I don't recall that Roger introduced him as such....it's my impression that Don gave that name himself and Roger made up the names for himself and Freddie....my memory is hazy on this, however, so if I am wrong, please forgive.

That's how I recall it, too, Z...but, we both know that doesn't mean much!

LOL

.....Roger: I'm "Dick Dollars".....

Roger (indicating to Freddie): ....this is "Mike Moneybags".....and this is......"

Don: "Tilden Katz!"

(Laughter, all.....)

Don introduced himself as Tilden Katz. Don does not confide in Roger. They have fun together, shoot the bull, but it does not go farther than that. After "Six Month Leave" I doubt the banter will be much like it was before.

Does Roger even know that Rachel's husband is Tilden Katz? I'm thinking not. I think Roger just thought it was a funny name Don made up.

.....He didn't.....They were well into their cups, by which time everything is absolutely hilarious.

"After "Six Month Leave" I doubt the banter will be much like it was before."

Their camaraderie seemed to be back to normal in the season finale. Don even congratulated Roger on his engagement.

It's kind of sad that Roger is the closest thing Don has to a friend.

You are right,Everybody, I just watched it again, and it is Don who introduces himself as Tilden Katz. But why? Obviously not just for fun because at this point, Don had not decided to allow himself that luxury. I think he does after the final scene in The Mountain King, at least I hope so. Did he wish he had acted differenly when cofronted by Pete's attempted blackmail and not gone to Rachael as an escape but instead done what he really wanted and divorced Betty for her? Even before Betty threw Don out, Tilden Katz had obviously been on his mind since he found out about Rachael's being married to him, and I am still curious, though now chastised by my mistake.

I think it stung Don quite a bit to know Rachel turned around and married another man so soon after dumping him, and a proper Jewish man that her father would have approved of, too. That would be in his mind along with the memory of meeting them while he was with Bobbie B., an affair of which he is probably ashamed of. Plus, "Tilden Katz" is an unusual name.

.....I agree with z.....Draper had some real feelings for Rachel, I think they were both shaken up by the chance encounter, and I think using her husband's name in folly gave Don a tiny iota of childish satisfaction.

He may also have been thinking something like, "She's married? To a four-eyed guy named 'Tilden Katz?'"

Rachel's all married, calm and self-satisfied, and Don's life is a mess. She must have been a vision for sore eyes just then, especially in contrast to his seedy fling with Bobbie.

Yeah, I bet there were some regrets swirling thorough his mind, especially because he was still on the fence about his marriage at that point.

Watching the scenes again with Roger, Don and Freddie, I couldn't help but cringe for Don, having to act jolly and sit through something so sad and awkward.

He had to be stuffing some increasing dismay at Roger's widening moral void, and resentment at the cavalier, cut-throat attitude. ("It's just a man's life, right??)

Don's enough of a human being to feel really bad about it, and while he handled it beautifully (as anyone could something like that), who wouldn't want to hammer back an Old Fashioned and spin a few goofy puns.

janeeyre.....I wouldn't go straight to "friend" when talking about Draper's feelings for Roger.

Especially since Don fought for Freddie, and the division in their perspectives surfaced....."Your loyalty is becoming a liability."

One of DD's biggest gifts is the ability to stow and mask his true feelings, which is the mark of a very socially (thus professionally) successful human, in terms of persuasive relations.

It's critical in business to be liked, which means even if you don't like someone, they can never know.

The really important players should be able to think of you as a confidante and even a buddy. In their minds.....

It means you figure out a way to be the "yin" to your boss' "yang," whether it's there to begin with, or not.

While I do think they did have a unique synergy, Draper is getting an increasingly disturbing look at Roger's moral blankness.

We'll see, I guess!

.....In fact, jane, when I think about it, I don't see Don Draper/Dick Whitman as really liking (and certainly not trusting) anyone. He's not close to anyone.

He skates through life forging one-sided bonds for logistical reasons, but it goes no further. Not even with his wife.

