....Paul, I love this..... brings back SOOOOO many memories.....

I still have my parents' huge collection of matchbooks from every restaurant and lounge they ever visited in the 60s. I treasure it as a tangible piece of their otherwise somewhat mysterious history together.

A private, youthful intimacy between them, places that don't exist any more, except in the memories of the people who were there.

Both my parents smoked, and all the smoking behaviors you describe were a big part of our household.

The best (and one of the only) photograph I have of them together is one snapped, post-dinner, at an elegant restaurant not unlike Lutece. An 8"x10" taken by someone selling them to diners, or perhaps as courtesy of the establishment. Not unlike the Drapers, my parents were young, beautiful, stylish and looked ecstatically happy.

Oh, and they were both elegantly holding cigarettes. In the 70s, Mom was a Viceroy smoker, and Dad was addicted to Benson & Hedges extra longs.... really not sure what they smoked in the 60s.

My mother was taught that a "nice girl" is never photographed with a cocktail or a cigarette in hand. So, in many of the older photographs of my mother, her arm is thrust straight out the side of the picture!

If you've ever sat in a room for any length of time with a collection of smokers, you begin to understand the relationship. These people aren't smoking smoke as much as they are “inhaling” emotions.

To watch the intent faces, the faraway eyes, the long, long silences, the deep inhale almost bordering on a sob, you would almost think it was a form of therapy for them.... Some schools of psychology believe that a smoker holds profound early grief in his or her lungs, thus explaining the attraction to the habit of inhaling.

I'm a non-smoker but, I swear, if you spend enough time around smokers, it almost draws you in.... It looks so soothing and comforting, and yet so deliciously self-destructive at the same time….a masochistic pleasure…

My parents are both dead now, and will never know my children. Mom died of lung cancer – ugly. Dad of a massive stroke. Lights on, nobody home. I still have my father's collection of elegant lighters from the 60s, although they are just for decoration and posterity now.

I never started smoking, because I knew, just by looking at it, that once I did, I would not be able to stop. I would be a member of that exquisitely tortured club, a prisoner.

Smoking looks so seductive to me. I’ve decided that, once I hit the age of 70 or so, I’m going to go ahead and take it up. What the hell.

I’ll sit on my porch in my muumuus and ankle sox, and cackle at the kids going by.

And smoke………

God, I miss cigarettes! I haven't smoked for 10 years and I still want to!! My top 10 list of best times to smoke:
10. While waiting for planes, trains, or anything
else with wheels.
9. While taking in the passing scene on the front
porch, or back terrace.
8. While taking a break at work.
7. Before and after work.
6. While watching Edward R. Murrow on TV.
5. While watching Mad Men on TV.
4. While driving- especially during long road trips-
coffee too please.
3. After certain extra curricular activities.
2. During cocktail time- um, martinis and smokeables!!! Yum!!!!!!!!!!!
And the number one time.to smoke..........
1. After Thanksgiving dinner, espresso and cigarettes immediately, if not sooner please!!

Wow!
You're obviously a gifted writer. You took a theme and really ran with it.

The only thing we both left out was the strong sexual innuendo at so many levels. Many of these expressions you describe so well related to sexual interplay that was so risque at the time, yet still acceptable in that format. These behaviors even preceded the double entendres a few years later.

I'm similar to you. While dad smoked for many years because that's what a "man" did, my mom was more enlightened. She told me there was only one way to stop smoking, although she didn't mean the obvious death.

More than once my dad said he was going to quit. Then, one evening he took a long drag, then said in such a nonchalant fashion, "That was my last." And, it was.

May I join you in that porch swing? Please pass me a smoke while I light your cig with my personalized Zippo. (My rechargeable doesn't work any more.) I'm an alpha. Don't forget the big, beautiful ashtray, unless you want me to bring one. I'm picturing a porch on a cliff over the breaking waves...

For Caprice:
After that big dose of tryptophane from a well-garnished turkey, that nicotine and caffeine rush really rounds it out.

You forgot to mention sitting around during cocktail hour and smoking with your friends from work! Frank, Sammy, and Peter at the Sands Hotel. The humor and stories seem to melt away the hours with laughter!

Dry Manhattan, so well written! My father was a chimney too. Died at age 70 of complications from Benson & Hedges. As a child, I loved matchbooks from the fancy NYC restaurants my parents partied at with their nicotine and alcohol addicted friends.

Roger O Thornhill = R O T
Funny monogram...his mom (the writers) must not have considered what his monogram would be when she named him!
But, don't get me started on Cary Grant or we'll never get out of here! sigh

Does anyone remember the bubble gum cigarettes that would blow a powder out of them when you put them in your mouth and exhaled? They were wrapped in white paper just like the real ones. I had an older cousin who smoked, and I can remember sitting next to her and "smoking" my gum cigs. to look cool. There were candy cigs. too, and they all came in cigarette type boxes.

Then I remember the "Virginia Slims" commercials on TV years later. I still remember the jingle...
You've come a long way baby! The company was trying to capitalize on the women's movement.

As late as the early 1980's everyone had printed matchbooks at weddings.
How things have changed...

