Hi JimK! Great question!! I can't even begin to speculate on how this will go. The writers keep suprising us. The title good be buried deep in the plot, and not so obvious to us. I can't wait to find out, and, now, we have to wait 2 weeks!!

Thanks. Don't be afraid to speculate. What's Don going to do?

Hi,
I posted yesterday about what I thought I saw at the end of this last episode. I must apologize that I must have dozed off, and saw another show going.
But, it does get me going onto this thread. Okay it didn't happen, but it could.
I thought I saw Don getting let out of a taxi in front of a brownstone apt. I thought he was going to visit another one of his 'women'.
Don is the type to just stay away from Betty until she can call the next shot. He might stray a bit while he stays in Manhattan, but he will live in a hotel, alone.
Don and Peggy share secrets, so he may have some contact with Peggy outside of SC.
Don won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. He will adjust slightly to weather thru this one.
Perhaps Peggy and Don will evolve into honestly thru their connection.

I think Betty was especially great in this episode, but I think after she has time to think about everything, where is she gonna go? If she divorces Don, she only has experience as a model, and I think she is supposed to be almost 30 on the show, so back then, at that age, she probably couldnt do much modeling any more, and I dont think women got as much out of a divorce as they do today, so for that time, I dont think she would have many options. Maybe a couple seasons ahead she would feel different, but it would be a hard decision to make in 1962.

I think women got a lot *more* out of a divorce in those days. Especially if he makes good money, and he was the cheater. There were no "no fault" divorce laws yet. You had to have proof of cheating, which is why Betty was looking so hard through his things. Without proof, it would be very hard to get a divorce unless Don admitted it in open court.

Alimony and child support were the norm; judges (nor anyone else) would expect the mother of two small children who was cheated on by her wealthy spouse to go to work. She would pretty much continue on as she is now, but would be eligible to start looking for a new husband. Which was usually encouraged by the last husband so he could quit paying alimony! (Plus, the judge would probably award the house to her, so the children wouldn't lose their continuity.)

Totally agree princesssally. Betty doesn't have many good options and that will help Don convince her not to split.

I thought that Betty knew about Don's infidelity before the comments from Jimmy, but maybe not. Maybe if Don gets divorced and Rachel comes back into the picture, the two of them can get together again- that seemed like the most in love couple on the show. I do feel badly for Betty however.

Rachel is history I think. I don't think her last opinion of Don ("you're a coward,") in season 1 was helped much by finding him at Sardi's obviously catting around with Bobbi, another tough, leggy, jewish, brunette. She appeared pretty disgusted.

The divorse will be plausible; however, I think Betty represents the real "lost of innocence" of the time ('60). She is somehow a big child, playing House, with frustrations of course, because she is a grown-up, but her perception of reality, Her Reality, has always been a little fairyland-like. The acceptance of the truth, that Don was and has always cheeted on her, which she has always known in the deepest places of her mind, needs to change her. She will accept him back and she will grow up and maybe the marriage will deteriorate a little bit more, but perhaps they will grow up to tell themselves the truth: life is not perfect and confese their demmons to each other. The alternative: she divorses him, becomes an alcoholic, kill herself, and the writers go and find a new love interest for Don.

I was going to say that Don could always play the mental illness card with Betty, as she was seeing a therapist, which in those days probably wasn't very common. He could insist that she is blowing the slightest off-color remark, but an infamous comedian, who's very schtick is that kind of remark.

But Don probably needs to tread carefully, if there was a divorce, and lawyers got involved, his true identity might be exposed.

He should cut her loose, get an apartment in the city, cut the alimony check every month, and chase all the tail he wants.

Maybe Don can use his natural talents to become a gigolo! I'm sure ladies will be willing to pay big bucks for the Full Don Draper Treatment! LOL!

Visan in the house! Now that's what I'm talking about!

Don, with the exception of Bobbie, always chooses women he makes a "spiritual" connection with. That we've seen. He's not the type to bed girls from the office. Nor others indiscriminately, even when offered, like the Chinese girl at the restaurant or the non-horsey twin.

Anybody else notice in the sneak peek at Six Months Leave that as an alias, Don uses the name Tilden Katz? Rachel's husband's name?

Ritt- great catch about Katz! I wondered about that.

Yes, Don is no Roger. But he loves seduction--think of how he got the fur coat to impress Betty.

But what will Don do now? I can't believe this marriage is totally toast. He crafted a clever revenge to pay Roger back for hitting on Betty. (The oyster & martini death march.)

What will he come up with now?

Thank you, Ritt, I could not make out what name he gave (my hearing is getting bad - another perk of growing old). That is very interesting that he chose that name and funny, too. I loved seeing those three, Don, Freddy, and Roger, in their fedoras, trying to bribe their way into where ever the heck that was.

Was it just me, or did Don look quite happy go lucky in that scene, like he hadn't a care in the world? I wonder, does this next episode take place 6 months after his quarrel with Betty??

Ritt: Are you kidding me? Tilden Katz? OMG...

@Laurie: My jaw dropped when Don dropped that name in the preview!

Don's got Rachel on the brain, alright! As a 'shipper, I'd like to think he's always had Rachel on the brain! Ha! Thing is...I know the writers are more than capable of bringing Rachel back on our screen and "underneath" Don. But since the actress is on another show, I'm doubtful she'll make a comeback, this season anyway.

I agree with someone upstream who pointed out that Don loves seduction. It took him months to seduce Rachel and even then the sexy bastard made her beg for it!

Don's also got a bit of gangsta in him! Maybe his next move is to break Unfunny Comic's legs! That'd be a hoot!!

It looks like they're going into an illegal gambling casino by the previews. And Roger has obviously been there before. So.....what if Don runs up a gambling loss bill and signs the IOU to Jimmy Barrett? Would that be plausible even though he gave his name as "Tilden Katz" at the door (which I doubt they'd remember) when it came time for him to sign a marker for the losses? What a way to screw Jimmy!

I don't think they're marriage is over yet because for all Betty's anger and disillusionment, she's still in love with Don. The previews show her being cynical in response to something he says, but I'd say that Don is going to at least get a 6-month pass from the marriage while Betty cools her jets and finds out what life is like alone. Don will have her "begging" him to come back at the end of 6 months, not the other way around. He's that kind of guy. Remember when he had Rachel "ask" him for sex? He'll turn the tables - it'll be Betty asking him to come home, not the other way around.

It looks like they're going into an illegal gambling casino by the previews, and Roger has obviously been there before. So.....what if Don runs up a gambling loss bill and signs the IOU to Jimmy Barrett? Would that be plausible, even though he gave his name as "Tilden Katz" at the door (which I doubt they'd remember) when it came time for him to sign a marker for the losses? What a way to screw Jimmy!

I don't think their marriage is over yet because for all of Betty's anger and disillusionment, she's still in love with Don. The previews show her being cynical in response to something he says, but I'd say that Don is going to at least get a 6-month pass from the marriage while Betty cools her jets and finds out what life is like alone. Don will have her "begging" him to come back at the end of 6 months, not the other way around. He's that kind of guy. Remember when he had Rachel "ask" him for sex? He'll turn the tables - it'll be Betty asking him to come home, not the other way around.

Sorry for the double post - damn!

I've never been in this situation so I wonder - what is the protocol for one spouse throwing the other out of the house? After all, Don is the sole breadwinner and he has paid for the house and everything in it. I don't know about community property laws in those days.

Seems to me, if he continues to protest his innocence, he would just refuse to be kicked out. By allowing himself to be banned, he is sort of admitting that he strayed.

Don gambling? Well, the show has to inject some fun into the series! When it becomes a very dour show, every episode, that can turn off viewers. I want some fun to come back into the scenery!

Previews have Don, Roger and Freddie attempting to enter an illegal establishment of some kind- don't know if it is gambling or bordello. But given what we know about Roger and Freddie, I suspect the later. The typically oblique description of the show indicates that Don will do something for an old friend. We also know that Jimmy Barrett will be back in this episode. Putting 2 and 2 together could mean that Don does a favor for Jimmy, who will in turn help Don....perhaps by telling Betty that to imply an affair between Don and Bobbie was his idea of a sick joke, therebye easing Don's path back to Ossining.

Also in the preview is the scene of a cab pulling away, with Don left on a dark street in an industrial part of town. And Roger's voice saying something like Damn you're so secretive or similar.

Lots to chew on.

Here is an imagined scenario of a future for Don and Betty (based on JimK’s belief that Jimmy Barrett will be forced by Don to go to Betty, apologize, and explain that what he said to her was all a mistake).

Don contacts Jimmy Barrett and either pays him off or threatens to destroy him if he doesn’t go to Betty and take back his previous statements to her. Jimmy arranges a meeting with Betty, says he was out of line, drunk, etc., and that what he said had no basis in fact. Betty, newly enlightened, doesn’t believe him, suspects that Don put him up to this, and senses that Don is desperate. Betty still loves Don and appreciates the economic and social advantages of staying with him.

Betty decides to reunite with Don with the agreement that he stop having affairs and lying to her, that he take more interest in her and the children, and that she has freedom to pursue interests outside the house. She might even go back to modeling. She will cooperate fully in maintaining the façade of ideal happy family. Who knows, it might eventually work out that she and Don actually begin to connect with each other emotionally. Don, seeing no acceptable alternative at this time, agrees.

In his heart of hearts, Don knows he will stray from the marriage bed again whenever he feels threatened or is tempted. And Betty, somewhere down the line, might meet and pursue an attraction of her own. Their future will continue to be problematic.