Saying that, I would also say that Don DOES like Peggy, and trusts her to a large degree, and he DOES like Freddy. There is some identification going on there I think.

I think he likes Joan just fine, and politely tolerates anyone else who doesn't raise alarm bells.

He does NOT like Jane, and Lois should probably stay hidden for a year or two.

Don does love his children.....of all his relationships, Don is the most committed to his kids.

Which is why we love him, and put up with his crap (such as running off to California for three weeks without a word, for instance).

Fine posts, Dry....forgot only one thing....Don h-a-t-e-s (and would like to see dead)....Pete...and the reverse is true, as well...except Pete has great admiration/jealousy along with all that for Don...remember in the very first episode, Pete's muttering under his breath, ..."F**k You!" after Don's "...you'll die alone ... because no one will like you..." speech?

Those two are a complicated pair as to their dynamic.. theirs being one of the most fascinating relationships on the show. Peggy/Pete being the most fascinating (so far, anyway)....

.....Oooooo......I forgot about that......

But do you really think DD invests that much emotion as far as Pete? I get the impression he doesn't take Pete that seriously.....

I kind of see it more like swatting a really pesky fly.....could be wrong - it's happened before!

Like the playground bully.....you have two choices - kick some butt or be bullied forever.

You may be right, but if you are, and that's true, Pete doesn't know it. Which, actually, isn't saying much, since Pete isn't the brightest crayon in the box.

Don's brilliant that way. He manages to turn every potentially ugly situation around to his advantage, simply by remaining cool, polite, authoritative, and playing that particular person like a violin.

Don hiding whatever negative feelings about Pete (on the surface he appears grudge-free almost all the time) gives Pete room to metamorphose his hate into admiration and approval-seeking.

A case of "letting them come to you," kind of thing. Draper's other great talent is sizing up his various opponents.

And I agree - they are diametrically opposed, but the fact that they are constantly being thrown together just makes watching Draper handle Pete that much more interesting.

Yeah...I liked Don's retort to Pete by the pool in Cali, when Pete was droning on about arriving early so they could party:

"If you want a vacation, Pete, I can arrange that..."

Yeah, you're probably right about Don thinking of Pete as more of a major ass-pain than a real enemy (as in Duck) to be hated/wary of.

I think he can see the raw talent in Pete (it's there, just buried in all Pete's bull***t) and wants to bring it out, but hates the necessity of being the one to have to do it!

Don's cool almost to the point of being a sociopath. He's totally self-centered. We talk about his loving his children, yet he would have dumped them and run off with Rachel, if she had agreed. And even when she asked, "what about your children?" Don said "they'll be taken care of" or words to that effect.

I think Don hates Pete, too. He's everything Don's not: rich, privileged, pedigreed, socially connected. Don's just too smart to let it show and let it get the best of him. And he also uses Pete. I think Don hates Roger, too, for basically the same reasons. But he needs him.

Don only likes the underdogs, like Peggy and Freddy, who don't threaten him in any way.

Yes, Mambo, loved when Pete and Don were rushing to Bert's office (a Maddict posted after the epi's first airing that Pete "stumbled along after Don like a puppy"...so true!) when Pete threatened Don with telling Bert "the truth"... they stopped right before starting to remove their shoes outside Bert's door...and Don says something along the line of ..."why?? Because you're RICH???" and some remark about Pete's expensive haircuts.... you could just FEEL the contempt...Don despises those silver spoon types!

Well, yes, that's why I said the closest thing to a friend, not that Roger is his actual friend. Roger is the only other person Don seems to socialize with outside of work, apart from his mistresses.

I suppose Anna is his friend, but she seems more of a mother figure.

.....Ooooo.....Great posts!!......the plot thickens!

Mambo and SCfan, once again, you caught something very intriguing that I missed.

Now I feel compelled to go back and check out those epis again.

If Don was really sucking up to Pete's pedigree, was he aware that Pete basically lives at the bottom of the familial totem pole, and has always accepted that?

jane.....I think Anna is something of a rock to DW/DD. You're right about the mother thing......

