Great use of the Decemberists. The Infanta is the eldest daughter of the ruling monarch of Spain, but she is not heir to the throne—in the montage, none of the women shown had any control over their respective empires.

Was it me or was this epi really confusing? I gotta watch it again - what the hell were Bobbie and Don talking about in bed - I couldn't here them And what happened to Don at the end - does he have some sort of mental disability or something? I am not saying that to be sarcastic, seriously. WTF was that end scene.

Letting the dog go (sad) and Rumson hit Peggy in the butt!!! LUV IT

The ending totally freaked me out.

WHAT WAS THAT?

Peggy is heading down a very dangerous path - I understand she wants to be one of the guys and wants respect but hanging out with them after work in a strip club is NOT the way to go. It's gonna blow up back in her face and back fire

ENDING xplanation - anyone?

Interesting to see Duck's family life. I can't help thinking it's a preview of the Draper family circa 1970.

I think that Don has fleeting moments of clarity and the ending scene was just that. He is a hero in his daughter's eyes, maybe reality hit him when she came into the bathroom, and then he has the opportunity to reallllly look at himself....or maybe he really doesn't have high blood pressure but syphilis or some other STI.

Again - really good stuff - but they went too far in putting the dog out!

Was anyone else upset about Chauncey? That bothered me more than Don's twisted S&M revenge (who set this guy's moral compass?) or poor Peggy forcing herself to watch T&A to stay relevant at the office.

I think the scene at the banquet was because he was embarrassed to stand up with those vets because he was a chicken and a fraud during his war service- the thing with the daughter was a wtf moment - and what did he discuss with Bobbie in bed??????!~!!!!

Again - really good stuff - but they went too far in putting the dog out!

I think Peggy going to the strip club was okay...but she could have been more assertive and not play into the coquettish plaything by sitting on the Playtex boss' lap. That part will not serve her well. She doesn't necessarily need to change her wardrobe as Joan suggested; I think her power is really in her attitude not her outfit. (However I do personally believe that Peg's hair and wardrobe are a bit childish looking.) She's smarter than most of the men she works with/for. The sooner she realizes the power in that there will be no stopping her.

I don't feel sorry for Peggy!!!!! Bad judgement in her part going!

What did Bobbie and Don talk about in bed??????

Vgrace. I think you're right. I think it's tied in with his parting shot to Bobbie, "I told you to quit talking", and then his little girl says "I'm not going to talk, Daddy". She brought back something he doesn't want to think about.

Also, both Pete and Don looking in mirror after cheating? Interesting.

Thought it was interesting that they specifically mentioned Jimmy Barrett was at the KY Beverly Hills Supper Club. It burned down in the 70's and killed many people.

Also -- anyone notice Pete grilling Peggy about where she lives now? I think he wants to visit her again.

As far as the last scene with Don in the bathroom, did anyone else notice how the mirror reflected two Don's, just like the Playtex pitch? Maybe it was to symbolize his two sides? Also, notice that he was set off when his daughter said she wouldn't talk...remember his admonition to Bobbie not to talk?

Don is being talked about around town as, basically, a man whore. His daughter mentioning "not talking" brought back the conversation with Bobbie. Perhaps he saw his mother in the mirror. He certainly didn't see the adored Daddy that his daughter saw. He couldn't bear it, and sent her away.

Lorantscan: there is an encore episode playing right now. You can catch it. But here is the synopsis: Bobbie mentioned that Don was living up to his reputation (as an awesome lover). He asked her if she had been talking about him. She replied that other girls talked about him and his prowess. She said that she has heard it from (she names some gal over at Random House). Don claims to not know who that is. Bobbie brushes it off and basically behaves as though Don should take it all as a compliment because this is not a "maiden voyage" for either of them; and is he upset that people will think he is just like her...(or something like that).

To that degree???

The daughter said the same thing he'd just said he wanted from Bobbie...."Daddy I won't talk".....Don's compartmentalized life is sometimes difficult for him to deal with, especially when it comes from the mouth of innocent babes...and reality hits him smack in the face via a clear mirror.....he was kinda overwhelmed with it all.

After all he judged Bobbie as a sleaze, and punished her when she inferred he was the same. Don has a puritanical side that doesn't jive with party down Don. The dichotomy is hitting him in the face.

JMHO

I loved the mirrors and reflections throughout.

Wild episode! I didn't think Peggy would take Joan's advice, boy, she certainly did!

Hi lorantscan! I was puzzled by the ending too. Then I thought, Don told Bobbi not to talk during their scene, she did and it "cut" him somehow, his ego or something in his psyche.
then in the next scene Sally says "I won't talk Daddy, so you won't cut yourself", and he freaks out!

I'm gonna have to get some sleep, rewatch, and think about this one!!

Duck gave me the impression of a man considering suicide; also, Peggy looked really good at the end, but I agree with a previous poster that she is not doing herself any favors with 'the big boys' sitting on the guys lap, etc.

Like you analysis Dixiegirl but something is not jivving with me here

I also think Don's feeling unworthy of his daughter's adoration. She literally looks up to him - as a war hero, cheering at the club, and while he's shaving.

I worked at Ogilvy & Mather for 20 years, now The Ogilvy Group.

I loved Mad Men........

As an Animal Advocate with someone I consider my daughter, My baby Chloe..... I STRONGLY object to how "Chauncey" was treated in tonite's episode

Shame on you Mr.Weiner! I've been in advertising since I was 22 = I can't believe you portrayed an animal like this. I'm very disappointed & won't watch the show again - although I did relate & love it until now. Your loss.

Don is unraveling. He wants to be the good family man, but he can't. He has to be the rough guy, who doesn't fit in at the country club. He has two identities and they are fighting it out. Peggy seems to want a new identity.

Rewatching it now - but yeah I can catch the 2 Don theory and him not being liked to being thought of as a whore like his mother.

Yes, good point on the two sides theme. It holds true for everyone on the show.

I worked @ Ogilvy & Mather for 25 years - your poor use of Chauncy (the dog) has lost one viewer. I KNOW what advertising is about - you want ratings -I loved the show but you've lost me

Bobbie and Don were talking about another woman that he slept with that Bobbie knows. This other woman kinda recommended him to Bobbie. He was upset that women he's slept with are talking about him. He realized he wasn't the one in control.

I agree, the dog scene broke my heart!!! I am a big time dog lover, don't mess with the dogs!!!

Before that awful scene where Duck put the dog out. did anyone else think it was funny that Duck acted like he had a drinking problem, and the dog knew it?!

Likes others have said...

His daughter said she will not talk and it made him feel guilty. I also thought the two mirrors could have symbolized the double life Don leads.

Peggy does not have anyone to really turn to for advice because there are no other women in her shoes. The closest thing to a peer that she had was when Bobbie was her houseguest last week and that is somewhat of a stretch. She wants to fit in with the guys but will continue to make mistakes because she has noone to emulate. Even Joan could only offer fashion advice.

I was also troubled by Chauncey's dismissal. I guess it shows that Duck is on his way down the tubes. He threw out the only being that he had any bond/affection for at this point in his life. Chauncey was his conscience.

All jmho, of course.

Duck sending Chauncey into the streets of NY was awful! Mark Moses seems to be typecast as men with character flaws.

Likes others have said...

His daughter said she will not talk and it made him feel guilty. I also thought the two mirrors could have symbolized the double life Don leads.

Peggy does not have anyone to really turn to for advice because there are no other women in her shoes. The closest thing to a peer that she had was when Bobbie was her houseguest last week and that is somewhat of a stretch. She wants to fit in with the guys but will continue to make mistakes because she has noone to emulate. Even Joan could only offer fashion advice.

I was also troubled by Chauncey's dismissal. I guess it shows that Duck is on his way down the tubes. He threw out the only being that he had any bond/affection for at this point in his life. Chauncey was his conscience.

All jmho, of course.

There were several scenes that led up to the last one..all with Don seeing himself for who he has become and not liking what he sees. At the bathroom mirror he realized he isn't a man who is worthy of Sally's admiration (he felt the same at her applause at the CClub). He seems to melt from her look, from the family at the table, he wants to be that type of father/husband. but, he sees the truth in the mirror and knows he isn't. We see his self hatred.

Dalva, lorantscan, Pete's blue pajamas,

Yes, I, too, was upset about Chauncey. There are lots of other ways to show us that Duck is a creep. Most dogs would have sat patiently at the door waiting to be let in again, but Chauncey walked away with dignity. Hope he finds a good home. I never liked Duck much, but now I hate him. The MM people have made their point, but I wish they had done it another way.

"Yes, Don - you ARE a man-whore."

Did he think that would never come back to bite him in the ass? I agree that he probably flashed back to being called "whore-child" in his youth. This is the first episode to really mention Bobbie's age relative to Don's - why did it never cross his mind that this woman is old enough to have college-aged children?

And Peggy - va-va-VOOM! I was cheering for her when she showed up at that strip club. And for the fact that it made Pete very mad to see her sitting on another man's lap. Can't say that I agree that sitting on a client's lap is the best way to get ahead professionally, but then again, she took lessons from Bobbie Barrett!

Why would Peggy sit on the client's lap? She took Joan's advice to dress more attractively and she turned into a sex kitten? That was out of character for her.

crm - I agree maybe she uncovered something about him and Petes blue pajamas - I think he may feel unworthy of his daughters admiration - he was looking at her when they were all applauding the vets

Rewatching it now

It was also interesting how Don was so offended by Betty's two piece in light of his behavior with Bobbie and the rest...

Don so wants to be the good husband/father but knows that he isn't because of his double life.

He is such a fascinating character (as they all are, really) and JH is an unbelievable actor.

sorry for the double post before...hope it doesn't happen again here.

I'm very upset about Chauncey.....

I worked @ Ogilvy & Mather (now the Ogilvy Group) for 20 years I know about copy& presenting a good product.\ I loved this show & related to it until tonite's epsode....... but,,,,,,,

I don't like the treatment of the dog = Rethink Mr. Weiner or you'll lose viewers,

All I know is that Duck better have a "Holly Golightly" moment and go find Chauncy!! I won't be able to sleep thinking about that beautiful dog alone on the streets of New York, even if it is just a story!!

I was happy to hear more history in tonight's episode.

That's the last straw! I'm done with this show! I didn't watch last season but got pulled in by all the hype. I got read about everything that happened last season and started watching. Maybe it's me....why would any woman want to watch a show where women are barely treated like human beings. They are there to be looked at and have sex with but that's about it. There are still men that feel this way! Then put cruelty to animals in the mix and I'm gone! I deleted the episode as soon as the alcoholic put the dog out so he wouldn't feel guilty about having a drink. My DVR will no longer record this show.

I love this show and many times will watch the encore presentation at 11:00. However, Duck abandoning his dog like that was so upsetting that I couldn't watch it again. It was just too real and I hated that they put something like that in a show that I like so much.

Just doin' my job, ma'am. lol

[quote] By lorantscan on August 31, 2008 11:22 PM
Like you analysis Dixiegirl but something is not jivving with me here[/quote]

Well this is unconscious behavior on Don's part..he has deep seated feelings about whores and (and I believe has a madonna/whore complex) ...Bobbie's comments brought the reality a bit too close to the surface, and then his daughter reinforced the reality. He's being overwhelmed with reality, which he prefers to keep in a neat box in under deep recesses.

Reality and unconscious drives rarely jive.

Duck is on a sinking ship...it's only a matter of time before he has to face the consequences of his alcoholism.

Wouldn't it be nice if Chauncey "adopted" Pete and Trudy? I couldn't believe Duck would let that beautiful, sweet dog go. How heartbreaking.

chelliejean,

you are right that the women are treated hideously on mad men. i watch this show like a history lesson. i wasn't born until a few years after this all took place and i now have a better understanding of what ignited the women's movement.

yes, some women are still treated poorly at work but i have never seen anything like what happens on mad men.

i asked my mother and other women who worked during that time period and they said the sexist behavior was pretty outrageous.

i don't feel that mad men is glorifying the sexist behaviors at all.

but i can understand how it would upset you and not make you watch.

I hate to sound crass, and certainly I was struck when Duck let Chauncey go, I get the symbolism, and I do agree it was a bit much to do to the poor dog. However, some of you are acting as though he slaughtered the animal in front of our very eyes. He let the dog out of the building. Someone else will find the dog, take it home and treat it well. Someone will love the dog. Some of you will boo me but I really don't think it was so cruel as to delete or stop watching the show. The animal was not harmed. It certainly isn't any more cruel than what Don does to his wife on a daily basis.

I think Duck should have given the dog to Pete. Seeing the dog left at the door broke my heart.

I'm still watching Ep 6 for the 2nd time and haven't done my complete review yet. HOWEVER, it seems clear to me the theme tonight is the light and dark sides of each of us. I hated the dog scene, but being both the daughter and ex wife of an alcoholic, it makes a statement about how powerful the additiction can be and what you will do. I hated the scene but was glad that we didn't hear brakes squealing and horrified yelping. There's a lot of symbolism to the dog that I haven't figured out yet.

I think we're going to find out that Don did time in a mental institution, similar to Peggy. Sally said she wouldn't talk so he wouldn't cut himself and that's what did him in. Did he try to commit suicide before?

The treatment of women on this show does bother me, too. I often have to chuckle at it because I cannot believe that men and women behaved that way.When my boyfriend chuckles at the same parts I wonder whether he is chuckling because he thinks what the men say and do are funny and he "gets it" because he is a man, or is he chuckling because he find it so ridiculous, as I do. I haven't asked him yet because I think he is going to say that he laughs because he is one of the guys.
I have asked my grandmother, mother, and other older women and they agree that sexual harrassment and attitudes towards women really were out of control even into the 1980s.

Very nice touch about Pete and his wife spending time in the summer at Point-O-Woods.
One can only imagine how stuffy it was in 1962. Really perfect.

vgrace,

no boos here. i am a major animal lover and i thought it was sad/surprising when he let chauncey go but i was more struck by what it said about duck.

to me, it showed that chauncey was better off finding a new family than with him.

unless they played a screeching wheel/thud sound, i wasn't offended. i assume the dog will be fine even though it is obviously not appropriate to abandon a dog. just as it is not appropriate to screw random women when you are married.

those who are too offended won't watch and that is their right. to each his own.

jhmo.

I'm glad I got eyeballs! Damn! Don Draper looked mega-watt hot tonight! Turns out his whore reputation precedes (sp?) him! Guess he has some Pope/whore complex!

And what was this new info on some lady he bedded who worked at Random House? Another sultry brunette, I bet!

Don Draper is such a slut! Loves it!

Don told peggy she was an Irene Dunn while Cosgrove said she was Gertrude Stein. Dunn was a beautiful, accomplised film actress (Five Academy Award Noms) While Stein, from what I can gather, was a rather homely writer and artist and early femisnist who had a questionable sexual status.

Some reading pasted below:

Stein is the author of one of the earliest coming out stories, Q.E.D. (published in 1950 as Things as They Are), written in 1903 and suppressed by the author. The story, written during travels after dropping out, is based on a love triangle she joined while studying at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. The triangle was complicated in that Stein was less experienced with the closeted social dynamics of romantic friendship as well as her own sexuality and any moral dilemmas regarding it. Stein maintained at the time that she detested "passion in its many disguised forms". The relationships of Stein's acquaintances Mabel Haynes and Grace Lounsbury ended as Haynes started one with Mary Bookstaver (also known as May Bookstaver). Stein fell in love with Bookstaver but was unsuccessful in advancing their relationship. Bookstaver, Haynes, and Lounsbury all later married men. (Blackmer 1995, p.681-686)

Her growing awareness of her sexuality began to interfere with the bourgeois values implicit in her medical studies[citation needed] and would have put her at odds with contemporary feminist theory and opinion[citation needed], and Q.E.D. may have assisted her with understanding her scholarly and romantic failure. However, Stein began to accept and define her masculinity through the ideas of Otto Weininger's Sex and Character (1906). Weininger, though Jewish by birth, considered Jewish men effeminate and women as incapable of selfhood and genius, except for female homosexuals who may approximate masculinity. (ibid)

More positive affirmations of Stein's sexuality and gender began with her relationship with Toklas. Ernest Hemingway describes how Alice was Gertrude's "wife" in that Stein rarely addressed his (Hemingway's) wife, and he treated Alice the same, leaving the two "wives" to chat. Alice was 4'11" tall, and Gertrude was 5'1" (Grahn 1989).

