I think all of your possibilities are plausible. And I think you make an excellent point about their status. I wondered why Harry's wife got upset, but I think that may be a part of it. Maybe Harry understood better than she did why they should step aside...

Cotillion, and rich people's parties.

Trudy and Pete were outstanding! They were probably forced to attend ballroom dance lessons, but it's paid off. Encore!!

Jennifer was peeved and jealous. She's ambitious for Harry but he's such a slow dolt....not exactly a "Pete".

Glen wrote: Cotillion, and rich people's parties.

Ah! Thank you Glen. And thanks to Kurrykat and Jolie. It likely was a mix of mandatory dance class as kids, but most certainly perfected during those Cotillions. I'd forgotten about such things.

You did not learn the charleston in cotillion.

I really enjoyed that scene! I'm sure their parents made them take dance lessons, and they went to school dances where the Charleston wasa still "Cool" in the 50's.

I learned the Charleston first from my grandfather and great uncle and we would often do it at family parties with my GF doing that bowlegged crossknee thing--it was GREAT!! (and I was BORN in 1962) AND I learned it in dance classes that we all took in 7th grade (where boys and girls learned to dance the Fox Trot, Waltz, Mambo, Cha-Cha, Jitterbug and Charleston).

I absolutely believe with their background and education, the Charleston came out at all kinds of drunken debauchery.

I LOVED that scene.

I think there was a little more to that scene with Jennifer and Trudy. There was a little build-up of jealousy on Trudy's part while there was all the "baby talk" earlier. So, when Trudy and Pete take the stage with the Charleston, Trudy butts Jennifer off the stage as a "you may have a baby, but I'm a better dancer" move.

What joy on Pete's face. Trudy is delightful when ever she appears, but Pete is almost always grim and complaining about something or other. Still, how lovely to see them happy.

One thing I don't like about MM is that storylines are dropped (weren't they on the verge of divorce last season?) in between seasons. If they were so miserable last year, why are the together now?

If we "loose" years or even several months each season, I would hope to see some explanations along the way.

Here's another take on Pete and Trudy knowing the Charleston: trends in nostalgia. According to the MAD Magazines from the '50s that I inherited, upper-class college kids of that decade went through a 'twenties' craze (possibly because it was one decade of privilege and prosperity calling back to another but also because you discover your parents trunk of old raccoon coats and bead dresses and ukuleles and start playing with them.) Pete and Trudy would have that as a potential influence: along with the ballroom lessons mentioned. A fascination with the 20s continues on into the 60s in various movies, musicals and fashions, just as the 70s would ironically explore the Deco Depression era of the 30s. (The Sixties sheath is very 20s in its way, for example.) I can't think of many examples, but there's Thoroughly Modern Millie for instance. Another connection between the decades at the moment is that fondness for 'named' dances: the Charleston and the Twist but got a name-check in the episode.

Cotillion or college. In university (1998-2002 for me), I was part of the swing-dancing club, and learned everything from the Charleston to big band music. In any case, dancing the Charleston for people like Pete and Trudy would be like doing something from the early 70s (I was born in late '79) for me.

Miss Templeton: very good point about the fact that nostalgia for the roaring 20's had a revival in the 60's. The wildness of their grandparents certainly appealed to the 60's generation--they had a lot in common with those grandparents, after all, including shocking hem lengths, shocking hair styles, and sneaking around illegal narcotics (liquor being illegal in the 1920's).

I'm really glad you brought this up, by the way, as it reminds me that granddad there was pouring liquor into the sink last week because he thought the cops were coming and he was back in prohibition.

The Millie movie did come out in '67, but, ironically, was hugely overshadowed by Bonnie and Clyde the big hit of that year. So maybe nostalgia for the 30's was already edging out the 20's by then?

As I recall, there was also nostalgia in the 60's (aesthetically) for the Regency period in empire dresses and high-piled hair with curls.

Hello?????

Pete and Trudy were well aware of the audience they would be playing to.....AND anyone that has ever watched "Father Knows Best" is aware that Jim and Margaret loved to get their racoon coat and flapper outfits out of the attic. The 1920's were very nostalgic in the '50's and early '60's. Elliot Ness and.....Dorothy Provine in "The Roaring Twenties". This is no different than the "American Graffiti" blip in the seventies.

If a young couple hit the dance floor with a perfect HUSTLE at your next wedding- the reaction would be the same!

Average Midwestern family here at that time and we danced the Charleston. It was popular in the mid 50s to early 60s as I remember. My sister who was 9 years older than me danced it all her parties, as did her friends. We did it in grade school at recess time and at birthday parties. Not as well as Trudy and Pete, but we had a lot of fun!

I enjoyed this episode for the most part, esp. the talents. Joanie was quite good on that accordion and what a nice voice.