However, for the time being, there is a more interesting dynamic between them. Betty is empowered!

flowerpower: Seems to me, if he continues to protest his innocence, he would just refuse to be kicked out. By allowing himself to be banned, he is sort of admitting that he strayed.

I'm not a lawyer but refusing to be kicked out, as in breaking into the house would be... bad. Don admits to nothing by being kicked out, just that his wife has some... unresolved issues. He can protest to everyone he knows but knowing Don, he won't. If necessary, he'll take a hotel room.

"Six Months Leave" sounds like a sabbatical. Perhaps a temporary assignment somewhere else. Washington D.C., Boston or Chicago to set up a branch office?

Dennis: Come back! There's gambling on the next episode. Maybe some sex too.

Just a shallow/Betty Draper note....Don Draper can rock a trillby!! Damn he looks yummy! Boy gives good face, I tell ya!

Ritt: I kind of a agree with you that it'll be like a sabbatical for Don and Betty's marriage.

If anything, Don could very persuasively convince others (with the help of Dr. Wayne - his key "witness") that Betty doesn't have it all together (BB gun outing; slapping Helen Bishop; the lock of hair to Glenn Bishop; the suspected interest of Arthur at the country club shindig; the flirtation with Roger; her afternoon drinking that the kids have witnessed; her lewd outfits - the bikini; kicking him out of the house; jealousy towards her dad's girlfriend). All those incidents, as seen through Don's eyes, not necessarily the reality of events as they happened. Don could really slam Betty's reputation into the ground with accusations of instability, irrational mood swings, suspicious and paranoid, dubious marital behavior. She'd be toast. And no one would be standing up for Betty to say she's a saint and walks the straight and narrow after Don "paints a picture" of her behavior.

Excellent Posts People! But I'm sure there's other folks out there with theories--keep it up!

Remembering: I tend to think the first part of your thesis --that Jimmy returns and pulls another apology out of his butt is a strong possibility. However the second half--that is that Betty doesn't buy it but lives with it and they move to a different level--I'm not so sure.

Considering Betty's very "controversial" superior/negative feelings about Jimmy's background/heritage (one unexplored theory about the dining chair: she thought it was jewish?) Betty might be inclined to believe that a drunk, jealous jimmy might take out his feelings on Don through her.

But that would demand one hell of a trick or strong arm by Don to get Jimmy to do it.

Nope, it's gotta be something else.

Just a thought....Don went from "whore child" to "man-whore" in all of 36 years! Quite a climb up the 'ho ladder! LMAO!

JUST my opinion but this stuff about trying to guess what happens next is kind of like knowing the sex and the name of the baby before it's born.

If we read posters' predictions for possible scenario and it happens, then we're like YAWN..... saw that coming....

I enjoy letting the writers do their thing and throw us a shockeroo every now and then. I dont want to try to one-up them. It just ruins it for the viewers (me).

Jimmy is not going to apologize and will probably disappear from the storyline. I think Betty will ask Don to come home and be the dutiful, knowing wife but have a few affairs of her own. Hopefully not with the girlyman stable boy.
Don's mind is still on Rachel as evidenced by his choice of names in the Episode 9 teaser. Man, it was fun to see him laugh and act silly. You don't see that much on MadMen though nothing is lacking in the show. Anyway, I guess Rachel is not history as I had thought. Don still has a torch burning for her and she for him and they will most likely begin a hot affair and business will go on as usual. Don will eventually implode but that will be hopefully many seasons away....

I don't think Don is going to try to "dis" his wife, he respects who she is and what she brings to the table in their family. She isn't the "hottest" sex partner for him but he still loves her and his family.
I think he compartmentalizes his life so much and is so good at it that when Jimmy accused him of adultery with his wife he was surprised and knew he was in trouble. Jimmy the big mouth. Remember the Utz incident.
Maybe Betty is going to look to someone else, riding partner? and give Don some of his medicine but, I don't think she will go all the way.

As much as I like MM, the show does need something to lighten up the mood! Hell, I'd like to see one scene of Don or Peggs smiling! Is that too much to ask?

No, Peggy hasn't really been "up" since Paul's party and rarely smiles or seems happy. She's focused on her work life to blot out everything else or even contemplate about having a personal life.

Don's never seemed "happy" really since Adam's death, and even when Rachel was a part of his life, he wasn't all that happy.

The only person who seems to sail through and be dedicated to fun is Roger, bless his cheating heart! He's about the only "fun" guy in Sterling Cooper and has been despite his two heart attacks. Thank god for Roger or this show would be a complete downer.

Don being into gambling wouldn't be a stretch. Isn't Don one of the biggest "gamblers" we've ever seen?

Maybe Don will "give" Betty a new house closer to Manhattan and whatnot. A "starting over" gift. It'd make sense he'd try to "buy" her off or his way out of this, somehow. Hasn't buying things been his solution to keep adding the the veneer of his life as being perfect?

I'm not sure, folks. Back in those days, divorce was a stigma. Even though Betty is getting stronger as a person, she likes the appearance of a happy, stable home (to others) just as much as Don does.

Laurie B--
Whacking the whole idea behind my post?!!!!!

Keep this up and my next post is going to be "Rip-off ADT 2"!

Sterling is the true id of the show. Don is the ego, crazily trying to find a balance a place is integrated and happy.

Peggy is the superego for all you gross freudians out there.

Could Betty possibly live without Don in 1962?

Jamm54, So right about Roger! That scene of him riding on the back of the twin is unforgettable!

Pattypoo--
Thanks for coming aboard. You're right about divorce. It cost Nelson Rockefeller the 1964 GOP presidential nod.

Jam--
It makes me queasy just remembering those old double mint gum ads!

Don has to get a place, perhaps an apartment. Perhaps Betty hires a gumshoe to "tail" Don to see what he does. While separated does Don cat around? If so, with who? At least on one occasion it's with Roger and Freddie from the preview. Perhaps Don notices the gumshoe tailing him and confronts him. The guy lets on that he knows he's not Don Draper and threatens to blackmail him. This strikes fear into Don as he realizes his whole Don Draper facade can come crashing down. Don pays the guy, handsomely too as the guy knows he has Don by the short hairs. In turn the gumshoe tells Betty that Don is clean as a whistle and retires to Florida on Don's payoff.

Hey, a_mob_hit, that's not a bad idea a la "The Apartment"? Very workable solution for Don, I think! Just send the bills to SC.

Don't think Betty is in the right mood to "find out" any more about Don, for the moment. I think she's had about all she can take.

@JimK: yes, that was pretty queasy with the twins. Even Don looked "embarrassed"; I don't think Don is that much a "swinger", like obviously Roger can be!

For Betty to be going to a shrink - unheard of back then. I was there. Writers are really reaching and not in "the era."
Don will not be "fixing things around the house" ever.

A man can hide a "secret life" for decades if he is clever. And the wife does not have to be dumb.

@flowerpower: it is standard couples behavior for the woman to put the man out during times of marital discord, even today. Men sometimes walk out and women sometimes leave because they've had it, but in most cases she puts him out and he stays away until she invites him back, usually after some groveling has occurred. This seems to be an unwritten rule understood by the men.

zazubombay: The man leaving makes sense for the time period and Don and Betty's situation, but I don't think that it's as "standard" as you say nowadays, at least not in my personal experience. There's been 4 instances of divorce or separation in my family in the last 15 years, and in all instances it was the person who initiated the break-up who left the household (in 3 out of 4 cases it was the woman, by the way) . I think it makes sense that the person who initiates the break-up (whether for reasons of having an affair or because they are unhappy with the marriage) to leave if they can because they are the one who is deciding to make the change. If there's children involved, however, then the primary caregiver should have the kids and the larger home. Really, there's probably no standard way to do it - it depends on the individual situation.

@hanna: I agree with you about how formal breakups and separations are done. I was thinking more about arguments/marital discord when both parties know the marriage is still intact and haven't moved to the next level. It's not clear yet where the Drapers are headed : )

It was rumored that Joseph P. Kennedy offered Jacqueline Kennedy $1 million (a lot of money in 1960) to stay with Jack. She was fed up with his constant womanizing. In 1960 he would never have been elected president had she divorced him.

Betty is beautiful and has a great life socially and economically by 1962 standards. Would she want to give that up? And apparently she still loves Don.

What would Don do to pursuade Betty to stay in their marriage? Promise her fidelity? Tell her the truth about his past? Or, flipping the coin, would he threaten her with deprivation (minimum child support and/or alimony, loss of custody of the children, loss of her home and lifestyle, etc.)?

I don't think it will be any of the above, but who knows?

I love your scenariio, a_mob_hit!

It is very hard to say what the Drapers will do. I'm not even sure if Betty wants the marriage to break up permanently. She felt contempt for Helen Bishop as a divorced woman, and she would hate to be one herself. She might ask for a quiet trial separation or for Don to just stay away from her. If that happens, I'm not sure if Don will agree or not. We've seen him play the neanderthal-like "This is MY house...you are MY wife" card before, so he might not agree to it. On the other hand, it might help him in the long term if he kisses up to Betty so she'll attend all those fancy parties and events that will be part of his job now. It might come to what Don values most, his pride or his career.

Ok, I've had a couple of days getting over Don's lying through his teeth!! I was really upset with him. But, I quess, we musn't throw stones and now I'm back to the loving good graces of this Man! (He does give good face, Visan!!!)
I think that he will come back strong with all his might to resolve the situation with Betty. And, he'll be good for as long as he can and then, well...He can't stay good. But, by that time Betty will have found a new life, be it modeling or commercials ( another Utz commercial!--no just kidding) or something. In any case, she'll be wiser. She is a doll. And, Don and her look like Barbie and Ken dolls. Matt will not break them apart. Something is coming up with Jimmy though cause he's in "Six Month Leave" episode. BTW, Matt wrote, "A Night to Remember". I say it wins, emmy and golden globe!! So grreat!

