O.K. so I posted an open thread also and now can't find it, so if you all find it and I'm repeating myself , Im sorry. Random comments, Joan's engaged. Rachel Katz! Loved her comments about "working with Don". Surprising Peggy comes to the rescue.Loved that Don ordered steak tar tar for Bobbie the lioness. Peggy's flash back in the hospital. Like I said random thoughts no insight at this point, will come later. They did mention Monroe. Some one predicted this a few weeks ago. For all you doubters about Laying the ground work , it's paying off! This is as far as I am in the show .
1) rachel is back and with a new man! I am so happy that I was right about her return (visan and I are all smiles)
2) what about Pegs coming to the rescue for don
3) anita was pregnant that year- where is that child?
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
5) how about trudy and pete (poor trudy)
6) don knows peggy's secret- no wonder he called her
1) rachel is back and with a new man! I am so happy that I was right about her return (visan and I are all smiles)
2) what about Pegs coming to the rescue for don
3) anita was pregnant that year- where is that child?
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
5) how about trudy and pete (poor trudy)
6) don knows peggy's secret- no wonder he called her
Very implausable that Don would call Peggy to bail him out. Why not call Roger? There's been nothing established so far to make us think that Peggy is in anyway his confidant.
Frighgigh-Did you see the flashback of Don at Peggy's bedside? I believe that was to show that their relationship became more than just boss and underling. Sure more will unfold.
Maybe Don called Peggy because he knew Peggy could forget all about it after it was over. And completely forget it. Roger probably would bring it again. After Don visited Peggy in the hospital I think that made them confidences, in some way. So the big question is, is the little boy we saw earlier in the season Peggy's, or her sisters? If it was in fact Peggy's were is Anita's child?
The little blond boy is obviously Peggy's sister's baby since she was pregnant in the flashback scene. Where is Peggy's baby? Given up for adoption? We've been duped!
I like the introduction of health problems, especially high blood pressure since this is more realistic. Additionally, I really like the ending to this episode. Don's life is slowly deconstructing. The episodes show a cascade of a dissolution of the 1950s mentality and an emergence of the late 60s mentality (i.e., women's lib, hippie and anti-materialsim culture, etc). I am hoping that this film mentions some of the key turning points when this happens, such as the kennedy assisination, mario savio's speech at berkely, and the formation of SDS. I am expecting that Roger Sterling's daughter will touch upon some of these themes since in the last episode she expressed wanting to reject mainstream values (a traditional wedding) and wanting to adopt a more liberal lifestyle. Also, I hope they show Bob Dylan singing folk in the coffee shops in the village. Wow, I really love the work that the people do on this show. It is truly great to see a depiction of the good, the bad, and the ugly side of this era.
Now get the new girl comment. Joan's comment, There's still plenty to see" Love the zipper playing Mozart, even though I couldn't hear it.This one is the best yet. Bobbies comment to Peggy ,"You're never going to get that corner office untill you start treating Don as your equal. And no one will tell you this but can't be a man ,don't even try , Powerful bussinss when done correctly.
In Three Sundays, Anita told Peggy that "The State of New York didn't think so." Perhaps Peggy's child was given up for adoption because she had had a mental breakdown. And here we thought Anita was a saint for looking after her sister's child!
The boy is likely her sister's and Peggy's child is likely a ward of the state as in Episode 2 the State of New York determined Peggy wasn't mentally fit to keep the child.
Anita was pregnant in the flashback?!
So the baby isn't Peggy's?
This is going to be the unravelling of Dick/Don all over again ( in that it's going to be SLOW)
I knew it was going to be Peggy he called, but I never imagined Don knew about her.
The Bobbie/Peggy conversations were very interesting. I wonder how this will affect Peggy's relationship with Don.
Judging from the flashback, Don knows at least part of Peggy's secret and he promoted her. She's in his debt.
While Roger would understand, he is Don's boss and it would give him power over Don. Also, I wouldn't quite trust Roger to keep a secret, if only because of his drinking.
Judging from the flashback, Don knows at least part of Peggy's secret and he promoted her. She's in his debt.
While Roger would understand, he is Don's boss and it would give him power over Don. Also, I wouldn't quite trust Roger to keep a secret, if only because of his drinking.
I also just saw in Peggy's flashback that Anita was pregnant. So I'll chim in with everyone else: where is her baby? I thought she was raising Peggy's as her own?
How awesome was it when Peggy called Don by his first name? Good for her! Now if she could just get a new hairstyle. ;)
I love Don...but he disappoints me in every episode with his complete inability to NOT have sex with nearly every woman. And cut back on that smoking! Man! Do/did people reallllllllllly smoke that much?
Question: either on the recap of what has already happened in Season 2, or maybe it was in the clips of what is to come, but somewhere I saw Pete telling Cooper that Don is really Dick. Did this happen already, and when? I've seen every episode in Season 2 and have not seen that.
This is currently my favorite show and I cannot understand why some of my friends and family are not crazy about it!
Also, i think the advertising for this show is very clever...obviously it must be older men who must be watching based on the commercials...BMW, Viagra, Jack Daniels, etc. IT's kind of funny since i'm an early 20s chick.
I got it, Anita had a pillow in her stomach, so she could pull off it was her baby? Hmm, what an interesting episode, saw that accident coming, and Peggy and Don with the secrets...intriguing. Thought maybe Bobbie would send Peggy something for her hospitality. Hate that Joan is engaged, she still is HOT for Roger, its all a cover up. The new girl will bring some heavy competition for Joan. Once again, love, love, love this show!
This episode more than made up for last weeks! AMC announced at the break that next week they will be having the five episodes from season 2 in a marathon format. Is there a break in the filming again?
How could Anita know to hide a pillow in her stomach to pull off the baby, if Peggy didn't even know she was pregnant? Peggy wasn't in the hospital for that long. I don't think Anita could pull off a super fast pregnancy.
Vgrace,
Yes Pete opened a personal package of Don's from his late brother and found out he was someone else. He threatened to go to boss with info so he could get a promotion (Duck's job). But, it backfired in the end.
Vgrace, yes I loved it when Peggy called Don by his first name, she is starting already to take Bobbies advice. ALso, I think with Pete telling Cooper was a flashback to season 1, that defiantely didn't happen this year.
I am with you on the friends and family not tuning in? I am saying fine then, don't watch my show.HA!
Yeah...I'm more than done with Bobbie. She is overused....in many ways.
Ahhhh....good thinking gage....maybe Anita did stuff her stomach so it would seem that the baby was hers.....
Guess I'll be watching the Marathon next week for all the parts and nuances I seem to have missed! I've also been renting the First Season to recap and catch any episodes or pieces I missed! (And to drool over the clothing and accessories!)
the scene you are wondering about was from the last episode of season one. one of the many climactic moments of the first season. pete tried to frame don by revealing to cooper that don wasn't who he claimed to be. cooper's response was "who cares?"
I'm thinking that Anita and Peggys mom knew she had the kid, and quick play off Anita is pg and then take the baby home. Silly, but its kinda a thought?!
For the poster who stated the liked the fly zipper rendition of Mozart, I did not. It seems a very sophmoric thing to do - VERY sophmoric, and frankly, what was the point? That's a rhetorical question. I mean, we've all seen these types of antics but come on, that was inane and thrown in for some sort of gratuitous shock value, at least in my opinion. Also, I don't think Don would EVER want Peggy to have on him what she now does, regardless of the fact he may know about her baby. No man in his right mind (one in Don's position anyway) would want a woman employee with THAT kind of power! Don has WAY more to lose than Peggy should Peggy ever spill the beans. They are not equals in business or in life, and Don is not THAT stupid! I think it would have been more logical that he would have called Roger Sterling. However, this episode is the best so far. However, strange AMC is ALREADY running a MM Marathon with only five episodes shown; I wonder if the ratings might be down a little and they are trying to bring those who tuned into the Olympics up to snuff? Or again, perhaps ratings are not where they need to be.
Okay, I didn't see all of Season 1 but Peggy didn't even know that she was pregnant????? I know that happens....but come on....she is no dummy. And I guess if her family also didn't know then how could Anita stuff her shirt....hmmmm
Oh and how about the new secretary for Don? Looks like she is Joan's competition for male attention! And just after Joan says that a professional atmosphere needs to be maintained that weird man comes out and plays Mozart on his pant zipper. haha!
