I think Duck's had a petit mal seizure. See how unresponsive he was and how he became incontinent? To my knowledge, that's what happens during a petit mal seizure.
Who is the boxer? Floyd? (I don't follow the sport...). Why was Jimmy there? Just poetic license? I love hearing Freddy's history from WWII. Makes me appreciate him a lot more.
I like the parallel - Dick pissed his pants and got a new identity. Freddy did the same and lost his.
I am an R.N. that worked on the Red Cross Blood Mobile for many years. Don is right, many people [not just women] faint.Sometimes they go out completly and do become incontinent.That happens while they are giving blood not later so not sure what the whole thing with Freddie was about but I assume he gave blood.
must correct above comment, a person can still pass out later and become incontinent, but not in the situation Freddy was in. I watch this during central time and didn't get started till late so I have some catching up to do. I apologize if everything I just said makes no scenes later. Boy is Betty ever depressed. Classic.
Whoa! I was dumbfounded and completely entranced by this week's episode.
I loved the look on Don's face when he got the shopping bag of shirts from Menkin's.
One question: When Mona shouted, "you can talk to Margaret!" Whom did she mean? I had the idea that Jane moved her way up horizontally to Roger's heart...
I guess now we know why Jane was dressed so conservatively...Now that she hooked into Roger, she only shows skin for him. Speak about 'hide in plain sight'.
I thought it was interesting that the African-American elevator worker - the guy they usually say one word to then ignore and never treat as a peer - was the one to say "some people hide in plain sight."
I love how the actress who plays Carla portrays her conflict of having to be a doting housewife, all the while silently acknowledging that there is chaos in the Draper household. I remember a few episodes back when Don offers her a ride home, she wants no part of the Draper's drama to come to her private life. I totally understand that one, sister!
Meanwhile, I don't really get why Bets would skip out on the lunch date. Had she wanted to give her friend the pleasure of seeking excitement through an affair? Why is she staying at home then?
Who is Margaret? I thought that was Roger's daughter's name. What did Mona mean by that. Roger in love with his secretary, Jane? I thought that was Don's secretary.
Martini Up: you are so right. pete does look like pee wee herman. i have thought all this time he looked like someone but couldnt put my finger on it. so, did don fire jane because roger seemed to get friendly with her after mona left by putting his hand on her shoulder or because she didnt stop mona from barging in his office? do you think that the news about marilyn monroe's suicide is leading into freddy committing suicide? he did say if he doesnt go to work on monday, what am i? just a thought.
I love love love watching Betty defrost the fridge using a bowl of hot water, and then cutting drawer liner papers--- reminds me of my childhood, watching my mother do her kitchen upkeep.
I imagine Margaret will be Mona's lawyer. As to Jane...I mentioned in a previous post about Joan and Jane that being the boss's girlfriend is a powerful position in an office, as least in the offices I have worked in. I can't imagine however that the current story arc that has Joan on her way out won't turn somehow. She is too important a character in my view. I love the professional bond between Don and Peggy.
Lots of lounging on couches going on with this episode: Joan on Roger's couch, Betty on her couch when the doorbell rang, Pete on his couch, and even ol' Don on his. Gotta get a couch for my office....
Clearly, Don did not want to sully his hands with a homewrecker like Jane. Remember that he's trying to act like he didn't have an affair, even when confronted about it playfully by both Roger (this ep.) and also Bobbie (two eps. back).
Betty is living vicariously through Sara Beth. She's not ready to have an affair just yet, but she's taking baby steps by setting her friend up for one.
I liked how she took the phone off the hook while they prepared their cookie dough lunch. Nice touch.
Isn't Margaret Roger's daughter? And those shirts from Menkins...Do you think Rachel helped picked them out knowing they were for Don? Or did she just give a store discount for old times? LOL
I think Mona just meant to say to Roger that he can tell their daughter, Margaret, that he is leaving Mona after 25 years of marriage for a girl about Margaret's own age. (Sorry if the grammar was off there.)
Roger is schtupping Jane. Don wants her off the desk because he doesn't want to be part of it. Jane got emotional because it all came out right in front of everyone.
Remember, Joan told her she knew exactly what was going on after Jane went to Roger and kept her job.
Freddie is moving into an advanced stage of alcoholism.
Like they say, "Denial is a river in Egypt."
And it looks like Betty is hitting the wine bottle a bit more, now, as well.
Booze, the great escape. Until it bites you in the butt.
Why did Jane buy Don some shirts? At first I thought she might be flirting with him. But now, after learning she is having an affair with Sterling, I don't think that.
The episode is soooo good; January Jones is a fantastic actress because she has allowed me to totally despise the character of Bette as a mother, wonder about her as a woman, and feel a bit sorry for her a wife.
Re: her inability to nurture her children...every time i see bette interact with her children i think about the lyric in the Janis Ian song of the late 60s.."I leaving home after living alone for so many years"...she is the typical privileged suburban housewife who can afford to indulge her psychic pain by sleeping late and ignoring/berating her children. I can just see Sally and Bobbie being disaffected teens who choose to run to Haight-Asbury and tune in, turn on and drop out with lots of drugs and sex cause mom didn't have the time to put the world in perspective for them when they were much younger and made them pay for the indiscretions of their dad....
.... Oh Freddie Rumson....that scene in his office was a classic...he has been messing up for quite a while and this is the straw yada yada yada...I am sure that he was the best years ago but he has allowed alochol to ruin all his best instincts and talents...great that Don was so loyal..which brings me to another point. While we all know that Don is a big 'ho" I also know that Don an amazing set of principals that don't ever seem to be reflected in the general population of S/C...he is extremely supportive of his creative team and especially Peggy (support he gave her when she was in the hospital and the opportuity he created for her when he and Rumson noticed her talent as a copy writer and even slapping Roger when he as incanting another woman's name after his heart attack...his attempts to connect solidly with his children and even his support of Bette when she was quite less than a helpmate last season...I also remember a small scene in the elevator when he made those young men change their tone and conversation and take off their hats....
.....it also looks as if Pete is getting on Peggy's last nerve with his selfish egotism and that finally, we will get to see Carla and the elevator operator as people rather than props in another world...
...all i have to say for now
I LOVE Jane's dress with the colored squares in comparison to Betty's dress with the colored polka-dots. Jane's affair with the boss is bold, point-blank, cut and dried and ends up out in the open. Don's affairs are mixed up, a myriad of women and meeting places and are well hidden from his child-like wife. These visual expressions couldn't be any better.
Roger is having an affair - and thinks he's in love - with Jane. Mona's comment about Margaret meant that Roger will have to tell their daughter what is going on - she (Mona) is not going to be the dutiful enabler anymore - that Roger is going to have to be a grown up and and take responsibility for this one with his little girl (now 18?) who thinks he's perfect.
Don is firing Jane because OBVIOUSLY Jane and Roger were talking about him.
I agree with Born in 1960 - Yes, Betty is living through her friend (by setting her up to have an affair) because she isn't ready to have one herself, yet.
And how about when Don said "Good Night" to Freddie. And Freddie answered, "Good Bye". I think that says a lot. Freddie knows he won't be coming back.
Well, I am new to the whole Mad Men craze, and I have to say that I am officially in love with this show now. I tried to catch up with the marathon that they showed last week. So, I will be watching it from now on. And I liked this week's episode, especially when Don punched that Barrett guy in the face at the underground casino.
GuySmiley... yes! I love the look on Sal's face when he got the FULL glass of booze from Freddie.
NancyStowOH... awesome connection between Don and Freddie pissing themselves. Although, you might say that Dick lost his identity, too. It seems to me that he doesn't know who he is or what he wants.
How great was it that Jane bought the shirts for Don from Menkens?
Based on the clip they showed last week, I was certain that Peggy was mad at Pete for spilling the beans about their affair. I guess we'll just have to wait for that to happen.
I did not expect Roger to leave his wife for Jane! I believe that Don is genuinely disgusted by Roger's behavior and this will help to to figure out what is important and to do whatever he has to do to get back in Betty's good graces.
Another great episode. I don't know what I'm going to do at the end of the season. I'll be in serious withdrawal.
Why did Pete refer to Freddie as "those people." Is Freddie from a different class? I can't stand Pete. Freddie's too lovely to be working in that cutthroat environment.
I agree with the commentary on Don's character. He's got certain values I love and then I'm disgusted with his player ways...hard to judge him though. He's human. He comes off as a hard ass but he's good at heart, whereas Peggy comes off as the girl-next-door sweetheart but has a cold, almost diabolical heart. I kind of wish Don divorced her and followed his heart. He seems a free spirit who is trapped in a life he created and now despises.
Wonder if Duck ever wet himself before a client presentation during his days of drinking? I'm sure he had his share of blackouts. Not an ounce of compassion for Freddy (though I realize they have never been the best of friends). My bet is that he was so disgusted by his own past behavior that he's unleashing it all on Freddy.
Nice touch with Roger discussing Freddy's issues with drinking while pouring drinks....
mhcgrl - I, too, thought from the clip that Peggy was screaming at Pete because he blabbed about the baby. BUT... I have learned that the clips are never that obvious. Peggy will never confront Pete about the baby because she's in denial about it. Remember what Don said to her in the looney bin - "This never happened." (The Dick Whitman/Don Draper mantra - repeat after me - ohhhmmm)
From the very first episode last year Mad Men had been my favorite show. But I find one thing about it to be really annoying. Now is it just me, or is about 30 percent of what the characters say totally undecipherable? For a show with so many great production values the sound kinda sucks! (And what's with those dark offices in broad daylight?) It just always seems to be really difficult to understand what people are saying. So much so that this season I've taken to watching the encore with the closed captioning on just so I can find out what the hell was said. Anyone agree with me?
Oh yes, someone commented about Janes dress with the huge color blocks. Love it!
But I really love Peggy's dress for next week's episode. I saw it on the Mad Men Photo Shoot Photos on the AMC website. Black and White and looks great on Peggy! Love it!
Did someone mention Hazelton in this episode? I didn't know it was around that long.
This reminds me exactly of my in-laws. Dad in sales with a national aviation company right after WWII. Three martini lunches with clients, all white males, wives didn't work. Mom home with a houseful of kids and eventually turned to booze to deal with the emptiness of her life. He died at 62, she is still a drunk at 83. They were the perfect Don and Betty in their youth.
A lot of men, post WWII, judged other men by what they did in the war. Roger notes that at first he thought Freddie was in the Signal Corps, meaning not in combat. Then he learned that was only in the last six months of his service and before that he had performed some heroics in combat. 1945, to these guys, is 17 years ago. Like 1991 is to us. Doesn't seem very long ago to me.
Peggy comes off as the girl-next-door sweetheart but has a cold, almost diabolical heart.
Are you kidding? Peggy hasn't got a cold heart at all!
Pete is from the "upper crust". Although he sleeps around on his wife, alcoholics were considered "less manly" because they couldn't control themselves.
And yes, Marilyn's death was horrible to many people.
wow i cant believe the accuracy of the props! Betts had little "Salamander" stirring cookie dough in the exact same bowl as my mother used in the early sixties!!
NancyStowOH - I should know better by now that Mad Men is NEVER obvious! That's what makes it so great.
I was just thinking about what Roger said to Don. Something like, "Your loyalty is becoming a liability." As people have noted before... he's another example of Don's loyalty in all things business but lack of loyalty in his personal life.
As for the "dark lighting and indecipherable language" - the show is filmed that way on purpose. And the sound is very low. I have to crank it up during the episodes and turn it down during the commercials.
Now later into the episode, guess Freddie hadn't given blood . Can't figure this one out. Surprised that Betty was able to get out of bed and go to the stable. Guy Smiley, haven't gotten there yet but is it possible Betty was too depressed? I am discovering it is not good to try to guess what's coming up. I've been wrong on most. Obviously Freddy wet because he drank too much. So much for my R.N. expertise.They are firing Freddy because he drinks too much and they take him to a bar and get him drunk.Good friends
By the way, you gotta love the little details on this show. I loved how the girls in the office could hear the urine squishing around in his shoe when Freddy walked out of the office. (THAT I could actually hear.)
I found it odd when Roger said, "Need to call the Misses?" Since when did he care? NEVER. Obviously (I realize now) he already knew because of some pillow talk with skanky Jane on Jane St.
Jimmy hitting the floor was so satisfying. What a jerk. The Freddy situation was so sad, though. Remember when he played Mozart on his zipper? That was so inappropriate that you had wonder how much longer he would be there.
Mona told Don to talk to Margaret because Roger was able to explain himself more fully to his daughter than his wife. Roger told Margaret he decided to leave Mona because of his conversation with Don the night before. Margaret told Mona. That's how Mona found out about the conversation between Roger and Don. Mona wrongfully assumed Don talked Roger into leaving. She has no idea about Don and Betty.
Jane bought the shirts for Roger because she told Roger about Don's marital problems. Roger clued Jane in on Don's need for more shirts. Jane realized she received a secondary gain from buying shirts for Don. She ingratiated herself to him, it was a little flirty and she could give Roger a little thrill out of it, too.
I had a couple of thoughts about tonight's episode.
Marilyn Monroe was supposed to have committed suicide.
I think Freddy is heading that way. He kept saying to Don "What am I going to do?" Work has been his life...
Don said goodnight and Freddy said goodbye.
Maybe the common thread in episode 9 is either going forward, or, ending it all.
Ahh the blood drive is to save lives and the guys are joking about Freddie's accident and he is losing his working life.
Sal wouldn't be able to give blood now days if he indeed has engaged in homosexual activity. Nor Don most likely if they answer the pre-screening questionaire truthfully.
Mcmere - yes, he did say she was profoundly sad. And now, when she truly is profoundly sad, he doesn't notice it a bit. That's what I meant about it being ironic. :-)
GuySmiley - I think Betty skipped out on the lunch date because she wants her friend to be happy and have a little fun. Betty is clearly not interested in having an affair with the young man. She likes the attention though. Remember when they met at the club and he said that he would leave her alone and he was sorry of pursuing her? She quickly said, "Wait... let's be friends." I think if it were the right guy... someone she was really passionate about, she would totally have an affair.
I just realized that when Mona walked into Don's office, her dress looked black...like she was in mourning. It wasn't until she walked back out under the fluorescent lights that you see it's a deep navy. Nice one, costume department!
Don is such a perfect performance of a person incapable of feeling. He can't feel love, hate, anything. He is loyal but that is something he has witnessed and knows that society views as admirable. He tries to feel. He just can't. He wasn't born with it and it wasn't nurtured in him. He found a woman just like him. Hard to believe she knows so little about him, but she doesn't want to reveal too much either, so they are a perfect fit. Problem is, humans are made to connect, and without connections they eventually die. They die little by little, from the inside out. It isn't obvious at first and then as the years go by, it is impossible to dismiss or hide.
That's when the lid pops off, reality spills out everywhere and on everyone, affecting all those they are suppose to love and those that have loved them, leaving everyone wondering, "what the hell is happening?".
I'm hoping Pete gets his *ss kicked by Don. Don's very shrewd. I thought his conversation with Peggy where he tells her she'll be copywriting was a good demonstration of this. He questioned her in a way that helped him understand her character better. While he didn't show it, he would appreciate her loyalty to Freddie and the way she would have handled the situation which would have been to say nothing at all. It's good.
I liked it better when Roger was funny. He's going to have another coronary with Jane the gold digger.
Don actually looked and acted like a gentleman tonight. I loved it when he punched Jimmy, but I loved it more when he stood up for Freddie.
Someone posted that Margaret, Roger's daughter, was seeing a psychiatrist - she saw one when she was a teenager for awhile. With Roger for a father, why wouldn't she?
I loved, loved, loved, the scene with Betty in the kitchen defrosting the fridge and cutting the contact paper. Also, Sally stirring the cake mix - did that as a kid myself, along with mashing potatoes by hand.
Anyone have ideas on why Betty set up Arthur and Sarah Beth? I'm not sure if was being a friend to Sarah Beth or something else.
I predict Don will be back in the house next episode.
Pete's blue pajamas--I was young at the time of MM's death, but I don't remember anyone crying about it. People were shocked, but I didn't see anyone as emotional as it was portrayed. Is it just me, or was Don D particularly touching and vunerable in tonight's episode? I love him....
I think Betty was setting up her "friend" to get back at her for her comments about perfect Don.
There was something devious about the lunch date, did you notice that Betts took the phone off the hook so that Sara could not call to see where she was?
Freddie definitely has a medical condition - I would a seizure disorder because he seemed to be out of it when he was urinating his trousers and had a momentary lapse of memory just before he fell asleep.
I'll miss Freddie. It will be interesting to see how the staff turn on Pete now that they know he told on Freddie.
They all seem like alcoholics-some just seem to control it better than others. Each office has it's own bar and they have a closet full of the stuff. Anytime anyone goes to someone else's office, they are offered a drink. My parents had cocktails every day when my dad came home and now I wonder if he drank at work, too? Maybe the show is exaggerating it a bit because of the Mad Ave. theme-I hope so. Otherwise, seems like a whole generation of men would be plagued with cirrhosis of the liver!
NancyStowOH - Yes! Let's all say "Milwaukee" as our password to get into the convention! LOL.
And yes, someone mentioned Don was actually a gentleman in tonight's episode. I agree - with the whole sticking up for Freddie thing. Very much a man of loyalty.
I don't know if Freddie is going to kill himself but someone important to Roger is going to die. Joan's comment, something like "Someday you'll lose someone you really care about. Then you'll know." is a pretty good indication.
People in the 1960s did not routinely share their feelings. Don and Betty's marriage is very indicative of a lot of marriages at that time. Don, handsome and seemingly successful, Betty, groomed for "happily ever after". A lot of wheels came off marriages when the 1970s rolled around. That's also why Betty Friedans book was like a bomb back then to women.
Watch the preview for next week. Don berates Pete for not bothering to read Peggy's notes for the next meeting. Don hates Pete, and is looking for a way to get back at him.
Alcoholism was very big in the 1950s and 60s too - because no one talked about their feelings. So if Freddie had PSTS, he would have drank, not talked. But I doubt he'll commit suicide.
OMG - Don is actually JEALOUS of Freddy - he told Freddy it's a "fresh start." He told Freddy there were a lot of towns he could go to. I think if Don got a 6 month leave of absence he'd be long gone.
I don't think Betty was being under-handed by setting up Arthur to be at the lunch date. I think she was just helping her friend out. Hoping that at least her friend could have some enjoyment out of life - whereas Betty isn't enjoying life at the present time.
I was interested in the conversation between Roger and Joan when he found her in his office.
He asked her if she was all broken up about Marilyn's death too? Then he said "you're not like her" after giving her the once over.
She made that comment about how he will understand when he loses someone close to him. Hmm....
Something is going on with Joan.
i luv the show!!! i love don he is so cute!! i was like who is margaret and i think it is great that peggy got the job but feel for her cause she is in a mans world she is so good. and i also loved the dress that jane was wearing. so don let jane go cause she was talkining about his private life to stearling??or is she the onethat stearling is having an affair with??
Ok, just to throw some fuel on the fire, or to light one...I notice that Don's adulterous ways are pretty much universally condemned here. And some ladies in this forum have mentioned being the victim of similar behavior...but the discussion of whether or not Betty will have an affair has a much less moralistic tone. Is it because she was betrayed first? Or because she is a woman? Also, on the subject of the attractiveness of the alpha male, this article in today's London Times was interesting: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article4837668.ece
Do you think Margaret ( who is Roger and Mona's daughter ) will commit suicide because her parents have split up? Or is Roger going to "lose her" because she will be totally disgusted with her father, especially at a time when she is supposed to be getting married? Or was Joan talking about him losing Mona (thru divorce) who he truly loves a whole lot more than he thinks?
Did anyone else think Mona was coming in to help Don and possibly ask him to move in with them instead of staying at a hotel? Not saying that I thought that or anything...
I think MM was the Princess Diana of her day. She was like a fairy tale to some people and then she died too young. Women identified with her because they thought she was misunderstood. She couldn't find happiness even though she was beautiful. Some people still collect stuff about her-similar to Elvis. To each his own.
(1) Nancy StowOh - YES! The pissing-pants thing was a great catch!
(2) GUY SMILEY - YES! Loved the look on Sal's face with the glass, too!
(3) PETE's BP - loved the "hide in plain sight" line too.
(3) LUCKY STRIKE - the voices are a bit subdued, but I think it's just that we're used to the shoutiness of other shows. I actually love how it draws you in; this show is just so crazy subtle, I love it all! I just turn it up a little & enjoy it, then I do the same thing as you w/the rebroadcast, w/the CC on on. (I had to do the same w/Sopranos.) The lighting, too, is part of what I think makes it so rich & so real. Have you noticed how on most network shows, every single lamp is turned on in the house? I think this is much more real, and more movie-like.
Also, I love the hints of This Day in History ... now we know it's August 5, 1962. I can't wait 'til next season with November 22, 1963.
And Betty taking the phone off the hook, Don calling Sally "Salamander", everyone taking to the couch ... I love it, I love it ALL !!
So...do you think everyone will start watching Madmen because of the movie Revolutionary Road or will they go to see the movie because they like Madmen? It looks like a wonderful movie..
Mcmere, IMHO - I think we could all forgive Betty for cheating because she's been cheated on first, and "of course" she'll be doing it because she's hurt.
midcenturymod,
They aren't exaggerating it at all. They had liquor everywhere not just for themselves but for clients as well. Back at that time, many men died of heart attacks in their 30s and 40s, didn't live long enough to die from liver disease. Alcohol and smoking destroy the circulatory system, too, not just the liver.
O.K. I promise I will never try to watch the show and blog at the same time again. I missed so many things that would have explained the crap I was blogging about, and trying to guess ahead of time.It made me feel like an idiot. I APOLOGIZE TO ALL.
NancyStowOH, I didn't think Roger told Jane about Don. I first thought Jane bought the shirts for Don to get on his better side & like her.Not to mention, now that it is definitely confirmed of Roger & her being together secretly...Jane probably wants to be treated like she's already Roger's "wife". (Remember aside from work he has never fallen for her "revealing" assets.When Don stated about "It's personal", I think she's the one telling Roger the lowdown.) I had a boss who cheated on his wife with his young assistant. When he divorced & went around his old haunts with her, basically all his friends ostracized her at all their gatherings.
Lucky-You just have to crank up the volume. Don's deep voice is hard to understand otherwise. He's the only one I have a hard time understanding. The darkness is intentional, I think.
I was a little disappointed in tonight's episode only because of some postings here from people who had a sneak-peek by accident. Don't get me wrong it was good but I thought something HUGE was going to happen. Why is Roger using Don as the catalyst to ending his marriage??? What happened to the divorcee' who lived in the neighborhood with the odd little boy? Looking back at season 1 with Don and the bohemian gal (forgot name), she seemed to be quite a "steady" for Don. Now he is Mr. Perfect Husband??
No condemnation from this woman on Don's acting the nympho! I liked it better last season because he was bedding Ravishing Rachel at one point! And I like it this season because of Bobbie! Hell, all 3 of his side ladies were sexy, fun and powerful! They sure were a hell of a lot more entertaining than that sad sack he married!
Oh, how wonderful it was Don decking that short, unfunny bastard! Fantastic!!
OK. I am officially a Maddict. I am staying up way too late! My baby is likely to wake up at the crack of dawn tomorrow (today) and I have to go to work tomorrow. Yet I feel compelled to read the posts and check out the preview for next week's show!
Speaking of the preview... the title intrigues me: The Inheritance. Who is inheriting what? Any ideas? It could be that Pete is inheriting some bad karma (finally).
Hi zabadu! I don't remember that Joan knew about Jane and Roger seeing each other. To tell you the truth, I thought his last fling was with the call girl last episode.
Oh, I think Revolutionary Road can count on ALL Maddicts to be lined up! Especially since it's not coming out until December, and (sniff) we'll all be suffering from a 2-month-long withdrawal (or should we say "drying out"?). What perfect placement for this movie trailer. It's almost as if Joan Holloway suggested it ....
Interesting parallel - Don encouraged Roger to leave Mona and move on (albeit somewhat unwittingly) and Betty set up her friend to have an affair with Arthur (purposefully).
I'm more than a bit surprised to see this streak of malice from Betty. We've seen her make racist comments and treat her children like furniture, but those behaviors can be attributed to ignorance and self-centeredness. Now she's going out of her (our) comfort zone and taking pains to screw up the relationships of others. Or is it that we are starting to get more of a glimpse of the real Betty? One who can sabotage a friends engagement while baking cookies with the kids. They made Don out to be a real stand-up guy in this episode. I can almost understand how he has a hard time feeling intimate with her.
On preview: Joan told Roger he'd lose someone he really cares about, but when she dumped him after the first coronary, she said "you love her." He's lost both Joan and Mona now. I wonder if he's even capable of caring about people. He's a cad - I can't wait for more of his backstory.
chopin47-Glad my dad lived in good health to an old age then. My parents and their friends did seem to have a lot of cocktails-I was fascinated with it all just like Sally and Bobby.
Nope, Don was trying to talk himself into that. I don't think he figured Roger for anything but a guy like himself. "We're in this together" from Roger was saying "well, you split with your wife, so I guess I could split with mine".
OK... next week's show: "The Inheritance" has made a Jonatha Brooke song pop in my head... Inconsolable. I've included the lyrics below. I think it works in so many ways, but especially "And you will find your inheritance is the silence that's grown/It is the seed that you've sown."
Inconsolable by Jonatha Brookes
I never knew what enough was
Until I'd had more than my share
Then I let the darkness in
It was then I lost the dare
It was then I lost the day
There will be no prayers on your return
And there will be no party thrown
And you will find your inheritance
Is the silence that's grown
It is the seed that you've sown
'Cause you were the one sure thing
The one sure thing
Maybe I'm not crazy, just inconsolable
Inconsolable
There is no mystery to be revealed
And so we tell the truth and then run
I love you because I love you
And I did think that you were the one
But now I see who you've become
'Cause you were the one sure thing
The one sure thing
Maybe I'm not crazy, just inconsolable
Inconsolable
Two issues really stand out in this episode. The first is Betty's continued downward spiral into her depression. There is quite a bit of chatter about how bad a parent Betty is on these blogs. I'm guessing none of these bloggers has suffered depression while trying to raise children. At this stage she has very little to give to anyone else, and it will be several decades before any anti-depressants will be available to her (the alcohol can only provide a temporary numbness).
Her emptiness is only exacerbated by the other issue highlighted in this episode which is Don's maddening ability to live in such an utter state of denial. How can Betty even begin to deal with his affairs if Don won't (or can't )even admit to himself he's had them. His comment about not feeling bad at all when talking to Roger is very telling. Same as when he tells Betty about her promotion while barely mentioning Freddy's departure. This denial provides the distance Don needs to survive--a coping mechanism--but it will always put some distance between him and anyone with whom he attempts to seek intimacy.
Did anyone get the book that Bette was reading "Ship of Fools" (Don/Bette/Freddy/Roger/Jane/Peggy/Pete) which was all about a group of misfits sailing together on a luxury liner? Nice parallel.
I am always amazed at how quickly this thread fills up! By the time I hit the refresh button, there are at least 10 more comments! We must be nuts, or is it NUTZ??
Loved the weasel getting sucker punched by Don!
SAB? But, yes, Don and Rachel were the best couple! Don and Bobbie was awful.
Betty is too cold to have an affair. Too messy for her. I am jealous of her housecoat though-wish those would come back. They look comfy and easy to throw on.
MartiniUp: You have it pegged. This was the moodset of marriages in the 1960s. Betty knows that if she breaks up the marriage, she has no identity - Identies didn't start developing in women routinely until the late 1970s. Don is a man's man in a mans world. Society thought nothing of a man cheating on his wife. Only other wives found it shocking.
Don is, to use a word popular at that time, an existentialist. He thinks life is just one damn thing after another and then you die. "It has a bad ending," as he said tonight. He has vented this point of view several times throughout the series. Life has no particular meaning and you just keep "moving forward." I don't think he was urging Roger to leave Mona or do anything else. He was simply expressing his own view of existence, in which we just keep putting one foot in front of the other. In Don's worldview, we all yearn for something to counteract the emptiness of existence. It is this mournful view of reality that makes Don so insightful when it comes to human psychology and so brilliant in his creative work: "You know what advertising is about? It's about happiness."
All these folks on the internets, feeling pity for SAB, how ya like them apples? Seeing her nasty, manipulative side! I've always contended she was a malicious "B" and now my insights have been validated!!!!! She deserved to have Don cheat on her all the times he climbed into bed with other ladies!
What excuses are there now for her nasty behavior? She deserved every once of that nickname I gave her--S.A.B.!
I don't think Don is principled so much as he puts a lot of emphasis on appearance - banal things like manners and decorum. He's horrified at Roger's behavior because it's unseemly. He doesn't want to talk about him and Betty for the same reason. He corrected the behavior of the young men in the elevator because it was not polite. He approves of Peggy for having professional decorum. He punched Jimmy for ruining his marriage, but not because he misses Betty or loves her, but because it ruined his perfect-life image. Don has no feelings.
I disliked Jimmy when we first met him, but he grew on me. I don't think he told Betty about Don's affair wanting to upset her. He is in some ways as isolated and invisible in his marriage as she is in hers and he wanted to commiserate with someone in the same position as his - and of course, have his revenge on Don.
Pete had become more sympathetic for a few episodes (I think it started when he punched Ken for making fun of Peggy's weight gain), when they were playing into his character's depth and motivations (spurned his family's wealth to make it on his own) but he's back to being a smarmy impetuous child again, I see.
Martini Up - thanks for the compassion. Doing anything effectively when in the grips of depression is impossible. At least Carla is there and her kids are being cared for. I also think we're getting a glimpse into how Betty was raised - we can't help but parent the same way we were parented - it's what we know.
No one has commented on the "Archibald Whitman" comment. Interesting that he pulled two names out of his hat - Tilden Katz and then his dad.
Someone else posted about how it's hard to understand the dialogue and about the lighting.....I just took the quiz for this Ep. and the only question I missed was the title of the book Betty was reading because it was so dang dark!!! GRRRRR.......!!
@60's Child: I'm convinced that the Mad Men writers are torturing me with the Menken's bag and mentioning Tilden just to get on my last nerve! They know how much I miss Rachel this season! *boo hoo*
Clarification - I said that Don unwittingly was encouraging Roger to leave. He didn't intend his words to be used as encouragement. Betty knew exactly what she was doing. Roger was already 8 toes out the door and needed someone else to blame for it. What a weasal - telling Mona that it was all because of what Don had said. Classic addictive behavior - never his own fault!
Contrast Mona vs. Betty - Mona actually blames Don for a decision that Roger made. C'mon! Roger did what he wanted to do! Betty wouldn't go blame someone for encouraging Don to do it. She has been incredibly strong in standing up to Don and not letting him off the hook for what he's doing. Don honestly doesn't get it.
I don't know who's worse - Don for not getting it or Roger for trying to blame it on someone else. End result is basically the same, though.
Betty gets a lot of criticism, but Don in specific and the social pressures of what a marriage and a wife and a woman should be in general are what has turned her into the hollow, empty person she is. She's not cold, she's depressed. She is living in an emotionally abusive situation that has slowly destroyed her psyche.
Well, Maddicts, Sunday has turned into Monday and I must get some sleep before the morning when I will go to work and try to run my own little version of Sterling Cooper. I look forward to reading all your posts with my morning coffee.
Oooh! I wanted to bring that up re. Tilden Katz! Was that the name of Rachel's husband? At first I thought it was Don's funny way of saying "'Til then, cats," but then I was like "It's a double-entendre!"
I have to say that I loved Christina Hendrick's scene. Anybody notice that the pen is back on her neck? I hope that things turn around for her with a media opening. Her comments suggested that she seemed very hardened to the situation of women in the steno pool at SC.
As an alcoholic himself, Duck should have done more to help Freddie instead of throwing him under the Bus. Karma is a bitch and I wouldn't want to be standing near either Duck or Pete when it shows it's head.
Nokomis: AA wasn't that big back then. You didn't "help" another alcoholic. It was considered a "moral problem" and you dried yourself out in a hospital or mental institution. You didn't get counseling or anything like that. They hospitalized you until you were dry, then set you back in the world. Duck sees it as a man who couldn't "man up" like he did.
As for the Milwaukee password - did anyone think about beer? They're famous for that.
First Roger tries "swordfish" as the password to get into the underground casino. Then he pays off the bouncer, and belatedly remembers that the password was "Milwaukee."
Here is the classic routine from the Marx Brothers' movie "Horse Feathers": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOxpPJYUTDM
Some folks need to cease with making up excuses for SAB's shitty behavior! She's racist, a shitty mom and malicious!! Why?! Because she is! Stop blaming her momma, her daddy, her children, her husband, the man on the moon and whoever the hell else! She is the one responsible for her tacky behavior!
She's a nasty piece of work! So just see her for who and what she is--a complete "B!"
I hate to bring up an ugly incident, but remember the episode where Duck betrayed Chauncey? Just before he did that dastardly thing, Duck opened a door to an office and was visibly suprised to see someone there. He said something about not getting the evening paper so he could check some artwork and the man in the office then left to get him one. I think Mr. Duck is a closet drinker and goes around the office after hours drinking the booze. Remember he had the bottle in his hand when he looked down and found Chauncey watching him. I am really hoping they come in to work some morning and find the Duckster passed out in someone else's office with an empty bottle in his hand.
Hi
Did Betty ad "new logo/recent packaging" Nestle Chocolate chips in the kitchen scene????
They have done a great job with props-but wondered about the packaging.
Mark
So Cooper is a germ phobe? I wondered about the shoe removal fetish.
With Roger telling his wife, that means he is going to marry Jane -- so she will be leaving anyway.
I don't know the big deal about Freddie's drinking. Don got Sterling drunk in payback for hittling on Betty and Sterling threw up liquor and oysters in front of clients.
Loved the way Freddie restated that Pete got him fired.
Isn't Duck a lame duck? He never seems to bring in clients. Does he even work? Didn't Don hire him as I don't see Don having any power over him.
Loved the way Betty redirected her friend to get her out of her business. Her friend was digging when she said Don was perfect and Betty is weak right now.
Taking the phone off the hook meant -- I'm done with her and my secret is tight.
Betty is saying Damn to herself and will probably let Don come back home for lack of other options. Sally is just too clingy to Don. Betty realizes how much the kids love him and does not know what to do. That Sally is a handful and could easily blame mommy for daddy leaving.
There's nothing in the locked desk drawer. Don has already gotten whatever it is.
So Roger has had 2 heart attacks -- damn. Not much of him left for Jane. I'll bet you money -- Roger hasn't slept with Jane yet. She told him she didn't sleep with married men. That's how she got him. Poor Mona -- she'll get paid. Hopefully she'll have a great attorney -- but she wants to be Mrs. Sterling, not Mrs. Ex.
Jimmy Barrett is like a woman scorned -- such a little biotch, like Pete.
