Dry Manhattan,
This is hilarious and so true! My perfect meal is rice, potatoes, and pasta with a side of beef. That's why I love working on the sets, it's a complete buffet of everything. That lovely Sunday evening with the Drapers in bed--it was 7:30 and Betty hadn't cooked! Obviously, not a priority in the Draper household and when she agrees to make something, it's grilled cheese sandwiches. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CARBS AND FAT THAT IS? Oh, I would love to have one right now, yeah,yeah!
And yes, they do get testy with their drink and the kids get the raw end of the deal. It was so great to see the slice of life of the Drapers that Sunday, though. I loved that segment even though you know it's so untrue, but Don tries and I know he wishes he could really have a great home life. And, we know he Can't!

I think they forgot because they had been drinking all day!

I have to submit an emphatic qualifier that my comments regarding the characters of Bobby and Sally Draper were IN NO WAY meant to disrespect Kiernan Shipka and Aaron Hart.

These young actors absolutely blow me away and in retrospect, at least for me, they just about stole Episode 4.

Dry Manhattan,
The characters of Bobby and Sally Draper are exceptional! Why my best scene of all is Don with Bobby and when he says, "we have to get you a new daddy". I was blown away! It's Emmy worthy. And, that litlle girl! Her expressions are excellent. Yes, I agree and thank that you made this assertion.

Where did we get the idea that Bobby has ADD? He seems like a normal 6-year-old boy. There'd e something wrong with a kid his age who DOESN'T rough-house and ignore his mother's commands.

Bobby is just "all boy" as my late grandmother would say. I had a male cousin so klutzy I thought they were going to rename the ER entrance for him, he made so many trips. My own son nearly took me out a couple of times with flinging his toys around (kid had a great arm) when he was around 3. For his 7th birthday I had 15 boys in my house for a party. I thought the house moved off its foundation by an inch in the two hours they played indoors; it was pouring outside, so there went the outside games.

As for food, yes we were a largely meat & potatoes generation. My mother always served a veggie, plus a plate of raw carrots, celery and radishes but really, they never made a dent. Salad? Maybe in the summer, for the grown-ups. I never saw a kid eat a salad. We had spaghetti on Wednesdays, meatloaf on Thursday, fish in some form on Fridays (I hated creamed tuna and peas on toast), soup and sandwiches for Saturday night, a roast or baked chicken on Sundays, leftovers on Monday, and Tuesday might be pork chops, burgers, or hotdogs and beans. There were a few variations (Swiss steak, goulash, turkey at Thanksgiving, ham for Easter.) Mom was allergic to shellfish and Dad hated lamb so they never showed up on our table.

We ate out maybe once or twice a year; fast food places didn't exist locally until the early 60s. Carrols (an early franchisee of Burger King) opened their hamburger place around 1960/1; small fries were 10 cents and a plain burger was 15 cents, I think.

We bagged our lunches in high school, thank goodness. To this day I hate Spanish rice as served in our grade school. Give me a PBJ any day. One of my sisters went through high school eating a peanut butter sandwich, 10 Pringles and 2 Ho-Hos - for 4 solid years! She's the skinniest one of the bunch of us to this day.

SoFia Kate:

I knew that was coming, so thanks for bringing it up. Really, I was extrapolating on Bobby's recent behavior.

I guess what I was saying is that today, what do you want to bet that Bobby would be hastily labelled as a hyperactive kid or suffering from ADD. Again, it's the times.

But seriously, with a diet like that, I'm guessing anyone could exhibit hyperactive behavior, and possibly did. I don't know enough about it, and also think it's overblown in this era.

Personally, I agree with the "all boy" parenting theory, and would never agree to dope my kid just because he is diagnosed (by a stranger) with the latest trendy Prevention Magazine disease of the week.

I love Bobby to death in this episode. That shot of his little back, sitting on the bed, just killed me. Who wouldn't act out a little in that household. They are all out of control.

Auburn Annie,
Thanks for sharing. Seems like you had a very well organized schedule of menus. To think that you remember what you ate every single day! But, again the emphasis was not on veggies like today.
SoFlaKate,
I agree with you no signs of ADD for Bobby. I think Dry Manhattan was just joking. But, you're right he's just a "boy" and one that I could just sweep up and hug. What a cutie! Betty was the one acting like a spoiled brat!

