Sounds like "the pot calling the kettle black", if you see what I mean!

THERES NO BUSINESS LIKE SHOW BUSINESS LIKE NO BUSINESS I KNOW ...DE DE DE DE DE DE DE DA DA DA DA.............

I mean, everything about it is appealing

No, no attention whoring here - just pointing out a fact. If someone posts in the open thread and doesn't get any feedback, they run out here and make a thread. Two weeks ago they said they preferred we all stay in one.

Mctwisty - Are you an authorized representative of AMC? From your previous posts - it appears not. If AMC wished to discourage and /or eliminate additional discussion I assume the opportunity to start new threads would be removed by the network.

Episode open threads with 700+ posts are unwieldy. Some of us (have lives and) prefer to find/create threads that pertain to our specific interests.

Mad Men is a creative teleplay – an inspired art form. Most threads and associated posts are positive exploration of literary/personal /sexual experiences. Enjoy!

The people here who dictate (you know who they are) merely want to fight, as in "Let's you and me fight." I for one like the different threads as there is more of a focus than the plethora of strange ones over on the main thread who fight and fight and fight, and post about everything under the sun, including tales of their childhood and remembrances of how they too ran out to the Good Humor truck. That's boring. Really boring. I suggest to those who DON'T care for all the threads to not come onto them and stick with the main thread. I don't know HOW good old McTwisty could POSSIBLY know that AMC is miffed with all the different threads (my guess is, McT made it up because he or she doesn't like all these threads). What's McTwisty, an agent for AMC? And believe me, my guess is that AMC is delighted that people are talking about Mad Me and coming to this site. Think about it.

Oh yes, McTwisty isn't dying for attention at all (as he/she accuses the rest of us). That's why he/she came here, don't you think? And really, if everyone is so low in the attention-getting department they have to start a new thread to get it, well, McTwisty, then things must be worse for them than one could imagine!

Figaro: Two weeks ago, the guy who posts the main threads said AMC prefers that we don't make a whole bunch of them. I'll go look and see if I can find where he says that.

And Figaro - do not judge lest ye be judged.

Here you go, Clayton's post:

By Clayton Neuman on October 7, 2008 11:06 AM

Pink Human does not work for AMC. We would actually prefer users not attempt to start topics like that -- they become a bit cumbersome and tend to drown out the rest of the posts.

Regarding your concerns about the episodic open threads, later this week we'll be creating open threads for characters, which should help alleviate some of the weight on the episodic open threads.

Let me know if that might be helpful for you...

Hopefully that clarifies things for you Figaro, proves I didn't "make it up". An apology would be acceptable here.

Figaro hate the show too.

Recent Entries from Figaro
Of course, Peggy!

Do the writers ever give Peggy anything to say but "Of course"? She has said this I don't know how many times over the course of many episodes when confronted with someone telling her something. Her standard line is "Of course." She always looks and acts as though she wouldn't...

Read the full post on Talk: Mad Men »

Posted by Figaro
October 6, 2008 2:23am

Filed under: Characters
Tags: peggy
Attractive Joan Expanding A Bit Too Much

I always like Joan and thought her very attractive. She at least LOOKS like a woman, and not some stick thin figure with no hips or bust. However, wasn't she a C cup last season and now she must be a Double D. If her dresses get any tighter there...

Read the full post on Talk: Mad Men »

Posted by Figaro
August 29, 2008 4:15am

Filed under: Characters
Tags: joan
Either this board is being sabotaged or something is not working!

Excuse me Cleveandrocks, but what is going on with your postings? I mean, all other posting disappeared and your posting (the same one) is appearing and knocking all others off, even ones poster AFTER yours concerning the date of April 16, 1962. That was merely the date in 1963 that...

Read the full post on Talk: Mad Men »

Posted by Figaro
August 18, 2008 2:19am

Notice the Forums are NOT NEARLY as lively as last season?

I can't say as I care for this forum (the way it's set up) as I did last season. I am also noticing the forum is not NEARLY as lively or interesting. I think this makes a statement on the show itself, or perhaps everyone is blogging about MM elsewhere....

Read the full post on Talk: Mad Men »

Posted by Figaro
August 18, 2008 1:18am

Did anyone catch who played the priest? His father is VERY well known!

Only when the credits rolled did I realize the priest was played by the son of Tom Hanks! Colin Hanks. I thought he was going to seduce Peggy at one point!...

Read the full post on Talk: Mad Men »

That particular post from Clayton Neuman happened when "pinkhuman" took it themselves to control the format/content of the forum by creating multiple topics/threads for each character, etc.

But Clayton Neuman/AMC did NOT put any kind of controls on posters creating topics/questions. If that were the case, the forum would remove the "Post a Topic Here" box so we would not be able to do so. I assume that means "encouragement" to do exactly that beyond the Episode - Open Thread that Clayton starts each week.

mctwisty.....
Where did AMC say they wanted us to stay?
I have previously stepped forward to urge them to create and publish some sort of "Conduct Policy" for the Mad Men Forum (NOT just AMC site), to no avail. It is the first step to get us to a cohesive, smooth running group.

Back at the beginning of the season, Maddicts asked for an Open Thread and it was created in an effort to organize us better. Has it worked? No, not exactly....so, without it the weekly influx of new fans merges and paralizes the fragile 'trial and error' organization that holds us together. We are left an even larger unorganized group sniping at each other and at those trying to impose their sense of organization on the board.

What do I suggest?...let your opinions be known (post on the existing separate thread), be kind to one another, and envision Season 3 with new forum software and organization

I don't think we're being heard because we have been posting these concerns all season long...
Or, can you tell me where you read it?

Thanks, Mary Jane, you are the voice of reason here! The Open Threads are ridiculously long; like you said, some of us have lives!

And hello all you squabblers....can you say First Amendment? This is supposed to be fun and entertaining. Get over your ego issues and just post your little hearts out. Everyone deserves a voice and we all don't have to agree, OK!

greytone: I posted it right there. They said if we wanted to talk about individual characters, go to that characters thread. Otherwise, use the main thread. Find a post with Clayton's name in it, click on his name and it will take you to all of his posts.

jamm: Then why did he say this? Regarding your concerns about the episodic open threads, later this week we'll be creating open threads for characters, which should help alleviate some of the weight on the episodic open threads.

I notice you all interpret whatever you want to out of their requests which is probably why no one is responding to your requests. Ya'll just do as you please, at least that's what I'm feeling from everyone's response.

Well said katie. The fights do seem to ensue when posters want to control others' opinions, the format of the forum or the topics. And people dare to attempt to object to being controlled - yep, Freedom of Speech, one of our consitutional rights, and often hard to live with, but these are only opinions (which are neither right or wrong).

No one is trying to interfere with your freedom of speech. Jeez guys, freedom of speech doesn't mean you stand on the corner screaming every day. Just because you don't want to devote some time to read a large thread, you just run off and make more threads. Sounds like you can't be bothered reading others opinions, you're just too busy!

mctwisty: I think he said it in that particular case because it was one poster trying to dictate the whole format and inadvertently taking on the role of the forum moderator, which was being misinterpreted by other posters as a representative of AMC, that's all.

The individual topics started by posters from that point on would be thrown under a "character thread" set up by Clayton, if I understood him correctly or other generic sections (Rumors, Questions, etc). So, it still left us the freedom to post a question/topic, and then for clarity if people wanted to look under a character's name, etc, they could also find the questions/topics consolidated in there by Clayton.

Maybe the format of this forum is annoying for a lot of people because of the repetitiveness or disorganization of topics - I don't know.

I happen to view all the activity/topics on the forum as affirmative confirmation for AMC and MadMen of the amount of "traffic" the site generates, and evidence they can use to justify to advertisers that their network/series is a viable means for spending $$ on advertising. Particularly because this is a show about advertising.

.......Guys.....I have been keeping track and, 1) They are DEFINITELY listening, and 2) They are aware of, and working on both the time stamp problem, and the changes for a better forum.

I still say the very best thing you could probably do is come up with concrete, existing suggestions for changes. Visit other forums and come back and post what features you DO like. Someone said they liked ABC.com, The Bachelorette, and Bill O'Reilly.com premium subscription forum....

I don't want to get into trouble, so that's all I'm going to say....They ARE listening! Check out Clayton's latest on the subject.....

By Clayton Neuman on October 13, 2008 4:28 PM

The Talk forum is set to Eastern time -- meaning that those in Pacific, Mountain, and Central time zones should see a timeshift from when they wrote their comments. But that shouldn't affect their order because everyone should be on the same clock, as it were. I'm not sure what's going on here, but I assure you all we know there's a problem and we're working on it. Thank you for your patience.

Jamm: I understand that interpretation of what he said, but it just seems silly that someone who won't bother to read the thread (for example, there are about 15 answers to "what was the song at the end", posted over and over. The people asking didn't bother to read the thread. Then someone made an entire thread up just for that question that had been answered in the first 25 posts of the open thread).

It just seems like people are too lazy anymore to really enjoy what could be fun - a detailed thread with lots of opinions and questions. It isn't very hard to read through the thread.

People don't seem to bother to go to the individual threads Clayton spoke about. That, and I notice that people will post a long diatribe about their opinion of the show and then say "what do you think" to make it look like a discussion thread, then never come back to discuss it. They just want the attention on their little synopsis.

However, it appears it bugs only me, so I'll leave you guys to it.

oh mctwisty give it a rest. if all they want is pre-set threads, they's shut down the "start a topic" function. they can always delete a thread if they find it redundant.

mctwisty: I see that too, and can understand the lack of thrill for scrolling down. Don't know what you can do, except skip those one-answer topic questions to something with more depth, I guess.

I find the people who tell me to "give it a rest" are the ones doing exactly what I said in my post. Whatever.

Probably, after the season is over, Clayton Neuman should set aside some section/place (I don't how he'd do it) to receive suggestions about the format of the MadMen forum site (not to be published on the forum, please - am not interested in reading the suggestions because it's not about the series content per se).

Jamm: Thanks for the thoughtful answers.

mctwisty....
Yes, I read that. What I have learned (and you have not...and I mean this with no disrespect to you) is that no one except those who make the rules can enforce them. Clayton Neuman (AMC) should be here telling the forum participants to get in line...not us. You will leave yourself open to the world wide web of snipers and trolls if you try to take the lead, and your efforts will be criticized. It's not worth it, especially when all everyone here wanted to do was discuss/comment on a television show.

You notice that the activity on the character threads is almost non-existant. I go over there and post to myself...maybe it's because the 'new' threads weren't brand new and the initial conversations are off topic--sort of. But, if we want it to be better (even in the interim to a permanent solution) we have to act differently. It's hard to change behavior without authority....If you continue to insist on drawing the fire...keep your head down...lob a grenade, and change your identity when you resurface!