I love mob hit's post! Very amusing.

Okay: Let's vote:

Do you believe the season ends with the drapers together, or apart?

Post your choice here in this forum.

PS: Jam you are superhero of this forum. Thanks for many good posts!

Nora, Hanna, Laurie, Remembering, Zazz, Deli, 60's, Ritt, Patty,flower,andyindenver, crs, princess, betsy, boop and coffechick, and of course Visan. Thanks for great posts.

What's cool about DD is he could go either way.

Vote now! Drapers together or apart by season's end?

Together .... for a while, but not forever.

I agree.

THE DRAPERS WILL COME TOGETHER BY SEASON END. But, the last episode is called "Meditations in an Emergency", Who will come back from Don's Past??? This is a fun thread! Thanks JimK. But, I had the number three spot last week with, "Jon Hamm for President", Hiuck,Hiuck!

THE DRAPERS WILL COME TOGETHER BY SEASON END. But, the last episode is called "Meditations in an Emergency", Who will come back from Don's Past??? This is a fun thread! Thanks JimK. But, I had the number three spot last week with, "Jon Hamm for President", Hiuck,Hiuck!

I say Don and Betty remain estranged through part of Season 3.

Now can someone please help me cure my
#%## insomnia? 2nd time this week ##@$##!!!!

redhead64,
Take a paperbag put it over your head. Take your clothes off and find out what your strenghts and weaknesses are. And be honest.
Heck, I don't know---blog with me. I'm up. Of course, I'm in L.A. Are you in East Coast time?

@JimK: thanks, can you tell I don't have a job? Anybody out there in the same boat?

As for what's common in a separation (like kicking the man out). Well.......my mother left my dad during the summer of 1962 (to her mother's, my grandmother) and took us with her. We kept back at the start of the school year (Sept) after lots of begging and promises. So.......there is no standard, I think.

Sorry jamm54,
But, there are always those promises aren't there. I already complained about jobs being scarce and got beaten up by the forum for saying so. But, I'M OUT OF WORK TOO!!! The industry doesn't know what it's doing whether to strike or not (SAG) So...
Sorry Jim K. we're off subject, but we're also wanting your thread here to remain active!!!

Apart by Season's end - gotta have a cliffhanger for Season 3 besides Joan's wedding or not. Last year ended around Thanksgiving. What are we into now, late August in the series, September? I think this year will end in October with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

They will get back together and Rachel comes back to the scene in "Meditations in an Emergency" in season finale.

jamm: The Cuban Missile Crisis would fit with the title of the season finale - "Meditations on an Emergency". Hopefully we'll find out who Don sent the book to as well.

Nora: I'm an insomniac as well, but I'm not so sure about your cure suggestions ;) Blogging definitely doesn't help you sleep - it keeps you from it!

Well, whatever their plans for a "cliffhanger" ending, who knows what year it's going to pick up in. It could be a month later (like December 1962 and Joan's wedding) or a year later, and we won't have a clue what's happened in the interval.

I'd prefer they part, but I don't think that'll happen! Don likes the "picture perfect" marriage and how it helps his career. And Not-So-Old Betty likes the perks and gives a damn about the neighbors' opinions of her. Either way, Don should remain slutty! Viva Don the Ho!

I think Don will be back with Betty but on HIS terms not hers. She wants Don to convince her and he refuses. Why should he? She blew her trump card and now the ball is in Don's court.

They will be together but unhappily.

Looking at the dramatic demands of MM, obviously a separation at minimum would mean starting a separate story line just for Betty, distancing her further from the central characters of the show. Likewise, a separate story line for her would mean no or very little contact with Don and there goes a lot of dramatic interaction with his character.

However, if they stay separated for weeks, he'll have to be attending society functions without her, wearing his tuxedo... Who will be his arm candy? And what will she do when she sees his photo in the society page with other women, looking as he did with Bobbie at the Stork Club?

So they'll get back together but not all lovey-dovey. She hasn't forgotten a thing.

I predict that Betty will become a new independent woman. She will get a career , maybe modeling again or start her own business. I don't agree with many posts that Betty needs Don to survive.
Betty is very attractive and classy. I can see her attracting some wealthy professional businessman and moving on with her life. This might not happen right away but by the end of the series I believe it will. As for Don, I see him crashing out at Peggys place until he can soften Betty up to come back home. But I think its going to be all downhill for Don from now on. When Roger told Don that he'll be wearing his tuxedo more because he'll be expected to attend alot of was it' museum' events?
Well Don looked uncomfortable. I don't see Don fitting in with the culture crowd. He will probably start drinking heavily, sleep around with even more women, and eventually self destruct.

Cheryl--

Can't this Don be saved?

If he's on the market, Visan will probably get a time machine and go find him.

Ritt & Hap--
I agree with both of you a combination of the character interactions and script necessity will lead to a reconciliation between the Drapers. I think Hap is right that Don won't come back begging like Carlton did for Francine.

Jam-- The right job will come along. Hang in there!

The following scenario for what Don will do is completely off the wall, but here goes.

The time is a few months after Easter, perhaps August 1962. The Cuban Missile Crisis will start and end in October. U. S. and Russian intelligence and manpower have been preparing for a confrontation since early in the year although the general population isn’t yet aware of the possibility of war with Russia. Many Army Reservists have been called up for service in preparation for an all-out confrontation with Russia.

(My neighbor, an Army fighter pilot, suddenly disappeared on a mysterious mission in 1962; and while he was away, he instructed his wife to build a bomb shelter in their back yard. This was an embarrassment to her. How do you explain a bomb shelter to the curious neighbors? But, it being the 1960s, she did what her husband told her to do. The shelter, thankfully never used, is still there.)

It is sometime after Easter. (I have no other time frame for reference.) In our world of MM, let’s say August. Betty has just kicked Don out, and they are negotiating the conditions of his return. No one at SC knows they are separated. Don is pretty careful to maintain appearances.

As the threat worsens, more reservists are called up. Don Draper, being an engineer of some sort, is among those recruited in August or September. The Army tells him his term of service will be six months. After the crisis ends in late October, there is much planning to do to prepare for future emergencies. Don’s engineering expertise is needed. So he leaves SC and Betty in August or September 1962 and returns six months later early in 1963.

Don’t ask me how Draper fakes engineering knowledge? Perhaps he just disappears somewhere for six months, maybe fakes a death certificate for the real Don Draper and sends that to the government. Who knows? He’s a slick one! Anyway he departs to serve his country and returns a hero. Who can argue with that? Certainly not Betty, who welcomes him back with open arms. Certainly not Bert Cooper who gives him a cushier office and a huge bonus.

A “Six Month Leave” well spent!

Remembering --
Right or wrong very creative--and that's the whole point!
Thanks for a great post.

@Nora: trust me, I do not need a bag over my head. Your "Joanism" fell flat with me. Perhaps you were joking, but it did not come off that way (fyi: a :) goes a long way). Ms. Henricks broke the mold with Joan so perhaps it's best to leave it at that. No offense.

@jamm54: you just keep on keepin' on--the right job will come along-you must stay persistent! I feel the economic impact too-a third of my law practice evaporated due to the real estate meltdown. There is always a job for a good person like you. Stay strong!

Yikes redhead--

My father said that in the depression the last lawyers to go were the bankruptcy guys and when they were out of work, everyone knew how screwed the country was.

I wonder if Don Draper ever thought about faking becoming a lawyer. Maybe he'll do that now to save on any divorce-related legal fees ...

JimK: things are still ok, just the real estate is hurting. Interesting that you would say DD would fake being a lawyer as I have thought of that too. I say he would be so good as a trial attorney since he has insight into human behavior and can surely think on his feet. His good looks would be an asset as well. Doubt he'd pass the character & fitness investigation. :)

Back to work-later all!

Don will NOT self-destruct! Baby Boy, like him or not, is a survivor! He's all about self-preservation. It's what made him switch dog tags and made him work his way up the corporate ladder. He will rise again! After all, Don is the central character and there'd really be no show if he left! (Sorry fans of Not-So-Old Betty and Helium-Voiced Joan!)

I'm of the opinion that Betty is going to get a divorce, and that all the speculation about this being about an affair are misguided. This is about Don's inveterate lying, which falsifies the very premise of marriage. Betty has NEVER had a real marriage with this man, who has always presented himself to her with false advertising. To Don, "truth" in advertising is an irrelevant issue; it's all about making the "audience" buy the product. And he's been in advertising so long this sort of BS has become second nature.

What will DON do? He'll wait until it's too late to react to Betty's move, the same way he did with his brother seeking him out, the same way he did with doing more and more risky and foolish stuff with Bobbi until her husband found out, and told his own wife. He has invested no effort in stabilizing his marriage, and he's going to experience the blowback.

Meanwhile, Betty has previously talked at the kitchen table about her father's ill health and the fact that he's getting worse. She's going to take the kids and go to her father's to take care of him. She was raised in affluent circumstances and her dad has money; if he dies he'll very likely leave her a substantial sum. Divorce courts in the 1960s thoroughly understood the implied contract between man and wife in a traditional marriage; when she foregoes her earning capacity in order to bear and care for his children by marrying him, the man is earning money and providing a home for BOTH of them and his earnings are 50% hers. Men were usually cleaned out in a contested divorce where there were kids, and custody nearly always went to the stay at home Mom.

