Yes! The rise of SDS and existentialism. So excited! Love the ending, funny and depressing simultaneously.
Also, Ken is the new love of my life. I so dig blondes.

Who is the blonde who asked for Don Draper in the auto sales lot? A long-lost former lover of the old Don Draper's, separated by war? I can't wait for this plot line to be resolved!

Way to go Jimmie! He is using Bobbie, just the way she is using him. I wonder if she knows.

This episode could be named "Ugly Betty"! First she leaves the trash in the picnic area ... then, well, in the ar.

I love the glimpses of pre-advertising Don. This is getting good. I was expecting Bert Cooper to ask if maybe, now that Don will be getting more exposure, is there anything in his past that could come back to bite them.

I love Joan, but really loved Jane giving a little right back to her ("I don't need a mother, I'm 20"!).

Poor Sal ... I love his wife though, & want to see Ken with his own storyline (gay or not, though I doubt he is).

As always, the episode is over ... and I'm wanting more!

Salvatore Romano is so much more gay than he was in Season 1.

It is uncomfortable.

IJMVHO, that is.

Sharon:
Cooper knows already --- unless he IS becoming senile -- that Don is Dick Whitman.
MadShrubbery-: go post on my thread about this!!!

So we delve deeper into Don's past with the blonde at the auto sales. Was she a long lost friend of Draper's? And I think Jane is really pushing it with Joan. My money is on Joan. LOVED the ending! Jimmy telling Don off was great and Betty puking in his new car was awesome! So, on previews for next week's episode, Betty tells a man he doesn't know her and she knows what kind of man he is. Is she talking to Don, or my bet would be Jimmy. Can't wait for next week!

Sal's acting is so good. He gives off just enough gay vibes to be a believable closet case. He better be careful about his crush on Ken. It was definitely NOT ok to be gay back then. Even in a "creative' business like advertising. Plus Ken seems to be very straight.

( i mean, betty in the Car - at the end!)

Where is the marijuana and drugs? There was only one scene last season with pot. This is the 60s!

Jim: Oh, I know Bert knows Don is somebody else, but I don't think he knows any of the backstory (just like we don't). You'd think he'd want to avoid a potential scene with, say, a woman toting a 12-yr-old kid into a Folk Art Museum fundraiser marching in & slapping Don! Not that he'd care what happens to Don/Dick, but he would want to preserve his company's rep.

i think the woman who showed up at the car lot is probably a family member or wife etc of the real don draper. remember, the war is over yet the real don draper hasn't shown up, and obviously the family hasn't gotten bad news or anything. they're probably looking for him. i don't think any of us has ever actually thought of that.

How poignant -- it is Ken who writes a story and entrusts it to Salvatore about an artistic creation perfect in every way except it can't perform. That thread tonight was just great. I loved how Salvatore recovered so beautifully. He is actually not covering with Kitty-- he feels badly that she's hurt. And the actress portraying Kitty senses something is wrong. But this is 1962 and he is so ready to make it all up to her. And as usual the perfect detail, the lighter, Ken's lighter. Man what a show.

The look on Sal's face when Ken said "you're not like everyone else here." And Sal's response that he is.
The suprise that Sal showed when Ken expressed his feelings about Cooper's painting.
Ken lighting Sal's cigarette, leaving the lighter, and Sal finding it and keeping it like it was a treasure. I think we are in for an interesting ride!

Sharon: That does sound bad, but desertion and fraud by one of the hottest creative directors on Madison and Lex and a SC partner to boot would be pretty bad. I think Bert is telling Don its okay. Perhaps more has been revealed by Don to Bert in the 18 month break.

But clearly his memory of the car lot and being "found" led to his running out of the Cadillac dealership and Bert's okay about entering the power elite, even with what he knows about him, sends Don back to the dealership with certainty that he can buy the car.

Here's a scary thought for our already twisted protagonist: What if Cooper doesn't remember the Don-Pete confrontation at the end of 1960 in Coop's office?

Jane is a big time liar! Telling Joan that the "boys" made her go to Cooper's office.
And lying about seeing Roger after Joan fired her. WOW fireworks are there, Joan has met her match!!

And poor Bobby! He comes back from peeing behind the tree, says "I did it!!" and both Don & Betty COMPLETELY ignore him. Wow, I felt so bad again for this kid. Then Don fires his beer can off into the distance! Littberbugs, big time! And I hadn't realized how grand their home is, until the camera panned away while they are sitting in the new caddy.

Betty becoming physically ill after hearing about Bobbie and Don, and vomiting in the new Caddy Coupe D' Ville? Classic!

Well what about those come-uppences??? Had a feeling the Barrett was up to something when he called at the end of the show last week. And he dangled a very big carrot to get them both there at the same time so he could drop his bomb. That was a breathtaking confrontation.

Now Joan got hers by the little upstart 20 year old. And frankly, she deserved what she got in spades. Move over Joan there's a new fox in the henhouse.

Hi Sassy! You're right, I felt bad for the kid too. I was disgusted at the littering too, but, I don't think it was as big a deal then as now.

Well what about those come-uppences??? Had a feeling the Barrett was up to something when he called at the end of the show last week. And he dangled a very big carrot to get them both there at the same time so he could drop his bomb. That was a breathtaking confrontation.

Now Joan got hers by the little upstart 20 year old. And frankly, she deserved what she got in spades. Move over Joan there's a new fox in the henhouse.

How fitting was it that Betty hurled in the new car, not long after Don's insistance she make sure the kids hands were clean before they got in. And what about leaving their garbage on the picnic ground for someone else to clean up?

Well what about those come-uppences??? Had a feeling the Jimmy Barrett was up to something when he called at the end of the show last week. And he dangled a very big carrot to get them both there at the same time so he could drop his bomb. That was a breathtaking confrontation.

Now Joan got hers by the little upstart 20 year old. And frankly, she deserved what she got in spades. Move over Joan there's a new fox in the henhouse.

How fitting was it that Betty hurled in the new car, not long after Don's insistance she make sure the kids hands were clean before they got in. And what about leaving their garbage on the picnic ground for someone else to clean up?

Hi Dixiegirl! I think Joan can handle her. What cracked me up was Jane telling Joan she didn't need a mother, but, obviously she needed a father, she went right to good old Roger to cry and tell what mean Joan did to her!

60's child: Good catch about the painting opinion by Ken--and Sal's reaction to it is great and so telling: "Did someone tell you that?" Sal asks after being floored by the comment.

I don't know if it will be "interesting" for Sal. I think it will be just very, very sad. Stonewall is still at the other end of the decade. And he is still far, far from even looking for the closet door. Not that anyone will be coming out of it until the 70's.

What is amazing about this show is how every character is drawn so well, with such care. I loved when the week after Harry got the TV department and the $25 a week more storyline---the next week in "Palm Sunday" Duck asks "Why is he here?" Pointing to Harry who says, "I'm the head of the television department." Small, great choices.

The closet on this show will not be "Three's Company" gags as melodrama. There will be no drunken "move" by Sal for Ken at a Christmas Party. Sal will suffer and it will inform his art and his work and it will be true to the times.

He's the gay Don Draper. Just like Peggy is the female Don Draper. Of course the injustice of the time is that Don's committed the real crime, but all three must live secret lives.

Great stuff.

Dixiegirl, I totally agree ... I got that from the earlier previews too. Jimmy set the stage, but Don didn't have to be SO predictable in leaving Betty alone. If he hadn't, Jimmy might not have gotten the chance to be Jimmy. But like he said, he's grown up behind guys like Don his whole life .... so he probably knew he'd leave gorgeous Betty alone. Perfect!

Oh Christ,
sorry for the multiple posts.

Sassy: Of course as a parent today, I'd say "great job" to bobby, my wife and I cheer every little thing with our kids. So do our friends. And we'd clean up our stuff. But this is 1962. And so we get a compendium of reminders of how different a time it was. Don grew up in a total hell as a child, and Betty also seemed to have a very picky, critical mom. It's hard for us to see them like this, but given their pasts and the era, they aren't especially awful. Heck, remember the birthday party with the father hitting another guy's kid? This is why so many people were so screwed up later. Not to get political, but these are the halcyon days one political party keeps looking to re-instate well into the 21st century. Scary.

Anti-Semitism...one more reason for me to dislike the SAB character! Oh, she'd truly hurl to know Don slept with the Ravishing Rachel! Bwahahaha!

Don in that tux/dinner jacket/whatevs=teh sex!!!

Don=teh sex!! Rowr!

Don is no prize as a father but he at least exhibits some caring for those children. Betty is a rotten mother. She's cold, cold, sub-zero. I do however love the hair-trigger hurl in the car.

"Eve Harrington" is a zombie and she's just been waiting to show up on Joan's doorstep as Jane!

Hi 60s child: I love Joan but she's getting pretty heavy handed in protecting her turf. Also, Joan is what? 32-34. Considered almost over the hill at the time. She's feeling very threatened.

Hi Jim K: "Heck, remember the birthday party with the father hitting another guy's kid? This is why so many people were so screwed up later. Not to get political, but these are the halcyon days one political party keeps looking to re-instate well into the 21st century. Scary."

Great point. One of the reasons I love this show so much is the anti-nostalgia aspect. A lot of the late 50s and early 60s have been so romantisized when it was a really very ugly in many respects.

Do you think Betty is also pregnant?

The look on Don's face when confronted by Jimmie about his affair with Bobby--priceless! Betty's passive aggression throwing up in the new car--priceless again! And Jimmie's parting comment to Betty --I can't remember it word for word--about him being a lowlife comedian. Alot in this episode to enjoy!

HI Shrimpgumbo: On the flip side, watching Jane Siegel in those JFK era clothes does make me re-thing what I thought of them as a teen in the bra-less late 70's and early 80's. Now I can appreciate how hot they were.
But alas, I don't think Sarah Palin was calling for a return to Jackie Kennedy style fashion ...

JimK said: But alas, I don't think Sarah Palin was calling for a return to Jackie Kennedy style fashion ...

Not Jackie, but the pre-60's mindset where men were men and women were, well chattell. It is captured so well in this show. With all the secret tortured lives that kind of environment promulgates.

A 1962 Cadillac de Ville- $6,500.00

A fine for littering like the Draper's - $500.00

Betty puking in Don's new Cadillac de Ville- PRICELESS!

some points of note for this episode:

did you notice don during the picnic actually admitted being from a farm, as in he willingly let betty in on his past. and it also reminded me of last season when he brought roger home all drunk for dinner and roger said something about, the way you drop your g-s id've thought you were brought up on a farm. don avoided the whole thing then. but now he's giving more to betty. but is it too late..

you have don, who is trying his best to be better, yet as the episodes move along betty is actually seeing less of that, and seeing more bad. before, it was backwards. she saw only good, and was oblivious to the bad. now, he actually makes an effort to be good, but she's oblivious now to the good and only sees the bad. everything is backwards.

now if you want to be overanalytical, which with this show you absolutely always can which is part of what makes it great, it's actually sally that is the catalyst that brings that out in don, not betty.
i wouldn't be surprised, especially after the shoving episode where right before that betty says basically she's here all day with them, trapped and outnumbered and he gets to come home and be the hero when he's not even there, if later on another plotline develops about betty actually being jealous of her own daughter regarding don.

what cracked me up, beside the obvious, oh that's so wrong, about betty and the picnic trash, is that betty is a wanna-be society type. she started tasting wine last year, and this year she wants to do more of the dress-up outings with don etc. yet, she just tosses the trash.

ad one of those obscure pointless things that cracked me up was when they didn't know where bobby was, don says, is he in the car again. you just knew something bad was gonna happen but it's actually funnier that it didn't. it reminded me of last week when betty was in her swim outfit at the kitchen table, before don comes in. sally was at the table eating breakfast ready for the day, yet bobby strolls through the kitchen with a bucket on his head.

and ahh jane vs joan. simliar names, other things common between them, not a coincidence. what a triangle. obviously roger is being a guy in using his power to shmooze on jane, but he's also using jane to get back at joan. roger can't have his way anymore, so he can't take it. sex is both a weapon and a tool.
but i'm starting to like jane. not to sound like a mad men character, but: she's dumb, but she's not dumb.

the moral of the story is, one of the best overall themes this show has is about exploring the idea of dichotomy.

Not "promulgate" but promotes or is the result of mores of the late 50's.

Dichotomy indeed, even the opening with the character falling amongst the skyscrapers and overly large womens legs (like times square ads), done in black and white...Don is a rising star /worthy of rubbing elbows with power broker philanthropists, but falling /failing personally, and on and on .
Great storytelling.

I was disappointed in seeing Peggy return to her plain drab clothes at the office and that no one mentioned her night out with the boys from last week.
The littering brought back memories, that is the way it was back then. Remember Lyndon Johnson hasn't started his Do Not Litter campaign yet.

I kept waiting for Betty to say something, to confront Don in the car on the way home, what happened instead totally startled me. It made me laugh. His precious car! Remember when he told her to check the kids' hands before they got into the new car?

Was the coffee campaign supposed to be mirroring a real life coffee campaign from the early 60's? I couldn't think of any.

I see that the title of the episode is The Golden Violin. I incorrectly guessed that it was going to be something like "Modern Feelings" since that came up two times, once when Ken was describing the Rothko and another time when the young ad men were talking about their generation. It was all about what they felt at the moment. About being.

Jim K: I can get just a little sentimental about some of the clothes until I remember how uncomfortable they were. And I was about 95 lbs dripping wet and still expected to wear a girdle. The joke was if you were thin and didn't need one you still had to wear it and if you were heavy it just pushed the fat up and down. LOL!

The extreme littering in the park did not ring true with me. I was around Sally's age in 1962, and my parents and brother and I picnicked in parks frequently. I never saw littering like that! My parents would never have allowed it! I think there is just as much if not more littering now. There are more fast-food joints now so there are more littering opportunities. The only difference now is more public awareness, and fines (which are rarely imposed).

On another note, kudos to the costume department. Sally's pajamas in the bathroom scene with Don (last week's episode) were perfect! I had a pair just like them. Soft cotton with balloon-like elasticized pants. Weird how after all these years I can still remember how soft and comfortable they were in the summer. It was a couple of years before my parents installed air-conditioning.

That Comic is unfunny as hell!

I'll have to say I am liking Jane's character more and more too because of the tension she creates w/ Joan. She's also the perfect little naughty girl like everyone loved to hate in high school and college. You know ladies, the girl who was always up to something, but could always manipulate her way into being the innocent one?
I loved it when she went on in the elevator w/ Ken and Sal saying,"We could have stolen it you know," about the painting.
Sal seemed even pleasantly amused by her naughtiness when he asked,"Who are you????"
I think we'll be seeing more antics from Jane. Too funny!

I can bet there will be plenty of post regarding the littering Drapers and the political incorrectness of it all, but I hope we can discuss what it means vs. the fact that we hate littering.
It was a recurring theme-garbage and things we don't need but have to possess anyway. I liked how the writers even had Jimmy Barrett calling Don "garbage". It all fits so perfectly.
Hopefully, we won't have too many upset feeling over the act of littering (which I also hate with a passion) and we can talk about the symbolism behind it.

I'm glad Joan, who's been dead to me since insulting Sheila, got someone that's just as "vampy" as she was. Shouldn't Joan be flashing her ring and making wedding plans instead of bugging Jane?

Here I go again, nit-picking the authenticity of things: I truly don't remember anyone really saying 'have a nice day' as Betty did to the comedian on the phone. This happened the same time as the yellow smiley-face in the late 60's. Same for the IBM 'Selectric' typewriter, which I don't recall using until about 1970, but distinctively saw in use in the typing pool? The person that asked 'where were the drugs'? Also a late 60's phenomenon, at least with wide media coverage, though I hear prevalent with an artsy beatnik community back East. They were 50's-60's hippie precursors.

Yes, MicheleS, it's hard not to nitpick when you actually were there. Something I have noticed is 3 people now have said "Look at you," as a kind of exclamation--Roger, Joan and tonight the car salesman. Maybe it's a New York thing, but I lived through the 60s without ever hearing anyone say that once.

Last week Don confronted himself in his mirror, and this week the comedian confronted him. It's true that only "garbage" sleeps with another man's wife, but even lower that that is the wife sleeping with another man (I'm in my 60s frame of mind now). I'm not sure that Don sleeping with Bobbie (is that her name?) rings completely true. She wanted him more than he wanted her, and he is a real control freak, especially with women (remember the season 1 episode where he said, in a meeting with others, "no woman talks to me like that!") Although maybe he slept with her because part of him is so self destructive.

I like that Ken wasn't sure he could call Kitty to thank her for dinner because he didn't know if that was considered okay in Italian households but that Jimmy had no problem picking up the phone to call Betty.

I don't remember littering to the extent the Drapers did in the park but I DO remember my mom dumping out the car ashtray onto any parking lot we happened to be in.

Also, Don tells the guy from Martinson coffee that young people don't drink coffee - this must have been before the popularity of "beatnik" coffee houses & poetry readings, huh?

I don't see where Jimmy picks up on Don+his wife. After all, by the time of the party Bobbie and Don had a falling out so the idea that they radiate sleeping together seems a bit much. Perhaps he knows via Bobbie's actions alone though.

I think many people here are too hard on Betty. She wants her marriage to work. She's beautiful, she cares, she's faithful and this is in a day and age where that's more expected. Meanwhile Don insults her fairly frequently and cheats on her. I would never say the things he says to his wife (of course if that was my wife I'd never get out of bed! ;-)

Man, for a guy in a glass house Don sure throws a lot of bricks.

Are Don and Betty finally going to discuss his infidelity?! Betty seemed shocked to hear that Don was cheating with Bobbie and didn't know it until that moment, but her only comment to comedian was that he's "crude" - she finds it unseemly to discuss the painful and the obvious. And at last, someone has directly confronted Don on the issue, repeating Don's own internal thoughts that he's "garbage". I'm not sure that Betty heard the comedian's comments to Don, but perhaps they'll get to a breaking point in the next episode.

The Joan/Jane feud was fascinating. I don't think that Jane is the new Joan (she's got a lot to learn before she reaches that level) but it's kinda nice to see the Queen Bee's power be questioned. It definitely went along with the "gender gap" issue, highlighted by the storyline with the younger ad guys and the coffee ad. The younger generation will always try to usurp control from the older one, but you have to be clever and gutsy about it, and I don't think Jane was very clever. Hopefully Joan sticks to her guns regarding Jane.

Lastly, it was nice to have a storyline about Sal. His crush on Ken could have some interesting effects on their working relationship. Also, I love Sarah Drew as Kitty, Sal's beard - she was great on "Everwood" and very compelling in this role as well.

Loved the lyrics of the song playing over the closing credits: "Break it to me gently, let me down easy......." what a crack up. I'm not sure of all the lyrics or what the song was, but very apt!

I think Jimmy was clued in to Bobbie and Don when he showed up to "thank" Don for the Utz backing on their new show a couple of episodes ago..

I was surprised that Jimmy "cared" enough that Bobbie was screwing someone. As he said to Don to paraphrase "you think you're the only one?". If that's true, why care that Don is one of a long list of many? I didn't get that exception at all. If his wife has always been unfaithful or using sex to advance HIS career, why care that it was Don? The only reason I can think of in this instance is that it might have been different for Bobbie (and another man), because SHE cared too much or was "emotionally involved" when it came to Don.

