Thanks so much. I really like Betty and I really hope her marriage works out. Don't really understand why, but I do. I think there are some others like me out there...at least I hope so.

There is a strong tendency when watching a drama play out in another time and place of projecting the society of today and your own life lessons onto the characters. I know I am guilty of this. You make several good points about Betty. However, this is a drama, and Don has his own very significant issues to deal with. To say he should shape up and do it NOW trivializes his problems just as you say Betty's have been.

I, too, am a cookie baker, so I realized the significance of the two spoons. I also recognized that Betty was interacting with her children in an accepted way back then - teaching Sally to cook with Bobby helping - she is really starting Sally on the same path Betty took with her mother.

Yes, Zerelda, Don does have some significant issues, and again, we are trying to get him to solve them using today's modern methods. But he is just as much a victim of the times as Betty is.

But regardless of his problems, it was never OK to cheat on your spouse, even though people did it anyway. She is stuck at home, doing her best while he does whatever the hell he wants, regardless of who he hurts. The first step for him to be whole is to stop hurting those who would potentially be his best allies.

I, for one, have never understood this vitriol towards Betty. What has the woman done to inspire such harsh feelings?

I think she's beautiful, charming, gracious, and genuinely in love with her husband. I see her trying very hard to be the perfect wife, mother, and hostess at all times.

She's a product of her times and background as we all are. I think the writers are showing us that women like Betty were very often disappointed and disenchanted with their lives as suburban stay at home moms. She is the prototype of the stay at home mom who will eventually have her consciousness raised by the women's liberation movement. I have no idea where the writers are going to go with her story line, but I certainly think that Betty is basically a nice woman in a bad situation. She does not deserve the bashing and hatred directed at her by some of the posters on this blog.

Just my opinion.

We have seen other ways women in Betty's social circle handle similar issues. Mona, for one. The woman who was drunk at the around the world dinner party for another. People deal with their issues in their own ways. And, that is what Betty is doing. It surprised me that she told Don not to come home. I did not expect that from her. I thought she would take a path of pretense, while steaming inside. But, her lack of friends is, in part, because she doesn't open up to people. Except for Glenn, which is another part of her that surprised me. Perhaps that retecience about sharing their thoughts is what drew Don and Betty together in the first place.
Betsy, were you surprised Betty loaned out her dresses so easily? What did you make of that?

when did that book come about feminine Mystique?

when did that book come about feminine Mystique?

No, I wasn't surprised at the dress loan at all. Why not? I think Betty is a kind friend who happens to have a lot of style, and doesn't mind sharing her style with a friend who feels invisible. I think in Betty's mind she was doing her friend a favor by setting her up with Arthur at lunch. Her friend went on about feeling "invisible" and that after all the time with the shrink the diagnosis was "boredom." Betty was just giving her a little excitement. I do not think there is any idea that a full fledged affair will follow. In times past, it was considered perfectly acceptable among wealthy, "bored" married people to "flirt" with each other--but no more. Anyone here read Edith Wharton's "House of Mirth"? Flirting was OK in high society. Cheating was not.

I think Betty is a naive, but intelligent woman, trying her best to navigate this unfamiliar river that turns out to have rapids nobody ever warned her about. She doesn't have the greatest tools, and is doing the best she can. She is ripe for the liberation movement to give her the confidence she needs to know she is not alone, and that she is perfectly capable of rowing her own canoe if she has to, no thanks to Don.

One other thing--Betty, like most women--was raised to be a pleaser with a capital P. Of course she would lend her dresses, and do anything else a friend might ask for. Betty wants to please everybody, all the time. Now if she could just figure out how to please herself. The first step was to stop pretending her marriage was fine.

I completely agree with you, Gail Klein. I think people are not used to seeing a mother portrayed on television who isn't at least trying to live up to our MODERN mothering standards. Betty is not only living with debilitating depression (if you've gone through it yourself or know someone that has, you know how much it keeps people from living their normal lives) but she is a product of her time and place (repressed and expected to be happy with her situation no matter what). She does love her kids and she wants to be a good mother. She also totally deserves to be angry with Don for his infidelity, and I'm glad that she is FINALLY dealing with it. She seems cold to some, but I think that is really just depression and repressed frustration in Betty.

Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" was published in early 1963 - not yet Betty's time.

I really think that at least one writer on this show knows exactly what it's like to be a woman with children at home whose spouse is cheating. Even in this day and age, the worry and turmoil is still the same. This is what is was like for me: always worried and suspicious; lost a lot of weight; so preoccupied with the situation that I was not a fun mommy; not mean to my child but basically sat him in front of TV for 2 months while I worried; went out on constant trips (when I didn't have my son those days) to find the cheater; looked through drawers, closets, etc. sniffing clothing. Humiliating! I finally left the idiot, but the whole thing taught me a lesson about jealousy. If you can't trust the other person, just leave. I should have done it long before I did.
Betty is doing everything but driving around. She's stuck in suburbia in the 60's. Now, of course, she doesn't need to do much because she already knows almost everything...except she can't bust that desk open.
(Betty would never do this, but I knew a woman who piled her kids in the car, went looking, and found her husband at his girlfriend's house...ouch!)

Betty is facing Don's infidelity. As I say, I didn't expect her to. She is working at seeing reality, and every where she turns there are situations she doesn't like. We haven't seen Francine, did they move? Betty is facing reality, she even wants something solid, some evidence, and that search must show she is still questioning herself and Don, who, as far as we know, is still lying and saying she is wrong. It is all her fault, in other words. We know Mona kicked Roger out more than once, because he spoke of it. Mona is a different generation than Betty, but there are similarities in their husband's way of living. I wonder what advice Mona would give Betty?

Amen. This is why I love the show. It is not the "Cleavers" or "Ozzie & Harriet". This is how people (like my Grandmother) handled life back then. Things for women have changed (Thank God). Mad Men has helped me to understand the generation (my Mother's) that laid a lot of the ground work for that change.

HEAR!
HEAR!
(or is it Here! Here!?)

I love Betty. I love all of the characters, as no one is all good or all bad (and even when they're being bad, don't you love it?!).

Though it's not nearly as good quality as MM, I keep thinking about that movie "Mona Lisa Smile". Remember, all of the girls were well-to-do, went to college, but then were expected to get married, set up their homes, etc. Even just looking through women's magazines of that time, you see more about housekeeping, entertaining (like a Round-the-World dinner!), maintaining that youthful look, etc., than you do about parenting ... much less How To Control Your Lying Cheating Husband!

I have an old 1962 Ladies Home Journal that I reread just the other day and was stuck by the entire tome of the magazine: how to be a supportive wive ("Remember, ladies, he's had a hard day out there!") and worrying about "freshness" (i.e. Modess, Kotex, feminine odor). Recipes, childcare tips, gardening know-how and occasionally an interview with either Dr. Spock or someone in the Kennedy family. "Always be the beautiful girl he was proud to marry" was really the theme of the entire magazine. We HAVE come a long way, baby.

I got a SMALL taste of what it must have been like to be a mom in the 60's with the lack of freedom. I am in Houston and after IKE hit we had no electricity for 5 days, no gasoline to be found. My kids were bored, we were all just stuck in the house. I really took for granted how liberating (for lack of a better word) it is to just be able to get in a car and drive to the mall to look around, go to a movie, anything just to get out of the house. I am sure eventually we would have adjusted but it was maddening.

Hi everyone! I have said this before, I think Betty is both a victim of the times, and is a little passive-aggressive by nature. I believe there is a side to her that can be evil and conivining when needed.

I do agree that infidelity is not acceptable at any time. Maybe because it happened to me in my first marriage years ago. That pain can be as real today as it was 24 yrs ago. He denied it (no suprise), but, I found evidence (while I was 8 months pregnant), and he could not hide his disdain (sp?) for me after my son was born...anyway that's another story...

I think Betty is going to blow (she is Nordic)! I have mixed feelings about her. Time will tell.

