.....Blah blah blah, whatever.

Those who know me, know I'm full of crapola.

Very beautifully written.

Goodness, Dry, what a wonderfully poetic and evocative post.

I'm moved and touched by your post, Dry.

I gave up smoking 5 years ago, but I am going to take it up again when I turn 70! Great post-very well written.

I don't miss smoking... at the moment. It's been 2 years... this time. I quit once for over 4 years and went back to it. Usually starts with new friends, a new situation, and "hey, can I have a drag of that?" and there is no turning back. I think you'll find if you take it up, it might be disappointing. No, it will be disappointing. There will be the first time you really inhale and likely get sick to the point of puking. At 14, I was willing to keep trying because I wanted to look cool, be "bad" and look older. At 70... if you don't say "to hell with this!" after that experience, what you'll find is that you get a nice buzz on the first one of the day... for a while. Then the rest of it is all hoping for that buzz and never getting it, while going up stairs just gets harder. I remember I used to decide to go to bed and then stay up and smoke several ciggs instead. It was like I thought that just one more would somehow do something. It was about chasing something that wasn't really there. No wonder Don smokes. Hopefully, no more for me.

I love the way you wrote about smoking, while also revealing a lot about your parents and how you feel about them. Very poignant.

I am a non-smoker who loves smoking. I only permit myself the very occasional cigarette because I know I'd get addicted too easily. And, like you said, I can't help thinking that smokers (at least, the smokers of the past) seem to inhale their lives more deeply and hold it in a minute longer. But maybe that's just romanticizing it ;-p

On the other hand, I am really grateful that the anti-smoking campaign has been hugely successful, and fewer people smoke now.

MsFabulous, thanks for hitting us with some common sense! Glad you've quit.

.....Seeing Don and Betty at Lutece took me straight back to that photograph.

Does anyone else want to post some of the past threads that might be stuck in their memories (zerelda)?

If so, now's probably as good a time as any.....still a month to go (a MONTH!!)

There are so many *amazing* posts back there, it seems a real shame to leave them entombed and unread forever.....

What is the etiquette for posting another writer's thread, if they are not here? Pretty sure it's only cool to post your own, isn't it?

Anyway, if no one answers me, I might dig up some more.....

Both my parents smoked.

On our home movies, you can see my dad in the backyard with us, holding a smoke.

Dad quit when the 1964 Surgeon General's report came out. Ma quit once in 1975 but went back shortly thereafter, and quit in 1992.

By then it was probably too late. A year and a half later she developed a ton of smoking related problems. She is gone now - yep, lung cancer did it. That was 12 years ago.

I never started smoking mostly because I thought it was gross. I thought the kids who smoked in HS were gross. I never liked the habit at all.

.....MsFab.....Ditto what not not said.

Not a smoker (yet), but for about ten minutes, about ten years ago, cigar cocktail parties were all the rage. I remember Demi Moore appearing in public for about six months, always with a cigar - a couple of times hanging out the side of her mouth! - so attractive.

Anyway, I went to a couple, and I'm telling you, you don't have to inhale to be completely ill. It's sublingual. Barely made it home, and lost all desire to ever come in contact with a cigar, ever again!!!

As to the smoking, I can remember one week-long gathering I attended, about half of which were Europeans.

All the Europeans smoked, and none of the Americans did, which was a problem because we all liked spending every minute together.

So, for an entire week, we would line the south wall of the conference, dorm or hotel room, and the Europeans, Turks, Israelis, Czechs, etc., lined the north wall. That was their "side."

We had fans lined up on our side, and they got the window side.

They'd never met each other, and it WASN'T a cultural thing, but they would sit there, chain-smoking, NOT talking, and yet despite the bounty of silence they were completely bonding, like a secret society.

We were almost jealous, with our fans running.

Almost.

Well, Dry, I do remember you have posted a similar thread but when exactly that was, your guess is as good as mine. But, it is just as moving now as it was then to read. I know how you feel -- and I can say that (hackneyed as it is) -- because I really DO know...both my folks dying as a direct result of smoking for so much of their lives (Mom -- lung cancer & Dad -- bladder cancer/COPD) Feel free to dig mine (old anti-smoking related posts) up (when we were all posting about our parents/loved ones and how they smoked for 50+ years and ended up dying from it)...I know it has been discussed a number of times on this forum...we are a very sentimental bunch-- which is a good thing, to my mind. And, I agree it is a shame to leave all the gems everyone has shared buried so far back there...I'd enjoy reading anything you can "dig up" very much.

