Burt Peterson: “Fellow comrades in mediocrity, I want you to listen very carefully. You can all go straight to hell.”

Don didn't take long to prove me right!

Don didn't take long to prove me right!

Wow, that hour went by fast!

So, are they firing Don next week?

It Got so hot in Sal's room that it set off the fire alarm. Well the cat is out of the bag, Sal's wildest dreams are coming true. Now, he is officially on the Down Low. Don let Sal know very nicely he's aware of his little secret, but don't make it obvious he said in a manner of words. JUICY!

I wouln'd be surprised. Let him open his own agency, and jettison everyone at SC or whatever they're calling it now.

That was GREAT.

Ok during the flashback in the beginning and Don with the milk on the stove, at the end, when it's reduced and he scoops it out....what it looks like, not a coincidence

Suitcase, Sally hammering it. Remember she was tossed in the closet after smoking, saying his suitcase is there plus the other obvious symbollism of Don being gone.

Don's pillow talk with Betty, about the beach etc making her feel good, she says something like you can talk anyone into anything, like she's said before in a negative way. Except now she likes it of course.

I loved that Cooper was still into the art, and his Rothko from last year is still there.

The girls call Mr. Hooker, "John".

Hollis still on the elevator.

Stewardess said something about people thinking she's a model, Betty modeled.

Did you catch that Sal and Don are "Words and Pictures", just like Kurt and Smitty last year when SC decided to try that kind of direction?

Cosgrove got "The Relaxasizor" (sp), if you remember that little product from season 1....

Don to Sal: "limit your exposure". So classic Don.

And I thought this was interesting, near the very end, Pete comes to Don, just like he did in the finale last year when Don says basically he believed Pete could handle it so Pete tells him about the merger. It was close to the same thing, till Pete sees Don is not alone and then clams up. I thought that was great, so congruous with last year..

I can't believe the hour went that fast.

Don didn't fail me in catting around. Sal - poor man having to take the fire escape with...well...while in the "moment".

The flashbacks - interesting and near the end when Don kind of freezes up when telling Sally about when she was born...

I'm not sure Don knows where he's going.

What about the promo? Is Don losing his job or the London Fog campaign? Hmm....

Wasn't that a bit out of character for Betty to refer to the daughter when she breaks Don't bag as her "taking to his tools like a little lesbian." That's a very modern reference: lesbians w/toolbelts. I've only heard that in the last 10/15 years.
And number 2-Did they have Stolichnaya vodka in NY or in the USA in 1963? I only seem to remember it from the 80s. Thoughts?

Wasn't that a bit out of character for Betty to refer to the daughter when she breaks Don't bag as her "taking to his tools like a little lesbian." That's a very modern reference: lesbians w/toolbelts. I've only heard that in the last 10/15 years.
And number 2-Did they have Stolichnaya vodka in NY or in the USA in 1963? I only seem to remember it from the 80s. Thoughts?

Incredible. Interesting that Don makes it a point to not bring up Sal's situation on the plane. Just like with Freddy, he's not one to bring someone down or destroy a man's name.

One question, where was Duck?!

Poor Sal, ewwwwwwwww, dont wanna see that

Soooo happy Mad Men is back! I have been waiting for it all year!

Of course Betty goes back ti Don like nothing has happened! That's soo Betty! Yet if you watch she still knows something is up and just putting to the side when Sally finds that pin from the stewardess.

Finally, Sal gets caught in the act!Love Don's "limit the exposure" comment. So subtle. Sal is soo coming out this season at the office. I wonder what will happen?

What was the song that played at the end of the episode.

Someone from overseas sent the vodka, I thought...

Sally breaking the lock on that valise has Freudian implications -- remember when Betty kept dreaming of a suitcase? and it turns out she was pregnant? My guess is Sally's not too thrilled with the fact that baby will make 4. Hence the freudian implcations of the broken lock on the suitcase Don was using.

That hooker either died of childbed fever ....or that "midwife" perfomed a late term abortion and the hooker died of septicemia.

Hey Greg, the milk skimming caught my eye as well. A subtle reference to Don perhaps being of Jewish heritage?

Doubt Don is being fired, too inegral to the show. I think it is going to be an internal management thing.

Stoly was not sold in the US nor were cuban cigars, they cam from Greece illegally (did you note the hash reference)

I think that Don just made a fiercly loyal ally in Sal by making sure to let him know that his "secret" is safe.

Going to be a big big year.

I agree the lesbian reference was a little strong, but on the otherhand Betty doesn;t understand her daughter in the least. If the show lasts 4 or 5 more seasons the teenage years will be great fodder for story. Given Sally will be hitting puberty around the summer of love.

I like that Ken smokes Marlboros instead of those nasty Lucky Strikes.

I was surprised Trudy has returned and is again the loving wife.

Poor Sal. Right after "oh God" the fire alarm goes off.

I am watching it a second time. More later.

Betty is 9 months along. So that means the timeline for season 3 begins in 1963? No historical upsets yet? Weiner had said season 3 would start after the Kennedy assasination. Now, I am confused.

The scalded milk developed a peel which Don was skimming off. There was no reduction, I believe.

How does Betty know her baby is a girl?

I agree that Betty saying "taking to his tools like a little lesbian" was not not in keeping with 1962- 63 lingo.

Don is so quick it makes your head spin. "Are these wings for me Daddy"? "Why of course Sally". He never missed a beat. My gawd how I love to hate this man.....;)

Why do you think Don paused while talking about the day that Sally was born? Do you think that Don will see the flight attendat again?

WOW! Not disappointed in the least by the opening night! Bravo!

Loved the way the writers went "head-first" ( so to speak ) into Sal's sexuality issues and the scene with the bellhop was VERY hot... it all started in the elevator, didn't it? I loved the way Don handled it all on the flight back to NYC with Sal.... he was telling him that he was safe but also to watch his back and be discreet with his gay love life...

Was that a set of American Airlines "wings" that the daughter found in her Dad's luggage? I thought that Don ( John ) was so effective in portrayal of his sudden realization of how he had f*cked up by messing around on his wife during the trip to Baltimore...as he tried to tell the daughter about the night she was born...

Wonderful start to Season Three, everyone!

BRAVO!

Total idiots at AMC!

How could the executives at AMC let this stript air?

You cannot show show two men passionately kissing and then one of them going down the shorts of another and have a hit show!!!

Someone needs to tell the execs that 95% of America does not want to see that!

Roger Steeling had it right when he said pitting Ken and Pete against one another was a "dumb idea". Stupid!!

Take this weeks audience number and divide it by 10 and you will have next weeks viewership!!

PS They had no trouble showing two men kissing but did not have the courage to call lesbians "dykes" like they were called in 1963.

New York being an international city and SC having a British connection, I'm sure they could get many things not normally available.

This episode went too quickly! I liked the brief comments at the end of the show about changes that are coming, and that people usually have difficulty with change. I didn't care for the British male assistant.

is Duck done?

the math for Betty's baby is as follows.

she told Don in Oct '62

Betty could have been 1 to 2 mos preg. therefore she conceived in late aug or early sept.

This makes the baby due in June.

Whe may be only 8 months the bumb isn't that big. So this would be late april early may. (I am guessing april besause they are all still wearing coats and wool.

Over the next 12 weeks the season could easily end prior to nov '63 thereby avoiding the assaination.

New York being an international city and SC having a British connection, I'm sure they could get many things not normally available.

Umm...why does it take courage to call lesbians "dykes"? It can be derogatory if used incorrectly. It looks like Peggy is having trouble being taken seriously by Joan, but Joan played her hand like a card shark when she left the British secretary out to dry. It was great!

Betty was a few months pregnant last season , in Autmn of 1962 (Cuban missle crisis). It could be late April now -- it can get hot here on the East Coast.

Kennedy assasination was Nov. 22 1963. Martin Luther King's March on Washington was august 1963. Beatles ddin't land here until Feb. 1964.

Oh that the off-seasons should go by as fast as the Mad Men episodes' time! Fastest show on TV!

Well, the "whore child" is born.... what a crappy way to get your name (Dick)!

...and Don back to his same old shenanigans....and Sal has a hot date....well, kinda....

Fire Alarm! So funny!

Love it that Pete has a new back to stab (Ken)!

Watch out Ken....get some armor!

Richard Harris' son has the exact same voice as his dad.....sounds like King Arthur (Camelot/movie) (sorry, I'm pre-Harry Potter!)

So glad we're now in the new Season!

Wonder how Pete and Trudy got back so lovey dovey? Far cry from when we saw them last in S2.....still no hint as to any baby for those two. I guess Trudy is diving into her "work with the Met" to distract herself from her longings.

Bogielgt: The scene made me uncomfortable, but I seriously doubt that viewership will go down because of it.

I kind of think this episode went pretty much the way people expected it to and will twist down the line...

What was the song at the end of the episode?

I feel stupid for askinbg this butttt..what was the ink comment about in the steamy sal bedroom scene?

And did everyone forget Don's birthday? Et tu, Sally???

bodielgt - you had your say, God bless America. Now I will have my say.

There is a warning before the show that describes it for mature audiences. So, you can easily switch it off or opt to be more mature for an hour. I never heard anyone use the word you mentioned in those days. Polite talk was the norm in public and/or in front of women, then, I believe.

Quote from above : "You cannot show show two men passionately kissing and then one of them going down the shorts of another and have a hit show!!!"

OH GIVE me a break! This is 2009 and WHo do you think is watching this ?? ,,,just Old farts in Texas from the GOP?

I haven't been here since the end of last season and I forgot my screen name. I was really looking forward to the first episode but was a bit disappointed. That Don would hop into bed with a stewardess after the way things ended last season. Just seems too tawdry. Was hoping for something more "interesting" from a great character like Don.. some sort of soul searching or something. Also thought the lesbian comment by Betty did not fit with the times. Also felt the Sal gay scene was over the top. Didn't care for the dick references in the beginning--talk about cutting off Don's father's and how the baby came to be named Dick. Mad Men has better writers than that! But it was good to see all the characters so I will give it another try next week. I give the episode a grade of C.

Well, at least we know this episode will be talked about at the water cooler tomorrow.

Does Don's hair seem different this season? It looked like it was parted a bit differently and down more on his face (not just in the hotel scene...)

I find it hard to believe that someone as ignorant as bldieglt who claims that "95% of America doesn't want to see this " in reference to Sal's love scene, has the capability to appreciate or understand this show. Get a clue, grow up and wise up.

SallyD- I think it was Dick's birthday, not Don's. That's why the drivers licence wouldn't help. :)

Thanks SallyD for the timeline in 1963-4. Just makes anticipation that much more exciting.

Don's or Dick's birthday?

Peggy and Joan - Peggy seems to want to be Joan's new best friend and Joan is reluctant? Why, I wonder.

Don and the Betty clone - he just can't help himself...!

The British Invasion in the office will liven things up. And show a huge contrast between the way they do business across the pond and Sterling Cooper's traditional ways. I love Bert's big sighs...

What happened to Duck Phillips?

Why would Don be let go in the next episode? Obviously a big concession was made in Duck's new vision of SC. Last season Don revealed that he had no contract (and lots of money from the buyout) and would not work at the company Duck envisioned. Someone wanted Don more than Duck it seems so why get now chuck him overboard?

Then again, there's alot of character stories yet to be revealed.

1. What did the mid-wife say to the woman in the white nightgown after she said the baby's name was Dick?

2. Could Pete be any more whiny and annoying? Trudy should stop wishing for a child, 'cause she has one right there in big baby Pete. I loved watching Ken's reaction to his promotion. Glad to see all our boys are still at Sterling Cooper.

3. Can't tell if Joan is married or not, but she looks great. Loved watching her deal with "Moneypenny". What a little worm.

4. Is Jane in Greece? Cooper made some disgusted sounding reference to Roger unpacking yet another carton from Greece when Roger was late for the meeting.

Any flight attendants from '63 on this blog? My mother was a stewardess in 1954-55 and says no way would they be drinking in uniform. She said they carried sweaters to hide their sleeves. It would cost your job.

I wish the Sal scene had been more covert and keeping with the times-then again, it was his hotel room, pretty covert. The word, "lesbian", sort of catapulted me back to modern times. Just seems more of a modern term.
I thought it sort of slipped a bit, still good, hope it doesn't trip up under hype.

On second vewing:

this wa sstill great.

London Fog wasn't the product name, but the theme of the new Sterling Cooper. kicking myself for not catching that the first time

Is the guy who gives both Pete and Ken the job.. in Don's office?

This is twice now Pete has been promised a promotion, yat it's screwed up. I'm still waiting for him to snap.

It makes more sense watching the immediate repeat, but watching Don and Sal as the two guys working over the girls:
They're going good, yet one is not exactly into it for the long-run. But, I love the effort Sal gives anyway, kinda like taking one for the team. Not the first wingman you'd choose but you have to love the effort. Great use of the advertising skills to pull his responsibility as the wingman.

What a huge disappointment. I thought the whole opening with the reasoning behind Don's name was totally unbelievable and frankly, stupid. I thought I could set that aside and I was ready for the intensity and cleverness of plot line to come, and then Don falls into the arms of some cheap, dumb floosey. I watched the last episode of S2 and after the whole big cathartic scene, he's in bed with some tramp (at least all the other ones in S1 and S2 had something going for them - brains, power, etc) but no... just a tawdry affair a few months after returning. It was like a lousy day time soap. Don's conflict was so deep and mysterious, his affairs were intense enough that we could understand the draw, but this dumb chick? Why didn't he dismiss her like Jane or the other shallow airheads he has dismissed in the past? So now, after a really long drawn out and emotional catharsis, he's just fooling around with any old cheap broad who throws herself at him. Pretty weak turn of events.

The Sal scenes were good (the acting perhaps more than story line), but Don doesn't care about the revelation, so it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The Pete vs. Ken thing is mildly interesting on a psychological level, but not terribly exciting. I was right that Peggy's confession/rejection would make Pete give it a go with Trudy, but no explanation of Duck's disappearance? The elevator scene could have tied that up.

Peggy trying to get Joan to whine about office BS after Joan is dismissive of it several times? I don't think so. What - are there all new writers who never watched the show much before?

The ending? Well gee... same old same old but without the feeling - Don torn between wanting to be a family man and running around. Only cheaper and more shallow this time. When pics were leaked with the stewardess in the hotel with Don, I was sure they were decoy to subvert spoilers. I was determined to believe Don and the show wouldn't turn down some predictable, tawdry, same-old-same-old road with no good boy then fiery build up to some seemingly meaningful romance that really tears him up inside. I was worried that all the talk about the new season being "faster paced" would mean the story would be cheapened. As Bert Cooper would say "and there you have it."

SallyD - I wouln'd be surprised. Let him open his own agency, and jettison everyone at SC or whatever they're calling it now.

I'm sure Don has a contract now. The new firm wouldn't let him stay without one, especially after the scene with Duck.

Millions of additional people tuned in tonight to "see what all the fuss is about".

I am sorry that I am speaking in the real world here when I say a huge percentage of America is still homophoebic.

That scene will not turn off the origianl fans of the series like myself, but I guuarantee you that it will be a big topic in the news tomorrow and it will not be positive for the show.

I love this show and do not want it taken off the air due to low viewership, which it has had up until this point.

You said it Jamblermm, everyone has the right to turn it off. I am just afraid that your point will be made very true, and our great show will go away.

Jamblermm,

I don't think Betty is 9 mos. along - when Sally looked at Betty's stomach asked her if she had really been in "there" before she was born, Betty replied, "Yes, 9 months."

Well, it was quite an episode. The new Bobby looks about 3 years older than the other little boy - Betty still has an attitude with him.

The opening scene was fascinating. I think Sal is going to become an active gay man - now he realizes Don "knows" and didn't find it worth mentioning, Sal will be off to the races.

This site is still as slow as molasses.

Yes, Don's hair was different - I think he used less Brylcreem on it and it seems a bit shorter. I like it.

Are they going to let Joan quit? I hope not.

How can Don have flashbacks of his birth or his mother ? That part rings very false. He never knew his mother because she died during childbirth. How can he "remember" any of those scenes ? The only explanation is that he's imagining them in the way he wants or in the way it's been told to him. But by whom ?

I totally agree that Betty's comment about Sally using the tools is extremely odd and strikes as false and trying just a bit too hard with the writing. Sometimes they try to cram in too many references or un-pc comments. Most of them work but this one seemed really off.

Episode didn't fail to disappoint.Don is still catting around,no news there. He sure can think quick on his feet.When Sally found the TWA stickpin in his luggage he had quick answer for her.

I love this show,but for some reason the pacing seemed faster not like S1 and 2.There was more humor but some of the jokes and delivery seemed forced.

I noticed Don didn't have a ton of brylcream in his hair and in the street scenes and elevators men were not wearing their hats.

Betty's lesbian comment about Sally didn't seem in context with the time period.(1963)

People I hope to see in future episodes are Freddy Rumson and Bobbie and Jimmy Barret.

Not surprised about Sal's outing. Now he'll feel even more conflicted being married to Kitty and playing the charade.

I'm not fond of either of the Brit's and especially the snippy assistant.I figure he and Joan are going to butt heads and it will be a real blowout.Can't wait till next week!

Timezuchangin, I agree with the lesbian comment but the stoli was a gift to cooper from someone in Greece. Which is why he so protective of it when pete walks in.

Everyone still wants a London Fog raincoat today!! Even in southern California. Don said that there was a company that just made hats. Will it go out of business soon as men and women stop wearing them?

MsFabulous: While I disagree with some of what you said, I can agree that this episode did not require much thought, nor was anything unexpected.

I'm afraid that the English taking over will make for a dull story...

But Don with another woman? Oh, I knew that would happen.

What's with the beginning? Was that baby Don?

I lost AMC in my cable package. When will episode one air in its entirety?

I believe Don's father hammered his origins into him many, many times. Some of Don's memories are fantasy, some are true.

Fancy Pants: It just did, an hour ago.

When my ex wife was pergnant with our first child I was instructed at Lamazze to soothe her by telling her "she was on the beach everything was all right the sand was cool etc," Did Don Draper invent Lamazze I do not think it was around in 63.also is there a new kid playing Bobby

hey gang if the board is slowww for you like it is for a lot of us you can head to

http://madmenblog.blogspot.com/

(not sure if that last slash is necessary)

free public blogspot blog I did, you don't have to register or any of that. If you get clogged up here for the time being, post there. I put up the first two posts which are just my posts above to get it started. If this site is still slow or overrun head over there for the time being.

hobocode: Lamaze wasn't around, but the Bradley method was. Pretty much the same thing.

Zabadu-sorry my post wasn't clear. When will episode one be streamed on AMCTV.com in its entirety?

Bodielgt: Did you know the movie "Brokeback Mountain" by Ang Lee was about two men in love with each other and that it won an academy award? My feeling is that the "Mad Men" audience is very intelligent and can handle reality.

Anybody know what happened to Duck Phillips? Or are we left to conclude that after his outburst end of last season that they fired him?

Zerelda:

1. What did the mid-wife say to the woman in the white nightgown after she said the baby's name was Dick?

"His name is Dick, after a wish his mother should have lived to see".

2. Could Pete be any more whiny and annoying? Trudy should stop wishing for a child, 'cause she has one right there in big baby Pete. I loved watching Ken's reaction to his promotion. Glad to see all our boys are still at Sterling Cooper.

Yep, Pete wants what he wants when he wants it. Obviously didn't take Don's advice.

3. Can't tell if Joan is married or not, but she looks great. Loved watching her deal with "Moneypenny". What a little worm.

I think she is. Peggy's already commented on her ring once, now she's commenting that it's bigger or showier (being afraid of wearing it on the subway). I think we may find out soon.

4. Is Jane in Greece? Cooper made some disgusted sounding reference to Roger unpacking yet another carton from Greece when Roger was late for the meeting.

I think it may reference that Jane is spending a bunch of Roger's money, but then he had stuff sent from friends overseas, so who knows...

chopin47,
thanks for correcting me about Betty being 9 months along. She looks like she could be at least 7/8 months though.

I will view again and discuss the show with my family - I really enjoyed the episode and I think it set up a lot of conflicts and mysteries. I want to quote from an article in Entertainment Weekly so will come back and post it in a day or two.

I agree with MsFabulous. The writing on this show has been rapier sharp week after week, and I was so disappointed with the entire show tonight. What were the big surprises I kept hearing about? Certainly, it wasn't the scene with Sal in the hotel room. This show has always been so classy with the "less is more" attitude in the steam department, and this was overly gratuitous in my taste. Along with the "lesbian" comment, it seemed as if they were desperately trying to placate one particular demographic. It was so affected throughout, except for the clever London Fog ad that Don pitched to Sal with the underlying message. Even Don's hair threw me a bit-he looked so suave and urbane before and tonight he looked a bit unsure of himself and disheveled. And for him to abandon so quickly his promise to be faithful with that flaky stewardess was laughable. He seemed completely bored by the encounter. To my chagrin, Don Draper looked and played the fool tonight.

Sorry etienne, I do not know the name of the song at the end of the show, but it is a very nice song indeed. Sounds like a Irish folk song.

Too bad it was the highlight of the show.

FancyPants,
"I lost AMC in my cable pkg" If you mean you are not subscribing to the larger pkg containing AmC (it is not in the basic cable pkg nor on the 1st tier of the Direct TV, Dish Network, etc providers). It is a shame that you have to pay more to get AMC, which should be on basic cable. There is a large segment of our population that will never see Mad Men because of that.

Question: Has anyone seen promos for MM on other channels? I have seen them on CMT (country music ) of all places!

Thanks, Zabadu. I really enjoyed tonight's episode, but I don't how much of the enjoyment was for the actual episode and how much was for the fact that Mad Men was finally back for me to watch.

I loved that the Sterling Cooper folks were calling the male secretary "Moneypenny". I'm glad he did not get to keep the office Joan found for him. I am also kind of liking the Englishman, Lane Pryce. Not sure if that will continue, but he seems like he is reading the Sterling Cooper folks pretty well.

Bert Cooper seems to have already begun to regret the sale to Putnam, Powell and Lowell.