SC Fan:
Tell us about your dreams of Cary Grant (Archibald Leach) and I'll tell you about those I have of Eva Marie Saint.

As Jean Robie, "The Cat / Le Chat" in "To Catch a Thief": Oh, yeah, and Grace Kelly in her best performance ever.

Sorry, but the thought of Cary Grant made me have another memory...remember in "North by Northwest" when Cary Grant was on the ledge of the bldg. and had to duck into that woman's apt. who was sitting in bed reading?? He was dashing past her and she looked up, grabbed her glasses, put them on, and said "Stop!!!" then after she got a gander at Cary, she quickly repeated "Stop!!??" in a sexy tone. He looked at her and just shook his finger at her saying ""Uh uh uhhh"... So funny. Also the classic double entendre of the train barrelling through the tunnel at the end when he and Eva Marie Saint were on their honeymoon! I remember on a trip to Mount Rushmore in 1985, I was so disappointed to learn in the visitor center that "all the Mount Rushmore scenes were filmed in a studio in Japan"!!! (watching the movie as a teen I never thought about the logic of them climbing all over the actual monumnent-- of course they couldn't possibly be! LOL)

60's child: Now I remember all those cig substitutes. Those candy cigs were great to suck on while making eyes at members of the other sex back in the ninth grade while listening to the "Theme from a Summer Place" - soo exciting.

I always thought that jingle, "You've come a long way baby!" was so sad as a supposed offshoot of the feminist movement. Didn't Gloria Steinham say something about how such ads subtracted from the movement? How about bra burnings? How was this supposed to offput men? Most of them cheered as women went braless! The next thing you know, women will be serving in combat behind 50 cal machine guns, with cigs hanging out of their mouths, of course. Oh, that was partly done in Bond's "The World Is Not Enough", although Maria Grazia Cucinotta was the "Cigar Girl".

Paul, I believe that during the filming of the movie you mentioned, Grace Kelly met Prince Ranier of Monaco? And the rest is history...she had the most beautiful wedding dress...I imagine Betty was married to Don in one very similar...

Just an aside: I heard that Tippi Hedren was the only "cool blonde" of Hitchcock's who never put out when he propositioned her. According to her, the fact that she spurned ol" Hitch was what spelled the doom of her career. Wouldn't be surprised (other than the fact she couldn't act). I guess that means that Eva did (put out, that is)....??

That was the perfect movie for the transition between the era of Mad Men and a supposedly more sophisticated era with the double entendres. On the one hand we have the not so subtle train flying through the tunnel, yet they had to get married to have real sex. Disney meets Hitchcock.

Move forward to "Pretty Woman" and the scoundrel alpha who couldn't drive a stick-shift Lotus. (All of those locales where were I worked and lived, and the writer took scenes from my own life.) The double entendres were all gone by then.

Hi Paul! You're right, if you listen to the words of the jingle for Benson and Hedges it is so stupid! I don't remember Gloria Steinham's statement, but, it would make sense that she objected to the ad campaign.
Bra burnings...now, that is an area for debate. I'm not sure if the bras were ever burned, but I do know women took them off and threw them away in garbage barrels in public demonstrations. I think the first one was at a Miss America contest in Atlantic City.
As I look back on the protests/demonstrations in the mid to late 60's, it is amazing to me that the student protests and the feminist movement were all born from the Civil Rights movement.
Yes, here we are today with women in combat, we have "come a long way baby"!!

I think you're right about Grace and the Prince.

January Jones married Jon Hamm?

Melanie Griffith's mom, Tippi, was in a few A-movies such as "The Birds" (as Melanie Daniels) and the convoluted cold-war spy movie, "Torn Curtain", with Paul Newman and a gazillion other shows. She was something of an ice-princess - i.e. she didn't succumb and, yeah, she sure couldn't act.

I literally bumped into Alfred Hitchcock once in a Gelson's Market.

60's Child and Paul -ooh, those candy cigarettes - what an insidious thing to give kids. I wonder if the tobacco companies made them? I saw some in a retro store in San Francisco a few years ago and a mother was giving the clerk a piece of her mind.

No January didn't marry John! LOL... I was just recalling in the Carousel epi when the slide came up of the "Drapers' wedding with "Don" carrying "Betty" who wore an ornate wedding gown (that reminded me of Princess Grace's)... during the slide show to Kodak...oh and I think that was Julie Andrews with Paul in "Torn Curtain" Tell all about bumping into Hitchcock! Some on these boards do not like the reminiscing (sp?) but I do and I bet a lot of others do too!

.....I look foward to it.

Can't really think of another place where you can interact with a whole group of people who have the slightest idea about the bubble-gum (one-puff only!) and candy cigarettes (how did they get the tip ORANGE?)

Wracking my brains for other buried memories....

Hadn't thought about that stuff in YEARS. How precious are these memories!!

Thanks, you guys!!

Feminist Symbolism:

Some time ago, I read that there was once an event where bras were burned, but most of the time as you wrote, they were just discarded.

