Don't have anything to add, just enjoyed your very creative different alternatives of the mystery person Don called. Nice food for thought, thanks strongandsilent.

if it was a family member he wouldn't have to say both names

I believe the person he spoke to was the blonde that came to see him at the car sales place in the flashback.

Donald Draper has kept the identity of Dick Whitman as a "sleeper", in order to establish a bailout from his current life. I believe that the person as to whom Don contacted is on "hold", so that he can revert back when the situation arises. As to who that person is.......I am in anticipation. Oh, the skeleton's we keep!

Zealot:
The book he sent was "Meditations in an Emergency" by John O'Hara.

@ Zealot: No it wasn't; it was Meditations in an Emergency.

strongand silent,
I enjoyed reading your speculation about the person to whom Don mailed the book of poetry and the recipient of the phone call Don made in California. I, too, think it is the same person, someone from the past, whoever that might be. Anything is possible.

The book you mention is "Meditations in an Emergency," a book of poetry by Frank O'Hara published in 1957. Don related personally to one of the poems in the book which resulted in his sending it to an unknown (to us anyway) someone. The poet Frank O'Hara died young at 40 after a freak accident on Fire Island in 1966.

Notes: It was 1952 when Don worked at the car dealership, not 1950. Two years in Don's mysterious timeline makes a difference!

If there had been relatives of Don's mom, wouldn't they, rather than his father, have taken Don in when his mother died? Just a thought.

sixty8fury,
That soliloquy from "Macbeth" is one of my all-time favorite passages from Shakespeare. Very appropriate in this context. Thanks for including it.

strongandsilent, Many thanks for starting a thought-provoking thread.

There seems to be a little problem in posting time continuity this morning, but I think we can all figure it out.

Just want to give another "shout out" to sixty8fury in case she missed it above since it looks like I thanked her before she posted!

The preview shows Don with sailors walking in the background, making me believe that he was near a military base. I feel that it may be someone from his past when he was in the service who knows about his identity switch; he was recognized on the train as Dick in season 1, so there must be plenty of people he would like to keep in touch. I know he wasn't in the navy, but who knows. Something/someone made him want to go west after that weekend at Betty's parents' home, and her not letting him back in the house.( BRRRR she is a chilly one. The phone number was in his black book.)

At the time, I thought the book was sent to Rachel, but now it seems their relationship petered out in a mundane and predictable way from the last episode of season 1. She did return to America, and pulled the account from Sterling Cooper. If Don could ever have gotten to the point where he explained Dick Whitman to her, I think the relationship would have continued. That was the one thing he couldn't do, and his extreme and mysterious reaction to Campbell's discovery was what alarmed her about him. This correspondent apparently knows Don is Dick, which precludes Rachel. If Don had ever gotten to that point with Rachel, I think he'd still be with her, and I think we'd have seen hints of such a breakthrough. Instead, Rachel sees Don at his lowest point, with Bobbie, "doing business," just reinforcing Rachel's opinion of him as an immoral man.

it could be a friend from the past. Who knows. It could either be a woman or a man. Its still up in the air. I think Don just wants to get out of the crazy house. I mean Joy and her family/friends were just plain weird, even Don thought they were weird for a moment.

i couldn't help but think of Macbeth, which was where Faulkner apparently got the title of that novel - here's a part of the soliliquy it's in -

"Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

it's pretty fitting for Don/Dick if you ask me. I think the jet set reminded Don that he can do whatever he wants. Families don't have to be the typical 2.5 kids and a wagon - families can be many different things. I definately think that whomever Don/Dick contacted, it has to do with his family, or someone he thought of as family.

I had exactly the same thought!

Granted we're all just speculating, but I'm going to agree that he called the lady who came to the car dealership back in '52--and I'm going to say that, yes, she was the one he sent the O'Hara book to as well. And yes, he'd have to say his full name, as she might know more than one Dick and it's probably been a long time.

The interesting thing about the lady at the car dealership is that she was a blonde. When Don sees that blonde at the bar, we're supposed to think he's having a flashback to Betty--but was he? Might not Betty, herself, have been chosen for her blonde hair? Don very predictably goes for brown haired women as mistresses. (Maybe there was more to the Marilyn/Jackie idea Don has than we think?) This would suggest that blondes are off-limits when it comes to affairs. Blondes are for marriage.

Perhaps the problem Don has always had with Betty is that she was never the blonde that he really wanted to marry. She was merely a substitute for this original blonde. We assume Don's trip to L.A. is a whim, but given the meltdown of his New York life, perhaps he came in the hopes of having the life with this woman he thinks he ought to have had, but didn't? He only needed a bit of courage to make the phone call and his time with Joy gave him that?

Certainly, it must seem to him that his "tomorrows" all look the same. That, like Macbeth, he made a wrong choice and is going nowhere. Maybe "yesterday" is the only direction left to him.

Intriguing thread, Strongandsilent.

I believe the book Don/Dick sent to his correspondent was Kerouac's "On The Road"-- which he noticed a man in a bar reading prior to sending it to him/her. My assumption was that the book was sent to Rachel.

Thirteen, many good points. I do think there is a dichotomy between the blonde, outwardly perfect, staid Betty, who makes a suitable wife, and his brunette mistresses....I don't think Don went to California at all on a whim. Characters make meaningful decisions in works of art. He's dealing with existential questions on his trip, and they seem to revolve around the person he ultimately calls.

When Don talks to Rachel about going away, at first he doesn't care about the place. But then she says, "Someplace warm?" And he says, "Sure. Los Angeles." So LA seems to have been a destination for a while.

Certainly, the car dealership incident is a matter that needs to be resolved, and I expect will be. But we envision that Don's correspondent is someone important to him from his past, and someone he has a personal relationship with, and something seems a bit off with the car dealership woman as a candidate on those fronts. She was looking for Don Draper, not Dick Whitman. The sense I get is that she knew Don before, not Dick. So how did things get from the point they appeared to be, to Don letting her in that he is Dick? The feeling I get also is that that woman spooked him, that she's a painful memory, one who makes him flee from the car dealership ten years later. I don't see him corresponding with this person. I see the car dealership lady as a cop, not a confidante.

The first thing I thought of when he made that call was the woman from the car dealership. Every week I hope that they will be resolving that and every week I've been shot down.