Oh, yes, re: ADD! People nowadays have a tendency to diagnose health problems because of the commercials and whatnot, but they use this term loosely. Even my dog came into scrutiny when I was walking him in the park and he became excited to see a person who was gagging over him. She says, "he's so active does he have ADD? then left laughing. I thought why did she say that? Man, I thought, they have this term in the tip of their tongue and use it for anything they don't understand. I still think Dry Manhattan was only joking.

You know, as baby boomers, we may have lived on red meat, potatoes, Kool-Aid, Coco Krispies, mac & cheese and an occassional moonpie here and there, yet I do not recall ANY of my friends or family being "stout." I don't recall any kids with learning or behavioral disabilities, other than the occassional "problem child." I don't even remember anyone with allergies!

We may have gotten measles, mumps and chicken pox, yet we were a healthy bunch of kids. We weren't emaciated bean poles by any means, but we were normal, healthy and active.

We went out and played. We didn't have micro-managed schedules and "play-dates." We didn't have computers and the television was never "on" during the day, unless you were sick.

We also didn't have fast-food on a large scale. If you were taken to a McDonald's, Big Boy, etc., it was a treat. Pizza was also a treat. Today, you cannot escape it. Our local high school cafeteria looks like the food court at the mall.

Today, despite nutritional awareness, kids are obese. It's not only because of what they eat (children do need certain fats for their brains to develope normally), but because of their LIFESTYLE.

We boomers may have been exposed to second-hand smoke, asbestos-insulated schools and so-called unhealthy diets. There were unchecked levels of lead in our toys, crayons and house-paint. 90% of our mothers drank liquor and smoked while pregnant, yet we are the healthiest and longest-living generation in history.

Let's see what the future holds for our children, who were raised in a more "enlightened" era.

Thanks Nora Paradiso, you're too kind. If you knew me, you would know that, however heavy the subject, however outspoken, there will always be lots of humor and probably sarcasm too. If there weren't, who the he11 would want to read it?

To MichelleKay:

So it was just me then??

(HA.)

I disagree about Bobby. I think there is a little something going on with him. As I said before, he reminds me of Adam ( Don's brother ) but as a child. Very sweet and loving, totally devoted to Don ... but perhaps a little "slow" ( as they would say back then. ) The child isn't testing authority. He seems to do things without realizing it ... or understanding the consequences ( such as when he put his mouth on the hot waffle iron. ) The little boy has that same sweet innocence that Adam had when HE hugged Don, before Don walked out on him in Season 1.

Oh, and I do like the fact that the child actress who plays Sally is not a pencil-thin perfect "child fashion model" type. She looks like we all looked back then ... normal weight.

>>> To MichelleKay:
So it was just me then??

In what regard? Being "stout" ? I said I didn't know or see any obese children. Today, you see seriously overweight children EVERYWHERE. It certainly wasn't at epidemic levels when we were children. You'd see the occassional child who may or may not have had a health-related issue which contributed to obesity. Now, it's everywhere.

I mean, come on, when we have to have public service commercials, telling kids to turn off the television & computer and go outside, it's pretty bad.

yup. it's a different world. did you see the blog post about the 60s phrases, and about how kids don't get outside anymore? that was great.

kids don't GO outside just to play anymore. they don't even know that that is..... they are too busy with an avalanche of electronic devices and rushing from one responsibility to the other.

remember the summer mornings when kids left the house until dark, and parents didn't worry until the kid was late?

i was thinking how, now, i wouldn't even let my kid go to the park across the street alone for fifteen minutes.

it's a different world, and i am just now realizing that is why i hang on this series.

because of advances in medicine, nutrition and health, people live longer now, but i think i might trade that in to go back to a simpler time, where it wasn't so hard to understand the rules.

those folks ate, drank and smoked, didn't "work out," and might have been happier as a result. that would be an interesting poll.

maybe ignorance really is bliss!

Yeah, Dry Manhattan, you're so right. I came across this little ditty in AARP mag: It's part of an article "50 Reasons to Love Being 50":

#46 Because You Grew Up In An Age Before Video Games:
When we were kids we played outside. Our bodies were hard-breathing little rainbows of energy and earth--red cheeks from running, brown hands from mud, green-grass streaks on our pants. We dreamed of grandiose forts that never got built, had sword fights with sticks while riding our bikes (okay, that was more of a boy thing). But we lived, baby. We lived! Unlike so many kids today, whose every micromanaged, remote-control moment is seemingly spent indoors. Oh, how the play times have changed:

Then:Eating wild berries in the woods Now:Eating Lunchables on a play date Then: Climbing trees Now: Allergy tests Then:Walking with pals along train tracks Now: Walking with parents on a leash

Stickball/Xbox
"Be home by dark"/"Answer your cell phone when I call"
Summer camp/Fat camp
Doing cannonballs off the high dive/Wearing floaties in the shallow end
Skinned knees/Carpal tunnel
Jumping on a trampoline/What's a trampoline?