Well Maddicts, this is the last post of the night (now early am for me).
I am getting punchy from lack of sleep, but, here goes...did anyone else notice that in the opening sequence when Don opened his newspaper, the main title was: MM suicide?
MM=Marilyn Monroe, and MM=Mad Men!
We don't know for sure that Roger is leaving Mona for Jane.
Why was Jane crying? I think Roger is going after Joan, not Jane. He may have been sleeping with Jane, but I don't know that he's in love with her.
Layers within layers within.....MM: Yes, she was iconic, and when did the stories start breaking re her and the Kennedy brothers? Talk about secrets and infildelities and unhappy women.
And re Floyd Patterson being de-reigned by Sonny Liston, and then Liston by Cassius Clay (later known as Muhammed Ali).
Quick somebody... Google this. I was young then, but I remember.. or I used to know, but have since forgotten ;-)
I thought the scene w/Betty defrosting and lining her drawers was appropriate to the era, but Betty has Carla. Most middle-class women did not have household help, upper middle-class maybe, but then she also rides and there's the country club.
I don't think Betty would have been defrosting her ice box, lining her shelves maybe, but icebox, no .... ;-) Not when there's hired help.
Does anyone feel that Season Two is lacking somewhat in regards to the Soundtrack? Season One seemed to present so much more texture and mood because of the music.
Tonights Episode 9 ended with Marilyn Monroes' sultry rendition of "I'm through with love"; only the song was cut off after a minute or so.
Betty is the most tragic character on the show. Her life is dedicated to a man who doesn't appreciate her, and society hasn't give her any other acceptable options. She's expected to suffer in silence and maintain appearances. She's clinically depressed and receiving no treatment so it's not surprising she can't mother properly. She's casually racist, but so is everyone else on the show. This is pre-Civil Rights.
Hi greensweater, you can't be too surprised at Bette's malice...Remember when she lost the modeling job for Coke Cola? She went out & shot the pigeon's of the next door neighbor who yelled at the kids when the dog chewed one of his birds accidentally while playing in the yard? She was a regular Annie Oakley!
I have a feeling Roger's daughter will be the someone close to him that he loses. She is supposedly seeing a psychiatrist. Once again. I don't know if that means she's dating him, but I took it to mean she was under his care because it's been mentioned that she saw one earlier as a teenager. Clearly she has some issues. If not the daughter then certainly his now socially disgraced soon to be ex-wife. She doesn't strike me as the kind of woman who would want to live through the type of early '60's stigma and embarrassment that came along with divorce. Even worse, she's being dumped for the young office hottie. Ouch! Hummm, now that I think about it maybe it's Joan. (which would be a damn shame and I'd have to kill someone at AMC.) Roger has already made the obvious comparison of her to Marilyn Monroe. Nevertheless, I think Freddy committing suicide is a bit too obvious for this show.
Jane is sleeping with Roger but was clearly flirting with Don when she saw an opening. He let himself slightly warm to her. She was ready to betray Roger. Which he realizes all in a single moment there at the door to his office.
Roger his "friend" gets him to open up about his philosophy about life and it leads to the break up of Roger's marriage. Roger hates war sissies and whacked Freddie. How would he feel if he knew the truth about Don?
Freddie Rumson served in war far more bravely than Don and is ruined by the same act (pissing himself) that gave Don his deserter's way out of his war and new identity.
Is it any wonder Don is horrified by the world? Nothing but disloyalty, betrayal and misunderstanding all around--and-- "It doesn't end well."
Loved Don's, "I want her off my desk!" the look of utter freaked outness was just awesome. As was his "shutting the door" on Roger--literally and figuratively.
Don wants to at least give his kids some kind of decent fiction. Betty is just drifting. Doesn't seem to care.
And loved the "A real Archibald Whitman move" line. It takes that much booze to get him to cough up that one oblique, but revealing bit. And the look on Don's face when Roger says they're "in it together"-- Don looks like "you've got to be kidding." Just great.
JeriB -- Thanks for that Title !! I was trying to see it, and hubster was no help. Ship of Fools -- How perfect. Katherine
Anne Porter. The bookjacket even took me back -- the
font style, the design -- perfect.
It would have been too ironic, if she'd been reading something by Cheever ;-)
Thanks to those who cleared up the Tilden Katz reference. What I don't get is why the other guys laughed like it was some kind of private joke (of course when you're that sauced anything Don called himself would have been funny to that group).
I'm with those who feel like the dialogue is a bit garbled (who can forget all the chatter when people thought Roger actually asked "Do you smoke crack" vs. "Do you smoke, Crane?" a few episodes back?. Seems to me some finely honed dialogue gets wasted sometimes which is a shame (unless the writers do it for kicks just to stir up chatter on the blog). To make matters worse, some of the dialogue has to be spoken with a cigarette hanging out of the mouth--most of us have gotten out of practice listening to folks as they try to light a cig which is a good thing. I swear my clothes smell like stale smoke after I finish watching a MM episode....
Having worked as a secretary in the Corporate world in 1962, I experienced some of the same things going on at SC. We had a blood drive in the cafeteria (some people got paid then for donating blood, but not at the company); and one time I interviewed for a job at Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser) and they told me they had free beer breaks vs. coffee breaks. (I didn't get that job.)
Laura Petrie: I had a dress exactly like Joan's blue one (not the patterned one). It was angora and had the same bow, but I had it in yellow. I didn't see Peggy's dress in the next episode, but I do know that black and white houndstooth check was very "in" in the early 1960s.
Pattyo: I think Joan, especially, was crying because she related to MM so much.
Tam Tam: I had a refrigerator in an apt. that I rented at that time that you had to defrost. I sent away in a catalog for a gadget you plug in to melt the ice and foolishly went our shopping. When I came back all the plastic was melted and the eggs on the shelf were hard-boiled. I had to buy the owner a new refrig. Blame it on my youth. I also put contact paper on anything and everything.
Can't add a thing---you've all covered everthing beautifully already! Love these posts!
One thing I would like to see is for Mona to take Roger to the cleaners in the divorce..then for Jane to get all the furs, clothes, houses, trips, diamonds/jewels, etc.out of him--- and then when she (and the alimony!) has left him practically destitute, she dumps him--- and then he tries to crawl back to Mona! But, hell, knowing Mona, she'd probably take the skunk back!!!!
Anyone else catch Don's comment at the bar with Roger about Archibald Whitman, a drunk he once knew? That must have been "Dick Whitman's {Don's alter ego), father.
A lot of you bring up such good points! It really helps to set my thoughts straight, as sometimes it gets hard to put everything together! It's nice to have a second (and third and fourth...) opinion about things!
Don...the show revolves around him and his downward spiral. Nothing lasts forever, not even Don's facade. We're seeing the cracks beginning to show and how everything relates to everything else.
I like the comment about how Betty can't decide what to do if Don isn't willing to open up to her about what he's doing in the city. Her depression is directly related to how she is finally growing up! She was raised to not do anything for herself, not think for herself, and just live the "american dream". well, the american dream is a nightmare, and she's realizing that! what she thought was the perfect life is a fake. Yes, she's cold to her kids and a bit shallow, but it's because what she was raised to believe is complete bullshit. It's good for her to finally wake up to what's going on and take off the mask, but she doesn't know how to deal with it. And with Don not willing to talk to her about anything (probably because he sees her as his mask) she's headed for disaster.
Peggy...She is not cold-hearted, she's keeping her cool. In this world of male egos and unwritten rules, I think she's doing real well keeping up the pace. She didn't realize that she was supposed to tell Don about Freddie because she didn't know the "rule". Which is only contributing to Don's downward sprial. First, he wasn't told about Freddie, then he wasn't let in on the pre-meeting, then Roger is pressing him for answers at the bar without telling him why (because of Jane's pillow talk)...he's just getting blindsighted left and right!
Pete...total douche, but he plays it well! I don't think Peggy will tell him about his love child for a while, if ever, because once it's out, the suspense is over and what fun would that be, right? half the fun of the show is waiting in agony week after week wondering if the plot is going to unfold the way you thought it would.
Freddie...WOW, just WOW! poor guy! worked for S/C since the beginning, since roger's father was boss and now gets kicked to the curb. It all finally sets in for him as he gets in the cab "No, really, Don, WHAT DO I DO??" the night is over, the fun is over, don and roger just tried to delay the inevitable. I won't be surprised if Freddie goes the way of death of a salesman. only going to send Don further down the sprial because Don really liked the guy!!!
Menken's shopping bag...at first I thought Jane was trying to buy don's affections (hubby still thinks so). now i think her and roger were pillow talking and thought
"hey something is wrong with don"
"well, he mentioned he was staying at the roosevelt"
"oh, and I see dry cleaning coming and going out of the office"
"we should really help him out-i'll go buy him some shirts"
initially i thought she was doing it to help his extra-marital affairs (because one of the "rules" of being a secretary is to help your boss keep everything on the downlow) so maybe that was her way of helping him keep everything under wraps. now i'm not so sure.
jane...office slut, what can i say? i don't remember her saying something about not sleeping with someone who is married (as some previous post stated) but it makes sense that Roger can't have her and finally came to his breaking point at the bar after hearing Don talk.
Speaking of the bar scene, Don doesn't feel bad about what's going on???? then why the hell is he so upset? it seems like if he really didn't care, he'd be finding another bed to lie in.
Joan...i thought for sure she was laying on roger's couch because her engagement was off. i thought i recall a sneak peek with her looking in the mirror at a bruise on her arm and then her yelling "don't you ever do that to me again!" is she being abused? and was the guy she was having dinner with last episode her fiancee? looked too young-i thought she liked them old. anyway, she hasn't gotten enough airtime this go round. I want to know how she gets back at Harry for hiring someone else when she was doing AWESEOME at the tv script research. Joan will not let that go easy. I thought she was going to become the next Peggy...
I'm definitely loving the 2nd season better. i don't have enough time or energy to write about all the paralells and circles with ALL episodes. But it's exactly like life-you can't do something without affecting everything else. it's all connected. don't forget that.
I felt that in this episode Betty arranged this lunch "date" for Sara Beth to indulge her in a little flirtation perhaps because her friend mentioned she felt "Invisible" she knew he would provide her with some attention. But I don't think Betty is a saint. She could also be jealous that Sara Beth feels lucky in her marriage and wants to somehow interfere with that. I always feel conflicted when watching this show HA!
Just a few comments about tonight's show, and thanks for all the previous ones--
Whenever I think nostalgically about the past I thank God for frost free refrigerators. Defrosting the refrigerator was a god-awful job.
Did anyone notice how Betty's face changed after she invited the young man to lunch and she wa walking away? I thought that was really great acting.
In an earlier show Betty alluded to being "nordic." She reminds me a lot of certain of my Swedish relatives--won't talk about how she feels, even when the wheels are turning very fast inside, cold with her kids, it seems all she ever does is send them to bed. It was a great scene at the end, though, when you see her friends sitting at the restaurant, enjoying themselves, and then it cuts to Betty, harassed and joyless in her kitchen, putting time in with her kids. And yet, despite her depression she's setting up her friends. Interesting.
Hi Zabadu, thank you for introducing me to this link! Being new to the website itself this was a treat! It’s funny how we all interpret characters differently. This was an eye-opener. :-)
Specific comments to individuals:Hapynzap:I agree with you about your criteria for giving blood, however, [hate to agree with Zabadu on this] the criteria has changed greatly from the 60"s. All the lifestyle questions came into play during the hysterical 80's. But, Zabadu RC always asked preliminary questions. Midcenturymod; yes it's very possible that Freddie has another problem that could be causing Petite mall seizures.Martiniup; I totally agree with you. Betty is in a clinical depression, she never get's dressed, her hair looks like she doesn't shower[too much effort for someone so down] she is drinking alone in the middle of the day. She is MISERABLE with her life and doesnt know what to do where to go or how to cope. She is not a bitch or a bad mother because she doesn't care, it's because she can't even take care of herself, and just getting out of bed is a struggle .To ZABADU; I said nothing about drinking and driving. As for firing people over drinks I'm sure that still happens.But said nothing about that either.You said Betty was setting up her friend [I think, I loose track after so many exchanges] or living vicariously through her friend.[That might have been someone else as well] I just remember your tone was completely unforgiving.I guess you've never had to deal with someone suffering from a real mental illness. Good on you.You come off as so negative to many peoples comments.You weren't the only one around in the 60's. Everyones memories are their own and seen through their own lens. By the way women still can loose their status after divorse if their whole lives were tied up into being Mrs. Fill in the blank.
Did anyone catch that comment Roger made to Freddie about a friend who went to a clinic to dry out and came back cured and now only drinks beer. My how times have changed! One beer a day qualifies as an alcoholic in todays
world and anyone with an alcohol problem is advised to drink "none!" I also agree with everyone who finds Betty an inadequate mother. She just doesn't seem to care at all about the kids even though she is home all day with lots of time on her hands. Dan is a less than adequate father as well.I thought parents in the 1960s were supposed to be better parents than today. I don't see it with those two. It looks like Roger has finally fallen in love. Even 'Miss Holloway" wasn't enough for him to leave his wife but Jane must be some thing special. He said to Don at the bar that there are some "Incredible women" out there but they are off limits because they are married. But Don is such a "man ho" (with anyone even old Bobbie) he should not be particularly upset with Roger or Jane as he is doing the same thing. But as is his usual he is in denial and looks like a fool.
I like to twist plots around in my mind. I believe that Roger really found the ideal woman in Joan. He is taking up with Jane to hurt Joan for leaving him for a healthier, younger, potentially successful (soon to be doctor) man .
Betty, I feel, put her friends together because she is angry at men right now. She is angry at the comedian Jimmy for being crass and disclosing the his wife & Don's affair, she is of course angry at Don. I think she at first wanted to take a try at Arthur when she went to the stables but when she saw him flirting away she took pause & decided to throw her friend at this married man as a show of contempt of marriage and relationships. She knows she can 'turn off the switch' at will. Meaning she can detach herself from human feelings. Freddie may have killed in the War but he has shown an uneasiness about taking life. Betty can take a rifle and take down a bunch of birds for vengeance only with complete calm. But she pays a dear price for this. She is completely depressed (unexpressed anger) and has had boughts of paralysis. Will she completely crash and burn? Disconnect from the whole world completely? I am hoping for an epiphany- but I'm an optimist!
There are no blanketed good guys or bad guys in this show. It is an observation of human action and reaction. And the good and bad choices people make. Peggy is surviving as best as she knows how. She may appear 'heartless' as someone earlier mentioned but she has loyalty - she even says she 'loves' Freddie at one point to express her gratitude and respect for people who have helped her. That is why she is fiercely loyal to Don. There were no self help sections in the bookstores, no Dr. Phil, no O Magazine to get advice in the early 60's. Everyone was winging it. This show, I think, is showing us how that 'winging it' failed which led to the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, if you will. Searching for deeper answers to all those previously unanswered inner questions. My two cents- thanks for reading if you got this far!
Random thoughts (Yes, this is one of those “long posts” someone complained about the other day. :)
“Some people just hide in plain sight” – while there are obviously many layers and meanings behind this, I think Hollis, the elevator operator meant himself, how African Americans at the time were treated like scenery in the ad men’s world. Mostly in service positions and not given much consideration.
It’s so fitting that Joan felt Monroe’s loss so deeply. She knows how it feels to be seen as nothing but a sex symbol, when there is so much more to her. Especially given her short stint as more-than-a-secretary, she is probably exploring the other sides of herself and wants to break outside of her box. “This world destroyed her,” – I think she hopes the world won’t destroy her too.
Sally, hugging her father and starting to cry as he had to leave as soon as he comes back – so heartbreaking. So many kids of divorce and separation feel torn apart between their parents in that back and forth shift.
Jane – I wanted to think that she was just feeling sorry for Don, but had the feeling that she was just trying to get her claws into him. The Menkin’s bag was just another (unintended) sting to him about his infidelities.
Did Don really feel that bad for Freddie Rumson (defending him to the frat boys), or was he just thinking how bad he’d feel if news of his marital problems came to light at the office and people were making fun of him?
Pete is a snake. But I wouldn’t expect anything less from him.
Peggy went further up in my estimation. There’s still quite a bit of integrity and honor in that girl. I’m glad she let loose and went off on Pete. She should do that more often.
Roger leaving his wife for the secretary based on what drunk Don said feels like it’s coming from left field. I don’t see how it got there. I think Roger just used Don’s words as an excuse, and Roger deserves to be shot down. CANNOT WAIT for Joan’s reaction to Jane/Roger and where Jane will be put next in the office.
Don is obviously not at his best this week, and that seems to result in numerous Freudian slips - "Suicide is disturbing" and "a drunk I knew".
From the teaser at the end, I predict that Betty’s father falls sick or dies after she fights with him over the separation. She calls Don and he tries to comfort her. Then they have make-up sex on the bedroom floor. Take that, Visan. :)
I've missed a couple of important details and wonder if anyone could fill me in (I hate to wait till I can see the first season on DVD again). How did Don Draper come to switch identities with his sergeant (or lieutenant). I assume he died and I know there were only the two of them present. I must have missed a few minutes right in there. Then, NancyStowOH mentioned something about Don sending a book to someone and signing it "D". These details seem important to the story.
Also, as I recall, Marilyn Monroe dying was not the emotional equivalent of Princess Diana (or of JFK, MLK and RFK shortly thereafter). I hardly remember any "office talk" about it. And no, JFK's
affairs were not common knowledge back then.
Thanks.
mcmere, what you describe is a nihilist, not an exisentialist. I don't believe Don is either. His apparent lack of commitment is really an absolute inability to trust anyone -- and given what we know of his upbringing it's not too surprising he feels that way. The amount of energy takes him to repress his desire for trust and intimacy is driving him crazy.
We really have some social darwinism manifesting in this office. These guys were on Freddy's bones quicker than white on rice. I would like to see Betty explore an affair to remember. When and who will be the lucky lad? The kid at the stables seems too spot on. I really didnt see the ending of 9 coming at us like it did. Looks like Margaret has figured out how to start some real fires.
Susanne - Don used to be farmboy, Dick Whitman (the "drunk (he) knew" was his mean stepfather). He entered the army during the Korean war to escape his past and when he was stationed with only one other soldier (the real Don Draper), they were attacked. The other soldier died in a fire, and Dick decided to switch dogtags. He assumed Draper's identity, won a purple heart, got out of the army early, and was sent to bring the other soldier's body home (to HIS family). He chickened out on getting off the train and talking to the family (for obvious reasons), but his half-brother Adam saw him through a train window. Years later Adam went to find Don, but Don pushed him away, paying him $5,000 to leave and never come back. Adam committed suicide (which Don says is "disturbing). Lovely story, huh?
natattack - I think Roger is leaving his wife for Jane. He's been hitting on her and helped her get her job back. It's possible he'd leave Mona for Joan, given his past with her, but Joan seems to feel just contempt for Roger now.
I'm really glad Mad Men won for best drama. It's a unique show that I've been watching since the very first episode. Isn't it funny to see people function without cell phones and the internet back then? Good Night!
I never heard the phrase "Give a Chinaman a music lesson" before so I Googled it. Personally I prefer the much more hilarious #two version, "I gotta go drop off the kids at the pool."
With all the junk released in both TV and movies out of Hollywood these days, it is always great to come across one of these rare gems.
The scene where Freddy pisses himself was hard to watch, yet riveting. Of course Pete and Duck take advantage of the situation....
Betty may be more manipulative than Don even, if that is possible. Don is a very complex character, I agree with those who say he is someone who cannot feel anything no matter how hard he tries....yet he does have some moral compass, just not in all areas of his life.
Great catch on the Tilden Katz reference, I had missed that.
What Mona meant by "you can talk to Margaret" is that he can do his explaining to their daughter why he is breaking up the family. And, I've always thought it's ridiculous to mourn celebs, especially the superficial sluts, and pimps in hollywood. Don, and Roger had it right, MM had it all and she threw it away herself, (IDIOT TRAMP). I'm sure if Joan would die MM wouldn't have gave a shit about her. And Jimmy Barret asked the wrong champ for advice. Floyd Patterson? What a paper Tiger. Sonny Liston destroyed him, and then Ali put the Coup de Grace on his ass. An overblown Light Heavywieght that got lucky, and had the title briefly. Obviously, Roger is banging Don's Secretary, but i don't think Don appreciated his name being brought up. I guesss Roger can Blame Don if he wants to come back to Mona later. And what about the veiled threats made to Don about his loyalties becoming a liability? DICK!
In defense of Jimmy: I don't get why everyone's so pleased that Don socked poor Jimmy. Don's action reflects more on him and his anger at himself than on Jimmy, who plays the role of the court jester, whom everyone kicks around but he tells the truth. He looked Don in the face and told him exactly what kind of louse he is for sleeping with another man's wife. Don hitting Jimmy is just part of Don's own ongoing denial trip. And Jimmy bounced right back, he knew not to take it personally.
Also in defense of Betty: Lots of comments about how cold and conniving she is. She makes me think about the wrath of a woman scorned. She can't stand the pain of the realization that the man she adores has done her so wrong. Can't figure out why she set up her friend though. If you watch the video on the Madmen blog homepage where the cast analyzes the show, they talk about Betty feeling betrayed by them???
Don't feel too sorry for Freddie. He has had an ongoing drinking problem at the office and was outed by Roger on the farewell for the zipper song. He was probably drunk then too.
I think Jane and Roger must have been having their trysts in a tanning bed (if there was such a thing at the time). Both of them have orange skin! Orange cheaters! :)
I liked how Betty set her friend up for an affair; it's sad, but kind of funny. Everyone around her is a cheater and they've proven that to her. And she gets to be the perfect, faithful wife by passing the temptation to cheat off on her friend.
At least the "fake bake" is better than going out in the sun and getting skin cancer. Still, it looks pretty hideous! I wonder where Roger and Jane have been hanging out for them to get the "tans". Having some "From Here to Eternity" moments?
Oh please...Bette is a silly asssed bitch....yes she IS probably suffering from clinical depression but she is also selfish, vain, and vacuous in addition to being a piss more mother. I am sure that she will take Don back because she realizes that she has NO SKILLS to sell on the employment market and no way to sustain the (material) lifestyle to which Don's considerable skills and talent have allowed her to become accustomed.
During this season Don has attempted to change is doggish ways are at least ameloriate them by becoming a better dad...Bette just acts as though the children are an impediment to her being totally self centered
re Jimmy...Jimmy's anger at Don stems not from the mere fact he had affair with Bobbye...it's clear from earlier episodes that Bobbye had many an affair...it's that that Bobbye was really falling in love with Don and Jimmy knew it...
Hi a mob hit! The thought went through my mind that the real Don Draper is receiving an inheritance from a family member
How would Don/Dick deal with that?
So I'm thinking that Jane never though Roger would leave his wife. I think she likes to feel important. She practically ignores Ken, but gives lots of attention to Don and Roger--the important, powerful men. Certainly having Roger's wife storm into Don's office was embarrassing, but I don't think she would have pursued things with Roger if she had any inkling he would leave his wife. Likely more of a way to show up Joan... "look who I can attract the attention of. You're old news."
60'schild... An inheritance from the real Don Draper's family sounds very plausible. Good thinking! If that is the case, I suspect it will work on other levels as well. I posted last night that I think Pete might inherit some of his bad karma.
I agree with divayaya69. Betty is selfish, self-centered and a horrible mother. I truly believe she does not like her kids and does not like Don. A miserable human being. Don is so much better.
Roger is a total asshole; I never really hated him until now. Hope he drops dead "in flagrante delicto" on top of Jane. Joan is much too smart to have broken up that marriage. She didn't want to marry Roger, anyway. Jane's an idiot. I think Joan needs to move out of that toxic environment.
Kudos to wryter1 (where has he been?). He posted a couple of months ago that Freddie's drinking may have been a result of his demons from WWII. Looks like he was right. I got the feeling that Freddie is the one who's going to jump out the window. He said "Goodbye, Don" when Don said "Good night."
I caught the "Archibald Whitman" reference too.
I was liking Duck, but he should be showing some compassion for Freddie, since he himself is a recovering alcoholic.
Betty will be coming into an inheritance (perhaps money from her late mother?) This may enable her to take some control over her life. Her father hates Don!
As usual, I don't know what to make of Don. He acts so self-righteous in this episode.
Anyone catch Roger telling Don "BBD&O hired a colored kid?" I think we'll start seeing the black characters developed more fully soon.
First, Archie Whitman is Dick/Don's biological father! Archie's the dude who was in last season's Hobo Code and refused to give the hobo any money for the farm work. Second, Don totally loves his children! And, IMHO, he's fearful SAB will lose what little mind she has and harm them physically! Don's relationship with Bobby and Sally is one of the better things about the show!
Hana--
Isn't Archibald Whitman, Dicks (Don's) real father who died when Dick/Don was 10 by getting kicked in the head by a horse was a drunk --- as he tells Rachel after Roger has the heart attack? Dick/Don's biological mother, a hooker, died in childbirth and Archibald Whitman was left with the child on his doorstep. Archie Whitman's wife then raised Dick/Don, with a man she remarried who Don called "Uncle Mac." She and Uncle Mac were Dick/Don's "brother" Adam's parents. In actuality, Dick and Adam were not blood relations, but Adam apparently looked up to the much older Dick Whitman.
When don says it's a real Achibald Whitman move, it's reminder to him of his feared biological inheritance of impulsive, self-destructive behavior from his town drunk father. It's why he's repulsed by his own catting around-- at least to some extent.
I'm hoping that the characters who are black will continue to have more of a presence on Mad Men.
Adorable Sheila returns next show. And of course, Carla's (along with Bobby and Sally) presence at the Draper home is about the only good thing about seeing that damn house! Heck, even Hollis is getting more lines! Thank Goodness!
In those days a lot of women were not permitted to be sexually awake. You had to marry well so you could do your job well - raising children and being part of a community, a parish, whatever. What will happen to Betty if someone wakes her up sexually and emotionally, and she begins to feel her depths? Seems to me she hasn't really known that yet, she's role playing. Not her fault, exactly - it was typical back then. Women were not allowed the least self-possession.
Can't post a new thread on this site - watched it late and quite frankly do not have the time to read all of these threads so sorry if some of these have been touched on here.
(1) Liked Rogers comment to Joan about Marilyn - get a grip. This worship of celebrities in our culture is ridiculous
(2) Don made a reference to "Archibald Whitman" when talking to Roger about punching Jimmy Barrett
(3) Why do I get the feeling that we will see Rumson in a later episode as a homeless person. Something so unsettling and extremely sad about that whole thing - maybe his wife will kick him out and Don will run into him on the street somewhere. Just really believe this - and it will knock Don for a gigantic loop
(4) Betty, Betty, Betty - you really need help - I understand you are devastated Don cheats and your life isn't PERFECT but you are getting on my nerves now. Last week you had me - you lost me this week
(5) Don and Peggy work really well together and the trailer next week shows this again - also he was impressed by Peggy when she mentioned that they'd have to pull Marilyn ads - plus she wasn't crying like the rest of the sects.
(6) Roger is a real nit-wit. He couldn't have Joan so he goes with this dweeb Jane. It's so typical and quite frankly a boring storyline. Joan and Roger at least had spark - this Jane is plain.
How somebody reads this on this ridiculously long thread
Wow! ususally do not enter convo but I have to say Bettys character is so real. We are lucky she gets out of bed. She is the true desperate housewife. Loved the manipulation of the lunch. I can see why many are upset about the children but this is so text book. She cares and loves deeply. She's DEPRESSED in limbo. Been there done that. Moms are not perfect we grow and learn from mistakes. In the twenty years I have been a mom I have made plenty.
Rachel was as exciting as a dirt sandwich or oatmeal. If she had married Don in her early twenties she would now be the repressed and depressed housewife and Betty would be a fabulous model. I can not see why some are defending a woman who sleeps with a married and a man who cheats. Very strange.
Archibald Whitman was Dick and Adam's father. Uncle Mac was apparently Adam's mother's brother. I'd have to go back to the Hobo Code to be sure, but that's what I remember. When Adam was born, Uncle Mac asked Dick to come see his brother and he said he wasn't his brother and Uncle Mac said, "You have the same father, that makes him your brother."
Oh and this was prob mentioned before but didn't ROGER ACTUALLY THROW UP OYSTERS ON A CLIENT AND HE'S GOT THE GALL TO WANT TO FIRE RUMSON when what he did was in the privacy of his office? Roger and Pete willl regret that - KARMA baby. I like that Peggy had such a strong reaction to it. She is clearly the only one uncomfortable with what happened. Don tried, meekly, to defend Rumson but once the decision was made he had no choice. Although if he really wanted to defend Rumson he should have thrown the oyster incident into Rogers face.....
I also noticed this week how Don is all about appearances. Here is a guy he bangs CLIENTS and he has a prob with Roger and his sect?!
I had mentioned months ago that I thought the character Pete looked like a cross between pee wee herman and mylie cyrus lol
I am also trying to watch the episode again on demand and it isn't there yet ... how long does it take before they put it on
when I saw the newspaper headlines MM I was also thrown and didn't connect it with Marilyn right away ... when my daughter was in her teens she was really into Marilyn Monroe and bought a book about her at a yard sale
I think it is Joan Roger is leaving his wife for and that is why Jane was crying
Susanne,
I remembert it as you did about Marilyn Monroe's death - people were shocked because of her young age, but otherwise everyone, even my classmates, didn't talk about it much.
She was no where near the Princess Diana of her time. Diana actually did things for people without expecting anything in return, like the land mine campaign, AIDS, and other causes she helped before they were popular to support. Marilyn Monroe was a movie star and even her fans knew she was unstable - the marriages and constant affairs, although we didn't know about her and the Kennedy brothers until long after her death. Remember, the newspapers at that time didn't publish everything they knew about celebrities - certainly unlike today. There was, however, a lot of press about her not showing up for that last movie she made with Clark Gable - she cost the studio a lot of time and money by showing up late, not at all or being under the influence of (prescription) drugs.
Did anyone think it was ironic that this episode with MM's death in it was aired just 2 days after another legend, Paul Newman, passed away?
McMere, I don't think most of the women who post on this board are sexist enough to condemn Don for cheating and then praise Betty for doing it. After all, don't both genders hate liars and cheaters? Are you more forgiving of Don because he's a guy and "everyone did it" at that time? Kind of insulting to have someone ask that, isn't it?
I think the reason that Betty arranged the lunch between her friend and the guy at the stable is that her friend has been asking too many questions and she wanted to create a distraction for her so that she wouldn't keep bothering her. She wants to keep her marital problems a secret, and her friend was getting too close.
For me, the best line in the show was when Roger was talking to Don and assumed that he felt bad (about not living at home any more), and Don replied that he doesn't feel bad at all, only relieved.
I hope that Betty is able to get into that locked desk and finds out about "Dick Whitman." Surely that's where Don keeps that stuff.
Looking forward to the next episode, I noticed that several of the characters asked one another "Are you afraid?" I think they're talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis, which occured in October 1962. I'm betting that the unease over that situation will have Betty begging Don to come home to be with her and the kids.
Bobbie, Rachel, Midge, Joan, hell, even Peggy and Jane, owned their sexuality! All were women of that era and have/had no problem expressing their desires! Bobbie was from an even "older" era and she managed to be a damn good mom, tending to her teen son and seeing her daughter in a play at an uppity college. So, being a momma and living in that era are no reasons for SAB behaving the needy, vindictive loon!
Great episode, great comments. Gail, I did hear Roger say that to Don, and heard Don's reply that 'I wouldn't want to be that kid.' Nice to see Big D's more sympathetic to him that the ad agency. I also like that comment from the black elevator operator about Marilyn, that some people hide in plain sight. Subtle racial notes this week, probably presages more serious stuff.
Dry Manhattan, did they have an ad for Revolutionary Road on? I caught the show on TW On Demand, so I missed it. Damn, can't wait to see that one, although I am afraid they will ruin one of my favorite books.
So many great big things in this episode -- I think the 'Six Month Leave' title was nice, because this whole episode seemed to be about euphemisms for the awful truth. It's sounds temporary, but it's really checking out -- just like Marilyn did. What do we call Don/Betty's separation? What do we call Freddy getting shitcanned for being an alcoholic? What do we call Roger's checking out of the marriage? A few random thoughts:
+ Don's Great Advice Strikes Again! Betty's line to Don about selling anything to anyone was great, and seemed to set up Roger buying his booze-filled speech about 'moving forward.' Again, it seems like everyone who emulates Don/takes his advise/adopts his world view may end up the worse for it.
+ Betty Can Act! I thought January Jones was phenomenal this week. Her body seemed held down by imaginary weights, which is sort of what depression feels like. The writers correctly aren't giving her the moments that flash 'Award scene', but that's true to where she is -- bravo to her and the writers for playing it straight. (Yellow's a big color for her; any thoughts? Yellow can signal sunshine, but also sickness. Also, there was a short story called 'the Yellow Wallpaper' about a young wife who goes mad. Anyone remember that?) I don't view anything sinister into Betty setting up that lunch between Sara Beth and Arthur; she felt sad for SB when she said she felt invisible. Maybe I'm wrong.
+ Great Small Things! I've rambled too much, so I'll wrap up by praising this episode for the awesome little touches throughout. The writers have created a full universe here, and they really know/love these characters. I loved when Roger said they were going to 'take another lap' before ordering food but told the waiter to bring bread. Like the best seasoned drinkers, Roger knows it's going to be a hard night so they'll need some bread to keep them from getting soused too early! (Maybe a myth, but drinkers believe it). I loved when Cosgrove told Sal to smoke after giving blood. I loved Harry's imitation of Freddy ('Jesus!'), even if Don was right to dress them down. I loved Sal cracking up when Freddy wet himself. I loved how Peggy said she loved Freddy (he always nurtured her), and how she immediately knew it was Pete who screwed him -- and I loved how Pete's secretary Hildy (who's gorgeous) called him out too; she rightly has no respect for Pete. I loved how the 'Jackies' and the 'Marilyns' consoled each other separately the morning after the news of MM's suicide broke. I loved Freddy's nobility in the face of embarrassment in this episode, and I loved Duck's response that they weren't doing him any favors by pretending it didn't happen. I loved Roger's little punch to Don at the bar; their male bonding scenes are always priceless, hysterical and very true. I loved Don's heartfelt talk to his daughter, and how he called her 'Salamander.' I loved everything Peggy did; she is a quiet but salient observer in this decaying Rome of an office, and will survive because of it.
"Your loyalty is becoming a liability" was the craziest line in the show. Roger clearly has no loyalty and he's telling Don to abandon his. In that gang of a-holes Don's the only one with scruples, and then even barely. Honor among thieves, so to speak.
I have to agree with Jessica though - Don fucks Jimmy's wife then punches him in the face. I guess it's the "Jimmy told me everything" line Betty delivered that gave him the itch, but it's another example of Don protecting his non-existent honor. Jimmy even got a kick out of it. Good for him!