Finally, I really like the name of the episode, "London Fog". It fit in more ways than one, as Greg said in his post above.

madmanfan4ever: He sure can think quick on his feet.When Sally found the TWA stickpin in his luggage he had quick answer for her.

Right, Sally said, "Is this for me?" and Don said "Yes." What stunning, immediate cleverness. God, How I'd love to be that quick on my feet.

Dear wasthere,

I cried at the end of that movie.

I did not win the Academy award.

The Academy did not have the courage to make that movie, "Best Picture" although it was by far the best movie made that year.

The writers could have showed the men kissing briefly and the scene would have been more palliative to a wide American audience.

They just "shocked" themselves out of picking up ratings. That is my point!!! That's all.

Correction-

It did not win the Academy award......

I did not either......

bodielgt, Brokeback Mountain won 3 Academy awards: Best Director (Ang Lee), Best Adapted Screenplay (Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana), Best Original Score (Gustavo Santaolalla)

Wasn't Bert Cooper always a non-drinker in S1 and S2?

I noticed the exchange of surprised looks between Don and Roger when he asked for a glass of brandy tonight.

Well, ol' Bert might end up being one of the best drinkers at SC!

Greg, you said "Ok during the flashback in the beginning and Don with the milk on the stove, at the end, when it's reduced and he scoops it out....what it looks like, not a coincidence"

Good to know someone else had a dirty enough mind to recognize the imagery...come on people! (pun intended). In a way, it's kind of a symbol of life...life begins in a tablespoon of semen, if you think about it. Also, it represents men spreading their seed and not taking full responsibilty for their actions, or at least not as much as women had to at that time period (men are much more present, hands-on fathers and husbands now than in the 60's.) Don can be somewhat of a sperm donor and leave Betty at home with the kids while he cavorts with a stewardess. He's kind of become obsessed with sowing his oats...

I kind of like Lane Pryce/Jared Harris, too, z....love his voice....sounds just like his dad (Richard Harris/King Arthur) he seems as good or better an actor, as well.

I love the way he set Ken and Pete up for conflict....that should be fun to watch all season. Loved that look on Pete's face as Ken wrote down all his half of the accounts....a cross between hatred and disbelief....VK is probably the best actor on MM....but, that would be hard to say, all of them being so fantastic. And wasn't his little victory dance utterly sickening? Go Pete!

Lovin' Miss Joanie as always....I hope she does NOT leave SC! Couldn't take that....

I thought Peggy seemed like a completely different character in this season...her dialogue and demeanor seem totally off-base. It was weird. I thought Elizabeth Moss' delivery also left something to be desired. It seems like even she was having trouble finding Peggy.

I highly doubt the kissing scene between Sal and the bellhop will get rid of -that- many viewers. Mad Men isn't your average prime-time show, it caters to a different crowd. It's true that some people may not tune in again because of it, but again, I doubt that many. I admit I found the scene refreshing. I'm not a gay male, but I was pleased to see how they took the scene seriously, visually treating it not unlike the heterosexual scenes we witness. It was a hot scene, and it's about time we see more of them.

Yes, I quite hope that Joanie remains in some form or another. Christina Hendricks is too wonderful to be taken from the show now. Joanie's story is so heartbreaking.

Also, I kind of hope Pete wins the position.

I had Lamaze training in 1962 in St. Louis. It had been around New York by then for some time.

I just read an interview with Matt that says that Jane and Roger are now married and returned from Greece on their honeymoon. He also said that Joan is married and we'll "see where she is" soon....

Since I suspect the audience for this show isn't homophobia from the heartland I doubt if many viewers have been lost because of a little kissy-face and undie exploration between members of the same sex.

I did think though that the way Don discovered Sal's secret was a little contrived. Yes I did miss learning what happened to Duck(Duc?) and wish they'd been clearer about exactly what time of the year it was. Also I thought the lovey relationship of Pete and Trudy was jarring after how they were left last season. In fact there were some glaring continuity problems with this episode that made it feel that last-minute editing was done to patch up more than a few items.

Still exciting though! And yes, what WAS that closing music?

does anyone know the song from the "previously on Mad Men" part. It seemed very much like another RJD2 song but I can;t tell what song it is.

So much to take in. Here’s a smattering…

I liked…

Don’s tender treatment of Betty at the beginning of the ep. I’d love to have Don rub my belly and whisper a sweet fantasy into my ear in that gruff voice. Yowza!

Pete and Trudy’s little exchange after his “promotion”. I am glad to see those two happy together after everything.

Things that irritated me…

Damn slutty Don and the stewardess. I don’t care if it’s his birthday – “Dick” needs to keep to himself!

Pete acting like Pouty McPouty-face. What a brat!

Things that made me shriek out loud…

Sal and the bellboy – I never thought it would happen this quick, and when it got ruined by the fire alarm and Don saw… Yikes!

Things that made me tear up…

Sally’s reason for breaking the lock on the suitcase, and Don’s answer.

As for the stir the Sal/bellboy scene may cause...

Don has had many a steamy scene of heterosexual sex over the last 2 years (often extramarital) and the only criticism he gets is that he's cheating on his wife. Why should it be any different for Sal just because he was with a guy?

I think it was handled well, and I'm glad Don didn't try to shame Sal afterward.

This was a sloppy episode, especially to kick off the third season. It seemed intentionally cute, and lacked the tone and weight of seasons one and two. Winning so many awards and all these rolling accolades might have actually ruined what was special about it. Something was missing, and I can't tell what it was, but it didn't feel the same. It was like the show jumped over to a major network, and all the subtleties/details were overlooked. Are they dumbing it down for a broader appeal? This scares me. I waited all Summer for THAT?!

I'm really disappointed, and it's not the old fashioned I drank during the Premiere season show tonight. Something hits me all wrong about the way this season has opened. It's like, the MAD MEN magic disappeared somewhere. Perhaps it's the new characterers that are skulking around SC, but it's something more than that, and I can't quite put my finger on it.

The night belonged to Salvatore-if Sal hadn't had his story in it tonight, the entire episode would've bellyflopped. I wanted to stand up and cheer when the bellhop kissed Salvatore! It was like, after 2 seasons of Sal repressing his sexuality, he could let the damn loose (pun intended!) Seriously. I have to agree with one of my fellow maddicts: after all these amazing women Don has chased, and he settles in for a cheap, ridiculous blonde, who talked WAY too much. Don HATES talking when sex is going to happen-remember when he castigated Bobby for talking, when it was leading up to the act? In fact, he flipped out on her, tied her up, and left her, which was all started by her 'motor mouth' commentary, when they were about to hit it.
Don's been with some exceptional women, and he settles on that dumb broad? Really? It was incredibly anti-climatic tonight, and something's changed in the tenor of the.....writing? The acting?...The directing?....something isn't right. I admit, there are new players at SC, but something in the quality of the show tonight felt different. I didn't like it one bit, and it's bugging the hell out of me.

Where was the magic of the first 2 seasons tonight? Did anyone else sense that something was just so different, it was unsettling, and not in a good way? Has Matt Weiner lost his touch? I feel like it was perhaps the writing, but I'm not sure. I had this SAME feeling, when the X-Files shifted in Season 6, and from then on out, it became nearly unwatchable. It wasn't the same show, and now matter what they tried to do, the show could never recapture the same magic of the previous seasons.....perhaps it's too early in the season, but I don't know.

What are your thoughts on what I've said?

Did anyone else notice Lane's awkwardness when Pete mentioned something about lane's wife being back in England?

It made me wonder if Lane has a wife at all and whether Hooker, aka 'Money Penny' is Lane's gay partner.

Though I watched all of the first two seasons (thus I know Don's background and the Dick Whitman thing), I thought the scene at the beginning where Don was having flashbacks seemed clumsy, awkward and not very interesting. Also, if Betty was pregnant in 1962 (where season two left off), and it is now supposedly 1964, she would not STILL be pregnant! She would have had the baby at some point in 1963, even if she became pregnant at the end of 1962. I don't mean to split hairs here but come on. I have also always found the Draper children boring and detracting. The less they are seen, the better.

As for Don, he is now boring and very predictable; evidently he is unable to remain faithful to his wife even though she is carrying his third child (and he was caught cheating before, etc.). Also, Hamm looks tired and drawn, not nearly as attractive as he was in seasons one and two. They could almost do without his character.

The rivalry between Pete and Ken is much more interesting than Don's constant activity between the sheets. And while I like the character of Sal, I don't think it was any revelation that his character is gay, but I am not sure if I want to see too many more scenes such as the one in the hotel room between him and the bellhop. A little sex - gay or straight - goes a long way on the screen. I have a feeling he will stay married and we won't see him in too many trysts with the guys!

Peggy suddenly seemed willing to gossip a bit with Joan, something she refused to do in the first two seasons. Perhaps she is loosening up a bit. And why Pete does not seem to appreciate his wife is beyond me. Trudy is very attractive, well-spoken, a good dresser, and for whatever reason, seems to love and support her husband even though he has treated her a tad shabbily in the past, such as when she wanted to have a baby and he was not interested, etc.

To be honest, I don't like the British angle at all, or the characters/firm that took over at Sterling Cooper. There is nothing appealing or magnetic, or interesting about them.
Kind of like the Duck character from last season; he was not one of my favorites. As for the Robert Morse character, half the time I don't know what he's talking about! And Roger Sterling seems to have faded considerably from his once decadent image. Perhaps we will see more of it in subsequent episodes, but not this episode.

This episode dragged a little for me and I think the series has lost a bit of it's first year edge. Pete however, still seems to have that edge. Again, Don just seems one big bore at this point.

Belle-Jolie: I agree with much of what you stated here. Something was missing in this first episode of season three. I am so tired of Don spending most of his time between the sheets of women other than his wife! He has become very predictable and boring. His character actually had some great dialogue in Seasons one and two (especially season one) but he is now reduced to talking about "warm, sandy beaches" (are there cold, non-sandy beaches?), and looking a little bit shopworn. Hamm now seems to be calling in his performance and also looks tired and drawn. So different than season one. Granted, some time has passed but if the show lasts another couple of years, he should look especially weary by then at this rate!

As with many shows, the first couple of seasons are the most original and fresh and all the actors and actresses are really giving it their all. As the season progress, they probably get a little tired of their characters, and some of the magic begins to go out of their performances and the show itself.

What was that totally weird comment Betty made about her daughter using tools or something, and referring to her as a good little lesbian or something like that? Yes, I know it's the sixties (pre Women's Lib when it became ok for a girl to do "boys" things) but come on already! Referring to her daughter that way was, I thought, unnecessary, short-sighted, and rather nasty. Would she refer to her son as a "little fairy" if he liked to bake cookies? I always thought Betty was a bit off, even in season one.

Also, I don't think we need to see too many sex scenes with Sal and whomever. Had that fire alarm not rung, well, who knows what we might have been treated to! I have said it before, but sex - straight or gay - wears thin on the screen after a while and when it becomes too explicit, it loses the mystery and allure. Something should be left to the imagination and when the bellboy got to Sal's shorts, well again, glad that fire alarm sounded.

I think Pete (the actor who plays him) puts in more effort than some of the others at this point. Joan's character never seems to do more than act as though she is "better" than everyone else and is rather condescending, but that's about it. Peggy seems like the career woman who will give everything she has to her job and will eventually grow gray-haired and wrinkled, finally retiring with a gold watch and not much else, i.e., no husband, kids, or life. Her life already seems blah and one-dimensional, so different than it did (and that she did) especially in season one. Roger also seems to be calling in his performance, as does Robert Morse. Ken Cosgrove still has a spark. Those British gents are just plain dreary! Hope things pick up in the next few episodes.

Overall liked the ep, found the story of Dick/Don's birth interesting. The actress who played Shelly the stewardess in the ep was played by a friend of mine - and boy am I JEALOUS of her hotel room scene! Was a bit surprised about the scene in Sal's room - but this is cable afterall. Good to see Pete's got motivation for continuing his sneaky ways. And yet again Don has the loyalty of another co-worker, Sal, who just like Peggy has a secret. Season 3 - here we go!

Again (I posted this but it didn't seem to appear), I am not trying to split hairs here, but if Betty became pregnant in 1962 (at any time during that year), she would have given birth at some point in 1963; if this is supposed to be 1964 (my understanding is that Wiener was skipping over 1963), then Betty would realistically not still be pregnant in 1964! And yet, she is! Seems the baby would have already been on the scene and also, she talked about it being a girl. Ultrasound was not available in the sixties to my knowledge and there was no way you could know what the sex of your baby was going to be.

Also, I thought the final scene rather dropped off the screen with a thud. Betty and Don explaining to the boring Sally (I just wish the Draper kids were a bit more heard but unseen) the circumstances surrounding her birth, and then almost in mid-sentence the scene ends and the credits roll. The magic of the first two seasons was missing and I hope it returns. The first scene was clumsy and awkward too, the one with Don having a flashback. Enough of Don and his flashbacks. We know all about his past so there is no longer any mystery. And when the mystery us gone so is the intrigue, suspense, and basically, the interest.

So glad Mad Men is back for another season, but I agree with MsFabulous and Carrie1...the writing went downhill. This show is usually a stickler for portraying the time period accurately in style and language, but slipped up on some things tonight. It also felt a little choppy, with too many storylines going on at once. The flashback sequence was too contrived and too long.

I worked as a stewardess/flight attendant for "the friendly skies" in 1968 and we were never allowed to drink while in uniform and were not supposed to drink during the 12 hours preceding a flight. We had to wear our hats and gloves when we were in public. The girdle the stew wore was accurate. We had to wear them or would not be fitted for a uniform! At the training center we were taught the "correct" way to smoke cigarettes...a lady always rolls the ash off her cigarette, never taps it off. Our appearance counselor, Myra, told us that when a man pulled out his lighter to light our cigarette, we should hold his hand in both of ours and look into his eyes as we inhaled!

On layovers, the whole crew stayed at the same hotel. Pilots got their own rooms, but the stews had to double up and share a room. We didn't have supervisors or a senior stew watching over us while on layovers.

I really thought Don was going to resist the stewardess until he said, "It's my birthday." What I line! It made me laugh! Then, when he wants to watch her take her clothes off but won't take his off, I hoped again that his better self would win out. I was disappointed. It was all too easy and cheesy.

I didn't even recognize Peggy as Peggy in the scene with Joan waiting for the elevator. Peggy is not a gossip. It was completely out of character. Must have been a new writer there...who had not done their homework on the show.

I didn't buy Betty accepting the wings as the give-away ones airlines used to hand out to children. True, they were made of metal at that time and did have an actual pin on the back, but they said "junior stewardess" and were obviously not the real thing.

Joan was fabulous, as usual! Can't wait to see what's in store for her.

MsFabulous: I agree. Are these new writers who never bothered to watch the first two seasons? One would think so judging from the first episode of season three. The magic just was not there and suddenly Peggy is gossiping a bit with Joan (something her character would never have done previously). Trudy and Pete seem ok in their marriage (it seemed they were on the brink of divorce at the end of last season, i.e., she wanted a baby he was against it, etc.); Betty has apparently taken a happy pill and thought it is apparently 1964 (according to Weiner he was skipping 1963 entirely), she is still pregnant with a baby she conceived in 1962! And has Sal suddenly come to terms with his homosexuality? In Season One he nearly jumped out a window when another guy made advances. And Roger seems there as window decor. Those Brits are distracting and though they bought out SC, well, I never liked that story line at all. Is Duck still around? He was absent in this episode although I never thought he added much anyway.

As for Don, I think SC and the show would be better off without him. All he does these days is have those dreary flashbacks (yes, we all know he was really Dick Whitman - who cares at this point?). And whatever happened to Betty's therapist? Or the friend with whom she used to commiserate? Or the neighborhood divorcee with the creepy kid? The latter I can do without, by the way.

In my comment above, please make that "Betty has apparently taken a happy pill and THOUGH it is apparently 1964..."

Wait a second. Some where I read that it's actually supposed to be 1963. I thought Weiner was skipping that year and going directly to 1964. I made the comments about Betty being pregnant since 1962 and how she would have already given birth by 1964. If it's 1963, obviously the time line would work. I really thought Weiner was going to jump to 1964 (and make each season two years apart). It was not clear what year it was from season three's first episode. Anyone know?

Lookhomewardangel88 it is 1963... about six months after we left off in S2.

I'm not sure why so many people are shocked about the scene with Sal. I mean we've seen Don in explicit scenes (remember him and Bobbie outside of the restroom at Lutece?) and we've even seen Betty doing about the exact same thing as Sal and the bellboy with her fling at the bar. We all know Sal is gay and, like Kurt, he "has sex with the man, not the woman".

On the whole, very disappointing. What was that firing all about? Who was this guy? He came out of nowhere, and left just as fast.This guy was "Head of Accounts?" I thought Duck Phillips was. I never saw this guy before, hence I had no sympathy for him when he was canned. Plus, nobody attempted to stop him in his destructive path out the door, which was far too long in it's ranting.
Plus, this splitting of accounts betwixt Ken and Pete was pretty stupid, on a Plot AND and Business sense. It looks contrived, and is a clumsy plot complication. Plus, Pete's reaction to all this was a great deal less cooler than past crisis's. What was those bumps/pimples on his face when he was in the Office? Does he have the measles? Oh, it was sweat. I get it...Booooring.
This show had a restrained character and delivery that was a good part of it's magic. All gone, now, for the sake of "excitement." Not Good.

Also, that scene with Don and the Stewardess was a GREAT dissapointment. After all that agonizing with Betty at the end of Season Two, you would have though there would be a great deal of hesitantcy on Don's part on the prospect of having another fling with a Stewardess. A great possibility for some outstanding - waisted.

The guy who got fired was Burt Peterson. We were introduced to him in S2 when Hildy told Pete that Burt Peterson has a problem with his meal expenses related to Lutece ("it was IBM for Chrissakes"). Duck was Head of Accounts (I remember Don saying "I'm pulling the trigger on Duck Phillips as Head of Accounts"). I think the purpose of the whole scene was to show that Duck was no longer HoA and Pete did not get that position as Duck promissed. Then it sets up the plot for Burt Peterson's replacement (or replacementS as the case may be).

canadians looking to see season 3 need to download itunes.ca and you can pay to watch MadMen as a digital download.

OK, I get it. Burt Peterson was the Bean Counter. But, why, when he stormed off, did he threaten those who fired him that they "would miss his rolodex?" What would a bean counter have to do with Sales, or Clients? What could he threaten them with? Makes no sense. Weak Episode.

Could someone explain the beginning scene with Don seeing his past with his mother giving birth to his brother? Was the first lady that delivered a stillborn the one that received the baby Dick? Did her husband father Don also? I am remembering bits and pieces from previous season and it is confusing.

I too was confused about how Burt Peterson went from bean counter to HoA... I'm sure Matt will somehow explain all that later. One thing was for sure, Pete was not made HoA like Duck promissed.

The first woman you see giving birth was Dick's father's wife. She apparently keeps having still-born births. The mid-wife promisses her that God will give her a child. The second woman giving birth is Dick's biological mother (the hooker). She dies giving birth to Dick and the mid-wife delivers him to Dick's father's house (because he is the one who impregnated the hooker).

Suit'nTie I have to agree that I was shocked at how easily Don went to bed with the stewardess after all of his agonizing at the end of S2 about how he needed to get his life with Betty back together... the conversation with Anna, his admition, the letter... and then BAM back in the sack.

John what's happening to my comments?

I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!
Don: His birth: we're just getting more background on how he came to have his "whorechild" status. We know from prior seasons that the woman who raised him hated him, and his father also mistreated him.
Don fired: NEVER--he IS the show--smooth, cool, sophisticated, flawed--the perfect ANTIHERO.
Peter: what a whiny primadonna! This is the guy I love to hate. I thought it was great he has to go into a showdown for this job.
New young Brit: another worm that we're going to love to hate.
Sal: He's not coming out...ever...he's probably just going to start having flings. As for the scene, this is 2009, have you not watched anything above a PG? Don was his usual calm, collected, cool self: not mentioning it on the plane, but the obvious reference to Sal about exposure--GENIUS!!
Peggy: she wasn't gossiping--she was complaining to Joan so she can get a replacement. She probably feels more comfortable in her position now and feels she should have a good secretary.
Joan: what does she care--she's waiting to get knocked up by the good Dr. so she can quit for good. I also didn't catch that she was already married.
Roger: come on folks. He's going to Greece with the wife or the sweet young thing? Seriously.
Betty: preggers again and locked in good this time. Why would Don stop cheating? The man cannot help himself. Remember his past? He wasn't exactly raised with any love or morals. That's just it--this is his torment. He re-invented himself, but the trophy wife and cute kids in the suburbs are just part of the package. The calculated career and flings are the other.
HAPPY VIEWING!

Can't wait till Coop scoops the "Brits".

Loved Crossgrove.

Will Pete stop being a snaperhead?

Can anyone tell me the name of the song that plays as the episode ends?

The "Limit Your Exposure" line from Don to Sal I heard as an implicit warning to Sal (as well as a suggested tag line). Don saw the bellboy, and while he doesn't seem to have a moral issue with Sal's homosexuality, he obviously feels Sal should watch it. Sal is working in a very buttoned-up industry (for the time and place).

Like others here, I thought the opening scene was heavy-handed, but I think some of you are reading WAY too much in the skin on the warming milk! Some things just are what they are and nothing else.

Agreed on Don's choice of the vacuous stewardess - what was the point? Plus my mother-in-law was a stewardess back then and says under no circumstances were they allowed to wear their uniforms out-of-work, and never while drinking - a firing offense!

I didn't have a problem with Sal's almost-sex scene - thought it moved Sal's story right along. And Pete is just annoying as hell - some things never change!

Madame Defarge: Interesting thought about Lane and Hooker being an item. I hate both of them, those Limey pricks. I want Hooker and Joan to get in a big bitch fight!

Do you guys thing Sal has ever had a gay encounter? He seemed to be really trying to bury those feelings in the past. And you knew Don was not going to call him out about it - he is all about keeping secrets.

So funny when Ken was just smiling and humming and all happy to get half the accounts and Pete was just totallly pissed off. His wife is just so darling, I wonder what she sees in him.

