Plus, I was really shocked and taken by surprise when Peggy confessed about the baby. I NEVER thought she would tell Pete. I'm not sure if Peggy actually gave the baby up for adoption or by saying she "gave it away" that her sister still isn't the one who has become the baby's caretaker.

I have never felt so sorry for someone as I did Pete in tonight's episode. Tragic.

I'm not sure I feel so sory for Pete. He marries a girl for her fathers connections, beds a woman (& a virgin!) right before his wedding, berates Peggy for having confidence at a bar, turns Don in to Mr. Cooper, steals Don's mail/photos, orders his wife around like a servant, I could go on. Yes, it is crushing to hear you had a child you never knew you had but he was so obtuse he needs a slap of reality.

Funny how Don was the ONLY man in the office to notice that Peggy cut her hair. He may use women but he also SEES them.

jamm. i also see a potential for a future for pete and peggy. for me. the imagery of him sitting alone in the office with his rifle was (as usual in this series) to be taken two ways...it's the missle crisis and he's armed to defend himself against looters. or, he's contemplating suicide now that his wife has effectively left him, the woman he loves has seemingly rejected him, and he now knows he has a child out there somewhere, in the hands of strangers - and he remembers his comment about discards and strangers.

he's going to go through some big changes when we see him next season.

actually, we could see him turn on peggy...that would make for better drama.

The conversation between Peggy and Pete was poignant and moving. They are both sad people in their own way. I am a bit confused however by her stating that she 'could have had him' or something like that........Supposedly she did not even know she was pregnant until she got to the hospital to give birth, nine months after their tryst. But even if she knew nine days after, it was too late. Pete was getting married the very next day. What would she have done at that point?
As for Pete, he has changed a lot. With new confidence in his professional abilities, he has grown into a man with a bit more integrity than the jerk he was before. He has actually gone from a pathetic character to a sympathetic one.
As to Peggy, what does anyone think she means when she talks about a piece of her being missing? I really do not think she is talking about the baby, but rather some part of her own persona.

I was thinking that Peggy was musing for a moment,..lost in her thoughts about disgarding the child she had carried. That she was speaking of a piece of her that was missing,..that the part of her that was the child.I got that right away.She also mentioned wistfully that there was the idea that perhaps one could retrieve that piece in the future sometime,but that it wasnt going to happen in reality. I was pulled two ways with her for a moment.Part of me thought that Peggy was silently aching for her loss,knowing that she had no choice,that she would lose her budding career. And yet the other part of me thought that she seemed blank and empty,but for a tear or two edging along the rim of her eyes.Her voice didnt register pain when she told Pete about the baby. No real feeling there,I thought,just as if it were a normal part of conversation. As if it were nothing much that had happened,..rather like Pete had given her an infection,and she'd had to get rid of it,nothing more.Very shallow emotionally.Peggy hasnt much going on in the emotion area,I have always thought.She seems quite monotoned.Not bad acting,no,..but that she was written without much passion. She doesnt have very deep feelings on anything. I like Peggy,and I keep hoping that something will happen that will cause her to jump to life.

Too bad father Gil won't leave her alone for her confession. I'm getting pretty irritated at him pushing her. I was very proud her her response, but maybe she outta become a lutheran instead.

Madmanfan-I think she meant she could have kept the baby and told Pete he was the father. He and Trudy would split and then he would marry her for the baby's sake. It also occurred to me that she did know she was pregnant and could have told him sooner with the same result.

I'm lost about that missing piece idea. I need to listen to that again. Hope I catch the repeat.

Hi bocaratonfan!
I posted this on the open thread, but, here goes again...
I think Pete was holding his precious shot gun because it represents something that truely belongs to him.
Remember, he got it in exchange for Trudy's chip and dip set.

I was wondering about Peggy's baby also.
Of course, I was the one who said she probably imagined the whole pregnancy! Either I was wrong, or Peggy is mentally sicker than I thought!
If she did have a baby, and the baby wasn't adopted, would the child be at an orphanage?
I know there were many orphanages still in existence at that time.
Peggy telling Pete about the baby was her confession. I believe she is beginning to make peace with God. Remember the last scene, she was blessing herself before going to sleep?
Enough from me..