What's so incredible about this time era is how dramatic the changes truly are, in such a short time frame. So I think and rea01 has hit the nail on the head. Think about what happens from the early 60's to the late 60's. So much of it has informed the world in which we currently live. And it's entirely possible we're going through a similar wave right now. I think the characters to watch are Peggy and Pete. They'll be dealing with issues of single parenthood, equality in the workplace, and of understanding popular values. For a man to say "Look at all the things having a baby means?" foreshadows the whole "me" obsession of the 60's. For a woman to say "I wasn't invited to that meeting" talks to the issues of women being taken seriously in the work force. Don is the old guard, trying to figure out what is wrong with his system of doing things...it'll be interesting to see how his story plays out. When he initially made the call to Peggy to bail him out, I knew he was aware of her baby.
The marathon starts at 5 so there could still be a new episode at 10. It is a holiday weekend, though, so maybe not. They did show previews-did they say next week or not?
Thought it was funny how Don didn't even think of the $ he put Peggy out for. Geez, how bout Rachael?! Would have never guessed she was married. Who the heck did Don send that poem off too....hmmm Midge? Don't think that Pete and Trudy will last. I am also sick of that Bobby already!
In the confession, Anita said she had to take care of the baby!? What is all this talk about the whereabouts of Peggy's baby?? I haven't seen the episode so excuse me if I don't quite understand what's being said.
I don't understand the pillow theory. in that flashback scene the baby was already born and something was already done with it. probably given up for adoption. what would stuffing a pillow in Anitas dress accomplish?
Don called on Peggy because he "has something" on her and he already knows she's devoted to him. Now she has something on him. She also knows he will tend to punish her for this secret knowledge - keep her in her place, start treating her like a secretary rather than a writer - let's see what happens - will she seek out Bobbi for advice?
ldraper-I don't drink them either but there's so many cocktails on this show, it's getting harder to resist! You did say you were tired-just joshin' with ya.
When they flashbacked to Peggy in the hospital Anita and her mother were standing there and Anita was obviously pregnant.
So, I guess we have to hope for another flashback to figure out exactly where is Peggy's baby and Anita's baby.
I assumed the baby (boy?) at Peggy's mother's house was Peggy's by the way Peggy kind of was awkward with it and ignored it (him?), and Anita (or her mom) asked her if she was going to see the baby or say good bye to the baby. But, then again, it could have been Anita's and Peggy was just awkward because she had a baby, and here is a baby....
I'm a newby to the series and I love it!!! I am having so much fun watching it with my husband, it really gives me something to look forward to, and love getting to spend some time with my husband!!!
Hide a pillow in her stomach? Oh, for heaven's sake, people, watch the show! Don't leave the room. You're missing important parts! Anita has other children, and I think the writers have led us to believe the little blond boy is Peggy's. (the first time we saw him, she was reluctantly saying goodnight at Anita's house) This show continues to surprise us all, and this episode is very revealing.
And if your friends and family don't get it just remember this. The people I know who are Mad Men fans are also incredibly intelligent and insightful. Enjoy!
gage-Rachael turning up married was a surprise, indeed. I don't think Don knew she was married so he may have sent that book to her. Think she had to get married? Remember how she suddenly took off on a cruise last season? Her husband doesn't seem like her type(if Don is her type).
Okay, it was dumb of me to say about the pillow, but I have never seen TWO babies in the new season, so thats what I came up with, a fokin' pillow in Anitas stomach!
I believe that Peggys baby is a boy with that blond hair!
The Peggy storyline is going to be interesting. I wonder if Trudy will ever find out that her husband did father a child, and I wonder if he'll ever know too.
Loved the period details, the Alka Seltzer, the song A Summer Place on the car radio and the ketchup covered meatloaf.
Who does the set decorations? Pete and Trudy's apartment is really cool.
Gage: What happens, I think, is everyone is so intent on getting in their two cents, the same things are repeated over and over and debated to the nth degree! That gets boring. I think some folks overanalyze every nuance and that becomes tedious. It's just a show. Most don't read other's postings, they just post their thoughts, which is fine, but after a while it becomes monotonous. The series was bright tonight, I must admit. I wonder about the ratings, though. Someplace I read they were losing viewers. Now watch someone state we are early in the season, which is really not true as there are only 7 or 8 episodes left of Season Two, not many really. Again, the show is good (to a point) but it it went off the air I will not be surprised.
First time poster so apologies in advance if I ask a repeat question. I did search the past topics but found no answer.
I love the opening for this show but I keep hearing about it being symbolic of Don (corner office, falling, can't really see him - mystery man) but it was my impression that the beginning is actually Pete. I thought it came from the episode when Pete is gunning for Don's job and the corner office. The falling man looks like Roger to me and only the last silhouette of the seated man with the cigarette appears to be Don. Has this been answered? Is it all Don or three men?
Tonight's impressions: FINALLY a justification for Bobbie being there - I saw it as a way to open the door into what happened between seasons with Peggy. Also lets us see a little more of what makes Don tick. Not sure about Anita's belly - either we have lost a baby somewhere (either hers or Peggy's) or she was stuffing for the cover story. They mention Peggy being gone for 3 months so that would be ample time for Anita to pretend.
I still thing Peggy is sweet, yet somewhat naive. I mean she did get down & dirty with Pete in his office, but she seemed so vunerable when she "twisted up" to him at the party and he shooed her away.
She's still dependable Peggy according to Mr. Draper. I don 't think he knows anything about the baby. In the flashback at the hospital, he tells her to forget about whatever happended and get on with her life. The fact that he called her after the car accident says that he trusts her. He's definetly not attracted to her. He see's her as one of the boys. Except she's more mature and dependable.
"Don has WAY more to lose than Peggy should Peggy ever spill the beans. "
I beg to differ Figaro, peggy would have more to lose. We have to remember that this is the 60's and the double standards that to some extent still exist today. As a male, it would be expected for Don to have extramarital affairs, and knowing what we know about Betty, what are the chances she would divorce him and take the kids away? Now Peggy have a baby out of wedlock, and with a married man at that. She would be at more risk of losing her reputation and job rather than Don who is very high up in the company. In addition Pete already went took the blackmail route and Cooper didnt seem to care. We have seen how Don reacts when people try to manipulate/blackmail him so either way you look at it , Don is a pretty difficult man to screw over.
This episode was very insightful. I think that it is quite interesting and surprising that Don know about Peggys pregnancy. I was under the impression that it was Joan who knew everything about everyone, but it turns out Don sees more than we are lead to believe. If he was able to find out that Peggy is pregnant, then there is a good that he was able to know who the father is. If that is the case, that is ammunition he would be able to use against Peter, in case he tries to blackmail him again.
It is also interesting to get a closer look at Bobbie. Did anyone catch the comment in reference to her bruise where she says she was a dancer and met alot 'interesting' people? Was Bobbie a former prostitute? The fact that she is from the bottom would explain why she is a bit rough around the edges and is able to fight dirty. It would also explain her attitude towards Don.
Whatever the case is, she also seems to have feelings for Don, she couldn't stop talking about him or questioning Peggy about their relationship. I have a feeling this could mean bad news for Don in the future. Bobbie is certainly not as modest a Rachael, and doesn't seem to take rejection well.
I think Don would do anything to keep his flings a secret. Betty doesn't play when it comes to cheating. I don't know it she would leave Don, but she would never let him forget it.
Miala: Thanks, but I am sticking by my original opinion. When someone is married with children they ALWAYS have more to lose than some little office worker (ala Peggy). Always. Don makes more, has more, and as a man, will get further. And you know, at this point I will repeat something I stated earlier: It's just a show. We don't really HAVE to "remember" anything, i.e., that it's the sixties or whatever. It's entertainment and as such, we all take away something different, I suppose. I know it's the sixties, I was there too.
So were millions of other Boomers (and those who are NOT Boomers). Again, art is subjective. This is art. We could debate it forever, but then we wouldn't be tending to what we need to in REAL life if we did that! Thanks for your feedback. Time for me to get to bed.
I was shocked when Peggy came to rescue Don, then shocked again when Don came to visit her in the hospital. That makes sense - I wondered how her family explained her absence for that length of time. TB was not common in the early 60s, but it was still around.
