Also, in another topic some of us mentioned that joan may have a prior marriage or "lost love" in her past...someone she lost to illness and death.

In the preview, joan is shown talking to someone about "if you have lost someone you loved"...maybe we are right!

this show constantly give me insights into my own parents and helps me understand why the women's liberation movement arose. if men were as condescending to women as they are depicted in this show, no wonder women got fed up. my father often said you can't have a conversation with a woman, they have no logic and "can't think in a straight line". no wonder my parents had a lousy marriage.

for someone like joan, she's tired of hearing comments about her looks. what an idiotic thing for the doctor/fiance to say - that he thought all joan did was walk around and have people stare at her. he obviously is not thinking of her as a whole person, but a sex object.

it's childish, unattractive. joan looked turned off by his comment, which he obviously thought was a great compliment - it probably excites him to imagine the other men drooling over joan.

that can't form a basis for a good marriage. sex is great, attraction is wonderful, a man should find his wife sexy and beautiful - but if that's his main focus, the union is doomed.

You're probably right, Boca. I hardly recognized Joan at first, barefoot in slacks, running back and forth waiting on the doctor (a pompous ass). She's too good for that.

This entire episode should have been called "She's Under My Thumb".
Joan: the condescending boyfriend...AND Idiot Harry for overlooking an opportunity to get Joan promoted. Oh wait, Joan is smarter than Harry and we can't have that! She's still a secretary and Harry's job is safe (for now). How I'd love to see Joan undermine that weasel.

Betty: goes without saying....Don being Don. Liar!!

Peggy: Back off, Father Gil. Can't the guy just leave it alone? She's not going to crack, Father! Plus, he pressured her into doing the church project even though she told him she was very busy. Did he listen? No, he just ramrodded his way in by virtue of his priestly self...couldn't care less that she has a REAL job! (Normally, I feel pretty neutral regarding Peggy...but this Father guy is annoying!)

Joan needs to dump the Doc! Dude's in the same camp as Tilden Katz, but has much less charm than Rachel's hubby!

yeah, at least tilden was personable, a nice guy, and kind to his wife. didn't seem to need to boss her around.

i know where visan is going with this...she wants rachel to dump tilden, and for don and rachel to start up again!

Boca: Actually, I'd never want Rachel married to a slut like Don! He's too guttersnipe for her to marry! But a hot one-nighter with Don, just for old times, I'd be down with that! Ha!

And if anyone's seen the preview for the next episode, Rachel, in a most convoluted way, is very much on Don's mind! Ha!

Don is such a cad!

Boca: Actually, I'd never want Rachel married to a slut like Don! He's too guttersnipe for her to marry! But a hot one-nighter with Don, just for old times, I'd be down with that! Ha!

And if anyone's seen the preview for the next episode, Rachel, in a most convoluted way, is very much on Don's mind! Ha!

Don is such a cad!

Visan--Yeah, I caught that in the preview, too. Tempted to provide the spoiler, but, in the interests of letting everyone find out on their own, I'll just say watch the preview for Epi 9--it's proof positive Don's got Rachael on the brain. Like Freud said, "there are no accidents." He also said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar," but in the case of this preview Don's "cigar" is definitely smokin'.

what happend in next week's episode that Don thinks of Rachel. All I saw was that he goes out with the boys to some random street, Betty gives him an ultimatium in which he replies lovingly Whatever you want in which she replies back coldly, You didnt convince me, isnt that your job to convince people to buy something.

I think we need to leave Rachel alone and let her live her life with her loving husband. Her and Don would never work. Don at the first chance he gets will cheat on her, and she will have the balls to leave him. Don is never going to change, not even for fugly Rachel! Shit...even Midge knew that, all she liked to do with Don is have sex, she knew he would never leave Betty. Out of the two, Midge is more street smart, and duh hotter!

Polignac--Watch the preview again. When the guys give their "aliases" to get admitted into some sleazy joint, Don gives the alias "Tilden Katz." That's the name of Rachael's new hubby. If that isn't a "Freudian slip" I don't know what is. Doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get back together again--I actually don't think they will--it's just that he still has her on his mind. She's "the one who got away"--much too classy and too much integrity to put up with Don's shennanigans, no matter how good looking or how good he is in the sack.

Was it just me, or was Joan talking differently at home, almost childlike. Even when talking to Harry about reading the scripts. Am I imagining it, or has she been beaten down by Sterling? And yes, she was really stung by that know nothing kid taking the position she'd been working.

