Betty's dad sure has Don nailed dead to rights ("you can't trust him - he's got no people"). If Betty had listened to him she would not be in for such a big heartbreak. He looks like John McCain. What a coincidence because if America would have taken McCain's advice, we would not be in such bad shape.

Thanks for sharing your political views.

You are welcome. mctwisty, the 60s were a time of political upheaval. Mad Men delves into politics. Just thought I'd share. No more political comments from me. Friends?

No problem.

Cool. I can't wait for Sunday.

In the preview, Don looks really bored at dinner with the English guy.

We can share our political views on this Forum? Well, why didn't somebody say so. Here I've been wasting my time telling you all how much I like Mad Men, and I could have been enlightening the world with my political views. Now, let's see, I know I have some...where did I leave them....oh, yeah, they're under the couch....ooooh, look at all the dust bunnies....Who originally said the following:

"Some men see things as they are and say, "Why?" I dream of things that never were and say, "Why not?" "

Robert Kennedy quoting George Bernard Shaw.

I hope there are no moderators or wannabe moderators on this board.

There's a whole bunch of them Loves Mad Men.

What happened to Betty's stepmother? Did she decide her husband is too much to handle and leave?

I thought it was Teddy Kennedy when he gave Bobby's eulogy.

Hey Pete, mind pasing the chippy-n-dip?

Here's the description of the upcoming episode:

Betty gets a visit from her father. Sterling Cooper grapples with a very specific client request. Roger makes arrangements for a wedding. Peggy becomes personally affected by a campaign

Some predictions:
- Betty’s father will be in even worse shape with his dementia than before and Betty may try to talk Don into moving her father in with them.
- Don won’t be able to please either a new potential client or an existing one and loses an account – that’s the bad news he gets from Pryce.
- Roger butts heads with his daughter over his daughter’s up-coming wedding. She doesn’t like having a step-mom who’s her age.
- Peggy gets hit on by a client she’s working for and doesn’t know what to do about it.

And Mctwisty wins!

Mctwisty, you may take home that lovely ant farm from Moneypenny's former office, OR you can go for what is behind Door Number Three OR you can try for the grand prize by identifying the source of the following quote:

"Ya know, you see a girl a couple of times a week, just for laughs, and right away they think you're gonna divorce your wife. Now I ask you, is that fair?"

Polar Bear: Well, if we want to get technical, JFK first quoted it in 1963 in a speech. Bobby made it his campaign theme and would often quote Shaw’s words. Ted quoted his brother’s “favorite saying” in his eulogy.

Hanna: My predictions:
-Betty's fathers wife has given up because he's gotten much worse. I see Betty asking her brother to shoulder that load.
-Roger has second thoughts about marrying Jane and giving up his first family.
-Don has to decide if he's going to stay at SC under the new reign after being either pushed out of a deal or a client.
-Peggy displays behavior we wouldn't expect from her. And she likes it.
-Joan poisons Dr. Rapist. Okay, that's my fantasy, but I hope she does something really harsh.

Easy Zerelda - Fred McMurray to Jack Lemmon in The Apartment, after Miss Kublick tries to commit suicide!!

Come on, did I win? Huh, did I?

zabadu - I hope Roger does have an "Oh crap, what have a done?" moment and realizes that Jane was a mistake. Mona is a classy lady and doesn't deserve what she got. And if only Joan would have the same realization about Dr. Date Rape too. I like your fantasy - maybe she can take a note from one of those crazy soap operas she read to enact her revenge...

I really think Roger will regret what he did, but may not be able to win Mona back. She and the daughter are pretty pissed. I still hope Joan figures out a way to kill him. Maybe Roger would leave Jane for Joan. Maybe Roger saves Joan!! That would be a really cool and nice twist.

Zerelda is making me squirm!! I want to know if I won her contest!!

Well, Zabadu, your prize is a lifetime supply of Secor Laxative. HOWEVER, if you wish, you can trade that prize for what is behind Door Number Two, OR you can try for the Grand Prize by correctly identifying the source of the following quote, either by actor or movie title:

"You remember how it really was? You and me and booze - a threesome. You and I were a couple of drunks on the sea of booze, and the boat sank. I got hold of something that kept me from going under, and I'm not going to let go of it. Not for you. Not for anyone. If you want to grab on, grab on. But there's just room for you and me - no threesome."

zerelda - Laxatives? You're cold! ;) You should start a new thread with your quote game. I'd hate to see what are your prizes would be, though. A Sara Lee birthday cake (still frozen)? A chip n' dip? A crate of creme de menthe?

Grr. I meant "all your prizes" .

Oh come on Zerelda, give me a hard one!!

Days of Wine and Roses!! Lemmon and Remick...right?

I see you picked my prize from another thread!!

Ah, I see you turned up you nose at the laxatives and Door Number Two and went straight for the Grand Prize.

Wise choice, Zabadu, as the Grand Prize consists of an all expenses paid, two night stay at the lovely Belvedere Hotel in beautiful downtown Baltimore. When not climbing down the fire escape looking into windows for people you know, perhaps you would care to partake of the fine dining experience to be had at Haussner's Restaurant. Their Hasenpfeffer with Spaetzle (marinated rabbit to you and me) is said to be a gustatory delight.

YAY! Does a bellboy come with the deal? Or does the Grand Prize actually include a night with our favorite philanderer? I'd walk a fire escape for that!!

Um, if zerelda included a night with Don into the prize, does that make her his pimp?

Nah, I'm sure she could pawn that off on Sterling Cooper.

Can't wait to taste the Hasenpferrer...

Ok. Sorry, my mind fell in the gutter for a moment. I'm back now. :)

Was there really a SECOR LAXATIVE?

I wonder if "SECOR" might not be MM code for "SERUTAN" which I remember frrom the 60's.

Remember?

Pssst, it's "Nature" spelled backwards!

Hanna, you should be ashamed of where your mind led you!!

Excuse me?!? If Zerelda could include Don Draper in the prize, it would be grand, indeed, and she would keep it for herself. Zerelda is no fool.

Can my bellboy be straight then?

zabadu - I know. It's a shameful thing, my mind. Maybe I should try to get the number of Betty's shrink.

Careful with that shrink...he talks....

Hasenpferrer...I think we have a new word for ol' Don...

Excuse me, but I have dibs on the bellboy!

Hmmm. That trip to Baltimore is shaping up to be pretty interesting!

Scotch & Soda: You're right you know, but the rules are that you can't talk politics. Unless of course your remarks are liberal pro-Obama of course. Then it's fine. Just so you know. :)

Well, I for one do not object to talking politics. The give and take of civilized conversation is something I enjoy enormously. Notice I said civilized. Mean spirited rants and lengthy diatribes are just boring. That is why I abhor the professionals like Rush Limbaugh. He may have a good point now and then, anything is possible, but how to find it amongst all the pompous "I'm right and you are wrong" windbaggage.

I think there is a difference between discussing politics and making a political statement like the very first post. It's pretty obvious what "side" the first poster is coming from, and that kind of comment has nothing to do with Mad Men's political time frame.

If you're honest though, you have to admit that if the poster mentioned McCain and then compared him to Betty's dad as also being feeble or demented, it woulld have gone over big with some posters. I'm just saying....

Ha! Yeah, I guess you're right.

As my late father would say, "even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

Hey Laurie! Don't tell me there's actually another conservative (well, actually a moderate) on here!

Yay!

SC Fan: Yes indeed, that's me! I'm sure there are many more out there, but haven't "come out of the closet" so to speak :) They're starting to, though.

@Lily Oei: Are you on staff with AMCTV? Why is this Episode 2 Thread up already?

I was reading about some in Hollywood....let's see...Robert Duvall, Tom Selleck, Jon Voight, Gary Sinise, Toby Keith, Kelsey Grammer, Dennis Hopper, Pat Heaton, Ted Nugent, John Stossel, Chuck Norris, Andy Garcia, Dennis Milller, Adam Sandler, Robert Downey, Jr....(probably a lot more who are still closeted!)

I am definitely more moderate than right-wing conservative....but, definitely not liberal....

Laurie B: I really think it should have been left off until tomorrow. I mean, everyone is using it for nothing more than "Open Mic Night at the Comedly Club" with each poster trying to out-repartee the other one. It has nothing to do with Mad Men. People often get angry at others because they don't READ all the posts before commenting. What, we have to wade through 100 or so posts by tomorrow's episode just to get to the ones actually dealing with the show? This seems a bit counter-productive.

MadAve342...don't you have a scroll button?

I don't mean that in a snarky way, but, that is what a scroll button is for after all.

You're entitled to your opinion (straightforward Mad Men-only posts) but, we who like a little variety/comedy interspersed with our Mad Men information are also entitled to ours.

Okay...I'm ready...shield up...fire away....

Scotch and Soda as in the drink or as the Carnegie Mellon University all college shows?

Seriously SC, I agree with you 100%.

I just tried to watch E2 video... is that Embeth Davidtz playing Lane Pryce's wife? It sure looks like her. If it is, she's a remarkable actress...Schlinder's List, Matilda, Mansfield Park and many more.

SCFan: I think you missed my point, but no matter. Um, I am not about to fire back at you. To me, that is not the point of the board or these threads. When that starts, it ruins everything. I have one opinion and you another. End of story. Thanks for responding anyway.

I'll always be your greatest fan, SCfan. ;o) Cheers.

Zerelda: I sincerely hope you were not offended for being taken to task for being funny. I thought your posts in this thread were hysterical. Hanna, Auburn Annie, thanks for your predictions on Episode 2 as well. SC, as always, your posts are spot on.

I will make this sentence bold so everyone will know they can scroll to the bold post to skip all of the jocularity prior to the "official" opening of the Episode 2 thread. START HERE.

Lilly Oei,
She has dated this thread August TWENTY EIGHTH!!!12:23 pm... So I'm thinking she wanted the weekend off. Oh well, it's nice see to all of you regulars kicking stuff around. The episode one thread is getting to be a bit redundant at times. It doesn't matter to me what y'all talk about. Just killing time till tomorrow night!

Hidey there, Drink!...as always, just as classy as that fellow in your av, sir.

You are one cool cat!

I guess my "problem" is that I've just never understood how humor "ruins" the forum. Just as in life, what's wrong with a few laughs? In this world, it sure can't hurt! Most of the Maddicts strike a nice balance (of humor and Mad Men discussions) to my mind. I believe the wonderful "mix" we have here of both is what makes this forum so irresistable and addictive. JMO

Oh well...

When I saw this (Episode 2) I was really frustrated! I just got on this dang site after a week of trying to register and post! What is the deal with this site anyway? I kept trying to put in screen names and passwords and nothing worked! Then, I see Episode 2 and I think, wait a second, did I miss this too? I have never been to a site that is so utterly frustrating to get onto! Well, I am finally here (exhausted), and I guess I will wait to post something until after the episode airs. To even post about the first episode at this point seems a waste of time since it is almost time for episode 2. Hope I can get back on. Has anyone else experienced problems with this site? I can't be the only one.

SC: Judging from past posts, I think the people who dislike the humor on the site actually don't have any humor themselves.

You just may be right there, zab....

I know that during the off-season, we all had a pretty good time. We were definitely silly and foolish and goofy....I for one wouldn't have had it any other way.

Signed,

Erda Mae (Inside Joke -- sorry)

SCfan - I agree about humor on the forum. After a while you feel a camaraderie with other bloggers and it's fun to joke with them. I'm sorry if other people don't like the joking or conversational style of the open thread, but they can skip posts that aren't directed at them or that they don't feel compelled to comment on. I certainly don't read every post, and wouldn't expect others to either. Hopefully people can be kind to others who repeat questions or comments, especially when the thread gets super long. :)

Well, this may get some fuming...a thread back in the summer ~~ "Could We Conduct Today's Business on Yesterday's Whiskey Intake?" (scroll way back) ~~ which rasputin so earnestly posted with all good intentions...not his fault the depths to which that one descended! It was both Off Topic AND silly-with-no-ties-to-Mad-Men.....Scandalous!

But, I thought it was fun, ...only 57 posts so easy to read through....we were SO bored! Please forgive us!

Signed,

Erda Mae/Scfan

P.S. Doolah Rae and Jethrene and Colonel Obelzer, are you there???

Too bad the thread with the link to the old 1941 Fletcher's Castoria ad is buried so far back there...

("healing power of Mad Men")...oops....swore I wouldn't .....oh well.... no soup for me....

Disclaimer: If you don't want to laugh, don't scroll back to that thread and definitely don't click that link!

......and don't read the comments below the ad...they would surely cause a meltdown....

Gee Monty are you saying date rape is acceptable? After all your comments in one postwithout having all the facts....and then to make it sound like you think that...boy.do you have some 'splainin' to do!

Laurie B., you are exactly right. I lurked here last season when that episode aired.

Monty: I may have been born in 1961, which makes me about the same age as the writer, but I also do extensive studies of women's magazines from the 1950s and 1960s and can tell you that you're dead wrong.

If you truly think these are "stereotypes", then you best go back and study the women's magazines of the times. You haven't a clue what the "middle America" wife/daughter anticipated or dealt with back then.

I'd post a bunch of examples, but I don't want to waste the boards time, but I suggest you bone up on your studies.

@MadAve 342: Hahhh. "Open Mike Night"... that's a good one. Maybe there shuold be a thread called ""Ramblings to Kill Time 'tween Episodes" or something, because that's what this is. But so what.. it's fun. If you've been here for any length of time, you know that many of us have gotten to "know" one another so to speak and have shared stories on all kinds of topics.
@SCFan: That list of conservatives is a pretty cool group... I'm honored to be among "their kind". A growing segment of conservatives, BTW is African Americans.

Right on, Laurie....that is very true.

Laurie, remember when someone posted (sorry -- CRS again -- can't recall who) that we needed a thread called "Boring, Off-Topic Senseless Banter" (that's far from the clever wording they thought of...can't remember it exactly) Seems like it was either Dry or Chelsea, not sure....

I totally agree....of course, we'd end up posting off-topic somewhere else anyway most likely...esp. me.

Rasputin, Nature spelled backwards is "Erutan."
Maybe I can ask my mom about Secor. She was an expert on such things. (Although, have they ever named a product that wasn't authentic? That's part of the magic of the show.)

I think part of the problem with the writer is that he doesn't know what he doesn't know. That's why he needs old folks like me to set him straight.

We shouldn't feel bad about bantering. The forum is a community of Maddicts, and we like to chat, banter, joke, AND analyze the show. People are sure to go off on tangents and have "off-topic" discussions, but what's "off-topic" if it's related to MM or the going-on of the forum? We don't need to make a new thread every time we want to have a conversation with someone specific - then people would complain that there are too many threads being made (which I believe was why the Open Thread was created in the first place). The Open Thread is going to remain a big fat mess until someone comes up with a fantastic solution. Just wade through it and try to have fun!

Again, the people who have a problem with the off-topic, humorous stuff don't appear to have a sense of humor.

Ahm heah. Whaddyawant??

Confound it! Must be mah ole folks disease! Ah thought ah was YEW fer a minute!

Well, someone here seems to have a sense of humor....

I'm actually enjoying this pre-show banter a little more than the real thing...much lighter and no bashing!

Anyone care to guess the source of the following quote:

"I go in for those prize contests. "How Shinette Shampoo changed my life" in 20 words or less. They give free trips to Europe, but I end up with the fountain pens and the Japanese binoculars."

Winner gets one of Haussner's famous strawberry pies. Here is a hint: it is from a movie that came out in 1963.

I know this one too, but I'll let some other people go for the prize. I am busy tasting my Hasenpferrer.

Just saw a "sneak peek" promo for tonight's episode - Roger calls Joan "Mrs. Harris"....

I...

I did it....

I came here....

I didn't want to but I gave in to peer pressure.... I'm here... be gentle....

Fear not, Greg. We shall be gentle with you!

15 minutes until activation of this thread. All previous posts can be ignored...

Looking forward to seeing the show tonight

I win!! I said the wife left the father!!

Well, there's your JFK reference folks....

You were right Zabadu!! good call. Now are they really going to cast a gal singer for a soft drink on this episode?

Does Don (or Jon) look extremely tired, his hair looks strange...is this on purpose. How far in advance are these shows shot?

.....Still two hours (plus) to go for those of us on the West Coast with cable.....

Don't worry about us - we'll be fine - not spoiled or anything!

No, not spoiled at all. And not bitter either! 2 hours and 15 minutes. (sniff, sniff)

I'm in LA and I'm watching it--7pm.

We can gather here after the show and chat

Wow, Betty's brother is such a wimp for caving in to Don's demands!

Betty is still slugging the booze and chain smoking. That kid will be lucky to have its health.

Don't you guys get the 7pm feed? That's what we get here in CA....

I hate Ann-Margaret.

Loved Peggy's line:"... a girl who's 25 and acts like she's 14"

So Roger's daughter's wedding is scheduled for the day after the Kennedy assassination. And Don's comments about Penn Station, so "urban renewal." Can't quite figure out what is going on between Peggy and Don, who are natural allies. Is there some tension? If so, why?

zabadu - In the NW they show a movie until 10, and then it's MM. Are you watching it on an HD channel or something?

Is it my imagination or is Bobby being played by a different actor now?

Nope, DirecTV. That sucks for you!!

But Peggy sure wanted to be that oh-so-pretty Anne Margaret! I hope I don't see Miss Moss by the pool tomorrow, I'm not happy with her in tonight's episode. I love Don, taking in Daddy!

I guess that's why when I comment it tells me it's getting approved by the blog manager? I've never had that happen before. Time difference?

Is it just me or is that wife of Lane's a real snobby witch? Did she say "insects"?

Whoa, Peggy! There goes Miss Nice Catholic Girl! Let's hear her next confession with Father Gill.

Oh no. Don and a grade-school teacher, grazing in the grass.

Was the Madison Square Garden guy supposed to be a composite largely composed of Rpbert Moses?

Roger's daughter's wedding scheduled for the day after JFK's assassination? Great start for a marriage.

O.K., somebody explain Don's hand in the grass at the Maypole ceremony while he watches the older girl dancing.

They tore down Penn Station and replaced it with another Madison Square Garden. The Station is below ground, and the Garden is above. I went to the Garden to see an ice show with Peggy Fleming (1968) and the Circus, which were nice, but yes, all of that great architecture is gone.

So glad there's a forum for my unabashed love of mm! "go with the bells ... I'll tell Jane." Oh my. Just, oh my.