I think seeing Peggy's sister pregnant when she and the mother visited Peggy in the hospital supports my idea that the little blonde boy is not Peggy's baby - it's the sister's. We still don't know what happened to Peggy's boy, but he probably was adopted out. I think at the end of this season 2, Pete will know he fathered a child and the hunt will be on to find the little boy so Pete and Trudy can have him.
Don's face when Peggy called him Don was absolutely priceless.
OMG, this show just gets more and more intriguing.
I certainly want Rachel to be back and often.
TO WHOMEVER TAKES CARE OF THIS SITE: The way the threads are set up is confusing - it needs to be done like Law & Order's.
Figaro, I agree , we dissect this show too much. That's why I just throw out thoughts and hope they land somewhere. I get really tired of people taking the most minute facts and expounding at length. But that is what this forum is for. I get insights I wouldn't otherwise have. That's kind of the fun. No?
MMforever on August 24, 2008 11:01 PM
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
I think Bobbi doesn't understand a nonsexual relationship with a man. She's used sex to get power and influence and doesn't understand someone like Peggy who is actually interested in working her way up. Yes, Peggy make mistakes her first year at SC, i.e, the Pete thing, but she learned from that and she is intent on building a life. She is also intent on getting respect from her colleagues - which I think she has.
She may also have been asking about Peggy and Don in order to see if Don was the kind of man would use young girls in the office for his pleasure. She did make a comment about him being a decent man, something not expected. I guess she's trying to figure out why Don would call a young woman at the office instead of one of the guys to help him out of a tight spot.
idraper: Have to get to bed. Really do. OK, one more remark from me. Yes, it's fun to a point but it does get boring (as you stated) when people just argue for the sake of argument. Did you see those postings last week about the blue Easter egg?
There were tons of them and they debated the concept of this blue egg for days and days. Also, I get weary of the threads that are nothing more than people's personal recollections of the sixties, the sayings (adages), the moors, what their mothers and fathers drank and how they were punished, whether or not they had an Easter Egg roll at their church, etc., etc.,etc. It seems everyone assumes that if THEY did things a certain way in the sixties, EVERYONE did them that way. Not so, as I am sure you will agree. Anyway, what is the old sage abut "If you remember the sixties (or any decade) you really weren't there!" Night all!
Ok So I love this show and the only other person I know that watches it is my mother. I am so glad I found this blog. I am curious I am 27 and I did not live in that time. Are there any fans my age? Anyway, In regards to Peggy's baby, I think it was in the first or second episode when she went to her sisters and before she left her sis ter said " are you going to say goodnight ( something like that) She walked to the doorrway where the baby was sleeping and she just looked. SO I think the baby is peggy's and I think her sisters baby died and she resents Peggy beasue she haas the job, the baby and her mothers attention. What do you guys think?
Natasha: I keep promising to get to bed and I am doing so after answering your question. Before I do here's something for LoveMM. You don't believe unbuttoning one's blouse was accurate for the sixties?! Come on, where have YOU been? People flirted in the sixties, believe me. They were obvious just as they are today. This is an AD AGENCY NOT a nunnery! The new girl wants attention. Some women DID enjoy it, and believe me, more than you may think! Just because women were downtrodden in the sixties didn't mean they didn't enjoy flirting. So now, Natasha: Peggy had her baby. Peggy's sister adopted it or it was given to her. The sister has two children of her own. She resents Peggy because she is stuck at home with THREE kids, and her mother seems to favor Peggy no matter what she does. I would be somewhat resentful too! Peggy's sister is the typical housewife of that era, unfulfilled and yearning for more. OK, that's it. TO bed! No more idle threats.
Please tell us who the actor is who is playing Dr.Stone in Episode 5.....I recognize him from another series but he looks much older now.
We like this show...It is very different and inventive. Odd characters to say the least.
A strange thought went through my mind about Peggy. We all just assume that Pete is the father of her child but maybe Don is. After all he did give her a raise and new office before the child was born. I am not sure why everyone thinks that Anita is not caring for Peggy's baby. I thought it was pretty transparent in one of the earlier episodes that the baby belonged to Peggy and Anita was upset that she did not acknowledge him at all. There were many children asleep in that room. It is possible that Anita had her own baby at about the same time Peggy had hers and she is caring for both. I think Betty and Don are lousy parents. Betty wants Don to beat up on the little boy for getting into perfectly normal scrapes that all children get into and are no big deal. Don takes his little girl to the office and totally ignores her to the point that she gets intoxicated without him noticing. Swell parents!
Just a hint of a time line here
peggy's baby born after nixon lost election to jfk nov. 1960
this 5th epeisode takes place around may19 1962
mm sings hbday to jfk
I love don's creativity I love his charachter. He is a good person. betty is shallow and does not love her son. why? perhaps he is not don's?
this show has mystery after mystery
This show is many things.
Not just a clue to the clueless young women of today that have no idea that the feminist movement
did do some good for us. they changed us, and how we brought up our sons and daughters.
its an insight to marriage, family,
stress, lies, manipulation, health and pure
art television at its best.
I find it hard to believe that Peggy's baby is out there with some other family. It doesn't leave the door open for future tension about its existence and Pete being the father if the child is totally out of the picture.
I'm hoping this is a start to a new Peggy who becomes a little more "womanly" and less dowdy and about how she navigates the workplace. Ugh, it must have been so frustrating at that time. My old boss started working in advertising in the 70's and even then men and women started in different positions (women in a more clerical-type role.) She fought it and was the first woman to start in the "man's" position. Yeah!
Mimi, I just want you to know that this young woman has never forgotten what people who fought in the Women's Movement and CIvil Rights Movement did for her! As much as I like Mad Men, I didn't need the show as some "reminder" of that!
There are a lot of young women creating blogs and such who are quite aware of the struggles of back in the day! Please don't generalize!
Figaro, thank you for the reply, even though I am fully aware of that this is a tv show, and that art is subjective. My post was not meant to inform or even persuade you, only to express my difference in opinion. Take it or leave it, goodnight.
Don's comment to Bobbi about not feeling anything, reinforces why he's able to betray his wife and family without any remorse. We see this again and again, he has little guilt or remorse-and it's another reason he can push his wife around, because he doesn't see her as his victim anymore.
I enjoyed Joans comments to her former lover, Sterling, about his unhappy marriage. I think she hit a nerve.
Don and Bobbi are both self-created personas. Very interesting to see this shared similarity in both characters.
Peggy's mental health was obviously an issue, but how could it be so traumatic when she didn't even know she was pregnant? Her mother seemed to know of the baby.
visan
a lot of young women in power do not have a clue. t
They are even resentful to the womans movement ,they see it as a failure . after all we still do not have equal pay, oprah did a fabulous show on it years ago.i am glad you are knowledgeable and your right, generalizations are never accurate.but why is not your generation carrying the ball . get us equal pay
I like Don's new Secretary!...she's a hottie!!!! Joan is somehow 'lacking' next to her charms in my opinion.
Racheal's back (for a second) YAAAAAA!
Bobbie still diddling Don (almost) BOOOOOO!
Pete's 'swimmers' are powerful - YAAAAAAA!
Peggy was born a women - Boooooo! (LOL).
Sterling and Joan are talking- Yaaaaaa!
Joan got engaged - Booooo!
Pete stood up to his wife! - Yaaaaaaa!
Don's wife toke away Don's salt at dinner- Boooo!
Kosgrove chatted up the 'New Girl'- Yaaaaaaa!
Someone played Mozart on their Zipper- Booooo!
So yeah....it was an "OK" episode....more chicks!...Less Bobbie! I soo wanted to see Paul ask the new girl about "liking Ukrainian Food"- it's a gag on the DVD commentaries.
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
Im glad that others caught Peggy's intentional point of calling Don by his first name after she made him pay back the bail money she had given him. I think that she realized that although she had done him a big favor, and he had done the same for her in the past, that in a way they were now even and that he wasn't going to let her slack. She had to stand her ground.
As for the baby, I think the jury is still out. Peggy's sister, Anita, was definately pregnant, but there is also a possibility that something happened to her own child during birth. If that were the case it would make sense that she would raise Peggy's child as her own without question in the parish. Everyone would just think it was her baby, not Peggy's. I haven't seen another baby, but am I missing something?
