that the captioner was referring to the original script.
I have long noticed that captions sometimes seem to reflect earlier versions of the script in at least three ways:
1 Words or names seem to be changed in the final script or by ad libbing actors.
2 Lines that obviously seem unnecessary are sometimes left out by the actors but retained in the captioning.
3 Songs or music identified in the captions does not match what is actually heard on the sound track; either they couldn't get the rights to the music they wanted or they decided that a different song would fit better.