Gavin wrote: AND anyone that has ever watched "Father Knows Best" is aware that Jim and Margaret loved to get their racoon coat and flapper outfits out of the attic.

LOL! Gavin thanks! I was very much out of the loop on this one. I knew there was a nostalgia for the 20's in the early 60's that matched the nostalgia for Happy Days '50's in the late 70's, but I had no idea it went so far as to people learning how to perfect Charleston. I thought that Pete and Trudy would have learned it in dance class as kids, but I wasn't sure if that dance was included in such classes. And, no, I never have watched "Father Knows Best," so I had no idea about Jim and Margaret keeping the dance alive on tv.

I would love to know what the actors thought when they got this script and read: "Pete and Trudy Charleston..." and found out that they were going to be taking dance lessons for the episode.

in the sixties there was a surge in popularity for all music and dances of the roaring twenties. Vincent Kartheiser and the woman playing his wife did excellent on the dancefloor, I could not understand the woman who left in a huff, that was confusing, also the man hitting on Betty standing alone at the ladies room was kind of dum and already been there done that thing, I thought Don might get a bit jealous but he never saw, by episodes end though it seemed like that have a new found appreciation for being together again.

When Pete and Trudy were growing up, during the 1940's and 1950's, children of their socio-economic class received social training. "Charm schools" taught such skills as etiquette, how to dress for any occasion, the art of making small talk, and how to dance. Their "charm school" teachers, adult relics of the 1920's, would have taught them the Charleston along with the waltz, foxtrot, and other popular dances.

The lively (show-off, really) Charleston was very symbolic. Peter Campbell, who had been "to the manor born," represents the values and standards of the past; he'll soon be left behind by the social revolution of the 1960's, and his blue-blooded lineage will be disregarded as effete. Peggy, Paul, and the rest of the office-bound crew represent the future.

Was anybody else thinking of Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed doing the Charleston in "It's a Wonderful Life"? I was half hoping the dance floor would open up and dump them into the swimming pool!

So can we expect to see Vincent Kartheiser on "Dancing with the Stars" sometime soon? He sure has fleet feet.

I don't mean to trivialize your question, but I'm not quite getting why Pete and Trudy dancing is so rife for analysis. I learned the Charleston, a lot of people I know learned the Charleston, even as late as the 1970s, from our older family members who danced it when it was originally popular.

It is damn FUN to dance the Charleston! I can't think of one wedding or party I have been to where after a few drinks and the right music, somebody. old or young, didn't dance the Charleston! Though not necessarily as snappy as Pete and Trudy--they were good!

In my experience, though, people on the East Coast definitely danced way more than folks here in the Midwest--even today. I moved here about 5 years ago and even at my own wedding party, almost NONE of the Midwestern folks danced, other than the children, and almost ALL of the East Coast folks danced. My husband comes from Missouri Synod background, but as far as I know, that religion doesn't forbid dancing (and the only one who still is religious was his 80 year old father and he was practically the only one in his family who did dance besides my DH--I somehow ended up on the dance floor with him to Superfreak, imagine that one). And the other nonfamily Midwesterners weren't M/S, so I don't now what that was about. They drank their faces off, and occasionally shook their hips, but very few actually let go and boogied.

Other than that cultural lens, perhaps, I really don't see how Pete and Trudy dancing the Charleston is even debatable?

Don't forget that society "split" in the early to mid 1960's !

Who had more #! hits...The Who or The Carpenters? Somebody under 25 was buying Andy Williams and Paul Mauriat....not to mention Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass...Brazil '66, The Ballad of the Green Berets...and my favorite, The Seekers.

There is a reason why they were called "The Silent Majority.

"I'm not quite getting why Pete and Trudy dancing is so rife for analysis."

Because "Mad Men" is so prone to being packed with rather obvious, heavy-handed symbolism! Not that I'm complaining... In my opinion, "Mad Men" is among the finest dramas ever broadcast on TV (I'd rank it #2, second only to HBO's "The Wire").

I agree, Primo, I mean more the disbelief that Pete would be dancing the charleston at all.

It's a fun dance! Who doesn't like to dance the Charleston?

I don't care where Pete and Trudy learned the Charleston or why they learned it, or even if they watched an old film and decided to practice it together so they could wow everyone the next time they went to a party. Who cares?! It was fun to watch, they looked very sweet doing it, and that's it. I recall people of that generation (my parents) dancing similarly at parties hosted by my parents back in the early 60s. A couple of drinks and people cut loose. No one analyzed where anyone learned to dance or if they went to cotillions
(cotillions?), they just danced and had a good time.