Looking forward to next week! I hate those previews - they are never talking to who you think they are talking to.

This show was ridiculous. It was definitely not what I signed up for the previous two seasons. No one's stories advanced, and, at times, you felt like you had been kept out of the loop. The Don I have come to know would not have gone for someone just like Betty (ie. the engaged stewardess) he would have found someone worldly. I also feel like they put in the Sal bit, because they realized everything else was boring, but it seemed sleazy, crude, and not because it was gay, but because I've never seen a woman paw at Don's boxers like that. The actors seemed like they were playing caricatures of their previous selves. All in all, this episode left much to be desired.

Has Mad Men already jumped the shark?

Does anyone know what the asian print in Cooper's office was??? SOOO cool.

Greg,
Your comments really are great! Of course, leave it to a man to see that curdled milk as a metaphor for Don's "life force"?

Also, you got the title right "London Fog" is about SC. Totally, I missed, that (fell asleep during second showing).

And Don's completely uncomfortable approach to Sal. "I want you to be completely honest with me....." "Limit your exposure." Sal was so relieved!
I screamed when Don saw that man emerge from Sal's room.
I mentioned on that quotes post about Bert Cooper's new acquisition. The Asian painting of the squid ravaging the geisha. "What man knows that woman's ecstasy?" (paraphrase). Then Don enters the office, and Bert says, "we were just speaking of you".

The music, I noticed was also of the same during the beginning flashback. Kinda like the 'Fargo" music. Alluding to the back woods where Don/Dick came from.
Maybe it was Dick's birthday. Maybe Don would say anything to get into a woman's Playtex panty girdle. (that was a panty girdle? the new invention?)
I will check out your blogspot.
You add to this board.
Thanks.

I actually thought the episode beginning was a good introduction to Don's emotional state about his wife's condition. I wouldn't call the scene a flashback because Don would never have been able to remember those scenes. Instead, they're probably a manifestation of his imagination and fears of his own story of his birth.

What bothered me about this episode is that it seems very little has changed overall regardless of some significant plot twists and character developments in the second season. Don's still cheating at every opportunity. Betty is still clueless about it (has her fling changed her at all?). Sal is still repressed regardless of a brief yet unsatisfactory encounter. Peggy is still focused on her work, and significantly lacking in emotional connection to anything after the first season finale.

The best insights were into Pete Cambell's character, and even then they just proved to solidify what one already knew: he's impatient, he's young, he's impetuous, and he desperately wants to be seen as successful to his family- not including Trudy. I think their dynamic is very interesting and will become more interesting if Trudy presses him for children. Despite the fact that I don't like the character, he's one of the most developed characters in the show.

Did I blink and miss Sterling's wife/wife-to-be? It was such a large part of the last season's end.

I'd like to see more of Joan's story. Joan seems to have the capacity to be vulnerable which is lacking in several of the female characters in Mad Men. The best part is, she's smart. I don't believe that her true desires are visible in the show though. She seems relatively dissatisfied with her engagement, but what does she really want?

The short answer is success. That's what everyone wants on Mad Men in their own way, and everyone has their own definition. Interesting that Dick Whitman struggles with his already-obtained success. That's what keeps me watching.

Ok gang I have to be honest, I don't understand what people are missing, and complaining about. It's really aggrivating.

As far as Don and the Stewardess: The show opened with, after the flashback, Don and Betty being all home-y. Don tried last year to turn himself around.

Here, they're showing he's accomplished a bit of that, but, toss a pretty blond in his face and he still can't say immediately no. His impulses rule and he can't get a hold on it. That's part of what makes Don, Don.

There's 2 points to this: 1, it illustates the effort he's making vs the fact that inside he has a switch that just doesn't turn off. The outside wants it off but the inside rules over.

And 2, this is what bothers me about the complainers: don't you get it?? When the girl is undressing for him, she says, "you're turn". He says (as best as Don is able to) NO.

Don finally said NO... to something at least. Just like he tried last year with Asian "waitress" in that one episode. Something inside him is really trying but he can't defeat it. Outside he's the Man, he's Don Draper.

Inside, he's a wreck.

When he tells the girl to keep undressing for him, it's not about being all smoldering romance novel sexy. It's a stall tactic because he's fighting himself inside, and losing.

How do people not get that????

I'm sorry but you complainers are just incorrect, I'll leave it at that.

Okay, first - loved it, loved the near dream state of Don's reminiscenses around his birth. He's undoubtedly familiar with the details because neither his stepmother nor father ever let him forget (not to mention his stepfather.) He may have even talked with the midwife when he was a teen and looking for confirmation that he was indeed a misbegotten child.

Second, for those whining about the quality of what "must be new writers" on this episode - it was written by Matt Weiner. Says so right on the opening credits. He never puts a line of dialogue in that doesn't have some reason for being there; we just may not go "aha!" until 8 shows down the road.

Third, re the "little lesbian" reference. Betty was a (for the time) well-educated woman who attended the women's college Bryn Mawr, and who modeled. I have no doubt she was familiar with lesbians, as co-workers or classmates or both.

Fourth, I think Don really is making an attempt at behaving - it was a (no pun intended) limp conquest: the stew was no challenge, we don't know that they went back post-alarm and consummated the act (probably not - fire alarms ruin the mood) so I see it as a case of "the spirit is willing (to be true to Betty) but the flesh is weak." There was no relish in the conquest as there might have been in the past.

Fifth - loved Betty's comment that maybe Don needs reading glasses, lol.

Sixth - poor Bert C. I think he regretted the merger from the get-go. That ranch out west must be looking more attractive than the train wreck that is the British takeover of Sterling Cooper.

Speaking of Sterling, what else does Roger have to do these days beyond spending his share of the sale and keeping Jane happy? Anything? I didn't see any diamonds on the doorknobs, btw, but Don's typing his own stuff. I think Joan should assign Lola as John Hooker's "girl." Peggy could then get someone who actually works, and happy Lola would foul up Moneypenny's office even more, lol. Take Lois out of the switchboard and give her a chance to shine.

Got a giggle out of Pete's behind-the-door happy dance but of course he was back to being himself once he realized he had to compete for the job. And Harry's department seems to have grown by leaps and bounds in a very short period. What of Paul? Maybe we'll see next week.

I'm happy for Sal (great work by BB) but don't expect him to suddenly make an announcement a la Kurt. I see a closet in his future for years to come.

Greg: You are right on. Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same program as everyone else because lots of people don't seem to get it.

I thought the episode was very good. that said I agree that the style has changed. But that is perfect. SC isn't the same agency, and as we know the world is about to take several radical turns.

I think that the change in tone is foreshadowing of what is to come.

A prediction about Joan. the marriage will be short lived and will end very badly, either through a miscarriage or abuse. Afterall we already know that her future husband is capable of rape.

Joan will quit SC then return. But when she does she will be a changed woman, because her view will become that SC is going to be the only world for her and not a stopping point on the way to marriage.

As far as Don's womanizing, it is foolish to think it wouldn't continue but I also believe that it is going to shift from "relationship" affairs to more annonymous "tricks" -- hence the fake name, the fake job and the fake birthday.

Also- Since Don already has a fake name, and a "fake" life this dalliance is artistic commentary. Remember his line "I have been many places only to find I have already been there" (more or less). I think this is also why the Stewardess with a poor carbon copy of Betty.

Not the we will probably see her again, but I liked the she is a low rent version of Betty, the sourthern accent she is trying to hide, the funny story about Fritos etc.

I liked that although the focus was not of Peggy this episode, we got three important pieces of info. One- She has become more sure of herself (complaining about her secretary, looking down on John Hooker)

Two- in the distribution scene when the comment is made about how many accounts she is working on "What are all these O's on this list"

Three- She is dealing directly with clients on her own "Get me mr S... from Lever on the phone"

Can't wait to see where this is going.

I'm relieved I am not the only one who feels this episode didn't match up to the quality to which we've grown so accustomed.

Lookhomeward... made an excellent point: the sex scene with Don was full of opportunities for psychodrama wasted. It lacked any form of nuances. Her reference to being called a model fell flat because Don had no reaction to it. None. When she was babbling on and on, even I wanted her to shut up and I was waiting for Don to have a Bobbie Barret flashback. I thought he'd have a moment and walk out and go walk around like Helen Bishop. The whole scene fell flat. He looked bored and not the least bit creeped out that he was with a Betty clone. Remember how he felt when he saw a woman who looked like Betty in CA? Betty is his Madonna, he was with um, something else, and... nothing. The whole room set up and camera angles also reminded me too much about his hook up with Joy. There was so much that could have been in that scene instead of a bland, boring encounter. The fire alarm kept me from falling asleep.

I didn't really have any problems with the Sal and bellboy scene, although it did get more... personal... than most of the other sex we've seen, In earlier discussions and articles written about being in another town, a lot was made of the fact that it was Sal's home town they were visiting. That went no where. Another wasted op for something that could have been a little more intriguing.

Intrigue.

That is something every single other episode had.

Peggy may as well have not even been in this episode. She was acting like she did back in her first week. She knows better than to complain to Joan. That scene was nearly worthless, and she's one of my favorite characters.

A number of people have said that they knew Don was going to cheat in the first episode. This means one thing: predictable. However, many others are saying that "Don is back to his old ways" or "Don hasn't changed" but as I mentioned, he has changed in that now, any old floozy will do.

I don't watch many (really any) TV shows, so to have so much mental activity and emotion invested into this one makes this disappointment feel very personal. I didn't expect everything to feel the same or have everything put together in neat, tidy packages, but most of it was either really obvious or ridiculously contrived or a little of both. In retrospect and from reading other comments, I think the writers were trying way too hard to be risque, Coop's Asian print included. I may watch it again later today... maybe I'll feel better about it in a different mindset, but I don't see how...

Sal will remain in the closet for years. Not only would he risk losing his job and for sure his marriage, keep in mind that Sal is Italian Catholic. He for sure views what he has done as extremely sinful and it would kill his mother!

As for Don having that fling, it seems almost expected that one of the perks of business travel was to have meaningless sex. This seemed almost expected as evidenced by the guys talking to Sal afterwards about his trip. Don clearly had many of these as well and most likely this was not his first flight attendant. Remember how mad he was when Bobbie knew he had had other flings.

This kind of extramarital affair is so easy for him to compartmentalize. Seeing the wings in the hands of his daughter was so jarring for him because it is a blurring of the clean lines he tries to draw. He does the same thing with his past and present, his Dick/Don lives.

Loved the episode! Great promise for the new season. The reactions to the show have been interesting. Here are a few of my reactions to the reactions:

I'm glad to see that the show is disappointing those fans who didn't see what they expected to see. It means that the show is continuing to go its own way, rather than pander to its audience and settle into predictable patterns. This isn't a Fox sitcom, people! Expect the show to challenge your preconceptions.

Don is not a hero. He is a complex, deeply flawed, highly fallible character. He's probably not going to learn from all of his many mistakes, nor is he likely to live happily ever after. It's a good thing that he's damned good at his job!

The word "lesbian" was not invented in the 80s. It was in regular use in the 60s, and much earlier, for that matter (I was born in the early 50s). Try to remember that the movies and television shows of the 50s and 60s were not accurate portrayals of the times, not even the ones that were supposed to be filled with "gritty realism." They weren't even close.

Don could not show his driver's license to the stewardess because he was using his brother-in-law's name. Besides, he was probably lying about it being his birthday.

When the stewardess told Don that it was his turn to lose some laundry, he did not refuse because he was having second thoughts. He told her to keep undressing. It was a dominance thing, which is VERY consistent with Don's character. HE calls the shots, not her!

If you were shocked by Sal's sex scene, watch another show. The rest of us won't miss you. Mad Men doesn't need high ratings to survive, which is fortunate, because it's never going to be a ratings giant. Mad Men has a niche audience that appeals to certain advertisers. The show doesn't need big numbers, so it will never need to compromise its standards in order to attract viewers more comfortable with, say, Two and a Half Men.

I have more, but this post is already long enough.

For the record, I wasn't complaining about the writing of Don's daliance, just trying to put it in perspective with the tone of the last few episodes of S2. When we left off, Don really had it in his heart that he couldn't live without Betty (and that was before he even knew she was pregnant). Then he has a fling with a stewardess so it makes me wonder what we might have missed in the six months in-between. Looking back, with the help of Greg's comments, I can see where he may be trying to fight it but its something that is out of his control.

What's all the blather about me and the stewardess? Don't you know I get the inspiration for my ads from real life? Where do you think I got the raincoat flasher idea? (OK, maybe that had something to do with my peek in at Sal.)
Really now. You people are dumber than a coat check girl after a couple of Gin Fizzes.

Bets: I too think that if things don't quickly improve (it is after all, the very beginning of season three) that MM might be a candidate for having jumped the shark. There are people here that will argue incessantly that this was a great episode (let's be honest, everyone has a different opinion) but I agree with those who did not care for this one. It was dull, flat and boring, and frankly, this constant psycho-drama with Don involving his mother (look, after a certain point in one's life they need to get past the mother was a whore or whatever issues), who cares at this point? We know Don's past (and the Dick Whitman thing) and I think if Weiner wanted to keep that intrigue going, they should NEVER have let us in on it in Season one, i.e., divulging that Don was really Dick or whomever. At this point Don has become the worst possible thing a series character could become: Predictable!

Also, someone stated it was 1963, six months after the end of season two. It thought Weiner was skipping 1963 (he stated it on numerous occasions). Could someone please tell me how you KNOW it's six months later, i.e., 1963. I saw no indication that we should be aware of this (Weiner has always assumed a lot in my opinion, i.e., that we automatically KNOW things), other than Betty was still pregnant and of course would not be if it was 1964. I also read someplace that the first scene would be with she and Don and their new baby. Obviously wrong. And how does Betty KNOW she is carrying a girl? She referred to this in one scene, a rather boring one. Ultrasound was not available in the sixties. How does she know it's a girl?

Anyway, again, I agree that MM may be jumping the proverbial shark this season - or it just did. Hamm seems to be phoning in his performance, at least in the first episode. While I realize his character is supposed to be tight-lipped and "mysterious" to some degree, I think Hamm might be carrying it a bit too far to the point of petrification!

Bets: I too think that if things don't quickly improve (it is after all, the very beginning of season three) that MM might be a candidate for having jumped the shark. There are people here that will argue incessantly that this was a great episode (let's be honest, everyone has a different opinion) but I agree with those who did not care for this one. It was dull, flat and boring, and frankly, this constant psycho-drama with Don involving his mother (look, after a certain point in one's life they need to get past the mother was a whore or whatever issues), who cares at this point? We know Don's past (and the Dick Whitman thing) and I think if Weiner wanted to keep that intrigue going, they should NEVER have let us in on it in Season one, i.e., divulging that Don was really Dick or whomever. At this point Don has become the worst possible thing a series character could become: Predictable!

Also, someone stated it was 1963, six months after the end of season two. It thought Weiner was skipping 1963 (he stated it on numerous occasions). Could someone please tell me how you KNOW it's six months later, i.e., 1963. I saw no indication that we should be aware of this (Weiner has always assumed a lot in my opinion, i.e., that we automatically KNOW things), other than Betty was still pregnant and of course would not be if it was 1964. I also read someplace that the first scene would be with she and Don and their new baby. Obviously wrong. And how does Betty KNOW she is carrying a girl? She referred to this in one scene, a rather boring one. Ultrasound was not available in the sixties. How does she know it's a girl?

Anyway, again, I agree that MM may be jumping the proverbial shark this season - or it just did. Hamm seems to be phoning in his performance, at least in the first episode. While I realize his character is supposed to be tight-lipped and "mysterious" to some degree, I think Hamm might be carrying it a bit too far to the point of petrification!

Bets: I too think that if things don't quickly improve (it is after all, the very beginning of season three) that MM might be a candidate for having jumped the shark. There are people here that will argue incessantly that this was a great episode (let's be honest, everyone has a different opinion) but I agree with those who did not care for this one. It was dull, flat and boring, and frankly, this constant psycho-drama with Don involving his mother (look, after a certain point in one's life they need to get past the mother was a whore or whatever issues), who cares at this point? We know Don's past (and the Dick Whitman thing) and I think if Weiner wanted to keep that intrigue going, they should NEVER have let us in on it in Season one, i.e., divulging that Don was really Dick or whomever. At this point Don has become the worst possible thing a series character could become: Predictable!

Also, someone stated it was 1963, six months after the end of season two. It thought Weiner was skipping 1963 (he stated it on numerous occasions). Could someone please tell me how you KNOW it's six months later, i.e., 1963. I saw no indication that we should be aware of this (Weiner has always assumed a lot in my opinion, i.e., that we automatically KNOW things), other than Betty was still pregnant and of course would not be if it was 1964. I also read someplace that the first scene would be with she and Don and their new baby. Obviously wrong. And how does Betty KNOW she is carrying a girl? She referred to this in one scene, a rather boring one. Ultrasound was not available in the sixties. How does she know it's a girl?

Anyway, again, I agree that MM may be jumping the proverbial shark this season - or it just did. Hamm seems to be phoning in his performance, at least in the first episode. While I realize his character is supposed to be tight-lipped and "mysterious" to some degree, I think Hamm might be carrying it a bit too far to the point of petrification!

And another thing... oh what a guffaw we boys had with our little "double account head" name game.
Ha ha, don't like it? Too bad boys. Go off and pout like a little girl to Muffy.

P.S. Suck it, Campbell!

Lookhomewardangel88 we know it is 1963 because Betty has not had her baby yet and she is 8/9 months pregnant. In addition, Matt confirms it here...

http://sepinwall.blogspot.com/2009/08/mad-men-talking-out-of-town-with.html

Sorry for the multiple postings but this site is NOT working correctly! I hit the submit button and 15 minutes later it was still trying to submit my post. Also, posts seem to be disappearing. What gives?

Also, could we please refrain from calling others dumb and stupid because they are not as "brilliant" as some here apparently feel they are in catching every nuance (or thinking they do) that this show is offering up? When someone asks a question, don't treat them as though they are an idiot simply because everything is crystal clear to you (or again, you THINK it is). Some people here (and this went on last season too) outline the entire episode in great detail, and then become angry when others don't agree with their take on it, or interject something else. You would think some people here are professional screen writers the way they analyze in minutia. Others have a right to not like a character or think an episode was boring and this does NOT mean they are dumb or stupid. MM like everything is a matter of taste and opinion. I recall from last season that if you did not adore Betty but hate Don, or hate Pete and love Peggy, you were, in some people's books, a total idiot. Let's not get back into that mode. MM is a show. Period. It has always drawn a low share of the Nielsen ratings even though it has been lauded elsewhere. Episode One was not up to par on any level in my opinion. If you have a differing opinion fine, but those who share one opinion or another are entitled to them.

DoubleDon: By the way, my last comment before this one was not directed at you. You answered in a civil manner. Some here don't seem to be able to do that.

Great show. Regarding the point about Stoli, it was available in the US in the 1970s. I remember in the late 70s one of my high school classmates referring to it. The shift probably came as a result of the 1972 Brezhnev-Nixon summit that opened the way for Pepsi to become available in East Bloc countires. So the Greece explanation will have to do, though I'm not entirely satisfied with it. But if placing Stoli is what it takes for Michael Weiner to get this show on the air, I'll live with a small inconsistency here and there.

As for Don's continued infidelity, I'm not sure it contradicts his readiness to be closer to Betty. As he said in last night's episode, he'll always come home -- where else does he have to go? Reverting to Dick doesn't seem a real option, he tried it briefly in CA last year. It would mean losing all he has and also a betrayal of his promise to the real Don's widow. He also really does miss Betty -- remember that the jet set girl he met in CA also resembled Betty, and was a passing substitute for his estranged beloved. Don's problem is even as he draws closer to Betty he cannot entirely escape Dick without utterly destroying the world he has built for himself.

This is why the stewardess provided a perfect outlet for the complexities of his double life. The "It's my birthday" line is key. Sure it was a line, but his comment about the driver's license not helping only makes sense if he was speaking obliquely about Dick's birthday --he certainly didn't need it to get the stewardess into his room. By mentioning it to her he is sharing a deep secret he cannot share with Betty or any one else without losing everything. It doesn't even really matter if the stewardess believes him, he has unburdoned himself safely, especially since the stewardess thinks his name is Bill. What is more because the stewardess looks like Betty he can pretend he is being his true self to his true love, even as he pretends he is is not betraying Betty because the Don persona is explicitly not involved.

Just to back this up interpretation further, the reference to his birthday, meaning Dick's birthday, provides the realexplanation of what triggered the flashback at the beginning. At the time we seem to think it is Betty's pregnancy that has him thinking about birth, but in fact he is thinking about his impending birthday and that sad life he cannot communicate to Betty. That difficulty doesn't justify Don/Dick's continued philandry, but I think it shows how complicated his burden is. The more he loves her the more problematic his original duplicity becomes because he would like nothing more than come clean, even as it makes the cost of coming clean all the greater, because it would mean losing everthing including the woman he loves.

This was a disappointment mostly because the writing and filmmaking just weren’t up to par with this show. It hardly seemed like the same series. The opening flashback was downright hokey, I felt like I was in a small-town theater in the round. The rest was pretty disjointed, and so busy trying to shock us, it was just pretty boring. I was rolling my eyes in the first three minutes. Seems like the “statements” have become the stars, rather than the series itself. The stewardess storyline was a real yawner, I’m finding Don and his wife and the Brits a lot less intriguing than I did over the break, and whoever said this episode was basically lacking in nuance and depth was not wrong. Don didn’t come over so much as conflicted in this episode – just stupid. The Brits were almost cartoon-ized and one-dimensional or something. Seems like Matt is focusing so much on getting all the cultural and political references in there, he doesn’t have time to give his full attention to the writing and filmmaking, and actual stories of the characters we know. He didn’t just portray change, he seems to have also changed most of his former award-winning methods.

Lookhomewardangel88.........very well said.

This episode was not up to par of past seasons, and a complete snooze fest. Not the way to start off the season after a years hiatus. I will not state my comments are "IMHO", because I have always thought it trite to state the obvious.

Lookhomewardangel88.........very well said.