Did anybody catch the name of that Lane's wife? I know her from something and have to IMDB her.

did anyone else notice that the date of Roger's daughter's wedding is the day after Kennedy gets shot? November 23, 1963....should make a very interesting plot line...

To many women here
Maybe that's the shows demographic

Oh boy, here we go again! This site has not worked for me except a short while last night. I just tried to sign on for ten minutes! And could not! This is the worst site.

Anyway, I was a little confused by tonight's episode. The second meeting (not the Patio meeting - and was that actually a real drink? If so, I never heard of it!) was vague and I could not figure out what was happening. Also, some of the dialogue seems cryptic. Don tells Peggy to keep some of her tools in her tool box. And what was that scene about with Roger and Peggy in the elevator? I didn't understand what he was talking about! And who was that woman Don kept staring at? The one who was leading the Maypole Dance with the children? He seemed transfixed.

I did enjoy seeing the Anne-Margaret clip however. Always liked her performances; thought she was under-rated and did so many other good performances. She was so sexy and could really sing and dance. Loved the movie "Bye, Bye Birdie." So fun! And such a great cast.

I was glad to see that Paul had the guts to stand up to the Madison Square Garden/Penn Station bully-client. The destruction of the McKim Mead & White 1904 Penn Station was a desecration of a beautiful piece of New York. There was such protest, and not, as the client insisted, just from a bunch of beatniks and commies, that the demise of the old Penn Station led to the establishment of the New York Landmarks Preservation Commission. And sorry, I meant "Robert Moses" in my last post.

Don to Peggy: "Leave some tools in your toolbelt." Does he think she's gay?Did she go pick up the stranger to prove she isn't? Or did she pick him for the "power" of it? She looked pretty smug when she left his apartment.

Niceguy, come on, with Jon Hamm...what woman could turn that off! lol But Bets looked absolutely beautiful when she was goin to lunch w/clients, all prego and all. She's stunning.

Man, Betty's father seems really far gone...can someone explain why he was pouring all the booze? It's great that Don has let him move in for a while (although you just know that Dad didn't want to) but this could get ugly...

Anyone recognize the bar in which the pick-up scene was shot tonite?

Could there be a better moment that Peggy singing Bye-Bye Birdie? Cringe-worthy, but I cannot suppress a guilty smile.

That'll be some fun wedding.... everyone weeping and watching TV in the bar.

Yeah, what was up with Don's hand in the grass? Somebody out of all you brilliant viewers, explain this.

Does anyone notice the avatars are missing? At least they are on my screen and it's talking forever to post! I guess I will always have trouble with this site.

Another question. Was that liquor Betty's father was pouring down the drain? So many things about tonight's episode were unclear to me including this. Almost would have rather seen a little more of "Bye Bye Birdie." Anne-Margaret was so cute in that flick!

I'm just guessing but Don being transfixed by the maypole dance...it was the woman he was transfixed with .May be he was working out an ad for the "Patio" drink.

sad, sad, sad
I love this show but I am starting to feel really depressed.
There is nothing but pure angst.
Occasionally, a zinger, but mostly unhappy people not learning from their mistakes.
Where is Peggy's brain? OK, I know, in her bra.
Betty is miserable, and the children are too young to have so little joy.
Joan is expanding with no explanation (I know it's coming; I just don't want to find out on Novemeber 23 how and why.)

Don and the lovely young teacher? The brightest scene of the night.

Now avatars are back. Whatever!

Peggy is just showing her green-eyed monster inside by 1st, watching Joan entertaining that pack of men in the office and wishing she could do that, then the Anne Margaret clip imitation. She's just wishing she had as many feminine 'wilds' as those chics.
The clips of both Bye-Bye Birtdie and then the maypole dance, were both just a little too long. I wonder if they're having trouble filling an hour. Aaron Spelling was a genius of the one-hour show!

Ok gang here we go:

This was my favorite part:

When Don and Roger are conversing at the bar, it's the same thing as when last season after Don socked Jimmy, Don and Roger went to another bar.
Their converstaion was all Roger, about, It's your life etc..
And when Mona came in to Don's office, she gave Don the business accusing Don of what Roger had said, even though Don didn't sya it, and Don in front of Mona had just taken the fall anyway.

Don got payback here, did you catch it? He said it right to Roger.

"You're words not mine"

Total reference to the hit Don took last year. Not a coincidence. Watch that dialogue again, and catch not only the words but the mood.

I'm really loving the depth of the Betty experiance (not to be confused with depth regarding Betty). What I mean is this: we got it in season one when it's only a boy Betty can confide in, and we all assumed it's a comment on Betty's immaturity. But guess what? Know what I'm thinking now? Betty is a woman who has no mature man around her.

She can't even trust her husband. She can trust her psychiatrist. She can't even create a lark and go ride horses without an immature struggling man messing with her. She can't confide in Dad bc Dad is basically gone. Jimmy Barret whom she liked the attention, yet he was bad too. And she can't confide in her brother either. Seriously, the Betty character is getting more depth. The only male is Glenn. It began as a comment on her, and I'm thinking it's gravitating into a comment on, actually, the men around her and how she's affected by that. Think about it.

Roger and Joan. What's interesting is the reality of those two. It's not a joke anymore. I think we've all been there, where we realize it's either me, or the other person doing it to me, where the fact is that one person doesn't appreciate what they have when they have it, yet, gets jealous when they don't have it anymore. We've all been there, whichever side. I think there's a point to be had with Roger and Joan, not just juicey stuff. seriously.

Now, given the above, I get the title "Love Among the Ruins"

I loved when Betty's brother said Don had nobody at their wedding. Remember last year when the Dad said ...."you have no people!"

Regarding Don/Betty's brother/and Dad: I really think, as much as it looks like Don Draper is making an effort toward Betty by doing something he really doesn't want to do when he confronts Betty's brother.... I think it's more than that. I think it's ultimately gonna be about Don will learn to regret his decision (i.e. in the middle of the night Betty's dad tossing the booze in the sink). The brotherr wanted out.. and Don wanted in, and I thik he'll regret it, that's why they did that scene with the sink the way they did. So as much as some will "awwww Don", I don't think it's over given the booze pouring scene.

I think Don will regret it, and the fact that Betty is snipping at him, or, snipping regarding him ( did you catch when Betty visits the office she says, 'how long will I have to wait this time' obviously catching on to one of the best scenes in season 1 about Betty and the portraits) isn't going to aid Don in his effort.
One last thing, but this is for the accuracyphiles:

In the offseason there was a live chat with MW and J Slattery. I was lucky enough that there weren't exactly a lot of people tuning in so I got 2 of my Qs answered by MW. I asked if he has ties to the Philly/S. Jersey area because he's done numerous references in the past, especially with Betty's Pop. He said he spent time between Philly/SE PA/ and Baltimore when he was young. Here, when Betty's dad shows up he says, Hey I went to Pat's, and started handing out cheesestakes.
I know that's is a ? moment for most folks here but it's about MW being totally accurate in those obscure things. Very good.

So What Y'all think of the scene when don's wife pushed him
and he pushed back( not with all this strength)?

Yes, I get that it was the woman he was transfixed by (not the maypole), but he seemed almost in another world watching her. And that hand in the grass thing. It was all too obscure at least for me. Hey, perhaps I need the simplicity of "Bye, Bye Birdie."

Favorite line of the night: "Oh look, Princess Grace swallowed a basketball!"

Second favorite line: "You're an Army man, Gene. Drop your socks and grab something."

Don at the May Day ceremony - note the hand under the chair, running his fingers through the cool grass - wasn't that along the lines of what he was telling Betty, only it was sand, not grass?

Guy in the bar - another lookalike for Pete?

And was that Gene flashing back to Prohibition days in the middle of the night, dumping booze down the sink?

Favorite family moment: Don, hearing the kids jumping on the bed (squeaking springs), opening the door and hollering "cut it out!" then picking up the conversation without missing a beat. Yep, that's my folks.

Anybody else thing the PPL/SC merger was a horrendous mistake that will be regretted on both sides sooner rather than later? Don was absolutely right, of course, about Madison Square Garden and 30 years' worth of revenue. Seems like PPL is very shortsighted or has no real clue on American advertising. "Who's running this place?" Good question. I don't think it's Pryce.

Joan keeps fiddling with those rings.

Can't decide what's going on with Don and Peggy. On this I side with Peggy. If you're going to sell a diet soft drink to women, you don't market it to men - they don't do the buying.

Don looks at the girls bare feet in the grass, it makes him realize how long its been since he has felt the grass with his bare skin. A moment of that references a "pure" moment earlier in the episode (Don talking about the "Patio" commericial with Peggy)

Okay, I was able to watch the Inside Mad Men video and even though it cuts off at the end, Matt says:

Don's hand in the grass signifies he's "embracing change".

Well, okay!

Peggy's jealous of Joan. How odd after all this time.

Don protecting Betty was wonderful. Too bad it turns out badly.

I think Bets' father has Alzheimer's and is thinking he's back in the Prohibition. Anybody else think this?

Again, Mad Men tells a story without really saying anything. That's why I say this show is art in motion.
I think Don ran his hand through the grass because he was thinking about that teacher in a lustful way. I've read that Don feels that he is trying to be more faithful, and to me that was symbolic touching. Also, I though about the purpose of showing all of those smiling children and this one adult smiling. When was the last time Don felt happy? Smiled? That might be what's running through his head.
Betty's Dad was having an Alzhiemer's moment- I think he though it was a period of time (possibly prohibition) where alcohol was illegal and he was dumping to hide from the cops. The sirens were clearly audible in that scene

And I can't believe that Joan actually married that doctor! Did he not basically rape her in Don's office? This is a woman who won't put up with any one of the "girls" crying in the breakroom, but she'll put up with that sphinctre? DEAR Lord...

We all think that StephanieJo.

Patio was a real drink - it didn't make it. Pepsi blew it on the first diet drink.

Gene has bouts of dementia. Don & Betty are now seeing it. He was dumping out the alcohol thinking he was back during prohibition.

The May Pole scene went along with what Don told the Madison Square Garden guy at the meeting. Change is neither bad nor good, it just is. Even with the changing of the seasons. I also think that Don remembered what Anna told him during the Tarot card reading, that he is the "center of the world."

Gene was obviously confused as to what year it was. With the sirens wailing, he could only think of the days of prohibition, and set out to get rid of anything that would have them arrested. It could possibly be a good indicator to how Betty's family acquired all their money, a la the Kennedys.

It would also be another F. Scott Fitzgerald tie in, which we saw Betty reading last season. It's how Gatsby became rich.

Peggy's rendition of 'Bye Bye Birdie' was heartbreaking. She is finally starting to take Joan's advice to heart: if she wants to be in the big leagues, she needs to learn the game. I agree with an earlier poster that said Peggy is probably running SC a few decades later.

I'd read somewhere that the assassination wasn't really going to be covered (that they'd jump ahead too far this season). So I was pleasantly surprised to see the wedding date on the invitation. Brilliant. I wonder how many weddings were ruined that day. Would like to hear stories. Still wonder if the writers meant for Peggy's son to be born the same week as JFK Jr. or if it was just coincidental.

Peggy has been herself for the entire series. It has made her successful, but neither popular, nor lucky in love. She is different, than the women around her. She wants to see what it would be like to be more like them, like Joan.

I'm posting for the first time after many months of lurking...so be kind!!
I think Don was so intently watching the teacher dance with such joy, feeling the grass under her bare feet, because he yearns to feel that way. Free and happy. He touches the grass with his hand to capture some of that feeling .
Betty's dad was probably hallucinating that it was the prohibition era, so he was dumping the Riunite or Almaden!!

I

Go watch the Episode 2 video wrap up - it explains a lot.

They never said they wouldn't cover the assassination, they said IF they did, it wouldn't be the whole 9 yards.

Previews of Jane in the Sneak Peak of Ep 3...hairdryer hat!!

I wonder if Patio failing will lead Don to thinking up the "Pepsi Generation"....here today, here to stay, feelin' free....

Lane's wife was Embeth Davidtz.

This episode was a little scattered for me and I couldn't stay focused. I dozed off a couple of times in the last 15 minutes.

Zabadu-Not everybody thought that cuz the question was asked before my post. Do you think that, or do you speak for everybody on this site?
I hope they get rid of Lane quick! I miss the Barrett's!

No, they just don't like you, so you are under investigational scrutiny.

Monkers13: Yes, I too read that Weiner said he wasn't planning on covering the JFK assassination, but he has obviously thrown in a teaser anyway regarding the wedding invitation. Still tonight's episode was not clear on all fronts at least to me. I watched the last two seasons (but was not here on the boards) and I liked them. So far, season three is not grabbing me but perhaps the next couple of episodes will be more to my liking. Funny, I really cared about all the characters in seasons 1 and 2, but not as much since season 3 began, not sure why.

StephanieJo - I saw that several people had already posted they thought of that. Sorry if you were offended, no snark intended.

I forget that people tend not to read all the posts.

I believe that my family went to either a prayer meeting or a community meeting that Friday night. I'm pretty sure that most people cancelled their plans for that weekend.

Although, I read in a biography of Nancy Reagan that she and Ronnie were at a party in a private home in California that night where, to be honest, there weren't too many tears shed.

I hope if they are going to cover the assaination this season -- more tears -- they will do me a favor and also cover the Beatles on Ed Sullivan in Feb. 1964. Heartache to joy in three months.

To continue my thoughts from my previous post...I think Peggy fooled around (no sex) with that guy so that she could feel better about herself. Its obvious though her Bye Bye Birdie sing-along and comments about the actress that she feels that she does not fit in in either world. She isn't the every-man's girl and she isn't considered their co-worker. She kept her self respect by not sleeping with him without protection. And I feel that the scene the next day with Don showed that she is proud of what she does and realizes that she is special because she can do this. That guy's coment in the bar about "how do you girls type all that?" brought her back to earth.

What type of sunglasses does Don Draper wear?

Victoria: Thanks for saying you dozed off! I did not, but I was struggling to stay awake for the last ten minutes or so. I thought it was just me!

Joan Zass: To whom are you referring? What are you talking about? I don't understand your post. Enlighten me, please. Thanks!

I had the same thought as posted by other(s?) here, that the guy Peggy picked up in the bar looked an awful lot like Pete. He was about as mature too.

Something else I noticed about Peggy: In the very last scene when she goes into Don's office to discuss Pampers, she has her hair pulled back with a barrette at the gack of her head. That was becoming fashionable about that time, and that little bit of accessorizing was new for her -- one more baby step away from the schoolgirl look, in taking Joan's advice from last season.

Ulyssesgalt - they were probably RayBans. Very popular then.

random thoughts:

Peggy picked up a Pete look alike for sure. (kudos to the early comment on that)

Betty's dad was flashing back to proibition for sure. There were not as many senior care options in the 1960's and I can see why they wanted to keep him at home.

The scene with the May pole was interesting. Don was watching how carefree the teacher was and he was looking at her bare feet in the grass. He ran his hands over the grass as he imagined how it would feel on your bare feet.

Peggy and Don have mutual resepct for each other. When peggy wanted to speak to Don and he clearly did not want to, she could have scurried away and waited for another time. It takes courage and confidence to insist that they needed to speak right then.

They are setting up a time line for us here:

It's May 1st.

Joan had planned to get married at Christmas time the previous year.

Roger's daughter is getting married in November which is about 6 months away. Did the previews suggest that Roger's child bride is pregnant? His daughter would be mortified if she was at the wedding visibily pregnant.

Here's my take on Don touching the grass.
Don sees pretty teacher barefoot in the grass. Don wants teacher. Fantasy becomes richer by touching grass.

Jan001: Good grief, I thought Peggy went in there to discuss campers - not Pampers. Well, I did admit to almost falling asleep during the last 10 minutes! I guess I need another jolt of the every sexy AM singing "Bye Bye Birdie!"

Monkers13 - if you watch the Inside Mad Men Episode 2 recap, Matt says that the "grass touching" was Don embracing change.

Having just watched it for the second time, I was struck by two more things.

In the bar where she's picking up the Pete look-alike, she tells him twice that she works on Madison Avenue, and there's some justifiable pride in her voice. When he makes the "all that typing" remark, for which he can be forgiven considering the time period, she appears to very briefly think about clarifying that she is not a secretary, but decides not to. My guess is that she figured, probably correctly, that it would diminish her chances of getting what she wanted, which she did get in the end.

Also, in the preview for next week, the exchange between Greg and Joan:
Greg: (yelling) I don't want to fight anymore!
Joan: (calmly) Then stop talking.
Him being the kind of guy he is, we may find that he back-hands her immediately after, but it was a great line.

@Victoria thanks, she was in In Treatment. @Zab, yeah, it get repetitive cuz of the time it takes to post on here! BTW, Peggy wanted the sex, but didn't want the baby this time! I'm bad.

zabadu
I'll take your word for it, but I like my version better. Don doesn't seem to be embracing any kind of change, seems like he's fighting it.

Matt says that Don is looking forward to change. He's embracing it. Your interpretation may be more spot on for the Don we all know, but Matt seems to think he's going in that direction....and maybe he will!

Lots of great stuff tonight. I am especially enamored with having the wedding date for the day after the Kennedy assassination. That is just one of those little touches that makes MadMen so wonderfully intriguing. I was also really happy to see Embeth Davitz on the show tonight. She is a wonderful actress, was in Schindler's list. (incidentally I once entertained at her daughter's birthday party when I used to live in L.A. - she was very nice too) I hope there will be more of her this season.

And I loved Peggy singing to her mirror. And sleeping with a guy but not staying over. Another beautiful performance by Elisabeth Moss.

Monkers13: I agree. It will be a cold day in you know where before Don Draper changes his MO. At least it would seem so. Does a leopard really ever change his spots? No! Don will fall off the wagon once again (the one where women are concerned). Also, I wonder how many of these folks will live into the seventies? Just kidding but everyone seems to be smoking and drinking up a storm, even the pregnant Betty. Yes, I know it's the 60s and that's what people did (most of them apparently) but I am surprised Roger hasn't dropped dead of a second heart attack! The man is never without a cig and a drink!

Wow what an episode... a little confused though! If this forum is hard to read for you check out the Mad Men Lounge!

MadMen: The forum is slow (posting takes forever). And originally, I could not sign on this evening.

I took the whole hand in the grass thing as a sign that Don isn't changing - the grass is still always greener on the other side. Sitting with his family, but can't take his eyes off yet another woman. Just in case anyone felt like he gained any brownie points for taking the Dad in - we were reminded of Don's duplicity with the maypole incident. Seems to be kind of the common theme of the show.
The comment Peggy made about "a 25 year old acting 14" was very telling. She resents the way men seem to respond to Ann Margaret - and the "Joans" in the office. Serious repression. She represses her sexual urges - but they break out every once in a while - then she hates her self. She's been a 25 year old acting 36...