The unexpected is always turning up on Mad Men. While Don could very well make the twisted interpretations of Betty's behavior in court that people have suggested, she also might come up with some surprises.

A possible one that has occured to me is that Betty meets Rachel, who knows about Don's secret sex life as well as his false identity, and who is sensitive enough to have refused to run away with Don because he was "a coward who would abandon his family." Rachel has turned Menken's on 5th avenue into an extremely upscale clothing store and I can see Betty going to shop there, where Rachel presides over the store space and can interact with customers, and Rachel now knows Betty by sight. If Don decided to malign Betty's reputation in court, Rachel is the type of ethical person who might very well provide a deposition as to Don's cheating.

Remembering:
Don Draper has been out of the Army for more than ten years and I doubt he'll be called up. Much too old for his paygrade and even his National Guard reserve status would have expired.

He wouldn't know where to begin to fake engineering knowledge.

However... He could say, on the phone, that he's been out of the engineering business since the Army and has forgotten most of what he knew. Back then he wanted to build swimming pools but found after his injury he just couldn't handle engineering mathematical equations any more. (An absolute essential for any COE officer.) On the other hand, he's very good at advertising these days, so if they want him to work in the Army's PR department, he'd be happy to serve.

He returns six months later after receiving accolades, etc. for his PR work (they can do that sort of thing for themselves) and as a Major or possibly a Lt. Colonel. Now he's Betty's "brave, American hero" and all is forgiven. Right?

No, all is not forgiven. Repeat, this is about Don's lying and false pretense. If Don really wanted Betty to forgive him so he doesn't lose his home, marriage and children, all he has to do is confess and tell the damn truth.

He's unwilling to do this, or constitutionally unable, and so he's inflicting these losses on himself.

Starboi: Interesting theory. But I doubt Rachel Menken Katz would want her new husband and anyone else to know she messed around with very-married Don Draper. As far as this viewer surmised, only YodaBert, Daddy Menken and her big sis Barb have any idea she took Don as a lover....So I doubt she'd want the freaky deaky details of her romps with Don in court!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Ha!

I personally believe that Don loves Betty. If you look at just how territorial he gets about her, like when they are out and he is constantly eyeballing men who talk with her or when she bought the swimsuit. It was very clear she had bought it for him in hopes he would like it and his reaction would indicate that he didn't want anyone else looking at her the way he does so he makes her feel bad about it. I think he expected Betty to be the good, dutiful wife and never have a backbone to stand up to him or even question his behavior. She played that part because she thought that that's what he wanted in a woman. But look at who Don is attracted to: strong, independently-minded women who are not afraid of him. This could be a positive for Betty. She loves him, she's just tired of taking his crap all the time and being made to feel as if the problem is always her's and he has no culpability. I think if she demands the respect she deserves, she may get it.

Unfortunately I have been missing parts of episodes. Could someone please explain what it was about Jimmy's Utz commercial that made Betty upset?

What Betty was trying to say was "why do you embarras me, humilate me all the tme" she was saying if you are going to cheat on me, keep it discreet

she doesnt want to know anything she wants to be blissfully unaware. which is want women in those days did ignore

toolate:
The commercial with Jimmy was a reminder of that evening when she threw up. A reminder that he said, "I know her and you know him..." She hates Jimmy for saying that but is honest enough that she has to admit to herself what she's known all along and that she has to take action on it.

Andie:
I don't know that he's in love with her. He's in love with the image of beautiful wife, nice home and good kids. Like the house, she's a case of "Mine, mine, mine!" As you said, territorial. His possession. Which is not love. At the most, it's familiarity.

He was more in love with Rachel than Betty from what we've seen so far. Perhaps showing some backbone will make her more attractive to him given he's attracted to strong women.

On the other hand, first, she's blonde (he apparently prefers dark-haired women) and second, he's got years of experience maneuvering her. He's never going to come clean about his Dick Whitman life and the switch to Don Draper. He might, possibly say, yeah, I haven't been faithful to you. I apologize from the bottom of my heart, yada, yada, yada.

He could do it but I suspect Betty doesn't know what she really wants at this point except time to think. She has to change her own way of thinking just as much as he does if she wants to continue the relationship. The real question is: What does she truly want at this point?

Thank you Ritt. That clears things up for me.

RedHead: I hear you. I haven't had more than 3 hours sleep at a time since 2004. F'ing menopause! I can tell you the all-nite TV line-up, in between the ads for Fitness products and penis enlargers (Extenz). Get yourself some herbal-type sleeping pills. You can find them in health food stores. It's the only way, I'm telling you, or you'll be a walking (straggling) zombie.

andie: "I think if she demands the respect she deserves, she may get it." Amen.

As I wrote in an earlier thread, I think that Don's relationship with Rachel was the closest that I have seen between Don and the females in his life thus far. Rachel and Don shared an intellectual affinity; she spoke her mind and Don listened (I'm not sure that he viewed Midge with the same respect). I think he sees Rachel as intelligent and worthy of his respect (if it is indeed possible for him to really respect women). I agree, Ritt, I think Don is more in love with Rachel than Betty. Perhaps he has damaged his ability to love Betty by his indiscretions. Yet, I see a need in Don to hold on to his family--he keeps acting self-destructive by cheating but is terrified deep down at the thought of losing Betty and his children.

redhead64,
I thought you were kidding! I apologize. Thought you were just having fun by the way you posted it. Seems like everytime there is a personal thing on these posts you get blasted. I do profusely apologize and hope you find a cure. As for me, I'm outta here. Sorry Jim K. your thread is getting too personal and it's best I don't post here no more.

@ Nora: i'm tired & cranky and very apologetic to you. I fell like I need a motion sickness bag on my head. Forgive? What happened to your picture--it's gone??

@ LaurieB: melatonin has been helpful to me. I can't take prescription meds b/c I just hate having the dumbs all day from lack of sleep and they are addictive. I worry too much. This site is one of my outlets.

1 more thing: I realize there's people who have REAL BAD problems who would love to have my "problems"-so I'll count my blessings, zip it and stay on topic.

Thanks for lending an ear/ears. :) :)

Interesting premises from some of the posters! Great food for thought.

JimK, redhead64: thanks for the encouragement. I was a realtor for 5 years (2003-08), but didn't do that well and both my parents came up ill (2005) in that time period. Since then, cared for them through to their deaths, and am trying to wrap up my dad's estate and sell the house. I'm hoping for a reprieve before I truly "have" to go to work, because it hasn't been a "vacation" or "picnic" since this all started.

According to the NAR (National Association of Realtors), 100,000 have left the business! Ain't that quite a figure! Jeesh. When I do start to "look" for work, I'll need to go back to the drawing board and think about what I want to do - never had a "career" so to speak, other than in newspaper advertising. So......won't be going there again! And god only knows what I'll be getting at 55! MacDonald's probably if I can handle the standing, because my education won't hold sway with anyone - it didn't before in 2001 when I was 47!

To All You Hot Flashers Out There: keep on trying - I remember the night sweats! It passes in about 2 years.

RedHead: I don't take any medication either. Nothing prescribed or OTC. But these Sleep Assures I take are all natural/herbal from my sister the witch doctor (she's an homeopath-herbalist, thus the title). Contain stuff like melatonin (like you said) and passion flower extract, chamomile, and valerian root, etc.

If Betty leaves for 6 months to take care of her gravely ill father I can see Don out on the town with his buddies going to gambling places etc. Betty told Don when she didn't want him to come home "I don't care what you do".

Other than being used as "bait" for Roger's skirt-chasin' behind, Don's never been seen simply hangin' out! That whatever the hell he did at the matinee movies doesn't count. This man needed to have poker night with the Fellas or some other "guy" thing. I'm hoping he'll be gambling and shit with Freddy and Roger from that preview clip!

Don the Doll needs to chill!

Yeah and Roger likes Don for a wingman

I don't think we ever saw Don at the Tom Tom club with the guys like Peggy did, no?

Haypnzap:
Don wasn't at the Tom-Tom, nor was Roger and I don't think Duck was there either.

jamm54:
I feel for you. I've had two mortgage broker company tax clents go out of business and know of a third.

@Ritt: yeah, everything real-estate related (from the realtors - sellers - mortgage lenders) are falling like bowling pins, aren't they? Whew, the Pacific Northwest is the last to take the hit (always takes about 2 years from the east coast to the west coast in economic swings) and we're not through yet. Will bottom out in the summer of 2009, I think.

Don will pretend nothing happened, at work anyway. And he'll find another skirt to lift to keep him distracted. He may eventually use the "I was an unloved whore child" card to justify his behavior to Betty. He knows very well if he opens up to her about his past she'd feel sympathy toward him, and would slowly let him back in. But I see them apart until the first of season 3. I loved this last episode. January Jones was brilliant. I believed every second of it. Now, what will Don do to Jimmy Barrett? Something insidious like he did to teach Roger a lesson in season one? Or will he bounce the little twerp off the walls?

Mad Men is good but there comes a time when this viewer must see the lighter side to these characters. I want to see Don the Magic Wand smile! Jon Hamm has great teeth and I'd like to see them in a big cheesy grin once this season! Just once!

Also, I want this show to get a little "less white!" Carla is more than "the housekeeper." What's her life like? Sheila, a beautiful woman, but how and where did she meet Paul? Where the heck are the Latinos? The Asians...there were more in NYC than pretty waitresses in eateries!

Please, AMC/Mad Men interns reading this blog, have Don the Magic Wand smile and please expand the role of people of color on the show! The writers can make that happen!!!

