.....Auburn Annie.....Great topic and post.

So sorry I haven't chimed in sooner. Your post is splendid, and very topical to Season 3.

Overwhelmed with work and school, but wanted to give you a shout-out in any case.

My question for the moment is, what on earth did you have for dinner?

Peggy was trying to adjust the feng shui in her new office. She is hoping the potted fern will offset the urine stains on Freddie's old couch. She has turned the cushions over and rearranged the furniture, but everybody knows what's lurking under the cushions.....

.....Oh, bloody hell.....

I have no idea what triggered that dream - I seldom dream TV characters, or real people for that matter. But boy, was it vivid!

...Auburn Annie...Fantastic post with incredibly important history. ....Dry Manhattan, a high 5 to you for not letting this post go unaddressed.

AA, you're doing a huge service to let people know of President John F. Kennedy's PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN, and the Report released on October 11, 1963. ....(All of which is new news to me)...!!!!

Just imagine if President Kennedy had lived, how different (better) the status of women might have been in the intervening 46 years....hom much quicker "progress" for women might have been.

....Just one more example of how his death "changed history." (Smile...is there such a thing as "changing history?" ....but you know what I mean).

Kennedy's COMMISSION ON WOMEN Report was eclipsed and all but forgotten in the media by the truama of his death and the subsequent pre-occupation with the Warren Commision Report.

....And more on the largely "forgotten" and/or "unknown" PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION ON THE STATUS OF WOMEN...

Do you think that Jackie Kennedy was an important reason that such a commision was formed? (I can't imagine that a man married to a "Mamie Eisenhower" or even a "Lady Bird Johnson" would form such a commission -- although Lady Bird, from what I've read, was a strong woman... (owned Radio Stations in TX, ran the Beautify America campaign).

Lyndon Johnson focused on getting the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964 passed, and he rightly deserves much credit for that....However,

On my theory that nobody (not even a country) can stomach too much change at one time....I have an idea that the "Women's Movement" was marginalized (partly because of other priorties).

There were OTHER REASONS, too (IMHO), which I won't go into here.

...Not to beat a (dead?) horse, but....(I am a woman)....

Then there was the Viet Nam War which bled us dry emotionally, sprititually, financially, etc...coming right on top of Kennedy's Assassination....

The last thing anyone wanted was the "upheaval" of home and family life, right when the tradtional role of women as nurturer, care-giver, comforter...in short "home-maker," literally...was perhaps felt to be needed most in those "changing times."

BUT WHAT GETS ME...

...is this: That the period between 1972-1982 was relatively " trauma free" -- (I think of it as a "resting, or recuperation period" from the 1960's) ...AND YET...

THE EQUAL RIGHTS AMENDMENT, passed by Congrss in 1972, and given a 10-year-time limit in which to be ratified by at least 38 states -- fell 3 states short of the needed 38 at the end of 1982.... Ten whole years in which it could not garner the support to become law!

So it failed and died in 1982. A practical defeat...but eqaully important, a big MORAL defeat for women who understood its significance.

It was the "signal" for the "anti-women's lib" group to put women back in their place psychologically.

IMO, the defeat of the Women's Equal Rights Amendment in 1982 ushered in an era of "BACK-LASH" against all the things the ERA stood for...

Strong women who had stood up for all women were ridiculed as "BRA-BURNERS" and "LITTLE OLD LADIES IN TENNIS SHOES."

That post-defeat-period, which began in 1982, was characterized, among other things, by
a largely-successful attempt to paint female Women's Rights supporters as:

1. Anti-family,
2. Un-sportive of home life, apple pie
and Americana,
3. Mal-contents who either "couldn't get
a man;" were unhappy in their
marriages; or married to "wus'es" (even
that slang term is a derrogation of
females)...

and the most pervasively ingrained
supposition of all...

4. Un-attractive, and probably lesbians.

One of the most depressing things about this successfully-painted "image" of Equal Rights Amendment Supporters was that it was endorsed and believed in by almost equal numbers of women at the time! AND... this was evidently the historical view passed down to a younger generation of women...who, coming along into their pre-teen and teen years in the l980's evidently silently vowed not to be one of "those"
pushy, shrill women....!!!