A stark contrast to Betty, the child-woman.

No, Dry, I don't think Don is aware that Pete is actually, as you say, at the bottom of the totem pole (and, apparently, not as rich as others assume, since his father spent the family fortune). Don doesn't see shades of gray, only black and white. To him, Pete is the stereotype of a spoiled rich kid; he doesn't pick up on Pete's insecurities and desperation. Don has a huge chip on his shoulder and that affects his perception. I think he has coasted on his looks his whole life; he never had to develop any kind of real people skills. People flock to him with no effort on his part (like Joy said, "he's pretty and doesn't talk too much"). In an earlier thread I mentioned that he "watches" people and mimics their behavior because he never learned any of the "social graces" as a kid.

I still don't get the Anna thing, though. I think there's more to that story than meets the eye.

janeeyre, I am going to disagree about the return meeting between Don and Roger. Don put it off for an hour and and I think there was a little contempt in him reminding Roger "we don't know what's really going on" re- the Cuban Missile Crisis.

But I guess we will just disagree about that.

Season 1 Don does expend the energy to hate and be worried about Pete. He complains to Midge about Pete sizing up Don's office. Then after Roger's second heart attack there is that other discussion of offices. Season 2 is different. Pete's hero worship has less of the Oedipal kill-yr-idols challenge to it.

It is kind of strange how little Pete wants to prove he's accepted (taking the wives out to dinner, being told he was missed, any recognition). And how impossible Don find it all.

.....Mambo.....I might not agree with the absolute-ness of all those statements, except for one thing that makes me examine the whole thing again.

I have to tell you I was completely shocked in The Jet Set, when Don had just settled down to Mexican food on the patio with the Creepy-Sleeparounds.

Just after the introductions they ask Draper what he does, he mentions advertising, and then there is a lull.

In that lull, Draper tries to rescue the conversation in reciprocity by inquiring something about ".....so you're all well-off?"

There is a stark silence, and Morticia (Rocky) clucks her tongue in a disgusted way.

No one says anything, until Dr. Crazy Claus says something about not having a profession, which broke the tension. I thought it was funny too.

I LOVE how the writers include these horrifying social melt-downs for us to see, because they happen every day.

However, that's just not a faux pas I would ever have expected Donald Draper to make.

Great posts, all you guys. I am going back to the drawing board on the whole thing, and will look at Season 3 with new and better eyes!!

.....or is that Raqui?

portia's.....What did you think of Pete bringing back from California one bag of oranges for the entire office? What's that - 10?.....maybe 12?

I would think the proper thing would be to have a crate shipped to the office, so everyone can have one, but Pete lugs a bag on the plane!

Am I the only one who thought that was classic bone-head Pete?

Pete with the bag of oranges- example of an after thought.

Really, like he remembered somebody saying something about oranges on his way to the airport.

I can't blame him. After having his business partner disappear right before a meeting and having to reschedule all those meetings and find car services expecting anything else of him is unthinkable. That holds true of much more sensitive and thoughtful people than Pete

..........That's true, too.....logistics under duress.

However, with this, just about everything is intentional, either as a story point or as a red herring, so I never dismiss anything completely.

If Pete couldn't drive, where the heck did he get a bag of oranges? Did they HAVE them in the airports then??

The whole thing about Pete not being able to drive seems so symbolic.....and not only does Don drive, but was a car dealer.

Pete, living in New York his whole life, where many people don't drive, being brought up under sheltered (although inequitable) circumstances.....as a born-Californian, the thought of not knowing how to drive seems impossible to me! (I love my wheels!)

The contrast between Don being able to not only forge new, unlikely relationships, and find himself whereever and whenever he pleases, versus Pete's relative helplessness, kind of made me admire Pete a little bit for handling a scary situation, against the odds, despite being very much the fish out of water.

It was a little irritating to see Draper side-step his three-week AWOL campaign when Pete confronted him, and re-frame it as big strokes for Pete. So manipulative!

