Not sure yet ... I've only watched it twice so far. I need to watch it another time and then on the 4th time thru I'll take notes and post my reflections. I think this was one of those "no big actions" episodes that served to lay the ground work for future episodes. We got a lot of information and insight into characters. Interesting to watch the office thru Sally's eyes.
Usually stratospheric standard. However, a small technical note. Playing behind the closing scene was "Wachet auf" (Sleepers awake); a chorale from a well-known Bach cantata. The text is associated with Martin Luther. It is very unlikely that anything Back would be played in a pre-Vatican II Catholic church.
Than you Clayton! Whew, now we can all comment at this thread about anything we want without having to jump through umpteen "topics".
I think Betty's a big prima donna complainer. Don has all the responsibility for supporting the family, with all the stress, hours, and perils that entails. Then you have Betty who's responsibility is to take care of the children. Remember Don said, he doesn't care about meals and cleaning, he wants her to be a wonderful mother to his children. Now all of a sudden 2 little kids is unmanageable to her. What the F? She has a maid and sometimes-babysitter too! My parents had 5 kids. My dad kept spare bed slats in the garage for just those jumping on the bed incidents. Sheesh Betty - lighten up!
The only quibble I had with the episode is I felt they repeated the sequence of 'Bobby does something bad, Betty gets mad and insists Don does something, then Don demurs' too many times -- felt a tad forced. One of the lovely things about this show is that they let things unspool/simmer for several episodes until it boils over. Apart from Betty's wonderfully icy line last week that Bobby 'is a little liar,' this issue felt slightly compressed/forced into one episode. That said, the two payoff moments -- first between Don and Bobby when they talked about his father, then Don opening up to Betty in bed about his childhood abuse -- were pitch perfect and among the best moments so far this season. I also think the writers have wisely decided to have Betty express her unspoken frustration with Don's character flaws by browbeating Bobby. All in all, one of the better episodes. A few other nice touches:
-- Anybody notice what book Betty was reading during the living room scene with the stereo? Short Stories by F. Scott Fitzgerald (I have my grandfather's old paperback copy of Gatsby from the same reissue, which I think was from 1961 or so). Recall in the previous episode that her would-be paramour from the stables asked her if she had read 'A Diamond as Big as the Ritz.' He is obviously still on her mind; deft touch by the writers (it's a great short story, by the way, makes sense for him to like it).
-- The confessional scene was a really interesting choice. In a strange way, Peggy's sister is commiting some sort of sin (envy?) in the act of confession itself! Lovely. Also, the priest was Tom Hanks' kid, and he was a perfect choice.
-- Anyone else think Roger's 'party girl' looked vaguely like his daughter? Was this purposeful to have both characters first appear in the same episode? Seems a bit sick, but Roger seems to play out his inability to communicate with his daughter with his oddly loving relationships with his young chippies.
-- I don't like where this Bobbie Barrett thing is heading. While the tension was thick between Don and Betty, it is heartwarming/ heartbreaking to see him try to open up to her. I hope against hope that they can make something real out of their marriage, but I think the writers may be planning this dalliance as the one where Don gets caught (if he wasn't already between 1960 and 1962). As an aside, the guy who plays Jimmy is great -- he was phenomenal in Mulholland Dr, and I've wondered what happened to him.
-- I like the two bookend moments with Joan -- hearing Don's door lock when Bobbie shows up at his office, then seeing Don's daughter later that week. Is it just me, or does she seem genuinely disappointed to be reminded/realize that Don is no different than the other men in the office?
-- Why does Duck keep acting like he's Don's boss, and not the other way around? I think Draper's going to get the knives out soon.
Betty has more than a touch of "Craig's Wife" which if it gets worse, will drive Don away. ("Craig's Wife" is the ultimate obsessive-compulsive housewife--two movies, 1930s-40s, look up plot line on IMDB.)
The pitch sequence brought back my memories of my ad agency days in the 70s-80s (before and after I went client-side) and also from the client perspective (airline in the 80s, car rental 88-01). The stress, the late nights, the sweats, the bad deli food, the trying to come up with the ultimate unifying idea, and the final part to get your boards right and the presentation deck perfect. (Notice how Peggy and Sal were pulling everything together so that it was just so...) You didn't see the homework part--that Nazi consumer researcher certainly would have been pulled in!--and that was a shortcoming.
They were ready to rock and that idiot Duck took all the air out of the balloon. I do question the plausibility--yes, maybe AA was looking for an internal scapegoat but firing a key marketing exec wasn't their way back then (and I know this from AA veterans of the 60s-70s and working with AA as a partner later on), but I accept the plot dynamics. What Duck COULD have said to the group (and what a group shot in that room!) was: My guy's been fired, who cares, we're the champions, let's show 'em--which shows confidence in the work and the people. Which is why Duck is a Quack. (Also it shows Duck's lack of a backup contact there, which he should have built over the prelims.)
I found it interesting that Father Gill sort of resembles Pete, the baby's father.
Betty is acting like a little girl, she has issues there. When she shoved Don like a girl in the playground, Don shoved her back, like a boy in the playground. Didn't expect that and it cracked me up.
Wonder if Joan has a thing for Don.
All I know is Man Men flies by and I am looking forward to the next segment!
OldFashioned / Donna: Great posts! I found it interesting and infuriating that, like you said, Don's life is involved with making a living, making sure his family is provided for, which is no small thing. Betty, who only has to take care of her children, can't handle it. Sheesh, she has a housekeeper /part-time babysitter, Don said last season that all that was important to him was that she be the best mother to those kids, and now she's becoming angry and critical and frustrated that her life is not her own. I wonder if she'll back off now that Don shoved her / explained his views on abused children.
One last comment re the pitch--Roger Sterling's comment about "the chase" being everything. That is where it is at for him--clients, women, you name it, he can behave as on "shore leave" because it's all situational with him anyway. And Don's trying not to make it obvious that he thinks Sterling's way off the reservation on this because Don HAS loyalty and keeps his word in business. (Aside from the business aspect of giving a good and loyal client their walking papers.)
I look forward to Duck's Quack-up soon.
Must agree with Oldfashioned--I had to look twice at Roger's "party girl" to make sure that wasn't his daughter. Eerie! I would have killed for that cocktail dress! BTW they did make sure that Mrs. Sterling was photographed unflatteringly (Talia Balsam is a good-looking, formidable woman) and portrayed as a BOW re the wedding to give old Roger-Dodger an excuse to hit the sack with another popsie.
I liked the episode but it's obvious Betty takes out her frustration with Don on her son.Calling him a little liar last week is probably something she'd like to say to her husband. This seems somewhat forced
I'm also having a problem with this show on the religious issues. I don't know if even a high powered ad agency in New York would be up and running on Good Friday in the 60's. Also, I find it strange that the Drapers seem to have no religious affiliation. Appearances were everything, and as a little girl, I rarely remeber any family that didn't attend Mass, Sunday school, Church of some sort or Synagogue...even if it was just once or twice a year. Nowadays it's no biggie but back then, it was extremely important to have some sort of religious affiliation.
What exactly happened after Bobbie's coat hit the floor ? In a show where we are told exactly what the creators want us to know, the fact that the scened ended there left open the possibility that nothing happened. This would be ironic because Joan clearly thinks something -did- happen.
The tension between Don and Duck is escalating. Duck says during the planning meeting "and then Don will do what he does" with a tone of condescension. At the AA post mortem Don slides a pitch book to Duck as a souvenier. The look of discust on Don's face is palable, the look of anger on Ducks face is barely restained. Don later says to Sterling that he thought Duck was hired to bring in business instead of turn it away.
Is Bert Cooper's influence being gradually diminshed ? After seeing him act like a doddering fool while the staff are eating, his diminshed stature was reinforced by Duck's comment to the secretary "Tomorrow he wont remember haveing fired you". What will the consequences be for the firm and for Draper ? Duck and increasingly Sterling are aligned against him and his mentor/patron is on the way out. My thought is we are headed for a power showdown.
Duck and Sterling rolled the dice and came up craps. We see that Don was correct, but that Cooper may be on his way out. How will this affect the dynamic of the firm ?
Peggy's sister clearly used her confession as a passive aggressive way to "out" Peggy's illegitimate son to the parish priest. Such behavior was deemed extremely shameful, especially among middle class, working class families in the 1960's. She's jealous of Peggy and since the church apperas to be an important part of her life, she wants to make sure that Peggy doesn't get special attention from the priest. Once the priest gave Peggy an Easter Egg "for the little one", she knew that he had been informed of her behavior.
Hi Clayton,
It never ceases to amaze me. The episodes are so unpredictable! What got me was Don's talk with his son and when his son says, "you need a new daddy". I started crying and still tears fill my eyes. I love that the show is exploring more the home life. Most of us tend to clutter our lives with things in the outer world and fail to confront what really goes on at home. Maybe from fear of what we may really discover and not knowing how to handle it. These characters come from such a truth and I love the way it's portrayed. I'm amazed...
I am constantly reminded that Mad Men's art direction is First Class...
-oldfashioned...I noticed the book, too. So Betty is intrigued by the stable gigolo...
-Pete's shorts (with or without his pale legs) were accurate (hilarious)...
-the socks Sally wore to the office were NOT...
-The glass she prepared her father's Bloody Mary was a perfect match to a set of eight I possess from my childhood. What a memory....
Question:Does anyone recognize the toy Don smashed against the wall?
That Easter egg is highly symbolic (and presented as such) but I think the presentation has a larger purpose. Easter is especially to Catholics a time of rebirth and renewal. Our young priest's knowledge is not meant to damn her (as the senior priest or monsignor, of the Cardinal Spellman School of Militant Catholicism would have done) but to offer Peggy a symbol of forgiveness--go forth and sin no more--and to accept the child. (Note what he says to Peggy's sister in the confessional)
Yes, the agency would have been working on Palm Sunday and presenting on Good Friday for an account that was the size of AA. This group was post-WWII--during WWII factories and businesses operated on all sorts of religious holidays and 7 days a week--and all being NY-ers, not all that observant.
As far as Betty is concerned, I think she is one of those "child women" who never quite grow up. And I think marriage and children is a big disappointment to her, because she may have been led by her mother to believe that beauty is everything, is her key to happiness, and all it's done is get her a house and a couple of kids! She would be happier as someone's mistress, where she could be adored and showered with gifts and attention. Her problem with her children is not that she's overwhelmed, but that she just is not into being a mother at all. She thrives on Don's attention, and resents it when the children come between them (justifiably so--they need attention too!). So, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, AND how her daughter develops as well!
rl1856...