Poor Betty. Her self-deception/denial finally caught up with her and bit her in the ass. There's no denying that she's married to an immoral creep, and she has someone like Jimmy Barrett to point it out to her!

Betty has obviously suspected Don is cheating on her for a while but - especially back then - it's one thing to privately suspect it, it's something else entirely to have someone else suspect it & point it out to you. It's a lot harder to be in denial when others see what you don't want to see.

My thoughts and comments about this episode...
I really like Sal, and I truly feel sorry for him having to hide his sexuality, but many gay men got married as a cover back then, to appear normal. I think he loves Kitty and you could tell he really felt bad when he realized how hurt she was. But man oh man, he definately has a crush on Ken, who I think is totally straight and nothing will come of it.

About Betty vomiting in the car... my first thought was she might be pregnant. But I also remember her saying to Jimmy that she has already had too much to drink, altho she didn't look drunk.
As far as Don and Betty littering at the picnic....it was done all the time, everywhere. Littering never became a big no no until the 70's Anyone remember the commercial about the Indian looking around and seeing all the litter and then you see a tear rolling down his cheek?

http://www.retrojunk.com/details_commercial/7072/

And how bout the showdown between Joan and Jane? When Jane says "is there a problem" and that little smirk comes across her face...you could tell Joan just wanted to reach out and b**ch slap her. But she kept her cool. I think there will be more run-ins between those two, at least we all hope so.

Can't believe there's only 4 more episodes with still a lot to uncover!

jamm54 - The song is "Break it to Me Gently" by Brenda Lee

Betty's not pregnant - Don can't get it up with her! I think she has made herself delusional and really thought that Don had been faithful of late. She seemed shocked when Jimmy talked about Don and Bobbie, and she made herself sick obsessing about it while having to sit in the same car with the two-timing jerk.

I felt bad for her and Sal - both in loveless marriages. I'm not sure who's more pathetic... the gay man who can't be true to himself and has to work with the object of his secret crush or the housewife who had to go to therapy with a dirty shrink and can't stop her husband from straying.

Hey Swanky K that was a great point about the theme running through the show about "garbage". I definitely had a laugh when Don was not only dissed by Jimmy behind his back...but also to his face. How long will Betty keep verbally silent about what Jimmy told her? I also think that both Jimmy & Bobbi handle all their sexual trysts the same way. She makes the deals & uses her feminine assets to make the close. While he goes "behind" her back to make sure the "deal maker" only doesn't continue once the contracts are "signed". How else do you explain them being together so long in a win/win situation? The point Shrimpgumbo made about Joan's turf...Jane is"crude". She may have seemed to put Joan in her place...for now. Use what you got to get the "guys" to jump through hoops (especially Roger). In an office, plain & simple. people talk, use some discretion. Her little antics will backfire for Roger as well as the other guys in the office. Roger for all his affairs keeps his wife & kids believing he's a fairly good husband & father. And as for Jane's comment(joke) about "stealing the painting"...That kind of person I would be very weary of. Especially after just "breaking" into Cooper's office? Then later lying later that the guys forced her? I think she would actually go as far as stealing money or something else from the office and blaming someone else. I did enjoy all the twists in this episode. I have to watch again see what other innuendos I may have missed. Can't wait till next episode!!

The 2 things that got me riled up:

1) All the garbage the Draper's left in the park! I was screaming at my TV.

2) When Jimmy called Don's spade. HA!

I hope Sal does not hit on Ken ... let's "drag" it on for awhile

Did anyone else see Salvatore's mother? She was sleeping in the scene with Kitty doing embroidery. Apparently, she does now live with them.

Betty's anti-semitic remark to Jimmy made me think of how often these type remarks come out as the result of an emotional hurt. I was rather surprised it was Betty, but she can be hurt emotionally like everyone else, can't she?

Watch the checkers on the board when little Bobby runs up and announces he has to pee, and when he returns to say he did it. These are the only two shots where the checkers are lined up in rows. Other views of the board show the game in-progress.

I apologize for accusing Weiner of deliberately obscuring who Jimmy was talking to in his, "I go home at night and laugh" speech. It was not deliberate...and I was stunned he was talking to Don. I certainly mis-judged the bulldog nature of napoleonic complex-driven revenge...

Loved Salvatore's apartment, Kitty's dress (which matched his sports jacket and tie) and that beautiful apron....

I have to watch the episode again to see how Duck and Don worked together to land the Martinson coffee account...

Betty can't hold it in any longer...Glad I missed similar scenes mentioned from the Sopranos...once was enough!

I thought Betty looked pregnant too!
Remember, they progress by months so it is possible she could be 4 months. Also, he can get it up with her, if it's after he wakes up from an arousing dream.

Jane was a nice parallel for the young creatives who pitched the coffee ad. She basically repeated to Joan a lot of the same sentiments and her attitude is just like those guys said: wants to discover things herself, idealistic, does not want to follow the generation that came before her.

Did anyone notice that it was Rachel Menken's father looking at the other car in the show room? Did anyone else recognize him?

More later...

I find it very sad that anti-Semitic and racial remarks, such as the ones made by SAB and Joan respectively, are so easily dismissed and excused. Guess it's because those shitty comments were uttered by glamorous females instead of creepy guys in hoods. I'll go so far as to say that "casual" racism/anti-Semitism displayed is much more insidious and, therefore, much more dangerous.

I know it has been brought up before, but Joan's chest is insanely huge. Her hips are growing also. She looks odd...and uncomfortable. Great episode though...one of the best I think.

Agree. Not sure people said "look at you" in the early 60s. However there was a line from the movie "Some Like it Hot" that gay men used over and over again. "See how you are!"

I think Jane is awesome. She lives in the village. She knows how to fend for herself. She doesn't flirt back with all the guys she gets attention from. And she knows how to have fun. She's the new generation man, she's cool and hip unlike Joan who is old school -- getting married because of tradition, because of custom. Jane's out gallavanting about and I like it.

Ken is hot stuff man. He's deep, a writer, a sexy beast.

Betty is totally antisemetic. She's so naive, it's like why can't she just grow up already?

Don's got it coming to him man, he's in trouble big time. Becoming less and less of a fan of him. He's might be a nympho.

Also, interestingly enough, someone stated above that cooper might not remember about don's past. This may be a real possibility. He might be suffering from alzheimers, especailly when he asked "where were we again" at the meeting with harry. He might genuinely be losing his mind. So excited for next week. They need two hours for the show!!!

@Andrea....Love your "Don the nympho" line! Too funny!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

Visan: It's a story set among mostly WASP's in 1962. Thus the racial and ethnic commentary should be "dismissed" if you want to term it that. The characters are of their time and we can "dismiss" their behavior, however saddening without second thought because it reflects, through character the era being portrayed.

Getting worked up over the lack of disapproval over such comments by WASPs in early 60's America is like demanding they take slavery out of "Gone With The Wind," because it is illegal today.

Me, I'm more uptight about creepy, ultra-lustful comments about Don or Ken by posters here.

JimK: Are you channeling your "inner Joan" by making condescending comments to me?

My intent was to show that some viewers are not seeing SAB's anti-Semitism for what it is and chose to think that her remarks are about "showbiz types." No! She meant Jews! It's very easy for some viewers to think that some woman in an evening gown spewing nasty words is less intolerant than some KKK member in a hood! No matter how one sees it, it's still "hate speech!" Don't let the diamond jewels fool ya!

This episode was so rich. One of the things I love about the show is the way small details are thrown in to highlight the differences between that time and the present. I particularly loved the way Betty and Don were so cavalier about leaving their trash in the park. Believe me, I was a kid in that era and, at least in my family, no one had any compunction about throwing cans or paper out of a car window while driving down the road. In the mid-60s, first lady Lady Bird Johnson's antilittering/beautification campaign and a TV ad blitz (as someone mentioned above, the crying Indian PSA) really changed the views of Americans. We can see how effective the advertising was (another tie-in to the show) by the outrage of people on here at just seeing littering depicted on a TV show!

Another disconnect with our present time is how the Drapers ignore their children. I end up laughing a lot at these little asides---remember Betty yelling at the little girl last season for putting her head inside a dry-cleaning bag? Not because the kid might asphixiate herself, but Betty didn't want her to make a mess. How different from today's helicopter parents!

Here are some impressions from the 60s. It was not really my experience, because I grew up in a nabe that was ranked among the top in the nation for racial balance, so I never saw anti-Semitism - and racism was crude in my view - but sexism and class consciousness were rank.

It was Lady Bird Johnson's "Keep America Beautiful" campaign that made us conscious of littering. This show is so well researched! Those pointy bras kill me. And Joan is becoming a grotesque - eating to forget Roger?

That picnic scene with them leaving their trash all over the place was stunning in its boorishness. I know we were litterers back then, but were we so cluelessly blatant about it? Who knew the Drapers were so white-trash?

Visan: I'm amused, not aroused by Joan. And I'm not howling about how HOT she looks each week--that's for sure. The actress playing her does a great job--it's a little like being asked to portray a battleship.

As for anti-semitism--yes--it is reprehensible. But I'm not so sure that Betty doesn't tie "showpeople" and jews together in someways as her cultural background indicates she would.

She's not quite a Klan member but people aren't mistaking that her feelings --they are mixed up as a mixed up mess of insular attitudes that reflect her time and place in it accurately.

Viewers, like readers, come to characters with different backgrounds and thus different sensitivities. It shouldn't be something that upsets us. All sense that Betty is crudely attempting to drunkenly, pathetically rationalize this sudden frontal assault by Jimmy.

Not being condescending when it comes to all the "Grrrrowl he's HAWT!" lame-mentary, just disapproving.

Gotta get to work, but I messed up what I was trying to say in the third graf above-- Betty's views aren't pure, just off the boat from Berlin anti-semitism, and the audience understands that. She's from an insular, protestant world that looks down on such things as modeling--her mother disapproved of Betty's brief career. So that narrow worldview mashes together "show people" and minorities and the "behavior" they're capable of--which Betty bleats out under attack and under the influence.

Oh, yeah, wasn't Jane HAWT when she dissed Joan! I wanted to eat her up with a SPOON!! Very HAWT!

LOL.

I heard "look at you" all the time growing up. Not from NYC.

Visan/Greytone, etc: I'll watch the episode again, but what were the anti-semitic remarks made?

Also, if it turns out that Ken is gay, I'm going to slit my throat.

Visan: I never heard them at home, because my (irish catholic upper middle class) family and well mixed neighborhood were not like that, but all manner of bigotry was casual and not at all unusual - the class and ethnicity you needed to belong to in order to be safe from it all was upper and upper middle class WASP. the rest of us were the great unwashed.

Jimmy used that shindig to lure them both in...to tell Betty He's up to no good...and to tell Don to stick it.

Jimmy got what he wanted: his TV show bought and sold...open and shut case. Shrewd operator.

I like Jane From Jane Street a lot, too: I hope she's just not a ship passing in the night.

Nothing wrong with being gay...except in 1962!

I hope Ken and Sal get it on...really!

Ken is not gay, just a secretly gifted writer;you can see how straight he is when he lights Sal's cigaret. And Jane, Joan has met her match. Loved Roger's face when he realizes that since he got Jane out of trouble he is now owed" something. Don is more a product of his messed up childhood and the sexist times than anything else. Very curious to see how the identity issue gets faced. In previews, Joan is saying someone is dead but they aren't really, or something like that. Must be the Don identity rumor mill starting...maybe he gets a comeuppance, demotion, something. I bet when Betty says(in next episode)"I know what kind of man you are", she is speaking to Don.

I step out for a scotch on the rocks and look what happens with you kids. ;o) Personally, I think Betty blew chunks because of too many glasses of champagne. She's seems like an amateur when it comes to handling her booze. You would think after Sally's bartending skills (10 parts booze to one part mix) would help her gain experience.

This may have been the first time we have seen Ken without all his bravado. Wonder what it was about Sal that allowed him to drop his shields and open up a bit.

Also, was Pete even in this ep at all?

P.S. Sally, here's a tip...most people like their bloody mary's red, not pink. NOT ME, but most people!!

Don was asked to be on the Board of American Art!! He admits he doesn't know what it means.
How does he plan to pull this off? When he is photographed for the NY society page in his "tux", isn't he thinking about the "real" Draper family exposing him?

Also, I think he's been watching movies to create his sophisticated image and speaking the right way with clients. However, as Roger said, he does drop his g's.

I wish they would make this into a movie so we can watch the whole story unfold in a few hours with Peggy and Don's past explained.

Love the show...is it true it will be over in just four more episodes?

Hi Drink&Smoke! Blew chunks?! Classic!!

I agree with you about Betts. She can't handle her booze, especially when it is served with a side of Don's "wick dipping" with Bobbie.

Yes, Sally is quite the little bartender isn't she? I think she'll be mixing many more drinks in the Draper household from now on!

Joan is going the way of last season's Peggy in terms of her figure. What are the writers trying to do to her? On that note, I think Pompous Paul still has a thing for Joan.

JimK: You wrote: 'Of course as a parent today, I'd say "great job" to bobby; my wife and I cheer every little thing with our kids. So do our friends.' Yep, Big difference from the parenting of yore. Today, all kids get patted on the back for doing absolutely nothing. So they grow up thinking the world owes them their self-esteem. Years ago, self-esteem was earned by accomplishing something...doing someting of value.

I want to see more episodes with heated liberals or peopel of different backgrounds challenging these people. In my opinion, the show is becoming somewhat of a dynasty-type thing where they are just talking about the richess of the people and their mini dramas with other people in their circle. I want to see an outsider be like "dude, you're rich, you don't know anything" kind of thing. Don and Betty are getting too comfortable in their rich lifestyles. The times are 'a changin' baby and I can't wait to see it happen!!!

Andrea: One of the things I liked about last season's Beatniks were the being aware of a world outside NYC. They did care, or appeared to care, about social issues, unlike the SC set!

Another spectacular episode in a riveting season... very interesting to watch sad, suffering Kitty. Can't wait to see her unfold. Someone will come to her rescue, will it be Ken? Can't help wondering what would happen if he was invited to dinner more often and ended up falling for Kitty. And after all of the trials and tribulations of the characters, I find the 6-year-old in me wondering if we'll ever find out what happened to Chauncey. Woof.

That Rothko painting was beautiful.

Did anyone notice that there was an orange/golden palor throughout the whole episode...with the lighting, the scenery...etc. And the episode's title was "The Golden Violin"...hmmmm

btw...Roger to Jane: "I hope my daughter doesn't get that sweater" lol

the car salesman trying to sell to an Ad man...lol

Don is a former used car salesman...classic! lol

Another anachronism: When Betty ended her phone call with Jimmy, she said "Have nice day." Nobody ended a phone call with that phrase in 1962, not until the '70's.

Littering: Johnson didn't become president until the end of '63, and it took a year or two for his wife's anti-littering campaign to get going. In '62 it wasn't unusual for people to throw a can as Don did at the end of the picnic. Actually, I thought that the whole point of the picnic scene (and the earlier shot of the Drapers' house) was to show the perfect American 1962 family (nice big suburban house, shiny big new car, picnic in the park, etc.) and then show how Don ruined it all by throwing that can to remind us that they're not a perfect family after all. Jimmy's later comment ("You're garbage, and you know it") reinforced that concept. Don DOES know that he's garbage. Then Betty further spoiled it by puking in the new car.

Jimmy may have lured the Drapers to the party to have the opportunity to rat out Don to Betty. He may not have made the garbage comment to Don if Betty had not made the "you people" anti-Semitic comment. Yes, Betty is anti-Semitic: her people are Nordic, you know.

The woman in the flashback scene at the car dealership in 1952 was probably the real Mrs. Don Draper. I wonder how Dick Whitman dealt with that situation. Maybe he romanced her to keep her from exposing him, his first foray into becoming the whore-man that he is. Maybe he killed her. I suppose we'll find out eventually. We now know that he was a car salesman after the army, but how did he get from there to where he is in '62?

The Sal/Ken situation: I think that Sal mistakenly assumes that, because Ken has demonstrated that he's interested in the arts and is unmarried, he may also be a closeted gay man.

Joan/Jane: Notice how Jane has not made any female friends in the office. She's always by herself. When she gets into trouble she immediately goes to a powerful man to bail her out. She engages in reckless behavior (going to see the picture and bringing others along, challenging Joan, lying.)

Who ratted on the gang who went to see the picture? Notice how Joan pumped Paul to get the info. She even said "Thank you."

Hi CarrieB! You're right, where's Chauncey? And have you noticed that Polly, the Draper's dog has not been around? Maybe Chauncey and Polly ran away together and are now sharing a spagetti and meatball dinner in the back of an Italian restaurant somewhere! Hey, a girl's gotta dream! Who doesn't love "Lady and the Tramp"?
Which, come to think of it, could be the new title for Betty and Don!

Well, I think this lays to rest a past thread here questioning January Jones' acting ability.She looked absolutely stricken in the last scene in the car.

In the picnic scene, when Sally asks Betty "Are we rich?" and Betty tells her we don't talk about money - there is so much Betty has been trained not to talk about...

Will she put on the yellow bikini and search out Arthur for a grudge **** ?

And I don't think she would have bought a bikini if she were pregnant.

Visan: thanks for the support. I agree about the Beatniks. There was reference to "subterraneans" in one of the episodes this season too, they were smirking at them, like as if they are lower people. Had I lived back then, I would have been hanging with Kerouac and Ginsberg, dressed in black, smoking pot and having lots of interesting lovers!

I loved this episode. This is the kinda episode that had me up til four in the morning watching season 1 on demand.

Mad Props to Jimmy.

Funny about the family picnic where Don and Betty are just leaving all their trash in the pristine park.

Poor Salvador. Poor Poor Salvador's wife!

What happened to Peggy's new look? I was hoping it would stay.

That's Jane sure is a snake. Ooh. I know girls like that too, but i bet Joan was exactly the same way and that's how she got to where she is. And this week i did notice her chest. It is almost ridiculous looking.
I'm also wondering about this fiance of hers. He hasn't shown up yet at all, and she assured Sterling that she would continue working. Is she actually engaged or maybe after that stunt with her age being displayed for the whole office and Peggy calling her out on wanting to get married she just is trying to pull somehting off....

I can't wait for next week.

Serge Gainsbourg's "Couleur Cafe" was the song that was reworked into the Martinson's coffee jingle in last night's episode ("The Gold Violin"). Part of the lyrics translate to "I love your color" which he directs at some Caribbean lovelies. Find a recording of Serge crooning his tune at http://cantara.vox.com/library/post/couleur-cafe.html

Laurie B, there's no way Ken's gay, and I think that plotline ends with this episode. Ken didn't pick up on Sal's pining at all, but Kitty did and Sal realized she did. The last exchange between Sal and Ken in the office, where Sal was polite but brief -- as well as Sal's genuine anguish over how hurt Kitty was -- indicates Sal will retreat once again behind the safe but stifling cloak of faux-heterosexuality. I liked that little portion of the show -- it shows more of Ken's real depth, it's telling that Sal was never particularly interested in Ken until he saw that he had an artistic soul (I gotta say, his comments on the Rothko were spot on), and Kitty's reaction was well done. Also, the 'Gold Violin,' as JimK notes, was a lovely touch as it relates to poor Sal.