I just don't know if I fully trust Don Draper, and I'm not convinced that he's truly changed.

"Teflon Don" is a slick one!! And, with three seasons to go, he will surely indulge himself in at least a few more misdeeds, for our entertainment.

Interesting & really insightful posts, guys!

I know I've posted at least twice before about my theory that Anna and Don/Dick have had a child...still think that kid taking the piano lesson (one of MW's beautiful sons in 'real life') is the right age to be a "consequence" of the time Anna confronted Don/Dick at his used cars business...I just can't fathom how she could have asked him "What am I going to do with you?" and not had a good (a really, really good ~ and FUN!) answer pop into her head!

Let's be real...

Hey Dry, I'm probably older than you, so I remember oranges, lemons and other stuff (like stuffed alligators, shells, beach towels) being sold on the side of the highway in Florida, so I'm sure that was done in Cal, too. They may have even sold oranges in the hotel gift shop, as out-of-season fruit was a real treat that tourists brought back home! Yikes, I'm old!

Yes, Pete did actually step up in California, I hadn't thought about it.

I myself would trust Don as far as I could throw him. But he's irresistible, just the same.

Pete the Cheap-O....the oranges were just like the candy he gave Trudy (and ate himself!)...the easy and cheap way out...typical Pete! I was just surprised the oranges made it all the way back and there were still some in the sack!

Dry, I think Don had a Dick Whitman slip of the tongue there with the "you're well off" comment. As Don, he knows rich people but they all work for their money, or like Pete and Roger, have inherited it from obvious sources. I wonder too, if the jet setters were just Euro-trash hangers on, not actually wealthy themselves.

.....Mambo.....No doubt! Being a little slow on the uptake, I've turned over a new page based on the very good posts on this thread.

Don is damaged goods, and has a plateload of baggage.

....this is getting interesting.....

Yes, absolutely.....Eurotrash with too much money and time, and a complete lack of core values.

Their financial status probably comes and goes, like their humanity.

Good one, SCfan! Pete is a "Cheap-O". I think Pete's brother made a crack about Pete serving Jim Beam to his guests at home. Dollars to donuts says Pete brought a bottle home from the office's storage closet . ;o) Cheers.

I just realized that if the other two introduced themselves as "Dollars" and "Moneybags", then Don called himself "Tilden Katz" as a comment on how rich Katz is - in the same category as a "moneybags". As someone else said, it probbaly gave him a childish pleasure to say the name of Rachel's husband, and also to kind of make fun of how rich he is. Don takes a lot of quite pride in being a self-made man, and appears outwardly gracious and humble (compared with the selfish rich boy attitude of Pete). This is partly what appeals to him about Peggy, I think - they share a more similar background than most of the others. So for him, calling Katz rich is a putdown.

Dry - I agree about being shocked with Don asked if they were well off in California. So unlike him and yet so believable.

Also wanted to add that I think the person Don hates most is Duck. Agreed that he doesn't take Pete seriously enough to really hate him, and in fact finds him pathetic.

.....Oh Mambo.....I've said this before, but reading the people on here, I'm more convinced than ever that age really is just a number.

Cells get older - not personalities!

The "was there" stories of the forum are real gems, so please don't hold back.

As to the Eurotrash, I think they did somehow have the money to indulge in the hedonistic lifestyle (and clearly it's done nothing for their personal integrity and core values).

I'd love to see Don in California again, but not with them. Yeachgh!

Okay the truth is I want to see Don Draper in that beautiful, mid-century modern house - yeah! I think he liked that house better than he liked the Creepy-Sleeparounds. I know I did!

I think Don was curious about the opportunity to escape and quickly saw that the grass was far from greener, in this particular case.

Don goes through all these situations, and all these people, and in so many cases finds he is "better" than that - better than where he has led himself, for reasons he still doesn't understand, and it seems to be a slap in the face to him every time he discovers this.

At that point, there is usually a long "Dramatic Hamster" moment of looking in a mirror or staring at a glass, an introverted examination that doesn't look so good under the light.