I guess the men have to be sure of themselves so they make that reference to Peggy's sexuality by comparing her to this Stein - her going to that strip club was disasterous for her. Bobbie told her to neveer forget she was a woman and she did by showing up there

Poor Chauncey!!!! Like most people I was bummed about Duck putting him out on the street! Chauncey made him self conscience when he thought about drinking, but bummer! Remember when he commented to Pete about dogs not having a problem communicating? I didn't see that coming.

Aside of the dog, this episode has a lot to do with images of women and their roles, etc. Don even gave Betty the right act for wanting to wear a cute bikini to the pool. She's a mom, an angel to Don. I guess he doesn't want anyone else to see she can be sexy too. Don doesn't want anyone to see his little Betty as a MILF!

But ladies, apparently the talk around town is that Don is a DILF! (I hope you get that by substituting the "D" for Dad I'd Like to f...) I'll have to say he looked pretty hot in the first bedroom scene w/ Bobbie. He never looked so sexy in the sheets with them pulled just low enough on his waist...WOW! Then he had to get a little S&M freaky there the next time! Donny you bad boy, you! Get it together. You think the ladies aren't going to talk about your hot self? PA-LEASE! You're so yummy why wouldn't they talk?
Okay though, the ending. Don's not wanting to even look himself in the mirror. His daughter saying,"Don't worry Daddy, I won't talk. I wouldn't want you to cut yourself." OUCH! Well you just did kid!

Also, its about time Peggy glammed up a bit. She's still so lost though. She's looked like a high schooler minus the bobbie socks and saddle shoes up until now! I'm wondering how her little show at the club will play out in the eyes of the guys....

Very interesting....

Oh = ENUF WITH THE DOG - it's a DOG!!!!! And if you can not stomach the treatment of women - the DON'T Watch. Yes women were treated like that and some still are but thats LIFE- PC gone MAD!

Instead of whing about the dog and the treatment of women does anyone have anything to add to my observation of how Don said Peggy was an Irene Dunn and Cosgrove said she was a Gertrude Stein?

Lorantscan: Well....I think the boys in the office said that Peggy was like Gertrude Stein because they see her as a prude, or more asexual. They've joked about that before. (Although Cosgrove did get sucker punched by Pete for smack talking Pegs.) I think that Don wanted to not only make her feel better-- feel more attractive to men-- but to give her some hope that she has some kind of classic beauty and that while she might seem/be an "ugly duckling" (for lack of a better phrase) now, she will become/is becoming a beautiful swan. Even though she is an independent woman she still wants to be attractive to and have the approval of men!

Pegs needs to get a backbone. She could have easily come up with a slam against each one of those boys in that office.

Don-

Appearances are VERY important to him, appearing to work when he is not, Betty and not wearing the bikini, Betty talking to the guy from the stables....

Yet- when he escapes from this facade -there appears to be no known consequences or feeling on his part, once again the numbness he feels.

He is totally a Jekyll and Hyde of sorts. Almost a sociopath in a sense. He says and does what is expected of him, but behind the scenes, doesn't really feel that way.

Just really sad that it all revolves around his sexual escapades and need to control his wife he views as a possession.

I would like to see this bi-polar personality explored more from an intellectual standpoint, instead of just his ego and libido.

About Duck and the dog. I think the dog symbolizes his family life, his former married life. And after learning that his ex-wife is remarrying, he feel spurned by the return of the dog because the new husband is allergic. So he's depressed and wants to drink but because the dog symbolizes his family life and as someone else said, his conscience, he lets the dog go. Yes, it's a cruel thing to do, but this is a fictional TV show and a depiction of life as it was in a specific era. Why be any more upset with how Duck treated the dog than how women, Jews and anyone who isn't white is treated? In actuality, the dog wasn't hurt. There was a handler right outside camera view waiting to reward the dog for a job well done. How is that cruelty unless you oppose all use of animals in entertainment?

I think the entire episode was about the "madonna-whore" view of women by men. The bra campaign, Peggy's treatment and her response to it (she is trying many different ways to assert herself), and Don's reaction to Bobbie as well as his treatment of Betty.

I love this show and I'm fascinated watching Peggy's progress.

Lorantscan-
Trust me there will be more talk about the dog. People just can't help it. It says more about ourselves then anything else. We tolerate violence of all kinds against people as a part of any plot, but people just can't handle being mean to animals. I just had to say something myself, because I reacted by saying,"What the f... are you doing? Not your dog! He loves you man!" Can't help it. It just got to me.

I think Don is going to have problems at work. I have worked in advertising on both the agency and client side. I fact like other posters, I worked at Ogilvy and Mather (in the late 60's.)
When a client asks for new creative and dismisses it that quickly, there is a problem. Don is deluding himself if he thinks he can keep the new creative on the shelf till a later time. Also, he blames Duck for not selling his ideas to clients. Maybe the problem is partially with the creative.

Vgrace,
as I am somewhat of the age of your mother, i will tell you yes, sexist behavior actually went on into the 60's, 70's......and still believe that it has gotten worse not better now....
at least via TV....think about it....do you really believe that men now don't think like men in the 60's?
TV has countered the "feminist" era,,,by pushing "sexual harassment" into everyday commercials, the so called "reality shows",,etc

think about it....I like this show, because it highlights what women have to deal with....either then or now....perhaps young women need to be educated......

YES, YES vgrace - Peggy needs a backbone that's it!!!! I faced sexism and the snide remarks and the stares while working the 80 and early 90's and I ALWAYS had a come back to keep them all on their toes and THATS why I was so well respected in my profession. She needs to be more like Joan - who always has a remark or come back - Joan is better at it but she doesn't want Peggy's job!

Hold on a second... We watch: 1. Don/Dick steal the identity of a man whose face and body were immolated because of his incompetence 2. Don basically have sex with any woman who is willing to play into his pathological psycho-sexual dysfunction. 2. His psychologically damaged half-brother hang himself in his lonely flop-house room because of Don’s refusal to acknowledge him because it will blow Don’s ruse. 3. Peggy birth a child whom she refuses to acknowledge during pregnancy and afterward.

Yet, dumb-ass Duck cuts a dog loose on the streets of NYC, and this is the “scene” that causes some viewers to now lock out AMC from their cable remote at 10 pm on Sundays?!

You’ve got to be kidding… Like “the Sopranos”, this is study of the interactions between critically flawed, yet very “human” people. There are no heroes or role models here. Why were you watching this show to begin with?

vgrace - Joan told her "You in their country - learn to speak the language"

Cindy-Condescending much? Yes, we understand it's a tv show and the dog wasn't really sent out into the streets. We understand Duck is a fictitious character. We're discussing the show which we understand isn't real life. Jeez.

60schild: yeah you have some good points about sex and women in today's world. I don't totally disagree with you. The image of women on television today certainly promotes girls and women as sexual toys who will do anything to be with a man. I find that sad, too. I certainly believe that sexual harrassment exists today but I have never personally experienced it. (And I don't look like a Gertrude Stein--haha!) Although we do kind of have a "good-ole-boy" network at work....

Even today plenty of women allow themselves to be demeaned and cheated on. Personally, I do not allow myself to be treated in such a manner by anyone. But I think that I was lucky enough to have some wonderful strong female role models. And, I am financially independent (not wealthy--although I wish!) so I don't need to tolerate certain things in order to live my life.

Lorantscan: Yeah I think Peggy is making some mistakes with idiomatic expression in this new language of businessmen. She has to figure out how to use the new language to make it work for her. (I'm a language teacher...) All the nuances and double entendres of language that she could make work for her. She'll get it.

I am so upset with the writers' decision to turn Chauncey out onto the streets of Manhattan that I seriously have to think about this show. I've watched it from the beginning, but this really upset me.

Yes, I understand the plot point about Chauncey. He was Duck's mirror and it underscored his torment, blah, blah, blah.

Nacystowe, I think you are misinterpreting the major theme, which seems to be about self-image v. the image that others hold of us.

Pete bedded that girl for validation - tells his brother hopw important he is while Peggy and Duck dismiss him

Seems next week Joanie gets jealous about something between Jane and Roger

I think Don's daughter saying "I won't talk" (just like Bobbie said before he tied her up) triggered something in him.

What was Bobbi referring to when she mentioned a female name and Random House? I wonder what skeleton of Don's that she has uncovered? She's pretty slick so it would be of no surprise if she has done some snooping to dig up dirt on him. Whatever it is, he was spooked and very defensive.

It was interesting to see the ad campaign theme of one person having two sides tie-in to several of the characters and their apparent ability to display two sides.

This episode left me with questions but overall I liked it. It had a hint of the Season 1 spice.

Hello everyone,
I thought this was a great episode all around. I realize this is an ensemble show, but I think it's most fascinating when the centerpiece is dissecting Don's irreconcilable image/self. And I loved the comments thus far. I wasn't familiar with the opening song, so thanks for the head's up.

A few things struck me:
--Don's Madonna-Whore complex runs pretty deep. Recall that he couldn't perform with Betty on Valentine's Day when she was in her lingerie, then this episode he cruelly (incredibly so) tells Betty she looks desperate because she's wearing a bikini. Also, he is completely unperturbed by the fact that Bobbie is married, but her children disclosure unsettled him. Apt that this episode delves into the Jackie/Marilyn duality through advertising pitch while it also burrows more into Don's Madonna/Whore frame of mind. Also, nice irony that Don ends up being the one objectified.
--The ending with his daughter, as well as the beginning during the war vet tribute, is devastating. It is the greatest feeling in the world to have your children look up to you -- and that little actress does a great job lionizing him -- but if you know it's undeserved, you loathe yourself. From whore's son to whore, he seemed to be thinking. Jon Hamm's acting at the end in the mirror is so good; he's up there with William Hurt in conveying internal anguish.
-- The scene with Peggy in the burlesque bar just preceding it was fascinating and once again a nice parallel with her and Don. While acknowledging the other commenters who say that behavior was beneath her (I agree to an extent), I actually watched the scene and thought that maybe she was reconciling her two selves pretty nicely -- allowing herself to be with the boys to get ahead (unlike earlier, when she turned down Ken's offer to come into the auditions). But the look she exchanges with Pete breaks up any good feelings. She looks shamed by him, almost as much as Don when he looks in the mirror. Pete's obviously got some issues, too -- anyone else taken aback by how he smiled when he looked in the mirror after his tryst? Most people wouldn't smile when they come home from an affair and catch themselves in the mirror, yet he does! (also re:Peggy, sort of funny that Don mentions Irene Dunne with Peggy; perhaps her best known role was 'I Remember Mama.' Maybe an in-joke?)
--Duck & the Dog: With due respect to the dog lovers out there -- and it was painful -- I think it was in keeping with the character who's about to go on a potentially suicidal bender. Having been born in 1971, I also remember in the '70s people leaving family dogs on the side of the road; it's horrible, but true to the times -- I don't think the show will inspire any animal cruelty, just like Mississippi Burning wouldn't inspire racism. I don't want to invoke the enmity of dog lovers, so please don't misunderstand this comment, but I thought Duck was more human in this episode than any previous one. I can't imagine how hard it is to hear that your wife (who he clearly still loves) is remarrying, while he's losing his kids, his job is melting down and the sauce is calling to him.

Thanks madshurb, I signed up just to ask what was that amazing song played at the begging of the epi. Went and downloaded it listened to it in it's entireity and read the lyrics thanks for putting it in context.

I breathed a sigh of relief many times during this episode. Thankfully, Don finally saw what a screwed up old whore Bobbie is (for a smart man it sure took him a long time to figure that one out!) Peggy finally came out of her shell and showed what a good looker she can really be. This is the 1960's and if you are going to play in the same game with the big boys you gotta be as brazen as they are and not play the part of a Debbie Reynolds girl next door. Joan's advice to Peggy was not that far off the mark for the 1960's and it will serve Peggy well. It was also good to see Pete upset with Peggy as he only gets upset with her when he feels he can't control her. He is threatened by her sexuality because he knows it is a factor in his relationship with her that he cannot control. Now, about the dog:; I am not an animal lover at all and even I felt very sad about this scene but it served a purpose. It is a vivid picture of how an alcoholic will turn his back on the thing he loves most in the world in order to fuel his addiction. He abandoned his dog in a manner in which many people turn their backs on their children and families when they have to make a choice between the things they love and their addictions. Remember, it was just a dog playing a role in a film and not reality. But the real reality is the many people who have lost loved ones to drug and alcohol addictions and have been abandoned just as carelessly as Duck walked away from that dog. Don't sheild your eyes from that tragedy by avoiding the show. Watch it, feel the pain and learn from it.

OLD FASHIONED - right on target and you managed to get it all in one post. Looked up Irene Dunn and didn't come across that I Remember Mama

Pete is looking for validation and he sadly goes with this nobdy for it.

All men have a Madonna Whore Complez. Maidenform was an excellent title for this epi and the ad solidified it.

Also doesn't Joan looked more buttoned up on her dress and attire this season.. She found love - or so she says - but I think her true love is Roger.

Love this show as having come of age in the 1960's, but if anyone is listening, pantyhose came into existence the same year as "Laugh-In": 1967!!!
There's no way Peggy owned any in '62!!!

Love this show as having come of age in the 1960's, but if anyone is listening, pantyhose came into existence the same year as "Laugh-In": 1967!!!
There's no way Peggy owned any in '62!!!

Cocktail Script,
That was a harsh comment by Ken, but Ken seems to respect her most among the young turks. Perhaps he's treating her as an equal by mocking her as he does the others -- or a feeble attempt as might have happened when women began moving beyond the steno pool to equal jobs? Just a thought. Otherwise, it just seems cruel.
Sandy -- good observation. I wonder if that's more a reflection of '60s advertising, or of the Mad Men ethos about nothing beyond purely black or white? Come to think of it, Marilyn was in white a lot, as I recall from the old movies.
lorantscan -- thanks for the kind words. I agree that Joan still harbors something for Roger, or at least doesn't want to surrender what her queen bee status, and bedding Roger is an clear totem of that status.

Cocktail Script,
That was a harsh comment by Ken, but Ken seems to respect her most among the young turks. Perhaps he's treating her as an equal by mocking her as he does the others -- or a feeble attempt as might have happened when women began moving beyond the steno pool to equal jobs? Just a thought. Otherwise, it just seems cruel.
Sandy -- good observation. I wonder if that's more a reflection of '60s advertising, or of the Mad Men ethos about nothing beyond purely black or white? Come to think of it, Marilyn was in white a lot, as I recall from the old movies.
lorantscan -- thanks for the kind words. I agree that Joan still harbors something for Roger, or at least doesn't want to surrender what her queen bee status, and bedding Roger is an clear totem of that status.

Closing scene not so strange--every once in a while Don feels the 'duality' of his life--the one who seems destined for a meltdown is poor Duck! I remember sitting watching my Daddy shave--we weren't allowed to talk back then unless spoken to!
Control by the patriarch was undisputed in 1962.

Along with everyone else, I was upset about the dog, but would like to think that a dog-loving New Yorker took him in. Looks like Duck is on his way out a window.

Pete needs to leave Peggy alone.

Don didn't like his Maidenform image. Peggy's trying to find one, right now she's Playtex.

And as a woman I applauded the Playtex guys when they pointed out the complete obvious, in everyday life women like bras that are comfortable. We don't get bras because we necessarily want to come across as a whore or a saint. I'll put it this way, how would you men feel if you had to wear underwear that looked good but was uncomfortable as hell, in everyday life? I think, in this instance, Peggy won. The guys didn't get it.

I prefer Hanes in my daily life, without the underwire. That crap is uncomfortable.

Speaking of the "privileged" Infanta....Think about all the women whose personal goals and dreams were snuffed out due to racism, sexism and classism. And "looks-ism," in many cases.

So the "Infanta" can cry me a river!

Chauncey being put out on the street was a very disturbing scene. I hated it. I think Duck is suicidal.

I thought that the Gertrude Stein remark was harsh. Would a man really say something like that to a woman at work?

Anyone else doing the math out there. Just how old is Bobbie?
She has a daughter in college. How old is Don?

Maidenform is a great title, not only is it a product name but as a reference to the female body. It could also mean a first attempt at something.