A few other thoughts:
* No Peggy and Pete: I'm surprised to say this, but am I the only one who didn't notice or care that we didn't get anything about Peggy or the Campbells in this episode? Didn't miss them a whit.
* Dead Duck? Nope: Also surprised to say how happy I was that Duck didn't turn up dead this episode. Wonder what happened over his lost weekend. Maybe he's back on the sauce, and works better. I used to be a journalist, and I knew plenty of guys who were better on deadline when they were drunk.
* The Smiths: I think Smitty and Smith are hysterical in contrast to Don. I like how Don cuts right to the chase re: the bankruptcy of the 'budding spirit of the age' being created/articulated/exploited by two Mad Men -- Mad Kids, really. I have always found the use of countercultural motifs in advertising to be thoroughly odious -- anyone remember Gap's 'Kerouac wore khakis' ads? But the show almost seems to suggest, rightly I believe, that even as early as 1962 this 'movement' was co-opted and in part by by Madison Avenue to sell coffee. I think Don is quite observant here, but he also perhaps isn't cynical enough to realize the value of it as an advertising weapon. Wonder if he'll come around after landing Martinson's.
* Grin and Barrett, Don! Whoa, right? Was everyone else blown away by this last portion of the show? I figured it would be Don Jimmy was talking to -- it's been clear from the get-go that he had Don measured ('you're a cool cat, Donny) but it was even better than I expected. First, his conversation with Betty -- I feel for Betty, but I don't think Jimmy was being cruel at all. He was still using kid gloves with her while also pointing out the glaringly obvious. (And yes, the 'you people' was clearly a swipe against Jews. Betty's milieu was riddled with anti-Semitism and she doesn't break out of her milieu in any way. It is also funny, however, that she divulged to Don that she kissed a Jewish boy in Season One.) But the best part was Jimmy's dressing down of Don. Don behaves as if he is garbage, and he essentially shits all over people. I am glad Jimmy called him on it.
* Don as a used-car salesman! Am I the only person who got hysterical by the notion of Don selling used cars? I wonder how he worked himself out of that bind with the woman who clearly knew his past.
* Honest Harry: It's funny how Harry seems to be the only one who advances by being honest. His honesty with Cooper about the artwork was a fun little scene; Harry is such a fun little side character.
* Jane is a congenital liar: I really like her, she's going to make things fun, even though I think Joan may ultimately crush her. What was funny to me is how quick she was to take serious risks, how quick she was to lie and how resourceful she is (visiting Jolly Roger). Given how Sterling Coo tends to promote the resourceful and duplicitous, who knows? She could make out just fine; I actually think she is setting her sights on Big D, anyway.
* Trash. Don throwing the can was a pisser, and I wondered why the creators decided to linger so long on the detritus from the picnic. It was clearly significant. Weiner's post-game comments tied it all up in a nice little bow.

All in all, a great episode.

Everyone so harsh on Poor Betty. Can you imagine finding out that your husband is cheating on you with a woman that he's brought you around on several occasions? I would have done more than puke in his car. It'd be time to get a little carrie underwood on him.

You people are way smarter than I. I thought when Betty made the "you people" comment, she was referring to the self-absorbed, classless, SHOW business types, not Jews. It never occurred to me that she mean any anti-semitism by it. Am I being naive, or does anyone else think that too?

Seems to me, after last night, that perhaps the Don Draper draper suit Dick's been wearing may be getting tighter and tighter around the collar.

While the prospect of being found out as he gets more and more in the public eye is there all the time I saw a deeper moral battle going on with this role he's been playing creeping up and slapping him solidly in the face last night.

I could be wrong but think that perhaps Don/Dick may have been making peace with the darker things he does for a long while by taking refuge in thinking *Its not me... I'm really Don Draper so I'm not really doing these things.*

Taking an emotional out on his behavior because he tells himself that if he's not really Don Draper he's not really doing the uglier things (running around... hurting people) that Don does.

A little its not really me I'm a better man than this deep down inside

I'd ventured to guess this thought may have eased his conscience on many things a long time but fails him more and more the more strong, powerful and lacking morals the Don he plays becomes.

Something about the events last night, the exchange/events with Bobby the week before, stripped away the Don suit for a moment letting all that Jimmy said to him hit him square in the chest.

He can't escape Don and he can longer hide behind him either

Interesting stuff!

Seems to me, after last night, that perhaps the Don Draper draper suit Dick's been wearing may be getting tighter and tighter around the collar.

While the prospect of being found out as he gets more and more in the public eye is there all the time I saw a deeper moral battle going on with this role he's been playing creeping up and slapping him solidly in the face last night.

I could be wrong but think that perhaps Don/Dick may have been making peace with the darker things he does for a long while by taking refuge in thinking *Its not me... I'm really Don Draper so I'm not really doing these things.*

Taking an emotional out on his behavior because he tells himself that if he's not really Don Draper he's not really doing the uglier things (running around... hurting people) that Don does.

A little its not really me I'm a better man than this deep down inside

I'd ventured to guess this thought may have eased his conscience on many things a long time but fails him more and more the more strong, powerful and lacking morals the Don he plays becomes.

Something about the events last night, the exchange/events with Bobby the week before, stripped away the Don suit for a moment letting all that Jimmy said to him hit him square in the chest.

He can't escape Don and he can longer hide behind him either

Interesting stuff!

SAB puked because that is NOT the type of woman she assumed Don would cheat with. She's a VERY shallow person and can't believe that Don would step out on her with an older woman like Bobbie, ...and a Jew! Plus, part of it is SAB's fault because, unlike Kitty Romano, she refuses to even try to understand Don's business work. Guess she feels as long as Dapper Don brings home enough doe for her horsey lessons and new Caddy, she can stick her head in the sand! She's beyond vapid!

Laurie B, Yes you are being naive. It was meant as "you people"---you Jews. One common stereotype of Jews was as crude and pushy.

Meant to say "But the show almost seems to suggest, rightly I believe, that even as early as 1962 this 'movement' was co-opted and in part CREATED by by Madison Avenue to sell coffee." Probably helps to use verbs.

Thinking about garbage, Don throwing his can seems apt. He's smart about trying to throw his garbage far from plain sight, but it doesn't appear to be enough!

what a great episode, not as tight as last week, with alot
of new stuff being thrown around. i saw it the same way as you laurie,
that betty was referring to the self absorbed/show business types
which could also include ad guys like her husband instead of it
being a racist comment. betty is truely gorgeous with that drawly accent.
loved the trash scene, almost as disturbing as the dog scene,
the perfect 60s family all so beautiful, leaving behind a heap of
rubbish/trail of disaster and joan with her totally über psycho
'its all very clear' so cool. a breath of freshness (coffee/homosexuality/art)
and youth swept through the episode, yet weird to see how
the marriage is falling apart but a search for clarity on other
various levels is happening, as if the season is starting up again.
cant wait for next week.

Here's a great song from 1961-1962 that I'm afraid Don will be singing soon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BRraVMZzc

Re: the blonde at the 1950 car lot. I'd bet anything that's NOT the real Don Draper's wife - friend of the family or other relative, maybe. It was the way she said "you're a hard man to find" (or track down, can't remember) and "you're not Don Draper" - not "you're not my husband" or "you're not Don."
He could have explained to her that he was "a" Don Draper, just not the one she was looking for; it's not that weird a name that there can't be more than one.

Glad to see Bert Cooper back in good form and definitely not senile.

As for the Selectric typewriters in the office, they were introduced in 1961, so no faux pas there.

Mad Ave didn't really start exploiting the counter culture until the late sixities with the whole flower power thing. Really what they are doing now in the episodes is just doing an environmental scan of people's attitudes and beliefs, and trying to figure out how to get yougn people to drink coffee. I'm surprised that they don't show them doing any pretesting in the episodes. I would like to see some examples of this, maybe some focus groups. It would create a nice scenario in which Don or people at SC could be made fools of or proven wrong by comments or attitudes they would have never expected. Last season they touched upon the use of psychology in advertising, but this really has not been explored as fully as I would liked to see.

Jimmy and Bobbie Barrett are Jewish? When did we find this out?

Littering, garbage....appearances, what great background. Did you catch the line from Duck about seeing a refrigerator floating in a pond while birding with a client?

Did anyone hear what Sal said when introducing Kitty to Ken, talking about when they met? There was something about his mother...
Who thinks Sal's mom lives with them?

Great episode, terrific acting from Bryan Batt, the look on his face when he realized he had hurt Kitty. He is so conflicted.

Jane is dangerous, the comment about stealing the Rothko. She can't be trusted on many levels. She certainly is a manipulator.

I don't think Betty is pregnant. Remember the scene in a previous episode with Francine when she was giving away baby clothes? The vomiting in the car was the expression of all that pent up rage and fear from being confronted with Don's infidelity.

Great episode, love the warm colors of the time, brilliant! Only four episodes...aack! What will we do?

Hey, 60's child!! You're right about the Draper's dog not being in the picture. I hope Polly didn't have the same fate as Tiger - the Brady Bunch dog. If so, we will never see her again.

I saw it just as Laurie saw Betty's reaction to Jimmy. I think she was referring to the show biz types. I did not realize that Jimmy was Jewish. If that is what they were getting at it was totally lost on me.
I also felt that Jimmy was really awful to Betty. He lured her in and used her to get back at Don. She really thought that he liked her and that he was a friend.
At first I was disappointed with the gay thing because all of the other shows are doing it. But as I watched I realize that it could be really interesting and sad. I really feel for Kitty. Does she know that her husband is gay? I noticed that Ken wanted to call Kitty to thank her but did not know how Sal would feel about it. I wonder if Kitty and Ken will get together. The whole lighter thing was a bit stalkerish.
I was completely shocked about the litter. I live in a very clean city and could not imagine leaving trash. Heck, we feel bad about throwing cans and bottles in the trash and not the recycle bin. lol Let alone littering. I can't wait to see what the shock me about next week.
I LOVE THIS SHOW

Bobbi made a reference a few episodes ago that if it weren't for her, Jimmy's show would be called "Grin and Brownstein" or something like that - i can't recall the exact name - to show that she gave Jimmy a show name that would be more marketable. That's how we know that at least Jimmy is Jewish. Bobbi, on the other hand... we don't know for sure if she is... what her madien name is, or if she converted to marry Bobbi... maybe everyone did/had to back then to get married? I'm not sure.

Week after week I continue to recommend everyone listen at least once to the videoblog Matt Weiner narrates for each episode.

It really goes a long way to explain what happened in the episode and clarifies the theme as he intended it to be understood.

Try it!...You'll like it!

Most/nearly all of the borscht belt comics were Jewish--it's both a stereotype, but also the way that they found entry into mainstream culture--out of the lower east side to the Catskills to television.

Love all the comments!
Reeaaally loved the bit in the epi about Don being a used car salesman! How fitting!
Loved penultimate's link to the Gene Pitney song! That was one talented guy...not hard on the eyes either. His songs could give one chills.
Drink&Smoke love the way when I read your posts the pic of ol' Dino there makes it seem like he's saying them...so funny.

maybe sal picked up some "gaydar" about ken
even before this episode I had thought maybe ken was a closet gay because he kept acting and talking like such a ladies man
I didn't notice betty saying antisemetic remarks towards jimmy
I thought she was referring to showbiz people in general

also wanted to add that I bet Jane clues in real fast about Sal and they form an alliance

Garbage- something you throw away when you are done with it. In the PC present, it was jarring to see Don and Betty leave their garbage behind after their picnic. But they were done with the material- it was now something to be disposed of or left behind. Jimmy Barrett got what he wanted from Don and SC- his TV show. After the contract with ABC was signed (39 episodes), Jimmy no longer needed Don- he was something to be disposed of- garbage- hence his use of the word to describe Don. Nice juxtaposition. Notice how Jimmy kept quiet until after the contract was signed. He may not have been a willing participant, but he did not stop what was going on between Bobbie and Don. I wonder how dirty Jimmy's hands have gotten over the years ?

The sub plot between Salvatore and Ken was interesting. My son, who has never watched an episode of Mad Men, walked into the room during a scene between Salvatore and Ken. He immediately asked if Salvatore was gay. My wife and I laughed loudly and explained what was going on. It really is that obvious and Ken is oblivious. However, at the end of their meal, Ken appeared uncomfortable and was looking for an excuse to leave. Perhaps he sensed something ? The discovery of Ken's lighter was touching and you can see the emotion that Salvatore invested in the object. On the other hand, he does care for his wife, while she knows something is wrong in their relationship. If the notion to act on his feelings occurred to Salvatore, I am sure that he also weighed the effect on his wife and mother. I suspect that if this was what was going through his mind, he quickly decided to keep things to himself and in effect forget about it. Hence, Salvatore's interaction with Ken the next day was short, to the point and business like. In later episodes we may even see him avoiding Ken, with Ken possibly feeling jilted !

We see the after affect of Don and Duck's peace treaty. The beginning of the episode shows nice interplay between Roger, Duck and Don. Later we see that Don is supportive of Duck while Duck has brought in business. Crucially we also saw the success of Duck's intent to bring a younger perspective to ad campaigns. I am sure the irony was not lost on Don, but will this partially offset the American/ Mohawk debacle ? We still don't know if Duck succumbed to his craving for alcohol after Memorial Day weekend, but last night we were left with Duck looking at the bar in Don's office, while Jane was waiting at the door for him to leave. Don showed sympathy by offering to send out for an alternative beverage, but this will be Duck's cross to bear for his duration at SC.

In this episode we really begin to see the "60's" and the attendant attitude of the young. Anti-Establishment, Anti- Authority and a need to find out everything on their own terms. Very self centered. The pitch from Smith and Smith, Jane's belief that she can do anything she wants and her attitude towards Joan. Combine this with Pete (willing to do just about anything to get himself ahead), and Peggy (going on with her life without regard to her child) and we have potential for a significant culture clash at SC.

It was nice to see Bertram Cooper again. He seemed sharp, shrewd and as dry witted as usual. Although pointedly showing him loosing his train of thought with Harry did imply the opposite. Are we being set up for the eventual departure of Bert Cooper ? The scene with Roger, Don and Bert was interesting. While we know that Don and Roger have a friendly and jovial relationship, Roger defers to Bert when it is time to convince Don to accept his new responsibilities.

A sub theme of the episode is that Don's career is advancing at the same time his private life is starting to become public. The ABC executive was extremely happy to meet him and of course the invitation to sit on an Art Gallery Board of Directors. Yet the climax of the episode was the public confrontation between Jimmy, Betty and Don. What Don has feared most is coming true- the separate parts of his life are no longer separate.

Jane has essentially prostituted herself to Sterling after demonstrating that she is a liar, and a manipulator. At the beginning of the episode Roger asks for her address and she replies that he can go through the files to find out- but he doesn't want to go that route. Later when Jane makes her calculated play in front of Roger, she lets him know where she lives (Roger: "Jane on Jane Street"). We will see more of these 2 together. We will also see Joan's reaction- who will Sterling favor more ?

This episode set up many story lines for the 2nd half of the season. What else will we find out about Don's background (who was the blonde- relative, girlfriend ?), What will be the fallout from Jimmy's confrontational scenes with Betty and Don. ? What will happen between Joan, Roger and Jane ?

Greytone: Cool! Then, after we've listened to Matt and saved our ourselves all the trouble of thinking about Mad Men, we can post here about "CSI:New York" instead.

Excellent!

And then, after Sal and Jane form their alliance, they'll vote everybody off the island.

Duck worked hard for that coffee account and in bringing the youth into the SC landscape. But homeboy got none of the glory! I felt rather sad for the smarmy asshole....

Matt Weiner says in his videoblog that ep7 is about garbage. Don can't escape the moral garbage he's piling up over time, it's sticking to him. The actors who play Ken and Sal seem to indicate that Ken's oblivious and Sal's staying firmly in the closet.

Glad that's all settled.

Okay, so ... Is Gary Sinese's abduction going to mean a new leader for the CSI:New York team of heroic crime fighting patholigists or what people?

But at least Duck is alive. He's just a dog hater, not suicidal, much to my disappointment ....

I think it's interesting they brought in the act of reciprocity in this episode. For example, when Joan too Phil's coffee cup and then gave it back to him to get what she wanted. Just as Jane gave up her address to get her job from Roger. Even these small acts of giving will enable a sense of obligation in the other people to give back. I like the manipulation techniques.

Secondly, I don't know why everyone's hating on Jane. We don't even know anything about her yet, except that she knows how give Joan a piece of lip (which i respect because Joan is a dominating power-hungry woman), that's she's attractive, and that she lives on Jane Street.

@Andrea: I like Jane too because it's about time the show was injected with some spice from the office set! And Jane telling off that Queen B Joan is priceless!

Why the pretty haters? Betty is a 28 year old married to a man 9 years older who cheats, lies, schemes, demeans, and manipulates her at every turn. Yet women are the first to defend Don actions.
Women in the early 1960s had the following: no job opportunities, no equal pay, no child care, no reproductive rights, no capital for women owned businesses, and no Civil Rights Act and the list goes on.
Men expected women not to talk, only when spoken to. They where ridiculed and ostracized for free thinking. Obsessed with body image because that's how worth was based, and conditioned that they where not logical and could not reason.
In the home women had no input on decisions and where financially dependent, bottom of the ladder. Trapped at home many had to endure life.
Changes where a long time coming not until women such as Gloria Steinam and Simone De Beauvior.
I love Betty she is true to her era and like all women not perfect. "One is not born a women, one becomes one (Beauvoir). No empathy and objectivity just because Don is a hotty. Shame on you.
BETTY, YOU GO GIRL!

Bon V: Granted, i think thinks have improved for women. I have to say that not all women were submissive barbie dolls, even back in the early 60s. My mom was a single mother, rasing 3 kids, went to NYU at night and had a full-time job as a supervisor, later to own her own business. This was back in 1962, right when Mad men is taking place right now.

If betty doesn't leave DOn, it's not a function of women's problems back then, it's because she's weak and doesn't want to leave her comfortable lifestyle. She's afraid to make it on her own. At the very least she could go out and find a new man, damn the girl still looks hot.

As for Don, he's got what's coming to him.

Don is a sexy bastard! And a total nympho (Hat tip to Andrea!)! He looked ultra bangable in that dinner jacket last night! Hope that gorgeous secretary of his, Jane, will be his next non-blonde mistress! Gosh, I love that man being bad! And being naked! LMAO!

LaurieB - I'm naive, too. I thought Betty meant "you show biz people!" Thanks for having the guts to admit it!

The outside of their house - isn't it the Bradford's house in Sacramento? At least the outside matches the inside unlike the Brady house.

Was it really Old Man Menken in the dealership? Great catch!

The blonde tracking down Don Draper at the used car lot - doesn't she look A LOT like Betty? I think she is an old girlfriend, not a family member. I was bummed that more wasn't said about it in this episode. Can't wait for more!

Yes, Sal's mom was crashed on the couch. Wonder where she was for dinner when Ken was there. Poor Kitty! On the other hand, I wish I had a gay husband ! Sal was so sweet and attentive, AND he cooks!

Andrea: That is so cool to read about your mom!

Thanks V. :-) She's a vertiable role model!

Okay, so obviously I'm an addict and need to leave the blogging alone for a while. See you all next week.