What Bobbie did after she threw down her coat did not make sense until I read on another poster make note of all the 'kneeling down' occuring in this episode. I admit to twisting my mouth and thinking, Why are you surprised? Don is no different in what he succumbs to....
The first time we see SC this season showed someone putting a lock on Don's office door. I could not figure out why that had been done until Bobbie walked over and locked it in this episode.
I didn't get the coat on the floor either! I guess I'm dumb - thanks to whoever for clearing that up (wasn't a question I had 'cause it went right past me).
Great episode! I loved the relationships and the interaction between the characters. Roger and Don have a great chemistry together, they make me howl. However, there were two issues that really bugged me. Issue one, what is wrong with Mr. C? I really grew to love that character... strange but really brilliant underneath it all. Now, is he supposed to be some raving lunatic? Second, I was drolling to see the pitch! I guess the intense letdown that the characters felt was passed onto the views.
Overall, what a great job. I can't wait to see the next episode. Thanks Mad Men... and Women.
I loved Sally's innocent comment to Joan: "You have big ones...my mommy has big ones, too, and I'm going to have them when I grow up." And Joan just looked at her! I also loved the Don/Bobby scenes. I cried, too, Nora! That little boy is a good actor and he just tears your heart out. Standing there with that little scab on his chin from the griddle burn. Made me just want to hug him and hold him. I also like that the show is showing the not so good times of life. That is life, after all: a mix. And the reality that siblings jockey for status in their parents' eyes. I'm sure little Bobby feels like Sally is "the perfect one"and he can do nothing right. Betty sure is quick to pounce, isn't she?
Melle: Wow - "Betty would have liked being a mistress". Nothing to admit in those days, but I think you're right. She sees herself as an object of admiration and affection needing pampering and praise at all times, and pouts if she doesn't get it. Probably why she cried in the car last week. She wanted Don to say "Betts, you were wonderful tonight. You saved the day for SC and Utz -- hooray.!"
Hey, what's up with Don's tool working again (to Betty's great relief and satisfaction)? Did he say he had a wild dream or something? I'm sure it wasn't about Betty but any port in a storm? Men? What do you say?
scfan,
Yes, Betty is quick to pounce. We are seeing the spoiled Betty now that she "thinks" or wants to think she's the apple of Don's eye. She becomes the typical "nag,nag" housewife that men love to run away from. But, the way Don handles the situation comes from a deep rooted truth and sets her straight as he tells her his hatred feelings against his Dad and of course, by pushing her and not taking any nonsense. We never know what goes on behind closed doors. This is simply a comment and not judging, but Don's violence is emerging more and more and now we know why. I just loved that scene with father and son. One of the most touching so far. I'm glad you thought it too.
Yes, I understand the "kneeling" symbolism. But in dealing with previous sexual activities of Don and other characters, we were left with no doubt as to what had happened. There is implied activity, then confirmation.
Case in point- Vicky- she is introduced to the client, she lies about being his wife, scene ends. Is she there for companionship or to provide a service ? Later we have no doubt that Vicky is a call girl when Sterling comments on having seen the bill.
When Don and Bobbie were in the car, action is strongly implied, then confirmed when Don comes home and makes a point of washing his hands and mouth. Later when Don gets his point accross to Bobbie we are left with no doubt as to what he did.
Peggy and Pete's 2nd tryst....the janitor's seeing them behind frosted glass is our confirmation.
In the scene wtih Bobby last night, we are left with the implication that something happened. But what did happen ?- no confirmation. I am sure that showing Joan hearing the lock on the door was done for a reason. The ultimate irony here would be if Joan's suspicion of what she thought happened were to impact her dealings with Don.
When the writers want us to know something they make sure the point is delivered with the sublety of a sledge hammer. When they don't want us to know, we are left with an open ended scene. Based upon what we learned about Don's background last year, viewers strongly suspected that the abuse he experienced as a child has influenced how he treats his own children. The endling of last night's episode left no doubt this assumption is correct. The writers made sure that in the end we got the point.
It's funny as hell that Don's ding-a-ling only works for Self-Absorbed Bitch when he's cheating on her! There's something about her he finds very undesirable! If only she had a brain....
Betty thought the little burn on Bobby's face was serious enough for the Emergency room???? Hasnt Betty ever heard of salve? What did she think they would do at the emergency room? Don should have looked at Bobby and told her to stop over reacting and to put some salve on it.
If any medical intervention is needed...They might want to get some help for Sallys impending alcoholism.
@rl856 & others, It took me twice to see this episode to figure out way Bobbie dropped her coat at Don's feet. He said before she did that he had work to do and she said Bull Sh-t! She drops the coat. The coat is for her knees, so she can convince Don in a sexual act way that he can make this T-V show that she has dreamt up to fly. Not sure way Don gives in to her. She likes to be said no to and then she comes up with something that will convince him to do it for her. She did say when she dropped the coa t" I'd like to think that I'm not getting bored with you" ( something like that)
Lost track of who said it in this thread, but Yes, the priest does look like Pete to me. He said he was visting. Could that be because he was there to see his mother( Pete's too) for their father's passing recently? There's something about the priest. MMfans keep a close eye on him. He is not who he says he is. He smokes & drinks in public is that not uncommon? On to #5
Sally Draper, interesting to watch the characters through her eyes. She is growing up with virtually no childhood, longing for what the adults have. I predict she will be the overly-responsible older sister looking after Bobby while mom and dad go about their self-absorbed lives.
I felt the gesture from the priest at the end of the episode communicated forgiveness and new life with the egg symbolism. Let's see if the relationship between he and Peggy develops!
In the living room (where they live) Perry Como was singing 'in a blue room , meant for two room" or similar lyric. The room was blue. Betty liked the song and the words, there were two too many in her life. What does Betty want from life? Is her goal to keep Don from cheating? Is she living in the bygone age she is reading about in her book? Does she have a fantasy going on in her head that is interrupted by children wanting dinner? Bobby is guilty of all those things Betty tells on him about, but I haven't seen him do anything that wouldn't be part of an ordinary day for most moms. Are the writers asking the question, 'after the perfect wedding day, then what?" as family's are featured in the Three Sundays? This episode is growing on me as I pick it apart bit by bit...but I was let down when I first say it.
I liked this episode, if only because it seemed in the very last scene that Betty was thinking of Don and what he has gone through, and actually made an attempt to comfort him. Otherwise, I think she is a complete narcissist.
Every single complaint or whine from Betty is: ME, ME, ME! Does she EVER think, empathize or have compassion for her husband, her kids, her father?
I seriously doubt it, though she shows great sympathy and compassion for herself.
This was a great episode where Don is starting to open up to his wife, through his own paternity. Also Betty is stronger.
Brilliant the priest turned out. Brilliant episode to me.
cheers!
Question for all your MadManiacs who worked in the ad world circa 1960-70s NYC. My friend who works in advertising said that "Whenever they talk about the project they're working on it makes absolutely no sense and Don's a horrible creative director and the account team sucks too in the real world." What say you? Do you guys think it's pretty true to life - the conversations, comments, about the pitches?
That's come up a few times - it never occurred to me, but that would be quite a surprise.
It might explain Peggy's absolute deadpan, unfeeling reaction to that toddler every time she sees him. It doesn't make sense - how she behaves, unless it's denial again. Could be.
I may be in the minority, but I believe that the writers are portraying Don as having matured and trying a lot harder to be a good husband and father. Betty has graduated from child to spoiled, lazy teenager/passive-aggressive wife--the latter on a good day.
Imagine you are Don and you come home after a world-class BAD business day. Your wife looks at you like something the cat dragged in. You aren't allowed to decompress, wash up, get served a drink, get out of your suit. You're made to feel lucky to eat overcooked spaghetti for dinner and half a glass of your wife's wine sort of shoved at you. Then she yells at you to be the disciplinarian of your son. Hey, Betty knew it was the pitch for AA day--she could have had adult food fixed for Don, gotten the kids fed and out of the way, and had a quiet dinner with him. This is the way my mom did it with my dad. (BTW anyone notice that Betty is no cook?) It's clear where Betty is going.
I'm getting that the Bobbie deal is only business and about power. He's having no fun here. Bobbie is a BOW but I gotta tell you I relish her ringmaster style, although at times it feels too modern. She could give Joan a few lessons!
Laurie B.: My experience is later (80s) but I've long accepted that Mad Men is not going to be all that true on the reality of client relationships, presentations and pitches. How do you dramatize an art director (Sal) and a writer (Peggy) staring at briefing plans, then at blank pieces of paper (or cocktail napkins) and trying to make ideas come out? (And that did happen). The account guys are pretty accurate for the period because they were there to keep the client happy--and clients were simpler-- by and large didn't have agency experience or MBAs as they do now. In my time coming up through account management they were the "old schoolers". My cohort was a lot more involved in the end product and we were the ones pulling all the pieces together, not the creatives.
Certainly in my time the media guys were key to every presentation--Duck asking why the head of the TV department was at the pitch was off base even for the time. And as I mentioned before--where were the research guys? This is post-Marion Harper (McCann-Erickson/Interpublic) and research was hot.
Don as a CD--yeah, I worked with a few oracular types like Ed McCabe and very soft spoken ones like Allan Beaver and Sam Scali. And the Draper's one of them. Bill Bernbach was famous for his blue pencil on the desk--if he didn't touch it you were doing pretty well, but every comment was dead serious.
Peggy continues to me to be an extraordinarily interesting character. She is the female Don Draper that cannot quite extricate herself from her modest beginnings. The jealous sibling who "confesses" Peggy's secret to the priest is an interesting contrast to Don Draper's brother who craved affection and recognition.
The conversation between DD and his forlorn son who is at some stage when he is wrestling with right and wrong -- something Sterling never worries himself about -- are quite touching. it is as if DD is speaking with himself in a dream sequence.
Sterling's loveless marriage was on display here as the emptiness of the marriage ritual -- the wedding dress for the daughter -- is described by his wife with a real bloodlessness.
Draper pushes his wife (only after she pushes him first) which reminds us of the tensions first season when she flirted with sterling and told DD, "C'mon don't you want to bounce me against the walls." Later he confesses to his own childhood abuse, which warmes her to his struggle. http://ronmwangaguhunga.blogspot.com
The priest- I think will definitely leave the church. He's not in the mold - plays guitar and soccer - smokes and drinks as if he is quite worldly- and would a priest give a ride to a single woman? Wouldn't that look odd? I mean for that era?
