Blondeambition - I agree with everything you said. I pointed this out weeks ago re: Joan/Peggy but Joan has now come down on the side of Peggy and this Jane is now in her cross hairs. WOMEN MAKE THE WORST BOSSES TO OTHER AMBITIOUS WOMEN. We see an example of this now in politics with this new VP pick. (I am just making an example - I do not want this board to turn into a political debate)

I wouldn't go so far as to say this issue makes American companies less competitive

And if I am not mistaken it IS Joan's JOB to hire and fire and keep the office running smoothly as she sees fit so the blame here should go to ROGER for upsurping Joan

I disagree with blondeambition. Jane is a subversive element in the office which undermines lines of authority. Jane's prank wasn't the first. It's best to terminate problem employees before their behavior and negative attitudes take root and have an effect on the office. Joan's not threatened by Jane, and I think it's understandable that she would not want someone like Jane in the office creating problems. I don't think Don notices his secretaries. He only fired the last one after Roger commented to him. Since Roger didn't talk to Joan, it's possible that he led Jane to think that he would in order to ingratiate himself to her and get her in bed. Either Joan or Jane will confront Roger about this. Stay tuned.

Blondeambition said "This situation happens alot in business today and it is totally distinct in women and it totally absent in men. Men don't know how to be catty (thank god!)"

I think you have to be careful about using absolutes like "totally distinct in women and totally absent in men." I've seen men get jealous of other men in my office and go running to the boss. You don't think men fire other men for petty reasons? It happens. Their hormones and DNA effect their thinking every bit as much as women's do.

I've seen men sabotage each other every bit as much. Their methods may be different but the end result is the same. It's not limited to gender.

Joan is freaking out because Jane is a younger, more beautiful and more of a daredevil version of Joan herself. Joan sees this and is her nose is seriously out of joint. Queen bees are like that in all walks of life. Jane broke the chain of command going directly to Roger (who just likes to be surrounded by gorgeous girls) because she KNEW it was a sure bet to circumvent Joan. Stand by, however. Joan is not one to be trifled with. I do wonder about her 'fiance'. Did she make him up? He certainly seems to imaginary. Key to this was when she said, "on call means to you have to stay in the hospital all night". I know medicine has changed alot since then, but sans pagers and cell phones, Docs simply left their phone numbers wherever they would be (restaurant, golf course, etc.,) with the hospital operator who would page them via managers, waiters, etc. Just my observations

I can't believe what I'm reading. Jane's firing had nothing to do with cattiness or competition between women -- she behaved inappropriartely by sneaking into the senior partner's office and then mouthed off to Joan. Of course she was fired. blondeambition, if you were indeed in the business world in 1962 you should know that employees then did not get the kid-glove treatment they now do for acting like that.

As for men not exhibiting catty behavior in the workplace, what do you call Don's treatment of Pete? Half the reason he promoted Peggy and gave her the Clearasil account was to humiliate Pete.

And I hope Joan gives it to Roger for interfering in her business - although you notice that good old Roger really didn't do anything once he was finished with Jane.

I didn't like Joan at first, but I'd take her as a boss over any single one of the pricks who run Stelling Cooper. (And that includes Don Draper most of all.) She has never done anything unprofessional in her work, and you notice that as much as she seems to dislike Peggy, once Peggy was promoted she insisted that the secretaries atart calling her :"Miss Olson" as a sign of respect.

I've worked in 'men's' jobs and been surrounded daily by men who are as catty, petty, and gossipy, not to mention cutthroat, as I have ever been on my worst PMS day!

When did Joan decide to fire Jane? (1) when Joan approached Jane's desk or (2) after Jane lied about who intiated entering Cooper's office, and then told Joan she didn't need a mother.

Entering Cooper's office without permission was not acceptable in that business environment. The executive guys made it clear they knew it was wrong. However, except for the one guy who chickened out, they did follow Jane.

Joan asked to speak to Jane in private, so that indicates it was a serious matter. Maybe a serious reprimand was what Jane was facing, until she mouthed off at Joan. If Joan did go to Jane’s desk intending to fire Jane, wouldn’t Joan have insisted on the conversation being in a private space? The fact that Joan didn’t insist on the two of them going to a private space suggests to me that Joan only intended to discipline Jane, not fire her.