This episode was not up to par of past seasons, and a complete snooze fest. Not the way to start off the season after a years hiatus. I will not state my comments are "IMHO", because I have always thought it trite to state the obvious.

Lookhomewardangel88.........very well said.

This episode was not up to par of past seasons, and a complete snooze fest. Not the way to start off the season after a years hiatus. I will not state my comments are "IMHO", because I have always thought it trite to state the obvious.

Holy Moly.......Sorry for the multiple posts. This site needs some serious maintenance.

“The opening flashback sequence was downright hokey.” That scene was just too much pointless information for me. How can that have had an effect on him if he was a newborn? We already know that story. It would have been much more effectual to Dick Whitman’s ongoing inner turmoil to have shown the scene where Dick was 15, was allowed to see a dead body, and carrying a coffin for the first time, as he described in his pillow talk with Rachel Menken in Season 1.

This episode was a bit disappointing as were a few episodes from seasons one and two. The beauty of the show is that it builds, it has high notes and low notes... I thought the opening scene of Dick's rememberances of what he thought his beginning was was not done with as much feeling as past flashbacks and was a bit flat. Hate Don's new hair. I think all of us who are such avid fans just can't wait for all the beans to be spilled...The Duck situtation will reveal itself. It is likely that he never even started at the new agency and was fired for breach of contract, re his drinking... it is 1963, Matthrew Weiner did not skip a year and a half as in season one to season two, thought Peggy behaved as she did when she first started in sense of spending some time to figure out where she fits in in her NEW job. The British angle better get a bit more exciting because right now it is very dull, although moneypenny could be a good sterotype to pit a lot against. I look forward to the entire new season, not just episode one season 3!

The opening scene where we saw Don's birth give us more insight into his character. Disturbing to watch, but that's part of why I love Mad Men. I can see why he welcomed a new name and not just a new identity, given the cruel way in which he was named Dick.

This was a great Pete Campbell episode. I had suspected he would be named head of Accounts, but was completely surprised when Ken was the co-head. I love the writing, always giving us the surprises.

Moneypenny! My favorite line of the entire episode. Joan Holloway is as awesome as ever and her interaction with the male "secretary" was classic Joan. I loved it when she told him if she would have known about Bert, she would have had his coat and his rolodex. She looked at her ring and said she couldn't wait to get out of there (as she and Peggy were waiting for the elevator) and also said brides (meaning Peggy's girl Lola) were very self-conscious. Makes me think the Christmas wedding to her doctor did not happen. On a few occasions she has alluded to the fact that once women get married, they stop working and she's still working. On the one hand, I hope she isn't married to him, but on the other hand, it would make for a great storyline for her to be married to an abuser.

I thought it odd for Don to be with the blond stewardess when the women we have seen him with have all been brunettes and very strong...Rachel, Midge, Bobbie. Shelly was a little too much like Betty and he seemed to not have much passion or interest in the encounter.

Can anyone tell me - Where was Duck Phillips?

Obviously, some posters forgot about "The Jet Set". Not all of the episodes are going to be rock solid, but MM has proven over and over that each episode builds on the last and there is always a reason why it's written the way it is.

No, I didn't find this episode particularly compelling, but I'm willing to see where it goes from here.

Imamarilyn: Matt confirmed in an article that both Joan and Roger were married during the last six month period.

lookhomewardangel, Betty didn't "know" the baby is a girl. She just thinks/hopes it is. Don questioned that she was so certain it was a girl. Betty doesn't like little boys so she's hoping she has another daughter.

zabadu, thanks for the info on Joan and Roger both being married. : )

I agree that there is always a reason why things are they way they are. We usually see that later on in another episode.

I loved the episode. I can't wait for the rest of the season. I think that Don had the fling with the stewardess because Betty is 8/9 months pregnant, he hasn't had any sex in months and he's horny as hell (we all know he wouldn't have been faithful to Betty anyway).
And by the way, the stewardess' did not drink anything she did tell Don and Sal that they can't drink while they are in uniform.
I ready for the other 12 episodes.

Chatty pattie: The stew Don tried to sleep with was drunk. Look at the pictures from this episode - there's a drink right in front of her. She stumbled in the hallway and had to be supported by Don.

Matthew Weiner may be a perfectionist, but it doesn't extend to his grammar. Within two minutes last night, characters said, "Someone will distinguish THEMSELVES" ("Someone will distinguish HIMSELF"), "I feel BADLY" ("I feel BAD") and "I should just LAY down" ("I should just LIE down"). These days, people may not care about grammar, but 45 years ago they certainly did.

You are right Zabadu. My bad

Anonymous is sure having fun today.

DISAPPOINTING and PREDICTABLE!! It seems we waited FOREVER for the season to begin again and then it was so predictable. Introducing gay characters (to 2nd and 3rd seasons) to add another story line seems so formulaic for a new series. Hope this show doesn't turn out to be all about Sal and Don's sexuality - that would be too easy to write. Last year we learned about the characters along with a strong story. You only get a few shows before I go back to reading my novels on Sunday nights!

Thanks to previous poster for pointing out the (now seemingly obvious) double meaning of London Fog. The whole office is a London Fog now that the Brits have everyone scared of their shadows. Duck's whereabouts may or may not be revealed, knowing this show and how much credit they give their audience, it will be some oblique reference, an offhand comment and a smirky laugh and we'll be able to fill in the blanks. Duck's descent into drunkenness and unprofessional behavior was quite clear in the last season.

People who were 'shocked/turned off' by Sal's love scene, come on. This is 2009. I thought it was realistic, the acting was fabulous, well done, Mad Men. By far the most passionate scene in the episode. The contrast to Don's banal shenanigans in the room upstairs was brilliant.

Now a few criticisms. So, Betty had this awakening and huge heartache over Don's infidelity last season, and then she's a naive Pollyanna this season? She wouldn't even WONDER about the stewardess pin? Seriously??? Is she on Valium? Has she taken stupid pills?

Peggy: Seems more ballsy with her secretary, but like an eager puppy trying to get in with the popular girls in her interaction with Joan. Is she taking the stupid pills too?

Lastly, a different view on Don's indiscretion: Many posters are confused. Why, after going after such strong, smart, dominating women -- relationships in which he genuinely seems to fall in love -- is he going to screw a ditzy blond stewardess? I think that plot point was very deliberate, I think he decided after Bobbie that he wasn't going to let himself get involved in another heavy, emotionally taxing affair. He is going to try and 'be as good as Don can be' by messing around with cheap floozies in one-night stands. He risked a lot emotionally in season 2 and especially with baby on the way and almost losing his family, he's going to play it safe for a while. We'll see how long that lasts, but I think this was the writers' way of showing Don's mindset. As we can all see, he is boredboredbored with women like the stewardess, so I suspect it won't be long before another Rachel/Bobbie type gets him in their clutches.

PS ~ Thanks to previous poster for the tip that both Joan and Roger got married in between Seasons 2 and 3.

madmengirl: It's my opinion that Betty thinks because Don "confessed" that it was a one time thing that would never happen again. She's in her blissful pregnant state thinking all is right with the world.

She wouldn't be concerned at all about the stews wings, as they gave away wings regularly to anyone who asked back then.

Peggy is trying to be tough...but wants Joan's respect. She hasn't figured out how to be both yet.

Missed last night's premier, though I've been counting down the days.I was a teen in the 60's and later after college, a flight attendant.Panty girdles,Lamaze techniques(though rarely) and referring to homosexual women as lesbians were certainly in use in the early 60s.Only Flight Attendants, who did not care about loosing their jobs, would be caught drinking in uniform...and believe it or not it was a very good job in those days.Floosey or not, very few pretty young things could resist a Don Draper. look forward to the encore in my area tonight.

I enjoyed the episode--although I'm pissed at Don for still running around on Betty even after their separation/fight. Even after he admitted to being "disrespectful" to her. So he's still up to his old tricks...still living a double live in his relationships; which I think is just an embodiment of his double life--Dick/Don.

When will he ever learn? Betty is so beautiful and interesting...why isn't she enough for him? I think Don realizes this too, but can't control that fact that he's too much like his father.

Lat night's opener was fantastic. It hit the ground running and didn't disappoint. Sal let his proverbial " hair " down while out of town, and the scene was well done.
At the end of it all, both he and Don had their little secrets to keep.
I really love the way the show is playing the Brits against the Yanks, with the two different corporate cultures.
As to Duck, I predict a few successes, and then a drunken fall from grace.
Pete is one of my favorite characters. He is so awkward, kind of like a somewhat capable George Costanza.
Can't wait for next week's episode!

I also agree that the lesbian reference was out of character.

Am curious to know why/how Betty and Don worked things out. I look forward to seeing how despicable Pete is going to be in his rivalry with Ken. The British story lines should get more complex as the season goes along. Each episode it seems concentrates on just a few characters...Hopefully this week we will see more of Peggy and Joan and what's been going on with them. Hopefully we will see Don be a bit more complicated than to just go for an woman who throws herself in his way...

-loved the hats.
-loved the antfarm.
-Pryce is now in Duck's former office, don't ya'll recognize it?
-that white skin off of the scalded milk resembled the caul of a stillborn fetus-nodding to Dick/Don's mother's tragedy.
-Ken: "that's spectacular."
-Pete was going to whine to Don about the situation and then sees Roger and thanks them both profusely and then pours Bert and himself non-Stoli drinks.
-Peterson was OTT but I cd totally visualize him raging away at the bar at Grand Central.

All-in-all the charachter portrayals are tremendously strong. It is the brilliant ACTING and CASTING and WRITING that keeps us Maddicts coming backbackback to this deep wet well.
Cheers!

I thought the best part of last night episode was when Sal kissed the bellboy, I was as giddy as a school girl XD

What a disappointment! I waited many months for this premier. I recorded it - and deleted it.

Why the "Shock" value added? We all know what both gay and straight guys do in private. But as ad men say, sex sells so let's show 'em a lot more than they need to know and hope it boosts the ratings. (Maybe it does).

Not one character is likable. All can be described in one word: Hubris. Hubris sells.

Don Draper's bad childhood memories don't excuse the sullen, shallow, disrespectful attitude he maintains for everyone he knows - including his wife and kids.

The cryptic dialog is getting old - and didn't work this time.

I'll give it one more episode . . .

A soon to be ex-viewer

So, the rape was not "shock value"?
Roger riding a girl was not "shock value"?
Don grabbing Bobbie by the crotch and hair was not "shock value"?
Don tying up Bobbie and leaving her there was not "shock value"?
Peggy having a baby was not "shock value"?

Seems "shock value" only refers to gay people.

If you're a "soon to be ex-viewer", why bother commenting?

I am with Mr. Disapointment. That episode was literally awful. Pete's wife telling him to beat Ken, Don and the sappy pillow-talk, Bert saying things he never would have... nothing made sense. It is like the lines were written and then they all decided to switch scripts or something. The style is totally gone. It was cheap and cheeky, it was beneath the show and painfully, I think a sign of the show writing to the hype and not lead setting the trend of brilliant, subtle writing that got the show where it is. This episode was the Jar Jar Binx of the series.

Well, good for you Anonymous. Thanks for sharing.

Agree that this episode did not seem up to par, but then I think the anticipation completely overwhelmed the reality, so I take my disappointment with a grain of salt.
What I am more disappointed in is that they seem to be focusing less and less on the advertising aspect of the show, and too much on the individuals' lives. Lately, these people could be in any office environment, which now serves merely as the background against which the angst is displayed. I want more story lines about product selling in this historical context. I'd even settle for 70/30. Oh well--it WAS only the first episode....

Where is Peggy's baby? Was her sister raising him last season...I never could figure it out.

Thanks.

Thanks for the props, Zabadu. Sharing is what a blog/chat is for. Sorry if I took up too much space.

And more ads! Love the ad talk.

Peggy gave the baby away. Her sister was pregnant when Peggy gave birth, so that baby was Peggy's nephew.

I was paging through the comments and I still don't understand the Bert Peterson character we saw last night, and I don't sense others do either.

Earlier shows had him appear as being an accountant where he could question Campbell's expenses, and now we learn that he must have been a senior account executive but was someone never featured in the show before. I guess he was another Freddy Rumsen but we didn't know existed. This part didn't make any sense.

The birth flashback was interesting. Someone told Dick a little about his past, and he imagined what it probably looked like.

I am still enjoying re-viewing and thinking about the first show and also the info coming from the posts here...some very thoughtful perceptions.

The Stew: she sees Don (Bill) as a yummy sex partner (who wouldn't?) - he sees her as a younger, skinnier, decidedly dimmer Betty. He let her pursue him, doing little on his own. She WAS obviously drunk.

Sal: Seeing the bellboy give him the eye in the elevator (the guy was probably a prostitute) was disconcerting and frustrating to Sal but he used the malfunctioning AC as an excuse to get the BB to his room (even ruminating over his money as if considering what the proper 'tip" would be) and the kid wasted no time going after Sal. What was not expected was the Fire Alarm! What a plot device! Who here can say that was predictable? That is what I love about Mad Men. It does not do what you expect or re-do past ep's ideas.

And the gist is that neither Sal nor Don actually cheated on their wives.

The whole episode was about betrayal (London Fog in the office, unloved Dick as a baby), frustration (Pete's disappointment, Sal's and Don's non-consumations) and SC learning the real definition of "Capitalism" (the Brit's "bigger profits every year" and competition-among-peers philosophy).

Thanks Matt W. and Maddicts!

As for the naysayers...many will probably change their view as the series continues, but some will give up on the show. Mad Men has so many product name brands mentioned it doesn't need to play the rating game, so Weiner and company can do what they want, I hope.

Please keep in mind that everyone is entitled to their opinion whether or not YOU agree with it. Everyone comes away with something different and they are not an idiot because they didn't "see" what you did (or thought you saw). This is a fiction show not fact TV or reality TV, whatever that really is. These are fictional characters. Let's be honest, whether you sign on as "anonymous" or a screen name, this is a board and as such people let it all hang out (sometimes to the extreme) and start blasting others who don't share their views. Anonymity allows and encourages this type of behavior. I for one did not like the Sal tryst with the bellboy on various levels. I just didn't. And I don't care for Don's bed-hopping. However, that does not mean I should stop watching the show, as a few suggest. One can like an aspect or two and dislike another without someone else telling them to "Turn off the set if you don't like it!" Watching people engaged in sex (straight or gay) is a turn-off and boring. I think Mr. Weiner is relying too much on it and not enough on solid dialog and plot. Last night's episode seemed to go nowhere. Also weary of Don's constant flashbacks to his whore mother; this has gotten stale. Perhaps subsequent episodes will be a bit better. I hope so. As in most show, the first couple of seasons are usually the best, the freshest, and the brightest. I don't think MM will be any exception.

I liked the ending. Did you notice that Don "came home from work" after midnight in the story of Sally's birth? Betty saved face by saying that he was tired, yes, but he did get in that car with her to drive her to the hospital, with her suitcase. I think all the suitcases in this episode are a metaphor for all the baggage people possess.

Sally wants to know her father's secrets. She must have heard the story before, and it has become part of her story now. She (obviously) resents the time he spends traveling for work. I predict a drinking/drug problem in her future, foreshadowed last season in Don's office. Her mother finding her independent streak mannish will cause a lot of conflict and heartache.

As far as Don's affair with the stewardess and Sal's with the bellboy, the fire alarm caused those affairs to be aborted. I got the sense that this was Sal's first time with a man, and I don't think he's going to throw off his marriage cloak and sail forth as openly gay now. He was reminded in their meeting with London Fog how important it was for him to appear as a family guy, wasn't he?

I did find this episode didn't flow as smoothly as past seasons', all the sexual references were jarring and a bit distasteful. Maybe that's what we maddicts secretly crave, the chance to get our prude on. LOL

I'm sorry, I don't get why you would be offended if someone tells you to stop watching a show that obviously doesn't have what you're looking for. Don has slept with everyone under the sun since the first episode. Okay, now it's old to you, but it's key to the show. You don't like sex scenes, yet since the first episode, there have been sex scenes. We've all known Sal is gay and this moment would probably come, so I'm not sure why people are so surprised.

Again, there is no anger in this post, just questions. Why watch a show that has all of what you don't like to watch if that's the way the show has been from the start?

You seem to take differing opinions as "blasts" when they are just questions. If you could answer some for me, it sure would help my understanding of those people who watch even though they are offended by the things that have been done since Episode 1.

Thank you, Zabadu! I was about to say the same thing regarding the posters who clutch their pearls at the bellboy scene. I thought it was the best thing about the whole episode. Bryan Batt worked that scene terrifically to keep it from looking at all lewd. It made sense.

It certainly is no more gratuitous than all the examples you listed of the ways women have been portrayed sexually. The first and second seasons gave us twins, a woman being straddled by a man horseback-style, a man jamming his hand up a woman's crotch, at least three topless women in a bedroom scene (albeit, sans bared breasts yes, but still), a chilling rape, and I've not heard so many outrages comments as I have with this scene. Get over yourselves.

* People are bored by the Brits, but I loved how Joan made Moneypenny stew in his own juices. She dug him a hole by offering him that office, and he stepped right in it! She's still got it!

* I wonder if Betty even cares if Don was still sleeping around at this point. It seems like she realized that much like with Sally, Don was coming back home to her.
She also seems so detached from her children that I could see her saying something so snide as "little lesbian" in regards to Sally. She likes her daughter okay now, but I see them competing with each other as Sally grows up.

* Y'all, Duck got canned in the last episode last season. That was made very clear. I didn't expect to see him around.

* I have faith that the writers will explore how Pete and Peggy regard each other after she broke the news last season.

* Don has a crude imagination re. his birth. He must feel like he is disgusting as Dick Whitman.

* The skin of the milk, the octopus, Sal's pen...there's some kind of allusion to bodily fluids and discharge in this ep's script.

One more note. It matters not what you sign on as (screen name or anonymous). Let's be honest, no one knows who anyone here is, be they anonymous or have another name. That is why people flock to these types of boards - anonymity. I mean really, would anyone here sign their real name and town? I doubt it. So, whatever you choose to come here as (name) don't let others bully you off the board simply because THEY don't like your use of "Anonymous" or what you have to say. I think that is where we run into trouble, when we personally attack others as in "If you don't like this or that, don't watch." A better way, might be "I see Don's philandering gets to you, as does Sal's escapade. Could you elaborate further?" Makes for better dialog than "Well if you don't like it, don't watch!" Or inferring someone is an idiot because they don't like to watch gay sex or whatever offends them. Just a thought. Not trying to enrage anyone or tell you how to post (honest) but these boards can get out of hand quickly. I hope season three is NOT the season MM jumps the shark. They never garnered much in the Nielsen ratings, so we shall see.

"If you don't like it, don't watch it" is NOT a personal attack.

"If you don't like it, don't watch it" is NOT a personal attack.

My website: http://ifididnthaveasenseofhumor.blogspot.com/

I missed the first episode of Mad Men on Aug 16th. When will they rerun it?

chatty pattie

The stewardess said they could not smoke while in uniform, not that they could not drink. That was a definite slip by the writers however, because they could neither smoke nor drink while in uniform back then.

GuySmiley - Great observations. Regarding Don as "Dick Whitman": that "remembering" scene was a little crude but real. Don/Dick's mother was a sad prostitute, and I've always thought that somewhere in his screwed up psyche Don/Dick believes that since he is a "whore-child" he is destined to be a whore himself (like a self-fulfilling prophesy). He has a tremendous sense of self loathing whenever he thinks of himself as "Dick Whitman"

As for the missing Duck, we need to keep in mind that he had to leave his pre-SC job in London because of his drinking, and when he started drinking again at the end of last season and had his big blow up, he just reconfirmed to the London company that he didn't have any control over himself.

Zabadu: Just skip it. You aren't getting it even a little bit. Have a nice day.

They have the episode on demand, if you have comcast.

Lookhomewardangel: Fine. You don't want to explain why you watch a show where you don't like the kids, don't like the sex, don't like the cheating, don't like the gay people...then forgive me for not being able to understand why you watch.

Lookhomewardangel: Fine. You don't want to explain why you watch a show where you don't like the kids, don't like the sex, don't like the cheating, don't like the gay people...then forgive me for not being able to understand why you watch.

Last night was the most disgusting show I have ever watched on AMC...I may never tune in again. It was more than I could stand. It was outrageous - morally degrading and ugly. I turned it off within the first ten minutes. Your sponsor should be ashamed to be connected with this irresponsible television program. You know I will never purchase that car ever again. I don't even want to type its name.

I pity our country if this is what the public wants to bring into their homes. The old programs taught good moral behavior and decency. I would have been embarrased if I had watched that show with anyone. I was lucky. No one was home.

I hope you pass this on to your sponsors.

Last night was the most disgusting show I have ever watched on AMC...I may never tune in again. It was more than I could stand. It was outrageous - morally degrading and ugly. I turned it off within the first ten minutes. Your sponsor should be ashamed to be connected with this irresponsible television program. You know I will never purchase that car ever again. I don't even want to type its name.

I pity our country if this is what the public wants to bring into their homes. The old programs taught good moral behavior and decency. I would have been embarrased if I had watched that show with anyone. I was lucky. No one was home.

I hope you pass this on to your sponsors.

I am a new viewer of Madmen. A friend told me about it, and I have been frantically watching Season 1 and 2 on Netflix trying to get ready for last night.

Last night's episode wasn't my favorite, but I think they were just setting the stage for the rest of the season, so I am holding my judgment for a while.

My issue with the scene with Sal is that I feel like a lot of shows rely on the gratuitous shock value, trying to see who can outdo the other just for ratings or press. I think less is more with respect to a lot of these scenes - man/woman,woman/woman,man/man,whatever. They push the envelope just for the sake of doing so. Doesn't make the show or the writing any better. Personally, I found the scene in Season 2 between Sal/Kitty/Ken more interesting.

I am a new viewer of Madmen. A friend told me about it, and I have been frantically watching Season 1 and 2 on Netflix trying to get ready for last night.

Last night's episode wasn't my favorite, but I think they were just setting the stage for the rest of the season, so I am holding my judgment for a while.