Sad, huh?

Yes that article is sad/nostalgic. But, it makes me grateful, too. I am so glad I grew up when I did! I have the most wonderful memories! I know all of you "over-50's" (including me!---waaaaayyy over 50!) will agree.

Dry Manhattan, thanks for starting this thread. Great comments from everyone! The memories...

You mentioned Kool- Aid, and a flood of memories came back to me! I can remember my mother making a pitcher of it with a CUP of sugar which is what the mixture called for!
What kid in the 60's didn't love Kool-Aid?
No wonder!!

I have a plastic Kool-Aid the Kid pitcher on one of my kitchen shelves. I found it in an antique store. I knew I was getting old when years ago, I started finding items from my generation in Antique stores!!

Hi Nora! You are so right about the little boy who plays Bobby. He broke my heart in that scene also!
I also felt so bad for Sally and Bobby when Sally said she was hungry and it was 7:30pm! Betty forgot to feed the kids?! Maybe because she and Don started drinking at breakfast that day?

My family's eating habits were quite different from what was served on Don and Betty table. I've concluded this has a lot more to do with the disparity between the income levels of our families.

The same time Betty was serving frozen fish sticks and macaroni and cheese, my family ate the vegetables gathered from the garden we tended in the back yard of our (inner city) house (including lettuce, onions, and the radishes I HATE to this day). Consequently, I can eat almost any vegetable (if you give me a piece of bread). Our meals included meat or fish, but they were never the centerpiece of the meal and your plate better not look like that's all you planned to eat. The women in my family were great cooks (1950-60s) and all took pride in feeding their families on low wage jobs...They were strong and resourceful..they had to be. Big roasts, turkeys or hams made special occasion appearances, and reappeared in different forms until their final appearance as hash at breakfast or lunch. I grew up having dinner as a family every night, passing the steaming bowls of food around the table and talking about our day. Every meal looked like the dinners in the movie, Soul Food.

If you didn't drive (many women didn't back then) or own a car, shopping at a big grocery store was not a daily occurrence--and probably was a monthly event. My maternal grandparents had a large farm on the outskirts of town where we watched their pigs grow, gathered eggs from the chicken coops and shucked feed corn in the barn. I'm glad I can cook a meal from a pantry...it helps as I try to maintain healthy eating habits as I grow older.

I'll tell you what we did have in common, though....grape Kool-aid!!!!

Grape Kool-Aid, elixer of the Gods!!!

Kool Aide was 20 packages for $1.00 and cherry and lime were our favorites!! Sugar was cheap too and you had month's worth of beverages at all times. We had a large wooden spoon that was dyed red from mixing Kool-Aide. I remember that old red spoon cracking on my brother's bottom one day from being so water soaked. We had a good laugh and thought our spanking days were over...until a new wodden spoon made it into the drawer. Bummer!!

You all are sooooo funny! Anyone remember fixing our beloved Grape Kook-Aid like this (in summer):
Pour it in an ice tray and after about an hour or so in freeezer, put old popsicle sticks in it (the sticks would stand semi-straight up by then) and you'd have your own grape "cube"sicles? Or, you could put the cubes in your glass of Kool-Aid too and have a sort of slush. Yum

greytone, what a great post. and how lucky you were to have all that. that's how everyone should eat anyway, and you got an early start. you'll definitely outlive me!

.... about the income disparity - that sounds like a definite factor, but after the responses to my "Emergency Rooms?" post, i am now wondering how different any experience was for any of us at that time, simply based on our location, and possibly even age.

it seems that, even in the same state, some of us had radically different experiences simply because that city was "on another page" right then.

remember it was a time of great change, and without the information superhighways we have now, the world was a lot less homogenous in those days.

another possible factor might be family structure. you indicated you grew up in a large family.... unfortunately, that's definitely not true for everyone.

finally, i don't want to make this "dump on Betty" day, but she doesn't seem to put a whole lot of time into cooking.... she's home all day... just sayin'....

again, your posts are always great.

I don't think Betty knows how to cook. She was a girl who went to boarding school and had her meals cooked for her. The rest of us had to learn to cook at an early age. We had more chores than homework. The opposite of kids today. Maybe we did have it better?