I saw that those links (to old threads about smoking) you posted on another thread a day or so ago had some of my old posts (anti-smoking...even my little tiff with Vesperae (sp?) which is fine...I didn't mind your "digging that up" at all...she and I decided to agree to disagree which is perfectly alright.

I do remember we'd post on those long-ago threads about how we all felt (and still do) like it had just happened (my own Mom has been gone 12+ years now (gone at age 74 a month shy of her 75th), and Dad since May 2006 (at age 88 , older brother (and only sib -- smoking AND drinking took him -- liver failure/chronic hepatitis) in April 2008....at 61 years old! There still is a pervasive ache in my heart...being the last survivor of my "original" family. One never stops missing and loving them, as you well know.

It is hard to lose loved ones period...but, to lose them to a preventable disease is hell on earth....all the what ifs and the if onlys....very hard.

If you feel like "digging up some more" stuff on me, Dry, I don't mind....if you can find the post where I was with my mom as she passed I'd love reading that again...got to see her "cross the river" and go to her parents and baby sister (in her own mother's arms!) waiting on the other "shore" (also, the day before she died, I'd had a vision of mom with her first baby (lived 2 days/a "Blue Baby") where she was in the clouds rocking her and saying "Mommy's here"....pretty intense....but yet wonderful. Which is hard for anyone who hasn't faced that particular chapter in life (orphanhood) yet to understand...how something can be the worst thing that's ever happened to you, and yet also be the most wonderful gift...all at the same time. Never had a "vision" before that and never have since....such a gift.

I think possibly some of our memories posts could be on that thread when Nora was sharing about having just lost her father...we were all offering our thoughts and prayers, etc. to her and sharing our own paths to travel through grief....good luck....looking forward to Memory Lane!

...and Nora, I hope you are, by this time, able to enjoy the happy memories of your Dad much more often than the sad ones.

Take Care....and don't be such a stranger!

.....I forget that one little article I read where the author said something about how "certain" white MM fans of a "certain age" start a thread, and it immediately disintegrates into a reverie of smoking and the resulting illness and death of loved ones.

Or, as our dear, departed Clayton is wont to say, ".....that reflexive crap."

It was sarcastic, but pretty funny, and it just seemed like they were talking about this forum.

Wish I could remember where I read that.

I know who posted that, Dry...if you think a bit, you'll be able to recall who... It was his "Mad Men-o-pause" thread....I think, anyway!
I agree it was hilarious....no doubt about that.
He also posted a great one about Don D. in the nursing home...loved that one.

Here's a good "memories" thread:

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2008/09/nora-paradiso.php

"Mad-Men-o-Pause" thread:

(I never said the guy wasn't funny...he just was, that cannot be denied)

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2009/02/mad-man-o-pause.php

Here's "Mad Men Talk" thread...the one with the comment about everyone's "deceased relatives"... I guess that's the one you were wondering about up there, Dry?

Not sure...but it has that comment in it about halfway down the thread....that particular thread is a mixture (some funny and some defensive stuff) about the "off topic" bit that originated around then....

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/talk/2009/03/mad-men-talk.php

I was at boarding school in the 50s and we were actually coached in the niceties of smoking. i.e., a lady does not smoke on the street or, indeed, anywhere unless sitting down. How to accept a "light" from a gentleman. Never hold a cigarette in your mouth.
We were not allowed to smoke on school grounds but there were frequent outings hosted by parents where smoking was permitted. I think every girl in my class smoked regularly by the age of 17.

60's chick...that does sound just like something that would have been thought important and necessary to a "young lady's" upbringing back then.

Neat post.

This is a great thread, Dry.....

.....No, SCfan, after getting badly flamed for posting "reflexive crap," I'm pretty much "clean."

And not sure the "flamer" was wrong on that one account, since a public forum really is not a therapist's couch. (But that's all the "due" I will ever "give" that particular poster.)

I really meant those posts from other Maddicts who "were there" in advertising and offices, etc., who aren't here now, and some of them were just amazing.

There were posts about art, literature, there was an illustrator who was very adamant about being addressed, etc., etc., etc.

Those people are SO smart and rich with the experiences.

As to Polar, he is the only man I know who types as fast as me. Too bad he got huffy and split. I'll never understand that.

I don't think anyone here has any hard feelings, do they? Except for the fact that he was so completely dogmatic about his position, and way too serious about himself.

I think you gotta have a thicker skin than that to hang out on a public forum, don't you?

I mean, at least I admit I have my head up my a** most of the time. You gotta be able to laugh at yourself, or the whole thing is just too serious and precarious.

