I wonder about Don. Although not in an extremely obvious way, he is a people pleaser. He doesn't really do what he wants to do but what others want him to do, in his job, at home, and socially. He hates letting anyone down for anything, even though he's sneaking around behind everyone's backs.

I also wonder if he doesn't fragment his personality a bit, due to trama of his childhood, and his idea of Don Drapper vs. the remains of Dick Whitman that are still with him. Perhaps he has a hard time rectifying the two, therefore seeing in clear veiw that his life in Manhattan directly effect his life at home.

Good question. I won't ever accept that he's happy with Betty. I think he needs a more independent, self-directed woman. On the other hand, the question is very much left open on the show. In real life, philandering does tend to be habitual. It usually does signify a weakness (if it's philandering and not a serious affair) and cannot be rationalized. Betty said to the shrink at the end of season 1, "Maybe I'm not enough. Or maybe that;s just who he is." As I said, I don't think she IS enough, but I think the show has to do a better job of making it clear whether the problem is him or her. I'm afraid that the answer may be the usual pscyho-babble, that until Draper comes to term with somebody about who he is, that he will always remain duplicitous, and that that duplicity plays itself out in the affairs. But at the same time, Draper wasn't more honest with Rachel because he was forced to be. Rachel showed an understanding that allowed Draper to be more honest with her. Certainly, one does get the sense that Draper is the one who should have been on the couch in season 1, though, and his therapy mainly came through his flashbacks to his childhood.

The point of the womanizing with Billie to me was about power, about a means to an end. He sold out (or acted the prostitute -- remember his mother) because it was professionally advantageous, at least in the short run. So it wasn't about a conquest, or about fulfilling a personal need. I certainly get the feeling it was the type of choice that made him loathe himself afterwards.

don's womanizing probably has nothing to do with his wife or the women he gets involved, his problem with deep within himself, his past, his own profound dissatisfication with a life that seemingly has everything - so he appears to be trying to feel good about himself and using women but none of this is working

does anyone else think "Salvatore" (not sure if that's the right name) who works in the Art Department is gay?

doreen

Yep, lots of us do, doreen. If you are a newbie, go back and look at some of the archived forums' posts, it's all over the place (speculation on Sal's sexuality) Welcome to the forums, if you're new. Haven't seen your name before so...enjoy.

About Sal, I kept reading references to his "gayness" but now that I've watched all the episodes (only once each though), I realize I haven't seen an overt action on his part to say so. The last episode where he had dinner with the salesman and the guy invited him up showed just how far in the closet you had to be in those days. Sal was so shocked the guy asked what he had to lose, that he left!

I was born in 1951 and most of my jr. high and high school gym teachers were gay. We never had a clue!

First, he's turned on by independent women, and that's the opposite of Betty.

Second, he seems to have this nihilist world view, and if you don't believe in anything, then what's the point of denying yourself of any pleasures.

Guyblur, you're right! He said so much to Midge's friends about the universe isn't paying any attention or something like that. Maybe the women have some deep meaning relating to the fact that his mother was a prostitute, a fact that no child should grow up knowing. I don't really go for convoluted plot lines but who am I?

I think that because DD is basically empty he seeks out women who complete him in some way or maybe validate him is a better word.In order to be seen as a serious executive on Madison Avenue he almost had to have the sort of wife Betty is beautiful educated refined and raised to be an accessory to her husband.At the same time he is attracted to Midge for her Free spirit which he does not possess...Billie for her power..and Rachel because he is the only woman (including his own mother) who accepted him for what he was.I don't think he is just some lusty bull who can "keep it in his pants".I think he is a chameleon and he takes from his conquests qualities he does not possess on his own.

I think Don is using his extra-marital relationships (excluding Bobbie) to get in touch with parts of himself that he normally compartmentalizes. He chose Betty to play a required role (trophy wife, mother) in his life as Don Draper, but deep down he is still Dick Whitman, bruised and shutdown from his terrible upbringing.