That baby would be about 47 now and he would have Pete's ruthlessness and Peggy's drive to succeed. Wait a minute. Did their child grow up to be...Donald Trump?!

Such a poignent scene. Peggy seemed on the verge of tears, but fought hard to hold back. Pete was raw and vulnerable. His marriage is over; he knows and I think Trudy now knows it.

Pete respects Peggy (loves her) and it obvious that Peggy has affection for Pete.

These 2 will have a tortuous future; not quite together but never far apart.

It is the end of the world and it is time to confess your sins in exchage for a chance at redemption.

The marriage is basically over between Trudy and Pete. She will want to stay with Pete because she is "Daddy and Mommy's good little girl" and women stayed in their marriages in those days. But it will be an empty journey because they can't have kids and they don't have each other. It was a very poignant scene between Peggy and Pete but she basically told him thay she doesn't want him either, even if there was a child involved. She decided that she wanted other things like being a career woman rather than a wife and mother. A very courageous choice in those days and especially inview of her previous mental breakdown. She has actually got to the point where she has outgrown her feelings for Pete.

>Her voice didnt register pain when she told Pete about the baby. No real feeling there,I thought,just as if it were a normal part of conversation. As if it were nothing much that had happened,..rather like Pete had given her an infection,and she'd had to get rid of it,nothing more.Very shallow emotionally.

You seem to forget that it's October 1962. Peggy had the baby in November 1960. She's lived with this secret for two years. Let me say that again: she's had TWO YEARS to come to grips with what happened. Two years to think and imagine all the ways she might tell Pete, and other "might-have-been" scenarios like what would have happened if she'd told him right after the baby was born and "shaming him" into being with her.

The affair, the baby, giving it up, living with the fear that she's committed a terrible sin and was going to go to hell for it--as we might say in the modern world: "been there, done it, gotten over it."

As she said--and this relates to cutting off the childish pony tail and changing out of little girl dresses--she's finally accepted that she is a woman. A part of her is gone, given away like the baby, like her hopes and dreams for Pete, like her childhood faith. She now has an office and a position, a new hair cut, a new wardrobe, a new future, and new faith.

There is no need for her to weep childish tears or be other than mature and steady, and truthful. This is not shallowness. This is adulthood. This is maturity.

Great discussion! There's a very similar one (I just posted) on the thread called "the character Pete". I wish I could combine these two threads.

How the tables have turned. Pete always talked down to Peggy, acting older, smarter, more grown-up. But in this scene, he looked and sounded like a child, near tears, completely bewildered, as she calmly and steadily said what she had to say. Then she gave him that little pat as she left. She seems 10 years older than she did in Season One.
I don't see these two getting back together. There's too much scorched earth there now, too much history. Peggy has moved beyond Pete, when he wasn't looking. He thought he could discard her and pick her up again whenever he wanted, but she has quietly moved on and no longer has any use for him. Very, very poignant scene.

hi 60s child! you wrote that you
" believe she is beginning to make peace with God. Remember the last scene, she was blessing herself before going to sleep?"

yes, i agree. i think she did make her peace. without the priest. just peggy and God.

and that's a good point about the gun. it was "something for himself"...he perceives that everything else is for someone else.

Whiskey River...
My idea is that Peggy didn't mourn the loss of her child. She was grieving her loss of innocence. She came to terms with accepting that one impulsive act she willingly committed altered the trajectory of her life. She could no longer pretend to be the naive schoolgirl, bouncing cheerily into the world of her new job on her first day. And, she also realized that time is wasted pining for what should have been.

I also feel she appeared emotionless because long before having this conversation with Pete she had already dealt with the deep emotions surrounding what had happened to her. Her emotions were not involved in the conversation.

After Pete slept with her he was pretty awful to her. His actions were erratic and confusing. She laid in that hospital bed for weeks and tried to come to terms with her (now) womanly body (no longer girlish or virginal), her romantic fantasies about love and attraction, and her life with and without her child.

I don't believe Peggy planned that moment to tell Pete about the baby, but when the opportunity presented itself, she tried to help him understand she was not perfect, nor perfect for him, any longer. She tried to gently give him all the facts...show him how well she knows herself...and suggests he learn to face his truths, too. It was with tenderness that she brushed his shoulder as she left..