With love and support....

Hi Greystone. Please forgive my ignorance...does Clayton Neuman work for AMC, and if so, in what capacity? Thanks!

McTwisty: You are nothing more than a hostile trouble maker who comes here to fight. Man Men isn't your thing, FIGHTING is! YOU NEED to be right! Why? Rhetorical, I already know why. YOU were NOT appointed by AMC or Clayton Nueman (hmmmm) to enforce this board. Why would you bother? Rhetorical, I already KNOW why. Anyway, why don't you just take a pill, chill, and stick onto the main thread if this is bothering you so intensely. If AMC starts PAYING you to monitor their board, then hey, go for it, otherwise, why bother?
Again, rhetorical. There is another forum Mad Men TV Lounge that is going on and it's far more sedate and sane. However, since no one here monitors that one either, why take it upon yourself to worry about what's on either one? Why not just post about MM. That's what this board is for. And if AMC gets their undies in a bundle then let THEM deal with it. My guess is they did not appoint YOU to do it for them.

katie: Clayton Neuman does work for AMC and is the forum moderator for all the varying sites (MadMen, Breaking Bad, Classics, etc) on their network site.

mctwisty: thanks, and take it easy!

Figaro- I'm not going to argue with you. All someone has to do is click on your name and read your posts to see you are nothing but a pathetic, angry person who doesn't like the show.

It's so funny how brave you are behind a false name. Internet anonymity makes for very bold posts. You've done nothing but pick on me since I started here. You're a bully and very, very boring.

greytone Understand and will do.

......Just a few of the suggestions I remember from before are:

• Allow posting of individual threads, but only with a "trusted user or poster" status.

• Give each topic 3 days to get going, and if there are still zero comments, remove it from the site.

• When an individual thread gets a comment it gets bumped up to the top of the queue like other boards do.....would keep the active threads going and the ones with no comments would sink to the bottom and in effect scroll off.

• Include an author "edit" or "delete" button.

• Number AND date the posts, making it easier to identify which post you're replying to.

• The character threads are a good idea for general talk about, for example, Don Draper's hotness or psychology or history or anything else. (Personally I don't mind a mixed discussion. Keeps it lively.)

Lastly, I think the thing that makes or breaks a complex forum like this is building a website that is facile at funnelling the right traffic to the right places. That probably means an attractive, but simple layout, and the right "visuals" to direct people. Not sure. Any web designers out there??

For instance, the Character Threads are a good idea, but I'm worried that no one is tempted to go there and populate them, in the current layout.

McTwisty: yes, right, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Hey McTwisty, aside from the blah, blah, blah, EVERYONE is here under a false name! Is your REAL name McTwisty? Oh, you are too, too funny. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Night all.

Yes, katie....
He is the moderator/contact person at AMC....
I am not as optimistic as Dry Manhattan about AMC's concern, though. I do NOT think they have been listening. Selective listening, with selective feedback in my estimation. I feel this whole thing could have been resolved with communication, yet it resurfaces again and again because it is missing.

This site has been a low priority for AMC, and the success of the show probably overwhelmed the budgeted management costs. Imagine if Clayton is the only person monitoring all the small sites on AMC...he well may be overwhelmed. My problem is that we don't know...with no communication all I can imagine is his feet up on his desk while this place crumbles. I certainly do not want to put forward that Clayton is lacking, but doing the best he can. What has been done is just not the right solution for all parties.

He did get rid of a troll when I was trying to be peacemaker...so he does have his redeeming traits....lol...thanx Clayton...

Figaro: Just the answer I would expect from a "many times published writer". Bet no one has ever heard of you. You are a bully, plain and simple. I believe in karma, so good luck to you.

Yes, everyone is here under a false name, and you're such a genius for figuring that one out!!

Maybe I don't completely understand the idea behind these on line forums. I have said many times, this is new for me.
I thought the idea was to share insights and experiences as they relate to Mad Men?

Why are some people becoming so angry?

Poor Clayton, I think he IS the only one moderating the whole site. Yikes, talk about stress.

....greytone....Did you see my message about zerelda?

thanks everyone, for trying to find a solution... my favorite posters are on this thread...

chocolatecherry, you are hilarious! I'm still laughing at your 'no business like...' post. made me grin.

one thing I wanted to add about the out-of-order posting issue: I notice when I take the time to read through many many posts and get to the bottom of the page and respond, it's responding to the last one I see - but it takes so long on that one page, that, in the meantime many other posters have continued to submit, therefore, my post winds up higher.
problem is that on the first day, when ppl are posting like mad, you can never finish reading in time to be the last post, so whatever you might have said, is now lost 'up there, somewhere'.

Thanks, Jamm54 and Greystone.

Now that I know who he is(!), my guess is that, yes, he may be overwhelmed or...it's possible that his position/job description is one that takes a laissez faire posture...in other words, he may NOT supposed to be the Post Police. I think that other than if something incredibly vulgar or illegal happens on the site, my guess is that AMC is happy that the fans are so passionate in their commentary (and viewing!) and do NOT want to infringe on their Free Speech and alienate their audience. It's a fine line there.

Having said that...everyone back in your corners! Take a deep breath and relax!

60schild: I don't even get what is going on here? Is this a "Everyone needs a good fight?" site? All the threads seem to be getting this way. I don't even know what everyone is talking about here. I thought it was a Mad Men site. I read a lot of nastiness here, especially by some poster named McTwizzle or someone. What is going on?

Oh yes, and who is Clayton and why is he being mentioned and oh well, never mind.

btw, have to say that I pretty much always agree with jamm54, greytone, and dry manhattan.
just thought I'd let you all know how much I always read and enjoy your posts.

[not to exclude lots of other good posters...] :)

PeteandTrudy: Clayton Neumon is the AMC website forum moderator for everything (MadMen, Breaking Bad, Classics, etc).

He's the last court of appeal for suggestions, complaints regarding the forum (hey, and the guy who gives out presents!!! - I'D LIKE A MAD MEN CUP CLAYTON.....hint,hint).

DM...
Yes, thanx!

The episodic open threads are such a bad idea. There are so many comments and so many are duplicates and the same people rant and rave on and on. It's a total bore.
Who has the patience to read the Open Thread anyway?

.....I just think it's a shame that before the Emmys, there was an unspoken, but well-understood code of respect, courtesy, tolerance and forgiveness, as well as giving your all to the list and to the other posters. There was a very nice atmosphere of fun and safety, also.

Now, with the influx of new people bringing outside forum "cultures" with them, there is constant sniping, insolence, intentional disrespect, abuse, harassment and way too much frivolous self-aggrandizement. I'm seeing people being attacked who are, in fact, the LAST people on this list who should be enduring it.

Everyone should get a few "get out of jail free" cards when they are new, but the things I am seeing on here are not just a major turn-off....they are appalling. I can't believe they get away with it.

I'm glad the big thread is there to catch all the new people, and hope it holds them there until such time as they have learned some manners and a modicum of maturity.

Holy smokes! What's with all the nasty fighting today? I want my peaceful forum back. :( Snarky posting is SO not necessary - there's a enough crap in real life, so I wish people wouldn't bring it to the forum. end whining.....

I'd just like to say that I enjoy your posts jamm and Dry. You are much more patient and kind than I am! :)

it will all be over soon ... :?{ all good things must come to an end
until next season then we can all hate each other again

.....Hi hanna.....Back atcha. As you can see, my formerly long, wet fuse is burning low....:)

jamm54: Now I see regarding Nueman. Thanks! hanna, I know what you mean about all the fighting! Yes, life is hard enough that we don't need to bring the animosity here to the boards!

.....Oh, and hey, hagen!

:)hey!
keep posting, I'll keep reading!

.....If you guys want to know more about Clayton Neuman and how busy he is, check out his profile here on AMC, as well as Googling him to see his other work(s). Guessing he's got his hands pretty full!

I can't even spell Clayton's last name right! LOL. So far, I think I've spelled it 3 different ways! Lord help you, PeteandTrudy, if you found him - not because of my "efforts". Jeesh, my proofing skills really suck.....

Having never been on any kind of forum or chat room or whatever before MadMen, this has been a real learning experience. I can "see" how easy it is to offend others or be misinterpreted without even trying to generate hostility. I think some of the tone that's come after the Emmys is an influx of SO many new posters. Thank god, though, for the large thread (I hope they don't remove it) - the movement of any negative moods through the whole thing seems to peter out eventually.

Personally, I really have always liked the additional "Post a Topic or Have a Question" option, because so many posters do pose some very, very interesting ideas, and perspectives. Easier to navigate the separate smaller threads. I'd be very crushed if those disappeared.

***NOV 16 BOOK CLUB DISCUSSION***

Go to Mad Men Book Club topic, and look at the suggestions. We're starting with characters' reads first, look at my Oct 19 post for voting there. Join in!

....jamm.....Where and when do we vote? Are you going to prompt us? Thanks for doing this - I'll be crushed if I don't have time time to participate!!

....Sorry! Damn....that one got away before I realized you just gave the answer - D'oh!

A suggestion..have one separate thread for backbiting, insulting, dissin' and general slander and character asassination. Let the ones who want to argue go there and just do it, in a contained area. If a hot disagreement comes up in any other thread, the opponents "step outside" to the argument thread and do it there, saving broken
furniture and collateral damage to the other maddicts.

Should there just be a topic called "FIGHT CLUB"? LOL

.......ROFL!

flowerpower and jamm - While I'm laughing my a** off at the idea of a MM talk forum "Fight Club", I do like the idea of a thread where people who are bickering can go and duke it out in private w/out other posters having to be in the middle of it. Seeing the fight on a thread is so uncomfortable for those not involved and it usually makes me want to leave the thread. Oh, and I just wanted to throw out there that on some forums there's a choice to IM individuals if you want to talk to a specific poster privately (to fight, share e-mails, have private conversations). It would be nice here.

As a new person to this board (just the past month or so), it dismays me to see the "elder" members of the board trying to impose rules on the newer members. There are a lot of blowhards here, and some downright mean old members. And you guys are nominating them to be "moderators"?

I think it's sad that someones opinion causes all the elder statesmen to freak out. Someone fresh comes in and questions how someone can get away with their behavior and they get jumped on something fierce.

I agree the board needs a dedicated moderator, if only to reign in the ones that feel so entitled.

Hanna said that all the "fighting" makes for an uncomfortable thread. I agree. But imagine as a new person walking in and getting hammered by the elder members for having an opinion. No one but AMC "owns" this board, and threads like the "we need to elect a moderator", done in such a nasty tone seems to be solely to drive new people away.