Bon Vivant is right. Betty is not a bad person, just an imperfect and ordinary person with normal emotions. Her attitudes toward Don and sex are healthy. Whatever superficiality she has is a by-product of her upbringing- the upper middle class woman who learned finishing school manners and is preoccupied with social status. Her child-raising methods were typical of her time, as were her social attitudes. What makes her a magnet for scorn is that she is an exceptionally beautiful woman. January Jones does a terrific job as Betty.

I find Don to be the most gorgeous creature on Mad Men! That face, with the chiseled profile! That body!

I love all the characters, flawed as they are. Very curious to see how the Don/Dick identity resolves or not. (I also thught Betty's "you people" referred to show biz, dirty humor types, not Jews) Think Bert Cooper is going to be as he always is, not around all the time, mostly because Robert Morse is a busy actor. I can't wait to see any Ken / Kitty interactions, more Don and Betty in swanky clothes, maybe Betty will have an affair with her horse whisperer. I havn't been this involved in a show since the first few episodes of Lost. I agree with the poster who said they didn't miss Pete or Peggy that much. I know they are necessary as stereotypes, but really dull, even when it should be exctiing.

As a guy, I have to admit it. Don is a real dude.

I hope the insanely good looking Jon Hamm gets a lot of high profile work very soon. That kind of handsome needs a bigger place to showcase his talents. But also, kudos to the entire cast for all being such good actors with such good scripts, it is still not easy to transport busy people every week. Immediately upon tuning in, there isn't one character I don't immediately believe is that person, not an actor.

Andrea01: Props to your mom! It was very hard for women then. Weakness not so much, maybe conditioned to believe she can't. I believe that her situation has everything to due with that era. We had no support systems or resources no Civil Rights Act until 1964. The National Organization for Women (NOW) was not established until 1966. Only 35% of women in mid 60's had BSNs. How can that not play a huge part in defining your person.
Don Draper is smoking hot and even my feminist boody is digging his alpha male. I just have a soft spot for the Betty. Peaceout

First, some historical notes on Pampers:

Pampers first debuted in test markets in 1961. The consensus was consumers loved the product, but balked at the cost - ten cents per disposable diaper. So by simplifying the construction and making tweaks in the product, they were able to get the cost down to six cents a diaper. By its third attempt at test-marketing, the product began to take off.

Now for episode 7: Betty's barfing in the final scene, which was a metaphor for her disgust with Don's philandering, was a hoot. When Betty, Peggy and Joan get their hands on a copy of Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique" later on, watch out!

What are BSNs?

I just find the don draper character totally Unattractive just because of his lifestyle smoking drinking I hate the look on his face as he scruntches up his eyes while he is taking a puff
my so thinks he looks like a young deniro and I think he looks like a young mel gibson

if his character showed more of a sense of humour I know I would likely find him more appealing

sorry I keep forgetting what I want to say

another thought is maybe with the don draper murdered the blonde lady who came looking for the real don draper and he has that on his conscience too if he has a conscience

Just to let you know about the Selectric typewriter -- it was available in the early 1960's. I had a job as a statistical typist at a large Mid-western corporation starting in 1961 and that is what we used. It was state-of-the art and we really thought we were special to have them!!

Betty Crocker: My bad. Freudian slip. BSN is bachelor of science in nursing. BS bachelor of science is what i meant.

Visan and Andrea01- can't agree more that there needs to be a little more of the pull from the other side of the counter culture that we saw more of in Season 1. It existed and was very real, especially in the Village in 1962. I thought the counter culture made it much cooler. I guess the conservatives couldn't handle anyone telling them their over capitalistic views were part of their problems.
Your comments and others Visan, about the anti-semitism and racism are also another reason why I love reading this blog. There are insights from everyone that make the conversation interesting. I wasn't sure at first what Betty meant by,"You people are ugly and crude," but her WASP upbringing would most likely make her a bit predjudice. I actually thought that Jimmy was clever with his,"What? Comedians?" comeback. Comics are good about twisting a painful remark into a joke.
I think Jane is awesome the way she creates havoc and then takes cover behind Roger. She's twisted, but it makes it interesting. You don't have to like what she does, just see it for the fun she creates. She's a carefree 20 year old that knows how to stir things up. It's not like those guys weren't loving being naughty w/ her. She was a big turn on even to Sal!
And for all of those who are questioning Ken's sexual orientation, relax. He's clueless! He's cute, but too high maintainence. He's the kind of guy that you would consistantly have to stroke his ego. Tiresome...Sal should be looking at the cute young blond guy with an accent that was working on the coffee campaign. He has more potential.

Sorry.....
Mr. Menken was not the other man at the dealership. The uncredited appearance was done by a well-known actor named Allen Miller.

The man in the showroom with Don must have been a stranger.

I am frustrated that Peggy still looks like a damn school girl. She's not that cute so maybe if she was to fix her dreadful appeareance the guys won't forget to include her in some outside work functions. Throw away them plain dresses and spruce it up with some classy, sexy, elegant dresses with some classy heels. I like the fact that she is blunt and speaks her mind with no expression whatsoever, just like the guys. Also, her and Don have a secret on each other so she is also trustworthy.

Hi cad men! A BSN is a Bachelor of Science degree with the inclusion of required Nursing Science courses. I have this degree so I can explain.
It is a 4 year program including: all the Liberal Arts courses, all the Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses, in addition to Anatomy and Physiology, Micribiology, Psychology, and Sociology courses.
In addition I was required to take Nursing Research and Theory, and Clinical practice.

Prior to BSN program, RNs primarily were graduates of hospital based schools of Nursing which were 3 years in length.
Hope that helps!

alot of you guys are saying that the Drappers littered because that was what people did in the 60's. Wrong. If you noticed, they were in a beautiful park that was clean. Their littering reflects their state of mind. They dont care about anything.

Oh Visan--back on the board and you're actually making me feel like betty in the cadillac ... uh, uh, ... hurl. Keep it up.

Swanky K: Thanks for the shout out! I've been on the receiving end of ignorant racial comments, so I recognize them, no matter how "pretty" the package!

PJ: And any other one who's mistaken in the belief that I (and any other female) that's not a SAB fan is such due to her beauty...1)We can see beyond the looks, at how much of a shit mother she is with the emasculation of her little boy and harping on her daughter's weight! 2)Don (Jon Hamm) is THE most beautiful person on that damn show! Trust!

JimK: Don looks great in--and out--of a suit! Hee!

*Somebody pass JimK a barf bag!*

Does anyone know who Mitch is? I have watched every episode of both season's several times, and looked over the characters page. I watch with I thought was good focus and detail, but Mitch has been mentioned several times, and I still don't have a clue who he is.

In the episode about the "rejuvenator" the guys are joking about Mitch's wife and mention she is good looking. Then in the sneak peak online of episode 8, Harry mentions Mitch was not thrilled about Harry's promotion. I also remember a few other small mentions of Mitch.....has he ever been portrayed on the show?

why did women wear bras that made their boobs pointy back in the 60s....it's so weird and unnatural.

Hello to all. So very intriguing, as always. With regard to the littering, it surprised me as well. I was born in the mid 50s and wonder - please fill me in - did parks have attendants that used to clean up after park guests?

Well it looks like #7 brought out the existential in some, plain logic in others. Basically, Don and his wife could care less about pollution. Few in that generation did. "Just throw the can away, who cares, as long as it's not in my car, or I don't have to bother throwing it out when I get home." It's a pure pre-1965 attitude. The vomiting is a natural reaction to expect from a 110 lb. femm fatale who drank 6 martinis in a couple of hours. Remember, they were "leaving early, Betsy doesn't feel well". But, literally speaking, it's a symbol of her new awakening on her husband's infidelity. She spews her angst over his new prize possession...simply ironic. In episode 8 online previews, she is talking up to the tall and handsome husband, not the squirrelly short (equal eye level to her) funny guy Jimmy. I think, and I'm just guessing, Mitch is the older account executive who is heavy and is the Willie Loman type of salesman.

Betty meant the Jews when she said "you people." It was said out of anger and in retaliation against Jimmy's cruel assault. I don't believe that she is truly anti-Semitic, however. Remember how she chastised Francine for making an anti-semitic remark in Season 1? Something about "long noses in Boca Raton?" And she told Don that the first boy she ever kissed was Jewish. I predict that if she and Don ever get divorced, her second husband will be Jewish! I'm sure Betty has heard all the cliches about Jewish men making good husbands. Actually, back then that was probably true.

Jimmy Barrett is Jewish. Bobbie told Don at Sardi's that his real name was Brownstein. I don't believe that Bobbie is supposed to be Jewish, however. She used to be a dancer; not a profession too many Jewish girls went into. Too disreputable. Also, Melinda McGraw is such an obviously non-Jewish actress.

What a sick relationship Jimmy and Bobbie have! Since when does Jimmy have such "morals" about Bobbie's behavior? He's known all about it for years. He even made a joke that Bobbie has already "made every pilot in town." And in her first scene with Don, Bobbie says Jimmy wants to know that "he has a shot with your wife." He wouldn't have any compunction about "screwing another man's wife." What bullshit. I agree with the posters who think that Jimmy is either a closet gay or impotent. I definitely had that feeling that Jimmy is not the father of Bobbie's children. I'm sure she had an early first marriage. Their marriage is strictly a business arrangement. Bobbie and Jimmy most likely have an "understanding" that they each can lead separate lives.

I wondered if Ken was gay, too. Maybe that's why we haven't seen him in a relationship with a girl yet. Although he does seem to have the hots for Jane.

Poor Sal. I really feel for him (and Kitty). I really want him to reach out to Elliot. Elliot is very handsome and seems to really like Sal. They could help each other to keep up the facades of gay married men.

Can't wait for next Sunday!

Andrea01, every decade has at least one or two fashion items that makes everyone who wore them say .."What were we thinking back then!!!"

And I can't stand Jane! She's a complete liar and schemer. I wondered if she screwed Roger over the weekend when he paid a little "visit" to "Jane on Jane St."

I thought Joan was well within her rights to fire her for what she did. But apparently, Jane now has her "protector."

And I think Paul Kinsey wimped out of breaking into Cooper's office because he's feeling very insecure about his job right now and doesn't want to do anything to jeopardize it. That's also why he tattled on Jane to Joan. Trying to make himself seem indispensible. He's starting to feel older now, like Joan, and feels the young 'uns nipping at his heels.

And I didn't miss Pete and Peggy one bit either!

I remember my Mom was so excited when disposable diapers came out. We were taking a trip to Canada and they bought them to make it easier than cloth diapers. She said they were the consistancy of a very thick paper towel. They leaked in every directions (even with rubber pants over them) because there was no elastic around the waist and legs. They had chemicals in them to soak up the water and caused a severe rash on my brother. It was so bad that they ended up buying cloth diapers, a tight fitting bucket and finding laundromats along the way.

Oh Jim K.- Please don't HURL!!!!!
Visan- No prob. You have started a good conversation.
Gail Klein- Good point out on Betty's schitzo outlook on Jews. She kisses them, she reprimands a friend for making fun of them, and then she goes off on Jimmy for being one of "those people". She is certainly confused. Maybe it was all of those drinks. No, Actually I think that it shows that she wants everyone to think she's not like that, but deep down when the tire hits the road, she really is a self-centered bigot. If I hear her say one more time,"It's not polite to ..." I may puke myself!
She was due for a reality check.
Andrea01- Your mom rocks! Great role model!

Lots of Gold Violin references in this episode if you look closely.

Recall what Ken said about his short story "The Gold Violin": it's perfect in every way except it doesn't play music. Sal sees his crush Ken as perfect but there is one flaw--Ken's not gay. Same for Ken's crush on Jane-she's his perceived prize but refuses to take Ken's bait (whether she's playing hard to get or is a lesbian is still a mystery to me). Don is Betty's perfect guy-only he doesn't play the role of the faithful husband. So glad we got a view of Sal's home life. His character is played to perfection.

Felt empathy for Betty for the 1st time since the season 1 finale. Jimmy was ugly and crude to hurt Betty like that. He should have been a real man and popped Don in the nose like he deserves. But I guess when you're a short insecure dweeb, it's safer to use the wife.

Wow....I love this show! I was hoping to see what happened with Peggy and Pete after the night out at the strip joint. -- Were the girls as chubby as they are showing? That stripper!!! Even the young models at the country club fashion show were chubs... I guess you could say they were just "healthy"! Peggy seemed to have dressed up for this outing with the guys at the strip place -- her hair looked better and more up to date than her usual ponytail.....BUT...she comes back to work and looks like a high school girl even after Joan told her to dress the part in order to be taken seriously. Did anyone notice her voice? I thought she sounded so high pitched and young sounding.....very annoying. I hope she is smart enough to stay away from Pete....eventually he will find out that her baby is his and that will be another big storyline.

I know Don has a lot of demons in his mind but this latest episode might do him in....Betty could leave him and, even though he portrays this tough, in-control man, he will be devastated. I just hope he does not seek any kind of comfort from Jane....I don't like her. She is manipulative, she lies, and would rake over anyone in her path to succeed.

I'm hoping we don't have a brokeback mountain situation with Sal and Ken. I don't think Ken has any latent gay feelings and that he will be totally surprised if Sal approaches him sexually. Sal.....go to a gay guy.....maybe Cooper is gay! Just kidding....don't think so.

Regarding the hairstyles in the office....I used to wear my hair up like Jane's and Joan's....had a standing appointment at the stylist who would tease the baloney out of it and put it up and spray it....it would last for about 6 days if I carefully wrapped it in toilet paper every night. What we used to do!! This show brings back so much nostalgia to me....I sat outside my Executive Vice President's office....not letting one in unless I approved. I protected him and nurtured him. He was married, had a lover on the west coast and one on the east coast. He was a handsome hunk and I was his link to his well-being in the office. I supported him and was loyal. I was young and pretty and there was never any sexual undertones between us. I knew about the SECRET in secretary. I don't think Jane is going to be the kind of secretary Peggy was or that Joan is.

Can't wait til the next show..............

redhead: Jane as a lesbian? Hadn't thought of that possibility. It is interesting the way she refuses to accept the advances of the lower ad guys - she's definitely not interested. At the very least, she has higher standards then Ken or Paul. She does seem a little in awe of Don, though, and she knew exactly who to run to and how to use her feminine wiles to keep her job. She's a sneaky, manipulative little twit!

I think Jimmy was more along the lines of brutally honest. Doesn't Betty suspect that Don is a cheater? As much as I feel sorry for her, I've always thought she was in deep denial. And I'm glad Jimmy didn't hit Don. He dealt with it in his own way and because he was so astute, I think his method was probably more effective than getting physical.

I'll admit though that I was a little disappointed. When I saw the previews for ep.7 I thought Jimmy and Betty would end up having an affair once Bobbie and Don moved on. If that had been the case do you think folks would have suspected the two of them? I even thought that Jimmy might have shown Betty some kindness. Boy I was naive. No chance of that happening now. I know she needs a wake up call, but I wanted her to have some honest affection too.

Even if Jimmy is mean and says the most appalling things, I really like him as a character. Mind you, I missed the first half of this episode.

PS. Okay, I think Jimmy is kind of hot.

Finally, Betty's life makes her want to puke...did you see Don's face at the end? Priceless.

Jimmy is a snake, but boy, did he lace into the Drapers...

Poor Sal...Ken is just too naive and straight for him.

Didn't miss Pete Campbell at all this week.

if someone pukes again in the 7th episode of the third season then i believe we officially have a running gag. recall season 1, episode 7 (red in the face).

sort of like quentin tarantino having a POV shot from a car trunk in all of his movies... or hitchcock making a cameo in each of his.

**Were the girls as chubby as they are showing? That stripper!!! Even the young models at the country club fashion show were chubs... I guess you could say they were just "healthy"!**

Funny, I didn't think they were chubs at all. I thought they were pretty regular. If we find them chubby that probably says less about the models and the stripper and more about how modern viewers think about the female body. I thought their bodies were simply rounder and softer. I noticed the difference too, but I suspect that has more to do with modern beauty standards and a super thin ideal that we're supposed to aspire to.

This is before Twiggy isn't it?

eternal llama: I had the same reaction to the comment. I think I've seen one of the "Inside Mad Men" videos or maybe it was on the Season 1 DVD where Matt Weiner has talked about how he purposely picked a softer, rounder model in a season 1 episode to play the stipper because that was closer to the beauty standard for the time. As to Twiggy - she was known as "The Face of '66", when she first gained popularity.

Yes, you are right eternal llama...it was before Twiggy... I guess the toned bodies of today have overtaken me!! I don't,however, remember seeing bellies so soft and overhanging back then. The bodies were softer and rounder but the majority of "with it" women kept flat tummies and usually models looked like Betty. I guess some women were inspired by Marilyn......

Laurie B--I didn't take Betty's comment to be anti-Semitism either. I thought she was referring to show biz types in general who weren't too far removed from vaudeville and considered to be low-class.

I think Joan mentioned that Jane was a "college girl" when she was hired as Don's secretary. I can say from personal experience that there was alot of animosity at that time in the secretarial pool towards "college girls." I think Jane had a strike against her from the start as far as Joan goes. And that may be why she doesn't appear to have female friends in the office.

Hey Funkymama-- Your reaction and just about everybody's reaction to Pete is negative.

Me not so much.

Now this should probably be it's own thread--but I tried that ---my thread about the "Draper catcher" Don remembers when he's first in the Caddy Dealership got buried--so screw it--here goes:

The Case for Why Pete Campbell Is More Sympathetic Than He Seems ....

I feel this way probably in part due to chance -- I saw the Sea1 Ep, "New Amsterdam" free on demand before I saw the first ep of season1.

As a result, I started with a certain sympathy for Pete Campbell--as weird as that may sound.

In New Amsterdam, he's clearly trapped in his own way--in a "good marriage" to a wealthy girl who apparently chose him in part for his family name. Later we learn she had a hot and heavy thing with a guy before pete who she appeals to get his story published. Pete's the less favored younger son who can't get a dime for the expensive apartment Trudy wants them to buy from his horrible father. He's stepped away from the traditional family occupations to try something exciting and different--advertising--and has gotten only contempt from his snobby, lazy father. ("We gave you your name--look what you've done with it") Pete nearly gets fired but get saved by Bert Cooper because of his family connections--something he pieces together by the end of New Amsterdam.

And yes, all of you will freak when I write this, but he goes to peggy before his wedding night as a last desperate psychic escape before settling in with Trudy.

Pete also has some good ideas--he warns the big guns talking about Nixon vs. Kennedy who scoff at JFK because "he doesn't wear a hat" that "you know who else doesn't wear a hat?--Elvis." He's right, JFK will bring to politics the mass media star power/sex symbol excitement that Elvis and Marilyn Monroe brought to movies and music and that the Beatles will also create in 1964. Pete also sees the value in the market research that Don and the Lucky Strike people pooh-pooh about how embracing the death wish behind smoking--the idea that you can sell smoking a mark of individualism could work--it's the research behind One of the most successful Smoking campaign themes of all time: The Marlboro Man.

Pete shouldn't become the Dr. Frank Burns (of MASH) of the show--his embarrassing attempts at aping don--when he invites Hildy in for a drink with younger execs in an attempt to match the scene when peggy gets put on Belle Jolie from Don, shouldn't just be a chance for us to laugh at his failure. Pete is crying out for a role model, a different path. And that struggle, while sometimes gross and pretty evil is one that is pretty common.

