Jim P., are you new? If so, welcome!

.....as to your post about knowing a "real Joan Holloway".....must have been a high point in the business day just to watch Naoma walk away...or walk toward you!

heeee

.....Can't add anything, sorry, but this is a cool post.

The one thing that bothers me is that this woman, who, if she is anything like "Joan," is something special..... yet she never made past the glass ceiling.

I realize Joan says "now" that she never wanted more (in her breakroom conversation with Peggy), and I don't know why it bugs me so, but I guess I really want Joan to rise above "Secretary Land....."

.....A social class profession elevated in regard only slightly above the rank of "bi-pedal humanoid."

There. I said it.

JP, nice post and beautiful tribute to your great friend.

I think I see your point Dry, but not everyone was/is trying to break the glass ceiling. To be a professional secretary is venerable career choice. I knew and know a lot of secretaries that were/are paid very well for their skills and decorum.

Back in the 60's just being accepted to a prestigious secretarial school like Katerine Gibbs was an impressive acomplishment. A Katherine Gibbs graduate was considered the "cream of the crop" and would go on to work for the top executives at the most prestigious firms. As a good female secretary, at that time, she always kept an extra pair of stockings (in case of a run) in her desk drawer, never wore her hair touching her shoulders and always had a hat and gloves. For Joan, it may not be enough to stay in the position she's in. But I am sure that, as a professional, she will find her own private ways to succeed. The scene of taking back the airline tickets was great. You never, never, never want to take on a private secretary. They'll get the better of you every time.

As I see it, since Mad Men is not your afternoon soap opera I doubt Joan will kill Jane or Roger or Mona or Peggy or anyone, she will not run away with Dale or find out that she is Bert Cooper's love child. Mad Men is so well written it doesn't need any gimmicks to hold your attention.

.....485..... Wonderful, knowledgeable post....

I'm open to any and all recollections and viewpoints.....I just can't help myself.....

And, "WAH," I'm SO BORED!!!

Where IS everybody?????

Jim P, a great post and a beautiful tribute to your friend.

I think I see your point Dry, but not everyone was or is trying to break the glass ceiling. A good private secretary is paid very well for her/his skills and decorum.

In the 60's it was considered an impressive accomplishment to be accepted into the top secretarial schools, for example Katherine Gibbs. A Katherine Gibbs graduate could write her own ticket to work for the top executives of prestigious firms. As a good female secretary of her time she would always have an extra pair of stocking (in case she had a run) in her desk drawer, never wore perfume or her hair touching her shoulders and a hat and gloves were compulsory accessories.

Joan is very good at what she does and because of it may not be given the chance to move into another position at Sterling Cooper. That said, she still holds a great amount of power and will use it when needed. The scene of her taking back the airline tickets was superb. You never, never, never want to take on a private secretary. They will win every time.

Since I don't look at Mad Men as an afternoon soap opera I am sure Joan will not kill Jane or Roger or Mona or Peggy or anyone, she will not run away with Dale or find out she's Bert Coopers love child. The characters of Mad Men is so well written they don't need any gimmicks to hold your attention.

oops, sorry for the double post. Thought I canceled the first one.

.....485.....I was paid an INSANE amount of money to be "Joan."

LOATHED every minute of it.

.....And, 485.....I would like to acknowledge your deeper scrutiny regarding the details of this show.

More, please!

....Also? I was a "pro," in case you wuz wunderin'.....

.....Whaddya mean, Joan won't kill someone?

Yawn.....zzzzzz........

WHERE'S THE BEEF????

Fantastic...

.....I'm sorry, Drink&Smoke.....Sometimes I am such a troll.....

I promise I'll behave.....

(Heeeee!)

.....I meant Jim P.....My D&S apology was another thread on which I trolled out!!

(Sorry.....shutting up now!)

No problem Dry Manhattan. Naoma LOVED her Salem 100's and her cocktails.

.....You are very kind {:)

From another occupation entirely (NOT advertising), I remember my father's secretary, Audrey Hogan. She was a redhead, tough, and a chain smoker; probably liked her martinis or manhattans too but I never saw her other than in the office. She held down the fort whether dad was in his office or out elsewhere in the building or at a meeting with the city manager. Unless he had someone in with him, we kids got waved in to see him whenever we stopped by.