When Peggy told him that the best way to give a presentation is to be prepared and have confidence in what you are selling, he only replied that he was prepared - the part about having confidence in the "product" was screamingly absent. He seemed uncomfortable at all the fawning at the luncheon and also annoyed when his grace was not accepted as a standard prayer. Why is he "visiting"?
Peggy's sister annoys the crap out of me! Self-righteous, jealous and punishing, she used the confessional to out Peggy so the priest would not like Peggy better. She has major sibling issues.
Now, I did not "get" the scene where Don, Betty and kids all pile onto the bed- what were they doing? Why didn't Betty make dinner? Was she in the bag from those giant drinks Sally mixed?
Whoa where do i start!!!! Roger's party girl I had to do a double take at frist I thought it was his daughter to saY THE WEDDING IS INTO WEEKS. i lIKE THE sundays pitches. And yes the priest do look like Peter, and Peggy's sister is envry of her telling the priest all that good/bad stuff about her. When Don pick up Sally did he not smell the liquor on her breath!!!!! Or was he so full of hisself that he don't knows. Joan did. Oh by the way Peggy put the lock on Don's door. I love this show.
I think Betty and Don were concentrating on each other for the day.
It's not true that priests didn't drink and smoke - my uncle did - and he and friends used to go out to Irish bars and sing. He was a great guy. He also had fellow priests in a singing group with guitars - late 50s early 60s; we had their album, with Vaughan Meader imitating the Kennedys and I think Alan Sherman records came from the same era, maybe a little later.
Don should take his kids out to a play or something, or running in the park - where's the dog? - they don't seem to do things together. is this something Matt needs to think about? Matt did your family ever play or go for rides in the country? Don's not a golfer, so no country club with pool for kids and tennis courts - no boats, no yacht club with activities for kids - no story hour at the library - no parents reading to kids - no bathtub fun scenes -
Betty was reading "Babylon Revisited" by F. Scott Fitzgerald. There's the Babylon theme again, from Season 1. Also, clearly, Larry the Stable Guy is in her head. Betty is one frustrated lady, and that whole weekend with Don and the cocktails had a whiff of Days of Wine and Roses about it - which just so happened to come out in 1962. Hmmm.
It also occurred to me that Ken's job appears to be primarily pimping for the clients. I'm not sure what else he actually does.
What did Joan mean about Sally earning more than anyone that Sunday?
Typical Joan comment--she can't accept Peggy's a writer and not a secretary anymore, which puts her over Joan in the pecking order. All too familiar sniping of anyone who's been promoted from the starter or lower level positions to management. Peggy's ultimate solution will be to go to another agency where no one will remember her as Peggy the secretary.
If you were Catholic in New York in the early 1960s, the portrayls given to mass, confession, relationships with the clergy, Peggy's family, etc. are all too real. This is the same for the amazing accuracy the writers give to every aspect of the culture at that time.
With respect to the Drapers apparent lack of religious affiliation, as well as the ad agency's business on Good Friday, we are observing the dominant Protestant culture that existed then--some WASPs were but many were not religious. .
I think Joan was actually referring to Peggy in that scene (while looking at Sally sleeping on the couch).
I also noticed Betty reading F. Scott Fitzgerald. I'm sure Arthur will be back. At least he's got her reading a book.
The priest has a thing for Peggy alright. Did his ears "prick up" when the sister told him "she seduced a married man?" I think he's Peggy's next boyfriend.
By the way, and this is WAY OUT THERE, but is it possible that the married man Peggy supposedly "seduced" was the sister's loser-husband? Is that maybe why Anita hates her so much? I don't know . . . when will Pete's paternity be revealed?
I found this episode very intriguing--but like many who have posted here I wish we could have seen the pitch to the AM Airlines people!
What I found interesting was that Shel had been fired and Duck announces it before the AA people come into the room.
I think we are meant to infer that Don's intuitive distrust when Duck first suggested that a friend on the inside was "exploring" the possibility of AA switching agencies was accurate.
In other words, Shel and Duck had collaborated/colluded on this idea for their own advancement--in Duck'sd case, he was eager to show SC that they had done the right thing in hiring him because right away he was able to bring in a big account--from Shel's perspective, holding out the promise of a new account might help him leverage
a new position for himself in the debacle following the crash. Heads had to roll at AA, and he probably planned on being the one to bring a fresh idea so that they could move forward.
But something about his eagerness did not sit well with the people at AA--the same as it did not ring true to Don-- moreover, as Roger pointed out in that episode, the there was already a bit of a buzz in the newspapers that SC was being considered by AA.
This kind of gossip, premature and inappropriate-- as one of the posters pointed out it was hghly unlikely that AA would choose such a small agency--placed AA in an unfavorable light.
It was Shel who got them into this position--before they had a chance to "mourn" their loss, they were shown as scrambling to re-fashion their image Favouring style over substance.
Undoubtedly, it was Duck who leaked the news that SC was in the running, but at AA it was Shel who had to be fired.
This week's episode showed Don's grasp of the realities of market--not only in the AA pitch, but also in the way he advised Bobbie about the realities of sponsorship for a TV show.
His suggestions were ingenious but they were firmly nbased in the realities of TV sponsorship and SC's relative lack of clout in those markets.
By the way, Bobbie's title for the TV show Grin and Barrett seems to connect her storyline to that of Peggy not to mention Betty and her problems managing kids!
DonnaC,
I agree completely than Don appears to have matured, or is trying. Don has no frame of reference for fatherhood or marriage. And I agree that Bobbie is a 'business' matter; she offers nothing to him like the carefree ethos of Midge or the sympathetic ear/similar background of Rachel, etc.
Ballrow: thanks for noting that it was Babylon Revisited. I couldn't read the title, but could see Fitzgerald's name. Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose. But the Babylon episode was one of my favorites. Nice reference to Days of Wine and Roses. Anyone else reminded of Revolutionary Road, by Richard Yates?
I'm new to this site (but not the show) so forgive me if I'm going over old territory: What was with Peggy carting around the vacuum cleaner between office and mom's house in episode 2 of this season (if I recall)?
Another great episode.
Watched twice last night.
Bobbie tossing her coat on the floor in front of Don..got it the second time I watched. Bobbie says she doesnt want him to get bored or something along those lines.
The kids were sent to brush their teeth and go to bed early at least twice in this episode. Poor little Bobby can't catch a break from his mother. She referred to him as a little liar last week. This week she just has it out for the poor kid.
Mr.Cooper seems to be losing it. Last week his character was shown eating with his hand shaking.
Hope the actor, Robert Morse, is ok. Maybe just appearing as a special guest star.
Anita, Peggy's sister is obvioulsy quite jealous of her. Their mother constantly refers to Peggy as being pretty. Father Gill asks her to give his folded paper with his sermon to Peggy. She tells their mother she is too easy on Peggy and seems to condone everything Peggys does. To get even Anita outs Pegg's illegitimate child to Father Gill.
After father Finn says his own version of grace, it cracked me up when Peggy's mom said , "and now are you going to say grace"?There is always the obligatory,"Bless us oh Lord". Cut to the Drapers. As Bing Crosby is playing in the background Polly is pouring the perfect Bloody Mary for her dad. You guys are right she's pretending to be a little grown up and doesn't know how, as witnessed in the office. The lack of reaction from Don when the booze glass falls from her hand is weird. She was passed out. Joan caught it.Vicky at the restaurant was a scream when she said "We were talking about the male head ". Double entendre ? I have mixed feelings about Betty. I totally get that she is acting like a spoiled child. She want's Don to handle every little thing. She ambushes him the minute he walks through the door. She's way too hard on those kids. However, Being on the flip side I get how frustrated she might be feeling. She did go to an Ivy League school after all. That was mentioned last season at Polly's birthday party. Can't remember where she went. She probably is feeling frustrated and unfullfilled. She probably wait's for the minute Don walks through that door just to talk to someone other than little kids all day. She does have her friends but it's not the same as having your own life. I hate her every time she throws one of her little fits, but there are other times I understand where she's coming from.In the confessional when Peg's sis confesses to taking something that wasn't hers, could it be Peg's baby? She said something about coins but I wonder if she now regrets, and resents having to do that for her. Someone asked about the toy Don throws .Was lost in Space on yet? Could that have been Robbie the Robot? When Don is talking to his son after that he recalls in vivid detail about the candy that tasted like violets, wrapped in a silver wrapper. I don't know why that got to me along with the rest of the conversation.Don telling Betsy that he wasn't half as good as Bobby shows he's kind of took his fathers beatings as if they were his fault.
The candy Don is referring to is Choward's. It comes in a purple wrapper and tastes like violets. They still sell it -- it's been around for over 100 years.
I love that Don is starting to reveal more of his background to Betty. I really hope this will bring them closer together. They still show signs of love for each other.
Betty went to Bryn Mawr, one of the "Seven Sisters" women's colleges.
Last nights episode was the best one this season.
I loved it when Betty pushed Don and even when Don pushed her back. Betty let Don know that the only reason that he's so easy with the kids is because he doesn't have to spend all day with them. Betty is finally speaking up for herself. Since Don seems to like strong independent women I think this change in Betty will make Don more interested in her. At least they are finally begining to open up to each other. In next weeks preview they showed Don making another confession to Betty.
Hi Ballrow--I thought the same thing about Ken. He seems to be awfully chummy with Roger, and based on his behavior in past episodes is definitely not shy about putting the make on women. Makes me wonder if his "services" on behalf of Roger might be the reason that his paycheck in last week's episode was so much higher than Harry's.
I have to say; I thought I was a huge fan of this show but after reading these blogs I'm in doubt!!! Just wanted to say a big thanks to all of you for your wonderful insight into each and every episode; some I never even thought about or caught during the show!! It's MADdening I tell ya!! How much fun would that be to re-create the era down to the last last detail?!
Can't wait for the next one...!!!
Best episode so far this season.
I was intrigued by the whole preparation for the AA meeting especially when they came in to the office on Palm Sunday. Pete was in his country club shorts and Don brought Sally into work. Overall, Duck blew it. The firm broke ties with Mowhawk Airlines to go after AA. This event will probably haunt him and lead to more problems down the road.
I also like the children involvement in the show. I can understand why Don doesn't want to discipline his children after the way his father treated him.