Maybe Joan acted impulsively after Jane lied about who instigated the artwork-viewing incident and then mouthed off at Joan “I don’t need a mother, I’m 20”.

How long will Jane last in the office after her fling with Roger Sterling is over? Jane has a survival instinct - she went to Roger over the firing. But Jane’s skills of perception and manipulation are not fully developed. Is she too immature; would Roger be better off without her in the office when he's done with her?

Joan had an affair with Roger, but appears to have been very discreet. Two years later, Joan is still working at Sterling Cooper.

SoFla Kate: I almost completely agree with you. Joan's firing of Jane was 90% about Jane's brazen and unprofessional behavior and 10% about her anger over Jane taking over her old role of Roger's lover. Jane not only broke into the boss's office but she was very disrespectful and rude to her immediate superior (Joan, the office manager). She totally deserved to be fired. And Roger totally deserves to be ripped a new one by Joan for interfering. Joan may have her faults, but in the office, she is a professional and tries to run a tight ship (remember her speech about everyone leaving their personal problems at the door and doing a good job at work). She has high standards for work and tries to be fair, not letting her personal feelings cloud her decisions (too much).

My husband and I run a business together. The employees always come to me when things go wrong because my husband is The World's Worst Boss and Bully In The Workplace. I have to be a "Joan" with him on a weekly basis. Truth be told, we wish I could fire him!

Jane may have won the battle but she may not win the war. Joan walked away from her desk with that "I think I'll move the Xerox machine" look in her eye. Jane is outranked, and Joan isn't going to put up with disrespect, petty or not. Yikes!

And isn't Roger slick? Jane may be his way of getting to Joan, but will it work?

Many times what we dislike in others is something we see in them that we have grown to dislike about ourselves. I see Jane as a young Joan, in every way. Both are beautiful, and know they change the dynamics in a room full of men, and sense the power in it, and yet they both seem to wish some man could see past that. I don't believe that Joan intended to fire Jane until she made the "Mother" remark, "OWWCCH!!!" What a zinger that was, a bullseye. Joan is at that 30 something age and it really must bother her, especially when she see's a young version of herself, who turns on her and points out to her that "I'm 20 and don't need a mother". BAMMM!!! And then she fought her way out of it. Definitely, not Miss Peggy whom Joan picked on all the time. This one has sharp claws too. I do believe anyone who screws with her can get hurt.

Jolie10: I hadn't thought of Rodger using Jane to get to Joan. Maybe he's not just looking for her replacement.

I too think that Joan is not done with Jane. She can't let the girl think she can get away with her manipulative behavior and maintain her position as office manager. She's older, wiser, and she's seen it all. Jane may stay at SC, but she'll soon wish she hadn't crossed Joan.

WOW, this is a hot topic!!

I have looked at women in the workplace, and men in the workplace over the years, and while healthcare is different from the corporate wold in some ways, I have made some observations:

1. Women do not tend to stick up for one another as men do.
2. Cattiness crosses both genders. I have worked with men who can be just as catty as women, sometimes worse.
3. Women who wish to climb the corporate ladder must be smarter, and tougher that their male counterparts.
4. Assertive women are known as bitches, assertive men as bosses.
5. The pay and respect in a "female dominated" profession is overall less. I have a 4 year degree in Science, Master's degree credits, and 30 + years of experience, and yet, women I know who work in a male dominated profession with my education and experience make double the money.
6. The Women's movement has helped some, but, we still have a long way to go.

OK I'll get off the soapbox now!

Please excue the typos, I need more coffee!

C’mon, looking at a picture in the bosses office is seriously a reason for firing!!??

I’m sure the secretary staff check boss lady Joan’s body language all day long to ensure that they haven’t met her displeasure.

If Jane’s behavior was so brazen and unprofessional, why didn’t the guys get a “talking to” as well? Joan has certainly done so in the past.