As for the father, there's bound to be more than it appears. I think he's warm for Peggy's form. If not, he needs to back off. Any thoughts on that.

yeah, matthew, joan's voice sounded funny. someone else said, like she'd inhaled helium. when women are subservient, they speak in high-pitched voices (studies prove this), sounding more childlike and non-threatening. so joan was acting more and more submissive and subservient to the doctor. i didn;t notice a higher pitch in the office.

i hope joan goes to roger, figures a way to have herself assigned to the script reviews and meetings, and somehow gets not only a better position and recognition, but also more money!

do you get the impression that joan finds the doctor boring in bed? remember how she was totally distracted while he was pawing on her, but she wanted to watch jackie kennedy?

could it be that roger will bargain with joan: "you can work for the television dept is you also continue managing the secretaries - AND if you go to the plaza hotel with me again"

i predict that she would do it - and tell the doctor to cram his engagement ring (he's apparently still a resident, not earning a lot of money yet - which would also account for his extra long hours and inability to accompany her to evening parties).

joan intends to keep working but he wants her to sit at home. no way!

matt: no it wasn't your imagination, Joan was definitly "playing the edith" (edith bunker) to that pocket corsage finance, mostly when he was asking her to cater to his needs. otherwise i found her relaxed and less on guard. She is very cognizant of her presence at work. Is he at her place or she his? cannot imagine them living together before marriage in that day.

as for harry the idiot supreme! what woman hasn't been in that position, joan defined and executed that job like a pro and that slod didn't even consider her a candidate for the job...but he expects her to teach the new guy everything she knows (that crap happens more times then not gents). now Joan was cut to the quick, but you never let them see you cry. i like how she minimized it and i canbe sure her "helping" him w/details will be just as brief...Frakk 'em!

not sure if she will dump the boyfriend, but there will be trouble ahead if he cant manage to "see & hear" the real joan.

harry is clueless to some extent but that is no excuse in my book...hell don saw potential and i hope joan gets him where it hurts (wouldn't it be nice to have her promoted on top of him—say after a grand misstep and the clients specifically ask for Joan!!!)

also - did you notice the doctor used his own keys to unlock the door to joan's apartment? i don;t think he's living there, however.

oh yeah..lol. thanks. Well maybe he said that because he wanted the name to get back to Rachel and screw things up for her. In full honesty I do like Rachel. I only hate it when people think that she and Don were meant to be together which is bullshit. He told her one story about his childhood and all of sudden people make her out to be a saint and girl who truly gets Don. I didnt get it. What I also didnt get from people on these boards is when Don revealed to Betty that he hated his father and wished for the day that he could kill him, Betty lovingly took him in her arms and whispered to him, "Why didnt you ever tell me this before" so why is it that Rachel gets Don, and Betty doesnt? O'well I guess we will never know. LOVE THE SHOW, LOVE THE CAST, LOVE EVERYTHING!

Bocaratonfan: my man is like this and this is 2008!...

My first love nearly went crazy when I made
a higher test score than he did. He really
felt threatened.

I suppose what I am saying is that these
men are still around today.

Jolie10: Good points..I noticed all of that too...

PodaKayne: Spot on post!
And this doesn't just happen to women in favor of men, but to women in favor of other women.

I am glad to see that she won't actually be
training the guy, that she will hold some
dignity.

But I DO feel sorry for the new guy because
really he is not at fault. It is HARRY who
should have understood not to do this and
frankly I am surprised at him.

I LIKED Harry most of the time first season.

He should understand being overlooked and all.

On the other hand JOAN DID NOT express how
much she liked doing what she did...I wish she
had told them that she hoped to be given such
a position.

But I suppose you didn't do that in those times.
And Harry still should have noticed her ability
and enthusiasm for the work.

bocaratonfan: I really agree. And I hope Rachel wouldn't dump Mr. Katz for DON.

He would never be right. Talk about a bad choice.

I found this episode made me feel pity for Joan. She's so burdened by her sexual appeal, her big breasts making her bra cut into her shoulder, and so many shots of her huge ass as she walks away, and the stuttering admirer in the office who can't talk to her because she's so much woman. Yet, she has brains and gave a great presentation to the client which, while appreciated, was not valued. The Doc is a good catch and she's putting up with his sexist perspectives. Roger telling Don's secretary Joan goes off all the time. She just does not have any support. I find her a very pathetic and sad figure. I hope something grand comes her way. How about her and Peggy working together and becoming friends and schemers. Ah hah hahahah

I hope Joan gets a job offer from one of the clients who like and respect her. Then she can go into Roger and say "are you willing to match their offer?" If not, toodles!