I think the revelation of Don's deeper connection to Peggy made a lot of sense. He basically held her job for her while she was getting it together. His comment about,"this never happening" and "moving forward" was so in tune with his own mantra that he was able to give Peggy the confidence that she really could go forward without looking back. I have a feeling that we will see more flashbacks of their conversations.
As for Don and Bobbie....well that's going to be explosive. She's the perfect nauty temptress that has the balls to make Don burst into flames. This is going to get HOT! You think she has forgotten his little crotch grab? Look out Donny!
Tonight's episode, "The New Girl"--and the episodes leading to it--has me convinced that season 2 is the equal of, if not superior to, Season 1. Congratulations to all involved in this series. You have destroyed the "sophomore slump" so common of TV series. Eat your hearts out, HBO!
Great Episode!
I loved all the biplay between Bobbi and Peggy--what a surprising twist in the story line--seeing bobbi with her hair down so to speak--no make up and being sincere with peggy made her more likeable.
I also liked the way she confided to Don about the way she had invented and reinvented herself--realizing that what men called "negotiation" was something she had been doing all her life. Once she had that aha moment, she made her opportunity and seized her opportunity just as Don had done - maybe that is why she realizes they have something in common.
As for the Rachel and new husband thing--did anyone else notice that the new husband called Don Draper "Mr. Curtain!" I think he may have done it on purpose to say that Don is so out of the picture, his wife has never mentioned him as the great love of her life etc etc
It was a clever and comic put down--to take Don down a peg or two --a kind of gallant favour so she wouldn't be too shaken by the chance encounter.
One more thing--julia a new poster brought up the subjecty of the opening credits---
I think they are superb in the way they evoke the art of the sixties but in a far slicker fashion. The credit of the falling man--and the shadow silhouette was usd in the opening credits of Hitcock's vertigo and in countless other
films and TV shows of the sixties. I think the outline of the body in Anatomy of a Murder.
Hitcock also comes to mind because Cary Grant in North by Northwest plays an advertising executive who remains immaculate in his "gray flannel suit" another famous novel and film of the period--no matter how many adventures and misadventures he has- in the course of the film!
Great opening theme music--absolutely picture perfect!
I am so satisfied! You know these episodes could stand alone. Like a short movie! It's so good. I can go to sleep now thinking about Don's philosophy, "It's shocking at how 'it didn't happen' it can be"...."you go forward"...
OK, let's get real. Does anybody really think that Rachel prefers banging that dog looking husband of her's to THE DON? This is an absolute no brainer folks that dude was BORING TO THE MAX. Time to set an over under line for when Don and Rachel hook up again. I'M SETTING IT AT 3 EPISODES. Get your picks in.
chopin47- thanks for your response! I would love to see how the relationship between those two.
Montana- rachel's hubby didn't say "Mr. Curtain" he said to rachel that we're going to miss the curtain- indicating that they're seeing a show.
I'm loving all of the responses to this thread- its been very helpful. I was very shocked to see anita pregnant becuase I feel way more confused. Hopefully we'll see that twist develop this season. I really found pete's talk with the dr stone similar to a confessinal. How he thinks the world at that time and his attitude about his job (being replaceable and all) was quite astounding to me.
I noticed Rachel came looked like she wet herself when she saw Don and Rachel still had the Hots for each other. And Rachel is trouble because she is a Hypocrite and only a fair weather women. She'd turn on Don in a heartbeat. Bobbi, is turning out to be a good ally for Don, in spite of the fact that they are only lovers. Wow! how heavy is it that Don visited Peggy in the hospital? Does he feel like she had helped him when Pete had him under the Gun? (When peggy was crying to him about bad people getting away with stuff). I think Peggy might eventually become powerful in the office and somehow save Don's ass again down the line. I don't know if personally or professionally but the plot does thicken doesn't it?
Peggy's baby was given up for adoption. Peggy's behavior (her unwillingness to believe she had a baby) led the state of NY to make that decision for her and order her temporary commitment. Her sister Anita was simply pregnant at about the same time.
We were tricked cleverly by the writers at first to think that Anita was raising Peggy's baby--how awful. But in fact that baby in the bedroom is Anita's.
Anita would sure have complained in confession that she was raising Peggy's baby to the young priest (who one day will strum his mandolin out of the priesthood, say, about 1973) because Anita is angry that her mother forgives her sister and that the young priest is impressed with Peggy while she gets stuck with the fruits of her "goodness"-- a crap outer boro life.
It was just not sensible to think her own family was going to make Peggy hold her own "secret" baby in church. Catholic guilt was a force in those days, but it wasn't the inquisition! The unpleasantness of holding her own sister's similarly aged child was what that scene a few eps ago was about. The writers just loved making us freak out by giving us some pieces. That's why they're great. They make us take a while to figure it out.
In conversation with Bobbi, Peggy hints at her underlying anxiety about that baby now out in the world somewhere when she mentions to Bobbi that "a child in our neighborhood hit his head and died." She's living with that phamtom pain and this comment is clearly meant to show us the dual track she is on. Every bad story about some kid that age will haunt her a bit. She's taken Draper's advice, but there's a cost, unlike the Whitmans, Peggy's "moving forward" from an innocent who never called her whoreson etc. So she has her own even more painful version of this road to follow, in some ways far worse than Don.
Don's knowing about Peggy's secret is actually more important to another relationship. The Don/Pete one. C'mon people, after how the show finally explains why the relatives of the real Don Draper have never come looking for him, the next biggest question sitting out there is how the hell Pete doesn't destroy Don with his knowledge about his true identity.
(I loved Harry's season 1 comment about how no one knows Don: "I've tried lifting that rock, He's like Batman.")
To re-balance the relationship between Don and Pete, the writers had to give Don something HUGE on Pete. And in proper 1962 with a respected family name, but one with no family money any more it turns out, Pete cannot have it come out that he fathered a child out of wedlock with a co-worker, the very co-worker now writing the copy for the account his father in law handed him. And after ep 5 tonight, Trudy knows Pete's no George Washington. Daddy loves his little girl and Pete would take a serious beat down on multiple levels (financial, social, maybe even professional) if Trudy learned Pete had already "given" someone a baby.
Don, as a man who is always on guard over his identity, and a brilliant salesman, is very good a piecing together the secrets of others, and their weaknesses. By knowing about Peggy, he is on co
Clayton, people on the East Coast are going to post spoilers!!
O.K. so I posted an open thread also and now can't find it, so if you all find it and I'm repeating myself , Im sorry. Random comments, Joan's engaged. Rachel Katz! Loved her comments about "working with Don". Surprising Peggy comes to the rescue.Loved that Don ordered steak tar tar for Bobbie the lioness. Peggy's flash back in the hospital. Like I said random thoughts no insight at this point, will come later. They did mention Monroe. Some one predicted this a few weeks ago. For all you doubters about Laying the ground work , it's paying off! This is as far as I am in the show .
1) rachel is back and with a new man! I am so happy that I was right about her return (visan and I are all smiles)
2) what about Pegs coming to the rescue for don
3) anita was pregnant that year- where is that child?
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
5) how about trudy and pete (poor trudy)
6) don knows peggy's secret- no wonder he called her
1) rachel is back and with a new man! I am so happy that I was right about her return (visan and I are all smiles)
2) what about Pegs coming to the rescue for don
3) anita was pregnant that year- where is that child?
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
5) how about trudy and pete (poor trudy)
6) don knows peggy's secret- no wonder he called her
Very implausable that Don would call Peggy to bail him out. Why not call Roger? There's been nothing established so far to make us think that Peggy is in anyway his confidant.
ldraper-That thread is the next after this one. Too many martinis? : )
Frighgigh-Did you see the flashback of Don at Peggy's bedside? I believe that was to show that their relationship became more than just boss and underling. Sure more will unfold.
Maybe Don called Peggy because he knew Peggy could forget all about it after it was over. And completely forget it. Roger probably would bring it again. After Don visited Peggy in the hospital I think that made them confidences, in some way. So the big question is, is the little boy we saw earlier in the season Peggy's, or her sisters? If it was in fact Peggy's were is Anita's child?