My issue with the scene with Sal is that I feel like a lot of shows rely on the gratuitous shock value, trying to see who can outdo the other just for ratings or press. I think less is more with respect to a lot of these scenes - man/woman,woman/woman,man/man,whatever. They push the envelope just for the sake of doing so. Doesn't make the show or the writing any better. Personally, I found the scene in Season 2 between Sal/Kitty/Ken more interesting.

Don hesitated when telling Sally about her birth when he said "I was at work..." and then stopped because he realized that he was not at work but was actually with another woman before he came home to take Betty to the hospital. He stopped talking because he realized how long he has been lying and that he is still in the same cycle since Sally had just picked up the TWA wings and, for a second, Don thought he was caught. He probably realized how close he came to Betty finding out that he had been unfaithful and getting kicked out again. I don't understand where Peggy's sister's baby is (she was pregnant too) if she has Peggy's baby. Or did her sister fake her pregnancy to protect Peggy's reputation?. Or is that baby in the crib not Peggy's but her sister's and her sister just wants her to see her baby to force Peggy to confront her decision?

yikes... I was disappointed in the season opener. Anyone else... just missed the good writing ... it was just off. Sorry

I have mixed feelings about the Season 3 premiere. Sure don't like the new turn that SC seems to be taking under the Brits, but I thought it was funny that Pete and Ken are to share the Head of Accounts job. I hate Pete, so I was glad that he was p.o.'d. Guess Pete and Trudy have gone through some sort of marital counseling, because they did seem to be happier. Maybe the scare of the Cuban Missle Crisis brought them closer together.
I remember from last season that Joan had mentioned her wedding colors would be red and green, because she was planning a wedding around Christmas but "he doesn't know that yet!"
One of my favorite parts was when Joan set up Burt's old office for the new jerk, John, to pacify his ego--and then the boss told him no, that he would have to sit outside. "We've already taken over their company, do we have to go through their pockets as well?" Joan knew damn well that wouldn't sit well with the boss, and John even told the boss that the office for clients to wait was his idea. Way to go, Joanie!!
Something that bothered my husband and myself, was that SC would have paid for Don and Sal to FLY from NYC to Baltimore. They would have most likely gone by train, a cheaper and more common method of transport in 1963. Seemed too set up just to meet the stewardesses. They could have simply met up with them in the restaurant. The one they went to (Hausner's, I think), was truly a Baltimore landmark, though was not nearly as fancy as where they were.
The opening threw me, because when Don was heating up the milk, I assumed that Betty had already had the baby, and that he was heating milk for a bottle. As for the flashback, didn't we learn that Don's real father died/left, and his wife remarried a man who was abusive toward's Don/Dick?
While I do love this show, I wish they wouldn't introduce and then drop characters that you never see again--like the divorced mom and her son Glen, who had a crush on Betty. Also Duck, who seems to be gone, and Jane, who is never seen. Also, where is Kurt (who cut Peggy's hair) and the other whiz-kids who were hired as copywriters and never seen again? I hope that the Barretts will reappear, as well as Pete's bizarre mother, and Sal's wife.
Can't wait to see how the season progresses from here!

They do have an airline account, (North American Aviation?)

Would that be how they got the plane perhaps, part of their deal? free allotment of flights etc?

I loved S3-E1. No problems with it.

I'm not sure what that other post-er was ranting about when he said that Matt Weiner was using the show as a voicebox for his "own political views (?) .

Firsty, I'm damned glad Don saw what he saw through the hotel fire escape window. It's about bloody time. Though Sal was on edge in the airplane afterwards, he probably felt a strange kind of relief, too, I imagine. Don is one cool cat... He knows he has Sal in his back pocket now. They're tacitly "partners in crime" now. But Don is such a Don Juan himself; he can't keep the damn thing in his pocket half the time. This episode very well portrays how a gay man can often find himself "damned if he does/damned if he doesn't".

And do you suppose that a man as good looking (and as amoral) as Don is could have gone all his years without ever running into a homosexual... or being "hit on" himself (and maybe even succumbing)? my experience has shown, not. No way. This ain't Don's first time at the rodeo.

Is it just me, or did that Baltimore hotel seem a little, I dunno, dingy and second-rate for execs of their calibre?

It looks like Joan is even more zoftig now. God knows she wears it beautifully, but I am quite sure that the MM tailors are padding her out a fair deal. That's a lot o' woman! And what does Joan mean when she says "When I get out of here..." ?

That the little blonde stewardess with the Southern accent talks about eating Fritos is, to me, a subtle way of indicating that she might be were Fritos were invented and manufactured: Dallas, Texas.

Lemme see if I have it straight regarding Dick's (Don's) parentage: His natural mother cannot carry a baby to term... so his father takes his seed for gestation to the local town hooker... who dies in childbirth? Dick's mother accepts the child of a whore as her own...?

I've worked for a British firm... there were indeed one or two of my superiors who were as tight-assed as this pair, haha. "I think this place is a gynocracy" one of them muses. Here he has just learned Lesson #1 at Business 101. Cherchez la femme!

Is it true that LONDON FOG was a ghastly misnomer that sounded good to American ears... who didnt understand the REAL Dickensian meaning of the grim phrase?

In many interviews Matt Weiner says that Joan is married when Season 3 starts, although he has not said she married the chest surgery resident. MW also said that Roger did marry Jane.

As for Sal and Don flying First Class to Baltimore, remember TWA was a PPL account, mentioned last season and also when Joan was reading the assignments to Pete and Ken. Therefore those plane tickets would have not cost SC/PPL much.

Hausner's was a landmark in Baltimore in 1963, the place new visitors often were taken for family food. It was darker than shown and noisy. It would be exactly the place a flight crew might select. Sal could well have grown up loving it. Probably that would not be a restaurant Don would select to entertain a client for an impressive and quiet pitch.

The only TWA flight attendant I still know from that era who flew along the East Coast was based in NYC and never had a Remain Over Night (RON) in BAL. Either her crew would return to NYC or fly further south. It is possible The Belvedere was a TWA crew hotel. If so probably SC/PPL would get a discount. It is also possible Sal knew the reputation of that hotel within the Baltimore gay community. Clearly Matt Weiner and his staff dis extensive research.

Wow! First show of the season sure brought some varmints outta the woodwork...

I like to study people's writing styles, the phrases they use, little spelling quirks, etc. (even our grammarian there has a certain consistent mistake in his/her postings) and my opinion is that "somebody" here is posting under at least two different names. Probably to make his or her viewpont seem more viable and popular. Guess who?

Zabadu: That isn't what you're NOT getting, but suffice it to say I suspect we're dealing at cross purposes. Really, it makes no difference (It's just a fictional TV show and really should not be generating so much angst as to someone's opinion or why they do or don't watch it; I mean come on, no one owes another poster an explanation. This is supposed to be fun NOT a didactic contest of wills and such.) So, just enjoy your evening and I'll do the same. Bye now.

I was puzzled and disappointed that we were not shown the resolution of some of the cliffhangers they left us with at the end of last season. For example, it's less than 9 months later, yet both Don and Pete have reconciled with their wives? We left Pete sitting in the dark fingering his rifle after Peggy told him about his child and enduring yet another tantrum from his wife. And where is Duck? He was supposed to be top man after the buy out. Don is back to his old, womanizing ways. Except for the shake up at work, it's like the show is starting over.

Philadelphia: While I don't feel as strongly as you, I do agree to some extent. I was turned off by last night's episode and I just didn't think it had the same magic as previous seasons. I know some here will take offense at this and demand to know why I - or others of a similar opinion - don't just shut up and turn off our sets! Of course, (chuckle) it's only the first episode of season one and I do recall there was a lot of dismay when season two started. Perhaps things will get better or perhaps MM will indeed Jump the Shark. In any event, I don't care whether people continue to watch or not. I don't usually get too excited over these opinions because opinions are neither right nor wrong. They are opinions. Period. MM has been good in the past and I hope it continues. We shall see!

Golly, Philadelphia, just how many BMWs have you bought? Somehow I don't think your local dealership will notice if you never buy another.

Anonymous: Yes, I agree. We can only hope Weiner fills us in later. This episode seemed disjointed and removed from the last episode of season 2. Perhaps it will become clear later on in season 3. If not, so be it.

I'm just so damn glad Mad Men is back. I don't care who kissed who, whose character didn't show up, what loose end from last season isn't yet all tied up nice and fancy in a big bow. MAD MEN IS BACK after 10 long months of no Mad Men.

Thank you to all the Maddicts who caught all the little nuances and lines that I missed. I will be watching tonight for the third time, and I expect to enjoy this viewing just as much, if not more, than I did the first. Plus, we get another new episode next Sunday night!!

One thing's sure: the women's clothing and makeup was even more apropos and colorful and "period" than in previous seasons...

There was ONE thread about Joan's rape last year, and people didn't run from thread to thread saying how horrified they were to see it like they are doing with this so called "homosexual political agenda" nonsense.

There are gay people in the world. Just like there are black people, asian people, people with disabilities, rapists, thieves and drunks.

It appears to me that the only two groups now that people feel free to attack without recrimination are the gays and fat people. Thank god Sal wasn't a fat gay man.

If you think the scene was overdone and gratuitous, I'd love to hear your comments about Don grabbing Bobbie by the crotch, or Roger riding a twin, Betty picking up a stranger and having sex...

Face it folks, you can't get past the fact that it was a same sex couple. Just admit it. It had nothing to do with the writing, the context, or how it was executed. It was because it was two men.

david lincoln brooks:

Don/Dick's parentage is as follows -
Conceived by a young prostitute and farmer Whitman. Since the bio mom died in childbirth, the baby was brought up by farmer Whitman and his wife (that Mrs. Whitman was infertile and therefore accepted the illegitimate love-child was a new piece of information given to us in the last episode). Farmer Whitman was a drunk and is killed by a kick to the head by a mule when Don/Dick is a small child. Mrs. Whitman takes up with another man, but gives birth to a child that was conceived with her husband before he died. This child is Don/Dick's half-brother, Adam. Don/Dick's stepfather of sorts/uncle is a cruel man and abusive to the boy, which leads Don/Dick to abandon the farm and join the army during the Korean War, where he meets the real Don Draper. Whew!

I think the young stewardess reminds me a bit of Carol Lynley, the SEVENTEEN magazine teenaged supermodel who was white-hot in the early 1960's.

I need a thrid viewing of this episode to get everthing. But here's what I've noted so far:

- I think the midwife is who told Don all about what happened. Did you notice that he was imagining it all in his kitchen - with the plaid wallpaper that matched his robe? Of course he didn't witness all that stuff, but I do believe that woman told him all the stoires. She was probably the closest thing he knew to a mother. Perhaps she somehow played into his father's death? I think Don's father Atchibald was attacking her and Don defended her - accidetnally killing him.

- I was shocked most be seeing Don typing. Even in the 80s when I worked as an Admin Asst my boss didn't have a typewriter.

- I noted in the story of the night Sally was born that Don said "it was the middle of the night and I had just gotten home from work." Yeah, work. Right.

- Don's "relationship" with the stewardess was physical only. In past seasons, the women he bedded down were stimulating to him emotionally and he was far more intimate with them. The stewardess was sex only. It was different than wahat we've seen from him before.

- I think Joan is married because she was supposed to be getting married at Christmas.

- I loved Trudy telling Pete not to go to the well because there is no water there! Their relationship surprised me. I think when Peggy rejectedc him with her bombshell he realized hwo good he has it with Trudy and they worked it out. She made a reference to her Dad and the type of business man he is. I hope she has otherwise realized she should cling to her husband not Daddy now. I faulted her for leaving NY in the crisis more than Pete for not going with her. She should've stayed with her husband, not go running to Daddy.

- The Sal scene was one of the hottest scense ever on that show. I was half expecting Sal to say, "yes, please."

People are still up-in-arms about same-sex intimacy on the TV screen? Good Lord, where have I been? Are these complainers broadcasting from a parallel universe frozen in 1956 or something?

Don't like to see two men having sex. This does not make me a bad person. It's a preference like everything is. Period. Too much sex (gay or straight) is boring, especially when graphic. Much better when left primarily to the imagination. Don't like too much violence either (graphic in nature). Somehow, though, I doubt we will see Sal and another guy going at it hot and heavy all season long.

What I like is good dialog and a good story that is solidly played out. Skip the gratuitous sex (gay or straight) and get to the point. Sort of like in real life. Sex is a small part of the equation. So much more out there. Get to the heart of the thing and skip the moaning, groaning, groping, and rolling in the sheets. Ho hum, it's mundane after a while. And even explicit straight sex on screen makes me squirm after a while. Just get on with the story!

Like Don has not had sex in nearly every episode. Pete and Peggy had sex. Joan had sex. Roger had sex with twins. And Jane.

Hetero sex - okay
Homo sex - unacceptable.

The posts are so transparent it burns.

rasputin: It's a preference. Graphic sex or even sex on screen makes some people uncomfortable. It's a preference. If they don't like to watch it doesn't make them bad or stupid. It's a preference like everything else. I wasn't wild about Roger's vomiting scene either. I thought it was done for shock value. Again, a preference. Doesn't mean I am stuck in a time warp of 1956 because I don't care to see people (especially men) having sex on screen. Would prefer not to. And it doesn't mean I or anyone else is homophobic. A preference. Period.

Again, I will admit that too much sex (straight or gay) is not fun to watch. Why are there people here who seem to want to insinuate otherwise (that there are those of us who just hate the gay sex). I don't like gratuitous sex heterosexual or otherwise. No gratuitous violence either. It's a preference. Doesn't make someone wrong because they don't like to watch sexual scenes. Doesn't make them a prude and it doesn't make them homophobic. I didn't dig Roger's vomiting scene either from season one. Thought it was for shock value. Didn't care for it at all. A preference. OK, now I am repeating myself. Enough said (at least for me) on these subjects.

Regarding Peggy's baby: my understanding is that Peggy's sister is raising both her baby and Peggy's baby. In one of the episodes from last season, her sister made Peggy go into the room where the babies (there were 2) were sleeping.

Charmander: Were you present for season 2? Peggy gave away the baby two years ago and told Pete during the finale. Her sister is NOT raising the child.

This site is working very slowly. I have high speed and a new computer and zip fast as lightening every place else but here. You click on something here and it takes forever to come up! Don't know if anyone else is experiencing this but this site has always been a little funky. You hit the submit button once and your posting appears three times. You click on a link and you can wait three minutes for it to load. Tried to register a couple of days ago and was unable to. This site should be overhauled in my opinion. Perhaps they will get it on track in the future.

MAD MEN is all about laying bare a lot of the prim secrets of the Atomic Age.

Frankness is a part of its M.O., of its storytelling vernacular, its tone, its raison-d'etre.

It has a kind of burning, voyeuristic, bare quality to it, in keeping with excellent American theater and film, like BUTTERFIELD 8 or THE CHILDREN'S HOUR or COMING HOME or THE LAST PICTURE SHOW.

MAD MEN is supposed to make you squirm.

Without its uncompromising scenes and allusions, MAD MEN would be little more than a LEAVE IT TO BEAVER episode, or a parody of a CORONET instructional film on MADTV.

I just can't understand the motivation of anyone who'd watch MAD MEN.... if they have inordinately delicate sensibilities which mustn't be ruffled. Why put oneself through all the trouble and tsuris?

In one of the audio commentaries from season 2's DVD set (only nutty Maddicts like me actually watch them), Matt Weiner comments that while some people thought that the sister was raising the baby, the scene with the pregnant sister at the hospital after Peggy's breakdown proves that Peggy gave the baby up.

And, one other thing. It seems that Joan is married (though it hasn't really been confirmed) but if she is, why is she still working at the ad agency 6 months later? I thought the whole point of her getting married is so she could start a new life as a doctor's wife. There's really no need for her to work if her husband is a doctor, right?

In last night's episode It didn't look like she was training a replacement or anything like that, something she could have agreed to stay on for.

I don't WANT Joan to leave because she is one of the most interesting characters on the show, but when she made the comment to Peggy about how she "can't wait to get out of here..." I kind of wondered .....what exactly is stopping her? Unless of course, she isn't married yet.

Lookhomewardangel: I'm having a lot of trouble too!

Anyway, as for people who think MW and his crew have an "agenda," you seriously need to open your mind and become more exposed. We don't want things to get worse. We don't want our entertainment to turn into garbage just to cater to the unenlightened.

Last year, I created a video just to rant about this. Would you agree with it?

Rasputin: Particular posters have stated that they are tired of Don's whore-mother, Don's children, the personal lives of the characters, don't want to see sex, don't want gay-ness, hate the Brits, and only want to see the office stuff.

So tell me, why are they watching Mad Men?

Hanna: I would think that Matt actually giving an interview and telling us Peggy gave up her child plus the uber amount of threads about it last season would have put that particular issue to rest. LaurieB and I used to laugh about it.

rasputin: Oh, well thanks for clearing that up for the rest of us. Chuckle. This isn't really the place for you to psychoanalyze and then question why, or why not, when it comes to someone - or not watching MM. No one owes anyone else an explanation. This is supposed to be fun not Freudian. Opinions are neither right nor wrong. Everyone has one. Why not just sit back, state yours, and leave all the wondering to something really important. Frankly, (not to tweak anyone's feathers here), I wonder why anyone would care why a bunch of total strangers was watching, or not watching, or squirming or not squirming. Gee, if you're down to that level, perhaps it's time to reevaluate things if you catch my drift.

Well, looks like the "Let's You and Me Fight" Brigade is out in force. Usually happens on any chat. Oh wait, I think those are called the trolls. Time to exit stage right. Later, they can blow up the water and leave the pond. Nite all.

this nonsense of not identifying the music has to stop. at least credit it on the web site. Like HBO.

Webitorgal: Agreed. Save it though, because when these comments get to the 200 mark or thereabouts, the "Let;s you and me Fight" Brigade comes out en force and the next 700 postings are people arguing with one another about - of all things - a fictional television show. The trolls are always nearby. Nite.

Webitorgal: I just got accused in another thread of being AMC's shill because I feel so strongly about this rampant anti-gay stuff.

It's remarkable, really it is.

zabadu - yes ma'am, I was present for seasons 1, 2 and the first episode of season 3. Remember the communion scene where Peggy is holding the baby (her baby) while others are taking communion. It is her baby, although we understand she has no emotional attachment to it. She "gave it away" because that is exactly what she did, and her sister is now raising it. Otherwise, why would the writers have included that scene where Peggy goes to her sister's for dinner and both of them make her look in on the babies? I'm sure it was there for a good reason.

Can anyone else confirm about Peggy's baby?

Rasputin: Some people think people with opposing opinions (and can support them) are "looking to fight". Some people feel they can come in and make statements and never have to back them up. And when you can't back up your statements, you yell "troll!!"

Some people who yell the loudest about what they are offended by run away by saying "it's just a tv show"...some people say this is the last they'll say about a subject but just can't stop.

It's sad, it truly is.

zabadu: No offense intended (really) but why don't you just leave? I say this because you keep firmly telling the rest of us to do so (or question our motives for watching if we dare criticize MM, stating over and over you cannot understand WHY on earth we watch if we say we don't like gay sex and all the rest). Thus, if it bothers you that some untoward poster accused you of being "AMC's shill because you feel so strongly about anti-gay sentiments - those were YOUR words, then I will say to you what you have said to so many here and it is...I cannot understand in light of them calling you a shill and your strong feelings about the posters and sentiments here who you deem anti-gay, why on earth you don't just leave and never come back! That is what you keep telling those of us who might not like a scene or two in MM. You keep saying you cannot understand why we watch at all! Well, why do you post at all in view of these things? (Rhetorical)

I hope you get my point but I am not going to hold my breath. OK, nite for the final time.

Zabadu: God, you're a twit!

Because I LIKE Mad Men. There are enough people here who "get it". Just because you don't doesn't mean those who do should leave or stop posting.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm just amazed at what the people with the anti-gay agendas will say to try and get their message across.

You have said in numerous posts that you do not like anything anymore except the office scenes, so yeah, call me stupid, but I can't figure out why you'd watch other than to complain.

You keep saying you're done talking to me, but you never are...

Charmanger:
http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/2008/11/matthew-weiner-interview-part-2.php

Episode 13: "Meditations in an Emergency": Duck's plan backfires at the merger meeting; Peggy tells Pete she gave away their baby; Don learns Betty is pregnant.

MadisonAvenue: Name calling is so unbecoming to you.

What's with all the hostility? Oh wait, I was here last year and it went on all the time. I guess I forgot. Keep telling yourselves, "It's merely a cable network show, it's merely a cable network show..." Nothing to get your undies in a bundle over! Just popped into say I did not care for last night's episode. It was not very good. Hope the rest of the season is better. I guess it remains to be seen.

Charmander: Don't know if anyone answered this (I was wading through the animosity) but Peggy did indeed give her baby up for adoption. When Peggy went to her sister's house, it was her nephews she was seeing in the crib, not her baby. She explained to Pete at the end of last season that she had his baby and then gave it up to a good family.

Great episode. Don proves that he is still a dog. Pete is still selfishly ambitiouss. And talk about saved by the bell!

Charmander: and one more thread:
http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/10/confessions-con.php

Hey folks, let's not get snarky on one another. That ruined the boards last season to a certain extent. I hope Mad Men improves in season 3 as it goes along. Didn't like last night's episode but it was just the first one of the new season. For those who did see the last two seasons (as I did) you might want to re-watch them; one can forget the plots and subplots as time goes by!

rasputin: I remember Lynley. She was indeed a presence back then. Although, the stewardess reminded me more of the Poor Man's Betty Draper than Lynley. Kind of a BD-knock off if you will.

It seems pretty clear who is yelling the loudest... at nearly everyone...

Up until a couple of weeks ago, this was a really pleasant, respectful place to visit. People had varied opinions, often disagreed, but it was quite civil. Those were the days...

Let's not get snarky, yet you call me a twit. Hmmm...

People can't come in and call gay people sick, degenerates and pretend they are aghast at "all" of the sex (but meaning just the gay sex) and not expect some reaction.

