The Other Mrs. Draper!!?? Is she a southpaw, like Betty? Not a big deal that Dick/Don tells her more than Betty. He tells every woman more than Betty. Poor little Sally.
Well several folks Nailed the person Don was going to go Visit. The Real Mrs Draper and she a true friend to him. And he's a connection to her past, for her remembering her husband.
Betty is "mommie dearest". What is up with pulling Sally by the ponytail? And why is she acting all high and mighty with the friend? She was the one that set her up with the guy from the stables and KNEW what was going to happen. She wanted it from the guy herself. No wonder Don runs around on her all the time!
There has to be a 3rd season. There is no way to tie up all these loose ends in another episode. I was sure last week that Don/Dick was going to drop off the face of the earth. Now I'm not so sure.
Yes, the beginning was right after she confronted him at the car dealer. She was nervous because she didn't know what had happened to her husband and why this man was using his name and id.
Don maintains his relationship with Anna, Betty tears her's ( friendship ) apart. And Greg is boiling over Roger and wants to have her (Joan) like Sterling has her.
Im so pissed right now! That soft ass doc just freakin raped Joan! What happened to the joan we know. If anyone can recall on one of the episodes when Joan was sitting on the bed and was rubbing her shoulder were her bra strap was. He was hitting on her then. Hes a damn abuser and she is going to accept this?
Wow, Don was married to Dons wife? What's up Doc? He seems really messed up. When Joan wanted to take control in the bedroom he couldn't deal with it. Then he basicly raped Joan in Witman's office.I can't read all the posts from all the open threads . Apparently someone nailed the who Dick was calling. I was personally at a loss.Still watching the show. Comment later.P.S. When the show started with The Hall of the Mountain King, I was trying to remember the tune. Then did, Shoul have looked at the title first. Lol. Still not sure how that relates to the show yet. Someone explain.
I really think that Roger is going to end up Joan's savior in all this. I don't know why, but I do.
Nice to see that Don took care of the real Mrs. Draper. He needs to stay in contact with her more - she seems to be his rock. He built his life on fantasy; he seems more comfortable with people who know who he really is.
The entire Joan story is killing me.
I am sad to see her lose her strength and self. It has been a slow decline and I want her to prevail!
When Don met the mechanics- was that a flash back?? Why did he say he was looking for a job and introduced himself as Dick? I went back and forth between thinking it was a flash back and present day. Thoughts?
Good for Peggy! I think her story line is the negative image of Joan's. They are parallel because Peggy is going for her career, not focusing on family or marriage and she seems lonely.
Like Pete.
Like Betty.
Like Joan.
They're all sad! Like Peggy said before, "It's hard for everyone."
MadMenSuze, I agree - it's Don's baptism, or his resurrection as Anna told him the cards said.
I love the first Mrs. Draper and I'm so glad she and Don/Dick are friends. This is the first episode where the man acted like a decent normal human being. I want more of the relaxed Don.
Peggy - you go, girl! Loved Alice Cooper's remarks to her brother and to esp. to Roger about his children. Haha.
Betty must be pregnant - how they will get hold of Don? I can't believe the merger will go through - I think the Brits will back out and then Duck will be history.
Congrats to the posters who nailed that Don would be visiting the blonde lady from the car dealership.
I agree with you MadMenSuze regarding Don being newly bapitzed in the ocean. Maybe he will rid himself of his sins and begin again with a fresh start. De javu?
Pete's blue pajamas , I think this one is better!
Pete: "How did you swing this (office)?"
Peggy: "I’m sleeping with Don. It’s really working out."
HAHAHA.
I really liked this episode, it's restored my faith in the show. The last 3 episodes prior to this one have been lacking.
I think the *real* Mrs. Draper is the sanest woman yet to grace the show, though the scene in which the recently-assaulted Joan answeres Peggy's wedding querry, followed by Betsy guilt-gifting Sally renewed my empathy for both characters. That Betty enjoyed hearing her stable-mate's friends anguish, I do think she thought she whole thing innocent, just like giving the boy a lock of her hair. The featherlight world of a beautiful woman.
I LOVED when Joan told the men, "he's fine, he said get back to work" when asked if she'd heard from Draper. The delivery was perfectly deadpan Joan.
Ya'll,. I don't get why Roger told Burt's sister, when she reminded him he had "children to think of" (regarding his windfall), "No, I only have just the one..." Huh? I thought he had a son and a daughter, or did his daughter disown him due to the impending divorce?
Great show! The ending reminded me of "Death Takes a Holiday" mixed with "A Star is Born".
My head is spinning. When all these story lines get to the cliff they are gonna make me jump off! I hope Don/Dick is not thinking he's gonna end it all in the Peaceful Pacific.
P.S.
I loved that the kid as playing from the Peer Gynt Suite on the piano - and that they had The Day The Earth Still on the television. Those writers are sly ones.
Joan, get rid of that idiot twerpy doctor. I don't care if he is going to make a million a month as a chest surgeon - he has no consideration or respect for you and your feelings. Give him the high heel right in the keister.
Don/dick has been baptized in the water , but from what specifically? Lord knows he's got enough sins to atone for. I never caught Mrs. Draper before, only in the recap at the begining of the show tonight. She's says at one point now there will be two Mrs. Drapers. I have had three Mrs. Draper's as my mom's. What a joke.
ldraper :"Don" was married to Mrs. Draper in San Pedro. Dick Whitman needed to get a divorce. Or legally on paper he would be known as a bigamist. Remember he was using "Don's" social security, etc. to get a driver's licence. That's how the real Mrs.Draper, Anna, found Dick at the car dealership.
Ad wasn't Betty mean to poor little Sally? Geez! Betty smokes! Of course, litte Sally would want to imitate her mother! That's a natural thing for a little girl to do!
And Betty throwing her in a closet!
And then, Betty being mean to her friend on the phone, when Betty, herself, set the whole thing up?!?!
Don will be back at the near end of the next episode, I can feel it.
He felt he made a mess of his Draper life and went to Anna for answers. She gave them to him, and he's ready to start again, knowing he isn't alone.
It makes me feel good to know he did right by the first Mrs. Draper, and she's been good to him.
I feel so bad for Joan. Her fiancee thinks she's "been around" (she has) but that turned her into trash for him. I feel Roger will have a hand in saving her, but when?
Haha! Yes, I loved Peggy's line too, about sleeping with Don. Classic.
And how about Dick fixing that chair for the real Mrs. Draper?
Remember the Betty chair, and how Don wouldn't fix it? Guess nagging really doesn't work after all...just have your husband blown up accidentally and have his buddy take on his identity. House in CA + chair fixed= nirvana ;O)
Peg4Prez, Roger has one daughter, Margaret. I think Coop's sister was being sly when she made her "children to think of" comment, alluding to Roger's 20-year-old fiancee, Jane.
And why was Betty bleeding? Is she having a miscarriage? I mean, women usually know when "that time of the month" is coming, so we don't have accidents like that.
So, is she pregnant and doesn't realize it? Because she is waaaaay to young to be going through menopause (which causes irregular bleeding).
Of course theres going to be a third season......seems like everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty" I love her new attitude and persona....the whole first season was all about her being a child but this second season is all about her growing up symbolized by her period coming on this is her grow up season.....the third season will be an adult betty. Does anybody agree with my logic?
Of course theres going to be a third season......seems like everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty" I love her new attitude and persona....the whole first season was all about her being a child but this second season is all about her growing up symbolized by her period coming on this is her grow up season.....the third season will be an adult betty. Does anyone agree with my logic?
The end - Don walking into the ocean.... perhaps an allusion to the end of Kate Chopin's "The Awakening?" The protagonist frees herself from the constraints of a restrictive society and ultimately, after discovering her true self, commits suicide (is reborn) by shedding her clothes and walking into the ocean.
We're wondering if anyone can identify the song when dick/don was walking into the ocean. Can't believe that jerk raped Joan. Hope she finds herself and teaches him a thing or two. Betty can't be pregnant - poor little Sally realized her mom was bleeding. That little girl went through a lot this episode. Like the reference to Betty being Mommy Dearest. She's a witch.
I have never commented in this community, but have watched the show since its first season. But after tonight's episode, I felt the need to post on this board. I was greatly disturbed by the assault on Joan by her fiancee. When she glanced over to the couch, during the ordeal my heart fell to the pit of my stomach. Instantly, I flashed back to her weeping on the couch, after learning of Marilyn Monroe's death. If Joan's commits suicide, words will not be able to explain how sadden I will be to see this character leave the show.
Joan, in my opinion, with the exception of Don/Peggy who actually have any integrity in that office. I do realize that all these characters have had affairs with various characters on the show, but have still maintained some dignity in the process. Don did cause me to loose some respect for him by sleeping with Bobbie. However, this was made up by his treatment of Mrs. Draper. These characters for me remind us that people are human and will make mistakes, but the key is learning from them and moving forward. Don has come upon a crossroads, and this also holds true for Peggy/Joan. I just hope the writer's allow us to continue to see all these characters grow through all their ups and downs.
Sorry for the really long post. I just think it would be an injustice for all the many viewer's and Christina Hendricks to be written off this show. I don't want to see Joan become some tragic individual after this ordeal.
Peg4Prez No it was Duck that had the girl & boy. Roger had the one daughter who was interested in dressing in the latest outfits & that any thing "Dad" said was boring & old fashioned.
Did I hear Sally say to Betty "Mommy, you're bleeding?" I am wondering what's happening -- is it possible she's very early into a pregnancy and maybe miscarrying?
I heard Betty reply, "Let me go and change." Hmmm...
Lucky Strike; I think in so many words thats what Bert was saying. His sister is so damn straightfoward, other than her little racist movement she seems like she would have the office in better care.
Burt is not liking the merge, why did they do that anyway, because of Roger? Or was it the Duck deal?
I sure hope Jaon leaves that creep! I'm feeling she really wants to talk to someone. Oh Don starting over, I don't understand if the hot rod scene was now or the past either? He sure is relaxed and a different person around Anne. And to answer someones question, Anne is not his wife, remember he is Dick, she was married to Don. I really can't stand Betty anymore! Bitch!
Everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty". I love her new attitude. The first season was all about Betty being a child in an adult body. I think this second season is about her growing up. This growing up can be symbolized by her period coming on in this episode. I think the third season we will see an adult Betty. Does anyone agree with my logic?
jeri18 thanks for the clarification. Sometimes it's just so late at night for me that I miss little things. Thanks. What's the deal about Anna. Drapers legs? Polio?
Don seems like he is becoming rejuevanted and trying to see where he should go from here on. He needs to recollect some things and put the peices together to see where they all fit.
chopin47-That WAS cool with the kid tinkling the song on the piano.
So the Dr. had been fuming about Joan's sex life before him and when they were in the office, he just exploded. Dump him, Joan! I hope Laura Petrie is right and Roger steps up. But he asked Jane to marry him so.... He really didn't treat Joan much better except he didn't attack her. It seemed clear that he was never going to marry her. She was just sex to him.
I just rewatched the preview for next week, and I retract my comment about "I can't do it". I think Betty is having bleeding from a pregnancy and it's the pregnancy she is thinking she "can't do".
I don't think Betty has "grown up" in this season, if anything she's regressed. I think she's finally coming to terms with her flawed marriage. I'm wondering if she will let Don have another chance. Next season we may be watching her look for a new man...
Well...this was quite interesting....love Peggy's line to Pete "....I've been sleeping with Don and apparently it's working". Love that she just spoke right up for herself and got what she wanted and deserved.
..this thing about Dick/Don...well his past caught up with him before he ever got to Sterling Cooper....this woman is the real Draper's wife and because he assumed Draper's identity he was then married to her prior to becoming married to Betty....love the way that she appears to be the only person he has had a real relationship with ...give and take and he smiles like he almost never did with Betty...who I think is really loosing it...the stress of this separation is really causing her to abuse the kids...pulling Sally to the closet by the hair and then locking her in and as a supposed antedote to that buying her the riding boots...an act typical of chronic physical abusers....I don't know about that girl betty...
Just loved Bert Cooper's younger sister ..whichever poster said she should be running the place hit the nail on the head....
...Is Pete loosisng his frickin' mind...that boy is emotionlly unbalanced and immature...thowing expensive food off the balcony...
...like i said earlier...Don has gone West to recreate himself and find some inner peace....he may yet reconcile with Betty but I bet they move to the west coast....and that their relationship becomes re-built on a basis that has more truth and equity in it....
giveprops: I've thought the same thing about Betty. She's growing up and becoming more jaded. Meanwhile, one would guess by the final scene that Don is "coming clean". If and when he goes back East, it's going to be a really odd dynamic between the two of them - they are both very different people than when they were last together.
And the scene with Joan in Draper's office was horrific and sad. She's losing her identity with that guy.
Pete is such an emotional 13year old.
Burt's sister during lunch was just cautious about speaking in front of Cleveland.
Anna really cares for Dick Whitman, she wants nothing from him and everything for Him, a true friend.
As i mentioned he is a link to her past, an attachment to her Real Don Draper. Dick seeing Anna will be good for him.
Peggy is Not sleeping w/ Don , she was just speaking to Pete as an Equal.
Joan respects Peggy for the strides she's made in the office.
Roger always treated Joan well. Joan always said it was "temporary", that she'd meet someone and move on. After his heart attack, Roger said he never regretted his affair with Joan - she wasn't just another piece of ass to him.
Regardless, if he finds out about this, he will cause great hell to that doctor...
Anna is great. The actress reminds me of a young Joanne Woodward - beautiful, down-to-earth, straightforward. As so many of you have posted, it was wonderful to see Don so relaxed.
I predict Joan will find it within herself to stand up to the monstrous fiance. Perhaps Roger has friends who will fit this weenie with a pair of cement boots and take him on a tour of the East River.
This episode was SUCH a step up from the last one. I loved it. My favourite part was the flash back between Don and Anna where he tells her about Betty! *SQUEES* That was just.....so adorable and beautiful. You could tell he was so happy. And Betty was happy as well, according to him. It's his life style in the ad and his greed for power that ruined both of them.
And folks, Betty is the way every mom was in that time. The ONLY reason you all think she's a terrible mother is because she's the only woman we see in that setting. We haven't seen Mona, or Francine, or SaraBeth taking care of their children. So you only base Betty's actions to the type of parenting in this age--which is far different from what went on in the 60s.
Anyways, I loved her as usual. I loved how they showed that she was independent and taking care of everything. Her treatment of Sally after she caught her smoking was a lot less than what my parents would have done to me. It was so sad how her anger diffused into sadness at Sally's accusation that it was her fault Don left. We the audience knows he left because he was escaping the fact that he "ruined everything." But it must be so depressing for Betty to be blamed for what happened. What else would ANY woman in her situation do? I also loved that the writers brought us back to early in the season when Betty refused Sally to ride. Children don't stop dreaming about riding ponies just because their parents tell them too. Kudos to the writers on that one.
The SaraBeth call was strange for me. I mean, at first I thought it was malicious, but then Betty seemed genuinely confused about SaraBeth's confession. I don't think she knew that SB actually slept with Aurthur. I'm still unsure if she wanted to just laugh about the SB "crush" on Aurthur or if she intended to figure out what really happened... And I had to laugh at all the anti-Betty remarks, cause I so knew they were coming. I was upset with Betty for being so harsh on SaraBeth, but she didn't encourage anything. She told SB that she "shouldn't talk to him so much." She did set up her and Aurthur, but it was THEIR decision to do anything about it. But anyways, to each their own.
I am SO UPSET that I was right about the doctor being abusive to Joan. =( i was really hoping I was wrong about that. The scene in Don's office was so disturbing....I loved that they incorporated the train sound theme into Joan's tuning it out. Well done!
Peggy, darling, I love you! I love you for your wit, your brilliance, your strength, and your chemistry with everyone on the team! I know i'm like...the ONLY person out there, but I really love the Peggy/Ken interaction the most. They seem like best friend material. Her and Pete's scene was so charged with energy. Speaking of which, I'm so mad at him right now. Last episode, I actually liked him more than Dan because I thought it was sweet that he would consider adoption to make his wife happy despite his mother's cruelty. But this episode...he acts as though they never even discussed it. And I hate how he lost it like that. He needs some major lessons from Don and Peggy on how to keep your emotions in check.
And did I mention how I loved, adored, and cherished the christmas scene between younger Don and Anna? Especially in regards to Betty? Oh, I am so so so happy right now. I am so glad that they didn't get together because she got pregnant or something. It was genuine young love. I feel like giggling like a fangirl. lol Still, Betty's gonna kick some major ass next episode. You could tell from the promo picture. CANNOT WAIT!!
I want Don and Bets to get back together though....sigh.
And Peggy/Joan friendship, anyone?
Anna said that Don was lavendar about Betty...she seemed like this was good, but all I could think about is Choward's Violet Mints.
Pete said he use to love Trudy and daddy-o picked up on the freudian slip. I really think he has a real crush on Peggy, one with respect. With his father gone and mom not mattering, Pete might have more freedom to run his own life now.
Hi. New to this forum, but not the show! Yay to Season 3!
Talk about throwing a roast chicken over the terrace; Pete's chicken's going to go over when Roger finds out about how and why he messed up that Clearasil account! But I think the way it goes on this show is that the biggest mistakes/meltdowns lead to the deepest levels of redemption. Maybe all isn't lost for him.
Somehow, I don't think Don will care so much. Can Don even maintain a career that relies on skewing perceptions of human needs to sell junk once he goes back? Don would be better off with Mrs Draper, I think.
SO proud of Peggy. How much could we get in this world if we'd only ask, right? She has exactly the right attitude when the boys get pissed off. And notice, those three and Pete are separated more and more. Even so, yes, our Peg is still lonely.
It's hard to remember sometimes that everything is what it is and not the perfect way we'd like it to be. We all have to deal with what is. Poor Joan. Each week her ideas of how the the world should be are crumbling a little bit more. And Betty. I think she's lashing out at her kids and stirring up trouble because she's frustrated and lost. But she's right. Her friend didn't have to sleep with that guy.
The writing is so multi-layered, I love it. And I liked last week's episode as well. It was an allusion to the way many people questioned themselves and their lives just a few years later.
Is anyone else frustrated by the fact that you start a post and by the time it gets online many people have already just said what you came up with , thinking it's original thought. I hate the fact that all my posts get shoved to the bottom and I look like I'm repeating everyone else's thoughts.
Damaged Woman: Please do not say Betty's treatment of Sally is like anyone would do in the 60s. I was a child then and NO ONE grabbed their kids by the hair or locked them in closets.
Pete has it bad for peggy. Just started watching about 6 episodes ago and assume that peggy's baby was Dons. Am I right? Back to Pete - I can't believe he threw the dinner out the window. He reminds me of a guy with "little guy syndrome" - just temper and false ego.
Loved how Anna told Don to "Stop lying. You've been caught. Don't make me do something I don't want to do." That's exactly how Betty feels about calling him on his affair. She just didn't have the strength to push him to the admission. He's never admitted it. She needs to hear him admit the affair for her own closure to the past so she can cleanse the past and move on, with or without him.
Regarding the Sara Beth thing, Betty's absolutely right. She didn't force Sara Beth to cheat. She did push them together as a test because she had lost faith in humanity. She wanted to see if everyone in her world had such a lack of integrity. First the redheaded divorcee on the block's husband, then Carlton, then Don. Would Sara Beth, who admitted her husband was a good guy, cheat also? If so, maybe it would give her some insight into why Don cheated.
Hey folks!! Have been reading your posts for the last few weeks. What a savvy group you are! Decided to post myself tonight becasue this episode has my head spinning!!
I think Betty hearing exactly what Sally thinks of her parents situation PLUS her friend from the stable pulling no punches has FINALLY opened Betty's eyes. 'Bout time!
I wonder if Alice Cooper might not be a lesbian! Did you catch the conversation with her brother about her *companion*?
Did you hear Don/Dick telling those guys working on the hot rods that he was looking for a job? What's up with that?
I think Don would have voted *Nay* for the selling of SterlingCooper!
Hey!! Good thought of Betty being pregnant/miscarrying! I know we just saw them bumbing and grinding at her family home, all this California air must have made me forget!
Why wouldn't it just be Betty getting her period? Seems the simplest explanation. Not everyone's cycle is exactly regular and wouldn't seem routine to wear a bulky pad until it came. You had to wear a belt thingy with them back then. Wouldn't look so good with Betty's tight slacks. She would probably stick with dresses during. Of course, I'm remembering that from the 70's. That contraption was probably even worse in the 60's! She seemed matter-of-fact about it-if it was a miscarriage she would have freaked out-even with Sally there.
Giveprops: I agree with you. she totally is getting a spine which is good! Hopefully she will get over Don around this time.!! They should just be friends for the kids sake.
The HotRod scene was present day. Don used to sell them years before.
Plus Don would not have been in California so closely to having just gotten out of the Army. But the real proof is he's wearing the rolled up 38inch inseam pants from Anna.
Betty is still emotionally unable to deal with her problems. Rather than face what is going on in her marriage, she makes a telephone call and projects her feelings on her friend. She is still very angry with Don, but she has no way of expressing her feelings to him. Instead, she unleashes her anger on her friend. She is still such a child.
kudos to zabadu. I grew up in the 60's and my mom never grabbed my ponytail, locked me in a closet, or talked to me like I was 18 when I was 8. She did catch me smoking - I got a spanking (not a beating, a spanking). I don't know anyone who was put in the closet in the 60's.
I dont want Betty to be pregnant though. Sigh. I think the bleeding might just be one of those subtle hints MM leaves us. I think it was to show that now that Betty has to be the man AND woman of the house, she's forgetting about a lot of the "womanly tendencies" that she used to be able to look after. I've never been in her situation (thank goodness), but I'd think that in a situation like that you tend to stop thinking of the 'normal' things.
Don says to the hot rodders "I'm looking for work." That doesn't sound like a man in a hurry to get back to Sterling-Cooper. One episode left. It's going to be a long hiatus for us and Don.
Thanks Julianne. Not all of us 60s kids were beaten. Most of us got sent to our rooms, and if we were REALLY bad, maybe a spanking - but just that - a spanking, not a beating.
How anyone could think that Betty isn't pregnant at this point - she screwed Don, now she's randomly bleeding? Women like Betty were fastidious...she'd have known just when her period was coming.
DamagedWomen - Loved your post. Agree with everything you said. I have to laugh when people talk about Betty being cruel to her kids. My Mom loved her kids to death but she was also a disciplinarian and sometimes she lost her temper like any normal parent does but we were never abused and neither are Sally and Bobby.
Also, I agree that Peggy and Ken would be a great couple.
I like how none of the guys in the office can pinpoint that Peggy got a haircut. "There's something different about you." and "You look different" from last episode.
Julianne, you said it yourself, you got spanked. Pulling someone from the pony tail was another form of punishment in the past--as one would pull a child by the ear now. I don't know about the closet part, I never went through that either. But she didn't actually lock the closet door. And it really isn't something for her to be termed as an evil witch for. She didn't smack Sally or beat her. And she actually TALKED to her after she calmed down.
"Betty smokes! it's normal for a child to imitate their mom!"
who ever said this, you are right. But it still wasn't socially acceptable for EIGHT year old's to smoke at that time either--whether or not their parents did it.
Mike--yup, they set up a third season. Still negotiating with MW though.
joan's been raped before and she looked away to dissociate from the situation. she's been a sexual abuse victim before. althugh they didn't show a flashback, i think that's where she "went" as he held her down and she knew what was coming. it's her coping mechanism. she became totally passive. maybe she was repeatedly molested as a child or young woman. or perhaps this is the doctor's preferred method of seduction. the look on her face showed extreme emotional pain which she was trying not to feel by zoning out. she needs to dump him pronto!!!
The hot rod scene was from the past, maybe that's how he got into the used car business.
Did anyone notice Peggy smoking and drinking? I don't remember her doing that in the past. She's become "one of the boys."
I think Betty's attitude with SaraBeth is she's equating it to Don's cheating. She has no sympathy, especially knowing SaraBeth's husband has been good to her. She relates.
Did you also hear Betty say to Sally that she may not be able to afford presents like the boots in the future?
I am having a hard time digesting the rape scene. I know that this show is about pushing boundaries, and about showing us the things rarely talked about... its just a very very sensitive subject. I hope that poor Joanie will be able to find some sort of justice in the whole ordeal.
I am so glad to see Peggys triumphs, and her loyalty to Don. Her conversation with Pete was marvelous. Her line about 'sleeping with Don' was my second favorite line of the season.
I wonder if anything will become of the mechanic Betty negotiated with in Episode 1?
I think that Joan will break it off with her fiance, since the creep raped her. When Joan and Peggy were talking, it seemed like Joan was trying to convince herself what a great guy her fiances is is. ("He is a surgeon, he helps kids...") If Joan is once again a free woman, things may heat up with Roger again.
I would love to see Trudy dump Pete. Pete is such a weasel.
I wish the season finale was a two hour special...there will be lots of ground to cover.
i cried while watching joan experience her fiance rape her. i hate that her character had to feel such evil -just when she thought things were looking up for her life.
i don't understand why betty wanted to make someone else as misrable as she was. i realize she was jealous of her friends marriage, but why would she turn angry when her friend confided in her and confirmed her wishes had come true?
yes, don was being baptized because that was an old southern baptismal hymn playing at the end.
i'm so confused as to why don would leave everything he worked hard for at the ad agency. i also wonder... if the merger goes through and don owns 12% then he is going to get millions -but how will he ever find out? will betty get the money because they can't find don? or maybe they will track him down when pete tells them his real name (whitman). oh, did anyone else notice that don was earning about 16k a month? back then that was about right because now they earn in the millions annually.
i don't know... i love this show so much because it i never can figure out what's going to happen next.
who do you think peggy's secretary will be? maybe a guy???
I think Don will come home and love his new Betty. She is more beautiful as she gets angrier. She is growing.
My mother was a saint and if she wanted to move me when she was really angry, grabbing hair was not out of the question. It did not kill me. We jsut do not do things like that now.
This episode might has well have been called "The Sacraments"! Don's baptism scene coupled with his multiple confessions to Anna (the sacrament of reconciliation ... possibly leading to a personal reconciliation with Betty).
Peggy was amazing with her use of ritualistic and eucharistic imagery for the Popcicle ad! Especially after she pours and passes with out streached arms the scotch in her office. The mother in the same position as Christ in The Last Supper passing out popcicles like they were body and blood! Even the campaign slogan "Take it, Break it, ... Love it" echoes the the words Jesus spoke to his disciples ... "Take this, and eat it, in remembrance of Me".
It might be a stretch but the sacraments of marriage and confirmation were alluded to in my mind. Joan seems to be attempting to find some solace in her future marriage despite her future husband's rape of her.
Even Peggy - in asking for and receiving Freddy's office becomes a full fledged member of the copy writers and the office. She is one of the boys and is in a way "confirmed" as a member of the old boys club. The office and all of its meanings and trappings are conferred upon her by Roger much as a priest/God would bestow membership in the Church.
Additionally Don and Betty's daughter receives the riding boots and hunt cap from her mother and becomes a "big girl" worthy of the adult knowledge of her parents separation (she is confirmed and therefore becomes a full member).
Anywhoodle ... great episode and wicked creative on the part of the writers.
This blog becomes overwhelming can't keep up with the hundreds of people signing on. By the way the way oldfashioned has been on this blog for along time and he/she is still at the bottom of the blog. Why hasn't he/she moved up ? There are hundreds logging on and this person is still at the bottom.
Kitch, glad you agree! And even parents in this day and age "lose it" when they see their children do something that's not good for them. But they're still good, loving parents. I just think that no one can really say anything about Betty until we see another example of a mother disciplining her child.
And I'm so glad about the Ken/Peggy. I thought I was the only one who saw it. I enjoy their interactions more than those of the other Peggy/Office people. Though Pete/Peggy do have lots of chemistry in my opinion. I can't bring myself to "ship" them though, because I want Pete to work it out with his wife. I'm very old fashioned in that regard.
I don't think Betty has had a miscarriage. Menstrual cycles shift according to a woman's emotional health. Betty has been stressed and depressed for a while now. It wouldn't be too far fetched to think that her period just came late.
Last episode showed Don sitting on the couch in Palm Springs with his hand over the couch to the left side of the couch, it is always shown on the right side of the couch. He has a dual life and he is now his alter ego.
Another thing that struck me was Dick fixed Mrs. Draper's chair. Do you remember the dinner party when Betty's chair was loose? She shook it and eventually broke it. Dick went to the grocery store and carried groceries home. Dick does things to help out. Dick is a nice guy. Don isn't.
Betty is bleeding could represent what is happening to her. Her life is seeping away. Don is very distant and absent from their family life, yet he controls every aspect of it.
During the assault scene with Joan there was traffic noise in the background. I wonder if Joan was raped before and the traffic noise is part of the memory? It will be interesting to see what develops. I think the good doc will be gone. I can't see the relationship continuing and he's such an 'emotional' loser he'll end it.
The relationship with Peggy and Joan is a good one. Peggy is the only person in that office that is genuinely interested in Joan. She listens to her while none of the men that she works for does. The women under her fear her power in the office so Joan really doesn't have relationships with the other 'girls'. She is in limbo. Her character probably garners the most sympathy from me. A product of the times.
My husband is really angry that the series finale is next week. It is unfortunate that AMC only produces seven episodes a season with such a high-quality product. I hope they rethink this and start the series earlier next year with more episodes.
couples i'd like to see:
peggy and ken
joan and paul
the doctor and his cellmate after he gets convicted of rape
sal and duck (just kidding - sal has better taste that that)
roger and betty - they deserve each other
was the blonde lady at the hotel he saw his ex-wife's twin sister who didn't have problems walking? (might be a stretch but i just remembered that part)
I think Joan will dump the finance, since he raped her. She seems to be in shock. As Joan and Peggy were talking, it seemed that Joan was trying to convince herself that he is a good guy. ("He is a surgeon, he works on kids...") The guy is scum. Once Joan is available, things may heat up with Roger. That could make for quite a bit of drama.
I think Trudy should dump Pete. He refuses to adopt a child with her, and he only cares about himself. He is a little weasel.
All I could think of was this song by Elton John,...
Raised to be a lady by the golden rule
Alice was the spawn of a public school
With a double barrel name in the back of her brain
And a simple case of Mummy-doesn't-love-me blues
Reality it seems was just a dream
She couldn't get it on with the boys on the scene
But what do you expect from a chick who's just sixteen
And hey, hey, hey, you know what I mean
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
Come over and see me
Come over and please me
Alice it's my turn today
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
If I give you my number
Will you promise to call me
Wait till my husband's away
Poor little darling with a chip out of her heart
It's like acting in a movie when you got the wrong part
Getting your kicks in another girl's bed
And it was only last Tuesday they found you in the subway dead
And who could you call your friends down in Soho
One or two middle-aged dykes in a Go-Go
And what do you expect from a sixteen year old yo-yo
And hey, hey, hey, oh don't you know
btw, imho roger is a fun, attractive guy but he's incredibly shallow and sophmoric. jane fancies herself literary and deep and writes poetry. they will come to the end of their infatuation with each other soon. at least i hope so.
i agree, bert's sister is a stitch and possibly a lesbian. however, rich women in those days did have "paid companions"....
we do see that dick/don did really love betty and was excited to marry her and start a family. he tells the truth and opens up to anna draper, his "first wife".
Not to seem mean but I am a MM Fanatic so I think about this show on a whole other level and some people make me mad (hmmm a mad man) when they say or ask things like they weren't watching the show at all if you pay attention you can catch it all.
1. Every one commenting on Betty refer to my earlier comment or my new thread and when she said I cant do it she was referring to taking care of the family alone.
2. This show got like 6 Emmy's there will be a third season
3. The last scene was done cleansing himself, yeas like a baptism. This will symbolize his new beginning because he will of course have to save the company from this dumb move to merge. Poor Cooper
4. Joan is an important character she will not commit suicide we will see her strength return in some shape or form and I do agree that it will have something to do with Roger.
5. Pete better get some act right he knows his role so he better play it well...its wrong but the whole thing is a game so to better his life he better walk a thin line when it comes to his wife, job, and money.
6. This goes out to the comment makers....watch the show PLEASE...dont just stare at the screen and watch colors move everyone involved in this MM project is doing a wonderful job take time and admire their work.
7. LOVE ALL OF YOU GUYS......KEEP MM ALIVE
Thankyou, zabadu...I was a child then too and none of the mothers, including my own would ever have done any of those things. Lock you in the closet???? Damagedwomen, are you crazy? Who did YOU know???...sorry, but I think that was an incredibly ignorant and ill-informed thing to say.
The only good relationships that Don/Dick seem to have with women are with the first Mrs. Draper and Peggy. Both relationships based on things he wants to hide from others and neither of those relationships involve sex.
Walking into the water = being reborn. Don is being born again. He'll be back.
bocaratonfan,
Love the Ken/Peggy recognition! lol I agree with all your couples except Betty and Roger. Betty is the ONLY woman on the show who hasn't cheated/betrayed her husband. Roger is an idiot living a mid life crisis. I loved that woman's jab at him. "take care of your children." "I only have the one." "You sure about that?" Score.
angelini
Good point I never thought of that.......if he adopts his own child he won't be out of his family money and he will make his own wife happy who will in the end make her father happy and Pete's job gets better....ART AT ITS BEST.....never thought of this nice point
Watched the blood part again--ya'll are right. Betty was flustered by it and it must have been abnormal if Sally noticed it. Still an odd indicator she's pregnant but have no other explanation either. I couldn't really see anything in the window reflection. Wonder who was on the phone?
Yeah, third season!!!! Hope they get some new advertisers and ditch Viva Viagra!
I kept waiting for Joan to pound him; what the hell happened to her? She is in as much denial as Peggy was when she was pregnant. I have a feeling Peggy will be the one to notice something is very wrong with Joan. I was a little confused with all the flashbacks also; thanks for the haircut tip if I watch it again. Betty did get her comeuppance on her setting her friends up. She is not pregnant, she just had her period. I don't know what the poster before was talking about when she said women always know when they are getting their period; are you kidding? I wish I had a dollar for every ruined pair of underwear.
Katie, read my posts again. Both of them were referring to Betty pulling Sally's hair. The only time I mentioned the closet was to point out that she didn't lock the closet door and that it's really not a punishment equal to that of an "evil witch". It was an act done in her time of anger and rage, the way people are describing Betty is fit for someone who brutally beats their child. She has never done that. Not even in her unstable emotional state.
I grew up in the 60's and my mom was a hair puller, kicker. It happened all the time and it still happens today! It's called corporal punishment and out of control adults do it to children everyday. Don't live with blinders on. Children are still abused today. Betty was NOT the only one who did it. It's a very realistic dramatization of what is still happening in the USA today! Open your eyes zabadu.
I might be the only one to say this but I give a LOT of credit to Pete for standing up to his Father-in-law. He easily could have gone along with what he wanted. It took a lot of guts to let the account go and face the wrath of his employers.
I agree with the poster who said that Betty is showing no sympathies to SaraBeth because she has been the victim of an affair herself, as is Raymond. And both are loyal and love their respective partners. I'm not one to sympathize with infidelity and I've never been a victim of it. I wouldn't expect Betty to be "understanding" when her friend confesses to her that she just pulled a Don.
And relating to that, Betty is not a bad friend. Francine went to HER for comfort after she found out about her husband's affair, and SaraBeth felt like she could talk to Betty about her feelings. She only snapped at SB's betrayal to Raymond. She's not unapproachable, I wish Don would see that.
"The comment in Popscicle pitch that the mother looks somehow familiar. She looks like Peggy, which must be a harbinger of her unconsiousness nodding to her own child."
That's what I thought too!!!! And I definitely think that Peggy realized it as well, because she hesitated when the man pointed it out. Poor Pegs. :(
I feel the need to take up for Pete. Trudy is a married woman now. How dare she call daddy like a spoiled brat and complain. She shot herself in the foot, Pete might lose income over this. As a good wife she should have discussed the adoption angency with him first. Not pull the appointment crap on him at work. Not discuss it with his secratary, how demeaning. And let him cool off and discuss it later. Calling daddy is not an option. How many women can't have a child feel like they must break line? I know she had daddy move them up on the list.
Oh, so shoving your kid in a dark closet BUT not locking it isn't abuse? Ever see Sybil? Betty wanted Don to inflict punishment on Bobby and was mad that he didn't until Don said he'd been beaten as a kid. Betty is seriously out of control with her kids.
