yeah.... i won't post them again though.... anyone really interested could search for that thread....

first, i do agree with you. Draper really seems to be getting the emasculation treatment from women on all sides right now, and there was definitely a lot of anger there.

However, for that moment, at least in my mind, Donald Draper stepped off the pedestel. Gregory Peck, indeed. He lowered himself. We know Draper is a serial cheater, but we didn't know he was capable of being a pig. And weren't they in a PUBLIC hallway??? how risky is THAT?

Mad Men episodes loop in my office, so i see them several times, each time coming to new conclusions about the things i see. it tends to make me look, in my posts, like sybill (no disrespect to those of you out there with multiple personalities).

while my feelings about all the other shocking things in Episode 4 (domestic violence, picking on bobby, sally getting drunk and passing out) have evolved into things other than shock, this point has not.

so i'm going to call it.

i think that shot could have been every bit as effective if they lost the one long shot where we see his arm and the evening dress, etc. the headshots of him "holding" her, of her reaction, would have been plenty cinematic and illustrative.

we didn't need the minute graphic details to get it, and we DON'T need to know he sits down to dinner next to his wife with those hands before visiting the gentlemen's room.

in that vein, it's been brought up several times whether this show could be more effective on HBO.

i am a HUGE fan of HBO and SHO series. i waited my whole life to see television that good, and was actually relieved that the characters on there could express themselves realistically.

however, as fond as i am of profanity and its endless ability to entertain us and help us express ourselves in unique ways, i really do agree with the guy who said Deadwood overdid it.

that was a beautiful (if way too brief), incredibly rich masterpiece, but in retrospect, the profanity itself really did overshadow the experience, and even threatened to become a cast member.

this show is unique. it's NOT a sopranos, or a six feet under or a weeds.

adding profanity or any other challenge to the censors wouldn't make Mad Men better, would NOT change the story. What makes this show incredible is the incredible writing, and lines you hear over and over in your mind, and will still remember ten years from now.

Matt Weiner and his stellar crew tell this story JUST FINE, he11, BETTER THAN FINE, without all that.

I don't know if she was trying to "Act" like a man. And in the light of what she told Peggy in ep 5 about remembering that "she could never be a man", I would say that Bobby was just being a shrewd business women who got a little too greedy, and let's remember (and please correct me if I'm wrong) Don had already had been intimate with her in the car hadn't he? So with all this and being a man myself who has often wanted to put a few females in place at the office, I never did because I hadn't slept with any of them. Don was able to do this because I believe it was almost like when a wolf puts a subordinate on their backs and bite their throats but doesn't kill but only warns them "Hey, remember who you are and where your place is!". And I don't agree that Deadwood overdid it. I think Deadwood just got too real for some people. A great show, and Weeds was only good up to season 3, since then its been a sex fest, and the it should be called "The Happy Hooker becomes a drug Dealer".

p59: Touche on Weeds. I almost barfed at the episode where the uncle teaches nephew to um, pleasure himself. That was utterly disgusting, I am NOT a prude either. Never watched an episode after that. ANYWAY...MM. Wonderful show. Love this site too, and hearing other's opinions. I miss Six Feet Under....cried like a baby at their series finale. These MM writers are the cat's meow. Bees knees. And all those other 50s /60s cool sayings...