MsFabulous: Actually, I was here last season and things got fairly snarky, and sometimes downright scary! I remember some absolute threats by a couple of posters against one another that got way out of hand. I think when an episode is talked to the limit (after a while, there is little else to say about it) then the sandbox squabbles seem to begin. Each poster involved wants the last word and no one is willing to yield; someone always wants the last word and will not rest until they get it. To me, when I feel myself getting sucked into one of these squabbles, I turn off my computer and walk away. It's really the best thing. I mean, this is not life and death, or shouldn't be. People just don't know when to say enough and go have a drink or watch some TV or do a load of wash. Which reminds me, I had better do a load now!

Gee, I guess you're talking about me. It was hard to tell, but I guessed anyway.

Maybe if you guys would venture an opinion, the talk could go in a different direction. But passing judgment seems more likely...

Zabadu: I beg you pardon, I DID not call you anything! Come on already, be sure you are reading the correct posting before accusing someone of this. If you look at past boards, you will see that I have been MadisonAvenue342 (if they are still here). So sorry if I offended you, but lets get our postings and posters straight, shall we please! Time for me to do that load of wash now.

…..webitorgal…..Great rant! I see you have several, and will check them out later. I was ranting last year about this exact same thing, and also cited the movie Idiocracy a few times.

I wish I could comment on the season premiere…..My idiot husband talked the entire hour, we ended up quarrelling because of it (pretty sure he did it deliberately), so all I got was a bunch of “flashcard” impressions. Pretty hacked off about it, and will try to catch the hot buzz everyone’s talking (or fighting) about tonight.

The best “flashcards” were Pete and his crazy dance and pouting face, Ken and his happy-go-lucky body language, and poor Sal’s face as Don Draper appeared at the window to his room. He was freaking out so hard!

I predicted last week Don was going to lay one of those “Don-isms” on Sal – like the one he laid on Peggy in the mental hospital – “Move forward…..”

.....BTW, this site is terrible.....I can barely get on here, let alone scroll around or post. It dies like the second I open it.

Is anyone else having technical problems with this site?

Zabadu: OK, don't know where my posting went. I beg your pardon, I was NOT singling you out! Where did you get that? I also NEVER called you a twit? Huh? Please be sure you are reading the correct post and poster before letting your fingers do your talking. It might be time to walk away. It's easy to get your dander up and say things you may later wish you hadn't. Just saying. Again, what the heck happened to my first posting addressing this? Oh well.

My mistake, MadisonAvenue342; I did confuse you with a very similar poster. My apologies to you.

This site is indeed terrible! It either deletes my posting or posts it numerous times, or cuts me off! This happened last season as well. Hello AMC or whomever administrates this site?!

Zabadu: No problem. You say it was a similar poster. I don't see anyone else here with the name MadisonAvenue342 but no matter. These boards have so many names it can get confusing.

Yes Dusty, you're right! It is RDJ2, you can hear it on You Tube, MM Theme.

If you look up a bit, there is a poster named just plain MadisonAvenue - you should be able to spot it - it says

By MadisonAvenue on August 17, 2009 9:53 PM

Zabadu: God, you're a twit!

There are several other posts by this person, so forgive me, you came in right after and I confused the two.

Corrections Dusty RJD2, again you're right.

Zabadue: Yes, I see it. Again no problem.

Dry Manhattan: Thanks :)

Definitions of "shock value":

A character saying that they are going to "cut his dick off".

A mother calls her daughter a "little lesbian".

Showing someone putting his or her hands down the pants of another person (male or female).

A woman turning to a man sitting on a bed with her hands covering her breasts.

All in the first 15 minutes of a show that received great hype and most certainly had many new viewers.

I am sure that the execs at AMC would trade having a larger audience for allowing Wiener to have his "artistic integrity" if toning down the shock value would help retain some new viewers.

TV is all about ratings! If the ratings do not improve this season, this show is dead. Especially after all of the hype.

BMW is not going to pay the advertising costs of this show for the same 1.5 million viewers every week.

Low ratings have killed many great TV shows.

My opinion is that toning down some of this shock value stuff will bring in new viewers.

It is always about money.....

madison avenue; and zabadu:

"She explained to Pete at the end of last season that she had his baby and then gave it up to a good family."

Nope. She didn't say that. She said to Pete that she had his baby and that she "gave it away". No mention of good family or adoption or anything.

Have you got anything else? I'm not convinced that that her sister is not raising her baby, simply because it appears that she is.

"Low ratings have killed many great TV shows. "

Very true, but I was under the impression that Mad Men has pretty high ratings, so what is your point exactly? The ratings have increased each season......but your posts indicate that somehow Mad Men is in danger of being canceled because nobody's watching.

1. Wish the producers would post the music credits with the cast credits. Echoing others.....what's playing at the end of the newest episode?
2. Nitpicking.....Trudy comes in the door of Pete's office with a purse over her arm. Next frame, it's not there. Tsk tsk producers. People like me, with no life, love to catch the little stuff and for a series that pays as much attention to detail as this one does, this miss was easy to spot.

Let's pray our shrinking violets here don't catch any re-runs of QUEER AS FOLK....

While I don't think that any aspects of the storyline were presented purely for "shock value" - they always have a purpose as past MM history shows - I think that "shocking" scenes will bring in more viewers, not fewer. Take HBO's "TrueBlood" for example - the more "gratuitous nudity" that show has, the more viewers. While Mad Men isn't the same type of show, and probably doesn't have the same demographics of viewers, I very much doubt that some more provocative storylines will hinder the show's ratings, it will probably increase them.

hanna, zabadu, madisonave and others: You've changed my mind.

We'll I've done a little investigating and in an interview with a journalist from the Chicago Tribune, Matthew Weiner unequivocally states that Peggy's baby was given up for adoption.

I was wrong. Guess I just wanted to have a storyline involving Trudy finding out about that baby.....which still could happen.

Haven't seen anyone comment on Betty's baby's daddy yet.
I was thinking that possibly the Dad will be her quick and dirty bar guy - didn't appear from that episode last season, that he stopped in the men's room to purchase a condom before taking her into the office on the couch. So I was thinking that could be a good twist- of course there was no DNA back then. It would have to be something where the baby is born ill and is not able to have a blood transfusion from either Betty or Don since Baby has its real daddy's blood type. This would then be an opportunity for Betty to tip over the edge in a real depression OOOORRRR... I heard that Betty may not be back next season. She may die in childbirth leaving Don to raise a child that is not his.....oh how history could repeat itself !!!

Maybe I'll get an answer on this thread. In the season opening episode "Out of Town", at long last we see Sal with a coveted opportunity with a bellboy at the Belvedere. As he reciprocates the advances in anguished excitement, there is a point where the bellboy is evidently opening his trousers, when Sal says, "Airplane". Am I dense, or what am I missing here? Does anyone know the significance of the word spoken at this particular moment? Certain things come to mind, but it struck me as unusual. Can someone please enlighten me?

Lots of things come to mind; but if the bellboy opened the hanger maybe Sal was just letting him know when he found the plane and apparently it was ready for take off ??????

Even after watching the show three times, I am still conflicted about it, but am determined not to give it up.

Small things (of no consequence) that I noticed:

The stewardess does remember Carol Lynley, and also Tuesday Weld in her actions.

Pete’s little victory dance was a hoot. I haven’t seen a scene like that since William Devane (In Knots Landing) burst into his hotel room after having been elected Senator and smacked his hands saying, gleefully, “I’m a member of The Club”!

I think Moneypenny looks MUICH too much like Pete. At first, I thought it was Pete assuming a British accent to be funny!

WAS the comment about his birthday really a line? Perhaps that is what brought on the flashbacks or the memories of what had been related to him as a child. On the other hand, it would seem that either Betty or Sally would have mentioned his being away on his birthday.

Roger is just so funny! “Oh, THAT meeting. (Pausing) It wasn’t easy!”

At least life is back to normal and we have shorter count-downs until the next showl.

Ciao for now.

Marie - Don has to be the baby daddy, from the time they had sex on the floor at her father's house. Although she was tempted to have an affair with stableboy Aurthur, she remained faithful to Don (she didn't want to sink to his level). It wasn't until after she found out she was pregnant that she had the "now we're even" one night stand with the guy at the bar (all in the same ep, the season 2 finale). It's no mystery.

Like many of the posters here and for many of the same reasons, I was very disappointed by this show.
One thing that bothered me that other posters did not mention was the issue that one third of the staff was let go. I worked for Ogilvy and Mather (a prestigious agency run by an Englishman) in the 60's.
Ad agencies would never significantly reduce their staff unless they lost one or more big accounts. Agencies were/are a people business and clients expected full service. If their contacts were gone or they saw many empty offices when they visited, they would wonder if the agency was financially healthy and then think about switching accounts. They would also think about switching accounts if an agency was taken over.
Also if a client expressed dissatisfaction about sales results like London Fog did, agency people would immediately do research and/or develop new creative. They would also not be dismissive of the son who will be taking over the company. When the son mentioned new lines of business, they would have jumped on it and said they could develop a new campaign and help make these businesses successful.
Weiner may be brilliant but he does not understand the business of advertising.

#1 - Of course, the word should have been “resemble”Carol Lynley!

#2 - To avoid the slowness of the site, I went to Appleworks and typed a document at my own speed, and in Edit I Copied and Pasted it into the section on the Forum set up for comments. It worked!!! Maybe this will help some of you.

Charmander:

I did think the idea of Trudy finding out about Pete/Peggy/baby would happen. (if anyone has spoilers please don't post).

The reason is, everyone remembers at the very end last season, Pete and the rifle. I think some people thought it was gratuitous guy locker room kind of thing but myself I thought it was very telling. After Pete had to be humiliated in an earlier episode at the clinic forced to do his business, he later found out the problem is not him. But here, after the emotion of Peggy's confession subsided, he found a validation. Notice he didn't chase Peggy out of the building in a fit. He instead celebrated his own self and sat there drunk, prideful and phallic. Total Pete.

That being said, after the initial selfishness, given his family issues about the adoption argument I would have thought Pete would do everything he can to get his offspring back. Again not out of love, but out of ego.

Now on the other hand, again what makes all of this great, is that just because we didn't see it here doesn't mean it won't happen. So you're right, it can still happen, and happen at any time.

It can be major, or it could be something simple offhand like Pete being drunk and he ends up telling Trudy out of nowhere. Wanna talk shock value? What if they're in pillow talk and Pete starts being a dumb drunk guy and tells her. That's a total MM thing to have happen. Or, another bad argument between those two and he uses that info as a weapon to hurt her.

Or they could go the other direction and just let the entire thing go altogether with no resolution. That's what people do sometimes, pretend things didn't happen and it's over. Don to Peggy in the hospital, "this never happened". Maybe that's how they'll handle it. Who knows.

Greg - I love it! - "Drunk, prideful,and phallic" Funny. I am anxious to see how Pete deals with the idea of his baby being out there somewhere. I can totally see him bringing up the baby in a big fight with Trudy if their marriage goes south. There are so many loose ends from last season's finale that they haven't dealt with yet, and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

For Greg: Wow! Your "OK Gang" said everything I wanted to say and more... I was cheering! Thanks. And for Marie, I had a passing thought last night about the babys paternity as well...

…..This is all random and trivial (NOT the uber-intellectual posts preceding this), but that was definitely the shortest hour of Mad Men yet. Probably something to do with making us wait TEN MONTHS to see it! Seems like it should have been twice as long.

And, wow, I can’t believe there are THIS many heated posts and battles on all these threads {:( about such a short scene involving Sal, where not that much really happens. I mean, Sal got a little validation, finally, but nothing really happened!

We know Sal is gay, and we’ve been told he is not coming out of the closet (at least for now), but it’s not unexpected to see something about his inner life at some point. Some people I think hoped that Sal might find at least a little happiness in that department, whether he involved the marriage to Kitty or not.

It breaks my heart (as always) to see Sal, who is basically such a sweetheart, so terrified and pinned like a butterfly and carrying around other peoples’ scary baggage about his secret life. Like a person doesn’t have a right to be a person, or he is in some kind of prison, or something. Of all the people on there, it seems like he deserves to be happy the most, like Freddy, just out of the private suffering. Poor Sal - his face when the fire alarm went off!

Sal looked so stricken when Draper said to him on the plane, “I want you to be absolutely honest….” Loved how Draper advised Sal - in “code” to “Limit your exposure.” Very discreet, and so Donald Draper.

Also, it seemed wrong somehow that someone seemingly so much younger than Sal (that bell hop) was so confident about his inner life, and poor Sal, who is so distinguished and probably the most poised and gentlemanly of all of them, was like the young maiden of the scene. Almost makes me wish he could have had that romance with Ken. He really had a real crush on Ken.

The dinner conversation, and made-up identities, at Hauser’s (sp?) was entertaining. That part about Draper going places and ending up where he’s already been echoed something I wrote about him at the end of last season. People do that – take the same roads over and over.

The phonograph in Pete’s office, as well as the new artwork, was fun, as are the various new pieces here and there (suit of armor in Lane’s office, ant farm).

Trudy is WAY too good to Pete. She really coddles him, and I’d have to say at this point he is lucky to have her. She represents the social grace he doesn’t really have, and she has the connections he needs in life, and she knows how to navigate the whole thing. She is really his “better half.”

Ken is one of those people to whom things seem to just come easily without much effort, and poor Pete has to fight tooth and nail for every “step forward” and validation. Still not completely, totally sure why Ken ended up with half the promotion, but there are a LOT of accounts, and it’s a great twist. And yes, Pete is good at advertising, and deserves at least half the opportunity.

Can’t say what I think about Bert’s new artwork!! Very “Bert,” though, and pretty funny.

The longer hair on Pete and Draper was interesting, and expected I guess.

Betty’s nails are back to being shorter, and back to pale pink. Sure that’s symbolic of the whole “nesting” phase. At least Draper is being nice to her, even if he is cheating. They still have that blasted teal velvet headboard and bedroom curtains.

Loving that the ads were so short – thank you, powers-that-be for that. (Was that really 47 minutes, or whatever they said?)

The BMW tie-ins with the various Mad Men scenes about various technology were really entertaining, and I’m glad I got them on the DVR. Can’t say I’ve ever actually enjoyed many commercials as entertainment before. Very apropos.

Lane Pryce is crotchety, cold and ominous. It’s hilarious that Ken isn’t phased by him one bit. I don’t think Ken is phased by anything! Did anyone calculate what Ken is making now? “21” what?? Last we checked, he was making $300 a week. That’s about a $500 a month raise…..no?

Joan’s various interactions with Mr. Hooker is fun, and he is a great addition to the cast.

Always love seeing the not-so-big pool of character actors parading through this series. I’ve seen a lot of them other things, and finding them here makes me even more fond of them. That guy Hooker/Moneypenny (Ryan Cartwright) is SOOOOO funny. He has been on Bones a bunch of times, and I love him there too. And the ditzy stewardess, and the elder head of London Fog.

Also, what is up with yet ANOTHER Bobby?? What was wrong with the LAST Bobby? I liked him…..he had great chemistry with his father.

Lastly (at least this viewing), it was pretty great the way Betty rescued Don from his aborted attempt at lying about Sally’s birth day. She really threw him a bone there (jerk).

Judging by the previews of the next couple of episodes, there is much more to come, it all looks very interesting, and I hope we can all get back to the great conversations that we all used to have on this forum.

Ok Hanna you totally have me thinking now per your last post about Betty and the guy at the bar. you said:

Although she was tempted to have an affair with Aurthur, she remained faithful to Don (she didn't want to sink to his level). It wasn't until after she found out she was pregnant that she had the "now we're even" one night stand with the guy at the bar

See that's making think that Betty only decided to go ahead and do what she did, like you said after she just found out she was pregnant; as in, "this may be my last chance".

Remember in the hallway of the hotel, the stew says to Don she's engaged, but, "you might be my last chance" And beside that there's already a parallel with Betty with her.

What do you folks think? Neat little nugget the MM gang left? Or, am I thinking too much?

Hi Dry! I agree about Trudy being Pete's better half. He doesn't really deserve her, but then she's kind of perfect for him. He's such a whiny baby about things that he needs to be coddled (or have his ego stroked, as Greg would point out). Maybe she's helped create that monster so she'll be valuable to him, but he should be grateful that she has such a sweet, understanding lady for a wife.

Greg - Totally agree. She spent all that time after learning about Don's affair stewing about infidelity. She even tested her friends (Aurther and BethAnne) to see if they would be faithful to their spouses. I think she was really considering divorcing Don (remember the conversation with her divorcee neighbor) up until the point where she learned she was pregnant. At that point she was trapped. She had to stay with Don. The boink at the bar was her way of evening the scores with Don before she went back to him.

Elare, perhps I'm wrong, but I think the word "Airplane" spoken by Sal refers to the bellboy looking at his shirt and noticing a large ink splotch below the pocket as he is undressing Sal. Many if not most people used fountain pens in '63, and pressurized aircraft cabins sometimes played havoc with thise pens.

And Greg - spot on again in your analysis re Pete/Trudy/baby etc.

…..Hi hanna (rrr this site).....

About Betty and Arthur…..There was some chemistry between Arthur and Sara Beth from the beginning of the three mutual acquaintances.

Because of that dynamic twist, I always felt that Betty held herself a little bit away from both of them. Not jealously, exactly, but something “Nordic,” or aloof.

Betty’s never had to compete for anything, and I think she looked down on Arthur a little, however perceptive he was, and possibly Sara Beth as well.

I always figured that was a big reason she didn’t let herself be tempted but, instead, chose to act out her anger toward Draper by moving Arthur and Sara Beth around like chess pieces.

Just one idea, however undeveloped.

Dry - She was aloof with Aurthur (I loved her excuse of being Nordic when he told her she was sad), and I think she was trying to be the faithful wife all last season to show that it was possible in the wake of Don's infidelity, to try to hold the moral ground above him and everyone else (even Sara Beth - thank you, I could not remember her name). Betty is nothing if not the queen of passive aggression.

So, after the story line of Don Draper standing in the ocean being reborn and one with the universe, apologizing to Betty for not respecting her... the whole arch of last season yada yada, the writers pull a Tony/Carmella Soprano, womanizer, womanizer. Oh, wait a minute Matt Weiner decided to cut and paste.
I'm a fan but, I get the feeling that no matter how original the production, there is a trend to go edgy. Like edgy in writing for T.V. is new. Weiner said he is more concerned with how the story is told rather than the story. Please, you've told this story and told this story and told this story. However well, we know the story. Please something new for this "man of mystery."

It seemed alittle odd that Pete seemed to snap back to his old whiney self when the last we saw him, Peggy had delivered her news of the son they conceived, and he was seated in his office with the rifle. That seemed quite forgotten.

On the plus side, I was delighted to see Don Draper back to his old womanizing self. Much too predictable that he would stay true to child/woman Betty who seems complacent to birth a baby she wanted to terminate at the end of last season.

Will the British connection usher in the Beatles/Youth Quake movement to SC? Bangs again for Peggy and the end of girdles for the ladies of the secretarial pool?

Did anyone else notice that Joan was a little heavier? I only noticed this in one scene, when there was a side view of her torso. Is she pregnant? Did she stop wearing a girdle?

I'm sorry, I just didn't love it. I've watched every episode of Seasons 1 and 2, often more than once, and I'm completely absorbed even on a third viewing and always find something new. Not so with this episode. Don't know why. Just doesn't seem like Weiner's writing is holding up.
By the way, I found a way around the slow typing glitch. Just type in notepad and then cut and paste your comment. It works.

60s chick: People thought that about last season's L.A. episode. The writer knows what he's doing - you just have to wait to see it all come together.

I must be in the minority because I really enjoyed this episode. It was more in line with the feel of Season One, without the strangeness of Don's California experience - which seemed off-track.

I'm a little surprised that so much has been said about the 'sex' scene with Sal, especially since there was no sex. Poor guy. So close, yet so far.

What did you all think of the clothing, especially the women's clothing? I loved the tweedy suit Trudy wore when she stopped by Pete's office. It looked expensive -- maybe Chanel? I don't like the dresses Peggy wore. They make her look like a nun.

You aren't in the minority Roger. Lots of us like the episode and did compare it to the California one. Weiner always seems to have a purpose to these odd duck shows....

What a great start to the season! I cant wait for more ad campaigns and flashbacks...how did Dick manage to stay "married" to Don's wife when he got home from Korea?...talk about smooth!

Here's to a Martini in your hand, a Lucky Strike in your lips and a stewardess in your lap!

First time watching MM was the marathon a couple of weeks back. TIVO'd the epies and have been catching up ever since. I'm hooked! Minutia is huge in this show, and watching twice can be helpful if you're not one to pick up on obscurities.

Hiya, Dry! Great to see you. Wondered where you had been. Sounds like the hubby is jealous of your affair with DD? ;)

I think those of us who didn't like it are in the minority. I've seen every episode at least 2, probably 3 times each. Every time I watch one, I pick up something I didn't the first time around. Not so with this one, except maybe the stupid knight's armor in the corner of one of the Brit's offices. It hit me then what other posters meant about those characters being cartoonized. It seemed to really lack the depth of other episodes. This is the first one to disappoint. I hope the rest of the season has the kind of layering that I've come to know and less obvious shock. I'm not talking about Sal, either, as I knew that was coming, and I think most people who had been coming around here or out reading news stories here and there already knew.

Yes, there have been a few people expressing very conservative, right wing views on that aspect of the show. While I don't agree with them, the're entitled to their opinions and feelings as much as I am, and shouldn't be ridiculed or taunted for it. It's grown a bit uncivil around here, and also those of us who disliked the show for other reasons are being lumped by some along with the right wingers. It's made it somewhat unpleasant to visit and not conducive to intelligent discussion.

No one is going to change the way anyone felt when they watched the episode.

No one should try to.

It would be nice if we could all share our thoughts in a civil manner without picking people's statements apart looking for motives. The only motive any one has here is to talk about a show. Let's make it pleasant, shall we?

On another not, I was thinking in reading some of the comments about Pete and Trudy, and someone here months ago calling Mona Roger's "moral compass." Anyone think of Pete and Trudy as a young version of Roger and Mona?

And to me, the reconciliation is simple and what I expected: Peggy shattered her myth, and Pete got on with his life with what he has: a trophy wife with the right background.

