CC: This scene was disturbing. I saw disassociation on Joan's face when she realized she couldn't stop him. I would not be surprised if she had been raped when she was younger. Leaving the roses on the desk couldn't have been more poignant.

Once she gets her bearings, this pr*ck will be given his marching orders.

We've mentioned the Hitchcockian elements in a lot of MadMen. This scene reminded me of Frenzy with the serial killer rapist. It was very much like he'd murdered Joan's spirit.

He is a total a''**hole! No chemistry between them at all. The sonner she dumps him, the better! That marriage would be a train wreck. Seeing Peggy succeed has given her ideas that she doesn't need to get married. She has brains and looks, she so far has been using mostly her looks, but she could go far. I'm rooting for her to dump Dastardly Dr. as soon as possible!

It was awful to watch...they won't make us watch this will they, I was thinking as his hand covered her face and showed more clearly than the rape that she was not a person to him. Or perhaps that she is a person and he hates her.

I thought we saw the dichotomy of Joan's life more clearly last night than we had before. Office Joan is in charge and commands the execs, telling them to get busy, as if they are little children and they respond. Outside the office Joan is soft and her words don't hold the authority they should. The doctor marking his territory in Don's office made it even more dastardly as he tried to show her that Office Joan doesn't exist.

We are watching how abusive relationships grow and flourish. I am not sure she will dump him. She will likely keep the facade going until she realizes, and I hope she does and we get to watch, that Office Joan is truer to her self than being a doctor's wife.

Poor Joan. The bastard cuts her off when she's trying hard to make him happy in bed and then rapes her when she's trying hard to keep up appearances.

It really hurt to see his resignation on Don's floor. She's such a strong woman, just so very misguided in what her total assets are. How many times has she told Peggy that she doesn't want Peggy's job?

And yet she watches as her student continues to climb higher and higher up the latter.

The scene that did it for me was when she realized Peggy was making small talk about her wedding because she was really (and justifiably) much more excited about her new office. It made all of Joan's ambitions to marry a handsome doctor very shallow and surface, even to herself now that she sees what he is.

Please get away Joan!

This scene was very upseting!
I found it interesting that the scene of Joan and her finance in bed earlier showed his controlling behavior. He was not into "Joanie" being in contol of sex.
I don't think women of that time knew that the crime of rape is more about control, and not sex.
Although we see Joan as being in charge, and strong, she is a woman of the early 60's who accepted her fiance's disgusting rape as "rough sex".
Going back to the bed scene between Joan and the MD asshole, I got the feeling from Joan's conversation that she has told this guy that she ISN'T very sexually experienced? Did anyone else catch that?
Then, when she brings him to the office, he makes comments to her that led me to believe he is sure he she has had sex with most of the office men.
Then the rape happens in Don's office!
Total power issue!!
It sounds even more disgusting, but, it was as though he was "marking his territory" in Joan's place of power.
He is sick, twisted and dangerous, I hope she gets away from him!!!

I agree with you, Sizzie. I don't think Joan will dump this guy right away. I don't think she will even see that as an option. She has put together this entire life for herself: office manager (more or less, where she wants to be professionally, or so we've been led to believe thus far) and bride-to-be. She's so pleased with herself for landing the successful and handsome groom, and is only now beginning to see fault lines. To end this relationship, or not marry him, would completely disrupt the future she has so long wanted and has so carefully constructed.
Peggy, as a brilliant counterpoint, has eclipsed her. She is one step ahead of Joan, even if she (Peggy) wouldn't see it that way herself. They seem to represent both sides of the cusp: Joan still just on the 50s-early 60s side of things, and Peggy already navigating the world that is still to come. I think Joan will come around, but I think her story will be richer for the journey she still needs to take. (The writers could surprise me and have Joan turn on a dime and make a move much faster than I expect--but, while it will sometimes be painful to watch, I hope they don't change her too fast.)
This scene was disturbing on so many levels, but mostly because I love Joan's character. And I don't mean to be unnecessarily pessimistic toward either gender here, but I'm not sure this kind of scene was so uncommon at the time. In 1962, we are at least five or six years away from even the notion of a revolution that will publicly change the power structure between men and women.
Also, I took this rape scene to be a visceral representation of the way women were treated in general then. To step back from the disturbing physicality for a moment, is Joan's groom really any more brutal than some of the other men who surround her in this office? (Despite their obvious flaws, we are being led to like or at least understand these young "mad men." But if Pete, for instance, were left as one-dimensional as Joan's groom still is to us, what would we think of him? While it can't be truly comparable to rape, I would counter that Pete's treatment of his wife in this episode is similarly vicious and disgustingly domineering. But we know more about him, about where his rage is coming from. Personally, I don't forgive him anything for his background, but we know much more about Pete than we do about Joan's fiance.)