Sorry you guys feel this is normal behavior in ANY decade, but those of us raised by "normal" parents disagree.
Betty set up Sally Beth and to go all moralistic on her was such a joke. Betty made the opportunity happen and then ditched her friend when she needed her. Betty is a horrible person. I think that's why Don has such a hard time understanding her, because Betty has no empathy for anyone. She plays victim really well.
A lot of women bleed when they are pregnant. I can't see why this is a shock to women on the board.
I agree with one of the previous writers that Joan was zoning out during the rape, perhaps because she had been abused before and just "went someplace else" to endure it and get it over with.
There might also be some symbolism with her focusing on the couch... wasn't she discovered there weeping after Marilyn Monroe died, by Roger? And he was mocking her that she was crying? And then she said someday he would lose someone he loved very much and then he might understand.
And in that moment, she lost Dr. Harris -- her feeling for him will never be the same. I predict a disengagement. Cut him loose, Joan! He's nothing but heartache.
angelini, you may be right. I'm not catholic so I would miss something like that--as I missed the whole baptism ending scene with Don. Kudos for realizing that.
Sorry you were abused. Whether it happened then, or is still happening now doesn't make it right. Don't make excuses for it. It's the same as spousal abuse. It isn't right and should never be tolerated.
My eyes are opened. I don't make excuses for abuse; even if several of you are. It's never right, never acceptable. Get help.
I agree with the comments about the book The Awakening. I remember that the main character in that story tragically drowns herself because she was a woman who was deeply unhappy with her marriage. She couldn't deal with society's pressure to be happy in the traditional role of wife/mother. Even though Draper was the one who was in the water, I thought of Joan when the book was mentioned.
I agree with one of the previous writers that Joan was zoning out during the rape, perhaps because she had been abused before and just "went someplace else" to endure it and get it over with.
There might also be some symbolism with her focusing on the couch... wasn't she discovered there weeping after Marilyn Monroe died, by Roger? And he was mocking her that she was crying? And then she said someday he would lose someone he loved very much and then he might understand.
And in that moment, she lost Dr. Harris -- her feeling for him will never be the same. I predict a disengagement. Cut him loose, Joan! He's nothing but heartache.
Just watched the show again, getting into a bad habit of blogging while watching, thus missing things. Just noticed that Anna had cut Taro cards and it came up as the Resurrrection for Dick. And of course he gets baptized at the end to the tune of George Jones. I said earlier that I wasn't sure what he was being cleansed of.I am so tired I cant believe I said that. He has so many sins from which he must be cleansed. The question is where to start?
@FedoraDon: The mother in the Popsicle pitch drawing is supposed to resemble Christ and the children are lambs. It's a very Christian/Catholic bit of imagery, and probably the Popsicle guy is a Christian, so it resonated, but he didn't quite recognize it.
Pete's virile, all right, he fathered Peggy's boy and the fertility expert from a few eps back confirmed that Pete's boys can swim. It's Trudy who can't have kids, so she wants to adopt. Pete doesn't want to. It's like buying off the rack instead of custom-made. As much Pete appears to resent his family, he can't see that he's as dogmatic about doing the "correct" thing and about appearances as they are. If he ever did hook up with Peggy, it would be against everything he ever thought to be true about himself. I can't see that happening unless he has a "Saul on the road to Damascus" moment.
And Paul's an ass. Right on, Sheila! for dumping the slimy git.
@MadManSuze: I haven't heard that Elton John song in years. Gee!
I don't think that Joan will dump the doctor, at least not right away. Back in 1962, the concept of "date-rape" had not been discussed - and that is what this is. I believe that what happened to Joan was terrible and that her reaction was complete numbing/out of body denial. She'll hang in there with him either until she ends up in a miserable marriage, or until she is saved by a friendship - perhaps Peggy or even Roger.
As for Peggy, I feel like congratulating her, and warning her - her success is threatening to Ken and to Paul.
I am a woman of 61 and I watched the birth of the late 20th century feminist movement. The writers get my very highest accolades for portraying the birth of it with intelligence and sensitivity.
why are people on this thread saying that anna was his first wife? she was the wife of the original don draper -never dick whitmann. and, he needed a divorce from her because his new identity was Don Drapper.
I don't think that Joan will dump the doctor, at least not right away. Back in 1962, the concept of "date-rape" had not been discussed - and that is what this is. I believe that what happened to Joan was terrible and that her reaction was complete numbing/out of body denial. She'll hang in there with him either until she ends up in a miserable marriage, or until she is saved by a friendship - perhaps Peggy or even Roger.
As for Peggy, I feel like congratulating her, and warning her - her success is threatening to Ken and to Paul.
I am a woman of 61 and I watched the birth of the late 20th century feminist movement. The writers get my very highest accolades for portraying the birth of it with intelligence and sensitivity.
Love how--despite her pain in her own life--Joan never misses an opportunity to put the 3 boys in their place. Yes Don called and he said for you to get to work....Keeping SC running as efficiently as possible is what keeps her grounded.
Even if the boys think she's kidding, they still do as they are told.
Violence is bad, except when it is normal. The morals and rules and norms in the early 60's was to punish children. Spare the rod, spoil the child. The main reason we do not do it now is the government saying we can't.
Though I do not think my mother did anything wrong, I chose not to raise my girls that way. Good thing, because the government tells me that I have to do it their way now. And the beat goes on,on,on,on,on.....
Awesome, amazing episode - much like Nixon v. Kennedy last year in its emotional impact and setting us up (hopefully) for another 'Wheel" next week. "Alice' was a stitch. Bravura work by Elisabeth Moss especially in emulating the master, from the Popsicle pitch to her priceless putdown. Where is Roger when we need him to rescue Joan? Kudos to the actress playing Anna - she was wonderful - and seeing JH open up his range with her across the Dick/Don spectrum was equally riveting.
Worth every minute of slogging through "Jet Set" last week to get to this point.
zabadu, No one here has been making excuses for abuse or saying its acceptable. Only saying that it happens, it's reality. You made the comment that NO ONE did that. I'm just letting you know that now you do know someone it happened to. I would never make any excuses for it, like it's ok. Just saying that it happened and still does. I've stopped the circle of violence. I have three kids and have never performed any sort of corporal punishment to them. Because so many people who are abused, end up abusing their children because it's the way they were raised. Sorry for the lecture, but I had to do a paper on this for school and it's all fresh in my mind.
Just a comment about Joan and her Dr. I know from experience [because I'm married to one], that they are control freaks. That is how they get through med school and 38 hour shifts, and even when they become attendings their lives are never really their own. This is NOT an excuse for what he did. He was despiicable. Just an observation. Going to bed have to be up at 5;00.
zabadu, please don't make accusations about us defending abuse. It's unnecessary. Betty did not abuse Sally. Hair pulling is a tactic that was/is still used. It does not scar the child in any way. She put Sally in the closet because she didn't know what else to do with her in her anger. But she didn't just leave her there screaming. It was a way to control the situation before it got out of hand. The point of not locking the door is to show that it is NOT a regular occurrence and she didn't just ignore her. She calmed down, opened the door, and talked. That's what part of parenting is about. You get angry, but you check yourself before you do anything that would really hurt you offspring.
What did Betty ask Don to do to Bobby? The only thing she ever mentioned was "a spanking". she said herself that her dad would give her "a good spanking" whenever she was out of line. The poster that agreed with you said herself that she was spanked as a child. I was not on Betty's side during the situation however, because she pushed too hard and I felt bad for Bobby, but like you said, she stopped when she found out Don's past abuse. She doesn't want that for her children.
As for the lack of empathy, Francine and SaraBeth both went to HER during their time of need, and she comforted them. She set up SB for a test, but SB is an adult who was not forced into anything. Adultery isn't something to be taken lightly. Especially for someone in Betty's situation. Also, she was nicer to Helen at the beginning than any of the other women. She still sympathized with her situation when all the other women were making fun of her clothes in episode 3. I get that you don't see this because you hate Betty, but I'm just letting you know that it's there.
zabadu-So you're saying Betty gets pregnant every time she has sex? So she and Don have only had sex three times because they have two kids and now she's pregnant? And you don't understand anyone who isn't positive she's pregnant like you are? Every woman knows the exact moment her period will arrive? And it's common to bleed when pregnant? Did I understand your comment correctly?
OK, did you notice Betty forged Don's name endorsing the back of the check in the home Office, on the desk with the locked drawer? And to right the misconceptions about Betty's call to the stable-boy-masher: Betty is not evil and did not call to be mean. Betty called her to ask about the private school, Country Day... she was thinking Sally needs to go there, and called to get insight about whether that would be best for her daughter, then got sidetracked into the stable boy affair conversation.
@ldraper: Yes, I was the one who asked that since Anna said she was surprised to see DD at her door, who did he call from the beach house last week? I thought I was in this talk form. I guess I wasn't.
Dick with the Hot Rodders. Dick asks if you do/can sell them. The guy explains that a few shops have done well, but he came out there to work on them and sell them and ended up working in a bar. Dick/Don's mind is clicking. If there's money to be made selling something, Don knows how to do it. That may be his new game if he decides to relocate to California. He'll get back with Betty, he's born again, cleansed of his sins. People can change. Unfortunately, with one episode left, we'll all be left hangin' next Sunday night.
And Joan's Doctor, he's pissed that she's slept around more than he has, and he knows Roger was one of her men. That's why he rapes her at the office. He's trying to degrade her for her office liaisons over the years. And bring himself up (in his mind) to the equal of her previous lovers. Sicko. Everybody's right, he's a goner.
Damaged, have to disagree with you on hair pulling not being abuse. It is. Please look up the definition of corporal punishment. It's the deliberate intent of inflicting pain. Betty was quite deliberate in her intent. It is abuse. Any physical action against a child by an adult is abuse. Whether it's done out of love or not. Sad but true.
I'm just thinking about this...but Don seemed to be happy with Betty at a time when he was allowed to be Dick with Anna. So I'm thinking that his sudden coldness to Betty developed from the stress of having to move away from his only outlet to be his real self. I think that after he left Anna he got so caught up in the image of Don, that he just snapped. Sad, cause he was such a cutie in the flashback.
i loved the dress that peggy wore while moving into her office!
why on earth would they have referenced betty being on her cycle? she did not look shocked -instead she looked like "whatever".
i'm so sick of her stupid character!!!!
Dick Whitman's time visiting Anna ( no he's not sleeping with her ) has re-Birthed him. He no longer is carrying guilt.
He'll go to Long Beach and make contacts in the racing scene. Remember there was a lot of futuristic car concepts then in this Still Buck Rogers aerospace era. Don will roll it into an automobile client and some auto vendors also or perhaps Esso or " Tiger in your tank " gasoline company. Oil companys promotion of racing was huge, space age design the sky was the limit.
Hot Rod, Car mechanics were present day : Don was walking with groceries Present day, had it been earlier he would have been driving and not bring groceries as he lived at his place.
1am exact eastern.
I could not believe the rape scene with Joan and the doctor fiancee. It seemed so totally our of character for Joan to be out of control or not to put that guy in his place because that is what she excels at. Is she so afraid of losing him and not getting married that she would just let him rape her like that? The thought did run through my mind that maybe there is something about Don Draper's office that turns even a normal man into a raving sex fiend. Don always seemed to have to leave the office early to go and satisfy his sexual urges.
welgolpol, have you ever seen a child being pulled by the ear by their parents? Such action, like hair pulling, is equivalent to a slap on the wrist to a child. I've never done it, but I do know that it is socially acceptable in certain situations in Canada (where I live). There is a debate still going on, but it is not illegal or taboo. Also, I'm arguing from the perspectives of a family in the 60s, when, as you have addressed, it was recommended to use MINIMAL punishment on your child in order to teach them lessons that will improve their future. Now we know that it doesn't work all that well, but in the 60s, it was done based on the perspective that the little physical pain would make the child avoid any bad behavior out of fear of it being repeated.
welgolpol, have you ever seen a child being pulled by the ear by their parents? Such action, like hair pulling, is equivalent to a slap on the wrist to a child. I've never done it, but I do know that it is socially acceptable in certain situations in Canada (where I live). There is a debate still going on, but it is not illegal or taboo. Also, I'm arguing from the perspectives of a family in the 60s, when, as you have addressed, it was recommended to use MINIMAL punishment on your child in order to teach them lessons that will improve their future. Now we know that it doesn't work all that well, but in the 60s, it was done based on the perspective that the little physical pain would make the child avoid any bad behavior out of fear of it being repeated.
I said this in another post but in different words. Why do people feel Roger has to 'save' Joan? I feel this series will show us how old modes of thinking and behaving will be smashed-just like the real 1960's. I feel Joan will become a pioneer in the women's rights movement. She has observed & participated in high powered business for 9 years. She is extremely intelligent and saavy. She has been dismissed by male workers when she demonstrated she has a better grasp of the jobs they are doing and as in the example of the script reading episode is better at the job than the guy presently holding the position. The first time I felt that she would 'rise up' so to speak was the episode where she rubs her shoulder from the pain of the bra strap. I felt that perhaps symbolically she would become a bra burner some day. I know the restriction that bras put on women and although there is support it is somewhat of a prison to HAVE to wear one all the time. Anyway- I I also feel that Peg's success wil be ultimately all women's future success and I think Joan recognizes this. She, I feel, was geniuinely happy for Peg's advancement. More so than the men who acted like disappointed, envious little boys when they saw her office. The character Peg showed great restraint in not giving them a piece of her mind for their rude comments.
@Laurie Petrie: I agree with you. Does the bleeding mean she isn't pregnant? Or, is she miscarrying?
Didn't you notice when Pete asked Peggy about the office, and she said she was sleeping with Don. "It's working out really well." Pete gave her his "Peggy Smile". The smile he reserves for Peggy Olson only. He was touched that she would kid with him like that, and he knew that she never would have said that in jest to anyone else in the office, because she's only slept with Pete. Very telling ending for Peggy and Pete. Good closer for the writers.
In case everyone doesn't already know: FYI: Joe Hamm is the SNL host this week. Now that the MM season is over, I can't wait to see the MM skits SNL puts together with Hamm. Can we help the SNL writers with any funny suggestions? I'm recording SNL right after where I recorded episode 12.
Where are GemCat63 , Angelini both your time stamps are an hour ahead of me and i'm on the east coast in the atlantic ocean.
This time stamp is messed up.
1:01am
When Don stops to talk with the guys who are working on their street rods, he introduces himself as Dick Whitman. There was no need or reason to do otherwise. He may well and truly be at that point where acceptance can assert its transformational powers. Anna's ongoing friendship and support may have helped bring Don to where he can begin to forgive himself and commence healing his brokenness. The Pacific Ocean cleansing was fitting.
Peggy continues to rock. Her retort was one of the best of many great one liners that consistently populate the Mad Men landscape.
over 200 blogs already, and Mountain King just aired! It was my favorite episode about Jon Hamm's character. It was so great to see him truly relaxed with a friend he trusted. I also loved The Jet Set, where he was so puzzled about how people could live like that. You do such great writing for him, and he does such great acting for us. I'm heartbroken that next week is the end of the second season. Can't think of anything I'll have to look forward to. There doesn't seem to be enough of "Mad Men".
Everyone I know that went to Catholic school rarely told their parents about a nun's punishment of them, as we all knew that our parents would AGREE with the nun!
===================
Indeed. Parents did not question what a nun did to you. The consensus was "you probably deserved it."
If you got the ruler, the gum on the nose or you knelt on top of raw rice (eh, my cousin got this as a punishment when she was in Catholic grammar school) then, that was your just desserts.
Love reading all the blogs! This is my first entry. I am a huge fan of the show and I loved this episode. I agree that Dick Whitman is a lot nicer than Don Draper. I also loved how he described how much he loved Betty. I would love more flashbacks of how their relationship began.
As far as the bleeding being about forgetfulness, I think it has to be something a lot more major than just "forgetting her period." There are a lot less distasteful ways to show this, but maybe I'm wrong.
Also, please have Joan dump that creepy Dr. he is just treating her like an object just like all the other guys in her life!
Bappy53 you're right those Nun's beat the shit out of everyone and stashed all the infant births under the church. Very common for pregnant nuns to kill the child and bury them under the church.
Wow. I loved this episode very much. It was so nice to see Don be at peace, with a real mother figure like Anna. Just beautiful. I love how the writers handled their relationship. Sad seeing his enthusiasm about getting married in the flashback. But the tarot card scene and the baptism in the water were just exquisite.
Separately, it was so awful what happened to Joan; what a degenerate loser that guy is. Good God.
Ok. people we have 226 posts ... where are the controllers texting and the grammer correction blog police.
Everyone here seems to enjoying themselves .... Where are the insults ?
1:19am
Hello, MM fanatics! I am new to board but have been hooked on the series since I watched the opening of the first episode. Love the comments on the board, too.
I relive aspects my past lives in each episode. It really is like a deja vu experience. I grew up in Southern California in the 40s & 50's (yes, many parents punished children like Betty did - and worse!); I worked in the early 60's in an office like SC as a secretary (sex with the bosses in the office was commonplace - even expected in some places) ); I married a "keeper" (who wasn't); and I was a pretty bored housewife stuck in the domesticated burbs like Betty. I even had that knotty pine kitchen!
I marvel how MM's writers and crew are able to capture the zeitgeist of that unique post-war period with such accuracy, comprehension and compassion for the characters that represent the many of us who made it through all the societal transitions of the time! It was a wild ride...
Now, as for episode 12, I am also wondering about the significance of the scene with the hot rodders. Someone knew their car stuff and the Lions Drag Strip in Long Beach was quite a big deal in those days.. guys with black leather jackets, heavy boots and grease on their hands raced their hand-tooled hot rods every weekend. In the mid-60s, alcohol-fueled dragsters took over the strip. It was an exciting, sexy, dangerous place to be! What was going on in DD's mind as he stroked the shiny chrome and eyeballed the paint job on the cars in that alley?
@RMG: Wow! I can't believe you caught that bit about Alice Cooper's female, moody companion making them a lesbian couple! Thanks for the eye-opener, and I'm sitting here watching the episode again for the 3rd time! Great Catch! Keep posting!
(so I know EVERYTHING that's going on!)
I couldn't watch the rape scene with Joan. I just looked at her face, and I couldn't watch anymore. I kept thinking, "It's Don' office. If only he were close enough to walk in and stop it." I agre with the poster. I hope Dr. Harris gets hit by a bus, but if that's not possible, what do you think Paul, Ken, Sal, Harry, his orangutang office-mate, and Pete would do to him, if they knew what he did to their "Miss Holloway"?
zabadu,
Sorry, but people did grab their kids by the hair back then and lock them in closets. Betty did not lock Sally in the closet, she had her hand on the door knob and the kid was only in there for a few seconds. Besides, Sally just sassed her big time from inside that closet - she has spirit. And Betty did listen to what Sally said and she realized what effect the situation between her and Don was having on the kids. She got the riding boots because Sally has been asking to go riding since last season.
By the way, as a former grade school teacher, I can tell you plenty of people lock their kids in closets even now. My parents never did that, thank heaven, but it's actually not an uncommon practice. Some kids are locked in there while Mom and Dad go out for hours or just don't want to see the kids. Babysitters lock kids in closets, too. Make friends with some teachers and social workers - you'll learn a lot about human nature.
I agree with others who've said that Don/Dick is so much more comfortable in his own skin at Anna's house. It's because she knows who he really is. The only one who knows. He always looked so stiff and on the defensive in New York. So fake really because he was false to himself.
Notice how Betty was signing checks at the beginning? And we know that Don has been sending Anna checks all these years, I think that was a foreshadowing of Betty finding out about it.
I must confess that I can't stand Betty. To me she is a spoiled rich beauty queen who hasn't known suffering until she found out about Don's dalliances. Also she's stupid.
Its been a while since I was on the forum. This was a really good episode and was a definate rebound from last week. It was great seeing Betty getting the Popsicle account and then standing up to Roger to get Freddy's office. As for Joan, I'm concern after the incident with her fiancee she will either break off the relationship or have a breakdown. She wanted to get married and have a better life. Know she seems distraught. Paul near the end of the show stares at her. I wonder if things will start heating up or their will be major tensions with Paul and Joan in the season finale episode. I think Paul has just had enough of Joan and wants to tell her off or tell her how he feels.
As for Don, he looks like he is getting ready to redeem himself and will come back to New York and Sterling Cooper. As for Betty, I think there was a clue that might get Don to go back to the Betty and the kids. What's great upon this show is that you have to watch all the episodes to understand what he scene signifies. Can't wait to see John Hamm on SNL this Saturday. I bet you they will do a parody and I can't wait from the season finale.
PS I think there was an AP or press release just an hour ago that the show will be back for a third season. Yeah!!! Lets get more people to watch the show. Yes to Mad Men.
Hated the scene with Joan! Hope that the good Dr. cuts a wrist in surgery, just hope Joan doesn't.
What is going to happen when Pete discovers that he has a child with Peggy? Is he going to insist on "adopting" him"?
I am probably so wrong on this one but .....I felt that the casual attitudes of Joan and her boyfriend after the incident in the office did not match the proceeding incident. Is it at all possible that this was just part of Joan's sexual imagination? Was she tampering with aggressive sexual fantasy when in reality her partner was passive and not preforming? I have found in various reports on sexuality that such fantasies do exist to a greater extent than what one may expect. Its just a thought. My "greater" instinct tells me that this may be a false conclusion.
I went to Catholic school from K-12, 13 years, and I could count on one hand how many times I saw a nun get violent with a kid and there were 60 of us in a classroom built for 35. We had to have been a handful, one nun, 60 kids, no assistant.
Friends and family members who went to public schools faced corporal punishment, too, and they had a lot of male teachers whose whacks were a lot harder than any nun's.
I know it's in vogue to criticize everything Catholic these days, but the Catholic school system in this country educated millions of us, on a shoestring budget. Those nuns, priests and brothers spent their lives taking care of other people's children and I for one am thankful for the education they gave me.
NYerinMpls, the scene with Don in the ocean made me think of The Awakening too! I saw the waves crashing over him as he went out deeper, and I started hearing the last paragraph of the book in my mind. I'm sure the writers had to be making a reference to that amazing book, don't you think?
Some one posted about Bert Cooper's reason for voting for the merger. Didn't his sister mention that he was sick, after she told him how old he was? Maybe that's why he decided not to fight it.
Joan's plight is heartbreaking. Let's hope her core will out in the final episode and dump this loser/abuser.
Don has never looked happier or more at peace than in the company of his "first" wife Anna, So what does her wooden leg symbolize, that she is more real even though part of her is false?
Pet is pridefule liitle prick who would rather commit professional and familial suicide rather than give the appearance (though false) that he is not virile enough to father a child.
The comment in Popscicle pitch that the mother looks somehow familiar. She looks like Peggy, which must be a harbinger of her unconsiousness nodding to her own child.
And, unless I miss my bet, Teddy the piano playing boy is Matt Weiner's other son. The resemblance and voice are so similar to the lock of hair young friend of Betty.
Peggy handing out the alcohol in the paper cups right after Sal mentioned his mother giving the two popsicles out “like Jesus at the Last Supper”. Great!
Loved Anna! A no-nonsense woman who can put big Don in his place – that lady has spunk and panache. “Stop lying! You’ve been caught – don’t make me do something I don’t want to do.” If only more people would say that to him.
Then there was the parade of the chauvinistic men… In the forefront is Pete who won’t even listen to Trudy’s pleas for a child and smashes her dreams with a “this is final”, as if his opinion is the only one that counts. Then there’s Dr. Missionary Position who can’t stand the idea of there being other men before him in Joan’s life and won’t let her be on top. Joan can’t kick that jackass to the curb fast enough!
It was sweet to hear Don talk about Betty with Anna in the flashback. He seems so happy – things were muck less complicated back then. He got the second chance at life that her husband didn’t get, and I think he knows he better not screw it up for his sake and Anna’s.
Peggy is becoming Don. She’s drinking, smoking, lying (claiming her idea for the Popsicle art was “original” when the imagery is obviously reminiscent of pictures of Christ), and gaining more control in the office.
Is there symbolism in the (blood) red roses that Joan left after his fiancé raped her in Don’s office? Very poignant scene, but so hard to watch. And I’m wondering if it’s somehow tied into Betty and her bleeding.
New and Improved - In no way do I think Joan's rape was just something she imagined. The thing is, Joan's fiance definitely didn't think he raped her, and Joan would probably say he didn't rape her, because people at that time would consider any sexual contact between people in a relationship to be consensual and not rape. That does not mean that Greg didn't rape her - he did, but most people at the time wouldn't have seen it that way. Rape was something that a scary stranger did, not your boyfriend or husband. When Joan realized she couldn't stop him, she zoned out. Afterward, they acted casual because Dr. A-hole didn't see anything wrong in what he did, and Joan was just trying to keep the peace and deal with what happened to her. She finally caught her doctor, and she has to figure out if his actions are something she's willing to put up with in order to keep him. Notice how she she left the flowers that he brought her on her desk. I think there is some symbolism in the lost blood red roses.
I think the familiarity in the popsicle ad is something that Peggy took from her parish. Remember she said the Catholic church can sell anything. The woman in the picture is in the same pose as the Virgin Mary. Look at her hands and her stance...and the foreshadowing of Father Gil being called to the parish for Peggy.
Damaged Woman - Sorry, but it was NOT common for mothers in the 60s to grab their kids by the hair and lock them in a closet. Only psycho abusive ones, maybe!
I believe they are trying to show child punishments as they were in the '60s. Betty is one of my favorite characters. I don't think she realizes how abusive that behavior is, but Betty is always being abused: by Don, that comedian, her senile father, every man that falls in love with her stunning looks.
I was Sally's age then, and my Dad yelled ALOT, but we never were physically punished, altho our pets were!
Someone told me that a Catholic School punishment was to make a child eat "a dry lunch": peanut butter sandwich with no drink.I know it isn't as exciting as putting infants under churches, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Great episode. So many things going one. Anna being introduced was encouraging. It's amazing how California seems so much modern than it's New York counterpart. It seemed like everything going on in San Pedro was contemporary and fresh and everyone in New York seemed antiquated and obselete.
Also, the issue with Joan and her fiancee. I was horrified. I'm 26 and can't imagine living in a time when this type of behavior was acceptable. It made me sick. I hope Joan takes her fiesty attitude and gets the hell away from that sexual deviant rapist!
Can't wait for the season finale next week! (Kind of sad this season is already over. Boo.) Does anyone know when Season 3 begins?
As for Pete and Peggy's baby...IF the baby is still around, not having been adopted already, and IF Peggy tells Pete about it, Pete could do a secret deal with the adoption folks and get his kid and bring it home. That way, Trudy gets her baby fix and he gets one with his bloodline, without having to fess up to Trudy.
But how would that work? Can this happen in one episode? Only one left for this season. I don't think there's enough time to tie up this loose end. Maybe it will end with Peggy telling him about the kid and when the story resumes next season (in 2 years MM time). hmmmm delicious
Regarding Alice's comment about Roger's "children": was she making a snarky comment about Jane, or could Roger have an illegitimate child? Could this child possibly be Ken Cosgrove? Sorry, this is just one of my secret theories. It feels good to be able to share it. Ken and Roger remind me of each other.
Concerning Betty on the telephone: Betty has just been through psychoanalysys. The big PA! Can't you see that this has made her a no BS person? From shooting her neighbors pigeons with a shot gun, to telling Don to get out. She's not going to live with denial. From anyone. Not even Bobby or Sally's, "I didn't do it!"
This is how the comedian was able to so easily get her to believe the truth about Don and Bobbie.
SarahBeth is going to get the same treatment. Betty is calling a spade, a spade - no denial. It's called successful psychoanalytic treatment! Good for Betty for walking away from treatment with her princess eyes wide open. "Whine, whine": "But, Betty, you set us up!" I'll take some good old-fashioned, psychoanalyzed, non-denial friends over people who can't admit to what's reality, anytime.
Why did Roger talk to Peggy with such disdain when he said, "What do YOU want?" in the scene where she asks him for Freddy's office? Did they ever clash before?
To wasthere, Laura Petrie, gage, number1fan an others:
The hot rod scene was not from the past. The hot rod guy tells Don that he built the car from several different parts and lists all the model years. One part the guys says was from something built in 1960. (“a ’60 nailhead”). So it HAS to be after 1960. Don even tells the guys that he "USED to sell these cars used", referring to his past days as a car salesman. Don is also wearing the new clothes that Ana got for him and he mentions that he is looking for work. Add it all up and this scene is taking place in present day 1962.
Great lines in this week’s episode:
Sally to Betty: “He left because you’re stupid and mean.”
Roger to Alice about the mink: “I’m sorry, I don’t know who’s eyes to look at.”
Peggy to Pete: “I’m sleeping with Don. It’s working out.”
And the Alice Roger exchange…
ALICE: You have your children to look after.
ROGER: I just have the one.
ALICE: Really?
Boom!!! In ‘yo face Roger!
To Zabadu, Nolomis, Mad@TV:
Despite your attempts to explain it away, I still say Alice is racist. (what a shocker considering it’s 1962). She and Bert openly discuss the merger in front of the help from the moment she walks in his office. They both seemed to have no problem openly discussing a sensitive topics like the stock price, not to mention the merger itself. So Berts comment to Alice was not about Cleveland keeping his mouth shut, it was about Bert reassuring his sister that the black man she does not know wouldn’t put something in the drink she just ordered. Wow, even with a show that has proven its self to be lathered in the racism of the early 1960s, it’s cute how you white folks refuse to acknowledge those attitudes even existed. (and still do). No wonder it took so long for a President Obama to even be remotely possible.
angelini: Ken also does "extra" things for Roger, like keep an extensive list of high-priced call girls, and as you pointed out, gets paid more! Hmmmm...
Hi All--Loved this episode. It's amazing how different Jon Hamm looks just by changing his expressions in the flashback and present day with Anna. Their relationship seems like brother and sister and it was uplifting to see Don so relaxed and reflective. Don said he was just scratching to get into his life and longingly looking out the window while hearing the ocean - lovely, ending.
As far as Betty's reaction to Sally's smoking - I think it was a little strong - but I do agree that children back then were often punished with spanking, etc. I had a nun in school that used to take you by one of your cheeks and "run you around the classroom" - she actually used to ask the student (offender) if he or she wanted to "take a run around the room"! Everyone I know that went to Catholic school rarely told their parents about a nun's punishment of them, as we all knew that our parents would AGREE with the nun! Was that extreme - yeah - but it didn't kill us. So I really didn't find the scene with Betty and Sally tramatizing. However, you could tell that Betty felt badly about it - hence the present and also the truth about her dad's unknown whereabouts. I guess Sally will never forget her mother telling her the news.
I loved Peg - she is such a riot with her line to Pete about how she got the office. Sorry though about Joan - love her - she does not deserve that lousy doctor.
As for Betty and Sarabeth--I think Betty has a code of ethics - as she said - wanting something isn't having it.
I agree with LoveMM that a viewer needs to watch the show as a representation of an era with different attitudes/values/assumptions, not as a modern day show in period drag.
The creators are working very hard to present put the show in period and not just with product placement and fashions: the behavior seems appropriate by my memories.
That said, this was indeed a time of change, much of it still undercurrent, but definitely there. Contrary to myth, lots of mothers did indeed work in the 50s, for example. And attitudes toward parenting were in flux -- there could be a big difference, for example, between the way parents who had delayed marriage/kids because of WW2 raised their kids, a way that would reflect the harsher attitudes of the 20s and 30s, and the parents who came of age after the war whose parenting reflected more modern attitudes.
The creators are getting a lot right in this show. Those of us in the audience who are younger can watch and learn a lot about why older folks act and think the way they do. Today's attitudes did not suddenly appear full grown -- they grew out of, and in response to, attitudes that came earlier.
i am so confused! can anyone clarify this for me:
is Don still with that girl "Dawn" in California? OR did he go to visit the real Mrs. Drapper in the present day too? I know a bunch of scenes with the real Mrs. Drapper were flashbacks, but I'm not sure if they were present day as well. Thank you in advance to anyone who clarifies this for me.
1) Heh--"The Two Mrs. Drapers." Anna is what Don sorely needs--a real friend who knows the score and can level with him. And I dunno why she calls herself an "old lady"--she looks younger now than she did back in her NYC days. Cali will do that for ya...:)
2) Why do I have the horrible feeling Joan is going to hang with Dr. Scum out of guilt--and feeling like she has no other options? I don't like her, but I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.
3) Popsicles as a religious experience? I wonder who the mother in the ad reminded the Popsicle guy of--the Virgin Mary, maybe? And one of the things that makes this show so great is showing how advertising is as much a reflection of those who create it as it is of what those folks think people want to see.
4) Gotta give Pete credit (and that's _really_ hard to do.) His reasons for not wanting a kid are lousy, but at least he's realized that he's not cut out to be a parent and doesn't want to have a child just because everyone else is. I don't blame him for blowing up at Trudy--that kind of underhanded "I want a baby no matter what" breeder brain tactic is inexcusable. She deserved to have it thrown back in her face.
5) Heh--Sheila dumped Kinsey. Figured she'd realize he was a first-degree poseur. :)
7) And it's a lovely irony that the fake Don Draper can appreciate the first Mrs. Draper for her character--whereas the real Draper didn't even think enough of her to mention he was married. The first Mrs. Draper's predicament sounds very biblical as well--it's a good bet the real Draper married her because her family wouldn't let the younger sister get married until the oldest was hitched.
This episode really hit me hard because Joan looks very, very much like an old girlfriend who was the love of my life 20 years ago. All you would have to do is change her red hair to dark brown. We were madly in love, but sadly both married to other people. I could never have even imagined treating her like Joan was treated here.
Just remembered another punishment doled out by some of the urban teachers in the school where I began my teaching career:
Squatting on the floor and balancing dictionaries in each hand.
This was in the early 1980s.
I believe that some of the viewers/posters are quite young and can't imagine what life was like in the '60s. It was very different with sooo much less government!
Much as I admire this show I fear it's beginning to stretch credulity. Peggy's a copy writer who not only gets an office but is allowed to lead pitches to clients? Maybe it was different back in the early 60s, but in my experience we copy writers were largely treated as grunts and kept in the back room (and I would've been laughed back to my desk if I came up with an eight word tag line with three commas in it). But that's nitpicky stuff compared to this revelation about Joan's husband? Where did THIS come from? Sorry, but smells like a blatant plot device to me, which means it gives her a reason to stoke things up with Roger again and douse his flame for the twenty year old. Also, as much as I think some backstory was necessary in regard to Don, are we going too far with the orginal Mrs. Draper? And was it just me or did anyone else cringe when Don was telling the woman about "meeting a girl"? I just don't see him as a guy who would gush about a woman, much less blush over it. Even in his twenties.
Bottom line I think the show is getting too far away from the office. Someone mentioned earlier that they thought Duck would be gone if the Brits' deal falls through, but here's hoping he's not. Lately, he's been the only one providing the office intrigue/backstabbing/power-dealing that, at the end of the day, is the show's strength.
I loved this episode, especially for the healing that Don/Dick seemed to be getting being with Anna Draper. What a wonderful soul and friend she seemed to be for him - very accepting and loving.
Cracked up over Peggy morphing into one of the boys with the drinking and smoking. The person who seemed the most pissed off over Peggy's new office was Harry Crane. Well, Harry got more $$, but Peggy got her own office. We'll see who goes farther in the end.
Peggy may end up being the one who will help Joan. Normally, Joan could handle her own problems, but I think this one (being raped) is only going to escalate and break her. Peggy's in a position to be magnanimous enough to possibly lend Joan a hand of support when she'll need it. It won't be coming from any men - it'll be another woman, and I think that woman would be Peggy for Joan. I think that's the first time I've ever seen Joan "cowed" by a man - it made me cry.
The first case tried for marital rape was in 1978 Rideout vs State of Oregon in which Rideout was found not guilty because forcible penetration was considered part of "marital privilege" or exempt from the definition of rape.
The only reason Betty bought Sally the riding boots is because Sarah Beth Carson is no longer a friend or her occasional riding partner anymore.