(And of course, a whole bunch of smoking, because that's what smokers do.)

Each of these "epiphanies" that Draper experiences finds him living below the level of his own actual core values, and it affects his self-esteem.

We know that people engaged in self-destructive behaviors have a hard time stopping. This will be true for Donald Draper also.

Does anyone else think it's hilarious that BETTY was the one going to visit the therapist, Dr. Arnold Wayne?

So typically sexist and repressive, like telling Betty her bikini was "desperate."

Like not not (I think) said on another thread, I'm kind of in Betty's corner right now, and glad she's finally gotten up on her back legs.

I just thought of something. Betty Freidan's book "The Feminine Mystique", which pretty much jump-started the feminist movement, came out in February, 1963. Maybe that's when S3 will start.

Great posts, guys.

Drink, I agree that Pete probably stole a bottle of Jim Beam from SC -- and when it runs low, he just refills that same bottle with the reeeaaaalllly cheap stuff....that'd be just like him! What they don't know won't hurt 'em!

Isn't Jim Beam the reeeaaalllly cheap stuff? It's right up there with Mogan David wine. It should only be brought out at Christmas or New Years when everyone and anyone will drink it. Cheers.

I don't have time right now to go into my philosophical ramblings on this interesting post, so just want to make a quick comment about the bag of oranges Pete brought back. In the 60s, a bag of oranges was a treat. In the early 70s, my parents were older than most, and an orange in my Christmas stocking (along with other things) wasn't uncommon. It also wasn't uncommon to have a relative ship a box of oranges to someone for Christmas, or have a neighbor bring a bag over after a trip to FL or CA. I don't know if it was so much as an afterthought for Pete but just him doing what people do without knowing why (it's a chip and dip) and without spending a great deal (which he doesn't have). So, creep that Pete is, I think it was him trying to do something human, something that people do, and everybody likes oranges (like Popsicles). The fact that he brought anything back for anyone at the office makes me wonder if the writers are going to try to humanize Pete a bit more, or show him as more aware of his out of touch nature (a la DD but in a more vain way).

Wish I had more time now to elaborate on other aspects of this. Great conversation!

Drink....heeeee....I guess if Pete gets 'em drunk enough they won't know the difference!

Mogan David wine...is that the one made by "that little old wine maker....meeeeee"???

Oh, I think that was Italian Swiss Colony....about like Boone's Farm (which made OK "wine coolers"....remember those??)

I can just see Pete with his big old jug of bottom shelf wine and his funnel....

Italian Swiss Colony and Boone's Farm, what memories! Remember Granny Apple Wine, or something like that? We used to sneak it into the dorm and keep it in our little refrigerators and drink it with our Virginia Slims (there was a cigarette machine in my college dorm; can you imagine that today? I'm glad I'm not young now.). And what was that chain store in malls that sold maple candy, cheese, crackers? It wasn't Italian Swiss Colony, because it had some sort of Vermont theme.

Oh yeah, back to MM. I agree with MsFab's comments about Pete and the organges. I think he's trying to fit in. He's kind of tragic; he probably didn't fit in with his prep-school friends, and he doesn't fit in with his SC co-workers. Duck is a tragic character to me, too.

.....Mambo.....If they don't at least make reference to the book, I will be surprised.

MsFab.....Sure, they will make Pete more human, only to later shock us by having him pull a "Mr. Hyde" and do something dastardly, so that we are utterly confused.

Drink&Smoke.....We're sorry. We won't do it again!!

Funny, funny memories!! Boone's Farm actually has a fan club - check it out.....

http://www.boonesfarm.net/

Can you believe that?

Oh, God, the wine coolers made with Boone's Farm...we though we were so sophisticated....might as well have been drinking Ripple....!

Mambo, I think you're maybe thinking of Hickory Farms?

Beef Stick, Pepper Jack Cheese and those little tiny Strawberry Bon Bons...they're still around...I think they just have little "kiosks" in the malls now.