**Hat tip to Patrick Kehoe for the nick "Don the Magic Wand"

Check out this photo of Ken

The New York Post headline reads "bill aids owner in foreclosure"

http://blogs.amctv.com/season_2_mad_men_photo_gallery/episode-8-paul-ken.php

Great posts, everyone!

It occurred to me also that Betty might turn to her father for help. Her mother is dead, no sisters, no really close girlfriends, and no Dr. Wayne right now. Who else can she turn to? Remember also, Betty's father doesn't like Don. In Season One, Don says to Betty, "I don't like the way your father looks at me." I think the father has smelled a rat in Don all along. He would certainly be a sympathetic shoulder for his darling daughter to cry on.

Maybe she will take the kids and split for Upper Merion for six months. But there has to be a reconciliation -- a divorce would still be a good 10 years away. Unless she meets somebody else? A really wonderful Jewish man who would worship the ground she walks on! His perfect shiksa goddess! What do "you people" think about that?

By the way, Don never told Rachel about his switched identity. He only told her that his birth mother was a prostitute. And I agree with Visan that Rachel would never want her good name sullied by her affair with Don. Any meeting between her and Betty would be highly unlikely, IMHO. An encounter with Bobbie maybe, since they already know each other.

Don will not commit suicide; he's a survivor.

And not to be a doomsayer, but how do we know there will even be a third season? If the ratings are lousy, is AMC committing itself to Season 3? Has anyone heard anything?

16 Emmy nominations and no season 3? I'm not nutz

Ritt,

In regard to my fantasy scenario on Don's being called up by the Army during the Cuban Missile Crisis, your suggestions are much more practical than mine. I know Don is 36 and has been out of the service for about ten years, but I visualized his service record being so outstanding that the Army needed him in the emergency in spite of his age.

Your idea of Don's talking himself into a PR position, one that he can handle with ease, is inspired.

There might be a few problems, however, with printed details in the real Don Draper's papers on file with the Army. For example, a description of the real Draper (height, color of eyes, color of hair, weight, etc.) in Army records might arouse suspicion if it is not close enough to Dick/Don's actual appearance. I don't know how Don could explain that, but I'm sure he would find a way.

Thanks for your input. It's a much better story with your suggestions!

Excellent post Gail Klein! Maybe Daddy Hoftsteadt (sp?) has DD summed up-oh please do not even think that there would not be a 3rd season-I'll flip! Or, on the bright side maybe HBO will pick it up if AMC does not.

P.S. Wasn't Bright Side a 60's shampoo that stripped its users' hair?

redhead64,
I knew you'd come around. Good deal!

The person talking about bad ratings?? That can't be possible can it. There was a hint somewhere on the website about whether Don and Betty are really married, eluding to the false name being an issue about the legal state of their marriage. I don't know how that would come out unless she hires a lawyer for divorce. Hard to imagine though. As unhappy as she is, she loves Don more than her kids it seems but he's not so sure but I don't think he'll want to give up the pretense of a happy life. I think since he had such a weird childhood he thinks that their life is okay.

Hapynzap,
You are nutz! There is going to be a Season 3. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOVE READING EVERYONE'S POSTS. Incredibly creative, clever and insightful.

Appropos of nothing, has anyone on these blogs mentioned the bit of trivia that Roger's wife is played by Talia Balsam, daughter of the late actor Martin Balsam (Psycho, The Taking of Pelham 123, etc) but most notorious for being the first and only (ex) Mrs. George Clooney?

Hapynzap,
You're not nutz there is speculation that if MM goes under 850K that it will be cancelled. It is considered to be in a very competitive time slot at 10 pm. Wonder about the dvr viewings. "Army Wives" is right against it! And the Olympics didn't help. And it was slow this season in getting Hot, Hot, Hot! HeeeeelP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The jury is out regarding the ratings for MM in season 2. Here is what the Washington Post had to say....
"Mad Men." After the AMC series nailed more than 2 million viewers in its second-season debut, Episode 2 fumbled nearly 40 percent of that crowd. That said, it's still up compared with the first season.

http://bigscreenlittlescreen.net/2008/08/07/mad-men-ratings-sink-in-week-two/

I thought I already heard that there will be a 3rd season? I'm not worried and have no doubt there will be.

Thank you Hapynzap that's all I wanted to hear. Phew!

Thanks for posting Drink & Smoke. I've enjoyed your comments in the past and the Dean Martin Avatar is pretty cool.

Anyone have any idea why Jimmy Barrett is going to be in Ep9? Does it have anything to do with Don & Betty?

I have no idea JimK,but it must have something to do with Don & Betty.
I don't know where I posted in answer to 60'schild re: MM being on for 10 years. CORRECTION: I just re-read Matt Weiner's interview and he said the characters will span 10 years of their lives. Each episode taking place a month later and in between Seasons some years apart. So that will take us to 1972. He is committing to a 5 year run of Mad Men. I say, his wish is his command.

With that being said, someone posted before that it could be the episode takes place 6 months later. Or, maybe Jimmy is unhappy with his show and wants to bail. Or, Don may be sending a contract out on him with the mafioso types. Remember, Don said he could destroy Bobbie? He's got to be mad as hell with Jimmy and Bobbie!

Also, with the timeline of the show being said, I'm now wondering too as another post mentioned. When did Betty take off on her horse that morning. Was it a month after the famous Caddy and kibbles and bits scene?

Mrs. Sterling was the real life Mrs. Clooney? No way! Really?

Don's next move? He makes a power move at SC. Here's how I see it playing out. Pete Campbell catches wind of Don being in the doghouse due to infidelity. I'm going to blame Jane for this leak. More on that later. Creepy Pete sees this as another opportunity to to play the Dick Whitman card. Peggy confronts Pete and he tries to tell Peggy that Don is a fake, a fraud. A big row ensues. In the heat of the moment, Peggy drops the bomb on Pete. Perhaps not intentionally, but it's out. Pete fathered her baby. Of course, Campbell is stunned. Shell shocked. Peggy tells Pete he'll never see the child . For good measure , she threatens to let Mrs. Campbell know . Peggy demands that Pete forget that he ever heard of Dick Whitman. Campbell has no choice. Campbell will never pose any threat to Don or Peggy ever again. He's emasculated, crushed, broken. Peggy did this primarily out of loyalty to Don , but she enjoys seeing Campbell squirm. Peggy feels the power she wields not only over Pete but Don as well. Peggy enjoys this feeling of power. She knows how the game is played and she's eager for more power. Don's her benefactor where as Campbell was a tormentor and a liability. Don learns of Peggy's actions and in turn makes things happen for Peggy. Her star is rising at SC. Primarily on merit, but with some behind the scenes moves by Don. I say that eventually she becomes a partner years down the road either after Cooper or Sterling dies or retires. Back to Jane. She listens in to a phone call and learns of Don's predicament, (skirt chasing and living apart from Betty). She in turn blabs it and this is how Pete finds out. In turn Roger finds out and cans Jane, (without ever getting her in bed). Roger is deeply sorry. Not for the firing but for missing out on Jane's goodies. So we have three characters at SC , their lives intertwined. Don is deeply indebted to Peggy, Peggy is fiercely loyal to Don. Pete, well Pete's a mess. Unable to father a child with his wife. Yet, the office girl he thought as a easy lay, probably thought of her as a slut, she bore his child, which he'll never be able to see. Pete may have to go see Betty's shrink. Don , by hook or by crook eventually gets back in the house, but perhaps not fully in Betty's grace. It's too early in the show for them to split up. Joan finds out that Roger fires Jane but let's him know that he's a jackass for keeping her on after the office break in incident. Roger might be the one that convinces Betty to let Don back in the house. He may even enlist Mona's help to convince Betty that Don's an alright guy.

JimK: Yes, we've already been over this ground. Talia Balsam was the only woman ever married to George Clooney. Rumor has it that he's gay.

a_mob_hit:
Peggy enjoys this feeling of power. She knows how the game is played and she's eager for more power.

You forgot the part that Peggy finds she enjoyed chastising Pete so much she becomes an after-hours dominatrix in the Village wearing a fetish nun's habit. :-)

Pete's her first client to be joined shortly thereafter by Harry and Fr. Gill. He later becomes a flagellant in Opus Dei for having impure thoughts about Peggy...

Peggy, wearing a radically abbreviated habit, knee-high laced boots with five-inch spike heels. With a whip... The mind boggles.

I think there just might be a season 3....Check out these numbers!

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/16/mad-men-ratings-for-season-two-july-2008-october-2008/5149

Gail--

You're saying George Clooney is a lighter thief?

I really need to pay more attention Hollywood internet chat sites...

Speaking of great shows that ended up in the ratings graveyard: does anyone remember the show "Homefront"? It took place right after WWII in Cleveland, OH and starred Kyle Chandler (now from "Friday Night Lights"). The opening song was "Accentuate the Positive". It was a great show, it just went unappreciated by the network.

Readhead--

I remember it because there was a young blonde actress who has since shown up on a lot of other shows who was great in Homefront--she had a real starring role in the show. Can't remember her name. The show had a little of that "not so distant but very different past" feel that Mad Men did. I liked it quite bit too.

@ JimK: I do not know her name but as I recall the actress was involved with the older man character. I think the show was on tv on Friday or Saturday night.

Also, why the hatred toward you? You seem ok and have obviously passed the LaurieB test First you were Zassed, now a mincing by Chop(ped)in47(pieces). What gives?

Back to the grind-Talk with you all later-have a great day!

OMG I certainly do remember Homefront. It was only one long season though right? They did wrap it up nicely at the end though so you weren't left hanging. I taped the last episode. Maybe I'll dig it out and watch it this weekend.

