Not sure yet ... I've only watched it twice so far. I need to watch it another time and then on the 4th time thru I'll take notes and post my reflections. I think this was one of those "no big actions" episodes that served to lay the ground work for future episodes. We got a lot of information and insight into characters. Interesting to watch the office thru Sally's eyes.

Usually stratospheric standard. However, a small technical note. Playing behind the closing scene was "Wachet auf" (Sleepers awake); a chorale from a well-known Bach cantata. The text is associated with Martin Luther. It is very unlikely that anything Back would be played in a pre-Vatican II Catholic church.

Than you Clayton! Whew, now we can all comment at this thread about anything we want without having to jump through umpteen "topics".

I think Betty's a big prima donna complainer. Don has all the responsibility for supporting the family, with all the stress, hours, and perils that entails. Then you have Betty who's responsibility is to take care of the children. Remember Don said, he doesn't care about meals and cleaning, he wants her to be a wonderful mother to his children. Now all of a sudden 2 little kids is unmanageable to her. What the F? She has a maid and sometimes-babysitter too! My parents had 5 kids. My dad kept spare bed slats in the garage for just those jumping on the bed incidents. Sheesh Betty - lighten up!

What happened?
They seem to have changed the way it's taped.
It no longer has that intimate feel.

The only quibble I had with the episode is I felt they repeated the sequence of 'Bobby does something bad, Betty gets mad and insists Don does something, then Don demurs' too many times -- felt a tad forced. One of the lovely things about this show is that they let things unspool/simmer for several episodes until it boils over. Apart from Betty's wonderfully icy line last week that Bobby 'is a little liar,' this issue felt slightly compressed/forced into one episode. That said, the two payoff moments -- first between Don and Bobby when they talked about his father, then Don opening up to Betty in bed about his childhood abuse -- were pitch perfect and among the best moments so far this season. I also think the writers have wisely decided to have Betty express her unspoken frustration with Don's character flaws by browbeating Bobby. All in all, one of the better episodes. A few other nice touches:

-- Anybody notice what book Betty was reading during the living room scene with the stereo? Short Stories by F. Scott Fitzgerald (I have my grandfather's old paperback copy of Gatsby from the same reissue, which I think was from 1961 or so). Recall in the previous episode that her would-be paramour from the stables asked her if she had read 'A Diamond as Big as the Ritz.' He is obviously still on her mind; deft touch by the writers (it's a great short story, by the way, makes sense for him to like it).

-- The confessional scene was a really interesting choice. In a strange way, Peggy's sister is commiting some sort of sin (envy?) in the act of confession itself! Lovely. Also, the priest was Tom Hanks' kid, and he was a perfect choice.

-- Anyone else think Roger's 'party girl' looked vaguely like his daughter? Was this purposeful to have both characters first appear in the same episode? Seems a bit sick, but Roger seems to play out his inability to communicate with his daughter with his oddly loving relationships with his young chippies.

-- I don't like where this Bobbie Barrett thing is heading. While the tension was thick between Don and Betty, it is heartwarming/ heartbreaking to see him try to open up to her. I hope against hope that they can make something real out of their marriage, but I think the writers may be planning this dalliance as the one where Don gets caught (if he wasn't already between 1960 and 1962). As an aside, the guy who plays Jimmy is great -- he was phenomenal in Mulholland Dr, and I've wondered what happened to him.

-- I like the two bookend moments with Joan -- hearing Don's door lock when Bobbie shows up at his office, then seeing Don's daughter later that week. Is it just me, or does she seem genuinely disappointed to be reminded/realize that Don is no different than the other men in the office?

-- Why does Duck keep acting like he's Don's boss, and not the other way around? I think Draper's going to get the knives out soon.

Betty has more than a touch of "Craig's Wife" which if it gets worse, will drive Don away. ("Craig's Wife" is the ultimate obsessive-compulsive housewife--two movies, 1930s-40s, look up plot line on IMDB.)

The pitch sequence brought back my memories of my ad agency days in the 70s-80s (before and after I went client-side) and also from the client perspective (airline in the 80s, car rental 88-01). The stress, the late nights, the sweats, the bad deli food, the trying to come up with the ultimate unifying idea, and the final part to get your boards right and the presentation deck perfect. (Notice how Peggy and Sal were pulling everything together so that it was just so...) You didn't see the homework part--that Nazi consumer researcher certainly would have been pulled in!--and that was a shortcoming.

They were ready to rock and that idiot Duck took all the air out of the balloon. I do question the plausibility--yes, maybe AA was looking for an internal scapegoat but firing a key marketing exec wasn't their way back then (and I know this from AA veterans of the 60s-70s and working with AA as a partner later on), but I accept the plot dynamics. What Duck COULD have said to the group (and what a group shot in that room!) was: My guy's been fired, who cares, we're the champions, let's show 'em--which shows confidence in the work and the people. Which is why Duck is a Quack. (Also it shows Duck's lack of a backup contact there, which he should have built over the prelims.)

All in all, this was a strong episode.

I found it interesting that Father Gill sort of resembles Pete, the baby's father.
Betty is acting like a little girl, she has issues there. When she shoved Don like a girl in the playground, Don shoved her back, like a boy in the playground. Didn't expect that and it cracked me up.
Wonder if Joan has a thing for Don.
All I know is Man Men flies by and I am looking forward to the next segment!

OldFashioned / Donna: Great posts! I found it interesting and infuriating that, like you said, Don's life is involved with making a living, making sure his family is provided for, which is no small thing. Betty, who only has to take care of her children, can't handle it. Sheesh, she has a housekeeper /part-time babysitter, Don said last season that all that was important to him was that she be the best mother to those kids, and now she's becoming angry and critical and frustrated that her life is not her own. I wonder if she'll back off now that Don shoved her / explained his views on abused children.

Duck's a Quack -- hilarious. Good one.

One last comment re the pitch--Roger Sterling's comment about "the chase" being everything. That is where it is at for him--clients, women, you name it, he can behave as on "shore leave" because it's all situational with him anyway. And Don's trying not to make it obvious that he thinks Sterling's way off the reservation on this because Don HAS loyalty and keeps his word in business. (Aside from the business aspect of giving a good and loyal client their walking papers.)

I look forward to Duck's Quack-up soon.

Must agree with Oldfashioned--I had to look twice at Roger's "party girl" to make sure that wasn't his daughter. Eerie! I would have killed for that cocktail dress! BTW they did make sure that Mrs. Sterling was photographed unflatteringly (Talia Balsam is a good-looking, formidable woman) and portrayed as a BOW re the wedding to give old Roger-Dodger an excuse to hit the sack with another popsie.

I liked the episode but it's obvious Betty takes out her frustration with Don on her son.Calling him a little liar last week is probably something she'd like to say to her husband. This seems somewhat forced
I'm also having a problem with this show on the religious issues. I don't know if even a high powered ad agency in New York would be up and running on Good Friday in the 60's. Also, I find it strange that the Drapers seem to have no religious affiliation. Appearances were everything, and as a little girl, I rarely remeber any family that didn't attend Mass, Sunday school, Church of some sort or Synagogue...even if it was just once or twice a year. Nowadays it's no biggie but back then, it was extremely important to have some sort of religious affiliation.

Random thoughts:

What exactly happened after Bobbie's coat hit the floor ? In a show where we are told exactly what the creators want us to know, the fact that the scened ended there left open the possibility that nothing happened. This would be ironic because Joan clearly thinks something -did- happen.

The tension between Don and Duck is escalating. Duck says during the planning meeting "and then Don will do what he does" with a tone of condescension. At the AA post mortem Don slides a pitch book to Duck as a souvenier. The look of discust on Don's face is palable, the look of anger on Ducks face is barely restained. Don later says to Sterling that he thought Duck was hired to bring in business instead of turn it away.

Is Bert Cooper's influence being gradually diminshed ? After seeing him act like a doddering fool while the staff are eating, his diminshed stature was reinforced by Duck's comment to the secretary "Tomorrow he wont remember haveing fired you". What will the consequences be for the firm and for Draper ? Duck and increasingly Sterling are aligned against him and his mentor/patron is on the way out. My thought is we are headed for a power showdown.

Duck and Sterling rolled the dice and came up craps. We see that Don was correct, but that Cooper may be on his way out. How will this affect the dynamic of the firm ?

Peggy's sister clearly used her confession as a passive aggressive way to "out" Peggy's illegitimate son to the parish priest. Such behavior was deemed extremely shameful, especially among middle class, working class families in the 1960's. She's jealous of Peggy and since the church apperas to be an important part of her life, she wants to make sure that Peggy doesn't get special attention from the priest. Once the priest gave Peggy an Easter Egg "for the little one", she knew that he had been informed of her behavior.

Hi Clayton,
It never ceases to amaze me. The episodes are so unpredictable! What got me was Don's talk with his son and when his son says, "you need a new daddy". I started crying and still tears fill my eyes. I love that the show is exploring more the home life. Most of us tend to clutter our lives with things in the outer world and fail to confront what really goes on at home. Maybe from fear of what we may really discover and not knowing how to handle it. These characters come from such a truth and I love the way it's portrayed. I'm amazed...

I am constantly reminded that Mad Men's art direction is First Class...
-oldfashioned...I noticed the book, too. So Betty is intrigued by the stable gigolo...
-Pete's shorts (with or without his pale legs) were accurate (hilarious)...
-the socks Sally wore to the office were NOT...
-The glass she prepared her father's Bloody Mary was a perfect match to a set of eight I possess from my childhood. What a memory....

Question: Does anyone recognize the toy Don smashed against the wall?

Love this show...

That Easter egg is highly symbolic (and presented as such) but I think the presentation has a larger purpose. Easter is especially to Catholics a time of rebirth and renewal. Our young priest's knowledge is not meant to damn her (as the senior priest or monsignor, of the Cardinal Spellman School of Militant Catholicism would have done) but to offer Peggy a symbol of forgiveness--go forth and sin no more--and to accept the child. (Note what he says to Peggy's sister in the confessional)

Yes, the agency would have been working on Palm Sunday and presenting on Good Friday for an account that was the size of AA. This group was post-WWII--during WWII factories and businesses operated on all sorts of religious holidays and 7 days a week--and all being NY-ers, not all that observant.

As far as Betty is concerned, I think she is one of those "child women" who never quite grow up. And I think marriage and children is a big disappointment to her, because she may have been led by her mother to believe that beauty is everything, is her key to happiness, and all it's done is get her a house and a couple of kids! She would be happier as someone's mistress, where she could be adored and showered with gifts and attention. Her problem with her children is not that she's overwhelmed, but that she just is not into being a mother at all. She thrives on Don's attention, and resents it when the children come between them (justifiably so--they need attention too!). So, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, AND how her daughter develops as well!

rl1856...
What Bobbie did after she threw down her coat did not make sense until I read on another poster make note of all the 'kneeling down' occuring in this episode. I admit to twisting my mouth and thinking, Why are you surprised? Don is no different in what he succumbs to....

The first time we see SC this season showed someone putting a lock on Don's office door. I could not figure out why that had been done until Bobbie walked over and locked it in this episode.

I didn't get the coat on the floor either! I guess I'm dumb - thanks to whoever for clearing that up (wasn't a question I had 'cause it went right past me).

Great episode! I loved the relationships and the interaction between the characters. Roger and Don have a great chemistry together, they make me howl. However, there were two issues that really bugged me. Issue one, what is wrong with Mr. C? I really grew to love that character... strange but really brilliant underneath it all. Now, is he supposed to be some raving lunatic? Second, I was drolling to see the pitch! I guess the intense letdown that the characters felt was passed onto the views.

Overall, what a great job. I can't wait to see the next episode. Thanks Mad Men... and Women.

I loved Sally's innocent comment to Joan: "You have big ones...my mommy has big ones, too, and I'm going to have them when I grow up." And Joan just looked at her! I also loved the Don/Bobby scenes. I cried, too, Nora! That little boy is a good actor and he just tears your heart out. Standing there with that little scab on his chin from the griddle burn. Made me just want to hug him and hold him. I also like that the show is showing the not so good times of life. That is life, after all: a mix. And the reality that siblings jockey for status in their parents' eyes. I'm sure little Bobby feels like Sally is "the perfect one"and he can do nothing right. Betty sure is quick to pounce, isn't she?

Melle: Wow - "Betty would have liked being a mistress". Nothing to admit in those days, but I think you're right. She sees herself as an object of admiration and affection needing pampering and praise at all times, and pouts if she doesn't get it. Probably why she cried in the car last week. She wanted Don to say "Betts, you were wonderful tonight. You saved the day for SC and Utz -- hooray.!"

Hey, what's up with Don's tool working again (to Betty's great relief and satisfaction)? Did he say he had a wild dream or something? I'm sure it wasn't about Betty but any port in a storm? Men? What do you say?

scfan,
Yes, Betty is quick to pounce. We are seeing the spoiled Betty now that she "thinks" or wants to think she's the apple of Don's eye. She becomes the typical "nag,nag" housewife that men love to run away from. But, the way Don handles the situation comes from a deep rooted truth and sets her straight as he tells her his hatred feelings against his Dad and of course, by pushing her and not taking any nonsense. We never know what goes on behind closed doors. This is simply a comment and not judging, but Don's violence is emerging more and more and now we know why. I just loved that scene with father and son. One of the most touching so far. I'm glad you thought it too.

Yes, I understand the "kneeling" symbolism. But in dealing with previous sexual activities of Don and other characters, we were left with no doubt as to what had happened. There is implied activity, then confirmation.

Case in point- Vicky- she is introduced to the client, she lies about being his wife, scene ends. Is she there for companionship or to provide a service ? Later we have no doubt that Vicky is a call girl when Sterling comments on having seen the bill.

When Don and Bobbie were in the car, action is strongly implied, then confirmed when Don comes home and makes a point of washing his hands and mouth. Later when Don gets his point accross to Bobbie we are left with no doubt as to what he did.

Peggy and Pete's 2nd tryst....the janitor's seeing them behind frosted glass is our confirmation.

In the scene wtih Bobby last night, we are left with the implication that something happened. But what did happen ?- no confirmation. I am sure that showing Joan hearing the lock on the door was done for a reason. The ultimate irony here would be if Joan's suspicion of what she thought happened were to impact her dealings with Don.

When the writers want us to know something they make sure the point is delivered with the sublety of a sledge hammer. When they don't want us to know, we are left with an open ended scene. Based upon what we learned about Don's background last year, viewers strongly suspected that the abuse he experienced as a child has influenced how he treats his own children. The endling of last night's episode left no doubt this assumption is correct. The writers made sure that in the end we got the point.

It's funny as hell that Don's ding-a-ling only works for Self-Absorbed Bitch when he's cheating on her! There's something about her he finds very undesirable! If only she had a brain....

Betty thought the little burn on Bobby's face was serious enough for the Emergency room???? Hasnt Betty ever heard of salve? What did she think they would do at the emergency room? Don should have looked at Bobby and told her to stop over reacting and to put some salve on it.
If any medical intervention is needed...They might want to get some help for Sallys impending alcoholism.