Peggy, the priest (Collin Hanks, Tom Hanks son) and her sister storyline was interesting. I see a sibling rivalry between the two sisters. Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode.
Although the way Peggy's sister outed her to the priest was passive aggressive at best and vindictive at worst, she has some valid points. Peggy is out leading a very glamourous life for a woman of that time and seems to be completely cold to the child and not in the slightest bit grateful for her sister's help. It's unnatural that she cares so little for her own child -- and he's already going to have a tough life without a father. I'm disappointed in Peggy for acting that way. If I were her sister, I'd be inclined to be angry at her, too.
Love this show! It's one of the only smart programs on TV and the writing is amazing. I want to work for Mad Men!
"Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode."
k: I have an odd notion that Peggy's "sister" is not really her sister, but her mother and that history has repeated itself. That is, the "sister" got pregnant young, had a baby and their "mother," raised them as sisters. There is a pretty big age difference between the two women. Just a thought.
madfan: Given Peggy's denial of the baby from the start (first the pregnancy and then rejecting the infant in the hospital at the end of season one), it's no surprise that she rejects the child now. I see it as a coping mechanism.
I was watching "Three Sundays" again On Demand to see what I missed when my husband switched to the Oympics. I happen to catch Peggy's mother or sister calling for Gerard and Mikey to come to the table when the priest visited the 1st time. Just wondering if this is a nod to any MCR fans who watch Mad Men.
Uncle, I did mix up Polly and Sally, how funny. I rewatched the end with Bobby, You and I are both right , he said purple and silver package. As for Perry Como vs. Bing Crosby I wouldn't know from experience, but I watch this with closed captions so I don't miss anything, and on cc it said Bing Crosby. I haven't the true knowledge only what cc said.
Joan's conversation while standing over Sally is only the beginning of payback for Peggy turning a blind eye to the culprit who posted her license on the bulletin board. Keep watching....that battle is far from over....
Gail Klein and scfan,
Our resident Mad Man, wryter1, is celebrating his birthday today with lots of company. Ask him about it when he gets back to the blogs. He said to say Hi to all the Maddicts!
Is anyone else finding whole discussions gone? I've commented on several different threads and all of a sudden they are all gone. Or I'm just too dumb to find them again? The topics were very anti mad men and very bitter toward other bloggers. Maybe this is a way to keep this sight civil. But what the ? I love the show and love to talk to you all. But I feel like I wasted time even commenting on those other postings. Did they just disappear into thin air?
Never mind I'm an idiot, just couldn't remember where I posted stuff. I must say , though , that was one topic. This new format is so hard to navigate. Hard to remember what you posted where. Much better having started an open thread . THANKS. Let's do it every week .
I wouldn't mind seeing Duck sail out the door; he's borish and doesn't really add to the cast. with Roger back I'm not exactly certain of "The Duck's" role anyway.
It appears as if Don and Pete have reached some kind of unwritten truce, at least professional level, so seems logical Pete would move up to Ducks role..that is, if The Duckster waddles out the door of C-S.
Though I am still a fan of MM (more or less), I do not feel Season Two is as riveting or interesting (or provocative) as Season One. For me, it's turning into a Sunday night soap opera and little else. Season One was far more inventive. I don't care for Bertram Cooper this season (in Season One he was kind of a whimsical character, a bit offbeat, etc. but this Season he seems like a crabby old man). Also, the character of Duck is just so boring and one dimensional. Why didn't they just name him Doug, instead?! Don't care for the insult comic's wife, either; her character is the typical pushy broad and frankly, she is no looker, that's for sure; she looks hard and cheap which she is. I much preferred when Season One focused on a smaller group of mor interesting characters that I thought would be developed more in Season Two: Joan, Pete, Harry, Ken, Midge (where did she go?), Rachel (Ditto?), etc. Also, Roger Sterling is nothing more than a rake, and a not very interesting one at that. And what happened to the FASCINATING story line of Draper/Whitman? I am sure someone will answer my post with the old line "Wait, it's early in the season and they are going to get to all of that." I don't think so. It's not that earl in the season any longer, either. We are heading to Episode 5 of what, 12 or 13? One more after next week and we're halfway through Season Two. These are just my opinions (please don't come unglued like the poster last night who all but had a conniption that I mentioned Colin Hanks playing the priest. Apparently, they found that comment too much to bear, why I don't know). Anyway, these are my own opinions and views on this season of Mad Men.
To Laurie B: I don't think Betty is a complainer. I think she is a highly educated and intelligent woman with a Bryn Mawr education who is stuck at home raising 2 kids and putting up with a husband whom she knows is cheating on her. She has also found over the years that Don's supposed strength which probably attracted her, is in some part detachment. It makes her mad - which it should.
That was a common scenario in the 50s and 60s, - women giving up careers or hope of a career to stay home and raise kids. Many of them were frustrated.
I love this show. My favorite scene in this episode was Bobby and Don - Bobby's "we need to get you a new Daddy line," was so poignant it took my breath away. That scene was so natural and unaffected, it's hard to believe that a small child could act that well.
Also loved Sally in this episode. Anyone notice how she started to clean up the mess her brother made when he spelled her drink? She took in all that happened between her parents, then grabbed napkins and started to clean up - never yelled at her brother - what a great sister! Loved Sally at the office, too - she was taking in all that the guys had to say about her father and I would be very surprised if she doesn't share some of that with Don.
There was so much in this episode to think about and so much revealed about all the characters. What a great cast! I hope they sweep the Emmys.
BTW, whoever said that Bach would not have been played in pre Vatican II Catholic churches is wrong. I was raised Catholic, sang in the choir for years and yes, we did play and sing Bach.
Flowerpower,
I think you're wrong about the priest. He is young, just back from Rome. Only the cream of the crop get sent to Rome to study - you have to be terribly smart and terribly serious about your vocation as a priest to make the cut.
He believes in his vocation and is acting as a priest should. His comments to Peggy's sister in the confessional were superb and giving the egg to Peggy was his way of letting her know that she should accept the child and the responsibility for him. Shouldering responsibility was a big theme of the old Catholic church - it was the way one redeemed one's self for misdeeds. Plus, the child needs his mother, not a bitter resentful aunt.
Catholic priests used to visit their parishioners all the time - they would drop in to say hello. And especially on the weekend when the housekeeper/cook was probably not working, people would invite the priest over for a meal and some socializing. We had 3 priests in my parish when I was a kid and it wasn't unusual for all 3 of them to be at different homes for dinner. Also, he's new to the parish, so he'd be doing even more visiting because he was getting to know everyone.
Chopin47,
I really think there's a "Thorn Birds" theme with the priest. There's a bit of sarcasm in his voice as he describes having been to Rome. His first prayer ahd to be repeated to sound spiritual. I really think he's missing something and looking for it in Betty.
I think that beautiful Betty is a total, self-centered neurotic. She barely tolerates her daughter and almost hates her little son. When she said she stayed home all day and was "outnumbered", I laughed out loud.
I admire Don's restraint at work, for he surely had several times after the AA firing and presentation to tell both Roger, Duck and even Mr. Cooper (perhaps more diplomatically), "I TOLD YOU SO!" It was horrible for them to throw Mohawk under the bus; make Don tell the client, and take such a huge chance in order to make their presentation to AA. And then lose out!
I must say, Don has a genius for the right touch. The Carousel, with its tip of the hat to nostalgia, and the new direction for AA, moving on with no apologies and shooting for the moon. He is truly "da guy!"
I haven't been hooked on a show like this since "Knots Landing", when I never missed an episode for 14 years. A few of the tie-in features remind me a lot of that quality show.
I do a real countdown for Sunday evenings and then hop right into the Talk Forum. What fun!
Was anyone turned on by Pete in his tennis outfit?
I think Pete isn't going to win the Mr. Muscles-Charles Atlas contest if he waltzes into the office in another "sporting" outfit again anytime soon. lol
Most of my comments have already been covered. I did want to verify that priests at that time did drink, did smoke, and were frequently hosted for dinner in parishioners homes. They also (in my recollection) flirted a lot. Back in the 50s when this priest would have entered the seminary, families took great pride in having a son in the priesthood and pressured them to do so. As a result a lot of men did so rather reluctantly and went on to leave the priesthood down the road. I'm kind of hoping against a Thorn Birds redux, though, as I just find it fairly predictable. I think it would be more interesting if the priest instead helps Peggy find her way back to her son. I LOVE the poster's observation that maybe Peggy's sister is really her mother. That'd be a kicker.
In terms of music, I'm fairly certain that was Bing Crosby and I agree with Amicahomi that the ending music bugged me. As a Catholic from the MM era, that would not have been playing at the end of Easter Mass. No doubt Bach was played at church but the choice was wrong and I reacted to it immediately. On such a day, Ode to Joy would make sense but that would have not had the right tone for the dialog.
anyone notice Betty is wearing slacks (pants trousers) this season no more june cleaver dresses and pearls
and rl1856 I think this has been covered but when bobbie puts her coat on the floor it is to cushion her knees so she can use oral sex to get her tv show
and the priest ... to me he looks disillusioned about the priesthood
I wonder if Father Gil (?) when he tells Peggy's sister : "You are stronger than your sister" - Maybe he knows more of the story from other confessions - parts of the story we don't know. I wonder whose decision it was to keep that baby and if they all think it's the bad back husband's!
i think the medical stuff needs to be tightened up:
parents then would not have taken a child to "the emergency room" for a minor burn.
if they felt they needed help, they would have called their own doctor, who would most likely have seen the child in his office the next day.
Not sure yet ... I've only watched it twice so far. I need to watch it another time and then on the 4th time thru I'll take notes and post my reflections. I think this was one of those "no big actions" episodes that served to lay the ground work for future episodes. We got a lot of information and insight into characters. Interesting to watch the office thru Sally's eyes.
Usually stratospheric standard. However, a small technical note. Playing behind the closing scene was "Wachet auf" (Sleepers awake); a chorale from a well-known Bach cantata. The text is associated with Martin Luther. It is very unlikely that anything Back would be played in a pre-Vatican II Catholic church.
Than you Clayton! Whew, now we can all comment at this thread about anything we want without having to jump through umpteen "topics".
I think Betty's a big prima donna complainer. Don has all the responsibility for supporting the family, with all the stress, hours, and perils that entails. Then you have Betty who's responsibility is to take care of the children. Remember Don said, he doesn't care about meals and cleaning, he wants her to be a wonderful mother to his children. Now all of a sudden 2 little kids is unmanageable to her. What the F? She has a maid and sometimes-babysitter too! My parents had 5 kids. My dad kept spare bed slats in the garage for just those jumping on the bed incidents. Sheesh Betty - lighten up!
