Not a surprise that there isn't a comment on this post yet. I should have probably just stuck to talking about salacious stuff, like Nazis, sexual imagery, love children, spies, alcohol and alcoholism, bigotry, etc., rather than the similarities between Peer Gynt and Dick Whitman.

......ryeriver......Trust me, you will be read, and commented on..... this is a great post, and I thank you for it.

I remember this story with complete fascination from my very early childhood, and I think you are spot on about the analogy.

Incidentally, I think the traffic on the forum just doubled again.....I know I'm lost as hell....anyone else?

But not complaining. I mean, what CAN you do with this many people. It just means better time management is in order.

Thanks again for the post, and have some faith - this is the best forum on the internet!

ryeriver, I have read your entire post and absolutely see the similarities between The Mountain King and Peer Gynt - the Wikipedia entry was a good addition to your post as I have heard of Peer Gynt but am not familiar enough with it to discuss at any length. Your post was very informative and your analogy seems right on.

ryeriver: This is the best post I've read so far. Full of brilliant insight even before the episode airs. Well done. I think it's particularly apt since this next episode will show Don as Dick going to visit someone from deep in his past. Thanks for the advance intelligence on the title and the links to more info on Peer Gynt.

Do you know of better summary of Peer Gynt than Wiki? I haven't read it and found the Wiki summary pretty convoluted. Or is Peer Gynt just a convoluted story.

Oddly, someone on a political blog made the comparison which set me off to research. I check in here from time-to-time and was surprised to see your thoughtful post, ryeriver. I'm not really an Ibsen fan but apparently Matt Weiner is.

You need a little patience, ryeriver-not as many people are here during the day or mid-week between shows.

Was Don really that shaken up by those missiles? They really seem to have set him off on some kind of journey. Looking forward to The Mountain King to see what happens next.

this is a great thread. I was also noticing that The Mountain King story almost resembles Don's story in MadMen. Cant wait to see what happens this sunday. GOD ITS ALREADY GOING TO BE THURSDAY...DAMN this week went by fast!

......midcenturymod.....I took Draper's reaction to the missile presentation as him being thrown back into his own nihlistic bent.

Draper has said repeatedly "There is nothing," "There is no tomorrow," "I feel nothing," "It ends badly."

I just think the presenter's words, "Total annihilation," repeated over and over, caused Don Draper to spin off the straight and narrow because his life is a mess so, hey, what does it matter?

The next step for him was going AWOL with a cute, young hedonist, who happened upon him with eerily perfect timing.

Hi ryeriver--
(btw love your chosen name. it reminds me of a mix between Dale Jr's Whiskey River in Charlotte NC and Don's fav liquor. Very cool name)

DM said be patient & wait for Maddicts to return to the board from their "real" lives to read, digest and comment on thought-provoking posts as this one is, for me, anyway.

Keeping it light, aka peeling away just the first layer of onion, "Mountain King" may be as simple as the kids game King of the Hill/King of the Mountain, and may focus on what looks to be a battle for controling the future fortunes at SC.

Peeling away too many layers leads to maddness--lol

I don't peeling an onion; many layers to uncover and when the last is removed -- what's left?

@ryeriver: Thank you so much for your interesting and insightful post. I've always thought this "chat room" is very educational as I haven't read all the books, poems, etc. that have been mentioned. Now you have compounded my thoughts that I am chatting with some very special people. I believe that you haven't received much feedback due to people working or having other responsibilities, but would much rather tune in here. Please continue posting.

Thank you, ryeriver. It is posts like yours that keep me coming back to this site. Very interesting and informative - makes me look forward to the next episode even more than I did before. My respect for Mr. Weiner and his writers just keeps growing, along with my curiosity as to where they are leading us.

By the way, I would have posted earlier, but I was busy with a 2 year old most of the afternoon.

I just wanted to add, Jet Set was freaking heavy with Don confronting the duality (catostrophe) of his personality in that Alice-through-the-looking-glass episode. In my interpretation, his time with the "nomads" led to his very private coming out party as he contemplated the crack/seam in the glass. The mirror or opposite image was Kurt Smith calmly & casually dropping his very public coming-out-bomb in the SC break-room. Now don't go ballistic, I'm NOT no way no how saying Don's gay--god forbid we know better LOL, I'm just saying coming out is about accepting who you are at the core of your being--after all the layers are stripped away, and being able to proudly carry it as Kurt Smith did.

I'd love to believe that Dick Whitman's/Don Draper's alter ego is all about being a CIA agent/spy or a grifter's. pornographer's or blackmailer's target. That would make it easy and painless to digest. I think there's lots of pain in the Dick-to Don-to Dick transformation.