@rl856 & others, It took me twice to see this episode to figure out way Bobbie dropped her coat at Don's feet. He said before she did that he had work to do and she said Bull Sh-t! She drops the coat. The coat is for her knees, so she can convince Don in a sexual act way that he can make this T-V show that she has dreamt up to fly. Not sure way Don gives in to her. She likes to be said no to and then she comes up with something that will convince him to do it for her. She did say when she dropped the coa t" I'd like to think that I'm not getting bored with you" ( something like that)
Lost track of who said it in this thread, but Yes, the priest does look like Pete to me. He said he was visting. Could that be because he was there to see his mother( Pete's too) for their father's passing recently? There's something about the priest. MMfans keep a close eye on him. He is not who he says he is. He smokes & drinks in public is that not uncommon? On to #5

Sally Draper, interesting to watch the characters through her eyes. She is growing up with virtually no childhood, longing for what the adults have. I predict she will be the overly-responsible older sister looking after Bobby while mom and dad go about their self-absorbed lives.

I felt the gesture from the priest at the end of the episode communicated forgiveness and new life with the egg symbolism. Let's see if the relationship between he and Peggy develops!

In the living room (where they live) Perry Como was singing 'in a blue room , meant for two room" or similar lyric. The room was blue. Betty liked the song and the words, there were two too many in her life. What does Betty want from life? Is her goal to keep Don from cheating? Is she living in the bygone age she is reading about in her book? Does she have a fantasy going on in her head that is interrupted by children wanting dinner? Bobby is guilty of all those things Betty tells on him about, but I haven't seen him do anything that wouldn't be part of an ordinary day for most moms. Are the writers asking the question, 'after the perfect wedding day, then what?" as family's are featured in the Three Sundays? This episode is growing on me as I pick it apart bit by bit...but I was let down when I first say it.

I liked this episode, if only because it seemed in the very last scene that Betty was thinking of Don and what he has gone through, and actually made an attempt to comfort him. Otherwise, I think she is a complete narcissist.

Every single complaint or whine from Betty is: ME, ME, ME! Does she EVER think, empathize or have compassion for her husband, her kids, her father?

I seriously doubt it, though she shows great sympathy and compassion for herself.

This was a great episode where Don is starting to open up to his wife, through his own paternity. Also Betty is stronger.
Brilliant the priest turned out. Brilliant episode to me.
cheers!

Who thinks the blonde toddler is not Peggy's child? I don't think her sister is raising her child.

Question for all your MadManiacs who worked in the ad world circa 1960-70s NYC. My friend who works in advertising said that "Whenever they talk about the project they're working on it makes absolutely no sense and Don's a horrible creative director and the account team sucks too in the real world." What say you? Do you guys think it's pretty true to life - the conversations, comments, about the pitches?

That's come up a few times - it never occurred to me, but that would be quite a surprise.

It might explain Peggy's absolute deadpan, unfeeling reaction to that toddler every time she sees him. It doesn't make sense - how she behaves, unless it's denial again. Could be.

I may be in the minority, but I believe that the writers are portraying Don as having matured and trying a lot harder to be a good husband and father. Betty has graduated from child to spoiled, lazy teenager/passive-aggressive wife--the latter on a good day.

Imagine you are Don and you come home after a world-class BAD business day. Your wife looks at you like something the cat dragged in. You aren't allowed to decompress, wash up, get served a drink, get out of your suit. You're made to feel lucky to eat overcooked spaghetti for dinner and half a glass of your wife's wine sort of shoved at you. Then she yells at you to be the disciplinarian of your son. Hey, Betty knew it was the pitch for AA day--she could have had adult food fixed for Don, gotten the kids fed and out of the way, and had a quiet dinner with him. This is the way my mom did it with my dad. (BTW anyone notice that Betty is no cook?) It's clear where Betty is going.

I'm getting that the Bobbie deal is only business and about power. He's having no fun here. Bobbie is a BOW but I gotta tell you I relish her ringmaster style, although at times it feels too modern. She could give Joan a few lessons!

Laurie B.: My experience is later (80s) but I've long accepted that Mad Men is not going to be all that true on the reality of client relationships, presentations and pitches. How do you dramatize an art director (Sal) and a writer (Peggy) staring at briefing plans, then at blank pieces of paper (or cocktail napkins) and trying to make ideas come out? (And that did happen). The account guys are pretty accurate for the period because they were there to keep the client happy--and clients were simpler-- by and large didn't have agency experience or MBAs as they do now. In my time coming up through account management they were the "old schoolers". My cohort was a lot more involved in the end product and we were the ones pulling all the pieces together, not the creatives.

Certainly in my time the media guys were key to every presentation--Duck asking why the head of the TV department was at the pitch was off base even for the time. And as I mentioned before--where were the research guys? This is post-Marion Harper (McCann-Erickson/Interpublic) and research was hot.

Don as a CD--yeah, I worked with a few oracular types like Ed McCabe and very soft spoken ones like Allan Beaver and Sam Scali. And the Draper's one of them. Bill Bernbach was famous for his blue pencil on the desk--if he didn't touch it you were doing pretty well, but every comment was dead serious.

Peggy continues to me to be an extraordinarily interesting character. She is the female Don Draper that cannot quite extricate herself from her modest beginnings. The jealous sibling who "confesses" Peggy's secret to the priest is an interesting contrast to Don Draper's brother who craved affection and recognition.

The conversation between DD and his forlorn son who is at some stage when he is wrestling with right and wrong -- something Sterling never worries himself about -- are quite touching. it is as if DD is speaking with himself in a dream sequence.

Sterling's loveless marriage was on display here as the emptiness of the marriage ritual -- the wedding dress for the daughter -- is described by his wife with a real bloodlessness.

Draper pushes his wife (only after she pushes him first) which reminds us of the tensions first season when she flirted with sterling and told DD, "C'mon don't you want to bounce me against the walls." Later he confesses to his own childhood abuse, which warmes her to his struggle.
http://ronmwangaguhunga.blogspot.com

The priest- I think will definitely leave the church. He's not in the mold - plays guitar and soccer - smokes and drinks as if he is quite worldly- and would a priest give a ride to a single woman? Wouldn't that look odd? I mean for that era?

When Peggy told him that the best way to give a presentation is to be prepared and have confidence in what you are selling, he only replied that he was prepared - the part about having confidence in the "product" was screamingly absent. He seemed uncomfortable at all the fawning at the luncheon and also annoyed when his grace was not accepted as a standard prayer. Why is he "visiting"?

Peggy's sister annoys the crap out of me! Self-righteous, jealous and punishing, she used the confessional to out Peggy so the priest would not like Peggy better. She has major sibling issues.

Now, I did not "get" the scene where Don, Betty and kids all pile onto the bed- what were they doing? Why didn't Betty make dinner? Was she in the bag from those giant drinks Sally mixed?

Whoa where do i start!!!! Roger's party girl I had to do a double take at frist I thought it was his daughter to saY THE WEDDING IS INTO WEEKS. i lIKE THE sundays pitches. And yes the priest do look like Peter, and Peggy's sister is envry of her telling the priest all that good/bad stuff about her. When Don pick up Sally did he not smell the liquor on her breath!!!!! Or was he so full of hisself that he don't knows. Joan did. Oh by the way Peggy put the lock on Don's door. I love this show.

I think Betty and Don were concentrating on each other for the day.

It's not true that priests didn't drink and smoke - my uncle did - and he and friends used to go out to Irish bars and sing. He was a great guy. He also had fellow priests in a singing group with guitars - late 50s early 60s; we had their album, with Vaughan Meader imitating the Kennedys and I think Alan Sherman records came from the same era, maybe a little later.

Don should take his kids out to a play or something, or running in the park - where's the dog? - they don't seem to do things together. is this something Matt needs to think about? Matt did your family ever play or go for rides in the country? Don's not a golfer, so no country club with pool for kids and tennis courts - no boats, no yacht club with activities for kids - no story hour at the library - no parents reading to kids - no bathtub fun scenes -

Peggy's sister needs a little somethign light about her - she's insufferable!

Betty was reading "Babylon Revisited" by F. Scott Fitzgerald. There's the Babylon theme again, from Season 1. Also, clearly, Larry the Stable Guy is in her head. Betty is one frustrated lady, and that whole weekend with Don and the cocktails had a whiff of Days of Wine and Roses about it - which just so happened to come out in 1962. Hmmm.

It also occurred to me that Ken's job appears to be primarily pimping for the clients. I'm not sure what else he actually does.

What did Joan mean about Sally earning more than anyone that Sunday?

Not Sally- but PEGGY.

Joan said something to the effect, "I respect her for being here and working, but she does make more than any of us:.

Typical Joan comment--she can't accept Peggy's a writer and not a secretary anymore, which puts her over Joan in the pecking order. All too familiar sniping of anyone who's been promoted from the starter or lower level positions to management. Peggy's ultimate solution will be to go to another agency where no one will remember her as Peggy the secretary.

If you were Catholic in New York in the early 1960s, the portrayls given to mass, confession, relationships with the clergy, Peggy's family, etc. are all too real. This is the same for the amazing accuracy the writers give to every aspect of the culture at that time.

With respect to the Drapers apparent lack of religious affiliation, as well as the ad agency's business on Good Friday, we are observing the dominant Protestant culture that existed then--some WASPs were but many were not religious. .

Ballrow:

I think Joan was actually referring to Peggy in that scene (while looking at Sally sleeping on the couch).

I also noticed Betty reading F. Scott Fitzgerald. I'm sure Arthur will be back. At least he's got her reading a book.

The priest has a thing for Peggy alright. Did his ears "prick up" when the sister told him "she seduced a married man?" I think he's Peggy's next boyfriend.

By the way, and this is WAY OUT THERE, but is it possible that the married man Peggy supposedly "seduced" was the sister's loser-husband? Is that maybe why Anita hates her so much? I don't know . . . when will Pete's paternity be revealed?

I found this episode very intriguing--but like many who have posted here I wish we could have seen the pitch to the AM Airlines people!

What I found interesting was that Shel had been fired and Duck announces it before the AA people come into the room.

I think we are meant to infer that Don's intuitive distrust when Duck first suggested that a friend on the inside was "exploring" the possibility of AA switching agencies was accurate.

In other words, Shel and Duck had collaborated/colluded on this idea for their own advancement--in Duck'sd case, he was eager to show SC that they had done the right thing in hiring him because right away he was able to bring in a big account--from Shel's perspective, holding out the promise of a new account might help him leverage
a new position for himself in the debacle following the crash. Heads had to roll at AA, and he probably planned on being the one to bring a fresh idea so that they could move forward.

But something about his eagerness did not sit well with the people at AA--the same as it did not ring true to Don-- moreover, as Roger pointed out in that episode, the there was already a bit of a buzz in the newspapers that SC was being considered by AA.

This kind of gossip, premature and inappropriate-- as one of the posters pointed out it was hghly unlikely that AA would choose such a small agency--placed AA in an unfavorable light.
It was Shel who got them into this position--before they had a chance to "mourn" their loss, they were shown as scrambling to re-fashion their image Favouring style over substance.

Undoubtedly, it was Duck who leaked the news that SC was in the running, but at AA it was Shel who had to be fired.

This week's episode showed Don's grasp of the realities of market--not only in the AA pitch, but also in the way he advised Bobbie about the realities of sponsorship for a TV show.

His suggestions were ingenious but they were firmly nbased in the realities of TV sponsorship and SC's relative lack of clout in those markets.

By the way, Bobbie's title for the TV show Grin and Barrett seems to connect her storyline to that of Peggy not to mention Betty and her problems managing kids!

Still born child indeed!!

DonnaC,
I agree completely than Don appears to have matured, or is trying. Don has no frame of reference for fatherhood or marriage. And I agree that Bobbie is a 'business' matter; she offers nothing to him like the carefree ethos of Midge or the sympathetic ear/similar background of Rachel, etc.

Ballrow: thanks for noting that it was Babylon Revisited. I couldn't read the title, but could see Fitzgerald's name. Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose. But the Babylon episode was one of my favorites. Nice reference to Days of Wine and Roses. Anyone else reminded of Revolutionary Road, by Richard Yates?

I'm new to this site (but not the show) so forgive me if I'm going over old territory: What was with Peggy carting around the vacuum cleaner between office and mom's house in episode 2 of this season (if I recall)?

Wryter1:

Where are you? I miss you!

Yeah, where's our resident former Mad Man????

Another great episode.
Watched twice last night.
Bobbie tossing her coat on the floor in front of Don..got it the second time I watched. Bobbie says she doesnt want him to get bored or something along those lines.
The kids were sent to brush their teeth and go to bed early at least twice in this episode. Poor little Bobby can't catch a break from his mother. She referred to him as a little liar last week. This week she just has it out for the poor kid.
Mr.Cooper seems to be losing it. Last week his character was shown eating with his hand shaking.
Hope the actor, Robert Morse, is ok. Maybe just appearing as a special guest star.
Anita, Peggy's sister is obvioulsy quite jealous of her. Their mother constantly refers to Peggy as being pretty. Father Gill asks her to give his folded paper with his sermon to Peggy. She tells their mother she is too easy on Peggy and seems to condone everything Peggys does. To get even Anita outs Pegg's illegitimate child to Father Gill.

After father Finn says his own version of grace, it cracked me up when Peggy's mom said , "and now are you going to say grace"?There is always the obligatory,"Bless us oh Lord". Cut to the Drapers. As Bing Crosby is playing in the background Polly is pouring the perfect Bloody Mary for her dad. You guys are right she's pretending to be a little grown up and doesn't know how, as witnessed in the office. The lack of reaction from Don when the booze glass falls from her hand is weird. She was passed out. Joan caught it.Vicky at the restaurant was a scream when she said "We were talking about the male head ". Double entendre ? I have mixed feelings about Betty. I totally get that she is acting like a spoiled child. She want's Don to handle every little thing. She ambushes him the minute he walks through the door. She's way too hard on those kids. However, Being on the flip side I get how frustrated she might be feeling. She did go to an Ivy League school after all. That was mentioned last season at Polly's birthday party. Can't remember where she went. She probably is feeling frustrated and unfullfilled. She probably wait's for the minute Don walks through that door just to talk to someone other than little kids all day. She does have her friends but it's not the same as having your own life. I hate her every time she throws one of her little fits, but there are other times I understand where she's coming from.In the confessional when Peg's sis confesses to taking something that wasn't hers, could it be Peg's baby? She said something about coins but I wonder if she now regrets, and resents having to do that for her. Someone asked about the toy Don throws .Was lost in Space on yet? Could that have been Robbie the Robot? When Don is talking to his son after that he recalls in vivid detail about the candy that tasted like violets, wrapped in a silver wrapper. I don't know why that got to me along with the rest of the conversation.Don telling Betsy that he wasn't half as good as Bobby shows he's kind of took his fathers beatings as if they were his fault.

ldraper:

The candy Don is referring to is Choward's. It comes in a purple wrapper and tastes like violets. They still sell it -- it's been around for over 100 years.

I love that Don is starting to reveal more of his background to Betty. I really hope this will bring them closer together. They still show signs of love for each other.

Betty went to Bryn Mawr, one of the "Seven Sisters" women's colleges.