I am likely alone on this but I thought they looked redonculous doing the charleston and the hat she wore looked silly and too big

according to martha reeves of the vandellas on MOTOWN 25, the opening riff on the mega hit HEATWAVE was an intentional take on the charleston which was being revived at the time.

i think some one already mentioned the 20's influence in women's fashions, with slightly dropped waists and rising hemlines. there was a conscious nostalgia for the 20's and 30's in the early 60's; when i was a young adloescent in the mid 70's we had a fascination for the 50's (AMERICAN GRAFITTI, HAPPY DAYS, GREASE) and now the young kids are dressing like we did in the 80's! it seems we are always looking back to a golden time in the past. a hundred years ago they rediscovered classicism, revived gothic and revisited the colonial. perhaps it's human to want to go back to eden, to relive the days of camelot.

I loved it--they were so much fun to watch--it was one of the most freeing moments, ironically, for them to go back in time to feel "hippyish."

I was so amazed to see Pete and Trudy dancing so well. It was wonderful! Setting aside the question of how the characters would have learned the charleston, they as actors can really dance!

My take on the scene is that is did not come across as credible. When were these two getting along well enough that they'd dance that well together?
I'm not doubting anyone present would dance the Charleston, especially at a party, just not Pete and Trudy together like they are so in sync with one another.

Fano-
I think, even with their problems....they are the strongest "team" on MM.

He's a baby...and she is an enabler(sp?) but together...they do somewhat fit one anothers' needs.

We see Pete's little fits-but only hear about Trudy's endless obsession with boys in her past.

I don't know, fan, that may be all they have to hold onto now, their shared past, the love they had when they met and were young, and their love of dancing. I can totally see a couple in the doldrums losing themselves in a drunken/festive dance to relive old happier times.

I thot Trudy struck exactly the rite tone all through the party... She took Betty's arm and led the "tour". Seated at the table she was light and likeable and even sweetly inserted that she and Pete had had an argument earlier... Her interjection of perhaps bumping into one of her many old beaus even came off as innocous.....Her baby lust was well in check and I liked seeing them enjoy being the bees knees of the dance floor...They were probably the youngest guests of the party and they showed that they were completely at ease and were absolutely among their own....
This will go a long way with Burt Cooper .... Pete's star is rising..

The fashion copy of flapper style was call a 'sack'
dress in the early 60's.... In the midwest anyway, probably 5 years behind NY...

Betty Crocker wrote: "I don't mean to trivialize your question, but I'm not quite getting why Pete and Trudy dancing is so rife for analysis."

Hey, Betty, it is a trivial question in a way. I know you took it for granted, but whether it's because I'm a west coast girl or was born a tad too late, I honestly, and truly cannot remember ever seeing anyone at any party doing the Charleston, nor do I remember taking any sort of dance class where I learned it (granted, I didn't take any dance class where I was taught classic boy-girl dances).

So I honestly did not know if it would have been usual or typical or no big deal for Pete & Trudy to not only know how to Charleston, but be able to do so off the cuff and so well. I didn't even know if the band would be likely to play it and people to dance to it--or if this was a fad that only certain people who attended such exclusive clubs engaged in. Thanks for the historical info on how very common it was. And yes, it was fun, and yes, I'm sure the shows creators and the actors had a blast doing it, just like we viewers did watching it.

As for analysis on its importance: MadMen is a very tight show which tends to stuff every minute with not just plot and character but meaning, if it can. Which means that when it came time to decide which dances at the Derby Party would be shown, and especially which one Pete and Trudy would use to display their superior dance skills (they do so well everyone backs off to watch them and Jennifer gets jealous), the choice was likely not random.

There were other historically accurate dances that could have been used. Why that one beyond the fact that it's so much fun? I can tell you that writers have a way of saying, when they find something like this or remember something like this: 'That's it! Perfect! It fits so perfectly!"

In this case, this dance that you take for granted really suits the theme of nostalgia. While Roger croons for his "Ole Kentucky Home," Pete and Trudy display their nostalgia for a time when rich, energetic and motivated young folk like themselves got to really live it up. So even though it was a commonplace dance, what it says about how we view the past and romanticize it fits perfectly with the episode.

What is the name of the song that pete and trudy campbell are performing the charleston to?

Thank you very much in advance.

Pete and Trudy, dancing the Charleston. Wonderful. Well done, everyone says so, including me.

Contrast to:

Peggy, Paul, Joan and the rest of the staff dancing to the Twist and other fairly current dances in S1. Pete didn't dance at all, just told Peggy when she asked him to dance, "I don't like seeing you like this."

Who's with it and who's out of it?