I hope Mountain King lightens up, but if not I'm gonna pull my belt tight one more time for a rockey ride

Ryeriver- Fantastic post! Thanks! This is the sort of stuff that I am interested in on the MM talksites. To me this show is cinematic art and to see a post like this that introduces/discusses it to other "literature" I find very enjoyable. It's not the typical junk on TV today. Love the time they are taking to evolve the characters and develop the stories. They did a great job at casting each role as the actors/actresses have the talent to portray and project the nuance of each "person." Again, thanks for your post.

For your very first post, you've hit it out of the park, ryeriver!
Well thought out and presented. The fact that it was your very first post made me hesitate to respond. There have been a lot of bomb-throwers here recently who post controversial things for the sake of sensationalism. Far too many trivial topics have begun to make this place run-of-the-mill.

With your submission, you'll see the interest and reaction you hoped for. Quite a few Maddicts are beyond being fascinated by the ordinary, and are appreciating all the nuances of the tale. Thanx for putting forward another connection....

Look forward to seeing more of you...

rye river,
Your comment is true to the identity of this forum.
I believe that this forum is more like a book club. You have made a very interesting correlation between Peer and Don. Matt has ways of identifying people from books to flavor his Mad Men. It seems to give them a deeper personality.
We just need to be smart enough to get it.
You just gave me a boost.

Peer Gynt is quite the tale. I have to confess I'm familiar with Greig's music rather than the actual story.

If the next episode follows Peer Gynt and Don is Peer, he's in for some rough times.

The link to Wikipedia's entry is here Peer Gynt

If Don were Peer, would Betty be his Solveig?

I found this interesting:

He (Peer), comes across a woman clad in green who turns out to be the daughter of the troll mountain king.

Wasn't Joy wearing a green dress at the hotel?

ryeriver - Thanks for bringing the article and insights to the forum. Oftentimes a literary or historical reference is lost on some or many of the viewers, and it's great when someone can bring their knowledge to the forum to share. That's what's a burden and a blessing about MM; it's so cerebral and sophisticated that something (symbols, references) always gets lost on me on the first viewing and I need my fellow posters to give me their notes and insights!

Don's journey definitely sounds similar to Peer's - 'overcoming one's self' has been a major theme this season, especially for Don. I'm hoping more light gets shed about Don's past in the next episode and that he makes some steps forward in overcoming his demons, though you never know with him...more dark secrets and self-destructive behavior is pretty much a given.

I am so, so happy to find a really intelligent forum like this one--- thanks ryeriver! Former WRG'er, I always enjoy your comments.

I'd rather hang out here than the Open Thread--- it's way too long and hard to read, and I can't believe some of the silliness being posted there.

Thanks again for a smarter place to read and post. :-)

Ryeriver, excellent post. I think your observations apply not just to Don, but to the other characters in the show who are overcoming themselves - Peggy coming out of her shell, Betty being in the adult in her relationship with Glenn, Harry Crane asking for a promotion and a raise, Trudy Campbell demanding Pete consider adoption, etc.

But, as you stated, Peer/Don represents Everyman.

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

Another curious clue. Forgot this part of Peer Gynt:

Although Peer kidnaps Ingrid on her wedding day, it is clear that love is not the reason. In fact, Peer is too selfish to really be motivated by love of anything. In his selfishness, Peer wants Ingrid for the dowry she would bring, a dowry that would enable him to escape having to work. However, there is love in this play, and that is the love that motivates Solveig. She sacrifices her family, friends, and home to live with Peer, isolated and ostracized in the forest. And although she can only share his life briefly, Solveig waits patiently for him to return. Peer never tells her when he might return, and in fact, he is gone for many years. But still, Solveig waits, alone in the hut, and when Peer finally returns an old man, she quickly greets him with love and thanks him for having made her life fuller and happier. Solveig offers an example of enduring, committed love for someone who spends much of his life trying to escape any commitment.

Are we about to meet our "Solveig"? Someone Peer...err...Don...err...Dick returns to, and whom accepts Dick despite him being away for a long time?

Or, is Betty our Solveig, waiting for Don to return?

*yawn* more salaciousness, please.

"Although Peer kidnaps Ingrid on her wedding day, it is clear that love is not the reason. In fact, Peer is too selfish to really be motivated by love of anything. In his selfishness, Peer wants Ingrid for the dowry she would bring, a dowry that would enable him to escape having to work."