Jane was fired because she correctly pointed out that Joan is the only one who gets to have fun. Yeah, I know it was sassy back talk, but that truth just p--- off Joan. And she had to make sure the rest of the staff saw that no one gets to sass her and get away with it.

Remember, it was Joan who decided when to allow the staff access to the liquor cabinet during the election party. Joan gets to wear extremely provocative clothing. Joan gets to have an affair with the boss. I’m sure during the course of any work day, Joan let’s the secretaries see many examples of Joan getting away with things they aren’t allowed to think about.

Meow! Meow!

As an aside, it isn’t only women who are catty, although they are more public about it.
Remember, Don up and fired Pete too.

I don't know that I would characterize women's office conflicts as "catty", but over the past 20 years I have observed that female office workers, particularly secretaries, become obsessed with petty personal jealousies and squabbles that interfere with the operation of the office and that their male bosses refuse to deal with it, resulting in a disfunctional work environment. For at least 30 years I have tried (unsuccessfully) to convince my male bosses at a number of offices that they should take steps to deal with these conflicts, but the bosses consider them so insignificant that they feel that it's beneath them to get involved and then they wonder why their staff can't work together to get anything done. Example: a lot of secretaries bring products for sale to the office and display these items on their desks (These products range from Avon cosmetics to Tupperware to candy bars for their kids' school fundraisers.) If one secretary pressures her co-workers to buy these products and some do and others refuse, she will give preferential treatment to the ones who do and "punish" those who don't. The punishment could include intentionally mixing up the mail or making sure that a copy job is sent to the wrong person. When I've tried to point out to the bosses that they could easily solve the problem by not allowing any products to be offered for sale at work, they always dismiss my concerns as "not important" (translation: girls' stuff) and refuse to get involved. Then they wonder why it takes so long to get anything done.

I think Jane's replies to her office manager would be insubordinate, even today. I'm not sure when employment rights kicked in, but of course now, she would have a verbal, a written and a final write-up before firing, or she could sue.

Yes the games in the workplace continue, recognized by women but just as prevalent in men. When they call you a bitch, you know you are effective. I tell them, "That's MS. Bitch to you!"

Blondeambition:
I couldn't agree with you more. Joan is jealous and really overstepped her authority with trying to fire Jane. She had no business basis to terminate her.
It was a decision based on emotions(jealousy) and had nothing to do w/ Jane's quality of work.
I have been "laid off" twice in my career. Both times it was due to a woman manager who was jealous of my work, and was threatened by me. Uncannily enough,those 2 scenarios were in a 90% female workplace where they had a totally incompetent woman "managing" the staff. I have said it before and I'll say it again,I'd rather be sexually harassed by a man than be constantly subjected to back stabbing,gossip,sabotage and all the other crap that goes along with an office fueled by progesterone gone out of control.
it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.I'm not saying I adore Jane,but she deserved maybe a warning for going into Cooper's office. Not termination. If Roger should target Jane as his next office love affair,all bets are off. Joan and Jane will be having a smackdown catfight over territory. A joy to behold!

I agree with sofla kate, hanna and others who say that's Joan's reasons for firing Jane were completely correct, professional and for the good of the firm. Nothing personal about it. It should have been done and although Roger undermined Joan's authority (she is the office manager, support staff is under her control, and execs should not interfere in her decisions) so he could get into Jane's tiny white panties, it's not good for the firm.

Who is Joan's "daddy" in the company? Bert Cooper? Will he back her up if Roger throws her under the bus in favor of squeeze of the moment Jane?

Roger should be wary of Jane. So should Don. She seems like a potential blackmailer. She's not above snooping and spying in desks and personal files.

@ Hanna,So Fla Kate and others I too believe that Jane is trouble. She's like the female Pete. She sassed off way too much for Joan's liking and I would have canned her too. If you get a chance to view this episode agian. Listen when Joan is walking anywhere. Even through the office is carpeted you hear her high heels a com'n. If I was a secretary there and hear the sound of those clydesdale feet coming towards me I'd shake in my boots, but Jane the pain throught she could take Joan on with her in with Roger. Jane knows that with Roger's slight comments that he'd like to get her in the sack. However Joan runs the floor of that circus. Jane's young and sassy and needs to know her place. She is devious in her nature and when Joan caught her showing off her program to the fellows she caught on to her act right away. Joan needs to hold her ground and she will.

