Talk is a public forum where you can ask questions and share your commentary with fellow Mad Men fans.
Has anyone confirmed that La Notte is, finally, the Film Don watches at the matinee? La Notte was translated into French, La Nuit, but are we sure (even though he mentioned La Notte in Episode 5) that this is "the" film we've been dying to ascertain?
Bach in Three Sundays, "Sukiyaki" in Flight 1 - sometimes the use of music and pop songs in MM is historically or culturally accurate...and sometimes not. Anyone here fondly remember Top 40 radio of the early 60s? Find some tuneful clips on my blog: http://cantara.vox.com/library/posts/tags/mad+men
Growing up in the 1950s and 60s, I remember several behaviors regarding smoking that are not depicted accurately. Here are a few observations:
1)Smoking around Children: This was usually considering bad form except for the most diehard smokers. This was partly because children were considered not to have the constitution of an adult and partly becasue it added to the cool of being an adult. This was one of the reasons why teens wanted to smoke so much.
2) Smoking While Eating: This was usually not done until after the meal was over even in public places.
In the scene between Bobbi and Peggy (the day she was wearing the pink shirtwaist), Bobbi began to question Peggy to gain an understanding of the connection between her and Don.
"He's a decent man, isn't he? You wouldn't think he would be."
"I never expect him to be any other way than what he is."
Why do you think Bobbi is surprised that Don is 'decent?' What did he do that surprised Bobbi into re-categorizing him? Did she suddenly realize the image is different than the man she met? Is she in love with him? (She did give him that schoolgirl line, "I didn't think you'd call.")
I've been gone all week working and now that I get back, there are 347 comments for me to catch up on in order to join in conversation. It's easier to have a topic and if like it join in and comment. It's also fun to see if your topic was chosen as one of the "most popular" or "recommended". Does anyone else feel this way?
Bobbi Barrett-Tragedy or...?
Seems to me the Bobbi character has finally begun to set in the show. I wondered for a while if she might end up a sort of plot device to allow Don to be "caught" by Betty. That still may be the result, we'll see, but the character seems to be growing as Mad Men characters do and nearing a crossroads-She's falling in love with Don. I really think her defensive wariness with Peggy was a clear indication she has developed a real attachment, even if she maintains the air of this being a fun fling with a gorgeous hunk. For Don, I think he is living out the "cheap affair" Rachel accused him of wanting with her and that could lead to tragedy. For all her pose and poise, Bobbi is in crisis. She was probably already feeling trapped by advancing age when her younger dancer self latched on to Jimmy Barrett and she's getting no younger (though we may get a surprise from Jimmy when things blow up). We saw her harping continuously on Peggy's youth and Peggy sized up the woman's desperation immediately, "I'm not your competition". She has no security except as Jimmy's manager and if she lost that she's likely just a bit too ahead of her time to be able to find a similar position. To have Don reject or dismiss her could be the final straw. And for Don, she is really quite the perfect woman for Betty to learn about...Probably exactly the sort of woman Betty imagines he is taken up with. For him to be caught in or somehow confess to an affair with Bobbi would probably be the least dangerous exposure in his philandering career. Betty would be angry but pleased to find her competition so slight...Stern but forgiving. Just the temptations of Manhattan high life and a trashy seducteress...
I am waiting the arrival of my copy of the DVD and will soon be able to take a leisurely look at the first season. I already know how I react to the series/stories/characters, so I took time to see look at what Emmy singled out for recognition. Remember, these nominations are for work done in Season 1....
Let's see....
The series was recognized with nominations for:
Outstanding Main Title Design
Outstanding Drama-Series
Outstanding Casting
Outstanding Cinematography
The four episodes separated from Season 1 for recognition are:
"Smoke Gets in Your Eyes"
Outstanding Writing-Drama Series
Art Direction-Single Camera Series
Outstanding Costumes-Series
Outstanding Directing
"Shoot"
Outstanding Hairstyling-Single Camera Series
"The Hobo Code"
Outstanding Makeup (Non-Prosthetic)-Single Camera Series
"The Wheel"
Outstanding Writing-Drama Series
Jon Hamm was nominated for Best Actor-Drama; John Slattery was nominated as Best Supporting Actor-Drama; and Robert Morse was nominated for Outstanding Guest Actor -Drama Series.