For ldraper: The Draper's daughter is SALLY their dog is Polly. Hee hee!!!

Last nights episode was the best one this season.
I loved it when Betty pushed Don and even when Don pushed her back. Betty let Don know that the only reason that he's so easy with the kids is because he doesn't have to spend all day with them. Betty is finally speaking up for herself. Since Don seems to like strong independent women I think this change in Betty will make Don more interested in her. At least they are finally begining to open up to each other. In next weeks preview they showed Don making another confession to Betty.

Hi Ballrow--I thought the same thing about Ken. He seems to be awfully chummy with Roger, and based on his behavior in past episodes is definitely not shy about putting the make on women. Makes me wonder if his "services" on behalf of Roger might be the reason that his paycheck in last week's episode was so much higher than Harry's.

Not as riveting as episodes in the first season.

ldraper-- Its Perry Como singing 'Blue Room' not Bing Crosby.

I have to say; I thought I was a huge fan of this show but after reading these blogs I'm in doubt!!! Just wanted to say a big thanks to all of you for your wonderful insight into each and every episode; some I never even thought about or caught during the show!! It's MADdening I tell ya!! How much fun would that be to re-create the era down to the last last detail?!
Can't wait for the next one...!!!

Best episode so far this season.
I was intrigued by the whole preparation for the AA meeting especially when they came in to the office on Palm Sunday. Pete was in his country club shorts and Don brought Sally into work. Overall, Duck blew it. The firm broke ties with Mowhawk Airlines to go after AA. This event will probably haunt him and lead to more problems down the road.

I also like the children involvement in the show. I can understand why Don doesn't want to discipline his children after the way his father treated him.

Peggy, the priest (Collin Hanks, Tom Hanks son) and her sister storyline was interesting. I see a sibling rivalry between the two sisters. Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode.

Overall, great episode.

Although the way Peggy's sister outed her to the priest was passive aggressive at best and vindictive at worst, she has some valid points. Peggy is out leading a very glamourous life for a woman of that time and seems to be completely cold to the child and not in the slightest bit grateful for her sister's help. It's unnatural that she cares so little for her own child -- and he's already going to have a tough life without a father. I'm disappointed in Peggy for acting that way. If I were her sister, I'd be inclined to be angry at her, too.

Love this show! It's one of the only smart programs on TV and the writing is amazing. I want to work for Mad Men!

"Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode."

k: I have an odd notion that Peggy's "sister" is not really her sister, but her mother and that history has repeated itself. That is, the "sister" got pregnant young, had a baby and their "mother," raised them as sisters. There is a pretty big age difference between the two women. Just a thought.

madfan: Given Peggy's denial of the baby from the start (first the pregnancy and then rejecting the infant in the hospital at the end of season one), it's no surprise that she rejects the child now. I see it as a coping mechanism.

I was watching "Three Sundays" again On Demand to see what I missed when my husband switched to the Oympics. I happen to catch Peggy's mother or sister calling for Gerard and Mikey to come to the table when the priest visited the 1st time. Just wondering if this is a nod to any MCR fans who watch Mad Men.

Uncle, I did mix up Polly and Sally, how funny. I rewatched the end with Bobby, You and I are both right , he said purple and silver package. As for Perry Como vs. Bing Crosby I wouldn't know from experience, but I watch this with closed captions so I don't miss anything, and on cc it said Bing Crosby. I haven't the true knowledge only what cc said.

Joan's conversation while standing over Sally is only the beginning of payback for Peggy turning a blind eye to the culprit who posted her license on the bulletin board. Keep watching....that battle is far from over....

Gail Klein and scfan,
Our resident Mad Man, wryter1, is celebrating his birthday today with lots of company. Ask him about it when he gets back to the blogs. He said to say Hi to all the Maddicts!

Is anyone else finding whole discussions gone? I've commented on several different threads and all of a sudden they are all gone. Or I'm just too dumb to find them again? The topics were very anti mad men and very bitter toward other bloggers. Maybe this is a way to keep this sight civil. But what the ? I love the show and love to talk to you all. But I feel like I wasted time even commenting on those other postings. Did they just disappear into thin air?

Never mind I'm an idiot, just couldn't remember where I posted stuff. I must say , though , that was one topic. This new format is so hard to navigate. Hard to remember what you posted where. Much better having started an open thread . THANKS. Let's do it every week .

I wouldn't mind seeing Duck sail out the door; he's borish and doesn't really add to the cast. with Roger back I'm not exactly certain of "The Duck's" role anyway.
It appears as if Don and Pete have reached some kind of unwritten truce, at least professional level, so seems logical Pete would move up to Ducks role..that is, if The Duckster waddles out the door of C-S.

OldFashioned - Revolutionary Road meets John Cheever in the Draper house. Throw in Douglas Sirk, too.

Though I am still a fan of MM (more or less), I do not feel Season Two is as riveting or interesting (or provocative) as Season One. For me, it's turning into a Sunday night soap opera and little else. Season One was far more inventive. I don't care for Bertram Cooper this season (in Season One he was kind of a whimsical character, a bit offbeat, etc. but this Season he seems like a crabby old man). Also, the character of Duck is just so boring and one dimensional. Why didn't they just name him Doug, instead?! Don't care for the insult comic's wife, either; her character is the typical pushy broad and frankly, she is no looker, that's for sure; she looks hard and cheap which she is. I much preferred when Season One focused on a smaller group of mor interesting characters that I thought would be developed more in Season Two: Joan, Pete, Harry, Ken, Midge (where did she go?), Rachel (Ditto?), etc. Also, Roger Sterling is nothing more than a rake, and a not very interesting one at that. And what happened to the FASCINATING story line of Draper/Whitman? I am sure someone will answer my post with the old line "Wait, it's early in the season and they are going to get to all of that." I don't think so. It's not that earl in the season any longer, either. We are heading to Episode 5 of what, 12 or 13? One more after next week and we're halfway through Season Two. These are just my opinions (please don't come unglued like the poster last night who all but had a conniption that I mentioned Colin Hanks playing the priest. Apparently, they found that comment too much to bear, why I don't know). Anyway, these are my own opinions and views on this season of Mad Men.

To Laurie B: I don't think Betty is a complainer. I think she is a highly educated and intelligent woman with a Bryn Mawr education who is stuck at home raising 2 kids and putting up with a husband whom she knows is cheating on her. She has also found over the years that Don's supposed strength which probably attracted her, is in some part detachment. It makes her mad - which it should.

That was a common scenario in the 50s and 60s, - women giving up careers or hope of a career to stay home and raise kids. Many of them were frustrated.

I love this show. My favorite scene in this episode was Bobby and Don - Bobby's "we need to get you a new Daddy line," was so poignant it took my breath away. That scene was so natural and unaffected, it's hard to believe that a small child could act that well.

Also loved Sally in this episode. Anyone notice how she started to clean up the mess her brother made when he spelled her drink? She took in all that happened between her parents, then grabbed napkins and started to clean up - never yelled at her brother - what a great sister! Loved Sally at the office, too - she was taking in all that the guys had to say about her father and I would be very surprised if she doesn't share some of that with Don.

There was so much in this episode to think about and so much revealed about all the characters. What a great cast! I hope they sweep the Emmys.

BTW, whoever said that Bach would not have been played in pre Vatican II Catholic churches is wrong. I was raised Catholic, sang in the choir for years and yes, we did play and sing Bach.

Flowerpower,
I think you're wrong about the priest. He is young, just back from Rome. Only the cream of the crop get sent to Rome to study - you have to be terribly smart and terribly serious about your vocation as a priest to make the cut.

He believes in his vocation and is acting as a priest should. His comments to Peggy's sister in the confessional were superb and giving the egg to Peggy was his way of letting her know that she should accept the child and the responsibility for him. Shouldering responsibility was a big theme of the old Catholic church - it was the way one redeemed one's self for misdeeds. Plus, the child needs his mother, not a bitter resentful aunt.

Catholic priests used to visit their parishioners all the time - they would drop in to say hello. And especially on the weekend when the housekeeper/cook was probably not working, people would invite the priest over for a meal and some socializing. We had 3 priests in my parish when I was a kid and it wasn't unusual for all 3 of them to be at different homes for dinner. Also, he's new to the parish, so he'd be doing even more visiting because he was getting to know everyone.

Chopin47,
I really think there's a "Thorn Birds" theme with the priest. There's a bit of sarcasm in his voice as he describes having been to Rome. His first prayer ahd to be repeated to sound spiritual. I really think he's missing something and looking for it in Betty.

I think that beautiful Betty is a total, self-centered neurotic. She barely tolerates her daughter and almost hates her little son. When she said she stayed home all day and was "outnumbered", I laughed out loud.

I admire Don's restraint at work, for he surely had several times after the AA firing and presentation to tell both Roger, Duck and even Mr. Cooper (perhaps more diplomatically), "I TOLD YOU SO!" It was horrible for them to throw Mohawk under the bus; make Don tell the client, and take such a huge chance in order to make their presentation to AA. And then lose out!

I must say, Don has a genius for the right touch. The Carousel, with its tip of the hat to nostalgia, and the new direction for AA, moving on with no apologies and shooting for the moon. He is truly "da guy!"

I haven't been hooked on a show like this since "Knots Landing", when I never missed an episode for 14 years. A few of the tie-in features remind me a lot of that quality show.
I do a real countdown for Sunday evenings and then hop right into the Talk Forum. What fun!

Was anyone turned on by Pete in his tennis outfit?

I think Pete isn't going to win the Mr. Muscles-Charles Atlas contest if he waltzes into the office in another "sporting" outfit again anytime soon. lol

chopin 47,
I meant to say Peggy in my post about "thorn birds" theme. Sorry, I have Betty on my brain.

jamm54:
I thought Lil' Petey looked cute in his tennis whites.

I'm actually starting to like him!

Most of my comments have already been covered. I did want to verify that priests at that time did drink, did smoke, and were frequently hosted for dinner in parishioners homes. They also (in my recollection) flirted a lot. Back in the 50s when this priest would have entered the seminary, families took great pride in having a son in the priesthood and pressured them to do so. As a result a lot of men did so rather reluctantly and went on to leave the priesthood down the road. I'm kind of hoping against a Thorn Birds redux, though, as I just find it fairly predictable. I think it would be more interesting if the priest instead helps Peggy find her way back to her son. I LOVE the poster's observation that maybe Peggy's sister is really her mother. That'd be a kicker.

In terms of music, I'm fairly certain that was Bing Crosby and I agree with Amicahomi that the ending music bugged me. As a Catholic from the MM era, that would not have been playing at the end of Easter Mass. No doubt Bach was played at church but the choice was wrong and I reacted to it immediately. On such a day, Ode to Joy would make sense but that would have not had the right tone for the dialog.

old fashioned--I loved your post! Here's an article on the episode I think everyone here might enjoy:

http://www.spunkybean.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=597&Itemid=55

anyone notice Betty is wearing slacks (pants trousers) this season no more june cleaver dresses and pearls

and rl1856 I think this has been covered but when bobbie puts her coat on the floor it is to cushion her knees so she can use oral sex to get her tv show

and the priest ... to me he looks disillusioned about the priesthood

I wonder if Father Gil (?) when he tells Peggy's sister : "You are stronger than your sister" - Maybe he knows more of the story from other confessions - parts of the story we don't know. I wonder whose decision it was to keep that baby and if they all think it's the bad back husband's!

i think the medical stuff needs to be tightened up:
parents then would not have taken a child to "the emergency room" for a minor burn.
if they felt they needed help, they would have called their own doctor, who would most likely have seen the child in his office the next day.

I have to concentrate not to think Peggy's sister is Peggy's mother! I have a 1985 tv so those two's hairdos look the same to me. I know it's Peggy's mother when I see kindness. Initially I did think it was her mother and her grandmother in the kitchen with her. When I was little you could really tell classes by how young, fit, energetic and "soigné" the women of the upper classes looked compared to the working class.

"Blue Room"--definitely Perry Como, NOT Bing Crosby. Perry's version is slow and sleepy. Not one of his finer moments. Bing's 1956 version SWINGS (heck, Bing always did, even in ballads--listen to his timing and approach). Betty and Don would have been moving a lot faster in that room to Bing's version. So we have another diss on Betty--her taste in music.

Listen to Bing: http://music.yahoo.com/track/1159793

^Yeah, SAB's musical taste sucks ass! LMAO!

Speaking of music....There really should be more rock'n'roll and R&B featured. Chubby Checker just ain't enough....

Ah, so nice to see the blogs back, & some old names. Sally drinking the booze, poor thing, pouring all the drinks for all...no wonder. I think Peggy and the priest will be getting down soon. What the heck happened with Rachael? Also, like the way Don & Betty have been hanging out like a family, but he still has his waywordness going. I miss the flashbacks of Dons old life too. Wonder what happened to Bettys shrink and the strange neighbor kid....LOVING THIS SHOW EVEN MORE!

chesterton:
it's the same now, but more so; both sexes.
you see it all the time.
and unlike then, you know a child's family income from their first names--and the extraneous "h" and "y"s: "mykkelah" does not come from a well-off family; "vanessa" likely does.
in mad men days, we children all had the same kind of names.

Ahhhhh, so nice to see the be back in the Mad Men blogs, and some old names as weel. Poor Sally, no wonder shes drinking, having to pour all them drinks for everyone in the last few episodes. I think Peggy and the Priest will be getting busy soon. I have to consentrate also with Peggys mom and sister. What happened to Racheal...who cares? Also Betty's shrink and the strange neighbor kid?

One of the strange things about the Drapers is that you don't see them doing things as a family, such as family outings to NYC or going to even places like New Rochelle (in Westchester--they live in Ossining) to shop. As children, my brother and I (we grew up in northern NJ) were brought to "the city" by our parents and relatives to see major movies and Broadway plays. In fact my first Broadway show was "How to Succeed in Business" starring a new sensational actor as the young up and comer in advertising --a young and adorable Bobby Morse, who's now playing Bert Cooper. (I still think he's going to break out into a rendition of "I Believe in You" before MM is through)

to the producers/writers:
i beg you, PLEASE, don't let the show turn into who's screwing whom.
there's so much more to this series.
i'm not interested in a soap opera.

The shrink said of Betty, "we're dealing with the mind of a child." I think Betty said in the last episode that she was outnumbered two to one. The woman is so emotionally immature that she can't handle even the smallest of problems. She's going to snap.

I didn't interpret the sister's confession as passive-aggressive or jealousy. You catch things I don't.

I took the handing of the egg to Peggy as an attempt to bring her into the fold, to comfort her - and an unprofessional one at that. The priest really messed up - big time. I, too, was amazed that he drank.

At first I thought Peggy was just a rebel, a strong-willed woman, but then they lowered the boom with the "state of New York didn't think so." - she's nuts, big-time.

Betty did not know about Don's father's behavior? I know those were entirely different times and people behaved much differently. Can any of you imagine marrying some one without knowing something that relevant to the other's persona? I almost fell off the floor, after I fell out of my chair.

well betty did pick up a rifle and shoot it at pidgeons

how many people can say their mothers did that in the 60s lol

1. When the sister was in the confessional complaining and busting Peggy to the priest, did you notice she never said "... and she doesn't do anything.... she's just left that baby for me to take care of (or her mother).." All she said was she had an affair with a married man and had a baby out of wedlock. NO MENTION of where the baby is. Don't you think it's odd that as long as she was letting the cat out of bag about Peggy, she didn't let on about where the baby is??? So now I'm just not so sure that little blond tyke is Peggy's.