I had a girlfriend who needed a bra, but sometimes would take it off under her blouse when we were in public places. It was a strange, mesmerizeing activity for me. She was the same one depicted in "Pretty Woman", but she was a beauty contest winner in several contests, not a hooker, even though she often spoke of dreams about being a high-priced call girl. She ended up heading the casting for "Baywatch" and "discovered" many actresses such as Pam Anderson.

Hi Dry Manhattan! So glad you are enjoying the memories. The orange tip was probably some made with some kind of poisonous dye! Better we don't know...

Dry Manhattan, you should read back about a month and more? ago in the forums when "jamm54" and I (and LOTS of others) were going down memory lane all over the place about school memories and just "childhood in the '50s/'60s" in general. I need to go back and find all that (can't remember which specific topic it was under for the life of me) but we were all really getting with it. Jamm told about how her bro. would fill cans with rocks and use them for hand grenades and pop her in the head with them...and if she didn't fall over "dead" he'd pop her another one until she did! She's hilarious. Wish I could recall the title of the forum and exactly when that was. Sooooo many fun memories....

Paul, your girlfriend sounds like she was a beautiful, successful woman, and quite a character (public bra removal)! Sounds like she could add a lot of fun to Mad Men!

That sounds so violent what I just posted! I think (to clarify) what Jamm54 said was that he put small pebbles in soda pop cans--- which would not be nearly the "hit power" on one's noggin that regular tin cans and rocks would be! LOL Anyway it was so funny what everyone recalled in that forum. Jamm, are you out there???? Maybe you can recall...

SC Fan:
You're absolutely right about Julie Andrews, an ice-princess of another kind. (She used to win the Sour Apple award in the industry.)

There's nothing else interesting about crashing shopping carts together in the grocery store. I once almost ran into Leonard Nimoy in a Builder's Emporium and suppressed an exclamation of, "Spock!" (Like many males, I always rush through stores.)

A little more interesting was a neighbor who was standing in the street talking to someone in a car in front of me. I drove around them slowly and shouted, "You better get outta the street or you'll get mashed!" to Alan Alda.

How about Kier Dullea whom I caught taking his trash out to the street one morning on my way to work. This was the actor whose character was Dave in "Space Odyssey 2001". The dichotomy of Mr Spaceman taking out his trash was hilarious to me.

Harry Hamlin and Nicollette Sheridan used to live two doors from us back when they were married. Sometimes we got their snail mail and I would drop it off when she was home. My wife had no idea who either of them were.

Okay, before we get thrown out...

.....I heard that Tippi Hedren not only spurned Mr. Hitchcock's advances, but that she spat, "With a fat toad like you - never!" or something to that effect.

Apparently, Mr. Hitchcock vowed Ms. Hedren would never work in Hollywood again, and he wasn't too far wrong in my understanding.

Grace Kelly was Hitchcock's obsession, but she married Prince Ranier and said goodbye to Hollywood. I believe she tried once more to work for Mr. Hitchcock, and apparently it rankled the Prince or interefered with her responsibilities, so Miss Kelly retired for good.

Is that correct?

After that came Miss Hedren and then Kim Novak, who my mother always said was a cheap imitation of Grace Kelly - MEOW, Mom!!

Actually, my mother had a lot of "TMZ-style" gossip from the day. I just loved growing up getting "Old Hollywood" perspective from someone who was there.

I've always said that when an old person dies, it's really like a library burning down. I feel lucky that I got some of that first-hand (second-hand?)....

....ha! 60s child,

I am sitting here cackling like mad over your posts.... the rock thing was written to be funny, and I took it that way. A lot.

I agree about the disappearing threads.... I kind of use my profile to retrace back to threads where I was looking for input, but they don't seem to stick around very long. Guess AMC would have to get a bigger server for that!

Paul, I love your list of celebrity sightings! I am stranded in a surf town with 20-30-something stoners who wouldn't know Keir Dullea if he floated past their bong.

Sometimes I wish we could follow these slightly-off-topid threads, but I'm not complaining. AMC has made sure we have a very nice McDonald Land Playhouse, so I'm not bitching.

Dry Manhattan deserves an award for her piece above!

60's Child: Yeah, Suzanne was beautiful in ways I define as beautiful, not just pretty, but intelligent, fun and sexy. She found endless ways to catch me by surprise. The scene in "Pretty Woman" was toned down from what she actually did when I got home one time and she was dancing in a tie for my birthday, high heels and nothing else. She was also tall - 5'-10" - and very tall in heels, hence my Richard Gere's comment in the movie about how tall she was. Gere is my cousin; how weird is that! Suzanne was also more stunning than the actress.

One time I surpised her with a trip to Las Vegas (not the Opera House in San Francisco) to sit in the front row of a James Brown concert. The necklace came from Tiffany & Co, right next door to the Regent Beverly Wilshire. (I'm a Tiffany.) I also lost my wallet while we were in Vegas and called another girlfriend to send me some money by Western Union. Strange as this sounds, we were all good friends.

This other girlfriend's story is obliquely depicted in another Gere movie, "Runaway Bride" although her name is Linda. (Different writer, but same producer friend.) I mention this because Linda was the stereotype of a woman who depends entirely for her definition based on the man in her life. It's what led us to break up after more the six years - before getting married. Heartbreaking and no happy ending.