None of our ladies were nominated in any category. Was this an oversight? Will the ladies' performances in Season 2 change that statistic? Which of you favorites in Season 1 were overlooked? Next year, what will the list look like? Do you think the total Mad Men nominations will be even higher next year?
I always like Joan and thought her very attractive. She at least LOOKS like a woman, and not some stick thin figure with no hips or bust. However, wasn't she a C cup last season and now she must be a Double D. If her dresses get any tighter there is going to be a wardrobe malfunction! Again, she is the most attractive of the lot. Betty is too ice princess cool; Rachel Menken needed an eyebrow waxing; Bobbie is trashy looking; and Peggy (again, don't want to offend Peggy fans, but that woman is just not attractive to me. She has no figure, her clothes are dull and drab, and that ponytail makes her look very unsophisticated, as though she should be running across a college campus, NOT working in a NYC ad agency; Don's new secretary is the only one who could give Joan a run for her money in the looks department. Joan was a knock out last season and still is, but if her hips and derriere - and her bustline - gets any bigger, she is going to be mistaken for the office Xerox Machine!
I see these cute photos and images some of you have with your posts- how did you do that?
Don asks Peggy if she knows what "they" (the doctors) at the hospital want, and she says no, she doesn't. Don tells her that she does, and then says to give it to them, so she can get out of there and move on. What does she need to do?
One of MM's best features is how it cariactures social conventions that were unconsciously acceptable in the 60's but are viewed as unacceptable now. We, of course, suffer from the same unconscious acceptance of practices that will be rejected in the future. Anyone dare to imagine that we know what 2040 will look like and predict current conventions that we now accept but society will have discarded by then?
I'm a Brian Krause fan.....it is my understanding that Brian Krause will be guest starring in an upcoming episode of MAD MEN....someone please confirm this for me!!!!!
I haven't seen this discussed before but it's been touched on in other threads this episode.
Remember the first episode when Peggy comes in and gives Don papers and touches his hand? WHY would she do that? Had she had an encounter with him and he got her a job there or something?
Please send your thoughts...
I really enjoyed the story lines last season dealing with the advertising business in the sixties. The strategies and corporate interactions were fascinating. However, this season is one big soap opera. "Will Betts sleep with the stable boy? Why can't Don get it up? Why can't the Campbells have children. The office manager get's engaged and Sterling laments. Peggy's sister confesses to the priest in an attempt to undermine Peggy." OMG, put this show on at 1PM with All My Children. I hope the producers turn this around or Mad Men will be an "also ran" at the Golden Globes.
What is up with Don not having much cash in his wallet? I only notice that because it came up more than once in the last episode. His life is becoming almost schizophrenic as he balances the various compartments, but I wonder if he has another secret we don't know about, and it is taking his cash on hand. For all we know about his past, he might have fathered a child, and is supporting it. How much spending cash would a man of his career and time have carried?
Was anyone here using the Twitter feeds before AMC had them shut down?
I like this show. I like it a lot, but Season 2 is a disappointment. Where this show has really shone is when the characters and the era they inhabit come together to tell us about what we were and by comparison illuminate what we've become. I am thinking of Don's introduction of "LSMFT" for the Lucky Strike campaign and the whole aura of cigarette smoking at that time, the shock over rumors of marital infedelity in the Draper's neighborhood, Betty's struggles to maintain sanity in a society that offers her few options, Sal's sad determination to remain safe in the closet, and Don Draper's masterful paean to the family at the Kodak Carousel presentation followed by his return to an empty house on the night before Thanksgiving. Those episodes were powerful.
Thus far, Season 2 has not offered anything comparable. Where are the early 1960s? Other than horseback riding references to Jackie Kennedy, the fact that one of the copywriters has an African-American girlfriend, and the number of scenes with TVs in them has increased, it is little changed from Season 1. Episode 5 ends in the middle of 1962. I am old enough to remember the summer of '62 when tensions between the US and the USSR were ratcheting up dramatically in preparation for the showdown in October. They were scary times compared to the sleepy '50s, but you would not know it from recent episodes of "Mad Men". These characters are still living in the year 1960, the dull part of it at that.