What say you all, fellow MadManiacs?

1. When the sister was in the confessional complaining and busting Peggy to the priest, did you notice she never said "... and she doesn't do anything.... she's just left that baby for me to take care of (or her mother).." All she said was she had an affair with a married man and had a baby out of wedlock. NO MENTION of where the baby is. Don't you think it's odd that as long as she was letting the cat out of bag about Peggy, she didn't let on about where the baby is??? So now I'm just not so sure that little blond tyke is Peggy's.

What say you all, fellow MadManiacs?

Chopin: Betty has TWO kids and a maid/babysitter. Most women of that era had 5 or 6 kids and were responsible for all the shopping, cooking, cleaning, yardwork, etc. Betty has no clue how the other half lived back then. Most women had a reason to be dissatisfied and ready to pull their hair out. Betty has her horseback riding outlet, which is a very chi-chi hobby, and the massive quantities of alcohol to keep her numb. She's a silly, pampered, spoiled whiner. If she misses her old life, she could move the whole family back to the city where the cultural opportunities were greater. She'd have tons of fun all day long while the kids are in school.

"At first I thought Peggy was just a rebel, a strong-willed woman, but then they lowered the boom with the "state of New York didn't think so." - she's nuts, big-time."

Nope, don't think so. She has her issues, certainly, but given the times, any behavioral deviation from social norms could be construed as a mental illness and get you locked up, at least for evaluation. It was less difficult for the family to fall back on "illness" - even mental illness, a considerable stigma - to explain Peggy's unplanned and unwanted pregnancy should the topic come up. People operated on a "don't ask, don't tell" basis; they knew or guessed what had happened but didn't talk openly about "such things." But you can believe they tch-tched among themselves.

Hi gang, first time poster here. Unfortunately most of my comments are taken so i'll spare repeating. But, did anyone else think Roger Sterling's daughter is very similar to Lois Sadler, in real life? The way she talks, the soft voice, and just the face. They really look related in real life.

And i got a kick out of when Betty was complaining to Don, yeah that one time she was complaining, about poor Bobby and says "first the shenanigans with the washing machine, and now this".

Ummm..yeah I really don't think Betty should be complaining about shenanigans with the washing machine, if you remember when she made it her boyfriend last year. (And apparently dumped it after a one night stand. what a user she is)

Anyone catch that? i don't think that was incidental, it cracked me up.

Greg: That's pretty funny! Welcome to the forum!

I'll be the second 1st timer and also the second to mention washing machine shenanigans - I can't believe no one mentioned that until now. Maybe I'm just pervy (and if so, does that make me ready to work at SC?), but I laughed out loud at that one.

First time poster.

The episode's theme of variarions on family relationships was wonderful.

First, the Prodigal Son analogy. Absolutely brilliant!! The older sister is angry and envious of her younger sister (the confessional scene plus the various others involving Peggy's family in this and previous episodes) and then the egg as a way of showing Peggy "coming to her senses" and no longer being in denial.

Second, the new "religious" family of Vatican II. The priest's non-tradional form of grace (and not just the meal prayer but his actions towards Peggy and the rest of the parishioners) highlights the tension that will follow as the old guard is replaced with the new.

Third, the new "business" family of Sterling Cooper. This season is shaping up to be a battle between the generations. Duck has previously pushed for a more "youth" oriented agency while Don and Sterling fight to keep the "adults" in charge. Peggy eats with the boys while Joan tries to maintain the traditional pecking order of culture within the office. The bubble gum chewing secretary verses Cooper's picking gum off his socks. The "stillbirth" comment by Don about the sales pitch of having to go through the motions even though there was no hope of gaining a new client couples connected to Duck's lack of understanding why the "head of the television" department was in on the meeting higlights the idea of doing business the same "old" way.

Then there were the other "family" issues: Sterling and his family over which one gets the ultimate call of decision making with respect to the wedding--Sterling wanting to use the daughter as a way to show off, the mother opting for "tradition" and the daughter indicating that she has a different plan for her life. Don and Betty figuratively argue over who is more of a child in their marriage. Their son correctly understands that Don needs a new daddy, that childhood formed and shaped Don into the man he is--a little liar who stole another man's identity, cheats on his wife, and compartmentalizes his life so that his adult responsibilites as "daddy" are defined by bringing home the bacon. Betty's role of mother is also childish in that she views her children more as props on a photo shoot--she wants them to be "perfect" so that they compliment her. There shoving match was very playground-like as others have pointed out. The writers are also leaving clues as to were the Draper children are headed since the 1970s will loom large for both of those kids. Sally's matter-of-fact comment about sex (while in the office) indicates that the bedroom door hasn't been locked in the Draper house. Her familiarity with alcohol also suggests where the late 1960s and early 1970s will take her. Bobby's curiosity combined with Betty's rules may lead that child to embrace a lifestyle counter-culture to his parents'. Again, another set up for the battle between generations in seasons to come.

Some more points:

-- Bach's Sleeper's Awake was such a beautiful touch that captured the Easter theme that permeated the episode powerfully. It reminded me of the Soprano's endings with a powerful piece of music that bookends everything and leaves you thinking for a week.

-- Mad Men's theme of inventing yourself -- Don Draper, Peggy -- is caught up against the limits of History. Don is trying to be his best invented self, and in this episode his converations with his son had an oneiric, dreamlike flavor. It is as if DD present is speaking to DD past, the child in him. Peggy cannot extricate herself from her beginnings, no matter how far she goes.

-- Sterling is the perfect example of the Randian-ish self-created superhero. Except, of course, he really doesn't have any aesthetic principle. The silver hair, the silver Randian name, though make him a perfect standard to which DD -- who has ptrinciple and a conscience -- can be measured against.

http://ronmwangaguhunga.blogspot.com

Pink Human - the exploration of some of the family dynamics is what really makes the show tick, and what a lot of people seem not to like. Last season it was almost all about the office (except for Pete who we saw a lot of at home), and now we're getting to be home a little more with them.

The blank slates - the characters without a home, so far - are Ken, Duck and Roger. Bert too, but he's so peripheral now. Ken doesn't appear to be attached at all, and since he's the firm's pimp, that's a good thing. Is Duck married? And we've seen Roger out and about but not at home. I don't know if that will ever happen. Sal and his wife have been briefly seen at home, and that's a scene I'm looking forward to seeing more of.

I'm one of those folks who is so tired of seeing the Draper house! The kids are cute but I'm tired of seeing that house more than the SC offices! I simply prefer more of the office dealings than watching people's wacky families.

And the priest giving Peggy the egg -- "for the little one" -- makes me wonder if he was somehow nourishing the inner child that Peggy may be neglecting (not so much her actual physical child)

I thought it was a great episode.I think it sets the stage for exploring(dissecting heh heh heh) Peggy's character a bit more.

Laurie B (and others). I am not commited to the baby being Peggy's, although undeniably the right age. My reason: I was born in Brooklyn in 1964 and put up for adoption with the Angel Guardian Home, a Catholic adoption facility. It's just too far fetched in the era of a Catholic in the White House that Peggy's sister would be called upon to raise the illegimate baby. Also, I think the Preist's assumption that the baby was being rasied by the sister was a huge leap. My husband and his brother were also adopted in 1963 and 1966 through their parent's Priest. It would seem to me that the family would have turned to the church to find a home for the baby instead. JMHO.

DonnaC - I think that a lot of the reasoning behind no family outings around Westchester is the cost associated with doing so in a period piece. The logistics of a shopping center with all period appropriate cars, etc. I'm not sure but I don't think the show has a huge budget (yet) which may change once Emmys pore in.

I didn't introduce myself as a newbie earlier today so I'll do so now. I have been watching and reading since the beginning and thoroughly enjoy all the posters here and just had to chime in. I was a child of the 50s and 60s and so thoroughly revel in revisiting this era.

Didn't catch the "shenanigans with the washing machine" remark till Greg brought it up. Shenanigans indeed Betty.

Sorry I didn't read all 104 comments. However, give me a f------ break!!! Are there any real Catholics out there? Hello? Parish priest loved to be invited to parishioners home to eat and and drink!!!!!!!. What do you think they were doing at night in the rectory? A majority of priest were Irish and if you invited them to dinner you wouldn't even think of not having scotch, rye, and gin available for them. Are you kidding me? They might be priest but they were also considered hierarchy and it was mostly Irish Catholics who invited them for dinner.

Even today, you can go to any restaurant in New York (more probably in Brooklyn, Queens, or Staten Island) and a bunch of "sisters" will be treating the local priest to dinner. Check out the drinking tab.

scfan, Laurie B., cad men, jamm54,Christopher Koupulous,
I'm so obsessed with these characters, please see my rendition of Joan Holloway just now showing in the contest and vote! I also did Don Draper started showing yesterday. Ty has 1400 or more votes so he probably will win, but, I've enjoyed doing it so much, I'd like to share with my fellow Maddicts! Thanks!

I am an avid fan of Mad Men and without a doubt, my favorite character is Betty Draper. She is so unpredictable and conflicted and fragile. After this week's episode, I had the strange sensation that we are beginning to learn that Betty and Don are truly soul mates. Although they don't realize it, I think that they share childhoods in which dreams were stifled. Personally, I hope that the writers will continue to reveal to us that indeed Betty and Don have a deep connection which sadly they didn't even know they had when they married.

Penultimate: I grew Catholic, school and all, for 12 years (in the 60s and 70s)! All the priests we knew drank, many were drunk at church. My brothers were all alter boys and would tell of the tales before mass. I can back you on this one. We're not talking about teetotalling evangelists here, Catholic priests did visit homes, were greatly revered, and definitely drank a lot.

There was a young, handsome priest who came to our parish when I was a teenager (70s) and we all started looking forward to going to mass more because of it. He was definitely fodder for much gossip. Handsome, charming, you name it. At some point he decided not to be a priest anymore, but I do remember everyone commenting on how modern he was. All I wanted to do was get him alone!

Penultimate: I grew up Catholic, school and all, for 12 years (in the 60s and 70s)! All the priests we knew drank, many were drunk at church. My brothers were all alter boys and would tell of the tales before mass. I can back you on this one. We're not talking about teetotalling evangelists here, Catholic priests did visit homes, were greatly revered, and definitely drank a lot.

There was a young, handsome priest who came to our parish when I was a teenager (70s) and we all started looking forward to going to mass more because of it. He was definitely fodder for much gossip. Handsome, charming, you name it. At some point he decided not to be a priest anymore, but I do remember everyone commenting on how modern he was. All I wanted to do was get him alone!

Penultimate: I grew up Catholic, school and all, for 12 years (in the 60s and 70s)! All the priests we knew drank, many were drunk at church. My brothers were alter boys and would tell of the tales before mass. I can back you on this one. We're not talking about teetotalling evangelists here, Catholic priests did visit homes, were greatly revered, and definitely drank a lot.

There was a young, handsome priest who came to our parish when I was a teenager (in the 70s) and all my girlfriends and I started looking forward to going to mass more because of it. He was definitely fodder for much gossip. Handsome, charming, you name it. At some point he decided not to be a priest anymore, but I do remember everyone commenting on how modern he was. All I wanted to do was get him alone!

Hi fellow Maddicts! Congratulations on the very creative name for MM fans!
I was just able to really sit down and pay attention to the Sunday episode, so glad for On Demand!
My two cents is only worth one cent in today's economy, but I'll give it anyway.
The episode was very tame compared to others so far.
I don't beleive the Peggy/ Fr. Gill relationship will progress to an intimate one. I think he may feel sorry for her. She looked very suprised when he gave her the egg "for the little one". I think she was suprised that he knew there was a little one.
As an aside, I did enjoy the Easter Sunday women's outfits. That was very nostolgic for me.

I was shocked to see Bobbie again. And really disappointed to think that Don fell for her style of doing business again.

The Betty/Don story is going no where, I hope that changes.

I was happy to see Duck fall on his face with the AA contract, but was suprised to see how Roger reacted to it.

I still think Roger has a "death wish" of sorts. He's back at work,smoking, drinking, eating out, and having sex with a prostitute. During the episode when he had 1 or 2 heart attacks, he made peace with people he cared about, almost saying Goodbye. I don't think he cares what happens to him now.

Bert Cooper, gum on his sock,...what else can I say? I'm looking forward to the next show.

Seems most active posters here are women, and I am surprised few if any comment on the stupidity and hypocrisy of Don's felandering: he deeply loves his family but continually puts it all at risk? Bemused male.

The only scene that seemed "wrong" to me was the exterior church-Easter Sunday shot with the congregation milling around, and smoking! I never saw that, ever, for the limited time of my church-attendin' days. No one stood around and smoked, and my parents were practically chimneys! Does anyone else remember their parents smoking outside the church after a service? Thought that was weird.

Also, for Easter Sunday, I thought a few of the ladies should've had gloves on for that particular occasion, and lots of patton leather shoes/purses. I certainly wore them as a little girl specially for Easter Sunday.

Yeah, I don't know about that Pete and his very short tennis shorts. He looked 12 and like a Eddie Haskell to me!

Hi 60's child,
I'm glad you're back. Yes, we are now the "Maddicts"! I think I'm going to re-watch the episode myself. I do believe the priest is going to get to Peggy. Hey, watch me in the contest just now new my rendition of Joan Holloway. See what you think. Also did Don Draper. Thanks,
will come back after I see it again!
filmnoir,
There are a lot of males too that are constantly on this web. You'll see. The show's got us all hooked!

DDs behavior is reprehensible,but so is Betty's. Both characters are selfish, untrue to themselves and others and are, frankly cowards. That being said-somehow those who create/produce the show do a fine job of veiling those character weakness so that we want to watch!

Don Draper, unless he physically/verbally assaults one of his children, can do no wrong in my eyes! I won't belabor the point, but I fully enjoy Don's womanizing. Hell, he's just a TV character who I love to watch being bad!

Wryter1:

Happy Birthday and Please Come Back!!!

Hey jamm54: My father posed with me in my 1st communion photos (1971 or 72) puffing on a cigarette. He smoked like a chimney. When we traveled by car from NY to FL he always stopped (Northbound and Southbound) and stocked up at the cigarette outlet in North Carolina-and blew through hundreds of cigarettes within weeks. To this day, I say that he died from complications from "Benson & Hedges". When I was 4 years old, I was a flower girl at my cousin's wedding in 1969 and my Nana (who smoked and drank like a pro) got all into her dramatic Bette Davis mode when some lady guest at the reception stood too close to me and accidentally burned a hole into the shoulder of the dress my mother made for me. I just read this to my husband (who was the child-bartender at his family's parties when he was 11 and knew how to make a perfect Rusty Nail-now he's a guy with stories!) and he asked me if I was making it up. To all in this forum, I am telling you the absolute truth-you can't make up this family stuff! Anyone else out there have scandalous family stories from the late 20th century?

jamm54, I think they were standing outside smoking because there was an Easter egg hunt going on for the children. (They needed some way for the priest to have an egg handy.) But I agree, in spite of the almost constant smoking of the era, most people would leave church almost immediately, not stand around smoking.