How sad, and how ungrateful...if it's true that some younger women took that view of the pioneers who fought for the ERA.

SO THEN,...next... we had the era of "BAY WATCH;" the rise of "LOOKISM;" all the "how to please/attract a man" books; and the return to the "truth" that snaring a man was still a young women's FIRST PRIORITY--- (although now somewhat "disguised" by the ROUTE women took to achieve that ---i.e.-- 'you get into Harvard, and you get a shot at snaring the male cream of the crop').

Is it co-incidental that the 1980's also saw the "re-institution" of the pursuit of wealth and materialistic goals?

I'm not saying that women have not made strides in the last 27 years...but if anyone denies that women are NOT STILL (although more covertly) second class citizens in every way...they're drinking the Kool-Aid... playing ball in a parallel universe...with Roger.

MY ABSOLUTE LAST WORD ON THE SUBJECT:

http://www.equalrightsamendment.org/

According to info obtained from the above site, on July 21, 2009, Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney will re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment in the United States House of Representatives...in an attempt to get ratification of what was denied 27 years ago.

Right on Carolyn!

To paraphrase Winston Churchill:....

We will never give up....we will never give up...we will never.....

.....Go, jackie!!!

Yeah, jackie...interesting, thought-provoking posts. Good, informative reading, thanks. You go, girl!

You, too, AA!

.....I couldn't possibly comment intelligently on all of this, so won't, but every factual point both of you have brought up are outstanding.

Very, very educational, thank you.

I never recommend threads, but this gets an A+.

...Thank YEW for readiing it, 'youse guys'!

And thanks again to AA for tipping the ball into the court....

...and to Dry Manhattan for the "rebound."

(You're not really an "after-thought," DM --it's just that kissing YOUR ...erh.."ring," is kind of like hauling coal to Newcastle. (Insert laugh here ;)) Tee hee. (Yes, I read all the "eww's and ahs" you get, and-- to the credit of your readers-- the foot-stomping, clapping and curtin calls are much deserved).

(Aren't we just a virutal Love Fest? Hope we don't make new-comers flee or gag).

Fortunately, it all goes in cycles, n'est pas?

.....Of COURSE I am, and "No, no.....It's "yew," kid.

What the HELL are you talking about?

Let's mind-meld now.....it's a gag-fest.

.....Don't know on which planet you are residing, but, all I hear is a thundering silence, backed up by "lugey-hocking" noises.

Alas, like many, I carry on, unrewarded and unacknowledged. For the fuck of it.

"Amateur".....check it out from dictionary.com.....the word origin means "born out of love," which means for no other reason.....

"A person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons. Compare professional."

Laughing....it's a gag-fest alright... cough, gaaaag,
spit, burb...

And my goodness, modesty must be added to your list of virtues now, also?

Ok, ok...quick: . mind-melt, mind-melt, mind-melt..
oops, I mean "meld."

.....No wonder it took so long for my last post "to post." You were hogging the thread ---trying to get in the last word... (you know I jest....)!

Will "lugey-hocking" noises be be goggle-able?

( I finally figured out "shuffle, pout, kick," -- by hitting the "archived comics" button in my brain -- and that was a good excercise for me, as I'm verbal, not visual). You are obviusly both! (BTW, that IS from a comic stip? Yes? No? Or maybe totally original with you...)?

Yes, I hear 'ya loud and clear regarding "Amateur" vs "Professional," but I reconciled long ago to the fact that there's a lot of incredible talent that goes un-paid, un-rewarded, and un-sung in this life.

Doesn't mean it's not counting for sumptin' somewhere, sometime -- it's affecting somebody, believe me -- whether they know it at the time, or pull it out of their mind 40 years from now.

Goodness....Dry, honey, is there anything you want to share....I hope we are not going to be talking trolls again...everything was going so well.

zerelda...Glad you have addressed this...it's a bit scarey and shocking...kind of like a major meltdown that came out of no-where. I don't like to talk about individual posters, and never have. But, am making an exception here, because this is such a direct, personal attack--and I'm concerned about her.