Hi cad men! I'm glad you noticed the newspaper heading too.
I think many young women today connect with Marilyn on some level because she was such a tragic figure. She seemed to have it all...and was never really happy. The "Hollywood machine" is guilty of contributing to her misery.
Yet, I was kind of suprised by all of the female staff at SC crying so much about her death. It's awful to say, but, from what I understand most women of that time envied her.
It was afterward, when people found out about her sad life that people felt sad, and mourned her loss.
I also got a kick out of the fact that it was the elevator operator (can't remember his name) who mentioned Joe Dimaggio, and how Marilyn's death must be affecting him. Don looked at him like he never heard of Joe D.!!
Anyway, that's my latest 2 cents worth!
.....lorantscan, I thought the same thing about Roger and Freddy, and am still not okay with it. Evidently Roger is going through an extreme asshole phase.
I've never seen anyone black out standing up. Freddy didn't seem THAT drunk to me, and I thought at first he was having a petit mal seizure, as MadMenSuze mentioned above.
If he had had a seizure, then him falling asleep immediately after would not be unusual at all. In fact, it would be expected.
Alcohol is also a known trigger in seizure disorders.
I truly didn't understand all that crying over Monroe's death. It was sad but to act like Marilyn was related to every member of the steno pool's family was too much. At least Peggy and her bad bangs kept a cool head!
Owning ones sexuality means sleeping with married men, banging men you work with and debasing yourself for a manipulative man. Thanks i needed that clarification.
Are we not all needy, vindictive, loons? Hmmmm
I thought that Peggy sat on the client's lap, not Freddie's. Also, I loved the last scene with Peggy and Pete, when he put his hand on her arm, and she just looked down on it.
I luv this show!!! ran out and bought the first season and viewed all the episodes in order. I love how they bring back memories of the early 60's, in style, fashion, attitudes, etc. However, I am always amazed at how TV can manipulate the viewers. We all cheered when Don decked Jimmy, and what was Jimmy's crime (outside of the fact that he is obnoxious) he called out Don and told Don's wife that Don was sleeping with his wife. We are glad that Don punched him out for that.
I also love how now everyone is getting on the Mad Men bandwagon. Bryan Bratt (Sal) was being interviewed on CNN this weekend about Paul Newman's death and the anchor was just pouring on the Mad Men praise. The Emmy win may pull this show up yet. Intelligent TV is hard to come by
Again, I really think we haven't seen the last of Rumson - the way he said goodbye to Don was so forboding. I can def see Freddy as a homeless person who runs into a Sterling Cooper employee somewhere along the way. Sad.
Hanna and Dry Martini: I remember using a product called "Man Tan" in those days to look tan, but I came out looking orangey. Horrible!
Etienne: That was not Etta James singing "I'm through with love" it was Nina Simone singing "Wild is the Wind."
Dry Manhattan: I, too, am a jazz fan and loved hearing the Miles Davis recording of "Sketches of Spain" in the Hobo Code episode.
Divayaya69 and a mob hit: I think Betty's father will die and she will be the one to get the "inheritance" so she won't need the skills to get on with her life as you think. She may join up with "The Jet Set." We'll see........
Sandy Manata - I do not praise Don for punching Jimmy. Jimmy did deserve it though just for being an annoying twit. Don really had no choice to do it though. Don is just as ammoral as Jimmy.
....lorantscan, that was kind my drift regarding the book/movie comment.... my theory is they are doing it now because of the buzz surrounding the show.
I felt like that when Princess Diana died. Isn't that corny? But for some reason people tend to relate to the princess of their era. I'm new to the post, haven't been able to read all of the posts - Do we know if Freddie (don't know actor's name) is leaving the show or not? I absolutely love this show. It is exhausting to watch each week, which is what makes it so great. My father was an ad-man of the sixties. Wish he was still alive to watch this!
Well Roger's parting shot to Freddie regarding the zipper song is further evidence that Jane told him since she was there for the performance by a silly ass drunk Freddie.
As for alcoholics they DO have black outs.
I think Freddie is going to be needing that Samsonite suitcase.
.....I agree about the inheritence. Betty has been saying for a while that her father has been ill.
I still say Betty should go back to school, get her Ph. D and go into private practice with Dr. Arnold Wayne.
Draper can be her first patient. Hell, she's halfway there already. Any wife in an extremely deceitful relationship is necessarily forced to become not only her own therapist, but her husband's.
Old Fashioned: What was said in the bar scene with Roger and Don just before he did the punch in the arm thing? I watched twice and still couldn't make it out.
Look, Don's a nympho and it was wrong of him to screw another man's wife. I make no excuses for Don's sluttiness. But I completely, totally cheered Don on for punching the shit outta that unhumorous asshat! Unfunny Comic needed a literal smackdown just for not knowing his place!
Also, Silver Foot makes me wanna snatch him up every time he darkens my damn TV screen! Ugh!
Maybe this is what the "Inheritance" means and not a real inheritance per say. Long read but pretty good. Saw the trailer for the movie and want to see it. I gained a new respect for DiCaprio after "Departed" and "Blood Diamond" He wuz robbed.....
Frank and April Wheeler, the protagonists of Richard Yates' 1961 novel Revolutionary Road, are, in the most basic sense, ordinary people. He works in the city in what he calls "a hopelessly dull job;" she's a stay-at-home mother of two. They live on the street that gives the novel its title, in a cookie-cutter suburb in Connecticut.
In the 300-plus pages of the novel, nothing all that extraordinary happens to them, at least not until the end: Frank and April deal with dissatisfaction and fear, with pregnancy and ambition, and with the dream of escape. Yet in spite of this lack of surface pizazz, Revolutionary Road seems, each time I read it, ever more moving, and ever more an essential testament about mid-20th century America.
Anyone living in the suburbs, as I do, is going to recognize Frank and April's world, but Yates sets his novel very precisely in 1955, that fulcrum year, when America was tipped halfway toward the previous quarter-century of restraint and doing without, and half toward the future, when a greater sexual freedom would call all that restraint into question. Like the greatest American literature, Revolutionary Road is about inheritance: what it is we carry with us from our ancestors, what it is we can never quite shake loose from even when we believe we're breaking free. Frank wants to be a suburban rebel — his own man — but he can't stop feeling his world as a diminished place next to his father's. "He continued to believe that something unique and splendid lived in his father's hands," is the way Yates puts it, and though we eventually learn how small and threatened the old man's world was, that phrase speaks to the continuing burden of the past.
There's another element of the past that Yates evokes beautifully: the way the 1920s' Lost Generation instilled in its sons and daughters growing up in the '50s the dream of escape to Europe. Filtering through Frank and April's days, you can breathe the scent of the old American romanticism and the way it hovered over ordinary couples like these.
But maybe, the novel suggests, it also poisoned them. Frank and April feel a growing emotional distance from their safe and cozy suburban world; Yates charts this not only by rendering in brilliant detail what was so truly stifling about the expectations of the '50s, but by showing us how "the dream of voyages" became a too-easy and ill-thought-out escape hatch for those who considered themselves superior to that world.
When April announces, late in the novel, "I don't know who I am," that overfamiliar line — a line that by all rights should land like a cliché — instead becomes a heartbreaking moment. We've come to see by then just how unformed this young couple is, yet how deeply they are caught inside the world they're trying to flee.
Richard Yates was a famously pessimistic writer, and there's no question that Revolutionary Road, while a hugely pleasurable read, is not an easy one emotionally. Every time I read it, I start to see the world the way Yates did: the clothes hanging on my clothesline begin to look a little shabby, my suburban house in some desperate need of repair. But that's a small price to pay for Yates' clarity. The deeper I get into the life of marriage and parenthood — Yates' special territory — the more essential I find that clarity to be.
.....It was a BIG surprise when Don Draper got sloppy in this episode. First, he dropped the name of his mistress's husband, which was merely indiscreet.
The one that was a big surprise was him dropping the name of Archibald Whitman.
Unless he subconciously wants to come clean about his background, I can't picture the Donald Draper that I know (paranoid, secretive) being that sloppy - especially now that he's seen the real Roger Sterling....it didn't make sense to me.
Remember that Roger doesn't know about this secret. So far, it's only Bert and Pete. You saw how loyal Roger was to Freddy. Now that Roger and Draper are on "the outs," what do you think Roger is going to do, when he finds out about Dick Whitman?
Roger is now in the "dangerous, capable of anything" category, right along with Pete.
Also, I thought Julie McNiven (Hildy) looked even thinner than usual. She was slender before, but seemed a little gaunt....JMHO.
And I have to say, things are not looking good for Pete. He seems to be digging his own grave just the way that Draper said he would. Then he'll become a Freddy.
Dry Manhattan: your line about a wife not only being her own therapist but her husbands. Is sooo smart , just like the show, it should be used in the show. I cant help but think they get some of there ideas from this blog.
Last night had so much going on! It was a disgrace that Frank pissed his pants and didn't even realize it, then he fell asleep!lol That was hilarious. I don't like Pete but i agree it was disgusting.Frank is a funny guy but that type of behavior is unacceptable. Also, I was happy that Don sucker punched Jimmy even though i dont like Don infidelities, Jimmy deserved it he talk to damn much among other things. The fact that Roger tell Don everything else he should have given him notice about the affair. I was stunned Roger was leaving his wife after 25 years but i guess the marriage was dry anyway. She deserved a better way of finding out al least that. I love the show and how they put everything in perspective. I didn't want it to end last night.
When I saw the various sequences pertaining to the sudden death of Marilyn Monroe, what I saw were people who became profoundly enmeshed with her, and over-identified with her and her public life and persona. This was self-evident in these scenes:
The first takes place in the elevator:
Hoss: You heard about Marilyn? Poor thing.
Peggy: It's very upsetting.
Don: Can't say I'm suprised, few things I know about her.
Peggy: You don't imagine her being alone, being so famous.
Hoss: Some people just hide in plain sight.
Peggy: My mother and sister keep calling.
Don: Suicide is depressing.
Hoss: I keep thinking about Joe DiMaggio.
And later, in Roger's office:
Joan: She was so young...
Roger: Not you, too?
John: Yes, I'm just another frivous secretary.
Roger: It's a terrible tragedy. But...that woman is a stranger. Roosevelt? I hated him, but I felt like I knew him.
Joan: A lot of people felt they knew her and you should be sensitive to that.
Roger: Hey, you're not like her. Physically, a little bit, but,that don't tell it makes you sad.
Joan: This is not a joke. This world destroyed her.
Roger: Really? She was a movie star who had everything and everybody, and she threw it all away. But hey, if you want to be sad...
Joan: One day, you'll lose someone who's important to you. You'll see. It's very painful.
That last line foreshadow what happens between Roger and his wife in the episode's end.
Love this show - this episode was especially good...So, I have not read all of the entrys, so if I repeat something, sorry...
1. Betty takes the phone off the hook...here, she looks at her watch about the time the lunch started - ie, did not want to pick up the phone in case her horsey friends call asking where she is.
2. Roger keeps needling Don about what's going on because JANE told him about Don's daughter calling - Jane knew Don was not out of town, so something was up - besides, do you see Roger EVER getting to the office early? I think Jane told Roger what was going on, not vice versa.
3. Nice touch on the Roger and Jane reveal!
4. I know an alcoholic - he told me he used to lose control of his bladder because he was so smashed...
5. I think Betty wants Don to admit the truth before he can come back - she is feeling like she is crazy because she can't find any evidence to his sleeping around.
6. YES - women cried when MM died - esp. those like Miss Holloway - always trying to get credit for their brains rather than their looks - remember how devastated she was when that script reading job went from her to that new guy? Women were constantly overlooked in the workplace.
7. LOVE the Menken's bag, Sal's reaction the drink, the drawer liners, but especially...
8. The secret seapartion of the Drapers...my parents separated in the 70's and I remember not being able to tell a soul because of the shame society put on broken marriages...totally reflected here!
9. One more thing - WHO DID DON MAIL THAT BOOK TO IN THE FIRST EPISODE? DRIVING ME CRAZY HERE...
Margaret is the daughter who is getting married. I had to go back and watch that whole Mona scene then watch the bar sceene again. Sterling COMPLETELY turned the whole conversation around and made is seem that Don gave him the advice he gave to Don. Very peculiar.
I like reading all the comments and it always amazes me how divergent the views are.
I finally decided to sign up and add my two cents because I just can't take the Betty bashing anymore. Betty has been called every name in the book with a level of hatred and anger that I can only view as misplaced, at best, and pathological at worst. Has anyone ever heard of "blame the victim"?
I also would not go so far as to characterize her as more racist than any of the other characters (I'm African-American by the way.) If Betty was a real bigot (as opposed to just careless of anyone below her in status in a general way) she would never have tolerated Carla's advice to her, which essentially amounted to telling her to stop wallowing in her depression.
My take on the other characters:
Don - Just can't help loving this "bad boy' from the safety and privacy of my bedroom..wouldn't give him the time of day in real life..
Pete - Weasel...with just enough appeal to hold your interest...(Just admit it..don't analyze it.)
Peggy - LOVE her and rooting for her all the way
Joan - Love her too..her looks pretty much pigeon hole her into her role at the office but she does everything in her power to manage that role rather than being a victim
Roger - Get's great one liners..Didn't see the leaving the wife thing coming AT ALL..still think he really loves Mona but he's acting out a mid life crisis after the heart attacks, etc.
How they portray African-Americans - Love the subtlety..hope they don't start overdoing it and getting melodramatic..continue to treat it with the dignity and delicacy it deserves..
Sorry for the long post but it is probably my last for a long while...
I'm really surprised that Pete was interested in seeing Peggy succeed up the ladder. do you think that it was just a happy by product of his own success, so with no cost to him he can be happy for her? or do you think he wants to see her do well?
also, Jane and Roger?!? good God, I can't wait to see how Joan will react!
..... jalowe1957, I think maybe people don't realize they are overidentifying until a tragedy occurs.
I had just lost both of my parents when Princess Diana was murdered. Until that moment, I had no idea how much I had leaned on her image as a kind of beacon, so her violent death was like a shot through the heart.
Same with Peter Jennings. I had literally just lost my lifelong best friend, and took Mr. Jennings' death extremely hard. And I don't even WATCH ABC News!
Same with Mr. Rogers, who was my surrogate father when my whole family split up at age 4, etc., etc., etc.
Like Marilyn, JFK, MLK, etc., all those figures were one-of-a-kind, larger than life, and left a giant void in the culture when they passed.
What I'm saying I guess is that some people personalize the loss because it's not just their little lives that are shaken, it's the world. To them, it seems the whole world is falling apart.
I think suze is right about Freddie something more happened there. Probably brought on by years of drinking. Felt bad for Freddie. Notice he said Goodbye to Don.
MAD MEN IS THE BEST SHOW ON TV!
The ending was a shocker. Peggy is really growing too. I remember that time the Women's movement, Civil RIghts movement, Gay Rights.
you know all that will weave into the events and daily lives of all the characters.
CAN'T WAIT TILL NEXT SUNDAY!
It's Monday morning and most subjects have been covered. A couple of things regarding Jane. I'm watching the repeat right now and Don asked Jane if she would faint giving blood and she said no, but she might cry and maybe that's why she's crying. Also, regarding her tan, remember when she came into the office and was sunburned, she would be tan by now. I can't understand why Roger would leave Mona for Jane and never left her for Joan.
my upper middle class mother with a gazillion children had hired help - one for house and one for kids - and she did lots of the work along with them, because there was a lot to do - the point of the hired help was to help her!
oh, also, I think that Jane is so unbelievably conniving - I originally thought she'd go for Don. then Roger. then Don again. she's just throwing mud against the wall and seeing what sticks. I don't think she cares who she gets, as long it's a 'higher up'.
and Betty, why do you think she set up her friend and the young man from the stable? is it because she wants to have an affair herself and since she can't bring herself to, she can sort of play it out with someone else? or maybe she just wants to cause problems in her friend's marriage out of spite?
thoughts?
Rachel:
It's completely possible Freddie had PTSD called shell shock back in those days. To get to the situation of killing that many people... changes you. Which may have started him drinking heavily.
Freddie probably broke down, was put into the hospital and then, rather than sending him back to his unit (most of which may have gotten killed and actually did most of the killing of those 19 Germans), they put him into the Signal Corps. (A live hero is better than a dozen dead ones and he probably felt guilty about accepting the awards.)
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I thought it was interesting that Betty set up Arthur with Sarah Beth for a pre-affair lunch and then took her phone off the hook so neither could call to ask why she wasn't there. I suspect Betty was getting back at husbands in general. Apparently Raymond really was too good for Sarah Beth. Just as she said.
Next week's episode, "The Inheritance" probably refers to Betty's father being gravely ill (he hasn't been well for years) and her visit to him. Betty's father has, or at least, had a fair amount of money.
"Give a Chinaman a music lesson" = tinkling on china (a ceramic porcelain toilet). What a card!
That Roger would use Don's words to justify leaving Mona for Jane, who at best is a very, very weak reed was a huge surprise. IMHO, there is no way their relationship could last until his divorce was complete. If Jane thought the office was toxic before... I'll bet all the secretaries will be down on her now. It's one thing to have an office affair, it's quite another to break up a marriage.
Mona (Talia Balsam, John Slattery's wife) didn't look good at all in her scene at Don's office. Of course, a woman whose husband of 25 years just told her he's leaving her for his secretary probably wouldn't. She looked much better at the restaurant in "Three Sundays."
On another topic, in the photos for the next episode, there's a great one of Joan and the secretaries behind her with Hildy closest. The powers behind the thrones, so to speak.
In the other photo, Peggy's handing Pete a slice of cake at a party with presents. I wonder what the occasion is.
there was a couple good items of note here, one of the best episodes yet.
-joan's forshadowing telling roger someday he'll lose someone close to him
-for the second time we heard about bobby and the car, whatever it was he did i still wanna know
-a good line was don talking about suckering jimmy, "that was a real archibald whittman move"
-and i think betty is going to start missing don, not really having a life without him. she'll eventually give in
-i think don finds a kindred spirit in freddy, they're both generally a good smart person with a major flaw that drags them down. that's why he defends him instead of throwing him out, anaolgy intended
FreeWoman, I hope it's not your last for a while -- and I agree with you about Betty's response to Carla.
jalowe1957, excellent stuff! Reading the elevator comments in particular are really striking. Don's 'suicide is depressing' line jumps out even more than it did in the episode!
Also, hadn't even thought until reading your post about Marilyn's 'duality' that we've talked about regarding Mad Men's characters. We've discussed the Jackie/Marilyn issue, but Marilyn herself was also 'Norma Jean.' She's a bit of the 'self-made American,' like Don.
love these comments. especially the one about Joan's comment foreshadowing Roger's loss of his family. I think he probably would rather have been leaving Mona for Joan, but probably feels that he missed his opportunity with Joan. so Jane is the next best thing.
on another topic, when we were watching last night, and they had the previews, they showed Don waking up on the floor of a bedroom. I took it to be Betty''s childhood bedroom. they showed betty and Don speaking on the phone [possibly reconciling?] and then showed Betty speaking with her Dad. this made me think that he may have come with her to visit her parents and slept on the floor in her girlhood bedroom. BUT, my husband swore it was Peggy's bedroom. huh?
I must have missed Roger falling in love with Jane. When did that happen?? I thought he loved Joan. When Don said "get her out of my desk", I thought he meant that Jane told Joan he was at the hotel and Joan told Roger and he was ticked because he told ger not to tell. Anyone else get that impression? Or is he really in love with Jane.
I must have missed Roger falling in love with Jane. When did that happen?? I thought he loved Joan. When Don said "get her out of my desk", I thought he meant that Jane told Joan he was at the hotel and Joan told Roger and he was ticked because he told her not to tell. Anyone else get that impression? Or is he really in love with Jane.
Thanks, Lorantscan - Peggy as the book recipient makes sense, especially after remembering that Don visited her in the looney bin.
Duck always seemed like a jerk, but he has totally lost me since he dumped poor Chauncey in the street. Woof!
Freddy will be missed - if you think about all his advertsing comments - they were dead on and imaginative. He also saw the talent in both Peggy and Don. Poor guy...
Chris - can't figure out that Roger?Jane either. Like I posted before Jane is plain
This thread is way tooooo long. How can we start new topics and discuss each one?
"Desperate Housewives" was pretty good last night. And "Brothers and Sisters" looks OK though starting to grate on me a bit. Yes I watch and "Dexter". Taped them all and watched after watching MM twice. 4 of my favorite shows on in 1 night. Who thinks this up? Desp Housewives hasn't lost it's touch - yes it's mindless soap opera but MM still the BEST!
Chris - Jane went to Roger when she got fired by Joan, and he would get her job back and insinuated she would "show her appreciation somehow". AND Joan knew right away what would happen between Jane and Roger...When Jane showed up that Monday and Joan confronted her, Joan's last comment was something like, "There's no problem. Everything is perfectly clear."
as a pre-pubic catholic girl, one big shock of the news of marilyn's passing was the word "suicide" - then - "found dead in the nude" - whoooa - I thought she was of course a glamorous movie star but I was much more taken with Jackie - because jackie was a mother who was not depressed (like so many around me) she was always smiling and having fun with her kids - on horses, on water skis, boats, beaches, painting (like my mother and I did)
Betty set up Arthur and Sara Beth so they'd have the affair she knew she could have with him, but is too afraid to go through with. I think Betty will let Don back in the house because it will be more satisfying to be able to belittle him daily and make him suffer. I hated that Sal and Pete laughed at Freddie. Maybe a competitive agency will hire Freddie and bring the clients with him. Was that the first time Don called Sally, Salamander? I, too, have repeated, crab-duck, duck-crab. Too funny. Great observation, too, I forgot who said it, about how many people were caught on the couch this episode.
The look.... almost a double take... than Don gives Peggy that morning as they come into the office from the elevator and Peggy comments on the good fortune of not using the Platex-Marilyn Monroe ad shows that Don is blown away by Peggys professional attitude and thinking about whats good for SC...not sniveling about the death of Marilyn. He knows then that Peggy is destined to be promoted and will be a team player.
Midcenturymod: Those houseocats are available still at Sears also the real things are available on E-bay.
another little nugget after watching it again, when don puts freddy in the cab and asks him where he lives, freddy leans in to the cabbie and gives the address. and then, freddy being all drunk also gives the cabbie the apartment number.
i think at the end where don and roger are all sauced up and philosophising on life, roger giving don the old drinking buddy punch looked like a total ad lib. they look like they're trying not to laugh
Got to add my defense of Betty. Although I recognize her many, many faults, I can't seem to help pulling for her. I didn't watch the first season, so I am not influenced by "Rachel", but it seems so many people really like her that I worry Don and Betty will split up. I hope not because 1)I think JJ would leave the show at that point (what would the writers do with the character of Betty) and I think her and Don's relationship adds a lot to the show and 2) If this show is going to deal with growth and maturity of the characters (and I'm not sure what the end game is here) it would be nice to see Don come to terms with his past and having had such a screwed up family as a child salvage his one as an adult
I think we could have a pretty good argument about whether or not Don is an existentialist or a nihilist. The two concepts are fairly close in meaning, and I suspect we would bore everyone to death. But here is my take on the conversation between Don and Roger in the bar. While Don expresses his existentialist/nihilistic view of existence, Roger gets the following message: there is no meaning in existence and we're all gonna die...I might as well grab Jane on the way down. Mona ends up blaming Don for this leap, from Don's philosophic musings to the message Roger hears and the actions he takes in consequence.
Don is not judging Roger and the secy - he is mad that the secy is sh-t-disturbing in his private life. Tells him his daughter called and then buys him those shirts - no boundaries!
If Don and Betty divorce, they wont fire January Jones. Please, her and Don are the most fascinating, most complex characters on tv. Jones must be nominated for an emmy next year. Yes I will admit I am a Betty lover, but dont get me wrong I do believe some horrible stuff about her, but I mean really Don is just as worse, yet he is made into an f-ing saint here. But enough about that. I think if Don and Betty do get divorced it opens up a whole new story lines for them both. Will Don continue to have a philandering ways, even when he is rid of Betty? Will he truly be happy without her? Will he remarry somebody else, maybe a woman like Rachel and cheat on her?
Will Betty be happy without Don? Will Betty grow up "mentally" ?
Will she remarry and be happy? Will she in a more healthier envoirnment than her broken home? I mean there is alot to explore if they do get divorced. But right now I think Weiner and the writers are showing us what it would be like if they were indeed divorced. Clearly both are miserable without each other, even though Don says he isnt (which I think is total bullshit!) so right now I think its trial seperation, and hopefully next season we see something happen.
Freddie definitely has a medical condition - I would a seizure disorder because he seemed to be out of it when he was urinating his trousers and had a momentary lapse of memory just before he fell asleep.
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You're the only person who's agreed with me -- I concluded seizure early on in this thread.
.....Roger Sterling has lost his mind. Jane is 25 years his junior, and is in no way prepared to be any kind of asset, or security, or the million things that Mona is to Roger. Jane doesn't even LIKE him! I thought he was a schmuck before, now I think he has a mental disorder.
Let's see how fabulous an asset Jane is when Roger has his next heart attack. She is 20 years old, will probably want children, etc., and definitely wants to have fun now, not be saddled with a guy "with health problems," in his own words.
Mona is a GEM, and Roger is DAMNED lucky to have her. Why the hell would Roger throw all he has away for a freaking KID SECRETARY?
And say what you want about Jane's "hotness," but Jane is no Joan. Jane won't be Joan in ten years. I loved someone's idea about Joan going to work for the networks writing soap operas.
From her comment about loss to Roger, it's clear Joan has lost someone very important to her. Do we know Joan's situation? Her mother and father - dead or alive? Brothers and sisters? I have a vague recollection of her mentioning something about her mother once. Some people theorized Joan might have been married and lost a husband. We know she's been "offered a few" engagement rings.
She also mentioned how she hates food next to the bed because it reminds her of hospitals.
Marilyn's death couldn't have been worse timing for Joan. First, watching the job just slip through her fingers, being diminutized by the fiance who really doesn't "get" her and probably bores the crap out of her, going toe-to-toe with this upstart Jane and losing in a big way, Roger and Jane carrying on under her nose, then, BAM - someone she obviously identified with dying tragically.
Joan can't help but identify heavily and wonder about her own fate. Marilyn was 36. Joan is 31 or 32..... she is beginning to see the downhill side of the slope....
Like other women, I'm sure, Joan has been forcibly drawn into a very abrupt and nasty mid-life crisis.
By the way, I loved Carla in this episode. She is a classy woman.
.....MadMenSuze, I also agreed with you. Two people very close to me had the grand mal seizures their wholes lives. Also, a boss of mine suddenly developed epilepsy when he had a very small stroke. As I understand it, seizure disorders (of all types) are not really that rare, they can come or go, and can be caused by a whole host of things from injury or illness to stroke to hormone changes or tumors.
Thanks to McMere's insightful comments I spent have the night reading The Times of London online...but more to the point is McM's nailing Don Draper as the walking/talking example of existentialism (not nihilism as someone hair-splitingly suggested). It is manifested in all his actions.
On a frivolous side note: I would lose no time in firing whomever is the costume consultant on this television programme, unless those decisions are meant to make a point: such as Mona looking exactly like a frump who'd be replaced by a younger woman. As a collector of fashion magazines of the period I am convinced that no woman of the time, particularly one married to a stylish advertising executive, would have worn a dress with lace doilies appliqued to its neckline. It was grotesque. Betty Draper's closet full of "loaners" are at least 8 years behind the times, Peggy is dressed as if the year were 1952 not 62, etc etc. Quite shocking in a production whose values are otherwise pretty high.
Joan identifies with Marilyn Monroe, the sex symbol who was also trapped by her image. It's a fine line, using sexuality, and then being defined by it. Remember the last scene in episode 8 where Joan's shoulder is red cuz her bra strap's too tight? That comes from having big boobs, which need to be supported and managed with the right engineering. When the strap's too tight, it's a bad sign, affects physical well-being.
Joan's loss is also about the operations job, which she loved, and the foreshadowing of disappointment at her new fiance, who wants to keep her at home eating bon bons and watching soaps, instead of analyzing them.
One more point: if you're gonna end the episode with Marilyn Monroe's recording of I'm Through With Love (and that was an ideal way out of that particular episode) why suffocate the credits (and the music) with pitches for coming events? I was all set to bask in Marilyn's breathy rendition and the fact of it tying everything up in a neat bow-knot....
I think what Joan meant when she said Roger would lose someone he loves that she meant herself. Roger really does have deep feeling for Joan and she's engaged. Now that she'll find out about Jane, Joan will be disgusted and shut Roger out completely and utltimately lose Joan, the one he loves.
Does anything think Don will actually find himself intrigued (and eventually loving) Peggy? Think about it, he respects her work. Is an independent woman (like his other flings), comes from a simple background like he does and they share several deeply persoanl secrets.
I don't think Pete was so awful with regard to Freddie. After all, as Roger said, Freddie "crossed a line." They offered him the 6 months of rehab, which he could have taken, but I think Freddie himself realized he was at the final low point and he couldn't snap back. Pete's all about business, and peeing in your pants at the office and passing out doesn't cut it.
MadMenSuze - Thanks, I was sure it was "I'm Through with Love" but it didn't quite sound like Etta Jones (not James) singing. So you may be right about it being from the "Some Like It Hot" soundtrack. I think the Jones' version came out in '62.
Hey Toby - Actually, costuming is not a frivolous topic. There are many reasons, historical and phsychological, for costume choices. For example, Mona's navy blue lace doilies (in my opinion) represent a stable home whereas Jane's attire for that scene is chaotic and colorful. And those dresses Betty pulls out are correct for that time. If they were 8 years old, they would have longer and puffier skirts. Peggy is dressed that way for a reason; a girl growing into a woman. Her clothes are going from teeny bopper 50's to a chic, tighter fit for the 60's.
.....Hi Buffy (love that!)...... I agree that Roger has some feelings for Joan. My question I guess is what is that worth, knowing what we know now about him? Like my mother used to say, "There's no THERE, there." Joan should run far and fast away from this guy - he's demonstrated how destructive he is.
I also think it's worth pointing out that like Pete, Roger at the same time has no idea how he has, and is, completely humiliating Joan. (Or maybe he does, and it's deliberate - that's debatable, but would tie in with his apparent sadistic tendencies.)
Anyone who has managed an office will recognize how devastating to Joan's image, authority and professional esteem it was for Sterling to countermand Jane's firing.
He is flaunting his attraction to Jane, who has openly defied Joan. I can't think of a worse combination to have to endure on a daily basis.
Throw in the feelings that Joan does or did have for Sterling, the hurt, betrayal, anger and humiliation she must be feeling, and I am surprised she isn't having a complete breakdown.
Dry Manhattan - exactly! You're surprised Joan isn't having a complete breakdown - anger, humiliation - exactly why Roger is/has now lost her. She'll never have anything to do with him again. He'll decide in retrospect that he did indeed love her. Now he'll be without Joan and without Jane and without Mona and possibly will also lose his daughter Margaret - he'll have lost everyone and that brings us back to Joan's original comment about losing someone you love. He's come full circle.
So many folks are hard on Betty for her supposed lack of maternal skills. I don't see where that comes from. She's there for those kids, day in and out, never yells, and is patient (except the time she wanted Don to beat their son, but that was a reasoned disciplinary request, she didn't beat him herself out of anger in the moment). It's hard to be the perfect little mommy presence all the time. I had a rough Sunday with my rebellious, mouthy 15 year old and at one point vaguely recall threatening to send him to military school... But I tucked him in at night with a kiss. Remember Betty tells the kids to go to bed and she'll tuck them in? She's not the one who stepped out.
With my beloved Rachel gone this season, Don Draper has become the most fascinating character on Mad Men this season! He's an adulterer but I've liked all the women (that we viewers have been shown) he's cheated with. It's wonderful watching a man attracted to brunette, beautiful, brainy and powerful women!! For Don, power really is an aphrodisiac! Fabulous!
Then there's his mentoring of Peggy. He sees that she's hard-working, ambitious and savvy, much like himself. She wasn't born rich and has had to work hard, maybe even extra hard, because of looks-ism and sexism. And Don recognized this and rewards her. Fantastic!
There's intangibles, like, Don's respect toward people of color. That was outlined in the first scene of the first episode that he's very much a humanist. Don also hates seeing someone kicked when they're down. Witness how incensed he was at the cracks made about Freddy and how he gave Lame Duck a second chance, though Duck's turning out to be an ingrate! Plus, he's not a shit disturber, all up in other folks' business.
Yet, the most fascinating thing about Don is his relationship with his children! He's genuinely affectinate to them, full of hugs. He refused to hit his son, knowing how bad that made him feel when he was a kid. He seemed engaged in what they did, like wanting to watch Sally's ballet twirls. He's not riding their back for bullshit petty reasons!
So Don Draper's conflicted, complex, complicated...and remains sexy while doing so!
I'm with the Betty defenders. I was shocked by all the hostile comments aimed at her. The people who are convinced that she's a selfish, terrible mother should go back and watch Season 1; her increasing lack of interest in and compassion for her children has been paralleled by her descent into depression.
The thing that has impressed me most about MM is that there are no one-dimensional characters (and that includes Betty). No one is clearly good or bad. The character development has been so gradual and deliberate - most t.v. show characters are obvious and predictable. MM is a VERY satisfying exception to the general rule.
Please correct me here, but I always thought that when Dick and the real Don were under enemy fire in the fox hole last year, that as Dick stood up and Don said to him that he had pissed himself, it was in fact gasoline on his pants, and as Dick lit a cigarette he dropped the lighter and that’s when Don was blown up and burned beyond recognition.
I wonder if one reason Don felt so loyal to Freddie was because he met Freddie while out drinking one night and Freddie brought him into SC. Even more than now, getting a job was all about networking.
Juliemadmenfan:
Tilden Katz is the name of Rachel Menken's husband. Don and Rachel had an affair last season that ended quite abruptly.
Anybody: What did Roger say to Don at the bar before he playfully punched him in the arm? I watched and listened twice and still can't make out what he said.
Regarding Mona's dress, I agree that it was a strange design but I don't think the lace doilies made her look frumpy.
They weren't actually lace. The brilliant thing about that dress is that the doilies were a print! It's a totally modern take on what might usually be a fussy design.
At first I wasn't understanding the sheer sleeves, but then I realized that it was August (MM died on August 5, 1962). I feel like that dress was very sophisticated. It wouldn't be unlike an affluent woman who wears Marni or Dries van Noten dresses today.
I would like to say that I like Betty. I see my mom in her and kind of understand her. She was raised with wthe Cinderella fairy tale of "happily ever after." She is lonely in her marriage and wants validation and companionship from her husband. I think she would be a better mother if she wasn't a frustrated woman. My mom was sad and lonely and felt stuck, and my dad catted around and did as he pleased. Unfortunately, the kids were ignored or frustrations were taken out on us. This certainly doesn't make it right by any stretch, but I wish Don were more engaged in his relationship with Betty.