Sal, Sal, you're my gal!

He's my favorite, for complicated reasons. Back then, though gays were discriminated against, Liberace reigned supreme, and two-man comedy teams/singing duos/dancing partners (Gene Kelly and Frank Sinatra?) were considered acceptable. Now they'd be seen as flaming faggotry. Is this why Sal's vague lisp and invisible velvet smoking jacket pass without comment? (But the elevator boy's gaydar was working just fine.)

I was so happy he was finally getting some action - and his overwhelming surprise ("you mean. . . he KNOWS???") was touching. But I wonder if the writers are going to keep playing cruel games with him, never allowing him any gratification or emotional/sexual release. He may frantically try to re-establish his place in the closet by getting his wife (whatsename) pregnant. So long as his mother gets out of the way. Poor Sal, color him (or them) blue.

Charmander: I think the issue of Peggy's baby will not come up again. I don't think Weiner will have her hunting for the baby, nor will Pete. That particular story line is, I think, a done deal. And really, many adoptions end up the way Peggy's baby's did. The baby is adopted and that's the end of the story. I suppose Weiner could have the baby - as a grown individual - looking for Peggy or Pete (circa: early eighties), but I doubt the series will last that long (20 year span) for him to do so.

MsFabulous - if calling a homophobe a homophobe is "ridiculing and taunting", then bigotry will never go away.

It isn't an opinion to be a bigot. It's hatred and it must be stopped.

MsFabulous: I totally agree that there is no reason for anyone to get snarky and pick apart another's post because everyone has their own feelings on any given episode. It's not up to others to try and change their minds. I don't know why people spend endless postings trying to do just that! I was on the boards here in Seasons 1 and 2, and things got fairly dicey at times. I always maintain that when one feels themselves being drawn into the "snarkiness," it's probably best to get off the site for a while and go do something else.

As for Season 2, episode 1, uh, well, I was unimpressed and thought it dragged a bit. Also (dare I say this) I have always liked the Pete character to some extent because he really let's it all hang out and doesn't mince words for the most part. I think he is frustrated at SC. My suggestion to him (ha, ha) is to look elsewhere (another agency) to see if he might be a better fit there. Or better still, he seems the type who, if he had the money, might start his own agency. I think much of his frustration makes him the way he is and really, that move on the Brit's part to pit him against Ken, that can in real life, be totally counter-productive. And those Brits. I don't care for them at all.

But it isn't stopped with more name calling. My point is that if they're to go away, we need to ignore them and set a better example. And no, calling a homophobe a homophobe isn't ridicule or taunting, but is it necessary? Does it get anywhere? Does it add anything positive to the discussion?

What are we here to talk about? Th show or them?

On the clothing, I was kind of surprised to see Peggy's look continue to be so drab. Flashy would never be her style, but she's in awfully dark colors for spring. I love the colors they're picking for Joan... as having freshly re-donned the bottled red (after working hard to get years of black out) I'm very inspired by the colors and her style. While she's not my style at all, I always like to check out what Hildy wears. She's always very well put together, often some interesting colors and not too stuffy, but not casual, either. She's one of few who wears 2-3 piece outfits instead of dresses. I loved Trudy's pink tweed (I have something similar) and hat. Big bold buttons seem to be coming into prominence (the tweed, Joan's red dress) and I like that as well.

BeenThere: Oh my gosh, you said you thought Peggy looked like a nun! I said that on a couple of occasions in Seasons 1 and 2 and I swear, if a few Peggy fans had known where I live I would have had a hit put out on me! I have never liked the Peggy character particularly or her clothing. Just never did. Thought Betty very stylish, and Joan, and a few of the other gals, but never Peggy. I also never understood what Pete saw in her when he had Trudy at home. Trudy is stylish and attractive. Peggy, well, rather plain, not at all stylish, and I can never tell whether she thinks she is really confident, or suffering a huge inferiority complex. OK, people, this is just an opinion on a fictional character not a REAL person. Nothing against the actress personally who plays Peggy. Just wanted to state that for the record.

Ok, as for a premiere, I wasn't very impressed. Sure they had the 'Don has another one-night stand' moment and the homosexual kiss to get people talking, but that was about it. I would have liked to see a bit more introduction to the new cast members and who they are. And where is Duck? Isn't he the new Pres of SC? And what happened with Pete not already being the head of accts? Maybe this will come out in future episodes, but I was confused. I also feel that Pete's rants are getting old and sort of annoying. Back to Don's indiscretion... jesus, he only took less than nine months to go back to his old ways. I'm a little pissed off that he still has no respect for his wife.

Also, not enough Joan!!

It might just be better if everyone got off the fact that Sal is a homosexual. He is on the show. The actor who portrays him is in real life and proud of it. I am glad he is comfortable in his own skin. That makes life easier. He does a good job with the character, too. It might be time to move away from the endless debates and semantics and move on where this is concerned. It's like when everyone debated (for something like 1800 postings) Peggy's baby. After a while there is nothing more to say on the subject. Any subject. And when it's been discussed into the ground is usually when tempers flare, heated words are exchanged and the boards become one big bubbling cauldron of angry posters. That's counter productive. Mad Men is a fictional show full of interesting characters that while, mimicking much of real life, the story lines should not be taken so seriously but instead, as entertainment which is what was originally intended.

Fred2: I always thought they over-padded Joan. She wears a large amount of padding under her clothing and it looks odd, I always thought. You wondered if she might be pregnant. I don't think so, but Betty's pregnant and you don't see the wardrobe department making her look positively Teutonic. They just went overboard with Joan's padding.

Dissent and discussion is how hatred of other segments of our fellow man can be eradicated. When you sit idly by and do nothing, you are condoning the behavior of people who hate based on race, creed, color or sex.

I can't sit idly by. If that makes you hate me, there's nothing I can do about that. But I believe everyone deserves the right to privacy in their bedrooms and the right to have the same thing everyone else has.

Sandy: Thanks for trying to do something about the slowness of this site. It's as though chiseling out a post on a stone tablet would be faster! I know last season there were a few problems but this is the worst!

Yes, to everyone who states the clothing was great (sans Peggy's look) is right. I think the clothing back in those days had more style and flare and people actually dressed-up (and not just for special occasions). Women always wore white gloves (or gloves period), men wore hats, and there was a certain elegance about apparel that is sadly lacking in today's society. A great many people go to functions in sweats, flip-flops, and baggy clothing that looks sloppy and ill-fitting.
The fifties and sixties were, for the most part, quite stylish where clothing was concerned. People actually cared about how they looked!

An earlier post-er suggested the bellboy might be a prostitute.

Gee, I sure didn't get that.

I just think he was a shrewd young man with excellent gaydar.

Trudy, when she comes to the office, wears a lipstick-- a sort of opaque, greasepaint-based thing in a very appropriate color for that year-- a kind of lilac (!)

I'll bet no-one has worn a lipstick of that shade and consistency after, say 1967.

Re: Peggy
I don't know about anyone else but I think her hat is ugly. Something that her married sister might wear. But then all my taste is in my mouth, as my wife tells me.

The difference between last season and this one as far as Don's Dalliances goes is that Shelly's a one-night stand. Bobbie, Rachel and Midge were long-term. "She meant nothing to me! Nothing!" as the phrase goes.

Of course then there's the knife in the heart line, "But she reminded me of you."

rasputin: I think Trudy looks great. Women wore more lipstick back then, at least the young ones, like Trudy. Since I don't have statistics on what shades were popular in 1963, couldn't say who wore the shade you mentioned. Women however, did wear heavier lipstick all through the sixties up until toward the very end of that decade. I don't see many young ones wearing much of it today. More lip gloss than the other.

…..The Jet Set is a good example of differing opinions. Some people hated it. However, being (one of apparently few) born in California and viewing the wide, wondrous East Coast as mysterious and foreign, I kind of loved it, even if they were a bunch of crazy freaks! {:)

I think it’s important to separate the gay rights issue from the REST of the actual episode we all saw.

No one is sitting idly by here, I don’t think, but I do look at it this way:

Does it honestly serve the LGBT community better if you wow the “haters” and “bigots” with an amazing, compelling argument, or if you heatedly and endlessly sling the same mud back in their faces?

How much better for the gay community if Perez Hilton would have stood up in a really credible way for gay rights AND WON EVEN MORE PEOPLE OVER, rather than going straight to the name-calling? He is the one who got criticized there. Who did that serve?

Feminist and civil rights weren’t won through warfare.

They were won in spite of it.

Those wars were won with hard, honest peaceful work and protests, and thoughtful, emotionally-charged but intelligent words.

(Okay, where is that shield…. )

Anyway, getting on to the REST of Episode 1, Season 3, I recall Weiner stating somewhere that he wasn't going to d the Kennedy Assassination because it had been done to death. Amen to that, but here were in 1963. I wonder if he changed his mind about this. Originally, I thought he was going to move into 1964 (leaving 63 in the dust) but I guess not. I guess we shall see what transpires.

Although I didn't care much for Episode 1, I will stick with it. Actually, it was the opening scene that really turned me off. I watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 and still didn't entirely get it. I know Don is really Dick but at this point, it seems to not make much difference. Doesn't really matter. In the end, I think Mad Men is a sophisticated soap opera that is very watch-able. I am hoping Episode 2 is more to my liking.

Well, I'm sorry Dry, if my words are not intelligent enough for you. I'm not a professional crusader. I'm just a person who dislikes racists, bigots and have to say something.

I, in fact, was the one that was called the most names. I don't deny calling a homophobe a homophobe. You call what happened with Sal "sick and deviant", I'm gonna call you what you are.

And obviously you don't remember all the civil rights riots. I'd say that many people would have called that warfare back in the day. There were as many riots as there were "peaceful works". Do you not remember fire hoses used against them? Maybe our history books were different from yours.

…..I did NOT say any such thing, nor would I ever.

Stop putting words into peoples’ mouths just to give yourself something to brawl about.

I did not mean to say you said that. Someone else did. "You" was used as a "if you say that, I'll say this". I'm sorry it was misunderstood.

Does anyone here have anything to discuss other than the Sal thing? I hope so. As I stated on another board here I am of an age where being a crusading fighter of social injustice on any particular issue (especially here on the AMC message boards!) doesn't interest me. Sal is gay. Woo-hoo. The actor who plays him is gay. Woo-hoo again. Homophobes have existed forever and will continue to exist. Woo-hoo. By the way, Sal was barely talked about on these boards in Seasons 1 and 2. Now Peggy's out-of-wedlock child, well, that became an hysterical melee! I think some people take every line of dialog and every scene and every glance far to seriously. There was MORE to this episode (even though I didn't care for it particularly) than good old Sal and his thirty second scene with the bellboy. There were the fashions (yes, I know, that isn't vitally important but like I said, at my age you kind of give up the crusading bit, knowing full well you can't change the world and it isn't really up to you to try), those scheming Brits, the long-suffering Pete, the ever classy Trudy, and so much more. And why oh why does wardrobe always make Joan look like the Teutonic Titwillow?

Homophobes are everywhere so let's let them be here too?
Sal/Brian are gay. We haven't discussed him much because his storyline has never really been that explored, sans the dinner with Cosgrove.
I'm not talking dialog, I'm talking here on the board.
I've stated what I thought of the episode on several threads. I didn't particularly like this episode either.

Just because you gave up crusading doesn't mean others can't pick up the mantle. You want to be satisfied with others dictating what you can do with your life, fine. I don't think it's right.

Zabadu: I think you simply like to, as Dry Manhattan said, find something to brawl about. I'll leave you to it. Not interested. See ya!

Hi Madison Avenue 342!

I am glad Matt W. chose to open in 1963. I am assuming by Betty's baby "bump" it is probably late Spring or Summer of '63.
I can't imagine a show about the 1960s that didn't have some coverage about JFK's death. I don't care how much the story has been told.

To me, MM is a story about the events of the 1960s and the impact on the characters. I love the history weaved into the stories.
The last episode of Season 2 really illustrates this. The Cuban missile crisis affected every character. They all felt the sense of doom and the possibility of nuclear war and death.
There are so many other examples in the first 2 seasons.
I hope you enjoy the new season! And welcome to this Forum if you are new!

It has been mentioned, but the bit with the Stewardess' drinking in uniform does not happen. I was a National Airlines Stewardess in 1965, but things were the same. I was suprised, as I had just finished an article in this months Vanity Fair magazine about Mad Men. In the article it is mentioned that Matthew Weiner, the creator of the series has OCD when it comes to period authenticity, and went on to say how he agonized for hours about the airplane scene.

.....I've discussed Sal, his story lines, my hopes for him, etc., PLENTY, and am a big fan.

Guess you missed those discussions.

As to the Civil Rights movement…..yes, there WAS warfare.

However, I’m pretty sure, just from my crazy, ditzy, ignorant "fill in the blank here" recollection, that Martin Luther King wasn’t one of the ones holding a fire hose.

MadisonAvenue342: And it appears you think that anyone with an opinion other than yours is brawling. You stated your opinion, I disagreed. If that's a brawl, it doesn't take much for you.

No, Martin Luther King was one getting hosed.

Blatant self righteousness is always ugly, no matter how good the cause or which side of any cause.

And yes, MadAve342, I'd like to talk about other things. I'm paraphrasing something I wrote at the end of a post several up:

On another note, I was thinking about Pete and Trudy from some of the comments made, and someone here months ago calling Mona Roger's "moral compass." Anyone think of Pete and Trudy as a young version of Roger and Mona? I can picture Roger being much more spoiled and demanding as a young man!

And to me, the reconciliation is simple and what I expected: Peggy shattered her myth, and Pete got on with his life with what he has: a trophy wife with the right background.

60'schild: Hi there! Actually, Weiner had emphatically stated he did NOT want to cover the JFK assassination and was skipping to '64. But, I guess he must have changed his mind. As a weary Boomer who has seen the endless replaying of those tapes from that time (you have too, I'll bet), I would prefer that Weiner had indeed skipped it, but perhaps he won't make a big deal out of it. I don't know, so much has happened since that time that it (JFK era) almost seems dream-like now. At least to me. I was quite young during the Cuban Missile Crises so I really didn't understand the complexity at the time. Again, I guess so much time has gone by and so many other relevant things have happened, I would prefer Weiner just get on with the story of the Mad Men group. But hey, that's me.

No, I am not new to this forum. Was here in Seasons 1 and 2. I am hoping that subsequent episodes are better than the one the other evening but I do like the series as a whole.

Charmander, Peggy's sister's baby is her own child. She was quite pregnant when she and the mom were in Peggy's hospital room.

Someone mentioned Don's lack of respect for Betty. Women were not viewed as equals in 1963. Patronized, yes. Respected, no. His attitude reflects that of society as a whole. Not to say that all men demonstrated their disrespect for their wives with affairs, but women as a whole were not respected. Certainly this permeates everything on Man Men, from the "girls" at the office being called "Sweetheart" to the way Pete said to Trudy, "Do I have to put my foot down?" Don walked out of a meeting with Rachel Mencken, saying "I am not going to be talked to like that by a WOMAN." Strangely, Don DOES respect Peggy.

Betty mentioned she just wanted everything to be "perfect" when the new baby arrived. Betty always wants everything to be perfect and her Pollyanna attitude is really one of denial because she can't admit how bad everything really is. So she has the perfect veneer. This is also a reflection of life in that era. She didn't want the baby but is having it. It could be a boy but she wants to believe it's a girl. Her husband is back but still unfaithful. She got so indignant when her psychiatrist suggested she was angry at her mother. Perfection and denial. Her perfect Grace Kelly looks are also part of her perfection.

MsFabulous: I agree that Trudy is Pete's trophy wife. I don't know though, I don't seem to dislike Pete as so many others do. He appears frustrated (I would be too if someone pulled on me what the Brits pulled on him - making two heads of accounts, etc.). Frankly, I could see Pete starting his own agency (with Trudy's father's money) and doing quite well!

MsFabulous: I'll remember that when I see another one of your long critiques about the writing of the show. It's pretty self-righteous to do that too.

It's nice to know you guys will take the rights others earned for you and toss them away.

Greg,
You are not thinking too much. You are the thinker that this board really needs; that this board had last season and before.
Where are my "girls"?
No life is perfect. All these people are flawed; as life is. I don't want to "dial up" a proper scenario. I want what makes MM so terrific. I don't need to approve, I just need to observe.
I do love all these episodes, I love all the cinematography, and the great actors. This isn't commercial tv where everything is wrapped up into a nice little bow in 21 minutes.
This is a wonderful program to look at, and to love, because it isn't "neat".
I think everyone has a right to post, I just get curious as to why, if people are disgusted, follow hundreds of posts to hate some more.
That is all for me. I just can't wait for the next episode.
Note: if these folks that don't like this writing, or episode, and continue to post: I would love for you to put your energies into our political system.
Whatever your views.
My apologies to the grammar nazi. I took get some of this grammar stuff. But I would say I feel Badly.
It's an adverb.

Imamarylin: I too have always thought Betty Draper has a Pollyanna attitude and is in at least semi-denial. I too think she wants to believe the baby is a girl. Someone here at some point stated she knew she was having a girl. I don't see how this could be in 1963. No one "knew" what they were having back then. Anyway, she does have that Grace Kelly thing going on for sure! Always perfect, never a hair out of place, always smiling - well, almost always.

…..I think I just decided what I really need in life is a wife.

Husbands are way too much work.

And I want her to be “Trudy” because she’s the best wife ever!

Ive been reading here, for the first time admittedly, but dont see anything about Joanie's seemingly filled out form.

Did anyone else notice that although she is a robust woman already, she seemed even more so? I wondered if she were going to become pregnant here in an upcoming episode.

Imamarilyn: "Strangely, Don DOES respect Peggy. "

- Now here's an interesting relationship! Why does Don respect Peggy as an almost equal and treat her differently than other women?

Food for thought...
- It's a mentor/student relationship. Don is grooming Peggy to replace him the way Pete wishes Don would do for him.
- Peggy does what she can to not be too "girly"and is pretty much asexual at times.
- Peggy has been one of the most creative and successful people in the SC office (despite of/or because? she's a woman working in a boy's club).
- Peggy and Don know some of each others' dirt - secrets keep it a close relationship.

…..Some people have been saying that.

She looked just the same to me, but she did make that comment to Peggy at the elevator about “I’ll be out of here soon – nothing I can do…..” so who knows.

Madam M: I don't know if Joan is pregnant, but wardrobe always made her look like the Teutonic Titwillow. I think they over do it on her padding.

Dry Manhattan: I think Trudy is indeed the perfect wife! Attractive, attentive, always there with a smile, and she seems to understand Pete more this season than in the past. I know I am going to be lambasted on this one (by someone or other) but I never knew what Pete saw in Peggy. Trudy is smart, articulate, a great dresser, and seems to genuinely adore Pete (hard as that is to do). Just never saw the magic in Peggy others here are always touting. Perhaps I just never liked her character. Nothing against the actress who plays her, though.

Hi Mad Ave342!
Hope you don't mind the shortened name! My apologies about the Forum. I was new to it last Summer.
Yes, I am a Boomer. And I am techno-challenged, this was my first attempt at joining any on line group. I think it was because of my love for the MM show, and the ability to share memories and opinions about the show, and the time period.
I was young during the early 60's also. Yet, the older I get the more I remember things from my childhood. A BIG sign of aging!!
I remember the adults around me being very fearful during Oct. 1962. I remember our teachers telling us to pray for peace (and hearing the same message at Church).
I remember the day JFK was killed, the principal of my school announcing over the intercom that we would be going home early because the President was dead, and the TV coverage of the events of that weekend. I remember every adult I knew crying, and glued to the TV sets. I also remember a feeling that time stood still. And the fear that comes with the feeling that things will never be the same.
On a lighter note...I can't remember much about last week!!! I AM OLD!! LOL!!

Hanna - Now that Don knows Sal's secret (and Sal has confirmation that Don is whore), I think Don also will have Sal's unwavering support (just like he has Peggy's support).

Don't know what Don will do with these allies, but at a backbiting place like SC, one can't have too many friends!

I did briefly wonder about our dear friend, Freddie R., while watching Sunday night. Surely his six months are up. Of course, the Brits probably put the kibosh on taking him back once they were informed of his drinking problems.

Wouldn't it be a "hoot and a half" if Duck fell off the wagon after the merger, met Freddie at the drying out clinic, and the two, after sharing their mutual resentment of Sterling Cooper, formed their own company with the goal of stealing all SC's clients?

.....Never say "never!"

Interesting point, Roger. Don is so good with keeping secrets, and it seems like that is a backwards (but perhaps an effective) way to make allies. He certainly has the loyalty of his co-workers, and it's saved his butt a couple of times now.

60'schild: Oh sure, I remember all that too, i.e., the adults being fearful during the CMC (but I was a bit too young to truly understand the enormity of it all. I mean, when your just a kid, dying isn't really a reality for you. At least that's how it seemed to me). And oh my gosh, I swear everyone that was in elementary to high school back then (including me - and my husband - who were both in the 6th grade at different schools) tells the exact same story about the JFK assassination: The principal of my school came into class - or announced over the intercom - that we would be going home early because the President was dead. I saw teachers crying. Parents were stunned into silence, etc. We could all write the same book, I swear! (I'll bet the same thing happened after Lincoln was assassinated. nearly everyone had the same recollections and experiences of that event.) I think however, that I didn't have the sense then that time stood still; it's only as I look back on it and I find myself doing that less and less as the years go by.

With Mad Men, I had rather a feeling of the past the first season, then that faded for me. There were a couple of songs used in seasons 1 and 2 I remember hearing on the radio but now, I feel more and more disconnected from those days. What did I have for dinner last night? Hmmm, I don't even recall. Yes, old age is creeping in!

60'schild: I had a long reply to your last post and this site crashed and it was lost. What is with this site anyway? It was bad last season but this time around it's the worst! Anyway, I recall all those things too but they are dimming in memory!

60'schild: Oh wait, there is my long reply. This site is &$&%%*&@#&&!**!!!!!!

Zerelda: Hey, that thing with Freddie meeting Duck, etc., and then starting another agency with the old SC crew - you could be onto something there!