The depiction of Joan and Jane is art imitating life. Always found women catty and bitchy in the workplace and every place.

Im so happy that Joan got griped at by Jane, If I was Jane I would have said lets go see how Roger Sterling right now! but I think she handled it in a funny way, stumbling in his office and looking like a cute lost puppy.lol

Jane is hot and she knows it. Joan knows it too. She's threatened in more ways than one. Jane's beauty gives Joan a run for her money. Jane is also wild, (sneaking a peak at the painting with a gaggle of male accomplices), which disrupts office etiquette and rules. This could reflect poorly on Joan. Jane also attracts a lot of male attention which bothers Joan , because she can't control that, other than correcting her wardrobe. Joan is used to getting her way. She was taken aback when Jane threw her the Sterling curve ball. Jane may not have know that Joan & Roger were lover's but she probably figured it out real quick. Joan was hurt and Jane knew it. It's not over though. Jane had better watch out. There was a cartoonist that drew for Playboy magazine in the 60's & & 70's . He drew girls that remind me Jane.

Of course Joan feels threatened - she's been the Queen Bee for a long time at SC, and I'll bet Jane is one of the few that ever fought back like that. She was pretty shocked when Jane started snapping back. And from the look on Jane's face after she told Joan about her conversation with Rodger and why she dared to stick around, it's clear that Jane is nervous to see if there's any retribution. Payback is a ... well, you know.

As to general cattiness at work - I work in a predominantly female professional industry, and while I've noticed a little cattiness among female co-workers, I've also seen a lot more camaraderie and mutual respect. However, I also agree with what someone said above about female bosses being considered "bitches" while male bosses are just tough and respected. It is possible for female supervisors to manage people without being harsh or cold, but it's a fine line that they walk - they must command respect while still being warm if they want to still be liked by their workers. Some female bosses just say that they don't care if they're liked, as long as workers do what they're supposed to.

Jane is not the only who has snapped back at Joan. Peggy did on more than one occasion. Which is why Joan told her, "You've never wanted my advice before." But gives her some anyway. As usual.

BTW, the reason Joan didn't reprimand any of the Guys is because she has no authority over them. She did with Jane.

One odd little side note to this incident: In the beginning, Jane is nervously fending off Roger's apparently repeated attemptsto find out where she lives. "I told you, you just have to look at my file."

I think he creeps her out, and as much as I object to her overstepping, it must have taken a lot for her to go to him for help.

Roger is easilty the creepiest, sleaziest character in the show. Does he actually DO anything at SC besides smoke and make bad puns?

SoFla Kate - he owns the agency, that's how it rolls.

I agree with the sentiment of this comment. As a male in advertising I also witness quite frequently women account execs consistently trying to thwart male employees who don't flatter them with comments about their dress/look etc - aka flirt without being sleazy.

I guess it comes down to power hungry women cutting out their competition, as well as the whole ego trip about letting a man win - so it's doubly confusing these days. Once feminism comes in, which I assume is what Jean represents, things will get very interesting.

In the business of ideas, where one idea can be better than the other based solely on one's opinion, it makes it extremely difficult to have a woman screaming at your creative team what she wants when you've clearly directed your team to go the opposite way.

Then it comes down to bullying / gossip tactics from the female, and a range of excuses from 'we don't think this is what the client will want' etc. I've seen female account execs not even present the work I've approved because they felt, with no degree or qualifications just a big set of boobs that they knew better. At this point I must point out Managing Directors hire suits, not Creative Directors and generally the MD is the sleazy throw back to the 80s.

I think mad men, if we take out the overt 60s influence, was the golden era of advertising.

I love the thing Don says to Duck - You spend more time selling your clients to me than you do selling me to them.

Amen. We need to bring that back. And the scotch. And smoking. Maybe take out the sexual discrimination thing but everything else (apart from the awful ads they make!) runs so much better there than any agency that exists today.