Secretaries in the 60's were considered "just secretaries" whereas the execs all had college educations. The girls would not expect to do the exec's job any more than the men would do typing. I see Harry as someone who doesn't kill himself to get ahead. He's goofing off with the banana guy in his office, but tries to look busy when the boss comes in. He wanted to be the TV Dept., but only the part where he could smooze the clients.

When it came down to Roger expanding Harry's duties to reading scripts, the only person he could quickly pawn it off on was Joan. I don't think she was too happy carrying that tower of scripts out of his office, but she grasped onto the concept, even if it had to do with her soap operas, and made some good suggestions that impressed the clients. I think a light bulb went off in Joan's head that she might really be good at doing something other than being queen bee of the secretaries. Whereas last episode she doesn't really identify with Peggy's new ambition.

When Roger gives the okay to create a position and pay a "man" to do the job, I don't think Joan was given a single thought by Harry or Roger. She is "just a secretary" who baled Harry out that week. Now she's back behind her typewriter and the college geek is the new ad exec.

Really shows how women in those days were perceived in their respective "roles," but were starting to become aware and unhappy with how unfair it was to be stifled in that way.

Yes, but Joan's a college graduate, too. In season one, we were introduced to her roommate, Carol, who confessed that she fell in love with Joan the first time she saw her (Joan) on their college campus.

I think Joan has always been a little jealous of Peggy's promotion, despite her claims to the contrary. Joan knows that she's smart as well as sexy. I agree with you that a lightbulb HAS gone off in her head about being good at something besides being a secretary. And Peggy's promotion has also started those wheels turning.

I hope she does get another job offer and forces SC to give her the new job in order for her to stay.

Gail Klein, The only comment you have that I can disagree with is when you said you hope Joan gets a job offer and "forces" SC to give her the new job. Unfortunately, I don't think women could make deals like that in 1962. Big companies like SC thought that "girls" like Joan were a dime a dozen. However, Joan ISN'T like everyone else, is she?
So, to ladies who worked in offices in 1962: Do you agree?

I doubt joan would be so direct as to invite sc to bid against a new job offer; most likely said job offer would be secretarial and not a promotion into the marketing side of any firm.

joan is still basically old style, and any moves will be indirect when it comes to the male "superiors". I can see her somehow sabotaging the new guy who was given "her job"...or undermining harry.

harry is basically lazy, pedestrian, mediocre and envious of those with real talent; but just ambitious enough to make his own way. his now 2-man department will become increasingly important as the firm moves into tv ads more than print ads.

see how easy it was to get roger to change his mind and authorize a new hire who reports to harry? to increase the size of the tv dept 100%? the men take care of each other, ultimately.

they still do the same thing today - but women get thrown a few more bones than the hapless "gals" in the workforce back in those days.

Stenosill - You're totally right. Giving Joan the job wouldn't have crossed Rodger and Harry's minds for a moment. Working in the television department is a guy's job! Helping out without any extra compensation or a "thank you" while a man takes credit for it - that's a woman's job! And Rodger had to cut in with a snipe about Joan's attention being put in too many directions, like she couldn't handle it.

Sad thing is, I think that the clients who had contact with Joan in that role will be asking about her. She has a special charisma that makes her a natural for dealing with clients, though most people would think it's just her sexuality. She can certainly be flirtatious, but she's also funny and smart. The little snot they hired for the position might fit right in with the boy's club at SC, but I don't think he'll be nearly as successful as Joan would have been.

Hopefully Joan can understand how Peggy feels a little better. I think poor Pegs could use a friend.

i thought joan was ripped off by not getting that tv job. she seemed a natural.

i am new to the show and i wonder why the women don't speak up more.

a product of their time?

boca: i can see your point about joan, and i agree. as for her sabotaging my idea is she's devious enough to not "do anything" if you get my drift. the new guy said he could talk to her for details...if she's like me in that area (yeah it happened) she'll give him as much info as she did when asked what the job was. something quick and send him on his way, i am so very sure she can handle his personality.

lets all hope the writers have a corp ladder that has both joan & peggy on it! after all we're getting into the days of tokenism and we've already seen the extent SC will go to in order to give an impression of being liberal and edgy (the "find one" Jewish guy).

an harry man was that discription spot on! he's just clueless,not out of spite...he just has no vision to see what's right in front of him. now roger or don would pick up/have picked up Joan's prowess they just haven't figured out how far it goes. roger may now know(not sure if harry's telling him came across as Joans strength) and if he had overlooked her then that would be just plain wickedness.

hope joan gets to say something on the subject and yes she is college educated.