Josepha:

Great point with Don's hand and the grass. It reminded me of last season with Don walking in the ocean, as in just wanting to be loose, be free etc. Here he's enjoying the freedom of movement, and, putting the drink aside as well. Same thing.

J, you just made me realize this so I'm gonna put it up here (this is why I love this board):

Don ended the episode with his usual yearning to be free; after an episode in which he just decided, in more ways than one, to accept being tied down to responsibility, which is not exactly his strong point. It again goes back to the whole underlying MM aspect of exploring dichotomy. I love this board.

At the end he's not putting a feather in his cap regarding being mature, instead, he's eyeing the hot chick but more importantly liking her freedom of movement.

Josepha keep going don't be a stranger

Did anyone notice how Peggy stole Joan's line when she was in the bar "so crowded I thought I was in the subway" Yes, our Peggy is a little jealous. She knows she is not fetching, but wishes to be.

Will barefoot teacher be the next face of Pepsi?

MadMen: Thanks for the head's up about the Mad Men Lounge! Didn't know this existed. Am going to give it a try. Seems to be a bit better formatted at least at first glance.

Now that I think of it, the whole show is about repression...Don repressing his past and sexuality. Peggy repressing her past and sexuality. Sal repressing his sexuality. Betty repressing the present. Hell, Roger's the only one living the way he wants...

Tipsi M: I never thought of that - the barefoot teacher as the next face of Pepsi (Patio). Could be!

Peggy seems detached part of the time (as though she couldn't care less about men, her image) and then completely different the next moment. Kind of like a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. At least that is how I see it.

Great episode. Remembering those days, I would have been glad when Peggy left my bed, notice he didnt ask for her # and vice versa. What is Don's power over brother Bill just intimidation or something else

did you notice the date on Margaret's wedding invitation as her dad Roger Sterling examined it....November 23, 1963 at 3:00 p.m. So JFK will die about 45 minutes prior to Margaret's scheduled walk down the aisle.....sounds like a complication for her wedding day besides the prospect of Jane showing up.

did you notice the date on Margaret's wedding invitation as her dad Roger Sterling examined it....November 23, 1963 at 3:00 p.m. So JFK will die about 45 minutes prior to Margaret's scheduled walk down the aisle.....sounds like a complication for her wedding day besides the prospect of Jane showing up

Don telling Betty's brother what they will do was two parts - Don is protective of Betty and also of her condition. He exerted his power over the brother to gain control of the situation and spare Betty any more "I'm a horrible daughter" thoughts.

Of course, he'll regret it, but it was a noble gesture for the moment.

hobocode52: I too wondered about Don's power over Betty's brother. Believe it or not, we have a similar situation in our family and it seemed strange to me that Don was able to dictate to Bill that way when Bill is Gene's son. Don is merely Betty's husband and not really part of her family (her Dad and Bill). At least the sister-in-law seemed to understand this earlier in the episode, that she was not part of the decision-making process. What, Don is so overpowering that Bill just meekly left the premises and that was that?

Actually IceMom, JFK was killed the day before, November 22, 1963.

ice mom: JFK was assassinated on Friday, November 22, 1963. Margaret is scheduled to walk down the aisle the next day.

By the way, the barefoot teacher who led the children in their dance around the maypole looked more like she came out of the early 1970s. I know she was supposed to look authentic and in-costume and all, but she really looked like she was a visitor from oh say, 1972, nine years in the future!

Zabadu: Yes, I can see that the writer was born in 1965 and that I thought that he was older.This probably explains why he is so wrong about a number of things. Apparently he was brought up in the new age of feminist contaminated studies and a distortion of history. As I said before, forcing your gf to have sex on the office floor was not acceptable back then and this whole "date rape" nonsense is just an invention of the man hating radical feminists.And let me give you a REAL stastic about alleged rape in general. In England, 95% of rape allegations are either dismissed or lost at trial which means that 19 out of 20 females are lying about rape. I happy to see that judges are finally giving these liars some jail time and hope that it spreads to the US. Perhaps Oprah with that lamebrain "doctor" Phil can do a show about false allegations and get the ball rolling.
And I wouldn't place any importance in what you read in some old magazines because they were as inaccurate back then as they are today.

I thought the entire may pole scene was a little weird. The first of May was a HUGE holiday in the Soviet Union and it's satellite nations, including Cuba. This lasted until the Berlin wall came down. Russia would flex it's military muscles and you'd see massive military parades, as well as the kiddies dancing around with flowers, flags, etc. It would be very unusual to see a May Day celebration in the United States during that time, especially so soon after the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was so connected to a symbol of Communism. And I'm sorry, but I was eight years old in 1963 and although we lived in California, I think most parents would be taken aback by the sight of their child's teacher dancing around a Maypole with flowers in her hair and bare feet. Even in 1969, I can imagine my father growling, "This is a class program ... not Woodstock."

Well, it's getting late and this site is so slow that it takes forever to post! All for now. Nite all.

can't believe i mixed that up. Nov. 23 is my husband's birthday....Nov 22nd was JFK's assassination. Thanks for straightening that out. Might still be a bit of a complication for the wedding though....

Just wanted to leave my two cents. I thought this episode was much better than last week. Don was sexier sitting in his Ray bans stroking the grass than he was bedding down with a ditzy stewardess! Jon Hamm is the main reason I watch this show! Loved how he took command of the dad situation--unfortunately it didn't work out too well. I remember pregnant women smoking and drinking--it was painful to watch with all we know now. I gave last week a grade of C, I give this week a B+. P.S. The end music was so distinctive especially last year. For the second week, I didn't recognize the song at the end...did anyone?

MicheleKay: I was just signing off when I saw and read your post. Yes, I totally agree that in the USA during the 60s (or at any time) it would have been odd to see a maypole dance based on the political climate of the day. And again, I thought the teacher looked straight out of the early 70s (even though I realize she was supposed to be in an authentic Ukranian costume. She looked like a flower child from the late 60s or early 70s! That wa slike the strange church scene from season 1 or 2 (I don't recall) where the children were hunting for Easter eggs around the church grounds. I thought this a strange combining of the religious and secular worlds, something I NEVER recall happening where I went to church! My husband said the same thing, that he never recalled this either during the 60s. Perhaps some church did it someplace, but our celebrations in church always revolved around the religious aspect of Christmas or Easter, etc., never the secular ones.

I have a feeling that Grandpa will meet with some sort of unfortunate accident and Don and Betty will end up with the house, car, etc. I doubt that Don took Grandpa in strictly out of the goodness of his heart OR his concern for Betty's feelings. And who knows what Betty's motives are? According to her brother, she and the father never got along.

I had to roar at Don sticking his head out the bedroom door and yelling "KNOCK IT OFF!" At the kids. Every Boomer has heard those "dad words" a million times throughout their childhood. None of this "Indoor voices please" stuff. "KNOCK IT OFF", "CUT IT OUT", "DO I HAFTA COME UP THERE?!!?" pretty much wraps up the typical father's parenting skills.

Scarletrose I must disagree. We definitely celebrated May Day in the early sixties in school. I was in forth or fifth grade and there was a pole in the schoolyard and each kid had a colored streamer of crepe paper like material. I totally hated it, it seemed( to use the term of the day) very "sissy" I only remember it once maybe I skipped it later on. On a seperate note can't wait to find out what is going on between Roger and Don I think Don respects Mona and didnt like being put in the middle of their break-up by Roger

I had to laugh at Peggy's comment about Ann Margaret. I saw "By Bye Birdie" at the drive-in movies the summer I was eight. I remember asking my mother why she was saying that she's 16 years old? She looked like my mom's age. Of course, my mother was flattered, but even today I think she looks ridiculous in the part. I guess today they'd use a REAL teenager, a la Miley Cyrus or Selena Gomez.

Kids are treated pretty bad for the most part...and it rings true.

I was born in 1969 to a teenage mother. I lived with my grandparents. My Uncle was 6 when I was born so I grew up with him. My grandparents were in their 40's and parenting very closely to what I see happening on this show. Grandpa rarely talked to the kids but gave a holler when we were 'acting up"....corporal punishment might be a swat on the rear or a a rare smack on the cheek. Kids were expected to be quiet and stay out of the way.

My how times have changed. Now I have a 10 year old that rules the house....

Kids are treated pretty bad for the most part...and it rings true.

I was born in 1969 to a teenage mother. I lived with my grandparents. My Uncle was 6 when I was born so I grew up with him. My grandparents were in their 40's and parenting very closely to what I see happening on this show. Grandpa rarely talked to the kids but gave a holler when we were 'acting up"....corporal punishment might be a swat on the rear or a a rare smack on the cheek. Kids were expected to be quiet and stay out of the way.

My how times have changed. Now I have a 10 year old that rules the house....

Someone mentioned Ray-Bans, but does anyone know what model the sunglasses that Don was wearing were?

hobocode, I don't know where you went to school, but I can assure you that during the cold war, a may pole would not be on ANY school grounds where I lived. It just wasn't done.

@Monty: I'm not even going there with you. You feel most rapes are faked? Nope, not going there with you. Find someone else to heap your female hate on.

@MichelleKay: I have a feeling that Grandpa Gene will do something to the children that is either inappropriate or dangerous and Don will not tolerate it. Then Gene will be sent to the home, the house sold and Betty will be absolved of daughter guilt. Brother will be able to do an "I told you so", but Betty won't care because Don did the noble thing.

hobocode53: Good grief, I really need to go to bed. Was signing off before then got involved reading the Mad Men Lounge site and here I am back here. Okay, really is the last post of the evening for me.

Perhaps you celebrated May Day at your school but I know we did not at ours. MicheleKay mentioned that because of the Cuban Missile Crises, etc., it seemed odd that we would have celebrated a basically Soviet holiday here. I guess May Day was actually celebrated in all of Europe (or parts of it) but we sure didn't celebrate it at my elementary school here in the USA. I can imagine a boy would not have relished this celebration regardless of where he lived in the world! However, I do remember the big thing was building bomb shelters in one's backyard and stocking them with provisions, and those emergency drills where everyone filed out of the classroom and sat in the hall facing the walls, hands over heads. (Funny, because that would hardly have saved us in the event of a nuclear attack!). To be honest though, that May Day celebration on Mad Men seemed quite elaborate for a holiday that really was hardly noticed here in the USA. All the kids dressed to the nines, and that teacher Don had eyes for, who looked like a visitor from eight or nine years in the future! She may have been wearing authentic European garb but she looked every inch the flower child to me! I almost expected her to go up to Don and say, "Hello Mr. businessman. My name's Sunshine Ocean and I want to give you a flower and wish you peace and love."

OK, now I REALLY am signing off. I am exhausted!

@cdm1117: they look like vintage RayBan aviators like here on craigslist:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/clo/1337870789.html

To add to the may-pole debate: I had a history festival with my 6th grade students a couple of year ago and they did a may-pole dance, in full costume. It was awesome, and we had minimal complaints from the kids. Of course we also did a skit with a knight-fighting scene, so I guess there was a pay-off.

Don is going to regret having Gene move in. Much conflict coming there. When Don asks Lane "I don't know why you bought us" the answer is, they want to put SC out of business to eliminate them as competition.

As a kid in 2nd or 3rd grade, I remember celebrating May Day with a maypole and the ribbons. This would have been '68 or '69.

And, I cannot imagine parents smoking during a school event outside or not. No matter how fashionable smoking was, it was never permitted on school grounds or during school activities. That part was way off.

Peggy is a woman out of her time. She's too liberated for female peers and can't relate to them as her goal in life is not centered on marriage. She's way too liberated for the men of her time, and she can't relate to them either. I really feel sorry for her. Her life will be hard as she continues to be ambitious in a man's world.

@sab4ever - I didn't interpret Don's remark to Peggy about keeping some tools in her toolbelt as meaning he thinks she's gay. It struck me more as a tacit acknowledgment that he knows her ideas have merit but it wasn't the time or the place, societally, for her to take a stand. Sort of "pick your battles".

I've noticed that Peggy's voice is losing that breathy little-girl quality slowly but surely. Good. That was a little bit grating for me.

And yes, I admit it, I'm watching it now for the third time tonight.

The Pat's steaks didn't look right at all. They aren't shaped like that. Even the half sandwich is bigger and longer and rounder than what Gene pulled out of the bag. It's been a while since I've been there, but I don't think the paper they are wrapped in is yellow. Even the big white paper bag didn't look right to me. And driving from South Philly to Ossining... I don't know, that's a pretty long drive to be hauling steak sandwiches... A couple other points. Pat's doesn't sell chicken parm. They don't sell any chicken. Maybe they did in 1963, but I kind of doubt it. And in my experience, native Philadelphians don't refer to it as "Pat's Steaks" in conversation. They just say "Pat's." (I admit I don't know if Betty was supposed to have been raised in Philly. Is she supposed to be from the Main Line?)

Anyway, I love the show and this is total nitpicking. After all, spotting the errors is just part of the fun of watching. And damn, now I really want a cheese wit.

Peggy with the guy at the bar:

"I work for a JERK ! "

I may be totally geeking out here but the Maypole scene made me think of the musical "Camelot" which was on Broadway in the early 60's and had a maypole scene for the song "The Lusty Month of May".

If I recall correctly, grinandbearit posted something back in the days of the filming of the first few episodes of S3 that she either witnessed (or knew someone who did) a scene with Grandpa Gene and Sally "driving" in the car....hope nothing happens to our sweet Sally because of the old man's dementia/Alzheimers....anyone remember those posts?

Grin, are you there, can you refresh our memories on that?

You guys are all a lot smarter than me. Should I stop posting?

Ann Margret spells her name this way. There is no “a” between the “g” & the “r”,. No one HATES Ann Margret.
The best line(s) in the show were when Peggy asked to see Don & he asked,“Can it wait?” & she said, “No.”, w/out any expression on Elizabeth Moss’ face.
When Don played w/ the grass under his chair, they started to play music, & I immediately thought, “Oh, great! Now we’re going to have another flashback because Don didn’t have grass as a kid. Or a Maypole. Or a pretty teacher!” Guess I’m tired of flashbacks, but didn’t know it ‘til an hour ago.
Did anyone else think that Betty’s father had started the house on fire when they heard the sirens? Or, was it “setting-off the alarm” that this was just one of the first problems they would have w/ “Dad”?
Was Don upset when he walked through his house, because Betty’s brother(William)’s family had made it a mess? Don’t forget, William is supposed to have borrowed Don’s suitcase? I just don’t see Don letting his bro-in-law borrow anything of his! Especially NOT his suitcase! William will get Don back when the stewardess looks up William, & William puts the business trip & Don together. That was a stupid mistake that Don would never make. I don’t know why they wrote it that way.

@zabadu: This line of dialogue by Fred McMurray’s character from “The Apartment” was said BEFORE Miss Kubilik attempted suicide.

@zabadu: You can post a bunch of examples of women’s 60s stuff that you’ve researched. It’s not a waste of time, or blog space, for me. I like your posts! Post away! Give us some examples.

@zabadu: besides the wedding invitation, was there another JFK reference that you’re referring to.

@zabadu
&zerelda: Did you ever hear the story of how Fred McMurray was signing autographs at Disneyland in the 60s, & an elderly lady came up & slapped McMurray in the face? He asked her why she did it, & she answered, “Because in ‘The Apt.” you treated that poor girl so badly!”

@zerelda: your slippers must be a very big size for such big feet. I had to think for 10 minutes on the last thread to understand why you would write that to me, and then I thought, “Ah, BIG shoes to fill!” I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

@zerelda: Please no rabbit meat jokes! I once knew a rabbit very well, plus I’m a dedicated vegetarian. Aren’t we all on this site? Anyone? Anyone?

@zerelda: “Shinette Shampoo”. You got me on that one. I have absolutely no recognition of that product. Can you quote from one of their ads?

@zerelda: Yes, she said “insects”. I was offended as a New Yorker, & as an insect lover (okay, I’m kidding about the 2nd part!) What does RASPUTIN1963 have to say about that remark, when she compared insects to “Missing London”?

@zerelda: Listen, LAURIE B. didn’t understand the hand in the grass metaphor, either, & if YOU TWO don’t understand it, how are the rest of us supposed to get it?

@Laurie B.: Well Laurie, obviously I’m upset w/ you for not joining the last blog until it was almost over, but, I guess I forgive you. Just, either don’t leave us at all, or keep checking-in. The last “Open Thread” got very strange w/out you. I know! I was posting some of the strangest stuff I ever posted!

@Laurie B.: I loved your loving Peggy’s line to Don, “A girl 25 acting like she’s 14”, or whatever. But did she go out to that bar and act 14?

@mcmere: I didn’t pick-up the JFK assassination day-b4-wedding date, as you all did. I was trying to “scan” the card, but it wasn’t on the screen long enuf. Good pick-up for you & all you others who spotted it! (Fast readers)

@sab4ever: PLEASE except my apology from the last blog. My notes were untidy & I drew an arrow to your name, but you weren’t the person who made the “bimbo stew” remark. I’m really sorry. Now when I take notes, I list names & post my notes under them. Sorry.

@MadisonAvenue342: I’m the only person who gets angry when someone posts when they haven’t read all the posts. I read them ALL! If firing back is not the point of this site, then what is? Firing back & getting fired upon is my favorite part!

@scarlettrose: Are you on dial-up or something? Is there anything WE posters can do to make it easier for you to get on the site? You ARE CUTting & PASTing, your posts, right? Are you remembering how you give your name, or your password? Let us know so we can keep you posting!

@scarlettrose: People still read the S3E1 postings. You may be right, it may not be worth it to post there for now, so feel free to make any comments about E1 that you want. We’ll read them, won’t we guys? Guys?

@scarlettrose: We did “Bye Bye Birdie” in junior high. I was in the chorus. My sister told me she could hear us singing on the late bus (she was a high school sophomore), & she said by the end of the production, she hated all the songs from the show. She couldn’t even come see our play!

@hanna: I read every post looking for the laughs. You’re right. The way I post, I figure if someone doesn’t want to read all my comments, they can just skip to their own blog name & read what I wrote just to that one blogger.

@SallyD: you wrote that they have never named a product that wasn’t authentic. I have no recognition of a soft drink named”patio” & neither has SCARLETTROSE. I did like the “World’s Fair” reference because we went there when I was 8.
In my family we had a saying, “If you get lost, meet at the Unisphere!” (in an age b4 cell phones).