I've read your posts for two seasons, and consider you fair-minded, decorous, and not prone to emotional outbursts. So I ask you to be the judge of the above "inter-change." Was anything said by me that would have so offended as to cause the explosion of vulgarity, etc.?

(Having read this poster's previous comments (somewhere on some post) about any poster had to be "thick-skinned", etc....(as well as her posts wherein she does a lot of "back-and-forth ribbing,")... I thought she would "get" my sense of humour!

(I even followed my ribbing by the sentence "I jest" --just to make sure she knew I was kidding her -- I think her posts are extremely clever, witty and sophisticated -- so I thought she would "get me!"

Evidently not...She is evidently quite sensitive...and I am truly sorry for upsetting her -- that was the last thing I thought I was doing -- or ever wanted to do!! I was "joshing" because I thought she was "strong enough to take it" and because I "thought" we had a rapport. How she could think that I was anything but admiring of her work, I don't know. Had I not thought she had a sense of humor that allows one to make fun of themselves too (in fact I've seen her do it to herself in her own comments -- just as you, SC, and alot of us do -- ) -- I would have "tip-toed" very carefully and never let down my guard.

Talk about "Trolls"....this vulgar and ugly "attacking" is definitly one of the signs! I never figured her for this kind of behavior, though.

Maybe it's all a "big mistake," somehow? I'm willing to forgive, forget and move on. (In fact, I would like to see all (of my) comments on this particular thread removed. I haven't said ANYTHING I"M ashamed of, but I don't like being part of a "spectacle," and always try to steer clear of same).

I know that you and this poster are "long-time friends" on this site...so maybe you can give me some insight.

.....My deepest apologies to Auburn Annie, z, SCfan, and any others upset by my pulling a Polar Bear.

I'm very humbly sorry I trolled out on your otherwise excellent thread.

I was really, really, really mad.

Sorry, j-m, got no insights and am confused as hell. Dry, whatever went on here, you don't owe me any apologies. This isn't the first thread on the Forum to go up in flames, and I am betting it won't be the last. Just wish I had a clue......

I agree with z, Dry...anything you want to share....we're listening.

No need to apologize to me, I'm not upset...just concerned about you.

.....Apparently, being kind and nice and welcoming is taken by many as a sign of weakness, and an invitation to take a great big poke in the eye with a stick.

I guess that pretty much means I will never be that kind, nice and welcoming person, ever again.

Good job, jackie.

....No, Dry Manhattan, please do not stop being that kind, nice and welcoming person which you very definitly were...and can continue to be.

I know that my words will probably sound insincere to you. I obviously still have much to learn about how I come across to people. I am so sorry for the offense and anger it caused you.

.....Sorry, but I cannot even address your comments right now.

I'm seriously, incredibly upset, and feel unfathomably misunderstood and betrayed.

Well, I've gone back and re-read everything about a couple dozen times....maybe she didn't mean her comments in a bad way? maybe she was just joking around like she said?

All I know for sure is that I am just sick of this crap. I hate to be cliche, but why the hell can't people just get along? Turn the other cheek, go to another thread, or maybe just walk away from the computer for awhile. There are no rules that say a person has to respond to any of these posts.

No wonder we have so many Maddicts who prefer to lurk and not post. Sooner or later we all get flamed, and it is not pleasant, even if you're not involved.

Just for the record, I loath the "F" word and anyone who uses it diminishes themselves in my book, no matter how glowingly brilliant their posts. All the words in the English language available to tell someone to take a hike, and people fall back on that one. Talk about a cliche.

That's all, I'm finished....bring on the flaming piles of dung....

.....Well, that's my mantra, but does anyone listen?

NOT.

.....I'm very very sorry, zerelda. (And by the way, aren't you the author if a couple of rank "pee" jokes, recently???)

I guess I am just fueled by the copious use of the dreaded "Eff Word" on other "cool" forums. Forii. Whatever. Say, for instance, THE BASKET.

What's the term?

You are right, and I do not disagree......Must be those conflicting "Sybils."

However right you are, there is something just very satisfactory about the Eff Word.