Well, only that one of my uncles got married to a woman with child. The problem being that my uncle was sterile from the mumps! That went around the family alot. Oh, and that she passed herself off as very religious and righteous.

Also, that I went on another uncle's "honeymoon" with his new second wife and his 3 daughters. His new wife was his former mistress.

Let's just say that I had 7 uncles (my dad's brothers) who were considered the wild and bad boys in a small Dakota town during the 40's and 50's.

yeah, zazubombay, I just don't remember that at church. Of course, when it ended up me being the only one going to church on Sundays, I finally put my foot down at 9, and said forget it! No one pressed the issue after that.....

Filmsnoir, Don's philandering was par for the course in those days. Don does it discreetly, does not engage in affairs within the office or in the neighborhood. He would not worry about getting caught because it is highly unlikely that Betty, or any wife in those days, would divorce just because of infidelity.

Husbands and wives didn't sit around and share every little detail about their thoughts in those days - they respected each other's space. They wouldn't even refer to their spouses by their first names when talking to someone else - they would call them Mr or Mrs.

People behaved differently and I wish some of the posters would just watch and learn from the series and not be so judgmental.

Oh another little nugget, Peggy was giving the priest advice on public speaking in the car, and one thing she said was to pick someout out make eye contact.

Later on, when he comes by to say he can't stay for dinner and leaves a copy of the sermon for Peggy, her mother gushes about how great it was, she felt like he was talking only to her.

That's what i love about the writing, they let your mind work and leave you to catch those little things.

I wanted to comment on Betty's shrink. I think it was most clever of her at her last visit to him to bring up that her husband was having an affair. She never let on to Don or the shrink that she knew they were speaking, but left it perhaps to the shrink to bring up to Don that she knew? This way, no confrontation with Don, the shrink did the dirty work for her? Don did seem (short-term anyway) to be on his best behavior. Anyone else have thoughts?

It seemed Episode 4 had both a departure in writing and directly. It seemed to have extra dialog and too little tension. My mind didn't work very hard in this episode. I'm a huge fan of the show, but this one left me flat. To me there too many new sets/scenes/new camera perspectives. The show's appeal seems to be the less-is-more approach and that seemed to be a bit lost in Eps. 4.

I think it is fantasic that episodes can be recognized/indentified by non-plot related happenings, for example, Sally wearing the plastic dry cleaning bag, or Sally poring drinks. Its exciting to talk about these subtle show features - 'did you catch espisode that had the scene were...!' I think it would maintain the show's style not to repeat these events (that strike us) and risk them getting old. Eps. 4 had Sally poring drinks again - so now I feel left with saying 'In Madmen the children pore the adults drinks...'

I'm still anxious for Eps. 5, I just hope the show stays true to is orginal style, pace and drama.

TBC: Yep, I too was put up for adoption through Catholic Social Services in the late '50s. Single women did NOT keep their babies back then. They were adopted out to young couples and usually went on to have very happy childhoods.

No, Catholics did NOT mill around visiting after church like the Baptists. Just wasn't done.

Laurie,

I too had the complete Catholic experience. You're dead right. People came out of church as though the building was on fire. There certainly was no milling around bullshitting. In my case if mass ended at 9:30 I'd be walking in my door at 9:38.

A couple of things struck me as anachronisms in this week's episode. Since one of the big reasons I watch is to have a peak at life in my very early childhood it surprises me that the writers/set designers are not more careful.

Don Draper uses the words "wiggle room" while talking to his creative staff about the AA ad capmpaign. This expression did not come into our vernacular until the last decade.

In one of the after church scenes at Peggy's mother /sister's home there is a bundt cake. These cakes were not made by the general population until the mid 60's.

Don Drpaer's daughter alludes to sexual ideas with everyone she talks to in his office. Even the
most precocious child would not have done that. Do love the show!

Dennis: Yes indeed! We had the whole shebang-- Church, school, rectory and convent. Didn't you just love the uniforms?? I bet you do now! :)

I went to Catholic School up until we moved in 9th grade, so I had the complete experience too. Does anyone remember: Trick or treating at the convent and getting holy cards? Helping the nuns get their classrooms ready for the new school year - and getting a holy card? Anyone remember buying pagan babys? Playing "communion" with Wonder Bread hosts? Bringing toast to school to eat after morning mass (that 3-hr fasting thing)?

Sassy, I agree with you that Betty was deliberately undercutting both Don and the shrink by pointing out her knowledge of Don's extramarital activities -- I forget, but I think she hinted at it before in an earlier session? She also sat up and looked directly at the doc when getting another cigarette. That scene, an epic of understatement, was in my mind the most important moment for Betty in Season One. She almost looked different. I'm not sure if it's deliberate, but for most of season one she looked like a model in the 50s advertising. From that scene on, she has reminded me of one of Hitchcock's blondes -- Tippi Hedren, Janet Leigh. Still a bit daffy, but more assertive and sexual.

I see Bobbie Bare-ass is back for Episode 5. Yuck - I can't stand her. Leave our Don alone, you! Now don't get us wrong, we want the old faithless dog Don back, we just don't like YOU.

OMG, can you imagine if January Jones was around in the days of Hitchcock. In the words of Bert Cooper "He would have salivated". Good call, Old Fashioned.

Laurie B.! Hola!

Isn't adulterous Big Alpha Dog Don yummy!? But I am not a fan of his latest lover (although I'm glad he took one!). There's a lot of "skank" to Mrs. Unfunny Comic that wasn't present with either Midge or Rachel. Maybe Don the Dog just has to have this purely sexual fling to get his mojo back....

Visan: Hidey! I hate that the sexual encounters thus far with Ms Skank entails HER putting the muscle on HIM. I hate him in the shrinking "oh no I just couldn't....oh ok go ahead" mode. I want to see our man Don grabbing her hair and throwing her (well not HER) up against the wall and having his way with her. Not the other way around.

OK, OK, to all you purists out there. I'm not saying we want him raping anyone. But it's a TV show OK? It's the (only) place where fantasies can come true? You know, some women like it a little rough once in awhile too. :)

Love MM--
"Wiggle Room"--Bill Safire, the best authority on language, wrote in 2004 that this dated back 20 years (1978 to be exact) and originally it was "Wriggle Room" Good catch! What would have been the historically accurate expression? "Fudge factor" may be accurate but it's not quite the same meaning.

However, Bundt(r) Pans were first marketed by Nordic Ware in 1950, and by 1962 certainly were a staple in kitchens, even in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. The Nordic Ware history has it listed as the #1 selling cake pan by 1960.

Here and there--
Agree with above posters--no one hangs out in front of Catholic churches except at weddings and funerals! (The Easter Egg hunt was a contrivance)

Priests smoking and drinking? My brother went to a all-boys Catholic high school in Northern NJ in this period, and at Christmas, if the parents didn't come across with a case or two of good whiskey or Scotch for the good priests and brothers, woe betide that student! This was in the era of corporal punishment too.

Roger Sterling a Randian character? Check your premises! Back to what we know--he talks about being a Navy officer in WWII and intimates that he saw action. Yet he disparages Col. John Glenn, USMC, a fighter jock par excellence who had 59 WWII combat missions, 63 in Korea plus another 27 on exchange with the USAF. My experience is that there's USN-USMC rivalry, but they are sister services dependent on each other with a great deal of mutual respect. (If you put sailors, Marines and airmen in the same bar, the Marines start the fight with the sailors and then they get together to haul off on the airmen!)Maybe Roger-Dodger's "action" was on a garbage scow in the Caribbean. And maybe he was an admiral's aide. Always looking for an excuse to misbehave.

I am in the minority--I like Bobbie, find her interesting and a delightful contrast to the robostenos of SC. Think of her as Joan on steroids--and she'd kick Joan's derriere clear to LA.

So this week--looks like Don may get a secretary with spunk. What else may be up?

LOVE this open thread!

There's something great about Tom Hank's son playing the priest. Really love him in that role. Hope he sticks around — I'd really love to see more happen between the priest and Peggy. Peggy is a piece of work and by far my favorite character. Would love to see more interaction between her and Pete again.

Laurie B!

When Don is in command, he's at his most sexy! I know exactly what you mean about Don taking control of the sexual situation. A large part of why I find him such a fascinating character is that strong sexual persona put forth. I missed so much of his whoriness the first episodes of this season....

Hello, new here. fan of the show since it started. I have a few observations on Betty, that I'm curious about. She definately is acting out, in a ridiculously childish and selfish manner, however if you look at her interactions, and her nervous condition it's hard to really really hate her. I agree a little with the comment about her being happier as a mistress however, I think she would be happiest if she had trust and faith in her husband.

In season one we saw her making a strong and consistant effort to be the perfect homemaker, the doting mother, the beautiful wife, and from Don there was little to no recognition. When Betty found out about Carlton's affair and began to suspect Don as well, she got no satisfying answer from him.

Even now that he has become the doting husband, it is apparent to both of them that it is not as it should be. Communication is strained if not altogether lacking, Don refuses to discuss but either walks away or agrees with her to shut her up.

Last week when the guy from the stables (who she is obviously interested in) was hitting on her he said "You are the saddest person I ever met". This was something address in the season finale when she was crying to the little boy in the car.

I think Betty was brought up to beleive that if she remained poised, beautiful, charming, and doting that she would have all she ever wanted or needed in a home, husband and family. She was never pushed to look deeper in herself than her looks and charm. In her half assed attempts to flirt recently, she has been rebelling in the way that a teenager would from the oppressive ideas of her upbringing, but all in all she is utterly and entirely unfullfilled with her life.

Don on the other hand is too fullfilled with all other aspects of her life to give her anything at home. While it is true, especially of the times, that a man who worked hard and provided a home and money was doing his end of the bargain, he is not there for his children. He leaves Betty to deal with them completely, unless to to do things such as bring them a dog. He passed Sally off to Joan as soon as he got in the office and didn't check on her at all until it was time to go home. And then he didn't even notice that she had been drinking.

All dicipline is left up to Betty, and her resentment is spilling out all over their son.

I hope she can develop herself, and become a stronger, and less selfish woman, but I fear the events that would bring that sort of change on.

We talked on our church steps - not milling around but definitely clustering and chatting a bit and OHHHHHHHHH I am remembering now - my father, a busy, Catholic OB-GYN during the baby boom years - DID PRIVATE ADOPTIONS!!! Before I was born my parents even took care of "OW" (out-of-wedlocks) before they gave birth. I don't know if this was before they had ANY children. My father has had his talk with St. Peter and so I can't ask him, but maybe my mother (89 Friday) would. This Peggy plot is so interesting to me - my big question is who made the decision to do whatever was done? Not Peggy, that seems clear. Also her mother - I think - asked her in an earlier episode, "Aren't you going to go and say goodnight?" And the kids said "Goodnight, Aunt Peggy" - there was a wee one in a crib taht i assume was Peggy's but who knows? (I watched several Season 1 eps in the marathon but have not seen them all)

I really do think that the little boy is Peggy's. He looks nothing like Anita's other two boys. I also think it's a little far fetched that Anita would be Peggy's mom. I think marriage probably changed her a lot, and having children. If anything, their physical differences just show different paths they took.

I'm hoping that something does develop between Peggy and Father Gill, not anything romantic, but something that's going to allow Peggy to open up. Maybe then we'll know exactly what transpired.

Don pushing Betty, it's about time.

I never thought Vicki looked like Roger's daughter... at all.

Sally was absolutely hilarious. It's a child's curiosity, I don't think it would have been too unusual for a kid to ask such things.

People had to run off after Mass - they used to fast from midnight till communion. They were hungry! But people did say hello and you're right, it probably was weddings and funerals when they congregating.

If an urban church planned an Easter Egg hunt for the children of the Parish, where do you think it would have been held ? More than likely in the Church yard. In that case the parents of the children would have been milling around talking toe each other, watching their children and waiting for the event to end. I saw nothing wrong with that scene and it looked entirely appropriate.

In the episode commentary, the actress playing Peggy described the gift of the Blue Egg as a slap in the face. We will have to wait to see how this develops. So far she has been disspointed by 2 men she had looked up to- Pete and now Father Gil.

Not sure the church was big on Easter egg hunts and baskets and all that - the egg is a pagan symbol - we got chocolate and made colored eggs and baskets at home, had Easter egg hunts but they didn't have anything to do with Easter Mass. Easter is called the Resurrection -

Hi Nora, thank you so much for welcoming me back, it is so nice of you! I will be voting for you in the contest, and hope so much that you win!

Rl1856: Sorry but Catholic churches did NOT hold Easter Egg hunts for the children. The church was all about the spiritual and religious significance of Easter and took no role in celebrating any of the secular traditions- Easter baskets, egg hunts, etc. That was up to their families to do -- Plus, Catholic churches of the '50s and '60s held up to 4 or 5 masses per Sunday. That was a boom time for the Catholic faith. There was no time in between for Easter Egg hunts after masses. Maybe after the last mass around 1pm, but then everyone would be home for Easter dinner. Nope, didn't happen.

I just want to say that the writers did their homework regarding the Roman Catholic religion. I was raised as a Catholic, went to the Parish Catholic school, and believed Priests and Nuns were close to God.
I remember the changes after Vatican II also. My schoolmates and I were shocked to find out the Nuns who taught at our school had hair on their heads, and had normal legs and arms!
During Holy Week we were in Church everyday. Easter Mass was usually concelebrated. We all got new "dressy type" outfits for Easter.

I got a kick out of watching Peggy's sister or mother put a piece of blessed palm on a picture at their home. We did that also. And there was a ritual to removing and disposing of the old palm.
I don't ever remember egg hunts on Church grounds when I was a kid. The secular part of Easter (bunny, eggs and baskets) was for before and after Mass at home.
Priests coming to your home for a meal was not unusual. It was considered an honor.

During that scene did anyone else hear Peggy's mother correct Fr. Gill after he started to say grace? She said something like: "OK, now you can say grace" He started with a non traditional blessing, and she corrected him!
I'm rambling now...time to go.

60's Child: We have many of the same memories. I missed the palm - I have to watch it again.

Hi Laurie B! I was reading your posts, nice to meet a fellow Catholic school survivor!
I know why I enjoy this forum so much, the story lines, and sharing history with fellow boomers. Thanks for the memories!

Will someone of the Catholic faith tell me if it is true (pre-Vatican II) that Palm Sunday was the only Sunday in the liturgical calendar where no sermon is preached? I was also told that blue is the color associated with the Virgin Mary. Could this be tied to the color of the egg? Any light you can shed on these questions is appreciated.
Thanx!

Glad I read this blog because when I saw the episode showing the post-Easter Sunday egg hunt, it didn't register. Catholics never did that growing up. My only experience with anything similar was in my first marriage to an Episcopalian princess (not unlike Betty) and was subjected to miserable coffee hours after Sunday service.