I have my father's old Ronson Crown silverplate table cigarette lighter which sits in the corner hutch. Dad was practically a chain smoker until he had a heart attack and quit cold turkey. By then he had congestive heart failure and diabetes. Mom never smoked but lived with second-hand smoke all her life as her father - who died at 71 from emphysema - smoked like a chimney. She died from complications of stroke.

I saw what emphysema did to my grandfather and had NO interest in smoking. Oddly, only one of my siblings (out of 9) took up smoking, first cigarettes, then cigars for a while until HE had a mild heart attack in his early 40s, then quit. Fortunately neither my husband nor our children have ever smoked.

Having lived with it, and through the 50s and 60s I understand the allure. Even the Flinstones smoked, ads were everywhere, no one gave it a second thought. It was considered sociable, healthful, relaxing, a shared ritual. Have a martini or Manhattan, smoke a cigarette, eat a nice juicy well marbled steak - baked potato swimming in butter - yum!

I remember a bowl full of matchbooks from every resort and restaurant my parents visited - try and find such things these days, not even as wedding favors or hotel giveaways. The only place I find them now is casinos.

Dry, Polar Bear split because he's a troll and we called him out on it. I also said he's a molester that likes to humiliate women, and I stand by that comment. Read his bulls**t in SC's link; this forum is much more pleasant without him, and I hope it stays that way.

And I can't leave until I tell you how wonderful your post about smoking and your parents is. It's a lifetime captured in just a few paragraphs. And, please don't start smoking at 70; it's looming on the horizon for me (albeit, just a tiny speck, but it's bobbing in and out of view), and it's so, so young.

So, wait until at least 80! I'll start first, you can join me.

.....Mambo.....Oy - you are a hard nut and a purist......

I remember.....Might be a denial problem, just now.....I just want everyone to get along - is that so wrong??

Why why WHY????? (Sob!)

(Heh.)

That ad with "The Buttertons," CRACKS ME UP. Baked potatoes with a huge stick of butter jutting out the top.

And the butter is the ONLY image in color!

AA.....I have a whole BAG of matchbooks, I don't know WHAT to do with.....I can't just throw them away, can I??

SCfan.....Just want to acknowledge your story. Crazy things occur on one's death bed.....Inexplicably verifiable.

Someday, we can compare notes.

Mambo, I'm sorry if I brought up old woes...forgive me?

And Dry, I want everyone to get along, too...think we've got a snowball's chance in hell of that happening this season? Well, we can dream, anyway....

Pray.....pray very hard....

.....And wait, I will....Mambo!

It's a date?

I forgive you, SC, but you did nothing to forgive. In fact I'm glad you brought it up for any new posters to see the toxic waste he was.

And yes, it's a date, Dry. Meet me at 405 Madison Avenue. Anyone else care to join us?

I may still have some Virginia Slims from 1973 floating around. You bring the matches. Who wants to bring the vodka? But no oysters, please!

.....Sounds good. 405 Madison it is. The more the merrier.

You know who is the one who smokes like a fish, beside Roger who chain-smokes everyone else's cigarettes, is Betty.

That girl is going to come down with something sooner rather than later, if she doesn't take it easy.

Wonderful story Dry! I wish I could find it but there is a website where a guy has a bag of matches from the 40's - 60's and he made up a story about the person who owned them and all of the places that he visited. It was really interesting... I'm still looking for the link and will post it if I find it.

I collect matches and swizzel sticks everywhere I go. Like it was said, matches are getting harder to find and you might as well forget the swizzel sticks! Nobody has those classy little numbers anymore.

I have a scrapbook of photos, mementos, movie ticket stubs, swizzle sticks, sugar packets (empty), and matchbooks/covers (empty) from assorted restaurants (most now gone) from the "dating years" of my husband and me...from July 1969 to August 1976 (We dated 7 yrs!...a good thing, I guess, as it turns out, since we're coming up on 33 in a little over a month) one "set" (swizzle/matchbook/sugar packet) is all by itself on the next-to-the-last page...from Tony's Italian Specialties, a little hole-in-the-wall 'joint' (but very romantic!) where he proposed to me "in-the-booth-in-the-back-in-the- corner-in-the-dark" ~~ believe it or not! heeee)

Aaahhhhhh memories....

Hey, Mambo and Dry!.....

I'll be there! Vodka's on me (and some Boone's Farm for some retro "coolers"! hee

Plus, I'd like to try one of those "vintage" Virginia Slims ~~ just out of curiosity!)

....hope the elevator won't be broken!!!

Okay you New Yorkers, you are making me much too homesick for the place of my birth. Even though there are a few places in Chicago in which I can visualize Don Draper et al,, Chicago is not remotely like Manhattan and never will be.

