I think its just a TV show, and not really a vehicle for moral problem solving .Many people look to their church for that guidance, but I suppose a weekly TV drama could do the same.....

Exactly! It's merely a television show and everyone reads so much into it each and every week. This isn't supposed to be something that people look to for guidance. It's a fictionalized television program. Of course, it's not okay to grab your kid by the hair but if you have ever raised kids, sometimes they can test you to the limit, and while it's not right to hit or demean, it happens. Kids can test one's patience and that is what Sally Draper was doing to her mother. Anyway, let's not read so much into everything that each character does. It's getting so that people cannot seem to separate television from reality and the lines here are becoming blurred. Also, every time someone makes a post that disagrees with another (as I have done here) then the retorts come fast and furious and everyone begins fighting. These boards are getting weird and a bit scary, if you know what I mean.

It's not acceptable behavior. Nor more than it was acceptable for her to be rude to her maid or make that "you people" comment she made regarding Jews. But it is historically accurate that well bred, East Coast, young white woman, raised in the 40's and 50's, with parents who were raised in the 20's and 30's, would, in 1962, do and say such things.

Betty is not so unique and special that she's able to be a woman of the future, thinking in ways markedly different from her own time, and doing/acting in ways that make us believe she was born in the wrong era. That's not her character at all--Midge is more in that mold. Betty is the sort who fits in pretty well with her time and place, and only sometimes feels that glitch between what she'd like and what she must do/have given her time and place.

That's Betty, and you can accept this or not. Personally, I think it foolish to watch any good drama if you're going to hate characters because they're flawed and make mistakes, and especially foolish to watch a historical drama if you're going to be horrified and upset if they do things common to their time and place that we may now know were very wrong things to do. It would be like objecting to this show because people smoke. Hey. That's what they did in 1962.

I don't hate or like Betty because she is NOT real. Just a character, and I agree it's stupid to hate a character. I watch purely for entertainment and I don't analyze each and every little move or line of dialogue that each character makes. Actually, the show that was once so promising, has become a bit boring in my opinion. I am glad that next week is the end of Season Two (I will watch because I have followed it for both seasons); however, as for Season Three, well, I don't really care if it comes to pass or not. Don could stay in the Pacific Ocean for all I care at this point. It just lost my interest, and those flashback scenes are confusing. Just my opinion.

I think everyone is aware it's a tv show and Betty isn't real.

I guess my question was in response to all the answers I saw in the open thread - people saying that parents did it "all the time" - one person told me I didn't understand parenting if I didn't get that parents got frustrated and pulled hair, etc.

I must have had exceptional parents, and so did my neighbors, because I've never experienced it, nor can I find any justification for it. But others can, and I'm just curious at how they justify harming a child to "frustration".

Like it or not...parents spanked their kids and put them in a closet and pulled their hair and abused them in many other ways. We 60's kids know this happened. Maybe not to all of you but many. The sad thing is,...the saddest of all is that parents still do these things and much worse. It's not OK. It's never OK but anyone who thinks it didn't happen and doesn't happen now has truelly got their head in............................the sand.
I had to say this and not because I am angry or want to start a fight.... When Betty put Sally in the closet by pulling her by her hair it scared me.
And I cried for Joan.

nmkay: I feel like you do. I'm sure it was done, and still is done, but it wasn't and isn't right. I was just perplexed by the people in the thread telling me it was and that I didn't understand. I mean, I got spanked, but spanked, not hit with a hairbrush or beaten with a belt...that's just horrific. And I don't see how anyone on the receiving end could say it was justified, nor can I see how anyone can justify doing it.

But I guess I'm just spitting at the wind. If everyone felt like I did, there'd be no abuse. I just find it sad that people were subjected to it.

I wasn't going to post on this thread but decided "F*ck it!" I'm not going to analyze Bloody Betty's bizarro behavior the past 2 seasons but yanking her child's hair, along with all the other shitty things she's done toward her son Bobby, adds up to the Betty character being one shitty mom!