Don is told the fine is $150 yet tells him he'll call for a taxi and have an employee bring out the $500. Then the cop says sarcastically, "or maybe your wife has a friend". Also Don hears the heels clicking and seems almost surprised to see it's Peggy. What's up with Peggy's white gloves so late at night too, were gloves worn all the time like that?
At first, it seemed Don controlled his life, his decisions. Now, I'm not so sure that he ever did, and maybe most of his life has been accidental. What is Don's current state - intentional or just waiting for something accidental to propel things along?
what was the family of don draper told when he didn't return from korea?
Did anyone else notice the attention to detail-when Peggy walked past her TV (about 29-31 minutes in) it went out of tune? Great job by the set designers, directors!
Don likes women. He has the blonde Madonna-type Betty at home. She has her place in his heart, and on his arm in public.
He had Midge, who must have seemed as opposite to Betty's dependency as could be. A beautiful free spirit who offered fun but also could talk.
He and Bobbi remind me of old friends who share similar backgrounds, he sees her as a party girl who it is easy to forget with.
Then there is Rachel. She might be the one who the adult Don would have chosen as his bride had he not already have encumbered himself with the perfect blonde housewife. It is what he gets for trying to create a picture perfect life instead of waiting for it to happen in its own good time.
So, Don likes a variety of types of women. If he were married to Rachel, would he be faithful to her?
Peggy was missing for months and Don was eventually told she had TB but he kept looking until he found her in a mental ward. Why did he do this?? he said he doesn't even look at a secretary until she been there a month and he fired Peggy's first replacement without blinking. Not to mention, he seems to perpetually ignore Joan.
so why hunt down Peggy? usually not showing up for work is grounds to be fired. was he just being nosey? caring? [for once]
I submitted a video for the contest, it said that it was successfully submitted, but my video never showed up. Can anyone help
Hi - We noticed a number comments regarding the way the Talk forum works, and we've made some quick improvements to respond to the feedback. Our goal, per your feedback, was to make it easier for you to engage in one large discussion (rather than be segmented into many sub-conversations), as well as to easily find specific Talk topics posted by individual users. Here are the three things we've done. 1.) We've introduced a weekly "open thread" that is featured at the top of the Talk forum, where you can meet up with fellow fans and engage in wide-ranging talk about each week's episode. 2.) We've created a page that lists, minus clutter, every Talk topic. The link to this new page is at the top of the Talk page under the heading "View List of All Talk Topics." 3.) We've also created a link to a page listing all the episode open threads, under the heading "Open Threads for Each Episode." This link is also at the top of the Talk page.
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Is Pete and Trudy's marriage supposed to be a representative example of a typical WASP marriage in 1960s America?
They both seem very repressed. He seems at the very least to be apathetic towards her if not downright loath her. She, on the other hand, seems to take and accept his "abuse". Any thoughts?
Jane Siegel...is she just a flash in the pan, or do we think this might open up a storyline about Jews in the ad biz or anti-semitism?
Another viewer has pointed out that in the plot summaries it says that in the Three Sundays episode that as Peggy is leaving she sees three children in a room, including a blonde, blue eyed child who is with his cousins. Why are the writers pointing out the cousins plus details of the child's appearance? We all know about genetics but neither Pete nor Peggy have blonde hair and I'm not sure if either has blue eyes.
Also we were tricked about the Ossining location of Don & Betty's house. Isn't there a University in Stoney Brook? Did one of the writers go to school there or something?
Joan's figure, is the figure that I remember women having as a child. The only thing missing is I can't smell her Worth, or Channel. I love her character because she can play with the BIG BOYS, and remain ultra feminine. In those days to be feminine was an art form, and this actress has it down pat. Bravo
EPISODE 5 WAS ALL ABOUT THE WOMEN BEHIND THE MEN: Their various states of marriage, fidelity, motherhood, and fertility.