It seemed like the whole Palm Springs thing was arranged to show the all powerful Don Draper/Dick Whitman that even HE can get in over his head sometimes. Those people are WAY out of his league.

that lady he saw in the bar was betty. You saw January Jones face in some shots, and then when he snapped out of the trance it was just come other ladies. I tv-oed it and watched again and again, its January's face. He missses Betty. He saw almost everywhere in LA. even in Joy. She had Betty's mannerisms, voice, and of course he ridiculous comments "The sex was good, the book is boring!" Betty would have totally said that. Plus I think when Don looks at the wine glass, he knows Betty likes wine, but also there was crack in the glass which could resemble something else. On the blog with Matt Weiner, Jon Hamm says that with Joy, Don just wanted to escape, there is some attraction there he says, but ultimately there is nothing. Its empty. Joy was simply another woman whom Don used to feel young and alive again after his mini heart attack (I still dont think it was a heat stroke!)

Very interesting, thought provoking comments here.

Maybe the writers were pressed for time and didn't want to draw out the phone call Don made, since it did come at the end of the episode, and they just wanted to give us a doozie of a cliffhanger. But I got the impression that the person on the other end was not surprised to hear from Dick. There was no chit chat about how are you, how's the family, where are you, etc...It's as though the person on the other end of the phone line was expecting the call. This person and D/D have probably been in contact through the years.
It's also not very clear where that person is - except it was a long distance call. (I think I counted ten numbers as he dialed.)

Hopefully, we will soon find out just who this person is.

whoever Don was talking to on the phone had to be female. He sounded too content and pleased to be talking to a man. It could be Rachel. Perhaps he's been secretly keeping in touch with her. If thats the case he obviously confided in her regarding his real identity. If not, then its certaintly someone from his past life as Dick Whitman. Don's reckless behaviour is going to catch up with him soon.

You're welcome Remembering - it's one of my favorites as well. It's actually the reason i started to read Faulkner in the first place!

As far as the person Don calls - my speculation is that, like strongandsilent said, the car dealership woman is someone who knew the real Don Draper. When she approached him at the dealership, if she were Mrs. Draper or soon-to-be, he might have lied to her saying that Don left her for someone while he was at war and never came back. Leaving her with unanswered questions.

Thinking back to when he was giving Peggy her pep talk about 'forget it ever happened' and about how easy it is to forget it all happened - i believe Don went so deep into his character that when reminders of Dick Whitman show up, he gets jolted back into reality. When confronted, it's fight or flight. When his brother showed up and Don offered him money to leave - he commited suicide. Since the "fight" reaction to reminders of Dick Whitman doesn't seem to pan out very well, it seems like Don chooses "flight" instead. When Pete finds him out, he wants to run, and after the bomb/missle presentation, Don runs by getting into Joy's car. Maybe the nomad jet setters made him realize that running isn't the answer - its the problem.

According to another site, the address/info Don scribbled was a Long Beach, Californmia location. So he's around sailors. Then it must be the now-defunct Long Beach Naval Shipyard. So that could be an old buddy from the War. No clue....But whoever is in Long Beach is the person who received that Frank O'Hara work. And I don't think it's a woman.

This feels like an episode of Unsolved Mysteries! Hee!

Remember that Don/Dick signed the book "D." (I actually tried to post that last week and the post wouldn't go thru.) I think he is getting together with the blonde who came to the dealership. I'm eager to find out where that dealership was. It'll be great to learn Don's timeline and where he went after Korea and how he ended up in NYC at SC.

Wow, strongandsilent; I hadn't made the connection between the note regarding the book and the phone call. Good catch. I can totally see now how they might be connected, especially since the title of the season finale references the book. At this point, I'm at a loss as to guess who the mystery person might be. Probably someone we haven't met yet.

I'm remembering a month or two back when some posters speculated that the person Don sent the book to was Peggy (I think that thread is still under most recommended). Do people still feel that way?

Miss Siff is no longer appearing in cameos. Matt Weiner said that she only came back to bring a closure to Don, and make him even more depressed at fucking it up and not telling her the truth. I do agree with Visan that it probably isnt a woman. And now with rumors that Don might be a CIA agent who knows it could be a guy he works for. Maybe somebody in sterling cooper is a communist or something and Don is there to find them out. I could totally see Bert or Roger as somebody bad there.

I agree Polginac! I need to see he rest of the show though to make out if Don is a spy. Since Pete whinny ass told Cooper Don was someone else in season 1, I would think he would have asked Don to clarify if he suspected something. But we will all no when the last show airs for this season!

At the end of "For Those Who Think Young," the first episode of Season 2, there was a moving voice-over by Don reciting the last lines of a poem ("Mayakovsky") from Frank O'Hara's "Meditations in an Emergency." In view of what has happened to Don in California, the words are much more meaningful to us now.

"Now I am quietly waiting for
the catastrophe of my personality
to seem beautiful again,
and interesting, and modern.

The country is grey and
brown and white in trees,
snows and skies of laughter
always diminishing, less funny
not just darker, not just grey.

It may be the coldest day of
the year, what does he think of
that? I mean, what do I? And if I do,
perhaps I am myself again."

When the "catastrophe" of his personality seems "beautiful again," and he becomes "myself again," what kind of man will Dick/Don be?

The recipient of the book of poetry that Don mailed almost has to be the same person that Don phoned in California.

Ready for something completely outside the box?

Don's a mole for the CIA.

His substitution of identity was discovered in 1952 after the woman at the used car lot reported him to the Army. The CIA heard about it, brought him in, wiped out the woman's report and could have allowed him to be imprisoned but let him go. With the qualification that he was still on his own so don't let anyone find out about the substitution again, including the Army. (Remember this was about the time of the McCarthy hearings.)

But if he came up with something that seemed strange or interesting, or if he came into contact with possible foreign agents, to give them a call... The "love to see you" comment was just in case anyone was listening in.

Don's a very good spy with a total cover. A much better one than Global Exports.

Thinking like you Ritt.