ON another note;
someone in another thread implied the actress may have implants. for me that is neither here nor there, just take note women with ample chest have graced the world long before implants. and i think this actress is one of them. the cone bras of that day didn't make it any easier. they were like wearing those extra pointed-toed shoes that were fashionable back a bit...at least 1/2 inch or more just space!

Joan may not have gotten the job but she's more than smart enough to be "too busy" when clueless new guy needs some assistance. After he crashes and burns following a customer complaint.

Joan bats her eyelashes and touches her hair. "It's so simple. You read the script, you check it for consistency and presto, you're done and on to the next. So easy even a secretary like me could do it and still keep up with my work."

When Harry asks, she replies diffidently, "Oh, I'm sorry. If I'd known you wanted someone to really work in your department, you should have told me. Honestly, as you've seen, I could do an even better job than he does and not charge you any more."

Vince: Do you get that this is 1962? Have you watched Season 1?

I really felt for Joan as well in this episode and my heart broke when she was told to train the new hire. Having been in that situation myself, I almost couldn't believe I was watching a tv show, for fiction, it is so real! Bravo Mad Men writers and actors.

I don't think Joan ever aspired to be more than what she thought a woman's role was in that time, but then she got a taste of enjoying work and getting some respect for her thoughts. And if she did have aspirations then she squashed them and settled to be Queen Bee. She is a natural manager and persuasive on many levels. Joan would have understood what Bobbi told Peggy about being a woman in business perfectly. I hope she fights for the job or at least fights to be honest with herself and do something about it, she deserves it.

And is it just me or is the "Marilyn" Joan that we all know seem to be fading away? I thought she was more childlike as well in all of her scenes and especially with the doctor. She's trying to become a "Jackie" day and night! I think the real Joan is somewhere inbetween.

The little-girl voice is practically an epidemic on the show. Even Jackie Kennedy dons it for her White House Tour -no, that was not her natural voice. Girls then were taught to be soft-voiced, little creatures, and to couch their opinons very carefully, "Don't you think maybe it would look better over here?" Being "loud" was considered very unlady-like. The ultimate sin.

let's not forget, Joan did forget to get the water for her man and she didn't exactly have a meal waiting for him when he walked in the door or the table set for that matter like a Betty-type would, she was snuggled up on the couch very into her work and having a drink, it might seem like a small misstep, but I just dont think she is ready to give up her career for him or her ways for that matter; some people are commenting about Joan being pregnant because her fiancee suggested she sit at home all day and eat bon bons, I believe that is just the 60's man mentality that the man is the breadwinner and the wife is there to stay home with the kids...I too hoped Joan got the script reading job! At least Don promoted Peggy!

When I saw Joan on the couch without socks I couldn't help but to think...Joan, barefoot and pregnant.

Mysterythatbinds: Marilyn Monroe got tired of being the "dumb blonde" all the time. By the time she reached 30, she wanted to move on to more serious acting roles and the studio system held her back.

She left Hollywood, came to New York, studied with Lee Strasberg, married Arthur Miller and made a very serious attempt to be taken seriously. At the time she was derided for her efforts, but this time period produced some of her best movies; "Bus Stop," "Seven Year Itch," "Some Like It Hot," "The Prince and The Showgirl" in particular.

Being considered nothing but a pretty face and a pair of breasts gets old very quickly. I'm sure that Joan is beginning to feel the "Marilyn" effect. It may be that in order to move UP, she needs to move ON and OUT of Sterling Cooper. I could see her working for one of the networks, maybe even becoming a soap opera writer. She seems to have a flair for that.

I hope she has the courage to get out of her comfort zone at SC (though that's not a phrase that they used in 1962!).

Poor Marilyn never had the chance to realize her full potential as an actress. Her death in August, 1962 was the biggest new story of the year.

Joan's doctor looks young and says something at dinner about needing to finish his training. What if he's younger than Joan and he doesn't know her real age? OOOOOOH Joanie, you bad girl!

hanna, she could very well have lied about her age! if he's still a resident, he may be under 30. Assume college graduation age 22, med school graduation 26, completion of internship 27, thereafter residency (# of years depends on specialty).

there are plenty of stories of women lying about their ages on driver's licenses, marriage licenses, etc. in the days before modern information technology!