The women were the focus here. Who was married, single, engaged; which ones had children, were pregnant, or wanted to be pregnant; and lastly, who had cheated who did not. Curiously, every one of these women has a different story and not a single one is in the same boat as another.
Peggy: Single/Cheated with Pete/Recently gave birth/No children
Joan: Engaged/Cheated with Roger/no children
Rachel: Newlywed/Cheated with Don/?
Trudy: Married/No cheating/wants to be pregnant
Betty: Married/No Cheating/2 children
Bobby: Married/Cheated with Don (and others?)/No children
Anita: Married/No cheating/Pregnant/2 children
New Secretary: Single...
To me, this is the subject matter that stood out the most in the show.
Don is completely dependent on the contructs of marriage and family life to serve as an anchor for his impulsive and volatile relationships with other women, not to mention the fact it's a safe place to be emotionally checked out, taking advantage of a woman who truly loves him. He'd be a wreck without Betty. He's a little boy without a clue what he's doing with any of them. It's all pounce and circumstance (hahaha). Both Betty and Don remind me of chilldren playing house but she may be the stronger of the two, regardless of what Dr. Wayne told Don. Given the motivation (like actually catching slick Dick in a lie) Betty might kick him to the curb, which isn't far from the gutter, which seems to be where he's headed. Of course, there is that one small fact they have two kids and Don supports them all....
Hello to my fellow Maddicts out there! I am just now getting onto the computer, long day.
I haven't been able to read all of the comments yet, so I apologize if someone has already brought this up.
I had a thought go through my sleepy brain last night after the show.
What if Peggy's psychological problem is causing her to fantasize about her pregnancy, and Don visiting her in the hospital. There is a phenomenon called "hysterical pregnancy". A women will actally gain weight, have cravings, and experience labor type pain. What if she dreamed up the whole thing?
Something to think about...
Greetings, Maddicts. Here is my weekly review of this week's episode.
The theme was "This never happened." His relationship with Rachel? Never happened. Peggy in the hospital? Never happened. His accident? Never happened. Dick Whitman? Never happened. n I'm sure Ted Kennedy wishes he could apply the same to Chappaquiddick! Which, by the way, is what I thought was going to happen when Bobbie asked Don if he liked bridges.
Shocking moments for me: Anita is pregnant! The whole zipper scene with Freddy - ROTFLMAO! Don to Bobbie: "I don't feel a thing." Rachel in the restaurant and she's married to a total dweeb who I'm sure Daddy likes. Don called Peggy to bail him out. Don visiting Peggy in the hospital. Peggy calling him Don (you go, girl!).
I didn't like that Peggy stayed home with Bobbie vs. going to work. That really didn't make sense to me. I expected Bobbie to give her a makeover and I sense one coming soon as Peggy begins to assert herself. Bobbie had some very interesting lines: "Pick a job and then become the person who does it," and Don's response: "That's true." To Peggy: "You have to start living the life of the person you want to be." I think Bobbie and Joan have a lot in common when it comes to using the power of being a woman. I liked how Bobbie negotiates everything and she even said she did it once in a department store - this right after Rachel walked by. The contrast between Bobbie and Peggy was great - Bobbie thinks she's so smart and in charge yet Peggy is even more so. It's very similar to the dynamic between Peggy and Joan. Bobbie and Joan know how to be women - Peggy is trying to learn to be a man, which Bobbie said she can't do.
Why did Don join Bobbie after saying no to her? He mentioned a foreign film to her - "La Notte?" Big question - does Don know Peggy had a baby? Does he know it's Pete's? I'm guessing yes and yes. But, then again, it never happened.
Peggy is growing balls. I loved her line to Don in the car: "I don't want you treating me badly because I remind you of it." I was also very proud of her reminding Don about the $110. His response: "I guess when you try to forget something you forget everything." I'll bet he does.
I could say a lot about the Pete/Trudy/infertility story line. I'm an infertility survivor and I know firsthand what that is like. I think the portrayal is real. Men don't get how much of a woman's identity can be tied into wanting a baby. Pete simply doesn't see it. All he knew is that his sperm had superhuman powers and his manhood was secured. End of story. As far as him having to do something very private in a public place, all I can say is that he got to be alone and he got off - nothing about what Trudy will go through will be private nor pleasurable.