Redhead- What's the Laurie B. test?

THE GREATEST SALES PITCH OF ALL.
In true 60's consumer society fashion Don will turn to his "role models" of the time and at least try an attempt to lure Betty back with apologies, confessions ,new promises and material possessions. In a true ad men character you better believe that there will be included flowers, minks, diamonds,and possibly a new kitchen to prove his devotion to the home and the sincerity of his love. How obvious! But this is what men seemed to do at the time there was no other role models available. He will basically include a few attempts to "buy" her back as part of the "apology /reestablishing the home package". Don is a commercial entity. He is going to make every sales pitch possible his creative mind will come up with in order to win his golden girl back. Don is also a tragic hero in the vein of "The Great Gatsby"...he is our golden boy and he would be nothing without his wife and family. They provide him with true substance that he is beginning to ackknowledge. All the flings of his past are flashy , glossy, fast and passionate "products" that he has bought into but without substance or stability. She will not be impressed with all this salesmanship because its so phoney. She has more intelligence and moral courage to fall for that. But she also believes in commitment and she also believes in the "man" that she first fell in love with. Even though his attempts are rough and imperfect she will see the truth behind all the gloss. Her beliefs will sustain the fragile condition of their marriage. And with this commitment comes all the support and encouragement from the culture and media of the times to stay together.

I think Don is going to give it great thought and will beg Betty to take him back. he just has too much to loose, family, memories, house, and what will the people in the office think.

I also think that when and if Don comes back on his hands and knees that he will be forever faithful to his wife...till next time.

Hi LaurieB: you and JimK seem to have good online chemistry and you always post insightful and humorous things. So a good response from you = passing the test! Do I pass the test? :)

I think Don's going to "play" for a while and let Betty stew at home about her "impulsive and irrational" kicking him out. Remember, Don can be quite vengeful (lest we forget Roger's oysters/martini "death march" as JimK hysterically called it or Peggy's promotion as a "f--k you" to Pete) when he feels maligned/threatened.

Come to think of it, knowing Don's a great one for payback, I can't believe he isn't going to make Jimmy Barrett "pay" for what he did, somehow. Wouldn't be like Don not to dream up something, but what? Jimmy Barrett is attached to a SC client, so......

Jamm: I was thinking the same thing that Don the Magic Wand will get back at Unfunny Jimmy. Gangsta Don was rather enjoyable and Jimmy needs to be brought down off his step-ladder for being an overall assclown!

I don't think Don is going to do a Kobe Bryant and show up with a big diamond, etc.

but it is a good idea heh

Redhead: You're funny. I think the last time I addressed JimK., I was calling him a narcissistic online blowhard (or some such thing).

But Jim, I meant it in the most loving way :) All I ask is that you knock it off with the 23-paragraph opinion pieces. You need a job at a newspaper or something.

BTW: Attention Deficit Theater is up and running...

http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/8069/50/

Remember Don told Bobbie, "I'll ruin him," meaning Jimmy, during the crotch-grab at Lutece. If he said it then, I have no doubt he already knew how to do it. BTW, I wonder how he knew Bobbie liked it rough.

I doubt Jimmy will see it coming or know where it originated. Any more than Roger figured out the stairway death march.

First, I agree with Visan (as always). Mad Men needs to lighten up and then it needs to darken up. Heh. That is, I wish the show had some of the same lightness and sparkle it had last year, and since it's 1962, and issues of "the color line" were prominent in American life then, it would be interesting to see a little more of it on Mad Men...

As to what's going to happen between Don and Betty, who knows? I stopped trying to second guess the writers, although I do have a couple of theories I'm spinning.

There's been a lot of talk and reference this year to being "fat." That combined with Betty's aversion to being that way, her throwing up while leaving The Stork Club, and her being reminded of Don's infidelity while watching Make Room for Daddy, make me think she may be pregnant. That would certainly alter the dynamics of their relationship as it exists now. I could definitely see that as a reason to try to make things work between them, even if their marriage were to remain strained.

I would love for Betty and Rachel to meet -- either accidentally in Don's absence, say, while Betty shops at Menken's, or in Don's presence, like through some of the philanthropic work he's being to encouraged to participate in. As Roger & Cooper told Don, philanthropy is a larger aspect of doing business. As a successful business owner, it's very likely that Rachel knows this as well. What if she and Don end up serving on the same board of directors? That would mean there would be occasions when the Drapers and the Katzes would have to socialize. Hijinx would certainly ensue. Talk about making Don squirm...but Betty might get some good sex out of it...

Redhead4, LaurieB & JimK:
I believe the first time I ever saw John Slattery was on Homefront! That was a good show. Too bad it didn't make it.
Grinandbearit: Ooooh. Maybe Betty IS preggers! Interesting idea.

Grinandbearit:
Let's see. Upchucking. Violent mood swings. Could be. But I doubt it although the Stork Club and Make Room for Daddy are a fantastic coincidence if it's not a clue. That could bring them back together.

The Drapers and the Menkens at a fund raiser? Don would cringe seeing Rachel and Betty talking together, comparing notes about husbands.

======

BTW, how weird is it to be up for Emmy awards for the previous year when the final episode of the current year just got filmed?

@Ritt: Roger did figure out the oysters/martini "death march". Rewatch the episode sometime, and zoom on Roger's face as Don is walking away smirking. Roger is not smiling and he's looking straight at Don's retreating back. He knew Don had "got him" for making a pass at Betty.

pattypoo: do you remember what character John S played? At the time, I only had eyes for Kyle Chandler-loved him in "Morning Edition" too. My politics may be very liberal, but I really like shows that are clean (not squeaky clean, just clean), tell a story you can apply to your own life and have character development. Other shows I liked were Little House on the Prairie and Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman.

More stuff about me that you all couldn't care less about ("Who cares?"): My favorite Gidget movie is Gidget Goes Hawaiian. I hated Gidget Goes to Rome 'cause Moondoggie was such a d**k to Gidget and she took him back anyway.

Just filling time since we have nothing to look forward to this weekend.

grinandbearit: EXCELLENT post-you put some intriguing pieces of the MM puzzle together. That storyline would be really interesting. Assuming abortion is not an option for Betty, she might be hesitant to divorce Don and then blame the child for her not fulfilling her goals. Just like-here comes my big reveal--my own mother!

I've read The Feminine Mystique (and watched "Now Voyager" 100 times) and saved a fortune on therapy trying to figure out my mother issue. :)

I wouldn't doubt if Grin and Barrett gets canceled and Jimmy also loses the Utz account. Buh bye sucker!

Redhead: I think Slattery played the boyfriend of Kyle Chandler's mother...If Laurie B. watches the last episode that she taped, maybe he's in it & she can tell us....

Kyle's mom had a boyfriend-I just do not remember . . LaurieB do you recall?

I need to get Homefront on DVD and re-watch. Perhaps while I am in deprivation mode from MM. Those damn Emmys-we want MM to receive them, but we want our show to air too--it's torture!!

I just looked on Amazon for the Homefront dvd and it's not out yet. Quite a fan base the show still has with good comments. Even an online petition to get it released on dvd.

So I guess I'll watch paint dry this weekend. Or just stare aimlessly at my beagles.

I posted this on the Open Thread a few days ago -- I think Betty is pregnant and WILL want an abortion.

And JimK: Ask Laurie B. about George Clooney! She's the one who started it!

(Although I had heard those rumors, too).

@redhead64: Glad to know I wasn't the only one who had mother issues. Sometimes I wonder if it was the generation of our mothers, and we kind of took it in the shorts for their frustations in marriage/motherhood - I know I did. And yep, I went to counseling to resolve it and a whole host of issues regarding my parents' marriage. It's nice being older because now I can understand, in hindsight, what happened to my mother in marriage; what she went through; me being the unwitting victim/witness of it. Was able to forgive and let go because it wasn't about me at all. Just as Betty focusing on her daughter's looks/weight isn't about Sally at all; it's about Betty's hang-ups and the messages she picked from her own mother about beauty and acceptance.

And, if Betty's pregnant, where would she get an abortion in 1962-63? Still illegal (though on the Seattle side rumor had it the wealthy either went to Japan or Vancouver, BC - don't ask me why Canada), so what the heck would Betty do? Watch "Love with the Proper Stranger" for ideas? All I can say is poor Betty, if it turns out to be so. Betty doesn't seem like she's enjoying motherhood that much to begin with. She's no June Cleaver/Betty Anderson/Donna Reed.

Sorry, it's Margaret Anderson.

Well, if Betty is, and if she knows, she could ask Joan. Who does know.

Jamm54: Middle-class and upper middle-class women could always get abortions. My mother told me that the woman who go to her doctor, tell him that she wasn't able to take care of another child, feign a "nervous breakdown," and go in for a "D & C."

Not that my mother ever did this, mind you. She was 43 when I was born in 1954, which was unusual at the time. She was NOT happy when she found out she was pregnant with me. But in the end, I think I turned out to be a source of pride and (some) happiness to her. She suffered from depression, though. And, typical of her generation, would never, ever seek the help of a psychiatrist. So much needless suffering! I cry when I think too much about it.

And I've heard rumors that my grandmother (who had 9 children) had at least one illegal abortion back in the early part of the 20th century.

Betty wouldn't want to bring another one of Don's children into this world. Like Kay Corleone in The Godfather, Part II.

Talia Balsam is now the REAL Mrs. John Slattery. Or did we know that already?