The little blond boy is obviously Peggy's sister's baby since she was pregnant in the flashback scene. Where is Peggy's baby? Given up for adoption? We've been duped!
I like the introduction of health problems, especially high blood pressure since this is more realistic. Additionally, I really like the ending to this episode. Don's life is slowly deconstructing. The episodes show a cascade of a dissolution of the 1950s mentality and an emergence of the late 60s mentality (i.e., women's lib, hippie and anti-materialsim culture, etc). I am hoping that this film mentions some of the key turning points when this happens, such as the kennedy assisination, mario savio's speech at berkely, and the formation of SDS. I am expecting that Roger Sterling's daughter will touch upon some of these themes since in the last episode she expressed wanting to reject mainstream values (a traditional wedding) and wanting to adopt a more liberal lifestyle. Also, I hope they show Bob Dylan singing folk in the coffee shops in the village. Wow, I really love the work that the people do on this show. It is truly great to see a depiction of the good, the bad, and the ugly side of this era.
Now get the new girl comment. Joan's comment, There's still plenty to see" Love the zipper playing Mozart, even though I couldn't hear it.This one is the best yet. Bobbies comment to Peggy ,"You're never going to get that corner office untill you start treating Don as your equal. And no one will tell you this but can't be a man ,don't even try , Powerful bussinss when done correctly.
In Three Sundays, Anita told Peggy that "The State of New York didn't think so." Perhaps Peggy's child was given up for adoption because she had had a mental breakdown. And here we thought Anita was a saint for looking after her sister's child!
How do we know Anita was pregnant? I don't remember that info.
The boy is likely her sister's and Peggy's child is likely a ward of the state as in Episode 2 the State of New York determined Peggy wasn't mentally fit to keep the child.
Anita was pregnant in the flashback?!
So the baby isn't Peggy's?
This is going to be the unravelling of Dick/Don all over again ( in that it's going to be SLOW)
I knew it was going to be Peggy he called, but I never imagined Don knew about her.
The Bobbie/Peggy conversations were very interesting. I wonder how this will affect Peggy's relationship with Don.
Judging from the flashback, Don knows at least part of Peggy's secret and he promoted her. She's in his debt.
While Roger would understand, he is Don's boss and it would give him power over Don. Also, I wouldn't quite trust Roger to keep a secret, if only because of his drinking.
Judging from the flashback, Don knows at least part of Peggy's secret and he promoted her. She's in his debt.
While Roger would understand, he is Don's boss and it would give him power over Don. Also, I wouldn't quite trust Roger to keep a secret, if only because of his drinking.
I also just saw in Peggy's flashback that Anita was pregnant. So I'll chim in with everyone else: where is her baby? I thought she was raising Peggy's as her own?
How awesome was it when Peggy called Don by his first name? Good for her! Now if she could just get a new hairstyle. ;)
I love Don...but he disappoints me in every episode with his complete inability to NOT have sex with nearly every woman. And cut back on that smoking! Man! Do/did people reallllllllllly smoke that much?
Question: either on the recap of what has already happened in Season 2, or maybe it was in the clips of what is to come, but somewhere I saw Pete telling Cooper that Don is really Dick. Did this happen already, and when? I've seen every episode in Season 2 and have not seen that.
This is currently my favorite show and I cannot understand why some of my friends and family are not crazy about it!
MMforever-You're right-Don called her because he had something on her so she couldn't use his situation against him. He's a sly one.
I didn't even see Anita-need to watch again!
I've had enough of Bobbie-anyone else?
Betty is so controlling now she won't even let him have salt. How long before he blows up?
Also, i think the advertising for this show is very clever...obviously it must be older men who must be watching based on the commercials...BMW, Viagra, Jack Daniels, etc. IT's kind of funny since i'm an early 20s chick.
Vgrace-it already happened. Cooper didn't care.
I got it, Anita had a pillow in her stomach, so she could pull off it was her baby? Hmm, what an interesting episode, saw that accident coming, and Peggy and Don with the secrets...intriguing. Thought maybe Bobbie would send Peggy something for her hospitality. Hate that Joan is engaged, she still is HOT for Roger, its all a cover up. The new girl will bring some heavy competition for Joan. Once again, love, love, love this show!
This episode more than made up for last weeks! AMC announced at the break that next week they will be having the five episodes from season 2 in a marathon format. Is there a break in the filming again?
How could Anita know to hide a pillow in her stomach to pull off the baby, if Peggy didn't even know she was pregnant? Peggy wasn't in the hospital for that long. I don't think Anita could pull off a super fast pregnancy.
Vgrace,
Yes Pete opened a personal package of Don's from his late brother and found out he was someone else. He threatened to go to boss with info so he could get a promotion (Duck's job). But, it backfired in the end.
Vgrace, yes I loved it when Peggy called Don by his first name, she is starting already to take Bobbies advice. ALso, I think with Pete telling Cooper was a flashback to season 1, that defiantely didn't happen this year.
I am with you on the friends and family not tuning in? I am saying fine then, don't watch my show.HA!
Yeah...I'm more than done with Bobbie. She is overused....in many ways.
Ahhhh....good thinking gage....maybe Anita did stuff her stomach so it would seem that the baby was hers.....
Guess I'll be watching the Marathon next week for all the parts and nuances I seem to have missed! I've also been renting the First Season to recap and catch any episodes or pieces I missed! (And to drool over the clothing and accessories!)
vgrace.
the scene you are wondering about was from the last episode of season one. one of the many climactic moments of the first season. pete tried to frame don by revealing to cooper that don wasn't who he claimed to be. cooper's response was "who cares?"
so what's with the ESP with the new Girl? Any ideas on what she will predict? and who says beemers are only for the boys,???? God I LOVE THIS SHOW.
That Don Draper is such a manly man. Steak tar tar.
I'm thinking that Anita and Peggys mom knew she had the kid, and quick play off Anita is pg and then take the baby home. Silly, but its kinda a thought?!
For the poster who stated the liked the fly zipper rendition of Mozart, I did not. It seems a very sophmoric thing to do - VERY sophmoric, and frankly, what was the point? That's a rhetorical question. I mean, we've all seen these types of antics but come on, that was inane and thrown in for some sort of gratuitous shock value, at least in my opinion. Also, I don't think Don would EVER want Peggy to have on him what she now does, regardless of the fact he may know about her baby. No man in his right mind (one in Don's position anyway) would want a woman employee with THAT kind of power! Don has WAY more to lose than Peggy should Peggy ever spill the beans. They are not equals in business or in life, and Don is not THAT stupid! I think it would have been more logical that he would have called Roger Sterling. However, this episode is the best so far. However, strange AMC is ALREADY running a MM Marathon with only five episodes shown; I wonder if the ratings might be down a little and they are trying to bring those who tuned into the Olympics up to snuff? Or again, perhaps ratings are not where they need to be.
60's child,
You mean there's not going to be episode 6 next week???
Okay, I didn't see all of Season 1 but Peggy didn't even know that she was pregnant????? I know that happens....but come on....she is no dummy. And I guess if her family also didn't know then how could Anita stuff her shirt....hmmmm
Oh and how about the new secretary for Don? Looks like she is Joan's competition for male attention! And just after Joan says that a professional atmosphere needs to be maintained that weird man comes out and plays Mozart on his pant zipper. haha!
What's so incredible about this time era is how dramatic the changes truly are, in such a short time frame. So I think and rea01 has hit the nail on the head. Think about what happens from the early 60's to the late 60's. So much of it has informed the world in which we currently live. And it's entirely possible we're going through a similar wave right now. I think the characters to watch are Peggy and Pete. They'll be dealing with issues of single parenthood, equality in the workplace, and of understanding popular values. For a man to say "Look at all the things having a baby means?" foreshadows the whole "me" obsession of the 60's. For a woman to say "I wasn't invited to that meeting" talks to the issues of women being taken seriously in the work force. Don is the old guard, trying to figure out what is wrong with his system of doing things...it'll be interesting to see how his story plays out. When he initially made the call to Peggy to bail him out, I knew he was aware of her baby.
Fantastic series! This was a great episode!
The marathon starts at 5 so there could still be a new episode at 10. It is a holiday weekend, though, so maybe not. They did show previews-did they say next week or not?