Don by day and Don by night - his two sides, just like their ad campaign for Playtex. The two mirror reflections say it all.

I absolutely loved the new ad campaign using the Jackie and Marilyn type gals. However, I think of white for day and black for night, and I was surprised that they used black on "pure" Jackie and white on "naughty" Marilyn. The contrast between bra and hair would have been better, too. Did anybody else notice this?

I was devastated about Chauncey. Duck, Don and Pete are all smoking time bombs.

Love the show!!

Back when TV actually had an "end of the broadcast day" stations often aired this as their sign-off message just before the Star Spangled Banner... they went to "snow."

High Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long delirious, burning blue,
I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untresspassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

Pilot Officer Gillespie Magee
No 412 squadron, RCAF
Killed 11 December 1941

I would imagine that while Peter and his new friend continued their embrace, they heard the national anthem and the hiss of white noise.

I loved the narration from the TV during Pete's sofa "audition" of the blonde, Couldn't hear it all but I got the gist -- flying off to unknown blue sky and "touching the face of God."

This pairing also brings a whole new meaning to the "Peter Prinicpal." He was at least two levels above his likely level of (sexual) competence or mutual attraction.

Did anyone else notice the striking resemblence of the model in the Playtex ad and Rachel? As creative director, Don would have had final approval on the model and no doubt picked her.for that reason.

OK, but the most striking visual was Betty in the yellow bikini. What a classic 60's innocent but sexual allluring vision!!

It's true--many 'dreams' for women were snuffed out back then, and swiftly--mostly through a refusal of higher education. It was not as accessible as it is now, and if Daddy didn't wanna pay, we didn't go! It's really very recently that men who came later than Don Draper accepted that their daughters as well as their sons deserved an equal shot at life. It was always assumed (I think it still is to an extent) that women need marry or risk destitution at some point in their lives!!!

Thanks, Madshrubbery, for the opening song info. I (and I'd wager, many others here) am not familiar with that song and it's certainly not of the period (from 2005). That said, this description of "The Infanta" I found rings true of the women of MM:

This song puts to words in a symbolic way the image of the Infanta Maria Teresa (later, Marie Therese) that emerges from Antonia Fraser's biography on Louis IVX. Uncannily, though, the song apparently preceded the publication of Fraser's book. The song imagery parallels the way a traditional infanta was "turned out" like a dressed up doll. (The current Spanish Infanta is a very modern, well-educated young woman). The song also hints at the personal powerlessness of an Infanta at the Spanish Court at the time of Louis IVX except as a future wife of a king and mother of his heir.Any thought of pursuit of an Infanta's personal dreams or aspirations was out of the question. Thus does the song shine a feminist light in a subtle and symbolic way on the historic position of virtually all "privileged" women in many traditional societies.
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=7641

Peggy is nuts to go to the stripper club with her boobs hanging out to try and join the boys at their own game. She should leave and start her own ad agency and take Joan with her.

The show is very good. But at times we viewers can over-analyze Mad Men. That "anal" approach to the show may be taking some of the fun out of the program.

I did like this episode for the simple fact that Don Draper was 50 flavors of sexy! The white satin sheets, the lite bondage, his body (those legs!!) in that little pink towel, etc. Rowr!

Again, sometimes ya have to not take this show too seriously and enjoy the...view!!

It's interesting to read everyone's interpretation of Don's shaving/mirror scene. This is how I interpreted it: His daughter said (I paraphrase) "I'll stop talking so you don't cut yourself." As we all know, the word "talking" triggered the memory of his earlier conversation with Bobbie. All of the "talking" about his affairs with women could shatter his pristine image. What would he do if that happened? Flip out and cut himself (commit suicide?) That's my interpretation. Remember how Don reacted when Pete said he'd reveal his past unless he promoted him? Don fled to Rachel and was prepared to completely drop everything--his job, wife and kids--to run off with her and start all over again.

And can someone please decipher the symbolism of the Utz potato chip bag on top of the fridge or am I just reading too much into things?

I didn't like this episode at all. As someone's already said, these characters are getting way too out of control and it's not much fun to watch. I can handle one or two mad men but an entire office full?

And Pete smiling at himself in the mirror after cheating on his wife? I think that disgusted me more than anything else in this episode. That reminds me...there were a few scenes involving mirrors in this episode.

Hello fellow Maddicts! Did anyone find Chauncey yet??

This is a show about work, set mostly in a work setting, so I don't think it is inappropriate to wish everyone a Happy Labor Day! And to say, raise a glass today for all we do whatever we "labor" at!!

I'm surprised no one has brought up Betty's interaction with Arthur in this episode. Did you see her reaction when her kids ran up to her?

I just realized in reading this post that someone else is using my sign in name "60's child". Is this allowed? I thought once a name was chosen, it couln't be used again!!

Hi Mike Hoxton! Yes, I did notice, and I noticed Arthur's reaction when he looked at the kids!
Then Betts buys a sexy bikini to wear at the club pool? Hm....maybe so Artie can see her bod, even though she has had kids?

I do remember my prudier friends were incensed (and actually broke with me) when i and an adventurous friend went into a chic boutique and bought french underwire bikinis - it was thought of as unsubtle if not desperate to flash cleavage etc in those days. we just loved strutting our stuff on the beach - and the next year those prudes all had bikinis.

I thought the mirror reflecting the mirror was artful - how many times removed Don is from Dick, how far beneath his adaptations is that decent core we all love, that he violates when he cheats - I think Betty was an image to him when he married her - I think this series is so well done, articulating many nuances of our cultural history so well. I wonder if a Soprano's writer named Don Don for a reason. (or Dick appropriating Don)

And yes, Duck needs a "save the cat' scene, which Chauncey could have been, till he cut him loose - saving the cat being something redeeming that makes him sympathetic ergo more real than the jerk he is to flesh him out - i wish there would be a scene in which he looks at a shelter for Chauncey - or as someone already said, has his "Holly Golightly moment."

I am not sure Peggy will totally lose the guys' respect - this remains to be seen - I mean I don't know how much less respect she can get from them as it is - AND maybe her awesome presentation (devil with a blue dress, blue dress on?) could put them in their places.

Women are still looking for self expression (as are men) - whole different series - look how slutty even ivy league female grads are allowed to look on the job every day these days without incident

Interesting Don says "Irene Dunne" about Peggy - Irene Dunne starred opposite Cary Grant (Don is CG-ish in my view) in "The Awful Truth"

My father was a Don Draper and did the same thing with our dog.

I say to everyone who doesn't want to watch further episodes because of this...get over it.
50 years later, I have. Love this program.
I was a secretary going to college and worked in similar offices. Loved the parties, smoking and action in the offices My brother, another Don Draper, misses the action in offices today.
Toooo politically correct!.

I posted this on another thread.....I felt the theme of this show was the "two sides of.." the single model who could be either Jackie or Marilyn. So can everyone else on the show: The handsome, well regarded and successful creative director, Don Draper, who is a coward, a liar and a cheat, who can also be a kind father and a pretend-good husband: innocent little Peggy, who seduced a married man and had an out of wedlock child; Duck who loved his do so much, it seemed he paid more attention to the dog than his children - and then monstrously let it out on the street; Joan, who dresses slutty, but is looking forward to a middle class life with a doctor; and Bobbie - rough, coarse Bobbie who it turns out has two grown children and a daughter at the very tony Sarah Lawrence College, and was kind to Peggy. (I don't think we've seen the last of of Bobbi - at least I hope not!)

The last scene with the double reflection appeared to me to be the two sides of Don/Dick. The two of them.

Matt Weiner is a genius. This is literature on screen.

OMG Its a period piece people! I find it ridiculous that people go crazy because Peggy was slapped on the butte and objectified and even crazier because poor Chauncey was let go in the streets but NO ONE not even ONE comment about how black people are portrayed in this show.Invisible men who keep the white man's world clean and running smoothly.Should I get pissed at this as an AA?????
NO!! Its a period piece.... a history lesson.Watch it for what it is.And remember this is why women stood up for themselves..this is why MLK had a dream.It was the stepping off point and to be honest this country still has so much farther to go.So grab a drink.... light up a cig and enjoy this piece of TV entertainment..chill people seriously.

Has it come up yet, did Don have an affair with anyone at the office? His new secretary is very hot and yet he seems to completely disregard her. Does he just do his dirtywork outside the office? And come on, Betty looked HOT in the bikini. She also said to him in bed that one time, "tell me what to do", so she's no prude either.

I am more concerned about the ill treatment of Chauncey than the way some of the humans are treated on this show - seems that most viewers agree. I think it shows that most of us feel more protective and empathetic for a being that cannot take care of itself than for an adult human who, presumably, is expected to be self-sufficient. Too bad the writers didn't realize that they would simply strike a sour note with the abandonment of Chauncey instead of the fine character point they were making. It was obvious that Duck felt like the poor dog was giving him a disapproving look when he picked up the bottle - so he removed the disapproval. Think about it - alcoholics will desert their family, friends, profession - everything in life - so why not their beloved pet? Still, that scene spoiled the show for me before I got completely disgusted with not being able to hear the conversation between Don and Bobbie in bed.

Of course, Don's life is something similar to a person in the Witness Protection Program. But he is inherently successful due to his natural instincts for the advertising industy. This gives him a certain amt. of visibility. Yes, he has two sides--as do others, which were reinforced over and over in this episode. Don was extremely self confident in rising in his company. Everything was going well. But remember his reaction when recognized by his brother? Similar reaction when asked to stand to be recognized. Stomach turning, gut wrenching, when you don't want anyone to know the real you. Then Bobbie tells him that 'women' are talking about him and his prowess. Oh wow. Must be unnerving. Then his daughter saying "I'm just watching you." His reaction? Who exactly is she watching? There's a lot behind the mirrors here.

Does anyone know if MM has to get approvals and/or pay royalties to the companies they mention and showcase? While they are doing homages to the ad biz back then, most of the "clients" are still in business. And, there is product placement in the show as well, i.e., the Utz potato chips on top of the Draper's fridge, for example.

Re "High Flight" - I found a short vid of a sign-off I remember from my days as a young mother which includes this poem, wonderfully recited: http://cantara.vox.com/library/post/high-flight.html

Anybody notice the contrast between executive trysting and junior management trysting? Roger and Don seem to enjoy their flings in luxury and style, while Pete's was a sophomoric sofa-gropefest in a dowdy apartment with mom on the other side of a flimsy vinyl curtain.

Also, I think Mr. Weiner has created a character eminently relatable to the average viewer in Don Draper. Aren't we all torn between who we are, and who we aspire to be? And rarely the twain shall meet? I swing between scorn/disappointment at Don's actions (what are you DOING with that carnivorous Bobbie!!) to hope (ie. when he's trying to be a better husband/dad or when he really nails a pitch, ie. the Carousel) that he's finally finding his place, his peace. Of course, being a TV series, we will likely NOT see him find his peace because that wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

But still, I can relate to the internal struggle, and am very happy that there is finally something worth watching on TV. Thanks Matthew Weiner!

PS: re the abandonment of Chauncey, yes, I too am an avid dog lover, and also was horrified at Duck's actions...however, I think it's more than a little over the top for viewers to boycott the show because of this open-ended story line. If you want to stop watching the show because of cruelty, you should have stopped watching it early on in the first season at Don's callous treatment of his wife Betty.

This is just an aside regarding Marilyn Monroe in white, I recall something Marilyn once said in an interview when asked why she didn't try to be suntan. She said something like, Because I want to be blonde all over. I love that line.

They've mentioned Marilyn in the past two episodes. They mentioned Kennedy's womanizing too but as I recall no one ever spoke of that back then. I don't think it was widely known back in the Camelot years.

People have a choice and can remove themselves from an abusive or bad situation. Animals do not have that choice. That's part of the reason why it upset me when Duck abandoned Chauncey.

It's so interesting that Chauncey's fictional mistreatment struck such a chord. I hope you all realize that the dog was not harmed in any way. Duck is having a major breakdown, he's bound to misbehave just as the other characters do.

Just read throught the posts to get current.
Mike Hoxton-
Yes, noticed that Betty looked almost embarrassed by her kids breaking her little flirty moment w/ Arthur. Her look was," Damn I almost forgot that I had these two brats while I was flirting w/ you."

Arthur's look was priceless as well..."I was thinking you were a hot possible fling, but I'm not into kids lady. You have baggage. Later babe."

Then Don's reaction to Betty's hot little bikini number..."No wife of mine is going to be a MILF! I can't have 15 year old boys singing the likes of Sally's mom has got it goin' on! "

(Well this is the contemporary version of Don anyway!)

Judging by the posts, it really is true how immune we are to people treating other's badly, but that we really do freak when someone treats an animal badly. I can't help it. I did too.

MadMen1962- I like the idea of Chauncey being Ducks mirror that he just couldn't see himself in.

Chauncey looking at Duck..."Don't do it bud. The last time you drank I recall it didn't go so well. I love you man, and I don't want to see you crash and burn..."

Chauncey gets escorted out of the building by Duck. Chauncey looks in through the glass from the outside..,"I'm telling you man, don't do it! I can still see you, you know." Chauncey runs off.
"Well, that didn't go well. I better find a hydrant and pee. Maybe that goofy Pete guy will find me. Maybe he'll let me watch him and his wife try to make a baby."

If you don't see the humor in life then it really gets sad!

Darnnnn, so NOT what I was hoping for in the tie-up scene with DD ad Bobbie. Oh well, some good shots of Don before it all went awry.

Regarding the Utz bag in their home, I suppose its showing that Don is devoted to using his clients' products?

Mad-Maniac, obviously its a period piece, but I don't think putting animals out was socially acceptable back then (as many of the other shocking behaviors were.) It wasn't a sign of the times, just Duck's desperation/state of mind.

On Peggy, I too wished she hadn't let the guys "take control of her" once she arrived at the club but she has virtually no role models. Part of what I'm looking forward to is watching her navigate her way as the sole woman in the man's world. She did look great though. Man, she can play mousy really really well so it was a surprise.

Regarding Don's daughter at the end saying, "I won't talk Daddy, so you won't cut yourself..." Going with the mirror theme, we all have an image of ourselves of how we want to be seen. By Bobbi talking and revealing to Don that he's seen as a Don Juan by his other conquests, it makes it more difficult for Don to lie to himself as if "it never happened" another reoccurring theme used by Don and Peggy. His daughter adding "so you won't cut yourself" and Don's response underscores Don's need for his image to remain perfect, not flawed.

As for Chauncey the dog, I agree that Duck is an alcoholic and didn't want the dog to witness his behavior and seemingly judge him. Chauncey is Duck's mirror. We become so immune to people's mistreatment of other people, but it can really hit home, a similarly cruel act conducted towards an animal. Very powerful.

Don couldn't maintain his image of Bobbie (whore) in his head because she kept opening her mouth and saying things (son, daughter) that distanced him from his fantasy of her role in his life. Then the revelation of the 'talk' about him was something he couldn't pretend never happened, showed him in that moment that although he could tie her up he could never shut it up.

Pete's thing is different. After his efforts are shunted aside by Peggy, 'dogged' by Duck, he sees a way to bolster his self-esteem with someone impressed by his business card. And since he may now view his wife as barren he decides to give his little superman swimmers a better shot at bounty. Thus the smile in the mirror.

Something still simmers between Pete and Peggy; she may be it for him.

Everyone in the office went gaga over Chauncey--they made a point of showing how crazy everyone was over the dog. We know why Duck let him go, and we also know that a dog that beautiful won't be homeless for long.

Has anyone noticed that your post fall in to where your time zone is? I am actually posting an hour earlier than my post say because I am on Central Time.
Where is it already after 4pm?

Everytime I watch an episode, I have to watch it again right after on AMC to see all the subtle parts I missed the first time.

This episode was very powerful. I think the scene with Don shaving at the end and his little girl saying "I wont talk Daddy. I don't want you to cut yourself shaving" was a breakthrough moment for Don.

I believe that all of Don's escapades with women are episodes that he repeatedly makes 'not happen' in his mind. Don really believes this and compartmentalizes each episode (including the Army episode where he changes his identity) neatly and puts them in a box on a shelf where no one can seem them. When Bobbie tells him about his reputation, he suddenly realizes that he is not the person he believes he projects to the world. His ability to 'make events not happen' suddenly does not work and he is confronted by the reality of his reputation. He tells her to not talk and that she is ruining the moment and then when she does,he ties her to the bed and tells her again to stop talking which I believe is symbolic of him attempting to silence of all the events he had been 'making not happen".