People do use it, it IS part of the lexicon, and you must give me that I have used it most sparingly.

Z...thank you for your "steadying" comments. Breeding always shows.

I have re-read my comments and in the light of day (as opposed to near-midnight) -- they sound flippant to me too, Dry....

But that's my failing...it has nothing to do with you...the "Ring" comment -- just me trying to be funny, and obviously failing miserably...as also was
the "hogging and having the last word comment..." Those are the kind of things I might have said "in person" to someone well-aquainted with my ribbing style. I also failed to realize that given the history of this site, the "having the last word" comment is not particularly a comic topic. (I can't help it if I'm not funny! Wish I were).

Again, so sorry. Let's just chalk it up to a bad night.

...and my last (hopefully kinda' funny, wanta' make-you-laugh) thing: ...

....About the "Ring" comment (and the more times I read it now, the more I cringe Dry...but look at it this way...if you're somebody who gets their "Ring" kissed alot...doesn't that make you somebody important?!...at least that's the thought I was trying to convey to you -- that your talent and ability garner a lot of (well-deserved) praise -- just count the number of admiring comments you have on your "Smoking" essay alone.

ANYWAY...back to the (hopefully) smile-worthy part: I was channeling a very, very wryly funny friend I had years ago, a smart-as-a-whip African American (female) lawyer, who said about her managing partner or demanding client (or somebody like that):

"If he was THE POPE I'd only have to
kiss his RING."

She said it so off-handedly (yet with a slight, resigned disgust) ...that it was hilarious...and I've never forgotten it (nor had an opportunity to use it)...so that's the back story of that...again, no excues, but I thought you might enjoy a good line...but you've probably already heard it.

Enough from me....

Jackie, in all honesty, I still don't see where you said anything that was any worse than what has been bantered back and forth by all of us that regularly post on this Forum. Maybe I'm missing something, it wouldn't be the first time. At any rate, you have apologized, and you seem sincere to me. Now if you'll just scarf down this plate of oysters.....

Dry, just get over yourself. When Ruthsgirl came out of nowhere and said all those awful things to me, you said I should just forget it and not hate her, she was just a Maddict gone awry. Whatever Jackie said and however you took it, right or wrong, it is the same situation. Let it go and move on. Life is too short and you are too intelligent to carry on carrying on.

No, you are right, you are actually beside yourself, and I hate to see you this way.....excuse me, read you this way. You are a nice gal, Dry, and you add so much to our Mad Men conversations, but you are starting to sound like the very folks you are always protesting about. I think I shall bow out of this particular conversation. I guess I should not have stuck my two cents in to begin with.

.....Stop now.

.....Wow. Check out how this forum has come to a grinding halt!

Good job, ladies!

You must be so proud of your conquest(s).

Jackie, if you are still around, I do want to thank you for posting that information and link re: the ERA. It has been awhile since I have read anything on that subject. I am not happy that Illinois is still lagging behind. It is time we got moving on this. Again, thanks.

I'm sorry it happened to you, Dry, but, I have to agree with Z...sooner or later it does happen to us all...and always when we least expect it...I would bring up my own unfortunateness(es), but, I'm sure no one needs any more reminders of all that....it's very humiliating and infuriating (to put it mildly) and hurtful beyond belief. Partly because you find yourself crying over something so abstract and out of your control. I empathize more than you imagine.

BUT... if jackie IS a troll and DID mean all that in the way you think and not in a kidding way, the more you show your indignation (again TOTALLY justified) the more it plays into her agenda. (I read over it all again and again, too, and I honestly can't tell if it was intentionally mean or just a more intense version of all our own nonsense over the last few months...it's unfortunately not as clear-cut as Polar's stuff, IMO

Well, that's it...time for my turn dodging the flames, I guess.

I also agree with z in my opinion of your posts, Dry, I would miss them very much. I think they are very articulate and intensely interesting to read.
You add too much to this forum to let this throw you for a loop.

I can totally see how it would, but I think I know you well enough to know you have the gumption to just flat out say it's not worth your time to give a possible troll the satisfaction.

