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Catholic miscue
I am addicted to the show and read in the NY TIMES MAGAZINE how Matthew has to have eveything accurate for the time in which is it set [as all great writers do]. I am a playwright/screenwriter myself and agree that it is so viatal to the work. Last night's episode in the confessional, Peggy's sister blessed herself by saying "In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". Catholics did not start using "Spirit" until 1965 after the Second Vatican Council. Before that ist was always "Holy Ghost". Don't get me wrong..I love this show, it is one of the best things on television EVER and now cancel all plans on Sunday night but when something is spotted like that in my work I would love to have it pointed out. If I am wrong, please correct me. Great work as always!











Popular media are clueless when it comes to religion - so clueless that they aren't even aware of their cluelessness. A show that is as slavish to detail as Mad Men is with regard to fashion, furnishings and other environmental details seems to have no sense of attention to such detail inside the walls of a church.
Here's another miscue. The music we hear from inside the church during the final scene in which Peggy speaks to Fr. Gill, and over the closing credits is "Sleepers Wake" by J.S. Bach. A church organist would never play that piece on Easter - it belongs in Advent.
What about the GREAT ADs of the sponsors of Mad Men? Don't you just love the way each ad is preceded by a factoid about the product featured in the ad that immediately follows? I think it is brilliant blending of fact, fiction and fantasy. Kudos to the sponsors and advertisers of Mad Men!
Okay .... I made my 1st Communion in 1962 and we definitely said "Holy Spirit." I have prayer cards from childhood which refer to "Holy Spirit." I don't think I heard the term "Holy Ghost" my entire life, though my mother did. Maybe Vatican II made it "official" to drop "Holy Ghost", but I never heard anyone use that term. Perhaps older people in older parishes used it more often.
As for the song, I've heard it used as a recessional at weddings, so I guess an organist could use it as he/she felt appropriate.
One thing I find amusing .... NOBODY sounds as though they are from Brooklyn! Peggy's accent is very mid-western and while her mother and sister have a "hard" way of speaking, it is definitely not Brooklyn. In fact, does anyone at SC sound like they are from New York? The Execs may be from all over the country, but surely the office girls are local. They all sound like they came from Idaho!
Great show.
Two other small details. The crucifix and other statues were covered at the end of the second episode. If I figured out the Sundays correctly, the scene in which Peggy returns to Church and holds her son was the Third Sunday in Lent. At that time the statues were only covered on Passion Sunday and Palm Sunday and not during the first four Sundays of Lent.
In the same scene, the priest is wearing rose colored vestments. Rose is only worn on the Third Sunday of Advent and the Fourth Sunday of Lent. Still even to think of the color of the vestments was impressive.
The portrayal of the young priest was impressive. I knew a number of priests ordained at the time who were very optimistic about the vision of Pope John XXIII and Council which opened in the Fall of 1962. The response of Peggy's mother when he offered his own version of grace was representative of the disconnect older Catholics had towards many of the young priests of that generation.
I grew up hearing "Spiritu Sancti" (Latin masses until Vatican II which was announced in 1959, ran from 1962-1965) so Ghost vs Spirit never really took hold with me. I heard both about equally. "Ghost" was the traditional translation - as much King James as Douay version of the Bible but Spirit more than holds its own. Maybe there were regional variations of use, like between soda and pop.
The "Three Sundays" observed in this episode were Passion Sunday, Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday. From wikipedia:
Prior to 1970, the last two weeks of Lent were known as Passiontide, which began on Passion Sunday. All statues (and in England paintings as well) in the church were veiled in purple. This was in accordance with the Passion Sunday Gospel (John 8:46-59) in which Jesus “hid himself” from the people. The veils were removed at the singing of the Gloria during the Easter Vigil. Following Vatican II, and in the Reformed Kalendar of 1970, Passiontide was discontinued. Passion Sunday is now the Fifth Sunday in Lent and religious images are no longer veiled. Traditionalist Catholics and Anglo-Catholics continue to observe Passiontide.
A Brooklyn Funeral Director happened to mention to me last yeat that the Catholic Church did not allow Catholics to be buried in the famous Green-Wood Cemetery until the late 80's or early 90's. Definitely not in the '60's. So Peggy's family friend would not have been buried there.
I am Roman Catholic, and was around in the 60's. Catholics used Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost in 1962.
I am Roman Catholic, and was around in the 60's. Catholics used Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost in 1962.
Actually, Catholics have been buried in Greenwood Cemetary almost from it's creation in 1835. Brigadier General James McLeer, hero of the Civil War and Spanish American War, is one example. He was buried there in the 20s. There are other Catholics who are buried there throughout the 1800s to modern times. There are tours of Greenwood. The monuments and mausoleums are amazing.
it would have been cool if peggy's family all had thick brooklyn accents
I agree with you Julien. I'd commented previously that while the writers pay close attention to detail they've really missed on some religious aspects...when it comes to Christianity. What respectable family, living in the suburbs, who are as worried about appearances as the Drapers, would not be affiliated with a religious organization? You know Betty would have the two children going to Sunday school or at least dressed up to attend Easter Services.
I am Catholic, was here before 1962 and yes, we did say Holy Spirit - I said that for my First Holy Communion several years before 1962. I think it depended on the region where you lived, but both terms were used. Many teachers made a point of using Holy Spirit because the "Ghost" was a word that scared some little kids.
It may have scared little kids but it also cracked them up - I was born in 1961 and I remember visiting my cousins and seeing a nightlight and all of us saying "Oh, no, it's the Holy Ghost" and laughing our heads off. My people were all from Indiana (even though I grew up in West Virginia and still live there) and we said Ghost up until about the time I started school in '68.
It may have scared little kids but it also cracked them up - I was born in 1961 and I remember visiting my cousins and seeing a nightlight and all of us saying "Oh, no, it's the Holy Ghost" and laughing our heads off. My people were all from Indiana (even though I grew up in West Virginia and still live there) and we said Ghost up until about the time I started school in '68. I still say "thee" and "thy" when saying the Our Father and Hail Mary, even though they tried to teach us "you" and "your" in school.