I don't think Don is going back to Sterling Cooper anytime soon. Just watched the scene with the hotrodders for the third time tonite. It's the present (for him and he's wearing a 60's type shirt), but he does mention he's looking for a job so I think he's leaving advertising for the time being. Even with his 12% Don would not have been able to affected the final vote. I think Duck has a few months to destroy things as head of Creative, and grind Bert and Roger under his heels before the 51% British owners go looking for Don Draper again. Remember, the advertisers may start crying like banshees if they end up hating how Duck Phillips does things in business.
zabadu,
I was a child in the 60s, too, and was in 5th grade when JFK was killed, which means I would have been about the same age as Sally back then. And it saddens me to say, but yes, some nice, attractive, educated suburban mothers did grab their kids by the hair, etc.; in my case, my mother shoved me barefoot and in pajamas out the front door and into the snow for being 'sassy.' It wasn't considered abuse, but discipline, just as what happened to Joan probably wouldn't have been considered rape by anyone in authority. Also like Sally, my father drank, cheated (these came a bit later), and occasionally used physical force on my mother (remember Don shoving Betty about 5 episodes back, saying something like, "With the day I've had, I could throw you out the window."?) Anyway, women and kids didn't have rights as we know them now. The show is doing a beautiful job of illustrating that.
Roger can be such a short-sighted fool. He's completely forgotten that the man who brought them this deal (Duck) was the one he just got through demolishing for asking for a partnership percentage.
And Roger doesn't think Duck isn't smarting from that, and may have ulterior motives? Where's Don the con, when you need him?
Roger, Bert, and Don are all going to "pay" for Roger's particular smart-ass, off the cuff putdown that he levied at Duck without second thoughts. Whew boy, bad day at black rock for Sterling Cooper. Duck has a BIG axe to grind especially with Roger and Don (if he ever comes back).
Love Don wading into the purifying waters while Bert is wading through all the numbers... both trying to find their futures...
Peggy's office is right beside Don's...
Peggy and Pete do seem to be moving into being equals (or at least much more so)... Peggy creative (barer of their son) and Pete financial - accounts, as he deals with his own lost family fortunes and how to work out his 'problem' of a wife who wants to adopt, when he already has a son... love the interwoven ironies there...
With Bert reluctantly going ahead with the deal for the sale, and his sister wanting to hear Don's views because she thinks he's insightful "about these things" AND the deal is only at the counter offer stage... the writers have left the door open for Don to come in late in the game and talk Bert and Alice out of the deal...
There is HOWEVER the logic of Don needing a serious rival at the agency for dramatic tension and if Duck is dumped at the 11th hour in season 2, then does Roger become the rival for Don in season 3? It was Pete in season one, then Duck... who's next?
Peggy and Don and Ken and Sal and Joan would be a great core for a rival agency to Sterling Cooper...
Lucky, I agree, Alice is racist. Plus talking around the help was not done. This is 1962 New York and I am sure they had something like a page six back then.
Jendalessan
You may be right..Betty could have had a miscarriage. Think about it... She had sex with Don at her Father's house just before he left on the California trip. After all that she returns to riding at the club, a lot? She might not have known she was pregnant. Which would explain why she was caught by surprise.
you know last season I was a supporter and defender of what i perceived to be an "emerging" person in the character of Betty....however this season i am not so sure any more...
... as a former child development professional ...i have to say that grabbing your child by the hair and forcing her into a closet IS NOT an appropriate method of discipline! I really think that Betty's character just in that momment "lost it"..
My sympathies to those of you who think that Betty's response to Sally's smoking episode was acceptable.
first, to bettymurielsarte, i love your name and does anyone else recognize the reference to a great sketch from the original monty python british comedy series of the early 70s?
on to business: the sale of the agency is not a "done deal" by any means. after the vote, bert instructed the attorney to prepare a counteroffer. legally, a counteroffer is a rejection of an offer. the potential buyer (the british firm) has no obligation to accept any counteroffer and the negotiations can simply stop - no deal! however, the previews could indicate that some "due diligence" is being conducted by the british - for example, they respond to the SC counteroffer by saying, ok, we'll pay your higher price, but only if the book of business is what we think it is - so the absence of the clearisil account, or any other lost account, is their way out of the deal.
Oooooohhhh I love the thought of Peggy, Don, Ken, Joan, and Sal with their own rival agency! It was great when someone told Peggy she should put on Don's pants while she was moving into Freddy's old office.....priceless. I feel sorry for Joan, I hope she nixes the engagement. That guy is SO WRONG for our Joanie. Roger was better.....lol......
Could someone please explain the part of the conversation between Alice and Bert Cooper where she says something like " Don't you want to go to Montana to see your cows?" and also something like "You ruined that young architect's life" and Bert says something like "I do love the cows." What the? Is Alice referring to a young Bert having a gay affair with an architect in Montana on a ranch before becoming the ad man Bert who later married "the late Mrs. Cooper."? I even watched this scene twice and wasn't sure what I was hearing. ALICE COOPER ROCKS THIS EPISODE!
Damaged Woman: No one in my world did that to children. You seem to think EVERYONE did.
Just because nuns, teachers, some mothers, some fathers pulled hair, slapped you with a ruler, whatever...doesn't mean it isn't ABUSE.
Yes, it happened. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is abuse. Notice how one person (Tuberose) said her mother abused her, but she thought it was normal because her father abused her mother. It ISN'T normal behavior, which is why the law has cracked down so hard on it.
So please don't bring your "my mom pulled my hair" into here and say it wasn't abuse. It was. I agree with divayaya - I feel sorry for you.
Mike - the song was George Jones, Cup of Loneliness.
LOVED, BUT LOVED this episode. I too was in shock when Betty grabbed Sally by the hair and put her in the closet, and I agree with some posters, that If my mother ever caught me smoking at the age of 8, I think she would have done alot worse. I am by no means justifying what Betty did, but I think she cant handle the power which has been given to her. Like Helen said to her, "The hardest part is accepting that you are in charge" Betty cant accept it yet. When she heard Sally crying in the closet, she felt bad, so she opened it and let her out, and told her to do her homework and that she would forget the whole thing. Anna was a beautiful character, and she told Don to his face, people change you can change your habits, in which Don says no I cant, and she tells him yes you can, anybody can, you did, I think the last shot of Don being reborn was beautiful. He is comfortable in his Dick Whitman role, but not so much in the Don Draper role anymore. He was offered a new life by Anna, and he knows he screwed it up big time. I think he will go back to NYC a changed man, and will want to focus his new life with Betty and the children, rather than Sterling Cooper agency. Anna made him realize how much he loves his family, but its HIS DON DRAPER which is screwing it up. I think Betty would be so happy, and healthier if Don was Dick Whitman. I hope he confesses to her if not this season, then next season. I think they could both grow from there. And I think Betty is pregnant, and Joan might contemplate suicide but it wont happen.
This episode was riveting. I was on the edge, my heart was racing, and I was held breathless through most of the episode.
Don fixing the chair for Anna was sad in a way. Why couldn't he do that for Betty?
I had my hair and ponytail pulled exactly like that as a child. I wasn't thrown in the closet. Maybe Betty put her in there so she wouldn't hit her. When she told Sally that she had Don were having a disagreement she could of been really sadistic and emotionally abusive and told Sally that her daddy cheated on her mommy and had sex with another woman. Sally knows a lot for an eight year old and she would've understood.
There wasn't a scene showing Betty opening the suitcase. I guess she figured out where he was from the luggage tag? I don't think she knew about the business trip to Cal.
I wonder why Don didn't have a romantic relationship with Anna. Was it respect for the real Don Draper? Because she would've jumped on that like white on rice.
Great observation by some on the Virgin Mary image in the ad. Who did the artwork, was it Sal? Did Peggy direct him to draw it that way? I was wondering what the Popsicle guy was seeing that was familiar.
Why did, I think, Ken say that Peggy needed to get a new couch for her office? Was it because of Freddie wetting his pants? I didn't think he was on the couch at the time.
The new deal isn't a done deal with the merger. Bert Cooper told Roger to make a counter offer after the vote. Maybe Don will get back and nix the deal and Duck at the same time. I loved the diamonds on the doorknobs comment by Roger.
Loved Roger saying he didn't know which eyes to look at.
And, the book "Meditations in an Emergency". I don't think any of us thought he sent it to Anna. Glad that was cleared up.
I hated the scene with Joan. I wonder how Christina Hendricks felt about that scene. It must have been difficult to even play that scene. He was holding her head in that position, even though she would've looked away.
I loved Don walking into the ocean and cleansing himself of his sins. He'll return to start fresh and not cheat on Betty and she'll be the hellraiser and the tables will turn on him. At least he didn't walk on water, that would've been too much.
Was the Mountain King music played in season one? It seems familiar.
My On Demand hasn't worked since Hurricane Gustav and Charter is doing a poor job of determing how to fix it. Is all of season two still available on On Demand? When will the DVDs be available for sell? Do you think AMC will have a marathon and show the entire season two after the show is over?
I, too, am just so upset about what happened to Joan. Yes, it would be wonderful if she dumped him, but I think we are thinking with 2008 brains, not 1960's brains. The feminist movement has not yet gained momentum. Joan is a woman with a past, even if she does not speak of it - "Greg, remember, there was no before you...." or whatever she said, exactly. She has landed herself what society would consider a "good catch" - doctor, successful, good solid job, good looking, etc. Joan has a history of relationships (at least one that we know of) with married men that are, of course, unavailable. Remember when she was passed over for a man when she had done such a good job on the television work? Joan is savvy, and smart, and knows how the world works in the 60's. There is no way she is gonna just dump the doctor. In her mind, he was "rude" but not criminal. It wasn't a crime to rape your wife or girlfriend back then, as distasteful as this is for us now.
Roger is not going to swoop in and save her. This isn't Cinderella, and he is no one's Prince Charming. JMHO but the only saving grace I can see for Joan is a developing friendship with Peggy. As Peggy progresses and does well, maybe Joan will be inspired to try to move up in her career, and thus find the strength to stand on her own. But really, this is the 60s' What woman, besides Peggy, wanted a long-term career? Marrying well and being the perfect homemaker was the absolute ideal.
I had the oddest sensation when Dick/Don was first confronted by Anna and he said "what are you going to do to me?" that he was echoing words he'd said as a child, perhaps before being beaten by his stepfather or stepmother. There was someting in the tone that sounded more like a fearful child than grown man.
Anybody else notice the homemade windchimes on Anna's porch made of forks and spoons?
Perhaps Alice Cooper's oblique reference to "what you did to that poor architect" in Wyoming was an allusion to someone like Frank Lloyd Wright (though he only built one house in Cody Wyoming) - Wright's buildings have a sort of Zen feel to them that would appeal to Cooper. Bert has a cattle ranch (he does love his cows, lol) - probably also an investment but something he enjoys. I do not see him retiring to his ranch any time soon. I think there will be a tussle for SC - and Coop enjoys the game too much to walk away.
I *SO* liked Anna and her relationship with Dick Whitman. She allows him to be who he realy is. So sad he still feels on the outside looking in of his own life. She's right in that people are as happy as they choose to be, regardless of circumstances.
Can you see him living in California, on the beach, building/selling hotrods while Betty remains in New York and the kids shuttle back and forth (school year with Mom, summer and holidays with Dad)? If he does get his $500,000+ from the sale of SC I can see him setting Betty up financially, and maybe giving Peggy seed money to start her own business, Olson and Associates (Sal, Ken, maybe Harry, Freddy, and Joan) - like giving Midge the $5K check.
My first thought about "Mommy, you're bleeding!" was an early miscarriage.
Pete's an ass, period. I hope Chauncey enjoyed the roast chicken thrown so cavalierly out the window - and that some poor soul down below wasn't knocked unconscious by the china platter falling from above. Trudy should file for divorce, now, while she can still find someone who actually wants children, even if adopted. I hope his father-in-law makes it clear to Roger or Bert that it was Pete who walked away from the Clearasil account - and let Pete explain why. I hope his high-handed lord-and-master-of-this-house attitude bites him in the butt.
And you go Peggy! That little copier twit was the last straw. Kudos to Roger for giving her the office because she's only one with the balls to ask for it.
Alice Cooper is not necessarily a lesbian. What she is, is a woman of mature years who lives alone and doesn't need a nurse. So she has a "companion," a friend somewhere near her own age who will go places with her. Think a much older Sarah Beth with a much older Betty going to lunch or shopping or to a show.
Don's not sleeping with Anna, mostly because he sees her as a woman deserving of infinite respect as well as someone who knows or he'll tell everything about himself. With Anna, he's only Dick Whitman, a real person, not a construct. She would probably respond favorably if he made a pass but he would expect he to make the first move.
One question though. When they met in the prior episode at the car dealership, why did she take so long to realize he wasn't the real Don Draper if she already knew he'd used her Don's serial number? They hadn't been apart that long. Or had they? Since she said he really wanted her sister.
I loved the way Roger didn't hesitate when Peggy asked for the office. "It's yours." Next question. Total validation of her status. But now she's taking up bad habits - keeping Scotch in a drawer and smoking.
Great to see Pete, the guy we love to hate, back in action with Trudy. On the other hand, he does show total backbone with Daddy-in-law. Big time. Even if it does cost him and SC the Clearasil account. I wonder if the account will come back but with someone else as account exec for it.
One phone call between Don and Betty, telling him he can come back home and Don will be back in NY.
True, Betty pulling Sally by the hair and shoving her into the closet is not recommended child-rearing practice. But Sally was smoking her cigarettes! (Which, by the way, she probably got from Don because he gets them for free from the client, but that's another matter.)
Back then it was called discipline or punishment or simply "getting his/her attention," not abuse. Abuse is a relatively recent word in that context as far as the general public is concerned. Thanks, Dr. Phil, Oprah, Phil Donahue, Sally Jessie et al.
Hair pulling is painful but not half as damaging as verbal abuse or a guilt trip. Putting the Salamander in a dark closet if she's not claustrophobic - call it a time-out location on the main floor, reducing distractions, leaving the kid with nothing to do but think. Could be a lot worse.
Besides, it got Sally to talk honestly with Betty about how she felt about Daddy not being home. That Betty had not "shared" the real reason why Daddy wasn't home left the field wide open for Sally's imagination. And she had no trouble coming up with causes that seemed reasonable to her.
All in all, not a good day/episode for Betty. I'll bet she didn't even notice Sally was wearing her lipstick.
The name of the song is up in the thread. Several times.
I can't believe the amount of you who say pulling hair was a "common parenting style". My God. I was raised in the 60s and no one I knew had parents like that. You all seem to still believe that it's acceptable behavior. You scare me.
The poster who commented about nuns and hiding their pregnancy under the convent reminded me of my next door neighbors when I was a child. They were fundamentalist Christians and would tell me and my siblings that the local Priests had a underground tunnel to the convent for visits.. They also told us to stay indoors during Passover as our Jewish neighbors liked to kill young Chrisitian children in a secret ritual. Religious bigotry and misinformation is alive, well and generally accepted in the U.S. Libelous or hateful comments toward anyone's religion shouldn't be tolerated.
To the poster who said they hoped Joan wouldn't be saved by Roger...I agree. I hope the females in the show begin to stand alone and not look to a man to "save" them. It seems to have only caused them alot of grief.
SMP65: Yes, and all nuns are abusive as well. I spent my childhood around nuns and parents and never had one day of what others say is "normal parenting behavior" for the 60s.
Despite some good lines, I didn't "love" this episode, but (as always) I will watch it again tonight to see what I missed.
The flashback Don has pouffy hair and a "D A" in the back so I believe the hot rodder scene was present day. That freaks me out because of Don saying he needed a job. I don't want Don to stay in Cali.
I felt so badly for Joan--I hope she does dump that guy but I believe women took even more abuse back then than they do now because of even more limited options.
I'm glad Paul got dumped--he is SO irritating and fake.
I found the whole Anna-Don relationship a little *too* implausible. I'd like to see more of that to understand it better.
I guess the locked drawer probably has info about Anna but I wonder why Don would think it safe to leave information in such an easily accessible place. I mean, I can't believe Betty hasn't forced the drawer open yet--it's not like she cares if Don knows she opened it.
Lucky Strike--yes, I believe Alice is probably a racist but I have to tell you I find your comment, "it’s cute how you white folks refuse to acknowledge those attitudes even existed. (and still do)." offensive.
Too many posts! But I have to add a couple of thoughts:
1. There were good and bad (abusive) parents in the 60s just like now. And catching an 8-year-old smoking would probably push most mothers' buttons.
2. Believe it or not, we actually had tampons in the 60s and also slim sanitary pads.
I didn't understand the plot purpose of showing/having Joan getting raped by her fiancee. In previous episodes/scenes you already established that the guy is an asshole. The scene really annoyed and angered me.
It just seems you're trivializing rape in the same why you trivializing drinking, in the "it was the 60's everyone drank on the job; it was the 60's and men raped women". I just got the sense you're just threw the rape scene into the episode more for the shock value for audience and as some of the show's critics have suggested the show really about a twisted male fantasies. And isn't that why Joan's Fiancee force himself on her in first place? "Fix me a drink. C'mon I've seen the movies, it's what that what they do all day, isn't it?" Joan's Fiancee has an image that all the executives drink and force themselves on their secretaries so he wants to act on that impluse too.
I'm also finding it hard to believe Joan's character can have so much control over the men in the office yet be complete subservient to her asshole fiancee: "honey, aren't you going to get my drink", comment when Joan's is trying to tell him about her day in a previous episode.
She certainly set the boundres with her affair with Roger Sterling, she knew Kinsey wasn't right for her and dumped him, but she's so smitten by this jack-ass she can't see the abuse? C'mon, where's the Joan who called Kinsey a phony for dating a black woman because he thought it would make him appear hip and improve his faux artist image?
However, congratz on making me angery enough about a TV show about fictional characters, in fictional sitituations and get me to write a comment.
OK, I'm at the end, but don't know where my post will wind up!
Did anyone else catch Bert's comment about Alice's companion? Is she a lesbian?
And the humor of Alice Cooper as her name was too funny!!
I didn't understand the Montana, cows, archtitect (sp?) comments from Alice to Bert.
I don't like Alice because of the way she acted toward Bert's waiter (I can't remember the gentleman's name). What a racist bitch....but, again, early 1960's.
This is way off, but, did anyone see Bobby appear in a Huckleberry Hound Halloween mask when Betty was pulling her closet move with Sally?
The reason I mention the Halloween mask is we must be getting close to October 1962. I don't know if that was the writers' way of giving us a time frame for the show?
Betty's putting Sally in the closet reminded me of the scenes in the movie "Carrie" where her wack nut mother put her in the closet.
Congrats to the Maddicts who talked about the sex scene with Betty and Don at her father's home.
I really thought it was a dream.
But, now I'm think it must have happened, she became pregnant, and in the scene where Sally noticed Betty was bleeding, she was having an early miscarriage, which is usually just a heavy period.
My 2 cents for this week...
It's 10:44 eastern standard time ... this time stamp is so messed up people are asking the same questions , making the same statements over and over its all attributed to this screwed-up time stamp. This post here will be skewed an hour back.
Bocaratonfan - I was thinking the same thing about the merger deal. This is only the first step. There are many things that can nix it. Thanks for explaining the process so succinctly.
i was raised in the 60s and while mom went after us with wooden spoons or dad's belt from time to time (mostly we just ran away from her!), she never pulled my hair. i do recall the neighbor mom pulling and jerking her daughter's hair while she fixed it before sending the girl off to school. i remember being shocked and thought this was really mean. this same mom smoked like a chimney, wore her babydoll pajamas outside with her bleached blond hair in rollers, worse sky blue eyeshadow, and drank coca cola all day starting in the morning.
I think the whole MOMMY YOUR BLEEDING was indeed not a pregnancy, but just a normal period from a female. But I think the symbolism here is that Betty is known as a child throughout season 1 and a little bit in this season. I think her getting her period, in this episode symoblized that she is now a woman. She isnt a little girl anymore. She confronted Sally about Don might not coming home and telling her honestly and lovingly, that if he doesnt come home that they will still be okay. I also think that Betty buying her riding boots is an indication that Betty wants to get to know her daughter, and vice versa. Now that Sarabeth is out of the picture at the stables, atleast Betty will be spending time with her daughter, who I think Sally wants to be like, hence the cigaretts and the lipstick. I think Sally idolizes her mother just like she idolizes her father. She wants everything to be perfect but in reality she knows it isnt, hence she lashed out at her mother, in which we see Betty's mean and domineering demeanor melt away. She knows that kicking Don out of the house is not only hurting her, but is also hurting her children. I too think that if she calls Don to come back, he will be there in a heartbeat. He is "hopefully" a changed man with his baptism in the sea, but I just hope Betty starts to understand him like Anna understood him. What Don/Dick needs to do is be honest with Betty, and from there they can grow. I think Betty could still be preggers as in the teaser for next week, we see her talking to I am guessing Francine about an abortion (again I am only speculating, or she could be saying she doesnt know if she wants Don back) but then we see her looking at a department store with mannequins, and I saw a baby bump. Maybe she is indeed preggers, or she is looking at the store, as she has to find a job if Don doesnt come back, and she has to support herself and the kids.
I thought the baptism song was beautiful at the end, sorry for those who can't appreciate. It's true, a woman had no credibility in a rape case, she was just liable for further humiliation, and in public. It wasn't till the 1970s in NY state that an agency was set up to deal with child abuse - prior to that it was handled by small private Children's Aid Societies. The Biblical "spare the roid and spoil the child" still informs this culture. Women and children had no rights or credibility at all. It really was a (white) man's world then - but I don't think the remark about Cleveland was racist - I think it was to assure her that they were safe to converse, their conversation would stay in that room. When I heard teh remark to Roger about how amny children I thought of all the random boinks in his life, though I now see of course they meant Jane. I would like to see Joan contented, respected and loved. I think Betty and Joan might be getting set up for the Women's movement - and Peggy might be a kind of leader in her way. The new setup for Don seems to be he loves his wife and children but not the life they live - that he feels at home where he doesn't have to fear being found out - I really like Anna and am so relieved that he didn't dog that connection away. Naybe that will be his open conflict. Amazing how John Hamm's expressions alone can take him from one age to 20 years later.
Next season, I think that maybe Don, being freshly "baptized" will try to start his marriage anew — fully committed to Betty, while Betty may be the one stepping out. She seems ready to explode. I think she's bleeding in more ways than one and needs change/relief. I don't think Don and Betty will ever get it together. Poor Sally and Bobby...
Joan cannot marry that creep now. What's she going to do? They can't get rid of the character via suicide, because she's too good for the show to lose. Maybe she'll try and fail.
I think Betty had a miscarriage. She was holding her stomach at the end of that scene, as if she was cramping. Or maybe she finds out she is pregnant, based on the preview for next week where she cries, "I don't know what to do. I can't go through with this." BTW, I read an interview this weekend where January Jones says that Betty does not enjoy being a mother. That's been so clear to see. It's a shame that she was more maternal with that creepy kid, Glen.
maddfann, thanks! i think this proposed "deal" can easily blow up and dash roger's hopes of being more liquid and therefore more able to "buy off" mona in the divorce negotiations (what will happen to young jane if roger's unable to extricate himself qyuickly from his marriage? will she wait for him?) bert really doesn't want to sell the company anyway. and it's immaterial to his obviously very wealthy and clever older sister. (btw, we now know that the sister "helped" bert start the firm (with roger's dad) with seed money in exchange for an ownership interest as a "silent" partner).
we also now know a few other things:
that roger has been with the company for 20 years (since 1942). he must have been away during the war as a naval officer, however. also, he was married to mona long before he started working for the company (they've been married 25 yrs, since 1937). and roger was introduced to mona by bert's wife, "the late mrs. cooper" possibly when roger and mona were very young; he's been with mona for 30 yrs, as he told jane last episode. that would mean they met in 1932. possibly roger and mona have known each other since high school and married right after roger's graduation from college.
we also now know that bert indeed feels morally obligated to "take care of roger", probably because of a promise to his now-dead partner, roger's late dad.
also, if the partners sell the company, they no longer own a controlling interest in the new one, and the only way they will keep their jobs is to have employment contracts with the new firm. these will be separate from the contract to purchase their partnerhip interests in the firm. the buyer/new owner may not want to keep them on after the takeover.
Great episode ! For the first time Don has shown respect and even awe for a woman. Anna is a true earth mother for those that are old enough to remember the term. She loves and respects Don for whats on the inside and not the outside. Don (or Dick) is totally truthfull and open around her. There is hope for the man. Now I think I understand why Don helps Peggy so much. I think in her he see's another Anna, Maybe there is a chance for him yet. My guess is that Don will head home soon and become more open with his wife and maybe he'll include Anna in the picture. We will see. Or maybe he will move out to the Coast and use his money to start some type of Ad Company in California.
I felt so bad for Joan. Her chauvinist fiancé was probably still upset that she tried to get on top the night before and then finding out that Roger knew so much about her personally could have set him off. It’s probably not the first time it’s happened, since she was disassociating by staring off to the side as she was being raped. Unfortunately she might still go through with the marriage due to the societal expectations of that era. She might endure the poor treatment from that beast because of the prestige of becoming a doctor’s wife. Plus she’s in her mid thirties now so she’s probably wanted to get married for a while. I hope she confides in Peggy and is able to get some support and encouragement to regain her strength.
Chesterton - I agree with you. I don't think the remark was racist, but that they trusted Cleveland and can talk freely around him.
I also love how Alice pointedly mentions Roger's kids, as in reference to Jane and possibly their kids as well, if they do get married. Hope we see more of Alice; she's a sharp cookie!
I love the way the show is written. For all my "opinions" about and reactions to what I see every week, I just love that the writers capture "life". None of us live in a vacuum or in black and white. I have to fight with myself sometimes so that I don't look at Don and the rest through my current prism (2008). I was around back then and much of it resonates. I made it through all those eras and am still here - and I think I might even be sane.
Someone much earlier on the thread commented on the fact that "Don was married to the first Mrs. Draper!" Just to clarify, Dick Whitman did not marry her, the real Don Draper did. Since Dick took Don't identity, he would have had to divorce her to marry anyone else, because "on paper" he was now Don Draper.
Okay, I liked this episode a lot better than last week's. It's good to get this background information on Don. However, they didn't need last week's shenanigans to get him there. The fact that he was in California would have been enough reason for him to call her. All that stuff with the traveling richburies was completely unneccessary... and boring.
That said, it's time to get Don back to SC already! I like seeing this side of him, but he really isn't fully Don Draper unless he spends some time at his office. The development of his character in tonight's episode was good, but enough is enough. Back to the office, Mr. Draper!!
Don't know where to begin. All the posts are right on. I hated the scene with Joan/Dr. Dread. Joan tuned out of the situation, because she wants the dignity of marriage nio matter what. The popsicle ad reminded me of the Last Supper. Note the circle (halo) behind the mother's head. Betty is endorsing checks with Don;s signature. I have to go back and see where the check is from. I have already watched the encore presentation and will watch the episode again to make sure I didn't miss anything. Glad the mystery was solved as to whom Don mailed to book to. How long would you say Don took care of Anna?? When he fixed her chair, I died laughing.. To be continued...
Ok yeah, the whole thing with Joan and the good doctor seems like the writers are trying a bit too hard to stir things up about. In all honesty, I havent been crazy about these past two episodes. Course, I didnt start watching the show until season two, episode two... and I was hooked. But these last two episodes have been slightly disconcerting in a not so interesting way, but a way that leaves you feeling uncomfortable and confused. The whole don/dick thing threw me for a loop because I didnt witness that whole situation. The biggest questionmark was the don/dick chrsistmas scene?? I mean, im guessing that was a flashback but were they living together or did he just come to visit..? LA or NYC?
I hope this show doesnt end anytime soon. I love it. I wish I could watch season one online somewhere
continued...I have been taking notes during the program and find it easier to keep up. Betty, Trudy and Sally are truly "daddy's girls." I had trouble distinquishing between current and flashback scenes with Don and Anna. Thanks for the haircut tip. IMO there has to be a final clash between Duck and Don. I think Roger will find out that Jane was using him to get close to Don; with Don away what's going to happen? I truly hope that the Barretts are out of the picture, and also hope that the Jet Set never shows up again. Great comments and worth the time it took to get through them. See ya
@Auburn Annie: I also thought the architect reference was about Frank Lloyd Wright. Do you know where a mecca exists for Frank Lloyd Wright architecture? You'll never guees. Arizona? No. Pennsylvania? No. BUFFALO, NY! I'm not making this up! Go to the city's website and check it out. I was amazed!!!!
Once again everybody, Betty has just come out of Psychoanalysis. She is not cutting anyone, including her own kids, denial slack. With Betty, you either deal with reality or she isn't going to tolerate it.
Angelboots – I think the California episode was very instrumental in getting Don/Dick to where he is now - soul-searching. It got him to realize how empty all that casual/freely available sex was. I think it also made him understand that the grass wasn’t greener on the other side re: his wife and also his lifestyle in NY (vs. being rich). He was looking for something better and thought he threw it all away. He needed to see the error of his ways. Anna gives him what he needs most now – support and unconditional love. He needed an “earth mother” - after all, he never had a real one.
I liked this episode because it showed a more human and compassionate side of Don/Dick. It’s great that he was supporting Anna all these years and that he could have a respectful relationship with her without making it sexual. It was also nice to see Don all giddy in that flashback when he told Anna about wanting to marry Betty. It showed that he really does have the capacity to love.
@Daavos: Uh, I just read your remarks to my Mom, and we'd like to know, 1. Are you male or female, and 2. Did you write these remarks at 9:42 AM from your place of employment?
Are we going to find out that the real Don Draper has some skeletons in his closet? After all, he wanted to marry Anna's sister. Is the name cursed? Just wondering...hmmm.
@Ritt First time I've after laughed out loud at a poster's remarks. Very good. Saved the BEST (lipstick remark) for the end. Very clever. Good chuckle. Please keep posting.
great comments!
I'm interested to know more about the 'architect situation' that Alice mentioned to Bert. Also, if the merger goes through, I suspect that Duck will be found out as the instigator, and his disloyalty to Roger and Bert will get him kicked to the curb.
as for Don's stay with Anna, great! loved seeing him as a fully three-dimensional character, and I've been dying to get more info on the post-war-pre-Betty years. good to know that he's had at least one person as a constant throughout all of it, who seems to want nothing from him but his happiness...
I predict that next week's finally will end with Don on the phone to Betty saying 'we need to talk, there's something I need to tell you...'
I suspect that Joan will stay with the doctor, at least for a little while, as it seems that date rape was not considered 'non-consensual' at the time [correct me if I'm wrong] - I think she simply didn't feel that she has a choice if she wants to be married. She seems to see the clock ticking...also the interaction with Peggy made me think that Joan sees a possible friendship, although she is now clearly a subordinate. Joan sort of broke my heart this episode. hope she ultimately gets out of her engagement, but I think this one can go either way.
I don't think Betty is pregnant or miscarrying, she simply got her period - I took it to be a symbol of the fact that, although she is buckling up and trying to get a handle on her unmanageable world, there are still things that she can't control.
and I'm happy that Pete stood up to Trudy and her father. I've never liked her, what's with the running to daddy because her husband won't adopt with her? I'm sure I'm alone in this, but I actually liked Pete more this episode. Sure, he's acting like a ...whatever...but still, that whole family is cornering him every way possible, and never considering what he may want. he's a weasel and all...righty...but still, she's a spoiled little 'keep up with the joneses' princess.
hope to see more of Anna.
I think Don's real passion is cars not advertising.
I thought the rape thing was not real. Afterward, Joan came out of the office as though nothing happened and the boy friend just stood there. I thought she fantasized the whole scene because he was not interested the night before. I did have a problem with her acting like a rapee instead of enjoying it. Makes no sense.
I said it before and I''ll say it again Betty got pregnant by somebody, stable guy, mechanic or whoever and jumped on Don's bones to make it look like he is the father!! No? We' ll see
The remark to Roger about his "children" included his baby-kins lover. Funny! I loved it!
Don did not frown in this episode. I think he has had it with power and advertising.
I really liked this episode but it played out predictably. They made it so mysterious with the phone call at the end of the last episode when it was just the character from the one flashback of the season. All I'm saying is that they could have revealed more about her earlier to debunk the mystery of the other person and focus on the mystery of don's self and how will he come through on the other side of this journey. The concept of the self this season focuses on is extremely fascinating because its not argumentative but expressive.
When Anna tells Don "i understand if you dont want to talk about it" was she referring to something other than their divorce?
When does Dick become Don? we see it the christmas eve flash back that he still is very much Dick in character, when does he change into Don, the secretive and determined exec?
Good Day everyone!
I'm new to this forum and to the show, but I have really been liking what I've seen so far. I haven't viewed Season 1, but I have seen most of Season 2 -- I can't believe there is a finale next week already!
In any case, it was great to see the 'human' side of Don/Dick in Sunday's episode. I loved how his face lit up when he was telling Mrs. Draper about his initial meeting of Betty. The happiness and joy in his demeanor was just amazing (and shocking to me, as Don is usually stoic).
It also 'redeemed' him in my eyes (just a bit) that he has been financially taking care of Mrs. Draper all of these years. She's a wonderful woman; I don't know if I would strike up a friendship with a man who stole my husband's identity! Obviously, she is a dear and trusted friend/confidant for Don -- someone who is grounded and doesn't judge him. I think that is why he is so close with her.
It's too bad that he is so happy in Cali - he obviously can't stay there forever as he does have responsibilities back home (work/family). He seems to be able to be free and the last scene with him walking in the ocean, symbolizes (to me at least) his awakening, and feeling/being 'free/clean' while there in California.
I am SO SHOCKED about Joan's fiancee and what he did to her. Absolutely disgusting! :o( Poor woman.
Wonderful show indeed!!! I can't wait to see what happens during the finale next week and I am looking forward to Season 3 like all of you are.
@florenceknoll: I don't mean to be unkind to a new viewer, but if you missed Season One, then you are missing everything, and nothing will truly be clear to you, or bite you as hard. Saying you didn't understand the Don/Dick thing, is like saying you're watching "Superman" and you don't understand what Clark Kent has to do with the story.
As much as I liked Don carefree and in the surf, I still want Big Alpha Dog Don runnin' "thangs!" He can be written as enlightened yet not de-balled! The MM writers are that smart and talented! The wussification of Don will not be a pleasure to watch!
I'd love to embrace the kinder, gentler Don who is good to Anna but it is very hard to reconcile with his treatment of his brother. Does not tell Anna what happened....
I have to go back to previous episodes to see if Freddy Rumson's door was pink! I don"t remember. Way to go, Peggy. I think Pegs will be the one to help Joan out of her quagmire.
I've thought for quite a white that Betty's mother was physically and verbally abusive. She seems to cover for her mom extensively, even as she recounts hateful episodes (the psychiatrist called her on it and told her she hated her mom). And unless you make a conscious choice to parent differently -- well, you teach as you've been taught. I also think back to the night she wanted Don to discipline Bobby -- "would you be the man you are today if your father didn't beat you?"
Sally didn't have a lot of fear in her voice. She knew she was naughty but probably did it to engage her mother. Better negative attention than none at all.
@jendalessan.Way up on this thread you commented about Pete and I agree. Most of the time I find Pete to be the villian,the one in the office you love to hate. He redeemed himself by putting his overbearing,meddling father-in-law in his place.I think this will come back and bite Pete in this ass when Cooper and Roger find out why they lost Clearisil. Trudy and Pete need to divorce ASAP and end this charade of a marriage. I actually think Pete and Peg would be more compatible as a couple...
I agree w/ other posters that the Don/Anna connection is a real treat to watch.Don allowed himself to be vulnerable and he probably showed more depth as a person because he had nothing to hide from Anna.I'd love to see Don come clean with Betty,claim back the Dick Whitman name and relocated the family to Cali. Don has the spirit of an artist,I can see him and the family living in Carmel.As an aside,I loved the fork and spoon windschimes at Anna's house.So 60's kitsch!
It was so distrubing to watch the date rape scene.I wanted Joan to run like hell and never look back.I hope she realizes the mistake she's made and kicks him to the curb.
It's interesting to me to see how fired up people get about disclipline in the 60's vs. now. Although Betty might have gone over the top when she caught Sally smoking,she didn't cause injury.I don't condone hair pulling,but she later apologized and she didn't lock her in the closet. Betty's stressed and having to single parent her kids for the first time. We tend to look at this show through 2008 eyes instead of viewing it through the context of the era,early 1960's.
I survived a couple years of Catholic school and they don't play around.If you smart off and disrupt the classroom,you will suffer a consequence.Same thing at home...I got the strap from my Dad, I wasn't abused,I was discliplined and I didn't do it again.Most of the kids in my neighborhood received some minor form of punishment,none of us were totured and we outside playing the next day.My grandmother's ultimate punishment was to make us drink Castor Oil if we were caught talking dirty(swearing).