@Greg: You mean you were FORCED to come on & post? Who forced you? FANCYNANCY? (I wondered why she wasn’t posting!) Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

@Greg: Did you mean to say that Betty CAN’T trust her psychiatrist? And, Betty’s brother used Don’s suitcase. I’m sorry, but I still don’t see that.

@AuburnAnnie: Great to hear from you gal! I also thought the guy Peggy picked-up looked a lot like Pete! I also thought, until she got up, that they were in Peggy’s apt., the one she brought “car wreck” Bobbie to, in order to recover.

@AuburnAnnie: Big smile! Big! When Don yelled “Cut it out!” to the kids, & slammed the bedroom door, I thought, “Oh, my Dad. My Dad, very 60s!” (he’s gone nearly 13 years. He’d have LOVED this show!) Thanks for posting that. Real smile.

@OlympicFan2010: Again, I thought the sirens, too were going to mean something else in S3E1.
@zerelda: Well, let’s hope my long post doesn’t end the blog! Since after I post no one else has anything to say! (I didn’t take that too personally at the end of the last blog.)

I went to school in Brooklyn and I felt my teachers were very idealistic and very liberal,but we definitely celebrated May Day I know it has ties to Labor Unions but it also had ties to the coming of Spring . I had the impression that the Maypole was brought out of the basement by the custodians, and it wasn't a one year only event. I think this would have been 61 or 62. we also used to celebrate Arbor Day sometime in Sept I think. Flag Day was bigger than now and Washingtons Birthday was feb 22 Lincolns Feb 12 in NY we got a day out of school for each guy. all the holidays were celebrated on the actual day. Memorial day always May 31 etc. As far as Nov 22 I was mainly concerned with the football games not being cancelled (they were not) and school being cancelled on Monday (it was). even as an 11 year old I was a terrible person primarily concerned with how the assasination would work out for me. in my later years I was hoping that Ford, Nixon and Reagan would all die before I retired so I got a day off with pay as a federal worker. Jimmy Carter did not co-operate. Oh well I guess I am hell-bound.

Peggy's story line was great. Last season, Bobbie Barrett advises her to (something like): Be a woman, it's a powerful thing if done right. And in this episode she fully realizes that when the men are captivated by uber fems (innocent) Ann-Margret and (hard-boiled) Joan. When she "complains" to Don, he tells her how it is and advises her to "keep some tools in the toolbox" or use her femininity. So, she tries Joan's line about the crowded subway and uses her sexuality. She'll have to learn how to harness it but she will!

Hey Angela...here's a connection....Jared Harris/Lane Pryce being on MM and his dad Richard/King Arthur was in "Camelot" along with Vanessa Redgrave as Guinevere (your Camelot maypole scene comments made me think of all that)....gorgeous movie....we had a candlelight wedding because of that beautiful scene....beautiful memories. Thirty-three years ago just this last Friday. I guess the planning of Margaret's wedding scenes coming right after our anniversary, also, got me thinking of all this.

I posted some of this on another thread too -

Peggy is kind of an old soul and very practical, but she's still just a girl in some ways and she’s trying to find out what her place in the world/company/dating scene is. She’s jealous of how Joan and Anne-Margaret use their feminine wiles with ease. And now she's getting messages from Don now about how her issues are affecting her work (oh dear!). He gets right down to the heart of the matter with Peggy not seeing how the Patio product should be promoted. He basically tells her she’s still in little girl-mode and needs to act like a sexual woman. I think the idea is driven home even more when Roger talks to her in the elevator about her father attending her wedding – obviously he only sees her as a little girl, like his daughter. So she tries to experiment with how far she can go with hamburger boy. She basically sneaks out without telling him who she is and makes it clear that there won't be a second date. She isn't really "that" girl, but she had to figure it out the hard way.

Another oddball thing....

I feel bad for William’s wife, Judy. She has only seemed nice and genuine. She apologized about taking the vase that Betty wanted. She tries to be genial and stay out Betty's way. Then she’s told to stay out of the discussion about what to do with the father. And then she has to try to convince Gene to say with Betty by making self-deprecating comments about her cooking. And don’t forget about the bunk beds! Ugh. Poor gal.

O.K. just watched the Maypole scene again, and the teacher welcomed everyone to "field day" i think field day was done all over and the maypole dance was just a part of it with no political overtones

Hey SC fan! That's cool, I didn't realize that was his son! I must admit, I haven't seen the movie, was thinking more of the Broadway version which starred Harris and Julie Andrews. I think it was on B-way '61-'63. Another "Camelot" tie-in is that the Broadway musical coinciding with the Kennedy presidency is what led to the Kennedy White House being termed "Camelot". This might not have happened until after the assassination, I'm not sure.

First, I apologize if this has already been discussed. No time to read hundreds of posts. But I believe this season is to be about SIGNIFICANT change. And I believe this season will somehow address the Kennedy assassination. The date of Roger's daughter's wedding is the day after the assassination. I'm curious to see if the show will address this head on or pass it by in time chunks as they have done already with past seasons.

Angela - I believe that the initial Camelot comment actually came from Jackie shortly after her husband was murdered and I believe she was doing an interview and made reference to the time that the family had together during his term in the White House was to her "Camelot".

Scarlett: if you were older you would know that what you think is usual or normal is really quite recent. It's really only recently that smoking has been prohibited in most places and 10 years ago most people weren't even connected to the Net or did they have cell phones. It was about 2000 when these things really took off even though they had existed for awhile. I had a cell phone in 1990 and never met another person who also had one and although I had e-mail and internet (dial up) in the late 80's it was nothing like today and most people didn't even understand what e-mail was. 10 years ago (or even 5) if you mentioned homosexual marriage, people would either laugh or think you were crazy. And most of the things you believe today, like feminism for example, are just aberations and will be swept away by the next generation and will be viewed as you would your crazy spinster aunt who lived with the 20 cats.

That Maypole teacher sure looked like a flower child. And the barefeet in the grass? Very hippee. When the camera pans up to the tree maybe MW is trying to suggest that change is in the air.

Betty has no idea what she's getting into with her father. I wonder if she did it out of care for her father, or care for how bad she thinks it would reflect upon her to put him in a home.

Peggy is becoming an even more interesting creature to watch, it seems like as she embraces her womanhood, she becomes more like the men she works with. (Drinking, random sexy times with strangers) Though I still don't think she quite knows what to do with her sexuality yet. Kudos on the Pete doppleganger though, I loved it. And I'm with her on Ann Margret being shrill :)

My final thoughts go to the poor British guy. I'm going to start preemptively cringing when he shows up on screen as every entrance he made tonight was followed with bad news. Maybe I should turn it into a drinking game. When you have lemons...

May Day - the day you had to hold hands with a boy !!!! And all of us girls knew that those boys never washed their hands - eeeewwww yuckkkk they were sticky ! We had to hold their hands and dance to folk songs that we practiced and practiced for weeks in the Activity Room ( back then schools had Auditoriums and Activity Rooms ) Then we decorated the MayPoles in the play yard with chains of construction paper attached to the poles. We made special paper crowns on our head that included the use of paste that the boys used to eat out of the jar. We usually wore our Easter dresses. We were in San Francisco so we included the Mexican Hat Dance as a standard along with Turkey in the Straw with other old favorites while our parents watched us and were served Orangeade and cupcakes. Fun day had by all and yes I echo some others above in saying that each of the holidays were celebrated individually - like they were meant to be.

azkt - From what creator Matt Weiner has said in interviews, it seems that he's not sure if he'll deal with the assassination in a big way. He may deal with it off-hand in a low scale way. My guess would be that he'll end the season with it since it coincides with Roger's daughter's wedding, kind of like they ended the last season with the Cuban Missile crisis. Here's the link to an article with an interview with Matt Weiner - it has a lot of insights about the show:

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/08/mad-men-talking-out-of-town-with.html

Looks like Don will be leaving the newly acquired Sterling Cooper either voluntarily, or not! Wonder where Pete & Peggy's baby given up for adoption, will end up....my guess is that someone on the show will be bringing up their baby like Roger and his new bride.....she doesn't look like the type who wants to "wreck" her trim bod having kids...... anyone else agree with my predictions????

This is unbelievable. I went to bed exhausted but couldn't get to sleep! Tossed and turned for a while then decided to get back up. Then came here again. Perhaps a couple more posts will put me to sleep!

@Monty: If I was "older?" Older than whom? I am pushing 60 and remember the 60s quite vividly. Also, what are you talking about smoking? I mentioned nothing about smoking. I was talking about the Maypole. And some folks here seem to have had Maypole celebrations and some did not (in elementary school). I did not. Someone mentioned it was "Field Day" and not May Day. Fine. It was Field Day. Anyway, I think you should be addressing someone else or re-reading my postings because no where did I mention smoking. What about it?

Truffles: made that very comment about the "Field Day" teacher earlier. Looks like a visitor from a few years in the future!

racy4: No, I am not on dial up. As I understand it some others have had problems here and there with this site (slow speeds, etc.). I was unable to register for a week! Don't know what the problem was but things seemed to have eased to some degree.

@MMFan: Actually, I believe that Jackie was referring to the fact that the press dubbed her husband's presidency as "Camelot" because THAT was his favorite play (or at least his favorite song) on Broadway, "Camelot." It was of course, a play, before if was a movie. The press picked up on this when they found out a couple of years earlier and began to refer to his days in office as the era of "Camelot."

I dread seeing Don in a leisure suit, but I want this show to live on forever!

racy:

Every male who is in Betty's life is a failure to her as I said above.

Her husband fails her.
Her brother fails her.
Her psychiatrist fails her.
Her father is all but gone.
She befriended Jimmy Barett but he failed her bc he was bad news.
She tried to befriend Arthur but he was bad news

So my point was, I think there's a Mad Men moment here because we assume, and rightfully so, that she has maturity issues. But when you look a little in depth, she has no mature male around her.

I'm thinking Glenn is less about Glenn and it's a little more about espousing to us to the fact that her male experiance is aweful, and it's not her fault.

See??

inspiron: As nice as that may seem now, I think that there is only so far the writers can take each character and still maintain the level of interest. It is both odd and intriguing to think of Don and Betty going Disco Dancing and doing "The Hustle" under a disco ball, I admit, or Pete and Trudy being invited to Studio 54 and meeting Andy Warhol, but I think these characters have a certain "life" so to speak and when their various stories have been told, then that will be it.

I did not like the show over all tonight
To me it was flat and didn't have a lot of the 60's cultural references I love about the show
It was depressing to me to see the Pursuit of the dollar in action as Don Draper made the demolishing of Penn Station look like progress . He is a mixture of integrity and sleeze an amoral wordsmith

That piece with Ann Margaret to me was horrible
What did anybody see in her she WAS shrill and kind of slutty

janna: I can relate about your feelings regarding Bill's wife, Judy. This woman seems to be between a rock and a hard place and seems to do her best to try not to ruffle any feathers. I think however, Don will live to regret his decision to take in Betty's Dad, and eventually he will need to be placed in a facility of some type. He is obviously suffering Dementia, the precursor to Alzheimer's. He seemed to be having a flashback to Prohibition when he was pouring the liquor (I guess that's what it was) down the drain. I think both Don and Betty will regret their decision to have him live with them. Sometimes, these things are power moves on the part of one sibling against another (we have something similar in our family at the moment) and sometimes the sibling who thinks they came out the winner (and got Mom or Dad) discovers later they were anything but!

I meant hanna not janna. I must be getting tired again!

Niceguy: I always liked Ann-Margaret and thought she had a lot of talent. She tended to exude sex-appeal and could sing and dance quite well. Her role as Kim McAfee in "Bye, Bye Birdie" (the clip from Mad Men) brought her a lot of positive attention. She went on to play some dramatic roles too in which she was quite good. Always a professional, she was also rather under-rated at times.

Hey there!
My take on Don running his fingers through the grass was kind of like a grounding of sorts. He probably connecting what it feels like to run his fingers through the grass. He's watching the teacher and maybe there's lust on his mind, but as he's watching her bare feet, I thought there was a feeling of freedom and feeling happy-go-lucky in watching her prance around the maypole. Then the camera panned up to the trees - so I think he was enjoying being in the moment - springtime, grass, trees. It might have been a creative moment for him and the teacher was his muse.

When Peggy turned around and stared at Joan yukking it up with the clients about feeling like they were on the subway, I think Peggy was taken aback by what Joan said. In the previous episode, as they were waiting in the lobby one morning, Joan had told Peggy that she never takes the subway. The look on her face was a little incredulous, like "You phony!"

I believe what another poster said about when Don told Peggy "keep some tools in your toolbelt." I think he's saying to pick your battles. Maybe Don feels that Peggy is losing her creative vision because her jealousy (re: beautiful women) is making her blind to the intended message in the ad they're trying to develop for Patio diet soda.

Can't wait for next week!!

Scarlettrose - No prob. I agree about Don's decision. The father probably has early to moderate Alzheimer's (a type of dementia) or more likely dementia related to his strokes. The father will be very difficult to care for, and a pregnant Betty will not be able to do it on her own. Don probably thought that by taking the father in like Betty wanted he could help everyone in the short term, but in the long term it will be more than they can handle. However, I doubt that there were facilities at that time that could handle someone with his condition with care and real understanding. He might go to a nursing home (where he'd probably try to escape or may become violent) or a mental institution. Facilities specifically for dementia and Alzheimer's patients are relatively new, like in the last 20-15 years.

Scarlett, my sympathies are with you. My mother is the admissions director for an Alzheimer's facility and she deals with families that are trying to figure out whether or not to put their loved one in a facility. She deals with family struggles like Don's all the time at work and in her care-giver support group, and it can be tricky and heartbreaking.

Betty is sooo bitter... I was 5 in 1963, mom was the wife of an LA adman, and there was nothing but joy and excitement in our house. Our mom treated all four of us kids like people, we laughed like crazy at the dinnertable every night (yes she cooked every single night - and there was a lot more laughing when dad was late from work) and yes, we even "performed" for the company by going through the crowd and shaking hands. I even remember making drinks for the grownups. We would never talk back, but we didn't have to be belittled and shunned the way Betty treats her kids. There is no joy in her, even before the affair. She doesn't seem to really like her children, they are merely inconvenient objects. Maybe it's the snooty place they live.. but it's beginning to bug me. Especially when I think that in a mere 6 or 8 years they're gonna have one rebelious little pill-poppin, pot-smokin' boozer hippie daughter on their hands!

Betty is sooo bitter... I was 5 in 1963, mom was the wife of an LA adman, and there was nothing but joy and excitement in our house. Our mom treated all four of us kids like people, we laughed like crazy at the dinnertable every night (yes she cooked every single night - and there was a lot more laughing when dad was late from work) and yes, we even "performed" for the company by going through the crowd and shaking hands. I even remember making drinks for the grownups. We would never talk back, but we didn't have to be belittled and shunned the way Betty treats her kids. There is no joy in her, even before the affair. She doesn't seem to really like her children, they are merely inconvenient objects. Maybe it's the snooty place they live.. but it's beginning to bug me. Especially when I think that in a mere 6 or 8 years they're gonna have one rebelious little pill-poppin, pot-smokin' boozer hippie daughter on their hands!

Don made one mistake in his instructions to his brother - in - law;

The Pennsylvania Railroad, not the New York Central, ran the Broadway Limited from Penn Station!

Darn, and those writers were so good until just now!

hanna: Thanks for your kind words. I have to admit that like Bill (Betty's brother) who spoke a line that had something to do with no letting yourself get old (something like this), I too have begun to feel this way. While I am still just shy of 60, I have seen my parents (my mother is now gone) go downhill and it's so weird because I remember them as very vital people. Since your mother works in the field you mentioned, I am sure she sees a lot of very difficult cases. My mother was in a facility for a while and I tell you, I had to really force myself to go and visit her there. Sometimes, she didn't know who I was, or she thought that I was there to do her harm, etc. It was just horrendous! I don't think until a family has gone through this that they can really fully understand it. Here's the deal and I am sure you'll agree. When a parent comes to the point they are simply no longer able to function safely and at least somewhat independently in the home, the best thing is to make that most difficult of decisions and place into a facility. You're right though, tricky and heartbreaking. Just awful!

aralston127: I don't disagree with you about Betty and the way she treats her children, but this is a woman who obviously had issues with many male figures in her life. Her father, her husband, her brother, her psychiatrist, etc. Not every woman makes a spectacular mother and honestly, I often think more don't than do, because like everyone else, mothers are not perfect. They falter and don't always do the best thing for their children, even though we would all like to think both they (and ourselves) do. Betty seems a typical frustrated woman of her era. She was brought up to always smile, say the right thing and above all, be nice. This is the early sixties, pre-Women's Liberation. The opportunity and freedom that women of today enjoy was not there in Betty's world. No, she isn't Mother of the Year, but then, that's a difficult title to live up to.

>>>And, I cannot imagine parents smoking during a school event outside or not. No matter how fashionable smoking was, it was never permitted on school grounds or during school activities. That part was way off.

Not so "way off." I remember the teachers smoking while they had playground duty. It was just accepted. In fact, if somebody DIDN'T smoke or drink, it was practically anti-social. My father would walk around with a glass of ginger ale or club soda, just so people would leave him alone at parites or gatherings. Especially in the eary 60s, EVERYONE smoked and you could pretty much do it wherever you pleased. I mean ... watch an old Twilight Zone episode. The airplane pilots are smoking in the cockpit! The doctors are smoking outside the OR! That's not baloney .. that's how it was !

Agreed Scarlettrose - I just wish I could see her geniunely care for them once in a while and laugh like she means it. Granted she's supposed to very pregnant, but she's pretty much like that all the time. A true ice princess. She's actually mean to them. A few of tonight's favorites: "Where's the melba toast", and Don telling her to eat or the baby will weigh 1 lb.

I do think children are raised the polar opposite way today - and neither is good. Somewhere in the middle maybe... In my somewhat idealized childhood, we were pushed out the door to raise ourselves in the world of our neighborhood from dawn till some mother called "dinner" at dark. And loved every minute of it!