You ask why the meanness towards Betty. I think it is that we all either are Betty, have been Betty, or knew Betty. It is personal with a character who is so helpless and yet has so many resources at her disposal. But, aren't we all like that? We all have resources that others (at least our mothers!) see we have, but are not using. Peggy is disliked, in a personal way, also, I think, because of her not displaying a materal instinct. This show gets to the heart of personalities and it can cause a lot of deep seated emotions in its viewers. The actors should be proud of their responses, because it shows they are hitting the mark.

Betsy: You tell 'em! That was a great defense of Betty. You are right on with everything you wrote.

Where the heck IS Francine? Remember Betty told Don "she's like a sister to me".

I am a true Betty supporter through and through. I had an Aunt who went through a huge seperation from my Uncle (they got divorced, but remarried and have been happy since! :) but everything Betty is going through I saw my Aunt go through. She was so depressed my mom and my other aunts, her sisters had to literally get her out of bed, help her take a shower and cook and clean for her. She was so devestated that my Uncle had gone out on her, that she literally felt like nothing mattered anymore. Her only child, my cousin Jennifer was only 3 at the time so she really didnt quite understand, but whenever my aunt saw her, she would always cry. I mean its tough.

The people who like to harp on Betty as being the villian is ridiculous, but we Betty lovers have to take into consideration that it is their opinion just like we have our opinions on Betty, which of course are always right! And I do agree, we need to see Francine. I think Francine would atleast be some comfort to Betty.

I thought loaning the dresses to Sarah Beth showed a generous spirt. That is why I thought her fixing up SB was a gesture of a similar nature. But,is there more going on with that fix up than Betty helping out a friend. I often misread scenes. And, I should add, that I don't think critiquing motivations for any of the characters shows that I dislike them. They are drawn (like Jessica Rabbit maybe...) to be who they are and as the viewer we are to dechiper who that is.Just like when we look at a painting or hear a musical composition. We do that by picking them apart and adding our personal agendas. I think Betty was duped by society and Don into buying into a way of life that now needs her as its center and that controls how much she can change. She is fortunate to have Carla to take up the slack. But, feeling that doesn't make me dislike or like a character. It makes me find her interesting and complex.

Betsy, I agree. Whether Betty is viewed as a self-absorbed bitch or a princess without "real" problems, her depression is acute and very real. When she watched her kids from the top of the stairs getting ready to go with Carla, I really felt for her. She's so painfully alienated.

My mother was chronically depressed all through my childhood and teen years and often didn't make it out of bed. Betty making it downstairs, doing chores and making cookies seemed pretty darn good for the state she's in.

Yes, Don's unfaithfulness is a factor, but this is really just about Betty, and her monumental disappointment and disillusionment with how life is turning out for her. Before too long, she'll need to make some decisions about how she's going to live in this world, based on reality, not fairytales. And fill Don in on what she wants/needs.

It will take confronting herself. She's already confronted Don. She can't control him. I'm curious to see how she will choose to define herself, survive, and hopefully thrive - whether in the marriage or on her own. I hope she can do it, but also realize the resources back then for healing/therapy were slim. And then there's the drinking wine all day in a house dress.

Betty's got some work to do, but I believe she needed to hit rock bottom to rebuild. What she can't afford to do is let herself be swallowed by bitterness and resentment.

Great post, Betsy. Thanks to all for the revealing commentary on Betty's emotional/psychological struggles. I too have watched Betty become more and more depressed. And, though I have been really angry at her at times in season 2 for what I perceive as indifference or a lack of warmth for and with her children (e.g., the "Bobby, quit playing with that robot!" "Don, do something!" and not even questioning the appropriateness of having Sally make mixed drinks for her, Don & guests), I can see that her demeanor and behavior can be considered a mirror of her internal struggles to "live" a life that she is finding increasingly NOT ideal. I can imagine how painful it would be to hear a friend say how perfect my husband is, knowing full well that it is a lie. To live a lie must be extremely exhausting psychologically. And, how human to see her sleeping on the sofa--yes, anyone who has found themselves in the grips of depression will understand the overwhelming inability to function; sleeping is one means to not think about anything. Even so, how great that Carla took the opportunity to say what we all need to hear when we are not functioning well and cannot see it ourselves (although I know full well how hard it is to do anything when depressed)--get up, go out, do.....something. And, this is a time before the development of more effective antidepressants. Valium would have been available I suppose to "numb" her pain. Also, I wonder what the prescription was at that time for a diagnosis of "boredom." Join a garden club? Start a coffee klatch? Volunteer at the hospital? Never mind the progress needed to enable women to enter the workforce and to enter occupations previously unavailable to them.

Kudos to January Jones for her very real portrayal of a wife and mother in despair.

Betty's doing a fair job getting through this hell. Don's lucky Betty hasn't thrown his stuff out into the street.

That would draw attention to them and shame. She doesn't want that. She wants Don to own up to his misdeed(s) and apologize.

Betty only knows about Bobbie. If she knew about all the others, perhaps Don's stuff would be in the county landfill.

Betty's not going to storm the offices of Sterling Cooper ala Mona. Again, she's not trying to embarrass Don or shame him. She wants her husband back. I do think she loves him.

His stonewalling is only causing her to dig in her heels. I don't blame her.

I knew a lady who had a philandering alcoholic husband who denied everything. She'd lose control and go ballistic. He'd use her anger against her. He'd keep his cool and deny, deny, deny. He was a lying SOB.

Keep an even keel Betty. Look up a locksmith and have the desk opened. Be careful though Betts, you may not like what you find.

Betty, my dear - get a locksmith and open up that damn desk! ;o) That butter knife will get you nowhere.

"It will take confronting herself. She's already confronted Don. She can't control him. "

Glamara - What an insight! I've always believed that true happiness is a choice; choosing to be grateful for what you have and taking happiness from everyday life by doing the things that make you happy and consciously enjoying being around your family and friends. Why give the control of your happiness to an outside source by thinking that simply having the perfect job, perfect house, perfect car, perfect clothes, perfect spouse, etc. is going to just make you happy? Things don't make you happy! Experiences and relationships do! Betty needs to gain control of her life, and she will only do that if she stops trying to control Don and discovers who she is and what in life (besides stuff) is going to make her happy. A job? Traveling? Spending QUALITY time with her children? She needs to stop trying to be perfect for Don and start being real for herself.

....Drink&Smoke, you are so funny.....I was thinking the same thing. "Get a coat-hanger, Einstein!" I mean, how long has she been working on that drawer? Three weeks? A month? She would make a terrible thief.

I don't hate Betty - are there a lot of Betty-haters on here? I know there are one or two, but that doesn't make them bad. Just opinionated, and God knows most of us are that. I like it. The good news is we are all entitled to it - free country and all....just sayin'.

Betsy, this is a very good and thorough thread and I'm glad you posted it separately.

Well put, Dry Manhatten! I'm with you, I like Betty but not everyone does. Here's to the First Amendment and our freedom of opinions. Cheers! ;o)

Poor Betty... when she finally does get the stupid drawer open, I predict she'll find nothing. Men with secrets didn't tend to keep their evidence at home. That's what offices were for, and safe deposit boxes... with the wife unawares.

It occurs to me that if Don had anything of value/memories in that drawer, he would have left work and gone home during the hours she's usually at the stables. Then emptied the drawer.

That they haven't shown that scene indicates that a) he has an absurd belief in locks, b) hasn't thought she would actually violate the sanctity of a locked drawer in his desk or c) there's nothing of value or incriminating there.

What was it in the first season? Liberty Bank with bank accounts for businessmen? Called Executive Banking? or an executive account? For the busy executive who wants to keep his expense account separate from his household account. Or for whatever reason.

.....Drink&Smoke.....I look at it this way - barring actual fisticuffs, I think it's great people can say exactly what they really think her and not end up in the gallows for it. No one is going to say what they really think if they know they are going to be punished or ostracized for it.

I mean, if you can't be honest, over the internet, using a phoney name, in America, where the hell CAN you do it? Life is already way too full of things unsaid. I should think opening things up, rather than closing them down is what would have the best outcome.