Hi! greytone, I will try. There is no sermon on Palm Sunday because The Passion is read. Blue is usually a color associated with the Blessed Virgin. Though she is often in white or gold. I'm not sure about the mysterious blue egg. It could be blue because that is the color Fr. Gill happened to pick, or it could symbolize a Robin's egg (also a sign of Spring). I really didn't give much thought to the egg color.

Any other fellow Catholics please join in.

Pink Human - some great insights!
I think the show is the premise for much wider issues that are illuminated in the lives of these very specific individuals. The choice of placing the storyline in the early '60's is no accident. From that vantage point we can begin to see social and political mores altar and change the moral fabric in which we live.
The changes that are about to take place in these arenas will play out in the lives of these characters.
I was always quite intrigued by Pete Campbell's insights in season one. Even though his personality left a lot to be desired, he's much more forward thinking than Don Draper is, and I imagine that will bring him professional success that may even overshadow Don's.
The writing on the show is brilliant! Exploring the themes within each episode, as you've done Pink Human, are marvelous too! I feel like I'm getting so much more out of each episode when I read some of these comments!!

Finally made it through after a lot of reading! RE: Peggy and Father Gil. Too much is up with him. I suspect, and this may be way off, but hear me out, that he may in fact BE a relative of Pete. Remember the line in season one about Daddy having to bail someone out with a load of cash after hitting a kid with a car...? Was that the lame-o brother we saw at the funeral meeting with mom or could it be a smoking, drinking, non-grace saying Gil? An expensive trip to Rome, where he studied to be a priest, and now he's back for a visit...? And hoo boy, he knows about Peggy's baby now. Just a wild hare-brained thought...

It's not that NO sermon (homily) is given on Palm Sunday, it's just mercifully short because the gospel reading (Luke, I believe) is the LONGEST (and I mean LONG) one of the year. Say what you want about us Catholics but we like to stick to our schedules. And the priests know it! Plus there's always a subsequent Mass coming along next and the parking lot needs to be cleared out.

Ok- this is way out there, but is "Vicky", the call girl Roger took to dinner, also the call girl who was Betty's ex roommate, the one Don identified as a professional? Remember Don and Betty ran into her on the Valentine's Day date? She had a different name and a different hairdo, but I think she was one and the same.

And- isn't it a violation of the confessional for the priest to let Peggy know that he knows about the child? She must know that only her mom or sister could have made him aware?

Hi. I've been lurking for awhile and have really enjoyed reading all the comments and interpretations.
I did the 12 years of Catholic school thing as well and the priests were really fawned over while the nuns wound up doing a lot of the grunt work. Priests would leave for the day to go golfing while the nuns were stuck with all the school kids so the gender roles were well in place then. Priests drinking and smoking was very common.

I do recall some milling outside the church to say hello to whoever was coming to the next mass. After the 11:00 mass the men all made a bee line to the bar 1/2 a block away which by city law couldn't open until Noon.

I did the child bartender thing as well although being blue-collar I was generally bringing my folks a can of beer and the occasional shot on a holiday.

Wanted to coment on a couple of things.

When Peggys sister says the State of New York didn't think so, I thought she was refering to the whole Peggy being in denial about being pregnant. Maybe, Peggy had a minor breakdown after giving birth?

Me and my sisters were taught to mix cocktails for my parents, and their friends. No one has parties like that anymore.

I'm loving this show. It brings back wonderful memories. The hats and gloves. The music. A great time to be a kid.

Two trivial complaints:

1) Am I supposed to believe that the bed really collapsed when Bobby (Don's kid) jumped on it? Either Don needs a bigger paycheck so he can buy a higher quality bed or the producers of Mad Men need to throw more money into stunt coordination.

2) I hope I never again have to see Vincent Kartheiser a.k.a. Pete Campbell in short shorts.

I wonder about the back story about the priest, A man I went to high school went to the seminary and then was sent to the Vatican for study in the late 60's, It was considered very prestigious and we expected him to work for or even be a cardinal one day. Then he came back ten years later as an ordinary priest in our blue collar/middle class church in Jersey City, NJ. We often wondered what he did to deserve the banishment. Was it sexually related?
Also, although most unwed women gave up their babies in that time, It was not unheard of for a family member to"adopt." Jack Nicholson, the actor, found out when he was an adult that the women he thought was his sister was really his mother. In another case I know of, a family adopted the baby of a previously unknown cousin and his wife after they were supposedly killed in a car crash. Interestingly, the family's daughter had gone to live with the cousins "to help with the wife's pregnancy." Everyone knew the truth but no one said anything.

Exactly, Madabouttheshow. Gil has to somehow be related to Pete finding out, otherwise the whole 'humiliate Peggy in front of the priest' is pretty pointless build up other than to reveal the extent of her sister's spitefulness, which we already guessed with the 'state of NY' remark.

Yellow and purple are the Easter colors. Purple for passion and yellow for resurrection I think) Doubt Pete's family would seek refuge for a son in the CATHOLIC church - Prots HATED Catholics in those days. Even an in-law of a WASP I was dating found out my very lace curtain Irish Catholic name (as opposed to nickname) and started making fun of me in a restaurant - his wife was WASP with an Irish last name (half Anglo Irish) - it was a huge deal for Kennedy to even run for president. Every Catholic kid knew that. I ahd one cousin whose family voted for Nixon - I thought they must have come from Mars (or maybe Purgatory). I think all that ritual helpd communities together - I still have relatives who are devout and it's amazing how their community supports them - but of course the price is (would be for me, isn't for them) homogeneous place they live (beautiful, very upscale and with such a lindly community, surprisingly to me, white, etc.)

Laurie B- We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of an Easter Egg Hunt in an urban Parish in the early 60's. Essentially we both have direct evidence that is contradictory.

My wife's family is devoutly Catholic and has attended the same church since the founding of the Parish in the late 18th century. The Parish is located in an urban area. I have seen numerious pictures of Easter Egg Hunts that occured on Easter Sunday, on Church property, from the late 50's through the current time. The Church schedules a special Family Mass on Easter Sunday at 9:30am.

Good Luck.

Quick comment on the bed collapsing... they didn't make them the same way back then. Now we mostly have a metal frame that is pretty rigorously reinforced. Back then, they used wooden slats that were always breaking.

Just a clarification, there were three Sundays as the title says. Back then it was Passion Sunday, Palm, and then Easter. The "Passion" is from one of the four New Testament authors and covers the account of the last few days of Christ. It isn't always Luke as someone pointed out but rather changes each year. The Passion was read the first two of the three and the sermon was always shorter or skipped those first two.

so true about the bed slats!

in the tiny little preview we get at the end of this episode, do you think they're showing Pete finding out the truth? ("You wanted this. You knew this was a possible outcome...")

flowerpower, I believe the hoes are two different chicks. The friend of Betty's was named Juanita (I think) and the ho of Roger's was named Vicky. Just what I seem to recall...

ShrimpGumbo: Welcome to the site. It's fun isn't it? "Beeline to the bar after mass..." Oh man that's funny. You guys must be Irish :)

Just want to note a few minor observations and make a comment or two:

- We also had a bed that broke when we jumped on it. The board would slip out of the frame.

- When Bobby got burned on the griddle, Betty put butter on it. My mom used to do that our burns. Now we know it is one of the worst things you can do for a burn.

- One of the slogans written on a display board in a scene in the board room was "Come Fly Away". Wasn't that a TWA slogan?

- Was Bobby's toy robot from "Lost in Space"?

- What picture was on the front of Sally's coloring book that she brought to the office?

Attention Deficit Theater - Mad-Cap of Episode 4:

http://www.unboundedition.com/content/view/7637/50/

First timer here but watched the DVD's for season one and now I am totally hooked!

The whole Sally making drinks for adults, as a child born in 1972 I can say that my parents friends all had bars in their basements and we would play bartender so that is completely believable. I used to steal my grandpa's Christian Brothers brandy from the table and sip it...Sally doing that is just what little kids do sometimes. I am also not a raging alcoholic either.

The observation of Arthur telling Betty that she is "profoundly sad"...I believe that. I think she thinks of herself as a glamour girl and that her life should be that way. She feels trapped by suburban life and will now start acting out. Did you see her hands trembling that day when she left the barn and she was lighting up?? SHE KNOWS he hit it right on the head. She's already thought of it with the washing machine scene. This week we saw her acting out against her kids. She is doing that because she resents them. She resents the attention that Don pays to them instead of her. She also seems to have a "man" issue, and that's why she's so mean to Bobby.

Pete can't knock up his wife because she's not fertile (obviously Pete is!) I think as his personal life starts to crumble (his dad's debt, his marriage due to infertility) he will turn to Peggy for comfort. Then the truth will come out.

I truly love this time period. It was when girls and guys got all dressed up to go out and it was an event. I was born too late!!!

Re: Betty and Bryn Mawr. She attended but we don't know for how long. I doubt she got past her sophomore year. Then she became a model and went to Italy. Then she, ahem, succumbed to Don's charm (and the fur coat) and they apparently got married of necessity.

Re: Cooper. He's losing it. It was called senility back then. As Duck said, "...tomorrow he won't remember he fired you." But I do agree with Cooper's displeasure about finding chewing gum on the rug the hard way.

Re: Father Gill and Peggy. Back then (in most people's minds) she couldn't have been safer than being driven home by a priest. (Altar boys and certain other people may disagree.) That he gave a copy of his sermon to Peggy could also be seen as religious instruction because she missed going to church Palm Sunday to work.

I thought it was funny that they wanted the traditional grace after Father Gill thought he had finished saying grace.

The little boy has to be Peggy's. That's why her sister brought up, "The judge didn't think so. The State of New York didn't think so." when Peggy said she could make her own decisions. Peggy would have been under 21 at the time. High school graduation, secretarial school (a matter of months) and nine months at SC. Mom, who would have been asked by the judge about giving it up for adoption, certainly would not have agreed.

Re: Vicky and Betty's roommate being the same woman. No. Betty's roommate was slim whereas Vicky's "so round, so firm, so fully packed" to use SC's client's old cigarette slogan.

How times have changed: Joan and the secretaries having to wait until given permission to eat after the "creative types" have had their fill. The women staring at Peggy eating while they had to wait was classic.

Joan's not happy with Peggy but it's more that Joan's already reached the pinnacle of where she can go while Peggy's still on the lower rungs and making more than she does. Joan also just turned 31 and her doctor hasn't proposed. Yes, she's frustrated. I wonder if her roommate is still around...

Betty as a mistress rather than a housewife? She's got the looks but I don't think she'd be any happier. Although in the future, once both kids are in school... Nah... But she could have a choice - Gertie at the stable (who Betty's friend said wanted her) or the engaged non-equestrian guy.

I don't think Roger has a death wish but is rather, going back to old habits. It happens.

Duck, on the other hand, on the basis of a slender AA contact (Shel was cautious about saying they were going to change agencies), caused SC to lose $1M in billings from Mohawk Airlines. Remember the partners are now Cooper, Sterling and IIRC, Don. Duck could easily be on his way out if he causes the agency to lose money again.

Lurie B. ADT Cracks me up!Thanks for the alert!

Laurie B! Thanks for the link!

That is the best summary....Ha! Ha! Ha!

fshgirl26 and others,
Agreed. I was born in '71, and serving drinks by 10 to my parents' friends. Also, having made it through 12 years of Catholic school, priests drink and smoke. Like fish and burning buildings, respectively.

I'm new here so forgive me if I'm going over old territory. But the insightful comments on the anachronistic use of 'wriggle room' and William Safire (well done!) got me thinking (as opposed to working) about word etymology and character names in the show. I'm guessing Weiner put as much thought into that as anything else, so the names probably are fraught with meaning. Any thoughts? These may be the ramblings of an overworked brain, but here's what I came up with:

Don Draper: Draper. Even his name suggests someone who shrouds something beneath a cover. He dons a drape? I don't recall if they mentioned Betty's maiden name when her dad showed up, but I bet her maiden name is significant. Betty Neurotic, maybe? The first name Betty makes me think of two things from back then: Betty Crocker and domestication, and Betty from the Archies, whose name is now synonymous with a babe. Both make sense! (Dick Wittman, of course, a man of wits?)
Roger Sterling: Sterling is pretty rich with meaning. It stands for British currency, silver and a 'sterling character.' I suppose the last one's debatable, but he's clearly pedigreed. There's also a Sterling submachine gun used in WWII.
Joan Holloway: I don't know, but the 'hollow way' may be her career pursuit essentially ending in marriage rather than professional advancement as Peggy is choosing? Not a judgment call on her, but maybe what a 'woman's career' typically meant in 1960?
Rachel Menken: I miss her so far this season, but Rachel in the Bible is the woman was the daughter Jacob was meant to marry but was tricked into marrying Leah instead. She struck me as a better fit for Don, if circumstances had allowed. As for Menken, not sure. H.L. Mencken doesn't seem like an inspiration.
I have nothing profound on Peggy Olson, Pete Campbell, Ken Cosgrove and Paul Kinsey -- why name Kinsey after a sex researcher? Campbell is one of the high-powered Scottish clans, with Pete's prominent family looming large over him. I don't get Olson at all -- she represents something new; who knows, maybe a name is just a name.

Ritt:

Welcome back! Good to see a familiar name -- like your posts and I agree with you about Cooper and Peggy. I did think Betty was a Bryn Mawr graduate, however. Am I giving her too much credit?

I want to know this: What does Roger actually DO in the office, besides stand around smoking and making bad puns?

I would also like to officially note that this site's Episode 4 Trivia Quiz has the WRONG ANSWER about the advice Peggy gives Father Gill on his sermon. Hmph!

I want to see the main characters take control again. I want to see what happened in the gap years after Season 1. There are too many loose ends. The new characters all are throwing mud on the main characters. They look bad to a lot of people. Look at their expressions. I want the development of each character the way it was in season 1!

I just read the Hollywood Reporter article saying that Mad Men is down 45% in viewership. Help!

Olympics... don't worry...

The real worry is BOBBIE... my god she's got to go... can she and jimmy just vanish PLEASE...

She's not even attractive... she looks and acts like someones half cut 'furcoated' lipstick smearing on the loose auntie, the ageless embarrasment of the family... Don must truly be desperate... I guess this proves he IS in a funk...

P

Hello All,
Thought you might enjoy a website that allows you to listen to sound bites from old commercials. Some are newer than others, but these brought back a lot of memories for me...especially the ones listed under smokers.

http://soundboard.com/sb/classic_audio_recording.aspx

chesterton
easter colors are purple for passion and red for the resurrection symbolizing the blood shed during the crucifixion
just to set the record straight

Why all this worry about Bobbie? I think her character is there only to prove that Don will do whatever it takes to maintain a major account. She's cheap despite the money, and I think Don's character enjoys cheapening her. He's dishing back what she flips at him - there's no attraction.

It's the character Betty that fascinates me - I keep wondering when she's going to blow. Has there been any reference at all this season to her continuing to see the shrink? She's so desperate for compliments, she even reached out to that 11-year old neighbor boy.

The story-line of Peggy and the priest is great, and it's headed for trouble. Maybe the writers are using the revelations of 1990s for source material. I'm also waiting for Peggy to start pushing on the Glass Ceiling. The early and mid-60's saw the beginnings of the Women's Movement, and this show is a great forum to zero in on one or two stories about that.