JOAN: The worst case scenerio will be that the doctor rape in the office also impregnated her (if there was no use of condoms/birth control), and she'll have to marry that bastard. Of course, Joan does go to the OB/GYN who is dispensing the "pill" (but I don't know if early contraceptive pills worked that well), and she would certainly have to hide it from that creep.
Don't think Joan would EVER turn to Roger for help in this instance. It would be an admission of making the wrong choice - Joan has too much pride. Another woman might end up helping Joan, if it comes to that, and I think it'd be Peggy. Peggy is maturing, and seems to have a lot more compassion, empathy and forgiveness for people's f--k-ups (herself, Don, Pete, Freddy) of any of the characters at Sterling Cooper. And, I hope she will help Joan, who steered her wrong from her very first day at Sterling Cooper.
Anna, was quite the person, wasn't she? Not only understanding, compassionate, loving but also an individualist. The beach bungalow, music lessons, tarot cards, unmarried (if I understood it right, she'd recently been living with a guy who she'd kicked out as she told Don) - really just living free. What a grounded, rule-bending anchor for Don/Dick to have in his life. But Anna let it be known he wasn't paramount in her thoughts, although she obviously cared very much for him, but could let him go and have a life free of her. Kind of a shame, because he didn't seem to want to let go of her in his life (the Christmas scene), but I suppose it had to be.
Joan and the doc: The doctor has serious emotional problems. Neither he nor Joan are sexual neophytes but, rather, are sexually experienced: in the bed scene he's not "just tired" and he's not put off by her "getting on top" -- he is impotent. And this problem would nag at him and make him question his "manhood" -- it's not the first time this has happened to him. He is not impotent in the scene in Draper's office, far from it. He doesn't know for sure that Joan has had sex with anyone @ SC, but he may suspect it. However, that is not why he rapes Joan. True, there is something in the atmosphere that turns hims on, but he is a bully and a guy who gets off by hurting women and playing mind games with them. His behavior triggered something deep in Joan. I see the flowers being left behind as not just her simply forgetting them in her upset state of mind (and she is terribly upset, but puts on a good front as always -- she is a master at masking her emotions). The roses symbolize the doctor and she has emotionally rejected him and left him behind, whether or not she realizes it yet.
I am beginning to see that the confidence we all THOUGHT Joan possessed, now merely turns out to being a facade, I am sad to say. Or it has simply crumpled in the face of the prospective finace who just happens to have the title of Thorasic Surgeon -- many women do fall for the title.
We got a peep into her "Achilles Heel" - the episode where her driver's license was displayed on a bulletin board in the break room of the office. Recall...?
We see that she is unfortunately, as are many females, vulnerable where her age is concerned. She is, at this stage a 33 year old, unamarried woman, in the 1960's no less; she's been involved with the married boss with no prospects of anything else than remaining his mistress.
That rape scene said a lot about her degree of self-esteem, especially afterwards in the office and that night later, when the 2 of them were in bed. He definitely has the profile of an abuser, afraid of confidence, especially sexual confidence, in women.
Somehow, I think the sho is going to take the direction of our Joanie going for the abused wife symdrome. :````( Oh we.... keeps the drama alive and well.
Again on Joan and the doc: what turns him on in the office setting is that he can debase Joan in the place where she is the reigning queen, the most powerful female in the place. He degrades her by 1)raping her, (coincidentally?), and 2) by doing so in the office of one of the most powerful men in the firm. This way, the doc builds himself up in his own emotionally twisted mind.
@ bettymurielsartre: You got it! Ken is the looker with the published short story under his belt. Sal's got a crush on him, and Peggy is becoming his "pal". He can afford to be magnanimous!
Does anyone remember who Pete punched-out last season over that "lobster tail" remark, concerning Peggy's weight gain?
@Jack Carlson: LaurieB. and I were born in 1956, so we were in elementary school, too. What year were you and your wife born? I don't think anyone born after 1958 has any memories from this time period. Your Dad was activated during the Cuban Missle Crisis? Wow, that must have been so scary. I'd love to sit and talk with your Dad for, like, 3 days!
@lurker: that was really disgusting and unnecessary. I hope I never date you.
I am just a little surprised by Anna's reaction when Don/Dick told her that her husband had been killed in combat. She didn't press him for details or an explanation. If I had been Anna, I would have wanted to know much more.
RobinDee et al - I think you judge Joan's handling of the rapist criminal cardio-thoracic surgeon kind of out of context. You clearly cannot imagine what it was like before we had the shoulders of Gloria Steinem and the like to stand on. You just cannot understand what a non-person a woman could be, how invisible to the world outside the POV of a (white) man's needs. Hiw without rights and remedies, how without access to financial opportunity. You just cannot imagine!!! Aging took every pleasure away from her - and female sexuality was punished. Her options diminished and his rape would not have been seen as a crime - women were all seductresses and men had no responsibility (to this day guys who knock up teen girls, "of age" or not are not required to do anything, but the females have to either carry and raise the baby, or put the baby up for adoption or abort it - ) You just cannot imagine what it was like even when you watch this show every week. Watch Far From Heaven, too. But you still won't understand, I suppose.
I think that Pete needs to dump Trudy. She's a spoiled brat, and he's never going to be happy with her. He has already told her that he's not interested in adopting. Her reaction? To make an appointment with an adoption agency and tell others (such as Pete's secretary) about it so that he'll feel pressured to do what she wants. He tells her again that he doesn't want to adopt. Her reaction? To tell her father and get him to pressure Pete to do what she wants. I actually had some respect for Pete this week because he was willing to take a hit at work to stand up for himself on a personal matter.
That SOB. I feel so bad for Joan. Its obvious she could play with the big boys just like Peggy. Joan was so good at the T.V. job and she saw Peggy get her own office. That look on Joans face when Peggy walked in to the office feeling triumphant. It was heartbreaking.
While I am a huge fan of the show, my wife cannot stand to watch it. We were both in elementary school in those days, the early 60's. This show apparently brings back painful memories for her. I find it fascinating though. My father was in the Army, and activated during the Cuban missile crisis. I suspect that will become a topic on the show soon.
Thanks, bocaratonfan! BTW, wouldn't Michael Palin have been a great choice to play Charles Shaughnessy's character? He could've done it like an uppercrust Luigi Vercotti!
/montypython
Joan. Poor Joan! The end of the episode a few weeks back where she's rubbing her shoulder from the pain of her bra strap was very symbolic. She's hit up against the limits of the traditional female role and it hurts. I like Joan. I think her earlier bitchiness is, much like Betty's, a subconscious response to feeling hemmed in by a role. Roger can't save Joan; that would be putting her right back into some other confining role, which isn't what she wants, even if she isn't clear on what she wants yet. And Roger won't save Joan. He's too selfish to save Joan.
Roger is so deluded about himself. But was there societal awareness of "the mid-life crisis" in those days?
Alice is racist and classist, and it only took one line to show that. I knew women like her as a child (I'm a 70s kid, myself). Crusty old bats, but they could be really funny because, no, they didn't hold their tongues. I think the reference to the architect in Montana is that Bert has a ranch he never goes to with cows and everything, but probably keeps an architect on tenterhooks in remodeling it. He seems pretty raring to go for a man who's pretty old and probably sicker than he looks. I like Bert.
So if Don goes home, what is he going to tell Betty about himself? If I'm understanding correctly, her family background's pretty posh. Remember her father ranted about him "having no people." I can't help but think, seeing how that concept plays out in various story lines, that the idea of being aligned with the "right" people (in the family, at work, etc.) is a very important subtext of the series, what with Pete and his family, Joan probably about to marry the rapist, Peggy strengthening her ties to SC management, Duck's ability to call on old friends, etc.
I wouldn't put it past Betty to throw Don's origins in his face in her anger and confusion over her own life, as well as her hurt over Don's transgressions. She seems to do the damage first, and only later realize the consequences.
Have to give a "big up" to Peggy! She's imperfect as hell but learns from those mistakes. She's worked hard at climbing the ladder and made so many strides. Plus, she's rockin' a cute new 'do!
Great episode. The scene with the hot rod seems out of sequence but I believe it is in the shows "present". Don is evaluating what is important to him and is looking for a change. Also this is a homage to the pre beach boy hot rodding culture of southern California. Last week's Dylan reference was a similar shout-out to the surrounding cultural changes. Don is deciding if being a button down ad man is what he really wants.
Auburn Annie: FLW had several commissions around the country and something in the western desert. I grew up across the street from one of his estates - I think my favorite FLW experiences is actually the room they transplanted into the Metropolitan Museum in NY - the room feels like a hug but airy at the same time and organic - and why not Buffalo NY! They had some money once and were the first city in the world to be electrified thanks to Niagara Falls.
First of all, Betty is strong in her own right! However, I don't know about the season finale. I think she is pregnant! It is true, that she encouraged her "friend" but only to see if she would actually go through with it. Now she has a better understanding how it was so easy for Don. Human weakness is MAD! But is it forgivable? Liveable?HMMM.... As for Joan, who needs to put on a strong front, is devasted! Mr. Ideal is an insecure FREAK! And has to go! This is the only program I watch and truly enjoy. Please don't make all the admirable qualities in each character do a 180* I don't want to see Joan an abused housewife. UGH!
I really love this series.
And yes the last episodes were very slow. But last night was great.
Betty : I really don't like her character, is she Mommy Dearest? She is being very annoying.
I know because of the time and everything she will return with Don but this could change showing hoe a divorce woman had to act in those times. But this thing she does to her daughter is awful.
Joan : I know that she won't back off the marriage with the doctor, because it's more important what everybody is going to say. But Roger will be the only one to save her. But he doesn't deserve her, because he left his wife for this new girl...please.... after all the time Joan gave him.
Don : I don't like this nowhere ride that he took. The best of this series is how he confronts everything and how smart he is.
Peggy : I like this crush that Pete and admiration he is feeling for her. But I will like another strong man by Peggy. Loved that idea that this gay friend showed how to present herself. They should use that more in the next season. And please writers don''t Peggy get involved with the priest.
Will wait for next week, can't wait.
Lucky Strike - I don't know if Alice is racist - the whole society was racist (and sexist and homophobic and bigoted against all manner of groups) - but her remark wasn't racist - they were too concerned about privacy to worry about race in that moment.
So I know that Don was doing "flashback" but how long ago was it? It is summer than all of a sudden, it is Christmas?? Then he said she has to give him a divorce??? I thought for sure that he was going to sleep with this "Anna". Maybe I missed that, did he?? What is going to happen if he ever returns home to real life?
I agree,"daligalaxy" that Mr Ideal sure acted like a control freak. He wants it when HE wants it.
I thought that Anna Draper looked younger in the "today" sequence than she did in the "yesterday" sequence. She is such a lovable, forgiving woman. What a parallel when Anna gave Don/Dick a bag with new clothes. I thought about Jane with the Menkens" bag.
Doesn"t is warm your heart to see the little
Valentine heart that Sally made for Don??
I hope the 3rd season gives little Bobby a break. He has had to amuse himself through both seasons and this leads to trouble.
The guy from popsicle says the mother reminds him of someone -- it's Jesus. Notice how the big yellow circle in the logo becomes the mother's halo? After all, Sal's the art director. I thought the art seemed a bit dated, and/or too finished for a comp. Nevertheless, I enjoy watching Peg emulate Don. Total confidence, believing in everything she's saying. She seems to be getting it together on the outside, at least.
To the people saying that Betty is "out of control" and "abusing" her kids - evidently you've never REALLY been abused. I have. My father back handed me multiple times across the face until my nose bled. He pinned me to the floor and held his thumb across my throat so that I couldn't breathe until I stopped fighting him - then he slapped me some more.
THAT'S abuse.
And whoever thinks Betty had a miscarriage must never have had one either - I have. The blood is unbelievable. There is no way you can have a miscarriage and not be aware of it until someone says "Oh, you're bleeding."
Please, people, let's be realistic here.
And the Mom on the popsicle poster symbolizing Christ? ROFLMAO
I have seen the future. Newly "reborn" Don comes back to NY. Starts a new ad agency with Peggy as head talent, and competes directly with Duck and what is left of Sterling Cooper. Don's new firm could start with the Clearasil account and also the Popsicle account. Don vs. Duck....Peggy vs. Pete would make for some compelling TV. Only questions though....where would Joan end up (I think with Don's outfit) and what would happen to Roger (special adviser / board member of Don's new firm)?
I have seen the future. Newly "reborn" Don comes back to NY. Starts a new ad agency with Peggy as head talent, and competes directly with Duck and what is left of Sterling Cooper. Don's new firm could start with the Clearasil account and also the Popsicle account. Don vs. Duck....Peggy vs. Pete would make for some compelling TV. Only questions though....where would Joan end up (I think with Don's outfit) and what would happen to Roger (special adviser / board member of Don's new firm)?
Ken! Forgot Ken. We like Ken (heh-heh, Ken. I get it).
He's not as threatened by Peggy's promotion, unlike Harry and Paul, because hey, he's a published short story author. He's got enough confidence in himself as a person that he doesn't need the ego boost that having his own office would bring, unlike Poser Paul and Whiny Harry. Those who don't ask, don't get, boys!
Ken's "asked" by submitting his story to the Atlantic and he's "gotten" by having it published.
To the people saying that Betty is "out of control" and "abusing" her kids - evidently you've never REALLY been abused. I have. My father back handed me multiple times across the face until my nose bled. He pinned me to the floor and held his thumb across my throat so that I couldn't breathe until I stopped fighting him - then he slapped me some more.
THAT'S abuse.
And whoever thinks Betty had a miscarriage must never have had one either - I have. The blood is unbelievable. There is no way you can have a miscarriage and not be aware of it until someone says "Oh, you're bleeding."
Please, people, let's be realistic here.
And the Mom on the popsicle poster symbolizing Christ? ROFLMAO
I think the '34 sedan symbolised his regression. I think Joan will become a feminist. Matt Weiner said in the Charlie Rose interview that alot of the show was based on the feminine mystique which came out 1963.
I missed the "joke" of what Cooper's sister said to Roger about his children after the board meeting was over. He said he only has one (his daughter)What did her comment mean? Was it a sarcastic remark about the number of women he beds, which may lead to the procreation of many children? HELP!
Yes, I think Dr. Creepy's raping her his way of marking her as his territory at Sterling/Cooper. My prediction is that Roger will drop Jane--because remember, he didn't pick up with her until Joan got engaged--and get back with Joan, who he really belongs with. And I think Alice was not referring to Jane as one of his children, but of his future family that he will have with Jane. I don't think Roger had thought about that yet, and that prospect will scare him off. Plus, what does she have that Joan doesn't have?
Do we think Don will come back to Betty and come clean with her about Dick Whitman? My plot line wish: He will come back to find out that Sterling Cooper was bought out, cash out his half a mil, and not wanting to report to Duck (or get fired by Duck), will start his own ad agency. He could open with the Clearasil account and hopefully will take Peggy with him!
OH!!! Maybe the pill has been responsible for Joan's weight gain! The dose used to be HUGE. Let's hope she was taking it! I agree, it would be AWFUL if she had to marry that bastard.
I agree with those that think we are going to get Don back with Betty [have held that view as Don was sent out from the beginning :)) ] WITH Betty becoming more and more manipulative as she finds/senses her power... power becomes cruelty in stages, typically, mainly because the ego is less constrained, held in check... Don is coming home to a hornets nest!
Can someone explain what did Cooper's sister mean to Roger about his children after the board neeting was over with? I don't understand, he only has a daughter. Was it a sarcastic jab at him meaning the number of women he beds eventually leads to procreation of many children??
Also, while Joan was being raped she was staring at a piece of art on Don's coffee table. What was it she was staring at?
Alice: You have your children to think of -
Roger: I just have the one...
Alice: Really.
children meaning the one(s) Joan will/might want to have AND Joan being a child... to a women of Alice's age Joan, at 20, is a virtual child or a 'kid' hooking in with the grown-ups... a dig at Roger for taking up with someone young enough to be his daughter, literally!
Ken also seems to have his own office already... and he's come to respect Peggy as 'the real deal'... the truth is that Peggy is the next gen star of the agency... something that Harry and Paul and Pete haven't realized yet... I agree that Ken seems more confident about what he can do than the others... Pete is beginning to realize that Pegs is moving up fast as well and respects her, so far, for it... will be interesting to see if and when Pete begins to see Peggy as a RIVAL and a lover... now there's some serioius conflict as attraction chaos for you...
Well I was greatly amazed that somebody as capable and sassy and liberated as Joan would allow her fiance to violate her like that. I mean this is a woman who makes her own choices about who she chooses to be with and how and when. I was very stunned that she simply endured that without slapping him or putting up more of a fight. But I can see how Joan would feel that she has to accept that behavior because of who and what she thinks she is in her mind: the woman who is destined to be the mistress wanted for her body but nothing else. I sincerely hope that Joan stands up for herself like she does everyone else, and puts this monster in his place by not marrying him and exposing him.
... so much for Roger's comment in Ep.11 that Alice would do what ever Bert does... looks like the reverse right now anyway... though I think Yoda will turn back to the light, find his center and cast off the evil darkness of Duck the Sith!
Can someone help me understand something here? What was with the phone call that Betty had with her friend about the stable boy? I didn't understand it when she agreed to meet the boy then didn't show up for lunch. What is going on there? Why did she arrange to meet him but instead appears to have set him up with her friend? And why did she set him up with her friend. She seemed to be aware that her friend and the stable kid got together than appeared to rub salt in the wounds by reminding her of him upcoming wedding date? What is the story there? Also, what is the story with Betty and the little boy who ran away? Is she just really disturbed?
In the 60s parents pulled kids hair... kids pulled other kids hair at school and playing sports, when things got testy... it was "a thing" and it happened 'fairly often... it was done 'in place' of striking, punching... it was seen as sissy fighting or 'fighting like a girl'... as off putting as those descriptors are today, that's the way it WAS and how it was seen/labelled... was not AT ALL unusual to be in a park or at a pool, at the beach or just playing in the street fooling around and seeing that happen... at least in the suburbs... :)))
Can someone clarify a few things about Betty for me? What was the deal with her phone call to her friend about the stable kid getting married? I didn't understand the episode when Betty agreed to meet him and then appeared to set him up with her friend instead. What is going on there? Also, what is going on with Betty and the little boy that ran away from home? I find her to be the most confusing character of all. I just can't get a read on her. Can anyone enlighten me?
Pete's an asshole! No sympathy for that pissant! I felt bad for his father-in-law having to hear that Pete used to love Trudy! Now that's some serious shit! I was hoping Daddy Vogel would arrive at SC, just to unleash a special brand of "whoop-ass" on that punk-bitch Pete!
Poor Joan. Doctor Charming turns out to be a sicko sadist. He'll probably start slapping her around next.
But she goes along with the charade, can't call off the wedding, because she can't give up the fairy tale. So she turns a blind eye to the obvious signs, just like all the other wives in this series. Just like all women did back then.
I am continually fascinated by how the show runners consistantly use the charactors to show how much has changed in our society in a brief 40 years.
I'm glad someone else noticed the chair that Don was fixing for Mrs. Draper (remember the chair that Don didn't fix for Betty for the dinner party, and she broke it into bits)? As for the rape. The young doctor was obviously jealous when Roger commented to Joan that she said she didn't like French food. He's an evil and mean man who degraded her in Don's office because he was punishing her. I record Mad Men so I can watch it over and over again until I am able to notice all the subtleties and all the little messages that always seem to permeate the episodes. I love this show so much. I don't recall being half this excited lately about any show or movie. The writing is so excellent! I also love reading other viewers ideas about the episodes. What an interesting group!
I loved the use of Greig's "In the Hall of the Mountain King" on the piano as Don/Dick enters Anna's house. It was a beautiful and significant allusion to Ibsen's "Peer Gynt" for which Grieg wrote incidental music. Peer Gynt goes to the hall of the mountain king, gets the king's daughter pregnant by thinking about it, tries to run while being chased by the king who is a troll (that is the chase music the boy played), and when the troll king catches him, asks who he really is. The whole play is about self-identity, and Don/Dick was certainly "in the hall of the mountain king" in this episode!
I have never commented on this blog I have only read it every Monday morning while going thru MM withdrawls. I didn't have time to read all 400 comments, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but remember, when Bert Cooper offered Don the Partnership Don didn't want a contract. When Don comes back "Reborn/Renewed" he will find the changes during his absence. Maybe because he didn't put his position, salary and Partnership in writing not to mention he abandoned the company for a while the new arrangement will put him back at square one. Remember in the preview for next week Duck mentioned that Don would have to basically deal with it.
I think Betty is having a miscarriage and that is either going to unite Betty and Don again or make her feel abandoned even more during this loss and keep them apart. You never know the way these writers tell a story anything can happen.
Donald Whitman: When Anna tells Don "i understand if you dont want to talk about it" was she referring to something other than their divorce?
She's referring to his not mentioning Betty. Normally, you talk about the kids, you talk about the spouse. Also she assumes that's also the reason he's had time to get a tan while in California on "business."
==========
With a half million bucks in 1962, Don can set up his own agency. By the time Season Three rolls around, he's rolling, having already grabbed the talented and finance/accounting ones he wanted from SC and added more. IF Don wants to be an entrepreneur, putting his money at risk vs. being a Creative Director with a salary.
WOW the rape disturbed me. She will be covering shiners ups next. She can't let him go because it will mess up the whole facade she has created.
I think Don will come back home and Betty will be the one that will start being unfaithful to him.
Lets hope they sign some contracts soon, or the show is just a great memory.
57 Chevy asks, "OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?" And the answer is....yes! That's what rape looks like. When as man pushes you down and holds your FACE to the floor while he forces sex on you, yes, that's rape.
There was nothing loving or pleasurable or comforting about it. The act of rape was to put Joan in her place...to humiliate her in her workplace where she is the office manager. Afterward, the doctor acted as though nothing happened and Joan left the roses that he brought her on the desk. She was in walking-shock and not entirely focussed when she came out of Don's office after the rape.
It's interesting the way she tried to start a conversation with Peggy Olson about her getting married. Peggy just dismissed her pleasantly. I feel that she felt Peggy was her equal and that she could confide in her because she has no other female friends.
Ohhhhhh! There's gotta be a third season because I really need to see what happens!
57 Chevy asks, "OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?" And the answer is....yes! That's what rape looks like. When as man pushes you down and holds your FACE to the floor while he forces sex on you, yes, that's rape.
There was nothing loving or pleasurable or comforting about it. The act of rape was to put Joan in her place...to humiliate her in her workplace where she is the office manager. Afterward, the doctor acted as though nothing happened and Joan left the roses that he brought her on the desk. She was in walking-shock and not entirely focussed when she came out of Don's office after the rape.
It's interesting the way she tried to start a conversation with Peggy Olson about her getting married. Peggy just dismissed her pleasantly. I feel that she felt Peggy was her equal and that she could confide in her because she has no other female friends.
Ohhhhhh! There's gotta be a third season because I really need to see what happens!
Joan was stupid for bring Greg to the office.
What purpose did it serve?
Do women bring there BoyFriends to where their other Lovers are roaming around.
Men are not stupid we pick-up on that " oh you had her also feeling"
As for JerkGreg he was marking her in her territory ... doing what he felt everyone else had already done too.
What happened wasn't Joan's fault it was her stupidity. We guys Don't bring our girlFriend around all our ex's to show them off to one another.
Being grabbed by the ear was another big thing they did.
And don't forget the infamous ruler on the hands.
And indeed you did not backtalk a teacher or an adult neighbor: it was the same as how you'd address your parents...and if you infracted that rule, boyoboy would you get yours when you got home.
Jerseygirl - No one is saying it didn't happen, some of us are just saying that it's abuse where others aren't. It was abuse then and it's abuse now.
We all got spanked. You didn't mouth off to your parents, and god forbid we backtalk the teachers. But no one ever inflicted violence on us. I'm sorry for everyone who did have violence in their childhoods and hope you got help so you don't do it to your kids.
Kehoe, what do you mean if you've had one, you know..." Had one what? A relationship? Or do you mean a relationship with the person who was married to the person whose identity I stole? lol!
I find their relationship implausible mainly because of the way Don so cruelly treated his brother (who seemed to really love Don) for being a link to his past/someone who could blow his cover but is the best of friends with Anna. It is inconsistent. Anna might be the nicest person in the world, but blood is thicker than water, right? The whole Anna-Don thing seems pretty weak to me.
My first reaction after hearing that young boy work his way through "In the Hall of the Mountain King" was to disregard the reference to Ibsen's play as incidental. But the more I thought about it, the more I came to believe that there's more to this connection than meets the eye.
During one of the more famous moments in Ibsen's play, Peer digs around in the ground and finds an onion, which he peels apart, comparing each of the layers to a past adventure in his life. "What is an onion anyhow?," he asks. "Layer after layer. Where is the core, where is it--the onion's self? Damned if he's got any self. Right down to the center he's nothing but layers--smaller and smaller." Then, after tossing the onion aside he, Peer finally concedes that Nature "is a joke."
Don/Dick is definitely peeling back the layers of his own life and like Peer, searching for some sense of identity.
It's obvious some people did not see the first season, hence, some of the confusion.
Regarding copywriters, especially female copywriters, not having personal offices. Didn't you hear Sterling?"The rest of the guys didn't have the balls to ask me for one." Peggy DOES have balls and that's how she got it. I don't doubt there were one or two "pioneers" back then.
Can anyone see where the adoption thread is moving. Peter and his wife will end up adopting Peter/Peggy's son. Can't wait to see how this transpires.
Also, during the popsicle presentation. The one guy said "Don Draper has signed off on this." Now whether he did or did not, we don't know. And then the Popsicle executive said that the mother in the ad looked a little familiar and Peggy said, "No, it's original." Wondering if this ad "signed off on by Draper" has some small glitch that will get Peggy and Team in trouble ... Just a thought.
I find Anna very plausible, especially considering that Don/Dick bought her house and kept her financially comfy all these years. Why would she blow that off?
If Joan had REALLY started fighting the doctor off during the rape, it would've given what was happening to her more credence and ugliness. She wouldn't have been able to view it any other way then, except as a violation and rape. Submission allowed her to "go away" and inside herself to be in denial. Poor Joan. Every time I think of her in that scene I start to cry.
BETTY'S BLEEDING: Do you remember that Betty Draper's mother died recently of cancer and her father remarried? We don't know what kind of cancer her mother had but many cancers have an hereditary link. If Betty's bleeding is an early sign of cancer (it didn't seem as though it was her period she was experiencing and she didn't seem to complain of the cramping that accompanies the onset of a miscarriage.), then that could account for the sudden bleeding.
In the next episode she says "I can't do that." and I don't think it is in response to the suggestion that she have an abortion, which is not legal until the mid 1970's. I believe that the scene shows her wearing curlers, smoking and talking. I believe she has been to the doctor and the doctor wants to do a hysterectomy, which was a wholesale operation for ANY woman who was having irregular or heavy periods back them.
I love Anna Draper. What a beautiful woman inside and out. I do think they have had sex. Notice the scene where Don is on the couch and Anna has just returned from the Broadway Department store with new clothes for Don. The next scene shows her moving slowly to the kitchen (not just from the polio) with her hair messed up. I think she got the full Don Draper treatment.
As for the beach scene it reminded me of Anne Bancroft in the Slender Thread where she goes into the surf with her clothes on.
I am glad the Jet setters are gone.
I cant see Don working under Duck for very long. He has no contract and will quit.
Mad Men is like a jigsaw puzzle that the writers give us pieces of the story to build the full picture.
BETTY'S BLEEDING: Do you remember that Betty Draper's mother died recently of cancer and her father remarried? We don't know what kind of cancer her mother had but many cancers have an hereditary link. If Betty's bleeding is an early sign of cancer (it didn't seem as though it was her period she was experiencing and she didn't seem to complain of the cramping that accompanies the onset of a miscarriage.), then that could account for the sudden bleeding.
In the next episode she says "I can't do that." and I don't think it is in response to the suggestion that she have an abortion, which is not legal until the mid 1970's. I believe that the scene shows her wearing curlers, smoking and talking. I believe she has been to the doctor and the doctor wants to do a hysterectomy, which was a wholesale operation for ANY woman who was having irregular or heavy periods back them.
I went to Catholic school too, starting in the later 60s. I didn't see that much abuse from the nuns or the teachers. Maybe it was the school I attended. I had heard of horr
The Other Mrs. Draper!!?? Is she a southpaw, like Betty? Not a big deal that Dick/Don tells her more than Betty. He tells every woman more than Betty. Poor little Sally.
Well several folks Nailed the person Don was going to go Visit. The Real Mrs Draper and she a true friend to him. And he's a connection to her past, for her remembering her husband.
Was the beginning a flashback? This Mrs. Draper seems more lively than the woman at the beginning.
Yes, that Betty is an awful woman, isn't she?
Betty is "mommie dearest". What is up with pulling Sally by the ponytail? And why is she acting all high and mighty with the friend? She was the one that set her up with the guy from the stables and KNEW what was going to happen. She wanted it from the guy herself. No wonder Don runs around on her all the time!
There has to be a 3rd season. There is no way to tie up all these loose ends in another episode. I was sure last week that Don/Dick was going to drop off the face of the earth. Now I'm not so sure.
OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?
Yes, the beginning was right after she confronted him at the car dealer. She was nervous because she didn't know what had happened to her husband and why this man was using his name and id.
Don maintains his relationship with Anna, Betty tears her's ( friendship ) apart. And Greg is boiling over Roger and wants to have her (Joan) like Sterling has her.
Jesus, Joan...:(
I don't believe what I just saw.
Thank you midcenturymod, I finally realised that Don is still at the beach house.
Mike Hoxton, I think there was a press release that season three is on. YEAH!
Oh my God. Now even Greg the doctor is a horror show. Are there any good guys left on this program?
I just have to say, I love Coop's sister. She should be running the place.
Joan is so important to the show...do you think she will do a Marilyn? That is really what the poem is about and that is the next show's title.
Hubby says that he loves the new and improved peggy. He said it is like watching something evolve.
I need to jsut be quiet and watch this.
OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?
He did indeed. And she should drop him ASAP.
He's a piece of shit. Plain and simple.
Im so pissed right now! That soft ass doc just freakin raped Joan! What happened to the joan we know. If anyone can recall on one of the episodes when Joan was sitting on the bed and was rubbing her shoulder were her bra strap was. He was hitting on her then. Hes a damn abuser and she is going to accept this?
Yes Mike, as far as we know.
I miss Peggy's ponytail. I think I'm the only one who liked it.
A doctor that's a rapist. Gee, you don't see that everyday.
It's all making sense now.
Poor Joan. I hope she kills him.
Funny Don (Dick) Originated Identity Thief !!
No, they can't sell Sterling Cooper! And yes, here's a link that says they are going to do another season: http://digg.com/television/Fulfilling_My_Mad_Men_Fantasy_Yet_Another_Season
Wow, Harlem Hospital. I was actually one of those little Negro children born there.
I love what Cooper's sister said to Roger about his children. Hilarious!
Wow, Don was married to Dons wife? What's up Doc? He seems really messed up. When Joan wanted to take control in the bedroom he couldn't deal with it. Then he basicly raped Joan in Witman's office.I can't read all the posts from all the open threads . Apparently someone nailed the who Dick was calling. I was personally at a loss.Still watching the show. Comment later.P.S. When the show started with The Hall of the Mountain King, I was trying to remember the tune. Then did, Shoul have looked at the title first. Lol. Still not sure how that relates to the show yet. Someone explain.
Joan should dump the rapist doc and date Kinsey. Now that Sheila dumped him he's free.
So, is Don (Dick) still at the beach house?...Just a little confused guys...
So, is Don (Dick) still at the beach house?...Just a little confused guys...
Yes, Mad Men has been renewed.
Look here.
So, is Don (Dick) still at the beach house?...Just a little confused guys...
Pete: "How did you swing this (office)?"
Peggy: "I’m sleeping with Don. It’s really working out."
HAHAHA.
Oooooh! I think Pete has a real crush on Peggy.
This episode is flying by! Lots of new info. Hope those complaining about the pace are happier tonight.
Love Bert's sister, Alice She's a no-nonsense kinda woman. Speaks her mind. Roger's children-Margaret and Jane. Ha!
So, is Don (Dick) still at the beach house?...Just a little confused guys...
It's over? I swear, this is the fastest hour in television!
Did you all see that, that last scene where Don walked into the ocean?
It was almost like a "baptism" of sorts. That's my take on it.
Peggy's kicking Ass and Don Just got Baptised.
I was totally wrong about the couch in the beach house. It was Anna Draper's couch.
At least we know the mail works.
THAT WAS SO FAST! Great sign, I want more please.
Alice Cooper to Roger Sterling: "You have your children to think about."
Roger: "I only have the one...?"
ZING!!
At first glance at Don in the ocean, I thought "oh god, not "a Star Is Born" ending - but then with the song, I think it is more of a rebirth.
Very disturbed at Betty's treatment of Sally - but she did redeem herself.
I think she's pregnant and the "I can't do it" is a reference to an abortion.
I'm hoping Joan will back out of the situation - I think she'll end up telling Roger and something bad will happen to the doctor.
They won't sell SC. Coop will back out.
This was the Mad Men I love.
Peggy's sleeping With Don , worth mentioning again what a crack-Up. Ha, ha ...also,
Little Sally telling Mommy with " I'm tell Daddy " !!
I really think that Roger is going to end up Joan's savior in all this. I don't know why, but I do.
Nice to see that Don took care of the real Mrs. Draper. He needs to stay in contact with her more - she seems to be his rock. He built his life on fantasy; he seems more comfortable with people who know who he really is.
The entire Joan story is killing me.
I am sad to see her lose her strength and self. It has been a slow decline and I want her to prevail!
When Don met the mechanics- was that a flash back?? Why did he say he was looking for a job and introduced himself as Dick? I went back and forth between thinking it was a flash back and present day. Thoughts?
Good for Peggy! I think her story line is the negative image of Joan's. They are parallel because Peggy is going for her career, not focusing on family or marriage and she seems lonely.
Like Pete.
Like Betty.
Like Joan.
They're all sad! Like Peggy said before, "It's hard for everyone."
Excellent episode.
MadMenSuze, I agree - it's Don's baptism, or his resurrection as Anna told him the cards said.
I love the first Mrs. Draper and I'm so glad she and Don/Dick are friends. This is the first episode where the man acted like a decent normal human being. I want more of the relaxed Don.
Peggy - you go, girl! Loved Alice Cooper's remarks to her brother and to esp. to Roger about his children. Haha.
Betty must be pregnant - how they will get hold of Don? I can't believe the merger will go through - I think the Brits will back out and then Duck will be history.
Congrats to the posters who nailed that Don would be visiting the blonde lady from the car dealership.
What an episode!
I agree with you MadMenSuze regarding Don being newly bapitzed in the ocean. Maybe he will rid himself of his sins and begin again with a fresh start. De javu?
Kinsey is a pretentious fool. I can't believe Joan ever dated him. She can do better.
"Duck, Crab." "Crab,Duck."
Pete's blue pajamas , I think this one is better!
Pete: "How did you swing this (office)?"
Peggy: "I’m sleeping with Don. It’s really working out."
HAHAHA.
I am still laughing too!
I really liked this episode, it's restored my faith in the show. The last 3 episodes prior to this one have been lacking.
I think the *real* Mrs. Draper is the sanest woman yet to grace the show, though the scene in which the recently-assaulted Joan answeres Peggy's wedding querry, followed by Betsy guilt-gifting Sally renewed my empathy for both characters. That Betty enjoyed hearing her stable-mate's friends anguish, I do think she thought she whole thing innocent, just like giving the boy a lock of her hair. The featherlight world of a beautiful woman.
I LOVED when Joan told the men, "he's fine, he said get back to work" when asked if she'd heard from Draper. The delivery was perfectly deadpan Joan.
Ya'll,. I don't get why Roger told Burt's sister, when she reminded him he had "children to think of" (regarding his windfall), "No, I only have just the one..." Huh? I thought he had a son and a daughter, or did his daughter disown him due to the impending divorce?
Great show! The ending reminded me of "Death Takes a Holiday" mixed with "A Star is Born".
Let's hope those breakers didn't break our boy!
My head is spinning. When all these story lines get to the cliff they are gonna make me jump off! I hope Don/Dick is not thinking he's gonna end it all in the Peaceful Pacific.
ClubO: Yeah, maybe he will.
P.S.