The scene with his daughter's comments is a bshattering breakthorough for him because he may now understand that even his children can see who he really is and hence, he sends her out of the room. He does not finish shaving (he does not complete his daily transformation into Don Draper" and sits down not knowing what to do or who the man in the mirror even is. The double mirrored image shows both sides of him - the white and black as he states when he is pitching the Playtex campaign. It is almost as if he is really schizophrenic. There is Don Draper living inside his body and all that image projects and then there is the confused, hurt and lost boy who continually looks for genuine love and excitment in all the wrong places demonstrating that he believes he is unworthy of receiving it.

Has anyone ever thought that Don might be the father of Peggy's son? Do you remember what he told her when he visited her in the hospital. "Do whatever it is they tell you to do. This never happened. You will be amazed at how easy it is
to make this not happen'.

Bunch of unrelated thoughts:

I am am far more interested in the parts of the show that take place in the office, or relating to business, than the parts that don't. I wonder if I am in the minority on that? I imagine I am.

I kept waiting for Peggy to suggest "cross your heart" as the Playtex theme.

Love the period touches: Don in his white t-shirt. Don wearing a hat (JFK killed that). Don going into the fridge and pulling out milk — in a bottle.

I see an awful lot of similarities between Don and Tony Soprano. Perhaps because so many of the writers worked on that show?

Glad to hear somebody else was having trouble hearing what was said between Don and Bobbi - I kept turning up the vol. and wondering if I was going deaf -

Peggy looked like a little girl playing in her mother's dress at the Tom Tom Club. What was with those plastered down bangs - sheesh!

As for Chauncey, the act was meant to shock us and it did - although in real life, he would have had a better chance on the street where somebody would find him than in a pound where his days would be very numbered. I thought the insight about Duck being Don further down the line was a good one. Don's last two projects have failed.

Don had a little lightbulb go on in his head when Bobbie told him of his Don Juan reputation around town. He was so absolutely shocked by this — which I found very amusing. In the mirror, he had to look at himself just AS he was reminded of Bobbie and her comment by the "I won't talk" line delivered by little Sally.
Mirrors were a big thing in this epi. Pete trying to get a little ego boost from Peggy, and she wasn't offering any, so he grabs the next girl he sees to prove to himself that he's still... whatever, then he looks in the mirror after sneaking in the door of his house.
Hated Don putting down Betty's bikini outfit. How dare he tell her it looks "desparate". Hope she has a fling with the stable guy. Hated Duck letting the dog let go. This bothered me so much, I could hardly watch the rest of the show. But I loved this episode. Joan seems to be getting heavier by the episode. Is there a reason for this?

Just a thought - there seems to be no real reason for Don to be so jealous or restrictive about Betty, yet he does watch her constantly when they are in public - and there is some reason she was under psychiatric care. Maybe it will come out that she has had an affair or other romantic interests in the past. I am still bothered by that incident with the little boy next door and her strange behavior with a service man (or salesman) who came to her house. Women of that era were so sexually repressed and lacking in outlets for their emotional energy, it was common for them to develop unexpected crushes on unsuitable men. Usually it went no further than daydreaming, but it often was more like a teenager than an adult.

I think the guys will actually see Peggy as one of the guys. She will need to come up with a new attitude at work too. It can't be as a sex kitten, but as "one of the guys" who is in on the secret.

Hope she is able to make it work.

I do remember women co-workers who did just this in the 60's and early 70's. It had an aura of acceptibility because it in the course of entertaining a client.

Besides, what does Peggy have to lose? The other women already want nothing to do with her and she can't move back to the secretary pool.

Wow, I just watched on On Demand. What a great episode! It's getting darker in a way, but excitingly so.

Michele - Thanks for pointing out the PANTYHOSE. I scrolled through 100 of these posts waiting for someone to comment on that. I think you're right on with circa 1967 for L'Eggs coming on the scene. Too bad they couldn't have saved that scene and had Sterling Coo come up with the L'Eggs campaign.

The Marilyn/Jackie campaign was brilliant but will be useless in a few months when Marilyn turns up dead.

Does anyone else think the Xerox machine is displayed prominently in every episode? It's almost as if they're getting ready to do a campaign for Xerox. Maybe the Brother Dominic "It's a miracle" commercials ??

mad_maniac:

hey i agree with you 100%, i can't believe people actually try to nitpick this show. i think we should just appreciate that there's something different, something ballsy, something so dedicated to the fact within the fiction and most importantly something that as a viewer we can wrap our mind around by ourselves.

one of the (many) reasons i love this show is that it displays things, without the commentary.

too many are bent on giving social commentaries and lectures instead of simply being interested in producing good art.

when you commentate you lose your audiance. that's why hollywood should just shut up. but when you allow people's minds to work by themselves, people do in fact get it. contrary to what political types think, the american audiance is not in fact stupid. we're not dumb, sorry to ruin the myth for those but, no, we're actually not stupid.

for example, even being your average moderate republican white guy, i don't need the commentary; yes i was born after 1970 but i do get it, i've read and agree with my history books. i hear the black community, believe it or not.. no one who has watched this show hasn't noticed that blacks are rarely seen and when they are it's in subordinate roles. it's not only a production decision but also a more grand metaphor for life at this time. but that's what's terrific about this whole art project. they don't hold our hand, they put forth what they want without spelling it out for us and trust us to see it, and, we do.

so i don't know why people choose to nitpick. we have something that's not on network tv, so we have it all to ourselves. people are complaining about the dog?? the dog is about duck, the dog is an insight to duck which we haven't seen. all these characters have layers underneath, and the dog is about our first deep glimpse of duck. that's all. i agree with you 100% madmaniac, people need to settle and i'm glad we can at least have this conversation.

Elisabeth Moss said in the "inside Maidenform" video that when Pete looked at Peggy she saw herself through his eyes and knew that it was so uncharacteristic of her to do such a thing. She can't be one of the guys, she just can't.

There is SOMETHING going on with Pete and Peggy. I honestly thought it was over but clearly not. I think it's on his part. Am I wrong? Why did he look at her like that? Why won't he leave her alone?

Don was just awful towards Betty. Those moments make me hate him. He crushed her.

Ken's comment to Peggy, I think he's trying to talk to her the way he would talk to any of the other guys. They all insult each other and poke fun, but it was so wrong. I mean Ken is the nicest to her, and he still comes out with those awful remarks.

Greg: Well said! I love this show. I loved this episode. Loved the sex scenes too. Some people are getting bent out of shape about the "bondage" theme, as though NOBODY does that.

Laurie B: I liked the lite bondage too! It was hot!

Don looked f*ckable the whole episode, to be honest! Dude has a great set of legs on him!!

Greg- You got it. Everyone's a critic though. We even criticize the fact that we're critisizing.

This show has so much to offer and the characters are so multifaceted that I think others can't help but annalize it. Good writing like this makes the reader/listener want that.There's no doubt that this is one of the best written shows on TV now.

I personally like to see the comedy in the darkness which is always there if you are paying attention. (i.e. Roger wacking the paddle ball just after seeing Pete needing to give a sperm sample. Classic!)

Has anyone seen my relaxeciser, man I could have used it during the bondage scene. Heck, I'm gonna find it and view it the right way!!!!!!!!

Pantyhose in 1962? I don't think so !!!!

At the very begining of the episode one of the women appeared to be putting on "stockings", but it appeared to me (and some others whom I've asked) that when she gave the final tug, it was pantyhose she was pulling over her hips. I'm old enough to remember there was NO pantyhose in 1962. This surprised me as usually the program is extremely accurate in it's timeline detail. Did anyone else notice this?

Hmmm I'm wondering is maybe Peggy was trying on some of the original scratchy pantyhose that might have been on the market back then but not popular because of its difficulty?? Maybe? And then this might be Peggy's breakthrough idea to market L'Eggs? .... Nahhhh...

Mad_Maniac and Greg....I totally agree! And thank you Matthew Weiner....I love love love this show...my God it is unbelieveable (but true) how things were!! (I was born in 1950---I had babysitters like Peggy, and babysitters like Joanie)
I crack up laughing reading the posts of people who make suggestions about what characters should do next. Folks, it's a TV show (and great history lesson), the writers are not seeking your advice...they are telling a story, and telling it very well. Peggy did something stupid by going to the girly show----but it is such a great example of how a naive woman would possibly have tried to be seen as an equal to the men.
Congratulations to everyone on the show....actors, set designers, directors, costume designers....keep up the good work....LOVE IT!!

I'm new to Mad Men this season, although I have gone back and watched about half of the first season. I love the show because even though my background is working class Chicago, it captures that time so well--better than anything else I've ever seen--and so without cliches. Yes, the sexism, racism, insensitivity, etc. was all so much greater and so much more on the surface. I remember still wearing garter belts and hose in high school (1967 or so) so I think the panty hose are an anachronism. I had a summer job at the Government Printing Office during the mid 60s, and women used to be talked about as if they were children, or mentally handicapped--as though they just couldn't handle certain jobs--because they just didn't have the same mental ability as men. My dad (divorced and in his 80s) thinks that the state of marriage means that the husband is the boss, period. Being married, for him, meant having the right to have his orders obeyed, no matter what. (Don and Betty.) And most women obeyed, because they didn't work outside the home and had no real alternatives.

Did you notice that the bathing suit models used in the Memorial Day fashion show had fat on their stomachs? Today's standards would require much thinner girls! I need a drink!!

Did you notice that the bathing suit models used in the Memorial Day fashion show had fat on their stomachs? Today's standards would require much thinner girls! I need a drink!!

Did you notice that the bathing suit models used in the Memorial Day fashion show had fat on their stomachs? Today's standards would require much thinner girls! I need a drink!!

peteygirl:
damn straight i noticed.
these were womenly women, not the washboard abds that today's girls have been sold (by today's mad men?)

Did anyone else catch the reference to Sylvia Plath in the country club scene? The woman comments to Betty that "whenever it gets this hot I remember the summer they executed the Rosenbergs."

In the Bell Jar, Plath writes, "It was the summer they executed the Rosenbergs."

Up to know, I liked the show's attention to period detail and realistic character portrayls. But Episode 6 stretched my credulity. The girls in the office looked like they each had silicone breast implants. Joan looked like an over-padded circus clown. Betty was parading around nude in front of her small children. Peggy looked absurd at the strip club. Otherwise, it was okay.

"Did you notice that the bathing suit models used in the Memorial Day fashion show had fat on their stomachs? Today's standards would require much thinner girls! I need a drink!!"

Because, as one of the MM writers noted in the episode, in those days women's bodies were about what men wanted to see. Today they're about one-upping other women in the zero-body-fat sweepstakes.

Thank you Mad Maniac, Greg, lemoncake, etc. For goodness sake, it's drama, and yes, people did and still do things that we find deplorable - in real life (history) and in fiction.

About Don's incident with the daughter promising not to talk while he shaved - what if it reminded him of a day in his own life decades before, when as young "Dick Whitman" he told his own father he'd just sit and watch and not talk, while his father shoed a horse or was working around the horse, and the horse bashes in the father's brains while he watches?

MadMen1962, good stuff about Chauncey being Duck's mirror, like Pete was to Peggy and Don's mirror was to him. It's funny, Pete seems to view Peggy as Don views Betty -- the madonna type who should never be coarsened in any way. Can't tell how Pete views his wife, really, except as a prop from a set where he doesn't want to be. Anybody else notice how much in his home life he's not in the bedroom at night?

The sex scenes and what gets suggested are pretty intense on this show. Too bad they involve Bobbie, but I think he may be done with her now. Here's hoping Betty starts something torrid; her fantasy with the salesman aided by the laundry machine was pretty sexy. Wonder who's next for Don? Visan, I have to admit, Don did look a stud this whole episode in particular. Apart from his psychological issues, I'm completely jealous of that guy.

Speaking of pyschological issues, anyone out there qualified to diagnose Don anyway? I don't know my psych too well, but it seems like some kind of dissociative disorder, which is apparently common in childhood survivors of physical or sexual abuse. Some of the signs/symptoms are: multiple mannerisms, attitudes and beliefs that are dissimilar to each other; headaches and other body pains; distortion or loss of subjective time; depersonalization; amnesia; depression. Sounds like our boy -- ever notice how much he loses track of time, like when he turned up a few hours late for the meeting this season? Anyone who knows more about this stuff, please step up. I'm curious.

I too noticed the bodies on the bathing suit models. They looked very authentic for the 1960's.

Quote: By GA Coast on September 1, 2008 4:39 PM

Just a thought - there seems to be no real reason for Don to be so jealous or restrictive about Betty, yet he does watch her constantly when they are in public - and there is some reason she was under psychiatric care. Maybe it will come out that she has had an affair or other romantic interests in the past. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He's jealous because it's very common for cheating spouses, to believe their own behavior is being repeated or contemplated by the betrayed spouse. It's called "projection", in psychology.
And she's in therapy (or was) because Don was troubled that she was seeming weak and very unhappy. Which she had reason to be, as she knows he's unfaithful to her on a regular basis...she gets no support form him emotionally....and then she finds out the therapist is "reporting" to Don...well WTF!!!!!

I know everyone keeps commenting on Don's state of mind, but I have to agree w/ Visan on how extra hot he looked in the bedroom scenes.
I have already mentioned that I thought especially in the first scene w/ Bobbie and the satin sheets so low on his waist...he may be loosing his mind, but he's not loosing his looks!
And as I have also mentioned, Don may be worried about Betty going out in her little bikini and seen as a MILF, but he's got to be the neighborhood DILF! (That's for anyone who has seen American Pie)

....i had written this somewhere else, but did anyone else think it was funny when they cut from a shot of Pete, his brother and their two wives passing a big, fat juicy steak, straight into a pair of voluptuous swaying hips at the bikini fashion show at the country club?

hilarious!

I know I already asked this, but it did it again. My post was placed on my earlier time zone, not in the order it was posted. It makes it hard to follow if you are commenting on a previous post. Is this happening to anyone else?

Hey Laurie B.- Let us know when the next Attention Deficeit Theater does their take on Episode 6. I always find it hilarious!

I have to begin with saying, I've seen every episode of Mad Men, and have watched every commentary on the DVDs of Season 1, and have read every comment on every thread... yet I have never posted a comment. I'm truly amazed at the insights these postings provide... everyone here really thinks about every single scene, line, prop, expression and what it all means. I love it!! I don't know if anyone who actually writes/produces this show reads these postings - but if they do - I hope they find all of this intense analysis a complement to the writing and production of Mad Men.

But on to my comments on this episode...

I too wondered if showing Peggy putting on pantyhose was a little early chronologically for the 60's, yet I immediately thought it represented that Peggy's part of a new breed of women... she's more focused on her career than her dress - the perfect target for a new "nylon" for the woman on the go... pantyhose.

I also had a thought about Bobbi saying she heard from a woman at Random House about Don's reputation. Didn't Midge work for a publising house? Or was she a greeting card artist? I thought maybe that's where the rumor might have started.

And as for Peggy finally getting her makeover - I saw that coming since she got promoted to junior copywriter at the end of last season. Didn't expect to see it at a strip club, but hey, I say, "Good for Peggy!" I myself work in advertising and have been taken to strip clubs (w/women dancers) by male ad sales reps. Ironically, while I don't have to "try and be a man" to be successful in business these days (or at least not as much) I think men think I wanted to be treated like a man!

Speaking of the mirror/opposites/madonna-whore theme of the show: I found it interesting when the meeting was going on in Don's office for the Jackie/Marilyn bra ad, Peggy said "not all women are Jackies or Marilyns". Then, when discussing what type Peggy was, Ken said "Gertrude Stein", Sal said "Hellenic" (classical) and Don said "Irene Dunn". I'm not an Irene Dunn expert, but my impression is she played classy, virtuous and intelligent women in most of her movies. Soooo...here is a woman that Don can't easily compartmentalize into the usual dichotomy. Is that part of their bond? Does this inspire trust in Don? Maybe Peggy represents the female version of the "good" Don, just as Bobbie is the female version of the "bad" Don. He needs her UNCONDITIONAL support. There is a "condition" to his relations to every other character. Remember when Peggy told Bobbie she "didn't expect him to be anyone but who he is"?

momotom,
Ann Miller wore pantyhose in the 1940's. They were made for her to dance! They have been around since.