Don has the absolute demeanor of a spy. It's as if he has no personality at all. He's never spontaneous, when not at work he hardly ever gives his opinion on anything. He never starts a conversation, he observes others. Someone needs to ask him a question directly, or he would remain silent all evening. He's cautious with his responses and never shows an ounce of interest in joining a conversation. With Betty he is never completely relaxed. He seems programmed to be the best at his job only. I've also noticed that his walk seems slightly over exaggerated. Not sure why, maybe to show fake enthusiam at work. His solitary interests (reading, foreign movies) are also something not shared with anyone else. His interest in speaking with Betty's psychiatrist seemed off kilter. More to do with finding out if Betty had suspicions about his past rather than any worry over her own issues. His rejection of his brother was so over the top. Why would he have to cut off all contact with him? They could have stayed in touch periodically. No one had to know. Unless he was warned that absolutely no one from his real life, including relatives, could know his whereabouts or even that he was alive.

You could say this has all to do with his living a lie as Don Draper, however, after so many years you would think he would have let his guard down by now. Just a thought.

Along the same lines as my last post:

It's also may be the reason he did so well at the "naming" game. If I recall correctly, he didn't mention any American cities, only foreign ones. Hmmm.... What did he do in between WWII and Korea? Young enough to have traveled under the radar... Although Europe before 1948 wasn't as good for tourists as it is now. Perhaps he didn't need subtitles when he was watching "La Notte."

@penultimate -- Your observations are in the main correct and good, (I particularly like that he has no interest in joining a conversation. It was comical seeing Peggy trying to engage him about something as quotidian as Marilyn Monroe's suicide) but I would take issue that "it's as if he has no personality at all." I think Don is about certain things, and it's predictable how he will react in certain situations. He does have values -- in fact, ones which are much more pronounced than many other people's. Maybe it's just semantics, but you can't be a strong presence (which he is) and have no personality.

What he is about is the American ethos. He is a Rand character, and he believes in a meritocracy. He put his secret identity on the line to fight against Campbell, who threatens the meritocratic ideal. While not a social pioneer, Don is willing to give Peggy a shot because she does good work. He is sympathetic to the plight of the newly hired "colored boy" Roger mentions.

The other side of the American ideal is a ruthlessness, however, and Don is intolerant of failure (or at least failure of performance). When Peggy is embarrassed about the relaxicizer and "can't put it into words", he says to her, "Then you have failed." He says to Kinsey, "Remind me why I pay you?"

Don believes in success, albeit, success earned through hard work. He knows from experience that if he indulged his emotions and his past, which are limiting, he could not have gotten where he is. So, he encourages this same outlook in others, some of whom have less daunting emotions to confront, and don't need the same space from them.

Don believes in freedom. He tells Betty when she says she wants to go back to modeling, "I can't stop you from doing what you want to do." He's gentle, and doesn't hit his children. He doesn't believe in ruling by force.

He guards his own freedom of choice like life itself. Campbell says, "No one tells Draper what to do."

Part of what America is about is power, and Don is not always as respectful of others' freedom as he should be. He threatens Bobbie with at the very least revocation of sexual favors if she doesn't "do as [he says]." Don is obviously obsessed with power, be it whether he is sparring with Roger, or whomever. The Don/Bobbie battle was a hard-fought match, and it's unclear who really got what they wanted, and who was made to do the other's bidding. Maybe "everyone got what they wanted," as Jimmy said.

Don believes in the value of a hard-earned dollar and material things. He is, after all, in advertising. His parting advice to Midge is $5,000 and "buy yourself a car."

As far as whether Don will be shown a CIA agent. I have no idea, but I hope not. That seems rather cliche, while the intrigue of Draper is someone who would construct a world such as his by choice. "CIA agent" makes everything explicable and bypasses the real psychic struggle.

As I recount the ways in which Draper embodies the American ideal, it is interesting to note how many of these also seem the masculine ideal. Women have a particularly difficult time trying to progress in a country whose values are tailored towards attitudes which are more atttractive to the opposite sex. It seems natural, then, that Mad Men would be about both the American ethos and women's struggle for equality.

The blonde at the dealership came in there looking for Don Draper, not Dick Whitman.

ritt and penultimate, i can see don as a spy in very deep cover. a real sleeper. your points are excellent, penultimate, about don's demeanor. not forthcoming at all. i also think the "flashbacks" to the explosion and identity switch are dubious. i've always wondered about the "lost years" of dick whitman, who was born in 1926 (he's 36 in 1962) and plenty old enough to have been drafted in 1944 (age 18). If the identity switch took place in 1950 or 1951, then dick was 24 or 25 when he "became" don draper.

you are right, in the city-naming game all his cities were foreign...and all were places that a young spy may have visited in the early days of the cold war....

Visan, WHOA!! Don is coming to Long Beach!?!
I live in Long Beach - Gosh I gotta get my hair done - shave my legs, mix up a pitcher of martinis. WHEE-E-E-E....

also, where did all that cash come from ($5000) that don had stashed in his home office desk, which he gave to payoff his younger brother? i seem to recall that he had more than the 5k in that drawer.

(btw, does anyone remember what happened to that money after the brother hanged himself? did don get it back?)

I thought maybe Adam's money (formerly Don's) went to the city. The hotel clerk says Adam left a bunch of money. I remember that.

Yeah, Laurie B - I'm still not clear why people thought the mystery person on the phone with Don was the blonde from the car dealership who tells him, "You're not Don Draper." My impression of her was she was looking for the real Don Draper and was disappointed to see our Don. So why would she care about keeping up with Dick Whitman 10 years later?

Another question:
Where did Don get the money for his own used car dealership in 1952? Remember, when talking to the blonde woman he asked, "Did you see my ad?" Not "our ad," thereby indicating he owned the business. Credit wasn't easy to get and owning, borrowing the money, even temporarily, for several cars requires a lot of trust by someone, especially since we don't know if he had anything to do with car sales.

So... what was he doing before he went into the Army? More and more I don't think he was trying to get away from home and his stepmom. It might have been a completely different situation. The judge might have given him a choice - jail or the Army and Don wasn't even half-ready to admit to Lt. Draper that was why he was in Korea.

ritt, you're right - he did say "my ad" - i can;t imagine that car dealers let an individual salesmen place his own ad - or do they? real estate agents (who work for a broker) place their own ads - but as for the practice in the car business, does anyone know how it's done (or was done in the early 50s)?

was their a name painted on the window or other clue as to ownership of the used car lot?

also ritt - are you saying he committed a crime during the "lost years" of 1944 (the date on the photo with dick and adam) and 1950?

correction "was there a name..."

could it be that Don actually killed his father? I mean the story he told Rachel about his father getting drunk and getting hit by horse was somewhat comical, but then again I have read and seen on television that it does happen. But my guess is maybe Don killed his father, had the possiblity of Jail time or Army and chose army. But maybe he had an accomplice in the murder of his father, possibly his Mother whom he claims died during childbirth with him. HMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm.