...thanks for your comments, zebra, Dry Manhattan, I'm hanging out here to kill time before the West Coast broadcast of tonight's show...I'm too anxious...

Dry Manhattan....would your conclusion include someome like me who was born and raised in the midwest (Nebraska)...five in our family (2 parents, 3 kids)...? Our generation probably did have similar experiences as a group, but income and culture certainly dictated how we ate, don't you think?

My mother passed away recently, and I've done quite a bit of genealogical research on her life since her death. She was a child born during the Depression, and the foundation of the way she raised us is based on that fact. I still think she hid the first nickel she made! She was the 'Carla' of Mad Men; cleaning the houses, cooking, feeding and listening to the children of anonymous households like the Drapers.

I mention that because I still contend that each of us have quite a story to tell. Weiner doesn't have time to tell them all, so I am certain I won't see my mother's story on TV. I am certain it is just as powerful because the 'search for self' occurs in every social strata and impacts all families similarly.

I just think it's marvelous that our children, that next generation, will get the opportunity to watch this show and understand just a little more about the world we lived in and the options we had, and thus gain a fuller understanding of our motivations.

I know, I know...it's fiction..but, life is bigger than fiction, isn't it?.....

i really agree about the stories to tell. my mother is from the depression also, but we had very different upbringings....i really want to get into that, but i'm supposed to be cleaning the BBQ (can't peel myself away!). i saw an earlier post by you and i was concerned.... so sorry about your mother - been there a lot. mo lata.

Auburn Annie - yes, my mom had us on a dinner schedule, too! We could always tell what day it was by what she served, like clockwork, never any deviation unless it was a holiday. And there were always three cakes in our house, home made, of course - the one she just baked, the one we were still working on and the one being thrown away because we all were so sick and tired of cake.

Auburn Annie and flowerpower....I loved hearing about the repeating menu your mothers served. I remember the 'fish on Friday' part of the cycle... My family didn't have that sort of schedule, but instead, when my mother served a meal, usually they had the same side dishes time after time. We always had a salad, bread (corn or Wonder) and a drink at our meals; beyond that, our meals were trios of foods, two of which were always vegetables. My niece and I have running conversations on what food 'goes' with what.

The Draper's table served meatloaf for dinner in this episode. (I actually saw Betty pick up a fork and chew something!) Did you notice what else was served? Mashed potatoes, corn, greenbeans. Seeing that made me think of the food combinations my mother served.

For example, at our house meatloaf was always served with mashed potatoes and peas. To my niece, the combination should be meatloaf, rice and asparagus. lol.... I laugh and squeal as I tell her those food combinations are yucky!..and she tells me, "No, they're not!"...
I'm sure there are repeating combinations in your house, too!

More?....fried chicken, mashed potatoes and kernel corn...pork chops w/gravy, rice, mixed vegetables....fried catfish, coleslaw, honey-carrots...barbeque, baked beans, potato salad...spaghetti, peas and carrots, (something...I forget what....lol)

Reading these posts I can remember growing up early 70"s my mother being a war child (she was in Germany during wwII ) which I can only guess is equivalent to the great depression. I also remember having meat,Potatoes and a vegetable. I can also remember being hungry (My Dad was a freelance illustrator on Lexington ave so i guess it was either famine or gluten ,but I also remember having a ham or chicken and it becoming another meal, I remember dinner always a 6:00pm sharp. No believe it or not no kool aide in my house only juice or milk. However i have picked up my mothers habits I still am inventive with left overs (my roaster chickens turn into Pot Pies and sometimes even soup. I have dinner with my family every night and believe it or not I did not micromanage my kids time and I remember when they were little I used to kick them outside to play -however it was not like when I grew up when there were still woods and fields to play in.

I've seen the Draper kids eat a vegetable. In a Season One episode, there was a close up shot of Betty putting fishsticks and mixed vegetables on the kid's plastic plates which were a motley, but predominantly green color. I remember this detail because it took me back: we had plates like that and food like that when I was a kid. ( I was 5 years old in 1960; the same general age as the Draper kids.)

Okay, so we all sound like, "It was much better back then..." old folks, here! ;-) But, I agree. I was born in the early 60's, and I completely agree with how kids are so micromanaged today. Schedules? Play dates? Huh? We went to school (on the bus, thank you), came home, had a snack (for me, a big glass of milk and two Ring Dings!) then went outside and played (or played board games or watched TV if the weather was bad). We spent a lot of time on our bikes, riding up the street to friends' and cousins' homes. Oh, and homework--I don't know about you all, but I never got any help with that; I was on my own. No parents hanging over my shoulders, pushing me to do better, no tutors and never even heard of a place like Sylvan Learning Center! I guess that's one of the things that made me so independent and hardworking. I got A's on my own, and was (and still am!) proud of it. I wonder how some of these kids who are coddled and pressured and pushed to succeed will end up. I think they have a rude awakening for them; their boss is not going to want to review their work for them!