Dixiegirl,
I made a comment about this before. Yes, right after she let the a/c salesman, Don calls her psych and says "she's not better, she's worse!" And, I wondered, did she go out on Don? Was she a lady of the night with her friend Juanita? Although, there's a lot of dialogue indicating she's a good innocent girl. But, it was Don's reaction that made me wonder about her past. Her little play with the little boy too. Strange. This season, she plays the society girl well, but not last season. I wonder about her background.

The timing is messed up again. I posted my last 2 at 10:05 and 10:14 p.m Pacific time!

Just for the record, I remember my first pair of panty hose very clearly as they were bought for mye to wear to my confirmation which I believe was around 1962. I also remember that they lasted forever... so naturally the powers that be had to 'improve' them.

A good part of the fun of this incredibly brilliant series is reading these postings. People are so insightful, and very often really nail an observation that's been swimming around in the back of my brain, unarticulated.

A comment on Bobbi's role, which I hadn't quite understood before this: she's a sexual predator, not the usual partner for Don, so he's robbed of that sense of conquest that's so much a part of his joy in sex. Like everything else in his life, sex is a competitive sport. When she tells him that he has a reputation as a stud, he's horrified at the thought that he's being viewed as a provider, thus not the controller. Who's using who?

The same principle applies to his inability to perform when Betty wore her teddy in the hotel bedroom on Valentine's Day. He doesn't want to be seduced, because heaven forbid he might be used as a vehicle for someone else's pleasure. It's all about HIM.

And his disapproval of Betty's bikini outfit also stems from his need to be in charge, more than any real worry that she might actually provoke advances from some other guy. It's all about the fact that she's HIS personal badge, an affirmation of his own status. He married her because she was the perfect fit for his ego needs.

....Mad_Maniac, i think a lot of people are wondering how history is going to be treated in the future episodes.... right now all we have to go on is how matt weiner treated the nixon-kennedy election... also remember that, until recently, most of the scenes take place either at Sterling Cooper or in the Draper household... that's already changing...we'll see i guess...

Ken's comparison of Peggy to Gertrude Stein was insulting and stupid - have you ever seen photos of Gertrude Stein? She looked like an ugly, fat, short man with a faint mustache. However, Stein was considered an early example of a modern intellectual female breaking from the mold of traditional womanhood of her era.

Sal's "hellenic" comment was a neutral compliment - saying that Peggy looks classical, restrained, timeless - but also sexless. The female form in classical Greek sculpture was generally not portrayed as sensual. Sal's comment is actually workplace appropriate and not sexist. He's looking at her as a colleague, not a sex object.

Don's comparison with Irene Dunne is very complimentary indeed. She was an extremely talented, upscale, intelligent, versatile and beautiful actress, singer and dancer from the 30's and 40's who always played smart and classy women with impeccable reputations. Yes, one of her best and most hilarious films is the 1930's "screwball comedy" with Cary Grant, "The Awful Truth". I highly recommend that film!

To be honest, Peggy strikes me more as a Margaret Sullavan type. (Spelling is correct.) Find her IMDb stats here: http://imdb.com/name/nm0837925 . A star of the 1930's and 40's, Sullavan's best roles were as faithful gal pals (eg Three Comrades, screenplay co-written by Scott Fitzgerald) or dutiful daughters in wartime (eg So Ends Our Night, The Mortal Storm) - although she's most known for a classic romantic comedy called The Shop Around the Corner (remade in the 80s as You've Got Mail). Through her daughter's memoir, she's is also known for being the mother in a troubled family (depression, drinking, suicide). She died in 1960 at the shockingly early age of 50.

In short, Sullavan played earnest women, and Peggy is nothing if not earnest. Don's comparison of her to Irene Dunne - who always added a touch of lightness and humor to her many and varied roles - was more than a compliment. I think he understood that Peggy was a "Sullavan" earnest type who aspired to the effortless classiness of Irene Dunne. It was actually quite a lovely gift to her.

As long as we're on the subject of movies, how about Pete giving away the ending to The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance? What a spoiler he is, the little creep! This is a man who cannot keep a secret if he thinks it'll work to his advantage.

Any comments on Pete's choices of movies (Cape Fear, Liberty Valance), by the way?

By ske on September 1, 2008 2:40 PM
Don couldn't maintain his image of Bobbie (whore) in his head because she kept opening her mouth and saying things (son, daughter) that distanced him from his fantasy of her role in his life.

As has been said, Don has Madonna/Whore issues. He wants the perfect family and Betts is his Madonna.

When Don found out that Bobbie had a daughter he was visibly annoyed. When he found out about her son that totally blew his Whore fantasy. We haven't seen him tangled up with a married woman before, and definitely not a woman with kids, especially college aged ones.

Wonder what bomb Bert Cooper is going to drop in the next episode.

guys, please enough already with the dog. it didn't really happen. its a t.v show folks. and yes i have a dog that my family and i care for very much.

Re Duck and Chauncey:
Duck is an alcoholic, who hasn't been drinking. In the scene, his crumbling life has scared him to the point where he has decided that getting drunk again is the answer (typical alcoholic thinking). His brain, mired in chaos, sees Chauncey's loving gaze as accusatory and mocking.

Chauncey represents his old life, and Duck at that moment is faced with two choices - accept the fact that he has screwed up his life and the lives of his family, or oblivion through drinking. Of course, he chooses oblivion (as any alcoholic would), but Chauncey now stands in the way. In order for Duck to drink Chauncey must go away, and by the time Duck gets down to the front door he has fully rationalized the decision to simply throw out his loving dog (and symbolically, his entire family life). The look on his face as he walks back toward the office (and the booze) tells us all we need to know.

It's cruel and unconscionable, certainly. But these are the things alcoholics do every day - and it is very consistent (and revelatory) about Duck's character.

I agree Duck and Don both may be suicidal but they went WAY TOO FAR with treating Chauncey like that. They need to bring Chauncey back as part of Duck's recovery and redemption - especially to the viewers.

I'm thinking that Don started to get his "Don Juan" reputation during the period after he and Rachel broke up and that he was sleeping around to try and forget her.

So, Sarah Tierney at Random House gossiped about his prowess - that conjures up all sorts of possibilities! Was she the woman on the subway? How would Bobbie know her? Is Sarah in book publicity? That's my guess. However, my fantasy is that she was one of the associate editors involved in publishing the 1961 "definitive, corrected" version of Ulysses (a steady seller for Random House since 1933) and turned Don on to reading James Joyce.

Just a fantasy.

I may have been hallucinating, but I thought I heard Bobbi say that she had been "talking" and that didn't sit too well with Don. Then Bobbi said that he had a "reputation." I have to watch it again, but Bobbi did say "reputation." Every woman Don takes to bed is just like him - unfeeling. I guess Bobbi thought Don wouldn't take offense. After all, she doesn't want him to divorce his wife - just have some fun.

I thought Betty in the bikini was stunning.

As for Peggy - in 1962, it was still a man's world and she's trying to get her foot in the door. It took a lot of guts for her to walk into that club, but she "had" to do it. She's just as much a part of the creative team as all the men and yet, she's not copied on memos and not invited out to after-work festivities. If that were Bobbi instead of Peggy, she would have been one of the guys. Peggy will learn.

My opinion.

Re: the Utz chips on top of the Draper refrigerator. Like Lucky Strikes, they probably had a storage room full of bags.

Re: Peggy at the club. She did it once and that's all she really needs to do it. She's proved she can hang with the guys wherever they go if need be. She didn't sit on Cosgrove or Pete's lap which could set up problems at the office. She did it on the client's chair who was not going to do anything with her. She was neatly dressed but not like a little girl, to say the least.

I interpreted Don's remark about Betty's bikini as at a minimum, paternalistic, starting with the comment about fifteen year-old lifeguards (who would be lusting after her - he remembers how he was at that age) and ending with smacks of desperation (trying to hang onto her youth). Yeah, it's Madonna/whore complex but not without reasoning behind it.

Someone mentioned Peggy's seduction of a married man. If you're talking about Pete, he wasn't married the first time they did it. Her sister Anita just doesn't have the facts or made them up to suit the situation.

As far as Betty going out "on business" like her modeling roommate, Juanita, I rather doubt it. She definitely had her eye on the main chance but was looking for a ring on the left hand before she would go past "second base." Which is why she was initially surprised Juanita was in the "business." As a model both girls would have had lots of offers. Juanita just decided at one point to take some of them.

Unlike almost all the other guys on the show, Don doesn't "play around" in two places - the office and at home. Clients, contractors and other women he may meet, yes. But no employees or neighbors. Which is why Joan was puzzled (in the first season) that he never made a pass at her.

Gertrude Stein was someone who would not have been interested in any of the fellas - besides being unglam, she was gay.

I think Bobbie is Don's raciest to date, hence the kind of sex. And their relationship has been about power/domination from the get-go.

I love this show. I am actually new to it this season.
As a child of the 80's I find this show fasinating. I love that the show is dark, moody and authentic.
It is somthing totally different from the either PC crap on the networks or the nonsense of reality TV.
The drinking, smoking and womenizing is fantastic.
That being said I find myself getting offended. Like when Betty is all but cruel to her young son. I have young children and her treatment upsets me. The abanoment of Chauncey was shocking because most nice people now days would not do such a thing. But in the 60's I doubt many would have thought twice.
I think that the writers want us to be fansinated, offended and to keep us talking. And I wonder if the pantyhose thing was just to keep us on our toes.
This is a great show and I hope they do not change a thing.

Peggy will save the Playtex account and take over the concept - that's why she sat in teh client's lap!

Old Fashioned! Psychobabble is a downer! Creative people creating lose all sense of time. Don is a creative guy - that's not a symptom! I love the interviews (on you tube) with Jill Bolte Taylor, a brain scientist who witnessed her own massive stroke and her own recovery from it - great descriptions of modes and stages of cognition and cognitive development.

I am a little bit curious as to why nobody's got the shakes at work - only Roger has suffered any consequence of heavy drinking

Maybe Bobbie has a daughter who slept with Don!!

Hi Gotham Goddess! Where did you see the Matt Weiner clip? I have read that others have seen interviews too, I'd like to check them out, Thanks!

I don't know how it took so long for panty hose to come to my little circle of friends - I remember I had a pucci inspired girdle in 1966 and regular stockings, like my friends, still children - I think it was a year later that we got panty hose. (My OB-GYN father never approved of them, nor nylon undies - no air - he also didn't like scented bubble bath because he thought it was an irritant)

Gotham Goddess,
I agree that Don has to be with other women to perform. He lives for the thrill. I think he views Betty as what a mother/wife should be and restricts his passion with her. You can see him unraveling more with each episode with his guilt. I am anxious to see next week's episode. What is up with Jimmy inviting Betty to some gala? Is he into Betty or does he know about Bobbie and Don and is lashing out? The preview on tv shows him saying I have been laughing about you for 19 years or something to that effect. I assume he is talking to Bobbie?

Don freaking out in the last scene was because he was reacting to his daughter saying I 'don't want you to cut yourself. I think Don was committed a long time ago which is why he told Peggy to get the hell out of there. It was as if in that scene a door was cracking open and all of his demons were trying to come out and there was the darkness surrounding him as he held that razor. That is how I saw the scene. Much more layered and had nothing to do with Bobbie or talking.

This episode was relentlessly misogynistic and it was overwhelming. It came at us from every angle.
Don wants control over his women.
He can't control gossip so he cut Bobbie loose.

Lastly, seeing Don so adventurous in bed was out of character for him. From the beginning he has been shown as a lusty man, but never kinky or anything other than missionary. Did anyone else find it out of the blue? He was so clueless about the vibrator, remember? "What does it do exactly?" This seemed a little out of left field, although I ain't complaining!

I think we're going to find out that Don did time in a mental institution, similar to Peggy. Sally said she wouldn't talk so he wouldn't cut himself and that's what did him in. Did he try to commit suicide before?

Great observation Nancy. That would make his line in the previous episode make alot of sense. The line I'm referring to is when he's went to visit Peggy in the hospital and was telling her to just do what the doctors said and that she wouldnt believe how easy it was to forget..

Gotham, nice point about Don being a good boy. I hadn't thought about that; you're right, Ms Tierney was probably pre-Season 1. As to Don being committed, I wonder -- he doesn't strike me as the suicidial tendency type. Deserter, sure. Depressed and dark, absolutely. But resourceful when it comes to reinvention. Who knows, though, I could be wrong.

By the way, I thought it was funny that Bobbie said to Don that their fling wasn't for either of them a 'maiden voyage.' Nice nod to 'Maidenform' of the title; poor Don can't stand the thought of being akin to the dirty old tramp he seems to perceive Bobbie to be.

Anyone think in the final bathroom scene don possibly got upset because he thinks Bobbi may have cut HERSELF..she doesnt seem to happy in her life and she did make a comment to him about being suprised she'd kept him intrested so long. Then he ties her up and leaves her..not exactly the nicest exit..Maybe he's sitting there hoping and thinking about the possibility of what bobbi has done..???

Did anyone notice Bobby running around the house playing with a metal bucket on his head? Cute stuff! It showed he is just a normal precocious young boy.

FYI...This was when Betty was in her yellow bikini serving her daughter cereal.

Oh and the exact word Bobbi used was connoisseur.
She has heard he was a connoisseur and she was flattered that she kept him interested.
I also think he hates people talking about him because then he can't forget the past. Remember he told Peggy "You will be amazed how much you will forget about it" as well as "When you forget something, I guess you forget all of it" (he said that before paying her back).
So he literally is so good at forgetting his past that he did not know who Bobbi was referring to AND that means his past still lives in the memories of others!

Maybe his past was waking up from a slumber in that last scene. Chilling.

Okay, sorry, one more thing: I think the affairs, especially the one with the woman from Random House, was during Don's start in NYC. This, hopefully will be a flash back sequence.

Remember, Don has been a good boy since last season. As Weiner said in a clip, it's as if Don has fallen off the wagon with Bobbi. His fidelity was what was making him impotent.
Now he can perform again.

I thought it was a brilliant episode. Obviously, on the whole "whore, madonna" thing. So fascinating was the depiction of the compartmentalization that goes on in some mens minds on this whole issue.

I thought the ending was powerful. I was thinking that Don's (be still my beating heart) daughters' comment as she looked up at (and to) him, about not talking, brought the 2 times that that phrase was used in two VERY different situations, made him see himself, and the picture was not a very pretty one. And the way the ending shot panned out so you saw him in 2 frames, brilliant!!

I don't think Don is anywhere near changing his ways (just my opinion). He does this whole 2 lives thing with such ease. It is interesting though that after the country club when his whole family was looking at him with admiration, he is compelled to meet with Bobbi. Is it the old axiom "a dog returns to his vomit?" You know, where somebody is convinced they are scum, because of their past or present actions/life so they keep behaving in a way to verify that? Maybe "good" behaviour stresses him out more than his amoral behaviour.

Man, I love this show.

the opening sequence had a factual error in the Maidenform episode. Peggy was pulling on her pantyhose. However pantyhose weren't introduced on the market until 1965!

In the Maidenform episode, there was an historical error. In the opening sequence, Peggy is pulling on her panthose. However, pantyhose weren't introduced on the market until 1965!

Oh, and about the dog. These people obviously are not the finest of folks. They abuse their families, they abuse their pets, and they abuse themselves. Poor Chauncy was put out because he was made Duck's conscious trouble him. I have seen that happen with anybody who gets in the way, when somebody wants to justify their crappy behaviour.

I just cannot WAIT for the day Betty's comes into her own. The way he humiliated her really was infuriating!!!

Totally agree with you Greg. Although you were born after 1970 and I was born in 1945 you seem to have more sense than most. Some of the bloggers (especially the ones who are on here more than 20 times for one episode - you know who you are) obviously have some other agenda. Sometimes I even wonder if some of them are not working for AMC or god forbid the show itself.

That being said, if I were a writer on this show I would of course read all the blogs and then try to thwart them as much as I could. The writers can go any which way they want. It's still fun to watch.