I thought it was great, but then we are allowed to disagree...

I agree greytone, Peggy had very little emotion in regard to her baby. There was no question what she'd do. She was as practical in that matter as she was handling Don and Bobbie following the accident. Of course, she felt guilt and shame over it. You couldn't avoid those two soul sucking emotions being Catholic!

It was an exceptional scene between she and Pete. She was loving but very matter of fact which Peggy does best. I see her as once being an "unintentional feminist" who has become quite intent on what she is capable of and wants in her life.

And it was brilliant how the show ended on the precipice of certain or uncertain disaster. Uninhibited Truth was flowing more freely than alcohol. I f not now, when? Nothing to lose at that point. It will be interesting to see how the truths are dealt with once the catastrophe doesn't happen. Season 3, we'll see...or we won't. Who knows what MW and crew will give us?

hey jamm54....good to read you again! hehehehhe. I finally saw Ship of Fools and loved it. I saw elements of MM all over it and vice versa. I was freaking out on the fact that Simone Signoret's La Condesa was supposedly only 42 years old! She looked 60! Vivien Leigh, Oskar Werner, Lee Marvin (what a fabulous freak!) and all were superb. Great rec for MM peeps.

Glamara: were you as shocked by the high heel scene as I was the first time I saw it? Man, Mrs. Treadwell was quite a pistol with that shoe!

Interesting comments everyone - thanks! What kind of confused me about this scene was Peggy's words about losing a part of herself. But some of your explanations (innocence, virginal girlishness) and the life she chose over Pete or his child (career, being a businesswoman) clarifies that for me.

Always, from the very first season, what confounded me about Peggy's behavior was her naivete versus ambition. Was it ambition or romantic naivete that prompted her on her first day at Sterling Cooper to put her hand on Don's hand? Was it naivete or ambition to sleep with Pete who showed up at her apartment the first evening of her first day at Sterling Cooper? When Peggy says "I wanted a different life or more, I have to assume she's talking about her ambition to get ahead and improve the circumstances of her life, not her romantic personal life.

@Glamara: Wasn't the love affair between the doctor and La Condesa wonderful? Love Oskar Werner!

jamm54...oh my gawd the high heel scene WAS a shocker. Horrifying, really. and wholly believable. that Mrs. Treadwell was sitting on so much rage. The relationship between La Condesa and the doctor was extremely well written and portrayed beautifully. It's hard not to fall in love with Oskar Werner!

I just thought of the "The Ice Storm" Did you see that?

jamm54...
Peggy's first day at SC she was a sponge, absorbing all of Joan's hints and suggestions, ranging from what she should do with her career at Sterling Cooper, but which doctor she should go to for birth control. Peggy was so enthusiastic and willing to learn, she went to get the birth control on her first lunch hour! Anyway, one of the things Joan told her was what the men want in a secretary. Naive as Peggy was, she was going to try to be the type of secretary Joan said, and made that one tenative overture to Don.

Don quickly showed her he was not interested in her in that way, and recognized the tenative manner and hesitancy in her actions. From that moment on, I believe Peggy began to filter what Joan said. She recognized her goals and Joan's goals were different, and she began to better discern her journey.

I just hate that her first mistakes were big ones and really cost her in life. Do you feel she should have told him? Pete did ask her, "Why did you tell me this?" The men I have spoken with tell me they would be very angry to hear such a story, and it's unrealistic that they would let the woman just walk away. I think Pete remembers how much of an asshole he has been; and is playing what happened over and over in his mind. Just when he was beginning to tell himself the truth, he has to push something down and forget about it to go forward.

Thanks greytone for going a step farther to help me see Peggy's first day in a different light. I tend to think that people operate from complete self-awareness and knowledge, and alot of times they're going along blindly.

As for Peggy telling Pete, I see posters having very different opinions on that ranging from revenge to Peggy freeing herself. I never thought her confession to Pete was about seeking revenge or inflicting hurt on Pete for what happened to her. In a way, Peggy finally accepted responsibility for her choice (sex with Pete, giving up their son for adoption) and seemed to be acknowledging that she wasn't capable of accepting that route in life - being an unwed mother trying to go it alone or having it limit her life.