@PeteandTrudy: I'm happy Mad Men is concluding next Sunday as well. I'll watch the finale since I've seen every episode since the premiere. As great as this show can be, sometimes this show is a chore to watch. If I don't tune into season 3, AMC will not miss me!

zabadu, I posted on the new "Betty" site about this exact subject. I don't want to repeat it because it was long, but if you want, you can go there and read it. It is about my own experiences growing up in the 50's and 60's. Everything is subjective. Spanking can be abuse in some cases. Pulling someone's ponytail may not be abuse. It depends. There are people who think you should never lay a hand on a child at all including spanking. I agree that belts or other objects should not be used. Making kids stay in their rooms used to be a good punishment before TV's, computers, etc. I remember how boring it was to be confined to my room all afternoon. But I learned a few lessons and didn't repeat the bad behavior that got me into that situation. I don't know how old you are, Zabadu, but I'm 57. My parents are both dead now, but all in all they were very good parents. Yeah, I got my ponytail pulled a few times, but I was also told I was loved, my needs were always taken care of. They did the best they could considering they were a product of their own upbringing in the 20's and 30's when things were very different from the 50's and 60's.

Visan, what? You are thinking about leaving us? Well, you may think AMC will not miss you, but we will miss your posts.

Thirteen, I agree that it is foolish to watch a period drama which does portray that period (50's and 60's) extremely accurately if you are going to get upset and hate the characters because they act the way people acted in that period of history. Don has his life at work in NYC with his job and lots of mistresses and his perfect family life at home with Betty, where she is supposed to just shut up, be the good wife, not ask about his "other" life in NYC, and not be hurt about all of this. That's the way it was back then for a lot of women. However, I'm sure they knew about their husband's affairs and I'm sure it hurt them greatly. Women have come a long way; today most women won't put up with being disrespected and belittled. I know there are some people out there who are disgusted with Don's character because of the way he treats Betty. I, personally, haven't liked it at times, but know that it's an accurate portrayal of the times. If I were truly upset and disgusted to the point where it really bothered me, I certainly would not be watching the show. I think it's a brilliant show and very well written.

Zabadu: Assuming everyone knows something is dangerous because YOU cannot KNOW what someone else is thinking or feeling. Yes, I am sure most know it is indeed just drama, but MY POINT was that I think some people get a little too much into it and read too much into it. With that said, I can see this particular thread, like so many others, becoming just a tad hostile. I notice that when there are about oh say, 10-12 comments posted, things begin to turn heated. No offense to anyone. Good night.

In most dramas, soaps included, there is always a villain. Remember JR in "Dallas"? Problem here is most of us haven't been able to pick one villain. Is it Dick/Don, Pete, Betty, Peggy, Joan,THE DOCTOR??????? The villain has not become obvious. We know Visan doesn't like Betty. But some see past her"princess" behaviour. Dick/Don is seen as haunted but driven. Pete is a snob but I think there are good reasons for the way he is. Look at his parents! I believe he has low self -esteem. I see good and bad in all the main characters.
Now we have the dr. on here and he is the lowest so I vote for him.
Again: It's just a tv show..............But a show I love!

To me, it's clear that Betty was not the disciplinarian in the household. She always left that up to Don, ie: "you need to spank him!" (referring to their son). Knowing Don's background, he does not want to hit his son. However, now that Don is not around, Betty has to dish out the discipline.