Please, correct me and say I'm wrong.

I don't know exactly who's "elder" and who's "new". I know the ones I've talked to since about May-Jun, and then I've kind of lost track. I thought you'd been around for quite a while "zabadu".

For me, I just respond to whoever intrigues me, and some I "know" better than others. I've tried to sidestep the whole issue of who's right/wrong, elder/new directly or forgo direct/indirect challenges to or from posters. Does this make me a wuss? Probably. I have no energy left, really, to address this issue - I guess, again, it's probably best to direct issues to Clayton Neuman. Sorry if that's not a very good answer.

fight club is hilarious.

@zabadu: take heart, don't let yourself be silenced. The only thing I can suggest is to avoid inflammatory questions/posters.

Today was the first time I had (by coming on this topic) in a long, long time. I was trying to answer mctwisty because they seemed to "want" answers or responses, and now I wish I had stuck to my original philosophy and stayed off this topic because it was practically an invite to negative responses by how it was phrased.

And sometimes, when the topic is posed with language/words that usually convey negative emotions (i.e. hate, dictate, accuse, hostile), even though I think the questioner and the posters have no idea how the words affect them, it certainly does. I thought I was being pretty civil, but I guess I failed with mctwisty, and with you. Sorry......

Jamm: But it's an honest answer.

Jamm: I think you did fine - you didn't answer with any venom or tell them to go somewhere else or tell them "who made you moderator". I thought your answers were really kind.

It just frightens me that people are really so mean. I have to agree with McTwisty that when people are anonymous they tend to say things they never would in person.

How does one get a hold of Clayton if they wanted to?

I thought "fight club" was q pretty funny response to the dead seriousness of even acknowledging the periodic waves of inflammatory emotions that run through the forum on occasion.

@zabadu: I think you can email him at:

clayton.neuman@amctv.com

Or go to AMC's main page or MadMen main page, and I think his email will be there. Anybody else know Clayton's email direct?

One thing that just interacting on the forum has taught me is how powerful language really is. And the words for negative ideas/emotions, and phrasing are also very, very powerful.

Funny, isn't it? There's not nearly as much face-to-face contact between people as there are written emails/IM these days, and yet we still have the ability (incredibly) to inflict hurt, hatred, disdain, condescension, arrogance, and intolerance all through the internet.

Kind of a sad testimony to the "power" of the internet, don't you think?

jamm - You seemed completely polite, kind, and civil in your answers IMO. Amazing!

zabadu - I don't know what is up with the 'nominating the moderator' thread, but I don't like the idea either. The moderator should be someone from AMC who has actual power and authority, but can be objective. I'm sorry that you feel some of the older posters are being mean to newbies. I think some people have no patience for those who ask questions (sometimes the same questions get asked over and over again), but there's no need for anyone to snap at anyone else. An "in your face" tone and picking fights is not necessary either. Most of the people who have been posting for several months are good folks, and the nastiness is something new for us too (in the last month or so) when there was a huge influx of new posters. We are dismayed by the ugly behavior too, and I think the 'rule making' was just a reaction to that, trying to make the forum peaceful again. As the forum is going through some growing pains and people are feeling out the 'culture' of the forum, I hope you stick around and continue to post with us. Don't let a couple of sour apples ruin it for you!

Jamm and Hanna: Thanks for the honest comments. It is a sad testimony to the "power" of the internet.

I agree that if there is a moderator, it should be someone from AMC - maybe with the third season they'll sort it all out.

I just hope some of the "regulars" will take a deep breath and stop jumping all over the newbies. Nice, calm answers, like yours and Jamms are a much better way to handle it than "who made you boss?" You guys are all right!

My only other advice is to be your own censor.

Meaning when you see topics or posters in a thread that start making you hot under the collar (and I'm no angel - there's been plenty of times I've been really pissed off by comments or topics started), is to not respond.

Advice well taken. Thanks again.

@hanna: Yeah, and I'm not even on tranquilizers, anti-depressants or hard lemonade today! Just plain 'ol vitamin B! I'm happy! And I'm broke and going under financially!

jamm - Totally agree. In real life, I'm a pretty good censor of what I say versus what I say in my head, but it's harder on a blog. You get caught up in what people are discussing, and its so easy to type something up anonymously and post it w/out a second though of how it will be PERCEIVED. Maybe some of us are too sensitive or maybe some people are too harsh and blunt, but it is important to think before you post in anger, and to avoid jumping into an argument (you can't take it back!) I also try to remind myself not to take anyone's negative comments to heart - these people don't really know you.

jamm - LOL I could use some hard lemonade right now too! God bless ya! I hope the house sells and things go better for you soon. Sending you happy thoughts... despite the lovely WA rain. :)

I think the only time I did REALLY lose it was about three months ago. What I remember was being so angry (I can't even remember who or what), but it wasn't worth it.

The moment you post angry words you've practically put a spotlight/bullseye on yourself to start taking some very nasty hits from others. Why invite attack? It's a putrid feeling, and it makes you feel so bad about yourself for losing control, and then being attacked by others on top of it. It's like a double-beating (self-recrimination and active object of hatred by others).

I guess it's only worth responding in anger or taking in others angry emotions if you feel like being on the "cross" for a while......LOL

And please remember, some posters deliberately post controversial topics to watch the reaction...don't fall for it!

Look at the poster's profile before posting a response to that person...Can you decipher anything about their personality from the comments you read? Is this someone you would sit down and talk to? If not, keep it moving....

The greatest power you have (other than your unique voice) is to ignore...
In this medium it's frequently the best choice.

jamm54: Agree with everything you stated! I too was angry at someone for something or other, but it goes back to the beginning of season two. This person I was angry at was a real snarky type and now, I too don't even recall what it was we were discussing, nor do I recall who the long-forgotten (and totally irrelevant) poster was! I think that's the problem with any board on any subject. People just spend too much time discussing something (let's be honest here, Mad Men is often discussed way beyond reason, with some people posting so much information that well, who cares after a while! I really think some of these people should go get a job writing for the show. LOL!). Anyway, the Web and forums invite this sort of bad behavior (because it's all done anonymously), and because so many people want the last word. Give it to them and save yourself, that is my motto! Be the bigger person and just go to another thread or get off the forum for awhile.

greytone: Yes, agree with you and jamm54. Especially about how some post controversial stuff just to see what response they illicit and then they pull out all the stops. What's the point? There isn't any!

And greytone's right (though sometimes I do think it's very unconscious, too). But if they phrase the topic/question or comment in such negative language, they are provoking hostile, negative reaction because that's the reaction they're looking for, whether they'll admit it to themselves or not.

Then a few role "reactions" are usually played out:

1) Innocent Victim (my topic/response was harmless)
2) Attacker (you vile bastard for being so mean)
3) Fighter (I'm going to punish the hell out of you for disagreeing with me)
4) Martyr (why am I always picked on)

Been seeing the pattern over and over. I've also noticed the same problematic posters jumping from topic to topic in order to voice their "reactions" in one of the roles I named (victim, attacker, fighter, martyr).

So there's some kind of payoff for holding on to a POV rather than letting it go and moving on. Don't want to get caught up in that "Games People Play" mode. Life is too short, I've been through 7 hellish years and am only looking for thought-provoking "entertainment" relating to fictional drama.

@greytone: I've never done that (look at their profile), but you can certainly spot a "pattern" of how they respond to others. Usually though, I can sense it in their previous post in a thread (as I'm sure everyone can). But, yes, seeing if it's a common way that they respond, well, then you can take your chances or choose not to respond, even if you're being "attacked".

Personally, I'm not a fighter and I'm certainly not very good at being assertive, and I hate confrontation. I grew up with a lot of chaos, so it's not a "turn on" for me to go at it with someone.

In a medium like a public talk forum, there truly is NO RIGHT or WRONG, because these are opinions.

Who is to say someone else's opinion is right or wrong? No one. Nor does anyone have a right to condemn someone through means of sneering, sarcastic, contemptuous put-downs. It's just pointless, unless the whole name of the game in the interaction is to prove "rightness, superiority or contempt".

About the most torturous thing you can do to those looking for a negative "reaction" is to not respond or be indifferent. There's nothing worse for them by not "engaging" them.

jamm54: Right again! I must say though that I have posted about the abuse on some of these threads (hate to play the Martyr). And, I too have no desire to participate in "games people play," and I also think there are way too many threads going on here. Some of the subject matter is really weak, and I think those should just simply be removed by AMC. I think the board should be better controlled by AMC, or at least have a moderator who is more pro-active. This board often turns into a free-for-all! I agree too that this is fictional drama (as you stated) and I think some folks have a hard time separating fiction from reality. I was taken down town for this comment on another thread (sorry, don't mean to sound like the martyr) with the poster inferring I was an idiot for having suggested that anyone cannot separate the two. I stand by my observation, however, some folks are getting WAY too into this drama and using it as some sort of cathartic. Or maybe they just like to fight. Who knows! Anyway, good observations by you.

Okay, my last comment on all this crap. I think what's happened as the forum has grown is that simply by percentages, we're seeing more people who are seeking attention of any sort, and will go to any lengths to get the focus on themselves.

Funnily enough, even when they post a topic/question or respond, the whole focus is negatively on "them" either way - it's never about the series, a character, a plot line - always focuses directly on them.

Ah, just ignore the frivilous posts. The forum is definitely having growing pains (as is AMC). It'll be streamlined and get better as it goes along.

jamm54:One more thing. Isn't it amazing at how Mad Men has illicited so much from so many? Although (oh no, I am really going to date myself here) I recall my parent's friends and neighbors discussing Peyton Place with the same passion! Of course, the Internet was not in existence back then, but Peyton Place ran twice a week (as a series, I am not talking about the movie), and people were discussing it all over the place! A neighbor got mad at my mother because she wasn't a bit watcher of the show, and accused her of thinking she was "too good" to watch it? My grandparents were avid watchers and if anyone said anything against the Mia Farrow character of Alison McKenzie, my grandmother would go ballistic. I guess people are people no matter what they like or dislike on television. Kind of makes you long for the days of radio (which I definitely DON'T recall)! Good night.

Hey, I play all the roles too. For me, this series has been cathartic, but again, your opinions are neither right or wrong, and they are valid. I think some of the conflicts may be because of the variety of maturity in the posters (again, not necessarily meaning older is more mature - there was one 70's poster who was a real pistol - could attack better than anyone seen here lately). It's just people and life. That's why freedom is really tough. You have to honor others rights even if they don't honor yours.

Finally, I don't know if people who are confrontational are too "in" to MadMen.

I think those who are confrontational and argumentative are just using the forum AND MadMen as a means to vent those emotions rather than an actual interest in discussing the series, characters or events. It's really about them, not about the MadMen series.