While we may all wish we were the Don Draper type--handsome, cool, confident and apparently at ease in any situation, most of us are probably closer to the Pete end of the spectrum--trying to trade in our extra Chip and Dips for a shot gun and getting hassled for it, finding out our fiction is more worthy of Boys Life than the Atlantic monthly and doing awful things like trying to still have some say over Peggy when in truth the feelings for her are more selfish than noble.

I'm not saying Pete is admirable--but I am saying that his difficulty fitting in, in making connections, in just avoiding looking ridiculous makes him more human in some ways that Don, no matter how hawt Don is and therefore maybe, maybe, worth rooting for a little, little bit.

I mean how sad is it when he wanders into Peggy's office and she boots him--ever so politely in her evermore Draper-grrl way? Yes he's selfish, hapless and clueless but he's also so obviously lonely it's hard not at least feel a moment's pity for him.

Pete, like all of the characters on this show is capable of terrible sins. Even Harry, sweet, sweet Harry, cheated on his wife. This is like real life. People in real life do dumb, selfish horrible things and some very good things--sometimes in the same day.

So here's hoping that Pete isn't going to be utterly and completely awful. VIncent K. does an amazing job I think of showing a good bit of vulnerability in this character and we should at least consider that before we dismiss this character so coldly.

(Laurie B. is going to slag me down for the length of this post--oh well.)

I don't think Betty was referring to Jews when she spoke of "you people." Remember when he called on the phone to invite her, she wavered, then he said "you can't leave me alone with *those people*" He used the words first, and it referred to the showbiz types. Betty does not identify with the showbiz types. They make her shy.

**Pete is crying out for a role model, a different path.**

If that's the case, this makes me wonder how the social/political change of the 60's is going to affect him, especially if the old ways aren't working for him. I think I'll share your hope that he doesn't turn out to be completely awful. I hope he finds his way.

I really enjoyed your post by the way.

JimK: I agree that its unfair to demonize Pete - the show is full of imperfect characters, and while Pete is selfish and sometimes cruel, he's hardly the worst of the bunch. I did feel bad for Pete when Peggy brushed him off last week. He's been lonely and you can almost smell the desperation on him. He goes about dealing with his emotional problems in a decidedly unhealthy and dysfunctional way, but don't we all at some point? The actor does do an amazing job of portraying him, obviously since Pete is the guy we all love to hate, while still keeping him human and believable.

I also think it's unfortunate that people can expect to get slammed for posting their opinions here. I love that there's such a diversity of viewpoints on this forum, and while we all might disagree with each other, there's no need to attack people personally. We're a passionate bunch, and sometimes it's hard to tell if people are serious or joking, but the mean-spirited comments are a big turn-off.

love the forum, never joined in b4, but i found the garbage in this epi shocking..almost as shocked as i was when sally ran to her mother encased in a plastic bag, and all her mom was concerned about was her dry cleaning and not suffocation.
I thought there would be more discussion about the disposable diaper - that the seemingly modern ad men/people were so shocked at the thought of a diaper you throw away in an episode where everything and everyone was easily tossed aside

"I liked it when I was at Radcliffe, but you outgrow it. You absolutely outgrow it." (Diane Keaton in Manhattan, talking about Ingmar Bergman.)
I'm Bergman's biggest fan, and I gotta tell you, these episodes are grim.
I'll keep watching 'cause I like this stuff. I just hope it doesn't turn off everyone else.
So...this was this season's grimmest (and best) episode.
The language still needs tightening up: no one said "have a nice day" in 1962. And someone like Sal would know better than to say "with you and I."
The subtlety is there, as always. Jimmy has to endure Betty's anti-semitic remark and then says "it's been a gas."
Not quite the Sopranos, but in 2008, the best show on TV.

Hanna: Sorry if I've been guilty of snarky or misunderstood attempts at humor. Generally they are fun if you're playing with the kind of sharp people who can handle it--folks like Laurie B, Visan and Greytone.

eternal_llama: Clearly you are an individual of taste and distinction. But don't encourage me, Laurie B will nuke you...

Speaking of one of the "Sisterhood of The Hoping To Get Into Don's Pants," where's this week's edition of "Attention Deficit Theater"?

Don't think I won't jump you LB and write something. I'm already imagining a "cut to catfight" scene that ends with Joan's shattered girdle pinning Harry to a filing cabinet, Jane's sweater in a shredded pile at Roger's feet and then of course his second in-office heart attack...

Betty has not been in denial about Don's cheating. When she found out that Don was talking to her psychiatrist behind her back, the first thing she did was tell her Dr. that her husband was having affairs and that when he was making love to her, she knew he was doing things that some other woman liked, but not her. Betty knew her Dr. would tell Don and for a time, Don was behaving. I absolutely LOVED her throwing up in his beautiful new caddy!! Just what he deserves!!

Man, Don elicits a range of emotions, huh? I feel terrible pity for him, some here just dream of getting it on with him and others clearly see him as a deserving scapegoat for their past experiences of real-life betrayal. (She yakked in his new Caddy--righteous baby!)

I suppose these range of feelings are the best compliments Matt & Co. could get for their work.

There's a certain smugness in these posts about how much more enlightened we've become since the benighted days of the Mad Men: we don't smoke or litter, aren't "sexist"... yadda yadda yadda.
But we're vastly less free to speak our minds openly--versus anonomously online--and common sense has taken a real beating. Also, most glaringly, the educated classes of that day were much better educated than the educated classes of our own.
At some level we all recognize this.
I don't hear anyone here saying, "Thank God those days are gone."
I think we have mixed feelings and I'm not sure I wouldn't trade our times for theirs.

JimK: Just to be clear: I wasn't trying to reprimand you - I was just commenting on how you seemed to anticipate people slamming you for your provocative opinion. I was just making an observation - not aimed at anyone in particular.

Great discussion here. I love this show!

I have started a Mad Men group on Los Angeles community SingularCity.com

60'schild
it was Betty Crocker who was asking about the BSN
thanks anyway
chEErs

I wonder why so many of you are under the impression that only four episodes remain this season; there are thirteen total, just like Season One. So good news, we're just past the halfway point.
Thanks to greytone for referring viewers to Matt Weiner's video blog, I concur that it's a must see. Now I have to find the time to view them all.....
As a Jew I was taken completely by surprise when it was pointed out that Betty's reply to Jimmy Barrett was anti-Semitic; I thought she was talking about people in show business. I'm embarassed to say that it hadn't even occurred to me that he is Jewish. However, this does make sense given his occupation, the previous remark by Bobbie, and of course Mr. Weiner's own heritage.
I think Jimmy was upset for two main reasons:
1) He sees Betty as the ultimate prize and therefore Don should consider himself lucky to have her and not cheat.
2) You have to admit, it's pretty trashy to not only cheat on another man's wife, but then to practically flaunt it right in front of him. Don could have easily told Betty that he wasn't going to the party; we know what he says goes in the Draper household.
This raises the issue: why did Don attend Jimmy's party? He had broken things off with Bobbie at that point so wasn't there already the possibility of a scene? An unconscious desire to be caught? I don't think so. He seems to be playing a game where the risk of getting caught is half the fun, or maybe in his mind the game has no bad consequences. Perhaps he had fooled himself into believing that the invite from Jimmy meant he was clueless about the affair. I loved it when Jimmy called him "garbage" because you could tell that Don knew he was right. (This was the second time this season that the best line left the recipient speechless. Remember Joan to Paul?)
We know that Betty didn't hear the confrontation so I'm looking forward to seeing if and how she confronts him herself.

I'm still wondering what happened to Chauncy. It's weird but I find myself hung up on what happened to the dog.

I could be wrong, but Betty's comment about "you people" sure sounded like an ethnic slur to me. At first I didn't know Jimmy was Jewish. I thought "Barrett...What is that? Irish? Why would she say a thing like that." But now that I know he's Jewish it makes sense. Maybe Weiner wanted it to be vague so I suppose you could interpret it as a slur or as a comment about showbiz types. I think the vagueness also says something about the nature of racism too. People often attribute racism to lower-class "rednecks". When we think of racism we think of something more direct like calling Jewish folk the "K" word and blacks the "N" word, but these are upper class northerners in the U.S. and the racism is more subtle and "polite". Remember Francine's comment about big noses. Very snide and subtle. It's something you could miss if you weren't watching carefully.

Sorry, I should have said anti-semitism.

Zamboknee - I miss Chauncy, too. The final scene with him made me so upset.

JimK - re: Pete Campbell - I should clarify...he is a brilliantly developed character and I did feel sorry for him (once) when Peggy told him that she had work to do. I just didn't realize that he wasn't in the episode until I was typing my comment.

LOVE Joan...Jane is the new girl in town and Joan is old news. It's a control issue...

Betty may be a horrible mother, but she looked beautiful in the scenes at the Stork Club.

I can't wait to see how the writers deal with the litterbug Drapers in the next episode. The park scene was well done...it was impolite to talk about money but it was ok to litter.

Someone last week was wondering with whom Don was going to christen the new car. I guess we know how it got christened now.

If Don was really creative he could have come back with, "If, as you say, I'm not the only one, what does that make you? A pimp or a cuckold?" Would have shut down Jimmy in a heartbeat. Or given him a heart attack.

Re: Littering. I can remember stopping alongside the road during family trips to have sandwiches, etc. made by my Mom. Long before '62, we kids had to police the area before we left. Of course, Dad spent years in the Navy.

Does anyone else feel that Peggy's nightclub appearance was probably just a wish-fulfillment dream she had that evening after Joan's rude comment to her earlier in the day?

If we ever get to see her real makeover I'm sure there will be a WOW factor involved like Betty Davis in "Now, Voyager." After a long vacation? At Joan's wedding? Before a presentation?

JimK: Hmmm.... 13 paragraphs this time. You're pushing it. But I admit it's percreptive post, as are most of yours. And much more succinct than the 24+ paragraph tome from a couple shows ago. Are you the one I gave the dressing down for just liking to see your brilliance on the page? And then that nazi came on the forum and said we were having pen-sex or something weird? Well she's gone, so.....

Thanks for including me with other sharp MM forum fans.

Attention Deficit Theater usually comes out the Thursday following the show, so as soon as its up tomorrow, I'll put out the link here.

Re: Jane. She is not a lesbian. I think she's a manipulator with an ulterior motive. She's not there for a career - she's there to land a husband. She's not interested in any of the "boys" because she already picked her target -- Roger. She goes right to the top, man! Perhaps another metaphor here - the gold violin. She's going to "play" Roger like a fiddle??

Ritt: "A pimp or a cuckhold"..... yeow, you might win a mug or something for that comment. That was brilliant, and I bet Don's wishing he would have said that; you know how you come up with all sorts of snappy comebacks AFTER the situation's over? Sighhhh......

MY dad was in the Navy too. We had to respect ourselves, our belongings and our surroundings too. But I do remember driving down the highway in those days leaving blowing,dancing cups, papers, wrappers in our wake, there was so much litter in certain places. Clueless slobs! How embarrassing to think back on that now.

Just to be clear, our family didn't THROW the trash out the window while driving, it was already littered on the highways.

These posts are amazingly insightful. I'm surprised that no one's speculated about what happened after Don left Bobbi strapped to her bed. Did Jimmy find her there? If so, she must have had to account for her peculiar state.

Jim K: Yes, I am a member of the "Sisterhood of Hoping To Get Into Don's Pants!" What gave me away? LOL!

E_Llama: You make a good point at just how insidious racism and anti-Semitism is when it's undercover and spoken by someone who doesn't fit the stereotype or "Hollywood-version" of a racist.

May I ask a question? Why do we assume Betty's remark "you people" was referring to Jews rather than just Jimmy and Bobbie? Didn't she just mean that they were ugly people? I never once thought she meant anything else.

Don, throwing the beer can, isn't a very Madison Avenue thing to do, is it the farm boy emerging more and more into his persona?

Well speaking of garbage did any of you pick up on Joan's attitude towards Jane? First Joan is snooping around to find out what happened regarding Jane going with the boys and leading them into Coopers office like Eve saying come bite the apple. Joan has already been riding Jane about things like her open blouse which btw Roger hates the new sweaters she has been buying, heh. Joan wasn't head hunting any of the guys that went to Cooper's office.

Then Joan has the gall to fire Jane like throwing out some garbage for standing up to her. "I'll go to the break room to find your replacement and I don't want to find you here when I come back". Then Monday morning Joan says "what on God's green earth are you doing here?" Now visualize the Draper park scene with litter dumped.

Joan's been riding Jane's back ever since the younger woman's been at Draper's door. Joan's a has-been and feels threatened by a younger, "fresher" woman. Joan's always had a funky, condescending attitude towards others. It was about time an arrogant, unintimidated "girl" got all up in Joan's face! Kudos to Jane for having the guts to face down the office barracuda!

I love everything about this show, the era, the sub text, the clothes, the sets, etc.

But being the Car nut I am and my father buying a new Cadillac every 2 years since 1954 the caddies in the opening scene were NOT 1962's they were 1961's so your people whom do such research need to be a little more up on the autos of the day

Antisemitism was rife in this period, in the advertising business and everywhere, and this was a running thread throughout Season 1. Remember the brouhaha about the Iraeli campaign and the whole Rachel affair? How they should take their business to a Jewish firm? How Don took part in the anti-Semitic jokes the guys were throwing around? How Don was attracted by the "foreignness" and outsider quality of Rachel?

And believe me, Betty, the ultimate WASP, was raised in a anti-Jewish atmosphere. I'm sure the country club she and Don belong to is restricted (no Jews allowed) and perhaps even their neighborhood. This was not unusual for the 50s and 60s. And no, this might not be spelled out exactly for the nuance-deprived, but it is the milieu of the time, people!

When someone uses the phrase "you people," nine to one they're talking about an ethnic group. As a matter of fact, a current example comes to mind: if you've seen the TV ads for the movie "Tropic Thunder," Robert Downey Jr's character (a white guy playing a black guy) says "What do you mean, 'you people'!" Then the REAL black guy on the set says,"Yeah. What DO you mean, 'you people.'"

I didn't find Betty's comment to be anti-semitic. I thought she was referring to people in show business. She said to Jimmy on the phone that celebrities make her shy. Jimmy also told her, "don't leave me alone with those people."

I thought it was hilarious that she threw up in the car at the end. Loved it!

**May I ask a question? Why do we assume Betty's remark "you people" was referring to Jews rather than just Jimmy and Bobbie? Didn't she just mean that they were ugly people? I never once thought she meant anything else.**

Well, it can be interpreted on a number of levels I suppose, And I think people have answered your question, but I thought Jimmy's reaction seemed to suggest that it was an ethnic slur. Why are people so resistant to the possibility that Betty might be bigoted? Because she's rich, beautiful and refined? Because she's a victim of oppression herself? Because she's educated? This show is all about the ugliness that lurks beneath a beautiful exterior. If she was bigoted it's not like it would be out of place given the time period and the nature of the show.

I'm not saying she's a bad person. I feel sorry for her character, but she is a product of her time and environment. Beliefs like racism/anti-semitism don't always manifest themselves as an active, conscious hatred. Sometimes it can be a set of deeply ingrained beliefs, attitudes and assumptions you have about other groups...as well as your own. A person might not even be aware of it.

I wonder...has the creator commented on this at all?

@Eternal and Femme....Thank you for expressing what I've been trying to say. You both have much more tact than I!

The guys on this site don't go on about wanting "to get in the pants" of the MM women--and those women are hot, all of them--in a real-woman way that you don't see in shows nowadays.
So, Visan, et al., don't you have boyfriends? Or are today's men somehow deficient?
Just asking.

JimK - thank you for the post about Pete. You made me see a different side of him. I think that Vincent K is doing a great job with the role.

To move away from the whole, "Just how anti-semitic is Betty" thing, if we could, I am beginning to wonder if Don should have listened to Bert Cooper's advice about embracing his rise into the ruling class.

What Cooper said to Harry about the Rothko, that at heart he bought it as an investment, not anything softer, makes me think he will treat Don much the same way. He'll let SC ride Don's rise for what it's worth, regardless of how it opens Don to disclosure, disgrace and probably prison as he becomes better known and more conspicuous.

Clients that Don brings in for now will improve those columns Cooper still watches so carefully with Harry on the balance sheet. But when Don crashes and burns, SC will remain afterward, shocked publicly, but nonetheless richer.

Watch out Don. Hubris is usually punished. Harshly.

I think Betty's comment was anti-semetic also. That "you people" gave it away. Plus, I find her to be a vapid, shallow person. Her character and scenes still manage to interest me, which speaks highly of the actress and writers. I don't feel sympathy for her, even though Don is a chronic philanderer. I don't think she'd really be happy if Don were the model husband. She's stuck in suburban motherhood, and that's not what makes her tick. She's cold to her children. But what would appeal to her? I don't know.

Don is so flawed, but I take to him and feel for him. He's so complicated and layered. He's got good in him and a lot of bad.

Thanks tbc. Vincent K is dynamite, huh? I'm betting Don learns that Pete is Peggy's baby daddy before Pete does.

And Don, when I say "punished" I mean a lot worse than just some barf on the front seat of the new Cadillac!

enough with the "anti-semitic," already.
when you're upset you reach for the available epithet, at least in those non-pc days.
if jimmy wasn't jewish, but fat, that would have been her epithet.

Demolino: This forum is about Mad Men and its characters and plots. I make comments regarding Don Draper and other fake characters on the show. I will never make personal comments on other posters because that's not my style!

I have to admit, I was so glad when Connor "died" in Angel. He did a great job with that character too.

JimK: Pete is a punk and weasel! I wanna choke his tongue out of his head every time he's on the show! It's all because Vinny K is a fabulous actor! His scenes are always on the one!

This episode was full of symbolism, and entertaining as well. It zoomed by. If you're interested in a roundtable on the topic, here's a link:

http://www.spunkybean.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=628&Itemid=55

One of the most interested and compelling scenes in this most recent episode is the one where Cooper is inviting Don to be a part of the "ole boys club". This event is one which will, forever, change Don's life but Cooper accomplishes it in such an incredibly understated manner..

I've never be a big fan of Joan's and am lovin' seeing Jane take her down a notch or two...I have always though that Joan's "iron fist in the velvet glove" tyranny of the office was a bit over top (though I know that in office politics and culture the character she protrays is all to real) she seemed to me to be the kind of person that rather than really accept the challenge to become self-actualized would rather stay in her preceived 'position of power'...the large bottom and ample bustline will in about ten years (unless she becomes one of the first personal trainers) soon become "a** for days" and boobs that hang down to her knees".....
Hopefully Jane will become as wise as she is daring and follow Peggy into the ranks of professional advertising excutive...

I lived on the west coat and was 11 in 1962 so I guess the anti-semitism was lost on me and my family. One of my best friends was Jewish and I don't remember her facing any abuse. Of course my parents were very liberal.