I am assuming that many of the posters here extolling the good-old-days of childhood must have kids now. What is preventing you from simply allowing your kids to be kids as you were? Surely you are the ones "overscheduling" your children with playdates and extracirrucular activities. And what is so different now, when crime is at it's lowest point since the mid-60s, of simply letting your kids go out and play? Parents were definitely concerned about the effects of too much TV on kids in 1962 as well as now, so that's not new. Even video games have been around since the mid-70s. I am NOT trolling or being sarcastic! I am genuinely interested why parents now wouldn't want to pass on the joys of their own childhoods in the 60s and 70s. What's stopping you?

One thing that hasn't seemed right about the kids. Back then, with no a/c, they would have been outside the house most of the summer daytime. They're living in a suburb with 2.5 kids per household so they'd be all over the neighborhood. My mom used to have to call our neighbors to find out where my sister and I were playing. No fear, just the ability to find us.

Both my wife and I had bicycles that we rode everywhere. (I realize Bobby's a bit young but Sally's about the right age.)

The late 50's and early 60's were a culinary wasteland in most parts of this country. There were just enough canned goods available to keep the family from starving while "Mama" avoided cooking. In my house, we always had a freshly prepared dinner (we called it supper) of meat and at least two side dishes, bread and sometimes salad or dessert. It's the way I was raised to prepare a meal and, even though I worked full time, I still cooked a meal every night. I thought everyone lived that way. Then one evening I had to drop by a friend's house (she didn't work) around supper time and there they were - husband, wife, three young children, sitting at the kitchen bar, eating canned beans and wieners - no buns, no slaw, no potato salad, just plain old beans and dogs. I was astonished and found out later that they ate that way all the time - frozen fish sticks, canned spaghetti, Beanee-Weanees, even fried Spam or baloney and canned vegetables. These were not poor people - they made about middle-class income and lived rather well, but ate like paupers. I didn't understand that then, nor do I now, but I am being reminded of it when I see the dinner table on Mad Men - not that wine was ever served except on a special occasion. I was surprised by the meatloaf which actually requires preparation.

i am completely amazed at how differently we all were raised. to answer greytone, yes, i know what you are getting at, and i totally agree those elements are key.

my husband is from mississippi, and he talks just like you. it's all black-eyed peas, cornbread, collard greens and a bunch of other nutty stuff i had never heard of before i met him.

i grew up in california thinking that corn ears grew straight up out of the ground, and breast of chicken was made in a factory. i had never SEEN a whole chicken until i met my husband! i had never bought or cooked ANY of the things his family loves.

apparently, i'm STILL a picky eater, because when he puts those fried pork chops in front of me, i secretly long for my Beanie Weenie and grape Kool-Aid.

now my husband loves to terrorize me by bringing home various animal parts (from the grocery) and chasing me around the house with them.

his other trick is to take a whole chicken, and sit it upright in the fridge at eye level so when i go for my 4 am glass of milk, it scares the crap out of me.

it sounds like some of you had some lovely, idyllic childhoods, and it's wonderful to hear the stories.

*sigh.* so, greytone, how we are raised is everything i guess.

i hope at least someone got a little laugh or two from the piece.

sanford212, I agree with you. My husband and I are in our mid (getting to late) 40's and have no children. I'd like to think that we would have done just what you suggested if we had met earlier and had a family (we married in our early 40's). But, like any other time, there is the peer pressure and the keeping up with the Joneses. Kids don't want to be different; they want to be like all the other kids. So, unless the whole neighborhood (or school system) started rethinking their childrens' lives and simplifying them, I don't know how it would work, as much as we'd like it to.

THET HAD MEAT LOAF DURING THAT SALT SCENE AND PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE STOP SAYING BOBBY HAS ADD. IT PISSES ME OFF WHEN A PERFECTLY NORMAL GROWING BOY ACTS UP AND IS AUTOMATICALLY LABELLED ADD. WE ARE NOT A NATION OF PERFECT LITTLE ROBOTS. HE DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM. HIS MOTHER HAS A PROBLEM DEALING WITH HIM.