When does Betty get a turn to "play"??
Thought it was funny how Don didn't even think of the $ he put Peggy out for. Geez, how bout Rachael?! Would have never guessed she was married. Who the heck did Don send that poem off too....hmmm Midge? Don't think that Pete and Trudy will last. I am also sick of that Bobby already!
In the confession, Anita said she had to take care of the baby!? What is all this talk about the whereabouts of Peggy's baby?? I haven't seen the episode so excuse me if I don't quite understand what's being said.
Once again I plead ignorance, Midcenturymod, I can't find my original post onmy computer. And by the way I've never had a martini. Love ya , though.
I don't understand the pillow theory. in that flashback scene the baby was already born and something was already done with it. probably given up for adoption. what would stuffing a pillow in Anitas dress accomplish?
Don called on Peggy because he "has something" on her and he already knows she's devoted to him. Now she has something on him. She also knows he will tend to punish her for this secret knowledge - keep her in her place, start treating her like a secretary rather than a writer - let's see what happens - will she seek out Bobbi for advice?
Peggy was in total denial about being pregnant and she just looked fat so don't think Anita knew. Where in the show was Anita tonight?
Didn't they show Peggy's baby girl on the Three Sundays episode?
Vgrace,
Peggy was in denial and still is about the baby. Also, innocently, she took the pill and she probably thought she was ok right away.
ldraper-I don't drink them either but there's so many cocktails on this show, it's getting harder to resist! You did say you were tired-just joshin' with ya.
When they flashbacked to Peggy in the hospital Anita and her mother were standing there and Anita was obviously pregnant.
So, I guess we have to hope for another flashback to figure out exactly where is Peggy's baby and Anita's baby.
I assumed the baby (boy?) at Peggy's mother's house was Peggy's by the way Peggy kind of was awkward with it and ignored it (him?), and Anita (or her mom) asked her if she was going to see the baby or say good bye to the baby. But, then again, it could have been Anita's and Peggy was just awkward because she had a baby, and here is a baby....
Finally got my glimpse of Rachel! But it was too brief!
Damn! Don's still got the woman in his system! Good!
The less of Self-Absorbed Bitch per episode, the better! She needs to STFD!
I'm a newby to the series and I love it!!! I am having so much fun watching it with my husband, it really gives me something to look forward to, and love getting to spend some time with my husband!!!
Hide a pillow in her stomach? Oh, for heaven's sake, people, watch the show! Don't leave the room. You're missing important parts! Anita has other children, and I think the writers have led us to believe the little blond boy is Peggy's. (the first time we saw him, she was reluctantly saying goodnight at Anita's house) This show continues to surprise us all, and this episode is very revealing.
And if your friends and family don't get it just remember this. The people I know who are Mad Men fans are also incredibly intelligent and insightful. Enjoy!
gage-Rachael turning up married was a surprise, indeed. I don't think Don knew she was married so he may have sent that book to her. Think she had to get married? Remember how she suddenly took off on a cruise last season? Her husband doesn't seem like her type(if Don is her type).
I am not digging these new blogs, to many of them. Too many topics going on. I liked last years better, easier to find everyone!
Okay, it was dumb of me to say about the pillow, but I have never seen TWO babies in the new season, so thats what I came up with, a fokin' pillow in Anitas stomach!
I believe that Peggys baby is a boy with that blond hair!
The Peggy storyline is going to be interesting. I wonder if Trudy will ever find out that her husband did father a child, and I wonder if he'll ever know too.
Loved the period details, the Alka Seltzer, the song A Summer Place on the car radio and the ketchup covered meatloaf.
Who does the set decorations? Pete and Trudy's apartment is really cool.
Gage: What happens, I think, is everyone is so intent on getting in their two cents, the same things are repeated over and over and debated to the nth degree! That gets boring. I think some folks overanalyze every nuance and that becomes tedious. It's just a show. Most don't read other's postings, they just post their thoughts, which is fine, but after a while it becomes monotonous. The series was bright tonight, I must admit. I wonder about the ratings, though. Someplace I read they were losing viewers. Now watch someone state we are early in the season, which is really not true as there are only 7 or 8 episodes left of Season Two, not many really. Again, the show is good (to a point) but it it went off the air I will not be surprised.
It was funny when Pete picked up the magazine for inspiration to collect his sample and then the scene cut to Roger playing with the paddle.
First time poster so apologies in advance if I ask a repeat question. I did search the past topics but found no answer.
I love the opening for this show but I keep hearing about it being symbolic of Don (corner office, falling, can't really see him - mystery man) but it was my impression that the beginning is actually Pete. I thought it came from the episode when Pete is gunning for Don's job and the corner office. The falling man looks like Roger to me and only the last silhouette of the seated man with the cigarette appears to be Don. Has this been answered? Is it all Don or three men?
Tonight's impressions: FINALLY a justification for Bobbie being there - I saw it as a way to open the door into what happened between seasons with Peggy. Also lets us see a little more of what makes Don tick. Not sure about Anita's belly - either we have lost a baby somewhere (either hers or Peggy's) or she was stuffing for the cover story. They mention Peggy being gone for 3 months so that would be ample time for Anita to pretend.
Love all the comments! This show has great fans!
I still thing Peggy is sweet, yet somewhat naive. I mean she did get down & dirty with Pete in his office, but she seemed so vunerable when she "twisted up" to him at the party and he shooed her away.
She's still dependable Peggy according to Mr. Draper. I don 't think he knows anything about the baby. In the flashback at the hospital, he tells her to forget about whatever happended and get on with her life. The fact that he called her after the car accident says that he trusts her. He's definetly not attracted to her. He see's her as one of the boys. Except she's more mature and dependable.
"Don has WAY more to lose than Peggy should Peggy ever spill the beans. "
I beg to differ Figaro, peggy would have more to lose. We have to remember that this is the 60's and the double standards that to some extent still exist today. As a male, it would be expected for Don to have extramarital affairs, and knowing what we know about Betty, what are the chances she would divorce him and take the kids away? Now Peggy have a baby out of wedlock, and with a married man at that. She would be at more risk of losing her reputation and job rather than Don who is very high up in the company. In addition Pete already went took the blackmail route and Cooper didnt seem to care. We have seen how Don reacts when people try to manipulate/blackmail him so either way you look at it , Don is a pretty difficult man to screw over.
This episode was very insightful. I think that it is quite interesting and surprising that Don know about Peggys pregnancy. I was under the impression that it was Joan who knew everything about everyone, but it turns out Don sees more than we are lead to believe. If he was able to find out that Peggy is pregnant, then there is a good that he was able to know who the father is. If that is the case, that is ammunition he would be able to use against Peter, in case he tries to blackmail him again.
It is also interesting to get a closer look at Bobbie. Did anyone catch the comment in reference to her bruise where she says she was a dancer and met alot 'interesting' people? Was Bobbie a former prostitute? The fact that she is from the bottom would explain why she is a bit rough around the edges and is able to fight dirty. It would also explain her attitude towards Don.
Whatever the case is, she also seems to have feelings for Don, she couldn't stop talking about him or questioning Peggy about their relationship. I have a feeling this could mean bad news for Don in the future. Bobbie is certainly not as modest a Rachael, and doesn't seem to take rejection well.
I think Don would do anything to keep his flings a secret. Betty doesn't play when it comes to cheating. I don't know it she would leave Don, but she would never let him forget it.
Miala: Thanks, but I am sticking by my original opinion. When someone is married with children they ALWAYS have more to lose than some little office worker (ala Peggy). Always. Don makes more, has more, and as a man, will get further. And you know, at this point I will repeat something I stated earlier: It's just a show. We don't really HAVE to "remember" anything, i.e., that it's the sixties or whatever. It's entertainment and as such, we all take away something different, I suppose. I know it's the sixties, I was there too.
So were millions of other Boomers (and those who are NOT Boomers). Again, art is subjective. This is art. We could debate it forever, but then we wouldn't be tending to what we need to in REAL life if we did that! Thanks for your feedback. Time for me to get to bed.
Don is nothing without Betty.
I was shocked when Peggy came to rescue Don, then shocked again when Don came to visit her in the hospital. That makes sense - I wondered how her family explained her absence for that length of time. TB was not common in the early 60s, but it was still around.