I loved that the kid as playing from the Peer Gynt Suite on the piano - and that they had The Day The Earth Still on the television. Those writers are sly ones.
Joan, get rid of that idiot twerpy doctor. I don't care if he is going to make a million a month as a chest surgeon - he has no consideration or respect for you and your feelings. Give him the high heel right in the keister.
What does you can trust Cleveland mean? Does it mean "Don't worry, my house Negro won't poison you?" Apparently Cooper knows his racist sister well.
Do you really think Peggy is sleeping with Don? I don't think so. I think she said it sarcastically. She was being "one of the boys", so to speak.
Don/dick has been baptized in the water , but from what specifically? Lord knows he's got enough sins to atone for. I never caught Mrs. Draper before, only in the recap at the begining of the show tonight. She's says at one point now there will be two Mrs. Drapers. I have had three Mrs. Draper's as my mom's. What a joke.
Loved Peggy saying, "I'm sleeping with Don." Ha Ha Ha!
And yes, very hard to watch Joan being raped!
Yes, I agee with what someone else said. Roger will end up saving Joan somehow.
entering the ocean, possibly signifying rebirth? flashbacks explained a lot, he's still in california with the girl right?
I don't think Alice Cooper is racist. I think Bert just meant that she could talk in front of him and he would be discreet.
Don isn't committing suicide. He's going home. New, refreshed and absolved of himself.
ldraper :"Don" was married to Mrs. Draper in San Pedro. Dick Whitman needed to get a divorce. Or legally on paper he would be known as a bigamist. Remember he was using "Don's" social security, etc. to get a driver's licence. That's how the real Mrs.Draper, Anna, found Dick at the car dealership.
When Don's hair is shorter, those are the flashbacks.
Ad wasn't Betty mean to poor little Sally? Geez! Betty smokes! Of course, litte Sally would want to imitate her mother! That's a natural thing for a little girl to do!
And Betty throwing her in a closet!
And then, Betty being mean to her friend on the phone, when Betty, herself, set the whole thing up?!?!
Don will be back at the near end of the next episode, I can feel it.
He felt he made a mess of his Draper life and went to Anna for answers. She gave them to him, and he's ready to start again, knowing he isn't alone.
It makes me feel good to know he did right by the first Mrs. Draper, and she's been good to him.
I feel so bad for Joan. Her fiancee thinks she's "been around" (she has) but that turned her into trash for him. I feel Roger will have a hand in saving her, but when?
Haha! Yes, I loved Peggy's line too, about sleeping with Don. Classic.
And how about Dick fixing that chair for the real Mrs. Draper?
Remember the Betty chair, and how Don wouldn't fix it? Guess nagging really doesn't work after all...just have your husband blown up accidentally and have his buddy take on his identity. House in CA + chair fixed= nirvana ;O)
Peg4Prez, Roger has one daughter, Margaret. I think Coop's sister was being sly when she made her "children to think of" comment, alluding to Roger's 20-year-old fiancee, Jane.
zabadu - I don't think Alice Cooper is racist. I think Bert just meant that she could talk in front of him and he would be discreet.
Exactly.
Does anyone know the name of the song and the artist for the music that was playing when Don went into the ocean at the end?
And why was Betty bleeding? Is she having a miscarriage? I mean, women usually know when "that time of the month" is coming, so we don't have accidents like that.
So, is she pregnant and doesn't realize it? Because she is waaaaay to young to be going through menopause (which causes irregular bleeding).
Thoughts?
Of course theres going to be a third season......seems like everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty" I love her new attitude and persona....the whole first season was all about her being a child but this second season is all about her growing up symbolized by her period coming on this is her grow up season.....the third season will be an adult betty. Does anybody agree with my logic?
Of course theres going to be a third season......seems like everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty" I love her new attitude and persona....the whole first season was all about her being a child but this second season is all about her growing up symbolized by her period coming on this is her grow up season.....the third season will be an adult betty. Does anyone agree with my logic?
It was wonderful to finally see Don be transparent and real.
Even with his looks, success, beautiful wife and family, fabulous career....even Don is "scratching to get into his own life". Quiet desparation, huh?
Anybody relate? ;O)
For some reason, I thought this was the finale, but next week will be, right?
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The end - Don walking into the ocean.... perhaps an allusion to the end of Kate Chopin's "The Awakening?" The protagonist frees herself from the constraints of a restrictive society and ultimately, after discovering her true self, commits suicide (is reborn) by shedding her clothes and walking into the ocean.
We're wondering if anyone can identify the song when dick/don was walking into the ocean. Can't believe that jerk raped Joan. Hope she finds herself and teaches him a thing or two. Betty can't be pregnant - poor little Sally realized her mom was bleeding. That little girl went through a lot this episode. Like the reference to Betty being Mommy Dearest. She's a witch.
I have never commented in this community, but have watched the show since its first season. But after tonight's episode, I felt the need to post on this board. I was greatly disturbed by the assault on Joan by her fiancee. When she glanced over to the couch, during the ordeal my heart fell to the pit of my stomach. Instantly, I flashed back to her weeping on the couch, after learning of Marilyn Monroe's death. If Joan's commits suicide, words will not be able to explain how sadden I will be to see this character leave the show.
Joan, in my opinion, with the exception of Don/Peggy who actually have any integrity in that office. I do realize that all these characters have had affairs with various characters on the show, but have still maintained some dignity in the process. Don did cause me to loose some respect for him by sleeping with Bobbie. However, this was made up by his treatment of Mrs. Draper. These characters for me remind us that people are human and will make mistakes, but the key is learning from them and moving forward. Don has come upon a crossroads, and this also holds true for Peggy/Joan. I just hope the writer's allow us to continue to see all these characters grow through all their ups and downs.
Sorry for the really long post. I just think it would be an injustice for all the many viewer's and Christina Hendricks to be written off this show. I don't want to see Joan become some tragic individual after this ordeal.
Can't wait to see Jon Hamm on SNL next week! Then the season finale next Sunday. Then I don't know what I'll do with myself.
Peg4Prez No it was Duck that had the girl & boy. Roger had the one daughter who was interested in dressing in the latest outfits & that any thing "Dad" said was boring & old fashioned.
Did I hear Sally say to Betty "Mommy, you're bleeding?" I am wondering what's happening -- is it possible she's very early into a pregnancy and maybe miscarrying?
I heard Betty reply, "Let me go and change." Hmmm...
Lucky Strike; I think in so many words thats what Bert was saying. His sister is so damn straightfoward, other than her little racist movement she seems like she would have the office in better care.
The song at the end was George Jones. The song is "Cup of Loneliness".
Burt is not liking the merge, why did they do that anyway, because of Roger? Or was it the Duck deal?
I sure hope Jaon leaves that creep! I'm feeling she really wants to talk to someone. Oh Don starting over, I don't understand if the hot rod scene was now or the past either? He sure is relaxed and a different person around Anne. And to answer someones question, Anne is not his wife, remember he is Dick, she was married to Don. I really can't stand Betty anymore! Bitch!
Everyone keeps commenting that Joan might commit suicide. Geez! She better not! I love Joan!
Everything has been commented on except for the "New Betty". I love her new attitude. The first season was all about Betty being a child in an adult body. I think this second season is about her growing up. This growing up can be symbolized by her period coming on in this episode. I think the third season we will see an adult Betty. Does anyone agree with my logic?
jeri18 thanks for the clarification. Sometimes it's just so late at night for me that I miss little things. Thanks. What's the deal about Anna. Drapers legs? Polio?
Laura Petrie, I too thought the bleeding incident was strange. Miscarriage? You're right, Betty's wwaay too young to be menopausal.
What'd ya'll think of the title? Has Don scaled half the mountain and is now looking down the other side? And still retaining his title, I guess?
Pete's Blue...thanks! I got Duck's kids mixed up with Roger's.
Strange coincidence/random thought= Alice Cooper sang that song, "Only Women Bleed"....Nah! ;O)
Yes, I'm confused about the hot rod scene with Don too? Past or present? It didn't make much sense.
Don seems like he is becoming rejuevanted and trying to see where he should go from here on. He needs to recollect some things and put the peices together to see where they all fit.
chopin47-That WAS cool with the kid tinkling the song on the piano.
So the Dr. had been fuming about Joan's sex life before him and when they were in the office, he just exploded. Dump him, Joan! I hope Laura Petrie is right and Roger steps up. But he asked Jane to marry him so.... He really didn't treat Joan much better except he didn't attack her. It seemed clear that he was never going to marry her. She was just sex to him.
giveprops , I agree 100% with you about Betty.
"I'm sleeping with Don. It's really working out."
Still laughing!!!!!!!
I just rewatched the preview for next week, and I retract my comment about "I can't do it". I think Betty is having bleeding from a pregnancy and it's the pregnancy she is thinking she "can't do".
I don't think Betty has "grown up" in this season, if anything she's regressed. I think she's finally coming to terms with her flawed marriage. I'm wondering if she will let Don have another chance. Next season we may be watching her look for a new man...
Well...this was quite interesting....love Peggy's line to Pete "....I've been sleeping with Don and apparently it's working". Love that she just spoke right up for herself and got what she wanted and deserved.
..this thing about Dick/Don...well his past caught up with him before he ever got to Sterling Cooper....this woman is the real Draper's wife and because he assumed Draper's identity he was then married to her prior to becoming married to Betty....love the way that she appears to be the only person he has had a real relationship with ...give and take and he smiles like he almost never did with Betty...who I think is really loosing it...the stress of this separation is really causing her to abuse the kids...pulling Sally to the closet by the hair and then locking her in and as a supposed antedote to that buying her the riding boots...an act typical of chronic physical abusers....I don't know about that girl betty...
Just loved Bert Cooper's younger sister ..whichever poster said she should be running the place hit the nail on the head....
...Is Pete loosisng his frickin' mind...that boy is emotionlly unbalanced and immature...thowing expensive food off the balcony...
...like i said earlier...Don has gone West to recreate himself and find some inner peace....he may yet reconcile with Betty but I bet they move to the west coast....and that their relationship becomes re-built on a basis that has more truth and equity in it....
giveprops: I've thought the same thing about Betty. She's growing up and becoming more jaded. Meanwhile, one would guess by the final scene that Don is "coming clean". If and when he goes back East, it's going to be a really odd dynamic between the two of them - they are both very different people than when they were last together.
And the scene with Joan in Draper's office was horrific and sad. She's losing her identity with that guy.
Pete is such an emotional 13year old.
Burt's sister during lunch was just cautious about speaking in front of Cleveland.
Anna really cares for Dick Whitman, she wants nothing from him and everything for Him, a true friend.
As i mentioned he is a link to her past, an attachment to her Real Don Draper. Dick seeing Anna will be good for him.
Peggy is Not sleeping w/ Don , she was just speaking to Pete as an Equal.
Joan respects Peggy for the strides she's made in the office.
And it is a bit weird that no one (except Pete) thinks it odd that Don has disappeared!
Roger always treated Joan well. Joan always said it was "temporary", that she'd meet someone and move on. After his heart attack, Roger said he never regretted his affair with Joan - she wasn't just another piece of ass to him.
Regardless, if he finds out about this, he will cause great hell to that doctor...
Anna is great. The actress reminds me of a young Joanne Woodward - beautiful, down-to-earth, straightforward. As so many of you have posted, it was wonderful to see Don so relaxed.
I predict Joan will find it within herself to stand up to the monstrous fiance. Perhaps Roger has friends who will fit this weenie with a pair of cement boots and take him on a tour of the East River.
Poor Joan.
The REAL Mrs. Draper, Anna, kicked ass!
Alice Cooper (love that name!) is the "ish!" Cracked my shit up that she refused to take off her shoes in YodaBert's office!
Peggy with the new 'do and big office! Fantastic!
Don on the beach...WET! Priceless!
This episode was SUCH a step up from the last one. I loved it. My favourite part was the flash back between Don and Anna where he tells her about Betty! *SQUEES* That was just.....so adorable and beautiful. You could tell he was so happy. And Betty was happy as well, according to him. It's his life style in the ad and his greed for power that ruined both of them.
And folks, Betty is the way every mom was in that time. The ONLY reason you all think she's a terrible mother is because she's the only woman we see in that setting. We haven't seen Mona, or Francine, or SaraBeth taking care of their children. So you only base Betty's actions to the type of parenting in this age--which is far different from what went on in the 60s.
Anyways, I loved her as usual. I loved how they showed that she was independent and taking care of everything. Her treatment of Sally after she caught her smoking was a lot less than what my parents would have done to me. It was so sad how her anger diffused into sadness at Sally's accusation that it was her fault Don left. We the audience knows he left because he was escaping the fact that he "ruined everything." But it must be so depressing for Betty to be blamed for what happened. What else would ANY woman in her situation do? I also loved that the writers brought us back to early in the season when Betty refused Sally to ride. Children don't stop dreaming about riding ponies just because their parents tell them too. Kudos to the writers on that one.
The SaraBeth call was strange for me. I mean, at first I thought it was malicious, but then Betty seemed genuinely confused about SaraBeth's confession. I don't think she knew that SB actually slept with Aurthur. I'm still unsure if she wanted to just laugh about the SB "crush" on Aurthur or if she intended to figure out what really happened... And I had to laugh at all the anti-Betty remarks, cause I so knew they were coming. I was upset with Betty for being so harsh on SaraBeth, but she didn't encourage anything. She told SB that she "shouldn't talk to him so much." She did set up her and Aurthur, but it was THEIR decision to do anything about it. But anyways, to each their own.
I am SO UPSET that I was right about the doctor being abusive to Joan. =( i was really hoping I was wrong about that. The scene in Don's office was so disturbing....I loved that they incorporated the train sound theme into Joan's tuning it out. Well done!
Peggy, darling, I love you! I love you for your wit, your brilliance, your strength, and your chemistry with everyone on the team! I know i'm like...the ONLY person out there, but I really love the Peggy/Ken interaction the most. They seem like best friend material. Her and Pete's scene was so charged with energy. Speaking of which, I'm so mad at him right now. Last episode, I actually liked him more than Dan because I thought it was sweet that he would consider adoption to make his wife happy despite his mother's cruelty. But this episode...he acts as though they never even discussed it. And I hate how he lost it like that. He needs some major lessons from Don and Peggy on how to keep your emotions in check.
And did I mention how I loved, adored, and cherished the christmas scene between younger Don and Anna? Especially in regards to Betty? Oh, I am so so so happy right now. I am so glad that they didn't get together because she got pregnant or something. It was genuine young love. I feel like giggling like a fangirl. lol Still, Betty's gonna kick some major ass next episode. You could tell from the promo picture. CANNOT WAIT!!
I want Don and Bets to get back together though....sigh.
And Peggy/Joan friendship, anyone?
This Boyfriend of Joan is a Dink, Dork and jerk.
What man challenges a women whom is climbing on top of Him in Bed " What are you doing ? " !!
He had her in the office to mark his territory.
I just caught two things.
Anna said that Don was lavendar about Betty...she seemed like this was good, but all I could think about is Choward's Violet Mints.
Pete said he use to love Trudy and daddy-o picked up on the freudian slip. I really think he has a real crush on Peggy, one with respect. With his father gone and mom not mattering, Pete might have more freedom to run his own life now.
Hi. New to this forum, but not the show! Yay to Season 3!
Talk about throwing a roast chicken over the terrace; Pete's chicken's going to go over when Roger finds out about how and why he messed up that Clearasil account! But I think the way it goes on this show is that the biggest mistakes/meltdowns lead to the deepest levels of redemption. Maybe all isn't lost for him.
Somehow, I don't think Don will care so much. Can Don even maintain a career that relies on skewing perceptions of human needs to sell junk once he goes back? Don would be better off with Mrs Draper, I think.
SO proud of Peggy. How much could we get in this world if we'd only ask, right? She has exactly the right attitude when the boys get pissed off. And notice, those three and Pete are separated more and more. Even so, yes, our Peg is still lonely.
It's hard to remember sometimes that everything is what it is and not the perfect way we'd like it to be. We all have to deal with what is. Poor Joan. Each week her ideas of how the the world should be are crumbling a little bit more. And Betty. I think she's lashing out at her kids and stirring up trouble because she's frustrated and lost. But she's right. Her friend didn't have to sleep with that guy.
The writing is so multi-layered, I love it. And I liked last week's episode as well. It was an allusion to the way many people questioned themselves and their lives just a few years later.
HaHa Dick/Don meets his "White Lighter, Leo(Charmed)" as he thinks about a "new" life going back to just simply selling cars.
Wow, wow, wow!! This show just gets better and better. Especially tonights episode! It was an onslaught of new information on all the characters.
Good for Peggy. I loved her retort about how she got the bigger office by sleeping with Don....you go girl! Show em you know how to play hardball!
And as for Joan....I hope that fiancee of hers gets hit by a bus.
Is anyone else frustrated by the fact that you start a post and by the time it gets online many people have already just said what you came up with , thinking it's original thought. I hate the fact that all my posts get shoved to the bottom and I look like I'm repeating everyone else's thoughts.
Damaged Woman: Please do not say Betty's treatment of Sally is like anyone would do in the 60s. I was a child then and NO ONE grabbed their kids by the hair or locked them in closets.
Pete has it bad for peggy. Just started watching about 6 episodes ago and assume that peggy's baby was Dons. Am I right? Back to Pete - I can't believe he threw the dinner out the window. He reminds me of a guy with "little guy syndrome" - just temper and false ego.
Loved how Anna told Don to "Stop lying. You've been caught. Don't make me do something I don't want to do." That's exactly how Betty feels about calling him on his affair. She just didn't have the strength to push him to the admission. He's never admitted it. She needs to hear him admit the affair for her own closure to the past so she can cleanse the past and move on, with or without him.
Regarding the Sara Beth thing, Betty's absolutely right. She didn't force Sara Beth to cheat. She did push them together as a test because she had lost faith in humanity. She wanted to see if everyone in her world had such a lack of integrity. First the redheaded divorcee on the block's husband, then Carlton, then Don. Would Sara Beth, who admitted her husband was a good guy, cheat also? If so, maybe it would give her some insight into why Don cheated.
What do you think of the previews to next week? The person looking at the manequins looks pregnant. That person looks like Betty.
I thought for sure Betty was phoning Bobbie Barrett.
I also had trouble identifing the flashbacks and present. The hot rods... was that a flashback?
I really missed the ad work during this season. I enjoy watching Don work and Pete scamper to keep up with Don.
Julianne: Peggy's baby was Pete's.
Pete wants Peggy, bad...but would never marry a "low rent" girl like her. Must be from a "good family".
Julianne: Peggy's baby was Pete's.
Pete wants Peggy, bad...but would never marry a "low rent" girl like her. Must be from a "good family".
Hey folks!! Have been reading your posts for the last few weeks. What a savvy group you are! Decided to post myself tonight becasue this episode has my head spinning!!
I think Betty hearing exactly what Sally thinks of her parents situation PLUS her friend from the stable pulling no punches has FINALLY opened Betty's eyes. 'Bout time!
I wonder if Alice Cooper might not be a lesbian! Did you catch the conversation with her brother about her *companion*?
Did you hear Don/Dick telling those guys working on the hot rods that he was looking for a job? What's up with that?
I think Don would have voted *Nay* for the selling of SterlingCooper!
Hey!! Good thought of Betty being pregnant/miscarrying! I know we just saw them bumbing and grinding at her family home, all this California air must have made me forget!
Joan . . . . .sigh . . . .I feel so badly!
Why wouldn't it just be Betty getting her period? Seems the simplest explanation. Not everyone's cycle is exactly regular and wouldn't seem routine to wear a bulky pad until it came. You had to wear a belt thingy with them back then. Wouldn't look so good with Betty's tight slacks. She would probably stick with dresses during. Of course, I'm remembering that from the 70's. That contraption was probably even worse in the 60's! She seemed matter-of-fact about it-if it was a miscarriage she would have freaked out-even with Sally there.
This was an AWESOME episode:
Didn't Betty have a baby bump?
Betty was jealous of her friend sleeping her little crush. She was making her feel bad because she was jealous.
Dr. Pig raped Joan because he was jealous of the comment Sterling made about her.
Some thoughts.
Alice Cooper is a lesbian. She mentioned her female companion and Burt seemed to know her.
I took her talking to Roger about his "children" to mean that dollars to doughnuts he'd be having more children with Jane.
And...how could Dick/Don live with a woman he isn't sleeping with? Does anyone think he was sleeping with Anna? Just a thought.
Joan was looking at somethng while being raped....not so much the couch as what was on the table. Maybe a weapon if she could have reached it?
Giveprops: I agree with you. she totally is getting a spine which is good! Hopefully she will get over Don around this time.!! They should just be friends for the kids sake.
Some thoughts.
Alice Cooper is a lesbian. She mentioned her female companion and Burt seemed to know her.
I took her talking to Roger about his "children" to mean that dollars to doughnuts he'd be having more children with Jane.
And...how could Dick/Don live with a woman he isn't sleeping with? Does anyone think he was sleeping with Anna? Just a thought.
Joan was looking at somethng while being raped....not so much the couch as what was on the table. Maybe a weapon if she could have reached it?
What was that scene with the guys and the cars?
The HotRod scene was present day. Don used to sell them years before.
Plus Don would not have been in California so closely to having just gotten out of the Army. But the real proof is he's wearing the rolled up 38inch inseam pants from Anna.
Betty is still emotionally unable to deal with her problems. Rather than face what is going on in her marriage, she makes a telephone call and projects her feelings on her friend. She is still very angry with Don, but she has no way of expressing her feelings to him. Instead, she unleashes her anger on her friend. She is still such a child.
kudos to zabadu. I grew up in the 60's and my mom never grabbed my ponytail, locked me in a closet, or talked to me like I was 18 when I was 8. She did catch me smoking - I got a spanking (not a beating, a spanking). I don't know anyone who was put in the closet in the 60's.
I dont want Betty to be pregnant though. Sigh. I think the bleeding might just be one of those subtle hints MM leaves us. I think it was to show that now that Betty has to be the man AND woman of the house, she's forgetting about a lot of the "womanly tendencies" that she used to be able to look after. I've never been in her situation (thank goodness), but I'd think that in a situation like that you tend to stop thinking of the 'normal' things.
The Rays won the ALCS.
Alice Copper was grinding Sterling as he has his Children. Jane being his Young enough to be his Daugther as well as his real daugther.
Don is NOT sleeping with Anna. Anna let him take over the real Don Draper's life. She's too important to be just another lay.
Don says to the hot rodders "I'm looking for work." That doesn't sound like a man in a hurry to get back to Sterling-Cooper. One episode left. It's going to be a long hiatus for us and Don.
Thanks Julianne. Not all of us 60s kids were beaten. Most of us got sent to our rooms, and if we were REALLY bad, maybe a spanking - but just that - a spanking, not a beating.
How anyone could think that Betty isn't pregnant at this point - she screwed Don, now she's randomly bleeding? Women like Betty were fastidious...she'd have known just when her period was coming.
DamagedWomen - Loved your post. Agree with everything you said. I have to laugh when people talk about Betty being cruel to her kids. My Mom loved her kids to death but she was also a disciplinarian and sometimes she lost her temper like any normal parent does but we were never abused and neither are Sally and Bobby.
Also, I agree that Peggy and Ken would be a great couple.
I like how none of the guys in the office can pinpoint that Peggy got a haircut. "There's something different about you." and "You look different" from last episode.
Julianne, you said it yourself, you got spanked. Pulling someone from the pony tail was another form of punishment in the past--as one would pull a child by the ear now. I don't know about the closet part, I never went through that either. But she didn't actually lock the closet door. And it really isn't something for her to be termed as an evil witch for. She didn't smack Sally or beat her. And she actually TALKED to her after she calmed down.
"Betty smokes! it's normal for a child to imitate their mom!"
who ever said this, you are right. But it still wasn't socially acceptable for EIGHT year old's to smoke at that time either--whether or not their parents did it.
Mike--yup, they set up a third season. Still negotiating with MW though.
Alice Cooper.
HAHAHAHAHA!! Hee! Love it.
joan's been raped before and she looked away to dissociate from the situation. she's been a sexual abuse victim before. althugh they didn't show a flashback, i think that's where she "went" as he held her down and she knew what was coming. it's her coping mechanism. she became totally passive. maybe she was repeatedly molested as a child or young woman. or perhaps this is the doctor's preferred method of seduction. the look on her face showed extreme emotional pain which she was trying not to feel by zoning out. she needs to dump him pronto!!!
The hot rod scene was from the past, maybe that's how he got into the used car business.
Did anyone notice Peggy smoking and drinking? I don't remember her doing that in the past. She's become "one of the boys."
I think Betty's attitude with SaraBeth is she's equating it to Don's cheating. She has no sympathy, especially knowing SaraBeth's husband has been good to her. She relates.
Did you also hear Betty say to Sally that she may not be able to afford presents like the boots in the future?
I was really glad to hear Don say he loves Betty.
The baptism, the hot rod scene, both great.
I am having a hard time digesting the rape scene. I know that this show is about pushing boundaries, and about showing us the things rarely talked about... its just a very very sensitive subject. I hope that poor Joanie will be able to find some sort of justice in the whole ordeal.
I am so glad to see Peggys triumphs, and her loyalty to Don. Her conversation with Pete was marvelous. Her line about 'sleeping with Don' was my second favorite line of the season.
I wonder if anything will become of the mechanic Betty negotiated with in Episode 1?
robbie
Do you think we will see Joy and her family again? They reminded me of characters in a James Bond film.
I think that Joan will break it off with her fiance, since the creep raped her. When Joan and Peggy were talking, it seemed like Joan was trying to convince herself what a great guy her fiances is is. ("He is a surgeon, he helps kids...") If Joan is once again a free woman, things may heat up with Roger again.
I would love to see Trudy dump Pete. Pete is such a weasel.
I wish the season finale was a two hour special...there will be lots of ground to cover.
i cried while watching joan experience her fiance rape her. i hate that her character had to feel such evil -just when she thought things were looking up for her life.
i don't understand why betty wanted to make someone else as misrable as she was. i realize she was jealous of her friends marriage, but why would she turn angry when her friend confided in her and confirmed her wishes had come true?
yes, don was being baptized because that was an old southern baptismal hymn playing at the end.
i'm so confused as to why don would leave everything he worked hard for at the ad agency. i also wonder... if the merger goes through and don owns 12% then he is going to get millions -but how will he ever find out? will betty get the money because they can't find don? or maybe they will track him down when pete tells them his real name (whitman). oh, did anyone else notice that don was earning about 16k a month? back then that was about right because now they earn in the millions annually.
i don't know... i love this show so much because it i never can figure out what's going to happen next.
who do you think peggy's secretary will be? maybe a guy???
lq
I think Don will come home and love his new Betty. She is more beautiful as she gets angrier. She is growing.
My mother was a saint and if she wanted to move me when she was really angry, grabbing hair was not out of the question. It did not kill me. We jsut do not do things like that now.
Petey's in REAL love! YESSSSSS!
This episode might has well have been called "The Sacraments"! Don's baptism scene coupled with his multiple confessions to Anna (the sacrament of reconciliation ... possibly leading to a personal reconciliation with Betty).
Peggy was amazing with her use of ritualistic and eucharistic imagery for the Popcicle ad! Especially after she pours and passes with out streached arms the scotch in her office. The mother in the same position as Christ in The Last Supper passing out popcicles like they were body and blood! Even the campaign slogan "Take it, Break it, ... Love it" echoes the the words Jesus spoke to his disciples ... "Take this, and eat it, in remembrance of Me".
It might be a stretch but the sacraments of marriage and confirmation were alluded to in my mind. Joan seems to be attempting to find some solace in her future marriage despite her future husband's rape of her.
Even Peggy - in asking for and receiving Freddy's office becomes a full fledged member of the copy writers and the office. She is one of the boys and is in a way "confirmed" as a member of the old boys club. The office and all of its meanings and trappings are conferred upon her by Roger much as a priest/God would bestow membership in the Church.
Additionally Don and Betty's daughter receives the riding boots and hunt cap from her mother and becomes a "big girl" worthy of the adult knowledge of her parents separation (she is confirmed and therefore becomes a full member).
Anywhoodle ... great episode and wicked creative on the part of the writers.
This blog becomes overwhelming can't keep up with the hundreds of people signing on. By the way the way oldfashioned has been on this blog for along time and he/she is still at the bottom of the blog. Why hasn't he/she moved up ? There are hundreds logging on and this person is still at the bottom.
I don't think that Pete should ever know about the baby.
The song was country... crap. I had the closed captioning on I want to say it was hank williams , but that doesn't sound right.
Pulling hair and throwing kids in closets - pulling ears, etc. ARE abuse. It's a parent completely out of control.
Sorry you grew up that way.
Kitch, glad you agree! And even parents in this day and age "lose it" when they see their children do something that's not good for them. But they're still good, loving parents. I just think that no one can really say anything about Betty until we see another example of a mother disciplining her child.
And I'm so glad about the Ken/Peggy. I thought I was the only one who saw it. I enjoy their interactions more than those of the other Peggy/Office people. Though Pete/Peggy do have lots of chemistry in my opinion. I can't bring myself to "ship" them though, because I want Pete to work it out with his wife. I'm very old fashioned in that regard.
I don't think Betty has had a miscarriage. Menstrual cycles shift according to a woman's emotional health. Betty has been stressed and depressed for a while now. It wouldn't be too far fetched to think that her period just came late.
My musings:
Last episode showed Don sitting on the couch in Palm Springs with his hand over the couch to the left side of the couch, it is always shown on the right side of the couch. He has a dual life and he is now his alter ego.
Another thing that struck me was Dick fixed Mrs. Draper's chair. Do you remember the dinner party when Betty's chair was loose? She shook it and eventually broke it. Dick went to the grocery store and carried groceries home. Dick does things to help out. Dick is a nice guy. Don isn't.
Betty is bleeding could represent what is happening to her. Her life is seeping away. Don is very distant and absent from their family life, yet he controls every aspect of it.
During the assault scene with Joan there was traffic noise in the background. I wonder if Joan was raped before and the traffic noise is part of the memory? It will be interesting to see what develops. I think the good doc will be gone. I can't see the relationship continuing and he's such an 'emotional' loser he'll end it.
The relationship with Peggy and Joan is a good one. Peggy is the only person in that office that is genuinely interested in Joan. She listens to her while none of the men that she works for does. The women under her fear her power in the office so Joan really doesn't have relationships with the other 'girls'. She is in limbo. Her character probably garners the most sympathy from me. A product of the times.
My husband is really angry that the series finale is next week. It is unfortunate that AMC only produces seven episodes a season with such a high-quality product. I hope they rethink this and start the series earlier next year with more episodes.
The song is George Jones - "Cup of Loneliness".
couples i'd like to see:
peggy and ken
joan and paul
the doctor and his cellmate after he gets convicted of rape
sal and duck (just kidding - sal has better taste that that)
roger and betty - they deserve each other
was the blonde lady at the hotel he saw his ex-wife's twin sister who didn't have problems walking? (might be a stretch but i just remembered that part)
Anna rocked! She's the best blonde on Mad Men! And gives children lollipops! What a sweet lady!
Hmm. I wonder if Amy Poehler will play Betty Draper in the SNL "Mad Men" parody. Should be fun.
@Boca: Please don't wish that sort of unhappiness on Roger Sterling! LOL!
I think Joan will dump the finance, since he raped her. She seems to be in shock. As Joan and Peggy were talking, it seemed that Joan was trying to convince herself that he is a good guy. ("He is a surgeon, he works on kids...") The guy is scum. Once Joan is available, things may heat up with Roger. That could make for quite a bit of drama.
I think Trudy should dump Pete. He refuses to adopt a child with her, and he only cares about himself. He is a little weasel.
Bettymurielsatire...I got a good one for ya...
Alice Cooper.
HAHAHAHAHA!! Hee! Love it.
============
All I could think of was this song by Elton John,...
Raised to be a lady by the golden rule
Alice was the spawn of a public school
With a double barrel name in the back of her brain
And a simple case of Mummy-doesn't-love-me blues
Reality it seems was just a dream
She couldn't get it on with the boys on the scene
But what do you expect from a chick who's just sixteen
And hey, hey, hey, you know what I mean
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
Come over and see me
Come over and please me
Alice it's my turn today
All the young girls love Alice
Tender young Alice they say
If I give you my number
Will you promise to call me
Wait till my husband's away
Poor little darling with a chip out of her heart
It's like acting in a movie when you got the wrong part
Getting your kicks in another girl's bed
And it was only last Tuesday they found you in the subway dead
And who could you call your friends down in Soho
One or two middle-aged dykes in a Go-Go
And what do you expect from a sixteen year old yo-yo
And hey, hey, hey, oh don't you know
btw, imho roger is a fun, attractive guy but he's incredibly shallow and sophmoric. jane fancies herself literary and deep and writes poetry. they will come to the end of their infatuation with each other soon. at least i hope so.
i agree, bert's sister is a stitch and possibly a lesbian. however, rich women in those days did have "paid companions"....
we do see that dick/don did really love betty and was excited to marry her and start a family. he tells the truth and opens up to anna draper, his "first wife".
Not to seem mean but I am a MM Fanatic so I think about this show on a whole other level and some people make me mad (hmmm a mad man) when they say or ask things like they weren't watching the show at all if you pay attention you can catch it all.
1. Every one commenting on Betty refer to my earlier comment or my new thread and when she said I cant do it she was referring to taking care of the family alone.
2. This show got like 6 Emmy's there will be a third season
3. The last scene was done cleansing himself, yeas like a baptism. This will symbolize his new beginning because he will of course have to save the company from this dumb move to merge. Poor Cooper
4. Joan is an important character she will not commit suicide we will see her strength return in some shape or form and I do agree that it will have something to do with Roger.
5. Pete better get some act right he knows his role so he better play it well...its wrong but the whole thing is a game so to better his life he better walk a thin line when it comes to his wife, job, and money.
6. This goes out to the comment makers....watch the show PLEASE...dont just stare at the screen and watch colors move everyone involved in this MM project is doing a wonderful job take time and admire their work.
7. LOVE ALL OF YOU GUYS......KEEP MM ALIVE
Thankyou, zabadu...I was a child then too and none of the mothers, including my own would ever have done any of those things. Lock you in the closet???? Damagedwomen, are you crazy? Who did YOU know???...sorry, but I think that was an incredibly ignorant and ill-informed thing to say.
The only good relationships that Don/Dick seem to have with women are with the first Mrs. Draper and Peggy. Both relationships based on things he wants to hide from others and neither of those relationships involve sex.
Walking into the water = being reborn. Don is being born again. He'll be back.
bocaratonfan,
Love the Ken/Peggy recognition! lol I agree with all your couples except Betty and Roger. Betty is the ONLY woman on the show who hasn't cheated/betrayed her husband. Roger is an idiot living a mid life crisis. I loved that woman's jab at him. "take care of your children." "I only have the one." "You sure about that?" Score.
angelini
Good point I never thought of that.......if he adopts his own child he won't be out of his family money and he will make his own wife happy who will in the end make her father happy and Pete's job gets better....ART AT ITS BEST.....never thought of this nice point
Watched the blood part again--ya'll are right. Betty was flustered by it and it must have been abnormal if Sally noticed it. Still an odd indicator she's pregnant but have no other explanation either. I couldn't really see anything in the window reflection. Wonder who was on the phone?
Yeah, third season!!!! Hope they get some new advertisers and ditch Viva Viagra!
I kept waiting for Joan to pound him; what the hell happened to her? She is in as much denial as Peggy was when she was pregnant. I have a feeling Peggy will be the one to notice something is very wrong with Joan. I was a little confused with all the flashbacks also; thanks for the haircut tip if I watch it again. Betty did get her comeuppance on her setting her friends up. She is not pregnant, she just had her period. I don't know what the poster before was talking about when she said women always know when they are getting their period; are you kidding? I wish I had a dollar for every ruined pair of underwear.
Katie, read my posts again. Both of them were referring to Betty pulling Sally's hair. The only time I mentioned the closet was to point out that she didn't lock the closet door and that it's really not a punishment equal to that of an "evil witch". It was an act done in her time of anger and rage, the way people are describing Betty is fit for someone who brutally beats their child. She has never done that. Not even in her unstable emotional state.
I grew up in the 60's and my mom was a hair puller, kicker. It happened all the time and it still happens today! It's called corporal punishment and out of control adults do it to children everyday. Don't live with blinders on. Children are still abused today. Betty was NOT the only one who did it. It's a very realistic dramatization of what is still happening in the USA today! Open your eyes zabadu.