Dry, what a beautifully written piece. I hope you have your own blog, as your writing deserves to be shared beyond us Maddicts. I too have old photos - there were roving photographers in those days - of my parents in restaurants like Tavern on the Green, the Stork Club, the Copa, etc. My mother, (thank, 60s Chick) would also never be caught holding a cigarette for a photo, but the ashtray in the pictures was evidence of the obvious. As a child, I thought she looked so elegant with the cigarette extended from her long, manicured fingers. Simultaneously, I was repelled by the smell as well as the dirty appearance of the cigarette butt. I never picked one up and never will. My mother died at age 48. Other relatives who looked equally cool with the cigarette-as-accessory died slow, horrible deaths from emphysema. Who would have known back then that something so apparently fun was so deadly.

SC Fan, you are so wonderful to share your dream with us. What a gift that must have been to have seen your mother as well as the baby sister. If comments exist that many of us Maddicts are of "a certain age," that's just fine with me. As far as I am concerned, it gives this forum a depth and richness that other forums lack. I'm proud to have lived to age 49!

And I do love my little collection of matchbooks and swizzle sticks. The matchbook from Windows on the World gets the tear ducts flowing every time I look at it. The one from the Algonquin conjures up the ghosts of the Round Table habitues. The one from the Polo Lounge makes me think of the directive I received from my boss to GET THE CLIENT DEAD-DRUNK BEFORE THE COMMERCIAL SHOOT so he can't change the script - yes, I was in a 1980s and 1990s version of SC. The client know exactly what was going on, and was a sufficiently good sport to acknowledge it and laugh about it.

So, I suppose the next generation will rave about the Passion of the Chardonnay. Lame.

"the booth in the back, in the corner, in the dark" - Oh, my God, SCfan, my husband teases me with that comment every time we go out for our anniversary dinner. I don't know where he ever heard the expression, but he always says he is going to ask the waiter for that particular booth, and the way he leers at me, I always laugh. We will be going out to celebrate out 39th in September. I know he has been using that line for 25 years or more. He also mixes his drinks with swizzle sticks we got at Trader Vic's in St. Louis on our honeymoon.

Dry, our matchbooks have all been tossed into a large brandy snifter. It is a sharp arrangement.

Z...it's from Flip Wilson's (TV show) "Geraldine Jones" character! "She"d" always talk about "her" boyfriend, "Killer" who would take her out and they'd sit "in the booth in the back in the corner in the dark"! We used to watch that show and when I actually received my engagement ring like that, it was priceless!

That "chick" had the best wardrobe on TV, not counting Cher!

ha!

I had forgotten about Flip Wilson - we loved his show. I was thinking it might have come from Sanford and Son with Redd Foxx. I remember how disappointed we were when Flip Wilson went off the air. He retired from show business and was never heard from again, as far as I know. So funny....the man, I mean.

Yeah, I was just looking at the clip of him as Geraldine on YouTube ~~ being interviewed by David Frost! Sooooo funny!

I hate to say it, but I think he has passed away, not positive about that, but I think maybe so.

He was a really funny guy and his show was a classic.

.....Oh my.....I think I am speechless, a state I'm not used to inhabiting.

And, "Wooooh, honeh, the DEVIL made me do it!"

z, some other "Flip-isms" were ~~~

"What you see is what you get!"

and

"Don't fight the feelin'!"

Hope you have fun at that 39th Anniversary dinner come September...with your own special "Killer"!

Sandy, I always loved that idea of matchbooks in a big brandy snifter...what a cool look!

...."He'p me, Liz-beth........Liz-beth.....this is the Big One....."

"She" had great clothes (in a '70's frame of reference!) ~~~ but, those legs.....!

If you go by that clip of Geraldine with Muhammad Ali, it looks like "she" invented the cellphone!

Go Geraldine!

I miss all those great old "variety" shows!

I would apologize for going off topic, but, then I remembered it's Dry's thread....

"....Liz-beth, I'm comin' to join ya, honey!"

What I loved about Sanford was that entire drawer he had FULL of all his "reading glasses"!

So hilarious.

...of course, that was a lot funnier back in my 20's than it is now at 58!

hee??

.....You know you're always okay with me.

And when you're not, I just smack you around a little.

Watch it, suckah! (channeling Aunt Esther) I still owe you some noogies from our stints as Todd and Lisa (Lubner)!!!

(grabs Dry's head over and rubs 5 to 7 super-strength noogies)

whew...that wore me out....Tang and egg salad sandwich break time!

.....I was hoping you'd forgotten about that.

And, OW!

...dontcha want some Tang, Dry?

...fresh out of the good ol' Norge!

.....No.