What happened?
They seem to have changed the way it's taped.
It no longer has that intimate feel.
The only quibble I had with the episode is I felt they repeated the sequence of 'Bobby does something bad, Betty gets mad and insists Don does something, then Don demurs' too many times -- felt a tad forced. One of the lovely things about this show is that they let things unspool/simmer for several episodes until it boils over. Apart from Betty's wonderfully icy line last week that Bobby 'is a little liar,' this issue felt slightly compressed/forced into one episode. That said, the two payoff moments -- first between Don and Bobby when they talked about his father, then Don opening up to Betty in bed about his childhood abuse -- were pitch perfect and among the best moments so far this season. I also think the writers have wisely decided to have Betty express her unspoken frustration with Don's character flaws by browbeating Bobby. All in all, one of the better episodes. A few other nice touches:
-- Anybody notice what book Betty was reading during the living room scene with the stereo? Short Stories by F. Scott Fitzgerald (I have my grandfather's old paperback copy of Gatsby from the same reissue, which I think was from 1961 or so). Recall in the previous episode that her would-be paramour from the stables asked her if she had read 'A Diamond as Big as the Ritz.' He is obviously still on her mind; deft touch by the writers (it's a great short story, by the way, makes sense for him to like it).
-- The confessional scene was a really interesting choice. In a strange way, Peggy's sister is commiting some sort of sin (envy?) in the act of confession itself! Lovely. Also, the priest was Tom Hanks' kid, and he was a perfect choice.
-- Anyone else think Roger's 'party girl' looked vaguely like his daughter? Was this purposeful to have both characters first appear in the same episode? Seems a bit sick, but Roger seems to play out his inability to communicate with his daughter with his oddly loving relationships with his young chippies.
-- I don't like where this Bobbie Barrett thing is heading. While the tension was thick between Don and Betty, it is heartwarming/ heartbreaking to see him try to open up to her. I hope against hope that they can make something real out of their marriage, but I think the writers may be planning this dalliance as the one where Don gets caught (if he wasn't already between 1960 and 1962). As an aside, the guy who plays Jimmy is great -- he was phenomenal in Mulholland Dr, and I've wondered what happened to him.
-- I like the two bookend moments with Joan -- hearing Don's door lock when Bobbie shows up at his office, then seeing Don's daughter later that week. Is it just me, or does she seem genuinely disappointed to be reminded/realize that Don is no different than the other men in the office?
-- Why does Duck keep acting like he's Don's boss, and not the other way around? I think Draper's going to get the knives out soon.
Betty has more than a touch of "Craig's Wife" which if it gets worse, will drive Don away. ("Craig's Wife" is the ultimate obsessive-compulsive housewife--two movies, 1930s-40s, look up plot line on IMDB.)
The pitch sequence brought back my memories of my ad agency days in the 70s-80s (before and after I went client-side) and also from the client perspective (airline in the 80s, car rental 88-01). The stress, the late nights, the sweats, the bad deli food, the trying to come up with the ultimate unifying idea, and the final part to get your boards right and the presentation deck perfect. (Notice how Peggy and Sal were pulling everything together so that it was just so...) You didn't see the homework part--that Nazi consumer researcher certainly would have been pulled in!--and that was a shortcoming.
They were ready to rock and that idiot Duck took all the air out of the balloon. I do question the plausibility--yes, maybe AA was looking for an internal scapegoat but firing a key marketing exec wasn't their way back then (and I know this from AA veterans of the 60s-70s and working with AA as a partner later on), but I accept the plot dynamics. What Duck COULD have said to the group (and what a group shot in that room!) was: My guy's been fired, who cares, we're the champions, let's show 'em--which shows confidence in the work and the people. Which is why Duck is a Quack. (Also it shows Duck's lack of a backup contact there, which he should have built over the prelims.)
All in all, this was a strong episode.
I found it interesting that Father Gill sort of resembles Pete, the baby's father.
Betty is acting like a little girl, she has issues there. When she shoved Don like a girl in the playground, Don shoved her back, like a boy in the playground. Didn't expect that and it cracked me up.
Wonder if Joan has a thing for Don.
All I know is Man Men flies by and I am looking forward to the next segment!
OldFashioned / Donna: Great posts! I found it interesting and infuriating that, like you said, Don's life is involved with making a living, making sure his family is provided for, which is no small thing. Betty, who only has to take care of her children, can't handle it. Sheesh, she has a housekeeper /part-time babysitter, Don said last season that all that was important to him was that she be the best mother to those kids, and now she's becoming angry and critical and frustrated that her life is not her own. I wonder if she'll back off now that Don shoved her / explained his views on abused children.
Duck's a Quack -- hilarious. Good one.
One last comment re the pitch--Roger Sterling's comment about "the chase" being everything. That is where it is at for him--clients, women, you name it, he can behave as on "shore leave" because it's all situational with him anyway. And Don's trying not to make it obvious that he thinks Sterling's way off the reservation on this because Don HAS loyalty and keeps his word in business. (Aside from the business aspect of giving a good and loyal client their walking papers.)
I look forward to Duck's Quack-up soon.
Must agree with Oldfashioned--I had to look twice at Roger's "party girl" to make sure that wasn't his daughter. Eerie! I would have killed for that cocktail dress! BTW they did make sure that Mrs. Sterling was photographed unflatteringly (Talia Balsam is a good-looking, formidable woman) and portrayed as a BOW re the wedding to give old Roger-Dodger an excuse to hit the sack with another popsie.
I liked the episode but it's obvious Betty takes out her frustration with Don on her son.Calling him a little liar last week is probably something she'd like to say to her husband. This seems somewhat forced
I'm also having a problem with this show on the religious issues. I don't know if even a high powered ad agency in New York would be up and running on Good Friday in the 60's. Also, I find it strange that the Drapers seem to have no religious affiliation. Appearances were everything, and as a little girl, I rarely remeber any family that didn't attend Mass, Sunday school, Church of some sort or Synagogue...even if it was just once or twice a year. Nowadays it's no biggie but back then, it was extremely important to have some sort of religious affiliation.
Random thoughts:
What exactly happened after Bobbie's coat hit the floor ? In a show where we are told exactly what the creators want us to know, the fact that the scened ended there left open the possibility that nothing happened. This would be ironic because Joan clearly thinks something -did- happen.
The tension between Don and Duck is escalating. Duck says during the planning meeting "and then Don will do what he does" with a tone of condescension. At the AA post mortem Don slides a pitch book to Duck as a souvenier. The look of discust on Don's face is palable, the look of anger on Ducks face is barely restained. Don later says to Sterling that he thought Duck was hired to bring in business instead of turn it away.
Is Bert Cooper's influence being gradually diminshed ? After seeing him act like a doddering fool while the staff are eating, his diminshed stature was reinforced by Duck's comment to the secretary "Tomorrow he wont remember haveing fired you". What will the consequences be for the firm and for Draper ? Duck and increasingly Sterling are aligned against him and his mentor/patron is on the way out. My thought is we are headed for a power showdown.
Duck and Sterling rolled the dice and came up craps. We see that Don was correct, but that Cooper may be on his way out. How will this affect the dynamic of the firm ?
Peggy's sister clearly used her confession as a passive aggressive way to "out" Peggy's illegitimate son to the parish priest. Such behavior was deemed extremely shameful, especially among middle class, working class families in the 1960's. She's jealous of Peggy and since the church apperas to be an important part of her life, she wants to make sure that Peggy doesn't get special attention from the priest. Once the priest gave Peggy an Easter Egg "for the little one", she knew that he had been informed of her behavior.
Hi Clayton,
It never ceases to amaze me. The episodes are so unpredictable! What got me was Don's talk with his son and when his son says, "you need a new daddy". I started crying and still tears fill my eyes. I love that the show is exploring more the home life. Most of us tend to clutter our lives with things in the outer world and fail to confront what really goes on at home. Maybe from fear of what we may really discover and not knowing how to handle it. These characters come from such a truth and I love the way it's portrayed. I'm amazed...
I am constantly reminded that Mad Men's art direction is First Class...
-oldfashioned...I noticed the book, too. So Betty is intrigued by the stable gigolo...
-Pete's shorts (with or without his pale legs) were accurate (hilarious)...
-the socks Sally wore to the office were NOT...
-The glass she prepared her father's Bloody Mary was a perfect match to a set of eight I possess from my childhood. What a memory....
Question: Does anyone recognize the toy Don smashed against the wall?
Love this show...
That Easter egg is highly symbolic (and presented as such) but I think the presentation has a larger purpose. Easter is especially to Catholics a time of rebirth and renewal. Our young priest's knowledge is not meant to damn her (as the senior priest or monsignor, of the Cardinal Spellman School of Militant Catholicism would have done) but to offer Peggy a symbol of forgiveness--go forth and sin no more--and to accept the child. (Note what he says to Peggy's sister in the confessional)
Yes, the agency would have been working on Palm Sunday and presenting on Good Friday for an account that was the size of AA. This group was post-WWII--during WWII factories and businesses operated on all sorts of religious holidays and 7 days a week--and all being NY-ers, not all that observant.
As far as Betty is concerned, I think she is one of those "child women" who never quite grow up. And I think marriage and children is a big disappointment to her, because she may have been led by her mother to believe that beauty is everything, is her key to happiness, and all it's done is get her a house and a couple of kids! She would be happier as someone's mistress, where she could be adored and showered with gifts and attention. Her problem with her children is not that she's overwhelmed, but that she just is not into being a mother at all. She thrives on Don's attention, and resents it when the children come between them (justifiably so--they need attention too!). So, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, AND how her daughter develops as well!
rl1856...
What Bobbie did after she threw down her coat did not make sense until I read on another poster make note of all the 'kneeling down' occuring in this episode. I admit to twisting my mouth and thinking, Why are you surprised? Don is no different in what he succumbs to....
The first time we see SC this season showed someone putting a lock on Don's office door. I could not figure out why that had been done until Bobbie walked over and locked it in this episode.
I didn't get the coat on the floor either! I guess I'm dumb - thanks to whoever for clearing that up (wasn't a question I had 'cause it went right past me).