Right on, Jessica! (Regarding Betty) She is home almost 24/7 with her kids and has an excellent nanny for times when she is away. Sure, she is moody, but when the kids are around she tries to hold it together. Kids are resilient and they are seeing that life is not happy happy happy everyday.
I think Betty is a very good mother ... even to Bobby...she doesnt try to be his buddy like Moms today do. She shows that there are cosequences to breaking the Hi Fi or knocking over his milk. And she and Sally do lots of things together but she doesnt let Sally call the shots. Those kids are lucky to have a stay at home Mom who cares what they are doing and not just taking the easy route with them. I remember my own mom saying "Life is not like romper room!"
Tilden Katz is Rachael Menkin's new husband...VISAN I agree with everything you said in your latest post....does anyone remember the comment Roger makes to Don over drinks...when's he's dipping into Don's business;
Roger : Did you know that BBDO hired a colored kid...what do you think about that>
Don: I think I'd hate to be hat kid...
I truly believe that their time frame for this occurance in the advertising industry is way, way offf. .. merely because my cousin was the first black MBA BBD&O hired and that wasn't til the very early 70s....
Mr G - actually, Dick (now Don) pissed himself out of fear. If it were gasoline, he would have been fried. But Thanks to you, it helps show another point of why Don sympathizes with Freddy - they both pissed themselves - embarrassing moments - and it led to life changing events.
Jimmy is the scumbag, the garbage. He's the one that picks and chooses when he gets pissed off about his wife's flings. When it suits HIM, when it's good for his career, then she can spread her legs. But now that Don is schtupping his wife, Jimmy decides to be offended. Eff that, what a slimebucket. And to top it all off by tipping her off is the worst. Turn in your man-card, you little twit. I would have knocked his block off too.
Don is a jackass for NOT confessing to the wife, and begging her forgiveness. She's rather needy, but what woman isn't ? She's so very gorgeous, so very feminine (OK, i want her myself), he couldn't do better. EXCEPT for the fact that she's very dosconnected with her kids. Not a good mother. Typical for that time period, but it's not like Don gives a crap about THAT. What DOES he care about ?
Madmensuze and Etienne: Yes, Marilyn sang "I'm through with love" in "Some Like it Hot" (my all-time favorite comedy). I'm pretty sure it's her voice because she sang in other movies and the voice is the same in those.
And I'm very surprised that someone knows there is a singer Etta Jones, along with Etta James. Both great singers.
Step, Squish, Step, Squish. That is Freddie walking out of the office.
Great posts, and thanks for the book title that Betty was reading. Does everyone have a huge HD TV?
I noticed all the main characters lying on the couches. I was shocked at the sight of them in a prone position. Was that symbolism for the death of MM?
I also noticed that there was speculation as to why MM died. It was her own fault, or that society did this to the fragile.
I agree with Dry Martini in that Don's Dick seems to be seeping out. This will continue I bet.
I also agree with lorantscan regarding the book Don sent. It went to Peggy.
The "colored people" are coming to the forefront in the show. "Hiding in plain sight." They are privy to the private lives of their employers, more so than the friends and family. And they have the sense to keep the boundary.
Then Jane wants to insert herself into part of Don's secret. She relishes that she has this power, and shows him so by handing him the shirts. I guess she must of told Roger, Don's secret, and that was the rest of her undoing. She knew too much about him.
Peggy got promoted from a death of a career, so did Don. He wants Peggy to run with it. Pete takes the credit.
Now, Betty; I finally see how crucial it is for her to have appearances. She sets her friend up for the affair with Arthur so she won't be the only wife with problems in the "hood". How petty! She IS horribly depressed. I see Betty in me at the time my marriage was failing. I didn't think I looked like that or acted like that, but it feels like I was, now.
I used to go to the gym every morning, now, I don't go on Mondays because I need (yes, NEED) to read all of the posts, so I may put in my 2 cents.
I will be deprived when the season ends.
Poor Freddie. He will "off" himself. He isn't like Don, he can't see himself as a different person.
The drinking game of doing a shot every time a MadMan drinks would be my undoing.
.....Buffy, a little part of me is dismayed that Joan is taking the introspective sad route on all this, instead of confronting Roger about his grossly undermining her, and acting like a fool with a poptart more than half his age.
Maybe Joan knows she'll be a housewife soon, so isn't bothering, but I never pictured Joan laying down for all of this....
Anyone else in real life would likely have found another office to manage, or at least begin looking for a way out of the hole.
I don't think Joan knows WHAT she wants at this point. None if it is looking terribly appetizing to her, I'd bet.
GREAT posts on this thread by the way - really enjoying them all .... lots of new screen names.
In the first season they show Don taking shirts out of his drawer and changing right there in the office because he is been out all night with Midge so I don't know why his secretary is buying shirts for him
After reading much of this thread, I have a few comments. Don and Peggy gravitate towards one another b/c they are both very closed, emotionally cut off people able to compartmentalize their lives. This is why denial comes so easily to each of them; they believe things did not happen. Don would rather sacrifice his marriage so that he doesn't have to "feel". To feel would destroy the construct of his life. But, that having been said, he is not an ogre, he has a code of ethics, just not morals.
Betty, she sent the guy to have lunch with her friend, b/c she too does not want to talk about or deal with what is happening to here. She sent the guy so she would not have to explain to the friend why she didnt want to go. It was a distraction and a manipulation. She took the phone of the hook so as not to have to receive a call from her friend wondering where she is.
Freddie, he is not going to kill himself. He will either, clean himself up and plug back in or he will drink himself to death. Could go either way, he is pretty far along in his alcoholism, getting clean may prove to be more than he can handle.
Marilyn Monroe's death is simply a demarcation point in history. It is foreshadowing of events to come; the beginning of the end if you will. Next comes the assasination of JFK. Likely next season if 2 year leaps are to be the norm. Next, we will transition from Hip to Hippies, but that is not until 65-67 where that crossover happens.
Jane, she is in over her head. She doesnt want this sick old man, she just wanted a little power and control over her life; remember she is now at the wise old age of 20 and no longer needs a mother.
Joan, she is far to modern and self-possesed, yet shackled by the times she lives in. Her marriage will either not happen or not work. She wants to work, and if she plays strategically, she will work her way into some career path beyond Admin. But, she has years of heart ache to live first.
Visan, JimK, et al.: I realized after I posted last night that Archibal Whitman would be Don's bio dad and not his stepdad. I wish there was an "edit your post" option for after you've posted and you want to fix a mistake!
I have to say that I understand all the secretaries who were crying over Marilyn. It's a little silly, but I think it's an honest reaction for people who connect with a celebrity. Certain celebrities are public, larger-than-life figures and in a way you think you know them, so when one of them dies it's like you've lost someone you know. If it's a celebrity that you are a fan of, it's almost like you've lost a friend (not a close one obviously) or someone you look up to. When John Ritter died unexpectedly, I felt horrible for his family and was bummed about it for several days.
Beyond the badass move of setting up her friend for an affair with stableboy (which I find pretty intriguing), I don't see any reason to react negatively to Betty. She just found out that her husband cheated on her, she's COMPLETELY DEPRESSED, and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do from there. She's in a pit of despair and not able to deal with her regular responsibilities (kids, home) - I have depression in my family, and I know how debilitating it can be. Thank goodness she has Carla, and hopefully she'll be able to get out of her depression soon.
About Joan - I believed she dumped Roger and has absolutely no romantic feelings left for him. Remember last season when they were in the hotel and she was talking about how she loved her single life? He tried to get her to have her own place and "play house" but she refused. Joan thought of this as a fling. She even mentioned he would want a new girl - "I hear the 1961 models are coming out soon." When Roger then had the heart attack and she went in to do all the telegrams, Cooper told her not to waste her youth, ie, spending time with Roger...Yes, she was sad when he got the heart attack, but I believe she took Cooper's advice, stopped wasting her youth and moved right along to hunting for a husband.
Re: Bette's depression: She is, I guess, I don't think clinicaly however, but rather situationally. I think she questioning everything; meaning, her life is not rolling out as it was expected to. Marriage, kids, housewife in the suburbs, etc. She is nearing thirty and as her friend discovered, is bored. She effectively is living alone. Don is never "there"; not often physically, but in no way is he there for her emotionally. It is "crazy-making" to have a partner who denies everything and refuses to discuss feelings. And intuitively Bette knows this, and it is coming to her consiously now.. THAT is what seeing Jimi's UTZ commercial was about.. that, she is not crazy, but everyone around her is denying everthing, and making her question her own sanity. thus the shrink, who is useless and freudian.
I don't understand that if all these Betty defenders are insisting that she has some moral authority that it's "OK" for her to set up friends to have an affair. And it's also "OK" for her to stir shit in someone's else's marriage because she's depressed? WTF?
That's some twisted shit! She's wackadoo!
If I'm the only person on this forum to call out SAB's ridiculousness, so be it! She has no more "higher ground" to stand on than any of the other characters!!
Can we go over the Roger and Don conversation about Don't going home? I'd like to be sure I understood correctly. Also, (because of the sound issue) I didn't hear how much info Don gave to Jane on his situation with Betty.
I also thought that it was gasoline that caused the explosion and not Dick wetting his pants.
The shirts: could it be as simple as the speach that Joan gave to a new sec'y in season one, "...have a bottle of something, draper drinks rye. as well as a needle and thread and some band-aids...etc." Was she just trying to be helpful and ingratiate herself at the same time?.. I dont know if she had inside info from Roger, b/c I dont think Roger knew what was up yet or not.. but then again.. that is possible too. as for them coming from Menkins.. they probably had some trade. or it was on her way to work, or who knows.
Joan might have suggested that Roger get another, younger girlfriend and that he and Joan would break up eventually, but that didn't stop her from having real feelings for Roger. She was devastated by Roger's heart attack. She's irritated by his current behavior, however.
As for the shirts, Don did this more last season, but the shirts are kept in a drawer in his office for when he doesn't have a chance to go home and change (i.e. he was out tomcatting with a mistress). Jane went over the line with the shirts, acting like she understands his current situation and expects him to be having more nights out with women (maybe her) since he's separated.
Visan - I don't think it's morally "okay" for Betty to set her friends up for infidelity. I just think it's intriguing. I think she feels betrayed by Don and wants to test her friends to see if everyone in her world will be unfaithful. It's perverse and twisted, just like many of the things characters do on this show. :)
What I meant about the explosion...gasoline indeed was in the foxhole for some reason - maybe the Real Don spilled it as he was jumping into the foxhole - so it was there. But because Dick brushed his pants with his lighter in hand, he did not catch on fire, so I think he really wet himself. However, the lighter dropped on the ground, igniting the trail of gasoline, leading to the fuel tank as Real Don was trying to douse the firey trail with dirt.
Like an earlier poster said, one of the most revealing thing to me in last night’s episode was Don’s telling Roger that he was “relieved” that his marriage was in the state that it’s in. At first this is surprising, given his posture in the closing shot of the last episode (slumped in a chair, alone, dismayed that ‘it’ had come to this) and his waking up in a lonely hotel room at the beginning of last night’s show. But it occurred to me—and I’d be interested to know what others think—that Don, given his personality, the power dynamics in his marriage, the time period, etc., could have easily just gone back home if he had really wanted to. What’s to stop him from saying, “Betty, I’m sorry that you’ve got these suspicions about me, but this is my house and these are my kids. We can work on this together or you can leave (which, of course, she can’t), but I’m not going anywhere.” That he leaves with little, if any argument (his line last night was something to the effect: ‘I’m not going to argue with someone who’s made up her mind’, meaning, in Don’s manipulating way, ‘I’m not going to argue’—because he’s not interested in winning that argument!), together with what he told Roger, now make me think he prefers, at least for the most part, being separated.
OMG! We have to break out the team rachel and team Betty shirts. I have know doubt Rachel is coming back. All hell is going to break loose on this blog. Visan: you drive me crazy but I luv your humor you are one funny lady.
First thing, remember after Roger's heart attack, he was in the hospital crying like a baby on Mona's bosom? I was thinking what an idiot. After boning Joan and those girls in his office, he cries on his wife. She was there to rehabilitate him and bring him back into "working order". You think one would have some gratitude. What is some 20 year-old girl going to do that your faithful wife hasn't. What about when you and the girl move in and think your are going to be all happy??
You know what happens, life happens. And you are there, with someone you think it would be so great with, and stress happens and you are cheating again. These people are trapped into the flawed logic that "the grass is always greener".
Real people take their vows seriously and think beyond the level of the brain-stem. Giving into sexual urges like a dog in heat. For shame, Roger!
DON & ROGER'S CONVERSATION: Don was saying that it was a relief that his marriage might end. It is exhausting living a double life, and all in all, he would just rather live life (remember the beat-nik girlfriend in the villiage) then try to live up to the life that is expected, i.e. marriage, family, suburbs. Bette wants more than he is able to give. Don is weak, he does what is expected, he is expected to be the happy family man, he is. A woman wants to sleep with him he does. His boss wants to get drunk, he does. Don is a lost little boy; lost in relationships...he would rather bale and say it never happened then stay and sort things out.
About the shirts ... it might mean nothing as noted by Tara. There are so many nuances in this story line that sometimes I think some must be red herrings just to make you think there's something big to it and ultimately it leads to nowhere. Yet, others do actually come back into the story line. I think that's part of what's so addicitve about this show. It leaves you just a little bit uncomfortably off balance and wondering...and that's why we come back the next week.
Given the lack of emotional sophistication of these men, after 25 years, their wives b/come their mothers, and they need to date 20 yr old girls who are equal to their maturity.
Susanne, chopin47 & Chesterton--I agree with your comments on Marilyn Monroe. My upbringing was most similiar to Peggy--pre-Vatican II Catholic. Hollywood women like MM and Jane Mansfield were considered--for lack of a better word--skanks. Not idolized. Like I posted earlier, there was shock at her early death but no tears, nothing even close to Princess Diane. It was years later that we learned about her involvement with the Kennedys. I agree with the person who posted earlier that the death of MM was used as a historical point of reference, and a precursor to the death of President Kennedy--which was the most memorable event in my young life at the time! Who can forget the wall to wall TV coverage, unheard of at the time. But I digress....
.....boop, you are right about Jane. It was her usual GALL (oh, callow youth) to be so presumptuous and invade her boss' privacy. It's not like they've worked together for years - she's new! If I were Draper, I think I would very much resent that, and find a way to get her off the desk anyway.
Very Visan, Self-absorbed Betty is passing along what Unfunny did to her. He crossed the line of acceptability by involving her and the kids, and I think Betty's former values about right and wrong and fidelity are being stretched and bent.
About Arthur and Sara Beth, SAB probably figures, hell, they're not married, so why not? Someone should be having fun.
I'm not defending Teflon Man, or putting the blame on Unfunny, but he had to know how devastated SAB and the children would be. No wonder Draper decked him, and he deserved it.
....VV....and good point about the higher ground.... if she's smart, she'll pull herself together and make the most of what she does have. Her position could be a LOT worse.
Dry M - Sara Beth is a long-time married. She talks about her husband Raymond and how her shrink has diagnosed her as "bored". I guess Betty thinks Arthur will the cure for her boredom and remove the temptation to cheat with Arthur as well.
Newbie poster here, have left a few comments on other threads.
DD is a complex character for sure...at first, I hated him, then was alternately rooting for and disgusted by him. One thing that keeps bothering me is that although he seems to have genuine kindness for his children occasionally, he is still not nurturing his relationship with Betty. It's difficult for me to think of DD as a "good father" (as some posters insist) when he disrespects their mother. The best thing he could give Bobby & Sally is a good example of what a man can be - sadly, he's not capable of that, at least not yet (I'm holding out some hope that DD can redeem himself eventually - but I don't think that will happen). I hope he is starting to see that his actions have consequences for his children, too. They are starting to have to "pick up the tab" for his dysfunction - though I realize people were not psychologically aware then as they can be now, and if someone said this to him, he would just give his stoic stare and say "I don't know what you're talking about, you're the one with a problem."
Also, one item regarding "authenticity" - for as much as these people drink morning, noon, & night, shouldn't they be acting drunker? They are constantly throwing back the sauce, yet don't seem to be physically affected much! I know when I have a few stiff ones, I start speaking slower or stumbling into walls like Petra! The only indication of I've really seen of alcohol effects were last night when they seemed a little giggly going into the casino. They never seem to have hangovers, either. Maybe it's just another way that Don always stays in control...although there are chinks in the armor that are getting harder to hide.
I like to tell folks, this show can be such a downer. And if you, I, we, us don't laugh at the nutty behavior of some of these characters, this forum can become quite cloudy!
That's how the nicknames came about! Still trying to get a good one for Peggy....Hmmm....Thoughts?
Betts is a person in pain, not because of her own doing. It really sucks when someone you devoted your life to and were supposed to be "happily ever after" with is not the person you thought they were.
Sorry for clogging the posts.
Visan, thanks for the nod to betty boop. I was called that thru out my life. I hated it.
Now I embrace it. The comments of "my mom's name is B, or my aunt's name is B", got very old for me.
One must note that Betty actually got dressed and primped to go to the stables. She is THAT motivated to see someone fall. That is why she was so "un-sad". She had a big reason to feel good (at someone else's expense).
Misery loves company.
BTW, I love Betty's outfit when she rides. She is impeccable!!!!!!!!!
LassLaura - that's true, I've seen the aspirins and Alka Seltzer a couple of times. My hangovers don't seem to be remedied by those things, maybe I should lay off the 151 Rum ;)
.....boop, and this isn't just a question for you, it's a question for everyone who takes exception to anyone else's posts or opinions.
I don't understand this concept of clogging the thread. While I think it's nice sometimes to just lurk and make room for other voices, isn't this a case of "the more the merrier?"
People get all pissy over long-winded posts, but isn't that the point of a public forum? I love reading them, if the person is saying something interesting and literate. I salaam the amazing brains on this thing. In my case, it takes me a long, winding road to distill to my point, and I'm working on that.
I've touched on many other forums of all kinds, and have concluded this one is kind of unique in that almost everyone on here is really intelligent, interesting, kind and/or funny. I would say I wish this forum was slightly more humorous, but that's my big thing. More humor, less negative anything.
The great thing about the icons is, if you know that person is boring or irritating, you can skip right over it. Everyone is here in good faith, I doubt anyone is intentionally being boring or irritating, so what's the big deal?
And the whole snarky objection thing about various opinions - they are opinions, not The Bible. Friendly written sparring should be encouraged, shouldn't it?
Sorry in advance for whatever label is going to be put on me for writing this, but it's kind of been bugging me.
I thought getting more traffic and voices on here was the whole point. (Call me Nutz.)
Dry,
Re: >I don't understand this concept of clogging the thread. While I think it's nice sometimes to just lurk and make room for other voices, isn't this a case of "the more the merrier?"
TOTALLY, but some have problems reading?
I have poor self esteem?
I did lurk this season, and last for a bit, but my mouth/brain thought better of that.
I am so much a fan of this show, I can't help myself.
I do try to limit myself because I don't want to be a blow hard, or a narcissist and conntrol these here posts.
.....boop, STOP! I love your posts and you have more than plenty to say. It wouldn't be the same without you, or anyone else on here, for that matter. All you lurkers, get out here!
For the record, even the ones that aren't quite as readable still have great thoughts and ideas - it just takes more effort to understand, and I don't skip those either.
There is room for everyone, and if someone gets a little wordy, well, big deal, as long as the attitude and intention is right.
One of the reasons I stick to one icon is that I want people to know me, and that I'm not really a blow-hard or control freak, just that I love to talk (write). I talk fast, I write fast (sometimes too fast), I love to poke big fun, and I love making friends.
Also, I'm a Gemini, so I'm writing for two!!
Anyway, sorry if I'm clogging or digressing - maybe I should call this post "me me me!" Ha.
I tried to read everything but I didn't notice anyone mention the possible connection to the newspaper headline reading, "MM Commits Suicide" to a future MadMen(MM) suicide.
I had the sound off when the show opened because I was on the phone and I was making the connection to a MadMan, not Marilyn Monroe right away. Did anyone else think that?
Lots of great posts. Yes, Betty is showing her true colors now! How manipulative!
Roger and Jane? I think Roger is a Silver Fox, but I'm 40- Who's your daddy, Jane?! :D
Is Betty and/or January Jones pregnant? I noticed very few shots of her belly ... and sometimes she did look pregnant. Her belly was concealed in some shots ... as if to block the view purposefully.
I remember when Karen Carpenter died. That was shocking and sad too. We heard about it in the morning and all the radio stations played Carpenters music all day. We were listening all day while working, and just remembering.
Its interesting to observe that Don has alot of compassion and sense of fairness for other people but not for his wife and family. He tries to help his co-workers, but to his distressed wife he can only say ' what is it you want Betty?Then he turns his back on her and walks out. Not even attempting a re-conciliation. Its clear to me now that he does not love his wife.
What was just as disturbing was the cold way Don treated his younger brother in season 1. The brother clearly loved him, yet Don refused to acknowledge he knew him. Don was the cause of his brothers sucide. I don't think he'll be able to destroy Betty though. At least I hope not. Don is an empty suit.
I agree with some of the previous posts that I just got a chance to read. Betty was indeed being manipulative. We do not know her motive though. And was what she did so horribly wrong? It is not like she set up the death of Marilyn...
Maybe she has an 'interesting experiment' going on of her own. She isn't holding anyone at gunpoint and telling them to "do it"! Perhaps she is just seeing how human nature works, testing the boundaries of marriage and desire. Is it really that easy to stray? We shall see what happens with Sara Beth and Pony-boy.
As for Joan, something is amiss with her this season for sure, hopefully they will reveal a little more soon.
I finally got to watch an episode during it's real time air date!!! Woohoo!!! Hurricane Ike's power drain put a damper on all things electricity based.
Question: Did Betty's set-up of the affair have to do with revenge? Her friend's comments during the dress-borrowing scene indicate that Betty may see Don in her friend: the friend is bored with her "perfect" husband. The fact that Betty purposely set up a way for the afffair may mean that she has plans to destroy her friend (by pulling a Jimmy Barrett type reveal to the friend's husband) and then Betty can feel vindicated since she cannot rake Don over the coals without burning herself.
Also, Roger's daughter, Margaret, will probably not be too hip on the idea of her father divorcing Mona to marry Jane since Jane is only slightly older than Margaret. Roger's comment to Don (in the bar) was that the reason for marriage was children, that the reason why for sticking in a marriage was for the sake of the kids. Now that Margaret is old enough to be married herself, Roger no longer has a reason to stay married to Mona. What Roger hasn't calculated is losing his daughter. That seems to be at least part of Joan's comment to him about someday knowing what it feels like to lose someone you love. Add in the loss of Mona, and Roger may just learn how shallow his life can be since Jane (a younger version of Joan?) will not be able to be a "new" Mona. Just think about what Roger's life would be like if he marries Jane and she ends up pregnant. Jane is much more "street-smart" and would know about Roger's wandering penis. She knew enough NOT to play Joan's game of giving the milk away for free. Her traffic light color-block dress sort of screamed her "Go, Slow Down, Stop" approach with Roger. Her tearful "princess" act when Mona came out of Don's office compared to her flashing skin act with the office frat boys in an earlier episode means that Jane is quite aware of how to play the game.
Another thing. Don is loyal, but his loyalty seems to be directed towards talent, not the traditional things like family, home, marriage, etc. It partially explains why he feels nothing with respect to his affairs--either towards the women he sleeps with or Betty. His own childhood may have caused him to view tradional things as unstable and therefore not worry of loyalty. So he defends those things that have brought him a sense of safety or escape. Peggy is a non-traditional female even though her clothes suggest otherwise. She is very much a child (her "I love Freddie" comment), but she also thinks outside the box (her analysis of MM's death and the impact it could have had on Sterling-Cooper vs. all of the other females in the office). So Don is loyal to Peggy, but only to a point. Freddie is also quite childlike, untouched by the world. (The MM subplot of the storyline seemed to serve as an obvious way to highlight the childish quality of various characters.) Contrary to his traditional clothing, Freddie also isn't the "man in the gray flannel suit" (Jimmy's comment) who plays it safe--he's been at the Sterling-Cooper agency since Roger's father was the headliner, killed enemy soldiers, and recognizes talent (Peggy). So Don can be loyal to Freddie, but only to a point. Don, whose son correctly pointed out a few episodes ago that Don needs a new daddy, is very non-traditional in that the ideas of "family" and "home" and "marriage" provide him with a framework to operate, not a sense of joy. His childhood was devoid of joy, so he may be subconsiously seeking a return to some sort of "ideal" about childhood. The hobo from last season suggested a non-traditional path, and in his own way, Don is following that path. In addition, Roger suggested that Don remember what it was about Betty that first caught his eye, but it would seem that Don didn't really love Betty even then. She was a means to an end, a game piece that he had to have because "tradition" required he have the right kind of wife, but Don has habitually resisted worshipping tradition. He obeyed its rules early on in his life, but he seems to see that doing so only gave him a gilded cage. The world's rules are destroying him. (Another MM allusion?)
The blood drive. Blood is life, yet all of these characters are like walking zombies who go through the motions of living without actually living. They have assumptions about what real life is supposed to be (Pete's and Trudy's previous conversation about "what's all this for?" with respect to the apartment and lifestyle if there are no kids really stands out as an obvious example). The mid 60s showed that the those assumptions weren't the whole answer, and JFK's death will solidify that when Camelot is destroyed.
The fairy tale is about to end without a happily ever after.
.....niccicola, your post about Draper feeling so bad, yet saying he is relieved made me realize something....you're right that it doesn't quite add up.
I think Draper might be confused.....I don't think Draper realizes that maybe it's not the marriage and family life that is such a burden. It's trying to do all that and lead the double life. Maybe.
How interesting is Betty's reaction to Don's cheating?
Instead of drinking, or taking pills, or eating, or having a get even affair, or cutting the left arm off of every one of Don's suits like you might expect, the writers in their infinite wisdom do something much more intriging instead:
She let's herself go.
She uses menial housework in order to find some sense of accomplishment. Because a freezer can't reject you.
Then, she manipulates the two riding buddies into a meeting hoping it would lead them into something more. Very passive aggressive.
I love it!
Mad Men is a great show, although I am not sure I understand the title.
I am glad to see that the posters here have at least some sympathy for DD. Oftentimes, married men committing adultery are vilified. Don's character is closer to reality. Men in his situation are usually racked by guilt and ambivalence, just as he is. Women usually believe that it should be so easy for married men to resist the temptation of another woman. Women just don't really understand the dynamics. Don doesn't want to hurt his wife and children, but he feels an emptiness that only illicit sex can fill up. Sadly, it is only a temporary fix. And Betty doesn't understand him or men in general, at all.
She will probably learn a great deal from her friend.
LassLaura: The book Don was sending in the first episode this season was Frank O'Hara's Meditations in an Emergency. I would guess that it would be Midge to whom he was sending it; she was bohemian, and O'Hara was one of the poets rather admired by them. I think he was fond of her, but realized she was really in love with someone else.
I think Duck's had a petit mal seizure. See how unresponsive he was and how he became incontinent? To my knowledge, that's what happens during a petit mal seizure.
Whoops...I meant Freddie.
.......Hi Clayton, excuse me for asking, but is 10:55 pm EST the correct time for your Open Thread?
It's 7:23 pm PST here...so shouldn't your Open Thread say 10:23 pm EST?
Thanks (sorry! carry on!).
.....and shouldn't my last entry say 10:27 pm EST? now it's an hour off......
I dunno Suze Freddie had been drinking
My time stamps look ok
And why is October 5, 2008 under the OP's name?
I'm glad to see Betty goin' after the drawer like it's an old squeaky chair!
.....MadMenSuze.....that's the expiration date of the thread. The thread will stay on top of all other threads until that date and time...
Okay, I see why he might have put that time on there....
However, the time label on my post is still wrong.
Who is the boxer? Floyd? (I don't follow the sport...). Why was Jimmy there? Just poetic license? I love hearing Freddy's history from WWII. Makes me appreciate him a lot more.
I like the parallel - Dick pissed his pants and got a new identity. Freddy did the same and lost his.
I am an R.N. that worked on the Red Cross Blood Mobile for many years. Don is right, many people [not just women] faint.Sometimes they go out completly and do become incontinent.That happens while they are giving blood not later so not sure what the whole thing with Freddie was about but I assume he gave blood.
Ah, there's the Pete I've always hated.
must correct above comment, a person can still pass out later and become incontinent, but not in the situation Freddy was in. I watch this during central time and didn't get started till late so I have some catching up to do. I apologize if everything I just said makes no scenes later. Boy is Betty ever depressed. Classic.
Cookie dough is my FAVORITE food! Betty is bringing those kids up right!
Does anyone else think that Pete looks like Pee Wee Herman? It just hit me with his last scene...
OMG! Roger! Jane! Jane! Roger! Schmuck - Slut - Slut - Schmuck.
Pee Wee - LOL! You're right!
The Floyd reference could be Floyd Patterson
Floyd is Floyd Patterson, heavyweight champion of the world at that time. After Jimmy gets up, he asks the champ how he did.
Whoa! I was dumbfounded and completely entranced by this week's episode.
I loved the look on Don's face when he got the shopping bag of shirts from Menkin's.
One question: When Mona shouted, "you can talk to Margaret!" Whom did she mean? I had the idea that Jane moved her way up horizontally to Roger's heart...
I guess now we know why Jane was dressed so conservatively...Now that she hooked into Roger, she only shows skin for him. Speak about 'hide in plain sight'.
Yeah--I was confused about the Margaret comment too.
Yes Floyd Patterson lost the title to Sony Liston the following month September 1962.
Margaret is Roger's daughter.
I thought it was interesting that the African-American elevator worker - the guy they usually say one word to then ignore and never treat as a peer - was the one to say "some people hide in plain sight."
I love how the actress who plays Carla portrays her conflict of having to be a doting housewife, all the while silently acknowledging that there is chaos in the Draper household. I remember a few episodes back when Don offers her a ride home, she wants no part of the Draper's drama to come to her private life. I totally understand that one, sister!
Meanwhile, I don't really get why Bets would skip out on the lunch date. Had she wanted to give her friend the pleasure of seeking excitement through an affair? Why is she staying at home then?
Love Joan and Sterling talking about Marilyn, and their comparisons. Obviously they have set her up as a Marilyn archetype.
Who is Margaret? I thought that was Roger's daughter's name. What did Mona mean by that. Roger in love with his secretary, Jane? I thought that was Don's secretary.
Martini Up: you are so right. pete does look like pee wee herman. i have thought all this time he looked like someone but couldnt put my finger on it. so, did don fire jane because roger seemed to get friendly with her after mona left by putting his hand on her shoulder or because she didnt stop mona from barging in his office? do you think that the news about marilyn monroe's suicide is leading into freddy committing suicide? he did say if he doesnt go to work on monday, what am i? just a thought.
Typo. In my last comment, housewife=housekeeper.
Did anyone love the expression that Sal is giving when he sizes up the overfull glass that Freddy hands him?
I love love love watching Betty defrost the fridge using a bowl of hot water, and then cutting drawer liner papers--- reminds me of my childhood, watching my mother do her kitchen upkeep.
I imagine Margaret will be Mona's lawyer. As to Jane...I mentioned in a previous post about Joan and Jane that being the boss's girlfriend is a powerful position in an office, as least in the offices I have worked in. I can't imagine however that the current story arc that has Joan on her way out won't turn somehow. She is too important a character in my view. I love the professional bond between Don and Peggy.
Lots of lounging on couches going on with this episode: Joan on Roger's couch, Betty on her couch when the doorbell rang, Pete on his couch, and even ol' Don on his. Gotta get a couch for my office....
Clearly, Don did not want to sully his hands with a homewrecker like Jane. Remember that he's trying to act like he didn't have an affair, even when confronted about it playfully by both Roger (this ep.) and also Bobbie (two eps. back).
Betty is living vicariously through Sara Beth. She's not ready to have an affair just yet, but she's taking baby steps by setting her friend up for one.
I liked how she took the phone off the hook while they prepared their cookie dough lunch. Nice touch.
Isn't Margaret Roger's daughter? And those shirts from Menkins...Do you think Rachel helped picked them out knowing they were for Don? Or did she just give a store discount for old times? LOL
I think Mona just meant to say to Roger that he can tell their daughter, Margaret, that he is leaving Mona after 25 years of marriage for a girl about Margaret's own age. (Sorry if the grammar was off there.)
Roger is schtupping Jane. Don wants her off the desk because he doesn't want to be part of it. Jane got emotional because it all came out right in front of everyone.
Remember, Joan told her she knew exactly what was going on after Jane went to Roger and kept her job.
Did they offer a 6mth pd leave to Freddie or did they fire him? If the latter, I don't get why the posture.
Freddie is moving into an advanced stage of alcoholism.
Like they say, "Denial is a river in Egypt."
And it looks like Betty is hitting the wine bottle a bit more, now, as well.
Booze, the great escape. Until it bites you in the butt.
Why did Jane buy Don some shirts? At first I thought she might be flirting with him. But now, after learning she is having an affair with Sterling, I don't think that.
So why?
WELL....
The episode is soooo good; January Jones is a fantastic actress because she has allowed me to totally despise the character of Bette as a mother, wonder about her as a woman, and feel a bit sorry for her a wife.
Re: her inability to nurture her children...every time i see bette interact with her children i think about the lyric in the Janis Ian song of the late 60s.."I leaving home after living alone for so many years"...she is the typical privileged suburban housewife who can afford to indulge her psychic pain by sleeping late and ignoring/berating her children. I can just see Sally and Bobbie being disaffected teens who choose to run to Haight-Asbury and tune in, turn on and drop out with lots of drugs and sex cause mom didn't have the time to put the world in perspective for them when they were much younger and made them pay for the indiscretions of their dad....
.... Oh Freddie Rumson....that scene in his office was a classic...he has been messing up for quite a while and this is the straw yada yada yada...I am sure that he was the best years ago but he has allowed alochol to ruin all his best instincts and talents...great that Don was so loyal..which brings me to another point. While we all know that Don is a big 'ho" I also know that Don an amazing set of principals that don't ever seem to be reflected in the general population of S/C...he is extremely supportive of his creative team and especially Peggy (support he gave her when she was in the hospital and the opportuity he created for her when he and Rumson noticed her talent as a copy writer and even slapping Roger when he as incanting another woman's name after his heart attack...his attempts to connect solidly with his children and even his support of Bette when she was quite less than a helpmate last season...I also remember a small scene in the elevator when he made those young men change their tone and conversation and take off their hats....
.....it also looks as if Pete is getting on Peggy's last nerve with his selfish egotism and that finally, we will get to see Carla and the elevator operator as people rather than props in another world...