Yep, jamm, you've hit the nail on the head. The aggressive posters would most likely be aggressive on any forum, and it has nothing to do with the show. I think a lot of forums have a 'culture' that is about one-upping each other, showing off, bickering, and fighting over which couple, character, storyline, etc. is the best/worst. This really hasn't been the culture of this forum, but we're seeing some of it lately. Too bad.

Yeah, it is too bad, but that's "progress" with the growth the forum contributors. Requires more discipline to turn a blind eye to antagonistic elements and try to keep it civil, and preserve the sense of community that was there.

.......zabadu.....You may recall that previous to this I was the original “rah-rah” girl for getting new people, so I hope you don’t take any of this the wrong way. I’m sorry you had a bad experience, and it’s perfectly fine to say something about that, but I haven’t seen an example of what you are talking about……who are these people imposing rules?

Pretty much all the “elders” on here are pretty cool, and have been working on cultivating mutual respect and tolerance and courtesy for a while now, which is one of the things that makes them so cool. Everyone might not totally agree with each other all the time, but everyone does stand by each others’ right to speak out (respectfully, of course). By saying “elder,” if you simply mean someone who's been here a long time, well, that's a whole other thing. Some of us might not like him or her either, but what are you gonna do?

The others are right. You are always going to have one or two people who come to a public forum under an assumed name for the specific purpose of stirring up trouble and getting attention. Click on the profile and then the comments of some of these people. You will see that, rather than spending their energy writing insightful posts, they mostly just hop from thread to thread, deliberately stirring up controversy, with them at the center of it all, of course.

And what is all this useless rhetoric about a forum moderator? We have one. His name is Clayton Neuman, and he works for AMC. Some of the people here do not understand they are guests, just like everyone. Censoring the length or content of someone’s post or original thread is not anyone’s business but Clayton’s. Would you go to a party and act like that? Would you go into someone's home and act like that? Why go on a thread for the specific purpose of being rude?

PeteandTrudy….I am generally NOT an attacker, and in fact am almost always extremely kind, but I do not believe in dysfunction, or covering up what clearly should be said, so I’m not quite as patient as the very wise jamm54.

I just want to say one thing here and that is – are you aware that Nora Paradiso is a dear friend to the people on this forum? Not only is she one of the original “elders,” she is literally the nicest person on here.

Another thing – Nora lost her father very suddenly two or three weeks ago, it was extremely traumatic, and she is just now coming back. I was very upset that you would post something snarky on her first thread back. I don’t care how weak or not weak it is, Nora is a friend, and that was uncalled for. If you don’t like something, why are you taking the time not only to click on it, but to post a negative reply? SKIP OVER IT.

There. I said it. That was not a personal attack, but I am being honest.

EVERYONE – please think about others, and the things you DON’T know about them, before judging or censoring or dashing off a “hot” post. No one is as smart as they think they are, and no one knows what any of us might be going through off line, even now.

If there is one thing I have learned from having the privilege of hanging out with these amazing people, that is that we are ALL the walking wounded, and we should treat each other with care, however much we do or do not have in common.

And, one last thing (here come the rotten vegetables) - the posters on this board range in age from 18 to 80. Be aware - some of the "elders" on here really MAY BE your elders, so show some damned respect.

Okay, rant off. Thank you.

.....Here is another message from Clayton I happened across just now....

By Clayton Neuman on October 7, 2008 9:42 AM
Thanks for all these suggestions -- I can tell you that improvements to the boards, some of which were discussed in this thread, are coming. We are listening to the fans, but these things take time! --AMC

Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth here......
@Dry Manhattan,jamm54 and greytone. I am speaking for myself here, I have constantly enjoyed all of your posts regarding our beloved MM show.I don't write that often,but I do read everyone's opinions and perceptions.
I agree with Dry Manhattan that since the Emmy's the traffic has increased and it has brought more than a few rude folk into the fray. I know I am not alone in my distaste for having to read/scroll through 20 different posters who are having a brawl.I'm not saying all was perfect before the Emmy's,but there has been a noticeable hostility among some posters since MM has increased viewership.That being said,there are more good,thoughtful posters who visit this site than there are
the "bullys". I do think that the anonymous nature of the net can give a person a sense of empowerment that they might not have otherwise.If we were discussing a MM episode face to face at cocktail party I'm sure some of these bully's wouldn't be so obnoxious.
Clayton Neuman has his hands full with all the different AMC sites. Hopefully,by Season 3,some of the kinks will be worked out and this site will become more "user friendly".
@jamm54. I am AMAZED that you haven't received a prize from Clayton for your writings on this site.Believe it or not,I got a prize for something I wrote that caught Clayton's eye and lo and behold I received a Mad Men baseball hat. I was so surprised since there are so many other posters here that write 10x better than myself.If you have ever read what I've posted you know what I mean. I am articulate in person,but not much of an illustrious writer.

wow, diplomacy reigns! thanks all for the kind way in which you're all trying to resolve these issues - esp. jamm54, you are indeed a born diplomat, and so kind.

agreed. be kind, it's here for a fun and lively discourse on a great show, which will never please all the people all the time. that, I think is what's so interesting about having a discussion! I've been reading these posts on and off, and have only started posting in recent weeks, but it's the first time that I've been moved to get so into a show that I visit a talk forum. testament to how good MM is!

I just skim over posts that look like they're instigating controversy, [and I mean with hostility, as opposed to a differing opinion] because, well, whomever it is is allowed to have an opinion, too. whatever. so I look at the posters that really interest me, and whose insights that I enjoy. it's fun! that's what it's here for! just my two cents.

thanks again, everyone, for continuing all these great discussions.

madmanfan4ever, thanks for your post, regarding how we'd all behave at a cocktail party....

let's all just pretend we're at a [face to face] cocktail party, and someone brought up mad men...discuss!
[and of course, we're wearing MM style clothes, and there's some great 60s boozy cocktail cha cha music in the background...]

@hagan. Actually the plans are in the works for a Maddicts get together in NYC in early December.So there will be cocktails involved since this is Mad Men.Gail Klein is the organizer.Last I heard 8-12 have confirmed.
I am pretty sure that all who have indicated interest are the nicer folks that post on here.In other words,none of the instigators of name,calling,"I'm right,your wrong" type of posting have RSVP'd.
Don't get me wrong,I appreciate a lively debate as much as the next person,but when it gets down to name calling,bullying,etc then it is a big turn off.
So yes indeed there will be a cocktail party and it will be a rockin time rehashing MM episodes and discussing potential plots in season 3.
You should try to come.I think they want to have it @P.J Clark's. I am coming in from ATL and others are coming from other states too.

@madmanfan4ever: I DID receive my prize already from Clayton way back in early August. I got the pen with the guy falling from the building - it's cool! I'm just being greedy now - and lobbying for the cup! LOL

@Dry Manhattan: someone attacked Nora Paradiso? Oh, that's sad and so unfair, after what she's gone through. Nora is so sweet. Thanks for standing up for her DM. See I'm not good at that, but in the case of Nora, I'm REALLY glad you did.

That's what's usually happening - some people try to come to the defense/aid of someone being attacked and it just snowballs. In a face-to-face it probably wouldn't be happening with the frequency that it has lately. And to confront/call someone out for it just seems to exacerbate the attacker's emotions and be a turn on - the ugliness escalates even more and goes on and on and on. Then, just as you noted, the attacker jumps to another post carrying their "fight" and emotions to a new topic to tell everyone. It is contagious.

I haven't run across Nora Paradiso in the discussions lately, but give her my regards if you "see" her before me. Hope she's doing well.

ooh, REAL cocktail party! I'd love to come, I'll keep my eyes open for more info....

and although it might sound disengenuous because I'm new here and don't 'know' Nora, I'm so sorry for her loss.
Nora, if you read this, just went through that myself, and I 'get' it. it's crushing. so sorry.

CLAYTON NEUMAN: He has done an outstanding job for the size of the website, and the increase in traffic over the last 10 months. Jeez, he needs an assistant at the very least.

But Clayton is not a traffic cop/censor. Requesting him to swoop in and discipline argumentative posters is not going to work. Maybe they can post a Golden Rule guidelines for the forum as a reminder to people that the anonymity of the internet doesn't mean you leave your social manners at the door when you enter the forum.

Or, they could post a 1950's picture of a mother with the caption below reading:

Would You Talk to Your Mother This Way?

Do you know, I don't think it would be so off the wall to have either

FIGHT CLUB CORNER

BLOW OFF STEAM CORNER

When you're really pissed off, go to BOSC especially and rant and rave to yourself (don't name names) and get it all typed out, and then go back to the forum with the tensions "released".

And there, have the moderator censor/edit out the names.

I'm with you - there should be a specific place to 'step outside'.

love 'fight club'. very funny.

DryManhattan: THANK YOU for what you wrote (upthread a little). Man, this thread made me so exasperated, but I resolved to stay the hell out of it. But you, Jamm54, and others summed up what I wanted to say, but you did it much nicer. ;)

@jamm54. Oh good to hear you got a prize too! A pen at that.
I know, I covet that coffee cup too.....in a bad way and I am willing to pay for it(are you listening Clayton?)
There's no way that you can monitor and enforce people to be considerate,respectful and polite on any website and especially in today's society. If you talk to people who were born in a different era like say before the 50's they tell you it was different in the 30's,40's,etc. Manners were important and respect was a given. I don't know when it went downhill but now we are in a different age where doors get slammed on you,road rage,customer no service,etc. o.k. I'll get off my pulpit now!
I just navigate around this site and when I see a "hot air zone"
I change lanes and find a more congenial thread.
@hagan, You can go to the thread Maddicts Meet in NYC and Gail listed her email address for interested parties.
I can't believe someone attacked Nora Paradisio. That is
a lowdown thing to do. It just goes to show what some -sswipes are capable of in the safety zone of the internet.
I hope someone took them to task!

@hagan: Dry Manhattan took the person to task for being unnecessarily rude to Nora Paradiso.

Hey, on Oprah last week she had a guest author who had written a book on the loss of civility in our society. In it he outlines and argues for the restoration of manners and civility as a means of lessening the anger and ugliness that seems to be growing. The book was called something like "An Argument for Civility" or "In Defense of Civility" and he's saying that the loss of civility is destroying our society and our culture.

.....jamm....Thanks for the shout-out. Telling the truth doesn't exactly win you a bunch of friends.

greytone gives me a hard time about sticking my neck out, and she is right, but the other thing I've learned is that there is definitely a price to both. It's important to know the difference, making a point to err on the conservative side. However, sometimes, once in a while, someone has to step up.