When I was young my Mom did not hit us but she left that up to my father! She always said...."wait till your father gets home!" Poor Dad, nothing like being the "monster" as soon as you walk through the door! :)

You all on this thread need to chill - my mom did a lot worse to me than pull my hair or put me in a closet. More kids these days need a parent to wup their behinds - not buy them off with gifts like Betty did

Visan: I will truly miss you insight and wit if you leave the Boards for next season.....

re: parenting/discipline: I am not a parent but did manage child development programs for the first 10 years of my professional career. Do believe in spanking under very particular circumstances .... don't believe in arm twisting, hair-pulling and shoving kids into closets or in basements....
..my mom was a married but single parent (my father was in the air force and frequently on TDY for extended periods the longest being 3 years between my 6th and 9th years..he was stationed at SAC (strategic air command) sitting on some missel silos when i was born :-) and was very frighteningly (for me) detailed to Florida during the Cuban Missle Crisis)....long story short... even though my dad was also unfaithful I NEVER experience my mom bending to or resorting to extreme methods of discipline...She used a switch on us (very,very, thin limbed branch from a bush...it stang a lot and enough for us not to repeat the same infraction...but dad only paddled me once the entire time I was young....I say this to say that although I was quite a hand full neither parent used corporal punishment very frequently and I think I grew up quite all right...home was a very, very disciplined place - my dad was a drill instructor ...but a physically safe place that my brothers and I always felt we could bring friends home to....

..So I think Betty is really loosing it and needs some counseling not PA but may spiritual or something because these kids are on the way to being damaged eve if it is just a t v program...oh yeah and I look at this episode again..Betty was more pissed that Sally had take her LAST cigarette to play with that she was upset that Sally would harm herself either by smoking or playing with matches.....
just my 2 cents worth

eafrn1, I can relate. My mom always said "wait until your dad gets home, you will be in so much trouble." I think many moms in the 50's did that. I'm guilty of saying that a couple of times to my son, but mostly took care of the discipline myself when my husband was at work.

divayaya69: I had my ponytail pulled as a kid and so did my sister. It didn't hurt that much when your hair was in a ponytail, not like pulling hair that is hanging straight down. I would much rather have my hair pulled than be hit with a switch. I was never hit with anything but my mom's hand.

You are probably right that Betty is depressed and needs counseling. Who wouldn't be in her circumstances? However back in those days, there was no good counseling available as we've seen from her psychiatrist. After what he did, she probably wouldn't trust another psychiatrist anyway.

If circumstances don't change in the Draper household, I agree that the kids will be psychologically affected. However I don't agree that the disciplinary measures alone that Betty chose to use will have any lasting effects on the kids as long as the kids know that they are loved. As someone else mentioned on the corporal punishment thread, it can be the psychological that hurts more than the physical.

No offense to anyone, but this is just a TV series and it's kind of like you are speaking about Betty as though she is a real person. I mean, she is a real person, of course, in the form of the actress who portrays her, but the scene was fictional. Yes, it may have happened to someone out there in real life, but I think that sometimes people let some of this stuff get to them too much. I agree, abuse is never right or justified, but until you have actually raised children, it's difficult to put yourself into that position. They can be about as trying as anything can be! Willful, stubborn, uncooperative, nasty, hateful, and on and on the list goes. Sure, we all like to think that we're adults and can rise above it, but when you're in the middle of dealing with a child over something or other, it's not always easy to be the perfect reasonable adult, especially if you are under stress from other things. It can try the patience of a saint, and I don't know about you, but I am far from sainthood myself! I think those of us who grew up in the 50s and 60s (and heck, even today's kids) probably experienced some WRONGS at the hands of our parents. My own parents were far from perfect but I also know I am far from perfect too, though I would like to think otherwise. Someone once told me, "You cannot give what you don't have." I think some people did not (and do not) have the skills to deal with their children in any way but the way the character of Betty did. Was it right? No! Does it make the character of Betty a bad person? No, just very flawed. And that's the thing, everyone is flawed. Again, I am not condoning abuse (physical or mental) in any way (I absolutely loathe it), but every time some character on the show does something, I think it hits too close to home for some people. If this is the case, it might be best to tune out at that point (and you know at what point you are becoming upset or enraged, or whatever the case may be) and come back later. Just my thoughts.