...all i have to say for now
the diva
I take it back. I think, as Peachy and Pete's Pajamas said, Margaret is Roger's daughter, the one who is seeing a shrink.
I LOVE Jane's dress with the colored squares in comparison to Betty's dress with the colored polka-dots. Jane's affair with the boss is bold, point-blank, cut and dried and ends up out in the open. Don's affairs are mixed up, a myriad of women and meeting places and are well hidden from his child-like wife. These visual expressions couldn't be any better.
They fired Freddie. They just gave him a way out. That's how business was handled in the 60s.
Betty is setting up her friend so she won't feel bad when the news that she and Don separated - and she won't be singled out at the country club.
Okay - let me try to explain this:
Roger is having an affair - and thinks he's in love - with Jane. Mona's comment about Margaret meant that Roger will have to tell their daughter what is going on - she (Mona) is not going to be the dutiful enabler anymore - that Roger is going to have to be a grown up and and take responsibility for this one with his little girl (now 18?) who thinks he's perfect.
Don is firing Jane because OBVIOUSLY Jane and Roger were talking about him.
I like how Joan says she is just another frivolous secretary to Roger
I agree with Born in 1960 - Yes, Betty is living through her friend (by setting her up to have an affair) because she isn't ready to have one herself, yet.
And how about when Don said "Good Night" to Freddie. And Freddie answered, "Good Bye". I think that says a lot. Freddie knows he won't be coming back.
Well, I am new to the whole Mad Men craze, and I have to say that I am officially in love with this show now. I tried to catch up with the marathon that they showed last week. So, I will be watching it from now on. And I liked this week's episode, especially when Don punched that Barrett guy in the face at the underground casino.
Pete is an ass, and he'll get his comeuppance from Peggy soon enough. Don's already threatening him.
Betty is a socialite mother. She doesn't really like the kids, they are just part of the "perfect" package.
Jane brought the shirts because Roger told her behind the scenes of Don's "coming in too early" - how else would she know?
GuySmiley... yes! I love the look on Sal's face when he got the FULL glass of booze from Freddie.
NancyStowOH... awesome connection between Don and Freddie pissing themselves. Although, you might say that Dick lost his identity, too. It seems to me that he doesn't know who he is or what he wants.
How great was it that Jane bought the shirts for Don from Menkens?
Based on the clip they showed last week, I was certain that Peggy was mad at Pete for spilling the beans about their affair. I guess we'll just have to wait for that to happen.
I did not expect Roger to leave his wife for Jane! I believe that Don is genuinely disgusted by Roger's behavior and this will help to to figure out what is important and to do whatever he has to do to get back in Betty's good graces.
Another great episode. I don't know what I'm going to do at the end of the season. I'll be in serious withdrawal.
Freddy killed how many Germans? And he's supposed to feel like a hero because of it? No wonder he's an alcoholic.
I don't think Jane is getting fired. Don just says he "wants her off his desk." She'll be transferred to someone else.
Don punching Jimmy Barrett may have consequences later. That will be interesting to see.
Looks like, from the previews, that maybe Don and Betty start the road back to their marriage?? Especially after Roger tossed it all away.
I can't wait for Joan's take on the whole Roger/Jane affair now that it's out in the open.
Did women really cry that much when hearing about Marilyn Monroe's death? Just curious.
Why did Pete refer to Freddie as "those people." Is Freddie from a different class? I can't stand Pete. Freddie's too lovely to be working in that cutthroat environment.
I agree with the commentary on Don's character. He's got certain values I love and then I'm disgusted with his player ways...hard to judge him though. He's human. He comes off as a hard ass but he's good at heart, whereas Peggy comes off as the girl-next-door sweetheart but has a cold, almost diabolical heart. I kind of wish Don divorced her and followed his heart. He seems a free spirit who is trapped in a life he created and now despises.
Wonder if Duck ever wet himself before a client presentation during his days of drinking? I'm sure he had his share of blackouts. Not an ounce of compassion for Freddy (though I realize they have never been the best of friends). My bet is that he was so disgusted by his own past behavior that he's unleashing it all on Freddy.
Nice touch with Roger discussing Freddy's issues with drinking while pouring drinks....
Yes, he's a hero for killing Germans. Men were routinely congratulated on their kills in the war.
mhcgrl - I, too, thought from the clip that Peggy was screaming at Pete because he blabbed about the baby. BUT... I have learned that the clips are never that obvious. Peggy will never confront Pete about the baby because she's in denial about it. Remember what Don said to her in the looney bin - "This never happened." (The Dick Whitman/Don Draper mantra - repeat after me - ohhhmmm)
From the very first episode last year Mad Men had been my favorite show. But I find one thing about it to be really annoying. Now is it just me, or is about 30 percent of what the characters say totally undecipherable? For a show with so many great production values the sound kinda sucks! (And what's with those dark offices in broad daylight?) It just always seems to be really difficult to understand what people are saying. So much so that this season I've taken to watching the encore with the closed captioning on just so I can find out what the hell was said. Anyone agree with me?
Oh yes, someone commented about Janes dress with the huge color blocks. Love it!
But I really love Peggy's dress for next week's episode. I saw it on the Mad Men Photo Shoot Photos on the AMC website. Black and White and looks great on Peggy! Love it!
Did someone mention Hazelton in this episode? I didn't know it was around that long.
This reminds me exactly of my in-laws. Dad in sales with a national aviation company right after WWII. Three martini lunches with clients, all white males, wives didn't work. Mom home with a houseful of kids and eventually turned to booze to deal with the emptiness of her life. He died at 62, she is still a drunk at 83. They were the perfect Don and Betty in their youth.
Pete's "those people" meant alcoholics.
A lot of men, post WWII, judged other men by what they did in the war. Roger notes that at first he thought Freddie was in the Signal Corps, meaning not in combat. Then he learned that was only in the last six months of his service and before that he had performed some heroics in combat. 1945, to these guys, is 17 years ago. Like 1991 is to us. Doesn't seem very long ago to me.
Oh! And this is wild! The other day I drank a Heneiken - all because of this show!
And, I bought Utz potato chips - again, because of Mad Men!
How cool is that?! A show about advertising and it worked on me!
Peggy comes off as the girl-next-door sweetheart but has a cold, almost diabolical heart.
Are you kidding? Peggy hasn't got a cold heart at all!
Pete is from the "upper crust". Although he sleeps around on his wife, alcoholics were considered "less manly" because they couldn't control themselves.
And yes, Marilyn's death was horrible to many people.
Wonder if I'll start smoking Lucky Strikes next? (Do they even still make Lucky Strikes?)
Pete is a piranha that will stab anybody in the back to climb the ladder at SC.
wow i cant believe the accuracy of the props! Betts had little "Salamander" stirring cookie dough in the exact same bowl as my mother used in the early sixties!!
NancyStowOH - I should know better by now that Mad Men is NEVER obvious! That's what makes it so great.
I was just thinking about what Roger said to Don. Something like, "Your loyalty is becoming a liability." As people have noted before... he's another example of Don's loyalty in all things business but lack of loyalty in his personal life.
Hazelten has been around almost 60 years.
As for the "dark lighting and indecipherable language" - the show is filmed that way on purpose. And the sound is very low. I have to crank it up during the episodes and turn it down during the commercials.
Now later into the episode, guess Freddie hadn't given blood . Can't figure this one out. Surprised that Betty was able to get out of bed and go to the stable. Guy Smiley, haven't gotten there yet but is it possible Betty was too depressed? I am discovering it is not good to try to guess what's coming up. I've been wrong on most. Obviously Freddy wet because he drank too much. So much for my R.N. expertise.They are firing Freddy because he drinks too much and they take him to a bar and get him drunk.Good friends
By the way, you gotta love the little details on this show. I loved how the girls in the office could hear the urine squishing around in his shoe when Freddy walked out of the office. (THAT I could actually hear.)
I looked it up, and Hazeldon has been in existence since 1949, according to their website.
I found it odd when Roger said, "Need to call the Misses?" Since when did he care? NEVER. Obviously (I realize now) he already knew because of some pillow talk with skanky Jane on Jane St.
Jimmy hitting the floor was so satisfying. What a jerk. The Freddy situation was so sad, though. Remember when he played Mozart on his zipper? That was so inappropriate that you had wonder how much longer he would be there.
Mona told Don to talk to Margaret because Roger was able to explain himself more fully to his daughter than his wife. Roger told Margaret he decided to leave Mona because of his conversation with Don the night before. Margaret told Mona. That's how Mona found out about the conversation between Roger and Don. Mona wrongfully assumed Don talked Roger into leaving. She has no idea about Don and Betty.
Jane bought the shirts for Roger because she told Roger about Don's marital problems. Roger clued Jane in on Don's need for more shirts. Jane realized she received a secondary gain from buying shirts for Don. She ingratiated herself to him, it was a little flirty and she could give Roger a little thrill out of it, too.
And, as others have stated, I am amazed at the accuracy (props) of the show.
"The clients -- they already think we're all like that," says Roger as he and Don toss back drinks. Ha!
Ironic, isn't it, that when Betty is truly in a state of deep clinical depression, Arthur finds her profoundly happy?
ldraper:
You can't compare today with the early 60s. People routinely drank, drank and drove, fired someone over drinks to ease the guilt.
Betty got her ass out of bed for two reasons: one, she was called out by Carla and two, to set up the horseman and her friend.
Sorry, Zabadu, I don't agree. Peggy's cold. She's cold to her kids. It seems she's setting up Sara Beth. She's unlikeable.
itsmylife:
That's Betty, not Peggy, and yes BETTY is horrible.
I had a couple of thoughts about tonight's episode.
Marilyn Monroe was supposed to have committed suicide.
I think Freddy is heading that way. He kept saying to Don "What am I going to do?" Work has been his life...
Don said goodnight and Freddy said goodbye.
Maybe the common thread in episode 9 is either going forward, or, ending it all.
To I REMEMBER - Thanks for your input on why you thought Jane bought the shirts. I was wondering about that.
Are we all feeding on the drama of other people's lives like teenage girls?
I think he said she was profoundly sad, didn't he?
I thought Arthur found Betty "so profoundly sad". She told him she wasn't sad, she was "grateful".
Ahh the blood drive is to save lives and the guys are joking about Freddie's accident and he is losing his working life.
Sal wouldn't be able to give blood now days if he indeed has engaged in homosexual activity. Nor Don most likely if they answer the pre-screening questionaire truthfully.
Mcmere - yes, he did say she was profoundly sad. And now, when she truly is profoundly sad, he doesn't notice it a bit. That's what I meant about it being ironic. :-)
Yes, I think Freddie is going to kill himself too. Like others have stated, I think that was the connection with Marilyn Monroe being in the episode.
They didn't have the pre-screening rules in the 1960s for giving blood.
GuySmiley - I think Betty skipped out on the lunch date because she wants her friend to be happy and have a little fun. Betty is clearly not interested in having an affair with the young man. She likes the attention though. Remember when they met at the club and he said that he would leave her alone and he was sorry of pursuing her? She quickly said, "Wait... let's be friends." I think if it were the right guy... someone she was really passionate about, she would totally have an affair.
I just realized that when Mona walked into Don's office, her dress looked black...like she was in mourning. It wasn't until she walked back out under the fluorescent lights that you see it's a deep navy. Nice one, costume department!
NancyStowOH - Yes, that is ironic - Now that Betty is truly sad, that he didn't even notice.
Don is such a perfect performance of a person incapable of feeling. He can't feel love, hate, anything. He is loyal but that is something he has witnessed and knows that society views as admirable. He tries to feel. He just can't. He wasn't born with it and it wasn't nurtured in him. He found a woman just like him. Hard to believe she knows so little about him, but she doesn't want to reveal too much either, so they are a perfect fit. Problem is, humans are made to connect, and without connections they eventually die. They die little by little, from the inside out. It isn't obvious at first and then as the years go by, it is impossible to dismiss or hide.
That's when the lid pops off, reality spills out everywhere and on everyone, affecting all those they are suppose to love and those that have loved them, leaving everyone wondering, "what the hell is happening?".
I love Roger saying that his alcoholic podiatrist came back a "new man" who "only" drinks beer now. LOL!
Does anyone think Freddie may have PTSD? Roger mentions that he killed Germans in WW2 -- perhaps the alcoholism is a symptom of residual trauma?
Oops, yup, meant Betty.
I'm hoping Pete gets his *ss kicked by Don. Don's very shrewd. I thought his conversation with Peggy where he tells her she'll be copywriting was a good demonstration of this. He questioned her in a way that helped him understand her character better. While he didn't show it, he would appreciate her loyalty to Freddie and the way she would have handled the situation which would have been to say nothing at all. It's good.
I liked it better when Roger was funny. He's going to have another coronary with Jane the gold digger.
Don actually looked and acted like a gentleman tonight. I loved it when he punched Jimmy, but I loved it more when he stood up for Freddie.
Someone posted that Margaret, Roger's daughter, was seeing a psychiatrist - she saw one when she was a teenager for awhile. With Roger for a father, why wouldn't she?
I loved, loved, loved, the scene with Betty in the kitchen defrosting the fridge and cutting the contact paper. Also, Sally stirring the cake mix - did that as a kid myself, along with mashing potatoes by hand.
Anyone have ideas on why Betty set up Arthur and Sarah Beth? I'm not sure if was being a friend to Sarah Beth or something else.
I predict Don will be back in the house next episode.
At our Maddict convention, we should all have to say "Milwaukee" to get in!
Pete's blue pajamas--I was young at the time of MM's death, but I don't remember anyone crying about it. People were shocked, but I didn't see anyone as emotional as it was portrayed. Is it just me, or was Don D particularly touching and vunerable in tonight's episode? I love him....
I can't wait until next week - to see Joan and if she says anything to Jane!
I think Betty was setting up her "friend" to get back at her for her comments about perfect Don.
There was something devious about the lunch date, did you notice that Betts took the phone off the hook so that Sara could not call to see where she was?
Forgot to put this in my post.
Freddie definitely has a medical condition - I would a seizure disorder because he seemed to be out of it when he was urinating his trousers and had a momentary lapse of memory just before he fell asleep.
I'll miss Freddie. It will be interesting to see how the staff turn on Pete now that they know he told on Freddie.
They all seem like alcoholics-some just seem to control it better than others. Each office has it's own bar and they have a closet full of the stuff. Anytime anyone goes to someone else's office, they are offered a drink. My parents had cocktails every day when my dad came home and now I wonder if he drank at work, too? Maybe the show is exaggerating it a bit because of the Mad Ave. theme-I hope so. Otherwise, seems like a whole generation of men would be plagued with cirrhosis of the liver!
NancyStowOH - Yes! Let's all say "Milwaukee" as our password to get into the convention! LOL.
And yes, someone mentioned Don was actually a gentleman in tonight's episode. I agree - with the whole sticking up for Freddie thing. Very much a man of loyalty.
I don't know if Freddie is going to kill himself but someone important to Roger is going to die. Joan's comment, something like "Someday you'll lose someone you really care about. Then you'll know." is a pretty good indication.
People in the 1960s did not routinely share their feelings. Don and Betty's marriage is very indicative of a lot of marriages at that time. Don, handsome and seemingly successful, Betty, groomed for "happily ever after". A lot of wheels came off marriages when the 1970s rolled around. That's also why Betty Friedans book was like a bomb back then to women.
Watch the preview for next week. Don berates Pete for not bothering to read Peggy's notes for the next meeting. Don hates Pete, and is looking for a way to get back at him.
Alcoholism was very big in the 1950s and 60s too - because no one talked about their feelings. So if Freddie had PSTS, he would have drank, not talked. But I doubt he'll commit suicide.
OMG - Don is actually JEALOUS of Freddy - he told Freddy it's a "fresh start." He told Freddy there were a lot of towns he could go to. I think if Don got a 6 month leave of absence he'd be long gone.
I don't think Betty was being under-handed by setting up Arthur to be at the lunch date. I think she was just helping her friend out. Hoping that at least her friend could have some enjoyment out of life - whereas Betty isn't enjoying life at the present time.
"Someday you'll lose someone you really care about. Then you'll know."
That was about his wife - Joan knew Roger was sleeping with Jane, remember?
I was interested in the conversation between Roger and Joan when he found her in his office.
He asked her if she was all broken up about Marilyn's death too? Then he said "you're not like her" after giving her the once over.
She made that comment about how he will understand when he loses someone close to him. Hmm....
Something is going on with Joan.
i luv the show!!! i love don he is so cute!! i was like who is margaret and i think it is great that peggy got the job but feel for her cause she is in a mans world she is so good. and i also loved the dress that jane was wearing. so don let jane go cause she was talkining about his private life to stearling??or is she the onethat stearling is having an affair with??
Ok, just to throw some fuel on the fire, or to light one...I notice that Don's adulterous ways are pretty much universally condemned here. And some ladies in this forum have mentioned being the victim of similar behavior...but the discussion of whether or not Betty will have an affair has a much less moralistic tone. Is it because she was betrayed first? Or because she is a woman? Also, on the subject of the attractiveness of the alpha male, this article in today's London Times was interesting: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article4837668.ece
nancystowOH: you are right. good eye!
Do you think Margaret ( who is Roger and Mona's daughter ) will commit suicide because her parents have split up? Or is Roger going to "lose her" because she will be totally disgusted with her father, especially at a time when she is supposed to be getting married? Or was Joan talking about him losing Mona (thru divorce) who he truly loves a whole lot more than he thinks?
Did anyone else think Mona was coming in to help Don and possibly ask him to move in with them instead of staying at a hotel? Not saying that I thought that or anything...
SAB is a nasty piece of work! She's no saint and deserves all that bad shit that happens to her! No sympathy for that entitled skank!
Don deserves better!!
Silver Foot is the king of assholes!! A snitch! He needs to be shot!
I think MM was the Princess Diana of her day. She was like a fairy tale to some people and then she died too young. Women identified with her because they thought she was misunderstood. She couldn't find happiness even though she was beautiful. Some people still collect stuff about her-similar to Elvis. To each his own.
(1) Nancy StowOh - YES! The pissing-pants thing was a great catch!
(2) GUY SMILEY - YES! Loved the look on Sal's face with the glass, too!
(3) PETE's BP - loved the "hide in plain sight" line too.
(3) LUCKY STRIKE - the voices are a bit subdued, but I think it's just that we're used to the shoutiness of other shows. I actually love how it draws you in; this show is just so crazy subtle, I love it all! I just turn it up a little & enjoy it, then I do the same thing as you w/the rebroadcast, w/the CC on on. (I had to do the same w/Sopranos.) The lighting, too, is part of what I think makes it so rich & so real. Have you noticed how on most network shows, every single lamp is turned on in the house? I think this is much more real, and more movie-like.
Also, I love the hints of This Day in History ... now we know it's August 5, 1962. I can't wait 'til next season with November 22, 1963.
And Betty taking the phone off the hook, Don calling Sally "Salamander", everyone taking to the couch ... I love it, I love it ALL !!
Grab a couple of Ladies Home Journal's from the very early 60s and they will tell you a lot about the behavior that was expected back then.
I love that everyone loves this show, I'm just surprised at how few know how it really was like back then.
So...do you think everyone will start watching Madmen because of the movie Revolutionary Road or will they go to see the movie because they like Madmen? It looks like a wonderful movie..
Mcmere, IMHO - I think we could all forgive Betty for cheating because she's been cheated on first, and "of course" she'll be doing it because she's hurt.
Hi annaz - welcome!
midcenturymod,
They aren't exaggerating it at all. They had liquor everywhere not just for themselves but for clients as well. Back at that time, many men died of heart attacks in their 30s and 40s, didn't live long enough to die from liver disease. Alcohol and smoking destroy the circulatory system, too, not just the liver.
O.K. I promise I will never try to watch the show and blog at the same time again. I missed so many things that would have explained the crap I was blogging about, and trying to guess ahead of time.It made me feel like an idiot. I APOLOGIZE TO ALL.
Revolutionary Road was a fantastic book, and the ending is...well, shocking. I'll be in line to see that movie.
NancyStowOH, I didn't think Roger told Jane about Don. I first thought Jane bought the shirts for Don to get on his better side & like her.Not to mention, now that it is definitely confirmed of Roger & her being together secretly...Jane probably wants to be treated like she's already Roger's "wife". (Remember aside from work he has never fallen for her "revealing" assets.When Don stated about "It's personal", I think she's the one telling Roger the lowdown.) I had a boss who cheated on his wife with his young assistant. When he divorced & went around his old haunts with her, basically all his friends ostracized her at all their gatherings.
Lucky-You just have to crank up the volume. Don's deep voice is hard to understand otherwise. He's the only one I have a hard time understanding. The darkness is intentional, I think.
I was a little disappointed in tonight's episode only because of some postings here from people who had a sneak-peek by accident. Don't get me wrong it was good but I thought something HUGE was going to happen. Why is Roger using Don as the catalyst to ending his marriage??? What happened to the divorcee' who lived in the neighborhood with the odd little boy? Looking back at season 1 with Don and the bohemian gal (forgot name), she seemed to be quite a "steady" for Don. Now he is Mr. Perfect Husband??
No condemnation from this woman on Don's acting the nympho! I liked it better last season because he was bedding Ravishing Rachel at one point! And I like it this season because of Bobbie! Hell, all 3 of his side ladies were sexy, fun and powerful! They sure were a hell of a lot more entertaining than that sad sack he married!
Oh, how wonderful it was Don decking that short, unfunny bastard! Fantastic!!
OK. I am officially a Maddict. I am staying up way too late! My baby is likely to wake up at the crack of dawn tomorrow (today) and I have to go to work tomorrow. Yet I feel compelled to read the posts and check out the preview for next week's show!
Speaking of the preview... the title intrigues me: The Inheritance. Who is inheriting what? Any ideas? It could be that Pete is inheriting some bad karma (finally).
Okay 60schild, you got me. It was me the whole time.
"I think we could all forgive Betty for cheating because she's been cheated on first, and "of course" she'll be doing it because she's hurt."
Not me. Two wrongs don't make a right.
If Betty has an affair, it lowers herself to his level and she wouldn't affect her "standing" that way.
Surely Roger will come to his senses when he realizes how much dough he will lose to Mona?
Hi zabadu! I don't remember that Joan knew about Jane and Roger seeing each other. To tell you the truth, I thought his last fling was with the call girl last episode.
Oh, I think Revolutionary Road can count on ALL Maddicts to be lined up! Especially since it's not coming out until December, and (sniff) we'll all be suffering from a 2-month-long withdrawal (or should we say "drying out"?). What perfect placement for this movie trailer. It's almost as if Joan Holloway suggested it ....
Interesting parallel - Don encouraged Roger to leave Mona and move on (albeit somewhat unwittingly) and Betty set up her friend to have an affair with Arthur (purposefully).
Midge. The beatnik's name was Midge.
Does anyone know where "AMC on demand" is? I have Time Warner, can't find it. (I missed #8)
I'm more than a bit surprised to see this streak of malice from Betty. We've seen her make racist comments and treat her children like furniture, but those behaviors can be attributed to ignorance and self-centeredness. Now she's going out of her (our) comfort zone and taking pains to screw up the relationships of others. Or is it that we are starting to get more of a glimpse of the real Betty? One who can sabotage a friends engagement while baking cookies with the kids. They made Don out to be a real stand-up guy in this episode. I can almost understand how he has a hard time feeling intimate with her.
On preview: Joan told Roger he'd lose someone he really cares about, but when she dumped him after the first coronary, she said "you love her." He's lost both Joan and Mona now. I wonder if he's even capable of caring about people. He's a cad - I can't wait for more of his backstory.
Hi Visan! Yes, shoot the little twit with his own "chip and dip" rifle!! I'd like to see him pee his pants!
I wouldn't forgive SAB for an affair. Then again, I'm not cutting slack for that manipulative skank!
Sharon - that's hilarious - we'll be drying out!!! Way too true!!!
I predict that Joan will get a job as a soap opera writer.
chopin47-Glad my dad lived in good health to an old age then. My parents and their friends did seem to have a lot of cocktails-I was fascinated with it all just like Sally and Bobby.
"Don encouraged Roger to leave Mona and move on"
Nope, Don was trying to talk himself into that. I don't think he figured Roger for anything but a guy like himself. "We're in this together" from Roger was saying "well, you split with your wife, so I guess I could split with mine".
OK... next week's show: "The Inheritance" has made a Jonatha Brooke song pop in my head... Inconsolable. I've included the lyrics below. I think it works in so many ways, but especially "And you will find your inheritance is the silence that's grown/It is the seed that you've sown."
Inconsolable by Jonatha Brookes
I never knew what enough was
Until I'd had more than my share
Then I let the darkness in
It was then I lost the dare
It was then I lost the day
There will be no prayers on your return
And there will be no party thrown
And you will find your inheritance
Is the silence that's grown
It is the seed that you've sown
'Cause you were the one sure thing
The one sure thing
Maybe I'm not crazy, just inconsolable
Inconsolable
There is no mystery to be revealed
And so we tell the truth and then run
I love you because I love you
And I did think that you were the one
But now I see who you've become
'Cause you were the one sure thing
The one sure thing
Maybe I'm not crazy, just inconsolable
Inconsolable
Two issues really stand out in this episode. The first is Betty's continued downward spiral into her depression. There is quite a bit of chatter about how bad a parent Betty is on these blogs. I'm guessing none of these bloggers has suffered depression while trying to raise children. At this stage she has very little to give to anyone else, and it will be several decades before any anti-depressants will be available to her (the alcohol can only provide a temporary numbness).
Her emptiness is only exacerbated by the other issue highlighted in this episode which is Don's maddening ability to live in such an utter state of denial. How can Betty even begin to deal with his affairs if Don won't (or can't )even admit to himself he's had them. His comment about not feeling bad at all when talking to Roger is very telling. Same as when he tells Betty about her promotion while barely mentioning Freddy's departure. This denial provides the distance Don needs to survive--a coping mechanism--but it will always put some distance between him and anyone with whom he attempts to seek intimacy.
Did anyone get the book that Bette was reading "Ship of Fools" (Don/Bette/Freddy/Roger/Jane/Peggy/Pete) which was all about a group of misfits sailing together on a luxury liner? Nice parallel.
I am always amazed at how quickly this thread fills up! By the time I hit the refresh button, there are at least 10 more comments! We must be nuts, or is it NUTZ??
Loved the weasel getting sucker punched by Don!
SAB? But, yes, Don and Rachel were the best couple! Don and Bobbie was awful.
Betty is too cold to have an affair. Too messy for her. I am jealous of her housecoat though-wish those would come back. They look comfy and easy to throw on.
MartiniUp: You have it pegged. This was the moodset of marriages in the 1960s. Betty knows that if she breaks up the marriage, she has no identity - Identies didn't start developing in women routinely until the late 1970s. Don is a man's man in a mans world. Society thought nothing of a man cheating on his wife. Only other wives found it shocking.
Don is, to use a word popular at that time, an existentialist. He thinks life is just one damn thing after another and then you die. "It has a bad ending," as he said tonight. He has vented this point of view several times throughout the series. Life has no particular meaning and you just keep "moving forward." I don't think he was urging Roger to leave Mona or do anything else. He was simply expressing his own view of existence, in which we just keep putting one foot in front of the other. In Don's worldview, we all yearn for something to counteract the emptiness of existence. It is this mournful view of reality that makes Don so insightful when it comes to human psychology and so brilliant in his creative work: "You know what advertising is about? It's about happiness."
All these folks on the internets, feeling pity for SAB, how ya like them apples? Seeing her nasty, manipulative side! I've always contended she was a malicious "B" and now my insights have been validated!!!!! She deserved to have Don cheat on her all the times he climbed into bed with other ladies!
What excuses are there now for her nasty behavior? She deserved every once of that nickname I gave her--S.A.B.!
I don't think Don is principled so much as he puts a lot of emphasis on appearance - banal things like manners and decorum. He's horrified at Roger's behavior because it's unseemly. He doesn't want to talk about him and Betty for the same reason. He corrected the behavior of the young men in the elevator because it was not polite. He approves of Peggy for having professional decorum. He punched Jimmy for ruining his marriage, but not because he misses Betty or loves her, but because it ruined his perfect-life image. Don has no feelings.
I disliked Jimmy when we first met him, but he grew on me. I don't think he told Betty about Don's affair wanting to upset her. He is in some ways as isolated and invisible in his marriage as she is in hers and he wanted to commiserate with someone in the same position as his - and of course, have his revenge on Don.
Pete had become more sympathetic for a few episodes (I think it started when he punched Ken for making fun of Peggy's weight gain), when they were playing into his character's depth and motivations (spurned his family's wealth to make it on his own) but he's back to being a smarmy impetuous child again, I see.
McMare and Emikoala - you both have it right!!
Martini Up - thanks for the compassion. Doing anything effectively when in the grips of depression is impossible. At least Carla is there and her kids are being cared for. I also think we're getting a glimpse into how Betty was raised - we can't help but parent the same way we were parented - it's what we know.
No one has commented on the "Archibald Whitman" comment. Interesting that he pulled two names out of his hat - Tilden Katz and then his dad.
Roger is going through his "middle age crazies". He'd better wake up and smell the roses or Jane will give him his last coronary.
Loved the Menken's shopping bag!!
Visan, did you notice the look on Don's face when he read it!? Rachel is everywhere!!!
Finally, a new show. I was about to have an Archibald Whitman episode of my own when i saw the repeat last week.
I love Roger's one-liners. The joke about the podiatrist was classic.
Jane will give him his last coronary.
Notice how Roger mentioned "two coronaries" as what he thought "is that all there is"?
Someone else posted about how it's hard to understand the dialogue and about the lighting.....I just took the quiz for this Ep. and the only question I missed was the title of the book Betty was reading because it was so dang dark!!! GRRRRR.......!!
Great episode. I was happy to see Don level Jimmy, felt bad for Freddie, but Roger... oh man.... I didn't see that coming.
Check out this brand new mad men forum at "madmenlounge.com"
You can probably still get a good username before it gets popular. It's way more easy to post and reply, and it's also clean and easy to read.
Hold on to your hats, Things are about to take a turn at old S/C
@60's Child: I'm convinced that the Mad Men writers are torturing me with the Menken's bag and mentioning Tilden just to get on my last nerve! They know how much I miss Rachel this season! *boo hoo*
Clarification - I said that Don unwittingly was encouraging Roger to leave. He didn't intend his words to be used as encouragement. Betty knew exactly what she was doing. Roger was already 8 toes out the door and needed someone else to blame for it. What a weasal - telling Mona that it was all because of what Don had said. Classic addictive behavior - never his own fault!
Contrast Mona vs. Betty - Mona actually blames Don for a decision that Roger made. C'mon! Roger did what he wanted to do! Betty wouldn't go blame someone for encouraging Don to do it. She has been incredibly strong in standing up to Don and not letting him off the hook for what he's doing. Don honestly doesn't get it.
I don't know who's worse - Don for not getting it or Roger for trying to blame it on someone else. End result is basically the same, though.
Betty gets a lot of criticism, but Don in specific and the social pressures of what a marriage and a wife and a woman should be in general are what has turned her into the hollow, empty person she is. She's not cold, she's depressed. She is living in an emotionally abusive situation that has slowly destroyed her psyche.
Hey - we still don't know who Don sent the book to. And let's not forget that he signed it "D" which could be Don or Dick...
Well, Maddicts, Sunday has turned into Monday and I must get some sleep before the morning when I will go to work and try to run my own little version of Sterling Cooper. I look forward to reading all your posts with my morning coffee.
I didn't see the word "unwittingly" - and I copied and pasted your sentence. Sorry if that's what you meant.
Oooh! I wanted to bring that up re. Tilden Katz! Was that the name of Rachel's husband? At first I thought it was Don's funny way of saying "'Til then, cats," but then I was like "It's a double-entendre!"
I have to say that I loved Christina Hendrick's scene. Anybody notice that the pen is back on her neck? I hope that things turn around for her with a media opening. Her comments suggested that she seemed very hardened to the situation of women in the steno pool at SC.
Also, why Milwaukee for the password?
As an alcoholic himself, Duck should have done more to help Freddie instead of throwing him under the Bus. Karma is a bitch and I wouldn't want to be standing near either Duck or Pete when it shows it's head.
Nokomis: AA wasn't that big back then. You didn't "help" another alcoholic. It was considered a "moral problem" and you dried yourself out in a hospital or mental institution. You didn't get counseling or anything like that. They hospitalized you until you were dry, then set you back in the world. Duck sees it as a man who couldn't "man up" like he did.
As for the Milwaukee password - did anyone think about beer? They're famous for that.
First Roger tries "swordfish" as the password to get into the underground casino. Then he pays off the bouncer, and belatedly remembers that the password was "Milwaukee."
Here is the classic routine from the Marx Brothers' movie "Horse Feathers": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOxpPJYUTDM
Some folks need to cease with making up excuses for SAB's shitty behavior! She's racist, a shitty mom and malicious!! Why?! Because she is! Stop blaming her momma, her daddy, her children, her husband, the man on the moon and whoever the hell else! She is the one responsible for her tacky behavior!
She's a nasty piece of work! So just see her for who and what she is--a complete "B!"
Hi GuySmiley! Yes, Tilden Katz is the name of Rachel's husband.
And I did notice the pen was back around Joan's neck.
Milwaukee for the password, I'm not sure....but, didn't Freddy finally say it?
Now, I'm really going to bed. Swordfish!
why do you call betty SAB? I don't get it.
I hate to bring up an ugly incident, but remember the episode where Duck betrayed Chauncey? Just before he did that dastardly thing, Duck opened a door to an office and was visibly suprised to see someone there. He said something about not getting the evening paper so he could check some artwork and the man in the office then left to get him one. I think Mr. Duck is a closet drinker and goes around the office after hours drinking the booze. Remember he had the bottle in his hand when he looked down and found Chauncey watching him. I am really hoping they come in to work some morning and find the Duckster passed out in someone else's office with an empty bottle in his hand.
Hi
Did Betty ad "new logo/recent packaging" Nestle Chocolate chips in the kitchen scene????
They have done a great job with props-but wondered about the packaging.
Mark
@Salamander: I give most of the characters a raunchy nickname and SAB is what's been bestowed upon Don's low-life wife!
So Cooper is a germ phobe? I wondered about the shoe removal fetish.
With Roger telling his wife, that means he is going to marry Jane -- so she will be leaving anyway.
I don't know the big deal about Freddie's drinking. Don got Sterling drunk in payback for hittling on Betty and Sterling threw up liquor and oysters in front of clients.
Loved the way Freddie restated that Pete got him fired.
Isn't Duck a lame duck? He never seems to bring in clients. Does he even work? Didn't Don hire him as I don't see Don having any power over him.
Loved the way Betty redirected her friend to get her out of her business. Her friend was digging when she said Don was perfect and Betty is weak right now.
Taking the phone off the hook meant -- I'm done with her and my secret is tight.