Great episode! I loved the relationships and the interaction between the characters. Roger and Don have a great chemistry together, they make me howl. However, there were two issues that really bugged me. Issue one, what is wrong with Mr. C? I really grew to love that character... strange but really brilliant underneath it all. Now, is he supposed to be some raving lunatic? Second, I was drolling to see the pitch! I guess the intense letdown that the characters felt was passed onto the views.
Overall, what a great job. I can't wait to see the next episode. Thanks Mad Men... and Women.
I loved Sally's innocent comment to Joan: "You have big ones...my mommy has big ones, too, and I'm going to have them when I grow up." And Joan just looked at her! I also loved the Don/Bobby scenes. I cried, too, Nora! That little boy is a good actor and he just tears your heart out. Standing there with that little scab on his chin from the griddle burn. Made me just want to hug him and hold him. I also like that the show is showing the not so good times of life. That is life, after all: a mix. And the reality that siblings jockey for status in their parents' eyes. I'm sure little Bobby feels like Sally is "the perfect one"and he can do nothing right. Betty sure is quick to pounce, isn't she?
Melle: Wow - "Betty would have liked being a mistress". Nothing to admit in those days, but I think you're right. She sees herself as an object of admiration and affection needing pampering and praise at all times, and pouts if she doesn't get it. Probably why she cried in the car last week. She wanted Don to say "Betts, you were wonderful tonight. You saved the day for SC and Utz -- hooray.!"
Hey, what's up with Don's tool working again (to Betty's great relief and satisfaction)? Did he say he had a wild dream or something? I'm sure it wasn't about Betty but any port in a storm? Men? What do you say?
scfan,
Yes, Betty is quick to pounce. We are seeing the spoiled Betty now that she "thinks" or wants to think she's the apple of Don's eye. She becomes the typical "nag,nag" housewife that men love to run away from. But, the way Don handles the situation comes from a deep rooted truth and sets her straight as he tells her his hatred feelings against his Dad and of course, by pushing her and not taking any nonsense. We never know what goes on behind closed doors. This is simply a comment and not judging, but Don's violence is emerging more and more and now we know why. I just loved that scene with father and son. One of the most touching so far. I'm glad you thought it too.
Yes, I understand the "kneeling" symbolism. But in dealing with previous sexual activities of Don and other characters, we were left with no doubt as to what had happened. There is implied activity, then confirmation.
Case in point- Vicky- she is introduced to the client, she lies about being his wife, scene ends. Is she there for companionship or to provide a service ? Later we have no doubt that Vicky is a call girl when Sterling comments on having seen the bill.
When Don and Bobbie were in the car, action is strongly implied, then confirmed when Don comes home and makes a point of washing his hands and mouth. Later when Don gets his point accross to Bobbie we are left with no doubt as to what he did.
Peggy and Pete's 2nd tryst....the janitor's seeing them behind frosted glass is our confirmation.
In the scene wtih Bobby last night, we are left with the implication that something happened. But what did happen ?- no confirmation. I am sure that showing Joan hearing the lock on the door was done for a reason. The ultimate irony here would be if Joan's suspicion of what she thought happened were to impact her dealings with Don.
When the writers want us to know something they make sure the point is delivered with the sublety of a sledge hammer. When they don't want us to know, we are left with an open ended scene. Based upon what we learned about Don's background last year, viewers strongly suspected that the abuse he experienced as a child has influenced how he treats his own children. The endling of last night's episode left no doubt this assumption is correct. The writers made sure that in the end we got the point.
It's funny as hell that Don's ding-a-ling only works for Self-Absorbed Bitch when he's cheating on her! There's something about her he finds very undesirable! If only she had a brain....
Betty thought the little burn on Bobby's face was serious enough for the Emergency room???? Hasnt Betty ever heard of salve? What did she think they would do at the emergency room? Don should have looked at Bobby and told her to stop over reacting and to put some salve on it.
If any medical intervention is needed...They might want to get some help for Sallys impending alcoholism.
@rl856 & others, It took me twice to see this episode to figure out way Bobbie dropped her coat at Don's feet. He said before she did that he had work to do and she said Bull Sh-t! She drops the coat. The coat is for her knees, so she can convince Don in a sexual act way that he can make this T-V show that she has dreamt up to fly. Not sure way Don gives in to her. She likes to be said no to and then she comes up with something that will convince him to do it for her. She did say when she dropped the coa t" I'd like to think that I'm not getting bored with you" ( something like that)
Lost track of who said it in this thread, but Yes, the priest does look like Pete to me. He said he was visting. Could that be because he was there to see his mother( Pete's too) for their father's passing recently? There's something about the priest. MMfans keep a close eye on him. He is not who he says he is. He smokes & drinks in public is that not uncommon? On to #5
Sally Draper, interesting to watch the characters through her eyes. She is growing up with virtually no childhood, longing for what the adults have. I predict she will be the overly-responsible older sister looking after Bobby while mom and dad go about their self-absorbed lives.
I felt the gesture from the priest at the end of the episode communicated forgiveness and new life with the egg symbolism. Let's see if the relationship between he and Peggy develops!
In the living room (where they live) Perry Como was singing 'in a blue room , meant for two room" or similar lyric. The room was blue. Betty liked the song and the words, there were two too many in her life. What does Betty want from life? Is her goal to keep Don from cheating? Is she living in the bygone age she is reading about in her book? Does she have a fantasy going on in her head that is interrupted by children wanting dinner? Bobby is guilty of all those things Betty tells on him about, but I haven't seen him do anything that wouldn't be part of an ordinary day for most moms. Are the writers asking the question, 'after the perfect wedding day, then what?" as family's are featured in the Three Sundays? This episode is growing on me as I pick it apart bit by bit...but I was let down when I first say it.
I liked this episode, if only because it seemed in the very last scene that Betty was thinking of Don and what he has gone through, and actually made an attempt to comfort him. Otherwise, I think she is a complete narcissist.
Every single complaint or whine from Betty is: ME, ME, ME! Does she EVER think, empathize or have compassion for her husband, her kids, her father?
I seriously doubt it, though she shows great sympathy and compassion for herself.
This was a great episode where Don is starting to open up to his wife, through his own paternity. Also Betty is stronger.
Brilliant the priest turned out. Brilliant episode to me.
cheers!
Who thinks the blonde toddler is not Peggy's child? I don't think her sister is raising her child.
Question for all your MadManiacs who worked in the ad world circa 1960-70s NYC. My friend who works in advertising said that "Whenever they talk about the project they're working on it makes absolutely no sense and Don's a horrible creative director and the account team sucks too in the real world." What say you? Do you guys think it's pretty true to life - the conversations, comments, about the pitches?
That's come up a few times - it never occurred to me, but that would be quite a surprise.
It might explain Peggy's absolute deadpan, unfeeling reaction to that toddler every time she sees him. It doesn't make sense - how she behaves, unless it's denial again. Could be.
I may be in the minority, but I believe that the writers are portraying Don as having matured and trying a lot harder to be a good husband and father. Betty has graduated from child to spoiled, lazy teenager/passive-aggressive wife--the latter on a good day.
Imagine you are Don and you come home after a world-class BAD business day. Your wife looks at you like something the cat dragged in. You aren't allowed to decompress, wash up, get served a drink, get out of your suit. You're made to feel lucky to eat overcooked spaghetti for dinner and half a glass of your wife's wine sort of shoved at you. Then she yells at you to be the disciplinarian of your son. Hey, Betty knew it was the pitch for AA day--she could have had adult food fixed for Don, gotten the kids fed and out of the way, and had a quiet dinner with him. This is the way my mom did it with my dad. (BTW anyone notice that Betty is no cook?) It's clear where Betty is going.
I'm getting that the Bobbie deal is only business and about power. He's having no fun here. Bobbie is a BOW but I gotta tell you I relish her ringmaster style, although at times it feels too modern. She could give Joan a few lessons!
Laurie B.: My experience is later (80s) but I've long accepted that Mad Men is not going to be all that true on the reality of client relationships, presentations and pitches. How do you dramatize an art director (Sal) and a writer (Peggy) staring at briefing plans, then at blank pieces of paper (or cocktail napkins) and trying to make ideas come out? (And that did happen). The account guys are pretty accurate for the period because they were there to keep the client happy--and clients were simpler-- by and large didn't have agency experience or MBAs as they do now. In my time coming up through account management they were the "old schoolers". My cohort was a lot more involved in the end product and we were the ones pulling all the pieces together, not the creatives.
Certainly in my time the media guys were key to every presentation--Duck asking why the head of the TV department was at the pitch was off base even for the time. And as I mentioned before--where were the research guys? This is post-Marion Harper (McCann-Erickson/Interpublic) and research was hot.
Don as a CD--yeah, I worked with a few oracular types like Ed McCabe and very soft spoken ones like Allan Beaver and Sam Scali. And the Draper's one of them. Bill Bernbach was famous for his blue pencil on the desk--if he didn't touch it you were doing pretty well, but every comment was dead serious.
Peggy continues to me to be an extraordinarily interesting character. She is the female Don Draper that cannot quite extricate herself from her modest beginnings. The jealous sibling who "confesses" Peggy's secret to the priest is an interesting contrast to Don Draper's brother who craved affection and recognition.
The conversation between DD and his forlorn son who is at some stage when he is wrestling with right and wrong -- something Sterling never worries himself about -- are quite touching. it is as if DD is speaking with himself in a dream sequence.
Sterling's loveless marriage was on display here as the emptiness of the marriage ritual -- the wedding dress for the daughter -- is described by his wife with a real bloodlessness.
Draper pushes his wife (only after she pushes him first) which reminds us of the tensions first season when she flirted with sterling and told DD, "C'mon don't you want to bounce me against the walls." Later he confesses to his own childhood abuse, which warmes her to his struggle.
http://ronmwangaguhunga.blogspot.com
The priest- I think will definitely leave the church. He's not in the mold - plays guitar and soccer - smokes and drinks as if he is quite worldly- and would a priest give a ride to a single woman? Wouldn't that look odd? I mean for that era?
When Peggy told him that the best way to give a presentation is to be prepared and have confidence in what you are selling, he only replied that he was prepared - the part about having confidence in the "product" was screamingly absent. He seemed uncomfortable at all the fawning at the luncheon and also annoyed when his grace was not accepted as a standard prayer. Why is he "visiting"?
Peggy's sister annoys the crap out of me! Self-righteous, jealous and punishing, she used the confessional to out Peggy so the priest would not like Peggy better. She has major sibling issues.