Polignac:
Apparently Dick's father died when he was ten. Uncle Max was there with his stepmother and Adam to pick up the casket at the train station.

It would have to be for something else. Much less violent than murder.

We may find out this Sunday.

I guess I'll leave this allover the www. My thoughts; Oh and by the way this is a show about Mad Men and the 1960's, which in and of itself is just very cool. I love this era. Given it is a show with such detail, is it possible this spy stuff or clues are just coincidence. I guess so, probably, but I enjoy the show so much, that I will continue my insane speculation.
So back to my conspiracy theory as it were: I first considered this notion yesterday. He dials a 9 digit number at the end of Epidosde 11. A show with such detail and they miss soemthing as simple as a phone number. All of his romantic interests were, at the time, suspect groups, beatniks, jews, actors, and now jet set. Of course, they were all super sexy woman too . Lot's of things point to the covert agent, even the bar scene where the guy is reading Meditaitons in a Emergency. He goes to movies in the afternoon. To meet contacts, like in the bar, after the doctors. They both seemed like such strangers to each other. He gets the same book and mails it to someone. He always appears a bit uncomfortable when war issues arise, Bay of Pigs, multiple strike missiles etc. And why buy off his step brother, with a fortune. How does he go from used car salesman to madison ave ad agency partner, as soon as he is recognized as not being Don Draper. maybe he does not want to becoem too noticable with the cadillac After he fainted, then the look on his face when the doctor is going to make the injection. Questioning just who those people are. Is the girl Joy, a spy too? Lots of unanswered questions. But of course he says he might just be a really good spy when questioned. It's a great show, but this woud make it even cooler. Keep in mind that the Cold War was a pretty big deal back then, and the Cuban missile crisis is just around the corner.

...strongandsilent on 10/14/08 @12:50p.m....

Very deep insight with your comment (re Don):

"...some...have less daunting emotions to confront, and DON'T NEED THE SAME SPACE FROM THEM." (My caps., for emphasis). What a heavy-duty and thought-provoking insight! Thank you.

But, since rational minds can disagree (and still be friends), I take issue with you on the following:

1. The idea that Don is ruthless and intolerant of failure. Disagree. I don't think Don criticizes anyone he feels can't take it, and he does it for different reasons in each person's case:

With Peggy...("Then you have failed.') It was an
appropriate thing to say because her whole
job is about finding the right words. And
she would not have felt threatened or put down.

With Kinsey...("Remind me why I pay you..."):

Doesn't Don make that remark when he comes
upon the guys standing around making fun of
Freddy?

I think Don pursues and demands excellence,
but I would not call him "intolerant of failure,"
because he doesn't demand more than what he
knows a person can give. One of his strengths
is his ability to read people and understand who
and what they are in a very short time.

He was "on Freddy's side" because he knew
Freddy was a good man who happend to have a
problem -- Alcoholism--that had gotten the best
of him. (And maybe Don admired the fact that
Freddy was kind, and had made something of
his life despite this load on his shoulder --unlike
D's stepfather)..


Don would never have "chastised" Freddy in the
manner in which he did Peggy and Kinsey. Don
knew that Freddy was doing the best he could
(and even straining to achieve that much) -- but
that Peggy and Kinsey were capable of more.

The one (office) person who comes to mind that
Don "let go" was the Secretary who really wasn't
"up to" the job -- and even then, he did it trying to
spare her feelings as much as (being Don) he
could. He sent her back to the switchboard.

Jane he dumped as his secretary because he
didn't like her morals.

I agree with you that sometimes he "plays" ruthless, or comes across as ruthless, but in my opinion, it's usually in the course of standing up for what he thinks is right -- not for personal power, or even for success (at this stage of his life)

2. Regarding: "...he's not always as respectful of others' freedom as he should be." I don't go along with your "Bobbie" example. From her very first scene, Bobbie showed herself as a tough, manipulative, ("Jimmy always does what I tell him"), street-smart dame who doesn't mind (in fact enjoys) a good fight--just for the sake of the fight!

You said "....(Don) threatens Bobbie...with at least the revocation of sexual favors if she doesn't do as he says..."

What he wants her to do is to get Jimmy to apologize to Mrs. Utz for Jimmy's cruel remarks about her weight -- a very appropriate request for Don to make. Granted they'll lose the account if Jimmy doesn't apologize, so that's Don motive...but keeping accounts is Don's job!! And Don probably would have simply asked Jimmy himself, except that Bobbie (aka " Mrs.Control-Manipulator-Jimmy's Wife") shows up before Don could do that and tells Don that Jimmy hates him (probably not true at that point) and that the only thing Jimmy will do is what SHE tells him to do! (Talk about a bee-ouch!) So then Don thinks he has to deal through her rather than directly with Jimmy!

AND she did that simply because she wanted to get into Don's pants! I SEE DON AS THE VICTIM WITH HER! He finally "got rough" with her, because that's the only thing someone like her responds to --and even the "getting rough," she took as part of the "game," and loved it.

Regarding your question: "WHO WON?" in the BOBBIE/DON battle --nobody. The Bobbi/Jimmy family didn't LOSE --because they have nothing TO lose. No respect, no love for each other, etc.

Don won as far as "keeping the Utz account," but he LOST everyting else...and I mean everything. I see that whole entanglement as not only the final straw for Betty in the marriage, but also Don's final straw at having any hope that he can continue, as is, in his current life.

And I think that brought about the "beginnning of the end" for him in his NY life as it was.

Another point: ...when you said "Don is obviously obsessed with power..," I would say that Don (up to this point), was "obsessed with SUCCESS."

If your thesis is that to gain success you must gain power, and to gain power you must be ruthless...I'm hoping that this show is partly about that. It might be, because in DD/DW -- the creator/writers seem to have created someone (I hope) who has the intelligence, determination,
talent, charism, (and hopefully) the compassion and spirituality to achieve the kind of power that brings about good.