MicheleKay: Oh wait, YOU are the one speaking of smoking. Or you are now. Someone (Monty) apparently thought I was. and told me that if I was "older" I would remember that the times were different way back when. I am just shy of 60, so I DO remember way back when! And you're right, not so "way off." I too recall the teachers smoking on the playground and in the teacher's lounge and on other areas of school property. My mother took us to a pediatrician who smoked DURING our appointments (all the while I was gasping from the smokey haze in the exam room!). I remember the clerk at the local grocery store smoking while ringing up food items! And, I remember an ice cream social we went to in elementary school and there were the parents in lawn chairs, smoking! Sheesh, it's a wonder anyone lives past 45 or 50 back then!

aralston127: I think that those of us who grew up in the fifties and sixties lived in a more carefree time, that's for sure! Today, everyone's mom is working and families hardly spend anytime together. What a pity. I agree, Betty is not exactly maternal!

Everybody smoked like chimnies and drank like sieves. What a world it was. I smoked in front of my uptight dad on a plane from LA to NY in 1976. He just glared at me and never said a word. I felt so mature and then I felt bad. Imagine smoking in planes... we did it all the time, and at our desk at work all the way up until about 1984. We even smoked in the aisles of the grocery store pushing shopping carts. And inside cars. And in the movies. On top of the baby oil we used at the beach to get as "tan" (i.e. blistered") as possible, I'll be more amazed if I DON'T get cancer.

Well, now I am good and tired again, so I will sign off and hope I can actually go to sleep this time. See you all again at some point!

Well I have never had much of a dose of Ann Margarette
In fact that was the first time I have seen her perform

I still don't like her but I have not seen her in anything else

As far as Betty's Mothering, while an unpopular notion
I think everyone should have their reproductive powers "turned off" until they are deemed suitable as parents.

Didn't you LOVE when Roger said,"I blame Mona"!

Last season Betty was complaining about having to monitor 2 kids. Now she is going to have those two, a new baby and Dementia Dad? No way!

And yes, we had a May Dance with a maypole every year in high school. The May pole actually goes back to Pagan times, not the mere 500 years they said tonight. Ditto for Carnivale.

I agree with some other posters that the teacher dancing around the Maypole with flowers in her hair was a vision of the future...a flower child. She symbolized the generation coming up and that ties in with the Pepsi campaign launched in 1963..."the Pepsi Generation".

First time posting here and I really enjoyed reading some of the very perceptive comments about last weeks episode and this one tonight!

Maypole celebrations are so sexual and ancient pagan celebrations, I'm surprised this was not mentioned in the little kid's narrative (just kidding). I thought the young teacher was a foreshadowing of the youth movement which would be just around the corner. She was fresh faced compared to the matronly moms including preggers Betty, as well as barefoot, and of course, the flowers in her hair all will be more relevant soon. Don's stroking of the grass while watching her was both sexual and maybe a clue that he could "tune in, turn on, and drop out". With longer hair and a London wardrobe, Don Draper would be fantastic looking, me thinks.

zabadu - Thanks for the answer on the sunglasses!! I've been trying to figure that out since Jet Set. Love those old Ray Bans!

What was up with Peggy's guy at the bar? His buddies asked him about getting a cab and then there is some wierdness when he says he lives around the corner. Was that just an apartment that they all keep in case they get lucky?

I feel sorry for William if his wife doesn't cook as good as Betty. Betty is a horrible cook!

Well I typed a nice long babbling note and it vanished into the either, so I'll assume it was a sign to stay concise.

"Change is neither good nor bad, it just is." I think that was the theme of the episode, being open to change.

Peggy tried some changes - boy did she! Be interesting to see if she keeps it up.

Don likewise, trying to embrace the family man within, and at the same time, a foreshadowing of the hippie back to nature youth movement, with the teacher with flowers in her hair and gently stroking the grass with his bare fingers.

I think it feels like "times they are a changin'". In season one, you wouldn't see a bearded, "beatnik" copywriter being so confrontational with a client, or Peggy having her own feminist mini-tirade over a soft drink campaign. I think we are seeing the first creaks of the old 50s ways starting to crack, and the 60s changes starting to creep in.

Parker

Hi fellow Maddicts!

I used to try to post right after the episodes, and learned a lesson. The site gets too busy, and too slow!

I have a few question/observations: Why isn't Peggy using the birth control pills she received in Season 1?
I am assuming she and her Bar guy went with oral sex, since when he said he didn't have a Trogan, she suggested they 'could still do other things". Is it possible she saw oral sex as not real sex?
It's kind of weird that she is almost trying to be like Joan by quoting her.

What I liked about the Maypole dance scene was that we couldn't see Don's eyes (what was he really thinking)?
Does anyone know whether those sunglasses were Ray Bans or Foster Grants? I remember the big Foster Grant campaign "Look who's behind those Foster Grants", but, I think that was later than early 60s.

Betty and Don don't know what they are in for with her Dad. I think Don got a little taste of it during the "prohibition scene".
I still have a feeling something is going to happen to Bettys baby....
The stress of dealing with her Dad like that may be too much. She will be the primary caregiver, as most women during that time were. Don is away all the time. If she can't cope with 2 kids (with help from her housekeeper/nanny), how will she deal with her Father's dementia?

Joan can't be leaving the show!!! She made a reference to July 1st being her last day. I know July 1st is the beginning of the new medical year for MDs in their training. Maybe Dr. Dipshit put in for a Residency away from NY.
Something will happen to prevent her from going, I HOPE!!

That British guy and his wife are the most snobby, arrogant people!! Loved the reference to "the insects" they now have since they left London!
Americans/insects/ant farm? Hmmmm....

Does anyone know when Pepsi made the switch from Patio to Diet Pepsi? I remember the TV jingle for Diet Pepsi, and I'm pretty sure it came before "The Pepsi Generation" theme.

Enough from me for now!!

P.S. I had to keep switching between MM and the NY Yankees/Red Sox game last night! And my Sox lost!!!

The episode just felt strange to me; at times it didn';t look like Mad Men. Don and Roger looked pale to me. And the glamour seemed to be missing. I assume this was on purpose, or I was just hallucinating in preparation for the 60s.

Speaking of which, I doubt Kinsey is long for Sterling-Cooper. He's the guy who will follow the maypole chuick to Woodstock. Actually, that entire scene, where he opposes the destruction of Penn Station, felt unbelievable to me. He's certainly never shown the guts to speak to a client that way. And I was surprised thatPete would just sit there and let him do it.

Lots of hints that the new company might not require Roger's services anymore. Even Don can't figure out what he does.

Don't really understand the Don-Peggy tension.

Finally, I wince every time I see the British guy. Just bores the hell out of me. Bring back Duck!

We've had a couple of mysoginists on this board in the past, but you take the cake, Monty. I feel sorry for the women in your life. Go peddle your crap somewhere else; you're too blinded by your twisted ideology to enter into rational discussion.

60'schild I think they're Ray Ban Caravans.

Thanks DoubleDon!

I got the impression that Don thinks that doing a huge good deed for Betty (taking care of Dad and standing up to her Brother) sort of buys him an affair. Sort of refills that debit card, I guess. And it may just be that dancing woman. Good episode this week.

The more I see of Don and Betty, the less sympathetic they are to me.

Someone commented previously on the maypole scene. It felt very unbelievable. Mayday (May 1st) was a Soviet holiday for workers and not really celebrated here.
I think the scene where Don 'took' in Betty's father was more territorial than anything involving being kind to Betty. Betty is a possesion. Kind of when Roger was talking about 'winning' against Mona in light of their daughter's wedding, an alpha male sort of thing.
I liked the scene between Peggy and Don. Peggy can't wrap her brain around how one dimensional men are when it comes to female sexuality...why can't they love a woman for their brain? Don cautions her to keep her vulnerabilities hidden, it's weak. I liked when he said advertisers aren't artists...they sell problems, how true.

@Shannon68, re maypoles, several other people have posted that they had maypoles in their school days. I too remember maypoles when I was in grade school. It was more like celebrating spring than acknowledging a Soviet holiday.
And, actually what Don said to Peggy was that advertisers aren't artists, they SOLVE problems.

a few points, as far as Peggy and her sexuality: Peggy just doesn't give men what they want, it's not looks, she threatens men and challenges them and most men don't find that appealing. the guy in the bar was fooled by Peggy, she adopted a different persona for the evening. in season one she tells a guy in the hallway at Paul's party " I am in advertising and I am not buying what you are selling" Telling Pete she gave away his baby, terrible.She will probably find some guy who needs a Mommy/Boss type, but as she said herself she doesn't meet the right boys. The men she wants just don't want her. To quote "Gypsy" Some people got it and make it pay, some people can't even give it away.Many women have a sexual aura that men are attracted to they can be heavy, short, even ugly, but they are womanly Peggy just turns me off.
point 2 I think Monty is mysogonistic too, but I think he is going overboard to just get some of you ladies going

Don running his fingers through the grass is a sensual experience, like running fingers through someone else's hair - the cool ground, the soft green grass. Try it sometime.

BTW, when I was living in Hawaii from '60 - '62, we always had May Day with a Maypole. A traditional English occasion and early on, Hawaii had strong ties to England (Captain Cook, its "discoverer" et al.) Check out their state flag.

"May Day is Lei Day in Hawaii,
Garlands of flowers everywhere..."

I think Pryce's wife comment about insects had a lot more to do with their apartment and an unexpected infestation than the people. But then I might be trying to look on the sunny side.

I like how Don brought up his trip to California with the Madison Square Garden fellows and he said everything was new and fresh out there.

I've listened to the "Inside Mad Men 3.02" and, as was mentioned, Matt Weiner says the fingers in the grass represents change. I think that Don was looking at the teacher, thinking of the Patio ad, and that the "fingers in the grass" was similar to his "fingers in the sand" story to Betty (I think someone else brought that up as well). Because, like Betty says, he's good at that ("that" being advertising). I don't know... still trying to figure out how fingers in the grass symbolizes change.

Oh... we always had "May Day" at school in the early 70's. I think I was the only one who hated it (too much skipping and dancing for me). It's funny, someone just posted some May Day pictures on Facebook and all my friends were reminiscing about how much they loved it.

That was a great Don line to Peggy. She's getting a lil too big for her britches as they say. At the office she was trying to be something she's not. And she doesn't exactly handle that well. And with the guy, she has a title, and she wanted to toss her little title in the guy's face, instead of just talking about herself. Is Peggy getting an ego? (if so, like most egos, hers is easily bruised)

On another note, you have two women, basically standing up to Don semi-subtley in their own way each, which never really has happened. I think that's what it's about.

There was such great character development this episode with both Betty and Peggy.

Peggy played the role of the male, love 'em and leave 'em. In conjunction, I think last night was partially about how Betty has no male she can rely on, and Betty needed a man to lean on, and she's now starting to fend for herself. I think it's about a little more than just simple moodiness with her.

Most of the people on here commenting about the grass are talking about Don's sexual desires. I do not think it was anything like that at all.

The hand brushing the grass was another signal of Don's constant struggle between being a working machine and being free. Just like at the end of episode one when his daughter asks about being born, and Don says "Well, it was a late night, I had just gotten home from work-"; this his wife assumes the convo because he cannot remember.

It is obvious that work is his main priority and that he is the executioner. Everything else revolves around work, and the hand in the grass, and watching the school teacher dancing was him tasting the freedom to walk around with his shoes off, without having to worry about work, which the school teacher was doing free and happily.

What does everyone think. God I love this show.

Peggy is strying to find who she is and she she wants to be. She can't be the serious professional and the young woman getting men. Hah - - not much has changed in 40 years.

The "insect" comment floored me.

I am confused about Don taking in Gnen but I think I'm supposed to be - like all MM plts we're not supposed to get it all right away. I think we we will start to learn more about Archie's death and Don's guilt over it. Next week's ep is "My Old Kentucky Home."

I hope Betty doesn't lose the baby but I agree that it's a fascinating plot twist idea. She's ambivalent about the babya nyway. And if the baby was lost because of something with her dad being there...

To me the teacher was like AM - Don described her as pure and ideal - Men want her and women want to be like her.

The hand in the grass reminded me of Don's dream for Betty about putting her hand under her chair on the beach and feeling the cool sand. MW says it's about embracing change, and well, it is HIS show. But I detect a theme. And is it it just me or is he obsessed with birds?

I love the Margaret's wedding is on Nov. 23 and that Mona called the child bride "June." What happened that Margaraet wants a wedding now? She's been engaged for over a year?

MONA LOOKS FANTASTIC. Roger and Don both look like hell.

What do rings going side to side mean? I know one direction is girl and one is boy but I can't remember which.

Totally unrelated note: I saw a little bit of "Dirty Dancing" Sat. afternoon and swear I saw Rachel and Tilden Katz dancing at Kellerman's.

WHERE ARE JOAN'S RINGS? Have you looked at the still photos from next week's epi 3? There is a photo of Joan and she is not wearing any rings on either hand. As proud as she has been of that diamond ring I can't imagine why she is not wearing her wedding rings unless, unless, maybe she showed him the door. If so, GOOD FOR YOU Joanie. You should have dumped him after he raped you on the floor at S.C. Hooray, maybe she will remain at S.C. after all even though til now we have been led to believe she is quitting on July 1.

DraperBOS: I agree completely with you.

NancyinOhio - I think Betty losing her baby or something happening to the baby once it arrives would be a horrible turn of events. I don't see how it wouldn't send both Betty and Don over the edge of no return, and that wouldn't be really great for the show. Betty keeps commenting on how the baby really moves around - maybe that's a good thing?

Don views the care free, bon vivant woman dancing under the maypole and caresses the grass....Peggy again starts to explore her sexuality and come reconcile her new position of semi-equality with the men while also being a 'woman' like Ann Margaret - the tense, surprised look I think is a foreshadowing of Don's desire for a sensual love (unlike the sort of familial 'love' he has with his wife) and Peggy's blossoming of the new feminism (sexuality and equality/power) that takes root in the early 60s, and voila, Don and Peggy most certainly are in the infancy stages of, at minimum, a hot flirtation, and at best, a hot romance - just my guess....

My other guess is that grandpa is going to do something inappropriate in front of the kids or to the kids - and the crisis will be how Don and Betty react to it.....

There was talk of how Betty and her Dad used to fight - I wonder the nature and content of the fights, and if somehow that conflict will reemerge with grandpa and sally, and how everyone will deal with it.

just guessin

I know that Don doesn't mess around with office mates, so if he does run off with Peggy, it would be a first for him. I think that he purposely stays away from people he works with in order for nothing to get back to Betty.

MicheleKay: I'm not talking about watching t.v. episodes. None of which,(especially during the 60s) represented what life was really like. That would be like saying "Leave it to Beaver" was an example of prevailing parenting styles of the time. Several posters here have made the point that that's not true. I'm talking about what I personally experienced as a child in the 60s. As a cousin of mine recently told a real estate broker on the west coast when he tried to sell her a sub prime loan: "I'm from the Midwest, that's just NOT how we do things". So, maybe on the coasts smoking was acceptable anywhere and everywhere, but in our humble, rural setting even in the mid '60s it was seen as unnacceptible during school activities. Yes, I had a Dr. who smoked. But never did we see our teachers smoke. (not saying they didn't smoke, just that they didn't in front of us)

"That British guy and his wife are the most snobby, arrogant people!! Loved the reference to "the insects" they now have since they left London!
Americans/insects/ant farm? Hmmmm...."

I agree. Maybe you understood the reference the wife made about being near the U.N. "so there are plenty of Africans."

What was that about? It seemed to be more than bigotry, but I couldn't figure out what. Anyone?

MamboDeb: Ha, Monty told ME that I would apparently understand things better if I were older (all about the way things were), insinuating I was some kid. At nearly 60, I am hardly some naive kid!

DraperBOS, I agree I don't think it's sexual at all. I thought it was similar to Don walking in the ocean, holding his arms up, free. Same thing. You have the girl seemingly without a care in the world, barefoot, free, dancing in the grass. Remember when Don told Anna something about he sees his life in front of him but he's scratching trying to get int it? I think his observing the girl is that kind of thing.

Scarlettrose: If you're a kid at 60, then those of us born in 1961 must be babies!! :)

bipolarbear: Here's the deal with experience. It's different for everyone. For instance, many here talk about Mayday celebrations in school. Some however, are talking about the 1970s and even the 1980s. Some seem to remember them from the 60s. In my school, they did not have Mayday celebrations but apparently some did. I think it may depend on when and where you went to school. I assume that is the point you were trying to make to MicheleKay. I was raised in neither a big city nor a "humble rural setting," and everyone smoked (except the kids, LOL). Teachers, doctors, parents, neighbors, friends, store clerks, etc. It's a wonder anyone lived to today there was so much cigarette smoke in the air! However, I guess you remember it differently to some degree based on your location. As for Leave it to Beaver or any of those shows, no they were not reality TV that's for sure! But then, really, I don't think any show depicting family life or life in America is truly real (even the Reality Shows - LOL!). In the fifties there was Beaver, Father Knows Best, The Donna Reed Show (or perhaps that was early 60s) and all those. No, they weren't real but those people lived a little more modestly than say The Cosby's in The Cosby Show. Now THERE was a real show depicting things as they were. NOT! Anyway, my point is that I am sure everyone growing up has had different experiences depending on their particular circumstance.

Zabadu: Right you are! And, many here are indeed Boomers 1946 - 1964, (you too, I see) and none of us are kids, that's for sure!

I think Don is interested in MsMayPole for the Ann Margaret wannabe for the Patio campaign.

NancyinOhio: I wonder if Mona had a complete overhaul. She does indeed look great! Much better than last season. I am amazed Roger has even made it to season three what with his lifestyle of constant smoking and drinking. LOL! I am thinking that in real life, he wouldn't make it past the 1980s, although many people who smoked and drank up a storm are still with us today. Amazing!

!. Did anyone notice that Peggy asked dude if he had a "Trojan" rather than protection or a condom? Little brand recognition there!
2. I loath the English people. Why did the wife say there are a lot of Africans in the UN area?
3. Betty's dad living with them is going to be a disaster! How is she going to handle an infant, 2 kids and an old man with dementia?
4. Jane is a bitch. In the preview of next episode, the had to point out how she is loosing weight, to Joan, who appears to be gaining. Then giving instructions for one of the "girls" to flag down her driver!
5. Joan says she can't wait to get out of there, yet she doesn't seem interested in having a baby. That marriage is headed for the rocks - that should be interesting! I see a Roger/Joan romance rekindling.

Nancy, I think Betty losing the baby is a huge possibility. Last week when we were all trying to figure the significance of the opening flashback, I think we all decided to not knock ourselves out and that the answer will come later. Given the stillborn was a female, and Betty thinks she has a girl, maybe that's what the significance of the opening flashback will be.