MadAve342, I can tell you why I like Peggy: I see some of myself in her. I'm what society (especially then) more "masculine" when it comes to business and getting things done, and I can push myself really hard in those areas, but on the other hand, I've got a strong "feminine" nature that can be an awkward mesh with the "masculine" parts of my personality. Also, like Peggy, I'd rather be noticed for my brains than my body, but I still want to look good. I'm 38 and have no children and want to children. Twice when I was much younger, I was concerned I might have been pregnant and I knew I wouldn't have second thoughts about having an abortion. So those are probably the biggest reasons I really like Peggy's part. Plus I can be kind of brusque with people at times because I'm thick skinned sometimes say things figuring everyone else is, too. Like Don, she's full of conflicts, just not as extreme as his.

I'm thinking the brown dress Joan wears is the same one from that awesome promo NY shoot. I never liked brown as a color, but man, that color is warm and luscious! Again, great with the red hair!

Madam M, the first time around I didn't notice Joan looking different, but a lot of people did. Second time around I really saw it. I don't know if that's on purpose or the new deep fryer she said she bought in an interview ;) Since her face/chin doesn't seem to be affected by it, I'm thinking it's padding.

I don't think I've mentioned this before: the stewardess reminds me of Patrick's fiance in Auntie Mame (the Ros Russel version - "Oh, I love Irene Dunn"). You know - the one who is "really top drawer" LOL "I can't tell you how pleased I am to make your acquaintance!" "Books, are so decorative, don't you find?"

LOL 60schild... it's not all that bad, I'm sure!

.....(re-posted).....There is a great interview with Sal, I mean Bryan, about the episode on the Blog.....

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/2009/08/bryan-batt-interview.php#more

MsFabulous: At 38, you're way younger than me. This means you were born in what, 1971. Holy moly, I was in college! Anyway, I just don't care for Peggy for some reason, I don't know why. Not the actress that plays her, but the character of Peggy herself. Although, prior to Mad Men I had never heard of Elizabeth Moss. I too was a career woman once but it got old. Now, I am well, a proud Boomer, I guess. (Do I sound old, or what?!)

Not sure what you meant when you told 60schild..."It's not all that bad, I'm sure!" What did you mean? I ask because she and I had been talking about being aging Boomers and the sixties (and oh gosh, I remember the last couple of years of the fifties - yikes!). I think that one can enjoy Mad Men no matter what one's age, but we Boomers have a bond just like our parents had before us, those of them in the WWII generation. It's just something that's there. I am sure you will have it more and more with your generation as you continue to age. Anyway, just curious what you meant.

Glad we are all onto something else, too. Something a little lighter and more fun with regard to Mad Men. I watch Mad Men for pure entertainment!

MsFabulous: Oh, I guess you must have meant that 60'schild description of her memory could not be all that bad. I reread her posting. Believe me, as you reach your late fifties, you begin to wonder what happened to your former self. I mean, it's still in you somewhere but you know "aint" what it used to be! I used to think getting older and pushing 60 was for other people. It would NEVER happen to me, all those things like Menopause (what an experience THAT was!), some dimming eyesight, and wondering what it was I had for dinner last night. Ha, how wrong I was!

To Philadelphia: did it never occur to you that the purpose of a drama is not necessarily to provide moral instruction? But rather to create vivid characters and plots that reveal something about the human condition, whether moral or immoral?

re-watching SE1E03

OMG. Screech. Er-r-rch. Backup. Rew-ind.

In Don's fantasy, at the beginning, the midwife says to Don's stepmother:

"His name's Dick... after a wish his mother should've lived to see."

The wish, of course, being the prostitute's: that the father's "dick" be cut off.

So there you have it, folks: Don was named after a penis.

Is this a travesty? Or ever-so-apropos?

rasputin - Apropos. Could not be a more perfect name for him. It speaks to the essence of his being and his power. He he. ;)

When are they posting the episode online? I don't have cable so I watch all my shows online.

Want to set a few things straight: Time Magazine says, "It (the show) creates its early-60's settings with painstaking detail..." The following would have NEVER happened (I know because I was a TWA air hostess at that time). 1. A flight manifest of names and seat assignments were always given to flt. crew prior to boarding, and we were ordered to address passengers by name (still done in 1st cl, but then in both). First off where is the hostess going to see the luggage tag on his suitcase? In the belly of the plane?? But then she already knows his real name anyway because she has a seat map!! 2. She invites the guys to have dinner w/ the crew @ Hausners..........yes, we went there all the time, but in uniform? NEVER!!! No drinking, no smoking allowed in uniform!!! Then or now. We couldn't wait to get out of uniform!! 3.A flight attendant would NEVER give up her wings, but perhaps she stuck in his suitcase what we gave away to kids called "jr. hostess wings-doubtful! 4.These gals are such airheads....not typical of the former RN's and college grads I knew!!

Jamblermm: You wondered a while back if there
were other promos on other stations for "Mad Men." They played promos a lot on Prime Time News all weekend before the show.

I also noted that two of my favorite ESPN sportscasters (of all things) on ESPN, Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheister, are crazy about "Mad Men."

Madison Avenue: I was 27 yrs. old in 1963 and Florida Red was the lipstick rage. In the mid-fifties, it was Pixie Pink. Both heavily put on.

Oh, another thing............the "Belvedere" Hotel was the Lord Baltimore Hotel, where TWA flight crews stayed on layover. Very historic........now managed by Renaissance.

.....That "Inside Season 3" video with Gay Perello talks about the wings, and how they were actually from the 70s.

I guess they were on eBay, she was out-bid in the middle of the night, and so had to rent them from the winning bidder.

http://www.amctv.com/videos/mad-men/

okay after looking at ALL the postings (some of you people are taking this show a bit too seriously, And should this thing be more organized maybe by topic?)

I am in Canada, Last year A channel (being dropped by CTV in many areas) carried it, so i could watch Season 1 and 2 on CTV.ca (still can)

So .... now i am to believe that i have to pay i Tunes for it?

i am normally a polite beuty but Chuck that! I will wait for it to be on DVD before I Pay itunes to watch it online. I gladly sit through commercials online to watch this show. but i will not PAY to see it on a tiny screen.

Enjoy the season i will catch up with it later i guess.

About TWA wings....mine were silver metal worn on the hat. I donated my uniforms to the rather well known TWA flight attendants' uniform collection owned by our TWA Clipped Wings International and can only be modeled by former TWA flight attendants (online website), but you may be sure that I kept my cherished wings. Those shown in the show came immediately after the ones I wore, and the wings were gold metal.............just like the kiddie jr. hostess wings.

Now, who is Dick Whitman again? (just kidding!)

Okay everyone, you can relax. I'm finally able to get on the site (I hate Roadrunner!)to make my comments, which I know you were all dying to read. I only got through about about a third of the posts, and counted 90! more "Page downs" on my PC.
Ignore the number after my name. I'm still just "racy".

Jared Harris - yes, Richard Harris' son! Great catch! I'm sorry, I forgot who mentioned it. He also played John Lennon in the VH-1 film, The Two of Us".

Funniest line was the one Pete made to Ken in the elevator about staying away from Grand Central. I laughed out loud for a few seconds.

Was it just me, or did anyone wonder if the stewardess would look-up Betty's "brother" again, since she knows his address from the luggage tag?

@Aye Cindy: Dick Whitman's birthday, and not Don's? Hmmmm - I didn't feel that. He didn't show his license to prove it was his B'day because his license says "Don Draper", and not his Betty's brother's name.

@ Greg - Whoa! Thanks for all the insights. Next week I'll come over and watch w/ you. Thanks again for the address shortcut to get on the blog. Geez, Greg, don't kick yourself on missing on 1st view that "LONDON fOG" was "really" the name of the episode. I never thought of it until I read your post! You are one sharp viewer!

@timezuchangin: I've never heard the phrase about "lesbians and toolbelts" at all.

@etienne: there's a question mark following a sentence when you ask a question in the English language.

@Charles: I AGREE w/ you completely! The whole point of Don seeing Sal in a compromising situation was, like he did w/ Peggy, sympathize with his co-workers secret. With Peggy it was something like, "Put your past behind you. It can be done." And w/ Sal, "Limit your exposure". I knew when they were on the plane, and Sal was so afraid by Don asking him to run something by him - I knew it was going to be about something else, but in code. I thought the whole set-up and dialogue was very clever. I am so surprised to read how many bloggers were disappointed in that.

@DcDave: I was surprised to see Trudy, too. Why was she leaving to go see her folks again in S2?

@childof60s: I disagree. I think Don definately "skipped" a beat when answering Sally. There was a very brief, but "pregnant" pause there, b4 Don answered, "Yes".

@Zerelda: You know, I didn't even pick-up on "Moneypenney" until the 2nd viewing. That was a great bit of writing. You are a sharp viewer.

@Anon: I agree that a stwardess would not be drinking in uniform. I'm very interested in what the "stewardess" bloggers have been posting. My immediate thought was that 2 of my friends were flight attendants in the 80s, and told me that they had to wear a certain height heel (no flats) when walking through an airport.

@McFabulous: What makes the stewardess "a tramp"? By whose standards are you making that observation? She was a young woman attracted to a man and wanted to sleep with him. So what? It's a free country. How come you don't have labels for Don, or Sal or the bellhop? And what does that make Peggy? And why not call Betty the same thing? Is what she did in the bar with a stranger not even more sleazy? And the bar stranger? How do you label him?

@Nokomis.FL: How do you make italics? My screen doesn't display that option while on the site.

@bodielgt: Like many here, I strongly disagree with you. Even my mom thought Sal's hotel scene was very realistic, & she was about his age in 1963. I really think the writers took the step in a post "Brokeback Mtn", "Milk" world of gay men kissing. I was really happy for Sal, as I think his storyline is one of the best. I'm happy the writers finally spent alot of time with his character, in this episode.

@chopin47: I strongly disagree about Sal's coming-out. This is 15 years b4 Harvey Milk' s SF movement/"come-out" campaign. If you saw "Milk", you may remember the guy that owned the SF "Advocate" said he lost his executive position in NYC because someone had spotted him and his lover at the Met.

@clarabow31: I don't remember when I was born, but my mother has told me the story often enuf that I think about what she told me were the events, when my birthday comes around. Remember Don told the Dept Store woman, "I was a whore-child". It's big trauma = Don's secret. I thought the show's opening was effective.

@Madmengirl: I think Don stopped explaining to Sally because the shock of seeing the stewardess wings was rolling over him. He got out a "yes" and a bit more, but Betty had to tell the rest of the story.

@SallyD - Whoa girl! You got all those dates right. I agree w/ Jamblermm, good 4 you. Unfortunately, I'm just old enuf to remember all of them, as they happened. But thanks for posting them.

@SCfan: Don't forget, Pete whalloped Ken after he made that remark about Peggy in S1 - "Everything good ended-up in her tail, like lobster", or something along those lines.

@Anon: I don't agree. That scene w/ Sal in the hotel room was not "over the top", which would mean "campy". It wasn't campy at all. It was right on the mark. Re watch "Brokeback Mtn" and "Milk" and then make up your mind. And grading the episode a "C"? It's my favorite episode so far so far, so I'll give it an "A+". Sorry for you bloggers who didn't "get it".

@@Jam: Joan dismissed Peggy's complaints because she thinks she's out of there. Peggy represents all the carrer upswings that Joan well deserved, but was cut out of, so Joan is thinking, "Well, I got the doctor and she got the career."

@MadisonAvenue: I thought Peggy was "fishing" w/ Joan, & I agree that Peggy is trying to get Lola, is it? replaced.

I have alot more, so I'll check w/ you guys tonight (if I can get on the damn blog!)

Now, who is Dick Whitman again? (just kidding!)

Okay everyone, you can relax. I'm finally able to get on the site (I hate Roadrunner!)to make my comments, which I know you were all dying to read. I only got through about about a third of the posts, and counted 90! more "Page downs" on my PC.
Ignore the number after my name. I'm still just "racy".

Jared Harris - yes, Richard Harris' son! Great catch! I'm sorry, I forgot who mentioned it. He also played John Lennon in the VH-1 film, The Two of Us".

Funniest line was the one Pete made to Ken in the elevator about staying away from Grand Central. I laughed out loud for a few seconds.

Was it just me, or did anyone wonder if the stewardess would look-up Betty's "brother" again, since she knows his address from the luggage tag?

@Aye Cindy: Dick Whitman's birthday, and not Don's? Hmmmm - I didn't feel that. He didn't show his license to prove it was his B'day because his license says "Don Draper", and not his Betty's brother's name.

@ Greg - Whoa! Thanks for all the insights. Next week I'll come over and watch w/ you. Thanks again for the address shortcut to get on the blog. Geez, Greg, don't kick yourself on missing on 1st view that "LONDON fOG" was "really" the name of the episode. I never thought of it until I read your post! You are one sharp viewer!

@timezuchangin: I've never heard the phrase about "lesbians and toolbelts" at all.

@etienne: there's a question mark following a sentence when you ask a question in the English language.

@Charles: I AGREE w/ you completely! The whole point of Don seeing Sal in a compromising situation was, like he did w/ Peggy, sympathize with his co-workers secret. With Peggy it was something like, "Put your past behind you. It can be done." And w/ Sal, "Limit your exposure". I knew when they were on the plane, and Sal was so afraid by Don asking him to run something by him - I knew it was going to be about something else, but in code. I thought the whole set-up and dialogue was very clever. I am so surprised to read how many bloggers were disappointed in that.

@DcDave: I was surprised to see Trudy, too. Why was she leaving to go see her folks again in S2?

@childof60s: I disagree. I think Don definately "skipped" a beat when answering Sally. There was a very brief, but "pregnant" pause there, b4 Don answered, "Yes".

@Zerelda: You know, I didn't even pick-up on "Moneypenney" until the 2nd viewing. That was a great bit of writing. You are a sharp viewer.

@Anon: I agree that a stwardess would not be drinking in uniform. I'm very interested in what the "stewardess" bloggers have been posting. My immediate thought was that 2 of my friends were flight attendants in the 80s, and told me that they had to wear a certain height heel (no flats) when walking through an airport.

@McFabulous: What makes the stewardess "a tramp"? By whose standards are you making that observation? She was a young woman attracted to a man and wanted to sleep with him. So what? It's a free country. How come you don't have labels for Don, or Sal or the bellhop? And what does that make Peggy? And why not call Betty the same thing? Is what she did in the bar with a stranger not even more sleazy? And the bar stranger? How do you label him?

@Nokomis.FL: How do you make italics? My screen doesn't display that option while on the site.

@bodielgt: Like many here, I strongly disagree with you. Even my mom thought Sal's hotel scene was very realistic, & she was about his age in 1963. I really think the writers took the step in a post "Brokeback Mtn", "Milk" world of gay men kissing. I was really happy for Sal, as I think his storyline is one of the best. I'm happy the writers finally spent alot of time with his character, in this episode.

@chopin47: I strongly disagree about Sal's coming-out. This is 15 years b4 Harvey Milk' s SF movement/"come-out" campaign. If you saw "Milk", you may remember the guy that owned the SF "Advocate" said he lost his executive position in NYC because someone had spotted him and his lover at the Met.

@clarabow31: I don't remember when I was born, but my mother has told me the story often enuf that I think about what she told me were the events, when my birthday comes around. Remember Don told the Dept Store woman, "I was a whore-child". It's big trauma = Don's secret. I thought the show's opening was effective.

@Madmengirl: I think Don stopped explaining to Sally because the shock of seeing the stewardess wings was rolling over him. He got out a "yes" and a bit more, but Betty had to tell the rest of the story.

@SallyD - Whoa girl! You got all those dates right. I agree w/ Jamblermm, good 4 you. Unfortunately, I'm just old enuf to remember all of them, as they happened. But thanks for posting them.

@SCfan: Don't forget, Pete whalloped Ken after he made that remark about Peggy in S1 - "Everything good ended-up in her tail, like lobster", or something along those lines.

@Anon: I don't agree. That scene w/ Sal in the hotel room was not "over the top", which would mean "campy". It wasn't campy at all. It was right on the mark. Re watch "Brokeback Mtn" and "Milk" and then make up your mind. And grading the episode a "C"? It's my favorite episode so far so far, so I'll give it an "A+". Sorry for you bloggers who didn't "get it".

@@Jam: Joan dismissed Peggy's complaints because she thinks she's out of there. Peggy represents all the carrer upswings that Joan well deserved, but was cut out of, so Joan is thinking, "Well, I got the doctor and she got the career."

@MadisonAvenue: I thought Peggy was "fishing" w/ Joan, & I agree that Peggy is trying to get Lola, is it? replaced.

I have alot more, so I'll check w/ you guys tonight (if I can get on the damn blog!)

Now, who is Dick Whitman again? (just kidding!)

Okay everyone, you can relax. I'm finally able to get on the site (I hate Roadrunner!)to make my comments, which I know you were all dying to read. I only got through about about a third of the posts, and counted 90! more "Page downs" on my PC.
Ignore the number after my name. I'm still just "racy".

Jared Harris - yes, Richard Harris' son! Great catch! I'm sorry, I forgot who mentioned it. He also played John Lennon in the VH-1 film, The Two of Us".

Funniest line was the one Pete made to Ken in the elevator about staying away from Grand Central. I laughed out loud for a few seconds.

Was it just me, or did anyone wonder if the stewardess would look-up Betty's "brother" again, since she knows his address from the luggage tag?

@Aye Cindy: Dick Whitman's birthday, and not Don's? Hmmmm - I didn't feel that. He didn't show his license to prove it was his B'day because his license says "Don Draper", and not his Betty's brother's name.

@ Greg - Whoa! Thanks for all the insights. Next week I'll come over and watch w/ you. Thanks again for the address shortcut to get on the blog. Geez, Greg, don't kick yourself on missing on 1st view that "LONDON fOG" was "really" the name of the episode. I never thought of it until I read your post! You are one sharp viewer!

@timezuchangin: I've never heard the phrase about "lesbians and toolbelts" at all.

@etienne: there's a question mark following a sentence when you ask a question in the English language.

@Charles: I AGREE w/ you completely! The whole point of Don seeing Sal in a compromising situation was, like he did w/ Peggy, sympathize with his co-workers secret. With Peggy it was something like, "Put your past behind you. It can be done." And w/ Sal, "Limit your exposure". I knew when they were on the plane, and Sal was so afraid by Don asking him to run something by him - I knew it was going to be about something else, but in code. I thought the whole set-up and dialogue was very clever. I am so surprised to read how many bloggers were disappointed in that.

@DcDave: I was surprised to see Trudy, too. Why was she leaving to go see her folks again in S2?

@childof60s: I disagree. I think Don definately "skipped" a beat when answering Sally. There was a very brief, but "pregnant" pause there, b4 Don answered, "Yes".

@Zerelda: You know, I didn't even pick-up on "Moneypenney" until the 2nd viewing. That was a great bit of writing. You are a sharp viewer.

@Anon: I agree that a stwardess would not be drinking in uniform. I'm very interested in what the "stewardess" bloggers have been posting. My immediate thought was that 2 of my friends were flight attendants in the 80s, and told me that they had to wear a certain height heel (no flats) when walking through an airport.

@McFabulous: What makes the stewardess "a tramp"? By whose standards are you making that observation? She was a young woman attracted to a man and wanted to sleep with him. So what? It's a free country. How come you don't have labels for Don, or Sal or the bellhop? And what does that make Peggy? And why not call Betty the same thing? Is what she did in the bar with a stranger not even more sleazy? And the bar stranger? How do you label him?

@Nokomis.FL: How do you make italics? My screen doesn't display that option while on the site.

@bodielgt: Like many here, I strongly disagree with you. Even my mom thought Sal's hotel scene was very realistic, & she was about his age in 1963. I really think the writers took the step in a post "Brokeback Mtn", "Milk" world of gay men kissing. I was really happy for Sal, as I think his storyline is one of the best. I'm happy the writers finally spent alot of time with his character, in this episode.

@chopin47: I strongly disagree about Sal's coming-out. This is 15 years b4 Harvey Milk' s SF movement/"come-out" campaign. If you saw "Milk", you may remember the guy that owned the SF "Advocate" said he lost his executive position in NYC because someone had spotted him and his lover at the Met.

@clarabow31: I don't remember when I was born, but my mother has told me the story often enuf that I think about what she told me were the events, when my birthday comes around. Remember Don told the Dept Store woman, "I was a whore-child". It's big trauma = Don's secret. I thought the show's opening was effective.

@Madmengirl: I think Don stopped explaining to Sally because the shock of seeing the stewardess wings was rolling over him. He got out a "yes" and a bit more, but Betty had to tell the rest of the story.

@SallyD - Whoa girl! You got all those dates right. I agree w/ Jamblermm, good 4 you. Unfortunately, I'm just old enuf to remember all of them, as they happened. But thanks for posting them.

@SCfan: Don't forget, Pete whalloped Ken after he made that remark about Peggy in S1 - "Everything good ended-up in her tail, like lobster", or something along those lines.

@Anon: I don't agree. That scene w/ Sal in the hotel room was not "over the top", which would mean "campy". It wasn't campy at all. It was right on the mark. Re watch "Brokeback Mtn" and "Milk" and then make up your mind. And grading the episode a "C"? It's my favorite episode so far so far, so I'll give it an "A+". Sorry for you bloggers who didn't "get it".

@@Jam: Joan dismissed Peggy's complaints because she thinks she's out of there. Peggy represents all the carrer upswings that Joan well deserved, but was cut out of, so Joan is thinking, "Well, I got the doctor and she got the career."

@MadisonAvenue: I thought Peggy was "fishing" w/ Joan, & I agree that Peggy is trying to get Lola, is it? replaced.

I have alot more, so I'll check w/ you guys tonight (if I can get on the damn blog!)

MM jumping the shark? Ye of little faith!
I don't think the series has jumped the shark, because it is in the hands of very capable writers. That being said, most good shows either have to go off the air early, or eventually they will jump shark because all of the writing possibilities have been exhausted. But...this isn't your run of the mill show...this is Mad Men.

.....Try this - no idea if it works.