Sorry, don't see it.

My bad. I wasn't actually in the A&E section. (Had to register with the Globe to get into it.)

Besides a strong tie to Sarah Palin, there was also a tie to Hillary. The writer was not a fan of Hillary's.

Interesting... My watch and computer say it's 11:48.

I'm in the Eastern Time Zone and my posts are timed at 10:26 and 10:46 (which I just finished). However there are two posts from mymymy at 12:29 and 12:32. Both posted after my first but before my second.

The problem has not been fixed...

Thank you for the link, mymymy. I tried to do that and couldn't get it all in one address.

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2008/09/20/what_the_women_of_mad_men_can_teach_us_about_sarah_palin/

Here it is as single page:

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/articles/2008/09/20/what_the_women_of_mad_men_can_teach_us_about_sarah_palin/?page=full

The author mentions the show is misnamed as it is about women and not men. Is that how others see it?

Staff writer, Joanna Weiss, did a really good job describing the women of Mad Men in the article. You could tell she is a fan of the show and has some character insight.

This is one of the best points she made when describing Joan:

"...when Joan got the chance to fill in for a man, vetting TV scripts to plan for placement of commercials, she saw a potential way to redefine herself. She enjoyed the work and did it well, but her male colleague didn't seem to notice: too conditioned to seeing Joan as nothing but a sexpot, he offered the permanent job to another man. And Joan, who had squeezed herself so successfully into the box she had created, lacked the will to fight for a different reputation.

She succeeded not just because she was competent - though she was - but because she was womanly, too, and knew how male clients would respond. In the world of advertising, she had the perfect sales pitch..."

She was right on the mark! Thanks for posting the link....

Sure thing. I would post the text, but recent shifts & discussions re: IP & copyright laws and legal challenges (even to educational or traditionally fair use contexts) make that a tricky thing these days.

Regarding the article, though: I'm encouraged that the author made the connection and thinks creatively about television, politics, and culture. Feminism has yielded different things for different women, and Mad Men, in myriad ways--equally, in what it displays and what it omits--reveals a great deal about what we were, what we are, and what we might like to be.

Intriguing connection between Sarah Palin and Joan. They are both women that you can't neatly label (mommy, career woman, sexpot). I suppose that's true of most women at one time or another - you try to find a way to be all those things at once and end up being simultaneously judged and admired (as the author pointed out).

As for feminism, I personally feel the point of it is that women should have the choice to live the way they want to live. However, the problem is that people judge women for making choices that are different from their own (the classic stay-at-home mom Vs working mom debate). I'm not sure if it's avoidable, as being judgmental is human nature, but it's unfortunate.

MAJOR PROPS SIZZIE FOR FINDING THIS!!

I am a HUGE Sarah Palin fan - always have been. Printed it out and I am gonna sit down with a cup of hot tea and read this and I'll come back with my thoughts.

Some thoughts on this interesting read -

I think that while Mad Men has been focusing on women lately and Weiner has done amazing things with Peggy, Joan and Betty (esp after last week) the show itself is about a whole gamut of social issues - not just treatment of women. But this author did indeed hit the nail on the head several times. The part about jealousies and the judgements women unleash on one another was in fact something I posted some time back on this site. It started a conversation about women bosses with several, several posters saying they'd rather work for a man.

I like the comparsion of Peggy to Hillary Clinton - the defeminization. Hillary has always been defeminized in the media - whether it was her own making or the media I do not know or care. Palin is feminine, sexy, a woman who has five children, a hot husband, was a beauty queen, is strong in her convictions, doesn't care (or have the time to care) about how people view her and SHE TOTES A GUN and can GUT A MOOSE (please no animal rights people) and I really, really feel (really feel) that she represents such a threat to liberal women because quite frankly they probably never knew someone like her existed (believe me we do) and they are JEALOUS of her and she is a threat to them because if she in fact becomes Vice President, liberal women feel that they will be set back - how I do not know - for 4 years and quite possibly longer. So I guess in conclusion I guess I view Palin as an aspiration and not an insult.

And yes I totally know about that Working Mom vs Stay at Home Mom debate that rages. I was a very accomplished professional who worked for a sports agent (talk about male dominated) who is still, 12 years later, remembered for my work. I was making high six figures and with a clear head I made the CHOICE (that's what feminism is about, no?) to stay home and raise my children and I do not have any regrets. I am constantly subjected to questions/innuedoes.

I remember when Hillary was running in the primary and my daughter (11) asked me if I wanted her to win and I told her no. She asked me why and I told her that maybe, one day, a woman will run/be President, but I did not share Hillary's beliefs. My daughter witnessed first hand the tears I had in my eyes when Palin was announced.

As for where this author was going with sex pot Joan I totally get it. "She succeeded not just because she was competent - though she was - but because she was womanly, too. She knew how male clients would respond in the world of advertising, she had the perfect sales pitch . . . . she was a natural" YES, YES - Shout out to Liberal Women -you can catch more flys with honey then vinegar - trust me it works, especially with men! Maybe Hillary should take a lesson from Joan (and Sarah)

In the article the author said that (I am not quoting so maybe it was my interpretation of what she wrote) that Betty was not connected to her kids because of her having Don for a husband. I don't know that I agree with that. I think Betty wouldn't be a really connected to-her kids Mom no matter which husband she had. I think it goes to Betty's basic personality. And, I do not think that Joan has accepted her position as always watching from the outside of a man's world. She has watched Peggy ignore Joan's advice and seen it work for Peggy. I think Joan will see the hiring of a man for the job that should have been Joan's (actually Joan should be head of the TV department) as an obstacle to get over or around. It might take her a while, but I think the process is beginning in her head. It would be fun to watch how she uses her considerable ammunition in finding a new way of life for herself.
I also don't think Mad Men is a show about women. I think it is a show about people.

....without saying too much, i'm really appreciating all the contributions on this thread.... (i'm in lurk mode today....)

I do not admire the Weiss article at all! Her insights are quite simplistic. She also seems to be a sexist. In my opinion, there is a much, much deeper analysis of MM's characters and themes to be found in this forum.

I think it's interesting that several people did not take the same things from this article that others did. At all. I, for one, took *very* different things, and I won't go into them because I know that gets ugly.