Now, I did not "get" the scene where Don, Betty and kids all pile onto the bed- what were they doing? Why didn't Betty make dinner? Was she in the bag from those giant drinks Sally mixed?
Whoa where do i start!!!! Roger's party girl I had to do a double take at frist I thought it was his daughter to saY THE WEDDING IS INTO WEEKS. i lIKE THE sundays pitches. And yes the priest do look like Peter, and Peggy's sister is envry of her telling the priest all that good/bad stuff about her. When Don pick up Sally did he not smell the liquor on her breath!!!!! Or was he so full of hisself that he don't knows. Joan did. Oh by the way Peggy put the lock on Don's door. I love this show.
I think Betty and Don were concentrating on each other for the day.
It's not true that priests didn't drink and smoke - my uncle did - and he and friends used to go out to Irish bars and sing. He was a great guy. He also had fellow priests in a singing group with guitars - late 50s early 60s; we had their album, with Vaughan Meader imitating the Kennedys and I think Alan Sherman records came from the same era, maybe a little later.
Don should take his kids out to a play or something, or running in the park - where's the dog? - they don't seem to do things together. is this something Matt needs to think about? Matt did your family ever play or go for rides in the country? Don's not a golfer, so no country club with pool for kids and tennis courts - no boats, no yacht club with activities for kids - no story hour at the library - no parents reading to kids - no bathtub fun scenes -
Peggy's sister needs a little somethign light about her - she's insufferable!
Betty was reading "Babylon Revisited" by F. Scott Fitzgerald. There's the Babylon theme again, from Season 1. Also, clearly, Larry the Stable Guy is in her head. Betty is one frustrated lady, and that whole weekend with Don and the cocktails had a whiff of Days of Wine and Roses about it - which just so happened to come out in 1962. Hmmm.
It also occurred to me that Ken's job appears to be primarily pimping for the clients. I'm not sure what else he actually does.
What did Joan mean about Sally earning more than anyone that Sunday?
Not Sally- but PEGGY.
Joan said something to the effect, "I respect her for being here and working, but she does make more than any of us:.
Typical Joan comment--she can't accept Peggy's a writer and not a secretary anymore, which puts her over Joan in the pecking order. All too familiar sniping of anyone who's been promoted from the starter or lower level positions to management. Peggy's ultimate solution will be to go to another agency where no one will remember her as Peggy the secretary.
If you were Catholic in New York in the early 1960s, the portrayls given to mass, confession, relationships with the clergy, Peggy's family, etc. are all too real. This is the same for the amazing accuracy the writers give to every aspect of the culture at that time.
With respect to the Drapers apparent lack of religious affiliation, as well as the ad agency's business on Good Friday, we are observing the dominant Protestant culture that existed then--some WASPs were but many were not religious. .
Ballrow:
I think Joan was actually referring to Peggy in that scene (while looking at Sally sleeping on the couch).
I also noticed Betty reading F. Scott Fitzgerald. I'm sure Arthur will be back. At least he's got her reading a book.
The priest has a thing for Peggy alright. Did his ears "prick up" when the sister told him "she seduced a married man?" I think he's Peggy's next boyfriend.
By the way, and this is WAY OUT THERE, but is it possible that the married man Peggy supposedly "seduced" was the sister's loser-husband? Is that maybe why Anita hates her so much? I don't know . . . when will Pete's paternity be revealed?
I found this episode very intriguing--but like many who have posted here I wish we could have seen the pitch to the AM Airlines people!
What I found interesting was that Shel had been fired and Duck announces it before the AA people come into the room.
I think we are meant to infer that Don's intuitive distrust when Duck first suggested that a friend on the inside was "exploring" the possibility of AA switching agencies was accurate.
In other words, Shel and Duck had collaborated/colluded on this idea for their own advancement--in Duck'sd case, he was eager to show SC that they had done the right thing in hiring him because right away he was able to bring in a big account--from Shel's perspective, holding out the promise of a new account might help him leverage
a new position for himself in the debacle following the crash. Heads had to roll at AA, and he probably planned on being the one to bring a fresh idea so that they could move forward.
But something about his eagerness did not sit well with the people at AA--the same as it did not ring true to Don-- moreover, as Roger pointed out in that episode, the there was already a bit of a buzz in the newspapers that SC was being considered by AA.
This kind of gossip, premature and inappropriate-- as one of the posters pointed out it was hghly unlikely that AA would choose such a small agency--placed AA in an unfavorable light.
It was Shel who got them into this position--before they had a chance to "mourn" their loss, they were shown as scrambling to re-fashion their image Favouring style over substance.
Undoubtedly, it was Duck who leaked the news that SC was in the running, but at AA it was Shel who had to be fired.
This week's episode showed Don's grasp of the realities of market--not only in the AA pitch, but also in the way he advised Bobbie about the realities of sponsorship for a TV show.
His suggestions were ingenious but they were firmly nbased in the realities of TV sponsorship and SC's relative lack of clout in those markets.
By the way, Bobbie's title for the TV show Grin and Barrett seems to connect her storyline to that of Peggy not to mention Betty and her problems managing kids!
Still born child indeed!!
DonnaC,
I agree completely than Don appears to have matured, or is trying. Don has no frame of reference for fatherhood or marriage. And I agree that Bobbie is a 'business' matter; she offers nothing to him like the carefree ethos of Midge or the sympathetic ear/similar background of Rachel, etc.
Ballrow: thanks for noting that it was Babylon Revisited. I couldn't read the title, but could see Fitzgerald's name. Wishful thinking on my part, I suppose. But the Babylon episode was one of my favorites. Nice reference to Days of Wine and Roses. Anyone else reminded of Revolutionary Road, by Richard Yates?
I'm new to this site (but not the show) so forgive me if I'm going over old territory: What was with Peggy carting around the vacuum cleaner between office and mom's house in episode 2 of this season (if I recall)?
Wryter1:
Where are you? I miss you!
Yeah, where's our resident former Mad Man????
Another great episode.
Watched twice last night.
Bobbie tossing her coat on the floor in front of Don..got it the second time I watched. Bobbie says she doesnt want him to get bored or something along those lines.
The kids were sent to brush their teeth and go to bed early at least twice in this episode. Poor little Bobby can't catch a break from his mother. She referred to him as a little liar last week. This week she just has it out for the poor kid.
Mr.Cooper seems to be losing it. Last week his character was shown eating with his hand shaking.
Hope the actor, Robert Morse, is ok. Maybe just appearing as a special guest star.
Anita, Peggy's sister is obvioulsy quite jealous of her. Their mother constantly refers to Peggy as being pretty. Father Gill asks her to give his folded paper with his sermon to Peggy. She tells their mother she is too easy on Peggy and seems to condone everything Peggys does. To get even Anita outs Pegg's illegitimate child to Father Gill.
After father Finn says his own version of grace, it cracked me up when Peggy's mom said , "and now are you going to say grace"?There is always the obligatory,"Bless us oh Lord". Cut to the Drapers. As Bing Crosby is playing in the background Polly is pouring the perfect Bloody Mary for her dad. You guys are right she's pretending to be a little grown up and doesn't know how, as witnessed in the office. The lack of reaction from Don when the booze glass falls from her hand is weird. She was passed out. Joan caught it.Vicky at the restaurant was a scream when she said "We were talking about the male head ". Double entendre ? I have mixed feelings about Betty. I totally get that she is acting like a spoiled child. She want's Don to handle every little thing. She ambushes him the minute he walks through the door. She's way too hard on those kids. However, Being on the flip side I get how frustrated she might be feeling. She did go to an Ivy League school after all. That was mentioned last season at Polly's birthday party. Can't remember where she went. She probably is feeling frustrated and unfullfilled. She probably wait's for the minute Don walks through that door just to talk to someone other than little kids all day. She does have her friends but it's not the same as having your own life. I hate her every time she throws one of her little fits, but there are other times I understand where she's coming from.In the confessional when Peg's sis confesses to taking something that wasn't hers, could it be Peg's baby? She said something about coins but I wonder if she now regrets, and resents having to do that for her. Someone asked about the toy Don throws .Was lost in Space on yet? Could that have been Robbie the Robot? When Don is talking to his son after that he recalls in vivid detail about the candy that tasted like violets, wrapped in a silver wrapper. I don't know why that got to me along with the rest of the conversation.Don telling Betsy that he wasn't half as good as Bobby shows he's kind of took his fathers beatings as if they were his fault.
ldraper:
The candy Don is referring to is Choward's. It comes in a purple wrapper and tastes like violets. They still sell it -- it's been around for over 100 years.
I love that Don is starting to reveal more of his background to Betty. I really hope this will bring them closer together. They still show signs of love for each other.
Betty went to Bryn Mawr, one of the "Seven Sisters" women's colleges.
For ldraper: The Draper's daughter is SALLY their dog is Polly. Hee hee!!!
Last nights episode was the best one this season.
I loved it when Betty pushed Don and even when Don pushed her back. Betty let Don know that the only reason that he's so easy with the kids is because he doesn't have to spend all day with them. Betty is finally speaking up for herself. Since Don seems to like strong independent women I think this change in Betty will make Don more interested in her. At least they are finally begining to open up to each other. In next weeks preview they showed Don making another confession to Betty.
Hi Ballrow--I thought the same thing about Ken. He seems to be awfully chummy with Roger, and based on his behavior in past episodes is definitely not shy about putting the make on women. Makes me wonder if his "services" on behalf of Roger might be the reason that his paycheck in last week's episode was so much higher than Harry's.
Not as riveting as episodes in the first season.
ldraper-- Its Perry Como singing 'Blue Room' not Bing Crosby.
I have to say; I thought I was a huge fan of this show but after reading these blogs I'm in doubt!!! Just wanted to say a big thanks to all of you for your wonderful insight into each and every episode; some I never even thought about or caught during the show!! It's MADdening I tell ya!! How much fun would that be to re-create the era down to the last last detail?!
Can't wait for the next one...!!!
Best episode so far this season.
I was intrigued by the whole preparation for the AA meeting especially when they came in to the office on Palm Sunday. Pete was in his country club shorts and Don brought Sally into work. Overall, Duck blew it. The firm broke ties with Mowhawk Airlines to go after AA. This event will probably haunt him and lead to more problems down the road.
I also like the children involvement in the show. I can understand why Don doesn't want to discipline his children after the way his father treated him.