Living the 1960s-1970s California lifestyle, I can only say that our parents smoked everywhere - in the car, at our school functions, church, airplanes...and we all celebrated May Day with springtime fervor. They even had May Day sales!!

Pink63: I was disappointed that the writers even brought in the British folks at all. I don't like any of them either. However, I didn't like Duck from last season and happily, he seems nowhere in evidence. Perhaps the Brits will finally be ousted in some replay of the Revolution and they'll head back across the ocean!

From Wikipedia: Ad man Alan Pottasch created The "Pepsi Generation" marketing campaign launched in 1963. Pottasch's "Pepsi Generation" marketing campaign has been called groundbreaking because it focused on the "attributes" of the consumers buying Pepsi's products (sometimes called "selling a way of life"), not just attributes of the product itself, such as price or taste.This was very uncommon marketing strategy for a company in the early 1960s.

In Catholic School in the '60s we celebrated the Feast Day of the Virgin Mary in May and I think we called it May Day. We made floral wreaths and decorated a table-top altar to Mary and sang her praises in songs. Anybody else remember that and can fill in what I'm missing??

Was that the compact version of the Oxford English Dictionary on the credenza behind Pryce's desk (in the fifth scene of the episode: Don, Roger, and Bert meet in Pryce's office; about 9 minutes into the episode)? The compact OED wasn't published until 1971, and the version they had (with the third, supplemental volume) didn't appear until 1987. Surprising, given the show's attention to detail...

I don't think the Brits are going anywhere. Matt Weiner has warned us that this season is about change. The British take over is a big change for everyone at SC, even if the take over wasn't well thought out. And now Don has to deal with not being in charge and not having control over everything at work as well as in his personal life. He saves the day and lands one of the biggest account ever for SC and the parent company doesn't even want the client. Maybe it's all a test for him. Is he going to be a stand up guy?

Laurie B: Wonder if Don and Company will set up those "Challenge" booths in the mid-seventies so people can take "The Pepsi Challenge?" I for one used to prefer it over Coke but I haven't consumed either in such a very long time, I don't even remember what they taste like! Looking back to youth, I don't think the colas were the greatest thing health-wise. Although, better than all the smoking and liquor that seemed to fuel things, I suppose. LOL!

hanna: Too bad, I just think they drag down the show. To me, they are very unlikable and when you have unlikable characters, well, it drags things down. What I mean is, they aren't even the characters you love to hate, such as Pete, for instance. Or Roger. Or even Don. They are just thoroughly colorless, unlikable, and I say send them packing posthaste!
If Weiner wants to hear from me he knows where to find me. LOL!

Laurie B: I did not attend Catholic School but a couple of my sisters-in-law did and they talked about the Feast of the Virgin Mary and honoring her, etc. I don't know all the details but they had to wear wreathes on their heads (much like the teacher had on her head - the one that Don was transfixed by), and they lit candles and carried baskets of flowers and beyond that, I'm not sure.

1. Can someone explain to me that inane conversation betwen Don & Betty at the very beginning of the show? They're in the kitchen and talking about going to Tarrytown (why?) and telling the kids they'll be bored and staring at buttons ???? I watched twice already and don't get that scene.

2. At the very end, why does Don stop and look into Peggy's office and kinda stay there watchng her work for a few seconds? That's odd.

3. I for one do not see Don sitting still on having the Penn Station/MSG account pulled. Like he said, that's potential business for 30 yrs. I can see a big blowup at the end of this season with Don leaving the company or something. He could start his own agency taking the MSG account with him. This merger with the Brits is turning out to be one fat mistake.

mcscan: Wow, I never even noticed any of this! Some of you really watch the show with an eagle-eye! In fact, someone was tlaking last night about the final scene where Peggy asks Don if he wants to talk about Pampers...and I thought she said "Do you want to talk about campers?" Sometimes I do find that a word or two here or there is difficult to hear or understand. I can re-watch and it's still the same word(s) that are muffled. No, turning up the volume does not help.

Racy: too funny! Later, I took a catnap, had a STEAK, and fired up the espresso machine, poured a Sambuca, and turned on the telly at 9:58PM EST (to watch it twice). . . After all, "Life is just a cocktail party." MM trivia-quote players/a bag of Fritos Scoops to the winner/who said that? Besides, I NEVER comment night-of, ALWAYS, day-after, although usu because of DEWARS and Soda, MMM.

God, Lane Pryce (Mr. Acerbic Milquetoast) is so wormy. SC/PP&L probably lost Campbell Soup/Europe because of him and the MSG account too. He is vile. I wish (impossible 'cause it's already in the can) that Quentin Tarantino wd guest write and direct an epi and have his way with Pryce. Ah, fantasy. Alarmingly, he employs the same tone, diction and elocution style as that adorable Jude Law (English Public Schools?). And talk about "Closeted."

What was up with his wife Rebecca talking about "Africans?" Did she mean Black people in her Sutton Place neighborhood or NYC or
was it something sexual-she had a little sly grin ?! Also, about the "insects," even hailing from an urban center like London, there are few-even today- sky scrapers. I think she was referring to a perspective. When one peers down to street-level from 20 floors up, people look like ants???Please advise. What floors are SC/PP&L on anyway, or is in an entire building?

Love how they included "NYTimes" architecture critic: Ada Louise Huxtable who vehemently opposed the Penn Station demolition. Such historical accuracy is a delight (nod to hanna).

Mrs. Joan Harris. Indeed. Vewy,vewy CRAFTY.

In NC we had a mayday celebration every year grades 1-6:
late Sixties/early Seventies.

Pretty proto-hippie teacher was HOT. Don looked so aroused, imagining playing in the grass with her. Ah yes, a time of change, and he's simultaneously working, creating a Pepsi campaign years before he wd use it ("I use our life all the time") targeting the youth movement-Thank you Parker
Benchly (any relation to Peter?)(and I bet Playtex comes back but not for THAT campaign; no-no). BTW The opening scene in Polanki's version of "Tess of the d'Urbervilles" (''Tess"), with the ravishing young Natassia Kinski, features a charming May Pole dance/celebration (too bad it ALL ends VERY badly). As other posters have cited, May Day is an ancient pagan tradition- as is the "Festival of the Trees" that the Christians borrowed as Christmas- which we also share with the Easter Europeans and Soviets.

PEGGY. You go girl. I loved her taking the hints and behaving so modern-ly. Even without the Trojan she cd take matters into her own soft hands and make the MOST of it. I bet that engineering student tries to find her again. HOT. Whew, I think it's time for a "pre-prandial" (as Pryce wd say) Heineken.

I'm off again today. I warn you: more soon.
C H E E R S !
YET, I promise not to infect-or infest- this thread with any of my private dipsomania. . .

What exactly do people think Don meant when he told Peggy to "leave some tools in your toolbelt"? I think I got the gist, but I'm wondering what other impressions are.

Laurie B: I too did not "get" that scene at all. I don't know what the "button" reference was about either. I also didn't get all the gist of the scene of the meeting regarding Madison Square Garden. All those people were talking and I wondered what they were talking about. My husband and I both looked blankly at one another. Of course, I also thought at the end when Peggy asked Don if he wanted to talk about Pampers, she asked him if he wanted to talked about CAMPERS!

And I'm sorry, but some of these scenes are a bit vague! SOme posters say to go and watch the interviews with Weiner where he explains what something mean, such as Don's hand in the grass while gazing at the teacher dancing around the Maypole. Then, everyone else comes up with their own interpretation. Anyway, if I have to watch Weiner tell me what a scene means (because it's vague), then I think the message or the writing should be clearer. I thought Don thought the teacher looked like someone from his past; she seemed to resemble someone from season one but I don't recall who that was).

Oh, and on third viewing (yes, it's an illness), I'm noting some similarities between Pete and Betty's brother, William. Bratty, wimpy, want to be in control but aren't, stomp their feet and whine when they don't get their way, kowtow to Don. What do you all think?

Not to mention that Peggy goes home with a Pete look-alike....what does that say about her?

hanna: I haven't a clue. Again, my husband and I stared blankly at one another on that one too! I think sometimes Weiner and COmpany try to be enigmatic on purpose and as I stated above, if I have to watch an interview with him explaining his interpretation of each scene, then I think things need to be a bit more straightforward. Also, ROger said something to Peggy in the elevator about her father or something that I TOTALLY didn't understand! Say what? The enigmas are becoming a bit tiresome. I wish the characters would come out and state whatever it is and be done with it!

Hi Bipolarbear! (I love your name!)

Thanks for jogging my memory, I knew there was something else the British wife said that was totally bizarre and made no sense. The reference to Africans at the UN?? What the hell does that mean?!

Hanna: I think he meant to not show all of your cards. Keep some stuff to yourself.

ScarlettRose: At the beginning of the ep, they were talking about going to Tarrytown to do some antiquing. The kids didn't want to go and Don told them they would go and be bored, but they were going. And if they were good, they'd go to Carvel and get ice cream.

Does anyone recognize the instrumental music played during the closing credits ?

Hanna: do you think, leave some tools in your belt, is along the same lines of Don telling Pete, I know you want everything you want, when you want it; as in it's best to be patient?

Peggy is a little ahead of herself and he lets her know that, maybe it's his way of telling her you'll get there, just not right now. It's kind of the same thing he did with Pete. (and like Pete, Peggy doesn't exactly handle it well)

I don't think Monty was saying date rape is acceptable but he is saying it did happen I think it was not looked upon the same way but of course it is wrong in any generation I think

I agree somewhat with his views feminism is just like any other movement it has it's pro's and con's

I think you guys should back off of him
He has his views just like you

It is appropriate to disagree with him if you do
But calling him names like misogynistic is not appropriate to me

hanna: I really didn't get that scene with Bill and Don, where Don TELLS Bill in no uncertain terms how it's going to be with Betty's Dad. I mean, to me this was not very realistic at all, although I can see it happening. Don is NOT Gene's son, and really, the question of what happens with Gene SHOULD be between Bill and Betty. I did mention something similar in my own family but usually, someone has power of attorney in these cases and it isn't the son-in-law. Although, again, we have someone in our family (married in) who feels it is their sworn duty to intercede and tell everyone how it's going to be; needless to say I would like to pull a Don Draper and tell them to go jump in the lake! That scene between Don and Bill was unsettling to me on many levels. I think the most honest one in the bunch is Judy (Bill's wife) who seems genuinely concerned for Gene and is between a rock and a hard place.

Why, with Betty expecting her baby, she would want to put herself under more stress caring for her father is anyone's guess. Bad move on Don's part, I thought.

Hi Laurie B!

I went to Catholic grammer school also. We dedicated the month of May to The Blessed Mother with a similar ceremony. Everyone dressed up, and one of the eigth grade girls placed a flower wreath on a statue of Mary.

To all Maddicts
I was thinking about the May pole thing. If anyone has seen the movie "Mona Lisa Smile" there is a scene where the girls at Wellsley College (very conservative) are performing a May pole ceremony. This was in 1954, the height of the Cold War. So, I doubt this ceremony was looked at as a Communist tradition in this Country.

Niceguy: Yes, the name calling should be avoided. And yes, rape was not always considered a crime punishable by law. It was always wrong, but not in the eyes of the law. Either was abandoning one's wife. Either was fathering a child out of wedlock (what I mean here is that in days gone by a man could father a child out of wedlock but there was no law that stated he had to help support it). And of course, women didn't have the vote for the longest time. All travesties and thank goodness for people like Carrie Nation, Margaret Sanger (without her and her ilk, birth control would still be illegal!), Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinhem, and all the rest!

Greg - I read his comment that way too, but somehow it ended up with Peggy going out and experimenting with casual sex. Is it because she's trying to be like the guys in the office - that's something that they might do.

Loved the humor of this episode.

"You and June can have a separate table." Nuff said.

Will.I.am Hofstadt: "I'm thirty years old. I'm a grown up. I'm smart. I want respect." spoken from the top bunk wearing Lone Ranger pajamas. Nothing happens to Will-Fredo as long as Gene is alive.

Peggy: "She sounds shrill." Never mind that I did my best Ann-Margaret impersonation in the privacy of my own bedroom. I hate it when Don is right.

And Peggy again: "Boy, this place is crowded. I feel like I'm on the subway." This line worked for Joan (aka Mrs. Harris), maybe it will work for me. Or maybe I should get a pen necklace.

Why Mayor McCheeseburger? Other than a resemblance to Pete and being completely unprepared (Do you have a Trojan? A sheath? A raincoat? You know, a Condom?), the guy hasn't the first clue.

Also, loved the attention to detail - Mayor McCheese had indentation marks where the springs of the sleeper hit his shoulder blades. Boy, Pegsters must have been pushin' pretty hard.

Lastly, bare feet appear to be another theme of S3. Change, schmange. Let's see more pre-hippie teachers dancing barefoot around a pole. Hey Drapers, how about a picture? Say Cheese! Everyone except you, Don, to reinforce your disconnect with the world around you.

Zabadu: Oh, I see. Thanks. Although, I have no clue what Carval is (a town, an ice cream shop?) but the scene makes more sense. I guess Bobby meant the musty smell of antiques when he said "Those stores smell." (Why would anyone take a child antiquing? I cannot think of anything more boring for a kid! Oh well.

Still don't know what Roger and Peggy were discussing in the elevator. Again took, the meeting regarding the Madison Square Garden deal did not really make sense. I didn't even realize they were discussing MSG until much later in the show! Again, thanks for the information.

Scarlettrose: Just the opposite, I think. Don is very protective of Betty. Betty thought she would be a better daughter if she, not Judy, took care of dear old Dad. William was telling Betty they had two options, sell the house or they'd move in the house, which upset Betty and caused Don to say"oh no you don't, there's a third option".

In his anger at William for upsetting Betty, he in essence gave Betty the third option she was afraid to ask for, moving dad in with them. She loved him for it. However, neither knew how bad Dad was. Betty was told, and was unbelieving. Don just went with his "power gut".

I didn't like Ann Margret when she was young, but I loved her in "Carnal Knowledge" with Jack Nicholson, Candice Bergen and Art Garfunkle.

@FancyNancy: I, too, had black coffee with Sambucca while watching the show last night. Next time I'll clink my cup to you.

Carvel is an ice cream shop.

@Scarlettrose: Try putting closed caption on for the words on the bottom. This way, if the actors mumble you can read what they say.

One more thing
Don looks way to good for someone that has been smoking for years , drinks alot, has a bad diet and never exercises

That's Hollywood and women would not watch the show if he looked like his lifestyle would predict

I'm losing respect for the show

So you have little industrious Sally Draper, whose mother says she's taking to her tools like a good little lesbian.
You have industrious little Peggy, who Don tells to leave some tools in her belt.
coincidence, or fun with dialogue?

.....This is probably off-topic (is there a topic?), but has anyone caught Donielle Artese ("Sheila White") on the Geico commercials?

She is sitting in a courtyard, in an aqua cardigan sweater, and the money is calling to her. You can't miss those dimples.

Donielle is as cute in modern clothes as she is playing Sheila. Wonder if we'll be seeing her this season.....

60s child: You know, this maypole thing has taken on a life of it's own! Anyway, I agree, perhaps it was a celebration of spring and all that, and did not really have Communist overtones. I can't recall who intimated this, but we never celebrated May Day where I went to school. I think every school is different and so is every part of the country. As for "Mona Lisa Smile," I remember I kept looking at my watch to see how much time had passed since the last time I looked at it. I do remember the maypole scene in that movie, though. It's just that the whole thing seemed to drag for me. I couldn't wait for it to end! Liked Roberts much better in Mystic Pizza and Erin Brockavich.

wasthere: Nah, sometimes the dialogue is so cryptic anyway, it wouldn't help! LOL!

Niceguy: Well, you're probably right. But let's be honest, if the show didn't feature at least a couple of hunks and a few attractive women, NO ONE would watch! If Don Draper had been played by the same guy that played Freddie Rumson last season (Joel Murray, I think) then he would have indeed looked like the lifestyle he led, and viewer-ship would drop precipitously. In fact, if Murray would have played Don, and say, that snooty English guy would have been Roger, well, the series would have faded after one airing! sort of like James Bond. He HAD to be played by someone dashing! Anything less and the Bond series would have faded at the beginning!

Hi Scarlettrose!
AnotherMaddict posted that he/she grew up in Westchester County, the nearest Carvel ice cream shop for the Drapers would be in Tarrytown (they live in Ossining)
Roger was asking Peggy if she would not invite her father to her wedding? Peggy said her father was dead. Evidently, Roger's daughter isn't inviting him to her wedding.
The wedding will be interesting because she is getting married on Nov. 23rd, 1963. I have a feeling this is how Matt W. and the writing team will intertwine the JKF assassination and funeral into the MM stroyline.
The MSG/Penn Station scenes are based in fact. The old Penn Station was torn down to build MSG, and rebuilt nearby. This caused a big uproar at the time. Many people felt that the old Penn should have been preserved. Later, the same thing almost happened to Grand Central Station. Thank God, Grand Central was saved!!
I think in the 1960s the Country was so wrapped up in "progress" and "new" things, we didn't value historical icons as much as today. Just my humble opinion.
Hope this helps a little!

I have to disagree w/u Niceguy. Not everybody with all of those bad habits, suffers in their looks. A lot of the way people retain their looks is hereditary (thank God for my Mom!) But he did look pretty haggard in this episode, anyway. Look at Marilyn Monroe, gorgeous til the end- major partier, plus men often get better w/age, smoking or not.

Zabadu: Thanks again. Would never have know this. And with that, I think it's time to go and do something constructive (or at least some chores). All for now. Have fun!

Zabadu: Since we have the same issue in our family (Dad has Dementia, etc.) I am sure I might be looking at the scene a bit differently. Somehow, I think Betty is conflicted. Oh well, Doesn't really matter. And I am out!

wrong to abandon one's wife especially with kids or if she is unable to care for herself, wrong to abandon ones family and of course rape is wrong too if it truly is rape

But don't agree that the feminist movement brought only good things Ideological movements can create extreme viewpoints ,,,like pendulum swinging from one extreme to the other it creates it's own imbalance

Rape is wrong if it's "truly rape"? What? There's "not so truly rape"?

Well as far as Don Looks
Slim fit ,no wrinkles ,no grey hair while he approaches his forties is unrealistic at least he should have a little paunch
But it's about ratings and money like everything else on TV

I don't watch the show to look at the women myself
I just like the cultural references and how they recreated the decor and clothes and stuff like that....... it is really interesting

Niceguy!!! RAPE IS ALWAYS RAPE!!!!!