I might be the only one to say this but I give a LOT of credit to Pete for standing up to his Father-in-law. He easily could have gone along with what he wanted. It took a lot of guts to let the account go and face the wrath of his employers.
I agree with the poster who said that Betty is showing no sympathies to SaraBeth because she has been the victim of an affair herself, as is Raymond. And both are loyal and love their respective partners. I'm not one to sympathize with infidelity and I've never been a victim of it. I wouldn't expect Betty to be "understanding" when her friend confesses to her that she just pulled a Don.
And relating to that, Betty is not a bad friend. Francine went to HER for comfort after she found out about her husband's affair, and SaraBeth felt like she could talk to Betty about her feelings. She only snapped at SB's betrayal to Raymond. She's not unapproachable, I wish Don would see that.
"The comment in Popscicle pitch that the mother looks somehow familiar. She looks like Peggy, which must be a harbinger of her unconsiousness nodding to her own child."
That's what I thought too!!!! And I definitely think that Peggy realized it as well, because she hesitated when the man pointed it out. Poor Pegs. :(
I feel the need to take up for Pete. Trudy is a married woman now. How dare she call daddy like a spoiled brat and complain. She shot herself in the foot, Pete might lose income over this. As a good wife she should have discussed the adoption angency with him first. Not pull the appointment crap on him at work. Not discuss it with his secratary, how demeaning. And let him cool off and discuss it later. Calling daddy is not an option. How many women can't have a child feel like they must break line? I know she had daddy move them up on the list.
Rant Over
One more thing then I am gone for the night.....Peggy use to confide in Joan watch this happen in reverse now.
Oh, so shoving your kid in a dark closet BUT not locking it isn't abuse? Ever see Sybil? Betty wanted Don to inflict punishment on Bobby and was mad that he didn't until Don said he'd been beaten as a kid. Betty is seriously out of control with her kids.
Sorry you guys feel this is normal behavior in ANY decade, but those of us raised by "normal" parents disagree.
Betty set up Sally Beth and to go all moralistic on her was such a joke. Betty made the opportunity happen and then ditched her friend when she needed her. Betty is a horrible person. I think that's why Don has such a hard time understanding her, because Betty has no empathy for anyone. She plays victim really well.
A lot of women bleed when they are pregnant. I can't see why this is a shock to women on the board.
I agree with one of the previous writers that Joan was zoning out during the rape, perhaps because she had been abused before and just "went someplace else" to endure it and get it over with.
There might also be some symbolism with her focusing on the couch... wasn't she discovered there weeping after Marilyn Monroe died, by Roger? And he was mocking her that she was crying? And then she said someday he would lose someone he loved very much and then he might understand.
And in that moment, she lost Dr. Harris -- her feeling for him will never be the same. I predict a disengagement. Cut him loose, Joan! He's nothing but heartache.
EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! EPISODE.....
I definitely think Betty had a miscarriage.
angelini, you may be right. I'm not catholic so I would miss something like that--as I missed the whole baptism ending scene with Don. Kudos for realizing that.
welgolpol
Sorry you were abused. Whether it happened then, or is still happening now doesn't make it right. Don't make excuses for it. It's the same as spousal abuse. It isn't right and should never be tolerated.
My eyes are opened. I don't make excuses for abuse; even if several of you are. It's never right, never acceptable. Get help.
I agree with the comments about the book The Awakening. I remember that the main character in that story tragically drowns herself because she was a woman who was deeply unhappy with her marriage. She couldn't deal with society's pressure to be happy in the traditional role of wife/mother. Even though Draper was the one who was in the water, I thought of Joan when the book was mentioned.
I agree with one of the previous writers that Joan was zoning out during the rape, perhaps because she had been abused before and just "went someplace else" to endure it and get it over with.
There might also be some symbolism with her focusing on the couch... wasn't she discovered there weeping after Marilyn Monroe died, by Roger? And he was mocking her that she was crying? And then she said someday he would lose someone he loved very much and then he might understand.
And in that moment, she lost Dr. Harris -- her feeling for him will never be the same. I predict a disengagement. Cut him loose, Joan! He's nothing but heartache.
WAIT....
Betty is freaking out on her friend because it is hitting a nerve. Her own husband had an affair. Of course Betty was going to attack!!!!
Just watched the show again, getting into a bad habit of blogging while watching, thus missing things. Just noticed that Anna had cut Taro cards and it came up as the Resurrrection for Dick. And of course he gets baptized at the end to the tune of George Jones. I said earlier that I wasn't sure what he was being cleansed of.I am so tired I cant believe I said that. He has so many sins from which he must be cleansed. The question is where to start?
And who grabs a kid by the hair?
That's way out of control.
@FedoraDon: The mother in the Popsicle pitch drawing is supposed to resemble Christ and the children are lambs. It's a very Christian/Catholic bit of imagery, and probably the Popsicle guy is a Christian, so it resonated, but he didn't quite recognize it.
Pete's virile, all right, he fathered Peggy's boy and the fertility expert from a few eps back confirmed that Pete's boys can swim. It's Trudy who can't have kids, so she wants to adopt. Pete doesn't want to. It's like buying off the rack instead of custom-made. As much Pete appears to resent his family, he can't see that he's as dogmatic about doing the "correct" thing and about appearances as they are. If he ever did hook up with Peggy, it would be against everything he ever thought to be true about himself. I can't see that happening unless he has a "Saul on the road to Damascus" moment.
And Paul's an ass. Right on, Sheila! for dumping the slimy git.
@MadManSuze: I haven't heard that Elton John song in years. Gee!
I don't think that Joan will dump the doctor, at least not right away. Back in 1962, the concept of "date-rape" had not been discussed - and that is what this is. I believe that what happened to Joan was terrible and that her reaction was complete numbing/out of body denial. She'll hang in there with him either until she ends up in a miserable marriage, or until she is saved by a friendship - perhaps Peggy or even Roger.
As for Peggy, I feel like congratulating her, and warning her - her success is threatening to Ken and to Paul.
I am a woman of 61 and I watched the birth of the late 20th century feminist movement. The writers get my very highest accolades for portraying the birth of it with intelligence and sensitivity.
why are people on this thread saying that anna was his first wife? she was the wife of the original don draper -never dick whitmann. and, he needed a divorce from her because his new identity was Don Drapper.
I don't think that Joan will dump the doctor, at least not right away. Back in 1962, the concept of "date-rape" had not been discussed - and that is what this is. I believe that what happened to Joan was terrible and that her reaction was complete numbing/out of body denial. She'll hang in there with him either until she ends up in a miserable marriage, or until she is saved by a friendship - perhaps Peggy or even Roger.
As for Peggy, I feel like congratulating her, and warning her - her success is threatening to Ken and to Paul.
I am a woman of 61 and I watched the birth of the late 20th century feminist movement. The writers get my very highest accolades for portraying the birth of it with intelligence and sensitivity.
Anna doesn't have wooden legs. She has the after effects of polio. It was big in the "old" days.
Love how--despite her pain in her own life--Joan never misses an opportunity to put the 3 boys in their place. Yes Don called and he said for you to get to work....Keeping SC running as efficiently as possible is what keeps her grounded.
Even if the boys think she's kidding, they still do as they are told.
Violence against children is NEVER okay! It's disgusting, vile and unacceptable! I cannot believe excuses are being made for it!
Great episode so far. Is there going to be a third season?
I wonder how many people are going to grab Christina Hendricks on the street and hug the hell out of her?
Violence is bad, except when it is normal. The morals and rules and norms in the early 60's was to punish children. Spare the rod, spoil the child. The main reason we do not do it now is the government saying we can't.
Though I do not think my mother did anything wrong, I chose not to raise my girls that way. Good thing, because the government tells me that I have to do it their way now. And the beat goes on,on,on,on,on.....
Awesome, amazing episode - much like Nixon v. Kennedy last year in its emotional impact and setting us up (hopefully) for another 'Wheel" next week. "Alice' was a stitch. Bravura work by Elisabeth Moss especially in emulating the master, from the Popsicle pitch to her priceless putdown. Where is Roger when we need him to rescue Joan? Kudos to the actress playing Anna - she was wonderful - and seeing JH open up his range with her across the Dick/Don spectrum was equally riveting.
Worth every minute of slogging through "Jet Set" last week to get to this point.
zabadu, No one here has been making excuses for abuse or saying its acceptable. Only saying that it happens, it's reality. You made the comment that NO ONE did that. I'm just letting you know that now you do know someone it happened to. I would never make any excuses for it, like it's ok. Just saying that it happened and still does. I've stopped the circle of violence. I have three kids and have never performed any sort of corporal punishment to them. Because so many people who are abused, end up abusing their children because it's the way they were raised. Sorry for the lecture, but I had to do a paper on this for school and it's all fresh in my mind.
Keep your comments going at this Mad Men Forum.
Just a comment about Joan and her Dr. I know from experience [because I'm married to one], that they are control freaks. That is how they get through med school and 38 hour shifts, and even when they become attendings their lives are never really their own. This is NOT an excuse for what he did. He was despiicable. Just an observation. Going to bed have to be up at 5;00.
zabadu, please don't make accusations about us defending abuse. It's unnecessary. Betty did not abuse Sally. Hair pulling is a tactic that was/is still used. It does not scar the child in any way. She put Sally in the closet because she didn't know what else to do with her in her anger. But she didn't just leave her there screaming. It was a way to control the situation before it got out of hand. The point of not locking the door is to show that it is NOT a regular occurrence and she didn't just ignore her. She calmed down, opened the door, and talked. That's what part of parenting is about. You get angry, but you check yourself before you do anything that would really hurt you offspring.
What did Betty ask Don to do to Bobby? The only thing she ever mentioned was "a spanking". she said herself that her dad would give her "a good spanking" whenever she was out of line. The poster that agreed with you said herself that she was spanked as a child. I was not on Betty's side during the situation however, because she pushed too hard and I felt bad for Bobby, but like you said, she stopped when she found out Don's past abuse. She doesn't want that for her children.
As for the lack of empathy, Francine and SaraBeth both went to HER during their time of need, and she comforted them. She set up SB for a test, but SB is an adult who was not forced into anything. Adultery isn't something to be taken lightly. Especially for someone in Betty's situation. Also, she was nicer to Helen at the beginning than any of the other women. She still sympathized with her situation when all the other women were making fun of her clothes in episode 3. I get that you don't see this because you hate Betty, but I'm just letting you know that it's there.
zabadu-So you're saying Betty gets pregnant every time she has sex? So she and Don have only had sex three times because they have two kids and now she's pregnant? And you don't understand anyone who isn't positive she's pregnant like you are? Every woman knows the exact moment her period will arrive? And it's common to bleed when pregnant? Did I understand your comment correctly?
OK, did you notice Betty forged Don's name endorsing the back of the check in the home Office, on the desk with the locked drawer? And to right the misconceptions about Betty's call to the stable-boy-masher: Betty is not evil and did not call to be mean. Betty called her to ask about the private school, Country Day... she was thinking Sally needs to go there, and called to get insight about whether that would be best for her daughter, then got sidetracked into the stable boy affair conversation.
@ldraper: Yes, I was the one who asked that since Anna said she was surprised to see DD at her door, who did he call from the beach house last week? I thought I was in this talk form. I guess I wasn't.
Another great episode. With Anna you get to see that other side of Don/Dick. He is gentle, unsure and kind. Nothing at all like he projects.
I really like the new age undertones in this series - this episode with the tarot cards - the concept of transformation is so strong.
Go Peggy! She makes me proud.
does anyone think don will never return to ny as the ad man he was?
GemCat, I was thinking the same thing. But I think she was referring to Jane, since that is the main situation.
Dick with the Hot Rodders. Dick asks if you do/can sell them. The guy explains that a few shops have done well, but he came out there to work on them and sell them and ended up working in a bar. Dick/Don's mind is clicking. If there's money to be made selling something, Don knows how to do it. That may be his new game if he decides to relocate to California. He'll get back with Betty, he's born again, cleansed of his sins. People can change. Unfortunately, with one episode left, we'll all be left hangin' next Sunday night.
And Joan's Doctor, he's pissed that she's slept around more than he has, and he knows Roger was one of her men. That's why he rapes her at the office. He's trying to degrade her for her office liaisons over the years. And bring himself up (in his mind) to the equal of her previous lovers. Sicko. Everybody's right, he's a goner.
GemCat63 -she was making a joke about the age of his current girl friend/considering her a child.
Damaged, have to disagree with you on hair pulling not being abuse. It is. Please look up the definition of corporal punishment. It's the deliberate intent of inflicting pain. Betty was quite deliberate in her intent. It is abuse. Any physical action against a child by an adult is abuse. Whether it's done out of love or not. Sad but true.
I'm just thinking about this...but Don seemed to be happy with Betty at a time when he was allowed to be Dick with Anna. So I'm thinking that his sudden coldness to Betty developed from the stress of having to move away from his only outlet to be his real self. I think that after he left Anna he got so caught up in the image of Don, that he just snapped. Sad, cause he was such a cutie in the flashback.
i loved the dress that peggy wore while moving into her office!
why on earth would they have referenced betty being on her cycle? she did not look shocked -instead she looked like "whatever".
i'm so sick of her stupid character!!!!
Dick Whitman's time visiting Anna ( no he's not sleeping with her ) has re-Birthed him. He no longer is carrying guilt.
He'll go to Long Beach and make contacts in the racing scene. Remember there was a lot of futuristic car concepts then in this Still Buck Rogers aerospace era. Don will roll it into an automobile client and some auto vendors also or perhaps Esso or " Tiger in your tank " gasoline company. Oil companys promotion of racing was huge, space age design the sky was the limit.
Hot Rod, Car mechanics were present day : Don was walking with groceries Present day, had it been earlier he would have been driving and not bring groceries as he lived at his place.
1am exact eastern.
I could not believe the rape scene with Joan and the doctor fiancee. It seemed so totally our of character for Joan to be out of control or not to put that guy in his place because that is what she excels at. Is she so afraid of losing him and not getting married that she would just let him rape her like that? The thought did run through my mind that maybe there is something about Don Draper's office that turns even a normal man into a raving sex fiend. Don always seemed to have to leave the office early to go and satisfy his sexual urges.
welgolpol, have you ever seen a child being pulled by the ear by their parents? Such action, like hair pulling, is equivalent to a slap on the wrist to a child. I've never done it, but I do know that it is socially acceptable in certain situations in Canada (where I live). There is a debate still going on, but it is not illegal or taboo. Also, I'm arguing from the perspectives of a family in the 60s, when, as you have addressed, it was recommended to use MINIMAL punishment on your child in order to teach them lessons that will improve their future. Now we know that it doesn't work all that well, but in the 60s, it was done based on the perspective that the little physical pain would make the child avoid any bad behavior out of fear of it being repeated.
welgolpol, have you ever seen a child being pulled by the ear by their parents? Such action, like hair pulling, is equivalent to a slap on the wrist to a child. I've never done it, but I do know that it is socially acceptable in certain situations in Canada (where I live). There is a debate still going on, but it is not illegal or taboo. Also, I'm arguing from the perspectives of a family in the 60s, when, as you have addressed, it was recommended to use MINIMAL punishment on your child in order to teach them lessons that will improve their future. Now we know that it doesn't work all that well, but in the 60s, it was done based on the perspective that the little physical pain would make the child avoid any bad behavior out of fear of it being repeated.
I said this in another post but in different words. Why do people feel Roger has to 'save' Joan? I feel this series will show us how old modes of thinking and behaving will be smashed-just like the real 1960's. I feel Joan will become a pioneer in the women's rights movement. She has observed & participated in high powered business for 9 years. She is extremely intelligent and saavy. She has been dismissed by male workers when she demonstrated she has a better grasp of the jobs they are doing and as in the example of the script reading episode is better at the job than the guy presently holding the position. The first time I felt that she would 'rise up' so to speak was the episode where she rubs her shoulder from the pain of the bra strap. I felt that perhaps symbolically she would become a bra burner some day. I know the restriction that bras put on women and although there is support it is somewhat of a prison to HAVE to wear one all the time. Anyway- I I also feel that Peg's success wil be ultimately all women's future success and I think Joan recognizes this. She, I feel, was geniuinely happy for Peg's advancement. More so than the men who acted like disappointed, envious little boys when they saw her office. The character Peg showed great restraint in not giving them a piece of her mind for their rude comments.
@Laurie Petrie: I agree with you. Does the bleeding mean she isn't pregnant? Or, is she miscarrying?
Didn't you notice when Pete asked Peggy about the office, and she said she was sleeping with Don. "It's working out really well." Pete gave her his "Peggy Smile". The smile he reserves for Peggy Olson only. He was touched that she would kid with him like that, and he knew that she never would have said that in jest to anyone else in the office, because she's only slept with Pete. Very telling ending for Peggy and Pete. Good closer for the writers.
In case everyone doesn't already know: FYI: Joe Hamm is the SNL host this week. Now that the MM season is over, I can't wait to see the MM skits SNL puts together with Hamm. Can we help the SNL writers with any funny suggestions? I'm recording SNL right after where I recorded episode 12.
Where are GemCat63 , Angelini both your time stamps are an hour ahead of me and i'm on the east coast in the atlantic ocean.
This time stamp is messed up.
1:01am
When Don stops to talk with the guys who are working on their street rods, he introduces himself as Dick Whitman. There was no need or reason to do otherwise. He may well and truly be at that point where acceptance can assert its transformational powers. Anna's ongoing friendship and support may have helped bring Don to where he can begin to forgive himself and commence healing his brokenness. The Pacific Ocean cleansing was fitting.
Peggy continues to rock. Her retort was one of the best of many great one liners that consistently populate the Mad Men landscape.
over 200 blogs already, and Mountain King just aired! It was my favorite episode about Jon Hamm's character. It was so great to see him truly relaxed with a friend he trusted. I also loved The Jet Set, where he was so puzzled about how people could live like that. You do such great writing for him, and he does such great acting for us. I'm heartbroken that next week is the end of the second season. Can't think of anything I'll have to look forward to. There doesn't seem to be enough of "Mad Men".
Everyone I know that went to Catholic school rarely told their parents about a nun's punishment of them, as we all knew that our parents would AGREE with the nun!
===================
Indeed. Parents did not question what a nun did to you. The consensus was "you probably deserved it."
If you got the ruler, the gum on the nose or you knelt on top of raw rice (eh, my cousin got this as a punishment when she was in Catholic grammar school) then, that was your just desserts.
Did they have Tampons in 62? Don't think they Did .... Betty had a Pad blow -out !! Guess she's not pregnant.
When Betty grabbed Sally i thought she was going to open the ceil door and throw her down in the basement .
Love reading all the blogs! This is my first entry. I am a huge fan of the show and I loved this episode. I agree that Dick Whitman is a lot nicer than Don Draper. I also loved how he described how much he loved Betty. I would love more flashbacks of how their relationship began.
As far as the bleeding being about forgetfulness, I think it has to be something a lot more major than just "forgetting her period." There are a lot less distasteful ways to show this, but maybe I'm wrong.
Also, please have Joan dump that creepy Dr. he is just treating her like an object just like all the other guys in her life!
Bappy53 you're right those Nun's beat the shit out of everyone and stashed all the infant births under the church. Very common for pregnant nuns to kill the child and bury them under the church.
Wow. I loved this episode very much. It was so nice to see Don be at peace, with a real mother figure like Anna. Just beautiful. I love how the writers handled their relationship. Sad seeing his enthusiasm about getting married in the flashback. But the tarot card scene and the baptism in the water were just exquisite.
Separately, it was so awful what happened to Joan; what a degenerate loser that guy is. Good God.
Everyone posting are being inserted prior to the last 6-7 postings makes for a mess.
Oh , Well at least there was no Bath tub Hotels.Com Ad !!
Ok. people we have 226 posts ... where are the controllers texting and the grammer correction blog police.
Everyone here seems to enjoying themselves .... Where are the insults ?
1:19am
Hello, MM fanatics! I am new to board but have been hooked on the series since I watched the opening of the first episode. Love the comments on the board, too.
I relive aspects my past lives in each episode. It really is like a deja vu experience. I grew up in Southern California in the 40s & 50's (yes, many parents punished children like Betty did - and worse!); I worked in the early 60's in an office like SC as a secretary (sex with the bosses in the office was commonplace - even expected in some places) ); I married a "keeper" (who wasn't); and I was a pretty bored housewife stuck in the domesticated burbs like Betty. I even had that knotty pine kitchen!
I marvel how MM's writers and crew are able to capture the zeitgeist of that unique post-war period with such accuracy, comprehension and compassion for the characters that represent the many of us who made it through all the societal transitions of the time! It was a wild ride...
Now, as for episode 12, I am also wondering about the significance of the scene with the hot rodders. Someone knew their car stuff and the Lions Drag Strip in Long Beach was quite a big deal in those days.. guys with black leather jackets, heavy boots and grease on their hands raced their hand-tooled hot rods every weekend. In the mid-60s, alcohol-fueled dragsters took over the strip. It was an exciting, sexy, dangerous place to be! What was going on in DD's mind as he stroked the shiny chrome and eyeballed the paint job on the cars in that alley?
@RMG: Wow! I can't believe you caught that bit about Alice Cooper's female, moody companion making them a lesbian couple! Thanks for the eye-opener, and I'm sitting here watching the episode again for the 3rd time! Great Catch! Keep posting!
(so I know EVERYTHING that's going on!)
I couldn't watch the rape scene with Joan. I just looked at her face, and I couldn't watch anymore. I kept thinking, "It's Don' office. If only he were close enough to walk in and stop it." I agre with the poster. I hope Dr. Harris gets hit by a bus, but if that's not possible, what do you think Paul, Ken, Sal, Harry, his orangutang office-mate, and Pete would do to him, if they knew what he did to their "Miss Holloway"?
@k: I have news for you, what happened to Joan in Don's office was NOT "an incident". Rape is a crime of violence, not affection.
@Angelini: I was a Sally's age during this time period of the show. Does anyone know what Pete's legal rights would be concerning his son?
Was that his son that Peggy was holding onto a while back, while her mom went up to communion?
There was no DNA back then.
Do we even know when Peggy got pregnant? Was it the first time with Pete or the 2nd time? (And wasn't Peggy on the pill at the time?)
zabadu,
Sorry, but people did grab their kids by the hair back then and lock them in closets. Betty did not lock Sally in the closet, she had her hand on the door knob and the kid was only in there for a few seconds. Besides, Sally just sassed her big time from inside that closet - she has spirit. And Betty did listen to what Sally said and she realized what effect the situation between her and Don was having on the kids. She got the riding boots because Sally has been asking to go riding since last season.
By the way, as a former grade school teacher, I can tell you plenty of people lock their kids in closets even now. My parents never did that, thank heaven, but it's actually not an uncommon practice. Some kids are locked in there while Mom and Dad go out for hours or just don't want to see the kids. Babysitters lock kids in closets, too. Make friends with some teachers and social workers - you'll learn a lot about human nature.
I agree with others who've said that Don/Dick is so much more comfortable in his own skin at Anna's house. It's because she knows who he really is. The only one who knows. He always looked so stiff and on the defensive in New York. So fake really because he was false to himself.
Notice how Betty was signing checks at the beginning? And we know that Don has been sending Anna checks all these years, I think that was a foreshadowing of Betty finding out about it.
I must confess that I can't stand Betty. To me she is a spoiled rich beauty queen who hasn't known suffering until she found out about Don's dalliances. Also she's stupid.
Its been a while since I was on the forum. This was a really good episode and was a definate rebound from last week. It was great seeing Betty getting the Popsicle account and then standing up to Roger to get Freddy's office. As for Joan, I'm concern after the incident with her fiancee she will either break off the relationship or have a breakdown. She wanted to get married and have a better life. Know she seems distraught. Paul near the end of the show stares at her. I wonder if things will start heating up or their will be major tensions with Paul and Joan in the season finale episode. I think Paul has just had enough of Joan and wants to tell her off or tell her how he feels.
As for Don, he looks like he is getting ready to redeem himself and will come back to New York and Sterling Cooper. As for Betty, I think there was a clue that might get Don to go back to the Betty and the kids. What's great upon this show is that you have to watch all the episodes to understand what he scene signifies. Can't wait to see John Hamm on SNL this Saturday. I bet you they will do a parody and I can't wait from the season finale.
PS I think there was an AP or press release just an hour ago that the show will be back for a third season. Yeah!!! Lets get more people to watch the show. Yes to Mad Men.
Hated the scene with Joan! Hope that the good Dr. cuts a wrist in surgery, just hope Joan doesn't.
What is going to happen when Pete discovers that he has a child with Peggy? Is he going to insist on "adopting" him"?
I am probably so wrong on this one but .....I felt that the casual attitudes of Joan and her boyfriend after the incident in the office did not match the proceeding incident. Is it at all possible that this was just part of Joan's sexual imagination? Was she tampering with aggressive sexual fantasy when in reality her partner was passive and not preforming? I have found in various reports on sexuality that such fantasies do exist to a greater extent than what one may expect. Its just a thought. My "greater" instinct tells me that this may be a false conclusion.
I went to Catholic school from K-12, 13 years, and I could count on one hand how many times I saw a nun get violent with a kid and there were 60 of us in a classroom built for 35. We had to have been a handful, one nun, 60 kids, no assistant.
Friends and family members who went to public schools faced corporal punishment, too, and they had a lot of male teachers whose whacks were a lot harder than any nun's.
I know it's in vogue to criticize everything Catholic these days, but the Catholic school system in this country educated millions of us, on a shoestring budget. Those nuns, priests and brothers spent their lives taking care of other people's children and I for one am thankful for the education they gave me.
NYerinMpls, the scene with Don in the ocean made me think of The Awakening too! I saw the waves crashing over him as he went out deeper, and I started hearing the last paragraph of the book in my mind. I'm sure the writers had to be making a reference to that amazing book, don't you think?
Some one posted about Bert Cooper's reason for voting for the merger. Didn't his sister mention that he was sick, after she told him how old he was? Maybe that's why he decided not to fight it.
Joan's plight is heartbreaking. Let's hope her core will out in the final episode and dump this loser/abuser.
Don has never looked happier or more at peace than in the company of his "first" wife Anna, So what does her wooden leg symbolize, that she is more real even though part of her is false?
Pet is pridefule liitle prick who would rather commit professional and familial suicide rather than give the appearance (though false) that he is not virile enough to father a child.
The comment in Popscicle pitch that the mother looks somehow familiar. She looks like Peggy, which must be a harbinger of her unconsiousness nodding to her own child.
And, unless I miss my bet, Teddy the piano playing boy is Matt Weiner's other son. The resemblance and voice are so similar to the lock of hair young friend of Betty.
What a great episode…
Peggy handing out the alcohol in the paper cups right after Sal mentioned his mother giving the two popsicles out “like Jesus at the Last Supper”. Great!
Loved Anna! A no-nonsense woman who can put big Don in his place – that lady has spunk and panache. “Stop lying! You’ve been caught – don’t make me do something I don’t want to do.” If only more people would say that to him.
Then there was the parade of the chauvinistic men… In the forefront is Pete who won’t even listen to Trudy’s pleas for a child and smashes her dreams with a “this is final”, as if his opinion is the only one that counts. Then there’s Dr. Missionary Position who can’t stand the idea of there being other men before him in Joan’s life and won’t let her be on top. Joan can’t kick that jackass to the curb fast enough!
It was sweet to hear Don talk about Betty with Anna in the flashback. He seems so happy – things were muck less complicated back then. He got the second chance at life that her husband didn’t get, and I think he knows he better not screw it up for his sake and Anna’s.
Peggy is becoming Don. She’s drinking, smoking, lying (claiming her idea for the Popsicle art was “original” when the imagery is obviously reminiscent of pictures of Christ), and gaining more control in the office.
Is there symbolism in the (blood) red roses that Joan left after his fiancé raped her in Don’s office? Very poignant scene, but so hard to watch. And I’m wondering if it’s somehow tied into Betty and her bleeding.
Sorry meant Peggy getting the popsicle account. My bad.
New and Improved - In no way do I think Joan's rape was just something she imagined. The thing is, Joan's fiance definitely didn't think he raped her, and Joan would probably say he didn't rape her, because people at that time would consider any sexual contact between people in a relationship to be consensual and not rape. That does not mean that Greg didn't rape her - he did, but most people at the time wouldn't have seen it that way. Rape was something that a scary stranger did, not your boyfriend or husband. When Joan realized she couldn't stop him, she zoned out. Afterward, they acted casual because Dr. A-hole didn't see anything wrong in what he did, and Joan was just trying to keep the peace and deal with what happened to her. She finally caught her doctor, and she has to figure out if his actions are something she's willing to put up with in order to keep him. Notice how she she left the flowers that he brought her on her desk. I think there is some symbolism in the lost blood red roses.
I think the familiarity in the popsicle ad is something that Peggy took from her parish. Remember she said the Catholic church can sell anything. The woman in the picture is in the same pose as the Virgin Mary. Look at her hands and her stance...and the foreshadowing of Father Gil being called to the parish for Peggy.
Damaged Woman - Sorry, but it was NOT common for mothers in the 60s to grab their kids by the hair and lock them in a closet. Only psycho abusive ones, maybe!
I believe they are trying to show child punishments as they were in the '60s. Betty is one of my favorite characters. I don't think she realizes how abusive that behavior is, but Betty is always being abused: by Don, that comedian, her senile father, every man that falls in love with her stunning looks.
I was Sally's age then, and my Dad yelled ALOT, but we never were physically punished, altho our pets were!
Someone told me that a Catholic School punishment was to make a child eat "a dry lunch": peanut butter sandwich with no drink.I know it isn't as exciting as putting infants under churches, but I thought I'd throw it in.
@jack carlson: Geez, Jack, that story upset me so much. Especially after we just saw Joan assulted. I'm sorry about your loss.
Great episode. So many things going one. Anna being introduced was encouraging. It's amazing how California seems so much modern than it's New York counterpart. It seemed like everything going on in San Pedro was contemporary and fresh and everyone in New York seemed antiquated and obselete.
Also, the issue with Joan and her fiancee. I was horrified. I'm 26 and can't imagine living in a time when this type of behavior was acceptable. It made me sick. I hope Joan takes her fiesty attitude and gets the hell away from that sexual deviant rapist!
Can't wait for the season finale next week! (Kind of sad this season is already over. Boo.) Does anyone know when Season 3 begins?
As for Pete and Peggy's baby...IF the baby is still around, not having been adopted already, and IF Peggy tells Pete about it, Pete could do a secret deal with the adoption folks and get his kid and bring it home. That way, Trudy gets her baby fix and he gets one with his bloodline, without having to fess up to Trudy.
But how would that work? Can this happen in one episode? Only one left for this season. I don't think there's enough time to tie up this loose end. Maybe it will end with Peggy telling him about the kid and when the story resumes next season (in 2 years MM time). hmmmm delicious
Regarding Alice's comment about Roger's "children": was she making a snarky comment about Jane, or could Roger have an illegitimate child? Could this child possibly be Ken Cosgrove? Sorry, this is just one of my secret theories. It feels good to be able to share it. Ken and Roger remind me of each other.
Concerning Betty on the telephone: Betty has just been through psychoanalysys. The big PA! Can't you see that this has made her a no BS person? From shooting her neighbors pigeons with a shot gun, to telling Don to get out. She's not going to live with denial. From anyone. Not even Bobby or Sally's, "I didn't do it!"
This is how the comedian was able to so easily get her to believe the truth about Don and Bobbie.
SarahBeth is going to get the same treatment. Betty is calling a spade, a spade - no denial. It's called successful psychoanalytic treatment! Good for Betty for walking away from treatment with her princess eyes wide open. "Whine, whine": "But, Betty, you set us up!" I'll take some good old-fashioned, psychoanalyzed, non-denial friends over people who can't admit to what's reality, anytime.
GemCat63...interesting theory. Ken and Roger do favor and remember...Ken gets paid more that the other guys in his department.
Why did Roger talk to Peggy with such disdain when he said, "What do YOU want?" in the scene where she asks him for Freddy's office? Did they ever clash before?
To wasthere, Laura Petrie, gage, number1fan an others:
The hot rod scene was not from the past. The hot rod guy tells Don that he built the car from several different parts and lists all the model years. One part the guys says was from something built in 1960. (“a ’60 nailhead”). So it HAS to be after 1960. Don even tells the guys that he "USED to sell these cars used", referring to his past days as a car salesman. Don is also wearing the new clothes that Ana got for him and he mentions that he is looking for work. Add it all up and this scene is taking place in present day 1962.
Great lines in this week’s episode:
Sally to Betty: “He left because you’re stupid and mean.”
Roger to Alice about the mink: “I’m sorry, I don’t know who’s eyes to look at.”
Peggy to Pete: “I’m sleeping with Don. It’s working out.”
And the Alice Roger exchange…
ALICE: You have your children to look after.
ROGER: I just have the one.
ALICE: Really?
Boom!!! In ‘yo face Roger!
To Zabadu, Nolomis, Mad@TV:
Despite your attempts to explain it away, I still say Alice is racist. (what a shocker considering it’s 1962). She and Bert openly discuss the merger in front of the help from the moment she walks in his office. They both seemed to have no problem openly discussing a sensitive topics like the stock price, not to mention the merger itself. So Berts comment to Alice was not about Cleveland keeping his mouth shut, it was about Bert reassuring his sister that the black man she does not know wouldn’t put something in the drink she just ordered. Wow, even with a show that has proven its self to be lathered in the racism of the early 1960s, it’s cute how you white folks refuse to acknowledge those attitudes even existed. (and still do). No wonder it took so long for a President Obama to even be remotely possible.
Your pal,
Lucky Strike
angelini: Ken also does "extra" things for Roger, like keep an extensive list of high-priced call girls, and as you pointed out, gets paid more! Hmmmm...
GemCat63: What do you think will happen if Pete finds out about his and Peggy's son?
Hi All--Loved this episode. It's amazing how different Jon Hamm looks just by changing his expressions in the flashback and present day with Anna. Their relationship seems like brother and sister and it was uplifting to see Don so relaxed and reflective. Don said he was just scratching to get into his life and longingly looking out the window while hearing the ocean - lovely, ending.
As far as Betty's reaction to Sally's smoking - I think it was a little strong - but I do agree that children back then were often punished with spanking, etc. I had a nun in school that used to take you by one of your cheeks and "run you around the classroom" - she actually used to ask the student (offender) if he or she wanted to "take a run around the room"! Everyone I know that went to Catholic school rarely told their parents about a nun's punishment of them, as we all knew that our parents would AGREE with the nun! Was that extreme - yeah - but it didn't kill us. So I really didn't find the scene with Betty and Sally tramatizing. However, you could tell that Betty felt badly about it - hence the present and also the truth about her dad's unknown whereabouts. I guess Sally will never forget her mother telling her the news.
I loved Peg - she is such a riot with her line to Pete about how she got the office. Sorry though about Joan - love her - she does not deserve that lousy doctor.
As for Betty and Sarabeth--I think Betty has a code of ethics - as she said - wanting something isn't having it.
I agree with LoveMM that a viewer needs to watch the show as a representation of an era with different attitudes/values/assumptions, not as a modern day show in period drag.
The creators are working very hard to present put the show in period and not just with product placement and fashions: the behavior seems appropriate by my memories.
That said, this was indeed a time of change, much of it still undercurrent, but definitely there. Contrary to myth, lots of mothers did indeed work in the 50s, for example. And attitudes toward parenting were in flux -- there could be a big difference, for example, between the way parents who had delayed marriage/kids because of WW2 raised their kids, a way that would reflect the harsher attitudes of the 20s and 30s, and the parents who came of age after the war whose parenting reflected more modern attitudes.
The creators are getting a lot right in this show. Those of us in the audience who are younger can watch and learn a lot about why older folks act and think the way they do. Today's attitudes did not suddenly appear full grown -- they grew out of, and in response to, attitudes that came earlier.
I taught in an urban school in the '80s where quite a few teachers would put unruly students in the cloak closet.
i am so confused! can anyone clarify this for me:
is Don still with that girl "Dawn" in California? OR did he go to visit the real Mrs. Drapper in the present day too? I know a bunch of scenes with the real Mrs. Drapper were flashbacks, but I'm not sure if they were present day as well. Thank you in advance to anyone who clarifies this for me.
my email is brycieboo1988@yahoo.com
thanks again!