Also, how boring would this board be without opposing opinions. Not only would it be over in the first 5 comments, it would be a giant snore and probably wouldn't retain traffic. The cool thing is that anyone new coming here with other, less evolved social tendencies, quickly and happily falls in with the high-quality, rapid and mostly friendly rhythm of the list.

As long as I know the person isn't disrespecting me personally, and/or they make me laugh, they can think whatever they want about these characters. I think it's great. I like to read why someone might hate someone (the "H" word). That gives me something to work with in regard to how I feel about the grey areas. It just makes me stronger - ha!

.....oops - that should be "what they really think here," not "her." sorry!

.....Why does the term "depression" always seem like it has the ring of blame to it? Like the person did something wrong or is faulty in some way. I don't know about then, but isn't it kind of that way now?

I would worry about Betty if she didn't feel some depression right now. To her, Atlas just shrugged.

Betty had better be careful. We have no idea what happened to Peggy in the mental hospital.

Remember lobotomies and electroshock therapy (induced seizures) weren't legally banned by the United States until as late as the 1970s. (It was a state-by-state decision.)

Carla was right about splashing her face and going outside. If Betty doesn't pull it together, she could begin a nasty downward slide, and frankly, I don't think she is prepared to come up from something like that. She is already fragile and tested at this point, but she has a support network and some security.

That can change, and that's something devastating she won't see coming.

Blah blah blah.....we'll see.

I think it's interesting how the writers will totally drop a story line for one or two episodes. It adds to the whole "are they coming back?" thing. "Did they go to the big Green Room in the sky?"

Like I keep saying, it's the writers' jobs to drive us crazy.

....Sizzie, my post time is off by an hour (should say 2:43 pm) which is why mine keep posting above yours.

Depression has a few things that stay the same for everyone, but I also think it manifests itself differently for everyone. If that contradictory statement makes sense! I also think many people suffer from it at one time or another. Am I wrong in that? Are there people who are never depressed? I actually hated the term 'having the blues', that I heard often from adults in my life. They needed 'nerve pills' to help them cope with 'the blues'. I understood their having a problem, but the term is what I disliked. Irrational of me probably. When I am depressed, I don't put things away. Betty, on the other side, cleans and clears away things. I would notice I was acting depressed, not by how I felt, but when I noticed the kitchen counters were covered in grocery store canned food that I had not put in the cabinet that was just inches from where they were stacked on the counter.

Polignac.... you are so right I think don will come and rescue her after she finds out about her dads illness. She will be more depressed and hopefully Don stops his cheating ways and comfort her when she needs it most. Good points also!

Excellent posts, Dry Manhatten, Sizzie and Polignac!! Your quote "I mean, if you can't be honest, over the internet, using a phoney name, in America, where the hell CAN you do it?" - a gut buster! Thanks for the laugh!!! ;o)
I forgot about the lobotomies, electro shock therapies and new psych meds they really didn't research. Kind of scary when you think about it. Then there's Don. We've seen Don a little tipsy with Roger before, but he wasn't really drunk. That night Don was drunk and the idea of Don really doing the "drunk talk" is outstanding! Haven't we all done a "drunk and dial?" on those nights? Yes, I can see him sobering up in the next episode and really missing Betty and his kids. Cheers! ;o)

....Drink&Smoke....did you see "Frances," the story of Hollywood actress Frances Farmer?

Scary is right. Having someone unjustly committed was not that hard, and families and husbands often did it as a way of controlling the victim.

Notice I said "victim," not "patient."

Joseph Kennedy had his "slow" daughter, Rosemary, committed, then lobotomized, not sure exactly what year.

It would be an understatement to say that it didn't go well.

This is a whole other, very relevant and fascinating thread that someone (hint) really should start....

I think with the increasing illness of her father, and possible death of him, might be the breaking point for Betty. I think if that does happen, she go deeper and deeper into depression, and I think Don might actually come to her rescue. I think he truly has feelings for her. I mean in "For those who think young" when she was coming down the stairs, he just stared at her with admiration, and he had a look on his face, like wow, I am married to that, and she loves me in return." I think he harbors those feelings for Betty also in "The Wheel" when you see the last picture of them at new years kissing, you see his face melt with love and admiration. He loves this woman, but like earlier posters and earlier threads suggest, Don doesnt know how to showcase his feelings. He cant. I mean he tries, but they dont come out right, or they send mixed messages. Maybe it should be he who needs the therapy. Either way, I think both Don and Betty need each other to survive. I mean look at how miserable they are without each other. Clearly the writers are suggesting if they were to get divorced it is going to kill either one. So far Betty is the front-runner. And I think when Don said he was relieved to be seperated was a drunk talking. Drunk people say stupid shit like that. I know I have in the past. Plus after Roger keeps on preasuring him to talk, I think Don had had enough, so he lied, as usual. Maybe that is just me. This coming week looks really good, because we see Don talking to Betty over the phone in which Betty looks upset, and Don sweetley tells her "its okay, were going to be ok."

Dry - I saw "Frances" for a sociology/woman's studies class in college. Yikes! The icepick lobotomy scene at the end of the film still stays with me as one of the most disturbing thing I've EVER seen. I was so so angry on her behalf; how dare someone take away your personality and ability to make decisions for yourself just because you're different and people want you to be "controlled"! Who knows how many "uncontrollable" women were institutionalized and lobotomized during the early- to mid-20th century when there might have been a much better way to help them? I hate to see anything like that happen to Betty, but who knows what will happen to her if she doesn't either get (good) help or somehow get herself out of the depression.

Polignac:
I think the reason Don is telling her that is because she's on her way to see her dad after Sheila(?) calls to tell her that her dad has taken a turn for the worse. She has to call Don because of the kids. And she needs to hear something comforting. So he's telling her over the phone, "...it's okay, it's going to be okay."

The relief Don mentioned to Roger is because he doesn't have to hide that he was cheating on her with Bobbie any more. She knows and told him not to come home, so she's punishing him. That doesn't mean he's going to confess it.

Now all he needs to do is figure out what the "grand gesture" is but it should be easy for him. He's creative. According to Roger :-)

Speaking of Roger reminds me of Mona, who may call Betty about Roger's leaving and Don's possible involvement. Betty may come to understand that the reason Don is gone is because she told him not to come home, not that he told her he was leaving her for another woman. There is a difference. Leaving for another woman means it quite possibly there won't be any reconciliation. Unlike Betty's situation.

hanna, I recently read about Mary Todd Lincoln and that book said her only surviving son had her committed. She did have some issues, but the book made it appear he mostly wanted her out of the way so he could control the money. That might be wrong, I am just saying the point of view of that particular book. She would be a good subject to research, I think.

.....hanna..... that was a literal account of how it was done and you're right - it's a horror story. wait until you see the documentary Dr. Lobotomy about Dr. Walter Freeman.

Freeman invented the "ice pick" or transorbital lobotomy, which, at first, literally used an ice pick hammered through the back of the eye socket into the brain.

I read The Feminine Mystique in college, about 20 years after it was written. Even so, it was and still is an amazing book. If you read it now, you'll be transported back into the world of many of the women featured in it, upper-middle-class, well-educated wives and mothers of the early 1960s. These women abdicated their educations and career prospects to pursue the ultimate 1950s goal, the MRS degree. Betty, exactly. A central theme of the book is "The Problem That Has No Name." Countless women surveyed by author Betty Friedan complained of this malady which in many cases could have been diagnosed as clinical depression.

"Maybelline" posted above about the patronizing editorial her 1962 Ladies Home Journal. Exactly! In The Feminine Mystique, Friedan conducts research on women's magazines of that period. She verifies that the editorial is all about being a good little wife and mommy. She parallels that editorial content with that of magazines from the 30s and 40s which depicts women (gasp) pursuing careers! Get this book from your library. You'll see Betty Draper all over it. I predict that next season, we'll see her hunched over the book and making Don squirm. At least I hope so.