I was viciously attacked recently for no reason, and didn't bother to defend myself. There were a zillion things I could have said, but I realized it was pointless. Beside appearing to have some kind of mental disorder, this person very clearly operates on negative reinforcement. I do not, and never the 'twain shall meet. What I learned from that was, "don't try to talk to someone who speaks a different language." How sad is that?

I have really been trying to ignore all the negative stuff, but I couldn't let this one go. I don't mean to single any one person out, or be hurtful, but the blunt truth does hurt sometimes. Believe me, no one on this board has learned that lesson the hard way more than me.

Like it or not, people here have been doing things a certain way for a long time, and someone new just pops in and starts directing traffic. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It would be different if the motivation were well-meaning, but more times than not it's gratuitous.

Really? Pretty sure the big difference in the "happy/not happy" cultures on this board is a simple case of the positive versus negative reinforcement. It's like we are speaking two different languages.

Forum "elders" are committed to completely ignoring negative stuff, and praising the positive stuff. Sometimes I don't totally agree with that, but I also see the benefits, and have been lucky enough to have been forgiven myself for various "hopping toads."

A couple of "regulars" and some new people operate under the negative reinforcement, and get their "fuel" from that.

As to jamm54, she is the "Energizer Bunny" of the forum. She is an amazing writer, an awesome human being, and just keeps going...and going.....and going.... rain or shine, jamm keeps going...and going.....

I can log on any time of day or night (I'm a night-owl) and find fabulous little breadcrumbs left by jamm.

I almost gave up on this forum so many times in the past two or three weeks. I think jamm may be the one thing bringing me back right now. jamm, and "Little Nora!"

Anyway, I love the idea of a "FIGHT CLUB - DUKE IT OUT HERE" or "GOTTA BEEF? TOSS A CHICKEN OUT THE WINDOW HERE" threads.

They should have it permanently installed on the sidebar and then when someone acts up, they can just go to the "Bad Kids" corner and have a "time-out." Ha.

Also, maybe each poster should have a limit on the number of unique threads they can start....just a thought.

Anyway, I'm sure I'll just be so very popular after this thread.... sigh.

Blah, blah blah..... JMHO

@jamm54 .I'll have to check the book out.I have been working in one form or another positions that have extensive "customer service" duties. It never ceases to amaze me how bad people can be.
(I used to be an FA so you can imagine how many people we would come into contact in one day alone). And not all were well behaved.
"Fight Club" as a mode to blow off steam. Sounds good in theory,but I think a bully is a bully and they delight in a interactive fight.Don't know if the tormentor would be content with just ranting and raving in a room alone or step outside alone. But,it is funny to think you'd have to initiate a time out room for unruly posters!

.....Oy, Laurie B. I hope you still feel that way now!!

(I've got my "anti-rotten-vegetable" shields up for the torch-wielding villagers on their way here right now.... )

@Dry Manhattan. Don't worry,you've probably got more than a few defenders on here to "watch your back".
We all have our real lives(offline) and that visiting this site here is like taking an extended coffee break.If it isn't pleasant and enriching then we can always move on to another location.
I think you did the wisest thing by choosing to ignore the troll that was hurling barbs at you. That was a mature thing to do on your part DryM. You realized you didn't speak the same language and choose to not participate. I think these posters get more upset when you won't play their game and spar with them. I myself will turn the other cheek because i know they want to get a response out of me and it's a big waste of my time to do so. Anyway,I'll continue to enjoy reading your posts and several others.I savor the good and ignore the nasty posts.

I love you Dry Manhattan, and appreciate your courage to stand up for someone where I cannot. Not because I think what they're doing is right or acceptable, but I do think your defending someone is tremendously laudable. I just don't have much left for that.

I have been "fighting" with family/beneficiaries for three years now through two deaths and two estates, so I'm pretty bottomed out. It's "over" now (though the 2nd estate and house have not wrapped up). Everyone now realizes they're not going to inherit $25,000 or $250,000 so they've all cooled down. No hidden Picassos, gold bullion or anything to covet - thank god.

Besides, it's been quite a hoot to discover children of other "javelin throwing" mothers!

......madmanfan4ever....How sweet - thanks! I was trying to be nice and make friends with humor, and boy, did THAT backfire.

I thought it was funny. It sounded funny in my head.....

......jamm.....Oh that's what I was going to say!

No, seriously! Every day, I see the various posts, am continually blown away in so many ways, and just like someone on here I won't embarass ;) go, "I JUST LOVE THESE GUYS!!" You guys are the real deal, and as much as I love my friends, I have never met anyone like you.

One thought about this forum.....whatever I am or am not right now, has a lot to do with the other people here, and being able to bounce off them, and see myself through their eyes. This is very important, it has made me want to change some things I didn't even know needed changing, and I feel grateful that I'm not too bone-headed to "get" it. Other people are going through changes too, and are doing that both through the Mad Men series, and each other. I wonder what on earth Matt Weiner thinks of THAT? Who knew?

It occurred to me now that I come here for a lot more than just a distraction (and procrastinating!). I think the people on here make me a better person in a bunch of different ways that I wasn't so much before, and I have learned a lot about respect and maturity. I realize now that is a big part of why I am here, and I am grateful to the "elders" for putting up with me throughout Mr. Toad's Wild Emotional Ride.

What I valued the most before the Emmys was gathering with people who know each other in small and big ways, and evolving together. I guess I feel protective of it, and it's painful to watch that being trampled and corrupted.

To be fair, I've said before this group is not like other forums that I know of...the culture is pretty subtle and refined, and takes a while to both "get it," and then to want to fall in with it, if at all. Again, I'd be the first one to defend a person's reasons for being here, but the negative thing is destructive, as we've seen very well.

What I'm getting at here, in a roundabout way, is I wish more people would speak up in a nice but firm way in defense of this wonderful culture. If more people did that, the culture would go that way, wouldn't it? It doesn't have to be ugly, does it? Or am I just being big dumb-ass Pollyanna?

Like, maybe ignoring "them" to death really ISN'T enough.......I can't help thinking if more people stepped up - AT THE TIME IT'S HAPPENING - in a nice, but firm way, the outcome would be very different. Like a naughty puppy you're trying to paper train.

Okay, here come the veggies!!

.....hagen....There are two "Nora" threads on here, which are now in retirement.

@Dry Manhattan. Yeah,I've been in your shoes before,just not on this board but IRL. Sometimes you try to be witty and kill em with kindness and still end up with egg on your face.
Just got to roll with it.Kudos to you for defending Miss Nora. Noone should be taking her task,especially in light of what she's been going through. Good for you to challenge the troll and set em straight!

.....jamm....hagen....madmenfan4ever..... Please don't take this that I am trying to villify this person as wholly good or bad. We all know there is no such thing and, in fact, every person on here has something really good and valuable inside them, even the jerk-offs.

This person is relatively new and didn't KNOW Nora or her story, OR the refined culture of this board.

That's what I'm saying - new people don't KNOW this culture.... it wouldn't be untoward for us to promote that as much as a few new people promote their own sense of entitlement.

I like jamm's / greytone's / my idea of a detailed disclaimer up front, for anyone registering a new name. If you don't conciously "expect" something from someone, chances are fair you're not going to get it.

Oh God, I am really digging my grave here.

'Nuff said!!!

I thought I was kind of doing that in answering mctwisty here because the feedback early on from another poster was pretty negative.

In my mind, this was an example where I could answer one way (civil, polite) vs someone else's way (insulting, put-downish) when this thread started.

Granted, the topic headline was posted with negative language, and the question was written in even more insulting inflammatory language. Pretty much an "invite" to fight.

Generally, I don't bother when I "see" that kind of tone in the headline or the content of the question because IT IS AN INVITATION TO FIGHT already. The tone has been set by the poster.

I guess I was feeling in a strong enough mood to keep my cool, was bored, and had the energy to give it a whirl. But as you can see, we haven't once talked about the series, the characters, the plotlines or anything else relating to MadMen - just evidence that these kind of topics are not about the series but about the poster. So.....it's an indulgence of them, wearing to the soul, and hasn't been about MadMen at all.

Dry Manhattan...thanks. I'll read them. when I 'see' her, I'll pass on my condolences.

btw, chin up everyone, you're all awesome and do indeed have fans1

whoops, ....fans!

I have not posted with my usual regularity or vulgarity due to the immature and cruel hostility that has overcome this forum in the past few weeks. Duh-it's just a TV show (albeit the best TV show ever). A curse upon you know-it-alls, trollers and vultures that have slithered around our precious forum of late. I will go back at you when you insult me, my character or that I enjoy my life despite its ups and downs. I will go back at you doubly if you attack a fellow Maddict. Troller fools, don't even think about dissing our Nora!! The backlash of karma will consume your life. You are all mean, mean, mean and I'd hate to be living your lives. You are pathetic and ignorant in every way.

I understand that Dry has run short of veg shields (hee, hee) so beware I'm a sniper when it comes to the perfect retort.

Also, a point to take into consideration and not completely fault the negative communication style that has been appearing more and more lately is how did it develop?

Think of all the examples these days that both sets examples of, and encourages, flippant, almost brutal communication styles. It's on the reality tv programs, YouTube, Facebook, and a whole host of other mediums of communication. Not difficult to see why this "style" of communicating has grown over the last decade or so. It's everywhere, and applauded as sharp, smart, "witty", etc. at the cost of truly understanding the impact it has on others.

Obviously, as we've seen by other posters' reactions, people are not unfeeling or immune or bulletproof in not experiencing hurt feelings, humiliation and anger at being "talked" to in this style.

And Dry Manhattan, you will always have my friendship and support. I might even brave an attack on you (if I can take it). So, sit back, drink a hard lemonade, play some music, put on some comedy DVDs, and re-charge. Always another day (and no, you're not allowed to disappear from the forum at this stage - the book club on Nov 16 - remember?).

I'll be posting a vote topic on Friday.

.....jamm, I know some of what you are going through....been through it in different ways also. You really learn a lot about human nature, don't you? Javelins, huh? Haven't heard that one before! You should write a book about the whole experience, and I'm very serious about that.

There's this nagging quote in the back of my mind that drives me every day, including the ones where I'd rather give up....(and this is a pop-quiz for anyone coming up with the origin).

It goes, "We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be."

The guardian angel of my life lived this until her last breath and beyond, so I got to see it up close and personal, and be inspired by it.

....madmenfan4ever.....(egg-scraping noises.....)

I always liked Glenn Close's words to Robert Redford in "The Natural":

"I believe we have two lives: the life we learn from, and the life we live after."

The "javelin throwing" was metaphorical. It's still the waffle iron, pots and pans, dishes, and whatnot for my mother. She stuck to the kitchen utensils!