1) Heh--"The Two Mrs. Drapers." Anna is what Don sorely needs--a real friend who knows the score and can level with him. And I dunno why she calls herself an "old lady"--she looks younger now than she did back in her NYC days. Cali will do that for ya...:)
2) Why do I have the horrible feeling Joan is going to hang with Dr. Scum out of guilt--and feeling like she has no other options? I don't like her, but I wouldn't wish that fate on anyone.
3) Popsicles as a religious experience? I wonder who the mother in the ad reminded the Popsicle guy of--the Virgin Mary, maybe? And one of the things that makes this show so great is showing how advertising is as much a reflection of those who create it as it is of what those folks think people want to see.
4) Gotta give Pete credit (and that's _really_ hard to do.) His reasons for not wanting a kid are lousy, but at least he's realized that he's not cut out to be a parent and doesn't want to have a child just because everyone else is. I don't blame him for blowing up at Trudy--that kind of underhanded "I want a baby no matter what" breeder brain tactic is inexcusable. She deserved to have it thrown back in her face.
5) Heh--Sheila dumped Kinsey. Figured she'd realize he was a first-degree poseur. :)
Oh, yeah...
6) Good ol' Betty--she offloads her desire onto someone else, then gets viciously judgemental towards that person. Nice...:P
7) And it's a lovely irony that the fake Don Draper can appreciate the first Mrs. Draper for her character--whereas the real Draper didn't even think enough of her to mention he was married. The first Mrs. Draper's predicament sounds very biblical as well--it's a good bet the real Draper married her because her family wouldn't let the younger sister get married until the oldest was hitched.
This episode really hit me hard because Joan looks very, very much like an old girlfriend who was the love of my life 20 years ago. All you would have to do is change her red hair to dark brown. We were madly in love, but sadly both married to other people. I could never have even imagined treating her like Joan was treated here.
Just remembered another punishment doled out by some of the urban teachers in the school where I began my teaching career:
Squatting on the floor and balancing dictionaries in each hand.
This was in the early 1980s.
I believe that some of the viewers/posters are quite young and can't imagine what life was like in the '60s. It was very different with sooo much less government!
Much as I admire this show I fear it's beginning to stretch credulity. Peggy's a copy writer who not only gets an office but is allowed to lead pitches to clients? Maybe it was different back in the early 60s, but in my experience we copy writers were largely treated as grunts and kept in the back room (and I would've been laughed back to my desk if I came up with an eight word tag line with three commas in it). But that's nitpicky stuff compared to this revelation about Joan's husband? Where did THIS come from? Sorry, but smells like a blatant plot device to me, which means it gives her a reason to stoke things up with Roger again and douse his flame for the twenty year old. Also, as much as I think some backstory was necessary in regard to Don, are we going too far with the orginal Mrs. Draper? And was it just me or did anyone else cringe when Don was telling the woman about "meeting a girl"? I just don't see him as a guy who would gush about a woman, much less blush over it. Even in his twenties.
Bottom line I think the show is getting too far away from the office. Someone mentioned earlier that they thought Duck would be gone if the Brits' deal falls through, but here's hoping he's not. Lately, he's been the only one providing the office intrigue/backstabbing/power-dealing that, at the end of the day, is the show's strength.
@brg245
he went to visit mrs. draper in present day but flashbacks were interspersed with the visit. hope that helps.
I loved this episode, especially for the healing that Don/Dick seemed to be getting being with Anna Draper. What a wonderful soul and friend she seemed to be for him - very accepting and loving.
Cracked up over Peggy morphing into one of the boys with the drinking and smoking. The person who seemed the most pissed off over Peggy's new office was Harry Crane. Well, Harry got more $$, but Peggy got her own office. We'll see who goes farther in the end.
Peggy may end up being the one who will help Joan. Normally, Joan could handle her own problems, but I think this one (being raped) is only going to escalate and break her. Peggy's in a position to be magnanimous enough to possibly lend Joan a hand of support when she'll need it. It won't be coming from any men - it'll be another woman, and I think that woman would be Peggy for Joan. I think that's the first time I've ever seen Joan "cowed" by a man - it made me cry.
The first case tried for marital rape was in 1978 Rideout vs State of Oregon in which Rideout was found not guilty because forcible penetration was considered part of "marital privilege" or exempt from the definition of rape.
The only reason Betty bought Sally the riding boots is because Sarah Beth Carson is no longer a friend or her occasional riding partner anymore.
I don't think Don is going back to Sterling Cooper anytime soon. Just watched the scene with the hotrodders for the third time tonite. It's the present (for him and he's wearing a 60's type shirt), but he does mention he's looking for a job so I think he's leaving advertising for the time being. Even with his 12% Don would not have been able to affected the final vote. I think Duck has a few months to destroy things as head of Creative, and grind Bert and Roger under his heels before the 51% British owners go looking for Don Draper again. Remember, the advertisers may start crying like banshees if they end up hating how Duck Phillips does things in business.
zabadu,
I was a child in the 60s, too, and was in 5th grade when JFK was killed, which means I would have been about the same age as Sally back then. And it saddens me to say, but yes, some nice, attractive, educated suburban mothers did grab their kids by the hair, etc.; in my case, my mother shoved me barefoot and in pajamas out the front door and into the snow for being 'sassy.' It wasn't considered abuse, but discipline, just as what happened to Joan probably wouldn't have been considered rape by anyone in authority. Also like Sally, my father drank, cheated (these came a bit later), and occasionally used physical force on my mother (remember Don shoving Betty about 5 episodes back, saying something like, "With the day I've had, I could throw you out the window."?) Anyway, women and kids didn't have rights as we know them now. The show is doing a beautiful job of illustrating that.
Roger can be such a short-sighted fool. He's completely forgotten that the man who brought them this deal (Duck) was the one he just got through demolishing for asking for a partnership percentage.
And Roger doesn't think Duck isn't smarting from that, and may have ulterior motives? Where's Don the con, when you need him?
Roger, Bert, and Don are all going to "pay" for Roger's particular smart-ass, off the cuff putdown that he levied at Duck without second thoughts. Whew boy, bad day at black rock for Sterling Cooper. Duck has a BIG axe to grind especially with Roger and Don (if he ever comes back).
Love Don wading into the purifying waters while Bert is wading through all the numbers... both trying to find their futures...
Peggy's office is right beside Don's...
Peggy and Pete do seem to be moving into being equals (or at least much more so)... Peggy creative (barer of their son) and Pete financial - accounts, as he deals with his own lost family fortunes and how to work out his 'problem' of a wife who wants to adopt, when he already has a son... love the interwoven ironies there...
P
With Bert reluctantly going ahead with the deal for the sale, and his sister wanting to hear Don's views because she thinks he's insightful "about these things" AND the deal is only at the counter offer stage... the writers have left the door open for Don to come in late in the game and talk Bert and Alice out of the deal...
There is HOWEVER the logic of Don needing a serious rival at the agency for dramatic tension and if Duck is dumped at the 11th hour in season 2, then does Roger become the rival for Don in season 3? It was Pete in season one, then Duck... who's next?
Peggy and Don and Ken and Sal and Joan would be a great core for a rival agency to Sterling Cooper...
P
Lucky, I agree, Alice is racist. Plus talking around the help was not done. This is 1962 New York and I am sure they had something like a page six back then.
Jendalessan
You may be right..Betty could have had a miscarriage. Think about it... She had sex with Don at her Father's house just before he left on the California trip. After all that she returns to riding at the club, a lot? She might not have known she was pregnant. Which would explain why she was caught by surprise.
you know last season I was a supporter and defender of what i perceived to be an "emerging" person in the character of Betty....however this season i am not so sure any more...
... as a former child development professional ...i have to say that grabbing your child by the hair and forcing her into a closet IS NOT an appropriate method of discipline! I really think that Betty's character just in that momment "lost it"..
My sympathies to those of you who think that Betty's response to Sally's smoking episode was acceptable.
first, to bettymurielsarte, i love your name and does anyone else recognize the reference to a great sketch from the original monty python british comedy series of the early 70s?
on to business: the sale of the agency is not a "done deal" by any means. after the vote, bert instructed the attorney to prepare a counteroffer. legally, a counteroffer is a rejection of an offer. the potential buyer (the british firm) has no obligation to accept any counteroffer and the negotiations can simply stop - no deal! however, the previews could indicate that some "due diligence" is being conducted by the british - for example, they respond to the SC counteroffer by saying, ok, we'll pay your higher price, but only if the book of business is what we think it is - so the absence of the clearisil account, or any other lost account, is their way out of the deal.
Oooooohhhh I love the thought of Peggy, Don, Ken, Joan, and Sal with their own rival agency! It was great when someone told Peggy she should put on Don's pants while she was moving into Freddy's old office.....priceless. I feel sorry for Joan, I hope she nixes the engagement. That guy is SO WRONG for our Joanie. Roger was better.....lol......
Could someone please explain the part of the conversation between Alice and Bert Cooper where she says something like " Don't you want to go to Montana to see your cows?" and also something like "You ruined that young architect's life" and Bert says something like "I do love the cows." What the? Is Alice referring to a young Bert having a gay affair with an architect in Montana on a ranch before becoming the ad man Bert who later married "the late Mrs. Cooper."? I even watched this scene twice and wasn't sure what I was hearing. ALICE COOPER ROCKS THIS EPISODE!
Damaged Woman: No one in my world did that to children. You seem to think EVERYONE did.
Just because nuns, teachers, some mothers, some fathers pulled hair, slapped you with a ruler, whatever...doesn't mean it isn't ABUSE.
Yes, it happened. But that doesn't take away from the fact that it is abuse. Notice how one person (Tuberose) said her mother abused her, but she thought it was normal because her father abused her mother. It ISN'T normal behavior, which is why the law has cracked down so hard on it.
So please don't bring your "my mom pulled my hair" into here and say it wasn't abuse. It was. I agree with divayaya - I feel sorry for you.
Mike - the song was George Jones, Cup of Loneliness.
LOVED, BUT LOVED this episode. I too was in shock when Betty grabbed Sally by the hair and put her in the closet, and I agree with some posters, that If my mother ever caught me smoking at the age of 8, I think she would have done alot worse. I am by no means justifying what Betty did, but I think she cant handle the power which has been given to her. Like Helen said to her, "The hardest part is accepting that you are in charge" Betty cant accept it yet. When she heard Sally crying in the closet, she felt bad, so she opened it and let her out, and told her to do her homework and that she would forget the whole thing. Anna was a beautiful character, and she told Don to his face, people change you can change your habits, in which Don says no I cant, and she tells him yes you can, anybody can, you did, I think the last shot of Don being reborn was beautiful. He is comfortable in his Dick Whitman role, but not so much in the Don Draper role anymore. He was offered a new life by Anna, and he knows he screwed it up big time. I think he will go back to NYC a changed man, and will want to focus his new life with Betty and the children, rather than Sterling Cooper agency. Anna made him realize how much he loves his family, but its HIS DON DRAPER which is screwing it up. I think Betty would be so happy, and healthier if Don was Dick Whitman. I hope he confesses to her if not this season, then next season. I think they could both grow from there. And I think Betty is pregnant, and Joan might contemplate suicide but it wont happen.
This episode was riveting. I was on the edge, my heart was racing, and I was held breathless through most of the episode.
Don fixing the chair for Anna was sad in a way. Why couldn't he do that for Betty?
I had my hair and ponytail pulled exactly like that as a child. I wasn't thrown in the closet. Maybe Betty put her in there so she wouldn't hit her. When she told Sally that she had Don were having a disagreement she could of been really sadistic and emotionally abusive and told Sally that her daddy cheated on her mommy and had sex with another woman. Sally knows a lot for an eight year old and she would've understood.
There wasn't a scene showing Betty opening the suitcase. I guess she figured out where he was from the luggage tag? I don't think she knew about the business trip to Cal.
I wonder why Don didn't have a romantic relationship with Anna. Was it respect for the real Don Draper? Because she would've jumped on that like white on rice.
Great observation by some on the Virgin Mary image in the ad. Who did the artwork, was it Sal? Did Peggy direct him to draw it that way? I was wondering what the Popsicle guy was seeing that was familiar.
Why did, I think, Ken say that Peggy needed to get a new couch for her office? Was it because of Freddie wetting his pants? I didn't think he was on the couch at the time.
The new deal isn't a done deal with the merger. Bert Cooper told Roger to make a counter offer after the vote. Maybe Don will get back and nix the deal and Duck at the same time. I loved the diamonds on the doorknobs comment by Roger.
Loved Roger saying he didn't know which eyes to look at.
And, the book "Meditations in an Emergency". I don't think any of us thought he sent it to Anna. Glad that was cleared up.
I hated the scene with Joan. I wonder how Christina Hendricks felt about that scene. It must have been difficult to even play that scene. He was holding her head in that position, even though she would've looked away.
I loved Don walking into the ocean and cleansing himself of his sins. He'll return to start fresh and not cheat on Betty and she'll be the hellraiser and the tables will turn on him. At least he didn't walk on water, that would've been too much.
Was the Mountain King music played in season one? It seems familiar.
My On Demand hasn't worked since Hurricane Gustav and Charter is doing a poor job of determing how to fix it. Is all of season two still available on On Demand? When will the DVDs be available for sell? Do you think AMC will have a marathon and show the entire season two after the show is over?
I, too, am just so upset about what happened to Joan. Yes, it would be wonderful if she dumped him, but I think we are thinking with 2008 brains, not 1960's brains. The feminist movement has not yet gained momentum. Joan is a woman with a past, even if she does not speak of it - "Greg, remember, there was no before you...." or whatever she said, exactly. She has landed herself what society would consider a "good catch" - doctor, successful, good solid job, good looking, etc. Joan has a history of relationships (at least one that we know of) with married men that are, of course, unavailable. Remember when she was passed over for a man when she had done such a good job on the television work? Joan is savvy, and smart, and knows how the world works in the 60's. There is no way she is gonna just dump the doctor. In her mind, he was "rude" but not criminal. It wasn't a crime to rape your wife or girlfriend back then, as distasteful as this is for us now.
Roger is not going to swoop in and save her. This isn't Cinderella, and he is no one's Prince Charming. JMHO but the only saving grace I can see for Joan is a developing friendship with Peggy. As Peggy progresses and does well, maybe Joan will be inspired to try to move up in her career, and thus find the strength to stand on her own. But really, this is the 60s' What woman, besides Peggy, wanted a long-term career? Marrying well and being the perfect homemaker was the absolute ideal.
Wow wow wow - loved this episode!
I had the oddest sensation when Dick/Don was first confronted by Anna and he said "what are you going to do to me?" that he was echoing words he'd said as a child, perhaps before being beaten by his stepfather or stepmother. There was someting in the tone that sounded more like a fearful child than grown man.
Anybody else notice the homemade windchimes on Anna's porch made of forks and spoons?
Perhaps Alice Cooper's oblique reference to "what you did to that poor architect" in Wyoming was an allusion to someone like Frank Lloyd Wright (though he only built one house in Cody Wyoming) - Wright's buildings have a sort of Zen feel to them that would appeal to Cooper. Bert has a cattle ranch (he does love his cows, lol) - probably also an investment but something he enjoys. I do not see him retiring to his ranch any time soon. I think there will be a tussle for SC - and Coop enjoys the game too much to walk away.
I *SO* liked Anna and her relationship with Dick Whitman. She allows him to be who he realy is. So sad he still feels on the outside looking in of his own life. She's right in that people are as happy as they choose to be, regardless of circumstances.
Can you see him living in California, on the beach, building/selling hotrods while Betty remains in New York and the kids shuttle back and forth (school year with Mom, summer and holidays with Dad)? If he does get his $500,000+ from the sale of SC I can see him setting Betty up financially, and maybe giving Peggy seed money to start her own business, Olson and Associates (Sal, Ken, maybe Harry, Freddy, and Joan) - like giving Midge the $5K check.
My first thought about "Mommy, you're bleeding!" was an early miscarriage.
Pete's an ass, period. I hope Chauncey enjoyed the roast chicken thrown so cavalierly out the window - and that some poor soul down below wasn't knocked unconscious by the china platter falling from above. Trudy should file for divorce, now, while she can still find someone who actually wants children, even if adopted. I hope his father-in-law makes it clear to Roger or Bert that it was Pete who walked away from the Clearasil account - and let Pete explain why. I hope his high-handed lord-and-master-of-this-house attitude bites him in the butt.
And you go Peggy! That little copier twit was the last straw. Kudos to Roger for giving her the office because she's only one with the balls to ask for it.
@Zabadu: DamagedWoman is right - that was pretty common parenting style in the '60s. The hair pulling would not even be considered abusive.
- the song was George Jones, Cup of Loneliness.
Hi Folks
Does anyone know the name of the song used at the end of episode 12, where Don is in the surf?
gotta know. Thanks, Mike
Alice Cooper is not necessarily a lesbian. What she is, is a woman of mature years who lives alone and doesn't need a nurse. So she has a "companion," a friend somewhere near her own age who will go places with her. Think a much older Sarah Beth with a much older Betty going to lunch or shopping or to a show.
Don's not sleeping with Anna, mostly because he sees her as a woman deserving of infinite respect as well as someone who knows or he'll tell everything about himself. With Anna, he's only Dick Whitman, a real person, not a construct. She would probably respond favorably if he made a pass but he would expect he to make the first move.
One question though. When they met in the prior episode at the car dealership, why did she take so long to realize he wasn't the real Don Draper if she already knew he'd used her Don's serial number? They hadn't been apart that long. Or had they? Since she said he really wanted her sister.
I loved the way Roger didn't hesitate when Peggy asked for the office. "It's yours." Next question. Total validation of her status. But now she's taking up bad habits - keeping Scotch in a drawer and smoking.
Great to see Pete, the guy we love to hate, back in action with Trudy. On the other hand, he does show total backbone with Daddy-in-law. Big time. Even if it does cost him and SC the Clearasil account. I wonder if the account will come back but with someone else as account exec for it.
One phone call between Don and Betty, telling him he can come back home and Don will be back in NY.
True, Betty pulling Sally by the hair and shoving her into the closet is not recommended child-rearing practice. But Sally was smoking her cigarettes! (Which, by the way, she probably got from Don because he gets them for free from the client, but that's another matter.)
Back then it was called discipline or punishment or simply "getting his/her attention," not abuse. Abuse is a relatively recent word in that context as far as the general public is concerned. Thanks, Dr. Phil, Oprah, Phil Donahue, Sally Jessie et al.
Hair pulling is painful but not half as damaging as verbal abuse or a guilt trip. Putting the Salamander in a dark closet if she's not claustrophobic - call it a time-out location on the main floor, reducing distractions, leaving the kid with nothing to do but think. Could be a lot worse.
Besides, it got Sally to talk honestly with Betty about how she felt about Daddy not being home. That Betty had not "shared" the real reason why Daddy wasn't home left the field wide open for Sally's imagination. And she had no trouble coming up with causes that seemed reasonable to her.
All in all, not a good day/episode for Betty. I'll bet she didn't even notice Sally was wearing her lipstick.
The name of the song is up in the thread. Several times.
I can't believe the amount of you who say pulling hair was a "common parenting style". My God. I was raised in the 60s and no one I knew had parents like that. You all seem to still believe that it's acceptable behavior. You scare me.
The poster who commented about nuns and hiding their pregnancy under the convent reminded me of my next door neighbors when I was a child. They were fundamentalist Christians and would tell me and my siblings that the local Priests had a underground tunnel to the convent for visits.. They also told us to stay indoors during Passover as our Jewish neighbors liked to kill young Chrisitian children in a secret ritual. Religious bigotry and misinformation is alive, well and generally accepted in the U.S. Libelous or hateful comments toward anyone's religion shouldn't be tolerated.
To the poster who said they hoped Joan wouldn't be saved by Roger...I agree. I hope the females in the show begin to stand alone and not look to a man to "save" them. It seems to have only caused them alot of grief.
I think Anna is like a mother to Dick/Don the only thing close to a mother
and Joan
I doubt she will break up with her fiance because it wouldn't look good ... image was everything back in those days
Betty is the one I worry about becoming suicidal
Dick/Don is in a constant dreamworld because he hates himself and
if you hate yourself you can't love someone else
SMP65: Yes, and all nuns are abusive as well. I spent my childhood around nuns and parents and never had one day of what others say is "normal parenting behavior" for the 60s.
Despite some good lines, I didn't "love" this episode, but (as always) I will watch it again tonight to see what I missed.
The flashback Don has pouffy hair and a "D A" in the back so I believe the hot rodder scene was present day. That freaks me out because of Don saying he needed a job. I don't want Don to stay in Cali.
I felt so badly for Joan--I hope she does dump that guy but I believe women took even more abuse back then than they do now because of even more limited options.
I'm glad Paul got dumped--he is SO irritating and fake.
I found the whole Anna-Don relationship a little *too* implausible. I'd like to see more of that to understand it better.
I guess the locked drawer probably has info about Anna but I wonder why Don would think it safe to leave information in such an easily accessible place. I mean, I can't believe Betty hasn't forced the drawer open yet--it's not like she cares if Don knows she opened it.
Lucky Strike--yes, I believe Alice is probably a racist but I have to tell you I find your comment, "it’s cute how you white folks refuse to acknowledge those attitudes even existed. (and still do)." offensive.
Too many posts! But I have to add a couple of thoughts:
1. There were good and bad (abusive) parents in the 60s just like now. And catching an 8-year-old smoking would probably push most mothers' buttons.
2. Believe it or not, we actually had tampons in the 60s and also slim sanitary pads.
I didn't understand the plot purpose of showing/having Joan getting raped by her fiancee. In previous episodes/scenes you already established that the guy is an asshole. The scene really annoyed and angered me.
It just seems you're trivializing rape in the same why you trivializing drinking, in the "it was the 60's everyone drank on the job; it was the 60's and men raped women". I just got the sense you're just threw the rape scene into the episode more for the shock value for audience and as some of the show's critics have suggested the show really about a twisted male fantasies. And isn't that why Joan's Fiancee force himself on her in first place? "Fix me a drink. C'mon I've seen the movies, it's what that what they do all day, isn't it?" Joan's Fiancee has an image that all the executives drink and force themselves on their secretaries so he wants to act on that impluse too.
I'm also finding it hard to believe Joan's character can have so much control over the men in the office yet be complete subservient to her asshole fiancee: "honey, aren't you going to get my drink", comment when Joan's is trying to tell him about her day in a previous episode.
She certainly set the boundres with her affair with Roger Sterling, she knew Kinsey wasn't right for her and dumped him, but she's so smitten by this jack-ass she can't see the abuse? C'mon, where's the Joan who called Kinsey a phony for dating a black woman because he thought it would make him appear hip and improve his faux artist image?
However, congratz on making me angery enough about a TV show about fictional characters, in fictional sitituations and get me to write a comment.
OK, I'm at the end, but don't know where my post will wind up!
Did anyone else catch Bert's comment about Alice's companion? Is she a lesbian?
And the humor of Alice Cooper as her name was too funny!!
I didn't understand the Montana, cows, archtitect (sp?) comments from Alice to Bert.
I don't like Alice because of the way she acted toward Bert's waiter (I can't remember the gentleman's name). What a racist bitch....but, again, early 1960's.
This is way off, but, did anyone see Bobby appear in a Huckleberry Hound Halloween mask when Betty was pulling her closet move with Sally?
The reason I mention the Halloween mask is we must be getting close to October 1962. I don't know if that was the writers' way of giving us a time frame for the show?
Betty's putting Sally in the closet reminded me of the scenes in the movie "Carrie" where her wack nut mother put her in the closet.
Congrats to the Maddicts who talked about the sex scene with Betty and Don at her father's home.
I really thought it was a dream.
But, now I'm think it must have happened, she became pregnant, and in the scene where Sally noticed Betty was bleeding, she was having an early miscarriage, which is usually just a heavy period.
My 2 cents for this week...
It's 10:44 eastern standard time ... this time stamp is so messed up people are asking the same questions , making the same statements over and over its all attributed to this screwed-up time stamp. This post here will be skewed an hour back.
Bocaratonfan - I was thinking the same thing about the merger deal. This is only the first step. There are many things that can nix it. Thanks for explaining the process so succinctly.
i was raised in the 60s and while mom went after us with wooden spoons or dad's belt from time to time (mostly we just ran away from her!), she never pulled my hair. i do recall the neighbor mom pulling and jerking her daughter's hair while she fixed it before sending the girl off to school. i remember being shocked and thought this was really mean. this same mom smoked like a chimney, wore her babydoll pajamas outside with her bleached blond hair in rollers, worse sky blue eyeshadow, and drank coca cola all day starting in the morning.
I think the whole MOMMY YOUR BLEEDING was indeed not a pregnancy, but just a normal period from a female. But I think the symbolism here is that Betty is known as a child throughout season 1 and a little bit in this season. I think her getting her period, in this episode symoblized that she is now a woman. She isnt a little girl anymore. She confronted Sally about Don might not coming home and telling her honestly and lovingly, that if he doesnt come home that they will still be okay. I also think that Betty buying her riding boots is an indication that Betty wants to get to know her daughter, and vice versa. Now that Sarabeth is out of the picture at the stables, atleast Betty will be spending time with her daughter, who I think Sally wants to be like, hence the cigaretts and the lipstick. I think Sally idolizes her mother just like she idolizes her father. She wants everything to be perfect but in reality she knows it isnt, hence she lashed out at her mother, in which we see Betty's mean and domineering demeanor melt away. She knows that kicking Don out of the house is not only hurting her, but is also hurting her children. I too think that if she calls Don to come back, he will be there in a heartbeat. He is "hopefully" a changed man with his baptism in the sea, but I just hope Betty starts to understand him like Anna understood him. What Don/Dick needs to do is be honest with Betty, and from there they can grow. I think Betty could still be preggers as in the teaser for next week, we see her talking to I am guessing Francine about an abortion (again I am only speculating, or she could be saying she doesnt know if she wants Don back) but then we see her looking at a department store with mannequins, and I saw a baby bump. Maybe she is indeed preggers, or she is looking at the store, as she has to find a job if Don doesnt come back, and she has to support herself and the kids.
I thought the baptism song was beautiful at the end, sorry for those who can't appreciate. It's true, a woman had no credibility in a rape case, she was just liable for further humiliation, and in public. It wasn't till the 1970s in NY state that an agency was set up to deal with child abuse - prior to that it was handled by small private Children's Aid Societies. The Biblical "spare the roid and spoil the child" still informs this culture. Women and children had no rights or credibility at all. It really was a (white) man's world then - but I don't think the remark about Cleveland was racist - I think it was to assure her that they were safe to converse, their conversation would stay in that room. When I heard teh remark to Roger about how amny children I thought of all the random boinks in his life, though I now see of course they meant Jane. I would like to see Joan contented, respected and loved. I think Betty and Joan might be getting set up for the Women's movement - and Peggy might be a kind of leader in her way. The new setup for Don seems to be he loves his wife and children but not the life they live - that he feels at home where he doesn't have to fear being found out - I really like Anna and am so relieved that he didn't dog that connection away. Naybe that will be his open conflict. Amazing how John Hamm's expressions alone can take him from one age to 20 years later.
Next season, I think that maybe Don, being freshly "baptized" will try to start his marriage anew — fully committed to Betty, while Betty may be the one stepping out. She seems ready to explode. I think she's bleeding in more ways than one and needs change/relief. I don't think Don and Betty will ever get it together. Poor Sally and Bobby...
Joan cannot marry that creep now. What's she going to do? They can't get rid of the character via suicide, because she's too good for the show to lose. Maybe she'll try and fail.
I think Betty had a miscarriage. She was holding her stomach at the end of that scene, as if she was cramping. Or maybe she finds out she is pregnant, based on the preview for next week where she cries, "I don't know what to do. I can't go through with this." BTW, I read an interview this weekend where January Jones says that Betty does not enjoy being a mother. That's been so clear to see. It's a shame that she was more maternal with that creepy kid, Glen.
maddfann, thanks! i think this proposed "deal" can easily blow up and dash roger's hopes of being more liquid and therefore more able to "buy off" mona in the divorce negotiations (what will happen to young jane if roger's unable to extricate himself qyuickly from his marriage? will she wait for him?) bert really doesn't want to sell the company anyway. and it's immaterial to his obviously very wealthy and clever older sister. (btw, we now know that the sister "helped" bert start the firm (with roger's dad) with seed money in exchange for an ownership interest as a "silent" partner).
we also now know a few other things:
that roger has been with the company for 20 years (since 1942). he must have been away during the war as a naval officer, however. also, he was married to mona long before he started working for the company (they've been married 25 yrs, since 1937). and roger was introduced to mona by bert's wife, "the late mrs. cooper" possibly when roger and mona were very young; he's been with mona for 30 yrs, as he told jane last episode. that would mean they met in 1932. possibly roger and mona have known each other since high school and married right after roger's graduation from college.
we also now know that bert indeed feels morally obligated to "take care of roger", probably because of a promise to his now-dead partner, roger's late dad.
also, if the partners sell the company, they no longer own a controlling interest in the new one, and the only way they will keep their jobs is to have employment contracts with the new firm. these will be separate from the contract to purchase their partnerhip interests in the firm. the buyer/new owner may not want to keep them on after the takeover.
Great episode ! For the first time Don has shown respect and even awe for a woman. Anna is a true earth mother for those that are old enough to remember the term. She loves and respects Don for whats on the inside and not the outside. Don (or Dick) is totally truthfull and open around her. There is hope for the man. Now I think I understand why Don helps Peggy so much. I think in her he see's another Anna, Maybe there is a chance for him yet. My guess is that Don will head home soon and become more open with his wife and maybe he'll include Anna in the picture. We will see. Or maybe he will move out to the Coast and use his money to start some type of Ad Company in California.
I felt so bad for Joan. Her chauvinist fiancé was probably still upset that she tried to get on top the night before and then finding out that Roger knew so much about her personally could have set him off. It’s probably not the first time it’s happened, since she was disassociating by staring off to the side as she was being raped. Unfortunately she might still go through with the marriage due to the societal expectations of that era. She might endure the poor treatment from that beast because of the prestige of becoming a doctor’s wife. Plus she’s in her mid thirties now so she’s probably wanted to get married for a while. I hope she confides in Peggy and is able to get some support and encouragement to regain her strength.
Can someone tell me the name of the song playing during the final credits of episode 12? Thanks!
Chesterton - I agree with you. I don't think the remark was racist, but that they trusted Cleveland and can talk freely around him.
I also love how Alice pointedly mentions Roger's kids, as in reference to Jane and possibly their kids as well, if they do get married. Hope we see more of Alice; she's a sharp cookie!
I love the way the show is written. For all my "opinions" about and reactions to what I see every week, I just love that the writers capture "life". None of us live in a vacuum or in black and white. I have to fight with myself sometimes so that I don't look at Don and the rest through my current prism (2008). I was around back then and much of it resonates. I made it through all those eras and am still here - and I think I might even be sane.
Someone much earlier on the thread commented on the fact that "Don was married to the first Mrs. Draper!" Just to clarify, Dick Whitman did not marry her, the real Don Draper did. Since Dick took Don't identity, he would have had to divorce her to marry anyone else, because "on paper" he was now Don Draper.
Okay, I liked this episode a lot better than last week's. It's good to get this background information on Don. However, they didn't need last week's shenanigans to get him there. The fact that he was in California would have been enough reason for him to call her. All that stuff with the traveling richburies was completely unneccessary... and boring.
That said, it's time to get Don back to SC already! I like seeing this side of him, but he really isn't fully Don Draper unless he spends some time at his office. The development of his character in tonight's episode was good, but enough is enough. Back to the office, Mr. Draper!!
Don't know where to begin. All the posts are right on. I hated the scene with Joan/Dr. Dread. Joan tuned out of the situation, because she wants the dignity of marriage nio matter what. The popsicle ad reminded me of the Last Supper. Note the circle (halo) behind the mother's head. Betty is endorsing checks with Don;s signature. I have to go back and see where the check is from. I have already watched the encore presentation and will watch the episode again to make sure I didn't miss anything. Glad the mystery was solved as to whom Don mailed to book to. How long would you say Don took care of Anna?? When he fixed her chair, I died laughing.. To be continued...
Ok yeah, the whole thing with Joan and the good doctor seems like the writers are trying a bit too hard to stir things up about. In all honesty, I havent been crazy about these past two episodes. Course, I didnt start watching the show until season two, episode two... and I was hooked. But these last two episodes have been slightly disconcerting in a not so interesting way, but a way that leaves you feeling uncomfortable and confused. The whole don/dick thing threw me for a loop because I didnt witness that whole situation. The biggest questionmark was the don/dick chrsistmas scene?? I mean, im guessing that was a flashback but were they living together or did he just come to visit..? LA or NYC?
I hope this show doesnt end anytime soon. I love it. I wish I could watch season one online somewhere
continued...I have been taking notes during the program and find it easier to keep up. Betty, Trudy and Sally are truly "daddy's girls." I had trouble distinquishing between current and flashback scenes with Don and Anna. Thanks for the haircut tip. IMO there has to be a final clash between Duck and Don. I think Roger will find out that Jane was using him to get close to Don; with Don away what's going to happen? I truly hope that the Barretts are out of the picture, and also hope that the Jet Set never shows up again. Great comments and worth the time it took to get through them. See ya
@Auburn Annie: I also thought the architect reference was about Frank Lloyd Wright. Do you know where a mecca exists for Frank Lloyd Wright architecture? You'll never guees. Arizona? No. Pennsylvania? No. BUFFALO, NY! I'm not making this up! Go to the city's website and check it out. I was amazed!!!!
Mad Men without Don/Dick is like Mick Jagger without lips! Ya dig?
Once again everybody, Betty has just come out of Psychoanalysis. She is not cutting anyone, including her own kids, denial slack. With Betty, you either deal with reality or she isn't going to tolerate it.
Angelboots – I think the California episode was very instrumental in getting Don/Dick to where he is now - soul-searching. It got him to realize how empty all that casual/freely available sex was. I think it also made him understand that the grass wasn’t greener on the other side re: his wife and also his lifestyle in NY (vs. being rich). He was looking for something better and thought he threw it all away. He needed to see the error of his ways. Anna gives him what he needs most now – support and unconditional love. He needed an “earth mother” - after all, he never had a real one.
I liked this episode because it showed a more human and compassionate side of Don/Dick. It’s great that he was supporting Anna all these years and that he could have a respectful relationship with her without making it sexual. It was also nice to see Don all giddy in that flashback when he told Anna about wanting to marry Betty. It showed that he really does have the capacity to love.
@Daavos: Uh, I just read your remarks to my Mom, and we'd like to know, 1. Are you male or female, and 2. Did you write these remarks at 9:42 AM from your place of employment?
Are we going to find out that the real Don Draper has some skeletons in his closet? After all, he wanted to marry Anna's sister. Is the name cursed? Just wondering...hmmm.
@Ritt First time I've after laughed out loud at a poster's remarks. Very good. Saved the BEST (lipstick remark) for the end. Very clever. Good chuckle. Please keep posting.
great comments!
I'm interested to know more about the 'architect situation' that Alice mentioned to Bert. Also, if the merger goes through, I suspect that Duck will be found out as the instigator, and his disloyalty to Roger and Bert will get him kicked to the curb.
as for Don's stay with Anna, great! loved seeing him as a fully three-dimensional character, and I've been dying to get more info on the post-war-pre-Betty years. good to know that he's had at least one person as a constant throughout all of it, who seems to want nothing from him but his happiness...
I predict that next week's finally will end with Don on the phone to Betty saying 'we need to talk, there's something I need to tell you...'
I suspect that Joan will stay with the doctor, at least for a little while, as it seems that date rape was not considered 'non-consensual' at the time [correct me if I'm wrong] - I think she simply didn't feel that she has a choice if she wants to be married. She seems to see the clock ticking...also the interaction with Peggy made me think that Joan sees a possible friendship, although she is now clearly a subordinate. Joan sort of broke my heart this episode. hope she ultimately gets out of her engagement, but I think this one can go either way.
I don't think Betty is pregnant or miscarrying, she simply got her period - I took it to be a symbol of the fact that, although she is buckling up and trying to get a handle on her unmanageable world, there are still things that she can't control.
and I'm happy that Pete stood up to Trudy and her father. I've never liked her, what's with the running to daddy because her husband won't adopt with her? I'm sure I'm alone in this, but I actually liked Pete more this episode. Sure, he's acting like a ...whatever...but still, that whole family is cornering him every way possible, and never considering what he may want. he's a weasel and all...righty...but still, she's a spoiled little 'keep up with the joneses' princess.
hope to see more of Anna.