I know that's easy for me to say since I've had many months now to get past my own embarassing situation forum-wise, but, I just want you to know I get that you'll be over it when you're over it and I understand.

Take Care.

.....I appreciate your kind words and support, I really do. One voice is better than none. I won't even open up the whole "loyalty" can of worms.

It's not my place to say who is or is not a troll, or to judge or quantify anyone else, I don't think, but I know what I read, and how I read it, and the aftermath has plainly proven that interpretation is not wrong, and then some.

That particular cat is not going back into that particular bag, ever again, and I'd say there are several cats running around at this point. Always were, they're just less subtle about it now.

The sad thing is, there are plenty of people who have those same feelings, and we all know how much human nature loves a good, gratuitous pile-up.

I'm not embarrassed. Why should I be? I didn't start this, and would never pull this random crap on someone else (okay that once), even if they deserved it. I think PLENTY of things about PLENTY of people here, every DAY, but I keep it to myself, because everyone deserves to have fun here, and deserves to have "friends."

Ganging up on a perfectly good, hard-working poster for sheer folly, or I don't know what motivation. I don't think like that, I never will, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I guess that makes me the nonconformist here.

What's happened here is deplorable, and completely gratuitous, and anyone enjoying this, whether they are participating or not, should feel like crap about it for a long time.

Thank you again for your kind words. It means a lot.

I didn't mean you are or should be embarrassed, Dry...I know you didn't start it. I just meant it's embarrassing when one feels singled out, which trolls do...that's how they get you on the defensive...

Call me dense, Dry, but I don't understand how you're "ganged up on" -- I read over all this and just can't see it....enlighten me.

I see how what jackie posted could be taken different ways, but I don't see how anyone else joined in her opinions.

For the record, "what happened here" is no worse than what happened to any number of the Maddicts over the years this forum has existed, and it is not fatal....if it were, I'd have been dead long ago....and so would Drink and Mambo and Z and many many others who have had the flamethrower aimed in their direction...so, I for one am done stroking your bruised ego, it's time to move on, I did and they did, and you need to....it's normal and natural to feel everything you've felt...but don't lump us all in with the scum...we're not all poisoned (yet) by the bad apples.....

.....It's okay.....I'm not mad anymore, and certainly not at you.

I think the difference here is that it was so sly, and detailed and personal (didn't I just spend MONTHS fighting against JUST THAT here, by you-know-who?), and there was so much underlying resentment, from someone who I liked and respected so much, and had literally just gotten done high-fiving or whatever. Not just "some random troll" we don't know.

Obviously I'm sorry for my reaction, but that one came out of the last left field I ever expected, and I never did hear a single sincere retraction or apology, just more assassinating and manipulating, which is my one pet peeve in life.

Also, losing friends is never fun, and it hurts when you defend someone only to have them turn around in the space of 30 seconds and start with the acrimonious recriminations.

And the "Eff word?" Please. I sincerely doubt that is the worst thing ever to cross this board, which I'm qualified to say, since I'm usually on the other side of it, trying not to toss my cookies or covering my eyes or whatever.

Everyone has different sensibilities, but that one is definitely not at the top of my "worst" list.

I'm done with this - and still I just don't believe it.

What is WRONG with people???

In the case of trolls/internet stalkers.....a LOT.....

Hi Dry,
I'm sorry you had to go through all this. Especially, when you were being so nice and complementary. It just went to her head. Big time.
As it's been said, "It hasn't been the first time and it won't be the last" that this has occurred. I've had my bad experience too and to the point of having them stalk me on the forum undermining every comment I was making! Darn (I say Darn because Damn would offend Zerelda and my family) they even got my phone number and called me all kinds of names. It was awful. I used to write a lot on the forum and had a lot of fun and slowly I finally stopped writing much at all. As you all know. I know I will start again when the episodes begin because you just can't help it. They are so inspiring.
Oh yes, saying a curse word according to CNN news releases a lot of stress it's been documented. So use the word Fuck, Damn, Hell...whatever!!! if it fits the situation and it certainly did here!!! Hey guess what my favorite curse word is when I really get mad??!!
"sonofabitchingassholemotherfucker"!!!! You can use it any time Dry. In fact use it now to address this!!!!!!
It deserves it.
(Glad my family is not reading this, boy I would be put away for sure) Oh! What the Hell. This felt good, Dry! You got me out of the woodwork!!!!!