That may be why no one has met him since the bulletin board post!

ahah! so true! she will never let paul meet him, that's for sure.

I was a college freshman in 1963 and I can't think of a female classmate who wanted a career (yes, I did end up having one and now own my own business, but that was never The Plan). Joan caught the brass ring for that time--a doctor! In many organizations being married meant being unemployed--as late as 1969 the large company I worked for did not allow men and women to sit at the same tables in the cafeteria! At the same time a friend had the interesting job of securing hookers for the sales guys who came into the home office. Joan's choice is being an old maid with a career (assuming she moved out of the secretarial pool) or being married to a successful professional. She's not stupid. A more realistic scenario is that they marry, in 20 years he leaves her for a younger woman, she takes her settlement money and starts a fabulously successful business--but that's not until the mid-80"s.

Wasn't there a joke about women going to college long enough to get their "MRS" degree? My grandmother one of those. She went to college in the 40s, got her BA, and married right out of college, but she didn't get a paying job until my grandfather died (of lung cancer - one of those who started smoking the free cigs they gave soldiers in WWII) in '81. Her first job at age 54? She was a secretary. :)

nothing wrong with being a wife and mother, if that's your calling in life, but it's great to have a choice in the matter.

if joan does decide to stay with the doctor and become his lawfully wedded wife, she will have to continue using the skills she has used on the job ("handling" the men in "important" positions) and continue to defer, flatter, maneuver, deflect, and generally manipulate the clueless egomaniac in order to approximate marital bliss. if she's smart enough, she'll encourage him to work his ass off for long hours, and earn loads of money, thereby giving her lots of free time to do almost everything she wants to do.

so true - in 20 yrs he will trade her in for a younger model. what a game.

It's a while ago but some of you refer to the 9th episode preview showing Don thinking of Rachel. The only one I could find shows the boys going to the private club. Where do I find this other info please!!!!!

bocaratonfan...
Paul has already met him (he mentioned he had at his party), but no one has been introduced since everyone found out how old she is. I'm saying, she may not want anyone mentioning to him how old she was when they dated like she did Sheila.

Joan told Roger that the doctor was 34. She is 31 (we saw her driver's license).

If the doctor (what's his name, by the way?) has a brain in his head, he certainly can figure out that Joan ain't exactly a "spring chicken."

I don't think the doctor would dump her because of her age. He might dump her because she's not a little-wifey type of woman. Hopefully, she will dump him first.

thanks gail, for the reminder about joan's disclosure of his age to roger - however, we have only her word for it. what if she's saying he's older, because roger knows joan's real age, and she doesn't want flack because she's marrying a younger man, something that was very rare in those days? it's still uncommon now. on average, husbands are 3 yrs older than their wives.

i, too, hope joan dumps him. actually, it would probably be more comfortbale for joan if she were the mistress of an older man who lived out of town and visited only ocassionally and with advance notice, provided her with an attractive apartment and other economic perks, and "allowed" or even expected her to work. then she could try to advance in her career, as well as have a man in her life - and see other men if she so chose.

bocaratonfan: My mother was two years older than my father. I didn't find out until my mother turned 65 and applied for Social Security. When I found out, I was in a state of shock for about a week!

Good scenario for Joan. I hope she will go farther in her career -- she deserves it!

gail, isn't it funny how they hid (or maybe even lied about) the age difference? but that's how they thought in those days.

i have several friends (we're all in the late 40s now) who were or are married to substantially younger men (all 2nd marriages). one marriage (she was 12 yrs older) ended in divorce after just a few years. another (wife also 12 yrs older) has lasted about 15 yrs so far! and the last one (10 yr age diff) is "iffy" to say the least. personally, i have never been attracted to younger men...even a few years younger makes it seem too much like a younger brother (yuck).

And I am the complete opposite. Not attracted to older men at all. Never was, never will be. I like 'em right around my age or a few years younger. They just seem more fun, more lively.

Funny....bocaratonfan....
I'm a 'guy is older' kinda girl, too....
My grandma told me that's cause I haven't lived long enough! :)

don't get me wrong - when i said older i did not mean i want a father figure! i know one woman in her early 40s who's married to a man 38 yrs her senior....yuck. though he is very, very rich. still, she has to sleep with him....i don't care how well-preserved he is.....ugh.

my husband was 3 years older, and most of my other "significant others" have been 2-3 yrs older, which I consider to be "around my age". the oldest age difference for me was 20 yrs, a man i dated briefly when i was in my early 20s and he was early 40s. an older man is ok as long as he's in great shape for his age and not domineering or a bore.

but the ones who are most fun are in my age group. we have the same cultural memories, music, etc.

