Didn't the "real Don Draper " say he was going to L.A. when he got out of the army?
Read "The Velveteen Rabbit" to my niece today. Somehow reminded me of D.D. Well, so I am obsessing - it's only 7:11 in LA. Gotta do something to fill the time
Yes, definitely! I am watching the credits for Pete's Mom, if it is Anita Dangler, then she was on Little House. Who is Bets sister-in-law? Did she play the child on the Children of Stepford Wives? I always notice the secondary characters from previous movies. Any help out there?
Thats funny Jonathan my hubby was thinking the same thing!! Actually he looks younger than McCain. Hilarious how some people think alike. Ok back to the Madmen posts though Bettys dad just groped her and forgot who she was, I feel bad for Bets her father is really sick.
yeah, betty's dad does remind me of john mccain. and what is the deal with betty? she has sex with don then doesn't let him back into the house? she needs to go to a real shrink!
Good for Bets. She's trying to show him that she has some power. And besides, what woman could lay there with that man sleeping below. I was thinking "Go Bets, Go Bets"!
By crnacc on October 5, 2008 9:37 PM
yeah, betty's dad does remind me of john mccain. and what is the deal with betty? she has sex with don then doesn't let him back into the house? she needs to go to a real shrink!
I'm almost wondering if this was Don's dream sequence maybe. She seemed so cold to him the next morning, but.... Lust can be that way sometimes, I think she just wanted him - period.
I agree that she needs even more help than her prior shrink was able to give her.
Is anyone else digging (in a very strange way) Betty's new "little husband"?
And didn't he look like a little Don Draper in that oversized t-shirt?!
I've been watching this entire episode waiting for someone to wake up .... Don, from Betty in the middle of the night. Betty from her "I came to rescue you" young superhero.
But now that's she's sending Little Don back to his home, does that clear the way for Big Don to come back to his home?
I LOVE THIS SHOW !!!!
(yes to the McCain comment by the way ... i thought the exact same thing!)
...and she's not even a teacher!! She needs A LOT of attention and she seeks it from whoever will give it to her. Not abnormal with real men, many women out there like that, but a pedophile? YUK!
I agree Stephanie Jo she is showing him she needs her sexual feeling but still want take his sh*@. I like the fact she is not budging for him whatsoever.
So many touches in this show throw me back; Betty's Dad's comment about how Don has no "people" and you can't trust someone with no
people; a phrase my own family used a lot. I am actually starting to feel sorry for Don; this show makes you almost feel sorry for everyone except for maybe Pete, Roger and Kinsey.. It is shocking to me how cruel Pete and his brother are in regards to their mother's financial situation. There is a lot of loss in this show, I think that's what get to you. I think Joan embarrassed Kinsey on purpose asking him for his ticket in front of everyone. Pete once again trying to get sympathy out of Peggy. "Happy Birthday!" was a riot; it is hard to believe how unprofessional that office is; Glen is one weird kid trying to bust a move on Betty. I predict Kinsey will get his ass kicked at that march.
Yes, Mcmere the whole Betty/kid thing IS creepy. But its the only story line involving her that I give a damn about. Her punishing Don...big mistake. Her and the whole affair/set-up with horse boy and her girlfriend....boring housewife crap. She's fun to look at but really self-centered and she kinda bums me out.
omg, what a bitch Betsy is. go ahead, give the old man a romp in the hay, and say 'we were pretending'. While Don could have used the opportunity to acquiesce, she certanily pulling him around my his nutsack. Not cool, even by 60's standards.
Oh yeah whats up with the scenes with Betty and this kid. They make it seem like she has some type of interest, I dont know if it is that he wants to give her attention or the company im confused. It does seem creepy I hope it doesn't go the touchy feely way because my views will change of the sweetheart Betty.
Funniest scene: Betty and Glenn sitting on the couch watching cartoons. Her wearing her shorts, blouse and little-girl hair-do, sipping a Coke out of a straw. In that moment, she looked the happiest she's been all season.
Paul Kinsey on the bus to Selma??.... don't you think those black guys are going to eventually have to beat him up and toss him out the window? He is one arrogant, annoying snob. I don't know how Sheila can stand him.
Jonathan, yes, I thought the same thing - John McCain!
I love this show so much - thank you Matthew Weiner et al for intelligent television!
I loved seeing Glen and Helen again. I hope Betty and Helen get to be friends, although I hope Don and Betty don't divorce - please, say isn't so, Matthew!
Betty is not a pedophile - she and Glen have a soul connection. He understands her the way she wishes Don would. The fact that Betty called Helen proves she isn't a pedophil.
I'll write more later - have to watch the encore presentation.
I agree, Betty and Don's home life doesn't interest me nearly as much as the stuff in the office. Although I adore her little flip hair-do. What ever happened to that? Allan Sherman (remember him?) sang: "See how this one looks on me/Just like Jackie Kennedy..." I think Mary Tyler Moore had that hairstyle for a while.
Don was having a dream...the next morning that pink top bedspread was neatly tucked back on the bad while Don had the tan top cover. But it's kind of funny that the father wants to "get with" Betty as much as Don wants to.
I keep telling folks that Arm Charm Betty is a manipulative skank and folks make like she's a saint! Her storylines bore me and she drags down Don! I hope he gets laid in L.A. No, really gets laid!
BTW, Spiteful Betty will end up preggo by the finale!
I'm just glad that the scenes involving Glenn and Betty are over with. I'm glad that she ratted him out to his mother, I think that finally, Betty realized the creepiness factor of their relationship.
btw, thought that the song at the end as Don and Pete were on the plane together, sounded too futuristic, compared to 1962. Then again, they are traveling to a much more sophisticated destination which really was much more ahead in the coolness factor.
I feel what you are saying Saunterer but Don is a cheating bastard and he deserves whatever Betty throws at him at this moment, She could of been like him and just screwed someone else but instead they are still married and she has the right to love her husband and throw him out.
Betty and the kid is creepy. As a child of the 60's I LOVED the choice of the song Telstar playing when Don and Pete were flying off to LA. Absolutely perfect! Someone gave Pampers as a baby gift, did we have those in the early 60's? I do not remember but perhaps we did.
Don was NOT having a dream, Betsy blew it off by saying "we were just pretending". Women are so callous....OK, Don is callous too, but women are supposed to be less so, right ?
The office people are much more interesting than Betty's weirdo family and Pete's cold relatives!
I want more of the office scenes! Paul and Sheila's interactions were cute! And it's good to see that some folks at SC give a damn--barely--about the world outside them!
What? Are you guys saying that Betty laying on top of Don at her parent's house was a dream-scene? Really? That didn't happen? I have to go watch it again...
Betty's father is acting more like he has dementia than the effects of a stroke. My paternal grandfather had dementia (before many people knew about or understood it) and acted like my mother was his wife. It creeped my mother out and she tried to avoid him, but never told my father. She didn't want to upset him and also thought he wouldn't believe it. My brother-in-law also has it now (Alzheimers) and the last time I visited them he asked her who I was.
honeysuckle, you have a point. Don will never admit his adultery, he's a pig. But she's lowering herself to his level. I would have hoped for better, she's always been good to him.
Visan: Paul could give two shits about the world outside of SC. The only reason he went with Sheila is because Don took his seat to L.A. and he had the time off already planned. I'm not sure his social conscience is what he would have us believe. He's such a pompous asshole, I hope he gets his ass kicked. Paul is to me what Betty is to Visan...
What is the back story of Betty and the creepy kid? I didn't see the first season.
I wonder if Betty's dad has "touched" her before and this is the beginning of why Betty is the way she is. I think that's why we're now seeing a lot of her family. Her brother is creepy too.
Playing Telstar by the Tornados at the very end while Don and Pete are on the plane is a masterful touch. Whoever thought of it goes to the head of the class.
Steph, how can Betsy be so digusted with Don's adultery, and then just hop on for a piece of salami ? That's what you approved of, and even cheered for. Is that the sort of behavior you'd have your daughter perform ?
As far as the kid is concerned, she was being nice to him. As soon as he started to do more than just hold her hand for a minute, she put a stop to it. She knew the kid wasn't getting any warmth from his mother. Once she saw what the kid was up to, she called his mother.
Your innuendo about "uh oh, another one" is disgusting and as misplaced as can be. Don't be juvenile.
Yes--I loved the song Telstar-it was very "futuristic." If I remember right, that was the name of the early unmanned satellite we had launched into space. I think Betts is playing a control game with Don. She will decide what happens--including if or when they will have sex. I think the guy on the bus wearing the hat looked like Barry Obama.
So are Pete and his brother lying to their Mother to protect her from ever finding out that Dad blew all their money? I thought they said Dad blew it all. Does she really have anything left to keep up that snooty lifestyle of hers?
I'm thinking that Pete is ready for another go 'round with Peggy and yet it seems as though he loathes her at times. I guess it must be a physical thing for both of them, Peggy seems so refined towards him and he acts as though he's so much better than she is. I'm thinking that Peggy has had her fill of Pete, she's got the reminder of their baby and the fact that Pete is so narsisstic. (sp)
Any takers that Peggy will offer up the baby to Pete and his wife to solve their "adoption" issue?
Saunterer, I think you're off the mark making value judgments of posters here. It isn't cool. It's a discussion.
And yes, I could see Betty jumping on Don to keep him wondering, and bolstering her courage to make a decision. It was also a way to shoot him down once they got home. Don will call her on it soon.
zabadu, if Don doesn't admit to his adultery, I don't care if it's the 1960's or the 1860's. He's done her wrong, and doesn't give a crap. I understand plenty. He's a pig
STEPHANIE JO -- yes, that Signature scene reminded me of Sex & the City too. When Trey's mother Bunny turned up her nose at the idea of having a Japanese baby in the McDougall family.
Saunterer: Men didn't do that then. You cannot compare a 1960s world to today. It just doesn't work that way. Let me guess, you're about 25, aren't you?
Betty & Glen IS very disturbing...and the fact that she was all alone in the house with a little boy that is so very highly infatuated with her...and having Don's clothes on?
Pete's mother is as arrogant to him as he is to others. But the "market not doing well"...LOL how history repeats itself.
@Laurie: I'm sayin' that at least somebody's perhaps giving a damn about Civil Rights who's associated with SC. And his going made others in the office take note. Not because they liked Civil Rights but they cared about him, maybe. I missed the social conscious that was brought up subtly last season through Midge and the Beatniks. So it's good to see that worked in the plot.
Plus, we all have characters that annoy the piss outta us. And Paul is to Laurie what SAB is to Visan! It's all good! LOL!
I thought I knew something about the early 60s having lived through them but maybe not....
...or are Pete and his family a particularily bloodless lot...the mother talking about disowning her son and daughter-in-law because they want to adopy?
.....Pete and his brother suggesting that their mom should aspire to an early demise because it appears that she will be unable to live in the manner to which she has become accustomed?
... who the hell does Pete think he is anyway..."why do you insist on making me angry before I go to sleep...this is the same man who was will will to "pimp" his wife out to gain some sort of mythical literary career?
.....Betty and Don certainly experiencing a really rough patch in their marriage....I kind of think they might get through this but then who knows?
Betty is just such an adolecent no wonder Glenn is trying to hit on her...
....Glenn is just such a pathetic figure...a child who is forced into an adult role because of a non nurturing mom..looking for love in alllll the wrong places...what made him think he could hide out in Sally's doll house...I just feel so very sory for him.
Don't you love Paul insisting that Hollis call him "Paul" in the elevator as if he'd already told him 100 times....Maybe Hollis ends up on the bus and tells the rest of the freedom riders what a wuss Paul really is.
Maybe it's better that Pete adopt so as to put an end to that creepy bloodline he comes from (although with Pete as a father no child stands a chance at growing up well adjusted). Hasn't there been some buzz about Pete having pontentially been adopted himself (which would make his mother's comments about drawing from the discards even meaner than it was).
I have been defending Betty in the past on the grounds of her drepression, but she is starting to work my last nerve afer this episode...
Visan, I agree so much about the office story lines being more interesting than all the other stuff.
I think the theme tonight — inheritance — can be seen in (of course) the scenes between Pete and his mother, and again in Pete and his wife considering adoption, and again in Betty's father saying of Don that he "has no people." I'm sure I probably missed some other connections.
The scenes from next week of Paul lecturing the freedom riders (remember them?) on Marxist philosophy and advertising looks awfully amusing.
I'm somewhat excited at the idea of an alliance (and more?) between Don and Joan!
Betty wasn't molested, her dad had a stroke and thought she was his wife who she looks just like. Her father isn't being himself.
Betty enjoyed glen's innocents and adoration because she is lonely and sad.
Betty slept with don that night because she loves him she misses him, she needed to be close to him. But that doesn't mean that he is allowed to come home. She wants Don but her heart is broken (how is that hard to understand?). After what don has done to her, why would you think betty is being cruel?
Saunt, it's called 'payback'. It's been done over and over and is very typical. And yes, I cheered, cuz that man is sooo hot, I was relating it to how I feel, not exactly for the show. He is her husband after all, and better off getting it from him, then from somebody else. With the kid, she only stopped holding his hand when somebody came in, otherwise, we don't know how long it would have went on for. Uh oh, meant that I thought u approved of the kid's & her actions. Next time you make a comment, make yourself Clear, then I can retort properly. You just left it hanging. Nice try, Saunt!
These Betty fans need to cease and desist with looking at that flake with blinders! She's an asshole like every character on Mad Men is an asshole, including Don!
With the subtext of Kinsey's involvement in the Civil Rights activities, Mad Men appears more and more to be foreshadowing the coming storm of the 60s, and the disintegration of the postwar 1950s Kodachrome era inhabited by Don Draper and friends. Any info/ gossip on what season 3 has in-store?I have a very strong premonition that the creators of Mad Men have set the trajectory of the series to climax with the assassination of JFK, which is really brilliant considering that the series very deliberately began in 1960, putting it after the 1950s, in that twighlight before the onset of the upheaval and turbulence of the real 1960s. The creators and actors of Mad Men have ingeniously drawn the viewer into a world where they are torn between revulsion at the crude social norms repressing women and blacks, and a simultaneous dread at what is in store once the 60s really take hold and convulse the nation. Thank you Mr Weiner and crew for bringing back ART to TV.
Another awesome episode, and a lot of prologue for next week. I love in the preview when Don in LA says to Pete 'do you really want to see me on vacation, Pete?' or something similar. I always loved when TV shows would have the 'Los Angeles vacation' episode. I think it will be hysterical to watch Don and Pete paint the town. Can't wait to see next week! A few thoughts on this week:
+Betty finally growed up. Some weird child-like stuff with Birdie this week -- saying she's an orphan, fooling around in her childhood room, the weird Glen thing. Laurie B, that image was hysterical -- drinking 'pop' not booze for the first time in awhile. But she clearly grows up a bit in this episode, even kicking poor Don out. She's gotta grow up, he's gotta come clean. It won't work otherwise.
+ Pete was awesome. I have to say, Pete's family sucks, and I was cracking up when he hit his mom with guns blazing over her foolish objection to adoption, as if that bloodline must be propagated at all costs. I also loved when he suggested the movie 'Rope' when discussing killing his mom. I initially thought he was using the 'first flight since my father died' just to get another couch session with Peggy. Maybe he was, but you had to feel a bit for him -- he has no one to talk to. (By the way, Tweetie and Birdie? Parallel marriages? Does Roger call Mona 'Crow' or something?)
+ Kinsey. I liked Hollis' reaction in the elevator when Kinsey said 'can't it wait' about the Civil Rights trip. That, and his ad speak on the bus painted him as pretty out of touch. It should get interesting. Don is clearly going to LA to escape from his troubles, but I think he also watched Kinsey act like an idiot at Harry's party and realize he's not fit to schmooze clients.
Also, I love how Joan and Don gave Roger the cold shoulder, and how Don stood up for Joan a bit by saying she's already doing a fine job holding down the fort.
Lastly, Betty's line about 'just pretending' is rich. Just that last night, or the whole thing?
The use of Telstar was a brilliant musical choice for the end of this episode. After all, what better song than one about a satellite since Don and Pete were flying to a convention of aerospace companies? I loved the way the sunrise slowly illuminated Don's face through the plane portal -- could that represent "a new dawn" for Don?
MartiniUp: See - that's another pompous Paul moment - in the elevator with Hollis - he's a jackass!
Visan: Ohhh I get what you're saying -- Weiner & Co. bringing civil rights into the show... yes, that's cool and I agree with you. I just wish it wasn't Pomp-ass Paul who has that story line. Unless of course, he gets his ass kicked, then I'll love it.
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
What did you guys think of Betty's Dad's house keeper/maid. Once again it seems the lower you are on the Mad Men social pole, the more common sense and compassion you have.
this is the best show on tv right now...i must admit, sometimes i get lost in the story line...it changes so much but i guess that's part of the mystery..
You have to read more into the story lines with Betty, Glenn and her father. They're showing a woman of the 1960s. Stuck between her father and her husband, Betty really relates more to Glenn the child because that is how she is treated. The orphan comment mixed with all of it just shows her as a confused person trying to define what she is, who she is and what it is all about.
When I saw Betty on that couch with Glenn I finally realized how correct all of you were in saying she was an overgrown child. The writers basically broke it down for me.
She related to Glenn so much because she feels like she's in the same position. I think when she saw her kids she realized what her role truly was. I also kind of think that now she something to relate to Helen Bishop about; maybe learn a little from her situation.
The way she basically used Don for a sympathy lay and then tried to act like she was the righteous spurned housewife made me think how childish she was.
---
I actually felt sympathy for Pete in the scene with his mother. If he's a jerk, then it's clear to see where he learned it from. I was actually kind of gleeful that he was tearing her little glass house down.
Then we see him turn into a thoughtless prick again with Peggy. "You just have it so easy...."
---
He's not half as despicable as Mr. Paul Kinsey. UGH!
I wanted to punch him when he called up Sheila only after his West Coast party trip was cancelled. And then the nerve of him talking all that self-important B.S. on that bus ride. Like anyone on that bus ride was on the trip for their health!
He could care less about civil rights as much as he cares about looking the pristine progressive.
Joan had his number a long time ago!
(Joan also obviously dumped any esteem she had for Roger as well. Did anybody catch those darts she was throwing him?)
I now see the theme of this whole episode: ENTITLEMENTS
And there was no "stigma" to adoption in the 60s - it was encouraged and people did it all the time. It's when they started charging a fortune for these poor kids that adoption became too much of a hassle for most people.
Do you think Peggy even ties Pete to the baby, what with her psychosis about it and all?
And I agree, Betty fans scare me. She's got serious problems. Don is faking a whole life. Betty just wants appearances. She had a lot of nerve telling the neighbor how to mother her kids when she's such a bad one herself.
Saunterer called it - Betty didn't want to hurt Glenn's feelings but knew what was best for him, so she got him cleaned up and fed before calling his mother. I don't think she wanted too much drama so she waited until her kids got home to get him out of the way before calling Helen.
Y'all can go ahead and hate me now! But I'm soooo tired of all the scenes of the Draper's house, the Olsen's home and the Campbell manse! Too much emphasis on the home and not enough attention to the SC office has me rather bored! The Smiths and the Fellas and Hildy are interesting. I was happy to watch Sheila (isn't she a doll?) and Paul have a lunch date! Why? Because I'm damn tired of these other people at home!
Season 3 needs to be re-focused on the office! That is what made the first season kick-ass!
Oh common folks, Betty and the kid have an understanding, and Betty is an adult and knows what he's going through. It's probably even telescoping her relationship to her kids for her,
She starting to act like an adult again, and whatever her
feelings toward Don (dream or not), she seems to be coming out of her funk, because the kid is reaching out to her. Yeah, he has a crush on her, big deal.
I loved the surf guitars during the flight as well. I tend to think
they're one of the groups that's reviving that genre.... lol or
the Space Cossacks. But it's not the Space Cossacks, I have the cd in my car, but the name's not coming. Someone upthread said "Telstar", but that doesn't ring any bells for me.
I could be wrong.
I felt that the entire episode was primarily a 'set-up' for what's to come .... plot progression. Yes, I wasn't prepared for Joan's lack of tact in telling Kinsey he was off the trip.
The character's are still new to me, as I haven't seen the
first season (much) and need to remedy that soon.
“The New York Times Magazine” this week contains an article, “Character Issues,” questioning whether Jon Hamm “can pull off the James Gandolfini feat” of being “responsible for ensuring the show’s continuity and coherence” even though others (directors, writers, cast, crew) constantly changed around him. As Tony became more sinister and depraved, Gandolfini (although he personally disliked Tony and hated the violence required of him) entered fully and consistently into his character.
Virginia Heffernan, the writer, “worries” about Jon Hamm. She found Hamm’s portrayal of Don Draper more believable in the First Season than so far in the Second. “Perhaps Hamm, like many Hollywood stars, wants to be liked above all, and Draper is written as less likable in nearly every episode. If the show is to mature and last, Hamm will have to risk being hated.”
If you are interested in reading the complete article, click on the link and scroll down to The Medium, “Character Issues.”
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
The line Don uses for the next ep to Pete is "do you want me to make this a vacation for you, because I can". I think Pete will make Don very mad at this convention and might pay a price for it.
Joan and Don tossing daggers at Roger - loved that. In the previews, Roger asks Jane to marry him - I think she'll leave him after that. She herself said she was young and wanted to have lots of adventures.
Visan, I agree. the office scenes make the show. That said, I am jazzed about the idea of 'location' scenes both at a Civil Rights march and in LA, not to mention another flashback like in Hobo Code.
I had to look at my cd. It seems it's a 'cover' of Telstar by
Los Straightjackets or maybe it's Laika and the Cosmonauts.
Funny, that Russians and Hispanics have co-opted surf guitars.
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
@Sharon: I watch Mad Men because EVERY ONE is an asshole! NONE are saints, despite the insistence of the Betty fans/stans! I hate shows where characters are one-dimensional! And one cannot accuse Mad Men of painting their characters that way....
Mad Men series creator Matt Weiner and the cast discuss how, in Episode 210: "The Inheritance", Betty is forced to grow up, while Pete and Don do their best to avoid adult responsibilities.
I think, no, I know - Hamm is doing a wonderful job portraying Don Draper. Both last season and this one. His character has many layers yet to even be discovered and he'll pull that off brilliantly.
I love how Joan decides to deliver the message to Paul losing his LS boondoggle in the middle of the baby shower with a "don't shoot the messenger" attitude...and then asks if there is any cake left.
Don't your recall the past episode where the 'team'
was pitching the disposable diaper for their client?
As I recall the water activated granules used in 'pampers' were
an offshoot of the r&d being done for the space program (?)
Does anyone else here remember that, or am I confused? TIA
Madchen - You're right about Joan. Don told her to send Paul a memo, but she took it upon herself to announce it in front of everybody at the shower. She probably did it because of the look Paul gave her when he walked Sheila out for lunch.
This is from next week: On a business trip to Los Angeles, Don becomes acquainted with some exciting new friends. Peggy looks for romance at work. Duck starts thinking about the future of Sterling Cooper.
Paul's entire relationship with Sheila is all just being "stylish". Like when he threw the house party...wearing the ascot with smoking jacket & holding a pipe...He wants everyone to see how liberal & "with it" he is. When he was ousted out of the LA trip...it's suddenly his idea to go on the bus trip.
As a side note "advertising knows no color" NOT TRUE! It definitely knows the color GREEN. Because that is their first objective(why else grab a Jewish guy from the mailroom for the Menken account? And R&C hire a Black guy for their agency?)
I think this episode should be titled the uncomfortable episode. It was very rude of Joan to tell Paul he was not going to California, in front the whole staff. The Glenn and Betty scene was very creepy but, I think she was trying to respect his feelings as much she could. The line "nothing happened" is not something a normal mother in 1960 would have said to the child's mother. Women at that time were not likely to be suspected of pedophilia.
Visan: Paul did everything he could to get out of that trip with Sheila. He's only going now to save face with her = "I thought it over..." not "I don't get to go now". He dates her to be different and cool.
And in that day and age, I seriously doubt she would have been allowed into SC to begin with, even if it was to meet for lunch.
Right on, Jeri18. When Paul said that on the bus, I was like, "Yes, advertising is an equal opportunity exploiter. Thanks ad industry! You're so benevolent!"
I loved how he was beaming to Hollis, that Sheila was his girlfriend.
Did anyone notice how Betty just flippantly ignored Carla? One day her family's maid was a close confidante. The next, her own maid is trash. That Betty!
Telstar wasn't the first satellite, that was Sputnik, launched by the USSR. The first American satellite was Explorer. I think Telstar was the first commercial communications satellite, put up by At&T. The song is another story -- you'd think it is as American as can be but it's actually by an English band....
The episode is entitled Inheritance--I do wonder as some of you have brought up if Betty's inheritance is not only ceramic vases but the sexualized relationship with the father. He may have multi-infarct dementia but perhaps there is even more. She sees herself as an orphan even as she is held by a woman that mothered her. Obviously, Pete didn't receive any financial legacy but he inherited the full birthright of snobbery and viciousness. Don's inheritance of course is from the dishonest man. What the series points to is how these inheritances shape the characters' behaviors now. I love this show!
It's not just this one action of Betty's, she's done many questionable inappropriate scenes besides with this child. She let that salesman in the house in her sexy penoir, and then she kicked him out after she regained her senses. Then when her car broke down, and she bargained w the man to fix it w/out cash. He grabbed her hand after, then she just took it back. A bit of a tease but it's really that she just needs undivided attentions of anybody. Although the boy needs hers, she shouldn't be holding his hand and cutting off locks of her hair for him. Gross!
The theme to me is that, despite appearances, no one is happy with their legacy. Betty is not happy with her family's turning a blind eye to her father's stroke and dementia. Pete, despite his blueblood pedigreee, is appalled both that his father's profliglate ways have left him without any monetary interitance and that his mother is even more of a venal lowlife than he is. Glen, poor child, is trying to create an idealized family with Betty because he has been swept aside by both his father and mother. This was a more subtle episode than the last two but it is setting the stage for the coming changes. The "Telstar" closing song was in 1962 a modern paean to a hopeful, idealized vision of the future of space that would open new horizons. As a ten-year old, I remember the electronic, space-age sounds of Telstar as the dawning of new age where conquering space was no longer science fiction. The dawning of the sunlight on Don's face as he vectored toward LA was such a transparent signal that he is seeing with new eyes. I can't wait for next week's episode.
The relationship between Betty and Glen is extremely awkward. I thought their relationship in season one introduced some odd behavior. I am wondering where the writers plan on taking this story if not dropping it all together. Don's off to L.A... maybe he'll stay there after seeing all the California girls!
Talk about these themes and more at the Mad Men Lounge!
See, Joan lost me as a fan when she was rude to Sheila for no good reason!
Hey! I've always stated that Paul and all the other characters are assholes much of the time. But at least he went! Like I've said, he's getting cut a lot of slack because I want to see more of Sheila on the show.
Remembering, I just read that -- I disagree with the writer as well. Hamm's acting style reminds me of William Hurt back in the 'Accidental Tourist' days. All very subtle and internalized.
Also, I love the closing shot of Draper looking out the window, 'watching the city disappear behind him' like he said earlier.
Eric, re: Joan and Paul. They had a one-night stand, which he apparently blabbed about. Joan was rude to Sheila at his party, then mocked Kinsey for what she saw as the motives for his interest in Sheila. Kinsey responded by going into Joan's locker, photocopying her license and posting in with her date of birth (1931, making her 31) circled. This is an escalating little war, which Kinsey will probably lose.
Some of yall are right, Betty did call his mother. If she was going to continue anything she would of stayed quite and let him stayed there and who knows what would of happened. Do anybody really think that Betty's dad molested her when she was little? I dont know too much about strokes and how effective it is on the brain, I thought he just forgot who she was at the moment.
In season 1 when Joan is escorting Peggy to her desk for her first day and she's explaining office politics she mentions something about making mistakes with men, Paul walks by and Joan says something like, like that one. So, in the past she had a fling with Paul. Is Betty's full name Elizabeth? I think the dad or somebody called her that name. It was funny when Betty was telling Helen that she was a bad mother and what she needs to do to be a better mother. I hope Betty was listening to her own advice.
Zabadu: I get it. "Telstar" was written/recorded by the Tornadoes in 62, but the genre has had a big revival and it's since been covered by others. That's all I'm saying, thank you very much.
JulesAH and Zabadu: I used diaper service for my daughter in 1960-61, but someone posted that Pampers came out in 1962. Diaper service was probably better for the ecology.
Zabadu to Saunterer: Men didn't do WHAT back then - cheat on their wives? I had a lot of married men chasing me in 1962 and had to shoo them away.
Does anyone know if Betty's folks are in the Philadelphia area? A couple of mentions like Elkins Park Hospital came up and Elkins Park is in the Philly suburbs.
While Don and Betty are at her dad's house Don tells her "You should eat." Betty responds by telling him "No one's watching." It seems to me that Betty is finally coming to terms with what her marriage has been...a show. She knows now that she and Don can't relate to eachother on an emotional level...sexual yes, but emotional definetely no. Later on, Glenn asks Betty "Aren't you going to eat?" She responds in a totally different manner. She smiles and nibbles on some of the food. Perhaps this is because she knows that Glenn is truly concerned about her?
I do wonder now if her capricious behavior might signal signs of sexual abuse. What say you all?
I said that at the beginning.
Telstar: That was the orignal recording.
Betty is a nickname for the formal name "Elizabeth".
Paul and Joan have a wicked history of abusing each other.
Betty's conduct through all the situations was appalling at best. "I want my mother's stuff" "I hate the new wife" "We're just pretending" "Glen's savior, then turns on him" even though it was seriously creepy letting him wear Don's clothes.
I don't think Betty could handle a divorce - Don is basically all she has. She just needs power right now and the situation led to her being the power right now. But I think Don will have a little fun in L.A. once he knocks Pete down a few pegs. Hates him anyway. He defended Peggy to Pete, and now I think he's going to give him a few "lessons" while they are there.
Have to say that Jon Hamm kicks ass in that role week after week! Setting aside all the fangirlyness and bullshit....He anchors Mad Men and the show wouldn't be what it is if he didn't have the acting chops! He's always damn good when the episode is not a personal favorite.
Re: Betty, I don't think her father sexually abused her. He appears to have early-onset dementia or something. I don't think her relationship with Glen is, for her, the least bit sexual. She needs attention and still feels like a child -- and has probably spent her whole life being adored by her father and other men. (I've wondered before, however, about Don's history of abuse as a child in a post called 'Diagnosing Don.' We already know its physical). Betty allowed for the relationship to turn awkward because she needs the attention and has no one to talk to; I think she genuinely realized at the end of this episode that Glen's attention isn't just because she's beautiful, but because his mom isn't there for him.
Seems like the episodes are getting darker. Definetly agree Betty's dad resembles John Mc Cain & then there was that disturbing scence with Betty & that kid. Yes, it was creepy, but seeing Betty sitting there watching cartoons & drinking coke out of a straw showed how childlike she really is-does anyone remember a similar scene from 60's movie Lolita with Carol Lynley & James Mason?
Anyhoo, liked that the show is willing to push boundries & creep us out a little. Speaking of comparisons & character development, yes, this show does remind me a little of the Sopranos.
Kudos to January Jones (Betty), she does an amazing job.
I haven't contributed much before, I have been reading the boards but felt compelled to comment on tonight's episode.
As my hubby and I are now going through adoption process after going through years of fertility treatments, I have really come to loathe the Pete Campbell character. He can't even talk about the fertility issue w/ his wife Trudy without getting angry at her. I feel so bad for Trudy having to deal with trying to change her husband's attitude so they can have a family. Ewwww! Pete Campbell....(shaking fist)! You are such a mean one Mr. Grinch! (okay, sorry its too early for Grinch) lol! And the episode few episodes back, I hated how he acted towards his wife when they got back the results from his semen anaylsis-so cold and cruel! UGH! that comment about "do I have to put my foot down?" would not fly in my house!! boy, times have changed!
And yet when he is at his mother's house Pete Campbell seems to soften a bit....even if he is considering adoption just to anger his mother. I think his mother's comments about "the discarded ones" was so mean but I know there were those that thought about adoption like that back then. But I don't get it....back in 1962 all couples really had was adoption right?- There was no In Vitro Fertilization, not even artificial insemination to be able to help couples with fertility issues. But yet adoption was also looked down upon as well, at least by Pete Campbell's family. I believe this was said by someone before but I think Pete Campbell has a really dark side we are just getting around to see only part of it...kinda creepy when he made reference to the Hithcock movie "The Rope".
I don't think Peggy would offer up her child as her son is now 2 years old and seems like from what I've seen, Anita, Peggy's sister, is raising the child as hers right?? Plus, I have my doubts Peggy will ever mention their child to Pete since Don told her "This never happened." Gosh! I am soooooo HOOKED on this show!!! Other shows I record and watch later but I can't seem to get enough of MM. Anyone besides me watch previous episodes if they run across it during the week? It's like I can't get enough of this show!!
I’ve started several threads for this episode so that the Open Thread doesn’t end up with hundreds of comments that are all over the place in terms of content. Hopefully this will ease people’s frustration. I’ve included a brief comment about what each thread’s main idea is.
If someone asks a question in this Open Thread that is being discussed in another thread, you may wish to make a brief comment that directs people to various other threads rather than to restating yourself here so that there isn’t too much duplication. This will also reduce the number of overall posts in any one thread. Yes, there will be overlap in terms of ideas and opinions within various threads, but hopefully people won’t have to weed through comments about anything and everything the way they did last week.
If it works, we can do it again for rest of the episodes this season by simply changing the thread titles to Episode 11: ???. If people begin to create a more organized framework for reading and posting comments, they will know that there is a standard thread about each episode where they can comment on a certain topic as opposed to the Open Thread.
If this doesn’t work, well, it is at least worth a try in terms of organizing the of the threads so that people aren’t overwhelmed with hundreds of posts in a single place .
1. Go the Mad Men main page (www.amctv.com/originals/madmen)
2. Click on the link for Talk Forum in the gray window.
3. Click on the link for List of All Talk Topic Discussion Threads
4. Scan the Thread Titles and look at the descriptions so that you can click on the ones that seem to be related to what you want to read about or make a comment.
Here are the threads I started.