.....speaking of ashtrays.....remember the days when they had pockets for matchbooks and cigarettes built into them?

I still have the trendy-in-the-day, elegant square crystal ashtray from the Sixties, with slotted pockets on either side for matchbooks and cigarettes.

I still have the large, thick, red, wavy freeform-shaped glass ashtray from the coffee table, with the seed bubbles inside. "How did they get those bubbles in there??" I wondered....it reminded me of molten lava, only prettier.

I still have the stemmed, sterling silver filigree "cigarette holders" that used to grace each place setting at our holiday tables. I think they held a maximum five cigarettes.

The table also held two crystal ashtrays, one for either end, but they didn't usually come out until after the china was cleared, and dessert was on the table.

Somewhere I still have the set of tiny custom gold-leafed bamboo sliding matchbox covers, which Mom refilled with gold-tipped matches each year. Those were fascinating. Where did she get these gold-tipped matches?

Somewhere I still have the Christmas matchbox covers that my mother made, complete with tiny little Christmas elf heads on top!! What?? For my benefit?? I wish I could ask her now.

I still have my mother's gold-and-pearl encrusted cigarette case, which still smells like tobacco and Guerlain, even though it's been in a drawer for 40 years.

You can't really glamourize smoking on a public forum (who knows the readers' ages) without also talking about the outcome. One without the other wouldn't be right.

However, the more I peruse this forum, and live those days vicariously in my mind, the more I am being convinced that that maybe ignorance really IS bliss!!

Paul, are you a screenwriter? You sure have some cool Hollywood connections! Richard Gere's cousin?! sigh
Next time you see him tell him he looks great WITH the grey...hate it when he has to dye his hair for roles! I also think he is underrated (i.e. the scene in "An Officer and a Gentleman" ---"I got no where else to go!!!!" great acting--- he should have won an Oscar years ago... IMHO

....did you live in Malibu? those almost sound like Malibu stories.....

Fred Zinneman, the director of "High Noon" was also infatuated with Grace Kelly. Until the movie was severely recut in post, it would have bombed because of so many close-up shots of Grace.

I was going to mention Kim Novak as a cross between Grace Kelley and Tippi Hedren. Kim was an attractive blonde bomshell, but had an other worldiness about her. She was brilliant in "Vertigo", Hitchcock's best.

I lived in Bel-Air Estates for twenty years, so often ran into celebrities like Wilt Chamberlain, Barbara Carrera (a bad Bond girl), Farrah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neill. One of my favorites was when I was shopping in Bel-Air Foods and saw a woman dressed as a "bag lady" come in. I instantly recognized her and so did a teen boy who started following her around the whole store. It was hilarious as Gilda Radner played in character (probably just off the set). Her hubby, Gene Wilder sometimes shopped in the same store.

Prince lived down the street too. He used to park a pick Caddy in the carport. I was in his house once for a party when he was not there and got a tour. His closet was about 2,000 square feet.

....I'm so sorry..... I meant scfan re: the rocks. Love your "Peanuts" logo. Remember how Charlie Brown always got a rock in his stocking.....I can still hear him...

"I got a rock."

Paul you should write a book!

Paul, did you mention to Wilt that you hoped he wasn't getting behind in his "women I have f****d" 'tally' while he was taking a break outside his house?

Malibu:
As a teen, I worked while still a student @ Hughes Research Facilities in Malibu, overlooking the ocean from the top of the hill. I initiated the capture of the first hologram ever made while working for the inventor of the LASER.

One of my favorite celebrity encounters was a time when my father, a bona fide news photographer who knew all the celebs and they knew him (including the Rat Pack), invited a friend to our house when I was in high school. My dad suggest I take Dave out back to play ping pong. I barely hit the ball once out of 21 shots.

A couple of months later, I read that the technical advisor for the TV show "Kung Fu" was David Chow. I asked my dad if this was the same guy. (He appeared in the show in later episodes.) "Yeah, didn't you know?" This was the real Shaolin Priest who could catch an arrow on the fly. No wonder he could play a perfect game of ping pong.

.....whereas Grace Kelly and Tippi Hedren had that ethereal, icy mystery (and in Miss Kelly's case, a smoldering sensuality), to me Miss Novak had more of an "Everywoman" quality....

Her character in Vertigo (what a ride that film is!) was almost like the female counterpart to Jimmy Stewart's "Everyman," and I found her very relatable....

As to the whole "extracurricular" thing, I kind of got the impression that, by the time he began working with Eva Marie Saint, Mr. Hitchcock had both kind of gotten over it, and was too elderly and frail to do much about it.

Grace Kelly was his one and only truly, I guess.

It was, to my slim knowledge, never really established if this "extracurricular" interest was indeed acted upon..... possibly more by inference - a requisite "willingness," which seems to be the fuel that drives a lot of professional man/woman relationships.

Who knows - I'll bet Paul has a lot more "do tell" stories than he is letting on.....

Another fun 60s work is "Down With Love," a musical-comedy starring Ewan McGregor and Rene Zellweger. Very cute and sassy.