Perhas the only REAL power is the kind that you don't have to "use" in a ruthless manner--in fact the concept of "using" it at all is a contradiction to what it is. (That kind you have to "use" ultimately gives you hbp and maybe keeps you up at night).

I read that show's creator has said that this is a story about a man who finds love for the first time.

Maybe the love he finds is for himself and for life.

And maybe the "moral of the story" is that the "role model" for the American idiom for success needs to be the same for both men and women, black and white... So that none of us has to attempt to adopt the characteristics of the tradtional "Group in Power," but instead aspire to a 21st century ideal of more humane,honorable generous and compassionate characteristics that bestow success because we, like Dan, just might change our definition of success.

@jackie_monroe

Don overlooks moral failings, or probably better put, vulnerabilities. We tend to either love or hate ourselves, and here is a case where Don empathasizes with people like Peggy and Freddy and gives them a pass. He does not suffer fools gladly, though, and I would stick by my statement that he is constitutionally intolerant of failure (failure of performance, as I wrote). I believe the "remind me why I pay you?" comment to Kinsey was in episode 2 or 3 of season 1. Don is enormously impatient with Kinsey in multiple instances, a nice enough guy who simply doesn't seem to have a knack for the job.

More than anything else, I think Don's language is telling. He's a no-nonsense person, who (ironically) doesn't lie to himself except about the existential questions. Don doesn't mince words, doesn't see things in grey. He knows someone who has failed when he sees them. He has a built-in BS detector, and is suspicious of new-fangled ideas, like engineering new people for space, or the European ad boys, or psychoanalysis.

I think we could parse the Don and Bobbie exchanges many ways, and go dizzy doing so. It is probably best to view Don's actions there as consistent with his character in general, but for me, his threatening of Bobbie and performing a sex act to mollify her was his low point. I contrasted his behavior there with his behavior with Campbell, when he made "the call on Duck Phillips" despite the threat.

Don has never been about ends regardless of means. I always thought his real objection to dumping Mohawk for American was that, not that it was necessarily bad business. That it didn't work out just made the point stronger. You can say that he didn't cede power to Bobbie when he used sex for business ends, whereas he would have ceded power by promoting Campbell instead of Phillips, and you'd probably be right.

The question remains whether his honorable behavior in the Campbell affair was about principle or power. I would say some of both. I do think principle was involved, because before going to Cooper with Phillips, Don said to Campbell, "I thought aboutwhat you said. And then I thought about you, and what a deep lack of character you have." That would seem to implicate principle in the decision.

Don's need for power seems especially pronounced with women. It's central in his dealings with Bobbie. Don felt humiliated in episode 1 with Rachel, not just because she challenged him, but because she was a woman challenging him. And when Roger and Don have their pissing contest with eating oysters and climbing the stairs, at the crux of that is Roger horning in in Don's relationship with Betty.

I think many of us admire Don because he embodies the American ethos and the American dream. His character is drawn in clear lines, and we like that, even if Don is misguided. I think Mad Men is critical of the American dream, though. A central idea is what is "all this" for? Betty has asked that, as has Trudy Campbell.

I agree with you that Don "reads and understands people well," by the way....

...strongandsilent on Oct.15 @ 6:07p.m.

Interesting. I've read your post a couple of times, and will read it again, as it provokes a lot of thought.

But rather than respond to your "substantive" issues at the moment, I am more fascinated by what I am noticing in my own reaction -- which is to try to figure out how I can most rationally "appeal" to your reasoning in order to "win you over" to my thinking in areas where I disagree with you. (Funny, isn't it! --This need to "win" by being seen as "right". Or maybe it's not even a motive that competitive. Maybe it's just desire for validation).

Whatever...the only real "thorn in the side" to me is that, despite your acknowledgement of D's "good points," they don't seem to be "enough" for you. You're still beating him to death for his need to feel power over women.... While, in contrast, I'm thinking that for his "era," and for all the potential "currency" reasons D has to hold the value of women not very "dear"--(he's like a rock star, or like JFK -- women throw themselves at him)--he treats most of them, most of the time pretty darn good. (Remember his feelings for the woman in the elevator when "the guys" where lascivisouly talking about a "hottie?" D actually made them stop)!

And then there are the men , even today, who STILL think of wives as "possessions."

Now this is the part I find fascinating in my own reaction:...rather than using more examples from the show--a method that you've aptly pointed out would result in endless parsing...I find that I my "instinct" is to try to "explain away" our divergent viewpoints by anylyzing YOU! (eg.. "maybe from a younger generation, lives in a less chauvinstic part of the country (small town vs big city); associates with a more enlightened set of males, etc, etc).. You get the idea....

I'm thinking that this (my reaction) proves one of the themes of the show--and that is: how important "identity and background" are to people. We need it to help us try to "understand' each other, and our divergent viewpoints.

Since I'm among others here who say that their posting is a new phenomenon,( inspired somehow (almost" magically", compellingly and irresistibly by this show ) I will end with this tongue-in-check thought:

Is the whole MM phenomenon a huge, well-planned and finely-wrought "social engineering" experiment wherein through our computers, we're all finally engaged with, talking to, and trying to understand each other -- just a big ole' world-wide group therapy session...that will one day bring about world peace and harmony?

I hope you know I jest -- not with the intention of "marginalizing" what I myself spend hours doing -- but just because it's a thought I had, and I felt like "sharing."

As I've read elsewhere on this site -- there are those who feel most of us posting here are super-intelligent, articulate, and "special" people. (And I hope you're lol'ing right now, as you read this). But we know it's true! (wink-wink)

stongandsilent, I just watched the You Tube video of "The Carousel" and I believe Don really loves Betty. Watching that video it seems obvious by the way he looks when he's talking about feelings, about going to a place where you know you are loved, the slides he shows in the presentation, ending with 2 slides - one of him carrying Betty on their wedding day and the other of him and Betty kissing on New Years Eve. If he didn't love Betty, he would have shown more slides of just him and the kids and he certainly wouldn't have ended the presentation with slides just of him and Betty. The presentation turned out so good that everyone was teary eyed.