I did not say you invalidated me, dear Dry, I merely pointed out that when I was attacked by Ruthsgirl and said I was really, really hating her, you very wisely said "No, you don't. She's a Maddict who lost her way." I took that to mean "let it go, it is an ugliness not worth hanging onto".

That is what I was trying to say to you. Granted, I obviously was not seeing the same ugliness in Jackie's posts that you were seeing. I apologize for that. I was reading her posts as lighthearted, teasing banter. You read them immediately as something different. But the whole tone of your immediate response was so sudden and jarring to me that I was thrown for a loop, I guess.

I know it must have been very confusing and disappointing and, yes, even hurtful when no one seemed to see the same ugliness in the posts that you were seeing. Again, I apologize. You expected support and did not get it. I'm very sorry.

Ruthsgirl's attack on me had no hidden meaning, it was right out there..."Zerelda, you are a nasty person with an inflated ego and you are always telling other people what to write"....or words to that effect. Gosh, that still stings. But I don't hate her, 'cause in one respect she is right. I took you to task for using that one particular word I do not care for. I had no right to do that. I can only say in my defense that I have in the past had that word flung at me like a slap in the face on a daily basis. That time was long ago but the hatred and bitterness that word evokes are with me still.

However, just because I have hangups over certain words doesn't give me the right to try to censor other people. I apologize for that too. When I think of the wonderful posts of yours that I have had the pleasure of reading on this Forum, the thought of anyone censoring your words is more than slightly appalling.

Dry Manhattan, I am offering to you my most sincere "I am sorry" for the part I played in this most unfortunate and ugly affair. I can do no more than that. Please accept.

.....Nora.....Where have you been? And you forgot "shit."

Thank God my family isn't here to read this - we're Catholic. I apologize again for offending my fine fellow-posters with my spicy language. (But damn, sometimes it really does do the trick.)

Nora, OMG, are you serious about that stalking thing? Where was I when all that happened? How is that possible? Weren't the moderators stepping in back then?? I thought I had it bad - that is truly frightening! Glad no one knows my real name - I'd be dead by now.

z.....Well, all you have to do is look up there to see my own total confusion.

For about ten seconds, until I realized, disbelievingly, exactly what was really happening. AGAIN.

It was subtle, but you can't help but be conditioned, by now, by the ever-present treachery in a place like this to spot it earlier, rather than later.

Any tiff like this DOES bear analysis and criticism. In this case though, it's not as simple as me just having a great big chip on the shoulder.

My swift reaction came from dealing with this over, and over and over, from all quarters, trying to REASON, which is a mistake, and watching various people with a "deep lack of character" try to tap-dance both into, and out of, the ugly mess, throwing knives the whole time, all the while swearing up and down that is not what they are, in fact, doing.

At the risk of being incredibly tiresome, I don't "do" that dysfunctional bullhockey, and simply decided (okay it was a fit of passion) that a swift and deadly shot to the heart was in order. End of story.

I'm sorry, it did seem vicious, but I just don't "do" dysfunctional, and no longer feel compelled to burden myself with other people who do love to play those games.

And for WHAT??? Is the main point here.....

It upset a lot of people and disrupted the forum, which is always regrettable, and I'm truly sorry for my part, but I still don't believe my eyes. Mostly what I feel now is grief and disappointment.

With all THAT being said, I don't want anyone, for a second, to think that I think I'm better than all this.

There is plenty about my behavior on this forum, every day, that deserves plenty of criticism but, again, I'm human, sometimes do less than my very best, admit that freely, and ask for forgiveness.

z.....That is a very thoughtful and gracious post. I'm both impressed, and moved. Thank you for restoring (some) faith, and please accept my apology again for being crude and shocking you.

.....Nora, you are soooooo funny. I don't know where you've been, but I wish everyone would come back, now.

.....z.....How about this - I promise never to use "The Eff Word" here ever again.

It won't be easy, because I do love it so, but I will make that promise to you now.