Yes, MsFabulous, we have an aunt who still sends us a beautiful box of oranges (she lives in Fla.) every Christmas. We look forward every holiday to our citrus goodies....

www.hickoryfarms.com

Yum...I should not have gone there....my word, the goodies!

what's wrong with the link, I wonder?...oh well....

http://hickoryfarms.com

Dear me...in their "Sweets" category, they even have a Red Velvet Cake, Z!

(Bet it's not as good as your homemade, from what I've read in the forum, anyhow!)

I know all about them because they ship free to APO (military) addresses (son is in the Air Force)

Usually send stuff I make myself...but sometimes in the summer when it's roasting (96 here today!) I cheat and send Hickory Farms stuff (he never complains, believe me!)

.....I want a piece of z's Red Velvet Cake. Before it goes on the floor.

Msfabulous, I was thinking the same thing when I read these posts about Pete and the oranges. I remember when citrus was hard to get and very expensive when it was available in the stores. I lived in the midwest and we ate fresh fruit that was seasonal - watermelon in the summer, apples in the fall, and DelMonte canned peaches and fruit cocktail the rest of the year.

Oranges and pistachio nuts at Christmas were exotic treats that our Dad's employer provided every year.

Boone's Farm - OMG, I remember drinking that stuff - my introduction to fine wine!

We always got an orange in our stockings at Christmas. I hated oranges and always gave mine to my older brother who loved them. In return, he would crack walnuts for me from the big wooden bowl of mixed nuts on the dining room table.

No Red Velvet Cake until December, Dry. It is too damn hot to turn on the oven. Wanna popcicle instead?

God, Z..now you made me remember our "Tree Bark" nut bowl...remember those....they were like a hollowed-out slice of a tree?

I still have it and use it every Christmas season...

I loved getting apples and oranges in the bottom of my Christmas stocking (still have it, too, felt with all kinds of glitter and sequins glued on sooooo long ago...) also loved those "ribbon" type Christmas hard candies....so good...

Are you talking about the Tree Bark bowl with a green felt bottom? The ones that have a place in the middle of the bowl to hold the nut crackers and picks? Never heard of those... ;o) Cheers.

.....It used to amaze me how, during family holiday open houses, all the men in the room would head straight for the nut bowl, and spend the rest of the afternoon cracking, picking, eating and making a mess.

Evidently, nuts and booze go together well.

My mother had several decorative nutcrackers, nutpicks and bowls, but the one that I still have is one made of brass, in the shapely shape of a naked lady's legs!

The men really loved that, and it always made the whole nut thing a running joke.

Yeah...at any given moment there are at least five or six of those slice-of-a-tree nut bowls on Ebay...I couldn't part with mine...it's worn and old, but "sentimental value: and all that....

I have really enjoyed reading these posts! Just want to make one comment on Don's obvious faux paus about "You guys are really well off" Maybe he was just so flabergasted to see first hand the idle rich in action as there probably weren't any where he came from. That it just slipped out of his mouth.

.....Don Draper seems so elegant and well-turned-out, it's a shock to me when he displays a crude emotion.

It reveals and belies his meager origins.

Yep, Dry...hackneyed, but true..."You can take the boy out of the country....."

Re the road side stands in Florida I mentioned earlier, take a look at this site: http://www.lostparks.com/frland.html
That's the kind of place I remember from my childhood. And look at the cars in the parking lot. We had a car exactly like the green and white one, I think it's a 56 Ford.

Nice picture Mambo. I love retro Florida so much better than over developed Florida. Ever been to Naples, Miami or Daytona lately? Yuck!

Mz. Z I hope an orange in your stocking wasn't the only thing you got for Christmas! That reminds me of the movie: The Madalene Sisters (I hope that's the name as I too have CRS). A true story about how "bad girls in Ireland were sent away to convents and tortured by cruel nuns. One scene all the girls get one orange for Christmas! Not even enough to make a screwdriver.

That's a neat pic, Mambo. I love all those old retro pics of how it used to be to travel.

Funny, Chelsea! They probably looked forward to that orange all year!

lol