As for Rachel, I don't think he was ever in love with her. He was attracted to her like all his other affairs and she happened to be a convenient person to run to when he was afraid of being exposed to SC by Pete. Don always had his moments where he just wanted to run away from everything. I also think he tries to tell Betty about his life in bits and pieces, but is afraid of telling her the whole truth because it would mean her entire identity is also a lie. Don loves Betty but is afraid to let himself fall head over heals for her for fear of losing her for good if/when she finds out the truth. That is the reason he has so many affairs - to stay somewhat detached from Betty so it won't hurt so much if he does lose her in the end.

@tangfl -- I could probably come up with 100 examples to refute what you say, but I think it's so offbase, and so generally ignorant of the text, that it's not worth doing. To give you just a few: why does Don tell Rachel in episode 1 (in his pre-Rachel, betty universe) that he's never been in love? Why does he react to the cataclysmic episode of Roger's heart attack by running to Rachel, and say "This is all there is"? He seems to mean love. Why do Don and Rachel have the same oddity of their mothers dying in childbirth, something that makes Don start? Why does Don react to his initial realization that he can't be with Rachel by contemplating suicide at his kid's birthday party? Why does Don confide to Rachel the general identify of his parents, something he never did to Betty, or to Bobbie or Midge, either, for that matter? He's able to do this with Rachel in a brief acquaintanceship, while he isn't able to do that with Betty in years. Why isn't he able to make love to Betty? Why does Rachel say she "feels so close to him" and that "it feels natural" being with Don? Anyone should be able to see that Rachel engages Don, and Betty bores him. Rachel and Betty have different personalities and different stations in life, and Rachel's are more attractive to Don than Betty's. Why, above all, does Don confide to Roger that he "doesn't feel bad at all" after having left Betty? Why does he feel "relieved", not panicked? That sure felt more like confession than defense mechanism to me. Being separated from Betty is about truth and shedding of the marriage institution. There was tremendous pressure for appearance sake in the early 1960s to be married, but Don is finding it's not so important for happiness. ("He may be married, but he sure doesn't seem happy," says Rachel) Why does Don make no real move to get back with Betty, instead allowing that to happen merely if he is sucked back in the natural course of things?

So, what is the Carousel about? It shows that Don does legitimately care about Betty. He's spent a lot of his life with her. I believe him when he says he doesn't hate her. He wishes things had been different. Sentiment, however, does not equal desire.

@jackie

Actually, Don's good points "are enough" for me. I am very fond of him. He is the hero of the story, and that term not only implies protagonist to me, but someone I see sympathatically and can root for. The character of Don has worked on me, has been successful as a hero character. I am tense as can be awaiting the fallout from Don's truancy during his California trip, for instance. I feel his embarrassments acutely.

I've never been from the school that you don't judge somebody. That's wishful thinking, at least in my case. But I tend to sum people up, like them, dislike them, or not mind them, and then not judge them after that point. Liking Don, "I don't expect him to be anything than what he is," as I think Peggy said.

For instance, I penned my American ethos essay after Penultimate was aghast at Don's behavior with Adam. Was I aghast at that? Not really. I understood. I happen to be a rugged individualist (at least philosophically speaking) myself. I happen to think Don's "move forward" philosophy is great, perhaps because it furthers his strength as a male. But I have to look at the textual evidence, see what it has meant to Peggy and her child, for instance, and see that the writers may not regard it as rosily as I do. My bias is to give Don a pass, because I am individualistic and quintessentially American in my personality.

I will grant you, in reading over my posts, that my description of how Don embodies the power-mongering of America is among the weaker points. Perhaps that is partially because I am not the best person to represent the downsides of the American ethos, as I am naturally an exponent.

To self indulge or satisfy your curiosity, as the case may be, about my "background": I am 33 and male. Grew up in New York City, more Pete Campbell than Dick Whitman, or even more Pete Campbell than Ken Cosgrove. I now live in a suburb in a different part of the country and quite a ways away from a big city. I have lived in a number of quieter areas than NYC and am, by and large, unsuccessful professionally. I do not think these generic points are possibly sufficient to enable you to make sense of my posts. I do agree that of course my biases and perspective are paramount in what I write, and that what I write is not at all a simple recitation of the truth about Mad Men. But perhaps it is best to learn my perspective in time from what I write rather than trying to fill in the blanks with inevitably incorrect conjecture.

Mad Men is a compelling fiction. I don't know that there is an important reason that it has created a message board habit for you and an infinite number of equally compelling texts have not, but maybe I am not fully appreciating the power of Mad Men. If that 5 out of 14 bit with the rockets really did mean that Don has scored with 5 of 14 women since the show began, then maybe Mad Men is truly a work above mere normal entertainment :).

I am impressed with the caliber of discourse here. My first instinct was to credit everything that everyone says, but then sometimes I become aware that some things people say are just plain wrong, or said without having seen every episode. I don't know if Mad Men could be said to have had a cult of fans at first, but what happens when a writer or philosophy takes on a bigger audience is that the typical admirer becomes less ardent and less true to the essence, and I think we have seen some of that on the message board (although I suppose I don't really post consistently enough to have a right to that opinion). But there still remains a coherent community of English-major types, and I'm glad Mad Men has the mass audience at evidence here to stay on the air for future seasons.

If Don truly still had feelings for Rachel, why was it Betty that he kept thinking about in LA, when he wanted to runaway to LA with Rachel in season 1!? You would think that he went to LA to maybe get a glimpse of a life with Rachel, well turns out, Betty was on his mind, and was everywhere to boot. The blonde in the bar, which Don hallucinated as being her, Joy sounding and acting like Betty in some ways, and duh, of course the children near the end with the divorced Parent. Don is coming to grips that this life he wanted in LA is not really for him. He got a taste of it, and it was sour. He saw the children, and he saw the blonde who resembled Betty. Either this show is throwing us mixed messages about somethiing, but this episode truly made me feel that Don knows that his family and wife adore, him and he is starting to realize the hurt and anger he is causing them. The whole suitcase at the end being dropped off and nobody to answer the door or pick it up, is clearly another sign, that either Betty and the kids have moved on from Don's lies and deciet, or that they simply dont care anymore about him. Either way, he is going to get a huge reality check if he ever goes back to NYC this season or next season. Who knows maybe Betty will be so much stronger than him (mental wise) that if he decides to change, she will be sorry to late, I like being on my own. What if the children start to treat Don like Duck's children treat him. They felt almost scared to be near him, and also there was nothing else to say, but how great their mom's new husband was, and that their dog had to be left with him. Don has everything so good with Betty and the kids, that his deciet and lies are what tearing them apart. Of course he is too stubborn to realize it. I think however he is coming to terms on the man who he should be, and not the man he wants to be. He is going to have to make a sacrifice in order to have what he wants, and to me that is his family.