Was it me or did Joan look positively menacing in that shot where she was looming above Jane's desk? Joan's makeup was downright terrifying in that shot. hehe

I love this show. I love the people, the attention to detail and of course Don Draper, even if he really is garbage by many standards. But who want to watch our lives unfold on TV? But, the math is kind of sketchy. As others have posted we know Don is 36 in 1962, which makes him 18 in 1944 and going off to war in WWII. Not Korea. By the time he gets to Korea in 1950, he is 24 years old. He implies when asked by the real Don Draper that he joined and was not drafted. Either way he was bumbling and rather unsure of himself.

Suddenly through flashbacks, it's 1952 and he is a slick used car salesman. And a scant 8 years later (1960) he has A wife, two kids, two cars, a fully furnished house in Ossining, and is promoted to partner of a Madison Avenue Advertising Firm. Now it's 10 years later and he is climbing the New York social ladder.

Mr. G.: I agree that numbers don't always seem to add up, but Don was in Korea, as it was revealed last season. He probably joined because it was the only opportunity he could find to get out of his situation back on the farm. Not every guy that enlists is fresh out of high school. My brother joined the Army at age 22 after a couple of years of dead-end jobs and messing around - best thing for him.

Re: Jane again . . . Yes, she IS a manipulator with an ulterior motive AND she could still be a lesbian. She doesn't have be at SC to land a husband or build a career-maybe she's just a shi* disturber-there's one in very workplace!

The writers surprise us all the time. Just because Jane is beautiful and feminine and not butch, doesn't necesaarily mean she's straight. Appearances can be deceiving-the crux of Mad Men itself.

demolino..enjoyed your post...
Jonathan........You're right, Betty didn't hear the confrontation and Don doesn't know that Jimmy had a chat with her, too!.........great post........In the car he was speechless and she was catatonic!...no music...the silence was deafening...loved it...
eternal_llama/Femme1...well said...no word from MW...he's probably saving it for Season 2 DVD...

i just find it interesting that the men on this site don't make sexual comments about the show's women, but the women on the site (some of them) do go on about DD.
I'm no slouch myself, but sure I'm jealous!

The brouhaha over Betty's angry anti-Semitic outburst at Jimmy is curious because too many are imposing today's values on the culture that existed in the early '60s before the cultural revolution that blossomed in the late '60s. Westchester County, where the Drapers live, was anything but the diverse and cosmopolitan place it is today. Even as a kid, you understood that Jews could not buy homes in some communities and country clubs were Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. You accepted certain rules, as stupid as they were.

Another thing is the speculation about Jane's sexuality, that she may be a lesbian. Possibly I missed something in the plot because it seems a quantum leap to draw such a conclusion. Jane is a stellar beauty and (crudely put) a c/t whose m/o is to manipulate men and trash women. She was a symptom of the times when a woman's best asset in the workplace was sex appeal (still is, but women today can compete with their intellect as well). The Joan/Jane experience/youth bitch contest can end up with either one on top, subject to how the script writers develop the plot, but in no way will their relationship turn homosexual. That would be an absurd plot distortion, and totally out of sync with the story's setting.

Not to nitpick the nitpickers, but the real Don Draper was a couple of years older than Dick Whitman. When you assume another man's identity, even in 1952, you assume his birthday, ssn, etc. Although Jon Hamm doesn't look 33-34, I don't find it too hard to believe that the character could be that age. All that hard livin' has taken its toll.
Having said that, becoming Don Draper meant way more than just changing his name, it meant saying goodbye to Dick Whitman, an identity that he hated even as a child and still hates. This transformation gave him the confidence that he never felt as Dick Whitman and allowed him to become the stereotypical slick used-car salesman (say what you will but the successful ones make damn good money). It was then a short hop to advertising and the fast track to an executive office. Was his rise to advertising fame meteoric and perhaps improbable? Yes, of course. Isn't that the point?

**i just find it interesting that the men on this site don't make sexual comments about the show's women, but the women on the site (some of them) do go on about DD.**

It might be his lousy behavior, but I honestly don't find Don that sexy at all. Too many damn issues. Aside from his looks, he's NOT a catch. I'd sooner go for Harry. He's one of the few guys on the show whom I don't want to punch in the face.

None of that explains my Jimmy love though. I think he reminds me of Ari Gold (Entourage) whom I also adore. Maybe it's just the no BS brutal honesty that turns me on.

I'm also glad that Joan is getting some competition in the office. I don't hate Joan, but I can't say that I like her either.

eternal llama: I think Don is sexy, but only in a fantasy way, not a "I think he's my soulmate so I'm going to marry him and take him home to Mama" kind of way. A lot of women fall for the bad boy, even though we know he's bad for you (like that chocolate doughnut that will break your diet), and Don is the ultimate bad boy. He's a badass alpha male that is intriguing and seductive in his own way. A keeper? No. You're totally right that Harry's the closest thing to a good guy on the show, and he is endearing and kinda cute in a dorky way. Don is the handsome but deadly charmer that you might lust after or have an affair with. You wouldn't end up with him, but he would be an interesting memory to tell your grandkids.

Don is a high-end booty call! Nothing more!

Yes, I'd like "the full Don Draper treatment."

But I wouldn't want to marry him!

@ PJ: I made no speculation that the relationship between Joan and Jane would turn homosexual--perhaps you need to re-read my post. I was stating that Jane COULD turn out to be a lesbian--that's how I interpreted it.

Like I said earlier, the MM writers surprise us all the time with plot twists (who would have thought Don would find Peggy in the mental ward?). Just because Jane is beautiful and feminine and not butch, doesn't necessarily mean she's straight. Appearances can be deceiving-the crux of Mad Men itself.

FYI: For example, other posters viewed Betty's remark to Jimmy as anti-semetic. I did not see it that way (at least at first), but it's certainly not improbable--it was a remark that is subject to different interpretations. Same for Duck ditching Chauncey--was he being intentionally cruel or was it the pathetic reasoning of the diseased mind of an addict? Different interpretations my friend. . . .

Yea right Visan, I'd pay significant cash to see the catfight between you and Gail to see who gets to jump on Don first. But like I've said before I've always been a bit of a darksider. Mind if I shoot a little video of the Don/Visan or Don/Gail encounter? Don't worry, I'm a gentleman, I'd give you girls a copy. You'd be able to consider it a momento similar to Monaca's blue dress with Bill's DNA on it.

Hanna, you've got to be kidding. Harry's a pussy. Women spit on guys like him. Ken, I can understand. If I were female he'd strike me as the kind of guy I'd be attracted to but Harry, he's pathetic. Why would any woman want to breed with that?

Dennis: Uh, oh. Am I getting a "reputation?"

Dennis: To each her own, man. Harry's on the opposite end of the spectrum than Don. If you don't dig the alpha male, Harry's your guy. Harry might be appealing to women who are alpha themselves and want a guy that won't try to push them around. He's not flashy or perfect, but he's alright, quiet and sweet for the most part. Kinda like a slightly awkward teddy bear. Like I said, Don may be the fantasy bad boy, but Harry might be the low-key guy a women settles down with.

Personally, I'm not a fan of blondes, so I wouldn't go for Ken (he tries too hard to impress women anyway). I was a little like Hildy in the Nixon V. Kennedy ep - Harry doesn't look too shabby with his glasses off, IMHO.

Yeah, I don't quite know what makes Harry a "pussy". He seems like a really good guy. Don just has a boatload of issues and all the other alpha males on the show --as well as those trying to be--look at how they behave. They don't really respect women. Who wants to come home to that? It's one thing to watch and fantasize on screen, but the reality wouldn't be quite so pretty. Harry actually seems like a decent person. He's the kind of man you could come home to.

I think Pete is hot. Looking forward to more happening between him and Peggy..
My Dad made plastic baby pants in the 50's and 60's and went bankrupt in 1972 after they went out of fashion. He and my mother were in the same age range as the Drapers and they drank and smoked like chimneys. Mom decorated the house like those in the show. She was very fashion conscious back then and always was up with the latest look.

..and yes, the actor who plays Pete is fantastic.

I find Harry VERY unsexy! Pete and Paul too! Yuck!

Don Draper is teh sex!

Ha!

hey, is Joan engaged to a plastic surgeon?? That would explain her strangely morphing body,LOL.

When I saw Kitty, Sal's wife, cooking in the kitchen I recognized the dress she was wearing. I have that same dress!!! It was my mother's dress. She recently died and my 16 year old daughter found that dress and another one in her closet. She loves vintage clothes, so we brought them home. Imagine my surprise when I saw the dress on the show! It is a very distinctive dress with its large red roses and applique. I love it!

dvalentine,
I noticed the rose applique, I loved that dress!

BTW, I just found out that, Bobbie's last episode was, "The Gold Violin". Jimmy's last episode will be, "Six Month Leave", which is on week after next. So they are outta there! Also, Jane Siegel, is not on anymore, she was only supposed to be in 2 episodes. I'm glad.

How do you know this stuff Nora?

JimK,
I'm sorry, I meant to say I found out from Imdb.

With Jane gone, I wonder what the new secretary will be like. The writers will also have to explain her absence - will she be sent to the phone closet as punishment for her crimes?

Also, Duck is not in any more episodes?? I wonder how they will write him off. Don did say to him, if you get any more confidence you're going to explode. This is after last episode when we saw him spiraling badly. Hemm?

Hanna,
Looks like it's Candace Cunningham, look her up on Imdb. What do you think?
Le Monde Byrd is on next episode as Hollis, he was also on the hobo episode 8. What connection I wonder???

I hate to even think of the last episode of this Season, but the title is, "Meditations in an Emergency". The next to the last episode has no title yet. And, next week's episode is actually written by Matt himself! "A Night to Remember".

Isn't "Meditations in an Emergency" the name of that book that Don sent to a mystery person in the first episode of the season? Sounds like all will be revealed.

I know that the titles are supposed to sum up the ep and explain a theme, but it's hard to guess what they are just yet. It will all make sense later, I'm sure.

I have to disagree with the Jane-as-dangerous manipulator thread. She reads more like a bored teenager seeking thrills to me.

All the guys were scared and in awe of Cooper's office and her flippant breach of protocol was obviously meant as a raised eyebrow and a challenge to their simpering.

Sure, she played the "They made me do it!" card when Joan confronted her but quickly dropped it when pressed. (Even had she been believed there was very little chance of any serious repercussions for the guys.). But her next tack is to mouth off rather than play it cool -- telling Joan she's hogging all the fun and to stop treating her like a baby -- which (surprisingly, to her) gets her canned.

And yes, she plays Sterling like a bass fiddle, but he plays her right back. And now she's just traded one-upping Joan for the stickier problem of owing Mr. S some sugar. Once she does get his blessing to stay, she's terrified -- boardering on paranoid with Ken: "I'm being watched!" and literally shaking in her boots when Joan confronts her. She holds her own but barely and now she's made a powerful enemy in Joan and indebted herself to a horn-dog with a heart condition - Mata Hari she ain't.

Still, I think it's fun to see someone showing some moxie. Everyone at SC mindlessly adheres to the status quo, and though her approach is chaotic and impulsive at least it's not conformist.

Rita: Have to agree that Jane and the Smiths are can really inject life into the SC scenes...and perhaps the whole show! I tire of seeing the same ol' faces over and over again. (Don's "mug" is an exception! LOL!)

pattyo wrote:
And Jimmie's parting comment to Betty --I can't remember it word for word--about him being a lowlife comedian. Alot in this episode to enjoy!
-------

I think the subtext was that Betty was making an anti-Semitic comment when she said "you people." Jimmy was being sarcastic when he asked "comedians?" I wonder if this was a nod to the film/book "Gentleman's Agreement" - with Betty demonstrating the subtle but influential and accepted prejudice of the day.

Now littering: We are still a couple of years away from Ladybird Johnson's Keep America Beautiful campaign. People are commenting on Betty's litter - but Don first threw his bottle into the field.

Was "The Gold Violin" a hommage to Yeats's "Sailing to Byzantium"?

"Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come."

Hi everyone, what a show! I really enjoy reading everyone's posts here, and must say it's refreshing to read words from people who can spell & punctuate! I wanted to share some thoughts/comments too.
**Someone mentioned no sighting of the Draper dog. When Sally & Betty came home after Betty's car broke down, Sally ran in & said "Polly!!"
**Did anyone else notice how Smith called Peggy "sweetheart" when he motioned her to turn on the music for the coffee jingle? She just can't get herself recognized for the job she is doing
**I was giggling with how overdressed Sal, Kitty & Ken were for just a Sunday dinner, in their home no less. Very respectful but overkill? Also I was surprised how quickly Ken bolted out of there.
**Betty actually went out of her way to shake the garbage off their blanket & onto the grass. Also a hoot that Don didn't want Sally's silly putty in the car, they wanted to be sure everyone used the bathroom before getting into the car & had clean hands, in their car! Yet they dump trash outdoors?
**Love the innuendo with Don & Betty in the new car, "you want to take her around the block? "not in here"...seems like Don wavers between treating Betty like Mrs. Cleaver & Bobbie.....?
**Roger/Joan sweater comment: my take was that she looked so spectacular that Roger didn't want men ogling his daughter, not that he didn't like the sweater
**When did men stop wearing hats every day and/or for business? I love that look, very classy/fashionable. Brad Pitt seems to be bringing that look back
**I won't miss Duck if he's gone. I noted after landing the coffee account, Don pours himself a drink & asks Duck if he wants him to send out for something for Duck. Was alcoholism really open like that? Would that be something co-workers would know about one another? I guess you'd need some kind of excuse if not partaking in the daily boozing at the office
@ Tootsie: Love the "secret" in secretary comment. Never thought of that but how apropos!! Also doesn't it seem women of that era, while maybe "full figured", never had cellulite on their legs?? Also at the fashion show, there was a kelly green bikini with big white polkadots, my mom had the exact suit!! Then again, she was a blonde, blue-eyed cheeky gal who came to NY from Dublin in 1961 as a 21 year old !!! LOL !!

"**I won't miss Duck if he's gone. I noted after landing the coffee account, Don pours himself a drink & asks Duck if he wants him to send out for something for Duck. Was alcoholism really open like that? Would that be something co-workers would know about one another? I guess you'd need some kind of excuse if not partaking in the daily boozing at the office"

Don and the Guys know Duck's drinking was one of the reasons he left London (mentioned in the Season One episode when he's interviewing.) That he's on the Temperance wagon now was something they all understood. That doesn't mean in the beginning they wouldn't offer him a drink.

Duck is probably the most accurately portrayed mad man. He's my idea of what an ad exec was in those days. I hope they keep him.
btw tighten up the language: "focus!", imperative, was not used until the 1990s, e.g., on West Wing someone said it in every episode.

and...i thought dd was 36 in 1960, the first season.
interesting how ages have advanced about 10 years since then.
i mean, dd would be portrayed as 46 (or 48) today; betty and her friends as around 40.
captain kirk, if you remember, was 34 (earth years).

Sassy: Hatters across the country began going out of business after Kennedy's election in 1960. He simply did not wear a hat, so men of America followed the trend. I don't remember my father wearing a hat, ever.

Can someone explain the Smith's to me? They are the most annoying duo since Laverne and Shirley. That one Smith - does he speak English? What is he ever saying? It sounds like gibberish. Are they a 'couple'?

Some comments about “barfing.”

Notice the different treatment of Betty and Roger in their “heaving”scenes?

Betty (Episode 7 of Season 2, “The Golden Globe”) is shown going home in the new Cadillac, looking uncomfortable and sitting far away from Don. Then comes the vomiting, very lady-like and seen only briefly. While the camera pans to Don looking pained, we hear a few more hacking spasms from Betty, but we don’t see her again.

Remember Roger’s great scene (Episode 7, Season 1, “Red in the Face”)? After Roger has shared a cozy lunch with Don---martinis, oysters, and cheesecake accompanied by lots of smoking---he and Don walk up 23 flights of stairs to the Sterling Cooper office (the elevator breakdown having been set up by Don). Roger enters the reception area of SC where Bert Cooper and some clients are waiting. Standing in front of them, Roger suddenly expels a really impressive volley of vomit onto the floor, one of the clients commenting that he recognized oysters in the mess. (I don’t know how John Slattery managed to keep all that “throw up” in his mouth before letting loose.)

Betty is beautiful, cultured, and soft-spoken. (She used to do some modeling, you know.) Even her “barfing” is in character with her ice princess persona, sort of delicate and inoffensive, except to Don to whom the new car will never be the same. But that is our Betty. She does everything with class!

I agree with RitaT about Jane being more of a thrill-seeking teenager than a conniving manipulator. I see the main women characters as representing various types and generations in the series.

Joan knows what her assets are and uses them to her full advantage. She's risen to the position of top secretary because she's efficient and good at what she does, and she flaunt her sexiness in an office where the powers that be appreciate it. All of her advice to Peggy shows where her head is at--use your body if you've got it. She's not above an office affair, but she's been incredibly discreet about it. Joan doesn't really think of trying to usurp a man's position, although she sure is smart enough to be an account executive with the best of them. She's a product of her time. She might be somewhat mean to the other women (called "girls" of course) in the office, but she does manage them. She doesn't understand Peggy at all. Joan is fine with using what she can to get by in her world as it is now, and doesn't imagine what it could be like if she wasn't just seen as a sex object. She's probably not "in love" with her fiance, but finding a good husband and provider was all part of what women did at the time. She's not pining over Roger at all, but she is a little jealous of Jane. And she is getting old to still be single (at least according to the standards of the day.) (BTW, I don't think Joan's getting "fat"---it seems they've been shooting her at these odd camera angles so she seems large in comparison with the other actors. And the fact that many on here think she's huge is REALLY telling about our own standards of beauty--but that's a whole other post. If you think she's big, take a look at Jayne Mansfield, Marilyn Monroe, or Anita Ekberg...they all look soft and squishy.)

Jane's the new generation of secretaries coming into the office, and she IS threatening to Joan. She's young and the guys flock to the new girl. She attempting to be "wild" re: breaking into Cooper's office. She's part of the Pepsi generation--"For those who think young." She doesn't care much about being a "good" secretary, and she's not willing to kowtow to Joan, which annoys Joan. Roger wants to fall in love--that's all he cares about. And Jane looks like a possible candidate.

Peggy's the new woman...the one who doesn't want to use her body to get ahead, but who is really interested in being a success on her own merits. She's at a terrible disadvantage in that male-dominated world, and today those guys would have SUCH a sexual harassment suit hanging over them. Did you see how uncomfortable she looked when she dressed up and went to the stripper bar? And having to sit on the client's lap? I really admire those women that were in her position and still made good; they paved the way for the rest of us. It was hard for them. She also represents the woman whose lack of sexual education and sophistication made her unable to control her own reproductive ability. She's also Catholic, which adds a whole level and burden of guilt. And there is her son, still in her family, to constantly remind her of her failure and her mental breakdown.

Hi Laurie B. LOL! I was thinking the Smiths are more like Lenny and Squiggy from Laverne and Shirley!

Hanna,
Yes, "Meditations in an Emergency" is the book Don had. I'm sure we'll find out who he sent it to. Will Rachel come back?

I just re-watched the previews of next week's episode that aired along with "The Gold Violin", and Joan says, "some people think he's dead and he's not". Is she talking about Duck? I'm just wondering how they are going to phase him out. I saw it strange that he returns with all this confidence after such a hard episode the week before where he was going through so much turmoil.

Another thing I failed to comment on was Peggy's look. She's back to her ponytail and even curlier bangs. Geez, I thought she would have changed after her makeover scene. What happened? Also, next week she confronts her baby situation!!!Good!