1. Episode 10: The Inheritance—A Walk Down 1960s Memory Lane
2. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Props Department
3. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Fashion Folder
4. Episode 10: The Inheritance—What Does the Title Mean?
5. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Who Is That Character?
6. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Notable Quotables
7. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Mad Men’s Social Commentary on the Values of the 1960s
8. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Snips and Snails and Puppy Dogs’ Tails
9. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice
13. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Theories Based on the Preview for Next Week
14. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don, Betty, Sally, and Bobbie Draper and Betty's family
16. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Peter and Trudy Campbell and their respective families
18. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Team Draper and Olson
20. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, General Discussion
21. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, I Love That Alpha Dog
22. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, I Hate You
23. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, General Discussion
24. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, I Sympathize with You
25. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, I Hate You
28. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Pete Campbell
29. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Joan Holloway
31. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Boys of Sterling Cooper
32. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Other Boys
33. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Girls in NYC and the Suburbs
34. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Working Girls, Love Interests, and Clients of Sterling Cooper
Perhaps this will help keep the Open Thread from becoming one giant blob of a thread.
Wasthere: I study the 1960s. Here is a quote from one of my research books:
In 1961, Proctor and Gamble did it with Pampers, the first affordable, fully disposable diaper. And they were well rewarded, selling $30 million worth in the first three years.
Don Draper always gets his revenge! And there's 3 more episodes for that asshat Lame Duck to finally reap what he's sown as an ingrate. SAB must pay for taking away his salt! And Pete Campbell is simply an asshole! Those 3 need to get their comeuppance because they messed over Don!
I don't think Betty's father molested her. I think he is just all messed up since the stroke (or two). He mistook Betty for his wife once... maybe he was doing it again when he groped her in front of the family... how uncomfortable.
My two favorite lines: Sal's line at the shower: '"Here's to the little one, whatever it may be." and the non sequitor "Happy Birthday" from Mr. Cooper.
wasthere: Yes, it was established in an earlier episode (maybe a couple) that Betty is from the Philadelphia area. Another Grace Kelly connection! I believe that there was even a reference to the Mainline. We're here in Philly, so we always catch those local references. Remember the Cape May reference from Season One? Someone on staff knows the area.
I think the make out moment between Betty and Draper was a dream. Not sure which one may have been dreaming it, but it looked disconnected like it was an imagination. i guess we'll never know...
The Dad did look like McCain, but much taller and healthier.
I agree that Betty should get over it and either divorce him or set some ground rules to move on. She nor him can continue like this... as a matter of fact, i think he went to CA to get over her.
Didn't she watch THE WOMEN? It had been out almost over 20 yrs back then :-)
The little boy scenes are to show us how insecure she really is and the reality of how someone could do what we've seen happen lately with teachers and their inmature students. Personnally, i'm not sure why MadMen was thought to only refer to Men -it's obviously the Women too :-).
Is it just me; but right after we blogged about the fact that none of the black people in the film ever talked, it's all changed... Great job!
And, yes... many people still feel the same way about adoption -Note... it's usually the same people that profess being ProChoice and concerned about preserving their blood line/race. Remember, people have just learned better (through diversity trng) not to say it out loud anymore.
The song is "Telstar", the original version (it has been covered all over the place and part of the melody was lifted by Blondie for their hit "Dreaming"), by The Tornados. It was one of many space-themed recordings from that period, such as "Destination Moon" and "Everyone's Gone To The Moon". It was named after our pioneering telecommunications satelitte. It is also notable for being a very early example of Phase-shifting being applied to the entire recording (as opposed to the leslie effect on the keyboard).
holy crap where do you start? ok like everyone else i had a ton to say about everything regarding the first 45 minutes. however, what a turn it took when we saw the re-emergence of glenn.
ok while general morons will be morons regarding this dynamic, at least we smart people get what it's really about.
what i really find interesting, even beyond what was the dynamic last year about how a kid is the only one immature betty can relate to, i think it went a level deeper tonight.
what the whole thing went to tonight is that in betty's eyes, little glenn is more of a real man with real feelings than big don is.
he's not a real man, but he gives her more of what the real man does: understanding. attention. caring. and did you notice two things:
1, glenn has the exact same hair don has, as in being a little yet uncorrupted don, and 2) after she takes glenn out of the play house, her hair was up and then soon after it's down and made up. she likes the attention. women do stuff like that.
another thing, notice the correlation between them in that betty hates her stopmom and glenn hates his stepdad. they're two people who speak two different languages but have something in common. which of course goes back to the original global concept of this show, which is exploring the art of dichotomy, yet sometimes unity.
but that's just me and what i observe. i've a got a bunch more and hope others do as well.
i see we're at many posts in an hour after the first airing. if it gets a little too crowded or stuffy in here you can move over to my litte thing. stick with this board first always, but if you want some breathing room we can start a little thing in addition if anyone wants. i started it with my own little opines to feel free to chime in if you want.
I haven't read all the comments, so forgive me if I am preaching to the choir, but I gotta say this episode lost me with the Betty and her boy friend interlude. That was seriously creepy, and all my maternal instincts about leapt through the screen to grab that child and give Betty a stern talking to. I bet the old family retainer, Viola, would have set her straight in a real big hurry. About the only thing good that came out of those scenes was finally seeing the kids' dog. At least we know she is safe, and Betty hasn't cooked her for the kids' dinner just to get even with Don. At this point, though, I wouldn't put it past her.
The funnier thing, from my vantage point as an unreconstructed smoker, is watching DD disappear behind a cloud of cigarette smoke just as soon as the stewardress announces that "the no-smoking light is off" and "Telstar" begins playing.
I agree with Old Fashioned to some extent. Betty's relationship with Glen may not be sexual but it is sexualized as are all Betty's relationships with men. For some reason, she is stuck in late childhood or adolescence with all her relationships--even her kids. All that can raise the possibility of abuse but it could also be the beauty queen entitlement. When she call Glen's mom and when she tells Don they were just pretending, she is growing up. I wonder if Don will join her- NOT
Liked the way Betty's dad showed his true feelings towards Don during his attack. "MY daughter live like a princess" but you can't rtrust a man who has no family. Looks like Don has proabaly exceeded pa in law on the wealth tip and paw is jealous.
What did he get a Lincoln? No a blue caddy --
Brother said -- "you and Don could afford to build dad a house behind yours -- and a shot at their back yard showed him to be true.
I don't like Shelia. And I do feel Paul and Joan had a fling and he dumped Joan. Joan is scorned. Maybe Paul is from money and for him to be so blatant with his interracial relationship, he has little to lose.
Maybe Betty was molested by dad. Because he didn't seem embarrased or say he was sorry after she pulled away.
Betty and Don conceived a 3rd child tonight is my prediction.
But I wish Don had dropped her off at home and just left. He was too eager to come back. He should have not even gone with her. Why did she call him anyway? I would have said. Let me come over and keep the kids so you can go to see about your dad.
Don cheats for several reasons, but he is not a selfish cad. He is an abused little boy, not unlike Glenn. He cheats as a coping mechanism -- under stress -- cin response to a crazy wife who is probably not sexually satisfying. EVERYONE IS DEPENDING ON HIM and he has to please.
I have renewed respect for Don. He is a coward; he is a cheater; but he wantsto do good.
Ok, please someone share with me The Glenn situation ? All i remember was Betty Slapping some Lady in a superMarket Last year episode. I do Not know how Glenn, this little Boy came into the show , a neighbor ?
This episode had one of those rare moments when Don looked unguarded and vulnerable. As upset as I am with him for messing things up by messing around, I felt so sorry for him when Betty told him to leave. He was hurt and confused, and I can't blame him for wanting to run away -- after being pushed away for so long, it seems he is letting the momentum carry him further.
Some of you folks are SO judgmental. Look, every last one of the characters does something that makes them unlikeable at times. And yes, Betty has been immature and the scenes with her father and Glen are creepy. If you'll take a deep breath before you spout off your half-baked theories of sexual abuse, pedophilia, etc. you might realize that all this is building toward something. It's a little concept known as "character development". Some of you folks need to just open a beer before the show and relax.
Now, on to a serious question: What was the magazine Don picked up on (Kinsey's?) secretary's desk before he went to Harry's baby shower? Did it have anything to do with Don's bumping Paul Kinsey off of the California trip? Or was that all about Don wanting to run away from his problems?
I couldn't make out the title (I backed up the DVR a few times); I was wondering if it was some kind of socialist and/or civil rights movement tract or something (Paul does seem to be something of a student of Marxism, or at least a poseur of one.). I guess suspicion of being a Marxist would be a good reason to keep him away from a convention of government defense contractors...
Glenn's Mom cam in as the first neighborhood divorcee. Betty invited her to Sally's B'day party and they started talking some. The other women were threatened. But Betty and the mom formed a neighborly friendship. During that course she asked Betty atthe sur of the moment one evening to come over and babysit Glenn and his sister one evening.
Betty did -- and Glenn admitted to her he had a crush and asked for a lock of Betty's hair as a keepsake. She weirdly gave him one.
Glenn's mom found out and stopped him from seeing Bettty. So tonight was the first time there was interraction since the hair gift.
Eric, it all happened in season 1 Ep 4 "New Amsterdam". Here is the synopsis from the website...
Back at Helen's, Betty and Glen watch "Gang of Outlaws" on TV when she gets up to use the restroom. As she lifts her dress and sits on the toilet, Glen opens the door and stares. She yells at him to get out. He cries, apologizes and then hugs her, much to her surprise. Moments later, he asks if he can have some of her hair. Spotting a pair of sewing scissors, she obliges his request before sending him to bed.
sirdarby: I think other posters were on to something when they suggested that Don may have abuse issues himself. He clearly has a sex addiction that probably preceded his life with Betty.
Also, remember that Joan made it clear to the audience last season that Paul "kissed and told", so I don't agree that he just dumped her. Betrayed somehow, though, yes, IMHO. I don't not like Sheila, but it kind of shows that she is not really a major character in the show. She's around to show us what Paul's really made of. And I feel like we'll find out real soon.
"Hamm, ham, Hamm, ham.'' I think the kid is precocious --
and not sexually -- tho he does say his mom's been entertainin' a lot of menfolk lately. He's a vegetarian and he reads comic books. Clearly the marks of a higher intelligence, lol.
As I said, I have not seen the first season (yet), but Betty
was giving him locks of her hair?! Is that an old Bryn Mawr
tradition, or what ??!!! lol Something's not right in Denmark.
A crush is a powerful thing in a young boy's life.
It's the very first thought of Romance a small boy has and typically is completely free of Sex thoughts as the child is simply in a dream state, Not a sexual agressive state.
adlandrefugee, I believe it was the "California" brochure that all the boys were looking at earlier in the episode when they were planning their trip. I think Don saw it on the desk and made the decision that he was going to Ca.
My impressions of about the non-dream sex…
Don’t feel bad for Don. He doesn’t really want to get back with Betty, she is boring to him and she knows that he doesn’t really desire her. They are also both completely incapable of emotionally communicating with each other, they just lack compatibility there. He wants to keep his wife, children, home, social status and the comfort he has created in that arrangement. He has been remorseful, but I think he’ll keep moving “forward”.
Maybe she was on a bit of a power trip and trying to say “see what you’re missing”, but maybe this was the first time Betty ever separated sex from love and she just felt like it ‘cause he was there. She is exploring a new role, probably as an initiator of sex, but also what it might be like to be casual about sex. I enjoyed seeing that Don gets up in the morning and she is already downstairs – he still slept on the floor (he deserves the dog house).
In the Valentine's Day episode she tells Don in bed, 'I wish you would just tell me what to do...' so she knows that she doesn't satisfy Don in bed - the affair(s) reinforce this.
Like many young women, and probably without the benefit of a lot of sexual experience, it has taken her time to grow into her own sexuality. Sadly, these two will probably grow more if they are apart.
Don's gonna have to get his power back! I don't like him being hen-pecked and a "good boy!" I like the bad-ass who takes no shit! They got three episodes to give me back Dapper Don!
I grew up in suburban Philly in the 50's and 60's. I believe they are trying to make Betty more and more like Grace Kelly every episode. This week she went to her father's home which looked a lot like a home that would be on the Main Line (a wealthy area where I believe the Kelly's lived). She is dressed and her hair is done exactly like Grace Kelly. Her father tells Don that she is a princess (Princess Grace) and he comes from no one. I read where Grace Kelly's dad insisted that she marry Prince Ranier even though she wasn't so in love with him. Grace Kelly had a brother, Jack, an athlete and well known in the Philly area. He dropped dead of a heart attack in his 40's while jogging. Her dad had a stroke and that is also what Grace Kelly herself died from. Also, when they made love, she was on top. I don't believe I've ever seen them do it in anything but the missionary position. By the way, I've read Grace Kelly was also very sexually active before her marriage. I think the writers are grooming Betty for fame. She used to be a model. She could certainly use her beauty and former modeling contacts to start a career. The casting is great on this show. She is the only female character who could actually become famous because of her beauty. The other characters are attractive women, but nothing special. Maybe she'll become a top model (like Suzy Parker) or an actress (like Grace Kelly). She would be known all over the world and be making way more money than Don. She wouldn't need him then. It wouldn't hurt for him to get a taste of his own medicine. Because, after this episode, I believe he is realizing he does love her. I'm a romantic and still hope they get back together, but Don and Betty both have to change a lot.
As for Paul and Joan ? That never happened Joan made it up to throw Paul's girl friend off. Joan would never admit any Man had her and discarded HER, She's too Proud.
The whole Betty and Glenn storyline is incredibly awkward and very creepy. I don't so much think she called Glenn's mom because she realized the reason behind Glenn's attention was that needs a mother figure, I thought she was more concerned about what would happen if he stayed. Who knows what he may have said or done once her children went to bed? As far as her being sexually abused, I can't see her being that concerned about someone who abused her as a child. That kind of thing sticks with you and hardens you. I reelly hope thats the end of her and Glenn.
The whole Betty and Glenn storyline is incredibly awkward and very creepy. I don't so much think she called Glenn's mom because she realized the reason behind Glenn's attention was that needs a mother figure, I thought she was more concerned about what would happen if he stayed. Who knows what he may have said or done once her children went to bed? As far as her being sexually abused, I can't see her being that concerned about someone who abused her as a child. That kind of thing sticks with you and hardens you. I reelly hope thats the end of her and Glenn.
I agree with you GuySmiley. Don and Betty's abusive backgrounds were attraction points -- so interesting that the family maid was the actual one who raised Betty. Telling how she told Betty to practically forget about her dad and focus on Don and her kids. So I think the maid knows the full story about Betty and Don and she is giving the best advice after knowing the full story about the family history.
Betty does not seem like she came from a family where a child out of wedlock is usual. She comes from some level of wealth -- and her dad is so venomous towards Don. He may have been abusing Betty and she got pregnant so he'd leave her alone. From the frying pan to the flame.
Ahh...I didn't make that connection to the California brochure. You're probably right. That supports the theory that Don went on the trip to run away from his domestic troubles.
I guess I'm a little disappointed; I was wondering if Paul's political/civil rights involvement and interracial relationship are about to damage his career. Or maybe he just gets his butt kicked by rednecks at the protest rallies. I'm sure we'll find out soon.
I grew up in suburban Philly in the 50's and 60's. I believe they are trying to make Betty more and more like Grace Kelly every episode. This week she went to her father's home which looked a lot like a home that would be on the Main Line (a wealthy area where I believe the Kelly's lived). She is dressed and her hair is done exactly like Grace Kelly. Her father tells Don that she is a princess (Princess Grace) and he comes from no one. I read where Grace Kelly's dad insisted that she marry Prince Ranier even though she wasn't so in love with him. Grace Kelly had a brother, Jack, an athlete and well known in the Philly area. He dropped dead of a heart attack in his 40's while jogging. Her dad had a stroke and that is also what Grace Kelly herself died from. Also, when they made love, she was on top. I don't believe I've ever seen them do it in anything but the missionary position. By the way, I've read Grace Kelly was also very sexually active before her marriage. I think the writers are grooming Betty for fame. She used to be a model. She could certainly use her beauty and former modeling contacts to start a career. The casting is great on this show. She is the only female character who could actually become famous because of her beauty. The other characters are attractive women, but nothing special. Maybe she'll become a top model (like Suzy Parker) or an actress (like Grace Kelly). She would be known all over the world and be making way more money than Don. She wouldn't need him then. It wouldn't hurt for him to get a taste of his own medicine. Because, after this episode, I believe he is realizing he does love her. I'm a romantic and still hope they get back together, but Don and Betty both have to change a lot.
Adlandrefugee: It wasn't a magazine, it was a travel brochure on Los Angeles - Kinsey and Pete both had them because of their upcoming trip to the convention in California.
I loved Betty's Dad's line to Don "You act like it's nothing"....
And also his "He has no people" line about Don. Ironic that the man with the memory issues seems to hit those 2 issues right on the head.
I love how Don calls Betty "Birdie",
What a BITCH Betty is saying "Stop it Don, nobody's watching" when he shows concern about her getting something to eat
I'm glad someone else noticed the "nothing happened" comment about Glenn. That was creepy. NOT something one mother would say to another about a child. Very definitely something one would say about someone else's husband though. CREEPY!
On a side note Weiner's son who plays Glenn is brilliant. The kid shows incredible range and you can feel his pain.
Loved loved loved "Telstar" at the end too with the sun rising on Don's face, perfect match.
This episode wasn't as explosive as I anticipated..that being said..
Part of the 1960's and the ensuing cultural movements included women's lib. Betty's role is to show how many women felt and were treated, what was expected of them and from them. Times would be changing soon, as we all know gender roles is a constant theme in the show. Betty's character portrays a stereotype that would be given an opportunity to change.
Don as well will be changing, I believe that is why the final scene is him looking out the window of the plane, the sun illuminating his eyes, while Pete next to him has a blindfold on.
Those that love the NYNY ol' boy of 1950's DD may as well watch season 1 over and over on DVD. The show will be taking turns away from this. I have no predictions, but I have a feeling each character will wind up eons away from where we took up with them. Isn't that the moral of the 60's and counterculture movement???
Visan
I agree!! Don is our 60's J.R. Ewing(with a little more complexity) and Betty is Sue Ellen(finally showing a little backbone). JR was never quite the same after Sue Ellen threw him out of South Fork. We need Don to get back to "business"!
xolotls58er: I totally disagree that an abused child would not be concerned for their parent. I think that the actual fact that they're still concerned for people who do such harm to them is what messes them up so badly and allows for the compartmentalization.
I just know that from a couple of experiences I had knowing women who had histories in which their father's had a sexual relationship with them. I think that's makes it so hard to get over or even come to terms with.
When a good friend of mine finally came to a point where she could be truthful about what her father was doing in the family, it basically caused a rift where she never spoke to him again. She's a stronger, more self-actualized person now. But before, she was trying to be a good daughter and wipe that out.
So I do not agree with that. Betty might still have a lot of concern for her father, in spite of abuse.
It isn't necessary for Betty's father to have sexually abused her to explain his and Betty's behavior. He's demented and she's learning to assert herself (albeit in some underhanded and clumsy ways).
THERE IS NO INCEST HERE, PEOPLE. What's happening is much more subtle and interesting than that. Now either pay attention, or go watch the FOX network.
As much as I like bad-ass Don Draper, he's gotta kick several more asses to even be in "J.R. Ewing" realm! And I disagree about the "Sue Ellen" comparison. She didn't creep me out with little boys hanging out at the Ewing Ranch!
I want Don in bad-ass mode again! Betty drags this man down!!
I think Betty treated Don exactly the way he deserves to be treated on tonight's episode. After all, she's known for awhile that he's been cheating on her. He still lies about it and you know, if she would have let him come home, he would be right back out cheating next week, probably in LA.
Madlib: Lolita was played by Sue Lyon, not Carol Linley.
Phillygirl: Although I lived in North Jersey the majority of my life, I moved to the Philly suburbs (Ft. Washington) 10 years ago.
Sir Darby: What is not to like about Sheila???
Zabadu: Why didn't I know about Pampers at the time -- I used everything that was the latest like Enfamil vs. making my own formula and thought diaper service was the latest.
Zabadu: Re Alzheimers: My parents had a friend who was a very dignified banker, but when he got the sickness he began to expose himself to others. Very sad.
I search the civil rights marches and Freedom riders Deaths... I couldn't find Paul Kinsey name as someone who was killed. I think up-coming episode he'll be beaten up , either in the City or while down south.
I searched the civil rights marches and Freedom riders Deaths... I couldn't find Paul Kinsey's name as someone who was killed. I think up-coming episodes he'll be beaten up , either in the City or while down south.
Visan
Wasn't thinking about the little boy aspect as I was thinking about the "drinking" Betty's been doing since she threw Don out the house. As for the JR comment it was just the philandering he did certainly not the dirty under-handed business ethics. I don't think any character can compare to JR on that level.
How about the line Betty said to Glenn's mom talking about Don, "he takes the kids out to dinner, they've suddenly become important to him." Not sure I got the line exactly. I do think Don loves his kids, but I also think he may be using the dinner dates as an excuse to see Betty also.
As for Paul Kinsey going South ... everyone and myself think he'll be in a fight or something. However , I have never read of anyone on here predicting Correctly any events in an up-coming episode. We're probably all wrong about Paul getting into a fight. I think his Girl will see thru his attempts to be interested in the civil rights movement, surely.
Even in 2008, there are still people who are uncomfortable with a black woman and white man dating. I'm not saying this is anyone on this forum, but there are people who just don't like that particular interracial coupling. It's this nuttiness of thinking a white man has rejected the "beauty standard" by falling in love with a sista. It's 2008 and people need to get the fuck over that!
I've read on the netz how this week's show Carla, Sheila and Hollis are being dissed. These characters had a total of 6 lines or less. How are those 3 taking over Mad Men!?
eric, the "Glenn situation" is this: In season 1
Helen called Betty to babysit Glenn and her baby while she went to help at the Kennedy Election headquarters. Betty had to rush up finishing cooking dinner for her family to go help Helen but she did so. She and Glenn were watching TV and he started complimenting her (1st hint of Creepy Deluxe coming) She needed to go to the bathroom and was looking through a drawer and saw a diaphragm (I think!) and other stuff I forgot...anyway she neglected to lock the door and soon (as she had just sat on the "throne" and began to pee, the door opened and there stood Glenn. He just kept standing there staring at her and she had to get up and go over to the door and shut it! When she came out he was contrite and she lectured him gently about that room being private and then he hugged her and she hugged him (in a completely motherly way) then he asked her for a lock of her hair which she reluctantly gave him (cut it with the scissors which were in the sewing basket on the ironing board---his mother, Helen, paid him to iron! So Helen returns and gives Betty a Kennedy pamphlet and a few episodes later Helen and Betty are grocery shopping and Betty calls out a hello to her and Helen ignores her. Then she goes ahead and says hello to Betty anyway and mentions she was trying to ignore her to which Betty shows astonishment. Helen tells her she can't understand how she could have given her son a lock of her hair (she ran across it in his "treasure box") because "hes only nine years old"(or whatever age) Betty resents Helen insinuating she's out of line and slaps Helen. That is the history of Helen and Betty's situation regarding Glenn. Probably missed some things or remembered them wrong. but that's the gist of it.
SC fan ... I remember that slap it was as Quick as Don punching Jimmy Barret. Those Drappers are quick handed, like the Dad groping his Daughter , Quick !!
Visan: I sympathize with Sheila, and I'm happy with how the black characters have made their presence in the show, but seriously, don't think for a second that Paul is earnestly interested in pursuing a complete relationship with Sheila. He's a windbag limousine liberal who's using that poor girl as a prop.
I personally think that Viola and Carla are more important and meaningful characters than little Sheila. I even find Hollis more intriguing than Sheila.
Meanwhile, you know full well in 2008 that a lot of people are still harbor racism. It's nutty to many, but you know that to a lot of people, white supremacy makes a lot of sense. Acceptable? No. But that is truly the way it is.
Also, I don't think a lot of viewers were expecting the characters of this show to gradually realize the limits of the charmingly sexist, homogenous bubble of the early '60s. All of the characters are being prepared to jump into a new era and I think a lot of viewers are just plain uncomfortable with what they know is coming.
I know this is far fetched because the show centers mostly around Don but...Who is Cooper asking in the office if they were leaving?" I know we see Roger having that talk with Duck(not pulling his wight in clients)...But Don & the "new horizon" in LA leaving behind Betty maybe thinking he should start a new like Freddy. Is this too left field?
I guess the comparison between Betty's dad and McCain is unfair -- Bets's pop only has the one house after all, although he has a better grasp of reality than McCain, not to mention infinitely more spring in his step.
@oldfashioned: I caught that too, when Betty said "we were just pretending"; I thought she could easily have been referring to their entire marriage and not just for the trip.
@stephanie jo: Channing Chase is listed in the credits for "Flight 1" as "Dorothy Campbell" (Pete's mom)
People can like or dislike a character for whatever reasons. It's just that some folks, not necessarily on the AMC forum, are claiming they don't like Sheila and Paul for bogus reasons and I think it goes deeper than that. This has not one thing to do with this particular blog or posters. I don't make personal attacks! But on other Mad Men boards, there's a racial element to disliking the Paul/Sheila pairing. It's rather sad....
Eric - Why would you search for something happening to a tv character created in 2007? Are any of the other characters on the show fully named for a real life person? Just wondering.
several of you guys have mentioned a preview with Pete and Don saying something about a "vacation". Could you point me to it or was it after the episode?
What's so wonderful about MM is that you do like or dislike characters!! I really don't like Pete, but I can't wait for more of Pete. I like Don, yet I hate Don. I like Betty, yet I hate Betty. Can't believe what Peggy had done, yet I still root for her to succeed. That's what's so great about MM. I've never felt so much pain, anger, happiness, and shock for tv characters before.
NEED HELP. In what episode did Betty slap Glen's mom at the supermarket? I thought I had seen all of last season's episodes and don't remember that scene.
For those that are discussing the Glen/Betty relationship: I was weirded out from last season's episode in which Betty held his hand as he was sitting in a car. She said something like "I don't have anyone to talk to." She also said something to the effect that she didn't care that she wasn't supposed to be talking to him.
I don't know where this relationship with Glen is heading or what exactly the writers are implying but it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
I do think Betty was molested by her father when she was a child. That line that he'll "take her out for a milkshake" made it appear as if they'd done this before: he gropes her and then he treats her to a milkshake.
Does anyone else think the actor that played Betty's dad was deliberately chosen because of his resemblance to McCain? In my opinion the resemblance is too striking to be a coincidence. They even had him dressed like McCain. On more than one occasion I've seen McCain tieless with a blue blazer and light blue shirt.
One of the great things about this show is the way the characters interact with real world events of the 1960s. The way it time stamps each episode and transports us back to a supposed “simpler time.” So I wonder how many of you/us are still going to love this show when season four 1966-67 looks and feels nothing like seasons one and two?
The world is changing around these characters whether they like it or not. Therefore they must change as well. This nostalgic Camelot of the early 1960’s where all the ladies still wear white gloves, every man dons a Fedora and a “colored” person's only occupational opportunities are as a maid or bus boy are going away. And going away soon. Lest ye forget the drastic changes (with lightening speed) this decade has in store. It was really like three decades in one.
In less than five years we’re going to go from those adorable clean-cut lads from Liverpool that took our minds off the tragedy of JFK, to four long-haired mustachioed hippie genius’ that claimed to more popular than Jesus, and were blamed for everything from the popularity of LSD to the crumbling of western civilization. We'll go from the utter shame of having a baby out of wedlock to having no shame whatsoever making love in the streets of Haight-Ashbury. The country will go from JFK to Tricky Dick Nixon. From a little conflict called Vietnam to a big freakin’ problem called Vietnam. And by the end of the decade we will have gone from talking about going to the moon to actually walking on it. A lot happened REALLY quickly during the 1960s. So where does that leave the current 1962 world of Mad Men?
Many of these characters cannot remain, as we currently know them. The ones you now love, you may learn to hate and vice versa. New characters will be introduced, old ones will have to go. People actually did die in the civil rights era you know. (Sorry Kinsey.) What happens to a guy like Roger? He may be the first to lose everything. Do Don and Betty stay together or do they help remove the stigma from divorce? When does that baby not so conveniently show back up in Peggy’s life? Who becomes a hippy other than the two Draper kids? And just how exactly does Sterling-Cooper implode? I predict the show changes drastically and many of you won’t hang around for the ride.
The agency setting will always be central to the show but it’s obvious (at least to me) that the visual world of the show will expand and the current crop of characters attitudes, motivations, beliefs and morals are going to change with the times as well. They have to. The decade demands it.
I agree with SirDarby-I don't like Sheila - what's the big deal? She's needy & whiney so far. UGH.
I'm curious that Visan wants the action to get back to the office but makes a fuss over "doll" Sheila who is not working in the office. Why do you like Sheila so much?
Don is a good man. He is complex and multi-faceted. You can see it in so many ways. his compassion for Freddie, recognizing Peggy's abilities and promoting a mere secretary, a rare occurance in 1962. So unlike Roger, maybe Don will promote Joan. It's good to see the vulnerabilities in Don.
Don't forget he already threw Betty and the kids away twice now.... once with that ugly skank mistress #1 when he wanted to chuck it all and go to Paris. Then with the elegant Miss Menken when Pete discovered Dick Whitman.
Don has been a real a dog to his wife, but he is changing. I think deep down he loves Betty and that's as it should be.
Betty's character is interesting right now. She is getting stronger. She is getting curious about the mystery man she married. Everything that has happened is partly her fault and she knows it. She married a man she does not know. She's giving Don clues that he's just not getting. She wants to be romanced and she's patiently waiting to hear that declarative sentence "I Love You" and the actions that go with it. The grand gesture Roger spoke of....that Don loves her, maybe a kobe bryant piece of jewelry, is that too much? She wants to be swept off her feet. She does not want to go back to the status quo. She wants honesty. How did they get together in the first place? Can they go back there? He'll have to win her back and she realizes Don may not be capable of such a thing. She is slowly preparing herself to go on without him. I want them to stay together!!!!
This is only an observance, not political, but YES, that guy who plays Betty's dad TOTALLY looks like John McCain. And OUCH, did I feel bad for Betty when her dad felt her up! Totally losing it. Is that behavior from a stroke or is it Alzheimers?
And I felt sorry for Glenn. Not to get pervy, but its obvious that Betty and Glenn have a connection. And good for Betty for doing the right thing before she could be brought up on molestation charges. I think Glenn is there to highlight the absolute loneliness and desperation for attention she feels.
Well, I hope everything turns out okay for Kinsey.
Donwant,
If I'm not mistaken Don met Betty through work. She was a model on a photo shot. I believe he snared her by giving her the fur coat she was modeling.
I believe his last ep. was great. The creepyness of the Glen/Betty scenes are just overshadowing what is really happening. Someone said it earlier and was right. Betts needs attention. She is emotionally still a child in many ways. When she calls her son a "little liar" or her daughter "fat" she is acting like a child. There are so many scenes when you can see she is just a little lost girl. So when you see her fathers dementia get the best of him and he grabs her it is not so unrealistic to think that she may have been molested as a child. Even that little girl voice she speaks with betrays someone who is emotionally stuck at an age when they were abused.
Many have mocked the actress for being a weak part, but there are many layers that have not been peeled away yet. Much like all of the characters in this show you cannot take them at face value.
hasn't anyone noticed that Don is starting to appreciate women's intellect... first with "Joan holding down the fort" and with "[Peggy] should go to California instead" when he finds out the bozo boys haven't read her research on the Congressional pork angle... is this because he's no longer with Betty...? This classic sexism is fantastic. Head Secretary Joan has to "train" a male replacement as script reader who probably gets paid more and a better title and Peggy is called a copywriter when she's a researcher....and parked in the xerox room. This is how it was. And strangely, in many offices, today, it still is this way, but in new forms... Check out your office and see who is really doing all the work and gets a lesser title and paycheck.
I'm not sure about Bets having a history of sexual abuse but I don't think she is going to pursue some inappropriate relationship with Glenn. She is lonely and full of sadness, confusion and she is desperate for attention. Glenn, although very young, is a person she can relate too. Both feel misunderstood and unappreciated by their family/loved ones. Neither of them have an outlet or a person they can confide in who will really understand their feelings (Her shrink sits there and doesn't say anything). They both felt an instant connection, as their solace was clearly visible to each other. However, Bets calls Glenns mother and after they spoke she realizes that Glenn can't be the person to "rescue" her.
Bettie knows that by calling Glenns mother, she has broken Glenns trust and literally put Glenn back into his terribly unfortunate situation. He no longer has anyone who understands him anymore, and she understands too that when he says he hates her now, she knows its true. She betrayed him. I think Glenn will of course continue to play a roll here but bettie will not try to seduce him/or let her self be seduced by him.
I did also find it interesting that Bettie found the courage to talk to Glenns mom about how Don is not living at the house. She has kept this a secret from everyone, including her brother and closest friends. Glenns mom helps her to understand that she needs to find a way to be strong now, and that in reality she controls her life. Early in the conversation Bettie says that without Don their to hold her down, she feels like she might float away. After her discussion with Glenns mom, she seems much more grounded now and prepared for anything. Don on the other hand seems as if he is floating away without bettie, as he is essentially running away to california for at least a week. Don and Bettie seem to be reversing roles, with their confidence and calm.
Lucky Strike- You are right on about how the times changed so fast, but I think it would be a diservice if the show's characters evolved as quickly as the era they lived in. It would be too typical to have the office environment change every year to match the times. Remember, people didn't evolve that quickly. My mother worked in the airline industry in the early 70's, which was a pretty racey bunch of people. Even though they were fairly progressive and worldy through all of thier travels, they were still pretty backwards. It was still a man's world and all of management was men. Everyone slept around and drank a bunch and smoked. Even though the fashion and hairstyles were current the office politics were the same as Sterling-Cooper circa 61. I think the show would be even more fun if the characters evolved a little behind the times as most of us do in real life. I think the best example of that was from season one when you would see Don hanging out with his beatnik girlfriend and her bunch. That was what those times seemed like. One group trying to change things whil another was desperatley hanging onto the status quo.
Don's got that loyalty thing (except for Betty) going at least in the office. I think Don feels ill-served by Roger (for taking the heat from Mona for their breakup), and I almost think that their friendship has been damaged somehow for good.