Dry - Blech! Please, no more details. I don't watch movies or TV shows with a lot of violence - you can't take those images out of your head once you've seen them! I still cringe, thinking of the scene in that movie.

Those quacks that performed the procedures deserve a special place in you-know-where. Totally wrong, inhumane, and unjust! Like the patients had a say in what was done to them, either.

Sizzie: I've heard that it was possible that Mary Todd Lincoln was bipolar, and it probably didn't help that she lost all but one of her children to childhood diseases and such, and then her husband was assassinated in front of her. She was also a huge spendthrift, which made her highly unpopular as the first lady. It's hard to say if her son did it to keep her from over-spending or to just have her money. Both seem plausible. Did you know that said son was not at the scene of his father's assassination, but was present at the assassinations of 2 other U.S. presidents (Garfield and McKinley)? Big U.S. history buff, by the way. :)

Dry Manhattan: Joe Kennedy had Rosemary lobotomized in 1941. She went from being mildly retarded and "slow" to being very retarded and utterly helpless. They put her away after that into a convent in Wisconsin, where she lived for the rest of her life.

Rose Kennedy wrote her memoirs called "Times To Remember" in which she spoke very frankly about Rosemary. Of all the tragedies in that family, Rosemary's was the hardest for Mrs. Kennedy to bear.

Actually, from the way she described Rosemary's symptoms, it sounded as if the girl was mentally ill and learning disabled, not really mentally retarded. But there was so much ignorance back then, any kid who was a little slow was labeled "retarded."

Another great tragedy was that any kind of mental illness or defect was considered an unspeakable disgrace. This attitude prevailed until well into the 1970's - 80's. I don't like Sarah Palin, but at least we now live in a time when the fact that she has a Down's Syndrome baby can be made public and applauded, not hidden away.

Hanna: They think that Abe Lincoln was also manic-depressive (or to be PC "bipolar").

hanna, I have read several Lincoln books, and no one seems to agree on many events. The same with Lincoln himself. But, one I just finished was a fictionalized autobiography of Mary T Lincoln. It seemed very well researched, but of course, no one really knows what Mrs. L was thinking when she did certain things. But, the author gave it a try. I was interested enough to do some research to see if any of the facts agreed.I can't say that I liked the character the author created, but she held my interest. Mary Todd Lincoln was a complex personality who was held in strict behavior by the times she lived in. I tend to think she was born with some mental health issues and her life added enough stress to make them worst. But, her son didn't come off very good in the novel at all. She was first to be called First Lady and it was done as an insult or at least a slam at her behavior. The Lincolns were in office 100 years before MM, but some of the social mores that haunted M Lincoln were still evident for Betty's generation.

I wrote that long, rambling Mary Todd Lincoln comment and then forgot to end it with the reason for the post. Mrs. Lincoln had many haters in her lifetime and even after her death.

Sizzie: I think that women like Mary Lincoln (up until even around Betty Draper's time) really got their personal and social worth from their husband's accomplishments. Who were they, if they couldn't be known as their husband's wife? Abe Lincoln started off with very humble beginnings, so Mary was most certainly very proud of his professional accomplishments. As to her haters, it seems like she was set up for failure on the public-relations front. Not only was she high-strung and mentally unstable from all accounts, but she was trying to re-decorate the White House (who wouldn't since the previous president was a bachelor) while the nation was at war. She also came from a slave state (Kentucky) and had relatives that fought for the Confederacy - that's not going to make you very popular with the rest of the country.

Wow, you ladies really know your history!! I had no idea. Thank you, it has made for some informative reading. Cheers! ;o)

Thanks, D&S! I'm a big history nerd. Presidential trivia has been an interest of mine since childhood. :P

It is good to discuss with you hanna! I liked and disliked the woman I found in the cover of the novel. I read more than I wanted to know about Mary and Abe's private time together. I can't base any facts on a novel, but it did start me looking for reasons behind her erratic behavior. One fact I found was covered in the novel. Her good friend wrote a tell all book about her. It was a total blindside event to her. Thanks for listening to an off topic. I think what prompted me to talk about it was that I haven't had anyone to discuss MTL with and she was on my mind, and also, because her life fits in with the housewife discussion here. T

Sizzie - No problem. I like discussing history. If you want to learn more, you might want to track down that book written by her confidant at your local library (maybe via inter-library loan if they don't have it). Primary documents like that are harder to read (19th century language), but I'll bet it would be very interesting to research. Gee, an unauthorized tell-all book written about a public figure - sounds pretty familiar. Add some nasty paparazzi pictures in tabloids and you'd have a modern media scandal! Maybe MTL was ahead of her time. :)

Alot of it is on line hanna. I won't post the details here, but it is worth a few hours to read.

Hey everyone, I love this thread about Betty. I also empathize with Betty's situation greatly -- she's so clearly clinically depressed. And whether it's situational, biological, or both, there were few remedies at the time in terms of antidepressants. I had relatives at that time with deep depression. One was bed-bound for life, and made her spouse and kids' lives a virtual hell. The other received the primitive drugs of the time, being valium, lithium, and very early, non-SSRI antidepressants that usually made patients fat or sedated.

Betty was completely a remnant of her time, albeit with a serially-cheating husband and depression. I've never thought she was a bad mom, per se. I understand her coldness and anger toward Bobby, although I wish she'd had the resources to get therapy (real therapy, not Dr. Big-mouth), and counseling so that she could've been a better mother to him.

All in all, she's doing the best she can with what she knows. And at that time, given how she was raised, that wasn't much to prepare her for the situation life (Don) dealt her.

I had a mother who had similar child-raising methods to Betty. We children were rarely given compliments because that would give us big heads, and conceit was the worst trait a child could have. The next worst traits would be lying and cheating, which would explain her no-nonsense approach to Bobby. There was none of this constant-praise-the-kid-even-though-you-both-know-what-he-just-did-was-only-mediocre modern day child raising stuff.

While I have raised my kids with something in between these two extremes, I understand where Betty is coming from, and it was pretty typical of the times.

I also think she is really angry at the way Don cheats and lies, and is trying to nip those traits in the bud for Bobby.

....Sorry, I'm late.... hanna and Gail..... thank you for the book recommendation - I've always been fascinated by the Kennedy clan.

The reason I brought up all that harsh stuff is that I think it's easy for us to forget the bigger, but more latent details of the time.

Think of your every day life here in America, where you feel largely protected and safe, and that you think of yourself as a person with rights.

Imagine going from that to 50 years ago. Not so then. Women didn't have the stature, rights or equality they have now, even 40 years after winning the right to vote.

Your husband or your parents, if they didn't like you much or wanted to be rid of you, could damn you to a literal hell, and there would be nothing you could do - ending up with an ice pick, if someone decided. To me, that is the most terrifying part of being a young woman then.

Mental and behavioral healthcare was still VERY archaic and hostile to the patient in those days, and the facilities were hell-holes at best. All I'm going to say about that is all the details are in that movie.

I just think that, of all the things about women living in that time, that is the one thing that would keep me from wanting to be young then.

Thanks to everyone for the great information - it's like catnip to history freaks!

dry manhattan: me, too. I romanticize the time because I'm, to name another drink, old fashioned and love the style and substance of the early 60's..but to actually have been there? I may have been where my mom was, getting shock treatments. Here's the deal, they helped her depression. The only thing that did help. But it lasted a few months and then she spiraled down again. It was brutal what she went through. I visited her with my dad at Iowa's state mental institution when I was 10 in 1971 and it was awful. I felt horrible for her. No coincidence I worked in mental health for 6 years here in Seattle. I couldn't help her but I sure wanted to make a difference for someone, anyone.

....Glamara.....At least three times a day on this forum, my mouth literally falls open at the childhood memories of the people. It very much makes me realize that the adversities I have always thought of as unique are pretty universal.

Your story is so hard to read...I can't imagine having gone through that, let alone your poor mom. Sounds like most of us on here have all had our crosses to bear. (Even Betty.)

Some of the stories are told so matter-of-fact, and are so gut-wrenching, I am very much humbled. How do you tell an anonymous stranger what that means?