......Yay it's RH64! I was just wondering where you were this morning.... Seems like a lot of people are MIA right now.

Your post is funny and passionate and fierce and very RH64. You're a good friend.

Honestly, though? I really don't think the person had any idea how the comment would come across, is probably a great person and a great writer, and is probably crying in their martini right now, especially after reading all this.

There is that Chinese proverb I heard forever, and have learned the hard, HARD way here, which is, "One word spoken in anger is worth a thousand moments of sorrow."

That is so damned true, at least for me. My foot loves to live in my mouth. In addressing a trollish act, I wouldn't want to become a troll myself. It's a whole pendulum thing.

It seems like a lot of people have been intimidated by the Brave New World that has rushed the forum since the Emmys, and it's not right that you or anyone else feels censored.

We'll have to work on that....just keep chipping away.

By the way, remind me NOT to get you mad! Heee!

jamm you are so right-there is nothing funny or witty about it. Can you believe that I actually got a little sad and depressed over this?! I read what some posters said to me (check out what they said if you want) and even though I stuck up for myself (and some Maddicts did for me too), it was just so shocking and abusive. I bet if the cyber bullies had to come face to face with their victims, they'd change their tune real fast. These people who hurt other people are hurting within themselves and I probably should pity them. Depersonalization may be the downfall of our civilization and I sure hope I'm wrong.

I just have to say this and then I am NOT posting again because no matter WHAT I post here, there always seems to be someone who READS something into it, or lambastes me (if this sounds like I am a Martyr, tough!) when I never even ADDRESSED them - or referred to them - in the first place! Here is my point however. Why is it that so many posters here seem to feel the need to continually EXPLAIN themselves (and their almighty position in this screwy community?) as in: "I am not an attacker. I am one who wants peace." Or, "I am part of the old crowd and they are cool and we've been posting forever." Or, "We all try and get along but there are those among us who want to rabble-rouse, just check out their other postings if you don't believe me. I come here in peace because I don't want to fight."
Or, they lament with one another about all they have been through in this life, as in "Nobody knows the trouble I've seen!" Enough of the mutual pity parties! Sheesh!

Who the hell cares?!!!! People post hour after hour about how they only want to come here in peace and love and what ever other crap they sling, and they can't understand why all this fighting is going on and blah, blah, blah. Or, about how they empathize with some other dreary poster who tells us he or she has been through hell and knows what life is all about. (My guess is that by the time everyone reaches middle age, they have experienced a good dose of life and frankly, if yours was all that interesting they would do a show about IT. Unless Hollywood calls, assume it isn't.) The topics become so far removed from Mad Men (the actual fictional show) it isn't funny! And then everyone explains themselves over and over and over again. Frankly, AMC should start the "Let's all whine and cry about our difficult lives forum," and just skip the Mad Men forum altogether. I think people come to lament, whine, cry, fight, badger, and generally one-up everyone else. If your life has been that hellish, perhaps you need a QUALIFIED therapist with whom to speak. Last night some poster l(who claimed he wanted only peace and never wanted to argue) did nothing but argue and ram his point down everyone's throat (he is here today doing the SAME thing!); furthermore, after I AGREED with him, he STILL continued to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, until I finally signed off. For all I know he has been here on this site since last night posting non-stop. There HAS to be something better to do than this, and I am now going to find it!

Redhead64: I think alot of people get sad and depressed over the communication styles on the internet, even those who don't realize that they're communicating negatively. Then you see their hurt and defensiveness. The internet is really a learning curve on communication, and many have not learned how harsh it can sound without your face or voice to give it the intonation that you mean.

And then, there are others who know exactly how they're coming across and revel in it. You can imagine what they're like in person - yikes! Ah hang there, like every thing, we're seeing a small percentage of the population in here. There are SO many good, sweet and wonderful posters on the forum - and the choice of our focus should be on them and not the others.

.....jamm you said......

I thought I was kind of doing that in answering mctwisty here

You absolutely were....I didn't mean to insinuate that you weren't.... can't think of anyone more qualified either.

But as you can see, we haven't once talked about the series, the characters, the plotlines or anything else relating to MadMen - just evidence that these kind of topics are not about the series but about the poster. So.....it's an indulgence of them, wearing to the soul, and hasn't been about MadMen at all.

It is, but paradise wasn't free, either. That damned apple. Humans - whaddya gonna do?

It doesn't bother me when topics stray into other areas, including personal ones. Maybe I'm just nosey or the curious cat, but I love peeling the layers and seeing each one underneath, especially if I like the people.

You said something about how did it get this way..... all dysfunction lives because of enablement, which I guess is kind of the gist of my thoughts today.

Just like the re-tooling of this forum - say nothing now, you might get changes you never wanted, and forever hold your peace.

Thanks to all you guys for the support and validation - damn, that is sweet!

Dry - In no way are you a "dumb-ass Pollyanna"! I love that you want people to post with civility and kindness, and I think you are brave for fighting for it. Yeah, you're gonna face some backlash, but it's for a good cause. :)

jamm, redhead, dry manhattan, and all the regulars, so good to see you all again, as we all have enjoyed many weeks of fun in these forums. too bad the next episode is this season's last.

and if clayton is reading this, we all appreciate you, man!

Oh Dry, you've brought a tear to my eye (seriously).

I shall remain the defender of the MM faith and don the esteemed crown of the Superc**t I am!

Yes I am going to hell and will enjoy traveling there on a first class ticket via Draper Airways.

FYI: My bitch code for those who are interested. Very few people are privy to this manifesto:

Fantastic Bitch: the gal who will stand up for you, and never say I told you so. She'll bail you out of jail and keep her mouth shut about it. Fantastic Bitches exceed their goals and change the world for the better (examples: Peggy Olson, redhead64).

Fu**ing Bitch: the gal who will steal your husband and make you feel like it was your fault. She'll take credit for your work and get the raise you deserved. Derives a sadistic pleasure in demoting your self esteem to cover her own insecurity. Tells you that you need to diet when you're already thin as a rail(examples: Liz Taylor during the Eddie Fisher scandal, my mean sister, a few former college roommates).

Superc**nt: What a Fantastic Bitch becomes when a Fu**ing Bitch goes too far (no examples needed; speaks for itself).

Feel free to share your Fantastic Bitch, Fu**ing Bitch and/or Superc**nt experiences with me! Spread the word to one and all.

....There are plenty of threads on this forum. Surely you can find one that doesn't piss you off or bore the crap out of you. You don't need to come here and start bashing everyone.

There are PLENTY of mannerly, respectful younger posters on here who don't seem to have your vehement issues.

You feel defensive, and that's normal, just like jamm was saying. No one is immune to that. However, now that you have this out of your system, it would be a relief for everyone if you could just play nice.

See, the thing is, most of the posters on this forum are HERE because if they wanted to hang out on PerezHilton.com with a bunch of illiterate, savage trolls, they would.

But they don't. They come here, put in their valuable time and their best thoughts and feelings. Until some T-Rex comes along and mashes it flat.

Sorry, but these people are not going away, and this really is a big part of the forum. If this forum doesn't suit your taste, you can always find another, or start your own where everyone is your age, says what you want them to say, and you can abuse and insult and disrespect all the posters you want. I guess my question to you at this point is, why ARE you here - really? There are DOZENS of MM forums.....

Your other option, as I said in the VERY FIRST post, is to stay here, have some manners and SKIP THE THREADS OR POSTS YOU DON"T LIKE.

With all due respect, you can speak your mind this way all you want - it's a public forum - but don't expect to have any friends here.

As to the trials of life, no one gets a free ride. You just haven't gotten there yet.

Enjoy it while you can.

.....PeteandTrudy....I believe your "nemesis" from yesterday is The Unnamed Troll, and no one but no one gets near that person without getting burned so you are in very good company.

Calling Dr. Freud!!

The fact is, "haters" don't need a reason. The hate IS their fuel, and they create their own reasons, even if none exist. You have to decide for yourself where you fall on either side of this point. (Don't be one of them.)

Look at it this way - would you honestly hate it if people were showering you with acceptance and appreciation and friendship? Only if you're crazy, and I don't think you're crazy.

Please take a page from the wiser (not me) on this forum and try staying. The point here is to bring in and keep great people, not to censor and close the discussions down and drive them away.

I'm done. (For now!)

Dry you're not "done", you're just refreshing your "beverage" . . . .

.....OMG RH64....I am rolling and screaming. I know you guys hate it when I say that, but I always considered myself a super hard sell when it comes to humor and this place never stops with the funny. That was brilliant!

Now, since coming here, my neighbors all think I'm insane, because I sit in here by myself and loudly cackle and hoot.

PeteandTrudy (well, which one are you!).... Agreed on the therapy thing.

So? What's your story?

hanna....wah-wah-waaaaahhhhhhhh!!

....Hey boca!

DryManhattan: Stopped into say, I have no clue who the "Unnamed Troll" is, but he or she seems to be everywhere at once! Really, I guess I am not quite as into these boards as others might be (and that's fine for them), but I think this place can eat up so much time that I am not tending to what I should be. Unlike you, I am not that interested in other people's personal lives (whether they are looking for a shoulder to cry on, or a friendly ear for their troubles, or whatever), and I respect that you get more into this part of the equation (at least you stated you liked to "peel away layers," but it does absolutely nothing for me. I think live chats are probably better (there is a great one on, of all places, Comcast, and the moderator is terrific, tolerating no trolls of any type!). The chat is strictly limited to discussions of the most recent MM episode and is limited to one hour. In this way, everyone who is able to join in can do so, and thus say what they need to about MM, and then the chat is shut down. I think these boards just go on and on and on, and it becomes way too much of what was once a good thing. Again, I am not one that likes the "game players" at all (now here I am explaining MYSELF, something I accused others of doing), and I know full well there are people who live for that sort of thing. Anyway, hope you enjoy the last episode, but I am out (or at least off this thread). Cheers.

Dry, you helped me get my mojo back. Been thinking about a very drastic life change, so some humor certainly helps out.

Hi boca, it's been awhile.

Redhead 64 ...and all other oldies......You all say you are going to ignore the trolls but you don't. Specifically read your post..."you are all mean, mean, mean, and pathetic and ignorant." Is that how a person "plays nice"?

This is what you just said:
"I have not posted with my usual regularity or vulgarity due to the immature and cruel hostility that has overcome this forum in the past few weeks. Duh-it's just a TV show (albeit the best TV show ever). A curse upon you know-it-alls, trollers and vultures that have slithered around our precious forum of late. I will go back at you when you insult me, my character or that I enjoy my life despite its ups and downs. I will go back at you doubly if you attack a fellow Maddict. Troller fools, don't even think about dissing our Nora!! The backlash of karma will consume your life. You are all mean, mean, mean and I'd hate to be living your lives. You are pathetic and ignorant in every way.
I understand that Dry has run short of veg shields (hee, hee) so beware I'm a sniper when it comes to the perfect retort."