I think Don may be ready to give up on Betty, and is going to Los Angeles on a scouting trip of his own to see what his prospects would be there in business.
The whole fiasco with Roger (and now Bert who really came across as senile after Harry's party) has prompted Don to start thinking of starting over, I think. Home's not good; work's not good; his one real "friend", Roger, has gone over the falls; Bert's lost it. So, why not?
I disagre with many of you regarding Betty...I see her as self-assured, poised, secure and decisive. She's confident in her roles as daughter, wife, mother and friend and though she seems a little frosty or removed at times, her ability to detach is probably the reason she is able , in my opinion, to handle each role as beautifully and effectively as she does. She refuses to be one of Don's "throw-aways", and so doesn't give a second thought to kicking him out, she is a true and honest friend and so has no problem standing up for herself in response to Glen's mother and her disgusting acusation in the supermarket. And, yes, Glen is more than a little creepy, but Betty, as usual knows the right thing to do and does it. I think she's terrific!
@Donwant: Sheila's character I want to learn more about. Why do you care that I'd like to see her character be fleshed out?
Paul's an obnoxious character. But even obnoxious Mad Men characters usually have a redeeming side. Maybe he went on that bus, spouting ad crap no-one gave a damn about. But he got on the bus! And I can name 3 real-life Civil Rights workers who did NOT get out alive signing up voters...James Chaney, Mickey Schwerner and Andrew Goldman!
I don't wish to confuse fact and fiction. And I'm not sure why anyone would assume a fake ad guy would be listed as a name on actual Civil Rights workers slain in the 1960s. Paul may be pretentious as hell but he showed a lot of guts, even though it was "forced" upon him. I'm sure if he didn't want to attend the bus ride, he could've come up with a lie. After all, he's in advertising!
Re: the relationship between Betty and Glenn: has anyone every seen the "Summer of 42" and "the Inkwell" ? While now soley about the matter of adolescent boys in sexual relationships with older women each movie as as a subtext this dynamic....so it's nothing new or particularly creepy....we tend to bring those post 80s sensibilities of child sexual abuse into these 60s and earlier situations...Glenn is not 9 anymore he is about 13 I would think and while it is obvious that he has a crush on Betty which may or may not have sexual dimensions ...it seem to me at least, that Betty is not attempting to seduce him but rather comfort him in his loneliness...
Trouble is Betty herself is quite adolecent and I don't think she is at all becoming more mature...she sleeps all morning and drinks for the remainder of the day while Carla takes care of the house and the children...her father's illness is more upsetting to her because he can no longer be "his little girl" than it is that he is suffering discomfort and pain....all she can relate to Viola is that "now she is an orphan" ...what absolute dribble!....I have to admit that last season I was a great defender of the Betty character; now however she get on my last one good nerve...such a waste of potential...she could try joining the PTA at Sally and Billy's school; and while Don is a dashing cad of guy she just gave up the opportunity to become the junior grande dame of New York City's social set with Don being officially accepted into the old boys network of charity benefits....it would have been her role as corporate wife to sit on all those charity committies and plan and execute galas etc.....I am surprised she didn't see this advantage to silently accepting Don's infidelity...she could have had herself a hot affair with some corporate titian.
just my 2 cents worth
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I think Paul jumping on that bus (in fact everyone from the North jumping on a bus headed South) shows just how naive Northerners were about how truly violent racial tensions had become in the Southern states. Remember, none of that dog biting-water cannon stuff was on TV yet. Hearing about someone being shot is one thing. Seeing it or being shot at yourself is quite another. And just as it would with the Vietnam war, TV showed the world the difference between hearing about something horrible and seeing it for yourself.
Also, I’m not hating on Paul the way so many of you seem to be. What ever his reasons for being with Sheila, at least he’s not embarrassed to be seen with her or claim/present her as his woman. Paul also has the balls to risk his life and get his lily white behind on that bus to fight the rights of others. And giving a damn about someone else is not an action I see very many other characters on this show participating in. So nevermind why he is with Sheila or how he ended up on the trip. He’s doing both of his own free will, and at that time, probably risking a lot doing so.
BTW Visan, the name was Andrew Goodman. Not Goldman.
Hi fellow Maddicts! Whew!! I couldn't read each post in this section completely, so please excuse me if I repeat.
I am pretty sure Don had a dream about Betts having sex with him.
The scene where she is taking the bed apart showed a close up of that chenille bedspread that was on the bed.
During his "dream" he sees her removing the bedspread and covering them in it. Then he wakes up in the am, and the camera shows the same bedspread tucked in very neatly, the way it was when she went to bed. Her side of the bed hardly looks slept in.
That's how I decided it was a dream.
Yes, after the first episode with Glen and Betty, I kept saying something is wrong with that relationship. Remember the "bathroom scene"?
I still can't figure it out...I do remember Glen telling her she "looked like a princess" in that episode. And last night he tells her he "is there to rescue her". Like he is her Prince Charming. And the hand holding??? Thank God Carla and the kids showed up...too weird!
It is not unusual for some people who have strokes to develop dementia, like Betty's father. I think he really thought she was his deceased wife at times.
But, who knows, maybe there is "a dirty little secret" there?
What the hell was Paul doing spouting off "ad speak" on the bus on the way to D.C. with Shelia?
I think it was his feeble attempt to "fit in". Saying something stupid like "advertsing has no color boundaries"? Oh brother...
I do hope the MM writers focus on the D.C. rally, it was a huge historical event. And really brought the Civil Rights movement into main stream America.
The adoption issue with Pete's mother is interesting. IF Peggy did have his child, and he finds out, that will be the way he can have a child, and his family inheritance, whatever is left.
I found it interesting in the scene where Pete, his brother, and their mother were signing the legal
papers, that she made a comment to Pete about not getting his part of the inheritance if he adopts a child. In other words, he will be breaking the "blood line".
OK...off to more threads!
I think there were alot of clues that not only was Don's history bad but so was Bettys. When Betty says to Violet.."He doesn't know who I am," and Violet responds, "He's a very sick Man." Betty is relieved and responds she's glad other people realize that. I think she was referring to Don as well as her father.
There's a vibe Betty may have been sexually abused and she definatley has Princess isues. Her father yells that Don married a Princess and Glen admits he's come to rescue her.
I think in the end it may be Betty who tries to rescue Don. I think maybe Betty sees a young Don in Glen and because she's been supressed and is rather childish, she's helping him in a way that may seem inappropriate but ultimately is loving (in a non-sexual way).
I think Don and Betty definatly had sex, not a dream sequence, although it probably had a dream like quality to Don when he woke and she wasn't there.
I hope Betty is finding her sexuality and throwing away all her chidish ideals of rescue (like the nic-nacs her step-mother was giving away) Through loss of her inheritance, maybe she's lost her ignorance...When was "The Feminine Mystique" published? She could use a copy.
@Lucky Strike: Thanks for the correction of the last name.
I hope that my misspelling of Mr. Goodman's name hasn't taken away from the point I tried making that no matter what Paul's intentions, he and Sheila (and others) faced a real danger in going to register voters.
Lucky Strike and Visan: both your points are very well taken I believe that Paul even discussing going South to register voters is an incredible testimony to their relationship and I am someone who was active in the second wave of the contemporary civil/human rights movement - I know first hand what is is like to be in a small town with the Klan meeting up the road and the lights and phone going out at the same time just as their big klavern meeting is beginning; I know what it feels like to have mace in your eyes and try finding your way home through police on horseback "controlling the crowds" during a march. Paul may have opted to go on the march on a "humbug" as a alternative to not going to California and he is certainly doing the "arrogant white boy" thing with his conversation on the bus...but he is about to find out what the real deal is....and he in his own way is trying to venture out of his "zone of comfort" with this relationship with Sheila...and I do like the character of Sheila..who is perhaps the most unabashedly self actualized woman on this show since Midge...she is intelligent, articulate, and seemingly well educated and in all probability a child of the black middle class as she is a resident of Montclair, NJ during the 50s and 60s and it's my understanding that during that period Montclair was a middle class suburb of New York City.....I that that facial language that passed between she and Hollis when Paul told Hollis to call him by his first name as though he had ever even acknowledged Hollis' existense before that time...Sheila rolled her eyes as if to say "Negro Pleeze!"
Visan, point taken on Paul -- I agree, he gets on the bus; and he isn't just like Harry saying people should just 'watch more TV' and not think about racial strife. I actually really like Paul's character despite his occasional buffoonery (he's always late for meetings, so he's a kindred spirit to me), and I think his affections for Sheila are genuine. There is an element of his relationship with her that's driven by trying to be hip, but his heart's in the right place. I also don't see the dislike for Sheila; I think she's very sweet and handled pretty ugly comments with Joan with grace.
Regarding the dream notions, there were several times I thought people were having dreams, including the tryst in Princess Birdie's room. But to me it all appeared to be real.
Lastly, it hurt seeing Don get kicked out that last time. He didn't walk out with the strut that greytone has pointed out that last time.
@Fashioned: I think some of the Sheila hate comes from some people's discomfort with watching a white man fall for a black woman. So many posters think Sheila's a pretty woman and intelligent. But let's be real, there are some wacky folks watching Mad Men, who take umbrage with a black lady presented as an object of admiration and beauty.
As to the floor sex, I think Don was trying to screw his way back into the home he paid for! Don's not above using his sexuality to get things done! But SAB just might have cut off her nose to spite her face with this final dismissal. Don's a survivor! And if that means he has to fly to L.A. to get away from his wife's bullshit, he'll do it. Frankly, I'm hoping Don taps some California Girl ass and smokes some California grass! The man deserves some fun!
Did anyone notice Peggy's mention of "my nephews"? I think that is confirmation that the baby seen in earlier episodes is her sister's and that hers was put up for adoption.
Stigmas regarding adoption in the 60's? You better believe it! As one of those "discards" that was pulled in January 1962 from Catholic Charities, I know what I'm talking about. And it hasn't changed all that much, Angelina notwithstanding. I actually had a coworker express surprise that I had kept in touch with my brother because we weren't natural brother and sister! Actually, though, I'm kind of glad the show expresesed some negative views of adoption. Everyone thinks it's so wonderful, and aspects of it are, but there is definitey a dark side to the whole thing, and that needs to be expressed and examined too.
In fact, one of the things that compells me to watch MM is the depiction of life in the early 1960s and seeing a recreation of the world my birthmother lived in.
As a few people here pointed out - the closing song when Don and Pete are on the plane was Telstar. I clapped when I heard it as it was so appropriate.
Telstar was the name of the satellite made by Bell Labs in NJ. It was one of the first telecommunications satellites used to transmit telephone and other high speed data. It went up in 1962. The problem it had was that it didn't have a geosynchronous orbit. It didn't orbit at the same speed as the earth's rotation. It was only over the US for about 20 min at a time and that was the only time it could be used.
The next year the Hughes corporation out there in LA where Don and Pete were headed would make another satellite called Syncom. It had a geosynchronous orbit so it orbited so it stayed over the US the whole time and was more useful.
To me the use of the song meant a new age both for aerospace out west and for Don. It was very cool indeed.
I thought Betty intiated sex with Don on the floor. I must have been watching a different show.
She was using her sexuality, not the other way around. A power play that may have confused him. He seemed to warmly kiss her in the morning but she rebuffed him...as she did at the house when they returned .Open your mind to the nuances the writers are presenting. Your unabashed hatred of Betty seriously clouds your posts.
@Smp65: You got the wrong poster today! The calm, cool Visan is not present at the moment! You don't tell me what I saw or how to interpret a scene! Stop being a damn "stan" for Betty!
So we're about 300 posts in and already we have people wanting to ask what happened to Peggy's baby, and still identifying the Telstar song. Please read the posts, BEFORE you post to avoid repetition and redundance. And as for Peggy's baby, NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE. Can we please just wait and see what the writers have in store for us?
I might have to move over to Greg's site after all...
i thought they did indeed have sex on the floor, even though at first i thought it was a dream. don went to sleep with a t-shirt on, and when he woke up the next morning, it was off, so that's what leads me to believe it really did happen, and would explain why he was so befuddled at the end when betty asked him to leave again -- he probably thought that her initiating sex meant things were better.
What a rich, deep episode! One of the things I love about this show is that it’s a treasure trove of deep meanings and themes, like classic literature. I don’t mean soap opera tricks, like “is Betty going to molest Glenn?” or “Is Joan pregnant?”, but things like Betty’s gradual coming into adult responsibility.
I think her coming to Don in the night in her old bedroom is part of her ambivalence about growing up…and how many of us still feel like kids when we visit our old family homes? But she also knew that one night of reconciliation and closeness wouldn’t make Don any different. He’s still the closed-off person, the forever unavailable (emotionally, that is) male.
I’m so glad that Glenn reappeared in this episode; last season I was left wondering about what he and Betty’s odd connection was all about. Now I see that it’s part of Betty’s coming-into-adulthood story…she’s no longer the person that she was, attracted to that odd little lost boy (because she felt lost). Now she does the adult thing, calling Glenn’s mom, although in the beginning you can see that she still wants to be in that protected little world with him—her the fairy princess helping the wayward lost boy. And I think she’s out of her depression now—and she’ll start acting more responsibily herself with her own children.
And her telling Don to leave again is part of that journey to responsibility…while Don retreats again, this time to California.
Mad Men Suze, yes Grace Kelly did die in an auto accident in Monaco, but medical records showed she had suffered a stroke right before the accident. Remember the controversy surrounding who was driving the car at the time because the car was speeding? Stephanie (her daughter) said she was driving, but some think Grace was driving.
Visan: Black and white dating... and marriage is the ONLY thing that will finally erase the race question from forms of the future. Eventually if black and white and hispanic and middle-eastern mix it up, think of what beautiful dhildren. That would finally bring the end of racism as we know it. If there is no definite race, how can there be racism?
VestFriendsGirl: Me too! I was born in 1956 and adopted out via Catholic Social Services to a childless couple that eventually had 4 more of their own. I was never introduced as their "adopted daughter" ever. Adoption was very common back then and it was not a stigma at all.
Having read a post here that said Glenn is played by Matt Weiner's son, I now understand that entire story lline with Glenn and Betty. There are no juicy acting parts for kids in this show and (considering Matt's son is a pretty good llittle actor), they decided to create a good part for him. Betty got drawn into it because, as Glenn told her when he asked for a lock of her hair, "you look like a princess." Just another reference to my Betty becoming Grace Kelly theory (see above). I really don't think this story line is going to get any creepier. I think Glenn is a lonely boy who doesn't feel he has any parents. His mom is running around withi men and not paying any attention to him, his dad is married to a mean woman. He's lonely and has a crush on Betty. The writers have made sure that Betty has done nothing really innappropriate with Glenn. This episode had Betty and Glenn's mom talking about being good mothers and having to "take charge" because neither has a husband anymore. I think Betty is maturing into her own woman, which leaves no room for her to do anything "creepy" with a child. But Glenn will continue the crush because he's Matt's kid.
Whatever that means, you're schizophrenic?
It's just a show, a well written show, but a show.
Sometimes preconceived notions or one's personal bigotry can cloud judgement and make for irrational posts. Don't let this forum 'jump the shark' , because of your hatred for a fitionalized character.
Perhaps Betty's character slept with Don to get pregnant...who knows, but I don't think the writers penned that as a personal affront to you, Visan I and Visan II
I don't think adoption was necessarily frowned upon in the 60s, but I do think that the upper crust felt (in general) about it the way Pete and his mother do. Pete's name is extremely important to him---he is from a famous old NY family. "Breeding" is important to these people. Adoption would mean bringing in lower-class blood (most probably) into the family (they didn't think about it in terms of "genes" in those days, but as "blood).
Frankly, I am ashamed of Betty. She needs to begin appreciating how fortunate she is. Usually, when guys are going outside the home for sex, it means that they are not getting it from their wife.
@Smp65: I try to stay on a level of no personal attacks. But you want to take it there, for some bizarre reason! Since you are so into deciphering my posts, you'll know that I never confuse the character with the actor. Nor would I take a storyline as a "personal affront!" Your being such a "stan" for a fake character is unhealthy. And despite your rudeness, I truly hope you have a
good life!
I haven't read all the posts on here (yet) but did anyone else crack up when Glen asked if he could use the bathroom? I swore Betty was going to ask if she could watch - but instead she said "wash" (his clothes for him). That scene between them was incredible and revealed a TON about Betty. More deep enlightenment from me later.
Wouldn't it be funny if my real name was stan? Anyway, I don't know what that means, never knew what SAB meant and I wouldn't go so far as to say I decipher your posts as you make your views and feelings extremely apparant...it doesn't take much to figure them out.
I feared that instead of discussing the show, some posters would just shout out anything for shock value or try bait others.
It's a shame because this is a cleverly written show and it would be nice to stay on topic.
Ok, Betty is just being nice to the little boy. Glenn is a little upset and lost , just perhaps as betty was when she was his age. We don't know at what age Betty Mom passed away. Her Mothers death is KEY to her mental developement.
Don and Betty had Sex. This was not a dream. Sex, Slow moving , keep quiet grinding. Betty was on top, Betty is Dominate. And we're at the in-laws so keep quiet and lets Go.
Betty is using Don as he has used her.
Her Dad had a stroke, she calls Don.
Don returns her Home and attempts to take a shower. She says Get out, you're Not staying here.
She's controlling the interaction.
Peggy's infant Son was adopted or awarded to her Aunt or perhaps her cousin/ Sister.
Get ready for Peggy the copy writer pulling sexual strings in the office. Also Salvatore's fondness to Ken comes back into play. Being that Draper and Cambell are away to Cali , time for office heat.
Betty getting the scoop from her female riding friends date with the dork from the riding stable.
Certainly Paul the freedom rider will have some action in the Civil rights.
Did anyone else notice the cups they were drinking from at the baby shower? Were they paper cups with some kind of holder? Check out the photos from this episode... those cups are interesting.
Jack Carlson wrote: Frankly, I am ashamed of Betty. She needs to begin appreciating how fortunate she is. Usually, when guys are going outside the home for sex, it means that they are not getting it from their wife.
Me now: OH BROTHER!!! Have you watched this show? It's Betty that wants sex all the time with Don. Check out season 1. It's Don that's having a little problem keeping the mast erect, unless he's with other women.
Men cheating USUALLY has nothing to do with what they're getting at home. Men who cheat most likely do so because they have monogamy issues. Like Roger said, "Marriage - it's not natural..."
This episode helps give a deeper understanding of Betty.
First, we see that Betty was clearly raised by the maid, not her mother. So it shouldn't be a suprise that she relies so much on her household help to raise her children. Second, there was the line about her father "fining" them if they engaged in small talk. Also, there have been previous references to how important appearance were in her home growing up.
Her father clearly expected her to act like a proper perfect princess and because she was a compliant daughter, rewarded her with adoration. Her mother expected physical perfection but love came from the maid.
Betty was clearly upset that her father had deteriorated so much to the point of not knowing who she was half the time. The sexaul groping was less the issue than his not knowing it was his own daughter. She had lost perfect wife status and now she no longer had perfect daughter status.
As for the sex with Don, I think she had sex with him as a source of comfort, to lose herself from the situation and to feel good briefly. In the light of day back in her own house, she was, as the maid said, able to remember her father and past as being perfect again but could not pretend that her homelife and things with Don were perfect.
Before she had a name and a specific image for one of his mistresses(aka Bobbie), it was easier for her to pretend, but no longer.
That sex romp with Betty and Don was not a dream. I kind of liked how Betty got on top, and was in control, while Don tenderly kissed her and caressed her, something which she might have done if Don was on top. Plus I like the morning after we see Don was satisfied and maybe wanted to go another round, but Betty is already down stairs. When she rebuffs his morning kiss, and when they go home and she tells him, No nothing has changed, we were just pretending, I think that was a message to Don as to look "Me, I am just like you." But also when Don says he wants to stay and take care of her Betty, rebuffs him again. I think Betty doesnt want to be a Parent to a grown man (Don) she wants to be his wife, a partner who confides in him, has sex with him, and overall honesty with him. She also doesnt want to be a Parent to a child (Glen) who has a crush on her, and wants to rescue her, and take care of her like Don said when they returned home. I think Betty is finally growing up and realizing what Viola said, she has to take care of her kids and husband, just like they need to take care of her. I think she will be a more involved Parent with the children, and of course have another breakthrough. I do think that she might have gotten pregnant, and that to me will be a new begining not only for her, but for Don also. You can tell her still loves her, even when she rebuffs him. I think the thing she wants out of him is honesty, and he still wont give it to her. I think Betty is passed the point of caring about any other affairs, she just wants the truth so they can start over.
Betty's mother passed away three months before she started visiting the pschiatrist in season 1. She even commented to Don in the last episode that he shouldn't stick around for her now (due to her dad's stroke) because she knows how he feels about mourning/grieving. In the first season, Don had chided Betty for missing her recently deceased Mother and commented her mourning was self indulgent or self pitying.
Betty is very conflicted, trying ot get hold of herself, doesn't know where she is - still loves Don but is so mad at him for being untrue - now it was her turn to "pretend" - like maybe Don had to pretend with her if he was out being a ho (but we all know Don wants a good family life (but really looooves Rachel) and is conflicted himself.
she might have gotten pregnant, and that to me will be a new begining .
Oh , i slipped on this idea and i think its a great idea. Betty has never mentioned birth control , it was on the market but very new. If Betty is Prego then we have the standard issue situation that millions of couples faced during the 60's the third child and lets stay together. I was a third the accident my parents stayed together , My Dad ran around on my mother. When i was older i heard about my Dad and my friends mothers, un wanted advances and all that crap.
The worst thing about the idea of somebody taking a shot at Paul in Mississippi is that Pete is in California and can't get in the way of the bullets. Were there any big civil rights events in New York back then that the writers could send them both to? Could they also make sure the shooters have lots of ammo?
Well Don gets a chance to see if LA is really what he wanted if he came with Rachel. In full honesty, If he did come with Rachel, he would bang almost every woman there is there, leaving poor Rachel behind. This whole shit of Don truly loves Rachel needs to stop. Don is a whore, he loves himself! Visan will even agree with me that if Don did come with Rachel to LA, he would have cheated on her so fast, he would have sent her packing. I think he is going to whore it up in LA, but something will still be missing with him. I think tonight we saw that he truly does love Betty, and now is feeling the hurt and unwantedness he inflicted on her so many years.
We have our parents and the 60's sexual antics in the work place to be thankful for all the office rules today , not to mention the sexual harassment rules.
Today , people can blow the littlest comment into a major HR issue.
My attraction t the show is the absurd office talk and how women are treated as object.
I love watching Joan attempt to control all the gals dress, so she can wear the power in your bra with her breasts resting on her collar bones.
I really enjoyed this week’s scene with Pete's family. It was so tense and WASPy, I didn't realize I was holding my breath until the scene was over. Excellent acting on VK's part!
I guess none of us have jobs , that we can blog about a tv show all day on a monday. Just goes to show you the full body of the madman, its a great show. I have never followed anything like this show , except UFC that is.
Okay,
I think tho Paul ending up on that bus with Sheila was almost an accident, his life will be completely changed. Sheila may love him more for his newly found activism.
I love odd, so I loved the scene with Betty and Glen on the sofa. I think it just shows how deep Betty is in her immaturity.
Glen did look like a mini Draper. He told Betty he would take her away, he had money. Sounded like Don to Rachael.
Betty is growing up. Now she needs to Mom Up.
Don's adventure in CA will be interesting. The Draper Door is open, he may walk thru.
Pete's family is creepy. Pete now believes adopting a child might be a plus. It put that idea in his head.
Visan your vitriol is over the top and not really appreciated from this corner. Mad Men is not Dirty Sexy Money. These characters are actually three dimensions. Even the vilest characters have a redeeming quality or two and everyone has a backstory. Also, in 1962 no one would have thought anything of Betty in a house alone with Glenn.
- I believe Don and Betty had sex - no dream...
- Pampers are a client of SC - earlier in this season...
- Offices were like that, I believe up to the 80's - parties and booze in the afternoon happened (well, at my offices, anyway)
- Betty and Glen - I agree they are soulmates - remember last season when Don said that living with Betty was like living with a child? This WHOLE eppy was about that - going home, being called Princess, sulking when the stuff at the house went to her brother, the crying on her "maid's" shoulder, saying she was an orphan...
when she was with Glen - she not only eats, but eats like a kid with a huge bite, the scene on the sofa was sooo like two kids on an afternoon play day. Notice when Sally and Bobby arrived, Glen withdrew and when he was watching TV with Sally, he was on the sofa and she was on the floor? Glen is somewhere between adult and child and so is Betty - that's where their two paths cross. LOVE that Glen and his mom are back! Notice how Betty scolds her to take care of her child, much like Betty's maid scolded Betty to do?
- Watch Joan again in this episode - she is very broken up about Roger (kinda surprised)...in the party scene, Kinsey mentioned the Tiffany box from Jane AND probably Roger? Then when Roger comes in at the end, she barely looks at him...hee. I knew when Don told her to do the Memo to Kinsey, she would tell him in person, but in front of everyone was tooo yummy!
Betty is winning Don back, slowly, and is literally on top now, being random and unrepdictable and ruthless and in control of her world... all the things Don likes... now he just has to process it as HIS WIFE, Betty as something he wants and doesn't just HAVE... her father said, "my little angel"... Betty is becoming Bad Betty and it might get Don Back on very new terms... in L.A. - the land of endless sun and fun and temptation - will Don make his final decision, or settle upon a decision that will include "the new Betty"??? Or will it just be Don giving in for the sake of superficial harmony so he can live the rest of his life (for the rest of his life) feed up within a compromised new normal?
Clean lines of right and wrong, and expectation leading to fulfillment and how things are vs. how they were DON'T happen in Mad Men...
Will Betty get preggo and then have an abortion? I think that might be coming...
Is Duck, in the soup? Duck Soup? I hope so... don't get much out of Quacky Phillips... Notice how he speaks in quick, quack, staccato-ish bursts... quack, quack, quack... :))
Now Don gets to go to LA and look for himself there... of course, like the entire decade of the 60s, the flight toward expanded self-awareness and knowing, is endless and if you are looking for a resolution it feels like an illusion because there is no final destination, no where to go to find it, it is either developing within yourself or it isn't and the sign posts Don is looking for in poetry and french movies and dangerous sex are vacuous if they do not touch you, move you, alter you... poor Don... he's made it to the corporate top of the mountain and is lost...
At this point in the timeline, Betty's mom has been dead about 2 years now. In the first season she had died "a coupla months ago", according to the session with the therapist.
So we're about 300 posts in and already we have people wanting to ask what happened to Peggy's baby, and still identifying the Telstar song. Please read the posts, BEFORE you post to avoid repetition and redundance. And as for Peggy's baby, NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE. Can we please just wait and see what the writers have in store for us?
Laurie B. :
Yes we are really into posting for episode ten.... That's what this all about. Commenting on Episode Ten...whatever is there. I, for one, am not going to read every single post.... I scroll to the bottom and read what I want to... The people on this blog are generally nice and patient. You are a very impatient woman. You often make comments about what you consider "boring'. Who are you to judge?
The East of NewYork and the West Coast of Cali were completely different.
East coast was work hard get a good job.
West coast was freedom , experience everything and mouch off your parents. We're 3-5years away from free- Love in California. however from the episdoe guide Don set to meet some interesting folks.
Surprisingly I agree with Visan and Polignac on how Betty is going to end up pregnant. Then they'll have that typical situation of, now we have to stay together for the children sake, which is going to further Betty's depression because she'll feel stuck, in a rut. And just when she started to feel liberated, or in control.
I also think that at some point Peggy's sister is going to bring in *pete jr.* and say I can't watch him he's your responsibility and Pete will see him and notice, * hey, that kid looks an awful like me.*
I don't remember which of you stated that Paul was just trying to appear cool or trying to appear like he's ahead of the times, but I agree. I totally think that he is just trying to do this because he thinks it makes him look interesting. He's just trying to prove something by making sure the black man in the elevator knows he hip. Fake, Fake, Fake.
I don't get the storyline of Betty with Glen. To me it seemed a waste of storyline. And I'm a Betty fan!!
Joan is the consummate professional at her job. It was out of character for her to approach Paul at the party. She would have enjoyed it just as much if she had broken the news privately. Joan is a class act so I think the writers blew it.
RE: Glen, from a psychological standpoint, I think Glen is in need of some counseling...perhaps he is acting out behavior he observes between his mother and her boyfriends, i.e. the sexual attention his mother's boyfriends give her and in turn she responds to while ignoring him. When they were setting on the sofa watching cartoons I thought for sure he was going to start rubbing her leg or something. Also, he looks alot older than 9 years old (as kids often do today). Just like a little girl would observe a mother give a man (her father or not) physical attention and he responsds to it, so it would go to reason in a little boys mind that this is a way to get attention from lady whom is not his mother, however, that is the whole purpose of it is that he just wants to be noticed and loved. Does that make since?
I too am on your side about VISAN and she knows how I feel. We have had several run ins about Betty. Everyone else would probably agree that Betty is the one that initiated the floor sex because Don was asleep! SHE got on top of him which woke him up. And to say that *Don is not above his sexuality to get back into his house* is ridiculous because, lets be honest, Don is not above having sex, PERIOD ! Betty did that, I believe, because she was going through something stressful and she needed the release, closeness, tenderness that comes with sex.
Visan: I don't know what got into you to make rude nasty comments today ( that you say you never do.) smp65 didn't make any assumptions or interpretation on what you saw. You clearly said that Betty didn't initiate sex, that Don is the one who was using sex for personal gain. How is that someone reading into or interpreting what you saw? Matter of fact, smp65 didn't even address you, so you just feel the need to snap back at someone else point of view, and that was what she was doing. And by the way *cool* and Visan don't even go in the same sentence. Don't say you don't make comments about others when you've given them one of your silly little nicknames, what does *stan* mean?
wink, wink, have a good life!
(but don't think I won't call you on what you say)
I think Joan was feeling pretty "testy" about the Tiffany's gift from Jane and Roger to Paul at the baby shower. Joan always seems to use Paul as a convenient dumping ground when she's feeling bad. Nothing wrong with that. She'd just come out of that meeting with Don-Joan-Roger. Paul's a great vent for Joan, and so easy!
"By oldfashioned Eric, re: Joan and Paul. They had a one-night stand, which he apparently blabbed about. Joan was rude to Sheila at his party, then mocked Kinsey for what she saw as the motives for his interest in Sheila. Kinsey responded by going into Joan's locker, photocopying her license and posting in with her date of birth (1931, making her 31) circled. This is an escalating little war, which Kinsey will probably lose."
Thanks OF - love this fued they have!
AS far as Betty and abuse - I don't think she was actually molested, but I am sure there have been some scary remarks and actions towards her - enough for her to understand that her beauty has gotten her pretty much everything...
I thought of a nickname, *bison*
merriam-webster has the perfect definition: any of several large shaggy-maned usually gregarious recent or extinct bovine mammals (genus Bison) having a large head with short horns and heavy forequarters surmounted by a large fleshy hump
Hey gobarack,
you said, "I predict Kinsey will get his ass kicked at that march"
Well, after he said "no one's been shot, lately" to Sheila, I immediately thought - that he, Kinsey, was going to get shot! (or Sheila).
@Eric: Joan said something to Peggy about mistakes she (Joan) made and looked in Paul's direction during the pilot episode! So they had a fling sometime in the past.
NMKay: I agree this is for posting about Episode 10. And I did not say anybody's posts are boring. I just said some are repetitive and redundant, and it's because people like you who don't read first to see what's already been asked and answered, which clogs up the thread even more. Yes, I am getting impatient. But go ahead, type away.... you don't care how slow and sluggish this site gets.
Geez, me and Visan are getting our asses handed to us today.
Hi there;
OK, here's my thougts (I am a former lurker and a HUGE fan) as a child of that era. My dad was don draper. I even made him a door stop to his office with a felt "martini" on one side and golf on the other. He divorced my mom and married his sexy secretary who wore "Wicked Wahini" perfume and had a red polked dotted comforter on a (gasp) double bed.
Betty's dad mention something about building him a house in theri back yard and then Betty finds Glenn (a mini-Don) out there and consoles him, even giving him a shirt of Don's. Interesting.
I had a grandparent that had had strokes and dementia and made inapproprite seual comments.
Pete is maybe not the bio kid of his parents???
Don has given up and is going to LA to cut loose and Pete is going to severly blow it. Yea! He is too smarmy. Somehow it will all come out about Peggys and Petes baby...for sure.
And Mona will have Rodgers baby.
The head guy is a hoot and was the lead in "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" how ironic!
Don and Betty still care for each other. Betty calls Don for support when she finds out that her father had a stroke. Don is genuinely concerned and is supportive when they are together. He did not have to accompany her for the trip- Judy (sister in law) arrived much later and Don could have plausibly claimed that his job would keep him in NY. A quick train trip down and back would have been sufficient for appearances. When she called him, his immediate reaction was to go home and comfort her. I think Betty did initiate sex with Don, this wasn't a dream. He went to sleep in his shorts and t shirt, when he woke up, he was shown without his t shirt and the cover was as if he woke up without his shorts on. The bed looked barely slept in- logical since Betty moved to Don early in the evening. This scene was significant for many reasons. Betty still cares for Don and he for her- his response wasn't perfunctory, it was genuine and tender. She also initiated sex and then withdrew from him after he dropped her off at their house. Betty is beginning to separate sex from marriage and this is a crucial step for her to become comfortable as a (semi) liberated divorced woman.
The other side of Betty's potential liberation is for her to become aware of what her life would be as a divorced single mother. Through Glenn and then Helen's admission, Betty sees the emotional damage that would be inflicted on her children. While Betty at times does resent her children, she still sees herself as a wife and mother- a view reinforced by the maid she grew up with in her father's house. The scene with Helen felt forced and given what has transpired between them, they were remarkably civil to each other. It would have been justified if Helen had come in and started to immediately argue with Betty. Instead they both went to the kitchen table, lit cigarettes and started to talk, and when Betty opened up they realized they had something strong in common.
Betty and Glenn's interaction is creepy (no other way to put it). Glenn is now 11 or 12 and judging by his physical appearance, may be on the cusp of puberty. If he and Betty continue to have more than minimal interaction, his thoughts may become increasingly sexual which could lead to some emotionally charged scenes. For her part, I think Betty enjoys Glenn's company because he unquestionably adores her. Glenn represents a man in her life that still views her as an untainted Princess. But she is also aware of the potential consequences of Glenn's attention. She does the right thing by calming him down and then calling his mother.