Aside from the obvious heinous scene...the saddest part was the very end, when they were leaving the office and he said,"we don't want to miss our dinner reservations" and she agreed and meekly followed him out. This was a very emblematic moment of how women were expected to behave. Thank God that the times will change and I hope this series runs long enough so we can see this incredible liberation unfold.

In those days a lot of people, maybe society in general, hardly believed that a wife could be raped. It was considered her duty to submit and as another poster noted, Joan might have just thought of it as rough sex, tho her distress was evident. Similarly, raping a prostitute was almost laughed at.

Women raped by strangers were generally told they had dressed too provacatively, were in the wrong place or "had it coming" for being a tease.

My thoughts on the scene with Joanie: the contrasts in how men treat women depending on their own sexual reactions towards them -- for example Roger, in contrast to the doc almost becomes a 'good guy' because we know he would never take her violently like this .. yet, I can't forget the look on Joan's face when he tells her she is the 'best piece of ass he every had,' , I thought that was the saddest scene ever. And don't forget that it was Roger who betrayed her professional authority over Jane and 'rehired' her without consult - completely disrespectful! The death of Marilyn Monroe, which brought Joan to tears, is critical as with it ends the coveting of the voluptuous body type and begins the "Twiggy" fixation. The bodies of women become their characters ... in feminist theory it is known as "the gaze" ... The question women's theorists pose are: As a women are you, you? --- or are you how others view you? and if men in particular, but also women (remember Joan's roommate?) have physical reactions to viewing you ... then, how much of your psyche becomes controlling the gaze other have on you? It is an important facet of feminist literary critique -- the tension, for me at least :) is to see if/how Joanie learns to control 'the gaze' and find herself. Where the popsicle woman in the ad is represented as the Good Mother (the ad is very similar to Virgin Mary iconography) ... Joan is presented as temptation .. Lilith? Mary Magdeline? ...
Just my initial random thoughts ... thanks for listening!

My thoughts on the scene with Joanie: the contrasts in how men treat women depending on their own sexual reactions towards them -- for example Roger, in contrast to the doc almost becomes a 'good guy' because we know he would never take her violently like this .. yet, I can't forget the look on Joan's face when he tells her she is the 'best piece of ass he every had,' , I thought that was the saddest scene ever. And don't forget that it was Roger who betrayed her professional authority over Jane and 'rehired' her without consult - completely disrespectful! The death of Marilyn Monroe, which brought Joan to tears, is critical as with it ends the coveting of the voluptuous body type and begins the "Twiggy" fixation. The bodies of women become their characters ... in feminist theory it is known as "the gaze" ... The question women's theorists pose are: As a women are you, you? --- or are you how others view you? and if men in particular, but also women (remember Joan's roommate?) have physical reactions to viewing you ... then, how much of your psyche becomes controlling the gaze other have on you? It is an important facet of feminist literary critique -- the tension, for me at least :) is to see if/how Joanie learns to control 'the gaze' and find herself. Where the popsicle woman in the ad is represented as the Good Mother (the ad is very similar to Virgin Mary iconography) ... Joan is presented as temptation .. Lilith? Mary Magdeline? ...
Just my initial random thoughts ... thanks for listening!

Heyjody: I found your comments re; feminist theory and "the gaze" very interesting. I use feministically oriented therapy in my work. We have discussed the power of the gaze in group work. I. too, found the scene with Roger very disturbing, Joan being completely reduced to an object - only viable to him in relation to her ability to satisfy him sexually.

I really don't like that kind of talk. And why are you shouting?

Joan leads the troops in the office. She accepts her suffering in silence. She's Joan of Arc.

Well Joan, TODAY IS YOUR LUCKY DAY! you've been nominated as post "MODERATOR" good luck!

"What if" that happened today? Would the outcome be much different? Joan would not have a viable court case: she was already having sex with him as his fiancee, she went in there alone with him willingly, she didn't scream or have any bruises to indicate that she fought him off. Furthermore, she was known to have had willing sex with two other men at Sterling Cooper and she was known to "dress provocatively". (ANY dress on a woman with a figure like that looks provocative!)
Things have not really changed as much as we think. Many women who report a date rape find themselves "raped" twice.