Betty is saying Damn to herself and will probably let Don come back home for lack of other options. Sally is just too clingy to Don. Betty realizes how much the kids love him and does not know what to do. That Sally is a handful and could easily blame mommy for daddy leaving.
There's nothing in the locked desk drawer. Don has already gotten whatever it is.
So Roger has had 2 heart attacks -- damn. Not much of him left for Jane. I'll bet you money -- Roger hasn't slept with Jane yet. She told him she didn't sleep with married men. That's how she got him. Poor Mona -- she'll get paid. Hopefully she'll have a great attorney -- but she wants to be Mrs. Sterling, not Mrs. Ex.
Jimmy Barrett is like a woman scorned -- such a little biotch, like Pete.
Well Maddicts, this is the last post of the night (now early am for me).
I am getting punchy from lack of sleep, but, here goes...did anyone else notice that in the opening sequence when Don opened his newspaper, the main title was: MM suicide?
MM=Marilyn Monroe, and MM=Mad Men!
I told you I was tired...goodnight!!
We don't know for sure that Roger is leaving Mona for Jane.
Why was Jane crying? I think Roger is going after Joan, not Jane. He may have been sleeping with Jane, but I don't know that he's in love with her.
Woof!
lizzie, (Entertainment On Demand) - channel 1012 - Time Warner On Demand has Mad Men episode .
That's all folks! Have a nice night!
Mwah!!
--Very Visan;-)
One more...Chauncey, is that you boy? Woof once for yes and twice for no!!
Layers within layers within.....MM: Yes, she was iconic, and when did the stories start breaking re her and the Kennedy brothers? Talk about secrets and infildelities and unhappy women.
And re Floyd Patterson being de-reigned by Sonny Liston, and then Liston by Cassius Clay (later known as Muhammed Ali).
Quick somebody... Google this. I was young then, but I remember.. or I used to know, but have since forgotten ;-)
I thought the scene w/Betty defrosting and lining her drawers was appropriate to the era, but Betty has Carla. Most middle-class women did not have household help, upper middle-class maybe, but then she also rides and there's the country club.
I don't think Betty would have been defrosting her ice box, lining her shelves maybe, but icebox, no .... ;-) Not when there's hired help.
WOOF!
Does anyone feel that Season Two is lacking somewhat in regards to the Soundtrack? Season One seemed to present so much more texture and mood because of the music.
Tonights Episode 9 ended with Marilyn Monroes' sultry rendition of "I'm through with love"; only the song was cut off after a minute or so.
Betty is the most tragic character on the show. Her life is dedicated to a man who doesn't appreciate her, and society hasn't give her any other acceptable options. She's expected to suffer in silence and maintain appearances. She's clinically depressed and receiving no treatment so it's not surprising she can't mother properly. She's casually racist, but so is everyone else on the show. This is pre-Civil Rights.
Remember that Don told Stering he was relieved that he was separated. So he really wants a divorce.
Goodnight, Chauncey, sleep tight, and don't let the bed bugs bite!
Hi greensweater, you can't be too surprised at Bette's malice...Remember when she lost the modeling job for Coke Cola? She went out & shot the pigeon's of the next door neighbor who yelled at the kids when the dog chewed one of his birds accidentally while playing in the yard? She was a regular Annie Oakley!
I have a feeling Roger's daughter will be the someone close to him that he loses. She is supposedly seeing a psychiatrist. Once again. I don't know if that means she's dating him, but I took it to mean she was under his care because it's been mentioned that she saw one earlier as a teenager. Clearly she has some issues. If not the daughter then certainly his now socially disgraced soon to be ex-wife. She doesn't strike me as the kind of woman who would want to live through the type of early '60's stigma and embarrassment that came along with divorce. Even worse, she's being dumped for the young office hottie. Ouch! Hummm, now that I think about it maybe it's Joan. (which would be a damn shame and I'd have to kill someone at AMC.) Roger has already made the obvious comparison of her to Marilyn Monroe. Nevertheless, I think Freddy committing suicide is a bit too obvious for this show.
(sniff sniff)......rrrrr.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This is the world for Don:
Jane is sleeping with Roger but was clearly flirting with Don when she saw an opening. He let himself slightly warm to her. She was ready to betray Roger. Which he realizes all in a single moment there at the door to his office.
Roger his "friend" gets him to open up about his philosophy about life and it leads to the break up of Roger's marriage. Roger hates war sissies and whacked Freddie. How would he feel if he knew the truth about Don?
Freddie Rumson served in war far more bravely than Don and is ruined by the same act (pissing himself) that gave Don his deserter's way out of his war and new identity.
Is it any wonder Don is horrified by the world? Nothing but disloyalty, betrayal and misunderstanding all around--and-- "It doesn't end well."
Loved Don's, "I want her off my desk!" the look of utter freaked outness was just awesome. As was his "shutting the door" on Roger--literally and figuratively.
Don wants to at least give his kids some kind of decent fiction. Betty is just drifting. Doesn't seem to care.
And loved the "A real Archibald Whitman move" line. It takes that much booze to get him to cough up that one oblique, but revealing bit. And the look on Don's face when Roger says they're "in it together"-- Don looks like "you've got to be kidding." Just great.
JeriB -- Thanks for that Title !! I was trying to see it, and hubster was no help. Ship of Fools -- How perfect. Katherine
Anne Porter. The bookjacket even took me back -- the
font style, the design -- perfect.
It would have been too ironic, if she'd been reading something by Cheever ;-)
Thanks to those who cleared up the Tilden Katz reference. What I don't get is why the other guys laughed like it was some kind of private joke (of course when you're that sauced anything Don called himself would have been funny to that group).
I'm with those who feel like the dialogue is a bit garbled (who can forget all the chatter when people thought Roger actually asked "Do you smoke crack" vs. "Do you smoke, Crane?" a few episodes back?. Seems to me some finely honed dialogue gets wasted sometimes which is a shame (unless the writers do it for kicks just to stir up chatter on the blog). To make matters worse, some of the dialogue has to be spoken with a cigarette hanging out of the mouth--most of us have gotten out of practice listening to folks as they try to light a cig which is a good thing. I swear my clothes smell like stale smoke after I finish watching a MM episode....
Yeah Betty got Bobby out of the way so she could take the phone off the hook so she didn't get any calls about not showing up for lunch.
Betty sure doesn't show much if any love for the children.
SAB - I like that heh
Having worked as a secretary in the Corporate world in 1962, I experienced some of the same things going on at SC. We had a blood drive in the cafeteria (some people got paid then for donating blood, but not at the company); and one time I interviewed for a job at Anheuser-Busch (Budweiser) and they told me they had free beer breaks vs. coffee breaks. (I didn't get that job.)
Laura Petrie: I had a dress exactly like Joan's blue one (not the patterned one). It was angora and had the same bow, but I had it in yellow. I didn't see Peggy's dress in the next episode, but I do know that black and white houndstooth check was very "in" in the early 1960s.
Pattyo: I think Joan, especially, was crying because she related to MM so much.
Tam Tam: I had a refrigerator in an apt. that I rented at that time that you had to defrost. I sent away in a catalog for a gadget you plug in to melt the ice and foolishly went our shopping. When I came back all the plastic was melted and the eggs on the shelf were hard-boiled. I had to buy the owner a new refrig. Blame it on my youth. I also put contact paper on anything and everything.
Can't add a thing---you've all covered everthing beautifully already! Love these posts!
One thing I would like to see is for Mona to take Roger to the cleaners in the divorce..then for Jane to get all the furs, clothes, houses, trips, diamonds/jewels, etc.out of him--- and then when she (and the alimony!) has left him practically destitute, she dumps him--- and then he tries to crawl back to Mona! But, hell, knowing Mona, she'd probably take the skunk back!!!!
Anyone else catch Don's comment at the bar with Roger about Archibald Whitman, a drunk he once knew? That must have been "Dick Whitman's {Don's alter ego), father.
step-father..
A lot of you bring up such good points! It really helps to set my thoughts straight, as sometimes it gets hard to put everything together! It's nice to have a second (and third and fourth...) opinion about things!
Don...the show revolves around him and his downward spiral. Nothing lasts forever, not even Don's facade. We're seeing the cracks beginning to show and how everything relates to everything else.
I like the comment about how Betty can't decide what to do if Don isn't willing to open up to her about what he's doing in the city. Her depression is directly related to how she is finally growing up! She was raised to not do anything for herself, not think for herself, and just live the "american dream". well, the american dream is a nightmare, and she's realizing that! what she thought was the perfect life is a fake. Yes, she's cold to her kids and a bit shallow, but it's because what she was raised to believe is complete bullshit. It's good for her to finally wake up to what's going on and take off the mask, but she doesn't know how to deal with it. And with Don not willing to talk to her about anything (probably because he sees her as his mask) she's headed for disaster.
Peggy...She is not cold-hearted, she's keeping her cool. In this world of male egos and unwritten rules, I think she's doing real well keeping up the pace. She didn't realize that she was supposed to tell Don about Freddie because she didn't know the "rule". Which is only contributing to Don's downward sprial. First, he wasn't told about Freddie, then he wasn't let in on the pre-meeting, then Roger is pressing him for answers at the bar without telling him why (because of Jane's pillow talk)...he's just getting blindsighted left and right!
Pete...total douche, but he plays it well! I don't think Peggy will tell him about his love child for a while, if ever, because once it's out, the suspense is over and what fun would that be, right? half the fun of the show is waiting in agony week after week wondering if the plot is going to unfold the way you thought it would.
Freddie...WOW, just WOW! poor guy! worked for S/C since the beginning, since roger's father was boss and now gets kicked to the curb. It all finally sets in for him as he gets in the cab "No, really, Don, WHAT DO I DO??" the night is over, the fun is over, don and roger just tried to delay the inevitable. I won't be surprised if Freddie goes the way of death of a salesman. only going to send Don further down the sprial because Don really liked the guy!!!
Menken's shopping bag...at first I thought Jane was trying to buy don's affections (hubby still thinks so). now i think her and roger were pillow talking and thought
"hey something is wrong with don"
"well, he mentioned he was staying at the roosevelt"
"oh, and I see dry cleaning coming and going out of the office"
"we should really help him out-i'll go buy him some shirts"
initially i thought she was doing it to help his extra-marital affairs (because one of the "rules" of being a secretary is to help your boss keep everything on the downlow) so maybe that was her way of helping him keep everything under wraps. now i'm not so sure.
jane...office slut, what can i say? i don't remember her saying something about not sleeping with someone who is married (as some previous post stated) but it makes sense that Roger can't have her and finally came to his breaking point at the bar after hearing Don talk.
Speaking of the bar scene, Don doesn't feel bad about what's going on???? then why the hell is he so upset? it seems like if he really didn't care, he'd be finding another bed to lie in.
Joan...i thought for sure she was laying on roger's couch because her engagement was off. i thought i recall a sneak peek with her looking in the mirror at a bruise on her arm and then her yelling "don't you ever do that to me again!" is she being abused? and was the guy she was having dinner with last episode her fiancee? looked too young-i thought she liked them old. anyway, she hasn't gotten enough airtime this go round. I want to know how she gets back at Harry for hiring someone else when she was doing AWESEOME at the tv script research. Joan will not let that go easy. I thought she was going to become the next Peggy...
I'm definitely loving the 2nd season better. i don't have enough time or energy to write about all the paralells and circles with ALL episodes. But it's exactly like life-you can't do something without affecting everything else. it's all connected. don't forget that.
I felt that in this episode Betty arranged this lunch "date" for Sara Beth to indulge her in a little flirtation perhaps because her friend mentioned she felt "Invisible" she knew he would provide her with some attention. But I don't think Betty is a saint. She could also be jealous that Sara Beth feels lucky in her marriage and wants to somehow interfere with that. I always feel conflicted when watching this show HA!
Do you think Pete wanted do Freddie in because he was still jealous when Peggy sat on Freddie's lap the time they were at the strip club?
The book Betty was reading was "Ship of Fools". Need I say more?
If you watch the video explaining the episode, you'll see that most of the answers are right there, and some of us weren't far off in our posts.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid895162757/bclid1672161042/bctid1819686796
Goodnight, Chauncey-Boy!!!!! Woof-Woof-----snore.....
What a great call MadMoni. Peggy did do that -- probably because Freddie was the safer of the bunch and she was staging "being in."
Pete is such a weasel he probably did gunn for Freedie because of it.
Just a few comments about tonight's show, and thanks for all the previous ones--
Whenever I think nostalgically about the past I thank God for frost free refrigerators. Defrosting the refrigerator was a god-awful job.
Did anyone notice how Betty's face changed after she invited the young man to lunch and she wa walking away? I thought that was really great acting.
In an earlier show Betty alluded to being "nordic." She reminds me a lot of certain of my Swedish relatives--won't talk about how she feels, even when the wheels are turning very fast inside, cold with her kids, it seems all she ever does is send them to bed. It was a great scene at the end, though, when you see her friends sitting at the restaurant, enjoying themselves, and then it cuts to Betty, harassed and joyless in her kitchen, putting time in with her kids. And yet, despite her depression she's setting up her friends. Interesting.
Hi Zabadu, thank you for introducing me to this link! Being new to the website itself this was a treat! It’s funny how we all interpret characters differently. This was an eye-opener. :-)
Specific comments to individuals:Hapynzap:I agree with you about your criteria for giving blood, however, [hate to agree with Zabadu on this] the criteria has changed greatly from the 60"s. All the lifestyle questions came into play during the hysterical 80's. But, Zabadu RC always asked preliminary questions. Midcenturymod; yes it's very possible that Freddie has another problem that could be causing Petite mall seizures.Martiniup; I totally agree with you. Betty is in a clinical depression, she never get's dressed, her hair looks like she doesn't shower[too much effort for someone so down] she is drinking alone in the middle of the day. She is MISERABLE with her life and doesnt know what to do where to go or how to cope. She is not a bitch or a bad mother because she doesn't care, it's because she can't even take care of herself, and just getting out of bed is a struggle .To ZABADU; I said nothing about drinking and driving. As for firing people over drinks I'm sure that still happens.But said nothing about that either.You said Betty was setting up her friend [I think, I loose track after so many exchanges] or living vicariously through her friend.[That might have been someone else as well] I just remember your tone was completely unforgiving.I guess you've never had to deal with someone suffering from a real mental illness. Good on you.You come off as so negative to many peoples comments.You weren't the only one around in the 60's. Everyones memories are their own and seen through their own lens. By the way women still can loose their status after divorse if their whole lives were tied up into being Mrs. Fill in the blank.
Did anyone catch that comment Roger made to Freddie about a friend who went to a clinic to dry out and came back cured and now only drinks beer. My how times have changed! One beer a day qualifies as an alcoholic in todays
world and anyone with an alcohol problem is advised to drink "none!" I also agree with everyone who finds Betty an inadequate mother. She just doesn't seem to care at all about the kids even though she is home all day with lots of time on her hands. Dan is a less than adequate father as well.I thought parents in the 1960s were supposed to be better parents than today. I don't see it with those two. It looks like Roger has finally fallen in love. Even 'Miss Holloway" wasn't enough for him to leave his wife but Jane must be some thing special. He said to Don at the bar that there are some "Incredible women" out there but they are off limits because they are married. But Don is such a "man ho" (with anyone even old Bobbie) he should not be particularly upset with Roger or Jane as he is doing the same thing. But as is his usual he is in denial and looks like a fool.
I like to twist plots around in my mind. I believe that Roger really found the ideal woman in Joan. He is taking up with Jane to hurt Joan for leaving him for a healthier, younger, potentially successful (soon to be doctor) man .
Betty, I feel, put her friends together because she is angry at men right now. She is angry at the comedian Jimmy for being crass and disclosing the his wife & Don's affair, she is of course angry at Don. I think she at first wanted to take a try at Arthur when she went to the stables but when she saw him flirting away she took pause & decided to throw her friend at this married man as a show of contempt of marriage and relationships. She knows she can 'turn off the switch' at will. Meaning she can detach herself from human feelings. Freddie may have killed in the War but he has shown an uneasiness about taking life. Betty can take a rifle and take down a bunch of birds for vengeance only with complete calm. But she pays a dear price for this. She is completely depressed (unexpressed anger) and has had boughts of paralysis. Will she completely crash and burn? Disconnect from the whole world completely? I am hoping for an epiphany- but I'm an optimist!
There are no blanketed good guys or bad guys in this show. It is an observation of human action and reaction. And the good and bad choices people make. Peggy is surviving as best as she knows how. She may appear 'heartless' as someone earlier mentioned but she has loyalty - she even says she 'loves' Freddie at one point to express her gratitude and respect for people who have helped her. That is why she is fiercely loyal to Don. There were no self help sections in the bookstores, no Dr. Phil, no O Magazine to get advice in the early 60's. Everyone was winging it. This show, I think, is showing us how that 'winging it' failed which led to the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, if you will. Searching for deeper answers to all those previously unanswered inner questions. My two cents- thanks for reading if you got this far!
Random thoughts (Yes, this is one of those “long posts” someone complained about the other day. :)
“Some people just hide in plain sight” – while there are obviously many layers and meanings behind this, I think Hollis, the elevator operator meant himself, how African Americans at the time were treated like scenery in the ad men’s world. Mostly in service positions and not given much consideration.
It’s so fitting that Joan felt Monroe’s loss so deeply. She knows how it feels to be seen as nothing but a sex symbol, when there is so much more to her. Especially given her short stint as more-than-a-secretary, she is probably exploring the other sides of herself and wants to break outside of her box. “This world destroyed her,” – I think she hopes the world won’t destroy her too.
Sally, hugging her father and starting to cry as he had to leave as soon as he comes back – so heartbreaking. So many kids of divorce and separation feel torn apart between their parents in that back and forth shift.
Jane – I wanted to think that she was just feeling sorry for Don, but had the feeling that she was just trying to get her claws into him. The Menkin’s bag was just another (unintended) sting to him about his infidelities.
Did Don really feel that bad for Freddie Rumson (defending him to the frat boys), or was he just thinking how bad he’d feel if news of his marital problems came to light at the office and people were making fun of him?
Pete is a snake. But I wouldn’t expect anything less from him.
Peggy went further up in my estimation. There’s still quite a bit of integrity and honor in that girl. I’m glad she let loose and went off on Pete. She should do that more often.
Roger leaving his wife for the secretary based on what drunk Don said feels like it’s coming from left field. I don’t see how it got there. I think Roger just used Don’s words as an excuse, and Roger deserves to be shot down. CANNOT WAIT for Joan’s reaction to Jane/Roger and where Jane will be put next in the office.
Don is obviously not at his best this week, and that seems to result in numerous Freudian slips - "Suicide is disturbing" and "a drunk I knew".
From the teaser at the end, I predict that Betty’s father falls sick or dies after she fights with him over the separation. She calls Don and he tries to comfort her. Then they have make-up sex on the bedroom floor. Take that, Visan. :)
I've missed a couple of important details and wonder if anyone could fill me in (I hate to wait till I can see the first season on DVD again). How did Don Draper come to switch identities with his sergeant (or lieutenant). I assume he died and I know there were only the two of them present. I must have missed a few minutes right in there. Then, NancyStowOH mentioned something about Don sending a book to someone and signing it "D". These details seem important to the story.
Also, as I recall, Marilyn Monroe dying was not the emotional equivalent of Princess Diana (or of JFK, MLK and RFK shortly thereafter). I hardly remember any "office talk" about it. And no, JFK's
affairs were not common knowledge back then.
Thanks.
hanna-
great post. I was wondering if someone could answer my question.
Is Roger leaving Mona for Don's secretary, Jane?
I felt it a little ambiguous. But I wasn't sure..
I guess it was kind of obvious since Jane was weeping.
any thoughts?
Thank you all you Mad Men lovers!
natalie
mcmere, what you describe is a nihilist, not an exisentialist. I don't believe Don is either. His apparent lack of commitment is really an absolute inability to trust anyone -- and given what we know of his upbringing it's not too surprising he feels that way. The amount of energy takes him to repress his desire for trust and intimacy is driving him crazy.
We really have some social darwinism manifesting in this office. These guys were on Freddy's bones quicker than white on rice. I would like to see Betty explore an affair to remember. When and who will be the lucky lad? The kid at the stables seems too spot on. I really didnt see the ending of 9 coming at us like it did. Looks like Margaret has figured out how to start some real fires.
Susanne - Don used to be farmboy, Dick Whitman (the "drunk (he) knew" was his mean stepfather). He entered the army during the Korean war to escape his past and when he was stationed with only one other soldier (the real Don Draper), they were attacked. The other soldier died in a fire, and Dick decided to switch dogtags. He assumed Draper's identity, won a purple heart, got out of the army early, and was sent to bring the other soldier's body home (to HIS family). He chickened out on getting off the train and talking to the family (for obvious reasons), but his half-brother Adam saw him through a train window. Years later Adam went to find Don, but Don pushed him away, paying him $5,000 to leave and never come back. Adam committed suicide (which Don says is "disturbing). Lovely story, huh?
natattack - I think Roger is leaving his wife for Jane. He's been hitting on her and helped her get her job back. It's possible he'd leave Mona for Joan, given his past with her, but Joan seems to feel just contempt for Roger now.
Ahh! Thank you all, especially NancyStowOH, for explaining the "Margaret" comment at the end. I love this show!
I'm really glad Mad Men won for best drama. It's a unique show that I've been watching since the very first episode. Isn't it funny to see people function without cell phones and the internet back then? Good Night!
.....the Mad Men series was clearly based on the Richard Yates novel Revolutionary Road.
COMPLETELY by accident, that novel is being made into a CINEMA FILM. !
this is good for hours and hours of maddict fun.
i LOVE LOVE LOVE the use of the one and only Nina Simone in the trailers.
big jazz fan here....
I never heard the phrase "Give a Chinaman a music lesson" before so I Googled it. Personally I prefer the much more hilarious #two version, "I gotta go drop off the kids at the pool."
It's toasted!
Great episode and a truly great show.
With all the junk released in both TV and movies out of Hollywood these days, it is always great to come across one of these rare gems.
The scene where Freddy pisses himself was hard to watch, yet riveting. Of course Pete and Duck take advantage of the situation....
Betty may be more manipulative than Don even, if that is possible. Don is a very complex character, I agree with those who say he is someone who cannot feel anything no matter how hard he tries....yet he does have some moral compass, just not in all areas of his life.
Great catch on the Tilden Katz reference, I had missed that.
What Mona meant by "you can talk to Margaret" is that he can do his explaining to their daughter why he is breaking up the family. And, I've always thought it's ridiculous to mourn celebs, especially the superficial sluts, and pimps in hollywood. Don, and Roger had it right, MM had it all and she threw it away herself, (IDIOT TRAMP). I'm sure if Joan would die MM wouldn't have gave a shit about her. And Jimmy Barret asked the wrong champ for advice. Floyd Patterson? What a paper Tiger. Sonny Liston destroyed him, and then Ali put the Coup de Grace on his ass. An overblown Light Heavywieght that got lucky, and had the title briefly. Obviously, Roger is banging Don's Secretary, but i don't think Don appreciated his name being brought up. I guesss Roger can Blame Don if he wants to come back to Mona later. And what about the veiled threats made to Don about his loyalties becoming a liability? DICK!
In defense of Jimmy: I don't get why everyone's so pleased that Don socked poor Jimmy. Don's action reflects more on him and his anger at himself than on Jimmy, who plays the role of the court jester, whom everyone kicks around but he tells the truth. He looked Don in the face and told him exactly what kind of louse he is for sleeping with another man's wife. Don hitting Jimmy is just part of Don's own ongoing denial trip. And Jimmy bounced right back, he knew not to take it personally.
Also in defense of Betty: Lots of comments about how cold and conniving she is. She makes me think about the wrath of a woman scorned. She can't stand the pain of the realization that the man she adores has done her so wrong. Can't figure out why she set up her friend though. If you watch the video on the Madmen blog homepage where the cast analyzes the show, they talk about Betty feeling betrayed by them???
I agree about the Jimmy comment Jessica.
Surely Don was way out of line sleeping with his wife and Jimmy told him so to his face.
I don't think Jimmy was trying to destroy Don's marriage as much as telling Betty out of his own hurt.
Don't feel too sorry for Freddie. He has had an ongoing drinking problem at the office and was outed by Roger on the farewell for the zipper song. He was probably drunk then too.
I think Jane and Roger must have been having their trysts in a tanning bed (if there was such a thing at the time). Both of them have orange skin! Orange cheaters! :)
I liked how Betty set her friend up for an affair; it's sad, but kind of funny. Everyone around her is a cheater and they've proven that to her. And she gets to be the perfect, faithful wife by passing the temptation to cheat off on her friend.
....hanna i totally noticed the "oompa-loompa" effect on both of them....
those fake tans just do NOT translate well on camera......
At least the "fake bake" is better than going out in the sun and getting skin cancer. Still, it looks pretty hideous! I wonder where Roger and Jane have been hanging out for them to get the "tans". Having some "From Here to Eternity" moments?
Oh please...Bette is a silly asssed bitch....yes she IS probably suffering from clinical depression but she is also selfish, vain, and vacuous in addition to being a piss more mother. I am sure that she will take Don back because she realizes that she has NO SKILLS to sell on the employment market and no way to sustain the (material) lifestyle to which Don's considerable skills and talent have allowed her to become accustomed.
During this season Don has attempted to change is doggish ways are at least ameloriate them by becoming a better dad...Bette just acts as though the children are an impediment to her being totally self centered
re Jimmy...Jimmy's anger at Don stems not from the mere fact he had affair with Bobbye...it's clear from earlier episodes that Bobbye had many an affair...it's that that Bobbye was really falling in love with Don and Jimmy knew it...
my 2 cents worth
@mhcgrl: The Inheritance. Who is inheriting what?
Perhaps Peggy inheriting Fred's accounts?
Hi a mob hit! The thought went through my mind that the real Don Draper is receiving an inheritance from a family member
How would Don/Dick deal with that?
ok, so was that "I'm through with love" by Etta Jones at the end of the episode?
@Lucky Strike:
I never heard the phrase "Give a Chinaman a music lesson"
I misheard it as Give The Chairman a music lesson. I thought, what, Frank SInatra was in the club and I missed it ?
So I'm thinking that Jane never though Roger would leave his wife. I think she likes to feel important. She practically ignores Ken, but gives lots of attention to Don and Roger--the important, powerful men. Certainly having Roger's wife storm into Don's office was embarrassing, but I don't think she would have pursued things with Roger if she had any inkling he would leave his wife. Likely more of a way to show up Joan... "look who I can attract the attention of. You're old news."
60'schild... An inheritance from the real Don Draper's family sounds very plausible. Good thinking! If that is the case, I suspect it will work on other levels as well. I posted last night that I think Pete might inherit some of his bad karma.
I agree with divayaya69. Betty is selfish, self-centered and a horrible mother. I truly believe she does not like her kids and does not like Don. A miserable human being. Don is so much better.
a_mob_hit: Peggy inheriting Freddie's account would also work to explain the Inheritance. Oh! I can't wait!
Roger is a total asshole; I never really hated him until now. Hope he drops dead "in flagrante delicto" on top of Jane. Joan is much too smart to have broken up that marriage. She didn't want to marry Roger, anyway. Jane's an idiot. I think Joan needs to move out of that toxic environment.
Kudos to wryter1 (where has he been?). He posted a couple of months ago that Freddie's drinking may have been a result of his demons from WWII. Looks like he was right. I got the feeling that Freddie is the one who's going to jump out the window. He said "Goodbye, Don" when Don said "Good night."
I caught the "Archibald Whitman" reference too.
I was liking Duck, but he should be showing some compassion for Freddie, since he himself is a recovering alcoholic.
Betty will be coming into an inheritance (perhaps money from her late mother?) This may enable her to take some control over her life. Her father hates Don!
As usual, I don't know what to make of Don. He acts so self-righteous in this episode.
Anyone catch Roger telling Don "BBD&O hired a colored kid?" I think we'll start seeing the black characters developed more fully soon.
First, Archie Whitman is Dick/Don's biological father! Archie's the dude who was in last season's Hobo Code and refused to give the hobo any money for the farm work. Second, Don totally loves his children! And, IMHO, he's fearful SAB will lose what little mind she has and harm them physically! Don's relationship with Bobby and Sally is one of the better things about the show!
Hana--
Isn't Archibald Whitman, Dicks (Don's) real father who died when Dick/Don was 10 by getting kicked in the head by a horse was a drunk --- as he tells Rachel after Roger has the heart attack? Dick/Don's biological mother, a hooker, died in childbirth and Archibald Whitman was left with the child on his doorstep. Archie Whitman's wife then raised Dick/Don, with a man she remarried who Don called "Uncle Mac." She and Uncle Mac were Dick/Don's "brother" Adam's parents. In actuality, Dick and Adam were not blood relations, but Adam apparently looked up to the much older Dick Whitman.
When don says it's a real Achibald Whitman move, it's reminder to him of his feared biological inheritance of impulsive, self-destructive behavior from his town drunk father. It's why he's repulsed by his own catting around-- at least to some extent.
I'm hoping that the characters who are black will continue to have more of a presence on Mad Men.
Adorable Sheila returns next show. And of course, Carla's (along with Bobby and Sally) presence at the Draper home is about the only good thing about seeing that damn house! Heck, even Hollis is getting more lines! Thank Goodness!
But I want more! Go ahead, call me greedy! Ha!
In those days a lot of women were not permitted to be sexually awake. You had to marry well so you could do your job well - raising children and being part of a community, a parish, whatever. What will happen to Betty if someone wakes her up sexually and emotionally, and she begins to feel her depths? Seems to me she hasn't really known that yet, she's role playing. Not her fault, exactly - it was typical back then. Women were not allowed the least self-possession.
Can't post a new thread on this site - watched it late and quite frankly do not have the time to read all of these threads so sorry if some of these have been touched on here.
(1) Liked Rogers comment to Joan about Marilyn - get a grip. This worship of celebrities in our culture is ridiculous
(2) Don made a reference to "Archibald Whitman" when talking to Roger about punching Jimmy Barrett
(3) Why do I get the feeling that we will see Rumson in a later episode as a homeless person. Something so unsettling and extremely sad about that whole thing - maybe his wife will kick him out and Don will run into him on the street somewhere. Just really believe this - and it will knock Don for a gigantic loop
(4) Betty, Betty, Betty - you really need help - I understand you are devastated Don cheats and your life isn't PERFECT but you are getting on my nerves now. Last week you had me - you lost me this week
(5) Don and Peggy work really well together and the trailer next week shows this again - also he was impressed by Peggy when she mentioned that they'd have to pull Marilyn ads - plus she wasn't crying like the rest of the sects.
(6) Roger is a real nit-wit. He couldn't have Joan so he goes with this dweeb Jane. It's so typical and quite frankly a boring storyline. Joan and Roger at least had spark - this Jane is plain.
How somebody reads this on this ridiculously long thread
Wow! ususally do not enter convo but I have to say Bettys character is so real. We are lucky she gets out of bed. She is the true desperate housewife. Loved the manipulation of the lunch. I can see why many are upset about the children but this is so text book. She cares and loves deeply. She's DEPRESSED in limbo. Been there done that. Moms are not perfect we grow and learn from mistakes. In the twenty years I have been a mom I have made plenty.
Rachel was as exciting as a dirt sandwich or oatmeal. If she had married Don in her early twenties she would now be the repressed and depressed housewife and Betty would be a fabulous model. I can not see why some are defending a woman who sleeps with a married and a man who cheats. Very strange.
Archibald Whitman was Dick and Adam's father. Uncle Mac was apparently Adam's mother's brother. I'd have to go back to the Hobo Code to be sure, but that's what I remember. When Adam was born, Uncle Mac asked Dick to come see his brother and he said he wasn't his brother and Uncle Mac said, "You have the same father, that makes him your brother."
Oh and this was prob mentioned before but didn't ROGER ACTUALLY THROW UP OYSTERS ON A CLIENT AND HE'S GOT THE GALL TO WANT TO FIRE RUMSON when what he did was in the privacy of his office? Roger and Pete willl regret that - KARMA baby. I like that Peggy had such a strong reaction to it. She is clearly the only one uncomfortable with what happened. Don tried, meekly, to defend Rumson but once the decision was made he had no choice. Although if he really wanted to defend Rumson he should have thrown the oyster incident into Rogers face.....
I also noticed this week how Don is all about appearances. Here is a guy he bangs CLIENTS and he has a prob with Roger and his sect?!
Duck, Crab. Crab, Duck.
I say that a lot recently. Still laugh about it
I had mentioned months ago that I thought the character Pete looked like a cross between pee wee herman and mylie cyrus lol
I am also trying to watch the episode again on demand and it isn't there yet ... how long does it take before they put it on
when I saw the newspaper headlines MM I was also thrown and didn't connect it with Marilyn right away ... when my daughter was in her teens she was really into Marilyn Monroe and bought a book about her at a yard sale
I think it is Joan Roger is leaving his wife for and that is why Jane was crying
Hi lorantscan! Duck, Crab, Crab, Duck....it says it all!!
Susanne,
I remembert it as you did about Marilyn Monroe's death - people were shocked because of her young age, but otherwise everyone, even my classmates, didn't talk about it much.
She was no where near the Princess Diana of her time. Diana actually did things for people without expecting anything in return, like the land mine campaign, AIDS, and other causes she helped before they were popular to support. Marilyn Monroe was a movie star and even her fans knew she was unstable - the marriages and constant affairs, although we didn't know about her and the Kennedy brothers until long after her death. Remember, the newspapers at that time didn't publish everything they knew about celebrities - certainly unlike today. There was, however, a lot of press about her not showing up for that last movie she made with Clark Gable - she cost the studio a lot of time and money by showing up late, not at all or being under the influence of (prescription) drugs.
Did anyone think it was ironic that this episode with MM's death in it was aired just 2 days after another legend, Paul Newman, passed away?
McMere, I don't think most of the women who post on this board are sexist enough to condemn Don for cheating and then praise Betty for doing it. After all, don't both genders hate liars and cheaters? Are you more forgiving of Don because he's a guy and "everyone did it" at that time? Kind of insulting to have someone ask that, isn't it?
I think the reason that Betty arranged the lunch between her friend and the guy at the stable is that her friend has been asking too many questions and she wanted to create a distraction for her so that she wouldn't keep bothering her. She wants to keep her marital problems a secret, and her friend was getting too close.
For me, the best line in the show was when Roger was talking to Don and assumed that he felt bad (about not living at home any more), and Don replied that he doesn't feel bad at all, only relieved.
I hope that Betty is able to get into that locked desk and finds out about "Dick Whitman." Surely that's where Don keeps that stuff.
Looking forward to the next episode, I noticed that several of the characters asked one another "Are you afraid?" I think they're talking about the Cuban Missile Crisis, which occured in October 1962. I'm betting that the unease over that situation will have Betty begging Don to come home to be with her and the kids.