Put that together with the guilty pleasure of the dates, times and places of the past, and the forum almost takes on a life of its own.... almost as important as the series itself. Certainly for me, the viewing experience would be very different without the excellent feedback on here.

I wonder if anything on television has ever had quite the same effect on its viewers. Roots,maybe? The early 60s isn't really one that's been done a lot...

"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful..." Wasn't that an ad campaign at one time? I think Betty's looks are threatening to many. She's vilified as a "self-absorbed bitch." Yet the reason she is falling apart is because she wants to hold her children's home together. Why does that make her self-absorbed? Often I've seen posts on different threads here where people gloatingly predict--and assume--that Betty will of course have an affair, as if that "proves" she is no better than Don. On the episode where her age was revealed, Joan said something about people wanting to drag you down to their level...as always, Joan knows the score.

Betty isnt going to have an affair, maybe next season, or maybe never. She loves Don, and I am more than sure she loves her children. I know she gets blasted for being a bad mother to both Bobby and Sally, but when she wants Don to spank Bobby I think she is doing it because she knows that Bobby is turning into his father, literally lying to her face. Do I think Bobby deserves to get a spanking, NO, he is just a kid, but I think Betty is letting her frustration out on the wrong person, because surprise surprise...Don is almost never home, so she cant confront him, so she takes out her anger on her child. Yes that is wrong, but I certainly dont see her as monster. Betty has alot of demons, and those demons are from her husband, and possibly Mother/Father. She was raised to grow up and live a life as a housewife, when she defied her parents and became a model in europe and manhattan, her mother would call her a prostitute, when she really should have been proud of her. I agree with Twiggy, Betty is trying to perserve her children's home together with both their parents. She also loves Don. If she didnt, she wouldnt be so depressed.

drymanhattan, As for the impact of this show, I've never joined a forum like this until MM, and I can't imagine watching the show without it. There are so many highly intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate people here, I feel fortunate to be a part of it.

The personal stories are bonding, to say the least.
We are a family, expressing our feelings and thoughts openly, far different from most of our families of origin.
You also mentioned evolving on another post. I believe we evolve every minute. We don't change dramatically, in a AHA! kind of way I used to naively think and counted on - serious disappointment there. Of course, such dramatic revelations do occur, but the result isn't instant transformation. It's subtle, and MM has
subtley mastered.
No wonder it resonates with us so strongly. The characters are evolving in the way we do..one step forward, two steps back, etc., unpredictably, disappointingly, honorably and so on. But always changing.
Okay, I'm laughing at myself, because I think it's taken me an hour and a half to compose this posting....if only I could get paid for doing this!
Cheers to you all, hope you have a great day.

.....Twiggy.....You are correct about the prejudice. Just one of many that haven't even made their way onto this board yet. Thanks for getting that whole evolution thing. Laugh if you want, but it's very true, particularly here.

And you are right about changing. That doesn't happen overnight but is rather an upward trend. Some days are forward-moving, and some days back. Committing to maintaining the upward trend is the goal. The cool part about it is having all these great voices to bounce off of....

The thing that stays on the top of my thought pile is this message Matt W. is pushing, which is that to be human is to defy categorization and prejudgment. Try as we might to pigeonhole a person or persons, Matt turns it upside down. For me, that very much carries over into this forum and constantly causes me to question myself.

I love the thread about Carla and Hollis, and think it was WAY overdue. (HINT!) I intend to be looking at that one as long as it goes.

One interesting observation about this list is how fascinating to watch the posters on here go through all kinds of changes which are almost exclusively positive. I strive to count myself in there too, and say thanks to everyone for a great forum.

Betty is emotionally a child, because she grew up in a time and a culture when women were seldom accepted as full adults in the masculine sense of the word. Her world is one that told women that their entire self-worth is based in their appearance, their ability to service their husband's sexual appetites, their ability to give birth, and the status of their home and belongings.

Since she is pretty, she is doomed to believe all of the crap that we once fed to women, since it's easy for her to believe that her value as a human being is high, based on the above criteria.

The only problem is that there is obviously much more to being a real human being than the antiquated way that society used to evaluate women, and the way that women used to evaluate themselves.

So of course Betty is depressed, as has been any woman who ever bought into the belief that they can only be defined superficially, and in a traditional heterosexual child rearing context.

She is easy to dislike, and her behavior is very discomforting, because she is a painful reminder of the depressing world that many women got all to easily caught up in not long ago; a world and a mindset that still lives on in many respects to this day.

I notice that Betty brings out the emotions in all of us. Myself included. And, it seems to be mostly from the mother or wife perspective. But, Joan, has many of us feeling a little protective of her. Or championing her. Why is that, I wonder? Joan is, after all, 'the other woman', while Betty is the cheated on wife. Not the same man involved, as far as we know, at least. But the circumstances are similar. I like Joan, I don't want her bashed any more than Betty, but why do we give Joan a pass? Or do we?

Betty is going to become a pill popping, wine drinking, child beating, burning bed, husband killing heroine. She almost always has a glass of wine in her hand. I think Don will use that against her to get back into the house. Carla will cover for her for a while longer, but I sense tragedy ahead.

Betty doesn't seem that depressed because she's now initiating sex with Don "to save the marriage." She regrets it right away and to hurt him says "it was pretend." She's good at manipulating and covering up her hurt a lot at all his affairs.She's also admitted Don is not there to her neighbor instead of hiding the fact or pretending which is what a Real 1962 Housewife would have done. When she switches from wine to vodka, look out, Don, you might get a frying pan thrown at you (at last!)

I'm glad I caught this thread because I have laughed at some of the hateful posts towards Betty, as if the posters really know her and have serious projection problems...weird.
The character of Betty is truly a product of the times. Raised to be wife and mother and merely decorative. The fact that her marriage and life is an illusion is slowly dawning on her. Her husband has humiliated her and nothing is what it seems. If that isn't worthy of depression than add feeling lonely and locked in your house all day...but that was expected of woman back then.
I am surprised she's thrown Don out, I didn't expect her to take such a stand. Usually couples held up a front for the sake of appearances

btw, I think these forums jump the shark when too much of people's personal issues/ bigotry bleed into the blog. I was surprised at how many posters flipped over Duck's dog a while back...it's a dog.. on a show.. with handlers waiting or it. The scene was sad because of the depths of lonliness and despair an old alcoholic succumbs to.
The shows' nuances are lost on some viewers who lack imagination. No character is black or white in development, but flawed and human. That's why the show is so interesting.

Betty confessing to Helen was beautiful. I think that bodes well for a more mature re-invention. The second she told Helen about Don, I thought, "thank god, she is finally talking to the right people."

My boss and I fight over Betty contstantly. I agree with smp65, that she is doing the best she can with the incredibly limited resources she was given. I'm really rooting for her to come out on top at the end.

So happy to see this!
The last couple weeks I have been so proud of Betty only to come on her and see her torn to shreds! I mean, C'mon! She was weak when she was ignoring him cheating, now she's cold 'cause she shutting him out?

I think everyone knows a woman like Betty, who's been in a situation like this. I can tell you, most women do not handle it with nearly as much strength and class as this lady.

Right now she is not giving Don anything. She's taking her first stand against him and although he's looking to get around her in every possible way, she is not budging. He's going to have to come through her the right way before she's lets him pass.

sorry, only to come on here not her

Betty is a TV character!!

We realize that mctwisty :)

The OP is a very well thought out written post as is all the other posts in this thread. It has been a delight reading the posts here.

I also love Betty. It didn't happen right away but somewhere along the line she become the most fascinating character on the show for me. She's the one character I'm rooting for the most. I have so much hope after listening to the writers and actors discussion on The Inheritance.

She's growing meanwhile that cheating husband of her is on the same path he's always been on, running away.