I'm definately a Mad Maniac!

OldFashioned: Re; Betty's maiden name. When she met Don at the Savoy and they ran into her old roommate Juanita, Juanita greeted her with "Betty Hoffstaeder! (sp?).

Sixties Survivor, I agree that Betty is fascinating, and ultimately a sympathetic character. I see her on this weird narrative arc where in the first season, she is like a child -- manifested by the one trusting relationship she has is with the little boy. Second Season is shaping up to be almost a 'teenager' phase with stable boy Arthur, who is young and immature -- yet perceptive, noting that she is profoundly sad as she confessed to the little boy in Season One. I think she strays this year; seems fitting with her development. Who knows? Maybe she'll end up a mature, even-headed woman like Rachel, or maybe she will breakdown.

Laurie B. -- well done! I knew there was a moment where they gave her name. I'll have to watch that scene over weekend to hear it better.

Betty is emotionally detached from her children. Her treatment of Bobby is so childish. Bobby is getting the blunt end of Betty's frustration with Don. Don's reaction to Bobby playing with the toy was to throw it against the wall, was perfect. It was very obvious Don was dealing with three bickering children.

Don gets my sympathy for marrying a dingbat!

Laurie B and oldfashioned, imdb stated that Betty's maiden name was Hoffstadt, but I also thought I heard Juanita utter an extra syllable at the end....I'd have to listen again.

Thanks to all you great writers on this board, I have no comments! You've said it all and then some, and reading the comments has really rounded out the viewing experience. Reading the intelligent posts on every subject, including Catholicism, has been educational as well as fascinating, and I was raised Catholic! (Not a very good one, obviously.....)

Those of you who remember those days are especially valuable since the world today is SO completely different. If it weren't for those of you who were there, I doubt anyone would believe half the s**t really happened the way Matt Weiner depicts. But it did.

There is a new level of discomfort in Season Two, which is uncovering darker, more disturbing traits in the characters.

I was appalled at Joan's insensitive, seemingly-racist comments and callous attitude toward Sheila.

I was appalled that an otherwise sensitve Betty would cruelly pick on a sweet little boy, let alone her own child.

[What we are seeing develop there is the classic dysfunctional family. Bobbie's role is the black sheep. Sally has the requisite weight problem / future eating disorder. No one talks about anything, everyone needs parenting, and everyone is as mad as Hell.]

I was appalled that Don lowered himself to "do" that trash Bobbie for reasons other than the heart. His standards are dropping and it's not pretty.

His behavior was incredibly crude and angry (as well as risky) and I'm not sure I like where this is going. The whole hand and napkin thing, at the table afterward, made me throw up in my mouth a little. And the hand- and face-washing as soon as he hit the door that night was also a little TMI.

[Honestly, any woman with two brain cells KNOWS this to be a VERY bad sign. Betty and her denial kill me. No wonder she's angry.]

Many times, a wife just "knows" there is another woman, and I think Betty has been stacking them up in the back of her mind. I think she's getting ready to "blow."

As far as those scenes, it kind of felt like AMC was competing with HBO and SHO with that particular extreme display. You know, "we can't have profanity (which I have NOT missed one bit, surprisingly) but we can stage something equally shocking."

Don's main saving grace, and the reason we forgive him for his flaws, might actually BE his class and his twisted sense of integrity. Degrading that makes him a lot less likeable.

The one fact those details did paint for me is that Don Draper can be crazy passionate with just about any woman on the planet but his own wife.

The bedroom scenes between them are lukewarm at best, but yet Don can go out and get freaky in a car with some hardened tramp he doesn't know.

Betty is equally guarded with her husband, as he is with her. Like many marriages, they both have different reasons for their issues with intimacy, but there are times when they seem like downright strangers.

Don Draper's cavalier attitude toward shady sex is one way of expressing anger and, hence, self-loathing. Betty Draper getting manure inside her car, not caring, and throwing out a spontaneous, bitter comment about her children, is another.

Angry people do angry things, and I think this is going to get worse before it gets better.

I am appalled at various times that husbands Don and Pete drop the ball so thoroughly on their devoted wives.

Is it me? Are MY expectations too high?

One topical point I wanted to note, with some gratitude, is the fact that all Don Draper's lovers are WOMEN. Not girls. More true to that time, all his lovers are fully actualized, womanly adults, as opposed to the skanky blonde 20-something porn starlet of the week.

With all that being said, I am guessing all this discomfort is there for a reason - to bring us back next week.

The light of day is harsh but, like the Sopranos, it's partly the flaws that keep us riveted.

Like a bad accident, we can't look away and, appalled or not, I can't wait to see what happens next.

......about Bobbie's toy robot, again I'd have to take another look, but I think it might be the Asukasa Thunder Robot first manufactured in the early 1960s.....

check out this link.....

http://www.robotisland.com/product_info.php/products_id/498

anyone know for sure?

just curious......

Dry Manhattan, I need a pitcherful of your namesake...that robot now has gone up to $10,000!

Personally I thought Bobby's toy was Robbie the Robot, introduced in Disney's "Forbidden Planet", but it was different.

Is it just me or another bit of weirdness glomming onto my tired and still at work brain....
DD's son=Bobby
The woman that makes DD wash out his mouth with soap=Bobbie

Because Betty went to Bryn Maur and cracks open F. Scott doesn't mean she had much of a brain. Most of the Seven Sisters at that time were tarted-up finishing schools, where the most desired degree was a marriage certificate. Women interested in a real education and the professions went to Barnard (Columbia), Pembroke (Brown), Radcliffe (Harvard) or the top co-educational schools such as Univ. of Chicago or Univ. of Penn. Betty reminds me of a too well brought up, mildly bright HS sophomore. Is Don starting to realize that she doesn't have a lot going on upstairs?

OldFashioned's comments on Rachel Menken ring even truer...I do miss her.

I finally caught up to the entire series (Season 1 & 2) today and I think this episode lays groundwork for a lot more. I know that there have been some comments about Don shoving Betty back, but I think it was both of them being very frustrated. She's not getting why he won't be firmer with the kids, which shows that she doesn't totally get him, and he's seemingly very frustrated with her petty complaints. I was glad that they had the revealing pillow talk about his childhood. After all, Don is a mystery, even to his wife.
There definately seems to be something going on with Father Gill and Peggy. It was kind of a slip on his part to say anything to her about, "the little one" as he placed the egg in her hand on Easter. Anyone who was raised Catholic knows that the Priest is supossed to act like he knows nothing about what is said in the confessional, outside of the confessional. I'm wondering if Peggy thinks her mom or sister spilled the beans on her. Speaking of the baby, was anyone else surprised that she didn't give it up for adoption? It just seemed like that would have been more logical, especially since she wasn't even remotely interested in caring for him. At the end of season 1 I guess I thought that would be the plot and that she would return to Sterling Cooper like it never happened and move on. She's acting like it never happened that is for sure, but at some point she's going to have to face she has a child. I get the feeling that the priest has eyes for her and will eventually make a move. That will be awkward!
Well, I'm looking forward to Sunday night, Episode 5 now that I am all caught up. It will be a new Sunday night ritual.

Hello fellow Maddicts! This is my first post; I was so excited to discover this blog and so many like-minded people.

I don't think Season Two is turning into a soap opera; it seems to be deepening, especially in Episode 4, developing without overplaying the parallels between advertising and prostitution.

Don Draper seems to despise Bobby as much of the rest of us do, and Joan reacted to that when Bobby walked through Don's door. When Bobby puns "Grin and Barrett," it seems that she is taunting Don, as if she knows he is servicing her as a business matter. In this episode, Don/Dick reveals his fears of becoming like his abusive father, but whether he has reconciled himself to becoming like his prostitute mother is one of DD's attractive mysteries.

The "party girl" does look like Roger's daughter, it's true, and it's not clear whether he's aware of that. He had made a date with her, sight unseen. What is troubling and touching about that scene is how he attempts to make her a stand-in for Joan.

The 60's and New York were the time and place where Freudian psychoanalysis reached its peak. Any thoughts on how this influenced the advertising world in reality (as opposed to in my imagination)? Would highly recommend the documentary "The Century of the Self" about how Freud's nephew used Freud's theories to revolutionize the advertising world. It is out on DVD, but I believe you can watch it free and in its entirety on googlevideo.

Anyone notice how powerless and disconnected these guys are at home? From Roger having no say about his daughters wedding (tie that into the look-a-like professional-maybe he's playing out a fantasy of relating to his daughter the only way he knows how to relate to women) to Pete having to return his wedding gun (last season).

Also-I think it's significant that the preist gave Peggy an egg basically saying "Here's what you should be attending to, now go sit on this." I'm not so sure he's still interested now that he knows.

THE EGG SYMBOLISM

The egg means: The egg represents her son... BLUE FOR BOY... the Priest is suggesting to Peggy that the egg should be returned to its nest... her baby (son) and she should be together... take care of your nest, your son! It's his way of telling her that she has a biological/primary repsonsibility no matter how that life came into this world... deal with it...

P

Or has the egg symbolism already been cracked? Haven't read all the posts above... it's Saturday and I am feeling a bit scrambled, as per normal...

P

I know I am the 19th person to mention this BUT...

NICE to see so many people back from last year (season)...

P

This episode, with the horses, restaurants, houses, underscores striving for "class" and respectability among advertising people who were mostly middle class people.
That's why I really enjoyed this angle in the Win and Walk on Role contest; Draper as exotic foreign creative director:
http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men-contest/2008/08/christianbadami-as-don.php#comments
As a creative madman of this era, I survived a wave of imported European art directors and TV commercial directors. The account managers endured their arrogance because they believed that foreign accents somehow translated to creativity. These guys thrived on the easy fishing in a secretarial pool stocked with recent graduates of Katharine Gibbs. They could explain the menu to clients at late night dinners in French restaurants. And boy did they understand white space and composition. The problem was foreigners had no idea how to sell potato chips, Lemon Pledge and feminine hygiene spray to housewives in Peoria. Maybe that's why the really successful NY agencies never got much more exotic than Italian art directors and Jewish copywriters from Brooklyn.

From the advertising side - the late nights, the SC comments about the rush of new business, the pecking order, the obviously bad creative that Don had to 'save'....it's all still here...in real time. I love this show. The more things change..the more they stay the same. n'est pas?

Thanx Laurie B for the link to Attention Deficiet Theater. It's a HOOT!
For those of you who have missed it, scroll back up to one of Laurie B.'s entries that has the link. It's a great perspective and a good laugh. I've had a great itme reading a lot of the blogs on all subjects.
I am also glad that I am not the only one who was getting a "Thornbird connection" between Fr. "Mc Hottie" Gill and Peggy. I had already made another post about this before I read it, so it was so funny to read another person's take on it too. I think Fr. Gill has been sensing opportunity since the minute he laid eyes on Peggy. If nothing else she's a distraction from the clutches of her "all too eager to get in with the new priest" family of hers.
Egg Smegg... I'm thinking fertility all the way. You know that's the pagan version of Easter anyway. Rabbits, eggs, lots and lots of fornication... Yes, my friends, I think we're in for a "Thornbirds" moment (minus the hot beach scene).

sorry is this has already been mentiones but...

I was watching Nixon v Kennedy and the scene in which Peggy is crying in Don's office made me realize the significance of what Anita said in the confessional in Three Sundays.

In Nixon v Kennedy Peggy tells Don how unfair it is that she follows the rules, yet everyone hates her, and people who are not good get to walk around doing whatever they want.

In Three Sundays Anita says the same thing. She gets no recognition for being good, and Peggy, who made a huge mistake, walks around like nothing ever happened, and everyone just seems to accept it.

I just though it was interesting.

i meant sorry IF*

Excellent episode. Though I sort of hope we avoid a Thorn Birds scenario with Father Gill and just see how much impact a good priest could make in lives at the time. Still, wherever the writers take us...

Creepy at times, Roger's mixing of his concerns and feelings about Margaret and his young lady friends.

Don's breakthrough with Betty about his childhood after their mutual violent rages seems a high point in their story. Hope it's followed up on. Be rather interesting if their tale becomes one of Betty growing up and Don reaching out and their relationship maturing and deepening. Though if we still get Don seeking after the woman to allow him escape and Betty rigidly repressing everything, I'll go with it.

I wonder if they actually win the AA contract. The brief glimpse of the AA ad "This is American Airlines" was close to the ads that AA really ran in the 60s. In fact the use of Helvetica as the font was spot on. In the early sixties AA changed its logo - to the one they still use today. Its hard to think that just changing American Airlines in a serif font to AmericanAirlines in helvetica was a big deal. But in the sixties this was a massive change - and it goes with Dan's speech about the future of the airline.

Strangely all of this was highlighted in a documentary I recently watched called "helvetica". In the movie they discuss the mid sixties rebranding of AA.

I think they won it.

DryManhattan: You are correct -- it was Hoffstaedt, without the "er" at the end.

Know what else I noticed after watching all 4 episodes again? Betty's riding friend, Sarah Beth's last name is Carson. Betty's former roommate, was introduced as Juanita CARSON as well. Co-inky-dink? I think not! I wonder where this will take us?

I'm glad so many of you are enjoying Attention Deficit Theater. If you want to read all the previous recaps of MM, click on Kristen Ament's name. She recapped all last season also.

RE: BETTY

Has anyone else noticed that, besides wearing trousers more often, Betty has been wearing her hair more loosely more often, has gotten quite emotive and "firey," and is also using more profanity?

She has begun (not-so-expertly) throwing her weight around for the first time ever, stretching her own boundaries. Just one example of that was her awkward "negotiating" with the tow truck driver in Episode 3. (Really glad she got out of that one. I thought we were going to have a violent crime on our hands.)

Being her own person is totally foreign to her, so she is making a lot of mistakes....she is newly finding both herself, and her way in life. Sometimes she veers into the danger zone. Like any animal trying to escape oppressive captivity, there is going to be some biting and scratching, and woe to anyone in the way.

Another interesting detail I noticed in this episode is her taking on a more masculine role, while Don seems to be exploring his more sensitive and domestic side.

In the morning scene in the kitchen where Bobby burns his chin, Don is seen cooking pancakes at the stove with the children.

At the same time in the background, Betty can be seen stomping through the kitchen in her flimsy negligee with a cigarette dangling from her lips, hair flying wild, unceremoniously hauling what looks to be a GIANT tool box!

I laughed out loud when I saw that part of the scene. And her face! She was all Doe-like and demur in the first season, and now you could impale a memo slip on those flashing eyes, and fry an egg on those firey cheeks.

As an aside, I also thought the look on her face when Don shoved her back was priceless.... he pushed her QUITE hard, she was completely non-plussed, and her expression was like, "Huh..." Again, I laughed out loud.

Initially, Betty's cruelty to Bobby and neglect of both children was extremely apalling and very off-putting, but the more I see Betty busting out, however awkwardly, the more I can't help liking that girl.

I think she's going to surprise you..... She is definitely on a journey.....

As Bette Davis would say, "Fasten your seatbelts...."

MadlyObsessed: Re: Peggy and "fairness" -- What an observation! I hadn't thought of that, but yep,you nailed it.