Another post mentioned possible latent homosexuality- I can see Glenn coming out of the closet later in the decade. In the meantime, Betty will continue to be a fantasy to him, and this will continue as a subplot.
Revenge is a dish best served cold, and Joan likes hers directly from the freezer. She was visibly happy when she informed Ken that he would not be going to Ca and needed to turn in his tickets immediately. She and Don have some chemistry, but I don't yet know if it is mutual respect or sexual/emotional. Don clearly trusts Joan and she clearly likes working for him. Don has already demonstrated a willingness to recognize a women's potential in a professional environment- perhaps he will help Joan in some way ?
Paul Kinsey is a poseur and a condescending one at that. He's a Limousine Liberal at best. I feel sorry for Sheila because she does not see that she is being used by Paul as a prop for his proto-boho lifestyle. I hope she finds out soon, because she is a nice girl. Hopefully Paul's trip south will cause both to reconsider their relationship. Paul's removal from the Ca trip was telegraphed at the beginning of the Ep. when Don pointedly tells Paul not to talk during any of the Ca meetings. Why would he do this unless he already questioned the value of Paul's participation ?
Why was Peter chosen to go to Ca ? Is his family background viewed as opening doors with Senators and Congressmen ? Given the high profile nature of the trip, why was it initially entrusted to Pete and Paul (Peter and Paul- 2 of Jesus' disciples, but in this context who are they disciples of ?) . Peter and his brother seem to get along, but Peter and his mother (and previously his father) had a strained relationship at best. He clearly relished tearing away the curtain from his mother's financial situation and may have embraced the concept of adoption on the spot as a symbol of revenge against his mother. Wrong motive to be sure, but it will make Trudy happy. Given the speculation regarding the fate of Peggy's baby, who knows how all of this will turn out.
Don is at a crossroads. He does want to go back to Betty, but still wants to do it on his terms. So much of his life has been done on his terms that he does not know how to bend when the situation warrants it. A perfect example would have been when he and Betty arrived home. She told him to leave, and began a conversation. He should have hugged her and held her tightly. I bet she would have started to cry and let out all of the pent up emotion. They then would have had a basis to reach some sort of peace. A hint to what Betty feels is her comment regarding Don's opinion of expressing grief- clearly this is a legacy of her mother's death and the aftermath- she is still grieving, fears becoming an orphan and needs emotional reassurance. Instead Don essentially did nothing- no expression of love, no empathy for her emotional state, then he turned around and walked out. The culmination of his next scene has Don deciding to go to Ca for business reasons, but it is apparent that the trip will also allow him to reflect on his personal life. Don is too integral a character for him to move to LA, but clearly a change in attitude/perspective etc has been hinted at.
Some have suggested that Betty will get pregnant. Given how the show has developed, this would be too convenient of a development and make for too clean of a "lets do it for the kids" reconciliation. Though it would be a very 50's-early 60's thought process.
Previews show that Roger will question Duck's contribution to SC, then Bert ominously asks Duck if he is leaving the firm. We know that during most of Duck's tenure he has been a thorn in Don's side, but Duck has also brought in business- starting with Kodak which gave us The Wheel… We know that Don is not happy with how he became involved in the relationship between Roger and Jane, perhaps Roger's motive is to get rid of Duck as a peace offering to Don, because he knows how ruthless Don can be in retaliation ?
Laurie B, your posts are not boring and are insightful. I do appreciate you trying to stay on point.
wadtah: Some people desperatly need attention....he/she is better left ignored.
Question are the two Younger Guys ( whom were in the meeting asking for lunch and put it on RightGuards Bill ) are they gay ?
Did anyone else get this ? Once they were talking to Jane but thats about it.
I love Mad Men. I love the strong story lines for the women. Joan, Betty, Peggy. I love that Betty is finding herself and the power she wields with her beauty (even on a kid). She did the right thing though, in calling Glen's mother and putting a kabash on the whole creepy thing. That kid isn't right in the head, and I love it. As for Don -- what a hunk. I loved hearing "Telestar" as he flew into LA. It gave me chills anticipating the next episode in California. I'm from California, and Donald Draper would fit right in! As for Pete, he's going to get his -- I can't wait until he learns that he did father a son, and ends up adopting "not one of his own." The recreation of the time period is astoundingly accurate and it makes me nostalgic for that time in the USA -- it was wonderful!
No Tequila, thank you, but I must say I do not understand all these "shots" folks are taking at certain other folks. This is just a fictional show on TV. Wonderful plot lines, great writing and terrific actors. So we all have favorites and characters we love to hate. So what. That's what makes it fun.
My favorites are Peggy, Joan, Don and Ken. They can do no wrong in my eyes. So sue me. My love to hate characters are Betty and Pete - if only they could wind up together - they are so deserving of each other's pathetic company. So sue me again.
Oh, I forgot Roger - but he is in his own little class - you don't love him, you don't hate him, 'cause he is just Roger, and the show would not be the same without him. That also goes for this thread - it would not be the same without Visan and LaurieB and all the rest of you Mad Men fanatics. There, have another shot of Tequila on me.
Jane 20y/o and Rogers ...?? 47years old. Jane isn't going to marry Roger. The next question is who does Peggy have an attraction fore , in the office ?
Grace Kelly was in an auto accident at the time of her death, but an autopsy showed she suffered a stroke. Many believe this caused her to have the accident.
What if Betty is pregnant, then miscarries? Don has to have some type of emotional growth for him and Betty to reconcile, and I think they will. Betty doesn't interact with any of the other leading characters and I think her story is a big one to tell (how women handled the revolution that's we all know is coming) so I don't see her leaving the show anytime soon.
By hiphugher on October 6, 2008 12:03 PM
Marilyn 1966, I get the feeling Trudy wants an infant...Peggy & Pete's boy is a toddler now going on three isn't he?
You could and possibly are right, hip. I hadn't thought about that, but I do believe that the baby will ultimately be revealed somehow.
On another note, someone mentioned that Betty said that Don was taking the kids out to dinner. I believe her quote was something like, "They don't understand why they feel so special all of a sudden." NOT anything against Don, seems like a simple question from sally to Don would be like, "Gee daddy, how come we get to eat out everynight, we must be special." or something...
I've always loved the song Telstar - it was written in honor of the first telecommunications satellite (as pointed out in a previous post) and the image it depicts of a new age and new possibilities was perfect for the end of the episode - Don going to a high-tech convention and Paul going South to register voters is kind of a way of saying a final goodbye to the Eisnehower years and jumping feet-first into The New Frontier.
Anyone else think that Betty's father may have sexually abused her when she was younger and they are using his dementia as a cover up?
Poor little Glen...my heart broke for him last night when Betty called his mother...Betty hasn't really crossed the line yet, but she gets pretty close.
When we went to bed last night my husbnd told me that I remind him of Betty...is that good or bad??!!
I still can't believe Roger honestly believes himself to be in love with Jane. Maybe he's had a stroke. Jeesh. Well, Roger always was the eternal frat boy/playboy. Oh, I can't believe Jane will ever marry him either, money or not. Saddle herself with someone that much older? She doesn't look like the type.
On the other hand, I have seen that age difference match-up. What comes to mind, though, is if Jane accepted, I can see her being pregnant right off the bat. Can you see Roger finally getting a son? I can. An heir to the Sterling Cooper throne. Wouldn't that be a kicker out of left field?
@llilpie. Jane, not Mona, would be having Roger's baby.Mona's a little long in the tooth to get pregnant.
Seems like posters on this thread are getting a little hostile this afternoon.......Looks like a war between the old timers vs. newbies.
I got flamed last week by a newbie (upper case rant and all). I tried to explain myself better and defend my position,only to have her disappear from the thread.Dawn! I had a good rebuttal for her too.
I'm hoping that Don will get to whore around in L.A. I think the Palladian was a hot spot back then,Chasen's, The Brown Derby.I love it when they get into the outside world and show us another environment.
Season 1 had several flashback's that really answered a lot of questions for folks (Dick's transformation into Don,Peggy's stay in the looney bin) I hope that Season 3 will give us the backstory of how Don rose to the level he is now at SC. He was a used car dealer,how priceless is that?
I wonder if some dark haired,sophisticated woman took him under her wing? I'd like more story on Sal/Kitty and how long he stays closeted post Stonewall maybe?)
I want to see Peggy get more assertive and be promoted and "over" sneaky Pete. The only women who have a little spunk and 'tude are Hildy,Joan and Jane.
Carla,Hollis and Sheila might get more story time as the the era of civil rights approaches.
I miss Freddy, and I hope Duck go away. He's not central to SC's dynamics as much as he used to be. I think the AAlines plot kind of made him look bad.
I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling that Pete and his wife will end up adopting the child that Peggy gave up for adoption. Pete will want to know where the baby is from (that it is not a 'discard') and his search will lead him to Peggy...... hmmmmmmmmmmm
I think this episode shows that Betty needs to grow up. She continuously acts in childish ways, is incapable of mothering her own children, and is always acting out for Don's attention (she's practically begging him to talk her into taking him back).
She needs to grow up, tend to her children and her household and suck it up like a spouse in the 60's did. I don't think she'll divorce Don.
I'm waiting for the episode where Don storms into his house past her, and reminds her of exactly who is paying for that house and the bills. And she can leave HIS house if she wants to. Then she'll be back to normal.
I also don't think Betty was molested as a child. They showed her father confusing her for the mother at a different time, telling her to get coffee for everyone. Then the situation with the grope. He's clearly in the early stages of dementia.
Speaking of Duck - I lost ALL respect for him, (If I had any at all) when he turned loose his 'beloved' dog (Who's name escapes me right now) - In downtown Manhattan! How low can you get, just cuz you don't want to drink you throw your dog out the door?!
Laurie B, why am I a troll? I haven't said anything against you. Also you were talking about Freddie. I watched the inside episode thing, and they talked about Freddie having a drinking problem (which was new to me) and having relatives that are alcoholics, they definitely go on themselves.
Don's going to have to man up and put his big foot down, and not let his wife walk all over him because he feels guilty. This re-wussification of Don is lousy and boring! Hopefully some California grass will re-awaken Don's bad-assness!!
Hey eric i was about to change my name to doubleDon also. Everyone id's each other by their photo , then bitches them out by their name on the blog. Ha ha
In the elevator with Paul, Shelia says something like “I guess I’ll have to go to Mississippi alone on Billy Kaplan’s bus.” I wonder if “Billy” is supposed to represent Kivie Kaplan, who was a real person deeply involved in the civil rights movement at that time?
@ Jennifer, to anwer your Q: They're going to Santa Monica, although Paul had expressed interest in visiting Pasadena.
@ the poster (sorry I didn't note your name and can't relocate you in all the above) who made the observation of the sunlight in Don's eyes while Pete's blindfolded. Kudos
@ those who pointed out the Glen character is Weiner's son, thanks. I wasn't aware of it.
My 3 fav moments:
Cooper's "happy birthday"
Joan's pays back Paul with a public humiliation. We and she know who snuck the driver's license out of her purse which led to her humiliation.
Telstar
Peggy's sister was pregnant at the same time as Peggy, so the toddler is her sister's. If her sister were raising 'twins' there might be some question as to which was who's.
It was Paul who put the copy of Joan's driver's license on the board in retaliation for the way Joan slighted Sheila.
Thank you Dry Manhattan. I just found that before you posted. I was out of posting mode for about 2 weeks because my father had a heart attack and triple bypass.
Nora is my favorite poster. Hope to read from her soon!
The pattern with the Drapers seems to be Don gets caught cheating and either a direct confrontation like this season ensues or indirect, like last season with the shrink. Don slinks back into wuss mode, complete with Mr. Roger's sweaters.
I want his confidence to come back! Please resurrect Big Alpha Dog Don because this submissive version bugs!
I thought it was kind of odd that in 1962 Paul can bring his black girlfriend to his job and everyone behaved as if they were used to seeing an interacial couple. Everyone seemed supportive even the elevator guy, just not real. I'm talking from experience, people here in the U.S. didn't start feeling comfortable with interracial couples until around the 1980's at least! I believe that in 1962 Paul could have been fired from his job for this relationship. (with another reason for his being fired of course) even here in New York City.
On another point, I really don't understand all the 'Betty and the child creeps me out' comments. Betty was just trying to be sympathic with the boy. She obviously never intended for anything inappropiate to happen. The child mis-took her kindness and Betty took the right steps immediatly to send him home, nothing creepy there. As a matter of fact I'm liking Betty more as the series progresses. She is taking charge of her life and is begining to grow up. She is showing Don that she can be on top, in more ways than one.
Ok. We're good Laurie B. Even though I may disagree with some of your posts, some, I do not find you offensive as I do others. Thats what makes this open forum so wonderful is that thousands of people watch the same show week after week and you can get totally different perspectives from the same thing. Its highly interesting!
I've been reading prior messages about last night's show. I think alot of people are way off about Betsy and Glen. I don't get the perv vibe at all. I think it's two lonely, lost people. She betrayed him with calling his Mom. (How about when he said he hated her and she said "I know". Very sad) I think she really cares for him in a platonic motherly way. She's just completely shutting down in every way and that was the last person she seemed to even aknowledge.
Also- I do not think her Dad did anything to her as a child. I think him recognizing her as the Mother and not who she is brings into questions her whole identity and her life in general.
I agree. My grandfather died not quite a year ago from dimentia/alzheimers and he didn't know who I was and even with my grandmother he thought she was another woman and told her that she needed to leave because his wife was a jealous woman. They have no clue what and to who they are saying things
Cheryl: I was very attracted to a man I worked with in 1963 and thought the feeling was mutual but he never asked me out, so I asked around and everyone said he was single. I eventually found out that he was living in Greenwich Village, married to a black woman and kept it secret. How sad that he had to do that!
Cheryl: I agree, Glen creeps me out, too. Eric, I agree that no man would wear a baby bonnet. However, I brought this up on another thread (one with less action and a bit more sane), and a poster took umbrage claiming that it was routine to have baby showers for fathers in offices in 1962. I was there. No it wasn't. In fact, women automatically quit (or were fired) from their jobs (yes, that was grounds for dismissal in 1962. Again, I was there). Thus, baby showers in offices were unusual even for women in 1962. Apparently another poster was in an office where men wore bonnets and everyone got drunk and had baby showers for fathers. I don't know where this was, but it did NOT happen in Chicago's ad agencies, at least NOT the ones I worked in! I knew someone who worked in NYC too (ad agency) and it did NOT happen there either. Perhaps it occurred in Little Rock Arkansas or somewhere. I thought Harry looked asinine!
Laurie B. I agree with you. One of the posts said if a man goes outside the home for sex, it usually means he's not getting it at home. I totally disagree with that statement. There are just some men (Don Draper, Mick Jagger, etc.) who simply CANNOT stay faithful to any woman, no matter who she is. It is not Betty's fault. Anyone who thinks he would be faithful to any of his mistresses is living in a dream world. I love the character of Don Draper, but I wouldn't want to be married to him. Also, don't think because Betty is a classic beauty, very prim and proper, regal even, on the outside - that she can't be lots of fun in the bedroom. In fact, I think the writers are trying to show that side of her more now. She's exactly what most men in Don's position would want in a wife.
Interesting thoughts Figaro! I too wonder about how weird it seems to be that slap drunk in the middle of the day and at work with superiors around joining in with you, weird!
One of the funniest moments in movies was in the movie "Cat Ballou" (1965) (a Jane Fonda pre-anti-war film). The murdered Papa Ballou was laid out in a coffin, candles all around him when a drunk Kid Shalleen (Lee Marvin) wanders in and sings "Happy Birthday." And then blows out the candles. He got an Academy Award for that movie.
Incidentally, this movie was released in the same year as the movie, "Ship of Fools." Betty was reading the book in the last episode. Another vague tie to the series.
Also, I think some Boomers like to imagine that they remember EVERYTHING that happened when they grew up. Only trouble is, Boomers did NOT WORK in the BUSINESS world in 1962; the oldest Boomer would have been 16 in 1962. The youngest, not yet born! There is a HUGE difference between thinking that you remember literally EVERYTHING and actually having LIVED it. Quite a difference, regardless of whether or not you watched your parents live it. I worked in some major ad agencies in 1962 (Chicago) and had a friend in NYC in the ad business (Madison Avenue). Some of this stuff they portray on Mad Men is myth tinged with truth; some of it is what the writers THINK went on (the writers are all very young, and though they research, that is NOT quite the same thing as having been there). The shower for Harry was far-fetched. Paul bringing his African-American girlfriend into the office and having everyone but one secretary treat it as though it happened every day was also the figment of some writer's imagination. Some writer who was NOT there in 1962 America! Boomers, I am sure you recall much of the sixties (and some of the fifties) but unless you were an adult in those time periods and you worked in the business world (big cities, etc.), you DON'T really know what you THINK you do! It's kind of like the WWII generation. We can all read about it and watch movies about it and so on, but to those who ACTUALLY LIVED IT, it was a bit different. No TV show can capture every nuance of the times. You HAD TO HAVE BEEN THERE first hand! Also, kind of like being pregnant and having a baby. Sorry, guys, but unless you have gone through nine months of pregnancy, delivery, etc., there is NO WAY you can relate, even if you were by your wife's side the entire time. Some things one just has to experience for oneself.
One more comment. I believe the reason why Don couldn't keep the "mast erect" with Betty on Valentine's Day is because of his blood pressure meds. BP meds are hard enough for men to take today with all the advancements they've made on drugs and side effects. Back in the early 60's they really had bad side effects, one of the being erectile dysfunction (as they now call it). My dad was an executive, went for a physical required by his company, was told he had high BP and was put on meds sometime in the 60's. I remember he was told he couldn't drink alcohol on them. Next thing you know, he stopped taking his BP meds (maybe my dad had other side effects that I don't want to know about), but anyway my dad died of a heart attack at the age of 58 from high BP.
waditah: Glad you agree. So few seem to. Not that it matters, but to me, unless one was THERE in the midst of things (I mean as an adult in 1962, working in a large office or corporation, etc.), then all they are doing is surmising that MM must be right on the money. They are with some things but some of it is pure fiction! Not everyone boozed it up all day long in offices. In fact, that went on less than one might believe, at least if one watches Mad Men. Also, the guy with the woman on his lap sitting at the typewriter and "snuggling." Even in 1962's much less politically correct atmosphere, THAT behavior would have been frowned upon. These MM characters all seem to do nothing but drink, smoke, sleep around, and well, that's about it. I assure everyone that much of Mad Men is fiction (with a hint of truth) just like Sex and the City. If anyone really believes that all single women living in the Big Apple sleep with 10 different guys every week, drink like fiends, and seem to have unlimited incomes and designer clothing and shoes, well, that is merely a stereotype and a bad one. Again, these types of shows are fun to watch because a lot of what is portrayed is fantasy! I don't say there wasn't smoking drinking, carousing, and all that, but NOT to the extent they portray on MM. And believe me, most guys in the offices I was in did NOT look like Don Draper or Roger Sterling. And there weren't luscious secretaries behind EVERY desk.
Another detail : Did everyone see the girl seating in the lap of someone while she was at her desk.
The figure very non-discript figure in a black suit was completely without a face. It was a weird site.
Someone in the office commented how all were having a great time.
This is one partying office, remember election night. This was brought back by the ackward embrace the one Girl had with Crane at his unrealistic babyshower.
Regarding the stigma of adoption at the time. Remember this period is just before the social explosion of Women's Liberation, easy access to birth control and the Sexual Revolution. Back then, a healthy, adoptable white baby had to be the result of an illicit relationship. There was a lot of shame involved. I had one classmate that the other kids whispered about because she was adopted. They all knew that meant she had a "bad" mother. They all wondered if she would be the same way; at 11 years old these little gossips were speculating if she would also grow up to be "bad". Look at how Peggy's sister resents her for getting away with being "bad". She is so angry that Peggy wasn't punished more than she was (like a breakdown, stay in the hospital, being unable to acknowledge her child and the constant worry about being "outed" isn't enough!) that she has to rat on her to the priest.
Has anyone else noticed how slender Peggy now is...and how she is wearing some very stylish clothes that showcase her tiny waist. She's taking Jane's advice about her schoolgirl clothes very seriously and she is becoming tres chic.
Cosmo, I don't believe Betty will leave the show ever. I believe there is a big story line in the works for Betty which I posted above. I love all the characters, but Betty is my favorite. I grew up in the 50's and the writers are very accurate in their portrayal of the 50's housewife. The men had all the control. Women were supposed to just be happy with their big house, entertaining their husband's business associates, kids, nice car, stay at home life. I'm sure a lot of women were depressed, but of course (like Don) their husbands wouldn't understand that. The one thing I find to be inaccurate is how many of the couples are getting separated and divorced. I grew up in an upper middle class background; my dad was an executive and I knew his other executive friends and their families. Not one couple was either separated or divorced. The men may have cheated, I don't know - I was 10. But they didn't leave their wives. In this show we have Glenn's mom, Francine and Carlton, Roger and Mona, now Betty and Don. Did I forget anyone? I don't think it's realistic that this would be happening. I think last season, with all Don's cheating but still coming home to his wife, was more realistic. I think most men do love their wives (and I'm pretty old and have seen a lot in this life), they have a lot of history with their wives, kids, etc. I think most men cheat simply for the sex even if they are getting it at home. Any women who dates a married man better not fall in love because 90% of the time it's a lost cause.
Yeah Figaro, I wasn't even alive then. But you can tell what is just dramatized for effect. I love the show for its fantasy. Others have posted on here saying things like, that typewriter didn't exist then, or nobody said those kind of phrases then. The show I think goes to the lengths it can to make sure of its accuracy and to really just make sure the *feel* is right. I really do think that when I'm watching, I'm looking into the lives of 60's iconic people. Obviously, not everything will be just so, but it does make for great TV.
I agree with posters who think the Glen thing is creepy. If he were around 14 I could see a crush; but at his age (10-12?) it's strange. It might not seem so weird now because kids are sexualized earlier these days, but back then it was definitely not normal. I almost wonder if Glen hasn't been sexualized by something in his background. Maybe we'll discover his Dad used to leave porn mags laying around the house. Maybe Glen witnessed adults having not only having sex, but kinky sex. Maybe he's been molested in some way. Maybe someone has been playing some kind of mind games with him.I think there's something to discover in that family.
Why do men cheat? Most of the time, only for the sex. Roger put it nicely when he called Joan "the best piece of ass I've ever had." Made me glad I never had an affair with a married man!
waditah: Yes, if watching for the fantasy and remembering it is only a fictional portrayal, then that's great. It's those who don't understand that it IS fantasy (much of it) and get so serious with all of it. It should be fun, but NOT taken as gospel as to how the fifties and sixties REALLY were, at least not the world of business. Again, some of it is true, but so much of it is what the writers imagine it to be. Again, I was there (obviously I am much older than you), and believe me, a lot of the behavior is standard human behavior portrayed as stereotype. Ah well, that's about all I have to say on this particular subject.
Isn't Peggy's Son being taken care of by her Aunt or sister (3Sundays episode ).
She looks in on 3 sleeping children , 2youngsters and an infant. And how can a woman be pregnant and Not know it ? Dr. i have a stomach ache !
If you look at the footage when Peggy is in the hospital, her sister is VERY pregnant.
I believe that in 1962 Paul could have been fired from his job for this relationship. (with another reason for his being fired of course) even here in New York City.
That's true. It was illegal in most states to marry, so dating would have been frowned on too.
waditah Not everyone with Alzheimer's does that. My father never forgot any of us. Alz and dementia are not a "lump everyone in the same category" diseases.
As for why Don strays - Betty is cold, cold, cold, and emotionally void. Don picks strong women with their own opinions to sleep with. If Betty would just grow up, Don might stay home.
Figaro - some of us not only grew up in the 60s, but study it. So, just because you "LIVED" it doesn't give you the right to put down people who didn't.
Figaro I think you can give people credit that they know this is a TV show and not a documentary. Gee, did all TV writers like Rob Petrie and his wife burst into song at every party? Sheriff Taylor solved every crime and was home by dinner?
Again, it's a TV show, not a documentary. If it annoys you so much to have people not understand that "it wasn't that way", maybe you shouldn't be here.
I think the glenn betty thing is just a MM method of shock value keeping the audience glued just like then peggy had a baby without knowing she was even preggers
as much as it is truly uncomfortable to watch for some reason you cannot look away ... bring it on MM
I thought the article had some interesting points. I was grossed out by Betty sitting there holding Glen's hand too.
What is wrong with her?
I didn't like that the author of this article couldn't get Sal's name right- it's Salvatore not Salvador. I guess she thought he was Spanish and not Italian.( I think Bryan Batt is gorgeous.)
By Cheryl on October 6, 2008 3:05 PM
I thought it was kind of odd that in 1962 Paul can bring his black girlfriend to his job and everyone behaved as if they were used to seeing an interacial couple. Everyone seemed supportive even the elevator guy, just not real. I'm talking from experience, people here in the U.S. didn't start feeling comfortable with interracial couples until around the 1980's at least!
================
Anybody remember "Society's Child" by Janis Ian, circa 1967?
Come to my door, baby,
face is clean and shining black as night.
My mother went to answer, you know,
and you looked so fine.
Now I can understand your tears and your shame.
She called you "boy" instead of your name.
When she wouldn't let you inside.
When she turned and said
"But honey, he's not our kind."
She said I can't see you any more, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
Walk me down to school, baby.
Everybody's acting deaf and blind.
Until they turn and say
why don't you stick to your own kind.
(Not sure about the rest of this verse. It sounds to me like)
My teachers all laugh, they smirk and stare.
Cutting deep down in our affair.
Preachers of equality. They say "Believe us"
but why won't they just let us be?
They say I can't see you anymore, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
One of these days I'm gonna stop my listening,
Gonna raise my head up high.
One of these days I'm gonna raise my glistening wings and fly.
But that day will have to wait for awhile.
Baby, I'm only society's child.
When we're older things may change.
But for now this is the way they must remain.
I say I can't see you any more, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
No, I don't wanna see you any more, baby.
Mctwisty....this is what I'm upset about...we all want to talk about the show and there are a lot of new people here. Most are really nice and I love to read the posts ...there are about six or seven who think this is just their blog and they can run it. And want to tell you how it is.....Geesh...JUST talk about Madmen...it' just a tv show and I think we all love it.... The characters are all believable to me. ...some I don't like,,,,some I adore.
And I think Betty and Don will get back together but not till next season. And Peggy's baby will stay a secret for a long time....
Figaro! Figaro! Figaro! I WAS THERE in 1962 working in a large corporation and, although I don't recall any baby showers, I do remember a lot of wild office parties and drinking (not in the office but across the street in a bar with long, long lunches and again after work at the same bar. So just because you didn't personally live it, and even though you are of age, you shouldn't discount it.
McTwisty, Get a grip. No one is trying to ruin anyone's experience. You sound VERY ANGRY. Don't take opinions so personally. You'll stroke out. I was merely commenting. No need for you to be on the defensive.
Figaro
I love when people write "you must be very angry". You come in and basically tell people that weren't there to shut up and you say "don't take opinions so personally"? You have nerve, I'll give you that.
Does Betty's dad remind anyone else of old man McCain?
Didn't the "real Don Draper " say he was going to L.A. when he got out of the army?
Read "The Velveteen Rabbit" to my niece today. Somehow reminded me of D.D. Well, so I am obsessing - it's only 7:11 in LA. Gotta do something to fill the time
Yes, definitely! I am watching the credits for Pete's Mom, if it is Anita Dangler, then she was on Little House. Who is Bets sister-in-law? Did she play the child on the Children of Stepford Wives? I always notice the secondary characters from previous movies. Any help out there?
Yup, dementia, a brutal temper, and outlandish accusations. Check, check, and check. I wonder if he was a POW back in WWI?
By looks only of McCain. Let's get off of this BS policital forum, in which this is NOT! Madmen is the show, please!
Was there really that much of a stigma in 1962 when it came to adoption?
Sheesh....
Looks like Petey and his mommy are all about preserving blood lines.
I think there still is a stigma. They portrayed it in a Sex & the City episode when Charlotte wanted to adopt. Not for Angelina though!
So why'd they make Don Draper into a pussy? He was so cool until recently.
Thats funny Jonathan my hubby was thinking the same thing!! Actually he looks younger than McCain. Hilarious how some people think alike. Ok back to the Madmen posts though Bettys dad just groped her and forgot who she was, I feel bad for Bets her father is really sick.
yeah, betty's dad does remind me of john mccain. and what is the deal with betty? she has sex with don then doesn't let him back into the house? she needs to go to a real shrink!
Good for Bets. She's trying to show him that she has some power. And besides, what woman could lay there with that man sleeping below. I was thinking "Go Bets, Go Bets"!
By crnacc on October 5, 2008 9:37 PM
yeah, betty's dad does remind me of john mccain. and what is the deal with betty? she has sex with don then doesn't let him back into the house? she needs to go to a real shrink!
I'm almost wondering if this was Don's dream sequence maybe. She seemed so cold to him the next morning, but.... Lust can be that way sometimes, I think she just wanted him - period.
I agree that she needs even more help than her prior shrink was able to give her.
he is quite sexy, Steph Jo. ;)
This kid is....
Betty and that 9-year-old kid — it's seriously creepy.
Is anyone else digging (in a very strange way) Betty's new "little husband"?
And didn't he look like a little Don Draper in that oversized t-shirt?!
I've been watching this entire episode waiting for someone to wake up .... Don, from Betty in the middle of the night. Betty from her "I came to rescue you" young superhero.
But now that's she's sending Little Don back to his home, does that clear the way for Big Don to come back to his home?
I LOVE THIS SHOW !!!!
(yes to the McCain comment by the way ... i thought the exact same thing!)
...and she's not even a teacher!! She needs A LOT of attention and she seeks it from whoever will give it to her. Not abnormal with real men, many women out there like that, but a pedophile? YUK!
That creepy deal with Glen is beyond scary! I don't like that about the show....
Just sayin'....
And didn't we all know that Helen Bishop would come back .... and that she & Bets would grow to have things in common?
It's over already! They wasted too much time at McCain's house!lol
I agree Stephanie Jo she is showing him she needs her sexual feeling but still want take his sh*@. I like the fact she is not budging for him whatsoever.
So many touches in this show throw me back; Betty's Dad's comment about how Don has no "people" and you can't trust someone with no
people; a phrase my own family used a lot. I am actually starting to feel sorry for Don; this show makes you almost feel sorry for everyone except for maybe Pete, Roger and Kinsey.. It is shocking to me how cruel Pete and his brother are in regards to their mother's financial situation. There is a lot of loss in this show, I think that's what get to you. I think Joan embarrassed Kinsey on purpose asking him for his ticket in front of everyone. Pete once again trying to get sympathy out of Peggy. "Happy Birthday!" was a riot; it is hard to believe how unprofessional that office is; Glen is one weird kid trying to bust a move on Betty. I predict Kinsey will get his ass kicked at that march.
(SIDE NOTE: you know Glen is Matt Weiner's real-life son ....)
Did anyone notice the camera angle where Betty and Helen were kind of duking it out...the cigarettes formed an X, like they were dueling with swords?
Helen Bishop would've been a welcome return until the creepiness with the boy happened. It's just VERY "yuck" all the Glen/Betty thing....
Yes, Mcmere the whole Betty/kid thing IS creepy. But its the only story line involving her that I give a damn about. Her punishing Don...big mistake. Her and the whole affair/set-up with horse boy and her girlfriend....boring housewife crap. She's fun to look at but really self-centered and she kinda bums me out.
omg, what a bitch Betsy is. go ahead, give the old man a romp in the hay, and say 'we were pretending'. While Don could have used the opportunity to acquiesce, she certanily pulling him around my his nutsack. Not cool, even by 60's standards.
Oh yeah whats up with the scenes with Betty and this kid. They make it seem like she has some type of interest, I dont know if it is that he wants to give her attention or the company im confused. It does seem creepy I hope it doesn't go the touchy feely way because my views will change of the sweetheart Betty.
Funniest scene: Betty and Glenn sitting on the couch watching cartoons. Her wearing her shorts, blouse and little-girl hair-do, sipping a Coke out of a straw. In that moment, she looked the happiest she's been all season.
Paul Kinsey on the bus to Selma??.... don't you think those black guys are going to eventually have to beat him up and toss him out the window? He is one arrogant, annoying snob. I don't know how Sheila can stand him.
Jonathan, yes, I thought the same thing - John McCain!
I love this show so much - thank you Matthew Weiner et al for intelligent television!
I loved seeing Glen and Helen again. I hope Betty and Helen get to be friends, although I hope Don and Betty don't divorce - please, say isn't so, Matthew!
Betty is not a pedophile - she and Glen have a soul connection. He understands her the way she wishes Don would. The fact that Betty called Helen proves she isn't a pedophil.
I'll write more later - have to watch the encore presentation.
I agree, Betty and Don's home life doesn't interest me nearly as much as the stuff in the office. Although I adore her little flip hair-do. What ever happened to that? Allan Sherman (remember him?) sang: "See how this one looks on me/Just like Jackie Kennedy..." I think Mary Tyler Moore had that hairstyle for a while.
you need therapy, stephanie joe....
Don was having a dream...the next morning that pink top bedspread was neatly tucked back on the bad while Don had the tan top cover. But it's kind of funny that the father wants to "get with" Betty as much as Don wants to.
I keep telling folks that Arm Charm Betty is a manipulative skank and folks make like she's a saint! Her storylines bore me and she drags down Don! I hope he gets laid in L.A. No, really gets laid!
BTW, Spiteful Betty will end up preggo by the finale!
I'm just glad that the scenes involving Glenn and Betty are over with. I'm glad that she ratted him out to his mother, I think that finally, Betty realized the creepiness factor of their relationship.
btw, thought that the song at the end as Don and Pete were on the plane together, sounded too futuristic, compared to 1962. Then again, they are traveling to a much more sophisticated destination which really was much more ahead in the coolness factor.
Next weeks eppie looks totally yummy.
I feel what you are saying Saunterer but Don is a cheating bastard and he deserves whatever Betty throws at him at this moment, She could of been like him and just screwed someone else but instead they are still married and she has the right to love her husband and throw him out.