I think Don's real passion is cars not advertising.
I thought the rape thing was not real. Afterward, Joan came out of the office as though nothing happened and the boy friend just stood there. I thought she fantasized the whole scene because he was not interested the night before. I did have a problem with her acting like a rapee instead of enjoying it. Makes no sense.
I said it before and I''ll say it again Betty got pregnant by somebody, stable guy, mechanic or whoever and jumped on Don's bones to make it look like he is the father!! No? We' ll see
The remark to Roger about his "children" included his baby-kins lover. Funny! I loved it!
Don did not frown in this episode. I think he has had it with power and advertising.
I really liked this episode but it played out predictably. They made it so mysterious with the phone call at the end of the last episode when it was just the character from the one flashback of the season. All I'm saying is that they could have revealed more about her earlier to debunk the mystery of the other person and focus on the mystery of don's self and how will he come through on the other side of this journey. The concept of the self this season focuses on is extremely fascinating because its not argumentative but expressive.
When Anna tells Don "i understand if you dont want to talk about it" was she referring to something other than their divorce?
When does Dick become Don? we see it the christmas eve flash back that he still is very much Dick in character, when does he change into Don, the secretive and determined exec?
Good Day everyone!
I'm new to this forum and to the show, but I have really been liking what I've seen so far. I haven't viewed Season 1, but I have seen most of Season 2 -- I can't believe there is a finale next week already!
In any case, it was great to see the 'human' side of Don/Dick in Sunday's episode. I loved how his face lit up when he was telling Mrs. Draper about his initial meeting of Betty. The happiness and joy in his demeanor was just amazing (and shocking to me, as Don is usually stoic).
It also 'redeemed' him in my eyes (just a bit) that he has been financially taking care of Mrs. Draper all of these years. She's a wonderful woman; I don't know if I would strike up a friendship with a man who stole my husband's identity! Obviously, she is a dear and trusted friend/confidant for Don -- someone who is grounded and doesn't judge him. I think that is why he is so close with her.
It's too bad that he is so happy in Cali - he obviously can't stay there forever as he does have responsibilities back home (work/family). He seems to be able to be free and the last scene with him walking in the ocean, symbolizes (to me at least) his awakening, and feeling/being 'free/clean' while there in California.
I am SO SHOCKED about Joan's fiancee and what he did to her. Absolutely disgusting! :o( Poor woman.
Wonderful show indeed!!! I can't wait to see what happens during the finale next week and I am looking forward to Season 3 like all of you are.
Have a great day! :)
@florenceknoll: I don't mean to be unkind to a new viewer, but if you missed Season One, then you are missing everything, and nothing will truly be clear to you, or bite you as hard. Saying you didn't understand the Don/Dick thing, is like saying you're watching "Superman" and you don't understand what Clark Kent has to do with the story.
As much as I liked Don carefree and in the surf, I still want Big Alpha Dog Don runnin' "thangs!" He can be written as enlightened yet not de-balled! The MM writers are that smart and talented! The wussification of Don will not be a pleasure to watch!
Posted 1:12 PM EST
I'd love to embrace the kinder, gentler Don who is good to Anna but it is very hard to reconcile with his treatment of his brother. Does not tell Anna what happened....
I have to go back to previous episodes to see if Freddy Rumson's door was pink! I don"t remember. Way to go, Peggy. I think Pegs will be the one to help Joan out of her quagmire.
I hated the scene with Joan too. I don't think she'll end up having a Marilyn ending though.
I think that she'll end up leaving Dr. Rape and be with who she's MEANT to be with...Roger Sterling.
I mean...he and Jane are such an ODD couple!
I've thought for quite a white that Betty's mother was physically and verbally abusive. She seems to cover for her mom extensively, even as she recounts hateful episodes (the psychiatrist called her on it and told her she hated her mom). And unless you make a conscious choice to parent differently -- well, you teach as you've been taught. I also think back to the night she wanted Don to discipline Bobby -- "would you be the man you are today if your father didn't beat you?"
500,000.00 in 1962 had about the same buying power as $3,518,000.00 in 2008 according to
http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm.
Don will be a very rich man when he returns to Sterling Cooper. I wonder how it will all play out?
Sally didn't have a lot of fear in her voice. She knew she was naughty but probably did it to engage her mother. Better negative attention than none at all.
Help. Can someone tell me why did Sheila break up with Paul? Also was anything discussed about what happened on their bus trip down south?
@jendalessan.Way up on this thread you commented about Pete and I agree. Most of the time I find Pete to be the villian,the one in the office you love to hate. He redeemed himself by putting his overbearing,meddling father-in-law in his place.I think this will come back and bite Pete in this ass when Cooper and Roger find out why they lost Clearisil. Trudy and Pete need to divorce ASAP and end this charade of a marriage. I actually think Pete and Peg would be more compatible as a couple...
I agree w/ other posters that the Don/Anna connection is a real treat to watch.Don allowed himself to be vulnerable and he probably showed more depth as a person because he had nothing to hide from Anna.I'd love to see Don come clean with Betty,claim back the Dick Whitman name and relocated the family to Cali. Don has the spirit of an artist,I can see him and the family living in Carmel.As an aside,I loved the fork and spoon windschimes at Anna's house.So 60's kitsch!
It was so distrubing to watch the date rape scene.I wanted Joan to run like hell and never look back.I hope she realizes the mistake she's made and kicks him to the curb.
It's interesting to me to see how fired up people get about disclipline in the 60's vs. now. Although Betty might have gone over the top when she caught Sally smoking,she didn't cause injury.I don't condone hair pulling,but she later apologized and she didn't lock her in the closet. Betty's stressed and having to single parent her kids for the first time. We tend to look at this show through 2008 eyes instead of viewing it through the context of the era,early 1960's.
I survived a couple years of Catholic school and they don't play around.If you smart off and disrupt the classroom,you will suffer a consequence.Same thing at home...I got the strap from my Dad, I wasn't abused,I was discliplined and I didn't do it again.Most of the kids in my neighborhood received some minor form of punishment,none of us were totured and we outside playing the next day.My grandmother's ultimate punishment was to make us drink Castor Oil if we were caught talking dirty(swearing).
JOAN: The worst case scenerio will be that the doctor rape in the office also impregnated her (if there was no use of condoms/birth control), and she'll have to marry that bastard. Of course, Joan does go to the OB/GYN who is dispensing the "pill" (but I don't know if early contraceptive pills worked that well), and she would certainly have to hide it from that creep.
Don't think Joan would EVER turn to Roger for help in this instance. It would be an admission of making the wrong choice - Joan has too much pride. Another woman might end up helping Joan, if it comes to that, and I think it'd be Peggy. Peggy is maturing, and seems to have a lot more compassion, empathy and forgiveness for people's f--k-ups (herself, Don, Pete, Freddy) of any of the characters at Sterling Cooper. And, I hope she will help Joan, who steered her wrong from her very first day at Sterling Cooper.
Anna, was quite the person, wasn't she? Not only understanding, compassionate, loving but also an individualist. The beach bungalow, music lessons, tarot cards, unmarried (if I understood it right, she'd recently been living with a guy who she'd kicked out as she told Don) - really just living free. What a grounded, rule-bending anchor for Don/Dick to have in his life. But Anna let it be known he wasn't paramount in her thoughts, although she obviously cared very much for him, but could let him go and have a life free of her. Kind of a shame, because he didn't seem to want to let go of her in his life (the Christmas scene), but I suppose it had to be.
The scene with Joan really upset me. There's no way they will end her character with a suicide. No way.
I think she'll eventually come to her senses and end it with the Dr. She needs to be with Roger Sterling -- They are MEANT to be together.
He and Jane are such an odd couple.
Oh, and wouldn't it be funny if Pete and Trudy raised Peggy/Pete's child?
Joan and the doc: The doctor has serious emotional problems. Neither he nor Joan are sexual neophytes but, rather, are sexually experienced: in the bed scene he's not "just tired" and he's not put off by her "getting on top" -- he is impotent. And this problem would nag at him and make him question his "manhood" -- it's not the first time this has happened to him. He is not impotent in the scene in Draper's office, far from it. He doesn't know for sure that Joan has had sex with anyone @ SC, but he may suspect it. However, that is not why he rapes Joan. True, there is something in the atmosphere that turns hims on, but he is a bully and a guy who gets off by hurting women and playing mind games with them. His behavior triggered something deep in Joan. I see the flowers being left behind as not just her simply forgetting them in her upset state of mind (and she is terribly upset, but puts on a good front as always -- she is a master at masking her emotions). The roses symbolize the doctor and she has emotionally rejected him and left him behind, whether or not she realizes it yet.
My "two-cents" LOL
I am beginning to see that the confidence we all THOUGHT Joan possessed, now merely turns out to being a facade, I am sad to say. Or it has simply crumpled in the face of the prospective finace who just happens to have the title of Thorasic Surgeon -- many women do fall for the title.
We got a peep into her "Achilles Heel" - the episode where her driver's license was displayed on a bulletin board in the break room of the office. Recall...?
We see that she is unfortunately, as are many females, vulnerable where her age is concerned. She is, at this stage a 33 year old, unamarried woman, in the 1960's no less; she's been involved with the married boss with no prospects of anything else than remaining his mistress.
That rape scene said a lot about her degree of self-esteem, especially afterwards in the office and that night later, when the 2 of them were in bed. He definitely has the profile of an abuser, afraid of confidence, especially sexual confidence, in women.
Somehow, I think the sho is going to take the direction of our Joanie going for the abused wife symdrome. :````( Oh we.... keeps the drama alive and well.
RobinDee
Again on Joan and the doc: what turns him on in the office setting is that he can debase Joan in the place where she is the reigning queen, the most powerful female in the place. He degrades her by 1)raping her, (coincidentally?), and 2) by doing so in the office of one of the most powerful men in the firm. This way, the doc builds himself up in his own emotionally twisted mind.
@ bettymurielsartre: You got it! Ken is the looker with the published short story under his belt. Sal's got a crush on him, and Peggy is becoming his "pal". He can afford to be magnanimous!
Does anyone remember who Pete punched-out last season over that "lobster tail" remark, concerning Peggy's weight gain?
@Jack Carlson: LaurieB. and I were born in 1956, so we were in elementary school, too. What year were you and your wife born? I don't think anyone born after 1958 has any memories from this time period. Your Dad was activated during the Cuban Missle Crisis? Wow, that must have been so scary. I'd love to sit and talk with your Dad for, like, 3 days!
@lurker: that was really disgusting and unnecessary. I hope I never date you.
I am just a little surprised by Anna's reaction when Don/Dick told her that her husband had been killed in combat. She didn't press him for details or an explanation. If I had been Anna, I would have wanted to know much more.
RobinDee et al - I think you judge Joan's handling of the rapist criminal cardio-thoracic surgeon kind of out of context. You clearly cannot imagine what it was like before we had the shoulders of Gloria Steinem and the like to stand on. You just cannot understand what a non-person a woman could be, how invisible to the world outside the POV of a (white) man's needs. Hiw without rights and remedies, how without access to financial opportunity. You just cannot imagine!!! Aging took every pleasure away from her - and female sexuality was punished. Her options diminished and his rape would not have been seen as a crime - women were all seductresses and men had no responsibility (to this day guys who knock up teen girls, "of age" or not are not required to do anything, but the females have to either carry and raise the baby, or put the baby up for adoption or abort it - ) You just cannot imagine what it was like even when you watch this show every week. Watch Far From Heaven, too. But you still won't understand, I suppose.
I think that Pete needs to dump Trudy. She's a spoiled brat, and he's never going to be happy with her. He has already told her that he's not interested in adopting. Her reaction? To make an appointment with an adoption agency and tell others (such as Pete's secretary) about it so that he'll feel pressured to do what she wants. He tells her again that he doesn't want to adopt. Her reaction? To tell her father and get him to pressure Pete to do what she wants. I actually had some respect for Pete this week because he was willing to take a hit at work to stand up for himself on a personal matter.
That SOB. I feel so bad for Joan. Its obvious she could play with the big boys just like Peggy. Joan was so good at the T.V. job and she saw Peggy get her own office. That look on Joans face when Peggy walked in to the office feeling triumphant. It was heartbreaking.
While I am a huge fan of the show, my wife cannot stand to watch it. We were both in elementary school in those days, the early 60's. This show apparently brings back painful memories for her. I find it fascinating though. My father was in the Army, and activated during the Cuban missile crisis. I suspect that will become a topic on the show soon.
PS I did hope Joan would be able to reach and grab taht lamp and hit the bastard on top of her!
Thanks, bocaratonfan! BTW, wouldn't Michael Palin have been a great choice to play Charles Shaughnessy's character? He could've done it like an uppercrust Luigi Vercotti!
/montypython
Joan. Poor Joan! The end of the episode a few weeks back where she's rubbing her shoulder from the pain of her bra strap was very symbolic. She's hit up against the limits of the traditional female role and it hurts. I like Joan. I think her earlier bitchiness is, much like Betty's, a subconscious response to feeling hemmed in by a role. Roger can't save Joan; that would be putting her right back into some other confining role, which isn't what she wants, even if she isn't clear on what she wants yet. And Roger won't save Joan. He's too selfish to save Joan.
Roger is so deluded about himself. But was there societal awareness of "the mid-life crisis" in those days?
Alice is racist and classist, and it only took one line to show that. I knew women like her as a child (I'm a 70s kid, myself). Crusty old bats, but they could be really funny because, no, they didn't hold their tongues. I think the reference to the architect in Montana is that Bert has a ranch he never goes to with cows and everything, but probably keeps an architect on tenterhooks in remodeling it. He seems pretty raring to go for a man who's pretty old and probably sicker than he looks. I like Bert.
So if Don goes home, what is he going to tell Betty about himself? If I'm understanding correctly, her family background's pretty posh. Remember her father ranted about him "having no people." I can't help but think, seeing how that concept plays out in various story lines, that the idea of being aligned with the "right" people (in the family, at work, etc.) is a very important subtext of the series, what with Pete and his family, Joan probably about to marry the rapist, Peggy strengthening her ties to SC management, Duck's ability to call on old friends, etc.
I wouldn't put it past Betty to throw Don's origins in his face in her anger and confusion over her own life, as well as her hurt over Don's transgressions. She seems to do the damage first, and only later realize the consequences.
Poor Joan. Her face both when she was raped, and when she saw Peggy happily walking into her office just broke my heart.
Post at 2:12 PM EST
Have to give a "big up" to Peggy! She's imperfect as hell but learns from those mistakes. She's worked hard at climbing the ladder and made so many strides. Plus, she's rockin' a cute new 'do!
Great episode. The scene with the hot rod seems out of sequence but I believe it is in the shows "present". Don is evaluating what is important to him and is looking for a change. Also this is a homage to the pre beach boy hot rodding culture of southern California. Last week's Dylan reference was a similar shout-out to the surrounding cultural changes. Don is deciding if being a button down ad man is what he really wants.
Auburn Annie: FLW had several commissions around the country and something in the western desert. I grew up across the street from one of his estates - I think my favorite FLW experiences is actually the room they transplanted into the Metropolitan Museum in NY - the room feels like a hug but airy at the same time and organic - and why not Buffalo NY! They had some money once and were the first city in the world to be electrified thanks to Niagara Falls.
First of all, Betty is strong in her own right! However, I don't know about the season finale. I think she is pregnant! It is true, that she encouraged her "friend" but only to see if she would actually go through with it. Now she has a better understanding how it was so easy for Don. Human weakness is MAD! But is it forgivable? Liveable?HMMM.... As for Joan, who needs to put on a strong front, is devasted! Mr. Ideal is an insecure FREAK! And has to go! This is the only program I watch and truly enjoy. Please don't make all the admirable qualities in each character do a 180* I don't want to see Joan an abused housewife. UGH!
I really love this series.
And yes the last episodes were very slow. But last night was great.
Betty : I really don't like her character, is she Mommy Dearest? She is being very annoying.
I know because of the time and everything she will return with Don but this could change showing hoe a divorce woman had to act in those times. But this thing she does to her daughter is awful.
Joan : I know that she won't back off the marriage with the doctor, because it's more important what everybody is going to say. But Roger will be the only one to save her. But he doesn't deserve her, because he left his wife for this new girl...please.... after all the time Joan gave him.
Don : I don't like this nowhere ride that he took. The best of this series is how he confronts everything and how smart he is.
Peggy : I like this crush that Pete and admiration he is feeling for her. But I will like another strong man by Peggy. Loved that idea that this gay friend showed how to present herself. They should use that more in the next season. And please writers don''t Peggy get involved with the priest.
Will wait for next week, can't wait.
Lucky Strike - I don't know if Alice is racist - the whole society was racist (and sexist and homophobic and bigoted against all manner of groups) - but her remark wasn't racist - they were too concerned about privacy to worry about race in that moment.
So I know that Don was doing "flashback" but how long ago was it? It is summer than all of a sudden, it is Christmas?? Then he said she has to give him a divorce??? I thought for sure that he was going to sleep with this "Anna". Maybe I missed that, did he?? What is going to happen if he ever returns home to real life?
I agree,"daligalaxy" that Mr Ideal sure acted like a control freak. He wants it when HE wants it.
I thought that Anna Draper looked younger in the "today" sequence than she did in the "yesterday" sequence. She is such a lovable, forgiving woman. What a parallel when Anna gave Don/Dick a bag with new clothes. I thought about Jane with the Menkens" bag.
Doesn"t is warm your heart to see the little
Valentine heart that Sally made for Don??
I hope the 3rd season gives little Bobby a break. He has had to amuse himself through both seasons and this leads to trouble.
The guy from popsicle says the mother reminds him of someone -- it's Jesus. Notice how the big yellow circle in the logo becomes the mother's halo? After all, Sal's the art director. I thought the art seemed a bit dated, and/or too finished for a comp. Nevertheless, I enjoy watching Peg emulate Don. Total confidence, believing in everything she's saying. She seems to be getting it together on the outside, at least.
To the people saying that Betty is "out of control" and "abusing" her kids - evidently you've never REALLY been abused. I have. My father back handed me multiple times across the face until my nose bled. He pinned me to the floor and held his thumb across my throat so that I couldn't breathe until I stopped fighting him - then he slapped me some more.
THAT'S abuse.
And whoever thinks Betty had a miscarriage must never have had one either - I have. The blood is unbelievable. There is no way you can have a miscarriage and not be aware of it until someone says "Oh, you're bleeding."
Please, people, let's be realistic here.
And the Mom on the popsicle poster symbolizing Christ? ROFLMAO
I have seen the future. Newly "reborn" Don comes back to NY. Starts a new ad agency with Peggy as head talent, and competes directly with Duck and what is left of Sterling Cooper. Don's new firm could start with the Clearasil account and also the Popsicle account. Don vs. Duck....Peggy vs. Pete would make for some compelling TV. Only questions though....where would Joan end up (I think with Don's outfit) and what would happen to Roger (special adviser / board member of Don's new firm)?
I have seen the future. Newly "reborn" Don comes back to NY. Starts a new ad agency with Peggy as head talent, and competes directly with Duck and what is left of Sterling Cooper. Don's new firm could start with the Clearasil account and also the Popsicle account. Don vs. Duck....Peggy vs. Pete would make for some compelling TV. Only questions though....where would Joan end up (I think with Don's outfit) and what would happen to Roger (special adviser / board member of Don's new firm)?
Ken! Forgot Ken. We like Ken (heh-heh, Ken. I get it).
He's not as threatened by Peggy's promotion, unlike Harry and Paul, because hey, he's a published short story author. He's got enough confidence in himself as a person that he doesn't need the ego boost that having his own office would bring, unlike Poser Paul and Whiny Harry. Those who don't ask, don't get, boys!
Ken's "asked" by submitting his story to the Atlantic and he's "gotten" by having it published.
To the people saying that Betty is "out of control" and "abusing" her kids - evidently you've never REALLY been abused. I have. My father back handed me multiple times across the face until my nose bled. He pinned me to the floor and held his thumb across my throat so that I couldn't breathe until I stopped fighting him - then he slapped me some more.
THAT'S abuse.
And whoever thinks Betty had a miscarriage must never have had one either - I have. The blood is unbelievable. There is no way you can have a miscarriage and not be aware of it until someone says "Oh, you're bleeding."
Please, people, let's be realistic here.
And the Mom on the popsicle poster symbolizing Christ? ROFLMAO
I think the '34 sedan symbolised his regression. I think Joan will become a feminist. Matt Weiner said in the Charlie Rose interview that alot of the show was based on the feminine mystique which came out 1963.
Okay, I'm confused.
Why and how did Don assume the name he is going by now?
What did he gain from doing so? Sometimes they talk so soft I can't hear what the heck is going on.
Can anyone explain? Thanks
I missed the "joke" of what Cooper's sister said to Roger about his children?? What did her comment mean?
I missed the "joke" of what Cooper's sister said to Roger about his children after the board meeting was over. He said he only has one (his daughter)What did her comment mean? Was it a sarcastic remark about the number of women he beds, which may lead to the procreation of many children? HELP!
Yes, I think Dr. Creepy's raping her his way of marking her as his territory at Sterling/Cooper. My prediction is that Roger will drop Jane--because remember, he didn't pick up with her until Joan got engaged--and get back with Joan, who he really belongs with. And I think Alice was not referring to Jane as one of his children, but of his future family that he will have with Jane. I don't think Roger had thought about that yet, and that prospect will scare him off. Plus, what does she have that Joan doesn't have?
Do we think Don will come back to Betty and come clean with her about Dick Whitman? My plot line wish: He will come back to find out that Sterling Cooper was bought out, cash out his half a mil, and not wanting to report to Duck (or get fired by Duck), will start his own ad agency. He could open with the Clearasil account and hopefully will take Peggy with him!
BEST lines of Ep. 12:
Anna: "This will be our last Christmas together."
Dick: "Why? You could be my cousin." And Dick/Don and Anna smirk almost chuckle.
What a great and fanciful longing that Dick/Don has and Anna immediately understands can't happen.
[Remembered Don's comment about Perry Como's voice: "He makes everything sound like Christmas."]
OH!!! Maybe the pill has been responsible for Joan's weight gain! The dose used to be HUGE. Let's hope she was taking it! I agree, it would be AWFUL if she had to marry that bastard.
I agree with those that think we are going to get Don back with Betty [have held that view as Don was sent out from the beginning :)) ] WITH Betty becoming more and more manipulative as she finds/senses her power... power becomes cruelty in stages, typically, mainly because the ego is less constrained, held in check... Don is coming home to a hornets nest!
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Can someone explain what did Cooper's sister mean to Roger about his children after the board neeting was over with? I don't understand, he only has a daughter. Was it a sarcastic jab at him meaning the number of women he beds eventually leads to procreation of many children??
Also, while Joan was being raped she was staring at a piece of art on Don's coffee table. What was it she was staring at?
Alice Cooper's DOUBLE dig at Roger:
Alice: You have your children to think of -
Roger: I just have the one...
Alice: Really.
children meaning the one(s) Joan will/might want to have AND Joan being a child... to a women of Alice's age Joan, at 20, is a virtual child or a 'kid' hooking in with the grown-ups... a dig at Roger for taking up with someone young enough to be his daughter, literally!
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Remember the doctor says as he starts to rape her "I know this is what you want" or something like that. Yuck.
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/10/post.html#more
She gets it right every time.
Ken also seems to have his own office already... and he's come to respect Peggy as 'the real deal'... the truth is that Peggy is the next gen star of the agency... something that Harry and Paul and Pete haven't realized yet... I agree that Ken seems more confident about what he can do than the others... Pete is beginning to realize that Pegs is moving up fast as well and respects her, so far, for it... will be interesting to see if and when Pete begins to see Peggy as a RIVAL and a lover... now there's some serioius conflict as attraction chaos for you...
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Well I was greatly amazed that somebody as capable and sassy and liberated as Joan would allow her fiance to violate her like that. I mean this is a woman who makes her own choices about who she chooses to be with and how and when. I was very stunned that she simply endured that without slapping him or putting up more of a fight. But I can see how Joan would feel that she has to accept that behavior because of who and what she thinks she is in her mind: the woman who is destined to be the mistress wanted for her body but nothing else. I sincerely hope that Joan stands up for herself like she does everyone else, and puts this monster in his place by not marrying him and exposing him.
The Don-Anna relationship is TOTALLY plausible, if you've had one, you know...
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... so much for Roger's comment in Ep.11 that Alice would do what ever Bert does... looks like the reverse right now anyway... though I think Yoda will turn back to the light, find his center and cast off the evil darkness of Duck the Sith!
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Can someone help me understand something here? What was with the phone call that Betty had with her friend about the stable boy? I didn't understand it when she agreed to meet the boy then didn't show up for lunch. What is going on there? Why did she arrange to meet him but instead appears to have set him up with her friend? And why did she set him up with her friend. She seemed to be aware that her friend and the stable kid got together than appeared to rub salt in the wounds by reminding her of him upcoming wedding date? What is the story there? Also, what is the story with Betty and the little boy who ran away? Is she just really disturbed?
Final Reality Check :))
In the 60s parents pulled kids hair... kids pulled other kids hair at school and playing sports, when things got testy... it was "a thing" and it happened 'fairly often... it was done 'in place' of striking, punching... it was seen as sissy fighting or 'fighting like a girl'... as off putting as those descriptors are today, that's the way it WAS and how it was seen/labelled... was not AT ALL unusual to be in a park or at a pool, at the beach or just playing in the street fooling around and seeing that happen... at least in the suburbs... :)))
P
Can someone clarify a few things about Betty for me? What was the deal with her phone call to her friend about the stable kid getting married? I didn't understand the episode when Betty agreed to meet him and then appeared to set him up with her friend instead. What is going on there? Also, what is going on with Betty and the little boy that ran away from home? I find her to be the most confusing character of all. I just can't get a read on her. Can anyone enlighten me?
Pete's an asshole! No sympathy for that pissant! I felt bad for his father-in-law having to hear that Pete used to love Trudy! Now that's some serious shit! I was hoping Daddy Vogel would arrive at SC, just to unleash a special brand of "whoop-ass" on that punk-bitch Pete!
BTW, I really hate Pete!
Poor Joan. Doctor Charming turns out to be a sicko sadist. He'll probably start slapping her around next.
But she goes along with the charade, can't call off the wedding, because she can't give up the fairy tale. So she turns a blind eye to the obvious signs, just like all the other wives in this series. Just like all women did back then.
I am continually fascinated by how the show runners consistantly use the charactors to show how much has changed in our society in a brief 40 years.
I'm glad someone else noticed the chair that Don was fixing for Mrs. Draper (remember the chair that Don didn't fix for Betty for the dinner party, and she broke it into bits)? As for the rape. The young doctor was obviously jealous when Roger commented to Joan that she said she didn't like French food. He's an evil and mean man who degraded her in Don's office because he was punishing her. I record Mad Men so I can watch it over and over again until I am able to notice all the subtleties and all the little messages that always seem to permeate the episodes. I love this show so much. I don't recall being half this excited lately about any show or movie. The writing is so excellent! I also love reading other viewers ideas about the episodes. What an interesting group!
I loved the use of Greig's "In the Hall of the Mountain King" on the piano as Don/Dick enters Anna's house. It was a beautiful and significant allusion to Ibsen's "Peer Gynt" for which Grieg wrote incidental music. Peer Gynt goes to the hall of the mountain king, gets the king's daughter pregnant by thinking about it, tries to run while being chased by the king who is a troll (that is the chase music the boy played), and when the troll king catches him, asks who he really is. The whole play is about self-identity, and Don/Dick was certainly "in the hall of the mountain king" in this episode!
I have never commented on this blog I have only read it every Monday morning while going thru MM withdrawls. I didn't have time to read all 400 comments, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but remember, when Bert Cooper offered Don the Partnership Don didn't want a contract. When Don comes back "Reborn/Renewed" he will find the changes during his absence. Maybe because he didn't put his position, salary and Partnership in writing not to mention he abandoned the company for a while the new arrangement will put him back at square one. Remember in the preview for next week Duck mentioned that Don would have to basically deal with it.
I think Betty is having a miscarriage and that is either going to unite Betty and Don again or make her feel abandoned even more during this loss and keep them apart. You never know the way these writers tell a story anything can happen.
Donald Whitman:
When Anna tells Don "i understand if you dont want to talk about it" was she referring to something other than their divorce?
She's referring to his not mentioning Betty. Normally, you talk about the kids, you talk about the spouse. Also she assumes that's also the reason he's had time to get a tan while in California on "business."
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With a half million bucks in 1962, Don can set up his own agency. By the time Season Three rolls around, he's rolling, having already grabbed the talented and finance/accounting ones he wanted from SC and added more. IF Don wants to be an entrepreneur, putting his money at risk vs. being a Creative Director with a salary.
3:51 EST
WOW the rape disturbed me. She will be covering shiners ups next. She can't let him go because it will mess up the whole facade she has created.
I think Don will come back home and Betty will be the one that will start being unfaithful to him.
Lets hope they sign some contracts soon, or the show is just a great memory.
Some people have been wondering where they can watch previous episodes of Mad Men online. Here in Canada, the CTV network has all the episodes.
The link is:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/show/CTVShows/20080610/mad_streaming_080610
I don't know if American users will have their access blocked as happens to Canadians trying to watch television programs on U.S. sites.
57 Chevy asks, "OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?" And the answer is....yes! That's what rape looks like. When as man pushes you down and holds your FACE to the floor while he forces sex on you, yes, that's rape.
There was nothing loving or pleasurable or comforting about it. The act of rape was to put Joan in her place...to humiliate her in her workplace where she is the office manager. Afterward, the doctor acted as though nothing happened and Joan left the roses that he brought her on the desk. She was in walking-shock and not entirely focussed when she came out of Don's office after the rape.
It's interesting the way she tried to start a conversation with Peggy Olson about her getting married. Peggy just dismissed her pleasantly. I feel that she felt Peggy was her equal and that she could confide in her because she has no other female friends.
Ohhhhhh! There's gotta be a third season because I really need to see what happens!
57 Chevy asks, "OMG! Is the doctor raping Joan?" And the answer is....yes! That's what rape looks like. When as man pushes you down and holds your FACE to the floor while he forces sex on you, yes, that's rape.
There was nothing loving or pleasurable or comforting about it. The act of rape was to put Joan in her place...to humiliate her in her workplace where she is the office manager. Afterward, the doctor acted as though nothing happened and Joan left the roses that he brought her on the desk. She was in walking-shock and not entirely focussed when she came out of Don's office after the rape.
It's interesting the way she tried to start a conversation with Peggy Olson about her getting married. Peggy just dismissed her pleasantly. I feel that she felt Peggy was her equal and that she could confide in her because she has no other female friends.
Ohhhhhh! There's gotta be a third season because I really need to see what happens!
Joan was stupid for bring Greg to the office.
What purpose did it serve?
Do women bring there BoyFriends to where their other Lovers are roaming around.
Men are not stupid we pick-up on that " oh you had her also feeling"
As for JerkGreg he was marking her in her territory ... doing what he felt everyone else had already done too.
What happened wasn't Joan's fault it was her stupidity. We guys Don't bring our girlFriend around all our ex's to show them off to one another.
Being grabbed by the ear was another big thing they did.
And don't forget the infamous ruler on the hands.
And indeed you did not backtalk a teacher or an adult neighbor: it was the same as how you'd address your parents...and if you infracted that rule, boyoboy would you get yours when you got home.
Jerseygirl - No one is saying it didn't happen, some of us are just saying that it's abuse where others aren't. It was abuse then and it's abuse now.
We all got spanked. You didn't mouth off to your parents, and god forbid we backtalk the teachers. But no one ever inflicted violence on us. I'm sorry for everyone who did have violence in their childhoods and hope you got help so you don't do it to your kids.
Don Draper has the right attitude.
Kehoe, what do you mean if you've had one, you know..." Had one what? A relationship? Or do you mean a relationship with the person who was married to the person whose identity I stole? lol!
I find their relationship implausible mainly because of the way Don so cruelly treated his brother (who seemed to really love Don) for being a link to his past/someone who could blow his cover but is the best of friends with Anna. It is inconsistent. Anna might be the nicest person in the world, but blood is thicker than water, right? The whole Anna-Don thing seems pretty weak to me.
My first reaction after hearing that young boy work his way through "In the Hall of the Mountain King" was to disregard the reference to Ibsen's play as incidental. But the more I thought about it, the more I came to believe that there's more to this connection than meets the eye.
During one of the more famous moments in Ibsen's play, Peer digs around in the ground and finds an onion, which he peels apart, comparing each of the layers to a past adventure in his life. "What is an onion anyhow?," he asks. "Layer after layer. Where is the core, where is it--the onion's self? Damned if he's got any self. Right down to the center he's nothing but layers--smaller and smaller." Then, after tossing the onion aside he, Peer finally concedes that Nature "is a joke."
Don/Dick is definitely peeling back the layers of his own life and like Peer, searching for some sense of identity.
It's obvious some people did not see the first season, hence, some of the confusion.
Regarding copywriters, especially female copywriters, not having personal offices. Didn't you hear Sterling?"The rest of the guys didn't have the balls to ask me for one." Peggy DOES have balls and that's how she got it. I don't doubt there were one or two "pioneers" back then.
Can anyone see where the adoption thread is moving. Peter and his wife will end up adopting Peter/Peggy's son. Can't wait to see how this transpires.
Also, during the popsicle presentation. The one guy said "Don Draper has signed off on this." Now whether he did or did not, we don't know. And then the Popsicle executive said that the mother in the ad looked a little familiar and Peggy said, "No, it's original." Wondering if this ad "signed off on by Draper" has some small glitch that will get Peggy and Team in trouble ... Just a thought.
Anna has proven that she will not tell on Don.
His brother immediately blew his cover.
I find Anna very plausible, especially considering that Don/Dick bought her house and kept her financially comfy all these years. Why would she blow that off?
Re the show's ending. It was a ritualistic baptism scene and even the song "... so redeemed from sin, called out of darkness ... a new life to begin."
Don's heading back to New York and perhaps a changed life. (Though that might "dull up" the show.)
I love this show.
If Joan had REALLY started fighting the doctor off during the rape, it would've given what was happening to her more credence and ugliness. She wouldn't have been able to view it any other way then, except as a violation and rape. Submission allowed her to "go away" and inside herself to be in denial. Poor Joan. Every time I think of her in that scene I start to cry.
BETTY'S BLEEDING: Do you remember that Betty Draper's mother died recently of cancer and her father remarried? We don't know what kind of cancer her mother had but many cancers have an hereditary link. If Betty's bleeding is an early sign of cancer (it didn't seem as though it was her period she was experiencing and she didn't seem to complain of the cramping that accompanies the onset of a miscarriage.), then that could account for the sudden bleeding.
In the next episode she says "I can't do that." and I don't think it is in response to the suggestion that she have an abortion, which is not legal until the mid 1970's. I believe that the scene shows her wearing curlers, smoking and talking. I believe she has been to the doctor and the doctor wants to do a hysterectomy, which was a wholesale operation for ANY woman who was having irregular or heavy periods back them.
I love Anna Draper. What a beautiful woman inside and out. I do think they have had sex. Notice the scene where Don is on the couch and Anna has just returned from the Broadway Department store with new clothes for Don. The next scene shows her moving slowly to the kitchen (not just from the polio) with her hair messed up. I think she got the full Don Draper treatment.
As for the beach scene it reminded me of Anne Bancroft in the Slender Thread where she goes into the surf with her clothes on.
I am glad the Jet setters are gone.
I cant see Don working under Duck for very long. He has no contract and will quit.
Mad Men is like a jigsaw puzzle that the writers give us pieces of the story to build the full picture.
BETTY'S BLEEDING: Do you remember that Betty Draper's mother died recently of cancer and her father remarried? We don't know what kind of cancer her mother had but many cancers have an hereditary link. If Betty's bleeding is an early sign of cancer (it didn't seem as though it was her period she was experiencing and she didn't seem to complain of the cramping that accompanies the onset of a miscarriage.), then that could account for the sudden bleeding.
In the next episode she says "I can't do that." and I don't think it is in response to the suggestion that she have an abortion, which is not legal until the mid 1970's. I believe that the scene shows her wearing curlers, smoking and talking. I believe she has been to the doctor and the doctor wants to do a hysterectomy, which was a wholesale operation for ANY woman who was having irregular or heavy periods back them.
I went to Catholic school too, starting in the later 60s. I didn't see that much abuse from the nuns or the teachers. Maybe it was the school I attended. I had heard of horr