Dry Manhattan, I agree about "Down With Love" and another one that I saw recently that was very stylish and well written was "The Holiday" with Jude Law, Cameron Diaz and Kate Winslet (sp?) Eli Wallach was so cute in it. It was kind of about the "old Hollywood"...Eli played a screenwriter in Hollywood's "golden age".

....crap! so sorry!!

scfan and 60s child - I just can't get it straight today!!

(honestly, I think it's the two orange icons (i'm serious) that are confusing me!!! always did have trouble with those damned spatial tests in school - are those even used any more??)

Wilt:
I was standing in line at the checkstand when Wilt came in. (He often came in to get freshly cut steaks from the butcher.) The guy in front of me turned around towards me, following Wilt with his eyes. Looking at me he asked, "Isn't he somebody?" "Oh, yeah! He's somebody all right."

Am I a screen writer? Yes, I've written three and a half screen plays, but that's not my profession.

"Pretty Woman" presents a very stilted view of my business, although I've been much more diversified. (I was curious how the writer, Lawton, would depict me and was disappointed.) I'm not a corporate raider, but I've built billion-dollar businesses following up on Ross Perot's outsourcing business (nothing like what the politicians portray). I've financed and produced features as a sideline and refuse to be credited, but many producers and studio execs know who I am.

I could tell you stories about Eisner, Katzenberg, Speilberg and others. I've been confused for Speilberg more than once (before he turned wizened and gray). Once in a conference room with Jeffrey, someone came in, looked at me and quizzed, "Steve?" I responded casually, "No, he's the little guy." I immediately thought I had made a big mistake with Jeffrey there (Shrek's alter ego but sized like Lord Farquar, based on Esner's character), but he laughed uproarishly.

Don't give it a second thought, Dry Manhattan, we're an understanding bunch (most of us) Just chalk it up to a "senior moment" I am "only" 57 and I have them already...Alzheimers????? "Ohhhhh Nooooo" (Mr. Bill)

Hi Paul! I don't know what to say...I get tongue tied just thinking of the people you have met and known! You should write a book like book like scfan suggested.

Dry Manhattan, I'm glad you like my Peanuts logo. My favorite TV specials from the 60's! I never knew I was a fan of Jazz until years later I realized the Peanuts music is Jazz. I now own a few of the Vince Giraldi Trio's CD's.
And yes, poor Charlie Brown got a bag of rocks in his trick or treat bag on the Great Pumpkin cartoon.
When my son was young and we would watch the specials on video tapes, I would tell him that I could only see them once a year when they were on TV, he was shocked!
In the Peanuts Christmas special Lucy tells Charlie Brown to get "a great big shiny aluminum Christmas tree". I was trying to explain to my son what that was, then on day I was in an antique store and found a table sized aluminum tree. What a kick! I remember those trees with the spinning color disk!!
Since this is supposed to be a MM site, I wonder which MM character will have one of those trees this year?

You know, you people are just too funny and entertaining! I come on here telling myself "I'll just check out the forums for a bit...." and before I know it 2 hours have gone by (3??) It's addictive, isn't it?? Bring on MM tomorrow night!

Oh, that's right - thought it was the stocking....

Believe it or not, a Charlie Brown Christmas is still our main theme every year, and is often playing in the background at our holiday get-togethers. I'ts a great, timeless piece, what can I say.

To this day, I describe a general (sometimes unidentifiable) funk as a "black squiggle day" because whenever Snoopy or Woodstock got upset or frustrated, there would be the balloon over their heads filled with a big black squiggle.

Sorry for the off-topic - I digress!

"Down with Love" from the 60s with Ewan and Renée? They would have been babies. (jus pullin ur leg)

For Hollywood characterization, I liked "The Player" with Tim Robbins.

Here's some interesting trivia. I watched "Die Hard" for the first time and exclaimed, "Damn! They blew up my office over the weekend!" Nakatomi Plaza is actually the Fox Plaza Building @ 2121 Avenue of the Stars. I also had offices two blocks up the street @ 1901 Avenue of the Stars in Century City, all a short distance from the locale in "Pretty Woman". I also used to hang out @ the Beverly Hilton Hotel for business luncheons.

In "Transformers", the final battle scenes were shot around another of my offices in downtown Los Angeles in the Eastern Columbia Building - covered in blue terra cotta with a clock tower. I had a big offie in Room 711 for many years back in my twenties.

....so then it was Theodore Maiman and not Gordon Gould you worked with.....?

You're an entrepreneur.... or a bad case of multiple personalities - ha!

How many careers have you had??

Dry Manhattan, I know what you mean about the colors. I think the schools still use the tests to check for color blindness.
You know what reminds me of those tests? Have you recently entered a computer site (ticket sales come to mind), where you have to type in the colored numbers and letters that are coded on the site?
The Charlie Brown Christmas CD is my all time favorite!

Good grief, Dry Manhattan! You're a wealth of information. Yep. Dr Ted. He and I were discussing what to shoot for the first hologram and he first suggested the facade of the facility. Because it was so brightly lit at night we thought that might be a problem for the imaging and we might have to turn off the floodlights. I suggested the roadsign at the entrance and that's what we shot.