In response to CadMen - I think you reacted to the fact that Trudy looked silly dancing in her hat because that was a faux pas. Cultured women did not wear hats after 6PM, so no one would be dancing in the evening in a hat! I love to see just how authentic Mad Men can get, so I was disappointed on this one. Joan even mentioned reading Emily Post. Producers and writers, please don't only write about Emily Post, refer to her to really get the etiquette correct!!

to testbunny: the song they danced to is called the charleston. now guess who's buried in grant's tomb?lol

in gerneral i find it interesting how certain arbiters of triviality visit each and every thread to expound on the silliness of the topic. what could be more trivial than fetishizing a tv show to the point of ridiculousness? we are all being trivial, it's a given. i would be very interested in knowing exactly what the "important topics are.

you all can fight it out amongst yourselves. i think i'll dance.

If you bloggers were born and bred in New York City you might have a clue to how ridiculous you sound.

Hello, Hello, I told you never to call me here!

If you bloggers were born and bred in New York City you might have a clue to how ridiculous you sound.

Hello, Hello, I told you never to call me here!

Gavin, you are right that Pete and Trudy are perfectly matched! LOL

The Charleston is an awesome dance and they were very cute doing it together. Fanofmad, a couple does not need to have a happy relationship or be "in sync" to dance well together.

nanabenz, I agree that Trudy and Pete did show they belonged. Trudy is a very shrewd executive's wife.

Thank you very much norman. And there I learned another little thing. Apart from the "Charleston" as a song I mean the thing with "Grant's tomb". Never heard that before.

I *loved* Pete and Trudy's Charleston and it certainly did speak volumes about them without saying a word. Love the layers of subtext.

The Charleston is such an awesome and fun dance. I had a similar WASP-y upbringing to theirs except more recently, and if you can believe it, in my elementary school around 1990 we were taught the Charleston, foxtrot, and several other vintage-era dances too!

I don't think we were expected to actually use this knowledge when we we grew up though, but I wouldn't have minded having an opportunity to. I really enjoyed learning those dances and can still remember most of the steps.

Hated having to dance with boys at age 9-10 though. I remember being paired up by the teacher with a *very* Pete-like boy who was a huge snob, constantly bragged about his Mayflower ancestry, and was totally oblivious to the fact that he was the world's biggest dork and everyone in school mocked him behind his back. He was really mean to me so I don't feel bad about saying this. LOL.

A couple does not need to have a good relationship to be "in sync"??? This is a marriage, not a dance competition. They barely were comfortable being in their own home together so far.
And what about the time it would take to learn the dance that well as a couple?
In order to learn to dance that well it takes time, lessons, and partners with good energy together.
Pete and Trudy have never even mentioned going to learn dancing, danced together that we've seen, nor have gotten along well enough to bother. It just rang false to me, like it was more for the show than their relationship story.

fanofmad
sorry but i have a different opinion. it rang true to me. as youngsters in the 50's of the class they belonged to they each very likely were sent to ballroom dancing lessons. i'm way younger than them and kids by age were sent. so they both could have known how to dance before they met and than later developed their own couple thing together. remember trudy said she grew up in country club just like that one. maybe they played the same kind of music.

fanofmad:
You also have to remember that a few months have past so how do we know that Pete & Trudy haven't loosened up a little (especially Trudy & her desire for a child). Pete also received that co-promotion to Head of Accounts...I don't know about anyone else but that's enough to make me want to dance the Charleston (hehe heh). Whatever the marital situation, I had a blast watching the actors move what their momma gave them!

Ritt1: Excellent observation...

Thanks to all for your comments responding to my thoughts about P&T dancing. I guess I have to confess I don't understand, but Ritt1 did make a very interesting point, and I actually can see how Pete would be able to Perform when it suits him.

A lot what has been said seems true. I remember a couple of mid to late sixties hit songs, one called "Winchester Cathedral" and the other with the line "Loving you has made me bananas" that were obviously faux 1920s songs. (Maybe they originally WERE '20s songs but they actually sold records in the 1960s.)

I took middle-class dance lessons in the early sixties. We learned the waltz and fox trot. I knew what the Charleston was, but I don't remember whether we learned it. (One of the three teachers in the class later became Miss Massachusetts in the Miss America Pageant, and I can say that I once had a dance with her.)

That episode of "Mad Men" seemed to contrast the traditional with the modern deliberately. The Country Club with its Derby Day theme was stuck in the 1890s and 1920s while the gang that got stuck working in the office on a Saturday ended up getting Peggy stoned on marijuana for the first time. That was very 1960s.

I don't agree with primobabe about Pete's status as a doomed relic. In a subsequent episode he tries to persuade a client to buy advertising in magazines published by and for African-Americans. And he gets his head handed to him for his trouble. Maybe he will change a lot over the next decade, maybe not. The jury is out as to whether he is young enough to learn new tricks.

They did an amazing job with this dance. I am such a big fan of the dance. It takes a lot of talent to do this. I would love to see more.
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