From this passage, I would think that Betty was Ingrid. Don chose her not for love, but for what she represented: the perfect wife and mother. A model who could help him set up his model life.

He's either going back to his love (Solveig), if you will or perhaps his Solveig was Rachel? That's probably too far fetched, but who knows?

I've gone to lunch and come back and nobody responded to my witty and sarcastic remark!

Okay, I will stop teasing now long enough to agree that Betty sounds like Ingrid and--ryeriver, your assertion that we may be about to meet our "Solveig" is very intriguing. I like that angle--thanks for the food for thought.

No problem! To be reductive, it certainly will be interesting where the story goes in the next couple of episodes. We shall see if the Peer Gynt allusions hold true and play out as I imagine.

Who did he call...who did he call. Very intriguing.

LOL froufrou

Froufrou - very funny

Matt Weiner's clue may have been less esoteric, and more salacious, referencing the film "The Mountain King":

'This little film, which went largely unnoticed in 2001 at most film festivals, is an incredible tour de force. An uptight, middle-class tourist (reading Theodore Dreiser's "An American Tragedy") on a lonely beach is approached by a sleazy, obnoxious hustler. The hustler seduces -- there is no other word for it -- him into the water and then into a luxurious beach house. There, the two lives collide in a tidal wave of sex, excitement, drugs and release. Like the accompanying music (Edvard Grieg's "In the Hall of the Mountain King," from the "Peer Gynt" suite), the film builds to an emotional crescendo that will have you on the edge of your seat. It's almost impossible to describe the emotions. It's just...WOW. The encounter with the dangerous, sleazy, manipulative hustler opens up the frigid tourist, releasing emotion like a volcano. Even when he realizes that things haven't ended up quite as safe as he'd like (abandonment, theft and breaking-and-entering being only some of the things we realize have occurred), the film's final minute is a jaw-dropping visual statement about risking everything in order to gain life. Director Duncan Tucker is someone to watch for in the future! (And so are his two actors -- just incredible!)'

*smile* thanks, producerbonnie and penultimate.

penultimate, I must see that film!

Fwiw, here's a link to Peer Gynt in flip book form.

You can read it and turn the pages. It has illustrations as well. An interesting tale. A little over 200 pages.

Peer's background is actually closer to to Pete's. Both men had fathers that wasted their wealth.

Peer fathers a child and then runs from the responsibility of raising it when confronted by the mother.

Peer also has grandiose thoughts and speaks of wondrous feats when in fact he's done no such thing.

Perhaps The Mountain King is referring to Pete Campbell. At any rate, the next episode should be interesting.

season 3 will don and betty get back together?

Well, we DID meet our Solveig. She was Anna Draper, the woman Dick/Peer returned to after a long absence, and she DID still love him...but not in the way we imagined. She clearly loves him like a mother. Extremely interesting. What a well-written tale.

ryeriver, you hit the nail on the head! Very cool.

In retrospect would you say that the 11th episode "The Jet Set" was Peer's fever dream and that the troll was Willy Monteforte? His daughter Joy isn't literally pregnant with Don/Peer's child but when Christian shows up late with two kids in tow, they would appear to be hers. Up until that point Don seemed to be at least considering running away with the eurotrash. His guilt over the children I think is a shock to his system and sets him on a course to examine his dual life with someone who knows his secrets.

There aren't always direct parallels and sometimes characters are severed or composited to for the most part this has been a brilliant fit.

Matt Weiner has succeeded in making the smartest show on television, I think. This whole series calls to mind a quote by French director Jean-Pierre Melville.

"I would like my films to be, let's say like a mille-feuilles cake: two very different, pleasing substances, pastry and cream. Only the real gourmets will taste the pastry, those with less fine taste only the cream."

I prefer this over the onion analogy.

I saw Peer Gynt at the Guthrie Theatre in 1983. I noticed that they had a production in 2008 as well. I was finishing college at the time and I scraped together the dollars to attend. It is a four hour production. The most vivid line in my memory was Peer Gynt's line "Everything I say is true!". In a way this is like a magician saying his tricks are authentic or real. When I saw the episode name and I was reminded of Peer Gynt I thought that this was the perfect mixed "everything I say is true" statement for an adman or madman. They believe what they say at the time that they are saying it because their conviction however misplaced helps sell ads, or their life choices. I also thought about Ibsen's other plays like "A Doll's House" which could certainly apply to Betty and other women of the sixties. I saw "A Doll's House" when I was 12 and at the time I could not believe that it had been written in the 19th century since it was such an accurate statement for 1972.

Top China Wholesaler-Buy Wholesale Promotional Gifts Promotional Items from China.