You have called me a troll when I was only expressing my opinion and you didn't agree with me. So what if a person gets frustrated or repeats a question already answered? If you don't like it, ignore it. I am not yelling at you. Just trying to talk reason to you and the others who make such judgements. LIVE & LET LIVE

....PeteandTrudy.....YES, HE DOES. Does that TELL you anything here? The internet is sometimes a haven for those who can't mainstream.

So, okay. That's your position and I am not qualified to criticize, but I don't backpeddle either. I didn't hear a whole lot of respect in there. In this case, a whole lot of shutting up probably would have done the trick. Like I said, there are a million freaking threads - you don't have to surf around for A-bombs.

I respect your position, your intelligence and your writing ability, but not your behavior. You have continually hurt people on here that don't deserve it. I assert once again that it appears you are spending too much time on the wrong forum.

You are correct when you say this forum repeats itself over, and over and over.

That's what life IS. A circle.

Some people are on one place of the path, and others on another, but ultimately, it's the same damned path, and we ALL travel it, passing each other, and catching up with each other.

If you are lucky, you make a friend or two along the way.

As I said, there are dozens of MM sites - why come here and make the people who FORMERLY felt at home here feel like shit? What exactly is your attraction to this board?

.....WHOA!!! nmkay.....What's going on?

We can leave you guys alone, but Holy Crap - can't we all just get along?

I like you both so much......

God, nobody's perfect. Personally, I need that silver duct tape over my mouth AND hands at all times. So far, no tar and feathers, but it's dicey on a daily basis!!

Trust me, the best thing now is for us all to go into our corners, lick our wounds, and spank ourselves for our part in this.

(You know, like grown-ups.)

Dry - LOL. Yes, a little self flagellation will make this mess all better! Maybe we all need a little break from the forum and the tension here. I'm sick of reading the nasty things people are saying to each other. Take care!

....hanna....heee.....works for me - ):P

....dude, you are so cool!

hanna.....did you have a palliative measure in mind?

i sense your motivations are less than pure?

Heh he heh..... Father Gil, calling!

You should have heeded and respected while you had the chance!

Dry - LOL What a dirty mind you have! Of course my motivations were pure ... they always are. ;)

And we can leave Father Gil out of this - I don't think he's much fun.

This thread is so hilarious I just pulled a Freddy Rumsen in my pants.

My to-do list for early morning 10/22/08:

1. Wake up.
2. Take dogs out to tinkle.
3. Remind to nmkay to remove bug from her ass.*

*suggestion will likely be an exercise in futility.

.....I don't know hanna.....From the next episode previews, it almost looks like Father Gil is going all "night stalker" on Peggy...

They show him telling her he felt that she was the one calling him to that parish.

Curious if he is going to declare some deep feeling for Peggy or what.... in the scene they showed, he did look a little fraught.

Lucky Strike....Glad someone's having fun. I've always wondered why you are Lucky Strike and not Old Gold.....

Bring on the dress trouser zipper Mozart concerto.

@redhead64.OMG, I'm sitting here reading this thread and read your to do list.....it cracked me up. Keep up with the great sense of humor,it definitely lights up the day.
@DryManhattan. Whew! Sounds like you've been busy having to play defense and offense since yesterday afternoon.
I'm sorry that you've received the brunt of some nasty posters here on the MM forum.You should console yourself that those creeps are in the minority here,you have made some friends and allies and maybe they are just jealous because you write well and quite expressively.
I've only been "flamed" on here once,by a newbie. It came out of left field and she ranted on me all in upper case.I did defend myself and attempted to clarify my viewpoint,but she left the thread never to return.
o.k. back to Mad Men. I don't look forward to another eppy with Father Gill trying to "save" Peggy and bring her back into the fold. I suppose the writer's had to bring em back
to resolve that storyline.I hope Peggy continues to deflect his attempts like she did the last time. He reminds me of a pesky little fly that you have to swat all the time!

madmenfan4ever; thanks for making my day so early in the day-I truly appreciate it!
I say we all have great material to work with.

Addition to to do list:

4. Pass the humor on forward.

DryManhattan: You asked why I am on this board and it's to try and figure out why it is YOU seem to need to play both sides of the street (you know, those little games people play thing). You seem as though you're just dying to play doctor here and on other threads; or at least dying to play the big peace negotiator. (Oh brother!) Oh, I know, YOU HAVE been in therapy, right?! No wait, you really need it, that's the story. On another post you got really snotty (well, hey, as you say, nobody's perfect, huh!), and it's obvious you like speak out of both sides of your mouth. Anyway, that's why I am here, to tell you these things. LOLOLOL. Bye, Dry.

@redhead64. yes a little levity never hurts anyone. Keep on doin what your doin....me thinks it funny!

Dry, my friend, it's time you switch to dirty martinis. Or you can swig catus juice with me. :)

Had a sobering morning-many a client on the verge of foreclosure and being out on the street with NOTHING so this humor is therapy for me.

FYI- I do NOT drink on the job just so you all know that.

All this has given me a wicked thirst. I'm passing around the virtual cocktail tray. What will you have? It's a host bar, of course.

Afternoon to-do list:

1. take dogs out to tinkle.
2. return client phone calls & emails.
3. remind Peteandtrudy, on behalf of Dry Manhattan, to immediately remove pole from ass.*

*suggestion will, without a doubt, be an exercise in futility.

*for clarity purposes, the ass from which the pole is to be removed belongs to Peteandtrudy not Dry Manhattan.

@flowerpower: I'll have a Cuervo margarita on the rocks with salt and extra lime with an extra shot of Cuervo on the side. Any bacon wrapped scallops to eat?

I'll also need earplugs & eyeshields for when Peteandtrudy's pole and nmkay's bug are removed.

Cheer up-it's not Wedenesday it's Ass-day!

Was over on another thread (just too many to keep up with) and a poster named "Cad Men" stated that it was a shame these threads could not be used for better purposes. In reading upwards on this one, I am confused and sickened. Also, I think a poster on another thread - Cad Men - is right, when he or she stated these boards could be used for much better purpose. Anyway, this here is like a bunch of little kids in a playpen who have nothing much to say - or stressed out adults who have run out of meaningful dialogue and are turning into a Lord of the Flies group - and just want to be stupid and nasty and degrading. It's nothing but a bunch of inside jokes and people telling others to drink martinis or cactus juice (huh?), and someone else telling us she doesn't drink on the job (I'm sure we are all relieved by that validation or whatever it was), someone else adding to a list or something, someone saying they pulled a "Freddy Rumson," or other crude comments, someone telling someone else what life is about (a circle or something), and generally just being as cryptic, vulgar and nasty as they can get. What does this have to do with Mad Men? This is a truly weird and depressing place. Not my bag at all. I'll leave you to it.

Addition to afternoon to-do list: remind TBOE to remove Grand Canyon from her ass.*

*suggestion will, without a doubt, be an exercise in futility.

It's Ass-day in RH64's world-you betcha TBOE!

....PeteandTrudy.....I have given you the benefit of the doubt over and over, and have tried to make you into a friend.

This is a wonderful board, with wonderful, sophisticated people. You are a mentally unstable troll, plain and simple, and have no place here.

At this point I consider you 100% toxic, and completely useless on this board. Push me harder and see what happens.

And, by the way, keep your analysis to yourself. You are the last person on this entire forum who is qualified to analyze anyone.

......AMC......There needs to be a LIMIT on the number of unique threads that one poster can start. We have SEVERAL duplicates, and several frivolous "duds."

The way around that would be for a poster to assume several different names, and possibly using different e-mails to hide that fact.

Just sayin'.....

.....madmanfan4ever (that takes forever to type!).....There is a long line of logic to this whole thing, but I'll have to tell you about it later.

@DryManhattan. I know,I know my screen name isn't the most original one and it's a tad bit long....but I'm too lazy to change it to something shorter with more pizazz.
Looks like RH64 covered your back by throwing a couple barbs at a pesky troll poster. Hopefully said troll is out of here for good!
I agree that there should be a limit to how many threads a
single poster can start.It is getting clogged up with repetitive threads.
I wish AMC would have the thread topics in Alphabetical order.
If you've checked it out lately it is so long and really hard to find a particular thread. Arggg! I was trying to find Nora Paradisio's thread and could not find it.
Hopefully, things will mellow out and we can go back to everybody's favorite topic of discussion,Mad Men!

.....You kind of hit the nail on the head in some ways....like I said, I will elaborate later.

Suffice to say right now that I HATE when this happens, I do not wish anyone to pit anyone against anyone!!

It's not about this little clique and that little clique, and "we're going to pile it on" this person or that person.

I hate that crap. But I can't stand professional trolls, and I've been holding my tongue (fingers?) all this time. More later on that.

And, I know, I feel like I am always chasing my tail, trying to figure out where I've been. People probably think I am dissing them or forgetting to reply or whatever. I'm not getting anything else done, and I still can't keep up!

And you're right. I think I've gotten a little over-involved, but it's been a learning experience.

Thanks for your post - I feel better!

....Oh, and if you wanted to view the Nora threads, just click on "View List of All Talk Topics" and then hit Alt+E, then F, and type "Nora" in the "find" field.

hey Dry, I must confess my true feelings for you as I am unable contain my affection for you any longer:

Your posts are the most articulate and creative on this forum. Your wit, satire and occasional sarcasm would give Twain, Swift and Keith Olberman a run for their money. You are welcoming to all who access this forum. When you say in some of your posts that you are laughing, I truly feel the laughter to the point of having a Rumsen.

You do not need therapy-for some of us, including me, you ARE the therapy.

Keep kicking troll-ass 'cause today's not just Wednesday it's Ass-day!

@DryMann. Hey thanks a bunch for the thread tip.It is exasperating trying to find a specific one.Now you told me how and I am grateful.I was over on open thread and a newbie with no sense of humor (scroll up a little to the poster who replied to RD64 @12:28 today) has reported the dialogue on this thread to AMC. I guess this poster was offended by the "vulgarity" (their words,not mine)and was hacked off enough to want to go to Clayton at AMC and complain.
Geesh, I read the above posts and Redhead64 was just being her funny,witty self. Apparently, the poster was also taken aback by the references to drinking cactus juice,martini's.
It's pretty pathetic when some folks are so easily offended when no harm was intended.
o.k. keep your head up,tomorrow is another day and you can fill me in at a later date.need to finish stuff up here at work.