Betty and the kid is creepy. As a child of the 60's I LOVED the choice of the song Telstar playing when Don and Pete were flying off to LA. Absolutely perfect! Someone gave Pampers as a baby gift, did we have those in the early 60's? I do not remember but perhaps we did.
Don was NOT having a dream, Betsy blew it off by saying "we were just pretending". Women are so callous....OK, Don is callous too, but women are supposed to be less so, right ?
The office people are much more interesting than Betty's weirdo family and Pete's cold relatives!
I want more of the office scenes! Paul and Sheila's interactions were cute! And it's good to see that some folks at SC give a damn--barely--about the world outside them!
What? Are you guys saying that Betty laying on top of Don at her parent's house was a dream-scene? Really? That didn't happen? I have to go watch it again...
to Marilyn 1966 - I just commented on the song. It came out in 1962, Telstar by the Tornados
Betty's father is acting more like he has dementia than the effects of a stroke. My paternal grandfather had dementia (before many people knew about or understood it) and acted like my mother was his wife. It creeped my mother out and she tried to avoid him, but never told my father. She didn't want to upset him and also thought he wouldn't believe it. My brother-in-law also has it now (Alzheimers) and the last time I visited them he asked her who I was.
honeysuckle, you have a point. Don will never admit his adultery, he's a pig. But she's lowering herself to his level. I would have hoped for better, she's always been good to him.
Saunterer, lookin for a fight? I'm not the one holding hands w/a child. Do u approve of that behavior? Uh oh, not another one!
Visan: Paul could give two shits about the world outside of SC. The only reason he went with Sheila is because Don took his seat to L.A. and he had the time off already planned. I'm not sure his social conscience is what he would have us believe. He's such a pompous asshole, I hope he gets his ass kicked. Paul is to me what Betty is to Visan...
Pampers came out in 1961.
What is the back story of Betty and the creepy kid? I didn't see the first season.
I wonder if Betty's dad has "touched" her before and this is the beginning of why Betty is the way she is. I think that's why we're now seeing a lot of her family. Her brother is creepy too.
Pete annoys me. I hope Don gives him hell.
Playing Telstar by the Tornados at the very end while Don and Pete are on the plane is a masterful touch. Whoever thought of it goes to the head of the class.
Some critic claimed the show this week would be good but I wasn't feelin' it this week! Too much creepiness with Glen and that old dude! Yuck!
Good one, zabadu. You might have something there. Interesting!
Steph, how can Betsy be so digusted with Don's adultery, and then just hop on for a piece of salami ? That's what you approved of, and even cheered for. Is that the sort of behavior you'd have your daughter perform ?
As far as the kid is concerned, she was being nice to him. As soon as he started to do more than just hold her hand for a minute, she put a stop to it. She knew the kid wasn't getting any warmth from his mother. Once she saw what the kid was up to, she called his mother.
Your innuendo about "uh oh, another one" is disgusting and as misplaced as can be. Don't be juvenile.
If Betty were molested previously by her dad, her having thoughts about a young boy may not be far off the mark. But I'm just guessing here.
I don't think Don is a pig. He's a product of his generation. Those who didn't live it don't understand.
Yes--I loved the song Telstar-it was very "futuristic." If I remember right, that was the name of the early unmanned satellite we had launched into space. I think Betts is playing a control game with Don. She will decide what happens--including if or when they will have sex. I think the guy on the bus wearing the hat looked like Barry Obama.
So are Pete and his brother lying to their Mother to protect her from ever finding out that Dad blew all their money? I thought they said Dad blew it all. Does she really have anything left to keep up that snooty lifestyle of hers?
I'm thinking that Pete is ready for another go 'round with Peggy and yet it seems as though he loathes her at times. I guess it must be a physical thing for both of them, Peggy seems so refined towards him and he acts as though he's so much better than she is. I'm thinking that Peggy has had her fill of Pete, she's got the reminder of their baby and the fact that Pete is so narsisstic. (sp)
Any takers that Peggy will offer up the baby to Pete and his wife to solve their "adoption" issue?
Saunterer, I think you're off the mark making value judgments of posters here. It isn't cool. It's a discussion.
And yes, I could see Betty jumping on Don to keep him wondering, and bolstering her courage to make a decision. It was also a way to shoot him down once they got home. Don will call her on it soon.
zabadu, if Don doesn't admit to his adultery, I don't care if it's the 1960's or the 1860's. He's done her wrong, and doesn't give a crap. I understand plenty. He's a pig
STEPHANIE JO -- yes, that Signature scene reminded me of Sex & the City too. When Trey's mother Bunny turned up her nose at the idea of having a Japanese baby in the McDougall family.
Saunterer: Men didn't do that then. You cannot compare a 1960s world to today. It just doesn't work that way. Let me guess, you're about 25, aren't you?
Betty & Glen IS very disturbing...and the fact that she was all alone in the house with a little boy that is so very highly infatuated with her...and having Don's clothes on?
Pete's mother is as arrogant to him as he is to others. But the "market not doing well"...LOL how history repeats itself.
Telstar by the Tornadoes-1962
Ahead of its time
The production folks at AMC must be baby boomers. They nailed this one!
@Laurie: I'm sayin' that at least somebody's perhaps giving a damn about Civil Rights who's associated with SC. And his going made others in the office take note. Not because they liked Civil Rights but they cared about him, maybe. I missed the social conscious that was brought up subtly last season through Midge and the Beatniks. So it's good to see that worked in the plot.
Plus, we all have characters that annoy the piss outta us. And Paul is to Laurie what SAB is to Visan! It's all good! LOL!
I thought I knew something about the early 60s having lived through them but maybe not....
...or are Pete and his family a particularily bloodless lot...the mother talking about disowning her son and daughter-in-law because they want to adopy?
.....Pete and his brother suggesting that their mom should aspire to an early demise because it appears that she will be unable to live in the manner to which she has become accustomed?
... who the hell does Pete think he is anyway..."why do you insist on making me angry before I go to sleep...this is the same man who was will will to "pimp" his wife out to gain some sort of mythical literary career?
.....Betty and Don certainly experiencing a really rough patch in their marriage....I kind of think they might get through this but then who knows?
Betty is just such an adolecent no wonder Glenn is trying to hit on her...
....Glenn is just such a pathetic figure...a child who is forced into an adult role because of a non nurturing mom..looking for love in alllll the wrong places...what made him think he could hide out in Sally's doll house...I just feel so very sory for him.
Don't you love Paul insisting that Hollis call him "Paul" in the elevator as if he'd already told him 100 times....Maybe Hollis ends up on the bus and tells the rest of the freedom riders what a wuss Paul really is.
Maybe it's better that Pete adopt so as to put an end to that creepy bloodline he comes from (although with Pete as a father no child stands a chance at growing up well adjusted). Hasn't there been some buzz about Pete having pontentially been adopted himself (which would make his mother's comments about drawing from the discards even meaner than it was).
I have been defending Betty in the past on the grounds of her drepression, but she is starting to work my last nerve afer this episode...
Maybe Helen & Glen came back into the storyline to acquaint Betty with the idea of ... divorce. And how it affects the children.
Much of this show seems to deal with loneliness .. and finding one's place in this world. And finding your footing again once you lose that place.
Visan, I agree so much about the office story lines being more interesting than all the other stuff.
I think the theme tonight — inheritance — can be seen in (of course) the scenes between Pete and his mother, and again in Pete and his wife considering adoption, and again in Betty's father saying of Don that he "has no people." I'm sure I probably missed some other connections.
The scenes from next week of Paul lecturing the freedom riders (remember them?) on Marxist philosophy and advertising looks awfully amusing.
I'm somewhat excited at the idea of an alliance (and more?) between Don and Joan!
Betty wasn't molested, her dad had a stroke and thought she was his wife who she looks just like. Her father isn't being himself.
Betty enjoyed glen's innocents and adoration because she is lonely and sad.
Betty slept with don that night because she loves him she misses him, she needed to be close to him. But that doesn't mean that he is allowed to come home. She wants Don but her heart is broken (how is that hard to understand?). After what don has done to her, why would you think betty is being cruel?
yes he did look like john mccain.
Saunt, it's called 'payback'. It's been done over and over and is very typical. And yes, I cheered, cuz that man is sooo hot, I was relating it to how I feel, not exactly for the show. He is her husband after all, and better off getting it from him, then from somebody else. With the kid, she only stopped holding his hand when somebody came in, otherwise, we don't know how long it would have went on for. Uh oh, meant that I thought u approved of the kid's & her actions. Next time you make a comment, make yourself Clear, then I can retort properly. You just left it hanging. Nice try, Saunt!
These Betty fans need to cease and desist with looking at that flake with blinders! She's an asshole like every character on Mad Men is an asshole, including Don!
Nicely put, MissSugar!
I LIKE SHEILA'S CHARACTER. AMC SHOULD KEEP HER.
With the subtext of Kinsey's involvement in the Civil Rights activities, Mad Men appears more and more to be foreshadowing the coming storm of the 60s, and the disintegration of the postwar 1950s Kodachrome era inhabited by Don Draper and friends. Any info/ gossip on what season 3 has in-store?I have a very strong premonition that the creators of Mad Men have set the trajectory of the series to climax with the assassination of JFK, which is really brilliant considering that the series very deliberately began in 1960, putting it after the 1950s, in that twighlight before the onset of the upheaval and turbulence of the real 1960s. The creators and actors of Mad Men have ingeniously drawn the viewer into a world where they are torn between revulsion at the crude social norms repressing women and blacks, and a simultaneous dread at what is in store once the 60s really take hold and convulse the nation. Thank you Mr Weiner and crew for bringing back ART to TV.
Another awesome episode, and a lot of prologue for next week. I love in the preview when Don in LA says to Pete 'do you really want to see me on vacation, Pete?' or something similar. I always loved when TV shows would have the 'Los Angeles vacation' episode. I think it will be hysterical to watch Don and Pete paint the town. Can't wait to see next week! A few thoughts on this week:
+Betty finally growed up. Some weird child-like stuff with Birdie this week -- saying she's an orphan, fooling around in her childhood room, the weird Glen thing. Laurie B, that image was hysterical -- drinking 'pop' not booze for the first time in awhile. But she clearly grows up a bit in this episode, even kicking poor Don out. She's gotta grow up, he's gotta come clean. It won't work otherwise.
+ Pete was awesome. I have to say, Pete's family sucks, and I was cracking up when he hit his mom with guns blazing over her foolish objection to adoption, as if that bloodline must be propagated at all costs. I also loved when he suggested the movie 'Rope' when discussing killing his mom. I initially thought he was using the 'first flight since my father died' just to get another couch session with Peggy. Maybe he was, but you had to feel a bit for him -- he has no one to talk to. (By the way, Tweetie and Birdie? Parallel marriages? Does Roger call Mona 'Crow' or something?)
+ Kinsey. I liked Hollis' reaction in the elevator when Kinsey said 'can't it wait' about the Civil Rights trip. That, and his ad speak on the bus painted him as pretty out of touch. It should get interesting. Don is clearly going to LA to escape from his troubles, but I think he also watched Kinsey act like an idiot at Harry's party and realize he's not fit to schmooze clients.
Also, I love how Joan and Don gave Roger the cold shoulder, and how Don stood up for Joan a bit by saying she's already doing a fine job holding down the fort.
Lastly, Betty's line about 'just pretending' is rich. Just that last night, or the whole thing?
Well, my dad had four strokes AND Alzheimers and never groped me, so I don't see that. I see a backstory somewhere.
If you watch the blog, he says this is about "growing up" and "taking charge" - and Don getting slapped in the face by Betty, so he ran.
The use of Telstar was a brilliant musical choice for the end of this episode. After all, what better song than one about a satellite since Don and Pete were flying to a convention of aerospace companies? I loved the way the sunrise slowly illuminated Don's face through the plane portal -- could that represent "a new dawn" for Don?
MartiniUp: See - that's another pompous Paul moment - in the elevator with Hollis - he's a jackass!
Visan: Ohhh I get what you're saying -- Weiner & Co. bringing civil rights into the show... yes, that's cool and I agree with you. I just wish it wasn't Pomp-ass Paul who has that story line. Unless of course, he gets his ass kicked, then I'll love it.
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
Poor Freddy, I miss him already.
I second that, Miss Sugar!
VISAN - if you truly think everyone on this show is an asshole, why do you watch?
What did you guys think of Betty's Dad's house keeper/maid. Once again it seems the lower you are on the Mad Men social pole, the more common sense and compassion you have.
this is the best show on tv right now...i must admit, sometimes i get lost in the story line...it changes so much but i guess that's part of the mystery..
Why does Don bump Paul from the LA trip? Just so he can take his place and get away from the Betty problems for a while?
You have to read more into the story lines with Betty, Glenn and her father. They're showing a woman of the 1960s. Stuck between her father and her husband, Betty really relates more to Glenn the child because that is how she is treated. The orphan comment mixed with all of it just shows her as a confused person trying to define what she is, who she is and what it is all about.
When I saw Betty on that couch with Glenn I finally realized how correct all of you were in saying she was an overgrown child. The writers basically broke it down for me.
She related to Glenn so much because she feels like she's in the same position. I think when she saw her kids she realized what her role truly was. I also kind of think that now she something to relate to Helen Bishop about; maybe learn a little from her situation.
The way she basically used Don for a sympathy lay and then tried to act like she was the righteous spurned housewife made me think how childish she was.
---
I actually felt sympathy for Pete in the scene with his mother. If he's a jerk, then it's clear to see where he learned it from. I was actually kind of gleeful that he was tearing her little glass house down.
Then we see him turn into a thoughtless prick again with Peggy. "You just have it so easy...."
---
He's not half as despicable as Mr. Paul Kinsey. UGH!
I wanted to punch him when he called up Sheila only after his West Coast party trip was cancelled. And then the nerve of him talking all that self-important B.S. on that bus ride. Like anyone on that bus ride was on the trip for their health!
He could care less about civil rights as much as he cares about looking the pristine progressive.
Joan had his number a long time ago!
(Joan also obviously dumped any esteem she had for Roger as well. Did anybody catch those darts she was throwing him?)
I now see the theme of this whole episode: ENTITLEMENTS
And there was no "stigma" to adoption in the 60s - it was encouraged and people did it all the time. It's when they started charging a fortune for these poor kids that adoption became too much of a hassle for most people.
Do you think Peggy even ties Pete to the baby, what with her psychosis about it and all?
And I agree, Betty fans scare me. She's got serious problems. Don is faking a whole life. Betty just wants appearances. She had a lot of nerve telling the neighbor how to mother her kids when she's such a bad one herself.
Saunterer called it - Betty didn't want to hurt Glenn's feelings but knew what was best for him, so she got him cleaned up and fed before calling his mother. I don't think she wanted too much drama so she waited until her kids got home to get him out of the way before calling Helen.
Does anybody know the real name of Pete's mother?
Y'all can go ahead and hate me now! But I'm soooo tired of all the scenes of the Draper's house, the Olsen's home and the Campbell manse! Too much emphasis on the home and not enough attention to the SC office has me rather bored! The Smiths and the Fellas and Hildy are interesting. I was happy to watch Sheila (isn't she a doll?) and Paul have a lunch date! Why? Because I'm damn tired of these other people at home!
Season 3 needs to be re-focused on the office! That is what made the first season kick-ass!
Oh common folks, Betty and the kid have an understanding, and Betty is an adult and knows what he's going through. It's probably even telescoping her relationship to her kids for her,
She starting to act like an adult again, and whatever her
feelings toward Don (dream or not), she seems to be coming out of her funk, because the kid is reaching out to her. Yeah, he has a crush on her, big deal.
I loved the surf guitars during the flight as well. I tend to think
they're one of the groups that's reviving that genre.... lol or
the Space Cossacks. But it's not the Space Cossacks, I have the cd in my car, but the name's not coming. Someone upthread said "Telstar", but that doesn't ring any bells for me.
I could be wrong.
I felt that the entire episode was primarily a 'set-up' for what's to come .... plot progression. Yes, I wasn't prepared for Joan's lack of tact in telling Kinsey he was off the trip.
The character's are still new to me, as I haven't seen the
first season (much) and need to remedy that soon.
“The New York Times Magazine” this week contains an article, “Character Issues,” questioning whether Jon Hamm “can pull off the James Gandolfini feat” of being “responsible for ensuring the show’s continuity and coherence” even though others (directors, writers, cast, crew) constantly changed around him. As Tony became more sinister and depraved, Gandolfini (although he personally disliked Tony and hated the violence required of him) entered fully and consistently into his character.
Virginia Heffernan, the writer, “worries” about Jon Hamm. She found Hamm’s portrayal of Don Draper more believable in the First Season than so far in the Second. “Perhaps Hamm, like many Hollywood stars, wants to be liked above all, and Draper is written as less likable in nearly every episode. If the show is to mature and last, Hamm will have to risk being hated.”
If you are interested in reading the complete article, click on the link and scroll down to The Medium, “Character Issues.”
http://www.nytimes.com/pages/arts/television/index.html
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
Poor Freddy, I miss him already.
I agree totally Visan! Betty is so Stepford, like you could wind her up.
The line Don uses for the next ep to Pete is "do you want me to make this a vacation for you, because I can". I think Pete will make Don very mad at this convention and might pay a price for it.
Joan and Don tossing daggers at Roger - loved that. In the previews, Roger asks Jane to marry him - I think she'll leave him after that. She herself said she was young and wanted to have lots of adventures.
Visan, I agree. the office scenes make the show. That said, I am jazzed about the idea of 'location' scenes both at a Civil Rights march and in LA, not to mention another flashback like in Hobo Code.
Visan: Sheila is a doll, but the poor girl is dating a world-class heel! Lose the zero, sister!
I had to look at my cd. It seems it's a 'cover' of Telstar by
Los Straightjackets or maybe it's Laika and the Cosmonauts.
Funny, that Russians and Hispanics have co-opted surf guitars.
The song WAS "Telstar", it was in the closed captioning.
So, I think I've missed something important. Why does Joan hate Paul so much? Did something happen between then during the Kennedy election episode in season 1?
I'm worried about Paul. I was just watching the commentary from season 1's dvd and it was mentioned that they were going to kill off one of the boys but decided that viewers liked them too much. Paul and Sheila keep talking about someone getting shot. Paul's an ass but I don't want him to die.
Poor Freddy, I miss him already.
@Sharon: I watch Mad Men because EVERY ONE is an asshole! NONE are saints, despite the insistence of the Betty fans/stans! I hate shows where characters are one-dimensional! And one cannot accuse Mad Men of painting their characters that way....
Mad Men series creator Matt Weiner and the cast discuss how, in Episode 210: "The Inheritance", Betty is forced to grow up, while Pete and Don do their best to avoid adult responsibilities.
A comment for "Remembering:"
I think, no, I know - Hamm is doing a wonderful job portraying Don Draper. Both last season and this one. His character has many layers yet to even be discovered and he'll pull that off brilliantly.
I love how Joan decides to deliver the message to Paul losing his LS boondoggle in the middle of the baby shower with a "don't shoot the messenger" attitude...and then asks if there is any cake left.
Don't your recall the past episode where the 'team'
was pitching the disposable diaper for their client?
As I recall the water activated granules used in 'pampers' were
an offshoot of the r&d being done for the space program (?)
Does anyone else here remember that, or am I confused? TIA
I too miss Freddy. :(
Madchen - You're right about Joan. Don told her to send Paul a memo, but she took it upon herself to announce it in front of everybody at the shower. She probably did it because of the look Paul gave her when he walked Sheila out for lunch.
Guess old feelings die hard.
Yes, they pitched Pampers a few shows ago.
This is from next week: On a business trip to Los Angeles, Don becomes acquainted with some exciting new friends. Peggy looks for romance at work. Duck starts thinking about the future of Sterling Cooper.
Paul's entire relationship with Sheila is all just being "stylish". Like when he threw the house party...wearing the ascot with smoking jacket & holding a pipe...He wants everyone to see how liberal & "with it" he is. When he was ousted out of the LA trip...it's suddenly his idea to go on the bus trip.
As a side note "advertising knows no color" NOT TRUE! It definitely knows the color GREEN. Because that is their first objective(why else grab a Jewish guy from the mailroom for the Menken account? And R&C hire a Black guy for their agency?)
I'm gonna cut Paul a lot of slack! He may be pretentious but at least he's putting his ass on the line for a cause!
I think this episode should be titled the uncomfortable episode. It was very rude of Joan to tell Paul he was not going to California, in front the whole staff. The Glenn and Betty scene was very creepy but, I think she was trying to respect his feelings as much she could. The line "nothing happened" is not something a normal mother in 1960 would have said to the child's mother. Women at that time were not likely to be suspected of pedophilia.
Visan: Paul did everything he could to get out of that trip with Sheila. He's only going now to save face with her = "I thought it over..." not "I don't get to go now". He dates her to be different and cool.
And in that day and age, I seriously doubt she would have been allowed into SC to begin with, even if it was to meet for lunch.
Right on, Jeri18. When Paul said that on the bus, I was like, "Yes, advertising is an equal opportunity exploiter. Thanks ad industry! You're so benevolent!"
I loved how he was beaming to Hollis, that Sheila was his girlfriend.
Did anyone notice how Betty just flippantly ignored Carla? One day her family's maid was a close confidante. The next, her own maid is trash. That Betty!
Telstar wasn't the first satellite, that was Sputnik, launched by the USSR. The first American satellite was Explorer. I think Telstar was the first commercial communications satellite, put up by At&T. The song is another story -- you'd think it is as American as can be but it's actually by an English band....
According to IMDb, a bunch of Italians are listed as cast members for next week's eppy.
Please have Don screw an Italian woman! :-P
Vermillion: I agree - "nothing happened" would never have been said.
As for "rude for Joan", Joan is all about telling it like it is, and Paul rubs her face in stuff all the time. She just jabbed him again, that's all.
zabadu: From the look on that receptionist's face as she escorted her along, Sheila seemed like a "tolerable" presence in the SC office at best.
The episode is entitled Inheritance--I do wonder as some of you have brought up if Betty's inheritance is not only ceramic vases but the sexualized relationship with the father. He may have multi-infarct dementia but perhaps there is even more. She sees herself as an orphan even as she is held by a woman that mothered her. Obviously, Pete didn't receive any financial legacy but he inherited the full birthright of snobbery and viciousness. Don's inheritance of course is from the dishonest man. What the series points to is how these inheritances shape the characters' behaviors now. I love this show!
It's not just this one action of Betty's, she's done many questionable inappropriate scenes besides with this child. She let that salesman in the house in her sexy penoir, and then she kicked him out after she regained her senses. Then when her car broke down, and she bargained w the man to fix it w/out cash. He grabbed her hand after, then she just took it back. A bit of a tease but it's really that she just needs undivided attentions of anybody. Although the boy needs hers, she shouldn't be holding his hand and cutting off locks of her hair for him. Gross!
I do wonder now if her capricious behavior might signal signs of sexual abuse. What say you all?
The theme to me is that, despite appearances, no one is happy with their legacy. Betty is not happy with her family's turning a blind eye to her father's stroke and dementia. Pete, despite his blueblood pedigreee, is appalled both that his father's profliglate ways have left him without any monetary interitance and that his mother is even more of a venal lowlife than he is. Glen, poor child, is trying to create an idealized family with Betty because he has been swept aside by both his father and mother. This was a more subtle episode than the last two but it is setting the stage for the coming changes. The "Telstar" closing song was in 1962 a modern paean to a hopeful, idealized vision of the future of space that would open new horizons. As a ten-year old, I remember the electronic, space-age sounds of Telstar as the dawning of new age where conquering space was no longer science fiction. The dawning of the sunlight on Don's face as he vectored toward LA was such a transparent signal that he is seeing with new eyes. I can't wait for next week's episode.
The relationship between Betty and Glen is extremely awkward. I thought their relationship in season one introduced some odd behavior. I am wondering where the writers plan on taking this story if not dropping it all together. Don's off to L.A... maybe he'll stay there after seeing all the California girls!
Talk about these themes and more at the Mad Men Lounge!
See, Joan lost me as a fan when she was rude to Sheila for no good reason!
Hey! I've always stated that Paul and all the other characters are assholes much of the time. But at least he went! Like I've said, he's getting cut a lot of slack because I want to see more of Sheila on the show.
Remembering, I just read that -- I disagree with the writer as well. Hamm's acting style reminds me of William Hurt back in the 'Accidental Tourist' days. All very subtle and internalized.
Also, I love the closing shot of Draper looking out the window, 'watching the city disappear behind him' like he said earlier.
Eric, re: Joan and Paul. They had a one-night stand, which he apparently blabbed about. Joan was rude to Sheila at his party, then mocked Kinsey for what she saw as the motives for his interest in Sheila. Kinsey responded by going into Joan's locker, photocopying her license and posting in with her date of birth (1931, making her 31) circled. This is an escalating little war, which Kinsey will probably lose.
I never realized how loaded Betts' parents are! Nice place her pops has.
Loved the sun on Don's face through the airplane window at the end. The show is absolutely amazing...
Some of yall are right, Betty did call his mother. If she was going to continue anything she would of stayed quite and let him stayed there and who knows what would of happened. Do anybody really think that Betty's dad molested her when she was little? I dont know too much about strokes and how effective it is on the brain, I thought he just forgot who she was at the moment.
In season 1 when Joan is escorting Peggy to her desk for her first day and she's explaining office politics she mentions something about making mistakes with men, Paul walks by and Joan says something like, like that one. So, in the past she had a fling with Paul. Is Betty's full name Elizabeth? I think the dad or somebody called her that name. It was funny when Betty was telling Helen that she was a bad mother and what she needs to do to be a better mother. I hope Betty was listening to her own advice.
Zabadu: I get it. "Telstar" was written/recorded by the Tornadoes in 62, but the genre has had a big revival and it's since been covered by others. That's all I'm saying, thank you very much.
Thanks oldfashioned!
JulesAH and Zabadu: I used diaper service for my daughter in 1960-61, but someone posted that Pampers came out in 1962. Diaper service was probably better for the ecology.
Zabadu to Saunterer: Men didn't do WHAT back then - cheat on their wives? I had a lot of married men chasing me in 1962 and had to shoo them away.
Does anyone know if Betty's folks are in the Philadelphia area? A couple of mentions like Elkins Park Hospital came up and Elkins Park is in the Philly suburbs.
While Don and Betty are at her dad's house Don tells her "You should eat." Betty responds by telling him "No one's watching." It seems to me that Betty is finally coming to terms with what her marriage has been...a show. She knows now that she and Don can't relate to eachother on an emotional level...sexual yes, but emotional definetely no. Later on, Glenn asks Betty "Aren't you going to eat?" She responds in a totally different manner. She smiles and nibbles on some of the food. Perhaps this is because she knows that Glenn is truly concerned about her?
I do wonder now if her capricious behavior might signal signs of sexual abuse. What say you all?
I said that at the beginning.
Telstar: That was the orignal recording.
Betty is a nickname for the formal name "Elizabeth".
Paul and Joan have a wicked history of abusing each other.
Betty's conduct through all the situations was appalling at best. "I want my mother's stuff" "I hate the new wife" "We're just pretending" "Glen's savior, then turns on him" even though it was seriously creepy letting him wear Don's clothes.
I don't think Betty could handle a divorce - Don is basically all she has. She just needs power right now and the situation led to her being the power right now. But I think Don will have a little fun in L.A. once he knocks Pete down a few pegs. Hates him anyway. He defended Peggy to Pete, and now I think he's going to give him a few "lessons" while they are there.
Have to say that Jon Hamm kicks ass in that role week after week! Setting aside all the fangirlyness and bullshit....He anchors Mad Men and the show wouldn't be what it is if he didn't have the acting chops! He's always damn good when the episode is not a personal favorite.
Eric: no problem.
Re: Betty, I don't think her father sexually abused her. He appears to have early-onset dementia or something. I don't think her relationship with Glen is, for her, the least bit sexual. She needs attention and still feels like a child -- and has probably spent her whole life being adored by her father and other men. (I've wondered before, however, about Don's history of abuse as a child in a post called 'Diagnosing Don.' We already know its physical). Betty allowed for the relationship to turn awkward because she needs the attention and has no one to talk to; I think she genuinely realized at the end of this episode that Glen's attention isn't just because she's beautiful, but because his mom isn't there for him.
Seems like the episodes are getting darker. Definetly agree Betty's dad resembles John Mc Cain & then there was that disturbing scence with Betty & that kid. Yes, it was creepy, but seeing Betty sitting there watching cartoons & drinking coke out of a straw showed how childlike she really is-does anyone remember a similar scene from 60's movie Lolita with Carol Lynley & James Mason?
Anyhoo, liked that the show is willing to push boundries & creep us out a little. Speaking of comparisons & character development, yes, this show does remind me a little of the Sopranos.
Kudos to January Jones (Betty), she does an amazing job.
I haven't contributed much before, I have been reading the boards but felt compelled to comment on tonight's episode.
As my hubby and I are now going through adoption process after going through years of fertility treatments, I have really come to loathe the Pete Campbell character. He can't even talk about the fertility issue w/ his wife Trudy without getting angry at her. I feel so bad for Trudy having to deal with trying to change her husband's attitude so they can have a family. Ewwww! Pete Campbell....(shaking fist)! You are such a mean one Mr. Grinch! (okay, sorry its too early for Grinch) lol! And the episode few episodes back, I hated how he acted towards his wife when they got back the results from his semen anaylsis-so cold and cruel! UGH! that comment about "do I have to put my foot down?" would not fly in my house!! boy, times have changed!
And yet when he is at his mother's house Pete Campbell seems to soften a bit....even if he is considering adoption just to anger his mother. I think his mother's comments about "the discarded ones" was so mean but I know there were those that thought about adoption like that back then. But I don't get it....back in 1962 all couples really had was adoption right?- There was no In Vitro Fertilization, not even artificial insemination to be able to help couples with fertility issues. But yet adoption was also looked down upon as well, at least by Pete Campbell's family. I believe this was said by someone before but I think Pete Campbell has a really dark side we are just getting around to see only part of it...kinda creepy when he made reference to the Hithcock movie "The Rope".
I don't think Peggy would offer up her child as her son is now 2 years old and seems like from what I've seen, Anita, Peggy's sister, is raising the child as hers right?? Plus, I have my doubts Peggy will ever mention their child to Pete since Don told her "This never happened." Gosh! I am soooooo HOOKED on this show!!! Other shows I record and watch later but I can't seem to get enough of MM. Anyone besides me watch previous episodes if they run across it during the week? It's like I can't get enough of this show!!
wasthere, Betty is a Main Line girl (philly, for those who don't know). Even went to Bryn Mawr.
I’ve started several threads for this episode so that the Open Thread doesn’t end up with hundreds of comments that are all over the place in terms of content. Hopefully this will ease people’s frustration. I’ve included a brief comment about what each thread’s main idea is.
If someone asks a question in this Open Thread that is being discussed in another thread, you may wish to make a brief comment that directs people to various other threads rather than to restating yourself here so that there isn’t too much duplication. This will also reduce the number of overall posts in any one thread. Yes, there will be overlap in terms of ideas and opinions within various threads, but hopefully people won’t have to weed through comments about anything and everything the way they did last week.
If it works, we can do it again for rest of the episodes this season by simply changing the thread titles to Episode 11: ???. If people begin to create a more organized framework for reading and posting comments, they will know that there is a standard thread about each episode where they can comment on a certain topic as opposed to the Open Thread.
If this doesn’t work, well, it is at least worth a try in terms of organizing the of the threads so that people aren’t overwhelmed with hundreds of posts in a single place .
1. Go the Mad Men main page (www.amctv.com/originals/madmen)
2. Click on the link for Talk Forum in the gray window.
3. Click on the link for List of All Talk Topic Discussion Threads
4. Scan the Thread Titles and look at the descriptions so that you can click on the ones that seem to be related to what you want to read about or make a comment.
Here are the threads I started.
1. Episode 10: The Inheritance—A Walk Down 1960s Memory Lane
2. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Props Department
3. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Fashion Folder
4. Episode 10: The Inheritance—What Does the Title Mean?
5. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Who Is That Character?
6. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Notable Quotables
7. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Mad Men’s Social Commentary on the Values of the 1960s
8. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Snips and Snails and Puppy Dogs’ Tails
9. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Sugar and Spice and Everything Nice
13. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Theories Based on the Preview for Next Week
14. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don, Betty, Sally, and Bobbie Draper and Betty's family
16. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Peter and Trudy Campbell and their respective families
18. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Team Draper and Olson
20. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, General Discussion
21. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, I Love That Alpha Dog
22. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Don Draper, I Hate You
23. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, General Discussion
24. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, I Sympathize with You
25. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Betty Draper, I Hate You
28. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Pete Campbell
29. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Joan Holloway
31. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Boys of Sterling Cooper
32. Episode 10: The Inheritance—Other Boys
33. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Girls in NYC and the Suburbs
34. Episode 10: The Inheritance—The Working Girls, Love Interests, and Clients of Sterling Cooper
Perhaps this will help keep the Open Thread from becoming one giant blob of a thread.
Or not. %-)
Wasthere: I study the 1960s. Here is a quote from one of my research books:
In 1961, Proctor and Gamble did it with Pampers, the first affordable, fully disposable diaper. And they were well rewarded, selling $30 million worth in the first three years.
Don Draper always gets his revenge! And there's 3 more episodes for that asshat Lame Duck to finally reap what he's sown as an ingrate. SAB must pay for taking away his salt! And Pete Campbell is simply an asshole! Those 3 need to get their comeuppance because they messed over Don!
Whoa... sorry all about the triple post above.
I don't think Betty's father molested her. I think he is just all messed up since the stroke (or two). He mistook Betty for his wife once... maybe he was doing it again when he groped her in front of the family... how uncomfortable.
My two favorite lines: Sal's line at the shower: '"Here's to the little one, whatever it may be." and the non sequitor "Happy Birthday" from Mr. Cooper.
Some were wondering about the Draper dog and he turned up in this episode. I forgot the dog's name.
wasthere: Yes, it was established in an earlier episode (maybe a couple) that Betty is from the Philadelphia area. Another Grace Kelly connection! I believe that there was even a reference to the Mainline. We're here in Philly, so we always catch those local references. Remember the Cape May reference from Season One? Someone on staff knows the area.