SC Fan: Does that mean your a Trojan Alumni? I'm a Bruin, but we obviously get along.

Time warps: My daughter came up to me once and asked about a show on Nikelodeon. I told her we didn't have Nik when I was her age (just to put her off).. She walked away, then came back. "So, dad, what did you and your sisters do when you were little?" My eyebrows were so stuck, I think I had to pull them down.

Mad Men:
So, do yall think it's good, very good, very-very good...?

We had one of those aluminum Christmas trees in the 70's - it was 10 years old and no one wanted it anymore. However, my Mom referred to it as the "Silver" tree. It came on a stand that spun around. It was only a little over four feet tall, so we placed it on a big block to raise it to six feet. It was so embarrasing, I wouldn't invite my friends over during the Christmas season. On Christmas eve that ugly beast fell over and broke almost all our ornaments. It was all bent up and unfixable. The tree committed suicide. All of us kids stood up and cheered!! We all got punished, but we didn't care - no more Christmas' with the Disco Tree.

....oh dear, a syntax nazi....heh heh.....

....meant to say "60s homage" blah blah blah...

Ashtrays: I was hoping someone would bring those up again. The variations in crystal were amazing.

After mulling Dry Manhattan's memories, I realize that the smoking culture was very rich and incredibly nuanced, and contains a lot of metaphors for people being lulled into destructive behaviors on a mass scale. We could probably expand this into politics, but... nah.

Even though they've only scratched the surface, this is why I'm falling in love with Mad Men.

Dry Manhattan, the tree committed suicide!! I am roaring!! Good thing is wasn't a "killer tree"!
Better a suicidal tree than a homicidal tree I always say!

.....Drink&Smoke, laughing so hard....

Paul, one of my favorite small antiques is a cigarette/ashtray combination figurine. It's made of brown wood, and the cig. box is etched with a beautiful hunting dog (pointer I think), the lid comes off for the cigs. It probably dates later than the 60's. It's so unique. I have noticed a lot of ashtrays in antique stores lately.

"The [Disco] Tree committed suicide." ROFL!

Mad Men probably won't have any Christmas scenes considering it's airtime schedule.

"We want more! We want more!"

.....60s child,

Call me a lunatic, but those completely unbeckoned "type letters here" boxes absolutely incense me.

First of all, I'll type when I'm damned well ready, and not before.

Secondly, it's getting now so that I can't even read them.

Are you aware you are performing a service for some company who is trying to correct badly scanned documents?

Evidently, we are all caught up with the legible batches, and now they are feeding us the rejects.

In a real role-switch, we are doing what OCR software apparently can not.

And I object. It's like the maquiladoras and their child labor slaves.

Only with letters.

Paul, no not a "Trojan alumni" nor a "Bruin"....guess I missed something...what say I to make you ask that?

.....60s child,

Aha! It's NOT just me with the Alzheimer's.

(I shouldn't even talk like that. It's just wrong.)

Homicidal Tree:
Let us all remember than Sonny Bono was killed by a tree. Let's all bow our heads in commemoration of a great talent. (Not him, but his wife.)

SC is a short acronym for University of Southern California.

Optical letters: This is a security issue that prevents scammers from loading up on the site. They can write code that creates multiple entries or identity scams, but it won't go through unless the characters are actually read and retyped.

Suicidal Christmas Tree!!!! HILARIOUS! You guys are the best free entertainment around (next to MM--and it and this both only cost electricity-which ain't free but it's less than gas to go to the movies which stink right now anyway. Even the New-Indiana-Jones-Movie was not up to it's hype. Well, we are all so far off topic (Mad Men and Smoking the last I heard!) it's pitiful. But fun.

.....I thought Sonny killed the tree.....damn! I just can't keep it all straight.

As an aside, who didn't cry when Cher delivered her eulogy? I grew up watching the Sonny and Cher show, then just Cher.

I think I still tear up when I see it on VH-1 or whatever....

Paul, oh, now I understand...SC=Southern Cal...however, the SC in "scfan" stands for "Sterling Cooper". Poor Sonny Bono. To hear Cher tell it he was a real tyrant...but she loved him anyway. awwwwwwww

SC Fan: Your icon looks like Sandra Dee.

My dad knew Sonny when he lived in Palm Springs and Sonny was Mayor. He was no where near the jerk he portrayed on the show. Of course, he was killed by a tree.

I liked Cher in "Moonstruck" with Nicky Cage.

That is a bad way to go slamming into a tree...eeeeeewwwwww The same thing happened to Tony Danza of "Taxi" fame...and he was just starting to mend when the earthquake hit...he told about trying to brace himself in a doorway with a body cast on! It was funnier when he told it...

Sterling Cooper! How clever. Are you a DD fan too?

Sonny did discover Cher and molded her into a big name talent. Supposedly, in the early days they got alone well.

Paul, Yes,it is Sandra Dee (Alexandra Zuck--see why they changed it?) People said I looked like a cross between her and Colleen Corby back in the '60s when I was a youngun. I just thought she was a good symbol for the '60s/Mad Men era...Gidget and all that...