Does anyone know about Betty's psychiatrist? I think Betty needs him now more than ever. Or maybe it was the psychiatrist that is bringing out the monster in her? I kind of miss him even though he never uttered a word.

Turtle, you said,

"Anyone notice how powerless and disconnected these guys are at home?"

Reading that made me recall how Betty described Don as not knowing "what family is..." (and why would he?)

The irony with Don Draper is that he FIRST finds his way to internalizing the concept of family on Thanksgiving Eve, alone on the stairs in the dark, after his mesmerizing presentation in The Carousel.

Completely disconnected from his own humanity at a very young age, he finds his way back to that vulnerability, the human need for family, via his extemporaneous advertising genius - a passionate homage to family sentiment.

At one point in the first season, Draper makes a comment to the effect, "....there is nothing...."

The irony there is that Donald Draper, a sort of "Omega Man" in his own mind, has a profound and insightful connection to human emotion. However, (partly due to his severe denial and partly because he excels under pressure) the genius doesn't usually surface until the last moment.

Draper likes flying high without a net, and would appear himself to be surprised by the revelations that emerge when he "sweats" himself in that way.

For Draper, maybe advertising is a form of therapy.

Every character in this masterpiece, like anyone else, has a boatload of unresolved issues. They all need closure of some kind.

Conciously or not, the Drapers appear to be vigorously, haphazardly hurling themselves forward into their "issues." Watching that develop is going to be pretty interesting...

Don must be 'doing the Bobbie thing' for business... otherwise he'd be made not to hop back to that resturant and find Elizabeth Tsing again for proper night cap...

And Betty... she's off to the stables (races) soon enough...

Even if "we make a great team"... the Drapers are becoming a John Updike short story...

P

Laurie B, thanks for the welcome. You nailed it, LOL. I'm not Irish but the parish (southside Chicago) was heavily Irish. The parishes were all divided by ethnicity. Irish, Polish, Lithuanian, etc. The mix of cultures was really great.

AHA!

Clayton, you are very crafty getting us to do all the work.

I haven't seen a comment from you in AGES.... heh heh....

Thanks Laurie B. Oh and I must thank you for introducing me to ADT. It's the best! LOL

Counting down the hours to tonight's episode. Just wanted to clarify the "Blue Room" question. I had originally said it was Bing Crosby singing because that is what closed captioning had said. I admitted I didn't know from personal experience. Before my time, not my music or my parents. After seeing several people say Bing and several say Perry Como , I listened to both versions on I Tunes and it's definitely Perry. A previous poster was right when they said Bing's version was much more swing. Waiting for tonight!

Hi all,
First, "zipitone", love the name, it brings back memories.

Second, I want to know why Peggy's sister said she smelled liquor on Peggy's breath in church. Peggy also knew where the liquor was in her sister's home: Way up in a hiding place. Hmmm.
What was that about? Are we keeping it away from Jerry?

I also wanted to comment on the fact that Anita really does look like Peggy's mom. When she goes to confession she is angry at Peggy "seducing a married man", could she have seduced a married man and birthed Peggy?
Do you really believe that Peggy gave Anita that story? I don't.
I think the state got involved in the placing of Peggy's illegitimate child because Peggy was in denial. The psychiatrist was called at the moment she first went into labor. I don't think they would have let her give up the child in her current mental state. Also, do I remember the guys at SC commenting on the fact that Peggy disappeared for a bit after her Thanksgiving birth?

On the comment of the Fitzgerald short story that Arthur mentioned at the stables. It is a story that really slams the rich. They are corrupt, and those that come in contact will be influenced by their wealth. They will excuse the wealthy's lack of morality to get a flavor of their money. Or what we see on the outside of a person isn't really the whole story.

Bobbie Barret shows that wives can have more power, even if it is to further the man's vocation. Remember she said that she realized that she (Now I forgot her words) bargains for everything in life. Now go to Vicky, Roger had in the hotel. She bartered for her evening as well.

Women are gaining power. The usual traditions are being re-examined by Roger's daughter, re: her wedding; the priest's version of grace at the table.

The status quo of our nation is being questioned.

Thanks Mad Men, I really love the show, and love the talk forum. This is one of those shows that would have never made it on the Big Three; because one must really pay attention.

Also, I love Don's Sunday outfit at SC.

By chesterton on August 21, 2008 9:58 AM

Yellow and purple are the Easter colors. Purple for passion and yellow for resurrection I think)

I was re-reading the posts and read this, then I remembered the brilliant purple dress Joan was wearing at SC on that Sunday. Sally was dressed in a vibrant yellow shirt. They stood out in the SC office.
Was it an accident?

....and Peggy's sister and several other ladies were wearing that very specific color of the blue egg. which symbolizes the Virgin Mary.

i thought joan's shoe color was interesting, actually. her whole outfit came across to me as yellow and purple also.

about the power and women thing, really hoping for a positive role model SOON. bartering your sexuality as betty did with the tow truck driver (a growing exercise), as bobbie did for the TV show (she's a pro), as joan does for all the reasons she does (desperate), etc., is one thing, but what about a high-powered professional woman like Rachel Menken?

as i said in another post, i think Sela Ward would be tremendous in that capacity.

Don is a reckless liar with a wonderful wife. How much longer can he keep this up? Where does his taste in dangerous women come from? His mother? Pete, the ever sexist opportunist putting down his wife's feelings. He cannot see how he might feel if the shoe was on the other foot. Roger cannot stand that Joan is engaged. He is headed for a meltdown because of it. It will be interesting to see how Peggy parlays her helping Don into achieving her goals. The new girl seems pretty one dimensional. Joan loves to cut women off at the knees. As Don sits down to dinner, he realizes that his home life is the one thing he cannot control. Even though he lies to her. He has met his match with Betty. She levels him with love. Don does not know how to deal with love since he didn't have it as a child. He wants it but yet indulges in reckless behavior that threatens to sabotage it. He is barely hanging on in the corporate world, living in terror that someone will find out he isn't what he says he is.

RE: "This is one of those shows that would have never made it on the Big Three; because one must really pay attention."
Very good point, Boop...(boop?) I agree! and if MM were to have been usurped by one of the Big Three then the show's sometimes controversial subject matter would have been seriously compromised. The fact AMC bravely took a chance on it-- and had the insight to nurture it-- reflects very admirably on the network.

Funny how huge the show is getting, I recall watching the previews prior to season 1 and then midway though Season 1 asking random people (outside of my chosen vocation, Advertising, that is) if they had heard of it, let alone seen an episode, and about 99% hadn't.

They said in the first episode of the season that the state had deemed Peggy mentally unfit to raise the child. And it showed him in his crib at her sisters, so it's pretty clear that she is not raising him (even though is is somewhat involved).

Just found this blog - fascinating! Loved the show from the beginning - maybe even as much as the Sopranos.
I love all the clothes, hair, cars, houses, furniture, accessories, mid-century modern, etc. It's so nostalgic as I was a kid in the early sixties and really remember a lot of the props used. Those round cocktail glasses... and sneaking sips of my parents' highballs...

I also recognized the Bach chorale used in the Catholic church service, and didn't think that would have really been done in that time.
Would a woman in Betty's time drink wine all the time? I don't remember wine drinking being so prevalent until the seventies...
Is anyone else as creeped out by Pete Campbell as I am!?
And one more question for now - who is Joan's fiance?

Anita revealed during confession that Peggy had had an affair with a married man. How would she know absolutely - unless the married man were her own husband, Jerry?

I may have missed it, but no one here seems to have commented on the fact that Fr John is a Jesuit (note the "SJ" after his name on the program). Obviously he's been educated in sophisticated thought, but has been frustrated in his attempts to express his beliefs in his own way - remember the two graces at dinner, the one in his own words and the "real" grace Mrs Olson compelled him to say? Also - neat throwaway - it's revealed that he sings and plays the guitar. I definitely see a folk mass in his future. This ep was a great snapshot of Catholic life before Vatican II turned it on its ear.

koo-koo koo-koo

As for Betty wanting Don to help with the "kids" I will say that she means with the BOY. She scapegoats on the son, perhaps getting at Don in some psychological sense.

At another level is that Betty called Don a third kid, but in truth, Betty is still a child, becoming more immature as the show progresses.

Amicahomi - MUSIC - great comment on the use of Bach in the 60s Catholic church -- something beyond my experience or knowledge. thanks

Les - CAMERA - your comment on the way the show is now shot lacks intimacy, I'd be interested in examples, if you can. I'm going to watch for that. I certainly hope they didn't lose the 'feel' of the photography.

Panne - CHURCH - I missed the deliberate nature of the confessional by Peggy's sister. Peggy and the mother see the church as a fixed institution to use for their purposes, but Peggy herself advised the open minded young priest that the message was more important than the ritual. A Thornbirds thought has passed through our minds many times now.

Old Fashioned - Betty is not just substituting her frustrations of the father onto the son, but is showing signs of rejecting the responsibilities of being a mother. This is a step toward cheating, and at the country club she is not pleased when her children disrupted her new come and get it signals to the guy who forced a kiss on her. Betty wants someone to control her.

RL1856 - "Peggy and Pete's 2nd tryst....the janitor's seeing them behind frosted glass is our confirmation."
So true, and that was the janitor from the elevator, once again the 'colored' worker is set in a station just below, but shows a moral judgment by observation.
Then again, in an earlier episode, there was the black maintenance man trying to satisfy Joan as to where to put the copier. "I'll put IT anywhere you want. I'll try all the places you say." Joan got the message, but didn't react at all, above it all, yet not indicating it was beneath her. Joan lets a man have his fantasy and thrill.

Madfan - Peggy is indifferent to her child because she had DENIED him, just like Don told her to do, and just like Don has done to his childhood. She is a bad mother because she isn't a mother, just a woman who had a child and forgot it.

Re: bildunginhollywood's comment about Anita's reference to Peggy seducing a married man--I really think she was talking about Pete--Pete was married when Peggy got PG. It seemed to me that since Anita made the comment about Peggy having her parental rights taken away by the state, and then when Peggy was leaving and her sister (or mom?) made the point of asking if she was going to say goodnight (or something like that) and Peggy looked in on the kids--of course that littlest one is Peggy's--her sister took him in--which of course she would do since it's the "right" thing to do.

When Peggy ended up in the hospital, and her family had to be contacted, of course they would ask about the father and ask her why she doesn't contact him, which is when the fact that Pete is married would come out, so when Anita said Peggy seduced a married man, she was referring to Pete. She used the word "seduced" just to make Peggy look worse--or maybe that really is her opinion.

I know this is really late to post, but I couldn't let this stand unanswered. :-)

As an alumna of Bryn Mawr College (Class of 1990, but I go to a lot of all-class reunions) I feel I must respond to the following comment:

>Because Betty went to Bryn Maur (sic) and cracks open F. Scott doesn't mean she had much of a brain. Most of the Seven Sisters at that time were tarted-up finishing schools, where the most desired degree was a marriage certificate. Women interested in a real education and the professions went to Barnard (Columbia), Pembroke (Brown), Radcliffe (Harvard) or the top co-educational schools such as Univ. of Chicago or Univ. of Penn.

Bryn Mawr was NOT a "tarted-up finishing school," not even in the time of "Mad Men."

From the history of the college:
When Bryn Mawr College opened its doors in 1885, it offered women a more ambitious academic program than any previously available to them in the United States. Other women's colleges existed, but Bryn Mawr was the first to offer graduate education through the Ph.D.—a signal of its founders' refusal to accept the limitations imposed on women's intellectual achievement at other institutions.
(To read more,
http://www.brynmawr.edu/character/history.shtml(

I have met many intelligent, vivacious, and self-actualized graduates from classes of Betty's era. Granted, they've told me it wasn't easy in the culture of the time to be a woman and a serious academic -- and plenty succumbed to the cultural norms -- but if you were a woman who wanted a serious education, Bryn Mawr has always been an excellent place to go.

>Betty reminds me of a too-well-brought up, mildly bright HS sophomore. Is Don starting to realize that she doesn't have a lot going on upstairs?

I will concede that simply going to a good school does not necessarily guarantee that you will get yourself a good education. For example, we don't know what kind of grades Betty got. She could have coasted on a "Ladies' C," so to speak.

I'm sure even at the best colleges in those days (or even nowadays) there have been women (and men) JUST smart enough to get in. (Or, they were JUST good enough students -- intelligence and getting good grades don't always go together). Betty could have native intelligence, but just refuses to use her brain.

I'm sure there were plenty of people hunting for their MRS. degrees even at Bryn Mawr in the 50's. But if that's the case, blame the student, not the school. :-)

Peggy was a virgin the night she took Pete to bed. Evidence: She was reading, for pointers, a copy of the manual It's Your Wedding Night at the doctor's office while waiting for her birth control pills in the very first episode. For Peggy - like a lot of us at that age - your first job in Manhattan meant independence but also sexual experimentation and freedom.

I realize this post is extremely late but this has been bothering me since it aired. Born in 1958 and raised Catholic including Catholic School and being an Alter Boy, I have a question regarding the use of the term "Holy Spirit" in this episode. I distinctly remember using the term "Holy Ghost" well past 1962. Did this change happen after Vatican II in 1963 or was it before that? Did the switch occur on a more regional basis or was it mandated from Rome? Many episodes this year have given me goose bumps down to mixing drinks for my parents which I did for them and their friends countless times. The attention to detail is uncanny and it has brought back floods of memories long since repressed. Any comments would be appreciated.

When Father Gill gave Peggy a blue egg and said, "For the little one," he meant the (to us) unidentified blond toddler on the church lawn. The tiny tyke, being so young, hadn't managed to find one Easter egg on his own. That's all he meant in his remark to Peggy. Whatever secret knowledge he had he kept to himself; whatever Peggy thought he was implying, she had no way to verify.

Replay was on tonight.
SC is giving their American Airlines presentation and Don says we have to deliver a still born
Next scene is Peggy's sister in the confessional. She says she took something that wasn't hers (change at the laundromat) but then spills the beans to the Father that Peggy had a baby out of wedlock with a married man.

Could be that her baby died and she took Peggy's boy?

So Roger tells Don not to fret about losing old business (Mohawk Airlines) that the thrill is from pursuing new business and he relates it to the first smoke. Next scene shows Don going home to his old business (Betty).
When Betty pushes Don he pushes back. Look out Betty.

The comment about the bad day at the office and throw you out the window may be prophetic. (Pete Campbell?)

This may have been covered in a prior post, and if so, I apologize. I thought I spotted a mistake in the Three Sundays episode and would like to ask if anyone else saw it too.

Immediately preceding the scene where Vicky the prostitute meets up with Ken, Pete, the client and Roger at the bar, there is a shot of a blackboard advertising lunch specials. This scene is supposed to take place (I believe) right after the first Sunday, which we are told earlier is April 8. I believe the date shown on the blackboard was April 16, which would be incorrect. I think the date on the blackboard should have said April 9 (or some other date between April 9-13). Did anyone else catch this?

My pal and I were discussing the scene where Peggy's sister "confesses" Peggy's having a child. She uses the phrase "out of wedlock". Would they have used that phrase back in the day? Just curious.