I think Don sees himself as a better person than Dick was. We think Dick lived with verbal abuse and children who do often believe the insults they are told about themselves. Remember Dick, the soldier wet himself when the bomb went off in Korea. As an audience we can accept all that as normal, but couple that with a few other things and we may see that Dick thought of himself as a coward and not a good person. The first thing our usually unruffled Don does when finding out about Adam is panic, Rachel calls him a coward, and he appears to be reverting to Dick type. Her rejection fit with how he expects to be treated if he were still Dick. Dick/ Don, I think, plays a role and is aware that he is not the person he pretends to be. Ironically, he probably is. Womanizing would follow with who he thinks Don should be. I think he enjoys it, don't get me wrong, but I also think he chose his wife because she would fit with Don's life.

Good point about his cowardice. I don't think he wet himself in Korea, it was gas and it exploded cuz the guy lit a cigarette, right?

From what I've read, it's not uncommon for men who had absent, negligent or abusive fathers (fathers they could not please, who rejected them) to feel the need to continually prove themselves as men, which is often done by sexual promiscuity with women. This can last far into adulthood. You will notice that men with "father issues" are often very uncomfortable with any mention (even casually) about their fathers, and it's more than just being bored with the topic ojust not wanting to talk about it at the moment. I've known several men like that. Both were unfaithful to their wives.

Don is beginning to reveal his past and thus his past is intergrating with the person he's becoming... the image and his past are melding into his present and its feeling a bit crowded, confusing and yet he's on overdrive as per normal...

he knows he could become another Roger and yet he sends poetry to old lovers in the mail and sneeks out at lunch to watch 'art house' French movies instead of getting to meetings on time... Betty is the ideal he's always believed he should aim for, live up to and be worthy of... Bobbie is the result of being a stud; and when women want you temptation is difficult to resist, especially when it(they) saunters up to you alone, in a resturant, with a silken smile and eyes made of imaginative dreaming offering themselves as token fantasy... jezz, give the guy a break! :)))

Don and women are about the spectrum of his internal morality play polarizing itno responsibility and temptation, the ying and yang of his struggle to fit in and prosper according to the ideals of the world he's grown up in (heard about all his life and was denied) all the while yearing to live and learn and find something commensurate with artistic fulfillment, the fantastic self-realization of creating and knowing... TO ME, that's why being "creative director" at an ad agency is the best, most navigable position in the corporate world outside of being a book publisher or something that Don could find...

P

Is Don the most moral man of the executives? Don seems to want to be a good husband and father, a good provider, as they said then. He tries to be true to his clients and didn't like jumping ship with Mohawk..although, he might have just seen it as bad business rather than a moral issue. He doesn't seem to see his extra women as interfering with his role as a good man. Is that because 'everyone else was doing it' or does he not see anything wrong it? What do you think?

I don't think he is up for sex anytime, anywhere, it does depend on the woman, and Bobbie is definitely not a choice he's made, it's a choice she's made. I don't think he takes his dalliances lightly, and I think that he is drawn to independent, powerful women, like a number of you have suggested. Yet, he still comes home to Betty because I guess the first thing on his agenda after becoming somewhat successful, was living the dream.

He didn't flinch about smoking a joint, hell, he switched dog tags in the war. He's not God fearing and therefore Sizzie I guess he doesn't see anything wrong with it, until he really falls head over heels and the woman too and then we'll have a BIG problem.

Other than Betty, the 3 women in Don's life all share the same characteristics:

Non blonde
Independent
Strong Willed
Outsiders trying to fit in

On the surface Don has achieved the post war American Dream. But he also knows his success is through deception- he has assumed another man's identity and at his core, is not who he represents himself to be.

Don identifies with all 3 women as outsiders, because that is how he sees himself. He really doesn't trust or believe the facade he has created and lives in fear that it will be torn away. He is drawn to the strength and independance of these women because he wants someone he can rely upon emotionally and escape from the false life he has created. His confessions to Rachel are telling-he wants someone he can unburden himself to. While he is not looking for a "mother" there are some aspects of a maternal relationship that he is looking for- support, emotional intimacy, comfort, which he finds lacking from Betty.

Betty is dependant on Don emotionally and financially. While she is preaty, here attraction to him is only skin deep and after 8yrs of marriage, is just not enough.

Don attempted to construct the life he dreamed of....only to realize it is not the life he wants.

All the primary characters on MM are attempting to transition through the same dilemma. Peggy...Betty...Anita....Joan....Roger...I could go on. The drama of their journeys keeps us tuning in week after week.