Don Draper is 36 - but Dick Whitman is not.

Lots of people abused themselves like Don/Dick does, and still looked good. They paid for it down the line with their health.

I think even with great genetics he still looks to good
Ha

And what about Roger from last season ,,,almost killed himself climbing a bunch of stairs when the elevator failed and he had to get to a meeting on the 20th floor
Threw up as he entered the office

Ha

That was realistic

I need the combo myself, looks & intellect, for both MadMen and Stef's Men...lol! I wish it were the 60's, I love the way things were then. One shot when people were getting on the elevator to SC, everybody was so dignified and dressed getting on, not like today where people can't see around them cuz they're on the cell phones.

Roger is older than Don by about 10 years, and drinks and smokes twice as much. He's also had two heart attacks. So climbing 23 flights and throwing up - natural.

Looking good in your early thirties isn't much of a stretch.

I can't figure out if you're for real or if you're just posting this stuff to get reactions.

Hanna: RE: Peggy/casual sex

Like you, I also think part of it is Peggy kind of modeling the men's behavior. She's done it before. Example, last season when she was mad at not being invited to the after-hours meetings, instead of saying she deserves to be there because she's part of the office, she instead says "I'm a good drinker". She is although in many aspects an outsider, she's also one of the boys.

I think she went the one-nighter route for validation. I think for her this is more than just a job. Joan could take or leave it, it's just a job. But for Peggy it's more, it's personal. And she just got personally shot down.

Regarding sex, underneath the guy locker room mentality, there's another layer that for us a lot of times it's seeking validation.

So I think you have a combination of Peggy modeling the men in not only the actual action, but modeling also the idea of validation for esteem given she took it so personally when Don shot her down. Out of nowhere, unprompted.... "I work for a jerk!"

I don't know, I think it's one of those things you run the risk or thinking a little too hard, but that's how I saw it.

Nice, how old is Hamm in real life? He looks just right for his age, and obvious good genes. Roger is pretty old, and different looks-wise. I always remember him from
Sex & the City when he wanted Carrie to do something gross to him. He still strikes me in that demeanor.

Roger is so callous and has a strange sense of humor.

When he and Don were at dinner, he mentioned the arial accident that occurred April 18, 1963 when Henrietta Wallender fell from the tightrope. I shuddered when he said they, "...cleaned her up with a hose!"

It must be the alcohol that makes him speak without thinking......

I know....It is spelled Wallenda.....Roger called her Yetti, but her given name was Henrietta.....

No not typing to get reactions

Good points about Rodger being ten years older
with two heart attacks
With the smoking and drinking and all his whole life
maybe it would have been more realistic if he just croaked
or ended up in the hospital

I think even a fit person would throw up after eating and drinking alcohol after that kind of unanticipated exertion

I still think that Don looks too good at 36 with his lifestyle
In his real life I'm sure he is a regular attendee at the gym and is good about his diet but I don't know

Did anyone notice that Roger's daughter's wedding date is Nov 23, 1963? That would be the day after the Kennedy assaination. Yikes!

I agree with the poster who says the British have added nothing to the show so far. Very one-dimensional characters.

Re: the maypole. I thought it foreshadowed Flower Power and that part of Don that finds such a lifestyle attractive. Remember his artist girlfriend in Season One? Her freedom fascinated him. I think the same is true for the Maypole Woman.

Greg, I left a post for you on the Episode 1 thread. I hope you will take a moment to read it. Thanks.

Again, Don Draper is 36. Dick Whitman is not.

Jon Hamm is 38.

Greg - RE "I work for a jerk" - Still not sure if she was just playing the overworked 'secretary' role (she didn't correct BurgerBoy) so she could go home with him or if she was genuinely talking about Don OR Roger (the talk in the elevator). Still so much food for thought....

@jStephanieJo,

Jon Hamm turned 38 on March 10th. He's younger than me, and if I wasn't married and had kids I wouldn't mind being his "Cougar".
(Hey, men have affairs with younger women all the time, why do some people think it's odd for a woman to want a younger man?)

Peace & love

Greytone thanks for the reminder of the flying wallendas, to clear up a couple of things The Buttons that Don tells Bobby will seem interesting, are the buttons on the antiques chairs : he is being sarcastic about how boring looking at antiques will be fo a kid that age. Also Rebecca Pryce is referring to cockroaches not how small people will look from a high rise window. in a big apartment building in nyc even if you keep a spotless home, if someone else has roaches, you will too

Wait, am I correct? Is Dick 36 and Don would be in his late 40s? Now I'm finding conflicting information.

@ScarletRose: I wouldn't be so anxious to laud Margaret Sanger. Her founding of Planned Parenthood (should be called Unplanned Parenthood perhaps?) was not for oh-so-altruistic reasons. She really was for race purification. Check out some Margaret Sanger quotes:"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."-1922
"Eugenics is … the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems.-1921
"...The most urgent problem today is how to limit and discourage the over-fertility of the mentally and physically defective."-1921
"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism"-1922
"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."-1933
"[Our objective is] unlimited sexual gratification without the burden of unwanted children..." -1924

zab - I think Don took Dick's name, social security number, birthday, etc. but kept his own age. He couldn't pass for someone 10+ years older than him.

I meant Dick took Don's name. Ugh.

I would like to say hello all. I was a pretty avid poster at the end of last season, but have been lurking until the premier of this newest season. Feels good to be back! I think I have read every ones posts--so I'm good there. Whew! Quite a feat, that!

I want to say that I loved last nights MM! As I went to bed I was saying over and over in my mind: Peggy, Peggy, Peggy! I felt sorry for her after the show. I believe she is suffering from the ugly duckling syndrome. While she is a lovely girl, she is certainly no Joan--or Ann Margret, for that matter!
She is going to have to carve a niche for herself in the business world and in the world between men and women. Easier to do currently, but in the 60's, much harder--as her Hamburger Boy-toy showed us last night. He instantly lumped her in with the secretaries, as most gals of that age were either students or married. However, he went for her just as strongly as she went for him. VERY much how things are today, that much doesn't seem to have changed.
Today, the morning after, I feel that Peggy needs to do as Don stated: Leave a few tools in her belt. It seemed to mirror his 'advice' to Sal last week!
I DID failed to notice the mirroring that Greg did! (good catch Greg!) Little Sally playing with her tools like a lesbian. Hmmmmmm . . . . . coincidence or no??

This Maypole thing has kind of spun out of control on this forum, hasn't it?
I'm not sure who suggested it first, but Maying a strictly Soviet thing? I imagine they might do their form of Maying with a pole or not, but Maying has been going on all over Europe for EVER!! Literally! The Maypole represented a phallic symbol or a Pagan symbol of fertility. It later moved on to the Romans/Greeks and was the chief dance of rustic England.
The central theme--no matter if Pagan, Roman, Greek, Irish, Swedish, or what have you--is renewal, or change. I believe it was Zabadu who said she watched Inside Man Men video and heard Matt say that Don's hand in the grass--while avidly watching the teacher and the children with the Maypole--signifies he's "Embracing Change".
Perhaps the Maypole and it's ancient meaning, is just a Maypole.

I myself was born November 18, '63 and it was probably '71 before I REALLY remember school, other than attending. We did NOT celebrate with a Maypole, but we DID celebrate May 1st--or May day--with May Baskets. Anyone remember those? We would make small baskets out of whatever we could get our hands on, fill them with flowers, candy and what not. We'd then deliver them to people we cared about. USUALLY people of the opposite sex, in hopes they would chase us down and try to give us a kiss. I did this with my own children 'til they became "too old"!

One big question I have is the amount of television Sally and Bobby watch. WOW!! Did kids who were born in the 50's watch that much?? My brothers, sister and I were hardly EVER inside enough to watch TV. We were ALWAYS outdoors. Either right in our own yard or at friends, or the park. Be it spring, summer, fall or winter. It's not that my mom wasn't a HUGE television watcher--avid!! But we were not. We had better things to do than watch TV. Does Matt et all have these children watching too much TV compared to how it really was?

@Chattie-I hear ya!!
@Zab-Again, whatever his age, 36, 38, 40 he's got it, and probably won't lose it for a long time!

@NiceGuy: I am in my early 70s and have been smoking 2 packs a day since 1955, eating sweets and not exercising but everyone tells me I look to be in my 50s. I'm also relatively healthy.

@StephanieJo: In the 1960s we used to shop "on the avenue" in high heels, dresses, etc. On special occasions we dressed like Vanna White
(backless dresses, chandelier earrings, the whole nine yards).

@(Not so) NiceGuy (Uncle Fester) - your comments are all kind of snarky and critical. Why are you hanging out here? You didn't even really like the show.

Scarlettrose: Anyway, if I have to watch Weiner tell me what a scene means (because it's vague), then I think the message or the writing should be clearer"

I completely agree and am glad I'm not the only one.

What do you think was meant in the Pryce restaurant scene when his wife made the U.N. 'plenty of Africans' comment? I didn't get that or the insect comment. (roaches in NY?? ) Hard to believe there were never roaches in London. Besides, wasn't DDT still sprayed all over the place back in those days? (my hubby still talks about riding his bike behind the fogging trucks in the Summer) It's amazing we're all still alive.

So many of you are so helpful with some of the content questions. Anybody have any ideas about the above?

Oh how I envy all of you. I missed last nights episode "Love Among the Ruins." Does anyone know if AMC will run the full 2nd episode here online like they did the season preimere? Or am I just *&%$ out of luck?!

Oh how I envy all of you. I missed last nights episode "Love Among the Ruins." Does anyone know if AMC will run the full 2nd episode here online like they did the season preimere? Or am I just *&%$ out of luck?!

shannon - Repeats will occur all week, including 10pm tonight. There's also On Demand for cable customers.

Ham is 38 in real life and looks good for his age but I think he is a fitness person

But I still think at 36 Don Draper looks too good for his lifestyle and it is not realistic

Back for a minute while a load of wash agitates.

@Laurie: Oh my, I think we better not go there, i.e, Margaret Sanger. Of course, as with every noted figure who accomplished much and did a lot of good, there is always the flip side. Even Mother Teresa had her critics, after all! I am a Sanger fan but I see you are not. Anyway, I don't want to get too deeply into this thing because you know what happens when we go down these roads. Last week when I was unable to register (ugh, this site!), I was at least able to read comments (while vainly trying to register) and I saw the raging debates about Sal and the bellboy. It got pretty hot there for a while (and I don't mean Sal's scene in the hotel!). Anyway, your comments on Sanger are duly noted. Thanks.

bipolarbear: Yep, if one has to find out what a writer meant, then to me, he or she isn't a very good writer or is trying too hard to be enigmatic. Let's have it in plain English, please! The facts, ma'am, just the facts!"

Hi 60'sChild & LaurieB, good to see you back!
Some posters have commented that they hope MM runs long enough to see Don "turn on, tune in, drop out" or even wear leisure suits in the 70's. If Don is 36 in 1963, he wouldn't be part of the "hippie" culture, which doesn't really hit until the late 60's. He would be too old then, and probably viewed in the category of "never trust anyone over 30."
My parents were only in their mid-20's in 1963, and they were already married, working, settled in suburbia, etc. That generation was still largely a product of the 40's & 50's, they weren't paying much attention to the Beatles and the hippies.
But I will concede that DD might be the one person who could make a leisure suit look sexy!

Well Nice Guy, this is television, not real life.

Niceguy: You don't watch the show to look at the women, you say? Not at all, eh? This sounds to me like the guys who used to say they didn't look at Playboy for the pictures, just the scintillating articles. LOL!

I for one enjoy a little eye candy. Of course, there has to be good dialogue and plot, but never hurts to have a Jon Hamm or John Slattery on hand! And to those who seem to think Slattery is old. He is not. He is 47, I believe. That isn't old by any stretch of the imagination, unless you yourself are 10.

Nice-I do like u, but fitness does NOT make a person good-looking or youthful. Prime example: Madonna, need I say more.
Was There-that time sounded great, and so do you for 70. I'm always told I look younger, smoke a bit, candy, etc.

Niceguy: As Zabadu stated, this is television, not real life. In a perfect world, I would look like Megan Fox, but hey, this isn't a perfect world, either. My own father smoked and drank up a storm in the sixties and he looked very good for a long period of time. In fact, he did not start to get gray hair until almost sixty!

Slattery is my age? Oh, what I missed, what I missed...

Laurie B
I love the show for the reasons I already mentioned.... the cultural references .....the decor amazing how it is recreated
doesn't mean I can't point out what I think is unrealistic about it

If you don't agree with me... fine tell me why
But using adjectives like snarky and critical ?

Please

As for the debate on appearance, I think a lot has to do with genetics. Some folks can smoke and drink and eat all the wrong foods and still look slim, no gray hair, and no wrinkles. They can look this way for a long time despite their lifestyle. I think basically, genetics rule. And let's be honest, would we really want to see Draper looking dissipated and hunched over? Or looking like Freddie Rumson (no offense to Joel Murray). Would we want to see Roger looking like the Hunchback of Notre Dame? With his lifestyle, he certainly should! Remember the Cosby show and those cute kids? And Claire was stunning. That's television!

And I'll say it again. In a perfect world, I would look like Megan Fox and never look any older than 25. Well, so much for a perfect world! TV is illusion. So is the movies. So are the fashion magazines. I think this goes without saying.

Yum-Yum: I just devoured a succulent Reuben. God, I'm twittering-no I don't do that, nor facebook (I call it "facef...") too narcisstic and trite. Everbody is always inviting you to join:
Yuk-Yuk. IM/HUMBLE/O.

Was Carol Linley in "The Apartment" too? Was she in "The Poseidon Adventure"

Dang it, I tried to watch some segments of "Love Among the Ruins" online but the feed was way out of kilter. I'm trying to reassess exactly what Rebecca Pryce said about Africans and the UN. Any takes, explans? I bet that Bordeaux cost a pretty penny-at Lutece- again? Nell's? 51 Club? Sardi's?Tavern? I have a wonderful 50's relic that my aunt"Mildred"-a burlesque dancer-stole from The Stork Club: a stainless ashtray with 2 open-mouthed storks where you rest a cigarette. Lovely.

I adore how Greg is so concerned about Betty. She has always been an icy, blonde, Hitchcockian Beauty. And she's married to a Cadillac of a man. Yes, she is lonely and seems to have little joy in her children. We have NEVER seen them all laughing together, or doing s'thing silly. She is austere with them but always feeds them and keeps them on schedule. I wonder what wd make her happy. How can Betty and Don attain the intimacy they both crave? Together? So many people think that great-looking people do not have problems-but EVERYONE has issues, hurts and disappointments; anger. Maybe with this new baby she'll awaken or-horrors-the opposite- and wallow in a maelstrom of post-partum psychosis. She is childish. She obviously enjoys sex. Hmm. I have never really thought too much about her because I am so obsessed with Don/Dick.

I lovelovelove polar bear's noting Bill Hofstradt's rather imperious behavior in the Lone Ranger pjs. Don sure put him in his place. Don can be so wonderfully decent: in situations concerning Freddy, Peggy, Anna, Rachel, the Euro-Trash, and now he has welcomed demented Gene into his home. As Greg was remarking earlier, Don's duality exemplifies the writers' effective use of dichotomy.

dahlizyx: you totally predicted the Penn Station/MSG controversy being played out at SC/PP&L. Congrats.

StephanieJo: I too squirmed 'cause I thought the "Bye-Bye Birdie" clip AND the maypole segment went on too long. No, I don't think it was filler but simply creative license.

As always, Mad Men is the cherry on top of my Sunday if not in my Rob-Roy. . .

Cheerily. . .F-N

Niceguy: We respect that you like the show for what you like it for. Whatever that is. Oh, the period of time and all that, cultural references, etc. I really don't think it is unrealistic, but of course, it IS a TV show. Not a Reality Show. There has to be a little extra zing here and there because if we were watching a show about a REAL ad agency with REAL people, you would fall asleep in five minutes. The glitz and the glam are part of the allure of Mad Men and really, most television shows.

If we wanted real life we wouldn't even need to watch television. I worked in the corporate world for years and believe me, it wasn't like Mad Men. It was hard and dreary sometimes, and no one looked like Jon Hamm or Slattery, or Joan, or Betty. My bosses were usually paunchy and old (by my standards then). Yes, that was real. But if we wanted real, well again, we could just not bother with television. The Leave it to Beaver show was not really real. How many suburban households kept their houses looking like the Cleaver's? Or the Anderson's? Or even the Brady's later on in the late sixties? How many kids looked like Marcia Brady? If I want real I will just live life. I want a little fantasy too, because it makes me forget my problems for an hour on Sunday night! Have you tried Reality TV (which isn't really real either).

fancynancy: Carol Lynley was not in "The Apartment" to my knowledge. What a great movie that was.

HEY SC, An answer to your question concerning the conversation about Betty’s dad driving: It was on the spoilers (pictures) thread; someone who lives near where MM is filmed saw a Sally double driving a car with Betty’s father in it.

And not to belabor the point, but I grew up in Alabama (can’t get much more conservative than that!) in the 50s and 60s and my elementary school had a maypole celebration every year. And parents smoked at it; they smoked everywhere! I definitely agree, the teacher was way too hippie-like, especially her hair. Maybe she’ll teach the world to sing in perfect harmony.

I’ve never heard of Patio, either. Could it have just been a test product that was distributed on the East Coast?

When Rebecca Pryce said “Africans” in the restaurant, could she have meant white South Africans and Kenyans? That has a LOT of implications. She may be African, not English, herself. The English are like huge wet blankets. When they come on screen it’s like all the oxygen is being sucked out of the room. I assume that’s intentional, guess we’ll have to wait and see why.

And finally, where did those bunk beds come from? And why hasn’t Bobby been sleeping in them? And what room was that that Gene was in? An attic? This show is bad about moving furniture, doors, rooms, etc. For those of us with floor plan OCD, it makes us crazy.

I've been on a mission since last night to find out what type of sunglasses Don wore. Well here it is folks, and they are not Ray Bans:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/ao-original-pilot-sunglasses.html
http://www.extremeeyewear.com/store/originalpilotaviatorsunglasses-p-28.html

MamboDeb: I never heard of it either (Patio). Either has my husband and we are both near 60 years-old. I remember DietRite and Tab (blech!) but not Patio. What an odd name for a drink.

And oh gosh, I hope that hippie/flower child chick from the future (the maypole teacher) doesn't EVER sing "I'd like to teach the world to sing..." I hope NO ONE sings it EVER again! I heard that song every hour on the hour back then, it seemed, and really grew weary of it. I never liked it much going in, but i know a lot of people did.