.....One more thing, and then we should all move forward so we can have fun again, and that is, I would never overtly ask anyone to fight my battles for me.

One, because it compounds and prolongs a matter, and two, for their own protection.

If they do it of their own accord it's okay, but then they're exposing themselves to the same attack, a whole "devisive" thing involving the whole forum, and just because I have a lousy reputation is no reason to ruin your own.

Since I don't agree to a big pile-up on my personal head, I can't, without being a giant hypocrite, condone the same thing on someone else's head, even if the situation seems to warrant that.

It's just a qualifier to cover my butt, not a mandate.

Obviously, anyone and everyone is totally free to do whatever pleases or moves them.

Okay? Okay. Let's have fun now.

Ah, go ahead and say it, if you gotta, Dry. As John Wayne said, "a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do".....or something like that. I'll just put my fingers in my ears when you do....

Nora, what an awful experience for you. Please don't let it keep you from this Forum. You are a Maddict, as SCfan calls us, and we need your insights on Season 3.

I think maybe it was NancyinOhio who thought of "Maddicts" for us waaaaay back there...or somebody....anyway, it wasn't me...but I do love it so, don't you guys?...sooooo descriptive of our addiction.

As to that f word....well, I can't help it, but all this jogged my memory of when I was taking my turn roasting on the spit all those months ago..."Seems only yesterday....there I was, posting my little heart out and then all of a sudden this big ol' furry thang started chasing me...." uh....never mind....

As I was saying....in the midst of trying to fight off the attacker/troll....I got told (in addition to many other upsetting comments) to go fuck myself! Now, this particular phrase has always confused the hell out of me...that such a grand activity ever got be used as an insult....I mean..... I would if I could......wouldn't you? Sadly, not very possible (without electricity and/or batteries, that is).

I believe I posted (after I picked my teeth/lower lip off the floor) that same thought...to which, (I recall it being zerelda-- do you remember that, z?), replied that Yes, she would (if she could) as well...ANYWAY...that IS one "insult" I have never quite understood why it's always thought of as a BAD thing! Language is a strange thing....

Just my lame two cents on that....and Dry, that never upset me, I'm sure you know (your timely use of fuck to make a much needed point up there) and the reason I posted for you to move on is because it truly is a waste of your time, that isn't the first (God no!) and it won't be the last troll who will decide to attack us...they're undoubtedly plotting right now....ick.

And Nora, that is truly spectacular...gotta remember that one!

ha

And, Dry...did you ever see Meg Ryan on that show that used to be on Bravo where the film school guy asks everyone their "favorite curse word"?

She said "F**k me" and Gary Sinise said his was (among a whole string of "f**k" variations) "Wanna f**k?" ... both of which I find hilarious.

(z, I used the asterisks for your benefit) heeee You know I'm kiddin'....

.....Other sites, which shall remain nameless, use that and many other words, but that is no excuse for my bad behavior.

That's what these #$%^&*() are for.....

In a theater, you project to the "highest" seat, right? Which is what I should be doing.....not banging it out to the cheap seats.

There are probably ten different ways I could have handled that, including "walking away," but my mercurial temper got me this time, and obviously I regret it.

SCfan, didn't know about that conflict you had, either.....that's a shame.....

Now, I'm going to apologize to jackie, regardless of my feelings about that exchange (and they are myriad), and what relationship we will or will not have, and try harder not to be the person she was painting with her words, if that's what I really am.

It seems there are just going to be those people who view a forum as some kind of battleground for dominance, which I will never get. When you live in a village, and you behave badly, it becomes everyone's problem, and that's true here, too.

It's just wrong that there are great posters not here because of crap like this. It's just wrong, and I'll never get why it just HAS to come out, and end up like this.

Well, Dry,
It hasn't ended up anywhere. We're all still here...fat and happy! He, He like hippopotamus floating belly up in nice cool waters.
z...thanks for your personal explanation of the word. No one ever knows why we react the way we do at times and it's nice to know...
I'm honored to be called a "maddict". z and sc, I believe it was 60's child who came up with maddict and then we voted on one of the variations. I really like it!
Dry, it was very nice of you to apologize to Jackie. I hope we can all be friend maddicts.
Love to all and have missed you all,
Nora

Yes, we're all still here and we will continue to appreciate the wisdom and insight. Please don't be discouraged from keeping up the great forum that we have!