The way I see Betty is not as much a victim as some other people. After all, she was a model before she met Don. Which means she had to leave home (Philly) and pursue a career (NYC) that most women in those days did not (or could not because most women don't have Betty's exceptional looks). Most women were secretaries, nurses, teachers. Modeling is not an easy career choice - there is a lot of rejection you have to deal with all the time. It's not like getting a secretarial job and that's that. In modeling, you are constantly auditioning for jobs and being rejected much of the time (I'm guessing, Lord knows I've never been a model).

I just think she always wanted what every woman wanted back in those days - the ideal husband and family and she was willing to give up her career for that. Along comes Don, whom we all know is handsome and charming. Their courship was short (I believe they got engaged very quickly) so he must have swept her off her feet (he seems to have a knack for that). They get married and I'm sure she thinks she's on her way to happily ever after. Fast forward to a few years later: Don isn't exactly Prince Charming anymore and she has turned into a depressed housewife with 2 kids. She's probably wondering why she ever gave up her modeling career for this. Notice she tried to get back into it at one point. I was surprised Don allowed her to (he's so possessive and controlling), but then found out it was only because the ad agency was using Betty to try to get Don and he knew that.

My point is that Betty knows what it is like out there in the business world. She didn't just get married right out of high school like some girls back in those days. Having had experience in the business world has made her a stronger person, which I believe is one of the reasons she is starting to stand up for herself. She apparently made a living for herself when she was younger in a very difficult and competitive field, so she knows it can be done. I'd like to see Betty use her old modeling contacts to start a new career for herself - modeling, TV, movies, whatever. She should use her looks to her advantage while she still has them - she is only supposed to be 28, still young enough. If Betty became the new face of Chanel, she would become famous and be financially secure and have handsome men knocking down her door. I'd love to see how Don would squirm over that development.

Before tonight's episode, I thought I'd document how strange I found it that Betty did not make a sound when her father grabbed her breast. Not a peep....not even, "Stop!" All the noise came from Gloria and Don....

Betty could have been speechless, but in the commotion she continued to be frozen in disbelief (or familiarity)... I'm not sure what she was running from when she left home to pursue the modeling career her mother didn't approve of....but it is really unsettling to contemplate another one of Weiner's 'loose ends.'

I don't think Betty was sexually abused by her father - I think he is just senile and had a stroke and that is typical behavior in that circumstance. Don running over to protect her was a great scene. Hamm is a good actor. Think of how many emotions he displayed on his face in that one scene alone.

Don loves Betty, but I think he doesn't feel he deserves someone like her (considering he is really Dick Whitman and she doesn't know any of this). He saw he modeling, thought she was extremely beautiful and his idea of what the perfect wife and life would be. So he presented himself as someone else in order to get her to marry him. Now he must continue the pretense of being Don Draper for fear of losing her. Notice he takes great pleasure in giving her everything: the big house, new car, kids, country club lifestyle.

On the other hand, with his mistresses he feels they should already know he is a liar and a cheat because they are sleeping with him. Notice he always tells them he is married before they have sex (he interrupted a kiss with Rachel to tell her he was married). He doesn't have very much respect for his mistresses and it probably goes back to his own mother's situation with his father, who was married at the time his mother got pregnant.

I betcha Betty will get that desk drawer open now!

anyone here see the movie Mona Lisa Smile?

The only reason Betty continually attempts to open the desk drawer is that she has no proof of Don's infidelity, only suspicion. If Don left any incriminating evidence in the desk, it's because he wanted to eventually get caught.

i know this thread has been dead for a while, which sucks because betty is the only real family don has.

Poor Betty! She's the one who's been there for him, tried to understand him and support him and put up with all of his other crap. I'm glad she finally found a backbone! I think it was maybe not a good plot move to have her tell Don that she was pregnant and could have left us hanging about what she was going to do. But, knowing Mad Men, she may do it anyway...

Betty never gets any love or respect for her trials and tribulations. Don just keeps stomping all over her and telling her she's a child. But let's be realistic: Betty is living in her life. Don is playing at it. He whines to his "Ex wife" about how he can't get into his life...Oh whatever! grow up you big whiny baby! If he wants to get into his life instead of watching it happen, he should take a more participatory role. Like Betty said; life without him was pretty much like life with him...Don should get a clue next season so Betty can have a chance to be heartless towards him...then maybe a season of "Betty come back!" from Don???

Although truthfully, I think if a spouse cheats, the marriage is dead, but hey that's just me...

I missed the first few episodes and so don't know much about Don cheating on Betty.....Did he really do it? Who did he do it with? Whether he did it or not, Betty seems to me to have some mental problems - depression for sure, and possibly some delusions as well. She seems pretty robotic and cold- perhaps she is some kind of sociopath who is unable to really connect with others. If she does have mental problems (and I predict they will get worse and worse on the show), then her character reflects the sad state of affairs (before 1980) when most victims of mental illness could not get professional help, and ended up languishing and tormented in a mental institution for the rest of their lives. Sad indeed. Is this where Betty's character is headed? If so, BRAVO to the writers! I think this turn of events would show another important sign of those times- the institutionalization and lack of medical treatments for the mentally ill.

Does anyone remember the episode when she went outside in her night gown with a shot gun and started shooting at the birds? She did it so matter of fact. I knew right there that she had some mental health issues.

Well, if Don and Betty are back together next season, I can only hope with all the money Don has made with this SC merger that Betty gets a kitchen remodel. No wonder she is depressed !!! Can you imagine having to cook in that place?
The rest of the house is beautiful but that is the ugliest kitchen I have ever seen. Oh, I know that it was probably state-of-the-art for 1963, but it just doesn't go with the rest of the house. Those knotty pine cabinets !!! Awful.

I wonder what we still don't know about Betty? After the last episode, what more could we learn?

Betsy,

Foresight. Don Draper probably spent his youth in or knew of adjacent towns long gone economically. Journalism, you could say, is a guidepost to the time, whether the staged zeitgeist Mad Men provides the viewer evidence of the husband's dissatisfaction, or whether circumstances seem to evolve to where he prefers jazz artists who no longer employ piano players.

I used to feel sorry for Betty being married to Don but feel no sympathy for the character whatsoever. She is depressed but partly brought this on herself by refusing to show affection to her children or any emotions to anyone. Had she been working class without hired help her children would have been taken off her by now because of neglect re: that Sunday in episode 4 of series 2 where she forgets to feed the children. They've had no dinner because she and Don have had a late lie in and presumably no afternoon tea. The children are really hungry at 7 in the evening when she tells them to go to bed.

All she does when she's with her only friend, Francine, is bitch and gossip about other women while completely ignoring her children except to tell them and to wait until their father gets home. Can you imagine what that must feel like to a child. They would sooner have their punishment on the spot rather than quake in fear wondering how severe their father will be when he does get home. I'm so glad Don can't be bothered after a hard day at the office and does some time with the children chatting with them unlike Betty who dismisses all their questions.

Do you think Betty's illness might have started with postpartum depression, undiagnosed and untreated? I think this was fairly common with women of Betty's generation.

Betty hooking up in the bar..... Wow.

If Don could even imagine it he would be in free-fall
A bad boys worst nightmare.

Betty is hot enough but Don doesn't see it because he is so ashamed of his past. And Betty manipulates. Don is trapped but the new money will change it up a bit.

They need to be more of a team!!

After-all that Betty is still Don's greatest player!!!

Betty is HOT HOT HOT. ....Yes, I would have let her wear the yellow bikini....

Betty hooking up in the bar..... Wow.

If Don could even imagine it he would be in free-fall
A bad boys worst nightmare.

Betty is hot enough but Don doesn't see it because he is so ashamed of his past. And Betty manipulates. Don is trapped but the new money will change it up a bit.

They need to be more of a team!!

After-all that Betty is still Don's greatest player!!!

Betty is HOT HOT HOT. ....Yes, I would have let her wear the yellow bikini....