The actions of these characters cannot be questioned as long as we are mindful of Weiner's words....look at the desires of each of these men and women for a unadulterated view of their journey.

dd is an empty shell of a man who has reinvented himself and he has no moral obligations to anyone he can create his own rules and regulations ... he has no family tradition which usually gives people character

if he tells too much about his past (he did a bit with betty) he may fail at trying to create and remain the opposite of what he grew up with

when he meets these women he sleeps with well they don't care to know that much about him/his past and he doesn't have to share/give that part of himself

but you cannot run away forever

how many people do you know who have turned their back on their family's way of life and moved to a major city and started a whole new life ... I have met a few

This has been a good thread. I appreciate having a TV show that can generate such thoughtful comments from its viewers. I have mentioned this before and seen others write of it, but I like the Don and Dick names for this character. Don...as in the leader godfather type or a man who knows what he wants and how to get it and Dick as the...well not so happening guy. I think we saw Dick briefly step out of Don when he was threatened by little Peter...also a good name choice. And Don, who we can see might have a flawed foundation, is shown as a father role model for Peter. It all connects and wraps around, doesn't it.

maybe he has got a bit of his mom in him-- clearly he should/does have issues
mom a prostitute, never raised by her
dad- a violent, angry man
children need to be nurtured by their parents and i do believe that in the absence of a mom- there is a void
all boys need a positive paternal figure.. sets the tone for later years, i believe
nature vs. nurture-- a little bit of both

to follow up to my recent comment-- don is sooooooooooo good looking, lots of charisma, i think, makes sense he would be pursued and loves it

I love Don's womanizing! He's sexy as hell and should put some mileage on that fabulous body of his! When he was de-clawed during the first 2 episodes of this season, I chomped at the bit for him to hit the sheets with some woman other than his wife! When he finally rode Mrs. Unfunny Comic, I threw confetti!

If I wanted to see some dude play the hen-pecked, castrated "good husband," I'd watch "Father Knows Best" re-runs instead of "Mad Men!"

Don's a slut and he's a damn good one!

Visan ,between your comments and Dennis on this site, I have
been nonstop laughing. Y'all are too funny.
Yes, Don is more fun and interesting when he is screwing around,smoking and drinking to excess.
His marriage to Betty is a facade,although in some strange way I think he loves her but is not IN LOVE with her. I get the impression that Betty is sexually naive (She always has them make love with the lights turned off, haven't you noticed?)
A woman like Rachel,who has more substance and is able to captivate his heart and his intellect would be more suited to Don. Really miss seeing Don and Rachel together. They were hot. Even if Don did come clean about his background and revealed his true identity to Betty,I think she'd bolt and run.
Back then everything was built on superficial appearances.If Betty found out her husband was the child of a prostitute,I think she'd be revolted and ashamed. It makes me wonder how long a courtship they had and if they've ever had a truly intimate conversation. No man is an island,but she must of married one when she married Don. Talk about an empty shell of a marriage.
I hope Don finds some woman who is at least on par w/ Rachel.If they can't entice Maggie Siff to come back for an encore.I doubt he would get involved with anyone inside of the office. He's too cagey and protective of his "cover" to expose his vulnerable side to a woman that he works with at SC.
I hope this Bobbie story line plays out soon! If Don's going to cheat around,lets hope it's with someone who's his equal,not a hard bitten skank like Bobbie.

Well said, madmanfan4ever!

Thanks, Madmadfan4ever!

Dennis is a hoot, isn't he?

Visan:

I agree, Don is great to watch!

Don and Betty don't fit and I'd love to see them go their separate ways. Betty is sexually naive but she does love sex. She's also culturally illiterate and Don is a smart, creative man. But Betty is physically courageous and takes risks too. She's a jumper which isn't easy and that scene where she shoots the pigeons with the BB gun reminded me of Bonnie Parker. If Betty would just take a step for herself, be it an affair (I hope! I'm a blonde myself and am tired of seeing all the brunettes get action), or take after Don with her whip, or kick Bobbie's ass, I don't know, I think she, and we, would see she's a force to contend with.

Viva Don the 'ho!!

Wonder if Don Draper has a sex addiction? People with those issues use obsessing on sex as an escape from things they can't handle, which is usually everything.

And Don Draper is nothing if not an escape artist. I think the most dangerous phase of his emotional life is this new potential intimacy with his own wife.....