Peggy, the priest (Collin Hanks, Tom Hanks son) and her sister storyline was interesting. I see a sibling rivalry between the two sisters. Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode.
Overall, great episode.
Although the way Peggy's sister outed her to the priest was passive aggressive at best and vindictive at worst, she has some valid points. Peggy is out leading a very glamourous life for a woman of that time and seems to be completely cold to the child and not in the slightest bit grateful for her sister's help. It's unnatural that she cares so little for her own child -- and he's already going to have a tough life without a father. I'm disappointed in Peggy for acting that way. If I were her sister, I'd be inclined to be angry at her, too.
Love this show! It's one of the only smart programs on TV and the writing is amazing. I want to work for Mad Men!
"Maybe her sister is jealous of Peggy because she is doing well and has a great job. However, Peggy needs to step up and recognize and take care of her son. I think the two will have a confrontation in the next episode."
k: I have an odd notion that Peggy's "sister" is not really her sister, but her mother and that history has repeated itself. That is, the "sister" got pregnant young, had a baby and their "mother," raised them as sisters. There is a pretty big age difference between the two women. Just a thought.
madfan: Given Peggy's denial of the baby from the start (first the pregnancy and then rejecting the infant in the hospital at the end of season one), it's no surprise that she rejects the child now. I see it as a coping mechanism.
I was watching "Three Sundays" again On Demand to see what I missed when my husband switched to the Oympics. I happen to catch Peggy's mother or sister calling for Gerard and Mikey to come to the table when the priest visited the 1st time. Just wondering if this is a nod to any MCR fans who watch Mad Men.
Uncle, I did mix up Polly and Sally, how funny. I rewatched the end with Bobby, You and I are both right , he said purple and silver package. As for Perry Como vs. Bing Crosby I wouldn't know from experience, but I watch this with closed captions so I don't miss anything, and on cc it said Bing Crosby. I haven't the true knowledge only what cc said.
Joan's conversation while standing over Sally is only the beginning of payback for Peggy turning a blind eye to the culprit who posted her license on the bulletin board. Keep watching....that battle is far from over....
Gail Klein and scfan,
Our resident Mad Man, wryter1, is celebrating his birthday today with lots of company. Ask him about it when he gets back to the blogs. He said to say Hi to all the Maddicts!
Is anyone else finding whole discussions gone? I've commented on several different threads and all of a sudden they are all gone. Or I'm just too dumb to find them again? The topics were very anti mad men and very bitter toward other bloggers. Maybe this is a way to keep this sight civil. But what the ? I love the show and love to talk to you all. But I feel like I wasted time even commenting on those other postings. Did they just disappear into thin air?
Never mind I'm an idiot, just couldn't remember where I posted stuff. I must say , though , that was one topic. This new format is so hard to navigate. Hard to remember what you posted where. Much better having started an open thread . THANKS. Let's do it every week .
I wouldn't mind seeing Duck sail out the door; he's borish and doesn't really add to the cast. with Roger back I'm not exactly certain of "The Duck's" role anyway.
It appears as if Don and Pete have reached some kind of unwritten truce, at least professional level, so seems logical Pete would move up to Ducks role..that is, if The Duckster waddles out the door of C-S.
OldFashioned - Revolutionary Road meets John Cheever in the Draper house. Throw in Douglas Sirk, too.
Though I am still a fan of MM (more or less), I do not feel Season Two is as riveting or interesting (or provocative) as Season One. For me, it's turning into a Sunday night soap opera and little else. Season One was far more inventive. I don't care for Bertram Cooper this season (in Season One he was kind of a whimsical character, a bit offbeat, etc. but this Season he seems like a crabby old man). Also, the character of Duck is just so boring and one dimensional. Why didn't they just name him Doug, instead?! Don't care for the insult comic's wife, either; her character is the typical pushy broad and frankly, she is no looker, that's for sure; she looks hard and cheap which she is. I much preferred when Season One focused on a smaller group of mor interesting characters that I thought would be developed more in Season Two: Joan, Pete, Harry, Ken, Midge (where did she go?), Rachel (Ditto?), etc. Also, Roger Sterling is nothing more than a rake, and a not very interesting one at that. And what happened to the FASCINATING story line of Draper/Whitman? I am sure someone will answer my post with the old line "Wait, it's early in the season and they are going to get to all of that." I don't think so. It's not that earl in the season any longer, either. We are heading to Episode 5 of what, 12 or 13? One more after next week and we're halfway through Season Two. These are just my opinions (please don't come unglued like the poster last night who all but had a conniption that I mentioned Colin Hanks playing the priest. Apparently, they found that comment too much to bear, why I don't know). Anyway, these are my own opinions and views on this season of Mad Men.
To Laurie B: I don't think Betty is a complainer. I think she is a highly educated and intelligent woman with a Bryn Mawr education who is stuck at home raising 2 kids and putting up with a husband whom she knows is cheating on her. She has also found over the years that Don's supposed strength which probably attracted her, is in some part detachment. It makes her mad - which it should.
That was a common scenario in the 50s and 60s, - women giving up careers or hope of a career to stay home and raise kids. Many of them were frustrated.
I love this show. My favorite scene in this episode was Bobby and Don - Bobby's "we need to get you a new Daddy line," was so poignant it took my breath away. That scene was so natural and unaffected, it's hard to believe that a small child could act that well.
Also loved Sally in this episode. Anyone notice how she started to clean up the mess her brother made when he spelled her drink? She took in all that happened between her parents, then grabbed napkins and started to clean up - never yelled at her brother - what a great sister! Loved Sally at the office, too - she was taking in all that the guys had to say about her father and I would be very surprised if she doesn't share some of that with Don.
There was so much in this episode to think about and so much revealed about all the characters. What a great cast! I hope they sweep the Emmys.
BTW, whoever said that Bach would not have been played in pre Vatican II Catholic churches is wrong. I was raised Catholic, sang in the choir for years and yes, we did play and sing Bach.
Flowerpower,
I think you're wrong about the priest. He is young, just back from Rome. Only the cream of the crop get sent to Rome to study - you have to be terribly smart and terribly serious about your vocation as a priest to make the cut.
He believes in his vocation and is acting as a priest should. His comments to Peggy's sister in the confessional were superb and giving the egg to Peggy was his way of letting her know that she should accept the child and the responsibility for him. Shouldering responsibility was a big theme of the old Catholic church - it was the way one redeemed one's self for misdeeds. Plus, the child needs his mother, not a bitter resentful aunt.
Catholic priests used to visit their parishioners all the time - they would drop in to say hello. And especially on the weekend when the housekeeper/cook was probably not working, people would invite the priest over for a meal and some socializing. We had 3 priests in my parish when I was a kid and it wasn't unusual for all 3 of them to be at different homes for dinner. Also, he's new to the parish, so he'd be doing even more visiting because he was getting to know everyone.
Chopin47,
I really think there's a "Thorn Birds" theme with the priest. There's a bit of sarcasm in his voice as he describes having been to Rome. His first prayer ahd to be repeated to sound spiritual. I really think he's missing something and looking for it in Betty.
I think that beautiful Betty is a total, self-centered neurotic. She barely tolerates her daughter and almost hates her little son. When she said she stayed home all day and was "outnumbered", I laughed out loud.
I admire Don's restraint at work, for he surely had several times after the AA firing and presentation to tell both Roger, Duck and even Mr. Cooper (perhaps more diplomatically), "I TOLD YOU SO!" It was horrible for them to throw Mohawk under the bus; make Don tell the client, and take such a huge chance in order to make their presentation to AA. And then lose out!
I must say, Don has a genius for the right touch. The Carousel, with its tip of the hat to nostalgia, and the new direction for AA, moving on with no apologies and shooting for the moon. He is truly "da guy!"
I haven't been hooked on a show like this since "Knots Landing", when I never missed an episode for 14 years. A few of the tie-in features remind me a lot of that quality show.
I do a real countdown for Sunday evenings and then hop right into the Talk Forum. What fun!
Was anyone turned on by Pete in his tennis outfit?
I think Pete isn't going to win the Mr. Muscles-Charles Atlas contest if he waltzes into the office in another "sporting" outfit again anytime soon. lol
chopin 47,
I meant to say Peggy in my post about "thorn birds" theme. Sorry, I have Betty on my brain.
jamm54:
I thought Lil' Petey looked cute in his tennis whites.
I'm actually starting to like him!
Most of my comments have already been covered. I did want to verify that priests at that time did drink, did smoke, and were frequently hosted for dinner in parishioners homes. They also (in my recollection) flirted a lot. Back in the 50s when this priest would have entered the seminary, families took great pride in having a son in the priesthood and pressured them to do so. As a result a lot of men did so rather reluctantly and went on to leave the priesthood down the road. I'm kind of hoping against a Thorn Birds redux, though, as I just find it fairly predictable. I think it would be more interesting if the priest instead helps Peggy find her way back to her son. I LOVE the poster's observation that maybe Peggy's sister is really her mother. That'd be a kicker.
In terms of music, I'm fairly certain that was Bing Crosby and I agree with Amicahomi that the ending music bugged me. As a Catholic from the MM era, that would not have been playing at the end of Easter Mass. No doubt Bach was played at church but the choice was wrong and I reacted to it immediately. On such a day, Ode to Joy would make sense but that would have not had the right tone for the dialog.
old fashioned--I loved your post! Here's an article on the episode I think everyone here might enjoy:
http://www.spunkybean.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=597&Itemid=55
anyone notice Betty is wearing slacks (pants trousers) this season no more june cleaver dresses and pearls
and rl1856 I think this has been covered but when bobbie puts her coat on the floor it is to cushion her knees so she can use oral sex to get her tv show
and the priest ... to me he looks disillusioned about the priesthood
I wonder if Father Gil (?) when he tells Peggy's sister : "You are stronger than your sister" - Maybe he knows more of the story from other confessions - parts of the story we don't know. I wonder whose decision it was to keep that baby and if they all think it's the bad back husband's!
i think the medical stuff needs to be tightened up:
parents then would not have taken a child to "the emergency room" for a minor burn.
if they felt they needed help, they would have called their own doctor, who would most likely have seen the child in his office the next day.
I have to concentrate not to think Peggy's sister is Peggy's mother! I have a 1985 tv so those two's hairdos look the same to me. I know it's Peggy's mother when I see kindness. Initially I did think it was her mother and her grandmother in the kitchen with her. When I was little you could really tell classes by how young, fit, energetic and "soigné" the women of the upper classes looked compared to the working class.