If Betty is going to be in many horseback riding scenes I wish they would make the horses look better. I suppose it would be nearly impossible to find an actress who can actually ride a horse but the least they could do is not braid Betty's horse's mane the way they do, because it looks stupid that way. Typically a horse's mane is not braided unless it's in a horseshow. In addition, the braids would not be hanging down, they would be tied up to make a short, neat loop. To make this possible, the mane should not be long and shaggy, but should be short and thinned. Betty always is impeccably dressed, they should make her horse look good too. Copy this link to see what a neatly braided mane looks like and how it's done:
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-exclusives/horse-mane-braiding.aspx

Pregnancy has turned Betty into an even more spoiled, materialistic bitch than she was before! What's going on here?

Haven't seen anyone comment on Betty's baby's daddy yet.
I was thinking that possibly the Dad will be her quick and dirty bar guy - didn't appear from that episode last season, that he stopped in the men's room to purchase a condom before taking her into the office on the couch. So I was thinking that could be a good twist- of course there was no DNA back then. It would have to be something where the baby is born ill and is not able to have a blood transfusion from either Betty or Don since Baby has its real daddy's blood type. This would then be an opportunity for Betty to tip over the edge in a real depression OOOORRRR... I heard that Betty may not be back next season. She may die in childbirth leaving Don to raise a child that is not his.....oh how history could repeat itself !!!

The playboy from the bar figures out who Betty is because he sees a picture of Don and Betty at a social event. He starts to pursue Betty!!

Don finds out goes ballistic and straightens out for a while.

I agree with the original message completely. It has already been said that we are not used to seeing a mother type not actively giving her whole life up for her kids, and I think it's refreshingly strange. I don't watch TV to have that warm fuzzy feeling, or if I do, I certainly don't watch Mad Men for it.
If you want wholesome fun-for-the-whole-family, turn on the Brady Bunch. This show is supposed to be controversial and engaging and dramatic. I personally enjoy watching Betty's struggle with depression and anxiety and sense of entrapment because its interesting. Of course, I would like to see her triumph over all of these issues, but for now I'm perfectly satisfied with watching her work out her life, not just be happy baking cookies all day.

Lemsip

I disagree. Although it is true that children would rather get their punishment on the spot, this is Betty's way of disciplining them. And oh no, she forgot to feed them dinner! If you saw that episode you would have noticed that the sky didn't fall and no one died because Sally and Bobby didn't eat anything that night.
And besides, its obvious that Betty has some form of depression, and she sees a shrink, but what does he do? Tell Don. Betty is trapped and is most likely taking it out on her children, the only thing she can control. And even though she is doing this, I still don't see any problems with her being a little hard on them occasionally. She is having a really hard time and has no help from Don in raising two children.

what I noticed for awhile in season one and two they were making Betty out too be fond of more than the occasional shot of wine during the day type, putting aside the use of cigarettes and booze during pregnancy apparently these were not thought of as risky even then, I would rather not see her become booze or drug addicted or even co dependent, we know she loves Don immensely she struggled with the distance he keeps between himself and everyne and the secrets he harbors about his real identity but I would have like too see her find all that out eventually, the storyline with the little boy crush that Glen had on Betty was somehow sweet and handled well and timely during the season it happened, I was curious about Glenns Mom and how she was going too makeout in circumstances eventually she was very interesting underwritten part, being ostracized and shut out by most of the married women in town, treated foreign over her divorced status and what a threat sho posed as far as husbands are concerned. I was glad when eventually she and Betty sat down and spoke and seemed too come too a truce and it was good.

the baby in the oven is Don's I want too point out because she already knew about her pregnant status when she was alone in a city bar and the anonymous sexual scene happened with handsome stranger,this may have been her getting back at Don in a way for the affair with the comedians wife but she did never reveal her indiscretion, also was the comedian based on like Lenny Bruce or some other famous Jewish comics of that era.?

Does anyone remember this scene from an episode back in season 1. Betty and Don were lying in bed at night and Betty told Don she looked forward all day to being alone with him at night. She said sometimes she couldn't think of anything else but that. Then she said "I want you so much." And Don said "you have me." Since that scene, there is no doubt in my mind that Betty truly loves Don.

She is a typical 50's-60's housewife, left a job (modeling) to become a stay at home mom. Yes, Betty is unhappy and depressed, but I think most of that has to do with the fact that she knows Don cheats on her. I love the character of Betty. She's beautiful and has class, but is still a very complex character. January Jones is great in the role - yes, she could play Grace Kelly in a biography.

So I'm very happy with the way season 3 is progressing so far. Don is behaving himself and showing a lot of love for Betty in the caring things he's done so far (making her warm milk, taking her dad in, kissing her when he knew she was upset at Roger's party). And he hasn't cheated!!

Jon Hamm was one of the reasons I started watching MM. He is great in the Don Draper role. But I was becoming less interested in MM due to his cheating ways in season 2. I hope Matt Weiner has decided to make Don less of a cad this season. After all, we have enough drama with his identity - Dick Whitman vs. Don Draper. And the other characters - Sal and Peggy. Love them both.

Hello, I'm new here.
I recently got into Mad Men this season and loved it. So I bought seasons 1 and 2.
@tangles16 I agree with everything above.
Jon Hamm was one of the main reasons I started watching the show as well. I immediatley loved Betty and their relationship.

I feel Betty is misunderstood. And after watching season 1 it's so clear she was very much in love with Don and happy with her life. It's only normal after all the BS Don has put her through for her to become increasingly disatisfied. She wants to be happy with Don. But Don is emotionally unavailable alot of the time. I feel for her character and the way she is taken advantage of.

It's frustrating how they give us nice scenes between them and then take it away!
Like the Valentines day scene where Betty is walking towards Don. It would seem to anyone he is doing so because he thinks she looks beautiful. Or this season he approaches her and kisses her. This also seems like an endearing gesture. But Matt Weiner has commented that he was looking at her and trying so hard to feel something for her, or as they kissed they imagined other people because they wanted to be with other people. You either have to watch Inside Mad Men commentary or be a mind reader to guess this. The most perceptive person would not be able to deduce that this is really what's going on inside their heads!

I actually didn't like that she got pregnant. She was holding her ground last time she found out about Dons infidelity. The pregnancy made her forgive him again. He hasn't cheated on her yet this season but he almost did with the stewardess. For a minute I thought he was going to with Sallys teacher. I was ready to throw something at my tv! lol.
If he does keep on, I would like for Betty to find out and divorce him once and for all. Don would hopefully realize he does want to be with her, prove himself wrong and CHANGE (He told Anna that people don't change)

I don't know what you call it, but when a married man is on a business trip (with his pregnant wife sitting at home) and has a stewardess in her underwear on top of him on the bed in his hotel room, it's considered cheating in my book.

After "Guy comes into an Ad Agency"

I'm very disturbed with how Betty treats her children like little robots. There is very little love shown, especially to her daughter. She barks orders at the children like a drill master.The children are always an afterthought.

After the death of Betty's father, the daughter had obvious problems as noted in school performance and attitude toward the new brother, yet the mother had no empathy whatsover. However, the comment to her son , "Go bang your head on the wall" and " Only boring people are bored" was rather extreme. After the daughter wakes up screaming and waking the baby in the middle of the night, Betty's reaction " I don't know what to say" was a clear indication of her indifference to her daughter's obvious fear. Betty is very self centered.

Her love is only for the baby at this time. This will probably change as he gets out of the "pig in a blanket" stage.

Having recently viewed some clips of Jon & Kate +8, it appears that Kate and Betty are from the same mold. You could literally place Kate in the role of Betty without skipping a beat.

Having grown up in this era, I know that children were "seen and not heard". We were expected to play on our own without any intervention from our parents... so be it. Maybe it made us stronger individuals, not having to be "entertained" 24/7. But cruel verbal retorts and lack of warmth were not part of the everyday scenario in most households.

Does anyone think the issue with Betty's hands in the first few episodes is the on set of a neurological disease or something? Betty also sounds, during those moments, to be talking with a lisp. Anyone else notice?