.....Oh my God, RH64....That is an unbelievable compliment! I'm not worthy I'm not worthy!!

Of the million things to say right now, that you "feel" me is the best compliment ever. On reading all these superb posts, I truly am laughing my ass off, and sometimes crying unexpectedly, too. That it comes through and you get it, I guess that's a big deal..... thank you so much.

There are more inspiring posts than I can possibly cover. I wish I were twins so we could both read and write!

I've missed the "friends" a whole lot these past two or three weeks, so it's great to see people coming together again.... (deep breath here!)

Thank you again!

TBOE is a tattletale and I posted as such on that open thread. Do you think the AMC authorities will lock me in a closet like little Sally Draper and put this on my permanent record? Should I retain legal counsel? And what's wrong with cactus juice anyway?!

My husband just came home from work and I showed him all this. He is laughing so hard he almost "Rumsen"ed himself.

....Oh yeah, does this mean we're going steady?

HA ha haaa!
(Think Phyllis Diller)

Dry, Your writing is fantastic and creative. Yes you are worthy. To infinity worthy.

.....RH64....I don't know, but this is still America, free speech and all. Merely being outspoken is different from being antagonistic, and is an important distinction.

There is a LOT of brawling going on with the influx of new people, and I've been keeping my mouth shut for a couple of weeks, just to see what would happen.

Well, it happened.

I don't know how it's dealt with on other forums, but I don't really think anyone inadvertently drawn into a conflict during this time should be penalized unless it's clear their only motive is malignant. Particularly someone who is liked with a good track record. It's been a barroom free-for-all, as well as an almost ideal sociological experiment.

I have never seen this person TBOE before yesterday. Pretty presumptuous for a new person to come here and start throwing their weight around, especially as their only motive for being on this thread is to tattle.

I feel so bad I don't have better suggestions for the traffic flow on this forum, but I guess that's what the IT guys at AMC get paid for, right?

to Dry Manhattan and redhead64. keep the comments a rolling. I about laughed my -ss off when RD64 was stickin it to the trolls earlier today with her "to do" list.
Both of you ladies are truly originals and have lots of insightful things to say. In addition to discussing Mad Men there is also a lot of entertainment value on here and I do appreciate a good laugh!
Yes, you've been outed to the thought police by a humorless troll. I'm sure they'll see the complaint for what it is:a childish whiner who probably isn't suited for internet debate.(I'm being very polite here)

.....I feel like throwing a baked chicken off the balcony.

When you toss, please let me know. With careful positioning, I can avoid serving my beagles their evening kibble. But if it's shake & bake please don't toss-it tastes too good.

I have had the best day today-best day in a long time-thank you all-even the trollers!

just re-read everything on this thread since last night, whew! oh my!
thanks for keeping the lighthearted banter, redhead64, madmanfan4ever, and Dry Manhattan.....in my not so humble opinion, you're saying it all, and with humor. it's what makes me keep reading!

keep on!

This thread is too long to read - how are we supposed to read the open thread? If AMC doesn't want open threads, they can change the format around to not allow them.

.....RH64....Oh, and Happy Ass Day.

Wow, just read preteandtrudy. What the heck's been going on around here? Gee, I once said on a thread that, yes I'm older, but also happy with my life. I even go outside every day to look at the trees and sun just to remind myself how good life really is while you are still around to enjoy it. Apparently preteandtrudy is going to find something better to do because she doesn't like us all whining, especially the older ones.

.....Hi tangfl....Long time no see - where ya been?

Dry: et tu re Happy Ass Day.

tangfl: Happy Ass Day to you too!

Dry, redhead, et al ...

I go to work and miss out on all the fun! :( I can kind of see how a newbie might be turned off by a thread like this that is full of inside jokes and conversations between friends (like joining a party already in progress when you don't know anybody else), but that's too bad. What's wrong with the OT postings when it's all in fun and distraction? Nothing. Keep it up Maddicts!

redhead - You are sassier than every today and it's cracking me up! I'd hate to be a cyber-fight with you!

Doh! I meant sassier than ever today. I need to use the preview button! :P

....Hi hanna.....I know what you are saying, for sure, but the thing is, all the people on here were new at some point, too, and went through that.

We hung around, were (mostly) well-behaved, and eventually made friends. Isn't that how it's done all over? And anyway, it's not like this isn't the nicest, most welcoming (mostly) bunch of people. A lot of people on here make a point of it, and it's great.

I don't know, but I don't think the jokes are that inside, at least where I hang out....aren't they mostly kind of created on the spot? Not sure....

I wasn't over on that other thread where they were duking it out so I should not stick my nose where it doesn't belong. I just hate seeing people I like foaming at the mouth (including me!)....

I just don't get new people who show up, start mouthing off how they feel left out, don't like this or that person or feature of the website, start ragging on other posters, etc., on their first and second days!!

It is a complicated show and a complicated forum and takes DAYS to get the whole scope of this board and the people on here. Geez. Give it some time!!

Hi Dry! Totally agree. Maybe some posters aren't used to message boards and don't know the etiquette (not so different from everyday life, really) or just don't know how to socialize w/out causing drama.

I think there is something to the fact that when you're blogging, you aren't having a face-to-face conversation where you can see the other person and "read" their facial expressions and other non-verbal cues or a conversation on the phone where you can at least hear the tone of their voice. Sometimes I cannot tell if people are being sarcastic, angry, or just mean on this blog, so I usually don't respond to those I don't understand.

New posters do just need to take their time and be mellow as they enter our little world - insulting people right off the bat is a BIG turn off. And the more experienced posters do best when they're friendly and patient (and ignore the repeated questions). Weren't we all a newbie at one point?

I just wish everyone would get along! Now I sound like the dumb-ass Pollyanna! LOL

hanna, you do not sound like a dumb-ass Pollyanna!

I've only been on this site for a couple of weeks, and it IS hard to get your bearings and find what threads interest you, and it IS taking time to 'get' the personalities and insights of each of the posters, but that's what I like! just like the show, it's unfolding s l o w l y!

at this point, I'm starting to know which ones I really like to read [you, hanna, being one of them!], and I try to keep up with these threads as much as I have time to.
so, fun!

must admit, that there is a little thrill out of someone saying 'yes, I get it!'
:)

....Not at all! It's just common sense, like you said, and really not brain surgery.

The cultural setpoint on this board is actually pretty harmonious, and fighting that rather than falling in with that is where I think people make the big mistake.

Like you said, just "chill, watch, read, be nice, post good and have fun."

....Sorry, that was replying to hanna's post.....the way it came down it looks like I am saying "no" to hagen.

hagen / hanna - you are "old school" now!!

hi hanna: Happy Ass Day!

I love the nice newbies-they bring freshness to our forum. So open the door and join in on the inside jokes and shenanigans of the MM universe!

I so enjoy getting my silly on! My inner child and I are going to take a long bath and go to sleep. Nite all!

Dry, please keep the party going whilst I rest. :)

thanx, Dry...awww.

getting my silly on...bwaahh haha ha!

hagen - Thanks! I've been on the threads since mid-summer, and it did take me a few weeks to figure out the personalities of the regular posters. Some people you can joke with, some you ignore. Most are very nice.

Dry - I certainly feel 'old school' at this point. I'm glad I can remember back when there wasn't so much fighting. If I was a newbie just joining the forum at this point, I might be scared off!

I think this old phrase my mother always says sums it up: "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

Just be nice and people will respond in kind.

hanna: I too see why a newbie or even an "oldie" might finally tire of the so called witty repartee. It's fine for those who seem to thrive on it but not all do. Some do like to talk about MM. Like me. Anyway, no offense to anyone just my thoughts.

......Has anyone heard from Glamara lately???

Also, check it out - zerelda is back for a visit....

On 10/20 @3:41 PM... from Mary Jane to our co-blogger whose sensibilities were offended by copious "threads"?!:

Thanks, M.J. Your very appropriate yet firm and polite response was dead on.

I just so happen to agree...

On 10/20 @3:41 PM... from Mary Jane to our co-blogger whose sensibilities were offended by copious "threads"?!:

Thanks, M.J. Your very appropriate yet firm and polite response was dead on.

I just so happen to agree...

....This is probably totally unreasonable, but it would be great if the heavy-duty profanity and vulgarity could be weeded out before it hits the forum....there are a couple of really offensive posters on here this week. That guy with the rude name seems to be here for only one reason.

Also, there is one unstable person on here who may be using three or more names, and when one wears out, they just jump to the next one and keep on with the abuse.

Can these people be tracked through their URLs rather than e-mail addresses? (Right now all they have to do is use a bunch of different e-mails to avoid detection.)

Most people on the forum are so polite and respectful, these one or two scary ones make the others VERY uncomfortable and it is a REAL thread-killer and also a morale-buster.

Sorry - don't mean to sound ungrateful or demanding - just not sure how it all works behind the scenes.

Anyway, just some thoughts. As always, thanks for everything!

.....Sorry, where it says "URL," that should be "IP address."

Thanks.

here, here look at all the comments you made besides the open thread is too open unless I don't know how to use it, your comment gets lost and people can;t reply directly to each other. So where do you see AMC slapping our wrists like that? Is there a directions section?

I was horrendously busy this week so I'm stumbling back to MM. I saw this thread and immediately thought that AMC must absolutely love that MM generates all this interest....and therefore lots of threads. I'd think it would make the producers a bit nervous if there wasn't a flurry of activity going on here.
I must say that I have not been "trolled" since the abrupt departure of the infamous "Peggy Sue", or else I've just developed thicker skin? Anyway, I enjoy reading other people's opinions about the show and the characters and the scenes. If I'm uncomfortable with a topic, I just find another one. I also think it's OK to throw in a bit of personal history because that is what usually forms an opinion. This is a really interesting forum, but you'll always have the trolls. I guess that just goes with the territory. Sometimes I think the more you pay attention to them, the more they like the attention so they just keep up the rude behavior. Although, it is fun to slam 'em back! LOL!

Hey Dry!

Does anyone have any idea who the multiple-personality troll is? How lame is that to have different usernames and then just flame and go at people?

I have one admirer (see my first "remove from ass" reference above) who sort of started a pattern of "finding" me and quoting me. She totally hates me-like I care at this point--and was apocalypically combative to me from the getgo. She probably thinks I actually look like my userpic! Ha-the jokes on her--wish I did look like like that!

Sorry did not preview.

""like like" is worthy of capital punishment, in the grammar sense of course. :)

redhead 64***
LOL....you are so entertaining and so funny. I really love reading your posts ...Please keep it up. I can'tell you how much I appreciate your sense of humor!
( Still laughing!)

Case in point . . . look just above.