@Polignac

Rachel has nothing to do with the show this season. Real life got in the way, and Maggie Siff is off on a Fox show. Therefore, she has nothing to do with Draper's thought process this year, either. I certainly never said or implied he went to Los Angeles to find Rachel; if I had said that, it would have been complete gibberish. I don't know exactly what seeing Betty at the bar meant, or what seeing children meant. I agree that seeing those children made him feel bad about what he is doing to his. I think his meeting with the person on the phone will go a ways towards resolving the children's meaning, and what they provoked in him. Part of what he was going through seemed a flashback to his childhood, and quite apart from Betty.

You still did not refute a single thing that I said about Don not seeming to love Betty in a million different places. I think it's a "mixed signals" at best case for those who think Betty is meant for Don. Life is complicated. Don does have a conscience, and his years with Betty have not left him untouched. But I don't see Mad Men as the staid kind of world view that in the end reinforces the original nuclear family just because. I think that would be trite. I see Mad Men as more about finding happiness. Happiness, note, not joy. And Don is coming to terms with the fact that he is not happy with Betty. You can still say he loves her, but if you say that, to me you devalue the term.

@Strongandsilent: Your posts kick ass!

There are *some* posters who tend to romanticize Mad Men. Although there are various women working on this show behind the scenes, no way in hell will they turn this show into some "chick flick" drivel. They are smarter than that!

...Polignac on 10/16/08 @10:08a.m....Although I haven't read the novel, I guess there was a reason Thomas Wolfe titled it "You Can't Go Home Again."

I agree with you that Betty and the family are very much on Don's mind out in CA....(and really, how could they not be)?

Also, agree that Betty's "change" will be into a "stronger," person, because what choice does she have, really, except to grow...? (That is, unless another male steps in to "replace Don" and take care of her) Whatever paths they take, I don't see Betty and Don resuming in the same pattern, house, or maybe even city, as before.

strongandsilent...like with a MM episode, I don't know where to bite first in your posts...so many facets to chew on.

The fact that you grew up in Manhatten (or at least some borough of NYC) in my mind gives weight to your observations right off the bat...so thanks for that "tidbit." (I've sometimes thought that the "dumbest" person in NYC is still pretty clever--that whole "If You Can Make it There..." bias)--at least in a "street-smart" sense.

I don't know why I haven't been motivated to seek out "equally compelling texts" on the web for message-boarding. Perhaps, as you suggested, that fact DOES speak to the "power" of MM.

I have always admired the misson of the "entertainment" industry--from the time of the Greek plays and Shakespeare's Globe Theatre to the "invention" of TV..., I think those with the ability/talent and calling whose work it is to "carry the wearied mind away" for a few hours (and I include novels, operas, symphonies, paintings, etc) truly perfrom a service more valuable and unique than all the doctors, lawyers, business people, etc. combined.

Maybe that's why I was moved to communicate with others who also appreciate a good story, an excellent "show." (Whereas I have no interest in even discussing politics, religion, etc. anymore --let alone incurring eye-strain by viewing the musings of others on those topics). Exception: I did read a few of Ben Stein's articles today .. and recommend him to anyone who wants a good surrogate for expressing rage in understandable format--over our country's new status as one of the "pooer" nations.

Uh-oh, hope I didn't offend your rugged individualism grounded in the American Ethos.... (I'm taking the liberty of going out on a limb with my humor here, realizing I may risk offending).

But, if there are any sites you would suggest to me that are compelling "reads," please do so.

You yourself write very, very well (among others on this site, of course), and I look forward to reading more of your thoughts. (You really, really grabbed me with that idea of issues "taking up space in one's mind...")! And I thought I'd looked at "psych issues" from every angle!

In the meantime, when I am feeling "sharper," I will get back more on point with our MM issues.

Thank you for revealing as much as you did--just enough and not too much. And I agree that the the reading of another's thoughts is revealatory enough, as we seek to peer behind "the painted veil."

as Betty said in season 1 The Wheel to the shrink, Don doesnt know what family is. And she is right. Don thinks of family as he does in the ads he creates. We all know that Don will probably die alone, and miserable. I mean c'mon a guy with that sort of past, and so many lies and secrets is bound to make him miserable in the end. He is going to see everyon around him grow and mature and become stronger, while he stays alone, pitiful, and downright depressed. Nobody is going to be there for him, if he continues his lies and of course we already know that Betty isnt taking anymore of her crap. I was simply stating in my earlier post, that alot of people think that Rachel Menken was the true love of his life, and thus he should be with her. I really dont think she is the love of his life, and frankly my dears, I think that ship has sailed. I mean think about it, she was about to drop everything to go with Don to LA, what if LA turned out to be exactly like it is with Don right now. To be honest, Rachel would have left his sorry ass there, because Don wouldnt be able to handle himself with all those women there. And also what surprised me most of this episode is that he went to LA, somewhere he wanted to runaway with Rachel, and instead of thinking about her, which many thought that he would, he thought of Betty. Betty his wife. Betty the one who has been faithful to him, loved him, bore him two children, and who still loves him. I am coming to grips that yes, there may not be a happily ever after for them. Betty will mature, and leave Don behind to wallow in his self pity, depressed life. And Don will die alone, miserable because of his lies and secrets. Its just common knowledge. Don doesnt know what family is. He basically made his brother committ suicide, and I am sure if he stayed with Betty, god knows what she would have done to herself or to the kids. What I am trying to say is that Don doesnt know love. He may have felt with Betty and Rachel for a time, but he doesnt know it. He cant feel it. And dont give me this shit that he felt with Rachel, because Don couldnt even tell her THAT HE LOVED HER, just like he couldnt tell Betty. Its out there, Don is a manwhore, he will never have it good like he has it with Betty. You mean to tell me that he wouldnt cheat on Rachel if they were together. LOL....Don would have screwed the maid probably before the wedding night!!!