Bobbie, Rachel, Midge, Joan, hell, even Peggy and Jane, owned their sexuality! All were women of that era and have/had no problem expressing their desires! Bobbie was from an even "older" era and she managed to be a damn good mom, tending to her teen son and seeing her daughter in a play at an uppity college. So, being a momma and living in that era are no reasons for SAB behaving the needy, vindictive loon!
Great episode, great comments. Gail, I did hear Roger say that to Don, and heard Don's reply that 'I wouldn't want to be that kid.' Nice to see Big D's more sympathetic to him that the ad agency. I also like that comment from the black elevator operator about Marilyn, that some people hide in plain sight. Subtle racial notes this week, probably presages more serious stuff.
Dry Manhattan, did they have an ad for Revolutionary Road on? I caught the show on TW On Demand, so I missed it. Damn, can't wait to see that one, although I am afraid they will ruin one of my favorite books.
So many great big things in this episode -- I think the 'Six Month Leave' title was nice, because this whole episode seemed to be about euphemisms for the awful truth. It's sounds temporary, but it's really checking out -- just like Marilyn did. What do we call Don/Betty's separation? What do we call Freddy getting shitcanned for being an alcoholic? What do we call Roger's checking out of the marriage? A few random thoughts:
+ Don's Great Advice Strikes Again! Betty's line to Don about selling anything to anyone was great, and seemed to set up Roger buying his booze-filled speech about 'moving forward.' Again, it seems like everyone who emulates Don/takes his advise/adopts his world view may end up the worse for it.
+ Betty Can Act! I thought January Jones was phenomenal this week. Her body seemed held down by imaginary weights, which is sort of what depression feels like. The writers correctly aren't giving her the moments that flash 'Award scene', but that's true to where she is -- bravo to her and the writers for playing it straight. (Yellow's a big color for her; any thoughts? Yellow can signal sunshine, but also sickness. Also, there was a short story called 'the Yellow Wallpaper' about a young wife who goes mad. Anyone remember that?) I don't view anything sinister into Betty setting up that lunch between Sara Beth and Arthur; she felt sad for SB when she said she felt invisible. Maybe I'm wrong.
+ Great Small Things! I've rambled too much, so I'll wrap up by praising this episode for the awesome little touches throughout. The writers have created a full universe here, and they really know/love these characters. I loved when Roger said they were going to 'take another lap' before ordering food but told the waiter to bring bread. Like the best seasoned drinkers, Roger knows it's going to be a hard night so they'll need some bread to keep them from getting soused too early! (Maybe a myth, but drinkers believe it). I loved when Cosgrove told Sal to smoke after giving blood. I loved Harry's imitation of Freddy ('Jesus!'), even if Don was right to dress them down. I loved Sal cracking up when Freddy wet himself. I loved how Peggy said she loved Freddy (he always nurtured her), and how she immediately knew it was Pete who screwed him -- and I loved how Pete's secretary Hildy (who's gorgeous) called him out too; she rightly has no respect for Pete. I loved how the 'Jackies' and the 'Marilyns' consoled each other separately the morning after the news of MM's suicide broke. I loved Freddy's nobility in the face of embarrassment in this episode, and I loved Duck's response that they weren't doing him any favors by pretending it didn't happen. I loved Roger's little punch to Don at the bar; their male bonding scenes are always priceless, hysterical and very true. I loved Don's heartfelt talk to his daughter, and how he called her 'Salamander.' I loved everything Peggy did; she is a quiet but salient observer in this decaying Rome of an office, and will survive because of it.
Sorry for rambling, that's enough love from me!
"Your loyalty is becoming a liability" was the craziest line in the show. Roger clearly has no loyalty and he's telling Don to abandon his. In that gang of a-holes Don's the only one with scruples, and then even barely. Honor among thieves, so to speak.
I have to agree with Jessica though - Don fucks Jimmy's wife then punches him in the face. I guess it's the "Jimmy told me everything" line Betty delivered that gave him the itch, but it's another example of Don protecting his non-existent honor. Jimmy even got a kick out of it. Good for him!
Hi cad men! I'm glad you noticed the newspaper heading too.
I think many young women today connect with Marilyn on some level because she was such a tragic figure. She seemed to have it all...and was never really happy. The "Hollywood machine" is guilty of contributing to her misery.
Yet, I was kind of suprised by all of the female staff at SC crying so much about her death. It's awful to say, but, from what I understand most women of that time envied her.
It was afterward, when people found out about her sad life that people felt sad, and mourned her loss.
I also got a kick out of the fact that it was the elevator operator (can't remember his name) who mentioned Joe Dimaggio, and how Marilyn's death must be affecting him. Don looked at him like he never heard of Joe D.!!
Anyway, that's my latest 2 cents worth!
.....lorantscan, I thought the same thing about Roger and Freddy, and am still not okay with it. Evidently Roger is going through an extreme asshole phase.
I've never seen anyone black out standing up. Freddy didn't seem THAT drunk to me, and I thought at first he was having a petit mal seizure, as MadMenSuze mentioned above.
If he had had a seizure, then him falling asleep immediately after would not be unusual at all. In fact, it would be expected.
Alcohol is also a known trigger in seizure disorders.
I truly didn't understand all that crying over Monroe's death. It was sad but to act like Marilyn was related to every member of the steno pool's family was too much. At least Peggy and her bad bangs kept a cool head!
Owning ones sexuality means sleeping with married men, banging men you work with and debasing yourself for a manipulative man. Thanks i needed that clarification.
Are we not all needy, vindictive, loons? Hmmmm
I thought that Peggy sat on the client's lap, not Freddie's. Also, I loved the last scene with Peggy and Pete, when he put his hand on her arm, and she just looked down on it.
I luv this show!!! ran out and bought the first season and viewed all the episodes in order. I love how they bring back memories of the early 60's, in style, fashion, attitudes, etc. However, I am always amazed at how TV can manipulate the viewers. We all cheered when Don decked Jimmy, and what was Jimmy's crime (outside of the fact that he is obnoxious) he called out Don and told Don's wife that Don was sleeping with his wife. We are glad that Don punched him out for that.
I also love how now everyone is getting on the Mad Men bandwagon. Bryan Bratt (Sal) was being interviewed on CNN this weekend about Paul Newman's death and the anchor was just pouring on the Mad Men praise. The Emmy win may pull this show up yet. Intelligent TV is hard to come by
Again, I really think we haven't seen the last of Rumson - the way he said goodbye to Don was so forboding. I can def see Freddy as a homeless person who runs into a Sterling Cooper employee somewhere along the way. Sad.
Hanna and Dry Martini: I remember using a product called "Man Tan" in those days to look tan, but I came out looking orangey. Horrible!
Etienne: That was not Etta James singing "I'm through with love" it was Nina Simone singing "Wild is the Wind."
Dry Manhattan: I, too, am a jazz fan and loved hearing the Miles Davis recording of "Sketches of Spain" in the Hobo Code episode.
Divayaya69 and a mob hit: I think Betty's father will die and she will be the one to get the "inheritance" so she won't need the skills to get on with her life as you think. She may join up with "The Jet Set." We'll see........
Sandy Manata - I do not praise Don for punching Jimmy. Jimmy did deserve it though just for being an annoying twit. Don really had no choice to do it though. Don is just as ammoral as Jimmy.
....lorantscan, that was kind my drift regarding the book/movie comment.... my theory is they are doing it now because of the buzz surrounding the show.
I felt like that when Princess Diana died. Isn't that corny? But for some reason people tend to relate to the princess of their era. I'm new to the post, haven't been able to read all of the posts - Do we know if Freddie (don't know actor's name) is leaving the show or not? I absolutely love this show. It is exhausting to watch each week, which is what makes it so great. My father was an ad-man of the sixties. Wish he was still alive to watch this!
One more thing - my mother was such a "Betty"
Well Roger's parting shot to Freddie regarding the zipper song is further evidence that Jane told him since she was there for the performance by a silly ass drunk Freddie.
As for alcoholics they DO have black outs.
I think Freddie is going to be needing that Samsonite suitcase.
.....I agree about the inheritence. Betty has been saying for a while that her father has been ill.
I still say Betty should go back to school, get her Ph. D and go into private practice with Dr. Arnold Wayne.
Draper can be her first patient. Hell, she's halfway there already. Any wife in an extremely deceitful relationship is necessarily forced to become not only her own therapist, but her husband's.
Old Fashioned: What was said in the bar scene with Roger and Don just before he did the punch in the arm thing? I watched twice and still couldn't make it out.
Jim K: Welcome back.
Look, Don's a nympho and it was wrong of him to screw another man's wife. I make no excuses for Don's sluttiness. But I completely, totally cheered Don on for punching the shit outta that unhumorous asshat! Unfunny Comic needed a literal smackdown just for not knowing his place!
Also, Silver Foot makes me wanna snatch him up every time he darkens my damn TV screen! Ugh!
Maybe this is what the "Inheritance" means and not a real inheritance per say. Long read but pretty good. Saw the trailer for the movie and want to see it. I gained a new respect for DiCaprio after "Departed" and "Blood Diamond" He wuz robbed.....
Frank and April Wheeler, the protagonists of Richard Yates' 1961 novel Revolutionary Road, are, in the most basic sense, ordinary people. He works in the city in what he calls "a hopelessly dull job;" she's a stay-at-home mother of two. They live on the street that gives the novel its title, in a cookie-cutter suburb in Connecticut.
In the 300-plus pages of the novel, nothing all that extraordinary happens to them, at least not until the end: Frank and April deal with dissatisfaction and fear, with pregnancy and ambition, and with the dream of escape. Yet in spite of this lack of surface pizazz, Revolutionary Road seems, each time I read it, ever more moving, and ever more an essential testament about mid-20th century America.
Anyone living in the suburbs, as I do, is going to recognize Frank and April's world, but Yates sets his novel very precisely in 1955, that fulcrum year, when America was tipped halfway toward the previous quarter-century of restraint and doing without, and half toward the future, when a greater sexual freedom would call all that restraint into question. Like the greatest American literature, Revolutionary Road is about inheritance: what it is we carry with us from our ancestors, what it is we can never quite shake loose from even when we believe we're breaking free. Frank wants to be a suburban rebel — his own man — but he can't stop feeling his world as a diminished place next to his father's. "He continued to believe that something unique and splendid lived in his father's hands," is the way Yates puts it, and though we eventually learn how small and threatened the old man's world was, that phrase speaks to the continuing burden of the past.
There's another element of the past that Yates evokes beautifully: the way the 1920s' Lost Generation instilled in its sons and daughters growing up in the '50s the dream of escape to Europe. Filtering through Frank and April's days, you can breathe the scent of the old American romanticism and the way it hovered over ordinary couples like these.
But maybe, the novel suggests, it also poisoned them. Frank and April feel a growing emotional distance from their safe and cozy suburban world; Yates charts this not only by rendering in brilliant detail what was so truly stifling about the expectations of the '50s, but by showing us how "the dream of voyages" became a too-easy and ill-thought-out escape hatch for those who considered themselves superior to that world.
When April announces, late in the novel, "I don't know who I am," that overfamiliar line — a line that by all rights should land like a cliché — instead becomes a heartbreaking moment. We've come to see by then just how unformed this young couple is, yet how deeply they are caught inside the world they're trying to flee.
Richard Yates was a famously pessimistic writer, and there's no question that Revolutionary Road, while a hugely pleasurable read, is not an easy one emotionally. Every time I read it, I start to see the world the way Yates did: the clothes hanging on my clothesline begin to look a little shabby, my suburban house in some desperate need of repair. But that's a small price to pay for Yates' clarity. The deeper I get into the life of marriage and parenthood — Yates' special territory — the more essential I find that clarity to be.
If it's truw - what a tie in!
@etienne: "I'm Through with Love" was sung by Marilyn Monroe. I believe that she performed it in the film "Some like it Hot". :)
.....It was a BIG surprise when Don Draper got sloppy in this episode. First, he dropped the name of his mistress's husband, which was merely indiscreet.
The one that was a big surprise was him dropping the name of Archibald Whitman.
Unless he subconciously wants to come clean about his background, I can't picture the Donald Draper that I know (paranoid, secretive) being that sloppy - especially now that he's seen the real Roger Sterling....it didn't make sense to me.
Remember that Roger doesn't know about this secret. So far, it's only Bert and Pete. You saw how loyal Roger was to Freddy. Now that Roger and Draper are on "the outs," what do you think Roger is going to do, when he finds out about Dick Whitman?
Roger is now in the "dangerous, capable of anything" category, right along with Pete.
Also, I thought Julie McNiven (Hildy) looked even thinner than usual. She was slender before, but seemed a little gaunt....JMHO.
And I have to say, things are not looking good for Pete. He seems to be digging his own grave just the way that Draper said he would. Then he'll become a Freddy.
Dry Manhattan: your line about a wife not only being her own therapist but her husbands. Is sooo smart , just like the show, it should be used in the show. I cant help but think they get some of there ideas from this blog.
Last night had so much going on! It was a disgrace that Frank pissed his pants and didn't even realize it, then he fell asleep!lol That was hilarious. I don't like Pete but i agree it was disgusting.Frank is a funny guy but that type of behavior is unacceptable. Also, I was happy that Don sucker punched Jimmy even though i dont like Don infidelities, Jimmy deserved it he talk to damn much among other things. The fact that Roger tell Don everything else he should have given him notice about the affair. I was stunned Roger was leaving his wife after 25 years but i guess the marriage was dry anyway. She deserved a better way of finding out al least that. I love the show and how they put everything in perspective. I didn't want it to end last night.
When I saw the various sequences pertaining to the sudden death of Marilyn Monroe, what I saw were people who became profoundly enmeshed with her, and over-identified with her and her public life and persona. This was self-evident in these scenes:
The first takes place in the elevator:
Hoss: You heard about Marilyn? Poor thing.
Peggy: It's very upsetting.
Don: Can't say I'm suprised, few things I know about her.
Peggy: You don't imagine her being alone, being so famous.
Hoss: Some people just hide in plain sight.
Peggy: My mother and sister keep calling.
Don: Suicide is depressing.
Hoss: I keep thinking about Joe DiMaggio.
And later, in Roger's office:
Joan: She was so young...
Roger: Not you, too?
John: Yes, I'm just another frivous secretary.
Roger: It's a terrible tragedy. But...that woman is a stranger. Roosevelt? I hated him, but I felt like I knew him.
Joan: A lot of people felt they knew her and you should be sensitive to that.
Roger: Hey, you're not like her. Physically, a little bit, but,that don't tell it makes you sad.
Joan: This is not a joke. This world destroyed her.
Roger: Really? She was a movie star who had everything and everybody, and she threw it all away. But hey, if you want to be sad...
Joan: One day, you'll lose someone who's important to you. You'll see. It's very painful.
That last line foreshadow what happens between Roger and his wife in the episode's end.
Love this show - this episode was especially good...So, I have not read all of the entrys, so if I repeat something, sorry...
1. Betty takes the phone off the hook...here, she looks at her watch about the time the lunch started - ie, did not want to pick up the phone in case her horsey friends call asking where she is.
2. Roger keeps needling Don about what's going on because JANE told him about Don's daughter calling - Jane knew Don was not out of town, so something was up - besides, do you see Roger EVER getting to the office early? I think Jane told Roger what was going on, not vice versa.
3. Nice touch on the Roger and Jane reveal!
4. I know an alcoholic - he told me he used to lose control of his bladder because he was so smashed...
5. I think Betty wants Don to admit the truth before he can come back - she is feeling like she is crazy because she can't find any evidence to his sleeping around.
6. YES - women cried when MM died - esp. those like Miss Holloway - always trying to get credit for their brains rather than their looks - remember how devastated she was when that script reading job went from her to that new guy? Women were constantly overlooked in the workplace.
7. LOVE the Menken's bag, Sal's reaction the drink, the drawer liners, but especially...
8. The secret seapartion of the Drapers...my parents separated in the 70's and I remember not being able to tell a soul because of the shame society put on broken marriages...totally reflected here!
9. One more thing - WHO DID DON MAIL THAT BOOK TO IN THE FIRST EPISODE? DRIVING ME CRAZY HERE...
Okay, I think that's it - whew!
Margaret is the daughter who is getting married. I had to go back and watch that whole Mona scene then watch the bar sceene again. Sterling COMPLETELY turned the whole conversation around and made is seem that Don gave him the advice he gave to Don. Very peculiar.
I like reading all the comments and it always amazes me how divergent the views are.
I finally decided to sign up and add my two cents because I just can't take the Betty bashing anymore. Betty has been called every name in the book with a level of hatred and anger that I can only view as misplaced, at best, and pathological at worst. Has anyone ever heard of "blame the victim"?
I also would not go so far as to characterize her as more racist than any of the other characters (I'm African-American by the way.) If Betty was a real bigot (as opposed to just careless of anyone below her in status in a general way) she would never have tolerated Carla's advice to her, which essentially amounted to telling her to stop wallowing in her depression.
My take on the other characters:
Don - Just can't help loving this "bad boy' from the safety and privacy of my bedroom..wouldn't give him the time of day in real life..
Pete - Weasel...with just enough appeal to hold your interest...(Just admit it..don't analyze it.)
Peggy - LOVE her and rooting for her all the way
Joan - Love her too..her looks pretty much pigeon hole her into her role at the office but she does everything in her power to manage that role rather than being a victim
Roger - Get's great one liners..Didn't see the leaving the wife thing coming AT ALL..still think he really loves Mona but he's acting out a mid life crisis after the heart attacks, etc.
How they portray African-Americans - Love the subtlety..hope they don't start overdoing it and getting melodramatic..continue to treat it with the dignity and delicacy it deserves..
Sorry for the long post but it is probably my last for a long while...
I'm really surprised that Pete was interested in seeing Peggy succeed up the ladder. do you think that it was just a happy by product of his own success, so with no cost to him he can be happy for her? or do you think he wants to see her do well?
also, Jane and Roger?!? good God, I can't wait to see how Joan will react!
..... jalowe1957, I think maybe people don't realize they are overidentifying until a tragedy occurs.
I had just lost both of my parents when Princess Diana was murdered. Until that moment, I had no idea how much I had leaned on her image as a kind of beacon, so her violent death was like a shot through the heart.
Same with Peter Jennings. I had literally just lost my lifelong best friend, and took Mr. Jennings' death extremely hard. And I don't even WATCH ABC News!
Same with Mr. Rogers, who was my surrogate father when my whole family split up at age 4, etc., etc., etc.
Like Marilyn, JFK, MLK, etc., all those figures were one-of-a-kind, larger than life, and left a giant void in the culture when they passed.
What I'm saying I guess is that some people personalize the loss because it's not just their little lives that are shaken, it's the world. To them, it seems the whole world is falling apart.
I think suze is right about Freddie something more happened there. Probably brought on by years of drinking. Felt bad for Freddie. Notice he said Goodbye to Don.
MAD MEN IS THE BEST SHOW ON TV!
The ending was a shocker. Peggy is really growing too. I remember that time the Women's movement, Civil RIghts movement, Gay Rights.
you know all that will weave into the events and daily lives of all the characters.
CAN'T WAIT TILL NEXT SUNDAY!
LassLaura
My predictions -
(1) Don mailed that book to Peggy - I've posted about this many times before
(2) Rumson will come back in some form to make the others feel horrible about how they treated him (ala homeless)
(3) The "Inheritance" is not an inheritance per say. (see my post on this thread)
I hope I am right! Except about Rumson, that's heartbreaking
It's Monday morning and most subjects have been covered. A couple of things regarding Jane. I'm watching the repeat right now and Don asked Jane if she would faint giving blood and she said no, but she might cry and maybe that's why she's crying. Also, regarding her tan, remember when she came into the office and was sunburned, she would be tan by now. I can't understand why Roger would leave Mona for Jane and never left her for Joan.
If Freddie ends up on the street maybe he'll find Chauncey.
my upper middle class mother with a gazillion children had hired help - one for house and one for kids - and she did lots of the work along with them, because there was a lot to do - the point of the hired help was to help her!
oh, also, I think that Jane is so unbelievably conniving - I originally thought she'd go for Don. then Roger. then Don again. she's just throwing mud against the wall and seeing what sticks. I don't think she cares who she gets, as long it's a 'higher up'.
and Betty, why do you think she set up her friend and the young man from the stable? is it because she wants to have an affair herself and since she can't bring herself to, she can sort of play it out with someone else? or maybe she just wants to cause problems in her friend's marriage out of spite?
thoughts?
Woof!
Rachel:
It's completely possible Freddie had PTSD called shell shock back in those days. To get to the situation of killing that many people... changes you. Which may have started him drinking heavily.
Freddie probably broke down, was put into the hospital and then, rather than sending him back to his unit (most of which may have gotten killed and actually did most of the killing of those 19 Germans), they put him into the Signal Corps. (A live hero is better than a dozen dead ones and he probably felt guilty about accepting the awards.)
=====================
I thought it was interesting that Betty set up Arthur with Sarah Beth for a pre-affair lunch and then took her phone off the hook so neither could call to ask why she wasn't there. I suspect Betty was getting back at husbands in general. Apparently Raymond really was too good for Sarah Beth. Just as she said.
Next week's episode, "The Inheritance" probably refers to Betty's father being gravely ill (he hasn't been well for years) and her visit to him. Betty's father has, or at least, had a fair amount of money.
"Give a Chinaman a music lesson" = tinkling on china (a ceramic porcelain toilet). What a card!
That Roger would use Don's words to justify leaving Mona for Jane, who at best is a very, very weak reed was a huge surprise. IMHO, there is no way their relationship could last until his divorce was complete. If Jane thought the office was toxic before... I'll bet all the secretaries will be down on her now. It's one thing to have an office affair, it's quite another to break up a marriage.
Mona (Talia Balsam, John Slattery's wife) didn't look good at all in her scene at Don's office. Of course, a woman whose husband of 25 years just told her he's leaving her for his secretary probably wouldn't. She looked much better at the restaurant in "Three Sundays."
On another topic, in the photos for the next episode, there's a great one of Joan and the secretaries behind her with Hildy closest. The powers behind the thrones, so to speak.
In the other photo, Peggy's handing Pete a slice of cake at a party with presents. I wonder what the occasion is.
there was a couple good items of note here, one of the best episodes yet.
-joan's forshadowing telling roger someday he'll lose someone close to him
-for the second time we heard about bobby and the car, whatever it was he did i still wanna know
-a good line was don talking about suckering jimmy, "that was a real archibald whittman move"
-and i think betty is going to start missing don, not really having a life without him. she'll eventually give in
-i think don finds a kindred spirit in freddy, they're both generally a good smart person with a major flaw that drags them down. that's why he defends him instead of throwing him out, anaolgy intended
FreeWoman, I hope it's not your last for a while -- and I agree with you about Betty's response to Carla.
jalowe1957, excellent stuff! Reading the elevator comments in particular are really striking. Don's 'suicide is depressing' line jumps out even more than it did in the episode!
Also, hadn't even thought until reading your post about Marilyn's 'duality' that we've talked about regarding Mad Men's characters. We've discussed the Jackie/Marilyn issue, but Marilyn herself was also 'Norma Jean.' She's a bit of the 'self-made American,' like Don.
love these comments. especially the one about Joan's comment foreshadowing Roger's loss of his family. I think he probably would rather have been leaving Mona for Joan, but probably feels that he missed his opportunity with Joan. so Jane is the next best thing.
on another topic, when we were watching last night, and they had the previews, they showed Don waking up on the floor of a bedroom. I took it to be Betty''s childhood bedroom. they showed betty and Don speaking on the phone [possibly reconciling?] and then showed Betty speaking with her Dad. this made me think that he may have come with her to visit her parents and slept on the floor in her girlhood bedroom. BUT, my husband swore it was Peggy's bedroom. huh?
I must have missed Roger falling in love with Jane. When did that happen?? I thought he loved Joan. When Don said "get her out of my desk", I thought he meant that Jane told Joan he was at the hotel and Joan told Roger and he was ticked because he told ger not to tell. Anyone else get that impression? Or is he really in love with Jane.
I must have missed Roger falling in love with Jane. When did that happen?? I thought he loved Joan. When Don said "get her out of my desk", I thought he meant that Jane told Joan he was at the hotel and Joan told Roger and he was ticked because he told her not to tell. Anyone else get that impression? Or is he really in love with Jane.
Thanks, Lorantscan - Peggy as the book recipient makes sense, especially after remembering that Don visited her in the looney bin.
Duck always seemed like a jerk, but he has totally lost me since he dumped poor Chauncey in the street. Woof!
Freddy will be missed - if you think about all his advertsing comments - they were dead on and imaginative. He also saw the talent in both Peggy and Don. Poor guy...
Chris - can't figure out that Roger?Jane either. Like I posted before Jane is plain
This thread is way tooooo long. How can we start new topics and discuss each one?
"Desperate Housewives" was pretty good last night. And "Brothers and Sisters" looks OK though starting to grate on me a bit. Yes I watch and "Dexter". Taped them all and watched after watching MM twice. 4 of my favorite shows on in 1 night. Who thinks this up? Desp Housewives hasn't lost it's touch - yes it's mindless soap opera but MM still the BEST!
Chris - Jane went to Roger when she got fired by Joan, and he would get her job back and insinuated she would "show her appreciation somehow". AND Joan knew right away what would happen between Jane and Roger...When Jane showed up that Monday and Joan confronted her, Joan's last comment was something like, "There's no problem. Everything is perfectly clear."
as a pre-pubic catholic girl, one big shock of the news of marilyn's passing was the word "suicide" - then - "found dead in the nude" - whoooa - I thought she was of course a glamorous movie star but I was much more taken with Jackie - because jackie was a mother who was not depressed (like so many around me) she was always smiling and having fun with her kids - on horses, on water skis, boats, beaches, painting (like my mother and I did)
Betty set up Arthur and Sara Beth so they'd have the affair she knew she could have with him, but is too afraid to go through with. I think Betty will let Don back in the house because it will be more satisfying to be able to belittle him daily and make him suffer. I hated that Sal and Pete laughed at Freddie. Maybe a competitive agency will hire Freddie and bring the clients with him. Was that the first time Don called Sally, Salamander? I, too, have repeated, crab-duck, duck-crab. Too funny. Great observation, too, I forgot who said it, about how many people were caught on the couch this episode.
The look.... almost a double take... than Don gives Peggy that morning as they come into the office from the elevator and Peggy comments on the good fortune of not using the Platex-Marilyn Monroe ad shows that Don is blown away by Peggys professional attitude and thinking about whats good for SC...not sniveling about the death of Marilyn. He knows then that Peggy is destined to be promoted and will be a team player.
Midcenturymod: Those houseocats are available still at Sears also the real things are available on E-bay.
another little nugget after watching it again, when don puts freddy in the cab and asks him where he lives, freddy leans in to the cabbie and gives the address. and then, freddy being all drunk also gives the cabbie the apartment number.
i think at the end where don and roger are all sauced up and philosophising on life, roger giving don the old drinking buddy punch looked like a total ad lib. they look like they're trying not to laugh
Got to add my defense of Betty. Although I recognize her many, many faults, I can't seem to help pulling for her. I didn't watch the first season, so I am not influenced by "Rachel", but it seems so many people really like her that I worry Don and Betty will split up. I hope not because 1)I think JJ would leave the show at that point (what would the writers do with the character of Betty) and I think her and Don's relationship adds a lot to the show and 2) If this show is going to deal with growth and maturity of the characters (and I'm not sure what the end game is here) it would be nice to see Don come to terms with his past and having had such a screwed up family as a child salvage his one as an adult
Was it ever definitely proven that Princess Diana was murdered? I think that's a matter of dispute
Greg, I noticed that Freddie also gave the apt #. I thought it was strange.
I think we could have a pretty good argument about whether or not Don is an existentialist or a nihilist. The two concepts are fairly close in meaning, and I suspect we would bore everyone to death. But here is my take on the conversation between Don and Roger in the bar. While Don expresses his existentialist/nihilistic view of existence, Roger gets the following message: there is no meaning in existence and we're all gonna die...I might as well grab Jane on the way down. Mona ends up blaming Don for this leap, from Don's philosophic musings to the message Roger hears and the actions he takes in consequence.
Don is not judging Roger and the secy - he is mad that the secy is sh-t-disturbing in his private life. Tells him his daughter called and then buys him those shirts - no boundaries!
If Don and Betty divorce, they wont fire January Jones. Please, her and Don are the most fascinating, most complex characters on tv. Jones must be nominated for an emmy next year. Yes I will admit I am a Betty lover, but dont get me wrong I do believe some horrible stuff about her, but I mean really Don is just as worse, yet he is made into an f-ing saint here. But enough about that. I think if Don and Betty do get divorced it opens up a whole new story lines for them both. Will Don continue to have a philandering ways, even when he is rid of Betty? Will he truly be happy without her? Will he remarry somebody else, maybe a woman like Rachel and cheat on her?
Will Betty be happy without Don? Will Betty grow up "mentally" ?
Will she remarry and be happy? Will she in a more healthier envoirnment than her broken home? I mean there is alot to explore if they do get divorced. But right now I think Weiner and the writers are showing us what it would be like if they were indeed divorced. Clearly both are miserable without each other, even though Don says he isnt (which I think is total bullshit!) so right now I think its trial seperation, and hopefully next season we see something happen.
Freddie definitely has a medical condition - I would a seizure disorder because he seemed to be out of it when he was urinating his trousers and had a momentary lapse of memory just before he fell asleep.
==============================
You're the only person who's agreed with me -- I concluded seizure early on in this thread.
.....Roger Sterling has lost his mind. Jane is 25 years his junior, and is in no way prepared to be any kind of asset, or security, or the million things that Mona is to Roger. Jane doesn't even LIKE him! I thought he was a schmuck before, now I think he has a mental disorder.
Let's see how fabulous an asset Jane is when Roger has his next heart attack. She is 20 years old, will probably want children, etc., and definitely wants to have fun now, not be saddled with a guy "with health problems," in his own words.
Mona is a GEM, and Roger is DAMNED lucky to have her. Why the hell would Roger throw all he has away for a freaking KID SECRETARY?
And say what you want about Jane's "hotness," but Jane is no Joan. Jane won't be Joan in ten years. I loved someone's idea about Joan going to work for the networks writing soap operas.
From her comment about loss to Roger, it's clear Joan has lost someone very important to her. Do we know Joan's situation? Her mother and father - dead or alive? Brothers and sisters? I have a vague recollection of her mentioning something about her mother once. Some people theorized Joan might have been married and lost a husband. We know she's been "offered a few" engagement rings.
She also mentioned how she hates food next to the bed because it reminds her of hospitals.
Marilyn's death couldn't have been worse timing for Joan. First, watching the job just slip through her fingers, being diminutized by the fiance who really doesn't "get" her and probably bores the crap out of her, going toe-to-toe with this upstart Jane and losing in a big way, Roger and Jane carrying on under her nose, then, BAM - someone she obviously identified with dying tragically.
Joan can't help but identify heavily and wonder about her own fate. Marilyn was 36. Joan is 31 or 32..... she is beginning to see the downhill side of the slope....
Like other women, I'm sure, Joan has been forcibly drawn into a very abrupt and nasty mid-life crisis.
By the way, I loved Carla in this episode. She is a classy woman.
ok, so was that "I'm through with love" by Etta Jones at the end of the episode?
==============================
That is not Etta James -- that song was part of the movie "Some Like It Hot" -- MM, Tony Curtis and Jack Lemmon.
MM was singing that song as part of the movie -- I don't think, though, that is her voice; anybody know if that was her or if it was dubbed?
"I'm Through With Love" is definitely a recording of Marilyn Monroe.
Take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFNHeStx4-0
.....MadMenSuze, I also agreed with you. Two people very close to me had the grand mal seizures their wholes lives. Also, a boss of mine suddenly developed epilepsy when he had a very small stroke. As I understand it, seizure disorders (of all types) are not really that rare, they can come or go, and can be caused by a whole host of things from injury or illness to stroke to hormone changes or tumors.
Thanks to McMere's insightful comments I spent have the night reading The Times of London online...but more to the point is McM's nailing Don Draper as the walking/talking example of existentialism (not nihilism as someone hair-splitingly suggested). It is manifested in all his actions.
On a frivolous side note: I would lose no time in firing whomever is the costume consultant on this television programme, unless those decisions are meant to make a point: such as Mona looking exactly like a frump who'd be replaced by a younger woman. As a collector of fashion magazines of the period I am convinced that no woman of the time, particularly one married to a stylish advertising executive, would have worn a dress with lace doilies appliqued to its neckline. It was grotesque. Betty Draper's closet full of "loaners" are at least 8 years behind the times, Peggy is dressed as if the year were 1952 not 62, etc etc. Quite shocking in a production whose values are otherwise pretty high.
Joan identifies with Marilyn Monroe, the sex symbol who was also trapped by her image. It's a fine line, using sexuality, and then being defined by it. Remember the last scene in episode 8 where Joan's shoulder is red cuz her bra strap's too tight? That comes from having big boobs, which need to be supported and managed with the right engineering. When the strap's too tight, it's a bad sign, affects physical well-being.
Joan's loss is also about the operations job, which she loved, and the foreshadowing of disappointment at her new fiance, who wants to keep her at home eating bon bons and watching soaps, instead of analyzing them.
Jane seems "plain," but remember her deliciously criminal, manipulative, devious mind? She's all surface, and a liar underneath.
One more point: if you're gonna end the episode with Marilyn Monroe's recording of I'm Through With Love (and that was an ideal way out of that particular episode) why suffocate the credits (and the music) with pitches for coming events? I was all set to bask in Marilyn's breathy rendition and the fact of it tying everything up in a neat bow-knot....
Love this show!
I think what Joan meant when she said Roger would lose someone he loves that she meant herself. Roger really does have deep feeling for Joan and she's engaged. Now that she'll find out about Jane, Joan will be disgusted and shut Roger out completely and utltimately lose Joan, the one he loves.
Does anything think Don will actually find himself intrigued (and eventually loving) Peggy? Think about it, he respects her work. Is an independent woman (like his other flings), comes from a simple background like he does and they share several deeply persoanl secrets.
I don't think Pete was so awful with regard to Freddie. After all, as Roger said, Freddie "crossed a line." They offered him the 6 months of rehab, which he could have taken, but I think Freddie himself realized he was at the final low point and he couldn't snap back. Pete's all about business, and peeing in your pants at the office and passing out doesn't cut it.
MadMenSuze - Thanks, I was sure it was "I'm Through with Love" but it didn't quite sound like Etta Jones (not James) singing. So you may be right about it being from the "Some Like It Hot" soundtrack. I think the Jones' version came out in '62.
Hey Toby - Actually, costuming is not a frivolous topic. There are many reasons, historical and phsychological, for costume choices. For example, Mona's navy blue lace doilies (in my opinion) represent a stable home whereas Jane's attire for that scene is chaotic and colorful. And those dresses Betty pulls out are correct for that time. If they were 8 years old, they would have longer and puffier skirts. Peggy is dressed that way for a reason; a girl growing into a woman. Her clothes are going from teeny bopper 50's to a chic, tighter fit for the 60's.