I prefer the open discussion, thanks anyway.
I think the make out moment between Betty and Draper was a dream. Not sure which one may have been dreaming it, but it looked disconnected like it was an imagination. i guess we'll never know...
The Dad did look like McCain, but much taller and healthier.
I agree that Betty should get over it and either divorce him or set some ground rules to move on. She nor him can continue like this... as a matter of fact, i think he went to CA to get over her.
Didn't she watch THE WOMEN? It had been out almost over 20 yrs back then :-)
The little boy scenes are to show us how insecure she really is and the reality of how someone could do what we've seen happen lately with teachers and their inmature students. Personnally, i'm not sure why MadMen was thought to only refer to Men -it's obviously the Women too :-).
Is it just me; but right after we blogged about the fact that none of the black people in the film ever talked, it's all changed... Great job!
And, yes... many people still feel the same way about adoption -Note... it's usually the same people that profess being ProChoice and concerned about preserving their blood line/race. Remember, people have just learned better (through diversity trng) not to say it out loud anymore.
jack
Speaking of Lolita, I notice on IMDB that it was released in June 1962...
Again, my father had 4 strokes and Alzheimers and he never got inappropriate with any of us. Doesn't usually work that way.
I think we'll hear more about Betty's past soon enough.
The song is "Telstar", the original version (it has been covered all over the place and part of the melody was lifted by Blondie for their hit "Dreaming"), by The Tornados. It was one of many space-themed recordings from that period, such as "Destination Moon" and "Everyone's Gone To The Moon". It was named after our pioneering telecommunications satelitte. It is also notable for being a very early example of Phase-shifting being applied to the entire recording (as opposed to the leslie effect on the keyboard).
holy crap where do you start? ok like everyone else i had a ton to say about everything regarding the first 45 minutes. however, what a turn it took when we saw the re-emergence of glenn.
ok while general morons will be morons regarding this dynamic, at least we smart people get what it's really about.
what i really find interesting, even beyond what was the dynamic last year about how a kid is the only one immature betty can relate to, i think it went a level deeper tonight.
what the whole thing went to tonight is that in betty's eyes, little glenn is more of a real man with real feelings than big don is.
he's not a real man, but he gives her more of what the real man does: understanding. attention. caring. and did you notice two things:
1, glenn has the exact same hair don has, as in being a little yet uncorrupted don, and 2) after she takes glenn out of the play house, her hair was up and then soon after it's down and made up. she likes the attention. women do stuff like that.
another thing, notice the correlation between them in that betty hates her stopmom and glenn hates his stepdad. they're two people who speak two different languages but have something in common. which of course goes back to the original global concept of this show, which is exploring the art of dichotomy, yet sometimes unity.
but that's just me and what i observe. i've a got a bunch more and hope others do as well.
i see we're at many posts in an hour after the first airing. if it gets a little too crowded or stuffy in here you can move over to my litte thing. stick with this board first always, but if you want some breathing room we can start a little thing in addition if anyone wants. i started it with my own little opines to feel free to chime in if you want.
Another "hamm" comment, this time from little Glenn. He told Betty he really didn't like ham.
I haven't read all the comments, so forgive me if I am preaching to the choir, but I gotta say this episode lost me with the Betty and her boy friend interlude. That was seriously creepy, and all my maternal instincts about leapt through the screen to grab that child and give Betty a stern talking to. I bet the old family retainer, Viola, would have set her straight in a real big hurry. About the only thing good that came out of those scenes was finally seeing the kids' dog. At least we know she is safe, and Betty hasn't cooked her for the kids' dinner just to get even with Don. At this point, though, I wouldn't put it past her.
The funnier thing, from my vantage point as an unreconstructed smoker, is watching DD disappear behind a cloud of cigarette smoke just as soon as the stewardress announces that "the no-smoking light is off" and "Telstar" begins playing.
I agree with Old Fashioned to some extent. Betty's relationship with Glen may not be sexual but it is sexualized as are all Betty's relationships with men. For some reason, she is stuck in late childhood or adolescence with all her relationships--even her kids. All that can raise the possibility of abuse but it could also be the beauty queen entitlement. When she call Glen's mom and when she tells Don they were just pretending, she is growing up. I wonder if Don will join her- NOT
Liked the way Betty's dad showed his true feelings towards Don during his attack. "MY daughter live like a princess" but you can't rtrust a man who has no family. Looks like Don has proabaly exceeded pa in law on the wealth tip and paw is jealous.
What did he get a Lincoln? No a blue caddy --
Brother said -- "you and Don could afford to build dad a house behind yours -- and a shot at their back yard showed him to be true.
I don't like Shelia. And I do feel Paul and Joan had a fling and he dumped Joan. Joan is scorned. Maybe Paul is from money and for him to be so blatant with his interracial relationship, he has little to lose.
Maybe Betty was molested by dad. Because he didn't seem embarrased or say he was sorry after she pulled away.
Betty and Don conceived a 3rd child tonight is my prediction.
But I wish Don had dropped her off at home and just left. He was too eager to come back. He should have not even gone with her. Why did she call him anyway? I would have said. Let me come over and keep the kids so you can go to see about your dad.
Don cheats for several reasons, but he is not a selfish cad. He is an abused little boy, not unlike Glenn. He cheats as a coping mechanism -- under stress -- cin response to a crazy wife who is probably not sexually satisfying. EVERYONE IS DEPENDING ON HIM and he has to please.
I have renewed respect for Don. He is a coward; he is a cheater; but he wantsto do good.
Ok, please someone share with me The Glenn situation ? All i remember was Betty Slapping some Lady in a superMarket Last year episode. I do Not know how Glenn, this little Boy came into the show , a neighbor ?
This episode had one of those rare moments when Don looked unguarded and vulnerable. As upset as I am with him for messing things up by messing around, I felt so sorry for him when Betty told him to leave. He was hurt and confused, and I can't blame him for wanting to run away -- after being pushed away for so long, it seems he is letting the momentum carry him further.
Some of you folks are SO judgmental. Look, every last one of the characters does something that makes them unlikeable at times. And yes, Betty has been immature and the scenes with her father and Glen are creepy. If you'll take a deep breath before you spout off your half-baked theories of sexual abuse, pedophilia, etc. you might realize that all this is building toward something. It's a little concept known as "character development". Some of you folks need to just open a beer before the show and relax.
Now, on to a serious question: What was the magazine Don picked up on (Kinsey's?) secretary's desk before he went to Harry's baby shower? Did it have anything to do with Don's bumping Paul Kinsey off of the California trip? Or was that all about Don wanting to run away from his problems?
I couldn't make out the title (I backed up the DVR a few times); I was wondering if it was some kind of socialist and/or civil rights movement tract or something (Paul does seem to be something of a student of Marxism, or at least a poseur of one.). I guess suspicion of being a Marxist would be a good reason to keep him away from a convention of government defense contractors...
Glenn's Mom cam in as the first neighborhood divorcee. Betty invited her to Sally's B'day party and they started talking some. The other women were threatened. But Betty and the mom formed a neighborly friendship. During that course she asked Betty atthe sur of the moment one evening to come over and babysit Glenn and his sister one evening.
Betty did -- and Glenn admitted to her he had a crush and asked for a lock of Betty's hair as a keepsake. She weirdly gave him one.
Glenn's mom found out and stopped him from seeing Bettty. So tonight was the first time there was interraction since the hair gift.
Thanks SirDarby
Eric, it all happened in season 1 Ep 4 "New Amsterdam". Here is the synopsis from the website...
Back at Helen's, Betty and Glen watch "Gang of Outlaws" on TV when she gets up to use the restroom. As she lifts her dress and sits on the toilet, Glen opens the door and stares. She yells at him to get out. He cries, apologizes and then hugs her, much to her surprise. Moments later, he asks if he can have some of her hair. Spotting a pair of sewing scissors, she obliges his request before sending him to bed.
next time I'll edit better but you get the point. Glad to help.
sirdarby: I think other posters were on to something when they suggested that Don may have abuse issues himself. He clearly has a sex addiction that probably preceded his life with Betty.
Also, remember that Joan made it clear to the audience last season that Paul "kissed and told", so I don't agree that he just dumped her. Betrayed somehow, though, yes, IMHO. I don't not like Sheila, but it kind of shows that she is not really a major character in the show. She's around to show us what Paul's really made of. And I feel like we'll find out real soon.
"Hamm, ham, Hamm, ham.'' I think the kid is precocious --
and not sexually -- tho he does say his mom's been entertainin' a lot of menfolk lately. He's a vegetarian and he reads comic books. Clearly the marks of a higher intelligence, lol.
As I said, I have not seen the first season (yet), but Betty
was giving him locks of her hair?! Is that an old Bryn Mawr
tradition, or what ??!!! lol Something's not right in Denmark.
A crush is a powerful thing in a young boy's life.
It's the very first thought of Romance a small boy has and typically is completely free of Sex thoughts as the child is simply in a dream state, Not a sexual agressive state.
adlandrefugee, I believe it was the "California" brochure that all the boys were looking at earlier in the episode when they were planning their trip. I think Don saw it on the desk and made the decision that he was going to Ca.
My impressions of about the non-dream sex…
Don’t feel bad for Don. He doesn’t really want to get back with Betty, she is boring to him and she knows that he doesn’t really desire her. They are also both completely incapable of emotionally communicating with each other, they just lack compatibility there. He wants to keep his wife, children, home, social status and the comfort he has created in that arrangement. He has been remorseful, but I think he’ll keep moving “forward”.
Maybe she was on a bit of a power trip and trying to say “see what you’re missing”, but maybe this was the first time Betty ever separated sex from love and she just felt like it ‘cause he was there. She is exploring a new role, probably as an initiator of sex, but also what it might be like to be casual about sex. I enjoyed seeing that Don gets up in the morning and she is already downstairs – he still slept on the floor (he deserves the dog house).
In the Valentine's Day episode she tells Don in bed, 'I wish you would just tell me what to do...' so she knows that she doesn't satisfy Don in bed - the affair(s) reinforce this.
Like many young women, and probably without the benefit of a lot of sexual experience, it has taken her time to grow into her own sexuality. Sadly, these two will probably grow more if they are apart.
Don's gonna have to get his power back! I don't like him being hen-pecked and a "good boy!" I like the bad-ass who takes no shit! They got three episodes to give me back Dapper Don!
"Happy Birthday"... too funny!
I grew up in suburban Philly in the 50's and 60's. I believe they are trying to make Betty more and more like Grace Kelly every episode. This week she went to her father's home which looked a lot like a home that would be on the Main Line (a wealthy area where I believe the Kelly's lived). She is dressed and her hair is done exactly like Grace Kelly. Her father tells Don that she is a princess (Princess Grace) and he comes from no one. I read where Grace Kelly's dad insisted that she marry Prince Ranier even though she wasn't so in love with him. Grace Kelly had a brother, Jack, an athlete and well known in the Philly area. He dropped dead of a heart attack in his 40's while jogging. Her dad had a stroke and that is also what Grace Kelly herself died from. Also, when they made love, she was on top. I don't believe I've ever seen them do it in anything but the missionary position. By the way, I've read Grace Kelly was also very sexually active before her marriage. I think the writers are grooming Betty for fame. She used to be a model. She could certainly use her beauty and former modeling contacts to start a career. The casting is great on this show. She is the only female character who could actually become famous because of her beauty. The other characters are attractive women, but nothing special. Maybe she'll become a top model (like Suzy Parker) or an actress (like Grace Kelly). She would be known all over the world and be making way more money than Don. She wouldn't need him then. It wouldn't hurt for him to get a taste of his own medicine. Because, after this episode, I believe he is realizing he does love her. I'm a romantic and still hope they get back together, but Don and Betty both have to change a lot.
As for Paul and Joan ? That never happened Joan made it up to throw Paul's girl friend off. Joan would never admit any Man had her and discarded HER, She's too Proud.
The whole Betty and Glenn storyline is incredibly awkward and very creepy. I don't so much think she called Glenn's mom because she realized the reason behind Glenn's attention was that needs a mother figure, I thought she was more concerned about what would happen if he stayed. Who knows what he may have said or done once her children went to bed? As far as her being sexually abused, I can't see her being that concerned about someone who abused her as a child. That kind of thing sticks with you and hardens you. I reelly hope thats the end of her and Glenn.
The whole Betty and Glenn storyline is incredibly awkward and very creepy. I don't so much think she called Glenn's mom because she realized the reason behind Glenn's attention was that needs a mother figure, I thought she was more concerned about what would happen if he stayed. Who knows what he may have said or done once her children went to bed? As far as her being sexually abused, I can't see her being that concerned about someone who abused her as a child. That kind of thing sticks with you and hardens you. I reelly hope thats the end of her and Glenn.
Forget my query, Sirdarby. We must have posted at the same time. Now I understand,,, errr or rather I don't ... but all things will be revealed ;-)
I agree with you GuySmiley. Don and Betty's abusive backgrounds were attraction points -- so interesting that the family maid was the actual one who raised Betty. Telling how she told Betty to practically forget about her dad and focus on Don and her kids. So I think the maid knows the full story about Betty and Don and she is giving the best advice after knowing the full story about the family history.
Betty does not seem like she came from a family where a child out of wedlock is usual. She comes from some level of wealth -- and her dad is so venomous towards Don. He may have been abusing Betty and she got pregnant so he'd leave her alone. From the frying pan to the flame.
Eric,
Ahh...I didn't make that connection to the California brochure. You're probably right. That supports the theory that Don went on the trip to run away from his domestic troubles.
I guess I'm a little disappointed; I was wondering if Paul's political/civil rights involvement and interracial relationship are about to damage his career. Or maybe he just gets his butt kicked by rednecks at the protest rallies. I'm sure we'll find out soon.
I grew up in suburban Philly in the 50's and 60's. I believe they are trying to make Betty more and more like Grace Kelly every episode. This week she went to her father's home which looked a lot like a home that would be on the Main Line (a wealthy area where I believe the Kelly's lived). She is dressed and her hair is done exactly like Grace Kelly. Her father tells Don that she is a princess (Princess Grace) and he comes from no one. I read where Grace Kelly's dad insisted that she marry Prince Ranier even though she wasn't so in love with him. Grace Kelly had a brother, Jack, an athlete and well known in the Philly area. He dropped dead of a heart attack in his 40's while jogging. Her dad had a stroke and that is also what Grace Kelly herself died from. Also, when they made love, she was on top. I don't believe I've ever seen them do it in anything but the missionary position. By the way, I've read Grace Kelly was also very sexually active before her marriage. I think the writers are grooming Betty for fame. She used to be a model. She could certainly use her beauty and former modeling contacts to start a career. The casting is great on this show. She is the only female character who could actually become famous because of her beauty. The other characters are attractive women, but nothing special. Maybe she'll become a top model (like Suzy Parker) or an actress (like Grace Kelly). She would be known all over the world and be making way more money than Don. She wouldn't need him then. It wouldn't hurt for him to get a taste of his own medicine. Because, after this episode, I believe he is realizing he does love her. I'm a romantic and still hope they get back together, but Don and Betty both have to change a lot.
Adlandrefugee: It wasn't a magazine, it was a travel brochure on Los Angeles - Kinsey and Pete both had them because of their upcoming trip to the convention in California.
Sorry about the double post
I loved Betty's Dad's line to Don "You act like it's nothing"....
And also his "He has no people" line about Don. Ironic that the man with the memory issues seems to hit those 2 issues right on the head.
I love how Don calls Betty "Birdie",
What a BITCH Betty is saying "Stop it Don, nobody's watching" when he shows concern about her getting something to eat
I'm glad someone else noticed the "nothing happened" comment about Glenn. That was creepy. NOT something one mother would say to another about a child. Very definitely something one would say about someone else's husband though. CREEPY!
On a side note Weiner's son who plays Glenn is brilliant. The kid shows incredible range and you can feel his pain.
Loved loved loved "Telstar" at the end too with the sun rising on Don's face, perfect match.
This episode wasn't as explosive as I anticipated..that being said..
Part of the 1960's and the ensuing cultural movements included women's lib. Betty's role is to show how many women felt and were treated, what was expected of them and from them. Times would be changing soon, as we all know gender roles is a constant theme in the show. Betty's character portrays a stereotype that would be given an opportunity to change.
Don as well will be changing, I believe that is why the final scene is him looking out the window of the plane, the sun illuminating his eyes, while Pete next to him has a blindfold on.
Those that love the NYNY ol' boy of 1950's DD may as well watch season 1 over and over on DVD. The show will be taking turns away from this. I have no predictions, but I have a feeling each character will wind up eons away from where we took up with them. Isn't that the moral of the 60's and counterculture movement???
Visan
I agree!! Don is our 60's J.R. Ewing(with a little more complexity) and Betty is Sue Ellen(finally showing a little backbone). JR was never quite the same after Sue Ellen threw him out of South Fork. We need Don to get back to "business"!
xolotls58er: I totally disagree that an abused child would not be concerned for their parent. I think that the actual fact that they're still concerned for people who do such harm to them is what messes them up so badly and allows for the compartmentalization.
I just know that from a couple of experiences I had knowing women who had histories in which their father's had a sexual relationship with them. I think that's makes it so hard to get over or even come to terms with.
When a good friend of mine finally came to a point where she could be truthful about what her father was doing in the family, it basically caused a rift where she never spoke to him again. She's a stronger, more self-actualized person now. But before, she was trying to be a good daughter and wipe that out.
So I do not agree with that. Betty might still have a lot of concern for her father, in spite of abuse.
It isn't necessary for Betty's father to have sexually abused her to explain his and Betty's behavior. He's demented and she's learning to assert herself (albeit in some underhanded and clumsy ways).
THERE IS NO INCEST HERE, PEOPLE. What's happening is much more subtle and interesting than that. Now either pay attention, or go watch the FOX network.
I guess its different for everyone, I was reffering to more personal experiences. I apologize for the double post, my pc is messed up.
Grace Kelly , Yes ... thats Betty.
As much as I like bad-ass Don Draper, he's gotta kick several more asses to even be in "J.R. Ewing" realm! And I disagree about the "Sue Ellen" comparison. She didn't creep me out with little boys hanging out at the Ewing Ranch!
I want Don in bad-ass mode again! Betty drags this man down!!
Did anyone pick up on the daggers DD was shooting at Roger toward the end of the episode?? Still rumbling from last week's fiasco.
I think Betty treated Don exactly the way he deserves to be treated on tonight's episode. After all, she's known for awhile that he's been cheating on her. He still lies about it and you know, if she would have let him come home, he would be right back out cheating next week, probably in LA.
Madlib: Lolita was played by Sue Lyon, not Carol Linley.
Phillygirl: Although I lived in North Jersey the majority of my life, I moved to the Philly suburbs (Ft. Washington) 10 years ago.
Sir Darby: What is not to like about Sheila???
Zabadu: Why didn't I know about Pampers at the time -- I used everything that was the latest like Enfamil vs. making my own formula and thought diaper service was the latest.
Zabadu: Re Alzheimers: My parents had a friend who was a very dignified banker, but when he got the sickness he began to expose himself to others. Very sad.
I search the civil rights marches and Freedom riders Deaths... I couldn't find Paul Kinsey name as someone who was killed. I think up-coming episode he'll be beaten up , either in the City or while down south.
I searched the civil rights marches and Freedom riders Deaths... I couldn't find Paul Kinsey's name as someone who was killed. I think up-coming episodes he'll be beaten up , either in the City or while down south.
Visan
Wasn't thinking about the little boy aspect as I was thinking about the "drinking" Betty's been doing since she threw Don out the house. As for the JR comment it was just the philandering he did certainly not the dirty under-handed business ethics. I don't think any character can compare to JR on that level.
How about the line Betty said to Glenn's mom talking about Don, "he takes the kids out to dinner, they've suddenly become important to him." Not sure I got the line exactly. I do think Don loves his kids, but I also think he may be using the dinner dates as an excuse to see Betty also.
As for Paul Kinsey going South ... everyone and myself think he'll be in a fight or something. However , I have never read of anyone on here predicting Correctly any events in an up-coming episode. We're probably all wrong about Paul getting into a fight. I think his Girl will see thru his attempts to be interested in the civil rights movement, surely.
I hope the writers won't use the civil rights trip to have something happen to Sheila just to make Paul wakeup to the real world?
Even in 2008, there are still people who are uncomfortable with a black woman and white man dating. I'm not saying this is anyone on this forum, but there are people who just don't like that particular interracial coupling. It's this nuttiness of thinking a white man has rejected the "beauty standard" by falling in love with a sista. It's 2008 and people need to get the fuck over that!
I've read on the netz how this week's show Carla, Sheila and Hollis are being dissed. These characters had a total of 6 lines or less. How are those 3 taking over Mad Men!?
Wasthere Shelia does not see her relatioship with Paul for what it is. She is trying to make it deep. When it is very shallow.
Black & White is Fine ... After all , just look at my Face I'm split in the middle !!
eric, the "Glenn situation" is this: In season 1
Helen called Betty to babysit Glenn and her baby while she went to help at the Kennedy Election headquarters. Betty had to rush up finishing cooking dinner for her family to go help Helen but she did so. She and Glenn were watching TV and he started complimenting her (1st hint of Creepy Deluxe coming) She needed to go to the bathroom and was looking through a drawer and saw a diaphragm (I think!) and other stuff I forgot...anyway she neglected to lock the door and soon (as she had just sat on the "throne" and began to pee, the door opened and there stood Glenn. He just kept standing there staring at her and she had to get up and go over to the door and shut it! When she came out he was contrite and she lectured him gently about that room being private and then he hugged her and she hugged him (in a completely motherly way) then he asked her for a lock of her hair which she reluctantly gave him (cut it with the scissors which were in the sewing basket on the ironing board---his mother, Helen, paid him to iron! So Helen returns and gives Betty a Kennedy pamphlet and a few episodes later Helen and Betty are grocery shopping and Betty calls out a hello to her and Helen ignores her. Then she goes ahead and says hello to Betty anyway and mentions she was trying to ignore her to which Betty shows astonishment. Helen tells her she can't understand how she could have given her son a lock of her hair (she ran across it in his "treasure box") because "hes only nine years old"(or whatever age) Betty resents Helen insinuating she's out of line and slaps Helen. That is the history of Helen and Betty's situation regarding Glenn. Probably missed some things or remembered them wrong. but that's the gist of it.
J.R. Ewing is one my all-time favorite characters! His shadiness made him all the more fun! Goody-goody characters are lame!
SC fan ... I remember that slap it was as Quick as Don punching Jimmy Barret. Those Drappers are quick handed, like the Dad groping his Daughter , Quick !!
Visan: I sympathize with Sheila, and I'm happy with how the black characters have made their presence in the show, but seriously, don't think for a second that Paul is earnestly interested in pursuing a complete relationship with Sheila. He's a windbag limousine liberal who's using that poor girl as a prop.
I personally think that Viola and Carla are more important and meaningful characters than little Sheila. I even find Hollis more intriguing than Sheila.
Meanwhile, you know full well in 2008 that a lot of people are still harbor racism. It's nutty to many, but you know that to a lot of people, white supremacy makes a lot of sense. Acceptable? No. But that is truly the way it is.
Also, I don't think a lot of viewers were expecting the characters of this show to gradually realize the limits of the charmingly sexist, homogenous bubble of the early '60s. All of the characters are being prepared to jump into a new era and I think a lot of viewers are just plain uncomfortable with what they know is coming.
I know this is far fetched because the show centers mostly around Don but...Who is Cooper asking in the office if they were leaving?" I know we see Roger having that talk with Duck(not pulling his wight in clients)...But Don & the "new horizon" in LA leaving behind Betty maybe thinking he should start a new like Freddy. Is this too left field?
I think that's what I so unlike about Shelia. She is so gullible to think Paul is that into her.
eric, sorry I got so long-winded explaining about the Glenn/Betty bit...others had explained it further up much more concisely. : - }
I guess the comparison between Betty's dad and McCain is unfair -- Bets's pop only has the one house after all, although he has a better grasp of reality than McCain, not to mention infinitely more spring in his step.
@oldfashioned: I caught that too, when Betty said "we were just pretending"; I thought she could easily have been referring to their entire marriage and not just for the trip.
@stephanie jo: Channing Chase is listed in the credits for "Flight 1" as "Dorothy Campbell" (Pete's mom)
People can like or dislike a character for whatever reasons. It's just that some folks, not necessarily on the AMC forum, are claiming they don't like Sheila and Paul for bogus reasons and I think it goes deeper than that. This has not one thing to do with this particular blog or posters. I don't make personal attacks! But on other Mad Men boards, there's a racial element to disliking the Paul/Sheila pairing. It's rather sad....
Eric - Why would you search for something happening to a tv character created in 2007? Are any of the other characters on the show fully named for a real life person? Just wondering.
Too much Betty in one episode for me left me *bored*
I liked how Joan was supposed to get a memo to Kinsey but she let him have it in front of the group.
Whats up with Mr Cooper - is he losing it too?
How bout Roger asking Don about the family emergency?
Don says it was memorable (sex) heh
several of you guys have mentioned a preview with Pete and Don saying something about a "vacation". Could you point me to it or was it after the episode?
Does anyone know if Don & pete are going to Pasadena, or Santa monica?
What's so wonderful about MM is that you do like or dislike characters!! I really don't like Pete, but I can't wait for more of Pete. I like Don, yet I hate Don. I like Betty, yet I hate Betty. Can't believe what Peggy had done, yet I still root for her to succeed. That's what's so great about MM. I've never felt so much pain, anger, happiness, and shock for tv characters before.
Welgolpol : i though perhaps since the products on the show are real. Then possible a character's name might be real too.
NEED HELP. In what episode did Betty slap Glen's mom at the supermarket? I thought I had seen all of last season's episodes and don't remember that scene.
For those that are discussing the Glen/Betty relationship: I was weirded out from last season's episode in which Betty held his hand as he was sitting in a car. She said something like "I don't have anyone to talk to." She also said something to the effect that she didn't care that she wasn't supposed to be talking to him.
I don't know where this relationship with Glen is heading or what exactly the writers are implying but it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
I do think Betty was molested by her father when she was a child. That line that he'll "take her out for a milkshake" made it appear as if they'd done this before: he gropes her and then he treats her to a milkshake.
Does anyone else think the actor that played Betty's dad was deliberately chosen because of his resemblance to McCain? In my opinion the resemblance is too striking to be a coincidence. They even had him dressed like McCain. On more than one occasion I've seen McCain tieless with a blue blazer and light blue shirt.
Betty is sexy as hell.
Don blew it cheating on her. Now she is showing him who is boss.
The Bishop kid is a creep, look for that storyline to take a darker turn in the future.
Next week's episode should be great.
One of the great things about this show is the way the characters interact with real world events of the 1960s. The way it time stamps each episode and transports us back to a supposed “simpler time.” So I wonder how many of you/us are still going to love this show when season four 1966-67 looks and feels nothing like seasons one and two?
The world is changing around these characters whether they like it or not. Therefore they must change as well. This nostalgic Camelot of the early 1960’s where all the ladies still wear white gloves, every man dons a Fedora and a “colored” person's only occupational opportunities are as a maid or bus boy are going away. And going away soon. Lest ye forget the drastic changes (with lightening speed) this decade has in store. It was really like three decades in one.
In less than five years we’re going to go from those adorable clean-cut lads from Liverpool that took our minds off the tragedy of JFK, to four long-haired mustachioed hippie genius’ that claimed to more popular than Jesus, and were blamed for everything from the popularity of LSD to the crumbling of western civilization. We'll go from the utter shame of having a baby out of wedlock to having no shame whatsoever making love in the streets of Haight-Ashbury. The country will go from JFK to Tricky Dick Nixon. From a little conflict called Vietnam to a big freakin’ problem called Vietnam. And by the end of the decade we will have gone from talking about going to the moon to actually walking on it. A lot happened REALLY quickly during the 1960s. So where does that leave the current 1962 world of Mad Men?
Many of these characters cannot remain, as we currently know them. The ones you now love, you may learn to hate and vice versa. New characters will be introduced, old ones will have to go. People actually did die in the civil rights era you know. (Sorry Kinsey.) What happens to a guy like Roger? He may be the first to lose everything. Do Don and Betty stay together or do they help remove the stigma from divorce? When does that baby not so conveniently show back up in Peggy’s life? Who becomes a hippy other than the two Draper kids? And just how exactly does Sterling-Cooper implode? I predict the show changes drastically and many of you won’t hang around for the ride.
The agency setting will always be central to the show but it’s obvious (at least to me) that the visual world of the show will expand and the current crop of characters attitudes, motivations, beliefs and morals are going to change with the times as well. They have to. The decade demands it.
I agree with SirDarby-I don't like Sheila - what's the big deal? She's needy & whiney so far. UGH.
I'm curious that Visan wants the action to get back to the office but makes a fuss over "doll" Sheila who is not working in the office. Why do you like Sheila so much?
Don is a good man. He is complex and multi-faceted. You can see it in so many ways. his compassion for Freddie, recognizing Peggy's abilities and promoting a mere secretary, a rare occurance in 1962. So unlike Roger, maybe Don will promote Joan. It's good to see the vulnerabilities in Don.
Don't forget he already threw Betty and the kids away twice now.... once with that ugly skank mistress #1 when he wanted to chuck it all and go to Paris. Then with the elegant Miss Menken when Pete discovered Dick Whitman.
Don has been a real a dog to his wife, but he is changing. I think deep down he loves Betty and that's as it should be.
Betty's character is interesting right now. She is getting stronger. She is getting curious about the mystery man she married. Everything that has happened is partly her fault and she knows it. She married a man she does not know. She's giving Don clues that he's just not getting. She wants to be romanced and she's patiently waiting to hear that declarative sentence "I Love You" and the actions that go with it. The grand gesture Roger spoke of....that Don loves her, maybe a kobe bryant piece of jewelry, is that too much? She wants to be swept off her feet. She does not want to go back to the status quo. She wants honesty. How did they get together in the first place? Can they go back there? He'll have to win her back and she realizes Don may not be capable of such a thing. She is slowly preparing herself to go on without him. I want them to stay together!!!!
This is only an observance, not political, but YES, that guy who plays Betty's dad TOTALLY looks like John McCain. And OUCH, did I feel bad for Betty when her dad felt her up! Totally losing it. Is that behavior from a stroke or is it Alzheimers?
And I felt sorry for Glenn. Not to get pervy, but its obvious that Betty and Glenn have a connection. And good for Betty for doing the right thing before she could be brought up on molestation charges. I think Glenn is there to highlight the absolute loneliness and desperation for attention she feels.
Well, I hope everything turns out okay for Kinsey.
Good Comment Welgolpol
It's a love-hate relationship wild ride with all these characters.
This show is amazing!
Donwant,
If I'm not mistaken Don met Betty through work. She was a model on a photo shot. I believe he snared her by giving her the fur coat she was modeling.
I believe his last ep. was great. The creepyness of the Glen/Betty scenes are just overshadowing what is really happening. Someone said it earlier and was right. Betts needs attention. She is emotionally still a child in many ways. When she calls her son a "little liar" or her daughter "fat" she is acting like a child. There are so many scenes when you can see she is just a little lost girl. So when you see her fathers dementia get the best of him and he grabs her it is not so unrealistic to think that she may have been molested as a child. Even that little girl voice she speaks with betrays someone who is emotionally stuck at an age when they were abused.
Many have mocked the actress for being a weak part, but there are many layers that have not been peeled away yet. Much like all of the characters in this show you cannot take them at face value.
By Mike Hoxton on October 6, 2008 1:22 AM
NEED HELP. In what episode did Betty slap Glen's mom at the supermarket?
Season # 1 / episode # 4 New Amsterdam
hasn't anyone noticed that Don is starting to appreciate women's intellect... first with "Joan holding down the fort" and with "[Peggy] should go to California instead" when he finds out the bozo boys haven't read her research on the Congressional pork angle... is this because he's no longer with Betty...? This classic sexism is fantastic. Head Secretary Joan has to "train" a male replacement as script reader who probably gets paid more and a better title and Peggy is called a copywriter when she's a researcher....and parked in the xerox room. This is how it was. And strangely, in many offices, today, it still is this way, but in new forms... Check out your office and see who is really doing all the work and gets a lesser title and paycheck.
I'm not sure about Bets having a history of sexual abuse but I don't think she is going to pursue some inappropriate relationship with Glenn. She is lonely and full of sadness, confusion and she is desperate for attention. Glenn, although very young, is a person she can relate too. Both feel misunderstood and unappreciated by their family/loved ones. Neither of them have an outlet or a person they can confide in who will really understand their feelings (Her shrink sits there and doesn't say anything). They both felt an instant connection, as their solace was clearly visible to each other. However, Bets calls Glenns mother and after they spoke she realizes that Glenn can't be the person to "rescue" her.
Bettie knows that by calling Glenns mother, she has broken Glenns trust and literally put Glenn back into his terribly unfortunate situation. He no longer has anyone who understands him anymore, and she understands too that when he says he hates her now, she knows its true. She betrayed him. I think Glenn will of course continue to play a roll here but bettie will not try to seduce him/or let her self be seduced by him.
I did also find it interesting that Bettie found the courage to talk to Glenns mom about how Don is not living at the house. She has kept this a secret from everyone, including her brother and closest friends. Glenns mom helps her to understand that she needs to find a way to be strong now, and that in reality she controls her life. Early in the conversation Bettie says that without Don their to hold her down, she feels like she might float away. After her discussion with Glenns mom, she seems much more grounded now and prepared for anything. Don on the other hand seems as if he is floating away without bettie, as he is essentially running away to california for at least a week. Don and Bettie seem to be reversing roles, with their confidence and calm.
Lucky Strike- You are right on about how the times changed so fast, but I think it would be a diservice if the show's characters evolved as quickly as the era they lived in. It would be too typical to have the office environment change every year to match the times. Remember, people didn't evolve that quickly. My mother worked in the airline industry in the early 70's, which was a pretty racey bunch of people. Even though they were fairly progressive and worldy through all of thier travels, they were still pretty backwards. It was still a man's world and all of management was men. Everyone slept around and drank a bunch and smoked. Even though the fashion and hairstyles were current the office politics were the same as Sterling-Cooper circa 61. I think the show would be even more fun if the characters evolved a little behind the times as most of us do in real life. I think the best example of that was from season one when you would see Don hanging out with his beatnik girlfriend and her bunch. That was what those times seemed like. One group trying to change things whil another was desperatley hanging onto the status quo.