What were Peggy's alternatives, really? She didn't know Pete from a stranger and yet she committed this rash act. He was getting married that weekend (and she didn't know then or throughout her pregnancy), so by the time she had the baby, Pete had been in his marriage for 9 months. Considering how Pete treated her for several months afterward, alternating between tenderness and cruelty, AND being a newlywed, did she really think she could've shamed him into annulling his marriage and marrying her? I don't think that was a realistic statement from Peggy actually. But it was never clear for her how Pete really felt about her or if he had any real deep feelings for her. The undercurrent of alot of his treatment of Peggy seemed to be a sort of condescenion/snobbery that she was beneath him socially, and he certainly never gave her the time of day as she ballooned in her pregnancy nor was he encouraging of her copywriting work or her brains as she was learning from Don. Even Ken Cosgrove was more of a cheerleader of Peggy's talents and achievements than Pete.

I honestly don't think Peggy wanted to break up Pete's marriage. It had to be his choice, and he never made it. And she certainly didn't want him because she was pregnant (and personally I don't think Pete would've accepted her or the baby anyway at that time in 1960). I truly believe her confession was spontaneous, but also to discourage Pete from having any illusions about her or putting her on a pedestal or falling in love with her at this point because now she was "acceptable" to him, as a career woman who had risen through the ranks. Yes, Pete has a right to be angry that he was never told, but think of who Pete was in 1960 and whether he would've wanted her or his baby then over Trudy and her family name/status. I don't think he would have wanted Peggy. This new information makes it doubly painful because his own wife is barren, and he realizes he married for status, and not for love.

greytone: Peggy's got my luck. The first time I had sex, I got pregnant.......

Glamara: Yes, I saw the "Ice Storm". What a strange, strange movie. I still don't know how I feel about it....some of it I found really abhorrent. I loved Tobey Maguire in it. Sigourney Weaver's character was so cold and empty.

Glamara: I know after Lee Marvin gets off the ship in Bremerhaven, his face looks like it took a load of buckshot with all the holes!

Personally, I have no sympathy for Pete. He is a first-rate asshole!!!

@boca: sorry to respond so late to your post. Yes, I think the door is left open on Pete and Peggy's future. If MW had completely wanted to slam it shut, the tone of Peggy's confession to Pete could've been full of hate, rage and blame at the moment he's confessing love. The fact that it wasn't written to emotional extremes either way leaves the possibility of their coming together - MAYBE - in the future.

The whole situation is pretty interesting. Pete discards Peggy; Peggy discards Pete's baby; Pete in essence discards Trudy's love; now Peggy discards Pete's love (for the time being).

@greytone: Peggy probably should've told him at the time it happened, but I don't think it would have changed the outcome at that time. Pete would have rejected her and the baby in 1960, being a newlywed and married to who he considered "appropriate" for his social class, standing. It might have broke up his marriage, but I don't think it would've compelled Pete to marry Peggy.

I think what Peggy did was exceptionally brave, and necessary FOR HER. By doing so, she was finally able to accept responsibility for all that she had done (and did afterward - giving the baby up for adoption) and acknowledge to herself that being a mother at that time was beyond the scope of her capabilities and that she did not want to suffer a lifetime of consequences (being unwed, raising a child alone, limiting her career future). I'm not sure if Peggy is aware of Pete and Trudy's fertility problems (I think she is), and probably why she said she was sorry to Pete for making that decision. But in 1960, Pete would have never dumped Trudy (though Trudy might have dumped him) and married Peggy or accepted the baby, IMO.

I love this show! As for how it ended, well, I think Peggy was informing Pete that she wasn't interested in him. That if she wanted him she could of had him, I believe she said "guilted him" but that's not what Peggy wants. She wants a career and a man who loves her just the way she is and with out judging her. (She has the Catholic church to do that).She is a trail blazer, not many out there then but the start of the women's movement.

I'm glad to see Don wake up and come back and I think Betty had her fling just to experience and see why Don fooled around. Betty will never have the baby, break through bleeding and still horseback riding, I see a miscarriage next season.

As for Joan, I feel for her. A great catch on the surface but a mean controling man. I hope she wakes up but she is the prototype for a 50-60's woman who will just live with it. Hopefully, he'll get hit by a truck right after they get married. She should at least get the insurance!

I like that truck idea, Socrates!