She usually sat behind a tall pile of manilla folders with a wreath of smoke encircling her head and floating to the ceiling, tapping the ashes off the end with her polished red nails. Usually she wore a jacketed sheath dress, probably with pumps but I don't remember seeing her leave the desk. She was kind to us but had no problem handling an angry visitor, with a sharp retort or a quick call down the hall to the desk sergeant. You see, my dad was chief of police in our town, his office directly across the hall from the city court judge, so we got all types in the hallways, appearing in court, etc. The smoking eventually got to Audrey but she was one tough bird to the end. She was married but I never met Mr. Hogan.

.....I know I'm a giant nerd, but I love these stories, possibly the most of any of the posts.

Aaaaaahh yes..."holding down the fort"....that was my specialty in my secretaryin' days (1970's to 1980's)....the boss was never there...well, he did drop in long enough in the mornings to check with me to see who he definitely wanted to avoid that day -- and again in the aftn. to have a tall stack of messages handed over to him -- I generally handled the comings and goings of that particular investment firm on my own...which was fine with me (his being absent a lot)....actually it was great, "the Boss" (yeah, right) being almost a dead ringer for Pete Campbell, in both looks and personality.

A thing like that!....

Did they call you by your name, SCfan? I was always "dear", "honey", "sweetheart", or, after the British invasion, "luv". Can't count the times I would have some guy leaning over my desk asking for his messages in a low deep voice like we had something going between us. The married ones were the worst.....

Zerelda...smashing to see 'luv' in print. It was the big word of the 60's here; probably due to the Beatles and co. A posh David Hemmings uses it several times in 'Blow-Up' (1966) It has been superseeded nowadays by all sorts of odd words (which are very politically correct) except in some northern cities like Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow. Bye Luv!

"Blow UP" OMG one of my favorite movies at the time. Using the model Verushka was mind blowing (excuse the pun - not intentional) Also, so many amazing cameos!

Some called me by my name and some didn't...and yes, the married ones were the absolute worst for flirting and propositioning (that I was also married, or "Really Married" as they liked to put it, mattered not) never took any up on their offers, but that never deterred them.

I seem to recall the big favorite to be called was "Sweetie"...with "Honey" coming in a close second.

There was one single man who called me Mrs. _________ (my last name) which was very charming and I always told him his mama raised him right...hope he found a fine young lady to marry, as he was a rare gentleman -- in a sea of jerks.

One memory about my boss (the "Pete" clone!) he once was present (in his office and out of sight but within earshot) when one of those married clients was flirting with me and propositioning me to beat the band, and he came out and let the guy have it up one side and down the other telling him to have some respect for a lady and the institution of marriage...it was very surprising to me, coming from him...but I always respected him for that.

Just like Pete, he was a hard one to figure...

BTW, the boss was married, too, and he never once got out of line in any way with me...don't know what he did when he was away from the office, however...he had a lot of "business meetings" outside the office that appeared to me to be "iffy" -- but I never had any proof nor heard any gossip in that direction.

His wife was always calling to check up on him, also, which was a red light, of course...

Oh the drama that was secretary life...don't miss it at all!

.....Oh good, it's not just me. I swear, I don't think there is an executive who doesn't cheat, doesn't matter which company, firm or corporation.

I was trying to tell Clayton about it when the series first began, but you guys weren't here yet, and I think he thought I was nuts.

The fact is, people talk about how scandalous all the crazy things that occur on the show are, but really nothing's changed. All those things still go on, and more..... they're just a little more subtle about it.

You wouldn't believe the stories.....or maybe you would!

What if you guys put your stories down here, and see if they end up in the show.....that would be entertaining.

Well, I've got some real zingers...I wouldn't believe them myself if they hadn't happened to me!

Lord...

I'll tell mine if you all tell yours....

...red flag (not light)... I meant to say up there....but, you all already knew that....sigh

.....Really?

I will, if you (and everyone else) will.....

It's seriously horror-inducing!