It's so interesting how Betty is always remarking about Sally's weight. It makes me wonder if the real-life Sallys developed eating disorders. I notice that the little girls today are so painfully thin. Perhaps the Sallys, now mothers themselves, are perpetuating the cycle of weight paranoia.

jamm54 & GailKlein: Regarding the mother issue, thank goodness there are options available to prevent pregnancy if the woman so chooses. I think my mother blamed me for her own irresponsibility for not using her diaphragm and treated me accordingly (don't get me started!!). Anyway, my husband and I elected not to have children and I must confess, when we discussed the issue before we got married, it was such a relief from my mind. I am glad that in today's society we have the choice not to bear children and not become the object of scorn for our lack of children. My eternal thanks to women like Margaret Sanger.

I went onto Wikipedia to read about Margaret Sanger and came across this off topic but noteworthy intro on the Wikipedia main page:

Anekantavada is one of the most important and basic doctrines of Jainism. It refers to the principles of pluralism and multiplicity of viewpoints, the notion that truth and reality are perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth. Jains contrast all attempts to proclaim absolute truth with adhgajanyāyah, which can be illustrated through the maxim of the "Blind Men and an Elephant". In this story, one blind man felt the trunk of an elephant, another the tusks, another the ears, another the tail. All the men claimed to explain the true appearance of the elephant, but could only partly succeed, due to their limited perspectives. According to the Jains, only the Kevalins—the omniscient beings—can comprehend objects in all aspects and manifestations; others are only capable of partial knowledge. Consequently, no single, specific, human view can claim to represent absolute truth.

Just like our input on the MM forum!

What do you mean redhead - why cant we see the end from the beginning and Pete Campbell falling out the window hehe

@Ritt: why would Joan know where to get an abortion?

@Gail Klein: that surprises me that women could go to the doctor and get a D&C. Thank god for some compassionate doctors, then.

@redhead64 & Gail: for my mother it was more an issue of getting married too young (17), and being married to a man (my dad) who just shouldn't have been married - wasn't interested in being with the family, even though he loved my mother and us kids. He liked being free and "unencumbered". Wasn't into the husband/father role until it was too late (he died at 50).

I disagree about little girls being painfully thin. Of course I'm in the Midwest (Michigan) but geez, around here, they're getting pretty barrel-shaped at younger and younger ages. Lack of exercise, too much pop (soda to most of you), and fast food. Heck when we were young during the fabulous '60s, our moms threw us out of the house after chores were done and we weren't seen or heard from until dinner time. We'd busy ourselves with kickball, baseball, fort building projects, lemonade stands, hot dog day (we'd sell hot dogs to other kids) and the annual Skit-Revue in someone's garage (admission was 3 cents). And after dinner, there was usually a good flashlight tag game going on until around 9pm. Ah... summers were the best.

GailKlein: OMG that memory of Kay Corleone saying that to Michael still makes me shudder. I thought he was going to kill her right then and there.

jamm54:
In Season One, Joan's (beautiful, Nordic-looking blonde) roommate comes to the SC office looking very worried. Joan asks her roommate if she needs to see Dr. XXX again. Obviously not to schedule an appointment for a pap smear.

As it happened, that wasn't her roommate's problem.

Regarding the comment that only the rich knew of doctors that would give them an abortion via a D&C: I had a friend back in the 60's that found out about a midwife who performed abortions in her home on her kitchen table, illegally of course, and had it done.

Then there were the poor souls who used coat hangers to do the job.

Regarding the comment that only the rich knew of doctors that would give them an abortion via a D&C: I had a friend back in the 60's that found out about a midwife who performed abortions in her home on her kitchen table, illegally of course, and had it done.

Then there were the poor souls who used coat hangers to do the job.

Wow, grrreat stuff!

A few weeks back I asked about the Drapers' method of birth control as it seemed they were having spontaneous sex, making a diaphram not an option, such as the Sunday morning wet dream sex. I like the idea that Betty is pregnant and think it's a good possibility.

I also think we'll find out that Dick Whitman's mother was Jewish. Perhaps he and Tilden are half brothers or cousins or something. (From the same village, as Rachel would say.)

Joan gave A LOT of hints as she described the soap opera plots. Not a coincidence! She talked about coming out of a coma and not remembering who you were. That'll be Don's defense - they told him he was Dick Whitman and he "didn't remember" otherwise. Then Joan said, "Someone we thought was dead really isn't." Yep.

I think the army WILL come back after Don Draper and somehow it will be revealed that he's Dick Whitman who is a deserter, etc. and he will use the "I was in a coma after a trauma" defense. "It never happened," he'll say. Bert Cooper will do something magical in his stocking feet with his light saber and save him.

That blond we saw in the flashback to the used car scene is going to be back. The real Don Draper's girl? Sister? High school sweetheart? Mother of his bastard child?

There are A LOT of clues coming out about Don. I think at the beginning of Season 3, and YES, there WILL be a seaon 3! we will all buy the Season 2 DVD set and realize all the little things we weren't connecting. As much as I think I caught and over analyzed in Season One, I'm still catching SO much now - now that I know more.

Thanks for the compliment on my Dino icon, JimK. You have a great icon as well. Cheers to you! ;o)

This is very out there for me because you all know I keep it real! Anyway, I was perusing the 'nets and came across this missing persons case of a sports editor called John Lake. He went missing in 1967, in the midst of a divorce. John Lake and "Don Draper" look nothing alike except for having dark hair. But I thought the circumstances of the Lake Case, a workaholic with marital woes whose estranged wife reported him missing, would be an interesting take on "Don Draper" since the man dreams of running away so much. Hmm....

JimK: Congratulations - 170 posts on this topic site. Second only to the Episode 8 Open Thread.

@Ritt: okay, I can see that. Obviously that comment by Joan went right by me! (Jeesh I'm naive sometimes for my age!)

This is pretty far-fetched, but it could happen.

If Betty is angry with Don now for infidelity, imagine her reaction when/if she finds out that the man she has been sleeping with is not Don Draper but someone named Dick Whitman. Emotional trauma and “What will the neighbors think?” aside, consider the legal consequences.

What about title to their house? What about the legality of their marriage? Are Sally and Bobby Whitmans or Drapers? Do Don and Betty have any insurance policies? What about the IRS and their tax returns? I can see Don getting into a whole lot of trouble. but what about Betty? She signed the documents also. Ignorance is not a compelling defense.

Fraud is defined as “a false representation of a matter of fact, whether by words or by conduct…of that which should have been disclosed….any kind of artifice employed by one person to deceive another.”

That’s the story of Don’s life since he stole the dog tags of the real Don Draper in Korea in 1951. What would he say when confronted by the authorities? There must be a limit to Don’s resourcefulness.

(Ritt, what would the penalty be in connection with fraudulent tax returns?)

@Remembering: in one of the episodes this season early on Don was at the doctor's for an "insurance" physical, his first I think. Don't you think if ole' Petey ever got a whiff of Draper divorce rumors, he'd be at the head of the line or at the post office mailing crap to Betty? Pete still is Pete......

Re: "Someone we thought was dead really isn't."
The only folks that we know have died are:
a) The real Don Draper
b) Betty's mother
c) Pete's father
d) Don's brother

Joan would have no idea that Betty's mom died. She wouldn't know anything about the real Don Draper or Dick Whitman's brother for that matter. That leaves Pete's father. Did he fake his death? Anyways, something to mull over since there's no show this week. If it were Pete's dad, I'm not sure what his reincarnation would add to the story.

@a_mob_hit: I think Joan is referring to a soap opera character. Remember her going on about some plot detail of a soap opera where the character was in a coma? The writers of MadMen do real screwy stuff with us in those previews to throw us off!

jamm54: Wasn't Joan talking about As the World Turns? I think she told her doctor that he'd never believe what happened on the show that day. I wonder if anyone can think back that far (62?) & can recall what was happening.

Remembering:
"...what would the penalty be in connection with fraudulent tax returns?"

Not that much. Fraudulent tax return cases are typically based on under/non-reporting of taxable income. I'm certain Don & Betty have their tax returns done, probably by the CPA firm that does CS's corporate tax return.

The IRS is primarily concerned that the U.S. government receives its fair share of the taxpayers' income. That he used a different name than his own is not really a concern.

Social Security might have a larger concern because he would be unlawfully (at some point) receiving benefits to which he was not entitled. But they'll cheerfully take his money anyway until that date. (Grrr... Don't get me started...)

Don is definitely planning his next moves when he sits in the break room with the Heineken. It's all forward for Don.

Ritt (or Russ, if I may),

Thanks for clarification about the taxes. It's always about the money, isn't it?

Jamm54 suggested that Pete Campbell is waiting in the wings for an opportunity to make trouble for Don. Could be, but he wasn't exactly successful the last time he tried.

I agree with Hapynzap that Don is not moping around about Betty in the break room; he is planning his next move. Hope it's a good one. It's too early to bring Don down.

Just thinking back to my corporate days: What can create change in a person, corporation, nation, etc.? Only severe discomfort, PAIN. Don has to hit rock bottom before he changes. He will continue to behave the same way, albeit with some modification, until he experiences this. Anyone agree?

@Pattypoo: I bet there's a book out on "As the World Turns" outlining the whole history/storylines in the series.

As for Don hitting rock bottom, you can't be on a winning streak forever in business. There are usually some valleys, and Don could be starting to hit those in business. In advertising, we had revenue goals, and sometimes we were slogging at the bottom of those goals for over a year, depending on the economy and what area you were in (transportation, employment, real estate, retail, national - banks, airlines, financial institutions). You know you were doing bad when your commission check (after taxes) couldn't even buy you a six-pack! Hey, it happened alot. You almost felt like donating it back to the company when you saw those checks!