(I'm a big fan of the f-word by the way ;-)

What is it about that word that makes people so fond of using it? I decided to confront my dislike of it by talking to some friends (7) last night. Lo, and behold, every one of them confessed that it was their favorite to use when deeply angered or even mildly upset. They also admitted that they would never use it in front of family or someone whose good opinion they valued. Oh, the stunning variations they came up with.

We are all of the same generation, and I am wondering if growing up when that particular word was considered the ultimate no-no doesn't contribute quite a bit towards their guilty pleasure in using it. Perhaps it says to them that they are truly adults, and if they want to swear like the proverbial sailor, well, who's going to stop them.

Most did admit that they are still shocked to hear someone use it in general conversation, however, and they one and all decry the casual use of this word by young people. It seems they would prefer it remain the ultimate word you can never say in polite society.

I still loath it, but am willing to accept that this is just me, so I will refrain from tsk, tsking my fellow Maddicts when they feel the urge to express themselves.

Z - you're still allowed to tsk, tsk us! I think your analysis makes a lot of sense - that it's kind of the ultimate rebellion. But still, I think that kind of language should only be permitted around like-minded peers who know each other.

I still think it's completely inappropriate in polite company and I am dismayed at my generation's inability to understand that, as well as our stagging lack of manners and courtesy in many other respects. Apologies on their behalf!

I like it, too...but, I agree it should mainly be used as a sudden attention-getting kaboomie to get a point across (Dry's use recently, for instance)

It sure does get attention, doesn't it?

But, it does tend to lose it's power to shock if used indiscriminately.

.....Nora, now, you stay here - don't pop out like you've been doing.

z.....You hit the nail on the head, I think. I can remember my mother telling me that pretty much NO ONE used the "eff word" in her day, and how dead-stop shocking it was when someone did.

Nowadays, it's everywhere.

Once, long ago, I had a boss, who I thought was the most mannerly man I had literally ever met.

One day, he gave me a dictation tape, which I finished, but at the end, he had accidentally left his recorder on during a phone call.

The stream of profanities and vulgarities, as well as the emotion directed at certain people, actually singed my ears and I almost fell out of my chair.

not not.....No need to apologize for me, since I've done it to excess already, but you are entitled to your position.

I say it under my breath in the house and car, but I've literally never said "F-you" to a person before, and I'll probably never do it again.

Somehow, though, it just seemed to fit the situation in my mind. I (and the others on this forum, too, if you read into it) was being viciously and slyly attacked, so I took the most absolute and direct route.

Sorry, but I have no intention, whatsoever, of putting up with that from anyone on here.

The Chinese proverb, 'One moment of anger = a thousand moments of sorrow,' is a good one to live by.

I can't believe this thread is still going.

One thing I know we are going to see more of now that people are piling in, but I can't stand self-righteous people whose main reason for being here is to hop from thread to thread admonishing and complaining.

That really makes me mad.

.....Not you, not not.

(That's a lot of "nots!")

I just see some of it popping up here already on other threads (no names mentioned), and it's a shame.

It strikes me every time as a person trying to stir things up and be divisive, rather than the opposite, which is what everyone should really be doing.

Not that I'm telling everyone what to do.....oh, never MIND!!

I like that proverb, Dry.

I've posted this at least twice before on the forum, but it's good and bears repeating (what with the new season and new "crop" of you-know-whats in the wings!)

"Be kind ~~ for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle"

I just love that.....try to live by it, but slip up at times, as everyone here well knows.

.....Oh, that is nice. From where does it originate?

Some sources say Plato, others Philo, Dry....so I'm not actually sure of the origin.

I just love the sentiment...it kind of sums it all up...like walking in others' shoes and all that.

One never knows what others are dealing with...in other words ~~ no one has it easy ~~ if they're still breathing, I guess!

Golden Rule and all that sort of rot.....
ha?