Cigarettes:

The nagging notion in the back of my mind is that smoking in a household almost becomes like a member of the family.

I joke with my husband all the time that he loves his cigarettes more than he loves me. It's the first thing he thinks about in the morning, and often the last thing at night.

Sometimes I mess with him, first thing in the morning, by telling him I accidently threw away his pack with the previous night's trash.

It's fun to watch him come apart at the seams.

It reminds me of that Cox commercial with the pile of money running around. That's smoking to me - an almost non-smoker. Necessarily and understandably, a love-hate relationship.

For sure, it is a partnership that no mate can rent asunder, and a constant reminder to value each and every day, above ground.

What a great day! I didn't get anything done, didn't go anywhere, and had the best time.

Thank you to all you guys, for a place to come and go "bleah," without judgment or censure.

And, in the words of Sly and the Family Stone:

"Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)."

Ciao for now!!

Of course, Cher has been rumored to be of a different persuasion.

Paul, if ya mean "Don Draper" the answer is very definitely YES.

....hey! I might be cheap, but I'm not free!!

Ciao Dry Manhattan. You've made my day too.

"Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)."

Bye Dry Manhattan, you rock! Enjoyed the read!

....(Paul, the AMC Mad Men forum is a very persuasive site......)

Multi-tasking while watching "Invasion", I'm surprised that Nicole is running around in a 50s-style bullet/rocket bra borrowed from Mad Men. Oops! She just took off her sweater and the bullet effect disappeared. Oh, what these Hollywood types do to an actress.

Isn't this the third remake of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"?

I agree. I think it exceeds "Sopranos" by a long shot.

[I thought you were gone... Have you switched to a dry martini?]

.....heh heh - she had formal training at the Method Nipple Academy.

.....(my apologies....'nuff said....)

Nothing that can't be accomplished by spending time in Dave Letterman's studio in the old Ed Sullivan Theater that he keeps @ 53 degrees. Brrrrr.

Au revoir.

It will be interesting to see how long this thread persists.

....I just knew the minute my back was turned you were going to be bad!

Git 'em, gals!!

(kidding...)

Thanks again, all y'all!

Ahh, as a poor twenty-something who comes from a living line of non-smokers, I only get to sit and imagine the days you all lived. I do remember candy cigarettes, but they were gone before I was in first grade. By the time I was ten nearly all proof of public smoking in hospitals, waiting rooms, airports, etc. was gone. I barely remember the fun of pulling the knobs on cigarette vending machines or flicking the buttons on those public ashtrays near elevator doors. I'm stuck with absorbing the culture through media, but it's not quite the same.

There's one piece I do have, though—my late great-grandmother had a fabulous set of stacking amber-colored carnival glass ashtrays that went with an entire collection of dishes. They ranged in size from nearly a luncheon plate to a demitasse, and I always thought of them as a collection of beautiful topaz gems. It's such a shame they were all sold off after her death.

If I ever smoked, though, I would certainly use a dainty cigarette holder. I already use a fabulous sterling silver cigarette case as a wallet in the times when I need to go without a purse.

I'll trade the epidemiology of the 1960s for today's.
Better children in a married household--siblings with the same last names as their parents (who smoke) than the chaos that passes for a family today.
Trust me on this one: what's coming up is worthless. You don't see it because you travel in educated circles. I don't, not at work.
Ever wonder where Jerry Springer gets his "guests?"
It's not made up. These people exist--in abundance.
But the elites focus on smoking.

.....demolino, i wish you could view the post (and my comments) about the nuclear family.....

good luck with that - i'm having trouble tracking what i did yesterday on this site...

that's GOOD news, right??

right?

You know, it's not that mysterious.
We were in Moscow recently and you're allowed to smoke everywhere.
It wasn't oppressive (I don't smoke and my daughter has mild asthma).
There is no non-smoking section in restaurants, but no one smoked during a meal.
I'll tell you: the atmosphere is freer over there (if you're not a journalist--but that's not a mad man thing).

it's about FREEDOM.
ultimately, that's what i like about MM.
life--life that we all remember in one way or another--was freer.

....MadShrubbery (Python fan?)

Whatever else is said or portrayed on either the show or in this forum, here is one perspective on smoking.

In the 70s, it was my job every day to run next door to the gas station, with a signed "note," for my mother's Viceroys. They cost fifty cents.

In the 90s, it was my job every day for a year to drive to the nursing home, and make sure my mother's oxygen stayed on her face when she got delirious and ripped it off.

And those were her "good" days.

However sexy, magnetic and glamorous smoking appears, I assure you it is not.

....what's up with the time stamp on this site?

i'm in the Pacific Standard Time zone, and it's 6:47 am, not 11:47 am.....

I recall growing up with adults - parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends- smoking all around me. I recall sneaking smokes in the bathroom at home and at school, and in public with a stealthful cupped-down hand. I remember being warned by my parents that I better not be caught smoking but at age 16 being told by my Dad: "Son, I know you smoke. Do it in front of me, not behind my back" - an acknowledgment of my manhood, like being told to be careful on dates, or buying Trojans in a store. You can't duplicate those buzzy, sexy, and fun times when you first came of age - wouldn't substitute them for anything.