@Remembering: But Pete hadn't tried it with Don's "family". He could be a big enough dufus to do something like that.

jam: Yes, I'll bet there is a book. Thanks for suggesting it. I worked in advertising, too, in NY in the mid-60s. It was one of the 5 largest, so we were pretty flush and I think it was different in those days. How horrible that a commission check after taxes was so low. I know what you mean about giving it back to the company--heck, it probably cost more to cut & & get it to you.

But I'm not talking about Don only in business. He could be going downhill by drinking more, smoking more, getting a communicable disease, having his wife leave him or making his life hell on earth, etc., etc. Then the work thing would also be intertwined. I'm looking for him to hit rock bottom when NOTHING works for him anymore.

Comments?

pattypoo - that's not gonna happen at least not yet.

ENJOY THE RIDE

Just from the standpoint of real life, I think life has it's peaks and valleys. Even if you're on the decline, it still seems to be an up and down movement, maybe with lower peaks and the descent getting steeper.

Even though this season has built up alot of turmoil and conflict and crashes in Don's life for dramatic effect, it can't all be a one way street down. Otherwise, they might as well show Don in Times Square lying in the gutter with his brown bag of booze. I think they've played the depression up enough, so hopefully this "Six Months Leave" will show some happier moments for Don as his life is disintegrating by bits and pieces.

@jamm54 You're right. Perhaps Joan is going to dump Dr. I-Don't-Care and let Roger know that she's available again. Joan probably shuddered at the thought of sitting at home waiting for her hubby to come home from work.

But isn't Roger afraid that screwing Joan again will give him a heart attack?

I thought his bad health was the reason he ended their affair.

And anyway, wasn't Joan turned off by his "piece of ass" comment?

Help me out here.

I haven't been able to stand Roger since that "piece of ass" insult. He's a slime wad.

Don is punishing his mother through Betty.

@Gail: we don't know WHO ended the affair. My guess is it was Joan from some of the comments she made in earlier episodes this season to Roger about loving his wife, and also about fidelity.

I have an idea that Joan found out about the twins because of her remarks about love. She told Roger (this season) that she thought he didn't love Mona, when the reality was he wasn't enamored with marriage (in Joan's opinion).

She also mentioned that she had always been faithful to who she was sleeping with - I guess as a direct hit against him about the twins? But that is not true. Joan picked up the two traveling businessmen the nite of Roger's heart attack, and slept with one of them - so she''s no more "faithful" than Roger was being to her that night with the twins.

I don't think it was the piece of ass "compliment" that killed it for Joan. It was discovering that Roger had no real belief in marriage (besides the fact that he does love his wife, Mona), and is an incurable serial skirt chaser/cheat who will cheat anywhere, anytime with anyone regardless of who he's married to. Too destructive for Joan, and she knew it. I still think Joan loved Roger, but finally realized his "true" character.

@Twiggy: I think Don is both punishing himself and seeking out his mother through his bedroom conquests. It's not about Betty, really, at all. It's about Don's hung up vision of his mother as a prostitute and fulfilling his own self-image of being like her and wanting to "connect" with her. Kind of sick and "Freudian", I know, but I think that's really where he is mentally/emotionally. Betty has very little to do with other than as an ornament to Don's perfect advertising pictures of what a wife and family are supposed to "be" and "look like".

As far as rock bottom, I think Don still has a ways to go. His escape valve (promiscuous sex) is eventually going to do less and less to assuage his anxieties and pent-up fears. When the sex (along with the business) is no longer a band-aid for what's bothering him or doesn't give him a "high", I can't imagine what he will replace it with.

@Gail Klein
@jamm54
@Twiggy

I think Joan was deeply touched by Roger's "piece of ass" statement. Tears were forming in her beautiful brown eyes. They had ended the affair partly because of Roger's health and partly because they (maybe just Joan) realized there was no happy ending for them.

Roger seems devoted to his family in his own way, and Joan is a practical woman. However, it seems to me that Joan still has feelings for Roger, and he for her.

Not to wish any heartache for Mona and Margaret, but I hope Roger and Joan revive their affair sometime soon.

Good post, remembering. I agree with you about Joan and Roger's affair having no happy ending. I think Yoda Bert's comment to Joan, "Don't waste your youth on age" sent a pretty strong message. I had a friend who dated significantly younger women for years. As he got older he started dating women his own age. He told me, "it's fun to date younger women, but eventually you have to talk to them". Age does funny things to people. Cheers ;o)

hi all. first time posting on this topic. so much to absorb in one reading! hope this post is not annoyingly long for ya.

congrats to ritt -i think that's who pointed this out - catching the very fleeting early reference between joan and her roommate, about roomie being "late" again and do you need to see dr. xxx...obviously a reference to a missed period and needing a certain clandestine "procedure" to fix it...

about betty throwing don outta the house: she had no right to do that, and his staying away was simply a matter of courtesy on his part. he owns and resides in that house and even if she had the locks changed, he had the right to change them back and maybe even break the door down to re-enter his own house, if he so chose. in those days, my guess is he alone (not jointly with betty) owned it. betty had no black eye or bruises and if she claimed he was violent (which is a lousy thing for a woman to do if it never happened...only makes it harder on women who are really abused), the police (if called) would never believe her...even if they did, they'd probably still let him back into the house. especially that socio-economic class.

new york had and still has some of the most archaic divorce laws in the nation. someone mentioned "community property" - ny has never been a community property state. (most states are not). i believe in those days in that state, distribution of property was based on whose name was on the title. the presumption was not equal distribution, nor that the "wife got everything". she would have, however, probably been given hefty alimony. and child support if she got the kids.

it was fault divorce. lots of long, acrimonious trials. betty has no proof that don has been unfaithful, unless she got bobbi to confess and testify. it's unlikely she could prove any other fault grounds against him; however, the old catchall of "extreme mental cruelty" which was used to technically prove some fault, could be something as minimally "cruel" as ignoring her at the breakfast table in favor of reading the paper. don could prove fault grounds on her, since she kicked him out and has several incidents of publically wacked behavior, which would also be used against her to take the children.

i suppose there is the slight possibility that his identity could give rise to grounds of fraud in the inducement to marry him, but that would annul the marriage - thus no alimony for betty. she wouldn't want that.

if i'm not mistaken, in ny there had to be a long period of separation before a divorce could be granted or finalized. sometimes people reconciled during that time. which is what the law was designed to encourage.

perhaps "6 month leave" refers to that....

by the way, i'm a lawyer; albeit, not a ny bar member. so i could be wrong. imagine that - a lawyer admitting to the possibility of being wrong!!

as for tax fraud, the irs doesn't care who pays the taxes as long as they match up with a social security number and actual income. dick whitman's use of the name "don draper" is, in and of itself, merely the use of an alias, which is not inherently illegal. he did not use it to steal "real don's" assets or income, nor has he used his education or job credentials to impersonate an engineer. the eventual receipt of social security benefits under don draper's social security number (assuming it's the same one) could be a violation...but by then, who would care? however, i get the impression that don got a new number.

dick could have actually changed his name to don draper legally after assuming it. he could have easily established residence in some obscure place where no one would think of looking, waited ong enough to be eligible to ask the local court for a name change, and had his name legally changed. public records were much less accessible even as little as 10 years ago...conceivably, no one would ever find out.

then he could have applied for a social security number under his new name.

however, it's possible he's in trouble with the military for accepting a medal and discharge under that assumed identity, but as others have said, he can always plead amnesia, saying the doctors told him he was don draper, etc. all very plausible under the circumstances.

despite all of that, somehow the old identity switcheroo is going to come back and bite him - it simply must! we already saw a hint with that blond woman at the used car office circa 1952. i cant wait for the episode when more identity stuff hits the fan!

Remembering: I don't know -- Joan looked pretty stricken to me. Hard to tell what the writers' real intention was.

Actually, I don't how she can stand to still be working there. Isn't it awfully hard to face Roger day after day?

I think it's time for Joan to move on (not that I want her character written out or anything). But wouldn't it be great if she could get a better job somewhere else?

Gail Klein:
My impression has always been that Joan had "feelings" for Roger but it was more as a person than as a sexual partner. I never thought either of them expected "fidelity" from the other. Joan knows Roger much too well and vice versa.

Remember how she had to step back and defer to Mona after Roger had his second heart attack? Classic problem for the "other woman."

I think Joan will get a better job but within SC, probably in the Television department after the new guy flames out. She'd probably negotiate her salary with Roger directly. That could lead to his third heart attack. (No, you dirty-minded individuals! When she insists on the same salary as Clueless (who Harry will be ordered to fire). "After all, Roger, our clients already know who I am and liked my work.") Not that anyone else in the office would believe no hanky-panky was involved.

Next question: Who will get Joan's job?

Ritt,
Jane will get Joan's job!

She's ambitious, agressive, confident, and manipulative. (She's been to college although that might not be a requirement for advancement.)

It's true that Jane is new and fairly inexperienced at SC, but so was Peggy, and look what happened to her!

GAIL KLEIN: HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

Being with someone younger is fun - I dated younger and older. Younger is a hoot, they don't seem as tortured (this was in my 30s), but as I've gotten older, yes I'd rather be with someone in the vicinity of my generational ballpark. They would have some of the same memories I have - and "get it".

Remembering: I can't really see Jane getting Joan's job. I don't think that Jane is the only college educated girl in the steno pool and seniority will have an impact. My bet is on Hildy - the girl is a little too buttoned up, but she is usually able to keep Pete in line, she brushes off the advances of the frat boys, and I think she has the inner-strength to run the office.