Femme1,
BTW, Jane's out. Her last episode was "The Gold Violin".

60s Child: Lennie & Squiggy!! Of course! I'm embarrassed I didn't think of that. You're right - and ANNOYING!!..... omg, the worst!

remembering:
surely you jest.
if finishing school is "class," betty has it.
otherwise, she's vapid, IMHO.
i thought rachael had class, and so does mr. cooper--both thinking people with some depth.
what has betty ever thought about?

Sizzie....
Take a look at the tape again....Betty's head appears over Don's left shoulder right after Jimmy says, "You're garbage, and you know it." She is standing there when Jimmy smiling tells them both, "Well, goodnight you two...it's been a gas!"

Why is this important? Because it's essential to the 'set-up' that the audience understand Betty didn't know what Jimmy said to Don (business?), and Don doesn't know that Jimmy had a similar conversation with Betty. The fact that neither knew the anguish the other was in, and they still are so selfish they do not reach out to comfort one another adds to the impact of what happens next.

So....on the drive home there they sit.....both caught in their own thoughts. He wondering how h*ll Jimmy found out, what if someone else knows...? And Betty, thinking...how did I not see it?...could it be true?....what did I miss?...did he lie to me again?
Amazing!

You're right,m greytone. The second time I watched the scene, it was pretty clear that Betty was far enough away when she walked up to Don that she wouldn't have heard the tail end of their conversation. Besides, I imagine that she was already lost in her own thoughts of how she would have to drive home with Don while she knew what he'd done. It makes that drive home scene all the more intense.

I've been pondering why this episode was named The Gold Violin, and I thik just got it.

Recall Ken saying something lto the effect of the violin was beautful to look at, it couldn't play a tune. Doesn't that describe the relationships featured? Don/Betty, Jimmy/Bobbie, Sal/Kitty? They all look glossy on the surface, but underneath they are not "playing beautiful music" together.

Remember, these dysfunctional relationships of that time became our parents, which led to the changes and discontent of the following years.

I love that this show is full of subtlety, metaphors, hidden meanings. It doesn't dumb down for the audience, nor become inscrutable, like some popular shows I could name.

Demolino, yes, I was being facetious in that last paragraph description of Betty, certainly not praising her. I should have added the word "superficial" somewhere. I like your use of "vapid."

VISAN

I could not even finish the rest of the comments before I could post this. You have made several comments on different threads about racial comments on the show, namely, Jewish remarks. If it upsets you that bad, don't watch it!! I agree whole heartedly with JimK. Why not get mad at the fact that women are drinking and smoking while pregnant (Betty's next door neighbor and friend), or the sexual harassment in the office? The point is you're making a big deal about one aspect of the show that is painting a very real image of that era. You're comments lead me to think that you are young and not one who was an adult of that era, and that you are Jewish and you are highly offended. It's just a show!! Get over it!! You make it out like January Jones herself made these comments!

HOTCHO

I agree with you on people that is pondering on this jew issue. Its only a television show that is giving a profile of the business life back in those days. Im 26 and it is very interesting to watch what actually went on in those times. I love this show alot!! Never been committed to a show but this one is a topper for me all the way. Also, Roger is fine ass hell i likem older.

Uh-oh. Do I detect a cat fight coming on? I scrolled up and down trying to find something Visan said that could be construed as being angry. We all take away different nuances from the goings-on on MM. That's what makes it so delectable!

Laurie, check around 25th and 58th down. Thats just on this thread. She's made these same remarks on other threads as well.

With regard to comments about authenticity... the IBM Selectric came out in 1961, so they were a little premature showing it in use last season. But who can blame them; it was the best typewriter ever. That said, I don't think we shouldn't be too critical about historical accuracy. They are painting a picture of the time (flawed brush strokes and all). And remember, there wasn't the instant access to vernacular like there is today (Snoop Dog adds an "izil" to a word on Monday and everyone under 20 is saying it on Tuesday), so it's entirely possible a phrase like "have a nice day" might not hit other areas of the country for quite some time.

Hotcho: You must lighten up! You might stroke out taking comments about a fake show so seriously!

**Hat tip to the Lovely Laurie B. for knowing that my comments are NEVER personal and only about MM and its characters!**

Visan, you're the one who needs to lighten up!! I see, you just repeat what I say and then you look like you're the sane one. I said to you, that it's just a show, and that you're the one making a big deal over a passing comment that may or may not have racial overtones.

The point is you're the only one on this site that has used foul, negative language. If you go back through this very thread there are many other posters that have also told you to get a grip on the whole racial, anti semitism slant you want to say is in the show.

I am the one who DOES know that its just a show, or did you miss that comment in my response as well?

Get it right before you respond to my comments!!

@Hotcho: I come on here to have fun and discuss MM, not go tit-for-tat with anonymous internet posters! You can go and live in your little negative Hotcho World while I enjoy MM and the show's characters with like-minded posters! Have a good life!

whatever makes you feel good.
now be sure and not respond if you're not going tit-for-tat!

One of the things I enjoy about this show is seeing women dressed up. I can remember dressing like that every day back then. Women today are such slobs. Back then you dressed to go to church, to the doctor, for work. If you stepped out your front door, you dressed for it. I remember when pant suits came into fashion and women started wearing them work. My mother said it was totally wrong for women to wear pants at the office, and that we would come to regret it. Young women of today have no concept of that feeling of wearing pretty clothes every day. You looked like a woman, you felt like a woman, and you were treated like a woman. I especially miss those pretty little hats that were mostly little veils that women would wear with their cocktail dresses. Cocktail dresses! Oh, I used to have such pretty cocktail dresses!

Take a chill-pill ladybugs! There's no need to attack one another personally over comments on a blog. We can disagree and not snap at individual posters. These "cat fights" just bring a negative energy to the forum and scare people away. Let's all bond over our MM love instead. :)

I thought it was interesting that the only guy on the show who was understanding and nice to his wife when he realized he had upset her was the guy who is gay. All the other guys get mad, are insensitive and try to act "macho."

Me too Zerelda! I'm not of that generation, but I watch the show and I wonder what it must be like to do that everyday, even if you're just going to be at home all day. People don't get dressed up like that today, myself included, and wouldn't it be nice if we did.

I feel bad for Sal and Kitty because each knows there's something amiss in their marriage. At the same time, I like that he gives a damn about her needs when she was upset.

Yikes! I do detect some dander a flyin'! In Visan's defence she was only commenting on the character of Betty, not the actress herself. From reading her posts on this thread and others I can tell you that she totally gets that this is a show and not real life. She makes a point of clarifying that she doesn't get personal.
Keep it cool folks. The season is still young. I'm looking forward to more interesting posts about the character development.

@Swanky K: Gracias!

I want more info on this lady who came to the car dealership and Ms. Random House. Hopefully neither will disappear like the Russian in the "Pine Barrens" episode of the Sopranos! I'm still wondering where that dude is....Ha! Ha! Hee!

So...back to the characters..I wanted to comment on some discussion about the guys in the Harry vs. Don, Ken, Pete, etc.mode.
Okay, hands down Don is the utimate hot bad boy that I would find very hard resisting. Aside from his multiple character flaws, I am certain that he knows a thing or two between the sheets that would make any girl sing! Nothing serious though.
Harry...too pathetic, Ken too needy for approval and attention, Pete gives me the creeps, Rodger would be a blast at a party , but I wouldn't trust him alone, and Paul could make interesting conversation for a few minutes until you got that he too was trying way too hard.
A guy that would be a whole lot of fun to party with if it was cool in 1962 to be out of the closet gay, would be Sal. I can tell he has a great sense of humor and is being held back by his fear of being known. If he could just get the whole gay thing out of the way and be himself he would be a riot to work or party with.
Oh, and the Smith couple...I think that they are a little arrogant. I'm not sure they are really a couple though. I think the dark haired one was flirting w/Jane in the last episode. The blonde is cute, but strikes me as gay. (I'm thinking Sal needs to be looking in his direction instead.)
So, Don it is. Yep, he's the guy in all of his hotness!I'm hoping for some more shirtless bedroom scenes!
Oh, and I almost forgot. Does anyone else remember the actor that plays Rodger from a few long ago Sex in the City episodes? He played a NY politician that was a love interest of Carrie's in a few episodes. He had a strange fettish for wanting her to "pee on him in the shower" which really freaked her out. After their fling ended badly, she outed him in her column. It was hilarious! I don't know, but I still see him as that kinky guy in Rodger! LOL!

Swanky: I agree with your assessment on the men. Don reigns absolute--as a steamy fling!

You're right that the actor portraying Roger was "Mr. Pee on Me" on SATC. Ewww! What a creepy character he was!

Ya' , I think that Roger has that same potential for kinky in a Ewwwww way!

I think it's creepy the way Roger has mentioned his daughter while flirting or making out with a woman on more than one occasion. What is that?!

Yes, I've noticed that too. It's like he has this wierd obsession w/her even though he doesn't have a good relationship w/her. Do you think that is why he goes for all of the younger girls?
I also was unclear about what he really was trying to say to Jane about her sweater that day he commented,"I'll have to remember to tell my daughter not to shop there."
Was he saying he thought it was too slinky for his daughter or what? It seemed like a normal everyday sweater for the era. Or am I missing something?

Yeah, maybe he was saying he thought the sweater was sexy and he wouldn't want his daughter to wear it, just in an ass-backwards kind of way. That would still be odd, though, being that his daughter is almost a married woman.

Exactly. Odd he is. I still like the character because of what he add to the show. He's just a little twisted I think. I thought he was in serious bad taste when he hit on Betty. Don was being an ass when he blamed her. I think Betty is a naive twit, but I didn't think she was flirting w/him.

No, I was shocked by Don's reaction. When I watched the episode again, I though Betty was just acting like a kind and gracious hostess (laughing at his jokes and asking for more details in his story whether she was interested in it or not). Don read too much into the situation and took out his jealousy on the wrong person. I guess he thought he couldn't act angry at Roger because he was Don's boss, but that doesn't mean he can push Betty around. Don's passive-aggressive revenge at the end of the episode was pretty sweet, though.

In a way, Rodger is the simplest character on the show in regards to his motives. He's just a dirty old horn-dog!

Maybe I saw Brokeback Mountain too many times (that movie touched me in more ways than I knew I could be touched - that scene with the shirts about broke my heart - but I digress), but Sal is turning out to be one of my favorite characters on this show. It is pretty clear he is a closeted gay man in a "marriage of convenience", even if he and wife are the last to know. I am starting to wonder, though, if perhaps Mr. Don Draper might be in the same boat. Has this been discussed by any of you previously? Thoughts?

To clarify: Are you suggesting that DD is a closeted gay man in a marriage of convenience or just that his is a loveless marriage of convenience?

I am wondering if Don really likes women at all - I believe his marriage is one of convenience - the beautiful wife, the cute little kids, the nice house - I think they are all part of the Don Draper cover story. He has been trying to erase Dick Whitman - what if part of the reason for that is that Dick Whitman was gay?

Zerelda,

I do not at all believe that Dick was gay. Don/Dick has way too much of an interest in women to even make time for that possibility.

It was clear that Dick Whitman could be himself with Rachel Menkin, and he is completely suppressed around Betty and Sally Draper (as the last scene in "Maidenform" showed).

I think that the marriage is one of convenience, but not one to cover up for any homosexuality–no way.

Also, I have to add this about Sal: The writers basically tell you about his interest in men in the first episode.

Remember that sketch he brings in for the Lucky Strike campaign, the one he had a neighbor pose for–shirtless?

He doesn't know what he's doing exactly (especially with hapless oblivious Ken), even though it's clear to us. I felt so bad for him when he was looking helplessly at Kitty.

I think it's a provocative idea, DD being gay, as sometimes people try to cover up who they are by doing something in the opposite direction to the extreme. However, I don't really see any clues that would help support that assumption. There have been definite clues from the beginning with Sal, but none about this idea for Don.

The clues we've gotten so far are that Don wants to compensate for his scandalous beginnings by having the perfect life (or the facade of one) , and also that he has the possibility of being or having been violent (perhaps was abused in his past). We've seen shades of his darker side more this season than ever, and I think THAT is where the story is leading, especially once he's caught in some of his lies.

I didn't think I was going to be type of forum participant who snaps at other participants, but for chrissakes enough with the "I wonder if he's/she's gay?" crap. If you really have the need to sit around discussing who you think is gay and who might be gay but doesn't know it or whatever then start your own f***ing thread and call it "Who Do You Think is Gay?" Although the scenes with Ken and Sal might warrant discussion of both characters' sexuality, anyone who watched them closely can see that Ken has no romantic interest in Sal whatsoever. As far as the other characters, this is a well-crafted adult drama and not reality TV. Your inane pondering about everyone's sexual orientation seriously lowers the level of discourse on this forum. Give it a f***ing rest and at the same time you might want to think about growing up.

I thought Sal, and the acting, was so unbelievably real in the scene with Sal & Kitty after Ken left their home. So genuine, you could feel Kitty's pain and how sorry Sal felt. Great job!
I'm glad the Peggy and Pete storyline had a break in this last episode, something needs to move forward there.
Ditto Jonathan: Don Draper gay? Please, don't even go there. NEXT!

Salvatore is my favorite (for many reasons), but....

I've concluded that Sal is a no more attentive husband than any of the other men, but I will admit, he's the only one that responded to his wife's emotional pain. Think about it....have we seen any man really "get the message" when they have a marraige crisis or are confronted with their insensitivity?

Pete just yells louder and sings opera: "(Me, me, me, me, me, me"),
Don is dismissive: ("I don't want to hear it. What do you want me to say/do?")
Harry is a wuss when behind the 8-ball: ("Anything you want, dear.")
Roger will deflect everything with humor and wit: ("Do you have a cigarette?")

But, did you see how Salvatore stopped, looked at Kitty and listened to what she was saying? That makes him stand head and shoulders above all the other men. And, is probably why Kitty overlooks the other issues in their marraige. All in all. we see MM has laid out the different marriages of the day. Not that different today is it?

(The guy I married was most like Don.)

Well, Jonathan, right back at you. Your use of profanity certainly lowered the level of discourse, didn't it? You might want to consider showing a more mature form of response to other people's comments if you want your opinions taken seriously.

Let's not be mean to each other. Gay was not a 60's thing, we can't attribute today's social situations to that time. That's all. My parents were friends with two men in the construction industry that lived together (desk construction of some time), and it was never mentioned or even thought of, but looking back they were obviously gay.

John Slattery was in Ed and Desperate Housewives also, but I find his Roger character fun and a great one to mesh w/ Don's.

I definitely think Don is the most fascinating character on the show and the most charismatic and all the others are fabulous as well. His facade is fading and it's going to be interesting to see what emerges.

Perhaps I should have used "@#&!%" instead.

Jonathan, I forgive you, and I apologize if my musings on Don Draper's sexual preferences offended you. It was late at night or early morning, I can't remember, so perhaps I was wandering too far astray with my what ifs. That is part of the fun of watching this show, though, trying to stay one step ahead of the writers and figure out where each character is going in their storyline. On the subject of profanity, I will add that that is part of the charm of that time period. People did not use profanity as casually as folks nowadays do. Curse words spoken aloud and in mixed company were startling and frowned upon, and the "F" word was an actual bomb dropping. I well remember the first time I ever heard that word spoken in the office. A man changing the bottle on the water cooler dropped it, and as it rolled away, spilling water all over the carpet, he let loose with a string of profanities that had the women in the office recoiling in horror.

Jonathan, I forgive you, and I apologize if my musings on Don Draper's sexual preferences offended you. It was late at night or early morning, I can't remember, so perhaps I was wandering too far astray with my what ifs. That is part of the fun of watching this show, though, trying to stay one step ahead of the writers and figure out where each character is going in their storyline. On the subject of profanity, I will add that that is part of the charm of that time period. People did not use profanity as casually as folks nowadays do. Curse words spoken aloud and in mixed company were startling and frowned upon, and the "F" word was an actual bomb dropping. I well remember the first time I ever heard that word spoken in the office. A man changing the bottle on the water cooler dropped it, and as it rolled away, spilling water all over the carpet, he let loose with a string of profanities that had the women in the office recoiling in horror.

I wonder if someone will produce a similar series about 2008 45 years from now and everyone will be posting about how different things were "back then" and yet how much things have stayed the same.

...I suppose the only ones who know for sure are Matt Weiner and the Jacquemettons, but when Betty said, "You people are so ugly and crude," my very first impression was that she meant "You trashy entertainers..." Then later, the Jewish thing hit me.

Patrick Fischler completely kicked ass in that scene. His face was incredible and totally caught me by surprise. I didn't know if he was going to spit on Draper, or throttle him.

I really didn't see the confrontation coming for a number of reasons. Here are the things I don't get....

First of all, I had kind of gotten the vague impression that Jimmy might possibly be gay, and/or that his marriage to Bobbi was purely a business arrangement.

There didn't seem to be ANY husband-wife sentimentality between them, so his sudden rage was mystifying, especially since Bobbi is a total slut. Why now? And against Draper, so personally? And why drag Betty through all that?

Secondly, I never got the impression that Bobbi was Jewish by birth, so maybe that's why the "You people" comment didn't come over as racial as much as "You dirty entertainment types."

Thirdly, knowing his reaction now, I wonder if Jimmy Barrett hasn't known all along about Bobbi and Draper....remember they got all fleshy in the car, which scene was just before the big insult scene, which was just before the big apology dinner (etc.).

Is it possible that the reason Jimmy Barrett lashed out at Mrs. Utz in the first place, in front of Draper, is because he was raging inside about his wife and Draper?

That is not the first behavior you expect from a successful, seasoned performer who obviously knows better or he wouldn't be so successful.

His attacking Mrs. Utz seemed so random and mystifying - there was clearly a lot of rage there....I never did understand the vehemence there, but now.... I wonder.

Speaking of Jewish, I haven't seen anyone say anything yet about Jane's comment to Roger about the sweater.

Roger's comment to Jane was, "Where'd you get that sweater? I'll tell my daughter never to shop there."

If you know Roger, you know he's making a big pass at Jane, and that comment is a classic “Roger” sexual allusion. He is insinuating that he wouldn't want men to think similarly lascivious thoughts about his daughter.

BTW, how pointy was that bra? Not sure if I ever saw Jackie O, for instance, wearing that particular style. What “class” of girl wore a bra that pointy, I wonder?

The comment Jane made back to Roger about the sweater was, “…Klein’s….. I doubt she’d shop there….” I didn’t see if anyone else caught that, but it’s another symbol in this of something that almost doesn’t exist now….

I did not think Don D. was present at the initial outburst by Jimmy at Mrs. Utz. Was not that when he was off watching a foreign film and subsequently fired his secretary for not covering for him to his satisfaction? And didn't he first meet Bobbi then to discuss the insults to Mrs. Utz, or am I remembering everything in the wrong order?

Hey, speaking from personal experience, the bras back then were awful, period. Why do you think women were so keen to burn them later on?

Klein's on Union Square was a wonderful store even into the 1970s. But then, back then you could still buy spool thread and safety pins at Macy's.