@ Dry Manhattan

The show ruined my cred when it came to my username; it's half dedication to Python, half dedication to my favorite album, Mad Season by Matchbox Twenty, and I've had this username on the Internet for 8 years!

Cigarettes aren't attractive—it's the paraphernalia that I find intriguing.

Hello everyone!
I was born in 1965 and my mom told me she chose not to breastfeed me because it would have required her to quit smoking.
Unfortunately she smoked while bottle feeding me...I have asthma but I had a wonderful childhood..very close to my parents ,siblings and other family members.

There was a statement about the family structure of the 60s how it was better than the structure now..
I am sorry but the single parent situation existed in the 60's.Especially in the AA community.

mad maniac:
not nearly as much.
and it wasn't acceptable.

Lets not get to judgmental of our parents, grandparents, and/or the characters, by placing our modern day standards on them. Cigarettes kill but should we write them out of history? All the memories everyone mentioned above are supposed to be invoked when you watch the show.

quick question - do the actors actually smoke? it looks so real, just wondering how they can replicate this without giving everyone on set lung cancer. fake cigs?

would love an explanation, if anyone knows. thanks!

@JGG

They use herbal cigarettes. I believe they have the choice of plain, vanilla or cherry, but don't quote me on that.

OMG....I remember so well when my little brother was born in 1964. There he was in all his 5 day old glory in his basinet (located in the den). My Dad, the proud father ,sat next to him as neighbors trailed in and out of the house. And next to my father was a pack of L&M cigs....and blue smoke swirling around enough to choke a horse. Oh...and I remember the lamp shades were always a nasty shade of yellow because of the eternal smoke!

Growing up in the 60's, I remember square dark green glass ashtrays all over the place (our house and neighbors). There were also the ashtrays made of small tiles that were children's summer projects at the playground, which had people who were paid by the town to come and do art and sports with kids. (It was great.)

But by the early 70's, lots of people were trying to quit. My Dad was a heavy smoker and, wanting to quit, finally made a bet with a neighbor that whoever started smoking first had to pay the other a large sum of money (don't remember how much). She came to the door one evening after 3 days begging to be let off the hook, and my Dad was relieved. He switched to cigars after that, which stank up the house, and then finally quit after a long, painful process. He's 77 now and the doctor told him he still has spots on his lungs after 30+ years of not smoking!

paul,
my parents smoked in the car with the windows rolled up & all 3 of us kids in the backseat!!

the airlines gave away mini-5 packs of cigs to the adults & candy cigs to the kids!

my how things have changed, thank goodness!

i still struggle with smoking because of my parents & family.
my grandmother died of enphezema because her husband & all 6 kids smoked around her, she never smoked a cigarette in her life. my mother died @ age 54 from pancreatic cancer, directly related to smoking. a 50 year old friend just had a lung removed, she quit 6 years ago. countless friends & family have died from smoking, & yet i still do it. i am stupid, i know, but the addiction is so powerful.

the show has got the smoking thing right, ashtrays on the side of the bed & in every room of the house. the 1st thing my parents did when they got out of bed was light a cigarette.
i have a picture of my dad holding my sister as a baby with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth.in almost every picture of my mother, she has a cigarette in her hand.
but there was no smoking at the dinner table, at least. but i knew alot of families who did.

there are alot of interesting people on this website.
please read my blog, ILLUSTRATORS DURING THE 1960'S.you might find it interesting. i've already talked to 1 producer who loved my idea! 7/31/08 & 8/15/08.

all of the smoking comments are really interesting, as are all of the true life tales.. Sonny and Cher? OH, back to that wonderful variety show, and the song, "I Got You Babe.: Anyway, the smoking on this show? Gosh, is there a scene where you DON'T see it? However, my favorite so far? When Pete and Trudy are in the doctor's office and the doctor is SMOKING while he is talking to them about conceiving... it's just beyond comprehension! And a close second is when Betts is in her kitchen with her pregnant friend who is PUFFING away....

it's all about the way it was... and this show is SO SO good!

Yeah, sucks2bebobbyandsally, and the gyno smoking all the while examining Peggy (pelvic!!!) for her Rx for her birth control pills! Simply craaaazy!

....can't believe i forgot this - if anyone is still tuning in here.....

how could i forget about the movie "Marnie," with Tippi Hedrern AND Sean Connery (meow!), but was so dark and disturbing.....

it's hard to describe, you just have to watch.....

scfan??

60'schild???

anyone??

...oh yeah.....

Paul, are you Figaro?

Let's remember, the parents of todays messed up generation (fractured families) were the children of the 50's and 60's. And they must have learned from their parents as well. All wasnt sunshine and roses then either. The big difference is that divorce wasnt "acceptable" back then.

I cannot believe this will work!

Upon completing a dinner out at a restaraunt, my parents would smoke a cigarette and put it out in the plate! Gross! Remember when people would smoke incessantly on airplanes? On some flights, one can still see where the ashtrays were located.