This is an excellent strain. Thanks, strongandsilent, for getting the ball rolling -- you are a conscientious writer/thinker, I'm surprised to hear you say you are 'by and large, unsuccessful professionally.' A keen intellect should be able to find a good professional home.

One point on 'rugged individualism' and the self-made man that is the American ideal -- I like to think of myself in this mold as well. But there is a price the self-made man pays, and most real and fictitious American characters have to grapple with this (Clyde Griffits, Jay Gatsby, etc.) I think Tennessee Williams once said, when talking about 'Glass Menagerie,' that an individual gesture toward freedom/self-creation involves a simultaneous act of abandonment/desertion or some such. (He said it better and with fewer words, I'm sure.) But this is the conundrum of the self-made man, and Don clearly grapples with it. Recall that in the Ep. 10 bar scene with Roger when he espouses his 'move forward' philosophy, he adds the caveat 'once you figure out what that means.' I believe Don's dilemma at its core is a struggle with this notion -- reconciling his philosophy/the American ideal with the damage it sometimes causes. 'The past isn't dead. It isn't even past.' Despite the frequent references to Randian philosophy on the show, I imagine Matt Weiner doesn't subscribe to this view. (Please note I'm not correcting your salient views, just adding my own two cents.)

Thirteen, sixty8fury, Ritt and so on, nice insights. I've meant to compliment you folks before, so I'll just throw one to the whole group.

Polignac, I and others before me have suggested that Don may well have killed his dad. I'm not a proponent of many of the MM conspiracy theories, but for some reason I subscribe to the patricide one. You're not alone on that count!

Re: Don and 'love,' anybody as fractured as Don is going to have a hard time with love. I think he loves Betty in a way, but she is too much a part of the 'construct' of his self-creation, Don Draper. I don't think he views her as a real person, and certainly not as an equal, but rather an extension of his self-made man. He did connect with Rachel, I believe, in a way that was deeper than his relationship with Betty.

Re: sailors - there are LOTS of Naval installations in Cali which are still operational and the Sub Bases (Coronado) most secure, typically. However, the presence of two enlisted guys wearing their crackerjacks is not, in and of itself, apropos of anything. The mole theory holds as much water as other hypotheses on the board but the blonde from the dealership is NOT the person Dick/Don called. As another poster upthread mentioned, SHE was seeking Don, not Dick. I'm beginning to think of Kevin Costner in 'No Way Out'. Where's my coffee and aspirin???

Wow, this thread has me completely blown away! I think @strongandsilent is right on the money.

A couple of thoughts:
I've been thinking a lot about "The Wheel" and how Don got misty and sentimental. He is an AD man and thinks life is what he creates it to be. He told Rachel that "love" is something an ad man created to make people feel good. I think he saw the slides of his life and somehow, because it now looked like an "ad" he was either wistful because that's not how it was in real life, or he realized he could MAKE his home life be whatever he wanted it to be - that he had a choice. We don't know exactly what followed in the next 16 months, but Don did trod the straight and narrow and become the perfect "home for dinner' husband and dad.

As far as the blonde at the car dealership, I agree that she ratted him out or at least had the power to. I firmly believe she will reappear at some point. Too strong a clue to be left behind.

I miss the days of MM airing on Thursday nights. I could be tired at work on Fridays from lack of sleep but this Sunday night/dragging on Monday thing is tough.

Maybe not pertinent to anyone's comments, I don't think Don will end up miserable or alone. I just don't see Don as a "victim/self-pitier"; lost and overwhelmed at times, but a fighter to the end. I admire the fact that regardless of the circumstances, Don is always driven to either find a way around it or through it, but he never stands still for too long waiting to be run over.

As for Don's love life, I do feel that Rachel was his first real experience of love, and that it's taken him quite a while to let go of it. Now, though he must have had some attraction/feeling for Betty to have married her (though I do think she was part of his perfect pictures), and the shine has worn off, as Betty is changing and growing (and seemingly showing the assertiveness and guts of some of Don's other women), I think he is falling for Betty, and possibly falling in love with the "changed" Betty.

.....Wow - how did I miss this great thread..... I seem to be rather lost this week....someone throw me a life preserver!!

Hey oldfashioned - didn't know you were going to be local this week! Bummer!

......The thing that bugs me about the preview shot is that he's on a very high overlook, facing west. Coronado has no view like that.

I don't know Long Beach that well, but I searched for any information or photos of a high ocean overlook...anyone from Long Beach?

Draper wasn't in the Navy, so his buddy wouldn't be at a Naval ship yard, I don't think.

I'm really beginning to see how Matt likes to mess with us via the previews, and so now I'm even thinking the sailors are completely random, meant to send us off in a bunch of erroneous directions.

I also like that the previews tease us, and we expect something and it turns out totally different. I know alot of people thought that this coming episode that Betty is telling off Bobbie Barrett or someother chick, but I think its going ot be Sarabeth whom probably screwed Arthut and thus prove Betty right, that everyone cheats just for the sure pleasure of it.

I don't think we've met the person that Don/Dick Whitman is meeting in "The Mountain King". I think it'll be a completely new character.

Dick Whitman had to have known quite a few people (besides Army buddies) even before in went to Korea (which puts him in his early 20's if his birth year is 1926 - rather old to be enlisting). Meaning up until his enlistment, he had a few years of adulthood as a civilian as Dick Whitman. And, I think, obviously not on the farm - he probably left there at 18. Easily, anyone knowing him as Dick Whitman at the time he enlisted in the Army for the Korean War, would've lot track of him, but he would've remembered them. Or contacted them after Korea.

Which leads me to another supposition. I still think Dick Whitman is from the Midwest, not the Eastern seaboard. I think when you enlisted (or were drafted) out of the Midwest, you were posted in training camps on the west coast. My own father enlisted in the Marines for WWII out of Minnesota, and was posted to training camp in San Diego. It might have been a woman or other friend that he met during his training camp days. How else would he "know" anyone in California?

Ritt,
It was much easier to open a business back in the 1950s. Some cities required only a minimal fee for a license - some required no money, just that you file. It wasn't like nowadays. All he needed to do was buy a few cars to start out with. He could easily have done that with his mustering out money from the military.