Don's got that loyalty thing (except for Betty) going at least in the office. I think Don feels ill-served by Roger (for taking the heat from Mona for their breakup), and I almost think that their friendship has been damaged somehow for good.
I think Don may be ready to give up on Betty, and is going to Los Angeles on a scouting trip of his own to see what his prospects would be there in business.
The whole fiasco with Roger (and now Bert who really came across as senile after Harry's party) has prompted Don to start thinking of starting over, I think. Home's not good; work's not good; his one real "friend", Roger, has gone over the falls; Bert's lost it. So, why not?
I disagre with many of you regarding Betty...I see her as self-assured, poised, secure and decisive. She's confident in her roles as daughter, wife, mother and friend and though she seems a little frosty or removed at times, her ability to detach is probably the reason she is able , in my opinion, to handle each role as beautifully and effectively as she does. She refuses to be one of Don's "throw-aways", and so doesn't give a second thought to kicking him out, she is a true and honest friend and so has no problem standing up for herself in response to Glen's mother and her disgusting acusation in the supermarket. And, yes, Glen is more than a little creepy, but Betty, as usual knows the right thing to do and does it. I think she's terrific!
@Donwant: Sheila's character I want to learn more about. Why do you care that I'd like to see her character be fleshed out?
Paul's an obnoxious character. But even obnoxious Mad Men characters usually have a redeeming side. Maybe he went on that bus, spouting ad crap no-one gave a damn about. But he got on the bus! And I can name 3 real-life Civil Rights workers who did NOT get out alive signing up voters...James Chaney, Mickey Schwerner and Andrew Goldman!
I don't wish to confuse fact and fiction. And I'm not sure why anyone would assume a fake ad guy would be listed as a name on actual Civil Rights workers slain in the 1960s. Paul may be pretentious as hell but he showed a lot of guts, even though it was "forced" upon him. I'm sure if he didn't want to attend the bus ride, he could've come up with a lie. After all, he's in advertising!
Re: the relationship between Betty and Glenn: has anyone every seen the "Summer of 42" and "the Inkwell" ? While now soley about the matter of adolescent boys in sexual relationships with older women each movie as as a subtext this dynamic....so it's nothing new or particularly creepy....we tend to bring those post 80s sensibilities of child sexual abuse into these 60s and earlier situations...Glenn is not 9 anymore he is about 13 I would think and while it is obvious that he has a crush on Betty which may or may not have sexual dimensions ...it seem to me at least, that Betty is not attempting to seduce him but rather comfort him in his loneliness...
Trouble is Betty herself is quite adolecent and I don't think she is at all becoming more mature...she sleeps all morning and drinks for the remainder of the day while Carla takes care of the house and the children...her father's illness is more upsetting to her because he can no longer be "his little girl" than it is that he is suffering discomfort and pain....all she can relate to Viola is that "now she is an orphan" ...what absolute dribble!....I have to admit that last season I was a great defender of the Betty character; now however she get on my last one good nerve...such a waste of potential...she could try joining the PTA at Sally and Billy's school; and while Don is a dashing cad of guy she just gave up the opportunity to become the junior grande dame of New York City's social set with Don being officially accepted into the old boys network of charity benefits....it would have been her role as corporate wife to sit on all those charity committies and plan and execute galas etc.....I am surprised she didn't see this advantage to silently accepting Don's infidelity...she could have had herself a hot affair with some corporate titian.
just my 2 cents worth
.
I think Paul jumping on that bus (in fact everyone from the North jumping on a bus headed South) shows just how naive Northerners were about how truly violent racial tensions had become in the Southern states. Remember, none of that dog biting-water cannon stuff was on TV yet. Hearing about someone being shot is one thing. Seeing it or being shot at yourself is quite another. And just as it would with the Vietnam war, TV showed the world the difference between hearing about something horrible and seeing it for yourself.
Also, I’m not hating on Paul the way so many of you seem to be. What ever his reasons for being with Sheila, at least he’s not embarrassed to be seen with her or claim/present her as his woman. Paul also has the balls to risk his life and get his lily white behind on that bus to fight the rights of others. And giving a damn about someone else is not an action I see very many other characters on this show participating in. So nevermind why he is with Sheila or how he ended up on the trip. He’s doing both of his own free will, and at that time, probably risking a lot doing so.
BTW Visan, the name was Andrew Goodman. Not Goldman.
He dropped dead of a heart attack in his 40's while jogging. Her dad had a stroke and that is also what Grace Kelly herself died from.
tangfl: Grace Kelly died in an auto accident in 1982. Just an fyi.
Hi fellow Maddicts! Whew!! I couldn't read each post in this section completely, so please excuse me if I repeat.
I am pretty sure Don had a dream about Betts having sex with him.
The scene where she is taking the bed apart showed a close up of that chenille bedspread that was on the bed.
During his "dream" he sees her removing the bedspread and covering them in it. Then he wakes up in the am, and the camera shows the same bedspread tucked in very neatly, the way it was when she went to bed. Her side of the bed hardly looks slept in.
That's how I decided it was a dream.
Yes, after the first episode with Glen and Betty, I kept saying something is wrong with that relationship. Remember the "bathroom scene"?
I still can't figure it out...I do remember Glen telling her she "looked like a princess" in that episode. And last night he tells her he "is there to rescue her". Like he is her Prince Charming. And the hand holding??? Thank God Carla and the kids showed up...too weird!
It is not unusual for some people who have strokes to develop dementia, like Betty's father. I think he really thought she was his deceased wife at times.
But, who knows, maybe there is "a dirty little secret" there?
What the hell was Paul doing spouting off "ad speak" on the bus on the way to D.C. with Shelia?
I think it was his feeble attempt to "fit in". Saying something stupid like "advertsing has no color boundaries"? Oh brother...
I do hope the MM writers focus on the D.C. rally, it was a huge historical event. And really brought the Civil Rights movement into main stream America.
The adoption issue with Pete's mother is interesting. IF Peggy did have his child, and he finds out, that will be the way he can have a child, and his family inheritance, whatever is left.
I found it interesting in the scene where Pete, his brother, and their mother were signing the legal
papers, that she made a comment to Pete about not getting his part of the inheritance if he adopts a child. In other words, he will be breaking the "blood line".
OK...off to more threads!
I think there were alot of clues that not only was Don's history bad but so was Bettys. When Betty says to Violet.."He doesn't know who I am," and Violet responds, "He's a very sick Man." Betty is relieved and responds she's glad other people realize that. I think she was referring to Don as well as her father.
There's a vibe Betty may have been sexually abused and she definatley has Princess isues. Her father yells that Don married a Princess and Glen admits he's come to rescue her.
I think in the end it may be Betty who tries to rescue Don. I think maybe Betty sees a young Don in Glen and because she's been supressed and is rather childish, she's helping him in a way that may seem inappropriate but ultimately is loving (in a non-sexual way).
I think Don and Betty definatly had sex, not a dream sequence, although it probably had a dream like quality to Don when he woke and she wasn't there.
I hope Betty is finding her sexuality and throwing away all her chidish ideals of rescue (like the nic-nacs her step-mother was giving away) Through loss of her inheritance, maybe she's lost her ignorance...When was "The Feminine Mystique" published? She could use a copy.
@Lucky Strike: Thanks for the correction of the last name.
I hope that my misspelling of Mr. Goodman's name hasn't taken away from the point I tried making that no matter what Paul's intentions, he and Sheila (and others) faced a real danger in going to register voters.
I think that helen bishop is creepy her eyes freak me out
Hi Visan! Is that where they were going, to register voters? I was hoping it was D.C. I'll watch again, I missed that dialogue.
Hi cad men! Maybe Helen is a Stepford divorced wife?! Or, maybe her eyes are creepy from all of that "walking no where"!!
Lucky Strike and Visan: both your points are very well taken I believe that Paul even discussing going South to register voters is an incredible testimony to their relationship and I am someone who was active in the second wave of the contemporary civil/human rights movement - I know first hand what is is like to be in a small town with the Klan meeting up the road and the lights and phone going out at the same time just as their big klavern meeting is beginning; I know what it feels like to have mace in your eyes and try finding your way home through police on horseback "controlling the crowds" during a march. Paul may have opted to go on the march on a "humbug" as a alternative to not going to California and he is certainly doing the "arrogant white boy" thing with his conversation on the bus...but he is about to find out what the real deal is....and he in his own way is trying to venture out of his "zone of comfort" with this relationship with Sheila...and I do like the character of Sheila..who is perhaps the most unabashedly self actualized woman on this show since Midge...she is intelligent, articulate, and seemingly well educated and in all probability a child of the black middle class as she is a resident of Montclair, NJ during the 50s and 60s and it's my understanding that during that period Montclair was a middle class suburb of New York City.....I that that facial language that passed between she and Hollis when Paul told Hollis to call him by his first name as though he had ever even acknowledged Hollis' existense before that time...Sheila rolled her eyes as if to say "Negro Pleeze!"
Visan, point taken on Paul -- I agree, he gets on the bus; and he isn't just like Harry saying people should just 'watch more TV' and not think about racial strife. I actually really like Paul's character despite his occasional buffoonery (he's always late for meetings, so he's a kindred spirit to me), and I think his affections for Sheila are genuine. There is an element of his relationship with her that's driven by trying to be hip, but his heart's in the right place. I also don't see the dislike for Sheila; I think she's very sweet and handled pretty ugly comments with Joan with grace.
Regarding the dream notions, there were several times I thought people were having dreams, including the tryst in Princess Birdie's room. But to me it all appeared to be real.
Lastly, it hurt seeing Don get kicked out that last time. He didn't walk out with the strut that greytone has pointed out that last time.
@Fashioned: I think some of the Sheila hate comes from some people's discomfort with watching a white man fall for a black woman. So many posters think Sheila's a pretty woman and intelligent. But let's be real, there are some wacky folks watching Mad Men, who take umbrage with a black lady presented as an object of admiration and beauty.
As to the floor sex, I think Don was trying to screw his way back into the home he paid for! Don's not above using his sexuality to get things done! But SAB just might have cut off her nose to spite her face with this final dismissal. Don's a survivor! And if that means he has to fly to L.A. to get away from his wife's bullshit, he'll do it. Frankly, I'm hoping Don taps some California Girl ass and smokes some California grass! The man deserves some fun!
Did anyone notice Peggy's mention of "my nephews"? I think that is confirmation that the baby seen in earlier episodes is her sister's and that hers was put up for adoption.
Stigmas regarding adoption in the 60's? You better believe it! As one of those "discards" that was pulled in January 1962 from Catholic Charities, I know what I'm talking about. And it hasn't changed all that much, Angelina notwithstanding. I actually had a coworker express surprise that I had kept in touch with my brother because we weren't natural brother and sister! Actually, though, I'm kind of glad the show expresesed some negative views of adoption. Everyone thinks it's so wonderful, and aspects of it are, but there is definitey a dark side to the whole thing, and that needs to be expressed and examined too.
In fact, one of the things that compells me to watch MM is the depiction of life in the early 1960s and seeing a recreation of the world my birthmother lived in.
As a few people here pointed out - the closing song when Don and Pete are on the plane was Telstar. I clapped when I heard it as it was so appropriate.
Telstar was the name of the satellite made by Bell Labs in NJ. It was one of the first telecommunications satellites used to transmit telephone and other high speed data. It went up in 1962. The problem it had was that it didn't have a geosynchronous orbit. It didn't orbit at the same speed as the earth's rotation. It was only over the US for about 20 min at a time and that was the only time it could be used.
The next year the Hughes corporation out there in LA where Don and Pete were headed would make another satellite called Syncom. It had a geosynchronous orbit so it orbited so it stayed over the US the whole time and was more useful.
To me the use of the song meant a new age both for aerospace out west and for Don. It was very cool indeed.
What are the dark sides you would be interested in having the characters explore, bestfriends?
I thought Betty intiated sex with Don on the floor. I must have been watching a different show.
She was using her sexuality, not the other way around. A power play that may have confused him. He seemed to warmly kiss her in the morning but she rebuffed him...as she did at the house when they returned .Open your mind to the nuances the writers are presenting. Your unabashed hatred of Betty seriously clouds your posts.
@Smp65: You got the wrong poster today! The calm, cool Visan is not present at the moment! You don't tell me what I saw or how to interpret a scene! Stop being a damn "stan" for Betty!
Does anybody know what that music is in the last scene when Don and Pete are on the plane?
George: Telstar by the Tornadoes.
So we're about 300 posts in and already we have people wanting to ask what happened to Peggy's baby, and still identifying the Telstar song. Please read the posts, BEFORE you post to avoid repetition and redundance. And as for Peggy's baby, NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE. Can we please just wait and see what the writers have in store for us?
I might have to move over to Greg's site after all...
i thought they did indeed have sex on the floor, even though at first i thought it was a dream. don went to sleep with a t-shirt on, and when he woke up the next morning, it was off, so that's what leads me to believe it really did happen, and would explain why he was so befuddled at the end when betty asked him to leave again -- he probably thought that her initiating sex meant things were better.
So sorry, I'm already there.
What a rich, deep episode! One of the things I love about this show is that it’s a treasure trove of deep meanings and themes, like classic literature. I don’t mean soap opera tricks, like “is Betty going to molest Glenn?” or “Is Joan pregnant?”, but things like Betty’s gradual coming into adult responsibility.
I think her coming to Don in the night in her old bedroom is part of her ambivalence about growing up…and how many of us still feel like kids when we visit our old family homes? But she also knew that one night of reconciliation and closeness wouldn’t make Don any different. He’s still the closed-off person, the forever unavailable (emotionally, that is) male.
I’m so glad that Glenn reappeared in this episode; last season I was left wondering about what he and Betty’s odd connection was all about. Now I see that it’s part of Betty’s coming-into-adulthood story…she’s no longer the person that she was, attracted to that odd little lost boy (because she felt lost). Now she does the adult thing, calling Glenn’s mom, although in the beginning you can see that she still wants to be in that protected little world with him—her the fairy princess helping the wayward lost boy. And I think she’s out of her depression now—and she’ll start acting more responsibily herself with her own children.
And her telling Don to leave again is part of that journey to responsibility…while Don retreats again, this time to California.
Mad Men Suze, yes Grace Kelly did die in an auto accident in Monaco, but medical records showed she had suffered a stroke right before the accident. Remember the controversy surrounding who was driving the car at the time because the car was speeding? Stephanie (her daughter) said she was driving, but some think Grace was driving.
Many thanks, MadMenSuze.
Visan: Black and white dating... and marriage is the ONLY thing that will finally erase the race question from forms of the future. Eventually if black and white and hispanic and middle-eastern mix it up, think of what beautiful dhildren. That would finally bring the end of racism as we know it. If there is no definite race, how can there be racism?
VestFriendsGirl: Me too! I was born in 1956 and adopted out via Catholic Social Services to a childless couple that eventually had 4 more of their own. I was never introduced as their "adopted daughter" ever. Adoption was very common back then and it was not a stigma at all.
Having read a post here that said Glenn is played by Matt Weiner's son, I now understand that entire story lline with Glenn and Betty. There are no juicy acting parts for kids in this show and (considering Matt's son is a pretty good llittle actor), they decided to create a good part for him. Betty got drawn into it because, as Glenn told her when he asked for a lock of her hair, "you look like a princess." Just another reference to my Betty becoming Grace Kelly theory (see above). I really don't think this story line is going to get any creepier. I think Glenn is a lonely boy who doesn't feel he has any parents. His mom is running around withi men and not paying any attention to him, his dad is married to a mean woman. He's lonely and has a crush on Betty. The writers have made sure that Betty has done nothing really innappropriate with Glenn. This episode had Betty and Glenn's mom talking about being good mothers and having to "take charge" because neither has a husband anymore. I think Betty is maturing into her own woman, which leaves no room for her to do anything "creepy" with a child. But Glenn will continue the crush because he's Matt's kid.
If you watch the "Inside Mad Men: The Inheritance" video it suggests pretty strongly that the Betty/Don floor romp was not a dream.
Laurie B. what is Greg's site?
Whatever that means, you're schizophrenic?
It's just a show, a well written show, but a show.
Sometimes preconceived notions or one's personal bigotry can cloud judgement and make for irrational posts. Don't let this forum 'jump the shark' , because of your hatred for a fitionalized character.
Perhaps Betty's character slept with Don to get pregnant...who knows, but I don't think the writers penned that as a personal affront to you, Visan I and Visan II
I don't think adoption was necessarily frowned upon in the 60s, but I do think that the upper crust felt (in general) about it the way Pete and his mother do. Pete's name is extremely important to him---he is from a famous old NY family. "Breeding" is important to these people. Adoption would mean bringing in lower-class blood (most probably) into the family (they didn't think about it in terms of "genes" in those days, but as "blood).
Frankly, I am ashamed of Betty. She needs to begin appreciating how fortunate she is. Usually, when guys are going outside the home for sex, it means that they are not getting it from their wife.
@Smp65: I try to stay on a level of no personal attacks. But you want to take it there, for some bizarre reason! Since you are so into deciphering my posts, you'll know that I never confuse the character with the actor. Nor would I take a storyline as a "personal affront!" Your being such a "stan" for a fake character is unhealthy. And despite your rudeness, I truly hope you have a
good life!
-Visan
I haven't read all the posts on here (yet) but did anyone else crack up when Glen asked if he could use the bathroom? I swore Betty was going to ask if she could watch - but instead she said "wash" (his clothes for him). That scene between them was incredible and revealed a TON about Betty. More deep enlightenment from me later.
Regarding next week, those of us who experienced the 60s in SoCal are hoping Don stops by the Troubador while he's out in LA....
Wouldn't it be funny if my real name was stan? Anyway, I don't know what that means, never knew what SAB meant and I wouldn't go so far as to say I decipher your posts as you make your views and feelings extremely apparant...it doesn't take much to figure them out.
I feared that instead of discussing the show, some posters would just shout out anything for shock value or try bait others.
It's a shame because this is a cleverly written show and it would be nice to stay on topic.
Every bulletin board has its trolls indeed.
Just try and develop a thicker skin and try and ignore the snotty posts. (Easier said than done I'll admit.)
George,
Check out my post re Telestar- it's appear a bit before your question.
Eric (and anyone else):
Greg's blogspot is:
www.madmenblog.blogspot.com
Ok, Betty is just being nice to the little boy. Glenn is a little upset and lost , just perhaps as betty was when she was his age. We don't know at what age Betty Mom passed away. Her Mothers death is KEY to her mental developement.
Don and Betty had Sex. This was not a dream. Sex, Slow moving , keep quiet grinding. Betty was on top, Betty is Dominate. And we're at the in-laws so keep quiet and lets Go.
Betty is using Don as he has used her.
Her Dad had a stroke, she calls Don.
Don returns her Home and attempts to take a shower. She says Get out, you're Not staying here.
She's controlling the interaction.
Peggy's infant Son was adopted or awarded to her Aunt or perhaps her cousin/ Sister.
Get ready for Peggy the copy writer pulling sexual strings in the office. Also Salvatore's fondness to Ken comes back into play. Being that Draper and Cambell are away to Cali , time for office heat.
Betty getting the scoop from her female riding friends date with the dork from the riding stable.
Certainly Paul the freedom rider will have some action in the Civil rights.
Thanks Laurie B. I'll check it out.
Did anyone else notice the cups they were drinking from at the baby shower? Were they paper cups with some kind of holder? Check out the photos from this episode... those cups are interesting.
Eric, I thought Betty's mom died in Season 1 or just before.
Jack Carlson wrote: Frankly, I am ashamed of Betty. She needs to begin appreciating how fortunate she is. Usually, when guys are going outside the home for sex, it means that they are not getting it from their wife.
Me now: OH BROTHER!!! Have you watched this show? It's Betty that wants sex all the time with Don. Check out season 1. It's Don that's having a little problem keeping the mast erect, unless he's with other women.
Men cheating USUALLY has nothing to do with what they're getting at home. Men who cheat most likely do so because they have monogamy issues. Like Roger said, "Marriage - it's not natural..."
Not sure when Betty's Mother died.
I thought the cups were interesting also. some type of design but not sure what it was on the Cups ??
This episode helps give a deeper understanding of Betty.
First, we see that Betty was clearly raised by the maid, not her mother. So it shouldn't be a suprise that she relies so much on her household help to raise her children. Second, there was the line about her father "fining" them if they engaged in small talk. Also, there have been previous references to how important appearance were in her home growing up.
Her father clearly expected her to act like a proper perfect princess and because she was a compliant daughter, rewarded her with adoration. Her mother expected physical perfection but love came from the maid.
Betty was clearly upset that her father had deteriorated so much to the point of not knowing who she was half the time. The sexaul groping was less the issue than his not knowing it was his own daughter. She had lost perfect wife status and now she no longer had perfect daughter status.
As for the sex with Don, I think she had sex with him as a source of comfort, to lose herself from the situation and to feel good briefly. In the light of day back in her own house, she was, as the maid said, able to remember her father and past as being perfect again but could not pretend that her homelife and things with Don were perfect.
Before she had a name and a specific image for one of his mistresses(aka Bobbie), it was easier for her to pretend, but no longer.
That sex romp with Betty and Don was not a dream. I kind of liked how Betty got on top, and was in control, while Don tenderly kissed her and caressed her, something which she might have done if Don was on top. Plus I like the morning after we see Don was satisfied and maybe wanted to go another round, but Betty is already down stairs. When she rebuffs his morning kiss, and when they go home and she tells him, No nothing has changed, we were just pretending, I think that was a message to Don as to look "Me, I am just like you." But also when Don says he wants to stay and take care of her Betty, rebuffs him again. I think Betty doesnt want to be a Parent to a grown man (Don) she wants to be his wife, a partner who confides in him, has sex with him, and overall honesty with him. She also doesnt want to be a Parent to a child (Glen) who has a crush on her, and wants to rescue her, and take care of her like Don said when they returned home. I think Betty is finally growing up and realizing what Viola said, she has to take care of her kids and husband, just like they need to take care of her. I think she will be a more involved Parent with the children, and of course have another breakthrough. I do think that she might have gotten pregnant, and that to me will be a new begining not only for her, but for Don also. You can tell her still loves her, even when she rebuffs him. I think the thing she wants out of him is honesty, and he still wont give it to her. I think Betty is passed the point of caring about any other affairs, she just wants the truth so they can start over.
In the first episode of Season One, Betty mentions that her mother died "3 months ago".
Betty's mother passed away three months before she started visiting the pschiatrist in season 1. She even commented to Don in the last episode that he shouldn't stick around for her now (due to her dad's stroke) because she knows how he feels about mourning/grieving. In the first season, Don had chided Betty for missing her recently deceased Mother and commented her mourning was self indulgent or self pitying.
Betty is very conflicted, trying ot get hold of herself, doesn't know where she is - still loves Don but is so mad at him for being untrue - now it was her turn to "pretend" - like maybe Don had to pretend with her if he was out being a ho (but we all know Don wants a good family life (but really looooves Rachel) and is conflicted himself.
she might have gotten pregnant, and that to me will be a new begining .
Oh , i slipped on this idea and i think its a great idea. Betty has never mentioned birth control , it was on the market but very new. If Betty is Prego then we have the standard issue situation that millions of couples faced during the 60's the third child and lets stay together. I was a third the accident my parents stayed together , My Dad ran around on my mother. When i was older i heard about my Dad and my friends mothers, un wanted advances and all that crap.
The worst thing about the idea of somebody taking a shot at Paul in Mississippi is that Pete is in California and can't get in the way of the bullets. Were there any big civil rights events in New York back then that the writers could send them both to? Could they also make sure the shooters have lots of ammo?
Pete's a twhipp ! The best thing about Pete is his wife , quite the bombshell.
eric, I agree about Pete's wife. Love her night clothes!! Hubba hubba
Well Don gets a chance to see if LA is really what he wanted if he came with Rachel. In full honesty, If he did come with Rachel, he would bang almost every woman there is there, leaving poor Rachel behind. This whole shit of Don truly loves Rachel needs to stop. Don is a whore, he loves himself! Visan will even agree with me that if Don did come with Rachel to LA, he would have cheated on her so fast, he would have sent her packing. I think he is going to whore it up in LA, but something will still be missing with him. I think tonight we saw that he truly does love Betty, and now is feeling the hurt and unwantedness he inflicted on her so many years.
I feel soooo popular today! So many posts just reference me for some reason! LOL!
We have our parents and the 60's sexual antics in the work place to be thankful for all the office rules today , not to mention the sexual harassment rules.
Today , people can blow the littlest comment into a major HR issue.
My attraction t the show is the absurd office talk and how women are treated as object.
I love watching Joan attempt to control all the gals dress, so she can wear the power in your bra with her breasts resting on her collar bones.
I really enjoyed this week’s scene with Pete's family. It was so tense and WASPy, I didn't realize I was holding my breath until the scene was over. Excellent acting on VK's part!
I guess none of us have jobs , that we can blog about a tv show all day on a monday. Just goes to show you the full body of the madman, its a great show. I have never followed anything like this show , except UFC that is.
Okay,
I think tho Paul ending up on that bus with Sheila was almost an accident, his life will be completely changed. Sheila may love him more for his newly found activism.
I love odd, so I loved the scene with Betty and Glen on the sofa. I think it just shows how deep Betty is in her immaturity.
Glen did look like a mini Draper. He told Betty he would take her away, he had money. Sounded like Don to Rachael.
Betty is growing up. Now she needs to Mom Up.
Don's adventure in CA will be interesting. The Draper Door is open, he may walk thru.
Pete's family is creepy. Pete now believes adopting a child might be a plus. It put that idea in his head.
What's with Joan and Don?
Visan your vitriol is over the top and not really appreciated from this corner. Mad Men is not Dirty Sexy Money. These characters are actually three dimensions. Even the vilest characters have a redeeming quality or two and everyone has a backstory. Also, in 1962 no one would have thought anything of Betty in a house alone with Glenn.
Hi everyone -
- I believe Don and Betty had sex - no dream...
- Pampers are a client of SC - earlier in this season...
- Offices were like that, I believe up to the 80's - parties and booze in the afternoon happened (well, at my offices, anyway)
- Betty and Glen - I agree they are soulmates - remember last season when Don said that living with Betty was like living with a child? This WHOLE eppy was about that - going home, being called Princess, sulking when the stuff at the house went to her brother, the crying on her "maid's" shoulder, saying she was an orphan...
when she was with Glen - she not only eats, but eats like a kid with a huge bite, the scene on the sofa was sooo like two kids on an afternoon play day. Notice when Sally and Bobby arrived, Glen withdrew and when he was watching TV with Sally, he was on the sofa and she was on the floor? Glen is somewhere between adult and child and so is Betty - that's where their two paths cross. LOVE that Glen and his mom are back! Notice how Betty scolds her to take care of her child, much like Betty's maid scolded Betty to do?
- Watch Joan again in this episode - she is very broken up about Roger (kinda surprised)...in the party scene, Kinsey mentioned the Tiffany box from Jane AND probably Roger? Then when Roger comes in at the end, she barely looks at him...hee. I knew when Don told her to do the Memo to Kinsey, she would tell him in person, but in front of everyone was tooo yummy!
Okay, I think I am done, for now at least ;-)
I think a game should be created so that each time some poster comes out of nowhere and types "Visan," take a shot of tequila! Ha!
OK , TeQuila all around , Shots for EveryOne !!
Betty is winning Don back, slowly, and is literally on top now, being random and unrepdictable and ruthless and in control of her world... all the things Don likes... now he just has to process it as HIS WIFE, Betty as something he wants and doesn't just HAVE... her father said, "my little angel"... Betty is becoming Bad Betty and it might get Don Back on very new terms... in L.A. - the land of endless sun and fun and temptation - will Don make his final decision, or settle upon a decision that will include "the new Betty"??? Or will it just be Don giving in for the sake of superficial harmony so he can live the rest of his life (for the rest of his life) feed up within a compromised new normal?
Clean lines of right and wrong, and expectation leading to fulfillment and how things are vs. how they were DON'T happen in Mad Men...
Will Betty get preggo and then have an abortion? I think that might be coming...
Is Duck, in the soup? Duck Soup? I hope so... don't get much out of Quacky Phillips... Notice how he speaks in quick, quack, staccato-ish bursts... quack, quack, quack... :))
Now Don gets to go to LA and look for himself there... of course, like the entire decade of the 60s, the flight toward expanded self-awareness and knowing, is endless and if you are looking for a resolution it feels like an illusion because there is no final destination, no where to go to find it, it is either developing within yourself or it isn't and the sign posts Don is looking for in poetry and french movies and dangerous sex are vacuous if they do not touch you, move you, alter you... poor Don... he's made it to the corporate top of the mountain and is lost...
P
I heard the Joan and Roger comment .... was sure about it though.
At this point in the timeline, Betty's mom has been dead about 2 years now. In the first season she had died "a coupla months ago", according to the session with the therapist.
So we're about 300 posts in and already we have people wanting to ask what happened to Peggy's baby, and still identifying the Telstar song. Please read the posts, BEFORE you post to avoid repetition and redundance. And as for Peggy's baby, NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE. Can we please just wait and see what the writers have in store for us?
Laurie B. :
Yes we are really into posting for episode ten.... That's what this all about. Commenting on Episode Ten...whatever is there. I, for one, am not going to read every single post.... I scroll to the bottom and read what I want to... The people on this blog are generally nice and patient. You are a very impatient woman. You often make comments about what you consider "boring'. Who are you to judge?
The East of NewYork and the West Coast of Cali were completely different.
East coast was work hard get a good job.
West coast was freedom , experience everything and mouch off your parents. We're 3-5years away from free- Love in California. however from the episdoe guide Don set to meet some interesting folks.
Ok, everyone take a shot of Tequila. Posting control is taking control No Blogging allowed.
Surprisingly I agree with Visan and Polignac on how Betty is going to end up pregnant. Then they'll have that typical situation of, now we have to stay together for the children sake, which is going to further Betty's depression because she'll feel stuck, in a rut. And just when she started to feel liberated, or in control.
I also think that at some point Peggy's sister is going to bring in *pete jr.* and say I can't watch him he's your responsibility and Pete will see him and notice, * hey, that kid looks an awful like me.*
I don't remember which of you stated that Paul was just trying to appear cool or trying to appear like he's ahead of the times, but I agree. I totally think that he is just trying to do this because he thinks it makes him look interesting. He's just trying to prove something by making sure the black man in the elevator knows he hip. Fake, Fake, Fake.
I don't get the storyline of Betty with Glen. To me it seemed a waste of storyline. And I'm a Betty fan!!
Marilyn 1966, I get the feeling Trudy wants an infant...Peggy & Pete's boy is a toddler now going on three isn't he?
I finally agree with something Visan says!! Views on Kinsey are right on. Your still way off on Betty
Tequila shot
Joan is the consummate professional at her job. It was out of character for her to approach Paul at the party. She would have enjoyed it just as much if she had broken the news privately. Joan is a class act so I think the writers blew it.
Double shot of Tequila!
:-P
RE: Glen, from a psychological standpoint, I think Glen is in need of some counseling...perhaps he is acting out behavior he observes between his mother and her boyfriends, i.e. the sexual attention his mother's boyfriends give her and in turn she responds to while ignoring him. When they were setting on the sofa watching cartoons I thought for sure he was going to start rubbing her leg or something. Also, he looks alot older than 9 years old (as kids often do today). Just like a little girl would observe a mother give a man (her father or not) physical attention and he responsds to it, so it would go to reason in a little boys mind that this is a way to get attention from lady whom is not his mother, however, that is the whole purpose of it is that he just wants to be noticed and loved. Does that make since?
SONGBIRD & SMP65
I too am on your side about VISAN and she knows how I feel. We have had several run ins about Betty. Everyone else would probably agree that Betty is the one that initiated the floor sex because Don was asleep! SHE got on top of him which woke him up. And to say that *Don is not above his sexuality to get back into his house* is ridiculous because, lets be honest, Don is not above having sex, PERIOD ! Betty did that, I believe, because she was going through something stressful and she needed the release, closeness, tenderness that comes with sex.
Visan: I don't know what got into you to make rude nasty comments today ( that you say you never do.) smp65 didn't make any assumptions or interpretation on what you saw. You clearly said that Betty didn't initiate sex, that Don is the one who was using sex for personal gain. How is that someone reading into or interpreting what you saw? Matter of fact, smp65 didn't even address you, so you just feel the need to snap back at someone else point of view, and that was what she was doing. And by the way *cool* and Visan don't even go in the same sentence. Don't say you don't make comments about others when you've given them one of your silly little nicknames, what does *stan* mean?
wink, wink, have a good life!
(but don't think I won't call you on what you say)
I think Joan was feeling pretty "testy" about the Tiffany's gift from Jane and Roger to Paul at the baby shower. Joan always seems to use Paul as a convenient dumping ground when she's feeling bad. Nothing wrong with that. She'd just come out of that meeting with Don-Joan-Roger. Paul's a great vent for Joan, and so easy!
where's my favorite poster Nora? she hasn't left us, has she?
"By oldfashioned Eric, re: Joan and Paul. They had a one-night stand, which he apparently blabbed about. Joan was rude to Sheila at his party, then mocked Kinsey for what she saw as the motives for his interest in Sheila. Kinsey responded by going into Joan's locker, photocopying her license and posting in with her date of birth (1931, making her 31) circled. This is an escalating little war, which Kinsey will probably lose."
Thanks OF - love this fued they have!
AS far as Betty and abuse - I don't think she was actually molested, but I am sure there have been some scary remarks and actions towards her - enough for her to understand that her beauty has gotten her pretty much everything...
hiphugher, i think that makes good sense! they both just want to be noticed.
Another shot of Tequila!
I'm getting lightheaded... shouldn't have had all those oysters at lunch...
notice *she* can't respond
I thought of a nickname, *bison*
merriam-webster has the perfect definition: any of several large shaggy-maned usually gregarious recent or extinct bovine mammals (genus Bison) having a large head with short horns and heavy forequarters surmounted by a large fleshy hump
Hey Eric: Make sure the elevators are working!
I don't remember Paul and Joan , being together.
I do remember Joan's age being put up in the breakroom, but didn't know who did it.