The only real fun for the viewer is to see if they mess up in some way the reality of the era. Right now, the only thing that gets my attention is UTZ. I grew up in New York City proper and don't remember UTZ at all. Maybe they were selling in the suburbs but I don't remember ever seeing that name on products in NYC in 1962.

Hi penultimate! I never heard of UTZ chips until I moved to New England. I was a New York (up the Hudson) kid, and all I ever ate were Wise chips in the 1960's.

OK, sorry, I don't mean to be annoying, but one more thing :)

If this show merely included sex scenes for the sake of sex scenes, It would lose me pronto. Geez, I could find that on any channel, any time. There are a SLEW of shows/movies that go to the old bedroom as titillation and to fill in "plot". What I love about this show is there are so many layers to what is going on. It puts a light on the fact that then, and now, selfless people who indulge themselves and treat everything and everyone like a substance to be "downed" are most likely very unhappy campers indeed.

So, all you madmen writers: You Rock!! Keep up the great job!!!

I did not watch episode 6 as closely as I should, but I read some of the other poster comments and on some counts I disagree. I don't think Don sleeps around, or is a man whore. If anything, we(viewers) have seen him time and time again, turn a women down or away. Is he a Saint? No, but he is discriminating about the women he chooses. Last season, his affair with the artist(I forget her name) how long that went on? I had the feeling this was a long term relationship, and except for Rachel coming into the picture and, of course, his wife, he was not sleeping with other women. (The last statement odd to be sure but in terms of the show accurate).

I think to categorize Don as a man-whore is missing something important about what Weiner is trying to show about this character. Also, I do not think the ending signaled a mental breakdown for Don, it was a moment of revelation. Where it will lead, I don't know.

As for the dog, Chauncy, yes it was a horrible moment. but take heart, at the moment, he/she is at home with its trainer eating and sleeping. The dog is okay, really it is.

This was a very disturbing episode for me - on many levels and for many different reasons. The dog - naturally (he seemed to have a little hop in his step when he turned and ran away - maybe he was happy to be done with the Ducksters?). Also, my heart broke when Don told Betz she looked "desperate". Bless her heart! Nonetheless - I will still watch this show because I am riveted I tell ya! Riveted! I have no doubt the writers (geniuses) have many surprises up their sleeves. I can't wait! Also - you guys are great - you give me so much to think about - keep up your great comments!

the second season kicked off really really slow, but this episode certainly
did have me laughing and freaking and left me in mild shock and
one again captured. what an amazing episode, what a brilliant show.
things are certainly gonna get wierd from here on.

there was so much cooking - don going crazy, betty going crazy,
peggy going crazy, pete is gonna go crazy and joan too (see episode 7 preview).
don is the real father figure, even grown up guys long for and
betty the woman men would kill for. having worked in advertising too,
i love the way history and reality has be sampled and respun into this.
mad men is somehow more compact than sopranos, which was hard to beat.
i hate the sexism but i guess that was life.
and the number with dog was pretty shocking too.

cant wait for next week, things are just waiting to explode.

Does anyone know what the song that was playing in the opening scene, when there were shots of Betty, Joan and Peggy getting dressed?

This season has been really slow, however getting better. The dog thing was quit horrific. Peggy looked very nice at the naughty club. Where's kid dam it???!!!!!! did i miss something? Don is sexy, dude probly has some kind of std though. ewwwww. With don and bobbie combined there's bound to be something funky brewing downstairs. poor poor bombshell betty. How come pete's wife isnt getting preg?

I agree with the poster who asked people to stop posting the same comments 20 times! Just say what you've got to say and then let others chime in!

That having been said... I have a lot of questions in my mind after this particular episode. I love this series, but I have to wonder if the writers/producers are veering into territory that is unrelentingly dark. There have been other wonderful series--- "Hill Street Blues" and "Twin Peaks" come to mind--- that lost their way because they became so completely sad, dark, mysterious and depressing that they became unwatchable.
In all seriousness, I can't think of a single character on this show that is really likeable or has much of a redeeming quality at all.

Don - is showing signs that he is a sociopath, or worse. He is utterly without a conscience and increasingly proves that he is capable of genuine cruelty. His comment last week (before the wreck with Bobbie) -- "I don't feel a thing" --- is the most telling thing that's come out of his mouth yet.

Betty - is absolutely my LEAST favorite character on this show, and has been since Day One. She is a depressing, childish, boring, robotic Barbie. She and Don have zero chemistry, and I cannot imagine how/why they got married. And her increasingly transparent loathing toward her own children is getting creepy.

Pete - is an insufferable little toad, gratingly obnoxious every time he opens his mouth, and IMHO it's only the brilliant actor playing him who makes him watchable at all.

Peggy - I had high hopes for this character but she's drowning in a morass of weirdness and the writers seem to be flailing around trying to figure out what to do with her. How about actually REVEALING something about her for once, instead of just piling on more strange little mysteries? And would it kill her to smile or show ANY form of emotion whatsoever? Can't they let her emote a little bit once in awhile?

JOAN - My favorite character and by far the most interesting, but so far this season she's had very little to do except wiggle her generous butt across the screen every once in awhile so the male characters will have something to react to. Why is she being ignored while we're forced to endure so much boring, insipid Betty?

John Slattery is terrific. The character of Salvatore could go so many places. I will be happy if I never see Bobbie again--- dear God, what an annoying character AND actress.
The first season did a much better job of making it an ensemble show. The little side stories about the different people--- what happened to those???
How many different women can Don screw? How many times can Betty flounce around looking pretty and thinking about whether she should flirt with someone? How many times can Peggy get her feelings hurt because the sexist men don't treat her equally? Let's GO somewhere with these folks, people.
Duck suddenly putting that beautiful dog out of the building was brilliant, by the way--- by far the most original thing in the entire episode. Yes, it was shocking but it said so much about this character, who has been such a cipher until now.
And pantyhose were invented in 1959. They just weren't made seamless and comfortable (and therefore widely popular) until the mid-60s. Peggy, working on Madison Avenue in NYC, would probably have access to them much sooner than your average Jane in the sticks. Do some homework before you complain about stupid stuff, folks!!!!!!

I agree with the poster who asked people to stop posting the same comments 20 times! Just say what you've got to say and then let others chime in!

That having been said... I have a lot of questions in my mind after this particular episode. I love this series, but I have to wonder if the writers/producers are veering into territory that is unrelentingly dark. There have been other wonderful series--- "Hill Street Blues" and "Twin Peaks" come to mind--- that lost their way because they became so completely sad, dark, mysterious and depressing that they became unwatchable.
In all seriousness, I can't think of a single character on this show that is really likeable or has much of a redeeming quality at all.

Don - is showing signs that he is a sociopath, or worse. He is utterly without a conscience and increasingly proves that he is capable of genuine cruelty. His comment last week (before the wreck with Bobbie) -- "I don't feel a thing" --- is the most telling thing that's come out of his mouth yet.

Betty - is absolutely my LEAST favorite character on this show, and has been since Day One. She is a depressing, childish, boring, robotic Barbie. She and Don have zero chemistry, and I cannot imagine how/why they got married. And her increasingly transparent loathing toward her own children is getting creepy.

Pete - is an insufferable little toad, gratingly obnoxious every time he opens his mouth, and IMHO it's only the brilliant actor playing him who makes him watchable at all.

Peggy - I had high hopes for this character but she's drowning in a morass of weirdness and the writers seem to be flailing around trying to figure out what to do with her. How about actually REVEALING something about her for once, instead of just piling on more strange little mysteries? And would it kill her to smile or show ANY form of emotion whatsoever? Can't they let her emote a little bit once in awhile?

JOAN - My favorite character and by far the most interesting, but so far this season she's had very little to do except wiggle her generous butt across the screen every once in awhile so the male characters will have something to react to. Why is she being ignored while we're forced to endure so much boring, insipid Betty?

John Slattery is terrific. The character of Salvatore could go so many places. I will be happy if I never see Bobbie again--- dear God, what an annoying character AND actress.
The first season did a much better job of making it an ensemble show. The little side stories about the different people--- what happened to those???
How many different women can Don screw? How many times can Betty flounce around looking pretty and thinking about whether she should flirt with someone? How many times can Peggy get her feelings hurt because the sexist men don't treat her equally? Let's GO somewhere with these folks, people.
Duck suddenly putting that beautiful dog out of the building was brilliant, by the way--- by far the most original thing in the entire episode. Yes, it was shocking but it said so much about this character, who has been such a cipher until now.
And pantyhose were invented in 1959. They just weren't made seamless and comfortable (and therefore widely popular) until the mid-60s. Peggy, working on Madison Avenue in NYC, would probably have access to them much sooner than your average Jane in the sticks. Do some homework before you complain about stupid stuff, folks!!!!!!

The Duck 's problem that drove him out of Y&R London was alcohol. Add to the botch he made of American Airlines in not connecting past his old LON buddy Shel, his ex remarrying, the son turning into a snot, and the poor (plump) daughter's heart breaking about her dad, the dog and the family; Duck goes and admits to Don Draper that he still can't figure out SC after 18 months. Duck looked like he was gonna cry. (And notice that Don had zero sympathy other than putting away the swords for now.)

Both guys are sitting on their respective flagpoles and a storm's on its way.....

Interesting how the Quack-up scene was set up. Duck goes to some stranger's (well, to us) office, asking for "papers" (huh?), only to gaze longingly at and SNIFF the whiskey that is somehow available in this underling's office. Chauncey with the long looks ... a truly Capra-esque (as in Frank Capra, "It's a Wonderful Life") moment. Just as our heart goes out to struggling Duck....just as we think Chauncey (Clarence the angel?) and Duck will go for a wholesome walk, so that Duck can get over his urge for a drink and see life differently, he cruelly sends Chauncey out the door. Oh, that playing with **our** choke collar! OW!

Draper's cracking up too. That bondage bit is just too many French and Italian movies -- as he mentioned La Notte. His taste in women has gone distinctly downmarket (and I LIKE Bobbie except she's a bit of a used mattress at her worst.) The last bit at the mirror--hold the symbolism, my brother the shrink's got a spot on the appointment book for DD. (After he saw this episode, he's waiting for the Draperman to take a flying leap from a tall building.)

Not remarked on unless I missed it. Both Betty and Don have a very bad habit of dressing rather scantily in front of their kids (forget the 15 yr. old lifeguards). I know that my dad would never be in front of me in a towel. (unfortunately would not remember because he passed away when I was quite young, but he was VERY old school.) Certainly my mom never in front of my brother was partly dressed except on the beach (and rather modestly so) until her last years of illness when we both cared for her. Calling Oedipus and Electra (not 225) anyone?

I do hope Peggy's burning her old wardrobe....I'll loan her the matches. As far as role models--plenty in movies--Roz Russell, Barbara Stanwyck and Joan Crawford. There were also quite a few in advertising Hey, who was Mary Wells' role model? Maybe Nan Findlow of JWT or Rena Bartos of McCann?

I do fault Weiner a bit in that he never allows us to feel much sympathy for ANY of the characters.

Producerbonnie, glad to know that I'm not the only one who sees SAB as an insipid jerk and bad Grace Kelly knock-off! She's a "bootleg" copy of Princess Grace, like those $3 CDs guys on the street corner try to sell! Hee!

ok, here is my take... I was APALLED that _ _ _ hole Duck released Chauncey out into the streets. However, I am hoping that the producers will be intelligent enough to bring Chauncey back for a rescue. In addition, I pray that this will have a happy ending and that Chauncey will be the office dog just like Peter wanted. I will just go ape _ _ _ _ if Chauncey isn't found safe...

To all those who will not watch this show because it shows the nasty truth about alcohol: what Duck did is not a gimick to get ratings or to shock people. Alcoholics put drinking ahead of their families, their jobs, their health, and yes, their pets, all the time. The fate of the dog isn't a PETA issue it's a painful example of the devastation and tragedy of alcoholism.

The way those who are abandoning the show feel is the way the husbands, wives, sons and daughters, mothers and fathers of alcoholics feel much of the time.

Kudos to the show for bringing the ugly truth of alcoholism home in such an emotional and compelling way.

I found Chauncey's abandonment upsetting. I'd love for us to see him again in a future episode but guess it won't go that way as hanging threads are "cooler." Yuck.

I also loved the "real world" bods of the 60s mannequins.

I thought Peggy did absolutely the right thing by showing up and acting cool and relaxed.

I thought Don suddenly saw his daughter as a possible Bobbie (or vice versa)-- and didn't like it. By reminding him of Bobbie, Bobbie becomes someone's daughter too.

I loved the double mirror bathroom shot. It was a perfect metaphor for Don's life. Don continues to have quick flashes of reality with his actions, then goes back out to do the same. It seems he and Pete are becoming quite sleezy. Do you think Bette will ever catch on?

We got panty hose in late '66 or '67... I remember a friends husband ordering not to ever wear anything else. Meaning a girdle with snaps to hold up regular hose. I suspect the panty hose may be part of a test market like the Relexacisor was for Peggy. Remember that epi when she tried it out to "Fly me to the moon"? They have to get womens opinions and reaction to a product before mass producing the product.

Quote:
By chesterton on September 2, 2008 4:03 PM

I don't know how it took so long for panty hose to come to my little circle of friends - I remember I had a pucci inspired girdle in 1966 and regular stockings, like my friends, still children - I think it was a year later that we got panty hose. (My OB-GYN father never approved of them, nor nylon undies - no air - he also didn't like scented bubble bath because he thought it was an irritant)

Besides is many personal problems, Don seems to be heading for a professional problem. As we all know, humor and TV took over advertising. Is there an ad on TV that isn't funny and isn't TV where the money's at? Yet on more than one occasion Don has decried humor and said that there has to be advertising for serious people etc. Same thing with his attitude toward the young. It seems like his profession is passing him bye.

Now for his personal problems; jesus where to begin. I simply can't believe he told betty that her bikini was "desperate". If he had just left it as that he didn't want people oggling her that could've flown as a compliment. But no, he had to slap her across the face.

Meanwhile, Don simply can't stop mixing biz with pleasure. Gee, what could go wrong?! Didn't he learn anything from the dept. store woman and the acct they lost (that cooper called him on). I can only imagine how the latest will backfire. Putting this together with his misreading of the future of advertising and I have to wonder about his professional future let alone is personal one.

He never seems to consider that he lives in a glass house.

I truly love this show - it is the first one in a long time that keeps me thinking about it long after it airs. I also love reading all the posts... it makes me feel better to know that others are analyzing this show also. When i was growing up, I had a aunt that was a working woman. She always was dressed to the nines with perfect hair and makeup. I adored and looked up to her. She worked in an office for 20+ years. I can't help but think of her as i watch each episode and i wish she were alive today to tell me how she was treated and find out what she thinks about this series. I see bits of her in Joan and Peggy. She was the only woman in our family to drive and own her own car. I don't think my kids can imagine that today. Anyway.. love it.

This will probably be a an unpopular comment, but...does anyone else feel, that while she is totally gorgeous, J. Jones is not a very good actress?...especially compared to everyone else on the series...just wondering....

I wonder why the writers would give Don's newest victim--Bobbie.. the same name as his son--Bobby?? Any one have any ideas or am I being too anal??
I agree with Mad Men_Maniac.. I have read bloggers say they will boycott the show because a dog was abused, but I did not see that being blogged when human beings were being abused.. Geesh, Pete does not even greet the Black elevator operator when he enters the elevator to leave.. It is like he just sees right past him..
Don realizes he is basically a prostitute as his dead mother was and he is so out of control. .he seriously needs to figure out what he is doing.. I don't think he is a bad guy underneath his baggage..

just because YOU got pantyhose in 63, 64 65 whatever ... means NOTHING

read my lips ... Peggy is in advertising which means they get products way before they are actually on the market and she was probably asked to test them

How much does Don look like Jack Kerouac? Sexy Beast!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Subterraneans.gif

ProducerBonnie: I loved all your character commentary. I agree with it all. Don't you think it's ironic that right after you hollered about people posting 20 times, your commentary showed up twice? I'm not criticizing -- I just think it was pretty funny. I agree with you about the pontification that goes on.

CadMen: You're right. The MadMen writers had a REASON for showing Peggy trying on pantyhose. Nothing is left to chance. Something's coming. I'm thinking "L'Eggs".

Katie - For so many people to hate Betty, it means January Jones is a brilliant actress.