Speaking of which, great transition from Pete in the stall with a dirty magazine to Roger and the paddle ball! I loved Roger's line: "the story of relatively young love." I think he loved Joan in his Roger way. I give them credit for acknowledging it and not pretending that it never happened.
Mad Men is my favorite show, but STONY BROOK IS NOT ON THE OCEAN. This was a colossal error for a show that prides itself on accuracy. I accepted that Bobbi was drunk when asking if Don liked the Ocean and stating she had a place out in Stony Brook. But then to go on about the crashing surf. The Long Island Sound has no crashing surf, and it didn't have it in 1962 either. Someone fire the stylist...
That Peggy might make mistakes (some of them monumental), but you can see how quick she is to learn and turn things to her advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if by the 1970s she's running SC after all the old guard is dead from booze and ciggys!
Also, did anyone else catch Peggy's comments to Don in the car on the way back from the slammer? She told him, "I don't want you to think you can punish me now after this." Something along those lines...you can see she's got a LOT of insight into how Don, instead of being really grateful to her, might try to cut her out now that she's seen a really seedy incident in his life. I think she's smart enough not to abuse the discretion -- I think she will just be sure that Don is her mentor as she uses her natural talents to move up the advertising ladder. What a GREAT character she is! No wonder Bobbi was so in awe of her -- she probably doesn't see many women who know how to move in the world of men using moxie and innate intelligence (instead of the tried-and-true sex for favors).
Well at least we dont have to worry about Don's non-dodging Polara, maybe now he can get a "real" car, plenty of great suggestions around here in previous posts !
Is anybody going to make the trip to NYC to see her in this show? I bet she'll be great!
http://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=30282
I know there's been threads on "best lines" of Mad Men, but a line in last night's show reminded me just how witty/funny this show can be:
Ken: (to the new girl) Ken Kosgrove
Paul: Paul Kinsey, creative
Harry: Harry Crane... married...
I really laughed out loud at that one! Maybe I just love Harry's character, but in a show filled with serious stuff, its fun to find the humor.
Who else has got a funny line from Mad Men?
I know that todays children have a lot of advantages than I did or maybe our generation, I believe todays generation wants to grow up to fast and yes I acknowledge it is "harder" to survive by one self ,However personally I owned a house when I was 18 got married way to young(One divorce to prove it) However it is an observation that I believe todays generation is not prepared for "life" Children today I feel are way to much protected against anything and everything from watching a "too Violent Show"(Ok I do Agree that Tv is racier than yesterday but please) It appears to me every waking minute of a child's life is micro managed . However my real question is in the end after we have coddled, micro-managed and basically ran these kid lives are they really as prepared as we were ? I don't know I just see a pattern of young adults (21 plus still living at home maybe they are just smarter after all it saves \the rent etc) Or have we become (the older generation) so lax with the rules that the kids just stay(I just remember the suffocating rules that I was living under couldn't wait to leave) Or are the kids today not able to stand on there own 2 feet and still need mommy and Daddy .
Pete mentioned that Duck called Burt Peterson a mongoloid. Who is Burt Peterson? Was is a mistake? Was he supposed to say "Cooper?" Was this a client?
So Joan is getting married and we now have a hot new secretary in the office? Wonder how much story line she'll get, especially once Roger gets a bead on her.
Considering Don's new secretary had about 6 minutes of screen time total, I'm wondering if the title wasn't suppose to be taken literally and had nothing to do with her at all.
Could the title be referring to Don's New girl, Bobbi? His old girlfriend showing up at the restaurant certainly saw it that way.
Or maybe the new girl is Peggy. The reveal through flashback of how she, like Don once did, transformed herself into "the person she wanted to be". Which would make Bobbi's philosophy about picking a job and just becoming that person very interesting. And her advice to Peggy about not trying to act like a man if she wants respect, but to be a woman? Ironic on oh so many levels.
And how she interprets that advice into not allowing Don to forget what she did for him, when he obviously had.
I guess I'll have to watch it again in full context when the season is complete.