Hey gobarack,
you said, "I predict Kinsey will get his ass kicked at that march"
Well, after he said "no one's been shot, lately" to Sheila, I immediately thought - that he, Kinsey, was going to get shot! (or Sheila).
@Eric: Joan said something to Peggy about mistakes she (Joan) made and looked in Paul's direction during the pilot episode! So they had a fling sometime in the past.
NMKay: I agree this is for posting about Episode 10. And I did not say anybody's posts are boring. I just said some are repetitive and redundant, and it's because people like you who don't read first to see what's already been asked and answered, which clogs up the thread even more. Yes, I am getting impatient. But go ahead, type away.... you don't care how slow and sluggish this site gets.
Geez, me and Visan are getting our asses handed to us today.
Another shot of tequila!
@Laurie B: We in this shit together, especially since we've been kicking asses on AMC since last season...with long-gone Dennis!
Oh, another shot of Tequila!
Hi there;
OK, here's my thougts (I am a former lurker and a HUGE fan) as a child of that era. My dad was don draper. I even made him a door stop to his office with a felt "martini" on one side and golf on the other. He divorced my mom and married his sexy secretary who wore "Wicked Wahini" perfume and had a red polked dotted comforter on a (gasp) double bed.
Betty's dad mention something about building him a house in theri back yard and then Betty finds Glenn (a mini-Don) out there and consoles him, even giving him a shirt of Don's. Interesting.
I had a grandparent that had had strokes and dementia and made inapproprite seual comments.
Pete is maybe not the bio kid of his parents???
Don has given up and is going to LA to cut loose and Pete is going to severly blow it. Yea! He is too smarmy. Somehow it will all come out about Peggys and Petes baby...for sure.
And Mona will have Rodgers baby.
The head guy is a hoot and was the lead in "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" how ironic!
Random thoughts here so forgive the ramble.
Don and Betty still care for each other. Betty calls Don for support when she finds out that her father had a stroke. Don is genuinely concerned and is supportive when they are together. He did not have to accompany her for the trip- Judy (sister in law) arrived much later and Don could have plausibly claimed that his job would keep him in NY. A quick train trip down and back would have been sufficient for appearances. When she called him, his immediate reaction was to go home and comfort her. I think Betty did initiate sex with Don, this wasn't a dream. He went to sleep in his shorts and t shirt, when he woke up, he was shown without his t shirt and the cover was as if he woke up without his shorts on. The bed looked barely slept in- logical since Betty moved to Don early in the evening. This scene was significant for many reasons. Betty still cares for Don and he for her- his response wasn't perfunctory, it was genuine and tender. She also initiated sex and then withdrew from him after he dropped her off at their house. Betty is beginning to separate sex from marriage and this is a crucial step for her to become comfortable as a (semi) liberated divorced woman.
The other side of Betty's potential liberation is for her to become aware of what her life would be as a divorced single mother. Through Glenn and then Helen's admission, Betty sees the emotional damage that would be inflicted on her children. While Betty at times does resent her children, she still sees herself as a wife and mother- a view reinforced by the maid she grew up with in her father's house. The scene with Helen felt forced and given what has transpired between them, they were remarkably civil to each other. It would have been justified if Helen had come in and started to immediately argue with Betty. Instead they both went to the kitchen table, lit cigarettes and started to talk, and when Betty opened up they realized they had something strong in common.
Betty and Glenn's interaction is creepy (no other way to put it). Glenn is now 11 or 12 and judging by his physical appearance, may be on the cusp of puberty. If he and Betty continue to have more than minimal interaction, his thoughts may become increasingly sexual which could lead to some emotionally charged scenes. For her part, I think Betty enjoys Glenn's company because he unquestionably adores her. Glenn represents a man in her life that still views her as an untainted Princess. But she is also aware of the potential consequences of Glenn's attention. She does the right thing by calming him down and then calling his mother.
Another post mentioned possible latent homosexuality- I can see Glenn coming out of the closet later in the decade. In the meantime, Betty will continue to be a fantasy to him, and this will continue as a subplot.
Revenge is a dish best served cold, and Joan likes hers directly from the freezer. She was visibly happy when she informed Ken that he would not be going to Ca and needed to turn in his tickets immediately. She and Don have some chemistry, but I don't yet know if it is mutual respect or sexual/emotional. Don clearly trusts Joan and she clearly likes working for him. Don has already demonstrated a willingness to recognize a women's potential in a professional environment- perhaps he will help Joan in some way ?
Paul Kinsey is a poseur and a condescending one at that. He's a Limousine Liberal at best. I feel sorry for Sheila because she does not see that she is being used by Paul as a prop for his proto-boho lifestyle. I hope she finds out soon, because she is a nice girl. Hopefully Paul's trip south will cause both to reconsider their relationship. Paul's removal from the Ca trip was telegraphed at the beginning of the Ep. when Don pointedly tells Paul not to talk during any of the Ca meetings. Why would he do this unless he already questioned the value of Paul's participation ?
Why was Peter chosen to go to Ca ? Is his family background viewed as opening doors with Senators and Congressmen ? Given the high profile nature of the trip, why was it initially entrusted to Pete and Paul (Peter and Paul- 2 of Jesus' disciples, but in this context who are they disciples of ?) . Peter and his brother seem to get along, but Peter and his mother (and previously his father) had a strained relationship at best. He clearly relished tearing away the curtain from his mother's financial situation and may have embraced the concept of adoption on the spot as a symbol of revenge against his mother. Wrong motive to be sure, but it will make Trudy happy. Given the speculation regarding the fate of Peggy's baby, who knows how all of this will turn out.
Don is at a crossroads. He does want to go back to Betty, but still wants to do it on his terms. So much of his life has been done on his terms that he does not know how to bend when the situation warrants it. A perfect example would have been when he and Betty arrived home. She told him to leave, and began a conversation. He should have hugged her and held her tightly. I bet she would have started to cry and let out all of the pent up emotion. They then would have had a basis to reach some sort of peace. A hint to what Betty feels is her comment regarding Don's opinion of expressing grief- clearly this is a legacy of her mother's death and the aftermath- she is still grieving, fears becoming an orphan and needs emotional reassurance. Instead Don essentially did nothing- no expression of love, no empathy for her emotional state, then he turned around and walked out. The culmination of his next scene has Don deciding to go to Ca for business reasons, but it is apparent that the trip will also allow him to reflect on his personal life. Don is too integral a character for him to move to LA, but clearly a change in attitude/perspective etc has been hinted at.
Some have suggested that Betty will get pregnant. Given how the show has developed, this would be too convenient of a development and make for too clean of a "lets do it for the kids" reconciliation. Though it would be a very 50's-early 60's thought process.
Previews show that Roger will question Duck's contribution to SC, then Bert ominously asks Duck if he is leaving the firm. We know that during most of Duck's tenure he has been a thorn in Don's side, but Duck has also brought in business- starting with Kodak which gave us The Wheel… We know that Don is not happy with how he became involved in the relationship between Roger and Jane, perhaps Roger's motive is to get rid of Duck as a peace offering to Don, because he knows how ruthless Don can be in retaliation ?
Looking forward to the next 3 episodes !
Laurie B, your posts are not boring and are insightful. I do appreciate you trying to stay on point.
wadtah: Some people desperatly need attention....he/she is better left ignored.
Seriously, are there people here who think they run the board? This board is for Mad Men, not your silly little power plays.
Mona, I believe, is too old to have Roger's baby now.
I think Jane will dump Roger when he asks to marry her. She wants to play the field.
Paul and Joan - She dumped him NOT vice versa:
Paul - What did I do wrong?
Joan - You have a big mouth
Paul - But...
Joan - You have a big mouth.
(Paul nods)
From the election night episode last year.
Visan, must it be tequila? How about a shot of rye for Don?
A shot of Rye...for Don!
Ha!
Question are the two Younger Guys ( whom were in the meeting asking for lunch and put it on RightGuards Bill ) are they gay ?
Did anyone else get this ? Once they were talking to Jane but thats about it.
hey visan " elevators " ?
I love Mad Men. I love the strong story lines for the women. Joan, Betty, Peggy. I love that Betty is finding herself and the power she wields with her beauty (even on a kid). She did the right thing though, in calling Glen's mother and putting a kabash on the whole creepy thing. That kid isn't right in the head, and I love it. As for Don -- what a hunk. I loved hearing "Telestar" as he flew into LA. It gave me chills anticipating the next episode in California. I'm from California, and Donald Draper would fit right in! As for Pete, he's going to get his -- I can't wait until he learns that he did father a son, and ends up adopting "not one of his own." The recreation of the time period is astoundingly accurate and it makes me nostalgic for that time in the USA -- it was wonderful!
No Tequila, thank you, but I must say I do not understand all these "shots" folks are taking at certain other folks. This is just a fictional show on TV. Wonderful plot lines, great writing and terrific actors. So we all have favorites and characters we love to hate. So what. That's what makes it fun.
My favorites are Peggy, Joan, Don and Ken. They can do no wrong in my eyes. So sue me. My love to hate characters are Betty and Pete - if only they could wind up together - they are so deserving of each other's pathetic company. So sue me again.
Oh, I forgot Roger - but he is in his own little class - you don't love him, you don't hate him, 'cause he is just Roger, and the show would not be the same without him. That also goes for this thread - it would not be the same without Visan and LaurieB and all the rest of you Mad Men fanatics. There, have another shot of Tequila on me.
Jane 20y/o and Rogers ...?? 47years old. Jane isn't going to marry Roger. The next question is who does Peggy have an attraction fore , in the office ?
@Eric: Remember Roger had to walk up those 23 flights after the elevators were broken, thanks to Don paying off Hollis!
@Zerelda: You are a class act!
Grace Kelly was in an auto accident at the time of her death, but an autopsy showed she suffered a stroke. Many believe this caused her to have the accident.
300 + comments and it's only Monday!
The two guys in the preview are Smitty and ??? who are the new "young" team brought in by Duck. They worked on the coffee campaign.
zerelda, some could beg to differ, but thats what makes this blog a blog
What if Betty is pregnant, then miscarries? Don has to have some type of emotional growth for him and Betty to reconcile, and I think they will. Betty doesn't interact with any of the other leading characters and I think her story is a big one to tell (how women handled the revolution that's we all know is coming) so I don't see her leaving the show anytime soon.
SMP and Zerelda: Thanks for the support!
I think Waditah is a troll. Hey Clayton!!
So LassLaura: MAYBE.... Freddie Rumson had a mini-stroke too, which caused him to have an accident. Hmmm???
By hiphugher on October 6, 2008 12:03 PM
Marilyn 1966, I get the feeling Trudy wants an infant...Peggy & Pete's boy is a toddler now going on three isn't he?
You could and possibly are right, hip. I hadn't thought about that, but I do believe that the baby will ultimately be revealed somehow.
On another note, someone mentioned that Betty said that Don was taking the kids out to dinner. I believe her quote was something like, "They don't understand why they feel so special all of a sudden." NOT anything against Don, seems like a simple question from sally to Don would be like, "Gee daddy, how come we get to eat out everynight, we must be special." or something...
JMO.
I've always loved the song Telstar - it was written in honor of the first telecommunications satellite (as pointed out in a previous post) and the image it depicts of a new age and new possibilities was perfect for the end of the episode - Don going to a high-tech convention and Paul going South to register voters is kind of a way of saying a final goodbye to the Eisnehower years and jumping feet-first into The New Frontier.
LaurieB - Maybe!!!
Anyone else think that Betty's father may have sexually abused her when she was younger and they are using his dementia as a cover up?
Poor little Glen...my heart broke for him last night when Betty called his mother...Betty hasn't really crossed the line yet, but she gets pretty close.
When we went to bed last night my husbnd told me that I remind him of Betty...is that good or bad??!!
I still can't believe Roger honestly believes himself to be in love with Jane. Maybe he's had a stroke. Jeesh. Well, Roger always was the eternal frat boy/playboy. Oh, I can't believe Jane will ever marry him either, money or not. Saddle herself with someone that much older? She doesn't look like the type.
On the other hand, I have seen that age difference match-up. What comes to mind, though, is if Jane accepted, I can see her being pregnant right off the bat. Can you see Roger finally getting a son? I can. An heir to the Sterling Cooper throne. Wouldn't that be a kicker out of left field?
@llilpie. Jane, not Mona, would be having Roger's baby.Mona's a little long in the tooth to get pregnant.
Seems like posters on this thread are getting a little hostile this afternoon.......Looks like a war between the old timers vs. newbies.
I got flamed last week by a newbie (upper case rant and all). I tried to explain myself better and defend my position,only to have her disappear from the thread.Dawn! I had a good rebuttal for her too.
I'm hoping that Don will get to whore around in L.A. I think the Palladian was a hot spot back then,Chasen's, The Brown Derby.I love it when they get into the outside world and show us another environment.
Season 1 had several flashback's that really answered a lot of questions for folks (Dick's transformation into Don,Peggy's stay in the looney bin) I hope that Season 3 will give us the backstory of how Don rose to the level he is now at SC. He was a used car dealer,how priceless is that?
I wonder if some dark haired,sophisticated woman took him under her wing? I'd like more story on Sal/Kitty and how long he stays closeted post Stonewall maybe?)
I want to see Peggy get more assertive and be promoted and "over" sneaky Pete. The only women who have a little spunk and 'tude are Hildy,Joan and Jane.
Carla,Hollis and Sheila might get more story time as the the era of civil rights approaches.
I miss Freddy, and I hope Duck go away. He's not central to SC's dynamics as much as he used to be. I think the AAlines plot kind of made him look bad.
I'm not sure why, but I have a feeling that Pete and his wife will end up adopting the child that Peggy gave up for adoption. Pete will want to know where the baby is from (that it is not a 'discard') and his search will lead him to Peggy...... hmmmmmmmmmmm
I think this episode shows that Betty needs to grow up. She continuously acts in childish ways, is incapable of mothering her own children, and is always acting out for Don's attention (she's practically begging him to talk her into taking him back).
She needs to grow up, tend to her children and her household and suck it up like a spouse in the 60's did. I don't think she'll divorce Don.
I'm waiting for the episode where Don storms into his house past her, and reminds her of exactly who is paying for that house and the bills. And she can leave HIS house if she wants to. Then she'll be back to normal.
I also don't think Betty was molested as a child. They showed her father confusing her for the mother at a different time, telling her to get coffee for everyone. Then the situation with the grope. He's clearly in the early stages of dementia.
Speaking of Duck - I lost ALL respect for him, (If I had any at all) when he turned loose his 'beloved' dog (Who's name escapes me right now) - In downtown Manhattan! How low can you get, just cuz you don't want to drink you throw your dog out the door?!
Chauncey, that was the Irish Setters name....
Dogs name " Chancey "
Two Eric's in one room was getting confusing so I changed my name. It was as easy as going from Dick to Don!
Chauncey - very Ivy League name...
Laurie B, why am I a troll? I haven't said anything against you. Also you were talking about Freddie. I watched the inside episode thing, and they talked about Freddie having a drinking problem (which was new to me) and having relatives that are alcoholics, they definitely go on themselves.
Isn't Peggy's Son being taken care of by her Aunt or sister (3Sundays episode ).
She looks in on 3 sleeping children , 2youngsters and an infant. And how can a woman be pregnant and Not know it ? Dr. i have a stomach ache !
Which is why Peggy was in a loony bin thereafter....
Don's going to have to man up and put his big foot down, and not let his wife walk all over him because he feels guilty. This re-wussification of Don is lousy and boring! Hopefully some California grass will re-awaken Don's bad-assness!!
Hey eric i was about to change my name to doubleDon also. Everyone id's each other by their photo , then bitches them out by their name on the blog. Ha ha
Agreed Visan!!!
In the elevator with Paul, Shelia says something like “I guess I’ll have to go to Mississippi alone on Billy Kaplan’s bus.” I wonder if “Billy” is supposed to represent Kivie Kaplan, who was a real person deeply involved in the civil rights movement at that time?
......waditah......Nora lost her father last week. Today is his funeral....
You can leave your condolences on the thread labelled, "Nora."
I know she would be pleased to hear from everyone.
@ Jennifer, to anwer your Q: They're going to Santa Monica, although Paul had expressed interest in visiting Pasadena.
@ the poster (sorry I didn't note your name and can't relocate you in all the above) who made the observation of the sunlight in Don's eyes while Pete's blindfolded. Kudos
@ those who pointed out the Glen character is Weiner's son, thanks. I wasn't aware of it.
My 3 fav moments:
Cooper's "happy birthday"
Joan's pays back Paul with a public humiliation. We and she know who snuck the driver's license out of her purse which led to her humiliation.
Telstar
Waditah: So sorry. I meant NMKay.
Peggy's sister was pregnant at the same time as Peggy, so the toddler is her sister's. If her sister were raising 'twins' there might be some question as to which was who's.
It was Paul who put the copy of Joan's driver's license on the board in retaliation for the way Joan slighted Sheila.
Thank you Dry Manhattan. I just found that before you posted. I was out of posting mode for about 2 weeks because my father had a heart attack and triple bypass.
Nora is my favorite poster. Hope to read from her soon!
The pattern with the Drapers seems to be Don gets caught cheating and either a direct confrontation like this season ensues or indirect, like last season with the shrink. Don slinks back into wuss mode, complete with Mr. Roger's sweaters.
I want his confidence to come back! Please resurrect Big Alpha Dog Don because this submissive version bugs!
I thought it was kind of odd that in 1962 Paul can bring his black girlfriend to his job and everyone behaved as if they were used to seeing an interacial couple. Everyone seemed supportive even the elevator guy, just not real. I'm talking from experience, people here in the U.S. didn't start feeling comfortable with interracial couples until around the 1980's at least! I believe that in 1962 Paul could have been fired from his job for this relationship. (with another reason for his being fired of course) even here in New York City.
On another point, I really don't understand all the 'Betty and the child creeps me out' comments. Betty was just trying to be sympathic with the boy. She obviously never intended for anything inappropiate to happen. The child mis-took her kindness and Betty took the right steps immediatly to send him home, nothing creepy there. As a matter of fact I'm liking Betty more as the series progresses. She is taking charge of her life and is begining to grow up. She is showing Don that she can be on top, in more ways than one.
Ok. We're good Laurie B. Even though I may disagree with some of your posts, some, I do not find you offensive as I do others. Thats what makes this open forum so wonderful is that thousands of people watch the same show week after week and you can get totally different perspectives from the same thing. Its highly interesting!
I've been reading prior messages about last night's show. I think alot of people are way off about Betsy and Glen. I don't get the perv vibe at all. I think it's two lonely, lost people. She betrayed him with calling his Mom. (How about when he said he hated her and she said "I know". Very sad) I think she really cares for him in a platonic motherly way. She's just completely shutting down in every way and that was the last person she seemed to even aknowledge.
Also- I do not think her Dad did anything to her as a child. I think him recognizing her as the Mother and not who she is brings into questions her whole identity and her life in general.
In 1962 did any Fathers to be actually wear a Babies bonnet ? I mean Really !
Gal Friday
I agree. My grandfather died not quite a year ago from dimentia/alzheimers and he didn't know who I was and even with my grandmother he thought she was another woman and told her that she needed to leave because his wife was a jealous woman. They have no clue what and to who they are saying things
Eric, I could hardly stand to watch Harry with that bonnet on!!
Cheryl: I was very attracted to a man I worked with in 1963 and thought the feeling was mutual but he never asked me out, so I asked around and everyone said he was single. I eventually found out that he was living in Greenwich Village, married to a black woman and kept it secret. How sad that he had to do that!
Cheryl: I agree, Glen creeps me out, too. Eric, I agree that no man would wear a baby bonnet. However, I brought this up on another thread (one with less action and a bit more sane), and a poster took umbrage claiming that it was routine to have baby showers for fathers in offices in 1962. I was there. No it wasn't. In fact, women automatically quit (or were fired) from their jobs (yes, that was grounds for dismissal in 1962. Again, I was there). Thus, baby showers in offices were unusual even for women in 1962. Apparently another poster was in an office where men wore bonnets and everyone got drunk and had baby showers for fathers. I don't know where this was, but it did NOT happen in Chicago's ad agencies, at least NOT the ones I worked in! I knew someone who worked in NYC too (ad agency) and it did NOT happen there either. Perhaps it occurred in Little Rock Arkansas or somewhere. I thought Harry looked asinine!
Laurie B. I agree with you. One of the posts said if a man goes outside the home for sex, it usually means he's not getting it at home. I totally disagree with that statement. There are just some men (Don Draper, Mick Jagger, etc.) who simply CANNOT stay faithful to any woman, no matter who she is. It is not Betty's fault. Anyone who thinks he would be faithful to any of his mistresses is living in a dream world. I love the character of Don Draper, but I wouldn't want to be married to him. Also, don't think because Betty is a classic beauty, very prim and proper, regal even, on the outside - that she can't be lots of fun in the bedroom. In fact, I think the writers are trying to show that side of her more now. She's exactly what most men in Don's position would want in a wife.
Interesting thoughts Figaro! I too wonder about how weird it seems to be that slap drunk in the middle of the day and at work with superiors around joining in with you, weird!
Re: Cooper's "Happy Birthday"
One of the funniest moments in movies was in the movie "Cat Ballou" (1965) (a Jane Fonda pre-anti-war film). The murdered Papa Ballou was laid out in a coffin, candles all around him when a drunk Kid Shalleen (Lee Marvin) wanders in and sings "Happy Birthday." And then blows out the candles. He got an Academy Award for that movie.
Incidentally, this movie was released in the same year as the movie, "Ship of Fools." Betty was reading the book in the last episode. Another vague tie to the series.
Also, I think some Boomers like to imagine that they remember EVERYTHING that happened when they grew up. Only trouble is, Boomers did NOT WORK in the BUSINESS world in 1962; the oldest Boomer would have been 16 in 1962. The youngest, not yet born! There is a HUGE difference between thinking that you remember literally EVERYTHING and actually having LIVED it. Quite a difference, regardless of whether or not you watched your parents live it. I worked in some major ad agencies in 1962 (Chicago) and had a friend in NYC in the ad business (Madison Avenue). Some of this stuff they portray on Mad Men is myth tinged with truth; some of it is what the writers THINK went on (the writers are all very young, and though they research, that is NOT quite the same thing as having been there). The shower for Harry was far-fetched. Paul bringing his African-American girlfriend into the office and having everyone but one secretary treat it as though it happened every day was also the figment of some writer's imagination. Some writer who was NOT there in 1962 America! Boomers, I am sure you recall much of the sixties (and some of the fifties) but unless you were an adult in those time periods and you worked in the business world (big cities, etc.), you DON'T really know what you THINK you do! It's kind of like the WWII generation. We can all read about it and watch movies about it and so on, but to those who ACTUALLY LIVED IT, it was a bit different. No TV show can capture every nuance of the times. You HAD TO HAVE BEEN THERE first hand! Also, kind of like being pregnant and having a baby. Sorry, guys, but unless you have gone through nine months of pregnancy, delivery, etc., there is NO WAY you can relate, even if you were by your wife's side the entire time. Some things one just has to experience for oneself.
I known this is a repeat. In 1962 NO where in the States would Someone mix Race kiss their Girl Friend in an Office enviroment. Europe , yes.
One more comment. I believe the reason why Don couldn't keep the "mast erect" with Betty on Valentine's Day is because of his blood pressure meds. BP meds are hard enough for men to take today with all the advancements they've made on drugs and side effects. Back in the early 60's they really had bad side effects, one of the being erectile dysfunction (as they now call it). My dad was an executive, went for a physical required by his company, was told he had high BP and was put on meds sometime in the 60's. I remember he was told he couldn't drink alcohol on them. Next thing you know, he stopped taking his BP meds (maybe my dad had other side effects that I don't want to know about), but anyway my dad died of a heart attack at the age of 58 from high BP.
waditah: Glad you agree. So few seem to. Not that it matters, but to me, unless one was THERE in the midst of things (I mean as an adult in 1962, working in a large office or corporation, etc.), then all they are doing is surmising that MM must be right on the money. They are with some things but some of it is pure fiction! Not everyone boozed it up all day long in offices. In fact, that went on less than one might believe, at least if one watches Mad Men. Also, the guy with the woman on his lap sitting at the typewriter and "snuggling." Even in 1962's much less politically correct atmosphere, THAT behavior would have been frowned upon. These MM characters all seem to do nothing but drink, smoke, sleep around, and well, that's about it. I assure everyone that much of Mad Men is fiction (with a hint of truth) just like Sex and the City. If anyone really believes that all single women living in the Big Apple sleep with 10 different guys every week, drink like fiends, and seem to have unlimited incomes and designer clothing and shoes, well, that is merely a stereotype and a bad one. Again, these types of shows are fun to watch because a lot of what is portrayed is fantasy! I don't say there wasn't smoking drinking, carousing, and all that, but NOT to the extent they portray on MM. And believe me, most guys in the offices I was in did NOT look like Don Draper or Roger Sterling. And there weren't luscious secretaries behind EVERY desk.
Another detail : Did everyone see the girl seating in the lap of someone while she was at her desk.
The figure very non-discript figure in a black suit was completely without a face. It was a weird site.
Someone in the office commented how all were having a great time.
This is one partying office, remember election night. This was brought back by the ackward embrace the one Girl had with Crane at his unrealistic babyshower.
The attractive Secretaries were always at their desk , the Luscious one's were under their Desks.
Figaro , has it written with the couple snuggling, same scene.
Regarding the stigma of adoption at the time. Remember this period is just before the social explosion of Women's Liberation, easy access to birth control and the Sexual Revolution. Back then, a healthy, adoptable white baby had to be the result of an illicit relationship. There was a lot of shame involved. I had one classmate that the other kids whispered about because she was adopted. They all knew that meant she had a "bad" mother. They all wondered if she would be the same way; at 11 years old these little gossips were speculating if she would also grow up to be "bad". Look at how Peggy's sister resents her for getting away with being "bad". She is so angry that Peggy wasn't punished more than she was (like a breakdown, stay in the hospital, being unable to acknowledge her child and the constant worry about being "outed" isn't enough!) that she has to rat on her to the priest.
Has anyone else noticed how slender Peggy now is...and how she is wearing some very stylish clothes that showcase her tiny waist. She's taking Jane's advice about her schoolgirl clothes very seriously and she is becoming tres chic.
Cosmo, I don't believe Betty will leave the show ever. I believe there is a big story line in the works for Betty which I posted above. I love all the characters, but Betty is my favorite. I grew up in the 50's and the writers are very accurate in their portrayal of the 50's housewife. The men had all the control. Women were supposed to just be happy with their big house, entertaining their husband's business associates, kids, nice car, stay at home life. I'm sure a lot of women were depressed, but of course (like Don) their husbands wouldn't understand that. The one thing I find to be inaccurate is how many of the couples are getting separated and divorced. I grew up in an upper middle class background; my dad was an executive and I knew his other executive friends and their families. Not one couple was either separated or divorced. The men may have cheated, I don't know - I was 10. But they didn't leave their wives. In this show we have Glenn's mom, Francine and Carlton, Roger and Mona, now Betty and Don. Did I forget anyone? I don't think it's realistic that this would be happening. I think last season, with all Don's cheating but still coming home to his wife, was more realistic. I think most men do love their wives (and I'm pretty old and have seen a lot in this life), they have a lot of history with their wives, kids, etc. I think most men cheat simply for the sex even if they are getting it at home. Any women who dates a married man better not fall in love because 90% of the time it's a lost cause.
Yeah Figaro, I wasn't even alive then. But you can tell what is just dramatized for effect. I love the show for its fantasy. Others have posted on here saying things like, that typewriter didn't exist then, or nobody said those kind of phrases then. The show I think goes to the lengths it can to make sure of its accuracy and to really just make sure the *feel* is right. I really do think that when I'm watching, I'm looking into the lives of 60's iconic people. Obviously, not everything will be just so, but it does make for great TV.
It seemed to me that Betty was projecting Don onto Glenn when he had to leave with his mother. Glenn says I hate you and Betty goes *I Know*
Kinsey is on the road to getting beat when he gets to Mississippi.
Pete wearing the mask - does he have a fear of flying now?
Both maids have told Betty top go outside - I wonder if she will get out now - new hobby or activity or job?
I agree with posters who think the Glen thing is creepy. If he were around 14 I could see a crush; but at his age (10-12?) it's strange. It might not seem so weird now because kids are sexualized earlier these days, but back then it was definitely not normal. I almost wonder if Glen hasn't been sexualized by something in his background. Maybe we'll discover his Dad used to leave porn mags laying around the house. Maybe Glen witnessed adults having not only having sex, but kinky sex. Maybe he's been molested in some way. Maybe someone has been playing some kind of mind games with him.I think there's something to discover in that family.
Hi Laura P,
YES I agree Peggy's wardrobe is improving. Waiting patiently for the epidsode where she ditches the ponytail.
Why do men cheat? Most of the time, only for the sex. Roger put it nicely when he called Joan "the best piece of ass I've ever had." Made me glad I never had an affair with a married man!
waditah: Yes, if watching for the fantasy and remembering it is only a fictional portrayal, then that's great. It's those who don't understand that it IS fantasy (much of it) and get so serious with all of it. It should be fun, but NOT taken as gospel as to how the fifties and sixties REALLY were, at least not the world of business. Again, some of it is true, but so much of it is what the writers imagine it to be. Again, I was there (obviously I am much older than you), and believe me, a lot of the behavior is standard human behavior portrayed as stereotype. Ah well, that's about all I have to say on this particular subject.
Isn't Peggy's Son being taken care of by her Aunt or sister (3Sundays episode ).
She looks in on 3 sleeping children , 2youngsters and an infant. And how can a woman be pregnant and Not know it ? Dr. i have a stomach ache !
If you look at the footage when Peggy is in the hospital, her sister is VERY pregnant.
I believe that in 1962 Paul could have been fired from his job for this relationship. (with another reason for his being fired of course) even here in New York City.
That's true. It was illegal in most states to marry, so dating would have been frowned on too.
waditah Not everyone with Alzheimer's does that. My father never forgot any of us. Alz and dementia are not a "lump everyone in the same category" diseases.
As for why Don strays - Betty is cold, cold, cold, and emotionally void. Don picks strong women with their own opinions to sleep with. If Betty would just grow up, Don might stay home.
Figaro - some of us not only grew up in the 60s, but study it. So, just because you "LIVED" it doesn't give you the right to put down people who didn't.
Figaro I think you can give people credit that they know this is a TV show and not a documentary. Gee, did all TV writers like Rob Petrie and his wife burst into song at every party? Sheriff Taylor solved every crime and was home by dinner?
Again, it's a TV show, not a documentary. If it annoys you so much to have people not understand that "it wasn't that way", maybe you shouldn't be here.
Here is a link to an interesting article that was posted in the Chicago Tribune about last night's episode:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/10/mad-men-episode.html
I think the glenn betty thing is just a MM method of shock value keeping the audience glued just like then peggy had a baby without knowing she was even preggers
as much as it is truly uncomfortable to watch for some reason you cannot look away ... bring it on MM
I thought the article had some interesting points. I was grossed out by Betty sitting there holding Glen's hand too.
What is wrong with her?
I didn't like that the author of this article couldn't get Sal's name right- it's Salvatore not Salvador. I guess she thought he was Spanish and not Italian.( I think Bryan Batt is gorgeous.)
By Cheryl on October 6, 2008 3:05 PM
I thought it was kind of odd that in 1962 Paul can bring his black girlfriend to his job and everyone behaved as if they were used to seeing an interacial couple. Everyone seemed supportive even the elevator guy, just not real. I'm talking from experience, people here in the U.S. didn't start feeling comfortable with interracial couples until around the 1980's at least!
================
Anybody remember "Society's Child" by Janis Ian, circa 1967?
Come to my door, baby,
face is clean and shining black as night.
My mother went to answer, you know,
and you looked so fine.
Now I can understand your tears and your shame.
She called you "boy" instead of your name.
When she wouldn't let you inside.
When she turned and said
"But honey, he's not our kind."
She said I can't see you any more, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
Walk me down to school, baby.
Everybody's acting deaf and blind.
Until they turn and say
why don't you stick to your own kind.
(Not sure about the rest of this verse. It sounds to me like)
My teachers all laugh, they smirk and stare.
Cutting deep down in our affair.
Preachers of equality. They say "Believe us"
but why won't they just let us be?
They say I can't see you anymore, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
One of these days I'm gonna stop my listening,
Gonna raise my head up high.
One of these days I'm gonna raise my glistening wings and fly.
But that day will have to wait for awhile.
Baby, I'm only society's child.
When we're older things may change.
But for now this is the way they must remain.
I say I can't see you any more, baby.
Can't see you anymore.
No, I don't wanna see you any more, baby.
PS: That song was banned by most stations, I believe, due to its theme.
Mctwisty....this is what I'm upset about...we all want to talk about the show and there are a lot of new people here. Most are really nice and I love to read the posts ...there are about six or seven who think this is just their blog and they can run it. And want to tell you how it is.....Geesh...JUST talk about Madmen...it' just a tv show and I think we all love it.... The characters are all believable to me. ...some I don't like,,,,some I adore.
And I think Betty and Don will get back together but not till next season. And Peggy's baby will stay a secret for a long time....
I think Glenn foreshadows a whole lost generation of emotionally abandoned children of divorce.
"Ken Cosgrove" needs a HOT storyline! I'm sick of him sitting on the sidelines....
Figaro! Figaro! Figaro! I WAS THERE in 1962 working in a large corporation and, although I don't recall any baby showers, I do remember a lot of wild office parties and drinking (not in the office but across the street in a bar with long, long lunches and again after work at the same bar. So just because you didn't personally live it, and even though you are of age, you shouldn't discount it.
wassthere Heck - there was drinking and sex in offices up through the 80s - I know, because I was there too!!
It's a TV show folks - we all know it's fantasy, so don't let people like Figaro ruin your experience.
wasthere: my mother said the same thing about her place of business: lots of parties. And all the parties were usually in the same bar.
This was in the mid-late Fifties, not long before MM.
McTwisty, Get a grip. No one is trying to ruin anyone's experience. You sound VERY ANGRY. Don't take opinions so personally. You'll stroke out. I was merely commenting. No need for you to be on the defensive.
Figaro
I love when people write "you must be very angry". You come in and basically tell people that weren't there to shut up and you say "don't take opinions so personally"? You have nerve, I'll give you that.