@katie: I don't know......it's hard to distinguish whether it's her "acting style" or that IS the character.

Have never seen January Jones in anything besides this series for comparison. I'd have to say it's the character, which means she's quite good.

To me, Jon & John (Hamm and Slattery, that is)steal the show acting-wise!

To be fair, Jan Jones is a really good actress! Had to be for me to wanna smack her character on a weekly basis!

Someone asekd about the Utz potato chips- I lived in the Allentown PA area for a while and they still sell them there... I think it's kind of a regional brand like Old Dutch potato chips (from Minnesota). I love my chips!

I really didn't like the Decemberists song at the beginning. The band is great, but it sounded so modern and out of place with such a meticulously period appropriate show.

Other than that, it was fun to see another side of Peggy at the end of the show. She looked awkward as all hell, but it was nice to see her tart it up a little.

A comment on the Pantihose. I worked for the Kayser-Roth Hosiery company way back when. Pantihose may have been invented in 1959, but they did not become a mass market popular garment until 1965-66 when we started wearing mini-skirts. L'eggs were developed in 1970, No Nonsense in 1972 (they were a K-R product). There is no way Peggy would have any samples of pantihose in 1962. Certainly not the color or quality of what she looks like she is putting on. In 1962 women wore stockings with girdles, panty girdles or garter belts. In fact we wore them well into the late 1960's. Trust me, even the samples of pantihose we had in the early 1970's were poor quality and in ugly colors. So they had better go back and do some more studying. Just because something was invented before their time line doesn't mean it was generally available to the consumer.

People need to leave the dog thing alone. It's like a show, duh. The dog is fine. Some rich-ass manhattanite will probably fall in love and steal the damn thing!

Favorite line of Episode 6:

Don, to Roger: "Here's your cigarette, now be on your way."

HAAAAAA!!!!!!

donnac, how intriguing that your brother is a shrink and thinks Don is about to crack up - tell us more! Has he shared any other professional observations about Don or other characters? I'd love to hear what a professional thinks!

And pet lovers, it's supposed to upset us that Duck let the dog go. As someone commented above, that's the reality of how low alcholism will make a person sink.

Also, Don uses humiliation to control Betty's behavior. That's why he called her bikini outfit desperate, which is meant to shame and embarrass her into compliance - rather than acting jealous. Men still say things like that to control the appearance and conduct of their wives or girlfiriends. Another example is to tell a woman she's making a fool of herself when she's having "too good a time" in a public or social setting.

A little too much hopping in and out of the sack for my tastes this season. As I have posted elsewhere, too many unlikable characters. One is fine (ala JR Ewing in "Dalls") but here there are just too many to loathe. Especially Roger Sterling, (Draper is running him a close second this season); and Pete's journey off the marital fidelity path has him in third. That Jimmy character is appallingly difficult to watch (he's not only a jerk, he's not very attractive either); his wife is even worse, a horny tramp who apparently sold HER soul long ago to the lowest bidder. Fred Rumsen (now there's a totally boring character); so is Francine and her husband. Ken Cosgrove seems to be there only for his "leering" ability. Not all men were rakes in the sixties and not all women the subject of sexual harassment. This thing is beginning to turn into a "Who's sleeping with Whom!" My guess is that the ever-perfect Grace Kelly knock off, Betty, will take up with that bland guy from the stable. Don will continue his conquest across NYC to see how many women he can bed, and Roger (if he lives) will do likewise. Meantime, Pete will stray again and Trudy will finally give him the boot! Again, this is moving too slow and turning into Musical beds!

The characters are not meant for you to find perfection in. Haven't you seen the Sopranos? Tony is not the best guy in the world. He's got panic attacks, problems with the family, etc. He's meant to be a honest portrayal, faults and all. It's the same with the characters here in this show. I think despite all the negative comments, this is the best show on TV. You know why? Because it's got all of you talking. IT's got you waiting to find out what comes next on the next episode. It's got us trying to figure out about who these characters are and what they're thinking, etc. Do you see some stupid sitcom on NBC doing that? No, because that's shitty TV. This is good TV. So stop your bitching!!!

Andrea01: Stop taking this so personally. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine happens to be what I stated. If you think this is good TV, fine. However, it sounds dear as though you are ready to slug it out with whomever you can (that crack about bitching), and I am sorry you are apparently having such a bad day. Remember, this is a public forum and people have differing opinions. Hope your day gets better because you are obviously in a mood! I don't care to fight and that comment about bitching was meant to do just that! Anyway, I respect your opinion and I ask you to do likewise.

Well somebody's going to "off" themselves and it's certainly NOT going to be our Don. I'm thinking Duck's going to go on a bender, get caught at work or something, and end up dead somehow. And the ones saying Don might have spent time in a loony bin... I think they're on to something.

Look at DryManhattan's post at 5:13 pm. Oh sure... it's not EVEN 5:13 yet. This site is screwed up.

No offense to anyone, people, but may I just state that if you DON'T agree with someone's opinions, that is fine. But attempting to start a fight or demanding that someone "Stop your bitching!" is not the way to disagree with another's opinion. (And let's not say it was a joke, it's rude to address others in this manner.) I notice that there is a poster here who seems angry and upset (the one who is mad that everyone is mentioning the dog, and also that the show is moving slowly). These are merely opinions of posters and this is merely a television show, NOT real life! If you want to disagree with someone, there is a MUCH better way to do it than demanding they "STOP bitching," or telling us "duh, get over the dog," or some such thing. If you disagree fine, but it is not necessary to so rudely state that you do. I for one disagree with a lot of posts (including the one wherein a poster claims that Jack Kerouac and Draper look alike). However, I don't feel it necessary to demand that the poster STOP posting such nonsense. I hope you all see where I am going with this. Let's keep these boards fun and light. It is so tempting to lambaste someone for their opinion because we are under assumed names and on a message board. Let's try and resist that apparently overpowering temptation.

Katie: I agree and stated as much under another topic, but it seems that when you politely post here, some troll or other pounces. Anyway, Jones hasn't been given that much to work with and although she is an attractive Grace Kelly knock off (they wouldn't give Draper a homely wife, right?) her character is bland and a bit too perfect. Just my opinion.

....Visan - that was very funny!

andrea01: Your icon is interesting. Why that?

"And the way the ending shot panned out so you saw him in 2 frames, brilliant!!

This also could allude to the episode title "Maidenform:" remember, the real ad line was "Lifts and separates." Too cool.

.....michelangela, there is something wrong with your post, technically-speaking....can you repost? thanks...

....Sixties Survivor - ANOTHER brilliant parallel - I remember that line very well and didn't think of that.

BTW - I remember Ayds! I used to steal my parent's supply all the time because they were more like taffy than a diet aid....

Seems like yesterday! The wax paper, the box.... something tells me they weren't so dietetic....

Dry Manhattan: I thought they tasted awful! That and Metracal! Blech! It's a wonder anyone could stand that stuff! Just my opinion, there maybe people who really liked them. I remember tasting my mother's Ayds and Metracal and thinking, how can she stand this stuff?!

...... you find out all kinds of things about yourself through this board. people here don't mince words!

Believe me, I ALWAYS knew I didn't like that stuff. I didn't need this board to find it out! Ah well, whatever! I guess you were referring to me, perhaps not. Some posters get a little over the top here. Time for dinner.

jamm54, luvmadmen, scfan...

I just spent part of my afternoon reading posts under the thread, "Mad Men Season Two Predictions" posted by Clayton Neuman back in April of this year. This season had not started (July '08) and everyone was speculating like mad.

Do you remember posting your ideas back then? Please! Go back....the posts are hilarious exaggerations of your imaginations and excitement about the upcoming season.

When I saw how way off the track those predictions were (not just yours--everyones), I made a commitment to keep my speculations in check. It's too obvious that Weiner and his staff are waaayyyy ahead of us! :)

Someone back then had a real cute icon with lipstick and a set of lips. cute...! Wasn't me...I had the lurking down pat back then...lol...There was even someone named 'grinandbearit' and Jimmy and Bobbi didn't appear until this season!

Freedom of speech in america. I can say bitch all i want!!!!! Bitch bitch bitch.

Bocaratonfan - good observation about Don using humiliation to control Betty. I wonder how low this character is going to go??
Rightasrain - I agree with your earlier post about too many unlikeable characters-- I think we're on the same page.
Slanger - your icon is SO cute!
Great show and it really does keep you coming back... I just hope to see a little more depth to the stories and characters as the season unfolds. I hope to see some side stories about the other characters, too... not just Boring Betty! :-)

@greytone: I'll have to go back and look. Hey, I can't even remember last week! I didn't even know I wrote anything. Will cycle by that topic (and put myself through some cringe-time) about how non-prophetic I am with the cloudy crystal ball!

Producerbonnie...I agree there are many characters' whose backstories should be explored other than SAB. I'm really tired of her bitchassness!

I just rewatched this episode and it's the madonna-whore complex that has been around since the victorian ages. It's like wives have to be madonnas and then there are whores. Like Jackie and Marilyn. This is also the advent of new relationships where women can be both madonna and whore rolled up in one. It's fascinating. power to the femmes!!!

Producerbonnie: Yes, we are on the same page, I think. Also a bit tired of the negative language on this thread (by the apparent queen of the "B" word), I hope you and others agree. Just because one CAN use poor vocabulary does not mean they SHOULD! Shows a real lack of class.

Okay- about the UTZ...Earlier Pete said, at his BBQ that he had a whole case of J&B because they were clients and he got it for free. That is why the Draper's had a bag.

the look on Jan Jone's face when Don said, "It's desperate."
THAT proved to me that that woman can act.

"I remember tasting my mother's Ayds and Metracal and thinking, how can she stand this stuff?!"

Ayds. Now, that's a product that had an unfortunate end.

That scene at the end of Ep 6 was some kind of a trigger for Don.

Here's the deal about the dog: he will wait outside by the door til his master returns.That is unless his master leaps out the window...which crossed my mind.

CoyoteQT: If Duck is written out of MM, I would not care. Never thought his character very interesting. They could have done without him altogether in my opinion. He is drab. His dog shows more life and is more interesting!

best episode of the season, hands down. Revealed the most bout everyone.

I just got a chance to watch the series a couple of days ago and now I'm hooked!!! This past episode: I def have to agree with iwuvJoan. More is coming out and it's awsome. I haven't read everybodies posts. I guess there is a lot of grief over the dog, though. You got to remember, this is the 60s we are taken to. Dogs were not even included on the families list of priorities like they are today. It was an act of imbarassment. So what. In reality, the dog is fine, was never treated poorly, and made more money in that episode then I make a year. take it easy JB129.

I just got a chance to watch the series a couple of days ago and now I'm hooked!!! This past episode: I def have to agree with iwuvJoan. More is coming out and it's awsome. I haven't read everybodies posts. I guess there is a lot of grief over the dog, though. You got to remember, this is the 60s we are taken to. Dogs were not even included on the families list of priorities like they are today. It was an act of imbarassment. So what. In reality, the dog is fine, was never treated poorly, and made more money in that episode then I make a year. take it easy JB129.

woops!

I love animals too but the scene with the dog didn't upset me that much. I mean, if they showed him sitting there sadly with those big droopy eyes as if to say "please don't leave me", that would be different. But Chauncy ran off happily as if to say "thank god! I'm free". I think the dog was happy and I think that is what the Mad Men people wanted you to think when he pranced out of the scene.

Re: January Jones's acting - you can see her in a small part in the movie "Love Actually". (A wonderful British-Christmas-romantic-comedy type movie). She did an ok job - but I agree - when Don told Betz she looked "desparate" - the look on her face broke my heart.

January Jones was a model prior to acting, but she is certainly holding my attention.

This is my first time posting a comment on this site (or any site for that matter).
One thing that I thought of about the whole Chauncey tragedy is that I think Duck was thinking of doing something much worse when he reached for the alcohol.
I think he was thinking of killing Chauncey. I had read this before: that alchol can frequently be toxic to dogs and is considered a poison. The way he reached for it and looked at Chauncey makes me believe this is what the director and writer's intent was.
But he couldn't go that far and so he lets him go.
So if you hated Duck before, you can hate him some more now.
But I don't hate the writers for showing this. The best writers bring out the most emotions in viewers and the angst in the viewers is testament to how great the writing is.
What a terrific show!

just saw the actress who played Rachel Mencken on Sons of Anarchy last night...pretty sure it's her and that she's going to be a regular...

From the response, Duck's ditching of Chauncey was a master stroke. It seems to me that that's what hit home with you all the most.

Since time passes between the episodes, I wouldn't expect to see him again. Think of him as being out in the Pine Barrens just like the Russian in The Sopranos.

I really hated the use of that Decemberists song in the beginning. It was so out of place and completely ruined the feel of the entire episode. It's all anyone can talk about on the IMDB Mad Men board, and I am most certainly not alone in my disappointment. Someone commented that they expect to hear Ghostface Killah in a future episode, and although that made me laugh, it's not far off the mark. And if it had to be a modern band, must it be an annoyingly smug hipster band like The Decemberists? Please!

yes, maggie siff (rachel menken) is now on"sons of anarchy" on FX. january jones was also in "we are marshall", small part, she plays matthew fox's characters wife. also utz is still sold here in new jersey. and finally good news about chauncey, after duck kicked him out of the office, he walked up madison ave. there he was spotted by a sixteen year old boy named donald trump. yound donald brought chauncey home to his parents palacial 6000 sq. foot penthouse.chaucey ended up living in the lap of luxury with his own personal chef and massage therapist.there now,do we all feel better about poor little chaucey.

yes, maggie siff (rachel menken) is now on"sons of anarchy" on FX. january jones was also in "we are marshall", small part, she plays matthew fox's characters wife. also utz is still sold here in new jersey. and finally good news about chauncey, after duck kicked him out of the office, he walked up madison ave. there he was spotted by a sixteen year old boy named donald trump. yound donald brought chauncey home to his parents palacial 6000 sq. foot penthouse.chaucey ended up living in the lap of luxury with his own personal chef and massage therapist.there now,do we all feel better about poor little chauncey.

To MicheleS in particular - you are exactly right about the pantyhose! There was no such animal in '63. Surprised that no one else picked up on this and even more surprised at the production staff for this gaffe. Up until now they have been just about perfect.
Also - the bikini thing.......I know that Dr. No came out in '62 or '63 and Ursula Andress was a smash in her bikini. But I was a Jersey shore girl of 16 and 17 years old in those years and even with youth, good figures, and a desire to be on the cutting edge of fashion, I and my peers were still in one piece suits. Maybe the two piece (with a higher rise bottom) appeared more commonly around '64. At least in my neck of the woods............

Ta! Sorry this is late, but Lots going on in Detroit - our Mayor plead guilty and is GOING TO JAIL - woo-hoo! And I'm still basking in the glow of Sarah Palin's speech, so lots of blogging today having nothing whatsoever to do with MadMen.

But I digress.....here's Attention Deficit Theater, Episode 6. Enjoy!!

http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/7808/50/

I was so upset about Chauncey, too. Heartbroken. But I understand this was written to show us how Duck feels, not to present a position on animal abandonment. Perhaps Duck didn't want ANY reminders of his former family and life. Perhaps he can't handle a dog. It seemed he was almost going to offer the dog to Pete, but when Pete mentioned keeping a dog in the office, Duck didn't. So, maybe it just was really painful for Duck. I had to keep asking my husband questions like, "Did Chauncey find a home?" And, so I would sleep, he answered, "Yes. Someone brought him home and he has a perfect life right now with a new family." We went through that several times.......

When Sally said "she won't talk" it reminded me of when Bobbie insisted (and lying) "she wasn't talking." I think Don probably struggles with the compartments of his life. Little Sally, full of love and admiration for her father, is probably hard to take when Don is living a double/triple life. Out of the mouth of babes.

Poor Peggy! I was in her shoes once. I totally regret it. I can imagine how she feels----how do you compete when you don't know the rules and the rules were created to keep you out? How can she win?

I really find myself in these characters. I was adopted when I was little in 1966, so I think of Peggy as a mother figure for me. My adopted mother was so much like Betty. I find myself more forgiving of her now. My dad wasn't like Don, but I know he had his secrets. And probably his secretary from time to time. My mother was always crazy jealous whenever a female called for him on the phone, etc.......