Greytone- Great observation of Sal's sensitivity in comparison to his other male counterparts in the office.
Sal does seem to be most sensitive to what he did that upset his wife, and most willing to make it right. Interesting. It's funny because I supose that is that very trait about him that attracted Kitty to him in the first place.(Plus, he is handsome) There are a lot of gay men out there that girls love to hang out with because some of them do handle sensitivity better than a lot of straight guys they know. A lot of girls find it refreshing.
I also am liking Sal more that we are getting to know him, and feel bad for his torment over his feelings.

I' m not sure if this has been brought up (first time poster) - and this may sound ignorant because I wasn't around then, but comments like Betty's to Jimmy - did people really say things like that, since it hadn't even been 20 years since the Holocaust? I just can't imagine. Like I said, excuse me if this a stupid question.

Dry Manhatten, Jimmy Barret is an insult comic. If you need some insight into what that is, check out Don Rickles, who was huge in the 60s. Or Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog. When he "attacked" the wife of the Utz guy at the commercial shoot, he was just doing his thing, the same thing he did in his nightclub routines. Maybe he is an angry guy, but it was his shtick.

Is Joan gaining weight, or are they just emphasizing her rear? Also, was that Sal's mother on the couch at the end of the show? Did they mention why she wasn't at the dinner?

I definitely think Betty was referring to jewish people. I hear comments like that today.

The Donna Reed Show was the show I think the Romanos were watching. If so, the scene was on Wednesday evening. By the way, Candid Camera (the show Jimmy's Grin and Barrett was going to bury on ABC) was on Sunday nights on CBS at 9pm CT, followed by What's My Line? Sunday was the one school night I was allowed to stay up late because What's My Line? was supposed to be "educational". One of my publishing heroes, Bennett Cerf, was a regular panelist. It was the ladies' evening gowns, though, that really caught your attention.

My take on NYC Department Stores in the 60's:

Klein's, May's, Ohrbach's, Korvette's, and Alexander's - Cheap Clothing

Macy's, Gimbels, A&S, and Franklin Simon - Nice Clothing for the Middle Class

Bloomingdale's, Lord & Taylor, and B'Altman - Next Step Up

Sak's, Bonwit Teller, Bergdorf Goodman, Tailored Woman - Top Banana

Who did I leave out?

In case you missed the Attention Deficit Theater on Episode 7
Here's the link:
http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/7931/50/

As usual it is a great laugh!

Dry Manhattan- As I recall the fling w/Bobbie started after Jimmy had insulted Mrs. Utz, and Don was not there when it happened. He met Bobbie later when he discussed Jimmy's behavior on the set of the commercial. I never thought Bobbie acted like Jimmy's wife. She was more of a manager than anything else.
I get the feeling that Jimmy puts up w/her antics when it gets him ahead, but for some reason he felt uneased by what was going on between Bobbie and Don. Perhaps Bobbie seemed more attached to Don than other flings and Jimmy had to put Don in his place.
Good observation of Jane's comment to Roger about Kline's not being a place his daughter would shop. If what she was saying was," I'm sure your daughter shops at more expensive department stores," that would make sense. I'm not sure that there was anything more to it than that. She was giving him a bit of a brush off.
Because I didn't grow up in this era, I couldn't really comment on how white Gentiles talked about Jewish people, but I can imagine that people were a lot more open about their predjudices and comments.
buildunginhollywood- Sounds like you had the TV schedule down when you were growing up! I guess TV had become an important family pastime b/c there was probably only one TV so families watched together.
penultimate- That further gives insight to Jane's comment about where Roger's daughter would or would not shop. If Klein's was considered a lower scale store at the time, then Roger's daughter probably wouldn't shop there.

Check out this recent Christina Hendricks interview on Jimmy Kimmel live:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMBoRKBfcI

With all of the chatter about changes in her looks this season, check out her real self in this interview. She has a low cut little black number that would not be worn at the SC office for sure! She is beautiful no matter what the chatter about her, but see for yourselves.

Swanky K: Thanks for all the hook-ups. ADT was freakin' awesome - I laughed 'til I cried!

I just noticed something: In the beginning of the episode, the first glimpse of Sal's attraction to Ken, is when Ken says something sounds like a song in Westside Story... and Sal does a "hey, he likes showtunes?" doubletake...

Hi Swanky K,
I just checked out Christina Hendricks on Jimmy Kimmel. Thanks for the link. She's adorable. But, I can't help but notice that she has gained weight since begining of Mad Men. Look at her in Seadon 1 and her in the first simple red dress. She was much thinner. I'm begining to believe she is pregnant in real life!

I'll enlighten Sue, since someone needs to.
Jews, Negroes, homosexuals (the idiot description "gay" for probably the most morose of people didn't exist back then), etc. were not protected classes.
The term "Holocaust" didn't exist; it was all part of World War II.
If you found Jews (or anyone else) "crude and ugly" that was your right; you weren't forced to associate with them. It doesn't mean you want them killed, and that's a vital distinction.
I don't happen to like those sentiments, but that's the way it was.

Perhaps I am beating a dead horse in saying this but I honestly thought Betty was referring to show biz people when she made the "you people" comment to JB. Not until I read comments here did I have an "okay, I can see how this could be anti-semitc." moment. Many posters only saw it as that. I grew up in a small Iowa town with parents who were naive, but not prejudice.
Well, except for my dad's hatred for the Japanese. He fought in WWII so that was understood. So I guess I'm a bit naive?

Man, I love this show! Keep it coming.

Dry Manhattan,

I agree that Jimmy has known for a while -- he certainly knew when he 'thanked' Don in the office and told him, 'You're a real cool cat, Donny.' I took that as a backhanded compliment. he also knew when he told Betty on the phone 'I know what I'm doing' by calling to invite her. He also waited until he got his 39 episodes to extract his pound of flesh from Don.

On a separate note, in keeping with the big 'mirror' scene in Ep. 6, there were two scenes in this episode where Don's reflection seemed to be prominent. The first was the early scene when Don was looking at the new car in what appeared to be a auto dealership designed by 2001. The long range shots lingered a bit on Don and his reflection in the tile floor. The second scene was even more interesting. The scene when Jimmy confronted Don starts with Don with his back to the large mirror behind him, and one or two moments in the scene show Don and his reflection in the mirror. He certainly can't turn away from who is really is.

Can't wait until Sunday night, I'll be flying to San Francisco so I hope to I get to the hotel in time!

Oh, one other thing Dry Manhattan: That guy Patrick Fischler is a great actor. I mentioned before that he had a bit part in Mulholland Dr and registered a really strong impression -- every once in a while an actor in a bit part registers, like Philip Seymour Hoffman way back in 'Scent of a Woman.' I'm pleased to see him landing this plum role.

For some reason,all this talk about the Jimmy character gave me a flashback of my favorite soap character from long ago. Anybody remember Billy Clyde Tuggle from All My Children? Man that actor played a perfect dirt-a$$ low-life hick. That was back in the 70's.

....Laurie B. - OMG i haven't thought about that in years - I watched as a small kid. What happened to that actor I wonder? He did a great "redneck." And Palmer and Nina and Cliff, and the old Opal, who I think went away then came back? or something? and then was on Mama's Family. Wow. Thanks for a little trip in the Way-Back Machine! How funny.

...speaking of WAY back, how about Tara and Phil? remember Erica as a teenaged candy-striper, and later having the abortion, and sneaking "The Pill," and how controversial? she was just a kid when she started on that show.

Tara & Phil, sitting in a tree... I think I was about 13 yrs old in 1970, and OMG what a great romance that was. Who was Erica's first hubby? Was it Tara's brother?? Man, there's a lot I've forgotten. If you Google "Billy Clyde Tuggle" a bunch of links pop up.

Why are posters saying Don is gay, and now Jimmy is gay? There is no way they're gonna have more than one gay character storyline in one show, unless its a show about gay people. It would just take away the focus of Sal's story and not have any particular insights. I feel that Don's marriage is a facade for what he didn't have growing up and its just the thing to do. Jimmy, well, lets face it, he's no looker and he's holding on to what he's got, and he's not about to let Don, who seems to have everything including looks, get his wife.

Richard Hatch and the actress who played John Travolta's love interest in "Saturday Night Fever" were the orignal Tara and Phil I believe. I was six in 1970, but I can still hear the theme music and see that opening with the album being opened by the hand--my mom had it on when we came home from school.

I tried to start my own thread but to no avail. I was going to name it "Ouch, Couch." Have you noticed how many times couches appear as minor comic characters in different episodes:

Peggy's brother-in-law on his couch
Sal's mom on couch
Bobbie on Peggy's couch
Joan's roommate and one night stand on couch
Don and Rachel on her couch
Don, Midge, and friends on probably a Castro convertible pull out couch
Harry on office couch
Peggy and Pete on another office couch
Probably Roger and Twins on another office couch
Sally conked out on another office couch
Mona and family on hospital couch (I think)
Bertram Cooper spouting philosophy on couch ( I think)

Okay, I grasping at straws now. I'm sure there are others. Anyone? Or have I finally lost my mind.

when was mcdonalds introduced into the world

It's a couch! I don't see any insight into this one. Where else would people sit? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement about "comic characters?" That's to say that any object that appears in the same room with people means something like a lamp, or picture.

....hi penultimate - try hitting "refresh" on your browser after you surf to the "talk" page .... for some reason, the title and body fields don't appear on my monitor until i do that. hope it helps.

.....well, it's either the couch, or everyone standing around all day like they do on the soaps.

those people never sit down, sleep in full makeup, are never seen coming out of a bathroom, and clearly do not have jobs.

you forgot betty on Dr. Wayne's couch, and the couch donald draper sits on in the season 1 promotionals....

the one of him silhouetted from behind, sitting at the end of a couch, with his arm draped along the back, holding a cigarette....

....D'Oh!

Kind of like the one plastered all over every single page on this site. That one.

Great episode but, did anyone else miss Pete? lolz i know he's a skeez but i love him anyway

Penultimate. I also noticed all the times couches were part of the plot but was afraid to post because I thought people would think I was stretching it. In the 40's through the 60's, houses and bedrooms were much smaller, so "extra" family members or visitors often slept on the couch. However, I am surprised they haven't shown convertible beds, particularly Castro, that were popular in those days. Also, as is now, most Manhattan apartments were one bedroom.
Also most people, even upper middle class, had one car, even more so in NYC, so furtive sex was often conducted on couches not in the back seats of cars shared by the family.
A Lief-motif in MM and in the Sopranos is the characters watching TV sitting or lying on sofas. You are what you watch.

Laurie B and all "All My Children" posters...never missed it in my teen years... in 1970 when it premiered, I was about the same age as "Erica" on the show and it was the first soap opera I think that had teenagers in it (as main characters) and so I promptly became hooked. I think Susan Lucci (Erica) once recited all her married names she'd had on the show on some talk show and there were about ten! I also loved ol' Billy Clyde...what a skuz. God, and the story of Nina and Cliff was soooo romantic...wasn't it great when they finally got married? Oh, and remember how old Phoebe was always accusing her husband, Dr. Tyler of having an affair with Mona (Erica's mom) his secretary? Fun trip down memory lane, Laurie B!

Hi Glamara! I've felt the same way you have. I also have posted my confusion about Betty's comment to Jimmy.
Where did the info. that Jimmy is Jewish come from?
Barrett is an Irish name as far as I know. maybe I missed something....

60sChild: In Three Sundays, Bobbie told Don that if not for her, the show called "Grin and Barrett" would've been called "Grin and Brownstein." So I figured Unfunny Jimmy changed surnames to sound less "ethnic."

Hi Visan! Thank you, I must have missed that.

60'schild: If you read back through these posts, there is a lot of discussion about "the Jewish question." The writers of the show use subtext, or nuances, to suggest different things---they don't spell them out. For example, many comedians of the day were Jewish, who had ALL taken different names: Buddy Hackett, Milton Berle, Jackie Mason, Don Rickles, Jerry Lewis, etc. etc. It was not at all uncommon for Jews to change their names in that era; it made it "easier" for them to avoid the inherent anti-Semitism.

The first season of the show dealt with the anti-Semitism in the ad agencies quite directly.

Would Tony Curtis have been as much of a heartthrob and as big in the moviews as Bernard Schwartz (his real name)?

A quiz: Can you match the names?
1) Joseph Levitch
2) Issur Danielovitch
3) Yacov Moshe Maza
4) Lyon Chaim Green
5) Betty Perske
6) Benjamin Kubelsky
7) Edward Heimberger
8) Tula Ellice Finklea

a) Lauren Bacall
b) Jack Benny
c) Jackie Mason
d) Kirk Douglas
e) Jerry Lewis
f) Cyd Charisse
g) Eddie Albert
h) Lorne Greene

Answers: 1 (e); 2 (d); 3 (c); 4 (h); 5 (a); 6 (b); 7 (g); 8 (f)

To the writers---Here are some possible dialogue changes so that everyone who watches the show can get the context:

Roger: "Hey, Don. Let's hire that Jewish comedian, Jimmy Barrett, for the new Utz commercial."

Don: "Yeah, Rog. I know we'd never hire a Jew to work at Sterling Cooper, but a comedian? They're all Jews!"

Roger: "Didja know he changed his name from Brownstein? Does he think he's fooling anybody?"

Don: "Not likely." *Don lowers head and stares at his desk* "But, you know...I find Jewish women strangely compelling."

.....Femme 1 - great work. I knew some of those but still had a couple surprises. And your dialogue was very funny.

If you mention all of this, you can't really leave out that it was post-McCarthy-era paranoia (as well as post-war), which might have heightened not only so many people changing their names but also the extra paranoia all around by just about every interest group out there, not just Jews.

By the way, Sheila is coming back, which puts a whole new spin on Paul for me now (there is a person in there!), and also proves Joan wasn't necessarily on the mark. I love when nay-sayers are proven wrong.

Sorry for the off-topic.

okay I don't get the jewish thing what is the big deal and I know about the holocaust but why during the 50s 60s were they not accepted in society and why are they so rich now and own manhattan why did the twin towers get blown to bits
a lot of whys sorry have been in the wine (wolf blass shiraz cabernet sauvignon I highly recommend) am waiting here in toronto for the remnants of hurricane Ike to pass by and just had a steak dinner but that is a rare occasion usually only have non meat stuff lol gotta keep the vegetarians happy

Dry Manhattan: I'm thrilled Sheila's coming back too!

I've always argued that Joan was a jerk! And even if Paul was a phoney, with the ascot, that doesn't mean his feelings for Sheila were not genuine.

Also, if this season's about the Mad Women, the story about a young black woman, Sheila, navigating a world before the Civil Rights Acts and Voting Rights Act is imperative, because black women's stories ARE women's stories!

femme 1,

i got them all right! i almost fell out of my chair.

wow. yay me. ok i'm done now.

: )

....Viewing the weekly insider interviews, especially with Matt Weiner, answers a lot of questions....

One of the strong Matthew Weiner tenets of this entire series is the verity that people, by their nature, are always trying to box and buttonhole and label each other, as either good or bad, good enough or not, whatever.

His position is that there are no absolutes and is a function of being human. Some days we are demons, some days angels. Lots of days we all walk a tightrope of some kind. Many days we are giant geeks mascarading as success stories.

Some episodes I feel Matt Weiner challenging us to see beyond what we already know and believe. That's what makes it fun.

Mad Men is definitely "like a box of chocolates!"

Other things that sort of vanished and we've not seen them since Season One:

Polly
That neighbor kid (forgot his name)
Midge
Betty's shrink

what is sds?

I agree that when Betty referred to "you people" being disgusting, she meant comedians/celebrities... remember on the phone she told Jimmy, "Celebrities make me shy." And then she commented on the celebrities, when they first walked into the Stork Club. I really didn't get the impression that ethnicity had anything to do with it.
And I think Jimmy knew Bobbie was sleeping with Don--- obviously he knew she boinked around quite a bit since he admitted it to Don-- it seems clear that it was his personal envy and hatred of Don that made him lash out. "I've been standing behind those guys all my life..." He was just so disgusted and bitter that handsome Don, rich and successful with a stunningly beautiful wife, just couldn't keep his hands off Jimmy's OWN wife.
Jimmy's willing to ignore her screwing around, but doing it with Don really pissed him off because Don is everything that Jimmy isn't. And Jimmy is one of the few people who sees through Don's immaculate facade--- probably because Jimmy, too, scratched his way up from the dirt.

I see a recurring theme, of marriages born of convenience. Jimmy/Bobbie, Sal/Kitty, Pete/whatshername.
LOVED the whole storyline with Sal. Didn't it remind anyone of the Dennis Quaid character in "Far From Heaven"??

And it really did tickle me when they had Don and Betty throwing the trash all over the park. My teenage son, watching with me, immediately said, "That's littering! It's wrong!" which reminded me how things have changed. when I was little, it just wasn't that big a deal. Littering didn't come to the forefront of American consciousness until the "crying Indian" campaign which was, what, about 1970? We honestly forget that it was a different world in 1962.

****QUESTION! Has anyone noticed that although Betty really is ice-cold toward her kids, she's nicer to the little girl than to the boy? She honestly seems to loathe that cute little boy. Is she something of a man-hater?????

And what's all this about her barfing because she's pregnant? I don't think they meant to convey that. I think some folks on this blog are "reaching"! She'd already told Jimmy she had too much to drink, and then his ugly confrontation upset her. (And remember, he made her drink another one. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.) She looked nauseated when she joined Don at the club getting ready to leave. I think it was just priceless that she hurled all over the brand-new Cadillac. Truly funny. So much for that new-car smell! LOL.

Hello -
Just like to offer the suggestion that Jimmy's response to Don may be far simpler than some have suggested. Jimmy went for the jugular ONLY after Don humiliated Bobbie. If you like, you can read it as him defending her honor - not his honor. Based on some of the discussion of Sal, this may be support for him being gay.
Oh- and I remember my mom throwing trash out the car window while driving down the highway - and that was into the early 70's. I think we're meant to view the garbage thematically, not as a statement about public hygiene...
Happy Trails!

I think many people littered back in the 60's due to the containers not being plastic (paper,glass, cardboard, etc). They threw them out on the road expecting them to biodegrade/decay with the weather and elements. Today we have so much of our disposables that are plastic and will never decay. That's when littering started becoming a problem. Even McDonald's started out using paper to wrap their hamburgers in the early years. Then they went to styrofoam which is not biodegradable. Now they are back to using paper again. It's nice to know we are learning from our mistakes...maybe?

Finally these guys are gonna get what's coming to them!! Great series!! Now Betty needs to get her back blown out by one of Don's competitors!!! Pete needs to find out about his son!! ans Salvatore needs to come out of the closet!!!

By kikkoman on September 13, 2008 10:48 PM
what is sds

Students for A Democratic Society. It's a radical group. (today we'd call them terrorists)

Google it; you'll get more information.

There were a great many of these radical groups in the mid and late Sixties and well into the Seventies.

MadMenSuz:
I agree. We haven't seen Glenn (played by M. Weiner's son) this season That said, we haven't seen his mother, Helen either.

Likewise we haven't seen Polly, the Draper dog either although we did hear Sally call to her when she got home.

Dry Manhattan/Visan:
That Sheila is going to be in an upcoming show means only that. When Sally came to the office on Palm Sunday, she noticed the picture of Sheila on Paul's desk. What's the possibility of her telling Paul he's going to be a daddy?