Right...
The problem is.....A single woman my age is encouraged to play the 'cougar' role, but it has never interested me. I have never wanted to explain anything to my companion...we need to be of the same generation.

To add to the age discussion: My mom is exactly 1 year and 2 weeks older than my dad. Dad loves it because for the 2 weeks between their birthdays he gets to claim that he's 2 years younger than his "cradle-robbing" wife. This was especially fun when she was 50 for two weeks while he was only 48. Silly folks. ;)

How come I never get a guy who wants me to stay home and eat bon-bons??? I could handle that.

I agree with you guys. I like men my own age within 2 or 3 years. I wouldn't mind a guy who's a little older if he was attractive to me, but generally I like them my own age.

I have never been interested in being a "cougar" either. Who wants to have to explain who The Beatles were?

Who'd want to have to explain all the references in Mad Men?

exactly. one of the late 40s women i mentioned above, whose late 30s husband is 10 yrs younger, once said he likes older women because they are so "grateful" and will "take care of him".. i don't like the sound of that. sounds too much like the younger man thinks he's doing the older woman ("old" means in her 40s or over) a favor by being with her, then expects her to pay all or most of the bills. no thanks!

another thing i don't recommend, having seen several other women do it and get dumped: woman in mid to late 30's, already has kids from prior marriage and doesn't want more, or whose fertility is not what it used to be; marries man in mid-20s, his first marriage, no kids of his own, says "it's not important that i ever have a child of my own, i just want to be with you". eventually he realizes he does want his own kids and she doesn't want to or (worse yet) keeps trying and can't get pregnant or carry a child full-term. the guy dumps her for a woman his own age who can give him kids.

I think Joan is going to trick us all and stay with the doctor..

theblackjoan, you are probably right, but i still hope she doesn't because i think she will be selling herself short. however, it's 46 yrs ago and women's options and social expectations were so much different that today. worse in some ways, better in others. but as an independent woman, i want to scream when i see these men in the show expect to be catered to, deferred to, served, coddled, helped, and otherwise lord it over all the women in their lives. it's probably at least somewhat exaggerated for dramatic purposes, but women were definitely "under the thumb" of even the most generous of men.

I totally agree with you boca.. saddest thing is men still think like that on some levels.. it will be sad to see, but Joan may be made to feel inferior for wanting to do more than what she's been doing and therefore she goes to "marriage land" with her red head hanging.

theblackjoan, i like the imagery of your phrase, "with her red head hanging"...yeah, depressing...like going off to prison or exile.

there was a 1960s song (by the famous miss peggy lee - do you know her - very popular 50s and 60s), where a line was, "is this all there is?" how often, the so-called greatest things on earth are often just a big disappointment once you get there!

bocaraton:
once said he likes older women because they are so "grateful" and will "take care of him".

He probably read Benjamin Franklin's Advice to a Young Man on the Choice of a Mistress (1745), where Franklin suggests (after stating married and settled is preferable) several reasons an older woman is the better choice. The final reason is "Eighthly and lastly, they are so grateful!!"

http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html

The first stated reason is: "Because as they have more knowledge of the world and their minds are better stored with observations, their conversation is more improving and more lastingly agreeable."

I doubt any of the posters here would disagree with Reason One. :-)

bocaraton:
Peggy Lee also had another hit, Pass Me By which has the refrain:

"I'll tell the whole darn world
If you don't happen to like it, deal me out,
Thank you, kindly and pass me by."

ritt: benjamin franklin was a wise and wiley old boy. and there is some truth in the older being grateful for love and attention. perhaps as we mature we realize their value, their rarity and the fact that they are not easily replaced if ruined or discarded.

i do remember that song and the refrain, "if you don't happen to like it, pass me by". excellent! i bet she wrote that in her 40s or beyond.

as for miss peggy lee, she was a great songwriter and (albeit less so) a great singer. a tremendous talent.

China Wholesale Town - China's most viable wholesale supplier of promotional gifts, Wholesale Carabiner you can customize your own logo, no matter anywhere in the world! Lunch Box Suppliers

Top China Wholesaler-Buy Wholesale Promotional Gifts Promotional Items from China.