I think seeing Peggy's sister pregnant when she and the mother visited Peggy in the hospital supports my idea that the little blonde boy is not Peggy's baby - it's the sister's. We still don't know what happened to Peggy's boy, but he probably was adopted out. I think at the end of this season 2, Pete will know he fathered a child and the hunt will be on to find the little boy so Pete and Trudy can have him.
Don's face when Peggy called him Don was absolutely priceless.
OMG, this show just gets more and more intriguing.
I certainly want Rachel to be back and often.
TO WHOMEVER TAKES CARE OF THIS SITE: The way the threads are set up is confusing - it needs to be done like Law & Order's.
Figaro, I agree , we dissect this show too much. That's why I just throw out thoughts and hope they land somewhere. I get really tired of people taking the most minute facts and expounding at length. But that is what this forum is for. I get insights I wouldn't otherwise have. That's kind of the fun. No?
MMforever on August 24, 2008 11:01 PM
4) the conversations between pegs and bobbie was very interesting. A big one for me was how bobbie inquired on the relationship between pegs and don (insight please)
I think Bobbi doesn't understand a nonsexual relationship with a man. She's used sex to get power and influence and doesn't understand someone like Peggy who is actually interested in working her way up. Yes, Peggy make mistakes her first year at SC, i.e, the Pete thing, but she learned from that and she is intent on building a life. She is also intent on getting respect from her colleagues - which I think she has.
She may also have been asking about Peggy and Don in order to see if Don was the kind of man would use young girls in the office for his pleasure. She did make a comment about him being a decent man, something not expected. I guess she's trying to figure out why Don would call a young woman at the office instead of one of the guys to help him out of a tight spot.
idraper: Have to get to bed. Really do. OK, one more remark from me. Yes, it's fun to a point but it does get boring (as you stated) when people just argue for the sake of argument. Did you see those postings last week about the blue Easter egg?
There were tons of them and they debated the concept of this blue egg for days and days. Also, I get weary of the threads that are nothing more than people's personal recollections of the sixties, the sayings (adages), the moors, what their mothers and fathers drank and how they were punished, whether or not they had an Easter Egg roll at their church, etc., etc.,etc. It seems everyone assumes that if THEY did things a certain way in the sixties, EVERYONE did them that way. Not so, as I am sure you will agree. Anyway, what is the old sage abut "If you remember the sixties (or any decade) you really weren't there!" Night all!
Ok So I love this show and the only other person I know that watches it is my mother. I am so glad I found this blog. I am curious I am 27 and I did not live in that time. Are there any fans my age? Anyway, In regards to Peggy's baby, I think it was in the first or second episode when she went to her sisters and before she left her sis ter said " are you going to say goodnight ( something like that) She walked to the doorrway where the baby was sleeping and she just looked. SO I think the baby is peggy's and I think her sisters baby died and she resents Peggy beasue she haas the job, the baby and her mothers attention. What do you guys think?
I agree with you all about Bobbie. Such a nuisance. Like a buzzing mosquito.
Rachel's back. Never liked her in the first place.
Yes, of course Trudy and Pete will find out about his baby. Somehow.
I don't believe unbottoning one's blouse 1-2 buttons was accurate for that decade.
Joan is spreading out too much.
Oh please! No late '60s socio-cultural stuff. I could barely stand it in RL.
Natasha: I keep promising to get to bed and I am doing so after answering your question. Before I do here's something for LoveMM. You don't believe unbuttoning one's blouse was accurate for the sixties?! Come on, where have YOU been? People flirted in the sixties, believe me. They were obvious just as they are today. This is an AD AGENCY NOT a nunnery! The new girl wants attention. Some women DID enjoy it, and believe me, more than you may think! Just because women were downtrodden in the sixties didn't mean they didn't enjoy flirting. So now, Natasha: Peggy had her baby. Peggy's sister adopted it or it was given to her. The sister has two children of her own. She resents Peggy because she is stuck at home with THREE kids, and her mother seems to favor Peggy no matter what she does. I would be somewhat resentful too! Peggy's sister is the typical housewife of that era, unfulfilled and yearning for more. OK, that's it. TO bed! No more idle threats.
Please tell us who the actor is who is playing Dr.Stone in Episode 5.....I recognize him from another series but he looks much older now.
We like this show...It is very different and inventive. Odd characters to say the least.
A strange thought went through my mind about Peggy. We all just assume that Pete is the father of her child but maybe Don is. After all he did give her a raise and new office before the child was born. I am not sure why everyone thinks that Anita is not caring for Peggy's baby. I thought it was pretty transparent in one of the earlier episodes that the baby belonged to Peggy and Anita was upset that she did not acknowledge him at all. There were many children asleep in that room. It is possible that Anita had her own baby at about the same time Peggy had hers and she is caring for both. I think Betty and Don are lousy parents. Betty wants Don to beat up on the little boy for getting into perfectly normal scrapes that all children get into and are no big deal. Don takes his little girl to the office and totally ignores her to the point that she gets intoxicated without him noticing. Swell parents!
Don is everything without the albatross that is SAB!
Just a hint of a time line here
peggy's baby born after nixon lost election to jfk nov. 1960
this 5th epeisode takes place around may19 1962
mm sings hbday to jfk
I love don's creativity I love his charachter. He is a good person. betty is shallow and does not love her son. why? perhaps he is not don's?
this show has mystery after mystery
This show is many things.
Not just a clue to the clueless young women of today that have no idea that the feminist movement
did do some good for us. they changed us, and how we brought up our sons and daughters.
its an insight to marriage, family,
stress, lies, manipulation, health and pure
art television at its best.
Ok, it's my turn and I'm going to watch the show!!!!!!!!!!!See you after!!!!
I find it hard to believe that Peggy's baby is out there with some other family. It doesn't leave the door open for future tension about its existence and Pete being the father if the child is totally out of the picture.
I'm hoping this is a start to a new Peggy who becomes a little more "womanly" and less dowdy and about how she navigates the workplace. Ugh, it must have been so frustrating at that time. My old boss started working in advertising in the 70's and even then men and women started in different positions (women in a more clerical-type role.) She fought it and was the first woman to start in the "man's" position. Yeah!
Mimi, I just want you to know that this young woman has never forgotten what people who fought in the Women's Movement and CIvil Rights Movement did for her! As much as I like Mad Men, I didn't need the show as some "reminder" of that!
There are a lot of young women creating blogs and such who are quite aware of the struggles of back in the day! Please don't generalize!
Figaro, thank you for the reply, even though I am fully aware of that this is a tv show, and that art is subjective. My post was not meant to inform or even persuade you, only to express my difference in opinion. Take it or leave it, goodnight.
Don's comment to Bobbi about not feeling anything, reinforces why he's able to betray his wife and family without any remorse. We see this again and again, he has little guilt or remorse-and it's another reason he can push his wife around, because he doesn't see her as his victim anymore.
I enjoyed Joans comments to her former lover, Sterling, about his unhappy marriage. I think she hit a nerve.
Don and Bobbi are both self-created personas. Very interesting to see this shared similarity in both characters.
Peggy's mental health was obviously an issue, but how could it be so traumatic when she didn't even know she was pregnant? Her mother seemed to know of the baby.
visan
a lot of young women in power do not have a clue. t
They are even resentful to the womans movement ,they see it as a failure . after all we still do not have equal pay, oprah did a fabulous show on it years ago.i am glad you are knowledgeable and your right, generalizations are never accurate.but why is not your generation carrying the ball . get us equal pay
I like Don's new Secretary!...she's a hottie!!!! Joan is somehow 'lacking' next to her charms in my opinion.
Racheal's back (for a second) YAAAAAA!
Bobbie still diddling Don (almost) BOOOOOO!
Pete's 'swimmers' are powerful - YAAAAAAA!
Peggy was born a women - Boooooo! (LOL).
Sterling and Joan are talking- Yaaaaaa!
Joan got engaged - Booooo!
Pete stood up to his wife! - Yaaaaaaa!
Don's wife toke away Don's salt at dinner- Boooo!
Kosgrove chatted up the 'New Girl'- Yaaaaaaa!
Someone played Mozart on their Zipper- Booooo!