Anyone else out there relating?

Let's all pray for Chauncey! :)

Bocaratonfan, who I hope is staying dry (as in out of the tropical storms!): Thanks for the comments--my brother the shrink in summary: "he's going downhill fast" and that DD will be going out the window--not if, when. His focus is on DD's double life and the fear he has of being found out--DD cannot keep it up. The Bobbie bondage (and general nastiness to her) is that other side (father's?) coming out. Maybe the Army will find him out and DD will be vacationing in Leavenworth. (More to come) BTW, my brother is an M.D., board certified psychiatrist, in practice over 20 years in Northern NJ.

This epi I found Duck's revelations and impending crackup very interesting. Sunday may be Sal's turn.

But hey, this is fiction.

Anyone notice that EVERYONE on the show is in a crisis of some type--distracted and off their feed? The proof: the Maidenform creative was half-assed. No one there has the nerve (I think DD did at one point) to nicely talk with the client over lunch and move him off the half-baked idea so that the agency doesn't spin its wheels on something off strategy. (Peggy knew that and the Clearasil research cold--the only one awake)

Laurie B.,
That ADT is hilarious. I love the part when Duck says Hot water, blankets anyone about being 100 degrees outside.
The other one that had me howling was Joan telling Peggy to dress like a tramp it did wonders for her.
Thanks for the site!

Laurie B--ADT is funnier now. A little more off the wall and less a synopsis of the previous show. An ... interesting evolution.

I hope I am not alone in thinking that Draper is not a slut, nor that he is even particularly lascivious. Draper's cheating is not about sex, trying to "get away with anything," nor is it tawdry exactly. Draper is looking for an equal, someone who can relate to him in a kind of cathartic way (sex is incidental), someone who respects his work, someone who can hold their own, and not be constantly disappointed in him. Betty is not this at all: she doesn't care about his work, yet she wants all of the status and trappings from it. She is not his equal, but calibrates her happiness exclusively on attention from him, and the lifestyle he provides. She has no life outside of her household (although Arthur may soon emerge). In short, Betty is not his ally, but someone who relies on him for everything she does and feels, which is realistic pressure to put on Draper- she wants him to be mechanized in a way. By contrast, Midge does not care about possessions, does not rely on anyone, has her own life, career and interests, and Draper would sense the equality between them in terms of attitude toward attachment. And incidentally, her bohemian lifestyle is not too far from that of the hobo, which he admires. Mencken is probably a closer parallel to Draper in terms of his current social position, so they are near professional equals, she had obvious admiration for his work and talent, and she did not need him. Bobbie is probably the closest to Draper, in that she is self-made (humble beginnings as a prostitute, and remember that Mencken inherited her father's busniess, and did not have to fight her way up the ladder), and that she feels little attachment to most things but her own well-being (which is not necessarily a bad thing). However, that Bobbie gossiped about him breached the unspoken understanding, possibly relegating their interactions to a more tawdry level and causing Draper remorse. These three women have no expectation of him, see him not as provider, but equal, and thus do not put pressure on him to be the perfect man, which is the image Betty wants from him.

In a similar vein, the issue of disappointment is what fueled the dismissal of Duck's dog. Think about the parallels between this and the scene with Draper's daughter in the bathroom. Draper's family is utterly helpless without him; the risk of his disappointing them is great (since they depend on his success and happiness for their own happiness and chance for success). His daughter's unconditional love and remark that she wouldn't talk immediately sent Draper into remorse for his indiscretion, seeing the potential disappointment his daughter would feel if she knew about it. He sent her away, in part because he couldn't face her, but almost as a merciful gesture to her, as in "don't look at daddy, daddy makes mistakes, I don't deserve that kind of love." Duck's helpless, unconditionally loving dog was released in a very analogous attempt at being humane, as he could not stomach letting his dog see him self-destruct.

At one point, Don appeared to not be a very promiscuous man. But after the revelation about Ms. Random House, he may have been sluttier than I first thought. Not a complaint on my part. Don's sexuality and strong libido have been one of the best features of Mad Men!

I did NOT like his being "good" in the beginning of the season. His faithfulness was a complete bore! Those first 2 shows left me underwhelmed and highly pissed at Don being castrated, emasculated and de-balled. By the third show, well hell, he returned to the beloved Mack Daddy of Mad Men. Fantastic!

Indie, you are being very perceptive re DD's character in examining the pressure he is under in "seeking perfection". But if he is looking for an equal, he's doing a poor job of it. Watch the track of this storm. We are seeing DD in conflict, suddently not knowing what he wants in a woman.

I believe that where the show is going is that the compartmentlization of his life--and others--are in system failure.

Let's stay with the Draper women.

**In choosing Betty, he knew he wanted a perfect, "stainless" , suitable for a respectable upper middle class suburban wife, the polar opposite of what he grew up with on the farm or his birth mother. So when he sees Betty in seductive clothing (lingerie, bikini) he goes into cognitive dissonance>anger>loss of libido.

**In choosing other women, he goes for "outsiders" like him. Midge--definitely less respectable, bohemian, sexually free but not slutty (at least in our modern eyes), but note that she lost interest in him, perhaps because all she could see in him was the respectable ad man walking on the wild side. Rachel--his attempt to bring respectability and sexuality together--what they shared was being outsiders in their worlds, but that failed due to her common sense and his growing lack of control over his double life.

**Now with Bobbie we are getting closer to the dirt. Bobbie is only marginally respectable, and DD's behavior is getting extreme--tying her up, for instance, even before the revelations of her talking about him.

Let me add something my brother the shrink said last night when he had a chance to re-view the show. Quote: "Doesn't he know that her husband is a "loaded gun"? We are watching Don Draper self-destruct." DD always liked to play the edges, but a married, slutty woman with a impulse control-deficient husband is a lot different than Midge-the 1960 boho.

DD's sitting on a flagpole, and the storm's a- coming.

With greatest respect to all - can we PLEASE leave the subjects of the dog and Peggy's pantyhose? I think everything that can be said about them, has been said, a million times.

I cringe with the way don asks his wife to step into the other room as if he is her employer

Well he couldn't very well call their mother a trashy whore in front of the children, could he?

.....about Don and Betty Draper, and the way he treated her.... i'd say the first person pointing fingers is usually the one with the most to hide.

This show was all whore/Madona. In the ad women are black or white, Bobbie vs. Betty, Peggy night vs. Peggy day. The daughter used the line Don wanted to hear from the slut Bobbie-so how does he process that? He sees his daughter as a person which may make him see a slut as a person... It's not integrating for him. Plus the fact that in the whore /madonna world guess where he himself falls. Could the apple have landed next to the tree?

The dog: Duck is a desperate phony. The dog is fine.

All this self-righteousness about the dog is astounding. Chauncey barked once at Duck, then went on his way - the dog wasn't worried. He was let loose in Manhattan, for heaven's sake - probably found a new human before he came to the first red light.

Duck was reminded of his old life when looking at Chauncey and he wanted to break old ties - give the guy a break. His ex-wife is an iceberg and his 2 kids are selfish smartassess. Being an alcoholic is not a hanging offense and back then, there was little help for it. Also, I believe Duck was a war veteran - lots of those guys came back and developed drinking problems and I for one will not condemn them for it. We sent them to hell to fight for us and they gave up what should have been the best years of their lives for this country. There was no recognition of post traumatic stress syndrome at that time but Duck reminds me of a lot of my school friends' dads who had been in WW II.

Poor Betty - I know a lot of you don't like her, but every week I just wonder what her home life was like. Her family certainly didn't give her any self-esteem - look at all the stuff she puts up with from Don, as if she thinks she doesn't deserve better. I hope she wore that swimset to the pool, but I bet she didn't.

Bobbi and Don's bedroom was disturbing to me - not the dog being set free. The psychological warfare between those two was downright scary. Don looked at her with murder in his eyes and she just got more kittenish - disturbing. I wonder what the relationship between Bobbi and Jimmy is like.

Laurie B.
I was driving home today and it was a hot day, suddenly I envisioned Duck saying,"Hot water bottles, blankets anyone. I know! " I howled again. That ADT is so great! Thanks for the laugh!

Hey!
Congrats to regertz, Auburn Annie, Sizzie and Dry Manhattan!

Enjoy the spotlight! I always enjoy your voices...:)

I'm with greytone,
Congrats to regertz, Auburn Annie, Sizzie and Dry Manhattan! Hey Dry Manhattan are you going to drop your Manhattan glass for your mug full of whisky?

I'm with greytone,
Congrats to regertz, Auburn Annie, Sizzie and Dry Manhattan! Hey Dry Manhattan are you going to drop your Manhattan glass for your mug full of whisky?

Yeah I saw that, congrats, are you getting the whisky mug?

Swanky K...
...the omission was unintentional...

Congrats to you, too!

Ep 7 ought to be good. The gloves are off now for Bobbie and maybe even Jimmy. DD has bitten off more than he can chew when he should have just sat back and enjoyed the ride.

Well, it's hailed by the Mad Men forum that DD is better as a bad boy. But, I'm wondering what this recognition in the mirror is going to bring up. I'm sure we'll see more of his hidden past. I wish the women would start unfolding too with their past.

Well, it's hailed by the Mad Men forum that DD is better as a bad boy. But, I'm wondering what this recognition in the mirror is going to bring up. I'm sure we'll see more of his hidden past. I wish the women would start unfolding too with their past.

Well, it's hailed by the Mad Men forum that DD is better as a bad boy. But, I'm wondering what this recognition in the mirror is going to bring up. I'm sure we'll see more of his hidden past. I wish the women would start unfolding too with their past.

Well, it's hailed by the Mad Men forum that DD is better as a bad boy. But, I'm wondering what this recognition in the mirror is going to bring up. I'm sure we'll see more of his hidden past. I wish the women would start unfolding too with their past.

I think that Don doesn't expect to live long. His whole life is a facade. He's not enjoying any part of it. He's a phony in every aspect - his affairs with his women, his life at home. I agree that he's looking for connection but cannot, not necessarily because of a function of him or the women, but because of the epoque. It's a phony time. Roles are strictly defined, inside the office and out. No one, even children, can't be themselves. It's truly unfortunate. But the intro of the show shows him falling down, down the big buildings of madison avenue. The show is about deconstructing restraints of the 50s and early 60s. It's about how the conformity and rigidity of the period was confining and how it leads to people being unhappy with their lives.

On a personal level, Don is dealing with this. But he also is dealing with the fact that he abanoned his "real life" in pursuit of his new life. He can't be himself even with himself.

Thanks everyone! I have no idea what I'm getting (would love the mug) but I'm thrilled. Can't wait until Sunday night!

I think the dog is going to return several times in future episodes. You may see him looking in from the outside or turning a corner. Definitely a metaphor. These people are so unhappy and I am so HOOKED!

.....You guys are too kind...

Actually, my first thought was, "Of all the....??"

I feel bad that the one comment chosen, of all the different things I wrote, will be taken out of context as just a harsh slam of John Hamm's acting.....(a Hamm Slam?)

Obviously, a lot of intelligent people are spending time here, so we know everyone is doing an incredible job. I wouldn't want to be misunderstood.

Unfortunately, my new concern is the huge crowd of torch-wielding villagers on their way here right now with rotten vegetables.

Or the "Get it on, John" police with a big, fat citation... "Ma'am, are you slamming the Hamm? I'm going to have to cite you....."

...oh and also, thanks for all the great and funny comments. what a great group of writers.

Greytone- Thanks! I Have been away from the blog a few days and was excited to see one of my post! What fun! This blog is a great place to comment w/ other Maddicts. I love reading others posts and I always look forward to Attention Deficeit Theater. Thanks again Laurie B. for continuing to add the link to your posts. I'm getting to the point that I laugh sometimes watching the sho w b/c I know certain scenes have great ADT potential. Does anyone else do that?
Anywho..can't wait until Sunday night. I'll look forward to everyones post through next week.

Duck's a realistic character, I imagine, for his time and place--and not entirely unsympathetic.
Chopin47: that was a good insight about PTSD. Not all war vets had it (not all do now), but some do.
Anyway, I hope he stays.

Mad Men is one hell of a Rorschach inkblot test -- everyone reads into the subtext of the episodes and comes out with different readings and interpretations of what's going on. Which makes this blog so fascinating.

Anyone know who played the burlesque performer?

Not quite sure how these work, I am trying to respond to the person that didn't get Don and bobby in bed and why he left. don and the affair with Bobby seems to be all about him venting his control issues with her. She challenged him in business so he's in control of the affair. No nonsense about caring because it's only about sex for him. She tells him he's a lion then tells him about his reputation with other women about how good he is in bed. He becomes angry because he's trying to lead a secret life that people talk about him so he walks out on her and claims because she wouldn't stop talking when he told her to. In reality I think it was because he was exposed as a womanizer and he doesn't want anyone to know about his private life. The ending is him looking in the mirror and not being able to stand who he really is. His innocent little daughter is looking up at him as a hero and full of love, he knows he does not deserve. He doesn't understand I don't think that the facade of a happy life does not make it so

I am just catching up on missed episodes and have enjoyed checking out the period costumes. What caught my eye was the beginning scene and the girls getting ready for work. Peggy puts on panty hose!! Panty hose weren't introduced fully to the market until 1965 as seam-free. I have to say I was disappointed with that overisght.

Isn't it ironic that Maidenform should go for the "Marilyn" sexy look and Playtex should go for the "Jackie" comfortable fit when the word "maiden" connotes virginity and innocence, while the "play" in Playtex is closer to Playboys and Playmates. I wonder what the ad campaigns would have looked like if agencies had only the brand names to work with!

It still amazes me that Maidenform's "I dreamed that . . . in my Maidenform bra" ads lasted for so many years when they were so silly and belittled the customer.

A local clothing store just ran a newspaper ad claiming that the bra was the most important item in a woman's wardrobe. I never thought that before, but I can see the point.

Pantyhose in 1962 ?????

That kind of underwear was not even INVENTED until the late 1960s ... and really didn't catch on with the masses until the early 1970s.

Somebody either in wardrobe or in Directing really dropped the ball on that. Up until now, everything depicted in this show has been pretty accurate from a historical perspective.

Don't get me wrong. I still enjoy watching this show. I look at all of the blatant sexism and bigotry that goes on and it enlightens the entire world on how things really used to be within the office suites of Corporate America. If any of that foolishness still took place these days there would be lawsuits galore to where Sterling Cooper would eventually have to file bankruptcy and cease to exist. But those days were different because the era was different.

I just hope that the next time they show any of the characters in underwear, they keep it accurate. All they really need do is look at a Sears catalog from 1962 and they can easily see exactly what the styles were for household furniture, appliances, outerwear as well as underwear for all ages and genders. If Sears didn't have it ... then it obviously did not exist back in those days.

Let's keep it real.

I was wondering if the black and white Maidenform ad that showed Marilyn Monroe and Jackie O was really printed in a magazine. It looked cool.

Also I thought it was awful that Peggy was simply called Irene Dunn instead of either a Jackie or a Marilyn. Why not just call her Mouse? Was Irene Dunn a mousy girl?

I think this is one of the best episodes ever. I just watched it for the second or third time, and I always notice more. I had forgotten all about "High Flight" and looked it up on YouTube. Also. . . I agree about the panty hose. Excuse me, what year is this? It clangs, as I really don't think they were around 'til the mid-1960s. My sister came back from London in 1964 and wore them with extreme minis (she was quite fat), and everyone was appalled. No one knew what these awful immoral things were. The only thing I can think of is: (a) Peggy is a pod, (b) she's always ahead of the trend. This thread of plot may or may not blossom later. No garters or girdles were liberating, but that was the problem. Women were supposed to be trussed up like turkeys, so they would be less accessible (or men would have more fun getting to the good part). Anyway, I always love the fat, sloppy, howling strip-bar scenes in this show, and the swimsuit models hanging over their bikinis. We had ASSES then!!!

Will there be a third season of Mad Men?

I am a huge fan- but can only find Mad Men at 12midnight Sunday night --but are these NEW episodes are they repeats??? if they are repeats when is the NEW one's are???? please let me know-

These are repeats of Season 2, and midnight Sunday is the only time they're on. Season 3 supposedly starts sometime this summer.

I remember pantyhose coming out about 1968; I was a teenager and I think I got some for Christmas that year.