This is a very cool Vincent Kartheiser (Peter Campbell) interview - some really interesting behind-the-scenes insight on Mad Men where he discusses Betty and Don, plus a lot of personality on Vincent:

http://lostinasupermarket.com/2009/10/mad-mens-vincent-kartheiser-interview/

this one's a bit more personal about Vincent, but still really good read for MM fans:

http://lostinasupermarket.com/2009/10/mad-men%E2%80%99s-vincent-kartheiser-interview-pt-ii/

I've said it before many times that we need to view this show with eyes from back then.
If I had a nickel for everytime my Mom told us to bang our head against the wall, I could buy Sterling Cooper! That remark was very common back then, as was Betty's style of parenting. I have no doubt she loves her kids. Times were just very different then.

OK, I believe I understand where the writers of the show are going with Betts' charater. They are leaving small clues here and there. Betts slept with Don when they visited her Dad despite the fact that their marriage was in serious trouble. She initiated the move. Then a child is born - Gene. Her daughter says it looks just like her grandpa. Now, Betts is attracted to an older man. I am not certain but this looks to me like Betts will end up going through some serious therapy. I think she was being abused by her father.

Okay. I admit it. I am a Betty hater and a Don fan.
I think the comment Betty makes about the Civil Rights movement in a season 3 episode shows just what she's about. That line was definitely put there by the writers for a revealing of her character.

Compared with other female characters in the show (Joan, Peggy, Trudy, ...), I find Betty hardly has any merits for me to even respect her. I wish she's gone forever in the next season.

Hello friends! I'm a doll fashion designer and a big fan of MAD MEN.
I made several fashions-reproductions of Mad Men women's fashions for Barbie size dolls :)

I'm selling Joan's blue dress on eBay right now, here's the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280460007354&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
(Pen-necklace, bracelet and watch are included)

More MAD MAN fashions' reproductions (Joan, Betty and Peggy dresses) will appear in the March/April 2010 issue of Haute Doll magazine!

Don’t miss it out! I will sell them on eBay later :)

Betty's treatment of her children astound me more and more especially in the Episode 'Man walks into an advertising agency'. Don has more understanding of how his children feel despite hardly being at home. It's just basic empathy towards the feelings of others and children.

She lies in bed during the day with the new baby
neglecting her other children when she could have been sitting on the sofa instead with the new baby while talking to the children and suggesting things for them to do. It's OK to say 'only boring people get bored' to adults and teenagers but not to young children.

Sally doesn't get pocket money so has to ask for everything. She's mature for her age so doesn't appreciate getting a Barbie doll from her new brother. She figures out that he's too young to have written the card so her mother said he told the fairies to. That she didn't believe.

It's probably unlikely that Betty hasn't read Dr Spock and if she had she would have tossed that book aside as rubbish. I wouldn't be surpised if she had been influenced by the works of Truby King instead either directly or indirectly.

Betty's treatment of her children astound me more and more especially in the Episode 'Man walks into an advertising agency'. Don has more understanding of how his children feel despite hardly being at home. It's just basic empathy towards the feelings of others and children.

She lies in bed during the day with the new baby
neglecting her other children when she could have been sitting on the sofa instead with the new baby while talking to the children and suggesting things for them to do. It's OK to say 'only boring people get bored' to adults and teenagers but not to young children.

Sally doesn't get pocket money so has to ask for everything. She's mature for her age so doesn't appreciate getting a Barbie doll from her new brother. She figures out that he's too young to have written the card so her mother said he told the fairies to. That she didn't believe.

It's probably unlikely that Betty hasn't read Dr Spock and if she had she would have tossed that book aside as rubbish. I wouldn't be surpised if she had been influenced by the works of Truby King instead either directly or indirectly.

My parents were the Drapers--although my father didn't have affairs looking for real human warmth, he did work from 8am to 5pm, come home to eat with us, and go back to work til 10pm. Sunday was his only day off. Sometimes he would go for 6 weeks to India or South America or Africa or DC, leaving my mother alone without help and three "lively" kids and a house to take care of in a neighborhood she hated. But, as I watch the story progress, I hope so much that Betty's heart will open and she'll love Don the way the teacher did-tenderly and intimately and richly. My parents came to see and understand themselves and each other. They made it: the Drapers can, too.

My parents were the Drapers. Dad didn't have affairs, but he worked all day, came home for dinner, and went back to work until late at night. Sometimes he would be go to India or South America or Africa or DC for over a month at a time, leaving my mother with two "lively" kids and no help in a neighborhood she hated--and she had been brought up the princess of the family, with two older brothers. But my parents were able through the years to see themselves and each other, and they really made it together. I hope Betty can see herself, open her heart, and give Don the understanding, caring, freeing love he's so pathetically desperate to find. My parents made it: they can. Otherwise, it's a typical, trendy, predictable post-modern story like the ones I hate to but do teach college students year after year...

I see many commenters saying they don't think Betty was molested but no arguments in the affirmative, so I'll provide one. We left the realm of clues when Sally woke up screaming because she thought that baby Gene would grow up to be exactly like Grandpa Gene. Don was perplexed and concerned, Betty was dismissive, which is to say threatened. Don is poking around the family closet. "She's a child. She'll get over it," Betty hisses. This indicates the character believes she is over her own molestation. Victims of sexual abuse often enable abuse risks for their own kids. There's no other storyline this scene would fit. I thought this would be obvious to more viewers because talk shows have been openly addressing childhood sexual abuse for almost 30 years. Is it not a commonly known statistic that at least 1 in 4 American girls are sexually abused at some time in their lives? Perhaps not. Viewers might be familiar with seeing this or that celebrity discuss their childhood sexual abuse, but only recently are we following leading dramatic characters of this kind. Moreover, Mad Men gives us a multi-generational portrait of abuse. Bravo to the writers. It will be interesting to see if they chose to maintain the abuse storyline as an undercurrent or if they deliver a conclusive dramatic climax. If Don never finds out that Sally was abused, if Betty doesn't recognize she suffered as well, and the characters never face what has happened, that is the way this often plays out in real life.

I find the story line for Betty in the first episode of season 4 disturbing. While I can relate as she is very similar to my mother and when I was Sally's age I too was closer to my father, I came to understand that it was my father's behavior that caused much of my mother's anger. When he was not around she was a happy and delightful person but he exerted some negative influences upon her. I would love to see the story line demonstrate that Don's behavior damaged this women. The writers for this show need to talk to women and the daughters of women from this time period to understand both their hard choices and how destructive to a person's integrity and quality of relationships with others when the one they are closest to lies and deceives them at every turn. Don't be afraid to make Betty as complicated as Don. Turn to the women in your lives to understand Betty better.

The thing I find most interesting about Betty is how similar her story is to so many women of the time. After reading "The Feminine Mystique" and the intro to Stephanie Coontz's up coming book "A Strange Stirring" it really show what women went through. The women of the time were just as unhappy and just as sad by life as Betty, and to think our Mothers and Grandmothers where these women, it's shocking.

I think Betty is Matt Weiner''s major failing in character development on this show. He hasn't worked out who Betty is supposed to be, either intellectually or psychologically. Either that or he is saving her story for later in the series. Meanwhile, January Jones has been able to project the outer Grace Kelly aspects of the character, but she is not a good enough actress to create a fully-realized character, especially given the sketchy, sometimes bizarre, material she's had to work with so far over the past 4 seasons.

The character of Betty Draper, especially as played by Ms. Jones, would never have gone to Bryn Mawr - more likely to Pine Manor Junior College, which was where well-bred, pretty Main Line Philadelphia girls of modest intellectual attributes would have gone in those days. Maybe she would have been at Smith or Mount Holyoke, but surely not Bryn Mawr. Jones does not project intelligence; nor has there been any indication that the character of Betty is particularly smart. Bryn Mawr in the '50's was the most highly competitive - next to Radcliffe - of the Seven Sister women's colleges. Moreover, Betty's family, as cast, didn't resemble the upper crust Main Line society of the mid-20th century. It's hard to imagine this Betty Draper is suffering the same sort of suburban angst that drove Betty Friedan to write The Feminine Mystique in he early '60's. Perhaps Betty's issues with her father and her kids will be satisfactorily explored in seasons to come. Until then, the character will remain an unsympathetic enigma.