So yeah....it was an "OK" episode....more chicks!...Less Bobbie! I soo wanted to see Paul ask the new girl about "liking Ukrainian Food"- it's a gag on the DVD commentaries.
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
One reason some of you re having a hard time figuring out what things mean on the show is because people were more private in the 50's and 60's and didn't put their business in the street like it is done now. A' baby out of wedlock was a BIG thing. People got married then, I was there in the 50's and 60's and this program is right on. I think the writers throw a scene and and then unfold it over the next season. This is the BEST tv show I have ever seen and most interesting. After the first episode of Season 2 I was lucky enough to find all of Season 1 on Comcast On Demand. It all falls in places. The writing is fantastic. We will be seeing the story of Peggy's baby if it is alive before the end of this season and I would venture that Pete will know about it too. The affairs were right on also, as sex was there in the workplace and everywhere else, but more discrete and quiet than it is now. It was a lot more fun then when Men made the moves!
Im glad that others caught Peggy's intentional point of calling Don by his first name after she made him pay back the bail money she had given him. I think that she realized that although she had done him a big favor, and he had done the same for her in the past, that in a way they were now even and that he wasn't going to let her slack. She had to stand her ground.
As for the baby, I think the jury is still out. Peggy's sister, Anita, was definately pregnant, but there is also a possibility that something happened to her own child during birth. If that were the case it would make sense that she would raise Peggy's child as her own without question in the parish. Everyone would just think it was her baby, not Peggy's. I haven't seen another baby, but am I missing something?
I think the revelation of Don's deeper connection to Peggy made a lot of sense. He basically held her job for her while she was getting it together. His comment about,"this never happening" and "moving forward" was so in tune with his own mantra that he was able to give Peggy the confidence that she really could go forward without looking back. I have a feeling that we will see more flashbacks of their conversations.
As for Don and Bobbie....well that's going to be explosive. She's the perfect nauty temptress that has the balls to make Don burst into flames. This is going to get HOT! You think she has forgotten his little crotch grab? Look out Donny!
i only posted once, ???
Figaro:
Well, of course women flirted in the '60s. But, unbuttoning their blouses? In an office setting?
I thought that the unbuttoned thing came in the '80s and then as a fashion statement.
Anyway, what do I know? I was just a little prep in the '60s.
Tonight's episode, "The New Girl"--and the episodes leading to it--has me convinced that season 2 is the equal of, if not superior to, Season 1. Congratulations to all involved in this series. You have destroyed the "sophomore slump" so common of TV series. Eat your hearts out, HBO!
Great Episode!
I loved all the biplay between Bobbi and Peggy--what a surprising twist in the story line--seeing bobbi with her hair down so to speak--no make up and being sincere with peggy made her more likeable.
I also liked the way she confided to Don about the way she had invented and reinvented herself--realizing that what men called "negotiation" was something she had been doing all her life. Once she had that aha moment, she made her opportunity and seized her opportunity just as Don had done - maybe that is why she realizes they have something in common.
As for the Rachel and new husband thing--did anyone else notice that the new husband called Don Draper "Mr. Curtain!" I think he may have done it on purpose to say that Don is so out of the picture, his wife has never mentioned him as the great love of her life etc etc
It was a clever and comic put down--to take Don down a peg or two --a kind of gallant favour so she wouldn't be too shaken by the chance encounter.
One more thing--julia a new poster brought up the subjecty of the opening credits---
I think they are superb in the way they evoke the art of the sixties but in a far slicker fashion. The credit of the falling man--and the shadow silhouette was usd in the opening credits of Hitcock's vertigo and in countless other
films and TV shows of the sixties. I think the outline of the body in Anatomy of a Murder.
Hitcock also comes to mind because Cary Grant in North by Northwest plays an advertising executive who remains immaculate in his "gray flannel suit" another famous novel and film of the period--no matter how many adventures and misadventures he has- in the course of the film!
Great opening theme music--absolutely picture perfect!
I am so satisfied! You know these episodes could stand alone. Like a short movie! It's so good. I can go to sleep now thinking about Don's philosophy, "It's shocking at how 'it didn't happen' it can be"...."you go forward"...
Are we sure Joan's fiance actually exists? Have we seen him yet? Was he at that party in New Jersey? I don't remember.
OK, let's get real. Does anybody really think that Rachel prefers banging that dog looking husband of her's to THE DON? This is an absolute no brainer folks that dude was BORING TO THE MAX. Time to set an over under line for when Don and Rachel hook up again. I'M SETTING IT AT 3 EPISODES. Get your picks in.
Mad Men QUIZ question: How many of the men at Sterling Cooper that we know to be married haven't cheated on-screen?
chopin47- thanks for your response! I would love to see how the relationship between those two.
Montana- rachel's hubby didn't say "Mr. Curtain" he said to rachel that we're going to miss the curtain- indicating that they're seeing a show.
I'm loving all of the responses to this thread- its been very helpful. I was very shocked to see anita pregnant becuase I feel way more confused. Hopefully we'll see that twist develop this season. I really found pete's talk with the dr stone similar to a confessinal. How he thinks the world at that time and his attitude about his job (being replaceable and all) was quite astounding to me.
Loved Rachel's dress by the way!!!
I noticed Rachel came looked like she wet herself when she saw Don and Rachel still had the Hots for each other. And Rachel is trouble because she is a Hypocrite and only a fair weather women. She'd turn on Don in a heartbeat. Bobbi, is turning out to be a good ally for Don, in spite of the fact that they are only lovers. Wow! how heavy is it that Don visited Peggy in the hospital? Does he feel like she had helped him when Pete had him under the Gun? (When peggy was crying to him about bad people getting away with stuff). I think Peggy might eventually become powerful in the office and somehow save Don's ass again down the line. I don't know if personally or professionally but the plot does thicken doesn't it?
Peggy's baby was given up for adoption. Peggy's behavior (her unwillingness to believe she had a baby) led the state of NY to make that decision for her and order her temporary commitment. Her sister Anita was simply pregnant at about the same time.
We were tricked cleverly by the writers at first to think that Anita was raising Peggy's baby--how awful. But in fact that baby in the bedroom is Anita's.
Anita would sure have complained in confession that she was raising Peggy's baby to the young priest (who one day will strum his mandolin out of the priesthood, say, about 1973) because Anita is angry that her mother forgives her sister and that the young priest is impressed with Peggy while she gets stuck with the fruits of her "goodness"-- a crap outer boro life.
It was just not sensible to think her own family was going to make Peggy hold her own "secret" baby in church. Catholic guilt was a force in those days, but it wasn't the inquisition! The unpleasantness of holding her own sister's similarly aged child was what that scene a few eps ago was about. The writers just loved making us freak out by giving us some pieces. That's why they're great. They make us take a while to figure it out.
In conversation with Bobbi, Peggy hints at her underlying anxiety about that baby now out in the world somewhere when she mentions to Bobbi that "a child in our neighborhood hit his head and died." She's living with that phamtom pain and this comment is clearly meant to show us the dual track she is on. Every bad story about some kid that age will haunt her a bit. She's taken Draper's advice, but there's a cost, unlike the Whitmans, Peggy's "moving forward" from an innocent who never called her whoreson etc. So she has her own even more painful version of this road to follow, in some ways far worse than Don.
Don's knowing about Peggy's secret is actually more important to another relationship. The Don/Pete one. C'mon people, after how the show finally explains why the relatives of the real Don Draper have never come looking for him, the next biggest question sitting out there is how the hell Pete doesn't destroy Don with his knowledge about his true identity.
(I loved Harry's season 1 comment about how no one knows Don: "I've tried lifting that rock, He's like Batman.")
To re-balance the relationship between Don and Pete, the writers had to give Don something HUGE on Pete. And in proper 1962 with a respected family name, but one with no family money any more it turns out, Pete cannot have it come out that he fathered a child out of wedlock with a co-worker, the very co-worker now writing the copy for the account his father in law handed him. And after ep 5 tonight, Trudy knows Pete's no George Washington. Daddy loves his little girl and Pete would take a serious beat down on multiple levels (financial, social, maybe even professional) if Trudy learned Pete had already "given" someone a baby.
Don, as a man who is always on guard over his identity, and a brilliant salesman, is very good a piecing together the secrets of others, and their weaknesses. By knowing about Peggy, he is on co