.....Hi Buffy (love that!)...... I agree that Roger has some feelings for Joan. My question I guess is what is that worth, knowing what we know now about him? Like my mother used to say, "There's no THERE, there." Joan should run far and fast away from this guy - he's demonstrated how destructive he is.
I also think it's worth pointing out that like Pete, Roger at the same time has no idea how he has, and is, completely humiliating Joan. (Or maybe he does, and it's deliberate - that's debatable, but would tie in with his apparent sadistic tendencies.)
Anyone who has managed an office will recognize how devastating to Joan's image, authority and professional esteem it was for Sterling to countermand Jane's firing.
He is flaunting his attraction to Jane, who has openly defied Joan. I can't think of a worse combination to have to endure on a daily basis.
Throw in the feelings that Joan does or did have for Sterling, the hurt, betrayal, anger and humiliation she must be feeling, and I am surprised she isn't having a complete breakdown.
....bring on Carnaby Street and Mary Quant. Nicole Richie can play Twiggy.
Dry Manhattan - exactly! You're surprised Joan isn't having a complete breakdown - anger, humiliation - exactly why Roger is/has now lost her. She'll never have anything to do with him again. He'll decide in retrospect that he did indeed love her. Now he'll be without Joan and without Jane and without Mona and possibly will also lose his daughter Margaret - he'll have lost everyone and that brings us back to Joan's original comment about losing someone you love. He's come full circle.
So many folks are hard on Betty for her supposed lack of maternal skills. I don't see where that comes from. She's there for those kids, day in and out, never yells, and is patient (except the time she wanted Don to beat their son, but that was a reasoned disciplinary request, she didn't beat him herself out of anger in the moment). It's hard to be the perfect little mommy presence all the time. I had a rough Sunday with my rebellious, mouthy 15 year old and at one point vaguely recall threatening to send him to military school... But I tucked him in at night with a kiss. Remember Betty tells the kids to go to bed and she'll tuck them in? She's not the one who stepped out.
With my beloved Rachel gone this season, Don Draper has become the most fascinating character on Mad Men this season! He's an adulterer but I've liked all the women (that we viewers have been shown) he's cheated with. It's wonderful watching a man attracted to brunette, beautiful, brainy and powerful women!! For Don, power really is an aphrodisiac! Fabulous!
Then there's his mentoring of Peggy. He sees that she's hard-working, ambitious and savvy, much like himself. She wasn't born rich and has had to work hard, maybe even extra hard, because of looks-ism and sexism. And Don recognized this and rewards her. Fantastic!
There's intangibles, like, Don's respect toward people of color. That was outlined in the first scene of the first episode that he's very much a humanist. Don also hates seeing someone kicked when they're down. Witness how incensed he was at the cracks made about Freddy and how he gave Lame Duck a second chance, though Duck's turning out to be an ingrate! Plus, he's not a shit disturber, all up in other folks' business.
Yet, the most fascinating thing about Don is his relationship with his children! He's genuinely affectinate to them, full of hugs. He refused to hit his son, knowing how bad that made him feel when he was a kid. He seemed engaged in what they did, like wanting to watch Sally's ballet twirls. He's not riding their back for bullshit petty reasons!
So Don Draper's conflicted, complex, complicated...and remains sexy while doing so!
I'm thinking Joan pretty much knew the score between Sterling and Jane and that's what she was crying about when she was on that couch.
I'm with the Betty defenders. I was shocked by all the hostile comments aimed at her. The people who are convinced that she's a selfish, terrible mother should go back and watch Season 1; her increasing lack of interest in and compassion for her children has been paralleled by her descent into depression.
The thing that has impressed me most about MM is that there are no one-dimensional characters (and that includes Betty). No one is clearly good or bad. The character development has been so gradual and deliberate - most t.v. show characters are obvious and predictable. MM is a VERY satisfying exception to the general rule.
Is there anything to the name that Don uses at the card club - Tilden Katz? I feel like I'm missing something, could not make a connection.
Please correct me here, but I always thought that when Dick and the real Don were under enemy fire in the fox hole last year, that as Dick stood up and Don said to him that he had pissed himself, it was in fact gasoline on his pants, and as Dick lit a cigarette he dropped the lighter and that’s when Don was blown up and burned beyond recognition.
I wonder if one reason Don felt so loyal to Freddie was because he met Freddie while out drinking one night and Freddie brought him into SC. Even more than now, getting a job was all about networking.
Juliemadmenfan:
Tilden Katz is the name of Rachel Menken's husband. Don and Rachel had an affair last season that ended quite abruptly.
Anybody: What did Roger say to Don at the bar before he playfully punched him in the arm? I watched and listened twice and still can't make out what he said.
Toby,
Regarding Mona's dress, I agree that it was a strange design but I don't think the lace doilies made her look frumpy.
They weren't actually lace. The brilliant thing about that dress is that the doilies were a print! It's a totally modern take on what might usually be a fussy design.
At first I wasn't understanding the sheer sleeves, but then I realized that it was August (MM died on August 5, 1962). I feel like that dress was very sophisticated. It wouldn't be unlike an affluent woman who wears Marni or Dries van Noten dresses today.
I would like to say that I like Betty. I see my mom in her and kind of understand her. She was raised with wthe Cinderella fairy tale of "happily ever after." She is lonely in her marriage and wants validation and companionship from her husband. I think she would be a better mother if she wasn't a frustrated woman. My mom was sad and lonely and felt stuck, and my dad catted around and did as he pleased. Unfortunately, the kids were ignored or frustrations were taken out on us. This certainly doesn't make it right by any stretch, but I wish Don were more engaged in his relationship with Betty.
The boxer named Floyd is most likely Floyd Patterson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Patterson
Right on, Jessica! (Regarding Betty) She is home almost 24/7 with her kids and has an excellent nanny for times when she is away. Sure, she is moody, but when the kids are around she tries to hold it together. Kids are resilient and they are seeing that life is not happy happy happy everyday.
I think Betty is a very good mother ... even to Bobby...she doesnt try to be his buddy like Moms today do. She shows that there are cosequences to breaking the Hi Fi or knocking over his milk. And she and Sally do lots of things together but she doesnt let Sally call the shots. Those kids are lucky to have a stay at home Mom who cares what they are doing and not just taking the easy route with them. I remember my own mom saying "Life is not like romper room!"
Tilden Katz is Rachael Menkin's new husband...VISAN I agree with everything you said in your latest post....does anyone remember the comment Roger makes to Don over drinks...when's he's dipping into Don's business;
Roger : Did you know that BBDO hired a colored kid...what do you think about that>
Don: I think I'd hate to be hat kid...
I truly believe that their time frame for this occurance in the advertising industry is way, way offf. .. merely because my cousin was the first black MBA BBD&O hired and that wasn't til the very early 70s....
Mr G - actually, Dick (now Don) pissed himself out of fear. If it were gasoline, he would have been fried. But Thanks to you, it helps show another point of why Don sympathizes with Freddy - they both pissed themselves - embarrassing moments - and it led to life changing events.
Jimmy is the scumbag, the garbage. He's the one that picks and chooses when he gets pissed off about his wife's flings. When it suits HIM, when it's good for his career, then she can spread her legs. But now that Don is schtupping his wife, Jimmy decides to be offended. Eff that, what a slimebucket. And to top it all off by tipping her off is the worst. Turn in your man-card, you little twit. I would have knocked his block off too.
Don is a jackass for NOT confessing to the wife, and begging her forgiveness. She's rather needy, but what woman isn't ? She's so very gorgeous, so very feminine (OK, i want her myself), he couldn't do better. EXCEPT for the fact that she's very dosconnected with her kids. Not a good mother. Typical for that time period, but it's not like Don gives a crap about THAT. What DOES he care about ?
@Divayaya: Thanks! Huge Don Draper fan here!
Madmensuze and Etienne: Yes, Marilyn sang "I'm through with love" in "Some Like it Hot" (my all-time favorite comedy). I'm pretty sure it's her voice because she sang in other movies and the voice is the same in those.
And I'm very surprised that someone knows there is a singer Etta Jones, along with Etta James. Both great singers.
Step, Squish, Step, Squish. That is Freddie walking out of the office.
Great posts, and thanks for the book title that Betty was reading. Does everyone have a huge HD TV?
I noticed all the main characters lying on the couches. I was shocked at the sight of them in a prone position. Was that symbolism for the death of MM?
I also noticed that there was speculation as to why MM died. It was her own fault, or that society did this to the fragile.
I agree with Dry Martini in that Don's Dick seems to be seeping out. This will continue I bet.
I also agree with lorantscan regarding the book Don sent. It went to Peggy.
The "colored people" are coming to the forefront in the show. "Hiding in plain sight." They are privy to the private lives of their employers, more so than the friends and family. And they have the sense to keep the boundary.
Then Jane wants to insert herself into part of Don's secret. She relishes that she has this power, and shows him so by handing him the shirts. I guess she must of told Roger, Don's secret, and that was the rest of her undoing. She knew too much about him.
Peggy got promoted from a death of a career, so did Don. He wants Peggy to run with it. Pete takes the credit.
Now, Betty; I finally see how crucial it is for her to have appearances. She sets her friend up for the affair with Arthur so she won't be the only wife with problems in the "hood". How petty! She IS horribly depressed. I see Betty in me at the time my marriage was failing. I didn't think I looked like that or acted like that, but it feels like I was, now.
I used to go to the gym every morning, now, I don't go on Mondays because I need (yes, NEED) to read all of the posts, so I may put in my 2 cents.
I will be deprived when the season ends.
Poor Freddie. He will "off" himself. He isn't like Don, he can't see himself as a different person.
The drinking game of doing a shot every time a MadMan drinks would be my undoing.
.....Buffy, a little part of me is dismayed that Joan is taking the introspective sad route on all this, instead of confronting Roger about his grossly undermining her, and acting like a fool with a poptart more than half his age.
Maybe Joan knows she'll be a housewife soon, so isn't bothering, but I never pictured Joan laying down for all of this....
Anyone else in real life would likely have found another office to manage, or at least begin looking for a way out of the hole.
I don't think Joan knows WHAT she wants at this point. None if it is looking terribly appetizing to her, I'd bet.
GREAT posts on this thread by the way - really enjoying them all .... lots of new screen names.
@Boop: I love your pic of Betty Boop! She's one of my fave icons, so to say! Glad I'm not the only fan!
In the first season they show Don taking shirts out of his drawer and changing right there in the office because he is been out all night with Midge so I don't know why his secretary is buying shirts for him
After reading much of this thread, I have a few comments. Don and Peggy gravitate towards one another b/c they are both very closed, emotionally cut off people able to compartmentalize their lives. This is why denial comes so easily to each of them; they believe things did not happen. Don would rather sacrifice his marriage so that he doesn't have to "feel". To feel would destroy the construct of his life. But, that having been said, he is not an ogre, he has a code of ethics, just not morals.
Betty, she sent the guy to have lunch with her friend, b/c she too does not want to talk about or deal with what is happening to here. She sent the guy so she would not have to explain to the friend why she didnt want to go. It was a distraction and a manipulation. She took the phone of the hook so as not to have to receive a call from her friend wondering where she is.
Freddie, he is not going to kill himself. He will either, clean himself up and plug back in or he will drink himself to death. Could go either way, he is pretty far along in his alcoholism, getting clean may prove to be more than he can handle.
Marilyn Monroe's death is simply a demarcation point in history. It is foreshadowing of events to come; the beginning of the end if you will. Next comes the assasination of JFK. Likely next season if 2 year leaps are to be the norm. Next, we will transition from Hip to Hippies, but that is not until 65-67 where that crossover happens.
Jane, she is in over her head. She doesnt want this sick old man, she just wanted a little power and control over her life; remember she is now at the wise old age of 20 and no longer needs a mother.
Joan, she is far to modern and self-possesed, yet shackled by the times she lives in. Her marriage will either not happen or not work. She wants to work, and if she plays strategically, she will work her way into some career path beyond Admin. But, she has years of heart ache to live first.
Visan, JimK, et al.: I realized after I posted last night that Archibal Whitman would be Don's bio dad and not his stepdad. I wish there was an "edit your post" option for after you've posted and you want to fix a mistake!
I have to say that I understand all the secretaries who were crying over Marilyn. It's a little silly, but I think it's an honest reaction for people who connect with a celebrity. Certain celebrities are public, larger-than-life figures and in a way you think you know them, so when one of them dies it's like you've lost someone you know. If it's a celebrity that you are a fan of, it's almost like you've lost a friend (not a close one obviously) or someone you look up to. When John Ritter died unexpectedly, I felt horrible for his family and was bummed about it for several days.
Beyond the badass move of setting up her friend for an affair with stableboy (which I find pretty intriguing), I don't see any reason to react negatively to Betty. She just found out that her husband cheated on her, she's COMPLETELY DEPRESSED, and she's trying to figure out what she wants to do from there. She's in a pit of despair and not able to deal with her regular responsibilities (kids, home) - I have depression in my family, and I know how debilitating it can be. Thank goodness she has Carla, and hopefully she'll be able to get out of her depression soon.
About Joan - I believed she dumped Roger and has absolutely no romantic feelings left for him. Remember last season when they were in the hotel and she was talking about how she loved her single life? He tried to get her to have her own place and "play house" but she refused. Joan thought of this as a fling. She even mentioned he would want a new girl - "I hear the 1961 models are coming out soon." When Roger then had the heart attack and she went in to do all the telegrams, Cooper told her not to waste her youth, ie, spending time with Roger...Yes, she was sad when he got the heart attack, but I believe she took Cooper's advice, stopped wasting her youth and moved right along to hunting for a husband.
Cad men - Jane says, "I thought you needed more shirts for your rotation" or something like that...
What is the deal with Don and the shirts ?
Re: Bette's depression: She is, I guess, I don't think clinicaly however, but rather situationally. I think she questioning everything; meaning, her life is not rolling out as it was expected to. Marriage, kids, housewife in the suburbs, etc. She is nearing thirty and as her friend discovered, is bored. She effectively is living alone. Don is never "there"; not often physically, but in no way is he there for her emotionally. It is "crazy-making" to have a partner who denies everything and refuses to discuss feelings. And intuitively Bette knows this, and it is coming to her consiously now.. THAT is what seeing Jimi's UTZ commercial was about.. that, she is not crazy, but everyone around her is denying everthing, and making her question her own sanity. thus the shrink, who is useless and freudian.
I don't understand that if all these Betty defenders are insisting that she has some moral authority that it's "OK" for her to set up friends to have an affair. And it's also "OK" for her to stir shit in someone's else's marriage because she's depressed? WTF?
That's some twisted shit! She's wackadoo!
If I'm the only person on this forum to call out SAB's ridiculousness, so be it! She has no more "higher ground" to stand on than any of the other characters!!
Can we go over the Roger and Don conversation about Don't going home? I'd like to be sure I understood correctly. Also, (because of the sound issue) I didn't hear how much info Don gave to Jane on his situation with Betty.
I also thought that it was gasoline that caused the explosion and not Dick wetting his pants.
Could you believe the way Sal laughed at Freddie?
The shirts: could it be as simple as the speach that Joan gave to a new sec'y in season one, "...have a bottle of something, draper drinks rye. as well as a needle and thread and some band-aids...etc." Was she just trying to be helpful and ingratiate herself at the same time?.. I dont know if she had inside info from Roger, b/c I dont think Roger knew what was up yet or not.. but then again.. that is possible too. as for them coming from Menkins.. they probably had some trade. or it was on her way to work, or who knows.
What the heck is going on with the timing of my posts? It's off!
Thanks for the Tilden Katz clarification 0 can;t believe I let that get by me.
HELLO _ CLAYTON NEUMAN - FIX THIS FORUM!!! It stinks - it's all out of sequence and quite frankly utterly annoying! Please, I beg u
Joan might have suggested that Roger get another, younger girlfriend and that he and Joan would break up eventually, but that didn't stop her from having real feelings for Roger. She was devastated by Roger's heart attack. She's irritated by his current behavior, however.
As for the shirts, Don did this more last season, but the shirts are kept in a drawer in his office for when he doesn't have a chance to go home and change (i.e. he was out tomcatting with a mistress). Jane went over the line with the shirts, acting like she understands his current situation and expects him to be having more nights out with women (maybe her) since he's separated.
Visan - I don't think it's morally "okay" for Betty to set her friends up for infidelity. I just think it's intriguing. I think she feels betrayed by Don and wants to test her friends to see if everyone in her world will be unfaithful. It's perverse and twisted, just like many of the things characters do on this show. :)
What I meant about the explosion...gasoline indeed was in the foxhole for some reason - maybe the Real Don spilled it as he was jumping into the foxhole - so it was there. But because Dick brushed his pants with his lighter in hand, he did not catch on fire, so I think he really wet himself. However, the lighter dropped on the ground, igniting the trail of gasoline, leading to the fuel tank as Real Don was trying to douse the firey trail with dirt.
350 posts - c'mon here!
Like an earlier poster said, one of the most revealing thing to me in last night’s episode was Don’s telling Roger that he was “relieved” that his marriage was in the state that it’s in. At first this is surprising, given his posture in the closing shot of the last episode (slumped in a chair, alone, dismayed that ‘it’ had come to this) and his waking up in a lonely hotel room at the beginning of last night’s show. But it occurred to me—and I’d be interested to know what others think—that Don, given his personality, the power dynamics in his marriage, the time period, etc., could have easily just gone back home if he had really wanted to. What’s to stop him from saying, “Betty, I’m sorry that you’ve got these suspicions about me, but this is my house and these are my kids. We can work on this together or you can leave (which, of course, she can’t), but I’m not going anywhere.” That he leaves with little, if any argument (his line last night was something to the effect: ‘I’m not going to argue with someone who’s made up her mind’, meaning, in Don’s manipulating way, ‘I’m not going to argue’—because he’s not interested in winning that argument!), together with what he told Roger, now make me think he prefers, at least for the most part, being separated.
OMG! We have to break out the team rachel and team Betty shirts. I have know doubt Rachel is coming back. All hell is going to break loose on this blog. Visan: you drive me crazy but I luv your humor you are one funny lady.
Hello everyone.
First thing, remember after Roger's heart attack, he was in the hospital crying like a baby on Mona's bosom? I was thinking what an idiot. After boning Joan and those girls in his office, he cries on his wife. She was there to rehabilitate him and bring him back into "working order". You think one would have some gratitude. What is some 20 year-old girl going to do that your faithful wife hasn't. What about when you and the girl move in and think your are going to be all happy??
You know what happens, life happens. And you are there, with someone you think it would be so great with, and stress happens and you are cheating again. These people are trapped into the flawed logic that "the grass is always greener".
Real people take their vows seriously and think beyond the level of the brain-stem. Giving into sexual urges like a dog in heat. For shame, Roger!
DON & ROGER'S CONVERSATION: Don was saying that it was a relief that his marriage might end. It is exhausting living a double life, and all in all, he would just rather live life (remember the beat-nik girlfriend in the villiage) then try to live up to the life that is expected, i.e. marriage, family, suburbs. Bette wants more than he is able to give. Don is weak, he does what is expected, he is expected to be the happy family man, he is. A woman wants to sleep with him he does. His boss wants to get drunk, he does. Don is a lost little boy; lost in relationships...he would rather bale and say it never happened then stay and sort things out.
About the shirts ... it might mean nothing as noted by Tara. There are so many nuances in this story line that sometimes I think some must be red herrings just to make you think there's something big to it and ultimately it leads to nowhere. Yet, others do actually come back into the story line. I think that's part of what's so addicitve about this show. It leaves you just a little bit uncomfortably off balance and wondering...and that's why we come back the next week.
Given the lack of emotional sophistication of these men, after 25 years, their wives b/come their mothers, and they need to date 20 yr old girls who are equal to their maturity.
Susanne, chopin47 & Chesterton--I agree with your comments on Marilyn Monroe. My upbringing was most similiar to Peggy--pre-Vatican II Catholic. Hollywood women like MM and Jane Mansfield were considered--for lack of a better word--skanks. Not idolized. Like I posted earlier, there was shock at her early death but no tears, nothing even close to Princess Diane. It was years later that we learned about her involvement with the Kennedys. I agree with the person who posted earlier that the death of MM was used as a historical point of reference, and a precursor to the death of President Kennedy--which was the most memorable event in my young life at the time! Who can forget the wall to wall TV coverage, unheard of at the time. But I digress....
I'm with Lucky Strike regarding the muffled dialogue. Seems like too many scenes are poorly mic'ed.
.....boop, you are right about Jane. It was her usual GALL (oh, callow youth) to be so presumptuous and invade her boss' privacy. It's not like they've worked together for years - she's new! If I were Draper, I think I would very much resent that, and find a way to get her off the desk anyway.
Very Visan, Self-absorbed Betty is passing along what Unfunny did to her. He crossed the line of acceptability by involving her and the kids, and I think Betty's former values about right and wrong and fidelity are being stretched and bent.
About Arthur and Sara Beth, SAB probably figures, hell, they're not married, so why not? Someone should be having fun.
I'm not defending Teflon Man, or putting the blame on Unfunny, but he had to know how devastated SAB and the children would be. No wonder Draper decked him, and he deserved it.
....VV....and good point about the higher ground.... if she's smart, she'll pull herself together and make the most of what she does have. Her position could be a LOT worse.
I loved how the bag of shirts Jane the Homewrecker got for Don was marked "Menken's." Nice memories of Rachel there.
On a separate, note, there's a fun comparison between "Mad Men" and "Bewitched" (another show about an ad man) here: http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/8175/50/
Dry M - Sara Beth is a long-time married. She talks about her husband Raymond and how her shrink has diagnosed her as "bored". I guess Betty thinks Arthur will the cure for her boredom and remove the temptation to cheat with Arthur as well.
Newbie poster here, have left a few comments on other threads.
DD is a complex character for sure...at first, I hated him, then was alternately rooting for and disgusted by him. One thing that keeps bothering me is that although he seems to have genuine kindness for his children occasionally, he is still not nurturing his relationship with Betty. It's difficult for me to think of DD as a "good father" (as some posters insist) when he disrespects their mother. The best thing he could give Bobby & Sally is a good example of what a man can be - sadly, he's not capable of that, at least not yet (I'm holding out some hope that DD can redeem himself eventually - but I don't think that will happen). I hope he is starting to see that his actions have consequences for his children, too. They are starting to have to "pick up the tab" for his dysfunction - though I realize people were not psychologically aware then as they can be now, and if someone said this to him, he would just give his stoic stare and say "I don't know what you're talking about, you're the one with a problem."
Also, one item regarding "authenticity" - for as much as these people drink morning, noon, & night, shouldn't they be acting drunker? They are constantly throwing back the sauce, yet don't seem to be physically affected much! I know when I have a few stiff ones, I start speaking slower or stumbling into walls like Petra! The only indication of I've really seen of alcohol effects were last night when they seemed a little giggly going into the casino. They never seem to have hangovers, either. Maybe it's just another way that Don always stays in control...although there are chinks in the armor that are getting harder to hide.
I like to tell folks, this show can be such a downer. And if you, I, we, us don't laugh at the nutty behavior of some of these characters, this forum can become quite cloudy!
That's how the nicknames came about! Still trying to get a good one for Peggy....Hmmm....Thoughts?
Freddie's "goodbye" was the strongest thing I came away with. With no identity but his career, I think he's going to kill himself.
Don's swing at Jimmy was one of the most "real" and spontaneous things I've seen him do on the show. He's usually so secretive and controlled.
Betts is a person in pain, not because of her own doing. It really sucks when someone you devoted your life to and were supposed to be "happily ever after" with is not the person you thought they were.
Sorry for clogging the posts.
Visan, thanks for the nod to betty boop. I was called that thru out my life. I hated it.
Now I embrace it. The comments of "my mom's name is B, or my aunt's name is B", got very old for me.
One must note that Betty actually got dressed and primped to go to the stables. She is THAT motivated to see someone fall. That is why she was so "un-sad". She had a big reason to feel good (at someone else's expense).
Misery loves company.
BTW, I love Betty's outfit when she rides. She is impeccable!!!!!!!!!
Dobiegirl - oh, there's been a few hangovers...watch how often they guzzle the aspirins and Alka Seltzer... LOL
Visan, how about Mother Superior?
Yes, Lucky Strike, I can't hear everything either. I chalk it up to a 10-year old "antique" TV. I always keep the closed-captioning on.
Visan:
Just call her Ponytail.
LassLaura - that's true, I've seen the aspirins and Alka Seltzer a couple of times. My hangovers don't seem to be remedied by those things, maybe I should lay off the 151 Rum ;)
Interesting insights from everyone on Betty's plans for Arthur and Sara Beth. I didn't see any malicious intent, but I appear to be wrong on that one.
.....boop, and this isn't just a question for you, it's a question for everyone who takes exception to anyone else's posts or opinions.
I don't understand this concept of clogging the thread. While I think it's nice sometimes to just lurk and make room for other voices, isn't this a case of "the more the merrier?"
People get all pissy over long-winded posts, but isn't that the point of a public forum? I love reading them, if the person is saying something interesting and literate. I salaam the amazing brains on this thing. In my case, it takes me a long, winding road to distill to my point, and I'm working on that.
I've touched on many other forums of all kinds, and have concluded this one is kind of unique in that almost everyone on here is really intelligent, interesting, kind and/or funny. I would say I wish this forum was slightly more humorous, but that's my big thing. More humor, less negative anything.
The great thing about the icons is, if you know that person is boring or irritating, you can skip right over it. Everyone is here in good faith, I doubt anyone is intentionally being boring or irritating, so what's the big deal?
And the whole snarky objection thing about various opinions - they are opinions, not The Bible. Friendly written sparring should be encouraged, shouldn't it?
Sorry in advance for whatever label is going to be put on me for writing this, but it's kind of been bugging me.
I thought getting more traffic and voices on here was the whole point. (Call me Nutz.)
Dry,
Re: >I don't understand this concept of clogging the thread. While I think it's nice sometimes to just lurk and make room for other voices, isn't this a case of "the more the merrier?"
TOTALLY, but some have problems reading?
I have poor self esteem?
I did lurk this season, and last for a bit, but my mouth/brain thought better of that.
I am so much a fan of this show, I can't help myself.
I do try to limit myself because I don't want to be a blow hard, or a narcissist and conntrol these here posts.
baub67-Roger says, "Looks like it's you and me huh?" before he hits Don on the shoulder.
.....boop, STOP! I love your posts and you have more than plenty to say. It wouldn't be the same without you, or anyone else on here, for that matter. All you lurkers, get out here!
For the record, even the ones that aren't quite as readable still have great thoughts and ideas - it just takes more effort to understand, and I don't skip those either.
There is room for everyone, and if someone gets a little wordy, well, big deal, as long as the attitude and intention is right.
One of the reasons I stick to one icon is that I want people to know me, and that I'm not really a blow-hard or control freak, just that I love to talk (write). I talk fast, I write fast (sometimes too fast), I love to poke big fun, and I love making friends.
Also, I'm a Gemini, so I'm writing for two!!
Anyway, sorry if I'm clogging or digressing - maybe I should call this post "me me me!" Ha.
I called her "Preggy" on a couple threads.
Wow! So many posts. It took an hour just to read!
I tried to read everything but I didn't notice anyone mention the possible connection to the newspaper headline reading, "MM Commits Suicide" to a future MadMen(MM) suicide.
I had the sound off when the show opened because I was on the phone and I was making the connection to a MadMan, not Marilyn Monroe right away. Did anyone else think that?
Lots of great posts. Yes, Betty is showing her true colors now! How manipulative!
Roger and Jane? I think Roger is a Silver Fox, but I'm 40- Who's your daddy, Jane?! :D
Is Betty and/or January Jones pregnant? I noticed very few shots of her belly ... and sometimes she did look pregnant. Her belly was concealed in some shots ... as if to block the view purposefully.
It's good to read so many POVs! As long as it remains respectful and fun and humorous (and maybe raunchy!), it's all good!
I remember when Karen Carpenter died. That was shocking and sad too. We heard about it in the morning and all the radio stations played Carpenters music all day. We were listening all day while working, and just remembering.
I heard a song the other day on the radio that would fit the show ...Jack Jones "Wives and Lovers"... recorded in 1963.
Its interesting to observe that Don has alot of compassion and sense of fairness for other people but not for his wife and family. He tries to help his co-workers, but to his distressed wife he can only say ' what is it you want Betty?Then he turns his back on her and walks out. Not even attempting a re-conciliation. Its clear to me now that he does not love his wife.
What was just as disturbing was the cold way Don treated his younger brother in season 1. The brother clearly loved him, yet Don refused to acknowledge he knew him. Don was the cause of his brothers sucide. I don't think he'll be able to destroy Betty though. At least I hope not. Don is an empty suit.
I agree with some of the previous posts that I just got a chance to read. Betty was indeed being manipulative. We do not know her motive though. And was what she did so horribly wrong? It is not like she set up the death of Marilyn...
Maybe she has an 'interesting experiment' going on of her own. She isn't holding anyone at gunpoint and telling them to "do it"! Perhaps she is just seeing how human nature works, testing the boundaries of marriage and desire. Is it really that easy to stray? We shall see what happens with Sara Beth and Pony-boy.
As for Joan, something is amiss with her this season for sure, hopefully they will reveal a little more soon.
I finally got to watch an episode during it's real time air date!!! Woohoo!!! Hurricane Ike's power drain put a damper on all things electricity based.
Question: Did Betty's set-up of the affair have to do with revenge? Her friend's comments during the dress-borrowing scene indicate that Betty may see Don in her friend: the friend is bored with her "perfect" husband. The fact that Betty purposely set up a way for the afffair may mean that she has plans to destroy her friend (by pulling a Jimmy Barrett type reveal to the friend's husband) and then Betty can feel vindicated since she cannot rake Don over the coals without burning herself.
Also, Roger's daughter, Margaret, will probably not be too hip on the idea of her father divorcing Mona to marry Jane since Jane is only slightly older than Margaret. Roger's comment to Don (in the bar) was that the reason for marriage was children, that the reason why for sticking in a marriage was for the sake of the kids. Now that Margaret is old enough to be married herself, Roger no longer has a reason to stay married to Mona. What Roger hasn't calculated is losing his daughter. That seems to be at least part of Joan's comment to him about someday knowing what it feels like to lose someone you love. Add in the loss of Mona, and Roger may just learn how shallow his life can be since Jane (a younger version of Joan?) will not be able to be a "new" Mona. Just think about what Roger's life would be like if he marries Jane and she ends up pregnant. Jane is much more "street-smart" and would know about Roger's wandering penis. She knew enough NOT to play Joan's game of giving the milk away for free. Her traffic light color-block dress sort of screamed her "Go, Slow Down, Stop" approach with Roger. Her tearful "princess" act when Mona came out of Don's office compared to her flashing skin act with the office frat boys in an earlier episode means that Jane is quite aware of how to play the game.
Another thing. Don is loyal, but his loyalty seems to be directed towards talent, not the traditional things like family, home, marriage, etc. It partially explains why he feels nothing with respect to his affairs--either towards the women he sleeps with or Betty. His own childhood may have caused him to view tradional things as unstable and therefore not worry of loyalty. So he defends those things that have brought him a sense of safety or escape. Peggy is a non-traditional female even though her clothes suggest otherwise. She is very much a child (her "I love Freddie" comment), but she also thinks outside the box (her analysis of MM's death and the impact it could have had on Sterling-Cooper vs. all of the other females in the office). So Don is loyal to Peggy, but only to a point. Freddie is also quite childlike, untouched by the world. (The MM subplot of the storyline seemed to serve as an obvious way to highlight the childish quality of various characters.) Contrary to his traditional clothing, Freddie also isn't the "man in the gray flannel suit" (Jimmy's comment) who plays it safe--he's been at the Sterling-Cooper agency since Roger's father was the headliner, killed enemy soldiers, and recognizes talent (Peggy). So Don can be loyal to Freddie, but only to a point. Don, whose son correctly pointed out a few episodes ago that Don needs a new daddy, is very non-traditional in that the ideas of "family" and "home" and "marriage" provide him with a framework to operate, not a sense of joy. His childhood was devoid of joy, so he may be subconsiously seeking a return to some sort of "ideal" about childhood. The hobo from last season suggested a non-traditional path, and in his own way, Don is following that path. In addition, Roger suggested that Don remember what it was about Betty that first caught his eye, but it would seem that Don didn't really love Betty even then. She was a means to an end, a game piece that he had to have because "tradition" required he have the right kind of wife, but Don has habitually resisted worshipping tradition. He obeyed its rules early on in his life, but he seems to see that doing so only gave him a gilded cage. The world's rules are destroying him. (Another MM allusion?)
The blood drive. Blood is life, yet all of these characters are like walking zombies who go through the motions of living without actually living. They have assumptions about what real life is supposed to be (Pete's and Trudy's previous conversation about "what's all this for?" with respect to the apartment and lifestyle if there are no kids really stands out as an obvious example). The mid 60s showed that the those assumptions weren't the whole answer, and JFK's death will solidify that when Camelot is destroyed.
The fairy tale is about to end without a happily ever after.
.....niccicola, your post about Draper feeling so bad, yet saying he is relieved made me realize something....you're right that it doesn't quite add up.
I think Draper might be confused.....I don't think Draper realizes that maybe it's not the marriage and family life that is such a burden. It's trying to do all that and lead the double life. Maybe.
The Two Dons.
Just a thought...
How interesting is Betty's reaction to Don's cheating?
Instead of drinking, or taking pills, or eating, or having a get even affair, or cutting the left arm off of every one of Don's suits like you might expect, the writers in their infinite wisdom do something much more intriging instead:
She let's herself go.
She uses menial housework in order to find some sense of accomplishment. Because a freezer can't reject you.
Then, she manipulates the two riding buddies into a meeting hoping it would lead them into something more. Very passive aggressive.
I love it!
Mad Men is a great show, although I am not sure I understand the title.
I am glad to see that the posters here have at least some sympathy for DD. Oftentimes, married men committing adultery are vilified. Don's character is closer to reality. Men in his situation are usually racked by guilt and ambivalence, just as he is. Women usually believe that it should be so easy for married men to resist the temptation of another woman. Women just don't really understand the dynamics. Don doesn't want to hurt his wife and children, but he feels an emptiness that only illicit sex can fill up. Sadly, it is only a temporary fix. And Betty doesn't understand him or men in general, at all.
She will probably learn a great deal from her friend.
LassLaura: The book Don was sending in the first episode this season was Frank O'Hara's Meditations in an Emergency. I would guess that it would be Midge to whom he was sending it; she was bohemian, and O'Hara was one of the poets rather admired by them. I think he was fond of her, but realized she was really in love with someone else.