Oh wait, wasn't that song (the one I cannot stand) "Id Like To Teach the World To Sing..." about Coke? Or they used Coke in there someplace and changed the lyric for a Coke ad. "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company." Something like that. Oh my gosh, I will be "hearing" this inside my head for the rest of the day!

Scarletrose
I don't watch this show to look at he women that is true
Don't agree with your comparison of looking at playboy
the women in playboy are very attractive and they are naked and airbrushed too

Good point about your Dad smoking and drinking into his sixties and looking very good
Good genetics probably

But Don smokes drinks has a stressful job doesn't eat well
so I still think he looks too good for all that But as you all say
"it's television"

I am merely commenting like all the others
Don Drapers appearance (to me) is too good for someone with his lifestyle
But that is just one observation and I have spent enough time on it

Stephanijo Thanks for that
Granted exercise alone does not keep one younger but it helps

Niceguy: Well, he looks great and however he does it, more power to him! Ditto for Slattery and the women! Whatever their secret, more power to 'em!

And now, my load of wash is done agitating so I must run.

Later, people.

Nobody can figure the insects/African comments during the dinner with the Pryce's???? And I thought I was the only one having a hard time following. Go figure.

Any guesses? Anything? Why would the writers have the reference if it didn't mean anything. The slightest bit of dialog the last 2 seasons has always managed to have reference at some later point.

Yes, its drivin' me nuts. Can ya tell????

Misogeny abounds.

MADtini Time: Were those glasses available in 1963? They look pretty modern to me, but what do I know.

Patio sold on the West Coast too. I was just reading up about it and it said that it was up to the distributing companies in each state to advertise/carry it, and some did and some didn't. It wasn't popular among the distributers. Wait another year, they'll rename it Diet Pepsi and off the sales will go!!

I for one cannot ever see Don Draper donning a leisure suit. Those were for trend followers, faddists, which Don is not. Remember him going toe to toe in the 1st Season with Midge's beatnik friends? He thought they were losers.

@NiceGuy - You said Don's losing his looks (which we love) so it's almost like you're jealous of him (just remember, he's a TV character LOL) As for you losing respect for the show... oh brother. You said Don was a money-chaser and was immoral. You called Ann-Margret shrill and slutty after admitting that was the first time you'd seen her perform. I understand you like the cultural references and architecture, but come on... it IS a prime time drama. You can probably find culture and buildings on PBS and the History Channel. You also said "too many women here"... See, that's just kind of snippy to me.

Bipolar bear: I figured her statement meant what numbers they lost in friends, they gained in insects (i.e. roaches, etc.). Someone said that the African's comment could have meant "plenty of maids and nanny's available". I do believe it was meant as either a low-class or racist remark, but that's just my take.

Oh my God Scarlettrose! I was thinking of that song, and how Coca Cola changed the words for the Coke campaign! Wow, the memories!

I don't remember a Pepsi product called Patio either. If it existed my parents would have bought it, they were always dieting when I was a kid.
We lived close to Albany NY where there was a huge Pepsi plant. My whole family grew up with Pepsi products. I know the corporate headquarters were in NYC also.
I do remember Diet Pepsi, TAB, and diet rite cola.

I found a couple of drinking glasses a few years ago at an antique shop in pristine condition with the Diet Pepsi logo on them. Besides having the Diet Pepsi logo on them, they are tall and thin. There's a psychological marketing tool if I ever saw one!!

I was a big TV/transistor radio kid and remember the Diet Pepsi jingle, the melody and words. But, I don't remember when it came out. I know it was the 60s, I'm just not sure when.

I did have one question
Did Patio as an alternative to Diet Rite Cola really exist ?

Did it have any popularity at all.. if it existed?

I thought Don's comment that is sounded like a floor funny

LaurieB: He also said that Rape is wrong if it's "truly rape". I think he may have started out as Monty....

Oh yes I see Patio did exist

I just posted about that nice guy. Look up for the info.

he is very Monty like, not to be a downer, but given the history of this show what are the chances Betty will not bring a live baby into this world, also she should be due in June correct?

Don's hand in the grass reminded me of the time he put his hand up Bobbie Barrett's skirt telling her to get Jimmy to apologize.

What a classic Betty episode! I think Don wanted her dad to move in so Betty could see firsthand how badly he needs to be in a nursing home. If she can't handle him, she'll willingly put him in a home. Don always thinks he knows best, so he's going to let the little woman see it for herself. It was interesting to hear her brother say that Betty and Daddy were always fighting but she doesn't remember that. She comes across as such a Daddy's girl, so that was an interesting piece of information.

Don also knew/thought/was convinced he was right about Ann Margret. Peggy thought differently. Don actually understands women very little although he sees himself as a ladies' man and thinks he understands them so well. I loved Peggy's take on her. I disagree Peggy that wants to be like Ann. She was making fun of her. (And rightly so. That woman is annoying.) Don can learn a lot from Peggy. We'll see if he starts to realize that. Roger in the elevator asking her about her father showed he knows he could learn something from her. "You're a young girl. You're the only one who doesn't have that stupid expression..." Already having one baby, Peggy is smart to make sure the guy has a Trojan, even if she is on the pill. You just can never be too careful.

I was born in 1958 and yes, kids in the 60's watched a lot of TV. A lot. Betty likes the kids out of her hair. It was not until later that people came to understand the electronic babysitter was not the way to go.

bipolarbear - I'm puzzled by the insects comment too. My guess would be that she's referring to the lovely little bugs you might find in an apartment in NYC. Wasn't the city especially dirty at that time (I noticed a lot of garbage on the steps from the subway Peggy was exiting and on the streets). The African comment was even more confusing. Maybe she was just trying to make inane chatter and so she threw in some sort of racist comment. ??

.....Some random stuff (since practically all else has been very well said).....

Roger is quickly becoming one of those men for whom sexual harassment laws were written.

Certainly his comments are becoming cruder, a little less-than-witty, and definitely more insulting to women. (Although the suit of armor comment was pretty funny, and vintage "Roger").

I think if I were Betty, and Roger had said that ("Grace Kelly swallowed a basketball"), I would have had a much stronger reaction.

Don't comments like that usually indicate acting out a certain amount of passive-aggressive anger? If so, where is THAT coming from?

Betty's rudeness to Don's secretary was a little breathtaking, but that's just me I guess. Similar to when Joan "dissed" Sheila White at Paul's party.

Also, this is nit-picky, but would the ladies have been indulging in prediction superstition over Betty's pregnancy out in the open like that, in 1963?

Only those who were there at the time would know that, but it seemed unlikely (to me) they would be doing that out in the secretary pool, even if it was lunch and mostly cleared out.

Mambo.....I was wondering all the same things as you about the sudden "addition" of various rooms and beds, etc., in relation to the original layout I thought we had all nailed down.

Strikes me they are going to need a bigger house soon, if Sally and Bobby and Grandpa Hofstadt are to have their own rooms. Sally is getting to "that age".....

Also random, came across this indirectly at Basket of Kisses.....

Betty’s father, Gene (Ryan Catrona), (listed in S1 credits as Gene Driscoll, though in S2 Betty’s maiden name was revealed to be Hofstadt–a show bible snafu) has diabetes and high blood pressure. He has a summer house (presumably has had it for many years) in Cape May, and his main residence is in Pennsylvania. Gene met Gloria (Darcy Shean) sometime before Ruth died (Gloria attended the funeral). By mid-1962 Gene and Gloria married.

Not sure if many people are aware that Gene and Gloria were married, which puts the whole house(s) issue in new perspective.

I didn't hear anything in this episode about Gloria divorcing Gene, but neither was I aware they had married. I was under the impression they were more "betrothed."

Don't go by me in any case. I ain't the brightest crayon in the box!

Hobocode: Lots and lots of babies made it into the 1960s (me included)...I'm thinking more May-ish for the baby, but who knows. Could be early, could be late!

No not jellous of Jon Hamm like I said that is just one observation but funny

If are reffering to me being Monte or misogynistic
please keep personal criticisms to yourself you don't know anything about me and I am not making comments about what I think your personal characteristics are

Any one tried Patio?

I know I have relatives that liked Diet Rite and they drank a lot of that stuff

Zabadu! Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!! That did help. I've read all your posts. You sure have lots of insight on this series. Do you know someone involved in the show personally??????

Maybe people don't realize that in NYC (still to this day) no garbage disposals are allowed, even in the toniest neighborhoods, so EVERYBODY scrapes their food into the trash. So yes, insects are prevalent, to which degree depends on how much spraying you can afford. (If this is no longer true, someone let me know.)

As for her "africans" remark.... who knows. She's a dour, spoiled woman.

Bipolarbear: I don't know anyone - and if I did, I'd be begging them to let me just lie at Hamm's feet.

I watch the recap videos and read all the reviews and get different insights right after the program. Doesn't mean I'm right, but I do take Matt at his word in the videos.

LaurieB: NO garbage disposals allowed? How weird is that?

Hi All!
long time lurker- first time poster here.

Peggy/Joan: They each want what the other has: it's just the way some women are. J wants P's headstrong down attitude (she loved reading those TV scripts last season why didn't she fight to keep that position?, and perhaps she wishes she had the strength to leave her rapist husband - maybe she will??) P wants J's sexual power & confidence (hence that Ann Margret mirror dance and the tryst with Mayor McCheese, or is she simply being "like the men" as other posters said? ...maybe a new black bra would help her out ;)

The Brits: the bugs comment seemed okay (lots of bugs in NYC) but the the blacks comment I still don't get.
Maybe I'm wrong but isn't the Draper's living room totally re-done? New drapes, new chairs, new tables? Too bad that $$ can't fix everything like Betty imagines...

Loved Don's line "your words not mine" to Rodger, remember how Rodger tried to use Don's words against him last season?

Don: I'm still suspicious, perhaps taking in Betty's Dad is a nice thing to do, after all it couldn't be any worse than what Dick went through as a child with his father? But what is his motive with this???...it just can't end well.

I thought the African comment was kind of out of place and hostile
I think she was commenting on the african americans living near her apartment But not sure why the UN would have anything to do with more african american people being in the area other than it's the UN

@Amybett: I'll have to watch again to see if the living room is redone and Don's comment about the decorator. I swear he said something about already paying the decorator...

Don's motive, I believe, for taking Betty's dad in was two-fold. One: to look like a hero in Betty's eyes and two: to make Betty understand how sick he is.

And three: to piss off the brother!

Thanks for the "insects" /cockroaches interpretation. Obv correct. MamboDeb is right with her musings that Rebecca Pryce-excellently portrayed by Embeth Davidtz-cd in fact, be South African. And this fact cd be some kind of political-race-nationality thang foreshadowed by the writers ?! Brilliant.

Welcome back RMG: we missed you.

I'm trying to recall it, but I cannot: when Peggy took a bite of that hamburger, did the guy say s'thing like "that's cute"?! He saw it as some kind of foreplay/ was she just ravenous 'cause she's a self-proclaimed"good-drinker"/ was she just trying to make s'thing happen/trying to help him hurry and finish it so they cd get the heck outta there?! She was hot-to-trot, somuch that I thought it was COOL. She was in charge during that entire sequence. LOVE Peggy. Actually,
in real life-whatever that is- Elisabeth Moss is very good-looking. We all know her ears are not her greatest feature, but who's are? She is fab in "Speed the Plow." And she is a huge intellectual and very charming and witty and fashionable.

Darn, we have to wait a whole 'nother week to watch our fav show.

@ LILY OEI: I think I met you mom "S." here in town and she was in the process of moving her horse farm here. Not to divulge info that is not mine to do so, please respond via gmail; if you are an AMC staffer, you obv have access.
Thanks.

MADtini, THANK YOU!!! I have been searching all morning trying to find the Ray Bans Caravans with the same ear pieces that Don's had. I figured that they were vintage and no longer made but, it was the first time I couldn't find what I was looking for on eBay!

I gotta get me some of those...

Has anyone talked about the significance of shoes/barefeet over the last two epis? Epi 1 Don specficially tells stewardess to get her shoes before they leave hotel. Sal and Bellman are in their shoes (very specific camera shot) during their encounter. Epi.1 - I believe Don gets into bed w/Betty and Sally w/shoes on. Epi. 2 - teacher in barefeet at Maypole dance. Do shoes on mean repression - barefeet = freedom?

Dry Manhattan: "Roger is quickly becoming one of those men for whom sexual harassment laws were written."
ABSOLUTELY!!

" I think if I were Betty, and Roger had said that ("Grace Kelly swallowed a basketball"), I would have had a much stronger reaction."

That's your 2009 reaction. Women put up with that stuff from men all the time then. Betty just proves she has more class than Roger. One of the things I love best about Mad Men is its ability to show us both how far we've progressed and how little we've progressed in 45 yrs.

As one of the first beneficiaries of both Title IX and EEOC, until Mad Men's first season, I had forgotten just how it used to be. Helps put things in perspective.

As for the superstitious predictions out in the office, that's part of the behavior expected of women of the time: all beauty, no brains, just silly little creatures awash in fantasy and superstition. It was part of the stereotype, and I suspect, fully expected and accepted.

Good observations on your part, though.

60'schild I remember Tab glasses from the 70's that were hour glass shaped.

Mambo Deb I was thinking the same thing about the rooms. What room was Gene in and when did they get bunk beds? I did like the scene where Don pulls William into his office (at the bottom of the stairs) and then walks out into the kitchen... it sort of put the downstairs into perspective for me but, man that house is confusing! I need to get out your floorplan again.

Whoa, wait - someone has done a floor plan of Don's house? Cool! Reminds me of when the floor plan was released for Rob and Laura Petrie's house...

My cat just disappeared my entire post. I will apologize in advance if it appears again after I try to retype it!

Lots to hate about Bets in this episode. She's redecorating with antiques and I bet she only wants Daddy to live with them to avoid letting Brother get their parents house and its contents. She already covets the jardinniere which the sister-in-law had to apologize for taking. If it was Roseville pottery from the Depression era, it's gorgeous and worth quite a bit. Also, whichever poster above mentioned siblings trying to be the favored child in "who gets the folks" battles got it right. She's regretting it already by the end of the episode.

She sure seems to have abandoned the "we make a good team" attitude to helping Don socialize with business people. She's acting like a spoiled brat, complaining about having to wait in the office and dine with the Pryces, and her conversation is anything but witty. She changes the subject to her father as soon and they're in the car, then guilts Don with all that "don't forget, I'm pregnant, she's really kicking" stuff.

What the hell does that woman DO all day? And where's Carla? I never see anyone doing laundry, running a vac, cleaning the bathroom, ironing, sewing, or even dusting! She seems to spend all her time drinking and smoking and sitting around. My mother always had some work going while she talked to my dad. Also, nobody plays with those poor kids. Dressing a doll, throwing a ball, SOMETHING! It just gives me the creeps.

Everyone called condoms Trojans back then, like Kleenex and Band-Aids-- household words. The brand name Coke was like that for a while, but Pepsi and RC fought back.

My senior class was assigned an outdoor smoking court at my high school in 1969. Supposed to eliminate smoking in the bathrooms. The teachers' lounge belched smoke into the hallways whenever anyone went in or out.

Peggy didn't have intercourse with the student. Probably didn't even know about oral sex, so my guess is he got a hand-job. She still had on her underpants when she woke up, and she doesn't seem like the type to read the Kama Sutra.

What's with Don and Betty disagreeing on how long they've been married??

I think the traditional folk music we've been hearing is Don referencing some old flame, perhaps his "first" and that we'll see there's a connection to "My Old Kentucky Home" in a future eppy. The maypole dancing teacher will be featured in a soft drink ad, but his ideas usually come from his own life experiences, yes? The Irish/Scottish music swells very noticeably while he's fondling the "green green grass of home".

.....bipolar.....Actually, one of the first rants I can remember when I came here, Episode 1, Season 1, was how little things HAD changed in terms of sex in the workplace. In some ways, Mad Men is actually WHITEWASHING the issue! And that's saying a LOT!

The expectation in many cases, regardless of your hard work, skill or intellect, is still one of "sexual receptivity," whether or not you're a person who indulges. Being perceived as "playful" is a factor in being successful, at least in some companies, still.

If you're young, female and have any kind of looks at all, you can bet you're going to get "hit on."

Bearing in mind that companies CAN be different that way, in fact, the company with which I worked the longest (and hardest), there were only a couple of executives (married or single, didn't matter) who did NOT make a pass at me, and there was PLENTY of rampant sex going on behind closed doors. Again, the executives were the worst about "being above all the rules of man and God."

Some of the hard-to-believe stories would knock your socks off!

I haven't heard many women here talk about this, at least in modern-day terms, but would be very interested in hearing others' stories, if they're out there.

The laws are there, and the chatter above ground is new-and-improved, but the subtext is the same.

fifty-two - I don't think Betty's desire to have her father in her home is totally selfish, like she wants to get his house and money. I think she's reeling from the sight of her only surviving parent obviously altered by his strokes and nearing the end of his life. She was hit hard by the death of her mother (shortly before the series began, in 1959 maybe), and she wants to hold onto her dad as long as possible. She seemed happy to give her brother charge of the house; she just wants charge of her dad. Though, she doesn't know what she's in for....

As for Don and Betty giving different answers for how long they've been together, it's been made clear that Betty was pregnant with Sally before they married. One of them is saying how long they've been married, one is saying how long they've "been together".

Re: Rebecca Pryce (and the Brit pack)

Insects do refer, unfortunately, to cockroaches. It's New York City, and garbage disposals are generally not part of the infrastructure of older, classic apartments like the type they would likely be living in around Sutton Place (a grand old neighborhood near the UN). Relative cleanliness notwithstanding, the roaches are persistent buggers especially in older buildings. Her comments regarding "Africans" would not be directed at African-Americans, but African or Caribbean/South American Nationals who would be connected to the consulates or jobs at the UN (per the likely population distribution in the city at the time). Rebecca's comment could be racist (or class-ist, or rather post-Empirical/Colonial--much more of a preoccupation for Brits than Americans than race is per se). I think it's open to individual interpretation.

Pryce and the other Brits are outsiders and are being represented as such. We don't see them much, but what we do see is somewhat negative. The viewer is seeing them much the way staff at SC see them. If you remember that great quote (paraphrased), "Britain and America, two great nations separated by the same language." Well, that is what we're seeing. Personally, I think this growing culture clash to be a fascinating addit